Time Warner Cable Navigator [Text View] - Page 13

nextoo

01-11-08, 12:44 PM

I posted this last month showing examples of problems associate with cable users that are using the SA8300HDC boxes. These are non TWC customers who are not using Navigator. The symptoms are very similiar and in some cases identical to many of the Navigator complaints witnessed in this thread.

The examples I used where primarily from Comcast customers using the SA8300HDC. Comcast does not use Navigator. In many cases these customers are using the SARA EPG. So if A = B and B = C then based on logic A = C. Not D. Or what somebody would like D to be.

As I said in the post Navigator is a work in progress. But so are all of the other moving parts associted with the SA8300HDC boxes. Here it is:

I guess it is simply beyond the intellectual capacity of some of the posters in this thread to comprehend that many of the problems with the SA8300HDC STBs are SA8300HDC related. Meaning although Navigator is obviously a work in progress many of the problems reported are also experienced on SA8300HDC boxes being deployed by other cableco carriers. Comcast for example. Last I checked Comcast was not in the process of deploying SA8300HDC boxes with Navigator installed. Various quotes from both Comcast and TWC customers:

From a Comcast customer::

I have moved back to Comcast territory in Connecticut, back in with the 'rents for now (give me a break, I'm only 24!). Anyway, I stopped by the local office in Waterbury yesterday to pick up an HD DVR. They gave me a Scientific Atlanta 8300HDC, note the "C" at the end. It looks just like the 8300HD, but it has a CableCard slot in the back, and came with the CableCard in it already.

So, I get it back to the house and connect it. I have noticed slight differences in the on screen guide, subtle, but there. It says "NEW" in the program description if the program is first-run, and also shows the programs rating in the info bar next to the program name. The 8300HD that is in the living room does not have these features.

But I'm getting away from my actual issue and reason for posting. When watching digital channels (HD and SD) on the 8300HDC, there is occasional sound dropout (lasts for about 2-4 seconds), while the picture continues to move. Then, the exact opposite also happens. The picture will freeze for 2-4 seconds, but sound will continue in the background. If I watch a 3 hour baseball game, some combination of these issues will happen probably 10 times or so. This does not happen on the 8300HD in the living room. Also, it's not a signal problem, as I have checked, and get a slightly better signal in my room than the living room.
So basically, does anyone else here have the 8300HDC, and if so, do you have the same problem? I want to know if it's a universal problem, able to be fixed in a firmware update, or if I have a bad box and need to swap. Thanks!

Edit: I should also point out that I am using HDMI for both video and audio right now until I connect my surround sound system. But, I did try doing component with analog audio as well, and still have the same problem. Also, I know it's not a problem with video connection as the problems I'm having are being recorded by the DVR, if I go back and rewind afte they happened, or watch a recording.

From someone who appears to be a TWC service tech (only because the emaill address had a .rr address - who knows). But no Navigator references. Blames the SA8300HDC box:

i know what you mean about the 8300 hdc box...i'm a service tech. for a major cable company and i see this on a daily trend....rebooting the box will help in some cases...but the problem still comes back....also when rebooting the box it takes about 5 to 10 minutes to come back on....i have also seen the box not wanting to record a scheduled recording that you would program....have seen them missing channels, sound, movies on demand not working, and error messages.....i have brought this up to are engineers and they all say is the problem will be fixed...we are also not supposed to replace the box because they say it will fix itself...but when you have a product that causes this much of a problem, the smart thing would be to replace it.....and another thing i have had issues with is digital channels ...the sound is alot lower sounding then your regular analog channels....all in all my Recommendation is to request the 8300 box, and let them know whats going on with the hdc box....if customers and techs both complain enough, they might get the hint....

From a Comcast customer:

Wow, I just tried watching some on demand stuff wih the 8300HDC, and it's pretty much useless. I tried watching 3 different programs, and they all froze up completely, some after 20 seconds, others after about 3 minutes.

They GOTTA fix this box!

A TWC customer in response to the Comcast customer:

I am not a comcast customer, I have TWC in Kansas city, however i have the SAME PROBLEMS. It started with the sound cutout, then the DVR missed some scheduled programs, then the DVR menu/guide/channel change stopped working. Sometimes when you turn the DVR off, it doesn't actually turn off. The boyfriend and i have turned in two of these boxes in as many months and are now on the third. We were able to fix the problems by unplugging it and plugging it back in, at least for a while. Now, however, the DVR will not record anything, it has mysteriously deleted our recordings, sometimes it refuses to load, and still has all of the above problems. From my research, it seems to be a problem either with the box, requiring a firmware update from SA or a problem with the card in the back which enables TWC or whoever your provider is to run a crappy program.

Another Comcast customer:

Man I thought I was the only one with this issue. Back in July I swapped out my SA8300HD at my local office for a SA8300HDC. Pretty much since day one, I had some minor issues, which I thought would go away. Then I started noticing freezing of the picture and audio dropouts, which would occur at random times. Very annoying if you're trying to watch either a live program or especially a recorded program.
So one day, I left the box off overnight, plugged it back in the next morning and received software/firmware upgrades which basically rectified the issue. Occasionally I will get slight pixelation for about a few seconds, but the problem is all but gone.

Another Comcast customer:
I've been having issues since i upgraded from the 8300 to the HDMI version of the HD-DVR (8300 HDC). With the other box, i had no issues. Now, every day i have to unplug my device and plug it back in. I can watch HBO, Howard, or any other onDemand for a random amount of time before they all end up freezing after 3 seconds.
I called Comcast and they said i need a new box, but i know that's not true becaause this one is new and everyone else is reporting the issue. I also experience audio cut outs on regular, hd, and onDemand channels.

I really dont want to unplug and replug my box every time i want to use onDemand. Has anyone found anything else on this?

Another Comcast customer:
I had a SA 8000HD that I needed to replace due to its lack of HDMI, so I went to Comcast payment center with the intent of swapping it with a 8300HD. They only had HDC models available (i asked for 8300HD of course), and while I was well aware that these boxes had some issues, how bad could they be? Well, pretty bad, at least for watching recordings. Audio glitches are constant, although video freezing has not been a major issue. I wish I could get my 8000HD back now, but I don't think Comcast will give it to me. I miss my Motorola DCT3416 from when I lived in Illinois. Hopefully a firmware update is released ASAP.

A TWC customer:

Hey, guys. Im in Ohio, under Time Warner Cable out of Columbus. Less than a month ago, I ordered Didgital Cable with the DVR... I got the 8300HDC box, and let me tell ya, its a piece of ****. Im having all the same problems with this box as you all are. Within the last 48 hours, Ive had a boat-load of issues. Things happening like the Pause not working on live TV, no rewind, and here's the lastest BS: A firmware upgrade about 3 am. Automatically. The firmware finished upgrading, and the box has re-booted about 6 times. I called Time Warner and got yet another day credited to my account. I told them if they bring another one of these pieces of **** out here, they might as well keep it, and I'll entertain myself with only the internet. Point being: I believe that these Scientific Atlanta 8300HDC cable boxes are all LEMONS, after reading reviews around the country.

A Comcast customer:

So I had one of the infamous locked up VOD instances tonight, so I rebooted my box. When it came back on, it display on the unit flashed "dnld" then "card", so I powered on the box to see if it would show on screen what it was doing. It said it was downloading a firmware upgrade for my CableCard. It took a few minutes, then said my box would reboot. It's rebooting right now as I type. I'm probably hoping wrong here, but I am hoping that they maybe were able to find the problems lying within an incompatibility between the Card and the box, and this upgrade may fix the problems. I doubt it, but will check it out.

And last but not least.

A TWC customer with the SA8300HDC running SARA:

THIS IS THE BIGGEST PIECE OF SH!T.

Ive had tivo, from directv which was awesome, swithed to DISH's DVR due to the 40+ HD channels and since I moved I called Time Warner to come out and setup some HD cable and internet. They came out this past monday and I started setting my recording list up to record some things on fox HD.
I am with Time Warner I have the 8300HDC in the diag menu it shows SARA and I'm in austin, tx. Well my shows monday night was dropping out to the point where the listing that was recorded would show up like 5 times in the list menu. one for like 2 minutes, one for 5 minutes, 1min, 13min etc.. all for one show. Also it did not record one show which was not conflicting, and one show had audio no picture. I am really missing my Dish DVR at this point.I called the installers wednesday morning wanted to give the dvr another chance. SAME CRAP! They came out and replaced all the connections in the apartment, including the connections outside and said if this didnt work they would get a new box installed. Wednesday same stuff. Called thursday and they brought a new box out. Thursday night, friday, and saturday its still happening. Also the remote fails to respond sometimes and when you hit the skip back it sometimes goes to the beginning of the show. This is the biggest pile of junk and the worst dvr layout I have ever seen. Where is the priority list? Where is the episode number of the show? Where are folders at? the list goes on and on. I am glad I do not have a contract. Might just stick with dish and pay the extra insurance to install it on the apartment.

Emphasis added.

From here:
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r18956308-Scientific-Atlanta-8300HDC

So are the problems reported by the Comcast customers Navigator related? Or box related? They sound familiar don't they? Are the problems reported by SA8300HDCs running SARA also Navigator related? How could that be? I want some of you people to really really try this time to provide a logical response.

thescotchzombie

01-11-08, 12:47 PM

Contractor came by this morning with a 8300 HD Passport box; so far so good. Gave me a new remote as well. I guess the OCAP rollout in the Triangle is not universal....

Blue_Rage

01-11-08, 01:48 PM

Network version. Apparently, 2.4.8_2 has some kind of an issue with eSATA that 2.4.5_4 (which seems to still be the prevalent version) does not; maybe your problems started when you got upgraded. Hope you guys can figure out a workaround, as TWC is probably not going to help. If they upgrade me to 2.4.8_2, I'll try to figure it out as well, I'm not giving up the extra storage without a fight. I have a different eSATA drive, though.

My guess is that they might have added a new energy-saving feature to the box, so it kind of goes to sleep, which puts the eSATA drive to sleep as well (so it spins down), then when the box wakes up, the drive is not ready and all hell breaks lose.
One thing you can try is what nmspace is going after - try to disable spin down by accessing eSATA's hidden features.
Another thing you can try is something as simple as not ever turning the box off.
Also, maybe the Navigator developers left a back-door secret code to turn this "feature" off, and may be willing to share it (OK, that one's wishful thinking, but I've seen that kind of thing happen a lot in other situations).

Strange thing is that if you leave the box on and go to bed, the same thing still happens. It's only if you leave the box AND the TV on that it will continue to work, and that's really not an option.

BenJF3

01-11-08, 02:34 PM

As I stated in my post, I don't believe these are completely Navigator issues. However, no one has an 8300HD running Navigator that can report on it and prove otherwise. I'd like to see if Navigator runs on a non-OCAP box without issues. Then we can rest the blame squarely on the equipment.

nextoo

01-11-08, 03:19 PM

I would not say squarely on the equipment but two months ago the equipment was cavalierly dismissed as a contributor to the problems. The blame was put squarely on Navigator. Naively.

There is simply to much cross pollination of similar if not identical complaints contained in "closed populations" (i.e. Comcast TWC being mutually exclusive) for the SA8300HDC not to be considered the primary suspect. The common variable between the two closed populations.

One thing has been established within the TWC population though. That is the SARA version that runs on the SA8300HDC suffers from many of the same problems reported by Navigator users. So if SARA has problems within both the "closed" Comcast and TWC populations on SA8300HDC boxes then from an extremely simplistic perspective you have a choice of the SA8300HDC or SARA being the problem. My choice would not be SARA. As it is not Navigator. My choice is the SA8300HDC.

BenJF3

01-11-08, 03:40 PM

Well nextoo, maybe we will get some relief in the new Cisco box that should be hitting cable providers this spring. I don't doubt the 8300HDC is related to the problem and that's another reason I stayed with my 8300HD. I would like to try one of the newer MPEG 4 boxes when they are released.

PedjaR

01-11-08, 03:47 PM

Strange thing is that if you leave the box on and go to bed, the same thing still happens. It's only if you leave the box AND the TV on that it will continue to work, and that's really not an option.

No, I wouldn't want TV on all night either. Try switching to component, then it will not know you turned the TV off.

nextoo

01-11-08, 03:56 PM

I have read recently in different forums comments about "they said they have to upgrade the cable card firmware" or "after they upgraded the cable card firmware things got better" - loosely quoted. Or it could be a bad individual cable card. Or different versions of cable cards installed in different SA8300HDC boxes. So it may be possible that even with the existing boxes things could become more stable. Either way there are stable problem free boxes and unstable boxes within the same TWC area so it is tough to say that it is all SA8300HDCs in the aggregate. Not sure.

Also consider that there have been reports in this thread that after a few box swaps everything worked fine - or better than before when using an unstable box. In these cases the version of Navigator stayed the same and things got better with the different box. Again the dynamic variable being individual SA8300HDCs.

In either case it is a mess for those affected. In my case my first box was stable. So there was no pain. But for those with Navigator on stable boxes Navigator shouldn't get a get out of jail free card. It is a work in progress and far from being an excellent EPG. That being said it is not as bad as it appears to be when throwing in all of the issues that may be the result of the SA8300HDC.

Satch Man

01-11-08, 04:07 PM

I wonder what SA's reputation currently is with all of the problems with these new C boxes? It certainly can't be good! Is the change to Cisco a company take-over or SA just changing its name? I am sure that regardless of the cable company, SA is just passing the buck on to them or the FCC because of the mandate for integrated cable card C-boxes after the July 1, 2007 deadline. Translation: "No bureaucratic company wants to take responsibility for their own mistakes."

Questions to continue to consider in all of this:

1.) Why does it appear that better performance is coming out of the Non-DVR C boxes than the DVR C-boxes? While it is easy to say, "Well the DVR is so much more complex." But, that is still a poor excuse for a product that is such an important part of the cable system, especially when people are paying $100-200+ a month.

2.) What has been the performance of SARA and Passport on a C-box and C-DVR?

3.) How is Navigator performing on the non-C boxes and non-C DVR's?

4.) Do any TWC divisions (other than Lincoln Nebraska) who's Navigator performance seems to have greatly improved from last year's disasters have Navigator on the non-C DVR's yet?

5.) Do any TWC divisions have updated Passport or SARA software on C-boxes or C-DVR's?

6.) If the C-boxes are the culprit over the IPG software in all of this, what thing or things in the C-boxes are causing the crap outs on the C-boxes, and who is responsible for fixing these problems?

7.) If Navigator is supposed to eventually be a universal product with its functions and features, why is it that their are some divisions that have features that other's don't have? Most requested seem to be:

A. Keyboard keyword searches. (Not just titles) This was offered by Passport and should be reinstated in all Navigator divisions.

B. More options for series recordings, such as:

1. The ability to save fewer than 3 shows per series, which is the number set by Navigator through default.

2. The ability to record a series by blocks of time and the ability to control what channels a series will record through expanded options. (Although I think Lincoln Nebraska got a Navigator upgrade that includes some of these features.)

The rollout for Navigator to non-C DVR's here in Milwaukee Wisconsin) is expected to be completed before the end of first quarter. This seems to be the trend for other TWC divisions as well. So much will be known at that time (at least in Milwaukee) that the reasons for the problems may begin to narrow down as other divisions follow suit. Keep in mind that there are thousands and thousands more non-C models of boxes and DVR's that have been around for 5 years+ compared to the new C-boxes. If the IPG rollouts, regardless of the software used, show little to no problems with the non-C boxes, and DVR's, than it almost HAS to be the C-boxes that are the problem. In that case, who would want a C-box after all of this? Thanks to the FCC for getting involved in the mandate of these new boxes, (if these are the problem) when they should have left things alone.

Jack

nextoo

01-11-08, 04:21 PM

I questioned the importance of the July date and the affect it would have with new boxes going out with cable cards. The FCC ruling was originally made years ago in an attempt to motivative companies to enter the STB business and allow consumers to purchase their STBs at retail. But it became obvious that no company wanted to enter the retail market (Tivo did jump in). As a result the "open" STB idea seemed meaningless. Why should a cableco be forced to deploy a box with cable cards. The response was that the cablecos have been dragging their heels for some time with cable cards and that it was time for the cablecos to "have to eat their own dog food". I'll never forget that response.

Unfortunately the customers are the ones eating the dog food.

Satch Man

01-11-08, 05:46 PM

nickdawg

01-11-08, 05:49 PM

Just wanted my new signature to be seen! :D:D

nextoo

01-11-08, 06:09 PM

Thanks for the response Nextoo,

Now that you have posted this response, many more won't forget it either!

Jack

Jack - yea I know. In my opinion both the cablecos and the equipment manufacturers are at fault. The cablecos because I think they thought they were going to get another waiver and the July 07 date would get pushed out once again - as it had been done historically. And the equipment manufactures for not being ready as well. Comcast had an active appeal going as late as June if I remember correctly.

edit - and the FCC. The FCC could have recognized that there was no retail market emerging. Mandating a cableco to use an open STB with the current available technology - cable cards - along with the added costs that just get passed on to the consumer might be considerd a bit oppressive especially when the consumer gets caught in the middle. I think it was more of a penality imposed on the cableos for again dragging their heels on cable card development. The cablecos told the FCC they were not ready and I think they meant it. And appealed for a waiver until Open Cable could be implemented thus avoiding the hardware cost and implementation costs of cable cards.

As a result times are tough all over the cableco landscape as it relates to customer satisfaction and the cable card boxes. At least that is what seems to be happening. Add to that the introduction of an new EPG, Navigator, on HDC boxes and it is a real confusing mess.

Things seem to be very quiet in SE WI. But quite honestly I haven't been paying much attention. As posted I left TWC in November.

As an aside. It looks like the natives are restless over in the Comcast Tivo thread. Not happy. And the Tivo installation I think is on boxes without cable cards. I'm interested in how Navigator does on the older boxes. Different flavor of Navigator but interested none the less.

BenJF3

01-11-08, 06:36 PM

Blue_Rage

01-11-08, 07:15 PM

No, I wouldn't want TV on all night either. Try switching to component, then it will not know you turned the TV off.

Yeah, I've tried that----no success unfortunately. Going to maybe try a third box, but I'm not too optimistic.

peter144

01-11-08, 07:44 PM

nmspace

01-11-08, 08:54 PM

Yeah, I've tried that----no success unfortunately. Going to maybe try a third box, but I'm not too optimistic.

I had previously tried keeping the box on (I'm pretty sure with component, at some point around that time I also was switching back and forth between component and hdmi). With no success either.

As PedjaR referenced, I've contacted Western Digital to ask if there is a way to defeat the spindown/sleep function within the drive. I haven't heard back from them yet. I did find a utility where you can go in and look at the drive settings and change them - however this drive won't allow me to change the sleep timer at all.

BTW: I already tried another machine - it's doing the same thing.

Here's the workaround that has been working for me for 2 days now:

I setup to record the TV Guide channel as a series. It comes in 3 hour blocks, and I set the recording options to only keep three episodes... so it doesn't clutter up my recorded list. Doing this channel as a series will actually record everything on that channel 24/7.

I then went into the Show List\Scheduled Recordings\By date and looked for any conflicts. I then 'resolve' any conflict by removing that particular TV guide recording (click on the show showing the conflict and follow the prompts). I haven't yet gotten to a time that I did this - so I don't know if I will need to go in and reschedule a couple of hours somewhere... I don't know the spin down time of the drive etc.. so we'll see.

Also, you'll need to go into this every few days and check for new conflicts as the new days come into the scheduled recordings.

So far however, this has worked successfully for me.

parishd

01-11-08, 09:01 PM

PedjaR

01-11-08, 09:14 PM

All of a sudden my recorder will not record anything. I press record...the guide shows the program in red...the list show nothing saved....the log indicates:
"Will not record because the channel is not available (2)

Does not matter what channel....any ideas+

thanx Dennis

That's a known bug, most likely indicating bad box. For some people (very few, certainly not me), it disappeared after cold reboot (unplugging). For most people, time to replace the box (helped me). Might get different issues with the new box, so keep replacing until you get one where you can live with the issues. Or switch to satelite. Best case scenario would be to get an HD instead of HDC box, but that's a long shot, plus it is likely that all HD boxes in circulation are returns; maybe they were returned for a reason.

PedjaR

01-11-08, 09:20 PM

I had previously tried keeping the box on (I'm pretty sure with component, at some point around that time I also was switching back and forth between component and hdmi). With no success either.

As PedjaR referenced, I've contacted Western Digital to ask if there is a way to defeat the spindown/sleep function within the drive. I haven't heard back from them yet. I did find a utility where you can go in and look at the drive settings and change them - however this drive won't allow me to change the sleep timer at all.

BTW: I already tried another machine - it's doing the same thing.

Here's the workaround that has been working for me for 2 days now:

I setup to record the TV Guide channel as a series. It comes in 3 hour blocks, and I set the recording options to only keep three episodes... so it doesn't clutter up my recorded list. Doing this channel as a series will actually record everything on that channel 24/7.

I then went into the Show List\Scheduled Recordings\By date and looked for any conflicts. I then 'resolve' any conflict by removing that particular TV guide recording (click on the show showing the conflict and follow the prompts). I haven't yet gotten to a time that I did this - so I don't know if I will need to go in and reschedule a couple of hours somewhere... I don't know the spin down time of the drive etc.. so we'll see.

Also, you'll need to go into this every few days and check for new conflicts as the new days come into the scheduled recordings.

So far however, this has worked successfully for me.

Oh, that's a pain, but at least it works
So, it gets new new day guide overnight while recording? Wonder what it will do if it needs any update since it is running with no down time at all. You might want to give it a manual reboot every few days, just in case.

PedjaR

01-11-08, 09:20 PM

I agree with the above posts. I thought the same thing myself. WHY? Why do cable companies need to deploy an STB with a cablecard? It makes no sense whatsoever since they control the equipment. Only third party manufacturers who sell to the public should be required to have the cablecard. I mean, I get the OCAP standard and how they want to have a situation where Joe Schmo can buy his own STB that must be capable of downloading and running on the providers system. People can blame cable here, but I fault the FCC for instituting bad policy. Once again the consumer has to bend over and take it.

The point is that in that case, cable cards would never work right. Forcing cable cards on cable companies as well levels the playing field - if third party companies have to do that, and cable companies don't, that would be a huge advantage for cable companies. Also, if cable companies are forced to use cable cards, then they have to make sure that the cable cards actually work; third party companies could never have enough influence for that. Apparently, cable companies did not quite make it happen, either, even though it is costing them customers. There is really no excuse for that.
That's why I am reluctant to believe that the SDV dongle for Tivo will work right for a long while; the only party that really needs it has no control over it. The others are beiung forced to do it against their interest (which serves thenm right, as SDV basically defeats the spirit of the FCC thing by making third party stuff impossible to work). Maybe FCC wil force cable companies to use the dongle as well :D

nickdawg

01-11-08, 09:54 PM

Maybe FCC wil force cable companies to use the dongle as well :D

Don't even joke about that! :D Look how bad cable card worked out for us.

nmspace

01-11-08, 10:40 PM

You might want to give it a manual reboot every few days, just in case.

That's a good idea... I'll do that. I'll check back in here when I hear from Western Digital

Satch Man

01-12-08, 05:07 AM

My SA8300HDC with TW Navigator has interrupted live TV and recordings at least twice that I know of to download some sort of cable card update. It may have done so more often but not while I was watching or recording a program.

Even Microsoft has the courtesy asks if it is OK to restart your computer so that you have time to complete what you are doing.

These people really need a lesson in how to deal with the consumer!

That they do Peter!

But at least they are updating the cable card technology, which may be the crux of so many of the problems with these new boxes. A question, did you actually get an onscreen notification that cable cards in the boxes were being updated on your box, or did you call and the CSR or voicemail said that was what they were doing?

Jack

peter144

01-12-08, 10:25 AM

That they do Peter!

A question, did you actually get an onscreen notification that cable cards in the boxes were being updated on your box,....

Jack

Yes, it was an onscreen notification after which the box restarted beginning with the word "boot" on the box display.

The recordings were stopped and restarted some 15 or so minutes later with a new recording of the rest of the program.

p

robotron2084

01-12-08, 11:09 AM

Even Microsoft has the courtesy asks if it is OK to restart your computer so that you have time to complete what you are doing.

Sorry to go off-topic, but this has been a hot button for me for a couple of years now. Sure MS asks if it's ok to reboot now or wait. However, it "waits" all of 10 minutes before asking you again - with a time-out. If you had walked away from the machine or it asks overnight and you never even saw the prompt, you lose. It reboots and everything you had running is lost. How they can get away with something that clearly results in data loss (the #1 cardinal sin in software development) is beyond me.

Anyway, just to had my SA8300HDC experience, I have not had any of the serious issues (audio dropout, lost recordings, etc) described here. I was at my brother-in-law's last night and he too has this box and said he'd had no issues. We both have Navigator 2.4.5_4 and we both have our issues with some of the functionality of Navigator compared to what we had with Passport, but no complaints with regard to stability of the box. I didn't think to ask him, but I have yet to see any attempts to perform a download. They may have occurred overnight, but I've never observed one and certainly not while recording. That would be on-par with what MS does with their updates (to bring this post full circle).

xnappo

01-12-08, 02:36 PM

Also a bit off topic - but this document of a discussion between the cable cos and Tivo is promising for the next generation Tivo:
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6519815501

Page 1 we have already discussed, but the rest has some interesting tidbits about what the future holds. Basically sounds like a reasonable compromise (gasp!) between OCAP and DCR+.

xnappo

peter144

01-12-08, 02:42 PM

Sorry to go off-topic, but this has been a hot button for me for a couple of years now. Sure MS asks if it's ok to reboot now or wait. However, it "waits" all of 10 minutes before asking you again - with a time-out. If you had walked away from the machine or it asks overnight and you never even saw the prompt, you lose. .

I know we are off topic...but I suggest that you set your computer to have Microsoft NOTIFY you when updates are available but NOT to download or install them. Ditto whatever antivirus software you use. (Norton is a real pain in that regard; once you download/install certain updates, you have to reboot immediately.)

Anyone, once you have the notification, you can decide when to download and if you have to reboot, it will be at your convenience, not theirs.

BenJF3

01-12-08, 02:44 PM

Sounds interesting, but I don't like how you have to "switch" between the Tivo DVR and cable. I would like to see a seamless integration between the two that allows for On-Demand access as well, but this is a good starting point. At least Tivo is expressing interest in working with and coming up with a solution.

BenJF3

01-12-08, 02:49 PM

Sorry to go off-topic, but this has been a hot button for me for a couple of years now. Sure MS asks if it's ok to reboot now or wait. However, it "waits" all of 10 minutes before asking you again - with a time-out. If you had walked away from the machine or it asks overnight and you never even saw the prompt, you lose. It reboots and everything you had running is lost. How they can get away with something that clearly results in data loss (the #1 cardinal sin in software development) is beyond me.

Um, Microsoft does have an option. (At least in Windows XP)

Control Panel> Automatic Updates>

1) Automatic: Downloads and installs for you

2) Downloads, but let you chose when to install

3) Notify me, but don't automatically download or install.

4) Off (Use Windows Update to install manually)

nmspace

01-12-08, 02:53 PM

Oh, that's a pain, but at least it works
So, it gets new new day guide overnight while recording?

PedjaR, just realized this was a question, not a statement... yes it gets the new day guide each night... In the diagnostics, it looks like it is getting it around 4:30 am.

robotron2084

01-12-08, 03:50 PM

I know we are off topic...but I suggest that you set your computer to have Microsoft NOTIFY you when updates are available but NOT to download or install them. Ditto whatever antivirus software you use. (Norton is a real pain in that regard; once you download/install certain updates, you have to reboot immediately.)

Anyone, once you have the notification, you can decide when to download and if you have to reboot, it will be at your convenience, not theirs.

Actually, I should have mentioned that I did eventually do that. But it required getting a tool to hack Windows because when I got my computer it was set to install automatically and the options to change it were all disabled.

robotron2084

01-12-08, 03:53 PM

Um, Microsoft does have an option. (At least in Windows XP)

Yes, but as I mentioned, those options were all disabled for me (and many people). Maybe it's something my company did, but it was a bear to re-enable them.

ETA: Here's what I see - everything disabled (though at least I have it set correctly now).
Anyway, I didn't mean to run this thread off-topic.
http://home.nc.rr.com/thevandijks/autoUpdate.JPG

Satch Man

01-12-08, 05:37 PM

PedjaR, just realized this was a question, not a statement... yes it gets the new day guide each night... In the diagnostics, it looks like it is getting it around 4:30 am.

Thanks for posting this,

Now with Passport, I get updates like this about once a week between 4-5 am. When Navigator comes, I am sure that the updates will be much more frequent but hopefully not too inconvenient. In the 20+ years with cable, and the 5 years with digital boxes cable will do this often.

Remember though that all of this data is very tightly integrated. Meaning that more and more, the updates are affecting not only the cable box/software, but all of the data on the network. (Road Runner, Digital Phone, and Digital Cable if you have all three services from TWC.) I would like to see stronger communication between the customer and the cable company as a common courtesy as to let it be known before updates are done. This is obviously, so people with advance notice of major updates, aren't recording or watching something of critical importance to them. This raises another point, and that is how many people, unknown to them that Navigator requires a longer boot time of 5-10 minutes or more, are thinking that their boxes are "broken" when an update takes an unusually long time?

Jack

BenJF3

01-12-08, 10:33 PM

Hmmm, robo.... must be something either the company or manufacturer did because I build systems and install boxed version OS without all the bloated garbage that come pre-installed with manufactured systems (IE: Dell, HP, etc.).

break7bg

01-13-08, 11:57 AM

does anyone at time warner even look at this feature ? on a 16x9 screen the box is about a 1/3 into the middle of the screen totaly wrong? it should be in the bottom corner or the top? I just cant belive it is sitting where it is you cant use it ?
anyone else see this?

I have the same problem. Techincian was here this week and got instructions from his supervisor at TWC to install an older version of an 8300 non-HDC box. The same problem existed there. So much for supervisor advice. The technician was told that this is a known bug in the Scientific Atlanta software. But, I was not given a potential fix target. So, I had the technician re-install the 8300HDC because the menus were better and more user friendly. Picture is great, but can't fathom why the PIP is recieved in 480p instead of 1080p. :(

Does anyone else know of a fix??

break7bg

01-13-08, 12:04 PM

TWC NYC Subscriber - Well I'm glad I found this forum. I'm not crazy after all. TWC refuses to admit there is anything wrong with the new box "C" box. Had two 8300 HD's from day one (running Passport) and they worked very, very well (as long as there were no signal strength problems from the street). Hard drive finally died on one and it was replaced with an 8300 HDC. What a horrible buggy operating system Mystro Navigator is.

It constantly freezes; becomes unresponsive to keypad input; reboots; does not record when it should; erases recorded shows for no (valid) reason; can't rewind a show in progress, if you're recording it as well, without first changing the channel and then going back to it; doesn't automatically search to the show you've highlighted in the program guide; no longer has subtractive keyboard lettering on search; forces you to save no less than three previous episodes of a series recording (Passport allowed one-show save and overwrite) so if (for example) you record a number of evening newscasts each day - your HD gets filled up with days of useless old-news programs that you have to manually delete; it doesn't tell you immediately if you have a recording conflict - you've got to search the list afterwords; the new "TV Guide" program guide no longer tells you if a show is a repeat - only if it is new; can't choose to record a later airing of a program (e.g: if you don't want to record the 9:00 PM version of a new "How It's Made" because you're recording two other shows at that time that only run once - well you're just out of luck unless you change it manually - and you better check the conflict list - b/c it just records the last two shows you scheduled and silently ignores the first one) - and I could go on!

What were they thinking releasing this poorly written piece of software? Not one of these issues existed in the years-old Passport software. Isn't anyone from TW monitoring the BB's? How can they not care? The operating system on the 8300HDC is a giant step backwards! No wonder there's a delay answering your service call due to "excessive call volume."
Have you found a fix to the recording inconsistencies? I was thinking that maybe the Navigator automatically deletes a recorded show if you attempt to record another one, and there is not enough memory. Is that possible? You've had about one week more experience than I have.

break7bg

01-13-08, 12:18 PM

This is a beautifully well worded letter describing all of the bugs that we have talked about. I hope that the division heads are aware of these bugs and annoyances because this REALLY hurts TWC's PR image if they were not informed about these things. Update for me, is that it appears that Navigator has been delayed in my area. (Plans were for deployment by the first of the year.) It has shown up on some non-OCAP boxes, but not on non-OCAP DVR's yet. Here in Wisconsin, we were very fortunate to have the Navigator test roll out last January and at that time, as you might have guessed it was beyond awful. (Although, I have been told not as bad as what happened when the rollout was deployed regardless of box type or model in Lincoln Nebraska.) So far, from what little information I have the recent roll-out to non-DVR's has been OK. (The non-OCAP boxes) The rollout began around the second week of December, and supposedly they are doing each roll out individually by box type to avoid conflicts and problems.

What is still unknown or at least needs further study is. Are the problems:

1.) Exclusive to OCAP (C-Boxes)? Sara uses have reported problems with OCAP. Haven't heard about Passport and OCAP

2.) Related to head ends and state network cable structures that can not handle OCAP technology?

3.) The lack of communication between the functionality of the OS (regardless of Passport, Navigator, or Sara) the OCAP boxes (predominately Scientific Atlanta (SA) ) and the cable companies?

4.) How often the head-ends of a cable system are updated, how the OS and the boxes respond to updates?

5.) The experience and competency of the engineers, programmers, and field techs, which may vary considerably from state to state and even from division to division within a state?

IF Navigator starts getting rolled out on non OCAP boxes with little or no problems than we know that it is most likely the cable cards/design of the OCAP boxes more than Navigator stability. If Navigator is problematic on the non-OCAP boxes, than Navigator is most likely the problem and should be shelved with TWC paying Passport for the updates to support SDV technology.

But having said all of this, people should not be having to go through the problems that they are having trying to be rocket scientists to get a functionally stable new box and IPG. Either TWC, the FCC, SA, or a combination of all three created a foundation and system that clearly was not tested before the deadline of July 1, 2007. This was when the FCC mandated that the cable operators must rent out Integrated Cable Card boxes. Despite what TWC says, nowhere did they say that they HAD to develop Navigator. TWC choose not to pay Passport the licensing fees to support SDV updates, which would have meant later versions of the Passport IPG. To save money, they insisted on developing their own in-house version IPG called Navigator in two versions:

1.) The first version was/is OCAP Digital Navigator, which was developed for TWC OCAP boxes and DVR's. (This is the version that you have with any C-box or DVR unit that has a C in the model number.) It's also the version causing all of the problems in divisions that have reported problems.

2.) The second version is called Mystro Digital Navigator for NON-OCAP (non-C boxes.) This is what is soon to be rolled out to my area on all non-C cable boxes and DVR's. A Milwaukee forum reported that the low memory HD Pioneer boxes get Navigator a few weeks ago downloaded to those boxes. Haven't heard of any problems so far. The early test rollouts last year were for older model Pace, and SA boxes. The download was stopped when my local office heard of the problems with Navigator in other areas. It is unknown whether these test downloads were originally designed for OCAP boxes. The test downloads were aborted in Milwaukee about March of last year due to problems.

2b.) We expect the download of Navigator to non-OCAP DVR's sometime between now and January 31st. Answers on Demand has Passport information and is leaving the line up at the end of January.

3.) A third version of Navigator is RUMORED to be in development for Sara systems sometime later next year. Others have said that TWC may release a Sara update in the interim. Sara supports SDV video now, so a move to Navigator may not be necessary. But TWC really wants one guide that they can control and regulate across state lines. They say it makes updates and consolidation of information easier, but at what expense?

The DVR downloads of Navigator as well as the remaining non-OCAP boxes will tell so much. I will never forget this quote: If technology doesn't work for people, it doesn't work at all. (This was an old advertising TV quote, and I can't remember where it was from, but it is so true!)

Jack
Thanks, Jack for your update. You have addressed all of the issues that I have experienced in the last three days. I had my second 8300HDC installed this week because twc thought the PIP problem was because of my box. WRONG!

Do you know of any work-arounds that will allow us to consistently record our shows? Does the software automatically overwrite a saved program if another program that needs its memory is requested? It would seem reasonable that if one is requesting a program to be recorded, and there is insufficient room in the memory of the box, that the user would be advised that their saved program was in "jeopardy." But, I only wrote programs that worked correctly, when I used to write software.

When I left my home today, I had several programs recorded that were waiting to be viewed. I got back from church and found that 5 or 6 of those programs were erased. Yesterday morning the remote froze. So, I rebooted. Seems to be the only way to get around that problem. What junk they coded!! Yet, we've paid for the junk!

Satch Man

01-13-08, 01:46 PM

Thanks, Jack for your update. You have addressed all of the issues that I have experienced in the last three days. I had my second 8300HDC installed this week because twc thought the PIP problem was because of my box. WRONG!

Do you know of any work-arounds that will allow us to consistently record our shows? Does the software automatically overwrite a saved program if another program that needs its memory is requested? It would seem reasonable that if one is requesting a program to be recorded, and there is insufficient room in the memory of the box, that the user would be advised that their saved program was in "jeopardy." But, I only wrote programs that worked correctly, when I used to write software.

When I left my home today, I had several programs recorded that were waiting to be viewed. I got back from church and found that 5 or 6 of those programs were erased. Yesterday morning the remote froze. So, I rebooted. Seems to be the only way to get around that problem. What junk they coded!! Yet, we've paid for the junk!

Glad to help, Break.

Can you post your location in your profile? This helps with troubleshooting/updates as they relate to Navigator's performance. The only thing that I have learned that might address your issues is that for Series Recordings, the default to save is 3. After that, unless you change the defaults, the fourth show gets erased. To change defaults, you have to go under "Record Series With Options" and select the number of episodes to record. Otherwise, the 4th show gets overwritten.

TWC Nebraska recently added a bunch of Navigator updates. I don't think these features are available in all divisions yet, but users should direct their division's management to this link for updates: It sounds like things are getting better for Navigator, but not so much on a national level: Here are some of the new updates:

http://www.timewarnercable.com/Nebraska/products/cable/mdn/Enhancements.html

Users, see what you have and don't have as it relates to your division. It seems more and more that a big problem appears to be the integrated cable cards in the C-boxes.

Few complaints in my Wisconsin division so far regarding Navigator. I think they are doing the non-OCAP (no C) Pioneer and Pace boxes now. The non-C SA boxes I think are next in our area. The DVR's are last to be upgraded, and for Wisconsin, this is scheduled before March 31, 2008. (A slight delay from the original December-January completion date.)

Break, my guess is that you have a C-model DVR for your Navigator box, right?

Jack

jnv11

01-13-08, 02:23 PM

does anyone at time warner even look at this feature ? on a 16x9 screen the box is about a 1/3 into the middle of the screen totaly wrong? it should be in the bottom corner or the top? I just cant belive it is sitting where it is you cant use it ?
anyone else see this?

This is a hardware issue in the 8300HD and 8300HDC. There is no way to make the software to instruct the hardware to do something it cannot do. In this case, the internally-generated graphics engines inside the 8300HD and 8300HDC can only generate 640x480 graphics and place the scaled video in a window inside that 640x480 grid. The problem is that 640x480 is a 4:3 resolution. You will need to wait for Time Warner Cable to adopt the Scientific Atlanta 8550HDC, whose graphics engine can output 960x540 graphics, which is a 16:9 resolution, and for Navigator to be modified to take advantage of 960x540 graphics to solve this problem.

When reading both OCAP specifications versions 1.0 and 1.1, I noticed that support for both 640x480 and 960x540 resolutions are required by the OCAP specifications, so the 8300HDC's obsolete graphics engine prevents it from attaining OCAP compliance. I am starting to wonder if there are more hardware issues in the 8300HDC that violate the OCAP specifications in more serious ways, causing Navigator to crash due to other hardware limitations that violate OCAP minimum requirements.

The OCAP specifications are found at http://www.opencable.com/ocap/. Be aware that these specifications are written as a series of modification to another specification, so they are hard to read.

peter144

01-13-08, 04:28 PM

PedjaR

01-13-08, 05:12 PM

Time Warner, NYC. SA8300HDC box.

Perhaps this has been answered but I'm still having problems.

Sony HD TV set. FOUR inputs - TIVO, DVR, BOSE DVD/Sound system; SA8300HDC box. The HDC box inputs thru HDMI. Everything else inputs thru the usual input jacks.

When I turn on the TV, the first 3 above input sources default to wide screen as they are supposed to per the TV settings for their input.

The cable box defaults to "normal" which means a smaller picture until I push the aspect button on the cable remote, usually 4 times, to get the wide screen on the TV.

The cable box is set for 16 x 9 (matches the TV); and a wide screen output.

How do I always get a wide screen from the cable box when I turn on the TV, regardless of whether I'm dealing with an SD or HD channel?

Thank you.

Mine remembers the setting - I do it through Seetings/Display/Picture Size; maybe it thinks that setting through aspect ratio button is temporary.

Also, it may be a good idea to first turn the TV on (and give it a few seconds to be ready), tune it to the HDMI input, then turn SA8300HDC on; maybe currently SA8300HDC gets no reply through HDMI and defaults to thinking TV is 4:3, then later it realizes it is not and changes that back to 16:9, but by then Picture Size has defaulted back to Normal, and SA8300HDC forgets to change that back.

Or maybe it is just that your box is buggy.

break7bg

01-13-08, 11:15 PM

adauria

01-14-08, 10:05 AM

Raleigh, NC, TWC 8300 HD

Just thought I'd add my experiences with the HDC and TWC here, as it might help some folks or at least add another piece of the puzzle.

Just got a new TV a few weeks ago, had them install a new 8300HDC (first with component, then HDMI cable, though I swapped back and forth at times to see if I was having HDMI issues - was not). The first box was complete garbage, audio dropouts, skipping video, bad pixelation at times, and reboots. Didn't have any failed recordings other than those unwatchable due to above mentioned problems.

Swapped it out for another 8300HDC. This box was much better except HD 2 channels didn't come. I went out of town, but my was here for the visit from the tech. He did, per my written request, swap the 8300HDC for the 8300HD, but never checked those 2 channels, which were still not coming in at all. The next day another tech came out (after an annoyed called by me to the support line). He figured out that the 2 missing channels were a result of the coax cable running through a (good quality) surge protector. I am not 100% convinced, but removing the surge protector from the line did solve the issue with those 2 channels so I guess I'll risk lighting frying my TV via coax.

Anyway, not to rub it in, but I am SO much happier with the Passport running 8300HD.

Now, the folks at TWC here in Raleigh keep telling me that "a major upgrade" is due on 1/22. I haven't been able to get a straight answer on whether that means an upgrade to the Navigator software or if everyone is moving to Navigator from Passport. I obviously hope for the former, but time will tell.

Does anyone know of a big Navigator upgrade this month, at least in Raleigh, NC?

-Andrew

Satch Man

01-14-08, 01:11 PM

Jack,
I am in Milwaukee. I have an SA8300HDC model which has Mystro Navigator. I am not concerned about the number of recordings because i have not recorded more than one episode of anything -- just had it a week. However, I have turned on the DVR and TV set, Samsung 40, and have found several of the shows were deleted. Does it possibly erase a program just because you requested to record another in the future? For example, if I have 6 2-hour movies recorded and I set up selections to record 6 more movies, does the DVR delete the currently recorded ones today even though the movies won't be on until next week?

Otherwise, the HDC problems everyone seems to complain about are fairly common. Now, when my technician was here on Thursday, he said the readings at my outside box were too high on the low end reading side and that a field technician would be out to adjust that. I don't know if that contributes to any of the problems. We'll see after they adjust the low end.

Jack, I am new at reading and adding to the topic, so i don't know exactly how to find your response to my questions. Also, you included a url in your reply to my question. What am I to do with that?
break7bg

Yes,

If the field tech found low signal readings that can cause problems with the box. Let us know when they adjust the signal. Your DVR should not be erasing individual recordings like that. Did the recordings just start erasing? How long has this been happening? Meanwhile, you may want to unplug your box for 10 minutes to clear out any bad data and plug it back in, and wait 5 minutes for the system to reboot.

The URL I provided is a list to updates that Lincoln Nebraska got for Navigator. This is just if you want to compare/contrast what we have with them.

I sent you a PM about your DVR issues.

Jack

break7bg

01-14-08, 05:50 PM

Yes,

If the field tech found low signal readings that can cause problems with the box. Let us know when they adjust the signal. Your DVR should not be erasing individual recordings like that. Did the recordings just start erasing? How long has this been happening? Meanwhile, you may want to unplug your box for 10 minutes to clear out any bad data and plug it back in, and wait 5 minutes for the system to reboot.

The URL I provided is a list to updates that Lincoln Nebraska got for Navigator. This is just if you want to compare/contrast what we have with them.

I sent you a PM about your DVR issues.

Jack

I read the PM. Thanks. The recordings got erased two days after it was swapped out for another HDC. I did not do anything to cause it. I have unplugged and re-booted severl times to clear stuff out. I did this when I could not change channels using the remote. That worked fine.

The technician came out last week and gave me a non-C box, but I thought it did not look as clear as the OCAP HDC. It was probably the tears in my eyes. So, he re-swapped the HDC. So, I currently have the HDC. Maybe, this one will work fine and when the field tech comes out to check the outside low end reading and adjusts it properly, maybe we'll all be happy. I will alert you here, if it continues to erase and freeze at times.

In another posting, someone suggested that the SA8550HDC will be the solution to the PIP. Will it also be the solution for all of these other nagging issues?

Break:confused::(

llabine1

01-14-08, 09:59 PM

Satch Man

01-14-08, 11:58 PM

My SA8300HDC troubles are over....yesterday I scheduled TW to come to the house to give me an amplifier....I convinced myself that this would solve some of the previous problems I had with 3 navigator boxes that I replaced last week...yes you read that correctly 3 boxes in one week....

The last Navigator Ocap box was working flawlessly....maybe that's because I asked for a new splitter and cord that I had never replaced on the back of all my DVR boxes...its the electrical cord that plugs directly into the box and plugs into the outlet I had used that same cord with all my boxes it was old ....this seemed to solve my problems...

The tech arrived at 9am and when I told him how much I regretted losing my Passport box he mentioned he had one on the truck that was directly from the warehouse...a rare new Passport box ...it even had the see through coating on the read out....I begged him for it and it was mine...woo hoo....I am in heaven...it powers down at night to silence this is the box in my bedroom two feet from my head the constant whirring of the Navigator at night made me unplug it... Passport boxes actually have a hard drive turn off at night when you turn off the box it's in the settings...heaven...it feels so much more stable....I am thrilled...

Today the boss of the tech department called me....he wanted to know first hand my experience with my 3 Ocap boxes in one week....I told him about this forum...I invited him to read all of the posts he will do that ...he told me they too are worried...TW customers are fleeing...he took my name and he is sending it to the Scientific Atlanta...he wants me to tell them my experience and I will....I will represent all of us here who are slaves to this nonsense....

So in essence my Navigator problems are gone...but they are certainly not forgotten...my week of one box not getting any HD content...another not authorizing right off the bat was frustrating and a potential deal buster for staying with TW....I have to admit the gentleman I spoke with today was not at all denying the problems...they are essentially giving customers beta products...how stupid is that...we are not guinea pigs...if I were I would request a bill reduction...so there you have it....I have a happy ending...

Wonderful news!!! And even though it's not in my division, let's give 1000 thank you's to the wonderful head tech who helped you!!!! Yes, SA needs to be more aware of the problems with these new C-boxes. There should also be some line of communications between TWC, the FCC, and SA at the national level that says, "Hey, we have to sit down here, because you know what, there are too many of these SA cable (C-Card) boxes, and especially C-DVR's, that aren't working right and something needs to be done about this, that will create an awareness at the national level. A company that has had such wonderful success with Road Runner and Digital Phone is losing business as it appears because of these cable card boxes and that is a shame. Maybe a solution is to have division heads from TWC, the FCC, and SA sit down and say, "Maybe we should go back to the non-C boxes." I don't even think the FCC is aware of the flaws in these C boxes and the loss of business represented by these flaws. SA needs to work out a solution, or go back to non-OCAP hardware until a solution for successful launch of OCAP is found. That solution needs to be positively reflected across divisions for subscribers, as well as understandable, and dependable.

Jack

jnv11

01-15-08, 04:40 AM

Wonderful news!!! And even though it's not in my division, let's give 1000 thank you's to the wonderful head tech who helped you!!!! Yes, SA needs to be more aware of the problems with these new C-boxes. There should also be some line of communications between TWC, the FCC, and SA at the national level that says, "Hey, we have to sit down here, because you know what, there are too many of these SA cable (C-Card) boxes, and especially C-DVR's, that aren't working right and something needs to be done about this, that will create an awareness at the national level. A company that has had such wonderful success with Road Runner and Digital Phone is losing business as it appears because of these cable card boxes and that is a shame. Maybe a solution is to have division heads from TWC, the FCC, and SA sit down and say, "Maybe we should go back to the non-C boxes." I don't even think the FCC is aware of the flaws in these C boxes and the loss of business represented by these flaws. SA needs to work out a solution, or go back to non-OCAP hardware until a solution for successful launch of OCAP is found. That solution needs to be positively reflected across divisions for subscribers, as well as understandable, and dependable.

Jack

Unfortunately, the FCC was stating that the cable industry and its suppliers should have been ready, so it will just tell them to lie in the bed they made by not developing OCAP soon enough and having boxes tested completely in time for the deadline it set. Since the FCC banned integrated security set-top boxes from being sold in the U.S., Scientific Atlanta and Motorola can only sell the boxes that use separable security, which is only provided today in CableCARDs. Therefore, Scientific Atlanta and Motorola cannot go back to old hardware in the U.S. In fact, in a previous post, I showed that the 8300HDC fails to attain full OCAP compliance due to a required internal graphics resolution that the 8300HDC's graphics engine does not support. I do not know if there are any other OCAP violations in the 8300HDC, especially more serious violations. It was a hack job on the 8300HD to meet the FCC separable security requirement. Hopefully, the 8550HDC will fix all of these stability problems we have been encountering that are caused by flaky noncompliant hardware. Its specs look like it was designed from the ground up for OCAP compliance from the ground up as one of its goals as far as I can tell.

For those FCC bashers among us who want more ammunition, see this editorial on dslreports.com (http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/89456) that shows that the FCC chairman has a conflict of interest that causes him to want to harm big cable as often as possible because it competes with the telephone companies, while giving the telephone companies as many breaks as possible.

My personal opinion is that the fault lies somewhat with previous administrations of the FCC willing to give breaks to anyone, the Bush crony who is the current FCC chairman, the cable companies who thought that they could delay separable security indefinitely but did not expect to run into a telephone industry stooge of an FCC chairman, and the equipment suppliers who also ran into the same stooge. I also wish that the next FCC chairman would make fair rules for all telecom companies and would give no breaks to anyone except when there is an extremely good reason like preventing a bankruptcy because compliance will put some company in enough debt that bankruptcy will occur, allowing a bankrupt company to be bought out, or to respond to some emergency that disrupts telecommunications.

rjj

01-15-08, 11:09 AM

davehancock

01-15-08, 11:44 AM

rjj

01-15-08, 12:03 PM

The problem is that your external drive is formatted to work with your previous 8300 so you need to reformat it with the new DVR (sorry all old recordings on it are gone). I don't have the specific directions for this, but suggest you take this question to the external drive forum (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12814044#post12814044).
OK...thanks. WIll do.

Riverside_Guy

01-15-08, 12:37 PM

Passport boxes actually have a hard drive turn off at night when you turn off the box it's in the settings...heaven...it feels so much more stable....I am thrilled...

Enjoy your thrills, but you should edit to say "Passport boxes where I live." The Passport TWC boxes us NYC folks have do NOT have any such provision. To get both tuners to stop spinning the HD, each one has to be set to a VOD channel (that does NOT buffer).

llabine1

01-15-08, 02:04 PM

Enjoy your thrills, but you should edit to say "Passport boxes where I live." The Passport TWC boxes us NYC folks have do NOT have any such provision. To get both tuners to stop spinning the HD, each one has to be set to a VOD channel (that does NOT buffer).

Wow Riverside sorry if I seemed to be gloating about this I had no idea that this was not something we all had...the setting I am speaking of is in Settings...more settings...power manager...hard drive power...mine is set to ..on with power...this turns off the hard drive when you turn off the box when not recording.... this was not originally on my passport boxes...about 3 months ago I saw an upgrade happening and then this setting appeared...quite frankly I have always thought that you guys in the East would get things before us in the West...

I had such a hard time with the Navigator boxes not allowing this that when I regained my Passport I could not help but be happy about it...

LL3HD

01-15-08, 02:14 PM

..quite frankly I have always thought that you guys in the East would get things before us in the West....Just the sun...:)

DVRWOODY

01-15-08, 03:31 PM

This is a feature SARA has had for years.

jnv11

01-15-08, 05:47 PM

Wow Riverside sorry if I seemed to be gloating about this I had no idea that this was not something we all had...the setting I am speaking of is in Settings...more settings...power manager...hard drive power...mine is set to ..on with power...this turns off the hard drive when you turn off the box when not recording.... this was not originally on my passport boxes...about 3 months ago I saw an upgrade happening and then this setting appeared...quite frankly I have always thought that you guys in the East would get things before us in the West...

I had such a hard time with the Navigator boxes not allowing this that when I regained my Passport I could not help but be happy about it...

This feature was always here in the Raleigh/Durham/Fayetteville, NC division's Passport Echo boxes since at least December 2006. I set it up to keep the disk turned on only when it is on, spinning up in preparation to record a scheduled recording, or when it is recording. I initially activated this feature because I wanted to save power, avoid losing recordings due to hard disk file system corruption caused by somewhat frequent power outages in Cary (this bad situation went away after WRAL reported on it, embarrasing Progress Energy enough to finally fix the problem), and to be nice to the family Chihuahua who sleeps near the television.

EDIT:The title is missing the words "Cary, NC". Sorry.

roadwarrior980

01-15-08, 08:34 PM

Can anyone help me with what their recommended settings are for this cable box (I think the full series is Explorer 8240 HDC)? What I have seen so far with my set up (using HDMI to a 42D64U) and optical cable to an Onkyo receiver, but the PQ from my channels is not all that impressive, and I can't seem to find the settings or set up that will give me the best results (they did not give me a manual either)...it seems to only output 1080i, and the picture doesnt seem to want to fill the screen the way it should...

I am still new to the HDTV world...can anyone give me some tips? Thanks

llabine1

01-15-08, 10:14 PM

hi Road Warrior I found a site that has the manual for your box here it is

http://www.scientificatlanta.com/products/consumers/userguidepdfs/4010318.pdf

hope that helps......

robotron2084

01-15-08, 10:38 PM

hi Road Warrior I found a site that has the manual for your box here it is

http://www.scientificatlanta.com/products/consumers/userguidepdfs/4010318.pdf

hope that helps......

That seems to be the non-HD version. Docs for the HDC can be found here:

http://www.scientificatlanta.com/products/consumers/new_explorer8240HDCDVR.htm

phousley

01-16-08, 12:47 PM

holl_ands

01-16-08, 01:05 PM

Hi guys,

Hope this is the right thread for this question.....

I wonder if someone out there can help me out. Last week TWC in San Diego forced a firmware upgrade (Navigator, I think) that my 8300HDC (with external 750MB HD) did not react well to. It has required cold reboots evry few hours since then. Well, yesterday the tech came out and swapped my 8300HDC for one of the older 8300HD models. After everything got hooked back up, I noticed that the 8300HD did not appear to recognize the existence of my external HD (diagnostics only showed about 150MB of space). No request to format the drive after reboots either. The diagnostics seemed to suggest that the SATA port was active. Any suggestions??

Thanks.
Since recordings are encrypted and keyed to a specific DVR, you've lost
whatever programs are on the eSATA.

You can REMOVE all partitions on the eSATA HDD by connecting to a PC.

In WinXP, double click on "Computer Management" under Control Panel/Administrative Tools.
Click on "Disk Management" under "Storage" to see partition status for all drives.
If I remember correctly (???), eSATA HDD should show up under "Removable Storage".
Right Click on the Removable (eSATA) drive to display menu with "Delete Partition".

Make sure you recognize (and AVOID) your WinXP system drive....

PS: When I had a problem with my eSATA HDD,
WinXP could see the removable drive, but it declared an error
when trying to partition/reformat....hence it was a bad drive.
Since my eSATA HDD also had a USB I/F, it was easy
to connect to my laptop....

rjj

01-16-08, 02:08 PM

Since recordings are encrypted and keyed to a specific DVR, you've lost
whatever programs are on the eSATA.

You can REMOVE all partitions on the eSATA HDD by connecting to a PC.

In WinXP, double click on "Computer Management" under Control Panel/Administrative Tools.
Click on "Disk Management" under "Storage" to see partition status for all drives.
If I remember correctly (???), eSATA HDD should show up under "Removable Storage".
Right Click on the Removable (eSATA) drive to display menu with "Delete Partition".

Make sure you recognize (and AVOID) your WinXP system drive....

PS: When I had a problem with my eSATA HDD,
WinXP could see the removable drive, but it declared an error
when trying to partition/reformat....hence it was a bad drive.
Since my eSATA HDD also had a USB I/F, it was easy
to connect to my laptop....

Thanks for the response.

Are you saying that I need to remove the existing partition on the removable drive before an 8300HD or 8300HDC will once again see the drive?

Satch Man

01-16-08, 03:08 PM

Anyone from Wisconsin might be especially interested in this story. (Well, all of you! This is the greatest cable forum on the Internet!)

For years, TWC-Wisconsin has charged an extra $6.95/mo to receive their corresponding Premium on Demand Channels on the condition that you must subscribe to the premium channel first or already be included in a higher-level package that provides this option. I had the old Digi Pic 1000 with HBO/Showtime. (No premium on Demand.)

In December, I received a flier that TWC would now include all Premium on Demand Channels provided that you subscribe to the base channels and that this change would happen when subs received their December statements.

However, on my box, it still shows the $6.95/Mo charge, so I called TWC to find out that yes, Premium on Demand is now included as a bonus with Premium Channel subscriptions. The CSR updated my billing codes, rebooted the box several times, but it never went through. She said that I could set up a service call to test the signals to the box, perhaps have the box swiped, or try more reboots. We determined that I am not being charged extra for the On Demand service. Pressing the B for Buy just says, "Your subscription can not be processed at this time. If the problem persists, call customer service." All the other Free on Demand Channels, all other cable channels work fine. The picture and DVR is excellent.

I don't want a service call for this on-Demand issue because for obvious reasons, I will than most likely get stuck with an OCAP-Navigator (C box DVR) But wouldn't it be funny if when Navigator got installed to my existing non-C box (sometime around March) that the Premium On Demand Channels WORKED!!!! I wonder if because Passport being so old, and because TWC refuses to update Passport if this could be the culprit?

So my question for subscribers is, how many of you subscribe to a premium channel, but it still says to order the On Demand channel for $6.95/mo when you go to that channel? If this applies to you, is this on a Passport box or Passport DVR? Or a Navigator box or DVR? If you got that card last month about Premium on Demand being available with your base premium channel (s), did this change for you if you had not previously subscribed? How did this condition affect you if it did on a Navigator box?

I am going to wait until I have another issue with the box and than mention, "Oh, BTW My Premium on Demand Channels don't work." It's not a big deal to me. I never had it before so I can't miss what I didn't have. I just wonder if any users out there have my same issue.

Jack

Riverside_Guy

01-16-08, 03:31 PM

Around here, one has to subscribe to at least 2 premiums to get the PODs for free. EXCEPT that TWC refuses to carry Starz POD. I've read stories about fighting between Starz and TWC over this issue... according to what I read, Starz very much WANTS their customers to get a part of the service they are paying for. Part of it was that the "price" we pay for the service is SUPPOSED to include their POD channel.

PedjaR

01-16-08, 03:44 PM

Data point from Columbus, Ohio. Received upgrade to my Navigator SW last night.

Previous:

BootStrapper Version: 2.4.3 2007/05/14 12:27
Network Version 2.4.5_4 2007/08/29 15:19
Monitor Version 2.4.5_4 2007/08/29 15:19
ODN Version 2.4.5_4 2007/08/29 15:19

Now:

BootStrapper Version: 2.4.6_1 2007/09/20 09:56
Network Version 2.4.8_2 2007/11/27 09:59
Monitor Version 2.4.8_2 2007/11/27 09:59
ODN Version 2.4.8_2 2007/11/27 09:59

I have not noticed any functional differences yet.

See http://www.timewarnercable.com/Nebraska/products/cable/mdn/Enhancements.html for new features that are supposed to be there. Especially "Record Series With Options" picture #4; "Show and Series Prioritization" - For Series; and "Banner Size and Duration"
Also, do you have an eSATA drive connected to the box? 2.4.8_2 is supposed to not work with at least some drives that had no issues with 2.4.5_4.

PedjaR

01-16-08, 03:49 PM

phousley

01-16-08, 04:31 PM

See http://www.timewarnercable.com/Nebraska/products/cable/mdn/Enhancements.html for new features that are supposed to be there. Especially "Record Series With Options" picture #4; "Show and Series Prioritization" - For Series; and "Banner Size and Duration"
Also, do you have an eSATA drive connected to the box? 2.4.8_2 is supposed to not work with at least some drives that had no issues with 2.4.5_4.Yeah, I had already looked specifically for the features documented in the Nebraska document. I have none of them. Also, I do have an esata drive and tried a 10 minute recording; no problem. As near as I can tell, there's no features added with the update.

PedjaR

01-16-08, 05:22 PM

Yeah, I had already looked specifically for the features documented in the Nebraska document. I have none of them. Also, I do have an esata drive and tried a 10 minute recording; no problem. As near as I can tell, there's no features added with the update.

The eSATA issues are of the type: "turned DVR off overnight; when turned back on, all hell broke lose (probably due to eSATA spindown and then not spin up on time)"; please let us know if it works overnight, and exactly which drive it is (some drives may not spin down, hence no issue).

phousley

01-16-08, 05:37 PM

The eSATA issues are of the type: "turned DVR off overnight; when turned back on, all hell broke lose (probably due to eSATA spindown and then not spin up on time)"; please let us know if it works overnight, and exactly which drive it is (some drives may not spin down, hence no issue).I'll give it a try, but I'm having enough other problems with my DVR that it may not be conclusive. Also, my disk does not spin down, but the system has always gone through a lengthy delay when powered on that, if I didn't know better, appears like it's waiting for it to spin up. In fact, the LED, which is normally lit, goes out during the delay.

Satch Man

01-16-08, 06:22 PM

PedjaR

01-16-08, 09:56 PM

I'll give it a try, but I'm having enough other problems with my DVR that it may not be conclusive. Also, my disk does not spin down, but the system has always gone through a lengthy delay when powered on that, if I didn't know better, appears like it's waiting for it to spin up. In fact, the LED, which is normally lit, goes out during the delay.

The symptoms two other people had after upgrade to 2.4.8_2 should be fairly conclusive (note: they had the same type of eSATA drive):

- every so often (maybe every few hours) if it has nothing to record and you are not watching something, goes to sleep and it won't wake up without a reboot (and it is always like that first thing in the morning); could be avoided by keeping it awake (by making it record continuosly).

- disconnect eSATA, works fine (except that you lost your shows that happened to be stored there)

Satch Man

01-16-08, 10:03 PM

Seems to be fixed! Although I haven't watched any shows yet, it most likely took a day for it to go through or they sent someone out.

Jack

Ugghhh!!! ALL of On Demand is down.

Jack

BenJF3

01-16-08, 10:42 PM

Just a note, but a typical problem resulting in loss of On Demand features is signal oss/low signal level. I just did an HD install this week in which the person added a set in his basement rec room. He initially hooked the box up to test it and the VOD didn't work and there was significant pixelation and breakup. Upon futher inspection, I found old RG-59 wiring, multiple splitters, and an old analog amp on the line. I eliminated the old (900Mhz) ones with digital ready (1000Mhz and up) also consolidating two 2-ways into one three way and amping (again digital ready with return path) the 4-way at the other end of the house. The end result was his levels went from -17bd to a level 0db and improved picture on all sets as well as the VOD working as it should. I was happy that the customer was in awe of the HD picture I got him after a little fine tuning. He is now ready for the Super Bowl. I did some extra wiring for him and setup his surround and got tipped an extra $30 for going over everything with him! It was a lengthy job, but the end result was worth it as I already got a referral from this individual.

Satch Man

01-16-08, 10:54 PM

strikefast

01-16-08, 11:42 PM

xnappo

01-17-08, 05:16 AM

The Wall Street Journal just posted an article regarding the cable set-top box landscape. In it, they mention that TWC already has 400K Samsung boxes deployed. Seems like I remember an earlier post in this thread where a CSR told someone that Samsung boxes were coming to TWC. I wonder if these are running Navigator...

The Samsung boxes don't have any native software - they are OCAP only as far as I know - so they are most likely running Navigator. The ones TWC is using are not DVRs though.

xnappo

strikefast

01-17-08, 07:07 AM

Yeah, I had already looked specifically for the features documented in the Nebraska document. I have none of them. Also, I do have an esata drive and tried a 10 minute recording; no problem. As near as I can tell, there's no features added with the update.

Aside from the possibility of new Navigator features, I wonder if this release addresses any of the HDMI connectivity issues that others have observed with the earlier version?

Blue_Rage

01-17-08, 07:47 AM

peter144

01-17-08, 10:36 AM

Last night, we were recording TWO programs (both HD) and watching a third PRE RECORDED program. This is permitted because we were only using two tuners.

Anyhow, sometime during the evening, the box stopped recording BOTH programs it was supposed to be recording. We found out when we check later to find that one had recorded 15 minutes outof 2 hours and thei other, about 1 1/2 hours out of two hours.

My suspicion is that, when fast forwarding thru the commercials, I inadvertantly pushed the "green" button instead of the "play" button on the remote (very easy to do) and the box stopped recording to switch to the channel on the tuner. I thought there was supposed to be some sort of a safeguard but perhaps not.

In any event, be warned...if you are recording two programs, be very careful about what you are trying to watch at the same time, even if it is an already recorded program, or you could easily have the new recordings cancelled.

Riverside_Guy

01-17-08, 12:44 PM

HuskerHarley

01-17-08, 01:59 PM

I was just talking to one of my friend's and he told me that his TW-DVR was freezing up and having to reboot almost every day (Same old sh!t for the majority here in Lincoln)

...Anyway the TW tech comes out and tells him that the problem is because he is feeding the cable to his surge protector and then to his TW-DVR. The tech wired directly to the box and left!!!

He informed him that the box would fry if a surge got that far and not harm any thing else in the chain because it's grounded to his outside electrical pipe that houses the main wires to his home.

I don't know enough about surges or lighting strikes (directly to the Cable from pole to house) but won't the surge if it doesn't find a proper ground continue through the TW-DVR and out through the HDMI connection into his receiver and then travel to the TV damaging everything?

I can't wait till I speak to him tomorrow to see if his box is still needing annoying reboots...

HH

peter144

01-17-08, 02:55 PM

You have probably come across some who ask that you need to list your equipment in a signature. In NYC, TWC has DVRs with Passport and DVRs with the software that is the subject of the thread. If you have an 8300HD we know that it's Passport, if you have a 8300 HDC, you have the other software.

Time Warner, New York City. SA8300HDC. Navigator Software. HD TV set with inputs from the SA Box (HDMI) and from TIVO, a DVR and a BOSE sound system (includes DVD/CD player).

BenJF3

01-17-08, 03:19 PM

I don't know enough about surges or lighting strikes (directly to the Cable from pole to house) but won't the surge if it doesn't find a proper ground continue through the TW-DVR and out through the HDMI connection into his receiver and then travel to the TV damaging everything?

I can't wait till I speak to him tomorrow to see if his box is still needing annoying reboots...
HH

When it comes to power surges or spikes the only way to really protect your equipment is to unplug BOTH the cable line AND the power cords. Either one can pass a surge or spike through and current will flow until it finds ground. This was what I always used to inform my customers when I was in the repair business, but that fact is most people don't bother because of the inconvenience.

indy29

01-17-08, 03:27 PM

Thanks; I am curious to see if the stuff mentioned on Nebraska site (http://www.timewarnercable.com/Nebraska/products/cable/mdn/Enhancements.html) is there, specifically:

- Series Prioritization
- Time slot series scheduling, it is the fourth item under "Record Series with Options"
- Banner Size and Duration
- Show List Icons (this one you can't really see unless you DVR is near full, I guess), also part 2 under Hard Drive Gas Gauge
Nope on all of these. Unless I'm just not seeing them. What *IS* there is the 15 minute skip ahead/back. (By holding down the (<<) or (>>) button).

Also, I'm still not able to get my box to reliably work with my eSata drive connected. So for now, I'm doing without the extra storage.

robotron2084

01-17-08, 04:15 PM

adauria

01-17-08, 04:40 PM

When it comes to power surges or spikes the only way to really protect your equipment is to unplug BOTH the cable line AND the power cords. Either one can pass a surge or spike through and current will flow until it finds ground. This was what I always used to inform my customers when I was in the repair business, but that fact is most people don't bother because of the inconvenience.

Funny, I had a TWC guy out here last week because my 8300HD wasn't getting 2 HD channels. He claimed the surge protector was doing something like "frequency cancelling" with that 2 channels and that I was also safe by skipping the protector. What BS (at least about the safe part).

-Andrew

BenJF3

01-17-08, 05:15 PM

Just a quick off-topic question that I was curious about...

Not sure if this applies to TWC in general or just in my area, but does anyone know why TWC "duplicates" some channels? For example, what's the difference between the Science Channel on 111 vs. 357 or Discovery Kids on 110 vs. 354? Seems there's a bunch of "repeat" channels in the 300 range.

Furthermore, I have CenterIce which is on channels 731-744 but when I do a search for games, there seems to be an NHLSWD1 (772) and NHLSWD2 (773) though those channels aren't included in the guide.

Anyway, just curious about these channel "oddities".

This is one of the biggest reasons why I want a customizable guide! In our our market some channels appear 4 to 5 times over! It's ridiculous that you have to run through the guide (that now has tiers into the 1900's) with the same channels over and over again. I know some channels are the digital equivalent of the analog feed and have better PQ, but I should be able to map the guide however I chose. Personally, I'd use all the digital ones.

davehancock

01-17-08, 06:22 PM

Just a quick off-topic question that I was curious about...

Not sure if this applies to TWC in general or just in my area, but does anyone know why TWC "duplicates" some channels? For example, what's the difference between the Science Channel on 111 vs. 357 or Discovery Kids on 110 vs. 354? Seems there's a bunch of "repeat" channels in the 300 range.

Furthermore, I have CenterIce which is on channels 731-744 but when I do a search for games, there seems to be an NHLSWD1 (772) and NHLSWD2 (773) though those channels aren't included in the guide.

Anyway, just curious about these channel "oddities".Not really sure why they do that (make it look like there are more channels than there are, or just to organize channels by "type". Generally, these are really not "duplicates", they are really the same channel - it's just that cable loads a map into your cable box that points to the actual channel, so, for example, channel 111 and 357 may both point to QAM channel 89 (651MHz).

While I said that they aren't really "duplicating" channels, I should point out that many (most all) cable systems are "simulcasting" many of their channels. By this I mean that they may have, for example, Discovery (SD) on analog cable at channel 36 (297Mhz) and also in digital form (still SD) on QAM 92 at 633Mhz. Because they can put 12 or so SD digital channels on one QAM (which takes the same space as 1 SD analog channel), they aren't taking up much space when they do this.

robotron2084

01-17-08, 06:43 PM

I know some channels are the digital equivalent of the analog feed and have better PQ

Is there a way to know which is which? From the program guide, it seemed they were identical. Seems odd that the Science Channel which comes as part of the digital tier, would have an analog feed AND a digital feed. Why? I can understand it when we get the local channels plus have the "SD" equivalent in the 200's range alongside the HD version.

Satch Man

01-17-08, 07:10 PM

Funny, I had a TWC guy out here last week because my 8300HD wasn't getting 2 HD channels. He claimed the surge protector was doing something like "frequency canceling" with that 2 channels and that I was also safe by skipping the protector. What BS (at least about the safe part).

-Andrew

Andrew,

Man! That guy was an idiot!!! I had another clown years ago that said, "you shouldn't plug your cable box into your surge protector, but directly into the wall because "our boxes are not designed for that!!!" I was like WTF??? Um....OK, go back to high school and get your diploma!

Can you get those two HD channels now? This could be an amperage issue. Did the clown you have run signal tests on your box and check the drop pole. What are the channels that aren't coming in?

Jack

rdgcss

01-17-08, 08:09 PM

holl_ands

01-17-08, 11:17 PM

Funny, I had a TWC guy out here last week because my 8300HD wasn't getting 2 HD channels. He claimed the surge protector was doing something like "frequency cancelling" with that 2 channels and that I was also safe by skipping the protector. What BS (at least about the safe part).

-Andrew
Yes, a Coax Surge Protector slowly degrades and can indeed cause VSWR problems
on some channels and not others...esp higher channels:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8591196&#post8591196
So if you're having problems, do a quick test by bypassing the Coax Surge Protector.

BenJF3

01-17-08, 11:25 PM

Back to Navigator: Some interesting information is coming out of TWC in our market. I have yet to confirm this, but another member stated TWC is announcing a system wide deployment of Switched Digital Video. We were under the impression that this was going to happen AFTER Navigator was in place seeing as how SDV was one of the big issues. Now, keep in mind that we are on SARA based software which supports SDV and this has me wondering what has becoming of our 1st quarter 08' deployment date? Has Navigator been shelved? As I get more solid info, I will report.

knadsady

01-17-08, 11:30 PM

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but how do I access the diagnostics screen for my 8300HDC? I read in a previous post to press and hold the Select button on the front panel til the Mail icon starts blinking, then hit the Ch- button. When I do that the LED display shows d-1, but I don't see any diagnostics displayed on the TV screen. Am I doing something wrong?

I am having trouble with the sound cutting out briefly but often during DVR playback and I want to see what versions of software I have. Thanks.

holl_ands

01-17-08, 11:40 PM

On many TWC systems, there is a particular channel containing version number.
On TWC-SD it's CH998.....and CH1777 enters extended diagnostic menu (at least for PASSPORT).

Search around by trying some of the odd-ball "unused" channel numbers.

knadsady

01-17-08, 11:51 PM

Thanks, I looked through the channels and do not see one that displays any version or diagnostic info. I am in Northeast Ohio. ANy other ideas?

PedjaR

01-18-08, 12:18 AM

Thanks, I looked through the channels and do not see one that displays any version or diagnostic info. I am in Northeast Ohio. ANy other ideas?

Press and hold Select on the remote until Mail icon starts blinking on the box; then press arrow down on the remote.

knadsady

01-18-08, 12:24 AM

Press and hold Select on the remote until Mail icon starts blinking on the box; then press arrow down on the remote.

As I stated in my previous post, I tried that, but I just get a "d-1" in the LED display, and the TV display keeps showing the regular programming. What should happen after the button sequences you describe?

robotron2084

01-18-08, 01:03 AM

As I stated in my previous post, I tried that, but I just get a "d-1" in the LED display, and the TV display keeps showing the regular programming. What should happen after the button sequences you describe?

In your previous post you said you pressed the Ch- button. That is not the same as the down arrow. So which did you actually try?

ETA: I did try the Channel down key and it still entered the diagnostics for me, but also changed the channel. Hitting Select again after exiting the diagnostics returned me to the original channel. The "d-1" is interesting because it seems like it's "trying". We see "d1AG".

davehancock

01-18-08, 10:02 AM

We were under the impression that this was going to happen AFTER Navigator was in place seeing as how SDV was one of the big issues. Now, keep in mind that we are on SARA based software which supports SDV and this has me wondering what has becoming of our 1st quarter 08' deployment date? Has Navigator been shelved? As I get more solid info, I will report.Ben, if that was your impression then I've really got to question the source of your information.

SDV has been talked about LONG before they started to roll-out Navigator. SDV was supposedly one of the reasons that TW wanted Navigator in Passport markets, but it NEVER was a reason to bring Navigator into SARA markets.

adauria

01-18-08, 11:00 AM

Andrew,

Man! That guy was an idiot!!! I had another clown years ago that said, "you shouldn't plug your cable box into your surge protector, but directly into the wall because "our boxes are not designed for that!!!" I was like WTF??? Um....OK, go back to high school and get your diploma!

Can you get those two HD channels now? This could be an amperage issue. Did the clown you have run signal tests on your box and check the drop pole. What are the channels that aren't coming in?

Jack

Thanks for responding. I do get those 2 channels and have not plugged the coax back into the surge protector, though I would like to. Unfortunately, I was out of town when the guy was here and my wife was too busy with the kids to watch what we was doing. The channels were 211 (ABC HD) and 250 (Fox HD) here in Raleigh, NC.

Do you have any suggestions for me to try? Thanks!

-Andrew

adauria

01-18-08, 11:01 AM

Yes, a Coax Surge Protector slowly degrades and can indeed cause VSWR problems
on some channels and not others...esp higher channels:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8591196&#post8591196
So if you're having problems, do a quick test by bypassing the Coax Surge Protector.

Thanks for the info. See my post above. It does now work and it did affect relatively "high" channels. Any strategies that might protect my TV during a t-storm, short of unplugging the coax?

-Andrew

indy29

01-18-08, 11:08 AM

Riverside_Guy

01-18-08, 02:03 PM

Has Navigator been shelved?

I see several hundred thousand AVSers crossing every finger and toe on that one!!

We should be so lucky that it turns into reality...

BenJF3

01-18-08, 02:51 PM

Ben, if that was your impression then I've really got to question the source of your information.

SDV has been talked about LONG before they started to roll-out Navigator. SDV was supposedly one of the reasons that TW wanted Navigator in Passport markets, but it NEVER was a reason to bring Navigator into SARA markets.

I'm aware that SARA is able to handle SDV. The info came from a TWC VP via email. He said that they wanted to deploy Navigator in light of the upcoming conversion to the switched digital video system. (albeit this was awhile ago) He never claimed it was the reason for doing it, just that it was supposed to happen before it. I got the same info from other TWC employees via email queries. It could be that this was just the company line at the time. Anyhow, we will know by March/April if the Q1 deployment date he gave for Navigator is correct or not.

Satch Man

01-18-08, 03:50 PM

Thanks for the info. See my post above. It does now work and it did affect relatively "high" channels. Any strategies that might protect my TV during a t-storm, short of unplugging the coax?

-Andrew

How old is the surge protector? If it's a really good TV and audio equipment, maybe you should just buy another surge protector. I would only keep it plugged directly into the wall on a temporary basis. (It is best to have that extra protection.) I have had a Monster Cable surge protector for about nine years and it works great. The little power light blinks (lose bulb I was told--nothing to worry about.) But it's great. It ran about $50 when I got it back around 1999.

Jack

nmspace

01-18-08, 06:18 PM

The symptoms two other people had after upgrade to 2.4.8_2 should be fairly conclusive (note: they had the same type of eSATA drive):

- every so often (maybe every few hours) if it has nothing to record and you are not watching something, goes to sleep and it won't wake up without a reboot (and it is always like that first thing in the morning); could be avoided by keeping it awake (by making it record continuosly).

- disconnect eSATA, works fine (except that you lost your shows that happened to be stored there)

I heard back from Western Digital support. I had emailed them asking if there was some way I could force the drive not to spindown. Their response was that their 'iternal' eSATA drives did not spin down automatically, and that I should contact my external enclosure manufacturer. I'm using an Antec MX-1. So now I'm actualy wondering if the drive is spinning down. Unfortunately I can't really tell when just listening to it closely - the Antec large fan makes enough soft noise that when I put my ear near it, that's about all I hear.

PedjaR, therefore I'm thinking we may have one or the other situation here:
a. It is indeed a problem with the drive spinning down, and my Antec enclosure pcb board is doing a spindown command to the drive... (I find this unlikely???).

b. the problem is something other than the drive spinning down. Something in this version of Navigator after some period of inactivity within the HDC is causing the problem when there is an eSATA attached. This can be circumvented (on my machine at least - I don't think anyone else has reported in that they've tried this), by recording something 24x7.

thoughts? Perhaps it is time for me to call into TWC support and report the problem so that it's on file - in case that helps.

nmspace

01-18-08, 06:23 PM

Just a quick note. I am one of those who reported this problem here earlier. To clarify, it has happened with two seperate HD's. A WD and a Seagate, that's why I've given up on 2.4.8_2:mad:

And I'm the other one :) -- When you say you've given up on 2.4.8_2, did you find a way to backlevel the firmware? ... I'd be happy going back to the previous version if possible.

DVRWOODY

01-18-08, 06:50 PM

davehancock

01-18-08, 07:05 PM

PedjaR

01-18-08, 07:08 PM

I heard back from Western Digital support. I had emailed them asking if there was some way I could force the drive not to spindown. Their response was that their 'iternal' eSATA drives did not spin down automatically, and that I should contact my external enclosure manufacturer. I'm using an Antec MX-1. So now I'm actualy wondering if the drive is spinning down. Unfortunately I can't really tell when just listening to it closely - the Antec large fan makes enough soft noise that when I put my ear near it, that's about all I hear.

PedjaR, therefore I'm thinking we may have one or the other situation here:
a. It is indeed a problem with the drive spinning down, and my Antec enclosure pcb board is doing a spindown command to the drive... (I find this unlikely???).

b. the problem is something other than the drive spinning down. Something in this version of Navigator after some period of inactivity within the HDC is causing the problem when there is an eSATA attached. This can be circumvented (on my machine at least - I don't think anyone else has reported in that they've tried this), by recording something 24x7.

thoughts? Perhaps it is time for me to call into TWC support and report the problem so that it's on file - in case that helps.

Call in, you never know, although their answer is likely to be that the exta drive is not supported. Maybe if you get somebody sufficiently high, he/she may be able to help or at least register that there is an issue. I am getting nervous that one day, soon, I'll get upgraded to 2.4.8_2 and the external drive will not work any more and 2/3 of my shows will be gone. Well, thanks to you I can at least try to record something 24/7. If that SDV dongle would be operational and stable, TivoHD would be looking better every second.

Blue_Rage

01-18-08, 10:16 PM

And I'm the other one :) -- When you say you've given up on 2.4.8_2, did you find a way to backlevel the firmware? ... I'd be happy going back to the previous version if possible.

No, I've just given up trying to use an eSATA. If I could somehow backlevel I would also.

Blue_Rage

01-18-08, 10:20 PM

I heard back from Western Digital support. I had emailed them asking if there was some way I could force the drive not to spindown. Their response was that their 'iternal' eSATA drives did not spin down automatically, and that I should contact my external enclosure manufacturer. I'm using an Antec MX-1. So now I'm actualy wondering if the drive is spinning down. Unfortunately I can't really tell when just listening to it closely - the Antec large fan makes enough soft noise that when I put my ear near it, that's about all I hear.

PedjaR, therefore I'm thinking we may have one or the other situation here:
a. It is indeed a problem with the drive spinning down, and my Antec enclosure pcb board is doing a spindown command to the drive... (I find this unlikely???).

b. the problem is something other than the drive spinning down. Something in this version of Navigator after some period of inactivity within the HDC is causing the problem when there is an eSATA attached. This can be circumvented (on my machine at least - I don't think anyone else has reported in that they've tried this), by recording something 24x7.

thoughts? Perhaps it is time for me to call into TWC support and report the problem so that it's on file - in case that helps.

I am going to lean towards B here. I have tried two seperate drives, as well as two seperate enclosures and I still get the "go to sleep, never wake up" problem. I'm thinking opening up the HDC and dropping a drive in it might be my next option.

knadsady

01-19-08, 12:41 AM

He means the down arrow just under the SEL button on most standard remotes used by the 8300 HDC.

I tried the remote Select and down arrow on the remote and I could not get the Mail icon to show up. The only thing that got the Mail icon to blink was holding the Select button on the front panel of the unit, and then hitting the down arrow on the remote just changed the channel. After trying lots of other buttons, I found that hitting the Info button on either the front panel or the remote after the Mail icon was blinking (via Select on frnt panel), my unit displays 58 pages of diagnostics.

Here are a few that have some version info on it. Can anyone tell me if the audio problem I am having might be related to one of the versions of firmware this unit has? The audio cuts out briefly during DVR playback.

PedjaR

01-19-08, 12:57 AM

I tried the remote Select and down arrow on the remote and I could not get the Mail icon to show up. The only thing that got the Mail icon to blink was holding the Select button on the front panel of the unit, and then hitting the down arrow on the remote just changed the channel. After trying lots of other buttons, I found that hitting the Info button on either the front panel or the remote after the Mail icon was blinking (via Select on frnt panel), my unit displays 58 pages of diagnostics.

Here are a few that have some version info on it. Can anyone tell me if the audio problem I am having might be related to one of the versions of firmware this unit has? The audio cuts out briefly during DVR playback.

The pictures explain it, you've got SARA, not Navigator.
Apparently, brief audio dropouts are frequent 8300HDC issue whatever software is on it.

Riverside_Guy

01-19-08, 08:48 AM

How old is the surge protector? If it's a really good TV and audio equipment, maybe you should just buy another surge protector. I would only keep it plugged directly into the wall on a temporary basis. (It is best to have that extra protection.) I have had a Monster Cable surge protector for about nine years and it works great. The little power light blinks (lose bulb I was told--nothing to worry about.) But it's great. It ran about $50 when I got it back around 1999.

Jack

I was told many years ago by en engineer pal (a very smart engineer I must add) that if I buy 50 dollar "surge protectors" that I should replace them every 6 months. Apparently at that price, they use some part that is very cheap and very chintzy (he likens it to the filament in a fuse). The far more expensive ones use completely different technology to do their stuff and those WILL last a good long while.

Riverside_Guy

01-19-08, 08:52 AM

Just wondering if Navigator is being put on the backburner in Sara areas.I spoke to a csr (for whatever they know) and was told no change was planned for the sara software for the forseeable future and upgrades were being talked about I have learned to take what they tell me with a HUGE grain of salt. Maybe the sara navigator version is not working or is a failure.Here's hopeing. Sara 1.89.17.1 Greensboro NC

Not quite backburner, but second in deployment to Passport areas. The logic was SDV is THE most important thing, SARA already has it functioning and the decision was NOT to upgrade Passport to do it, but go with a single platform because they could have one non-english speaking guy in a remote village in one of the 'stans write it for next to nothing.

The ONLY thing on the "backburner" for TWC is the customer base.

Satch Man

01-19-08, 08:51 PM

nickdawg

01-20-08, 02:13 AM

Question,

For those of you with Navigator and C-boxes, do you leave your box on or do you power them off so that they go off with the TV? With Passport, I have my POWER button set to turn the TV/DVR on/off simultaneously (as preinstalled.)

SA recommends having the box turn on/off with the TV. I was wondering for those of you with missed recordings and C-boxes, whether Navigator or otherwise, what has been your best workaround for dealing with missed recordings?

Jack

When I had the 8300HDC I turned off the TV and the box. TV+Power, CBL+Power.

How are you turning off the TV with the box? Do you have the TV plugged into the "convenience outlet" on the back of the box? I used to do that with my Sony SDTV.

That can't be done with HDTVs. They usually have three prong plugs and take time to "warm up" after a power outage or unplugged.

I push TV+Power/CBL+Power.

jnv11

01-20-08, 11:25 AM

When I had the 8300HDC I turned off the TV and the box. TV+Power, CBL+Power.

How are you turning off the TV with the box? Do you have the TV plugged into the "convenience outlet" on the back of the box? I used to do that with my Sony SDTV.

That can't be done with HDTVs. They usually have three prong plugs and take time to "warm up" after a power outage or unplugged.

I push TV+Power/CBL+Power.

I have a Universal Remote UR5-8400 which TWC provided with our cable box. This remote's sales brochure is at this link. (http://www.universalremote.com/product_detail.php?model=89&cat=Scientific%20Atlanta&ana=Digital) I have it programmed to send the power codes for the cable box and the television one after another when I press the red-lettered system power button. I think that is what the other poster means.

Find the model number for your remote, and you might be able to program it to do this job when you use the model number to find its manual on the Internet.

Satch Man

01-20-08, 01:30 PM

When I had the 8300HDC I turned off the TV and the box. TV+Power, CBL+Power.

How are you turning off the TV with the box? Do you have the TV plugged into the "convenience outlet" on the back of the box? I used to do that with my Sony SDTV.

That can't be done with HDTVs. They usually have three prong plugs and take time to "warm up" after a power outage or unplugged.

I push TV+Power/CBL+Power.

My power button turns both TV/DVR on and off. However, you have to shoot straight for "the eye of" the TV (the power) light or it just hits the box. If that happens, you have to hit the TV button to turn the TV off. I know that the batteries are good because I can use the remote from across the room. But sometimes those sensors are not as strong as they should be.

Before I got a DVR box I left the box on all the time. The cable guy set up the remote to control both the TV and cable box DVR at once with the Power button. If you ever get a new TV, you can do an Internet Search for your brand of remote's instructions on how to find the set-up code for your TV. These are usually PDF files.

Jack

dmcdayton

01-20-08, 04:52 PM

TWC, Navigator and HDMI.

The real Axis of Evil.

jetlife2

01-20-08, 08:31 PM

Satch Man

01-21-08, 12:49 AM

Hi

I have run into a bug where I cannot use the DVR (SA 8300HD) because the software believes there is no remaining space. However looking at the Show List there are no shows present and it shows 0% full. (BTW I had a whole load of shows stored that are gone now...grrr.) DVR will not work on the buffering channel either (probably for the same reason as it thinks the HD is full).

Hard reboots (yank the power) and soft reboots (from front panel) do not fix this. I would like to force a reformat of the internal drive as I think that would probably fix the issue.

Having spent a few hours googling and searching this forum, I found a force-reformat sequence for SARA (which does not work) but so far I have not found one for Navigator.

Does anyone have this sequence? Thanks for your help.

Is this an 8300HDC box or an 8300 HD (no C) box? The research indicates that the C boxes although newer are the most problematic because of erratic behavior with the cable cards/OCAP/cable system integration.

Regardless, the best bet would be a box exchange. Try for a non-C box if you can get one in your division. If you can't, try for a NEW (non-refurbished C-box.) Some people seem to be having better luck with the newer C boxes. However, the older non-C units are the most reliable.

Jack

jetlife2

01-21-08, 09:35 AM

Is this an 8300HDC box or an 8300 HD (no C) box?

It's an 8300HDC. It's frustrating to have to exchange it when it appears to be a software issue that could be cleared with a reformat. Thanks :(

Jack Howarth

01-21-08, 10:54 AM

jetlife2,
Have they pushed the new updates down to your SA8300HDC yet? On my box, I was seeing absurdly low percentages for recordings until they did that. Since the updates, I
am getting reasonable percentages. I would check if your box had the very latest
software release before exchanging it. The new update might have a fix for your situation.

holl_ands

01-21-08, 11:42 AM

TWC, Navigator and HDMI.

The real Axis of Evil.
I think it's a passive-aggressive counter-authority conspiracy:

Feds mandated (presumably working) HDMI for ALL new STB/DVR's....
initially lots of problems....which continue years later.
And TWC still has problems getting HDMI (Stereo) I/F to HDTV working
simultaneously with Optical/Coax Digital Audio (DD5.1) to AV Receiver.

Feds mandated (presumably working) Firewire for ALL new STB/DVR's....
SA3250HD is thus far the ONLY box that ever worked reliably.

Feds mandated separable security (e.g. CableCARD)....initially lots of
problems with one-way devices and now lots of headaches with two-way.

jdombeck

01-21-08, 05:52 PM

Question,

For those of you with Navigator and C-boxes, do you leave your box on or do you power them off so that they go off with the TV? With Passport, I have my POWER button set to turn the TV/DVR on/off simultaneously (as preinstalled.)

SA recommends having the box turn on/off with the TV. I was wondering for those of you with missed recordings and C-boxes, whether Navigator or otherwise, what has been your best workaround for dealing with missed recordings?

Jack

I saw a tip on this forum, I think, quite a while back which has greatly diminished my recording errors with Navigator: I have the HDC plugged into a light timer into the wall outlet. I have it set to cycle on and off every night at about 4:00 AM. This doesn't solve all the problems and sometimes I still get the channel not available and other errors, but they are less frequent than they were before.

nmspace

01-21-08, 07:16 PM

Call in, you never know, although their answer is likely to be that the exta drive is not supported. Maybe if you get somebody sufficiently high, he/she may be able to help or at least register that there is an issue. I am getting nervous that one day, soon, I'll get upgraded to 2.4.8_2 and the external drive will not work any more and 2/3 of my shows will be gone. Well, thanks to you I can at least try to record something 24/7. If that SDV dongle would be operational and stable, TivoHD would be looking better every second.

I called support earlier today - I ended up talking to a local tech that had a pretty good grasp on the various updates, what they are doing etc. He did acknowledge that they aren't yet formally supporting external drives. However he was interested in the problem I'm seeing. I described the problem and the workaround I'm using. He asked if it made a difference when I used Component connection vs. HDMI (doesn't). He said that he would forward this information on to the IT folks (Development I presume) - so that they would know what I'm doing to circumvent the problem.

He indicated that next Tuesday they are scheduled to push out a point upgrade that contains fixes to the 2.4.8_2 version - however I didn't get the impression it would contain a fix to the external drive problem. It sounds like it is intended to fix a lot of the problems dealing with the more common errors that 'lots' of folks are seeing.

The interesting thing that I sort of picked up was that this version isn't the one that has all that interesting 'stuff' that Nebraska has - so I'm wondering if htat version is "also" a 2.4.8_2 version that's different - or whether that is actually a different version number (which I'd suspect is more likely).

BTW: You shouldn't actually loose your shows on the exteral - it just makes it hard to watch them! - or do anything else. I found when I was playing with this, that you can run with the external not plugged in, and hot plug it in. Navigator recognizes that a drive has been added - puts up a msg - and you can then see/watch the shows on that drive. I never tried hot unpluging - always unplugged the HDC prior to removing the external.

I've got to read more about SDV.. not quite sure what all that is yet. Our area may get additional High Def channels by end of this month - not sure if that's via the SDV or not.

nmspace

01-21-08, 07:18 PM

I am going to lean towards B here. I have tried two seperate drives, as well as two seperate enclosures and I still get the "go to sleep, never wake up" problem. I'm thinking opening up the HDC and dropping a drive in it might be my next option.

B is my guess as well... I haven't even thought about opening up the HDC - although I assume one can replace the drive with a 'blank' non partitioned drive and it should set itself all up. I've not looked into this at all, since I've assumed I'd be breaking some agreement not to tamper with the unit or some such....

I would be interested if you end up doing this and it works.

DVRWOODY

01-21-08, 11:15 PM

Satch Man

01-22-08, 06:19 AM

Well I guess after all the BS the folks in Nebraska went thru they deserve the bells and whistles version of Navigator first. Hope we all get them when us sara folk get Navigator. Sear 1.89.17.1 Greensboro NC

What version of Navigator is Nebraska currently running? They must have a later update. I agree that given the hell that they have gone through, they deserve it. I am sure that various divisions will get it soon enough. First big priority has to be fixing those missed recordings due to the "Channel Not Available" bugs.

Jack

break7bg

01-22-08, 08:23 AM

My power button turns both TV/DVR on and off. However, you have to shoot straight for "the eye of" the TV (the power) light or it just hits the box. If that happens, you have to hit the TV button to turn the TV off. I know that the batteries are good because I can use the remote from across the room. But sometimes those sensors are not as strong as they should be.

Before I got a DVR box I left the box on all the time. The cable guy set up the remote to control both the TV and cable box DVR at once with the Power button. If you ever get a new TV, you can do an Internet Search for your brand of remote's instructions on how to find the set-up code for your TV. These are usually PDF files.

Jack

Jack,
I have my remote programmed to power both off at the same time. I turn them both off at night. Since our discussion two weeks ago, i have not lost a recorded program, and the audio has been consistenly good. As you know, I kept the SA8300HDC with Navigator. I'm happy so far.
Break

Satch Man

01-22-08, 02:51 PM

Jack,
I have my remote programmed to power both off at the same time. I turn them both off at night. Since our discussion two weeks ago, i have not lost a recorded program, and the audio has been consistently good. As you know, I kept the SA8300HDC with Navigator. I'm happy so far.
Break

Thanks Break,

This gives me some cautious optimism about the planned March rollout for the non-C DVR's.

Jack

PS. Note the words, "Cautious Optimism!"

carnenyc

01-22-08, 08:45 PM

Sorry if the answer to this has been posted elsewhere, but I couldn't find it..
I have Time Warner in NYC...
Just picked up a Panasonic 42PZ700u and swapped my cable box for the SA 8300HDC.. I hooked it up using the HDMI connection, figured out the audio no prob. My problem is when I'm watching full screen 16:9 (using the justify setting on the TV for SD) it's fine, but when I turn the TV off then on it reverts back to 4:3.. The only way to get it back to 16:9 is to switch to an HD channel, then back to the SD channel. This happens whether I have the cable box set to 16:9 or 4:3. I know it's a cable box issue, since when I have a DVD on, and I turn the TV off and on it's still 16:9. Pretty annoying, especially since it happened last night when I was taping 2 SD shows at the same time, and couldn't switch to an HD channel to get it back to 16:9
Anyone figure out a workaround to this prob??

CANNON-FODDER

01-22-08, 09:44 PM

Is your DVD player sending 480p wide-screen? Perhaps the TV reverts to 4:3 with 480i. I expect you will find the solution in the TV - it will either remember/default the setting or not. My 4:3 CRT (no HDMI) jumps out of WIDE mode whenever it sees a resolution change as well, but will keep the WIDE setting through channel changes (same resolution from the same device). Annoyingly, we have a 480i channel in the middle of our HD channels.

v/r,
C-F

Satch Man

01-22-08, 11:19 PM

Guys,

For anyone talking to higher ups about Navigator, (and the progress that many of you have made in getting in touch with the people in control can not be praised enough), could you ask if they could work on an update that would speed up the boot time of the boxes? That's one element that is making many people crazy, and it will be frustrating if users have to wait 5-10 minutes for their boxes or DVR's to boot, once this software goes mainstream.

Jack

carnenyc

01-23-08, 06:30 AM

Yes it does.. I notice when I'm watching HD, the indicator light on the box says '1080' (or 720)... but when I turn the TV off it switches to 480...and stays there when I turn the TV back on... until I switch the channels back and forth between SD and HD

Is your DVD player sending 480p wide-screen? Perhaps the TV reverts to 4:3 with 480i. I expect you will find the solution in the TV - it will either remember/default the setting or not. My 4:3 CRT (no HDMI) jumps out of WIDE mode whenever it sees a resolution change as well, but will keep the WIDE setting through channel changes (same resolution from the same device). Annoyingly, we have a 480i channel in the middle of our HD channels.

v/r,
C-F

Blue_Rage

01-23-08, 05:19 PM

CANNON-FODDER

01-24-08, 09:44 AM

Yes it does.. I notice when I'm watching HD, the indicator light on the box says '1080' (or 720)... but when I turn the TV off it switches to 480...and stays there when I turn the TV back on... until I switch the channels back and forth between SD and HDSorry, I think I was confused.

I thought that you were talking about SD channels, you were getting the output you wanted (480i to use the TV's aspect controls) from the STB, and your TV would reset it's aspect ratio to 4:3 vice your preferred stretch mode when everything was turned on with an SD channel. But, do you mean that the STB outputs 480i from a 720p/1080i channel when turned on (requiring the HD-SD-HD dance), or that you want only 720p/1080i output and the STB is allowing 480i from SD channels when turned on (requiring a reversed SD-HD-SD dance)?

If it is really in the box, I do not have NAVIGATOR, so I cannot test it out.

v/r,
C-F

peter144

01-24-08, 10:05 AM

TWC New York City. SA8300HDC. Navigator.

Turned on the TV last night. Signal thru the cable box (but not the TIVO) was in color but had snow and was "pulsing" strong to weak. Same applied to playing recorded programs.

Rebooted and the problem went away.

I suspect that the hard disk is failing (day before, it froze on a playback; switching to playing another recorded program and then back unfroze it).

I wonder of TWC was smart enough to get some sort of warranty out of Cisco (SA). Otherwise, the cost of fixing these POS boxes is just getting passed onto the user (ie- me).

Anyhow, has anyone else had this pulsing problem?

carnenyc

01-24-08, 09:13 PM

Sorry, I think I was confused.

I thought that you were talking about SD channels, you were getting the output you wanted (480i to use the TV's aspect controls) from the STB, and your TV would reset it's aspect ratio to 4:3 vice your preferred stretch mode when everything was turned on with an SD channel. But, do you mean that the STB outputs 480i from a 720p/1080i channel when turned on (requiring the HD-SD-HD dance), or that you want only 720p/1080i output and the STB is allowing 480i from SD channels when turned on (requiring a reversed SD-HD-SD dance)?

If it is really in the box, I do not have NAVIGATOR, so I cannot test it out.

v/r,
C-F

As it turns out, when I leave it on an HD channel, it'll come back in fullscreen when I turn the TV back.. The box will still indicate 480i, but it's defintely in HD...But if I leave it on an SD channel, then turn it on, it'll come back in 4:3, and it'll only come back to 16:9 when I flip to an HD channel, then back..

dwcron

01-25-08, 05:57 PM

As it turns out, when I leave it on an HD channel, it'll come back in fullscreen when I turn the TV back.. The box will still indicate 480i, but it's defintely in HD...But if I leave it on an SD channel, then turn it on, it'll come back in 4:3, and it'll only come back to 16:9 when I flip to an HD channel, then back..

I had the same issue with an C box on my TH-50PZ750U, but when turning it back on (if it had been on an HD channel), it wouldn't go back to full screen. Had to change to an SD channel, then back to HD. My initial solution was to use component input, which tool care of that problem. Left it setup like that for about a day before I got tired of some of the other issues (sluggish response, some channels blacking out, etc) and brought my Passport box back downstairs. Time Warner seemed less than interested in looking in to it (probably a hardware issue anyway), and I don't feel like doing continuous box swaps at this point. I'm content to leave the C box up in my bedroom hooked to my old CRT HD TV via component since I don't use that one much.

Satch Man

01-26-08, 05:48 AM

My conversation with a head cable tech:

I had mentioned our March rollout for Navigator on the non-OCAP DVR's and that here in Milwaukee they are going model number by model number. I asked about the problems with the OCAP boxes. (Commonly known even by the techs as OCRAP!) here is his response. He is in North Carolina:

*************************************************

It looks like your division is a whole lot smarter than ours. I'm still a little naive about the differences between TWC divisions, but am becoming more and more aware of them. We are upgrading our new customers to yet another OCAP upgrade (while I still have the Non-OCAP DVR and reg converter myself), but they seem to have worked out many of the bugs with this new model. It still has the awful countdown, but it does not seem to be as sensitive as the original OCAPs. With the OCAP boxes there is a small window for the right upstream, downstream, and SNR levels. Any one of those levels go a couple db too high or low, there is a problem. I have also noticed that the OCAPs overheat much easier than the Passport boxes. Once they start getting too hot the tiling and freezing start, the record functions won't work, and guide data starts becoming hard to retrieve. This is where the Passport boxes are so much better and practical. I really don't quite understand why they would release a more sensitive box out to the public, seems to be a question thrown around at meetings that no one can specifically answer. I have also been noticing that whenever there is a software upgrade to the OCAPs to the customers homes we have an increase in troublecall roll-outs. Hmmmmmm. For the boxes that have problems with taking it will experience recording issues and guide data issues. Most of the boxes that don't take are usually fixed with a boot. SOOOO maybe soon, our division will get back on track with the non-OCRAPs. But our division is a bit stubborn, once they have sunk enough money into a project, whatever it may be, they seem to want to ride it out till it is working correctly.

I have not looked much into whether it is more so the cards or Mystro. But I do know that the one way cards for the TV slots are a huge headache and not worth the hassle for even the $2 they are charging for them a month. Your HDTV has got to have the right software for the card to be compatible for each other. And finding the right match is kinda like winning a scratch-off. Seriously. Most customers will have to contact their TV manufacturer and get things straight. Some of our customers are determined to get their TV right even if it means sending it back out to get the software upgraded to match up completely with the card. Some are just content with some missing channels. Can't expect too much for the price.

But 2009 should be an interesting year. I am expecting another postponement of the "everything digital" launch. Bestbuy, Circuit City and such are, if not already, going to be selling digital converter boxes for whoever and then we will install the card for it. That is going to be AWESOME for us techs. I'm stock piling on Excedrin already waiting for it. But I finally found out why everything is going digital. You probably already know. But it has to do with 9/11 and the frequencies used by the fire dept. They share the same frequencies as does the analog stations which standard cable uses. I am still looking to gather more info on this subject and if you know more about it I would love to hear. All I know is that they were interfering with each other and the firefighters were not getting info in time but the police were. I never knew that and found it very interesting.

****************************************************

This helps us learn and shed light on these issues in a more global context. It sounds like he is also interested in studying the effects of the new SA (Cisco) boxes.

Jack

bitfactory

01-26-08, 08:38 AM

But 2009 should be an interesting year. I am expecting another postponement of the "everything digital" launch.

There will not be another postponement. No way.

But I finally found out why everything is going digital. You probably already know. But it has to do with 9/11 and the frequencies used by the fire dept. They share the same frequencies as does the analog stations which standard cable uses.

This is not the reason why everything is 'going digital' - this has been in the works for many years prior to 2001.

I wouldn't take anything your tech says very seriously.

I am, however, looking forward to seeing new 'Navigator' hardware or software updates. I'm literally 2 weeks away from switching to DirectTV. I can't stand it.

Riverside_Guy

01-26-08, 09:26 AM

This is not the reason why everything is 'going digital' - this has been in the works for many years prior to 2001.

Exactly correct. It was, is and always will be about one thing... MONEY. The "spectrum" being reclaimed by the government by killing analog broadcast will be re-sold making millions of not billions of new found dollars for Washington.

Which may not be near as sleazy as it sounds. Think of all those bucks they do NOT have to extract from our pockets!

davehancock

01-26-08, 12:05 PM

My conversation with a head cable tech:Satch Man, thanks for the post - interesting, but he is a bit off base on a couple of items (I'm sure he was stating it as he understood it, but I am convinced that TW is in the business of growing mushrooms (keeping people in the dark).

But I do know that the one way cards for the TV slots are a huge headache and not worth the hassle for even the $2 they are charging for them a month.It is not the cable cards that are one-way, it's the TV's that they are plugged into.

Your HDTV has got to have the right software for the card to be compatible for each other. And finding the right match is kinda like winning a scratch-off. Seriously. Most customers will have to contact their TV manufacturer and get things straight. Some of our customers are determined to get their TV right even if it means sending it back out to get the software upgraded to match up completely with the card. Some are just content with some missing channels. Can't expect too much for the price.Real good observation, and probably one of the reasons that cable has avoided promoting CableCARDs and TV manufacturers have been dropping them.

But 2009 should be an interesting year. I am expecting another postponement of the "everything digital" launch. Bestbuy, Circuit City and such are, if not already, going to be selling digital converter boxes for whoever and then we will install the card for it. This is the BIG thing that he doesn't understand! The boxes that he refers to are OTA only, CableCARDs have nothing to do with them! He could be confusing those with the launch of "tru2way" devices in the market, which will at first require CCs.

But thanks for sharing. It gives some good insight.

holl_ands

01-26-08, 06:31 PM

rdgcss

01-26-08, 07:38 PM

Exactly correct. It was, is and always will be about one thing... MONEY. The "spectrum" being reclaimed by the government by killing analog broadcast will be re-sold making millions of not billions of new found dollars for Washington.

Which may not be near as sleazy as it sounds. Think of all those bucks they do NOT have to extract from our pockets!

The 1st spectrum auction is going on right now. The a minimum 30 BILLION bid to force the spectrum to be "open to all". Google is expected to make this minimum bid to force the final winner to open things up so that every one will have access.

PedjaR

01-27-08, 12:45 AM

Cable Tech makes it sound like its just an overheating problem---so start
rigging up some external cooling fans!!!!!
http://www.geeks.com/products_sc.asp?cat=373
I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that it's better to place a laptop cooler
UPSIDE DOWN on TOP of the DVR to suck out hot air, rather than underneath....
Hope the plastic doesn't melt.... Where did I misplace that thermocouple????

================================
He was probably referring to tru2way (OCAP) STBs, DVRs and iDCR HDTVs being
released to retail stores (which won't happen until they kill the OCAP S/W bugs.)

Actually, I did use one of those kind of things upside down on top of my ReplayTV (which was fanless), as it was starting to overheat and stutter/freeeze when overworked once I put it inside a partially enclosed piece of furniture. The cooling thing worked OK (much fewer problems, but they were not completely gone) for a short time, then the little fans (had 3 of them) started to get noisy, stuck, and so on, eventually had to throw it away. Don't know if that particular one was a bad brand, or it was not designed to work upside down. When I tried to get a new one, it turned out that the new ones were all USB-powered, so I decided to get an internal fan for the DVR. That one turned out to be excellent, very quiet, and made a lot of difference - problems were completely gone, and ReplayTV is still going strong several years later. Since I got HDTV, my daughter "inherited" the ReplayTV and I use 8300HDC; sometimes I stop by her room and watch jealously at the stuff it does that TW's DVR will likely never do. But then I look at the HD picture on my much larger TV and get over it.

roybishop

01-27-08, 11:30 AM

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/djf500/200801241323DOWJONESDJONLINE001086_FORTUNE5.htm

BenJF3

01-27-08, 01:08 PM

I really wish Time Warner would add channel mapping to the boxes. It is ridiculous to offer both the standard def and high def versions of the same channel to HD customers. Once again my wife recorded a program I wanted to see (The Garth Brooks concert) off the crappy SD channel. This show was broadcast in HD 5.1, but I get to watch it cropped with standard audio. So glad I invested in all this equipment! A customizable guide is needed BADLY!

gparris

01-27-08, 01:51 PM

Good news for all you Navigator Supporters.
A very close friend, who has been engaging an engineer in the SE Wisconsin market has reported that roll-out to Navigator to DVRs has only been to TWC Staff so far.
There are issues as they are aware of, but will not provide a list of what those issues are (big surprise).
And of course....Bev Greenberg appreciated him bringing these issues to her attention, as they are always concerned about customer service issues.:rolleyes:

Also, he's asked TWC or a box to test with, and they said "NO" basically.:eek:

Also, if you have issues, contact Ms. Greenberg directly, she wants to hear from you:
Make certain that you copy the mayor's office on the messge, as they have a public liaison office that works with TWC.
Also, don't hestiate to copy the states attorney's office as well because in the end when TWC botches the roll-out, the state's attorney's office will be responsible for negotiating the breach like they did elsewhere.

Again, these are his suggestions after many communications.
While most of us are content in posting comments here, he went to the source.
- Interesting?
Maybe the rest of us should take his lead.;)

HuskerHarley

01-27-08, 03:11 PM

Well I guess after all the BS the folks in Nebraska went thru they deserve the bells and whistles version of Navigator first. Hope we all get them when us sara folk get Navigator. Sear 1.89.17.1 Greensboro NC

We got back some of the BELLS but not the WHISTLES that passport had.

Two features I really miss:

Search: I used to highlight a currently showing program and it would go directly to a list of all the times, dates and channels for that program...Now you bring up the search and have to type it all out..VERY unintuitive and frustrating.

Series Recording: Once again I used to chose a show that would be on later and record it to record as a series 'NEW' only at the later time....

But sometimes series show back to back episodes...Your screwed unless you set to record ALL SHOWINGS and NEW & REPEAT EPISODES which ends up recording every time it's on and end up filling the DVR with multiple duplicates of the same program.

Example of back to back episodes:
Series episode '1' air time 7:00 pm episode '2' air time 8:00 pm guide shows NEW, also the same episodes replays at 1:00 & 2:00 am guide shows new as well, so I schedule the 1:00 am and all is well for that series episode now you highlight the 2:00 am episode and you do not have the choice of recording as a series.

Why is this wrong??? Because next week you will only end up with 1 episode and miss the 2nd.

Very simple to fix this but they don't and I have personally brought theses as well as other problems to the attention of Bruce Ubbin of TWC Lincoln (Head of Software development here in Lincoln, I think that's his title) and after almost a year a few of the bells we used to take for granted have started to reappear but not the whistles.

They (TWC-NEBRASKA) still have a LONG way to go to catch up with passport.

Last week my DVR rebooted apx. 15 times in a row and recorded one of my programs each time it came back to life but only for about 45 seconds between each reboot....

I finally shut it down and spent/wasted another part of my LIFE on the phone with a rep. explaining the problem only to be told that they would send a tech out on a day between the hours of 1-4...SOS!

I had to go out of town and couldn't make the 1-4 appointment.

My wife informed me that on one of our other (3250HD) boxes, it to has also rebooted several times.

I'm worn out and after the tech comes out, it will be the last time if any more problems arise...(DTV or DISH)

I get offers/comps of free service (HBO or digital tier for a few months) to shut me up when I call and every time I tell them all I want is what I pay for not a piece of candy.

Please if you (TWC) are reading this, fix it so it works as advertised or at least get all the features of passport back and continue adding from that point.

HH

robotron2084

01-27-08, 06:24 PM

Example of back to back episodes:
Series episode '1' air time 7:00 pm episode '2' air time 8:00 pm guide shows NEW, also the same episodes replays at 1:00 & 2:00 am guide shows new as well, so I schedule the 1:00 am and all is well for that series episode now you highlight the 2:00 am episode and you do not have the choice of recording as a series.

Why is this wrong??? Because next week you will only end up with 1 episode and miss the 2nd.

I must have misunderstood something because I don't understand this example. You don't need to highlight the 2:00am show and record as series, it should already be set to record after you created a series request from the 1:00am show. Navigator does not (yet) support time slot recording (or are you saying you have a version that supports that now?). When you record a series it is only limited to the channel, not the time.

Here's my example. I set a series record for Lost on Thursday using the 8:00pm episode and it automatically became set to record the back-to-back episode at 9:00pm. It then also detected a new episode on Wednesday (the day before) and set it to record. I wasn't even aware there was a show on Wednesday night still I saw it in the scheduled recordings.

Sounds like it's working just fine. I've not experienced any rebooting issues like I've heard some describe here. By all accounts, it's a matter of bad hardware. Just swap the box (though unfortunately it seems sometimes one swap isn't enough to find a non-faulty box) and if the TWC office is nearby, just do it yourself rather than schedule an appointment. People have fixed this problem by replacing the box despite the fact that the software is the same, so it seems to be a hardware issue and not Navigator. Navigator does have it's issues but not everything that goes wrong with an 8300HDC box is because of Navigator.

And just for point of reference, my Navigator version is 2.4.5_4.

HuskerHarley

01-27-08, 06:56 PM

I must have misunderstood something because I don't understand this example. You don't need to highlight the 2:00am show and record as series, it should already be set to record after you created a series request from the 1:00am show. Navigator does not (yet) support time slot recording (or are you saying you have a version that supports that now?). When you record a series it is only limited to the channel, not the time.

Here's my example. I set a series record for Lost on Thursday using the 8:00pm episode and it automatically became set to record the back-to-back episode at 9:00pm. It then also detected a new episode on Wednesday (the day before) and set it to record. I wasn't even aware there was a show on Wednesday night still I saw it in the scheduled recordings.

Sounds like it's working just fine. I've not experienced any rebooting issues like I've heard some describe here. By all accounts, it's a matter of bad hardware. Just swap the box (though unfortunately it seems sometimes one swap isn't enough to find a non-faulty box) and if the TWC office is nearby, just do it yourself rather than schedule an appointment. People have fixed this problem by replacing the box despite the fact that the software is the same, so it seems to be a hardware issue and not Navigator. Navigator does have it's issues but not everything that goes wrong with an 8300HDC box is because of Navigator.

And just for point of reference, my Navigator version is 2.4.5_4.

On my DVR I do this to record series episode:

Select: RECORD SERIES WITH OPTIONS
Select: RECORD-NEW or NEW & REPEAT EPISODES
Select: ALL SHOWINGS or ____am/pm TIME ONLY

When you select time only that is what you get, you do not get the option of going to the next time slot and creating another series recording.

Some times an episode of whatever will be back to back in prime time then repeated hours later with the same tag 'NEW', if you chose NEW episodes and ALL SHOWINGS you end up with multiple (if it keeps repeating all week long) of the dual episodes.

History Channel, Discovery and other similar channels like these once in awhile do this and keep running the same two shows B2B all week and if you select ALL SHOWINGS your gonna get them.

Do you follow what I'm saying?

How do I tell my version?

HH

HuskerHarley

01-27-08, 07:03 PM

Sorry I'm in a hurry...I'm on my 3rd HD-DVR from TWC.

HH

BrienCharles

01-28-08, 10:03 AM

robotron2084

01-28-08, 10:20 AM

Do you follow what I'm saying?

How do I tell my version?

Yes, I do now. You apparently have the newer version of Navigator that allows for time slot recording. Here in Raleigh/Durham, NC, we don't have that option yet. I guess I haven't yet run across the issue that multiple versions of the same episode are all claiming to be "new", so I'm lucky so far. Hopefully that's something that gets straightened out. Plus, I "thought" the system was supposed to know when you'd already set to record a new show and not schedule additional ones. Like I said, I've not seen that behavior yet. I've set up to record The Universe and don't appear to have the duplicates being recorded. Maybe that's a defect introduced by the newer version when time slot recording was added.

As for the version number, it seems to differ for some people, but for me, I can hold down the SELECT button until the message/mail icon flashes on the DVR. Then press the down arrow (directly below the SELECT button). This should result in 9 pages of diagnostics appearing on your screen. There will be version information on the first page.

robotron2084

01-28-08, 10:26 AM

Has anyone seen this before? I have my Sony 46W3000 connected to my cable box via HDMI.

I have only had this happen to me once or twice right after I got my box. I've not had this happen since, but have heard of others seeing this as well.

I don't recall if simply changing the channels fixed this as a simple work-around or not, but I *think* that's what I did. You probably ought to go ahead and unplug the box, let it sit a couple of minutes and then plug it back in. Of course it'll unfortunately take about 10 minutes for the thing to boot back up again, but that typically helps clear up some of the problems people encounter. It might also result in newer software being downloaded that could clear up the problem.

wx27

01-28-08, 11:06 AM

TWC NYC 8300HDC Navigator 2.4.8_2

Just confirming the same issue with eSata as the other guys from a few weeks ago. New box 10 days ago, eSata hooked up on Saturday. I've had to reboot when turning on the system after it has been off for a while. Left the box on yesterday during the day and it had several shows to record, but after I turned the TV back on later, box was stuck displaying live the last channel I had it on. After reboot I saw that it still had taped a scheduled recording from 8-9pm. Did the reboot around 11:45pm, so 2.75hr window of inactivity to end up with a locked up box.

Using MX-1 + wd5000aaks drive.

I may resort to the 24/7 recording workaround until they fix this software.
Too bad this version doesn't have the ability to reprioritize series recordings. I already have 11 series listed and don't feel like reentering them to have the TV guide hack as the first entry/lowest prio.

corduroyg

01-28-08, 12:42 PM

I am using Time Warner Cable with a Scientific Atlanta 8300HDC box and having a problem with the Guide. I am viewing the Guide (with the screen in the top right corner) and when I exit the Guide, the channel menu disappears; however, the screen stays in the top right corner of the screen.

Has anyone seen this before? I have my Sony 46W3000 connected to my cable box via HDMI.

When I got my hdc box about 3 weeks ago I initially hooked it up via hdmi and was having issues including the one with the picture staying in the top right corner after you exit guide. I switched from hdmi to component and everything is running smoothly, I would suggest doing that if you can, im sure that would take care of it. THis box has alot of glitches with hdmi

DVRWOODY

01-28-08, 06:08 PM

robotron2084

01-28-08, 06:41 PM

THIS MAY BE A STUPID QUESTION.i AM ON SARA NOT NAVIGATOR SO i AM JUST ASKING. After you chose new episodes only do you have to select all episodes or maybe Navigator will let you select only the new ones.On sara we can chose only new episodes or all episodes.We also have 2 time slot recording options plus manual recording.I only select all episodes on sara when I really want all episodes.Otherwise I select new only or a time slot.Just wondered if Navigator let you select new only without hiting the all episode button.Just asking and offering suggestion at same time. SARA 1.89.17.1 Greensboro NC

Yes, Navigator allows you to select New only. It seems that HH's problem is that some show episodes are showing as New multiple times in a week. Sounds like a Guide issue, but I've not seen it myself. I'd be curious if there's an example that HH is currently observing as I'd like to see if a) it's the same in my Guide and b) if setting a series record option for the show results in multiple recordings since my version isn't as current as his.

PedjaR

01-28-08, 11:43 PM

On my DVR I do this to record series episode:

Select: RECORD SERIES WITH OPTIONS
Select: RECORD-NEW or NEW & REPEAT EPISODES
Select: ALL SHOWINGS or ____am/pm TIME ONLY

When you select time only that is what you get, you do not get the option of going to the next time slot and creating another series recording.

Some times an episode of whatever will be back to back in prime time then repeated hours later with the same tag 'NEW', if you chose NEW episodes and ALL SHOWINGS you end up with multiple (if it keeps repeating all week long) of the dual episodes.

History Channel, Discovery and other similar channels like these once in awhile do this and keep running the same two shows B2B all week and if you select ALL SHOWINGS your gonna get them.

Do you follow what I'm saying?

How do I tell my version?

HH

When the same episode is airing more than once, Navigator knows to record only one of those - at least my version (2.4.5_4). You have a different version, though; mine does not offer "ALL SHOWINGS or ____am/pm TIME ONLY". Yours is supposed to be better, I guess, since it has extra features, but maybe they screwed up this nice feature when they added the time slot recording.
Can you double check if it really will record multiple instances *of what it should know is the same show*? Maybe it is not aware those are airings of the same episode, as there is no info in the guide that would indicate that it is the same episode. A show that always works for me is Stargate Atlantis on SciFi - it shows the same New episode twice on Fridays (10PM and midnight), and my box has never picked up both airings. Can you check if it works using this show with New Episodes Only/All Showings (as you probably know, you can immediately check in Scheduled Recordings what will get recorded).
I just did a little test: currently, Atlantis series set as "New only", 10PM episode only is scheduled. Added an unrelated single recording at the same time, nothing happened (as two tuners were available). Tried to add second single recording at the same time, the box asked me to manually resolve conflict; I chose not to add the second single recording. Then I changed my Numbers series (airing at the same time) from "New" to "New and Repeat" - now it did not ask anything, it picked up the 10PM Numbers episode, dropped 10PM Atlantis and added midnight Atlantis - exactly as you would hope it would. That's quite nifty, but it would be nice it did the same when I tried to add the second single recording; I guess it does not do its series rescheduling thing on every scheduling event, only when you add/delete/change options on a series.

HuskerHarley

01-29-08, 12:54 AM

Yes, I do now. You apparently have the newer version of Navigator that allows for time slot recording. Here in Raleigh/Durham, NC, we don't have that option yet. I guess I haven't yet run across the issue that multiple versions of the same episode are all claiming to be "new", so I'm lucky so far. Hopefully that's something that gets straightened out. Plus, I "thought" the system was supposed to know when you'd already set to record a new show and not schedule additional ones. Like I said, I've not seen that behavior yet. I've set up to record The Universe and don't appear to have the duplicates being recorded. Maybe that's a defect introduced by the newer version when time slot recording was added.

As for the version number, it seems to differ for some people, but for me, I can hold down the SELECT button until the message/mail icon flashes on the DVR. Then press the down arrow (directly below the SELECT button). This should result in 9 pages of diagnostics appearing on your screen. There will be version information on the first page.

Sorry about not answering, I got called out and just returned.

Apparently,,,I'm not explaining [correctly], the recording problem so you and others understand...I'll take another crack at it tomorrow and hopefully we all get on the same page.

As for version I tried what you said and came up with 28 pages of information. I found this...not sure if it's right???

VERSIONS P:892 AT:14 ST:364

TWC is scheduled to be here in the morning...I think my rebooting has to be signal related (Not enough or uneven distribution throughout my house)

Later

HH

HuskerHarley

01-29-08, 01:08 AM

I went back and found this

Software Versions
PTV: v6.14.80.3sp.

HH

strikefast

01-29-08, 12:17 PM

As for version I tried what you said and came up with 28 pages of information. I found this...not sure if it's right???

VERSIONS P:892 AT:14 ST:364

I went back and found this

Software Versions
PTV: v6.14.80.3sp.

HH

Wow, HH! I certainly didn't see that coming: 28 pages and a pretty strange version number format. Your box is a Scientific-Atlanta 8300HDC, right? I wonder if you have some special engineering build of the software with additional diagnostic pages...

Let us know what you learn from today's TWC visit...

HuskerHarley

01-29-08, 12:47 PM

Wow, HH! I certainly didn't see that coming: 28 pages and a pretty strange version number format. Your box is a Scientific-Atlanta 8300HDC, right? I wonder if you have some special engineering build of the software with additional diagnostic pages...

Let us know what you learn from today's TWC visit...

Scientific-Atlanta Explorer 8300HD

Once again I'm in a hurry (work)

TWC tech just left....Replaced all the fittings in house and checked signal at all taps...OK according to him_____?

He said my version is:

RES:2.3.56AD-ptv

I'll explain more later...

HH

xnappo

01-29-08, 12:53 PM

Scientific-Atlanta Explorer 8300HD

Once again I'm in a hurry (work)

TWC tech just left....Replaced all the fittings in house and checked signal at all taps...OK according to him_____?

He said my version is:

RES:2.3.56AD-ptv

I'll explain more later...

HH

If you get time to take some photos of your diag screens, it would be appreciated. Obviously not all 28 - just the 'interesting' looking ones.

xnappo

robotron2084

01-29-08, 12:55 PM

I went back and found this

Software Versions
PTV: v6.14.80.3sp.

HH

Wow, I've not seen anything resembling that and 28 pages?!? I guess Navigator has significantly expanded the diagnostics. I understand the problem you're describing, my only point is that a) I'm on a different version of Navigator and b) on my version, I (and PedjaR) don't see that problem. I guess we can't really "help" (or commiserate) until we get upgraded to the same version. I'm inclined to agree with PedjaR that with the added time slot recording feature, they've "broken" the "only once" aspect of recording a new episode.

Does anyone know of a place where TWC actually supports Navigator. A place to report problems other than calling their office and them telling you a tech can come out on an inconvenient day during a 4 hour window? I know... dare to dream.

I'd love to provide feedback and get details like when will Raleigh/Durham be upgraded, etc.

robotron2084

01-29-08, 12:58 PM

Scientific-Atlanta Explorer 8300HD

Oh wow. Isn't this one of the first reportings of Navigator on a non-OCAP box? I imagine that opens up a whole other can of worms and certainly explains the diagnotics. I'm on an 8300HDC.

parishd

01-29-08, 01:19 PM

I have 3 issues two I believe to be the Time Warner "box" the other I'm not so sure.

(1) I turn off the TV on 1080i Discovery HD. When I turn the TV back on the next day it is at 480i. I must change the channel then back to Discovery to get it to switch to 1080i.

(2) I open up the Guide and if I do not change channels when I press Guide again I have the small preview window of the program on the screen and the rest of the TV screen is black.

(3) After 3 months of use normal audio volume on my TV has went from 13 -15 up to 20 - 25. This is the one I think might not be Time Warner.

I re-booted once and it seemed to fix #2 until the next day then back again. I suspect I might need a new box for 1 and 2 and maybe I have a speaker amp problem. I hate to even change channels or open the guide because it seems anytime I switch resolutions I have issues. Everything worked fine for 2 months now incident after incident.

Your insight would be appreciated.

Dennis

wx27

01-29-08, 01:35 PM

(2) I open up the Guide and if I do not change channels when I press Guide again I have the small preview window of the program on the screen and the rest of the TV screen is black.

I have similar behavior on my SA8300HDC that's running Nav 2.4.8_2
I am connected to TV via HDMI.

Do you leave your cable box on when your TV is off? If no, what order do you turn on the TV and cable box?

xnappo

01-29-08, 02:00 PM

Oh wow. Isn't this one of the first reportings of Navigator on a non-OCAP box? I imagine that opens up a whole other can of worms and certainly explains the diagnotics. I'm on an 8300HDC.

Hmm... you know... SARA has about 28 pages of diags. HH - you sure you have Navigator?

xnappo

parishd

01-29-08, 02:25 PM

I have similar behavior on my SA8300HDC that's running Nav 2.4.8_2
I am connected to TV via HDMI.

Do you leave your cable box on when your TV is off? If no, what order do you turn on the TV and cable box?

Hmmm, good question I use a universal remote and I cannot remember what I programmed for sure. I am connected via HDMI. I will need to check the order tonight. I don't think I turn the box off.

wx27

01-29-08, 04:05 PM

Hmmm, good question I use a universal remote and I cannot remember what I programmed for sure. I am connected via HDMI. I will need to check the order tonight. I don't think I turn the box off.

I use the SYSTEM button on the remote that came with the SA8300HDC and it sequentially fires the on/off signal to each component, going from right to left, so cable box first, then TV, then audio (and the other ones in the middle I don't have/didn't configure).

If instead you use the POWER button on the upper right, it just sends an on/off signal to the component currently selected.

For your 480i issue, I am guessing that if you turn off the TV, but not the cable box, then perhaps the cable box sees the drop in HDMI connection and switches to 480i. For whatever reason, turning on the TV later does not prompt the box to flip back to 1080i. A flip of the channel forces the box to sense the resolution of the programming, detect that the HDMI port is active, and then output the correct resolution.

parishd

01-29-08, 08:44 PM

I use the SYSTEM button on the remote that came with the SA8300HDC and it sequentially fires the on/off signal to each component, going from right to left, so cable box first, then TV, then audio (and the other ones in the middle I don't have/didn't configure).

If instead you use the POWER button on the upper right, it just sends an on/off signal to the component currently selected.

For your 480i issue, I am guessing that if you turn off the TV, but not the cable box, then perhaps the cable box sees the drop in HDMI connection and switches to 480i. For whatever reason, turning on the TV later does not prompt the box to flip back to 1080i. A flip of the channel forces the box to sense the resolution of the programming, detect that the HDMI port is active, and then output the correct resolution.

Well, I got home and took a look. When I turn off the system using my remote it switches the cable box to 480i regardless of the channel I'm on. This happens if I use my universal remote or not. What you have indicated seems to be true my problem is to find out what is causing it to happen all of a sudden.

phousley

01-30-08, 11:26 AM

It has been reported here and on other threads that external drives quit working properly when users received Navigator release 2.4.8_2. Although the external drive still works, the DVR will not work after entering sleep mode or after being off overnight, and must be rebooted.

My questions:

1) Has anyone with Navigator release 2.4.8_2 been able to use an external drive without any workarounds (e.g., the 24/7 TV Guide recording)? That is, was anyone not affected by the 2.4.8_2 release?

2) Is there anyone with a Navigator release more recent than 2.4.8_2 that can testify that the problem has or has not been fixed?

Satch Man

01-30-08, 01:50 PM

Hi All,

I want to learn about Navigator as much as I can before the scheduled March change-over for the DVR's. Is there closed captioning on the Navigator boxes, and have any of you used it? How do you get to it? I ask because being hard of hearing, I use my TV remote (non-cable) for captioning when I need to do that. What options for captioning are offered on the Navigator boxes? Passport has captions, but I have never been able to activate them. (Must be something at their head-end that they don't have turned on.)

Jack

phousley

01-30-08, 02:13 PM

DVRWOODY

01-30-08, 02:21 PM

HH does the series priority system on Navigator work? SARA 1.89.17.1 Greensboro NC

DVRWOODY

01-30-08, 05:51 PM

Anyone with SARA been Navigatored yet? SARA 1.89.17.1

Rob052067

01-31-08, 02:33 PM

Columbus, OH 8300HDC Navigator 2.4.8_2

I haven't been watching this box very often (it's in the workout room), but it still records several shows daily. I'm not certain when the latest software upgrade (2.4.8_2) was installed, but it was fairly recent as it wasn't there a few weeks back the last time I checked.

It's been about a month since I've found any series recording failures, so that's good news.

I did find it doing something odd this week, so I'm thinking perhaps the latest software 'upgrade' was installed last weekend. My Series Recordings of 'The Daily Show' and 'The Colbert Report' are set for 'NEW' Episodes Only. Prior to now, it was recording only the 'new' 11pm/1130pm airings. This week, it started recording additional airings, even though the guide did not indicate the repeat airings as 'New'. I confirmed the series setting is still for New-only. What's most odd, is that it didn't record EVERY airing (ie: 11pm/1130pm, 1am/130am, 10am/1030am, 2pm/230pm, & 8pm/8:30pm), but rather most of them. It seemed to record 2 or 3 times a day but not all five. I've disabled the series recordings on these shows for now since I've been watching them on my Passport box anyway. (I still haven't motivated myself to get on the treadmill regularly.)

Nuance

01-31-08, 10:20 PM

Please forgive me if this has already been asked. I spend a good deal of time here in other forums, so I don't want to start reading through another 200+ page thread.

My brother is having an issue with the Time Warner version of the SA8300 HDC (the HDC sucks big time). He has the Navigator software on his box (its been confirmed). His HD channels work great, but when he watches 4:3 standard def content he'd like to use the "stretch modes" built into the TV instead of the ones through the cable box. Unfortunately the cable box seems to try to auto size the picture on its own which negates the use of the TV's stretch modes (which look better than the box's). Is there a way to shut that stupid auto detection off so the he can use the stretch modes built into his TV?

In short, how do you stop the Time Warner SA8300 HDC from auto adjusting the standard definition 4:3 content? My brother has a Pioneer 5080HD and wants to use the TV's stretch modes rather than the cable box's.

Thank you.

martinmarty

02-01-08, 01:23 AM

Hello,

Haven't been around for a few weeks because of my job. BUT, Navigator has been working pretty good (knock on wood). The DVR has not failed to record a single show.

Sorry it is OT, but did anybody see Dr. Phil today where the lady went into the Comcast office with a hammer and started cracking up their phones and computers? It was great. Reminded me of how I have wanted to drive a car right through the TWC office. :cool:

-Marty

Nuance

02-01-08, 09:09 AM

^ lol

derwood75

02-01-08, 01:19 PM

Nuance

02-01-08, 01:45 PM

This should work. Go to settings>display>aspect ratio>4:3. then back to display>output resolution>480i-1080i-720p. back to display>normal. that should do it. I will check when I get home to make sure.

So by changing it to 4:3 instead of 16:9 the box won't try to auto adjust but the HD will still auto detect as 16:9 and display correctly? Wow...that's a new one. Silly Time Warner!

I'll definitely have my bro try that out tonight. I appreciate your help (only a few people have actually tried to help me...er, my brother, with this issue. The others just ridiculed me and told me to read the first posts of the 8300 threads, which I had already done. Some people get way too high and mighty on these forums, like they own the place. But then they don't offer any help at all and instead belittle people. Jeez). I assure you, you are NOT one of those people, derwood. You've been most helpful.

Again, much thanks!

jimholcomb

02-01-08, 09:03 PM

Probably grasping at straws here, but is your box plugged into a UPS? Maybe you have small power failures/surges.

No, I've thought of that in the past and may move the UPS I have on my cable modem and router to the cable box and see if that helps. I'm still waiting to hear from TWC on the ticket I opened over the weekend.

An update:

I had opened a ticket back on 1/6/08 and because of having to travel because of a death in the family this got put off for a while.

I got back in touch with them on Monday and the installation manager said reboots are caused by signal loss. Hmmmm .... Well they came out Tuesday and said the cable drop from the back of my house to the living room box & tv was 20 years old, was RG-something and should be RG-something-else (my wife got that message) and needed to be replaced. They came out today and replaced that drop so we'll see if that solves my problems.

Jim

BenJF3

02-01-08, 09:23 PM

If it was RG-59, then replacing it with RG-6 could make a load of difference. I just hooked up an HD customer and had to basically run all new drops and amp his line. His On-Demand wasn't working at all and the HD would drop out.

jnv11

02-01-08, 09:46 PM

An update:

I had opened a ticket back on 1/6/08 and because of having to travel because of a death in the family this got put off for a while.

I got back in touch with them on Monday and the installation manager said reboots are caused by signal loss. Hmmmm .... Well they came out Tuesday and said the cable drop from the back of my house to the living room box & tv was 20 years old, was RG-something and should be RG-something-else (my wife got that message) and needed to be replaced. They came out today and replaced that drop so we'll see if that solves my problems.

Jim

What you had earlier was RG-59, and what is needed for digital cable is RG-6. If you have any free RG-59 cables in your house, replace them with RG-6 cable. If the cable in your walls is RG-59, have an electrician replace it unless you are one. In that case, replace it yourself.

RG-59 cables generally are bad today for digital cable because they lose more signal per meter compared to RG-6 cables, especially at high frequencies that digital cable typically uses when analog cable is also present. RG-59 provides acceptable performance for analog television only if you don't mind the noise that show up on high frequency channels. RG-6 will lose less signal per meter especially at high frequencies compared to RG-59, and therefore will decrease the noise your analog TV displays on high frequency channels and will allow your digital cable equipment to work correctly.

However, there are different quality levels of RG-6 cable. Some varieties of RG-6 cable lose more signal per meter than other varieties of RG-6 cable. For example, quad shielded RG-6 is better, but more expensive, than regular RG-6.

The method used to attach the connector onto the cable is another factor in cable performance. The best connections are probably achieved at factory-built cables and by pressurized fittings. Crimped connectors create a worse connection than pressure-fitted connectors, but are much better than screw-on connectors.

Blue_Rage

02-02-08, 01:28 AM

What you had earlier was RG-59, and what is needed for digital cable is RG-6. If you have any free RG-59 cables in your house, replace them with RG-6 cable. If the cable in your walls is RG-59, have an electrician replace it unless you are one. In that case, replace it yourself.

RG-59 cables generally are bad today for digital cable because they lose more signal per meter compared to RG-6 cables, especially at high frequencies that digital cable typically uses when analog cable is also present. RG-59 provides acceptable performance for analog television only if you don't mind the noise that show up on high frequency channels. RG-6 will lose less signal per meter especially at high frequencies compared to RG-59, and therefore will decrease the noise your analog TV displays on high frequency channels and will allow your digital cable equipment to work correctly.

However, there are different quality levels of RG-6 cable. Some varieties of RG-6 cable lose more signal per meter than other varieties of RG-6 cable. For example, quad shielded RG-6 is better, but more expensive, than regular RG-6.

The method used to attach the connector onto the cable is another factor in cable performance. The best connections are probably achieved at factory-built cables and by pressurized fittings. Crimped connectors create a worse connection than pressure-fitted connectors, but are much better than screw-on connectors.

Is there a way to tell which cable you have (RG-6 or RG-59) by looking at it? I'm now quite curious as to what's in my house.

VisionOn

02-02-08, 01:35 AM

Is there a way to tell which cable you have (RG-6 or RG-59) by looking at it? I'm now quite curious as to what's in my house.

If you're lucky it will be printed on the jacket.

jimholcomb

02-02-08, 09:20 AM

jnv11

02-02-08, 10:12 AM

Is there a way to tell which cable you have (RG-6 or RG-59) by looking at it? I'm now quite curious as to what's in my house.

RG-6 cable contains an 18 AWG center conductor, while RG-59 contains a 22 AWG center conductor. 18 AWG wire has an approximately 0.0403 inch diameter, while 22 AWG wire has an approximately 0.0254 inch diameter.

phousley

02-04-08, 01:35 PM

Erik Tracy

02-04-08, 02:38 PM

I just hope that at some point in the future - preferably before I die, that TWC gets a stable platform and either fixes or replaces the SA8300HDC/Navigator combo.

This past weekend starting Friday evening - I've had to reboot(hard power cycle) twice:
1) my avr would not sync to the TWC signal - flashing lights on my avr with itermittent sound and video (although if I popped in a DVD or even a VHS tape the AVR/HDTV combo worked fine)
2) no video at all when changing between HD and SD and back to HD channels.

Erik
TWC San Diego

stuart628

02-04-08, 02:59 PM

I got two 8240HDC From time warner and Have tried to keep up with this thread as much as possible, BUT I have not seen is there a stability difference in between the 8300HDC and the 8240HDC? or are they pretty much all the same (stable, but with problems)

DVRWOODY

02-04-08, 05:03 PM

robotron2084

02-04-08, 05:35 PM

They already had 2 they are called SARA and PASSPORT

And those were running on an 8300HDC box, right?
If not, then it's apples and oranges.

davehancock

02-04-08, 06:47 PM

And those were running on an 8300HDC box, right?
If not, then it's apples and oranges.Yes, there are TW systems that run SARA (1.90.xx.xx) on the 8300HDC box. There are also (non-TW) systems running Passport on the 8300HDC box.

jimholcomb

02-04-08, 07:25 PM

Woke up this morning and found the cable box set to channel 2, a sure sign that a reboot had occurred. Checked the diagnostics screen and it had rebooted at 4:37am. Since it happened during the night I'm willing to grant a mulligan, possibly they pushed a minor update to the box and it rebooted.

After I told my wife it had rebooted over night she said the tech who installed the cable rolled his eyes when she told him why the cable was being replaced.

The "rolling eye" tech was right. A reboot occurred at 8:45am this morning and just now at 7:20pm.

Jack Howarth

02-06-08, 09:51 AM

Here in Cincinnati with TWC, I have noticed a tendency for the 2-way communication between both an SA8300 (with passport) and a SA8300 HDC (with Navigator) to drop
out for periods of time. I haven't seen this problem in the past and am wondering if software changes for hardware upstream (for ODC compatibility) might be to blame.
Is this issue appearing in any other areas?

strikefast

02-06-08, 10:30 AM

Over the last week, I had a freeze followed by an auto-reboot about 3/4 of the way through a basketball game. The really frustrating thing is, it didn't just miss the 5-10 minutes of the game while the box was rebooting--it actually lost over an hour of the game right before the reboot. Whenever there was a power blink with my old 8300HD (Passport), it was much better in that respect in that there was typically only a couple of minutes' worth of the recording lost.

Then, this past weekend, I had my 8300HDC all set to record another game. I got home only to find the "Not recorded because the program was not available (4)" message in the Recording Log and no game. Really infuriating...

stuart628

02-06-08, 03:06 PM

so does anyone have a 8240HDC that they can comment on the stability of it? or is this just a newer box that is just getting out there? they are going to be at my house 10-12 tommorow nad get the filter off the line...but I would love to hear reports about this box before then, thanks.

wx27

02-06-08, 04:23 PM

We've seen posted dozens of times here how to bring up the 12-page diagnostic screens provided by Navigator. However, I witnessed a tech bring up a 20+ page diagnostic by pressing buttons on the 8300HDC front panel. Unfortunately, I got distracted and never asked him how he did it. Since I've haven't seen anyone else post anything regarding a more robust set of diagnostic screens on this box, I just want to make everyone aware that they exist. Perhaps someone who has an occasion to have a TW service person in their house (yeah, I know it's rare) could pry this little tidbit from them.

On the DVR, press vol + and vol - at the same time until the mail icon shows up, then press ch +.
Tons of pages of diagnostic info, although interestingly none of them indicate any version number that in the same series as the 2.4.8_2 that we see on the other diagnostic pages. I saw one line in hex, but didn't go through the effort of decoding it.

This set of pages is good for checking signal-to-noise ratios and signal strength on the channels you are currently tuned to. Helpful/confirmed my issue with ESPN2HD. Getting -16 to -17dB, which explains why that channel blacks out if I introduce a splitter into the system (-3.5dB).

Still waiting for an update to 2.4.8_2 so I can turn my external HD back on...

slickshoes

02-06-08, 05:48 PM

xnappo

02-06-08, 07:35 PM

Tons of pages of diagnostic info, although interestingly none of them indicate any version number that in the same series as the 2.4.8_2 that we see on the other diagnostic pages. I saw one line in hex, but didn't go through the effort of decoding it.

Still waiting for an update to 2.4.8_2 so I can turn my external HD back on...

That is good to know.

Personally I don't think the numbers that people have been using as the version (eg 2.4.8_2) is the only number that needs to be tracked. Many people have gotten updates without that number changing. Why not have a few people post some versions from the detailed diags?

xnappo

jnv11

02-06-08, 10:49 PM

Isn't TWC responsible for the signal all the way to your box??

No. Cable companies are legally only responsible for the signal all the way to the output end of your house's main splitter and amplifier combo unit (or the end of the feeder cable if your house does not use a cable company provided main splitter). After that, it is your responsibility. A similar thing can be said about your telephone line. The phone company is responsible only for the landline going into the network interface unit from the telephone network. What goes beyond that is your responsibility.

There are many reasons for this. For example, the cable company is not responsible in the case where you tried to put in a pet door and cut the cable. The phone company is not responsible for when someone cuts the phone line due to not being careful in the basement while putting in a workshop.

All you can do is be careful around the coaxial cables and telephone lines, and make sure that when you build a house that your contract with your contractor specifies quad shielded RG-6, that it specifies that every cable outlet have a dedicated cable to the main splitter, and that it specifies that cable network and phone network termination points should be located in a central wiring closet instead of outside. An internal network termination point makes it easier on the cable and phone tech whenever service is needed, and also allows you to use a dedicated coaxial cable to power up any amplifier that is needed instead of having one cable do double duty as a power supply line and as a line to carry power for the amplifier. This could reduce noise because inserting a cable signal onto the cable responsible for power creates a possible feedback loop in which the signal affects the power available for amplification.

davehancock

02-06-08, 11:03 PM

No. Cable companies are legally only responsible for the signal all the way to the output end of your house's main splitter and amplifier combo unit (or the end of the feeder cable if your house does not use a cable company provided main splitter).While that may be technically correct you may actually find that TW will actually come in and do a lot of stuff to correct the situation. It certainly does not hurt to try. I've found the TW techs in Rochester to be very helpful with signal problems.

BenJF3

02-06-08, 11:37 PM

I concur with Dave. The techs in Rome are helpful and took corrective action for my weak signal even though the level to the demarc point was "acceptable". I later installed an amplified (with zero return loss) 8-way splitter myself to eliminate the mess of cable and analog splitters, but the tech took the time to meter out all the lines. I personally would prefer an RG-11 drop from the node out front, but that would require digging up the buried cable. Anyway, since installing the amp/splitter I have not had any signal loss issues and usually maintain a level of +5db at each line. All of my drops are RG-6. So, I would start a trouble ticket and explain the situation. It won't cost you anything for a truck roll.

wx27

02-07-08, 02:35 PM

Personally I don't think the numbers that people have been using as the version (eg 2.4.8_2) is the only number that needs to be tracked. Many people have gotten updates without that number changing. Why not have a few people post some versions from the detailed diags?

xnappo

Well, if anyone has Navigator 2.4.8_2 or later and has an external HD working without reboot daily, I'd like some screenshots of the detailed diags pages. :D

Sar212

02-07-08, 03:03 PM

holl_ands

02-07-08, 05:43 PM

NO.
DVRs simply record the original MPEG2 data stream.

davehancock

02-07-08, 06:31 PM

I have Explorer 8300HDC DVR with Navigator. One of the HD channels (Universal I think) will show about 15 episodes of Jericho back to back this weekend. Since this is HD channel, there is no way I can fit all this on the small drive in Explorer. Is there any way to instruct or configure the box to record these shows in standard resolution?Actually, the 8300 should record about 20hrs of HD - so if you erase everything else, you have a shot at it. Also, about a year ago I measured the bit rate of various local cable HD channels. As I recall, UniversalHD had a relatively low bit rate. The result is that you may be able to record even more.

Sar212

02-07-08, 10:06 PM

davehancock

02-07-08, 10:21 PM

That is too bad I can't record this in lower quality. The disk is half full, it will be tough decision to delete it all. I wish I could connect the external drive, but TWC in New York City doesn't make it possible. I am really starting to hate TWC.Don't be too sure about that. Check the External Drive Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=516559). For the most part, cable companies won't tell you if the external drive will work on their SA8300s (though they will). Keep in mind, that success is very critical as to the drive and enclosure selected.

Here is a link to a database (http://baseportal.com/cgi-bin/baseportal.pl?htx=/xnappo/navigator) of drive/enclosure combinations that have been found to work with Navigator (recent problems reported by some notwithstanding).

jnv11

02-07-08, 10:47 PM

NO.
DVRs simply record the original MPEG2 data stream.

Actually, the 8000 series, 8300 series, and 8550 series DVRs have analog video encoders that sample the analog video, and then compress the video, like what Tivos do. This was necessary when some channels came in as analog only, like WACN (the low power Daystar Network affiliate located in Apex, NC), which only gave TWC a crappy analog feed and no digital feed, until TWC added the Daystar Network national feed to the digital variety tier, and channels that needed localization like The Weather Channel and TV Guide Channel. It made sense for these two channels to come in as analog only because they actually looked sharper as analog after localization than after they are recompressed and transmitted. TWC probably started recompressing the localized channels so that they could use less costly and probably more reliable cable boxes like the 8240HDC instead of the 8300HDC. They are probably more reliable because removing unneeded components reduce the heat produced, making overheating less likely.

The reason those two channels looked better as analog rather than digital is that recompressing something that was decompressed forces the codec to throw away more information each time video is recompressed. Since lossless video compression is impossible at the compression ratios required, video codecs only care about making an approximate match. Therefore, the video is damaged each time it is compressed or recompressed, causing some of the detail to get lost. One compression won't do much damage unless the codec is starved for bitrate or computational resources. Multipe compressions cause this damage to accumulate, making the video blurry or full or artifacts.

However, there is no option for any of these DVRs to reduce the data rate of shows stored or to downsample the shows stored, because almost nobody asks for that feature. If eSATA worked on these boxes, then I would recommend that you use it. However, since Scientific Atlanta rushed the 8300HDC to market without proper bug testing like the XBox 360 was and without upgrading the video hardware to meet the OCAP minimum standards, this hardware is sending programmers in wild goose chases where they are trying to work around the bugs in the 8300HDC, while Scientific Atlanta is trying to fix those bugs, sometimes causing those bug workarounds to break because many bug workarounds depend on the behavior of the bugs. (As for the XBox 360, it runs good games, but is well known for RRoD (the red ring of death that appears when the hardware fails due to overheating causing the motherboard to warp and break off some of its chips). It was not put through enough testing because Microsoft wanted to beat the PlayStation 3 in market launch time. Considering that the PS3 was delayed due to Blu-ray problems, this gamble did not pay off in the long run.)

All we can hope for is that the buggy hardware is replaced with 8500HDC series hardware, which was demoed at CES 2007 running Navigator flawlessly.

EDIT:This should be CES 2008. I found out very late that I was wrong about which CES this was demoed at.

VisionOn

02-07-08, 10:47 PM

That is too bad I can't record this in lower quality. The disk is half full, it will be tough decision to delete it all. I wish I could connect the external drive, but TWC in New York City doesn't make it possible. I am really starting to hate TWC.

You should start to hate Cisco as well. All their new boxes are still being produced with 160GB drives. It's all very well upgrading the memory and processors but if TWC finally gets those 100 HD channels and Navigator able to record them reliably that 160GB is going to be nothing.

BenJF3

02-08-08, 02:20 AM

wx27

02-08-08, 09:46 AM

I have Explorer 8300HDC DVR with Navigator. One of the HD channels (Universal I think) will show about 15 episodes of Jericho back to back this weekend. Since this is HD channel, there is no way I can fit all this on the small drive in Explorer. Is there any way to instruct or configure the box to record these shows in standard resolution?

If your box is running 2.4.8_2, you can still hook up an external HD, but the system will lock up after x hours of inactivity and force a reboot. In theory, this won't happen while the box is recording all those episodes back to back, and then you'd have them recorded on the external HD, which you could access with less headaches when they fix this issue that seemed not to exist prior to 2.4.8_2.

Weaselboy

02-08-08, 10:22 AM

Isn't TWC responsible for the signal all the way to your box??

Here at Desert Cities TW the TW tech will gladly run new RG6 inside the house for you, but it will not be pretty. They will just run the cable around the outside of the eaves and down the outside of your walls.

If you want the wire inside your walls replaced you will need to hire a contractor to do that for you, which is what I did.

I had twenty year old RG59 throughout the house and to make matters worse it was run as one continuous loop with one splitter after another.

New RG6 wire into a central run box significantly boosted my signal levels and cured all the cable modem drop outs I was having on hot days.

Satch Man

02-08-08, 05:32 PM

Agreed. I said all along that was an idiotic move. They should have a minimum of 500GB.

Absolutely!

The more memory in the boxes/DVR's the more it helps the Guide's OS, whether Sara, Navigator, or updated Passport.

Jack

jnv11

02-08-08, 08:17 PM

You should start to hate Cisco as well. All their new boxes are still being produced with 160GB drives. It's all very well upgrading the memory and processors but if TWC finally gets those 100 HD channels and Navigator able to record them reliably that 160GB is going to be nothing.

You may want to add Motorola to your hate list as well. It is Scientific Atlanta's only serious competitor, and its U.S. DVRs max out at 160 GB as well, giving Cisco no incentive to buy bigger hard drives for its DVRs.

None of Motorola's DVRs listed on this page (http://broadband.motorola.com/business/digitalvideo/productline_dvr_settops.asp) go beyond 160GB.

Adelmoxi

02-09-08, 12:54 AM

You may want to add Motorola to your hate list as well. It is Scientific Atlanta's only serious competitor, and its U.S. DVRs max out at 160 GB as well, giving Cisco no incentive to buy bigger hard drives for its DVRs.

None of Motorola's DVRs listed on this page (http://broadband.motorola.com/business/digitalvideo/productline_dvr_settops.asp) go beyond 160GB.

I would like to add a glimmer of hope to all you your comment about the future for Motorola's DVRS. Introduced @ CES was Motorola's DCX line of HD and HD- DVR's, these predecessors to the DCH line up have a 250GB HDD.

I found an officially Motorola Press Release:

http://www.motorola.com/mediacenter/news/detail.jsp?globalObjectId=9066_8995_23&pageLocaleId=2026

The Hard Drive capacity is not specifically listed on the PR, but I found one of many "news bites" that do:

http://www.techitorial.com/hands-on-with-motorola-dcx-series-mpeg-4-cable-stb/

Too those whom I offend, I apologize for listing this on a predominately Cisco (Scientific Atlanta) forum.

filcro1

02-09-08, 03:23 AM

Is there a way to tell which cable you have (RG-6 or RG-59) by looking at it? I'm now quite curious as to what's in my house.

Hmmmm.... I don't get it! If you've got enough poundage the digital signal does not care if it's 5 or 6. If you're low on a tree or need an amp I can see a few DB gain with 6 but I've got great Digital service with 5 and my own hand crimps all around. I used to work for Teleprompter and I can't tell the difference between an install with 5 or 6 if the signal is strong.

Has ANYONE out there seen a difference with the same "proper" or above DB levels from 5 to 6. I know I can't....

holl_ands

02-09-08, 03:33 AM

Here's the spec sheet for the Motorola DCX3400 OCAP HD-DVR (160 & 250 GB)
which supports H.264 (MPEG4) and VC-1 (WMVHD), eSATA & MoCA Multi-Room:
http://hnevents.techknowmoto.com/wp-content/uploads/file/ces2008/DCX3400_specsheet.pdf

Info for several Next Gen OCAP (aka tru2way) STB/DVRs was provided
in this post. Most are 250 GB...with external eSATA I/F (e.g. 500GB to 2+ TB):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12558076&highlight=panasonic#post12558076
New functions incl. MoCA for Multi-Room and IPTV/MPEG4/DDplus for movies, et. al.

They are intended to be available for sale at Retail stores, not just leased from cableco.
But don't expect to see them available at stores until this summer---hopefully after
they "fix" this new OCAP with Navigator/TVGuide/jGuide/TiVo EPG thingy....

And soon thereafter DCAS should become available....which may or may not be
supported in these boxes.....would be nice to simply return CableCARD to cableco.

Here are some of my pictures from CES2008 showing (mostly jGuide) tru2way:
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/ces2008
Note several channel display configurations....incl. 11 channels x 2.5 hours.

robotron2084

02-09-08, 12:56 PM

On the DVR, press vol + and vol - at the same time until the mail icon shows up, then press ch +.
Tons of pages of diagnostic info, although interestingly none of them indicate any version number that in the same series as the 2.4.8_2 that we see on the other diagnostic pages. I saw one line in hex, but didn't go through the effort of decoding it.

This set of pages is good for checking signal-to-noise ratios and signal strength on the channels you are currently tuned to. Helpful/confirmed my issue with ESPN2HD. Getting -16 to -17dB, which explains why that channel blacks out if I introduce a splitter into the system (-3.5dB).

Still waiting for an update to 2.4.8_2 so I can turn my external HD back on...

Thanks for the key sequence. Interestingly enough I am seeing version information on page 7 indicating both versions 2_4_5_4 and 2_4_8_2 for network, monitor and ODN, but just 2_4_3 for bootstrapper. Using the SELECT then Down Arrow sequence, the diagnostics there are still just showing me version 2.4.5_4 for network, monitor and ODN (and 2.4.3 for the bootstrapper).

But for signal-to-noise ratios and signal strength information, where should I be looking? Is it on the QAM Status page? I see an S/N value of 36dB and 34dB for QAM1 and QAM2 respectively. Is that what I'm looking for and are those good values?

xnappo

02-09-08, 01:09 PM

Thanks for the key sequence. Interestingly enough I am seeing version information on page 7 indicating both versions 2_4_5_4 and 2_4_8_2 for network, monitor and ODN, but just 2_4_3 for bootstrapper. Using the SELECT then Down Arrow sequence, the diagnostics there are still just showing me version 2.4.5_4 for network, monitor and ODN (and 2.4.3 for the bootstrapper).

But for signal-to-noise ratios and signal strength information, where should I be looking? Is it on the QAM Status page? I see an S/N value of 36dB and 34dB for QAM1 and QAM2 respectively. Is that what I'm looking for and are those good values?

The 34db is a touch low but should be fine. Below 32 will definitely cause problems.

xnappo

jnv11

02-09-08, 01:21 PM

Hmmmm.... I don't get it! If you've got enough poundage the digital signal does not care if it's 5 or 6. If you're low on a tree or need an amp I can see a few DB gain with 6 but I've got great Digital service with 5 and my own hand crimps all around. I used to work for Teleprompter and I can't tell the difference between an install with 5 or 6 if the signal is strong.

Has ANYONE out there seen a difference with the same "proper" or above DB levels from 5 to 6. I know I can't....

You are slightly wrong about the signal being digital. What really happens is that since a pure digital signal means all on or all off on a cable, it is a very big waste of bandwidth to send a digital signals thhrough wires. Also, pure digital signals degrade rapidly in a very long wire. Third, it is easy to lose synchronization if too many ones or zeroes are used in sequence without something preventing such sequences or a clock signal transmitted on another line alongside the data line. Fourth, analog signals are much more easily transmitted on lines originally designed for analog rather than digital signals. Fifth, analog can transmit much more information per second than digital.

Therefore, digital signals sent over phone lines (DSL), cable, and radio are converted to special forms of analog signals which are designed to be decoded back to digital perfectly assuming that the signal to noise ratio is high enough. Also, since noise must be tolerated, forward error correction codes are added so that the digital data can be reconstructed even if the analog to digital decoder occasionally misinterprets a bit due to noise at the expense of reducing the number of bits per second transmitted.

RG-59 is unsuitable for transmitting high frequency signals due to its high signal losses in high frequencies. It is best used for low frequency applications like analog only cable because it keeps enough signal to be usable at low frequencies. RG-6 is better for high frequency applications like digital cable and cable modems. Digital cable is usually allocated at high frequencies because analog channels hog the low frequencies. Cable modems use both low frequencies to transmit data to the cable company and high frequencies to receive data from the cable company. However, for situations where high frequencies are never going to be needed like security cameras and closed circuit TV, RG-6 is overkill, and the premium paid for RG-6 over RG-59 is completely wasted. Since cable TV will continue to have analog for a long time due to customers wanting to continue to use old TV sets, this forces digital cable to use high frequencies for a long time, making RG-59 unsuitable for cable TV anymore.

My house has a really long cable from the main splitter to my cable modem. This cable modem was nearly maxed out on transmit power, so I had to take steps to reduce signal loss, like removing a splitter, which disables the analog TV in my bedroom from the cable system, making it usable only for video games and DVDs. Also, adding a cable outlet closer to the computers and the main splitter and disabling the outlet even farther from the splitter and the computers also recovered some transmit power needed. When the transmit power was nearly maxed out, my Internet access speeds were not as good as they are today because all those things reducing signal strength must have garbled many upstream transmissions, forcing the computers to have to retry after timing out. These steps have reduced the transmit power needed by the cable modem and sped up Internet access. However, there is not much margin for my cable modem. Therefore, in my situation, every dB counted. The digital cable box is on an outlet much closer to the main splitter, so it has none of this trouble.