Really, I thought, from an entertainment standpoint, it was a home run! While it would have been cool to see the two duke it out, that would have been a little cliche...

Do y'all think that Peter was using Nikki's super strength for those final punches? I do, and I also think he's lucky that D.L. stayed out of range. Although, it would've been funny seeing Peter trying to hit him, only to have his fists phase right through Sylar's face.

And really, what the hell possessed Nikki to just jump in the brawl like that? She never struck me as the type who went, "Ooh, fight!" and started kicking the helpless punk along with everybody else.

...there was a blood trail leading to the sewer.

Like you've never left a blood trail while dragging a dead corpse into a sewer.

Please... :rolleyes:

Last I heard, they are going to run a “Heroes: Origins” at the beginning of the fall season. Viewers will vote for the heroes we like, and they will become part of season two, which I believe starts in January. It is sort of like American Idol: Heroes.




Yea I heard about that, But it seem oh sooooo long from now....Thanks though


Djoel

Last I heard, they are going to run a “Heroes: Origins” at the beginning of the fall season. Viewers will vote for the heroes we like, and they will become part of season two, which I believe starts in January. It is sort of like American Idol: Heroes.

Is that a new plan? I've read that Heroes Volume Two will start in the fall. Origins is supposed to air during the mid-season hiatus. Remember, Origins is only 6 episodes... at the moment.

In my opinion, this is a very bad plan. I much prefer having Volume Two begin in January, like you said. 24 has already learned this lesson, and Lost is getting in on the act next season as well.

And no, this is NOT part of my master plan to ensure Friday Night Lights has as little competition as possible come Fall.

wow, that was sadly the first episode I can actually say I was disappointed with. It didn't really build any momentum I was expecting from a finale and the scene in the middle with Peter on the balcony just dropped the pacing down to a crawl just as it started to heat up.

The end showdown was particularly disappointing. It didn't really showcase any of the abilities either absorbed, not even the fire vs ice conflict hinted at in the flash forward. It may have given the rest of the cast an opportunity to chip in, but the direction didn't really make it particularly dramatic.

And why did Peter not just fly himself? Nathan could have just dropped him off somewhere desolate as well. He didn't even have to land, he could have just let Peter go.

And why did Peter not just fly himself? Nathan could have just dropped him off somewhere desolate as well. He didn't even have to land, he could have just let Peter go.

Peter lost control of his powers. That's why he blew up. In other words, no control = no flying.

As for your other suggestion, I'm guessing Nathan just didn't have a whole lot of time to put together a solid plan. It wasn't like 24 Season Two, where they had several hours and all of the White House resources to find the perfect detonation point.

wow, that was sadly the first episode I can actually say I was disappointed with. It didn't really build any momentum I was expecting from a finale and the scene in the middle with Peter on the balcony just dropped the pacing down to a crawl just as it started to heat up.

The end showdown was particularly disappointing. It didn't really showcase any of the abilities either absorbed, not even the fire vs ice conflict hinted at in the flash forward. It may have given the rest of the cast an opportunity to chip in, but the direction didn't really make it particularly dramatic.

And why did Peter not just fly himself? Nathan could have just dropped him off somewhere desolate as well. He didn't even have to land, he could have just let Peter go.

My wife and I both said the same thing. It didn't make sense.

Where did you guys get the impression that Sylar was alive? I must have missed something.
If nothing else, from the fact that Zachary Quinto's been signed for next season. :D

Last I heard, they are going to run a “Heroes: Origins” at the beginning of the fall season. Viewers will vote for the heroes we like, and they will become part of season two, which I believe starts in January. It is sort of like American Idol: Heroes.

I thought Origins was going to be run when Heroes went on hiatus(next season) to provide something in the gaps/breaks of Heroes episodes and the favorite of the Origins was going to be included in season 3.

Is that a new plan? I've read that Heroes Volume Two will start in the fall. Origins is supposed to air during the mid-season hiatus. Remember, Origins is only 6 episodes... at the moment.

In my opinion, this is a very bad plan. I much prefer having Volume Two begin in January, like you said. 24 has already learned this lesson, and Lost is getting in on the act next season as well.

And no, this is NOT part of my master plan to ensure Friday Night Lights has as little competition as possible come Fall.

I'm reading this as Origins first....

http://www.zap2it.com/tv/news/zap-nbcupfronts-heroesorigins,0,5536579.story

And why did Peter not just fly himself? Nathan could have just dropped him off somewhere desolate as well. He didn't even have to land, he could have just let Peter go.



Actually we really don't know what happened, all we saw was a flash!

DJoel

If nothing else, from the fact that Zachary Quinto's been signed for next season. :D

That doesn't HAVE to mean that Sylar is still alive. Remember Illyria, Angel fans?

Actually we really don't know what happened, all we saw was a flash!

DJoel

It was an "heroic" end for both brothers (though I suppose an argument could be made that Peter somehows "survives" the blast and regenerates, then flys back down to the square and says, "Man, what a rush".)

Then again, probably not.

yeah the whole sylar vs peter battle was suppose to be on some neo vs mr. smith type sh*t. it was more like a fight scene from power rangers or vr troopers

For the best show on tv, I thought that was an amazing season finale. I was very happy with the showdown between the Heroes and Sylar. I can't wait until the next season starts.

Also, we finally learned Mr. Bennett's first name....Noah.

It was an "heroic" end for both brothers (though I suppose an argument could be made that Peter somehows "survives" the blast and regenerates, then flys back down to the square and says, "Man, what a rush".)

Then again, probably not.




Okay once you put it that it does sound corny, but you never know what the writers are coming up!


Djoel

Is that a new plan? I've read that Heroes Volume Two will start in the fall. Origins is supposed to air during the mid-season hiatus. Remember, Origins is only 6 episodes... at the moment.

In my opinion, this is a very bad plan. I much prefer having Volume Two begin in January, like you said. 24 has already learned this lesson, and Lost is getting in on the act next season as well.

And no, this is NOT part of my master plan to ensure Friday Night Lights has as little competition as possible come Fall.

You are right....just found this:

http://usmagazine.com/nbc_announces_i_heroes_i_spin_off

Looks like Heroes: Origins will be used during the hiatus.

I was really expecting Peter to fall from the sky and put a big crater in the road...regenerate and climb out.

For the best show on tv, I thought that was an amazing season finale. I was very happy with the showdown between the Heroes and Sylar. I can't wait until the next season starts.

Also, we finally learned Mr. Bennett's first name....Noah.



It has it's charm to it for sure, and the whole WHAT IF affect.The writer can turn this show at any direction.


DJoel

"And Hiro.................You look badass"

AMAZING....

SOOOOOOO much better than the 24 finale...so glad I saved the best for last.

Anybody think Hiro went back to meet up with Kenshei? And that perhaps, Kenshei is has some special abilities ;)

And Molly says there someone even worse?!? She wasn't talking about Sylar! Correct?

Sylar obviously can see the future now (without even painting it) and he saw he wasn't going to die...

So great...the HD looked awesome...cannot wait for next season...

and for the record, we didn't need a Neo vs. Smith fight at the end...it just wouldn't have worked...

RE: Noah

I hope that puts an end to the mysterious phenomenon -- the one Mrs. Bennett experienced whenever she was about to say that name while telling an amusing anecdote, only to be cut off each and every single time.

Also, maybe now HRG (can we stop using that now? Please?) can get some proper ID's printed up. You know, ones that actually identify him.

Personally, I liked the heroes joining together to fight Sylar at the end, but I was expecting and hoping for a lot more with the Peter-Sylar showdown. Their 1st fight at Claire's school was much better than that.

So, Sylar is actually alive? I sure hope if I ever get a sword through the midsection, piercing vital organs, that I can crawl away too.

yeah the whole sylar vs peter battle was suppose to be on some neo vs mr. smith type sh*t. it was more like a fight scene from power rangers or vr troopers

It basically boiled down to a one, two, knockout. Sylar should have easily kicked the ass of everyone as easily as he did with Parkman. He should have heard Nikki coming, Hiro could easily have been stopped as he ran straight towards him - Sylar can stop bullets in his peripheral vision but can't stop a slow running man? He can control his explosive power so he could easily have used that at some point even if all he was doing was biding time to get Peter angry enough to explode.

Peter too was particularly unimpressive. He stood there and allowed himself to be choked. He could have flown rings around Sylar or at least turned invisible and got some telekinetic punches in. He's clearly got the hang of invisibilty, there's no reason he couldn't have used it.

I am hoping lost doesn't disappoint, it two hours of lot of filler I bet.


djoel

My wife and I both said the same thing. It didn't make sense.As Anime said, he was probably too preoccupied trying not to blow up. Thinking about flying might've calmed him down, but he didn't seem to take that chance. OTOH, the results may have been more disasterous if he had.

Also Pete seems to have access to the dream-world that Mohinder sometimes visits, except Simone's dad lives there? I expected her to return somehow (after the strange stare he gave her in Parasite), but not him. Did he download their conciousnesses?

http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/5388/heroesmr8.th.jpg (http://img483.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heroesmr8.jpg)

http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/2226/heroes2dv3.th.jpg (http://img483.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heroes2dv3.jpg)

http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/83/heroes3uk1.th.jpg (http://img483.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heroes3uk1.jpg)

awesome episode but great to see the beginning of how they got their powers...

Did anybody else find it funny how suspiciously clean Claire's outfit was, considering the massive bleeding she must've experienced after her great escape? The entire front side of her clothes should've been soaked in blood.

Of course, her cheerleader outfit never suffered much more than some dirt and cuts.

Some images from Sylar's eyes when he is dying:

http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/2398/heroes4pw3.th.jpg (http://img483.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heroes4pw3.jpg)

http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/5439/heroes6wx8.th.jpg (http://img483.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heroes6wx8.jpg)

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/4750/heroes5dp8.th.jpg (http://img501.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heroes5dp8.jpg)

Did anybody else find it funny how suspiciously clean Claire's outfit was, considering the massive bleeding she must've experienced after her great escape? The entire front side of her clothes should've been soaked in blood.

Of course, her cheerleader outfit never suffered much more than some dirt and cuts.

oh come on...thats reaching right...though I wouldn't have mind had she shown up after all her clothes got torn off from the fall ;)

*go directly to jail, do not pass go*

Some images from Sylar's eyes when he is dying:

http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/2398/heroes4pw3.th.jpg (http://img483.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heroes4pw3.jpg)

http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/5439/heroes6wx8.th.jpg (http://img483.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heroes6wx8.jpg)

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/4750/heroes5dp8.th.jpg (http://img501.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heroes5dp8.jpg)





It looks to me like some one ,or something is sucking him dry! And not in a good way either ;)


Djoel

and for the record, we didn't need a Neo vs. Smith fight at the end...it just wouldn't have worked...

I think you'll find we did need a Neo vs Smith fight, or some semblance of it.

Considering how many posts have revolved around answering the question of, "Considering their combined powers, who would win in a fight? Peter or Sylar?" The answer based on tonight's episode is "whoever doesn't get sucker punched by a parking meter."

Peter too was particularly unimpressive. He stood there and allowed himself to be choked. He could have flown rings around Sylar or at least turned invisible and got some telekinetic punches in. He's clearly got the hang of invisibilty, there's no reason he couldn't have used it.They purposely throttle back the action here....often to the dismay of us viewers. Petrelli won't be the bad mofo Pete 'til probably the end of next season. If he returns, that is.

Claire's shirt has a little blood on it:

http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/1170/heroes7jd3.th.jpg (http://img483.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heroes7jd3.jpg)

Peter exploding:

http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/9354/heroes8vp4.th.jpg (http://img483.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heroes8vp4.jpg)

Sylar dead?:

http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/9463/heroes9lk5.th.jpg (http://img483.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heroes9lk5.jpg)

Sylar's body disappeared into the sewer:

http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/9853/heroes10eq5.th.jpg (http://img483.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heroes10eq5.jpg)

They purposely throttle back the action here....often to the dismay of us viewers. Petrelli won't be the bad mofo Pete 'til probably the end of next season. If he returns, that is.



Is there any info if he'll be back for the next? And is Generation going to be next Volume?
I thought it was Origins :confused:


DJoel

yeah the whole sylar vs peter battle was suppose to be on some neo vs mr. smith type sh*t. it was more like a fight scene from power rangers or vr troopers
This show has always been more subtle on the characters using their powers than the X-Men. If you were expecting a over the top X-Men or the Matrix sequels movie style CGI fight, you are not going to get that. Besides they don't have the budget for that.

I enjoyed the finale. Did not leave us on a big cliff hanger as to the fate of NYC. Did leave a lot of unanswered questions as to what the motives behind the plan was and who is on which side in the "organization". Someone could make a long list of unanswered questions.

For example, where is wireless girl? Did she make any other appearance other than the short scene where she met Ted in the remote cabin? Can she handle Unicode? Can she do web pages? :D

In Company Man, Claude the invisible man (aka Dr. Who) was to be killed for hiding someone. Who was he protecting? I expect we will see him again next season.

Some images from Sylar's eyes when he is dying:

http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/2398/heroes4pw3.th.jpg (http://img483.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heroes4pw3.jpg)

http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/5439/heroes6wx8.th.jpg (http://img483.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heroes6wx8.jpg)

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/4750/heroes5dp8.th.jpg (http://img501.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heroes5dp8.jpg)


something took him into the sewers...... it could be the thing molly was talking about or how about Petrilli's mom?


man i cant wait til the 24th..... when Heroes returns...

They purposely throttle back the action here....often to the dismay of us viewers. Petrelli won't be the bad mofo Pete 'til probably the end of next season. If he returns, that is.

I wasn't expecting a full on "whirlwind of doom" from Peter, but he went in ready to fight and he knows how to use some of his abilities now. He used them to some convincing effect the second time they met and that was a surprise attack by Sylar. This time around Peter never tried one of them, even when he told Nikki he was ready to finish the fight. He had no problem when he was running away from Nathan a few scenes earlier. If I was choosing when to be invisible, trying to avoid getting my head sliced open would be the time.

Am I the only who feels a little dirty every time those screenshorts of Sylar's vertically-oriented eyeball are posted?

Just me then? Damn. :o

For example, where is wireless girl? Did she make any other appearance other than the short scene where she met Ted in the remote cabin? Can she handle Unicode? Can she do web pages? :D


Hana popped up in "String Theory" (AKA the Future episode) as one of Mr. Bennett's accomplices.

And then she died.

Oh well.

Is there any info if he'll be back for the next? And is Generation going to be next Volume?
I thought it was Origins :confused:

DJoel
check it out... Generations is VOLUME 2, ORIGINS is a 6ep midseason filler
remember it and stop getting confused... :cool:

This show has always been more subtle on the characters using their powers than the X-Men. If you were expecting a over the top X-Men or the Matrix sequels movie style CGI fight, you are not going to get that. Besides they don't have the budget for that.


yeah, subtle. Hiro never jumps through time and space, Ted never juggled fireballs every time he was on screen, Claire never put her skin back on, Peter never goes invisible, Sylar never uses telekinesis, DL never phases his fist into someone's brain ... :rolleyes:

And budget or not Tim Kring said "the fifth act is ridiculous, it's like a $90 million dollar movie." I didn't see that. With the exception of the sky nuke, the previous episode felt bigger and more expensive than this one.

In Company Man, Claude the invisible man (aka Dr. Who) was to be killed for hiding someone. Who was he protecting? I expect we will see him again next season.

I was disappointed he never reappeared (haha) this season. Or maybe he was there, and we just didn't see him!

This show has always been more subtle on the characters using their powers than the X-Men. If you were expecting a over the top X-Men or the Matrix sequels movie style CGI fight, you are not going to get that. Besides they don't have the budget for that.



Yes I agree about their powers being more on the light side of things( X-Men light)Or even al unbreakable I loved that flick.


How about that two Fantastic four trailer....Miss the first one I think I'll miss this one too.


Djoel

once again I say this should have been 2hrs or at least 1:30. just felt like they tried to cram too much in. Still better than 24 finale though but not as "whats next season" as The Shield (and hopefully LOST).

HTH Hiro goes to 1671 is just crazy but to top it off, the eclipse happens, WOW. MIKE4HDTV, can ya get shots of the samurai's? I think one might be Hiro's faja...

If ya dont want to be spoiled then stop asking if Sylar is dead or not. That's been known for almost the whole season. (from Interviews)

This show has always been more subtle on the characters using their powers than the X-Men. If you were expecting a over the top X-Men or the Matrix sequels movie style CGI fight, you are not going to get that. Besides they don't have the budget for that.

i understand that but come on. that fight was lame ass. sylar vs peter was one of the biggest topics about the show (definitely after the future episode). who is stronger, who has more powers, etc. but in the end who cares, cant wait for season 2 and the hd dvd season 1 set this fall

Yes, no kick-ass carnage, but I liked the elegant subtlety of it, particularly as I pretty much NAILED this ending to the wall back in early March :) :cool: :

Umm, kind of overkill actually, if we’re going to speculate. Let’s say Ted has Ted’s powers, Sylar has Ted’s powers, or Peter has Ted’s powers. Doesn’t matter. Whichever one can be stopped the same way. Peter has Nathan’s power of flight, and Nathan's confrontation with HRG taught us that it isn’t the ‘winged-bird power’ as it originally appeared, but more along the lines of a jet-stream rocket-fuel speed flying. Whoever is going to blow (including himself), Peter just has to get them high enough up in the atmosphere so that the explosion doesn’t destroy the 8 million population of NYC, even if it takes out a fair amount of the skyline. After all, this was the very first power that Peter ever realized he had.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9965766&&#post9965766

___________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Was this whole season written up,or where the writers change thing as this show build momentum?

As for NBS ordering 22 episodes that would mean a bigger budget as well!
So maybe you CGI freaks might see some more get you fill.

DJoel

Yes, no kick-ass carnage, but I liked the elegant subtlety of it, particularly as I pretty much NAILED this ending to the wall back in early March :) :cool: :



http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9965766&&#post9965766

___________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind


So that your super powers! You can write the ending seasons of a show on avs forum!!!!!

What ever you do, don't spoil the end of Lost then :D


DJoel

Yes, no kick-ass carnage, but I liked the elegant subtlety of it, particularly as I pretty much NAILED this ending to the wall back in early March :) :cool: :



http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9965766&&#post9965766

___________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

you and a few million others on other forums :rolleyes: ;) :D

yeah, subtle. Hiro never jumps through time and space, Ted never juggled fireballs every time he was on screen, Claire never put her skin back on, Peter never goes invisible, Sylar never uses telekinesis, DL never phases his fist into someone's brain ... :rolleyes:
You misunderstood my point. I did not say that they are not showing them using their powers. They have shown them using their powers in a limited fashion. But they are not having the characters put on spandex suits and using their powers in long CGI sequences.

So for these complaints about Peter not using all his powers, I suspect we have not heard all the details about his limits. It may be that he can use only one power at a time or simply will never have effortless control over his powers. If you make him all powerful, then they will have to come up with a equivalent of kyptonite to make for a story. I assume Peter survived the explosion in the sky and he will be back next season.
Maybe Sylar, because he went Jeffrey Dahmer on his victims brains, is/was better able to understand and control the powers he collects than Peter can.

Ok, here is wild speculation. We did not see the face of the Kensei [sp?] behind the mask in the short Volume 2 preview with Hiro at the end. Anyone want to lay odds that it will be George Takei? Hiro's Dad may be either older than he looks or he can time travel as well?

HRG's first name is Noah? As in Noah's Ark for a future plotline or reference?

that isnt a spoiler

and hopefully MIKE gets my message asking for those pics...

So that your super powers! You can write the ending seasons of a show on avs forum!!!!!
Hell no, Jackson, that's the least of them. Started when I was about Micah's age. ;)

What ever you do, don't spoil the end of Lost then :D
Too late! Locke dropped windowpane back in the late 60's when he was a beachcomber, and Lost is the story that's still going on in his head. Didn't you ever wonder why the show's so big on flashbacks? :D

_______________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Yes...Sylars 'base' power was the ability to figure out how things work, which means that after he figures out the 'brains' of other Heroes and the power within, he also figures out how it works and how to use it. In short, he gains an almost immediate mastery of the power, probably a greater mastery than the hero who originally possessed it to begin with!

BTW: Remember the bug that was crawling on Sylar when he was catatonic in HRG/NB's special power-proof prison cell back at the paper company? That same kind of bug was crawling on that sewer cover...

I think I remember a reference to the resiliency of the cockroach at one point too...

you and a few million others on other forums :rolleyes: ;) :D
Maybe, but not on THIS forum. :p :cool: Wouldn't know about the others. Always believed you danced with the one you brung to the party. ;)

____________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Hell no, Jackson, that's the least of them. Started when I was about Micah's age. ;)


Too late! Locke dropped windowpane back in the late 60's when he was a beachcomber, and Lost is the story that's still going on in his head. Didn't you ever wonder why the show's so big on flashbacks? :D

_______________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind




It's all a head trip? ( I thought he you know, don't what to Spoilet for any one who wasn't seen the last few episode.)

Great thanks alot you just save two hours of my life :p




Serious note I hope I never saw SM3 though.



Djoel

BTW: Remember the bug that was crawling on Sylar when he was catatonic in HRG/NB's special power-proof prison cell back at the paper company? That same kind of bug was crawling on that sewer cover...

I think I remember a reference to the resiliency of the cockroach at one point too...


Hmm good theory,But I though more along how roaches are hard to kill cliche'.
They can withstand a nuke thing...I been wrong before..

Am I the only who feels a little dirty every time those screenshorts of Sylar's vertically-oriented eyeball are posted?

Just me then? Damn. :o

Hi Five dude... :D

and why was Claire so afraid to shoot Peter?...I'm assuming that shooting him was just to knock him out of exploding.

and since when could shape shifter girl make little pint size shape shifty things(fake micah)??

Very good ending tonight for the finale. Can't wait til Season 2 :)

Hiro could easily have been stopped as he ran straight towards him - Sylar can stop bullets in his peripheral vision but can't stop a slow running man?

Yea it would have been a little more impressive if Hiro showed himself and then time travelled to appear with the tip of the sword at Sylars chest to drive it through him...kinda like he saved Ando from Sylar earlier...

Pretzel, the chick was not a shape shifter. She is an illusionist. She can make u see things that she wants you to see. Even herself with a different appearance and also the fake micah.

Pretzel, the chick was not a shape shifter. She is an illusionist. She can make u see things that she wants you to see. Even herself with a different appearance and also the fake micah.

ahhh I guess I'd only seen here illusionate(not a word, I know) into just one person before this episode or missed it if she had done multiple illusions...
Thanks

I'm reading this as Origins first....

http://www.zap2it.com/tv/news/zap-nbcupfronts-heroesorigins,0,5536579.story

From the very article you posted:

"Just how the "Origins" episodes will be scheduled along with the main "Heroes" storyline has yet to be worked out. The most likely scenario, Reilly says, will be to have "Heroes" start its second season in the fall and run more or less straight through its 24 episodes, with perhaps a short break during the holidays. "Origins" would then follow at the end of the season. Another option would be to run "Origins" "as a chunk" in the spring, before the concluding episodes of "Heroes.""

Word is the hero from Origins that joins the main show will be for season 3.

DVD/HDDVD Aug28th cant wait to see what they cut out.

S2 [Vol 2] "Generations" Sept 24th (www.got-heroes.com)

Word is the hero from Origins that joins the main show will be for season 3.

And of course, it will be the hottest chick.

Which I'm completely fine with, by the way.

Pretzel, the chick was not a shape shifter. She is an illusionist. She can make u see things that she wants you to see. Even herself with a different appearance and also the fake micah.

But at the end she should have reverted to her "real" self. She hinted that the beautiful woman was not her "real" appearance either, that she was in reality fat or something. I was expecting to see that true appearance when she lost consciousness! ;)

But at the end she should have reverted to her "real" self. She hinted that the beautiful woman was not her "real" appearance either, that she was in reality fat or something. I was expecting to see that true appearance when she lost consciousness! ;)

I thought that strange too, based on what she had said to Micah ("How do you know this isn't what I really look like"---or words to that effect).

I thought that strange too, based on what she had said to Micah ("How do you know this isn't what I really look like"---or words to that effect).

i was half expecting her to be disfigured. it would have been pretty funny if she had in fact been a guy.

Color me underwhelmed. Sooooo many inconsistencies, even for this show. As someone else mentioned, when Candice is knocked unconcious, why didn't she revert to her fat, ugly self? We never found out what the heck the Linderman Group wanted to blow up the city for, what their big plan was all about, and how they managed to recruit Nathan into it. And then Nathan, who had apparently bought into the whole shebang, has a sudden change of heart in time to fly Peter out of there...? Aw, c'mon. Shouldn't there be a little consistency of motivation? And what happened to the big showdown between Peter and Sylar? That was pretty lame after they had been building up to it all season. And Sylar not stopping Hiro from running straight at him to stab him, even though he had seen the comic and knew it was coming?? He sure didn't have any problem stopping/reversing Parkman's bullets. It was ridiculous.

Well, this show ain't no LOST, that's for sure. But that finale even fell down as bubblegum entertainment. My wife and I both felt it was one of the weakest episodes of the series.

Great finale. Hat's off to the geniuses who came up with the idea of having next season be a full season of show plus six 'origins' episodes--sheer genius. It allows long runs of the show in sequence, plus the six extra as 'filler' episodes, instead of repeats. I hear Heroes has lost some viewers, which is natural, some people just can't follow a serial for a whole year, but I have to admit that these guys are playing their hand as perfectly as possible.

Also Pete seems to have access to the dream-world that Mohinder sometimes visits, except Simone's dad lives there? I expected her to return somehow (after the strange stare he gave her in Parasite), but not him. Did he download their conciousnesses?
They kind of gave it the impression that Peter travelled back in time (a la Hiro) and stayed invisible. When nurse Peter is talking to Simone, he sorta looks back to where Peter is standing, but there's nothing there. At this point, it still seems as though it's a dream sequence.

But then Deveaux can talk to him and even speaks as though it's not a dream. He says that invisibility is something he would have liked.

But then, when HRG finds Peter, it confuses the issue. If Peter had travelled back in time, then HRG wouldn't have been able to find him until he travelled back.

So Perhaps Peter's "dream" ability is coupled with time travel.

As for Mohinder's dream state, that was initiated by the Indian kid, Sanjog Iyler. I can't quite remember if Mohinder could interact with other people in his dream state, not including Sanjog.

I think they are a little different.

ft

Color me underwhelmed. Sooooo many inconsistencies, even for this show. As someone else mentioned, when Candice is knocked unconcious, why didn't she revert to her fat, ugly self? We never found out what the heck the Linderman Group wanted to blow up the city for, what their big plan was all about, and how they managed to recruit Nathan into it. And then Nathan, who had apparently bought into the whole shebang, has a sudden change of heart in time to fly Peter out of there...? Aw, c'mon. Shouldn't there be a little consistency of motivation? And what happened to the big showdown between Peter and Sylar? That was pretty lame after they had been building up to it all season. And Sylar not stopping Hiro from running straight at him to stab him, even though he had seen the comic and knew it was coming?? He sure didn't have any problem stopping/reversing Parkman's bullets. It was ridiculous.

Well, this show ain't no LOST, that's for sure. But that finale even fell down as bubblegum entertainment. My wife and I both felt it was one of the weakest episodes of the series.

I'm not saying there weren't some questionable moments....but I am wondering if when Sylar saw the comic book, he realized that he would have to be stabbed, but he also was able to tap into Issac's gift and see passed that and somehow he would survive?

Some images from Sylar's eyes when he is dying:

http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/2398/heroes4pw3.th.jpg (http://img483.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heroes4pw3.jpg)

http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/5439/heroes6wx8.th.jpg (http://img483.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heroes6wx8.jpg)

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/4750/heroes5dp8.th.jpg (http://img501.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heroes5dp8.jpg)

Since, except for the last one, these images appear to be people Sylar de-brained, could it be that he was so seriously wounded that he "unlearned" some powers? That would certainly make it more interesting next season. I would hope that they would take the show in a little different direction next year, not just continue with the whole see Sylar, fight Sylar, Sylar escapes, every fifth episode. If he was weaker next year, and had to be a little more cunning to steal more powers, that could make his character more interesting again, especially with his whole need to be "special." For the record, I don't think he was dragged into the sewer, I think he managed to crawl away...

Color me underwhelmed. Sooooo many inconsistencies, even for this show. As someone else mentioned, when Candice is knocked unconcious, why didn't she revert to her fat, ugly self? Perhaps Candace's true form is the hottie we see. And she was just messin' with Micah's head.

We never found out what the heck the Linderman Group wanted to blow up the city for, what their big plan was all about, and how they managed to recruit Nathan into it. And then Nathan, who had apparently bought into the whole shebang, has a sudden change of heart in time to fly Peter out of there...? Aw, c'mon. Shouldn't there be a little consistency of motivation?Nathan was always caught between right/wrong on the bomb issue. He's a conflicted guy. In the end, he did the "heroic" thing and saved NYC. No inconsistencies there

And what happened to the big showdown between Peter and Sylar? That was pretty lame after they had been building up to it all season. And Sylar not stopping Hiro from running straight at him to stab him, even though he had seen the comic and knew it was coming?? He sure didn't have any problem stopping/reversing Parkman's bullets. It was ridiculous.I agree that the final showdown was less than satisfying. However, it was the first time that Sylar had to deal with more than one hero at the same time. He had to divert his attentions across several heros and in the end, Hiro stopped him.

I wonder what power Sylar has that allows him to take hits from SuperStrong Nikki, followed by SuperStrong Peter? Probably the same power that allows him to take bullets from Parkman, fall from high school stadiums, and stop swords with his hands.

ft

Nathan was always caught between right/wrong on the bomb issue. He's a conflicted guy. In the end, he did the "heroic" thing and saved NYC. No inconsistencies there Based on how he "saved" things, he can't (or won't) be able to take credit though.

and since when could shape shifter girl make little pint size shape shifty things(fake micah)?? If you remember 1 or 2 episodes ago when she had Micah in the hotel room and he tried to escape, she made the hallways and doorways appear such that Micah kept going in circles. When he thought he found an exit, it was the door back to her hotel room.

If nothing else, from the fact that Zachary Quinto's been signed for next season. :D


That doesn't mean he's alive. My theory is that whoever this person that molly is scared of is a very powerful person. He may have taken sylar to use him for something. Maybe he can re animate sylar for next season.

I agree that the final showdown was less than satisfying. However, it was the first time that Sylar had to deal with more than one hero at the same time. He had to divert his attentions across several heros and in the end, Hiro stopped him.


multitasking isn't a problem for Sylar. As shown in this episode when he managed to hold Ando in the air and read a comic and hold Peter in the air and control bullets. When Hiro attacked him there were no other threats, he wasn't concentrating on anything else.

Previously when Peter was attacked by Sylar he fought back with ease. Throwing Sylar across the room. On that occasion he was also having his head sliced open at the same time!

This time around Peter did nothing so it's not just Sylar who was ineffective. Tim Kring kind of neutered both of them in this episode.

Hi Five dude... :D

and why was Claire so afraid to shoot Peter?...I'm assuming that shooting him was just to knock him out of exploding.

and since when could shape shifter girl make little pint size shape shifty things(fake micah)??


Claire was afraid to shoot peter because he would have died. He couldn't control his powers at that point and claire new that. Once he was shot there was no regenerating because of no control.

Yes...Sylars 'base' power was the ability to figure out how things work, which means that after he figures out the 'brains' of other Heroes and the power within, he also figures out how it works and how to use it. In short, he gains an almost immediate mastery of the power, probably a greater mastery than the hero who originally possessed it to begin with!

and if Sylar is dead, then what exactly he did with the brains to obtain that info dies with him.

Did he eat them to absorb the DNA? Did he put them under a microscope to analyze the neurons? Did he find the area of the brain labeled "special abilities section" and read the instructions?

We may never know.

multitasking isn't a problem for Sylar. As shown in this episode when he managed to hold Ando in the air and read a comic and hold Peter in the air and control bullets. When Hiro attacked him there were no other threats, he wasn't concentrating on anything else.

Previously when Peter was attacked by Sylar he fought back with ease. Throwing Sylar across the room. On that occasion he was also having his head sliced open at the same time!

This time around Peter did nothing so it's not just Sylar who was ineffective. Tim Kring kind of neutered both of them in this episode.
I can see this viewpoint, however I want to present a rebuttal.

Since the previous Peter/Sylar showdown (in Mo's apartment), both Peter and Sylar have gained more powers. With Peter being stronger and presumably more controls over those powers, he should be more difficult for Sylar to "choke". Perhaps it took more concentration for Sylar to control Peter, which allowed for Hiro to get in an attack.

As for controlling Ando and reading a comic, that's shouldn't be too difficult. I'd hardly call that multitasking.

ft

Claire was afraid to shoot peter because he would have died. He couldn't control his powers at that point and claire new that. Once he was shot there was no regenerating because of no control.

but that goes back to the earlier argument about whether healing is a passive ability or not. If he needs to control it, then he is dead, because he wouldn't have survived the explosion.

and if Sylar is dead, then what exactly he did with the brains to obtain that info dies with him.

Did he eat them to absorb the DNA? Did he put them under a microscope to analyze the neurons? Did he find the area of the brain labeled "special abilities section" and read the instructions?

We may never know.


Yeah he was part zombie so he most likely ate them. :D

That doesn't mean he's alive. My theory is that whoever this person that molly is scared of is a very powerful person. He may have taken sylar to use him for something. Maybe he can re animate sylar for next season.
I agree. However, in a show where time travel is so easy for some, being dead or alive has to be taken in the context of "when".

BTW, the funniest line of the night goes to my wife. When Hiro teleports from Japan back to the US, he does so with less facial strain.

My wife says, "Looks like Hiro is getting better at that. It doens't look like he's straining to take a dump anymore."

but that goes back to the earlier argument about whether healing is a passive ability or not. If he needs to control it, then he is dead, because he wouldn't have survived the explosion.

Just my opinion. The lack of control would only last until the explosion. The release of energy would let him use his powers again. So one the boom happens he is able to regenrate.

Perhaps it took more concentration for Sylar to control Peter, which allowed for Hiro to get in an attack.

Sylar wasn't controlling Peter when Hiro attacked. Sylar wasn't focused on anything. Peter was just sitting in the background trying to get it together.

As for controlling Ando and reading a comic, that's shouldn't be too difficult. I'd hardly call that multitasking.

Peter can't do it yet. He was still using one power at a time. Or no powers at a time in this case.

I agree. However, in a show where time travel is so easy for some, being dead or alive has to be taken in the context of "when".

BTW, the funniest line of the night goes to my wife. When Hiro teleports from Japan back to the US, he does so with less facial strain.

My wife says, "Looks like Hiro is getting better at that. It doens't look like he's straining to take a dump anymore."

What makes that even better is I thought the same thing but when they get back to Japan and Ando says "you look bad ass" he's takin a dump again.

Sylar wasn't controlling Peter when Hiro attacked. Sylar wasn't focused on anything. Peter was just sitting in the background trying to get it together.
OK, maybe I mis-remembered this scene. Let's chalk it up to creative liscence.


Peter can't do it yet. He was still using one power at a time. Or no powers at a time in this case.You're right. I can't think of any time where Pete uses two powers at the same time.

ft

If you can't survive a piece of glass puncturing the base of your brain stem - how the hell do you come back from being vaporized?

Just my opinion. The lack of control would only last until the explosion. The release of energy would let him use his powers again. So one the boom happens he is able to regenrate.
Then how do you explain him regenerating after he died? Not sure how hard you can concentrate when you're dead...

If you can't survive a piece of glass puncturing the base of your brain stem - how the hell do you come back from being vaporized?

I asked that question a few weeks ago. ;) Got a lot of argument about how Peter's healing ability would take care of it, or how he's somehow able to protect himself against the explosion. Obviously, a nuclear explosion which reduces one to atoms would not be something you can come back from....

But, nevertheless, we'll see the Brothers Petrelli again next season, I'll wager.

And will someone please explain just what Linderman and his buddies' plan was?? Does anybody, including Tim Kring, even know? I can't believe they went the whole season and never explained it. :rolleyes:

If you can't survive a piece of glass puncturing the base of your brain stem - how the hell do you come back from being vaporized? Claire has the ability to survive and regenerate while Peter only seems to have the ability to regenerate (at this point). Did the writers miss that ??

Claire has the ability to survive and regenerate while Peter only seems to have the ability to regenerate (at this point). Did the writers miss that ??
they covered that. when she "died" after the attempted rape by the quarterback she had a tree branch stuck in the same spot. as soon as it was removed, she came back to life. Same with peter, he had a chunk of glass stuck in the back of his head, and as soon as it was removed he came back too. Then he mentioned to claire that he knew about the one spot they needed help recovering from... As long as the back of the head is kept safe, and nothing is telling us that the explosion would vaporise him, perhaps it emanates from his hands and shoots outward, i don't see why he wouldn't survive.

what i am interested in seeing is the eclipse part... what does this symbolize

what i am interested in seeing is the eclipse part... what does this symbolize

That must be the power that Kensai has - to cause an eclipse and thus frighten your enemies into submission. ;) Perhaps he was the first one with superpowers, or some such.

But at the end she should have reverted to her "real" self. She hinted that the beautiful woman was not her "real" appearance either, that she was in reality fat or something. I was expecting to see that true appearance when she lost consciousness! ;)


Ditto I expected her to be much larger once she passed out.

HTH Hiro goes to 1671 is just crazy but to top it off, the eclipse happens, WOW. MIKE4HDTV, can ya get shots of the samurai's? I think one might be Hiro's faja...

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/2624/heroes11uo5.th.jpg (http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heroes11uo5.jpg)

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/3281/heroes12by4.th.jpg (http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heroes12by4.jpg)

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/2952/heroes13og0.th.jpg (http://img514.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heroes13og0.jpg)

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/6679/heroes14ti8.th.jpg (http://img508.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heroes14ti8.jpg)

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/7645/heroes15ax9.th.jpg (http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heroes15ax9.jpg)

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9844/heroes16qb9.th.jpg (http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heroes16qb9.jpg)

lets go through the list of surviving heroes

Candice
DL
Nikki/Jessica
Molly
Claire
Sylar???
Micah
Hiro

non heroes
Ando
Noah(Mr Bennett)
Mom Petrilli

Man that has a huge disappointment. This show is starting to be a big let down. It would be nice to see 'Heroes' actually do something instead of walk around, talk, walk around. Sounds a lot like the Ring Trilogy, walk, more walking, fight, walk some more, have we finished walking?....

I believe Parkman is still alive. He was seen going into the ambulance at the end of the show.

Hugely disappointed. When you put a guy like Sylar down, one of the first things you do afterwards is cut off his head and make julianne (sp?) fries out of it.
And, that whole fly off into space thing was weak. Either show us that they die or show us that they were clever and Peter blew up in space and then came back down safely.




Mitch

Disapointing, other than the few moments with Hiro and Ando. I didn't understand why Claire was going with Mother Petreli. I don't even really understand why Nathan was so willing to go along with the bomb thing. All I can guess is that she has some weird brain-cloud power or something. The show-down was lame. After the huge build-up from the future episode fight scene that we saw a brief glimpse of, we got... not much.

As for Peter returning... again, has Ted ever been affected by his own powers? Hasn't seemed to have been. So why can't Peter let loose the nuke and be just fine? Nathan though... he's atoms. And good riddence.

Parkman should be dead. He took what, like 8 bullets to the chest? They even had him look dead at the end with Mohinder, only to then turn around and be alive when he was loaded into the ambulance.

Sylar was a bit disapointing as well. Not quite sure why Hiro was able to run at him like that. Should have stopped him dead cold.

And finally, for the "really evil" guy who presumably got Sylar to the sewers... I know the truth. It's Tzimisce! (sorry, if you've ever played any of White Wolf's Vampire games you will get the joke).

All in all... I was underwhelmed.

As a Heroes episode, it was enjoyable but far from one of the best, as the finale should be:

A few problems other than the myriad ones already mentioned…

Why didn’t Missy Peregrym’s character “shift” back into her natural self? Not that I’m complaining about what she did turn back into. ;)

What was Parkman thinking? “Sure Sylar has all those abilities, but I can READ MINDS and SHOOT A GUN…he doesn’t stand a chance!”

The whole episode just seemed small…not “epic” at all. NYC looked empty most of the time! Did everybody know about the “bomb” already?

Speculation: Sylar was dragged off by something with, among other things perhaps, healing ability. I’d like to see Nathan back as well, maybe he tossed Peter and flew away before the explosion.

And will someone please explain just what Linderman and his buddies' plan was?? Does anybody, including Tim Kring, even know? I can't believe they went the whole season and never explained it. :rolleyes:

wasn't it just to get someone in power that Linderman had control over to push his agenda? As he had abilities as well, I'm guessing that it was to control those who would be a threat to him as we saw in the future flash. I think I preferred the plot line of the original pilot, were there was an actual bomb in play. It was more unimaginative but it made more sense than the Peter as a bomb thing.

The disappearance of Sylar and Nathan does leave the way open for Sylar to still eliminate Illusion girl and take Nathan's appearance. So the future could still work out in similar fashion.

Someone or something (more than likely the entity Molly talked about) dragged Sylar into the sewer. I don't think he is alive.

Here is what the writers and show's creator said about Sylar next season.

Sylar will definitely be back. He became to popular and was such an interesting bad guy they decided to keep him around next season to be a villian again.

All things considered, I was kind of underwhelmed also... and for some of the reasons I've already seen mentioned: Why didn't "illusion girl" turn into her "real" self unless she was just lying about that... Why did Nathan have to fly Peter away and why did he decide to do that anyway? Why wouldn't Claire shoot Peter, since presumably he would be able to come back from that, at least as far as she knew? Why would Nikki try to fight Sylar when she doesn't know him from Adam and DL was still hurt? Why was Sylar so "easy" to kill after all the build-up?

'Course we have the blood trail and the "magic" cockroach perhaps to explain Sylar... and presumably Peter survived... but there is almost no reasonable way to have Nathan survive that.

Also... Peter started to lost control earlier, but passed out... and while unconscious he didn't explode and when he came back again he was fine... so just knocking him out there at the end would have cured the whole exploding thing without the need to fly into space!

And just why did he lose control anyway? He had been controlling Ted's powers for a little while... why lose control there?

It also looks like Molly and Mohinder are buddies for life, since it seems she needs constant transfusions... seems like her power and disease are one in the same to some degree.

Not a bad show... just kind of anti-climactic after the whole-season lead-up.. and a few inconsistencies.

wasn't it just to get someone in power that Linderman had control over to push his agenda? As he had abilities as well, I'm guessing that it was to control those who would be a threat to him as we saw in the future flash.


Well, what was his agenda? They never explained it. First, he was a good guy in Vietnam (from the comics), who didn't want to kill the village people. Then, he becomes a bad guy, a vicious mobster. Then, he's a good guy, curing Nathan's wife, and talking about how he used to fight evil and save the world with his band of brothers. Then, he's an evil guy again, wanting to get Niki to kill DL, and these are people he's nurtured for years. I have no doubt if he hadn't been killed (waaaaay too easily, I might add), he would have been a good guy again in his next scene. :rolleyes:

And, again, what was the plan?? To destroy New York (and how is saving it saving the whole world?), kill millions of people, and....... do what? Just to put Nathan in the White House like a more morally upstanding version of Rudy Julianni? For what purpose? All they would have to do is get Micah to fix the voting machines nationally, a la Diebold. None of this makes any sense. The characters change their motivations faster than their underwear. What did I ever see in this show, anyway? :confused::rolleyes:

Loved the episode. I don't think there where inconsistencies like some people pointed out, it all seemed to fit right in.

Nice end scene. It was never suppose to be a battle between like the Matrix, they never said that. It was Peter vs. Sylar. I liked how some heroes tried to help, pretty cool.

Peter wouldn't die from the explosion, just like Ted never would. He isn't harmed by his power. That is why when his hands glow and begin to radiate, but then he stops it, there are no after effects. IT DOESN'T HURT HIM.

We don't know what happened up there. Maybe Nathan flew Peter up there, dropped him and flew away and then Peter exploded and now Peter can fly away that its over. Maybe Nathan will come back scarred and disfigured from being so close to the radiation when he was flying with Peter, who knows.

Actually the only thing I didn't like was that Hiro didn't keep the sword. I thought it was cool he had a sword that had the symbol on it, just seemed to fit.

Also loved how the end scene came together just like in Peter's dream along time ago when he first invisioned himself exploding. It was so cool, Claire running up, Nathan coming, pretty good.

I wonder what that power is that Peter got from Simone or her dad, to speak to the dead but its more then that because he over heard a conversation back then. Hmmmm.

Well, what was his agenda? They never explained it. First, he was a bad guy, a vicious mobster. Then, he's a good guy, curing Nathan's wife, and fighting evil and saving the world with his band of brothers. Then, he's an evil guy again, wanting to get Niki to kill DL, and these are people he's nurtured for years. I have no doubt if he hadn't been killed (waaaaay too easily, I might add), he would have been a good guy again in his next scene. :rolleyes:

And, again, what was the plan?? To destroy New York (and how is saving it saving the whole world?), kill millions of people, and....... do what? Just to put Nathan in the White House like a more morally upstanding version of Rudy Julianni? For what purpose? All they would have to do is get Micah to fix the voting machines nationally, a la Diebold. None of this makes any sense. The characters change their motivations faster than their underwear. What did I ever see in this show, anyway? :confused::rolleyes:

Huh? They explained all that. By having the explosion, there goal was that Nathan would then become president and thus able to do what he wanted. They went into detail on the whole plan. Since not everyone uses voting machines maybe they couldn't fix the vote. Plus we vote for the congressman, but we don't elect the president by votes, the electoral college does, so it wouldn't matter if all the voting machines where fixed.

Linderman was in a group trying to do good. It didn't work, so he turned to this phase where he blurs the line between what is good and not to get the agenda done. He healed Nathan's wife, not as a good gesture, but to have more leverage over them, to have them wanting to repay him.

With Nathan as president, they can then inact their extermination of people with powers, take the ones they want and use them to their end, etc. etc. The whole goal was to get him into the white house and make him someone the people can trust, to look to as a hero that they need.

Why would Nikki try to fight Sylar when she doesn't know him from Adam and DL was still hurt?

That's a good point. Has Nikki/Jessica ever even seen Sylar OR Peter before?

If not, the fact that she would just step into a fight like that (with, as you said, DL laying unconscious) is extremely incongruous.

There were lots of incongruous things in this episode though, too bad for a season finale since this was one of my favorite shows this season.

Huh? They explained all that. By having the explosion, there goal was that Nathan would then become president and thus able to do what he wanted. They went into detail on the whole plan. nd make him someone the people can trust, to look to as a hero that they need.

Oh, yeah? Detail? Please, do tell. Just what was the plan, the agenda, the final goal? And when did they discuss it? Musta' missed that part.

Certainly, Nathan wouldn't have agree to it initially (so he could change his mind at the last minute, of course) if they told him: we want you to be President so that you can do our bidding, but we actually aren't going to tell you what that bidding will be, except we want to kill more people with powers, or something. It just doesn't make any sense. Just as the murky motivations of the Company didn't make any sense, as well as how they were able to get mutants to agree to kill other mutants - again, for what end? And, while I know it's a show about superheroes, the overall plotline, the overall motivations of the characters, have to make some kind of logical sense. None of it does.

And, again, what was the plan?? To destroy New York (and how is saving it saving the whole world?), kill millions of people, and....... do what? Just to put Nathan in the White House like a more morally upstanding version of Rudy Julianni? For what purpose? All they would have to do is get Micah to fix the voting machines nationally, a la Diebold. None of this makes any sense. The characters change their motivations faster than their underwear. What did I ever see in this show, anyway? :confused::rolleyes:

In the future flash, the explosion is the catalyst that enables fake Nathan to make the control of the mutants a priority without repercussion. Linderman never seemed a straight good guy or bad guy to me. Just a manipulator. By healing Nathan's wife he has a bargaining chip to play. He convinces Nathan that going along with it would be a good for him and there is always the chance he could also take his wife's ability to walk if he doesn't.

Stopping the explosion alters events that would change the world. The mutants would never be persecuted or rebel or cause events to play out badly.

Claire was afraid to shoot peter because he would have died. He couldn't control his powers at that point and claire new that. Once he was shot there was no regenerating because of no control.


Then how does he survive a nuke going off from inside (which he will), but he can't survive a bullet to the head?

Besides, Claire couldn't have killed him from that angle. She would have to have shot him in the back of the head, same place as the glass shard.

Then how does he survive a nuke going off from inside (which he will), but he can't survive a bullet to the head?

thinking back, Peter wouldn't explode. Peter radiates energy. It builds up in him like a capacitor and then emanates from his body. He wouldn't explode in pieces, but the energy he releases would.

Enjoyed the ep...

Yes, we were cheated once again of the badass brawl between Peter and Sylar (apparently they are saving that one for next season). But the fight did accomplish one thing: it got all the Heroes in one place at the same time and gave them a common enemy to fight. Good place to build for next season.

thinking back, Peter wouldn't explode. Peter radiates energy. It builds up in him like a capacitor and then emanates from his body. He wouldn't explode in pieces, but the energy he releases would.


Exactly. Same as Ted. Ted doesn't explode when this happens so neither will peter.

Oh, yeah? Detail? Please, do tell. Just what was the plan, the agenda, the final goal? And when did they discuss it? Musta' missed that part.

Certainly, Nathan wouldn't have agree to it initially (so he could change his mind at the last minute, of course) if they told him: we want you to be President so that you can do our bidding, but we actually aren't going to tell you what that bidding will be, except we want to kill more people with powers, or something. It just doesn't make any sense. Just as the murky motivations of the Company didn't make any sense, as well as how they were able to get mutants to agree to kill other mutants - again, for what end? And, while I know it's a show about superheroes, the overall plotline, the overall motivations of the characters, have to make some kind of logical sense. None of it does.

I thought this was pretty simple. It's almost exactly like the comic Watchmen. The theory being that having a few million people die will unite the remaining people, creating a more peaceful, unified country. That's all the pro-bomb people meant. They wanted to cause a tradgedy so that they could forge a brighter future. Twisted, yeah, but pretty simple when you think about it.

In fact, if you read the Heroes graphic novel, it shows where Linderman picked this "sacrifice a few to save many" philosophy from: Peter and Nathan's dad.

I'm not sure how I felt about the episode. The final showdown was pretty lame, and the storyline seemed pretty inconsistent (I'm not going to rehash what people have already said). But what do you guys think about the volume 2 preview...it has me interested.

I wonder what that power is that Peter got from Simone or her dad, to speak to the dead but its more then that because he over heard a conversation back then. Hmmmm.
I posted some of my thoughts on this (Post 4320).

I've speculated that Mr. Deveaux has some sort of dream power. Peter gets those dreams after signing up as Deveuax's nurse. I've called it "pre-cog dreaming".

As for last night's sequence, it certainly seemed like Peter travelled back in time and space to the day he started as Deveaux's nurse. He was invisible the whole time, but Deveuax somehow sensed him.

The only wrinkle to this theory is that if he really did time travel, then HRG wouldn't have found him lying on the street.

So maybe Peter can somehow do a sort of "spirtual" time travel where his physical body stays put. Maybe that's why his dreams are so vivid. He is actually in the future, but only his spirit.

ft

I’m pressed for time at the moment, and there’s a lot of interesting discussion here, so let me offer my thoughts on just a couple of things quickly, concerning Linderman, and I’ll try to get back this afternoon for the criticism. ;)

Archiguy, you seem absolutely incensed about a couple of things regarding the plot, as if they were a personal insult. Some of it isn’t quite as justified as it may seem, so let me make this quick. This isn’t all that different from ‘Lost’ where we haven’t gotten much more than Magical Mystery Tour explanations to justify where it is supposedly heading, and are chastised for not ‘just enjoying the ride’. The only distinguishing factor is that Lost’s creators keep giving us a representation that it won’t turn out to be total fantasy BS at the end, even though we’re 3 years into the series, and the question to ‘real’ answer’ ratio is probably somewhere around 50–1.
Well, what was his agenda? They never explained it. First, he was a good guy in Vietnam (from the comics), who didn't want to kill the village people. Then, he becomes a bad guy, a vicious mobster. Then, he's a good guy, curing Nathan's wife, and talking about how he used to fight evil and save the world with his band of brothers. Then, he's an evil guy again, wanting to get Niki to kill DL, and these are people he's nurtured for years. I have no doubt if he hadn't been killed (waaaaay too easily, I might add), he would have been a good guy again in his next scene. :rolleyes:

And, again, what was the plan?? To destroy New York (and how is saving it saving the whole world?), kill millions of people, and....... do what? Just to put Nathan in the White House like a more morally upstanding version of Rudy Julianni? For what purpose? All they would have to do is get Micah to fix the voting machines nationally, a la Diebold. None of this makes any sense. The characters change their motivations faster than their underwear. What did I ever see in this show, anyway? :confused::rolleyes:

1) This is pure guesswork, at this point, so please don’t kill the messenger. ‘What happened to the whole Linderman plot’ with blowing up New York this season. I think what happened was that Heroes became a much bigger hit than expected. I don’t think Sylar was supposed to be the headline villain this season, but rather a lead-in to the Linderman Conspiracy, but once they realized Sylar’s popularity, decided to extend his story line out this year, and save the L.C. kicker for next season, as due to Linderman’s involvement, it will probably tie in well with the ‘Generations’ plotline.

2) ‘What the hell was the L.C. supposed to be about anyway, cause they never explained it? Well, I think (1) above affected that, and I’ve got an idea what it might be thanks to what little they have told us, and something my nephew gave me to read a while back; but to mention it (assuming its even remotely correct) would be so huge a spoiler that they’d send Jessica after me, and it wouldn’t be for purposes of pleasuring me.

I thought I had dropped a hint to what I’m talking about as one line in a post a ways back; but perhaps I didn’t, but it should provide at least a minimum jumping off point: the old expression: ‘The enemy of my enemy is my friend.’

Edit: Now that I went to post this, I see I’ve wasted my time as Union0015 has already shot the proverbial load. No good deed goes unpunished. Sigh. :(

________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

One season and done for me!
Extremely disappointing ending

Well I have to agree that the showdown was weak. I remember them saying the season ender "wouldn't" disappoint in the action department...what the? I think Heroes needs a bigger budget, because I've been disappointed with "a lot" (meaning not all) of the special effects and fighting sequences throughout the season...they're worse than that lame show "Mutant X" was. That "string theory" episode really highlighted how low-budget this show is--the fighting was incredibly lame and the scene between Sylar and Peter was a joke--LOL they flashed lights outside a door and had Mohinder act like there some some serious power being used, I just shook my head. Plus they keep using the same locations for shots, and try to give them some significance, but it just comes off as "this is the only place we can afford to shoot" As for the story, I think a lot of you are right about certain inconsistancies with motives, use of powers, and whatnot--it just got sloppier and stopped making sense. I hope they get a huge budget for next season and simplify their plot a bit--try a simple "cause and effect" style plot, instead of that jumbled up mess that had a lot of things happen that made NO SENSE, just so a person could be stopped from going "BOOM"....here's hoping.

btw, i believe peter is alive for one reason.... in five years gone, peter states he was the bomb. Of course he survived it. Now nathan sacrificed himself to save others... So nathan is dead...

lets go through the list of surviving heroes
Mom Petrilli...
I believe there was a reference made to powers that she had. Or at least the possibility.

And will someone please explain just what Linderman and his buddies' plan was?? Does anybody, including Tim Kring, even know? I can't believe they went the whole season and never explained it. :rolleyes:
I believe this will be explored in Volume 2:Generations. After all, they've already established that the idea (aka Linderman's plan) came about after a fall-out between a previous generation of heroes that were once operated under a united goal. Once we learn more about them, I think we'll learn more about how this shaped things for the future.
------
As far as Sylar, I believe he'll return next season, in some form or another. As someone pointed out, the cockroach that we saw when Sylar was being held at Primatech, we saw again at the end of the episode. I believe this either represents Sylar close to death (but not dead) OR it could be another character who steps in at those times, perhaps to stop Sylars death. Maybe the one Molly referred to.

I liked the eclipse at the end of the epside (beginning of Volume 2). I knew this had yet to be explained - I mean, we see it during every episode, but it had never been put in perspective. I believe that the eclipse symbolizes the beginning (and maybe the cause) of the "genetic mutation/evolution" that brings the Heroes into being.

Parkman should be dead. He took what, like 8 bullets to the chest? They even had him look dead at the end with Mohinder, only to then turn around and be alive when he was loaded into the ambulance.
Sylar threw the bullets back at Parkman, but there is no indication that he threw them at the same velocity as a 9 mm gun. So presumably the explanation is that Parkman will have a bunch of shallow bullet wounds which broke the skin and chest wall, but did not do the damage that getting hit with 3+ bullets would.

As for Parkman going after Sylar by himself, it has been well established that Parkman is not that bright. He failed his detective exam several times, he was considered a second rate cop, he let Eric Roberts sneak up & put a gun to his head despite being able to read minds and so on.

I enjoyed the season finale, but this show has loose ends and plot gaps all over the place. Some of them will presumably be explained next season (or in the 3rd or 4th seasons), but the whole premise that by blowing part of NYC, Nathan - a newly elected freshman congressman - could use that to get elected President makes no sense. Freshman congressman are at the bottom of the pecking order and would have little to do with any rescue or leadership roles. There is this whole bit about Micah rigging of the election that has major plot holes. The election results would be way off from the exit polls which would trigger a whole series of investigations by the news media and the other party. Of course, maybe the plan was that the bomb/Peter would go off which would destroy much of his district and distract everyone from that issue.

But this is a show where people can fly, become invisible, walk through walls, travel through time. Comic book politics and comic book science.

Yeah I think some of us get mixed up in maybe going too far with the analysis. Although some of those plot holes are big enough to drive a mack truck into.

I also don't think Nathan is dead. I feel like he could have easily flown up pretty high, pushed peter further and then sped off before detonation. I fully expect to see him back next season at some point.

At the beginning of next year, maybe we'll discover that Parkman was wearing a bullet-proof vest and only a couple bullets got through...

I think that Sylar definitely has/had the power of distraction - the way that Peter and Bennett couldn't see him until he was right behind them.

Curious to see whether Peter has the scar next year - I was thinking the blast might have damaged his face to the point that it couldn't heal properly. I know that Peter and Ted don't seem to be hurt by using the power but we never saw Ted go completely nuclear.

Sylar was a bit disapointing as well. Not quite sure why Hiro was able to run at him like that. Should have stopped him dead cold.


I was thinking the same thing. He learned all of these maneuvers from his dad only to run at him with a sword from 100yds away. Made me think of Austin Powers when he's getting ready to drive over a guard with a roller-compactor -'Noooooooo.....', 'Get out of the way', '....Nooooooooooo......'

Sylar was probably woozy from getting hit with a parking meter and punched in the face

Made me think of Austin Powers when he's getting ready to drive over a guard with a roller-compactor -'Noooooooo.....', 'Get out of the way', '....Nooooooooooo......'

Perfect comparison.

Here's what I would have liked to have seen:

Peter going invisible and using that to get some close up punches and TK throws in.
Sylar throwing Pete around a few times.
In the middle of fighting Parkman fires a few rounds off which Sylar fires back as we saw.
Sylar distracted, Peter uses that to his advantage and flies through the air and gets Sylar in a stranglehold.
Close to winning, Pete's anger takes over and he starts to radiate.
Desperate to control it he lets go of Sylar and staggers away.
Sylar grabs the parking meter and is about to beat down on Peter when Nikki jumps in.
Nikki gets a few good blows in until Sylar grabs her arm and starts to use his freeze power, which instantly brings her down screaming.
Cue Micah shouting "mom .... nooooooo!"
Regaining his composure Sylar stands up still holding the screaming Nikki, and starts to open her skull ...

everything seems lost until Hiro reappears directly behind Sylar, sword in hand.
"this is for Charlie and Mr Isaac." says Hiro
Sylar turns ...
Hiro strikes ...

Perfect comparison.

Here's what I would have liked to have seen:

Peter going invisible and using that to get some close up punches and TK throws in.
Sylar throwing Pete around a few times.
In the middle of fighting Parkman fires a few rounds off which Sylar fires back as we saw.
Sylar distracted, Peter uses that to his advantage and flies through the air and gets Sylar in a stranglehold.
Close to winning, Pete's anger takes over and he starts to radiate.
Desperate to control it he lets go of Sylar and staggers away.
Sylar grabs the parking meter and is about to beat down on Peter when Nikki jumps in.
Nikki gets a few good blows in until Sylar grabs her arm and starts to use his freeze power, which instantly brings her down screaming.
Cue Micah shouting "mom .... nooooooo!"
Regaining his composure Sylar stands up still holding the screaming Nikki, and starts to open her skull ...

everything seems lost until Hiro reappears directly behind Sylar, sword in hand.
"this is for Charlie and Mr Isaac." says Hiro
Sylar turns ...
Hiro strikes ...
If THAT had been the ending no one would be complaining here...

VisionOn...You should be a writer for Heroes.

HOLY CRAP! That was the greatest, most phenomenal, mind-boggling.................................................... ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ............................................................ ....letdowns of all time. :(

I posted some of my thoughts on this (Post 4320).

I've speculated that Mr. Deveaux has some sort of dream power. Peter gets those dreams after signing up as Deveuax's nurse. I've called it "pre-cog dreaming".

As for last night's sequence, it certainly seemed like Peter travelled back in time and space to the day he started as Deveaux's nurse. He was invisible the whole time, but Deveuax somehow sensed him.

The only wrinkle to this theory is that if he really did time travel, then HRG wouldn't have found him lying on the street.

So maybe Peter can somehow do a sort of "spirtual" time travel where his physical body stays put. Maybe that's why his dreams are so vivid. He is actually in the future, but only his spirit.

ft

I haven't read all the posts here so sorry if this has been said, but didn't this exact same thing happen to Mohinder when he was back in India hearing the conversations between his mother and father, seeing himself as a child, etc? Does that mean that he has powers, too?

Yeah I think some of us get mixed up in maybe going too far with the analysis. Although some of those plot holes are big enough to drive a mack truck into.

I also don't think Nathan is dead. I feel like he could have easily flown up pretty high, pushed peter further and then sped off before detonation. I fully expect to see him back next season at some point.

I also considered that Nathan could have thrown Peter and flew to safety, but wouldn't he have been pretty ravaged by the radiation at that point. Remember how Claire looked when she came out of the house after calming down Ted. I don't believe there's anyway Nathan could have survived his actions. As for Peter, I agree with the idea that the explosion emanates from him, but he does not actually explode. After the explosion he falls to earth and begins healing.

I enjoyed the opening to Volume 2, and we know where (and when) Hiro will start next season, but I am curious as to how much time will pass for the rest of the characters when season 2 starts. Will it pick right up, or flash forward several months. Remember, the events of last night were supposed to take place the day after the election, so early November 2006. If they pick up season 2 in real time, they could set it nearly a year later.

We know from the "5 years later" episode that Peter can go full nuclear and survive, so there's no reason to think he won't be back next year. Nathan, I think, won't be so fortunate. (Even though his death seemed pretty avoidable and made no sense...why didn't Claire shoot Peter instead????)

I had always assumed Peter got his scar battling Sylar, but now we know that isn't the case. It must happen later; no way is that a scar from the explosion. His face was sliced or gashed, not burned.

I'm in the "underwhelmed" category regarding the finale, for most of the reasons that have already been discussed on the thread. But I'm interested to see what happens next season. I had decided halfway through one of the early episodes that the show wasn't that interesting to me and I wasn't going to watch it anymore, and then that episode ended with future Hiro visiting Peter on the train. That was such a neat scene, I got sucked into watching it the rest of the way. I feel like the same thing happened after the rather anticlimactic finale: I had decided I probably wouldn't watch season two. But then we saw Hiro in feudal Japan and now I'm interested all over again. Good ending. I'm wondering if Hiro will actually turn out to be the legendary hero from the fable that he likes.

VisionOn...You should be a writer for Heroes.

I don't know how they couldn't have ended it with something like that. Even if it was with a cliche (but crowd pleasing) "this is for ..." payoff line. After all the talk around the internet about who would win in a fight and the glimpses we've seen in the other episodes that hinted at a great smack down it seemed obvious to me what people were expecting.

Perfect comparison.
everything seems lost until Hiro reappears directly behind Sylar, sword in hand.
"this is for Charlie and Mr Isaac." says Hiro
Sylar turns ...
Hiro strikes ...

VisionOn, YES!!!

Even if everything and had gone down like it did, but Hiro said the line you wrote, it would've launched the episode from a D+/C- to a B-.

"This is for Charlie and Mr. Issac." Cheesy, but perfect.

I haven't read all the posts here so sorry if this has been said, but didn't this exact same thing happen to Mohinder when he was back in India hearing the conversations between his mother and father, seeing himself as a child, etc? Does that mean that he has powers, too?
Kind of, sort of.

When Mohinder was in India, the dream sequence he was experiencing was due to the Indian kid, Sanjog Iyler. If I recall correctly, Mohinder couldn't interact with the dream environment and was basically a fly on the wall.

In Peter's situation, he actually interacted with Deveuax, which leads me to believe that this was different. It could be "spiritual time travel" (as opposed to Hiro's physical time travel) or it could be "interactive dreaming". Maybe it'll be explained, maybe not.

In either case, I think that it's a manifestation of Deveaux's powers, whatever that may be.

ft

Sylar threw the bullets back at Parkman, but there is no indication that he threw them at the same velocity as a 9 mm gun. So presumably the explanation is that Parkman will have a bunch of shallow bullet wounds which broke the skin and chest wall, but did not do the damage that getting hit with 3+ bullets would.

Parkman shot four bullets at Sylar. Sylar stopped the bullets and threw them back at Parkman. Parkman's shirt is full of blood.

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/6223/heroes17dy3.th.jpg (http://img514.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heroes17dy3.jpg)

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/2419/heroes19yb9.th.jpg (http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heroes19yb9.jpg)

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/708/heroes18fm1.th.jpg (http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heroes18fm1.jpg)

We know from the "5 years later" episode that Peter can go full nuclear and survive, so there's no reason to think he won't be back next year. Nathan, I think, won't be so fortunate. (Even though his death seemed pretty avoidable and made no sense...why didn't Claire shoot Peter instead????)



Why didn't Peter just fly away himself....no need to get Nathan killed.....

Parkman shot four bullets at Sylar. Sylar stopped the bullets and threw them back at Parkman. Parkman's shirt is full of blood.



I wouldn't call that full of blood. Esp for 4 bullets. DL was bleeding worse from the one he got from linderman.

I wouldn't call that full of blood. Esp for 4 bullets. DL was bleeding worse from the one he got from linderman.
More blood than if he had been wearing a bulletproof vest. Which would be none.

Has anyone mentioned that when Hiro first travel back in time to witness the explosion, it was daytime when it occured, but in last nights eps it was night time when Peter exploded?

I thought the ending was perfectly fine. It was never meant to be a huge brawl between Sylar and Peter.

As for Peter, I agree with the idea that the explosion emanates from him, but he does not actually explode. After the explosion he falls to earth and begins healing.


That's how I look at it. I don't think there's any indication that he would physically explode. Maybe just a giant release of power from him.

The episode was good. Answered a few questions and brought up new ones for next season.

I though Claire was going to break her arm trying to hold up that .45 one handed. :p

So did everyone just turn around while Sylar crawled/was dragged away?

As for Parkman going after Sylar by himself, it has been well established that Parkman is not that bright. He failed his detective exam several times, he was considered a second rate cop, he let Eric Roberts sneak up & put a gun to his head despite being able to read minds and so on.


:D

Good point(s), I can accept that...

Speaking of Parkman, if the poor guy wasn't dead from all the gunshot wounds, he would've been from the rough treatment he got while being put in the ambulance. Did y'all see how they jostled him? They hit every bump on the way.

Perfect comparison.

Here's what I would have liked to have seen:

Peter going invisible and using that to get some close up punches and TK throws in.
Sylar throwing Pete around a few times.
In the middle of fighting Parkman fires a few rounds off which Sylar fires back as we saw.
Sylar distracted, Peter uses that to his advantage and flies through the air and gets Sylar in a stranglehold.
Close to winning, Pete's anger takes over and he starts to radiate.
Desperate to control it he lets go of Sylar and staggers away.
Sylar grabs the parking meter and is about to beat down on Peter when Nikki jumps in.
Nikki gets a few good blows in until Sylar grabs her arm and starts to use his freeze power, which instantly brings her down screaming.
Cue Micah shouting "mom .... nooooooo!"
Regaining his composure Sylar stands up still holding the screaming Nikki, and starts to open her skull ...

everything seems lost until Hiro reappears directly behind Sylar, sword in hand.
"this is for Charlie and Mr Isaac." says Hiro
Sylar turns ...
Hiro strikes ...

Great writing. Can I make one small change?

Sylar turns..
Hiro tries to strike but Sylar catches the blade..
Hiro's future self appears and strikes.....and vanishes as if he never existed.

I know. It doesn't work. But fewer holes than some things that have happened.

Why didn't Peter just fly away himself....no need to get Nathan killed.....

I don't know if Peter's powers are controlled enough for him to 'try to stop from blowing up' and flying away at the same time.


Besides, Nathan needed to do that, for his own sake. I don't think he would've let Peter fly away alone any how. Especially after all the crap that Nathan put Peter through about everything...

I thought it was a very well done episode. It closed the chapter well, and gave a neat 'sneak peak' to next season and where Hiro ends up - Anyone think that Hiro is actually the samurai he had his father read about to him every night as a child?

It was emotional and heartfelt. Powerful and soft.

Plenty of characters overcame their adversities.

I also fully expected to see a shot of Grandma Petrelli screaming (like the villainess she appears to be) "NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!" with rage when Nathan scoops Peter up into the sky to explode.

I don't know how they couldn't have ended it with something like that. Even if it was with a cliche (but crowd pleasing) "this is for ..." payoff line. After all the talk around the internet about who would win in a fight and the glimpses we've seen in the other episodes that hinted at a great smack down it seemed obvious to me what people were expecting.


I'm sure the writers had some great ideas that would have made us all applaud from our sofas. I'll even bet a small sum that one of the first of those ideas was a two hour finale. I am almost 100% sure that those controlling the purse strings laughed them out of the conference room.

It is NBC, after all. They spent all of their money on NFL coverage. :)

I like the show, but count me among the disappointed.

(From Marc Berman’s Tuesday, May 22, 2007, Programming Insider column and blog at Mediaweek.com )
http://pifeedback.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63310451/m/55210535

“…NBC’s Heroes closed season one first in both total viewers (13.21 million) and adults 18-49 (6.1/15) at 9 p.m., with growth out of lead-in Deal of No Deal of 3.55 million viewers and 103 percent among adults 18-49. Second was the first hour of the expanded season-finale of The Bachelor: An Officer and a Gentleman on ABC at 12.46 million viewers and a 4.3/11 among adults 18-49. The second half of Fox’s expanded 24 season-opener averaged 11.04 million viewers (#4) and a third-place 4.0/10 among adults 18-49. Overall, the two-hour telecast of 24 averaged a disappointing 10.19 million viewers and a 3.7/10 in the demo from 8-10 p.m. Comparably, that trailed it’s year-ago season-finale (Viewers: 13.75 million, A18-49: 5.5/14 on Monday, May 22, 2006, based on the final nationals) by a hefty 3.56 million viewers and 27 percent among adults 18-49….”

• Source: Nielsen Media Research data

Has anyone mentioned that when Hiro first travel back in time to witness the explosion, it was daytime when it occured, but in last nights eps it was night time when Peter exploded?

I thought the ending was perfectly fine. It was never meant to be a huge brawl between Sylar and Peter.

I guess if it did end with a huge brawl between Peter and Sylar, it would have been leaning more towards X-Men instead of the more dramatic tone it tends to take.

I've seen it theorized that the bullets didn't completely enter parkman, but were moving just fast enough to break the skin and thats where the blood is coming from, but hes not actually in any danger of not living. I think I side with that thinking.

So, next year's episodes we're going to see giant mutant gators climbing out of the NYC sewers?

Also, at the end I thought for sure after showing Hiro and the grass they were going to pan up the camera to a fire breathing dino like in Isaac's painting's (maybe next season;)).

Also, at the end I thought for sure after showing Hiro and the grass they were going to pan up the camera to a fire breathing dino like in Isaac's painting's (maybe next season;)).

Me too! Especially after Hiro commenting about jumping through time and possibly becoming lunch for a T-rex in another episode.

Even though we saw that prophecy fulfilled in the museum, I was expecting that to be a red herring.

So, next year's episodes we're going to see giant mutant gators climbing out of the NYC sewers?

Also, at the end I thought for sure after showing Hiro and the grass they were going to pan up the camera to a fire breathing dino like in Isaac's painting's (maybe next season;)).

Was the dino really fire-breathing? I thought it just showed fire in the background, like volcanos and such.

Anyway, lots of people have suggested that they expected to see this in that scene...I think y'all are forgetting that we've already seen that scene...when Hiro was in the museum and looked up to see the dinosaur there. I think there were even fake volcanos in the background too.

I also considered that Nathan could have thrown Peter and flew to safety, but wouldn't he have been pretty ravaged by the radiation at that point. Remember how Claire looked when she came out of the house after calming down Ted. I don't believe there's anyway Nathan could have survived his actions. As for Peter, I agree with the idea that the explosion emanates from him, but he does not actually explode. After the explosion he falls to earth and begins healing.

I enjoyed the opening to Volume 2, and we know where (and when) Hiro will start next season, but I am curious as to how much time will pass for the rest of the characters when season 2 starts. Will it pick right up, or flash forward several months. Remember, the events of last night were supposed to take place the day after the election, so early November 2006. If they pick up season 2 in real time, they could set it nearly a year later.

I think Nathan does die. We know from looking at the future that Sylar has absorbed the Linderman girl's morphing ability to change into another person, so Sylar must kill her and take that to morph into Nathan. And as Nathan was not in the future episode, can we assume he is dead?

When we say Hiro in the future, he was a hardened warrior, so travelling back to Kensei's time makes absolute sense. Who better to train him?

As to Peter's scar, it sure looks like a sword slash, wouldn't you say?

I too thought Hiro was going to come face to face with the T-Rex. That must happen when he leaves 1600 Japan?

I'd like to know who Molly was talking about when she said there was one person she couldn't find because he could see her. A new super villian! goodee!

I think Nathan does die. We know from looking at the future that Sylar has absorbed the Linderman girl's morphing ability to change into another person, so Sylar must kill her and take that to morph into Nathan. And as Nathan was not in the future episode, can we assume he is dead?

When we say Hiro in the future, he was a hardened warrior, so travelling back to Kensei's time makes absolute sense. Who better to train him?

As to Peter's scar, it sure looks like a sword slash, wouldn't you say?


I believe the season finale established pretty clearly that the future is not set in stone, because events took place differently in this episode then the ones that were portrayed to have occurred in the future episode (i.e. the bomb did not wipe out NYC). Thus, you can't look at the future events and use those to infer what might happen in the present. Everything revealed in that future episode is pretty much irrelevant now because the timeline has been significantly changed.

Don't forget to check out the graphic novel this week. It shows the final fate of one of the characters and is actually a pretty good story.

I'm pretty sure that NBC is going to be continuing the novels throughout the summer. Hopefully this is the case. I already know that they are planning on releasing behind-the-scenes videos throughout the summer.

I think Nathan does die. We know from looking at the future that Sylar has absorbed the Linderman girl's morphing ability to change into another person, so Sylar must kill her and take that to morph into Nathan. And as Nathan was not in the future episode, can we assume he is dead?

When we say Hiro in the future, he was a hardened warrior, so travelling back to Kensei's time makes absolute sense. Who better to train him?

As to Peter's scar, it sure looks like a sword slash, wouldn't you say?
That future doesn't happen anymore, since the bomb never went off. So none of the stuff we saw in that episode is real. Not anymore.

I too thought Hiro was going to come face to face with the T-Rex. That must happen when he leaves 1600 Japan?
That already happened in the museum, as pointed out elsewhere in this thread.

I'd like to know who Molly was talking about when she said there was one person she couldn't find because he could see her. A new super villian! goodee!
It's definitely a great setup for next season.

Everything revealed in that future episode is pretty much irrelevant now because the timeline has been significantly changed.
There is ONE important take-away from the future episode: We know Peter can survive his own nuclear detonation. In light of last evening's episode, I'd say that's pretty relevant. ;)

But on any specific plot point, yeah, the future isn't predetermined.

Like the dinosaur shot, we're also getting lots of questions about Peter's "scar."

The only reason Peter had the scar in that timeline is because he had never come into contact with Claire.

Since "our" Peter has come into contact with Claire, it's impossible for him to now get any type of scar.

Like the dinosaur shot, we're also getting lots of questions about Peter's "scar."

The only reason Peter had the scar in that timeline is because he had never come into contact with Claire.

Since "our" Peter has come into contact with Claire, it's impossible for him to now get any type of scar.


Thats a good catch. I didn't even think about that.

Like the dinosaur shot, we're also getting lots of questions about Peter's "scar."

The only reason Peter had the scar in that timeline is because he had never come into contact with Claire.

Since "our" Peter has come into contact with Claire, it's impossible for him to now get any type of scar.

This is incorrect. In the future episode's timeline, Peter had come into contact with Claire. Remember, Hiro jumped into the future more than mid-way through this season after most of the current timeline's events had taken place (such as Peter meeting Claire). I'd guess that Peter still gets his scar in an episode next season, but it would be entirely feasible if he didn't. I remember somebody commenting that the writers had come up with a plausible explanation for how Peter got his scar, and it wouldn't make sense for them to have even come up with that back story if they were never going to reveal how he got it.

Peter could always absorb Candice's ability and decide that he wants people to see a scar on his face. :D

The scene of Nikki/Jessica beating up Candice reminded me of some old Star Trek: OS scene where, a good time after she' s knocked out her illusion finally goes away.

I thought it would have been cooler if her illusion went away before she hit the ground. Just my opinion.

VisionOne's ending would have had me standing and cheering! Instead I was seated and hollow :(

For those who think Peter's coming back, as I've maintained several times this year, there is no place for Peter in this series as it now stands, because he makes all the others superfluous, and they might as well change the name of the show to 'Hero" (although Jet Li may be a little PO'd) and we've got a one-man band, which is going to be a bitch for the dialog writers.

They've got only three alternatives for Peter:

1) The nuclear explosion affected his DNA make-up (fill-in your choice of psuedo-science here), and either the number of his powers or the...uhmm.. 'power' of his powers have become extremely limited;

2) Have him do a 'Phoenix' number after a few eps and send him to outer space;

3) Kill him.

This is why Nathan should more likely return, simply because his power fails to overwhelm his teammates, and actually is one of the cooler effects on the show.

________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

VisionOne's ending would have had me standing and cheering! Instead I was seated and hollow :(

Agree 100% on both counts.

This is incorrect. In the future episode's timeline, Peter had come into contact with Claire. Remember, Hiro jumped into the future more than mid-way through this season after most of the current timeline's events had taken place (such as Peter meeting Claire).

No, that is incorrect. The entire reason that Peter goes to Texas (to meet Claire) is because Hiro met him on the subway and told him to do so. He had never met her before that.

Remember "Save the cheerleader, save the world?" That's where it was first stated.

Okay, problems I had with last night. They aren't big, but they make no sense to me.

1) Not a single person noticed Sylar either dragging himself away or being dragged into a manhole? Even if they were preoccupied watching Peter blow up, wouldn't someone eventually see Sylar was gone and say something? Instead Mr. Bennett and Claire are talking about where they are gonna live.

2) They are in New York City, yet there wasn't a single person to be found on those streets. Peter runs out of the parking garage, no one around. Claire jumps out the window, no one around. Everyone is gathered in the square for the showdown, no one is around.

3) Since it's obvious that Candice doesn't look like what we have seen, wouldn't it stand to reason that if she was knocked unconscious that she would go back to her original form and not the illusion she has created?

2) They are in New York City, yet there wasn't a single person to be found on those streets. Peter runs out of the parking garage, no one around. Claire jumps out the window, no one around. Everyone is gathered in the square for the showdown, no one is around.


I commented on this same thing earlier in this thread. It was like everyone in NYC was warned about the "bomb" and hightailed it out of town as a result. All the streets were empty.

It actually gave the episode a real "Matrix" like feel because it didn't feel real as NYC at all.

Okay, problems I had with last night. They aren't big, but they make no sense to me.

1) Not a single person noticed Sylar either dragging himself away or being dragged into a manhole? Even if they were preoccupied watching Peter blow up, wouldn't someone eventually see Sylar was gone and say something? Instead Mr. Bennett and Claire are talking about where they are gonna live.


I'm still wondering what all the cops were doing there. There's two dead bodies (one with a hole in his head!), a body stuffed in a chest, a shooting victim in the middle of the plaza shot by his own gun, all of the heroes were trespassing on Linderman's property, a blood trail leading to the sewer ...

that's a hell of situation to explain.

No, that is incorrect. The entire reason that Peter goes to Texas (to meet Claire) is because Hiro met him on the subway and told him to do so. He had never met her before that.

Remember "Save the cheerleader, save the world?" That's where it was first stated.

Right, but the jump to the future takes place after the warning and Claire has been saved the second time around (she's in hiding remember). Which is why Future Hiro is still confused that Sylar exploded when he didn't have regeneration ability and should have died from Hiro's sword.

Future Hiro doesn't know that Peter is responsible for the blast.

I was letdown by the finale as well. I understand the budget limitations but they didn't need expensive FX and action, just strong drama. They did a great job building up to the finale so expectations were high. But anyway, strong first season for the show overall...

So Sylar will return because the character was popular? I don't get it... he is a very good villain but you want villains to die!

If having an object stuck in the brain would keep Peter and Claire dead, wouldn't going nuclear vaporize the brain to the point of being unusable. Or maybe it makes Peter more powerful, beyond the limitations of the body... like Obi Wan after Vader killed him.

Right, but the jump to the future takes place after the warning and Claire has been saved the second time around (she's in hiding remember). Which is why Future Hiro is still confused that Sylar exploded when he didn't have regeneration ability and should have died from Hiro's sword.


She's in hiding, but where did we see that Peter had met her in that timeline? I don't recall it, and he obviously doesn't have the healing ability (re: his scar) so it's fair to say that it's not shown because it didn't happen in that timeline.

She's in hiding, but where did we see that Peter had met her in that timeline? I don't recall it, and he obviously doesn't have the healing ability (re: his scar) so it's fair to say that it's not shown because it didn't happen in that timeline.
You're making assumptions about what happened off screen and presenting them as fact. Due to the theory of time travel they're using, Hiro would've gone back and talked to Peter, and Peter DID go back and save Claire in the future timeline we saw. There is either an alternate explanation for the scar or it's just a continuity error.


More than likely the early reference to Peter's scar wasn't planned out, but after they referenced it in the early episode they put it in the future episode so people wouldn't say "Hey! Hiro said Peter had a scar!"

She's in hiding, but where did we see that Peter had met her in that timeline? I don't recall it, and he obviously doesn't have the healing ability (re: his scar) so it's fair to say that it's not shown because it didn't happen in that timeline.

it's not shown but it's discussed. Present Hiro tells Future Hiro that Peter did save Claire as a result of the warning and Future Hiro is confused as to why it didn't fix everything. We talked about the scar back when the episode aired because it didn't fit in then either. I remember someone theorizing that the sword could be special in that it can actually harm the heroes permanently and the scar is a result. Or something like that.

Heroes is a refreshingly creative series. I thought the conclusion to Book One was just fine. This is a gigantic, sprawling story with many recurring characters and an equal number of story lines, just like real life – sort of. :) Thus, it should come as no surprise that the final episode did not wrap up all the loose ends in a neat bow. Anybody looking for either neatness or logic should probably consider a series other than Heroes.

I didn’t start watching Heroes until the past few weeks, so I recorded and watched the reruns Sci-Fi showed over the weekend. Sci-Fi didn’t show all of the old shows after I started watching, so there are five or six episodes that I have not yet seen. Anyway, I have developed a feel for the show and, as noted earlier, I like it.

I thought that Sylar somehow revived enough to crawl into the storm sewer after Hiro ran him through. After all, he is a very strong guy. I enjoyed the cockroach scuttling next to the manhole in the shot showing the open manhole cover. Didn’t somebody say in an earlier episode that in some ways the cockroach is nature’s most highly evolved creature? Maybe Sylar figured a way to morph himself into a cockroach for the time being.

I really like Hiro, the most unlikely of all superheroes. He is a loveable, funny, charming fellow. In one episode, after looking at a painting Isaac had made of him, he remarked that he thought it was a fair representation but that his face was not so round. Funny stuff. Masi Oka, the actor who plays Hiro is 32 but to me he usually looks about 19.

it's not shown but it's discussed. Present Hiro tells Future Hiro that Peter did save Claire as a result of the warning and Future Hiro is confused as to why it didn't fix everything. We talked about the scar back when the episode aired because it didn't fit in then either. I remember someone theorizing that the sword could be special in that it can actually harm the heroes permanently and the scar is a result. Or something like that.

Fair enough, as I don't recall it being discussed in that episode at the moment.

Present Hiro could say that Peter did save Claire in his timeline. But he's clearly not in that same timeline when he meets future Hiro.

I guess it just makes sense to me that Peter meeting Claire wasn't shown because it didn't happen, and also agrees with the fact that he has a scar as a result.

You're making assumptions about what happened off screen and presenting them as fact.

No, actually I'm making no assumptions about what is being shown off screen...others are making assumptions though by saying that Peter must've met Claire "but it wasn't shown."

Conversely, in my view, if it wasn't shown, it didn't happen. But as stated above it may have been explicitly stated and I just am not remembering that episode correctly.

Fair enough, as I don't recall it being discussed in that episode at the moment.

Present Hiro could say that Peter did save Claire in his timeline. But he's clearly not in that same timeline when he meets future Hiro.

I'm not going to try and explain how that works out in the timeline because it makes me dizzy.

You can get a recap of the explanation scene in the episode online:

http://www.nbc.com/Video/rewind/full_episodes/heroes_04.shtml?show=heroes20

Luckily it's in the opening segment so you don't have to go through them all.

Heroes is a refreshingly creative series. I thought the conclusion to Book One was just fine. This is a gigantic, sprawling story with many recurring characters and an equal number of story lines, just like real life – sort of. :) Thus, it should come as no surprise that the final episode did not wrap up all the loose ends in a neat bow. Anybody looking for either neatness or logic should probably consider a series other than Heroes.


I don't think that most people are upset because the show wasn't resolved with a neat bow on top...instead, we're bothered by the rampant inconsistancies in the episode and the general feeling that the finale was a letdown (when compared to some of the previous blockbuster episodes like "String Theory").

I'm not going to try and explain how that works out in the timeline because it makes me dizzy.

You can get a recap of the explanation scene in the episode online:

http://www.nbc.com/Video/rewind/full_episodes/heroes_04.shtml?show=heroes20

Luckily it's in the opening segment so you don't have to go through them all.

Okay, thanks...I get tired of talking about it too because there are so many different takes on Time Travel...it can make you dizzy. :)

I don't think that most people are upset because the show wasn't resolved with a neat bow on top...instead, we're bothered by the rampant inconsistancies in the episode and the general feeling that the finale was a letdown (when compared to some of the previous blockbuster episodes like "String Theory").
Indeed, that’s why I also said in support of my opinion that the finale was just fine, “Anybody looking for either neatness or logic should probably consider a series other than Heroes.” :)

A) - Heros is a good entertaining show, but let's face it, ...
it's closer to the league of a "Buck Rogers, or the Original Battlestar Galactica", vs say, a "Lost" or Star Trek TNG".
Too many inconsistancies, cute little kids, writing that seems either weak, or simply that there is little to no overall "outline" or arc to follow, & many things are being made up as the move along ...

B) - Hopefully the show runners , now that it's a hit, will tighten up the story arcs/outline for the series & it will get better ..

C) - "Heroes: Origins" !! .. Give me a break, can I vote on my fruit loops cereal box & Nick at nite too, for a new Heroes character? .....

D) - Hiro in the 1600's seemed like no big deal to me, there was no indication from events in the finale that he was "stuck", & he should be able to just squeeze out a log & teleport away ( :) )
That being said, the horseman they focused on looked a lot like Sulu ....
Peter being alive is a reasonable assumption, however it would be harder to explain his brother ... Just flying into space should have killed him, since there was no indication he had powers to survive in either a vaacum or extreme temps ... let alone a nuke blast.....
Does Syler absorb powers from non brain cut openers, or just from people he killed??

Without re-writing the whole episode, If the horseman pulled down the scarf to reveal Hiro's father, & if Peter landed in a big hole in the street, on top of Syler......that would have helped.

Indeed, that’s why I also said in support of my opinion that the finale was just fine, “Anybody looking for either neatness or logic should probably consider a series other than Heroes.” :)

Except for the fact that nearly every other episode this season had quite a bit more "logic and neatness" than the finale did. ;)

for me the season finale was fitting and excellent.....this isnt freaking neo vs smith.... remember... this is ordinary people with extraordinary abilities... Peter didnt have training in combat and how to use his powers in combat.....its almost like watching a regular street fight... now if this was five years gone time, then we would expect it because they would have trained that long for this... peter barely knows how to handle his powers...sylar on the other hand didnt steal the brain of an expert in combat....

I don't think that most people are upset because the show wasn't resolved with a neat bow on top...instead, we're bothered by the rampant inconsistancies in the episode and the general feeling that the finale was a letdown (when compared to some of the previous blockbuster episodes like "String Theory").

go back and watch that "blockbuster" episode...it too was very weak. They tried to give it that matrix feel, but it was sooooo low-budget it was sort of embarrassing. The action was downright laughable (very slow), and I had to look away at Jessica's "dancing"--that was painful to see...and don't get me started on the "special fx".

Oh that scar? yeah it was out of place, but they needed it to show how hardened Peter had become..."it's been a long time since I had a good fight" :rolleyes: IT JUST DIDN'T MAKE SENSE BECAUSE HE WOULD HAVE HEALED IN THAT NEW TIMELINE....DUH!!!

They really need to up the production and simplify their plot or they will just stumble all over themselves again next season...

Everybody really needs to read NBC's NOVELS (http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/novels/novels_library.shtml/) graphic novels as they answer a lot of the questions being brought up in the thread.

go back and watch that "blockbuster" episode...it too was very weak. They tried to give it that matrix feel, but it was sooooo low-budget it was sort of embarrassing. The action was downright laughable (very slow), and I had to look away at Jessica's "dancing"--that was painful to see...and don't get me started on the "special fx".


I know what you're saying, but compared to this finale, that episode (and a few others) were "blockbuster" in almost all areas.

Everybody really needs to read NBC's NOVELS (http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/novels/novels_library.shtml/) graphic novels as they answer a lot of the questions being brought up in the thread.

I've just read them all up to the current chapter (33) and I'm not sure what answers you're seeing that I'm not...

Yeah it would be nice if they spent a bit more on the production budget for this show. Some cooler effects could go a long way for this kind of show.

I'm not sure what else NBC is tossing money behind, but Heroes definitely seems worth it.

I happen to like Heroes a great deal, and do not consider it to be in the 'same league', nor as pandering and/or stupid, as a Buck Rogers or the first BSG.

That being said, this show has some flaws and they need to be addressed in the second season. I'm willing to forgive them the first season as going through the settling-in process, because I can't recall any previous prime-time network super-hero team drama offhand, so they're breaking new ground. OTOH, they clearly need to get more organized and focused.

I remember hearing at one time, or seeing in this thread, that Heroes has a number of writers (not sure if their free-lance or employees) and unfortunately, it shows. Heroes needs a better defined and consistent 'tone'. On one hand, the multi-character format makes things easier because they get to cut from character to character quickly when the pace slows down, and the characters require minimal dialog. OTOH, they have to be cohesive, to create a whole which is much more than the sum of its parts.

And its fine to push toward more of a 'fantastic' or sci fi direction, but not at the cost of losing the grounding which the 'straight' fiction component provides, and this balance must be preserved by integrating those two disparate qualities carefully, in order to hang onto the adult audience with those wonderful demographics.

But as this isn't solely a drama, but rather an 'adventure-drama', I agree with the critics here that the producers have got to bite the bullet, and beef-up the sfx and stunt work to provide legitimacy to the 'adventure' aspect.

Its not like NBC has so many great hits currently, that they can afford to let a potential 'great' hit like Heroes wither on the vine.

___________________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

I happen to like Heroes a great deal, and do not consider it to be in the 'same league', nor as pandering and/or stupid, as a Buck Rogers or the first BSG.

That being said, this show has some flaws and they need to be addressed in the second season. I'm willing to forgive them the first season as going through the settling-in process, because I can't recall any previous prime-time network super-hero team drama offhand, so they're breaking new ground. OTOH, they clearly need to get more organized and focused....."
While I mentioned it being "closer" to Buck Rogers & BSG1", than "Lost", I agree it is not as pandering or stupid as Buck rogers ect ... & I do enjoy & watch it as well, & feel most of your critisisms are basically in sync w/ mine ....
I am also willing to "forgive" the 1st season flaws, provided, as I posted, that the show runners & writers "tighten up" the writing & story arcs in the next season .. I think we both are a little worried that this is as good as it's going to get ... I want this show to get BETTER, because it has so much potential ..
I'm afraid that the whole "origins" vote thing, & NBC marketing dept, could possibly send this series down the "Hiro & Mica" dolls in the KMart toy aisle" path, & this could prevent the show from reaching it's potential .... I hope not.

I'm afraid that the whole "origins" vote thing, & NBC marketing dept, could possibly send this series down the "Hiro & Mica" dolls in the KMart toy aisle" path, & this could prevent the show from reaching it's potential .... I hope not.

They are damned if they do and damned if they dont'. The hiatus KILLED them this year, but at the same time their viewers are b*tching and moaning about repeats...

We'll see how it pans out...it has potential if done correctly...

the "Hiro & Mica" dolls in the KMart toy aisle" path

That's a scary, and very possible, thought.

Perfect comparison.

Here's what I would have liked to have seen:

Peter going invisible and using that to get some close up punches and TK throws in.
Sylar throwing Pete around a few times.
In the middle of fighting Parkman fires a few rounds off which Sylar fires back as we saw.
Sylar distracted, Peter uses that to his advantage and flies through the air and gets Sylar in a stranglehold.
Close to winning, Pete's anger takes over and he starts to radiate.
Desperate to control it he lets go of Sylar and staggers away.
Sylar grabs the parking meter and is about to beat down on Peter when Nikki jumps in.
Nikki gets a few good blows in until Sylar grabs her arm and starts to use his freeze power, which instantly brings her down screaming.
Cue Micah shouting "mom .... nooooooo!"
Regaining his composure Sylar stands up still holding the screaming Nikki, and starts to open her skull ...

everything seems lost until Hiro reappears directly behind Sylar, sword in hand.
"this is for Charlie and Mr Isaac." says Hiro
Sylar turns ...
Hiro strikes ...

Perfect, that's what everybody was probably looking for. would that have been so hard or expensive to pull off? :mad:

Yep, that would've been just about perfect...and more in line with the rest of the season...

Does anyone read any other Heroes boards and can comment if our opinion of this episode is more widespread? I wonder if we just expect too much.

They are damned if they do and damned if they dont'. The hiatus KILLED them this year, but at the same time their viewers are b*tching and moaning about repeats...

We'll see how it pans out...it has potential if done correctly...

Why can't they go back to the good old fashion way? A season of new episodes, one week after another with just a couple of breaks for holiday specials. Then a block of reruns during the summer. Anyone who wants to, can catch up on shows they missed. Those who don't like repeats can go play softball and drink beer. When Autumn is back, the new season, with all new episodes returns.

Here's what I would have liked to have seen:

Peter going invisible and using that to get some close up punches and TK throws in.
Sylar throwing Pete around a few times.
In the middle of fighting Parkman fires a few rounds off which Sylar fires back as we saw.
Sylar distracted, Peter uses that to his advantage and flies through the air and gets Sylar in a stranglehold.
Close to winning, Pete's anger takes over and he starts to radiate.
Desperate to control it he lets go of Sylar and staggers away.
Sylar grabs the parking meter and is about to beat down on Peter when Nikki jumps in.
Nikki gets a few good blows in until Sylar grabs her arm and starts to use his freeze power, which instantly brings her down screaming.
Cue Micah shouting "mom .... nooooooo!"
Regaining his composure Sylar stands up still holding the screaming Nikki, and starts to open her skull ...

everything seems lost until Hiro reappears directly behind Sylar, sword in hand.
"this is for Charlie and Mr Isaac." says Hiro
Sylar turns ...
Hiro strikes ...

While the show is great (one of, if not the best on TV right now) and I applaud the creators for giving this to us, you have to wonder if the writers truly understand what the fans want sometimes.

This scenario is absolutely perfect and wouldn't have cost much more in their supposed "limited budget."

Why can't they go back to the good old fashion way? A season of new episodes, one week after another with just a couple of breaks for holiday specials. Then a block of reruns during the summer. Anyone who wants to, can catch up on shows they missed. Those who don't like repeats can go play softball and drink beer. When Autumn is back, the new season, with all new episodes returns.

That I wouldn't mind....but what had been happening with some show is that there'd be a new one, then 3 repeats, then 2 new, then 2 repeats....that is way more annoying.

Yep, that would've been just about perfect...and more in line with the rest of the season...

Does anyone read any other Heroes boards and can comment if our opinion of this episode is more widespread? I wonder if we just expect too much.

I read a few. TV Guide and 9th Wonders all have a share of people who were very disappointed with the Peter/Sylar showdown. As did the Boston Globe:

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/living/articles/2007/05/22/superpowers_can146t_save_145heroes146_finale/

New York Post thought it was fair:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/05222007/tv/explosive_finish_tv_adam_buckman.htm

According to the EW interview, next season is going to be two volumes, instead of just one arc.

While the show is great (one of, if not the best on TV right now) and I applaud the creators for giving this to us, you have to wonder if the writers truly understand what the fans want sometimes.

This scenario is absolutely perfect and wouldn't have cost much more in their supposed "limited budget."

I listened to the commentary and the end fight had to be filmed over 5 nights with some awkward restrictions. So even what they had was not particularly easy for them to pull off. That said, it was still massively anticlimactic.

Make sure to read http://gregbeeman.blogspot.com/ tomorrow, which will probably provide some better insight into why it ended the way it did.

What a disappointing final when the previous episode was so good.

My prediction is that Peter and Nathan are both fine. Peter probably finds the power to fly himself and Nathan flies away safely. Peter didn't seem to be at the stage that Ted was in Claire's house so I don't think Nathan got hurt.

I listened to the commentary and the end fight had to be filmed over 5 nights with some awkward restrictions. So even what they had was not particularly easy for them to pull off. That said, it was still massively anticlimactic.

Your scenario doesn't contain much more SFX or difficult shots - it's almost identical shots with a better sequence attached.

Since, except for the last one, these images appear to be people Sylar de-brained, could it be that he was so seriously wounded that he "unlearned" some powers? That would certainly make it more interesting next season. I would hope that they would take the show in a little different direction next year, not just continue with the whole see Sylar, fight Sylar, Sylar escapes, every fifth episode. If he was weaker next year, and had to be a little more cunning to steal more powers, that could make his character more interesting again, especially with his whole need to be "special." For the record, I don't think he was dragged into the sewer, I think he managed to crawl away...
I just rewatched that part a few times and thought about T2 when it was melting. didnt see anyone they showed him killing.

Your scenario doesn't contain much more SFX or difficult shots - it's almost identical shots with a better sequence attached.

That's what I was thinking. Just a few tweaks to liven it up that would show that they were at least trying to fight each other. It doesn't seem that much extra to me either, but maybe they had a reason. But, seriously, how hard is it to do an invisibility effect! :)

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/2624/heroes11uo5.th.jpg (http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heroes11uo5.jpg)

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/3281/heroes12by4.th.jpg (http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heroes12by4.jpg)

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/2952/heroes13og0.th.jpg (http://img514.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heroes13og0.jpg)

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/6679/heroes14ti8.th.jpg (http://img508.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heroes14ti8.jpg)

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/7645/heroes15ax9.th.jpg (http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heroes15ax9.jpg)

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9844/heroes16qb9.th.jpg (http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heroes16qb9.jpg)
Thanks.

I think Kensei might be Hiro's ancestor if not father. Either way makes sense for "Generations" to start like that.

lets go through the list of surviving heroes

Candice
DL
Nikki/Jessica
Molly
Claire
Sylar???
MicahHiro
Hiro

non heroes
Ando
Noah(Mr Bennett)
Mom Petrilli
Mom Petrelli is a Hero, just dont know what she does yet...
The Haitian
Claude
Hana
Claire's Mom
Takei

Hana


Hana's not coming back. Read the graphic novels to know more. I would post the title here but it's kind of a spoiler, and kind of not.

http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/novels/novels_library.shtml

I think Kensei might be Hiro's ancestor if not father.
More likely the ancestor, or ancestral spirit, than father. Didn't Sulu say something last week before they started dueling, about Hiro being like some ancestor reborn, which they had been waiting for? Gotta check if I still have that one on the DVR.


________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

I posted before reading the last 2, I've been reading all along. :rolleyes: ;)
So no Hana... wasnt a big deal anyway

luv the last page, will def be making a poster
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/hiphop2478/heroes.gif

More likely the ancestor, or ancestral spirit, than father. Didn't Sulu say something last week before they started dueling, about Hiro being like some ancestor reborn, which they had been waiting for? Gotta check if I still have that one on the DVR.
yeah def ancestor. they have a LEGACY.

dont know with commercials but without it starts at the 18min mark :cool:

Hana's not coming back. Read the graphic novels to know more. I would post the title here but it's kind of a spoiler, and kind of not.

http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/novels/novels_library.shtml

I wouldn't necessarily assume that the title is accurate.

They kind of gave it the impression that Peter travelled back in time (a la Hiro) and stayed invisible. When nurse Peter is talking to Simone, he sorta looks back to where Peter is standing, but there's nothing there. At this point, it still seems as though it's a dream sequence.

But then Deveaux can talk to him and even speaks as though it's not a dream. He says that invisibility is something he would have liked.

But then, when HRG finds Peter, it confuses the issue. If Peter had travelled back in time, then HRG wouldn't have been able to find him until he travelled back.

So Perhaps Peter's "dream" ability is coupled with time travel.

As for Mohinder's dream state, that was initiated by the Indian kid, Sanjog Iyler. I can't quite remember if Mohinder could interact with other people in his dream state, not including Sanjog.

I think they are a little different.

ftThe ability seems to be the same, except Simone's dad is dead (or is he?), and the kid is alive (or is he?).






Not a single person noticed Sylar either dragging himself away or being dragged into a manhole? Even if they were preoccupied watching Peter blow up, wouldn't someone eventually see Sylar was gone and say something?Candace dragged him away under the guise of an illusion.....? She worked for the company that wants the little girl dead. Maybe she teamed up with Sylar; they have something in common now.


Since it's obvious that Candice doesn't look like what we have seen, wouldn't it stand to reason that if she was knocked unconscious that she would go back to her original form and not the illusion she has created?Like someone said previously, perhaps she was simply messin' with Micah's head....

Like "Lost", I thought the character development in the earlier portions of the season was much more interesting and enjoyable. I guess I was expecting too much for a "mere" TV show to give me the spectacular ending that I was hoping for. Actually, I thought the third part of the Season 1 was a bit disappointing as the supposed "build-up" to the finale was not that engaging.

BTW, I think the 17th-century shogun that Hiro sees is actually played by Mr. Takei (well, at least the unmasked portion looked like him).

Hong.

Hana's not coming back. Read the graphic novels to know more. I would post the title here but it's kind of a spoiler, and kind of not.

http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/novels/novels_library.shtml

Hana, we hardly knew ye. Literally, what'd she have, like 15 minutes of screen time the whole season? :rolleyes:

I wouldn't necessarily assume that the title is accurate.

True....the end was the beginning for her (leaving it at that)

Does anyone read any other Heroes boards and can comment if our opinion of this episode is more widespread? I wonder if we just expect too much.
everyone was disappointed by the finale,lots of grumbling at 9th Wonders,Dvd Talk,etc.

Who's Hana?

Who's Hana?

electronics girl...she gave Parkman and Ted their info on where to find HRG.

Who's Hana?

she's had more of a role in the comic books than the actual tv show...which is sad, because a) she's hot b) she's a kickass female protagonist c) she's hot

Who's Hana?
WiFi girl, she could pull electronic transmission out of the air, email, radio, etc.

I just rewatched that part a few times and thought about T2 when it was melting. didnt see anyone they showed him killing.

Charlie was def. one of the images, and he def. killed her....

There is an interesting 5 minute "behind the scenes" video on the VFX for the show that was just posted on NBC's Heroes web site:
http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/video/video_display.shtml#mea=106334

I find it fascinating that some people would like to see the show "beef up" the effects. The truth is, the show's effects, in general, are some of the most complex and sophisticated on network television, second only perhaps to Galactica. However, most of the effects are the "invisible" variety - establishing the locations of the show. Anytime the audience thinks they are seeing New York, Las Vegas, India, Montana, or any other location the show has been to, it's a visual effect. And when the scripts require more traditional "flashy" effects work, it is generally feature film quality. Claire burning and healing in the "Company Man" episode, for example, is a degree of difficulty never done on an episodic television schedule before. The show isn't a comic book movie. It's not about flashy explosions and laser beams. It's always about characters. That's what the writers want you to pay attention to.

Yep, that would've been just about perfect...and more in line with the rest of the season...

Does anyone read any other Heroes boards and can comment if our opinion of this episode is more widespread? I wonder if we just expect too much.
As someone who didn't watch Buffy and doesn't watch SG1 or BG, I had no problems with last night's finale; in fact I found it one of the most moving hours of television I've seen in a long time.

If I was going to pick it apart, I'd complain about Hiro's run at Sylar, but frankly I think Sylar was so surprised that Hiro was actually attacking him he more or less "forgot" to do anything about it. Sort of like if you're an adult and a kid comes running at you and you do nothing but the kid manages to hit you in the solar plexus, and you go down. You did nothing because you didn't consider the kid a threat. I think the same can be said here with Hiro and Sylar.

wow...the last comic of this season was really good....

We Know Hiro's father has a power.. maybe it is to live a very long time. I very much think that the warrior in the past is Hiro's father (Sulu). He did seem to repeat the story of the warrior to Hiro often and to seem to take it very personally.
Otherwise I too throw my hat in the wring of dissapointment for the finale. A let down compared to the high starndards they set for the rest of the season.. Not horrible but could have been much better.

If I was going to pick it apart, I'd complain about Hiro's run at Sylar, but frankly I think Sylar was so surprised that Hiro was actually attacking him he more or less "forgot" to do anything about it. Sort of like if you're an adult and a kid comes running at you and you do nothing but the kid manages to hit you in the solar plexus, and you go down. You did nothing because you didn't consider the kid a threat. I think the same can be said here with Hiro and Sylar.

why would he be surprised? Hiro tried to kill him twice, Sylar should have knocked him over without even thinking about it. Even if he didn't consider him a real threat, he did consider Hiro an annoyance that needed to be squashed.

Parkman ran out of the door and fired four surprise shots at Sylar, and Sylar didn't even blink. He caught and returned all the bullets while he was still holding his greatest adversary in mid-air. By the throat. Effortless.

Yet Sylar is unable to stop a small Asian man holding a big sword, running slowly toward him, from 20 feet away.

I am a bit late with my reaction, but what a lame ass ending to the season !! The editing was horrible, story telling was haphazard and only the last 5-10 minutes were anywhere near interesting. For me, the episode got killed by subpar acting skills of the cast and the crew.

Disappointed !!

On a scale of 1 -10 I'd give it a solid ---- 6. Not grab you by the throat fantastic, but kinda "Humm, OK, I guess."

The characters are fine, I care about most of them and that is saying something for a TV show. But, we need a bit more than just the characters at this point, the end of the book and season. We need over the top excitement, a no holds barred fight, after all it is a fight for the future of a million people. This sputtered out.

The first 3/4 of the show was fine, everyone was in character, doing what they should be doing. The pieces were all coming together, they all arrived at the courtyard, then duh. How exactly does Peter being told "Love" is what is needed fit into this scenario? I thought it was a Mr. Mioshi moment from the Karate Kid, where Peter was given the key to succeed, but that had nothing to do with how it all played out. Perhaps it was a set up for next year, but it sure didn't fit into this story.

It wasn't what I wanted, but I'll be looking forward to next season.

What a disappointing final when the previous episode was so good.

My prediction is that Peter and Nathan are both fine. Peter probably finds the power to fly himself and Nathan flies away safely. Peter didn't seem to be at the stage that Ted was in Claire's house so I don't think Nathan got hurt.

Well I'm not convinced that they've "saved the world" yet. As long as Sylar is still on the loose, the future that Hiro/Ando visited is still possible. IOW, they only stopped one potential "boom." ;)

Quote:
Originally Posted by petergaryr
the special effects of the crispy critter Claire were awesome.


[QUOTE=vfxproducer]
Thank you.[QUOTE=vfxproducer]

[QUOTE=vfxproducer]There is an interesting 5 minute "behind the scenes" video on the VFX for the show that was just posted on NBC's Heroes web site:
http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/video/video_display.shtml#mea=106334

I find it fascinating that some people would like to see the show "beef up" the effects. The truth is, the show's effects, in general, are some of the most complex and sophisticated on network television, second only perhaps to Galactica. However, most of the effects are the "invisible" variety - establishing the locations of the show. Anytime the audience thinks they are seeing New York, Las Vegas, India, Montana, or any other location the show has been to, it's a visual effect. And when the scripts require more traditional "flashy" effects work, it is generally feature film quality. Claire burning and healing in the "Company Man" episode, for example, is a degree of difficulty never done on an episodic television schedule before. The show isn't a comic book movie. It's not about flashy explosions and laser beams. It's always about characters. That's what the writers want you to pay attention to[QUOTE=vfxproducer]

I had to look it up, but I thought I remembered you posting something that made me think you did some of the effects on the show. I really didn't want to give the impression that all of the special effects weren't done well--most were--but when a scene called for something "badass" to happen, and it didn't happen or was done poorly, it just screamed LOW-BUDGET--not all of it is due to a lack of special effects--stunt work, fighting choreography, variety of locations, etc are just as important--and I think they should look to improve in that regard next season.

Also, I have to disagree a bit--although it's not a comic book "movie", it is a comic book "tv show"--it is about flashy explosions and laser beams when those scenes are called for, and when it's needed, we want to be impressed (like the crispy Claire effect) and not embarrassed for the entire crew of Heroes. I think it will be about characters when the acting improves, and it will as the series matures--but for now, let's face it, some of those "dramatic" scenes are hard to sit through...maybe it's the editing, I don't know, but it kind of reminds me of the star wars movies.

We Know Hiro's father has a power..
We do? I must've missed that episode...

All we know is that Sulu was part of an organization that included MANY people without powers. Not sure how we can surmise he has a power from that...

I find it fascinating that some people would like to see the show "beef up" the effects. The truth is, the show's effects, in general, are some of the most complex and sophisticated on network television, second only perhaps to Galactica. However, most of the effects are the "invisible" variety - establishing the locations of the show. Anytime the audience thinks they are seeing New York, Las Vegas, India, Montana, or any other location the show has been to, it's a visual effect. And when the scripts require more traditional "flashy" effects work, it is generally feature film quality. Claire burning and healing in the "Company Man" episode, for example, is a degree of difficulty never done on an episodic television schedule before. The show isn't a comic book movie. It's not about flashy explosions and laser beams. It's always about characters. That's what the writers want you to pay attention to.




Well said and point taken.

We do? I must've missed that episode...

All we know is that Sulu was part of an organization that included MANY people without powers. Not sure how we can surmise he has a power from that...

He has to have a power, since his son does, and they've established that powers are inherited (even if the offspring's power is different, and so far they all have been). What they haven't yet firmed up is whether it requires both parents being "powered" to produce a powered offspring, or just one. So, it's still theoretically possible that Papa Nakamura doesn't have a power, but unlikely.

Now, all that being said, I think that both Hiro and his father are both descendents of Kensei, and that he was the first superpowered hero. All are descended from him.

Now, all that being said, I think that both Hiro and his father are both descendents of Kensei, and that he was the first superpowered hero. All are descended from him.

All?

Including the american heroes? That's a really short timespan (from the 17th century to present) for all of that Japanese geneology to disappear from their appearances.

I think Kensei is definitely Hiro's ancestor though.

He has to have a power, since his son does, and they've established that powers are inherited (even if the offspring's power is different, and so far they all have been). What they haven't yet firmed up is whether it requires both parents being "powered" to produce a powered offspring, or just one. So, it's still theoretically possible that Papa Nakamura doesn't have a power, but unlikely.
That has not been established. You can speculate that one parent must have a power for the child to have a power, but it's just speculation at this point. For example, it didn't seem like Sylar's mom had any powers, although his dad may have.

For the most part, we don't know both parents of a hero. The exception being Mohinder's sister, who was alluded to having powers. Both parents don't seem to have powers.

ft

All?

Including the american heroes? That's a really short timespan (from the 17th century to present) for all of that Japanese geneology to disappear from their appearances.

I think Kensei is definitely Hiro's ancestor though.

I think 400 years of cross breeding across many nationalities can pretty much dilute strong regional traits regarding appearance. Anyway, we'll see next season. For now, that's my theory and I'm stickin' to it. ;)

He has to have a power, since his son does
Seriously, no. They have *NOT* ever established this as fact. Again, we only know of *TWO* families with inherited powers - Peter's family and Micah's family. No other hero has a lineage that we know of.

Plenty of people on this forum have concluded that to be, but we have absolutely no proof. None.

That has not been established. You can speculate that one parent must have a power for the child to have a power, but it's just speculation at this point. For example, it didn't seem like Sylar's mom had any powers, although his dad may have.

Pretty solid speculation, actually. I'm sure we'll find out more about Sylar's father next season, and he will have a power. Jury's still out on his mom.

For the most part, we don't know both parents of a hero. The exception being Mohinder's sister, who was alluded to having powers. Both parents don't seem to have powers.

Have you forgotten about the Petrelli's? Ma has some sort of power since she's part of the conspiracy, although we don't know what it is yet, and Linderman said that Pa Petrelli had a power too, although even the comic didn't hint at what it might be. We'll find out next year.

And we have also met both of Claire's parents (have you actually been watching the show?) - Nathan and Firestarter, both of whom obviously have powers.

And, of course, Micah.

Have you forgotten about the Petrelli's? Ma has some sort of power since she's part of the conspiracy
Sorry, how does A = B here?

Seriously, no. They have *NOT* ever established this as fact. Again, we only know of *TWO* families with inherited powers - Peter's family and Micah's family (and actually, Peter's family hasn't been proven either, unless it was in the comics that I missed) . No other hero has a lineage that we know of.


Another one who's so anxious to shoot down someone else's theory that they seem to have forgotten about Claire. (http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/bios/claire.shtml) Good thing the DVD set is coming out in August. :rolleyes:

Sorry, how does A = B here?

Powers are inherited. Ma Petrelli is part of the conspiracy, thus she must have a power since it's a conspiracy consisting of people who have powers. Let's try to keep up here.

I think 400 years of cross breeding across many nationalities can pretty much dilute strong regional traits regarding appearance. Anyway, we'll see next season. For now, that's my theory and I'm stickin' to it. ;)

So for that to have happened, then there would have been some inbreeding going on too. DL and Nikki/Jessica would be relatives, for one. The same with Nathan and Claire's "flaming" mom.

So for that to have happened, then there would have been some inbreeding going on too. DL and Nikki/Jessica would be relatives, for one. The same with Nathan and Claire's "flaming" mom.

Going how far back? Hundreds of years, possibly. Heck, who knows how many folks, of how many races, Thomas Jefferson sired...? There can be a lot of dilution over that long a period, and a lot of distance established between ancestors.

Another one who's so anxious to shoot down someone else's theory that they seem to have forgotten about Claire. (http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/bios/claire.shtml) Good thing the DVD set is coming out in August. :rolleyes:
I'm confused, isn't Claire part of Peter's family? Oh, then I didn't forget about her.


Powers are inherited. Ma Petrelli is part of the conspiracy, thus she must have a power since it's a conspiracy consisting of people who have powers. Let's try to keep up here.
That has not been proven. And even if it were true, who had the original power? And where did that come from?

And this conspiracy does not just consist of people who have powers. I mean, the conspiracy included Linderman and hence "the company," and many people in the company do not have powers.

C'mon archiguy, you need to keep up here.

Going how far back? Hundreds of years, possibly. Heck, who knows how many folks, of how many races, Thomas Jefferson sired...? There can be a lot of dilution over that long a period, and a lot of distance established between ancestors.

Perhaps, I guess I just don't like the theory for a number of reasons. How mobile would've this "father of all heroes" likely to have been in Feudal era Japan? Not much, I'd think.

I think it's just as likely that this eclipse event created "Heroes" all over the globe, and that Kensei is just Hiro's ancestor, and the other heroes have different ancestors.

I find it fascinating that some people would like to see the show "beef up" the effects. The truth is, the show's effects, in general, are some of the most complex and sophisticated on network television, second only perhaps to Galactica. However, most of the effects are the "invisible" variety - establishing the locations of the show. Anytime the audience thinks they are seeing New York, Las Vegas, India, Montana, or any other location the show has been to, it's a visual effect. And when the scripts require more traditional "flashy" effects work, it is generally feature film quality. Claire burning and healing in the "Company Man" episode, for example, is a degree of difficulty never done on an episodic television schedule before. The show isn't a comic book movie. It's not about flashy explosions and laser beams. It's always about characters. That's what the writers want you to pay attention to.
First, let me say that I doubt that any personal insult was intended towards you by anyone with regard to the effects. In case you haven’t realized it while purveying this thread, WE ARE ON YOUR SIDE, or more specifically , on the side of ‘Heroes’ and wish to see it succeed, purely out of self-interest because many of us like this show very much.

But let’s not confuse that desire for its success, as being at any cost. We are certainly willing to provide Coleridge’s ‘willing suspension of disbelief’, (which is probably more desperately needed by sci fi/sci fantasy than any other artistic form), but only to the extent that it imeets our needs.

Its interesting that you mention Galactica (I am a huge fan of that show as well) as a comparison. When I’m watching BSG, I am always ‘there in the moment’ with no distraction to remind me I’m in the family room or HT. Its not always the same with ‘Heroes’. Both of these shows are part of the GE/Universal networks family, and I would assume (please correct me if I’m wrong) that BSG probably has a notably smaller production budget, simply by virtue of being on basic cable, compared to ‘Heroes’ being on one of the BIG 4 networks, for which advertisers are required to pay higher revenues, which logic dictates should yield a substantially larger budget.

Why was Star Wars such a huge success? Despite what Lucas may think, it wasn’t for the pretentious mythos, but rather because everything looked real, and as a result made us feel more forgiving and susceptible to being sucked into that universe. In a program that is seeking to do not only sci-fantasy, but also embroil moral concepts, this same experience must be at the forefront.

Now you mention the vfx/cgi of placing us in different locations, and other than a completely desolate NYC :eek: in the finale, I’ve enjoyed them and felt that they contributed to my presence in this fiction. But is that a sufficient substitute for the limitless boundaries of sci-fantasy? Well, no, not for the level of enjoyment I’m seeking in what is (despite your protestation) a comic book fantasy, it isn’t.

A good analogy here would be Star Trek: OS. A show (particularly in the Roddenberry days) that had a strong and interesting moral compass, as well as an eye to the future of mankind. I’ll bet there’s no one here who didn’t at some point laugh or make fun of those cheesy mattes depicting the planet du jour. That just wasn’t as important as having transporters or phasers that looked like they really worked.

What I’m saying is we really want to like Heroes, but the creative team have to recognize the priorities in that process.

[QUOTE=vfxproducer]That's what the writers want you to pay attention to[/QUOTE=vfxproducer]

But there's the rub. This kind of entertainment should be directed to what the audience enjoys and wants to pay attention to, no?

________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

And this conspiracy does not just consist of people who have powers. I mean, the conspiracy included Linderman and hence "the company," and many people in the company do not have powers.

I don't think "The Company" is actually part of this "Conspiracy" as much as it's just a tool to do their bidding. We've heard a couple of references, by Linderman and Nakamura, to this kind of cabal of heroes existing over the years to....well....fight evil or something. The Company's motives seemed pretty evil. I don't think Thompson, who was kind of a thug, HRG, and the rest of The Company were quite up there with the superpowered group. We'll see what becomes of The Company next year, since its apparent leader has been killed off, and HRG has "defected".

C'mon archiguy, you need to keep up here.

Peddling as fast as I can. :D

Perhaps, I guess I just don't like the theory for a number of reasons. How mobile would've this "father of all heroes" likely to have been in Feudal era Japan? Not much, I'd think.

Didn't the first Europeans/outsiders "discover" Japan around that time? That could have been the impetus to spread those genes around the world.

I think it's just as likely that this eclipse event created "Heroes" all over the globe, and that Kensei is just Hiro's ancestor, and the other heroes have different ancestors.

Actually, I think I like that theory better now that I've given it some thought. ;)

I don't think "The Company" is actually part of this "Conspiracy" as much as it's just a tool to do their bidding. We've heard a couple of references, by Linderman and Nakamura, to this kind of cabal of heroes existing over the years to....well....fight evil or something. The Company's motives seemed pretty evil. I don't think Thompson, who was kind of a thug, HRG, and the rest of The Company were quite up there with the superpowered group. We'll see what becomes of The Company next year, since its apparent leader has been killed off, and HRG has "defected".
I dunno, I think the company is part of it since it has ties to Linderman. Maybe Linderman defected to the "evil" side or whatever. But he definitely used the company to get what he wanted...

Peddling as fast as I can. :D
;)