here is a great reason to love this show... :)

http://bp1.blogger.com/_hM91Q1377fg/Ri48SNrVSzI/AAAAAAAAAGw/L9AfS-GEvFQ/s400/Missy_Peregrym.jpg
It is a great reason because you can have her turn into anyone you want. Rosie Perez comes to mind. Always found her hot. Selma Hyak, it is the spanish in me making these choices. Maybe (on the TV now) Detective Emmes L&O:CI, just find her so real and natural. Not a model just someone that knows how to wear everyday clothes. Last but not least Amanda Peet. OMG, who doesn't love her? If you need a refresher check the whole nine yards again and see her total bueaty.

That's a good take. So, given that reasoning, does everyone else see her the way she intends, or just the person whose mind she's invading to get the memory?

I'm thinking everybody around her sees the same vision as the person she's "targeting". But they haven't made that explicitly clear, to my knowledge.

That's a good take. So, given that reasoning, does everyone else see her the way she intends, or just the person whose mind she's invading to get the memory?

Interesting. I imagine if she had enough control it could be everyone, hard to tell. I don't think she's influenced more then one person at at time so far.

That makes sense Will, so he has infinate powers but he has to have the need or the visual proof to be able to try it. But here is another one. I understand having the power but he does lose the power. Doesn't he? It is only a temporary fix. So why would he be able to take her powers if he is already dead. I know this is a TV show but I don't think that is good enogh. Don't get me wrong, I love the show but be a little realistic to Sci-fi fans. If she died by having a chicken leg/branch(yeah I went old school with that one) and came to life when removed, how would he be able to live just when she removed the glass? Dead is dead. You lose your life force it, it is gone, Period. But if that is my only fault then we are getting some good sci-fi here.

No, as far as we know, they last forever. Not sure what you mean by when he is dead how could he take her powers and be revived when he pulled the glass out. Peter got Claire's power from when he met her in the hallway in the school before all the crap went down, he talked to her for awhile. He has healed since then. When Claude threw him off the building he healed, this was well after he met Claire the first time, so the power stayed with him.

It is a great reason because you can have her turn into anyone you want. Rosie Perez comes to mind. Always found her hot. Selma Hyak, it is the spanish in me making these choices. Maybe (on the TV now) Detective Emmes L&O:CI, just find her so real and natural. Not a model just someone that knows how to wear everyday clothes. Last but not least Amanda Peet. OMG, who doesn't love her? If you need a refresher check the whole nine yards again and see her total bueaty.

Rosie Perez, how in the world can you stand her voice let alone that bitchy attitude. Never Mind, I see your from NY NY. Now Salma Hayek is a babe with a lustful voice.

CCourtney

Geez, I had no idea I was clearing up such a $h!tstorm of confusion when I pointed out that Clarace was not a shape-shifter, but rather someone who created illusions. :)

That's a good take. So, given that reasoning, does everyone else see her the way she intends, or just the person whose mind she's invading to get the memory?
I have assumed that she can control the ‘expanse’ of her illusions as well. Both the cops and Isaac (and good riddance to you, brotha!) saw her as the same person as far as one can tell, which makes sense if she's going to have to maintain the effect for more than one person. Conversely, if she was going to turn into something frightening enough to drive HRG crazy, then she’d either have to be able to block its effect on others, or they’d have to hustle Eric Roberts out of there lickity-split.

As for the inexplicable curiosity surrounding how HRG was able to tell she was not Claire (and honestly, how does mulling over this issue affect the story one iota? :rolleyes: ), I have been in contact with a member of the production team, who advises that when Clarace hugged HRG, he realized that her nips felt hard, something that usually never occurred in his embraces with Claire (outside his fantasy life, of course). ;)

Now is everyone satisfied? :p :rolleyes:

_______________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Why didn't Peter just saw off the top of Sylar's head using Sylar's telekinetic ability when he had the chance. Even if he and Sylar each lopped off the top of each other's head simultaneously, Peter would just need Clair to stick the top of his head back on and he would come back to life. Problem solved.

He had not discovered that he had the ability. I don't recall Claire using here healing abilities while Peter was in close proximity prior to him using the ability he had. As mentioned this is assumed to be an involuntary/reflexive ability. While Flying and Telekinesis require the conscious mind to control.

CCourtney

Rosie Perez, how in the world can you stand her voice let alone that bitchy attitude.

Go rent "White Men Can't Jump". You'll quickly figure it out. Her [Rosie Perez] voice is entirely irrelevant. ;)

looking for a hot spanish chick..... look up sofia vergara, eva mendes, rosalyna sanchez...

Go rent "White Men Can't Jump". You'll quickly figure it out. Her [Rosie Perez] voice is entirely irrelevant. ;)
Good lord! She can look like anyone in the world, and you guys are talking about Rosie Perez?!? :confused:

After seeing that pic Raven's posted, I've decided I'd just take her as she is. (Is there a drooly smiley?)

looking for a hot spanish chick..... look up sofia vergara, eva mendes, rosalyna sanchez...
Nadine Velazquez(Catalina on "Earl").

http://www.nadinevelazquez.com/
Nadine Velazquez - Home

He had not discovered that he had the ability.

CCourtney

Peter has figured out for some time that he absorbs peoples powers. Remember how he discovered he could go invisible? As a result, once Sylar tried to cut his head off telekinetically, Peter would know he can do the same. And apparently being around the person with the power makes it somehow easier for him to excercise the power-- recall how he could fly at first, but only around his brother, and could go invisible, but only when he was around the inviso guy. He had to learn how to do it without the original power holder close by. Thus it would not have been hard for him to figure out how to do it with Sylar right there in the room.

Go rent "White Men Can't Jump". You'll quickly figure it out. Her [Rosie Perez] voice is entirely irrelevant. ;)

Trust me, I've seen the movie. I can't get stand the accents of 3 out of the 5 boroughs as well as NJ. I'd rather listen to just about any Foreign language over those accents and I've been to 5 different continents and over 30 different countries.

Now if Sylar could tweak her brain such the the accent changes along with the attitude. That would make her a babe in my view.

CCourtney

Peter has figured out for some time that he absorbs peoples powers. Remember how he discovered he could go invisible? As a result, once Sylar tried to cut his head off telekinetically, Peter would know he can do the same. And apparently being around the person with the power makes it somehow easier for him to excercise the power-- recall how he could fly at first, but only around his brother, and could go invisible, but only when he was around the inviso guy. He had to learn how to do it without the original power holder close by. Thus it would not have been hard for him to figure out how to do it with Sylar right there in the room.

You had said

Why didn't Peter just saw off the top of Sylar's head using Sylar's telekinetic ability when he had the chance. Even if he and Sylar each lopped off the top of each other's head simultaneously, Peter would just need Clair to stick the top of his head back on and he would come back to life. Problem solved.

My point was that yes, he had absorbed the power before, when he had first met Sylar. But he wasn't really aware of the telekinetic ability.

Now, at the point his head starts to get cut open, yes he would have realized it, but he had not learned how to control it at that time. Which is the point I raised when I said the disadvantage was that Peter had was not that he didn't have at least as many abilities as Sylar but in fact more, but that he has abilities that he has either not learned how to use or perfected.

CCourtney

I'm thinking everybody around her sees the same vision as the person she's "targeting". But they haven't made that explicitly clear, to my knowledge.
See, here's where I think it gets interesting. If everyone is seeing just one person's recollection of the person she's projecting herself to be, then one must assume she'd be easy to spot as a fake to others that know the projected person. What I mean by this is that, to Micah, she certainly would come across differently than she would with his father, as they both have differing viewpoints of her, influenced by their own seperate feelings about her. If she's projecting the image from Micah's mind, she might appear as motherly, whereas someone else might envision her as evil, sexy, disfunctional, etc.

If she is able to independently and simultaniously project multiple images of everyone's perspectives, then she's one powerful mutant. Hopefully, we'll see more and it will be cleared up, as her illusion power is fascinating to me.

None of this necessarily detracts or adds to the show in any way...it's just something I like to think about and discuss for the sake of fun. :)

If she is able to independently and simultaniously project multiple images of everyone's perspectives, then she's one powerful mutant. Hopefully, we'll see more and it will be cleared up, as her illusion power is fascinating to me.

This is definitely where it gets interesting as we are now left to determine, or wait for it to be revealed what the true extent of her power is. Whether it is image projection or illusions. The line she said about "making him want to rip his eyes out" for what she could make him see implies the power of illusions. Yet we all see instances where she has multiple people see the same image of another person (Simone,Nikki-Jessica). Interesting indeed.

This is definitely where it gets interesting as we are now left to determine, or wait for it to be revealed what the true extent of her power is. Whether it is image projection or illusions. The line she said about "making him want to rip his eyes out" for what she could make him see implies the power of illusions. Yet we all see instances where she has multiple people see the same image of another person (Simone,Nikki-Jessica). Interesting indeed.


I think she is going to get killed off rather quickly. I'd rather see her go than one of the other well-established characters... Perhaps in a Captain Kirk/Undiscovered Country way...

This is definitely where it gets interesting as we are now left to determine, or wait for it to be revealed what the true extent of her power is. Whether it is image projection or illusions. The line she said about "making him want to rip his eyes out" for what she could make him see implies the power of illusions. Yet we all see instances where she has multiple people see the same image of another person (Simone,Nikki-Jessica). Interesting indeed.
I think any distinction being drawn here between "image projection" and "illusion" is primarily artificial. The net effect of either is generally identical for all practical purposes, despite attempts to differentiate the two.

_____________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

I think she is going to get killed off rather quickly. I'd rather see her go than one of the other well-established characters... Perhaps in a Captain Kirk/Undiscovered Country way...Nah, I think Jessica will take her out in the old saw-the-magician's-assistant-in-half, kinda way.

I think any distinction being drawn here between "image projection" and "illusion" is primarily artificial. The net effect of either is generally identical for all practical purposes, despite attempts to differentiate the two.
Not at all identical to me. Projecting an "image" means everyone might see the image differently. Creating an illusion for our Heroic villain, ala a magician, might mean everyone sees the same illusion and resulting effect, thus exposing the trick, as everyone's "image" of that person is different. One is the creation of what you think the audience wants to see, while the other is an invasion of the mind, and hence, a more realistic representation of "the truth" or the closest version of what the intended person wants to see.

Not at all identical to me. Projecting an "image" means everyone might see the image differently. Creating an illusion for our Heroic villain, ala a magician, might mean everyone sees the same illusion and resulting effect, thus exposing the trick, as everyone's "image" of that person is different. One is the creation of what you think the audience wants to see, while the other is an invasion of the mind, and hence, a more realistic representation of "the truth" or the closest version of what the intended person wants to see.
Sorry, but as far as I can tell, you're interjecting characteristics of subjectivity and objectivity to the terms "image" and "illusion", which don't seem to be supported by the definitions of either term. But however you try to slice it, in each instance, you would be presenting a misleading reproduction of the individual person or object, no matter how your viewer(s) chose to interpret it.


________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Does anyone else think Linderman will hold his 'healing' ability over Nathan's head to get him to do what he wants? Let's not forget Nathan's wife was paralyzed in the car accident, and I'm sure he'd do whatever Linderman wanted if he promised he could make her walk again.

Does anyone else think Linderman will hold his 'healing' ability over Nathan's head to get him to do what he wants? Let's not forget Nathan's wife was paralyzed in the car accident, and I'm sure he'd do whatever Linderman wanted if he promised he could make her walk again.
Not so sure that Nathan will appreciate the irony, as it was Lindeman's thugs who rear-ended Petrelli's vehicle and caused it to crash. (Not that Nathan's manifestation of flying helped the situation, either).

______________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Sorry, but as far as I can tell, you're interjecting characteristics of subjectivity and objectivity to the terms "image" and "illusion", which don't seem to be supported by the definitions of either term. But however you try to slice it, in each instance, you would be presenting a misleading reproduction of the individual person or object, no matter how your viewer(s) chose to interpret it.

I see your point. Your'e the type that when your team scores, you could care less how they did it. It's over, done, doesn't matter. Me, I like to know if it was accomplished either; by skill or heart, on offensive or defense, quickly or with much effort, by starters or scrubs, etc. To me, knowing the details in which something is accomplished leads to greater understanding and has a great chance of foretelling what's to come. To each his own.


spyder

Peter has used his healing abilities many times when Claire wasn't around.

1. When Peter first falls in Texas with Sylar, he dies. But since he had bumped into Claire in the hallway, he starts to heal before she gets there. Also, after she leaves, his foot is all twisted still. He puts it back in place and presumably it heals.

2. When Claude (inviso guy) throws him off the roof, he falls onto the cab. He probably died. But he revives and heals. One inconsistency with my theory is that he tells Claude that he was thinking about Claire.

3. When Sylar trims Peters forehead, it heals rather quickly. Looks involuntary to me.

4. When the glass is pulled out of his head. Peter undies and heals.

There may be more, but his healing seems to be an involuntary action.

This is my take on the whole Peter/Clair thing: When Peter concentrates, he can call any power in his arsenal to use, but he automatically takes on the abilities of others when in range--this is a natural function of his genetic makeup--it doesn't "turn-off" unless he consciously does so. Thus even in death, I think his genetic makeup is still absorbing powers, there's just no one at home to use them (brain dead). This is true with Claire also--it's involuntary but can be interrupted with a severe brain injury--pull the stick out and her genetics go to work fixing the problem. Peter died when he fell from ledge, but his genetics grabbed Claire's ability when she got close enough to him and he healed--he couldn't do it himself because he didn't know how to recall her power or even that she had a power at that time--when he fought Sylar, you saw the concentration in his eyes and he healed-- then reached into his bag of tricks and gave Sylar a taste of his own medicine--this was all done consciously. When the glass hit him, it killed him, he looked dead, but when they brought him into the house his eyes turned white, as though his genetic ability was involuntarily trying to repair him because Claire was in range, but the glass had to be removed in order for the ability to finish the job--same with her "stick" problem.

I don't know how long their bodies' ability lasts without brain activity, I'm guessing there's a point of no return--maybe a day or something--but if Mohinder had removed the glass in his apartment, Peter would have remained dead until he brought him to the house. That's assuming Peter wasn't trying to access Claire's power the moment before going unconscious/dying.

This is my take on the whole Peter/Clair thing: When Peter concentrates, he can call any power in his arsenal to use, but he automatically takes on the abilities of others when in range--this is a natural function of his genetic makeup--it doesn't "turn-off" unless he consciously does so. Thus even in death, I think his genetic makeup is still absorbing powers, there's just no one at home to use them (brain dead). This is true with Claire also--it's involuntary but can be interrupted with a severe brain injury--pull the stick out and her genetics go to work fixing the problem. Peter died when he fell from ledge, but his genetics grabbed Claire's ability when she got close enough to him and he healed--he couldn't do it himself because he didn't know how to recall her power or even that she had a power at that time--when he fought Sylar, you saw the concentration in his eyes and he healed-- then reached into his bag of tricks and gave Sylar a taste of his own medicine--this was all done consciously. When the glass hit him, it killed him, he looked dead, but when they brought him into the house his eyes turned white, as though his genetic ability was involuntarily trying to repair him because Claire was in range, but the glass had to be removed in order for the ability to finish the job--same with her "stick" problem.

I don't know how long their bodies' ability lasts without brain activity, I'm guessing there's a point of no return--maybe a day or something--but if Mohinder had removed the glass in his apartment, Peter would have remained dead until he brought him to the house. That's assuming Peter wasn't trying to access Claire's power the moment before going unconscious/dying.

The power is listed as spontanous regeneration. I think that explains why it heals automatically without needing to concentrate and covers the part about when the stick/glass is removed she/he heals automatically. Peter got the healing power from Claire before he fell, when he met her in the hallway. Since it is spontanous, the healing started as soon as it could. Just like when Claire had a branch in her brain, it prevented her power from being able to use her power until it was removed.

Nadine Velazquez(Catalina on "Earl").

http://www.nadinevelazquez.com/
Nadine Velazquez - Home
I can't believe I left her off my list, I watch that show every week.
As for Rosie, she is a 5" 1" goddess. Perfect for me at 5"3"


I live in NYC so the voice is always heard from those Nappy headed, just kidding! I won't say it. I will say the new one instead. It is the voice of those pigeon heads. I am just use to it. And duct tape fixes everything

Peter DOES have all of Sylar's powers already. See a few posts up on all the powers (that we know of) that Peter has compared to Sylar.

Yes, if Peter walks down the street and passes someone with a super power he would gain that too. However, he would never know he has it unless he saw someone doing something with it because he has to recall how he felt at that moment, sort of focusing on the power to call it forth, so he couldn't do that if he doesn't know if he has it.
I understand that, but my trouble with him gaining/possessing all these powers is with the continuity. He was saved in the early episodes with his brother flying when he jumped off the building. But when he was trying by himself to fly he couldn't. Why didn't it come naturally like him healing himself after the glass was removed? Believe me, I know this is fiction but shouldn't they have continuity with the program or did I miss something.

I understand that, but my trouble with him gaining/possessing all these powers is with the continuity. He was saved in the early episodes with his brother flying when he jumped off the building. But when he was trying by himself to fly he couldn't. Why didn't it come naturally like him healing himself after the glass was removed? Believe me, I know this is fiction but shouldn't they have continuity with the program or did I miss something.

Because the healing power is spontanous regeneration. I think they are using that to mean he doesn't have to focus on them.

But like he learned from the invisible guy, the other powers, he has to focus on how he felt when he was around them to do the power. That is what he learned in his lessons. Since then he has show much greater control on calling forth his powers. As for trying to fly and couldn't, he didn't know at that time he had to call forth his powers by focusing on how he felt, he was just falling off and assuming he would fly.

Because the healing power is spontanous regeneration. I think they are using that to mean he doesn't have to focus on them.

But like he learned from the invisible guy, the other powers, he has to focus on how he felt when he was around them to do the power. That is what he learned in his lessons. Since then he has show much greater control on calling forth his powers. As for trying to fly and couldn't, he didn't know at that time he had to call forth his powers by focusing on how he felt, he was just falling off and assuming he would fly.Every time I think about a neophyte flyer, I can't help but be reminded of "The Greatest American Hero" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081871/).

YMMV

ok, After my 4 hr marathon last night I am all caught up for tonights episode which basically will ruin the next five years for us because we will now know who will keep showing up for the next 5 years. Unless they lie to us and make the full season only 4 weeks like this season is progressing.

Anyway here is my lessons:
1)She is a shape shifter. HRG fell for her being his wife and he hugged her so it is safe to assume he thought for a few seconds that it was Claire until he remembered where he was, then he realized She was in hiding.

2)Continuity issue: The HRG was suppose to get rid of Invisible man., the flashback showed that he did. Why did he make it seem that the haitian was suppose to get rid of him when they found the invisible guy.

3)Linderman has powers, does mommy petrelli have powers also? Is there any one out there that thinks Peter and Nathan are Linderman's kids. Just a thought.

4)Now we all know that a foreign object in the brain kills, but how far do you have to go. We have already seen glass and branch/chicken foot. But claire said in an earlier episode that she went through a shredder. How far? If her brain was crushed she wouldn't survive. What about a gun to the head. It would go straight through or stay in there. Would she only survive if it goes through.

5)Hiro & Ando are months into the future, Way after the blast. I say this because they were already building 2 high rise buildings. Why would he be looking for Isaac? He already knew he was dead the day of the blast. I am a anal about continuity, I love this story but sometimes a writer needs to go back and read what they wrote first and continue from there.

6) Nikki/ Jessica, what can I say but they have to go. They have Nikki looking like a real punk. Totally different then the way she was in the beginning of the season.

7)I guess it is safe to say HRG has no power but love for his family. Now that they ate at the same diner that Charlie was at, will they know that Sylar was there or just leave to NYC.

8)How far up the food chain is Linderman? Does he own the company or is there someone higher then he is? We will see tonight that NY does go boom, but what will the repercussions when the Heroes stop the bomb(Peter/Ted)?


Other thoughts have been answer by reading the input you guys post here. Thank you for that. I think this episode will be great but I am concerned with the time line that will go out of wack once the Heroes start on the way to prevent the bomb(Peter or Ted) from exploding. Only 4 episodes left and I am all ready trying to make May end faster. I want to see what the cliffhanger is going to be and I still have 4 weeks left or 3 if the finale is 2 hrs.

Every time I think about a neophyte flyer, I can't help but be reminded of "The Greatest American Hero" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081871/).

YMMV
Yeah, that is good, but Peter Made it look very easy when he threw his buddy off the roof and caught him and went straight up to make HRG & Faitian know the way he mastered his powers.


Ding Dong, DING DONG at the tone it will be 6 hrs EST to show time. I can't wait!!!!

5)Hiro & Ando are months into the future, Way after the blast. I say this because they were already building 2 high rise buildings. Why would he be looking for Isaac? He already knew he was dead the day of the blast. I am a anal about continuity, I love this story but sometimes a writer needs to go back and read what they wrote first and continue from there.

They are 5 years in the future.

here is a great reason to love this show... :)

http://bp1.blogger.com/_hM91Q1377fg/Ri48SNrVSzI/AAAAAAAAAGw/L9AfS-GEvFQ/s400/Missy_Peregrym.jpg

What's the actress's name again?

1)She is a shape shifter. HRG fell for her being his wife and he hugged her so it is safe to assume he thought for a few seconds that it was Claire until he remembered where he was, then he realized She was in hiding.
I think it was more that HRG felt that something wasn't right, rather than remembering that Claire was in hiding.


2)Continuity issue: The HRG was suppose to get rid of Invisible man., the flashback showed that he did. Why did he make it seem that the haitian was suppose to get rid of him when they found the invisible guy.I don't think it was a continuity error. When HRG shoots Claude at the bridge (in B&W), he assumes/hopes that Claude is dead. Then back in the present, Issac says that in his paintings, Peter is half invisible. HRG then realizes that Claude is still alive and that Peter has met up him. That's why HRG/Haitian try to take Claude out.

3)Linderman has powers, does mommy petrelli have powers also? Is there any one out there that thinks Peter and Nathan are Linderman's kids. Just a thought. In the Graphic Novels (on nbc.com), you see that Linderman is not the father. There's a scene where Linderman knocks on the Petrelli's home door. Inside, there's a boy playing with an airplane (presumably Nathan). Very unlikely that Linderman is father to either of the Petrelli boys.

4)Now we all know that a foreign object in the brain kills, but how far do you have to go. We have already seen glass and branch/chicken foot. But claire said in an earlier episode that she went through a shredder. How far? If her brain was crushed she wouldn't survive. What about a gun to the head. It would go straight through or stay in there. Would she only survive if it goes through. I think the way Claire/Peter's healing power works is that the brain needs to be active to begin the healing process. The healing process itself is involuntary/reflexive, but the brain needs to be functioning (kinda like breathing). If something is stuck in the brain, then the healing will be on pause.

As for a bullet through the head, I would think that this would not be a problem. If the bullet was stuck, however, ...

5)Hiro & Ando are months into the future, Way after the blast. I say this because they were already building 2 high rise buildings. Why would he be looking for Isaac? He already knew he was dead the day of the blast. I am a anal about continuity, I love this story but sometimes a writer needs to go back and read what they wrote first and continue from there.Hiro and Ando are five years into the future.

8)How far up the food chain is Linderman? Does he own the company or is there someone higher then he is? We will see tonight that NY does go boom, but what will the repercussions when the Heroes stop the bomb(Peter/Ted)?It's still unclear as to who the boss of the "Company" is. Is it Linderman? Is it Mr. Nakamura? As for the bomb, if you read the Graphic Novels, there are some tidbits in the latest one. I won't spoil it for you.

ft

But claire said in an earlier episode that she went through a shredder. How far? If her brain was crushed she wouldn't survive.If you read the first two pages of this thread, it's readily explained what actually happened to Claire in her 'shredder' incident.

They are 5 years in the future.
then that creates even more problems, why wouldd he be asking for someone he knew was dead before the blast? I guess maybe it will be answered toniight, but I think they made a booboo!

if it is five years in the future, it is the same as now. The government still doesn't know how to rebuild after a tragedy. Five years latter and only construction on 2 buildings!!! What a shame. As a NYer we need to build already!!!

then that creates even more problems, why wouldd he be asking for someone he knew was dead before the blast? I guess maybe it will be answered toniight, but I think they made a booboo!
No boo boo. It is explained in the Graphic Novel, but if you don't want tonight's episode to be spoiled, stay away. I'm guessing it will be explained tonight, but who knows?

ft

If you read the first two pages of this thread, it's readily explained what actually happened to Claire in her 'shredder' incident.
Really, I didn't read that at all or maybe it is my memory slipping. I have been reading since the start. 118 pages , to much to remember but, thanx I will look that one up.

No boo boo. It is explained in the Graphic Novel, but if you don't want tonight's episode to be spoiled, stay away. I'm guessing it will be explained tonight, but who knows?

ft
I am way behind the graphic novels, I actually have them all printed in a binder but I am only up to the ones that were given during season 1 part one. I have a lot to ctah up on.
But my problem about this is not everyone reads the novels. I thought all revelations are to be broadcast on TV. Unless like you say it will be shown in tonights episode. Just hold on fun the fun ride!

Really, I didn't read that at all or maybe it is my memory slipping. I have been reading since the start. 118 pages , to much to remember but, thanx I will look that one up.
It's actually on the third page.

hiro thinks the painter guy might be alive in the future because he is under the impression that sylar was captured (i don't remember why but he said it during the show last week). so he thinks oh, if sylar was captured then maybe he didn't end up killing painter guy after all.

hiro thinks the painter guy might be alive in the future because he is under the impression that sylar was captured (i don't remember why but he said it during the show last week). so he thinks oh, if sylar was captured then maybe he didn't end up killing painter guy after all.

"Painter Guy" = Isaac Mendez. Just trying to help.

What's the actress's name again?
IMDB is your friend. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0813715/fullcredits#cast) But with that cast list, it takes a while to figure out. The actress is Missy Peregrym.

"Painter Guy" = Isaac Mendez. Just trying to help.
Hey, wasn't that guy dating 'Possibly Powerless Chick' with the dying daddy at one point, but then she got killed (maybe.....with this group, you just can't be sure).

_______________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Hey, wasn't that guy dating 'Possibly Powerless Chick' with the dying daddy at one point, but then she got killed (maybe.....with this group, you just can't be sure).


"Possibly Powerless Chick" aka "Possibly Dead Chick" = Simone Deveaux

She was/is quite the playa', servicing both Isaac and Peter.

From Imdb:

Hayden Panettiere:

"One Life to Live" (1968) TV Series .... Sarah Victoria 'Flash' Roberts #3 (unknown episodes, 1994-1997)

I had no idea she was that old! You can all stop feeling so pervy when thinking about her. ;)

Funny.

However, Hayden Leslie Panettiere was born on 21st August 1989 in Palisades, New York, so you still need to tread lightly.

From Imdb:

Hayden Panettiere:

"One Life to Live" (1968) TV Series .... Sarah Victoria 'Flash' Roberts #3 (unknown episodes, 1994-1997)

I had no idea she was that old! You can all stop feeling so pervy when thinking about her. ;)
IMDB lists her birth date as August 21, 1989. She is 17 years old, so keep the pervy feeling. :eek: She does have a amazingly long imdb entry for someone who is not even 18 yet, but she has obviously been a very busy child actor. Based on her work on Heroes, I say she has got the chance for a long career as an adult actor as well.

"Possibly Powerless Chick" aka "Possibly Dead Chick" = Simone Deveaux

She was/is quite the playa', servicing both Isaac and Peter.
Hold it. I think we've got the beginnings of a trendy new party game here. We'll call it Six Degrees of Peter Petrelli.

Sniff. Sniff. Smells like money. ;)

__________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

"Possibly Powerless Chick" aka "Possibly Dead Chick" = Simone DeveauxAnd why do you say possibly dead? Maybe it's nothing (I've mentioned this before), but Peter looked intently on her after Isaac shot her. He told Ike she was already dead.....and for a minute there, I thought he was gonna resurrect her or something. Maybe he absorbed her essence? *shrugs*

And why do you say possibly dead? Maybe it's nothing (I've mentioned this before), but Peter looked intently on her after Isaac shot her. He told Ike she was already dead.....and for a minute there, I thought he was gonna resurrect her or something. Maybe he absorbed her essence? *shrugs*

her power was sultry lips. peter may need that power to woo sylar over to the good guys.

wow........

45 mins into the show... OMG..... :D

45 mins into the show... OMG..... :D
Wow is right. We will have to watch the entire season several times on DVD or HD-DVD/BR with a guidebook just to keep the plot, characters, and their powers straight...

OMG hell yeah. Got to admit I did not see that coming. Great episode so far.

i think i shitted myself just now.... what a great freakin show...

best show on television period. thats how it should be done. other networks and tv writers need to take notice. 24 can kiss my.....

Fackkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

Stupid F**KING Dvr Cut Off The Ending Arggggggggggg

F U Nbc

I think I missed like 30 seconds

WOW that was an amazing episode....A-MA-ZING

Just buffered my future recordings by 4 minutes...Stupid NBC

WOW. Just wow. Peter as Neo; freakin' awesome. They certainly took a page from the X-men, but that's OK. Was it just me, or was the ground-zero scene was kinda eerie. And you can tell by Sylar's new abilities who he killed exactly. But the redeeming factor is, this future timeline can be changed. Hopefully.




I think Sylar will kill the girl that can impersonate people and he steals her power, then impersonates Nathan after he gets elected. The two different versions of the painting represents what each painter sees. The one by Isaac shows it as Nathan since that's what he visualizes, the one by Sylar shows that it's actually Sylar.Great call. This frakkin' show just keeps gettting better and better, just like BSG. Wow.

so.....as soon as future Hiro learned that the cheerleader survived why didn't he directly go back and kill Sylar himself at that point when he failed before instead of using the convoluted method of getting past Hiro back and waiting until the opportunity presented itself?

so.....as soon as future Hiro learned that the cheerleader survived why didn't he directly go back and kill Sylar himself at that point when he failed before instead of using the convoluted method of getting past Hiro back and waiting until the opportunity presented itself?

Because it's a TV show and what would be the fun in that?

And, this episode proves that it really was Peter that blew up New York.

If it was Sylar, Hiro would've killed him. But it was Peter that he stabbed, who regenerated.

"Fackkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

Stupid F**KING Dvr Cut Off The Ending Arggggggggggg"

Luckily my caps are flawless from beginning to end.

Excellent episode.
I addicted after only 3 episodes.
I gotta go back and watch from the pilot this weekend.

A very addictive show indeed.

Because it's a TV show and what would be the fun in that?

having huge holes like that ruins this kind of show for a lot of people.

It looks like Molly Walker, the girl that Parkman found hiding in the closet earlier this season, will be playing a big role in the fight against Sylar.

We also now have confirmation that Hiro can change events in the past, since Claire originally did die. The only question now is, have Isaac's paintings ever been wrong? Or will Sylar still become president.

I really can't wait for this show to come out on DVD. It will be the perfect show to marathon over a long weekend and see all of the early season hints of what was coming. Unlike Lost, I really feel that Heroes does indeed plan everything for the season out in advance. Lately, Lost has been giving me the feeling of making it up a few episodes at a time.

EDIT: One other question. Why didn't Peter tell Hiro the truth about the explosion? Maybe he would have been able to either talk to past Peter, or at least take out Nuclear Guy in the past, instead of just focusing on killing Sylar.

Although I do think that killing Sylar would avoid the Peter/Sylar battle that I sitll think is responsible for the explosion.

having huge holes like that ruins this kind of show for a lot of people.


Only the ones who can't realize that it's a TV show, and the idea that if they just go back in time totally destroys the point of the story to begin with.

i know they need to stop sylar. but what about peter, he's the one that blew nyc up.

lol, my brother just told me this after he read clevername's posts/response to me..

I bring forth Ben Aflecks quote from the Jay and Silent Bob movie, "The internet is a place where people can come together to b**** about movies and actors then claim they can't stand but can't stop talking about, and to share pornography."

lol....

i had a hard on when sylar and peter were about to fight.....

best show on tv period!!!!

I'm feeling there is going to be an epic battle at the end. They've given us teasers so far, never actually showing the viewer what a 'hero fight' looks like, but just enough for us to go 'hot damn, here we go!'

Also, I still want to know what sets Peter off...

i kind of figured what sylar was painting all along....

lol, my brother just told me this after he read clevername's posts/response to me..

I bring forth Ben Aflecks quote from the Jay and Silent Bob movie, "The internet is a place where people can come together to b**** about movies and actors then claim they can't stand but can't stop talking about, and to share pornography."

lol....

I'm sure I'm the only one in this 3560 post thread who expects some logic in an ongoing story.

Are you saying the only people who can post in huge discussions about a show like this are the people who just shrug off silliness as "it's a TV show"? And it's cool to take potshots at people who have criticisms?

Not everyone who finds fault in things are giant fanbitches, you know. In fact, I enjoyed the episode tonight (and the season so far). Things like this just go to show that it's pointless to discuss much about what might happen on this show since the writers aren't too worried about gaping plot holes.

I'm sure I'm the only one in this 3560 post thread who expects some logic in an ongoing story.

Are you saying the only people who can post in huge discussions about a show like this are the people who just shrug off silliness as "it's a TV show"? And it's cool to take potshots at people who have criticisms?

Not everyone who finds fault in things are giant fanbitches, you know. In fact, I enjoyed the episode tonight (and the season so far). Things like this just go to show that it's pointless to discuss much about what might happen on this show since the writers aren't too worried about gaping plot holes.

For one, i'm taking a potshot at this whole thread, me included.

All of these threads on AVS are about all of us moaning and groaning about nitpicky little things.

But, i still don't think your idea of a 'huge hole' in the story is as serious as you think. Sylar doesn't destroy new york. Peter does. But, the only person that knows that is Future peter and future sylar at this point.

Killing sylar doesn't stop the bomb at all, it just kills off an immensely interesting character and story arch. Why on earth would the writers want that? It doesn't make sense. In the 'real world' they'd probably just go back in time and keep sylar from being conceived...but, what fun is that for the show? Do you really want them to just knock him off that easily? I'd be very disappointed if that was the end of Sylar.

I can shrug off small nitpicky instances when a show entertains me as much as Heroes does. I just think it's kind of silly to question the writers and their direction for this show. Unlike others, it seems like they know what they're doing. But, then again...Lost seemed that way in the first season as well.

And, I don't think you're a giant 'fanbitch' (cool word). Your first comment just made me go 'come on...'

for all future Hiro knows, killing Sylar stops the explosion.

for all we the viewers know, killing Sylar prevents the Sylar/Peter fight that leads to Peter blowing up (speculating a bit there, as the circumstances of why Peter blows up aren't entirely clear at this point).

Of course the writers don't want to kill off Sylar at this point. All I'm saying is they should be thinking of these things if they're going to include time travel so prominently in their storylines. It doesn't make much sense for future Hiro to not go back and correct the wrong.

More time travel stuff...in the future we saw tonight Claire is alive and hidden. That means Sylar didn't kill her to get her power. So, are we to assume that Sylar's wounds that Hiro originally inflicted weren't severe enough to actually kill him? If not, how is he still alive in the future we saw tonight?

It would seem from the events they've laid out for us that future Claire and future Sylar can't exist at the same time unless Sylar would've survived Hiro's attack to begin with or got the healing power from somewhere else.

Calling it a night. Maybe it will make more sense in the morning.

so.....as soon as future Hiro learned that the cheerleader survived why didn't he directly go back and kill Sylar himself at that point when he failed before instead of using the convoluted method of getting past Hiro back and waiting until the opportunity presented itself?

Because future Hiro would have to exist outside of time to be able to go back in time and completely alter the timeline without himself disappearing/changing and thus being unable/unaware to go back in time and alter it. It's like going back in time to kill your grandfather. It's a paradox.

Anyway, there was no reason for him to rush back in time before Parkman burst through the door. And if he had, and Parkman had shot Hiro (thinking him Future Hiro), then he would've ceased to exist. While future Hiro can travel back and forth through time trying to fix things, he no longer exists the minute normal Hiro is dead.

They've done a fairly good job with the time travel business as far as I can tell. After watching Deja Vu (which I thought mostly sucked), they seem to have achieved a fairly sophisticated balance between plausible time travel without completely unraveling/convoluting the story.

At the end of the day, Hiro's a comic book geek and likely "in tune" to the sensitivities of time travel. He's not going to do it willy nilly.

A genuine critique might be: why didn't Peter ever go back in time to fix his own screw ups? He's got Hiro's power, and he's clearly the most developed in the use of his powers except perhaps for Sylar. But I think they addressed this in his conversations with Nikki.

As far as future Claire and future Sylar co-existing, I think the previews for the final three episodes make it pretty clear that Hiro's stab-fest will be unsuccesful.

God, I hate time travel paradoxes. Hopefully future Hero will not be bringing the sceret of Transparent Aluminum back to the past.

:p

That was a great episode.

I too was a little confused about Hiro's report on Sylar's healing, especially after it became obvious Claire was still alive. Yet elder Hiro also seemed pretty sure Claire had died in the original timeline.

I hope the writers have a plan that fits all the pieces together in the end.

God, I hate time travel paradoxes. Hopefully future Hero will not be bringing the sceret of Transparent Aluminum back to the past.

:p

But without it, they wouldn't be able to transport the whales that are the only thing capable of preventing New York from being destroyed.

Fackkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

Stupid F**KING Dvr Cut Off The Ending Arggggggggggg

F U NbcNBC almost always runs 30-60 seconds over so it has a few extra ad spots. Set your DVR to pad Heroes an extra minute and you won't have to worry about missing the endings. Some DVRs, like the FiOS Motorola DVR, pad every recording by default, when a tuner is available.

so.....as soon as future Hiro learned that the cheerleader survived why didn't he directly go back and kill Sylar himself at that point when he failed before instead of using the convoluted method of getting past Hiro back and waiting until the opportunity presented itself?It would appear that future-Hiro could no longer perform under pressure; much like past-Hiro's dilemma. Ando seems to be the key as he was separated from them both. Save Ando, save the world?




More time travel stuff...in the future we saw tonight Claire is alive and hidden. That means Sylar didn't kill her to get her power.True, he didn't catch her in the past, but we did see future-Sylar kill future Claire in this particular timeline Claire is especially important, as if Sylar ever gets to her, he'll be virtually indestructable. Although, Peter can match him talent for talent.

I can shrug off small nitpicky instances when a show entertains me as much as Heroes does. I just think it's kind of silly to question the writers and their direction for this show. Unlike others, it seems like they know what they're doing. But, then again...Lost seemed that way in the first season as well.


Same here. My level of criticism is directly proportional to the level of self-importance. Heroes is a blast and massively fun and exciting so I let the majority of stuff stuff slide even that which doesn't flow logical. I don't afford that same luxury to Lost because it's a show that takes itself far too seriously and tries too hard to be "clever" these days.

Tonight was a great show that has got me excited for the season finale.

Because future Hiro would have to exist outside of time to be able to go back in time and completely alter the timeline without himself disappearing/changing and thus being unable/unaware to go back in time and alter it. It's like going back in time to kill your grandfather. It's a paradox.


The paradox only applies to a single timeline theory. Future Hiro could go back in time and alter events but if he jumped forward he would be in a different timeline to the one he left. It would be influenced by his actions in the past and it would also mean he already exists in that time.

Future Hiro could have gone back and killed Sylar but the five years of history he remembered would never have happened and two Hiro's would exist. The Hiro from that timeline and the Hiro from the future who jumped in to create it. If future Hiro is aware of that, then the noble gesture would be to change the history for everyone else. He has already lived it so it would be pointless for him to interfere directly. It would just give past Hiro a bit of a problem having his future self hanging around.

So you could go back and kill your grandfather, but if you jumped to the point you left for the past it would not be the world you remembered. You would never have existed in history because it was never your timeline to begin with. It just means you are stuck in an unfamiliar world.

More time travel stuff...in the future we saw tonight Claire is alive and hidden. That means Sylar didn't kill her to get her power. So, are we to assume that Sylar's wounds that Hiro originally inflicted weren't severe enough to actually kill him? If not, how is he still alive in the future we saw tonight?


I'm guessing the person who got stabbed was also the one with a big slash across his face.

Sylar absorbed the illusion power, so he could have created the image that Peter was Sylar and Hiro attacked him instead.

Tonight's show kicked butt!

I say put the season finale up against AI!

Did he even stab Sylar [in the future]? Picture could've been Peter, looked vaguely like him at least.

I'm guessing the person who got stabbed was also the one with a big slash across his face.

Sylar absorbed the illusion power, so he could have created the image that Peter was Sylar and Hiro attacked him instead.
I don't believe he'd be suprised then going back in time to see Peter well ahead of the cheerleader's "death" without a scar. We are to assume Hiro has always known Peter with a scar since first meeting him in the alternate timeline.

My assumption is that Sylar has never needed to kill anybody from the beginning just like Peter. It's just that Sylar is completely out of control and homicidal. Sylar skills also never seem to completely match those he's killed, unlike Peter's (Isaac's ability proves this) Sylar's bound with new abilities through death is the easy but also the least effect way of gaining new super powers. If anybody teaches Sylar (or maybe since Sylar killed the fast learning waitress and met Peter who absorbs powers without killing...he might learn how to control powers with people he came in contact with) he would be exactly like Peter.

Also "Save the Cheerleader" was merely Hiro's guess as to how to save the World, and unknown to him she still survived. We also don't know if Hiro saving the city and especially Ando actually means he'll be killing Sylar. Yes we saw a panel with Hiro stabbing Sylar, that doesn't mean he dies due to the blow. We know from Isaac that they stop Sylar in this timeline in reality. Not kill him.

Sylar skills also never seem to completely match those he's killed, unlike Peter's (Isaac's ability proves this)

How come Peter is not always more powerful than Sylar then (after all, he gets near Sylar and should be able to absorb his powers)?

That was one of the best, if not the best episode to date. That was very cool to see what has happened. I liked seeing that Parkman's ability has grown. Being able to only read current thoughts was kinda lame. Now at least he can go back into someone's memory.

So, over 5 years we now know that Sylar has knocked off Nathan, D.L., Ted Sprague, and that hot morphing chick who wore the school girl mini skirts. Did I miss anyone?

Okay, now comes the confusion part.

Confusion #1: Why does Peter have a scar? If he can regenerate, wouldn't that have healed?
I kinda have a theory as to why, but I may be wrong. I'm thinking that the regeneration ability has evolved to where he can control how it works, so maybe he chose to keep the scar because of the grief from killing all those people.

Confusion #2: Wouldn't the bomb still go off even if Hiro kills Sylar? We know it's Peter that causes it, so aside from getting rid of a killer, what will that solve?

Confusion #3: Was Nathan ever President, or has Sylar assumed his form all this time?

Confusion #4: Does anyone know that Sylar is pretending to be Nathan? I found it strange that Parkman didn't seem to notice that "Nathan" just reached through a door and pulled Peter out.

Confusion #2: Wouldn't the bomb still go off even if Hiro kills Sylar? We know it's Peter that causes it, so aside from getting rid of a killer, what will that solve?


How do you know that's Sylar in that picture?

How do you know that's Sylar in that picture?

Because Mohinder told us so and I blindly believe everything I'm told on TV. :p

God, I hate time travel paradoxes. Hopefully future Hero will not be bringing the sceret of Transparent Aluminum back to the past.

How do we know he didn't invent the thing? ;)

My assumption is that Sylar has never needed to kill anybody from the beginning just like Peter. It's just that Sylar is completely out of control and homicidal.
No, Sylar's power is that he can see how things work. (This was shown earlier in the season when Mohinder's Dad was testing Sylar.) He acquires others' powers by examining his victim's brain (or the DNA in it) and figuring out what gives them their power.

Peter, completely to the contrary, is a sponge who can soak-up others' powers by his mere proximity to them.

~Dan

Great episode ... but I had to catch the last minute or so from the western feed. When I recorded the episode from NBC Detroit the recording ended before the episode, because I did not know it ran 1+ minutes beyond 60. This seems this is becoming more and more the case with several series.

My damn DVR cut the last minute off. Can anyone fill me in on what happened? Thanks.

Damn. Great episode.

Don't get too hung up on the time travel stuff. It's not real, trying to figure out the paradoxes will only give you a headache, and it's much more fun if you just go along with it.

My damn DVR cut the last minute off. Can anyone fill me in on what happened? Thanks.

WARNING ... IF YOU HAVE NOT YET WATCHED THIS EPISODE DO NOT READ THIS!

I have learned that I have to add at least 2 minutes to several programs in the future when recording them. As I said I had to catch the last 1-2 minutes from the western feed having missed it on the eastern feed.

Matt Parkman shoots the older Hiro in the back ... he dies. Mohinder slams the door shut blocking Parkman and the police from doing any further killing. The President ... Nathan Petrelli suddenly interrupts his speech to fly to aid Matt Parkman in eliminating Hiro (the younger). The police force works to breakdown the door to the room. Nathan confronts his brother Peter. Of course it is not really Nathan Petrilli ... behind the disguise is actually Sylar. They begin to confront each other with their powers. Just as the door is breaking down with Mohinder trying to stop that from happening, Hiro and his friend teleport back 5 years! Hiro can still save the world!

Lots of plot holes in that episode but the biggest one for me is if it's Peter who blows up New York and not Sylar, then how is "future Peter" still alive? It follows he would have self destructed along with half of New York. I wouldn't think that even Claire's healing abilities would be able to regenerate a person from a bunch of atomized vapor after the blast.

Lots of plot holes in that episode but the biggest one for me is if it's Peter who blows up New York and not Sylar, then how is "future Peter" still alive? It follows he would have self destructed along with half of New York. I wouldn't think that even Claire's healing abilities would be able to regenerate a person from a bunch of atomized vapor after the blast.You're assuming he was consumed in the blast; Ted doesn't seem to have any issues when he goes nuclear, and I assume that is where Peter's ability to do so comes from.

TSo, over 5 years we now know that Sylar has knocked off Nathan, D.L., Ted Sprague, and that hot morphing chick who wore the school girl mini skirts. Did I miss anyone?
Yeah - we saw him take out Claire in the episode.

Confusion #2: Wouldn't the bomb still go off even if Hiro kills Sylar? We know it's Peter that causes it, so aside from getting rid of a killer, what will that solve?
I think it's the inability to blame Sylar for the blast if he's dead already. Sylar may also be some mechanism for causing Peter to go off; it could be due to a Peter/Sylar battle (assuming Sylar gets Ted's powers in the season finale) as we saw occurring outside the room when Hiro teleported back.

Confusion #3: Was Nathan ever President, or has Sylar assumed his form all this time?
No one knows at this point. I assume it would be most expedient for Sylar to kill Nathan once he already was President since it's easier to stay President than for Sylar to try and run for election as Nathan.

Confusion #4: Does anyone know that Sylar is pretending to be Nathan? I found it strange that Parkman didn't seem to notice that "Nathan" just reached through a door and pulled Peter out.
If he had more time to think about it he probably would, but given Sylar and Peter are about to play global thermonuclear war in the hallway, I don't think it matters.

Future Hiro said he stabbed Sylar, but he regenerated himself. I guess I missed something there. Sylar didn't kill Claire, so how did he have regenerative powers? Was it that Peter had Sylar's ability to morph into someone else, and Peter morphed (wrong term, I know) into Sylar and made it look like Sylar was the one exploding, and is who Hiro stabbed (Peter)? I'll have to go back and look, but I thought the comic showed Hiro stabbing Sylar in the chest, not the face where Peter's scar is. Anyway, that lost me. Help.

You're assuming he was consumed in the blast; Ted doesn't seem to have any issues when he goes nuclear, and I assume that is where Peter's ability to do so comes from.

In previous episodes, Ted set the Bennett house on fire and created an EM pulse. In the Bennett house scene, it looked like he as a "ground zero", with the energy pulsing away from him. I suppose that could mean he was "protected" from the effect.

That possibly could explain why Peter survived the blast. Of course, in his case, he also has Claire's regenerative ability.

Peter has to be triggered somehow.... it probably will be the battle between him and sylar

Future Hiro said he stabbed Sylar, but he regenerated himself. I guess I missed something there. Sylar didn't kill Claire, so how did he have regenerative powers? Was it that Peter had Sylar's ability to morph into someone else, and Peter morphed (wrong term, I know) into Sylar and made it look like Sylar was the one exploding, and is who Hiro stabbed (Peter)? I'll have to go back and look, but I thought the comic showed Hiro stabbing Sylar in the chest, not the face where Peter's scar is. Anyway, that lost me. Help.
You don't need to have fancy healing abilities to survive a stabbing... ;)

I think people are getting too hung up on timelines and consistency or a lack thereof. Many stories written with time travel elements also speak of multiple timelines. In my way of thinking, it would not be inconsistent to think that our heroes are meeting in one timeline but may not necessarily have come from the same timeline or returned to the same timeline when they time traveled. Thus, did future Hiro actually meet THE past Hiro or merely one of the possible past Hiros. And, there is also the notion for these stories that each change to a past event could have tremendous reprocusions on future events so that even if our guys are traveling in THE same timeline, the changes they make are bending that line so that what had been known to be true is now different.

YMMV

PS - Wow, speaking of truth and knowledge in this mode of thinking renders the meanings of these terms unstable and leaves me feeling a bit queasy.

WOW. Just wow. Peter as Neo; freakin' awesome. They certainly took a page from the X-men, but that's OK. Was it just me, or was the ground-zero scene was kinda eerie. And you can tell by Sylar's new abilities who he killed exactly. But the redeeming factor is, this future timeline can be changed. Hopefully.Since Nathan turned out to be a greedy Sylar (in that timeline), it now made sense why he wanted all the mutants dead. In anticipation of a Neo vs Smith showdown, he knew only Peter stood in his way. But it's unclear if he knows Pete can mimic anything he's got. Also, Nikki seemed to be free of Jessica; I wonder how.

But here's to hoping Hiro can prevent any of this from taking place.

In previous episodes, Ted set the Bennett house on fire and created an EM pulse. In the Bennett house scene, it looked like he as a "ground zero", with the energy pulsing away from him. I suppose that could mean he was "protected" from the effect.

That possibly could explain why Peter survived the blast. Of course, in his case, he also has Claire's regenerative ability.

An EMP pulse is a bit different than an atomic blast, no? I don't see anyway Ted (or Peter or Sylar or Claire) could possibly survive that unless he's "found" a new power like some kind of force field that would envelope and protect him. And the Haitian told Claire that the Company had ways of killing even her. I would think that a nuclear blast, which would vaporize her, her DNA, and any regenerative ability she's got (and, by extension, Peter), might qualify.

Clearly, they've got some 'splainin' to do. I don't want this show to go completely off the rails into utter implausibility. Part of its appeal thusfar is its ability to suspend disbelief in its audience. They shouldn't abuse that privilege, as some think LOST has done.

i dont know.... the reality with jessica being a stripper might be nice...

i had a hard on when sylar and peter were about to fight.....

Okay, this definitely qualifies as MUCH more information than any of the rest of us needed. :( I won't even get into the issue that it occurred while you were viewing Sylar and Peter. :p

A cat fight between Nikki, Claire and Clarace, would of course, be a different story. :)

_____________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Good episode although it OBVIOUSLY stole from the X:Men series.

This was the worse episode of them all.

Just kidding. HOLY CRAP! Best episode ever! WOW! You know, I could see having a heroes spin off or something that is set in this grim future. That was awesome, wish I could see more of it. Peter is freaking awesome. I just love all that he can do. Man, so freaking awesome.

I'll try to help answer a few questions I kept hearing repeated.

Remember that in future heroe's world, Sylar did kill Claire and absorbed her power so he healed when he stabbed Sylar. That is why he created the time line, to figure out when to go back and warn everyone. And he figured it was the save the cheerleader. He was shocked that the bomb still happened because it looks like it becomes Peter that explodes as he revealed that they covered it up.

Someone also asked about Nathan and when Sylar took over. He says to Peter that he killed Nathan well after he started his genocide project, so it was well after Nathan became president.

Oh man, best episode ever! This is how you do a TV show.

Okay, this definitely qualifies as MUCH more information than any of the rest of us needed. :( I won't even get into the issue that it occurred while you were viewing Sylar and Peter. :p

A cat fight between Nikki, Claire and Clarace, would of course, be a different story. :)

_____________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

not in that way... LOL.... just that it was soo cool

An EMP pulse is a bit different than an atomic blast, no? I don't see anyway Ted (or Peter or Sylar or Claire) could possibly survive that unless he's "found" a new power like some kind of force field that would envelope and protect him. And the Haitian told Claire that the Company had ways of killing even her. I would think that a nuclear blast, which would vaporize her, her DNA, and any regenerative ability she's got (and, by extension, Peter), might qualify.

Clearly, they've got some 'splainin' to do. I don't want this show to go completely off the rails into utter implausibility. Part of its appeal thusfar is its ability to suspend disbelief in its audience. They shouldn't abuse that privilege, as some think LOST has done.

I still don't think Ted is effected by his own power as it goes outward from him. When he was in Claire's house and he was burning everything, he escaped without a scratch. When he was practicing his own power and causing small bursts, they don't hurt him. I just don't think he is affected by his power. Perhaps even to the extent that he is immune to radiation himself do to his power or something but he clearly doesn't get harmed by it (i.e. his hands glowing, fire, radiation, etc.)

How come Peter can't heal that scar on his face?

How come Peter is not always more powerful than Sylar then (after all, he gets near Sylar and should be able to absorb his powers)?

Sylar possessing the power is far more powerful than someone absorbing some of someone else's power when he gets near them. I don't think Peter was close enough to Sylar at the beginning of their faceoff to absorb anything.

Remember that in future heroe's world, Sylar did kill Claire and absorbed her power so he healed when he stabbed Sylar. That is why he created the time line, to figure out when to go back and warn everyone. And he figured it was the save the cheerleader. He was shocked that the bomb still happened because it looks like it becomes Peter that explodes as he revealed that they covered it up.
Except, in the timeline we watched last night, Claire was still alive. So Sylar didn't need the healing powers to survive the fight with Hiro.

Sylar possessing the power is far more powerful than someone absorbing some of someone else's power when he gets near them. I don't think Peter was close enough to Sylar at the beginning of their faceoff to absorb anything.
That doesn't appear to be the case with Peter's power. He seems to be able to absorb all of the power of any hero that he comes in contact with, even if he doesn't know it or how to use it yet. He's used powers with much greater precision than their original owner did (i.e. Ted's nuclear power in last night's ep).

An EMP pulse is a bit different than an atomic blast, no? I don't see anyway Ted (or Peter or Sylar or Claire) could possibly survive that unless he's "found" a new power like some kind of force field that would envelope and protect him. And the Haitian told Claire that the Company had ways of killing even her. I would think that a nuclear blast, which would vaporize her, her DNA, and any regenerative ability she's got (and, by extension, Peter), might qualify.

Clearly, they've got some 'splainin' to do. I don't want this show to go completely off the rails into utter implausibility. Part of its appeal thusfar is its ability to suspend disbelief in its audience. They shouldn't abuse that privilege, as some think LOST has done.

I think it may have something to do with control. In a recent episode when Parkman and Ted were sprining Bennett, Ted was told to burn....how did that go...."bright, not hot"...or something like that. Apparently there are different types of energy Ted can generate.

Except, in the timeline we watched last night, Claire was still alive. So Sylar didn't need the healing powers to survive the fight with Hiro.

That is what I just stated. ORIGINALLY Sylar healed. Now the new time line has Peter exploding instead of Sylar. Future Hiro was confused because he thought it would fix everything by Sylar not getting her power. Perhaps the time line has changed now and Peter is the problem and he DOES have the healing power. They still seem to think Sylar explodes but Peter says he does and they covered it up. So perhaps they are after the wrong person and future Hiro doesn't know it is Peter causing the problem instead.

How come Peter can't heal that scar on his face?

The show's creator says he has a reason as to why he gets the scar and they all agreed it made sense.

My assumption is that perhaps he fights a hero that can cancel powers or something and that prevented the scar from ever healing. Or even more far fethced, maybe Hiro's sword has an ability built into it that it cancels power and Hiro slashed Peter and it couldn't heal.

Will be interesting to see how it goes.

That is what I just stated. ORIGINALLY Sylar healed. Now the new time line has Peter exploding instead of Sylar. Future Hiro was confused because he thought it would fix everything by Sylar not getting her power. Perhaps the time line has changed now and Peter is the problem and he DOES have the healing power. They still seem to think Sylar explodes but Peter says he does and they covered it up. So perhaps they are after the wrong person and future Hiro doesn't know it is Peter causing the problem instead.
Sylar was never the one who exploded - it was always Peter. Sylar was blamed for it, however.

That doesn't appear to be the case with Peter's power. He seems to be able to absorb all of the power of any hero that he comes in contact with, even if he doesn't know it or how to use it yet. He's used powers with much greater precision than their original owner did (i.e. Ted's nuclear power in last night's ep).Right. Did you see Mohinder try and hold that door? Pete was pounding Sylar, even though he killed a gaggle of mutants for their abilities. But there's also no way of knowing how many others Pete came in contact with prior to their skirmish.

In a crossfire like that, the only thing Parkman was thinking was how to save his own behind.

The show's creator says he has a reason as to why he gets the scar and they all agreed it made sense.

My assumption is that perhaps he fights a hero that can cancel powers or something and that prevented the scar from ever healing. Or even more far fethced, maybe Hiro's sword has an ability built into it that it cancels power and Hiro slashed Peter and it couldn't heal.

Will be interesting to see how it goes.

Or Peter blew up half of New York City and he doesn't want to forget it. Also did they ever show Peter using healing powers in the future? How do we know he actually met Claire in Tx? Maybe she got away some other way.

Sylar was never the one who exploded - it was always Peter. Sylar was blamed for it, however.As it plays out in present time, it may end up being an illusional Sylar that looks like Peter who actually explodes....gah! Shape-shifter sounds better.

Please tell me the "Final 3 Episodes" is just for this season. When I heard that I got worried that it was all gonna end before the end of May. :(

Sylar did say that Clarice (Illusion girl) helped him to get elected so I'm assuming Sylar had already killed Clarice and Nathan prior to the election and was using the illusion ability to look like Nathan.

When did Sylar kill Claire? What episode was it and how did he do it, I don't remember that.

Also, I am 99.9% sure that is was announced awhile ago that Heroes is picked up for next season.

Please tell me the "Final 3 Episodes" is just for this season. When I heard that I got worried that it was all gonna end before the end of May. :(

It won't be the final 3 episodes ever, it will just be the final 3 episodes of the season. It will return next season.

NBC RENEWS HIT SERIES 'THE OFFICE,' 'MY NAME IS EARL,' 'HEROES' AND 'LAW & ORDER: SPECIAL VICTIMS UNIT' FOR FULL SEASON OF EPISODES IN 2007-08

http://nbcumv.com/release_detail.nbc/entertainment-20070117000000-nbcrenewshitserie.html

When did Sylar kill Claire? What episode was it and how did he do it, I don't remember that.

Also, I am 99.9% sure that is was announced awhile ago that Heroes is picked up for next season.
Originally he killed her at homecoming, but we never saw that. In "our" timeline he didn't kill Claire. In the future timeline he kills her when she comes to the White House, which was shown in last night's episode.

As it plays out in present time, it may end up being an illusional Sylar that looks like Peter who actually explodes....gah! Shape-shifter sounds better.
Only if he gets to Clarice before the final throwdown. We wont know if that happens until next week (or later). ;)

Originally he killed her at homecoming, but we never saw that. In "our" timeline he didn't kill Claire. In the future timeline he kills her when she comes to the White House, which was shown in last night's episode.

ugh so much timeline confusion...I'm trying to figure out the different scenarios and how one affects the other but its just hurting my brain...

I think we should assume that in the Future Timeline, Claire never died because our-Peter saved her in our familiar timeline (so the timeline was changed in the Future before our-Hiro even got there)...

We should also assume that Sylar never exploded...he used Nathan's image/body/wahatever after Peter exploded and blamed it on himself. He then got elected President and started his crusade to kill/disable all other people that were special since he already had all the powers he needed. Once he killed Claire in Manhattan (which we saw), he knew he was pretty much un-stop-able since he knew Peter was able to regenerate after causing the massive explosion.

Does this make sense?

.......since he knew Peter was able to regenerate after causing the massive explosion.

Does this make sense?

All except that part. I still don't see how anyone with Ted's powers could protect himself from a nuclear explosion that he himself starts, with he himself at the epicenter. It's not remotely the same thing as the EMP/Bennet house fire incident. Whoever caused the explosion ought to have been vaporized along with everything else at ground zero.

Does this make sense?

As much as making a perfectly square circle does. ;)

The problem with all time travel stories is trying to keep track of all of the "what ifs". The other problem is that if past history was changed, the effect would need to be shown in the "current" timeline.

Then you are faced with problems like Ando being in a timeframe after he "died". The only way to correct the timeline would be for him to go back with Hiro and avoid his death. If he stayed in the future, he would live after he had died [head beginning to hurt].

Of course, if he goes back into the past and DOESN'T die, then the whole conversation he had in the future where he learned about his death couldn't have occurred [mind starting to fracture].

I will be the first to admit to loving time travel concepts. However, I have learned not to analyze them too closely.

[O.T.: I learned that from the Christopher Reeve movie Somewhere in Time. I posted in another thread that if you have seen the movie and think about it, there is no point in time when the watch could have actually been created.]

All except that part. I still don't see how anyone with Ted's powers could protect himself from a nuclear explosion that he himself starts, with he himself at the epicenter. It's not remotely the same thing as the EMP/Bennet house fire incident. Whoever caused the explosion ought to have been vaporized along with everything else at ground zero.

Well I wasn't really commenting on whether he could or could not survive the blast. Its obvious from what we've seen in the show that Peter did cause the blast and did survive (proven by the fact that he is alive post-explosion in the Future).

Sylar possessing the power is far more powerful than someone absorbing some of someone else's power when he gets near them. I don't think Peter was close enough to Sylar at the beginning of their faceoff to absorb anything.
That doesn't appear to be the case with Peter's power. He seems to be able to absorb all of the power of any hero that he comes in contact with, even if he doesn't know it or how to use it yet. He's used powers with much greater precision than their original owner did (i.e. Ted's nuclear power in last night's ep).
I believe that Peter possesses the powers, not simply absorbs them. But there’s something buzzing around in the back of my head that has me wondering if the manner in which Peter gets these powers, works very differently than the way that we think it does.

Sylar did say that Clarice (Illusion girl) helped him to get elected so I'm assuming Sylar had already killed Clarice and Nathan prior to the election and was using the illusion ability to look like Nathan.
No, if that was the case, how can you reconcile that Sylar would have let himself gotten blamed for the explosion, which he clearly resented, by the way he threw it into Peter’s face during their battle last night. If Sylar was already Nathan at this point, it would have been simpler and easier to blame Peter or Ted, claiming one of their powers went out of control.

BTW, this was hands-down the best single episode of any series I have seen in quite a long time.

_______________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

As someone pointed out earlier, we have people who fly, are indestructable, can become invisible, shapeshift/create an illusion, read minds, erase memories, walk through walls, travel through time, melt objects, have super hearing, manipulate the internet, exert mind control, et. al and a little thing like being able to survive an atomic blast trips us up. :)

I'm sure this has been discussed in the past, but what exactly is DL's power/ability? Can HE pass through solid objects/allow solid objects to pass through him? Or is it the objects that he touches that are temporarily no longer solid? I ask this because Sylar pulled Peter through the door and it looked like the door was no longer solid (which brings up another question, how did he know Peter was right there?), but I don't recall DL ever taking anyone through a wall/door. I remember an episode where he and Nikki were being pursued and came to a dead end/locked door, and he reached in and opened the door from the inside rather than taking Nikki through the door with him. Perhaps, in the future timeline, Sylar has better developed that ability? I know it's all fantasy/sci-fi, and I'm not nit-picking, but I just wanted to try to get some clarity on that.

Oh, and by the way, Illusion Girl's name is Candace, not Clarice. Just wanted to clear that up. :-)

I'm sure this has been discussed in the past, but what exactly is DL's power/ability? Can HE pass through solid objects/allow solid objects to pass through him? Or is it the objects that he touches that are temporarily no longer solid? I ask this because Sylar pulled Peter through the door and it looked like the door was no longer solid (which brings up another question, how did he know Peter was right there?), but I don't recall DL ever taking anyone through a wall/door. I remember an episode where he and Nikki were being pursued and came to a dead end/locked door, and he reached in and opened the door from the inside rather than taking Nikki through the door with him. Perhaps, in the future timeline, Sylar has better developed that ability? I know it's all fantasy/sci-fi, and I'm not nit-picking, but I just wanted to try to get some clarity on that.

Oh, and by the way, Illusion Girl's name is Candace, not Clarice. Just wanted to clear that up. :-)
Candace, Clarice....she's hot that's all I know! :D

I believe D.L. can pass through solid objects and bring objects through with him (the car window was no longer solid when he passed his hand through it during the car accident scene).

Maybe Sylar can see through objects now.

Oh, and by the way, Illusion Girl's name is Candace, not Clarice. Just wanted to clear that up. :-)
Are you saying she doesn't taste good with favah beans and a fine chianti? ;)

___________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Are you saying she doesn't taste good with favah beans and a fine chianti? ;)

I was just thinking that same thing as I submitted my previous post. LOL!

No, if that was the case, how can you reconcile that Sylar would have let himself gotten blamed for the explosion, which he clearly resented, by the way he threw it into Peter’s face during their battle last night. If Sylar was already Nathan at this point, it would have been simpler and easier to blame Peter or Ted, claiming one of their powers went out of control.


What better way to end any belief that Sylar is alive? Nobody is going to be looking for him if everyone in the world believes he is dead...its the perfect scapegoat

I'm sure this has been discussed in the past, but what exactly is DL's power/ability? Can HE pass through solid objects/allow solid objects to pass through him? Or is it the objects that he touches that are temporarily no longer solid? I ask this because Sylar pulled Peter through the door and it looked like the door was no longer solid (which brings up another question, how did he know Peter was right there?), but I don't recall DL ever taking anyone through a wall/door....

I'm pretty sure he broke Nikki out of prison by using his power. I'm certain that he at least offered to bring her through the prison wall, implying that he is capable of doing that. I guess he makes himself (and people/things that he is touching?) temporarily able to move through things, rather than making objects he is going through non-solid. This is based on the fact that he seemed to turn himself transparent for the bullet to pass through his head.

I'm not going to think about it too hard though. I think some people on this board have put more thought into some of the Heroes powers than the writers have ;)

Random thought: Hiro should bring future Claire back in time so we can have an 18+ version of her around in the present day. (Has anyone come up with that drooly smiley yet?)

I don't want to rain on everybody's parade but preliminary overnight ratings from last night show Heroes came in third behind Dancing with the Stars (which almost doubled the "Heroes" audience), slightly behind the CBS sitcoms at 9PM and virtually tied with 24. The 18-49 ratings should put the show first in the demographic advertisers desire, but only two episodes into this new round of episodes the "Heroes" status as a hit is seriously in question. :(

Source: http://www.mediaweek.com/mw/newsletters/proginsider/index.jsp

The Claire thing is confusing. Sylar had healing power and used it when stabbed by Hiro, hence he had already gotten Claire's ability, then the explosion. Later, 5 years, we see Claire again bleeding from the head because of Sylar.

The only sense I can make of it is that Claire healed herself when Sylar initially got her powers. She can't die. Hiro does not necessarily mean save her life when he says "save the cheerleader, save the world". He just wanted to prevent Sylar from getting the power. If one assumes Claire can't die, your head has more room for the other confusions. Like the in's/out's of time travel.

This also clears up why Peter or whoever has Claire's power is around and not killed in the blast

I don't want to rain on everybody's parade but preliminary overnight ratings from last night show Heroes came in third behind Dancing with the Stars (which almost doubled the "Heroes" audience), slightly behind the CBS sitcoms at 9PM and virtually tied with 24. The 18-49 ratings should put the show first in the demographic advertisers desire, but only two episodes into this new round of episodes the "Heroes" status as a hit is seriously in question. :(

Source: http://www.mediaweek.com/mw/newsletters/proginsider/index.jsp


since they are already signed up for next year.... i am not worried... its a great show...

What better way to end any belief that Sylar is alive? Nobody is going to be looking for him if everyone in the world believes he is dead...its the perfect scapegoat
Between the FBI, Parkman, and The Company's pathetic attempts at capturing/ holding onto Sylar, I've got the feeling he isn't terribly concerned about it. Besides after getting Candace's illusion power, there is no reason for him to ever be Sylar again.

_________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

The Claire thing is confusing. Sylar had healing power and used it when stabbed by Hiro, hence he had already gotten Claire's ability, then the explosion. Later, 5 years, we see Claire again bleeding from the head because of Sylar.

The only sense I can make of it is that Claire healed herself when Sylar initially got her powers. She can't die. Hiro does not necessarily mean save her life when he says "save the cheerleader, save the world". He just wanted to prevent Sylar from getting the power. If one assumes Claire can't die, your head has more room for the other confusions. Like the in's/out's of time travel.

This also clears up why Peter or whoever has Claire's power is around and not killed in the blast

We see Claire 5 years later because Hiro changed the past.

She originally died at homecoming...Peter kept that from happening in the 'new' time line.

Some where between Peter saving Claire and 'the bomb' destroying NYC, Peter becomes the bomb, instead of Sylar.

When claire's brain is 'hurt' she's dead. it seems Sylar removes the brain...unless someone found the brain, put it back on Claire and reattached her head, then she's dead in the original timeline.

And it seems only Sylar (and claire's buddy) really knew about Claire's ability in the original time line.

Sylar was never the one who exploded - it was always Peter. Sylar was blamed for it, however.

I don't think so. I think it was Sylar then switched to Peter causing it when the timeline was changed. Could be wrong but that is what I think.

Sylar did say that Clarice (Illusion girl) helped him to get elected so I'm assuming Sylar had already killed Clarice and Nathan prior to the election and was using the illusion ability to look like Nathan.

I'm pretty sure he said he killed Nathan after Nathan started his extermination plan, which was after Nathan was elected.

We see Claire 5 years later because Hiro changed the past. No - if this were the case, Sylar wouldn't be alive, would he? If he regenerated, he already had Claire's powers. If he didn't have them, why didn't he die in the blast?

When claire's brain is 'hurt' she's dead. it seems Sylar removes the brain...unless someone found the brain, put it back on Claire and reattached her head, then she's dead in the original timeline. Although it seems harder to believe, this fits with what we saw last night. In last night's timeline, Claire's father was hiding her because she "died" at the homecoming, not because she escaped with the Haitian. My opinion, at least.

And it seems only Sylar (and claire's buddy) really knew about Claire's ability in the original time line.And Claire's dad.

I'm pretty sure he said he killed Nathan after Nathan started his extermination plan, which was after Nathan was elected.I'd like to believe that "Nathan" was Sylar when he came up with the extermination plan. Someone else theorized, and I agree, that the extermination plan is more along Sylar's way of thinking, since he doesn't want anyone else to have powers.

Confusion #4: Does anyone know that Sylar is pretending to be Nathan? I found it strange that Parkman didn't seem to notice that "Nathan" just reached through a door and pulled Peter out.
If he had more time to think about it he probably would, but given Sylar and Peter are about to play global thermonuclear war in the hallway, I don't think it matters.

Yeah, I just rewatched the ending and when "Nathan" pulls Peter out, they show Parkman and he clearly has a "how the hell did you just do that" look on his face.

This whole thing is funny. It's not "Save the cheerleader, stop the bomb, save New York" and hence, the bomb must go off if the world is to be "saved" at all.

I'm pretty sure he said he killed Nathan after Nathan started his extermination plan, which was after Nathan was elected.
Sylar wants to exterminate the Heroes not Nathan.

Linderman said they'd all have their roles to play. At that time, I thought it was clear that Peter was going to be the one to bomb the city. It would make sense that the general flow would be to blow up the city (as Linderman wanted) and place blame on Sylar. Obviously, Sylar still killed Nathan, Shape Shifted and became the President as we saw in his paintings last week.

I like how they named the "terrorist" plan after Linderman.

That doesn't appear to be the case with Peter's power. He seems to be able to absorb all of the power of any hero that he comes in contact with, even if he doesn't know it or how to use it yet. He's used powers with much greater precision than their original owner did (i.e. Ted's nuclear power in last night's ep).

A couple of questions about Peter. Has Peter absorbed any power where he was not present when it was being used? Can Peter (or Sylar, for that matter) use more than one power at the same time? The scene where Syler sends the shards of glass at Peter comes to mind. Sylar was using the telekinesis power on the glass so he couldn't use his super hearing to locate Peter by his heartbeat. Peter was invisible so he couldn't hide on the ceiling or use telekinesis to stop the glass.

No - if this were the case, Sylar wouldn't be alive, would he? If he regenerated, he already had Claire's powers. If he didn't have them, why didn't he die in the blast?


Unless somehow the 'bomb' was changed from Sylar to Peter.


Also, does anyone think Linderman can heal himself since he has the ability to 'heal' others? That could work into the whole 'how did Sylar survive' scenario...

Maybe Sylar kills Linderman for his healing power since he couldn't get Claire...

I also read on E! Online that Linderman supposedly 'heals' Nathan's wife...possibly giving him the ultimate reason to be Linderman's shadow puppet..

I'm pretty sure he said he killed Nathan after Nathan started his extermination plan, which was after Nathan was elected.No. The extermination plan was new, proposed during that episode. Nathan was killed some time ago -- dead well before that episode took place.

Sylar suggested Nathan had already betrayed their kind when he took his place. We know that Nathan had previously asked Mohinder 4-5 years ago to develop a "cure." I expect that's what Sylar was talking about.

All except that part. I still don't see how anyone with Ted's powers could protect himself from a nuclear explosion that he himself starts, with he himself at the epicenter. It's not remotely the same thing as the EMP/Bennet house fire incident. Whoever caused the explosion ought to have been vaporized along with everything else at ground zero.
No, I think it's plausible that Ted is immune to the affects of his own power. We've seen evidence of it before.

On the other hand, maybe Sylar and Peter need to have Claire's power to survive the blast.

I don't want to rain on everybody's parade but preliminary overnight ratings from last night show Heroes came in third behind Dancing with the Stars (which almost doubled the "Heroes" audience), slightly behind the CBS sitcoms at 9PM and virtually tied with 24. The 18-49 ratings should put the show first in the demographic advertisers desire, but only two episodes into this new round of episodes the "Heroes" status as a hit is seriously in question. :(

Source: http://www.mediaweek.com/mw/newsletters/proginsider/index.jsp

Here's the ratings breakdown for 4/30/07 according to Marc Berman:

The last 45-minutes of Dancing With the Stars combined with the first 15-minutes of The Bachelor: An Officer and a Gentleman lifted ABC to 18.46 million viewers (#1) and a 5.1/13 among adults 18-49 (#2) from 9-10 p.m. Also in the hour were:

Monday 9-10 p.m.
Two and a Half Men (CBS) – 9 p.m.
Viewers: 13.65 million (#2), A18-49: 4.6/12 (#3)

The King of Queens (CBS) – 9:30 p.m.
Viewers: 12.99 million (#2), A18-49: 4.6/11 (#3)

Heroes (NBC)
Viewers: 11.94 million (#3), A18-49: 5.4/13 (#1)

24 (Fox)
Viewers: 10.77 million (#4), A18-49: 4.0/10 (#4)

Girlfriends (CW) – 9 p.m.
Viewers: 2.43 million (#5), A18-49: 1.1/ 3 (#5)

The Game (CW) – 9:30 p.m.
Viewers: 2.32 million (#5), A18-49: 1.1/ 3 (#5)

So, despite having almost seven million more viewers than "Heroes," "Dancing..." came in second in the 18-49 demo behind the mutants... I mean, heroes. That's a feat more impressive than time travel or flying, especially considering its NBC's low ratings that are dragging "Heroes" down with the whole network.

No, I think it's plausible that Ted is immune to the affects of his own power. We've seen evidence of it before.

On the other hand, maybe Sylar and Peter need to have Claire's power to survive the blast.At one point during the episode, Peter suggested that he had killed Micah and D.L. with the explosion. Based on the episode though, it's looks like Sylar killed D.L., Ted, and others before the explosion.

At one point during the episode, Peter suggested that he had killed Micah and D.L. with the explosion. Based on the episode though, it's looks like Sylar killed D.L., Ted, and others before the explosion.
And how is Sylar going to use Micah's ability? That should be interesting.

Unless somehow the 'bomb' was changed from Sylar to Peter.


Also, does anyone think Linderman can heal himself since he has the ability to 'heal' others? That could work into the whole 'how did Sylar survive' scenario...

Maybe Sylar kills Linderman for his healing power since he couldn't get Claire...

I also read on E! Online that Linderman supposedly 'heals' Nathan's wife...possibly giving him the ultimate reason to be Linderman's shadow puppet..

They said he can only heal others.

No. The extermination plan was new, proposed during that episode. Nathan was killed some time ago -- dead well before that episode took place.

Sylar suggested Nathan had already betrayed their kind when he took his place. We know that Nathan had previously asked Mohinder 4-5 years ago to develop a "cure." I expect that's what Sylar was talking about.

When Sylar and Peter are facing off in the hallway, Sylar tells Peter that he killed Nathan long after he started his extermination plan. Nathan was already "rounding up" the people with special powers, right after he became president because of the public fear. That is the plan I am referring to, Nathan gathering up all heroes. Nathan didn't start doing that until he became president.

All this talk about the future episode is cool, but kind of pointless in a sense. That is not the future that is going to happen. So whatever happened in that episode doesn't really have an impact on the show or the character's future. When they stop the bomb (am I sure NBC will not go in the direction of Jericho and having the bomb actually go off, but I wouldn't mind if they did), then the future changes, Hiro is not a terrorist, all the heroes are not being gathered up, etc.

The creator already said that the bomb plot comes to a conclusion and the next chapter of heroes will move on to something new, so I doubt what we saw in that episode will come to pass, it was just a what if scenerio.

And how is Sylar going to use Micah's ability? That should be interesting.

He won't. He only gained that power in this one episode set in the future. Same with DL's power, the illusion girl, etc. All will not happen since they avoid the bomb and the future changes.

So what do you guys and gals think Molly's power is going to be? They say that she is the only one that can truly stop Slyar she is the little girl from the very first episode). I wonder what it will be. Can she paralyze him, can she freeze him, can she prevent him from using his powers all together (like leech from x-men) or can she enhance powers, thus give say Peter an even better chance of killing Sylar because she enhances? I am not sure, can't wait to find out.

He won't. He only gained that power in this one episode set in the future. Same with DL's power, the illusion girl, etc. All will not happen since they avoid the bomb and the future changes.Bummer. I was really hoping to see that ability fleshed out a little more. Maybe in future episodes through Micah.

So what do you guys and gals think Molly's power is going to be? They say that she is the only one that can truly stop Slyar she is the little girl from the very first episode). I wonder what it will be. Can she paralyze him, can she freeze him, can she prevent him from using his powers all together (like leech from x-men) or can she enhance powers, thus give say Peter an even better chance of killing Sylar because she enhances? I am not sure, can't wait to find out.
She can remove and eat the brains of anyone anywhere in the world. :D

Bummer. I was really hoping to see that ability fleshed out a little more. Maybe in future episodes through Micah.

We will see Micah use it more I bet, so you'll still see the power, just in a little kid.

Since the Haitian already has the power to completely nullify the powers of other heroes, simply by being in relatively close proximity to them, you would think that he would have been utilized more in order to get Sylar.

Here's a question:
If the Haitian nullifies a hero's power, would Peter be able to absorb that ability? Would his ability to absorb be suppressed? Cause if Peter can absorb the Haitian's ability, while still being able to use his other acquired abilities, Sylar wouldn't be an issue.

He won't. He only gained that power in this one episode set in the future. Same with DL's power, the illusion girl, etc. All will not happen since they avoid the bomb and the future changes.
That's a helluva leap from Point A to Point B. :eek:

Sylar will still want to kill others with enhanced powers, in order to obtain their powers by eating their brains or whatever. No reason for that to change even in the absence of the bomb.

BTW, can we all agree that going back and changing the existing timeline, basically throws the entire Heroes plotline to date up for grabs?

__________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

So what do you guys and gals think Molly's power is going to be? They say that she is the only one that can truly stop Slyar she is the little girl from the very first episode). I wonder what it will be. Can she paralyze him, can she freeze him, can she prevent him from using his powers all together (like leech from x-men) or can she enhance powers, thus give say Peter an even better chance of killing Sylar because she enhances? I am not sure, can't wait to find out.
She can put him out in the cornfield...

No - if this were the case, Sylar wouldn't be alive, would he? If he regenerated, he already had Claire's powers. If he didn't have them, why didn't he die in the blast?
Alright, why is everyone assuming that Sylar would have to have regenerative powers to survive being stabbed? Has no one in the history of the world survived a stabbing?

BTW, can we all agree that going back and changing the existing timeline, basically throws the entire Heroes plotline to date up for grabs?

But I don't think Hiro will go to before whatever "present day" time it was in, say, last week's episode. That is, he isn't going to change anything in the timeline that's already been established for the last 18-19 episodes. But whatever he changes will result (hopfully) in a different future than the one we saw in last night's episode. I think. My head's starting to hurt...

That's a helluva leap from Point A to Point B. :eek:

Sylar will still want to kill others with enhanced powers, in order to obtain their powers by eating their brains or whatever. No reason for that to change even in the absence of the bomb.

BTW, can we all agree that going back and changing the existing timeline, basically throws the entire Heroes plotline to date up for grabs?

__________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

True, he will still munch away!!!

But I don't think Hiro will go to before whatever "present day" time it was in, say, last week's episode. That is, he isn't going to change anything in the timeline that's already been established for the last 18-19 episodes. But whatever he changes will result (hopfully) in a different future than the one we saw in last night's episode. I think. My head's starting to hurt...
Exactly. I think what we've seen of the past is established as canon. They wont be messing with the past anymore because it would mean the previous episodes would have meant nothing.

I don't want to rain on everybody's parade but preliminary overnight ratings from last night show Heroes came in third behind Dancing with the Stars (which almost doubled the "Heroes" audience), slightly behind the CBS sitcoms at 9PM and virtually tied with 24. The 18-49 ratings should put the show first in the demographic advertisers desire, but only two episodes into this new round of episodes the "Heroes" status as a hit is seriously in question. :(

Source: http://www.mediaweek.com/mw/newsletters/proginsider/index.jsp

It was still NBC's highest rated show for the week. Have to look at in perspective. Why would they give up on the networks number one show. If they get rid of it, they are only getting rid of their top performer. They will get rid of lower performing first. Plus, its already renewed for a season, so no big deal.

Exactly. I think what we've seen of the past is established as canon. They wont be messing with the past anymore because it would mean the previous episodes would have meant nothing.

Good point. Remember also, that NBC ordered I think like 4 more episodes of Heroes when it became such a big hit. There is a good chance this was one of those "fillers" that they threw in later. 4 episodes were not part of the original story arc.

I agree, I doubt they will mess with the past, but show us future changes. I might also be the reason they decided to kill of Isaac, they might not of liked all the future painting stuff.

For those confused by the timelines....

Last night's episode was the 5 year continuation of the timeline we've already been watching. Here's how it works.

Timeline 1 - The "natural" timeline as experienced by future-Hiro, with no time-travel intervention. We only know about this timeline from future-Hiro's memories:

- Hiro stabs Sylar.
- Sylar heals.
--- (implies Sylar killed Claire)
--- (implies Peter never met Claire)
- Sylar (reportedly) blows up New York.
- Hiro, over 5 years' time, pieces together information and comes up with his Save The Cheerleader plan.

Timeline 2 - OUR timeline - When future-Hiro travels to the present to warn Peter, we get a branch in the timeline. Events can now occur differently than future-Hiro remembers them. We've been watching this particular timeline ever since the subway warning episode.

It is established that this episode is the continuation of that timeline when present-Hiro informs future-Hiro that Claire is still alive. Thus, everything we witness in this episode actually took place in the 5 subsequent years of the timeline we were already watching. Namely:

- Peter saves Claire. (we already watched this happen)
- Peter blows up New York. (exact circumstances unknown)
- Peter's involvement is covered up and Sylar is blamed.
- Peter has a scar. ?????
- Sylar kills chameleon lady.
- Sylar kills and impersonates Nathan.
- Sylar finally gets Claire's healing ability, much later than in the "natural" timeline.

You can't really infer much about Timeline 1 from the events last night, because they all happened in "our" Timeline 2. So it's possible that originally Sylar really did explode, not Peter, in that timeline. But it doesn't really matter, because that timeline is long gone.

I really hope they have a good explanation for the scar, because Peter not healing and Claire being alive within the same timeline is a huge inconsistency. If the explanation is that Peter got scarred in the original Timeline 1 in which he never met Claire, then the writers broke the time-travel "rules" because that timeline was nullified.

Incidentally, following this episode we should be watching Timeline 3 - present-Hiro returning to the present with knowledge he didn't have before, thus creating another branch point and again giving the possibility of events being able to occur differently. They will be actively trying to prevent Timeline 2 from happening.

Since the Haitian already has the power to completely nullify the powers of other heroes, simply by being in relatively close proximity to them, you would think that he would have been utilized more in order to get Sylar.

Here's a question:
If the Haitian nullifies a hero's power, would Peter be able to absorb that ability? Would his ability to absorb be suppressed? Cause if Peter can absorb the Haitian's ability, while still being able to use his other acquired abilities, Sylar wouldn't be an issue.

They already used the Haitian's power to capture Sylar the first time. The rest of the time they don't know where Sylar is.

I would guess that the Haitian's power trumps Peter's absorbing power. Peter only came in last night after the Haitian was out of commission.

- Sylar (reportedly) blows up New York.

How do you figure? The only information we have is that Sylar is blamed for the explosion, but even in the original timeline all evidence points to Peter exploding. The *only* thing that contradicts that is the word of Nathan Petrelli, who has a big motive in hiding his brother as the person that obliterates millions of people.

For those confused by the timelines....

Last night's episode was the 5 year continuation of the timeline we've already been watching. Here's how it works.

Timeline 1 - The "natural" timeline as experienced by future-Hiro, with no time-travel intervention. We only know about this timeline from future-Hiro's memories:

- Hiro stabs Sylar.
- Sylar heals.
--- (implies Sylar killed Claire)
--- (implies Peter never met Claire)
- Sylar (reportedly) blows up New York.
- Hiro, over 5 years' time, pieces together information and comes up with his Save The Cheerleader plan.

Timeline 2 - OUR timeline - When future-Hiro travels to the present to warn Peter, we get a branch in the timeline. Events can now occur differently than future-Hiro remembers them. We've been watching this particular timeline ever since the subway warning episode.

It is established that this episode is the continuation of that timeline when present-Hiro informs future-Hiro that Claire is still alive. Thus, everything we witness in this episode actually took place in the 5 subsequent years of the timeline we were already watching. Namely:

- Peter saves Claire. (we already watched this happen)
- Peter blows up New York. (exact circumstances unknown)
- Peter's involvement is covered up and Sylar is blamed.
- Peter has a scar. ?????
- Sylar kills chameleon lady.
- Sylar kills and impersonates Nathan.
- Sylar finally gets Claire's healing ability, much later than in the "natural" timeline.

You can't really infer much about Timeline 1 from the events last night, because they all happened in "our" Timeline 2. So it's possible that originally Sylar really did explode, not Peter, in that timeline. But it doesn't really matter, because that timeline is long gone.

I really hope they have a good explanation for the scar, because Peter not healing and Claire being alive within the same timeline is a huge inconsistency. If the explanation is that Peter got scarred in the original Timeline 1 in which he never met Claire, then the writers broke the time-travel "rules" because that timeline was nullified.

Incidentally, following this episode we should be watching Timeline 3 - present-Hiro returning to the present with knowledge he didn't have before, thus creating another branch point and again giving the possibility of events being able to occur differently. They will be actively trying to prevent Timeline 2 from happening.

That sounds like a good break-down of everything. Although it's not known whether Peter or Sylar actually blew up NYC in Timeline 1. Even though it was reported that Sylar was responsible in Timeline 2, it was really Peter's doing. It's a moot point, but we definitely can't say that it was Sylar originally.

The scar on Peter can be pretty easy to explain. If he was in a fight somewhere where the Haitian was nearby, his powers would have been suppressed. Maybe he was able to heal somewhat, but still retained a scar from something.

My major gripe with the timeline stuff is future Hiro. It seemed that future Hiro remembered everything from Timeline 1. As soon as he went back in time to the subway car, he created Timeline 2. When present Hiro went to the future, he went into Timline 2, where future Hiro should not have remembered that Claire was originally killed, since she wasn't in this timeline. The only possibility I can think of is that Hiro somehow exists indepedent of the flow of time. As soon as future Hiro went back to the future, he "replaced" the future Hiro of Timeline 2. I guess Hiro's consciousness exists in a higher plane?

And to the previous poster, the girl in the preview is the one that was saved by Parkman a while back. At least according to the episode description on the Heroes Wiki.

For those confused by the timelines....

Last night's episode was the 5 year continuation of the timeline we've already been watching. Here's how it works.

Timeline 1 - The "natural" timeline as experienced by future-Hiro, with no time-travel intervention. We only know about this timeline from future-Hiro's memories:

- Hiro stabs Sylar.
- Sylar heals.
--- (implies Sylar killed Claire)
--- (implies Peter never met Claire)
- Sylar (reportedly) blows up New York.
- Hiro, over 5 years' time, pieces together information and comes up with his Save The Cheerleader plan.

Timeline 2 - OUR timeline - When future-Hiro travels to the present to warn Peter, we get a branch in the timeline. Events can now occur differently than future-Hiro remembers them. We've been watching this particular timeline ever since the subway warning episode.

It is established that this episode is the continuation of that timeline when present-Hiro informs future-Hiro that Claire is still alive. Thus, everything we witness in this episode actually took place in the 5 subsequent years of the timeline we were already watching. Namely:

- Peter saves Claire. (we already watched this happen)
- Peter blows up New York. (exact circumstances unknown)
- Peter's involvement is covered up and Sylar is blamed.
- Peter has a scar. ?????
- Sylar kills chameleon lady.
- Sylar kills and impersonates Nathan.
- Sylar finally gets Claire's healing ability, much later than in the "natural" timeline.

You can't really infer much about Timeline 1 from the events last night, because they all happened in "our" Timeline 2. So it's possible that originally Sylar really did explode, not Peter, in that timeline. But it doesn't really matter, because that timeline is long gone.

I really hope they have a good explanation for the scar, because Peter not healing and Claire being alive within the same timeline is a huge inconsistency. If the explanation is that Peter got scarred in the original Timeline 1 in which he never met Claire, then the writers broke the time-travel "rules" because that timeline was nullified.

Incidentally, following this episode we should be watching Timeline 3 - present-Hiro returning to the present with knowledge he didn't have before, thus creating another branch point and again giving the possibility of events being able to occur differently. They will be actively trying to prevent Timeline 2 from happening.
You're a genius!

At one point during the episode, Peter suggested that he had killed Micah and D.L. with the explosion. Based on the episode though, it's looks like Sylar killed D.L., Ted, and others before the explosion.

Several people have assumed that Sylar used DL's power when he pulled Peter through the door. I don't think so. Several episodes ago he obtained the power to de-solidify solid objects (from the hero that he impersonated to fool Mohinder).

I believe we can safely assume that in the future timeline DL is killed by Peter's explosion (as Peter admits), rather than by Sylar.

pankwindu, with the possible exception that thejokell pointed out, that is pretty much exactly the way I was figuring it. Future Hiro had just returned from warning Peter when he met Hiro and Ando, and the apparently the only major difference in the two timelines is the fact that Claire was still alive, but FutureHiro didn't know that. Obviously, he also thought that DL and Clarice were still alive, even though they had been killed by Sylar, but that could be the case in either timeline.

For those confused by the timelines....

Last night's episode was the 5 year continuation of the timeline we've already been watching. Here's how it works.

Timeline 1 - The "natural" timeline as experienced by future-Hiro, with no time-travel intervention. We only know about this timeline from future-Hiro's memories:

- Hiro stabs Sylar.
- Sylar heals.
--- (implies Sylar killed Claire)
--- (implies Peter never met Claire)
- Sylar (reportedly) blows up New York.
- Hiro, over 5 years' time, pieces together information and comes up with his Save The Cheerleader plan.

Timeline 2 - OUR timeline - When future-Hiro travels to the present to warn Peter, we get a branch in the timeline. Events can now occur differently than future-Hiro remembers them. We've been watching this particular timeline ever since the subway warning episode.

It is established that this episode is the continuation of that timeline when present-Hiro informs future-Hiro that Claire is still alive. Thus, everything we witness in this episode actually took place in the 5 subsequent years of the timeline we were already watching. Namely:

- Peter saves Claire. (we already watched this happen)
- Peter blows up New York. (exact circumstances unknown)
- Peter's involvement is covered up and Sylar is blamed.
- Peter has a scar. ?????
- Sylar kills chameleon lady.
- Sylar kills and impersonates Nathan.
- Sylar finally gets Claire's healing ability, much later than in the "natural" timeline.

You can't really infer much about Timeline 1 from the events last night, because they all happened in "our" Timeline 2. So it's possible that originally Sylar really did explode, not Peter, in that timeline. But it doesn't really matter, because that timeline is long gone.

I really hope they have a good explanation for the scar, because Peter not healing and Claire being alive within the same timeline is a huge inconsistency. If the explanation is that Peter got scarred in the original Timeline 1 in which he never met Claire, then the writers broke the time-travel "rules" because that timeline was nullified.

Incidentally, following this episode we should be watching Timeline 3 - present-Hiro returning to the present with knowledge he didn't have before, thus creating another branch point and again giving the possibility of events being able to occur differently. They will be actively trying to prevent Timeline 2 from happening.

For everyone wondering "how could Syler have survived being stabbed by Hiro if he didn't kill Claire and learn her power?" note that in Timeline 2 described above, Hiro never stabs Syler because he jumps past that point in time.

That sounds like a good break-down of everything. Although it's not known whether Peter or Sylar actually blew up NYC in Timeline 1. Even though it was reported that Sylar was responsible in Timeline 2, it was really Peter's doing. It's a moot point, but we definitely can't say that it was Sylar originally.

The scar on Peter can be pretty easy to explain. If he was in a fight somewhere where the Haitian was nearby, his powers would have been suppressed. Maybe he was able to heal somewhat, but still retained a scar from something.

My major gripe with the timeline stuff is future Hiro. It seemed that future Hiro remembered everything from Timeline 1. As soon as he went back in time to the subway car, he created Timeline 2. When present Hiro went to the future, he went into Timline 2, where future Hiro should not have remembered that Claire was originally killed, since she wasn't in this timeline. The only possibility I can think of is that Hiro somehow exists indepedent of the flow of time. As soon as future Hiro went back to the future, he "replaced" the future Hiro of Timeline 2. I guess Hiro's consciousness exists in a higher plane?

And to the previous poster, the girl in the preview is the one that was saved by Parkman a while back. At least according to the episode description on the Heroes Wiki.

yup...the combination of two previous posts should clear up the misinformation floating around regarding this episode...however, how Future-Hiro knew about Claire's death in Timeline 1 is probably just a cop out by the writers because if Future Hiro knew Claire was alive, then there would be no need for him to go back to the Actual Timeline (#2) (train scene from previous episode) in the first place...but again, this is another Time Travel Paradox...

Here's my take... It's a clever TV show to get people to try to figure out how certain storylines are possible in a fictional setting. :D Now Star Trek on the other hand...I just don'y understand how they get from planet to planet so fast. :D

That sounds like a good break-down of everything. Although it's not known whether Peter or Sylar actually blew up NYC in Timeline 1. Even though it was reported that Sylar was responsible in Timeline 2, it was really Peter's doing. It's a moot point, but we definitely can't say that it was Sylar originally.

The scar on Peter can be pretty easy to explain. If he was in a fight somewhere where the Haitian was nearby, his powers would have been suppressed. Maybe he was able to heal somewhat, but still retained a scar from something.

My major gripe with the timeline stuff is future Hiro. It seemed that future Hiro remembered everything from Timeline 1. As soon as he went back in time to the subway car, he created Timeline 2. When present Hiro went to the future, he went into Timline 2, where future Hiro should not have remembered that Claire was originally killed, since she wasn't in this timeline. The only possibility I can think of is that Hiro somehow exists indepedent of the flow of time. As soon as future Hiro went back to the future, he "replaced" the future Hiro of Timeline 2. I guess Hiro's consciousness exists in a higher plane?

And to the previous poster, the girl in the preview is the one that was saved by Parkman a while back. At least according to the episode description on the Heroes Wiki.

Maybe I don't understand the 'rules' of time travel, but I agree with your assessment, not the other poster's assessment. Future Hiro should now have NEW memories (knowing Claire was saved), which means Future Hiro would never have went to the train, which means he shouldn't have remembered that. He went back in time to warn "Past" Hiro what had to happen. It happened, so now, future Hiro should only know of what happened from that point forward(Claire living, etc.,) not what had happened before Future Hiro warned Present/Past Hiro.

yup...the combination of two previous posts should clear up the misinformation floating around regarding this episode...however, how Future-Hiro knew about Claire's death in Timeline 1 is probably just a cop out by the writers because if Future Hiro knew Claire was alive, then there would be no need for him to go back to the Actual Timeline (#2) (train scene from previous episode) in the first place...but again, this is another Time Travel Paradox...

I don't know why everyone thinks it is so implausible that Future Hiro was able to find out about Claire's death in Timeline 1. The latest episode demonstrates that Future Hiro developed a relationship with Bennett (Claire's adopted father) in the original timeline. Is it such a stretch that Bennett would have told Hiro that Syler killed his daughter who had the ability to regenerate? That would surely have triggered Future Hiro to think that if he could go back in time and prevent Claire's death, he would then be able to kill Syler.

I don't know why everyone thinks it is so implausible that Future Hiro was able to find out about Claire's death in Timeline 1. The latest episode demonstrates that Future Hiro developed a relationship with Bennett (Claire's adopted father) in the original timeline. Is it such a stretch that Bennett would have told Hiro that Syler killed his daughter who had the ability to regenerate? That would surely have triggered Future Hiro to think that if he could go back in time and prevent Claire's death, he would then be able to kill Syler.

The problem is that in Timeline 2, Claire was not killed. So there's no reason for future Hiro of Timeline 2 (the current timeline the show is on) to have any knowledge of Claire being killed and Sylar taking her power. Nobody has a problem with him finding out about the death in Timeline 1. The problem in Timeline 2 is that there was no death to find out about.

I think future Hiro should buy the Heroes Season 1 DVD and watch it assuming it's out in 5 years and then go from there.

How do you figure? The only information we have is that Sylar is blamed for the explosion, but even in the original timeline all evidence points to Peter exploding. The *only* thing that contradicts that is the word of Nathan Petrelli, who has a big motive in hiding his brother as the person that obliterates millions of people.
That's why I said "reportedly" and also later said it's "possible" (not "definite") that Sylar exploded in the original timeline - we don't really know if it was Sylar or Peter. Future-Hiro believes it was Sylar, and that's pretty much the only evidence we have about the original natural timeline. All new evidence introduced last night happened in Timeline 2 and has no bearing on the original timeline that future-Hiro experienced.

The problem is that in Timeline 2, Claire was not killed. So there's no reason for future Hiro of Timeline 2 (the current timeline the show is on) to have any knowledge of Claire being killed and Sylar taking her power. Nobody has a problem with him finding out about the death in Timeline 1. The problem in Timeline 2 is that there was no death to find out about.

Ok. I see where the confusion is now. The "future Hiro" that we saw in Timeline 2 last night is the future Hiro from Timeline 1. There is no Hiro that lived through all of the events that occurred in Timeline 2. Both future Hiro (from Timeline 1) and our Hiro (from Timeline 2) jumped over multiple years in Timeline 2 (in other words, there was no Hiro on the Earth at the time of the NYC explosion).

Ok. I see where the confusion is now. The "future Hiro" that we saw in Timeline 2 last night is the future Hiro from Timeline 1. There is no Hiro that lived through all of the events that occurred in Timeline 2. Both future Hiro (from Timeline 1) and our Hiro (from Timeline 2) jumped over multiple years in Timeline 2 (in other words, there was no Hiro on the Earth at the time of the NYC explosion).

The problem with that is that there was a Hiro on the Earth in the intervening years. That's the only way that Hiro would be labeled as a terrorist. So if the future Hiro from this episode was from Timeline 1, then there should have also been the future version of Timeline 2 Hiro. No matter how you cut it, the show made an error.

I'm basically going to just accept at this point that it's just a TV show and they didn't look too carefully at the time-travelling with what's allowed and what's not. I'll assume they mean for there to simply be a present Hiro and a future Hiro, with no regards to what timeline future Hiro is supposedly from.

My major gripe with the timeline stuff is future Hiro. It seemed that future Hiro remembered everything from Timeline 1. As soon as he went back in time to the subway car, he created Timeline 2. When present Hiro went to the future, he went into Timline 2, where future Hiro should not have remembered that Claire was originally killed, since she wasn't in this timeline. The only possibility I can think of is that Hiro somehow exists indepedent of the flow of time. As soon as future Hiro went back to the future, he "replaced" the future Hiro of Timeline 2. I guess Hiro's consciousness exists in a higher plane?
Yeah, you have a point there. When present-Hiro jumps forward 5 years within Timeline 2, he should technically meet the version of himself that is simply 5 years advanced from his own existence in that same timeline. So the future-Hiro should know Claire is alive and should remember things differently than stabbing Sylar and having him heal.

I guess that's why time-travel stories are so hard to do! Maybe you're right and we just have to grant some liberties to Hiro himself being able to cross timelines with memories intact. After all, he is the one causing all the branches in the timelines, it's not much of a stretch to imagine he's somewhat immune to the changes/consequences.

All this talk about the future episode is cool, but kind of pointless in a sense. That is not the future that is going to happen. So whatever happened in that episode doesn't really have an impact on the show or the character's future.Exactly. The moment Hiro returned to present time, all the future stuff hasn't existed. But since he and Ando retained their future memories, they now know who/what to avoid/destroy. We likely won't ever see this future timeline again. However, if they do nothing.........!

Man, we're gushing over a TV show.......:p

Several people have assumed that Sylar used DL's power when he pulled Peter through the door. I don't think so. Several episodes ago he obtained the power to de-solidify solid objects (from the hero that he impersonated to fool Mohinder).

I believe we can safely assume that in the future timeline DL is killed by Peter's explosion (as Peter admits), rather than by Sylar.

He used DL's power, it was the same special effect, plus the power to liquify objects does just that, it liquifies them (that is why everything turns to a puddle). After he pulls Peter through the door the door is just fine, no marks, nothing. The liquify would of turned it to a pile on the floor as soon as it happened, it didn't, he phased through it.

I have a huge spoiler. I found out what happens with the whole bomb exploding, etc. in the final episode.

They said the bomb does explode in the final episode, but that when and where it explodes prevents it from killing massive amounts of people. They said that a clue is when Nathan is running towards Peter in that episode where Peter saw himself exploding. They are implying that Nathan grabs Peter and flies to a distance (perhaps high up in the sky, above the atmosphere) so the explosion does no harm. Nathan dies in the explosion, thus also fullfilling what they told us that some heroes do die in the final episode.

The problem with that is that there was a Hiro on the Earth in the intervening years. That's the only way that Hiro would be labeled as a terrorist. So if the future Hiro from this episode was from Timeline 1, then there should have also been the future version of Timeline 2 Hiro. No matter how you cut it, the show made an error.

I'm basically going to just accept at this point that it's just a TV show and they didn't look too carefully at the time-travelling with what's allowed and what's not. I'll assume they mean for there to simply be a present Hiro and a future Hiro, with no regards to what timeline future Hiro is supposedly from.

You're assuming that future Hiro from Timeline 1 and current Hiro from Timeline 2 jumped into the same exact point in the future. What if future Hiro jumped 2 years into the future in Timeline 2 and current Hiro jumped 5 years into the future in Timeline 2. That would give future Hiro 3 years to establish himself as a terrorist, but there would still be at least 2 years in that scenario where there is no Hiro on the Earth.

If I teleport 10 years into the future, there will be a ten year window when I am not present on the Earth. Everyone I know will assume that I have just disappeared, until I magically reappear after 10 years looking like I have not aged a second. There is no shadow version of me that continues to live here for 10 years that I jump back into after ten years time.

If I jump into the past there will instantly be two versions of me existing at the same time in that timeline. Lets say I jump back two years and tell my past self to bet on the Cardinals in '06, then I jump two years into the future. There will still be two versions of me, the one who timetraveled and the one who is now rich after betting on the Cardinals. I wouldn't jump back into the body and mind of future me.

Here's another example. Lets say on April 2, 2007, I get hit by a car and my leg is amputated as a result. I'm lucky enough to have the ability to time travel, so I devise a plan to warn my past self not to get out of bed on April 2, 2007. On May 1, 2007, I follow through with my plan and go back in time to April 1, 2007 and tell my past self to stay in bed tomorrow. I now jump back into the future to May 1, 2007. Guess what? I still have an amputated leg, except now I'm coexisting with another version of me that's a month younger and has both legs.

It was still NBC's highest rated show for the week. Have to look at in perspective. Why would they give up on the networks number one show. If they get rid of it, they are only getting rid of their top performer. They will get rid of lower performing first. Plus, its already renewed for a season, so no big deal.
Yeah, no, Heroes isn't in any trouble. In addition, ratings-wise, I bet there is a lot of time-shifting going on since almost everyone I know who watches Heroes also watches 24.

The timeline stuff because complicated if you think that Future Hiro was right. That Sylar survived being stabbed because he asorbed Claire. He was wrong. Sylar never killed Claire, for whatever reason, so he never gained her power. Future Hiro never knew that it was Peter who blew up NYC because he believed the lie he was told.

We've seen from the Issac's Nathan painting that not everything in the future is what it appears to be. What could have happened is simple Sylar kills DL and gains his phase power. When Hiro stabbed him he just phased through the sword and survived.

The timeline stuff because complicated if you think that Future Hiro was right. That Sylar survived being stabbed because he asorbed Claire. He was wrong. Sylar never killed Claire, for whatever reason, so he never gained her power. Future Hiro never knew that it was Peter who blew up NYC because he believed the lie he was told.

We've seen from the Issac's Nathan painting that not everything in the future is what it appears to be. What could have happened is simple Sylar kills DL and gains his phase power. When Hiro stabbed him he just phased through the sword and survived.

Do you think Hiro would notice when he stabbed Sylar and felt no resistance against his sword and didn't draw any blood? I think he would. He's not a total idiot. I have faith that he could actually tell that he injured Sylar and moments later noticed that the wound healed itself.

Here's another example. Lets say on April 2, 2007, I get hit by a car and my leg is amputated as a result. I'm lucky enough to have the ability to time travel, so I devise a plan to warn my past self not to get out of bed on April 2, 2007. On May 1, 2007, I follow through with my plan and go back in time to April 1, 2007 and tell my past self to stay in bed tomorrow. I now jump back into the future to May 1, 2007. Guess what? I still have an amputated leg, except now I'm coexisting with another version of me that's a month younger and has both legs.

If you go back and tell yourself to stay in bed then the self that goes back would cease to exist because once you stay in bed there is no reason to go back in time.

The "Future Hiro" believes that Sylar killed Claire to absorb her power only because of Isaac's painting of a cheerleader (without a name) getting killed by Sylar. Everyone assumes it's Claire, but at least in Timeline 2, it was a different (fake Hero) cheerleader.

Maybe Claire did not die in both Timeline 1 and 2.

The only thing I am sure is that the timeline definitely changed because "Future Hiro" has no memory of him 5 years ago, traveling forward 5 years with Ando and meeting "Future Future Hiro". :p

Hong.

If you go back and tell yourself to stay in bed then the self that goes back would cease to exist because once you stay in bed there is no reason to go back in time.

That is correct. The instant you tell your two legged younger self to stay in bed, you will simply vanish. You will no longer exist so no jumping back.

If he [Ando] stayed in the future, he would live after he had died [head beginning to hurt].

Of course, if he stayed in the future, he would never go back to the point in time where he would have died in the explosion. All you would have is a long period of time, stretching from when he and Hiro left the past until five years after the explosion, in which Ando is just "missing." Thus, he could save his own life (or at least prevent its extermination by the explosion) by staying in the future. He could obviously still be killed by some other traumatic event in the future.

ugh so much timeline confusion...I'm trying to figure out the different scenarios and how one affects the other but its just hurting my brain...

I think we should assume that in the Future Timeline, Claire never died because our-Peter saved her in our familiar timeline (so the timeline was changed in the Future before our-Hiro even got there)...

We should also assume that Sylar never exploded...he used Nathan's image/body/wahatever after Peter exploded and blamed it on himself. He then got elected President and started his crusade to kill/disable all other people that were special since he already had all the powers he needed. Once he killed Claire in Manhattan (which we saw), he knew he was pretty much un-stop-able since he knew Peter was able to regenerate after causing the massive explosion.

Does this make sense?


We can also assume that Claire is not killed by Sylar in this latest episode. She should be able to regenerate after she is dead for a few days. Also when Sylar was cutting her open, she should have been regenrating then as well making it harder for Sylar to get to her brain, however that is another goof by the team not thinking.

The future Hiro from Timeline 1 should cease to exist immediately after he changes the future. It would create a loop where Timeline 1 actually happened and was then effectively erased. Therefore, Peter would still see future Hiro on the subway at the break in the timelines even though the Timeline 2 Hiro will never transport back to the subway.

I have a huge spoiler. I found out what happens with the whole bomb exploding, etc. in the final episode.

They said the bomb does explode in the final episode, but that when and where it explodes prevents it from killing massive amounts of people. They said that a clue is when Nathan is running towards Peter in that episode where Peter saw himself exploding. They are implying that Nathan grabs Peter and flies to a distance (perhaps high up in the sky, above the atmosphere) so the explosion does no harm. Nathan dies in the explosion, thus also fullfilling what they told us that some heroes do die in the final episode.
First, I'm voting to make this an official no spoilers thread. Not personal to you, Bill, but too many people are posting spoilers, which unfortunately DO show up in the e-mail posts.

And second, since you did, I think this post #3179
suggests something so identical to that spoiler, that I should rightfully be expecting a royalty check from the Heroes creative team. :)

Next thing you know, Lost will be ripping off the nanobots concept. ;)

PS: Replaced link location with Post # in spoiler

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Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

The Claire thing is confusing. Sylar had healing power and used it when stabbed by Hiro, hence he had already gotten Claire's ability, then the explosion. Later, 5 years, we see Claire again bleeding from the head because of Sylar.

The only sense I can make of it is that Claire healed herself when Sylar initially got her powers. She can't die. Hiro does not necessarily mean save her life when he says "save the cheerleader, save the world". He just wanted to prevent Sylar from getting the power. If one assumes Claire can't die, your head has more room for the other confusions. Like the in's/out's of time travel.

This also clears up why Peter or whoever has Claire's power is around and not killed in the blast

You are thinking too linearly. There are two(at least) versions of the future, and very likely will be at least one more. The first version took place before we even see episode 1. We have never seen any clips of that future. In that future, Clair was killed by Sylar at her highschool prom five years prior. At some point during that first future, Hiro goes back, and gives his younger self the "Save the Cheerleader, save the world" speech. This causes young Hiro to give this information to Peter, who then saves the Cheerleader at her prom. This splits off a new timeline that then creates the second future, which we saw in last night's episode. Sylar did not have the healing power until the end of the episode when he meets and kills Claire. However, Hiro and Ando go back in time at the end of this episode, now armed with a little bit more information. Presumably in the next episode they will go back in time, and take some action (perhaps shown in the finale) that will cause a second split in time, thereby creating a third version of the future. My guess is that version three will still not be a happy one, hence season 2 next year.

Alright, why is everyone assuming that Sylar would have to have regenerative powers to survive being stabbed? Has no one in the history of the world survived a stabbing?

And if I may add, we are talking about a young Hiro who was supposed to stab Sylar, a Hiro that did not have the benefit of seeing the post explosion world. Remember last night when Hiro said he wasn't a killer? It wasn't until after the explosion that he changes dramatically. Thus, he may not have really had his heart into killing Sylar the first time around.

Well, if we're going to get into time paradoxes, can we really afford to ignore the potential impact of Timeline .5, where Hiro goes back six months in time for Charley? ;)

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Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

I have a huge spoiler. I found out what happens with the whole bomb exploding, etc. in the final episode.

They said the bomb does explode in the final episode, but that when and where it explodes prevents it from killing massive amounts of people. They said that a clue is when Nathan is running towards Peter in that episode where Peter saw himself exploding. They are implying that Nathan grabs Peter and flies to a distance (perhaps high up in the sky, above the atmosphere) so the explosion does no harm. Nathan dies in the explosion, thus also fullfilling what they told us that some heroes do die in the final episode.

Nathan better not fly straight up because generally when you explode a nuclear bomb in the atmosphere you get more damage than exploding the bomb on the ground. This is why nuclear-armed missiles are programmed to explode several thousand feet above their targets, rather than explode on contact with the ground. The best choice Nathan could make would be to fly Peter straight east out over the Atlantic Ocean as far from the mainland as he can get before Peter explodes.

Hey, let's not start posting big-ass spoilers here. We can create a new spoilers thread like we did with LOST if we need to, but it's too easy to read 'em here, and some of us with weaker constitutions might succumb to temptation. And then I'd be pissed.

Hey, let's not start posting big-ass spoilers here. Agreed. (resisting temptation for obvious Al Roker joke, here)

Wow! Fun and interesting episode. This show continues to impress :)

Here's another example. Lets say on April 2, 2007, I get hit by a car and my leg is amputated as a result. I'm lucky enough to have the ability to time travel, so I devise a plan to warn my past self not to get out of bed on April 2, 2007. On May 1, 2007, I follow through with my plan and go back in time to April 1, 2007 and tell my past self to stay in bed tomorrow. I now jump back into the future to May 1, 2007. Guess what? I still have an amputated leg, except now I'm coexisting with another version of me that's a month younger and has both legs.Oh yeah? Prove it.........:p






Well, if we're going to get into time paradoxes, can we really afford to ignore the potential impact of Timeline .5, where Hiro goes back six months in time for Charley?Yeah....enough with the future talk. I've been waiting for them to show what happened during Hiro's journey to the past. It was never fully explored how he failed to save her....did he simply arrive too late? Perhaps the on-line comic revealed it, but I'd rather not read those.

wow this time travel thing is going on a bit! :)

Here's how I see it as based on what I said earlier.

PHiro (present day Hiro) and FHiro (Future Hiro) exist in the same world, for now. FHiro has already lived through events in his time. PHiro has yet to dictate how his future will unfold.

Based on what we've been told those future events are: FHiro thinks Claire died at the hands of Sylar. Hiro failed to kill Sylar (for undisclosed reasons - which I think means he stabbed Peter instead, who can regenerate). Peter exploded.

Until PHiro changes events significantly enough, whenever he jumps to the future it will be the devastated timeline. Right now they haven't found the action which causes the timelines to diverge. At the moment they do that whenever PHiro jumps to the future it will be different.

If FHiro jumps into the past and directly interferes, changing the events so that they work out better, the future he returns to will also have changed. That doesn't wipe out FHiro's memories of the catastrophe. They existed for him in the timeline he originally jumped from. He just cant get back there now.

Any interference FHiro does in the past must leave him enough time to jump back into his own future. That's where he belongs.

Remember, FHiro was only guessing that Sylar killed Claire and absorbed her power so the prom/dance thing was the event he thought would change things for the better. He was wrong. If he hadn't sent the message Claire might not have died anyway. Sylar was not going to kill Claire. He was going to kill the cheerleader who pretended to be her. In FHiro's devastated time here's what could have happened:

Sylar kills the cheerleader.
Claire escapes and tells HRG.
HRG sends her into hiding at some point. Initially to protect her from Sylar, later from Linderman.
To the rest of the world (including FHiro) Claire died. Either at the prom or at some other point.

We can also assume that Claire is not killed by Sylar in this latest episode. She should be able to regenerate after she is dead for a few days. Also when Sylar was cutting her open, she should have been regenrating then as well making it harder for Sylar to get to her brain, however that is another goof by the team not thinking.
"Not thinking?" That's classic. One of the most interesting, complexy written episodes of any show in recent memory and you criticize the writers for what may or may not be an error of artistic license because of what you perceive is a hard-and-fast rule of Claire's fanciful powers. :rolleyes:

now when in the `future' is Nathan killed by Sylar leading to him takeing over for nathan??Sorry but I missed hat explaination.

now when in the `future' is Nathan killed by Sylar leading to him takeing over for nathan??Sorry but I missed hat explaination.
It wasn't explained. Some people think it happened before the election, some people think after.

now when in the `future' is Nathan killed by Sylar leading to him takeing over for nathan??Sorry but I missed hat explaination.In this scene, Sylar himself said he wiped out Nathan. It wasn't shown, however....

http://www.imageviper.com/displayimage/82559/0/Heroes4.2.jpg

The 'no smoking' sign next to Peter is a nice touch. . . you have to love the attention to detail.

The 'no smoking' sign next to Peter is a nice touch. . . you have to love the attention to detail.


Reminiscent of Pyro and Iceman in Xmen III: the last stand.

Reminiscent of Pyro and Iceman in Xmen III: the last stand.

I just realized that as well. So does that mean Sylar never got to kill exploding guy or did he just choose his cold power intentionally?

The paradox only applies to a single timeline theory. Future Hiro could go back in time and alter events but if he jumped forward he would be in a different timeline to the one he left. It would be influenced by his actions in the past and it would also mean he already exists in that time.

Future Hiro could have gone back and killed Sylar but the five years of history he remembered would never have happened and two Hiro's would exist. The Hiro from that timeline and the Hiro from the future who jumped in to create it. If future Hiro is aware of that, then the noble gesture would be to change the history for everyone else. He has already lived it so it would be pointless for him to interfere directly. It would just give past Hiro a bit of a problem having his future self hanging around.

So you could go back and kill your grandfather, but if you jumped to the point you left for the past it would not be the world you remembered. You would never have existed in history because it was never your timeline to begin with. It just means you are stuck in an unfamiliar world.

True, except a multiple timeline theory doesn't really make sense in the context of the show (at least with what we know thus far). Future Hiro believes that Claire is dead even though she's not. To me, this suggests that there is one timeline, changing around him, and he's somewhat resistant to these changes because of his power.

It's possible that events in FHiro's past are substantially different from the events that we've seen as part of the show allowing for Hiro to believe that Claire died (even though, in any scenario, Peter knows that she's not dead and has received a communication from FHiro regarding saving her in the first place) but Claire knows that Petrelli is her father, and it seems unlikely that she would discover this fact without living through a timeline nearly identical to the one we've witnessed, short of making up a whole host of random crap to justify a multi-timeline theory.

short of making up a whole host of random crap to justify a multi-timeline theory.

well ... there's still time for that yet. :D

No pun intended.

Honestly... I realize this is an internet forum and there's not much else to do. But you guys take this WAYYYY too seriously ;)

It was an awesome episode, and I'm not going to worry about nitpicking the details... like, why would Parker not know the President was actually Sylar? Ok, that one did bug me :). But OTHER than that.

I'm not going to pick apart subtle timeline variations but I suspect that the rule being followed is: You can't change the past but you can change the future. "Future Hiro" can't travel to the past and change something but "Current Hiro" (rather than calling him Past Hiro) can travel to the future, observe, return to the current time and make changes. The problem is to determine the correct change and get back to the correct time (which would be very shortly after he went to the future).

"Future Hiro" tried to cheat on that rule by going back to try and influence the current people to "Save the Cheerleader......" since he could not directly influence the past; as he found out with the waitress. Influence and actions could both be construed as "changing the past", however, and it was not going to work. "Save the Cheerleader" is pretty specific even though he tried to be obscure enough to cheat the rule. (but "Save the World" was fairly meaningless.)

I just realized that as well. So does that mean Sylar never got to kill exploding guy or did he just choose his cold power intentionally?

So what is Sylar using to fight "fire-armed" Peter? It's blue so assuming cold/freeze. Where did he get THAT from?

Sorry if I missed.

So what is Sylar using to fight "fire-armed" Peter? It's blue so assuming cold/freeze. Where did he get THAT from?

Sorry if I missed.

That was a power belonging to one of the brains he munched early on (maybe first episode).

True, except a multiple timeline theory doesn't really make sense in the context of the show (at least with what we know thus far). Future Hiro believes that Claire is dead even though she's not. To me, this suggests that there is one timeline, changing around him, and he's somewhat resistant to these changes because of his power.

It's possible that events in FHiro's past are substantially different from the events that we've seen as part of the show allowing for Hiro to believe that Claire died (even though, in any scenario, Peter knows that she's not dead and has received a communication from FHiro regarding saving her in the first place) but Claire knows that Petrelli is her father, and it seems unlikely that she would discover this fact without living through a timeline nearly identical to the one we've witnessed, short of making up a whole host of random crap to justify a multi-timeline theory.

I think this is probably right. Somehow Hiro is immune to the changes in the timeline, so when he jumped back after telling Peter to Save the Cheerleader, the world had changed (Claire was still alive), but he didn't know it. This makes a bit more sense with the logic of the show (when they confront Bennett and he informs them that Claire was actually alive.

However, what past Hiro must realize now is that saving Claire is not the solution for keeping the bomb from exploding--future Hiro was wrong on that count. Hiro says to Ando, when they jumped 5 years to the future, "We have to stay here, and find out how this happened so we can go back and prevent it!"

The key piece of information for Hiro is not to kill Sylar (although that might ultimately be useful), but that Peter is really the exploding dude, not Sylar. They have been concentrating on Sylar, and fail to recognize Peter as the threat.

So what is Sylar using to fight "fire-armed" Peter? It's blue so assuming cold/freeze. Where did he get THAT from?

Sorry if I missed.

One of the comics also showed him using it pretty well. The only bit we've seen of its use so far in the show was the frozen bodies that he use to leave behind early on.

Also, anybody else think that Peter was using Claire's mother's power with the fire at the end? It didn't quite seem like a Ted's nuclear glow.

IMDB is your friend. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0813715/fullcredits#cast) But with that cast list, it takes a while to figure out. The actress is Missy Peregrym.


Apparently she's dating Ben Roethlisberger, lucky man.

http://www.missy-peregrym.org/pictures/albums/Appearances/2007/AliCelebrityFightNight/01.jpg

Apparently she's dating Ben Roethlisberger, lucky man.

Yeah, peep Big Ben in that pic. Superbowl hardware on one hand, Superhottie on the other one :D

It was an awesome episode, and I'm not going to worry about nitpicking the details... like, why would Parker not know the President was actually Sylar? Ok, that one did bug me :). But OTHER than that.

or why didn't Sylar just kill the Haitian? That would give him the power to nullify the powers of everyone else, making them easy pickings.

or why didn't Sylar just kill the Haitian? That would give him the power to nullify the powers of everyone else, making them easy pickings.

If the Haitian nullified all of Sylar's abilities, then he would be forced to take him on hand-to-hand before getting to his brain. I don't know about you, but without any powers, I would give the Haitian pretty good odds at beating the crap out of Sylar.

Yeah, peep Big Ben in that pic. Superbowl hardware on one hand, Superhottie on the other one :D


after his 10 billion concussions, i hope he knows he is holding a girl...

or why didn't Sylar just kill the Haitian? That would give him the power to nullify the powers of everyone else, making them easy pickings.

I am still not sold that the Haitain can nullify everyone's power just being around them. I think he has to concentrate on it and it is just a side effect of his power, because Matt has been able to get past it by concentrating. I still think the Haitain's blocking ability only works if the hero has to use their mind to focus their power, but not like Claire's healing that is spontanous. The Haitain's main power seems to be memory erasing, an there is no evidence a hero has more then one power (except of course for the two exceptions).

One of the comics also showed him using it pretty well. The only bit we've seen of its use so far in the show was the frozen bodies that he use to leave behind early on.

Also, anybody else think that Peter was using Claire's mother's power with the fire at the end? It didn't quite seem like a Ted's nuclear glow.

First thing that popped in my mind was Ted's power because it didn't look like fire. Plus, when they were trying to hold the door closed during the battle, the sound and effects shown where of Ted's power over fire coming through the door.

I am still not sold that the Haitain can nullify everyone's power just being around them. I think he has to concentrate on it and it is just a side effect of his power, because Matt has been able to get past it by concentrating. I still think the Haitain's blocking ability only works if the hero has to use their mind to focus their power, but not like Claire's healing that is spontanous. The Haitain's main power seems to be memory erasing, an there is no evidence a hero has more then one power (except of course for the two exceptions).
Hero says that both he and Peter would be powerless if they were to go upstairs where the Hatain was, though.

Why not just go back in time when Sylar was born and kill him? Sounds simple enough.

Hero says that both he and Peter would be powerless if they were to go upstairs where the Hatain was, though.

Did he mention Peter specifically? I remeber originally he said he could prevent Hiro from using his powers somehow and I thought in that other scene he just said, we need to stop the Haitain, or something general like that.

At any rate, the Haitain seems to be able to prevent some powers that are mental related from working, not sure how many of Peter's are in the category, the whole Haitain plot line for his powers is very vague and unexplained.

If I jump into the past there will instantly be two versions of me existing at the same time in that timeline. Lets say I jump back two years and tell my past self to bet on the Cardinals in '06, then I jump two years into the future. There will still be two versions of me, the one who timetraveled and the one who is now rich after betting on the Cardinals. I wouldn't jump back into the body and mind of future me.

Here's another example. Lets say on April 2, 2007, I get hit by a car and my leg is amputated as a result. I'm lucky enough to have the ability to time travel, so I devise a plan to warn my past self not to get out of bed on April 2, 2007. On May 1, 2007, I follow through with my plan and go back in time to April 1, 2007 and tell my past self to stay in bed tomorrow. I now jump back into the future to May 1, 2007. Guess what? I still have an amputated leg, except now I'm coexisting with another version of me that's a month younger and has both legs.

This is true according to "Primer" time travel, but not "Back to the Future" time travel.

First thing that popped in my mind was Ted's power because it didn't look like fire. Plus, when they were trying to hold the door closed during the battle, the sound and effects shown where of Ted's power over fire coming through the door.
It's fire vs. ice

Why not just go back in time when Sylar was born and kill him? Sounds simple enough.

Besides the fact that the story would be pretty dull... maybe Hiro doesn't know who he is, when and where he was born.

Also, I think there could a reason that Future Hiro stopped time when he went back to talk to Peter. Maybe Hiro cannot stay in the past as the time flows. He seems to be able to go to the future (from the point of his original timeline) and come back, but not go to the past (or it is very difficult when the time flows).

Hong.