I saw him grab the rail with his hand just before he went invisible. I don't think he went off the bridge at all.



Yeah...when HRG looked over the edge, you saw no splash or any type of evidence to suggest he went off the bridge...I suspect we'll see his back-story and we'll see he survived by hanging off the bridge (speculation)

So I went back into my DVR...and was looking at the scenes for next weeks show, and paused it on the Linderman shot. I think it is going to be Malcolm McDowell. How fitting that would be as he starred beside George Takei in Star Trek Generations.

just an observation...

Claire first trusting and confiding in Mr. Bennet with all her heart. Then, when this all goes down last night, she now doesn't know if she can trust him. Claire doubts him
now. I kinda feel for her now...like who to turn to!

Very powerful theme here!

just thoughts nc

STOP WATCHING THE PREVIEWS

they ruin the show!

Certainly he was in pain right then. But he was still able to use his power to disappear and then when we meet him post-flashback, he has fully recovered. From at least 3 point-blank chest shots. Uh huh. :rolleyes: I'm willing to suspend disbelief as required for this show, but not when they commit such blatant inconsistencies. That said, there may be a "plausible" explanation within the 'Heroes' universe; i.e. he somehow absorbed Claire's power (like Peter can), or some such.
Again, years had passed between that flashback and the current time in the show. How long do you think it takes to recover from gunshot wounds?

And since we don't know what happened, there's just as much possibility he got to a hospital as there is he healed himself (moreso IMO). Why do you feel the need to give him additional powers when it's not necessary for an explanation?

And since we don't know what happened, there's just as much possibility he got to a hospital as there is he healed himself (moreso IMO). Why do you feel the need to give him additional powers when it's not necessary for an explanation?

I'd say it's pretty necessary for an explanation. Three shots to the chest in the middle of nowhere with no one to help, and he's invisible at that. Not much reasonable chance for immediate medical attention IMO.

Again, years had passed between that flashback and the current time in the show. How long do you think it takes to recover from gunshot wounds?

Again....3 chest shots! That's some pretty impressive powers of recuperation, don't you think?

And since we don't know what happened, there's just as much possibility he got to a hospital as there is he healed himself (moreso IMO). Why do you feel the need to give him additional powers when it's not necessary for an explanation?

Getting to a hospital on foot (presumably they were in a relatively desolate area) after getting shot that badly would be a pretty neat trick. Plus, he'd be dripping blood the whole way (would it stay invisible?). Plus, the "company" would likely have been staking out any nearby hospitals, etc., etc. Sorry, not plausible. There must be another shoe to drop here. Or, it's extremely lazy writing.

Perhaps Claude has more than one power?

Perhaps Claude has more than one power?

That's what I'm saying. That's the "other shoe" that needs to drop.

Perhaps Claude has more than one power?
Or a bullet proof vest...

Yeah...when HRG looked over the edge, you saw no splash or any type of evidence to suggest he went off the bridge...I suspect we'll see his back-story and we'll see he survived by hanging off the bridge (speculation)

I suspect that'll be the ultimate answer also, but again how feasible is it that he takes three gunshots to the chest, falls over the edge of a bridge, hangs on with one hand (or even two), manages to pull himself back up and over the edge of the bridge, AND get to help (the bridge seemed out in BFE) before bleeding out? Unless as archiguy said, he has other as yet unmentioned powers.

STOP WATCHING THE PREVIEWS

they ruin the show!

That's a matter of opinion.

Previews are not spoilers! They are how the writers want to delevlope the show. I look forward to them and feel they are part of the experience.

So I went back into my DVR...and was looking at the scenes for next weeks show, and paused it on the Linderman shot. I think it is going to be Malcolm McDowell. How fitting that would be as he starred beside George Takei in Star Trek Generations.

Actually, Sulu wasn't in Generations at all. They had his daughter in a couple early scenes, but that was it.

Or a bullet proof vest...Very possible, since he know in advance about the orders HRG was given.

Anyone else think Malcolm McDowell is the actor who will play Linderman? Or do you think its Donald Sutherland.

Or if you want a really evil Linderman, perhaps its Simon Cowell! He could stop any hero with just his words ;)

(I love Simon Cowell, btw).

Previews are not spoilers! They are how the writers want to delevlope the show. I look forward to them and feel they are part of the experience.

True, and it's been long established that the end-of-show previews do not constitute spoilers. However, I've stopped watching them on '24' because they simply give too much away. My decision, and my risk if I choose to view or participate in the thread without seeing them.

Very possible, since he know in advance about the orders HRG was given.

No vest. Each gunshot was followed by a splash of red I believe.

Anyone else think Malcolm McDowell is the actor who will play Linderman? Or do you think its Donald Sutherland.

Or if you want a really evil Linderman, perhaps its Simon Cowell! He could stop any hero with just his words ;)

(I love Simon Cowell, btw).

I don't think it'll be Donald Sutherland, but that was the first thing that popped into my h ead when they showed part of the head/face with all the grey. I suppose it could be Malcolm McDowell.

No vest. Each gunshot was followed by a splash of red I believe.

I only saw one patch and that was near his armpit, which could have gotten by the vest, but I didnt state intently, and just wanted to watch the show...

So I went back into my DVR...and was looking at the scenes for next weeks show, and paused it on the Linderman shot. I think it is going to be Malcolm McDowell. Did you cheat ?? :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_McDowell :

Most recently, NBC announced that McDowell will be playing Mr. Linderman on Heroes

Again....3 chest shots! That's some pretty impressive powers of recuperation, don't you think?



Getting to a hospital on foot (presumably they were in a relatively desolate area) after getting shot that badly would be a pretty neat trick. Plus, he'd be dripping blood the whole way (would it stay invisible?). Plus, the "company" would likely have been staking out any nearby hospitals, etc., etc. Sorry, not plausible. There must be another shoe to drop here. Or, it's extremely lazy writing.

Wasn't one in the shoulder? The first shot didn't hit him in the chest. I'll have to watch the episode again, as I don't remember where the third one hit either. And why would the company be staking out hospitals? They thought he was dead. I think it's very plausible and the likely explanation that he was picked up after HRG was gone (and possibly the person he was protecting in the first place was the one who picked him up).

And if this bothers you so much, why aren't you up in arms over HRG? If he was shot in the middle of nowhere even in a place that wouldn't kill him instantly, shouldn't he bleed out on the bridge? How does *HE* survive?

No vest. Each gunshot was followed by a splash of red I believe.

Here's a thought, although unlikely. What if invisible man engineered the whole shooting of himself--he could easily have swapped out blanks in the gun without HRG knowing about it. He could have engineered the whole thing with make-up, special effects, etc. So the whole thing went down exactly as he planned, which makes the issue of him not just going invisible and fleeing a little more plausible. Therefore, he gets to disappear without anyone knowing that he is still really alive.

Folks, come on now. They've given us so many answers. They didn't show EVERYTHING in the flashbacks last night. I'm positive that the writers will revisit Claude and the shooting. The writing has been so great to this point, why are there people cutting it now for this?????? Something happened with Claude and they have chosen not to tell us yet, it's not bad writing, but timing. Just wait a while and I'm sure it will be answered like many other things have.

Did you cheat ?? :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_McDowell :

Most recently, NBC announced that McDowell will be playing Mr. Linderman on Heroes

Whoa...Cool.

Here's a thought, although unlikely. What if invisible man engineered the whole shooting of himself--he could easily have swapped out blanks in the gun without HRG knowing about it. He could have engineered the whole thing with make-up, special effects, etc. So the whole thing went down exactly as he planned, which makes the issue of him not just going invisible and fleeing a little more plausible. Therefore, he gets to disappear without anyone knowing that he is still really alive.

That's a good theory. I suppose it's also possible that both Bennet and Claude could have cooked up the whole thing. And maybe there really was another "invisible" (or something - work with me here...) person tagging along to make sure HRG did as he was ordered. That "mystery person" may have been responsible for the initial shot. HRG wasn't ready for it and had the gun aimed slightly left of center, thus the first shot hitting Claude in the shoulder. Maybe then HRG aimed the rest of the shots at his chest, thus ensuring they'd hit the vest. That could have explained his survival.

But, as Tony suggested, they'll probably revisit this scene to fill in the blanks for us at a later date.

http://heroes.wordpress.com/

Great episode,
my recorder quit right when the haitian plugged HRG on the bridge, can someone fill me in on what happened after that?

He also instructed the Haitian to 'go deep' and get rid of any memory that might help the baddies find Claire. So we'll see how much of his 'good' personality survives his loss of memory.

well he did plug his friend three times, so it wasn't all good! :)

Yeah that was harsh. Hard to believe Claude survived that.

Amazing episode. Seeing little Hiro was cool.

Since Ted is captured, how will Peter meet him and absorb his powers?

I'm guessing he escapes again. If I were them I'd relocate from that paper factory, too many people know where it is now, especially Sylar.

Did you cheat ?? :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_McDowell :

Most recently, NBC announced that McDowell will be playing Mr. Linderman on Heroes

Now THAT wasn't cool!

If it's true, that would most definitely be a spoiler!

Peter has already met him and absorbed his power a while ago.
-Evangelo2

When? We're talking Ted the Nuke Man...not Sylar

I completely disagree. This was an aweful episode...very disappointing!

If a mother witnessed her teenage daughter getting shot, the mother would go nuts! Wouldn't she? Claires mother has no idea that she can regenerate herelf, so why wasn't the mohter more, MUCH more upset!

Totally pretentious.

nc

If you couldn't enjoy that ep then I don't know what there is for you to enjoy about this show at all. Best episode of the series so far.

stop spoiling the previews please....I work hard at not watching them all week...they totally ruin this (and other) great shows...please use the spoiler tags

Awesome episode...

My only gripe is, where did Eric Roberts come from at the end of the episode? How was he alerted to the house so quickly?

Loved the back-story...it was great seeing little Hiro

HRG called Roberts in as part of his plan to blame the Haitian and cover Claire's escape. This lets him protect his family and Claire.

Awesome episode, stunning. My mouth nearly hit the floor when Claire walked out of her house, all fried up. That was so freaking cool. Tonight is proof why this is the best show on TV.

That was truly nasty, and awesome how she regenerated.

Great episode! I remember the first episode I ever saw. Sylar was stalking a little girl the police were protecting in the basement of the police station. Who was that little girl and what happened to her? I must have missed that episode.

They never showed what happened with her, hopefully she's in protective custody and beyond his reach (unless he gets the Wireless girl's power, then he may be able to find her in the FBI's computers.

Or a bullet proof vest...

Well since he was present when they ordered HRG to kill him, it's likely he took precautions to prevent it. Bulletproof vest (as has been stated) would help with that, along with some movie-style bloodpacks. At least one shot may have hit him where he wasn't covered (didn't see the exact spots he got hit)

Best episode of Heroes ever. The producers actully give us answers, unlike Lost. I don't know how long they can keep the show going when they give us so much, but to me, it seems like they've got a lot of ground they can still cover. There are lots of mysteries, and they are all starting to tie in together which makes them even more interesting.

Claire regenerating last night after being nuked outdoes the regen as a cadaver.

Why wouldn't Claude just have hopped back in the car after turning invisible to get to back to civilization/hospital?

Best episode of Heroes ever. The producers actully give us answers, unlike Lost. I don't know how long they can keep the show going when they give us so much, but to me, it seems like they've got a lot of ground they can still cover. There are lots of mysteries, and they are all starting to tie in together which makes them even more interesting.


There will always be more Heroes to draw from, although how they top Sylar as a baddie I don't know (in terms of power...he's been a bit boring since we've seen his face)


Claire regenerating last night after being nuked outdoes the regen as a cadaver.

BIG TIME!

Perhaps Claude has more than one power?I believe that to be a real possibility since controlling multiple powers is the lesson he was trying to teach Peter.

YMMV

That was a great episode. NBC has got it made on Mondays now... Heroes and then the Black Donnelys. Wow...

Great episode last night. One of the best all year.

Also, some points to make out...

Anyone notice that (i think) the gun the Hatian used to shoot HRG was the same gun that HRG used to shoot Claude. Karma is a pain ;)

Could the Hatian be talking about God in a sense when he said he was answering to someone higher in Claire's life. Mrs. Bennet seems to be devoutly religious, which I'm sure the Hatian would know. it's a stretch, I know, but it would seem that the Hatian had a 'feeling' that it's best that Claire remember all that she has endured...

Also, I think Ted becomes another 'villian' in the lines of Sylar and possibly Jessica/Nikki. Like was explained in last nights episode, he just wants revenge. He can't seem to 'forgive' himself that he actually was the cause of his wife's death...no one 'made' him that way. Thus, he needs to point the blame at someone else. Anyone with that pent up rage and emotion is dangerous. And I'm sure locking his butt up again isn't going to lessen those feelings ;)

That was a great episode. NBC has got it made on Mondays now... Heroes and then the Black Donnelys. Wow...

Great episode last night. One of the best all year.

Also, some points to make out...

Anyone notice that (i think) the gun the Hatian used to shoot HRG was the same gun that HRG used to shoot Claude. Karma is a pain ;)

Could the Hatian be talking about God in a sense when he said he was answering to someone higher in Claire's life. Mrs. Bennet seems to be devoutly religious, which I'm sure the Hatian would know. it's a stretch, I know, but it would seem that the Hatian had a 'feeling' that it's best that Claire remember all that she has endured...

Also, I think Ted becomes another 'villian' in the lines of Sylar and possibly Jessica/Nikki. Like was explained in last nights episode, he just wants revenge. He can't seem to 'forgive' himself that he actually was the cause of his wife's death...no one 'made' him that way. Thus, he needs to point the blame at someone else. Anyone with that pent up rage and emotion is dangerous. And I'm sure locking his butt up again isn't going to lessen those feelings ;)

Save the Cheerleader, save the world...Seems like a high enough calling to me.

Previews are not spoilers! They are how the writers want to delevlope the show. I look forward to them and feel they are part of the experience.

I'll disagree. It has nothing to do with the writers. It's the marketing people behind them, and their concern is getting people to watch, not developing the show or the experience.

Could the Hatian be talking about God in a sense when he said he was answering to someone higher in Claire's life. Mrs. Bennet seems to be devoutly religious, which I'm sure the Hatian would know. it's a stretch, I know, but it would seem that the Hatian had a 'feeling' that it's best that Claire remember all that she has endured...



Again, I think Linderman is Nathan Petrellis father....which would make Linderman Claire's grandfather. The Haitian is answering to Linderman to protect Claire.

Why wouldn't Claude just have hopped back in the car after turning invisible to get to back to civilization/hospital?
If he does that, the company knows he's alive and looks for him. Since he didn't, everyone assumed he was dead and he lived for years before HRG found him again (and then only by accident).

He also instructed the Haitian to 'go deep' I thought he told the Haitian to "take her deep" ??

If he does that, the company knows he's alive and looks for him. Did you forget that he's invisible ??

I thought he told the Haitian to "take her deep" ??

No, he was telling him to 'go deep' into his mind and root out any memory that could incriminate him or help them find Claire. It's the same phrase he used when they kidnapped the policeman.

Did you forget that he's invisible ??

If he was truly shot, he would have difficulty controlling his breathing and/or moaning in pain. He'd be heard, it's a sedan, not a pickup truck.

Next Weeks Previews:

That can't be Simone, it must be another powered person or someone is messing with their heads. That would be really stupid if she has powers too.

Maybe Mr. Muggles is Linderman!

It has been on the news for a long time that Malcolm McDowell was cast to play the role of Linderman.

I think Claude had something setup for his shooting. He said he was in the office when they told HRG to kill Claude. So why would he get in the car and let himself be shot just on the hopes that HRG wouldn't do it. You knew it was coming, thus he planned for it. A vest, with explosive packs if it did show blood, or he had his friend waiting to bring him back, heal him etc. He wouldn't drive all the way out there on just a hope that HRG would not do it.

Again, I think Linderman is Nathan Petrellis father....which would make Linderman Claire's grandfather. The Haitian is answering to Linderman to protect Claire.

I think that's too obvious so I'm going out on a limb and saying Future Super Hiro.

The Haitian is following the same advice given by Hiro and possibly the rest of the Heroes from the future. Hiro and the others are the higher powers.

What a great show last night! Riveting!

Seems to me last night's episode has rendered Mohindar's and his father's research moot. If there is no biological or geneological root to the special abilities these "heroes" have, then what further role would Mohindar have? That is, other than bringing Silar to more of them.

the special effects of the crispy critter Claire were awesome.

Thank you.

Could the Hatian be talking about God in a sense when he said he was answering to someone higher in Claire's life. Mrs. Bennet seems to be devoutly religious, which I'm sure the Hatian would know. it's a stretch, I know, but it would seem that the Hatian had a 'feeling' that it's best that Claire remember all that she has endured...



I thought it was pretty clear that the higher power that the Haitian answered to was Claire herself. I wish I could remember the exact dialogue, but that was the thought I had after the conversation between HRG and Haitian.

If you couldn't enjoy that ep then I don't know what there is for you to enjoy about this show at all. Best episode of the series so far.
Not true, Iteki. I think Heroes is one of the best shows around...BY FAR!

I just didn't care for the show last night :)

nc

...
Seems to me last night's episode has rendered Mohindar's and his father's research moot. If there is no biological or geneological root to the special abilities these "heroes" have, then what further role would Mohindar have? That is, other than bringing Silar to more of them.

At what point did we learn that "there is no biological or geneological root to the special abilities"?

Great episode last night. The effects were nicely done, especially the nuked Claire.

The one thing that bugged me tought, wouldn't everyone that was in the vacinity of Ted going uncontrollably nuclear have severe radiation poisoning?

Great episode last night. The effects were nicely done, especially the nuked Claire.

The one thing that bugged me tought, wouldn't everyone that was in the vacinity of Ted going uncontrollably nuclear have severe radiation poisoning?

Nope...that's Heroes radiation. It wears off when you get away from the source. ;)

At what point did we learn that "there is no biological or geneological root to the special abilities"?

I'm with Don S...

Wasn't it said in the episode by HRG "We didn't make you, you were made like that. It's who you are." or something along those lines?

Nope...that's Heroes radiation. It wears off when you get away from the source. ;)

maybe Ted uses cold fusion using his body water to create the effect!

At what point did we learn that "there is no biological or geneological root to the special abilities"?

We didn't. If there is no genetic role, how could all of those people be located by the professor? Sulu didn't know if Baby Claire would have abilities or not when he handed her to HRG. We have already seen parent/child and sibling pairs tend to be empowered.

Do you think Hiro was adopted? If not, I wonder if his father has powers.

Great episode...effects, plot-revealing, action, etc.

However, are we to infer that not only does Claire "heal" but she doesn't feel pain as well? The kind of damage she was absorbing would have made a normal person pass out from the sheer pain of it. I know this isn't the first time we've seen her take "damage" without much outward appearance of "pain" but I don't remember anyone discussing it.

It's also interesting that she came out of it with her clothes (and hair) mostly intact. I guess a (mostly) naked (and bald) Claire would've been too much for the network to approve. :D

Again, I think Linderman is Nathan Petrellis father....which would make Linderman Claire's grandfather. The Haitian is answering to Linderman to protect Claire.
Interesting theory.

Sooooo, Linderman wanted to protect his indestructible granddaughter, but didn't give a crap about killing his own son and heir to the throne, Nathan? Is that what you're suggesting?

____________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

I think that's too obvious so I'm going out on a limb and saying Future Super Hiro.

The Haitian is following the same advice given by Hiro and possibly the rest of the Heroes from the future. Hiro and the others are the higher powers.

I like this one...

Great episode...effects, plot-revealing, action, etc.

However, are we to infer that not only does Claire "heal" but she doesn't feel pain as well? The kind of damage she was absorbing would have made a normal person pass out from the sheer pain of it. I know this isn't the first time we've seen her take "damage" without much outward appearance of "pain" but I don't remember anyone discussing it.

It's also interesting that she came out of it with her clothes (and hair) mostly intact. I guess a (mostly) naked (and bald) Claire would've been too much for the network to approve. :D

I felt bad for the fanboys when she walked out practically clothed. I knew they would be disappointed. :D

I'm with Don S...

Wasn't it said in the episode by HRG "We didn't make you, you were made like that. It's who you are." or something along those lines?

All he meant was that he wasn't responsible for making them the way they are...they were born that way. There are still genealogical and biological reasons for them being the way they are, but it's nature at work, and not manipulation by man. HRG and his group are studying them and eliminating people who pose 'threats', like Ted.

All he meant was that he wasn't responsible for making them the way they are...they were born that way. There are still genealogical and biological reasons for them being the way they are, but it's nature at work, and not manipulation by man. HRG and his group are studying them and eliminating people who pose 'threats', like Ted.

and in the interview discussion earlier with Eric Roberts, HRG says something like "if the public knew how others were evolving around them, they would freak out" or words to that effect.

Great episode...effects, plot-revealing, action, etc.

However, are we to infer that not only does Claire "heal" but she doesn't feel pain as well? The kind of damage she was absorbing would have made a normal person pass out from the sheer pain of it. I know this isn't the first time we've seen her take "damage" without much outward appearance of "pain" but I don't remember anyone discussing it.

It's also interesting that she came out of it with her clothes (and hair) mostly intact. I guess a (mostly) naked (and bald) Claire would've been too much for the network to approve. :D

They have already showed that Claire doesn't feel pain. All the way back to the beginning episode. Her ribs where sticking out and her friend had to point it out and she pushed them back in, without wincing or anything.

In addition, later on, her brother stabbed her with a pen or something and she didn't react right away, then realized she needed to and threw in a fake yelp like it hurt.

To the guy asking about it not being genetic and making Mohindar's role mute. I think you misunderstood. Matt and Ted "thought" it was HRG making them this way, but they soon realized or came to understand that it was biological and they were just being studied. So yes, it is still genetic.

The word is "moot," meaning arguable or debatable.

To the guy asking about it not being genetic and making Mohindar's role mute. I think you misunderstood. Matt and Ted "thought" it was HRG making them this way, but they soon realized or came to understand that it was biological and they were just being studied. So yes, it is still genetic.
Okay, so how does this all tie-in with the eclipse in the pilot episode? It seemed to be suggesting some kind of relationship (or at least analogy), unless it was entirely intended as misdirection.

_________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance fravors the prepared mind

All he meant was that he wasn't responsible for making them the way they are...they were born that way. There are still genealogical and biological reasons for them being the way they are, but it's nature at work, and not manipulation by man. HRG and his group are studying them and eliminating people who pose 'threats', like Ted.


To add on, I think what's throwing Ted and the other Heroes off and making them suspicious is that they weren't always that way. The powers just appeared one day...making them suspect that it was done to them.

HRG and his pals called it 'manifesting'...can't be puberty because many of them grow to adulthood before they manifest. It's possible there is a trigger, perhaps stress or emergency that causes their powers to come forward. Dunno.

I completely disagree. This was an aweful episode...very disappointing!

If a mother witnessed her teenage daughter getting shot, the mother would go nuts! Wouldn't she? Claires mother has no idea that she can regenerate herelf, so why wasn't the mohter more, MUCH more upset!

Totally pretentious.

nc

????? I re-watched the episode this morning. She DID go ballistic!

It's possible there is a trigger, perhaps stress or emergency that causes their powers to come forward. Dunno.
Or maybe a cosmic alignment or event...umm..... like an ECLIPSE or something?

Don't forget, if it wasn't for the sunrise over the black monolith, we'd all still be apes. :)

_____________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

They have already showed that Claire doesn't feel pain. All the way back to the beginning episode. Her ribs where sticking out and her friend had to point it out and she pushed them back in, without wincing or anything.

In addition, later on, her brother stabbed her with a pen or something and she didn't react right away, then realized she needed to and threw in a fake yelp like it hurt.

Yeah, I mentioned in my post that I knew it wasn't the first time they showed it, I just don't recall any discussion here of this being her power. It's clear that she just doesn't have the power to "heal" that she also has some limited ability to not "feel" as well.

Or maybe a cosmic alignment or event...umm..... like an ECLIPSE or something?

Don't forget, if it wasn't for the sunrise over the black monolith, we'd all still be apes. :)

_____________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

LOL except that there were many people manifesting over 15 years ago when HRG started at the 'Paper' factory. So unless an eclipse precipitated that as well....

That's what happens when you don't let fiction be fiction ! :D To be honest, I thought the same thing. As soon as HRG pulled the gun out, if I were the invisible man, I'd have disappeared.

And then you would have been hunted ruthlessly until you were found and killed. Thankfully for the invisible man, and us, he is not as dumb as you. Obviously, once he overhead that the company wanted him dead he knew that his fate was sealed and that the company would never stop until he was dead. The only way to get the company off his back was to fake his death (which is quite easy when you have the power of invisibility). He needed HRG to shoot him and believe that he was dead or the plan would not have worked. Most likely he had a bullet proof vest on with some "special effects" blood to pull off the trick. He then stumbled back and turned invisible just as he appeared to go over the side of the bridge. Most likely he just hung there and climbed to the side and got back up on the road and walked away.

I thought that the invisible man's plan was made obvious for viewers, so I'm surprised that I've seen several comments like yours. It is really annoying when the writers are criticized by saying "let fiction be fiction" when the viewer is just too dense to know what the hell is going on. This sort of behavior ruins it for the rest of us because in the future writers will dumb down their stories so much that even the dumbest viewers will get everything.

On another subject, I think the hero that the invisible man was protecting was Simone's father. Someone earlier said that the invisible man was protecting the Haitian, but that wouldn't make sense because the company knew about, and was already using the services of, the Haitian.

Thankfully for the invisible man, and us, he is not as dumb as you.

when the viewer is just too dense to know what the hell is going on. This sort of behavior ruins it for the rest of us because in the future writers will dumb down their stories so much that even the dumbest viewers will get everything.



A bit of a personal attack don't you think? We're discussing a TV show here...

I'm with Don S...

Wasn't it said in the episode by HRG "We didn't make you, you were made like that. It's who you are." or something along those lines?

Yeah, my bad. I thought the conversation between Ted and HRG just before HRG shot Ted was along the lines that HRG & Co. were in the business of creating the line of specialties in people they found who had a disposition to those traits. He did say there was nothing they could do to cure him of his explosiveness. :o :o

????? I re-watched the episode this morning. She DID go ballistic!
Watch it a 3rd time, Peter.

nc

I'm still not clear on the role of Hiro's father in all this. He had Claire in his arms and turned her over ro HRG after she was rescued from her firestarter mom.

Maybe HE'S the "higher power/authority"? It just seemed odd to throw him into the mix without explanation. What's his relationship to Linderman?

Did you forget that he's invisible ??

Did you forget that after the company found out that he wasn't dead, it took HRG and the Haitian less than a day to track him down and (almost) capture him. If it wasn't for Peter's help, the company would have snagged him.

Did you forget that after the company found out that he wasn't dead, it took HRG and the Haitian less than a day to track him down and (almost) capture him. If it wasn't for Peter's help, the company would have snagged him.


They didn't find him, they found Peter through Isaac's paintings. If Isaac hadn't tipped to the 'invisible' Peter, they never would have known.

Watch it a 3rd time, Peter.

nc
I've watched it 8 times now and I disagree. :cool:

(How would the third time change anything???)

Watch it a 3rd time, Peter.

nc

I'm not sure what else you think she should have done. Her daughter was shot, she rushed over and held her and was sobbing...and she was just returning from the hospital. As a previous poster suggested, she was still weak and probably still a little shell shocked.

I'm still not clear on the role of Hiro's father in all this. He had Claire in his arms and turned her over ro HRG after she was rescued from her firestarter mom.

Maybe HE'S the "higher power/authority"? It just seemed odd to throw him into the mix without explanation. What's his relationship to Linderman?
I thought his role was obvious after yesterday's episode - he's a "higher up" in the company, possibly even the head of the company.

And I'm not sure he has a relationship with Linderman, but I wouldn't rule it out. The show hasn't hinted that in any way, though.

Interesting theory.

Sooooo, Linderman wanted to protect his indestructible granddaughter, but didn't give a crap about killing his own son and heir to the throne, Nathan? Is that what you're suggesting?

____________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Well Nathan was going to prosecute Linderman. And Nathan is not the nicest or most moral man in the world.

They didn't find him, they found Peter through Isaac's paintings. If Isaac hadn't tipped to the 'invisible' Peter, they never would have known.

You are right that they used Isaac's painting to narrow down the general location where he was, but I believe they used some sort of heat vision equipment to "see" him. Although invisible, he definitely still interacts with his physical environment enough (by giving off heat, taking up space, footprints, sound, etc.) that somebody with the resources of the company would not find it too difficult to locate him if it was looking.

I thought his role was obvious after yesterday's episode - he's a "higher up" in the company, possibly even the head of the company.

And I'm not sure he has a relationship with Linderman, but I wouldn't rule it out. The show hasn't hinted that in any way, though.

I agree. To take it one step further, I believe that this is the same company that he wanted Hiro to take over from him in Japan. The fact that HRG and others in the company speak fluent Japanese tends to prove that "the company" is a Japanese based company.

So, Hiro's dad has more of a backstory. Cool.Though I believed it was Hiro's dad that sent the Vegas-girl as interference to Ando and himself, I had no idea just how deep he really was in. I also found it hard to believe he travelled so far to personally bring them back to Japan.

Anyways, the ep was fantastic up 'til the point I fell asleep; which was about halfway through it.

Anyone else notice Gustafson (the guy with the pink bag in Vegas) is Dauber (Bill Fagerbakke) from the show Coach? He also does the voice of Patrick the starfish on Spongebob ;)

You are right that they used Isaac's painting to narrow down the general location where he was, but I believe they used some sort of heat vision equipment to "see" him. Although invisible, he definitely still interacts with his physical environment enough (by giving off heat, taking up space, footprints, sound, etc.) that somebody with the resources of the company would not find it too difficult to locate him if it was looking.

The only reason they knew to do that was because of Peter and Isaac's paintings of him. The painting also revealed their exact location (rooftop that HRG would know by sight). Bad luck for Claude, but not exactly Rocket Science for HRG.

On another subject, I think the hero that the invisible man was protecting was Simone's father.I agree.

He's been hanging around the roof of her father's building for years. Of all the places in the world, that's the building he picked. Doesn't seem like a coincidence to me.

LOL except that there were many people manifesting over 15 years ago when HRG started at the 'Paper' factory. So unless an eclipse precipitated that as well....
Interesting that you should mention that number, because there was a total solar eclipse in 1991, 15 years before the show started.

Okay, you tell me. What was the significance (if any) that they just happened to have a total solar eclipse in the first episode? Not exactly typical of a premiering series, is it?

Well Nathan was going to prosecute Linderman. And Nathan is not the nicest or most moral man in the world.
Hey, his mom recently described him as a pushover underneath his gruff exterior. Don't tell me you're doubting the guy's own mom?? :eek: :D

Besides, why would Linderman even want a nice or a moral son. He's apparently one of the Godfathers of the Evolutionary mob. Who would take over his legacy? Peter the Wuss? I think not. :)

_______________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

The only reason they knew to do that was because of Peter and Isaac's paintings of him. The painting also revealed their exact location (rooftop that HRG would know by sight). Bad luck for Claude, but not exactly Rocket Science for HRG.

The original post that I was replying to implied that it was pointless for Claude to fake his own death because he could just disappear and hide. My point was that its a lot easier to hide when nobody is looking for you, and as soon as the company knew to look for Claude, they found him.

Previews are not spoilers! They are how the writers want to delevlope the show. I look forward to them and feel they are part of the experience.

Yes and No. As far as how it is defined on AVS, the previews are not spoiler material. But you are wrong about the writers' intent. There have been many articles discussing how the Heroes' writers are upset with NBC's promos giving too much away. They feel, like I do (and many others) that the previews greatly deteriorate the experience, not enhance it. Normally, I'd agree with you, but for Heroes and 24 (starting this year when they gave away the nuke going off :mad: ) I've stopped watching them.

The final straw for me to stop watching the Heroes previews was when they gave away Claire's father in the previews. Not only did they give away the identity, but they unnecessarily let us know that we would be finding out who her biological father was. When watching the episode, it was clear that the writers meant for those to be dramatic revelations unveiled at the end - not given away in the previews the week before.

Anyway, I stopped closely following this thread because I didn't want to have another key plot point ruined by the previews - but I had to come in and state that this last episode was fantastic. I'm actually looking forward to the next episode of Heroes - more so than 24 or Lost. Never thought that would be the case.

I completely disagree. This was an aweful episode...very disappointing!

If a mother witnessed her teenage daughter getting shot, the mother would go nuts! Wouldn't she? Claires mother has no idea that she can regenerate herelf, so why wasn't the mohter more, MUCH more upset!

Totally pretentious.

nc


True. I do think the mother's reaction was muted.

She's not Claire's real mother. She can always just go adopt another one. ;)

I agree.

He's been hanging around the roof of her father's building for years. Of all the places in the world, that's the building he picked. Doesn't seem like a coincidence to me.

Well, he DID say he was protecting "one of his own". Could have been Simone's dad, or....

One point that I found interesting about the episode is how Claire was entrusted to HRG on the rooftop above Isaac's studio. . . which happens to be where Claude has been hiding. There has to be something special about that place that ties some of these divergent plot threads together. . . If it were any other show, I would say they just didn't have the budget for another location shot :D

I think these are all spoliers because the site said it WOULD happen.

Well, if I had to pick, I guess I would pick Nikki, unless they change it so its not the stupid split personality, more just an ass kicker. But the site the said this would happen said it would be Claire. Well, she said you can tell by the discussion thread who it was and when I looked at the discussion thread it was all about Claire.

The "stupid personality split" will come to an end. According to next week's TV Guide, Ali Larter says "The battle for control between Niki and Jessica leads to a merging or the two, and we have an episode coming up that's set in the future. There is definitely a winner then."

Also, Ali states that she is studying martial arts and taking striptease classes. Larter needs to master the "Kill Bill"" stuff now that Jessica is an assassin for the shadowy Vegas mob boss Linderman. And the stripping is for a secret Heroes twist to be revealed later this season. Something to look forward to for Ali fans!

Okay, so how does this all tie-in with the eclipse in the pilot episode? It seemed to be suggesting some kind of relationship (or at least analogy), unless it was entirely intended as misdirection.

_________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance fravors the prepared mind

During the Pilot, not all of the storylines were created yet. At that point in time they weren't sure wether or not to have a real nuclear threat or make it a supernatural one. Maybe it takes an eclipse every 10 years or so to awaken the powers thus we see different generations of "mutants.

One point that I found interesting about the episode is how Claire was entrusted to HRG on the rooftop above Isaac's studio. . . which happens to be where Claude has been hiding. There has to be something special about that place that ties some of these divergent plot threads together. . . If it were any other show, I would say they just didn't have the budget for another location shot :D


Budget has more to do with it than you think ;)

Any thoughts on why HRG chose to have himself shot in the gut? Intestinal gunshot wounds are among the worst and hardest to treat. Besides the bacterial infection issue, there's a great possibility of radical surgery to remove/repair the damaged section(s). At best, he's looking at many, many weeks of recovery, if he doesn't die.

I know he wanted it to look convincing, but a shot to the shoulder would have been as effective, and less dangerous.

Scott

Any thoughts on why HRG chose to have himself shot in the gut? Intestinal gunshot wounds are among the worst and hardest to treat. Besides the bacterial infection issue, there's a great possibility of radical surgery to remove/repair the damaged section(s). At best, he's looking at many, many weeks of recovery, if he doesn't die.

I know he wanted it to look convincing, but a shot to the shoulder would have been as effective, and less dangerous.I don't think a shoulder injury would have been convincing. A shot to the stomach area is incapacitating, whereas a shoulder injury is not.

I'm still not clear on the role of Hiro's father in all this. He had Claire in his arms and turned her over ro HRG after she was rescued from her firestarter mom.
....
I think Hero's father is just another official of the group that includes the Eric Roberts character. We, the audience, seem to have settled on some genetic trait for the hero syndrome. As with many traits, even if the parents are carriers, the offspring may not show symptoms or develop the syndrome. This would be the reason to place these suspect children in the care of foster parents who also work for the group so the kids can be monitored. The natural parents are out of the picture because they wouldn't go along with the grand scheme or were disected for study.

YMMV

The shoulder shot is iffy if the bullet deflects when it hits it could hit the subclavian or carotid arteries. The lower left quadrant had the least chance of damaging any major solid organs. Just my 2cents. :D

The word is "moot," meaning arguable or debatable. The Knights Who Say "Moot" declaim:

Moot actually implies "beyond debate", as in "of no legal significance (as having been previously decided)".

I'm defending the word because it's just fun to say "moot".

best episode I've seen to date!No question. This was an hour of exceptionally superior television.

I am saying this in jest, but now that even Simone is a hero or everybody and their brother is a hero, I just hope Mr Muggles isn't one too.

I am saying this in jest, but now that even Simone is a hero or everybody and their brother is a hero, I just hope Mr Muggles isn't one too.


But we don't know Simone is a hero... I'm betting that scene is part of a dream he has where he's feeling guilty for shooting her.

As for Mr. Muggles... He'd be a GREAT hero!!! I bet he has Underdog DNA!!!

Go Mr. Muggles! :)

I am saying this in jest, but now that even Simone is a hero or everybody and their brother is a hero, I just hope Mr Muggles isn't one too.


I think Simone is going to turn out evil.. Just a guess.. Everyone a hero is cheesy..

No question. This was an hour of exceptionally superior television.

This episode was my favorite thus far. I kept waiting for the easy ending of Mr Bennet being all powerful and just talking his way out of it all. Instead we got to see how difficult/compromised/requiring sacrifice his situation was. That was something.

This show rocks. It really makes you care about the characters and what happens to them next.

I do find the "soap opera" affect of every character have a single degree of separation from all other character a bit bothersome, but I suppose writers need some device though to give the audience "wows" and "twists".
We now have a very tight circle of relations - Hiro's dad knows Claire, and of course Claire's real dad's brother is now friends with Dr Who (oops, I mean invisible man) and Niki has a fling with Claire's dad, and Niki has found Parkman.

The Knights Who Say "Moot" declaim:

Moot actually implies "beyond debate", as in "of no legal significance (as having been previously decided)".

I'm defending the word because it's just fun to say "moot".

Actually, the word "moot" in a legal context, means "no longer relevant" rather than "beyond debate" because of the occurance of some event. For example, if someone cremated Anna Nicole Smith's body and scattered her ashes to the four winds, the case about where she should be burried would be moot.

I'm not sure what else you think she should have done. Her daughter was shot, she rushed over and held her and was sobbing...and she was just returning from the hospital. As a previous poster suggested, she was still weak and probably still a little shell shocked.
Perhaps, and I do see your point here. Maybe I'm thinkin' I'd act differently, MORE upset. I also thought there would have been a helluva lot more blood.

nc

Any thoughts on why HRG chose to have himself shot in the gut? Intestinal gunshot wounds are among the worst and hardest to treat...


Not according to Reservoir Dogs. Maybe HRG trusts his life to Quentin Tarantino's medical opinion.

Great episode, by the way. The scene where Claire went inside the burning house to save her dad was really corny, though. If she'd just run in, grabbed the needle, and injected Ted it would've been more effective. Her and HRG having that tender father-daughter moment inside a burning, radioactive building was almost more than I could take. Where was the urgency?! (Also, why doesn't everyone have radiation poisoning?) Even with that, it was probably the best episode so far.

And I agree with all the Lost apologists on this thread...we'll see how Heroes is doing in two seasons :)

I am saying this in jest, but now that even Simone is a hero or everybody and their brother is a hero, I just hope Mr Muggles isn't one too.

Mr Muggles superpower will be "tremendous biting" ability. He can open his mouth into a wide gaping maw like that shown in "Blade-Trinity."

:D

Okay, so how does this all tie-in with the eclipse in the pilot episode? It seemed to be suggesting some kind of relationship (or at least analogy), unless it was entirely intended as misdirection.

_________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance fravors the prepared mind

They creator already said the eclipse didn't have anything to do with them getting their power. Just an event that is symbolic of change. Remember, in the flash back episode, a lot of heroes already knew they had powers and Claude used his for years. The eclipse didn't do anything.

But we don't know Simone is a hero... I'm betting that scene is part of a dream he has where he's feeling guilty for shooting her.

As for Mr. Muggles... He'd be a GREAT hero!!! I bet he has Underdog DNA!!!

I think Simone is dead. Why they are seeing her is because of the new hero. In that scene they show Isaac stumbling back and HRG is there. So the other hero is probably there and can make you see things.

Or the new hero is a shape-changer/chameleon type.

The original post that I was replying to implied that it was pointless for Claude to fake his own death because he could just disappear and hide. My point was that its a lot easier to hide when nobody is looking for you, and as soon as the company knew to look for Claude, they found him.

Not entirely, they found him without looking for him through Isaac's paintings. Once they knew where to look, they used the technology to see him. WIthout Isaac, they never would have known.

As for Mr. Muggles... He'd be a GREAT hero!!! I bet he has Underdog DNA!!!

Noooooooooooooooooo! :eek:

http://www.apple.com/trailers/disney/underdog/

Not entirely, they found him without looking for him through Isaac's paintings. Once they knew where to look, they used the technology to see him. WIthout Isaac, they never would have known.
They discovered he was alive through Isaac's paintings. And since Isaac paints the future they knew where he would be as well.

There's no way to know how fast the company could've found him otherwise, but the point remains the same - with the company thinking he was dead he was a lot less likely to be discovered and found.

IMHO
The eclipse is an artful way of showing the Light (heroes) being blocked by humanity but starting to show though.

IMHO
The eclipse is an artful way of showing the Light (heroes) being blocked by humanity but starting to show though.
So...the heroes aren't human then?

Interesting that you should mention that number, because there was a total solar eclipse in 1991, 15 years before the show started.

Okay, you tell me. What was the significance (if any) that they just happened to have a total solar eclipse in the first episode? Not exactly typical of a premiering series, is it?


Could be, but i think the eclipse thing was an idea that creator Tim Kring initially had that went nowhere. Believe it or not, but the writers do make this stuff up as they go along, and often things that look promising or seem interesting are dropped as the show develops different concepts and moves in another direction. I suspect that's the case with the eclipse: it started out as a neat, visual way to trigger the "hero" powers, but once the story got going it became clear that other heroes existed long before the eclipse, making it a sort of red herring. Remember, the pilot script was probably written well over a year ago and the series outline finalized only after the show was picked up.

So...the heroes aren't human then?

Yes, just a new evolution of them.

Could be, but i think the eclipse thing was an idea that creator Tim Kring initially had that went nowhere. Believe it or not, but the writers do make this stuff up as they go along, and often things that look promising or seem interesting are dropped as the show develops different concepts and moves in another direction. I suspect that's the case with the eclipse: it started out as a neat, visual way to trigger the "hero" powers, but once the story got going it became clear that other heroes existed long before the eclipse, making it a sort of red herring. Remember, the pilot script was probably written well over a year ago and the series outline finalized only after the show was picked up.

I tried to explain this in a post above. The show has taken on a different direction from once it was first conceived. Originally the bomb was supposed to be caused by terrorists and not ted/peter or something else. This was changed due to the fact there were already a few shows dealing with post apocalyptic events after a nuclear explosion (Jerico to name one).. So they changed the whole premise of all the heroes starting to get their powers all at the same time during the eclipse and have made the series more X-men like by adding so many more characters. HRG became a likeable character after the last episode and I am sorry to see his character lose all memory of his adopted daughter Claire. I wish they hadn't killed off Charlie since she would have made an excellent addition to the whole heroes team. I also liked Eden and felt her departure was premature. The only storyline I don't follow or like too much is the ALi Larter Nikki character. It is getting old fast. They need to do a Superman III fight between them fast and move on... Overall the series is very good and the cliffhangers keep me coming back..

I believe that to be a real possibility since controlling multiple powers is the lesson he was trying to teach Peter.

YMMV

It might be that he can heal in a slower fashion than Claire as his second power.. That would be why he was hitting Peter like mad and wasn't afraid to throw him off the building..

I thought Peter threw him off the building - didn't he say something like "I'm doing something unexpected..."?

I thought Peter threw him off the building - didn't he say something like "I'm doing something unexpected..."?

I believe he's referring to the first time, when he threw Peter off the roof and onto a car.

I believe he's referring to the first time, when he threw Peter off the roof and onto a car.
Gotcha. I thought we were still on the whole thing when they were discovered there using the night vision goggles.

It might be that he can heal in a slower fashion than Claire as his second power.. That would be why he was hitting Peter like mad and wasn't afraid to throw him off the building..
Why do so many people seem to think Claude has more than one power? When has the show ever hinted at that? He's the invisible man, not the invisible healing man. ;)

Why do so many people seem to think Claude has more than one power? When has the show ever hinted at that? He's the invisible man, not the invisible healing man. ;)

Only after the last episode where he took quite a few bullets in the chest. However it is a theory the same way the theory keeps floating around he simply was wearing a bullet proof vest. Either way HRG must have known where to shoot him so he has a chance to survive since he told the Haitian where he wanted to be shot.. Who knows. it is a mystery we'll have to wait ti find out on..

I agree, Claude doesn't have multiple powers. No one does except Sylar and Peter and that is because that is how their main power functions and/or allows. Healing isn't even close to a side effect or ability from turning invisible.

Only after the last episode where he took quite a few bullets in the chest. However it is a theory the same way the theory keeps floating around he simply was wearing a bullet proof vest. Either way HRG must have known where to shoot him so he has a chance to survive since he told the Haitian where he wanted to be shot.. Who knows. it is a mystery we'll have to wait ti find out on..
Yeah but that didn't hint that he had healing powers, just that he didn't die. And HRG wanted him dead, so he wouldn't have shot him where he'd have a good chance of survival on purpose.

I agree, Claude doesn't have multiple powers. No one does except Sylar and Peter and that is because that is how their main power functions and/or allows.


Well we know for a fact that isn't necessarily accurate. Claude knew right away what type of 'hero' Peter was by describing his manifestations... "ONE of THOSE.." Claude said. So there have been others like Peter and Sylar, but did they survive...

Yeah but that didn't hint that he had healing powers, just that he didn't die. And HRG wanted him dead, so he wouldn't have shot him where he'd have a good chance of survival on purpose.

I'm not so sure HRG wanted him dead, but it's pretty clear his bosses did. It seemed to me that HRG was going to let him go, that the "execution" was all for show (the "second invisible person" theory) then the gun fired "accidentally", then HRG seemingly got with the program and popped off a couple more. It was a very strange scene and certainly posed more questions than it answered. The good news is that this show probably won't drag those questions out; I suspect we'll revisit that scene before too long.

Does anyone know how long the period was between the time Claude met HRG and the time Claude's execution was ordered? Had they had the chance to become friends? That would be relevant as to whether or not he really intended to kill Claude, or just make it look that way.

I'm not so sure HRG wanted him dead, but it's pretty clear his bosses did. It seemed to me that HRG was going to let him go, that the "execution" was all for show (the "second invisible person" theory) then the gun fired "accidentally", then HRG seemingly got with the program and popped off a couple more. It was a very strange scene and certainly posed more questions than it answered. The good news is that this show probably won't drag those questions out; I suspect we'll revisit that scene before too long.

Does anyone know how long the period was between the time Claude met HRG and the time Claude's execution was ordered? Had they had the chance to become friends? That would be relevant as to whether or not he really intended to kill Claude, or just make it look that way.
I think you're confusing what HRG wanted to do and what he intended to do. From what he said, he fully intended on killing Claude. It never seemed once in that scene that HRG was going to let him go, just that he didn't want to do what he had to do.

I think you're confusing what HRG wanted to do and what he intended to do. From what he said, he fully intended on killing Claude. It never seemed once in that scene that HRG was going to let him go, just that he didn't want to do what he had to do.

You clearly interpreted the scene differently from me. That's okay; the "real" answer is probably one neither of us foresaw. ;) They'll revisit that scene before long, I'm sure.

I'm not so sure HRG wanted him dead, but it's pretty clear his bosses did. It seemed to me that HRG was going to let him go, that the "execution" was all for show (the "second invisible person" theory) then the gun fired "accidentally", then HRG seemingly got with the program and popped off a couple more. It was a very strange scene and certainly posed more questions than it answered.

Over at Greg Beeman's production blog, he talks to the editor Donn Aron who references that scene in particular. From his comments I took it that we might be reading more into it than we should.

DA: I’d like to talk about one scene Allan [director] did a terrific job with. Two scenes actually, that parallel each other. The one, in black and white, where Claire’s father is going to kill Claude. And the same scene repeats itself, shot-for-shot in the end, when Claire’s father drives Claire to the same bridge where he shot Claude so many years ago. Because the shots are the same, it breaks your heart. Because the shots are all the same, you know what’s going to happen. And in both scenes there is this big sweeping crane shot as the car arrives on the bridge. Allan told me his plan before he shot it, but I know he shot all those shots on different days, and that there were weather issues so he had to go back. And some actors weren’t available. So it was all shot piecemeal, but it goes together perfectly.

One moment I especially like is when Claire’s father shoots Claude. He has this surprised look on his face, like he can’t believe what just happened. He pulled the trigger, but still he can’t believe it. And then he shoots him again. It’s a wonderful moment.

http://gregbeeman.blogspot.com/

And I agree with all the Lost apologists on this thread...we'll see how Heroes is doing in two seasons :)

Let's hope the people in charge keep a laser focus on the pacing, just keep doing what they're doing--anwering old questions, then introducing new ones, keeping it fresh. If only Lost could follow the same pacing.

Let's hope the people in charge keep a laser focus on the pacing, just keep doing what they're doing--anwering old questions, then introducing new ones, keeping it fresh. If only Lost could follow the same pacing.Agreed.

Pacing has a lot to do with what makes this show great. Battlestar Galactica could take a few lessons.

They creator already said the eclipse didn't have anything to do with them getting their power.
Never read any interviews with the author, so I didn’t know he said that. Still, its kind of weird to keep it as the program’s logo, when it doesn’t have to do with anything.

Just an event that is symbolic of change.
Ummm…that’s really quite a bit of a stretch, isn’t it? I like eclipses as much as the next guy (maybe more so), but to use it as a metaphor for ‘change’?? I think that’s pushing it.

IMHO
The eclipse is an artful way of showing the Light (heroes) being blocked by humanity but starting to show though.
Geez, I’m starting to feel like I walked into a Yoga class with all this stretching going on. :)
Artful?? C’mon this is commercial network TV we’re talkin’ about, right? I don’t think the creator was striving for anything other than a cool image. Meaningless in this context, but cool.

Could be, but i think the eclipse thing was an idea that creator Tim Kring initially had that went nowhere. Believe it or not, but the writers do make this stuff up as they go along, and often things that look promising or seem interesting are dropped as the show develops different concepts and moves in another direction. I suspect that's the case with the eclipse: it started out as a neat, visual way to trigger the "hero" powers, but once the story got going it became clear that other heroes existed long before the eclipse, making it a sort of red herring.
Yup, that makes the most sense to me, too. I’m with you. ;)

I tried to explain this in a post above. The show has taken on a different direction from once it was first conceived…..So they changed the whole premise of all the heroes starting to get their powers all at the same time during the eclipse and have made the series more X-men like by adding so many more characters.
Now its all coming together. So once the ‘eclipse’ concept was ditched, it was too difficult for the creator of this clever and interesting program, to come up with a different logo? :rolleyes:

HRG became a likeable character after the last episode and I am sorry to see his character lose all memory of his adopted daughter Claire.
I always liked HRG, and never took the attempt to portray him as strictly a villain, seriously.

I wish they hadn't killed off Charlie since she would have made an excellent addition to the whole heroes team. I also liked Eden and felt her departure was premature. The only storyline I don't follow or like too much is the ALi Larter Nikki character. It is getting old fast. They need to do a Superman III fight between them fast and move on... Overall the series is very good and the cliffhangers keep me coming back..
Charley was cute and would have made a nice addition. I was really sorry to lose Eden, as well. One of the more interesting personalities in the group. But, I think she suffered from the ‘being too powerful' syndrome, the same potential problem that threatens Hiro, Peter and Claire. I haven’t liked the Nikki character or plot either since day one, and consider this the weakest link in the series, although I liked the concept of giving super strength to a chick This is a fun and well paced show, except when Nikki and her family shows up.

________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

I tried to explain this in a post above. The show has taken on a different direction from once it was first conceived. Originally the bomb was supposed to be caused by terrorists and not ted/peter or something else. This was changed due to the fact there were already a few shows dealing with post apocalyptic events after a nuclear explosion (Jerico to name one)..

which you can see in the unaired pilot. The train crash that Claire encounters was apparently carrying a nuclear device and is seen being taken away from the crash scene in the back of a van.

Another interesting change from the pilot was Isaac originally chained himself to a radiator when he went cold turkey, only to succumb to his addiction and cut off his own hand (in Saw style) to reach his drugs.

Those interested can read more little snippets here:

http://heroeswiki.com/In_His_Own_Image

Does anyone know how long the period was between the time Claude met HRG and the time Claude's execution was ordered? Had they had the chance to become friends? That would be relevant as to whether or not he really intended to kill Claude, or just make it look that way.The B/W flashback skipped ahead to one year later, if I'm not mistaken.

The B/W flashback skipped ahead to one year later, if I'm not mistaken.

yeah they had been partners at least a year. The flashback started 15 years earlier and Claire was given to George Takei one year later.

Another interesting change from the pilot was Isaac originally chained himself to a radiator when he went cold turkey, only to succumb to his addiction and cut off his own hand (in Saw style) to reach his drugs.


I'm wondering if the fact that Prison Break had that exact same scenario this season (T-bag) made the Heroes producers change their mind?

Charley was cute and would have made a nice addition. I was really sorry to lose Eden, as well. One of the more interesting personalities in the group. But, I think she suffered from the ‘being too powerful' syndrome, the same potential problem that threatens Hiro, Peter and Claire. I haven’t liked the Nikki character or plot either since day one, and consider this the weakest link in the series, although I liked the concept of giving super strength to a chick This is a fun and well paced show, except when Nikki and her family shows up.


More dittos on the Nikki/Jess storyline. The show screeches to a halt when it switches over to that.

I have no idea why though. Ali Larter is "smokin' hot." She's has super-strength (cool). And, she is/was a stripper so we get glimpses of her in little to no clothing. This should be the high point of the show. :D

Well we know for a fact that isn't necessarily accurate. Claude knew right away what type of 'hero' Peter was by describing his manifestations... "ONE of THOSE.." Claude said. So there have been others like Peter and Sylar, but did they survive...

If there are more it is because their power allows them to have more. He said it to Peter because he knew his kind of power would allow him to have multiple. What we are saying is that Invisibility doesn't allow you to have multiple powers.

you will see that she is more important then you guys think....

you will see that she is more important then you guys think....

You're always dropping these little "mini-spoilers" for want of a better term. I don't mind them since they don't really give that much away, but I am curious as to how you're getting your information...? If you have an "inside source", what is it? If you're going to keep doing this, at least let us know how you're doing it...

I'm with archi.

I don't mind the spoilers, since the poster has been pretty discrete about what he/she is revealing...but I would be interested in the source too.

The B/W flashback skipped ahead to one year later, if I'm not mistaken.

It was 7 or 8 years, it indicated it in text. I just can't remember which.

If there are more it is because their power allows them to have more. He said it to Peter because he knew his kind of power would allow him to have multiple. What we are saying is that Invisibility doesn't allow you to have multiple powers.


Just to clarify, the OP stated that only Sylar and Peter could absorb powers. And my response was to remind him/her that Claude wasn't the least surprised that Peter could do that, he'd encountered people with that ability before. Hence his "one of THOSE" comments.

I wasn't referring to Claude and his power(s) at all.

i cant say... but what i can say is next weeks episode will be the best one yet...

i cant say... but what i can say is next weeks episode will be the best one yet...

ARRRGGGGHHHHH!!!! C'mon Dude, give it up! You're anonymous on this board; we won't rat you out, promise. :p

i cant say... but what i can say is next weeks episode will be the best one yet...

OMG, you're Hiro! You do it by time travel!

I have you figured out buddy! ;)

You're always dropping these little "mini-spoilers" for want of a better term. I don't mind them since they don't really give that much away, but I am curious as to how you're getting your information...? If you have an "inside source", what is it? If you're going to keep doing this, at least let us know how you're doing it...
I don't know about that. I, for one, find them disruptive. It causes me to potentially focus on something I might not normally focus on while looking for this "importance" that is supposed to occur at some point.

I don't want to know in advance a character is supposed to take a more active role. I don't want to know in advance an actor has been hired for a role. These little hints are spoilers. I enjoy discussing a show once it airs, but don't ruin future episodes for me. The promos are fair game (though I prefer not to watch those, either) because the air within the show. Hints of a character's impending importance is not speculation nor was it in the promos.

Sorry, but those hints shouldn't be here.

ARRRGGGGHHHHH!!!! C'mon Dude, give it up! You're anonymous on this board; we won't rat you out, promise. :p

I have a better idea; just shut up. It sounds like a nine year old "I know something that you don't". Many of us don't want to know and for those who do, put it in spoilers and cut the crap.

i cant say... but what i can say is next weeks episode will be the best one yet...Considering the quality of the last episode, I find that hard to believe. But if true, it would be a pleasant surprise.

i have to say though last week was a great episode....

but doesnt it seem from the previews that Mohinder might be fooling Sylar?

i have to say though last week was a great episode....

but doesnt it seem from the previews that Mohinder might be fooling Sylar?

Um, dunno. You tell us. ;)

you will see that she is more important then you guys think....
If this is intended to address the general sentiment here concerning Nikki/Jess, I think we're talking at cross-purposes.

Speaking for myself only, I don't really care whether she's important or not, because every time this plotline shows up, its like this well-paced show has suddenly dropped anchor. She could be carrying Nathan Petrelli's baby for all I know, (he hasn't proven to be the most discrete guy, so maybe protection isn't part of his approach ;) ), and I stiil don't think they could make her interesting. And the Micah/DL baggage only compounds it.

Don't get me wrong. I think Ali Larter is an incredibly beautiful woman, and if they want to devote 5 minutes of each episode to letting her run around in scanty underwear (or less) , and forget the affect of the whole split personality gimmick, you've got my vote :).

Frankly, if they're going to keep her as a prominent character, they should ditch the internal struggle and just make Jessica the over-the-top supervillian she should be. Clearly, its going to take more than just Skylar on the dark side, to keep this series going.

____________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

but doesnt it seem from the previews that Mohinder might be fooling Sylar?
Well after the events of 2 eps ago, its either that or he's incredibly stupid. Maybe next week will start with HRG knocking his fist on Sulesh's forehead 'Biff-style', and saying "Hello... McFly...Is anybody home?" :D

______________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

OMG, you're Hiro! You do it by time travel!If he was really Hiro, he probably wouldn't be living in Jersey City. ;)

i am still traveling..... Ando lives in jersey city... :)

Just to clarify, the OP stated that only Sylar and Peter could absorb powers. And my response was to remind him/her that Claude wasn't the least surprised that Peter could do that, he'd encountered people with that ability before. Hence his "one of THOSE" comments.

I wasn't referring to Claude and his power(s) at all.

Roger that!

Kristen from E online had the following to say when she visited the set. Since so many people are sensitive I will put it in a spoiler thread but I don't feel there are any spoilers in it, no names, just a glimpse at a battle coming up.

I just went to the Heroes set and...Oh. My. Gore. I can show you just about...oh, let's see...nothing from my visit for the time being, because it's such a huge, secret episode, and I'm under strict orders from NBC. Let's just say there was a bloody, gory, end-of-the-world battle going on, with lots of blood and bumps and bruises (perhaps life-threatening) for some of our Heroic faves, so I can't show you any of the gruesome footage until closer to the episode's airdate (sometime in April or May). But, ohhh, how I can't wait to show you! It's gonna be insane! Bloody insane!

Now, that will be the show I can't wait to see, can you imagine, if they do it right, how freaking cool that will be!!!!!!!!!!!!

i have to say though last week was a great episode....

but doesnt it seem from the previews that Mohinder might be fooling Sylar?

I don't watch the previews but I can say if I were Mohinder and I suspected Sylar I sure would not show my hand so nothing in that thread would surprise me.

Speaking for myself only, I don't really care whether she's important or not, because every time this plotline shows up, its like this well-paced show has suddenly dropped anchor. She could be carrying Nathan Petrelli's baby for all I know, (he hasn't proven to be the most discrete guy, so maybe protection isn't part of his approach ;) ), and I stiil don't think they could make her interesting. And the Micah/DL baggage only compounds it....

Frankly, if they're going to keep her as a prominent character, they should ditch the internal struggle and just make Jessica the over-the-top supervillian she should be. Clearly, its going to take more than just Skylar on the dark side, to keep this series going.

Chance favors the prepared mind

I pretty much agree with you all the way but I don't really know why the Nikki storyline is so boring to me.

I pretty much agree with you all the way but I don't really know why the Nikki storyline is so boring to me.
I think because as of so far it's been disconnected from the rest of the story. All of the other heroes seemed to have connected paths and destinies, and while Nikki did meet with Nathan, she always seemed to have a completely different story. Whenever she'd get screen time we'd lose screen time with other heroes we deemed more important.

That's why I think her becoming a Linderman hitwoman will make it much better. She'll probably be after some of the Heroes and it'll make for a much better use of her character.

the last episodes are very top secret...there is a little break happening but it will be good

I don't know about that. I, for one, find them disruptive.
Me, too. I finally added RAVEN56706 to my Ignore list so I could avoid his "teasers."

Now, if people would just stop quoting him...

~Dan

I think because as of so far it's been disconnected from the rest of the story. All of the other heroes seemed to have connected paths and destinies, and while Nikki did meet with Nathan, she always seemed to have a completely different story. Whenever she'd get screen time we'd lose screen time with other heroes we deemed more important.

That's why I think her becoming a Linderman hitwoman will make it much better. She'll probably be after some of the Heroes and it'll make for a much better use of her character.

Really?

I think it is a different reason: The whole Nikki/Jessica storyline SUCKS. Just flat out sucks. Has nothing to do with Ali Larter, or her storyline being removed from other subplots, but in Nikki/Jessica, it started out good.

Nikki blacked out and realized she did ridiculous things during the black out with super strength. That was cool. We all THOUGHT she was discovering her power.

But NOOOOOOOOOOOOO, it turns out she has multiple personality disorder, and her other personality has the power. As soon as we realized she had multiple personalities, I majorly groaned and still do every time she shows up.

If she could have just discovered her powers like everyone else, all would be good. But this multiple personality things sucks big time, and it doesn't help that the sub-sub-plots involving her husband and son aren't that interesting too.

I am going to Wondercon 2007 this Saturday in SF (I go every year) and Ali Larter is a guest talking about some movie. I plan to ask her if she knows if her character will die soon because all of us Heroes fans think her character sucks (Although she plays it well)..

Me, too. I finally added RAVEN56706 to my Ignore list so I could avoid his "teasers."

Now, if people would just stop quoting him...

~Dan

Great idea. I just did the same. First time ever.

Well pappy97, if you do meet Ali, don't quote me in your "all of us Heroes fans" question. Now granted, I'm not the most critical viewer in the world, but I don't hate Nikki/Jessica or that storyline. I do agree with thejokell, that now that she's working for Linderman, she should interact with the others more. We know Nathan is her next assignment. The last episode she was in gave some hints that Nikki is beginning to assert herself more over Jessica, so I'm looking forward to more development in her and her family's story.

I am going to Wondercon 2007 this Saturday in SF (I go every year) and Ali Larter is a guest talking about some movie. I plan to ask her if she knows if her character will die soon because all of us Heroes fans think her character sucks (Although she plays it well)..
Spoken like a true comic book geek. I'm sure she'll appreciate the sentiment.

Really?

I think it is a different reason: The whole Nikki/Jessica storyline SUCKS. Just flat out sucks. Has nothing to do with Ali Larter, or her storyline being removed from other subplots, but in Nikki/Jessica, it started out good.



I think both of you hit on part of it. The Nikki storyline has not gone anywhere as far as the others AND who the heck will be the hero (Nikki or Jessi)?! Get somewhere already. I guess they need to provide the background support but now she has already met other heroes and then she goes home and the story seems back to ground zero. Heck, I like Jessi better; at least she has some kind of personality.

I think one of the problems with the Niki/Jessica storyline is that it's so confusing (but maybe that's just me) - where has she been, what has she done and to whom, and how does it fit into the overall arc, where do her loyalties lie? And her husband and son are complete cyphers so far. They have powers, but, so what? None of those characters have been developed to an extent where we can care about them. They could lose them all and the storyline wouldn't slow down a bit.

Well pappy97, if you do meet Ali, don't quote me in your "all of us Heroes fans" question. Now granted, I'm not the most critical viewer in the world, but I don't hate Nikki/Jessica or that storyline. I do agree with thejokell, that now that she's working for Linderman, she should interact with the others more. We know Nathan is her next assignment. The last episode she was in gave some hints that Nikki is beginning to assert herself more over Jessica, so I'm looking forward to more development in her and her family's story.

I am a critical viewer, and while I agree the Jesica/Nikki storyline has been drawn out I found the latest developments to be pretty cool. If she turns into an assassin more often I could get into that. The Matt/Nikki face off was extremely cool, nicely shot and executed. Even if it did remind me of a Luc Besson movie or two.

Multiple personality disorder seems too obvious and does not explain the physical change in the form of the symbol. So I'm thinking along the lines that Jessica actually is her dead sister and has jumped into her body to get revenge on those who killed her. Nikki never had the strength abilities, it was her sister all along.

I pretty much agree with you all the way but I don't really know why the Nikki storyline is so boring to me.
Yeah, I've had that identical issue come to mind, and I've got a few theories in no particular order, in which I've consolidated others' remarks as well..

Multiple Personalities - With all due respect to Ali, portraying multiple personality individuals without making it completely laughable is extremely difficult. Meryl Streep or Helen Mirren might be able to pull it off, but Ms. Larter doesn't have their acting chops yet. Nikki is summed up by a vulnerable quiver, and Jessica is an arched eyebrow and an ocassional sneer. She's turned into a one-trick pony, and I cringe everytime Ali enters a room that has a mirror ANYWHERE in it.

DL and Micah - window dressing to distract us from how one dimensional Nikki/Jess appear even if they weren't really one dimensional. DL probably would have worked much better if he was the bad-ass they originally suggested him to be. If they didn't wart to give Jess the spice that her character needed to work better, then they should have passed it on to DL.

And her husband and son are complete cyphers so far. They have powers, but, so what? None of those characters have been developed to an extent where we can care about them. They could lose them all and the storyline wouldn't slow down a bit.
Oh yeah, this one's a biggie. I couldn't care less about these 3, as individuals or as a group. How Come? I care about Claire and HRG. I care about Parkman and his wife. I care about the social misfits (Peter & Claude). But I have the same zero response to the Niki clan on an emotional level, as I do to skim milk..

I'm telling you, If there's any hope for Nikki, first thing to do is get the father and the son out of the picture. Use a 'Lost' device like having them kidnapped by Sylar or frozen in ice, WHATEVER. Then cut Jess loose to be the tough, deadly, sassy super bitch, who would be interesting to watch, even if you were rooting for the hero she was fighting.

Otherwise the creators should abandon this storyline for the dead weight it has become.

______________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

I'm telling you, If there's any hope for Nikki, first thing to do is get the father and the son out of the picture. Use a 'Lost' device like having them kidnapped by Sylar or frozen in ice, WHATEVER. Then cut Jess loose to be the tough, deadly, sassy super bitch, who would be interesting to watch, even if you were rooting for the hero she was fighting.
...and leather. She must wear skin-tight leather. All the best super-assassin women wear skin-tight leather. I think it's to shrug off offensive hand-holds during an escape spin move and high-kick follow-up. That clears the way to shoot a hole in the floor to escape....

We still have to have the matchup of Micah vs Internet Woman...You know they won't kill off Micah because he’s a kid...

Most everyone agrees the Nikki storyline is getting old, and the only cool thing about it is when she faced off against Parkman which is when she is bad. Other than that I wish those scenes would end quickly because the rest of the characters are plotlines I care about.

The Claude "One of Those" comment is interesting because it appears they have dealt with others like Peter in the past. Sylar is unique and that is why they were keeping him alive. Also, is the Haitian able to nullify people’s powers when he is around them? It seemed he had that ability early on in the season but it has seemed to disappear towards the last few episodes. Who knows?

What I'm wondering, and nobody has talked about yet on here is if Peter has met Nikki, could he be going thru a double personality as well?

What I'm wondering, and nobody has talked about yet on here is if Peter has met Nikki, could he be going thru a double personality as well?
Why would that happen? Her power is super strength...

...and leather. She must wear skin-tight leather. All the best super-assassin women wear skin-tight leather. I think it's to shrug off offensive hand-holds during an escape spin move and high-kick follow-up. That clears the way to shoot a hole in the floor to escape....
Definitely, there's just nothing quite like a good looking female in skin tight black leather...I've watched that movie multiples times, sometimes just those scenes.. :p

The Claude "One of Those" comment is interesting because it appears they have dealt with others like Peter in the past. Sylar is unique and that is why they were keeping him alive.
You sort of suggest - as have others - that whatever organization HRG is working for is in the business of tracking down, capturing, and then killing these heroes/mutants. But do we really know that for sure? I can't remember hearing that said, specifically, though both Claude and others have certainly suggested that HRG's group can be a threat to the heroes' existence. Personally, I don't think it's as cut-and-dried or black-and-white as that. The organization has been around for at least 15+ years, but these heroes seem to be really crawling out of the woodwork only now - though obviously there's a lot about the past that we don't know yet. It seems to me that HRG is less interesting in killing the heroes than in tracking them, studying them, and recruiting them to the cause. At least the ones that, unlike Sylar, aren't downright evil.

Definitely, there's just nothing quite like a good looking female in skin tight black leather...I've watched that movie multiples times, sometimes just those scenes.. :p
It's scenes like those that gave me so much hope for Dark Angel and Alias. Then the mythology began....

Let's hope Heros doesn't resort to mass hero rescues from some government facility or some strange artifacts related to special powers - or aliens...


...or government agents pretending to be aliens...



See, the post was on topic..... :D :D

Why would that happen? Her power is super strength...

The genetic trait in her character is both Jessica and Nikki are one body yet two minds. Nikki gains conrtol when Jessica feels scared or lost. If both minds have a Superman III type of battle where we see two physical bodies in real life fighting when in reality the battle is in one persons head...Nikki gets killed and Jessica remains with her super strengh. However this implies that both will have super strengh as they are fighting.. It is going to have to take willpower to break free so she can stop Nikki from doing something bad in a future episode..At that point the fight begins and ends..

I do believe Jessica as capable of superstrengh, she just doesn't know how to bring it out.. Once Niki is defeated in this Superman III battle, we shall see if Jessie will be a super strong heroe afterwards..

Hold on. I get what you're saying, but before you said "if Peter has met Nikki, could he be going thru a double personality as well" implying the split-personality *IS* Nikki's power (or at least one of them).

I'm saying the split-personality is separate from her (or Jessica's, whatever) power.

While Jesse is obviously not a very nice person I've still enjoyed the Nicki/Jessi episodes and story arc. I'm a bit surprised how much grief she's now getting here.

Her struggle to integrate the two personalities while engaged in wild and powerful adventures adds something to the show. And I think she's sexy.

- Tom

I do believe Jessica as capable of superstrengh, she just doesn't know how to bring it out.. Once Niki is defeated in this Superman III battle, we shall see if Jessie will be a super strong heroe afterwards..We've seen Nikki use "super strength," which is actually a combination of superior strength + reflexes. Recall the scene where Nikki "wakes up" to find her psychiatrist full of stab wounds. Nikki is in shock over what Jessica did to the psychiatrist just as hospital security comes through the door. One of the staff swings his nightstick at Nikki, and she catches it / breaks it before she realizes what is happening.

I'm saying the split-personality is separate from her (or Jessica's, whatever) power.Agreed. Both have the ability, Jessica is simply more confident / assertive and confrontational, whereas Nikki does everything she can to avoid confrontation. From what I recall, the split personally developed after Nikki witnessed her sister's abuse and murder (by her father). I don't think the split personality has anything to do with her "ability."

I personally like the way the Nikki / Jessica storyline was done with the last two episodes.

Why would that happen? Her power is super strength...

Who knows, maybe her sister had the power to switch bodies...ya never know (although you'd think she'd have switched again by now)

The genetic trait in her character is both Jessica and Nikki are one body yet two minds. Nikki gains conrtol when Jessica feels scared or lost. If both minds have a Superman III type of battle where we see two physical bodies in real life fighting when in reality the battle is in one persons head...Nikki gets killed and Jessica remains with her super strengh. However this implies that both will have super strengh as they are fighting.. It is going to have to take willpower to break free so she can stop Nikki from doing something bad in a future episode..At that point the fight begins and ends..

I do believe Jessica as capable of superstrengh, she just doesn't know how to bring it out.. Once Niki is defeated in this Superman III battle, we shall see if Jessie will be a super strong heroe afterwards..

Um, Clark, you've made a super error; you got the two "sisters" backwards that whole post. ;)

Um, Clark, you've made a super error; you got the two "sisters" backwards that whole post. ;)

Super errors for super heroes

Did we ever find out who Cluade was hiding?

Did we ever find out who Cluade was hiding?
Not yet.

I guess this is a spoiler, it's a bit of info about season two and the end of this season - but nothing is really revealed:

Looks like season two is also volume two, meaning all new characters:
http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=0&id=40354

Multiple Personalities - With all due respect to Ali, portraying multiple personality individuals without making it completely laughable is extremely difficult. Meryl Streep or Helen Mirren might be able to pull it off, but Ms. Larter doesn't have their acting chops yet. Nikki is summed up by a vulnerable quiver, and Jessica is an arched eyebrow and an ocassional sneer. She's turned into a one-trick pony, and I cringe everytime Ali enters a room that has a mirror ANYWHERE in it.


This sums up perfectly my problem with the Nikki/Jessica storyline. Well said!

This sums up perfectly my problem with the Nikki/Jessica storyline. Well said!

Yeah, I agree as well. Ali Larter, while undoubtedly being cute-as-a-button, is very limited as an actress. They need to simplify things for her (I agree with those who suggest "combining" her characters and simply making her a villain) and let her learn her craft with a less demanding role. This show is going to be on for a number of years; she'll improve as time goes on.

Yeah, I like the idea of her "going to the dark side" and leaving her other half behind altogether (hopefully even without those brief glimpses of her "quivering" in the mirror).

She could provide a good villain alternative to Sylar in that way.

Plus, I could see an eventual showdown between her and Wireless who, according to the web comic is highly trained in hand-to-hand combat. Plus, the fact that hot-chick on hot-chick fighting is always cool to see. :D

Um, Clark, you've made a super error; you got the two "sisters" backwards that whole post. ;)

Yes I went dyslexic with that post ;) ...Just switch around the names..You guys know what I'm talking about..

I guess this is a spoiler, it's a bit of info about season two and the end of this season - but nothing is really revealed:

Looks like season two is also volume two, meaning all new characters:
http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=0&id=40354


That would be an unfortunate situation since the characters we've invested time and thought in are what make a show great. Hiro& Ando, Peter &Nathan, Clair, HRG, Claude, Eden/Charlie (even though they died), and Mohinder.. all make up this great show.

This show is going to tank if your spoiler becomes a reality...

That would be an unfortunate situation since the characters we've invested time and thought in are what make a show great. Hiro& Ando, Peter &Nathan, Clair, HRG, Claude, Eden/Charlie (even though they died), and Mohinder.. all make up this great show.

This show is going to tank if your spoiler becomes a reality...
I couldn't disagree more. It's a great way to keep the story fresh, and not drag anything out for years when it should've been done in a season or two (LOST).

i couldnt disagree with you..... come on..... introduce new characters.... is fine... but with the existing ones..... this isnt mtv's the real world... this is heroes.....

I couldn't disagree more. It's a great way to keep the story fresh, and not drag anything out for years when it should've been done in a season or two (LOST).
I completely disagree with this. A great storyline can help our favorite characters evolve over time and make us like them more. While some of the fringe characters can easily go away, you need a core set to transition people into a new story. I hope it isn't true. I can't image they'll be able to come up with characters as compelling as some of the ones they have now. They did too goood of a job right out of the gate. Anything else will be second-rate at this point. Even those characters that were intoduced later in this season don't have the appeal of Hiro, Claire, Peter and even Mr. Bennett. The police officer (I forget his name now) story looks like it could become very interesting if he starts working on "the inside". He kind of becomes a new Fox Mulder - chipping away at the conspiracy from behind enemy lines.

Of course, now that our discussion has essentially revealed the possible spoiler.... ;)

I couldn't disagree more. It's a great way to keep the story fresh, and not drag anything out for years when it should've been done in a season or two (LOST).

The key to this and many other shows is chemistry between characters...I'd advise against them messing around with this too much....

He already clarified that a long time ago. Its not ALL new characters, just that he will be introducing new characters next year (just like they have done this year) to expand the catalog of heroes. Its not going to focus on them only and be central to the story line. He did say that almost all story lines will be wrapped up this year by the end of the season, which will be refreshing for a show.

That's cool in one way, but also lessens the "epic" nature of the conflicts the heroes face.

Oh well, I guess it works in the comic books and on 24.

If you weren't aware, The Digital Bits is reporting that S1 of Heroes will be released on HD DVD in August...FYI. :)

all i can say is the old heroes will be back next season....

all i can say is the old heroes will be back next season....

Except for any ones they may kill off for dramatic purposes between now and the "final battle" this season, I suspect.

Save the Cheerleader----Save the Audience!

I just hope they don't kill off a character that really is making the show what it is. Imagine if on Star Trek they killed off Spock during the end of the first season. Or any of the other major characters.. Then they couldn't have killed of Spock a few decades later and bring him back again....

I think the show is taking a wrong turn if they don't build on the existing characters further. What made Star Trek great was how they did exactly that. Since this show has Hiro who is a Trekker or Trekkie, and Sulu in it already, it only makes sense to emulate that shows success.

We all here seem to agree we love the Claire HRG storyline, as well as HRG's new back-story. I'd like to see that developed more. We all love Hiro since he is someone who is very kind hearted and is really the only person who acts like a hero. I like the Peter/Nathan storyline as well however have found it kind of cheesy to have Nathan be Claire’s father. I was kind of hoping Peter and Claire would have some kind of a romance. I wish Hiro had been successful at saving Charlie..

If I was the writer of the show, I would have Hiro and Charlie be the ones forming the team of superheroes. Charlie with her smarts and Hiro with his power.. I would have had them be the ones to find Mohinder and create their own Batcave like headquarters. This in contrast to HRG's group. Then I would have had them as well as HRG's team be after Peter and Claude for different reasons. HRG's superiors who control their actions by using super powered individuals would be an enemy of Hiro's new team. And yet both have a common enemy in Sylar whom they are both after...

All this could have been season one with more polish and adding the rest of the characters in the mix as well keeping it fresh.

Hiro did say save The World and not save New York. So maybe he wasn't talking about the nuclear explosion only but some other unforeseen event which required Claire’s ability.

Overall I am not disappointed with how the show has gone even though I think it could have been better in some parts. However like all these shows I have no control over anything..

My last gripe is going to be to let the writers know even though it is too late since they already filmed it. Please keep the show going at the current level of quality. It is very hard for a show to strike the right chemistry with an audience and you have done it with the current set of characters.. If you come up with a whole bunch of new storylines and kill off characters we all love and care about.. You will lose many people as an audience... And that show "The Black Donnely's" really stinks. If you have a whole bunch of new characters to introduce with new storylines using the same universe..Please make a new show called Heroes Atlantis that appears afterwards and replace “The Black Donnely’s” PLEASE!!! Thank you.. The current show is an hour too short if you ask me...

But Star Trek did… they killed off Spock.

Then they brought him back.

When you're dealing with Heroes, you don't know they couldn't do the same (Hiro would actually be an interesting candidate, as he could be killed now, but temporally the characters could still encounter "future Hiro" from a point before his death when Hiro had gone into the future.)

Then there's always something like a Claire-like hero that can actually resurrect the dead, and…

But Star Trek did… they killed off Spock.

Then they brought him back.

When you're dealing with Heroes, you don't know they couldn't do the same (Hiro would actually be an interesting candidate, as he could be killed now, but temporally the characters could still encounter "future Hiro" from a point before his death when Hiro had gone into the future.)

Then there's always something like a Claire-like hero that can actually resurrect the dead, and…

Yes but Star Trek killed off Spock after sixteen years... It takes time to build a genuine love for a character where you care about them like family. If heroes follows the same path as Star Trek and multiple spin-offs occur many years later. Lets say the show does as good as Stargate SG-1. It is important to build characters over seasons and not create too many.. X-Men films all suffered because of that. Too many characters and too many stories going on at once. When the Jessica/Nikki/Micah/DL storyline kicks in, or they get an entire episode, it makes me want to throw something at the TV. Granted, someone must like that storyline however of all the forums I visit, it is universally known as the weakest of them all.... There are plenty of characters to like in Heroes. It is simple to build the show around them and not create another show altogether with new characters and new plotline. For that I would want to see a whole other hour and a new show then with new title sequences.

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now and do hope I get to like the "New" characters that are being introduced. Right now I really don't like Ted and I really really don't like the new internet wireless girl...That is a cheesy power. Next thing they will have someone who can turn into a pail of water like Zan of the wonder twins. And Mr. Muggles is actually an alien that is super smart and so forth...

At the moment I look foreword to Mondays. I hope it stays that way once they switch over to these new characters..

And Mr. Muggles is actually an alien that is super smart and so forth...
Mr Muggles... ...will turn out to be Ms. Muggles, who will have a litter of super-pups. But just who is the babies' daddy? Just kiddin'.... :p

Mr Muggles... ...will turn out to be Ms. Muggles, who will have a litter of super-pups. But just who is the babies' daddy? Just kiddin'.... :p

lol

I think the show is taking a wrong turn if they don't build on the existing characters further. What made Star Trek great was how they did exactly that. Since this show has Hiro who is a Trekker or Trekkie, and Sulu in it already, it only makes sense to emulate that shows success.

Actually, Star Trek was never successful until YEARS after its cancellation. It was on the brink of cancellation every season. So in that respect, it is probably the wrong show to emulate!

Actually, Star Trek was never successful until YEARS after its cancellation. It was on the brink of cancellation every season. So in that respect, it is probably the wrong show to emulate!

No because the audience has changed... Stargate SG-1 used the Star Trek example and they've been on for 10 years. They had 4 main characters the whole time give or take one or two leaving and being replaced after 8 years.. Heroes would be great if they develop Hiro, Claire, Haitian, HRG, Peter, Nathan, Issac and Claude which is a lot of characters to build up and work on those. I love the cliff-hangers and don't mind seeing those every episode. It would be nice to have a conclusion at the end of the season with the beggining of a "Justice League" with Hiro, Peter and Claire as the main three leaders since they are the most powerful of the bunch.

No because the audience has changed... Stargate SG-1 used the Star Trek example and they've been on for 10 years. They had 4 main characters the whole time give or take one or two leaving and being replaced after 8 years.. Heroes would be great if they develop Hiro, Claire, Haitian, HRG, Peter, Nathan, Issac and Claude which is a lot of characters to build up and work on those. I love the cliff-hangers and don't mind seeing those every episode. It would be nice to have a conclusion at the end of the season with the beggining of a "Justice League" with Hiro, Peter and Claire as the main three leaders since they are the most powerful of the bunch.

First let me say that this is the best show on tv right now IMHO, but I don't know if I'd want it to go in the "justice league" direction. It would become a different show if they became organized crime fighters. I'm not saying it would be a bad show, but it wouldn't be the show we are enjoying right now.

First let me say that this is the best show on tv right now IMHO, but I don't know if I'd want it to go in the "justice league" direction. It would become a different show if they became organized crime fighters. I'm not saying it would be a bad show, but it wouldn't be the show we are enjoying right now.
I agree, but a Fortress of Solitude or Hall of Justice always makes for good transition element......


"...meanwhile, back at the Hall of Justice...." ;)

.I am going to Wondercon 2007 this Saturday in SF (I go every year) and Ali Larter is a guest talking about some movie. I plan to ask her if she knows if her character will die soon because all of us Heroes fans think her character sucks (Although she plays it well)..

So I was the first in line to ask Ali a question, and asked.

The problem is, most of the Wondercon idiots are non-critical fanboys and don't have the guys to tell her that her character sucks (although it's not her fault, as I tried to say, but was drowned out when I JOKINGLY referred to her as a half-way decent actress).

It was filmed and is on youtube. Check it out for a good laugh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSkyUTnlGfw

So I was the first in line to ask Ali a question, and asked.

The problem is, most of the Wondercon idiots are non-critical fanboys and don't have the guys to tell her that her character sucks (although it's not her fault, as I tried to say, but was drowned out when I JOKINGLY referred to her as a half-way decent actress).

It was filmed and is on youtube. Check it out for a good laugh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSkyUTnlGfw

What's with the annoying music? It adds nothing to your video and takes away from it.

Anyway, you have to learn how to ask a question like this. You just don't blurt something like this out. What you should have asked is: "Will your character be staying with the split personality for long and what are the future plans for the character?"

Don't start off with an insult ESPECIALLY in front of a room full of fans of the show and guys that don't usually get that close to such a gorgeous woman. :)

What's with the annoying music? It adds nothing to your video and takes away from it.

Anyway, you have to learn how to ask a question like this. You just don't blurt something like this out. What you should have asked is: "Will your character be staying with the split personality for long and what are the future plans for the character?"

Don't start off with an insult ESPECIALLY in front of a room full of fans of the show and guys that don't usually get that close to such a gorgeous woman. :)

I didn't make or film the video, so it's not me.

I have to learn how to ask a question? Whatever! Your way would have been too boring and not worthy of the growing notoreity of this video.

As far as the insult, IT WAS A JOKE. ANd I didn't start off with an insult, I started off by getting a pop for referring to Heroes as the best new show on TV.

The joke part was so obviously a joke, and part of the point that she is not to blame for Nikki/Jessica BS, but the writers.

I know I would get a reaction for the half way decent JOKE, just not that crazy. I thought Wondercon fans were intelligent CRITICAL fans who are not simply "yes men!"

What's with the annoying music? It adds nothing to your video and takes away from it.

Anyway, you have to learn how to ask a question like this. You just don't blurt something like this out. What you should have asked is: "Will your character be staying with the split personality for long and what are the future plans for the character?"

Don't start off with an insult ESPECIALLY in front of a room full of fans of the show and guys that don't usually get that close to such a gorgeous woman. :)

I agree....retarded video, especially with the music. I'm suprised she didn't cut him off for the up front insult.

I agree....retarded video, especially with the music. I'm suprised she didn't cut him off for the up front insult.

Up front I said Heroes was the best new show on TV. Guess you missed that part, and sorry you can't read into tone.

THE HALF WAY DECENT THING WAS A JOKE PEOPLE!!!!!!

This is what I was trying to say:

"Most of us fans of Heroes, the best new show on TV, feel that Nikki/Jessica is the worst character on the show. It's not your fault, you're a half-way decent actress (joking tone), but the fault of the writers.

With that said, do you know if your character will get killed off this season or do we have to agonize through another season Nikki/Jessica?"

Up front I said Heroes was the best new show on TV. Guess you missed that part, and sorry you can't read into tone.

THE HALF WAY DECENT THING WAS A JOKE PEOPLE!!!!!!

I saw the look on her face..... it was priceless! I'm sure she was muttering some words with "idiot" on the tail end. LOL...

Well....Ms. Larter seems to be a good sport. But that's probably a question for Tim Kring.

I have to learn how to ask a question? Whatever! Your way would have been too boring and not worthy of the growing notoreity of this video.

As far as the insult, IT WAS A JOKE. ANd I didn't start off with an insult, I started off by getting a pop for referring to Heroes as the best new show on TV.

Growing notoreity (sic)? It's been viewed 45 times?!?!

As for it being a joke, it obviously failed. Whether my way would have been boring or not at least you would have gotten an answer to your question.

Regardless, asking the actress anything about the character is pointless. The writers or producers are the ones that should be asked such questions. The actors just regurgitate the lines.

Growing notoreity (sic)? It's been viewed 45 times?!?!

As for it being a joke, it obviously failed. Whether my way would have been boring or not at least you would have gotten an answer to your question.

Regardless, asking the actress anything about the character is pointless. The writers or producers are the ones that should be asked such questions. The actors just regurgitate the lines.

It's been viewed 167 times now, and will reach the thousands soon I guess.

It didn't fail, people just can't take tone into consideration.

I got an answer to my question: she doesn't know, but if she doesn't expect to last too long if people share my opinion that her character sucks.

Asking an actress anything about a character is not pointness: The point was that although it's not her fault, she needs to know her character stinks. Perhaps she can now complain that people don't like her character and get something changed by the writers.

Your tone was exactly the same when you called her a "half-decent actress" as the rest of what you were saying. So was the whole question a joke? If not you came off rather rude and insulting.

(Although I do agree that her character is the worst) ;)

It's been viewed 167 times now, and will reach the thousands soon I guess.

It didn't fail, people just can't take tone into consideration.

I got an answer to my question: she doesn't know, but if she doesn't expect to last too long if people share my opinion that her character sucks.

Asking an actress anything about a character is not pointness: The point was that although it's not her fault, she needs to know her character stinks. Perhaps she can now complain that people don't like her character and get something changed by the writers.

No, actually I don't think at that point in time she needed to know you think her character stinks. It really contributed nothing and you could have instead asked an interesting question and we could have discussed the answer here.

- Tom

Excellent episode... WOW...loved the ending.

Mum is the word... slingbox is a beautiful thing! Can't wait to watch it again Monday night in HD.

I didn't make or film the video, so it's not me.

I have to learn how to ask a question? Whatever! Your way would have been too boring and not worthy of the growing notoreity of this video.

As far as the insult, IT WAS A JOKE. ANd I didn't start off with an insult, I started off by getting a pop for referring to Heroes as the best new show on TV.

The joke part was so obviously a joke, and part of the point that she is not to blame for Nikki/Jessica BS, but the writers.

I know I would get a reaction for the half way decent JOKE, just not that crazy. I thought Wondercon fans were intelligent CRITICAL fans who are not simply "yes men!"

Let it go..... admit it..you blew your chance of asking a beautiful talented actress an intelligent question.

A questions means you intended to find something out. You *know* they're not going to say 'Yes this character gets killed soon'. You know it, you can't deny this.

So, that being said, what was the point of your question? Not to find something out. To influence the writers? I can't help but watch it and see you taking a jab at the actress, I can't help but to see it any other way.

There's a difference between being critical and insulting a person. The writers over at 'Lost' have been taking a beating, but notice the way people tend to confine their gripes to elements of the writing or scheduling, not so much saying that a character 'sucks' to their face.

Let it go..... admit it..you blew your chance of asking a beautiful talented actress an intelligent question.


ROTFLMAO!!!

Some pics from the fine folks up north... do not download this zip file unless you want to spoil the show. How do you do the spoiler thingy?

http://www.hostclip.com/dl/1c4498816cbf8518dae5919e07acd167

FYI: Apparently there is a trailer/teaser for Spiderman 3 during tomorrow's episode of Heroes

A questions means you intended to find something out. You *know* they're not going to say 'Yes this character gets killed soon'. You know it, you can't deny this.

So, that being said, what was the point of your question? Not to find something out. To influence the writers? I can't help but watch it and see you taking a jab at the actress, I can't help but to see it any other way.

There's a difference between being critical and insulting a person. The writers over at 'Lost' have been taking a beating, but notice the way people tend to confine their gripes to elements of the writing or scheduling, not so much saying that a character 'sucks' to their face.

You are right. I knew she couldn't or wouldn't answer the question. The point of the "question" was to let her know that the character she plays sucks.

It has nothing to do with her acting (Which is why the half way decent thing was a joke), but with Ali Larter in the house, it was my chance to let know during Wondercon that Nikki/Jessica sucks.

And many people seem to get what was going on and enjoyed it ( Now I'm referring to The video, because Wonderon is full of "yes men" idiots (aka non-critical fanboys who got mad because they incorrectly thought I was dismissing someone who was giving them tiny "chubbies").

tonight is the night people... it sets the stage for the final 5 episodes...

You are right. I knew she couldn't or wouldn't answer the question. The point of the "question" was to let her know that the character she plays sucks.

It has nothing to do with her acting (Which is why the half way decent thing was a joke), but with Ali Larter in the house, it was my chance to let know during Wondercon that Nikki/Jessica sucks.

And many people seem to get what was going on and enjoyed it ( Now I'm referring to The video, because Wonderon is full of "yes men" idiots (aka non-critical fanboys who got mad because they incorrectly thought I was dismissing someone who was giving them tiny "chubbies").

Do you really think she cares if you think her character sucks?

Nope.... she's getting paid well and that's the end of story. She can probably care less what the writers have her do.

Let it go.... you acted likely a blubbering idiot in a once in a life time situation in front of a ton of people. Nice job! If you haven't noticed, no one is patting you on the back nor are they drooling with jealousy over your video.

Now, let's get back to talking about the show.

You are right. I knew she couldn't or wouldn't answer the question. The point of the "question" was to let her know that the character she plays sucks.

It has nothing to do with her acting (Which is why the half way decent thing was a joke), but with Ali Larter in the house, it was my chance to let know during Wondercon that Nikki/Jessica sucks.

And many people seem to get what was going on and enjoyed it ( Now I'm referring to The video, because Wonderon is full of "yes men" idiots (aka non-critical fanboys who got mad because they incorrectly thought I was dismissing someone who was giving them tiny "chubbies").

I don't know what's sadder...

1) A grown man attending a comic book convention
2) Asking an intentionally insulting question of an actress just to get attention
3) Posting a video of this and bragging about it.

I seriously doubt anyone in that room cared about your opinion, least of all Larter and the producers.

That's not to say I'm a fan of her storyline...they need to resolve this split personality thing. But I don't really know what you expected to accomplish by doing what you did the way you did. You're not a lawyer (ok maybe you are), and you don't get points for "getting it on the record".

Some pics from the fine folks up north... do not download this zip file unless you want to spoil the show. How do you do the spoiler thingy?

http://www.hostclip.com/dl/1c4498816cbf8518dae5919e07acd167

Use the ["spoiler"] This would be spoiler stuff. ["/spoiler"] command (but remove the quotation marks I used).

saw the episode from the canada channel.... i have to say, there is a big surprise tonight

As hard as it is to believe, tonight's episode is even better than last week. Do not ruin it by reading about the episode broadcast last night in Canada.

If you see what happens in advance, I guarantee you will regret it.

yeah seriously.... dont see the spoiler pics...... because

tonight we see the person behind some of the problems and its someone that will surprise you