TiVo Series 3 - "Official" Thread [Text View]

silentbob1974

09-12-06, 04:56 PM

A couple of (potentially dumb) questions:

1) TiVo sent me an e-mail saying that if I bought the Series 3 now, for $199 I can transfer the lifetime service on my current non-HD Series 2 to the new unit. This offer applies only if I order directly from TiVo and not, say, Circuit City or elsewhere right? Am I really going to find a better price elsewhere than $800? $199 for lifetime service on the new unit when such a subscription option isn't offered anymore seems like a really good deal.

2) Are the necessary CableCARDs going into the TiVo unit only? If so, does that mean that my HDTV (an NEC) need not CableCARD-compatible (i.e., have slots for the card) itself?

dssturbo1

09-12-06, 05:02 PM

Good work Getgray, the 10% off coupon worked for me, total $782 with tax and one day shipping supposed to be here Thursday.

yes, silentbob the S3 has two cablecard slots.

dssturbo1

09-12-06, 05:09 PM

GetGray

09-12-06, 05:28 PM

depends on your area GG. have you checked antennaweb.org to see what stations and direction distance you are from towers.

warren electronics has a good range of antennas. the channel master 4228 usually gets great reviews. I use a old style looking rca large outside uhf/vhf bought it at home depot for $60, and 3x 5 ft poles to put it 15ft in the air. i am 25 miles from my towers and get good solid reception.
Thanks. I had not looked but have now. Of the stations marked "DT" ( I presume those are the HD channels), all but one requred the lowest antenna (yellow); the other one had red. All of the are basically at the same angle. Most are are about 7 miles, a couple at 21 miles. I'd like to put my antenna in my huge, empty attic.

JFKLS1

09-12-06, 05:41 PM

Just ordered mine from CC. $768 total. It says 9-14-06 as ship date. I hope that means shipped to me. Man I can't wait. With this and my HDD-250 I will be able to record 3 HD channels at the same time. Hot diggity. :) I will post back after tryin it out.

dssturbo1

09-12-06, 06:38 PM

GG, at 7 miles most any antenna should work and if in the same direction at 21 probably will too. attics usually work fine too. (just with ota there are always variables), hills, trees, other houses/buildings etc..

do you check to see if you have any uhf digital stations? most use vhf but also remember some may revert back to vhf in a few years. you can always start with a small antenna in the attic from radio shack or home depot or lowes and if that doesnt work try a larger one. with those local sources it is easy to return if it doesn't work.

if you can't find an antenna locally try warrenelectronics.com or starkelectronics.com. i've used warren a couple times and they have good prices and shipped fast.

some UHF only like the Channel master 4228 will also pick up channels in the upper vhf range 7-13.

spiff72

09-12-06, 06:57 PM

I just ordered one from CC too with the coupon code. Nice find, GetGray.

I am on the phone (on hold) to cancel the order from TiVo.com. I got a ship date of 9/13 with arrival on the 14th since I sprung for express shipping.

If CC changes this date I am going to be super-pi$$ed!

I have an HDD-250 as well, and I don't intend to stop using it, either...

Chip Chanko

09-12-06, 08:05 PM

HDD-250 I thought I'd get at CC was $339 (couldn't talk them down lower than that and $200 was my cut-off) so i'm gonna roll w/ the Tivo instead. Coupon worked for me, too.

skitime2

09-12-06, 10:11 PM

Does anyone know if the Tivo wireless network adapter works with the series 3? I plan on using it with the Airport extreme, should be a good set-up I hope!

bfdtv

09-12-06, 11:28 PM

Does anyone know if the Tivo wireless network adapter works with the series 3? Yes, it does.

That said, you'd probably get better network performance by using a 100mbps ethernet -> wireless bridge or an ethernet -> wireless gaming adapter. One example of a wireless bridge would be Apple's Airport Express (http://www.apple.com/airportexpress/).

Cheaper alternatives are available if you don't care whether it's from Apple.

The extra performance wouldn't really make a difference now, but it would if/when Tivo releases updated software with TivoToGo and MRV support.

Bear5k

09-12-06, 11:51 PM

Thanks Scott! I'm in at <$800 and can finally use my lifetime card to good effect. :)

MissOtis

09-13-06, 12:05 AM

[ TiVo sent me an e-mail saying that if I bought the Series 3 now, for $199 I can transfer the lifetime service on my current non-HD Series 2 to the new unit. This offer applies only if I order directly from TiVo and not, say, Circuit City or elsewhere right?]

From the Tivo thread I read this morning, that's correct. It has to be purchased directly from Tivo.

I'm waiting until I hear some reviews - at $800 plus $199...damn. It better be great - but I would like the dual tuners.

bfdtv

09-13-06, 12:57 AM

Hold out a few weeks for the dot.com vendors like Amazon.com and Buy.com to sell 'em for $600-$650. :D

At a wholesale price of $500, there is certainly some room for differentiated pricing, assuming Tivo doesn't set MRP.

srothkin

09-13-06, 08:50 AM

jmj12

09-13-06, 08:55 AM

Does the series 3 have two live buffers, and if so how many minutes do they allow?

Thanks,
Jim

bierboy

09-13-06, 09:11 AM

I noticed it only has 32 hours of HD storage and no mention of any ability to add additional hard drives. Plus it says the eSata port is "reserved for future use".

What's the chance of TIVO offering larger internal hard drive sizes in the near future?

If I buy it now and they later enable either the eSata or USB ports for expanding storage, will that be a software upgrade that I can download (or that gets automatically pushed to the box) or will I need to replace the whole box?
From the information in TCF, the eSATA port could be enabled through a software update. And, initially, it was thought the internal drive would be IDE. But it's a SATA drive, which, in theory, could be replaced (upgraded). TiVo's plan all along (and it was shown at CES 2006) has been to allow adding an external SATA (eSATA) drive to increase storage. An external drive was on display at CES this year.

spiff72

09-13-06, 09:12 AM

I noticed it only has 32 hours of HD storage and no mention of any ability to add additional hard drives. Plus it says the eSata port is "reserved for future use".

What's the chance of TIVO offering larger internal hard drive sizes in the near future?

If I buy it now and they later enable either the eSata or USB ports for expanding storage, will that be a software upgrade that I can download (or that gets automatically pushed to the box) or will I need to replace the whole box?

It has been widely reported that the unit will support eSATA drives, but it seems that it wasn't ready for initial launch. It should just be a software upgrade when (or if) it becomes available. (This is all just my own speculation, though).

bierboy

09-13-06, 09:15 AM

Does the series 3 have two live buffers, and if so how many minutes do they allow?

Thanks,
JimYes, 30 minutes for both.
There's an S3 FAQ here. (http://www.tivolovers.com/Series3-FAQ.html)

spiff72

09-13-06, 09:17 AM

But it's a SATA drive, which, in theory, could be replaced (upgraded).

Probably not by the user, though... TiVo usually requires the drive to be "blessed", and this would probably need to be done for an "upgrade" to work. It is possible that a third party may do this in the future (like weaknees.com), or make it possible for DIY'ers. I suspect that TiVo might have stronger DRM/encryption than the previous models to protect the HD content, though.

bierboy

09-13-06, 09:21 AM

Probably not by the user, though... TiVo usually requires the drive to be "blessed", and this would probably need to be done for an "upgrade" to work. It is possible that a third party may do this in the future (like weaknees.com), or make it possible for DIY'ers. I suspect that TiVo might have stronger DRM/encryption than the previous models to protect the HD content, though.Certainly it's all speculation at this point. I believe that TiVo's intent in providing the eSATA port was to discourage users from replacing the internal HD. Fact is, it would be a much wiser investment (when the port is enabled) to buy an eSATA enclosure and drop an internal SATA drive in it. You could double the S3's storage for under $100. And I'd be much more comfortable doing that than swapping out the internal HD. I've swapped out/installed many internal hard drives, so I'm not a novice. But TiVo is making it easier to increase storage (hopefully when, and not if, they enable the eSATA port).

spiff72

09-13-06, 09:52 AM

Certainly it's all speculation at this point. I believe that TiVo's intent in providing the eSATA port was to discourage users from replacing the internal HD. Fact is, it would be a much wiser investment (when the port is enabled) to buy an eSATA enclosure and drop an internal SATA drive in it. You could double the S3's storage for under $100. And I'd be much more comfortable doing that than swapping out the internal HD. I've swapped out/installed many internal hard drives, so I'm not a novice. But TiVo is making it easier to increase storage (hopefully when, and not if, they enable the eSATA port).

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the external drive, once you put it into place will need to stay attached, since it can use both drives (in other words, the internal drive won't fill first).

bierboy

09-13-06, 10:09 AM

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the external drive, once you put it into place will need to stay attached, since it can use both drives (in other words, the internal drive won't fill first).Spiff, I believe that's true (operationally). I believe you can disconnect it, but certainly would have to reconnect for the TiVo to function properly. I don't believe disconnecting it would "damage" anything. I'm stating this from memory (can't find the info right now on TCF).

PhillyC

09-13-06, 11:10 AM

A recorded program can exist across both the internal and external drives. Someone wrote that removing the external drive would cause such a program to vanish from the recorded programs list.

spiff72

09-13-06, 11:27 AM

srothkin

09-13-06, 11:36 AM

What/where is TCF?

spiff72

09-13-06, 11:55 AM

What/where is TCF?

Tivo community forums?

bierboy

09-13-06, 11:59 AM

Yes, www.tivocommunity.com. Sorry, I should have explained better.

bierboy

09-13-06, 12:01 PM

I got an email from Circuit City this morning saying that my order was ready to ship, but I haven't seen a tracking number email yet...

This might be a good sign that they really do have them in inventory! I might just call my cableco back and re-re-schedule for Friday if they have an opening for a triple cablecard install.

I wasn't able to cancel my TiVo.com order, so I am going to have to refuse delivery (this will be tricky, since I had it shipped to my office).Oh, believe me, they DO have them in stock. I ordered mine from CC yesterday, and it's on a local FedEx truck today for delivery. Whether I get it today or tomorrow, I'm not sure. Sometimes they sit on the delivery truck all day and don't get delivered until the next day.

bierboy

09-13-06, 12:02 PM

A recorded program can exist across both the internal and external drives. Someone wrote that removing the external drive would cause such a program to vanish from the recorded programs list.But might it "re-appear" if you re-connected the drive? I don't know.

PhillyC

09-13-06, 12:16 PM

But might it "re-appear" if you re-connected the drive? I don't know.

My guess is that would happen only if you did not power up the Tivo while the external drive is disconnected. Powering up would probably cause permanent changes in the file system.

Also, I'm sure the external drive is not meant to be portable in any way. It all has to do with content protection. That's what has delayed activation of the eSATA port.

I'll bet the Tivo hacking community is in for a rude awakening with this HD unit. It may turn out to be like the Sony DVR, where there are protections against replacing/upgrading the internal drive. I don't think anyone has found a way around that yet.

jedster

09-13-06, 12:44 PM

My guess is that would happen only if you did not power up the Tivo while the external drive is disconnected. Powering up would probably cause permanent changes in the file system.

Also, I'm sure the external drive is not meant to be portable in any way. It all has to do with content protection. That's what has delayed activation of the eSATA port.

I'll bet the Tivo hacking community is in for a rude awakening with this HD unit. It may turn out to be like the Sony DVR, where there are protections against replacing/upgrading the internal drive. I don't think anyone has found a way around that yet.

I was going to buy one of these until I found out that multi-room viewing and other dumb DRM restrictions were put in place. Not because I was going to do anything that content providers wouldn't want, but rather beacuse I want to be able to watch their product in more places.

The content providers and DRM-nuts are incredibly stupid: they need to understand that the more places in which they can distribute the product, the more money they can make. They are the first people in history that are actually paranoid about customers using their stuff.

So stupid. I won't buy ANY new DVR system that does not have multi-room viewing. There is NO GOOD REASON for this feature not to be enabled.

bfdtv

09-13-06, 12:50 PM

I noticed it only has 32 hours of HD storage and no mention of any ability to add additional hard drives. Plus it says the eSata port is "reserved for future use".

What's the chance of TIVO offering larger internal hard drive sizes in the near future?
Tivo has said the external eSATA port for drive expansion will be enabled in an upcoming software update; in fact, they are apparently showing an updated version of the software with the capability at CEDIA. They are saying that a software upgrade is planned for ~November, which will add some features not available at initial release.

bfdtv

09-13-06, 12:53 PM

From Megazone

Series3 FAQ (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=315791)

Series3 Review (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=315892)

Series3 Photo Thread (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=315795)

dbburns

09-13-06, 01:05 PM

Excuse my ignorance, as I really know nothing about Tivo (other than it has a very zealous following), but how does one go about getting one of these "lifetime" subsciptions? Last thing I want to do is pay a monthly fee for something I already own. I'd rather pay upfront and not worry about future fees and especially monthly-fee increases.

shamste

09-13-06, 01:07 PM

I was going to buy one of these until I found out that multi-room viewing and other dumb DRM restrictions were put in place. Not because I was going to do anything that content providers wouldn't want, but rather beacuse I want to be able to watch their product in more places.

The content providers and DRM-nuts are incredibly stupid: they need to understand that the more places in which they can distribute the product, the more money they can make. They are the first people in history that are actually paranoid about customers using their stuff.

So stupid. I won't buy ANY new DVR system that does not have multi-room viewing. There is NO GOOD REASON for this feature not to be enabled.

I haven't seen any definite evidence that this may not be enabled in the future. It seems like there are many features which just have not made it out of beta (or maybe alpha), such as the external eSATA expansion. I am guessing this may be one of them. I would suspect the issue may be network traffic generated by pushing an HD program to another box in another room. From my back of the envelope calculations, if a 250GB drive has a capacity of 32 hours for HD programming (ignoring space taken up by the OS and various databases) an HD program will take up about 8GB of space per hour of programming. This means to push the program over the network would require a little over 17.3Mb/s of bandwidth. I would suspect that many people use a WiFi connection for their network connectivity, many of which would be 802.11b, which under optimal conditions is 11Mb/s. Even if you went with Ethernet, their networks may only be 10Mb/s (10base-T). They would not get consistent results streaming a program over the network unless TiVo employed some sort of compression, which may compromise quality (which may compromise THX certification). Hopefully TiVo can come up with some way to enable this, at least for those who have 100base-T or 802.11g (I'm coming from Series1, so I am not sure which standard the TiVo WiFi connector uses) employed for their network. Of course, this would still put a noticeable amount of traffic on the network and imagine if you had a second or third stream happening at the same time. Anyway, just my two cents.

srothkin

09-13-06, 01:17 PM

Last thing I want to do is pay a monthly fee for something I already own. I'd rather pay upfront and not worry about future fees and especially monthly-fee increases.

That would be nice BUT it wouldn't be worth that much if down the road TIVO went belly up and the program guides got discontinued as a result. As much as I like to save money, I can live with a periodic recurring fee if it serves to ensure the continued upkeep of the program guides.

dravenstone

09-13-06, 01:24 PM

I haven't seen any definite evidence that this may not be enabled in the future. It seems like there are many features which just have not made it out of beta (or maybe alpha), such as the external eSATA expansion. I am guessing this may be one of them. I would suspect the issue may be network traffic generated by pushing an HD program to another box in another room.

Nah, the problem is with the cablecard integration. CableLabs has to certify the device and they make that pretty tough. Tivo is currently trying to understand exactly what they can/can't do with MRV and TTG and digital content on the S3. They have stated publicly (on TCF's) that the software is there and can be enabled if/when they get things worked out from the legal end.

Dburns:
xcuse my ignorance, as I really know nothing about Tivo (other than it has a very zealous following), but how does one go about getting one of these "lifetime" subsciptions? Last thing I want to do is pay a monthly fee for something I already own. I'd rather pay upfront and not worry about future fees and especially monthly-fee increases.

Tivo changed their pricing model a while back, you can no longer flat out purchase a lifetime sub. Current tivo subscribers who have S1 or S2 tivo's have been given an option to transfer their existing lifetime sub from their S1 or 2 to a new S3 if they meet certain conditions (must buy the S3 from tivo directly instead of retail and a couple of other things.)
There are a bazillion links to the appropriate tivo website but I can't post it, or apprantly anything even similliar to it but you know /vip will help you out)
Some folks still have lifetime "gift cards" which tivo will accept as well, they are getting a hefty premium for those on ebay right now...

shamste

09-13-06, 01:33 PM

Nah, the problem is with the cablecard integration. CableLabs has to certify the device and they make that pretty tough. Tivo is currently trying to understand exactly what they can/can't do with MRV and TTG and digital content on the S3. They have stated publicly (on TCF's) that the software is there and can be enabled if/when they get things worked out from the legal end.

Sorry, I should have said "an issue". I figured there would be licensing issues as well, but decided to focus on the engineering hurdles.

spiff72

09-13-06, 02:14 PM

Does anyone know if the digital audio port will output a digital audio signal on an analog channel (cable)? In other words, does it convert the analog audio signal to digital (PCM for example)? Or is the digital audio output dead when you are tuned to an analog channel?

dbburns

09-13-06, 02:20 PM

Any idea as to how long it will take for Costco to sell this new model?

RatedR

09-13-06, 02:23 PM

Nice find on the coupon..thanks!

RatedR

09-13-06, 02:24 PM

Sorry, double post..Stupid browser.

Dan203

09-13-06, 03:00 PM

bierboy

09-13-06, 03:28 PM

Weaknees has just posted preliminary S3 hard drive upgrade info (http://www.wkblog.com/). Up to 98 HD hours; up to 927 SD hours...no prices yet.

spiff72

09-13-06, 03:29 PM

Yes it does. Just like the TiVo's with built in DVD-RW drives.

Dan

Thanks, Dan

spiff72

09-13-06, 03:29 PM

Weaknees has just posted preliminary S3 hard drive upgrade info (http://www.wkblog.com/). 98 HD hours; 927 SD hours...no prices yet.

Wow they're quick...

mterzich

09-13-06, 04:29 PM

That would be nice BUT it wouldn't be worth that much if down the road TIVO went belly up and the program guides got discontinued as a result. As much as I like to save money, I can live with a periodic recurring fee if it serves to ensure the continued upkeep of the program guides.
Since TVIO series 3 does not require a phone line, how do they get the TVIO Guide information over the cable network? Are they just using the cable supplied guide information? Without a phone line, how is the subscription fee enforced?

dravenstone

09-13-06, 04:35 PM

they require either a phone line or a network connection (wired or wirless). The guide data and subscription information is done via the tivo servers, not the cable.

mterzich

09-13-06, 04:44 PM

they require either a phone line or a network connection (wired or wirless). The guide data and subscription information is done via the tivo servers, not the cable.
Thanks. Didn't realize that they required an internet connection.

bidger

09-13-06, 05:58 PM

Wow they're quick...
It's their livelihood.

dssturbo1

09-13-06, 06:08 PM

CC sent the email with fedex tracking#. Preliminary tracking shows express delivery by3pm Thursday. Will see later this evening if it is actually picked up and on route.

spiff72

09-13-06, 06:16 PM

CC sent the email with fedex tracking#. Preliminary tracking shows express delivery by3pm Thursday. Will see later this evening if it is actually picked up and on route.

I have a tracking number too, showing estimated delivery on the 14th. The tracking info doesn't show it picked up by FedEx yet (just shows package data transmitted at 9:13am).

EDIT: FedEx just picked it up - in Marion, Illinois. Shhesh - I am in Michigan, so I probably could have had it next day if I had paid for just the standard shipping!

bierboy

09-13-06, 06:57 PM

I have a tracking number too, showing estimated delivery on the 14th. The tracking info doesn't show it picked up by FedEx yet (just shows package data transmitted at 9:13am).

EDIT: FedEx just picked it up - in Marion, Illinois. Shhesh - I am in Michigan, so I probably could have had it next day if I had paid for just the standard shipping!
Don't feel too bad, spiff. Consider this -- I ordered mine from CC yesterday, paid only $10 for two day shipping, and missed the FedEx delivery truck at my house by 15 minutes at lunch today. My wife had gone shopping; there was no one home; and FedEx required a signature. If either one of us had been home today, I'd be playing with it right now instead of typing this stupid post :(

bierboy

09-13-06, 07:18 PM

Weakness now has pricing on its S3 upgrade kits here. (http://www.weaknees.com/series-3-hd-tivo-tcd648250b.php)

spiff72

09-13-06, 07:18 PM

Don't feel too bad, spiff. Consider this -- I ordered mine from CC yesterday, paid only $10 for two day shipping, and missed the FedEx delivery truck at my house by 15 minutes at lunch today. My wife had gone shopping; there was no one home; and FedEx required a signature. If either one of us had been home today, I'd be playing with it right now instead of typing this stupid post :(

That sucks - when that happens to me (for FedEx), I can go pick it up after 4pm from their office near my work. Trouble is, I have to go home and get the door tag, and then drive another half hour back to their facility. It still beats waiting another day.

This is why I have almost everything shipped to my office if I think it needs a signature.

bierboy

09-13-06, 07:55 PM

That sucks - when that happens to me (for FedEx), I can go pick it up after 4pm from their office near my work. Trouble is, I have to go home and get the door tag, and then drive another half hour back to their facility. It still beats waiting another day.

This is why I have almost everything shipped to my office if I think it needs a signature.I tried that, but it was FedEx Home delivery, and the drivers take their trucks home. FedEx Express delivery drivers take their trucks back to the facility each night. Usually, my wife is home, but she was out grocery shopping at the time....oh well....I think I may have to come home from work early tomorrow...I'll be feeling a bit "under the weather".

GetGray

09-13-06, 08:14 PM

bierboy

09-13-06, 08:17 PM

What bites is you guys are getting yours before me. And I pointed everyone to the coupon after I ordered mine :mad:. Mine's not scheduled to ship till tomorrow :(. Must be a difference in warehouses or something. pfft.Don't feel too bad; I ordered mine before you posted the coupon info, so I missed the 10% off :rolleyes: .

GetGray

09-13-06, 08:19 PM

GetGray

09-13-06, 08:20 PM

Don't feel too bad; I ordered mine before you posted the coupon info, so I missed the 10% off :rolleyes: .Well that almost makes me feel better. Damn bleeding edge :)

bierboy

09-13-06, 08:21 PM

Well that almost makes me feel better. Damn bleeding edge :)I hear you and feel your pain (or, more accurately, my savings account feels the pain).

keenan

09-13-06, 08:57 PM

I ordered mine direct from TiVo yesterday. Called today about ship date and was told they would ship Thursday.

spiff72

09-13-06, 09:05 PM

I ordered mine direct from TiVo yesterday. Called today about ship date and was told they would ship Thursday.

It really doesn't make sense to me that they are shipping from Circuit City before Tivo ships them. I am glad I double ordered (and got the coupon thanks to GetGray). I will try to refuse shipment of the one I ordered from Tivo.

dssturbo1

09-13-06, 09:14 PM

mine updated like spiff, fedex picked up out of Marion, IL delivery by 3 pm thursday. My fedex driver better give me time to get to the door. I may do yard work so i make sure i dont miss him, lol.

Weakness is just capitialising on the got have bigger and now demand.
someone else saw the 750gb seagate for like $328
Pretty sure it uses linux/tivo software. Wonder how long they hold back an instacake S3 CD??

Gary J

09-13-06, 09:24 PM

What happens with these machines when cablecard2 comes out?

keenan

09-13-06, 09:27 PM

The S3 is multistream CC capable IIRC.

danieljw

09-13-06, 09:31 PM

It really doesn't make sense to me that they are shipping from Circuit City before Tivo ships them. [...]

Yes, it is weird. What is weirder is that I read a post on the Tivo Community forums by someone who walked into their local Fry's and not only saw stock of the S3 on the shelf (!) but one set up with an HDTV for people to play with. So, at least Tivo definitely got them out there. Now I suspect they're ready to collect!

jacksonian

09-13-06, 10:46 PM

What happens with these machines when cablecard2 comes out?
The S3 is multistream CC capable IIRC.
If I'm not mistaken, cable card ver. 2.0 is different from multistream cable card. CC2.0 will over 2-way communication for guide data and PPV ordering. The S3 will work with multistream CC1 cards, but not with CC2.0 cards (since that spec hasn't even been finalized yet and from what I understand will not be a software upgradeable issue).

rosenkavalier

09-14-06, 12:21 AM

re: WN upgrades... $600 for a 750G HD - Yikes!. Seagate 750's are $400 at Newegg today. Surely it's not too hard to swap'em. Using a image tool, transfer the image, expand the partition? What filesystem do they use? Interesting to try while under CC warranty ;). Unless there's the ubiquitous "seal" to break to get it open.

In the past, Weaknees has been an excellent source for do-it-yourself TiVo hacks, and his post on his blog does suggest that he'll be posting the methods behind his drive replacement, just as he's done in the past. If it requires manufacturing/machining anything new, he'll also sell you just those parts that are needed.

The admittedly high cost for having it done by Weaknees buys you two things: 1) not having to worry about or even learn how to do the drive swap and upgrade process yourself; and 2) a warranty on the upgraded unit through Weaknees. (The DIY internal hack voids the TiVo warranty, which means you'd have to pay whatever price TiVo asked to get it fixed if anything went wrong with the unit after you opened the case.) For some folks, those two items would be worth the price premium.

spiff72

09-14-06, 08:02 AM

If I'm not mistaken, cable card ver. 2.0 is different from multistream cable card. CC2.0 will over 2-way communication for guide data and PPV ordering. The S3 will work with multistream CC1 cards, but not with CC2.0 cards (since that spec hasn't even been finalized yet and from what I understand will not be a software upgradeable issue).

You aren't mistaken ;)

GetGray

09-14-06, 08:12 AM

In the past, Weaknees has been an excellent source for do-it-yourself TiVo hacks, and his post on his blog does suggest that he'll be posting the methods behind his drive replacement, just as he's done in the past. If it requires manufacturing/machining anything new, he'll also sell you just those parts that are needed.

The admittedly high cost for having it done by Weaknees buys you two things: 1) not having to worry about or even learn how to do the drive swap and upgrade process yourself; and 2) a warranty on the upgraded unit through Weaknees. (The DIY internal hack voids the TiVo warranty, which means you'd have to pay whatever price TiVo asked to get it fixed if anything went wrong with the unit after you opened the case.) For some folks, those two items would be worth the price premium.
COol. But do you mean WN "takes over" the warranty of teh entire box if you upgrade it using one of their drives and the box "dies"? I suppose that would be of value. But it will be almost moot if (when?) Tivo enables that external drive port.

spiff72

09-14-06, 08:15 AM

Has TiVo stated that you can use the eSATA port with any drive, or do you need to use a "special" drive (pre-blessed or pre-installed file system) that you would have to buy from TiVo?

bierboy

09-14-06, 10:07 AM

Has TiVo stated that you can use the eSATA port with any drive, or do you need to use a "special" drive (pre-blessed or pre-installed file system) that you would have to buy from TiVo?I don't believe they have. I expect they will when that port is enabled. And I'm hearing it may be when KidZone is enabled in November. Just hearsay at this point.

spiff72

09-14-06, 11:02 AM

spiff72

09-14-06, 11:04 AM

bfdtv

09-14-06, 11:05 AM

Has TiVo stated that you can use the eSATA port with any drive, or do you need to use a "special" drive (pre-blessed or pre-installed file system) that you would have to buy from TiVo?
Originally, back at CES in January, they said you would need a special drive with a pre-installed file system. However, a few months ago, Tivo said they abandoned that plan and would just support off-the-shelf SATA drives. They said they don't want to get into the hard drive business.

bierboy

09-14-06, 11:05 AM

On a side note, does anyone here have an older Series 2 (the one without the big nightlight on the front)?

I ask because I noticed a major interface speed hit after the latest software update (the one that added KidZone). Sometimes when I first hit the "Guide" button, it takes 5-10 seconds for the guide to appear on screen (but the "boop" sound happens as soon as you press the button). Am I the only one seeing this slowdown?
I have the pre-nightlight S2 and, yes, the latest software update did slow it down. I'm not sure mine is as slow as yours seems to be, but I'm looking forward to going to v8.XXX with the S3. I've also read in TCF that there's an update just around the corner for the S2s that will iron out some of the sluggishness.

bfdtv

09-14-06, 11:07 AM

If I set it up tonight (Guided Setup) without cablecards in it, and then I get the cablecards added tommorrow afternoon, will I have to repeat the guided setup again (since the channel numbers will all be different)?
Probably. I wouldn't setup all your season passes until you get the CableCard installed.

dravenstone

09-14-06, 11:07 AM

Am I the only one seeing this slowdown?

Nope, you are not even close to alone. I'm suffering the same performance hits, as are many (MANY!) folks over on TCF's. While I recognize that Tivo feels that have to stay one step ahead of the competition, they are doing so at the expense of the core DVR functions. I want the UI to be snappy when I bring up the guide, hit FF/RW etc. Honesty, things now are so slow I don't moan every time I use the SA8300 HD the way I used to...

bierboy

09-14-06, 11:08 AM

I am waiting for my S3 to show up today, but I have a question...

If I set it up tonight (Guided Setup) without cablecards in it, and then I get the cablecards added tommorrow afternoon, will I have to repeat the guided setup again (since the channel numbers will all be different)?

I don't intend to set up any season passes tonight, but I am wondering how much I should do before the cablecards are added.

ThanksSeems like I read in MegaZone's review of the S3 (or maybe somewhere else?) that GS would have to be repeated with a CC install.

This morning before leaving for work, I wrote down all my SPs in preparation for the S3 setup later today. I only have about 20, so it's not a huge deal. I suspect that number will grow with the S3 :D

spiff72

09-14-06, 11:54 AM

Well, it made it here apparently unscathed, despite the fact that CC just slapped a FedEx shipping label right on the original TiVo box (no "double boxing").

I am ready to go home and hook this baby up!

bierboy

09-14-06, 12:04 PM

scsiraid

09-14-06, 12:10 PM

The wife just called -- ours arrived about an hour ago....I'm feeling ill....don't know if I can continue working today....(cough) (cough).....

No double box either, so I'm really glad FedEx did NOT leave it on my porch yesterday!

Sounds like you are getting a case of 'intentional' flu.... Better head home so you dont infect others!!!!

bierboy

09-14-06, 12:20 PM

Sounds like you are getting a case of 'intentional' flu.... Better head home so you dont infect others!!!!
Thank you, Doctor! (will you sign my note?)

scsiraid

09-14-06, 12:33 PM

Thank you, Doctor! (will you sign my note?)

Absolutely....

Rx... Take 27 Season Passes and call me next week....

GT1Boy

09-14-06, 12:43 PM

No double box on my Series 3 from CC either. I had selected $5.57 3 day shipping with an estimated delivery date of 9/18 from IL to OR, but to my surprise it showed up this morning. I had it shipped to my office so that someone could sign for it or it wouldn't just sit on my doorstep at home. 5 co-workers gathered around and said "oooh" and "aaah" as I opened it. I think I'm feeling a little ill as well... :D

hongerelli

09-14-06, 12:44 PM

dbburns

09-14-06, 01:03 PM

I'm sorry for these newb questions, but I feel I would get a more accurate answer from you guys than a Tivo customer service rep if I called their 877 number.

If you don't buy these things direct from Tivo, can you still get the multi-year plan deals? Say I buy the unit at Circuit City, who do I buy the $299 three-year subscription plan from? Does that issue/option come up during set-up of the Tivo3, or is it only for customers who buy direct from Tivo at time of Series 3 purchase? If the answer is the latter, then if I buy at CC and hook it up, does it ask for my credit card number and bill me monthly?

Also, I notice it has a single antenna input. Does the signal get split within the unit, or does it maintain full, single-line strength to both tuners within the unit? I will not be using this thing with cable, at least not for the foreseeable future, so this is of concern to me.

Thanks guys,
Dave

GetGray

09-14-06, 02:11 PM

tumult

09-14-06, 02:17 PM

for people posting reviews, don't forget to post your location and what cable company you use. I'm curious as to how Houston Time Warner Cable Cards will work with this tivo.

thanks,

tum

spiff72

09-14-06, 02:50 PM

michaelk

09-14-06, 03:58 PM

. . . $800! Are you kidding me?! I currently have a Comcast DVR and I agree with everyone that the operating systems is so inferior to TIVO's. However, $800 for a piece of hardware?! I know I'll probably get a lot of grief for this post, but I'm sorry TIVO's business model is terrible. They simply do not have Apple's IPOD brand equity to be able to make money off hardware. What they should do is take the strategy of cell phone carriers and essentially sell the units at a loss/discount and lock in subscribers with long term contracts. That would build up customer loyalty especially once people realize what a great system TIVO is. I'd rather stick with my terrible comcast OS for $10 a month rather than pay $800 then an additional $12.95 a month for the service. Just another reason to be bearish on TIVO's stock.

dont judge their day 1 pricing as written in stone.

they essentially do what you suggest with their SD units (the series2 )- there is a singificant pent up demand for these boxes and there's enough people willing to buy all of the inital production at the $800 price point. Just read the posts befor eyours.

Once they sell to everyone that wants one for $800 then they'll drop the price. Likely shortly after the holiday season when demand drops down they will allow their constant $150 rebates to this box too and the MSRP will become $650. They'll pick off all the people at that point who want to pay that price point and then they'll drop it again.

The first 14 hour series 1 single tuner SD Tivo box cost well over a grand when it first came out. In a year or 2 it could be had for 200 dollars. Today you can get a second generation SD unti with dual tuners and all the features developed over the past 5 years like multi room viewing for like $30 out of pocket if you want.

THe price will drop, the only question is how fast and how low.

I'll bet you a series 3 that come June 1, 2007 the MSRP (minus any rebates) is no were near $799 for a 250 hour box.

michaelk

09-14-06, 04:03 PM

Is this true:?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8417071&&#post8417071

Basically I get out of that, that he says the S3 won't do "guide based" recording of QAM cable. True?, can someone elaborate? What about OTA?? I planned to turn off Comcast's HD channels and get my HD OTA since all the HD(TV) I watch is on OTA channels.

Thanks, Scott

part of what the cable card does is tell the Set top box what channel to map the QAM channels to. Without a cablecard installed the guide wont match the QAM linup (channel 100 might really be located on QAM channel 120 for example). The box will be able to match it's quide info to all analog channels and all OTA channels with or without a cablecard.

But to get correct guide info for QAM it will need a cablecard.

If you only want OTA and ANALOG cable you'll be sitting pretty.

But comcast charges ZERO for cablecards so if you want digital cable without HD it will cost you nothing extra for the cablecards to run the box.

spiff72

09-14-06, 04:10 PM

part of what the cable card does is tell the Set top box what channel to map the QAM channels to. Without a cablecard installed the guide wont match the QAM linup (channel 100 might really be located on QAM channel 120 for example). The box will be able to match it's quide info to all analog channels and all OTA channels with or without a cablecard.

But to get correct guide info for QAM it will need a cablecard.

If you only want OTA and ANALOG cable you'll be sitting pretty.

But comcast charges ZERO for cablecards so if you want digital cable without HD it will cost you nothing extra for the cablecards to run the box.

You will need to make sure that the channels that you want to receive with the cablecard are channels that you are authorized to receive according to your account/billing. For example, if you happen to get a channel like ESPN-HD, and for some odd reason they broadcast this in the clear, even though it should be subscription-based, you might lose that channel. For channels that are in the clear and are "freely" available to any subscriber, you should still get these OK (like the local HD's).

I had a CC installed in a TV last week that wouldn't pair, and the installer didn't have any extras. He left it in the TV, and I am getting it replaced tomorrow. I am able to tune digital channels like 783 (the local ABC affiliate's HD channel), even though the card isn't properly paired/authorized. Other channels say "NOT AUTHORIZED" even though I actually do subscribe to them.

spiff72

09-14-06, 04:13 PM

I might just set a record for my area. After tomorrow, I will have a total of 5 cablecards on my account! Two in TV's, one in my Sony HDDVR, and two in the TiVo...

I hope they bring spares tomorrow in case they can't get one to pair again. I don't want to waste another half day of vacation to wait for the cable guy.

09-14-06, 06:22 PM

I might just set a record for my area. After tomorrow, I will have a total of 5 cablecards on my account! Two in TV's, one in my Sony HDDVR, and two in the TiVo...
.

Is this with Comcast? My understanding was only the first one was free, and only then if it was instead of the bundled cable box.

spiff72

09-14-06, 08:53 PM

Is this with Comcast? My understanding was only the first one was free, and only then if it was instead of the bundled cable box.

No I am with Charter. None of my CC's are free - they charge $1.50 each per month.

jjarmoc

09-14-06, 09:14 PM

keenan

09-14-06, 09:22 PM

Just got the following email from TiVo. Ordered the unit the very first morning, early in fact. Now I have to see if they'll do Sat delivery, otherwise I have to cancel the Comcast visit for Mon--I just knew this was going to happen... :( :p

Dear TiVo Customer,

Thank you for your TiVo Store purchase. Unfortunately, due to excessive
order volumes for the TiVo Series3 HD Digital Media Recorder, your
shipment has been delayed. We will be refunding all shipping charges to
your account. The credit should post to your account within 3-7 business
days.

Please be assured we will be shipping your order no later than Friday,
9/15/06. You will receive a shipment confirmation email with the
tracking information at that time. We sincerely apologize for any
inconveniences this may have caused. In the meantime, if you have any further
questions or concerns, please feel free to contact us at (877) 367-8486.

Best regards,

TiVo Customer Support

Does anyone know exactly where TiVo is shipping from? Is it Alviso, or are they drop shipping from somewhere else?

spiff72

09-14-06, 09:41 PM

Chicago area Comcast (Hanover Park, IL - Schaumburg head end.)

Cable Card monthly cost - 1st is free, 2nd is $5.99/mo. $35.98 install fee for each card. I was told that self installation is prohibited by 'federal regulation' which I'm 99% sure is a lie. My CC install is scheduled for 10/9... you'd think for $70 they could get out here sooner.

Wow - Charter has never charged me for installation of any of these CC's. They refuse to allow self installs, also. I have also rescheduled tomorrow's appointment twice now, and they have been very easy to deal with. I just called them Wednesday night, and was able to set up an appointment for Friday afternoon.

bierboy

09-14-06, 10:47 PM

Just got the following email from TiVo. Ordered the unit the very first morning, early in fact. Now I have to see if they'll do Sat delivery, otherwise I have to cancel the Comcast visit for Mon--I just knew this was going to happen... :( :p

Does anyone know exactly where TiVo is shipping from? Is it Alviso, or are they drop shipping from somewhere else?The TiVoCommunityForum is humming with many upset people who received the same e-mail.

keenan

09-14-06, 10:54 PM

The TiVoCommunityForum is humming with many upset people who received the same e-mail.
Yes, I've been following that. I think I've found one locally, and if I have, I call and cancel with TiVo in the AM.

hongerelli

09-15-06, 12:31 AM

dont judge their day 1 pricing as written in stone.

they essentially do what you suggest with their SD units (the series2 )- there is a singificant pent up demand for these boxes and there's enough people willing to buy all of the inital production at the $800 price point. Just read the posts befor eyours.

Once they sell to everyone that wants one for $800 then they'll drop the price. Likely shortly after the holiday season when demand drops down they will allow their constant $150 rebates to this box too and the MSRP will become $650. They'll pick off all the people at that point who want to pay that price point and then they'll drop it again.

The first 14 hour series 1 single tuner SD Tivo box cost well over a grand when it first came out. In a year or 2 it could be had for 200 dollars. Today you can get a second generation SD unti with dual tuners and all the features developed over the past 5 years like multi room viewing for like $30 out of pocket if you want.

THe price will drop, the only question is how fast and how low.

I'll bet you a series 3 that come June 1, 2007 the MSRP (minus any rebates) is no were near $799 for a 250 hour box.

Unfortunately, TIVO is targeting early adopters which most of the people on this forum are (especially since it's only compatible with a cable card, most regular people would have no clue what a cable card is). I think TIVO is drastically overestimating the "pent-up" demand for these units especially at $800. I would wager most of the market is already saturated with HD recorders from content providers such as comcast. When they see the price I highly doubt that TIVO will capture many of those people who only pay $10 a month for the service (even though the service sucks!). $12.95 a month on top of $800? I really don't think so. What happens when comcast DVR's utilize the TIVO software later in the year? POOOOFH! there goes the demand.

I love TIVO so much but they just don't get it. My point here is TIVO's competitive advantage is the OS. I'm sure the price will eventually drop, but a year is like an eternity in the business world. That's way too much time for competitors to come in, which they already have, and make improvements. Look at how Apple has a superior OS to Microsoft, but Microsoft realized that making money in the hardware biz was a losing strategy and they saturated the market with their OS and we know who won that war. Yes, TIVO's other DVR prices are low, but that hasn't stimulated demand and Wall Street has pummelled TIVO's share price (still in the pits). They seem to be making headway by signing licensing agreements, but the agreements are way too favorable for the content providers. Again, I reiterate that they just need to saturate the market with TIVO's OS by essentially giving the hardware away. I hope TIVO figures it out, because they are the BEST.
Message to TIVO: It's the OS stupid!

bfdtv

09-15-06, 01:23 AM

hong,

The simple reality is that HDTV DVR technology is expensive. It costs a lot to build the box and it costs a lot to make it work.

If you tamper with the Comcast 641x DVR from Motorola, you get hit with a ~$720 charge on your bill. If you want to buy the HR20 HDTV DVR from DirecTV, the price is about $810 (the quoted $399 is their base rental price -- you don't own it). If you live in Canada -- where several providers allow you to buy the DVR --- the cost of the SA DVR with 160Gb runs around $500. The Series3 has more hardware and software functionality built-in than all of these products.

According to reports, Best Buy pays about $500 for each Tivo Series3. That's probably not far off Tivo's build cost. Assuming that $500 is the wholesale price for all large orders, then you should definitely see it available for less from Internet vendors after the product is in wider distribution. Depending on how demand is in November, we may see Tivo offer the $150 mail-in rebate for Series3, just as they did for Series2 boxes. That said, I think it would be unrealistic to expect a HDTV DVR with comparable hardware at <$400 in the next year, simply because these boxes are so expensive to build.

I don't think there's much chance that Tivo is making money on this box by selling it at $500 to Best Buy, although they may make money on Series3 units ordered directly from them. I would wager that Tivo breaks even or loses a small amount on sales to retailers, and turns a small profit on sales through its own site.

keenan

09-15-06, 02:46 AM

The TiVoCommunityForum is humming with many upset people who received the same e-mail.
Picked one up at Best Buy Santa Rosa CA, there's one left in case anyone is interested.

Goofball

09-15-06, 03:09 AM

Picked one up at Best Buy Santa Rosa CA, there's one left in case anyone is interested.

Picked one up at Fry's Electronics in north Phoenix, AZ on Thunderchicken Rd. this afternoon. They had 6 on the shelf when I went in and 5 when I left. Probably won't be any hanging around too long though since nowhere else in town seems to have them on the shelves yet.

HD_Dude

09-15-06, 07:06 AM

If you don't buy these things direct from Tivo, can you still get the multi-year plan deals? Say I buy the unit at Circuit City, who do I buy the $299 three-year subscription plan from? Does that issue/option come up during set-up of the Tivo3, or is it only for customers who buy direct from Tivo at time of Series 3 purchase? If the answer is the latter, then if I buy at CC and hook it up, does it ask for my credit card number and bill me monthly?

Also, I notice it has a single antenna input. Does the signal get split within the unit, or does it maintain full, single-line strength to both tuners within the unit? I will not be using this thing with cable, at least not for the foreseeable future, so this is of concern to me.

Thanks guys,
Dave

Hi Dave...

I bought my S3 yesterday at Best Buy, not through Tivo. During setup, you get a screen for account activation. You can either go to the website they specify, or call them. I went to the website, and that's where I was given the pricing options...I chose the 3 years for $299...adds up to roughly $8 per month. And yes, Tivo will take your credit card.

As for the tuners, yes, one input for antenna, one for cable. But the antenna input feeds dual tuners, and using OTA I get great signals on both (all digital in my case).

spiff72

09-15-06, 07:55 AM

Yes, I've been following that. I think I've found one locally, and if I have, I call and cancel with TiVo in the AM.

Good luck cancelling your order. I ordered from Tivo, and then ordered another from Circuit City (and got it yesterday). When I called to cancel the Tivo order (the same day that I ordered it), they said they had no way to cancel it, and my best option would be to refuse delivery and then call and get an RMA number. :confused:

It was supposed to ship yesterday, but I haven't gotten any shipment notification yet (or one of those "delay" emails).

keenan

09-15-06, 10:40 AM

Good luck cancelling your order. I ordered from Tivo, and then ordered another from Circuit City (and got it yesterday). When I called to cancel the Tivo order (the same day that I ordered it), they said they had no way to cancel it, and my best option would be to refuse delivery and then call and get an RMA number. :confused:

It was supposed to ship yesterday, but I haven't gotten any shipment notification yet (or one of those "delay" emails).
Yeah, I figured that may happen, getting ready to call them in about 30 mins.

bierboy

09-15-06, 10:46 AM

TCF is reporting telephone hold times are 30 minutes or more. Must be a lot of folks trying to cancel or find out when they'll ship.

keenan

09-15-06, 11:29 AM

TCF is reporting telephone hold times are 30 minutes or more. Must be a lot of folks trying to cancel or find out when they'll ship.
I just called and the whole phone call took less than 10 mins, start to finish. I must have got lucky.

hongerelli

09-15-06, 11:45 AM

bfdtv

09-15-06, 12:27 PM

Sorry, but $800 plus $12.95 a month on top of that vs FREE and $10 a month. Not very compelling.
It's compelling to me.

Better picture on SD and HD channels with Series3 Tivo (verified).
Unmatched reliability of recording - it always records the right programs at the right time.
Twice the built-in HDTV recording capacity, with an eSATA port for drive expansion.
Seamless integration of off-air digital channels into guide with digital cable channels.

Faster and more responsive interface and DVR functions.

Much faster and easier commercial skipping - includes 30-sec skip and auto-skipback on FFW, with instant response (never any lag) on all DVR functions

Very intuitive to use -- contributes to high WAF.

Aesthetically pleasing hardware and software design ---- makes for very high WAF

Includes the best remote I've seen for DVR

Eliminates frustrations associated with cable company DVR to create a more pleasant and relaxing TV experience.

jones07

09-15-06, 12:34 PM

bfdtv,
If you don't tamper with the comcast DVR they give it to you for FREE and charge you for the service. Sorry, but $800 plus $12.95 a month on top of that vs FREE and $10 a month. Not very compelling.

Then you are not a big enuff Tivo fan. :p

And neither am I. I'm going to wait it out for the Comcast dvr with Tivo software

bierboy

09-15-06, 12:35 PM

Based on using a TiVo S2 (and now the S3) here are my responses...
It's compelling to me.

Better picture on SD and HD channels with Series3 Tivo (verified). - AGREED (better than the S2)
Unmatched reliability of recording - it always records the right programs at the right time. - AGREED
Twice the built-in HDTV recording capacity, with an eSATA port for drive expansion. - AGREED
Seamless integration of off-air digital channels into guide with digital cable channels. - AGREED

Faster and more responsive interface and DVR functions. - CAN'T COMMENT SINCE I'VE NEVER HAD A CABLE DVR

Much faster and easier commercial skipping - includes 30-sec skip and auto-skipback on FFW, with instant response (never any lag) on all DVR functions - CAN'T COMMENT SINCE I'VE NEVER HAD A CABLE DVR

Very intuitive to use -- contributes to high WAF. - AGREED

Aesthetically pleasing hardware and software design ---- makes for very high WAF - AGREED

Includes the best remote I've seen for DVR - CAN'T COMMENT SINCE I'VE NEVER HAD A CABLE DVR

Eliminates frustrations associated with cable company DVR to create a more pleasant and relaxing TV experience. - CAN'T COMMENT SINCE I'VE NEVER HAD A CABLE DVR

jones07

09-15-06, 12:39 PM

It's compelling to me.

[list=1] Better picture on SD and HD channels with Series3 Tivo (verified).

Verified by who? Link to this info Please

hongerelli

09-15-06, 12:49 PM

Then you are not a big enuff Tivo fan. :p

And neither am I. I'm going to wait it out for the Comcast dvr with Tivo software

true . . . true . . .

bfdtv

09-15-06, 12:56 PM

Verified by who? Link to this info Please
By me, A/B comparison with SA8300HD last night. The quality on analog recordings is much better as well. Also reported by several posters on Tivocommunity.

Going to A/B with the FiOS' Motorola box as soon as they come on Monday to install the CC.

jones07

09-15-06, 01:10 PM

I thought you meant it was "Verified" by some unbiased double blind test

bfdtv

09-15-06, 01:26 PM

I thought you meant it was "Verified" by a soom unbiased double blind test
Well, about the best you can do is have someone A/B the same channel on the same provider with the same HDMI switch to determine whether it is possible to consistently pick one input over the other for the greatest perceived detail and resolution. I was able to do that on several HD channels. It won't be possible to repeat the test this weekend, but perhaps next weekend I'll be able to invite some others over to see if they duplicate my findings. We didn't do a double-blind last night, but I could certainly do that next time.

For analog content, A/B wasn't considered as it's not even close, the Series3's highest setting is a significant step up from whatever the default encoding scheme is on the SA8300HD.

dbburns

09-15-06, 02:03 PM

It's nice to hear that the Series 3 has good quality HD picture. Perhaps there is something to that THX certification after all.

dravenstone

09-15-06, 02:05 PM

It's nice to hear that the Series 3 has good quality HD picture. Perhaps there is something to that THX certification after all.

Correct me if I'm wrong here but THX is audio only.

It's all good and everything, but the THX certification wouldn't have anything to do (directly) with the picture, only the audio.

bierboy

09-15-06, 02:14 PM

dmbatch

09-15-06, 02:17 PM

byancey

09-15-06, 02:22 PM

But comcast charges ZERO for cablecards so if you want digital cable without HD it will cost you nothing extra for the cablecards to run the box.

I already have 1 of those free (minus the $15 install fee) cablecards from Comcast in one of my HDTVs. Anybody know if the 2nd and 3rd CC from Comast are also free? I suspect a $5 monthly digtial outlet fee may apply for each of those...but I'd love to be wrong.

dbburns

09-15-06, 02:23 PM

That is, indeed, true. More about THX here. (http://www.thx.com/mod/techLib/homeTheatreFAQ.html)Ah, so it is. My bad. :o

I think what threw me off were those THX optimizer screens to adjust your video settings that accompany some DVDs.
http://www.thx.com/mod/products/dvd/brightness.html

dravenstone

09-15-06, 02:31 PM

Sorry if this has been answered before but I have a couple questions. The only TiVo's I've ever had were DirecTv compatible and the service came through them.

On the stand alone S3 with 2 cable cards - wouldn't the program guide be supplied by my provider? What does the $12.95 TiVo service buy me? Will the device not work without it?

The guide data is still supplied by the tivo servers. Remember the tivo UI is what you're using when you utilize the tivo, and that is driven by the guide data from the tivo service, not the cable co.
In fact, in PHX right now the SA boxes think that all the current House episodes are re-reruns (because the guide data is wrong) but the tivo knows better.

You can actually think of the cable cards (as they are used in an S3) as being fairly similar to your DBS access cards. They provide the ability to unscramble the content that your authorized to get. I think they also provide some assistance in mapping the channels as well, but I can't tell you exactly how that works.

bfdtv

09-15-06, 02:42 PM

On the stand alone S3 with 2 cable cards - wouldn't the program guide be supplied by my provider? What does the $12.95 TiVo service buy me? Will the device not work without it?
Like draven says, the Series3 uses guide data formatted specifically for Tivo, which it downloads from Tivo's server on the Internet, or by phone using an ISP (that Tivo pays for) if you don't have an Internet connection.

Every provider has unique guide data formatted for their particular system. Tivo offers the most comprehensive data available. However, even if your cable provider did offer guide data in a compatible format, the Series3 couldn't see it, because the current version of CableCard can't access or retrieve guide data.

HD_Dude

09-15-06, 02:46 PM

Ok, it's 2:50 now, and the Comcast technician has been trying to get the cablecards working in the new Tivo S3 for THREE HOURS!

Currently, he's running a new line from the pole, to make sure I'm getting sufficient signal.

No matter what we've tried, the CC sees the channel number and listing, but no picture!

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhggggggggggggggggggg

spiff72

09-15-06, 02:56 PM

HD_Dude

09-15-06, 03:04 PM

Thanks Spiff, I will...even though I thought I was doing the whole channel changing thing already....

On the other hand, it did an AWESOME job of recording CSI in high-def off my OTA last night....

I'll let you know whether Comcast can light it up.

spiff72

09-15-06, 03:07 PM

They are struggling a bit with mine now too. I am getting a 161-4 error, and it says to contact the cable provider to resolve the problem.

GetGray

09-15-06, 03:11 PM

If you don't tamper with the comcast DVR they give it to you for FREE and charge you for the service. Sorry, but $800 plus $12.95 a month on top of that vs FREE and $10 a month. Not very compelling.
You must not have ever used the Moto. Free isn't good enough. They ought to pay you to use it. It's the sorriest excuse for a device I've ever seen. I've been through 3 of them, they hang, lock up, lose programs, give you ads and generally...suck. I will gladly pay for the loss of anxiety the POS has caused me. I am not a TIVO fan, nor a fan of monthly charges. But after dealing with this thing, I was more than hapy to get a lifetime and a early adopter price just at a shot at getting an improved experience over what Comcast offers. Good luck with yours, or the wait. I'm tired of waiting.

cheneyp

09-15-06, 03:17 PM

They are struggling a bit with mine now too. I am getting a 161-4 error, and it says to contact the cable provider to resolve the problem.

Uh oh, sounds suspiciously like a Sony HDD DVR error message!

dmbatch

09-15-06, 03:26 PM

The guide data is still supplied by the tivo servers. Remember the tivo UI is what you're using when you utilize the tivo, and that is driven by the guide data from the tivo service, not the cable co.
In fact, in PHX right now the SA boxes think that all the current House episodes are re-reruns (because the guide data is wrong) but the tivo knows better.

You can actually think of the cable cards (as they are used in an S3) as being fairly similar to your DBS access cards. They provide the ability to unscramble the content that your authorized to get. I think they also provide some assistance in mapping the channels as well, but I can't tell you exactly how that works.

Thanks, that splains it.

So I guess the TiVo guide syncs up to the FiOS channel line-up some how. Maybe that's one of the functions of the CC.

shamste

09-15-06, 03:33 PM

They are struggling a bit with mine now too. I am getting a 161-4 error, and it says to contact the cable provider to resolve the problem.

Same error I got with my first CableCard in my TV. Luckily the tech brough an extra card "just in case" and it worked fine. Still waiting on my Series 3 though...

HD_Dude

09-15-06, 03:45 PM

slimoli

09-15-06, 04:05 PM

Spiff I've gotten that message too...Comcast had never heard of that error message.

So far my second card is apparently being read by the cable company...in the conditional access panel is says 'yes' next to cable provider (cp)

The first card continues to say 'no' there....on card number 2 now.

And so far, still getting channel listings, but a black picture.

Trying, trying.....

Welcome to the cablecard world. I don't have the S3 yet but I do have a lot of experience with cablecards. On my Mitsubishi 73927 I have already had 5 different cablecards replaced. It seems that every cablecard has its own "personality". I had several errors , all starting with "161" and the installation was always a real PITA.

For those still a virgin with cablecards:

-The cableguy will probably have little or no experience with possible glitches during installation. Ask the cableco to send 3 or 4 cablecards instead of 2. The chances of installing the first 2 without problems is not that big.

-Soon after you plug in the cablecard (or cablecards) you don't receive any picture from the digital channels. It takes 5 to 15 minutes for the channels to be "loaded" from the cableco. This is normal.

-2 of my cablecards just stopped working. My guess is that this is the cheapest possible piece of hardware that China can give us.

-Cablecards are much more sensitive to a good cable signal. Intallations with a lot of splits are prone to cause picture and sound dropouts.

-Cablecards have different software/firmware versions. I had some dated 2005 and the new ones are April 2006. I use SA cablecards.

Good luck! (you will need it!)

Sergio

jones07

09-15-06, 04:25 PM

Sounds like cablecards are not ready for prime time

spiff72

09-15-06, 04:43 PM

Tech just left about half an our ago...

Both cards are working (all digital subscribed channels are viewable) in my TiVo, but the person on the other end of the phone line when the tech called said that they had pairing errors. They THINK it might be from weak signal, or a bad DAC on their end.

I have cablecards in my TV and in my SOny HDD250, and they both say "Valid" next to the "Host validation" line. The TiVo cards both say "unknown" in this field. I hope this doesn't cause problems down the road.

The strange thing about this install is that it went EXACTLY like the failed install that was done a week ago for a Sony Bravia TV in our bedroom. They put the card in, called in the numbers, the TV was seeing all of the premium channels that it should, but they kept saying that the card wouldn't pair on the other end of the phone. They set up a reschedule, and as I was going through the menus on the TV, I accidentally pressed the "reset" instead of "show" on the cablecard menu. This knocked out all of my access to premium channels.

Today they were supposed to try another card in that TV too, but I wanted to start with the Tivo since it is the more important device to me. Once we got the Tivo into a state where all channels were visible, we went upstairs to try the other TV. He popped out the card, read the number on the card, put it back in, and we tried a premium channel. IT WORKED! We suspect that the "hits" and balancing that they did while we were trying to get the Tivo working might have restored the channels on the other TV.

I am still concerned that it wasn't done right, and they might have to come out again.

He thinks I might need an amp to supply enough signal for all 5 of my CC's (4 of which are on the same outlet in the house).

HD_Dude

09-15-06, 04:49 PM

Well, the Comcast tech....great guy, I must say....finally left w/o success.

The latest...both cablecards now read 'yes' next to 'cable provider...' that's something.

He left the cards in, so I could play with my settings.

I just did a restart, followed by a new guided setup...now for the first time, ever, the Tivo asked whether I get premium channels...and if so, which ones.

Could there be light at the end of the tunnel?

It's loading the guide now...I'll update afterwards...

ps. thanks for the info Sergio...and Spiff...good luck!

HD_Dude

09-15-06, 05:42 PM

Still nothing.

Advice? Should I try again? Or should I get in the 'return' line at Best Buy?

I have a few of the Sony HD DVR's...so I won't be totally deprived.

But....I had such high hopes!

One thing that never fails, however, is Pino Noir....that's going to go down so well 'bout now.

sharding

09-15-06, 06:56 PM

They are struggling a bit with mine now too. I am getting a 161-4 error, and it says to contact the cable provider to resolve the problem.

I activated my CableCards on Comcast over the phone this afternoon, after picking them up at a Comcast office. I got this message while activating also, but I just kept pressing "select" every time it came up. It seemed perfectly correlated with when the CSR said her signal went through. Despite these errors, it worked perfectly at the end. I'm getting all of the channels I should be on both cards, including the premiums I subscribe to. So I'm wondering if the error message is just bogus...

scsiraid

09-15-06, 07:01 PM

Cablecard question... Does the cablecard only get 'used' or 'reserved' by the S3 when watching or recording encrypted QAM? What I mean by this is... if I have only one cablecard installed, can I record 1 unencrypted QAM channel such as a local HD AND an encrypted QAM such as ESPNHD?

spiff72

09-15-06, 07:14 PM

I activated my CableCards on Comcast over the phone this afternoon, after picking them up at a Comcast office. I got this message while activating also, but I just kept pressing "select" every time it came up. It seemed perfectly correlated with when the CSR said her signal went through. Despite these errors, it worked perfectly at the end. I'm getting all of the channels I should be on both cards, including the premiums I subscribe to. So I'm wondering if the error message is just bogus...

Can you do me a quick favor when you get a chance?

Go into your cablecard menu, and pick either card, and look at the conditional access screen. What does it say near the bottom for the line that reads "Host Validation"?

Thanks in advance!

HD_Dude

09-15-06, 07:17 PM

Spiff, and everyone else....

I had to laugh when I was in 'support' at Tivo.com...and saw this passage:

" If you see error 161-4 during installation, you can ignore it. "

http://customersupport.tivo.com/knowbase/root/public/tv010416.htm?

Too funny...in a 'ya gotta laugh' kind of way.

spiff72

09-15-06, 07:17 PM

spiff72

09-15-06, 07:21 PM

Was anyone else surprised by the lack of a lengthy "movie" showing the TiVo dude zipping around? All we get is the dude in a spotlight taking a couple of bows!

The THX intro before that was pretty cool, though. I happened to be listening with the home theater at this point so I got the full effect. :)

HD_Dude

09-15-06, 07:49 PM

Suddenly, after just leaving it alone for an hour....

IT's WORKING!

Thanks to everyone for your help...

Now if you'll excuse me, I got some TIVO to watch!

(lovin' life)

slimoli

09-15-06, 08:01 PM

Suddenly, after just leaving it alone for an hour....

IT's WORKING!

Thanks to everyone for your help...

Now if you'll excuse me, I got some TIVO to watch!

(lovin' life)

Great job Dude! I was a bit concerned about your experience after so many troubles I had with cablecards before. I am now ready to jump in!

Sergio

HD_Dude

09-15-06, 08:05 PM

Thanks, Sergio,,,

Upon reflection...the last thing I did was a "total reset,' which wiped out everything...
and after that, it worked.

I had already tried "restarts' and 'guided setup.' To no avail.

But when I totally reset the whole unit...erasing all my settings and shows....it worked.

Hope this helps anyone who faces the same difficulties.

Thanks again!

keenan

09-15-06, 08:17 PM

By me, A/B comparison with SA8300HD last night. The quality on analog recordings is much better as well. Also reported by several posters on Tivocommunity.

Going to A/B with the FiOS' Motorola box as soon as they come on Monday to install the CC.
I agree, 100%. The PQ from the S3 is a definite improvement over the Comcast Moto 6412. You don't really notice it until you have something to compare it with, you get "used" to the output from the cable box. Switching back and forth while playing last night, there is no question in my mind, the S3 is more transparent than the 6412. Even usually horrible looking analog cable channels look better with S3. It's sort of like the very thinnest of veils was pulled off from over the image, like the picture has been rejuvenated.

Obviously, this is a subjective evaluation, and everyone will have differing results, but I'm very happy with it so far, can't wait to play with it so more tonight.

bierboy

09-15-06, 09:07 PM

I've been watching on a 51-inch Hitachi RPTV for the past couple years, so, when I hooked up the S3 last night and began watching analog cable, it was quite the difference I'm happy to say!

chipvideo

09-16-06, 12:20 PM

I just want to know how well it scales to 720p. I have a comcast 3412 right now and it sucks for scaling and deinterlacing.

Picture quality is all I care about on my HD channels.

spiff72

09-16-06, 12:41 PM

I noticed that when you change to a channel that happens to be what the other tuner is tuned to, it will switch tuners and take you to the already buffered version of the channel.

I did this with the channel up/down button as I was setting up my Harmony remote. Which is an adventure with all flavors of Tivos. Their remote codes are difficult to learn, especially since I had 2 tivos in the room and had to learn all of the commands from scratch on my S3 remote.

Does that make sense?

chipvideo

09-16-06, 12:41 PM

Couldn't wait. Just ordered one from CC. Now I look at their price plans and it is confusing. I see that you can get a 1 year gift subscription for a year wich comes to $12.95/month. That seems to be the cheapest way to go right?

I can't get the 3 year with 1 year free because I ordered from CC and not tivo.

Just need to figure out what my best option is for saving money now that I sunk damn near a grand into the box. LOL.

I just noticed that If I go for the 3 year plan and pick a box that cost $0 would I just not activate that box and use my series 3 instead? I guess I could use the other box as a paper weight as it is free?

spiff72

09-16-06, 12:50 PM

chipvideo

09-16-06, 12:52 PM

I just signed up for the $6.95/month option when I activated online (multi-service discount - we are still using the old S2 TiVo)...

This is my first ever tivo product. Only plan on using one. I can't afford to buy two hd tivos.

videobruce

09-16-06, 12:56 PM

spiff72

09-16-06, 01:15 PM

GT1Boy

09-16-06, 01:52 PM

chipvideo

09-16-06, 02:13 PM

chipvideo, you should still be able to get the three year prepay plan with one year free for $299 by going to http://www.tivo.com/activate even though you purchased it at CC. I'd recommend going with that plan so it's only $8.30/month.

Hey thanks. I will give that a shot when I recieve my box on tues. I just hope that the tivo box has good deinterlacing. My moto box sucks converting to 720p and my panny900 looks soft when sending it 1080i.

I just cant handle the pains of the moto3412 box and their crappy performance. Not only that in Seattle your stuck with microsoft sotftware. LOL.

I am sure this new tivo will produce a much better viewing experience over the moto3412 dvr. Would be nice to here some non biased reports about video quality compared to other cable box's.

videobruce

09-16-06, 03:41 PM

What do you mean by three models? The Series 3 is only available in one model. http://www.weaknees.com/series-3-hd-tivo.php

Three versions............

bierboy

09-16-06, 04:13 PM

Several things here --

TiVo WILL enable the eSATA port...supposed to come when KidZone for the S3 is enabled in November.

The three models you're referring to are Weakness' versions, and the only difference is internal HD size.

It's unknown at this time how "involved" it would be to swap out your internal HD, but be aware that will immediately void the TiVo warranty.

The internal temp reading on my S3 the past three days has been from 45-47C ("normal" according to TiVo).

sharding

09-16-06, 04:22 PM

Can you do me a quick favor when you get a chance?

Go into your cablecard menu, and pick either card, and look at the conditional access screen. What does it say near the bottom for the line that reads "Host Validation"?

Sorry, I just noticed this question. It says "Unknown 00."

spiff72

09-16-06, 05:43 PM

Sorry, I just noticed this question. It says "Unknown 00."

Thanks. That is what mine says too. This concerns me a little bit, since the cablecards in 2 of my devices (Mits TV and Sony HDDVR) say "Valid". The Sony TV that they set up along with the TiVo says "Unknown" as well.

spiff72

09-16-06, 07:37 PM

I just finished watching (chasing playback) the Michigan/Notre Dame game (GO BLUE!!!), and so far I cam very happy with the S3. The machine seems responsive, despite the fact that it was recording two things at once.

Chasing playback often seems like it was a contributing factor to lockups of my Sony HDD250 DVR. Tivo handled it fine.

The only "issue" that I have noticed is that when using the digital output fed into my AVR, the Tivo sound effects are not always present in the audio track (specifically the FF and REW sounds). Once you get into the Tivo menu, they come back (it appears that the Tivo outputs a PCM audio signal once you get into the menu). The audio was DD5.1 when there were no Tivo sounds.

dssturbo1

09-16-06, 07:52 PM

Questions:
1. How involved is it to replace and/or add your own HDD?
2. There is provision for an external HDD or is that the 2nd internal drive?
3. Can you use any drive (with the correct formatting)?
4. What type of format do these drives use?
5. Is the only difference between the three models the size of the HDDs'?
6. How 'hot' to these run and any idea on actual power consumption?

megazone and a couple others have opened them and seems to be pretty straight forward.
it is an internal sata drive, megazone reported it had a slightly different sata connector used by western digital supposed to be more secure connection. pretty sure weakness is using the seagate 750gb drive and not sure if they send a different connector or not sure it is covered with their HD kits.
i think it uses linux, hopefully weaknees will put out an instacake for the S3 after the initial big profit opportunity dies down for them.
yup as bierboy answered the only difference in the S3 complete units that weakness offers for sale is the hd size. but they have not gotten stock of any yet says the 22nd they think.

link to the the megazone FAQ and reviews and should answer better then my maybes supposed to etc hope it helped a little
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=315791

dssturbo1

09-16-06, 07:54 PM

spiff, would you have been as happy if michagan hadn't crushed or lost to nd?

sure you would you have a S3 when so many tivoers are out till next week :)

highvista

09-16-06, 08:18 PM

The only "issue" that I have noticed is that when using the digital output fed into my AVR, the Tivo sound effects are not always present in the audio track (specifically the FF and REW sounds). Once you get into the Tivo menu, they come back (it appears that the Tivo outputs a PCM audio signal once you get into the menu). The audio was DD5.1 when there were no Tivo sounds.It looks like this is a "feature". I noticed mention of it on one of the S3 Tivo menu screens in a review capture image at tivocommunity.com--the one where you select DD5.1 or PCM audio. It indicates that DD5.1 output won't include Tivo sounds.

spiff72

09-16-06, 11:43 PM

spiff, would you have been as happy if michagan hadn't crushed or lost to nd?

sure you would you have a S3 when so many tivoers are out till next week :)

Things couldn't be better: Michigan kicked ND's a$$es, and I got to watch it time-shifted on my brand new TiVo S3!

I am so glad I ordered from Circuit City after I ordered from Tivo. I still haven't gotten any shipping notice about the one I ordered (and couldn't cancel) from Tivo... They said it would ship Thursday.

HDHTPC

09-17-06, 01:20 AM

I got an email from TiVo confirming my S3 order, but they list my ship-to address as my billing address, and the billing address is listed as my ship-to (my work). Also, they had the county listed in place of the street address. I hope it is just a SNAFU with their email confirmation and not an actual problem with their database.

(Wishing I had run out and bought one retail now)

LaserGecko

09-17-06, 01:57 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong here but THX is audio only.
It's all good and everything, but the THX certification wouldn't have anything to do (directly) with the picture, only the audio.
That is, indeed, true. More about THX here.[/URL

Sorry, guys. That is, indeed, false.

THX Home Theatre certification most certainly does include video specs.

From the above link:
"THX DVD Player - performs to the highest audio and video standards. Consumers can expect to see improved resolution and color fidelity, finer detail, and reduced noise on any digital video disc."

and from [URL]http://www.thx.com/mod/products/performance.html (http://www.thx.com/mod/techLib/homeTheatreFAQ.html)
Pre-Amplifiers and Receivers
Video Path Switching
Video Level
Sync Level
Bar Tilt
Pulse/Bar Ration
K-Factor (K-2T)
Frequency Response Amplitude (0.5 to 4.2 MHz)
Group delay (0.5 to 4.2 MHz)
Chroma Gain
Chroma Delay
Differential Gain
Differential Phase
Noise
Video Conversion

I was quite surprised to see the THX logo on the Shanan-mercial since that's one thing I never saw mentioned in all the speculation.

More info directly from the horse's mouth:
THX's TiVo Page (http://www.thx.com/tivo/index.html)
"After the first TiVo box prototype was created, THX engineers analyzed it for frequency response, signal to noise ratios, color levels and deinterlacing (to name just a few tests), as well as other THX performance parameters. "

THX's Series 3 Press Release (http://www.thx.com/news/20060911A.html)

Dago Red

09-17-06, 09:45 AM

The only "issue" that I have noticed is that when using the digital output fed into my AVR, the Tivo sound effects are not always present in the audio track (specifically the FF and REW sounds). Once you get into the Tivo menu, they come back (it appears that the Tivo outputs a PCM audio signal once you get into the menu). The audio was DD5.1 when there were no Tivo sounds.
This is the way it has always been on the DirecTivo boxes. The Tivo sounds are disabled during any Dolby Digital stream. Once you switch back to PCM, including the Tivo menus, the sounds will be enabled again.

HD_Dude

09-17-06, 10:19 AM

THX Home Theatre certification most certainly does include video specs.

From the above link:
"THX DVD Player - performs to the highest audio and video standards. Consumers can expect to see improved resolution and color fidelity, finer detail, and reduced noise on any digital video disc."

Well, having been in broadcasting for 25 years, and having watched HD through the Sony SAT-HD100 and HD300, the DirecTV HR10-250, the Motorola 6412, and the Sony DHG-HDD250, I have to say....

The picture on the Tivo S3 is by far and away, the finest HD picture I have ever seen.

By comparison with the above models, it is absolutely breathtaking. The clarity of HD is even more clear, the colors more natural, yet vibrant, black levels blacker, highlights more sparkling....it's magnificent.

Could the THX certification play a role in this?

I am not a technician, but I do have a trained 'eye.' And the S3 just blows me away.

If THX is the reason, thanks THX.

Regardless, Bravo, Tivo!

keenan

09-17-06, 11:51 AM

videobruce

09-17-06, 12:05 PM

It's unknown at this time how "involved" it would be to swap out your internal HD, but be aware that will immediately void the TiVo warranty. Ok, then if something happens swap drives back.

chipvideo

09-17-06, 12:36 PM

I agree, it smokes the Moto 6412 hands down, the S3 is transparent, it's as if it's not even there allowing the full bandwidth/resolution of the signal being provided to be sent to the screen. It's one of the very first things I noticed about the unit after hooking it up.

Your descriptions match my observation as well, it's almost like the image has been rejuvenated, the "pop" is back. It's a shame in that it's one of those things you have to see to realize how badly the other equipment has been degrading the image, I had gotten used to the 6412 output but upon seeing the S3 output it was a revelation. The image quality is probably the thing I'm most excited about with the unit.

Thats good to hear. That is the biggest reason for me changing from the 3412 along with all its other problems. I love the passthrough option. I just want to know how well it converts 1080i to 720P. Also can you change the resolution while watching a program instead of the stupid way the 3412 made you turn it off and go into the menu.

Gosh I am excited to see what this thing does.

scsiraid

09-17-06, 01:41 PM

bierboy

09-17-06, 01:44 PM

Well, having been in broadcasting for 25 years, and having watched HD through the Sony SAT-HD100 and HD300, the DirecTV HR10-250, the Motorola 6412, and the Sony DHG-HDD250, I have to say....

The picture on the Tivo S3 is by far and away, the finest HD picture I have ever seen.

By comparison with the above models, it is absolutely breathtaking. The clarity of HD is even more clear, the colors more natural, yet vibrant, black levels blacker, highlights more sparkling....it's magnificent.

Could the THX certification play a role in this?

I am not a technician, but I do have a trained 'eye.' And the S3 just blows me away.

If THX is the reason, thanks THX.

Regardless, Bravo, Tivo!I second that! PQ is quite amazing, and the tuner is much more sensitive. I had been using the Sammy SIR-T151, and the S3 blows it out of the water. I would have to swing my CM4221 around tp the NW (from being aimed at a tower farm SE) to lock in a DT only 8 miles away. Now, I'm picking up that NW on the backside of the antenna with an 85 percent signal strength (according to the S3 signal strength "meter").

JFKLS1

09-17-06, 03:31 PM

I have to say that this is the best thing since sliced bread. I got mine yesterday and it took about 2 hours to get all hooked up and running. I am only using it for OTA HD and the picture to my BENQ PE8700+ on a 115 inch screen is astounding. It does look much better than my HDD250. I have never had a TIVO before and was not looking forward to the fee but the way this thing functions I have to say it is well worth it. It downloaded 2 weeks of guide data from a wireless USB adapter in a matter of a couple of minutes. I can't wait for 24 to start..... :)

spiff72

09-17-06, 03:34 PM

Does anyone out there know if the TiVo wireless G adapter supports WPA encryption? I moved my S2 to the bedroom, but had to go back to the phone connection. I would like to put a wireless G adapter in there, but my network uses WPA rather than WEP. I don't want to go back to WEP just for TiVo.

JohnCalif

09-17-06, 04:10 PM

keenan

09-17-06, 04:21 PM

I have read that an S3 without cable cards can record "clear QAM" HD channels by setting a manual recording. Has anyone tried this yet? If so, is it possible to set a weekly recurring recording on a clear QAM HD channel?
I tried manual the other day and it works, I didn't check to see if a recurring recording could be set though, I'm almost certain that it does.

keenan

09-17-06, 04:26 PM

Thats good to hear. That is the biggest reason for me changing from the 3412 along with all its other problems. I love the passthrough option. I just want to know how well it converts 1080i to 720P. Also can you change the resolution while watching a program instead of the stupid way the 3412 made you turn it off and go into the menu.

Gosh I am excited to see what this thing does.
I don't have a 720p display so I can't say how well it does. As far as changing the rez while viewing a program, I'd have to check(watching Sunday Ticket from DirecTV right now) but I'm not sure why you'd want to do that. With native passthrough the resolution automatically changes to whatever rez the station/network is sending and then your display will scale/de-interlace if needed. With the Comcast box everything is sent at one resolution, and it doesn't do a very good job of it at all.

keenan

09-17-06, 04:28 PM

Wonder how it compares to the Scientific Atlanta 8300 DVR in this respect. I do know that a cablecard in the TV looks better than the 8300 so hopefully the S3 will have the same advantage.
It does, that's what it reminds me of, just a direct connection to the display, or how a good QAM tuner in a display will look. Cable boxes are notorious for mangling the signal, not so with the S3.

dbburns

09-17-06, 05:36 PM

Anyone who upgraded from a Samsung SIR-T165 or an LG LST-3410A care to share how the PQ compares to either of those HD receivers?

JFKLS1

09-17-06, 06:24 PM

I have watched Las Vegas on NBC which shows as 1080i and I have mine set to output 720p to my BENQ projector. It looked wonderful but I still think FOX looks the best.

rwchad

09-17-06, 06:48 PM

I just added an outdoor HDTV antenna and repeated guided setup - I now have two of each cable channel - anyone figured out how to selectively add newly discovered channels? Seems like all or nothing...

I will have to do this again after Comcast brings my two CCs tomorrow (assuming they pair properly)

:(

kucharsk

09-17-06, 07:58 PM

Ok, then if something happens swap drives back.That's assuming there are no tamper-proof seals that need to be broken to access the drive, which I suspect there are.

videobruce

09-18-06, 08:51 AM

As long as they aren't the type that separate leaving part of the printing behind, you can use a heat gun to soften the adhesive and peal the label from the case lifting the edge of the lable using a clean single sided razor blade.

optivity

09-18-06, 09:24 AM

Are cable TV providers authorizing TiVo Series 3 HD DVRs for use with CableCARD(s)? If so, what is the monthly cost with Time Warner for the TiVo service & program guide?

scsiraid

09-18-06, 09:31 AM

Are cable TV providers authorizing TiVo Series 3 HD DVRs for use with CableCARD(s)? If so, what is the monthly cost with Time Warner for the TiVo service & program guide?

Some are and others are too stupid to realize that they are required to by law.

The best place to find out what is going on with S3 is in the Tivo Community Forum.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=51

chipvideo

09-18-06, 12:39 PM

I don't have a 720p display so I can't say how well it does. As far as changing the rez while viewing a program, I'd have to check(watching Sunday Ticket from DirecTV right now) but I'm not sure why you'd want to do that. With native passthrough the resolution automatically changes to whatever rez the station/network is sending and then your display will scale/de-interlace if needed. With the Comcast box everything is sent at one resolution, and it doesn't do a very good job of it at all.

I just wonder if the deinterlacing in the new tivo is better than my panny900u FP.

I hope that it is. I just want to know if it deinterlaces it to 1080p and then scales it to 720p or if it deinterlaces 1080i to 540p and then up to 720p like lots of cheaper units.

Replacement

09-18-06, 01:28 PM

Does the S3 come with any cables? Such as a HDMI.

*(EDIT)*
I found the answer to my question, here are the calbles that come with it;

Power cable
Phone line
Phone splitter
Coaxial RF
A/V cable (composite video, RCA stereo)
Component Video (Y, Pb, Pr)
HDMI

DiscounTech

09-18-06, 02:09 PM

We are performing integration testing between the Tivo Series 3 HD DVR and our neTegriti eSATA drive expansion kits. We are looking for 5 beta testers to assist us with field testing and evaluation. We will be offering a 50% refund to the testers that provide full reports and that keep the external drives. Is there anyone on this forum interested in helping us, that has a Tivo series 3 already installed (or very soon to be installed)?

We have had very good sucess with integrating our Scientific Atlanta upgrades that we have shared in the 8300HD forum. We'd like to do the same for the Tivo.

Please contact me:
Jesse Menczer - DiscounTechnology
tivoseries3@discountechnology.com
Tivo Series 3 DVR eSATA kits (http://discountechnology.com/Products/Servers-Accessories-Upgrades?search=dvr)

Thanks,

Jesse.

spiff72

09-18-06, 02:18 PM

dravenstone

09-18-06, 02:18 PM

DiscounTech

09-18-06, 02:22 PM

keenan

09-18-06, 02:22 PM

Responded also, but unless Discount Tech know something we don't know we won't be able to do much testing.

spiff72

09-18-06, 02:31 PM

bierboy

09-18-06, 02:54 PM

It seems I have my information wrong...

The eSATA port still is not active. However, we'd like to find 5 savvy and interested users to assist us =as soon= as they release firmware with the esata port enabled. Please get in touch.

Regards,

Jesse.My question would be -- what happens if, in the process of this beta, it screws up our TiVo Series 3? Are we voiding the TiVo warranty if we participate since it's not a TiVo-sanctioned activity?

mfogarty5

09-18-06, 04:02 PM

Sounds like cablecards are not ready for prime time

No.

CableCards aren't the problem, cable companies are. They don't want you to use CalbeCards because it limits their revenue since you can't buy PPV movies and events using the remote.

The ONLY reason CableCards are a reality is because the FCC FORCED CABLE COMPANIES TO USE THEM.

keenan

09-18-06, 04:23 PM

Had Comcast here a few hours ago and the install went painlessly. Only the first card came up with the 161-4 error, but you just pass through that, and the rest went fine.

Now I'll be getting ready to do battle with the cable company over the monthly cost when I return the 6412.

mfogarty5

09-18-06, 04:27 PM

Now I'll be getting ready to do battle with the cable company over the monthly cost when I return the 6412.

That's the question I have asked many times, but can't get the answer to. If the cable company ties digital service with the set top box, shouldn't CableCard users get a credit on their bill for the monthly cost of the set top box?

optivity

09-18-06, 05:19 PM

dravenstone

09-18-06, 05:30 PM

I wonder how long cable providers will attempt to forestall CableCARD support for the HD TiVo Series 3 DVR? They can’t be too happy that CATV subscribers will finally have a choice other than the SA8300.

There is nothing they can do, they must supply cable cards if you ask for them. (with very limited exexceptions for tiny little cable co's but let's leave that out of the debate for now)...
The general presumption is that they're not happy with the idea of supplying cable cards to people, but in the case of an S3, it's actually a pretty big win for cable co's. It's a device that can only be used for cable. Sure it works with OTA HD as well, but without a cable card can't map... The purchasers of an S3 are basically locking themselves into cable for years. If I'm a cable co I'll gladly trade my loss of revenue from the STB rental (which probably has a pretty long ROI to begin with, those boxes are not cheap) for knowledge that I'm BIG TIME reducing churn. S3 folks are likely high end subscribers too, movie stations, extra tiers, etc to get all that HD goodness.

optivity

09-18-06, 05:43 PM

There is nothing they can do, they must supply cable cards if you ask for them... (with very limited exexceptions for tiny little cable co's but let's leave that out of the debate for now)...
The general presumption is that they're not happy with the idea of supplying cable cards to people, but in the case of an S3, it's actually a pretty big win for cable co's. It's a device that can only be used for cable. Sure it works with OTA HD as well, but without a cable card can't map... The purchasers of an S3 are basically locking themselves into cable for years. If I'm a cable co I'll gladly trade my loss of revenue from the STB rental (which probably has a pretty long ROI to begin with, those boxes are not cheap) for knowledge that I'm BIG TIME reducing churn. S3 folks are likely high end subscribers too, movie stations, extra tiers, etc to get all that HD goodness.While many of us are “locked in” to our CATV providers for the time being... Verizon FiOS has been installed on my street so I know FiOS TV will be available soon . ;)

dravenstone

09-18-06, 05:50 PM

Right on, I forgot about FIOS (cause it's not at all on our horizon here in PHX)... I tend to think of offerings like that, as well as what qwest offers out here as cable on another pipe. It's wrong of me to do that I'm sure, but I differentiate based on wire to the house, or beam from the sky. Really there are three/four markets now... I wonder how that fact impacts CC.

I think the point still stands though that there is clearly a positive spin to put on cable card deployment, at least as far as the S3 goes. Provided everything is working from a cable card standpoint, you should be looking at a satisfied customer.
I guess the big point a lot of people make about CC 1.0 is the loss of PPV revenue for folks that are deploying it. I would suspect heavy DVR usage is a big blow to PPV, so from that angle it might be a double whammy that makes them less than excited about it...

keenan

09-18-06, 07:45 PM

Sure it works with OTA HD as well, but without a cable card can't map... .
What do you mean by it can't map OTA? Without a CC the S3 works fine with OTA stations, both digital and analog.

Nmlobo

09-18-06, 08:01 PM

While many of us are “locked in” to our CATV providers for the time being... Verizon FiOS has been installed on my street so I know FiOS TV will be available soon . ;)

Good luck. It has been installed on my street for over a year but still not avail. for service.

bierboy

09-18-06, 08:07 PM

...in the case of an S3, it's actually a pretty big win for cable co's. It's a device that can only be used for cable. Sure it works with OTA HD as well, but without a cable card can't map... The purchasers of an S3 are basically locking themselves into cable for years. ...That is such wrong information, it's pathetic. I'm using the S3 with analog cable and OTA HD stations WITHOUT CABLE CARDS, and it's mapping the HDs just fine. And I doubt I will EVER cough up the $$ for digital cable or ever use cable cards. Please check your facts before posting such grossly misleading and flat-out wrong information.

dbburns

09-18-06, 08:35 PM

Thank you for confirming that. I just ordered a S3 for strictly OTA use, and I'd hate to not have the channels mapped correctly for lack of a cable card or two.

dravenstone

09-18-06, 08:44 PM

What do you mean by it can't map OTA? Without a CC the S3 works fine with OTA stations, both digital and analog.

Correct, my bad...I was thinking of the issue with unencrypted cable (QAM) channels that can't be mapped without cable card.

dravenstone

09-18-06, 08:46 PM

That is such wrong information, it's pathetic.

Please check your facts before posting such grossly misleading and flat-out wrong information.

Don't sugar coat it man, tell me how you really feel would ya.

bierboy

09-18-06, 09:40 PM

Don't sugar coat it man, tell me how you really feel would ya.I'll try to do better next time.

vman41

09-19-06, 06:49 AM

The ONLY reason CableCards are a reality is because the FCC FORCED CABLE COMPANIES TO USE THEM.

I think the history is more complicated than that. The FCC was just interested in ensuring that a subscriber would always be able to hook up their TV without a separate box from the cable company. Cablecard was a solution the cable industry proposed, the FCC would have been just as happy with an open encryption/authorization standard for digital cable that TV manufacturers could have built directly into their sets.

optivity

09-19-06, 07:04 AM

I think the history is more complicated than that. The FCC was just interested in ensuring that a subscriber would always be able to hook up their TV without a separate box from the cable company. Cablecard was a solution the cable industry proposed, the FCC would have been just as happy with an open encryption/authorization standard for digital cable that TV manufacturers could have built directly into their sets.Most likely CableCARDs are an interim step before content providers implement some form of DCAS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downloadable_Conditional_Access_System) to control DRM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Rights_Management).

magnani

09-19-06, 07:37 AM

Most likely CableCARDs are an interim step before content providers implement some form of DCAS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downloadable_Conditional_Access_System) to control DRM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Rights_Management).

You've hit it right on the nail!

rb47

09-19-06, 01:58 PM

spiff72

09-19-06, 02:07 PM

The FAQ states that all outputs work simultaneously. Can someone verify that both the HDMI and component outputs on the series3 work at the same time?

Every HD DVR that I have seen, including the D*Tivo, disables one output while the other is in use. Thanks in advance.

I have mine hooked up with component and HDMI. They both work at the same time (although I haven't tried picture in picture mode).

The Sony HDD250/500's disable component video when HDMI is plugged into the back of the unit (it doesn't have to be connected to another device).

lynesjc

09-19-06, 03:46 PM

I just want to know if it deinterlaces it to 1080p and then scales it to 720p or if it deinterlaces 1080i to 540p and then up to 720p like lots of cheaper units.

I would hope that proper conversion of 1080i to 720p is one of the few substantive things that THX certification gets you.

09-19-06, 04:21 PM

Right now I have an HD lcd monitor running off a Motorola/Comcast 3412 using DVI. On the DVI input the monitor does not overscan, and the result is that for standard definition signals that put data on the "non-visible" lines, those twinkling data lines do appear. This is not a problem with HD, and is not a problem on component which does overscan, but is being used with a different source.

I was wondering if the Series 3 had a way to supress the data lines or slightly scale the picture to clip them. The 3412 doesn't.

dmbatch

09-19-06, 04:25 PM

chipvideo

09-19-06, 06:44 PM

I would hope that proper conversion of 1080i to 720p is one of the few substantive things that THX certification gets you.

I would think so.

Just got my tivo 1 hour ago. almost done loading info.

optivity

09-20-06, 06:53 AM

dravenstone

09-20-06, 09:43 AM

I would hope that proper conversion of 1080i to 720p is one of the few substantive things that THX certification gets you.

I would think so.

Just got my tivo 1 hour ago. almost done loading info.

THX is audio, it would have nothing to do with conversion of video resolution.
In a nutshell the THX stamp of approval means that the player will output the audio as the director intended it to sound.

cheneyp

09-20-06, 09:54 AM

THX is audio, it would have nothing to do with conversion of video resolution.
In a nutshell the THX stamp of approval means that the player will output the audio as the director intended it to sound.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, this product is THX audio and video certified.

Here's excerpts from an article at twice.com

“Developing certification for HD displays represents a natural evolution for THX, and serves as an extension of our work in home theater and DVD mastering,” said Richard Dean, THX technology VP.

For DMRs, the certification criteria are designed to ensure that “visual quality won't be compromised when recording HD and SD content,” THX said. Certified DMRs will “maintain the sharpness and detail found in the original cable or off-air signal.”

The company also announced that the TiVo Series3 HD Digital Media Recorder is the first digital media recorder (DMR) or digital video recorder (DVR) to meet its newly developed DMR-performance standards.

keenan

09-20-06, 09:58 AM

THX is audio, it would have nothing to do with conversion of video resolution.
In a nutshell the THX stamp of approval means that the player will output the audio as the director intended it to sound.
Wrong.

Since broadcast and cable TV has yet to use any advanced audio format other than Dolby Digital, THX has very little to do with the audio on the S3. The below from the THX site.

TiVo Series3 HD DMR Achieves THX Certification
Introducing the TiVo® Series3 HD™ Digital Media Recorder, the world’s first THX Certified DVR. This latest THX performance benchmark and certification program addresses a must-have product for all HDTV buyers. With THX certification, visual quality won’t be compromised when recording HD and SD content. Whether you are recording live sports, news, reality shows or your favorite movies, the THX Certified TiVo will maintain the sharpness and detail found in the original cable or off-air signal.

THX Certified Video and Sound
THX and TiVo worked closely to design an HD digital media recorder that delivers quality that is true to the original broadcast. The THX team developed an in-depth video and audio specification for HD DVR record and playback performance. After the first TiVo box prototype was created, THX engineers analyzed it for frequency response, signal to noise ratios, color levels and deinterlacing (to name just a few tests), as well as other THX performance parameters.

THX also performed a series of evaluations, similar to the tests performed during the mastering of films for THX Certified DVDs. The TiVo box was subjected to side-by-side analysis of recorded content versus original “over-the-air” material. Together, all of this testing ensures TiVo users will experience the accurate recording and playback of content with the correct color, contrast, and black/white levels without softening the picture.

http://www.thx.com/tivo/index.html
TiVo

keenan

09-20-06, 10:08 AM

Has anyone bought a TiVo Series 3 to replace a SA8300HD-DVR from their CATV provider? How does the quality of recorded content compare between these two units? Is there a noticeable difference in picture that can be attributed to the respective tuners/MPEG decoders? Are the input signals w/CableCARD selectable (e.g. 480p & 1080i)? My 50PX50U will support only native incoming signals 480i/720p/1080i w/CableCARD installed and IMO... 480i up converted to 480p & 720p up converted to 1080i seem to look best on this TV.
From the TiVo site. The S3 has true native output capability, and with having about 4 days so far with the unit, I'd say it works spectacular. I'm very pleased with it. The image itself is what you would probably see with a direct feed to your display, given that your display has a decent QAM tuner/deinterlacer/scaler. I'm feeding the S3 into a DVDO VP30 and then on to a Mits 73" CRT RPTV and it looks great. The PQ is much better than the Moto 6412 I've been using until now.

* Native: The DVR sends all video in its original broadcast format, with no conversion. Native mode is recommended if your TV supports all four formats. It is also a good format to choose if you consider yourself an HD novice.

* Hybrid: Choose 1080i Hybrid or 720p Hybrid. The DVR converts HD broadcasts to 1080i or 720p and converts standard broadcast signals to 480p. Your TV must support both the HD format you choose and 480p.

* Fixed: The DVR converts signals broadcast in other formats to the fixed format you choose, and video is always displayed in this format. Select the fixed format that matches your TV’s scanning mode and highest resolution (1080i, 720p, 480i, or 480p).

http://customersupport.tivo.com/knowbase/root/public/tv074008.htm?
Setting the Video Output Format on a Series3 HD DVR

Ken Ross

09-20-06, 03:53 PM

optivity

09-20-06, 06:36 PM

From the TiVo site. The S3 has true native output capability, and with having about 4 days so far with the unit, I'd say it works spectacular. I'm very pleased with it. The image itself is what you would probably see with a direct feed to your display, given that your display has a decent QAM tuner/deinterlacer/scaler. I'm feeding the S3 into a DVDO VP30 and then on to a Mits 73" CRT RPTV and it looks great. The PQ is much better than the Moto 6412 I've been using until now.

http://customersupport.tivo.com/knowbase/root/public/tv074008.htm?
Setting the Video Output Format on a Series3 HD DVRThanks for the link; it appears the "hybrid" setting might work best for me. The general consensus over in the Plasma & LCD FP Display Forum is the Panasonic 50/500U series PDPs don't render 480i or 720p particularly well but do a pretty good job with 480p and 1080i.I too would love to hear about picture quality since that was a weakness IMO with the D* Tivos relative to other D* non-Tivo HD receivers. Many people agreed and I'd like to see if they've improved the picture quality. I've got FIOS and there's no way I want to take a hit on picture quality now that I've finally got it back after switching from D*.I'm jealous... I've had FiOS cable on my street since April... but no FiOS TV in my area for another couple of years... :mad: I need Verizon FiOS to replace Time Warner & a TiVo Series 3 to replace my SA8300. :) If you buy an HD TiVo it will be interesting to read about your observations. Good luck.

keenan

09-20-06, 08:14 PM

I too would love to hear about picture quality since that was a weakness IMO with the D* Tivos relative to other D* non-Tivo HD receivers. Many people agreed and I'd like to see if they've improved the picture quality. I've got FIOS and there's no way I want to take a hit on picture quality now that I've finally got it back after switching from D*.
I haven't spent much time with analog or SD channels, but the HD looks as good as any I've ever had here, which would be the direct cable feed to my Mits QAM tuner. The S3 is transparent, whereas my Moto 6412 cable STB clearly has PQ issues, especially noticeable when compared to the PQ I'm getting now from the S3. A lot of the "pop" is back, the stuff that excited me about the format in the first place.

Also of note, the ATSC tuners are the best I've used which includes an old RCA direct view, an LG4200, various Dish and DirecTV tuners, and the Mits tuners in my previous display and teh current one.

HD_Dude

09-20-06, 08:24 PM

Ummmmmm....

Has anyone else had the Tivo S3 for 7 days...and JUST noticed that there's a clear plastic sheet over the black front panel?

Glad no one was around to see me peeling it off...kind of embarrassing.

dssturbo1

09-20-06, 10:33 PM

some ordered it seven days ago and still dont have it.

Stephenrjr

09-20-06, 11:57 PM

Can a proud owner of a Tivo S3 connected to Verizon FiOS TV please post some comments on how well they get along?

I'm a FiOS TV customer going through DirecTiVo separation anxiety....

-Stephen

fastep

09-21-06, 09:11 AM

Well, having been in broadcasting for 25 years, and having watched HD through the Sony SAT-HD100 and HD300, the DirecTV HR10-250, the Motorola 6412, and the Sony DHG-HDD250, I have to say....

The picture on the Tivo S3 is by far and away, the finest HD picture I have ever seen.

By comparison with the above models, it is absolutely breathtaking. The clarity of HD is even more clear, the colors more natural, yet vibrant, black levels blacker, highlights more sparkling....it's magnificent.

Could the THX certification play a role in this?

I am not a technician, but I do have a trained 'eye.' And the S3 just blows me away.

If THX is the reason, thanks THX.

Regardless, Bravo, Tivo!

Like you I have owned most dvrs ever made. I currently use the moto6412 and the sony hdd500 with comcast after using the hr10 for 2 years. I am considering the tivo3 but have a few questions.

I find the moto has decent pq and the sony even better. Is the tivo3 pq even better than the sony dhg?

Does the tivo3 allow for sd shows to be automatically 'side-stretched' or 'adjust 8' in 1080i like the sony or does the tivo3 stretch 1080i sd shows like the hr10?

Does the tivo3 allow viewing a program while accessing guides/playing lists, etc.?

Is the tivo3 as fast as the moto at setting up recordings?

Thank you.

tmackie

09-21-06, 09:32 AM

I replaced my SARA 8300HD with a Series 3 yesterday and the picture quality difference is noticable. (Much more so on the NON HD channels). I was using Monster THX certified component with the 8300HD (no active HDMI) and I am using HDMI (supplied cable with the TiVo)

I am using Native mode to my Mits DLP and am very happy so far!! I think anyone saying that the HD is "worlds better" would be stretching it, but I have no doubt that the TiVo box handles the signal far better than the SA 8300. So far, I am very impressed with the picture quality!

HD_Dude

09-21-06, 10:14 AM

I find the moto has decent pq and the sony even better. Is the tivo3 pq even better than the sony dhg?

Yes, I see a big difference. The Tivo is much cleaner, much more defined, IMO.

Does the tivo3 allow for sd shows to be automatically 'side-stretched' or 'adjust 8' in 1080i like the sony or does the tivo3 stretch 1080i sd shows like the hr10?

I don't know the answer to this one, because I leave the Tivo in 'native' mode, and don't do any stretching. I watch HD in 16X9, and the kids watch their cartoons in 4X3 with black bars left and right.

Does the tivo3 allow viewing a program while accessing guides/playing lists, etc.?

Yes and no. While accessing the guide, yes...it's a grid overlay; you see your program behind it. But for anything else, playing lists, season passes etc., the Tivo goes full screen and cuts the program audio too.

Is the tivo3 as fast as the moto at setting up recordings?
Thank you.

Yes, but the Tivo has more options and asks you about them...season pass, for instance...and that takes a few seconds.

BTW, the Tivo S3 is much, much faster at setting up Season Passes than the DirecTV HR10-250...once you hit the "Set up a season pass with these options" it takes only about 5-10 seconds to process. The HR10-250 took up to 30 sec.

dbburns

09-21-06, 12:28 PM

Anyone who upgraded from a Samsung SIR-T165 or an LG LST-3410A care to share how the PQ compares to either of those HD receivers?Please allow me to answer my own question in case anyone else currently uses either of these HD receivers and is interested in the answer.

I've always thought the PQ on the 3410A was slightly better than the T165. That would make sense since it is a year or two newer technology. The Tivo 3 is a few years newer than the 3410A, so I expected it to be better. I set up my Tivo 3 yesterday (my first Tivo ever) and the picture was considerably better than the 3410A. The PQ improvement is much more noticeable over the 3410A than the 3410A improvement was over the T165. I retired the T165 with a sad heart as it was my first HD receiver, but I won't be looking back. I'll keep the 3410A around in case I need to tape three shows in HD at one time.

I was very pleasantly surprised by the jump in PQ. I've only watched HD stuff so far, and that's pretty much all I watch, so I can't compare SD quality improvement. The Fox shows last night looked as good as what I am used to CSI looking like. I can't wait to see how good CSI looks tonight on the Tivo receiver.

Also, the OTA tuner is considerably better than either the 3410A and the T165. They used to struggle to get and hold PBS, but the Tivo seems to do so with minimal pixelization. The old receivers haven't picked up WB (now CW) in years, but the Tivo picked that up easily as well, albeit with a weak signal.

I am quite impressed so far.

dbburns

09-21-06, 12:35 PM

Oh, I also have a question. As I said, this is my first Tivo, so no making fun of the new guy.

How the hell do I turn this thing off? I couldn't for the life of me figure that out last night. I glanced through the manual for any suggestions as to how to power it down, but I couldn't find the answer. I'm sure it is obvious, just not to me. I looked in the index in the manual for "power" (it only lists power loss) and "off", but no luck.

I had to leave the thing on all night and now during the day today, which I don't like to do with my electronics. Wastes electricity, and I'd imagine causes wear and tear on the unit itself, since it is always recording live TV.

Thanks in advance.

Dave

scsiraid

09-21-06, 12:43 PM

HD_Dude

09-21-06, 12:58 PM