Hey, guys. This is a Tivo thread. Can you please take the Sony discussion to a more appropriate thread? Thanks for your consideration.

Hey, guys. This is a Tivo thread. Can you please take the Sony discussion to a more appropriate thread? Thanks for your consideration.What are you?....the forum police? Five posts (out of 1,252) following a statement about the Sony units hardly qualifies as any kind of hijack...take some medication and relax...

How can you tell whether a 6412 is an original or a Phase III? I have a Series2 and a Series3, and the picture quality between the two is night and day for me.

If it's a "Phase III" unit, there will be a roman numeral "III" on the badging on the front of the unit.

This picture shows a Phase III unit:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Motorola_6412.JPG>

There are forums on avsforum.com that are dedicated to the 6412 and all its variations.

Jeff

I have the S3. I also have a Sony 42" plasma that is about 4 years old. It has component and DVI inputs. I also have a Panasonic tv in my bedroom ( rooms are back to back ), so I want to hook the S3 up to both tv's, and my dvd recorder.

The Panasonic has a HDMI input. I purchased a cable from monoprice that is a splitter...it takes the hdmi and splits it to a hdmi and a dvi. I know I get no sound from the dvi output, but when I install this cable, I loose the sound on my panasonic. Without the splitter cable, the sound is fine.

It sounds like this cable kills the sound in the hdmi output when it splits. Anyone have any experience with this? Any suggestions?

I have the S3. I also have a Sony 42" plasma that is about 4 years old. It has component and DVI inputs. I also have a Panasonic tv in my bedroom ( rooms are back to back ), so I want to hook the S3 up to both tv's.....I don't think it's possible to connect the S3 to two HDTVs simultaneously using the S3's outputs. I haven't been able to get it to work, and there's a couple of threads on TivoCommunity dot com about HDMI disabling the other outputs. My workaround is i use a Gefen 2x2 HDMI switcher/splitter, but both my TVs are HDCP compliant.

Is your old Sony Plasma's DVI input HDCP compliant? If not, you may not be able to use the S3's HDMI output to with the HDMI-to-DVI cable. If it is HDCP compliant, you could use an HDMI splitter similar to mine if you want to use HDMI. Another option would be to use a Component splitter or switcher to feed both TVs and forget about the hassles of HDMI and HDCP.

TiVoCommunity Series3 Forum (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=51)

I don't think it's possible to connect the S3 to two HDTVs simultaneously using the S3's outputs. I haven't been able to get it to work, and there's a couple of threads on TivoCommunity dot com about HDMI disabling the other outputs. My workaround is i use a Gefen 2x2 HDMI switcher/splitter, but both my TVs are HDCP compliant.

Is your old Sony Plasma's DVI input HDCP compliant? If not, you may not be able to use the S3's HDMI output to with the HDMI-to-DVI cable. If it is HDCP compliant, you could use an HDMI splitter similar to mine if you want to use HDMI. Another option would be to use a Component splitter or switcher to feed both TVs and forget about the hassles of HDMI and HDCP.

TiVoCommunity Series3 Forum (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=51)

I have it hooked up to the Sony and the Panasonic using the HDMI and the Component outputs and it is working great. My only issue is when I plug the HDMI cable adapter that goes to a HDMI and DVI output. When I do this, I lose the sounds on the HDMI. The Sony IS HDCP compliant...it isn't a real big deal. I have changed and just ran the S3 to the component input on the TV. I can make it work, but now I am watching movies on a S-video connection. We watch movies on the 60" or the Projector in the basement, so it isn't a big deal though.....

Thanks

Well the Charter guy came yesterday with 2 cable cards. He was 30 minutes late (beyond the 4 hour window) and I told him to just leave the cards and I would install them later. What luck, one of the 2 cards is bad. It appears to have all the proper authorizations as the other card, but it wont tune the digital channels. Tried multiple card refreshes with Charter "support" with no success. Ugh. But I really like the 1 working card!! :)

I have it hooked up to the Sony and the Panasonic using the HDMI and the Component outputs and it is working great. Wow, i get an HDCP error message if i try to use Component out to one TV while i have HDMI connected to the other TV. I'll have to play around with this and see if i can get it working.

My only issue is when I plug the HDMI cable adapter that goes to a HDMI and DVI output. When I do this, I lose the sounds on the HDMI. Ah, i think your problem is that DVI is video only and has no audio like HDMI does, so your HDMI-to-DVI adapter is disabling sound. Get a pair of RCA audio Y-splitters for your S3's audio output and connect a red & white audio cable alongside your DVI cable to feed sound to the Sony.

Ah, i think your problem is that DVI is video only and has no audio like HDMI does, so your HDMI-to-DVI adapter is disabling sound. Get a pair of RCA audio Y-splitters for your S3's audio output and connect a red & white audio cable alongside your DVI cable to feed sound to the Sony.[/QUOTE]

Mine worked when I originally set it up, so I don't know what I did, or didn't do, to make it work...Good luck.

I knew I had to run the red/white for the DVI, but somewhere in the splitter it must disable ALL sound...the sound for the HDMI to the Panasonic doesn't work either. I just went to the component outputs and red/white for the Sony and a straight run of the HDMI for the Panasonic and all is working fine.....

That 'problem' arises only WHEN the channel/show you're watching includes a protection flag/request, IIRC. Otherwise all your outputs should stay alive simultaneously.

Some channels have been reported as erronesouly including that flag when it shouldn'ldn't be, and vice versa!

I happened to have 2 HDTV's in my living room yesterday (while I play LCD panel roulette with Circuit City), and I had my Tivo hooked up to both - one via component and the other via HDMI. I didn't get any error messages, but I was watching network TV (FOX) at the time.

Does the series 3 tivo not allow satellite HD service? What others are out there besides comcast? Any with a good number of channels broadcasting in HD?

Does the series 3 tivo not allow satellite HD service?

The Series3 definitely does NOT work with satellite, but it does a great job with cable.

I think the only cable co in my area is comcast and i don't think they have a lot of HD channels.
DO the SD channels look decent on a large screen tv with the series 3?

The Tivo's tuners are very good. I have a Pioneer Elite PRO-1540HD plasma TV (60" screen), and I watch most of my content on the plasma through the Tivo. (I travel a lot and do a lot of time-shifting.)

SD is never going to be as good as HD, but I like my HD service from WoW cable (8 OTA channels + 2 HD versions of my premium channels + 11 new HD channels in the HD-Pak). It looks much better than some of the "HD-lite" channels that I have seen on friends' D* satellite feeds.

Bottom line, though: You're really paying for the Tivo's software and functionality (e.g., user-friendly interface, Season Passes, Tivo Suggestions) more than the tuners in the hardware. If you like the Tivo interface, the Series3 may be for you. If you are comfortable with other DVR interfaces, then that route may be for you. It's almost akin to Apple versus Windows. People line up in different camps.

Okay I see what youre saying. I love the Tivo functionality and my girl will kill me if I switched to another dvr. I want to keep the tivo, I'm just wondering how standard cable looks for those stations that don't come in in HD.

If you use the OTA antenna, can that be hooked right into the tivo so you can see the local stations in HD without having to switch sources or anything?

If you're already used to the Tivo interface, you might have a difficult time adjusting to a more generic DVR which may not have as many useful features (or features that are as well-implemented) as the Tivo.

Standard Definition (SD) channels actually look better through my Series3's dual tuners than through my older Series2's single tuner, but that's not surprising since the new hardware is much more expensive. (I keep the Series2 hooked up to the big-screen plasma via cable box, so I can still order PPV broadcasts of occasional college games on ESPN Full Court.)

The Series3 has coax-in connections for both antenna and cable, so you can watch OTA transmissions in HD via your antenna.

thats good to know. That's probably my biggest worry, just having bad looking standard stations versus awesome looking hd stations side by side.
Okay, now I wanna run out and buy one asap!
thanks for the help.

You will not regret it. The difference between the Series2 & Series3 is night and day.

No doubt I'll love it.

One other question for anyone who has comcast service...what do I need from them to make this all work?

Do I need their HD receiver or do the cable cards replace that?

Do I need to get their digital service to have their HD service or will their Expanded Basic work just as fine?

Do their HD channels cover the same local channels I would pick up with an antenna? Their site is hard to understand sometimes as to what I need to get the HD service and I don't want a sales rep telling me I need more than I really do.

The cable cards replace their HD RECV

good to know.

Ive heard about Comcast switching to SDV. What is that all about? Is it something to worry about with the S3?

Ive heard about Comcast switching to SDV. What is that all about? Is it something to worry about with the S3?If you have Comcast, yes. The S3 (or any device that uses CableCards) won't work properly with the S3, as SDV requires two-way communication between the STB and the cable infrastructure.

For anyone not aware of how SDV works, think of it as if your tuner is now located at the cable company head end rather than in your STB; you get the digital channel you've asked to receive, not everything sent down the line at once; it turns your STB into a remote control for the tuner for your pipe.

(Obviously it's a bit more complex than that, but that's a good shorthand.)

So what are our options when companies go to SDV and we still have the series 3?

You can still use the Series 3, you just can use the very few channels using SDV. This will not render the S3 obsolete. As I understand it, not many channels would be "assigned" to SDV within each cable system; certainly not all of them. Only for channels the cableco chooses to implement SDV for which in general should be a small subset of the total and for less popular ones. It is pointless to implement popular channels in SDV since the bandwidth saving goal is not there (assuming bandwidth savings is the prime driver). So if you are an S3 owner and happen to watch some of the less popular channels and those channels go SDV then you could be SOL but for those channels ONLY.

true but if I want to keep up with any new HD channels broadcasted I wouldn't be able to see them thru the S3, right?

You can still use the Series 3, you just can use the very few channels using SDV. This will not render the S3 obsolete. As I understand it, not many channels would be "assigned" to SDV within each cable system; certainly not all of them.
My guess would be the channels that have low viewership would be the ones that would be SDV'ed, wouldn't seem to make sense to do it with the network channels as those are the ones that get viewed the most. I could see Digital Classic and up HD channels being SDV'ed along with a lot of the little cablenets.

Okay, that helps a little, I just don't want stations disappearing left and right every time I turn on the TV.
At some point will all channels go to SDV?
I didn't understand what you said about
"I could see Digital Classic and up HD channels being SDV'ed along with a lot of the little cablenets."
So new HD stations that get added on in the future will be under SDV?

Okay, that helps a little, I just don't want stations disappearing left and right every time I turn on the TV.
At some point will all channels go to SDV?
I didn't understand what you said about
"I could see Digital Classic and up HD channels being SDV'ed along with a lot of the little cablenets."
So new HD stations that get added on in the future will be under SDV?
That's only a guess, I really have no idea what channels they would SDV, I'm only making logical guesses.

My understanding is that SDV works by reserving a set of channels for SDV, and then when a customer tries to tune in that channel a bi-directional communication is held between head-end and STB to negotiate what actual frequency that channel is on. Then the STB tunes to that frequency. If that channel was already available (perhaps because some other customer was already watching it) then the STB just tunes to that frequency; otherwise, the head-end allocates a frequency and starts broadcasting that channel on that frequency.

I suspect that even in the most extreme circumstances, there will always be a core set of at least 30 channels that won't ever go SDV; how many of them will be HD is an open question though -- perhaps as few as five or six. However, until we get there, there is no way to know.

Wouldn't this also mean that the cable companies would have to change out all those Motorola and Scientific Atlantic cable boxes?? or are they already capable of working under a SDV system??

My thinking is that a lot of the existing cable companies would not go to the expense of changing out their cable boxes. Maybe somebody new in an area would do this, but not an existing carrier.

Any thoughts?

Wouldn't this also mean that the cable companies would have to change out all those Motorola and Scientific Atlantic cable boxes?? or are they already capable of working under a SDV system??

My thinking is that a lot of the existing cable companies would not go to the expense of changing out their cable boxes. Maybe somebody new in an area would do this, but not an existing carrier.

Any thoughts?

Current cable boxes are already two way capable so can support the SDV concept.

It's a lot cheaper to swap out cable boxes than it is to try and figure out how to cram more HD signals down their existing pipes.

Given the lifespan of a cable box, the fact that cable companies get to charge customers for them, and the fact that even now the percentage of HD-capable STBs is perhaps 5% of those installed, it's the perfect time for cable companies to make the switch.

Wouldn't this also mean that the cable companies would have to change out all those Motorola and Scientific Atlantic cable boxes?? or are they already capable of working under a SDV system??Just think of SDV as On Demand on steroids. Instead of specific programs being On Demand, specific channels are On Demand. The principle is about the same. So the current cable company boxes that can support On Demand can support SDV.

So, if I understand this whole SDV thing correctly...

If cable companies switch to using SDV then people won't be able to watch and record those channels with an $800 S3?

I watched a friend change the channels on his Series 3 Tivo, and it seemed to take a long time to switch while surfing. It reminded me of my old Direct TV box 10 years ago. Is this typical on a Series 3, or did he have a setting turned on to display channel information etc. that can be turned off. Thanks for your time.

Can you use this tivo series 3 with DTV ? or do you have to use there DVR?

stix2u
The S3 is for cable TV only. No satellite capability.

Birdman.
My S3 switches pretty fast. Guess its all relative to what you're use to.

So, if I understand this whole SDV thing correctly... If cable companies switch to using SDV then people won't be able to watch and record those channels with an $800 S3?Well, more properly put (IMHO), the $800 S3 will be incapable of presenting those channels. Effectively, it's the same difference.

Anyone who has comcast...any idea when they might release their new comcast+tivo hd dvr? I definitely don't want to spend 650 on the S3 if it's only gonna be good for a few months to a year and not all channels will come thru.

Anyone who has comcast...any idea when they might release their new comcast+tivo hd dvr? I definitely don't want to spend 650 on the S3 if it's only gonna be good for a few months to a year and not all channels will come thru.

Check out http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=682350

Good forum. Makes me think about how much I'd miss having Tivo...the box and remote and menus. Do you think the S3 will ever get re-released with hardware to handle the SDV move?

I watched a friend change the channels on his Series 3 Tivo, and it seemed to take a long time to switch while surfing. It reminded me of my old Direct TV box 10 years ago. Is this typical on a Series 3, or did he have a setting turned on to display channel information etc. that can be turned off. Thanks for your time.

TiVo waits to see if the user is inputting more digits in the channel number. It goes much faster especially on lower numbered channels if the user presses ENTER after inputting the dhannel numbers.
CB

Good forum. Makes me think about how much I'd miss having Tivo...the box and remote and menus. Do you think the S3 will ever get re-released with hardware to handle the SDV move?It's not clear how that would work. It might require new industry regulations to bring that about. That's because current regulations only cover externalizing proprietary decryption. There is nothing in the current regultions that talks about externalizing proprietary two-way communications.

TIVO SUCKS

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/01/30/dvicos-tivx-5010-p-hdtv-recorder-everything-but-the-disk/

....didn't know study hall started this early.

....didn't know study hall started this early.


Actual content of the post notwithstanding, the item linked to was a bit intriguing.....

Randy

TiVo waits to see if the user is inputting more digits in the channel number. It goes much faster especially on lower numbered channels if the user presses ENTER after inputting the dhannel numbers.
CB

Hey CB:

Thanks for the reply. However, I was talking about using the channel rocker switch, not inputting the numbers. For example: I hit the rocker switch and wait "one-potato, two-potato, three before the channel actually shows up on the TV. This seemed quite annoying when all we wanted to do was surf the channels to see what was on. Again, it reminded me of the amount of time it took the old Direct TV box to load the channel. Is this typical with a TiVo box?

Actual content of the post notwithstanding, the item linked to was a bit intriguing.....

Randy

It'd be much more interesting if there were CableCARDs in there. Otherwise, it's just a generic small form factor HTPC/streamer. If it can't tune encrypted content, why bother ?

Hey CB:

Thanks for the reply. However, I was talking about using the channel rocker switch, not inputting the numbers. For example: I hit the rocker switch and wait "one-potato, two-potato, three before the channel actually shows up on the TV. This seemed quite annoying when all we wanted to do was surf the channels to see what was on. Again, it reminded me of the amount of time it took the old Direct TV box to load the channel. Is this typical with a TiVo box?

What is this 'channel surfing' you speak of? Would it refer, perhaps, tot hat prehistoric behaviour that is being quickly weeded out through the spread of GOOD DVRs like TiVo?

Know your Now playing List. Love your Now Playing List. The Channel rocker switch is GREAT as a Page Up/Down key for TiVo menus/lists. Only.

It'd be much more interesting if there were CableCARDs in there. Otherwise, it's just a generic small form factor HTPC/streamer. If it can't tune encrypted content, why bother ?

True enough...but for those that are doing strictly ATSC stuff (like a few folks on this forum), it might be interesting. After what TWC pulled here today, I'm probably off the cable bandwagon for the foreseeable future. I just wish I had a better internet alternative than them so I could keep them from getting any of my money...

Randy

TIVO SUCKS

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/01/30/dvicos-tivx-5010-p-hdtv-recorder-everything-but-the-disk/
DFTTs

What is this 'channel surfing' you speak of? Would it refer, perhaps, tot hat prehistoric behaviour that is being quickly weeded out through the spread of GOOD DVRs like TiVo?

Know your Now playing List. Love your Now Playing List. The Channel rocker switch is GREAT as a Page Up/Down key for TiVo menus/lists. Only.Ashu...you crack me up. :D

My thinking is that a lot of the existing cable companies would not go to the expense of changing out their cable boxes. Maybe somebody new in an area would do this, but not an existing carrier.

Any thoughts?

When Time Warner did a test of SDV in 2005, they just downloaded new firmware to the existing STBs.

Just heard something about Tivo downloading movies from Netflix.
Have you guys heard anything about this?

Just heard something about Tivo downloading movies from Netflix.
Have you guys heard anything about this?

You're likely referring to a rumor that was floating around quite a bit over the past year or so. TiVo and Netflix were working on something together, but never announced anything.

However, TiVo DID just announced a deal with Amazon for TV/movie downloads of the Amazon.com "Unbox" service. It's already in beta. LINKY (http://www.tivo.com/cms_static/press_136.html)

A nice short description of the service from that PR sheet :

To activate the service, subscribers will simply log on to Amazon.com and follow a few simple steps to establish a link between their broadband connected TiVo Series2™ or Series3™ box and their Amazon account. Once the initial set up is complete, eligible movies or television shows from Amazon Unbox can be downloaded directly to the customer's TiVo box. After the movie has been downloaded, the title will automatically appear in the subscriber's TiVo "Now Playing" list with all of their other recorded shows, easily viewed with just a click of the TiVo remote.

Customers can purchase television episodes for $1.99, purchase most movies for between $9.99 and $14.99, or rent movies starting at $1.99. As an added bonus, all purchased videos are automatically stored in each customer's "Your Media Library" at Amazon.com for future access and download.


To sign up for the service, you can visit the TiVo website HERE (http://www.tivo.com/4.9.24.asp)


Nice deal for TiVo.

After what TWC pulled here today, I'm probably off the cable bandwagon for the foreseeable future.

I did a search for posts by you, but I don't see any that mention TWC. If you did mention the incident, could you give me the post # or a link if it's elsewhere on the boards?

If you didn't, could you clarify? Does it concern SDV?

I did a search for posts by you, but I don't see any that mention TWC. If you did mention the incident, could you give me the post # or a link if it's elsewhere on the boards?

If you didn't, could you clarify? Does it concern SDV?

Sorry about that...I mentioned something about it in the local Dallas area HD forum and on another board, but didn't intend to bore people in this thread with it. Anyway, they established a new 'HD Tier' and moved ESPN-HD, InHD, HDNet, and UniversalHD into it, without any notice. At least none that I could find. Yesterday my HDNet was gone, showing me unauthorized for it. The other three were still there, for now, although I heard reports of other people losing some of the other channels, as well. It is likely just a matter of time. They want another $5/month for that tier. I really not that mad about the money (although I'm not crazy about the idea), but I am pretty pissed about getting blind-sided by this. I have asked in some more local forums if anybody got notice on this, but so far haven't heard back from anyone that did. I'm likely headed for a vip622 and Dish.

I apologize for the thread-jack, particularly since this is likely a local issue. I just thought I'd answer here rather than PM, just in case any others were wondering...

Randy

Thanks for clarifying, Randy.

And not to drag it out any further, but Dallas/Ft. Worth is one of the areas that had the Comcast-to-TWC switchover, correct?

FYI, software update 8.1 finally is being released. See the Tivo S3 forum for details. In terms of new features it's mostly simply catching up to the latest S2 8.1 software but of course still no TTG, MRV, eSATA. There are bug fixes though which could be the most compelling/useful part of the release for some. Notably:
* mpeg2 only audio bug fixed - previously S3 couldn't handle mpeg2 audio but now it can.
* Reboot loop bug supposedly fixed. I ran into this problem a few times and it used to take some special steps to get it out of reboot loop which supposedly should no longer be necessary.

FYI, software update 8.1 finally is being released. See the Tivo S3 forum for details. In terms of new features it's mostly simply catching up to the latest S2 8.1 software but of course still no TTG, MRV, eSATA. There are bug fixes though which could be the most compelling/useful part of the release for some. Notably:
* mpeg2 only audio bug fixed - previously S3 couldn't handle mpeg2 audio but now it can.
* Reboot loop bug supposedly fixed. I ran into this problem a few times and it used to take some special steps to get it out of reboot loop which supposedly should no longer be necessary.

YIPEE ! ! !

But I'll believe it when I see it. CB

This may not be the TiVo's fault but I hear an intermittent static noise through my Atlantic Technology THX speakers when my TiVo is the source feeding my Denon DD receiver via its Toslink optical output into my Denon receiver. It occurs on the center, left, and right channel speakers. This static noise is not heard when I listen to the same TV programming from the optical output of my Sony A2000 HDTV's optical output into the Denon receiver. The static varies from program to program but is almost always there when the TiVo's tuner is the source but not the Sony's tuner when it is the source. Has anyone else heard this with their TiVo Series 3?

YIPEE ! ! !

But I'll believe it when I see it. CB

It's Official, so sayeth TiVoPony. (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=340622)

Slow roll-out over the course of the week, with monitoring by TiVo to make sure they haven't broken anything, and then an all-S3 rollout. Everyone should have it within a week or so.

I am in the process of buying an S3 and have one question. My set-up is currently for OTA only and I receive stations from two areas -- Washington DC and Baltimore. Will I be able to receive program data for all of the OTA channels and subchannels from both areas?

thanks in advance for any help!

Hoopnoop,

Yes. Part of the setup routine causes the S3 to dial in to Tivo to load the program guide information.

Well, that's how its suppose to work. My downloaded program guide that pertains to the locals are often missing certain channels.

Hoopnoop, I'm in your neck of the woods, and when I initially ran a chanenl setup/scan on a clear day, I picked up wee bits of a couple of Baltimore channels (WMPT) even with my tiny indoor antenna, and the S3 was happy to give me precise channel listings for DC AND Baltimore channels. Rest assured.

Now PBS (particularly DC's WETA) sends out ompletely nonsensical and generally inaccurate Guide/time details to everyone - Tribune Media (TiVo's source) as well as their own PSIP info - so don't blame the S3 for showing (more than) occasionally inaccurate times/show details!

Thanks Jim and Ashu! I'll let you know how the guide works. Also, I think I read in this forum that the dual tuner can work for OTA only. So, hopefully that's the case.

Yeah - dual OTA tuner (internally split), and dual clear-QAM cable, as well as dual encrypted QAM (using CableCards to decrypt) and of course dual NTSC. Or any combination therof, upto two channels tuned/recorded at a time.

You'll love it!

HoopNoop - You will have channel listings for stations you didn't even know existed. If anything, TiVo's guided setup errs on the side of way too many stations....far and away out of your market area. It found about 500+ stations for me, and I only use about 50 of them.

HoopNoop - You will have channel listings for stations you didn't even know existed. If anything, TiVo's guided setup errs on the side of way too many stations....far and away out of your market area. It found about 500+ stations for me, and I only use about 50 of them.

I hope you are able to hide from the guide the 450 stations you don't use!

I hope you are able to hide from the guide the 450 stations you don't use!

of course. I did buy the S3 and I love it. I dumped my motorola 6416 III dvr pretty quickly.

I hope you are able to hide from the guide the 450 stations you don't use!Oh yeah....a bit tedious, but, yes, you just disable them from your program guide.

Thanks for clarifying, Randy.

And not to drag it out any further, but Dallas/Ft. Worth is one of the areas that had the Comcast-to-TWC switchover, correct?

Yes, That is correct.

My apologies, bidger...I totally missed your question. And since I did mention the isues in this thread, I should update that HDNet came back. I'm guessing they were doing something related to breaking the 4 channels into their own tier and hosed something up temporarily. The rep I spoke with must have been mistaken, and they are apparently not just shutting us off without notice. What I had heard prior to this is that you won't get hit with the new tier charge until you make a change to your account...such as adding cable cards... :) Thanks to Macanudo for answering the question....

Randy

So still no remedy for the Missing Channels bug nor the Partial Recordings bug?

So still no remedy for the Missing Channels bug nor the Partial Recordings bug?

8.1 is currently rolling out, and should address those bugs (among others), and add some functionality, though not total functionality quite yet.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=340622


Jerry

Well, I bought my S3 on Ebay and should be receiving it today. So, hopefully everything will go smooth with the set-up! I have one question -- the previous owner if this box had a 3 year month to month subscription which is past the cancellation period. Can his subscription be somehow be transferred to me or can I otherwise get access to the Tivo service through him?

Someone sold an S3 with a 3-year prepay? Strange!

They should call TiVo and inform them of the sale (although technically, I dunno if a subscribed TiVo can be transferred - I guess it can). If/when MRV/TTG (transfers) are enabled, you WILL need to have the S3 on YOUR account for it to send/receive shows to other TiVos or PCs etc. Having it on someone else's account will be a Major-General Pain.

Hope you know the 3 year prepay got cheaper. (Yesterday) I think. A couple days ago. With such an expensive piece of tech gadgetry, I usually prefer to buy new and subscribe it myself.

Hey- my S3 says "Updating Cablecard 1- Cablecard firmware upgrade in progress"- further explanation (these are Tivo screens) say that this is a cable company upgrade that should not take more than 40 minutes- well it's been about 30 hours- I have unplugged the Tivo and that did not help and have called Comcast 3 times- they say someone will call me back- does anyone know what gives? Thanks.

If they were TiVo screens you saw, maybe your best bet is to call them.

I called Tivo- they said it's a cable card prob- Comcast is coming out tomorrow- I'll keep you posted (the Tivo rep said Comcast should be able to just send a signal to the cable cards, but I'll see what the tech does when he's here tomorrow).

Hope you know the 3 year prepay got cheaper.

Link?

still has the 299 special as far as I can see - the same as a month or so ago...

Just got 8.1 today, takes about 20-30 mins, so be sure to do it before you're scheduled to record anything.

OK, I got my Tivo S3 set up and am currently using it for OTA only. It was a very easy setup and is very user-friendly. I also have the Sony HDD500 so this definitely is an improvement in a number of areas. Overall, I'm very happy with my purchase!

So, I have a couple of questions relating to the hard drive and available space:

1. Is there anyway to see how much space is left in your hard drive or how much space a particular show or series of shows takes up? This was something that I used in my Sony unit to be able to manage the hard drive and basically see how much space was left and which shows tended to take up the most space.

2. If the answer to #1 is no (which I think is the case) then how do you best manage your hard drive space? It would seem that the S3 would then almost always be near full and the question is then which shows it drops when it records another show. So, I'm assuming that recording setup is the key here -- do you keep a show till you delete it, do you give it 3 thumbs up, etc?

3. Does an SD show take up more space when you have your video fixed to 1080i? In other words, if I record an SD program but fixed to 1080i does it take more space then if I record it in native mode? One thing I noticed with my Sony is that an SD program definitely takes up more space if it is recorded on an HD channel. It would be interesting to know if the same is true of the Tivo S3.

Anyway, I appreciate in advance any answers to the above questions

OK, I got my Tivo S3 set up and am currently using it for OTA only. It was a very easy setup and is very user-friendly. I also have the Sony HDD500 so this definitely is an improvement in a number of areas. Overall, I'm very happy with my purchase!

So, I have a couple of questions relating to the hard drive and available space:

1. Is there anyway to see how much space is left in your hard drive or how much space a particular show or series of shows takes up? This was something that I used in my Sony unit to be able to manage the hard drive and basically see how much space was left and which shows tended to take up the most space.

2. If the answer to #1 is no (which I think is the case) then how do you best manage your hard drive space? It would seem that the S3 would then almost always be near full and the question is then which shows it drops when it records another show. So, I'm assuming that recording setup is the key here -- do you keep a show till you delete it, do you give it 3 thumbs up, etc?

3. Does an SD show take up more space when you have your video fixed to 1080i? In other words, if I record an SD program but fixed to 1080i does it take more space then if I record it in native mode? One thing I noticed with my Sony is that an SD program definitely takes up more space if it is recorded on an HD channel. It would be interesting to know if the same is true of the Tivo S3.

Anyway, I appreciate in advance any answers to the above questions

1. Tivo just released (or is releasing software version 8.1 for the S3's. I think it includes a feature that shows you how much space a program is using (you have to select the program from the now playing list, and then press the "Info" button on the remote). You should see a percentage for disk space. (This is the way that my S2 works - and I think the S3 should be the same now that the new softare is out.)

2. The colored dots next to the shows in the Now Playing list tell you if they are going to be kept. Green means that it will be kept until you delete, blank means that the show was recently recorded, yellow means you have about 2 days before it is in danger of being deleted, and yellow with an exclamation mark means that it will be deleted if space is needed. The oldest programs are deleted first when space is needed. You can control this by going into the Now Playing list and choosing programs, then pick the "Keep Until" option to adjust them. You can also set these options when you set up a recording.

3. SD shows take up space according to your Recording Options. There is a Best, High, Medium, and Basic setting for SD programs. These affect how they are compressed. Your output format doesn't affect the amount of space they use. For digital HD, the stream is saved straight to the Hard Drive, so it is in its native format.

OK, I got my Tivo S3 set up and am currently using it for OTA only. It was a very easy setup and is very user-friendly. I also have the Sony HDD500 so this definitely is an improvement in a number of areas. Overall, I'm very happy with my purchase!

So, I have a couple of questions relating to the hard drive and available space:

1. Is there anyway to see how much space is left in your hard drive or how much space a particular show or series of shows takes up? This was something that I used in my Sony unit to be able to manage the hard drive and basically see how much space was left and which shows tended to take up the most space.

2. If the answer to #1 is no (which I think is the case) then how do you best manage your hard drive space? It would seem that the S3 would then almost always be near full and the question is then which shows it drops when it records another show. So, I'm assuming that recording setup is the key here -- do you keep a show till you delete it, do you give it 3 thumbs up, etc?

3. Does an SD show take up more space when you have your video fixed to 1080i? In other words, if I record an SD program but fixed to 1080i does it take more space then if I record it in native mode? One thing I noticed with my Sony is that an SD program definitely takes up more space if it is recorded on an HD channel. It would be interesting to know if the same is true of the Tivo S3.

Anyway, I appreciate in advance any answers to the above questions

Congrats on the S3 purchase!

1. As the poster above indicated, selecting a program and hitting the "info" button will bring up a screen showing how much disk space that program consumes. However, there is no such indicator for how much total free space you have left on the unit. TiVo's persistent refusal to include a "free space indicator" has been curious over the years.

2. With 8.1, your Now Playing List will include a "Recently Deleted" folder. Items that are in this folder have been marked for deletion, but are not permanently deleted from the disk. So, in a way, it serves as a rough-estimate free space indicator. When the S3 needs space to record something new, it'll whack something from the Recently Deleted folder before having to whack one of your real recordings. The TiVo will also attempt to delete and Suggestions you may have in your Now Playing List before whacking any of your real recordings. Thumbs have no impact on when a show is deleted, they only serve as a data point for the Suggestions recording algorithm. If you have a show you really want to save, mark it "Save Until I Delete".

3. Depends upon if the SD show was recorded from an analog or digital SD channel. If it was digital SD channel, you have no control over the file size, as the recording merely duplicates the digital bitstream from the channel directly to disk. If it was an analog SD channel, you can select the recording quality (higher quality resulting in larger file sizes). Digital HD channels will be digital bitstream duplicates as well, but at the higher 1080i or 720 data rates. However, don't confuse recording quality with the output display resolution, as they're not related at all. The recordings sizes are specific to the channel you're recording them from (as I've just described ahove). On playback, those recordings are scaled by the video section of the S3 to whatever display resolution (720p/1080i) you've selected.

You already have all the answers. Congrats - you'll love the experience and wonder how you did without a TiVo :)

I ALSO wish TiVo would finally agree to add a FSI, but considering how inaccurate it would be for their desired 'hours of recording left' functionality, seein as how EVERY channel/provider compresses/rateshapes digital channels & iundividual shows differently, I think I can see why they refuse to implement what, in their eyes, would be an imperfect feature.

A % free indicator would be enough for most people (including me) who are savvy enough to know 3% free could mean hours of SD recording at Medium, but almost not even one hour-long HD show!

Link?

It is confusing, and I haven't bothered reading it yet (all old TiVos on 6.95 pm, and new S3 has a newly tansferred Lifetime) ... but here's the discussion about the pricing changes (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4895382#post4895382)

<edit> In fact, here's TiVo's page listing the possibilities (http://www.tivo.com/2.0.plans.step.1.asp). So I was wrong, prepays didn't change, just the month-to-month was made a bit more 'reasonable'.

Have Comcast change your cablecard(s).

I also have a Sony HDD500 and a Tivo Series 3 (which replaced an old Motorola 6412). I have no plans to get rid of the Sony. It may not have some of the features the S3 has (like dual tuners), but it has been working fine for me for almost 2 years.

Sure wish there were some good hacks out there for the SONY, like using the USB to connect to a PC or external drive to download some of the recorded programs. TiVotogo is supposed to be around the corner for the S3, but I have some programs/documentaries recorded on my SONY that would like to save permanently to DVD.

Thanks for all the replies regarding managing your hard disk -- very informative! The one additional thing that I noticed in reviewing information is that the recordings are prioritized according to the order that you entered them with the first recordings having the highest priority. But I'm not sure what this means practically. Assuming that a program is not otherwise protected, how does the Tivo choose which ones to delete first?

Hit 1 and 2 on the remote for the various NPL display modes for recorded shows. They're either alphabetic or by date, and either folder-grouped or not (1 and 2 respectively)

NOTHING to do with priority, although older shows, not KUIDed, WILL of course be deleted first and will also show up at the bottom in a chrono display.

8.1 is currently rolling out, and should address those bugs (among others), and add some functionality, though not total functionality quite yet.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=340622


Jerry

Hi...I received 8.1 the other day, but I'm still getting the black screen and no sound often (3 times in 10 minutes when I spot-checked a recording last night)...it lasts from about 3 to 15 seconds or so, and it even occurs in those pre-loaded "tour your tivo" videos...has anyone else seen this problem after 8.1? I was hoping 8.1 was going to fix it!

So, how do you get the 8.1 update? I haven't received it yet and wasn't sure if they simply send it or if I need to do something to get it.

TiVo controls who gets the release, and there's very little you can do about it.

If your S3 is on the list, the next time it connects to the TiVo servers it'll get the download. You can speed up the process a little bit by manually forcing a network connect, and that will force the download right then and there. Only if you're on the list, though.

If your S3 isn't on the list, you'll simply have to wait. You'll get it, sooner rather than later. I believe TiVo said the roll-out should be complete fairly soon.

The 8.1 update didn't fix my "bug", where recordings would fail because "signal was unavailable on cable in" on 2 specific channels - 782 (WWMT-DT) and 783 (WZZM-DT). It seems to happen if the tuner is already on one of these channels, and a recording is initiated.

Actually the 8.1 update changed things a bit. When this error would occur, the program would not appear in the Now Playing list, and you would have to go the the recording history to see why. Now, they do show up in the Now Playing list, but they are zero duration programs.

The 8.1 update didn't fix my "bug", where recordings would fail because "signal was unavailable on cable in" on 2 specific channels - 782 (WWMT-DT) and 783 (WZZM-DT). It seems to happen if the tuner is already on one of these channels, and a recording is initiated.

Actually the 8.1 update changed things a bit. When this error would occur, the program would not appear in the Now Playing list, and you would have to go the the recording history to see why. Now, they do show up in the Now Playing list, but they are zero duration programs.
So far, since getting 8.1, I havent had this issue yet, but I will try and torture test it this weekend. I'll let you know how it goes.

The 8.1 update didn't fix my "bug", where recordings would fail because "signal was unavailable on cable in" on 2 specific channels - 782 (WWMT-DT) and 783 (WZZM-DT). It seems to happen if the tuner is already on one of these channels, and a recording is initiated.

Actually the 8.1 update changed things a bit. When this error would occur, the program would not appear in the Now Playing list, and you would have to go the the recording history to see why. Now, they do show up in the Now Playing list, but they are zero duration programs.

I had this issue occur a few times prior to the 8.1 roll-out. It showed up as a zero-length recording, or as a partial recording (typically, the first XX minutes had no audio/video). Truth be told, my CableCards weren't exactly 100% up to snuff during this period.

Now that my CC's are good to go (fingers crossed!) and I've received 8.1, no issues to report to date.

My S3 was 100% perfectly functioning, PQ was awesome, sound too. Got the 8.1 update. Now I have frequent macroblocking and audio hiccups on all channels. Really dissapointing. I didn't miss the "recently deleted" folder that much...

Got the 8.1 udpate last tuesday, so far, so good. No complaints.

Mine's been working fine as well, I only watch HD so I wouldn't now if 8.1 did anything with the analog channels, but so far with HD, it's doing everything it's supposed to do and doing it well.

Got the 8.1 release last night and everything seems fine. I like the recently deleted folder and have also been trying the Kidzone which seems pretty cool. The only problem I'm having is that my hard disk space is filling up very quickly to the point that some programs are already not being recorded. I guess I have been spoiled with the 500G Sony that I also have.

Yes, I also have enjoyed having the recently deleted folder. A week ago, before I got the update, a friend came over and asked me if I still had the ER episode. I had already deleted it! The next Tuesday when I got the update, I went to the recently deleted folder and could not believe the episode was there. I had already taped quite a few other shows so I was surprised when I undeleted it and it was all there! Super nice.

I had this issue occur a few times prior to the 8.1 roll-out. It showed up as a zero-length recording, or as a partial recording (typically, the first XX minutes had no audio/video). Truth be told, my CableCards weren't exactly 100% up to snuff during this period.

Now that my CC's are good to go (fingers crossed!) and I've received 8.1, no issues to report to date.

Spoke too soon... I suffered my first zero-length recording this weekend on the E! channel. I'm not sure if E! is the analog version, or the digital simulcast, on my cable system. Fortunately, the show I was trying to record repeats a few times during the week, so I'll be able to record it again. However, it seems this bug hasn't been completely squashed yet.

That's unfortunate news. Thanks for keeping us up-to-date on this issue.

Does anyone have an update on the missing channels bug? Has 8.1 finally resolved IT?

Since the 8.1 update, I have been able to access the memory taken up by shows on my now playing list. The trick is that after you press "info" you need to page down to get to the bottom where it shows the percentage of hard drive space taken up by the show. It interesting to note that SD programs recorded on an HD channel take up about as much space as an HD program. So, if hard drive space is tight you might want to record those episodes of Seinfeld, Friends, etc. on any available SD channels.

I do have two more follow-up questions regarding the S3:

1. Do you free up hard drive space by deleting shows in your recently deleted folder? I would think so but I'm not sure if the S3 allocated a fixed space for this folder or if it simply takes up extra hard drive space as shows go into the folder.

2. How can you search and find HDTV programs like HD movies or HD sports? I tried combining the key word search "HDTV" with categories like movies or sports but that didn't seem to work.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any help.

1. Do you free up hard drive space by deleting shows in your recently deleted folder? I would think so but I'm not sure if the S3 allocated a fixed space for this folder or if it simply takes up extra hard drive space as shows go into the folder.



I might be wrong, but I thought that the percentage of hard drive space was shown on the info screen (at the bottom) prior to the 8.1 update. (I might be thinking of my S2 Tivo, though)...

I don't think that deleting programs from the Recently Deleted folder will really accomplish much. These are the first things to be removed when hard drive space is needed for recording new shows, so I prefer to just let them build up in that folder. You never know when you might want to go back to a deleted show and recover it!

I might be wrong, but I thought that the percentage of hard drive space was shown on the info screen (at the bottom) prior to the 8.1 update. (I might be thinking of my S2 Tivo, though)...

I don't think that deleting programs from the Recently Deleted folder will really accomplish much. These are the first things to be removed when hard drive space is needed for recording new shows, so I prefer to just let them build up in that folder. You never know when you might want to go back to a deleted show and recover it!

Yup. Stuff that's in "Recently Deleted" technically does take disk space, but it's the first to go when the TiVo needs disk space to record something. You should only have to start worrying about disk space when the RD folder is becoming empty. At that point, you've gotta make room one way or another manually, or start losing unwatched/undeleted programs in your NPL.

There isn't a way to search for HD programs, or set up an HD specific wishlist. This is something that was in the DirecTV HDTiVo, but was removed by TiVo for the S3's release. TiVoPony (official TiVo spokesman) says that they're working on putting it back in, but they've got bigger fish to fry at the moment. So, it's coming, but not for a little while...

I think it probably works like a computer. You're not really deleting files off of a hard drive unless you reformat it. When a file is deleted, the flags are removed and the space is overwritten the next time you need the space.

1. Do you free up hard drive space by deleting shows in your recently deleted folder? I would think so but I'm not sure if the S3 allocated a fixed space for this folder or if it simply takes up extra hard drive space as shows go into the folder.

2. How can you search and find HDTV programs like HD movies or HD sports? I tried combining the key word search "HDTV" with categories like movies or sports but that didn't seem to work.



1. Well, lately.. I've been skirting very close to the 32 hour limitation for HD recordings on my S3, and from manually counting the hours of my saved programming, I can see that the number of "deleted" folder programs does decrease as soon as space is needed for newly added captured content which would otherwise be causing my S3 to butt against or surpass the 32-ish hour HD programming limit.

While there very well could be a maximum limit as to how much programming can remain in the "deleted" folder, any content that is in this folder borrows from your (again, using the example of HD space) total 32 hour space allotment.

So, you do indeed free up program space by manually deleting stuff in your "deleted" folder, however, it's not really necessary as the Tivo will do that by itself as it needs more space for newly recorded programs.


2. I don't really have an answer here, but your question reminded me of another question I've had:

If you specify in your "wishlist", or whatever it's called, a name of an actor or musical performing artist, with hopes of capturing anything they appear in (specifically, if they show up on one of the latenight shows; Leno, Letterman, Conan, etc.), can it possibly hurt your chances of capturing their appearances if you qualify by categorizing or subcategorizing them? That is, will Tivo find them if they appear within some type of program/subject categorization outside of the one you may have specified for them? (I wouldn't use the categorizations at all, but there are times when the names I am saving to the wishlist are too generic and may end up causing Tivo to capture content totally unrelated to them, hence, the use of refined categorization).

example: I want to capture appearances of, say, the musician John Doe, and not of, say, the film Meet John Doe, so I would then categorize this in the wishlist under "performing arts", or whatever the relevant descripive is, in order to keep Tivo from grabbing the movie. But as a result of doing it this way, if John Doe the musician appears on Letterman some night, will the Tivo overlook it because Letterman is categorized under something like "variety show" or "comedy" while John Doe is being listed under "performing arts"?

I also tried to use HDTV as a keyword, but no luck. I wish I could tell TiVo suggestions to only record HD programs!

Hey all -

I am running into an issue where my Tivo Series 3 HD DVR is not showing many of my channels. Some of these channels are HD and some are SD. Time Warner says it's a Tivo issue and of course Tivo says it's a Time Warner issue with the Cable Cards. I have read on this thread that supposedly the 8.1 firmware update will fix this issue, but I was hoping some one would know for sure. Also, I'm assuming that to get such an update I would need to connect the Tivo to my wireless cable router? I have a phoneline connected already, woudl that suffice?

Thanks to all for their help.

I haven't read anything indicating that 8.1 will resolve the missing channels issue.

Updates will download over phone or network adapter (wiredor wireless).

I'd look up tivocommunity for more specific discussion/details about this missing channel 'issue' (which affects TVs with CableCards in these regions too, makng it a cable issu, AFAIR). I'm not up to speed on this issue, as none of my Comcast channels is missing :)

After the 8.1 upgrade, I noticed that some of the channels that I received had dropped out of my channel list. I went into the Settings menu and re-selected them, and was good to go.

To see if you can tune the channels, go into the Cable Card menus and test out some channels that you think you've lost. If you can get 'em, you'll simply need to re-add them in the Settings menu. If you can't get 'em, you've got a bigger problem related to the CableCARDs.

2. I don't really have an answer here, but your question reminded me of another question I've had:

If you specify in your "wishlist", or whatever it's called, a name of an actor or musical performing artist, with hopes of capturing anything they appear in (specifically, if they show up on one of the latenight shows; Leno, Letterman, Conan, etc.), can it possibly hurt your chances of capturing their appearances if you qualify by categorizing or subcategorizing them? That is, will Tivo find them if they appear within some type of program/subject categorization outside of the one you may have specified for them? (I wouldn't use the categorizations at all, but there are times when the names I am saving to the wishlist are too generic and may end up causing Tivo to capture content totally unrelated to them, hence, the use of refined categorization).

example: I want to capture appearances of, say, the musician John Doe, and not of, say, the film Meet John Doe, so I would then categorize this in the wishlist under "performing arts", or whatever the relevant descripive is, in order to keep Tivo from grabbing the movie. But as a result of doing it this way, if John Doe the musician appears on Letterman some night, will the Tivo overlook it because Letterman is categorized under something like "variety show" or "comedy" while John Doe is being listed under "performing arts"?


I do it in an easy but time-consuming way:

I put it in a wishlist and tell it not to automatically record the programs. Then once a week go through all my wishlists using View Upcoming Programs to decide what to record.

2. How can you search and find HDTV programs like HD movies or HD sports? I tried combining the key word search "HDTV" with categories like movies or sports but that didn't seem to work.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any help.

I use Guide. While watching live TV press Guide, then enter one of your HDTV channel numbers, then go to the right You can use down arrow to scan through all of the programs while looking at theri descriptions.

It's slow, but guarantees that I don't miss any great programs.

CB

Just wanted to drop in here and see if anyone using current HDMI receivers is having any trouble with the S3.

More specifically, I'm about to spring for a Marantz offering, but my understanding is that the S3 and the 7001/8001 don't like each other very much.

Can anyone in here confirm or deny that from personal experience?

TIA for any help.

I do it in an easy but time-consuming way:

I put it in a wishlist and tell it not to automatically record the programs. Then once a week go through all my wishlists using View Upcoming Programs to decide what to record.

maybe I'll just have to go and do the same. thanks for the feedback.

Just wanted to drop in here and see if anyone using current HDMI receivers is having any trouble with the S3.

More specifically, I'm about to spring for a Marantz offering, but my understanding is that the S3 and the 7001/8001 don't like each other very much.

Can anyone in here confirm or deny that from personal experience?

TIA for any help.
Don't have the Marantz, but I've never had any problems with my S3 and my Pioneer Elite 84TX.

And multiple people have reported success with various Yamaha HDMI receivers (HTR 5990, 6090, RX1700, 2500 etc) with S3 TiVos and flawless operation.

Seeing as how consistently the S3 works with almost all HDTVs that have HDMI correctly implemented, if at all it has an issue with any device, I'd blame that device and not the S3.

Seeing as how consistently the S3 works with almost all HDTVs that have HDMI correctly implemented, if at all it has an issue with any device, I'd blame that device and not the S3.

Unfortunately for Marantz (and me), I'm afraid that this is the case. Thanks for the responses thus far. If anyone that does own a Marantz HDMI AVR does wander in here and not the other thread, I'd love to hear from you. Otherwise, my quest continues....

The monoPrice 5x1 (or one of their cheaper 2x1 or 3x1) switch has been attributed with being a 'calming influence' with iffy HDMI connections in the past. It may be a worthwhile $40ish (for the cheaper one) or 100ish (for the 5x1) spent if it does, indeed, iron out the issues by being a nice little intermediary for the HDMI negotiation phase. If!

Good luck! If only th HDMI specs were static, and manufacturers' implementations consistent. Sigh.

The monoPrice 5x1 (or one of their cheaper 2x1 or 3x1) switch has been attributed with being a 'calming influence' with iffy HDMI connections in the past. It may be a worthwhile $40ish (for the cheaper one) or 100ish (for the 5x1) spent if it does, indeed, iron out the issues by being a nice little intermediary for the HDMI negotiation phase. If!

Good luck! If only th HDMI specs were static, and manufacturers' implementations consistent. Sigh.
you could try xtrememac 1in/4out hdmi switch for around $100.

Re: Missing Channels
I have the missing channel prob as well (missing lots of HD channels and the digital movie tier from Comcast in Memphis). Comcast has pretty much admitted it's a cable card problem and are coming tommorrow to replace the cable cards for the third time. They told me they test the cards in a Sony TV (which is what I have) at Comcast before they install them, but I find it hard to believe there are this many bad cable cards out there. The guy aslo said that cable cards go bad if they have a period of inactivity, say if you go on vacation- I said I dont know how this can happen since the TiVo is recording suggestions all teh time on both tuners. I called TiVo and they are aware of the problem and like an earlier poster said, they say it's the cards, but tell the tech to make sure to install and activate the cards one at a time as the instructions say. I know the guy in the past has done them both at once (altho the initial set of cards were installed this way and worked fine for about three months).

Re: Missing Channels
I have the missing channel prob as well (missing lots of HD channels and the digital movie tier from Comcast in Memphis). Comcast has pretty much admitted it's a cable card problem and are coming tommorrow to replace the cable cards for the third time. They told me they test the cards in a Sony TV (which is what I have) at Comcast before they install them, but I find it hard to believe there are this many bad cable cards out there. The guy aslo said that cable cards go bad if they have a period of inactivity, say if you go on vacation- I said I dont know how this can happen since the TiVo is recording suggestions all teh time on both tuners.Lies... all lies.

Your local Comcastic, like many cable providers don't like, want or will provide competent :rolleyes: support for CableCARD technology and why should they? Every one-way CableCARD installed means fewer revenue opportunities for the provider... which is a pretty big dis-incentive to resolving customer support issues.

BTW... I had my CableCARD removed from my PDP for about 6 months... after I reinstalled it I had to call my cable provider to have it reinitialized from their end... the process took about 15 minutes and there are no missing channels. ;)

Remember SDV... is the "death knell" of one-way CableCARD technology.

Remember SDV... is the "death knell" of one-way CableCARD technology.

Won't the more popular cable channels (major networks) not be on SDV as it only saves bandwidth on channels that aren't viewed by the masses?

Won't the more popular cable channels (major networks) not be on SDV as it only saves bandwidth on channels that aren't viewed by the masses?
That's what we were initially thinking, but then some folks on the TiVo Community Forum reported TWC in Austin TX putting almost all of their lineup on SDV.

That's what we were initially thinking, but then some folks on the TiVo Community Forum reported TWC in Austin TX putting almost all of their lineup on SDV.

Wow...I hate to hear it, but thanks for the info. Since TWC took over here I suppose we have to worry about that in the D/FW area, too. I know a lot of people seem to hate Comcast, but from what I've seen they beat TWC hands down. I guess if nothing else I'm glad I didn't pull the trigger on the S3 yet, but I have to feel for those in these markets that did...

Randy

That's what we were initially thinking, but then some folks on the TiVo Community Forum reported TWC in Austin TX putting almost all of their lineup on SDV.

Sounds like an attempt to eliminate 3rd party DVRs. :mad:

Well, not so much an attempt to eliminate them, but rather an attempt to provide better service to customers, without placing a heavy emphasis on stuff that might make less profitable offerings more attractive to customers.

I called TiVo to get some ammo to use when the cable guy comes to switch out the cable cards yet again to try to cure my missing channel problem and asked about the two-way cable cards which are supposed to be rolled out here in Memphis in July according to Comcast- he said they will work. I expressed my skepticism since everything I've read here sounds like that is not the case but he said by the time the 2-way cards come out the TiVo will be ready to handle it. True? And if so, does this help with the SDV problem? I agree w/Jim P- sounds like the cable cos are trying to do TiVo in (the only 3rd party DVR service left, isnt it? Is Replay still around?)

I guess I also find it hard to believe that TiVo does not have some kind of plan for dealing with the SDV problem- sounds like if they don't develop the software to make their boxes compatible with this then they are history and I have an expensive doorstop.

asked about the two-way cable cards which are supposed to be rolled out here in Memphis in July according to Comcast- he said they will work.You got some misinformation from Comcast there. What is coming in July is not a 2-way CableCard, but rather a Multistream CableCard (an M-Card). The M-Card basically combines the functionality of 2 one-way CableCards into a single card, allowing one card to descramble 2 different video streams at once. It has nothing to do with 2-way services or SDV. And yes, an M-Card should work in the S3 once the S3 gets a software update for it.

On the face of it, the S3 will never be able to handle SDV. TiVo might have some plan in their back pocket, perhaps a future external dongle that attaches to the S3 via USB, but that is pure speculation and its feasibility depends on how the negotiations over the interface for 2-way services pans out. It will be a long time, if ever, before an SDV solution for the S3 could appear.

Well I guess that's good news that the obsolescence is not as imminent as I feared! Thanks for responding.

I guess I also find it hard to believe that TiVo does not have some kind of plan for dealing with the SDV problem- sounds like if they don't develop the software to make their boxes compatible with this then they are history and I have an expensive doorstop.Again, software is not the problem. The problem is strictly hardware related.

Keep in mind, also, that at this point it is clear that MSOs are planning on using proprietary measures to communicate the information necessary to support SDV, so even if TiVo had the hardware to support that communication, the MSOs won't provide TiVo the means to use it -- just like the satellite companies won't provide TiVo the means to hook the TiVo S3 into their services either. A whole new regulation would have to be passed to force the MSOs to open that door up, and there will clearly be a big fight and therefore a lengthy delay involved in getting that regulation in place.

Sounds like an attempt to eliminate 3rd party DVRs. :mad:Only those, your S3 for example, with one way CableCARDs. I'll be in the same boat with my 50Us antenna w/CableCARD connection, which I hope to front-end with something like a TiVo S4 someday.

Broadband/HDTV applications that use coax cable infrastructure cannot support a lot of HD channels unless, what is currently SDV is implemented. CATV providers are pursuing this networking strategy in order to remain competitive with satellite and FiOS providers who all vie for the same market audience.

On the face of it, the S3 will never be able to handle SDV. TiVo might have some plan in their back pocket, perhaps a future external dongle that attaches to the S3 via USB, but that is pure speculation and its feasibility depends on how the negotiations over the interface for 2-way services pans out. It will be a long time, if ever, before an SDV solution for the S3 could appear.Yes, and another data-point here is that TiVo's engineers, on TCF, have consistently refrained from providing any support for this "dongle" idea. All indications are that it is a non-starter.

As I've said before, I'll bet that if TiVo address the SDV issue, they will do so by engineering a new series, the Series 4, a new piece of hardware.

Again, software is not the problem. The problem is strictly hardware related.

Keep in mind, also, that at this point it is clear that MSOs are planning on using proprietary measures to communicate the information necessary to support SDV, so even if TiVo had the hardware to support that communication, the MSOs won't provide TiVo the means to use it -- just like the satellite companies won't provide TiVo the means to hook the TiVo S3 into their services either. A whole new regulation would have to be passed to force the MSOs to open that door up, and there will clearly be a big fight and therefore a lengthy delay involved in getting that regulation in place.I'm not sure what your point is... other then support for one-way CableCARDs will be eliminated.

IMO... eventually the Cable MSOs, Satellite and FiOS providers will be forced to open up their networks and permit the use of plug & play interactive devices that support two-way communications, which adhere to whatever form DRM morphs into.

Time Warner can't stick us with using their SA8300 forever... or can they?

No, that wasn't my point (and I don't think it is necessarily true). Rather, the point is that CableCard will do what it is supposed to, but that will be necessary-but-not-sufficient to access services being provided by SDV.

I'm not sure if anyone is going to be forced to open up their networks. That kind of government interference is generally considered to a substantially anti-business perspective, which, while popular in the 1970s and early 1980s, has fallen out of favor in our country and may never return.

In July of this year the FCC has mandated that consumers will be able to buy off the shelf set-top boxes for use with their cable systems. The closed, proprietary cable systems' days are pretty much over.

The first set-top boxes to appear will use CableCard technology, (like the S3) and later we'll see CableCard 2.0, and probably OCAP versions as well. There has also been a lot of talk about putting the decoding circuitry directly into TVs. This approach is expected sometime late next year.

Dawn

I'm not sure what your point is... other then support for one-way CableCARDs will be eliminated.

IMO... eventually the Cable MSOs, Satellite and FiOS providers will be forced to open up their networks and permit the use of plug & play interactive devices that support two-way communications, which adhere to whatever form DRM morphs into.

Time Warner can't stick us with using their SA8300 forever... or can they?


He has no point. Simply add him to your Ignore List like the rest of us and live a happier life.

What the MSOs will or will not have to do depends upon a lot of things, like changes in the political climate of the nation and to what extent the content providers want to play hardball with the equipment manufacturers. This is a very fluid situation right now, and it would be foolish to draw long-term conclusions based only on today's situation.

What the MSOs will or will not have to do depends upon a lot of things, like changes in the political climate of the nation and to what extent the content providers want to play hardball with the equipment manufacturers. This is a very fluid situation right now, and it would be foolish to draw long-term conclusions based only on today's situation.Good analysis. Perhaps it makes too much sense to believe that some day the Cable MSOs will encourage manufacturers to produce interactive/feature rich products that support two way communications which enable content providers to market their services without the need for a proprietary STB.

How much longer must I use a 4-year-old SA8300?

Good analysis. Perhaps it makes too much sense to believe that some day the Cable MSOs will encourage manufacturers to produce interactive/feature rich products that support two way communications which enable content providers to market their services without the need for a proprietary STB.

How much longer must I use a 4-year-old SA8300?


Not gonna happen, unless the government forces them to do so. The MSOs and CEA are nearly diametrically opposed in their intents and goals. The MSOs crave control wherever and whenever they can get it, by hook or by crook, as any monopolist would. The CEA wants open and/or standards-based solutions to allow more competition in the marketplace.

My S3 works fine for me now, since I don't care about PPV or VOD and don't have to worry about SDV.

Perhaps TiVo's new low-cost HD box will work around some of those issues. Time will tell...

I'm not sure if anyone is going to be forced to open up their networks. That kind of government interference is generally considered to a substantially anti-business perspective, which, while popular in the 1970s and early 1980s, has fallen out of favor in our country and may never return.Umm, it's already happened; it's called an Act of Congress:
"The Commission shall [...] adopt regulations to assure the commercial availability [...] of converter boxes, interactive communications equipment, and other equipment used by consumers to access multichannel video programming and other services, [...] from manufacturers, retailers, and other vendors not affiliated with any multichannel video programming distributor." Done deal. It's the law. The government must assure the commercial availability of third party cable receivers. Now, clearly if an MSO moves all their programming to SDV, the government (FCC) will be forced to open up that SDV interface in whatever fashion is necessary to assure the commercial availability of receivers unaffiliated with the MSO.

Umm, it's already happened; it's called an Act of Congress:
Done deal. It's the law. The government must assure the commercial availability of third party cable receivers. Now, clearly if an MSO moves all their programming to SDV, the government (FCC) will be forced to open up that SDV interface in whatever fashion is necessary to assure the commercial availability of receivers unaffiliated with the MSO.


As I said a few posts up :

Simply add him to your Ignore List like the rest of us and live a happier life.

His self-appointed mission is to look out for and defend the "little guy" (a.k.a. Comcast). You know, because they need the help... :(

In July of this year the FCC has mandated that consumers will be able to buy off the shelf set-top boxes for use with their cable systems. The closed, proprietary cable systems' days are pretty much over.

The first set-top boxes to appear will use CableCard technology, (like the S3) and later we'll see CableCard 2.0, and probably OCAP versions as well. There has also been a lot of talk about putting the decoding circuitry directly into TVs. This approach is expected sometime late next year.

Dawn



TIVO has seen the writing on the wall. This FCC 7/01/07 mandate allows all electronic manufactures to sell "cable" boxes with DVR functions. There will be unlimited choices, and Tivo with it's monlty subscription fees will die a slow death. They have not made a dime only a pile of losses. Pity the poor saps who bought tivo3.

TIVO has seen the writing on the wall. This FCC 7/01/07 mandate allows all electronic manufactures to sell "cable" boxes with DVR functions. There will be unlimited choices, and Tivo with it's monlty subscription fees will die a slow death. They have not made a dime only a pile of losses. Pity the poor saps who bought tivo3.

Well, thanks for stopping by, Troll...

Fortunately, those of us who choose to live in the real world know differently. Just in case you hadn't heard, TiVo posted their quarterly financials today and those numbers indicated quite an upturn in business for TiVo. Even better, those numbers don't include the buckets of cash they're going to reap once the Cox and Comcast subscription fees start kicking in in a quarter or two. If you'd care to get a clue, you can read all about it right HERE (http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070307/sfw049.html?.v=87) or HERE (http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2007-03/tivo-q4-turned-the-corner-low-cost-hd-box-cometh/#more-1463)

Now, tine to go back into your cave and enjoy your Moto or (shudder) SA box...

TIVO has seen the writing on the wall. This FCC 7/01/07 mandate allows all electronic manufactures to sell "cable" boxes with DVR functions. There will be unlimited choices, and Tivo with it's monlty [sic] subscription fees will die a slow death. They have not made a dime only a pile of losses. Pity the poor saps who bought tivo3.
I recognize that the foregoing post is a troll and that I am rising to the bait. Alas, I cannot help myself this time.

The poster clearly does not understand that “It costs a little more to go first class.” In fact a cynic might conclude that the poster has never owned a TiVo and thus has no basis for expressing an opinion. What the hell, though, talk is cheap. Perhaps the poster could enlighten us concerning his experiences with TiVo.

I bought my first TiVo in 2000 and used it until 2004 when I finally replaced it after Cox OKC started renting HD DVRs. Because it its high price, I resisted the TiVo Series3 until two months ago but finally bought one. It has turned out to be the best money I ever spent. I had a lifetime subscription on my first TiVo, so I was able to transfer it and avoid TiVo’s “montly” fees. Still, the transfer fee was nearly $200 on top of the price of the box, but it was money well spent. Trust me on this.

As I have pointed out in numerous posts, in both AVS Forum and the TiVo Community Forum, a TiVo makes no economic sense because the price of the box, still about $600, and subscription fees are far, far higher that the less-than-ten-bucks a month the cable companies charge for their HD DVRs. Nevertheless, TiVo is in a class by itself. Using a TiVo will quickly convince one that the DVRs rented by cable companies are crippled and incapable of carrying out most of the tasks we TiVo owners take for granted.

TiVo has made many bad marketing decisions and I am the first to concede that the company may not survive. But the TiVo software WILL survive because it’s simply too good not to be used somewhere. I suspect that TiVo’s future lies in making deals such as those it has with Comcast and Cox to make TiVo software available for their DVRs. When that will happen is anybody’s guess, though, so many of us have made an informed decision to buy the very best, the TiVo S3, and exponentially improve our television viewing experience immediately. That doesn’t make us either stupid or wasteful but it certainly has made us happy.

In July of this year the FCC has mandated that consumers will be able to buy off the shelf set-top boxes for use with their cable systems. The closed, proprietary cable systems' days are pretty much over. Unfortunately, that's not true. The FCC mandate doesn't prohibit what the MSOs are doing to support SDV. The MSOs can still require their own equipment for any services delivered by SDV.

Now, clearly if an MSO moves all their programming to SDV, the government (FCC) will be forced to open up that SDV interface in whatever fashion is necessary to assure the commercial availability of receivers unaffiliated with the MSO.Evidently, we disagree. Clearly, the cable companies agree with me. Time will tell.

His self-appointed mission is to look out for and defend the "little guy" (a.k.a. Comcast). No, my goal is to simply not allow the inane big-company-bashing go unrebutted.

TIVO has seen the writing on the wall. This FCC 7/01/07 mandate allows all electronic manufactures to sell "cable" boxes with DVR functions. There will be unlimited choices...Where are all the CE announcements for new competitors to TiVo?

Has anyone out there tried Amazon Unbox yet on their S3? I "rented" a movie through them, and have yet to see it download to my Tivo. I went through all of the troubleshooting, but it just doesn't come through.

Anyone else have a problem with this?

Has anyone out there tried Amazon Unbox yet on their S3? I "rented" a movie through them, and have yet to see it download to my Tivo. I went through all of the troubleshooting, but it just doesn't come through.

Anyone else have a problem with this?

I signed up, but haven't downloaded anything. People at TCF say the Amazon phone support is very good for Unbox.

I was going to try it, but everything is 4x3 content for the S3. There is 16x9 for the PC stuff though.

There has been so much criticism of the poor video and audio quality of the Unbox offerings that I decided not to try it. When and if they add HD I will be interested but until then not so much.

The audio and video quality aren't terrific, but it's not VHS either. I'd say that it's comparable to a mid-to-higher quality encode of something you might find on the net.

IMHO, there's no incentive to make any Unbox purchases. For a few dollars more, you can own a real DVD with superior quality that can be played on any standard DVD player.

However, the rental presents a better proposition. No trip to/from the video store, the cost is equivalent to my area rental stores, and you can "keep" it for a month before having to watch it. The downsides are the aforementioned audio/video quality (not DVD, but not bad), and having to complete the viewing within 24 hours from hitting "play".

I tried another movie, and this one DID download. I will say that the quality isn't stellar. It is 4x3 and any movement tend to produce some nasty motion blur. I don't think that I would actually pay for this service (the first $15 is free).

...For a few dollars more, you can own a real DVD with superior quality that can be played on any standard DVD player....Heck, I can get most of these movies on DVD used in good condition for $5-10 at any video store.

The quality is def not as good as from dvd, and the sound is only in STEREO.

Anyone got the external drive port (SATA) working yet?

The quality is def not as good as from dvd, and the sound is only in STEREO.

Anyone got the external drive port (SATA) working yet?Hasn't been enabled by TiVo yet.

ahh thanks.. yeah i read the post by tivopony on the tivo forums..
sux we have these boxes and no easy way to USE WHAT IS actually built into them

ahh thanks.. yeah i read the post by tivopony on the tivo forums..
sux we have these boxes and no easy way to USE WHAT IS actually built into them

Blame Cablelabs for putting the spanner in the works - they have to approve functionality like this first; Same with transfers of shows between units (MRV) and to PCs & back (TTG/TTCB)

Hi all,
Just ordered a S3 from costco :) and have a question. What wireless adapters are being used successfully?
Thanks in advance,
Jerry

Hi all,
Just ordered a S3 from costco :) and have a question. What wireless adapters are being used successfully?
Thanks in advance,
Jerry

I used the Tivo-branded one successfully.

The issue of which wireless adapter to use with the S3 has been discussed in numerous threads at the TiVo Community Forum. The consensus seems to be that if you don’t have a surplus wireless adapter, then buying the TiVo adapter is the best bet. I have had good luck with using an old Linksys WAP-54g that I had lying around as a wireless adapter for my S3 but if I had needed to buy a new one it certainly would have been the TiVo brand.

Hi all,
Just ordered a S3 from costco :) and have a question. What wireless adapters are being used successfully?
Thanks in advance,
JerryI'd hardwire CAT-5 if you can. It's worth it for peace of mind. Don't have to worry about wireless signal fluctuations.

I'd hardwire CAT-5 if you can. It's worth it for peace of mind. Don't have to worry about wireless signal fluctuations.
I have been using 802.11g WiFi for four years and it has been as stable as a light switch. I would never go back to hardwiring. It’s simply not necessary in this day and time, it seems to me. The new 802.11n standard makes WiFi even better because multiple signals are sent and received, so both range and error correction are exponentially better.

I have been using 802.11g WiFi for four years and it has been as stable as a light switch. I would never go back to hardwiring. It’s simply not necessary in this day and time, it seems to me. The new 802.11n standard makes WiFi even better because multiple signals are sent and received, so both range and error correction are exponentially better.

+1

My S3 is attached to my 802.11g wireless w/ WPA-PSK via a WRT54G router acting as a client bridge. Piece o' cake. Unbox downloads regularly 4-5+ Mbps over my Comcast cable connection.

Depends on your location....if you're not that close to your unit...hardwiring is the way to go for reliability.

Depends on your location....if you're not that close to your unit...hardwiring is the way to go for reliability.

What ???

Wireless networking is robust out to significant distances, that far exceed the size of a normal (or even large) home. Even more so with the advent of the MIMO technologies being implemented in current 802.11g and near-future 802.11n wireless nets. If you're far enough away to have problems with your wireless network, you're dealing with crappy wireless gear, or you're living in a home that approaches the size of Buckingham Palace. :)

What ???

Wireless networking is robust out to significant distances, that far exceed the size of a normal (or even large) home. Even more so with the advent of the MIMO technologies being implemented in current 802.11g and near-future 802.11n wireless nets. If you're far enough away to have problems with your wireless network, you're dealing with crappy wireless gear, or you're living in a home that approaches the size of Buckingham Palace. :)

I have a Linksys WRT54G wireless router that wirelessly connects my laptop to my desktop.

Do I just attach my old Linksys Wireless Access Point to the TiVo? Then what? I'm kind of new at this.

Thanks, CB

....go get a beer... :)

I have a Linksys WRT54G wireless router that wirelessly connects my laptop to my desktop.

Do I just attach my old Linksys Wireless Access Point to the TiVo? Then what? I'm kind of new at this.

Thanks, CB

Depends upon what kind of WAP it is. If it's like a wireless "game adapter" where it connects an ethernet port to the wireless net, you're all set.

Depends on your location....if you're not that close to your unit...hardwiring is the way to go for reliability.
The new 802.11n standard routers have no practical limits in a residential setting. They are powerful enough to retain communication with any wireless adapter anywhere in a house and in the yard, too, if the mood moves you.

What ???

Wireless networking is robust out to significant distances, that far exceed the size of a normal (or even large) home. Even more so with the advent of the MIMO technologies being implemented in current 802.11g and near-future 802.11n wireless nets. If you're far enough away to have problems with your wireless network, you're dealing with crappy wireless gear, or you're living in a home that approaches the size of Buckingham Palace. :)

I don't live in a palace, but - as it turns out - my dsl-wireless unit is at one corner of the house and on the second floor (where my study is), and my TV and other HD stuff is at the opposite corner, and on the first floor, AND in that room I can just barely get a wireless connection with my laptop...usually it's slower than a dialup (whatever those are - hard to remember)...works fine in all the other rooms of the house, but for that room, about 50 feet distance, plus the floor and 3 or so walls to go through, most at an oblique angle (if that makes a difference)...

I don't live in a palace, but - as it turns out - my dsl-wireless unit is at one corner of the house and on the second floor (where my study is), and my TV and other HD stuff is at the opposite corner, and on the first floor, AND in that room I can just barely get a wireless connection with my laptop...usually it's slower than a dialup (whatever those are - hard to remember)...works fine in all the other rooms of the house, but for that room, about 50 feet distance, plus the floor and 3 or so walls to go through, most at an oblique angle (if that makes a difference)...

My wireless set up is essentially the same. 2rd story wireless router connecting to a basement-level media room on the other side of the side. No connectivity problems.

Sounds like the construction materials used in building your house are shielding the wireless signals from reaching that room, or your wireless router is a really weak transmitter. You may want to investigate a different router, perhaps one with MIMO. That extra signal can certainly help you in your situation.

You can score a Buffalo 802.11g router with an amplified antenna section for $40-50 nowadays at Newegg. Slap a 3rd party firmware like Tomato or DD-WRT, and you'd likely be good to go.

Sounds like the construction materials used in building your house are shielding the wireless signals from reaching that room, or your wireless router is a really weak transmitter. You may want to investigate a different router, perhaps one with MIMO. That extra signal can certainly help you in your situation.
By far the best way I have found to effectively increase WiFi range is to get an “n” standard router, I have a Belkin Pre-n wireless router. It has tremendous range and solved all the problems I had been having with my old “g” router. The price of an “n” router isn’t much more than an amplified antenna and works perfectly.

By far the best way I have found to effectively increase WiFi range is to get an “n” standard router, I have a Belkin Pre-n wireless router. It has tremendous range and solved all the problems I had been having with my old “g” router. The price of an “n” router isn’t much more than an amplified antenna and works perfectly.

The only concern I have about advocating pre-N gear is that it's non-standard, no matter how you look at it since the spec hasn't been ratified yet. So, the gear you buy today may be incompatible with other gear now (different interpretations of the draft spec) and non-standard in the future.

This will change in a year or two, when the spec is standardized, but until then I'd be very hesitant in my pre-N wireless purchases.

The only concern I have about advocating pre-N gear is that it's non-standard, no matter how you look at it since the spec hasn't been ratified yet. So, the gear you buy today may be incompatible with other gear now (different interpretations of the draft spec) and non-standard in the future.

This will change in a year or two, when the spec is standardized, but until then I'd be very hesitant in my pre-N wireless purchases.
That’s a good point but one that did not affect me. I bought the Belkin pre-n not to obtain “n” standard capability but to increase the range of my router with my “g” network adapters. The Belkin pre-n is backward compatible with both the “b” and “g” standards. Believe it or not, I bought mine on the strength of a tip from a manager at a local CompUSA after I asked him to tell me a good way to increase the range of my home WiFi installation. He could not have been more right.

The only concern I have about advocating pre-N gear is that it's non-standard, no matter how you look at it since the spec hasn't been ratified yet. So, the gear you buy today may be incompatible with other gear now (different interpretations of the draft spec) and non-standard in the future.

This will change in a year or two, when the spec is standardized, but until then I'd be very hesitant in my pre-N wireless purchases.
Paul, I've been rocking my Belkin Pre-N for over a year now with a Pre-N card in one laptop and the A/B/G internal card in the other. The speed and range improvement was unbelievable. I even had a Palm with wifi that would barely work with the old b-router. When I switched to the Pre-N, it was blazing, just getting a much better signal.

I would recommend the Pre-N or whatever they're calling the new stuff now (I've seen the new routers at Best Buy) without hesitation.

Paul, I've been rocking my Belkin Pre-N for over a year now with a Pre-N card in one laptop and the A/B/G internal card in the other. The speed and range improvement was unbelievable. I even had a Palm with wifi that would barely work with the old b-router. When I switched to the Pre-N, it was blazing, just getting a much better signal.

I would recommend the Pre-N or whatever they're calling the new stuff now (I've seen the new routers at Best Buy) without hesitation.

OK, I hear what you're saying. Still, my wireless-G stuff is working fine for now, and personally I'm gonna stick with that.

Probably the only piece of pre-N gear that I'd consider buying would be that slick new Apple wireless router. I know it doesn't have the gig-E or QoS goodies on board, but to be able to hang drives off of it via USB is something I'd really like to use. Also, you know that Apple's made damn sure that they'll be able to keep it draft/spec/standards compliant when the time comes.

An alternative to some nonstandard pre-N gear is to get something like a Buffalo WHR-HP-G54, which is a particularly sensitive G router with a integrated transmit amplifier. It's amazing how much better it is than a standard Linksys sort of thing.

I have a 1500 meter link with a couple of 14dB Yagis and swapped out one of my Linksys routers for the Buffalo and the received signal strength at that end went from around -69 dBm to about -50dBm. I can now lock the link at 54Mbps with no problem, where it previously could only support that data rate intermittently. I still have yet to swap out the other end.

wierdo,

So you use the Buffalo at the computer end and the regular Tivo transmitter at the Tivo end?

An alternative to some nonstandard pre-N gear is to get something like a Buffalo WHR-HP-G54, which is a particularly sensitive G router with a integrated transmit amplifier. It's amazing how much better it is than a standard Linksys sort of thing.

I have a 1500 meter link with a couple of 14dB Yagis and swapped out one of my Linksys routers for the Buffalo and the received signal strength at that end went from around -69 dBm to about -50dBm. I can now lock the link at 54Mbps with no problem, where it previously could only support that data rate intermittently. I still have yet to swap out the other end.

That's precisely the router I'm using as my access point. :)

It's loaded up with a 3rd party firmware (Tomato), which adds lots of useful features like a real QoS implementation (useful for my Vonage) and static DHCP, along with many others. Also provides a very slick GUI which makes configuration a breeze.

My other router, a Linksys WRT54G converted to "WET" mode (also referred to as wireless bridge or client bridge) is connected to my S3 downstairs via ethernet cable. So, the S3 doesn't directly participate in the wireless cloud, since that's been offloaded to the WRT54G.

wierdo,

So you use the Buffalo at the computer end and the regular Tivo transmitter at the Tivo end?

Yup, that's another way to go.

Well I'm finally tired of having problems with my Comcast DVR and want to purchase a Series3. I've looked around everywhere and seen a variety of prices - is there "one" that most people purchase from the provides the best pricing? THanks

Yup, that's another way to go.

Paul,

Is there a better way to do it? or just different?

I'm interesting in going wireless for my S3 and want something bulletproof and fast.(hope that's not mutually exclusive)

Well I'm finally tired of having problems with my Comcast DVR and want to purchase a Series3. I've looked around everywhere and seen a variety of prices - is there "one" that most people purchase from the provides the best pricing? THanks

It's available from the TiVo Community Store for $599, no coupons or rebates required.

LINKY (http://store.tivocommunity.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=EA&Product_Code=2777&Category_Code=)

Paul,

Is there a better way to do it? or just different?

I'm interesting in going wireless for my S3 and want something bulletproof and fast.(hope that's not mutually exclusive)

It's just different. There's likely a performance benefit in going with two routers, but I can't give you any definitive numbers.

I went with two wireless routers, rather than one wireless router in addition to TiVo's wireless adapter, for a few reasons.


wireless router's diversity antennae likely exceeded TiVo's wireless adapter performance
more configurable
wireless router is usable with anything else should I want to do so. With the TiVo adapter, you're locked into using it with TiVo gear.
same price

I was going to try it, but everything is 4x3 content for the S3. There is 16x9 for the PC stuff though.

Yeah, I called them about it (amazon) because it was obviously INANE that they were offering 4x3 stuff for the series 3...they said "they're working on it"...which I don't understand why it's something that needs to be "worked on" since they already have it in 16x9 for the pc!!!

on another note, just to try it out, I did download a tv show for 1.99 out of my $15 credit, and it seemed to show up fine on the now playing list...but...when I play it, I get sound, and no video! same thing for the downloaded content that you can get on the tivo itself (don't remember the real name for that, sorry)...I get sound but no video. I am connected via hdmi...has anyone else seen this? I haven't gotten a chance to calling tivo tech support yet, but I wanted to see if anyone else has seen this (or not seen it - ha!).

I have been offered a used S3 for $400. I have no interest in paying a monthly service for it. Will the device still work without subscribing? All I would want it to do is rewind what I am watching and make a few manual recordings now and then. Is it possible? Thank you.

I have been offered a used S3 for $400. I have no interest in paying a monthly service for it. Will the device still work without subscribing? All I would want it to do is rewind what I am watching and make a few manual recordings now and then. Is it possible? Thank you.It's a fancy, pricey doorstop without subscribing....well, not completely. You can use it as an HD tuner, but there's no programming information.

Have you ever tried TiVo? If that used S3 is in good shape, $400 is a great price. I would take it. The programming and features are well worth $12.95/month to me.

The programming and features are well worth $12.95/month to me.
And cheaper than the boxes most cable companies rent you, unless they overprice the cablecards.

heisman, if you don't want it, PM me and I'll send you the $400, shipping costs, plus a little something for your trouble, and you can ship it to me. ;)

If it's completely functional, I'd be interested in it as well at that price(plus shipping, blah, blah...) :)

[QUOTE=bierboy]It's a fancy, pricey doorstop without subscribing....well, not completely. You can use it as an HD tuner, but there's no programming information.

What do you mean by using it as an HD tuner? Can it be set to manually record by time and channel? CB

[QUOTE=bierboy]It's a fancy, pricey doorstop without subscribing....well, not completely. You can use it as an HD tuner, but there's no programming information.

What do you mean by using it as an HD tuner? Can it be set to manually record by time and channel? CB
No, it will be able to tune over the air content which you can then watch live.

[QUOTE=bierboy]It's a fancy, pricey doorstop without subscribing....well, not completely. You can use it as an HD tuner, but there's no programming information.

What do you mean by using it as an HD tuner? Can it be set to manually record by time and channel? CBYes, that's exactly what he's saying. You can use it to tune to any given channel number "live" (cable or over-the-air), and you can also set it to manually record a given channel at a given time. But without programming information, you give up all the automated recording features that make the TiVo truly useful...no Season Pass, no WishLists, etc.

Does the TiVo S3 have a unencrypted digital QAM tuner? I have basic cable ($14.95/mo, no cable card, etc.), which includes the local HD channels in the clear - as required by law. Will the TiVo S3 be able to pick the local HD channels up?

Does the TiVo S3 have a unencrypted digital QAM tuner? I have basic cable ($14.95/mo, no cable card, etc.), which includes the local HD channels in the clear - as required by law. Will the TiVo S3 be able to pick the local HD channels up?

Yup.

The S3 does a great job with OTA digital channels. That was one of the main reasons I bought mine. The owners of the local ABC and Fox affiliates demanded payment from Cox OKC to carry their digital feeds and Cox refused. Thus, Grey's Anatomy, 24, and a bunch of other ABC and Fox shows are not available in HD on Cox OKC. My S3 purchase solved the problem.

The S3 seamlessly integrates program information for all of the cable and OTA channels you receive, so it is irrelevant whether you can get any particular local station on cable. Just record it OTA with an S3. I had quit watching Grey’s Anatomy because I didn’t want to watch an SD recording via Cox and I wasn’t willing to watch it live, commercials and all, just to see it in HD. I haven’t missed an episode since I got my S3.

gwsat,

Same here with Brighthouse Networks and the local Fox affiliate. I just record it off of OTA-HD.

Considering how much of what I watch is available on OTA, it might not be a bad ideal to drop cable for TV. Still would have to keep cable for internet.

[QUOTE=abredt]Yes, that's exactly what he's saying. You can use it to tune to any given channel number "live" (cable or over-the-air), and you can also set it to manually record a given channel at a given time. But without programming information, you give up all the automated recording features that make the TiVo truly useful...no Season Pass, no WishLists, etc.

I am going to buy it then. All I want it to do is tune to clear qam channels, have the ability to pause them or rewind them, and set manual recordings. I don't need anything more than that. Thanks for the help everyone.

Does the TiVo S3 have a unencrypted digital QAM tuner? I have basic cable ($14.95/mo, no cable card, etc.), which includes the local HD channels in the clear - as required by law. Will the TiVo S3 be able to pick the local HD channels up?
Hold on...yes the S3 can tune unencrypted QAM channels, but without a CableCARD, you will not get any guide data associated with those channels. You can tune to them using channel up/down or by entering their channel numbers, and you can schedule a manual recording by channel number/time/date, but you cannot see any programming information in the grid, use Season Pass, use WishList, etc. This severely cripples the S3.

As suggested above, you can try to get the same channels over-the-air using an antenna. If you can, then you will get full programming data for channels received this way. This may or may not work for you however; I cannot receive any OTA signals due to my location.

Hold on...yes the S3 can tune unencrypted QAM channels, but without a CableCARD, you will not get any guide data associated with those channels. You can tune to them using channel up/down or by entering their channel numbers, and you can schedule a manual recording by channel number/time/date, but you cannot see any programming information in the grid, use Season Pass, use WishList, etc. This severely cripples the S3.

I've been considering a pair of S3s to replace my three Pioneer NTSC DVRs... which *only* have manual recording. That's right... they have no support whatsoever for any electronic program guide (even TVGOS). No doubt I don't know what I'm missing, but an EPG would simply be gravy to me rather than an essential feature.

You seem to be saying that an S3 could be used like that without paying TiVo's monthly fees. Is that really true? In particular, can manual recordings be scheduled both "one time only" as well as "repeat every week"? I do consider the latter to be essential.

Finally, if an S3 can record manually without TiVo service, how is a recorded program identified? The Pioneer DVRs support naming via alphanumeric entry from a screen of special characters as well as telephone-pad-like data entry. Is something like that available on the TiVo?

No - not the S3. It is an expensive trick-play (pause/play) 30-minute buffer doorstop without subscription.

If you can afford the two S3s, surely you can buy cheap multi-year subscriptions for each to derive maximum benefit and make yuorself eligible for upgrades as and when they show up and the whole shebang - guides, support etc! :)

You seem to be saying that an S3 could be used like that without paying TiVo's monthly fees. Is that really true? In particular, can manual recordings be scheduled both "one time only" as well as "repeat every week"? I do consider the latter to be essential.Yes, manual recordings can be scheduled to repeat daily or weekly.
Finally, if an S3 can record manually without TiVo service, how is a recorded program identified?A manual recording is identified by the channel number, time and date. No alphanumeric "label".

Given your expectations, I think the S3 without any programming guide data would work for you. But do keep in mind that the programming data enables a bunch of really cool features on the TiVo.

Ashu, what did you mean by "No - not the S3"?

Alright - so if you're so sure, maybe the S3 does do that. I've never considered going without a sub, though (heck, I even have my Toshiba DVD RS-TX20 which already includes Free Basic Service included, fully subscribed and networked!)

Is a lifetime subscription a safe option? I only ask because the description on ebay says it stays with the box, not the user. This scares the hell out of me. What if the box breaks, or what if their is new technology and I have to buy a new box? Did I just flush a bunch of money down the toilet, or can I switch the lifetime subsription to a new box? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

My S3 has Lifetime (so does one of my S2s).

Here's how i see it - my S3 will continue doing in a year or two all/most of what it does today & remain an unbelievably awesome OTA DVR with prepaid service even fi SDV catches on bigger than all teh hugest doomsayers imply. I call that MY money's worth.

Only YOU can make that decision for yourself :)

In the past, whenever TiVo has introduced a drastically new/different Series, they've offered a free/cheap way to transfer Lifetime from an older, less-un-obsolete box to it.

You can either hope they do that again and take a chance on the value of Lifetime, or do it based on a hopeful assumption that technology will stagnate (Cable Companies would lvoe that!) or not buy the S3!

Alright - so if you're so sure, maybe the S3 does do that. I've never considered going without a sub, thoughDon't get me wrong...I wouldn't consider it either. The programming data is central to the TiVo experience. BUT if all you want to do is schedule manual recordings and have live trick-play...then you could get by without programming data.

Hold on...yes the S3 can tune unencrypted QAM channels, but without a CableCARD, you will not get any guide data associated with those channels. You can tune to them using channel up/down or by entering their channel numbers, and you can schedule a manual recording by channel number/time/date, but you cannot see any programming information in the grid, use Season Pass, use WishList, etc. This severely cripples the S3.

So even if you have a subscription, the S3 won't pick up guide data without a cable card, forcing me to upgrade my subscription beyond basic cable? The reason I'm asking is that I don't want to pay the cable company $55/mo ($29.99/mo standard cable + $25.99/mo HD-DVR). So, I'm hoping to just pay the $600-$700 for the S3 and keep my basic cable at $14.95/mo on top of the TiVo subscription at $12.95/mo. All I care about is the local HD channels, I could care less about standard cable and don't want to pay the extra $15/mo for it.

So even if you have a subscription, the S3 won't pick up guide data without a cable card, forcing me to upgrade my subscription beyond basic cable? The reason I'm asking is that I don't want to pay the cable company $55/mo ($29.99/mo standard cable + $25.99/mo HD-DVR). So, I'm hoping to just pay the $600-$700 for the S3 and keep my basic cable at $14.95/mo on top of the TiVo subscription at $12.95/mo. All I care about is the local HD channels, I could care less about standard cable and don't want to pay the extra $15/mo for it.You CAN pick up guide data without cablecards. The S3 works fine both with and without them. I'm doing what you're planning to do; I have basic cable with no CCs and receive guide data for OTA HD and basic cable channels just fine with my TiVo subscription.

You CAN pick up guide data without cablecards. The S3 works fine both with and without them. I'm doing what you're planning to do; I have basic cable with no CCs and receive guide data for OTA HD and basic cable channels just fine with my TiVo subscription.

Lindahl,
What bierboy says is correct, I do the same thing. But you need to understand what he is saying. He gets his HD local channels OVER THE AIR like me, not from the unencrypted QAM HD from the cable company. With OTA HD you get your channel mapping/guide data. On my cable system the unencrypted QAM HD does not show up in the channel mapping and I get no guide data with it. The Tivo allows you to watch it but it doesn't know what it is because my cable company doesn't provide the mapping to those channels without the cable cards.
The S3 does a great job of "combining" the basic cable service and the OTA HD channels into one seamless channel guide.

I have cable HD with CableCARDs, along with a TiVo lifetime subscription, for my S3. The S3 would work just as well if I had no cable, the only limitation being that there are exponentially fewer OTA channels than cable channels.

In the three months I have had my S3 I have seen that I record almost as much HD programming from OTA digital channels as I do from cable, so it seems to me that being limited to OTA would not be a huge loss. I have one caveat to this: ESPN is close to indispensable for sports fans who have HD.

I have cable HD with CableCARDs, along with a TiVo lifetime subscription, for my S3. The S3 would work just as well if I had no cable, the only limitation being that there are exponentially fewer OTA channels than cable channels.

In the three months I have had my S3 I have seen that I record almost as much HD programming from OTA digital channels as I do from cable, so it seems to me that being limited to OTA would not be a huge loss. I have one caveat to this: ESPN is close to indispensable for sports fans who have HD.gwsat - yeah... I would be tempted, but just can't see ponying up another 50-70 bucks a month for the privilege (basic --> basic expanded --> digital tier --> HD package --> HD DVR). And I've had PLENTY to watch off OTA HD....so much so that I haven't gotten to it all in the past several months. That's with just CBS HD, NBC HD, ABC HD, PBS HD and Fox HD.

You CAN pick up guide data without cablecards.Jeeze guys, you sure are confusing things for Lindahl. He was asking about unencrypted QAM specifically, not OTA, so any mention of OTA reception was very misleading.

Not all of us can get usable OTA reception. Depends on your location, obviously.

It's really simple:

Without CableCARDS, you can tune and get guide data for OTA channels and analog cable channels. You can tune BUT NOT GET GUIDE DATA for unencrypted digital cable channels (i.e. unencrypted QAM).

With CableCARDS, you can tune and get guide data for OTA channels, analog cable channels, unencrypted digital cable channels, and any encrypted digital cable channels that you subscribe to.

Jeeze guys, you sure are confusing things for Lindahl. He was asking about unencrypted QAM specifically, not OTA, so any mention of OTA reception was very misleading.

Not all of us can get usable OTA reception. Depends on your location, obviously.

It's really simple:

Without CableCARDS, you can tune and get guide data for OTA channels and analog cable channels. You can tune BUT NOT GET GUIDE DATA for unencrypted digital cable channels (i.e. unencrypted QAM).

With CableCARDS, you can tune and get guide data for OTA channels, analog cable channels, unencrypted digital cable channels, and any encrypted digital cable channels that you subscribe to.
Mea culpa! I had let the distinction between unencrypted QAM reception of local HD channels via cable, and OTA reception fly right over my head.

Got it, thanks guys. Looks like the cable companies are doing a good job at screwing the customer into paying big bucks just for a DVR and local HD. Hopefully my Sony HD500 will last me until another solution with TVGOS comes along (which can get digital guide over unencrypted QAM, no problem).

Got it, thanks guys. Looks like the cable companies are doing a good job at screwing the customer into paying big bucks just for a DVR and local HD. Hopefully my Sony HD500 will last me until another solution with TVGOS comes along (which can get digital guide over unencrypted QAM, no problem).

Doesn't a pair of cablecards cost something like $5/month?

$1.50 each for mine

$1.50 total for both CCs here in the SF area.

I am thinking of going the S3 route, as it seems to me (on Comcast) that the price of the Tivo service and 2 cable cards is about the same as I am paying for the Moto box and DVR service. Are the costs, in fact, pretty comparable?

Do any of you S3 users miss the on demand? Does the Tivo interface outweigh the loss of OD? I am a former S2 Directivo user (hacked) and I am having withdraws without my Tivo. I'm trying to be patient for the Comcast/Tivo upgrade, but I'm also having trouble with the small disk size in my 3412.

Any advice from those who made the move (positive and neg)?

Thanks,

/m/

Doesn't a pair of cablecards cost something like $5/month?

Depends on your cable company. Mine will not rent them, you have to buy them for $150 each.

Depends on your cable company. Mine will not rent them, you have to buy them for $150 each.

Surely, you must be joking. What cable company is this?

I am pretty sure that would be a major violation of the FCC regulations about cablecard usage. Wasn't part of the stipulation that the cablecard cost should be reasonable?

Surely, you must be joking. What cable company is this?

I am pretty sure that would be a major violation of the FCC regulations about cablecard usage. Wasn't part of the stipulation that the cablecard cost should be reasonable?
There might be provisions in the reg about company size, competition, etc. I have seen elsewhere that people have been having to buy them, not common at all, but it's out there.

Surely, you must be joking. What cable company is this?

I am pretty sure that would be a major violation of the FCC regulations about cablecard usage. Wasn't part of the stipulation that the cablecard cost should be reasonable?

No joke, I have Service Electric CATV. I still use their DVR (Moxi) along with my cable cardless S3 for OTA HD. On the bright side, they just upgraded the Moxi DVR to the latest software release which supports external hard drives. Just hooked up a 500GB USB2.0 drive last night and substantially increased my storage space on that unit!
So I guess they are not all that bad, Charter & TWC customers still have no update on if & when their Moxi units will be upgraded and if the external hard drive feature will be enabled.

I am thinking of going the S3 route, as it seems to me (on Comcast) that the price of the Tivo service and 2 cable cards is about the same as I am paying for the Moto box and DVR service. Are the costs, in fact, pretty comparable?

Do any of you S3 users miss the on demand? Does the Tivo interface outweigh the loss of OD? I am a former S2 Directivo user (hacked) and I am having withdraws without my Tivo. I'm trying to be patient for the Comcast/Tivo upgrade, but I'm also having trouble with the small disk size in my 3412.

Any advice from those who made the move (positive and neg)?

Thanks,

/m/

Bought the S3 and haven't looked back. I don't have OD and don't miss it. Maybe I miss the FW output on the 6412 III a little, but I'll live. Last thing I need in my life is more archived video anyway. I've got Beta stuff going back into the 80s.

The UI and ease-of-use is everything. It costs me more money (the box, the service, one additional Cablecard that is rented, plus TW can't/won't break out the STB fee from my overall package even though I no longer have it), but I thought the overall Comcast experience to be so inferior that it's worth it to me. I'm hoping that I can hang on through SV, Cablecard 2 or M-Card or whatever the hell else TW throws at me in an attempt to make me give up the TiVo.

Things have changed since the last time this question came up about use with no subscription. Before they said it couldn't do repeat recordings, but now it sounds like weekly recordings do work (which is enough repeating for me) . The other thing they said it did was always ask you to setup a subscription. Does it still do that or does it just accept being on it's own :-) Maybe there is a Tivo in my future after all. Thanks for any info.

Things have changed since the last time this question came up about use with no subscription. Before they said it couldn't do repeat recordings, but now it sounds like weekly recordings do work (which is enough repeating for me) . The other thing they said it did was always ask you to setup a subscription. Does it still do that or does it just accept being on it's own :-) Maybe there is a Tivo in my future after all. Thanks for any info.Dunno about the "always ask you to setup subscription" thing. Maybe you should ask a TiVo CSR before you buy one.

Brian,
I'm sorry, I thought you were running without a subscription. Guess we'll have to see
how Heisman makes out with his assuming he goes without a subscription. Not sure what
info I would get from the Tivo CSR since they will want every S3 to have a subscription.

My TiVo gets subscription data for most channels, but I have no subscription data for my HD channels (clear QAM). So I'm very familiar with the functionality of the TiVo on channels for which it has no guide data. Turning off the guide completely would naturally impart this reduced functionality to all channels. The thing I don't know is whether the TiVo would nag you if it doesn't have any guide data.

As I said before...I think the guide data is very much central to the TiVo experience, and I wouldn't recommend running without it (unless you have reasonably low expectations). I'm not at all happy with the lack of guide data on my HD channels, but believe this will get corrected by TiVo in the future.

Brian,
I agree the guide data would be great. The problem is it is overkill for what I need. I don't have cable and record about 4 programs a week that I'm not home to watch live. 4 weekly programs would do it for me. Now if I had cable, more time :-) I could justify the guide data subscription.

He's not looking for the "tivo experience", he just wants some basic functionality, which it sounds like he can achieve with a subscription-less Tivo. I wish people would stop with the near-desperate "love me! love me!... why don't you love me?? I know you would love me if you only gave me half a chance!!" Tivo advocacy.

Difficult as it might be for some of us to comprehend, there are a few people out there who do not need or care enough about the benefits they could be deriving from expanded Tivo functionality, or maybe they would end up appreciating the added features if given first hand exposure, but they can't justify the expense at the moment and don't want to be tempted. Ignorance can mean pocketbook bliss. Stay strong, woodchuck22. ;)

Well, if he's not looking for the full-on TiVo deal, perhaps the HD HomeRun would fit the bill. LINK (http://www.9thtee.com/hdhomerun.htm). It's not a standalone replacement for the S3, per se, but it does handle all of the recording that he requires. Pump that video through an HTPC, media extender, or computer, and he'd be good to go for about 1/3 to 1/4 the cost of the S3.

....I wish people would stop with the near-desperate "love me! love me!... why don't you love me?? I know you would love me if you only gave me half a chance!!" Tivo advocacy.... Oh, give me a break :eek: quit sniffing the whiteout.

Difficult as it might be for some of us to comprehend, there are a few people out there who do not need or care enough about the benefits they could be deriving from expanded Tivo functionality, or maybe they would end up appreciating the added features if given first hand exposure, but they can't justify the expense at the moment and don't want to be tempted. Ignorance can mean pocketbook bliss. Stay strong, woodchuck22. ;)However, if those options aren't available then they're not available, eh? That's often the context of the "you will really like TiVo!" discussions: If you don't want to pay a monthly subscription fee, then right now there are very few options -- why? Because too few customers want such options, and are willing to pay enough for them to justify the expense of providing them.

Doesn't a pair of cablecards cost something like $5/month?

They say I need to upgrade beyond basic cable ($14.95) to get a cable card. The next step up is standard cable ($29.95). Are they jerking me around? My service provider is Comcast.

It depends on the cable company -- they surely could structure their services that way if they wished.

They say I need to upgrade beyond basic cable ($14.95) to get a cable card. The next step up is standard cable ($29.95). Are they jerking me around? My service provider is Comcast.CableCard is only really needed for encrypted content. With the basic cable that you have, all the channels are probably analog (or digital simulcast of the same) and not encrypted. A S3 should receive the HD rebroadcast locals without the card as well because they should not be encrypted. However, I don't know how well the S3 maps the HD locals without the channel mapping data provided by the CableCard.

- Mike

CableCard is only really needed for encrypted content. With the basic cable that you have, all the channels are probably analog (or digital simulcast of the same) and not encrypted. A S3 should receive the HD rebroadcast locals without the card as well because they should not be encrypted. However, I don't know how well the S3 maps the HD locals without the channel mapping data provided by the CableCard.

Right, but regardless, I need a CableCard in order to get the guide information. With the Sony it's very simple - for the channels that need to be remapped, you just tell the guide which channel in the guide information maps to which QAM channel (623 -> 87.1). I guess this is why TiVo needs the CableCard? The guide isn't encrypted, but it needs the CableCard to map the channel numbers called out in the guide to the real QAM channel?

it needs the CableCard to map the channel numbers called out in the guide to the real QAM channel?Yes, exactly. Many people are waiting/hoping for TiVo to fix this so that CableCARDs are not needed in order to provide guide data for unencrypted digital cable channels.

There are two problems with a manual mapping (although I think it should be made possible anyway!):

1) It violates TiVo's KISS philosophy
2) The cable company can move around digital channels any time they feel like it.

1) It violates TiVo's KISS philosophy
2) The cable company can move around digital channels any time they feel like it.There are at least 3 different methods TiVo could use to enable guide data for unencrypted digital cable channels in the absence of CableCARDs. It does not have to require any user intervention, nor be susceptible to QAM frequency remapping:

Automatically provide OTA guide data to digital cable channels that (via PSIP) are mapped to OTA channel numbers. For example, if channel 6.1 is a valid local OTA channel number when received via antenna, and channel 6.1 is received over digital cable (as mapped by PSIP data), then provide the guide data of the former to the latter. This is the simplest solution. It relies on the cable company to provide accurate PSIP data, which they are federally mandated to do by the FCC. It would not be affected by reassignments of QAM frequencies by the cable company. It would require no user interaction. It would require no changes to Tribune-supplied programming data.
Allow users to manually modify the channel map, indicating the mapping between received channel number and cable-assigned channel number for the handful of local OTA rebroadcasted channels. This is the most flexible option. If the cable company includes PSIP data as it is federally mandated to do, then the channel mapping (from OTA channel number to cable-assigned channel number) would not be affected by QAM frequency changes. Otherwise it would be subject to QAM frequency changes, but this generally occurs infrequently enough that it wouldn’t be a problem for most customers, and the TiVo could clearly indicate a “proceed-at-your-own-risk” disclaimer of some sort. It should be noted that TiVo is not the first company to tackle this problem, and products like the Sony DHG-HDD250 HD-DVR allowed users to manually map channel numbers.
Update Tribune-supplied programming data to include channels received in-the-clear over cable, whether they be QAM frequencies (if no PSIP) or OTA-equivalent channel numbers (where PSIP is available). This solution would require no user interaction, but might require some work on Tribune’s side.

I have communicated all of this to TiVo management.

There are at least 3 different methods TiVo could use to enable guide data for unencrypted digital cable channels in the absence of CableCARDs. It does not have to require any user intervention, nor be susceptible to QAM frequency remapping:

Automatically provide OTA guide data to digital cable channels that (via PSIP) are mapped to OTA channel numbers. For example, if channel 6.1 is a valid local OTA channel number when received via antenna, and channel 6.1 is received over digital cable (as mapped by PSIP data), then provide the guide data of the former to the latter. This is the simplest solution. It relies on the cable company to provide accurate PSIP data, which they are federally mandated to do by the FCC. It would not be affected by reassignments of QAM frequencies by the cable company. It would require no user interaction. It would require no changes to Tribune-supplied programming data.

I have communicated all of this to TiVo management.
I think you misunderstand the FCC requirement on cable operators. They are required to pass some PSIP data, but they are not by any means required to make them map to OTA channel numbers, nor even pass all of the PSIP tables. One of the PSIP tables they are required to carry does indeed contain the station's FCC assigned ID, but the box would have to rescan on a regular basis to pick up channel moves.

It would have been nice if cable had been forced to pass the PSIP data in its entirety except for the modifications necessary to direct the receiver at the proper QAM channel/subchannel. That way any QAM tuner would get the OTA channel numbers. The way it is now, it almost defeats the purpose of the FCC's requirement to send the broadcast nets in the clear.

In Tulsa, one station is 0-719, and 719 is the cable channel, one is 8-1, which is the correct OTA channel number, while the other three clear QAM HD channels are 73-2, 79-1, and 79-2. It's a combination of all three of your scenarios.

The real problem is the FCC's refusal to require that the cable companies carry all of the PSIP data, instead only requiring that they carry bits and pieces.

They are required to pass some PSIP data, but they are not by any means required to make them map to OTA channel numbersFrom FCC 76.640:
For each digital transport stream that includes one or more services carried in-the-clear, such transport stream shall include virtual channel data in-band in the form of ATSC A/65B [...] when available from the content provider.Note this says that cable must carry ATSC (broadcast) format PSIP data. Regarding minimum content of such data:
(D) Each channel shall be identified by a one- or two-part channel number and a textual channel name

It would have been nice if cable had been forced to pass the PSIP data in its entirety except for the modifications necessary to direct the receiver at the proper QAM channel/subchannel.Not sure what you are proposing here...PSIP is in-band data, meaning you have to tune to the correct QAM frequency first in order to get the PSIP data.
In Tulsa, one station is 0-719, and 719 is the cable channel, one is 8-1, which is the correct OTA channel number, while the other three clear QAM HD channels are 73-2, 79-1, and 79-2.Certainly these systems are still being worked out in some cases. If the PSIP data is not provided by the broadcaster in their feed to the MSO, or the broadcaster's PSIP data is malformed, then the MSO is not required to carry it.
The real problem is the FCC's refusal to require that the cable companies carry all of the PSIP data, instead only requiring that they carry bits and pieces.The only PSIP data that is "optional" and subject to bitrate cap relates to event tables (upcoming programming data). The virtual channel number is not optional.

forgive me for asking what are probably repeat questions:

I am looking at the Tivo series 3 to replace my Comcast 8300 box (which I hate)

however I heard the Tivo 3 was slow changing channels as opposed to the 8300

any comments on this? are most folks happy with the Tivo?

[I don't buy On Demand movies and will install 2 cablecards which are free from Comcast]

I use HR10 Tivos and love them