Are these per physical input? Otherwise it sounds like you're limited to 4 input devices as far as input specific settings go.

Again - is this 8 configs for each of MEMA/B/C/D? Or global?



Looks like I might have to redo or at least reword my explanation in the FAQ. :o

I'll take a swipe at this: Yes there are 4 seperate memory input bottons on the remote. They can be set differently for each of the inputs. Each of the 4 seperate memories has 8 different configuaration settings including 1 called "other" which would allow the user to specify a "non standard" setting.

(0) Well, my info is not first hand. So, this may be true. The issue as I understood it was one of license rights and not technical capability though.
I've digged a bit and found this post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11296368#post11296368

I do remember it being covered before, but my memory is that there was not only no talk of passing codec bitsteams, but that "advanced content" movies REQUIRED onboard decoding.
Well, we talked about both topics :). It is just that we talked a lot more about mixing being required for some experiences to make sense (e.g. PiP audio).

Both format camps: Was the plan/hope that decoding would always be done onboard so that audio from other sources could be mixed in, but other factors have caused you to relent and allow outboard decoding?
Per my earlier response, HD DVD spec allows this as evidenced by specific APIs in HDi to determine if mixing is turned off (i.e. bitstream output) and grey out the appropriate options.

As what the "hope" was, of course, it was for in player mixing. Content owners go through significant expense to create the interactive content. If everyone went and made bypass the default, it would all be for not. But no one would lose their HD DVD logo for putting in an option for bitstream output (with the default being decode in player).

I'll take a swipe at this: Yes there are 4 seperate memory input bottons on the remote. They can be set differently for each of the inputs. Each of the 4 seperate memories has 8 different configuaration settings including 1 called "other" which would allow the user to specify a "non standard" setting.

So in theory you could have:
number of physical inputs * 4 * 8 different configurations!

Wow. :eek:

I think my explanation wasn't too far off, I just didn't have the hierarchy exactly right, at least in my head. I'll clarify the FAQ tonight.

Does anyone have experience using the processor with a Marantz S4? The S4has a lower end chip by the same vendor ... not obvious how much improvement I'd gain via either newer silicon and/or algorithms.

Thanks.

ps -- 70% of material is "HD" via DirecTV/OTA, with 30% being DVDs fed by a Meridian 800 transport. Interconnects are HDMI

Does anyone have experience using the processor with a Marantz S4? The S4 has a lower end chip by the same vendor ... not obvious how much improvement I'd gain via either newer silicon and/or algorithms.

Thanks.

ps -- 70% of material is "HD" via DirecTV/OTA, with 30% being DVDs fed by a Meridian 800 transport. Interconnects are HDMI

The issue is NOT limited to the chip but also the implementation/functionality...that is, while the Lumagen's chip may/should be better, the flexibility and setup options will certainly be better than those in the Marantz.

Are these per physical input? Otherwise it sounds like you're limited to 4 input devices as far as input specific settings go.

Again - is this 8 configs for each of MEMA/B/C/D? Or global?

Looks like I might have to redo or at least reword my explanation in the FAQ. :o

There are four memories per physical input. So, 18 inputs, each with 4 independent memories.

One clarification for the RadianceXD:

Each of the 10 HD capable inputs (6 HDMI, 4 Component) has 8 sub-memories for each of their four memories. Each of the 8 SD only inputs (4 SVideo, 4 composite) has 2 submemories (480i and 576i) for each of their four memories.

So, there are a total of 384 input calibration memories (10 * 4 * 8 + 8 * 4 * 2), plus the 8 output configurations. Enough for just about anything you can think of. Most systems only need a small fraction of these memories.

Have a vp50 and I don't want to upgrade to the pro (unless I have to). From the Lumagen website, it says it has NR, does this box have a EE function?

As much as folks hate EE, I actually don't mind it. If the Lumagen doesn't have it, I might have to upgrade to the vp-pro. However, I need 2 HDMI outs. Currently using the monoprice 1X2 and I'm having major audio pops.

Thanks all.

Another day, another update to the RadianceXD FAQ. Yes, RadianceXD, not Radiance XD. Spaces are officially out. (If one of the moderators wouldn't mind updating the title of the thread, that'd be great. Not exactly crucial though.)

Anyhoo:
- added an interesting detail about the audio delay feature (jrp did get back to me, and quickly at that - the man rocks)
- rewrote the memory configuration explanation. I hadn't exactly gotten it wrong, but a couple of details were missing, and the hierarchy could have been interpreted incorrectly in the previous version

do you think putting the date at the end of each change might be helpful.

do you think putting the date at the end of each change might be helpful.

Like so?

I put either "updated on" or "new on" and then the date next to each relevant question. Not sure I can get more specific, I can't see doing the same thing within the answer even if I added a new bit of info. Let me know if that works for you.

Also, how long would you like these dates to stay in the FAQ?

Like so?

I put either "updated on" or "new on" and then the date next to each relevant question. Not sure I can get more specific, I can't see doing the same thing within the answer even if I added a new bit of info. Let me know if that works for you.

Also, how long would you like these dates to stay in the FAQ?
Great stuff again Dave. Certainly works for me this way. I think the dates could stay there for a long time, if not indefinitely.

Have a vp50 and I don't want to upgrade to the pro (unless I have to). From the Lumagen website, it says it has NR, does this box have a EE function?

Yes there is edge-enhancement capability in the RadianceXD. There will be controls for horizontal, vertical and diagonal edge enhancement.

Jim, I don't suppose there will be an anti-EE setting to dial away existing EE in a source? :D

Don't know if that's even theoretically possible without visible artefacts...

Mark

Small correction in the HDMI 1.3 question.

Yes there is edge-enhancement capability in the RadianceXD. There will be controls for horizontal, vertical and diagonal edge enhancement.

Thanks very much for the reply. Gonna have to order one very soon....

Jim, I don't suppose there will be an anti-EE setting to dial away existing EE in a source? :D

Don't know if that's even theoretically possible without visible artefacts...

Mark

I have heard that the EE can be reduced with a filter of some kind. We have had this request before and definitely will keep it in mind. I'm not sure exactly what frequency and how much filtering would be needed. If anyone has some data on this, I would love to get it as a starting place for the filter. Also, I imagine we need info for both SD and HD.

I can't sleep thinking about a system and the calibration of a system that needed anything close to 384 memories.

I can't sleep thinking about a system and the calibration of a system that needed anything close to 384 memories.It's not like you have to use them all. They'll just be there... waiting for you... should the need arise... :D

Jim and the Lumagen gang seem to be taking nearly everything off the wishlist and bitch list and address it with the XD. Of course it is inevitable that someone whines about needin 850 memories and 20 hdmi inputs..

DVDO has lifted the NDA on their VP50pro, do you guys still have an NDA on the RadianceXD? I need to decide which one to purchase but I would like to have some expert opinion and perhaps some screenshots. I think that some of DVDO's beta testers are also Lumangen beta testers. Can we get some opinions? Comparisons? Screenshots? Thanks.

There are some good pictures of the RadianceXD on our website.

http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=radiance_details

We already released the Radiance beta customers from part of the NDA concerning comments about video quality. At this point they are free to post comments about video quality.

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

I meant actual pictures of the Radiance in action. Before processing, after processing. With/without. Not the unit itself. Kind of like Algolith does on their website.

I don't get it, if you have release beta testers from video quality NDA, what is still under NDA, sound?

I meant actual pictures of the Radiance in action. Before processing, after processing. With/without. Not the unit itself. Kind of like Algolith does on their website.

I don't get it, if you have release beta testers from video quality NDA, what is still under NDA, sound?

Bingo :)

Here is a link to some pictures a Radiance beta customer posted which show the Lumagen proprietary "no ring" scaling in action.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11473155#post11473155

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

Here is a link to some pictures a Radiance beta customer posted which show the Lumagen proprietary "no ring" scaling in action.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11473155#post11473155

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

That's nice - a test pattern. How about some real world comparison? :cool:

I meant actual pictures of the Radiance in action. Before processing, after processing. With/without. Not the unit itself. Kind of like Algolith does on their website.

I don't get it, if you have release beta testers from video quality NDA, what is still under NDA, sound?

A reasonable request. Not sure if any of the Beta users want to post something.

I will try to get some photos of before and after. Might take me a while if I can't get to it this weekend as I have Knee surgery next week.

The NDA is lifted for Video, but we left it in place for Audio, and our Beta user forum. Audio is coming along nicely now -- although it has been a royal pain to get where we are -- so we should be releasing audio from the NDA in the next couple of weeks as well.

A reasonable request. Not sure if any of the Beta users want to post something.

I will try to get some photos of before and after. Might take me a while if I can't get to it this weekend as I have Knee surgery next week.

The NDA is lifted for Video, but we left it in place for Audio, and our Beta user forum. Audio is coming along nicely now -- although it has been a royal pain to get where we are -- so we should be releasing audio from the NDA in the next couple of weeks as well.

Darn. That probably means no XD release before the end of OCtober :(

Added some beta users early reports.

I really hope that Lumagen is working on improving the Picture of hd dvd and bluray contents.I just wish that they would concentrate on the future of viewing and less on standard dvd.I'm hoping Lumagen wins the battle of the vp's but when I hear that there is no improvement with the rs-1 and the Radiance with hd dvd and bluray I'm a little puzzled.I have tried the rs-1 with the Crystalio 2 and the Faroudja 1080 and I could clearly see an improvement in picture.My faith is with Lumagen and I believe that it could be a matter of not having all of the software in yet.

I have tried the rs-1 with the Crystalio 2 and the Faroudja 1080 and I could clearly see an improvement in picture.

What kind of improvement? How was the picture better?

What kind of improvement? How was the picture better?

Nevermind that question. Here are my thoughts, take it for what they're worth (not much).

There will be no such thing as a winner in "the battle of the vps" because there will never be a perfect vp. Sure this latest generation (CII, VP50Pro, XD) is another step forward, but all you can hope for is find one that meets your needs, and it might be any of these 3, or some other. Plus we don't really want a winner, because remember, competition is a good thing. :)

That said, I thought about your question, and I'm guessing it was prompted by VirusKiller's observation that "the Radiance has much less to do with full HD signals." I think what he meant was that a nicely mastered HD DVD or BR disk will not need a lot of the processing that the XD has to offer. That doesn't mean you can't use that processing, just that it's not really necessary. (It's a good thing wouldn't you agree?)

I would add that your request to 'concentrate on the future of viewing and less on standard DVD' doesn't make a lot of sense, to the extent that (unless I'm mistaken) all of those processing capabilities can be applied to any source. I am guessing that scaling is the only processing that differentiates SD/DVD and HD sources in the pipeline (with the exception of 720p to 1080p maybe). All other things (input/output corrections, noise reduction, BAR, deinterlacing, etc) can be applied if you so desire, regardless of the source.

I'm sure similar adjustments were in place in the vps you observed, and I'm pretty certain that should you go with the XD, you'll be able to tweak HD sources at your heart's content.

Hope this helps.

Does the Radiance have PIP?
I have security cameras and want to be able to show them in PIP for example when watching Comcast HD or Tivo.
Thanks.

Does the Radiance have PIP?
I have security cameras and want to be able to show them in PIP for example when watching Comcast HD or Tivo.
Thanks.

Excellent question - can any of the beta testers comment on this? I see that the first post in this thread mentions PIP, but the current brochure on Lumagen's site doesn't.

This post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11381235#post11381235) from Jim implies one PIP window, but that's about the only confirmation of that functionality I could find. Let me know and I'll add it to the FAQ.

The RadianceXD will have a PIP window. The PIP window could be used for displaying a security camera.

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

Any decision on a blend feature?

Athanasios

Added info about PIP functionality.

Also, corrected a typo in the same question. (It more or less stated that both the Gennum and Lumagen's chip were doing deinterlacing, whereas I meant deinterlacing for Gennum, and scaling for Lumagen).

Any decision on a blend feature?

Athanasios

I wouldn't expect a decision on this right away, Jim and Randy have repeatedly stated that they want to get basic/existing functionality working to a T before tackling more exotic features.

If it's a deal breaker for you, you'll probably have to wait till after release :(

A couple of questions:

1. I read that the Radiance's HDMI inputs are active all the time, therefore not requiring a resync when switching inputs.

I have a VP50 and when I change from TV (HDMI1) to my HTPC (HDMI2), it has to resync/HDCP handshake again, very annoying.

Will this switching happen without delay with the Radiance XD?

2. Does the Radiance XD have an Info button that shows an overlay osd menu, showing the active input, video resolution, sound format etc. (like the VP50 has)?

Thanks :)

A couple of questions:

1. I read that the Radiance's HDMI inputs are active all the time, therefore not requiring a resync when switching inputs.

I have a VP50 and when I change from TV (HDMI1) to my HTPC (HDMI2), it has to resync/HDCP handshake again, very annoying.

Will this switching happen without delay with the Radiance XD?

2. Does the Radiance XD have an Info button that shows an overlay osd menu, showing the active input, video resolution, sound format etc. (like the VP50 has)?

Thanks :)

All the HDMI inputs are active all the time and there is "no delay" when changing inputs. Time required is no longer than with the Lumagen HDP. Regarding 2, the current beta software has an OSD that shows the input, resolution in and out but no data on the sound format. Presumably the sound info could be added.

All the HDMI inputs are active all the time and there is "no delay" when changing inputs. Time required is no longer than with the Lumagen HDP. Regarding 2, the current beta software has an OSD that shows the input, resolution in and out but no data on the sound format. Presumably the sound info could be added.

Thanks for your reply!

Sounds good, I have ordered my Beta Radiance XD and should be the very first owner in Denmark, can't wait :)

PS. Can any of the current owners comment on noise reduction. How good is it (maybe compared to the Mosquito).

I would really like to get rid of some of the mosquito noise I see when watching SD sports. I see a lot of that.

Thanks
Martin

"PS. Can any of the current owners comment on noise reduction. How good is it (maybe compared to the Mosquito)."

No comments available, the noise reduction features are not implemented yet.

Shawn

Added planned feature: automatic aspect ration detection.

The present Radiance software includes Mosquito noise reduction and a very slight amount of temporal and spatial noise reduction. The noise reduction controls haven't been implemented yet.

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

The present Radiance software includes Mosquito noise reduction and a very slight amount of temporal and spatial noise reduction. The noise reduction controls haven't been implemented yet.

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

Will they be implemented before release, or is a post-release planned update?

Randy,

"The present Radiance software includes Mosquito noise reduction"

Is the present MNR using the Gennum or is it what Lumagen scaling has had in it?

Thanks,

Shawn

Lumagen has said that it intends to provide an upgrade path. However, it has also said that there is little reason for HDMI 1.3 from a video perspective at this point.

The 10-bit or 12-bit 4:2:2 YCbCr signals supported by HDMI v1.2 (and earlier) should be perfectly adequate as most display devices competently upsample chroma from 4:2:2 to 4:4:4. Most display devices' internal processing is limited to 10 bits anyway so the 16-bit capability provided by v1.3 is simply that - a capability. There won't be devices that use the 16-bit Deep Color mode (in any meaningful sense) for some time, and 10 or 12 output bits are adequate when performing video processing on 8-bit inputs without causing banding.

If you wish to pass the new HD audio bitstreams then you have a problem, but most players decode these bitstreams internally anyway.

I was thinking. Can't you just send the output of your HDMI device first into your HDMI 1.3 reciever or pre-pro if you want to use it's HDMI 1.3 capabilities and then use the HDMI output of the pre-pro to send the HDMI signal to the Radience. The Pre-pro will do the video switching of all your devices and the Radience will do the video processing. You will be limited to a single HDMI input on the Radience, but the Radience has four configuration memories for each input. I will only have 4 devices so I would set-up a memory for each device on that single input.

I was thinking. Can't you just send the output of your HDMI device first into your HDMI 1.3 receiver or pre-pro if you want to use it's HDMI 1.3 capabilities and then use the HDMI output of the pre-pro to send the HDMI signal to the Radiance. The Pre-pro will do the video switching of all your devices and the Radiance will do the video processing. You will be limited to a single HDMI input on the Radiance, but the Radiance has four configuration memories for each input. I will only have 4 devices so I would set-up a memory for each device on that single input.

This could be done and at least one owner reported doing it this way and using the resolutions to sort out the different inputs.

I am going to try sending all to the radiance then to preamp, except for the PC which will use analog directly to the preamp. One suggestion was sending all to the Radiance, then send one output (perhaps set to audio only which generates blank video) to the preamp and send the preamp output back to the Radiance. Since the Radiance will have PIP, I can imagine that you could bring up a PIP with the preamp display to adjust the settings.

Example:

Source Connections
------------------------
Tivo S3-> Radiance Input 3
ATSC Tuner - > Radiance Input 6 (Component)
Oppo DVD 980H -> Radiance Input 1
HPTC -> Display Input 2 (Direct to display)

Radiance Output
------------------------
Radiance Output 1 -> Display Input 1
Radiance Output 2 -> Onkyo Pro 885 (Someday, when it arrives)

Onkyo Pro 885 Output 1 -> Radiance Input 2

HTPC
----------------------------
HPTC Video -> Display Input 2
HTPC Audio -> Onkyo Preamp Analog Input
Future:
HTPC HDMI audio -> Onkyo Preamp HDMI

I hope that helps. It takes a bit of noodling. Once my Onkyo 885 arrives, I can try this out.

- Rich

Well, I just got my Black Faceplate and it looks fantastic.

Costs a little more than I would have liked but it was worth it for me ;)
Installation was pretty simple too.

- Rich

Well, I just got my Black Faceplate and it looks fantastic.

Costs a little more than I would have liked but it was worth it for me ;)
Installation was pretty simple too.

- Rich

Pics or it didn't happen ;)

Pics or it didn't happen ;)

Ok. But the end of the day ;)

- Rich

Here are a couple of pictures of the Lumagen with the black faceplate.
It actually looks blacker, pretty close to the HTPC below but the flash reflects more on Lumagen than the HTPC.

They look great together (see they can get along :D).

- Rich

Here are a couple of pictures of the Lumagen with the black faceplate.
It actually looks blacker, pretty close to the HTPC below but the flash reflects more on Lumagen than the HTPC.

They look great together (see they can get along :D).

- Rich

Nice Rich, thanks much. It does look sharp. Too bad that's not the standard faceplate. :(

Added link to pictures of the black faceplate.

wow it looks MUCH better. the default faceplate just looks, eerh, "alternative"

btw can any beta user tell me whether 1360x768 is a pre-set resolution in the Radiance ? (yea I know u can do your own.. but I'm never gd at researching on the timings etc.... It's for a DVI commercial plasma Pio 607)

black faceplate looks fantastic, IMO!

black faceplate looks fantastic, IMO!
I think by now and with your endorsement Ofer, we may well have persuaded Jim to go for Black as the standard faceplate colour :D.

Will they be implemented before release, or is a post-release planned update?

We have the Lumagen spacial noise reduction in the software at this point. The Gennum noise reduction and edge enhacement features will be in before production release.

A couple of questions:

1. I read that the Radiance's HDMI inputs are active all the time, therefore not requiring a resync when switching inputs. Will this switching happen without delay with the Radiance XD?

2. Does the Radiance XD have an Info button that shows an overlay osd menu, showing the active input, video resolution, sound format etc. (like the VP50 has)?


1. As answered before, yes all 6 HDMI receivers are always active. HDMI switching takes about 1 second. Other processors - including our earlier Vision series - which use a mux to reduce the number of DVI/HDMI receivers - take between 3 and 4 seconds to reauire the digital video and then reaquire the HDCP key and start decrypting.

2. We are planning on adding audio inforomation on the info screen, but this might not be until after production release.

escon,

Definitely hope you're wrong about that. I'm all for two options and that's what I told Jim (and Keydigital, for that matter, when HD LEEZA went on the market).

My opinion is that there are two types of processor owners. The folks that want no display on the front and a black faceplate usually want to hide all their equipment so that it doesn't interfere with the movie experience. Others like to show off their equipment and want it to match the rest of the equipment. I'm actually in the second camp and previous Lumagen processors didn't have the design flash element that the Radiance does...

The electronics industry keeps flipping between black annodized to silver annodized faceplates. Now, everyone's making shiny black piano finishes...

btw can any beta user tell me whether 1360x768 is a pre-set resolution in the Radiance ? (yea I know u can do your own.. but I'm never gd at researching on the timings etc.... It's for a DVI commercial plasma Pio 607)

We currently have both 1360x768 and 1366x768 in the default list.

escon,

Definitely hope you're wrong about that. I'm all for two options and that's what I told Jim (and Keydigital, for that matter, when HD LEEZA went on the market)...

I agree with Ofer.

I didn't really want to support two facia options, but now that we have both, we will continue to support both colors.

I agree with Ofer.

I didn't really want to support two facia options, but now that we have both, we will continue to support both colors.
Thanks Jim. I take it that the two colours will now be the same price - i.e. no surcharge for the black? Am about to order a Beta XD.

(...) but this might not be until after production release.

Jim, any revised estimate as to when that might be?

black faceplate looks fantastic, IMO!
Agreed. I'm going to have to spring for the "upgrade" here before too long. :) Of course, my rack is out in the open, but I do want everything to match as much as possible, and that means black. My DVHS deck and Tivo HD stand out like sore thumbs in this regard, but the rest of it is reasonably harmonious.

Yes, I too would like the option of black or silver. I understand if the cost to produce the black face plate is more....but I've got to believe at the earlier quote of $200 for the faceplate option there is some profit mixed in with that.

I would like to see an option for beta owners to return their silver faceplate for black and pay the "actual costs" minus the trade-in value of the silver face plate. I realize this sounds somewhat convoluted...but I'm trying to figure out a way that would be fair for all parties.

Ron

I concur with rboster's comment and I am on AVS's prebuy waiting list.
I was pretty annoyed about the upcharge for black.

Perhaps Lumagen could consider what DVDO is asking for
their silver option on the VP50Pro.

WHat is the AVS pre-buy waiting list?? Isn't the piece now available in Beta??

Small but major update; we have an approximate price for the HD-SDI->HDMI box!

This is for the production unit not the beta unit.

Get a can of black spray paint. Get the textured finish. Home Depot $3.25 for a can.

Do the upgrade yourself.

Get a can of black spray paint. Get the textured finish. Home Depot $3.25 for a can.

Do the upgrade yourself.

That won't work. You'll lose the Lumagen and ISF logos for one. But mostly, I doubt paint will look anything like the anodized finish.

Not a big deal for me - it's not the Lumagen I'll be looking at in the end. I just prefer the black finish BY FAR, but am certainly not ready to pay more for it. I'm probably not the only one thinking this.

Get a can of black spray paint. Get the textured finish. Home Depot $3.25 for a can.

Do the upgrade yourself.

And how do you think the value would go down when you spray paint multi thousand dollar piece of electronics? I would think you would loose many viable ppl who would be put off by your homemade remedy and/or would feel yours is devalued vs a non-spray painted Radiance unit.

Ron

Thanks Jim. I take it that the two colours will now be the same price - i.e. no surcharge for the black? Am about to order a Beta XD.

We are charging $200 for the black facia option to cover our costs of having to rework the standard two color facia.

[edit] ... yes we make a few dollars on this.

Jim

You actually are making money on this now?? <grin>

How about some more feedback from some of you beta testers :)

Yeah, wasn't the audio NDA supposed to be lifted by now?

audio nda has not been lifted, only video

D_B - I know that :).

But jrp has indicated in this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11749507#post11749507) that the audio part of the NDA would be lifted soon.

I'd like to get the XD next month when I get the JVC RS2, for the CMS, lumagen's noise reduction and hdmi switching. I know some are not yet implemented so how difficult/compicated is 'updating' new software as it becomes available?
joe

I'd like to get the XD next month when I get the JVC RS2, for the CMS, lumagen's noise reduction and hdmi switching. I know some are not yet implemented so how difficult/compicated is 'updating' new software as it becomes available?
joe

Very simple. Download the firmware. (unzip). Hookup Radiance using supplied cable. Turn the radiance on and open the firmware....which will give you a button to download. Firmware downloads and you are done. Very simple procedure.

Ron

Very simple. Download the firmware. (unzip). Hookup Radiance using supplied cable. Turn the radiance on and open the firmware....which will give you a button to download. Firmware downloads and you are done. Very simple procedure.

Ron

post deleted.

Very simple. Download the firmware. (unzip). Hookup Radiance using supplied cable. Turn the radiance on and open the firmware....which will give you a button to download. Firmware downloads and you are done. Very simple procedure.

Ron

Not only simple, but it usually takes < 5 minutes and, so far, preserves your settings :D

- Rich

The update uses a standard null-modem serial cable? And the software requires Windows, right?

The update uses a standard null-modem serial cable? And the software requires Windows, right?Yes, and yes.

But I use a Radio Shack USB-to-serial adapter, and XP running in a virtual machine under VMWare Fusion on a Mac PowerBook, and have had no problems with updates.

Not only simple, but it usually takes < 5 minutes and, so far, preserves your settings :D

- Rich

Well it looks like I can't use that excuse anymore! Thanks for your replies, guess I'll be getting that beta unit in a couple of weeks.

I will be receiving my beta unit next week.

I have just received my Pioneer Kuro 1080p Elite 60" and hooked it up to my current iScan VP50. The VP50 has produced a very nice picture with my current Panasonic PHD8 42" (1024x768).

But now, when outputting 1080p to the Kuro (from my 576i SD TV sources) it looks like the VP50 can't keep up. I see deinterlace artifacts (stripes through objects) and a lot of noise.

Some of what I'm seeing is probably attributed to going from 42" to 60".

But I really hope the RadianceXD does a better job than the VP50 with my Kuro 60".

Can't wait to receive it, and (hopefully) see the difference! :)

Randy, Jim,

I hate to be a nag, but - are we any closer to a release date?

Really looking to get my hands on one, but it does me little good without native support for 1080p 24sf. Any news as of yet?

Thanks

Really looking to get my hands on one, but it does me little good without native support for 1080p 24sf. Any news as of yet?

Thanks


Does this mean it doesn't pass native 1080p/24 from a blu ray player to a 1080p/24 display?

Does this mean it doesn't pass native 1080p/24 from a blu ray player to a 1080p/24 display?It probably doesn't. I'm not sure about the ability to do 1080p24 passthrough (although I'd be shocked if it couldn't), but I don't think it's related at all to the ability to output 1080p24sf.

I think that in its current state, the Radiance cannot genlock 1080p/24 from 1080i/60.

But can it pass-through 1080p/24 with 1080p/24 sources?

Did I state that it could? I don't see that.

As for the passthrough, I don't think this is stated in the FAQ, but I'm assuming this will be a possibility, at release or later.

It probably doesn't. I'm not sure about the ability to do 1080p24 passthrough (although I'd be shocked if it couldn't), but I don't think it's related at all to the ability to output 1080p24sf.

Do you mean it can't rescale another input from say 1080i/60, 480i/60, etc. to 1080p/24 to a 1080p/24 display?

Do you mean it can't rescale another input from say 1080i/60, 480i/60, etc. to 1080p/24 to a 1080p/24 display?No, I didn't say that. I don't know that it can output 24p from 60i.

You asked a different question about 24p passthrough, which I am guessing it can do.

I think that in its current state, the Radiance cannot genlock 1080p/24 from 1080i/60.


You've got to be kidding! Even the current HDP series can do this. how do u get the idea the Radiance cannot do it ? :confused:

I'll be SHOCKED if 60i->24p and 24p->24p are not supported out of the box !

the only thing that needs a bit more work is 24psf for output. (btw dun confuse this with 24p, they are not the same thing). And even for this I have faith. Those Qualia owners are definitely the target customers for Lumagen

You've got to be kidding! Even the current HDP series can do this. how do u get the idea the Radiance cannot do it ? :confused:

From somebody who is beta testing it. 1080p/24 will be supported, but it's not ready yet.

Does this mean it doesn't pass native 1080p/24 from a blu ray player to a 1080p/24 display?

Do you mean it can't rescale another input from say 1080i/60, 480i/60, etc. to 1080p/24 to a 1080p/24 display?

I'm under NDA and can't discuss feature implementation timescales, but if it doesn't already the Radiance will be able to do both of these absolutely critical tasks.

Anyone of you Beta testers by chance have one of the new Pioneer Kuro's?

Does the RadianceXD improve the picture quality on the Kuro?

I have a 60" 1080p Elite and people in the Kuro thread are telling me that adding a scaler wont make the picture any better, possibly making it worse than without the scaler (it's knowledgeable people like D-Nice, Ken Ross and others).

I, personally, can't believe that a premium scaler like the RadianceXD won't improve the picture at all, but it seems to be the general consensus in the Kuro thread.

If it's true, I'll end up using it as a very expensive AV switchbox.

Anyone of you Beta testers by chance have one of the new Pioneer Kuro's?

Does the RadianceXD improve the picture quality on the Kuro?

I have a 60" 1080p Elite and people in the Kuro thread are telling me that adding a scaler wont make the picture any better, possibly making it worse than without the scaler (it's knowledgeable people like D-Nice, Ken Ross and others).

I, personally, can't believe that a premium scaler like the RadianceXD won't improve the picture at all, but it seems to be the general consensus in the Kuro thread.

If it's true, I'll end up using it as a very expensive AV switchbox.

I do not have a Kuro, but I do have a 65" Panny 1080p plasma and the Radiance does a much better job of video processing on both HD and SD sources than the Panny. My Lumagen HDP did as well although the Radiance is a significant improvement.

Given the Panny vs. Pioneer plazma "discussions" about which is best, my major argument in favor of expensive VPs is just that: the expense. I do not believe that either Panny or Pioneer spend nearly as much money on their video processing hardware and software thus resulting in inferior performance relative to good VPs. I believe (subject to correction) that Fugiitsu (sp) and Runco both use 65" Panny glass for their very expensive displays. Most of the justification for the added $ is atributed to the added money spent on video processing.

A few words on RadianceXD audio:

We have an update that includes switching audio inputs from any source (HDMI, 1 of 6 COAX, 1 or 2 optical, or 1 of 4 analog stereo) inputs and can output to one or both HDMI outputs and/or the COAX outputs. Of course COAX output only supports SPDIF modes. The audio input associated with each video input is user programmable.

Audio EDID control is very flexible. It can be set up to pass-back one of the output's audio EDIDs to the sources, or the common features from both outputs audio EDID, or use the output EDID from the active HDMI output (video), or it can be user defined. Each source can be programmed independently for each memory. So, for example, if output 1 drives a TV with only 2-channel PCM, and output 2 drives an HDMI amp, which supports 8 channel PCM, whose output drives a projector, a configuration memory can be programmed so that the sources get different EDIDs for each of these cases. Of course the sources would have to re-read EDID when we toggle HOTPLUG for this features to be available for any particular system.

Note that video EDID pass-back and audio EDID pass-back are separated. For example, video EDID can be passed-back from output 1 and audio EDID from output2, if desired.

We have a few audio bugs still and will continue to uncover more as more different devices are used with the RadianceXD. HDMI audio is complex with much left open to interpretation by the various manufactures. We will continue to do audio updates, but are taking a bit of time now to add some video features.

Color gamut calibration (adjusting primary color points) should be released this week. Grayscale calibration, test-patterns, and Gennum enhancement controls are the next three features on our list and should follow quickly after.

Randy, Jim,

I hate to be a nag, but - are we any closer to a release date?

Yes we are. ;)

Since CEDIA we have been shooting for a Q4 production release. Since then we lost another four weeks to HDMI audio stuff. Still might make it, but it might be with a slightly trimmed "production feature list."

We will continue to make improvements in feature set and video quality after production release, and provide free software updates, no matter exactly what the feature list at "production release" is.

Color gamut calibration (adjusting primary color points) should be released this week. Grayscale calibration, test-patterns, and Gennum enhancement controls are the next three features on our list and should follow quickly after.
Now we are talking! ;)

I'm under NDA and can't discuss feature implementation timescales, but if it doesn't already the Radiance will be able to do both of these absolutely critical tasks.

Thanks for the information, I was hoping it does or will.

Yes we are. ;)

Since CEDIA we have been shooting for a Q4 production release. Since then we lost another four weeks to HDMI audio stuff. Still might make it, but it might be with a slightly trimmed "production feature list."

We will continue to make improvements in feature set and video quality after production release, and provide free software updates, no matter exactly what the feature list at "production release" is.
So if I read you correctly a 2008 release is likely. :eek:

I guess you can't rush quality. :( Still, I was really hoping to get my hands on one before year's end.

A few words on RadianceXD audio:

We have an update that includes switching audio inputs from any source (HDMI, 1 of 6 COAX, 1 or 2 optical, or 1 of 4 analog stereo) inputs and can output to one or both HDMI outputs and/or the COAX outputs. Of course COAX output only supports SPDIF modes. The audio input associated with each video input is user programmable.

Audio EDID control is very flexible. It can be set up to pass-back one of the output's audio EDIDs to the sources, or the common features from both outputs audio EDID, or use the output EDID from the active HDMI output (video), or it can be user defined. Each source can be programmed independently for each memory. So, for example, if output 1 drives a TV with only 2-channel PCM, and output 2 drives an HDMI amp, which supports 8 channel PCM, whose output drives a projector, a configuration memory can be programmed so that the sources get different EDIDs for each of these cases. Of course the sources would have to re-read EDID when we toggle HOTPLUG for this features to be available for any particular system.

Note that video EDID pass-back and audio EDID pass-back are separated. For example, video EDID can be passed-back from output 1 and audio EDID from output2, if desired.

We have a few audio bugs still and will continue to uncover more as more different devices are used with the RadianceXD. HDMI audio is complex with much left open to interpretation by the various manufactures. We will continue to do audio updates, but are taking a bit of time now to add some video features.

I don't want to appear as if all I do is complain: this sounds absolutely a-m-a-z-i-n-g!

(On the other hand it makes me want to complain even more that it's not here yet :D)

Another major update, after a long (9 days) dry spell. Hey, I only report that stuff, I don't make it up. :)

- release time frame update (don't get excited, it's not particularly good news)
- features currently worked on by Lumagen (as we speak!)
- 1080p24 genlock planned feature
- info on audio/video EDID functionality - pretty cool stuff

Jim

Can I send 1080p 24Hz to the RadianceXD and output 1080p 24Hz to my display, with the latest software release?

Thanks
Martin

I don't want to appear as if all I do is complain: this sounds absolutely a-m-a-z-i-n-g!

(On the other hand it makes me want to complain even more that it's not here yet :D)

Dave, if you want it now get on the Beta list! You'll get everything it could do if they released it tomorrow so no lose. ;)

I'm reasonably happy to wait for 'production' and maybe beyond now that DVDO seem to be ironing out the last issues with the VP50, as I'll at least have a stable scaler till all the new shiny features I'd like are up and running in the Radiance and I have a new amp to find and buy in the mean time. :rolleyes:

Dave G: I would add a second vote for getting on the Beta list. I have had my Radiance since August and have been very happy with it. It is quite useable as is especially since they have gotten over the audio hump.

Dave G: I would add a second vote for getting on the Beta list. I have had my Radiance since August and have been very happy with it. It is quite useable as is especially since they have gotten over the audio hump.I know... been thinking about it. Does anyone know if the AVS preorder price applies to beta units?

Dave G:

I'd add a third 'vote' for pulling the trigger now. I replaced a VP30 with the XD a month ago and have a better picture and fewer issues even though it is officially still a beta.

I know... been thinking about it. Does anyone know if the AVS preorder price applies to beta units?

yes and another vote from a prev. VP50 owner who is now a beta radiance owner and very happy. The no ringing alone is worth it...some basic noise reduction (only to improve) are two factors I really appreciate.

yes and another vote from a prev. VP50 owner who is now a beta radiance owner and very happy. The no ringing alone is worth it...some basic noise reduction (only to improve) are two factors I really appreciate.

Just faxed the NDA :D

Lumagen says unit will probably ship end of next week.

Welcome aboard Dave!

I don't think you'll regret it. :)

Welcome aboard Dave!

Thanks. I should be able to contribute to the community of users (besides the FAQ that is).

I currently have an HD1 that's been sleeping in a box, as the theater has yet to be built (hoping to get around that before year's end.) On the other hand, my living room setup is currently a mess (XA2, PS3, cable box, SageTV media extender, receiver) and the plasma picture could definitely use some improvement, so I should be able to use/test the XD in two very different environments.

I don't think you'll regret it. :)

I know I won't. Just knowing that soon, I'll have ONE cable running from the A/V cabinet to the tv makes me want to do a little dance... And that's even before considering all the other functionality!

Jim

Can I send 1080p 24Hz to the RadianceXD and output 1080p 24Hz to my display, with the latest software release?

Thanks
Martin

Anyone know if I can/how to do this?


PS. Gordon - Can I get a login to the RadianceXD Beta forum on your homepage (I'm a proud owner as of yesterday)?

Maybe you can PM the details.

Thanks
Martin

Gordon - Can I get a login to the RadianceXD Beta forum on your homepage (I'm a proud owner as of yesterday)?

Maybe you can PM the details.

Thanks
Martin

I didn't realize Gordon was the moderator for that forum - I just PM'd Jim asking for the same thing, hoping to get access before I get the actual unit. If it's up to you Gordon, I have the same request as Martin... Thanks!

Can I send 1080p 24Hz to the RadianceXD and output 1080p 24Hz to my display, with the latest software release?


Sorry, no.

We realize 24p, 24sF, and 48p output is important. However, we have prioritized other features higher (e.g. color gamut, grayscale, test patterns, etc.). I personally find these calibration features are lot more important to the viewing experience than 24p or 48p. Only my opinion of course.

Slow pans definitely look better at 24p/48p. So, this is something we will get to as soon as we can.

Any better idea on blending? If it is something that could be implemented with a future firmware update, that would be great - I could jump on pre-order or beta list. Otoh, if it turns out that a separate model is required for blending, a possibility mentioned in the FAQ, then I'd have to wait for that model - wouldn't want to take the upgrade hit on such a new (and pricey) product. BT,DT with my DVDOs.

Sorry, no.

We realize 24p, 24sF, and 48p output is important. However, we have prioritized other features higher (e.g. color gamut, grayscale, test patterns, etc.). I personally find these calibration features are lot more important to the viewing experience than 24p or 48p. Only my opinion of course.

Slow pans definitely look better at 24p/48p. So, this is something we will get to as soon as we can.

how soon is "as soon as we can"? this is a bit of a show-stopper if it won't passthrough 24 straight out of the box...

Good to hear Dave,I have been a quiet, happy, patient owner for 3 weeks.I want to report that I took the Radiance out of the chain to do some direct a b's and on Bluray and my picture lost all of its magic.Sign of a good thing

I have my tracking number from Lumagen...I'll be installing mine Tuesday night in anticipation of my CIH set up getting up and running...

Any better idea on blending? If it is something that could be implemented with a future firmware update, that would be great ...

At this point we are thinking this will be a feature for the RadiancePro.

There is some chance we might add it to the RadianceXD, but at this point there are no plans to do so.

At this point we are thinking this will be a feature for the RadiancePro.

There is some chance we might add it to the RadianceXD, but at this point there are no plans to do so.

Please please please!!! Add blending soon! I know I sound like a geek :D

I Have been tossing around the Idea of getting the TVone C2-2250(two of them for blending) solution but would rather stay with a company I am more familiar with , trust ,and know their products.

If you do add it first to the Radiance PRo how long before you begin working on the pro? I still would like to see it with both models or even possible add blending softwere to existing older lumagen models , this way we could go the same route as the TV-one C2-2250 by getting two units or just adding a second Unit since i already have a HDQ as do many others. And HDMI isnt really that important to me,DVI is fine, and many CRT users still would like to output RGBHV, does the radiance do this also?

Athanasios

how soon is "as soon as we can"? this is a bit of a show-stopper if it won't passthrough 24 straight out of the box...

I am gun-shy on predicting because I can't predict how many issues we will run into as we add other features. HDMI audio is a prime example.

Having said that, I believe we can have 24p in to 24p/24sF/48p out in December.

Having said that, I believe we can have 24p in to 24p/24sF/48p out in December.

Is it just the 24p in that is not implemented, or is it the 24/48 out that is not implemented yet? I.E. can it correctly deinterlace 1080i60 and output 1080p24(or48) minus the judder?

I am in the process of signing up for the beta, and I don't mind it not doing this right now... as long as it can do this nicely prior to the official release.

"Is it just the 24p in that is not implemented, or is it the 24/48 out that is not implemented yet?"

1080p24 IN works fine. 1080p24/48 OUTPUT is not there yet.

Shawn

To confirm:

Shawn is correct. We only have 50 and 59.94 Hertz output rate in the software at this time.

To confirm:

Shawn is correct. We only have 50 and 59.94 Hertz output rate in the software at this time.

Thanks for the confirmation. Can you confirm that the 23.xxx Hz out (or some multiple thereof) will be part of the official release, or is that something that might get put into the pro instead. I just wanna make sure I am buying the right product... one of the reasons I started looking at processors was to get proper deinterlacing minus the judder.

I don't mind waiting a bit for the feature, and helping w/ testing it out etc, but I don't want to plunk down the cash for the beta if it is going to be one of those features left for the higher end version.

thanks,
aaron

The Color Gamut release was just posted.

This release includes:

- Color-gamut
- Front panel LED control
- Trigger output control
- Fixes a bug in latest releases for stutter with Toshiba HD-DVD player.
- Some other minor bug fixes

We should a have an update with grayscale next week.

I just wanna make sure I am buying the right product...I don't mind waiting a bit for the feature, and helping w/ testing it out etc, but I don't want to plunk down the cash for the beta if it is going to be one of those features left for the higher end version.

I feel the same way about the blending feature.

thanks
Athanasios

Thanks for the confirmation. Can you confirm that the 23.xxx Hz out (or some multiple thereof) will be part of the official release ...

Yes, 23.98 (BTW: This is 24/1.001), 24sF, and 48 Hertz output will be supported in the RadianceXD.

We are striving to release the first update with these in December. The first release will be for 24p in to 24/24sF/48 out. 480i/576i/1080i in to 24/24sF/48 out may be later since it is more work.

What's the "front panel LED control"? (I'm guessing the ability to dim it or turn it off even if the unit's on... ?)

I've been a very quiet beta tester. But, GRAY SCALE CALIBRATION, TEST PATTERNS, AND THE GENUM ENHANCEMENT FEATURES COMING SOON- YEA. Thank you.

For those that want to see where the Primary Gamut control is in the 101107 software check out:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11959947#post11959947

Shawn

What's the "front panel LED control"? (I'm guessing the ability to dim it or turn it off even if the unit's on... ?)

Not much to it. It allows you to select if you want the LED illuminated while power is on or not.

We also added the "blink on receiving a command" function to provide feedback to the user.

What is the Toshiba bug that is fixed?

Nashou66. You are a geek! :) Almost everybody here is except maybe THE BLAND. He is a nerd. :)

Nashou66. You are a geek! :) Almost everybody here is except maybe THE BLAND. He is a nerd. :)

Actually I'm a greek :) next time youup here in westrn Ny I'll treat ya to some souvlaki at my diner.

Athanasios

At this point we are thinking this will be a feature for the RadiancePro.

There is some chance we might add it to the RadianceXD, but at this point there are no plans to do so.

Thanks - then for sure I'd want to be on the Pro bandwagon...I just scored a pair of nice 9"rs, and am pretty much slack-jawed at the cost of current blending options. - I already have the 2.35 screen and the pjs - I just can't make myself pay twice the price of a Radiance just to have a blending box.

Keep thinking seriously on it. Please. :D

- update status on the blending feature
- update status on 1080p24 genlock

Sorry for the brief update, as there is actually a bit more going on, mainly with actual CMS features being introduced. I'll catch up tomorrow.

What is the Toshiba bug that is fixed?

Pretty much just what Jim said - stutters.

With two HDMI outputs are both active at the same time or is it switchable via remote if not?

Thanks

EDIT: I re-read the specs and see... so looks like both outputs can be active at the same time.

Can you direct different inputs on each of the outputs?
No. The way it works is that you choose one input, and direct it to one, or both outputs. However you can replace the video signal in the second output with a blank 720p signal if you are using that output for audio to a receiver or preamp.

Good morning Gordon,
Please, can I get a login to the RadianceXD Beta forum on your homepage (I'm a proud owner as of today)?

Maybe you can PM the details.
Best regards, Lenny

Lenny,

you need to email support@lumagen.com, and *they* will forward the request to Gordon. As more and more people are joining the beta bandwagon, this is becoming a common request so I'll add this to the FAQ.

Edit: that was assuming you bought it through AVS. Otherwise go through your dealer/distributor, who will email Gordon (I am trying to confirm his email address). Also, you need to register on the forums (http://www.convergent-av.co.uk/forum/) first, and don't forget to have your dealer indicate your username so the forum admin can unlock the beta access for you.

Well I am in the process of switching over to the beta from the pre-buy.

jrp,

Can you indicate what time frame you expect the color primary controls to output 10bit? It is my understanding based on Shawn's report out that it is currently limited to 8 bit RGB.

Mike

What is the Toshiba bug that is fixed?

We were seeing some stuttering on the video from the Toshiba. It is fixed by the 101107 release.

[EDIT] didn't see Dave answered this already ... So, I'll just confirm his answer.

Well I am in the process of switching over to the beta from the pre-buy.

jrp,

Can you indicate what time frame you expect the color primary controls to output 10bit? It is my understanding based on Shawn's report out that it is currently limited to 8 bit RGB.

Mike

I just moved it up on the priority list. The next three features are now:

Grayscale (should be this week)
Test patterns (should be next week)
4:2:2 output with selectable dither (2 weeks out)

I just moved it up on the priority list. The next three features are now:

Grayscale (should be this week)
Test patterns (should be next week)
4:2:2 output with selectable dither (2 weeks out)

Jim: Will the grayscale be the 11 pt. (I assume the 21 pt will be after production model is out)?

As promised a big(ger) update tonight.

- what's next on for the software
- how to get access to the beta user forum (don't get your hopes up - only for actual beta users :))
- link to CMS before/after shots
- info on the game modes

Also did a bit of cleaning up and formatting.

Enjoy!

4:2:2 output with selectable dither (2 weeks out)Could someone expand on what exactly this means, and why it is (might be?) important to some?

Thanks -

Could someone expand on what exactly this means, and why it is (might be?) important to some?

Thanks -

This is the YCbCr video format (color space). You can google or wikipedia it for a detailed explanation. The reason it is important is that it can be sent as 10 or 12 bits via hdmi. My RS-1 will accept a 10 bit signal. Source material is 8bits. What this really means is that there should be sufficient margin to counter any potential color banding issues generated when I correct the color primaries on the RS-1 using the Radiance. Currently the Radiance is outputting an 8bit RGB signal.

Mike

When the Radiance gets the 1080p24sf support, can I send 1080p24 (from Blu-Ray / HD-DVD) and 480i (NTSC SD DVD) to the Radiance and then output 1080p24sf to my screen?

I just moved it up on the priority list. The next three features are now:

Grayscale (should be this week)
Test patterns (should be next week)
4:2:2 output with selectable dither (2 weeks out)

You probably can't answer this Jim but;

Will the Grayscale update be out before Thursday?

My ISF guy is coming Thursday night to calibrate my Kuro 60" and RadianceXD. Would be nice if the Grayscale update just made it in :)

He will of course visit me again when the RadianceXD software is finalized and adjust my setup.

Thanks
Martin

Ripclawsa: That is the intention, yes. It is a feature of the current vision series and is intended to make it to Radiance. Also, be aware that 1080P24spf is only useful for that 480i material which was originally derived from film (I'm sure you know that already but just in case someone who doesn't is reading this)

Ripclawsa: That is the intention, yes. It is a feature of the current vision series and is intended to make it to Radiance. Also, be aware that 1080P24spf is only useful for that 480i material which was originally derived from film (I'm sure you know that already but just in case someone who doesn't is reading this)

Given that I am on that steep learning curve can you please explain why that is...much apprecaited.

Given that I am on that steep learning curve can you please explain why that is...much apprecaited.

I think what Gordon meant is that 1080p24spf (or 1080p24 for that matter) is only useful for film material in general, e.g., native 24Hz material. Then whether it's encoded in 480i/60 or 1080p24 form doesn't matter as the Radiance will be able to genlock to 1080p24 or 1080p24spf from either of these sources. But if your source is video material (say cable, or DVD extras), then 24Hz output doesn't help you much. Actually it tends to make things worse - I think you'll get stutters and such.

Hmmm, hope that answered your question.

Dave answered it. Video records at 60 Hz ie 60 samples of moments in time every second. If you play that back at 24Hz moments in time then you are going to get a crappy juddery mess.

Gordon

Thanks...that is what I thought, just cinfused by the 480i comment...

In answer to a couple previous posts: We are working on releasing the 11 point Grayscale at the end of this week. The 21 point Grayscale will be released later.

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

Jim: Will the grayscale be the 11 pt. (I assume the 21 pt will be after production model is out)?

Initially it will be 11-point parametric (same as the Vision series).

After we release production, we will add the 21-point parametric as an update.

When the Radiance gets the 1080p24sf support, can I send 1080p24 (from Blu-Ray / HD-DVD) and 480i (NTSC SD DVD) to the Radiance and then output 1080p24sf to my screen?

Yes, this will work.

You probably can't answer this Jim but;

Will the Grayscale update be out before Thursday?

My ISF guy is coming Thursday night to calibrate my Kuro 60" and RadianceXD. Would be nice if the Grayscale update just made it in :)


We actually had several RadianceXD Beta users planning ISF calibrations for late this week and were trying hard to get grayscale in by Thursday.

There is a small chance, but Pat added the extra range into the color gamut, and fixed a couple more HDMI audio issues. That release will be out tomorrow (Wednesday) and should help with the calibration. This extra work delayed him so he now thinks the grayscale release will be late Friday.

I will ask him if he can manage to get it done by our end of day Thursday (5:30 PM PDT). No promises of course, and he may even laugh at me :)

Initially it will be 11-point parametric (same as the Vision series).

After we release production, we will add the 21-point parametric as an update.

I have some shading issues with my RS1. Specifically, the upper left part of the image has a slight reddish color at mid IRE. Can this be improved with the Radiance?

Initially it will be 11-point parametric (same as the Vision series).

After we release production, we will add the 21-point parametric as an update.

11 -> eventually 21 point parametric? Wow - sorry, but I'm impressed. Another company should have kept me so happy that I never came over here ;) - that degree of control would be great. Sounds like if I wait long enough, you really will build my dream processor.

Ripclawsa: That is the intention, yes. It is a feature of the current vision series and is intended to make it to Radiance. Also, be aware that 1080P24spf is only useful for that 480i material which was originally derived from film (I'm sure you know that already but just in case someone who doesn't is reading this)

Yes, this will work.

Thank you, Gordon and Jim. :)

We actually had several RadianceXD Beta users planning ISF calibrations for late this week and were trying hard to get grayscale in by Thursday.

There is a small chance, but Pat added the extra range into the color gamut, and fixed a couple more HDMI audio issues. That release will be out tomorrow (Wednesday) and should help with the calibration. This extra work delayed him so he now thinks the grayscale release will be late Friday.

I will ask him if he can manage to get it done by our end of day Thursday (5:30 PM PDT). No promises of course, and he may even laugh at me :)

Thanks for the reply Jim, I really appreciate Your level of responsiveness.

When I get my setup ISF calibrated Thursday night, will future software updates "mess" with the ISF calibration or can I safely continue to update in the coming months?

I hope you get the update out in time for my calibration, give Pat a pat on the back for me :)

Regards
Martin

My XD has shipped and delivery is scheduled for the 29th.

I'm excited and just had to share. :p

My XD has shipped and delivery is scheduled for the 29th.

I'm excited and just had to share. :p

Great!

One of the most well informed, has now become an owner :p

- Rich

Great!

One of the most well informed, has now become an owner :p

- Rich

I'm humbled that you would think so. :o

The way I look at it, it feels like the more I learn, the more there is to learn. In other words, the more you know, the less you feel you know. :)

I have some shading issues with my RS1. Specifically, the upper left part of the image has a slight reddish color at mid IRE. Can this be improved with the Radiance?

Not at this time as our calibration features apply to the entire screen.

The Gennum chip has a region based grayscale function. It would allow correcting the grayscale (aka whie balance, color of gray) for each region. We have this on our list of features to work on after production.

We do not plan on region based color/hue/black/contrast/etc.. So, if improving the white balance is what's needed, you will be able to mitigate this issue after we add the region based grayscale.

The reason I use the word "mitigate" is the area of each region may not match the area of the problem exactly. Still it should help quite a bit.

...Sounds like if I wait long enough, you really will build my dream processor.

Well ... I have to admit that I'm really building my dream processor and hoping that it matches well with what other want. ;) I have to say we get great feedback from our users, which helps us toward this goal.

The RadianceXD is the foundation for our future video products. We plan to enhance it continually for a number of years, and provide free software enhancements to all Radiance product line owners.

Jim,

"The Gennum chip has a region based grayscale function. It would allow correcting the grayscale (aka whie balance, color of gray) for each region. We have this on our list of features to work on after production."

Is the Gennum correction based on region and IRE? I do not think shading errors are always constant at all levels.

Lastly... is this a definite? Last time I asked about this it was under consideration. If you are going to be adding this down the line... THANK YOU... THANK YOU.... THANK YOU!!!!

Thanks for the reply Jim, I really appreciate Your level of responsiveness.

When I get my setup ISF calibrated Thursday night, will future software updates "mess" with the ISF calibration or can I safely continue to update in the coming months?

I hope you get the update out in time for my calibration, give Pat a pat on the back for me :)

Regards
Martin

We are doing our best to never mess with your current setup when you update the software. We do not forsee any situation that will force an unexpected change in you settings. If one came up we would warn you, but again we do not expect this to occur.

Jim,

"The Gennum chip has a region based grayscale function. It would allow correcting the grayscale (aka whie balance, color of gray) for each region. We have this on our list of features to work on after production."

Is the Gennum correction based on region and IRE? I do not think shading errors are always constant at all levels.

Lastly... is this a definite? Last time I asked about this it was under consideration. If you are going to be adding this down the line... THANK YOU... THANK YOU.... THANK YOU!!!!

The Gennum is at a single level, and so you are correct it might not be a perfect fix. When implemented you would have the region based fix at one level as an offset for our 11-point (or by then 21-point) parametric grayscale (a whole-screen calibration).

We are hearing from more people now that they need some form of region based correction to fix problems in various display/projector technologies. So, I think we have to have this on the to do list. Still, it will be some time after production release.

I am so glad I bought a Radiance......

Thanks,

Shawn

Thank you Dave. I'll ask my dealer to mail lumagen with all my details. Regards, Lenny

I can't remember; what is the timeframe for a software update with noise reduction implementation to the RadianceXD?

This is The feature (NR) I'm most excited about, I really need it on my SD sports sources :)

Regards
Martin

This is the YCbCr video format (color space). You can google or wikipedia it for a detailed explanation. The reason it is important is that it can be sent as 10 or 12 bits via hdmi. My RS-1 will accept a 10 bit signal. Source material is 8bits. What this really means is that there should be sufficient margin to counter any potential color banding issues generated when I correct the color primaries on the RS-1 using the Radiance. Currently the Radiance is outputting an 8bit RGB signal.
Mike
I thought HDMI <= 1.2 is limited to 8 bit. ??

Extracted from this article (http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/2006/07/hdmi_part_2_-_i.php):

HDMI 1.0 can carry up to 8 bits/component in RGB 4:4:4 and YCbCr 4:4:4 but can actually carry up to 12-bits/component in YCbCr 4:2:2 so even in 1.0, there was some support for greater color depth, but at the expense of horizontal chroma bandwidth/resolution.

IIRC, the loss of horizontal chroma has been discussed previously and Jim thought it wasn't a big deal. I'd have to dig that up to be sure though.

In any case, it sounds like the RS1 should accept 12 bits in 4:2:2, not just 10... right?

"In any case, it sounds like the RS1 should accept 12 bits in 4:2:2, not just 10... right?"

Nope. Just because HDMI can carry it doesn't mean the projector can accept it and keep it in 12bit resolution. For example the Gennum is a 10 bit processor it can't keep a signal 12bit through it.

At best with the RS-1 I think we are looking at 10bit 4:2:2.

Shawn

"In any case, it sounds like the RS1 should accept 12 bits in 4:2:2, not just 10... right?"

Nope. Just because HDMI can carry it doesn't mean the projector can accept it and keep it in 12bit resolution. For example the Gennum is a 10 bit processor it can't keep a signal 12bit through it.

At best with the RS-1 I think we are looking at 10bit 4:2:2.

Shawn

Ah, the old 'capable' vs 'implemented' - thanks for the info Shawn.

IIRC, the loss of horizontal chroma has been discussed previously and Jim thought it wasn't a big deal.I'm in agreement with Jim on this one, with the possible exception of PC signals. First of all, virtually all digital video sources have horizontally subsampled chroma to start with - i.e., they are 4:2:0 or 4:2:2. In addition, the human visual system has less resolution sensitivity to chroma than luma (particularly with blue), making lower chroma resolution less perceptible than a lower resolution luma signal.

The only real exception I can think of might be computer-originated signals, as those are generated in RGB (4:4:4). Any digital video media played back through a computer, though, will likely have subsampled chroma due to limitations in the source.

- Dale Adams

@Dale, is there anything interesting to report about your job situation? Maybe some fancy new stuff you're developing for us home cinema freaks? :)

(Sorry for being OT).

I can't remember; what is the timeframe for a software update with noise reduction implementation to the RadianceXD?

This is The feature (NR) I'm most excited about, I really need it on my SD sports sources :)

Regards
Martin

I believe we will have the Gennum noise rediuction and edge enhancement in the software in the next two weeks.

On 4:2:2 at 12-bit, I think Dale and I are in full agreement. The only place where it could matter is for a 4:4:4 PC generated source. As he mentions this does not apply to consumer video sources played on a computer, only graphics generated on the computer.

As I think he alludes to, this is a "possible" exception. If you are sitting a normal viewing distance from say a 1920x1080p display, it is questionable whether you could detect the difference between 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 for video or 3D graphics rendering. You might notice it if you are reading spread-sheets with non-anti-aliased text fonts sitting at a close distance to the screen. But you could always use 4:4:4 8-bit in that case, which would be plenty for spread sheets. In fact the PC I have, and the ones I have seen are only 8-bit per-color RGB in any case.

We just posted the Radiance software release with grayscale calibration.

We are releasing the NDA on the RadianceXD as of today. As part of this change, future purchases do not require and NDA be signed. The units remain in a Beta software state (hardware is production level).

The Radiance Beta forum remains Lumagen confidential. Also, please continue to post your bug reports on the Beta forum, or email them to us directly.

While we still have features to add, and expect to continue to have bugs to fix, we feel the Radiance is already performing very well and, with the addition of color-gamut and gray-scale calibration, has the capabilities essential to an exceptional home theater experience.

So, Beta users are free to post their experiences for both video and audio, and other interested parties can post questions for the Beta users as to their experience with the RadianceXD.

Beta users, when you do post, please make sure you have loaded the latest software to confirm your observations with the current release, and also please post the software revision date you used for your observations. I suggest the form "Beta release Oct 21, 2007."

Jim: In the RS1 thread someone mentioned that you were open to producing a simpler box that would handle CMS and perhaps a few other items. Have you had any further thoughts on that and if so give us an update including when a go/no go decision might be made and any conclusions you have reached regarding what features to include? If nothing further has been determined do you know when you make a decision on that project?

Thanks
Phil

Phil:

I think a calibration-only box makes sense. I haven't decided whether we will do such a product yet.

Check in again in January. I might be making a decision in that timeframe.

jrp,

Will there be additional range added to the color gamut control?

Mike

Will there be additional range added to the color gamut control?

Mike

We have been discussing this, but have not made a decision.

Stay tuned...

If there is a HDMI 1.3 update, can it be done at home or has the scaler be sent to Lumagen? What about the Gennum chip upgrade?

I'm pretty confident that your dealer should be able to carry out any necessary upgrades without recourse to sending the unit to Portland

I'm pretty confident that your dealer should be able to carry out any necessary upgrades without recourse to sending the unit to Portland

Is it an official that such an upgrade is coming?

- Rich

All I know is that Jim has said on this forum that at some point there will be a 1.3 update available.

He has said nothing about updating the gennum board other than the Radiance is modular to allow replacing that processing engine should higher bit accurate device become available in the future that offer superior performance.

I think this subject may have been broached before, but it's hard to keep track: has any consideration been given to a digital-only version of the Radiance, i.e. one with *only* HDMI inputs and no analog at all?

I'm a Radiance beta user and am thrilled with it. The fact that it has "only" six HDMI inputs is my main problem since I have many more than six HDMI sources and basically no need any longer for handling of analog sources.

So I'll still be using one or more HDMI switchers in front of the Radiance, and it would be great not to have to do that.

Ron:

How many HDMI inputs do you have?!?

And here we thought 6 HDMI inputs were plenty ;)

No plans at this time for more than 6 HDMI inputs. We would have to eliminate PiP to go much beyond 6 inputs with the design we have now. Also, I do think 6 HDMI inputs covers probably 99.9% of the population, so I'm not sure it has a good ROI for us to do such a beast.

Small update to reflect the fact that the NDA's been lifted entirely. We're still waiting for more complete reports.

I'm getting my unit next week, so I'll try to whip up a review then.

Small but major update; we have an approximate price for the HD-SDI->HDMI box!
Sounds a wee bit expensive at $800 - you can buy a single channel unit (SDI/HD-SDI to HDMI) for MRSP $499.

don't worry Jim, 6 is plenty IMHO

Ron please list your gear :p

-Gary

With the latest firmware, I've notice Judder/jerky motion on my OPPO 980 player (similar to the bug w/the Toshiba HD-now fixed).

Ron

What fix did Lumagen add to the Radiance to fix the Toshiba HD XA2 bug?? What exactly was the bug and how exactly did the y address it??

I am wondering whether to update to the latest 2.5 software.

What fix did Lumagen add to the Radiance to fix the Toshiba HD XA2 bug?? What exactly was the bug and how exactly did the y address it??

I am wondering whether to update to the latest 2.5 software.Go read the beta forum. :cool:

Edit: you asked that question in the FAQ thread already. And it was answered there. What gives? :confused:

Small update. As Phil above points out, an HD-SDI to HDMI box already exists, and sells for less quite a bit less than what Lumagen is planning to sell their own. I'm not sure what edge the Lumagen box would have over that one.

Oh, and I'm getting my own unit tomorrow, so watch out for a 'first impressions' post! With - get this - actual pictures! :D

Doh! You're right...Is there anything I need to select in the Lumagen to effect this cure or is it just fixed altogether with nothing in the menu to modify?

Thanks!!

Doh! You're right...Is there anything I need to select in the Lumagen to effect this cure or is it just fixed altogether with nothing in the menu to modify?

Thanks!!
so Jeff, you got the Radiance??

Yep! What's goíng on? Did you leave me a messahe about a qualia?

Yep! What's goíng on? Did you leave me a messahe about a qualia?
Jeff, didn't you get the 1080p mod to the 004? If so, how are you running the Radiance to it? Only the DVI input accepts the 1080p signal - that's what my current HD Pro is attached to, and it's a perfect marriage.

Mike,

I didn't get the upgrade...I knew I'd have a Radiance and be able to feed it 1080P24sF.

Moreover, the 2 HDMI outs are nice. 1 to my PJ and one to my surround processor.

I did just add an ISCO III anamorphic and a new 14' wide screen. So alot is happening.

How many HDMI inputs do you have?!?

And here we thought 6 HDMI inputs were plenty.It depends how I count. If I include all the devices that I own and still occasionally use on my main display, and if I count only sources (not switchers and splitters and converters and suchlike), there are 16 digital sources, 12 HDMI and 4 DVI.

If I pare the list down to include only those devices that I still care about and will likely continue using for a while, it drops to 11 or 12.

No plans at this time for more than 6 HDMI inputs. We would have to eliminate PiP to go much beyond 6 inputs with the design we have now. Also, I do think 6 HDMI inputs covers probably 99.9% of the population, so I'm not sure it has a good ROI for us to do such a beast.I suppose not. I didn't realize that adding HDMI inputs (while simultaneously dropping analog) had implications for the architecture regarding PiP (etc.)--though I will say that PiP is a feature that I would gladly sacrifice in order to get more digital inputs on the processor.

It depends how I count. If I include all the devices that I own and still occasionally use on my main display, and if I count only sources (not switchers and splitters and converters and suchlike), there are 16 digital sources, 12 HDMI and 4 DVI

What are you using for sources? I am having a hard enough time trying to figure out what devices I could use to chew up 6 HDMI inputs... much less twice that number ;-)

Mike,

I didn't get the upgrade...I knew I'd have a Radiance and be able to feed it 1080P24sF.

Moreover, the 2 HDMI outs are nice. 1 to my PJ and one to my surround processor.

I did just add an ISCO III anamorphic and a new 14' wide screen. So alot is happening. Cool. Is the new screen curved? If not, it should be. :D

I don't take this off track by injecting non-relevant non-operational posts to this thread but I feel compelled to openly criticize Lumagens pricing strategy for Canadian customers. It's quite obvious they really don't wish to sell products in this country. A 33% premium over our US counterparts is a slap in the face and quite honestly you should be embarrassed, you can justify it anyway you want internally but in the end it's the customers in this region who have to make the final justification and with the stength of our dollar this becomes very difficult. Perhaps the relatively small Canadian market does not warrant any extra thought on the matter but I've decided I will not support a company with such antiquated and IMO unjustified pricing policies.

I don't take this off track by injecting non-relevant non-operational posts to this thread but I feel compelled to openly criticize Lumagens pricing strategy for Canadian customers. It's quite obvious they really don't wish to sell products in this country. A 33% premium over our US counterparts is a slap in the face and quite honestly you should be embarrassed, you can justify it anyway you want internally but in the end it's the customers in this region who have to make the final justification and with the stength of our dollar this becomes very difficult. Perhaps the relatively small Canadian market does not warrant any extra thought on the matter but I've decided I will not support a company with such antiquated and IMO unjustified pricing policies.

I think thay you are off base..why not purchase directly from Lumagen as I have done twice now...in fact, to the best of my knowledge I was the first Canadain RadianceXD owner....

I think thay you are off base..why not purchase directly from Lumagen as I have done twice now...in fact, to the best of my knowledge I was the first Canadain RadianceXD owner....

Or from AVS - do they ship to Canada?

Or from AVS - do they ship to Canada?

Yes, to the best of my knowledge, they do...that said, because Lumagebn products are manufactured in the US shipping is not an issue as they enter the country duty free under NAFTA (that is, with a little paperwork required)...

I think thay you are off base..why not purchase directly from Lumagen as I have done twice now...in fact, to the best of my knowledge I was the first Canadain RadianceXD owner....


I don't think I'm at all off base. I contacted Lumagen, Jim Peterson contacted me and without an option of purchasing direct from lumagen he put me in touch with the Canadian distributor. I'm certain Jim is well aware of the pricing disparity and after receiving a quote I advised I would not be purchasing due to the unacceptable pricing and that was that was that.

How many hoops does a potential customer have to jump through to buy a product from them? There must be a secret hand-shake I'm unaware of.

What are you using for sources? I am having a hard enough time trying to figure out what devices I could use to chew up 6 HDMI inputs... much less twice that number ;-)I guess it's possible, but not for most people. I have dedicated DVD, HD DVD and Blu-Ray players and HD satellite. I suppose that some form of media player and a DVD-R could bring it up to six without getting too silly.

What are you using for sources?Here's the list:


TiVo Series 3 (OTA and cable)
2 x HR10-250 DirecTV HD TiVos (OTA and DirecTV)
Dvico TViX M-4100SH media player
Comcast Motorola DCT3416 DVR (cable)
JVC HM-DH5U D-VHS VCR
Sony Playstation 3 (Blu-Ray player)
Toshiba HD-XA1 (HD-DVD player)
Dish Network ViP722 DVR (Dish Network and OTA)
Dish Network ViP211 receiver (Nextcom-modified, used for recording)
Oppo 970HD (DVD player w/480i HDMI output)
Motorola satellite receiver (other HD sources)
Helios X3000 media player
Desktop video output of HTPC
Digital output of MDP-120 MyHD card installed in HTPC
LG LST-3410A DVR (OTA, clear-QAM cable)


I concede that it's a little crazy, but as I said, not all sources are of equal importance--some I rarely use and will probably retire soon--and there's some duplication, plus I have plans to simplify further in the near future (probably dropping DirecTV, for example).

But however you cut it, I have well over six digital sources that I'd like to have processed by the Radiance.

I've reached this state because it was once my obsessive goal, round about 1999, to capture every high-definition signal hitting my house, whether terrestrially or from space. I came close to achieving that, though it was at a time when HD offerings were much less plentiful than they are today. And along the way I made a lot of HD recordings.

I no longer care as much, but it's one reason why (for example) I have both US DBS providers (because their HD offerings did not overlap as much in the old days).

And that was with all-analog gear and a CRT projector. How things have changed in only a year and a half (I didn't even own a digital projector until the spring of 2006).

On a slightly different note ... I wonder what is the timing for the SDI-to-HDMI box? Presumably I can use the Algolith version, at least for now?

On a slightly different note ... I wonder what is the timing for the SDI-to-HDMI box? Presumably I can use the Algolith version, at least for now?

No known scheduled yet. Read the FAQ :)

Here's the list:


TiVo Series 3 (OTA and cable)
2 x HR10-250 DirecTV HD TiVos (OTA and DirecTV)
Dvico TViX M-4100SH media player
Comcast Motorola DCT3416 DVR (cable)
JVC HM-DH5U D-VHS VCR
Sony Playstation 3 (Blu-Ray player)
Toshiba HD-XA1 (HD-DVD player)
Dish Network ViP722 DVR (Dish Network and OTA)
Dish Network ViP211 receiver (Nextcom-modified, used for recording)
Oppo 970HD (DVD player w/480i HDMI output)
Motorola satellite receiver (other HD sources)
Helios X3000 media player
Desktop video output of HTPC
Digital output of MDP-120 MyHD card installed in HTPC
LG LST-3410A DVR (OTA, clear-QAM cable)


I concede that it's a little crazy...

Wow. You are now officially my hero. I'd pick up a handful of those new Oppo 3x1 HDMI switches at $99 a pop and call it a day.

Wow. You are now officially my hero. I'd pick up a handful of those new Oppo 3x1 HDMI switches at $99 a pop and call it a day.

Aaron's right - especially since you have 4 configuration memories per input. That's assuming none of the connected sources would use more than one (Well one of them could use two), but I think it's a workable solution.

I guess one thing you'd lose is the constant hdmi connection/handshake. But this seems far more realistic a solution than to expect a VP with more than 6 inputs... IMHO anyway.

Wow. You are now officially my hero. I'd pick up a handful of those new Oppo 3x1 HDMI switches at $99 a pop and call it a day.Oh, I have switchers, lots of them. (The Monoprice 5x1, costing around $50, is probably the best value of all.)

But it would be just so much simpler and more elegant if everything could be connected directly to the Radiance, as the single hub, with no intermediate switchers complicating things. Ideally every Radiance input should be calibrated for the source connected to it, and if a Radiance input is shared by a lot of different sources, things get harder.

I'll probably end up doing something like deciding on the five most "important" sources, connnecting them directly, and fronting the sixth input with one or more switchers (daisy-chained if necessary) to which all the other sources are connected.

I don't think I'm at all off base. I contacted Lumagen, Jim Peterson contacted me and without an option of purchasing direct from lumagen he put me in touch with the Canadian distributor. I'm certain Jim is well aware of the pricing disparity and after receiving a quote I advised I would not be purchasing due to the unacceptable pricing and that was that was that.

How many hoops does a potential customer have to jump through to buy a product from them? There must be a secret hand-shake I'm unaware of.
I live in Australia and am about to buy the XD directly from the US. There are a couple of posters right here in this thread that sell the XD at very competive prices - well below the US MRSP of $3999. We pay a 10% "import" duty (that is a 10% GST or VAT as the Brits call it) only and have to add freight of course, but that still brings the product into my country at well below the USD $3999. You live just across the border, so freight costs would be piddly. And yes, buying it through our local supplier more than doubles the cost at around AUD8000!!

With regard to warranty issues when importing directly, I've bought all my DVDOs that way in the past and have not had a single issue with it. One of the DVDO's had a faulty main PCB - it was exchanged with no hassles - all I had to do is send the PCB back off to the supplier - not the whole unit. Freight costs were less than if I had sent the whole unit back to my local distributor had I bought the unit from them.

Send me a PM if you like and I'll forward you the names of the posters that sell Lumagen products. AVS BTW do not ship to Australia - not sure about Canada. But their price is really keen.

Edit:
With regard to Jim's direction to buy from your local distributor/resellers, he really has no other option as he would be bound by typical agreements that manufacturers and distributors have not to undersell or supply directly to the end user.

I guess one thing you'd lose is the constant hdmi connection/handshake. But this seems far more realistic a solution than to expect a VP with more than 6 inputs... IMHO anyway.Losing the constant handshake is one of the big disadvantages.

And, while six inputs is a lot, there is consumer HDMI gear with more inputs than that. Gefen makes an 8x1 HDMI switcher, for example, and I think I've read of AV receivers with that many as well (though I don't have a reference).

I don't take this off track by injecting non-relevant non-operational posts to this thread but I feel compelled to openly criticize Lumagens pricing strategy for Canadian customers. It's quite obvious they really don't wish to sell products in this country. A 33% premium over our US counterparts...

Sorry you are upset. I would like to point out that we don't set prices in Canada, our Candian distributor does.

So you are saying the Canadian equivalent is $5330 in US dollars?

There are import duties for the Canadian distributor to account for, but if I can get the actual price I can open a dialog about pricing. These are lower by NAFTA, but I don't think they are zero.

(EDIT) Joel's unit was actually shipped to a US address. We do not in general ever ship to Canada, as we have an exclusive arrangement with our Canadian distributor. Our dealer are not suppoesed to ship there either, but I can't say it never happens.

(EDIT) Joel's unit was actually shipped to a US address. We do not in general ever ship to Canada, as we have an exclusive arrangement with our Canadian distributor. Our dealer are not suppoesed to ship there either, but I can't say it never happens.

Jim, sorry, did not know that was a no-no...

Jim, re: canadian duties....there are none as I can attest to as a result of NAFTA..also, and this key, as a result of the Canadian dollar having a greater value than the US dollar (i.e. today CAD 1.00 = UAD 1.04+) there is no reason for the RadianceXD to cost more than CAD 3,999...if it does -- and I ahve no idea -- then the Canadian dealers are not pricing your product competitively (whether or not you have a problem is for you to determine) as (i) there are no duties and (ii) CAD $ > USD $...the math is simple...

Just curious, any heat issues with the new Radiance? In the new DVDO VP50Pro thread, it seems like a few owners are finding their units are getting very hot.

TIA.

Just curious, any heat issues with the new Radiance? In the new DVDO VP50Pro thread, it seems like a few owners are finding their units are getting very hot.

TIA.
I have experienced no heat issues, nor am I aware of any other beta testers who have reported heat issues.

Bob

Sorry you are upset. I would like to point out that we don't set prices in Canada, our Candian distributor does.

So you are saying the Canadian equivalent is $5330 in US dollars?

There are import duties for the Canadian distributor to account for, but if I can get the actual price I can open a dialog about pricing. These are lower by NAFTA, but I don't think they are zero.


Hello Jim,

The quote was $5300 CAD, which a few minutes ago is the equivalent of $5555 USD. I don't mind paying a little extra for shipping, 3-6% duties should they apply (I'm certain these processors are duty free), and a reasonable "contracted" brokerage fee. To be charged an additional $1556 USD on top of full retail for an extra cost of maybe $50 is, to put it mildly, excessive and close to a 40% price differential after conversion.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=93254&stc=1&d=1193703749

Congrats Dave. Hopefully my box will have the same goodies inside it in a couple of weeks' time :D.

Thanks Phil :)

I just plugged all my stuff but haven't done any setup yet.

I couldn't figure out how to get a given input to display, as I was too excited to read the manual... I finally had to - you just have to type in the input number... pretty much like a tv channel. D'oh!

For those waiting for a review, apologies, but it's going to take some time - I'm not even sure it's worth it in the XDs current state, as a lot of menus are still disabled. (I don't have the latest firmware so I know a few more things have been enabled, but still).

As for first impressions, I'll just say this; the menus are not the most user friendly I've ever seen. On the other hand I was able to plug all my stuff and get it all up and running (including sound) without any trouble... except for the input thing mentioned above :)

I'm off to actually reading the manual.

....
I'm off to actually reading the manual.
I can't see the manual on-line on the Lumagen web site. Is there another place where it can be downloaded from?

..........
As for first impressions, I'll just say this; the menus are not the most user friendly I've ever seen. On the other hand I was able to plug all my stuff and get it all up and running (including sound) without any trouble... except for the input thing mentioned above :)

I'm off to actually reading the manual.
Yes, other posters have commented on this as well. It seems that DVDO have the best Menu system of any of the currents crop of VPs. I have the VP50 and yes, the Menu is a delight to use - simple and very elegant. I remember reading the Radiance press release in which it was stated that they were aware of this (not in so many words of course :)) and were trying to make things a lot better. Let's hope they keep on improving it.

I write software for a living. Ease of use and intuitiveness are among our primary concerns, as we write very complex systems destined to be used in part by front desk folks (high school education at most).

Well, it turns out ease of use and intuitiveness are HARD to achieve. Who knew? ;) And looking at the existing code and the corresponding GUIs, you can often tell that the programmers took the 'easy' path and just made up a table to show the user that reflects the program's internal data structure. Most of the time, this is adequate, but it's rarely great.

It looks like this is what Lumagen is doing here, to some extent. The menus seem to reflect the structure of the XD and its software, but this is far from ideal as a GUI.

How to make it better? We need wizards. Example: plug in and turn on all your equipment. Turn on the XD. XD detects used inputs, and takes you through each of them to for basic setup. Just an idea.

Now - I don't want to make it sound like the menus are terrible - not at all! As I said above, I was able to set up my sources, determine audio inputs (per video input), output resolutions, etc... without looking at the manual! A little exploration never hurt anyone, and just because the menus are not intuitive doesn't mean they are unusable. It's just obvious that there is a lot of room for improvement in that area. And with Lumagen's stellar history of product support, hopefully we WILL see improvements there. :)

Yes, other posters have commented on this as well. It seems that DVDO have the best Menu system of any of the currents crop of VPs. I have the VP50 and yes, the Menu is a delight to use - simple and very elegant. I remember reading the Radiance press release in which it was stated that they were aware of this (not in so many words of course :)) and were trying to make things a lot better. Let's hope they keep on improving it.

On a slightly different note ... I wonder what is the timing for the SDI-to-HDMI box? Presumably I can use the Algolith version, at least for now?

As an update to what I have posted before:

I have completed the design, and just this weekend the layout, of an SD/HD SDI to HDMI converter box. I hope to have the first units available at the end of the year as part of a small and short period of Beta.

I have not completely finalized on pricing, but believe it will be $599 US retail.

The box will output HDMI 4:2:2 mode (and probably 8:8:8 RGB for a dvi device) at the native resolution of the source. It will support 50 and 60 Hertz sources up to 1080i30 and 720p60. It will pass blacker-than-black and whiter-than-white.

Just curious, any heat issues with the new Radiance? In the new DVDO VP50Pro thread, it seems like a few owners are finding their units are getting very hot.

TIA.

Interestingly the Radiance power is almost the same as our older Vision series. This is because we are more DC-DC converters from some of the supply voltages, which saves power over the linear regulators used in the Vision Series.

We expect the final power spec of the RadianceXD to be less than 18 watts for the main case. The external power supply consumes about 5 watts in this case, which being separate from the main case, does not contribute to heat in the main unit.

Jim, will the HD/SD-SDI converter have a passthru mode for 480i and 576i which avoids colourspace conversions?

Martin

It sounds to me like Canadian and Australian distributors of Lumagen products are ripping off their customers by adding an unreasonably high retail mark-up.

In light of this, Lumagen might want to reconsider its exclusive arrangements with overseas dealers. It doesn't seem that they are serving their customers well.

Jim, will the HD/SD-SDI converter have a passthru mode for 480i and 576i which avoids colourspace conversions?

Martin

Yes. Our output will be 4:2:2 HDMI format. There is no color-space conversion, or level changes. Since SD and HD SDI are both 10-bit 4:2:2 formats, we do not have data manipulations of any kind.

Also, there is no scaling and no deinterlacing. You get the raw bits as we receive them.

I suspect the pricing issue is due to, in some part at least, as suggested, the current weakness in the US dollar, and that prices were set before this change. I understand about the NAFTA reducing fees, but I am pretty certain the customs folks still charge a processing fee, and shipping to Canada is more expensive than within the US. Still, that does not explain to me a $1300 premium in Canada.

I am, unfortunately, between a rock and a hard place. We can't do as good of job supporting foreign countries as we want without local representation, and the local representation needs an exclusive on a product line such as ours.

I will discuss the matter with our Canadian and Austrailia distributors and see what can be done to bring pricing more in-line with the US.

Dave:

I will say our menu system is based on what we think the user needs to see to navigate amoung all the setup and calibration features, and not based on our internal software structure.

I believe we do have many more features than the competition, and we wanted a logical system to accomplish setup for this extensive list in a logical manner. We have numerous calibrators who have said it is an easy to use, and logical, menu system once they get a handle on the available features.

I can't argue that some form of setup wizard would be nice. We are talking about such improvements after we release to production. However, we continue to recommend professional setup and calibration, and have structured our menu system for professional calibrators at this point.

I believe you will come to like the menu structure once you get familiar with it.

I believe you will come to like the menu structure once you get familiar with it.

I think the (relative) complexity stems from the great flexibility of the XD's memories configuration system. I'll concede it probably wouldn't be easy to 'hide the complexity' there - and let's face it, that flexibility is one of the reasons many people will choose the XD over the competition.

That said - I'm sure you're right and a little more familiarity will help overcome that feeling. But if you're open to ideas when you cross that bridge (wizards or whatever) I'd be happy to provide some input! :)