"One thing I noticed on using 23.xx throughout, (which works great by the way!), that when I switch back to satellite for instance it displays the message warning about 23.xx out on non 23.xx source.

Could that be changed such that it will automatically revert to whatever the source is? So for DVD, satellite, etc. it would do 59.xx while for BlueRay/HD_DVD it would do 23.xx."

You can do this now. Change Output Config 0 back to 1080p60. Then configure Output Config 1 for 1080p24. Now on the INPUT memory for 1080p24 set it to use Output Config 1.

Shawn

Does your HTPC have a DVI output? You could use a DVI to HDMI converter cable too!

Thanks for the input, I'll give that a try. The HTPC only has VGA for now. I want to try it out and see how it looks before I decide to upgrade it.

Yeah well, I guess if you try it and don't like it that much, there are pretty good cheap DVI cards out there too. I am interested in hearing your results! (erm when the Radiance can actually let you do something with it.)

Hmmn! I cannot seem to get 24p output to work? I have the most recent update 02/09/08 (or something like that) but am getting flashing/cyan screen. For those who have done this sucessfully, I assume while watching the screen, pressing Menu 020 did it for you? Anyone get this to work with the Samsung Duo Player? Curious thing is that when I press Menu 020 not only odes the video flash, but so does the aduio which makes me think it is something wierd with the player.

Hmmn! I cannot seem to get 24p output to work? I have the most recent update 02/09/08 (or something like that) but am getting flashing/cyan screen. For those who have done this sucessfully, I assume while watching the screen, pressing Menu 020 did it for you? Anyone get this to work with the Samsung Duo Player? Curious thing is that when I press Menu 020 not only odes the video flash, but so does the aduio which makes me think it is something wierd with the player.

You'd probably have more luck in the beta forum...

You'd probably have more luck in the beta forum...

Thanks, figured both - I think this maybe a problem with my Samsung.

Would is be possible for someone to PM me and point me in the direction of how to get hold of XD; also would be interested in the going rate for one (not MSRP). There is reference to going thru AVS but nor sure what that entails. Thanks

Would is be possible for someone to PM me and point me in the direction of how to get hold of XD; also would be interested in the going rate for one (not MSRP). There is reference to going thru AVS but nor sure what that entails. Thanks

That entails calling AV Science. 585-454-1460 or toll free 877-823-4452. They'll hook you up.

Thanks for that.

You have mail.

I cannot get to the Lumagen site, is it just me or is it down?

- Rich

I cannot get to the Lumagen site, is it just me or is it down?

- Rich

Just you. :p

Just you. :p

That is weird. I am back. Other sites were working.

- Rich

You'd probably have more luck in the beta forum...

Radience in the house today :D Not read the manual yet so how does one join the Beta forum ?

Radience in the house today :D Not read the manual yet so how does one join the Beta forum ?Have a word with Gordon.

To join the beta forum you need to email me with your forum user name your serial number and the dealer you bought it from. Once I've confirmed all that admin will give you access

To join the beta forum you need to email me with your forum user name your serial number and the dealer you bought it from. Once I've confirmed all that admin will give you access

Hi Gordon. I just PMed you with my Radiance info so I can get on the beta forum!!! Gotta a new Radiance and a new Sim2 C3X 1080. Products right up your alley!!

I am trying to decide between the VP50Pro, the RadianceXD, and the Radiance Pro. I am interested in HD-SDI and wondered if there would be a difference in quality between the conversion done by the external box HD-SDI=>HDMI or the inputs on VP50 pro or Radiance Pro. Some people have suggested that your conversion box is lossy. Will it add an extra digital to analog conversion step? Will having the HD-SDI inputs on the Rad Pro bypass that extra step, and allow for higher quality?
BTW, I wouldn't mind a pricing structure that eventually ends at the Radiance pro since I want both HDMI 1.3 and HD-SDI anyhow.
Also, I heard that Blu-Ray will not support HD-SDI output, ever. Will a Blu-Ray source always require an HD-DVD player hack? (Not really a Lumagen question, I guess).

I am trying to decide between the VP50Pro, the RadianceXD, and the Radiance Pro. I am interested in HD-SDI and wondered if there would be a difference in quality between the conversion done by the external box HD-SDI=>HDMI or the inputs on VP50 pro or Radiance Pro. Some people have suggested that your conversion box is lossy. Will it add an extra digital to analog conversion step? Will having the HD-SDI inputs on the Rad Pro bypass that extra step, and allow for higher quality?
BTW, I wouldn't mind a pricing structure that eventually ends at the Radiance pro since I want both HDMI 1.3 and HD-SDI anyhow.
Also, I heard that Blu-Ray will not support HD-SDI output, ever. Will a Blu-Ray source always require an HD-DVD player hack? (Not really a Lumagen question, I guess).

Why do you want HD-SDI?

Why do I want HD-SDI. Ummm, it's a sparkly new gadget-y technology that enables, I am told, a better picture than coming from HDMI alone. Why is it being offered if it is not better? Therefore, I want it. Are you new here?

Why is it being offered if it is not better?

For the same reason hdmi 1.3 is being offered? Oh, right, you want that too. Well it's your money. :)

Minor update. A couple features have been implemented (list based output selection, 24p/sF output for 24p input), so I moved from the to-do list to the 'done' list. Also added the price for the rack ears, as mentioned by Chris above (thanks Chris!).

HDSDI is not really utilized...yet. But hopefully that will be coming soon.

I would like to have HD-SDI when/if it is available. It would solve for example issues some players had not clipping BTB/WTW. I want the info off the disc in it's purest form. I prefer to let the high end gear (VP) deal with it where I have more control over it. But if I hav a player without that issue, I can easily live without HD-SDI for now. Meanwhile....

...semi-related. I use SD-SDI from a Denon 2900 throught my Lumagen HDP. I like the HDP so much I am a loyal Lumagen fan. So as I look to the Radiance, what options are there for feeding my SD-SDI into it? That is, are there any good SD-SDI to HDMI converters? I'd prefer to sell the HDP once the Radiance is installed.

Thanks!

I would like to have HD-SDI when/if it is available. It would solve for example issues some players had not clipping BTB/WTW. I want the info off the disc in it's purest form. I prefer to let the high end gear (VP) deal with it where I have more control over it. But if I hav a player without that issue, I can easily live without HD-SDI for now. Meanwhile....

...semi-related. I use SD-SDI from a Denon 2900 throught my Lumagen HDP. I like the HDP so much I am a loyal Lumagen fan. So as I look to the Radiance, what options are there for feeding my SD-SDI into it? That is, are there any good SD-SDI to HDMI converters? I'd prefer to sell the HDP once the Radiance is installed.

Thanks!

Scott, I recently hooked up an AJA HD/SD SDI to HDMI converter, from my Theta Compli DVD SDI to my Lumagen Radiance and seems to work fine.
Before with my prior Dwin projector I had a Lumagen VisionPro HDP with built-in SDI which worked great. As I have a new projector now, I can't really compare the former SDI vs my current SDI. I can only say looks awful nice right now. But I am saying this based on my Sharp 32" 1080p LCD, which I had hooked up before and after, and my new Sim2 C3X 1080 projecting on a black wall until my screen arrives!

I started these two threads a couple of months ago discussing this topic:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=889936&highlight=sdi+hdmi
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=909082&highlight=sdi+hdmi
where we discussed some options. At the time, I opted against the Aja box because it wouldn't do 480i...only 480p. The one that Steve is using apparenlty does 480i (see related thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=996789) even though the Aja website does not list this as a accepted input.
This box does, however, do a color space conversion to RGB. If you truly want the Lumagen doing everything, this box isn't going to give an untampered with signal from your player.
Lumagen will be offering an HD-SDI ->HDMI accessory for the Radiance. when I spoke to them about this several months ago it was a little ways down on the priority list and they were anticipating around $700 MSRP.
I ended up going for a Oppo 980H which does 480i over HDMI in YCbCr. My modded 2910 is currently feeding an HDP that I picked up as for my living room plasma. Overkill, but at least its not collecting dust.

To join the beta forum you need to email me with your forum user name your serial number and the dealer you bought it from. Once I've confirmed all that admin will give you access

Thanks Gordon. Done.

so, anyone know the final word on how the upgrade to hdmi 1.3 will be handled?

so, anyone know the final word on how the upgrade to hdmi 1.3 will be handled?

There was alot of discussion on this earlier in the thread...suggest that you do a search...IIRC the end result was resturn to the dealer/Lumagen for a board swap...

HTH

There was alot of discussion on this earlier in the thread...suggest that you do a search...IIRC the end result was resturn to the dealer/Lumagen for a board swap...

HTH

I thought the end result was swap the unit for a 1.3 one, with an option for board swap if requested? :)

On a more general note, this thread seems a lot quieter since xmas. Is the rad just performing perfectly now with every feature ever wanted implemented or has everyone buggered off to the private beta forum? (Where all us potential customers can't see/hear how things are going or get our vote in for features :( ).

I think the unit is close to being out of beta so everyone can have their say. I'll be creating a non beta RADIANCE forum soon.

Once Jim has finalised the 1.3 stuff I'm sure he'll let you know here. I am confident that it'll be good result for folk.

On a more general note, this thread seems a lot quieter since xmas. Is the rad just performing perfectly now with every feature ever wanted implemented or has everyone buggered off to the private beta forum?

Sums up my experience pretty well. I've had mine for a month or so. Every update has been a breeze to download and install. The Beta forum is also pretty quiet. Updates still appear regularly but folks are just enjoying the image instead of posting. As Gordon mentioned, Beta appears to soon be a thing of the past.....

There are still issues and features to be added, and they are being resolved and added respectively. Speaking for myself, I've been spending a lot of time getting my head around the complexities of gamut adjustment.

Gamut adjustment is a HUGE feature, and it has taken a while to get there. Reports I've had of properly adjusted gamuts are all very positive.

Tim

Still a few features short of leaving beta (custom timing is pretty important to me).

Got the beta and I have to admit, it's really very close to non-beta. I really like what I'm seeing.

Of course, I'm waiting for the unit to come out of beta before I review it.

BTW, with custom timing - do you guys prefer the way that the Vision line implemented it (setting the totals instead of back/front porch)? I hope we move towards a more standardized way to implement this : being able to either play with total res, actual res, and sync/front+back porches. I.e., being able to specify one or the other and the other parameters still keeping in sync. This is more in line with how the PC does it as well as other processor manufacturers.

"Still a few features short of leaving beta (custom timing is pretty important to me)."

Custom timings are in the Radiance now.

With 18 inputs each with 4 memory locations and all the HD capable inputs having another 8 'resolution sub memories' (362 different possible input memory configurations) what the Radiance really needs is the copy command. :)

Shawn

Amen to that! :)

"Still a few features short of leaving beta (custom timing is pretty important to me)."

Custom timings are in the Radiance now.

With 18 inputs each with 4 memory locations and all the HD capable inputs having another 8 'resolution sub memories' (362 different possible input memory configurations) what the Radiance really needs is the copy command. :)

Shawn

Aw comeon it isn't that bad. See if you just do one a day it will only take you well um er I guess close to a year to get everything setup! :D

"Aw comeon it isn't that bad."

Actually, I think it is a little worse. I think the SD inputs can detect between NTSC and PAL so they have twice the number of memories to configure their too. So doing the one a day that is another 32 days of configuring.

And I haven't even mentioned output configs yet. ;)

Shawn

Yes. I have PAL and NTSC inputs for DVD, but the main issue is outputs. I have 1080p24, 1080p50 and 1080p60. And those are just the ones with a Rec.709 gamut calibration. I'm going to need 1080p24 and 1080p50 output settings with a Rec.601 calibration.

And this is before any consideration of CIH or daytime viewing output settings!

Overkill? Not really. That's why I bought the Radiance.

Once Jim has finalised the 1.3 stuff I'm sure he'll let you know here. I am confident that it'll be good result for folk. Are you referring to HDMI 1.3 ?

Yes that is what the question was about. HDMI 1.3 spec

After the recent update I would say the unit is ready to sell to regular customers,so I am doing now.
There is nothing missing too important and regular updates is a lumagen virtue.
I have tried 24p in and 48p out without any problems on my G90 and I can also have different configs for one input so adress the 48p, 50 and 60p vertical rates.
Now with 1080p becoming a standard in display resolution, custom timings are not that important any more and I like the idea of Lumagen, having all the standard combinations of resolution and refresh rates to be selected from a pull down list. Very easy to use and understandable by non video geeks.
Considering the very good image quality we have the ultimate video processor now. Can become a reference for the next years !
So no need to wait any longer, forget the HDMI 1.3 it is a stupid marketing made up. Use the 8 channel PCM option of your source for high res audio and go ahead with the lumagen Radiance as it is today.
The deep color is joke to my opinion and will be a good source for wrong colors if EDID information is not passed correctly if ever used in the future.

Just a small story out of reality:

I have hard facts that are more worrying. The HDMI upgrade of the Mark Levinson prepro only processes 1080i that leaves the customer to 1080i from its BluRay output. Only a Radiance can fix this problem, run 1080i out of the source, feed the Mark Levinsion from the second output with 1080i and let the Radiance do the deinterlacing to 1080p and feed the projector from output 1.

If a CRT user like me wants to turn 1080p24 based material into 72Hz, what is the best output resolution to use since 1080p72 is not possible?

Martin

"The HDMI upgrade of the Mark Levinson prepro only processes 1080i that leaves the customer to 1080i from its BluRay output. Only a Radiance can fix this problem, run 1080i out of the source, feed the Mark Levinsion from the second output with 1080i and let the Radiance do the deinterlacing to 1080p and feed the projector from output 1."

If you were outputting 1080i from the source just feed that into the ML then use its output to any scaler to deinterlace to 1080p.

What the Radiance can do that others can't is take 1080p from the source into the Radiance and output 1080p on its output 1 to the projector and feed blank 1080i with audio out of the Radiance Output2 to the ML.

Shawn

Another minor update; fixed the link to the GF9450 brochure (thanks Roberto!) and moved the timing (pixel accurate output) functionality from 'to-do' to 'done'.

Is the image shift already in place ? Or will be after prod release ?

Thanks

What the Radiance can do that others can't is take 1080p from the source into the Radiance and output 1080p on its output 1 to the projector and feed blank 1080i with audio out of the Radiance Output2 to the ML.

If this is true that would be great, is it working for both 1080p60 and 1080p24 ?

thanks

"If this is true that would be great, is it working for both 1080p60 and 1080p24 ?"

Yes.

Shawn

The amen with respect too Lumagent is kind of funny. With respect to every other processor manufacturer one had better pray if one wants something or some bug fixed. With Lumagen no need to pray.

Dave, I have seen your post that says the CMS is a very big feature of the Radiance XD.

My question is: If a TV (in my case an LCD, if it matters) does not have CMS and has luminance/hue issues that can NOT be adjusted, can the Radiance "muscle" or force the corrections on the input side so that the calibration of the TV is correct?

Running the latest firmware; my HD-DVD player (no laughing cause its worth a lot less than I paid for it) is set to output 1080/24. However, when I look at the video input adjust on the XD it is showing up as inputing 1080/60.


Any reason it is seeing the input as /60?

should I config output as /60 or /24?

Dave, I have seen your post that says the CMS is a very big feature of the Radiance XD.

My question is: If a TV (in my case an LCD, if it matters) does not have CMS and has luminance/hue issues that can NOT be adjusted, can the Radiance "muscle" or force the corrections on the input side so that the calibration of the TV is correct?

Correct. In fact the XD lets you calibrate the XD->TV path independently, and then you can calibrate each input separately.

Running the latest firmware; my HD-DVD player (no laughing cause its worth a lot less than I paid for it) is set to output 1080/24. However, when I look at the video input adjust on the XD it is showing up as inputing 1080/60.


Any reason it is seeing the input as /60?

should I config output as /60 or /24?

Are you sure it is the input showing 60, not the output? AFAIK the 24p input/output is implemented and works. You'd have more luck in the beta forums - this isn't a support thread :).

Thanks; I did not bother getting access to the Beta. Thought this might be a simple set up thing I was confusing. Its the input showing 60 for sure. I have a couple of other slightly odd things like 480 out of a HR21 box showing up as "other" in the input menu as well. I send an email to them directly.

Thanks; I did not bother getting access to the Beta. Thought this might be a simple set up thing I was confusing. Its the input showing 60 for sure. I have a couple of other slightly odd things like 480 out of a HR21 box showing up as "other" in the input menu as well. I send an email to them directly.

Although i recognize this is not a support thread, I am seeing exactly the same thing. I set my Sony BPDS1 to 1080p24, but the Radiance says input is at 1080p60. Strange.

How are people finding the Gennum (Sigma) image enhancements? Does the noise reduction work without losing much detail? And the detail enhancement for soft images? Just curious as there hasn't been much mention of these since they went in.

I like some of the Gennum enhancements. The 3d/2D NR appears to work well and helps solidify the image with the RS-1 by reducing overall noise in the picture. The Adaptive contrast enhancement at 1 also looks good on the RS-1. I haven't played with the sharpening controls very much yet though.

Shawn

I like some of the Gennum enhancements. The 3d/2D NR appears to work well and helps solidify the image with the RS-1 by reducing overall noise in the picture. The Adaptive contrast enhancement at 1 also looks good on the RS-1. I haven't played with the sharpening controls very much yet though.

Shawn

Shawn

I've not been following this thread but are there any current significant features on the Vision HPD that I would miss by upgrading to the Radiance at this point ?

D

The main missing item is inverse telecine and genlock which won't be in until after "production status".

Me too with a Pioneer BDP94 but the projector also says 60 as the input without the Radiance in the chain. Maybe a software update to the player is needed to enable 24?

Simon. Removing the Radiance what does your 200 say is being received?

In addition, NLS is not implemented yet; important for us plasma people.

In addition, NLS is not implemented yet; important for us plasma people.True. It's due this month though.

I proposed to Randy in a conversation last week that they throw up a tech tip discussing use of the noise reduction features...he agreed and it is on the to do list-

Guys I don't mean to get all nazi on you :) but can we move the support either to the beta forum or at least to the main XD thread? I know there's a bunch of people who subscribe to the thread and expect to see the FAQ updated when something new's posted.

And seriously - that is EXACTLY why the beta forums are for. :)

Thanks much -

"I've not been following this thread but are there any current significant features on the Vision HPD that I would miss by upgrading to the Radiance at this point ?"

The copy function. :)

The Radiance is getting pretty complete though. Some of the things missing are copy, genlock, NLS, the no-scale modes (I think the Radiance will have more options there then the Visions), RGBHV input, some of the RS-232 functionality (ZT command) and so on. IMO nothing that is a showstopper at this point.

Shawn

I proposed to Randy in a conversation last week that they throw up a tech tip discussing use of the noise reduction features...he agreed and it is on the to do list-

Good job... I'd like a FAQ for ALL of the Lumagen features..

Am I to understand that 24p in to 24psf output is now indeed working on the current build?

Will it also auto-switch output signal depending upon the input? (60->60 and 24->24psf)?

Thanks

Good job... I'd like a FAQ for ALL of the Lumagen features..

Good idea, I'll start working on that.

Am I to understand that 24p in to 24psf output is now indeed working on the current build?Yes, this was added in February. There was a frame tearing bug, but I believe this was fixed soon after.

Will it also auto-switch output signal depending upon the input? (60->60 and 24->24psf)?If you tell it to! 1080p24 and 1080p60 inputs have different memories and you can set the output configuration independently for each.

Am I to understand that 24p in to 24psf output is now indeed working on the current build?

Will it also auto-switch output signal depending upon the input? (60->60 and 24->24psf)?

Thanks

Peter, it works like a charm..Finally have 1080P24sf!

Moving these comments out of the FAQ thread above, a number of us have HD-DVD players putting out (in theory) 1080p/24; However the XD seems to be seeing it at 1080p/60 since when you are on the HD-DVD input and you go the the video section, 1080p/60 is starred and not /24.

I did enable the 1080p/24 mode in the overall configuration as per the email from support.

", a number of us have HD-DVD players putting out (in theory) 1080p/24; However the XD seems to be seeing it at 1080p/60 since when you are on the HD-DVD input and you go the the video section, 1080p/60 is starred and not /24."

Hit OK on the Lumagen remote and it will tell you what is coming in and out.If the Lumagen says it is getting 1080p60 that is what it is getting.

On the A35 to get it to spit out 1080p24 I had to setup a USER EDID in the Radiance for it with every resolution turned off except for 1080p24.

Shawn

I will set up a USER EDID as you suggest; but since the XD is getting a signal from your A35, I am a bit confused as to how changing a 'recieve' option in the XD somehow caused the A35 to spit out something different. But have to defer to your expertise here and will let you know if this works.

"I am a bit confused as to how changing a 'recieve' option in the XD somehow caused the A35 to spit out something different."

The source asks the receiving end what it can accept (that is what the EDID is) and then the source limits their outputs based on that information. If the A35 sees that the receiving end can only receive out 1080p24 it basically has no choice but to output at 1080p24.

Shawn

On the A35 to get it to spit out 1080p24 I had to setup a USER EDID in the Radiance for it with every resolution turned off except for 1080p24.


Same for me. Selection of format by a source when it is faced with multiple supported formats from a sink seems to be one of the less well done parts of HDMI implementations.

The HDMI spec doesn't specify what resolution a video source should output when, as is normal, the EDID in the video processor lists multiple resolutions. It depends on the programming in the video source, as to what resolution the source will output. You might need to do a little experimenting with the EDID in the Radiance to see how the video source will react. If you only leave one resolution on, in the Radiance, then the video source is more likely to output that resolution.

Some video sources have an option that allows you to choose the resolution that is output or allows you to output the native resolution of the video. Be sure to look at the menus on the video source to see if it has this option.

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

Randy,

"Some video sources have an option that allows you to choose the resolution that is output or allows you to output the native resolution of the video."

The A35 seems really dumb about this. You have the ability to set what resolutions it outputs and it has choices for something like up to 1080p60 and another for up to 1080p24. But if you select the 1080p60 it spits out 1080p60, if you use the 1080p24 it outputs 1080i unless you use the USER EDID to force it to spit out 1080p24.

Shawn

Shawn - okay totally got this now. I can confirm that what needs to be done is to set up a user edid with all resolutions disabled except 1080p/24. Once I did this and repowered up the Onkyo it is spitting out /24; as confirmed by the XD.

The HDMI spec doesn't specify what resolution a video source should output when, as is normal, the EDID in the video processor lists multiple resolutions.

Randy,

As a guy working with protocols for a living, I consider this a serious HDMI specifications defect. It leads to all kinds of interoperability issues, which are highly visible to the consumer.

To be clear to casual AVS readers, this is not a Radiance XD problem at all. In fact I fall down thanking Lumagen on a near daily basis for the user configurable EDID in the XD. I had no idea when I took the dive into HDMI that it was as important as it has turned out to be.

In fact, this is exactly why I suggested on the Beta board to have the Audio EDID be local to the input, not global, just like video. While it is audio switching in the XD, the same EDID management issue exists on the audio side just like video.

The A35 seems really dumb about this.

So is the BD30.

Hit OK on the Lumagen remote and it will tell you what is coming in and out.If the Lumagen says it is getting 1080p60 that is what it is getting.

Oh cool! I didn't know this... thanks for saving all those button pushes!

I guess I need to read the manual more carefully...

Randy,

As a guy working with protocols for a living, I consider this a serious HDMI specifications defect. It leads to all kinds of interoperability issues, which are highly visible to the consumer.

To be clear to casual AVS readers, this is not a Radiance XD problem at all. In fact I fall down thanking Lumagen on a near daily basis for the user configurable EDID in the XD. I had no idea when I took the dive into HDMI that it was as important as it has turned out to be.

In fact, this is exactly why I suggested on the Beta board to have the Audio EDID be local to the input, not global, just like video. While it is audio switching in the XD, the same EDID management issue exists on the audio side just like video.

Seems odd, using the A35 into a VP50 and setting the "up to 1080p24" seems to work ok, still would prefer a native option but I guess we'll never see that now. :rolleyes:

I am feeding a Meridian G98DH and Sony PS3 60GB through the XD into a DVI Moome board on my G70Q projector. Previously, I was using a Runco SC3300 at 3x via RGBHV to the G70, no PS3.

I have initially set the XD output to 720p to minimize the number of changes needed to the G70. The picture was initially off to the left of the screen, so I moved everything back to line up with the G98DH. The G98DH and PS3 are both set to output for 16:9. However, the G98 image fits the screen properly but the PS3 image looks squashed vertically and stretched horizontally. Both inputs have the same output settings (720p, 16:9 screen).

I've probably missed something totally obvious - sorry for what's probably a complete noob question. I have contacted the guy who did the last calibration on the G70, but have not been able to arrange a visit as yet.

Cheers, Ian

I am feeding a Meridian G98DH and Sony PS3 60GB through the XD into a DVI Moome board on my G70Q projector. Previously, I was using a Runco SC3300 at 3x via RGBHV to the G70, no PS3.

I have initially set the XD output to 720p to minimize the number of changes needed to the G70. The picture was initially off to the left of the screen, so I moved everything back to line up with the G98DH. The G98DH and PS3 are both set to output for 16:9. However, the G98 image fits the screen properly but the PS3 image looks squashed vertically and stretched horizontally. Both inputs have the same output settings (720p, 16:9 screen).

I've probably missed something totally obvious - sorry for what's probably a complete noob question. I have contacted the guy who did the last calibration on the G70, but have not been able to arrange a visit as yet.

Cheers, Ian

Did you try pressing "16:9" on the remote while the PS3 input is active? If I read your post correctly, you set the XD's output to 16/9, and you set the PS3 to output 16/9, but you still need to tell the XD that the PS3 is outputting 16/9 (that's what the AR buttons on the remote do.)

If that's not it I don't know. :p

I just got roped into a problem interfacing the RadianceXD to the customers Lexicon MC-12HD BAL EQ, RS-1, and their Samsung BD-P1200.

I can not get 1080p24 to work with the lumagen in this configuration using the samsung BD-P1200. If I connect the HDMI cable from the RS-1 to the Samsung, then the Samsung will let me select 24 fps. If I run the Samsung through the Radiance, I can never enable 24 fps in the Samsung.

I tried USER enabling only 1080p24 and I get video tearing. I even tried Passback 1 to send the EDID codes from the RS-1 to the BD-P1200 and no go with that.

Also I noticed when playing Casino Royale (blu-ray) and I change from DD to uncompressed, the lexicon burped and farted horribly. I spoke with Randy @ Lumagen. He would like to get a loaner MC-12HD for testing in their lab. Until then, has anyone had success with this combination?

If so, would you be kind and share how you were able to get it to work?

As an FYI I just did a Marantz VP11S2 with a Radiance (actually 2 of them). The VP11S2 alone has oversaturated colors and grayscale only tracks so so. With the Radiance in the loop I was "easily" able to get the thing to dial in near perfectly. Quite impressive.

I would like some help with a pretty basic question; I don't see the answer in a perusal of the thread, but perhaps that's because it's "obvious". I bought a Vision HDP to use its new CMS capability to improve the colors on my RS-1. I am hearing that the HDP CMS is limited, and that I might just throw off the secondaries in attempting to fix the primaries. This has me considering the RadianceXD. My question is: I plan to buy a BD player (probably the upcoming Panasonic DMP-BD50), and since it is supposedly only so-so in upconverting SD-DVDs, does the RadianceXD function as a high quality upconverter (I am aware it is fine at upscaling)? Would the upconversion quality be on the level of the Toshiba XA2? Or is this simply not its job? Thanks!

Kevin

I would like some help with a pretty basic question; I don't see the answer in a perusal of the thread, but perhaps that's because it's "obvious". I bought a Vision HDP to use its new CMS capability to improve the colors on my RS-1. I am hearing that the HDP CMS is limited, and that I might just throw off the secondaries in attempting to fix the primaries. This has me considering the RadianceXD. My question is: I plan to buy a BD player (probably the upcoming Panasonic DMP-BD50), and since it is supposedly only so-so in upconverting SD-DVDs, does the RadianceXD function as a high quality upconverter (I am aware it is fine at upscaling)? Would the upconversion quality be on the level of the Toshiba XA2? Or is this simply not its job? Thanks!

Kevin

It is late so I will provide a quick answer...yes it is a tremendous deinterlacer as well as scaler...and yes, it IS better than anything Toshiba has!

Joelc: Thanks for the brief yet very encouraging news. I may simply not fully understand the terms. I am still fuzzy over upscaling vs upconverting - perhaps they are actually synonymous. The RS-1 is great at de-interlacing. My main goal would be to get the maximum visual resolution when watching SD-DVDs. Obviously, the mastering is a factor, but I also thought that really good upconverters would cleverly interpolate pixels within the original 480p SD material, creating at least the illusion of a higher resolution image. On top of that, you want to avoid errors of a number of sorts. I could allow the player to perform the upconversion, or force 480p out and have the RS-1 with its Gennum chip try and upscale/convert the signal, or force 480p to the RadianceXD and have it send 1080p to the RS-1. I think the latter is preferred (plus I would be able to truly perfect the colors), but colors aside, how much better would the RadianceXD imagery be over the RS-1, and does it in fact do what I have been describing as "upconverting" better than the XA2? Would it help SD material look "closer to HD" than any other solution? On a side note, the biggest irritation I get with SD material is obvious visual ringing on text, especially subtitles. I presume that the "ringless" claim on the RadianceXD would come in handy here. Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks!

Kevin

Joelc: Thanks for the brief yet very encouraging news. I may simply not fully understand the terms. I am still fuzzy over upscaling vs upconverting - perhaps they are actually synonymous. The RS-1 is great at de-interlacing. My main goal would be to get the maximum visual resolution when watching SD-DVDs. Obviously, the mastering is a factor, but I also thought that really good upconverters would cleverly interpolate pixels within the original 480p SD material, creating at least the illusion of a higher resolution image. On top of that, you want to avoid errors of a number of sorts. I could allow the player to perform the upconversion, or force 480p out and have the RS-1 with its Gennum chip try and upscale/convert the signal, or force 480p to the RadianceXD and have it send 1080p to the RS-1. I think the latter is preferred (plus I would be able to truly perfect the colors), but colors aside, how much better would the RadianceXD imagery be over the RS-1, and does it in fact do what I have been describing as "upconverting" better than the XA2? Would it help SD material look "closer to HD" than any other solution? On a side note, the biggest irritation I get with SD material is obvious visual ringing on text, especially subtitles. I presume that the "ringless" claim on the RadianceXD would come in handy here. Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks!

Kevin


Kevin

With SD DVD one of key elements that affects PQ is deinterlacing. By outputting 480p from the Panasonic this has already been done at the player end. I don't know how good the Panasonic is in this respect and I'm not sure if you can select 480i over HDMI with this player. I know the Sony Blu-ray players have an option called "Source direct" and this allows SD DVD output at 480i/576i over HDMI. This is a useful feature if you also have a Lumagen VP because it means the signal hasn't already been screwed.

480i over HDMI to the Radiance is a much better option than 480p as it is first class at deinterlacing and upscaling i.e. turning a 720x480 image into a 1920x1080 image. If SD DVD quality is a priority then this is the way to go IMO. I have a HD1 and find the image via the VP (Luma HPD) produces better results than going direct to the PJ. I think the other potential when Lumagen enable for full feature set on the Radiance is that NTSC DVD can be processed to 1080p/24 thus solving 3:2 motion judder.

Your comment about the gamut feature of the Vision HPD range is correct. I have been unable to reach a situation that allows correct primaries and secondaries. So it's a compromise that may be OK for some (it's great that Lumagen did this) but to me it just replaces one issue with another rather than solving the problem.

D

Dazerxxx: Thanks for your reply. I mistakenly thought SD material was intrinsically 480p; I now see that forcing it to native 480i and letting the VP handle de-interlacing and upconverting (upscaling?) is best. On the gamut issue, your conclusion seems to be the majority opinion; I am sending my HDP back to Jason today, who has agreed to try his hand at using it to fix an RS-1, but I would be surprised if he concludes otherwise. I will probably upgrade to the RadianceXD. Just wondering; given the extended gestation period in its development, are the chips in the RadianceXD still at the top off the game, processing wise?

Kevin

Dazerxxx: Thanks for your reply. I mistakenly thought SD material was intrinsically 480p; I now see that forcing it to native 480i and letting the VP handle de-interlacing and upconverting (upscaling?) is best. On the gamut issue, your conclusion seems to be the majority opinion; I am sending my HDP back to Jason today, who has agreed to try his hand at using it to fix an RS-1, but I would be surprised if he concludes otherwise. I will probably upgrade to the RadianceXD. Just wondering; given the extended gestation period in its development, are the chips in the RadianceXD still at the top off the game, processing wise?

Kevin


It will be interesting to see what Jason is able to achieve. It is possible to reduce the primary gamut a bit before the secondaries are affected too much. I guess it depends if you're happy with compromise of if you want to hit the correct color points.

As far as I know the Gennum processor used for some duties on the Raidance is still at amongst those at the top of the game. Lumagen also use a separate processor with the Gennum on a daughter board. I guess this may even allow upgrades in future.

D

The gennum processor in the Radiance is the one on a daughter board. It is the LATEST highest spec VXP processor from Gennum. Radiance is actually the first scaler to use this chip I believe.....

Gordon

The gennum processor in the Radiance is the one on a daughter board.
Gordon

That's what I was trying to say. :)

D

It is late so I will provide a quick answer...yes it is a tremendous deinterlacer as well as scaler...and yes, it IS better than anything Toshiba has!

I have found that for SD upconversion, it is a touch better than the XA2.
The XA2 is very very very good in that regard. The lumagen is very very very very good. (3 verys vs. 4 verys) :D

The Lumagen does so much more too and can handle all of my other weird sources too.

Did you try pressing "16:9" on the remote while the PS3 input is active? If I read your post correctly, you set the XD's output to 16/9, and you set the PS3 to output 16/9, but you still need to tell the XD that the PS3 is outputting 16/9 (that's what the AR buttons on the remote do.)

If that's not it I don't know. :p
I should have mentioned that in the original post - yes, I tried pressing the 16:9 key on the remote, but it didn't make any difference. Some of the other keys caused a change in the image, none bringing it into alignment with the screen.

One additional piece of information is that I uploaded the latest firmware and restarted from scratch without any outcome difference.

Shawn - okay totally got this now. I can confirm that what needs to be done is to set up a user edid with all resolutions disabled except 1080p/24. Once I did this and repowered up the Onkyo it is spitting out /24; as confirmed by the XD.

Is there a way to associate a user EDID to a specific output or only one of the MEM keys, or do you just have to specifically select it each time you want to watch a 1080p24 source? Thx.

Is there a way to associate a user EDID to a specific output or only one of the MEM keys, or do you just have to specifically select it each time you want to watch a 1080p24 source? Thx.

Each source is a seperate input e.g. source 1 is used for a PS3. For source 1 you have 4 seperate sub memories. Each sub memory has an EDID selection. So, for example Mem A. could have all EDIDs except 24p disabled but if you wanted to watch a PS3 with video based material you could set Mem B to 1080i etc. Each sub memory has a selection of output resolutions (e.g. 1080 24p, 60p etc.) including a user specified selection.

Each source is a seperate input e.g. source 1 is used for a PS3. For source 1 you have 4 seperate sub memories. Each sub memory has an EDID selection. So, for example Mem A. could have all EDIDs except 24p disabled but if you wanted to watch a PS3 with video based material you could set Mem B to 1080i etc. Each sub memory has a selection of output resolutions (e.g. 1080 24p, 60p etc.) including a user specified selection.

Yes, that is what I thought. However, when I am in, for example, input 1A and change the EDID under the HDMI menu, it changes for all four of the submemories for input 1. Perhaps I am just dense, but cannot seem to change it for only one of the submemories.

Yes, that is what I thought. However, when I am in, for example, input 1A and change the EDID under the HDMI menu, it changes for all four of the submemories for input 1. Perhaps I am just dense, but cannot seem to change it for only one of the submemories.
You're not dense. When you define User EDID the Radiance menu displays "Setting common to memory A-D". So that's the way it works now. According to Jim, individual memory EDID may be added later.

Yes, that is what I thought. However, when I am in, for example, input 1A and change the EDID under the HDMI menu, it changes for all four of the submemories for input 1. Perhaps I am just dense, but cannot seem to change it for only one of the submemories.

Perhaps I am mistaken. I have only used the 24p only EDID setting to force that out of my A20. Since all my HD-DVD material is film based I didn't actually try the example stated but thought it would work if the Mem A setting of forced 24p were saved and Mem B. was set to accept all or most of the available resolutions and that was also saved. If this doesn't work (i.e all 4 change to what Mem A. is set at) then we need to bring it up in the Lumagen Beta users forum. It's more convenient to change the sub memory chosen than to have to go into the player and change the output.

Has anyone been able to get multichanel DD from the Coax output of the Radience fed from the HDMI input from a PS3 ?

This must be a common set up and worked fine on my ex Crystalio 2.

I am trying to determine if I have a bad sound card in the Radience.

Tried the support forum without luck so far.

Has anyone been able to get multichanel DD from the Coax output of the Radience fed from the HDMI input from a PS3 ?

This must be a common set up and worked fine on my ex Crystalio 2.

I am trying to determine if I have a bad sound card in the Radience.

Tried the support forum without luck so far.

DD5.1 works for me. I watched Mr Magorium on Blu last night with it, for instance.

PS3 with HDMI into
Radiance XD to
(HDMI) Epson Pro 1080UB Projector
(HDMI) Sharp LC62D62U LCD
(COAX) into Denon AVR4806

No special settings, but I do override the EDID and force the XD to generate its own and it only includes what the 4806 can handle. PS3 I don't remember exactly what is set, but it does obviously include DD5.1 and I have bitstream output enabled.

Chris.

DD5.1 works for me. I watched Mr Magorium on Blu last night with it, for instance.

PS3 with HDMI into
Radiance XD to
(HDMI) Epson Pro 1080UB Projector
(HDMI) Sharp LC62D62U LCD
(COAX) into Denon AVR4806

No special settings, but I do override the EDID and force the XD to generate its own and it only includes what the 4806 can handle. PS3 I don't remember exactly what is set, but it does obviously include DD5.1 and I have bitstream output enabled.

Chris.


Thanks for the reply Chris. When you say 'force the XD to generate its own' I assume you mean the EDIT set to 'user' and only select the sound formats that you want. Or is there a way to override the EDIT altogether ?

Thanks for the reply Chris. When you say 'force the XD to generate its own' I assume you mean the EDIT set to 'user' and only select the sound formats that you want. Or is there a way to override the EDIT altogether ?
That's exactly what I mean.

Of course, after I posted that message I suddenly had a doubt over whether or not I do in fact send the audio from the PS3 over HDMI, or over SPDIF - but I've not had a chance to check yet!

I'll try to check tomorrow

Chris

Hi all,

I'm sure this has been asked before but reading the thread from front to back would take weeks. :) I have a new Sony VPL-VW60, would I see any benefit with HD DVD/BR and xbox 360? Thanks

M1

Two questions ...

(1) Any reason why an XD wouldn't be a great match for a new Hitachi 60" plasma?

Sources are a Hughes HR10-250 (Tivo + OTA HD + D* HD and SD) and a Denon DVD ... currently run all sources via component, and figured component to XD and HDMI to Hitachi

(2) Other than the usual fraud issues, any unusual issues with buying a used XD?

Thanks

Other than the usual fraud issues, any unusual issues with buying a used XD?The XD is still in Beta. I can't remember what's in my NDA, but I'm sure it would prohibit selling it on to anyone that hadn't signed an NDA.

In other words, there aren't any used XDs around at the moment.

The XD is still in Beta. I can't remember what's in my NDA, but I'm sure it would prohibit selling it on to anyone that hadn't signed an NDA.

In other words, there aren't any used XDs around at the moment.

Not quite. The NDA's been lifted a while ago, and new buyers are not required to sign one. I'm guessing this applies to used buyers as well, although I don't know who would sell their XD at this point. If people don't like it, they're going to return it, not sell it on ebay. Even then, all in all I've heard of ONE return.

Several have come up for sale on VideoGon and other similar sites.

An NDA wouldn't be an issue for me.

Hi all,

I'm sure this has been asked before but reading the thread from front to back would take weeks. :) I have a new Sony VPL-VW60, would I see any benefit with HD DVD/BR and xbox 360? Thanks

M1

I find the VW60 with a RadianceXD to be a very compelling combination. The performance post calibration is phenomenal.

I find the VW60 with a RadianceXD to be a very compelling combination. The performance post calibration is phenomenal.
Some while ago (maybe 1.5 years or so) you didn't seem to like video processors that much. It seems that the Radiance has changed your view? I guess this is a compliment to what Lumagen has built... :)

Some while ago (maybe 1.5 years or so) you didn't seem to like video processors that much. It seems that the Radiance has changed your view? I guess this is a compliment to what Lumagen has built... :)

I am not a fan of any except for Lumagen at this time. Their color management controls allow me to make some products perform with incredibly accurate colors. Many people have attempted what they are doing, but theirs is the only one I have seen that really works without a hitch.

Many CMS systems are a plus, but I cannot see any errors with theirs except for a few bugs in some intermediate releases.

My Tosh HD DVD player simply doesn't play nice with the Radiance. From a dead start I get no picture or audio from the Toshiba and no HDMI lock on the Pioneer until I turn the Radiance off and on AFTER a disc starts playing. It usually then locks and gives me audio and video.

My set-up is Panny Blu Ray, Tosh HD DVD and Verizon FIOS box into my Pioneer VSX92 (HDMI 1.3) via HDMI (for bitstream HD audio) and then HDMI out of the Pioneer to the Radiance input 1. I have audio on the Radiance HDMI 1 & 2 outputs off and have tried setting the Radiance to always on and hot plug enabled and that has no effect. The Toshiba is outputting 1080p/24fps as is the Radiance.

The Bluray and Verizon box shake hands with it and work perfectly - but the Toshiba just won't do it from power-up of the player...any suggestions?

Joe

Try setting the Toshiba input to HOTPLUG ALWAYS ON.

Shawn

Try setting the Toshiba input to HOTPLUG ALWAYS ON.

Shawn

Done that already. No effect.

Joe

I am not a fan of any except for Lumagen at this time. Their color management controls allow me to make some products perform with incredibly accurate colors. Many people have attempted what they are doing, but theirs is the only one I have seen that really works without a hitch.

Many CMS systems are a plus, but I cannot see any errors with theirs except for a few bugs in some intermediate releases.
Thank you for your feedback. Did you experience any negative side effects of using the Radiance CMS, e.g. increased banding?

Thank you for your feedback. Did you experience any negative side effects of using the Radiance CMS, e.g. increased banding?

Not after they fixed the software bug a while back. Banding is not an issue even with 8 bit color using their algorithm.

Not after they fixed the software bug a while back. Banding is not an issue even with 8 bit color using their algorithm.
Great to hear - thanks! :)

My Tosh HD DVD player simply doesn't play nice with the Radiance. From a dead start I get no picture or audio from the Toshiba and no HDMI lock on the Pioneer until I turn the Radiance off and on AFTER a disc starts playing. It usually then locks and gives me audio and video.

My set-up is Panny Blu Ray, Tosh HD DVD and Verizon FIOS box into my Pioneer VSX92 (HDMI 1.3) via HDMI (for bitstream HD audio) and then HDMI out of the Pioneer to the Radiance input 1. I have audio on the Radiance HDMI 1 & 2 outputs off and have tried setting the Radiance to always on and hot plug enabled and that has no effect. The Toshiba is outputting 1080p/24fps as is the Radiance.

The Bluray and Verizon box shake hands with it and work perfectly - but the Toshiba just won't do it from power-up of the player...any suggestions?

Joe

Are you using the sub memories on input 1. to the Radiance? If not, try assigning one to each of your sources with special attention to the Toshiba. For the sub mem assigned to the Toshiba, go into the user set video EDIDs and turn off all of them other than 1080 24fps. This may solve your problem. Make sure you SAVE each sub memory setting before moving to the next one.

Are you using the sub memories on input 1. to the Radiance? If not, try assigning one to each of your sources with special attention to the Toshiba. For the sub mem assigned to the Toshiba, go into the user set video EDIDs and turn off all of them other than 1080 24fps. This may solve your problem. Make sure you SAVE each sub memory setting before moving to the next one.

It is set up using a sub memory for that input (that input is shared with the Bluray player coming out of the reciever and I'm pretty sure it is set up to force 1080p/24 only (not in front of it at the moment - but I'm 99% certain it is). I'll check when I get home, but I don't think that is it.....

Joe

I am not a fan of any except for Lumagen at this time. Their color management controls allow me to make some products perform with incredibly accurate colors. Many people have attempted what they are doing, but theirs is the only one I have seen that really works without a hitch.

Many CMS systems are a plus, but I cannot see any errors with theirs except for a few bugs in some intermediate releases.

That is high praise coming from umr.

That is high praise coming from umr.

If you could see the results I have seen you would know why. I have the equipment to get phenominal color accuracy, but most products just do not deliver the goods. Mating this unit with many otherwise great products closes that gap.

Are you using the sub memories on input 1. to the Radiance? If not, try assigning one to each of your sources with special attention to the Toshiba. For the sub mem assigned to the Toshiba, go into the user set video EDIDs and turn off all of them other than 1080 24fps. This may solve your problem. Make sure you SAVE each sub memory setting before moving to the next one.


Checked - All EDIDs but 1080 24fps are off for that memory. This is really perplexing. Tonight I left the player playing a disc and after 5 minutes or so it finally sync'd up and delivered audio and video all on it's own. But that was after minutes of blanks screen and no sound....

Joe

If you could see the results I have seen you would know why. I have the equipment to get phenominal color accuracy, but most products just do not deliver the goods. Mating this unit with many otherwise great products closes that gap.Most products? The ONLY other external device I know of that even attempts CMS functionality is the Crystalio. It works reasonably well, but it isn't as sophisticated as the Radiance.

Most products? The ONLY other external device I know of that even attempts CMS functionality is the Crystalio. It works reasonably well, but it isn't as sophisticated as the Radiance.


I was talking about displays not delivering the goods. I never said I liked any other video processor's CMS.

My Tosh HD DVD player simply doesn't play nice with the Radiance. From a dead start I get no picture or audio from the Toshiba and no HDMI lock on the Pioneer until I turn the Radiance off and on AFTER a disc starts playing. It usually then locks and gives me audio and video.

My set-up is Panny Blu Ray, Tosh HD DVD and Verizon FIOS box into my Pioneer VSX92 (HDMI 1.3) via HDMI (for bitstream HD audio) and then HDMI out of the Pioneer to the Radiance input 1. I have audio on the Radiance HDMI 1 & 2 outputs off and have tried setting the Radiance to always on and hot plug enabled and that has no effect. The Toshiba is outputting 1080p/24fps as is the Radiance.

The Bluray and Verizon box shake hands with it and work perfectly - but the Toshiba just won't do it from power-up of the player...any suggestions?

Joe


My XA2 (firmware 2.7) syncs up fine with my Radiance with 1080P24. Sounds like a dud A35. Or send your A35 to Lumagen so they can dissect the issue. My Panasonic DMP-BD10 has never been quite right with the audio over HDMI and I am planning to send it to Lumagen to decipher the issue. I bought a Sony BD, and have no issues at all. Or since HD DVD is done, you might look for an XA2 and dump the A35. The XA2 is a better machine anyways. Good luck.

My XA2 (firmware 2.7) syncs up fine with my Radiance with 1080P24. Sounds like a dud A35. Or send your A35 to Lumagen so they can dissect the issue. My Panasonic DMP-BD10 has never been quite right with the audio over HDMI and I am planning to send it to Lumagen to decipher the issue. I bought a Sony BD, and have no issues at all. Or since HD DVD is done, you might look for an XA2 and dump the A35. The XA2 is a better machine anyways. Good luck.

I have an XA2 in another system. I'll swap it and see what happens. Regarding your Panny experience - I have a DMP-BD-30 and it plays nice with the Radiance...

Joe

I use an A35 and it works fine directly into the Radiance.Might be an issue with having your Pioneer between the A35 and the Radiance.

Shawn

I use an A35 and it works fine directly into the Radiance.Might be an issue with having your Pioneer between the A35 and the Radiance.

Shawn

Nope. the Player and Radiance hate each other directly in as well.

Joe

Sorry to do this but I looked over the FAQ twice and still didn't get the answer. Looked in other threads and the Lumagen website.

When is expected release of the production unit?

Ir's not in the FAQ because there's no official date. That said it should be coming soon, seeing how very little remains to be done from the 'before release' to-do list (I need to update it, btw). Don't hold me to it, but if I had to guess I'd say mid-late April.

The last Lumagen Radiance I received had no beta disclaimer with it unlike one I received a few weeks earlier.

At this point in the product's development I think about 90% of the menu functions are operational. Nothing critical is really missing. Suppose it really isn't beta any longer. That doesnt mean there won't be continual software updates at something like 3 or 4 a month. Adding features and then fixing minor bugs related to those new features as users discover them. Udates are really simple to install. if i can do it, even Tryg can do it.

Any word on when RGBHV will be available?

We estimate that we will add the RGBHV input in about three weeks.

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

Thanks! I'll keep an eye out.

Recently various features in the Gennum chip used in the Radiance have been enabled.

Can anyone shed some insight into the adaptive contrast enhancement feature?

I use it when watching HD sports setting it to 3 for my FP CRT. Seems to brighten the image in a cleaning sort of way without really affecting the blacks very much.

Technically what does the feature do?

Also how about the sharpening and texture controls, three each?

The sharpening controls produce very nice results (with minimal ringing in patterns) if they are used moderately. I like them at +10 (horizontal and vertical) with a JVC HD-1.
Still experimenting though...

Recently various features in the Gennum chip used in the radiance have been enabled.

Can anyone shed some insight into the adaptive contrast enhancement feature?

Iuse it when watching HD sports setting it to 3 for my FP CRT. Seems to brighten the image in a cleaning sort of way without really affecting the blacks very much.

technically what does the feature do/

Alsohow about the sharpening and texture controls, three each?

The contrast enhancement to me looks like it's applying an S-curve (eg like you might use in Photoshop to add contrast) to the image though I haven't measured it to confirm. I see black and white crushing when it's used and have it turned off in my system.

Texture sharpening seems to increase contrast within areas of image detail and can be used to "sharpen" without adding ringing to edges. The traditional sharpening filter works on edges and will add ringing if abused.

Mark

If you crank the contrast enhancement, the whites will crush or clip. When watching basketball, a moderate use, say 1 to 3, seems to brighten the floor or clean it up. Its like someone washed the floor. Makes it look more real.

I don't think its an S curve. First the settings 1 to 15. various S's? Second I think its reads the image within the high lighted set up square and adapts to the image received such as an alg to adjust an iris dynamically but instead of an iris its applying a varying gamma or gamma curve?

Recently various features in the Gennum chip used in the Radiance have been enabled.

Can anyone shed some insight into the adaptive contrast enhancement feature?

I use it when watching HD sports setting it to 3 for my FP CRT. Seems to brighten the image in a cleaning sort of way without really affecting the blacks very much.

Technically what does the feature do?

Also how about the sharpening and texture controls, three each?

I think the advanced video adjustments are great. I like sharp, crisp PQ regardless of the "directors intent" and the sharpening/texture controls allow me to apply my own directors intent. I usually use a +2 or +3 for all 720p and 1080i HDTV sources on both sharpening and texture. The only downside is that some local news anchors really show their age. I also use ~+3 for the enhanced contrast setting. On my 65" 1080p Panny plasma, this setting appears to deepen blacks and whiten whites without any apparent crushing. The overall result is a much needed 3D like effect. For BD and good SD DVD sources, I usually leave the contrast enhancement at ~+3 and vary the others as needed to suit my taste e.g. the 1st. 3 Harry Potter movies no longer look soft and there's is no ringing or edge enhancement unless you really crank the settings up to the max. I find that the various filters can make a poor PQ SD DVD watchable.

I am using an HTPC with a ATI X1950pro (with latest catalyst drivers) as my primary HD source (BR/HD-DVD via Powerdvd ultra) , outputting to a JVC HD-1 and a Pioneer Kuro 5080XD.
Which are the recommended settings for the Radiance (with latest firmware) for the HTPC scenario?
-Input level: Video or PC? It passes BB/AW with both of them
-Video Edid: default, Passback out1, passback out2 or used defined? No matter what I select, the Ati catalyst driver does not report 1080p24 in its properties, and I have to use powerstrip to give that timing.
-Hotplug mode: Normal or Always on?
-Output config type: Ycbcr 444,Ycbcr 422,RGB pc level or RGB video level? It seems to have no problem with any of these types.

Finally, I seem to have an issue with my JVC HD-1 (and not my Pioneer) when I am feeding it with 1080p50 and 1080p60: The image is distorted with static and the lumagen cannot lock properly. This is not happening when I am directly connecting the JVC with the HTPC. Also, I have no problem whatsoever, when I am sending 1080p24 to the lumagen.

I would appreciate any help with the above.

If you crank the contrast enhancement, the whites will crush or clip. When watching basketball, a moderate use, say 1 to 3, seems to brighten the floor or clean it up. Its like someone washed the floor. Makes it look more real.

I don't think its an S curve. First the settings 1 to 15. various S's? Second I think its reads the image within the high lighted set up square and adapts to the image received such as an alg to adjust an iris dynamically but instead of an iris its applying a varying gamma or gamma curve?


Exactly what I found yesterday. Watching NCAA and Phoenix Suns games,
using the 1 setting cleaned up the floor nicely, but going beyond that
seemed like excessive wiping!!@@

QUICK QUESTION RE: " Settings for SD DVD and anamorphic lens

In setting up my Radiance, I finally tried out an SD DVD last night. I have been watching so much BD and HD DVD, I haven't bothered with SD DVD.

I threw in 2.40 aspect Gladiator on SD DVD.

My settings are identical to my Blu Ray / HD DVD settings for squeezing the image and having my ISCO lens uncompress things (2.35 input aspect)

However, the SD DVD image looked stretched or distorted... Is there a a difference in how the BD and SD DVD images are stored on the discs that might explain this. Do I need new settings for my SD DVD input?

How should I set my DVD input on my Radiance for using my Anamorphic lens with SD DVDs?

QUICK QUESTION RE: " Settings for SD DVD and anamorphic lens

In setting up my Radiance, I finally tried out an SD DVD last night. I have been watching so much BD and HD DVD, I haven't bothered with SD DVD.

I threw in 2.40 aspect Gladiator on SD DVD.

My settings are identical to my Blu Ray / HD DVD settings for squeezing the image and having my ISCO lens uncompress things (2.35 input aspect)

However, the SD DVD image looked stretched or distorted... Is there a a difference in how the BD and SD DVD images are stored on the discs that might explain this. Do I need new settings for my SD DVD input?

How should I set my DVD input on my Radiance for using my Anamorphic lens with SD DVDs?

Jeff:

I have never played with an anamorphic lense but is it possible that your SD DVD is being output as 480i which means that the Lumagen is the considering to be a 4:3 image" whin in turn means that the Lumagen is "double manupulating" the image to 16:9 and then to 2.35:1 instead of just 2.35:1...perhap the easiest way to test this is to have your SD DVD player put out a 720p image JUST FOR TESTING to determine whether this is the problem...

HTH....

SD DVD uses an anamorphic squeeze for 2:35 but BD does not use anamorphic formatting.

Case anyone doesn't know, the CMS under the service menu has single numeric gamma settings. The overall gamma one gets is the number cranked in (0.85 to 1.25 in .05 steps). In essence the curve number applied divided by the camera gamma of 2.2 The ideal gamma from viewer studies done in the 50 or 60s is about 1.15. Whether one can use such a high gamma depends on the display device's on/off CR. With CRTs, no problem. Crank it in. With digitals one is limited by on/off CRs in the 10000 or so range for most projectors. The RS2 is the exception with a real on/off of about 35,000 enabeling the use of JVC gamma settings of 2.2 to 2.4. Divide those by 2.2 to get the real system gamma.

Once again updated the feature list. Since it can be difficult to tell what changed, here's the scoop:

- the following is now implemented; Copy input memory, Linear gamma for color-gamut control, Copy output configuration, Label input memory
- added back; Input 7 to 10 type select (add RGBHV, RGBS, RGsB) (this was in the 'already implemented' list, apparently a mistake. I didn't follow that one closely since I do not use these input types.)
- added the virtual input functionality to the after release list (This will let you use a single physical input but treat it as different, separate inputs. Very useful if you have a preamp or receiver in front of the XD, in which case multiple sources might be sent to the XD via a single input.)

(I will go over the feature list again shortly, as I noticed a couple discrepancies with the list that Jim is maintaining on the beta forum.)

As you can see, there isn't much left planned for the 'before release' functionality. That means an official release isn't too far off now. This is one piece of equipment that wasn't rushed to the market to say the least - and I mean that in the best possible way. The XD's been extremely reliable from day 1 for me, despite having bought the unit somewhat early in the beta program. In fact, I can't remember ever encountering a show stopping issue, crash or the like. All serious bugs (most of the time having to do with the CMS or rendering) were dealt with promptly; it hasn't been rare to see 2 or 3 updates in a row to fix that kind of annoyances. When more time passed between updates, that simply meant that Lumagen was adding new features. Anyhow, the point is that this device is incredibly reliable, and official release buyers should be pleased (although a little bird told me the price is going up when that happens; if you can still get in with the "beta" price, I'd highly recommend you do that.)

Under service menu CMS, single point (one number (0.85 to 1.25 in .05 increments)) system gamma curve input is available.

Under service menu CMS, single point (one number (0.85 to 1.25 in .05 increments)) system gamma curve input is available.

Isn't that the functionality listed under "Linear gamma for color-gamut control"? I'm still trying to wrap my brains around the whole linear gamma thing.

SD DVD uses an anamorphic squeeze for 2:35 but BD does not use anamorphic formatting.

So, how would I set this up? 16:9 INput AR?

It says game and gives you the option of plugging in 0.85 to 1.25 in .05 increments. One can still use multipoint custom gamma curves but this is a plug and play gamma curve application similar to whats built into the JVC RS2 projector and other projectors with numeric curve gamma settings.

Blu-ray, HD-DVD and Standard def DVD's store 2.35 movies in a letterbox with the correct size black bars encoded on the top and bottom to make a 16:9 image.

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

I can't tell what your configuration is for SD DVD. Are you playing the SD discs in one of the HD players and the HD discs are formatted correctly but the SD discs are squeezed?

QUICK QUESTION RE: " Settings for SD DVD and anamorphic lens

In setting up my Radiance, I finally tried out an SD DVD last night. I have been watching so much BD and HD DVD, I haven't bothered with SD DVD.

I threw in 2.40 aspect Gladiator on SD DVD.

My settings are identical to my Blu Ray / HD DVD settings for squeezing the image and having my ISCO lens uncompress things (2.35 input aspect)

However, the SD DVD image looked stretched or distorted... Is there a a difference in how the BD and SD DVD images are stored on the discs that might explain this. Do I need new settings for my SD DVD input?

How should I set my DVD input on my Radiance for using my Anamorphic lens with SD DVDs?

It could be that hd material is a 1080p signal and dvd is 480i/p, so if you dont have your player upscaling to that same 1080p as you hd material it will do what your saying. So if you want to use the Lumagen to do the scaling you will need to set up a seperate memory for that input to accomodate the 480 signal of SD DVD.

Athanasios

Just some insight on programming the Radiance for Anamorphic lenses using a CIH setup (with masking screen):

Set the output AR to 1.78 (16:9).

Play a 2.35:1 movie and press pause.

Press 2.35 button on the Lumagen remote.

Make certain you move your lens in front of the projector lens.

Adjust the input cropping so that the 2.35 image fills the 2.35 screen and save it for "This aspect". You will need to make a large adjustment to uncrop the left and right sides of the image so that it fills the screen. Press "Menu, Input, Video Setup, [resolution], Size, 2.35, Crop TopLeft/Crop BotRght, Ok, This aspect, Ok"
*Basically you are un-cropping the image, as your left and right numbers are negative.

Make sure you save it.

Now when watching 2.35 the trigger 2 will work for the lens transport (if it's configured for 2.35).

Previously, I had to use the letterbox button on the lumagen remote with my lens in place. This prevented my trigger from moving the lens. Now it works nice.

Our customer's electronic masking and lens work perfect now.

*Thank to Randy for the heads up on this one

Thanks, Jim.. I'll give it a go! Makes sense.

I do have the trigger for 2.35. So, this set up would be very helpful.

Hi Jim,

The first step in your procedure should read, "set the output aspect ratio to 1.78 (16:9)".

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

At this point in the product's development I think about 90% of the menu functions are operational. Nothing critical is really missing.

The lack of Chroma Delay is killing me. How anyone with any kind of a critical eye that does not crave this feature is beyond me. CD is not only different with each source but title to title on movies. This one was moved to the back burner, cant wait for this one. At that point I would consider the more important features addressed.

It's planned for after release.

We have posted two new technical tips for the Radiance.

http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=manuals

Tip2- Gamut Calibration
Tip3- Movable Anamorphic Lens

Let us know if there is a subject that you would like us to address in a technical tip.

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

Is there still thought of adding a primary offset feature, to help compensate for slight misaligned projector panels?

We have posted two new technical tips for the Radiance.

http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=manuals

Tip2- Gamut Calibration
Tip3- Movable Anamorphic Lens

Let us know if there is a subject that you would like us to address in a technical tip.

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

I think a tip sheet on the Enhancement settings and what they accomplish would be helpfull, the differnce between horizontal, vertical, diagonal sharpness and texture....

Is there still thought of adding a primary offset feature, to help compensate for slight misaligned projector panels?

At best it's a "maybe". I think Jim's indicated that the XD's FPGA didn't have enough gates to take on this feature, and that it would be considered for the RadiancePro. If it were to make its way into the XD, it might just be the horizontal or vertical offset.

It *would* be cool though. :D

Any tips for improving security cameras picture through S Video - I get all kind of hum and wavy picture which I don't get in computer access of cameras through internet or on my 13 inch CRT security monitors....

The hum and wavy lines on your security camera are most likely due to a ground loop. This could be caused by plugging the power supply for the cameras into a different AC circuit than the Radiance. As an experiment you can try using a cheater plug to disconnect the power ground on the Radiance or the cameras. Of course, Lumagen always recommends that you follow all the electrical codes and safety requirements in your area.

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

Randy:

Any word on when the next update will be available? I am looking forward to NLS function being activated!!!

The NLS button is implemented in the latest software to stretch 4:3 images to 16:9. We made it a two button sequence because, later, we will also implement a 16:9 to 2.35 stretch.

To use NLS display a 4:3 image on a 16:9 screen. First press the "4:3" input aspect ratio button to display the image with black bars on each side. Next press the "NLS" button to stretch the image to fill the screen.

The NLS button is implemented in the latest software to stretch 4:3 images to 16:9. We made it a two button sequence because, later, we will also implement a 16:9 to 2.35 stretch.

To use NLS display a 4:3 image on a 16:9 screen. First press the "4:3" input aspect ratio button to display the image with black bars on each side. Next press the "NLS" button to stretch the image to fill the screen.

Does this already work, or is there another way to get NLS to work stretching a 4:3 image that is encoded as 16:9 with the black bars built in? (i.e. SD broadcasts on a HD station)

This question concerns using the Radiance to drive multiple (slightly different) displays simultaneously--not at different times, as discussed in one of Lumagen's recent tech notes.

Our main HT projector is a JVC RS1, connected to a Denon AVR-4306 receiver for audio; the remote display is a Pioneer Kuro plasma with its built-in speakers used for audio. Both displays accept the same video signal formats (including 1080p24 and 1080p60). I want to use the two HDMI outputs of the Radiance to drive both displays at the same time. The problem is their different handling of audio.

I want to be able to watch content on the RS1 with full multi-channel sound, and simultaneously have it displayed on the Kuro, but with down-mixed two-channel sound.

It's easy to configure the Radiance to send multi-channel audio over HDMI, and that works fine in the HT, but the Kuro can't handle that and the resulting audio is broken in one way or another (absent, or missing the center channel, or something).

What I need is something (preferably inexpensive) to place before the Kuro that will accept the multi-channel LPCM audio and down-mix it to two-channel audio for presentation (with video, of course) to the Kuro over HDMI.

Would an inexpensive HDMI-capable receiver (like, say, the Onkyo TX-SR605) be able to do this? I've read the manual and it has HDMI audio output, but it sounds like it will only pass through the signal that it receives.

Alternatively--and this would be much less desirable--could a receiver like this be used to down-mix a multi-channel LPCM signal and drive a couple of speakers with the result?

Or can you only get two-channel out if the source is configured (explicitly or via EDID negotiation) to send two-channel?

The asymmetry is a real problem for me at the moment.

I thought of using one of the Yamaha "sound bar" things to process the multi-channel audio and create a multi-channel sound image at the Kuro. That would be the best result, but those devices (last I checked) were priced in the $2,000 range, and I'd like to spend a lot less on a solution for this.

If you send dolby digital instead of LPCM it should work.

If you send dolby digital instead of LPCM it should work.Because the Kuro can handle Dolby Digital directly, you mean? (I didn't know that, if it's true.)

This solution wouldn't require any additional equipment at all, which is certainly cheapest.

The problem is that some sources are LPCM (like Blu-Ray or HD-DVD output), so I could only use it some of the time. Still, this is useful info (thanks). I'll check it out.

But is there no A/V receiver (or equivalent) solution that could accept LPCM and down-mix it?

(I checked out the Yamaha offerings again, by the way: the cheapest HDMI-capable solution is the YSP-3000, but it still costs around $1,000.)

The NLS button is implemented in the latest software to stretch 4:3 images to 16:9. We made it a two button sequence because, later, we will also implement a 16:9 to 2.35 stretch.

To use NLS display a 4:3 image on a 16:9 screen. First press the "4:3" input aspect ratio button to display the image with black bars on each side. Next press the "NLS" button to stretch the image to fill the screen.

I have a scope set up, so the real use is the 16x9 to 2.35:1 stretch that I am needing. When will the later be implemented?

Thanks

You can try using the present NLS function for stretching 16:9 to 2.35.

1. Play a 16:9 movie.
2. Slide the anamorphic lens in front of the projector.
3. Set the output aspect to 1.78 (16:9).
4. Press the "4:3" button.
5. Press the "NLS" button.

The presently NLS is optimized for stretching 4:3 to 16:9 but it should be do a reasonable job of stretching 16:9 to 2.35. Please let us know how it looks.

You can try using the present NLS function for stretching 16:9 to 2.35.

1. Play a 16:9 movie.
2. Slide the anamorphic lens in front of the projector.
3. Set the output aspect to 1.78 (16:9).
4. Press the "4:3" button.
5. Press the "NLS" button.

The presently NLS is optimized for stretching 4:3 to 16:9 but it should be do a reasonable job of stretching 16:9 to 2.35. Please let us know how it looks.

Randy:

Once my projector screen clears customs (a horror story for another time) and I get it mounted, I will try it.

Ron

Because the Kuro can handle Dolby Digital directly, you mean? (I didn't know that, if it's true.)

This solution wouldn't require any additional equipment at all, which is certainly cheapest.)

My 4280 handles it just fine.

can any one help me ?

Why i get no sound when using the cable tv ( analog input sound + Analog video ?
What is wrong ? or any other setting should i use ?

Thanks.

How far is the Radiance from post-beta Production status?

The Radiance hardware has been at production level for a long time. The Radiance software is very close to production. We just have a few smaller items to finish before we can switch the Radinace from beta to production status.

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

I have been out of the loop on the radiance for a little while now. Are all promised features available now and working?

I have been out of the loop on the radiance for a little while now. Are all promised features available now and working?

See the list of features implemented and to come in the FAQ (in my sig).

Well I hooked up a Radiance today and got the color gamut thing to work but I can't get it to allow the BD30 to pass a 1080p24 signal no matter what I do. Any ideas? I already turned off every thing but 1080p24 in the EDID menu and I even tried the pass back thing, no luck.

Did you cycle the Radiance on and off as well?

See the list of features implemented and to come in the FAQ (in my sig).

Wow! Nice... :)

Another tiny update; just keeping up with new firmware releases at this point. NLS is in, which will make plasma owners very happy :). Only a couple more features to implement before production release.

Well I hooked up a Radiance today and got the color gamut thing to work but I can't get it to allow the BD30 to pass a 1080p24 signal no matter what I do. Any ideas? I already turned off every thing but 1080p24 in the EDID menu and I even tried the pass back thing, no luck.

Yea Kris. I have had these issues too - see the beta forum. Yet using a Zektor switcher no problem.

They just did a new software for default EDID 24p but I haven't tried it yet.

We have posted two new technical tips for the Radiance.

Tip2- Gamut Calibration
Tip3- Movable Anamorphic Lens

Let us know if there is a subject that you would like us to address in a technical tip.

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

Tip 3 suggests support only for moveable lenses. Is the Radiance is OK in a CIH fixed VC anamorphic lens setup? I have a 2.35 screen with horizontal masking (moving in from the sides) but don't have the cash for a motorized lens mount now I've ordered the XD...

"Is the Radiance is OK in a CIH fixed VC anamorphic lens setup? I have a 2.35 screen with horizontal masking (moving in from the sides) but don't have the cash for a motorized lens mount now I've ordered the XD..."

Yes, this is easy to do. Simply set the output AR to 2.35 and leave the lens in place all the time. When you are watching 4:3 material hit the 4:3 input AR button on the remote. When it is 16:9 hit that 16:9 button on the remote... 2.35 hit 2.35.

Shawn

Great - Thanks for clarification Shawn!

I am looking for a source device for my Radiance that can read media files and output interlaced signal for the VP to process. I am curious to know what devices are you using since an HTPC only output progressive signal.

I am looking for a source device for my Radiance that can read media files and output interlaced signal for the VP to process. I am curious to know what devices are you using since an HTPC only output progressive signal.

My ATI 1950pro card can output interlaced signal. Ifeed it with 1080i for 1080i material.

My ATI 1950pro card can output interlaced signal. Ifeed it with 1080i for 1080i material.
Does that really work well? In all my tests (done 1-3 years ago, though) outputting interlaced from the graphics card technically worked ok, but matching every interlaced field of an interlaced source to an interlaced output field of the graphics card didn't work properly. My impression was that the renderer always wants to do progressive. So if you set the graphics card to interlaced output, the renderer converts the interlaced source to progressive and then the graphics card outputs the progressive frames from the renderer as interlaced fields. I'm not 100% sure on this, but that was my impression...

Does that really work well? In all my tests (done 1-3 years ago, though) outputting interlaced from the graphics card technically worked ok, but matching every interlaced field of an interlaced source to an interlaced output field of the graphics card didn't work properly. My impression was that the renderer always wants to do progressive. So if you set the graphics card to interlaced output, the renderer converts the interlaced source to progressive and then the graphics card outputs the progressive frames from the renderer as interlaced fields. I'm not 100% sure on this, but that was my impression...

You might be right, I haven't really played a lot with that...
I mainly use 1080p24fps material.

Does that really work well? In all my tests (done 1-3 years ago, though) outputting interlaced from the graphics card technically worked ok, but matching every interlaced field of an interlaced source to an interlaced output field of the graphics card didn't work properly. My impression was that the renderer always wants to do progressive. So if you set the graphics card to interlaced output, the renderer converts the interlaced source to progressive and then the graphics card outputs the progressive frames from the renderer as interlaced fields. I'm not 100% sure on this, but that was my impression...

I had similar experience in the past. Highly doubt things are different today.
Hence I am looking for stand alone device for the XD.
I read the TVIX can output 576i/1080i and read/stream from HDD. I am sure there are different devices as well. I am curious what forum members are currently using with their XD.

I had similar experience in the past. Highly doubt things are different today.
Hence I am looking for stand alone device for the XD.
I read the TVIX can output 576i/1080i and read/stream from HDD. I am sure there are different devices as well. I am curious what forum members are currently using with their XD.
Personally, I'm still using my HTPC only right now. The DScaler IVTC mod does a really good job on MPEG2 1080i60 movie sources. And that's really all the interlaced HD content I have. I don't like the TVIX cause it has a fan. The NMT devices would be interesting, but they don't support VC-1 in Matroska, so they're no go for me, either. Still waiting for a media player which can replace my HTPC. Didn't find it yet. If you're looking mainly at 576i/1080i MPEG2 stuff, you could probably not go wrong with either TVIX or NMT (e.g. Popcorn Hour).

I've asked on the NMT forums for an output mode which always switches the NMT box to the native output format of the source device (576i50 for 576i50 sources and 1080i60 for 1080i60 sources etc), but didn't get a reply from the NMT guys. I think the media player guys don't worry much about what would be good for us people with an external video processor... :(

The NMT (Popcorn Hour) lacks a native mode (as you point out) but as far as I can tell it will not output 480i or 576i over HDMI at all--though it will do 1080i.

The TViX 4100 also lacks a native mode. It can be configured to output 480i, 576i, or 1080i (tediously), but the 480i/576i modes lack HDMI audio--a serious problem for me since I'm trying to use HDMI exclusively for both video and audio. If you use the digital audio output of the TViX this may not matter to you.

The newer 6500 may behave differently, but I don't own one yet so I don't know.

For 480i/576i sources I've chosen to use the PS3, which (being a "supercomputer") does a very good job indeed on this content. Most surprising to me is how well the PS3 does with 576i/50Hz captures: it outputs it at 1080p60, but even so I see little evidence of the judder or stutter that I normally expect to see when 50Hz content is converted to 60Hz. And the image is very detailed considering the source.

Off topic to Lumagen but can I hook my server up to my PS3 to play back my mpeg2 ts HD files? Will it play file to file seamless? Im currently using the TVIX but it does not have the horse power to jump from file to file seamless. Also if the PS3 does allow this can it output 108i files as 1080p 24?

Thank you!

"Is the Radiance is OK in a CIH fixed VC anamorphic lens setup? I have a 2.35 screen with horizontal masking (moving in from the sides) but don't have the cash for a motorized lens mount now I've ordered the XD..."

Yes, this is easy to do. Simply set the output AR to 2.35 and leave the lens in place all the time. When you are watching 4:3 material hit the 4:3 input AR button on the remote. When it is 16:9 hit that 16:9 button on the remote... 2.35 hit 2.35.

Shawn

Is there a way to detect the source format (black bars detection) in order to switch automagically between 4:3, 16:9 and 2.35:1 instead ?

Richard.

You can try using the present NLS function for stretching 16:9 to 2.35.

1. Play a 16:9 movie.
2. Slide the anamorphic lens in front of the projector.
3. Set the output aspect to 1.78 (16:9).
4. Press the "4:3" button.
5. Press the "NLS" button.

The presently NLS is optimized for stretching 4:3 to 16:9 but it should be do a reasonable job of stretching 16:9 to 2.35. Please let us know how it looks.

NLS works very well, tested on a 65pf10, ps3 BR movie using 16:9 then (4:3 NLS combo), H/V black bars still present, 2" in size, no loss of image or overscan.

Looking forward to the tweaked 16:9 to enable no BBars's - full screen, thanks!

Just got my Radiance and I don't have access to the beta forum yet so I'll ask a question here.

I used the CMS to dial in the primaries to near perfection. I was also able to dial in the hue and saturation of the secondaries with no problems. However, I see no way to adjust the lightness of the secondaries. Since this parameter is apparently not derived from the primaries (as you would think it would be), they need independent adjustment. Yellow and Cyan were actually slightly LESS accurate after calibrating because their lightness was raised. It looks like the CMS is 3D with respect to the primaries, but only 2D with respect to the secondaries.

BTW, I just wanted to say that I was concerned about adding a processor between the source and my new 1080p plasma, which has great sharpness and depth. In any case, I needn't have worried. Putting the Radiance in the signal path actually seemed to increase the apparent resolution, detail, and depth.

Off topic to Lumagen but can I hook my server up to my PS3 to play back my mpeg2 ts HD files? Will it play file to file seamless? Im currently using the TVIX but it does not have the horse power to jump from file to file seamless. Also if the PS3 does allow this can it output 108i files as 1080p 24?!

Unfortunately not; for some reason I've never understood, the PS3 does not detect AC3 audio in a TS file. Video (at least with the latest firmware releases) is perfect, but most of my HD captures (movies and TV shows in MPEG2 TS files with AC3 audio) are unusable with the PS3 for this reason.

I was very excited about the media player capabilities of the PS3 when they were first introduced--it's one reason I chose to get the PS3 instead of another Blu-Ray player. I thought that it could become the full-featured media player that I had been (and still am) waiting for. But the audio limitations mean that I can only use it for a few things.

It's a nice interface when it works, providing flawless FF and REW features that never seem to work at all with other players.

And I haven't been able to make it output 1080p24 for these files, either--that feature seems to work only with Blu-Ray disc playback.

Nor (I think) will it do the file-to-file playback (I believe it plays one and then stops), though I myself gave up some time ago on keeping TS captures as separate files because it increasingly became a niche capability, and with tools like VideoRedo it became easy to rewrite them as single files when necessary.

BTW, I just wanted to say that I was concerned about adding a processor between the source and my new 1080p plasma, which has great sharpness and depth. In any case, I needn't have worried. Putting the Radiance in the signal path actually seemed to increase the apparent resolution, detail, and depth.
With the 10-bit processing and up to 12-bit (4:2:2) output, it definitely helps in preserving the fidelity of the source material.

Bill

Thank you Ron. You've saved me some time having to find this out on my own.

Is there a way to detect the source format (black bars detection) in order to switch automagically between 4:3, 16:9 and 2.35:1 instead ?

No, it is not automatic.

Shawn

No, it is not automatic.

Shawn

Why not ?

Can't that be a function of the video processor ?

Richard.

I thought read that the Lumagen would be able to read the meta data from the HDMI link and determine and switch aspects on Blu Ray discs. Not true?

I thought read that the Lumagen would be able to read the meta data from the HDMI link and determine and switch aspects on Blu Ray discs. Not true?

This is a planned feature, not implemented yet. The hdmi flag is supposedly not that reliable.

Just got my Radiance and I don't have access to the beta forum yet so I'll ask a question here.


Wow...welcome to the club...enjoy!




I used the CMS to dial in the primaries to near perfection. I was also able to dial in the hue and saturation of the secondaries with no problems. However, I see no way to adjust the lightness of the secondaries. Since this parameter is apparently not derived from the primaries (as you would think it would be), they need independent adjustment. Yellow and Cyan were actually slightly LESS accurate after calibrating because their lightness was raised. It looks like the CMS is 3D with respect to the primaries, but only 2D with respect to the secondaries.


Not sure what you are experiencing here as I am able to use the controls to dial in the secondaries almost perfectly...the trick is patience as it has -- at least in my case -- always involved adjusting all three parameters in some combination to get things right which is functional but admittedly trickier than the primaries!




BTW, I just wanted to say that I was concerned about adding a processor between the source and my new 1080p plasma, which has great sharpness and depth. In any case, I needn't have worried. Putting the Radiance in the signal path actually seemed to increase the apparent resolution, detail, and depth.


Congrats on the new plasma..what did you get?

HTH

Just got my Radiance and I don't have access to the beta forum yet so I'll ask a question here.

I used the CMS to dial in the primaries to near perfection. I was also able to dial in the hue and saturation of the secondaries with no problems. However, I see no way to adjust the lightness of the secondaries. Since this parameter is apparently not derived from the primaries (as you would think it would be), they need independent adjustment. Yellow and Cyan were actually slightly LESS accurate after calibrating because their lightness was raised. It looks like the CMS is 3D with respect to the primaries, but only 2D with respect to the secondaries.

BTW, I just wanted to say that I was concerned about adding a processor between the source and my new 1080p plasma, which has great sharpness and depth. In any case, I needn't have worried. Putting the Radiance in the signal path actually seemed to increase the apparent resolution, detail, and depth.

Tom, you adjust the lightness of secondaries by reducing the amount of primaries in each while keeping them balanced to achieve correct x,y.

Gordon

Tom, you adjust the lightness of secondaries by reducing the amount of primaries in each while keeping them balanced to achieve correct x,y.

Gordon

Does't green influence lightness the most?

Wow...welcome to the club...enjoy!

Congrats on the new plasma..what did you get?Panasonic TH-50PZ85U. Very nice.

BTW, I would have thought I would have heard something about your new PJ. Didn't you have the S2 installed last weekend?

Tom, you adjust the lightness of secondaries by reducing the amount of primaries in each while keeping them balanced to achieve correct x,y.Gordon, thanks. This makes sense. I'll try it tonight.

If this works, my ONLY beef with the Radiance CMS is the human interface, which is unnecessarily complex.

For example, instead of reducing the saturation of green by independently reducing two controls (Red and Blue), why not have a single Green Saturation control that reduces both equally? For Green Hue adjustments why not have a single Hue control that moves towards red in one direction and blue in the other? I would label the Subtract Green control Green Lightness. A human interface should label controls according to how they affect the image, not according to what occurs behind the scenes. It would cut the adjustment time in half.

For the secondaries, say Yellow, just have a single Hue control that adds red in one direction and green in the other. Also, re-label the Add Blue control as Saturation and then have a Lightness control that subtracts equal parts of red and green.

These are just usability suggestions. Functionally, it seems to work flawlessly.

"EDID supports 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 HDMI video input modes"

Is there a visible difference feeding the XD 4:2:2 rather than 4:4:4?

"EDID supports 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 HDMI video input modes"

Is there a visible difference feeding the XD 4:2:2 rather than 4:4:4?

I'm sure there are test patterns that would show the difference, but from my experience on real world material - no.

"Why not ?"

'Cause it doesn't do it. ;)

"Can't that be a function of the video processor ?"

Perhaps, but it could also get tripped up big time. Think of all the aspect ratio changes when you go from the menu of a movie, to the Interpol message,etc..etc to the actual movie itself. Then what happens when you have a movie with subtitles in the black bars...etc...etc. Do you want it to keep changing the AR on all of those switches or do you want it to have some delay before it switches?

Hitting the appropriate AR button at the start of a movie isn't much of an issue.

Shawn

"A human interface should label controls according to how they affect the image, not according to what occurs behind the scenes."

But that is exactly what they do. Watch the adjustments in real time on the color triangle while you adjust the image. Say you are adjusting green and need to move the target toward red. You add red...etc..etc.

You basically calibrate hue and saturation together at the same time instead of doing one then the other. I realize it is different then what some others use but once you get accustomed to it it is 6 of one half a dozen of another.

Shawn

"A human interface should label controls according to how they affect the image, not according to what occurs behind the scenes."

You basically calibrate hue and saturation together at the same time instead of doing one then the other. I realize it is different then what some others use but once you get accustomed to it it is 6 of one half a dozen of another.I suppose that one can become accustomed to anything. My point was that when your need is to adjust saturation, the UI should provide a SATURATION control. Adding equal parts of the other two primaries only has that as an effect. It's like labeling a light switch "circuit completion control" rather than just "on/off." Label it according to the final result, not according to the technical process that gets you there. It also requires double the labor that a unified saturation control would. Even worse, the method for adjusting lightness of the secondaries wasn't clear to me, and I've been doing this stuff for years. It's a UI that looks like it was written by and for a color science engineer.

But, hey, it is not a huge complaint. I mean it works very nicely. It could just be made more user friendly.

Tom, you should join the Lumagen Beta forum. There are tons of useful information and the guys in Lumagen are very helpful and eager to answer all our questions, simple or not...

Tom,

"I suppose that one can become accustomed to anything."

It makes sense when you look at it on a color triangle as simply moving the target in the direction you want.

"It also requires double the labor that a unified saturation control would."

Not really because at the same time you are also correcting hue. So instead of doing saturation with one control then hue with a different control you do both at the same time.

Shawn

Tom, you should join the Lumagen Beta forum. There are tons of useful information and the guys in Lumagen are very helpful and eager to answer all our questions, simple or not...Believe me, I am trying.

Hi Tom. If you are using the Radience RS1 combo I would be interected in hearing your thoughts when its all dialled in.
For my own observations I was able to get near perfect rec 709 for all primaries and secondaries for x y and Y. I also got near perfect D65 greyscale and perfectly flat logarithmic 2.2 Gamma
However in real world viewing all colours seem too bright to me. It looks as if the colour control on the RS1 is set too high ( orange faces in low apl scenes etc )

Hi Tom. If you are using the Radience RS1 combo I would be interected in hearing your thoughts when its all dialled in.
For my own observations I was able to get near perfect rec 709 for all primaries and secondaries for x y and Y. I also got near perfect D65 greyscale and perfectly flat logarithmic 2.2 Gamma
However in real world viewing all colours seem too bright to me. It looks as if the colour control on the RS1 is set too high ( orange faces in low apl scenes etc )Naw, my PJ has a built-in CMS. I bought it for use with a new Panasonic plasma that I just got. The results are startling. I am even more impressed with the clarity, detail, and depth I get than with the results of the CMS, where I already pretty much knew what to expect.

Have you checked the color decoding? If it is not grayscale or gamut, that's the only other suspect.

Edit: Whoops. I see you had already checked the Y reading. I can't think what else would cause orange faces.

Tom,
I also have a panny plasma hooked up to my XD. Just curious, what instrument(s) do you use for taking measurements?
Thanks,
Laggs

Tom,
I also have a panny plasma hooked up to my XD. Just curious, what instrument(s) do you use for taking measurements?X-Rite i1Pro + one of several calibration software packages.

i1 Pro + Calman

Looking to use 1ipro and DTP-94 when i get a minute.

Can we (export) our settings/calibrations to a file for safe keeping yet.
Of course we need to be able to re-import them

I guess there's so much info in the faq that it's easy to miss, but it's there. "Upload/download configuration to/from PC" is planned for after release.

Could anyone please comment on the "known" Radiance issue/image degredation being talked about in this thread ?

Around post #1082

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13725163&posted=1#post13725163

D

Scaling by definition softens an image. I believe that's all they are talking about. At least with my eyes, it's not detectable at normal viewing distances.

The only place it bothers me is when I switch to a PC input. Thin lines get blurred and look like mud. My old CII doesn't do this (at least, I don't remember it doing it, it's been ages since I used it)

Chris.

Could anyone please comment on the "known" Radiance issue/image degredation being talked about in this thread ?

Around post #1082

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13725163&posted=1#post13725163

D

I have seen some problem with choppiness with Auto, so I use through.

- Rich

I have seen some problem with choppiness with Auto, so I use through.

- Rich

RichB

Sorry you lost me on that one. What does Auto and through apply to ?

D

RichB

Sorry you lost me on that one. What does Auto and through apply to ?

D

The HDMI Monitor resolution.

- Rich

As of the 042308 release we have all the features on the "to-do by production" list completed. We will be spending a couple of weeks on "under-the-hood" enhancements. Then we will do the long-awaited "production candidate" release. If people say that looks good we should --- finally --- be able to release the "production" RadianceXD software.

I should note that RadianceXD hardware has been at production level for about 9 months now. So, any unit can be upgraded to Production status with a free software download from our website.

We have a long list of features we will be adding over time, and of course we will do bug-fix releases as needed. We expect to do one to two software updates a month for some time. This is part of our "living product" approach to video processing.

Hi Tom. If you are using the Radience RS1 combo I would be interected in hearing your thoughts when its all dialled in.
For my own observations I was able to get near perfect rec 709 for all primaries and secondaries for x y and Y. I also got near perfect D65 greyscale and perfectly flat logarithmic 2.2 Gamma
However in real world viewing all colours seem too bright to me. It looks as if the colour control on the RS1 is set too high ( orange faces in low apl scenes etc )

I suspect strongly that the display/projector manufactures who have primary/secondary colors that are way off put in some color-decoder compensation to get flesh tones looking okay. I don't see how they can avoid this since people are most sensitive to correct flesh tones and they would be wrong otherwise. So, assuming I am correct, when you correct the primary/secondary colors, the display's color-decoder "corrections for flesh tones" become color-decoder-errors for flesh tones.

You can use the color/hue/offset controls in the Radiance to work toward better flesh tones. However, do be aware that there is a lot of interaction between the color/hue/offset control and changes made in the color cube corners. The Color control (which is in the YCbCr portion of our pipleline, which precedes and is independent from the RGB portion where gamut is done) does directly affect the saturation and will therefore directly affect you primary/secondary saturation. The Hue control (which I think is what you may need to adjust to get flesh tones tweaked, and which is also in the YCbCr portion of our pipleline) is a bit different in that it does not affect color near the primaries as well as it adjusts them further in, say up to the 75% color bar points (and including flesh tones). This is due to how the color conversion equations work between RGB and YCbCr.

However, I think using a bit of color/hue/offsets may allow you to improve flesh tones. You will need to recheck primary/secondary colors and then iterate the gamut and color/hue/offsets until you have flesh tones and primary/secondary colors in good shape.

Can I ask, is the CMS fully functional? how about gamma and grey scale parametric adjustments? ie. no bugs at all with this feature?

Is a Radiance with SDI still planned?

Hi,

I have the XD connected to my pio DVD and the JVC RS-2.
It is working great with 480i input and 1080p60 output. But when I change output to 1080p24, I got tearing with little horizontal lines on the side. What to do please!
I would like also to know if It is possible to bypass all processing like the embeded MNR (mosquito noise reduction) and let the XD only deinterlace and scale the signal.

Tkx, Sam

Presently the 1080p24 output resolution on the Radiance is only implemented for 1080p24 input. Sometime after the Radiance software is released to production we will implement the 1080p24 output for all input resolutions.

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

We just received the boards for the SDI to HDMI converter back from the assembly house. There are still a few months of development work remaining before we can ship out the first beta units.

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

Is a Radiance with SDI still planned?

The RadiancePro is still planned, but we do not have a schedule for it. It is planned to have one, or possibly two, SD/HD-SDI inputs.

If I were to buy a Radiance today, will it be HDMI 1.3 capable?

If I were to buy a Radiance today, will it be HDMI 1.3 capable?

No, HDMI 1.3 capability is still a few months away and -- just so you know -- at a higher price point in order of USD 1,000 more.

HTH

at a higher price point in order of USD 1,000 more.


Ouch

Will there be a upgrade path for those who have the current version of radiance XD with 1.2?

Will there be a upgrade path for those who have the current version of radiance XD with 1.2?

The current version is 1.1, not 1.2. An upgrade path will be proposed, it's been discussed on the beta forums.

Personally I'm going to pass. Now that the PS3 decodes everything, there's no reason whatsoever for me to upgrade to 1.3.

The current version is 1.1, not 1.2. An upgrade path will be proposed, it's been discussed on the beta forums.

Personally I'm going to pass. Now that the PS3 decodes everything, there's no reason whatsoever for me to upgrade to 1.3.

I totally agree.

Deep color would be one upgrade you would expect in 1.3 version....
That would be one reason to consider a 1.3 Radiance.