Gosh -- not sure even TiVo is worth that, especially given how much hassle people STILL have getting CableCards to work with it.

Bull pucky. The cable card situation is not nearly as problematic as you say and it has got much better over the past 6 months as more cable cards are installed.

I had a problem with my CABLE COMPANY not sending me correct signals for my cable card to recive but that was their problem and I got it fixed.

Here's the bottom line. If you have a pos DVR like I had with the SA 8300 and it is missing recordings, making 5-7 partial recordings, then it is not doing it's job. I've had the S3 since September and I know of two partial recordings, one that happened when I had a sudden reboot and the other when EBS came into play. You compare that to the problems that pos SA 8300 was giving me and it was worth every penny to have a reliable DVR. Constant picutre picture break ups sound drops...all of which I didn't experience with the SA 8300. IMHO it was worth every penny of the 800 bucks I spent on it just to relieve my frustration and if wasn't cheaper now I'd still do it again.

Also I had the Maxtor Quickview 500 attatched to the SA 8300 and it made my recording problems worst. Since I attatched my Seagate 500gb esata to my S3, no problems.

It's not just cost. It's quality. YMMV but the SA 8300 was horrible. My happiest moment was when I attached that thing to the bumper of my car and dragged it back to the cable company. :)

Bull pucky. The cable card situation is not nearly as problematic as you say The situation is more problematic than you say.

I had a problem with my CABLE COMPANY not sending me correct signals for my cable card to recive but that was their problem and I got it fixed.Still it required work on the part of the customer, and that has an associated cost.

Here's the bottom line.The bottom line is that different people will have different perspectives, and right now, even at $606 - $200 rebate, the TiVo Series 3 is still not worth it for most American viewers.

The Tivo Series 3 may not be worth it for most American viewers, but for the group of people who are enjoying HDTV, it's not hard to justify the cost. You can use the "I'm saving the cost of a Cable Co. DVR," "I'll save $20 every time I don't have to buy the HD-DVD or Blu-ray disk of a movie I can record in HD on my Tivo," and so on.

I've had mine for a month, and couldn't be happier. Had zero issues with cable card installation from Comcast. Just one person's experience, but if your A/V budget can handle it, I'd recommend the Series 3 without reservation.

Indeed, and the more of a TV enthusiast you are, the more value you can get from it.

Why is cost even an issue when discussing high end electronics? Don't you expect to pay more? It's not exactly a Wal-Mart special.

Why is cost even an issue when discussing high end electronics? Don't you expect to pay more? It's not exactly a Wal-Mart special.

Good question. Even though I could afford it, I couldn't "justify" it until the $499 special - so I got the wireless, 3 yr plan and the Series 3 for about the cost of the unit alone a few months ago.

Each person has their own cost/value curve.

I didn't see anything about an eSATA cable, only USB. If it doesn't take an eSATAII cable, then you would have to buy an adapter eSATAII to USB. I'd lookd for something else.

so there are eSATA drives that take the eSATAII cable, and other eSATA drives that may only take an eSATAI cable? If so, how do you determine that when shopping for one? .. I thought as long as the drive is designated as eSATA as this one is, then you're good to go.

Regardless of that, good pt. about the lack of stated included eSATA cable.

so there are eSATA drives that take the eSATAII cable, and other eSATA drives that may only take an eSATAI cable? If so, how do you determine that when shopping for one? .. I thought as long as the drive is designated as eSATA as this one is, then you're good to go.

Regardless of that, good pt. about the lack of stated included eSATA cable.


The eSATA I cable is a different configuration and doesn't quite fit properly.

How can you avoid this when buying? I did it by taking my cable from my old eSATA, the Maxtor Quickview which I knew was eSATAII and brought it do the store. There I showed the sales person what I wanted and she hooked me up with a drive and enclosure (which had it's own cable and was the same one only shorter) for under 200 bucks (500GB). So if you go to a store or just click on one of the links provided previously you can find one, Fry's is good, Media Center, and Comp USA.

alright, thanks for the info. Now, I'll wait for a killer deal to come along.

esata uses the Type I (Capital i not a Roman 1) end connector and can be used with an esata drive/enclosure that is Sata I (Roman 1) or Sata II (Roman 2).

Sata I (1) 150 Gb/sec and Sata II (2) 300 Gb/sec usually refer to the speed capabilities of the hardware.

the other standard sata cable uses the Type L connector end, usually used and seen on the hard drives and motherboard connections.

you can also get a Type L (from a regular Sata drive/enclosure) to Type I (to the S3) conversion cable.

here's a link to a pic of a cable with both type ends.
http://www.cooldrives.com/sata-cables-internal-to-external.html

Sheesh - I take a short self-imposed forum break, and bicker is still (falsely) riling people up claiming CableCards are unreliable. :p

Tell that to the Comcast guy who, over the phone, in around 25 seconds, reinitialized mine because my CineMAX channels (which I added after initially getting the Cards installed) had never shown up on the S3.

25. S.E.C.O.N.D.S.

And then he said I should go into the "test channels" menu and see if I now had CineMAX. Rarely do I rave about GOOD cable service, but this was one deserving occasion. He also upgraded my upload bandwidth for Cable - I'm now on the 8M/768 package, and occasionally see substantially higher speeds with SpeedBoost.

Sorry, Verizon FiOS - I don't need you - I have robust Comcast Cable!

For those waiting for a 'Killer' eSATA deal, just get the 750GB eSATA Seagate (5 year warranty, low noise, aluminium case unlike many other plastic/overheating enclosures, cable NOT included - get a nice one) for $199.99 at Best Buy this week!

Heck - if I had noticed this early during the weekend, I would have used my 12% discount coupon!

Sheesh - I take a short self-imposed forum break, and bicker is still (falsely) riling people up claiming CableCards are unreliable. :p

Tell that to the Comcast guy who, over the phone, in around 25 seconds, reinitialized mine because my CineMAX channels (which I added after initially getting the Cards installed) had never shown up on the S3.
Unaccustomed though I am to taking up for the bickering biker1, I think he may have a point here, albeit a weak one. The problem with CableCARDs is that they are often hard to configure and keep properly configured. In fact your post proves the point: You had a card glitch, which required a call to your cable company’s tech support staff to fix. It happens farily frequently and there is no denying it.

All of that said, I think that bicker tends to be hysterical where CableCARDs are concerned. Although configuration is often a pain in the neck, the core truth is that cards can be and usually are properly configured in the end and, as you observed, even when the cards’ configuration goes south it is correctable. In short, the possibility of CableCARD glitches is an unconvincing rationale for not buying an S3.

FYI:

For those tempted by the $200 rebate, here is how my transaction went down.

After several attempts, I got Best Buy to price match Costco.com's price of $599. After the (Tivo Father's Day) rebate that brings the price to $399. I signed up for three years of service ($8.31 per month). I called Comcast and they now have protocol in place for Tivo S3s. The first cablecard is free and the second one is $1.50 per month.

I save $11.95 a month by returning Comcast's POS dvr.

Also, I had a $150 Best Buy gift certificate. So, I only end up paying $250 for the S3.

Hopefully, the rebate goes through without a hitch.

You mean $6 extra. I've always said that at $400 the S3 is worth it, but your calculations are making me think that it needs to be $350 instead. The reason is that your computations are off-target in a few ways.

First of all, over six years, it is very possible that you'll experience a serious problem with the device. After the 90 day warranty period, some problems could cost hundreds of dollars to fix and others could render the device totally useless. Indeed, you may not have a problem, so assigning a cost to the potential is complicated... I'd figure $150 is a good guess. So add that to your total cost.

Also, six years is a bit too long to figure. I have had three TiVos (four including the Series 3 that I sent back because TiVo wouldn't help me get Comcast to get it working). I put my Series 1 into service in 2001. It became nothing more than a back-up after I put my first Series 2 into service in November 2003. By June 2006 even my first Series 2 became a backup for Comcast's Motorola DVR. So these things seem to have a significant-use lifespan of about two or three years.

So let's do your math again:

$406 - purchase price after rebate
$299 - service for three years
$79 - extended warranty (better than paying $150 for repairs)
$108 - CableCard rental for three years
-------
$892

minus $11 per month for the cable company DVR
= $13.78 extra per month

Gosh -- not sure even TiVo is worth that, especially given how much hassle people STILL have getting CableCards to work with it.

why would anyone pay $79 for ext. warranty? In the car business, it's called a scam.
Cable card rental is free for the 1st card, $1.50 for the 2nd = $54 for 3 years.
And best of all, you no longer have to get on the Comcast DVR every day and manage your HD recordings, by watching/deleting them, because the useless POS only holds 11 hrs of HD. That's less than 2 days of HD golf coverage.

All of that said, I think that bicker tends to be hysterical where CableCARDs are concerned. Although configuration is often a pain in the neck, the core truth is that cards can be and usually are properly configured in the end and, as you observed, even when the cards’ configuration goes south it is correctable. In short, the possibility of CableCARD glitches is an unconvincing rationale for not buying an S3.I'm not "hysterical" and I never said that the "glitches" you refer to were the ONLY rationale for not buying an S3 -- they are just one factor, among several others. The most notable factor, in my messages, has always been the up-front price. With the recent price decreases, that's moderated, a bit, but still ~$400 plus the cost of service is not petty cash, and is still higher than even I'm willing to pay, given other factors, including the "glitches", loss of VOD, the S3's inability to address SDV should it be introduced, the fact that it locks us into cable/doesn't work with satellite services, the costs of any needed repair, etc. All things that we don't have to worry about to anywhere near the same extent, by using cable company issued equipment. (However, I did come close to repurchasing it again, just for clear-signal QAM use, with the recent rebate offer, but have still thought better of the idea.)

why would anyone pay $79 for ext. warranty? In the car business, it's called a scam.There is a cost associated with having to repair the device, and that has to be accounted for in any rational decision to purchase the device. We can argue for days about what that amount should be.

Cable card rental is free for the 1st card, $1.50 for the 2nd = $54 for 3 years.The numbers for that, which I used, are accurate in many localities.

And best of all, you no longer have to get on the Comcast DVR every day and manage your HD recordings, by watching/deleting them, because the useless POS only holds 11 hrs of HD. That's less than 2 days of HD golf coverage.That's a qualitative aspect of the decision. Many people feel that that advantage is pretty minor, compared to the factors I raised.

I'm not "hysterical" and I never said that the "glitches" you refer to were the ONLY rationale for not buying an S3 -- they are just one factor, among several others. The most notable factor, in my messages, has always been the up-front price. With the recent price decreases, that's moderated, a bit, but still ~$400 plus the cost of service is not petty cash, and is still higher than even I'm willing to pay, given other factors, including the "glitches", loss of VOD, the S3's inability to address SDV should it be introduced, the fact that it locks us into cable/doesn't work with satellite services, the costs of any needed repair, etc. All things that we don't have to worry about to anywhere near the same extent, by using cable company issued equipment. (However, I did come close to repurchasing it again, just for clear-signal QAM use, with the recent rebate offer, but have still thought better of the idea.)


The cost of the S3 is relative to your frustration level. If you were as frustrated as I was about the SA 8300 perhaps you would understand why I gladly shelled out 800.00 when it first came out. Sure the TiVo interface is far superior then the SA 8300 but I bought because simply the SA 8300 did not work. Period. I went through 3 of them in 2 years time.

I would have liked to have paid the lower prices available now but then I would have missed 3-4 shows per week throughout the entire season. Sorry, I wanted reliability and the S3 provides that in every way.

i'll buy few s3 boxes when it's free to record & download guides.

i'll likely to pay per use for premium features.

meantimes stay away from s3.

why would anyone pay $79 for ext. warranty? In the car business, it's called a scam.Cable card rental is free for the 1st card, $1.50 for the 2nd = $54 for 3 years.And best of all, you no longer have to get on the Comcast DVR every day and manage your HD recordings, by watching/deleting them, because the useless POS only holds 11 hrs of HD...I agree on all counts which is why I bought a Series3 TIVO last Sunday. Here's the math breakdown that I see:

$377 Purchase Price from Amazon with rebates:
$299 3 Years TIVO Service
$ 54 3 Years Cable Card
$730 Subtotal
$432 Minus 3 Years of DVR Rental
$298 Total difference between Comcast DVR and TIVO Series 3 ($8.27 a month)

8 dollars a month to upgrade from the Comcast box to a Series3 TIVO is worth it considering everything that TIVO brings to the table.

There is a cost associated with having to repair the device, and that has to be accounted for in any rational decision to purchase the device. We can argue for days about what that amount should be.



For the $79 extended warranty quoted earlier, one should consider buying at Costco. A membership is less than $79 and you have lifetime warranty.

"For the $79 extended warranty quoted earlier, one should consider buying at Costco. A membership is less than $79 and you have lifetime warranty. " great to know.
Thanks

S3 owners:

I just recently purchased one from Best Buy. Do you recommend getting their 4 year warranty for $99?

So far - so good here. (2yrs) I don't really see what could go wrong with it, get it on a decent surge protector or UPS and you should be fine.

i'll buy few s3 boxes when it's free to record & download guides.

i'll likely to pay per use for premium features.

meantimes stay away from s3.

And your name is "videophile.?" :confused:

For the $79 extended warranty quoted earlier, one should consider buying at Costco. A membership is less than $79 and you have lifetime warranty.

If I'd have been aware of that at the time of my purchase I probably would have done that and I encourage others to do the same. However at the time of my purchase S3's first of all were not available at Costco and I wanted a warranty.

I paid 69.00 for a 3 year warranty from Circuit City. I usually don't buy extended warranties but I felt in this case I was making the right move. Maybe in retrospect it may not have been. But if my hard drive crashes, fan breaks or anything else happens I know I can get it fixed/replaced.

Anybody have info on this Tivo S3 "Lite"? Since it appears to be already crippled v S2 features, I'm not sure how you could get much more lite beyond a smaller hard drive (???).

"Whatever, the real news comes in the form of the Series 3 Lite -- a "lower priced" HD offering targeting a wider audience when it's released sometime "later this year." "

http://www.engadget.com/2007/05/31/tivo-announces-q1-profit-series-3-lite-comcast-motorola-tivo/

Anybody have info on this Tivo S3 "Lite"? Since it appears to be already crippled v S2 features, I'm not sure how you could get much more lite beyond a smaller hard drive (???).

"Whatever, the real news comes in the form of the Series 3 Lite -- a "lower priced" HD offering targeting a wider audience when it's released sometime "later this year." "

http://www.engadget.com/2007/05/31/tivo-announces-q1-profit-series-3-lite-comcast-motorola-tivo/

What exactly do you mean by "crippled" ?

As far as I can tell, the S3 brings a lot of stuff to the table that the S2 doesn't :
- HDTV tuning
- HDTV output & scaling of SD up to HDTV resolutions via component/HDMI
- dual tuners capable of receiving encrypted content via CableCard
- eSATA for easy and warranty preserving drive expansion

The only things the S3 can't do (yet) :
- TiVo To Go (I still can't figure out why someone would want to watch TV on a computer)
- TiVo To Come Back (I want this BIG TIME)
- MRV

If I'd have been aware of that at the time of my purchase I probably would have done that and I encourage others to do the same. However at the time of my purchase S3's first of all were not available at Costco and I wanted a warranty.

I paid 69.00 for a 3 year warranty from Circuit City. I usually don't buy extended warranties but I felt in this case I was making the right move. Maybe in retrospect it may not have been. But if my hard drive crashes, fan breaks or anything else happens I know I can get it fixed/replaced.

It was your only option at the time and I agree that the extended warrenty was a good decision, a hard drive replacement alone would probably cost three times the price of the warranty. I paid the sales tax to order from Costco vs Amazon, so I guess that was my extended warranty - $37.50. Having said that, with a Costco membership at $50 plus paying sales tax, buying from an e-tailer without sales tax and shipping, and with the extended warranty sounds less expensive than buying a Costco membership just to purchase an S3. Should have done the math before I brought it up in the first place.

What exactly do you mean by "crippled" ?
The only things the S3 can't do (yet) :
- TiVo To Go (I still can't figure out why someone would want to watch TV on a computer)
- TiVo To Come Back (I want this BIG TIME)
- MRV
"TiVo To Go" is not only used for viewing recorded content on your computer, but there are freeware programs that let you save the TiVo To Go downloaded programs from the S2 units as standard unencrypted SD MPEG2 files on your computer for burning to DVD... the key word being "S2" units.
The fact that "TiVo To Go" is missing from the hi-def S3 is huge!
This is one feature that may never get "turned on" due to the Hollywood Studios legal departments... God forbid consumers download -even unencrypted local channel- HD content from their S3 TiVo.
MVR -multi-room content sharing between S3 TiVo's in the same home- may also never get the nod either as the powers that be (CableLabs) fear that somehow the criminals... er... consumers will somehow hack & copy the HD stream between the two units. The only reason eSATA is enabled on the S3 is because it's considered "secure" by CableLabs and is available for other cable co issued HD DVR's.

"TiVo To Go" is not only used for viewing recorded content on your computer, but there are freeware programs that let you save the TiVo To Go downloaded programs from the S2 units as standard unencrypted SD MPEG2 files on your computer for burning to DVD... the key word being "S2" units.
The fact that "TiVo To Go" is missing from the hi-def S3 is huge!
This is one feature that may never get "turned on" due to the Hollywood Studios legal departments... God forbid consumers download -even unencrypted local channel- HD content from their S3 TiVo.
MVR -multi-room content sharing between S3 TiVo's in the same home- may also never get the nod either as the powers that be (CableLabs) fear that somehow the criminals... er... consumers will somehow hack & copy the HD stream between the two units. The only reason eSATA is enabled on the S3 is because it's considered "secure" by CableLabs and is available for other cable co issued HD DVR's.

Good luck burning an HDTV program of any significant length to a DVD.

We haven't seen any indication (positive, negative or otherwise) from TiVo or CableLabs about the S3's eSATA implementation. All we have is a backdoor that was probably used internally by TiVo to test the eSATA solution getting out into the public. CableLabs did relax their external storage requirements recently, but that was not directed at TiVo, nor Moto or SA since they've had eSATA working off of their boxes for a while now.

Good luck burning an HDTV program of any significant length to a DVD.

We haven't seen any indication (positive, negative or otherwise) from TiVo or CableLabs about the S3's eSATA implementation. All we have is a backdoor that was probably used internally by TiVo to test the eSATA solution getting out into the public. CableLabs did relax their external storage requirements recently, but that was not directed at TiVo, nor Moto or SA since they've had eSATA working off of their boxes for a while now.

At the last CES in Las Vegas a TiVo VP was quoted that they are indeed working on TiVo to go and MRV for the S3 in "some form". That may mean that it won't be available for certain HD channels or perhaps none at all. But it is by no means decided, dead, or anything else.

As far as eSATA goes you can put that in the same category as eSATA and the SA 8300. Call your cable company and ask if the SA 8300 supports eSATA. They will tell you it doesn't, but of course it works. Also remember that the 30 second skip and tick, a very popular TiVo feature is also not supported by TiVo.

The cost of the S3 is relative to your frustration level. Absolutely, and the frustration with getting the CableCards to work in the S3 was what caused me to return the one I purchased last year. By contrast, I don't have much frustration with the Motorola 3416 I'm current using.

Having said that, at the current price-point, the S3 is very attractive, I can imagine. Part of the calculation for me, that I haven't factored in until now, was that I'm currently paying $6.95 per month for a S2. Of course, the S2 doesn't receive encrypted channels -- only analog. The S3 could do that and also receive the 17 unencrypted local digital channels we have offered to us here. And all I'd pay extra is the $400 equipment price ($600-$200) plus the $299 for a three year service commitment. Give that I'm paying the $6.95 per month already, and intend to continue to do so until at least February 2009, about half the the three year service commitment is already covered by my current costs. And that's before I even factor in CableCards... I could just do without them and lose nothing compared to my S2, and gain the unencrypted digitals.

So what I'm personally looking at is a $550 extra outlay to switch from my S2 to an S3. That's close to my realm of reasonability... I'm just not sure which side of the line it comes down on.

At the last CES in Las Vegas a TiVo VP was quoted that they are indeed working on TiVo to go and MRV for the S3 in "some form". That may mean that it won't be available for certain HD channels or perhaps none at all. But it is by no means decided, dead, or anything else.

As far as eSATA goes you can put that in the same category as eSATA and the SA 8300. Call your cable company and ask if the SA 8300 supports eSATA. They will tell you it doesn't, but of course it works. Also remember that the 30 second skip and tick, a very popular TiVo feature is also not supported by TiVo.

Sure, you can add a bunch of S3-specific stuff to the list of "unsupported" features that TiVo's had for quite some time (both past and present).

Oh, by no means did I mean to infer that TTG/TTCB/MRV weren't going to happen. That's why I put the "(not yet)" disclaimer in my previous list. I fully expect them to enable some form of transfer capability to the S3. How crippled it is depends upon how much they think they can get away with without too much bitching from the CableLabs guys. It may end up being only analog-originated (no digital, either SD or HD) content being able to be transferred off of the box, which would kinda suck.

And that's before I even factor in CableCards... I could just do without them and lose nothing compared to my S2, and gain the unencrypted digitals. Y'know... it's been quite a few months now, so I don't remember -- is this true? Without CableCards, can the S3 find unencrypted digitals? I think that it cannot, and I know there is no manual mapping available.

--
Found it -- it can find the unencrypted digitals, but the Guide Data cannot be used with them.

Oh, by no means did I mean to infer that TTG/TTCB/MRV weren't going to happen. That's why I put the "(not yet)" disclaimer in my previous list. I fully expect them to enable some form of transfer capability to the S3. How crippled it is depends upon how much they think they can get away with without too much bitching from the CableLabs guys. It may end up being only analog-originated (no digital, either SD or HD) content being able to be transferred off of the box, which would kinda suck.
Well, here's the rub for me (and I guess I'm kind of down on TiVo for not fighting harder against CableLabs)...
I can currently record/save/author and burn to DVD- all the pristine 720p and 1080i unencrypted content I desire to capture from cable with my USB-HD capture device attached to my $350 HTPC. I can record and download to my HTPC via firewire- all the encrypted 720p and 1080i HD channels I pay for and record to my Cablevision owned SA8300HD DVR.
So in essence I can already capture/save/author and burn to DVD- both encrypted and unencrypted HD content from cable already without a TiVo S3.
Can someone explain exactly why the S3 has been singled out for "special treatment" from CableLabs concerning downloading and transferring (especially unencrypted) HD content where currently other devices are allowed to perform these tasks without restrictions?

So in essence I can already capture/save/author and burn to DVD- both encrypted and unencrypted HD content from cable already without a TiVo S3.
Can someone explain exactly why the S3 has been singled out for "special treatment" from CableLabs concerning downloading and transferring (especially unencrypted) HD content where currently other devices are allowed to perform these tasks without restrictions?

I'll keep this real simple. First, the S3 does not have a firewire like the SA 8300. Second the S3 uses CableCards, the SA 8300 doesn't. CableLabs has no say over the SA 8300.

But starting I think either June or July 1 cable companies have to issue boxes with cable cards. Then they will be under the same rules that TiVo is.

Oh, by no means did I mean to infer that TTG/TTCB/MRV weren't going to happen. That's why I put the "(not yet)" disclaimer in my previous list. I fully expect them to enable some form of transfer capability to the S3. How crippled it is depends upon how much they think they can get away with without too much bitching from the CableLabs guys. It may end up being only analog-originated (no digital, either SD or HD) content being able to be transferred off of the box, which would kinda suck.

I apologize, I really wasn't delivering that part of my comment to your response. I just wanted to address the eSATA thing first and followed up with the other comment as a general response to someone else who had previously questioned if TTG etc. would be available. :)

Can someone explain exactly why the S3 has been singled out for "special treatment" from CableLabs concerning downloading and transferring (especially unencrypted) HD content where currently other devices are allowed to perform these tasks without restrictions?

They're warranting extra attention from CableLabs solely due to the CableCARDs, and the access to encrypted content that they provide. TiVo's one of the very few equipment manufacturers that's tried to make a non-trivial device (read : full-fledged DVR, rather than a display only TV) that can store/manipulate protected content. So, it only appears they're getting "special" attention because, in fact, they're the ONLY ones getting the attention because of the type of product they're trying to sell.

Take a look at what the PC industry is just starting to grapple with now with Vista and the external CableCARD tuning devices. You thought the S3 was expensive ? You ain't seen nothing yet. You thought TiVo's DRM was bad ? You ain't seen nothing yet. How's $1500 for starters sound ?

The S3 isn't starting to sound that bad right about now, eh ?

I'll keep this real simple. First, the S3 does not have a firewire like the SA 8300. Second the S3 uses CableCards, the SA 8300 doesn't. CableLabs has no say over the SA 8300.

But starting I think either June or July 1 cable companies have to issue boxes with cable cards. Then they will be under the same rules that TiVo is.

Not quite, Hook. I believe the ruling states that they can only buy equipment from manufacturers that includes non-integrated security functions (a.k.a. CableCARD) after July 1. The gear that they've already got in hard that has integrated security is effectively grandfathered, and can still be rented to consumers for use.

Well, by default crippled means something you cannot do. Not something you can.

Everything you listed here are things the S3 can do. In fact they are currnetly it's selling points:
- HDTV tuning
- HDTV output & scaling of SD up to HDTV resolutions via component/HDMI
- dual tuners capable of receiving encrypted content via CableCard
- eSATA for easy and warranty preserving drive expansion


Everything you listed here are things it cannot do. Read, crippled. Fairly, you point out there is a qualification of "yet", but I find this hard to swallow given the fact it has been out for 6 months.


The only things the S3 can't do (yet) :
- TiVo To Go (I still can't figure out why someone would want to watch TV on a computer)
- TiVo To Come Back (I want this BIG TIME)
- MRV

I'm willing to bet the MVR will be limited to S3 to S3 boxes. This may not be as bad as it sounds depending on how these "S3 Lite" boxes turn out. Could simply be a HD Viewing Portal and not really a recorder, however that could be a step back for Tivo.

Not quite, Hook. I believe the ruling states that they can only buy equipment from manufacturers that includes non-integrated security functions (a.k.a. CableCARD) after July 1. The gear that they've already got in hard that has integrated security is effectively grandfathered, and can still be rented to consumers for use.

You're absolutely right. But any new equipment has to have the cards. And I've noticed that many people are having trouble getting DVR's and being put on a waiting list so it would appear that what they have in stock in some areas is already in use.

I'm willing to bet the MVR will be limited to S3 to S3 boxes. This may not be as bad as it sounds depending on how these "S3 Lite" boxes turn out. Could simply be a HD Viewing Portal and not really a recorder, however that could be a step back for Tivo.

Well, I don't think that's going to be the case. Now it is true that they may limit MRV HD to S3 to S3 because I don't think the so called "light" boxes will have that feature. But who knows really, it's speculation. In any case the Lite boxes will be capable of recording HD, that's what they are a DVR. And in order for it to compete with cable it will have to be dual tuners. MRV HD content may indeed be only S3 to S3 but so what? Who would want to record something in HD and watch it in SD?

I too have a problem with the word "crippled." There was a time MRV etc didn't exist and I believe that when it first came around you had to pay for it, didn't you? The S3 is capable of MRV etc., it just doesn't work right now. So it's restricted, not crippled.

I'd sure like to find out more info about this S3-Lite model. Primarily if it will handle SDV, and if it has eSATA capability. Given the current $400 price of the S3 and my cable systems lack of HD channels(supposed to be upgraded in the next 12-18 mos which will probably include SDV capability) I'm in a bit of a quandary as to whether to take advantage of that price or not. I'm guessing that the Lite model would not be as low as $400, but if it's SDV safe...who knows...

Well, by default crippled means something you cannot do. Not something you can.

Everything you listed here are things the S3 can do. In fact they are currnetly it's selling points:

Everything you listed here are things it cannot do. Read, crippled. Fairly, you point out there is a qualification of "yet", but I find this hard to swallow given the fact it has been out for 6 months.



No, now you're just changing your argument mid-stream. You didn't say "crippled", you said :

Since it appears to be already crippled v S2 features

Which is blatantly wrong. The S3 (and probably S3 lite) FAR exceed the S2 in terms of features and function. Without a doubt. To say that the S3 is "crippled" simply because it can't do TTG/TTCB/MRV YET (all of which will probably be enabled to some extent in the near future) is ridiculous.

Your argument is comparable to, and bears as much truth as : the Corvette is a "crippled" version of the Sentra because the Sentra has more cup holders.

BTW, It's actually been closer to 9 months since they shipped the first S3's, but then again, that's just another fact that you've gotten wrong.

No, now you're just changing your argument mid-stream. You didn't say "crippled", you said :



Which is blatantly wrong. The S3 (and probably S3 lite) FAR exceed the S2 in terms of features and function. Without a doubt. To say that the S3 is "crippled" simply because it can't do TTG/TTCB/MRV YET (all of which will probably be enabled to some extent in the near future) is ridiculous.

Your argument is comparable to, and bears as much truth as : the Corvette is a "crippled" version of the Sentra because the Sentra has more cup holders.

BTW, It's actually been closer to 9 months since they shipped the first S3's, but then again, that's just another fact that you've gotten wrong.

I did no such thing as change my argument mid-stream. You stated some facts - which I never said were wrong in the first place - and which I also highlighted as good things. It wouldn't even be fair to refer to them as non-crippled since none of the other units have them to begin with!

Also, please keep in mind that your rebuttal focuses on the word "yet". Does the S3 have the feature now? No. Crippled it is then! Can it be fixed/enabled for later use? Likely, but we don't know for sure now. Since the answer right now is no, then the S2 has features that the S3 does not allow the user to take advantage of now. Fact.

Your argument is comparable to, and bears as much truth as : the Corvette is a "crippled" version of the Sentra because the Sentra has more cup holders. Sorry, but that's way off-base. MRV et al are far more important to the TiVo experience than cup-holders are to the driving experience. A more reasonable analogy would be between a personal computer with 3GHz CPU but no network card, versus a personal computer with 1GHz CPU with a network card.

Hi again...

Hey, sorry to jump in the conversation midway, but I have read and read and can't seem to find the answer:

Last time I checked, eSata was not 'turned on' for the S3. Has that changed?

Can I buy an eSata hard drive from any local store, take it home and hook it up to the S3 and immediately have more recording space?

Or do I need a special one, like from Weaknees?

Or do I need do do some procedure to have the S3 recognize it?

And will my two cablecards in the S3 complicate any of this?

Thanks

Sorry, but that's way off-base. MRV et al are far more important to the TiVo experience than cup-holders are to the driving experience.

Respectfully, I disagree. This is an an individual thing not necessarily how everyone feels. If you would have made this statement followed with "IMHO" I wouldn't feel the need to argue this point. I have an HDTV in my bedroom but when I go up there I go to watch a little news and go to sleep, possibly a bit of a late night sports event.

And as far as the second part of your statement I really think that's apples and oranges. I don't see the connection. But then again "cup holders" MRV is not either. :)

Hi again...

Hey, sorry to jump in the conversation midway, but I have read and read and can't seem to find the answer:

Last time I checked, eSata was not 'turned on' for the S3. Has that changed?

Can I buy an eSata hard drive from any local store, take it home and hook it up to the S3 and immediately have more recording space?

Or do I need a special one, like from Weaknees?

Or do I need do do some procedure to have the S3 recognize it?

And will my two cablecards in the S3 complicate any of this?

Thanks
All the questions and answers are at the following link, and yes, it's quick and easy to do and works like a charm.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=350510
Series3 eSATA Drive Expansion: FAQ + Discussion - TiVo Community & Store

Hi again...

Hey, sorry to jump in the conversation midway, but I have read and read and can't seem to find the answer:

Last time I checked, eSata was not 'turned on' for the S3. Has that changed?

Can I buy an eSata hard drive from any local store, take it home and hook it up to the S3 and immediately have more recording space?

Or do I need a special one, like from Weaknees?

Or do I need do do some procedure to have the S3 recognize it?

And will my two cablecards in the S3 complicate any of this?

Thanks

Some folks have discovered a very simple method about how to connect an eSATA drive to their S3 and make it work. There has been no positive/negative acknowledgement of this from TiVo, which sorta fits their past behavior concerning such "underground" user activity. So, while it's not "officially" turned on, a good number of people have successfully connected eSATA drives to their S3.

Yes, you can hook up any number of eSATA drives to your S3 and increase your storage space. It does not need to be a "special" one. The S3 will format the drive when it recognizes that a new drive has been connected to it.

Basically, all you have to do is reboot the S3 and hold the pause button on the remote. At a particular point in time during the boot sequence, a light on the front of the S3 will change colors. At that time, you enter '6' and '2' on the remote. This instructs the S3 to look for the external drive. After that, the S3 takes over, formats the drive, and adds its space to your overall storage capacity. Very simple.

It makes no difference if you have CableCARDs or not.

Thank you both very much...very helpful!

All the questions and answers are at the following link, and yes, it's quick and easy to do and works like a charm.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=350510
Series3 eSATA Drive Expansion: FAQ + Discussion - TiVo Community & Store
I agree that the FAQ and thread to which keenan posted a link is outstanding. I have not yet bought an eSATA drive for my S3 but I am satisfied that the technology works and prices are not out of line. Note that while TiVo has not yet officially sanctioned the addition of eSATA drives, CableLabs has amended its licensing agreement to authorize them.

One more question...

If I buy an eSata drive from Best Buy, will it come with the eSata cable I need?

Or should I be shopping for a particular cable as well? The instructions note it should be an eSata II > sata cable. Is that something that might be too 'hi-tech' for BestBuy to stock?

There's a MicroCenter within 30 minutes of my location...they'll have every cable in the world, I expect.

Thanks again...I appreciate the assist.

It depends which drive you buy.
Read the 1st post in the thread keenan linked you to for recommendations, issues etc. It's updated daily with input from all of the posts in the thread.

Most of the problems associated with failures of certain drives are suspected to be because of poor cables.

One more question...

If I buy an eSata drive from Best Buy, will it come with the eSata cable I need?

Or should I be shopping for a particular cable as well? The instructions note it should be an eSata II > sata cable. Is that something that might be too 'hi-tech' for BestBuy to stock?

There's a MicroCenter within 30 minutes of my location...they'll have every cable in the world, I expect.

Thanks again...I appreciate the assist.


Not necessarily. Some come with just USB cables.

If you go to micro center they will hook you up with the proper equipment. I bought mine from them, a 500 gb Sata HD and an enclosure. It's the enclosure you got to look at to make sure it has the right cable. Mine came with everything and the whole thing cost me less then 200 bucks.

Note that while TiVo has not yet officially sanctioned the addition of eSATA drives, CableLabs has amended its licensing agreement to authorize them.

I don't think the fact that TiVo hasn't given it's "blessing" on eSATA should hold anyone up. Again I point out to the fact that if you have an SA 8300 and you call your cable company and ask if you can use the eSATA they will say no. Of course we all know that's false.

I don't think the fact that TiVo hasn't given it's "blessing" on eSATA should hold anyone up. Again I point out to the fact that if you have an SA 8300 and you call your cable company and ask if you can use the eSATA they will say no. Of course we all know that's false.

I agree, but it's not out of the realm of possibility that TiVo is forced by CableLabs to lock this activity down pronto with a software update.

I'm sure if it was up to TiVo, they'd let it fly just like all of the other user-instigated hacks and upgrades that have come along since Day 1.

However, since TiVo *must* conform to the CableLabs spec (which have admittedly been revised recently), even the slightest transgression would open them up to action from CableLabs.

Not trying to scare monger, just trying to illustrate one possible outcome.

I agree, but it's not out of the realm of possibility that TiVo is forced by CableLabs to lock this activity down pronto with a software update.

I'm sure if it was up to TiVo, they'd let it fly just like all of the other user-instigated hacks and upgrades that have come along since Day 1.

However, since TiVo *must* conform to the CableLabs spec (which have admittedly been revised recently), even the slightest transgression would open them up to action from CableLabs.

Not trying to scare monger, just trying to illustrate one possible outcome.

Understand, but there is two things that I see in the above that I think I can explain.

The first point about cablelabs ordering a TiVo to shut it down is not that feasable. If you go to the thread on the TiVo boards you will see that the person who discovered the way to activate eSATA explains that it would take not only a great deal of money but time as well for TiVo to do this. It's just not that simple as sending out an order "esata=off" or anything like that. Second, calbelabs gave the ok for eSATA to become active and if you read on that (I know you want links but sorry, I don't have them...they are available at TiVo Forum do a search) you will see that there were no stipulations to exactly how this activity was to be opened.

There are some thoughts that a TiVo employee in fact leaked the info the moment cable labs gave the OK. I don't know if that is true, that may just be speculation.

I'm looking at my receipt of when I bought my eSATA and I bought it the day it was announced which was 5/5 (hey, sinco de mayo)! So I really don't think at this point it would benefit TiVo at all to do a shut down on this. More then likely it will be announced formally when they have their very own eSATA that they want to sell specifically for the S3. And at that time they may make it as simple as just plug and play. Although right now it's still pretty simple.

Is it out of the realm of possibility? No, you are correct but it would be one big pia for them to do it an I just don't see it happening.

The first point about cablelabs ordering a TiVo to shut it down is not that feasable. If you go to the thread on the TiVo boards you will see that the person who discovered the way to activate eSATA explains that it would take not only a great deal of money but time as well for TiVo to do this. It's just not that simple as sending out an order "esata=off" or anything like that.


I write (and occasionally ship!) code for a living, so I'm well aware of the intricacies of rolling out new builds to customers. From what I gather (but I could be wrong), the change could be as simple as taking out that jumpstart code from one of the files in the S3's Linux file system, since that's really the entry point to enabling this feature.

[QUOTE=hookbill]Second, CableLabs gave the ok for eSATA to become active and if you read on that (I know you want links but sorry, I don't have them...they are available at TiVo Forum do a search) you will see that there were no stipulations to exactly how this activity was to be opened.

Well, they didn't necessarily say "Screw it! Go ahead guys! eSATA anything you want!". CableLabs relaxed the restrictions concerning eSATA, but certainly didn't issue carte blanche. There are still pre-defined methods on how a licensee can use eSATA with their product.

There are some thoughts that a TiVo employee in fact leaked the info the moment cable labs gave the OK. I don't know if that is true, that may just be speculation.

That was my thought. Either that, or a beta tester.

I'm looking at my receipt of when I bought my eSATA and I bought it the day it was announced which was 5/5 (hey, sinco de mayo)! So I really don't think at this point it would benefit TiVo at all to do a shut down on this. More then likely it will be announced formally when they have their very own eSATA that they want to sell specifically for the S3. And at that time they may make it as simple as just plug and play. Although right now it's still pretty simple.

It's not to TiVo's benefit to lock this down. In fact, it would be detrimental to do so, since they'd be removing a desired feature from their product line. It's not completely up to TiVo to decide, though, if they wish to remain a CableLabs licensee. Gotta play by the rules to stay in the game...

I also don't think that TiVo rolling their own eSATA solution is a very good idea. It made sense to do it with the wireless adapter, since you've gotta deal with USB plug 'n play, and drivers, and encryption performance, and so on and so on...
You don't have any of those issues with the eSATA stuff. It's a very low level interaction between the S3 and the enclosure, where you don't have to deal with any of that crap.

It's debatable if they'd get killed on the pricing of their own eSATA solution. They probably get a nice price from the drive manufacturers, since they ship so many drives, but would probably take a bath on the enclosure itself since the quantities wouldn't be that high.

Respectfully, I disagree. This is an an individual thing not necessarily how everyone feels. We'll have to agree to disagree then -- if you don't have cup-holders in your car, you can BUY cup-holders that clip onto the door or attach to the dash. There is no way to get after-market MRV for a TiVo.

I am not ready to say whether anybody is “right” or “wrong” if they say that the current absence of MRV capability on the S3 is a critical failing. But my personal reaction to this was “So What?” I have only one operating TiVo right now, my S3. Ninety percent of what I watch is in HD, so, even if I had an MRV capable S2, its inability to handle HD content from an S3 or any other source would make MRV meaningless to me. If TiVo ever gets things worked out with CableLabs to enable HD capable MRV on the S3 I’ll think about buying a second one. Until then, I simply don’t care.

...my personal reaction to this was “So What?” I have only one operating TiVo right now, my S3. Ninety percent of what I watch is in HD, so, even if I had an MRV capable S2, its inability to handle HD content from an S3 or any other source would make MRV meaningless to me....I've been sitting on the sidelines watching this conversation with much amusement. Then gwsat finally stated the obvious for most of us (or, at least, for me ;) ).

I've been sitting on the sidelines watching this conversation with much amusement. Then gswat finally stated the obvious for most of us (or, at least, for me ;) ).
Thanks. I seem to have a talent for stating the obvious. Unfortunately, I have a lot more trouble with complex issues. :)

I've been sitting on the sidelines watching this conversation with much amusement. Then gwsat finally stated the obvious for most of us (or, at least, for me ;) ).Yeah, I thought the same thing! I have a vague notion that someday I'll pick up the cost-reduced followon product to the S3 (the S4?) and put that in a bedroom, in which case I'd want to use MRV to pipe HD content between them. That'd be cool. Until then, MRV is not really very interesting on the S3, which is all about HD. How many people own TWO S3s, anyway?

Comcast installed the cablecards today and almost immediately my s3 starting "randomly" restarting. Anyone else have (had) this issue? Should I just exchange it for a new one at Best Buy?

Comcast installed the cablecards today and almost immediately my s3 starting "randomly" restarting. Anyone else have (had) this issue? Should I just exchange it for a new one at Best Buy?

Well documented. They probably moved one of your cards to the wrong socket. Suggestion. Switch cable card from one sot to another.. Then see what happens.

Comcast installed the cablecards today and almost immediately my s3 starting "randomly" restarting. Anyone else have (had) this issue? Should I just exchange it for a new one at Best Buy?

No they did the isntall wrong. They can only accept one activation per card per instructions.

For Christ sake people make them follow the instructions!

Yeah, I thought the same thing! I have a vague notion that someday I'll pick up the cost-reduced followon product to the S3 (the S4?) and put that in a bedroom, in which case I'd want to use MRV to pipe HD content between them. That'd be cool. Until then, MRV is not really very interesting on the S3, which is all about HD. How many people own TWO S3s, anyway?

Many but holds your pants on. Things will dhange

No they did the isntall wrong. They can only accept one activation per card per instructions.

For Christ sake people make them follow the instructions!

They are supposed to come back out Wednesday. What should I tell them? I gave them the instructions when they first showed up but he didn't do anything with them. He just called in all the numbers checked all my channels and left. Everything worked when he left.

Also, I get all my digital channels except HBO. They (Comcast) can't figure out why.

Also, I get all my digital channels except HBO. They (Comcast) can't figure out why.


First, do you get a grey screen when you tune into that channel? If so the problem may be that the "pids" are not matching.

1. Tune to HBO
2. Go to Messages & Settings. Select Diagnostics
3. scroll down until you see PCR PIDS, Audio PIDS, and Video PIDS. If the PCR PIDS and Video PIDS do not match, there's your problem. Show it to the tech and explain that has to match and he needs to contact someone in head end to make it work.

I give much better info when it's not 2:00 and the morning and I haven't had several glasses of wine in me. ;)

Now my cards aren't activated. I hate Comcast.

I don’t know how much of the CableCARD configuration problem that S3 owners suffer is the result of simple ignorance and how much the result of the cable companies’ sneaky institutional hostility to CableCARDs. Either way it’s frustrating. The silver lining in that black cloud is that, if you are patient, you will almost certainly get the cards properly configured – eventually.

The cards are not 'paired' and it is ridiculous that I have to wait for a tech to come out (Wednesday) to have them paired. I should be able to call them and do it over the phone.

I don’t know how much of the CableCARD configuration problem that S3 owners suffer is the result of simple ignorance and how much the result of the cable companies’ sneaky institutional hostility to CableCARDs. Either way it’s frustrating. The silver lining in that black cloud is that, if you are patient, you will almost certainly get the cards properly configured – eventually.

It's been my expereince that the "hostility" lies within the cells of the organizations. Think of the cable company as a group of terrorist. This should be easy for people to do. Within these groups some cells are less hostile then others.

OK, I apologize for that but to an extent it's true. It seems to me that people in headend really want to help. Certain groups of techs are truly willing to learn and help. But right there, within the same local company under a different boss you have the stubborn who refuse to budge and have no interest in helping, therefore you have the famous line "it's a problem with the S3." I recently got switched from one service area out of Macedonia to one in Concord and the last time a Macedonia tech came out he mentioned this to me. He said they do not strive for customer service like we do. First time the guy comes out from Concord I see exactly what he is talking about.

If you're fortunate you get a group of good people. If not you can be put through hell by a bunch of stubborn uninterested idiots.

The cards are not 'paired' and it is ridiculous that I have to wait for a tech to come out (Wednesday) to have them paired. I should be able to call them and do it over the phone.

Boils down to what I said previously. The tech that came out was a moron. You have to have those cards married or else it won't work.

Hook, thanks for the help and input.

Hopefully, I can get them to pair the cards together and that will fix the problem.

They want to run new lines to the TiVo and I know that is unnecessary.

Absolutely, and the frustration with getting the CableCards to work in the S3 was what caused me to return the one I purchased last year. By contrast, I don't have much frustration with the Motorola 3416 I'm current using.

Having said that, at the current price-point, the S3 is very attractive, I can imagine. Part of the calculation for me, that I haven't factored in until now, was that I'm currently paying $6.95 per month for a S2. Of course, the S2 doesn't receive encrypted channels -- only analog. The S3 could do that and also receive the 17 unencrypted local digital channels we have offered to us here. And all I'd pay extra is the $400 equipment price ($600-$200) plus the $299 for a three year service commitment. Give that I'm paying the $6.95 per month already, and intend to continue to do so until at least February 2009, about half the the three year service commitment is already covered by my current costs. And that's before I even factor in CableCards... I could just do without them and lose nothing compared to my S2, and gain the unencrypted digitals.

So what I'm personally looking at is a $550 extra outlay to switch from my S2 to an S3. That's close to my realm of reasonability... I'm just not sure which side of the line it comes down on.

Go to the buy dot com website. They have the TiVo Series 3 for $446.40 after mail-in rebate. Also, talk to TiVo. They told me they would transfer my $6.95 per month for a second box to a new Series 3.

It is available through Amazon.com, for less than that. (Are we allowed to post prices in this forum?)

The cards are not 'paired' and it is ridiculous that I have to wait for a tech to come out (Wednesday) to have them paired. I should be able to call them and do it over the phone.

I had a nightmare of a time getting my two S3's working with cablecards. Between defective cards or only coming with one card or etc..., it took a lot of patience. But once configured properly, the S3 is great. Only advice I can give is be patient, it's worth it.

It's been my expereince that the "hostility" lies within the cells of the organizations. Think of the cable company as a group of terrorist. This should be easy for people to do. Within these groups some cells are less hostile then others.Finally, a quote worthy of my sig! Thanks! :D

The trick to getting off to a good start on CableCARD configuration is to INSIST that the tech who comes to your house FOLLOW TiVo’S SUPPLIED INSTRUCTIONS BY THE NUMBERS – NO IFS ANDS OR BUTS. That was what I did and except for one of the first cards the guy tried to install being dead out of the box the installation went well and I have experienced no serious problems in the nearly five months I have had my S3.

The trick to getting off to a good start on CableCARD configuration is to INSIST that the tech who comes to your house FOLLOW TiVo’S SUPPLIED INSTRUCTIONS BY THE NUMBERS – NO IFS ANDS OR BUTS.
That's what I did as well, in fact the tech never touched the S3, I left him on the phone to feed the info on the screen to the office. Took all of 20 mins and my S3 has worked perfect since Day 1.

I have one remaining/recurring issue with cablecards that is really bothersome:

I keep losing the YES channel (ch 212 in my area from Comcast): it still works on my Comcast S/A stb but not on any of my 6 cards (sometimes audio/no video: sometimes nothing): all the other channels work fine

Calling Comcast is a waste of time

I have a contact within Comcast that can get it corrected for me: takes a couple of days: but it keeps happening: usually on a Friday which means I can't watch ballgames on a cablecard all weekend

I wish I could figure out what is really going on

I never had that issue with FIOS Mark, so it does look like a Comcast issue. My only real complaint with the S3 is the slowness relative to my other DVR.

I never had that issue with FIOS Mark, so it does look like a Comcast issue. My only real complaint with the S3 is the slowness relative to my other DVR.

it is a Comcast head end problem: that is for sure: what gets me is they know how to fix it: but it keeps reverting to no picture (some cards have audio only, some no audio and no video)

when FIOS is offered on my street, this single issue cause me to jump ship (it is not too bad now since the Yankees are not doing too well anyway!)

it is a Comcast head end problem: that is for sure: what gets me is they know how to fix it: but it keeps reverting to no picture (some cards have audio only, some no audio and no video)

when FIOS is offered on my street, this single issue cause me to jump ship (it is not too bad now since the Yankees are not doing too well anyway!)

Keep in mind that FIOS, while it does work with TiVo, is not supported by TiVo.

Have you tried contacting TiVo about this problem? They may be able to reach someone in headend that can resolve it once and for all for you.

Sorry, but I can't let it just go at that. Perhaps the ship you need to jump is off the Yankees and over to the Red Sox. ;)

I'm so glad I came across this thread. I'm about to purchase a Series 3 and have been wondering what's going to need to be done to get Cable Cards setup and working with the Tivo. I already know the dumb lady on the phone wants my HDTV info when she needs the info on the S3 Tivo. But, at least now I know what to look forward to.

I'm so glad I came across this thread. I'm about to purchase a Series 3 and have been wondering what's going to need to be done to get Cable Cards setup and working with the Tivo. I already know the dumb lady on the phone wants my HDTV info when she needs the info on the S3 Tivo. But, at least now I know what to look forward to.

Try to make things easy in advance. That HDTV info is actually available on your S3 it should be in the manual, if not try and find it on the web. I've seen it on a PDF document where all the cablelab devices are listed and TiVo has two, one for each slot.

Also you can call back and simply tell them it's for two hd tv's. Tell them you don't know the numbers the call who installs can find them. Or if you're lucky enough not to have an installer come out then go to your local cable company and pick them up yourselves. Just tell them to make sure they are the same release number.

Another thing and I can't stress this enough is make sure that if someone comes out they do the install exactly like it says on the sheet. If they don't take the time to read the sheet remind them that this is your equipment and you want it installed this way only.

Unfortunately, someone has to come out, I already questioned why that was necessary. But, since the person I spoke to before didn't know what she was talking about, I'll be asking again when I call to play the order for the cards. After reading about the instructions here and how important it was to follow them, I went to Tivo's website and located the instructions so I will have them ready when they come out to do the installation.

Go to the buy dot com website. They have the TiVo Series 3 for $446.40 after mail-in rebate. Also, talk to TiVo. They told me they would transfer my $6.95 per month for a second box to a new Series 3.
They would give you a new activation at $6.95 or they would transfer your existing $6.95 contract. If the latter, you might want to make sure you still qualify for the rebate.

Unfortunately, someone has to come out, I already questioned why that was necessary. But, since the person I spoke to before didn't know what she was talking about, I'll be asking again when I call to play the order for the cards.You might have trouble getting around the truck roll...aside from some test areas (e.g. Charter allows self-installs in NC/Virginia area), almost all CableCARD installs still require a truck roll. Comcast seems the most progressive here...8% of their CableCARD installs are user self-installs. Time Warner is at 4% for self-installs. Cox and Cablevision are the worst at 0% self-installs. But by all means, try...by continually pestering them, more cable companies might open up the self-install route.

Hey guys, I keep reading that TWC is going to a switched digital system by the end of the year. It's going to give TWC increased room for hundreds of HD channels. Will our S3's with cable cards be able to handle this change?

Ben Music

Hey guys, I keep reading that TWC is going to a switched digital system by the end of the year. It's going to give TWC increased room for hundreds of HD channels. Will our S3's with cable cards be able to handle this change?

Ben Music

Only partially, which will effectively render them useless. The S3's operation in an SDV environment will be unreliable, since it won't know which video streams are being sent by the head-end, and won't be able to notify the head-end which video streams it wants to record.

I've posted about this in another forum in their help area but I can't get a response. I've noticed my S3 is getting things on "the to do list" that it shouldn't be getting. I have my S3's season pass set to "first run only" yet it has shown on the list a "Law and Order, SVU" from 1999 and also a "L&O CI" from 2002. In addition it has two episodes of "Rescue Me" upcoming one at 10:00 and another at 11:00 for a week from this Tuesday. Now as most people know FX schedules back to back showings of the same show all the time and I've never seen this before.

Anyone else having problems with this? It's not the worst thing in the world but still the data is there so TiVo should be able to recognize it, it's not a "generic" type of listing.

Hey guys, I keep reading that TWC is going to a switched digital system by the end of the year. It's going to give TWC increased room for hundreds of HD channels. Will our S3's with cable cards be able to handle this change?

Ben Music


Hi Ben.

First TWC in our area isn't going to SDV anytime soon. To many other things they have to straighten out.

Now if and when they do go to SDV it will more likely mean you will either get less HD channels or the same amount you are getting now. That is because SDV uses the two way cable card and the S3's hardware is not capable of using the two way card. It just isn't in the design.

The last I read is that the cable companies are trying to work something out with TiVo so that they can still use the S3 and the SDV, but how or if that will actually happen is anyones guess. It is possible the FCC may step in and stop SDV but no one knows. SDV is already fully developed in Northwest New York and in Austin Texas. People with S3's have said that there are certain channels they can't get and some they can.

SDV doesn't only mean addition of HD channels but digitally encrypted as well. For example you might take a channel that doesn't get that much viewing and put that on SDV so you can have more bandwith for another HD channel. Lot's of directions this can take. Personally, I don't like it but it's probably something we will all have to deal with.

In anycase it's not likely your S3 will become useless as a result of SDV. It just probably won't be beneficial like you seem to think.

First TWC in our area isn't going to SDV anytime soon. To many other things they have to straighten out.

In anycase it's not likely your S3 will become useless as a result of SDV. It just probably won't be beneficial like you seem to think.

Unfortunately its likely both statements are false. TWC Nebraska said they had no plans to go SDV anytime soon. After all, they have the whole Navigator beta-test fiasco to deal with here in Lincoln. Well, unfortunately they went SDV this past week when adding new channels... and they are heavily watched channels, too. It all depends on what channels you watch, but for me the S3 is becoming rapidly useless.

I've posted about this in another forum in their help area but I can't get a response. I've noticed my S3 is getting things on "the to do list" that it shouldn't be getting. I have my S3's season pass set to "first run only" yet it has shown on the list a "Law and Order, SVU" from 1999 and also a "L&O CI" from 2002. In addition it has two episodes of "Rescue Me" upcoming one at 10:00 and another at 11:00 for a week from this Tuesday. Now as most people know FX schedules back to back showings of the same show all the time and I've never seen this before.

Anyone else having problems with this? It's not the worst thing in the world but still the data is there so TiVo should be able to recognize it, it's not a "generic" type of listing.


I also have the two episodes of Rescue Me showing for next week. You're going to have to attribute it to insufficient guide data, which isn't enough to allow the TiVo to figure out of the shows are truly first run, or are repeats.

Hey all does anybody know if you can use a USB (wired or wireless) keyboard with Tivo for faster searching?

SDV uses the two way cable card and the S3's hardware is not capable of using the two way card.Small correction: there will never be a "two way CableCARD". The current version of CableCARD is perfectly compatible with two-way service. It's a common misconception. What you need for 2-way service is the RF transmitter hardware, plus the ability to license a compatible protocol. The S3 has neither.

It is uncertain what form that license & protocol might take in the future. Cable is pushing a system that benefits themselves (OCAP), while the consumer electronics industry is pushing for modifications to OCAP that will benefit themselves (and benefit TiVo).

Hey all does anybody know if you can use a USB (wired or wireless) keyboard with Tivo for faster searching?

Nice idea, but I don't think so. I believe the sole use for the USB ports are to connect network (wired and wireless) adapters.

Well, that's not completely true, you CAN power stuff off the USB ports (USB laptop fan, USB coffee warmer, etc). :)

Unfortunately its likely both statements are false. TWC Nebraska said they had no plans to go SDV anytime soon. After all, they have the whole Navigator beta-test fiasco to deal with here in Lincoln. Well, unfortunately they went SDV this past week when adding new channels... and they are heavily watched channels, too. It all depends on what channels you watch, but for me the S3 is becoming rapidly useless.


The original idea for SDV was to use it on channels that were not heavily watched. I will agree, in areas that have used SDV this has not always been the case.

However Brad I do know what I'm talking about in my area. I don't live in Nebraska, there are no announcements going on but I do have some contacts at TW and right now their biggest problem is trying to figure out how to get old Adlephia and Comcast on the TW page. And it's not just like two companies, Adelphia is more like 5 or 6 different companies all with different cable line ups.

And further I don't make "false" statements. Speak for you're own area, not for mine.

Thank's Hook, and all others for your insite and comments on the SDV issue.

Have any of you TWC insiders been able to find out any news about when the channel upgrade is coming to the former Comcast areas? (Lorain County) I would love to add HDNet and HDNet Movies and any other missing HD to the mix.

Ben Music

Thank's Hook, and all others for your insite and comments on the SDV issue.

Have any of you TWC insiders been able to find out any news about when the channel upgrade is coming to the former Comcast areas? (Lorain County) I would love to add HDNet and HDNet Movies and any other missing HD to the mix.

Ben Music


Since we have both channels over here I see no reason why you won't have it on the West side. As I have said I know they are hoping to "merge" the different line ups and they already have given you ESPN2 recently. You should be getting that soon.

I also have the two episodes of Rescue Me showing for next week. You're going to have to attribute it to insufficient guide data, which isn't enough to allow the TiVo to figure out of the shows are truly first run, or are repeats.

I also have a third episode of Rescue Me showing up now on my guide. All three episodes do have generic info but the date does say 2004. I thought the TiVo picked up on the dates.

OK, I'll just delete those two episodes and see if they don't get getter guide data later. Thanks for your reply. :)

And further I don't make "false" statements. Speak for you're own area, not for mine.
I apologize. I didn't mean to suggest you were making false statements. Just that I've heard many similar things from TWC insiders and enough backstabbing and general horrible activities to make me distrust anything TWC does anywhere. Sorry.

LOL TWC does suck
I'll give you that.
They haven't changed their channel line up in forever.

I also have a third episode of Rescue Me showing up now on my guide. All three episodes do have generic info but the date does say 2004. I thought the TiVo picked up on the dates.

OK, I'll just delete those two episodes and see if they don't get getter guide data later. Thanks for your reply. :)

You don't wanna do that. That's not really the way TiVo works. What you'll end up doing is missing the episodes completely, repeat or not.

The problem is that Tribune (or is it TV Guide, now?) is the company that feeds TiVo the guide data. TiVo takes that info, massages it a bit, and then transmits it down to your box when it "phones home". If the original data doesn't have enough info to determine if the show's new or a repeat, your box will end up recording it. A few shows (Daily Show still?) have this problem. It's usually specific to the show, and not anything wrong with your box.

Let the episodes record, and simply delete the ones you've already seen.

I apologize. I didn't mean to suggest you were making false statements. Just that I've heard many similar things from TWC insiders and enough backstabbing and general horrible activities to make me distrust anything TWC does anywhere. Sorry.

Thank you. I appreciate that.

It's not just TWC. They all are evil. :) Even the satellite companies are evil now.

You don't wanna do that. That's not really the way TiVo works. What you'll end up doing is missing the episodes completely, repeat or not.

The problem is that Tribune (or is it TV Guide, now?) is the company that feeds TiVo the guide data. TiVo takes that info, massages it a bit, and then transmits it down to your box when it "phones home". If the original data doesn't have enough info to determine if the show's new or a repeat, your box will end up recording it. A few shows (Daily Show still?) have this problem. It's usually specific to the show, and not anything wrong with your box.

Let the episodes record, and simply delete the ones you've already seen.

I'll be fine. I still have the 10:00 episode scheduled on my to do list. And fwiw, it's Tribune Media still. :)

Thank you. I appreciate that.

It's not just TWC. They all are evil. :) Even the satellite companies are evil now.

True. However, ya gotta give DirecTV some time to right their ship. Now that Grampa Rupert's out of the mix, they could swing back towards being a customer friendly company. Even the TiVo CEO said recently that there's a chance they COULD GET BACK INTO BED WITH DIRECTV (http://asia.news.yahoo.com/070604/3/32w21.html), now that Mr. Cranky-Pants Murdoch is out of the way.

A word of thanks...

I did the eSata hard drive expansion on my TIVO S3, using the links provided by members here, and it worked perfectly!

I bought the Apricorn 750G DVR XPander....bought it online from Apricorn.

Arrived the next day. Came with the drive in a BEAUTIFUL enclosure, power cable, and the correct eSata cable...everything in one box.

The drive has a power-on switch and fan, which are recommended, and it's certified for 24/7 operation....and yes, it is whisper quiet.

Followed the '62 jumpstart' technique and YES! I now have 132 hours of HD recordings available.

If you're a true tech, you could do what I did for less money. But for roughly $400, I found a totally turn-key operation, idiot-proof and successful.

Thanks!

A word of thanks...

I did the eSata hard drive expansion on my TIVO S3, using the links provided by members here, and it worked perfectly!

I bought the Apricorn 750G DVR XPander....bought it online from Apricorn.

Arrived the next day. Came with the drive in a BEAUTIFUL enclosure, power cable, and the correct eSata cable...everything in one box.

The drive has a power-on switch and fan, which are recommended, and it's certified for 24/7 operation....and yes, it is whisper quiet.

Followed the '62 jumpstart' technique and YES! I now have 132 hours of HD recordings available.

If you're a true tech, you could do what I did for less money. But for roughly $400, I found a totally turn-key operation, idiot-proof and successful.

Thanks!

Sounds great. Congratulations.

Yes you could have done it for less money but it sounds to me like you got a reliable eSATA. Mine is loud from time to time, kind of sounds like a geiger counter. I wish I would have researched a bit more before purchasing but I'm pleased.

Too bad you missed the Star War Movies on HBO. Maybe they will do it again during the Summer.

Hot crap! Comcast finally got it working.

Hot crap! Comcast finally got it working.

Sweet! If you should not post for a while, we'll know enough to not call 911, since we know you'll be planted in front of your TV fooling with the S3. :)

I've had my Series 3 since last November, and it has worked flawlessly, until last night. The main TIVO menu screen (with the searchlights and lightbulb runners in the background) started to freeze up (I could tell when the subtle movement of the background image stuttered on and off). The menu items locked up and it wouldn't let me pick a menu item to go to. I was able to sluggishly play recorded items when the problem started, then it froze up more and more. I tried some powering up again, but haven't tried a reset yet. If I can't get into a menu to reset and clear memory, is there another way to reset or reformat the hard drive (which I am guessing might help?) Anyone else experience this?

Thanks,

Paul

I've had my Series 3 since last November, and it has worked flawlessly, until last night. The main TIVO menu screen (with the searchlights and lightbulb runners in the background) started to freeze up (I could tell when the subtle movement of the background image stuttered on and off). The menu items locked up and it wouldn't let me pick a menu item to go to. I was able to sluggishly play recorded items when the problem started, then it froze up more and more. I tried some powering up again, but haven't tried a reset yet. If I can't get into a menu to reset and clear memory, is there another way to reset or reformat the hard drive (which I am guessing might help?) Anyone else experience this?


Thanks,

Paul



Yes. In the messages and settings screen there is a setting for "clear and reset everything." That will reformat it. And you will lose everything just like formating the hard drive on your computer.

I'm guessing but my feeling is this "sluggishness" is probably a hard drive going bad. If you're out of warranty and you're a long time TiVo customer call TiVo and plead your case. They may send you a new S3 for free.

In any case if it is the hard drive "clear and reset everything" won't make matters any worst then they are now.

OK, another twist to my problem. The unit will lock up with the antenna connected (over the air - not cable). The instant I disconnect the attenna, the unit frees up and the menus and playback work fine. If I connect again, the unti instantly locks up. How in the world can an antenna connection prevent the TIVO from working?

OK, another twist to my problem. The unit will lock up with the antenna connected (over the air - not cable). The instant I disconnect the attenna, the unit frees up and the menus and playback work fine. If I connect again, the unti instantly locks up. How in the world can an antenna connection prevent the TIVO from working?

Only thing I can think of off of the top of my head is that the S3 is tuning in an over-the-air (OTA) channel which contains bad PSIP data.

Is it your intent to run OTA, or from cable ? If OTA, did the S3 give you any indications of problems when running through guided setup, or channel scan ?

My intent is to only run oTA. Until a couple of days ago, I haven't had any problems since last November.

My intent is to only run oTA. Until a couple of days ago, I haven't had any problems since last November.

It would appear to me that the hard drive is having difficulty recording data and that is causing it to crash. If you had cable you could find out if it's bad data like Paul said but quite honestly I'm thinking bad hard drive. Apparently it will still show recorded programs but can't record.

Remember even when you watch "live" you're really recording. Nothing is actually watched live.

The reset and delete did not fix the problem. Is there any way to "reformat" the hard drive. Also, I've taken the case apart and can easily access the hard drive, which looks like an ordinary computer drive. Can I simply replace the drive myself? I am mechanically inclined, and electrical engineer, and am capable of doing electronics work/soldering, etc, bnut not sure if there's any special things that need to be done if I replaced the drive myself.

Thanks

It looks like I'll need to buy a plug and play drive perhaps from WeekKnees, as I am not comfortable with the Linux boot disc process, etc.

I haven't done it myself, nor am I sure if this is a definitive guide to swapping out Tivo hard drives, but I present it here for you, nevertheless. Perhaps others will chime in to confirm whether or not this is a good guide site.

and for whatever it's worth, I've known a couple people who in no way consider themselves computer geeks and they were able to follow the procedures provided there and do so successfully.

http://tivo.upgrade-instructions.com/step1.php

I've posted about this in another forum in their help area but I can't get a response. I've noticed my S3 is getting things on "the to do list" that it shouldn't be getting. I have my S3's season pass set to "first run only" yet it has shown on the list a "Law and Order, SVU" from 1999 and also a "L&O CI" from 2002. In addition it has two episodes of "Rescue Me" upcoming one at 10:00 and another at 11:00 for a week from this Tuesday. Now as most people know FX schedules back to back showings of the same show all the time and I've never seen this before.

Anyone else having problems with this? It's not the worst thing in the world but still the data is there so TiVo should be able to recognize it, it's not a "generic" type of listing.

I noticed tonight that my guide data had been updated. Only one recording of Rescue Me is scheduled for Tuesday. As expected... It's actually pretty rare that the TiVo guide data causes a recording to be missed, or duplicated.

The reset and delete did not fix the problem. Is there any way to "reformat" the hard drive. Also, I've taken the case apart and can easily access the hard drive, which looks like an ordinary computer drive. Can I simply replace the drive myself? I am mechanically inclined, and electrical engineer, and am capable of doing electronics work/soldering, etc, bnut not sure if there's any special things that need to be done if I replaced the drive myself.

Thanks

When you clear and delete everything, you've reformatted the hard drive. It's the same thing.

I noticed tonight that my guide data had been updated. Only one recording of Rescue Me is scheduled for Tuesday. As expected... It's actually pretty rare that the TiVo guide data causes a recording to be missed, or duplicated.

Indeed, they put the title in and changed the description. Still, they did it in short notice IMHO.

Can someone please answer the following questions about the tivo3?

1. Does the tivo 3 keeps a video window open while you surf guides / settings, etc. or does it make you leave the program you are watching.

2.Can you please comment on the speed of setting up recordings. Does it set them up as fast as the moto6412/6416 or is the tivo3 like the series2 in that when you highlight a show and press 'record' does it then go to a screen that asks several questions or does it just put a red dot on that program?


3. Does the tivo3 require a dedicated phone line?

Thank you.

Can someone please answer the following questions about the tivo3?

1. Does the tivo 3 keeps a video window open while you surf guides / settings, etc. or does it make you leave the program you are watching.

2.Can you please comment on the speed of setting up recordings. Does it set them up as fast as the moto6412/6416 or is the tivo3 like the series2 in that when you highlight a show and press 'record' does it then go to a screen that asks several questions or does it just put a red dot on that program?


3. Does the tivo3 require a dedicated phone line?

Thank you.

1. No. There is only live video playing in the background while you're navigating through the guide data. Any other menuing takes you away from live video, and only presents you with the menu system.

2. The S3 is exactly like the S2. If you're recording something that is being watched live, it will just start recording it immediately. If it is a recording in the future, you'll be presented with the usual menu options.

3. The S3 will need to maintain contact with TiVo to retrieve software updates, guide data and other such stuff. It can do that over a phone line, or over your home network via wired or wireless ethernet. The phone line does not need to be "dedicated", it typically calls in the middle of the night, and senses if the line is free before attempting a call.

Paul got everything on the button but I want to follow up a bit about TiVo and "surfing." If you are one of those who still do that then TiVo is not the best device to use. It does take a bit to switch channels, specially if you're going from digital to HD or to analog. And the reason the S3 doesn't have a guide you can look at while watching a recording is because it does not have picture in a picture, a feature many people have asked for but never received.

Still the S3 blows the lid off of anything out there in cable land. Just not "great" for surfing.

Does anyone know if the eSATA Backpanel Port is a Port Multiplier compatible eSata port. I haven't purchased my Series 3 yet. So I'm looking at upgrade options Like a 4-Disk RAID Enclosure. You can activate it with the remote, just google (How-to: Use your TiVo Series3 eSATA port to add an external drive)

Paul got everything on the button but I want to follow up a bit about TiVo and "surfing." If you are one of those who still do that then TiVo is not the best device to use. It does take a bit to switch channels, specially if you're going from digital to HD or to analog. And the reason the S3 doesn't have a guide you can look at while watching a recording is because it does not have picture in a picture, a feature many people have asked for but never received.

Still the S3 blows the lid off of anything out there in cable land. Just not "great" for surfing.


I currently use the sony dhg hdd500 and the moto6416. Neither have PIP but continue your show in a small window while you do other things with the dvr. Both also record in the guide quickly by pressing the 'record' button (either once for one-time or twice for series) which is very efficient.

I used the HD Tivo for 2 years and thought tivo was solid but sluggish and somewhat inefficient. My three questions were the things about the tivo software that I did not like. Sounds like the tivo3 is a cable version of the hdtivo. Maybe future versions will add some of the features that seem to come standard with other dvrs.

I am dissapointed because I was hoping to replace my 6416 with the tivo 3 but don't want to give up too much to get dual tuner swap/ buffering (the only thing I don't like about the fios dvr).

Thank you Paul and Hookbill for your responses.

I currently use the sony dhg hdd500 and the moto6416. Neither have PIP but continue your show in a small window while you do other things with the dvr. Both also record in the guide quickly by pressing the 'record' button (either once for one-time or twice for series) which is very efficient.

Same as the S3. So far, so good...

I used the HD Tivo for 2 years and thought tivo was solid but sluggish and somewhat inefficient. My three questions were the things about the tivo software that I did not like. Sounds like the tivo3 is a cable version of the hdtivo. Maybe future versions will add some of the features that seem to come standard with other dvrs.

I've lived with the 6412 with Comcast for 2 years, the 8300 (SARA) with Adelphia for a year, and have had the S3 for 6 months now with Comcast. The 6412 wasn't a bad box, but still really doesn't hold a candle to the S3. On the other hand, the 8300 is a steaming pile of poop (and that's being generous).

Not exactly sure what you mean about TiVo adding features to the S3 that other DVRs have. The PIP window I suppose is one, but it's not a critical feature IMHO. VOD and PPV aren't possible with the S3, due to hardware constraints. Other than that, the S3 has everything you could want in a DVR. What other features are there that the 6412 has that the S3 lacks ? I've used both extensively, and I can't think of any...

Same as the S3. So far, so good...



On the other hand, the 8300 is a steaming pile of poop (and that's being generous).



Don't get me started...(see sig) :)

fastep the three things you bring up are probably the only three things that a cable box does that the S3 really can't. But there is so much more the S3 does. The S3 has better guide data, goes out longer then the cable company offers. You know that from D-TiVo. But you haven't seen how you can stream music and pictures from your computer to your TV, and eventually it will have some type of Tivo to go and Tivo to come back. And I can't believe you find the search feature on that cable box to be anywhere near as good as TiVo's.

Well it's your decision. After I got my S3 hooked up I tied my SA 8300 with some rope to the bumper of my car and drove it back to the cable company. What a pos!

Same as the S3. So far, so good...



I've lived with the 6412 with Comcast for 2 years, the 8300 (SARA) with Adelphia for a year, and have had the S3 for 6 months now with Comcast. The 6412 wasn't a bad box, but still really doesn't hold a candle to the S3. On the other hand, the 8300 is a steaming pile of poop (and that's being generous).

Not exactly sure what you mean about TiVo adding features to the S3 that other DVRs have. The PIP window I suppose is one, but it's not a critical feature IMHO. VOD and PPV aren't possible with the S3, due to hardware constraints. Other than that, the S3 has everything you could want in a DVR. What other features are there that the 6412 has that the S3 lacks ? I've used both extensively, and I can't think of any...



Other than the 3 things I mentioned and the two you added, I can't think of any either!

I wonder, if given a choice, how many dvr users would choose to leave a program to surf their dvr or have to go to a second screen to set up a quick recording or season pass. And what about the choice of getting my software updates over coax or telephone line? I won't even get into VOD.

For $700 (including 3 year programming and a $200 rebate) I would like to at least get what I get now from my 'free' moto6416.

My problem with getting the tivo3 is that I know a more efficient UI exists and in knowing that, it would bother me that I'm not using it, especially when I was getting it for free.

But that's me....I'm neurotic and always in a hurry!

The real question is what can tivo3 offer someone that the moto6416 doesn't (and is that something worth $700)?

IMHO, more properly stated it's SARA that's a POS. I bought and started using a Series 1 TiVo very soon after the product launched; I then got my first HDTV about 6 years ago. Though I suffered for lack of a way to timeshift HDTV, I'd be damned if I'd even consider returning to any form cassette tape. I finally got my first leased cable HD DVR 3 years ago, which was an SA8000HD running Passport Echo 1.5.xxx. My provider (TWC of San Diego), went through many revs of Passport Echo, but the last few (2.5.xxx) were quite decent--more than usuable. I never bothered to "upgrade" from the 8000HD to the 8300HD; I wasn't using DVI or HDMI and I didn't expect the UI speed improvement to matter that much to me.

About 5 months back I moved a community 30 miles up the coast from San Diego (Oceanside, just south of USMB Camp Pendleton), and bought a new 46" 1080p LCD panel with HDMI connections. It's Cox country, and they use SA8300HDs running SARA. I was appalled. It was simply not usuable. Had I continued to have an SA8300HD running Passport Echo, there's no way the improvements would have been worth the high additional cost of the S3 and service, but the SA8300HD running SARA was simply not bearable. It was driving nuts after 2 weeks.

Other than the 3 things I mentioned and the two you added, I can't think of any either!

I wonder, if given a choice, how many dvr users would choose to leave a program to surf their dvr or have to go to a second screen to set up a quick recording or season pass. And what about the choice of getting my software updates over coax or telephone line? I won't even get into VOD.

For $700 (including 3 year programming and a $200 rebate) I would like to at least get what I get now from my 'free' moto6416.

My problem with getting the tivo3 is that I know a more efficient UI exists and in knowing that, it would bother me that I'm not using it, especially when I was getting it for free.

But that's me....I'm neurotic and always in a hurry!

The real question is what can tivo3 offer someone that the moto6416 doesn't (and is that something worth $700)?

I'm really confused. There simply is no better IU then the S3. None is as easy and as simple to use specially TiVo's search features, wish list etc.

But I'm really not here to talk you into purchasing an S3. I pointed out other things the S3 does if you have a wireless network. There is Yahoo Traffic, Weather. I've got my entire I-Tunes catalog, around 8 days of music available through my S3. There is Amazon Unbox which is like pay per view or you can purchase movies (free 15.00 with sign up). You can use a service that sends home movies to friends with other TiVo's. A couple of games are available. Those are all the extras.

Most of them I could care less about except the music thing. But the reason I got rid of my SA 8300 was dependability (SARA -michaeltscott) which it didn't have.

You haven't stated if you have a wireless network set up. And if your DVR is working good for you and you're happy with it then maybe the S3 isn't for you.

Don't get me started...(see sig) :)

fastep the three things you bring up are probably the only three things that a cable box does that the S3 really can't. But there is so much more the S3 does. The S3 has better guide data, goes out longer then the cable company offers. You know that from D-TiVo. But you haven't seen how you can stream music and pictures from your computer to your TV, and eventually it will have some type of Tivo to go and Tivo to come back. And I can't believe you find the search feature on that cable box to be anywhere near as good as TiVo's.

Well it's your decision. After I got my S3 hooked up I tied my SA 8300 with some rope to the bumper of my car and drove it back to the cable company. What a pos!


The fios moto6416 has a 14 day program guide and excellent and fast search parameters (by actor, title, keyword, etc).

In fact while searching the guide I can instantly check future showings of a program by simply highlighting a show and hitting 'info'. (Very cool feature when you stumble on a good show that's already started).

I also like highlighting a show and pressing 'record' 2 times and my season pass is set. It takes all of one second. I can set up season passes for 5-10 shows in the time it used to take to set up one season pass with the HDTivo.

I like saving the extra steps and time. But that's just me. I'm an efficiency freak (or maybe just a freak??!!)

As far as streaming videos/pictures I would use it two or three times and never again - like the jacuzzi tub my wife talked me into. Again - that's just me.

Don't mind me - I'm just dissapointed that they have not changed ANYTHING that bothered me about my 2 HDTivos (and I really hoped they had!)

I wonder, if given a choice, how many dvr users would choose to leave a program to surf their dvr or have to go to a second screen to set up a quick recording or season pass. And what about the choice of getting my software updates over coax or telephone line? I won't even get into VOD.

I don't see why having to pause a program to set up a season pass or simple recording of a show presents such a problem ? Especially since said features are far more flexible (and reliable) than the standard cableco DVR solution.

The TiVo can get updates over phone or internet. At least TiVo updates their software on a semi-regular basis, adding new features all the time. When's the last time anything significant was added to the 64xx ?

I can live with or without VOD (and I work for a VOD company, BTW). You can rent movies and TV shows before they appear on VOD with the Amazon Unbox feature in the S3.


My problem with getting the tivo3 is that I know a more efficient UI exists and in knowing that, it would bother me that I'm not using it, especially when I was getting it for free.

But that's me....I'm neurotic and always in a hurry!

I'd argue that it also leads to somewhat confusing posts! :)


The real question is what can tivo3 offer someone that the moto6416 doesn't (and is that something worth $700)?

First of all : it's far more reliable and flexible than the 64xx. When I schedule a recording with the S3 (or any TiVo for that matter), I know it's gonna happen. That goes for a single show, or a SeasonPass / WishList. With the 6412, it may miss a show or two, or unnecessarily record too many repeats, cause recording conflicts, and potentially lead to more missed shows. The absolute control over recordings with SeasonPasses and WishLists can't be over-stated, rather than the simplistic and error-prone "Series Recording" wannabe thingy that the 64xx has.

Second of all : No remote control lag. You know, where you hit a bunch of remote keypresses, but the 6412 doesn't do anything for up to a half minute, and then plays them all back in quick succession ? That drove me absolutely bananas!

eSATA expandability. Not sure if they've turned that on with the 64xx, but the last I know it wasn't enabled where I'm at.

A menu system that doesn't suck. When I had the 6412, the menuing system felt byzantine and confused. You occasionally had to dive deeeep into menus to some some rudimentary things. The S3 GUI is simple and effective.

Amazon unbox rentals/purchases.

Galleon / TiVoDesktop allow you to play your MP3's and watch your digital photos on your HDTV (and many other cool things). Word has it that TiVo To Come Back is coming soon, which will allow you to watch videos that you may have on your CPU on your S3, rather than have to sit in front of your CPU.

It was simply not usuable. Had I continued to have an SA8300HD running Passport Echo, there's no way the improvements would have been worth the high additional cost of the S3 and service, but the SA8300HD running SARA was simply not bearable. It was driving nuts after 2 weeks.


I have used every dvr made except those of Dish Network. I think the RCA Ultimate TV was the best (excluding not having HD). On the other hand, I used the SA8300 for 2 weeks at my brother-in-law's house last summer. It is by far THE WORST! If fios gave me that POS I would have ordered a Tivo3 in about 2 seconds. Period.

I don't see why having to pause a program to set up a season pass or simple recording of a show presents such a problem ? Especially since said features are far more flexible (and reliable) than the standard cableco DVR solution.

The TiVo can get updates over phone or internet. At least TiVo updates their software on a semi-regular basis, adding new features all the time. When's the last time anything significant was added to the 64xx ?

I can live with or without VOD (and I work for a VOD company, BTW). You can rent movies and TV shows before they appear on VOD with the Amazon Unbox feature in the S3.




I'd argue that it also leads to somewhat confusing posts! :)




First of all : it's far more reliable and flexible than the 64xx. When I schedule a recording with the S3 (or any TiVo for that matter), I know it's gonna happen. That goes for a single show, or a SeasonPass / WishList. With the 6412, it may miss a show or two, or unnecessarily record too many repeats, cause recording conflicts, and potentially lead to more missed shows. The absolute control over recordings with SeasonPasses and WishLists can't be over-stated, rather than the simplistic and error-prone "Series Recording" wannabe thingy that the 64xx has.

Second of all : No remote control lag. You know, where you hit a bunch of remote keypresses, but the 6412 doesn't do anything for up to a half minute, and then plays them all back in quick succession ? That drove me absolutely bananas!

eSATA expandability. Not sure if they've turned that on with the 64xx, but the last I know it wasn't enabled where I'm at.

A menu system that doesn't suck. When I had the 6412, the menuing system felt byzantine and confused. You occasionally had to dive deeeep into menus to some some rudimentary things. The S3 GUI is simple and effective.

Amazon unbox rentals/purchases.

Galleon / TiVoDesktop allow you to play your MP3's and watch your digital photos on your HDTV (and many other cool things). Word has it that TiVo To Come Back is coming soon, which will allow you to watch videos that you may have on your CPU on your S3, rather than have to sit in front of your CPU.

I guess it is a matter of what's important to each user. Also, I never had any problems with the comcast 6412 or the fios 6416 (lag time, missed recordings, etc.) If I had the problems you experienced with the moto, I would have ordered the tivo3 in a heartbeat.

And if the new fios UI this summer doesn't have dual tuner buffering/swap, I may just jump on the tivo3 bandwagon!

Does anyone know if the eSATA Backpanel Port is a Port Multiplier compatible eSata port. I haven't purchased my Series 3 yet. So I'm looking at upgrade options Like a 4-Disk RAID Enclosure. You can activate it with the remote, just google (How-to: Use your TiVo Series3 eSATA port to add an external drive)
A memebr of TCF reported success with a Thecus array using two 750GB drive.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5127992&&#post5127992

The real question is what can tivo3 offer someone that the moto6416 doesn't (and is that something worth $700)?First of all : it's far more reliable and flexible than the 64xx. When I schedule a recording with the S3 (or any TiVo for that matter), I know it's gonna happen. That goes for a single show, or a SeasonPass / WishList. With the 6412, it may miss a show or two, or unnecessarily record too many repeats, cause recording conflicts, and potentially lead to more missed shows.To be fair, while my experience is not necessarily indicative, I've found the Motorola DVRs to be more reliable than the S3 with CableCards, in terms of "knowing it is going to happen". The S3 missed too many recordings for me, and the Motorola DVRs almost NEVER did. Especially this 3416 box -- it is incredibly reliable.

Hopefully, this second try with the S3 will be better -- we'll see.

With regard to the rest, though, especially with regard to the effect of unnecessarily recording too many repeats... that's a major advantage of the S3 over the Motorola boxes.

I agree with the rest of your comments as well -- the only issue I had that doesn't match your experience is the reliability. Hopefully, I'll have an update within the next week, and hopefully it will be good news rather than just a rehash of what happened last year with the S3.

I got a message that there's an update to the TiVo privacy policy. Anybody check it out yet?

To be fair, while my experience is not necessarily indicative, I've found the Motorola DVRs to be more reliable than the S3 with CableCards, in terms of "knowing it is going to happen". The S3 missed too many recordings for me, and the Motorola DVRs almost NEVER did. Especially this 3416 box -- it is incredibly reliable.
I had a similar experience. In the five months I have had my S3, about half a dozen shows have failed to record because one or the other of the S3’s CableCARDs didn’t tune the channel. Fortunately, it has been an intermittent and rare glitch. The SA 8300HD, which my S3 replaced missed few, if any, shows it was setup to record. Still, the SARA software was so horrible that replacing it with an S3 and the TiVo software has been like being let out of jail.

I have just Limited Basic and Digital Classic, which gives me all the HD channels minus the premiums and my S3 has never failed to record a show. It could be that the more complex the channel packaging the more issues the CCs might have.

I have a feeling though that CC issues will start to be rectified more quickly as cablecos deploy their own CC-equipment after July.

The Moto 6412 I had previously would drop a show at least once a month.

Basically it depends on how important it is to you that the shows get recorded.

I love my T-3, but I cannot rely on my it. I've had a clock problem where the clock gets set to 29 hours earlier during regular phone calls (a TiVo software problem that they are working on.) I've had a cable card fail for several days, then magically get brought back to life (probably a TimeWarner problem.)

We watch NO shows live. I hate the interface on the 8300, but I am keeping it and record on it duplicates of the shows that are important to me.

CB

I love my S3, but I cannot rely on my it. I've had a clock problem where the clock gets set to 29 hours earlier during regular phone calls (a TiVo software problem that they are working on.) I've had a cable card fail for several days, then magically get brought back to life (probably a TimeWarner problem.)
CB

Did TiVo give you a case number? If they didn't they are blowing smoke. Don't just sit on your hands on this. Also consider a wireless connection. Phone is just so 90's. :)

Oh and it's the S3 not T-3. I corrected your post. ;) T-3 has the Governator in it.

The main cable into the S3 read -3 when Comcast installed the cablecards. They wanted to change out the line and locate all my splitters. I balked because I had so much trouble with the cablecards and was content to have everything working.

Should I have them look into the "weak" signal? I don't want them drilling, digging, and replacing if it isn't going to significantly change anything.

The main cable into the S3 read -3 when Comcast installed the cablecards. They wanted to change out the line and locate all my splitters. I balked because I had so much trouble with the cablecards and was content to have everything working.

Should I have them look into the "weak" signal? I don't want them drilling, digging, and replacing if it isn't going to significantly change anything.

Absolutely. If they are saying you're getting a weak signal let them fix it. Otherwise you will have problems.

To be fair, while my experience is not necessarily indicative, I've found the Motorola DVRs to be more reliable than the S3 with CableCards, in terms of "knowing it is going to happen". The S3 missed too many recordings for me, and the Motorola DVRs almost NEVER did. Especially this 3416 box -- it is incredibly reliable.




The missed recordings may have something to do with the version of the cablecard you are using. I used a comcast cablecard with a sony dhg and missed several recordings.

I am now with fios and the sony has recorded everything.

With comcast the moto cablecard was v.4.05. With fios, it is v. 4.21. If you can, request the latest version of the moto cablecard and see if that solves the problem. Good luck.

I have just Limited Basic and Digital Classic, which gives me all the HD channels minus the premiums...I'm just a big confused, I think. Does Digital Classic provides you BBC America? Is there something between Digital Classic and Digital Preferred?

and my S3 has never failed to record a show. It could be that the more complex the channel packaging the more issues the CCs might have.I'm not sure about that. I remember when I had the problems I had with the S3, it wasn't HBO or Showtime that I had problems with.

I have a feeling though that CC issues will start to be rectified more quickly as cablecos deploy their own CC-equipment after July.Gosh, I sure hope so.

The Moto 6412 I had previously would drop a show at least once a month.I've had no dropped shows with my 3416, nor the 3412 before it.

If you can, request the latest version of the moto cablecard and see if that solves the problem. Good luck.The agent made it clear that they program the CableCards just for you :rolleyes: and that special requests were not accepted.

I have a feeling though that CC issues will start to be rectified more quickly as cablecos deploy their own CC-equipment after July.
I have the same feeling because so many of the S3’s CableCARD problems, reported both here and over at TiVo Community Forum, were clearly configuration glitches, caused by cable company foul-ups.

I'm just a big confused, I think. Does Digital Classic provides you BBC America? Is there something between Digital Classic and Digital Preferred?


I have no idea, Comcast has different tier structures for different areas. I only watch HD channels and in my area that's only the locals, ESPN-HD, Discovery-HD and FSNBA-HD which are Digital Classic. We have a Digital Plus I think but on my 550 system it doesn't get you any more HD channels. I think BBC-America is an Expanded Basic analog channel although it could be an ADS channel in many areas by now.

I have no idea, Comcast has different tier structures for different areas. I only watch HD channels and in my area that's only the locals, ESPN-HD, Discovery-HD and FSNBA-HD which are Digital Classic. We have a Digital Plus I think but on my 550 system it doesn't get you any more HD channels. I think BBC-America is an Expanded Basic analog channel although it could be an ADS channel in many areas by now.

FWIW in my area BBCA is on regular digital on TW. Their Expanded Digital has such sure fire can't miss channels like "The Reality Channel", Asia TV, Japan TV, and other things that I could care less about. Matter of fact there are only a couple of digital channels that interest me at all and then rarely. National Geographic and Hallmark. But I have to have the digital for HD and HBO.

BBC America is not ADS here -- it was never analog here AFIAK. Rather, it was one of the digital-only channels (those in the 200-level channels here).

The online website is a bit flaky in terms of information accuracy: It shows Digital Preferred (2 premium channels) costing MORE than Digital Premier (5 premium channels) -- the posted pricing for Digital Preferred is definitely a mistake, because I know I don't pay that much. So I'm a little leery about trusting what I see on the website (and I'm too lazy to call and ask). Having said all that, the website does show BBC American on Digital Classic.

From what I can see on the website (answering my own earlier question), the difference between Digital Classic and Digital Preferred includes:

Encore channels
Oxygen
Retroplex
Fit TV
Discovery Home
Fine Living
History International
Biography
Discovery Times
Military Channel
and a bunch of extra music video channels

Nothing I really care about (except Fine Living, but only to the extent that it affects HGTV HD which shows a lot of Fine Living programming).

Last year the difference between Digital Classic and Digital Plus (now Preferred) was $11.20 here. But the difference between Digital Classic and Digital Gold (now Prefered plus two premiums) was $31.20 and each premium channel was $19.95, so it made sense to just "Go Gold", thereby saving about $9 a month. If we ditch one premium, though, that calculation went the other way.

I have assumed that the numbers, though different, probably work out to the same answer, this year.

I just ordered a S3 so I don't know how well it will work when compared to Comcast Moto boxes but it has to be better. Some have said the Moto were so easy to program. Well my 3412 recently developed a failure to record series during final episode weeks of Lost and Heroes telling me that it is 100% full and that I need to delete something. When I would go to "My DVR", I was at around 50%. That's very, very frustrating. My S1 would merely make room by deleting old content. This is my third Moto DVR. Each of the earlier units died with content I never got to view before the was changed out.

I channel surf all the time with my S1. The guide pops up over the live content and I can view titles, content info, or guide data for future shows all while the live content remains on screen.

The only 2 concerns I still about going to the S3 are the lack of ability to access OnDemand content and the real possibility of cable card setup hell. I'll risk it.

YMMV

You're well-prepared Mike. Those are the two risks, and being ready for them will server you well.

Mr.Mike make sure that the cable cards are installed EXACTLY as the directions state. Do not allow for any variations, if they give you attitude give it right back and tell them this is your equipment, not theirs. In fact if you can put the cards in yourself and just have them right down the info and phone it in even better. Make sure they don't try to put in card 2 until card 1 is activated.

My cable install went perfect. And while it is true that cable card install can be a nightmare it is really the luck of the draw when the tech comes out. I don't believe that it is anywhere near the "nightmare" that is was back in September, there are still stories but not nearly the amount we use to see.

On Demand? What's the point of On Demand when you have a DVR? And since you can expand the drive now with eSATA that leaves even less reason for On Demand.

I just ordered a S3 so I don't know how well it will work when compared to Comcast Moto boxes but it has to be better. Some have said the Moto were so easy to program. Well my 3412 recently developed a failure to record series during final episode weeks of Lost and Heroes telling me that it is 100% full and that I need to delete something. When I would go to "My DVR", I was at around 50%. That's very, very frustrating. My S1 would merely make room by deleting old content. This is my third Moto DVR. Each of the earlier units died with content I never got to view before the was changed out.

I channel surf all the time with my S1. The guide pops up over the live content and I can view titles, content info, or guide data for future shows all while the live content remains on screen.

The only 2 concerns I still about going to the S3 are the lack of ability to access OnDemand content and the real possibility of cable card setup hell. I'll risk it.

YMMV

I got my S3 last week, and picked up the cable cards myself at the local Comcast office (in Seattle, WA). The installation instructions that the S3 provides are a little confusing (especially since it doesnt match up 100% with the on-screen instructions), but I managed to get them installed with no problem. While the comcast tech rep did activate the cable cards fine, it took a few calls to advanced tech care to get my premium channels set up (HBO and SHO). However within a few hours I was up and running.

I say if you get a phone rep who doesnt know what they're doing, ask to be escelated or just hang up/call back. Not all reps are up to speed on the activation process.

I LOVE the S3, it puts the moto POS box to shame. I am never switching back and if I didnt have to return the moto box to Comcast, I'd gladly chuck it out the nearest window.

Good luck!
Chris

Hey all,

Anybody else have issues with the S3 not playing sound effects through a dolby digital connection? I know it wont do the "bloop bloop" DURING a dolby digital show, but it also seems to not play the sound effects when I exit a dolby digital show and go back to say the main menu.

If I restart the unit it works ok.

This is a pretty minor nuisance but wonder if there is a workaround or that it may be addressed in next firmware update.

Thanks!

Did TiVo give you a case number? If they didn't they are blowing smoke. Don't just sit on your hands on this. Also consider a wireless connection. Phone is just so 90's. :)

Oh and it's the S3 not T-3. I corrected your post. ;) T-3 has the Governator in it.

Yes - they gave me a case number and connected me with a guy who knew about the problem. He explained that it happens on a connect after an unsuccessful attempt to connect. And they are working on it.

In the meantime I have disconnected the phone line and I force a connect (and then another one to set the clock correctly) every few days.

I won't have any trouble remembering that it's the S-3. I live in CA and have to read about the Governator every day in the newspaper. :(

I'm planning to do the wireless solution. Any tips would be appreciated. Do you use WEP security?

CB

I'm planning to do the wireless solution. Any tips would be appreciated. Do you use WEP security?

CB

Currently I use WEP but I probably will be changing to WPA. The S3 now supports it, just a matter of me getting my wife to do it. She is in charge of the wireless network and while I'm not totally a dunce about it I kind of leave that in her hands. I know a bit about it but I've never been that curious to really get into it. Plenty of info on the web of course, google is your friend.

I'm planning to do the wireless solution. Any tips would be appreciated. Do you use WEP security?


WEP is not very secure at all. I'd avoid it if possible.

The S3 supports the far more secure wireless protocol WPA, provided you use a TiVo-approved wireless adapter (such as TiVo's own model). You could alternately use what is sometimes called a "gaming adapter", which takes in ethernet from a device (such as the S3) and allows it to join a wireless LAN.

WEP is not very secure at all. I'd avoid it if possible.

The S3 supports the far more secure wireless protocol WPA, provided you use a TiVo-approved wireless adapter (such as TiVo's own model). You could alternately use what is sometimes called a "gaming adapter", which takes in ethernet from a device (such as the S3) and allows it to join a wireless LAN.

I looked on a Linksys forum and there was a post saying that WPA is a pain to set up. Any comments or tips to make it easier?


Thanks, CB

I looked on a Linksys forum and there was a post saying that WPA is a pain to set up. Any comments or tips to make it easier?

WPA with a pre-shared key (PSK) isn't any more difficult to set up than WEP. Instead of selecting WEP, you'll select WPA(PSK) or something similar. You'll choose a password that will be shared between the wireless router and the wireless adapter and enter it into both devices. The rest is essentially the same as WEP.

WPA with a pre-shared key (PSK) isn't any more difficult to set up than WEP. Instead of selecting WEP, you'll select WPA(PSK) or something similar. You'll choose a password that will be shared between the wireless router and the wireless adapter and enter it into both devices. The rest is essentially the same as WEP.

The Linksys Info pages say that with WPA it dynamically changes the encryption every nn seconds - where nn is a value defined by the user. How do the remote devices keep track of the changing encryption?

CB (AKA Nervous Nellie)

WEP is not very secure at all. I'd avoid it if possible.

The S3 supports the far more secure wireless protocol WPA, provided you use a TiVo-approved wireless adapter (such as TiVo's own model). You could alternately use what is sometimes called a "gaming adapter", which takes in ethernet from a device (such as the S3) and allows it to join a wireless LAN.

You make it sound like all my neighbors are sitting around breaking WEP encryption all day long.

Hehe... not only that, but I have to wonder how much concern one should have with regard to WEP vs. WPA, when so many of the networks here on my block are unsecured! :)

You make it sound like all my neighbors are sitting around breaking WEP encryption all day long.

Yeah, WEP is better then nothing at all but it is a better idea to use WPA. Why? Just because you never know. Suppose your neighbor is a pedophile and he is useing your wireless network to do his sick little thing. Well when the cops come knocking it will be at your door. I'm pretty sure neither of my neighbors are like that but then again how many times do you hear on the news about people being so surprised when someone gets busted.

Hehe... not only that, but I have to wonder how much concern one should have with regard to WEP vs. WPA, when so many of the networks here on my block are unsecured! :)

So true!

You make it sound like all my neighbors are sitting around breaking WEP encryption all day long.

Sorry, that's just my inclination, since I developed networking products (mainly routers and switches) for a looooong time.

These days, the hackers can break a WEP network in less than 30 seconds. Not a very big deal if it's just your TiVo sitting on the network, but it's a whole other ball game if you've got other computers with personal information sitting on them. Addtionally, you're decreasing the likelihood that your neighbors are going to piggyback on your wireless network and do whatever they'd like (P2P, kiddie porn, etc).

Besides, the effort in configuring a WEP and WPA network are essentially the same. Why wouldn't you want to be extra sure that your stuff is safe ?

And he said to the people,

"People who live afraid, tremble."

Wasn't there also a saying about fools rushing in? :)

To be fair, while my experience is not necessarily indicative, I've found the Motorola DVRs to be more reliable than the S3 with CableCards, in terms of "knowing it is going to happen". The S3 missed too many recordings for me, and the Motorola DVRs almost NEVER did. Especially this 3416 box -- it is incredibly reliable.

Hopefully, this second try with the S3 will be better -- we'll see.

With regard to the rest, though, especially with regard to the effect of unnecessarily recording too many repeats... that's a major advantage of the S3 over the Motorola boxes.

I agree with the rest of your comments as well -- the only issue I had that doesn't match your experience is the reliability. Hopefully, I'll have an update within the next week, and hopefully it will be good news rather than just a rehash of what happened last year with the S3.
That's interesting, as my 3416 (running Passport) misses shows pretty regularly. The TiVo never misses them, except when an EAS alert interrupts the recording. Since I set my Harmony remote to turn off the TiVo when I'm not using it, that required misfeature has only bitten me once. Before I had it set that way, recordings would crap out pretty regularly.

I have one word for the mass of regulations governing what a CableCARD host must do and can't do: crap.

Yeah, WEP is better then nothing at all but it is a better idea to use WPA. Why? Just because you never know. Suppose your neighbor is a pedophile and he is useing your wireless network to do his sick little thing. Well when the cops come knocking it will be at your door. I'm pretty sure neither of my neighbors are like that but then again how many times do you hear on the news about people being so surprised when someone gets busted.


How safe am I if I use WEP and MAC address authentication? Is that as good as WPA? Thanks.

That's interesting, as my 3416 (running Passport) misses shows pretty regularly.My 3416 that never misses recording is running iGuide.

The TiVo never misses them, except when an EAS alert interrupts the recording. ... I have one word for the mass of regulations governing what a CableCARD host must do and can't do: crap.The TiVo that missed recordings was using CableCards.

I can't give an honest ratio but I think it's fairly safe to say more people with cable boxes miss programs then people with cable cards. Since I got rid of that god awful SA 8300 I haven't missed a program. I've had a couple of partials because of that EAS thing but I was getting 3-5 partial recordings per week with the SA 8300 and it was totally unreliable if a show didn't come on every week as to whether it would record again or not.

Weirdo, here's something for you to think about. Some say that even when you put your TiVo in standby mode it really isn't down like you think. Want proof? The next time you take that thing off standby see if you don't have a half hour of cached recording on there. If it was truly on standby it shouldn't be recording anything except scheduled recordings), so how does that happen? ;)

I've heard some call it a "placebo" off switch.

How safe am I if I use WEP and MAC address authentication? Is that as good as WPA? Thanks.

No, it isn't. WPA is the safest way to go.

Sorry, that's just my inclination, since I developed networking products (mainly routers and switches) for a looooong time.

These days, the hackers can break a WEP network in less than 30 seconds. Not a very big deal if it's just your TiVo sitting on the network, but it's a whole other ball game if you've got other computers with personal information sitting on them. Addtionally, you're decreasing the likelihood that your neighbors are going to piggyback on your wireless network and do whatever they'd like (P2P, kiddie porn, etc).

Besides, the effort in configuring a WEP and WPA network are essentially the same. Why wouldn't you want to be extra sure that your stuff is safe ?

Alright, you talked me into it. I now remember why I didn't use it in the first place - with all the TKIP, AES, ASCI II, passphrases, etc. It was just easier to set up the WEP. Though, it was high time I learned how to set up WPA I guess.

How safe am I if I use WEP and MAC address authentication? Is that as good as WPA? Thanks.

There are a few "options" which are touted as "security features", which are in reality barely effective (if at all). MAC filtering is one, and can defeated extremely easily by anyone with a wireless packet sniffer (they're free and widely available). Disabling SSID broadcasts is another one, which is also minimally effective, and also defeatable by a packet sniffer.

WPA with a non-trivial password is the way to go. Go to THIS SITE (https://www.grc.com/passwords.htm) , hit refresh a few times, and cut-n-paste the randomly generated "63 random alpha-numeric characters" string into a text file. This is as secure as you're gonna get for WPA passwords. Enter that into your router and wireless client, and you're good to go.

There are a few "options" which are touted as "security features", which are in reality barely effective (if at all). MAC filtering is one, and can defeated extremely easily by anyone with a wireless packet sniffer (they're free and widely available). Disabling SSID broadcasts is another one, which is also minimally effective, and also defeatable by a packet sniffer.Kind of over kill... there aren't many people doing packet captures in the residential neighborhoods across America.

Linksys wireless router security settings:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzequg9f/linksys-screen1.JPG

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzequg9f/linksys_screen2.JPG

ssid, wireless channel, wpa shared key removed/modified to protect the innocent

I doubt many peopel are trying to break into a home owners wireless connection. The basic securityt it offers should protect most people.

Whatever.... Someone asked the question about how to securely set up a wireless network. I was merely lending advice, having developed, installed and designed network equipment for 15+ years. What do I know ?

Administer your network as you see fit. I know my network's safe from all but the most dedicated hackers. Minimizing network security only enables the casual attempts by the novices to be successful.

Whatever.... Someone asked the question about how to securely set up a wireless network. I was merely lending advice, having developed, installed and designed network equipment for 15+ years. What do I know ?

Administer your network as you see fit. I know my network's safe from all but the most dedicated hackers. Minimizing network security only enables the casual attempts by the novices to be successful.

Paul, your advice is appreciated. I hope you didn't feel insulted and I want to thank both you and optivity for you're advice. I actually went in and set up my own network with WPA now.

I live out in a rural area and I doubt anyone would find my signal except for the two neighbors that I can see who's network is not secure. Like I said I trust them but just in case it's always better to use the best security available.

Paul, your advice is appreciated. I hope you didn't feel insulted and I want to thank both you and optivity for you're advice. I actually went in and set up my own network with WPA now.

I live out in a rural area and I doubt anyone would find my signal except for the two neighbors that I can see who's network is not secure. Like I said I trust them but just in case it's always better to use the best security available.

Thanks, Hook. No sweat...

I also live in a rural area, and I doubt the retired couple who live next door are really into cracking into my net. :)

I was just trying to lay out a generic, moderately secure configuration for those folks who live in a more densely populated environment. It's pretty scary to see what's available out there for the script kiddies and casual voyeurs out there with just a few minutes of free time and a Google search. Enter "WEP Crack" into Google and see nearly the entire first page of hits littered with advice and tools required to crack a net in no time at all.

At this point in time, where WPA is widely available across the spectrum of wireless gear, its senseless to go without security, or (sometimes even worse) a porous security scheme which lends a false sense of security.

Full Disclosure: Second-chance install took place at noon. It took about 40 minutes. The tech had never done a CableCard install before. I installed the cards; he called in the numbers. 161-4 each time. No problems seen yet. Everything appears to be working right now. I have 8.0.1b; we'll see what happens when I get 8.3.

Doesn't WPA degrade network performance more than WEP?

Doesn't WPA degrade network performance more than WEP?

WPA could hamper your perfomance, but it is still much faster than your internet connection. (well, I guess that depends on your internet connection ;))

WPA could hamper your perfomance, but it is still much faster than your internet connection. (well, I guess that depends on your internet connection ;))Yeah--I just dumped wireless on all 4 of the devices I was using it on (laptop, Xbox, PS3 and TiVo) and got a >3X increase in download throughput from the net, going from 4.5 Mbps to 15 Mbps from a Cox cable modem.

Full Disclosure: Second-chance install took place at noon. It took about 40 minutes. The tech had never done a CableCard install before. I installed the cards; he called in the numbers. 161-4 each time. No problems seen yet. Everything appears to be working right now. I have 8.0.1b; we'll see what happens when I get 8.3.

Well from everything I read you're S3 will probably explode. :D

Mine seems to work just fine. I will admit to noticeing some pixelation problems with two HD stations: HDnet and MOJO. No problems with anyone else but those two both seem to have some problem. Still it's not enough where I would start a thread and b**ch about it.

I'll hold off starting my own thread until it does explode. :)

I'll hold off starting my own thread until it does explode. :)
Be sure to take a video of it. :p

Weirdo, here's something for you to think about. Some say that even when you put your TiVo in standby mode it really isn't down like you think. Want proof? The next time you take that thing off standby see if you don't have a half hour of cached recording on there. If it was truly on standby it shouldn't be recording anything except scheduled recordings), so how does that happen? ;)

I've heard some call it a "placebo" off switch.
I know it doesn't actually turn the TiVo off, but it doesn't have to obey the channel change command from the headend when an EAS alert comes in since it's not "in use", so it doesn't drop recordings on the floor. That's why I was referring to the idiotic CableCARD requirements that make the TiVo switch both tuners to the channel commanded by the EAS signal.

Of course, it's entirely TiVo's fault that they don't pick the recording back up once the alert is over, just as they do when the power goes out.

Before I figured out that turning it off, putting it in standby, or whatever you want to call it did that, a couple of recordings a week would be interrupted, since I started turning it off, only the one has been, and as I mentioned before that's because someone was actually watching the TiVo at the time of the alert.

BTW, a lot of newer equipment has some decent protection against the usual WEP cracking methods. They make it more difficult to gather the required number of packets to do the decryption. It's still a band aid, though, since if the attacker has patience, they can always wait for natural traffic on the network to provide the required number of packets to recover the key.

Full Disclosure: Second-chance install took place at noon. It took about 40 minutes. The tech had never done a CableCard install before. I installed the cards; he called in the numbers. 161-4 each time. No problems seen yet. Everything appears to be working right now. I have 8.0.1b; we'll see what happens when I get 8.3.

I must plead ignorance... What is 161-4, 8.0.1b, and 8.3 referring to?

161-4 is an error code that is returned when the TiVo cannot make contact with the CableCard (because it is being updated by the head-end -- I suppose we use it as a way of knowing the CableCard received the hit from the head-end). 8.0.1b is the version of the TiVo OS that is present on shipping TiVo Series 3 units. 8.3 is the latest version of the TiVo OS.

Paul, your advice is appreciated. I hope you didn't feel insulted and I want to thank both you and optivity for you're advice. I actually went in and set up my own network with WPA now.

I live out in a rural area and I doubt anyone would find my signal except for the two neighbors that I can see who's network is not secure. Like I said I trust them but just in case it's always better to use the best security available.I remember waaaaay back in the good old days of Windows 3.11 :eek: the first time I could remotely access someone's C:\ drive then modify/delete their autoexec.bat, config.sys, net.cfg files (not that I actually did that) and thinking to myself:

this can't be good. ;)

These days WXP Pro SP2 requires ~60 critical updates to remain relatively secure.

I wonder what happened to those service packs anyway? Well Bill... don't you support your OS anymore?

Whatever.... Someone asked the question about how to securely set up a wireless network. I was merely lending advice, having developed, installed and designed network equipment for 15+ years. What do I know ?Not much... just like me with 30 years of IT experience, you're just another "cog in the wheel." ;)

Doesn't WPA degrade network performance more than WEP?Not really, you're cable/dsl provider's already do that for you. ;)

You may go gig internally... but the fastest speed you can achieve is determined by the slowest link, which is typically the WAN link to your ISP's network.

I had no idea how to set up the security until I saw optivity's easy to follow instructions (I have linksys). Now I have WPA for my TiVo and my laptop. Thanks!

I did look at Paul Simoneau's link to for the passwords. I guess you can never get too much security but I decided to go for something a bit simpler (words and numbers).

Hey since both of you guys know so much about security I have a program called "RoboForm" that has my passwords on it. It was recommended to me by a friend. Are you familiar with it, and is it really safe? I know I'm really going off topic, I apologize. I also use Zone Alarm Security Suite.

I will admit to noticeing some pixelation problems with two HD stations: HDnet and MOJO. No problems with anyone else but those two both seem to have some problem. Still it's not enough where I would start a thread and b**ch about it.
Hey Hookbill,

Just an FYI. I too see pixelation problems on MOJO with TW Cleveland. It's not limited to the S3 however. I have the exact same pixelation on the TW Motorola 6416 HD DVR.

Hi Jason,

Are you still getting WBNX-HD ( Ch 55-1) OTA? If so, what direction is your antenna pointed? I've rescanned my S-3 about a half dozen times and my guide lists the program info ok, but no signal at all. Do you know where the tower is? Is it at the Parma antenna farm, or some other location?

Ben Music

Hey Hookbill,

Just an FYI. I too see pixelation problems on MOJO with TW Cleveland. It's not limited to the S3 however. I have the exact same pixelation on the TW Motorola 6416 HD DVR.

Kind of takes the problem off the S3, doesn't it.

Sorry to ask a rudimentary question, but I cant seem to find a clear answer from digging and searching.

I am considering spending the money on the s3 (two of them actually - with the current rebates at Costco).

I need to know exactly what to expect..

Can I get the local networks off cable in high def just by hooking up the TIVO to the cable line and paying for the $11-12 basic, no frills cable? If so, would that include the guide without me having to pay for a TIVO subscription (past the first year - I realize a 1yr sub is necessary for the $200 rebate).

If I cannot do that, can I get just OTA high def and get the guide somehow without buying the sub?

Thanks very much!

Sorry to ask a rudimentary question, but I cant seem to find a clear answer from digging and searching.

I am considering spending the money on the s3 (two of them actually - with the current rebates at Costco).

I need to know exactly what to expect..

Can I get the local networks off cable in high def just by hooking up the TIVO to the cable line and paying for the $11-12 basic, no frills cable? If so, would that include the guide without me having to pay for a TIVO subscription (past the first year - I realize a 1yr sub is necessary for the $200 rebate).

You would be able to get the local HD channels on the cable but no guide data.

If I cannot do that, can I get just OTA high def and get the guide somehow without buying the sub?

The S3 works OTA and guide data is provided that way. You would still need to buy the subscription to TiVo.

In both cases you have to buy the subscription to TiVo. The moment you plug your S3 in you have 7 days to set up your subscription or your TiVo just won't work anymore.

If you're looking to time shift OTA/Cable HD with no extra charges you should go for a Sony DHG-HDD250 or 500. You can probably find them at a Sony clearence store for a few hundered dollars.

I will check that unit, thanks.

So WITH a tivo sub, I can definitely get the basic cable HD channels with just the $11 no frills service?

looks like that SOny doesnt have dual tuners - so does me no good. Thanks, though.

I will check that unit, thanks.

So WITH a tivo sub, I can definitely get the basic cable HD channels with just the $11 no frills service?

With a Tivo sub your Tivo will work but, without cable cards, you won't have guide data for the HD channels you may receive-in the clear channels. You would be able to set up manual recordings for these channels but no season pass without the cable cards. You would get guide data for the analog cable channels, not the in the clear HD Channels.

Here is link to a discussion at the Tivo Community Forum.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=355386

Not really, you're cable/dsl provider's already do that for you. ;)Not everything in a home network goes over WAN. I move a lot of data between my devices, and someday hope to be able to move video data between the S3 and my PC. I avoided WPA because I didn't want to slow down my LAN (WAN notwithstanding), since I'd heard WPA has higher overhead than WEP.

Not everything in a home network goes over WAN. I move a lot of data between my devices, and someday hope to be able to move video data between the S3 and my PC. I avoided WPA because I didn't want to slow down my LAN (WAN notwithstanding), since I'd heard WPA has higher overhead than WEP.

Yeah, I'm also waiting to be able to transfer stuff to/from my S3.

It does have a higher computational overhead than WEP, and that's due to the addtional complexity of the crypto stuff that's happening. The TiVo WiFi adapter offloads a great deal of this crypto function from the TiVo unit itself, and serves to speed the transfers quite a bit.

I took an alternate approach in wiring up my S3. It is a bit more complicated than your average wireless network, but I can re-use the components I bought for other purposes if needed. I got another wireless router, flashed it with 3rd party firmware, and set it up in a mode that's known as a "wireless bridge" or "client bridge". It connects the wired ethernet devices (i.e. the S3) to the wireless LAN. So, the S3 simply thinks it's connected to a wired network, and doesn't have to worry at all about the wireless crypto stuff. Also, should I want to re-use the router for some other purpose, I can re-configure it to do so. I wouldn't be able to do that with a TiVo adapter.

I'm interested in buying a Tivo Series3 HD DVR, just not right this minute. The $200 rebate expires June 16th. What do you think will happen when this rebate expires?

Another rebate? A reduced rebate? No rebate for several months?

I'm interested in buying a Tivo Series3 HD DVR, just not right this minute. The $200 rebate expires June 16th. What do you think will happen when this rebate expires?

Another rebate? A reduced rebate? No rebate for several months?


The rebate is here to stay, IMO.

I got another wireless router, flashed it with 3rd party firmware, and set it up in a mode that's known as a "wireless bridge" or "client bridge".Just curious...what device is that? I set up a similar network, but the only wireless client I could find was the Buffalo WLI-TX4-G54HP. Works like a charm, but it would have been nice to be able to choose from multiple vendors.

The Tivo S3 is miles better than the comcast moto HD dvr. Finally, a DVR that doesn't stutter, when I use the remote. Getting the $200 rebate is icing on the cake. I upgraded using the external drive for a whopping 131 HD hrs. And this thing is still lightning fast.

The rebate is here to stay, IMO.
I don't think it is, at least I can't imagine they'd be rebating the S3 when the stripped down model comes out. In fact, I recall reading somewhere that Rogers said TiVo was cutting back, "severely" I think was the word used, on rebating in the near future. But who knows..

Just curious...what device is that? I set up a similar network, but the only wireless client I could find was the Buffalo WLI-TX4-G54HP. Works like a charm, but it would have been nice to be able to choose from multiple vendors.

You can use any router that is capable of running any of the popular 3rd party firmwares out there (DD-WRT, Tomato, etc). You simply choose a different operating mode ("bridge" instead of "AP") to run the device in. I've used both a Linksys WRT54Gv3 and a Buffalo WHR-G54S to do this, for both myself and my brother-in-law. Works like a charm, and isn't very difficult to set up.

HERE (http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/tutorials/article.php/3639271) is a decent explanation of what you need to do to set DD-WRT up to do this.

Not everything in a home network goes over WAN. I move a lot of data between my devices, and someday hope to be able to move video data between the S3 and my PC. I avoided WPA because I didn't want to slow down my LAN (WAN notwithstanding), since I'd heard WPA has higher overhead than WEP.Try doing some FTPs between devices within your internal network using different security settings on your router; I doubt you will see much difference. There is always going to be trade-offs when making technological decisions and in this case it's a balance between effective throughput rates versus tighter security. My choice is to be as secure as possible. When I'm transferring *.avi files between devices, or doing video captures, etc., I stay off the computer until the task is complete. Or better yet, fire it off at the end of the night before going to bed.I had no idea how to set up the security until I saw optivity's easy to follow instructions (I have linksys). Now I have WPA for my TiVo and my laptop. Thanks!

I did look at Paul Simoneau's link to for the passwords. I guess you can never get too much security but I decided to go for something a bit simpler (words and numbers).

Hey since both of you guys know so much about security I have a program called "RoboForm" that has my passwords on it. It was recommended to me by a friend. Are you familiar with it, and is it really safe? I know I'm really going off topic, I apologize. I also use Zone Alarm Security Suite.From my DSL modem I have a Linksys router and also run Zone Alarm's Security Suite on the desktop. I'm not familiar with RoboForm and my user-id/password management has gotten so bad I have to write them down on paper. :eek:

Your router employs a protocol called: Network Address Translation (NAT) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_address_translation) which prevents uninitiated connections to your intranet from the public domain (i.e. DMZ) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demilitarized_zone_%28computing%29).

Check out grc.com and run their Shields Up (http://www.grc.com/intro.htm) utility which is a useful tool to help determine how secure your home network is.

If you have a series 3 hooked up via HDMI in 1080i fixed mode, but you also want to use the composite video output to let you watch things on an old 4:3 TV in another room, how can you get the series 3 to output HD shows in a letterboxed mode on the composite output?

Right now on the old tv using composite I get the whole HD picture squished together horizontally in order to fit on the 4:3 tv screen. I had a Comcast DVR before this series 3 that would letterbox HD stuff on its RF output.

I tried fiddling with the TV aspect ratio settings on the tivo but that never seemed to change anything no matter how I set it.

Check out grc.com and run their Shields Up (http://www.grc.com/intro.htm) utility which is a useful tool to help determine how secure your home network is.

Yes, I visit Shields Up from time to time and I always get a "stealth" reading. You really can't beat Zone Alarm.

Now back to TiVo..... :)

If you have a series 3 hooked up via HDMI in 1080i fixed mode, but you also want to use the composite video output to let you watch things on an old 4:3 TV in another room, how can you get the series 3 to output HD shows in a letterboxed mode on the composite output?

Right now on the old tv using composite I get the whole HD picture squished together horizontally in order to fit on the 4:3 tv screen. I had a Comcast DVR before this series 3 that would letterbox HD stuff on its RF output.

I tried fiddling with the TV aspect ratio settings on the tivo but that never seemed to change anything no matter how I set it.

You would have to change the output settings to 480i and the tv to 4:3 to get the aspect button to work. We don't watch both at the same time so it doesn't screw up anyone viewing on the 16:9 TV. If that isn't your circumstance there is nothing you can do.

Guess we're stuck with the squeeze then. Wow, the Comcast DVR actually beat Tivo in this one thing :-)

I found another thing the Comcast DVR beats the TiVo S3 at.... Closed Captioning consistency. I have both connected to the same splitter, same -3.5db, and the Comcast DVR maintains Closed Caption decoding throughout all programs, while the TiVo S3 seems to be cutting out after the first commercial break on some of the lower channels.

I found another thing the Comcast DVR beats the TiVo S3 at.... Closed Captioning consistency. I have both connected to the same splitter, same -3.5db, and the Comcast DVR maintains Closed Caption decoding throughout all programs, while the TiVo S3 seems to be cutting out after the first commercial break on some of the lower channels.

I'll bet if you disconnect the splitter and just give the S3 the feed that would stop.

Unfortunately, not. This is a known problem with the S3. A couple of other folks have the problem. Apparently it is due to how the insertion of local commercials into cable channels is recognized by the TiVo. :(

I found another thing the Comcast DVR beats the TiVo S3 at.... Closed Captioning consistency. I have both connected to the same splitter, same -3.5db, and the Comcast DVR maintains Closed Caption decoding throughout all programs, while the TiVo S3 seems to be cutting out after the first commercial break on some of the lower channels.
I have found closed captioning on my S3 to be adequate, although there are occasional glitches, while there were virtually no closed captioning glitches with my old SA 8300HD. That said, the S3 isn’t just superior to the 8300HD running SARA software, it’s in another universe.

After I replaced my old S1 with an SA 8000HD in 2004 and used it for awhile, I almost forgot what a well designed DVR is capable of doing. Getting an S3 and once again having WishLists, a search utility that actually works, and the ability to return to several recorded programs at the place where I had left them, was a breath of fresh air.

To be fair: At least the S3's failures with regard to Closed Captioning are consistent -- every time we get to a commercial break on a cable network channel, we will lose Closed Captions for the rest of the recording. With all other devices we've used, Closed Captioning has never been perfect, but in most other cases the imperfections were inconsistent, unpredictable, etc. We haven't encountered any Closed Captioning inconsistency with the S3, at least not yet; either we have captions or we don't. Not much solace for my wife, but still some.

So, what can you do with this Tivo3? I mean, can you copy shows off of it onto your PC/Mac, and record them to DVD? Can you get it to shows you caller ID? Can you display your pictures from you PC (I have pictures in JPG and RAW formats on both PCs and a Mac)? And issues I should know about? Hard to just sit down and read this entire 66 page thread :eek: !

So, what can you do with this Tivo3? I mean, can you copy shows off of it onto your PC/Mac, and record them to DVD? Can you get it to shows you caller ID? Can you display your pictures from you PC (I have pictures in JPG and RAW formats on both PCs and a Mac)? And issues I should know about? Hard to just sit down and read this entire 66 page thread :eek: !

Go to the TiVo forum (there's a link on the front page) and go to the TiVo Series 3 links. At the top of the page is a FAQ, and that will answer most of your questions about what the Series 3 can, and cannot do.

I see, duh, should of looked there... thanks!

Doug

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=51

Go to the TiVo forum (there's a link on the front page) and go to the TiVo Series 3 links. At the top of the page is a FAQ, and that will answer most of your questions about what the Series 3 can, and cannot do.

2nd tuner stopped working. Anyone have this before?

I've only had this series 3 since Friday - before tonight both tuners worked great. I had tried swapping between them specifically to make sure this weekend and they were working.

Now the 2nd tuner, Tuner 1 in the diagnostics screen, can't lock on to either cable or OTA, and all I have is black screen.

Do I need to return this Amazon for a swap?

Try re-booting the box. Often this is enough.

Also check the setup for your cable cards and make sure they both are enabled.

2nd tuner stopped working. Anyone have this before?

I've only had this series 3 since Friday - before tonight both tuners worked great. I had tried swapping between them specifically to make sure this weekend and they were working.

Now the 2nd tuner, Tuner 1 in the diagnostics screen, can't lock on to either cable or OTA, and all I have is black screen.

Do I need to return this Amazon for a swap?


CableCARD or OTA ?

Definitely try a reboot first. If that doesn't clear things up, you might get by with a repeat of the Guided Set Up. If you're still in the weeds, and you don't mind losing everything in your Now Playing list, you can nuke 'n pave with the "Clear and Delete Everything" option.

No cable cards. I did reboot once, and it still isn't working. OTA signal strengths on the tuner that is working are in the 95 to 97 range. Since Amazon has an easy return policy and will send me a new one before I have to send back this one, I went ahead and scheduled a replacement.

The warranty period on these is so short I want to make sure I get a non-flaky one fast.

By the way can anyone recommend any good relatively inexpensive 3rd party extended warranty for use with the S3?

No cable cards. I did reboot once, and it still isn't working. OTA signal strengths on the tuner that is working are in the 95 to 97 range. Since Amazon has an easy return policy and will send me a new one before I have to send back this one, I went ahead and scheduled a replacement.

The warranty period on these is so short I want to make sure I get a non-flaky one fast.

By the way can anyone recommend any good relatively inexpensive 3rd party extended warranty for use with the S3?
This is a common enough failure that it warrants an immediate return and replacement. Good thing you found it early enough for a quick return. - Many people blame the cablecards (if used), when it's really the tuner going out. When that happens, the tuner isn't able to get and pass the cable authorization data to the card, so they keep switching cards until the tuner "resets" enough to pass some data, but then they lose it again at some later time when trying to update the cards. A good working tuner is required to get get the authorization and setup data, but as the tuner starts to fail, it either records nothing, cuts programs short, or shows a gray screen.

vegggas

Is anyone using an S3 with basic cable ($12.99/mo) and then leasing a cable card just for the channel mapping? Are the cable companies capable of doing this? Or do I need to upgrade to a higher level package to be able to use a cable card for channel mapping?

Is anyone using an S3 with basic cable ($12.99/mo) and then leasing a cable card just for the channel mapping? Are the cable companies capable of doing this? Or do I need to upgrade to a higher level package to be able to use a cable card for channel mapping?

You don't need a cable card to map out any unencrypted channels. Even digital channels that are unencrypted will appear in the guide without cable cards. The only problem would be unencrypted HD. You will have no data with those channels but you will be able to clearly see where they are at.

I had a problem with FOXHD in my area before cable cards, that was the only one I could not find. Everything else simply appears in the channel guide once you ask it to run a search for channels.

The only problem would be unencrypted HD. You will have no data with those channels but you will be able to clearly see where they are at.

Clear-QAM HD locals is about the only thing I really watch. I guess I should have been more clear, but is anyone using a cable card with basic cable ($12.99/mo) solely to get unencrypted local HD channels to be mapped properly and show up in the guide?

Clear-QAM HD locals is about the only thing I really watch. I guess I should have been more clear, but is anyone using a cable card with basic cable ($12.99/mo) solely to get unencrypted local HD channels to be mapped properly and show up in the guide?

OK, I understand what you're asking. No offense but why not call your cable company and ask them this question? I think that if you get cable cards the idea is you want to receive digital cable. Now that doesn't mean that just because you have the cards you will get digital cable so I suppose it might be possible but you really should ask the cable company and in any case you would still need two cable cards.

You don't need a cable card to map out any unencrypted channels. Even digital channels that are unencrypted will appear in the guide without cable cards.This is incorrect. Without CableCARDs, the only thing you will see in the guide are analog cable channels. Unencrypted digital channels will show up "numerically" in the list of channels in the guide, but the guide data for them will be blank. No guide data will be supplied for any digital channels (HD or otherwise). For any digital channels (HD or not) that are unencrypted, you can manually tune to them (using either their QAM frequency or their OTA channel number depending on your area) and you can manually record them (by manually inputting channel #, time and duration), but you won't get any guide data for them.

Also, the only digital channels you are likely to be able to see are your local OTA channels (and possibly some music channels).

This is incorrect. Without CableCARDs, the only thing you will see in the guide are analog cable channels. Unencrypted digital channels will show up "numerically" in the list of channels in the guide, but the guide data for them will be blank. No guide data will be supplied for any digital channels (HD or otherwise). For any digital channels (HD or not) that are unencrypted, you can manually tune to them (using either their QAM frequency or their OTA channel number depending on your area) and you can manually record them (by manually inputting channel #, time and duration), but you won't get any guide data for them.

Also, the only digital channels you are likely to be able to see are your local OTA channels (and possibly some music channels).

True.

OK, I understand what you're asking. No offense but why not call your cable company and ask them this question? I think that if you get cable cards the idea is you want to receive digital cable. Now that doesn't mean that just because you have the cards you will get digital cable so I suppose it might be possible but you really should ask the cable company and in any case you would still need two cable cards.

Even if they told me that, yes, it was possible, would that answer be even remotely reliable? Before I buy an S3, I want to make sure that its possible (i.e. someone else has done it), not that some clueless zombie on the phone said "yes, it will work". ;)

Even if they told me that, yes, it was possible, would that answer be even remotely reliable? Before I buy an S3, I want to make sure that its possible (i.e. someone else has done it), not that some clueless zombie on the phone said "yes, it will work". ;)

Good point, I'm not one to say much of cable company CSR's but I think they could answer the question, "Can I get cable cards and not have to purchase digital cable?"

I just think no one here is going to answer your question.

But who knows, you're certainly entitled to post it. :)

Can I get cable cards and not have to purchase digital cable?

Well, that's not really what I'm asking. What I'm asking is: will the cable cards properly map the channels without purchasing digital cable? The cable companies certainly won't know the answer, since it requires knowledge about CableCard implementation and how the S3 uses it. Without finding someone with that knowledge, the only way to get the answer to my question is to find someone who's tried it, and either it's worked or it hasn't.... so.. anyone? :D

Well, that's not really what I'm asking. What I'm asking is: will the cable cards properly map the channels without purchasing digital cable? The cable companies certainly won't know the answer, since it requires knowledge about CableCard implementation and how the S3 uses it. Without finding someone with that knowledge, the only way to get the answer to my question is to find someone who's tried it, and either it's worked or it hasn't.... so.. anyone? :D
I have Limited Basic with Comcast and the CCs map the channels correctly, they're mapped to the same channel numbers as the Comcast guide/numbering scheme. I get all the HD locals plus sub-channels.

Even though you don't have a "digital" package, you're still getting digital signals for the in-the-clear QAM channels, such as the local HD channels(plus sub-channels if Comcast carries them).

I have Limited Basic with Comcast and the CCs map the channels correctly, they're mapped to the same channel numbers as the Comcast guide/numbering scheme. I get all the HD locals plus sub-channels.

Even though you don't have a "digital" package, you're still getting digital signals for the in-the-clear QAM channels, such as the local HD channels(plus sub-channels if Comcast carries them).

Thanks Keenan. That's exactly what I was looking for! With Comcast, did you just ask them for CableCards and they came to your house to install them, or did you have to fight with them to get the CableCards without a digital package?

Thanks Keenan. That's exactly what I was looking for! With Comcast, did you just ask them for CableCards and they came to your house to install them, or did you have to fight with them to get the CableCards without a digital package?That's something I've wondered, too. I've never asked my CC (Mediacom) about it. I may, just to see how much they would charge for the "install" and monthly cablecard fee.

...with basic cable ($12.99/mo)...Boy, I'd like to know where that is. We're now paying nearly $20/mo for basic.