What were you using before? I wasn't expecting any great increase in quality upgrading to the Radience except for custom scaling and management of HDMI etc.

I was not using anything before - no scaler/processor anyway.

I have a Denon 5900DVD player for my SD disks - it does a great job on scaling. The XD improves above that.

My TWC (Time Warner Cable) is totally changed for the better. Even on the Universal HD channel the images become more stunning. They were showing "The Trouble with Harry" - my wife and I felt that we were viewing the entire movie through an ultra-clear window - that the action was happening right then and there. In the home, we could not only see the wallpaper pattern - but the subtle background on the wallpaper.

We have now used the XD enough to view two poor movies - both pre 1970 movies that seemed to be just dumped to disk with out any care or concern for the original quality. Two out of 30-40 movies is a very worthwhile tradeoff.

Note that I am only talking about PQ - perceived quality - YMMV of course.

LT

ca1ore: Have you tried sending analogue 480i to Radiance?

Normally I play it on an Oppo feeding 480i to the Radiance.

I just discovered the Oppo, its a gem with the XD.

I started with my much loved Sony DVP-S7000 into the XD using component analog 480i. It looked terrible. I mean really really bad. Chroma noise all over the place. It was clear that my previous reference DVD player had met its match. Keep in mind I have a 127" W 2.35 screen and sit at 0.8 x W for 2.35 so even tiny issues literally leap off the screen at you.

I bought the Oppo (at 1/10th the price of the Sony when originally released) and just getting the DVD signal into the digital domain has made a massive difference in PQ.

I tried SD DVDs on my A30 @ 1080p and compared it to the Oppo @ 480i scaled by the XD to 1080p for the RS1. The PQ difference was very noticable. I will continue with the Oppo at 480i scaled by the XD.

Of course, sitting as close as I do, actual HD/BR sources look far better than SD DVD, but its surprising how watchable good DVDs are with the XD.

Have you tried your A30 outputting @480i for SD DVD -> Radiance? How does this compare with the Oppo set at 480i -> Radiance?

(I have a European EP30 version - assume that the A30 is the same in it's abilities to output 480i)

John

Actually, I did run the A30 at 480i for SD DVDs, and it looked good. I didn't have the Oppo to compare against at the time. Constantly having to go in to the A30 menu to reset the output resolution to 480i was what convinced me to get the Oppo after I concluded the S7000 had to go.

OK. I should get my Radiance tomorrow. Yayyy

I wonder if the Oppo sending 480i over HDMI is better than the PS3 sending 480i over HDMI. I have my PS3 set to output 480i on SD content. So far the Gennum in my RS2 does a great job with it, but if the OPPO is better...

For 480i performance, there is no better source than the Secrets of Home Theater DVD Benchmark (http://69.64.68.156/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi).

Personally, I let the XD do all the conversion. I run 1080p24 from BR/HD DVD sources, and 480i from SD sources into the XD then output 1080p60 to the RS1.

Is there any word on the cost for the HDMI 1.3 upgrade?

Is there any word on the cost for the HDMI 1.3 upgrade?

Yeah I thought we were going to hear something last week. :)

I just discovered the Oppo, its a gem with the XD.

I started with my much loved Sony DVP-S7000 into the XD using component analog 480i. It looked terrible. I mean really really bad. Chroma noise all over the place. It was clear that my previous reference DVD player had met its match. Keep in mind I have a 127" W 2.35 screen and sit at 0.8 x W for 2.35 so even tiny issues literally leap off the screen at you.

I bought the Oppo (at 1/10th the price of the Sony when originally released) and just getting the DVD signal into the digital domain has made a massive difference in PQ.

I tried SD DVDs on my A30 @ 1080p and compared it to the Oppo @ 480i scaled by the XD to 1080p for the RS1. The PQ difference was very noticable. I will continue with the Oppo at 480i scaled by the XD.

Of course, sitting as close as I do, actual HD/BR sources look far better than SD DVD, but its surprising how watchable good DVDs are with the XD.

Yes, I think I will spring for the Oppo as well (under $200 to my doorstep) whaile waiting to see what L does regarding SDI. Back to four disc spinners again, sigh!

OK. I should get my Radiance tomorrow. Yayyy

I wonder if the Oppo sending 480i over HDMI is better than the PS3 sending 480i over HDMI. I have my PS3 set to output 480i on SD content. So far the Gennum in my RS2 does a great job with it, but if the OPPO is better...

How do you get the PS3 to output 480i for SD content ?
I've turned the PS3 upscaler OFF in the PS3 video settings but then it puts out it 480p in my experience ... not 480i.

What am I missing in the PS3 settings ?

How do you get the PS3 to output 480i for SD content ?
I've turned the PS3 upscaler OFF in the PS3 video settings but then it puts out it 480p in my experience ... not 480i.

What am I missing in the PS3 settings ?

I'm curious too. AFAIK the PS3 can't output 480i. That's why PS1 games look the way they do.

Edit: can't output 480i through hdmi.

It is a setting only for DVD output. Let me go down and figure out where I set that and I will come back and update you.

Crap. The setting is for no upscaling for DVD output. It doesn't say anything about 480i. The TV it is plugged into doesn't show what it is outputting, but it probably is 480p.
Crap. I guess I was looking at that setting through rose colored glasses. When I saw no upscaling, I was thinking no deinterlacing also, but it probably just ouputs 480p.

Probably means I will be adding an OPPO to the mix. I will try to test this on the projector later and make fully certain that it isn't outputting 480i, but I am 98% sure it is doing the deinterlacing internally.

Bummer.

In my current setup, I am driving my CRT FP with an HTPC with 1920*817 out (Optimal res for my PJ). I am using a software player(ZP) that crops the black bars of 1080p materials in order to avoid any kind of vertical stretching.

I am considering replcing this setup with a Stand alone player + Radiance and would like to know if the VP can accept 1080p from the player, crop back bars and output 1920*817 over HDMI without any vertical scaling.

My second question is how can I send interlaced signal from HTPC to xd in order to let Vp do all processing.


Tkx.

Minor update; last tidbits about the current development, and my limited (for now) impressions of the XD's grayscale calibration feature.

It is interesting that JVC has a rebranded VP50 with CMS for the RS1/RS2. I wonder if they do it the same way as Lumagen? I just got my Radiance today! Now if I could somehow get someone to give me beta forum access.

For some reason I thought I had read that the VP50pro couldn't do the color correction for the RS1/RS2. I was a bit suprised by that.

Now if I could somehow get someone to give me beta forum access.

Read the FAQ for beta forum access.

In my current setup, I am driving my CRT FP with an HTPC with 1920*817 out (Optimal res for my PJ). I am using a software player(ZP) that crops the black bars of 1080p materials in order to avoid any kind of vertical stretching.

I am considering replcing this setup with a Stand alone player + Radiance and would like to know if the VP can accept 1080p from the player, crop back bars and output 1920*817 over HDMI without any vertical scaling.

My second question is how can I send interlaced signal from HTPC to xd in order to let Vp do all processing.


Tkx.What do you mean by 'crops the black bars'? Cropping means removing. How does one remove black bars without stretching the picture?

Also, you probably know yoru CRT better than anyone else, but... I'm surprised to hear that 1920*817 would be an 'optimal' resolution for any CRT projector. Horizontal resolution is not their forte. If it can clearly resolve 1920 horizontally, it should be able to do better than 817 vertically. Why 817 btw? Why not 816 or 818? Just curious...

It is interesting that JVC has a rebranded VP50 with CMS for the RS1/RS2. I wonder if they do it the same way as Lumagen? I just got my Radiance today! Now if I could somehow get someone to give me beta forum access.

For some reason I thought I had read that the VP50pro couldn't do the color correction for the RS1/RS2. I was a bit suprised by that.Unless this is a special version made specifically for JVC, the Pro has very limited CMS control AFAIK. I have the VP50 which has rudimentary (and very coarse) RGB gain controls, and I understand that it's still the same on the Pro.

Unless this is a special version made specifically for JVC, the Pro has very limited CMS control AFAIK. I have the VP50 which has rudimentary (and very coarse) RGB gain controls, and I understand that it's still the same on the Pro.

See this thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=968484

There is a real opportunity for Lumagen here if they package their CMS in a calibration box at a price well below $4000; most owners including me dont need all the features of a top line VP but many would be willing to pay a reasonable amount to have the option of a 709 colour space.

Dave, he is talking about doing a 2.35:1 setup which is what I do, in fact I do 1920x800p or 1920 / 2.4, anyone thinking of doing this I would suggest that because 1920 / 2.35 is not a dead even 817

what this means is that you are setting the scaler to only actively look at the 2.40:1 area of the 16:9 HD images we have, for 2.40:1 films that means you only see the actual image and no black bars(2.40:1 HD/BD films for example only have 800 lines or so of resolution), anything less than 2.40:1 like 1.85:1 films will be scaled horiz. (with bars on the side) and even vert. as well and will come out something like 1440 x 800p

if you view mostly scope films then it is pure heaven, you come out with a nice scale free scope image and with a CRT you use no lenses or etc., however it is a little sacrificed for anything less than that aspect ratio due to scaling both ways, CRT Noob any quality scaler will allow you to do this, anyone interested in seeing it in action can see my HT in my signature

-Gary

Dave, I specifically use 817 to save on video bandwidth (V imp for CRT), even if my raster allows for more height. As for regular 16/9 materials I send 1920*1080.
Now why 817 and not 816 (multiple of 8) is a video card issue.

Garry, as per your say, any good procesor will allow 1-1 perfect mapping for the active area of a 2.35 movie and will discard (or drop) the black bars. Just to confirm. Tkx.

Last, regarding gamma LUT access, Can I set value for each channel(or primary) seperatly in order to correct white point as well as luminance.

CRT Nooob and Gary

Good stuff for the CRT enthusiast. I plan on giving it a test run on my Dwin HD700.

Thanks!

Small but nice; the manual is now available on Lumagen's site for all to peruse.

So... you're talking about a constant height screen setup?

I think the XD can do this, it's called masking. I'm not sure I understand what you'd be masking though. Isn't the area above and below the image, well, black?

Dave, he is talking about doing a 2.35:1 setup which is what I do, in fact I do 1920x800p or 1920 / 2.4, anyone thinking of doing this I would suggest that because 1920 / 2.35 is not a dead even 817

what this means is that you are setting the scaler to only actively look at the 2.40:1 area of the 16:9 HD images we have, for 2.40:1 films that means you only see the actual image and no black bars(2.40:1 HD/BD films for example only have 800 lines or so of resolution), anything less than 2.40:1 like 1.85:1 films will be scaled horiz. (with bars on the side) and even vert. as well and will come out something like 1440 x 800p

if you view mostly scope films then it is pure heaven, you come out with a nice scale free scope image and with a CRT you use no lenses or etc., however it is a little sacrificed for anything less than that aspect ratio due to scaling both ways, CRT Noob any quality scaler will allow you to do this, anyone interested in seeing it in action can see my HT in my signature

-Gary

How Radiance reacts on bad edited DVDs? Is there any correction system for bad edit?
How about deinterlacing patterns other than 2:2 and 3:2 for example used in animation movies?

Milimetr

How Radiance reacts on bad edited DVDs? Is there any correction system for bad edit?
How about deinterlacing patterns other than 2:2 and 3:2 for example used in animation movies?

Milimetr

Excellent question. My own experience is that the deinterlacing is close to flawless, but I cannot say that I have tried with the range of material that you're suggesting. I could forward that question to Lumagen, but Milimetr, do you have specific titles in mind re:animation movies; I have a handful of those in my collection so I could check them out myself. Let me know. You can PM me as well if you prefer.

Thanks for the explanation. I was under the impression that some of the newest DirecTV signals are MPEG4.

I did some googling and it looks like you're right. Though I do my best, I'm not all knowing. :)

Of course you aren't, but you are by far the closest thing to all knowing that we have access to, at least on this topic. But I was under the impression, correct me if this is wrong, that you have contact with Lumagen and can get questions answered.

My situation is that the single thing I most need vp for is to improve PQ in satellite TV (DirecTV), and DTV's newest satellites are MPEG4. So if existing vps don't yet work with MPEG4, then I will need to wait until they do.

My question is: Are you able to ask if the Radiance's BAR functionality works on MPEG4 as well as it does on MPEG2, and if not, is there a plan and timetable to do so?

Excellent question. My own experience is that the deinterlacing is close to flawless, but I cannot say that I have tried with the range of material that you're suggesting. I could forward that question to Lumagen, but Milimetr, do you have specific titles in mind re:animation movies; I have a handful of those in my collection so I could check them out myself. Let me know. You can PM me as well if you prefer.

I mean for Example Monsters In., Shrek, etc.
If you will be forwarding those questions to Lumagen please ask them about deinterlacing bad edited material.

For example in DVDO VP50Pro manual I found: "bad edit detection" in Auto deinterlacing mode. I did not found anything similar in Lumagen Radiance description.

Regards,
Milimetr

I asked these two questions (BAR + deinterlacing capabilities) on the beta forum, Jim & others from Lumagen are active participants there.

About the deinterlacing; I just tried the following movies:
- Nausicaa and the valley of the wind
- Metropolis (the 2001 anime)
- The Incredibles
- Monsters, Inc

All looked flawless to me, and I'm pretty sensitive to combing/bob-ing. Milimetr, do you have any link/source about why those movies in particular, or animation movies at large, are badly edited or need special cadence detection?

Milimetr, do you have any link/source about why those movies in particular, or animation movies at large, are badly edited or need special cadence detection?

Dave: I was asking about two separate problems:
- deinterlacing capabilities of strange patterns (like 3:2:2:3:2, 2:2:2:4, 4:6, 5:5, or 8:7)
- the second thing was proper deinterlacing bad edited DVDs

but there is no assumption that animation movies are bad edited.
Sorry my English is far from perfect, so I could do some mess in my question.

Milimetr

P.S. interesting information about some CUE prolems at example of Monsters INC is here:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_2/dvd-benchmark-special-report-chroma-bug-4-2001.html
but there is problem with MPEG decoders, not video procesors or DVD material itself. Radiance has capability to correct CUE problem.

The "deinterlacing" options are not enabled on the gennum processor yet(in Lumagens software). Currently they are predetermined defaults that Lumagen have chosen. I believe that they pass the HQV weirdo cadence test disc sequence though

All HD from UK's main satellite broadcaster is MPEG4. Has been for last 2 years. From the feedback on Radiance with this source it is clear that it increases image quality with it as well.

The "deinterlacing" options are not enabled on the gennum processor yet(in Lumagens software). Currently they are predetermined defaults that Lumagen have chosen.

Does that mean – only one deintelacing pattern is available at the moment? Which one is it 2:2 or 3:2 pull down?
How it affect playing discs from PAL and NTSC land?

It means that it is set to AUTO detect what the cadence is for film and if it is not film it drops to it's per pixel video de-interlacing mode. All AUTO modes will trip up at times with certain material. The key is to make sure that when it gets the choice wrong as few times as possible and when it does it, does so showing as few artefacts as possible. I believe the settings Lumagen have currently chosen are very very good in this regard.

I suspect that at some time Lumagen may give folk options to alter the behaviour of the de-interlacing solution but as it stands it's pretty excellent.

Gordon

All clear. Thank you for the explanation.

The "deinterlacing" options are not enabled on the gennum processor yet(in Lumagens software). Currently they are predetermined defaults that Lumagen have chosen. I believe that they pass the HQV weirdo cadence test disc sequence though

All HD from UK's main satellite broadcaster is MPEG4. Has been for last 2 years. From the feedback on Radiance with this source it is clear that it increases image quality with it as well.

This may be very good news, at least to me.

Are the usual "artifacts" (block & mosquito noise ... anything else?) of MPEG via satellite present in this MPEG4 transmission in the first place? I mean is there an obvious and widely accepted problem with MPEG4 transmission for you that is clearly improved by the Radiance? Since you don't have MPEG2 to compare, you can't say whether the Radiance handles MPEG4 as well as MPEG2.

Anxiously awaiting word form the beta forum (which if the word confirms your post, I will be a member of soon.)

It would be interesting if Greg Rogers and Jim would comment on the following statement by Tom Sites of JVC concerning their new VP:

The processor was loaded with data for a SMPTE C preset, not Rec 709. Despite all the misinformation, HD content is being mastered and color corrected using SMPTE C monitors...there are no Rec 709 monitors available for the production community...something lamented by a good number of the production people who came by to see out setup. Rec 709 matrix decoding is being used, but that is a different issue.

The monitor we used was a Panasonic 3017 HD Production monitor with SMPTE C phosphors and was adjusted as closely as we could get it to correct color space. The monitor had some hours on it and Green was a little low, but mostly insignificant. The Sony monitor line is in wider use, but according to many of the production people I've spoken with, does not accurately meet the SMPTE C spec either. There are issues with phosphor life/decay time if you try to get really accurate.

As was posted by someone else, the Gennum processor cannot do the type of 3D LUT that is being done in the new processor. The incoming image data must have gamma removed, converted to linear signal, remapped to the corrected data and gamma reapplied. This is the correct way to do this sort of color correction. Whether the other mfr's are doing this, I don't know...I suspect many may not be.

"As was posted by someone else, the Gennum processor cannot do the type of 3D LUT that is being done in the new processor. "

The gamut in the Radiance is not done in the Gennum at all. It is performed in their FPGA.

Shawn

It would be interesting if Greg Rogers and Jim would comment on the following statement by Tom Sites of JVC concerning their new VP:

....

The incoming image data must have gamma removed, converted to linear signal, remapped to the corrected data and gamma reapplied. This is the correct way to do this sort of color correction. Whether the other mfr's are doing this, I don't know...I suspect many may not be.I'm not sure why you asked me to comment since this is a Lumagen thread, but yes the above is correct (as I've posted in other threads). There are some books that suggest that doing the color gamut matrix transformation on gamma corrected signals produces only small errors. I disagree with that, since I have done it both ways and the errors are significant (IMO) if the matrix transformation is applied to gamma corrected signals.

I should have been clearer. You have answered the question I had for you i.e. is there is a commonly agreed way to do this? the question for Tom was does the Radiance used the same method - seem very likely given Lumagen's technical competence.

I suppose this is the thread in which to ask...

I have a Toshiba A1 (original) HD DVD player. I plan on getting Blu Ray player too in the spring.

I'd like to get the best upscaling of SD DVDs possible (or that I can afford) for my new projection-based home theater. As far as I can tell, the Toshiba XA2 was (is?) king of the heap for upscaling SD DVD. So I'm wondering if I should try and find one.

On the other hand, I plan to purchase a JVC RS2 projector and possibly the Lumagen Radiance VP (fix the colors). So I'm wondering how the upscaling of SD of the Radiance would compare to the XA2 HD DVD player.

Mucho Thankyou.

I have the XD, A30 and RS1. I prefer to let the XD do the scaling.

Thanks Eric. However, as far as I know, the A30 isn't in the same league as the XA2 for SD scaling, hence my question.

Well Rich,

It sure is too bad you can't drive over to my house to help me test stuff out.
I have a XA2 player and the Radiance.

Theoretically the Radiance should be much better than the XA2 for SD stuff. Currently Lumagen has the best scaling technology out there. After that is the deinterlacing which is handled very well by the Gennum in the Radiance. So that is the theory.

I am going to do a comparison between the two just for my own peace of mind. So far I have only compared the Lumagen to the upscaling in my PS3 (which is no slouch with the latest firmware, but still does not look as good as the XA2). The Lumagen did a much better job from what I saw than the PS3. Well the Gennum in the RS2 did better also.

Anyway, let me know if there are some scenes that you would like me to compare. I would be glad to try them out.
So if there is any material you want me to include in my test in the next week, let me know.

One other thing is the Radiance has the nifty Gennum based noise reduction toys to play with also. I haven't messed around with those yet, but they can probably make a difference for poor quality SD material.

One of my next big tasks is figuring out how to send SD Dish network content to my Radiance in 480i while sending 1080i for HD content without too much trouble. I am having some doubts on how well that is going to turn out.

One last comment. There is much more to the Radiance than the color correction. It could be a great addition to your Theater that is in progress. I tried my darndest to not have to buy anything extra to go with my RS2, but there were too many compelling reasons to get the Panamorph system with the Radiance.

Cameron, you're always ahead of me and my plans!

It's great that you can compare them. No special scenes that I can think of, I'd like your general impressions of the comparison of the Radiance with the XA2.

I wouldn't mind input from others on the subject too.

The Radiance does an excellent job with my TiVo3 set to native.
Football from 1080i and 720P look incredible on my 657UY. The scaling is wonderful and the 1080i content always looks great. You would probably mistake the screen for 1080p ;)

I do not think you can go wrong.

- Rich

Cameron, you're always ahead of me and my plans!

It's great that you can compare them. No special scenes that I can think of, I'd like your general impressions of the comparison of the Radiance with the XA2.

I wouldn't mind input from others on the subject too.

Yeah definitely don't go only off what I say. :D

Well my plan to use the composite output from my VIP 722 isn't going to come to fruition. The receiver does some crazy scaling to that output so you don't get an unadulterated 480i SD feed if you are using component or HDMI with HD content. I suppose I can output via SVGA on output 2 and that should work for SD content, but it isn't what I want for ease of use. :(

Well Rich,

It sure is too bad you can't drive over to my house to help me test stuff out.
I have a XA2 player and the Radiance.

Theoretically the Radiance should be much better than the XA2 for SD stuff. Currently Lumagen has the best scaling technology out there. After that is the deinterlacing which is handled very well by the Gennum in the Radiance. So that is the theory.

I am going to do a comparison between the two just for my own peace of mind. So far I have only compared the Lumagen to the upscaling in my PS3 (which is no slouch with the latest firmware, but still does not look as good as the XA2). The Lumagen did a much better job from what I saw than the PS3. Well the Gennum in the RS2 did better also.

Anyway, let me know if there are some scenes that you would like me to compare. I would be glad to try them out.
So if there is any material you want me to include in my test in the next week, let me know.

One other thing is the Radiance has the nifty Gennum based noise reduction toys to play with also. I haven't messed around with those yet, but they can probably make a difference for poor quality SD material.

One of my next big tasks is figuring out how to send SD Dish network content to my Radiance in 480i while sending 1080i for HD content without too much trouble. I am having some doubts on how well that is going to turn out.

One last comment. There is much more to the Radiance than the color correction. It could be a great addition to your Theater that is in progress. I tried my darndest to not have to buy anything extra to go with my RS2, but there were too many compelling reasons to get the Panamorph system with the Radiance.

I would love to come by and help!

I would love to come by and help!

Sure no problem. PM sent.

Re: MPEG4. According to Lumagen, the BAR is supposed to work on 16x16 macro blocks but keep in mind that 1) MPEG 4 has variable sie blocks, including 16x16 and 2) as someone pointed out MPEG4 is less susceptible to this artifact than MPEG2. Have you seen the DirecTV feeds you mention? Do they require BAR?

Re: deinterlacing. Lumagen won't go into detail into the inner workings of the gennum chip, but it should be able to handle all of the weird cadences and badly flagged DVDs. However the deinterlacing is not part of their (Lumagen's) code base since it is done within the gennum. If material is found that trips the algorithm, it is usually reported to Gennum so they can issue updates. The consensus is that it's pretty darn good to say the least. In fact this week-end I borrowed family guy season 1 from a friend. It is probably one of the worst authored DVDs ever as far as cadence goes - the XD had no problem with it and did a a pretty much perfect job.

Re: MPEG4. According to Lumagen, the BAR is supposed to work on 16x16 macro blocks but keep in mind that 1) MPEG 4 has variable sie blocks, including 16x16 and 2) as someone pointed out MPEG4 is less susceptible to this artifact than MPEG2. Have you seen the DirecTV feeds you mention? Do they require BAR?

Re: deinterlacing. Lumagen won't go into detail into the inner workings of the gennum chip, but it should be able to handle all of the weird cadences and badly flagged DVDs. However the deinterlacing is not part of their (Lumagen's) code base since it is done within the gennum. If material is found that trips the algorithm, it is usually reported to Gennum so they can issue updates. The consensus is that it's pretty darn good to say the least. In fact this week-end I borrowed family guy season 1 from a friend. It is probably one of the worst authored DVDs ever as far as cadence goes - the XD had no problem with it and did a a pretty much perfect job.

With regards to the DTV MPEG4 feeds, I am going to have to do some research on which stations come from the new sats and compare. My question was more theoretical, since I was aware that MPEG4 differed in some ways from MPEG2, and your info on the Radiance only said "MPEG".

I'll post back about what I can see or not see.

Thank you for obtaining this information, Dave

At some point I think it was mentioned that Jim was contemplating implementing a Video Delay feature. Did that ever take shape? I am a bit worried that my Onkyo 805 will have too much of an audio delay as the Radiance is such a fast processor.

Any thoughts on this?

At some point I think it was mentioned that Jim was contemplating implementing a Video Delay feature. Did that ever take shape? I am a bit worried that my Onkyo 805 will have too much of an audio delay as the Radiance is such a fast processor.

Any thoughts on this?

We talked this over and given the DRAM limits of the RadianceXD, it is looking like we would not be implementing this in the RadianceXD. It's another feature that should make it into the Pro model at some point though.

I am now planning on a much larger FPGA in the Pro model and more DRAM. So, while I won't commit to this I plan to have the capability so we could add it to the Pro model when time permitted.

We talked this over and given the DRAM limits of the RadianceXD, it is looking like we would not be implementing this in the RadianceXD. It's another feature that should make it into the Pro model at some point though.


Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo o!

Mark

We talked this over and given the DRAM limits of the RadianceXD, it is looking like we would not be implementing this in the RadianceXD.This is very disappointing news.

What I find somewhat disappointing is that "the appearance" -- and please correct me should I be worng -- that the RadianceXD has insuffficient DRAM and/or FPGA Gates for much future enhancement...this might force me to move to the XD Pro which is something I had hoped to avoid as there are some features therein that I have currently have no desire/need for and thus would not want to shell out the extra $$$...

Can DRAM be added at the time when a HDMI 1.3 upgrade is being performed??
I'm no computer expert, but while you got the baby openned up, just Super size it!

So is the need for extra DRAM just to implement the video delay feature? And is the need for the video delay feature only due to the folks having their AVR or preprocessor do the audio decoding of the more advanced codecs?

I am just curious, as I am still trying to sort out this whole HDMI 1.1 vs 1.3 mess. If the above is the case, it would seem that decoding in the player and sticking with 1.1 to the lumagen would be the best bet for keeping lip sync in check.

We talked this over and given the DRAM limits of the RadianceXD, it is looking like we would not be implementing this in the RadianceXD. It's another feature that should make it into the Pro model at some point though.

I am now planning on a much larger FPGA in the Pro model and more DRAM. So, while I won't commit to this I plan to have the capability so we could add it to the Pro model when time permitted.

+1. Damn, I really could use this feature and non of the other features.
The Most important features for me remain:

1. Virtual Inputs
2. Video Delay
3. Copy Settings

Ok. Scratch 2.

- Rich

As of now I have neither the desire nor the money to upgrade my XD to hdmi 1.3 (or add more DRAM). Like Joel I would have no interest in most of the advanced features of the Pro model. I too find it worrisome that it sounds as if the XD's limits are being reached as far as future software expandability is concerned, before it has even been officially released.

Hi Jim,

I have something related to the recent discussion on video delay. I have an XBOX360 as a source coming in on an HDMI input of the Radiance before going output1 to display and output2 to Audio processor, and I have timing games such as Guitar Hero which are now unplayable. It seems the video is displayed before the audio is heard, and while I can delay audio, there is no "negative delay" for audio. Have you or anyone else seen this, and is there a fix other than re-routing the XBOX to input to the audio processor first and then to the Radiance?

Thanks.

Hi Jim,

I have something related to the recent discussion on video delay. I have an XBOX360 as a source coming in on an HDMI input of the Radiance before going output1 to display and output2 to Audio processor, and I have timing games such as Guitar Hero which are now unplayable. It seems the video is displayed before the audio is heard, and while I can delay audio, there is no "negative delay" for audio. Have you or anyone else seen this, and is there a fix other than re-routing the XBOX to input to the audio processor first and then to the Radiance?

Thanks.

Assuming your audio processor has a HDMI output and doesn't degrade PQ, you could do as I do and send all inputs to the Radiance and send HDMI output 1 to the audio processor and have it output to the display. I do not have audio delay problems with any source including a PS3.

It seems the video is displayed before the audio is heard, and while I can delay audio, there is no "negative delay" for audio. Have you or anyone else seen this, and is there a fix other than re-routing the XBOX to input to the audio processor first and then to the Radiance?

Thanks.

This is a known issue with other equipment too. But to be fair, it's not really the Radiance's fault that it's so fast at processing...

Mark

Assuming your audio processor has a HDMI output and doesn't degrade PQ, you could do as I do and send all inputs to the Radiance and send HDMI output 1 to the audio processor and have it output to the display. I do not have audio delay problems with any source including a PS3.

What audio processor do you use?

Mark

As of now I have neither the desire nor the money to upgrade my XD to hdmi 1.3 (or add more DRAM). Like Joel I would have no interest in most of the advanced features of the Pro model. I too find it worrisome that it sounds as if the XD's limits are being reached as far as future software expandability is concerned, before it has even been officially released.

Dave: Lets not rush to judgement. IMO, JRP needs to clarify his statement. He may have inadvertantly done himself and Lumagen a disservice by not explaining how much of the "promised" enhancements might be in doubt. Also, IMO, these discussions should take place in the beta testing forum not on a public forum. We beta owners don't need FUD.

What audio processor do you use?

Mark

I have a Yamaha RX-V2700 receiver.

I really need to hook my Onkyo 805 into this system and see how bad this will affect me. It may not at all, but if it does, I guess I need to budget for the pro. :)

As of now I have neither the desire nor the money to upgrade my XD to hdmi 1.3 (or add more DRAM). Like Joel I would have no interest in most of the advanced features of the Pro model. I too find it worrisome that it sounds as if the XD's limits are being reached as far as future software expandability is concerned, before it has even been officially released.

All the planned features are still on the todo list. The video delay was never a planned feature. We just said we would take a look and see.

The color gamut is a major datapath addition to be sure, but this is the last major datapath addition planned. The remaining planned features consist of new software with potentially a tweak to the FPGA. We have a lot of room to expand software. So, do not worry, there is still a lot of room for RadianceXD enhancement.

BTW: Not sure if I mentioned this on this forum. We are now adding a (small) 3D color palette, in RGB color space, for gamut control. This will allow us to adjust the primaries and the secondaries independently. Note that grayscale, in the RadianceXD, will be held constant while you adjust the primaries and secondaries. Other manufacturers seem to be trying to do this in YCbCr space (with color/hue/offsets which has major issues), or HSL space (to get hold of the secondaries as well, but this also has issues), or a color matrix (which only corrects primaries). I believe the RGB space is the best color space for gamut control and by having a 3D look-up table we provide all the control needed to fix not only the primaries, but the secondaries as well, while still supporting our 11-point parametric grayscale calibration.

BTW: Not sure if I mentioned this on this forum. We are now adding a (small) 3D color palette, in RGB color space, for gamut control. This will allow us to adjust the primaries and the secondaries independently. Note that grayscale, in the RadianceXD, will be held constant while you adjust the primaries and secondaries. Other manufacturers seem to be trying to do this in YCbCr space (with color/hue/offsets which has major issues), or HSL space (to get hold of the secondaries as well, but this also has issues), or a color matrix (which only corrects primaries). I believe the RGB space is the best color space for gamut control and by having a 3D look-up table we provide all the control needed to fix not only the primaries, but the secondaries as well, while still supporting our 11-point parametric grayscale calibration.Jim: This is excellent news. This is really shaping up as a ground-breaking product. One question. Will the RGBCYM controls allow for independent adjustment of hue, saturation, AND lightness?

The color gamut is a major datapath addition to be sure, but this is the last major datapath addition planned. The remaining planned features consist of new software with potentially a tweak to the FPGA. We have a lot of room to expand software. So, do not worry, there is still a lot of room for RadianceXD enhancement.

Thanks I needed to hear that. :)

All the planned features are still on the todo list. The video delay was never a planned feature. We just said we would take a look and see.

The color gamut is a major datapath addition to be sure, but this is the last major datapath addition planned. The remaining planned features consist of new software with potentially a tweak to the FPGA. We have a lot of room to expand software. So, do not worry, there is still a lot of room for RadianceXD enhancement.

BTW: Not sure if I mentioned this on this forum. We are now adding a (small) 3D color palette, in RGB color space, for gamut control. This will allow us to adjust the primaries and the secondaries independently. Note that grayscale, in the RadianceXD, will be held constant while you adjust the primaries and secondaries. Other manufacturers seem to be trying to do this in YCbCr space (with color/hue/offsets which has major issues), or HSL space (to get hold of the secondaries as well, but this also has issues), or a color matrix (which only corrects primaries). I believe the RGB space is the best color space for gamut control and by having a 3D look-up table we provide all the control needed to fix not only the primaries, but the secondaries as well, while still supporting our 11-point parametric grayscale calibration.

Thank You

Hi Jim. Can you confirm that the CMS when used in the Radience will not affect Gamma also. Thanks.

Jim,

Great news on the CMS front!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Radiance is soooo awesome!

I am now planning on a much larger FPGA in the Pro model and more DRAM. So, while I won't commit to this I plan to have the capability so we could add it to the Pro model when time permitted.
Would these changes to the Pro model allow for 1080p72 output?

Not sure if I mentioned this on this forum. We are now adding a (small) 3D color palette, in RGB color space, for gamut control. This will allow us to adjust the primaries and the secondaries independently. Note that grayscale, in the RadianceXD, will be held constant while you adjust the primaries and secondaries. Other manufacturers seem to be trying to do this in YCbCr space (with color/hue/offsets which has major issues), or HSL space (to get hold of the secondaries as well, but this also has issues), or a color matrix (which only corrects primaries). I believe the RGB space is the best color space for gamut control and by having a 3D look-up table we provide all the control needed to fix not only the primaries, but the secondaries as well, while still supporting our 11-point parametric grayscale calibration.


Yahooooo.....terrific terrific terriifc...

008: Jim has stated that the cms shouldn't affect greyscale (so gamma should also remain unaffected) and even if it did you still have the forthcoming 21 point parametric gamma to allow you to tweak things further.

Gordon

008: Jim has stated that the cms shouldn't affect greyscale (so gamma should also remain unaffected) and even if it did you still have the forthcoming 21 point parametric gamma to allow you to tweak things further.

Gordon

Thanks for the reply Gordon. I have a Crystalio 2 at present and when I add red and blue to the green primary to desaturate green the red and blue luminance on Gamma go off the chart. Lowering gamma back in line simply reduces the brightness of red and blue so I am back to square one. I may as well simply reduce colour on the JVC. I want to make sure the Radience will give me better results as after countless hours with the Crystalio I cant get colour brightness correct and also Gamma at the same time.

Cheers

008: Have you reviewed the last part of this thread; http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=927089 seems the Lumagen CMS while not yet perfected is getting decent results relative to the Crystalio but I am not sure about the gamma interaction. In any case, Luamgen is still working on it.

Radiance XD in da house! Now the wait begins for CMS/color correction/gamut control features for this puppy. :D:D:D

Well, apparently almost all of DirecTV's channels are MPEG4 now.

Some of it looks fantastic, and some does not. Far from it. I think the big variations are explained by how much available bandwidth a given station uses, non-HD original content upconverted to "pseudo-HD" (my term), poor equipment for some of the sports broadcasts, and the rest to the vid processing of my equipment. My opinion is that the second and third items are the main problems.

I don't really see mosquito or block noise. What I do see is grainy images, especially in backgrounds.

I don't know if the Radiance, or any vp for that matter, can actually make some of these programs look any better.

But I still want one :o

I read they finally added noise reduction, so I'd be interested in what that can do if anything, to clean up some of the directv channels, SD & HD. I do know the right type of noise reduction can help, because I've use a PC with dscaler on Directv SD in the past.

Nvidia also has a type of noise reduction on their graphic cards helps sometimes on certain HD dvd's.

008: Have you reviewed the last part of this thread; http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=927089 seems the Lumagen CMS while not yet perfected is getting decent results relative to the Crystalio but I am not sure about the gamma interaction. In any case, Luamgen is still working on it.

I have followed that thread from the start. Simply using standard colour controls it is easy to reduce saturation, indeed reducing the RS1s colour control I can get the primaries close to rec 701 but at the expense of colour luminance. The thread does not comprensively look at both interactively from what I have read so from my understanding the trick I hope the Radience performs is to reduce saturation whilst un-affecting primary COLOUR luminance.

I have followed that thread from the start. Simply using standard colour controls it is easy to reduce saturation, indeed reducing the RS1s colour control I can get the primaries close to rec 701 but at the expense of colour luminance. The thread does not comprensively look at both interactively from what I have read so from my understanding the trick I hope the Radience performs is to reduce saturation whilst un-affecting primary COLOUR luminance.

You might want to go back and take another look at my luminance numbers in that thread. The picture is very good. However, that was with firmware revision 11/23. I was unable to get good luminance numbers with the latest firmware. I reverted back to 11/23 and am currently enjoying my RS-1 to the utmost. It sounds like the planned update will be the cat's meow. Until then, I'm sticking with 11/23.

Mike

When are we going to see the next update?

I was wondering the samething...I have my ISF coming out on Monday to do a calibration.

I have my ISF coming out on Monday to do a calibration.Why? The software is still beta and is subject to change. The new CMS / 3D color palette will be fundamentally different to anything in earlier software. You will need another ISF.

Why? The software is still beta and is subject to change. The new CMS / 3D color palette will be fundamentally different to anything in earlier software. You will need another ISF.

I want most of the settings within the projector itself. The Radiance will be for minor adjustments. So things are covered at this point.

I want most of the settings within the projector itself. The Radiance will be for minor adjustments. So things are covered at this point.Good answer!

I read they finally added noise reduction, so I'd be interested in what that can do if anything, to clean up some of the directv channels, SD & HD. I do know the right type of noise reduction can help, because I've use a PC with dscaler on Directv SD in the past.

Nvidia also has a type of noise reduction on their graphic cards helps sometimes on certain HD dvd's.

I don't know about satellite, but with cable the problem isn't really noise, it's an overcompressed signal. Anyhow, even though it's nice to have features like noise reduction, BAR, etc, make no mistake; the real strength of the XD is its CMS. It's a properly calibrated chain that will dramatically improve your PQ, not noise reduction.

Good answer!

In all honesty, I look at the resale factor of the projector....if I am paying for an ISF calibration, I'd like to be able to "add that value" to the projector when I go to sell it. Not that it increases the value a lot, but it increases the odds of selling it for fair market value. If all or most of the calibration is done via the Radiance, it adds no value to the projector

I don't know about satellite, but with cable the problem isn't really noise, it's an overcompressed signal. Anyhow, even though it's nice to have features like noise reduction, BAR, etc, make no mistake; the real strength of the XD is its CMS. It's a properly calibrated chain that will dramatically improve your PQ, not noise reduction.

About CMS. I agree that it is incredible flexibility. But what are people doing, DIY calibraton? No way you would spring for a calibration for every input.

Also do you know if there have been reviews of XD performance on the HQV test discs? HD and SD?

About CMS. I agree that it is incredible flexibility. But what are people doing, DIY calibraton? No way you would spring for a calibration for every input.
Calibrating just the display will probably get you most of the way there. Then yes the XD lets you tweak settings for each individual source. Most of the folks on the beta forum are doing DIY calibration.
Also do you know if there have been reviews of XD performance on the HQV test discs? HD and SD?The XD performance in this case comes down to the Gennum performance. I'm sure this has been tested one way or another, but I don't have any direct results to share. If I could borrow the disc from someone (Madison, WI area here) I'd be happy to report back. But on real world material I still haven't seen anything that made it trip.

I have BOTH the Radiance and the HQV test disk...tell me want you want tested and I can do it...I would also add that the Radiance uses Lumagen's proprietary no ring scaling which is likely better than what Gennum has to offer...

I have BOTH the Radiance and the HQV test disk...tell me want you want tested and I can do it...I would also add that the Radiance uses Lumagen's proprietary no ring scaling which is likely better than what Gennum has to offer...

There's a Radiance test disc? News to me :)

Well if you don't mind to go through the whole thing and report on the results that would be great. I don't know how big an ordeal this is so maybe that request is not realistic... let us know.

There's a Radiance test disc? News to me :)

Well if you don't mind to go through the whole thing and report on the results that would be great. I don't know how big an ordeal this is so maybe that request is not realistic... let us know.

No, I should have been clearly by "HQV Test Disk" I meant the SIlicon Optix HQV test disk...and yes, I will get to it within the next few days and let you know...

I don't know about satellite, but with cable the problem isn't really noise, it's an overcompressed signal. Anyhow, even though it's nice to have features like noise reduction, BAR, etc, make no mistake; the real strength of the XD is its CMS. It's a properly calibrated chain that will dramatically improve your PQ, not noise reduction.

Well, I realize that but I was curious about the noise reduction and in general all the image enhancement controls. I assume they were added but I haven't seen any comments. I don't expect anything to correct a over compressed signal, but a good noise reduction can help DVD including HD. It just depends on how well its done.

Calibrating just the display will probably get you most of the way there. Then yes the XD lets you tweak settings for each individual source. Most of the folks on the beta forum are doing DIY calibration.
The XD performance in this case comes down to the Gennum performance. I'm sure this has been tested one way or another, but I don't have any direct results to share. If I could borrow the disc from someone (Madison, WI area here) I'd be happy to report back. But on real world material I still haven't seen anything that made it trip.

hmmmmm.... I'm 4 hrs away from Madison ... maybe I could bring the discs and see in person?

saw Joelc's post ... maybe he will report. However there are TWO Silicon Optix HQV test discs, the HD (of which I have the BR version, not sure if there is a HD-DVD version) and the SD.

The new updated software is posted on the Lumagen site. :D

Beta Release 011208- Replaces gamut matrix with 3D color look-up-table algorithm allowing calibration of primaries and secondaries as well as maintaining grayscale. Can set up secondaries to be automatically calculated. The color points are set at 100% saturation. Adds 100% color bar test pattern which goes well with setting up colors at the 100% points. Adds film mode setting under Input: Video Setup:XXX:Control:Deint which is useful for some PAL film sources. Fixes and improves the output dither. Fixes a video/PC level issue in the 1217-1219 sw. Fixes a bug with video edid settings not being used if powered up on memories B-D. Fixes up incorrect timing for 540p output (set by pressing "menu 022")--in order to switch to the new timing if you're already set up for 540p you would need to switch to another mode like 480p ("menu 021") and then back. Other bugfixes.

It's going to be very interesting how this one works out! Unfortunately, I won't be home until Monday so I've got to wait for the expected joy.

Bob

Wow that update should be the bomb!

I read the post about using the native resolution for satellite sources and adjusted my DTV HD-DVR. It appears that everything is either 480p or 1080i so far. Is this how the satellite should be set for maximum picture quality?

yes ... i think that's correct.

to confirm you have native - go to the ABC HD channel or fox which uses 720p as native
NBC and CBS in HD use 1080i . ....
when you are on ABC channel if the receiver is putting out 720p and switches to 1080i when you change the channel to NBC HD it should show it as 1080i ....

For SD it should say 480i not 480p if you want any processor to work the best. Well, DVDO does have PREP when 480i isn't available, but Directv will output 480i.

I read the post about using the native resolution for satellite sources and adjusted my DTV HD-DVR. It appears that everything is either 480p or 1080i so far. Is this how the satellite should be set for maximum picture quality?

DaveN,

If you are only receiving 2 resolutions then you may want to check underneath setup/HDTV/Resolution to make sure you are able to output the resolutions you want. For instance, I have 480i, 480p, etc. selected.

Mike

yes ... i think that's correct.

to confirm you have native - go to the ABC HD channel or fox which uses 720p as native
NBC and CBS in HD use 1080i . ....
when you are on ABC channel if the receiver is putting out 720p and switches to 1080i when you change the channel to NBC HD it should show it as 1080i ....

Unbelievable as it may sound, I still don't get my local networks in HD. :(
I can only get the HD package(basic) channels.

Larry,
I can force 480i resolution but native displays the other two. What is the DTV box doing to the signal if I down resolve it?

Mike,
I'll check that in the (later) a.m.

When you say forced, do you mean pressing the format button until 480i appears? Anyway if your Directv receiver is working correctly, native will go to 480i when you are on a SD channel. I assume you are talking about the HR series ?

You do have to have it checked where Mike told you too. The lastest CE beta software for the HR20-700 has broadcast, which just passed whatever comes in without changing anything. I'm not really sure it does more than native, but they added it.

Anyway, I don't have this processor but I'm sure you have a information screen that shows you what is coming in to it. You have to use 480i if you want it to do Deinterlacing.

O.k., mystery solved. I had the DTV box setup wrong. I did not have 480i enabled as an output, just 480p,720p, and 1080i. Now it is set as native and sends 480i if need be. At least my search for a solution showed me how to force a firmware upgrade and to use the slip30 command. ;)

It also confirmed my high opinion of my dealer, Mark Haflich of Soundworks. Mark saw this thread and called me this afternoon to help me with the issue. Great product, great dealer support.

Fortunately I have a DTV DVR box and know that in set up you are suppose to enable those resolutions that your display can handle. Here you actually want to enable only those resolutions which are native with respect to the channels being relayed by DTV. 480i, 720p, and 1080i. The possible selections in the DTV box menu are 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i. So for those with a video processor, 480i, 720p, and 1080i should all be turned on and 480p left off. Setting the box to NR after these resolutions are selected will give you NR for every possible channel being relayed by DTV. Of course you can output from the processor the NR of the display, for most 1080p. The idea here by selecting NR in the DTV box and enabling 480i, 720p, and 1080i, one eliminats any scaling or deinterlacing by that box which would be inferior to the scaling/deinterlacing done by your video processor or by your projector for that matter without an external VP.

I helped Dr. Dave this afternoon. Big deal. He was on call this aftenoon and assisted in a C section delivery this afternoon. I told him about enable 480i on a box. He brought I new life into our world. I hope he gave the baby one of my business cards. :)

Its really something special re the friends you make through AVS. When I was shopping for an emergecy power generator for my house, Dave provided me with valuable information he learned through the process of buying and installing a generator or two for himself. No financial gain, just providing a human being with some knowledge possessed. To me, that's a lot what life's all about.

That and football. Go Pats. :)

It has been my experience that having 480p left checked makes no difference whatsoever as long as you have the others checked and are in NR mode i.e., I have never seen anything upconverted to 480p while in this mode. The Radiance always indicates it is receiving 480i. However, from a purist point of view, I agree, 480p should be left unchecked.

Agreed. There is no native 480p being relayed so nothing will come out 480p when the box is set to native. It will not make any difference whether it is off or on.

The lastest CE beta software for the HR20-700 has broadcast

How would one go about getting this? Are there any issues?

Mike

How would one go about getting this? Are there any issues?

Mike


You'd have to go to dbstalk.com, under Directv products and look for the cutting edge. Read the rules and when offered by Directv you can download beta software. Most times on the weekends between certain hours.

I'm not having any issues with Broadcast, but the CE program really isn't for people just wanting new features.

FYI there is another Beta Release out there posted today that fixes color patterns so they match accupel and a few other things.

Oh that I could get broadcast on my dish vip 722s.

I apparently got a bad lamp with my RS-1 that only lasted ~690 hours before blowing out. It looked OK in the very beginning, but deteriorated quickly. I just installed a new lamp, and brother, with the latest Radiance download, my HD pictures are truly near 3D, and SD sources are very watchable. I thought I was happy 6 months ago when I got the projector, but the Radiance has brought it alive. And I haven't even had it calibrated yet! I am on a quest, now to watch all of my 2.35 DVD/BR (over 500) movies, so I guess I'd better get the calibration soon.

Hi there, excellent guide, thanks!
One question: Has anyone tried to connect the Lumagen with an HTPC as source at 1080p24fps? We tried last night but it could not lock. It locked fine with the PS3.
Any tips?

And I haven't even had it calibrated yet! I am on a quest, now to watch all of my 2.35 DVD/BR (over 500) movies, so I guess I'd better get the calibration soon.

If you haven't seen the RS-1/Radiance combo using the CMS functions in the Radiance you have not seen anything yet!

Shawn

Hi there, excellent guide, thanks!
One question: Has anyone tried to connect the Lumagen with an HTPC as source at 1080p24fps? We tried last night but it could not lock. It locked fine with the PS3.
Any tips?

It's probably a problem with your htpc's timings.

That said - this isn't a support thread, questions like these should go to the beta forum :) (or maybe the main XD thread).

Ok, thanks a lot!

Has anyone tried to connect the Lumagen with an HTPC as source at 1080p24fps? We tried last night but it could not lock. It locked fine with the PS3.
Any tips?
Thanks in advance.

I thought I was happy 6 months ago when I got the projector, but the Radiance has brought it alive. .
How? Are you applying sharpening? What is different?

As an example of what the RadianceXD can do, here are the before and after gamuts for my Sim2 C3X 720.

Before
http://personalpages.tds.net/~rrwe/before.jpg


After correcting the gamut using the RadianceXD's gamut controls
http://personalpages.tds.net/~rrwe/afterlumagen.jpg

The CIE charts only show x,y data, but I was also able to get Y spot on for all primaries and secondaries using the RadianceXD. This thing has improved the color accuracy of my C3X by leaps and bounds.

Bob

Yes, huge differences with the CMS active.

This is my RS-1 stock..
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=99859&d=1200888230

This is with the Radiance (I tweaked it a little more from here too)...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=99860&d=1200888230

Raw data for the corrected color:
CIE Red Green Blue Cyan Magenta Yellow White
x .6385 0.2964 0.1503 0.2247 0.3222 0.4216 0.3184
y .331 0.6036 0.0599 0.3313 0.1558 0.5056 0.3335
Y 114.6876 342.3683 33.9371 371.3249 148.1528 456.6871 502.4237

Shawn

Shawn,

What software and measuring device do you use to adjust your display?

- Rich

Rich,

The charts were from HCFR with a DisplayLT. The raw data was done with Calman v3 and the DisplayLT.

Shawn

Rich,

The charts were from HCFR with a DisplayLT. The raw data was done with Calman v3 and the DisplayLT.

Shawn


OK. I have a lot to learn :o

- Rich

How? Are you applying sharpening? What is different?

So far, the only thing I've done is make some initial adjustments using the ISF Calibration disc from the ISF website. It's like AVIA, but easier to use. I am sure the new lamp has a lot to do with it, but the ringing on most SD sources has been reduced significantly, in part, by reducing sharpening, and the colors just jump out at me (oversaturated and all.)

and the colors just jump out at me (oversaturated and all.)

Try the gamut settings in this post...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12890505#post12890505

Please let me know how it goes.

Shawn

I have BOTH the Radiance and the HQV test disk...tell me want you want tested and I can do it...I would also add that the Radiance uses Lumagen's proprietary no ring scaling which is likely better than what Gennum has to offer...

I assume u have the HD version. Can you try the film detail test ? the second one after the stadium. It's the same resolution chart but moving (panning). It's encoded strictly as 1080i60 but the src is 24p. Did it pass this ? I read all Gennum based deinterlacers and DVDO pdts failed this (later Gennum released a firmware update but I dun know which end product are getting it)

Thanks

Rich,

The charts were from HCFR with a DisplayLT. The raw data was done with Calman v3 and the DisplayLT.

Shawn
OK. I have a lot to learn :o

- Rich
You and me both Rich - my Eye-1 Display LT should be here shortly...only one problem, my display is still 5 weeks away:eek:

Just a note on Lumagen Service:
So I had a minor power supply problem with my Radiance so I got a RMA and sent it in for repair. Lumagen received the unit this afternoon. I called them an hour ago. They are finished with the fix and testing it and will load the latest firmware and have it shipped back out to me today.

That is pretty impressive service/turn-around. Very cool.

Question for Jim Peterson:

Given your CMS seems pretty close to finished, have you decided how you will market it - ie radiance only, in other VPs, stand alone calibration box or ? If you havent decided, do you have a timeline for making that decision?

Thanks and congratulations on developing such a useful product.

Peter

I've got my Radience hooked up and it works fine but I am getting stuttering like something's out of sync.

About once a second I get a quick pause almost like a video buffer empties prematurely and has to wait for the next load, (I know it's likely not that but it's a good description of what they symptom looks like).

Unfortunately it renders the picture unwatchable.

Equipment

Sony BDP-S301
DirecTV H20
Lexicon MC12B-HD
Radience XD FR 11480
JVC RS2

It shows up on both the DirecTV and the Sony so it is likely something in the Radience or the interface from that to the Lexicon, (the Radience is between the Lex and the RS2).

Is there something I'm missing? I have it set up as 2.35 output 1080P 59.xx all HDMI. Note it is not blacking out and there is no noise, the picture just freezes momentarily once a second or so.

Any help would be appreciated.

TIA

Well, don't ask me what I did but the stuttering is gone now. I went through the config steps again then stepped through some test patterns and that was it.

The only thing I did was to turn off audio for all outputs, could that have been it? Who knows! :D

I also updated to 11508 which gave me the brightness and contrast test screens so I'll try to tweak that tonight.

Well that is good I guess. Sometimes it is good to know why things went wrong. I was going to suggest taking the Lexicon out of the picture temporarily to see if that fixed it, but I suppose that wasn't really it.

I'm glad that it is working for you though.

Well, don't ask me what I did but the stuttering is gone now. I went through the config steps again then stepped through some test patterns and that was it.

The only thing I did was to turn off audio for all outputs, could that have been it? Who knows! :D

I also updated to 11508 which gave me the brightness and contrast test screens so I'll try to tweak that tonight.

Yes, turning off the audio is both the culprit and the solution to the problem...this is something that Lumagen is aware of and working on..

"Yes, turning off the audio is both the culprit and the solution to the problem...this is something that Lumagen is aware of and working on.. "

Well, that's good to know! :eek: To Lumagens credit it does suggest setting up the audio as the first step, (which I ignored! :o ), so I wouldn't even have had the problem if I'd have just RTFM. :D It should be fixed though.

Another thing I found annoying, which has probably been mentioned before is that the remote is back lit but has the text on the panel not the buttons. I would hope that they fix that for final release. Of course if everyone is using pronto's, etc. then I guess it wouldn't be that high a priority. The Sony 301 isn't even back lit! :(

Now the good news! I checked the contrast/brightness with the built in test patterns and the RS2 defaults were spot on. I also moved the gamma from 2.1 to 2.2. I then watched some Live evening sports and a little of Worlds Fastest Indian.

Yeow, it nearly brought tears to my eyes! The XD/RS2 combo is an absolute a$$ kicking performer. Another thing I changed was to put both my DirecTV and Sony BR in native mode, allowing the XD to do all the work. I checked both the BR and SD versions of Rio Bravo and the XD brought the SD quite close to the BR version. The 301 over softens with it's upscaling.

I have to wonder if JVC made a mistake not choosing the XD as their scaler offering. I haven't even tweaked the gamut yet, (nor much else for that matter!), and it's already world class in my opinion. Once I dial in the color and get a higher gain screen I honestly have no idea what else could produce a better picture at any cost.

The only thing I can't fix is the half pixel red shift at the top, likely due to lens shift, which can't be seen on normal viewing anyway. That's it, no other complaints/shortcommings, (and I'm pretty finicky! :D )

That sounds great! Which Sony BR player are you using? I sure wish I could get my PS3 to output 480i instead of 480p so the XD can do it all.

Hi Phil,

I am sure that Jim and the guys are on the case for the audio issue. The remote isn't going to be changing though I'd think. Enjoy your great system!

Gordon

I'm using the Sony BDP-S301 I got at Costco. It's basically a 300.

I had a question on Gamut tweaking. Is the correct methodology to subtract red to get pretty much parallel with the reference then add blue/green to get the dots to line up?

Also, the manual suggests getting D65 correct at IRE100 first. For the RS2, does one use the custom gamma window to do this?

TIA

I ordered the Radiance few days ago (its the only VP with CMS) and considering getting the Integra 9.8 pre/pro (HDMI 1.3) next. I do have some concerns and would appreciate your help.

First the Radiance is only HDMI 1.1 and thus won't pass DTS-MA from the BD player nor SACD DSD from a DVD transport..
Second is I live in PAL Land and the Integra doesn't accept 50Hz Video material (576i or 1080i) from the DVD player or SAT Receiver

Knowing that the Integra is 1.3 HDMI compliant and the Radiance is able to output sound with blank video(720p) on its second HDMI output, I came with a workaround with the following connections:

DVD Player -(HDMI SACD DSD) -> [HDMI inp1] Integra

DVD Player -(HDMI 576i) -> [HDMI inp 1] Lumagen[HDMI out 1] -> VP
............................................................ .......[HDMI out 2]-(720p+sound)->Integra

BD Player -(HDMI DTS-MA)-> [HDMI inp2] Integra [HDMI out] -> [HDMI inp2] Lumagen

In this setup, The Integra is present on both the input and the output of one of lumagen HDMI connectors and am not sure if it works. Also, will the BD player output DTS-MA Stream to the Integra if an 1.1 HDMI device(lumagen) will handle video at the final output? And last if the lumagen is present with a 576i 50hz / 1080i 50hz video on its input, whats the framerate on its Blank second 720p HDMI out? Will the frame rate get modified? if so, will this modify the soundStream?

Tkx, Sam.

blanked video will be sent at the same frame rate as OUTPUT1

........ And last if the lumagen is present with a 576i 50hz / 1080i 50hz video on its input, whats the framerate on its Blank second 720p HDMI out? Will the frame rate get modified? if so, will this modify the soundStream?

Tkx, Sam.
I asked much the same question in the Lumagen Forum:

Am about to install my new XD - finally -(don't ask).

I will require 768p (1366 x 768)- Video only - for one of the HDMI outputs to go to my new display's HDCP equiped DVI input so that it's 1:1 pixel mapped.

The second HDMI output - Audio only - is to go to my new (and as yet untested) Onkyo 605 receiver. As far as I can work out, the Onkyo will only accept either 720p or 1080i/p standard resolution and not an odd-ball 768p.

I have read through the new manual (scantely at least) and can't seem to find any reference to being able to achieve two different output resolutions on its two outputs, even though I am using one output exclusively for Video and the other exclusively for Audio.

Does anyone have any ideas here? Maybe the Onkyo does accept 768p which would be the easy way out of course. I could always resort to using the SPDIF output, but then I loose out on M-PCM.

Just curious if some people have done this kind of setup before and have it all sorted.

And this is the answer I received from them:

"In this configuration you can have different resolutions on the two outputs. You can set Output 1 to 768p or any resolution you need to drive your display. When you turn the "Video Off" on Output 2 it will have audio and be fixed at 1080i with black video."

Sam, also have a look at the Unofficial Radiance XD thread here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=909924) and at this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12462119#post12462119)in this thread.

This is how I run my audio:

720P from Radiance HDMI1 OUTPUT to my PJ
1080i (no video) from Radiance HDMI2 OUTPUT to my Processor. This carries Multi Channel LPCM from my HD DVD player and BD player.

BTW - THe Anthem is NOT (and will not be) HDMI 1.3.

I have not yet tweaked the XD since it arrived - it has worked so well for me. However my wife and I have been watching a lot of older black and white films lately - we did not expect outstanding results - we know poor transfers is an issue, but we did expect more than we have been getting/seeing.

Are there any old-movie buffs out there with an XD who might have looked into tweaking the settings especially for b&w?

thanks
LT

BTW - THe Anthem is NOT (and will not be) HDMI 1.3.

Sorry meant Integra :D, it is the onkyo integra 9.8 DTC with HDMI 1.3 confirmed. I modified my post.

I have not yet tweaked the XD since it arrived - it has worked so well for me. However my wife and I have been watching a lot of older black and white films lately - we did not expect outstanding results - we know poor transfers is an issue, but we did expect more than we have been getting/seeing.

Are there any old-movie buffs out there with an XD who might have looked into tweaking the settings especially for b&w?

thanks
LT

A suggestion...either learn (including purchasing the necessary equipment) or get a ISF certified calibrator to tweak your grayscale as this will vastly improve all viewing materials but black and whites movies in particular.

HTH.

I asked much the same question in the Lumagen Forum:

Am about to install my new XD - finally -(don't ask).

I will require 768p (1366 x 768)- Video only - for one of the HDMI outputs to go to my new display's HDCP equiped DVI input so that it's 1:1 pixel mapped.

The second HDMI output - Audio only - is to go to my new (and as yet untested) Onkyo 605 receiver. As far as I can work out, the Onkyo will only accept either 720p or 1080i/p standard resolution and not an odd-ball 768p.

I have read through the new manual (scantely at least) and can't seem to find any reference to being able to achieve two different output resolutions on its two outputs, even though I am using one output exclusively for Video and the other exclusively for Audio.

Does anyone have any ideas here? Maybe the Onkyo does accept 768p which would be the easy way out of course. I could always resort to using the SPDIF output, but then I loose out on M-PCM.

Just curious if some people have done this kind of setup before and have it all sorted.

And this is the answer I received from them:

"In this configuration you can have different resolutions on the two outputs. You can set Output 1 to 768p or any resolution you need to drive your display. When you turn the "Video Off" on Output 2 it will have audio and be fixed at 1080i with black video."

Sam, also have a look at the Unofficial Radiance XD thread here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=909924) and at this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12462119#post12462119)in this thread.

I use two outputs with Output2 set to blank video sent to an Onkyo Pro 885. It works fine. My Onkyo will NOT accept audio at 768P, it does not recognize the signal.

- Rich

Are there any old-movie buffs out there with an XD who might have looked into tweaking the settings especially for b&w?

Some folks set up their displays to 5400K for B&W viewing. This would be easy to set up as one of the memory settings in the Radiance.

Mike

Some folks set up their displays to 5400K for B&W viewing. This would be easy to set up as one of the memory settings in the Radiance.

Mike

That is interesting. Does the B and W stuff look better with the warmer temp? That really seems down there. I guess I could always do a setup that way and see how it turns out.

Is there a black and white movie out there that is considered the benchmark for the genre (with an appropriate display media)?

That is interesting. Does the B and W stuff look better with the warmer temp? That really seems down there. I guess I could always do a setup that way and see how it turns out.

Is there a black and white movie out there that is considered the benchmark for the genre (with an appropriate display media)?Art Sonneborn showed a clip of Cassablanca on his new HT5000 at his meet a while back It was teh best B&W presentation I have ever seen in a HT. It was fabulous. Ken WHitcomb did his calibration, and he did calibrate it to something other than D65 but I don't remember what it was. Even lower than 5400 IIRC. Art probably knows and would likely be happy to elaborate. HTH, Scott

Does anyone have the gamut matrix numbers for the Radience with an RS2?

I tried to do mine last night but I think I have a bad sensor. :( Anyways, I would think that someone elses numbers are probably better than the defaults and would at least be worth a try. :D

TIA

Added a link to a mini shootout thread between the Anthem D2 and the XD.

New firmware release includes the following:

Beta Release 121707- Adds 2D/3D (aka temporal) noise reduction. Adds adaptive contrast enhancement. Adds directional sharpness and texture settings. The noise/contrast/sharpness settings are all found under the Input:Video Setup:XXX:Enhance menu. Modifies the primary gamut controls so that they now affect the secondaries and adds a direct matrix entry option in the menu. Fixed some small color conversion errors in the video datapath. Adds hotplug mode setting (under Input:HDMI Setup) for situations where the source does not tolerate hotplug retriggering for EDID updates. Numerous bugfixes.

How well does the temporal noise reduction work on the Radiance? There seemed to be a good bit of interest in noise reduction but I haven't seen anyone actually say how it works. If they have then I missed it. So, just wondering well it works and how it affects the picture. Especially on something like HD channels over satellite, which vary greatly and need noise reduction at times. But only if its works right.

Actually I'm interested in hearing about any of the image enhancement type of controls. Since I already have a VP50pro a better noise reduction is one thing I am thinking about, because I have no idea what features they might add.

I use two outputs with Output2 set to blank video sent to an Onkyo Pro 885. It works fine.


Obviously the lumagen scaled the signal to 1080i on the second output. hence it worked with your onkyo. my problem is refresh rate of 50hz which is not accepted by the integra.

My Onkyo will NOT accept audio at 768P, it does not recognize the signal.
- Rich
it didn't recognize ie: no audio + no video or only no video.

Question to Lumagen: I've just heard that Sigma Designs has bought Gennum? What does that mean for Lumagen? Will Sigma/Gennum continue to develop new VXP video processing only chips? Or will the current VXP chips be end of the line?

Does it matter for Lumagen as the XD processing section is upgradeable? If someone other than gennum comes up with a better solution than the current one they have then they can change that part out :D

As I am about to order the Lumagen, can you tell me when the 1080p24fps firmware is expected? I have seen this VP and love it, but the non-1080p24fps output support would be a deal breaker for me..

It's planned for sometime in February.

Thanks Dave!

Does it matter for Lumagen as the XD processing section is upgradeable? If someone other than gennum comes up with a better solution than the current one they have then they can change that part out :DYes, I think they were very smart here - keeping 3rd party VPs on an entirely separate module and retaining as much of their own processing such as their no-ring scaling etc etc on the main board. If push come to shove, they could do all the processing including NRs in their own FPGA(s) on the main board as for example DVDO currently do.

As I am about to order the Lumagen, can you tell me when the 1080p24fps firmware is expected? I have seen this VP and love it, but the non-1080p24fps output support would be a deal breaker for me..

It's planned for sometime in February.My understanding is that the February update will be for 1080p24 sources only. Support for 24fps output from 480i60 and 1080i60 (requiring genlock) is still slated for development after the Radiance comes out of Beta. I wouldn't worry too much about it; it will come and Lumagen has the best pedigree of the lot with genlock. I'm not sure if the Radiance will support 1080p60 to 1080p24 conversion though.

Also waiting for the Copy function

any feeling as to when

Random small comment to add to this (altogether very useful) FAQ if you wish.

The RadianceXD does not come with 19" rack ears in the box. You can order them very easily from Lumagen for $49 though, as I just discovered (and did!)

Chris.

Just hooked up my RadianceXD, which arrived this morning.

The UI took a little getting used to, even so I was up & running within about 10 minutes.

So far, I'm very happy. Good job! I love the fact it starts up in "only" about 10 seconds or less (compared to my old CII which is 30 seconds+, on good days).

Chris.

Also waiting for the Copy function

any feeling as to when

This is slated for February as well. Tonight I'll update the FAQ with the revised timeline. (With the usual caveat that it's just Lumagen's plans, not commitment - but since they ALWAYS deliver anyway there seems to be little difference between the two.)

D_B_0673, you should ask for access to the beta forums, that is where that information comes from.

Added a link to a mini shootout thread between the Anthem D2 and the XD.

I looked thru the FAQ twice ... can't seem to find it

See the bullet point just above the "What about build quality?" question.

Maybe I should make it bit more obvious :).

Also waiting for Virtual Inputs :p

- Rich

Also waiting for Virtual Inputs :p

- Rich

Definitely an after release feature. :)

Definitely an after release feature. :)

I hope you are wrong. It is not pleasant to have to switch my Lumagen input to listen to music (being non-visual and all) ;)

- Rich

I hope you are wrong. It is not pleasant to have to switch my Lumagen input to listen to music (being non-visual and all) ;)

- Rich

I wouldn't hold my breath. In fact I just checked and it's not even in the list of post release features. I'm not sure Jim has addressed the possibility one way or the other. I mean it's a pretty neat concept and doesn't seem complicated to do so I'd be shocked if wasn't done at some point in the future. But right now I'm sure Lumagen is anxious to get this thing to production and virtual inputs don't really qualify as a must-have feature for release. Just my $0.02 anyway - worth even less than usual these days. :D

Just hooked up my RadianceXD, which arrived this morning.

The UI took a little getting used to, even so I was up & running within about 10 minutes.

So far, I'm very happy. Good job! I love the fact it starts up in "only" about 10 seconds or less (compared to my old CII which is 30 seconds+, on good days).

Chris.

I look forward to hearing your future comments in regards to the Lumagen vs. the Crystalio II.

Update!

The list of features has been reprioritized based on the input of beta users. Plus a couple minor things, like, what does "XD" mean anyway?

Edit: I just noticed that the "component type select as RGBHV, RGBS, RGsB" feature was still listed by Jim as upcoming, but I could swear that it's already implemented (I listed it as such). I'll double check later.

I wouldn't hold my breath. In fact I just checked and it's not even in the list of post release features. I'm not sure Jim has addressed the possibility one way or the other. I mean it's a pretty neat concept and doesn't seem complicated to do so I'd be shocked if wasn't done at some point in the future. But right now I'm sure Lumagen is anxious to get this thing to production and virtual inputs don't really qualify as a must-have feature for release. Just my $0.02 anyway - worth even less than usual these days. :DMy gut feeling is that this will happen at some point as it's not a data pipeline feature and would add real value. Even once Lumagen start shipping v1.3a Radiances some will need their SSP to switch the HDMI in order to implement some form of video path delay vs. the audio path.

Also waiting for Virtual Inputs :p

- Rich

what will virtual inputs do?
What are the benifits of having that?

I would have thought you could possibly use the 4 memory buttons to be virtual inputs for each input as it is.

Gordon

what will virtual inputs do?
What are the benifits of having that?If you choose to switch HDMI in your SSP or other switch and feed a single HDMI input to the Radiance, you can still have per-source calibration...

what will virtual inputs do?
What are the benifits of having that?

If you choose to switch HDMI in your SSP or other switch and feed a single HDMI input to the Radiance, you can still have per-source calibration...

With advanced audio codec and legacy SACD, the sound formats cannot be passed by the Radiance. Also, if you are listening to DVD-Audio or SACD, it is a convenience to put the disk in turn on the Preamp and not have to reach for the remote.

Virtual inputs postpone or negate the need for 1.3 in your Radiance.

- Rich

Has anyone else had this issue?:

When I pause a movie (it's happened with two different players on two different inputs. Coax and optical)..I will get a "feedback" sound...until I turn off the player and turn it back on. I've run the cables directly to the processor (bypassing the Radiance) and have not heard the problem leaving the radiance out of the loop.

We haven't heard of anyone else having this issue. Please give us some more details so that we can try to duplicate your audio feedback issue.

1. What is the brand and model number of the video sources?
2. Is there a particular movie or will any movie do this?
3. What software do you have loaded on your Radiance?

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

The two players were the OPPO 981 playing "Waitress" and "Trade". Toshiba A35 playing "Kingdom"

The last software was 1/12/08

This might be random, and best posted elsewhere, but it only started when I hooked up the XD.

My TiVo Series 3 insists on always changing to "1080i fixed" output, regardless of what I tell it to do, but only when feeding the XD. I set it to "Native". It changes to whatever it needs to change to just fine. Next time the XD powers up, TiVo switches to 1080i fixed. I set it to, say, 480i. It sets the output to 480i. But, again, after a power-on of the XD it'll end up on 1080i fixed!

I've tried a manual EDID, with only known-to-emit resolutions being advertised. I guess I'll remove 1080i next and see what TiVo does then!

My CII doesn't have this impact on it, nor does the PJ or the LCD screen. It's only the Tivo->XD combination.

Very odd. Thoughts anyone?

Chris.

This might be random, and best posted elsewhere, but it only started when I hooked up the XD.

My TiVo Series 3 insists on always changing to "1080i fixed" output, regardless of what I tell it to do, but only when feeding the XD. I set it to "Native". It changes to whatever it needs to change to just fine. Next time the XD powers up, TiVo switches to 1080i fixed. I set it to, say, 480i. It sets the output to 480i. But, again, after a power-on of the XD it'll end up on 1080i fixed!

I've tried a manual EDID, with only known-to-emit resolutions being advertised. I guess I'll remove 1080i next and see what TiVo does then!

My CII doesn't have this impact on it, nor does the PJ or the LCD screen. It's only the Tivo->XD combination.

Very odd. Thoughts anyone?

Chris.


That is weird. It does sound like an EDID problem, but it looks like you have done the right stuff to compensate for that.

I guess you can never turn your Radiance off. :D

Well I hope you can figure it out. At least you can go native with your Tivo 3machine. My Dish 722 can't do native mode. :(

I guess you can never turn your Radiance off. :D

I never turn mine off. I always left my HDQ too. Power consumption is low, and you avoid of lot of EDID/HDCP issues. Lumagen recommends leaving the Radiance on full-time.

This might be random, and best posted elsewhere, but it only started when I hooked up the XD.

My TiVo Series 3 insists on always changing to "1080i fixed" output, regardless of what I tell it to do, but only when feeding the XD. I set it to "Native". It changes to whatever it needs to change to just fine. Next time the XD powers up, TiVo switches to 1080i fixed. I set it to, say, 480i. It sets the output to 480i. But, again, after a power-on of the XD it'll end up on 1080i fixed!

I've tried a manual EDID, with only known-to-emit resolutions being advertised. I guess I'll remove 1080i next and see what TiVo does then!

My CII doesn't have this impact on it, nor does the PJ or the LCD screen. It's only the Tivo->XD combination.

Very odd. Thoughts anyone?

Chris.

i have the same combo and my tivo also seems to "switch" to 1080i or 480i after i set it to "native" .... i'd never thought it might be because of the radiance ..i'll try and experiment and report back ....

Hi all,

I'm interested in buy the XD once HDMI 1.3 is aviable. My question, would I see a benefit with my existing equipment. I hope to upgrade to a projector in a year or so.

Sony KDS60A3000
Yamaha 3800 1.3 reciver
Panasonic DMP-30 bluray
Toshiba A35 HD DVD
Xbox Elite
D*TV HR21

Thanks again,
M1

It would seem that the radiance is not syncing properly with my projector. I can't get any of the HDMI inputs to produce an image. I can see the menu of the radiance, but nothing other than that. When I turn the radiance off and then back on...I get what appears are syncing problems with the projector...ripping, green on bottom...black on top...red flashes of color etc...until it settles on the black screen and the menu.

I've tried the source components direct to the projector and get an image. So one can assume it's the radiance. My source components are directv hd receiver, OPPO 981 sd player, Toshiba A35 HDdvd player and Pioneer 94 Blu Ray player. None of the inputs or source components produce an image.

I would assume it needs to be sent in for service (just had an complete ISF calibration using the radiance). Anything I am missing? BTW: system worked perfectly yesterday, but not today after NO changes. I did update the firmware this am with the latest (1/15) and still have the problem.

Ron

It would seem that the radiance is not syncing properly with my projector. I can't get any of the HDMI inputs to produce an image. I can see the menu of the radiance, but nothing other than that. When I turn the radiance off and then back on...I get what appears are syncing problems with the projector...ripping, green on bottom...black on top...red flashes of color etc...until it settles on the black screen and the menu.

I've tried the source components direct to the projector and get an image. So one can assume it's the radiance. My source components are directv hd receiver, OPPO 981 sd player, Toshiba A35 HDdvd player and Pioneer 94 Blu Ray player. None of the inputs or source components produce an image.

I would assume it needs to be sent in for service (just had an complete ISF calibration using the radiance). Anything I am missing? BTW: system worked perfectly yesterday, but not today after NO changes. I did update the firmware this am with the latest (1/15) and still have the problem.

Ron

Probably best to post this in the beta forum. In addition, a few comments based upon my experience. Have you verified that the output resolution is still correct e.g. the Radiance didn't revert to the factory resets? Secondly, assuming ALL the inputs and outputs are in the correct slots, try a hard reboot of the Radiance i.e. turn it off, unplug the 12v input and plug it again making sure the 12v input is FULLY seated. Turn back on and see if switching inputs etc. fixes the problem. Sorry for the limited suggestions.

I did post in the beta forum first...just for complete coverage and discussion I posted it hear too. I did do a hard reset with no positive results. All output resolutions are correct.

My TiVo Series 3 insists on always changing to "1080i fixed" output, regardless of what I tell it to do, but only when feeding the XD. I set it to "Native". It changes to whatever it needs to change to just fine. Next time the XD powers up, TiVo switches to 1080i fixed. I set it to, say, 480i. It sets the output to 480i. But, again, after a power-on of the XD it'll end up on 1080i fixed!.I have the same problem. It doesn't occur with the TiVo connected through my Denon AVR, but does when the TiVo is directly connected to the Radiance.

Definitely some sort of EDID issue but I don't know what the solution is. It's possible that this forthcoming product from Gefen (http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=4715) might help, but it's a little pricey and it's not yet available.

I did post in the beta forum first...just for complete coverage and discussion I posted it hear too. I did do a hard reset with no positive results. All output resolutions are correct.
besides powering the radiance ...did you try reseting it to factory defaults ? since i assume it has your config even when you power it down when it powers up ?
I had a weird problem where the picture was all garbled with the VW60 .... powering the radiance down did not help but resetting it to factory setting after powering down did help ...don't know what it was but something in my config caused the problem.

I have the same problem. It doesn't occur with the TiVo connected through my Denon AVR, but does when the TiVo is directly connected to the Radiance.

Definitely some sort of EDID issue but I don't know what the solution is. It's possible that this forthcoming product from Gefen (http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=4715) might help, but it's a little pricey and it's not yet available.

As csundbon mentions in post 2065, just leave the Radiance on all the time. Thats what I do and I have no issues with an SA 8300HD.

As csundbon mentions in post 2065, just leave the Radiance on all the time. Thats what I do and I have no issues with an SA 8300HD.

There is another advantage in doing this; when the XD is turned on it goes into initialization mode and does not respond to commands during that period. This lasts for about 20 seconds IIRC. It's annoying because you can't turn it on and then switch to a specific input right away - whether you use IR or RS232 control. Leaving it on all the time solves that issue as well. The XD consumes very little power (it will go up as features are added, but it's still very little).

For those who have the JVC RS-1 and Radiance, how is the 1080i deinterlacing of the RS-1 taking the HDTV direct vs. the radiance taking 1080i HDTV and sending out the best rate for the 1080p JVC? What is that by the way, 1080p 24 frames/sec or?
Thanks mark

As csundbon mentions in post 2065, just leave the Radiance on all the time. That's what I do and I have no issues with an SA 8300HD.I generally leave it on too, but I don't consider that an acceptable long-term solution. Power sometimes fails, the TiVo sometimes has to be restarted, the Radiance needs to be reconfigured for troubleshooting, etc.

I don't know whether the "fault" (if we can characterize it that way) lies with the Radiance or with the TiVo, but ideally this should work without requiring a special workaround.

I was just reviewing the description for NLS 4:3 to 16:9, and I can't wait until March for its implementation. I am so looking forward to viewing 4:3 material in 16:9 w/o the "fat people" look that occurs when watching 4:3 in 16:9 linear stretch. I hope it stays on schedule.

Me too! NLS is one of the top 5 features of the Lumagen VP line and I can't wait. I'm so sick of missing half the picture with LBOX or having everyone look fat with 16x9.

Me too! NLS is one of the top 5 features of the Lumagen VP line and I can't wait. I'm so sick of missing half the picture with LBOX or having everyone look fat with 16x9.

While I fully agree this is becoming less and less of an issue for me as my local cable provider is providing more and more channels in HD...hopefully this trend will continue....

Hey guys, Im a processor newbie and had a few quick questions before I pulled the trigger on what appears to be a near perfect product...

My only source is a BD player and an older Denon receiver that accepts 7.1 PCM over HDMI. My main uses for the Radiance would be for the CMS for an RS1 and for CIH when I finally buy a UH380 lens.

Here's my only concerns:
-HDMI 1.3
I'm not even sure if I'll ever need this but it sure would be nice that if down the road, Lumagen can upgrade this. If I've read correctly, thay have stated they will be able to upgrade, for a price, the Radiance to 1.3. True or false?
-Lip sync delay
It appears that the Radiance will never have this feature. I have yet to have this issue but you never know what will happen when I add another component in the chain. Can't receivers fix any lip sync problems? Who gets and what causes these issues?

Thanks for any help!

There is another advantage in doing this; when the XD is turned on it goes into initialization mode and does not respond to commands during that period. This lasts for about 20 seconds IIRC. It's annoying because you can't turn it on and then switch to a specific input right away - whether you use IR or RS232 control. Leaving it on all the time solves that issue as well. The XD consumes very little power (it will go up as features are added, but it's still very little).

Hm, My serial control stuff doesn't seem to have a problem with it so far, but I've not had time to extensively integrate it yet.

The other problem with keeping it on all the time is that with the XD in the path, I seem to lose HDMI audio randomly from the TiVo. Doubly annoying because putting the TiVo into Native mode is enough to make the XD stop sending audio now. I suspect I over-tweaked and will have to go to factory defaults!

Chris.

The Radiance is designed to be left powered on if you want to run it this way. There is even a menu option so that it automatically powers on when power is applied, such as after a power failure. To set this press "Menu, Other, OnOff Setup, Auto On, Ok, Turn on, Ok". Make sure that you "Save" this new setting.

The Radiance has a "Hotplug mode" that you can set so that the Tivo won't re-read the EDID in the Radiance and change output modes. To set hotplug, select the HDMI input that is connected to the Tivo. Then press "Menu, Input, HDMI Setup, Hotplug mode, Ok, Always On, Ok".

If you still have an issue with audio, post a description of your system, connections and input/output resolutions. We would like to duplicate this issue so we can see what is going on.

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

The real problem is more to do with finding time to work with it! Whilst the issues I have encountered might be disapointing so far, I'm far too pragmatic to let it worry me.

I have no problem with having the XD on all the time. Marginally it'll be of minimal impact in this house!

Hey guys, Im a processor newbie and had a few quick questions before I pulled the trigger on what appears to be a near perfect product...

My only source is a BD player and an older Denon receiver that accepts 7.1 PCM over HDMI. My main uses for the Radiance would be for the CMS for an RS1 and for CIH when I finally buy a UH380 lens.

Here's my only concerns:
-HDMI 1.3
I'm not even sure if I'll ever need this but it sure would be nice that if down the road, Lumagen can upgrade this. If I've read correctly, thay have stated they will be able to upgrade, for a price, the Radiance to 1.3. True or false?


True...as reported by jrp here the unit will be ungradeable to 1.3


-Lip sync delay
It appears that the Radiance will never have this feature. I have yet to have this issue but you never know what will happen when I add another component in the chain. Can't receivers fix any lip sync problems? Who gets and what causes these issues?

Thanks for any help!


Any and all lip sync issues that I have experienced to date have been addressed by my processor...

HTH

Thanks Joel!

The Radiance is designed to be left powered on if you want to run it this way. There is even a menu option so that it automatically powers on when power is applied, such as after a power failure. To set this press "Menu, Other, OnOff Setup, Auto On, Ok, Turn on, Ok". Make sure that you "Save" this new setting.

The Radiance has a "Hotplug mode" that you can set so that the Tivo won't re-read the EDID in the Radiance and change output modes. To set hotplug, select the HDMI input that is connected to the Tivo. Then press "Menu, Input, HDMI Setup, Hotplug mode, Ok, Always On, Ok".

If you still have an issue with audio, post a description of your system, connections and input/output resolutions. We would like to duplicate this issue so we can see what is going on.

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

Randy,
I would love to leave my XD powered on, but I am concerned about it overheating. When I turned it off the other night, it was almost hot to the touch. I want to run it in a way that will maintain its reliability and performance. The inconvenience of turning the unit on or off is a non-issue for me, compared to performance and reliability. Afterall, I turn off most of my other components after each use (projector, BR, A/V Receiver.) Since I am more comfortable powering it off after each use, am I helping or hurting my chances to get the best long term performance and reliability, or is it truly an either/or situation?

Stan

Randy,
I would love to leave my XD powered on, but I am concerned about it overheating. When I turned it off the other night, it was almost hot to the touch. I want to run it in a way that will maintain its reliability and performance. The inconvenience of turning the unit on or off is a non-issue for me, compared to performance and reliability. Afterall, I turn off most of my other components after each use (projector, BR, A/V Receiver.) Since I am more comfortable powering it off after each use, am I helping or hurting my chances to get the best long term performance and reliability, or is it truly an either/or situation?

Stan

That doesn't sound right. During use, mine gets warm - at most.

One last question regarding the black faceplate.
Is it available yet, and if so is this something you have to order at purchase time or is it something you can order later on down the road and change it yourself?

One last question regarding the black faceplate.
Is it available yet, and if so is this something you have to order at purchase time or is it something you can order later on down the road and change it yourself?

Both, I think. It seems that there has been intermittent stock on the black faceplates - not sure if it is more readily available now. You can order it if they have it in stock, and it is quite easy to change if you want to do it later.

That doesn't sound right. During use, mine gets warm - at most.

I agree. The box's external temperature stays the same as the room temperature. The air coming out of the top vent is slightly warmer. The Radiance runs cooler than ALL my other equipment (SA 8300-HD, Pioneer HD1, PS3, Toshiba A20, Yamaha RX-V2700).

The other problem with keeping it on all the time is that with the XD in the path, I seem to lose HDMI audio randomly from the TiVo. Doubly annoying because putting the TiVo into Native mode is enough to make the XD stop sending audio now. I suspect I over-tweaked and will have to go to factory defaults!What's your display? I also have an audio problem with the TiVo Series 3 when the Radiance is outputting to a Pioneer Kuro plasma (6010FD). I've reported the problem to Lumagen but so far they haven't been able to reproduce it, though it's reproducible at will on my system.

Specifically, the problem is that, when the TiVo is in "native" mode and is connected through the Radiance to the Pioneer, HDMI audio is lost as soon as the source resolution changes, and isn't restored until the plasma is switched to another HDMI input and back (or powered on and off).

You can change channels at will as long as the resolution doesn't change, but tuning from (say) a 1080i channel to a 720p channel causes audio loss without fail.

If the TiVo is set to output a fixed resolution, audio is never lost when channels are changed.

I tried this with the Radiance outputting 1080i as well as 1080p, and the behavior was the same in both cases.

There's no issue when the TiVo is connected directly to the plasma.

This is a separate problem from the EDID issue (TiVo switching from Native to 1080i fixed) described earlier, and I'll try Randy's recommendation to force Hotplug On to see if it clears that up (thanks), but I'd like to see a fix for this one as well.

Yes. That's my audio problem entirely, except the audio is going into my Denon AVR-4806 with HDMI or COAX (not to a display). HDMI only input into the XD.

I thought I cleared it using the COAX instead of HDMI (I was blaming my 4806), but no, it still happens.

The relevant setup is like this:

TiVo -> XD (HDMI1 input)

XD (HDMI1 output, audio disabled) -> gefen splitter 1x2 -> Sharp LC52D62U (port1) & Optoma HD72 (shortly to be replaced by an Epson Pro 1080UB) (port2)

XD (HDMI2 output, video off) -> Denon AVR4806 (HDMI1 input)

XD (COAX1 output) -> Denon AVR4806 (COAX1 input)


(There's also, a PS3 into HDMI2, a PC into HDMI3 and a bunch of old DVD players on the component inputs of the XD)

In native video mode on the TiVo, if it involves a res change, audio goes away. Powercycling the XD "resolves" it (though the TiVo drops out of native mode, seperate issue). Yanking the HDMI cable between TiVo and XD also resolves it. I swear though every setting I tweak on the XD makes it worse, too :)

Chris.

Definitely sounds like the same problem. Your "yanking the HDMI cable" is the equivalent of my switching to another HDMI input on the display.

It should be easy for Lumagen to reproduce this with a Series 3 in Native Mode.

Chris and Ron --

have you tried to get coax or optical audio out of tivo into XD ? and then setup input on XD to take the audio off the coax/optical while the video come in via HDMI ?

that seems to work better for me on audio vs. audio in via HDMI from tivo ...... atleast i don't have to cycle the HDMI inputs on my projector as the tivo switches resolutions in native mode.

As the display, projector/tv/monitor, has the last say as to processing does an expensive, or even a less costly, processor/scaler really fix the final picture problems? Can a processor/scaler actually make a 720p display look like a top notch 1080P display?
Thanks!

Chris and Ron --

have you tried to get coax or optical audio out of tivo into XD ?

I'm sure it'll be rock solid like that. I have to juggle the optical inputs then, though, since the TiVo doesn't have coax out (at least, I don't think it does). The old cable box and the HTPC occupy the 2 optical inputs on the XD at the moment - but I just noticed said cable box has a coax out, so I can do some juggling a bit later I guess.

Nonetheless, HDMI audio from this TiVo into my old CII VP worked solidly, so it should be something that Lumagen can look into.

Chris.

I was just reviewing the description for NLS 4:3 to 16:9, and I can't wait until March for its implementation. I am so looking forward to viewing 4:3 material in 16:9 w/o the "fat people" look that occurs when watching 4:3 in 16:9 linear stretch. I hope it stays on schedule.

Can't you 'centre-cut,' or zoom and crop the 4:3 image (loosing strips from the top and bottom) to fit 16:9 AR, or is this not yet available? Fitting a 4:3 image to a 16:9 display, without distortion, is an important feature for me, so I hope this is possible.

I am the new user of Radiance XD processor.
I made hard decision between DVDO VP50Pro and Radiance.
My first impression is very good.
I especially appreciate quality of video deinterlacing – I had old DVD with Read Army Chorus and it was unwatchable with Oppo DV-981 internal deinterlacing. Combing was everywhere. Now Radiance deinterlace this material without any problem.

Second impression is quality of scaling – it can seems a little soft during first watching, but in fact it is lack of artificial edge enhancement and the picture is very detailed and has 3-D impact on my DLP projector.

Milimetr

I agree. The box's external temperature stays the same as the room temperature. The air coming out of the top vent is slightly warmer.

how abt the temperature of the power adapter ? I used to have a VP from another vendor and the adapter of that unit gets really hot. It was totally out of the question to have it on all the time. (That's why I was looking for a VP that has a power supply builtin like Crystalio)

So is it official the Radiance is meant to be left at ON all the time ?

how abt the temperature of the power adapter ? I used to have a VP from another vendor and the adapter of that unit gets really hot. It was totally out of the question to have it on all the time. (That's why I was looking for a VP that has a power supply builtin like Crystalio)

So is it official the Radiance is meant to be left at ON all the time ?

My adapter is only slightly warmer than the air coming out of the Radiance vent. Whether you leave it on all the time is up to the user. The Lumagen folks say they leave theirs on all the time. I generally do as well unless it won't be used for a number of days.

how abt the temperature of the power adapter ? I used to have a VP from another vendor and the adapter of that unit gets really hot. It was totally out of the question to have it on all the time. (That's why I was looking for a VP that has a power supply builtin like Crystalio)

So is it official the Radiance is meant to be left at ON all the time ?

So I left my Radiance on overnight and checked the temp this morning. The unit was at room temp, so I guess one of two things is true:
1) the unit heats up when in actual operation, and cools down when left on and not processing; or
2) the heat I felt was actually coming from another device in my A/V cabinet.

In any event, and upon second consideration, the heat was just over the vents, and probably well within operating parameters.

That makes sense. Mine doesn't heat up much at all from what I have seen.

I have a question on 2.35 letterboxed non-anamorph titles. I can't seem to make them fill the screen. My setup is a 2.4 screen with an ISCO2.

Is there something I'm missing? How do I expand the image?

My adapter is only slightly warmer than the air coming out of the Radiance vent. Whether you leave it on all the time is up to the user. The Lumagen folks say they leave theirs on all the time. I generally do as well unless it won't be used for a number of days.Have a look also at the Radiance FAQ here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=909924) for more details.

Hi Phil,

Is your projector, with the anamorphic lens, producing a 2.35 or 2.40 image? My guess is that you are projecting a 2.35 image on a 2.40 screen in which case there will be small black bars on each side.

You can setup your projector and anamorphic lens to overscan the image slightly at the top and bottom of the 2.40 screen so that a 2.35 image fills the screen horizontally.

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

I just hooked up my new Epson Pro 1080UB to the XD, set the PS3 for 24fps out, the XD for 24fps and the Epson for 2:2 pulldown and life is bliss. :) We (mommy, toddler, daddy) just thoroughly enjoyed Meet the Robinsons without judder.

Of course, I've not yet worked out how to get the XD back into 60fps out, but I'll sort that out tomorrow :)

Chris.

what is the "native" encoding for HD and SD video content coming through a Tivo series 3 ? i notice that depending on how i set the input videoEDID i can get the Tivo to output either YCrCb 4:2:2 or YCrCb 4:4:4 or RGB into the Radiance over HDMI. i presume that the tivo is transcoding between these formats

should i set it to output YCrCb to get the Tivo to do no transcoding and let the radiance pick up all the transcoding ? I am outputing 1080p RGB to the front projector.

what is the "native" encoding for HD and SD video content coming through a Tivo series 3 ? i notice that depending on how i set the input videoEDID i can get the Tivo to output either YCrCb 4:2:2 or YCrCb 4:4:4 or RGB into the Radiance over HDMI. i presume that the tivo is transcoding between these formats

should i set it to output YCrCb to get the Tivo to do no transcoding and let the radiance pick up all the transcoding ? I am outputing 1080p RGB to the front projector.

YCrCb is what's going to be in the MPEG streams off the wire afaik. My TiVo started sending RGB today. I'm scared to touch any settings now in case it stops working again :) I've had such mixed luck with the thing. (It's got some serious motion judder going on today too, sometimes)

Chris.

After a few days of anxious waiting, I should be the proud owner of a RadianceXD beta courtesy of AVS. This is my first AVS purchase, and I must say I'm very impressed with their professionalism.

I will be driving a Sony G70Q 8" CRT projector with Moome's (supposedly HDCP compliant) DVI card. I have a Monoprice HDMI - DVI cable run and ready.

I was wondering whether anyone else has a similar setup and would like to offer recommendations, such as optimum output resolution for this setup.

Cheers, Ian

Ian,

Congratulations. I don't have your PJ but from my Barco 1208 8" CRT days you would probably be best at 720p resolution. If you google there used to be a crt comparison chart that listed the highest resolution by model or take a look at the CRT section of this forum for advice.

Best regards,
David

as i understand 1080p/24fps output is not a current option. what are people who got the radianceXD doing currently to feed this to their displays?

as i understand 1080p/24fps output is not a current option. what are people who got the radianceXD doing currently to feed this to their displays?
1080/24p output is available in the latest firmware, and so is 1080/24sf. Right now it's only available for 24p input sources, but 1080i and 480i IVTC film content will be enabled down the line.

what are people who got the radianceXD doing currently to feed this to their displays?

I currently use 1080p60 into an RS1 with no issues at all. I am awaiting the new firmware image to stabilize a bit before trying out p24.

Ian, I don't have your setup, but I'd sure like to see your's... Haven't talked to you in a while. Hope all is going well.

Viper - yes, way too long. We should have a meet up once the new toy is in play!

Cheers, Ian

For anybody contemplating it...GET THE BLACK FACEPLATE...installed mine last night (with no problems other than a screw that was so tight I needed a tork wrench to get it off) and she is LOOKING SWEET...

The only thing left to do is to get SA to provide a black version of the SA 8300 PVR and we will be all good to go!

Joelc. Is it true that the black faceplate improves your PQ? My Radiance sits in a closet and its operated remotely by IR given that there are no controls on it other than an on/off switch. So I see no reason to switch other than if the black face plate improves PQ or sound quality. :)

Joelc. Is it true that the black faceplate improves your PQ? My Radiance sits in a closet and its operated remotely by IR given that there are no controls on it other than an on/off switch. So I see no reason to switch other than if the black face plate improves PQ or sound quality. :)

:p

Joelc. Is it true that the black faceplate improves your PQ? My Radiance sits in a closet and its operated remotely by IR given that there are no controls on it other than an on/off switch. So I see no reason to switch other than if the black face plate improves PQ or sound quality. :)

I also replaced the front plate on my unit recently and I can happily report a 10-fold increase in PQ, it fixes all lip-sync issues and now runs at least 5 degrees cooler. My sub now also gives a powerful response at below it's previous low end of 28Hz. Moreover, all my HDCP issues are history and it even helped to fix a power cut last week. My wine and beer stocks automatically refill and I've discovered that, by simply replacing the front plate for a black one, my bank balance no longer drops at such an alarming rate.

I also put the rack ears on the thing, and that promises to reduce my tax burden by 2 or 3 digits and change the next 200 of my toddlers' diapers.

Amazing, hey? :)

(And yes, black looks cool. Wife before: "What's that silver thing? How much did it cost?" Wife after: "That looks nicer! It matches all the other ones now!")

Chris.

Wife before: "What's that silver thing? How much did it cost?" Wife after: "That looks nicer! It matches all the other ones now!")

Chris.

Priceless!

She doesn't go into my equipment closet. But if she did and saw the new color box she would think I purchased something else. Actually I just ordered a new Radiance because I sent my to a friend to try and he ended up buying and keeping mine rather than shipping it back to me. To stay within forum rules one small word in the previous sentence is not the correct word.

I also replaced the front plate on my unit recently and I can happily report a 10-fold increase in PQ, it fixes all lip-sync issues and now runs at least 5 degrees cooler. My sub now also gives a powerful response at below it's previous low end of 28Hz. Moreover, all my HDCP issues are history and it even helped to fix a power cut last week. My wine and beer stocks automatically refill and I've discovered that, by simply replacing the front plate for a black one, my bank balance no longer drops at such an alarming rate.

I also put the rack ears on the thing, and that promises to reduce my tax burden by 2 or 3 digits and change the next 200 of my toddlers' diapers.

Amazing, hey? :)

(And yes, black looks cool. Wife before: "What's that silver thing? How much did it cost?" Wife after: "That looks nicer! It matches all the other ones now!")

Chris.

You forgot one thing...it now amazingly accepts HDMI 1.3 bitstream flawlessly and -- rumour has it -- is also compliant with DEEP COLOUR and xyVCC colour space...AMAZING UPGRADE I must say!!!

Those features are slated for once the software in the front plate comes out of beta. ;)

Chris.

In case people didn't catch it, check out Jim's comments about colour space processing (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13100254#post13100254) on the XD. As I recall this his answer to a question generated by a discussion of the coming JVC CMS device for the RS1/RS2 which said that the JVC would gamma correct the video before processing.

I can't get my RGBHV to work for some reason. I have the green plugged into the Y input of input 10 while the blue is into Pb and the red is into Pr. The V and H are into inputs 17 and 18.

I can put 10 in YUV mode and it will show as a pink screen at 480p but when I switch to RGBHV the screen goes blank. It will even show something in SCART but nothing in RGBHV. I swapped H and V just to make sure I didn't have them reversed, but to no avail.

I brought the computer up in safe mode which is 640x480 so I'm not going out of range by any means.

Is there something I've missed?

Thanks

Hi Phil,

It looks like you have everything connected correctly. Unfortunately we haven't implemented "RGBHV". It's on the list and should be added sometime in the next 3 to 6 weeks. It was an oversight that we left the "RGBHV" choice in the menu.

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

In case people didn't catch it, check out Jim's comments about colour space processing (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13100254#post13100254) on the XD. As I recall this his answer to a question generated by a discussion of the coming JVC CMS device for the RS1/RS2 which said that the JVC would gamma correct the video before processing.

Thanks! I emailed Jim about that one and I was wondering if/when he would answer. I would have totally missed that.

I can't get my RGBHV to work for some reason. I have the green plugged into the Y input of input 10 while the blue is into Pb and the red is into Pr. The V and H are into inputs 17 and 18.

I can put 10 in YUV mode and it will show as a pink screen at 480p but when I switch to RGBHV the screen goes blank. It will even show something in SCART but nothing in RGBHV. I swapped H and V just to make sure I didn't have them reversed, but to no avail.

I brought the computer up in safe mode which is 640x480 so I'm not going out of range by any means.

Is there something I've missed?

ThanksJust check with Lumagen, but I don't think RGBHV has been implemented yet. RGBcvS (SCART) has been though.

Edit: Looks like Randy confirmed my suspicions :).

Thanks! I emailed Jim about that one and I was wondering if/when he would answer. I would have totally missed that.

Here's the post I did on CMS that is being refered to. ===================================

I received an email that we were asked if our CMS is in "linear color space", but I can't seem to find it as I have not been following this thread. So, I'll just answer it in general terms.

First, I should point out that our CMS is an RGB color cube with defined points of R, G, B, C, M, Y, White, plus the other 10 points in our 11 point grayscale calibration (i.e. other than 100% white which should now be done in the CMS command). The reason I point this out is that we interpolate from the gray diagonal of the color cube to cube corner which is not as suseptable to non-linear gamma as a matrix approach, or when CMS is attempted in HLS color space.

Still linear gamma is prefered and will provide more accurate results.

Our CMS will be going to a linear color space in the near future. One of the reasons I am having people calibrate with 100% points is that these points are not affected by this change and so calibrations will continue to be valid after this enhancement is complete.

So, how important is linear color space in reality? People seem very happy with the results we are generating already, so I think that while the non-linear color space gives a different interpolation than linear color, it is pretty close for important regions of the color cube given our 17 color points and how we interpolate. However, I think people will see even more of an improvement using our CMS than they do now after we add this enhancement.

Randy,

Thanks for the heads up! Looking forward to RGBHV so I can use my HTPC again.

One thing I noticed on using 23.xx throughout, (which works great by the way!), that when I switch back to satellite for instance it displays the message warning about 23.xx out on non 23.xx source.

Could that be changed such that it will automatically revert to whatever the source is? So for DVD, satellite, etc. it would do 59.xx while for BlueRay/HD_DVD it would do 23.xx.

Thanks!