I'm still unclear on something pertaining to the comparison between A1 and A2....
If A2 is 1.2a HDMI, then what was A1? Is it 1.1 or 1.2? What would be the differences if any in PQ?

I don't agree with you on this. Unless you have an HDMI capable receiver or audio processor, the A2 is a significant downgrade compared to the A1. The 3 titles I watched using TrueHD were just amazing. You will not get this with the A2. I have the impression people will run to get an A1 while it is available. The slow boot is nothing compare to loosing TrueHD and who knows DTS-MA down the road.

I like good audio, but existing DTS and AC3 processing on my receiver are already above the required bar for me. Try as I might, I have not been able to audibly tell the difference between movies in DTS or AC3, or for that matter between LPCM stereo and 384kbps DD stereo for concert DVDs. In fact, when I listen to the eagles hell freezes over, I always picked the DTS over the LPCM.

This TrueHD thing is kind of an alien concept to me meaning I don't find it useful. It was hard enough to setup the wiring behind the wall on my two movie rooms for 5.1 speakers, all the AV switching (except the HDMI and DVI connections ) are done by the receivers. Meaning, I'm not going to put another two speakers in there for this TrueHD thing (or whatever it needs) because the AC3 and DTS are performing more than adequately for me.

Of course, this is just my opinion and you probably have better ears than I do.

I'm still unclear on something pertaining to the comparison between A1 and A2....
If A2 is 1.2a HDMI, then what was A1? Is it 1.1 or 1.2? What would be the differences if any in PQ?

Pretty certain the PQ impact is zero. Perhaps an HDMI guru will chime in.

-- Trevor

PS. The PQ impact with 1.3 will also be zero, unless you eventually purchase a display device that supports it. I'm presuming the additional color depth 1.3 supports doesn't require a change to the titles themselves.

Engadget has some photos and info.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/14/toshiba-brings-2nd-gen-hd-dvd-action-to-the-us/

Weird that the XA2 still supports S-video and particularly composite video.

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but it seems to me that the biggest question is, do the new players have region coding?

[QUOTE=GoldenBoy]Here's an article from iTWire about the new Toshibas, I don't know if it adds much information, but here it is anyway ;) :

"Both players will also include out-of-the-box support for the Dolby TruHD 5.1 audio format — a feature that was also recently added to the first-generation players through a firmware update."QUOTE]

How can the A2 "support" Dolby TruHD without analog outputs?

I'm surprised there is no word yet whether the HD-A1 and HD-A2 share the same video chipset.

Weird that the XA2 still supports S-video and particularly composite video.

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but it seems to me that the biggest question is, do the new players have region coding?

One may need a DVD player, intends to buy an HDTV later, but wishes to make the DVD player purchase one that will last a few years. With Composite and S-Video, player can be used for standard DVD playback and a SD TV or an EDTV can be used.

In addition, with these additional inputs, one can bring the player in another room, connect the RJ45 to a cable modem for LAN connection and update on line while using a small portable TV like a 13" or 15 " Sharp Aquos LCD.

As Region Free codes, that concerns the HD DVD, I believe, and not the player.

I don't want you to mislead someone since most of your post was accurate, but I felt I needed to post this to comment on your opinion on DD+ and DDTHD.

...until ddthd decoding was added to the g1 players, i had been using the s/pdif output and was loving it, even for dd+ audio...and to be honest, i'm not sure i hear the difference using the analogs and playing the full ddthd tracks as opposed to dd+

My testing proved otherwise. There was a night and day difference between the DD+ and TrueHD tracks (using Training Day to test). Midrange was drastically improved, highs were better, and bass was tightened. Dialog was the most obvious, but the surrounds are more clear and thus the soundtrack has more direction.

I have The Perfect Storm and Troy in my Netflix que and personally I can't wait to hear the TrueHD soundtracks on those movies!

How can the A2 "support" Dolby TruHD without analog outputs?
HDMI: multichannel PCM
SPDIF: multichannel PCM -> DTS

[QUOTE=GoldenBoy]Here's an article from iTWire about the new Toshibas, I don't know if it adds much information, but here it is anyway ;) :

"Both players will also include out-of-the-box support for the Dolby TruHD 5.1 audio format — a feature that was also recently added to the first-generation players through a firmware update."QUOTE]

How can the A2 "support" Dolby TruHD without analog outputs?

Via HDMI, if the owner has an a/v with HDMI inputs/output. See page 59 of the HD-A1 User Manual... no change for HDMI.

I have to admit I am very surprised by all of this.

So basically if I want to be able to listen to TrueHD I have to buy an A1 or wair until Dec/Jan to get an XA2?

The A2 is not fully a next gen player if it does not allow you to play TrueHD. For that reason the A2 is a serious leap back. Anyone who buys that unit is ill informed, and setting themself up or an almost garaunteed future upgrade.

I was waiting on te G2 players before I purchase, but now I guess ill get the A1. By the time the XA2 comes who needs Component out? recievers with 1.3 will be only a few months away at that point.

Is it me or is the smartest thing to do if you want to experience the full next gen inculding video and audio is to get the A1 and then wait until 1.3 is available in both DVD players and processsors?

CRT projectors that are capable of 1080p don't have internal de-interlacing capabilities. The XA2 may be of some benefit to those of us that have them.

I understand that and agree with you. However, the number of 1080p CRT projector owners is a very small percentage of users. The "1080p problem" has been made out to be some kind of major inferiority that affects everyone buying HD-DVD.

[QUOTE=jrusnak]

Via HDMI, if the owner has an a/v with HDMI inputs/output. See page 59 of the HD-A1 User Manual... no change for HDMI.

(Smacking my head!) Right! Guess I need more coffee. And without a receiver with HDMI, everyone else is SOL.

I have to admit I am very surprised by all of this.

So basically if I want to be able to listen to TrueHD I have to buy an A1 or wair until Dec/Jan to get an XA2?

The A2 is not fully a next gen player if it does not allow you to play TrueHD. For that reason the A2 is a serious leap back. Anyone who buys that unit is ill informed, and setting themself up or an almost garaunteed future upgrade.

I was waiting on te G2 players before I purchase, but now I guess ill get the A1. By the time the XA2 comes who needs Component out? recievers with 1.3 will be only a few months away at that point.

Is it me or is the smarted thing to do if you want to experience the full next gen inculding video and audio is to get the A1 and then wait until 1.3 is available in both DVD players and processsors?

The A2 will let you play TrueHD no problem, you just have to have a receiver that can get the signal via HDMI.

I don't want you to mislead someone since most of your post was accurate, but I felt I needed to post this to comment on your opinion on DD+ and DDTHD.



My testing proved otherwise. There was a night and day difference between the DD+ and TrueHD tracks (using Training Day to test). Midrange was drastically improved, highs were better, and bass was tightened. Dialog was the most obvious, but the surrounds are more clear and thus the soundtrack has more direction.

I have The Perfect Storm and Troy in my Netflix que and personally I can't wait to hear the TrueHD soundtracks on those movies!

yes, i wanted to emphasize that *I* didn't necessarily hear a difference but i am limited to a/b comparisons on the fly of POTO...

i think my initial post was also inaccurate in that the difference i couldn't really hear was between dd+ and ddthd BOTH over the analogs but there was definitely a difference between dd+/ddthd over analog and dd+/ddthd->reencoded dts over s/pdif.

my sample was limited and i didn't mean to imply there is no difference and people should ignore it, my point was only that i didn't think the a2 lacking analog outs was a big deal...ymmv

The A2 will let you play TrueHD no problem, you just have to have a receiver that can get the signal via HDMI.


Anyone heard of a reciever like this? I havent even heard of one being launched until the new year.

Also my mistake. i was under the impresion the HDMI 1.1 or 1.2 could not transwer both 1080i/p and 5.1 TrueHD,

Anyone heard of a reciever like this? I havent even heard of one being launched until the new year.

Also my mistake. i was under the impresion the HDMI 1.1 or 1.2 could not transwer both 1080i/p and 5.1 TrueHD,

This is a common misconception about HDMI. People think you need HDMI 1.3 for the bandwidth to make this possible, which is not the case.

I like good audio, but existing DTS and AC3 processing on my receiver are already above the required bar for me. Try as I might, I have not been able to audibly tell the difference between movies in DTS or AC3, or for that matter between LPCM stereo and 384kbps DD stereo for concert DVDs. In fact, when I listen to the eagles hell freezes over, I always picked the DTS over the LPCM.

This TrueHD thing is kind of an alien concept to me meaning I don't find it useful. It was hard enough to setup the wiring behind the wall on my two movie rooms for 5.1 speakers, all the AV switching (except the HDMI and DVI connections ) are done by the receivers. Meaning, I'm not going to put another two speakers in there for this TrueHD thing (or whatever it needs) because the AC3 and DTS are performing more than adequately for me.

Of course, this is just my opinion and you probably have better ears than I do.

That's not a bad thing, though. While people who have better ears go out to buy HDMI receivers or pre-processors to decode the new formats, there are people who can't tell a difference and can spend their home theater money elsewhere.

I'm hoping that we can find out if 5.1 DTS-HD or even DTS-MA will eventually make it's way to the Toshibas; either G1 or G2 players.

The A2 will let you play TrueHD no problem, you just have to have a receiver that can get the signal via HDMI.

Right. So (aside from the X1), unless they've bought a receiver in the past year or two, most consumers now have the choice of spending either $1000 for the XA2 or $1000 for a new receiver. Way to go, Toshiba!

.....This is getting to be an expensive hobby.

Right now I have a 65" CRT w/DVI.

That means that I can't upgrade to 2.0 because I get black crush. That also means no TrueHD for me until maybe 2.1 or 2.2.

Having a CRT is great except convergence is always itching at the back of your brain. And it's only capable of 1080i.

For these reasons I've been considering upgrading to either a DLP or SXRD, 1080p of course. Although I believe I can probably sell my CRT for around $1500.00, that's still a heck of an investment. And of course, none of these TVs even have HDMI 1.3 yet.

So if I get the XA2 I'll have 1080p output, which I'm not sure has actually been proven to even be of benefit if you have a 1080p HDTV, and some other nice bells and whistles, but for a cool grand.

What's the deal with this DTS MA core only crap? How would that be better than regular DTS?

I think I just need to sit this one out for about a year. I'm happy with my set-up, I just need to suppress the compulsion to upgrade.

Right. So (aside from the X1), unless they've bought a receiver in the past year or two, most consumers now have the choice of spending either $1000 for the XA2 or $1000 for a new receiver. Way to go, Toshiba!

Everyone with some deductive capabilities realized long ago that the A1 was an unbelievable value at its $500 price point (probably being sold for several hundred dollars less than it cost Toshiba to produce). That's less than most high quality G1 DVD players cost 10 years ago.

The fact that there are A1s available at or under $400 should make anyone who has been waffling about an HD-DVD player pull the trigger immediately. :cool:

Everyone with some deductive capabilities realized long ago that the A1 was an unbelievable value at its $500 price point (probably being sold for several hundred dollars less than it cost Toshiba to produce). That's less than most high quality G1 DVD players cost 10 years ago.

The fact that there are A1s available at or under $400 should make anyone who has been waffling about an HD-DVD player pull the trigger immediately. :cool:

This is exactly how I feel. Of course you have to hope that you don't get one of the players that skips/freezes a lot. But all things considered, it is a fantastic buy for the best possible PQ.

Weird that the XA2 still supports S-video and particularly composite video.

Personally, I'm glad those outputs are retained. Just don't see any real advantage to discarding the flexibility they cheaply provide.

-- Trevor

Everyone with some deductive capabilities realized long ago that the A1 was an unbelievable value at its $500 price point (probably being sold for several hundred dollars less than it cost Toshiba to produce). That's less than most high quality G1 DVD players cost 10 years ago.

The fact that there are A1s available at or under $400 should make anyone who has been waffling about an HD-DVD player pull the trigger immediately. :cool:

Yes, but reportedly with a bad remote, slow start-ups, no PAUSE/MEMORY, and somereported glitches. My hope was that the remote and boot times would be addressed with the G2 units (which they apparently were) but not the elimination of the important features.

I'm in the market for a new DVD player. If I already have a newer AVR (Pio 84) that accepts HDMI (and 5.1 analog as well), and my TV is not 1080p (Pio 6071), is there any reason to not get the A2 over the A1. Also what would I'd be getting with the XA2 that I would see/hear a difference in over the A2/A1. Lastly, Robert, I don't have a A1/XA1 to compare against with regards to faster start-up/boot times. So, from turning on the On button and then inserting a disc, how long did the new players actually take. Thanks.

[QUOTE=GoldenBoy]Here's an article from iTWire about the new Toshibas, I don't know if it adds much information, but here it is anyway ;) :

"Both players will also include out-of-the-box support for the Dolby TruHD 5.1 audio format — a feature that was also recently added to the first-generation players through a firmware update."QUOTE]

How can the A2 "support" Dolby TruHD without analog outputs?

Two ways:

1) HDMI
2) maxbitrate S/PDIF

-- Trevor

Anyone heard of a reciever like this? I havent even heard of one being launched until the new year.

Also my mistake. i was under the impresion the HDMI 1.1 or 1.2 could not transwer both 1080i/p and 5.1 TrueHD,


This receiver;
http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/14/sony-reveals-new-3200es-5200es-1080p-a-v-receivers/ (http://http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/14/sony-reveals-new-3200es-5200es-1080p-a-v-receivers/)

I don't want you to mislead someone since most of your post was accurate, but I felt I needed to post this to comment on your opinion on DD+ and DDTHD.



My testing proved otherwise. There was a night and day difference between the DD+ and TrueHD tracks (using Training Day to test). Midrange was drastically improved, highs were better, and bass was tightened. Dialog was the most obvious, but the surrounds are more clear and thus the soundtrack has more direction.

I have The Perfect Storm and Troy in my Netflix que and personally I can't wait to hear the TrueHD soundtracks on those movies!

Personal experiences will always vary. It depends heavily on the system components and also the listener themselves.

-- Trevor

[QUOTE=jrusnak]

Two ways:

1) HDMI
2) maxbitrate S/PDIF

-- Trevor

TrueHD is a lossless format as you know. Maxbitrate S/PDIF isnt going to give you true TrueHD, just a downconverted version...right?

I have to admit I am very surprised by all of this.

So basically if I want to be able to listen to TrueHD I have to buy an A1 or wair until Dec/Jan to get an XA2?

The A2 is not fully a next gen player if it does not allow you to play TrueHD. For that reason the A2 is a serious leap back. Anyone who buys that unit is ill informed, and setting themself up or an almost garaunteed future upgrade.

I was waiting on te G2 players before I purchase, but now I guess ill get the A1. By the time the XA2 comes who needs Component out? recievers with 1.3 will be only a few months away at that point.

Is it me or is the smartest thing to do if you want to experience the full next gen inculding video and audio is to get the A1 and then wait until 1.3 is available in both DVD players and processsors?

HDMI for full bit rate, S/PDIF for max bitrate legacy (definite step up from standard DVD).

-- Trevor

I like good audio, but existing DTS and AC3 processing on my receiver are already above the required bar for me. Try as I might, I have not been able to audibly tell the difference between movies in DTS or AC3, or for that matter between LPCM stereo and 384kbps DD stereo for concert DVDs. In fact, when I listen to the eagles hell freezes over, I always picked the DTS over the LPCM.

This TrueHD thing is kind of an alien concept to me meaning I don't find it useful. It was hard enough to setup the wiring behind the wall on my two movie rooms for 5.1 speakers, all the AV switching (except the HDMI and DVI connections ) are done by the receivers. Meaning, I'm not going to put another two speakers in there for this TrueHD thing (or whatever it needs) because the AC3 and DTS are performing more than adequately for me.

Of course, this is just my opinion and you probably have better ears than I do.

We just got different level audio requirements.

[QUOTE=GoldenBoy]Here's an article from iTWire about the new Toshibas, I don't know if it adds much information, but here it is anyway ;) :

"Both players will also include out-of-the-box support for the Dolby TruHD 5.1 audio format — a feature that was also recently added to the first-generation players through a firmware update."QUOTE]

How can the A2 "support" Dolby TruHD without analog outputs?

TrueHD is decoded and then sent over HDMI in PCM format.

Anyone heard of a reciever like this? I havent even heard of one being launched until the new year.

Also my mistake. i was under the impresion the HDMI 1.1 or 1.2 could not transwer both 1080i/p and 5.1 TrueHD,

They don't support native TrueHD meanwhile the player is decoding TrueHD convert that to high bit rate PCM format that could sent over HDMI 1.1 and 1.2.

Yes, but reportedly with a bad remote, slow start-ups, no PAUSE/MEMORY, and some reported glitches. My hope was that the remote and boot times would be addressed with the G2 units (which they apparently were) but not the elimination of the important features.

Your best bet would be to wait for the cheap China made HD DVD players and see if they have the right features and price for you. Sigma Designs or Boardcom SoC based. They may still need to use Sanyo's OPU with the blue laser diode sourced by Sanyo (diff manu technique than Nichia/Sony's). The big question is when such players will be available?

Bob

Yes, but reportedly with a bad remote, slow start-ups, no PAUSE/MEMORY, and somereported glitches. My hope was that the remote and boot times would be addressed with the G2 units (which they apparently were) but not the elimination of the important features.

In a world where these boxes sell for $1000, you can't expect everything for $500. Just because Toshiba gave the early adopters some bonuses for taking the G1 risks, doesn't mean they've turned into a charity organization. Go for whichever box best fits your needs and be glad you have choices.

-- Trevor

[QUOTE=TrevorS]

TrueHD is a lossless format as you know. Maxbitrate S/PDIF isnt going to give you true TrueHD, just a downconverted version...right?

Absolutely right, however there is still a material advantage. The True-HD transcode will deliver the maximum bitrate via S/PDIF, easily leaving the normal SD-DVD audio in the dust.

-- Trevor

I have to admit I am very surprised by all of this.

So basically if I want to be able to listen to TrueHD I have to buy an A1 or wair until Dec/Jan to get an XA2?

The A2 is not fully a next gen player if it does not allow you to play TrueHD. For that reason the A2 is a serious leap back. Anyone who buys that unit is ill informed, and setting themself up or an almost garaunteed future upgrade.

I was waiting on te G2 players before I purchase, but now I guess ill get the A1. By the time the XA2 comes who needs Component out? recievers with 1.3 will be only a few months away at that point.

Is it me or is the smartest thing to do if you want to experience the full next gen inculding video and audio is to get the A1 and then wait until 1.3 is available in both DVD players and processsors?
I think I agree. I just got a new 56" 1086p Sammy for my wife's living room setup with just a center and two side speakers. New Pioneer receiver. Not a lot of room to put in the A1.

Downstairs, I have a 4-year-old Toshiba 65" CRT that is just fine (Yes, of course, the new Sammy looks better now). I have DVI in. I have a full stereo setup with good speakers but an older receiver. Lots of component space.

My question is: It would seem to me to make more sense to go with the first generation (while they're still here!) and hold off on a 2nd or 3rd gen machine for a while? I don't think they'd be as compatible with my "movie room" setup downstairs.

What say you, friends?

.....This is getting to be an expensive hobby.

Right now I have a 65" CRT w/DVI.

That means that I can't upgrade to 2.0 because I get black crush. That also means no TrueHD for me until maybe 2.1 or 2.2.

I use an HDMI/DVI cable from the HD-A1 to my 57" CRT RPTV. No problems with blacks and 2.0 gives me DD TrueHD in 5.1 over multichannel analogs.

Having a CRT is great except convergence is always itching at the back of your brain. And it's only capable of 1080i.

For these reasons I've been considering upgrading to either a DLP or SXRD, 1080p of course. Although I believe I can probably sell my CRT for around $1500.00, that's still a heck of an investment. And of course, none of these TVs even have HDMI 1.3 yet.

I don't know what make your TV is... I have no convergence problem, the 1080i image is as good as any and will be matched by the new SED displays. See:
http://www.d200digitalcamera.com/sed-hdtv.html

...
What's the deal with this DTS MA core only crap? How would that be better than regular DTS?...


With upgrade version 2.0 DTS-HD remains core only. But the bitrate is much higher than regular DTS via digital SPDIF... not even close in quality of sound to DTS-HD core. Consider Core as near lossless with a small amount of loss and one would need to be an expert to tell the difference with DTS-HD Master.

Denver is kicking Indy's butt for CEDIA. They had a registration desk at the airport! That's where I printed out my badge.
They are using 310,000 sf of space at the Convention Center...30% more than in Indy. If you need to drive, parking is relative breeze.

EricThanks very much for that info.

I'm in the market for a new DVD player. If I already have a newer AVR (Pio 84) that accepts HDMI (and 5.1 analog as well), and my TV is not 1080p (Pio 6071), is there any reason to not get the A2 over the A1. Also what would I'd be getting with the XA2 that I would see/hear a difference in over the A2/A1.

It appears that the XA2 would be the model to shoot for, as the A2 seems to be sub-par...

No Analog Outs, No 1080p, No DTS-HD support, no HDMI 1.3 - though all things you could live without

Though, if you get the cheaper version now, that makes upgrading to a G3 model a bit more palatable later (;

With upgrade version 2.0 DTS-HD remains core only. But the bitrate is much higher than regular DTS via digital SPDIF... not even close in quality of sound to DTS-HD core. Consider Core as near lossless with a small amount of loss and one would need to be an expert to tell the difference with DTS-HD Master.

Do you have a source for info that the new firmware enables DTS-HD High Resolution with its 3Mbps max for HD DVD format? DTS-HD Encore just supports 1509kbs and I thought that was the "core"?

Bob

I'm in the market for a new DVD player. If I already have a newer AVR (Pio 84) that accepts HDMI (and 5.1 analog as well), and my TV is not 1080p (Pio 6071), is there any reason to not get the A2 over the A1. Also what would I'd be getting with the XA2 that I would see/hear a difference in over the A2/A1. Lastly, Robert, I don't have a A1/XA1 to compare against with regards to faster start-up/boot times. So, from turning on the On button and then inserting a disc, how long did the new players actually take. Thanks.
We really don't know if the A2 is better than the A1. It will have faster loading times, but thats about all, and the ones at the show are prototypes, so we don't really know how much faster they'll be. Right now, I don't see any advantage of the A2 over the A1, except for maybe size, and a better remote. The XA2 is supposed to be the best Tosh put out, with better proccessors, and at twice the price.
You have to decide what your priorities are.
J

No we are authorized on-line approved for JVC and Mits as well, but I have not yet put them on my site. In our store we sell Sony, Pioneer and Samsung, but we are not web approved on for these brands. Our relationship with Toshiba is our closest and highest volume.

I just re-designed my site design and have not completed all of the accessories and HDTVs. So it's a work in progress.

-Robert


Ok.. thanks. Was also wondering if you new were these things were going to be made. Are the HD-A2's going to be outsourced to ORION in tawain like toshiba's plasmas are? Was thinking of returning my D1 because I don't like the slow load times but I have to admit the HD-A2 looks like its flimsy. Please try to find out were the HD-A2's will be made because on only have about 15 days left to return my D1.

The A2 is not fully a next gen player if it does not allow you to play TrueHD. For that reason the A2 is a serious leap back. Anyone who buys that unit is ill informed, and setting themself up or an almost garaunteed future upgrade. The A2 decodes and transports TrueHD. In this respect it really is a next gen player in that it assumes that you are a next gen buyer and have HDMI audio capability.

It appears that the XA2 would be the model to shoot for, as the A2 seems to be sub-par...

No Analog Outs, No 1080p, No DTS-HD support, no HDMI 1.3 - though all things you could live without

Though, if you get the cheaper version now, that makes upgrading to a G3 model a bit more palatable later (;


Analog outs, 1080p, and 1.3 is not important to the guy who posted the question.
The A2 would be perfect for him.

Plus, purchasing both the A2 and next year's A3 will still probably be cheaper than purchasing the XA2 alone.

Analog outs, 1080p, and 1.3 is not important to the guy who posted the question.
The A2 would be perfect for him.

Plus, purchasing both the A2 and next year's A3 will still probably be cheaper than purchasing the XA2 alone.

Or get the A1, which is still the cheapest option and a 'proven' product.

So it seems that:


HD DVD discs store 1080p24 content natively
My soon-to-be purchaed Sony Pearl can accept 1080p24 and dispaly it in an even multiple of that frame rate (96 fps reported)
$500 2nd-Gen Toshiba will only pass 1080i (thus inducing a 3:2 cadence in the interlaced stream)
The Pearl reportedly will NOT IVT a 60i signal for judder free playback


The end result is it looks like I get to shell out an xtra $500 for getting the native frame rate on the disc!!!

sigh.

So close, yet so far. 1080p24 should have been standard on both models. With the reports that SoC chips are capable of passing the native framerate, there is no excuse for having to pay MORE money to do LESS processing.

Robert....
Maybe I'm the only guy here that uses a two speaker setup near the TV (42" Plasma in a small upstairs room), but does the HD-A2 have a pair of good old fashoned 2 channel stereo analog audio output jacks like the A1?
I need to run them into the TV's 2 channel stereo RCA audio input jacks (using the TV's built in 5W+5W internal amp) to power my bookshelf speakers.
Thanks very much..... Rob

Robert,

Any word on whether the A2 is fanless? Thanks.

All this angst about the feature set changes from the A1 to the A2 is pretty silly. Life is full of choices, so now, all of you who have been sitting on the fence get to make a decision.

Simply prioritize your needs. If 5.1 analog outputs is most important (it would be to me) I would run out and buy one of the A1's that are still around. There are some great deals out there. As I have said in the past, I believed the 1st generation players would be the gold standard in these units. The A1 seems to be an even better value now than it was two days ago. The XA2 adds some excellent features. It is up to the individual consumer to make that choice or stay with the XA1 for several hundred dollars less.

For the user that prefers faster load time, and will potentially upgrade to a compatible receiver to be able to take advantage of the superior sound capability, it pays to get the A2. Given the feature differences, it will probably allow Toshiba some flexibility on pricing in the future, if the market dictates a change.

Consumers who get in to the HD-DVD market at a later date will probably not be as informed about the A1\XA1 as we are, and will be very satisfied with the unit they buy. They will buy what ever is available at that time. These changes are not a problem in the greater part of the market, only to those of us who have been following this since the beginning.

The A2 still figures to be an excellent player. The choice is up to you.

Mike K.

Do you have a source for info that the new firmware enables DTS-HD High Resolution with its 3Mbps max for HD DVD format? DTS-HD Encore just supports 1509kbs and I thought that was the "core"?

Bob

The HD-A1, via analogs, supports DTS-HD core not Master.

Right. So (aside from the X1), unless they've bought a receiver in the past year or two, most consumers now have the choice of spending either $1000 for the XA2 or $1000 for a new receiver. Way to go, Toshiba!

I paid a mere $230 for my HDMI receiver. Here is a receiver that will work well with any of the new Toshiba player http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=423149&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

The player decodes ThrueHD and sends it to the receiver as PCM so any receiver with HDMI will work.

I paid a mere $230 for my HDMI receiver. Here is a receiver that will work well with any of the new Toshiba player http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=423149&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

The player decodes ThrueHD and sends it to the receiver as PCM so any receiver with HDMI will work.

I don't believe this is entirely accurate. It will decode the TrueHD, but remix it to high resolution DTS. Better than standard DTS but not as good as TrueHD 5.1.

Mike K.

No audible fan noise whatsoever, but their is a very quiet fan on the A2 and XA2.

The XA2 max output is 1080p at 60 frames per second.

The definitive answer on how they get from the HD DVD's native 1080p/24 to 1080p/60 but, I am hopping to get a response from Japan late tonight or tomorrow.

The SD DVD up-converting will be exactly the same on the A2 as it is on the current A1 and XA1, but the XA2 should actually do a even better job.

Also, the XA2 has Toshiba's excellent "Color Management Tools" built-in so you can calibrate the XA2 to your HDTV through the color management tools menu.

The XA2's new video processing chip boasts 5 times greater grey scall reproduction over the A2. The A2 has the same video processing chip set that we have in the A1 and XA1.

I have some comments on the Blu-ray players, but I'm not sure where to post them with out getting rocks thrown at me. Any recommendations?

More to come so stay tuned and keep asking questions and making comments.

-Robert

I don't believe this is entirely accurate. It will decode the TrueHD, but remix it to high resolution DTS. Better than standard DTS but not as good as TrueHD 5.1.

Mike K.

You're talking about the S/PDIF output, not the HDMI output.

-- Trevor

I don't believe this is entirely accurate. It will decode the TrueHD, but remix it to high resolution DTS. Better than standard DTS but not as good as TrueHD 5.1.

Mike K.

I was under the impression that when the player decodes the TrueHD signal and sends it to the receiver as PCM via analog or HDMI, you were getting "true" TrueHD.

I don't believe this is entirely accurate. It will decode the TrueHD, but remix it to high resolution DTS. Better than standard DTS but not as good as TrueHD 5.1.

Mike K.


From the spec, the G2 should decode Dolby TrueHD lossless into PCM via HDMI output. For DTS-HD lossless/master audio, the G2 only decode/extract the core DTS and send out via SPDIF.

I don't believe this is entirely accurate. It will decode the TrueHD, but remix it to high resolution DTS. Better than standard DTS but not as good as TrueHD 5.1.

Mike K.

That only happens (remix) if you are outputting the audio via coax or toslink.

I have some comments on the Blu-ray players, but I'm not sure where to post them with out getting rocks thrown at me. Any recommendations? -Robert

Post them to the main news and views thread in the HDTV Media forum. It's still fairly well moderated and discussions can spring up elsewhere based on what's posted in there.

You're talking about the S/PDIF output, not the HDMI output.

-- Trevor

I stand corrected, however, that receiver mentioned does not decode TrueHD in any form. It does not have that capability. Will the decoded analog 5.1 be transmitted through the HDMI? I don't think so, but I am open to other information.

Mike

So it seems that:


HD DVD discs store 1080p24 content natively
My soon-to-be purchaed Sony Pearl can accept 1080p24 and dispaly it in an even multiple of that frame rate (96 fps reported)
$500 2nd-Gen Toshiba will only pass 1080i (thus inducing a 3:2 cadence in the interlaced stream)
The Pearl reportedly will NOT IVT a 60i signal for judder free playback


The end result is it looks like I get to shell out an xtra $500 for getting the native frame rate on the disc!!!

sigh.

So close, yet so far. 1080p24 should have been standard on both models. With the reports that SoC chips are capable of passing the native framerate, there is no excuse for having to pay MORE money to do LESS processing.

The A2 is for the average purchaser, and you are clearly not that. The average purchaser doesn't buy a Sony Pearl and has no concept of 1080p24, most likely little concept of 1080p period.

That makes you an enthusiast. Pony up buddy!

-- Trevor

Post them to the main news and views thread in the HDTV Media forum. It's still fairly well moderated and discussions can spring up elsewhere based on what's posted in there.

sure, do as Chris says, if you want BOULDERS hurled at you!

post them here, i'm sure they'll disseminate just fine :)

I stand corrected, however, that receiver mentioned does not decode TrueHD in any form. It does not have that capability. Will the decoded analog 5.1 be transmitted through the HDMI? I don't think so, but I am open to other information.

Mike

There are settings in the player that select between outputing native bitstream via HDMI or outputing PCM. All that's required is the receiver be able to process the muli-channel PCM. That shouldn't be a big problem.

-- Trevor

I wouldnt say Average Purchaser. I dont consider myself that yet I want an A2. I have a 1080p display, but its 60hz, so 1080p24 is of no concern to me, that doesnt make me average.

I consider myself a videophile not an audiophile. My dad is an audiophile and I see first hand how much effort is spent chasing minute differences. PCM is fine by me.

The average consumer would buy a $50 dvd player and try to play an HD DVD on it, the average consumer is ignorant of any of this.

No audible fan noise whatsoever, but their is a very quiet fan on the A2 and XA2.

The XA2 max output is 1080p at 60 frames per second.

The definitive answer on how they get from the HD DVD's native 1080p/24 to 1080p/60 but, I am hopping to get a response from Japan late tonight or tomorrow.

-Robert

Thanks Robert,

I'm concluding from this that 1080p24 is actually NOT a selectable output from the XA2. Is that correct?

Thanks again -- Trevor

There are settings in the player that select between outputing native bitstream via HDMI or outputing PCM. All that's required is the receiver be able to process the muli-channel PCM. That shouldn't be a big problem.

-- Trevor

OK, I understand that, but I still don't think that translates to TrueHD 5.1. Will he realize the full bandwidth of the 5.1 or just the DTS-HD core?

Mike K.

I wouldnt say Average Purchaser. I dont consider myself that yet I want an A2. I have a 1080p display, but its 60hz, so 1080p24 is of no concern to me, that doesnt make me average.

I consider myself a videophile not an audiophile. My dad is an audiophile and I see first hand how much effort is spent chasing minute differences. PCM is fine by me.

The average consumer would buy a $50 dvd player and try to play an HD DVD on it, the average consumer is ignorant of any of this.

Please, don't take the word average personally. I'm somewhat demanding on both the audio and video sides, but compared to many video intensives, I can certainly be lumped into the larger crowd from a merchandising perspective.

-- Trevor

OK, I understand that, but I still don't think that translates to TrueHD 5.1. Will he realize the full bandwidth of the 5.1 or just the DTS-HD core?

Mike K.

What makes you think the HDMI PCM output will be limited to a DTS core?

-- Trevor

The G2 players are also discussed on an interview with a Toshiba exec Europe which is fetured on avforums' latest podcast (from 40' on):

MP3 (http://www.avpodcast.co.uk/podcast.mp3?p=17)
M4B (http://www.avpodcast.co.uk/podcast.m4b?p=17)

Confirmed Intel inside

1080p60, no 1080p24 on this generation

Downmix to DTS core on SPDIF continues

No DTS lossless on this generation

1080p24 is not part of the HD DVD specification

1080p via 1080i conversion but "there is no loss of quality in the process"

Specifications for 50 Hz will be defined next April. Until then there will be no 50Hz content released in Europe.

Region coding depends on the decision of the DVD Forum. The HD-E1 and HD-XE1 will never be region coded. They won't be a firmware to make them region coded.

Fixed refresh rate.

There will be regular firmware updates.

TL45: nothing at the moment.

Sales forecasts: 100,000 before EOY. A million players in Europe in 2007.

Recorders: depends on the market demand.

The G2 players are also discussed on an interview with a Toshiba exec Europe which is fetured on avforums' latest podcast (from 40' on):

MP3 (http://www.avpodcast.co.uk/podcast.mp3?p=17)
M4B (http://www.avpodcast.co.uk/podcast.m4b?p=17)

1080p60, no 1080p24 on this generation

Downmix to DTS core on SPDIF continues

No DTS lossless on this generation

1080p24 is not part of the HD DVD specification

1080p via 1080i conversion but "there is no loss of quality in the process"

Well, that settles the 1080p24 question, though I'm not clear on the meaning of "1080p24 is not part of the HD DVD specification". It's clearly part of the HD-DVD itself, what specification would there be that eliminates it from possibility as a player attribute? Surely, this isn't saying that the DVD Forum has somehow outlawed it?

A little help anyone?

-- Trevor

No native 1080p/24 output = scandal

Toshiba HD-XA2 should be called HD-A2 "The Marketing Edition". HDMI 1.3 does not matter at all (not for video , nor for audio) and interlaced->inverse telecined 1080p/60 is what you would naturally get with about any 1080p display device on the market anyway. So the additional benefit of the HD-XA2 for the customer is ZERO...

Back on Resume Play, that's not just a problem with the HD players; I've tried several Toshiba DVD players and none of them would remember where you were if the machine was shut off. So I very seldom bought Toshiba DVD players. I don't understand why Tosh's engineers hate this vital function so much but they sure seem to do so. Maybe they're under the influence of David Lynch and believe you should watch all movies from beginning to end in one sitting---though then why do they support chapter stops?

with respect to grubert, most of that information seems inaccurate...

The SD DVD up-converting will be exactly the same on the A2 as it is on the current A1 and XA1, but the XA2 should actually do a even better job.

-Robert

This is excellent news. I won't be using the analog audio and load times are important. So, any idea explanation as to how the XA2 would do a better job than the A2? I'm assuming the "exactly the same" comment applies to component as well as HDMI -- and I mean upconverting DVD copies at 1080i. I will be using component so the quality of the video DACs is also important.

with respect to grubert, most of that information seems inaccurate...

Hey, it's not me saying it. It's Toshiba Europe's deputy general manager for HD DVD products. Just listen to the track.

I'm assuming the "exactly the same" comment applies to component as well as HDMI -- and I mean upconverting DVD copies at 1080i. I will be using component so the quality of the video DACs is also important.

Actually, we can't assume anything. It may or may not refer to both HDMI and Component.

-- Trevor

Toshiba XA2

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/3976/hdxa2bb6.th.jpg (http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hdxa2bb6.jpg)

Toshiba A2

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/3835/hda2pi6.th.jpg (http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hda2pi6.jpg)

Very Nice! :cool:

So are they just reusing the display panel from another product? As mentioned before I see SACD and DVD-A on the display panel there. I haven't heard any mention about SACD/DVD-A....

What makes you think the HDMI PCM output will be limited to a DTS core?

-- Trevor

I'm going by memory based on the information of the HD-A1. As I recall, when the firmware was upgraded to 2.0, it enabled TrueHD 5.1 only for the analog outputs. The digital outputs, would only be able to provide the DTS-HD core, which would display on the panel as DTS, as would Dolby Digital Plus. It is the highest resolution audio selection available on the receiver. I may be combining information that is not totally accurate, but I think my basic premise is solid.

Since the signal coming out of the HDMI is digital, and not decoded in the player, it stands to reason that it needs a TrueHD 5.1 decoder in the receiver to be able to achieve the full benefit.

As has been pointed out, the output settings are changeable, but you can't teach an old dog new tricks, and if the receiver can't decode the TrueHD 5.1, you will need to select an alternative setting, which I am guessing to be the DTS-HD core.

This is the way it seems to me, but let me know if I have misinterpreted some information.

Mike

HDMI 1.3 marketing blah blah
Deep Color "support" marketing blah blah
1080p (1080i decoding -> IVTC) at 60Hz marketing blah blah

NONE OF THIS HAS ANY VALUE AT ALL FOR CONSUMERS OUT THERE! Tell me ONE single case where the HD-XA2 "extra features" would actually provide a benefit??? (Other than probably DTS-HD MA bitstream output with HDMI 1.3 - which is 1) not confirmed and 2) pointless without any receiver being able to decode the bitstream yet and for months and months to come) :mad:

I'm going by memory based on the information of the HD-A1. As I recall, when the firmware was upgraded to 2.0, it enabled TrueHD 5.1 only for the analog outputs. The digital outputs, would only be able to provide the DTS-HD core, which would display on the panel as DTS, as would Dolby Digital Plus. It is the highest resolution audio selection available on the receiver. I may be combining information that is not totally accurate, but I think my basic premise is solid.

Since the signal coming out of the HDMI is digital, and not decoded in the player, it stands to reason that it needs a TrueHD 5.1 decoder in the receiver to be able to achieve the full benefit.

As has been pointed out, the output settings are changeable, but you can't teach an old dog new tricks, and if the receiver can't decode the TrueHD 5.1, you will need to select an alternative setting, which I am guessing to be the DTS-HD core.

This is the way it seems to me, but let me know if I have misinterpreted some information.

Mike

With the 2.0 firmware, TrueHD 5.1 is decoded to PCM internally and sent to HDMI, to it's internal DACs for 5.1 analog out AND to the DTS encoder to output S/PDIF coaxial and optical.

Any receiver with HDMI 1.1 and above support (the spec supports 8-channels of 24-bit/192Khz PCM, the HD-DVD spec limits it to 96Khz), for example the Denon 2807 can take the already decoded PCM audio from it's HDMI ports (remember the decompression happened on the player itself).

The Key point here is there is no COMPRESSED BITSTREAM being sent through HDMI, rather, PCM audio is being sent from the player (not S/PDIF formatted DTS recompressed bitstream)

So it seems that:


My soon-to-be purchaed Sony Pearl can accept 1080p24 and dispaly it in an even multiple of that frame rate (96 fps reported)
$500 2nd-Gen Toshiba will only pass 1080i (thus inducing a 3:2 cadence in the interlaced stream)
The Pearl reportedly will NOT IVT a 60i signal for judder free playback



Oh, maybe you'll get lucky and Sony will 'include' an HD DVD 'feature' that makes HD DVD playback softer and more filtered, but BD playback 'better' (;


Hey, I wouldn't put it past them.

With the 2.0 firmware, TrueHD 5.1 is decoded to PCM internally and sent to HDMI, to it's internal DACs for 5.1 analog out AND to the DTS encoder to output S/PDIF coaxial and optical.

Any receiver with HDMI 1.1 and above support (the spec supports 8-channels of 24-bit/192Khz PCM, the HD-DVD spec limits it to 96Khz), for example the Denon 2807 can take the already decoded PCM audio (remember the decompression happened on the player itself).

The Key point here is there is no COMPRESSED BITSTREAM being sent through HDMI.

OK, I'll take your word for it.

My NAD T763 does not have HDMI, so it's not a issue for me. 5.1 analog out is the way I will go, so the A1 or XA1 is in my future plans.

Mike

I'm going by memory based on the information of the HD-A1. As I recall, when the firmware was upgraded to 2.0, it enabled TrueHD 5.1 only for the analog outputs. The digital outputs, would only be able to provide the DTS-HD core, which would display on the panel as DTS, as would Dolby Digital Plus. It is the highest resolution audio selection available on the receiver. I may be combining information that is not totally accurate, but I think my basic premise is solid.

Since the signal coming out of the HDMI is digital, and not decoded in the player, it stands to reason that it needs a TrueHD 5.1 decoder in the receiver to be able to achieve the full benefit.

As has been pointed out, the output settings are changeable, but you can't teach an old dog new tricks, and if the receiver can't decode the TrueHD 5.1, you will need to select an alternative setting, which I am guessing to be the DTS-HD core.

This is the way it seems to me, but let me know if I have misinterpreted some information.

Mike

I've already given you the correct information, the rest is up to you.

-- Trevor

So are they just reusing the display panel from another product? As mentioned before I see SACD and DVD-A on the display panel there. I haven't heard any mention about SACD/DVD-A....

Ive been waiting for someone to answer that also.
:confused:

Ive been waiting for someone to answer that also.
:confused:

Shine a flashlight on the HD-A! or XA1 display panel and I bet you see SACD and DVD-A there as well.

I've already given you the correct information, the rest is up to you.

-- Trevor

Thanks for your permission.

Mike

ha ha.
maybe they buy their displays from Denon.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but:

Having HDMI inputs on your receiver is no guarantee that you'll be able to use the Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD of the HD-DVD. A number of receivers I looked at with HDMI inputs employed them for VIDEO SWITCHING only and the receiver would have no use for the upgraded soundtracks....

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but:

Having HDMI inputs on your receiver is no guarantee that you'll be able to use the Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD of the HD-DVD. A number of receivers I looked at with HDMI inputs employed them for VIDEO SWITCHING only and the receiver would have no use for the upgraded soundtracks....

That's pretty much what I thought, but apparently TrevorS is the expert here, so who are we to disagree. I've only been in the electronics business for 23 years and don't know a thing.

Mike K.

Ive been waiting for someone to answer that also.
:confused:

They build a display that can display anything that might ever concievably be included in the product, even in future generations that re-use the same display.

Then they light up the display items that are actually available for the product.

It's called product design 101. It saves them money which in turn saves you money.

Toshiba unveils new HD DVD players (http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6372284.html)

Citing research from NPD Group that showed HD DVD players outsold Blu-ray players during the first six weeks that both players were on the market, Sally said the launch of HD DVD has been a success.

“Market demand remains strong,” Sally said.

Universal’s upcoming Tokyo Drift release will be the first to feature dual-layer 30GB on one-side and a DVD-9 standard version of the film on the flip side. HD DVD bonus features include a scene in which users can pick out their own car and access a GPS satellite map of Tokyo while the movie runs and a running calculator from Progressive Insurance shows the dollar amount for each collision.

USHE president Craig Kornblau called the dual-layer hybrid an industry first and said it could allow the studio to reach consumers who aren’t yet in HD DVD but plan to enter in the coming months.

“We are very, very excited and pleased about HD DVD,” Kornblau said.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but:

Having HDMI inputs on your receiver is no guarantee that you'll be able to use the Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD of the HD-DVD. A number of receivers I looked at with HDMI inputs employed them for VIDEO SWITCHING only and the receiver would have no use for the upgraded soundtracks....


I think it has to be HDMI 1.1, and not just HDMI switching or pass-through.

But just like you guys, what do I know. ;)

Hmm, I'm a bit disapointed. After seeing the XA1 in person, I think it's really VERY attractive, if a bit larger than I prefer. Functionally, my biggest hold backs on the 1st gen are the reports of load times and remote responsiveness.

Aesthetically, all of my HT equipment is silver. The Denon AVR's I'm eyeballing (4306 and 3806), I'm planning on paying the premium for silver. These new Toshibas are going backwards in the looks department, but Toshiba looks like they've solved the functionality issues...

Does the 12-bit/higher quality video DAC in the XA2 come into play on HD-DVD content, or only when upconverting SD-DVD? I am trying to gauge if the XA2 will output a better HD-DVD picture (to current non-HDMI 1.3 displays) than what we see on the Gen 1 players.

I updated my technical specs on the dedicated G2 page and fixed the shopping cart. I have a few more fixes and updates coming along with the pdf data sheets, which I will have completed no later than tomorrow.

-Robert

Link please?

I think it has to be HDMI 1.1, and not just HDMI switching or pass-through.

But just like you guys, what do I know. ;)

Go to:

http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/dvd/product.asp?model=hd-a1

Click "Resources"
Click: Owner's manual

Go to page 59. It's crystal clear. The only change, when update 2.0 is done, for DD TrueHD read 5.1 instead of 2 channel. Applicable to both HDMI and 5.1 analogs.

BTW, HDMI in the HD-A1 is a 1.1. For both DD TrueHD and DTS-HD, one must use PCM to passthrough tracks via a/v. Using Bitstream as a setting for DTS-HD will prompt the receiver to decode and since it cannot decode DTS-HD to this day, it will produce standard DTS.

From yoyoniner on the BR forum:

http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/09/15/panasonic-cedia-blu-ray-player/

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.hdbeat.com/media/2006/09/panabluray1.jpg

"We got good news for all the Blu-ray fanboys out there. You are no longer going to have to settle for Samsung's Blu-ray player as Panasonic is shipping their DMP-BD10 Blu-ray player to distributers now. That means that consumers might be able to get their hands on a player within a week or two and they should hit mass-market retailers in the beginning of October. Price is still the $1,299 that was annouced a few months ago though."

So at least for now the Toshiba price advantage for entry-level HD players is strong. Between the "low-end" Samsung model ($750 to $1,000), the Panny model ($1,299 and untested) and the PlayStation 3 ($500-600 if you can find one... good luck!) the extra dough you'd spend on a BR-compatible player could be used buying a small armful of cool HD-DVD titles. Pioneer Blue-Ray player and Sharp BR-in-a-box are reportedly scheduled for '07 now, and Sony's own BR player (not to be confused with the PS3! :rolleyes: ) is still in the wilderness.

Since I am particularly interested in the component signal...
I see the following video DAC specs:

HD-A1/HD XA1 - 11-bit / 216 MHz (*********************)
HD-XA2 - 12-bit / 297 MHz (audioholics)
HD-A2 - ?????

The Audioholics article did mention that the XA2 would have an advantage over the A2 without mentioning the specs of the A2 DACs. Anybody know what the specs are for the A2?

Since I am particularly interested in the component signal...
I see the following video DAC specs:

HD-A1/HD XA1 - 11-bit / 216 MHz (*********************)
HD-XA2 - 12-bit / 297 MHz (audioholics)
HD-A2 - ?????

The Audioholics article did mention that the XA2 would have an advantage over the A2 without mentioning the specs of the A2 DACs. Anybody know what the specs are for the A2?

Value electronics shows the A2 and Xa2 on teh same page. I think it might be a typo, but the A2 looks like it has the same dac as the A1.

The A2 is for the average purchaser, and you are clearly not that. The average purchaser doesn't buy a Sony Pearl and has no concept of 1080p24, most likely little concept of 1080p period.

That makes you an enthusiast. Pony up buddy!

-- Trevor

So it would seem.

I just find it a rather odd differentiator. It eould be one thing if it were adding capability that required more processing (like an additional faoroujda chip to upscale, or anoter DSP to decode additional audio formats, etc...), but in this case they could actually eliminate some logic gates by passing the stream untouched.

But since when has product feature marketing ever made sense?? :confused:

I guess I'll just say that I am NOT enthusiastic about the prospect of an xtra $500 for this.

I may deal with judder until the 4th gen machines come out.

The G2 players are also discussed on an interview with a Toshiba exec Europe which is fetured on avforums' latest podcast (from 40' on):

...


1080p60, no 1080p24 on this generation



I'm disappointed, yet I oddly feel better. ;-)

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but:

Having HDMI inputs on your receiver is no guarantee that you'll be able to use the Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD of the HD-DVD. A number of receivers I looked at with HDMI inputs employed them for VIDEO SWITCHING only and the receiver would have no use for the upgraded soundtracks....
You need to look for "multichannel PCM" support in the specs (or by checking the AVS Forum A/V Receivers section). My low-cost JVC RX-D402B receiver does a great job with the HD-A1's HDMI PCM audio. (It also has a silver-cased equivalent, the RX-D401S.)

Will these new players support discrete on/off?

HDMI 1.3 marketing blah blah
Deep Color "support" marketing blah blah
1080p (1080i decoding -> IVTC) at 60Hz marketing blah blah

NONE OF THIS HAS ANY VALUE AT ALL FOR CONSUMERS OUT THERE! Tell me ONE single case where the HD-XA2 "extra features" would actually provide a benefit??? (Other than probably DTS-HD MA bitstream output with HDMI 1.3 - which is 1) not confirmed and 2) pointless without any receiver being able to decode the bitstream yet and for months and months to come) :mad:


I'd rather be ready for the new receivers/panels than buy again so quickly. High end CRT users may be happy about 1080p even though it is the shady variety.

That said, the X2 isn't worth the price IMO. A high end unit deserves more, so I agree with you in part.

From yoyoniner on the BR forum:

http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/09/15/panasonic-cedia-blu-ray-player/

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.hdbeat.com/media/2006/09/panabluray1.jpg

"We got good news for all the Blu-ray fanboys out there. You are no longer going to have to settle for Samsung's Blu-ray player as Panasonic is shipping their DMP-BD10 Blu-ray player to distributers now. That means that consumers might be able to get their hands on a player within a week or two and they should hit mass-market retailers in the beginning of October. Price is still the $1,299 that was annouced a few months ago though."

So at least for now the Toshiba price advantage for entry-level HD players is strong. Between the "low-end" Samsung model ($750 to $1,000), the Panny model ($1,299 and untested) and the PlayStation 3 ($500-600 if you can find one... good luck!) the extra dough you'd spend on a BR-compatible player could be used buying a small armful of cool HD-DVD titles. Pioneer Blue-Ray player and Sharp BR-in-a-box are reportedly scheduled for '07 now, and Sony's own BR player (not to be confused with the PS3! :rolleyes: ) is still in the wilderness.

As of today at CEDIA Panasonic is quoting availability beginning of October in very limited quantity.

-Robert

Will these new players support discrete on/off?

Yes.

-Robert

Value electronics shows the A2 and Xa2 on teh same page. I think it might be a typo, but the A2 looks like it has the same dac as the A1.
No, here's a cut and paste from my page.

HD-A1 - 11-bit/216MHz Video DAC. HD-XA2 - 12-bit/297 MHz video DAC

BTW, all HD-XA2 specs are highlighted in bold text so you can quickly see the differences.

-Robert

The HD-A1, via analogs, supports DTS-HD core not Master.


My question had nothing to do with DTS-HD Master Audio lossless. Do you know that dts now has three named layers for dts on hi def shiny discs; Master Audio, High Resolution, and Encore? The High Resolution layer has data rates from 1.5Mbps to 6Mbps (although only up to 3Mbps on HD DVD). Encore is the legacy dts with a max rate of 1509kbps.

dts on BD and on HD DVD (http://www.dtsonline.com/dts-hd/dts-on-bluray-and-hddvd.php)

Bob

My display only has DVI and component inputs. Will the new players work properly with a HDMI-DVI cable or converter?

Also, how does the A1 do with DVI? Sorry if that's a bit off topic, but there are so many topics in this forum that I wasn't sure where to ask. Will one of the current firmwares make the A1 work properly with DVI without creating other problems? Feel free to link me to a thread or post if needed. Thanks.

Does the 12-bit/higher quality video DAC in the XA2 come into play on HD-DVD content, or only when upconverting SD-DVD? I am trying to gauge if the XA2 will output a better HD-DVD picture (to current non-HDMI 1.3 displays) than what we see on the Gen 1 players.

Toshiba engineers claim you will see a difference with the XA2's 12 bit processor on SD and HD. For example five time more shades of grey.

-Robert

My display only has DVI and component inputs. Will the new players work properly with a HDMI-DVI cable or converter?

Also, how does the A1 do with DVI? Sorry if that's a bit off topic, but there are so many topics in this forum that I wasn't sure where to ask. Will one of the current firmwares make the A1 work properly with DVI without creating other problems? Feel free to link me to a thread or post if needed. Thanks.

My A1 works great with an HDMI-->DVI cable, the only issue is that the black levels are slightly "crushed" so that you don't get true blacker than black signal with this connection.

The picture however looks great nonetheless.

I don't see any reason that the A2/X2 wouldn't work with HDMI-->DVI hookups as being compatible with DVI is part of the HDMI specification.

If your set does not support HDCP through the DVI input then you WILL have problems with upconversion of future HD titles IF they start enforcing the copy protection through the HDMI hookup.

Robert...
Sorry to ask the same question again, but does the HD-A2 have a pair of good old fashoned 2 channel stereo analog audio output jacks like the A1?
I need to run them into the TV's 2 channel stereo RCA audio input jacks (using the TV's built in 5W+5W internal amp) to power my bookshelf speakers.
Thanks very much..... Rob

Toshiba engineers claim you will see a difference with the XA2's 12 bit processor on SD and HD. For example five time more shades of grey.

-Robert
I dont quite understand why there should be a difference on HD discs, I mean doesnt the player essentially dump the disc, what pocessing is there to do other than setting up the data in the correct protocal to be sent over HDMI.

The 12-bit processor is for the DAC, thus only comes into play when Using component, so us HDMI users should not care....?

Kinda worries ya.

I dont quite understand why there should be a difference on HD discs, I mean doesnt the player essentially dump the disc, what pocessing is there to do other than setting up the data in the correct protocal to be sent over HDMI.

Kinda worries ya.

You are correct, the DAC should not make any difference in HDMI.

I just found out about the 2 new players, so by the time I found this thread it had become to huge to read. This may seem like a simple and dumb question but will the XA2 be able to send a 5.1 DD or DTS signal via optical or coax to a receiver. I see all the talk about Dolby True HD decompressed and all. I have no desire to buy and wire up to more speakers to have a 7.1 setup. I was reading about NHK's work on Ultra HD (roughly 7k by 4k resolution) and their 22.2 (yes 24 speakers) channel setup. I'm trying to wonder how much more real can it sound with so many speakers in the room. Right now, my home setup sounds just like the movie theatres.

There shouldn't be any problems with any player, regardless of generation, and a typical 5.1 signal--DD or DTS. (I think this is where someone mentions the 'A1's DTS output quirk, but I can't remember exactly what it is right now.)

I dont quite understand why there should be a difference on HD discs, I mean doesnt the player essentially dump the disc, what pocessing is there to do other than setting up the data in the correct protocal to be sent over HDMI.

The 297 Mhz DAC is for component video where it can make a difference with now being 12 bits going into a hi end component input display.

The new HDMI 1.3 supports deep color which allows more than 8 bits for video info (in a simplistic sense). This seems to be a good fit for needing same extra video processing that is used to feed the 12 bit DAC. I gather that it can take a 8 bit source and interpolate, etc. for better resulting video. I'm sure Stacey Spears or Ben Waggoner can explain this better than me. But you need a Deep Color capable HDMI 1.3 display to take advantage of this (hmm the new matching 12 bit video processing Toshiba Regza 1080p LCDs (http://www.tacp.com/news/newsarticle.asp?newsid=132) or do they have HDMI 1.3? If not then component needed to take full advantage of 12 bit?).

Bob

Robert...
Sorry to ask the same question again, but does the HD-A2 have a pair of good old fashoned 2 channel stereo analog audio output jacks like the A1?
I need to run them into the TV's 2 channel stereo RCA audio input jacks (using the TV's built in 5W+5W internal amp) to power my bookshelf speakers.
Thanks very much..... Rob

Sorry I did not answer before. Yes, the A2 and XA2 have red and white RCA stereo audio outputs.

-Robert

The 297 Mhz DAC is for component video where it can make a difference with now being 12 bits going into a hi end component input display.

The new HDMI 1.3 supports deep color which allows more than 8 bits for video info (in a simplistic sense). This seems to be a good fit for needing same extra video processing that is used to feed the 12 bit DAC. I gather that it can take a 8 bit source and interpolate, etc. for better resulting video. I'm sure Stacey Spears or Ben Waggoner can explain this better than me. But you need a Deep Color capable HDMI 1.3 display to take advantage of this (hmm the new matching Toshiba Regza 1080p LCDs (http://www.tacp.com/news/newsarticle.asp?newsid=132)).

Bob

I would agree. The CEDIA demo looks amazing.

-Robert

Sorry I did not answer before. Yes, the A2 and XA2 have red and white RCA stereo audio outputs.

-Robert
Thank you very much :D :D
Your special offer on the A1 is very very tempting...

woah, I was going to pull the plug once they got True-HD through component, but this throws a wrench in the plans...

1) Will component HD through these players (with the more powerful DAC) actually be preferable to a (crushed) HDMI-DVI signal into my CRT RPTV?

2) It's official that there's no 5.1 analogue output from the A2, meaning if I have a non-HDMI AVR (and I do) then there's no other option but to get the A1 before it's gone or the X model (ie., there's no magical HDMI>7.1 analogue device out there for cheap, huh?)

3) Despite the mention of the fancy front panel, is there even a smidgen of a rumble of a hint that Toshiba's ever going to support (existing) DVD-Audio discs with these players? That would honestly make the decision so much easier as I could then justify it alone in being the key player for my 50+ DVD-A discs...

Anyone have an in at Toshiba to ask about this last point?

VE web special for the A1 is killing me I am debating wheather to get the A1 or wait for the A2 someone please give me advice.

Rob

Hmm, I'm a bit disapointed. After seeing the XA1 in person, I think it's really VERY attractive, if a bit larger than I prefer. Functionally, my biggest hold backs on the 1st gen are the reports of load times and remote responsiveness.

Aesthetically, all of my HT equipment is silver. The Denon AVR's I'm eyeballing (4306 and 3806), I'm planning on paying the premium for silver. These new Toshibas are going backwards in the looks department, but Toshiba looks like they've solved the functionality issues...

The load times for the A1 are negligible for me (if you don't want to wait a minute or so the player may not be for you.) Remote has never been an issue. I used it once to set up the player and then uploaded the codes to my Harmony remote. This is again a non-issue for me. I have it connected to a Denon 3806 (black) via HDMI with no issues.

robert i know your at the show and so is ultimate av web site and they claim the a2 will have 5.1 analog jacks but will lack hdml 1.3and 1080p. you said you saw a prototype not the production run a2.is it possible the prototype lacks 5.1 jacks but the production will have them. it would make more sense to have them and a step backwards if they didnt

Look closer at these two photos.:

Toshiba XA2
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/3976/hdxa2bb6.jpg

Toshiba A2
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/3835/hda2pi6.jpg
...


I see HDDVD-A and SACD on both of these... are they capable of playing DVD-Audio and SACD? - Thanks.

well guys if you go to ultimate av website they say the a2 will have 5.1 analog jacks and they are at the show to. i would say there report is in error but im now confussed help!

well guys if you go to ultimate av website they say the a2 will have 5.1 analog jacks and they are at the show to. i would say there report is in error but im now confussed help!


I went to the site where did you see that the A2 will have 5.1 out

Rob

robert i know your at the show and so is ultimate av web site and they claim the a2 will have 5.1 analog jacks but will lack hdml 1.3and 1080p. you said you saw a prototype not the production run a2.is it possible the prototype lacks 5.1 jacks but the production will have them. it would make more sense to have them and a step backwards if they didnt

I am 100% sure the HD-A2will not have 5.1 analog outputs.

-Robert

So if I understand this right, Toshiba is going to offer a new model at the same price as the A1, that does less, and The 1000 dollar version will offer HDMI 1.3 that currently no receivers or processors offer, and 1080P. How is this going to help Toshiba sell more players. I had hoped that I would be able to buy a G2 player and hopefully get better luck, than I had with the A1 that I briefly owned. Looks like I will be waiting for a G3 model. I could have understood the A2 at even a $400 MSRP, but at the same as the A1 I'll pass. At least this will give me more time to save for a 1080P projector.

So if I understand this right, Toshiba is going to offer a new model at the same price as the A1, that does less, and The 1000 dollar version will offer HDMI 1.3 that currently no receivers or processors offer, and 1080P. How is this going to help Toshiba sell more players. I had hoped that I would be able to buy a G2 player and hopefully get better luck, than I had with the A1 that I briefly owned. Looks like I will be waiting for a G3 model. I could have understood the A2 at even a $400 MSRP, but at the same as the A1 I'll pass. At least this will give me more time to save for a 1080P projector.

What bothers me more is the total lack of other HD DVD players from another CE other than Toshiba. I really thought we would see at least one other non Toshiba player at this show, :(

What bothers me more is the total lack of other HD DVD players from another CE other than Toshiba. I really thought we would see at least one other non Toshiba player at this show, :(

I agree, but understand that Toshiba's two players offer more than Blu-ray's product line up as they have a terrific sub-$500 player and a high end sub-$1000 player.

As I understand Blue-ray has;

Philips Blu-ray player is made by Samsung and they have only one model at about $1000.

Panasonic has one model for $1300.

Pioneer is making Sony's player and also has only one model for about $1500. and both are delayed.

I expect we will see another HD DVD player from Lite-on and maybe even a another surprise HD DVD player by Q4.

-Robert

So if I understand this right, Toshiba is going to offer a new model at the same price as the A1, that does less, and The 1000 dollar version will offer HDMI 1.3 that currently no receivers or processors offer, and 1080P. How is this going to help Toshiba sell more players. I had hoped that I would be able to buy a G2 player and hopefully get better luck, than I had with the A1 that I briefly owned. Looks like I will be waiting for a G3 model. I could have understood the A2 at even a $400 MSRP, but at the same as the A1 I'll pass. At least this will give me more time to save for a 1080P projector.

I don't agree. Toshiba made the HD-A2 with faster load time and at 1/2 the price of the lowest price Blu-ray player. And we all know how the double priced Blu-ray player stacks up against Toshiba's product.

And why criticize Toshiba for building in advanced technology into their flagship model? Like 1080p and the 12 bit video processor and HDMI 1.3. What would you want or expect Toshiba to offer instead?

Why not enjoy the stunning pq and audio available at a very affordable price now. Life is to short and too long not to enjoy the True Full HD experience so many of your fellow forum members have so overwhelmingly posted their delightful experience with.

I know the load time is slow and the G2 player, which is faster, is priced at $499, but if you enjoy HDTV and have a nice HD display you certainly need more HD content.

CE technology will always get better and cost less as the technology matures, but we are all HD enthusiasts and love the HD experience. Sure we can wait, but how long should we wait while we miss the pleasure of enjoying stunning HD in our home systems?

-Robert

I'd really love to see a link to the new remotes. The remote for my A1 is my largest complaint. I can live with the slow load times but not the remote. I may go for an XA2 just for the remote and the improved upscaling.

Found some new information that says that the new three-layered disks will indeed play on both current DVD players and HD-DVD players.

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9003169&intsrc=news_ts_head

I would agree. The CEDIA demo looks amazing.

-Robert
Thank you so much, Robert, for the ongoing info! I'm sold on the XA2 and just placed my order for it. This will be my third HD DVD player purchased from your company so it now looks like one of my "old" HD-A1 models will be going to the master bedroom before the end of this year! If anyone is on the fence, stop procrastinating and get in touch with Robert and Value Electronics! :)

Thanks for your permission.

Mike

I never gave you permission. You're on your own.

-- Trevor

That's pretty much what I thought, but apparently TrevorS is the expert here, so who are we to disagree. I've only been in the electronics business for 23 years and don't know a thing.

Mike K.

Hey, smartypants -- you asked about the player putting out DTS core via HDMI and about the receiver having to understand Tru-HD. You received the appropriate responses. You want to find out the details on what an individual receiver can or can't do -- read the manual, that's what the rest of us have to do.

I obviously shouldn't have bothered to point out your original error -- my mistake. Have fun.

-- Trevor

Is there a owners manual or specc sheet for the HD-XA2 out yet?

As of today at CEDIA Panasonic is quoting availability beginning of October in very limited quantity.

-Robert

It figures. Panasonic is a participant in the sport of Dumpster Diving for Blue Laser Diodes ;)

So it would seem.

I just find it a rather odd differentiator. It eould be one thing if it were adding capability that required more processing (like an additional faoroujda chip to upscale, or anoter DSP to decode additional audio formats, etc...), but in this case they could actually eliminate some logic gates by passing the stream untouched.

But since when has product feature marketing ever made sense?? :confused:

I guess I'll just say that I am NOT enthusiastic about the prospect of an xtra $500 for this.

I may deal with judder until the 4th gen machines come out.

I think marketing pretty much takes a list of feature options and decides which ones belong at what level based on their analysis of the market (and perhaps a touch of competitive positioning). Then we consumers get to decide how much we'll be stuck with paying for what capability -- and complain accordingly :).

-- Trevor

Found some new information that says that the new three-layered disks will indeed play on both current DVD players and HD-DVD players.

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9003169&intsrc=news_ts_head
Of course they will be. That's the whole point.

That article is not, however, referencing TL-45.

It figures. Panasonic is a participant in the sport of Dumpster Diving for Blue Laser Diodes ;)

Good one :)

-- Trevor

Are the G2 players made in Japan?

My question had nothing to do with DTS-HD Master Audio lossless. Do you know that dts now has three named layers for dts on hi def shiny discs; Master Audio, High Resolution, and Encore? The High Resolution layer has data rates from 1.5Mbps to 6Mbps (although only up to 3Mbps on HD DVD). Encore is the legacy dts with a max rate of 1509kbps.

dts on BD and on HD DVD (http://www.dtsonline.com/dts-hd/dts-on-bluray-and-hddvd.php)

Bob

Yes I did see that page at the DTS site before. The present DTS-HD core, now available for HD DVD, is the High Resolution. DTS-HD Master not here yet.

You intended to correct me for what exactly...?

...
If your set does not support HDCP through the DVI input then you WILL have problems with upconversion of future HD titles IF they start enforcing the copy protection through the HDMI hookup.

If his set does not support HDCP, he will have no image and no sound, period. Need a handshake to get broadcast data.

I am not a "tech-head" so please forgive my ignorance with some of these questions?

1. My set is the "Toshiba 34HFX84". It's maximum image is 1080i. It has 2 HDMI inputs but but I don't think they are 1.3 or even 1.2a... Would either of these G2 players fit/work with my set?

2. My receiver is a Denon (I forget the model) but it does NOT have any HDMI inputs... Is there no way to conect the "HD-A2" to it to get standard DD 5.1 or DTS?

3. What exactly are the benefits of the "HD-A2" over the "HD-A1"?

4. What is "RS232"???

5. Does anyone have the Canadian $ for both G2 players?

3. What exactly are the benefits of the "HD-A2" over the "HD-A1"?

yes...should one wait or get A1?

I'd really love to see a link to the new remotes. The remote for my A1 is my largest complaint. I can live with the slow load times but not the remote. I may go for an XA2 just for the remote and the improved upscaling.

This post is made to encourage you to do the right thing to resolve your HD-A1 remote problem:

The very best solution is to buy a Harmony 880 remote. And with one button, you power on everything you need. Works wonderfully with the HD DVD player, a/v receiver and TV.

Using my 880, the following remotes were put aside:

HDTV, a/v receiver, VCR, DVR, 5 disc changer and HD DVD player.

Another good, less expensive option is the Harmony 520, which is only sold at Wal-Mart for about $99, I believe. I have one and I couldn't be happier with it. In my opinion, it's a lot sleeker and more attractive than Harmony's others. Hope this helps.

I am not a "tech-head" so please forgive my ignorance with some of these questions?

1. My set is the "Toshiba 34HFX84". It's maximum image is 1080i. It has 2 HDMI inputs but but I don't think they are 1.3 or even 1.2a... Would either of these G2 players fit/work with my set?

2. My receiver is a Denon (I forget the model) but it does NOT have any HDMI inputs... Is there no way to conect the "HD-A2" to it to get standard DD 5.1 or DTS?

3. What exactly are the benefits of the "HD-A2" over the "HD-A1"?

4. What is "RS232"???

5. Does anyone have the Canadian $ for both G2 players?

I think I can answer 4 of 5:
1. Any HD-DVD player will output a beautiful 1080i signal to your tv and it'll be the best looking image your TV has ever seen (DVDs will look awesome upconverted, too).

2. You've got 2 options: if you receiver has analog inputs (probably does) you can run nice high-res TrueHD through the Analog into your receiver and have amazing sound. This option isn't available on the A2 but the other 3 have analog-audio out. Or you can go through Coax/Optical S/PDIF for an ever-better sounding Dolby Digital/DTS mix (downsampled from the new high-res audio, but a definate step up over DTS sound due to maxing out the bitrate of these two 'legacy' audio streams).

3. Benefits of the A2 vs A1 are that it's smaller (looks more like a DVD player rather than a VCR - although many will argue that the build-quality of the A1 is worth the bulkiness) boots up a lot faster (I've read 20 seconds - likely loads movies faster, too) has a better and more responsive remote (many have complained about laggy response from the A1's remote). Disadvantages include price ($15 value-differential (A1 is cheaper) by my calculations with the power-buy, once you figure in $22 per free HD-DVD title and shipping) and the analog output discussed in point 2.

4. I may be wrong, but I believe it's a high-end serial controller that allows you to 'control' the AX1-2 from your receiver. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

5. How much is a flight to NY? :) Sorry no Canadian pricing has been released as far as I've read.

Personally, I'm leaning strongly towards the A2 (don't need analog out) as soon as I read a comprehensive review of a production model.

I am not a "tech-head" so please forgive my ignorance with some of these questions?

1. My set is the "Toshiba 34HFX84". It's maximum image is 1080i. It has 2 HDMI inputs but but I don't think they are 1.3 or even 1.2a... Would either of these G2 players fit/work with my set?

The HDMIs of your set are certainly not 1.3. In any event, your CRT cannot display 1080p. So no point in having 1.3 for video.


2. My receiver is a Denon (I forget the model) but it does NOT have any HDMI inputs... Is there no way to conect the "HD-A2" to it to get standard DD 5.1 or DTS?

The recommended choice in your case is to buy the present HD-A1 to get 5.1 multichannel analog outputs, if your Denon has the 5.1 analog inputs. This would be the way to get Lossless DD TrueHD and DTS-HD core. The HD-A2 provides digital ports (optical and coaxial) and with bitstream would give you DD and DTS as you know it. But the HD-A2 does not have 5.1 multichannel analog outputs.


3. What exactly are the benefits of the "HD-A2" over the "HD-A1"?

Answered above


4. What is "RS232"???

It's a serial port to connect a RF remote.


5. Does anyone have the Canadian $ for both G2 players?

Present HD-A1 is $699.99 at most stores and HD-A2 should be the same.
Present HD-XA1 is $999.99 at most stores and I would expect the HD-XA2 to be $1,399.99 if present differential with US prices are maintained.

I believe this question has been asked before but not answered.

Do the G2 models output both Dolby Digital and DTS on the coax/optical connection or only DTS like the G1 models?

Thanks,

Bob

I'd really love to see a link to the new remotes. The remote for my A1 is my largest complaint. I can live with the slow load times but not the remote. I may go for an XA2 just for the remote and the improved upscaling.
The remote really doesn't matter (IMHO). Even if the new remote is 10X better - it still won't equal a harmony or Theater Master. Both light up in the dark beautifully. I used the new HD-A1 remote for a total time of only 30 minutes. Just long enough for my Theater Master to learn it's commands. I bought the Theater Master off of e-bay for $24.95. Works fantatstic - no more response problems or the need to push a button twive. Trust me on this.

What bothers me more is the total lack of other HD DVD players from another CE other than Toshiba.

That and no additional studio support. Well - there's always CES to hope for.

Is there any firm info on true time to disk play in G2? I've seen 20sec boot mentioned once.

Is there any firm info on true time to disk play in G2? I've seen 20sec boot mentioned once.

I'm awaiting this as well. I IM Robert last night and asked him to see if he could get an exact time. He said he'd get back to me today. Hopefully he finds out.

If the load time is a lot less, then I'll probably buy the A2.

Are the G2 players made in Japan?

I'd also like to know if both players are made in Japan ?

Thank you Robert,

Dan

...The present DTS-HD core, now available for HD DVD, is the High Resolution. DTS-HD Master not here yet.

You intended to correct me for what exactly...?

Not correct, but rather to ask for the source of your information that the Toshiba is now using the High Resolution named layer and not the Encore (which I have previously read was called "core"). It would seem that the High Resolution layer implies that it is using extra data contained outside of the "core".

Bob

Another good, less expensive option is the Harmony 520, which is only sold at Wal-Mart for about $99, I believe. I have one and I couldn't be happier with it. In my opinion, it's a lot sleeker and more attractive than Harmony's others. Hope this helps.


Was in Wal-mart last night, they have the Harmony 720 knocked down from $194 to $150.

It's all black, a glossy polished piano black. Black is beautiful!

-Robert

Thank God.

All black is the only way to go (wake up Panny with your silver plasma bezels :mad: ) - for dedicated theaters with visible racks, it's a must. If you buy 3 silver components, chances are you'll have 3 different colors.

...and no, I have no desire to take a can of Krylon to my new CE products.

poor ettiquette, perhaps, but a mild bump on this post that got lost in the wilderness...


1) Will component HD through these players (with the more powerful DAC) actually be preferable to a (crushed) HDMI-DVI signal into my CRT RPTV?

2) Is there an HDMI-7.1 Analogue external Audio box available?

3) Is Toshiba or anyone associated with HD-DVD hinting at support for DVD-A, or is it officially dead.

Thanks, sorry to bump.

I expect we will see another HD DVD player from Lite-on and maybe even a another surprise HD DVD player by Q4.

-Robert

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the A2 and XA2 feature sets were very deliberately designed with a gap that will provide another CE manufacturer an opportunity to successfully target a mid-level niche.

The end result of that strategy would benefit both consumers and the format as a whole.

will the XA2 pass 1080p/24 via HDMI 1.1 to my tv or will it only provide 1080p if it detects HDMI 1.3?

will the XA2 pass 1080p/24 via HDMI 1.1 to my tv or will it only provide 1080p if it detects HDMI 1.3?

The XA2 outputs 1080p/60, 1080i or 720p through the HDMI port regardless of the HDMI version you have on your A/R or HDTV.

The only thing you will not get it the HDMI 1.3 support for Deep Color.

-Robert

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the A2 and XA2 feature sets were very deliberately designed with a gap that will provide another CE manufacturer an opportunity to successfully target a mid-level niche.

The end result of that strategy would benefit both consumers and the format as a whole.

I wouldn't be surprised if a player appears that trumps the XA2 in features and is priced near the A2 arrives sometime in the next 3-5 months. Isn't the Liteon already confirmed to decode all advanced codecs fully?

Thank God.

All black is the only way to go (wake up Panny with your silver plasma bezels :mad: ) - for dedicated theaters with visible racks, it's a must. If you buy 3 silver components, chances are you'll have 3 different colors.

...and no, I have no desire to take a can of Krylon to my new CE products.I agree completelty. Too bad the TiVo/Sat/Cable box guys can't figure this out.

I wouldn't be surprised if a player appears that trumps the XA2 in features and is priced near the A2 arrives sometime in the next 3-5 months. Isn't the Liteon already confirmed to decode all advanced codecs fully?

Could be. My point is it may be premature to judge G2 strictly on the announced Toshiba players. The combination of features and price of those two products may not look like they are covering all their bases in the market, but they may only be a piece of the puzzle. What if G2 actually ends up something like this (from high to low):

?
XA2
?
?
A2
?

I see all the talk about Dolby True HD decompressed and all. I have no desire to buy and wire up to more speakers to have a 7.1 setup. Right now, my home setup sounds just like the movie theatres.


You don't need more speakers to enjoy Dolby TrueHD. TrueHD is uncompressed audio..where DTS and 5.1 employ compression. If you have the right setup (read through this thread) you can play TrueHD on your 5.1 setup and enjoy,from what I've read, MUCH better sound.......Here is one spec that demostrates the huge difference....although i don't how significant this is in "real life"

Dolby Digital AC-3 Bitrate= 448 kbits/sec
DTS Bitrate= 1.536Mbits/sec
Dolby TrueHD Bitrate= 18 Mbits/sec (hence why it can't be passed through the digital out jack)

I believe this question has been asked before but not answered.

Do the G2 models output both Dolby Digital and DTS on the coax/optical connection or only DTS like the G1 models?

Thanks,

Bob

Hi, Bob

Actually I'm pretty sure I saw the answer to that above, but still. As far as HD-DVD playback is concerned the S/PDIF ouput will be transcoded DTS just as before, this having the advantage of allowing the maximum legacy bitrate to be available for older receivers. If this approach were not taken, the maximum bitrate for non-DTS tracks would be 640Kbps (rather than DTS 1.5Mbps).

However, that doesn't mean all S/PDIF HD audio output will be 1.5Mbps. An example is many of Warner's current titles apparently have 640Kbps DD+. That lower bitrate will naturally result in a lower bitrate DTS transcode.

SD DVD S/PDIF output will be identical to any other DVD player.

-- Trevor

You don't need more speakers to enjoy Dolby TrueHD. TrueHD is uncompressed audio..where DTS and 5.1 employ compression. If you have the right setup (read through this thread) you can play TrueHD on your 5.1 setup and enjoy,from what I've read, MUCH better sound.......Here is one spec that demostrates the huge difference....although i don't how significant this is in "real life"

Dolby Digital AC-3 Bitrate= 448 kbytes/sec
DTS Bitrate= 1.536Mbytes/sec
Dolby TrueHD Bitrate= 18 Mbytes/sec (hence why it can't be passed through the digital out jack)

18Mbps? Yikes! Isn't that well into video bitrate territory? (Actually, the 'b' stands for bits, not bytes :)).

-- Trevor

OK boys and girls, I just got the latest pdf data sheets for the A2 and XA2 and put them up on my dedicated page.

-Robert

Could be. My point is it may be premature to judge G2 strictly on the announced Toshiba players. The combination of features and price of those two products may not look like they are covering all their bases in the market, but they may only be a piece of the puzzle. What if G2 actually ends up something like this (from high to low):

?
XA2
?
?
A2
?




Any info on the ? and ? etc. I particularly like the ? model though. :p

OK boys and girls, I just got the latest pdf data sheets for the A2 and XA2 and put them up on my dedicated page.

-Robert


Robert,

Any idea on exact time from start on to play?

OK boys and girls, I just got the latest pdf data sheets for the A2 and XA2 and put them up on my dedicated page.

Can't find it, I can only see the TiVo HD and A1/XA1 offers. Direct link please?

I've read a couple of reviews on some sites about price pointing and decrying that now Toshiba itself is making HD non-accessible to the mainstream (like their blu-ray counterparts). Get this reviewers and pseudo-commentators: there are ENTRY level players - the A1 and now the A2 which is CLEARLY in the affordability range for most purchasers. If you commentators can't get it right then comment on something that's easier on your mental acuity.

Can't find it, I can only see the TiVo HD and A1/XA1 offers. Direct link please?
http://www.*********************/Toshiba_HD-A2_and_HD-XA2.htm

Guess he means
http://www.*********************/images/pdf/HD-A2.pdf
and
http://www.*********************/images/pdf/HD-XA2.pdf

and yes the 18mbits is the MAXIMUM bitrate, since that's 50% of the max HD-DVD spec data throughput, I'm guessing the TrueHD we see is less than that.. .by a lot - but still uber and whatnot.

The spec sheet of the A2 (only one I skimmed) shows a new remote with 'glow buttons' - like starry night glow paint on a few keys that glow for 5 minutes after you turn out the light? Thanks Toshiba :) I haven't seen the A1 remote (only read about how terrible it is) - any insight into how this new one (in the PDF above) compares? A2 certainly seems like the low-end model, feature-list seems to sell itself short.

Well I did it. :eek:

I put a pre-Order in on an A2.

I look at it this way:
1.) Faster load times. Thats important in my book.
2.) Analog Outputs doesn't concern me. I'll use Optical out until I buy a HDMI 1.3 Receiver.
3.) Same price basically as the A1 since you get an extra movie and free shipping.
4.) Most likely this will be a little more "refined" and have less issues than the A1.
5.) There will be better and cheaper models down the line just like current DVD players. So I'll use this until they get even better then upgrade.
6.) I used to like Sony, but I have contempt for them force feeding BR technology especially when it's twice what I'm paying for the A2.
7.) I maybe 26, but you only live once and I can afford it.

Believe it or not...

HD DVD has only just launched at CEDIA!

The A1 and X1 were test marketing and experimental tools to test the market with! :eek:

They have just released, in their estimation, the first marketable HD DVD players. These new players do not have any of the quirks that test products had.

The true launch has only just begun! :eek:

They strategy was first to test the market, addressing all the flaws, and at the same time to see what the BR card was before they fully unleashed their counter attack!

They are about to blitz the market with HD DVD and Xbox 360 HD DVD advertising!

This is insider info gotten from a very reliable source. Amir can either refute what I just said, agree, or choose to remain quiet.

Believe it or not...

HD DVD has only just launched at CEDIA!

The A1 and X1 were test marketing and experimental tools to test the market with! :eek:

They have just released, in their estimation, the first marketable HD DVD players. These new players do not have any of the quirks that test products had.

The true launch has only just begun! :eek:

They strategy was first to test the market, addressing all the flaws, and at the same time to see what the BR card was before they fully unleashed their counter attack!

They are about to blitz the market with HD DVD and Xbox 360 HD DVD advertising!

This is insider info gotten from a very reliable source. Amir can either refute what I just said, agree, or choose to remain quiet.


Thanks oshidi for the explanation of why Toshiba did what they did. Now you announced there was going to be 2-3 surprizes earlier this week. Can we consider this as one and possibly more to follow at Cedia? Or has all the surprizes been announced at this point?

Believe it or not...

HD DVD has only just launched at CEDIA!

The A1 and X1 were test marketing and experimental tools to test the market with! :eek:



So, does this mean that Toshiba realized that the HD-A1 was just too good given the competitive situation? One of the most pleasant surprises with the A1 was the quality of the SD-DVD upconversion. I can't imagine that places selling high end Denon or Pioneer Elite SD-DVD players really wanted a new, competent competitor -- and one where "HD DVD playback is just another bonus."

They have just released, in their estimation, the first marketable HD DVD players.
I'm sure the 1080p->1080i->1080p will razzle-dazzle everyone.

These new players do not have any of the quirks that test products had.
Do we know this for a fact, or is this just an assumption? Are these the same people who said the FW upgrade/fixes would fix the G1's issues?

They are about to blitz the market with HD DVD and Xbox 360 HD DVD advertising!
Now, if only they would put out more decent movies, and spare us the Dukes of Hazard type of dreck.
J

Thanks oshidi for the explanation of why Toshiba did what they did. Now you announced there was going to be 2-3 surprizes earlier this week. Can we consider this as one and possibly more to follow at Cedia? Or has all the surprizes been announced at this point?
This is only the beginning. The tip of the iceberg. :D

There are some great news and developments brewing behind closed doors. Trust me, it is hard to contain my excitement, but I must remain quiet or I know I will be cut off. I will try to beat the press release if I can on these! I want to be the first to reveal them right WHEN they are authorized. ;)

This is only the beginning. The tip of the iceberg. :D

There are some great news and developments brewing behind closed doors. Trust me, it is hard to contain my excitement, but I must remain quiet or I know I will be cut off. I will try to beat the press release if I can on these! I want to be the first to reveal them right WHEN they are authorized. ;)

Show me the goodies, or please spare us the suspense. :rolleyes:

You are starting to sound like Sony's spinmeisters [in terms of hype]. Either tell us what the news is, or just don't drop useless hints that "something BIG is acoming" !!

Another good, less expensive option is the Harmony 520, which is only sold at Wal-Mart for about $99, I believe. I have one and I couldn't be happier with it. In my opinion, it's a lot sleeker and more attractive than Harmony's others. Hope this helps.
They have the Harmony 676 at Sam's for $99. I saw it in the store today. Web also.

http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/navigate.do?dest=5&item=339751

Any info on the ? and ? etc. I particularly like the ? model though. :p

I'm sold!

So who's carrying them?

-- Trevor

I seem to be missing something. Can someone tell me what the new and exciting surprises that have been revealed are? All I am seeing is obvious things that we have heard about for some time.

This is only the beginning. The tip of the iceberg. :D

There are some great news and developments brewing behind closed doors. Trust me, it is hard to contain my excitement, but I must remain quiet or I know I will be cut off. I will try to beat the press release if I can on these! I want to be the first to reveal them right WHEN they are authorized. ;)


oshodi thanks for the update. The remaining surpizes to come are they in the Hardware(Vendor) or Software(Movie side) or are they still being discussed at this time with no decisions. I realize you can not give out the information at this time but it would help if we new if it was HW or SW or both....thanks

Believe it or not...

HD DVD has only just launched at CEDIA!

The A1 and X1 were test marketing and experimental tools to test the market with! :eek:

They have just released, in their estimation, the first marketable HD DVD players. These new players do not have any of the quirks that test products had.

The true launch has only just begun! :eek:

They strategy was first to test the market, addressing all the flaws, and at the same time to see what the BR card was before they fully unleashed their counter attack!

They are about to blitz the market with HD DVD and Xbox 360 HD DVD advertising!

This is insider info gotten from a very reliable source. Amir can either refute what I just said, agree, or choose to remain quiet.


You seem very excited about this, and are treating it as "special insider info". Why?

What is the big deal? Most of us thought of these first gen players as "beta" products anyway. We all know that hd-dvd has not done significant advertising.

Are they going to have any reputable CE companies start making HD-DVD players?

Otherwise I don't see what the big deal could be.

Show me the goodies, or please spare us the suspense. :rolleyes:

You are starting to sound like Sony's spinmeisters [in terms of hype]. Either tell us what the news is, or just don't drop useless hints that "something BIG is acoming" !!
Agreed. The cheerleading is getting tiresome.
J

oshodi thanks for the update. The remaining surpizes to come are they in the Hardware(Vendor) or Software(Movie side) or are they still being discussed at this time with no decisions. I realize you can not give out the information at this time but it would help if we new if it was HW or SW or both....thanks
Support and Hardware.

I have given more than I should!

Nuff said.

Guess he means
http://www.*********************/images/pdf/HD-A2.pdf
and
http://www.*********************/images/pdf/HD-XA2.pdf

and yes the 18mbits is the MAXIMUM bitrate, since that's 50% of the max HD-DVD spec data throughput, I'm guessing the TrueHD we see is less than that.. .by a lot - but still uber and whatnot.

I'll believe it, just didn't expect it. As in, WOW!!!

Darned good think Amir's bunch is still shrinking the VC-1 bitrate requirement -- that number makes my head spin (a LOT less for the 5.1 Real McCoy sounds good to me). I wonder what the maximum bit rate spec was for MLP DVD-A multichannel?

-- Trevor

Well I did it. :eek:

I put a pre-Order in on an A2.

I look at it this way:
1.) Faster load times. Thats important in my book.
2.) Analog Outputs doesn't concern me. I'll use Optical out until I buy a HDMI 1.3 Receiver.
3.) Same price basically as the A1 since you get an extra movie and free shipping.
4.) Most likely this will be a little more "refined" and have less issues than the A1.
5.) There will be better and cheaper models down the line just like current DVD players. So I'll use this until they get even better then upgrade.
6.) I used to like Sony, but I have contempt for them force feeding BR technology especially when it's twice what I'm paying for the A2.
7.) I maybe 26, but you only live once and I can afford it.

It looks like a really interesting box, and I could easily see going with one. I'm eager to start seeing the reviews on them (should be a definite step forward in ergonomics over G1).

-- Trevor

It looks like a really interesting box, and I could easily see going with one. I'm eager to start seeing the reviews on them (should be a definite step forward in ergonomics over G1).

-- Trevor

Only thing I'm worried about is something better getting announced that is priced competitively to the A2.

Only thing I'm worried about is something better getting announced that is priced competitively to the A2.

I know what you mean, though at the same time, if I look at the rest of the world of upscaling players, the A2 really is a LOT of player still at $500 (given the HD aspect). I just find it hard to imagine any CE mfg seriously wanting to compete at that price level this early in the game. I just don't think the technology's yet had time to mature enough to enable the component level pricing to support $500 and below as a financially attractive arena for competition. (Sorry about all those words in a single sentence, but I failed to find a better way to express it :).)

-- Trevor

Originally Posted by oshodi
Believe it or not...

HD DVD has only just launched at CEDIA!

The A1 and X1 were test marketing and experimental tools to test the market with!

They have just released, in their estimation, the first marketable HD DVD players. These new players do not have any of the quirks that test products had.

The true launch has only just begun!

They strategy was first to test the market, addressing all the flaws, and at the same time to see what the BR card was before they fully unleashed their counter attack!

They are about to blitz the market with HD DVD and Xbox 360 HD DVD advertising!

This is insider info gotten from a very reliable source. Amir can either refute what I just said, agree, or choose to remain quiet.

lol, I can't wait to see what spews forth next :eek:

How does one refute complete speculation and delusions of grandeur?

What planet are you on?


Well its not Pluto anymore. :D

oshodi sounds legit and he does have some inside information with people (relatives) who are involved. He is baiting us (maybe to keep our hopes up) but not to show off, but to keep up our spirits up that Toshiba and MS are rallying to put more pressure on Sony and Blu-ray. He also has posted a lot about HD DVD and Blu-Ray (mainly negative), but I believe he is a cheer leader and a good one for the HD DVD side.

Hey, smartypants -- you asked about the player putting out DTS core via HDMI and about the receiver having to understand Tru-HD. You received the appropriate responses. You want to find out the details on what an individual receiver can or can't do -- read the manual, that's what the rest of us have to do.

I obviously shouldn't have bothered to point out your original error -- my mistake. Have fun.

-- Trevor

I know what my receiver is capable of, I don't need your attitude.

Mike

Believe it or not...

HD DVD has only just launched at CEDIA!

The A1 and X1 were test marketing and experimental tools to test the market with! :eek:

They have just released, in their estimation, the first marketable HD DVD players. These new players do not have any of the quirks that test products had.

The true launch has only just begun! :eek:

They strategy was first to test the market, addressing all the flaws, and at the same time to see what the BR card was before they fully unleashed their counter attack!

They are about to blitz the market with HD DVD and Xbox 360 HD DVD advertising!

This is insider info gotten from a very reliable source. Amir can either refute what I just said, agree, or choose to remain quiet.

Oshidi,

I have no problem being in the testing phase for the A1 player. In my estimation I have certainly received the benefits of HD DVD for my initial $450 investment. As I have posted before I have only had about 3 lipsync issues and 1 total freeze in the four months I have owned the player. Great video/audio. I maybe in the minority but I think the upconvert is better than my Denon 3910.

Oshidi,

I have no problem being in the testing phase for the A1 player. In my estimation I have certainly received the benefits of HD DVD for my initial $450 investment. As I have posted before I have only had about 3 lipsync issues and 1 total freeze in the four months I have owned the player. Great video/audio. I maybe in the minority but I think the upconvert is better than my Denon 3910.
Please do not misunderstand me. I am by no means saying that the first generation players are not stellar products. I was merely devulging the strategy revealed to me as concerns the A2 & AX2 releases. I bought the A1 anyway because I was told that it was a one-in-a-kind product. I of course am buying the AX2 later this year.

Please do not misunderstand me. I am by no means saying that the first generation players are not stellar products. I was merely devulging the strategy revealed to me as concerns the A2 & AX2 releases. I bought the A1 anyway because I was told that it was a one-in-a-kind product. I of course am buying the AX2 later this year.

No misunderstanding on my part. I think Tosh did a great job on G1, very satisfied as a matter of fact. Best $450 I spent on a A/V product in a long time.

Well its not Pluto anymore. :D

oshodi sounds legit and he does have some inside information with people (relatives) who are involved. He is baiting us (maybe to keep our hopes up) but not to show off, but to keep up our spirits up that Toshiba and MS are rallying to put more pressure on Sony and Blu-ray. He also has posted a lot about HD DVD and Blu-Ray (mainly negative), but I believe he is a cheer leader and a good one for the HD DVD side.
These are merely BR faithfuls attacking me in hopes that they would force me into revealing confidential info in order to justify myself. :)

But if my sources were false, how did I know the SALES PRICE of the US HD-XA2 before it was even released in the press??? :rolleyes:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=718912

Oshodi, Please keep the info coming. I am the proud owner of a XA1 and I love it. But of course I want to keep abreast of new developments.
Keep doing the great job in giving us insider info.

lol, I can't wait to see what spews forth next :eek:
I only hope Sony does not drop the MAP of their player to $799, that would hurt.
I really think Toshiba could seriously Damage Sony with a 1080P/12bit player at $799, even without 5.1 analouges, serial, coaxial, lighted remote.
Oh wait the price may change between now and Dec.

I only hope Sony does not drop the MAP of their player to $799, that would hurt.
I really think Toshiba could seriously Damage Sony with a 1080P/12bit player at $799, even without 5.1 analouges, serial, coaxial, lighted remote.
Oh wait the price may change between now and Dec.

As Cpanther95 pointed out earlier, there's room for other HD-DVD players from other CEs in the current line-up. If hints from other sources (including Oshodi) have merit, then we might see one or two other slots filled by Christmas.

According to BR land, the PS3 will cover the low ground and according to supporters, it will do pretty much everything, so there may be little reason for Sony to depress their price (especially if they are significantly subsidizing the $600 PS3). Course, maybe Sony will twist Samsung's arm into depressing theirs :).

Seems like the opportunities for speculation go unabated. :):):)

-- Trevor

PS. I second the opinion that Oshodi's a decent fellow and although clearly an HD-DVD cheerleader, it's just enthusiasm. He obviously hates having to sit on his hands when in posession of information as much as the next guy, but he genuinely has no choice but to withhold it. (And I agree with the "baiting" bit :).)

PPS. What he said on the previous page is near enough the same as a few of us had previously concluded, that there is no reason at all to disbelieve any of it. Besides, hard to seriously disagree with something that makes complete sense, and matches both observation and deducted expectation.

Please do not misunderstand me. I am by no means saying that the first generation players are not stellar products. I was merely devulging the strategy revealed to me as concerns the A2 & AX2 releases. I bought the A1 anyway because I was told that it was a one-in-a-kind product. I of course am buying the AX2 later this year.

I'm currently liking my 1.0 RCA so much (no misbehaviors in ages), I'm becoming tempted to buy a second. And I DEFINITELY don't NEED a second :).

-- Trevor

A few pages ago (man this thing is growing fast) folks were saying that the DAC has no use for those using HDMI, and therefore the AX2s more advanced DAC was of no real benefit unless you use Component. I do not believe that this is true. While I am not an insider my understanding is that the DAC does the conversion from the compressed video formats that are stored on the HD DVD (MPEG-2, VC-1, AVC) and renders each frame in an uncompressed format that is then transferred via HDMI (your display device having now way to do this decompression). So i think that the increased bit depth of the AX2 will be of benefit for everyone. I realize that DAC stands for Digital to Analog Converter, but I believe that it is more than that, and the term is just used conveniently.

Perhaps an insider could chime in?

Steve

The remote really doesn't matter (IMHO). Even if the new remote is 10X better - it still won't equal a harmony or Theater Master. Both light up in the dark beautifully. I used the new HD-A1 remote for a total time of only 30 minutes. Just long enough for my Theater Master to learn it's commands. I bought the Theater Master off of e-bay for $24.95. Works fantatstic - no more response problems or the need to push a button twive. Trust me on this.

For me the remote matters a ton. I've never been able to justify spending money on a Universal remote in any way shape or form. I've done full research on Pronto's/Marantz (also looked at Crestron's etc.). I just haven't needed one and still wouldn't need one if the Toshiba remote was worth a damn. It is by far the worst remote I can remember owning/operating. It's a joke. I may be forced into buying something I haven't decided on yet. That isn't cool with me.

I shouldn't have to go spend $40-$1000 extra on a remote unless I WANT to. I may choose to at some point, I've recently reshopped remotes to get more up to date on where these things stand as I was being driven crazy by the Toshiba. It's still the worst part of an awesome machine. I for one would like to see a picture of the new remote and hear that it performed. If you read reviews of HT gear you're always told how the remote functions and how ergonomically designed it is... even though a majority of people probably have a universal of some sort.

I've gotten by until now. I'm hoping to bridge the gap until I upgrade my electronics (my Denon is aging). I'd really like a remote I can use until I get a Pre-amp/rcvr that can decode these new formats.... I'm looking forward to a display that says I'm listening to TrueHD :)

I don't agree. Toshiba made the HD-A2 with faster load time and at 1/2 the price of the lowest price Blu-ray player. And we all know how the double priced Blu-ray player stacks up against Toshiba's product.

And why criticize Toshiba for building in advanced technology into their flagship model? Like 1080p and the 12 bit video processor and HDMI 1.3. What would you want or expect Toshiba to offer instead?

Why not enjoy the stunning pq and audio available at a very affordable price now. Life is to short and too long not to enjoy the True Full HD experience so many of your fellow forum members have so overwhelmingly posted their delightful experience with.

I know the load time is slow and the G2 player, which is faster, is priced at $499, but if you enjoy HDTV and have a nice HD display you certainly need more HD content.

CE technology will always get better and cost less as the technology matures, but we are all HD enthusiasts and love the HD experience. Sure we can wait, but how long should we wait while we miss the pleasure of enjoying stunning HD in our home systems?

-Robert

Robert, I would love to buy another HDDVD player. I even saved my copy of Training Day, and Sleepy Hollow, in anticipation of my next player. Problem was with my Infocus SP5000, I was unable to get the SDDVD's to play through the HDMI/DVI connection. Everytime I tried to get it to play I got the HDMI error. I had issues with trying to get the player and projector to sync without having to restart the player with my HD movies. My current receiver (Pioneer Elite VSX-53TX) does not offer HDMI, so I need the analogue inputs for Dolby TrueHD. I don't really mind the slow loading time, since I have a projector it needs to warm up as well, but if the wife cannot turn it on, and get it to function, the answer is no from the misses. If it were not for these issues, I'd still have my A1, and watching a movie right now, instead of typing. Until then I still enjoy my Panasonic S97.

For me the remote matters a ton. I've never been able to justify spending money on a Universal remote in any way shape or form.


I have to say that the money I spent on my Harmony universal remote has been one of the pleasant parts of my home theater. I plan to upgrade to the just announced Harmony 1000 when it is released in Oct.

The XA2 outputs 1080p/60, 1080i or 720p through the HDMI port regardless of the HDMI version you have on your A/R or HDTV. The only thing you will not get it the HDMI 1.3 support for Deep Color. -Robert
Robert,

Just to clarify: are you saying HDMI 1.3 is backward compatable with previous standards (1.2 on my Sony for example)? Someone posted in another thread that the connectors were even different with 1.3. If so, is it just a matter of the proper cable to connect to a 1.2 TV? Or is it just simple HDMI plug & play (without the new 1.3 features being implemented of course).

Thanks,
Byrne

It is backwards compatical, yes, just minus the extra capabilities. Same cable, same connector. The mini-connector is an addition to the hdmi spec for camcorders. Its amazing how mis-information spreads.

A few pages ago (man this thing is growing fast) folks were saying that the DAC has no use for those using HDMI, and therefore the AX2s more advanced DAC was of no real benefit unless you use Component. I do not believe that this is true. While I am not an insider my understanding is that the DAC does the conversion from the compressed video formats that are stored on the HD DVD (MPEG-2, VC-1, AVC) and renders each frame in an uncompressed format that is then transferred via HDMI (your display device having now way to do this decompression). So i think that the increased bit depth of the AX2 will be of benefit for everyone. I realize that DAC stands for Digital to Analog Converter, but I believe that it is more than that, and the term is just used conveniently.

Perhaps an insider could chime in?

Steve

Seems like having a video DAC perform decoding would be awkward since there are multiple CODECs floating around. I guess I would be very much surprised if that function were not deliberately kept seperate from that of digital to analog conversion (unless perhaps for some highly dedicated all in one chip design for some very specific single CODEC high volume or space critical application -- military maybe?).

--Trevor

Not correct, but rather to ask for the source of your information that the Toshiba is now using the High Resolution named layer and not the Encore (which I have previously read was called "core"). It would seem that the High Resolution layer implies that it is using extra data contained outside of the "core".

Bob

My answer was based on the fact that page 59 of the Owner's manual specifies DTS-HD for HD DVD and DTS for standard DVD video.

You will notice on the DTS page:

http://dts.com/dts-hd/dts-on-bluray-and-hddvd.php

that for DTS Encore there is no DTS-HD specified.

I believe this question has been asked before but not answered.

Do the G2 models output both Dolby Digital and DTS on the coax/optical connection or only DTS like the G1 models?

Thanks,

Bob

The HD-A2 does not have a coaxial digital output (according to the pdf specs now on Robert's website), only optical (different from the A1).

The digital optical connection will transmit normal DD and DTS for SD DVD. For HD DVD, DD Plus is detected as DTS and decoded as such because of the 1.5 Mbps bitrate.

And for the SPDIF setup in the player you can always change the "Bitstream" selection to PCM and get 2 channel audio transmission in PCM format.

The HD-A2 does not have a coaxial digital output (according to the pdf specs now on Robert's website), only optical (different from the A1).

The digital optical connection will transmit normal DD and DTS for SD DVD. For HD DVD, DD Plus is detected as DTS and decoded as such because of the 1.5 Mbps bitrate.

And for the SPDIF setup in the player you can always change the "Bitstream" selection to PCM and get 2 channel audio transmission in PCM format.


Thanks for the reply.

I guess it's time to upgrade my Pioneer VSX-99 receiver.

Hi, Bob

Actually I'm pretty sure I saw the answer to that above, but still. As far as HD-DVD playback is concerned the S/PDIF ouput will be transcoded DTS just as before, this having the advantage of allowing the maximum legacy bitrate to be available for older receivers. If this approach were not taken, the maximum bitrate for non-DTS tracks would be 640Kbps (rather than DTS 1.5Mbps).

However, that doesn't mean all S/PDIF HD audio output will be 1.5Mbps. An example is many of Warner's current titles apparently have 640Kbps DD+. That lower bitrate will naturally result in a lower bitrate DTS transcode.

SD DVD S/PDIF output will be identical to any other DVD player.

-- Trevor


Thanks for your reply.

Upgrading my 10 year old, DD only, no 5.1 analog channel input receiver is my next step to enjoy HD-DVD.

I only hope Sony does not drop the MAP of their player to $799, that would hurt.
I really think Toshiba could seriously Damage Sony with a 1080P/12bit player at $799, even without 5.1 analouges, serial, coaxial, lighted remote.
Oh wait the price may change between now and Dec.


I sincerely hope that Sony does drop their prices...and over time they likely will. Price competition is a good thing for consumers. The manufacturers that offer a blend of price and features attractive to consumers will do well and they know it. At prices over $500 the broad mass consumer market is not likely going to be much involved with these products anyhow, at least for quite a while if I had to guess, so I'd think it doubtful that Toshiba could seriously damage Sony or even vice versa.

VE web special for the A1 is killing me I am debating wheather to get the A1 or wait for the A2 someone please give me advice.

Rob
Don't hold your breath. I asked a similar question and was met with thunderous silence. :(

Don't hold your breath. I asked a similar question and was met with thunderous silence. :(
Well I decided to go with the A2. Mainly because of faster load times. Most likely more stable than the A1. Possibly a Better remote than the A1. Eventually I'm going to get a receiver with HDMI. Those are enough for me to get the A2. Plus free shipping and 2 free HD-DVDs makes it basically the same price as the A1.

No misunderstanding on my part. I think Tosh did a great job on G1, very satisfied as a matter of fact. Best $450 I spent on a A/V product in a long time.
I'm joining you...but at an entry price of $399. :D

I'm joining you...but at an entry price of $399. :D

When I Read the Toshiba Press Release - it said only the X2 supports
1080p output.

If you already have an A1 - why would you want an A2 that does not
support 1080p?

Well I decided to go with the A2. Mainly because of faster load times. Most likely more stable than the A1. Possibly a Better remote than the A1. Eventually I'm going to get a receiver with HDMI. Those are enough for me to get the A2. Plus free shipping and 2 free HD-DVDs makes it basically the same price as the A1.
Thanks! :)
I have the Harmony 880 downstairs and it is a wiz. Since I have a 4-year-old Toshiba 65" CRT with a DVI/HDCP connection, I'm going with the A1 unit.

Shipping in two weeks. :D

When I Read the Toshiba Press Release - it said only the X2 supports
1080p output.

If you already have an A1 - why would you want an A2 that does not
support 1080p?
Sorry I wasn't clear: I wanted advice on the choice of the first gen or the second gen. My equipment seems to mandate the A1--which I just ordered from Amazon on Friday. I don't even want to see Robert's deal--I didn't think he still had one on the A1. :o

Sorry I wasn't clear: I wanted advice on the choice of the first gen or the second gen. My equipment seems to mandate the A1--which I just ordered from Amazon on Friday. I don't even want to see Robert's deal--I didn't think he still had one on the A1. :o

Now that is a HARD question to answer.

If you currently have NO HD-DVD player and you don't see
1080p in your future - I would wait a bit for the HDA2!

I have had a HDA1 since day one and I'm upset that I have
to UPGRADE to the X2 at the beginning of 07 to get 1080p
which I need for my 1080p Front Projector.

I'm scratching me head asking why the A2 does not support 1080p.

Oh Well - that is life on the bleeding edge of high-tech.

I hope I have helped with your decision.

Any word yet on the country in which these new models are manufactured?

I prefer not to buy Taiwan made A/V products, but I was forced to with my recent 42" LCD purchase. It was the only model with the features I wanted. Hopefully the new players are still made in Japan.

So if I understand this right, Toshiba is going to offer a new model at the same price as the A1, that does less, and The 1000 dollar version will offer HDMI 1.3 that currently no receivers or processors offer, and 1080P. How is this going to help Toshiba sell more players. I had hoped that I would be able to buy a G2 player and hopefully get better luck, than I had with the A1 that I briefly owned. Looks like I will be waiting for a G3 model. I could have understood the A2 at even a $400 MSRP, but at the same as the A1 I'll pass. At least this will give me more time to save for a 1080P projector.

how come i have a feeling that the A2 will be selling at <$499 (or atleast with extra freebies) when they hit the stores. The whole point of putting the price point of the lesser than (A1) player is to allow more freedom of pricing for retailers. meaning to make the player more 'retailer friendly'. Maybe Robert can comment on that.

When I Read the Toshiba Press Release - it said only the X2 supports
1080p output.

If you already have an A1 - why would you want an A2 that does not
support 1080p?

Because 1080p doesn't matter.

When I Read the Toshiba Press Release - it said only the X2 supports
1080p output.

If you already have an A1 - why would you want an A2 that does not
support 1080p?

Let me repeat this. The A2 is not made to be purchased as an ungrade to A1 or XA1. If u have A1, there is absolutely no need to replace it with A2.

Let me repeat this. The A2 is not made to be purchase as an ungrade to A1 or XA1. If u have A1, there is absolutely no need to replace it with A2.

I think that was the POINT I was trying to make!

If you already have an A1 - why would you want an A2 that does not support 1080p?Because the A2 is smaller, lighter and faster.

Oshodi, Please keep the info coming. I am the proud owner of a XA1 and I love it. But of course I want to keep abreast of new developments.
Keep doing the great job in giving us insider info.

I'm newly proud owner of the XA1 as well. I'm loving the look and build quality of this thing! For the Power Buy price through Value Electronics, this thing is a bargain. I have zero regrets on my purchase.

Several people have mentioned that the new high end player could be good for HD-DVD to beat the price of the Blu-ray players. Maybe the thought is to not always come off as a "cheap" player giving consumers the thought of cheaper being inferior. The A2 gives an entry level price to the technology and the XA2 will be geared towards high end users who aren't as concerned about price. Even at a few hundred bucks cheaper than BD players, most consumers wouldn't pay that anyway.

I'm glad I decided not to hold out and get the XA1. This is a really cool machine. I also don't care about the big size. I just want a well built machine that performs well!

Because the A2 is smaller, lighter and faster.

I could understand faster, and maybe even smaller, though personally it is inconsequential. What advantage is there to lighter?

Mike K.

I could understand faster, and maybe even smaller, though personally it is inconsequential. What advantage is there to lighter?Mike K.Lighter components placed on a rolling TV stand require less effort to move from one position in the room to another. They're also easier to ship when it's time to sell them on Ebay ;)

I have had a HDA1 since day one and I'm upset that I have
to UPGRADE to the X2 at the beginning of 07 to get 1080p
which I need for my 1080p Front Projector.

I'm scratching me head asking why the A2 does not support 1080p.


I'm still learning all of this, but would it be correct to say that the A2 DOES support 1080p/60 display just as well as any announced player that outputs 1080p? From everything I've read, deinterlacing the 1080i output within the display device will lead to the same display data that any of the 1080p players will put out. Or, did I miss something? :)

I'm still learning all of this, but would it be correct to say that the A2 DOES support 1080p/60 display just as well as any announced player that outputs 1080p? From everything I've read, deinterlacing the 1080i output within the display device will lead to the same display data that any of the 1080p players will put out. Or, did I miss something? :)

FYI - the HDA1 in NO WAY Supports 1080p.

All I suggest is reading the Press Release ---

http://www.tacp.com/news/newsarticle.asp?newsid=131

Thanks for your reply.

Upgrading my 10 year old, DD only, no 5.1 analog channel input receiver is my next step to enjoy HD-DVD.

My processor is on the order of 6 to 8 years old, and supports only composite and S-Video for switching and S/PDIF and analog stereo for audio. DVI etc wasn't even talked about back then. I had 5.1 analog inputs installed as an aftermarket upgrade following purchase of a 5.1 SACD/DVD-A layer, but I still have them dedicated to that player.

So my appreciation of the new HD soundtracks remains restricted to the S/PDIF transcode advantages :).

-- Trevor

FYI - the HDA1 in NO WAY Supports 1080p.

All I suggest is reading the Press Release ---

http://www.tacp.com/news/newsarticle.asp?newsid=131

That is not what he is saying...

He believes that a 1080i source can feed a 1080p display nicely.

FYI - the HDA1 in NO WAY Supports 1080p.

All I suggest is reading the Press Release ---

http://www.tacp.com/news/newsarticle.asp?newsid=131

The A2 supports display of 1080p in the same sense as the A1 supports display of 1080p. My point being that to support "display" of 1080p is not the same thing as to say supports 1080p.

I understand most 1080p displays (not including CRT projectors) have the abililty to accurately recombine the received 1080i fields into 1080p frames. Since the 1080i fields are derived from a 1080p source (the HD-DVD disc), that recombination will reconstruct the actual 1080p image on the display.

So I think the answer to the intended question is yes, but the wording is at issue.

-- Trevor

Because 1080p doesn't matter.
Especially if it is interlaced and deinterlaced before leaving the player.
If you don't have a TV that accepts 1080p it is irrelevant. In fact, it s quite possible that some of the better 1080p TVs may do a better job of deinterlacing than the internal chip in the XA2.
Time will tell.
J

So I think the answer to the intended question is yes, but the wording is at issue.

-- Trevor

MOST - BUT NOT ALL - 1080p displays can accept 1080i and do something
with it.

I was referring to the DVD player actually outputting the 1080p material
on the disk as it was intended to be watched.

Based on the press release - I think only the X2 will do that.

MOST - BUT NOT ALL - 1080p displays can accept 1080i and do something
with it.

I was referring to the DVD player actually outputting the 1080p material
on the disk as it was intended to be watched.

Based on the press release - I think only the X2 will do that.
Well........
It will do it the same way that the Samsung does it, ie. PiP. I would think that the point of 1080p is that it was intented to have minimal proccessing.
J

robert thanks for the reply. so the a2 wont have analog jacks [5.1],thats alright,but dd and dts via coax or opital cable should sound better if the bit rate is higher. is the bit rate higher?

Here's my snapshot of the upcoming XA2. That's the one I'm going for next. Guy said they were shooting for late Dec. just in time for a Christmas purchase.

Unfortunately most of the hype at Cedia was Blu-Ray based, but HD-DVD didn't do poorly. The PQ definitely favored HD-DVD and I think the projectors using HD-DVD vs. BD got a bit of help from the superior PQ.

Ken

1) I had a A1 but sent it back because I thought it was defective. Now I'm not so sure. When I tried playing a second disc it would load then pause for over five minutes which shut down my Sanyo Z3 PJ since it no longer received a signal. Toshiba CS told me to leave it unplugged overnight. This was unacceptable so I sent it back. Could this be a HDMI handshake problem between my Z3 and A1 and will it repeat with the A2?

2) I have a Harman Kardon AV225 receiver. It has Dolby Digital, DTS decoding, Logic 7 and Dolby ProLogic II with digital coaxial and Toslink in. It's too old to have HDMI. Does this receiver have what it takes to use the sound capabilities of the the Toshiba HD- A2?

Thank you for taking the time to consider my questions before I order the A2.

Thank you for taking the time to consider my questions before I order the A2.

The A1 is known to still have some handshake problems.

I have no handshake problems with most of my equipment.

I did have a handshake with one piece and that manufacturer
fixed it.

I doubt if any of us know if the A2 will be bulletproof.

This whole HDCP is one big can or worms.

BTW - where are you ordering an A2 from - I doubt anyone has one
yet to actually deliver.

Sorry I wasn't clear: I wanted advice on the choice of the first gen or the second gen. My equipment seems to mandate the A1--which I just ordered from Amazon on Friday. I don't even want to see Robert's deal--I didn't think he still had one on the A1. :o

Yes our Power Buy is still on, but you did well with Amazon's deal anyway. Enjoy your player.

-Robert

For me the remote matters a ton. I've never been able to justify spending money on a Universal remote in any way shape or form. I've done full research on Pronto's/Marantz (also looked at Crestron's etc.). I just haven't needed one and still wouldn't need one if the Toshiba remote was worth a damn. It is by far the worst remote I can remember owning/operating. It's a joke. I may be forced into buying something I haven't decided on yet. That isn't cool with me.
I see the new A2's remote looks like the one used for the RCA HDV5000. As I owned an RCA before my recent upgrade to the XA1 (thanks, V.E.!), I thought the RCA remote worked quite well. Now that I have the XA1's remote, I truly think it's a joke. It turns on by itself with nothing is playing, and won't turn on when you shake it violently. Good thing it went straight to the storage drawer...

Do yourself a favor and take a serious look at the Harmony remotes (you did not mention these in your posting). I had a 659 way back when (pre-Logitech, when they were still Itrigue Technologies) and was very impressed. I have since upgraded to the 880 and have never looked back. You're willing to spend 1000's of dollars on components but are too stubborn to invest less than $160 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00093IIRA/ref=nosim/coffeeresearch) (online pricing) for an incredible remote such as the 880. Onr button to push to get the movie going - what could be easier????

For me the remote matters a ton.
Are you sure?!

(btw, my apologies for getting off topic. I am happy with my XA1 and have no urge to buy a G2 player at this time)

Yes our Power Buy is still on, but you did well with Amazon's deal anyway. Enjoy your player.

-Robert
You are a true gentleman, Robert. :)