"Deep color would be one upgrade you would expect in 1.3 version....
That would be one reason to consider a 1.3 Radiance."

You are making a big assumption that the Radiance with 1.3 would support Deep Color. It would need much more processing to be able to.

The Radiance already has 12bit output now.

Shawn

Deep color would be one upgrade you would expect in 1.3 version....
That would be one reason to consider a 1.3 Radiance.

???

Why in the world would you need deep color? Do you have any sources?

it sounds like a drug deal. :) Do you have any sources? About the only source would be a video camcorder home movie. Besides HDMI 2.0 or whatever should be coming soon.

it sounds like a drug deal. :) Do you have any sources? About the only source would be a video camcorder home movie. Besides HDMI 2.0 or whatever should be coming soon.

Oh God. Because clearly, 1.1/1.2/1.3a/b/c wasn't causing enough consumer confusion. :)

Deep color would be one upgrade you would expect in 1.3 version....
That would be one reason to consider a 1.3 Radiance.I almost posted a message announcing indignantly that I wouldn't buy a non-1.3 Radiance because I HAD to have Deep Color and xvYCC color as a joke.

For what seems like the millionth time: Deep color and xvYCC color are currently unsupported by any commercial sources (xvYCC color is in a few camcorders) and they are unlikely to be to the foreseeable future. Although the standards are real and 1.3 does support them, 1.3 would have ZERO effect on image quality. At this stage it is largely a cynical marketing gimmick that sadly a lot of consumers have fallen for.

There is a reason that the HD Guru recently listed Deep Color and xvYCC color on his list of "scams, lies, and video ripoffs."

http://hdguru.com/the-10-worst-hdtv-scams-lies-and-video-ripoffs/235/

High-Def Digest also has a really good article patiently trying to explain to consumers how the value of 1.3 HDMI is extremely limited.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Joshua_Zyber/High-Def_FAQ/High-Def_FAQ:_Is_HDMI_1.3_Really_Necessary/853

I think delaying the purchase of a Radiance until the machine comes out of beta is not a meaningful decision. At this point its just semantics. Down loading upgrades is simple. As JRP says upgrades to software will soon become about once every two weeks. Regarding features to come, if you need something coming but not yet in there, then a big deal. For something to come that you don't need, no big deal. The machine is so nice now and it will only get better. Bugs will turn up with each new software but they get fixed quickly. Buy the damn thing, you won't be sorry.

I use a Crestron System RS 232 Interface for running the Radiance. It is a pain in the neck to take out the cable every time you want to upgrade.
I wish Radiance had two RS 232 ports or a front face usb type upgrade method.

Is it that hard? I mean all you have to do is plug a serial cable into the PC and run the software. How is that harder than plugging in a USB cable? Maybe I am missing something?

Is it that hard? I mean all you have to do is plug a serial cable into the PC and run the software. How is that harder than plugging in a USB cable? Maybe I am missing something?

The RS232 can be used for control, which a few of us (including me) are doing. So every time an update comes along you have to unplug the control cable and plug in the update cable.

I agree that a front USB port for updates would be ideal.

Deep color would be one upgrade you would expect in 1.3 version....
That would be one reason to consider a 1.3 Radiance.

Being able to pass the new audio formats like DD True HD is the issue for me. Of course you can work around it now but for the price I don't want to have to work around it.

RS 232 switcher.

The RS232 can be used for control, which a few of us (including me) are doing. So every time an update comes along you have to unplug the control cable and plug in the update cable.

I agree that a front USB port for updates would be ideal.

Well I am using RS232 to control my Radiance too, but when I need to do an update. I unplug the serial cable from the back of my serial extender and and plug it into the pc. It takes me about 20 seconds. It just doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me, but I do have easy access to the back of my equipment rack so that helps.

Mark,
Can you advise which Rs 232 switcher works?
Thanks in advance.
Ash

Monoprice has one for under $6.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/search.asp?keyword=serial+switch

look down at the bottom of the page and they have DB9 switches.

You would need one more serial cable.

Monoprice has one for under $6.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/search.asp?keyword=serial+switch

look down at the bottom of the page and they have DB9 switches.

You would need one more serial cable.

A hard A/B switch? A HARD SWITCH? Couldn't they implement, oh, I don't know, RS232 control?

:D

I was just making things easier. :D
Now from a 20 second manual switch, it is a .5 second manual switch.

One thing that I see that would be a compelling reason for the USB interface is that most laptops these days don't have a serial port. Even current desktops only give you one. :(

Sorry. I don't know much about RS232 switchers. But they are available.

Presently the 1080p24 output resolution on the Radiance is only implemented for 1080p24 input. Sometime after the Radiance software is released to production we will implement the 1080p24 output for all input resolutions.

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

Does this mean that the OSD-message "1080P24 output with non 1080P24 source" is wrong?

I hooked up my new Toshiba HD-EP35 HD-DVD player, but I had no luck in getting 1080P24 out. I selected "Up to 1080P24" in the player menu, and disabled all resolutions but 1080P24 in the Radiance custom EDID-menu. Still no luck. The Radiance reports 1080P60 when 1080P24 is selected in the player, regardless of which resolutions that is set to "Yes" in the custom EDID menu.

I also tried "Up to 576i" from the player. This time the Radiance reports 576i, but the image makes a small "jump" about every second. I suspect that something might be wrong with the player. It hung after a few seconds when playing HD-DVD when i first tried it. Had to upgrade F/W to make it play. Have played 3-4 HD-DVDs now, and it seems to be ok.

Otherwise I`m very satisfied with the Radiance. My RS-1 color and gamma tracking have improved a lot after calibrating with the Radiance.
Gunnar

Regarding the dual HDMI outputs, can CMS/greyscale/gamma controls be applied differently to each output display?

Regarding the dual HDMI outputs, can CMS/greyscale/gamma controls be applied differently to each output display?

At the same time the answer is no as HDMI 2's video output is either (i) a copy of HDMI 1's output or (ii) 1080i blank...

The RadiancePro is still planned, but we do not have a schedule for it. It is planned to have one, or possibly two, SD/HD-SDI inputs.

Personally I need 2 inputs and would prefer 3-4. I'm guessing it is at least a year away if there is not yet a schedule.

Can I get the black bars on HD channels showing 4:3 content to go away with NLS? If so, what is the button sequence on the remote to do this? I have the Beta Release 042908 installed.
Thanks.

Can I get the black bars on HD channels showing 4:3 content to go away with NLS? If so, what is the button sequence on the remote to do this? I have the Beta Release 042908 installed.
Thanks.

Not as of yet as NLS only works on SD material...this will be available down the road...

HTH

Can I get the black bars on HD channels showing 4:3 content to go away with NLS? If so, what is the button sequence on the remote to do this? I have the Beta Release 042908 installed.
Thanks.

Probably three approaches you can use, depending on how you want to distort the image (you're stuck with some sort of distortion to get a 4:3 image to fill a 16:9 frame).

If you don't mind a simple linear stretch, I'd just use the cropping settings on left and right. If you set the cropping under the 4:3 aspect ratio to make the 4:3 portion of the image fill full width, then you can switch to that aspect with a single button when you have a 4:3 image on your HD channel. Note that when you initially go to 4:3 the image will likely compress (the default settings work if you were previously looking at what should have been a 4:3 image already stretched to 16:9) and thus the cropping values you'll need to use will be fairly large. If you already use the 4:3 aspect for something else, you can cheat and pretty much use any aspect ratio you don't otherwise use, though depending on their default settings you may need to tweak top/bottom cropping as well.

If you want to maintain aspect, but don't mind losing top/bottom of frame, you can use the Radiance zoom options (up/down arrow). Z2 should fill your frame horizontally but will cut the most from the top/bottom. (Should work well in the unlikely case you have a letterboxed-within-4:3 image though).

If you prefer NLS, it only works when you are in the 4:3 aspect ratio, so you'd need to do two things:

Switch to 4:3 aspect ratio and then set the cropping so you restore the normal 4:3 aspect of the image (as above, switching to 4:3 will have compressed it horizontally).
Then use NLS normally (configuring it's settings if needed). The single NLS button will enable NLS for the 4:3 aspect ratio, and using the 4:3 button will restore the normal 4:3. The NLS state is remembered so even if you switch to 16:9 for another channel and then back to 4:3 it'll be in NLS, until you hit the 4:3 aspect button while already viewing 4:3.


-- David

Inputting 1080i60 from my HTPC (helps send tests).
Outputting 1080i60 from the Lumagen (test case).

Output is awful. I know something is mis-set. The output is looking like it is missing half the resolution. Text is unreadable. The signal is significantly degraded.

Now, when checking Info, I am told that the X Resolution is not being scaled. However, the Y resolution is being scaled from 1080 to 540.

Any thoughts? How can I change this?

Thanks

Inputting 1080i60 from my HTPC (helps send tests).
Outputting 1080i60 from the Lumagen (test case).

Output is awful. I know something is mis-set. The output is looking like it is missing half the resolution. Text is unreadable. The signal is significantly degraded.

Now, when checking Info, I am told that the X Resolution is not being scaled. However, the Y resolution is being scaled from 1080 to 540.

Any thoughts? How can I change this?I think this may be a known bug. Have you emailed Lumagen tech support? (support at lumagen dot com). You will probably get a quick answer if you do.

Peter, read the 24Psf thread elsewhere here. We discussed this bug and confirmed it with Lumagen for 1080i / 1080P24sF output. Lumagen has acknowledged and reproduced it and is working on a fix...

Understood. So you think this is the "feathering" reported elsewhere? Odd that it is on the 1080i output as well as the 1080psf output as well. I would have thought others to notice it on 1080i output as it produces noticable stair-stepping throughout the image.

Also, a quick question. Is there conditional video switching? In other words, if the Radiance detects film do X output, if it detects video do Y output. I must have missed that in the manual.

Thanks

Understood. So you think this is the "feathering" reported elsewhere? Odd that it is on the 1080i output as well as the 1080psf output as well. I would have thought others to notice it on 1080i output as it produces noticable stair-stepping throughout the image.

Also, a quick question. Is there conditional video switching? In other words, if the Radiance detects film do X output, if it detects video do Y output. I must have missed that in the manual.

Thanks


I don't recall this issue so much a while ago (many updates ago).

However, isn't 1080P24sf like 1080i48 (similar to 1080i60)? Randy would have to comment on this but it strikes that they are related as I tested 1080i and 1080P24sf output and both looked identically artifacted compared to 1080i straight through to my projector..

My understanding is that Lumagen started working on this yesterday and we should have a fix soon. 1080p24sf is segmented 1080i (so I have been told by the experts - Bill Cushman if Widescreen Review) so when they fix 1080i which was a problem from the get go but low of Lumagens priority ... it will fix 1080p24sf too.

Anyone knows if lumagen is planning to add the option to disable the built in Noise reduction as this is really important for some of my sources.

Tkx.

Anyone knows if lumagen is planning to add the option to disable the built in Noise reduction as this is really important for some of my sources.

Tkx.

Yes, there should be a complete bypass mode coming. There is a no scale option now.

I don't recall this issue so much a while ago (many updates ago).

However, isn't 1080P24sf like 1080i48 (similar to 1080i60)? Randy would have to comment on this but it strikes that they are related as I tested 1080i and 1080P24sf output and both looked identically artifacted compared to 1080i straight through to my projector..

The only similarity is that both output fields at the same rate. For 1080i48, each field can be unrelated to the next field (i.e. true interlaced). For 1080sF24, the odd and even field pairs make up one frame (i.e. true 1080p24 frames transmitted as two consecutive fields.)

The bug that has been identified does occur with both interlaced and sF output modes on the Radiance. It is also true that there is one fix we are working on that will correct both cases. However, they are different animals as far as the video carried since they are interlaced and progressive, respectively.

Anyone knows if lumagen is planning to add the option to disable the built in Noise reduction as this is really important for some of my sources.

Tkx.

With the latest releases we have the "scale-bias" option which makes it easier to turn scaling off. When our scaling is off this also bypasses our FPGA's MPEG noise reduction.

This allows you to completely disable noise reduction as you request, if you also make sure noise reduction and edge enhancement in the Gennum chip is off. In that case you are left with only the calibration features.

I'm thinking of getting a RadienceXD, but I plan to use it with my two displays: a JVC RS-1 FP and a JVC 65S998 RP. Both have oversaturated primaries, and it looks as though the RadienceXD's gamut control is excellent. However, I have only seen one post here (recently; I haven't mined the whole thread) on an RS-1, and that poster dialed everything in perfectly only to report an orange tint on faces. Jim suggested that maybe the RS-1 was doing some specialized processing that corrected flesh tones. The RadienceXD is not inexpensive, and if I end up getting rid of neon lawns, only to get orange flesh tones, I might as well not do it. I should probably post this in the RS-1 owner's thread as well. My last potential issue relates to audio. I would like to get an upcoming BD player that decodes the latest audio standards, and provides them over analog outputs so that I can use my existing Panasonic SA-XR57 receiver. My BD player (and satellite box) would send video to the RadienceXD over HDMI. Would I have an issue with lip synch, and if so, is it likely that the BD player would have a delay adjustment to zero this out? Thanks,

Kevin

Lip Sync is scheduled to be worked on after the software switches to production an no longer beta. So you might have to wait a bit for that. Also a HDMI 1.3 version is coming out soon too.

I have a RS-1X dialed in and it looks beautiful using the Radiance XD.

I'm thinking of getting a RadienceXD, but I plan to use it with my two displays: a JVC RS-1 FP and a JVC 65S998 RP. Both have oversaturated primaries, and it looks as though the RadienceXD's gamut control is excellent. However, I have only seen one post here (recently; I haven't mined the whole thread) on an RS-1, and that poster dialed everything in perfectly only to report an orange tint on faces. Jim suggested that maybe the RS-1 was doing some specialized processing that corrected flesh tones. The RadienceXD is not inexpensive, and if I end up getting rid of neon lawns, only to get orange flesh tones, I might as well not do it. I should probably post this in the RS-1 owner's thread as well. My last potential issue relates to audio. I would like to get an upcoming BD player that decodes the latest audio standards, and provides them over analog outputs so that I can use my existing Panasonic SA-XR57 receiver. My BD player (and satellite box) would send video to the RadienceXD over HDMI. Would I have an issue with lip synch, and if so, is it likely that the BD player would have a delay adjustment to zero this out? Thanks,

Kevin

The Radiance does not have any analog audio inputs/outputs so any audio delay will have to be performed in the reciever or blu ray player
Radiance will only perform audio delay on HDMI/coax/spdif

The Radiance does not have any analog audio inputs/outputs so any audio delay will have to be performed in the reciever or blu ray player
Radiance will only perform audio delay on HDMI/coax/spdifSlight correction - the Radiance does not have any multi-channel inputs or any analogue output. It amounts to the same thing in this case - the multi-channel delay must be handled in the player or audio processor.

Orange skin tones....

RS-1 without Radiance doing gamut correction....

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=92695&d=1192854313

RS-1 with Radiance doing gamut correction....

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=92694&d=1192854313

That picture is from a much earlier version of software in the Radiance before the secondary corrections, 3D LUT and linear gamma.When I get a chance I'll post some new shots with the current calibration.

Shawn

Two more:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=92697&d=1192854355
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=92696&d=1192854355

Another update to the list of features; this time all planned 'for release' features are in so official release should be imminent.

Note that some features have been completely reprioritized along the way. For example, the single point gamma correction (called 'gamma factor' in the menu) was meant to be added way after release; it is now part of the release feature line-up. So if you haven't looked at that list lately, take a gander.

Shawn:

I think that you proved the point...well done...

Joel

I'm thinking of getting a RadienceXD, but I plan to use it with my two displays: a JVC RS-1 FP and a JVC 65S998 RP. Both have oversaturated primaries, and it looks as though the RadienceXD's gamut control is excellent. However, I have only seen one post here (recently; I haven't mined the whole thread) on an RS-1, and that poster dialed everything in perfectly only to report an orange tint on faces. Jim suggested that maybe the RS-1 was doing some specialized processing that corrected flesh tones. The RadienceXD is not inexpensive, and if I end up getting rid of neon lawns, only to get orange flesh tones, I might as well not do it. I should probably post this in the RS-1 owner's thread as well. My last potential issue relates to audio. I would like to get an upcoming BD player that decodes the latest audio standards, and provides them over analog outputs so that I can use my existing Panasonic SA-XR57 receiver. My BD player (and satellite box) would send video to the RadienceXD over HDMI. Would I have an issue with lip synch, and if so, is it likely that the BD player would have a delay adjustment to zero this out? Thanks,

Kevin

Many/Most manufacturers add Red-push to compensate for other bad things they do, such as way too high color temp, and out of spec primaries. Red push helps them correct flesh tones in light of these intentionally introduced errors. They need to correct flesh tones since people are very sensitive to flesh tone errors. So, they use two wrongs to make a right for flesh tones.

After you use the Radiance gamut control to correct the out of spec primaries and/or gray-scale, the red-push is still there in the display's processing. This causes flesh tones to look wrong if the red-push is significant.

If this is noticable, you would need some iteration using the Radiance color/hue/offset controls, and the gamut controls, to undo the red-push. You can do this with our Color-Red and Hue-Red controls, and perhaps you might also need the other color/hue/offset controls. This becomes an iteration process as Color/Hue/Offsets affect your primary and secondary points.

I have posted a more detailed process for this on the Radiance Beta forum.

====

On the audio switching question: The RadianceXD has stereo analog audio inputs, but not the multichannel you are asking for.

Any word on HDMI 1.3?

Any word on HDMI 1.3?

Actually, there is. I'll update that bit of info in the FAQ, thanks fort the reminder! In the meantime, you can find it in the main XD thread, a couple or three pages back.

Actually, there is. I'll update that bit of info in the FAQ, thanks fort the reminder! In the meantime, you can find it in the main XD thread, a couple or three pages back.

Thanks Dave. Found it.
1K for 1.3 sounds a little steep to me.

No, HDMI 1.3 capability is still a few months away and -- just so you know -- at a higher price point in order of USD 1,000 more.

HTH

$1000 or more??????



!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!

Can anyone provide any advice here.

Coming out of the PS3 into the Radiance into a Qualia. Better to output RGB or Component from the PS3 (both are options)? Already have everything set for video-level (vs. PC-level).

Why choose one over the other?

Thanks

Thanks Dave. Found it.
1K for 1.3 sounds a little steep to me.

Yup :). But as I said in the main thread, now that the PS3 decodes the advanced codecs, I personally don't need it. Deep color, shmeep color.

I use Yc etc. with the "extra" white or whatever it's called. Looks good and no ? about black levels being ok.

I assume then that the Radiance is doing the conversion on the input as I am outputting RGB over the HDMI. Correct?

Thanks

Can anyone provide any advice here.

Coming out of the PS3 into the Radiance into a Qualia. Better to output RGB or Component from the PS3 (both are options)? Already have everything set for video-level (vs. PC-level).

Why choose one over the other?

Thanks

Since DVD/BD uses YCbCr native, I'd use that so the ps3 doesn't convert colorspace. The question would be whether to keep it 444 or use 422 YCbCr in the Radiance. If the Qualia accepts 422 at more than 8 bits, there could be a theoretical advantage to 422.

If the Qualia only has DVI (can't remember if it has HDMI) then output YCbCr to the Radiance and let it do the conversion to RGB.

Yup :). But as I said in the main thread, now that the PS3 decodes the advanced codecs, I personally don't need it. Deep color, shmeep color.

The Radiance is already an expensive piece of gear, but a 30% increase for HDMI 1.3 (which I need) seems a little excessive for something that should of already been in there... which is very surprising since Lumagen thought of everything else.
Hopefully whoever posted that price is off by a bit...

The Radiance is already an expensive piece of gear, but a 30% increase for HDMI 1.3 (which I need) seems a little excessive for something that should of already been in there... which is very surprising since Lumagen thought of everything else.
Hopefully whoever posted that price is off by a bit...

The price came from the top, so it is accurate.

The price came from the top, so it is accurate.

Thanks Cal.

Well it is a bit of a cottage product so I guess I can see why the upgrade isn't too cheap.

I am considering purchasing the Radience and was wondering if you input 480i over component what will the unit upscale to over HDMI on the output?
Thanks in advance

I am considering purchasing the Radience and was wondering if you input 480i over component what will the unit upscale to over HDMI on the output?
Whatever you want! That's totally up to you...

The Radiance is already an expensive piece of gear, but a 30% increase for HDMI 1.3 (which I need) seems a little excessive for something that should of already been in there... which is very surprising since Lumagen thought of everything else.
Hopefully whoever posted that price is off by a bit...

Anybody feel free to jump in if I got this wrong, but here's my take; we know the XD's hardware was final a looong time ago. Well over a year I believe. I don't think 1.3 mattered that much at the time, and one could argue it doesn't matter that much even today. However. Market realities and demands, whether grounded in reality or not, are forcing Lumagen's hand a bit on this one. And unfortunately, it seems that the current (1.1) hdmi chips can't just be replaced; the motherboard has to be upgraded as well, hence the steep price.

So it will output 1080p/24?
Also is it better to buy now (pre-production) and not get HDMI 1.3 or wait until it is available.

So it will output 1080p/24?
Also is it better to buy now (pre-production) and not get HDMI 1.3 or wait until it is available.Jumping forums...

Hi Joe, it won't do 1080p24 from 480i60 yet, but it will. Not sure when though. The HDMI 1.3 unit will be more expensive than the existing 1.1 unit and it's not available yet; it's your choice.

Jumping forums...

Hi Joe, it won't do 1080p24 from 480i60 yet, but it will. Not sure when though. The HDMI 1.3 unit will be more expensive than the existing 1.1 unit and it's not available yet; it's your choice.

What currently happens if you input film at 1080i/60 and the Lumagen is set to output at 1080p/23.98 ?

D

What currently happens if you input film at 1080i/60 and the Lumagen is set to output at 1080p/23.98 ?Dropped frames and judder I assume.

What currently happens if you input film at 1080i/60 and the Lumagen is set to output at 1080p/23.98 ?

D

Supposedly it tears up the picture. Haven't tried it myself though.

Presently the 1080p24 output on the Radiance is only implemented for 1080p24 input. You might get judder and frame tear if you use other input rates.

After we release the Radiance software to production it's a high priority to implement the 1080p24 output for all input rates.

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

Anybody feel free to jump in if I got this wrong, but here's my take; we know the XD's hardware was final a looong time ago. Well over a year I believe. I don't think 1.3 mattered that much at the time, and one could argue it doesn't matter that much even today. However. Market realities and demands, whether grounded in reality or not, are forcing Lumagen's hand a bit on this one. And unfortunately, it seems that the current (1.1) hdmi chips can't just be replaced; the motherboard has to be upgraded as well, hence the steep price.

Youre probably right... I didnt buy into the 1.3 thing until recently myself.
Its hard for me to justify the XD since I only need it for CMS and flexible scope features. I also need 1.3.
I read about a "trimmed down" version of the Radiance... that may be my ticket!

Youre probably right... I didnt buy into the 1.3 thing until recently myself.
Its hard for me to justify the XD since I only need it for CMS and flexible scope features. I also need 1.3.
I read about a "trimmed down" version of the Radiance... that may be my ticket!

Keep in mind that's way, way off. Actually, the XD 1.3 will come out before that, then a beefed up version of the XD (the XD Pro). Then (maybe) a XD 'light'. I'd say we're probably two years away from a XD light.

If you absolutely do need 1.3 (why?), then wait for the updated version of the XD. But saying it's hard to justify because you need it 'only' for CMS .... that's a weird statement. The XD is the only piece of equipment on the market that offers a CMS that actually works. So it's not like you have somewhere else to go :).

Been out of the loop for a while, so sorry about that (bit too much on my plate of late)...

Just got a Panny 65PY700 FHD display in for testing, great display for testing.

I first started with configuring the unit for 1080P. The older Lumagen remote got me 1080P in about 2 seconds (much easier than pressing combinations of buttons) and I got a menu.

First started by moving the menu system into service mode (advanced mode) and started playing with timing and output configurations.

Menu system is much more advanced and comfortable than the older Lumagens and yet retains pretty much the same functionality. It takes a little bit of getting used to, but it is better organized and more intuitive to a calibrator or service person than the DVDO menu system which often leaves me confused and struggling to remember which top menu belongs to a particular option that I'm trying to locate... It is not as flashy as the DVDO menu system, but it definitely does the job.

Input switching is much faster than the older Lumagens, which is a welcomed change.

Output settings is getting close to feature ready, but I still found it quite difficult to custom fit resolutions. Trying to get 1024x768 running at 50Hz is no easy task. You first have to choose another 50Hz output resolution and then change timing to fit that resolution. It is clear that most users are now moving towards the ubiquitous 1080P output resolution. Still, I miss the flexibility of selecting timing and then an output frequency (I really don't want to change or edit the pixel clock at all...).

Once I got two output configurations ready (config0 = 1080P60, config1= 1080P50), I started playing with assiging different profiles to different input types. First, I noticed that the memory pool did not have a specific assignment for 1080P50 (which I use a lot recently). Assigning output profiles is a bit confusing because it shows you the current output profile instead of the one assigned (seems like a bug, not really sure), but when you actually change to a particular signal type, it does actually assign the right one in.

At this point, I was able to start checking out the PQ. I started with PAL SDTV and my typical round of testing with my torture DVD (which I made from various poor quality cuts of PAL 2:2 and mixed-mode programming). The unit really did well on these tests without even a single drop to combing (outdoing both Silicon optix's HQV and ABT's DL algorithms)! These tests consist of several types of content overlayed (this is how they were originally aired) with graphics, subtitles, static images each having its own cadence and many of which originating from either processed film or video content. This is a very hard test to pass with flying colors.

To make things even more interesting, I added some of the unit's processing to the mix. Lumagen already has anti-mosquito built into the scaling algorithm and it does a great job for typical content. For very bit starved content I played around with the additional processing that the Gennum chip offers and was quite impressed. Both the mosquito and BAR algorithms do a great job. On the 65 inch display, from about 3 feet of distance, I could make all the compression artifacts on the DVE test disk go away (the mountain scene really bugs my eyes with the mosquito noise around the edges). I really liked that I could assign this to a particular memory. This is much easier than the original HDP's idea of using A-B-C-D memories to switch between PAL/NTSC (and so forth) - it gives me the ability to assign A to high quality sources and B to sources that need "help".

Bluray content (tried using the panasonic DMP-BD30) and streamer content (TVIX 6500A and Pixel Magic MB200) did great and I could add processing to fix up some bitstarved HD content (e.g., Cars 1080i source that really macroblocks alot).

There are still some missing features like Y/C delay and CUE (albeit, my DVD content viewing has dropped to zero in the last couple of years), and of course genlocking.

I also had a small issue with the analog audio not working on the specific display I was using (96Khz sampling issue, should not be a problem with most AVRs).

I really like the two HD output options. I wish zones and different resolutions could be implemented there (not sure if it's critical for me, but it's a darned cool feature). For now, it really helps resolving my big headache of routing everything twice and with HDMI audio becoming a standard, I can finally decide how and where I route my audio from (i.e., universal scaler input on my AVR and route my video separately).

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to what these guys have up their sleeves next. I sent Lumagen my recommendations for more test patterns (you can never have enough of those, can you...).

Ofer - many thanks for your comments, particularly with regard to PAL deinterlacing. A few of us in the UK with SkyHD (satellite) have been seeing a lot of "combing" and stuttering on PAL channels and your observations do tend to confirm what we have started suspecting: that the Radiance is fine and there is a problem with the SkyHD box itself, or SD channel bit-rates, or our individual feed quality.

Ofer, how's the picture on the big Panny post Radiance?

I'm going back and forth btwn the new Pioneer and the bigger real estate Panny ... either way will be using the Radiance upstream.

VirusKiller,

Very strange. I have a box that's kind of similar to the SkyHD, I haven't had enough time to check using that particular STB, I will give it a try in the next couple of days and report.

Are you seeing it on both SD and HD?

I did notice that some STBs are outputing 1080i which was originally 576i. That means they *should* deinterlace, upscale and then reinterlace. However, that's not always the case and something like that can never really be processed properly, it will always comb when the internal STB processor fails during the deinterlacing process.

Brucemck2,

It's excellent without the Radiance and "Excellenter" (to borrow from the worlds most smartest model) with the Radiance... The display gives a great picture in HD, and a good picture for SD. With the Radiance, the PQ is excellent all round.

Is it on all sorts of content?

I just spent about 20 minutes playing around with that STB. didn't see any problems on either type of setting (when the STB reinterlaces and when it passes the resolution through ).

even Tryg can do it.

I hope so. But I'd really like to see a production unit. It sound like this is imminent but the clarity on what it is and does is a bit fuzzy. Hopefully on release this will be explained.

I hope so. But I'd really like to see a production unit. It sound like this is imminent but the clarity on what it is and does is a bit fuzzy. Hopefully on release this will be explained.

What are you talking about? Mark was referring to the firmware update process (which is indeed pretty simple).

Sorry for the confusion. I wasn't talking about the clarity of updating the firmware.

I was referring to clarity of release and what the final product does. Last official news release was December 06?

Sorry for the confusion. I wasn't talking about the clarity of updating the firmware.

I was referring to clarity of release and what the final product does. Last official news release was December 06?

I'm not Lumagen :)

All I know is that all features planned for release are in. The software is still being tweaked (precision improvements in the pipeline), but yes release should be imminent.

Final release version is planned for the end of the month, according to my last conversation with Lumagen. I can tell you from the last version it has been pretty damned solid.

Just got my Radiance and will be connecting it on the weekend. In the meantime I've been reading the manual. In the calibration config section, it says for me to access grayscale and gamma calibration features, I need to contact Lumagen for service codes.

Can someone give me these codes please?

Just got my Radiance and will be connecting it on the weekend. In the meantime I've been reading the manual. In the calibration config section, it says for me to access grayscale and gamma calibration features, I need to contact Lumagen for service codes.

Can someone give me these codes please?

There's no codes. You just need to put the XD in service mode.

Just got my Radiance and will be connecting it on the weekend. In the meantime I've been reading the manual. In the calibration config section, it says for me to access grayscale and gamma calibration features, I need to contact Lumagen for service codes.

Can someone give me these codes please?

You can enter service mode directly (MENU 0910), or you can use the MENU (MENU -> Other -> Menu Control -> Menu Mode).

BTW: You can now save the "service mode" state such that it persists over a power-cycle. To do this , use the Menu Mode to change to "Service mode (permanent)" and then do a Save.

We plan to release the Production software for the RadianceXD next week. This software does not have all the features we originally planned for the first "production" release, but we feel it will still have the industry leading feature set at Production Software Release. We will continue to release enhancements over time and these are planned to include all the features we postponed. We like to think of our Video Processors a "Living Products" to differentiate them from the others out there. We continue to release enhancements to the feature set and to image quality for a long time after the product is released. These are available for free from our website.

On HDMI 1.3: Based on feedback from dealers, and customers, we will release the HDMI 1.3 version of Radiance as the RadianceXE (rather than RadianceXD with HDMI 1.3). So the RadianceXD will remain HDMI 1.1.

The RadianceXE will be priced at $4995 when we have it. The upgrade from RadianceXD to RadianceXE is a board swap and is priced at $1000 in the US for Customers who own the RadianceXD currently and those who purchase before the end of June 2008. After that we plan to increase the price, but have not decided by how much.

In addition, beginning July 1, the price for the RadianceXD will become $4495. Sorry for the increase but given our marketing plans/costs and the size of the effort for the market size, we have come to the conclusion this is necessary.

The RadianceXE Beta is likely to start in August. Current RadianceXD owners can trade up into the Beta program for the $1000 upgrade cost, and of course anyone can purchase a new RadianceXE Beta unit for $4995 (in the US. Prices in other countries will vary).

We are working on the RadianceXS, which will be lower cost than the original RadianceXD pricing. The RadianceXS will be HDMI 1.3 and have fewer inputs/outputs than the RadianceXE, but have the same image quality.

The following is a duplicate of a post I just made in the "Radiance FAQ" thread, but I thought I should post it here as well:

We plan to release the Production software for the RadianceXD next week. This software does not have all the features we originally planned for the first "production" release, but we feel it will still have the industry leading feature set at Production Software Release. We will continue to release enhancements over time and these are planned to include all the features we postponed. We like to think of our Video Processors a "Living Products" to differentiate them from the others out there. We continue to release enhancements to the feature set and to image quality for a long time after the product is released. These are available for free from our website.

On HDMI 1.3: Based on feedback from dealers, and customers, we will release the HDMI 1.3 version of Radiance as the RadianceXE (rather than RadianceXD with HDMI 1.3). So the RadianceXD will remain HDMI 1.1.

The RadianceXE will be priced at $4995 when we have it. The upgrade from RadianceXD to RadianceXE is a board swap and is priced at $1000 in the US for Customers who own the RadianceXD currently and those who purchase before the end of June 2008. After that we plan to increase the price, but have not decided by how much.

In addition, beginning July 1, the price for the RadianceXD will become $4495. Sorry for the increase but given our marketing plans/costs and the size of the effort for the market size, we have come to the conclusion this is necessary.

The RadianceXE Beta is likely to start in August. Current RadianceXD owners can trade up into the Beta program for the $1000 upgrade cost, and of course anyone can purchase a new RadianceXE Beta unit for $4995 (in the US. Prices in other countries will vary).

We are working on the RadianceXS, which will be lower cost than the original RadianceXD pricing. The RadianceXS will be HDMI 1.3 and have fewer inputs/outputs than the RadianceXE, but have the same image quality.

Been out of the loop for a while, so sorry about that (bit too much on my plate of late)...

Just got a Panny 65PY700 FHD display in for testing, great display for testing.

I first started with configuring the unit for 1080P. The older Lumagen remote got me 1080P in about 2 seconds (much easier than pressing combinations of buttons) and I got a menu.

(...)

Ofer, I'd like your permission to use the above in the FAQ. I'm not sure why you'd be opposed to it, but I thought I'd ask first. :)

There have been several requests for a list of what exactly is in the "Radiance First Production Software Release". Here is the list I have been posting on the Beta forum. I believe it is complete, but if anyone sees an omission, error, or just has a questions, please chime in.

USER VISIBLE FEATURES THAT HAVE BEEN IMPLEMENTED:

Input selection for video
Input aspect ratio selection (except NLS)
Input memories (A, B, C, D)
Input Zoom
Input sub-resolution memory auto-selection
Input sizing (a.k.a. input cropping)
Input level (i.e. Video or PC)
Black-level, Contrast
Input color-space selection (i.e. ITU-Bt.601 or ITU-Bt.709)
Color/Hue, plus Color/Hue offsets
Output resolution (only the defaults for now)
Output vertical rate (50 or 59.94 only)
Output Aspect ratio
Output level (i.e. video or PC)
Input sub-memories can refer to different output configurations
Auto-select NTSC at 60 and PAL at 50 using different output configurations
HDMI video EDID configuration
HDMI audio EDID configuration
Context sensitive help
Set pillar-box, side-bar, and letter-box top-bar, level
Save the setup to flash memory
Audio switching for HDMI audio in to HDMI audio out
Ability to configure output 2 as audio only
Audio switching for COAX/TOS in, and stereo in, to SPDIF out or HDMI out.
HDMI input audio in formats compatible with SPDIF can be output on COAX SPDIF out.
Menu commands to associate an audio input with the selected video input.
Trigger output control
Front-panel LED action control
Grayscale/Gamma (11 point parametric. Note: 21 point comes later)
Test Patterns (more to come later)
Adjust video while viewing test patterns
Output support for 8-bit 4:4:4 and 12-bit 4:2:2 (YCbCr).
Output dither for 4:2:2 format to 8-bit or 10-bit resolution
RGBcvS, RGBHV, RGBS, RGsB Input formats
Image enhancement controls.
Primary and secondary "3D-palette" based gamut control
Added white corner of color cube to Gamut control
3D Palette converted to "linear gamma"
24p/24sF/48p output support for 24p input
More test patterns added
Pixel accurate output-timing programmability
List-based selection of output resolutions
Copy input memory
Copy output configuration
Label input memory
Undo save command
Single adjustment control for gamma (in addition to 11-pount gamma)
Non-linear-Stretch (NLS) for 4:3 sources on a 16:9 screen
Scale "Bias" turns off scaling in x, or y, or both if in/out res match.
Output "blanking" left/right/top/bottom. Called masking in Menu.
Non-linear-Stretch (NLS) for 16:9 sources on a 2.35 screen
Configure Zoom step-size

LESS OBVIOUS FEATURES THAT HAVE BEEN IMPLEMENTED:

Video input pipeline with source switching and format conversion
No-ring scaling engine and output data path
Improved pipeline precision verses the Vision series (with more to come)
Improved down-scaling verses the Vision series (with more to come)
All HDMI inputs remain active (including HDCP) when not selected for fast switching
EDID supports 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 HDMI video input modes
Vision series style RS232 commands

FEATURES TO BE IMPLEMENTED AFTER FIRST PRODUCTION RELEASE:

Upload/download configuration to/from PC
Y/C delay (Luma to Chroma delay error correction)
CUE filter (To fix Chroma Up-sample Error)
Shrink
Virual input (1 physical input selected as any of several input numbers)
PiP
Input sub-memory format select (resolution, rate, and interlace)
Output sync polarity
Scale 240p as progressive input
Lower latency “game mode” (Approx 4 mS)
Near zero latency “pass-through” mode.
Additional improvements in pipeline precision
Additional improvements in downscaling
24p, 24sF, 48p output support for interlaced input
Genlock
PoP
Grayscale/Gamma (21 point parametric)
Additional context sensitive help
Ability to configure output 2 as digital pass-through
Auto input aspect selection for HDMI inputs
Fast image shift up/down for 2.35 material
Programmable audio delay
Additional RS232 command/status

Jim, can you give us anymore info on the XS and XE???

Regarding the XE: Besides HDMI 1.3, what other features (if any) will be added? According to Walkamo, Pioneers next BD player will be able to:
The HDMI High Speed Transmission feature scales a BD discs 8-bit color signal to 12-bits per channel resulting in a 36-bit color signal. We actually interpolate what colors were lost in the creation of the BD disc by comparing 3 video frames (compare frame 1 to frame 2 and frame 3 to frame 2).
I dont know what if any improvements this might add. Maybe its nothing or maybe its the next wave of "upconverting" in the BD age...
Will the XE have some kind of feature like this?

Regarding the XS: Besides fewer inputs, will any other features be cut out? If the XS is the same as the XE minus a few inputs, that would be the one for me. But I wouldn't want to sacrifice CMS, CIH options or any of the other features the XE/XD has.


Sorry for all the questions, but I just want to make the best informed decision I can. I have my heart set on a Radiance... I just don't know which one.:D

Jim: I don't see "shrink" mentioned as a future addition. I found that useful on the HDP and still need it since my Panny plasma set at 1 to 1 is a couple of pixels off. Thanks

I might have missed, a little while back I saw RGBHV coming in about 3 weeks, but don't see it in the final list, what's the status? Excuse the noob question, but I assume I'd need RGBHV for VGA inputs (yes I know most decent PC graphcis cards now output digital, but I'm looking at the RadianceXD + new projector to replace my two-box Dwin TV3 and I have an existing MCE PC with VGA out and would like to make it as simple as possible).

I might have missed, a little while back I saw RGBHV coming in about 3 weeks, but don't see it in the final list, what's the status? Excuse the noob question, but I assume I'd need RGBHV for VGA inputs (yes I know most decent PC graphcis cards now output digital, but I'm looking at the RadianceXD + new projector to replace my two-box Dwin TV3 and I have an existing MCE PC with VGA out and would like to make it as simple as possible).

It's in the list, look again :)

How about Radiance XES for $4k?

Thanks, 'Input 7 to 10 type select' is exactly what I'd have called it :-)

That feature list is just too darn long, can you pare it down to make it easier to scan???? :-)

Regarding the XS: Besides fewer inputs, will any other features be cut out? If the XS is the same as the XE minus a few inputs, that would be the one for me. But I wouldn't want to sacrifice CMS, CIH options or any of the other features the XE/XD has.


I'd like to know the answer to that one aswell.

Also, with HDMI 1.3 support, will this mean the radiance will be able to pass bitstream HD audio codecs?

How about Radiance XES for $4k?

XES??? I was sure you would of wanted the Radiance HP!

How about Radiance XES for $4k?

Wha? :confused:

.....
We are working on the RadianceXS, which will be lower cost than the original RadianceXD pricing. The RadianceXS will be HDMI 1.3 and have fewer inputs/outputs than the RadianceXE, but have the same image quality.I hope you will retain the dual HDMI outputs though Jim. Just a couple of analog Video inputs would suffice for most of us I think. One component/RGBHV/RGBscv, one Video and one S-Video would do it for me. Probably retain the 6 HDMI input ports of the XD, but 4 would do. Throw in one Coax and one Opto for Audio digital outputs and ditto for inputs. Price it to match the DVDO range and we should have a clear winner :).

As an aside, I can't really see the need/market now for analog RGBHV output or SD/HD SDI input(s). Having recently compared my Oppo 980HD player to my earlier SDI modified 971H, I can see but a teeny weeny difference on a resolution test pattern - no discernable difference on program material. By the time the XS would be hitting production, my guess would be that most people would have upgraded their displays to 1080p HDMI and players to HDMI 480i/567i/1080i/p.

Dave,

I don't think it's a FAQ related post (or I would have posted it there).

I'd prefer to wait for a production release to do a full blown review, which I definitely plan on doing.

Very strange. I have a box that's kind of similar to the SkyHD, I haven't had enough time to check using that particular STB, I will give it a try in the next couple of days and report.

Are you seeing it on both SD and HD?

I did notice that some STBs are outputing 1080i which was originally 576i. That means they *should* deinterlace, upscale and then reinterlace. However, that's not always the case and something like that can never really be processed properly, it will always comb when the internal STB processor fails during the deinterlacing process.
Ofer,

1) I imagine that these boxes are quite different internally.
2) The issues is only seen on SD.
3) SD is output as 576i (with the Radiance forcing 576i via EDID).
4) The SkyHD box *can* output SD as 1080i, in which case there is (lousy) internal deinterlacing, scaling, and interlacing.
5) A Radiance bug has been reported on the Beta forum which *may* be relevant, though to be fair to Lumagen, it would be a case of the SkyHD box not outputting a correct HDMI info frame. It's too early to speculate though and the bug could be unrelated.

Dave,

I don't think it's a FAQ related post (or I would have posted it there).

I'd prefer to wait for a production release to do a full blown review, which I definitely plan on doing.

It is too! :) User impressions definitely help. Plus the software is very close to final - but ok, I'll wait for your review and link it then.

Jim, can you give us anymore info on the XS and XE???

Regarding the XE: Besides HDMI 1.3, what other features (if any) will be added? According to Walkamo, Pioneers next BD player will be able to:

I dont know what if any improvements this might add. Maybe its nothing or maybe its the next wave of "upconverting" in the BD age...
Will the XE have some kind of feature like this?

Regarding the XS: Besides fewer inputs, will any other features be cut out? If the XS is the same as the XE minus a few inputs, that would be the one for me. But I wouldn't want to sacrifice CMS, CIH options or any of the other features the XE/XD has.

XE Is same I/O as RadianceXD but supports the new HDMI 1.3 audio and video formats. The Silicon Image chips support 4:4:4 YCbCr at 12-bits, but this is moot since sources are 8-bit 4:2:0 for consumer sources. HDMI 1.1 already has 12-bit 4:2:2 which is more than enough for any consumer source.

The main advantage is for the new uncompressed formats for audio. HDMI 1.1 can support these if the sources decodes them to LPCM. Looks like some players will support them only in bit-stream. So HDMI 1.3 would be needed.

For a number of reasons the player should decode these: 1) Decoded you don't need HDMI 1.3. 2) Decoded the PrePro has more compute cycles for audio enhancements. 3) Decoded the source can mix in audio commentary and other features. This is not possible if the source does not decode these formats.

----

What you describe is temporal noise reduction in the BD player. The RadianceXD HDMI 1.1 already has this and can output the resulting video at 12-bit 4:2:2 which is beyond what is needed for consumer sources. The RadianceXE will also have temporal noise reduction.

----

Currently the only feature we are removing in the RadianceXS verses the RadianceXE is audio delay (except of course reduced Inputs and Outputs). This is a cost savings move so we can go from two FPGA's to one. So far most customers are saying they do not need audio delay. If you did need audio delay using the RadianceXS you would use the audio delay in your amp. At this time we do not plan on dropping any other features.

I might have missed, a little while back I saw RGBHV coming in about 3 weeks, but don't see it in the final list, what's the status? Excuse the noob question, but I assume I'd need RGBHV for VGA inputs (yes I know most decent PC graphcis cards now output digital, but I'm looking at the RadianceXD + new projector to replace my two-box Dwin TV3 and I have an existing MCE PC with VGA out and would like to make it as simple as possible).

RGBHV is in the software now. We support standard video resolutions and a few PC resolutions (e.g. 1024x768). We will be adding more PC resolutions over time.

Jim: I don't see "shrink" mentioned as a future addition. I found that useful on the HDP and still need it since my Panny plasma set at 1 to 1 is a couple of pixels off. Thanks

Good catch. Shrink is on the todo list. I will add it to the list for reference.

Thanks Jim!

I have some query's i need clearing up if someone can clarify...

What exactly does one get with the HDMI 1.3a upgrade board to the radiance over the standard?

Would i be correct that the only real difference is the ability to send bitstream multichannel HD audio instead of being limited to LPCM, so in effect being able to display the actual HD audio format instead of just displaying Multi-ch on the amp all the time?

The main thing i'm interested is it worth it eg.will there be any audio difference sending Bitstream over LPCM other than having the amp show the correct format + decoding the signal and does the radiance process LPCM reducing the quality in anyway or pass this through to the amp un-processed?

In its current form does the Radiance also allow LPCM up to 7.1 channels or is this reduced at all.

TIA.

I have some query's i need clearing up if someone can clarify...

What exactly does one get with the HDMI 1.3a upgrade board to the radiance over the standard?

Would i be correct that the only real difference is the ability to send bitstream multichannel HD audio instead of being limited to LPCM, so in effect being able to display the actual HD audio format instead of just displaying Multi-ch on the amp all the time?

The main thing i'm interested is it worth it eg.will there be any audio difference sending Bitstream over LPCM other than having the amp show the correct format + decoding the signal and does the radiance process LPCM reducing the quality in anyway or pass this through to the amp un-processed?

In its current form does the Radiance also allow LPCM up to 7.1 channels or is this reduced at all.

TIA.

You are correct, the only real difference is the ability to bitstream vs. sending by LPCM. I am sure we will get differing opinions but in theory there is no difference between lossless LPCM and the bitsteam version. In LPCM the BD player does the decoding. With bitsteam the receiver/prepro does it. Some will claim that an expensive receiver will do a better job. Others will disagree. I have the XD with no current plans to upgrade to 1.3. If someone can demonstrate and document a significant improvement I will consider the extra $1K for the upgrade plus ~$1.5k for a new receiver. The current Radiance passes thru intact whatever audio it receives.

Thanks dsinger,

exactly what i think, i'm also not going to fork out that much just so that the amp shows trueHD etc.. instead of MC

I know about about the source or amp decoding discussion, i think there's no difference.

Just hooked up my new unit to an HD D Tivo and a 480i DVD player, both via hdmi to a Marantz S4 720p projector. Amazing unit.

A quick question to get started on the enhancement settings ...

What would you recommend for initial Sharpness and Noise settings for

480i DVD?
1080i and 720p HD via OTA or D?
480i over D?

I'm sure this is somewhere in the earlier posts, but I've read through quite a few and didn't see recs

IMO it's more a matter of taste than anything else. I like sharp, crisp PQ rather than film like so I set 1080i/720p to ~ +3 for all 6 sharpness settings and 0 for all noise settings. 480i again IMO is DVD by DVD and SD TV is trying to find some happy medium you can live with since there is so much variance between channels and even the programs on the same channel. In short, experiment.

if one who has a radiance now upgrades for $1000.00 to the model with hdmi 1.3, what does one( read, I) actually gain for the extra 1000 bucks? with pure apass-through default on my onkyo 885 pre/pro and video going to the radiance last it does not seem to matter what hdmi, so what will be bought for the $1,000.00 "upgrade" price? is there something else technical to make this an upgrade?

i own a lumagen radiance
as i read the post, and post of various comments about the "upgrade", i don't see even one dollars worth of value. i wonder what the heck will be bought as an upgrade other than more cost?
lumagen has not delivered in what is announced and surely this "upgrade" is still an evolving story

I just updated the Radiance to the latest beta firmware. This is my first time doing this since buying the XD. The upgrade file updated the firmware for about 10 minutes, then said the process was completed. The Radiance automatically powered off.

Now whenever I turn it on, the green light turns on but I only get a black picture. Both my display and my VP50Pro report that it is receiving a 1080p60 signal, but only a black picture. The radiance is unresponsive to any remote control commands. Can't even put it in standby. I need to remove power to turn everything off. I also tried leaving is disconnected over night, still same problem.

Please help.

I would try to reload the older firmware to start. You should be able to do this by starting to send the download as soon as you connect the power supply to the scaler

Try a reset, too.

Hit: MENU 0 9 9 9.

Currently the only feature we are removing in the RadianceXS verses the RadianceXE is audio delay (except of course reduced Inputs and Outputs). This is a cost savings move so we can go from two FPGA's to one. So far most customers are saying they do not need audio delay. If you did need audio delay using the RadianceXS you would use the audio delay in your amp. At this time we do not plan on dropping any other features.

One of the advantages of HDMI 1.3 was supposed to be automatic lip sync correction. I never see this mentioned in any products that feature 1.3. Is that possible with the Radiance 1.3 version?

One of the advantages of HDMI 1.3 was supposed to be automatic lip sync correction. I never see this mentioned in any products that feature 1.3. Is that possible with the Radiance 1.3 version?

We have not implemented it yet, but this should be possible. However, I doubt there will be many, if any, souce devices (e.g. DVD, Bluray players) supporting this for some time.

A nice feature my Denon BD player has is video delay ( shown as Audio '+' instead of '-' ). This is helpful for 1080P24 video and a lag in audio when post processing audio in a surround processor whem an audio delay would only make it worse..

That is a nice feature.

We have not implemented it yet, but this should be possible. However, I doubt there will be many, if any, souce devices (e.g. DVD, Bluray players) supporting this for some time.
The new Pioneer Blu-Ray players and receivers will somehow synchronize their clocks so that jitter is eliminated. I'm not sure how they realized that. But maybe they're already making use of the "HDMI 1.3 lipsync" functionality for this purpose?

I'm sure that the lack of 1.3 could be used against them in reviews etc. It is one of those bullet points that probably has frustrated the heck out of Jim and crew.

"I hope you will retain the dual HDMI outputs though Jim."

I don't think it will if Lumagen is sticking to their earlier naming.

Radiance XD(ual output)
Radiance XS(ingle output)

Shawn

"I hope you will retain the dual HDMI outputs though Jim."

I don't think it will if Lumagen is sticking to their earlier naming.

Radiance XD(ual output)
Radiance XS(ingle output)

ShawnHmm... fair observation. Never occurred to me; this nomenclature. Not a deal breaker if your display is 1080p. For me, at the moment, it would be as my display is 1360 x 768 which is NOT accepted by my AVR as a valid resolution (to take out the audio and then pass it on to the display).

The RadianceXE will be priced at $4995 when we have it.

jrp,

Can you give more clarity on this issue?

If someone were to purchase your product now would it be the XD or the XE? I'm not trying to be overly critical but this is a bit of a quandary. Many products currently are already 1.3 capable. I'm trying to figure out why someone would get the XD now?

FEATURES TO BE IMPLEMENTED AFTER FIRST PRODUCTION RELEASE:

24p, 24sF, 48p output support for interlaced input
I have a question about this. Isn't 24p output something we would want for any film-sourced input that's been through 2:3 pulldown and is output at 60Hz, regardless of whether or not it's presented in interlaced form to the Radiance?

In other words, don't we want 24p output for 720p60 (film) sources as well? And also for 1080p60 (film) sources?

jrp,

Can you give more clarity on this issue?

If someone were to purchase your product now would it be the XD or the XE? I'm not trying to be overly critical but this is a bit of a quandary. Many products currently are already 1.3 capable. I'm trying to figure out why someone would get the XD now?

We will be bringing out the HDMI 1.3 RadianceXE in Beta form late this Summer. It will be $4995. The RadianceXD is $3999 in the US today, but will have a price increase to $4495 on 7/1. Anyone who currently owns or buys a RadianceXD before 6/30/08 can upgrade to the RadianceXE (again in the US) for $1000 if they do so by 12/31/08. After that the price for the upgrade will increase to an amount we have not yet set.

We added this program to give people incentive to not wait for HDMI 1.3 since the total cost is -- barring shipping for the upgrade -- the same.

Honestly most people who I have talked to believe they will be very happy with the HDMI 1.1 RadianceXD for some time to come. The main reason to upgrade is if you have, or plan to purchase, an HDMI 1.3 source that will not decode the uncompressed audio formats internally.

The new Pioneer Blu-Ray players and receivers will somehow synchronize their clocks so that jitter is eliminated. I'm not sure how they realized that. But maybe they're already making use of the "HDMI 1.3 lipsync" functionality for this purpose?

I would be interested in what they do exactly.

Jim,

"The main reason to upgrade is if you have, or plan to purchase, an HDMI 1.3 source that will not decode the uncompressed audio formats internally."

Worth pointing out that the other way of dealing with this is putting the Radiance XD behind a persons receiver/pre-pro. Same thing for the case of a receiver not handling a custom output resolution of the Radiance.

When the upcoming 'virtual inputs' feature is in the Radiance one could still have complete calibration by source as if all the HDMI feeds went directly into the Radiance itself. Virtual inputs would basically allow one to have numerous selectable 'inputs' (with all their associated memories) tied to the same physical input on the Radiance.

The only things lost putting the Radiance behind the receiver/pre-pro is the multiple HDMI receivers in the Radiances and PIP/POP for multiple HDMI sources.

Shawn

Shawn:

Thanks. A very good point.

Jim,

"The main reason to upgrade is if you have, or plan to purchase, an HDMI 1.3 source that will not decode the uncompressed audio formats internally."

Worth pointing out that the other way of dealing with this is putting the Radiance XD behind a persons receiver/pre-pro. Same thing for the case of a receiver not handling a custom output resolution of the Radiance.

When the upcoming 'virtual inputs' feature is in the Radiance one could still have complete calibration by source as if all the HDMI feeds went directly into the Radiance itself. Virtual inputs would basically allow one to have numerous selectable 'inputs' (with all their associated memories) tied to the same physical input on the Radiance.

The only things lost putting the Radiance behind the receiver/pre-pro is the multiple HDMI receivers in the Radiances and PIP/POP for multiple HDMI sources.

Shawn

Very true and I am a looking forward to Virtual Inputs for that reason.

There are some HTPC and Video processor users that may require 1.3. Most PrePro's do not accept non-standard HTDV resolutions so you cannot send the video to the PrePro first. It must go to the Radiance then send the video to the display and the Audio to the PrePro. Combined Audio and Video is problematic for many HTPCs. Of course, this is the bleeding edge ;)

- Rich

We put a Production Candidate software release (052608) up on our website today.

yayyyy

We put a Production Candidate software release (052608) up on our website today.
Awesome! This version updated fine, Radiance works again.

Not sure if these are new problems or only on my end, but I've noticed:

1. On 576i50->1080p50, I am getting green random artifacts. 576p50 works fine.
2. When pressing OK to get info screen, on 1080p50 the OSD is squished, displays fine when outputing 1080p60

Also, with my VP50Pro, it can automatically chose to output 1080p50 if a 50Hz source is selected, and it automatically outputs 1080p60 if a 60Hz source is selected. How can I achieve this with the Radiance?

Gino:

Put in your 50 Hz source.
Go to MENU>IN>VIDEO SETUP> you will see an asterix beside the resolution sub memory you are now using press >picture>out1 select> then scroll the CONFIG TO SOMETHING LIKE CONFIG 7 (480P)

Then go left cursor back to menu tree start and go down to OUTPUT>CONFIGS> you'll now see an asterix at the config number you elected to use for that sub res memory...press > SELECT MODE> AND SCROLL through to choose the res and refresh you want to use ...once done go and sSAVE SAVE SAVE...

You carry out this procedure for all the resolutions you are sending in.

And will it then automatically choose the correct output framerate depending on the source framerate?

Basically I am running all sources through my Denon AVP-A1HD, this then outputs to HDMI1 on the Radiance at the sources native resolution/framerate. So what I would like is for the Radiance to output at 1080p, but at 24,50 or 60Hz depending on what my Denon is playing, can it do this automatically?

I've previously used the VP30,VP50 and now VP50Pro, and this could be done automatically. I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around the Lumagen menu's.

Yes, it will. I have mine configured exactly like that. Just follow Gordon's instructions to set up 24, 50 and 60 one by one.

Gino:

Put in your 50 Hz source.
Go to MENU>IN>VIDEO SETUP> you will see an asterix beside the resolution sub memory you are now using press >picture>out1 select> then scroll the CONFIG TO SOMETHING LIKE CONFIG 7 (480P)

Then go left cursor back to menu tree start and go down to OUTPUT>CONFIGS> you'll now see an asterix at the config number you elected to use for that sub res memory...press > SELECT MODE> AND SCROLL through to choose the res and refresh you want to use ...once done go and sSAVE SAVE SAVE...

You carry out this procedure for all the resolutions you are sending in.


As stated you must be inputting the actual source you wish to tie the Config to. I was using the HDP where you can match inputs and configs without actually inputting the source and it took me a while to realize the difference.

Awesome, thanks very much everyone! Everything works... funny, now the interface menu makes sense :)

And will it then automatically choose the correct output framerate depending on the source framerate?

Basically I am running all sources through my Denon AVP-A1HD, this then outputs to HDMI1 on the Radiance at the sources native resolution/framerate. So what I would like is for the Radiance to output at 1080p, but at 24,50 or 60Hz depending on what my Denon is playing, can it do this automatically?
Yes and no. It works as long as the input format is exactly one of those 8 specifically supported formats. If you input a source format into the Radiance which is not in the list of specifically supported formats, automatic selection of the correct output refresh rate doesn't work. In a future firmware version we'll be able to customize the list of supported input formats. However, it will be limited to 8 entries. So let's hope that nobody needs more than 8 different input formats.

Personally, I'd like to see an option to specify "any input resolution with 50Hz should be output as 50Hz, any input resolution with 24Hz should be output as 24Hz and any input resolution with 60Hz should be output as 60Hz". I've already suggested this on the Radiance beta forum. But it seems that my "any resolution" wish is not going to be implemented... :(

The new Pioneer Blu-Ray players and receivers will somehow synchronize their clocks so that jitter is eliminated. I'm not sure how they realized that. But maybe they're already making use of the "HDMI 1.3 lipsync" functionality for this purpose?

My guess would be they are using the synch rate control commands that are part of the CEC sub spec of HDMI 1.3A. The Lumagen would need to pass the CEC commands along to the receiver if it is between the receiver and source device, if it is after the receiver in the chain then it will not matter.

Personally, I'd like to see an option to specify "any input resolution with 50Hz should be output as 50Hz, any input resolution with 24Hz should be output as 24Hz and any input resolution with 60Hz should be output as 60Hz". I've already suggested this on the Radiance beta forum. But it seems that my "any resolution" wish is not going to be implemented... :(

The Anthem AVM50/Statement D2 does this and it's called "framelock".

The Anthem AVM50/Statement D2 does this and it's called "framelock".
I find that very useful.

That said, the Lumagen menu logic is very flexible. You can store different calibration etc settings for every input format. That's really nice. But still I think it is one of the most important features of a video processor to match input and output framerates to avoid any motion judder. And with the Radiance you have to do a lot of custom setup tweaks to make that work properly. And if you have more than 8 different input formats, you are out of luck.

IMO the Radiance "catch all" entry (one of those 8 input format memories) should have an option to automatically match input/output framerates.

The Anthem AVM50/Statement D2 does this and it's called "framelock".


Yes, but then you have to deal with the poor sonics and lesser VP capabilities of an all in one piece. Moreover, the Anthem is only 5.1.

Madshi, are you asking for a simplification in the set up? The Radiance can do what you ask.. Or am I not understanding what you want.

Madshi, are you asking for a simplification in the set up? The Radiance can do what you ask.
How do you setup the Radiance if you have these input formats:

- 480i60, 480p60, 576i50, 576p50, 1080i50, 1080i60, 1080p24, 1080p50, 1080p60, 720p50, 720p60

These are just the absolute standard resolutions. There are some more funny resolutions which might occur. E.g. my HTPC outputs 1080p25 for PAL HDTV movies. Furthermore I've some trailers that are 720p24 or 720p25. So the list of input formats can be very long, especially if you live in Europe. But the Radiance only has 8 memories for input formats. Actually only 7 because one is used for "catch all". How do you setup the Radiance so that for each of the mentioned input formats listed above the input and output framerates match? It's just not possible. You can setup things for 7 input formats. All other input formats will run through the "catch all" configuration which uses one specific output refresh rate.

Moreover, the Anthem is only 5.1.

:rolleyes:

How do you setup the Radiance if you have these input formats:

- 480i60, 480p60, 576i50, 576p50, 1080i50, 1080i60, 1080p24, 1080p50, 1080p60, 720p50, 720p60

These are just the absolute standard resolutions. There are some more funny resolutions which might occur. E.g. my HTPC outputs 1080p25 for PAL HDTV movies. Furthermore I've some trailers that are 720p24 or 720p25. So the list of input formats can be very long, especially if you live in Europe. But the Radiance only has 8 memories for input formats. Actually only 7 because one is used for "catch all". How do you setup the Radiance so that for each of the mentioned input formats listed above the input and output framerates match? It's just not possible. You can setup things for 7 input formats. All other input formats will run through the "catch all" configuration which uses one specific output refresh rate.


I thought Jim said they are planning on increasing the inputs on the Radiance 16 inputs (from 8).

That should help. Admittedly, your needs are rare ones compared to most but if the Radiance goes to 16 (I believe it is in th FAQ), then you should be good.

I thought Jim said they are planning on increasing the inputs on the Radiance 16 inputs (from 8).
That's news to me! Do you have a link? 16 input memories would certainly do the trick for me.

FWIW, Jim told me they might consider offering a functionality where the MEM A/B/C/D banks can be joined to increase the number of input format sub memories. But I haven't seen this on any roadmap. Furthermore we'd lose ISF night/day calibration functionality that way etc...

Admittedly, your needs are rare ones compared to most
Why do you think so? Just think about what kind of content a European movie fan is likely to have:

(1) PAL DVDs (576i50)
(2) NTSC DVDs (480i60)
(3) European HDTV broadcasts (some are 720p50)
(4) European HDTV broadcasts (some are 1080i50)
(5) Blu-Ray movies (1080p24)
(6) Blu-Ray music concerts (1080i60)

This is what many many European film fans already have today. Now add to that gaming content (game PC, game consoles) and 7 format memories can run short very quickly. I think you NTSC guys are just not aware of what colorful mix of formats we Europeans meet every day!

Just think about what kind of content a European movie fan is likely to have:

(1) PAL DVDs (576i50)
(2) NTSC DVDs (480i60)
(3) European HDTV broadcasts (some are 720p50)
(4) European HDTV broadcasts (some are 1080i50)
(5) Blu-Ray movies (1080p24)
(6) Blu-Ray music concerts (1080i60)

This is what many many European film fans already have today. Now add to that gaming content (game PC, game consoles) and 7 format memories can run short very quickly. I think you NTSC guys are just not aware of what colorful mix of formats we Europeans meet every day!Madshi, I have all of the above, but like most people, I don't have them all on one input...

The following may work for you when it's implemented:

1) The eight input format sub-memories are going to be user configurable.
2) "Virtual" inputs on the same physical input are going to be implemented.

You could make use of two virtual inputs on the same HDMI input, with the format sub-memories in the two inputs configured appropriately. If you have a macro-capable remote, switching the virtual inputs shouldn't be a problem.

@VirusKiller, are you sure that we will be able to configure the format list per input? I thought that it would be a global setting. Might be wrong, though.

Anyway, I hope that I'll sooner or later find an external media player (e.g. Tvix or NMT) which will offer a "native output" feature. If such a media player ever sees the light of day, that will mean that we will have all formats on one input.

Personally, I'd like to see an option to specify "any input resolution with 50Hz should be output as 50Hz, any input resolution with 24Hz should be output as 24Hz and any input resolution with 60Hz should be output as 60Hz". I've already suggested this on the Radiance beta forum.

Isn't the goal to get all film to output at 24p?

That's news to me! Do you have a link? 16 input memories would certainly do the trick for me.

FWIW, Jim told me they might consider offering a functionality where the MEM A/B/C/D banks can be joined to increase the number of input format sub memories. But I haven't seen this on any roadmap. Furthermore we'd lose ISF night/day calibration functionality that way etc...


Why do you think so? Just think about what kind of content a European movie fan is likely to have:

(1) PAL DVDs (576i50)
(2) NTSC DVDs (480i60)
(3) European HDTV broadcasts (some are 720p50)
(4) European HDTV broadcasts (some are 1080i50)
(5) Blu-Ray movies (1080p24)
(6) Blu-Ray music concerts (1080i60)

This is what many many European film fans already have today. Now add to that gaming content (game PC, game consoles) and 7 format memories can run short very quickly. I think you NTSC guys are just not aware of what colorful mix of formats we Europeans meet every day!

You are absolutely right!
I have the same issue as I use an all-in-one HTPC as my main source..

Isn't the goal to get all film to output at 24p?
Well, of course that would be lovely. But it's technically not really feasible for a video processor. In order to convert PAL film to 24p the video processor would have to fully decode any audio stream (including TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio etc) and then resample the audio in real time. This is just not reasonable, as nice as it would be.

Ah...Thank you. Obviously I'm a non-Pal user.

But still you wouldn't want 60Hz in to always be 60Hz out if it was film?

and any input resolution with 60Hz should be output as 60Hz

Well, of course that would be lovely. But it's technically not really feasible for a video processor. In order to convert PAL film to 24p the video processor would have to fully decode any audio stream (including TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio etc) and then resample the audio in real time. This is just not reasonable, as nice as it would be.

This is moot for HD where all films, in all territories, are stored as 24p?

Mark

But still you wouldn't want 60Hz in to always be 60Hz out if it was film?
Correct, you would want 60i film in to be converted to 24p out. BUT you would want 50i film in to be converted to 25p or 50p out!

This is moot for HD where all films, in all territories, are stored as 24p?
It is moot for most Blu-Ray movies which are 24p in all territories. However, European HD broadcasts are still 1080i50 or 720p50 and that is not going to change.

@VirusKiller, are you sure that we will be able to configure the format list per input? I thought that it would be a global setting. Might be wrong, though.The dummy menu item is within the input menu, so I think the editing is on a per input basis. A question for Lumagen though.

The dummy menu item is within the input menu, so I think the editing is on a per input basis. A question for Lumagen though.

The programmable input sub-resolution will be per-input-memory. This is shown, as Virus Killer, notes by the placement in the menu tree.

We have also talked about general modes to allow, for example, "all 24p inputs output at 1080p24." Not sure we have talked about this publically though.

We have yet to work out the details of course.

Yes, but then you have to deal with the poor sonics and lesser VP capabilities of an all in one piece. Moreover, the Anthem is only 5.1.

.

I was in no way trying to suggest the Anthem products were better or even equal to the Radiance. I was simply pointing out that the framelock feature was included, that's all. As the Anthem also utilizes the Gennum VXP (although be it an earlier version), I'm sure the same feature could be easily implemented in the Radiance.

That's news to me! Do you have a link? 16 input memories would certainly do the trick for me.

FWIW, Jim told me they might consider offering a functionality where the MEM A/B/C/D banks can be joined to increase the number of input format sub memories. But I haven't seen this on any roadmap. Furthermore we'd lose ISF night/day calibration functionality that way etc...


Why do you think so? Just think about what kind of content a European movie fan is likely to have:

(1) PAL DVDs (576i50)
(2) NTSC DVDs (480i60)
(3) European HDTV broadcasts (some are 720p50)
(4) European HDTV broadcasts (some are 1080i50)
(5) Blu-Ray movies (1080p24)
(6) Blu-Ray music concerts (1080i60)

This is what many many European film fans already have today. Now add to that gaming content (game PC, game consoles) and 7 format memories can run short very quickly. I think you NTSC guys are just not aware of what colorful mix of formats we Europeans meet every day!

With the "framelock" feature engaged as currently implemented on my "other" Gennum-based VP:), and using a Sony BD player in "source direct" mode, I get 480i60->1080p60, 1080i60->1080p60, 1080p24->1080p24 and it all happens automatically on the same input. This is with output set at 1080p24 and framelock "on".

I don't use PAL, but I'd assume you could also do 576i50->1080p50, 720p50->1080p50, 1080i50->1080p50 in the same way as long as the source switches native resolution automatically.

The programmable input sub-resolution will be per-input-memory. This is shown, as Virus Killer, notes by the placement in the menu tree.

We have also talked about general modes to allow, for example, "all 24p inputs output at 1080p24." Not sure we have talked about this publically though.

We have yet to work out the details of course.
Thank you. Those "general modes" sound very good to me.

We have also talked about general modes to allow, for example, "all 24p inputs output at 1080p24." Not sure we have talked about this publically though.


I have been using 2 output configuration memories for each calibration - one with a 24p output, the other with 60p. This way I am only able to have 4 separate calibration profiles. It would be nice to have a "if input signal is 1080p24 output 24p, otherwise output 1080p60 for all other input resolutions" option. That way I could make use of all 8 output configurations instead of doubling up.

Personally, I'd like to see an option to specify "any input resolution with 50Hz should be output as 50Hz, any input resolution with 24Hz should be output as 24Hz and any input resolution with 60Hz should be output as 60Hz". I've already suggested this on the Radiance beta forum. But it seems that my "any resolution" wish is not going to be implemented... :(
That's unfortunate. The dvdo processors work that way.

It would be nice to have a "if input signal is 1080p24 output 24p, otherwise output 1080p60 for all other input resolutions" option.
That should be easily possible once the input format list is configurable.

That's unfortunate. The dvdo processors work that way.
If you read Jim's latest comment it seems that a future firmware might do the trick for us. IIRC with the DVDO processors you automatically get your own configuration memory for every different input format. This is not so different from what Lumagen has implemented now. The only difference is that with DVDO this logic is "hidden" and nobody knows exactly how many different memories they support. With Lumagen it's possible to see and configure exactly what it does. However, the Radiance seems to have less input format sub memories compared to the DVDOs and you have to setup them manually to your needs. With DVDO everything is done automatically. I think both approaches have their advantages and disadvantages. Ideally I'd love to have a combination of both. But if Lumagen implements what Jim has hinted in his previous comment that'd certainly be good enough for my needs.

Lumagen has plans I believe to output 1080p24 with any source, which should really be the goal. The HDP already does this.

"Lumagen has plans I believe to output 1080p24 with any source, which should really be the goal. "

Only for film sources.

Shawn

Quite right. And it will add another layer of complexity to the Mems and Configs unless it is possible to do automatic cadence detection?

Quite right. And it will add another layer of complexity to the Mems and Configs unless it is possible to do automatic cadence detection?The problem is, what if you lose film cadence lock? You can't change output scan rate as HDMI re-negotiation isn't exactly blink-of-an-eye.

What would be nice is a "sticky" mode, but realistically, I'm think we'll be dealing with this on a Mem A/B/C/D basis.

Totally agree about Mem complexity. I use Mem A for 16:9 material (currently film/video) and Mem B to vertically shift a 2.35:1 image to the bottom of my 16:9 screen. That means I'm going to need Mem C to cope with 16:9 film if Mem A is set to video. Now I'm out of memories for day/night viewing.

I'm not sure this is going to be an easy one for Lumagen to crack.

The problem is, what if you lose film cadence lock? You can't change output scan rate as HDMI re-negotiation isn't exactly blink-of-an-eye.
This is where 120Hz would come in handy: You could change between video and film mode on the fly without having to change the output mode at all. Unfortunately it's only a nice idea in theory. Practically I don't thing we'll find a display on the market which accepts 120Hz signals. So you can forget what I just wrote... :p

Talking about frame rate inputs and outputs, are we not to have a function soon that can extract the original raw format, eg, 1080P60 in extracted to 1080P24 out, inverse telecine?

Is this Genlock? and what exactly can this do eg..poss extract original from 1080i50??

TIA.

This is where 120Hz would come in handy: You could change between video and film mode on the fly without having to change the output mode at all. Unfortunately it's only a nice idea in theory. Practically I don't thing we'll find a display on the market which accepts 120Hz signals. So you can forget what I just wrote... :p
My blended CRT projection setup does ;):p

I don't think that 1080p60 to 1080p24 extraction is planned. Realistically, you'd be better off sending 1080i60 from the player to the Radiance anyway to allow it to distinguish between video and film.

There is to be a function to convert 1080i60 and 480i60 film to 24fps. This is separate to, but likely to be used with genlock.

"Lumagen has plans I believe to output 1080p24 with any source, which should really be the goal. "

Only for film sources.

ShawnA few posts back I asked (not you specifically, but the forum) the question: should this not apply to progressive signals as well, if they're film-derived?

I ask because the upcoming features list only mentions conversion of interlaced film sources to 24p.

But film sources encoded as 720p60 (as many US TV series are) or as 1080p60 will also have the undesirable 2:3 cadence unless processed to 24p for output, will they not?

I've been asssuming from the beginning that the Radiance would eventually provide this, but I may have been wrong.

But film sources encoded as 720p60 (as many US TV series are) or as 1080p60 will also have the undesirable 2:3 cadence unless processed to 24p for output, will they not?Living in PAL-land, I'd completely missed that scenario. Unfortunately, I think that because the Radiance architecture uses a Gennum chip for all cadence detection and deinterlacing, recognizing the 2:3 cadence in progressive material may not be possible. I'm sure it could be done in FPGA firmware after the Gennum, but I'm not sure Lumagen want to commit programming and processing resource to that feature.

A question vis-a-vis the audio switching capability of the unit ...

I am trying to decide whether to use my unit for digital audio switching, or, to do that in the AV processor instead. The former is easier for my Wife and kids, the latter might sound better.

So my question -- any comments and/or measurement of the digital audio processing capability of the unit? For example, is it a low jitter or jitter reducing design? Is the digital audi pass through implemented with the same fanaticism as the video processing? Anyone do an A/B comparison?

Thanks.

The release version of the Radiance manual is available and can be downloaded from our website. http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=manuals

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

A question vis-a-vis the audio switching capability of the unit ...

I am trying to decide whether to use my unit for digital audio switching, or, to do that in the AV processor instead. The former is easier for my Wife and kids, the latter might sound better.

So my question -- any comments and/or measurement of the digital audio processing capability of the unit? For example, is it a low jitter or jitter reducing design? Is the digital audi pass through implemented with the same fanaticism as the video processing? Anyone do an A/B comparison?

Thanks.

We do a good job with digital audio switching. However, if you have a high-end audio processor, I think you could get better results switching audio with it. We do not have de-jitter circuitry, where high-end amps do. So we can't reduce the jitter already present.

I think the choice is system specific. If you switch audio with the Radiance you can switch both audio and video with one input selection. Switching audio in the the receiver means one less component in the audio path, which is not a bad thing. If you switch HDMI audio/video with your audio processor, make sure the video processing in the audio processor can be turned off. Some audio processors mess with the video no matter what. So you should avoid switching HDMI with these and instead use the Radiance to switch HDMI and then have it output the audio to the audio processor.

The RadianceXD Production software release is now up on the Lumagen website.

We will continue Luamgen's "living product" methodolgy and will have enhancement releases at the rate of one or two per month for some time to come.

Thanks to everyone for your support.

Jim: THanks again for the awesome support for your products. I know viruskiller had mentioned firmware down the road that will convert 1080i60 and 480i60 film to 24fps...do you have a projected timeframe for this update?

My BenQ is a little flaky...if you switch from 1080p 24fps to 1080p60fps output (meaning going from last viewing of a Blu Ray to an SD Dvd, then I get a judder in the image. I have to turn the projector off and restart it again (not great on the lamp). I would love to leave the output at 24fps for all movie sources (BR/HDDVD and OPPO SD Player).

Thanks
Ron

The RadianceXD Production software release is now up on the Lumagen website.

We will continue Luamgen's "living product" methodolgy and will have enhancement releases at the rate of one or two per month for some time to come.

Thanks to everyone for your support.

Congrats on the production release!!!!!!!!!

I know it is a huge thing for you guys. It sure is for us users.

I know viruskiller had mentioned firmware down the road that will convert 1080i60 and 480i60 film to 24fps...do you have a projected timeframe for this update?

I am anxious for this feature as well. This is the original feature that got me looking into getting a VP in the first place. Even without it though, I am glad I picked up the Radiance.

Jim, on the subject of 24p output: can you tell us whether the Radiance will be able to output 24p for all film-based sources, progressive as well as interlaced?

In particular I'm hoping that 720p60 sources (like many US TV series) can be processed to remove the 2:3 cadence as well, and that this feature won't be confined to sources that originate as 1080i or 480i.

would anyone be interested in a HD-SDI input mod for the Radiance, capable of 480i/480p/576i/576p/720p/1080i/1080p24 input ?

if so speak up and let me know ;)

-Gary

would anyone be interested in a HD-SDI input mod for the Radiance, capable of 480i/480p/576i/576p/720p/1080i/1080p24 input ?

if so speak up and let me know ;)

-Gary

COOL! But would depend on cost.

I stopped using my Theta Compli with SDI and instead am using an Oppo 980 with 480i over HDMI. Due to 480i over HDMI there just isn't near as much interest in SDI as there used to be.

COOL! But would depend on cost.

I stopped using my Theta Compli with SDI and instead am using an Oppo 980 with 480i over HDMI. Due to 480i over HDMI there just isn't near as much interest in SDI as there used to be.

thanks for the reply Steve

HD-SDI would be the main point of this, or where the most interest is

-Gary

Congrats on the production release!!!!!!!!!

I know it is a huge thing for you guys. It sure is for us users.

I would like to second that vote. Great support and I hope you folks can take well deserved
vacations.

Do the HD-SDI ports also accept SD-SDI too? I might be interested.

I would like to second that vote. Great support and I hope you folks can take well deserved
vacations.

But only make it a long weekend vacation. We can't wait for the rest of the stuff on the to do list to get done. :D

Do the HD-SDI ports also accept SD-SDI too? I might be interested.

yes ;)

-Gary

"Do the HD-SDI ports also accept SD-SDI too? I might be interested."

Why not just use a SDI-HDMI converter for that? No worries about mods on a $4k processor.

Shawn

I'm using Toshiba XA1 HD-SDI and Panasonic BD-10 HD-SDI with Crystalio II vps-3800.

But very interested in Radiance HD-SDI Input Mod.

"Do the HD-SDI ports also accept SD-SDI too? I might be interested."

Why not just use a SDI-HDMI converter for that? No worries about mods on a $4k processor.

Shawn

from a purity standpoint, converters are a no no, however they may work ok, but would not be up to the level of a direct input

if someone is taking the time and expense to add HD-SDI to their system they are probably not the type to want a converter :)

-Gary

"from a purity standpoint, converters are a no no, however they may work ok, but would not be up to the level of a direct input"

How are they a no no from a purity stand point? HDMI can carry 4:2:2 just the same as SDI. As far as quality please no screen shot from a HDMI player and a video processor that has a known incompatibility between them which causes video artifacts.

"if someone is taking the time and expense to add HD-SDI to their system they are probably not the type to want a converter "

Too bad it would end up getting converted to HDMI anyway then.

Shawn

Why not just use a SDI-HDMI converter for that? No worries about mods on a $4k processor.Shawn: I'm inclined to believe if done right, and done so that is becomes basically a hardware stream conversion (i.e. no translations), it would be a good thing, too. But I'm certaintly no expert on the subject.

re the converter, Do you know of one that exists? I haven't seen one.

Jim: I know you guys aren't doing the HD-SDI input on the Radiance now and I presume it is becasue of your experience with usage (sales) on the older scalers that have it. I remember some talk about the suggestion to use HD-SDI to HDMI converters for that purpose back somewhere, maybe in this thread.

I would be interested in your or your guys opinions on whether or not an HD-SDI -> HDMI converter would pose any quality issues (vs a mod bypassing the HDMI input chip).

Thanks, Scott

A number of us have been waiting patiently for the SDI converter and have been absolutely assured that it is coming. If Jim thinks a converter is the way to go it is good enough for me.

A google will show that there are several HD-SDI/HDMI converters available (apparently all used in the pro field) but they do not work properly with the XD. It has never been clearly explained why.

Steve B: what caused your reversal? At one time you were happy with your Aja (?) but then discovered it had problems???

Also please add me to those are looking forward to 24p output with most any film based source.

"I know you guys aren't doing the HD-SDI input on the Radiance now and I presume it is becasue of your experience with usage (sales) on the older scalers that have it."

I believe Lumagen is planning on a Radiance 'Pro' down the line that will have HD-SDI built in.

Shawn

I believe Lumagen is planning on a Radiance 'Pro' down the line that will have HD-SDI built in.This is probable (but not certain). However, the Radiance Pro is likely to be much more expensive vs. the XD/XE.

Last I heard, Lumagen were waiting for the first batch of prototype SDI-to-HDMI converter boards.

all the SDI to HDMI converters I have seen are just that, converters, there is a conversion there bottom line

the whole point of SDI is to rid yourself of conversions, insertions like HDCP etc.

Too bad it would end up getting converted to HDMI anyway then.

that is a invalid conclusion, any signal input into the scaler is converted via the video processor doing it's thing and then output output as HDMI, what does that have to do with HD-SDI signals?, using that logic says that SDI is the same as composite, whats does it matter because everything is converted to HDMI anyway? :confused:

I hope that Lumagen is adding a HD-SDI input to a pro version, they are missing out without it

-Gary

"the whole point of SDI is to rid yourself of conversions, insertions like HDCP etc."

No, the whole point of SDI was to rid one of the A/D in the player and D/A again in the VP. Now that HDMI outputs are available the reasons for having SDI has been morphed on to other things.

"that is a invalid conclusion, any signal input into the scaler is converted via the video processor doing it's thing and then output output as HDMI, what does that have to do with HD-SDI signals?,"

You are the one that said those interested in HD-SDI would want to avoid a HD-SDI->HDMI converter. A scaler with only HDMI outputs that would be modded with a HD-SDI input among other things is an HD-SDI->HDMI converter.

Either that conversion is bad no matter what or it isn't. If it isn't bad it could be done ahead of the processor just the same as if the processor did it internally.

Shawn

"the whole point of SDI is to rid yourself of conversions, insertions like HDCP etc."

No, the whole point of SDI was to rid one of the A/D in the player and D/A again in the VP. Now that HDMI outputs are available the reasons for having SDI has been morphed on to other things.

"that is a invalid conclusion, any signal input into the scaler is converted via the video processor doing it's thing and then output output as HDMI, what does that have to do with HD-SDI signals?,"

You are the one that said those interested in HD-SDI would want to avoid a HD-SDI->HDMI converter. A scaler with only HDMI outputs that would be modded with a HD-SDI input among other things is an HD-SDI->HDMI converter.

Either that conversion is bad no matter what or it isn't. If it isn't bad it could be done ahead of the processor just the same as if the processor did it internally.

Shawn

again I do not agree at all, the point of SDI is source related and has nothing to do with the scaler end all, HDMI does not replace SDI because it is digital (which is what you are hinting), time and time again videophiles have compared them and every time SDI wins

my point is simply that a chain of HD-SDI source straight into a scaler will outperform a HD-SDI source fed into a HDMI converter which then feeds a scaler, this is rather simple, there are less conversions HD-SDI to scaler vs converter boxes thrown in, I thought that was easy to understand? your argument "that a scaler converts it (HD-SDI) anyway" is beyond me

I give up on this discussion as it is going nowhere :o, I am sick of every time I mention anything related to SDI I have to get into arguments about it's validity, purpose and deployment, I have no interest in proving it one way or another as I don't have to

I simply posted to gauge interest in a possible mod and I got that :)

-Gary

Has there been a final decision whether the pro unit will happen? It has been talked about for so long.

Martin

I have just set up my Planar 8150 projector with a Schneider 1.33x anamorphic lens.

8150 is connected to my Lumagen RadianceXD.

I use a HTPC to play my 2.35:1 movies.

My Pioneer TV is on HDMI 1 Out.

My 8150 is on HDMI 2 Out.

-> What do I need to set up on the RadianceXD to display my 2.35:1 movies the "correct" way?

Thanks
Martin

http://www.lumagen.com/docs/Tip0003_MovableAnamorphicLens.pdf

http://www.lumagen.com/docs/Tip0003_MovableAnamorphicLens.pdf

Thanks Gordon!

I hadn't seen that document. I'll take a look at it right away :)

PS. Would you recommend the Lumagen solution in that document over the solution of using my projectors 2.35 stretch feature?

Thanks Gordon!

I hadn't seen that document. I'll take a look at it right away :)

PS. Would you recommend the Lumagen solution in that document over the solution of using my projectors 2.35 stretch feature?

Does anyone know how to reset an input'ed number in the RadianceXD menu?

I'm in the Crop Top Left menu, and the Top number is showing 69569 or something like that. It jumped to that insanely high number by itself. I would like to get it back to zero.

But holding down the "down button" takes forever :)

We have duplicated the extremely large number for the "Crop Top Left, Top edge" setting. We will look into this issue.

If you adjust the "Top Edge" to a negative number and see the number go to an extremely high number, press the "Exit" button to exit the adjustment without saving. If you already pressed "Ok" to save the current setting, you can cycle the power to restore the previous setting. If already saved your settings by pressing "Menu, Save, Save, Ok, Ok", you can undo one save by pressing "Menu, Save, Undo, Ok, Load, Ok".

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

To support a movable anamorphic lens we recently added an "Output aspect per input aspect" feature to the radiance. With a movable anamorphic lens, for 4:3, 16:9 and 1.85 movies you don't use the anamorphic lens so the projector is a 16:9 aspect ratio. For 2.35 movies, you use the anamorphic lens so the projector is a 2.35 aspect ratio.

To use this feature press "Menu, Output, Configs, [config], Aspect, Ok, Output aspect per input aspect, Ok".

Change the table entry for 2.35.

4:3 uses 1.78
Lbox uses 1.78
16:9 uses 1.78
1.85 uses 1.78
2.35 uses 2.35

Press "Ok" to exit the menu and keep the new setting.

Make sure that you save the new setting by pressing "Menu, Save, Save, Ok, Ok".

Now when you press the 4:3, Lbox, 16:9 or 1.85 input aspect ratio buttons on the remote, the Radiance will use a 16:9 output aspect ratio and Trigger2 output will be low. When you press the 2.35 input aspect ratio button on the remote, the Radiance will use a 2.35 output aspect ratio and Trigger2 output will be high.

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

"We have duplicated the extremely large number for the "Crop Top Left, Top edge" setting. We will look into this issue."

That was quick...reported at 2:24pm and it is fixed within 3 hours.

http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=radiance_updates

Shawn

I simply posted to gauge interest in a possible mod and I got that :)

-GaryWas it enough interest to proceed?? I would like to see it happen. Lumagen is bad to the bone when it comes to updates. They have won me as a loyal supporter. So I'd like to be able to use HD-SDI out into the radiance, one way or another. Next step down is to use Moome's "box" to eliminate those pesky handshake issues for HDMI; my main beef with it.

Now when you press the 4:3, Lbox, 16:9 or 1.85 input aspect ratio buttons on the remote, the Radiance will use a 16:9 output aspect ratio and Trigger2 output will be low. When you press the 2.35 input aspect ratio button on the remote, the Radiance will use a 2.35 output aspect ratio and Trigger2 output will be high.

Best regards,
Randy FreemanAnd if you will excuse the plug, the Radiance triggers work flawlessly with the CineSlide/Isco combination. That's according to several AVS regulars here who use the Radiance triggers to control the CineSlide exclusively. Thanks Randy.

Scott

And if you will excuse the plug, the Radiance triggers work flawlessly with the CineSlide/Isco combination. That's according to several AVS regulars here who use the Radiance triggers to control the CineSlide exclusively. Thanks Randy.

Scott

no need to excuse the plug, great product

-Gary

Was it enough interest to proceed??

yes! :cool:

-Gary

Sencore, Lumagen Create Strategic Partnership
Jun 16, 2008

Sencore and Lumagen have formed a strategic partnership to provide the highest quality video in the home theater and commercial AV markets. The idea behind pairing Lumagen's Radiance series video processors and Sencore's calibration tools is to enable integrators to completely implement video systems and correct many built-in problems in video displays.

The RadianceXD is a video processor and switcher that supports 18 video inputs: six 1080p60-capable HDMI with HDCP, four SD/HD component, four S-video, and four composite. The RadianceXD features two HDMI outputs at resolutions up to 1920 x 1080, at 60-Hertz (1080p60). The Radiance family of products offers 10-bit processing, per-pixel standard definition (SD) and high definition (HD) video de-interlacing with adaptive diagonal filtering, edge-enhancing scaling technology that does not add ringing. Additional important image quality features include temporal noise reduction for both SD and HD sources, and extensive calibration options.

Teaming the Sencore VideoPro generator and ColorPro color analyzer with the Radiance allows 11-step parametric grayscale and gamma calibration and full color space correction, independently at all primary and secondary points.

“These are perfectly matched technologies that play off of each other’s strengths,
creating an integrated solution that AV integrators previously have not been able to
address without highly specialized personnel and materials," stated Al Bowden, Sencore’s CEO. "We are looking forward to working together with such a high-quality partner company, especially with the caliber of people like Jim Peterson, who has set the bar for quality in the video processor industry.”

Lumagen’s founder, Jim Peterson, added that by integrating the Radiance family of video processors with Sencore Calibration Tools, "display optimization can be done precisely and quickly using Sencore’s user friendly GUI. The Sencore-Lumagen partnership allows Lumagen to focus on product improvements, while Sencore provides the five-star support that they are known for,” he stated.

Jim: I know viruskiller had mentioned firmware down the road that will convert 1080i60 and 480i60 film to 24fps...do you have a projected timeframe for this update?

My BenQ is a little flaky...if you switch from 1080p 24fps to 1080p60fps output (meaning going from last viewing of a Blu Ray to an SD Dvd, then I get a judder in the image. I have to turn the projector off and restart it again (not great on the lamp). I would love to leave the output at 24fps for all movie sources (BR/HDDVD and OPPO SD Player).

Thanks
Ron

I sent Randy a PM about the conversion output 1080p 24fps for other resolutions. Here was his response

Hi Ron,

The full implementation of the 1080p24 output on the Radiance is on our list. I would guess that it will be at least a couple months before we will be working on that. If we get more requests we might move the priority up.

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

And if you will excuse the plug, the Radiance triggers work flawlessly with the CineSlide/Isco combination. That's according to several AVS regulars here who use the Radiance triggers to control the CineSlide exclusively. Thanks Randy.

Scott

I am ONE of THEM!!! FLAWLESS EXECUTION Radiance/Cineslide/Isco!!!

The full implementation of the 1080p24 output on the Radiance is on our list. I would guess that it will be at least a couple months before we will be working on that. If we get more requests we might move the priority up.Ron, this doesn't answer whether or not 720p60 and 1080p60 to p24 conversion is going to be implemented. Did you explicitly mention this to Randy?

Ron, this doesn't answer whether or not 720p60 and 1080p60 to p24 conversion is going to be implemented. Did you explicitly mention this to Randy?

Here was my PM to Randy


Randy:

This question had come up on page 85 a number of times....don't think you saw it:

I know viruskiller had mentioned firmware down the road that will convert 1080i60 and 480i60 film to 24fps...do you have a projected timeframe for this update?


Thanks
Ron

Ah ok. You asked for a timescale for i60 -> p24.

And if you will excuse the plug, the Radiance triggers work flawlessly with the CineSlide/Isco combination. That's according to several AVS regulars here who use the Radiance triggers to control the CineSlide exclusively. Thanks Randy.

ScottDitto...No brainer execution.

When we fully implement the 1080p24 output on the Radiance you will be able to input 720p60 and 1080p60. Of course it is always best to set up your video source to output the video at it's native rate such as 480i or 1080p24.

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

When we fully implement the 1080p24 output on the Radiance you will be able to input 720p60 and 1080p60.
And you will properly detect the cadence in 1080p60 and remove only the doubled and trippled frames? Wow, that'd be good news!

Thanks for clearing that up, Randy.

So it should be the case that film-sourced 60Hz video of all types (480i, 480p. 720p, 1080i, 1080p) can be converted to 1080p24.

When is this coming

Cadence detection of 720p60 and 1080p60 video sources isn't a planned feature of the RadianceXD.

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

:(

Cadence detection of 720p60 and 1080p60 video sources isn't a planned feature of the RadianceXD.Darn. I was so hoping...

It's interesting that despite the insistence over the years (by Joe Kane and others) that we should prefer progressive over interlaced (and thus 720p over 1080i), we're left with this broadcast world in which we can remove 2:3 judder from interlaced film sources but not from progressive.

So we get higher resolution AND cadence removal with 1080i.

It's preferable to provide 480i or 1080i and let the Lumagen Radiance deinterlace the signal if the source is a movie. You could also provide 1080p24 to the Radiance if the source is a Blu-ray movie. Of course you need to set the output of the Radiance to 1080p24 or 1080p48 to get a judder free image on your display.

We don't have that option if the source is an ABC or Fox TV series like Lost or House. Those are film-sourced programs that are encoded at 720p60 with the 2:3 cadence added.

My point is that we have no way to turn those into judder-free 1080p24, though we will have it (eventually) with CBS or NBC shows like CSI or ER that are encoded at 1080i60.

We don't have that option if the source is an ABC or Fox TV series like Lost or House. Those are film-sourced programs that are encoded at 720p60 with the 2:3 cadence added.

My point is that we have no way to turn those into judder-free 1080p24, though we will have it (eventually) with CBS or NBC shows like CSI or ER that are encoded at 1080i60.It's interesting to note here the the DVDO VP50 series has the ability to extract the original interlaced frames from the progressive stream and de-interlace them again. They call it PReP (http://www.anchorbaytech.com/vrs_technology/prep.php). It works well on 480p and 1080p sources, turning badly de-interlaced progressive signals into a much better progressive one.

Except that here we're talking about sources that were never interlaced to begin with, so I wouldn't think there was anything PReP could usefully achieve.

Except that here we're talking about sources that were never interlaced to begin with, so I wouldn't think there was anything PReP could usefully achieve.DVD payers all start off with an interlaced signal, but some players only output a progressive 480p/576p signal. For example, many HDMI equiped players will only send out progressive signals.

Again, we're not talking about DVDs. We are (or at least I have been) talking about 720p60 broadcast video, which does not originate in interlaced form. So PReP is irrelevant.

Again, we're not talking about DVDs. We are (or at least I have been) talking about 720p60 broadcast video, which does not originate in interlaced form. So PReP is irrelevant.

Sometimes.
I have seen interlaced artifacts on FOX 720P from time to time.

But as time goes by, it should become less important.

- Rich

Jim,

"The main reason to upgrade is if you have, or plan to purchase, an HDMI 1.3 source that will not decode the uncompressed audio formats internally."

Worth pointing out that the other way of dealing with this is putting the Radiance XD behind a persons receiver/pre-pro. Same thing for the case of a receiver not handling a custom output resolution of the Radiance.

When the upcoming 'virtual inputs' feature is in the Radiance one could still have complete calibration by source as if all the HDMI feeds went directly into the Radiance itself. Virtual inputs would basically allow one to have numerous selectable 'inputs' (with all their associated memories) tied to the same physical input on the Radiance.

The only things lost putting the Radiance behind the receiver/pre-pro is the multiple HDMI receivers in the Radiances and PIP/POP for multiple HDMI sources.

Shawn

Very good point. This suggests that the XS version really needs only one HDMI input and one output. This is what I would like to see.

jrp: Can you give any estimate of when the XS version of the Raidance might be available?

Very good point. This suggests that the XS version really needs only one HDMI input and one output. This is what I would like to see.

jrp: Can you give any estimate of when the XS version of the Raidance might be available?

Any chance by the end of this year? (And I understand if you just can't say anything about it--but I hope it doesn't hurt to ask!)

Radiance Configuration utility Version 1.0

We just posted an updated version of the configuration utility for the Radiance. To use the utility you need to load software rev 061508 or newer on your Radiance.

This PC windows application can be used to backup or restore your setup to a PC. You can also use it to share your configuration with other users or Lumagen to solve problems.

You can download the new utility from the Lumagen website. http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=utilities

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

Has there been a final decision whether the pro unit will happen? It has been talked about for so long.

Martin

We still have plans for a Radiance Pro version but no schedule.

Any chance by the end of this year? (And I understand if you just can't say anything about it--but I hope it doesn't hurt to ask!)

No schedule yet for the RadianceXS. I will say we have yet to design the circuit board for the RadianceXS - although the RadianceXE circuit board is ready to order what we believe is the production revision of the board. Once we have tested the RadianceXE production board, we will spin the board for the RadianceXS.

Sorry but that is as specific as I can get.

Thanks for the interest.

is it going to have HD-SDI Jim?

thanks

-Gary

The plan was for 2 HD-SDI last time it came up but I don't think specs have been finalised.

Martin

No schedule yet for the RadianceXS. I will say we have yet to design the circuit board for the RadianceXS - although the RadianceXE circuit board is ready to order what we believe is the production revision of the board. Once we have tested the RadianceXE production board, we will spin the board for the RadianceXS.

Sorry but that is as specific as I can get.

Thanks for the interest.

Thanks much for keeping us posted.

The preliminary feature list for the RadiancePro has two HD-SDI inputs. We haven't decided on the final feature list.

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

great, good to hear

-Gary

When does one use the gamma control factor and when does one use the parametric gamma adjustment?

The preliminary feature list for the RadiancePro has two HD-SDI inputs. We haven't decided on the final feature list.

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

Can I put in a vote for 4 sdi (2SD + 2HD would be fine). I have 3 SD-SDI sources and might add an HD-SDI source.

Can I put in a vote for 4 sdi (2SD + 2HD would be fine). I have 3 SD-SDI sources and might add an HD-SDI source.

damn!! :p can I be your friend :D

SDI capable switchers are around and the Lumagen can store separate input calibrations then there you go;)

-Gary

Why not make the Radiance Pro modular when it comes to inputs and supply it in a bespoke configuration? Surely it wouldn't be too hard to have a generic input interface to the motherboard and auto-detect which modules are present?

It's going to be an expensive piece of kit and there is no way that Lumagen is going to satisfy everyone with a single configuration (which is kinda critical as it needs to maximize the potential audiance).

Why not make the Radiance Pro modular when it comes to inputs and supply it in a bespoke configuration? Surely it wouldn't be too hard to have a generic input interface to the motherboard and auto-detect which modules are present?

It's going to be an expensive piece of kit and there is no way that Lumagen is going to satisfy everyone with a single configuration (which is kinda critical as it needs to maximize the potential audiance).

There is an excellent Idea. If you made each card big enough for 12 RCAS (6 * 2 layout) then the possiblitiess are almost endless. Six cards could easily be fitted in a full width unit, limit each card to 4 inputs to keep things almost sane :).

Suggested cards:
Quad HDMI
Quad HD-SDI
Quad Component RCA
Single Component/RGB BNC and 1 Composite RCA
Dual RGB RCA + 2 Composite RCA
Quad RCA Composite
Quad Minidin S-Video
Triple S-Video BNC
Quad Composite BNC
Analogue Mix RCA (2 Component, 1 Composite & 1 SVid)
Analogue Mix BNC (1 Component, 1 Composite & 1 SVid)

Quad composite? I think I'd rather die! ;)

"When does one use the gamma control factor and when does one use the parametric gamma adjustment?"

Use the gamma factor to get the overall curve roughly to where you want it then use the parametric adjustment to do the final tweaking at the different IRE levels if needed.

Shawn

Before you adjust the gamma, carefully adjust the black level throughout your system. Don't be concerned about adjusting the gamma until you calibrate the black level of the display, Radiance output, Radiance input and video source.

The preference is to use the gamma factor control on the Radiance to adjust the gamma. The reason is that the resulting gamma curve is very accurately calculated and a smooth curve. To adjust the gamma factor press "Menu, Output, Configs, [config], Color Mgmt, Gamma, Ok". Press the arrow buttons on the remote to adjust the gamma factor between .85 to 1.30. You can see the affect of the change on the video that is playing. So it's a good idea to run a variety of video clips and see what setting gives you the best image.

You can also adjust the gamma in the Color Temperature menu. Press "Menu, Output, Configs, [config], Color Mgmt, Color Temp, [points], Ok". Be gental when you use this control for changing the gamma curve. If you make large changes, especially near black, you can create contouring on your image.

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

The preference is to use the gamma factor control on the Radiance to adjust the gamma. The reason is that the resulting gamma curve is very accurately calculated and a smooth curve.

There's something I'm not quite getting about this feature. If the display doesn't have a smooth curve to begin with, how could applying the gamma factor make it any smoother? It's just a multiplier - right?

The Radiance has a 2, 5 or 11 point color temperature command that can be used to correct the gamma response of a display. Press "Menu, Output, Configs, [config], Color Mgmt, Color Temp, [number of points], Ok". The points are parametric. This means that you can change the location of the 10 IRE point to 12 IRE. You can also group a number of points into one area to smooth out a large bump in the gamma curve.

There are a few things to keep in mind.
1. Your meter is probably not accurate below 20 IRE. You could be correcting your meter reading and not your display.
2. If you make a large enough change to a single point on the gamma curve you can cause contouring on your image.
3. Use you eyes. The human eye is a very good instrument and is much more sensitive than a meter below 20 IRE. Look at a variety of video test material to see if you are improving the image gamma.
4. We recently posted a configuration utility for the Radiance. You should use the utility to save your configuration to a PC before you make changes to the gamma curve.
5. We always recommend that you hire an ISF certified calibrator to calibrate your display. They have the education, equipment and experience to do this type of calibration.

Radiance has the controls you need to fully calibrate your display. We have many customers who have learned to do advanced video calibrations. The Radiance is a great tool for learning about video calibration.

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

I think I understand all that, Randy; it's just that you made is sound as if the gamma factor itself could smooth out a curve. Hence the head scratching :).

What I understand is this;
- use gamma factor to take overall gamma response to wherever you want it (for example, from 2.0 to 2.2).
- if the response curve has any bumps (and if it does, those bumps will be present regardless of gamma factor applied - in fact they might be amplified after applying it), THEN use the parametric Color Temp functionality to smooth those out.

Are my assumptions correct?


The Radiance has a 2, 5 or 11 point color temperature command that can be used to correct the gamma response of a display. Press "Menu, Output, Configs, [config], Color Mgmt, Color Temp, [number of points], Ok". The points are parametric. This means that you can change the location of the 10 IRE point to 12 IRE. You can also group a number of points into one area to smooth out a large bump in the gamma curve.

There are a few things to keep in mind.
1. Your meter is probably not accurate below 20 IRE. You could be correcting your meter reading and not your display.
2. If you make a large enough change to a single point on the gamma curve you can cause contouring on your image.
3. Use you eyes. The human eye is a very good instrument and is much more sensitive than a meter below 20 IRE. Look at a variety of video test material to see if you are improving the image gamma.
4. We recently posted a configuration utility for the Radiance. You should use the utility to save your configuration to a PC before you make changes to the gamma curve.
5. We always recommend that you hire an ISF certified calibrator to calibrate your display. They have the education, equipment and experience to do this type of calibration.

Radiance has the controls you need to fully calibrate your display. We have many customers who have learned to do advanced video calibrations. The Radiance is a great tool for learning about video calibration.

Best regards,
Randy Freeman