I'm so pissed at SA-8300 HDC with Navigator I think I'm about to have a coronary. Before I do, I just want to say what a piece of sh*t I think this box and software is. God, this is light years away from alpha level quality.

Well, in case I don't have a coronary, does anyone know how to reset the box so programs are erase from internal and external SATA drive?

It seems that if power goes off/on, it'll take me back in time to a program list thats about a week old. Even stuff that I manually delete shows up. And anything I recorded since has disappeared.

The previous box, a SA 8300 HD with Passport, was rock solid in comparison to this thing.

What state are you in? This seems to make a HUGE difference in Navigator's performance. You know, for those with problems, I think there was a recommendation a while back to not hook up an external drive. When people disconnected their external drive, Navigator behaved better. I know it is designed to accept an external drive, but until this thing is stable in all markets, users with issues, see if that makes a difference. Reboot after you disconnect the drive to "start fresh."

The composite information gathered from techs and engineers is that Navigator and these new C-card boxes are very sensitive to external devices in some markets more than others. While you will have less storage by disconnecting the external drive, you might have a more stable DVR in the process.

Jack

Hi Satch Man,

Thanks for the info.... This particular problem occurred while using an external drive so I'll take your suggestion. Strange this is the external drive worked for about two months with it.

However, before I even got an external drive Navigator was so bad in comparison to my previous 8300 HD w/Passport, I considered other options. However, I had to rule out Sat because of trees in my southern sky direction and I had to rule out Tivo because Time Warner is deploying SDV in my area. So I'm stuck with TWC.... :-(

Thanks,

merlintl

Hi Satch Man,

Thanks for the info.... This particular problem occurred while using an external drive so I'll take your suggestion. Strange this is the external drive worked for about two months with it.



Others have mentioned that a recent software push(from 2.4.5_4 to 2.4.8_2) broke the external drive support. Hopefully another push will fix it again. I would harass your local help desk, just for the one in a million chance it bubbles up to the developers.

xnappo

Hi Satch Man,

Thanks for the info.... This particular problem occurred while using an external drive so I'll take your suggestion. Strange this is the external drive worked for about two months with it.

However, before I even got an external drive Navigator was so bad in comparison to my previous 8300 HD w/Passport, I considered other options. However, I had to rule out Sat because of trees in my southern sky direction and I had to rule out Tivo because Time Warner is deploying SDV in my area. So I'm stuck with TWC.... :-(

Thanks,

merlintl


you are in luck! Tivo is getting ready to release a little bit later this year a USB "dongle" That will handle SDV, and ON demand programming, I cant wait for that as I WILL be snatching up a tivo series 3 or tivo HD then!

This past week I found a friend who just got cable, that he had obtained an 8300HDC that contained the new 'mystro' software; at least when your booting up that's what it is saying is running.

I understand that some treads have said they changed the named it 'navigator'.

Anyway, I ran out and exchanged my 'working' 8300HD DVR (two boxes), one of which had a 500 GB external SATA drive which until it crashed worked flawlessly

All of which was possible due to this 'Avsforum' and many thanks to all that had helped me a year ago.

But now, since I decided to join with the group who likes to have the lastest and greatest, I need some help, opinions and advice.

First, am I in the proper forum thread for this kind of discussion?

My first impression of the new software is kinda 'ho-hum', I can see that it's ready for major improvements but in general there is nothing really special about it.

Here are my first few questions:

I need to find out how to get into diagnosic mode on this box now. The 8300 HD with Passport running you held down the 'select' and 'exit' key for a few seconds and then let go. Presto, the diag screen appeared.. There I was able to check the condition of my external drive and that the system did recognized it.

I tried these key stroke combinations and they don't seem to work, does anyone know of the new key combinations that will bring that info up?

I know the box recognizes the external drive because when I did a cold boot it asked me if I wanted to format my drive and of course I said yes.

The other queston is that ever since I attached my external drive, the 'message/mail icon' is displayed on the box until it is fully up and running.

Does anyone know what this 'mail' icon is for?

Also we seemed to have lost some great features (yes, I already know it's slower than the old Passport software), like the ability when in 'fast forward ' mode to advance or jump in 15 minute incriments by doing a key stroke of the right arrow. And of course, this could be done in the reverse mode but this time doing the keystroke of the left arrow.

And the FF in general, only has 3 steps instead of the 4 provided by Passport.

At least they have a hand showing.

Ok, I'll end this here just in case I'm not in the correct forum.


As usual, many thanks for the advice..

Rob


Robert Lanza

I need to find out how to get into diagnosic mode on this box now. The 8300 HD with Passport running you held down the 'select' and 'exit' key for a few seconds and then let go. Presto, the diag screen appeared.. There I was able to check the condition of my external drive and that the system did recognized it.

I tried these key stroke combinations and they don't seem to work, does anyone know of the new key combinations that will bring that info up?

Also we seemed to have lost some great features (yes, I already know it's slower than the old Passport software), like the ability when in 'fast forward ' mode to advance or jump in 15 minute incriments by doing a key stroke of the right arrow. And of course, this could be done in the reverse mode but this time doing the keystroke of the left arrow.


Well I can answer the couple of questions above.

I am able to access two sets of diagnostics.
1) Hold Select until the mail icon flashes and then press the down arrow. This basically seems to be the diagnostics for the software and provides version information.
2) On the STB, hold both the Vol+ and Vol- buttons until the mail icon flashes, then press Ch+. This seems to be the hardware diagnostics and can give you information such as signal strength.

For the 15 minute increments. press and hold the fast forward button (or rewind button). After a couple of seconds it will begin to jump in increments.

Hi Rob,

robotron answered the questions I was going to reply to, but now that you have the navigator diag key sequences, can you report which firmware version your system is running? I am interested in the one where you hold select on the box until the mail icon appears, and then hit the down key on the remote.
I am running 2.4.8_2 and along with several others on this forum with this same firmware, we have had the same unfortunate experience with external SATA drives where it will work right after a reboot, but after the box is idle for a certain amount of time (~2.5hrs) the whole system becomes unresponsive and locks up, requiring a reboot to regain full function. Some posters theorize that the unit goes into a sleep mode and has difficulty with getting out of sleep mode with the external drive connected. I believe someone that used to have the previous firmware reported that their system was fine in that version and only suffered a few seconds delay when recovering from sleep mode. For now, my external drive is switched off and the cable box behaves fine.

Hi Satch Man,

Thanks for the info.... This particular problem occurred while using an external drive so I'll take your suggestion. Strange this is the external drive worked for about two months with it.

However, before I even got an external drive Navigator was so bad in comparison to my previous 8300 HD w/Passport, I considered other options. However, I had to rule out Sat because of trees in my southern sky direction and I had to rule out Tivo because Time Warner is deploying SDV in my area. So I'm stuck with TWC.... :-(

Thanks,

merlintl

Get a UPS. In general, if a computer suddenly loses power, you may have some data corruption, and here you are talking about two hard drives. Also, the external one should be up and running before the internal one starts to boot, and if they get power at the same time, who knows what happens?

Pedjar,

Thanks, so that's what's happening. Yes, I too am getting the freeze up and have to reboot the system.

I'm going to print out the sequence to get the box into diag mode. Someone here said they got 58 pages of diag info, I only got 9 pages and none of them listed the external drive as the old Passport software did.

So is this the correct forum and thread to talk about the new Mystro software.

I have two boxes, one in my bedroom and one in the living room. I upgraded both boxes after thinking everything was OK.

However, I only have the external drive on one box. So I can compare the both boxes.

And thanks for the 15 jump stuff, I'm going to try it out now.

I'll report back with version numbers.

Thanks again

Rob

robotron answered the questions I was going to reply

I am running 2.4.8_2 and along with several others on this forum with this same firmware, we have had the same unfortunate experience with external SATA drives where it will work right after a reboot, but after the box is idle for a certain amount of time (~2.5hrs) the whole system becomes unresponsive and locks up, requiring a reboot to regain full function.

Ok I'm getting it as well, as I said in my previous message.

What about this idea to try and attempt to fix it.

I noticed on my hard drive (WD Caviar 500GB) that jumpers 3 & 4 are for Power Up in Standy. At least that is what is listed on the drive and also when I go to the WD web site and look in the knowledge base.

I would like to try placing the jumper on this setting, my only problem, I can't find a jump pin to use. Can you believe that!

And thanks to Robotron, I managed to get into all the diag screens.

One thing that I still can't see, unlike the old Passport software, I can see where it lists the external drive. Does anyone know what page that is listed on.

Here is what I found as far as software versions:

Bootstrapper ver 2.4.3
Network ver 2.4.8_2
Monitor ver 2.4.8_2

For the hardware versions:

ROM Software ver PTV 1.2

Cablecard Model 0802 ver 0012

OS Ver 1.01.1 op 3.2

Man I hope I wrote that down correcty.

I did take pictures of a few screens but I'm not sure I can attach a photo to these messages.

If interested in seeing the diag screens, I'd be more than happy to post them (if someone can tell me now to do that).

I'm going to try the jump if I can find one, or steal one from some other hard drive that I have.

Rob

And if that doesn't work, how do we contact Time Warner or Scientifc Atlanta about the issue. Remember, the cable company is not really push us to put external drives on their boxes. So who can we report this to? Has anyone tried to report the problem?

Thanks

I noticed on my hard drive (WD Caviar 500GB) that jumpers 3 & 4 are for Power Up in Standy. At least that is what is listed on the drive and also when I go to the WD web site and look in the knowledge base.




Power management allows the drive to be powered-up into the Standby power management state to minimize inrush current at power-up and to allow the host to sequence the spin-up of devices.

All Western Digital Serial ATA hard drives come with PM2 (power management) disabled. This setting should be used for desktop/workstation computers. If you are using the drive in a RAID/enterprise environment, and wish to enable power management on the drive (controlled spinup via spinup command per ATA standard), place a jumper shunt on pins 3 and 4.


I think I will give this a shot tonight as well. I have the WD5000AAKS 500GB drive. I also have a defunct HD from my old desktop that I bet has a spare jumper. It was an IDE drive so there's likely one for the master/slave pins. Nothing to lose since I have not been using the external drive since encountering this issue with 2.4.8_2.

I'll also compare the rest of your diag with mine, but they likely match since I got my 8300HDC box in January in Manhattan. What we need is someone with 2.4.8_2+ that has no issue with external HD to report in.

One poster is using a workaround whereby he has the TV guide channel recording 24/7 so as to avoid the unit going into sleep mode. I actually thought about doing the same, although I'd have to reenter all my scheduled programming since I want this workaround to be lowest priority for conflicts, but then noticed that on my unit, the TV guide program isn't the same name listing. Tried some other random channel that seemed to have the same name listing playing 24/7, in 4 or 6hr blocks, but doing a series record with all new and repeats only triggered the very next occurrence to record.

I think I will give this a shot tonight as well.

WX27,

I tried it and it didn't work. Upon boot up it is saying the drive is BAD.

So that jump does something that the 8300HDC does not like.

If you have different results let me know.

So you said the work around is just to prevent the box from going into sleep mode or standby.

Does anyone know who we can contact to file a bug report?

Thanks

Rob

For the 15 minute increments. press and hold the fast forward button (or rewind button). After a couple of seconds it will begin to jump in increments.
Thank you! I was wondering if it was possible.

hey guys, im new here and new to the whole hd box scene. Well today i went to TWC and got one of those "wonderful"8300hdc boxes ive been reading about. my problem is that it gets stuck at E-13. I have unplugged it for periods of time, left it sit for a while to see if the things went away but no luck. Is there anything I can do or try that i might have not tried. Thanks!

WX27,

I tried it and it didn't work. Upon boot up it is saying the drive is BAD.

So that jump does something that the 8300HDC does not like.

If you have different results let me know.


Unfortunately I read your post after I had put the jumper on my HD and found out it did not work. Just got done reversing that surgery. I have now set up a series recording/keep only 3 episodes for ch 801/NY1N, which has the same program name all day long in 4hr chunks. I think another channel option is 199 (DTV freeviews & previews), also 4hr segments. I'll see if the box is still functional in the morning.

hey guys, im new here and new to the whole hd box scene. Well today i went to TWC and got one of those "wonderful"8300hdc boxes ive been reading about. my problem is that it gets stuck at E-13. I have unplugged it for periods of time, left it sit for a while to see if the things went away but no luck. Is there anything I can do or try that i might have not tried. Thanks!
You're doing the right thing, knut. You're pretty much helpless at this point. It sits on L-13 trying to load whatever L-13 represents from the host. If it cannot get what it needs, presumably due to signal quality, you end up with E-13. I believe that if you leave it plugged in, it will periodically try to reload. The first day I had my 8300HDC, I left it plugged in and checked on it every hour or so. I saw it go from E-13 back to an L-13. My point is that it will retry on its own and you can see this if, for example, you have an E-13 at 1 AM and then an L-13 at 2 AM.

The first load on the new box will extra-slow. I think mine took about 45 minutes. This was after several hours of L-13 / E-13, unpug, wait, plug in, etc. There's just not that much you can do besides making sure your connections are tight. Subsequent reboots, assuming good signal, only take about 10 minutes.

Note: I am not a cable guy. These are just my observations as a poor, pitiful TWC customer, so please forgive any technical inaccuracies.

Oh, of course you do need to call TWC customer service so you can schedule a service call. Make sure you have plenty of time because they will want you to sit on the phone and try the reboot, even though you've been doing it for hours already.

Good luck. After the initial month or so of my service with the HDC box being so bad it was virtually unwatchable, mine has actually been working pretty well for about a month, knock on wood. Nothing changed with the box or house wiring, so the problem was out in their network somewhere, but they never want to admit that.

-Marty

Unfortunately I read your post after I had put the jumper on my HD and found out it did not work. Just got done reversing that surgery. I have now set up a series recording/keep only 3 episodes for ch 801/NY1N, which has the same program name all day long in 4hr chunks. I think another channel option is 199 (DTV freeviews & previews), also 4hr segments. I'll see if the box is still functional in the morning.

10:30am, box is still functional with external drive attached. channel 801 works fine. Thinking maybe channel 199 would be slightly better as it seems that most of the time it just has a TWC graphic on, so mpeg compression should do really well on it.

*Just changed my setup to record channel 199. You just have to check the recording schedule every now and then to make sure you don't have any conflicts should you have two regular shows you want recorded at the same time.

*Just changed my setup to record channel 199. You just have to check the recording schedule every now and then to make sure you don't have any conflicts should you have two regular shows you want recorded at the same time.Unfortunately, with 4-hour segments, it seems that you could still hit a situation where you enter the sleep mode if you cancel a segment recording that conflicts with another program that is scheduled at the beginning or end of the segment. If you're recording a half-hour program, you'll have 3 1/2 hours if idle time; thus, triggering the sleep mode.

Also, doesn't this technique severly clutter your "Scheduled Recordings" list?

[QUOTE=martinmarty;13126427]You're doing the right thing, knut. You're pretty much helpless at this point. It sits on L-13 trying to load whatever L-13 represents from the host. If it cannot get what it needs, presumably due to signal quality, you end up with E-13/QUOTE]

Hey, I had the same problem and I found a way around the E-13. First, you need to call the cable company and make sure they programmed your account for that box as an 8300HDC not the 8300HD.

In my case, they didn't set the parameters at their end for the newer 8300HDC.

Most of the time the box will reboot correctly if you wait a full 24 hours or at least till the server send out the update signal.

But my work around was to do the following. Reboot the box (unplug it) and keep the cable off the box. Do not have anything attached to the 'cable in' on the box.

Let the reboot happen and the box will get hung just before it goes into Mystro with an error message 'Please wait, trying to connnect to service', (I forgot the exact wordage but it's something to that effect).

Wait a few minutes with that message, then without rebooting, attach the cable to the 'cable in' on the box.

The box will then be able to get the service, and for some reason will manage to get rebooted correctly. It will pass the the L-13.

Give it a try, it worked for me.

Rob

[QUOTE=wx27;13127783]10:30am, box is still functional with external drive attached. channel 801 works fine. Thinking maybe channel 199 would be slightly better as it seems that most of the time it just has a TWC graphic on, so mpeg compression should do really well on it.
[QUOTE]

WX27, ok I give up. Yesterday I broke my external enclosure and had to purchase a new one. I broke it when I was taking out the jumper. The box fell and broke the on/off switch. And to make matters worse, I think I crashed the hard drive. Luckly I had a brand new one on hand. (I''ve already done an RMA on the damaged drive).

Oh yes, I wanted to tell everyone, I wrote a message to both Scientific Atlanta and Time Warner reporting the bug with the external drive causing the cable box to freeze up.

Maybe someone will really look at my message and get it to the right departments. I only had an email address for customer service.

Anyway, I was going to ask everyone, if the best thing to do is to return the 8300HDC and go back to the 8300HD, till things get fixed.

Or should I wait a bit and just try doing this record thing that you are trying?

So let me be sure, I should set up to record something all the time, or just every few hours? You said channel 199?

Thanks

Rob

PS Did anyone else try and report the bug to Scientific Atlanta or Time Warner. I would like to stay with the new box and software. Although, I don't see anything that special in the new software, just yet!

Has anyone heard if/when Time Warner is deploying the Cisco 8550HDC that was shown at CES? My understanding is that the demo box actually had Navigator running on it.

I hope that the new boxes are deployed before the SDV/Navigator combo hits the NC Passport markets of Charlotte/Raleigh/Wilmington this summer.(I know new boxes in these markets already have Navigator, I am referring to those of us who are going to be "upgraded").

I too am suffering from the last software upgrade. An external 750gig hard drive worked fine for two months before this software upgrade. My cable box would sometimes freeze while actively watching TV with the external drive attached. So that seems to discount the continuous recording as a way to avoid the freeze.

I have 2.4.8_2 software.

Any one contact Time Warner about this? I haven't bothered because I assumed they would claim no support.

While this doesn't pertain specifically to Navigator, it does have serious implications for the future of Navigator. I posted a Time Warner update in the Syracuse/Utica HD forum that you may want to check out HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13069732#post13069732).

For the 15 minute increments. press and hold the fast forward button (or rewind button). After a couple of seconds it will begin to jump in increments.

Thanks for that bit of information :) I've been chasing that problem for the entire time (since October) I've had the 8300HDC box! I've talked to several TW customer service (?) folks, and NONE of them knew how to skip forward or backward like the old boxes did with the "right arrow" and "left arrow" buttons ... amazing (not).

Since you seem to know a LOT about these boxes and the Mystro software, could you take a look at my recent posting in another thread? ...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13128857#post13128857

and see if you can offer any advice or suggestions?

Thanks in advance for any help!:p

Unfortunately, with 4-hour segments, it seems that you could still hit a situation where you enter the sleep mode if you cancel a segment recording that conflicts with another program that is scheduled at the beginning or end of the segment. If you're recording a half-hour program, you'll have 3 1/2 hours if idle time; thus, triggering the sleep mode.

Also, doesn't this technique severly clutter your "Scheduled Recordings" list?

Clutter yes.

Conflict was a concern, but is partly mitigated because you would only have to cancel a 4hr segment if you have two other shows that overlap time, not just one. They could still both be half-hour shows and land near one of the ends of the 4hr block like your example. Too bad I haven't found a show that is in two-hour blocks 24/7.

I just hope that there is a fix out soon.

Oh yes, I wanted to tell everyone, I wrote a message to both Scientific Atlanta and Time Warner reporting the bug with the external drive causing the cable box to freeze up.

Maybe someone will really look at my message and get it to the right departments. I only had an email address for customer service.

Anyway, I was going to ask everyone, if the best thing to do is to return the 8300HDC and go back to the 8300HD, till things get fixed.

Or should I wait a bit and just try doing this record thing that you are trying?

So let me be sure, I should set up to record something all the time, or just every few hours? You said channel 199?


What's the email address for customer service? They seem to make it as hard as possible to contact the right people.

If you value the extra space without having to do a workaround, I'd try to get the 8300HD back, but I don't know if they'll issue any of those boxes in NYC anymore.

I have channel 199 on NYC TWC on series record, keep only 3 episodes.

Since you seem to know a LOT about these boxes and the Mystro software, could you take a look at my recent posting in another thread? ...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13128857#post13128857

and see if you can offer any advice or suggestions?

I have experienced each of the problems you described (plus one where I get 5 copies of the image - 2 along the top half of the screen and 3 along the bottom - some with either a yellow or purple tint). Unfortunately I've not found any solution to these. For the image problems, I've basically had to unplug the box and wait a bit to power it back up again. As for the recording problems, those typically seem to occur when two shows are recording and you're watching one and possibly switching to the other or pausing (because the dog is barking outside ;)). In those cases, I've begun to check the Show List frequently to verify everything is still recording. I actually lost the 3rd period of the hockey game the other night when my wife tried to switch to Lost. The screen stayed black, so she switched back to the game and watched Lost on the other TV. She figured the game was fine since the record light was still on. Turned out it was still recording Lost, but had stopped recording the game. So the lesson learned is, it's not enough to see the record light on, go verify what's really recording in the Show List.

Any one contact Time Warner about this? I haven't bothered because I assumed they would claim no support.

That had been my assumption as well. I just thought people had simply been luckly to this point that TWC hadn't yet disabled the feature.

As for contacting Scientific Atlanta, I tried that once but they basically make no claims about the box when it comes from TWC since TWC puts their own software on the box and does who knows what else to it before issuing it to us. They simply defer you back to TWC.

Thanks for that bit of information :) I've been chasing that problem for the entire time (since October) I've had the 8300HDC box! I've talked to several TW customer service (?) folks, and NONE of them knew how to skip forward or backward like the old boxes did with the "right arrow" and "left arrow" buttons ... amazing (not).


The CSR's are for the most part clueless. Once in a great while you get one that is knowledgeable on the tech side. I called about Clear QAM channels and the CSR kept trying to tell me the digital cable channel numbers and insisted that I "didn't get those channels as a basic sub" and I "needed a digital set top." She finally just said "I have no idea what you're talking about and don't even know what QAM is." I explained the FCC provision and regulation as to QAM carriage and was told that she would have a local tech call me back. The call never came (however, I did get an email that answered the question). The bottom line is I should not have to basically educate TWC reps on things they should know about or have reference to. They want to treat the customer like we are all dumb as rocks when they should know there are tech savvy people like us out here.

As for the recording problems, those typically seem to occur when two shows are recording and you're watching one and possibly switching to the other or pausing (because the dog is barking outside ;)). In those cases, I've begun to check the Show List frequently to verify everything is still recording. I actually lost the 3rd period of the hockey game the other night when my wife tried to switch to Lost. The screen stayed black, so she switched back to the game and watched Lost on the other TV. She figured the game was fine since the record light was still on. Turned out it was still recording Lost, but had stopped recording the game. So the lesson learned is, it's not enough to see the record light on, go verify what's really recording in the Show List.

My "no recording" problem typically occurs when I'm NOT recording anything ... just watching live TV. It's almost like the recording functionality for the "channel currently being watched" has shut down, gone to sleep, or whatever!

I never had this problem on the Scientific Atlanta HD-DVR that I had with Bright House Networks in Florida that was running their Passport software.

As for contacting Scientific Atlanta, I tried that once but they basically make no claims about the box when it comes from TWC since TWC puts their own software on the box and does who knows what else to it before issuing it to us. They simply defer you back to TWC.

I don't blame Scientific Atlanta for my problems, since I firmly believe that TWC is at fault here. It's just so frustrating to not be able to find anyone within their organization that will even acknowledge that problems exist with their software ... let alone someone who can at least say they are working on correcting the various issues. Clearly, TWC doesn't know the meaning of quality customer service!

If I was having this sort of problems with a brand new cell phone, or digital camera, or Blu-Ray player .... I would have returned it to the place of purchase for a full refund a long time ago. Last time I called them and implied that I might need to switch to satellite if they couldn't fix these problems, all they offered was a $20 credit on my current month's bill. Hardly adequate compensation, considering I'm paying them around $1,500 a year.

How about "FREE CABLE UNTIL WE FIX YOUR SOFTWARE" ??!!

What's the email address for customer service? They seem to make it as hard as possible to contact the right people.


WX27, first, I don't think I would have any trouble getting the older 8300HD back here in NY.

Second, I agree that asking for a bug fix is a hard thing to get done, but it doesn't hurt to try. Remember, some very wealthy excutives like this new gadgets and do have high paid techs to setup this stuff up for them in there mansions. So it probably will get resolved, otherwise we are legally allowed now to purchase our own Set Top Boxes. However, the cable companies are trying to stop everyone from knowing this fact.

I sent the same message (copy/paste) to Scientific Atlanta and Time Warner.

Time Warner, I sent through their 'contact us' web page and filled out a web form where you put your quesiton in.

Scientific Atlanta, I sent to: 'customer.service@sciatl.com'

Here is the message I wrote (please forgive any grammar and hopefully I explained the problem correctly):

Hi,

I recently upgraded my 8300HD (two boxes) to your newer 8300HDC which is now running Mystro software.

My cable company is Time Warner Cable and I am located in Queens New York (see exact address below).

I’m looking to find the right place to report a bug with the new 8300HDC. I will also try and report this problem to Time Warner Cable, but they are usually unresponsive.

The bug entails when having an SATA external drive hooked up to the new box. I did not encounter this issue with the older 8300HD box, in fact I had no problems with the older boxes.

I consider myself to be on the geekie side so it’s important to me to try and have this resolved if possible, and it will probably take an update to the software.

Ok the problem:

When having the external drive hooked up and working perfectly, it seems after about 2 hours when the 8300HDC goes into some kind of sleep mode or a standby mode, the system freezes up when trying to restore or come out of this sleep / standby mode.

The only option is to reboot the 8300HDC.

In my particular case I am fortunately enough to have two 8300HDC’s, one in my bedroom (which is the unit that has the external drive hooked up) and the second box is in the living room (which does NOT have an external hard drive added to it).

This second unit does not freeze up like the first box that contains the external drive.

I am part of a Audio / Visual discussion forum called ‘avsforum’ and it has a tread devoted specifically to the new 8300HDC running the Mystro software (which is really title Navigator software).

And in the forum everyone that is running a particular version of the software are ALL displaying this odd freeze up or lock up, which needs the box to be rebooted.

If there is any way to solve this, it would be appreciated to let me know. I am aware that these upgrades do take some time to implement but I wanted to at least get this bug into your hand for your review and inspection.

Please forward this message to the proper department that can handle this issue.

Also, please feel free to contact me for further data if you wish, I would welcome that (my contact info is listed below)!

Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.

Gratefully,

Rob

I don't blame Scientific Atlanta for my problems, since I firmly believe that TWC is at fault here. It's just so frustrating to not be able to find anyone within their organization that will even acknowledge that problems exist with their software ... let alone someone who can at least say they are working on correcting the various issues. Clearly, TWC doesn't know the meaning of quality customer service!

If I was having this sort of problems with a brand new cell phone, or digital camera, or Blu-Ray player .... I would have returned it to the place of purchase for a full refund a long time ago. Last time I called them and implied that I might need to switch to satellite if they couldn't fix these problems, all they offered was a $20 credit on my current month's bill. Hardly adequate compensation, considering I'm paying them around $1,500 a year.

How about "FREE CABLE UNTIL WE FIX YOUR SOFTWARE" ??!!

I think that a lot of times they WANT to help, but the CSR's don't have the basic knowledge or communications skills needed to answer even fundamental questions. 80% of the people on these boards are far more tech savvy than TWC will ever be. Many times the CSR's do not speak clearly. The issues (among many) are poor communication skills at the national level from within the company.

What are the qualifications for their CSR's? For their field techs? The jokes about only needing to drive a truck and climb a pole to work for ANY CABLE COMPANY can't be that far off from the truth. It's been a PR nightmare of this industry for the last 10 years. (at least.)

Here in Milwaukee, our company is very local oriented and puts so much money into eduction, diversity, Cable in The Classroom, and our Hang Tough campaign directed at kids to help against alcohol and drug abuse. These are all great things. But you wonder how much of the money for these local programs could be spent for better training for the CSR's and field techs. TWC needs to look at how they are spending their money on training and technology. Their community involvement outside of cable with these projects is wonderful, but all of this is secondary if the company can't train its CSR's and field techs with the proper training and competency needed to satisfy their customers. Their "Power of You" advertising slogan is a joke!

Better technology training and proper pre-education for the job are what is needed not only at TWC, but throughout the cable industry.

Jack

Well I can answer the couple of questions above.


Hi Robotron, I wanted to ask a couple of basic questions and am putting it out there for anyone to answer if they know.

Besides having to deal with the eSata issue, I wanted to know some stuff.

In the Device Settings under 'Power-On Keys' there are two options: Power and Power Numeric.

I have it set for 'Power' assuming it means that pressing the Power button turns on the box.

But what the heck is 'Power Numeric'?

Oh man, I had a second question and just forgot, well if I remember I post it.

Thanks

Oh yes, just remembered.

This was asked a few times from a few people: In the old Passport software when you were in 'diag' mode, you could tell if your external drive was seen and how much added space you had.

I can't find on any of the diag pages anything that relates to the external hard hooked up to the SATA port.

In the hardware diag page (vol up and vol down plus channel up) on page 8 there is something that says 'internal secure micro serial number: with a mac address, and below that it says external secure micro serial number (not detected).

Is that talking about the hard drive info?

Otherwise, I can't find anything else that might talk about the hard drives.

Does anyone know?

Thanks

Rob

I don't blame Scientific Atlanta for my problems, since I firmly believe that TWC is at fault here. It's just so frustrating to not be able to find anyone within their organization that will even acknowledge that problems exist with their software ... let alone someone who can at least say they are working on correcting the various issues. Clearly, TWC doesn't know the meaning of quality customer service!

While I won't pretend Navigator is perfect software, the hardware is clearly not free from fault either. There is a noted difference in quality between the SA8300HD and SA8300HDC.

I sent the same message (copy/paste) to Scientific Atlanta and Time Warner.Trust me, SA is not interested in bugs in software they didn't write. And TW isn't interested in bugs relating to things they don't support. We're just screwed until/unless TW decides to raise its priority higher than its many other problems.

Now if you want to report a bug to TW that they might listen to, complain that you are unable to replay a big play near the end of a basketball/football/hockey (you fill in the blank) game because the DVR went into sleep mode and quit buffering it. Its the same problem; just different symptom, and it eliminates the external drive complication.

As for the recording problems, those typically seem to occur when two shows are recording and you're watching one and possibly switching to the other or pausing (because the dog is barking outside ;)). In those cases, I've begun to check the Show List frequently to verify everything is still recording. I actually lost the 3rd period of the hockey game the other night when my wife tried to switch to Lost. The screen stayed black, so she switched back to the game and watched Lost on the other TV. She figured the game was fine since the record light was still on. Turned out it was still recording Lost, but had stopped recording the game. So the lesson learned is, it's not enough to see the record light on, go verify what's really recording in the Show List.

I second this... Same thing has happened to me a few times. When shows are recording, if I try to start watching one of them or another pre-recorded one, it is VERY easy for me to prematurely end the in-progress recordings without warning/confirmation.

Trust me, SA is not interested in bugs in software they didn't write. And TW isn't interested in bugs relating to things they don't support. We're just screwed until/unless TW decides to raise its priority higher than its many other problems.

Now if you want to report a bug to TW that they might listen to, complain that you are unable to replay a big play near the end of a basketball/football/hockey (you fill in the blank) game because the DVR went into sleep mode and quit buffering it. Its the same problem; just different symptom, and it eliminates the external drive complication.

I hope you are right about this being another symptom of the same problem (it sure looks that way, but you never know), as you are absolutely right that it would get their attention faster. Please do complain about it to TWC. Thanks!

I second this... Same thing has happened to me a few times. When shows are recording, if I try to start watching one of them or another pre-recorded one, it is VERY easy for me to prematurely end the in-progress recordings without warning/confirmation.

The thing is quite unstable when in "watching live TV" mode and both tuners are recording; any little thing (like pausing, or just tuning to one show or another) can cause it to stop recording the show you happen to be watching. The workaround I used is to immediately go to Recorded List and start watching some old show (then there's no issue) or start watching one of currently recorded shows from the beginning. Then the thing is in "watching recorded show" mode, I guess, and there are no problems. Also, as mentioned before, you can use the list to check if both of the shows are still recording, and if not set the recording again.
Also, even if only one show is recording and you want to watch it, do not tune to it and then rewind back, go to the Recorded List and start watching it from there.
I know it is a bit of annoyance that DVR is training you to do what it likes instead of the other way around, but, for me at least, it does not interfere with the way I watch shows (since the football season is over, I have yet to have two shows recording at the same time).

Well the workaround was working for about a day, then it failed. At the time, I know that the 24/7 channel was being recorded on external HD if it goes by the "whichever drive has the most room" rule. I was watching a show recorded much earlier on the internal drive. Went to 2x FF to go by some commercials and it got stuck in that state. Remote seemingly unresponsive. I did turn off the cable box power via remote, but oddly the show was still on the TV in 2x FF mode. Had to reboot the box. I've taken the external HD offline again.

I recently traded a perfectly working 8300HD w/ Passport for an 8300HDC w/ Navigator. I read about all the problems people were having but I decided I was willing to put up with it because the CSR told me I would have Caller ID on TV with Navigator, which was a feature I really wanted. Of course, now I have Navigator and I still don't have Caller ID, so bravo to the CSR who got me to switch my box for no reason.

That said, now that I have this box, I can't seem to figure out how to do certain things that I used to be able to do (or perhaps they simply can't be done):

1.) With Passport, I used to be able to choose a program from the guide, press C and instantly be able to see when it will be on again. With Navigator, I seem to have to press B for the keyboard and manually enter the title. Is there a better way?

2.) How do you reboot this damn thing?! I used to be able to hold down the power button. Now it seems my only option is to pull the plug out of the back. Is this right?

I've already had to pull the plug on this box once last week, as when I got home every single channel (even locals) was coming up as "To receive this channel, call".

Any info would be greatly appreciated!

- Mike

I can't seem to figure out how to do certain things that I used to be able to do (or perhaps they simply can't be done):

1.) With Passport, I used to be able to choose a program from the guide, press C and instantly be able to see when it will be on again. With Navigator, I seem to have to press B for the keyboard and manually enter the title. Is there a better way?

2.) How do you reboot this damn thing?! I used to be able to hold down the power button. Now it seems my only option is to pull the plug out of the back. Is this right?

Can't help on (1), but ...

(2) You can reboot the box without unplugging it. Press VOL- VOL+ and the INFO buttons on the front of the box all at one time, and this should begin the reboot process.

I recently traded a perfectly working 8300HD w/ Passport for an 8300HDC w/ Navigator. I read about all the problems people were having but I decided I was willing to put up with it because the CSR told me I would have Caller ID on TV with Navigator, which was a feature I really wanted. Of course, now I have Navigator and I still don't have Caller ID, so bravo to the CSR who got me to switch my box for no reason.

That said, now that I have this box, I can't seem to figure out how to do certain things that I used to be able to do (or perhaps they simply can't be done):

1.) With Passport, I used to be able to choose a program from the guide, press C and instantly be able to see when it will be on again. With Navigator, I seem to have to press B for the keyboard and manually enter the title. Is there a better way?

2.) How do you reboot this damn thing?! I used to be able to hold down the power button. Now it seems my only option is to pull the plug out of the back. Is this right?

I've already had to pull the plug on this box once last week, as when I got home every single channel (even locals) was coming up as "To receive this channel, call".

Any info would be greatly appreciated!

- Mike

Hi Mike,

I don't have Navigator in Milwaukee Wisconsin yet on my DVR. (They are supposed to be downloading Navigator to it sometime before the end of this quarter.) We still have Passport and they added TV Caller ID last December. Aside from sometimes shrinking and other times not showing up, it works well most of the time.

Remember everyone, you MUST have BOTH TWC Digital Phone and Digital cable service to have caller ID on TV.

When did you get your box changed? It can take 1-2 days for Caller ID to show up on your new or traded box. When you press A (for settings) and scroll to Caller ID, make sure that the Caller ID setting is turned on. If it is, and is still not showing up, or you don't have the setting, call them, ( I know that the wait on hold time is $hit.) Just say, "I had my box changed over to Navigator, and need my Caller ID on TV activated." If you aren't talking to a CSR who is an idiot, they SHOULD be able to activate TV Caller ID from the office.

Hopefully that will eliminate the wait for it (or at least reduce it.) When I was supposed to be getting my Movies on Demand with my package, I called and even when adding it to my account, it took about 6 hours for the change to come up on the box. But hopefully it should come through almost immediately.

The new Navigator boxes SUCK with rebooting!!! I have heard they can take 5-10 minutes. An unauthorized box can take almost a half hour or more. It seems that the new cable cards, indicated by a C on the box, are problematic whether they have Sara, Navigator, or Passport. How long does it take your box to reboot? This is why I am holding onto my non-C DVR for as long as possible! Let us know how it goes!

From what I remember with people who have been changed over to Navigator, you can narrow your search down by going to the Guide. (Press Guide) than B for Find Shows and than (I think) you scroll left/right to select the category you want Your choices are finding shows by Category, Rating, or Title. So to find by Title, Select Title Than use the Page+/- button and hold it down to scroll through the list fast. To scroll at normal speed, use the up/down arrow buttons.

To find shows by Theme. Press Guide, than B for Find Shows. Than Left/Right arrow to Category. Press Select. Now (as an example) use the up/down arrow to scroll and find MOVIES, than use the Left/Right arrow button to select the type of movie in the category. This should narrow down your list selection.

The question that I have is, let's say that you are in a subcategory. (You get there by pressing B to Find Shows, than left/right, to select Category, than page up/down to find Movies and you select Romance from the arrow up/down list. Now using this example with Romance highlighted as your Movie sub category, does pressing the B key on your keyboard just show a list of romance movies? OR do you have to redo the search all over again? If following this example brings the keyboard up and the categories down, that would be the only shortcut that I know.

To my knowledge on Navigator you can't just bring up a found show and than press the C button, which as you know in Passport gives you the immediate current and upcoming times that something is on. You have to narrow your search down using the examples above that are pertinent to the type of show and content that you are looking for when you press B, (Find Shows.) In Navigator, C takes you back to the previous menu or cancels an operation.

I wish I could offer more help. If we get changed over in March, I will be able to do more experimenting with menu shortcuts. What other things have you noticed about the new guide/box?

Jack

Well guys I gave up and gave in!

On Sunday, I exchanged my 8300HDC back to the 8300HD.

Because I have to cables boxes, I'm in a postion to monitor the version numbers and when and if they do an update, I can test out the external drive function (or I can just as easily check here with everyone).

If there were more features, maybe I would have waited it out, but I didn't see enough differences or enchancements to keep me with out my external hard drive which is the one feature that I loved and invested in.

Please keep me posted if anyone comes up with a workaround or something we can do.

Rob

While this doesn't pertain specifically to Navigator, it does have serious implications for the future of Navigator. I posted a Time Warner update in the Syracuse/Utica HD forum that you may want to check out HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13069732#post13069732).

For those in the NYC market... note the "promise" was "in the next 18 months." That puts it to mid year 2009.

Meanwhile, they very much CAN ditch a number of their 70+ analog channels and get more bandwidth... 4 months ago, they supposedly did drop 4 analogs that represent close to a dozen HD channels. Did we get ANYTHING from that... like maybe the 9 channels a few neighborhoods do get? Well, that's a big fat NO.

Well guys I gave up and gave in!

On Sunday, I exchanged my 8300HDC back to the 8300HD.


Rob

WOW... this is the very first time I've heard ANYONE being able to swap a HDC for a HD box. There have been many who have tried, it seems they get the "we don't have any." Which is 100% poppycock because going back to July las year, that story was being handed out.

WOW... this is the very first time I've heard ANYONE being able to swap a HDC for a HD box. There have been many who have tried, it seems they get the "we don't have any." Which is 100% poppycock because going back to July las year, that story was being handed out.There just had to be a few units rattling around that had been previously deployed (example: a customer who just had to have the "latest" and foolishly swapped their perfectly functioning SA8300HD for the Navigator infused SA8300HDC). TW is can legally deploy these previously deployed boxes.

New to the thread, and really the forum in general... but thanks to the fine folks on here I just purchased a 60" a3000 and I was completely set and ready to go with Time Warner, exchanging my old box for a new HDC box a day in advance...

and then today comes and my DVR is reading 0% full, yet I receive an error message any time I try to schedule a recording or hit the record button telling me that my DVR is full, please delete shows from the (empty) show list.

i tried searching the thread for some key terms so i apologize if this has been covered in the past, but is this:

a. a common problem?

b. something i can fix?

I'd prefer to not take more time off from work this week to wait on their 'emergency technician' who i'd guess will just try a different box.

On the positive side, the tv is awesome (and came with the newest firmware for those familiar with that tv's 'issues') and I'll have my monoprice HDMI cables tomorrow... and thanks to the writer's strike there's not a whole lot I'd be interested in DVR'ing in the meantime.

Thanks for the help (both in any response and to the forum in general)

edit - they've already tried 'resending the signal' and going through the ridiculously long boot process

I've decided to open a ticket with TWC via the web each time my 8300HDC reboots.

3 tickets so far.

Jim

Quick update. HDC was "upgraded" to 2.4.9_3 last night.
Going to re-connect the external HD and hope it is re-enabled. Going to connect, go to work (over night) and see if it works in the morning. Cross your fingers.

I've decided to open a ticket with TWC via the web each time my 8300HDC reboots.

3 tickets so far.

Jim

Hi Jim,

I notice that the help locations through the Internet vary considerably. We have for example in Wisconsin an interactive chat, E-mail contact, phone support, and a database forum where you can sign up, ask, and answer questions. What do you mean by "opening a ticket?" I don't think we have that type of service response in my area. If you open a ticket what does your TWC location do?

Thanks in advance!

Jack

Hi Jim,

I notice that the help locations through the Internet vary considerably. We have for example in Wisconsin an interactive chat, E-mail contact, phone support, and a database forum where you can sign up, ask, and answer questions. What do you mean by "opening a ticket?" I don't think we have that type of service response in my area. If you open a ticket what does your TWC location do?

Thanks in advance!

Jack

Actually I'm just taking the Contact Us option from the Raleigh web site which brings me to http://www.nc.rr.com/template/contactus.cfm

I get an email response with a ticket number. I haven't gotten a response back from the 1st ticket I opened last night yet.

We have the live chat and phone support, but no forum. The forum would really be nice.

Jim

Hi Mike,

I don't have Navigator in Milwaukee Wisconsin yet on my DVR. (They are supposed to be downloading Navigator to it sometime before the end of this quarter.) We still have Passport and they added TV Caller ID last December. Aside from sometimes shrinking and other times not showing up, it works well most of the time.

Remember everyone, you MUST have BOTH TWC Digital Phone and Digital cable service to have caller ID on TV.

When did you get your box changed? It can take 1-2 days for Caller ID to show up on your new or traded box. When you press A (for settings) and scroll to Caller ID, make sure that the Caller ID setting is turned on. If it is, and is still not showing up, or you don't have the setting, call them, ( I know that the wait on hold time is $hit.) Just say, "I had my box changed over to Navigator, and need my Caller ID on TV activated." If you aren't talking to a CSR who is an idiot, they SHOULD be able to activate TV Caller ID from the office.

Hopefully that will eliminate the wait for it (or at least reduce it.) When I was supposed to be getting my Movies on Demand with my package, I called and even when adding it to my account, it took about 6 hours for the change to come up on the box. But hopefully it should come through almost immediately.

The new Navigator boxes SUCK with rebooting!!! I have heard they can take 5-10 minutes. An unauthorized box can take almost a half hour or more. It seems that the new cable cards, indicated by a C on the box, are problematic whether they have Sara, Navigator, or Passport. How long does it take your box to reboot? This is why I am holding onto my non-C DVR for as long as possible! Let us know how it goes!

From what I remember with people who have been changed over to Navigator, you can narrow your search down by going to the Guide. (Press Guide) than B for Find Shows and than (I think) you scroll left/right to select the category you want Your choices are finding shows by Category, Rating, or Title. So to find by Title, Select Title Than use the Page+/- button and hold it down to scroll through the list fast. To scroll at normal speed, use the up/down arrow buttons.

To find shows by Theme. Press Guide, than B for Find Shows. Than Left/Right arrow to Category. Press Select. Now (as an example) use the up/down arrow to scroll and find MOVIES, than use the Left/Right arrow button to select the type of movie in the category. This should narrow down your list selection.

The question that I have is, let's say that you are in a subcategory. (You get there by pressing B to Find Shows, than left/right, to select Category, than page up/down to find Movies and you select Romance from the arrow up/down list. Now using this example with Romance highlighted as your Movie sub category, does pressing the B key on your keyboard just show a list of romance movies? OR do you have to redo the search all over again? If following this example brings the keyboard up and the categories down, that would be the only shortcut that I know.

To my knowledge on Navigator you can't just bring up a found show and than press the C button, which as you know in Passport gives you the immediate current and upcoming times that something is on. You have to narrow your search down using the examples above that are pertinent to the type of show and content that you are looking for when you press B, (Find Shows.) In Navigator, C takes you back to the previous menu or cancels an operation.

I wish I could offer more help. If we get changed over in March, I will be able to do more experimenting with menu shortcuts. What other things have you noticed about the new guide/box?

Jack

Thanks for all the info, Jack. That's pretty complete info, especially considering you don't have Navigator!

I swapped my box out about two weeks ago, so it seems doubtful that Caller ID is going to start working on its own. I'm going to have to give them a call and ask about it. Interestingly enough, when I press A for settings, there are no settings at all for Caller ID. Could that mean that it's just not available here?

My box takes forever and a day to reboot. The display starts off saying "boot", followed by "ait" (which I guess is supposed to be "wait"), then it reads "L-13" and counts down to "L-12", etc. This process takes at least 5-10 minutes.

>> Now using this example with Romance highlighted as your Movie sub category, does pressing the B key on your keyboard just show a list of romance movies? OR do you have to redo the search all over again? If following this example brings the keyboard up and the categories down, that would be the only shortcut that I know. <<

Yes, pressing B while you're in the Romance category brings up a list of all Romance movies along with the keyboard so that whatever you type will search within that category only.

I haven't noticed much else of interest with Navigator. I will say that it is nowhere near the nightmare I heard it would be. Other than one night a week ago when I had to reboot as a result of channels not authenticating, the 8300HDC w/ Navigator has run pretty smoothly. Is it better than Passport? No way. But it's been perfectly acceptable and has worked almost flawlessly so far.

- Mike

Can't help on (1), but ...

(2) You can reboot the box without unplugging it. Press VOL- VOL+ and the INFO buttons on the front of the box all at one time, and this should begin the reboot process.

Thanks! I'll try that.

Quick update. HDC was "upgraded" to 2.4.9_3 last night.
Going to re-connect the external HD and hope it is re-enabled. Going to connect, go to work (over night) and see if it works in the morning. Cross your fingers.

How do you check the version number?

Columbus, OH 8300HDC Navigator 2.4.8_2

I haven't been watching this box very often (it's in the workout room), but it still records several shows daily. I'm not certain when the latest software upgrade (2.4.8_2) was installed, but it was fairly recent as it wasn't there a few weeks back the last time I checked.

It's been about a month since I've found any series recording failures, so that's good news.

I did find it doing something odd this week, so I'm thinking perhaps the latest software 'upgrade' was installed last weekend. My Series Recordings of 'The Daily Show' and 'The Colbert Report' are set for 'NEW' Episodes Only. Prior to now, it was recording only the 'new' 11pm/1130pm airings. This week, it started recording additional airings, even though the guide did not indicate the repeat airings as 'New'. I confirmed the series setting is still for New-only. What's most odd, is that it didn't record EVERY airing (ie: 11pm/1130pm, 1am/130am, 10am/1030am, 2pm/230pm, & 8pm/8:30pm), but rather most of them. It seemed to record 2 or 3 times a day but not all five. I've disabled the series recordings on these shows for now since I've been watching them on my Passport box anyway. (I still haven't motivated myself to get on the treadmill regularly.)

I'm noticing the exact same thing with The Daily Show. I also have 2.4.8_2 here in New York City, and even though I've set it to record only New episodes, it's recording 3-5 airings per day. Also, there's no way to specify that it should only record 11pm showings, which might act as a second check on which episodes to record. Hopefully they'll get this fixed with the next release.

Thanks for all the info, Jack. That's pretty complete info, especially considering you don't have Navigator!

I swapped my box out about two weeks ago, so it seems doubtful that Caller ID is going to start working on its own. I'm going to have to give them a call and ask about it. Interestingly enough, when I press A for settings, there are no settings at all for Caller ID. Could that mean that it's just not available here?

My box takes forever and a day to reboot. The display starts off saying "boot", followed by "ait" (which I guess is supposed to be "wait"), then it reads "L-13" and counts down to "L-12", etc. This process takes at least 5-10 minutes.

>> Now using this example with Romance highlighted as your Movie sub category, does pressing the B key on your keyboard just show a list of romance movies? OR do you have to redo the search all over again? If following this example brings the keyboard up and the categories down, that would be the only shortcut that I know. <<

Yes, pressing B while you're in the Romance category brings up a list of all Romance movies along with the keyboard so that whatever you type will search within that category only.

I haven't noticed much else of interest with Navigator. I will say that it is nowhere near the nightmare I heard it would be. Other than one night a week ago when I had to reboot as a result of channels not authenticating, the 8300HDC w/ Navigator has run pretty smoothly. Is it better than Passport? No way. But it's been perfectly acceptable and has worked almost flawlessly so far.

- Mike

Mike,

I got all that info from a combination of coming to this forum and studying the menu screens for Navigator at my TWC Wisconsin site. On the Caller ID thing not showing up, if they are advertising it in your area and you also have digital phone, you should call to see if you have it, and get it activated. Do you have that All The Best package with Cable, Road Runner, and Digital Phone? You will really like Caller ID on TV if they have it in your area!

Jack

Actually I'm just taking the Contact Us option from the Raleigh web site which brings me to http://www.nc.rr.com/template/contactus.cfm

I get an email response with a ticket number. I haven't gotten a response back from the 1st ticket I opened last night yet.

We have the live chat and phone support, but no forum. The forum would really be nice.

Jim

Thanks!

Our site is not really a forum per se. It's a database with questions and answers about products and services.

Jack

Mike,

I got all that info from a combination of coming to this forum and studying the menu screens for Navigator at my TWC Wisconsin site. On the Caller ID thing not showing up, if they are advertising it in your area and you also have digital phone, you should call to see if you have it, and get it activated. Do you have that All The Best package with Cable, Road Runner, and Digital Phone? You will really like Caller ID on TV if they have it in your area!

Jack

Jack,

They're actually not advertising Caller ID on TV at all in my area. The only reason I thought I'd have it was because of the CSR who told me I would. I have a Triple Play package, but they're not calling it All The Best... I think they're calling it All-in-One Triple Play, but yes I have cable, road runner and digital phone. I've seen how great the Caller ID feature is, my girlfriend has it in a different TW division that uses SARA!

- Mike

You just need to be persistent. I'm on my 3rd box and I can report that it has been solid. I had almost every symptom reported in this forum with my first two boxes and finally had to replace my 2nd box because it wouldn't even boot. The only problem I had with the latest box was that 2 of my network HD channels had HEAVY dropouts (unwatchable). I finally found that one of the coax cables the tech insisted on replacing when he installed my 2nd biox was bad and my problems disappeared when I put my original cable back in. (Maybe that was the only problem with the 2nd box??)

It's now been 12 days since my last boot, I've lost no recordings, and no freezes or breakups. As with everyone else with this Navigator release (2.4.8_2) I can't reliably use my external drive. My conclusion is that these boxes are really sensitive to signal strength.

We can all argue over what features Navigator should or should not have, but I can identify only 2 obvious bugs:

- More often than not, if I let a recorded show play to the end, it briefly flashes the dialog box that asks what I want to do with the recording, then returns to current programming. To delete the recording, I have to go back to my Show List, find the recording I just watched, then tell it to delete the recording.

- Most of you may never have seen it, but the system actually tells you when it's entering sleep mode (after 3 hours of no user input). Unfortunately, the yellow announcement flashes on the screen for only a split second. At this point, your buffer has been flushed and further buffering has been discontinued. This is also the time when those with external drives are screwed and next time you press any button on the remote, your system will lock up and you'll have to reboot. Even without an external drive, you'll no longer be able back up and replay. However, once you've shown the system that you're really awake, it will begin buffering again.

If they could just solve this sleep mode problem with external drives, I would be a very happy customer.

We can all argue over what features Navigator should or should not have, but I can identify only 2 obvious bugs:

- More often than not, if I let a recorded show play to the end, it briefly flashes the dialog box that asks what I want to do with the recording, then returns to current programming. To delete the recording, I have to go back to my Show List, find the recording I just watched, then tell it to delete the recording.

- Most of you may never have seen it, but the system actually tells you when it's entering sleep mode (after 3 hours of no user input). Unfortunately, the yellow announcement flashes on the screen for only a split second. At this point, your buffer has been flushed and further buffering has been discontinued. This is also the time when those with external drives are screwed and next time you press any button on the remote, your system will lock up and you'll have to reboot. Even without an external drive, you'll no longer be able back up and replay. However, once you've shown the system that you're really awake, it will begin buffering again.

Maybe I'm not "sufficiently informed" (and I know I'm definitely not an expert!) ... but most if not all this discussion has referenced "Passport" or "Navigator" software. I am experiencing BOTH of the irritations I quoted above ... but my 8300HDC box is running "Mystro" software, or at least that's what is splashed across my screen when I re-boot.

Do I have different software ... or is my "Mystro" the same as your "Navigator" or "Passport"?

I'm noticing the exact same thing with The Daily Show. I also have 2.4.8_2 here in New York City, and even though I've set it to record only New episodes, it's recording 3-5 airings per day. Also, there's no way to specify that it should only record 11pm showings, which might act as a second check on which episodes to record. Hopefully they'll get this fixed with the next release.

Funny, that sounds like Passport, not the new software. One of the very few actual benefits of the new stuff was supposed to be that it was "smarter" about NOT recording multiple copies of the same episode. From what you are saying, one of the only actual benefits seems to be...not there.

... or is my "Mystro" the same as your "Navigator" or "Passport"?

Mystro is NOT Passport.

It's now been 12 days since my last boot, I've lost no recordings, and no freezes or breakups. As with everyone else with this Navigator release (2.4.8_2) I can't reliably use my external drive. My conclusion is that these boxes are really sensitive to signal strength.

We can all argue over what features Navigator should or should not have...

From watching this thread, I concluded that one actual benefit was in dealing with multiple copies of a particular episode. Think re-broadcasts in HD of shows we can only see original episodes in SD (BSG, Torchwood are good examples). No "New" designator, so we have to manual manage those multiple broadcasts (when using series recordings). According to several posts, the new software is smart and will only actual record one such episode. So this became my "well, at least I get ONE thing I didn't have before" when they force it down my throat.

Now we seem to have an indication this may not be true. As one who doesn't seem embroiled in all the other issues, can you say that it really DOES work this way? Or would it record multiple copies of the very same episode like passport does?

Mystro is the code name for Navigator. This is similar to how Intel code named its original batch of Core 2 Duo chips "Conroe", and how its newest series of Core 2 Duo chips are code named "Wolfdale".

Mystro is the code name for Navigator. This is similar to how Intel code named its original batch of Core 2 Duo chips "Conroe", and how its newest series of Core 2 Duo chips are code named "Wolfdale".

Thanks :) now I can relate better to the comments about "Navigator" ...

Quick update. HDC was "upgraded" to 2.4.9_3 last night.
Going to re-connect the external HD and hope it is re-enabled. Going to connect, go to work (over night) and see if it works in the morning. Cross your fingers.


Failure. Same old thing, box needed to be unplugged then plugged back in order to be turned on. Oh well, I'm starting to think that these HDC boxes will never support an external.

From watching this thread, I concluded that one actual benefit was in dealing with multiple copies of a particular episode. Think re-broadcasts in HD of shows we can only see original episodes in SD (BSG, Torchwood are good examples). No "New" designator, so we have to manual manage those multiple broadcasts (when using series recordings). According to several posts, the new software is smart and will only actual record one such episode. So this became my "well, at least I get ONE thing I didn't have before" when they force it down my throat.

Now we seem to have an indication this may not be true. As one who doesn't seem embroiled in all the other issues, can you say that it really DOES work this way? Or would it record multiple copies of the very same episode like passport does?For the most part, Navigator is smart enough to handle re-broadcasts of shows. For example, I've set up a series recording for South Park and I get what you'd expect: only one recording of each episode. This is because South Park has episode names and apparently Navigator uses this to avoid duplicates. However, if you try to set up a series recording of Cobert Report, you're going to get every single re-broadcast of the show because Cobert does not have episode names.

Help seems to be coming to handle the Cobert phenomenon. We've seen documentation for Navigator (Nebraska, I believe) that indicates (among other things) that a specific time slot can be specified for a series recording.

How do you check the version number?

Hold down the center select button on remote until mail icon flashes then hit the down arrow button (right beneath the select button) the diagnostic screen will load. The Network Version is what you're looking for.

Failure. Same old thing, box needed to be unplugged then plugged back in order to be turned on. Oh well, I'm starting to think that these HDC boxes will never support an external.Major bummer. I was hoping you'd have better news.

Did 2.4.9_3 have any noticable new features?

Major bummer. I was hoping you'd have better news.

Did 2.4.9_3 have any noticable new features?

I haven't really had time to check, but from the brief time looking at it last night, no I haven't found any new features.

I can't believe that Time Warner has not scrapped this project. It's going on almost TWO years from deployment and still massive problems exist! This is a bigger disaster than Vista! I'm so thankful we still have SARA based software here because these issues would put me over the top. I would have certainly switched providers by this point. I don't know how you guy cope. What if anything is TWC doing as compensation for the problems?

I can't believe that Time Warner has not scrapped this project. It's going on almost TWO years from deployment and still massive problems exist! This is a bigger disaster than Vista! I'm so thankful we still have SARA based software here because these issues would put me over the top. I would have certainly switched providers by this point. I don't know how you guy cope. What if anything is TWC doing as compensation for the problems?

Nothing.


No refund for disgruntled Time Warner Cable subscribers
By ALGIS J. LAUKAITIS / Lincoln Journal Star
Friday, Jan 25, 2008 - 12:09:29 am CST

Time Warner Cable customers who were frustrated and dissatisfied with the company’s Navigator software won’t be getting a refund in the mail.

Mayor Chris Beutler and other city officials have been trying to negotiate some type of compensation for customers who experienced dark or frozen television screens and other technical problems with the Navigator channel-guide software in 2006.

The Cable Advisory Board had recommended that Time Warner give subscribers a 35 percent rebate on their bills from the time Navigator was installed through April 30, 2007. On Thursday, assistant city attorney Steve Huggenberger told the advisory board that the city did not have enough leverage to compel Time Warner to compensate its disgruntled subscribers.

“We have no legal authority,” Huggenberger said in an interview. “Empty threats — that’s all we had.”

However, he said, the company did agree to continue its current policy of handling complaints on an individual basis.

http://www.journalstar.com/articles/2008/01/25/news/local/doc479937a216662495440126.txt

And they've had the worst of it. So everyone else expect to receive less than nothing for your trouble.

We just recently upgraded to an HD DVR and "blessed" with an 8300HDC with the Navigator software. We used to have an old Passport box, so there are a couple things I like about Navigator but a lot more things I don't like.

My current issue is that it has been refusing to record new shows because the disk is full. I thought it was supposed to delete old shows to make room for the new ones? I can't seem to find any setting on the series options to say how long to keep shows, just up to how many to keep. Has anyone seen this problem before? Am I just going to have to manually delete shows to keep enough space?

Nothing.

That's unreal! So, you pay $8 a month for DVR service that doesn't work as advertised and they don't even credit that back when the unit flakes out? I'd be pissed with that. The only thing I'm hoping for is that they at least have issues worked out here before they make the switch.

I can't believe that Time Warner has not scrapped this project. It's going on almost TWO years from deployment and still massive problems exist! This is a bigger disaster than Vista! I'm so thankful we still have SARA based software here because these issues would put me over the top. I would have certainly switched providers by this point. I don't know how you guy cope. What if anything is TWC doing as compensation for the problems?

And things are about to get worse... :mad::mad:

TWC San Diego will officially roll out Navigator on February 26. We just got notification in the mail (not e-mail, US Mail) about the cutover. About 300,000 customers will be affected.

Goodbye Passport, Hello Crapigator.

Anybody got any ideas on how to get our local TWC to delay or cancel this?

I'm new to the forum and I just got my DVR about a month ago. I tried to do a scan of this thread but trying to go over 115 pages is hard.

Anyhow!!!

I have a SA8300HDC - TW Navigator 2.4.8_2. When I try to record two shows they both have black screens. The list shows them as recording but after the show ends it no longer shows them.

It does this about half of the time. Tonight I lost two shows that I really wanted. It doesn't do this all of the time but enough that it really pi$$es me off.

Anyone have any ideas on this?

Nothing.



And they've had the worst of it. So everyone else expect to receive less than nothing for your trouble.


That SUCKS For Nebraska subs!

At least, according to the reports on this forum, Navigator works MUCH MUCH better for them than their Navigator horrors of last year. I haven't seen any RECENT Nebraska complaints about Navigator functionality from the Nebraska division. They did get some new updates, like the ability to set time slots for series recording. I suppose they deserve to get them first after the horrors that they have gone through.

I think that much depends on where you live and whether you are using a C or non-C box/DVR. We have learned that the non-C boxes are better quality than the C boxes. The C stands for integrated Cable Card and a lot of the boxes regardless of Sara, Passport, or Navigator models, don't like the integrated cable card.

I would like to hear more from anybody who is running Navigator on a NON C DVR. TWC-Wisconsin expects these boxes to be the last to update before the end of March. Our Wisconsin division only has Navigator on employees non-C DVR's. Higher ups, I have learned, said that their were some issues, but wouldn't comment on them (big surprise!)

Wisconsin had the Navigator test run as one of the Beta states back in January 2007. They aborted Navigator through downloads to boxes around March 2007 because of problems. In July, they started giving out the C boxes per FCC mandates that required cable companies to do so beginning July 1st. Many Passport units, although used, were still being given out at the time. I got switched to the TWC All in One Package in August with a Passport DVR. (Probably one of the last ones) Although I have heard that if you look long and hard, some TWC divisions still have them. All non-refurbished boxes (New) are now C Models with Navigator in TWC Wisconsin. Pace, Pioneer, and SA non-DVR's have been "Navigated." The SA non C DVR's have not. My hope is that they do the Navigator download to the SA 8000's first. Than, if those are converted with little to no issues, I would think that the 8300's would be better.

Jack

And things are about to get worse... :mad::mad:

TWC San Diego will officially roll out Navigator on February 26. We just got notification in the mail (not e-mail, US Mail) about the cutover. About 300,000 customers will be affected.

Goodbye Passport, Hello Crapigator.

Anybody got any ideas on how to get our local TWC to delay or cancel this?

Hmmmmm ... maybe you can unplug your box between midnight and 6am? :rolleyes:

I'm new to the forum and I just got my DVR about a month ago. I tried to do a scan of this thread but trying to go over 115 pages is hard.

Anyhow!!!

I have a SA8300HDC - TW Navigator 2.4.8_2. When I try to record two shows they both have black screens. The list shows them as recording but after the show ends it no longer shows them.

It does this about half of the time. Tonight I lost two shows that I really wanted. It doesn't do this all of the time but enough that it really pi$$es me off.

Anyone have any ideas on this?You're the first to report this. Looks like you need to call TW.

SA 8300 HD/Navigator on Comcast Punta Gorda, FL.
just got box and have problem of when recording from guide program is broken down in 1 minute segements 2 to 3 times and then 57 minutes for rest of program if I am lucky.

Should I get a new box or is there a fix for this problem
Thanks:confused:

I'll second the multiple recordings on "New" shows, it bites. They obviously don't regression test their incremental updates very well....zheesh TWC is stupid. They could get thousands of volunteer BETA testers at drop of a hat.

Any news on Tivo support for SDV or Sat?

Actually I'm just taking the Contact Us option from the Raleigh web site which brings me to http://www.nc.rr.com/template/contactus.cfm

I get an email response with a ticket number. I haven't gotten a response back from the 1st ticket I opened last night yet.

We have the live chat and phone support, but no forum. The forum would really be nice.

Jim
Hi, Jim. I'm in Raleigh too and after several problems with my 8300HDC I emailed them on the web site too. All I got was a response to call the phone number and request service. I'm on my 5th (maybe 6th, I've lost count) box. The last one they gave me an 8240HDC instead. It lost audio once but so far so good.

Have you noticed our firmware is way behind many of the others on the forum? I'm on 2.4.5_4 and have been since I ordered digital in September.

The last tech out here said all Raleigh TWC would be moved to Navigator on 2/29. He said he was taking vacation on that day.

Passport will be going away in every TWC division that offers it. Every cable box will either have MDN(Mystro Dig. Navigator) or ODN.. basically the same thing. All of the 8300hdc's have ODN, which is basically OCAP(open cable application platform), Time Warner had no control over which boxes they rolled out. This was done by the FCC. Cable companies have to use a box with an open cable platform. The HDC's basically have cable cards in them. (i'm told you cannot remove). I've heard Time warner is working on fixes for these problems and we just have to be patient because its a 99% chance you will not get an old box anymore. As for the old boxes with Passport: they will eventually have the Mystro software/firmware. The problems will not be as great b/c the box is not a HDC.. no cable card interface in the rear.. look up OCAP and read up on it.. but let's all be patient.. The best thing to do to these boxes for now is to reboot when you see a problem, b/c trading your box will only upset you even more.

...I've heard Time warner is working on fixes for these problems and we just have to be patient because its a 99% chance you will not get an old box anymore.

...As for the old boxes with Passport: they will eventually have the Mystro software/firmware. The problems will not be as great b/c the box is not a HDC.. no cable card interface in the rear.. look up OCAP and read up on it.. but let's all be patient


The key word here is patient. I'm sorry, but TWO YEARS is plenty patient as far as I'm concerned for anyone having these issues. I always said that once we get Navigator, I will give Time Warner six months tops to have it working as it should. If they can't, then they lose a sub. Simple as that. They have had more than enough time to figure these problems out.

The Navigator issue coupled with the lack of information about HD. Some markets have 50 channels while we have about 20? When pressed on the issue, I get a canned response of "when they become available, we will let you know". TWC is already pushing me away and we don't even have Navigator yet!

I've heard Time warner is working on fixes for these problems and we just have to be patient because its a 99% chance you will not get an old box anymore. As for the old boxes with Passport: they will eventually have the Mystro software/firmware. The problems will not be as great b/c the box is not a HDC.. no cable card interface in the rear.. look up OCAP and read up on it.. but let's all be patient.

I'll reiterate what I posted before and what was just posted above.

This has been publicly deployed for two years. It has been in development for going on six years. Patience isn't relevant.

For the most part, Navigator is smart enough to handle re-broadcasts of shows. For example, I've set up a series recording for South Park and I get what you'd expect: only one recording of each episode. This is because South Park has episode names and apparently Navigator uses this to avoid duplicates. However, if you try to set up a series recording of Cobert Report, you're going to get every single re-broadcast of the show because Cobert does not have episode names.

Help seems to be coming to handle the Cobert phenomenon. We've seen documentation for Navigator (Nebraska, I believe) that indicates (among other things) that a specific time slot can be specified for a series recording.

Ah, I see your point. I've used Passport's series time setting ability to deal with it, so I sure hope it's implemented in that new stuff they are going to force on me...

What really gets my goat through is why everything isn't tagged with season/episode numbers. A simple "S1E4" would be oh so handy... after all they KNOW the info, they just don't seem to want US to know the info.

SA 8300 HD/Navigator on Comcast Punta Gorda, FL.
just got box and have problem of when recording from guide program is broken down in 1 minute segements 2 to 3 times and then 57 minutes for rest of program if I am lucky.

Should I get a new box or is there a fix for this problem
Thanks:confused:You're giving inconsistent info. You say your service is Comcast, but Navigator is strictly a Time Warner system. Also, so far, it's only been deployed on 8300 HDC boxes.

I am on sara 1.89.17.1 and have the Daily Show and Colbert set for new only.Rarely miss a episode and it only records the new shows.The only ones I have missed are some that did not have the new flag and sara recorded none.Sara also as Passport has time slot recording that solves many problems.Why cannot the Navigtor folk see what Sara and Pasport has that works and mimic them.Stupd TWC programmers.

You're giving inconsistent info. You say your service is Comcast, but Navigator is strictly a Time Warner system. Also, so far, it's only been deployed on 8300 HDC boxes.

You also gave Maryland for your profile location. Out of curiosity, do you have Navigator there?

Jack

Why cannot the Navigtor folk see what Sara and Pasport has that works and mimic them.Stupd TWC programmers.Does this answer your question?

http://www.timewarnercable.com/Nebraska/products/cable/mdn/Enhancements.html

I live in MD but have a winter home in Florida. I have comcast service in Fl. with SA 8300HD that gives a Navigator decal when it loaded up, so I assume Comcast has provided a SA box with Navigator.

IT is a SA 8300 HDC

mmulligan, just a tip: If you use the edit button on your post you can update it without making an entirely new post. I do it frequently as needed and it helps keep thread length from becoming bloated.

Hi, Jim. I'm in Raleigh too and after several problems with my 8300HDC I emailed them on the web site too. All I got was a response to call the phone number and request service. I'm on my 5th (maybe 6th, I've lost count) box. The last one they gave me an 8240HDC instead. It lost audio once but so far so good.

Have you noticed our firmware is way behind many of the others on the forum? I'm on 2.4.5_4 and have been since I ordered digital in September.

The last tech out here said all Raleigh TWC would be moved to Navigator on 2/29. He said he was taking vacation on that day.

I'm on my 5th box and I'm really tired of swapping them out. The current one just rebooted 3 times in a row until I power cycled it. I thought I would be nice and only open 1 new ticket for that despite my pledge to them that I would open one for each reboot. I've submitted 4 tickets this week, no response to any of them.

I had read somewhere about 4 months ago an update was going to happen within 2 weeks, that never happened (for me at least) and I'm on the same version as you.

So I got a nice color brochure in the mail yesterday(Cary NC). It said that they would be rolling out the Crapigator to all boxes in the near future. It also said that we should expect problems with the DVR after the rollout! It said that there is a chance that it would erase the programs we already have stored and it suggested that we just delete them to be on the safe side!

Who the H$LL comes up with this stuff. They know there will be problems, they are telling us about these problems, and they are still rolling it out anyway. The day it rolls out is the day I call DirectTV!

Does anyone know when the rollout to the older 8300's will happen in the Raleigh NC area?

I live in MD but have a winter home in Florida. I have comcast service in Fl. with SA 8300HD that gives a Navigator decal when it loaded up, so I assume Comcast has provided a SA box with Navigator.

Interesting,

I recall that when digital cable came out around 2001 the Passport Guide was called the Passport Navigator. But Navigator this new IPG that most people hate, is an exclusive TWC IPG developed by TWC. So it raises food for thought, did Comcast roll out a new guide recently?

Some areas of Florida are serviced by Brighthouse Networks, which as I understand it, is an independent outlet that uses TWC digital phone, their Road Runner, and their cable technology. The Brighthouse subs got Navigator a while back. The Navigator on the C-boxes with all the blue screens.

Are you happy with Comcast?

Jack

I haven't followed it recently and will look it up to see what I can find out, but I thought Comcast was partnering up with Tivo to release a DVR solution. I recall the early prospects looked promising and I even stated that this is what Time Warner should have looked at from the get go.

Here is the Comcast Tivo page for your review. (http://www.comcast.com/tivo/)

Looks outstanding and the kicker is that it only costs $2.95 over the standard Comcast DVR price. Who wouldn't pay an extra $3 to upgrade from the cable co guide???? If Time Warner offered this, I wouldn't even be thinking about DirecTV right now! Watch the demos and see what I mean. Plus, it is my understanding that the Tivo Software is OCAP certified and compliant. Thus begs the question: If it is OCAP compatible then couldn't Time Warner offer it?

Does this answer your question?

http://www.timewarnercable.com/Nebraska/products/cable/mdn/Enhancements.html

I understand what you are saying.However how many Navigator customers have these features now?

So I got a nice color brochure in the mail yesterday(Cary NC). It said that they would be rolling out the Crapigator to all boxes in the near future. It also said that we should expect problems with the DVR after the rollout! It said that there is a chance that it would erase the programs we already have stored and it suggested that we just delete them to be on the safe side!

Who the H$LL comes up with this stuff. They know there will be problems, they are telling us about these problems, and they are still rolling it out anyway. The day it rolls out is the day I call DirectTV!

Does anyone know when the rollout to the older 8300's will happen in the Raleigh NC area?

Would it be possible for you to scan that brochure and post a copy? I'm particularly interested because ... when I awoke this morning, I found that TW apparently downloaded new software to my 8300HDC box overnight.

Yesterday, my network version was 2.4.4_2 (2007/06/26) ... and this morning it showed 2.4.9_3 (2008/01/24). The download "reset" the Aspect Ratio back to 4:3, and the Output Resolution to 480i ... you can imagine what my picture looked like this morning, not knowing right away that TW had done anything!

I wish TW would be more proactive in letting its customers know to expect changes that they will be making ... and the impact they will have. Apparently the "Eastern NC" TW folks aren't on the same page in this regard as their counterparts in the Triangle area. At least you got notified in advance of upcoming changes.

Would it be possible for you to scan that brochure and post a copy? I'm particularly interested because ... when I awoke this morning, I found that TW apparently downloaded new software to my 8300HDC box overnight.

Yesterday, my network version was 2.4.4_2 (2007/06/26) ... and this morning it showed 2.4.9_3 (2008/01/24). The download "reset" the Aspect Ratio back to 4:3, and the Output Resolution to 480i ... you can imagine what my picture looked like this morning, not knowing right away that TW had done anything!

I wish TW would be more proactive in letting its customers know to expect changes that they will be making ... and the impact they will have. Apparently the "Eastern NC" TW folks aren't on the same page in this regard as their counterparts in the Triangle area. At least you got notified in advance of upcoming changes.

Yes hang on and I will scan it!

The file is 3 megs so it is too big to store here. Is there a good place to upload a 4 meg file for free?

I haven't followed it recently and will look it up to see what I can find out, but I thought Comcast was partnering up with Tivo to release a DVR solution. I recall the early prospects looked promising and I even stated that this is what Time Warner should have looked at from the get go.

Here is the Comcast Tivo page for your review. (http://www.comcast.com/tivo/)

Looks outstanding and the kicker is that it only costs $2.95 over the standard Comcast DVR price. Who wouldn't pay an extra $3 to upgrade from the cable co guide???? If Time Warner offered this, I wouldn't even be thinking about DirecTV right now! Watch the demos and see what I mean. Plus, it is my understanding that the Tivo Software is OCAP certified and compliant. Thus begs the question: If it is OCAP compatible then couldn't Time Warner offer it?

Be careful what you wish for. The Comcast/Tivo project has been riddled with problems. It was almost 2 years late in field implementation and the results have not been good. Here are a few comments from users:

So i had the comcast-tivo for about a month now.
The installation has been quite difficult, requiring the tech to visit our house twice, for reasons i don't fully understand
The Tivo interface is SLOW, and the sounds (which can be turned off) are a real pain. I don't know how something like this ever cleared any sort of human testing.

After about 2 weeks, the Tivo suddenly one night stopped responding - it initially refused to play back any of its recordings, giving back some obscure error message, and then when i tried to re-start it, it never came back online. The unit was showing a flashing dot, which changed into a solid display of 8888. This would go back and forth. I tried to unplug it, still the same.
Called comcast, and after some initial "tests" (like trying to hook up the unit directly to the AC instead of the power strip i was using), they sent out a tech again.
The Tech came in and immediately went out and got a new box after seeing the display. he said he saw many of those, and they all had to be shipped back to Motorola.
So we lost all of our season pass settings and recordings.

This morning, it happened again, exact same symptoms. I'm not sure if i'm going to keep the Tivo software, since it seems that is is highly unreliable at this point, and just bricks the entire DVR, not letting us watch any TV.

It's sad that i have to choose between the horrible Motorola remote/user interface and the slow and buggy Tivo, But comcast is all the choice we got

I believe the first round of field testing was conducted by Comcast employees. [Fill in your own joke about whether that qualifies as “human testing”.]

I assume there was considerable pressure to get this product released as soon as possible. I also assume that most of the reported bugs are fixable, and future releases will perform well. But, I for one don’t like being a guinea pig, and paying for that dubious privilege.

Channel Info Displaying Wrong Time - Cross posted to www.tivocommunity.com

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For the past two days, the information being displayed in the channel title bar as I move across channels or hit the info buttin is not matching up to what is actually being shown on TV. At the current moment, I am getting channel and program information for programming from 8:30PM LAST NIGHT (2/9/08).

And if I go into the guide, the time frame displayed is correct, but it does not jump to the channel I am currently on.

I had this problem once last week, and after restarting the box lost all of my recordings and scheduled recordings, so I am not going to do a restart here.

The very interesting thing about this, I was having some serious problems last night - had a program scheduled for recording at 9PM, and I was watching something else, the red light came on, everything looked fine. I flipped to the channel that was recording about 9:30, and it looked like the program had just started?? I then checked the guide to see if the program had changed times, and it hadn't... checked the TiVo Recordings, and it showed the program started recording at 9. Started to playback the partially recorded program, and it was fine. It's almost as if when I tuned into that channel, TiVo started PLAYING the recorded portion, instead of giving me live TV. I was finally able to get out of this twilight zone by swapping tuners and using the playback buttons to kick everything back into sync I would guess. Also when this happened all of the channel and program info displayed correctly, but I guess overnight that went back to its messed up state. I tried the tuner swap again today, but now that will not work to get the info bar back to normal.

This is very odd behavior, and I can't tell if it is a messed up box, the TiVO software, or Comcast mucking things up.

Any thoughts??? It is starting to drive me a little crazy... especially last night's adventure, I really thought I was losing it!

Thanks.

pressing the record button while watching a show, doesn't record the show.

am i asking for alot here?

I've had the same problem. i've had other problems. i'm on my second box and its not that much better.

i am going to switch back to the old dvr and get the install and extra fees refunded. it's just not worth the extra money

I had the problem with the guide last night where the info button for a channel would show the wrong time/show. it was 8:30 and it showed the info for 5-6.

I called comcast and they told me to unplug the unit and let it reboot. it never came back. this is the 2nd box that this has happened to.

so i told them to give me the regular DVR back. the lady on the phone said that it would be $15 for an equipment swap. I was not very happy. she ended up waiving the fee after arguing for 10 minutes.

i now have the old dvr and find the guide and controls to be much more responsive than the tivo. i think the hardware is underpowered or software is overly complex for it to work with the motorola box.

so long and thanks for all the fish

Who on earth decided (or maybe failed to notice) that short buzz/error sound that triggers every time you scroll/page(?) - not sure if this is the action that triggers it, since i just turned off all of the tivo sounds because of that.
This product was RUSHED to the market, and it clearly shows. You can find many problems over a few days worth of use. (guide out of sync, no guide data for some channels, programs don't get recorded properly). This box is hot as hell as well
Nice idea there about storing your season passes server side, but i don't see that happening any time in the near future.
And yes, since i (my kids..) use comcast's VOD service, getting the standalone tivo is not a complete solution. Having a cable box and a tivo box is not a good option for me as well. I'll probably stick with the tivo/moto box if this one (3rd so far) survives. If it goes bad again, i'll probably ask comcast to remove the tivo software and go back to their default dvr service.

The concerns from users go on and on and on. These quotes are from the Comcast/Tivo thread in this forum. And are all recent - within the last few weeks.

Yes hang on and I will scan it!

The file is 3 megs so it is too big to store here. Is there a good place to upload a 4 meg file for free?

If you'll PM me, I'll give you my e-mail address ... and you can just attach the file!

I understand what you are saying.However how many Navigator customers have these features now?I'm not sure if ANYONE has these new features yet. I'm just trying to remind people that there is a least clear document from TW showing their intentions. Hopefully, we can cut down on the nonconstructive, inflammatory rants on this thread and concentrate the real issues with Navigator. It really doesn't help those of us who have Navigator and are seeking help or knowledge.

As to your specific example, the Navigator programmers have made a noble attempt to improve the process of recording series that are rebroadcast several times per day or week. If the series in question has an episode name, Navigator does a good job of limiting its recording schedule to unique episodes. It's usually even smart enough to do so in a way that avoids a conflict with other scheduled recordings.

I'm certainly not trying to be a TW apologist. God knows I've had more than my share of problems with this system: lost recordings, boxes that won't boot, freezes, unwatchable channels, rude technicians, etc. I realize that there are many on this thread that don't want to hear that there are some people that actually have Navigator systems that are stable and operating without any serious problems. I've already documented what minor bugs still remain in my system, but they certainly are not things that should strike fear in those anticipating its release.

Here's the way I see it. Navigator is going to get released en masse soon and it's either going to work, or it's not. If the former, no problem. If it's really as bad as many alarmists fear, then TW is going to have to do something drastic. They certainly can't afford to have every single STB causing customer calls and technician visits; and they certainly already know it and wouldn't be releasing it if they didn't feel it was ready.

I believe this thread gives a distorted view of the system (as do most threads of this type). By its nature, it attracts people who are having problems. After all, how many people are going to go to any effort to seek out a place to express their satisfaction with a product. We therefore generally hear from those who have an ax to grind. And that's fine as long as 1) the reader understands this bias and filters the information accordingly, and 2) contributors try to contribute information that is truly useful to others with this system. In other words, if you can't improve on the silence, ...

He is the nice brochure that TWC painstakingly created to tell me that they are about to break my DVR!

http://download.yousendit.com/381E3E61776C8557

So I got a nice color brochure in the mail yesterday(Cary NC). It said that they would be rolling out the Crapigator to all boxes in the near future. It also said that we should expect problems with the DVR after the rollout! It said that there is a chance that it would erase the programs we already have stored and it suggested that we just delete them to be on the safe side!

Who the H$LL comes up with this stuff. They know there will be problems, they are telling us about these problems, and they are still rolling it out anyway. The day it rolls out is the day I call DirectTV!

Does anyone know when the rollout to the older 8300's will happen in the Raleigh NC area?

I just DL the brochure and read it over (thanks for the upload). It does not look to me like the deleted shows is a bug they are intentionally releasing. I think what is happening is some space will be required on your hard drive to DL the new software and install it and if the hard drive is full of TV shows that can't be done, so they will need to delete enough shows to make room for the software download.

I just DL the brochure and read it over (thanks for the upload). It does not look to me like the deleted shows is a bug they are intentionally releasing. I think what is happening is some space will be required on your hard drive to DL the new software and install it and if the hard drive is full of TV shows that can't be done, so they will need to delete enough shows to make room for the software download.

I sure hope you are right! However, how much space can the software take? 250-500 megs? That is a 160 Gig drive! My guess is that you will loose a few shows if it is full even though the software definitely should not occupy that much space.

I guess we will just have to wait and see? Does anyone have a definite date on when they are going to be crapigated in the Raleigh/Cary NC area?

For those with east coast NC twc. Are you able to change the resolution output? I dont think I am able to, or is it better to just leave it as pass through? Also whats the sequence to get the firmware version.
Thanks

Here's the way I see it. Navigator is going to get released en masse soon and it's either going to work, or it's not. If the former, no problem. If it's really as bad as many alarmists fear, then TW is going to have to do something drastic. They certainly can't afford to have every single STB causing customer calls and technician visits; and they certainly already know it and wouldn't be releasing it if they didn't feel it was ready.

Here in Milwaukee,

I feel cautiously optimistic as we had that test run last January-March or so and they aborted it to work out the bugs. Navigator has been released to the non-C boxes here with very little issues. I agree with the above post, with forums like these, and the Internet, TWC would certainly be aware of the risk of thousands of customers not being able to get through on their phone centers, if this was not ready. However, if Navigator clearly is NOT ready for prime time with a national deployment, I have no idea what TWC would do.

Does anyone know how your division is dealing with the rollout? Here in Milwaukee, it is being done AFAIK by box model number with the legacy DVR's to be done last. Sometime in March is being talked about in our division, but nothing has been confirmed or denied.

Jack

He is the nice brochure that TWC painstakingly created to tell me that they are about to break my DVR!

http://download.yousendit.com/381E3E61776C8557

I've now tried 3 times to download your file ... the download speed is incredibly slow at first (about 5kbs) ... and it eventually just quits downloading before it finishes. Any tips?

I've now tried 3 times to download your file ... the download speed is incredibly slow at first (about 5kbs) ... and it eventually just quits downloading before it finishes. Any tips?

Try it from a different computer on a different network. It sounds like your ISP or company is blocking the traffic.

Apparently, TWC is rolling this out to 1 box at a time to prevent MASS problems with everyone's box all at the same time. The pdf I posted says that "If you have more than one box you might not get the crapigator on all of the boxes at the same time". Literally they are going to call you and then update one of your boxes and then I assume they will just wait for the dreaded call. I have a feeling this roll-out is going to take a loooooonnnggg time!

Try it from a different computer on a different network. It sounds like your ISP or company is blocking the traffic.

I finally got it successfully complete the download ... thanks!

TW (RoadRunner) must have been trying to keep me from seeing it ... LOL!!!:D

WX27 and all with external drives and the know issue we are having.

As I posted in a previous message, I wrote to both Scientific Atlanta and Time Warner Cable a letter informing them of the bug in the software with regards to the external drive freezing up the unit.

Today I got a reply back from Time Warner Cable and here is what they said:

Thank you for your recent inquiry to Time Warner Cable.

In reference to your inquiry, the SATA External Hard option is a feature that is neither enabled nor currently supported by Time Warner Cable.

Please refer to our website @ www.twcnyc.com for any future plans, services and news updates.

If you have any further questions please contact us at support@twcnyc.com or call our 24 hour Customer Support Line at 212 or 718-358-0900.

Sincerely,

Time Warner Cable
Customer Support


Ok, we all kinda knew that was what I was going to get back from them. The poor excuse that they don't support it or have it turned on. Whoops, someone should tell them it's turned.

However, even though we didn't get the response that we would have like to get, at least it got read by someone and hopefully it will 'behind closed doors' get looked into and possibly fixed.

Anyone else wish to send them a message, numbers do help in complaints.

Rob

In reference to my Comcast Tivo posts earlier - I understand they have had problems too and that really furthers the belief that its got alot to do with the OCAP standard. I just feel that Comcast is limiting the problems by being very select in its deployment. My main point was based strictly on the demos I saw. The interface is beautiful and the Tivo functions/guide are much better looking than Navigator. I think everyone would agree with those points. So, to be clear I'm saying that if that could be offered as a stable platform to everyone then I think the masses would be all over it.

From Metro Milwaukee-WI here: Preparing for Navigator's roll out to Non-C DVR's.

I wonder if we will get a mailer, an automated call, both or neither? The Answers on Demand channel is gone. For me, I haven't seen more DVR rebooting or anything that much different. I have been watching my saved DVR recordings and getting DVD transfers of what I want to keep.

I know that TWC is going by box model number for the change over, but what about location? I wonder how many boxes or DVR's they are doing at one time?

All of us are waiting for the first report of a non-C DVR with Navigator in this area. Speaking of DVR's, what are the model numbers that they have to do? I only know of the SA 8000 and the SA 8300?

Jack

In reference to my Comcast Tivo posts earlier - I understand they have had problems too and that really furthers the belief that its got alot to do with the OCAP standard.It probably is more related to the CableCARD software and NOT OCAP. There are lots of problems (similar to these) with folks that have SA8300HDCs on SARA systems (which are not OCAP).

It probably is more related to the CableCARD software and NOT OCAP. There are lots of problems (similar to these) with folks that have SA8300HDCs on SARA systems (which are not OCAP).

Probably.

But also make note of reports that simply rebooting the Tivo/Comcast box has also resulted in the loss of all recorded programs on the HDD. Now that would really be a problem as far as I am concerned. Not an OCAP or cablecard issue.

As posted before things seem to be tough all over.

Thanks Dave, I stand corrected. I should have clarified that a little better. I lumped the OCAP/CableCard/Integrated Security into just OCAP. However, there is no doubt that since these "C" boxes hit the market they have caused nothing but problems.

For those with east coast NC twc. Are you able to change the resolution output? I dont think I am able to, or is it better to just leave it as pass through? Also whats the sequence to get the firmware version.
Thanks
With each update, the option to change resolutions when a HDMI cable is connected keeps changing. It's also annoying that the output resolution defaults to 480i for everything after some updates. I can only imagine how many clueless customers have no idea they are not watching HD.

With each update, the option to change resolutions when a HDMI cable is connected keeps changing. It's also annoying that the output resolution defaults to 480i for everything after some updates. I can only imagine how many clueless customers have no idea they are not watching HD.

Amen ... I don't know how many other "eastern NC" TW customers got the same update that I did last night, but if a lot did, then I suspect their customer service number was ringing off the hook today! With the old software, no option to change the resolution with HDMI connected ... now I can choose between 480p, 4801i, 780p and 1080i ... or Auto Select.

BTW ... the issue of playing back a recorded show and not having a chance to decide at the end to SAVE or DELETE the show ... has NOT been corrected with the 2.4.9_3 version. Just watched one ... and the prompt flashed for a fraction of a second, then went back to live TV.

As to your specific example, the Navigator programmers have made a noble attempt to improve the process of recording series that are rebroadcast several times per day or week. If the series in question has an episode name, Navigator does a good job of limiting its recording schedule to unique episodes. It's usually even smart enough to do so in a way that avoids a conflict with other scheduled recordings.

I was actually quite impressed with Navigator's recording just the other day. I needed to record a show and when I tried, I was notified there were already two shows scheduled to record at that time. I had the option of canceling one of the two shows, so I picked one I knew was likely to re-air again later that night (as is typically the case with History Channel). Once I was done, I went back to the guide to record the canceled show and Navigator had already selected to record the show at a later airing. Absolutely awesome.

I've had Navigator for a while now with little to no troubles. Gotta love the fear-mongering some feel they need to do. I mean really, someone who doesn't even have Navigator yet posts a link to a TWC mailing under the name "Crapigator is Forced Upon US.pdf"?

BTW ... the issue of playing back a recorded show and not having a chance to decide at the end to SAVE or DELETE the show ... has NOT been corrected with the 2.4.9_3 version. Just watched one ... and the prompt flashed for a fraction of a second, then went back to live TV.

Seems to be an intermittent type thing. I'd say I get a chance to decide about 9 out of 10 times. The other time I just have to go back into the list and delete it.
Could be worse I guess. It could just go ahead and delete it and not allow you the option to save. ;)

BTW, I'm still at 2.4.5_4 and my box hasn't rebooted in over 10 days according to the log.

In reference to your inquiry, the SATA External Hard option is a feature that is neither enabled nor currently supported by Time Warner Cable.


This is a particularly interesting response after reading the scanned letter for the TWC NC market Navigator upgrade. That letter has the following sentence:
Please note that if you have a third party hard drive connected to your DVR (connected to the SATA port), please make sure it is connected to the DVR at all times so your saved recordings will be transferred to the new guide platform.

Doesn't that imply the opposite--that the external drive feature is enabled and supported, at least in NC? Surely this isn't going to be handled differently for the HDC boxes relative to the non-C legacy boxes...

Doesn't that imply the opposite--that the external drive feature is enabled and supported, at least in NC? Surely this isn't going to be handled differently for the HDC boxes relative to the non-C legacy boxes...Yeah, they seem to be schizophrenic about the external drive. I'm sure if you talk to a CSR, they're going to deny support and not bother to pass it along. When my DVR problems got elevated, the person that worked with me said that the external drive should work. When I informed her that the latest release caused it to quit working after the system entered sleep mode, she said she'd pass it along, but I never heard back. It was this exchange that led me to believe that TW is at least tolerating it. They may get around to fixing the problem, but it's probably lower priority. Maybe if enough people complain, it's priority will rise a little.

Seems to be an intermittent type thing. I'd say I get a chance to decide about 9 out of 10 times. The other time I just have to go back into the list and delete it.
Could be worse I guess. It could just go ahead and delete it and not allow you the option to save. ;)

BTW, I'm still at 2.4.5_4 and my box hasn't rebooted in over 10 days according to the log.

It would appear as though 2.4.5_4 is the most stable release. That's what I have, and I have no serious issues. Of course, that assumes you have a good box (and you may have to try quite a few to achieve that) and that your signal is strong. I dread being upgraded to a higher version, as they all seem to mess up the eSATA thing, and give you nothing important in return.

OpenTV, TWC Freeze Middleware Deal

FEBRUARY 22, 2008

Under a deal announced in July 2006, Time Warner Cable agreed to use OpenTV’s Core 2.0 middleware to ensure that its in-house interactive program guide and navigation system ported properly to older, thin-client Motorola boxes. The vast majority of Time Warner Cable’s systems are based on the Scientific Atlanta /Cisco Systems Inc. (Nasdaq: CSCO - message board) digital platform.

News that the deal is all but finished does not come as a huge surprise. When the deal was announced, Houston was Time Warner Cable’s largest Motorola market. OpenTV’s opportunity all but evaporated there when, under a system swap, Comcast Corp. (Nasdaq: CMCSA, CMCSK) took over the property last June. That left Los Angeles as Time Warner’s largest Motorola pocket, coming by way of the MSO’s acquisition of some former Adelphia Communications systems. (See Adelphia Acquisition Completes.)

After an evaluation, Time Warner Cable and the set-top software specialist agreed that the middleware deal was not economically sustainable. OpenTV expensed $2.2 million related to the Time Warner Cable middleware project in the fourth quarter.

“Given the delays in the schedule for commercial deployment, our projections of the number of legacy set-top boxes in the field at launch has decreased significantly, which has adversely impacted our revenue projections,” OpenTV acting CEO Ben Bennett said during the company’s fourth quarter earnings call with reporters and analysts. “Likewise, the drain on OpenTV and Time Warner resources has been higher than either party anticipated.”

He added that OpenTV and the MSO decided jointly to “put this program on indefinite hold. While we’re disappointed [that] the original goal and economics for this deployment may not be realized, this is absolutely the right decision for the company.”

With that decision made, OpenTV did not include Time Warner Cable-related revenues in its 2008 outlook. Although OpenTV hasn’t enjoyed much success gaining traction for its middleware with U.S. cable operators, its software is in more than 100 million set-tops worldwide. (See OpenTV Touts Milestone.)

Despite the loss of a middleware relationship, Bennett emphasized that OpenTV’s relationship with the MSO “remains strong,” citing possible support for advanced advertising apps and Time Warner Cable’s rollout of tru2way, the new name for the OpenCable Platform. (See Cable's 'tru2way' Play .)

OpenTV already makes some money off of tru2way. It, along with Comcast, LG Electronics Inc. (London: LGLD - message board; Korea: 6657.KS) , Panasonic , Royal Philips Electronics N.V. (NYSE: PHG - message board; Amsterdam: PHI) , Samsung Corp. , and Time Warner Cable, are among the paid licensees for tru2way under a patent pool administered by Via Licensing Corp.. Although the financial breakdown among the patent holders has not been disclosed, set-top and TV makers pay $1.50 per device for the license, and service providers pony up $0.30 per subscriber per year, or $1.50 for a five-year license.

Full Article HERE. (http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=146699&site=cdn)


Hmmmm, was this purely financial or is legacy rollout of Navigator proving to be a beast like the current "C" boxes as well?

OpenTV, TWC Freeze Middleware Deal

FEBRUARY 22, 2008

Under a deal announced in July 2006, Time Warner Cable agreed to use OpenTV’s Core 2.0 middleware to ensure that its in-house interactive program guide and navigation system ported properly to older, thin-client Motorola boxes. The vast majority of Time Warner Cable’s systems are based on the Scientific Atlanta /Cisco Systems Inc. (Nasdaq: CSCO - message board) digital platform.

News that the deal is all but finished does not come as a huge surprise. When the deal was announced, Houston was Time Warner Cable’s largest Motorola market. OpenTV’s opportunity all but evaporated there when, under a system swap, Comcast Corp. (Nasdaq: CMCSA, CMCSK) took over the property last June. That left Los Angeles as Time Warner’s largest Motorola pocket, coming by way of the MSO’s acquisition of some former Adelphia Communications systems. (See Adelphia Acquisition Completes.)

After an evaluation, Time Warner Cable and the set-top software specialist agreed that the middleware deal was not economically sustainable. OpenTV expensed $2.2 million related to the Time Warner Cable middleware project in the fourth quarter.

“Given the delays in the schedule for commercial deployment, our projections of the number of legacy set-top boxes in the field at launch has decreased significantly, which has adversely impacted our revenue projections,” OpenTV acting CEO Ben Bennett said during the company’s fourth quarter earnings call with reporters and analysts. “Likewise, the drain on OpenTV and Time Warner resources has been higher than either party anticipated.”

He added that OpenTV and the MSO decided jointly to “put this program on indefinite hold. While we’re disappointed [that] the original goal and economics for this deployment may not be realized, this is absolutely the right decision for the company.”

With that decision made, OpenTV did not include Time Warner Cable-related revenues in its 2008 outlook. Although OpenTV hasn’t enjoyed much success gaining traction for its middleware with U.S. cable operators, its software is in more than 100 million set-tops worldwide. (See OpenTV Touts Milestone.)

Despite the loss of a middleware relationship, Bennett emphasized that OpenTV’s relationship with the MSO “remains strong,” citing possible support for advanced advertising apps and Time Warner Cable’s rollout of tru2way, the new name for the OpenCable Platform. (See Cable's 'tru2way' Play .)

OpenTV already makes some money off of tru2way. It, along with Comcast, LG Electronics Inc. (London: LGLD - message board; Korea: 6657.KS) , Panasonic , Royal Philips Electronics N.V. (NYSE: PHG - message board; Amsterdam: PHI) , Samsung Corp. , and Time Warner Cable, are among the paid licensees for tru2way under a patent pool administered by Via Licensing Corp.. Although the financial breakdown among the patent holders has not been disclosed, set-top and TV makers pay $1.50 per device for the license, and service providers pony up $0.30 per subscriber per year, or $1.50 for a five-year license.

Full Article HERE. (http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=146699&site=cdn)


Hmmmm, was this purely financial or is legacy rollout of Navigator proving to be a beast like the current "C" boxes as well?

Now this is ONLY for the Motorola boxes, right? I wonder what platform they would use in this case?

Jack

Probably exchange the Motorola boxes for SA boxes, but no one is directly acknowledging the existing battery of problems.

Probably exchange the Motorola boxes for SA boxes, but no one is directly acknowledging the existing battery of problems.

My feelings exactly Ben,

I can recall that there was some early testing (Alpha) with Navigator on the Motorola boxes, and the results were so bad that they didn't even make it out of the labs! The Motorola hardware may just be too different. Unfortunately, this doesn't mean the death of Navigator, it just means most likely as you said, they will just swap out the Motorolla's for SA's/Cisco's at the time when Navigator goes to a specific area.

I agree that TWC really should NOT have given up on the SARA Guide. I read some reports over that the Milwaukee HD TV forum where one guy thought SARA was the worst in performance. He put Navigator second, and Passport first. But in your area, you have had SARA for a long time, and it has been rock-solid stable, right?

Does anybody know how much of the TWC market is SARA based? I heard between 60-65% and was like WOW! That's a lot. Here in Milwaukee WI, we are all SA for new boxes and DVR's.

Jack

BUMP...

Just a reminder that Navigator :eek: is being downloaded in several of TWC's southern California systems.

Desert Cities - February 25 (tonight)
San Diego - February 26 (Tuesday night)

Let's keep an eye on what happens when this happens (and also which version gets applied).

FYI, yes it affects me as well as I'm in the San Diego system.

I've had Navigator for a while now with little to no troubles. Gotta love the fear-mongering some feel they need to do. I mean really, someone who doesn't even have Navigator yet posts a link to a TWC mailing under the name "Crapigator is Forced Upon US.pdf"?

Funny, in the pamphlet they sent me they are actually the ones that suggest that I might loose my recordings. They also didn’t say anything about giving me the option to upgrade or not. I think the title fits it just fine!

I really hope everything goes well. However, there little flyer does not instill any confidence in me!

I read some reports over that the Milwaukee HD TV forum where one guy thought SARA was the worst in performance.Of course that all depends on what criteria that he is using in making those judgments. SARA is BEST at implementing the hardware features of the SA8300 and worst at "TiVo" like features. But in your area, you have had SARA for a long time, and it has been rock-solid stable, right?I am down the Thruway 90 miles from Ben and we all have had SARA for a long time. With the exception of the "C" boxes, it has been rock solid for at least a year. But, like everyone else, there does appear to be problems with the "C" boxes.

Does anybody know how much of the TWC market is SARA based? I heard between 60-65% and was like WOW! That's a lot. That's what I've heard (in some Cable Conferences). But some of that might be if you count systems or customers. I seem to recall that the 65% figure is the % systems that use SARA. But there a few BIG systems (like NYC) on Passport/Navigator that could twist the % customers with SARA the other way.

BUMP...

Just a reminder that Navigator :eek: is being downloaded in several of TWC's southern California systems.

Desert Cities - February 25 (tonight)
San Diego - February 26 (Tuesday night)

Let's keep an eye on what happens when this happens (and also which version gets applied).

FYI, yes it affects me as well as I'm in the San Diego system.

Someone needs to unplug their box at midnight to avoid the update between 2 and 6am when they usually occur. It will be interesting to see if the box can perform on the same system with the "older" software and if plugging the box back in triggers a warning of some kind.

Of course that all depends on what criteria that he is using in making those judgments. SARA is BEST at implementing the hardware features of the SA8300 and worst at "TiVo" like features. I am down the Thruway 90 miles from Ben and we all have had SARA for a long time. With the exception of the "C" boxes, it has been rock solid for at least a year. But, like everyone else, there does appear to be problems with the "C" boxes.

That's what I've heard (in some Cable Conferences). But some of that might be if you count systems or customers. I seem to recall that the 65% figure is the % systems that use SARA. But there a few BIG systems (like NYC) on Passport/Navigator that could twist the % customers with SARA the other way.

I can concur with Dave that the SARA software on my 8300HD has been VERY stable. In the two plus years I've had the DVR it has missed only 2 recordings and both where when I was out of town, so I don't know the circumstances (IE: was the cable out?, the power go out?, etc.) The bottom line is this: The SARA software is not pretty and may not have the bells and whistles that the others do, but it does exactly what it supposed to do and that is be a reliable and functional DVR!

On a side note, I wish TWC would switch over to an all digital system here. I may have to have a trouble call soon because the PQ is really starting to falter on analog (digital/HD looks outstanding) with a ton of noise and grain. I checked my signal levels too and they are fine. I was hoping with the implementation of the SDV this might happen. If a trouble call doesn't help any, I will be more inclined to look at DirecTV even though they just raised their rates ... again!

TW Nebraska customer here in Lincoln. I just had to switch out my 8300HD for and HDC this afternoon as the HD finally crapped out on me. I assume it was something with the hard drive as I could here a clicking noise, the drive trying to spin up repeatedly and then would lose all DVR function. It would work for about an hour after a hard reboot but would eventually go back to not working. I was really regretting it as the HD had finally become fairly stable and I hadn't had any major problems for many months up until a few days ago.

Anyway I got an HDC and its version of Navigator has a few more functions than the HD box version. It is however painfully slower and will take some getting used to. The menu layout is different as well. It's only been a few hours but so far so good, we'll see how it goes.

One thing I do like about the HDC version of navigator is that I can send the DD audio to my receiver via coax while using the HDMI, I couldn't do that on the HD navigator version and it really bothered me, to the point of using component.

I hooked the HDC up via component and the SD channels looked noticeably worse than the HD box I had. I really don't know how that is possible but it is what I saw. HDMI does look a lot better so I can use that for now although my TV doesn't really agree with all the resolution changing. On the old box the difference between component and HDMI wasn't as noticeable except for darkness levels. I could set one resolution and use it via HDMI with the old box, this one no.

You can change the border color on the HDC from black, gray and lighter gray. I couldn't do that on the HD version.

With my old version of navigator I could enter the settings menu and the picture size options were right there on the first screen. I don't have a hot button on the remote I have to change it quickly. Now I have to scroll through a few pages slowly to switch between zoom, stretch and normal.

The interface on the HDC navigator version looks cleaner and a bit more crisp than the HD version. My version now is the 2.4.8.2 that it seems the rest of you one here have.

I haven't gotten into series recordings yet and rarely use them anyway as I would rather scroll through the guide and find programs to record myself. I haven't had a chance to record much on this either so I can't say anything as the difference on that. With the HD version it had been a long while since I had a problem with missed recordings or things like that.

I had to catch up a bit on this topic as I haven't posted in it for a while and got away from reading it. I had been fairly content with Navigator and I had to see what I might have to look forward to again. I think the consensus from people here in Lincoln is that they know the software isn't that great but you eventually get used to it and learn to deal with it. Right now I am kind of enamored with the HDC as it something new to play with and set up. I am sure as soon as I have a problem that will change.

It's funny how software versions vary from region to region. All of the features Dorny said were not available on the 8300HD I have had for over a year on mine that runs SARA. (Dolby Digital, Sidebar color). As far as the HDMI goes, I don't think the switching problem is a software issue, but rather a hardware one. I am forced to use component cables if I want to let the box passthrough the resolution and have my projector scale it. If I use the HDMI on anything other than "fixed" it will randomly lose picture on sync. I have determined this to be due to the HDCP and unless TWC disables it, many will be forced to use component over HDMI.

It's funny how software versions vary from region to region. All of the features Dorny said were not available on the 8300HD I have had for over a year on mine that runs SARA. (Dolby Digital, Sidebar color). As far as the HDMI goes, I don't think the switching problem is a software issue, but rather a hardware one. I am forced to use component cables if I want to let the box passthrough the resolution and have my projector scale it. If I use the HDMI on anything other than "fixed" it will randomly lose picture on sync. I have determined this to be due to the HDCP and unless TWC disables it, many will be forced to use component over HDMI.

You are probably right on the passthrough thing. The HD box version had the option of fixed or variable, I just don't think it did anything. I tried like crazy to get the passthrough to work on that thing when Navigator came out to no avail. It did work with Passport on that same box.

It's funny how software versions vary from region to region. All of the features Dorny said were not available on the 8300HD I have had for over a year on mine that runs SARA. (Dolby Digital, Sidebar color). As far as the HDMI goes, I don't think the switching problem is a software issue, but rather a hardware one. I am forced to use component cables if I want to let the box passthrough the resolution and have my projector scale it. If I use the HDMI on anything other than "fixed" it will randomly lose picture on sync. I have determined this to be due to the HDCP and unless TWC disables it, many will be forced to use component over HDMI.Oh the switching issue (if what you are referring to is loosing sync when changing resolutions) is definitely NOT at SA8300 hardware issue. I have absolutely no problems switching from 480i to 720p to 1080i (or any variation). I have the same SW as you and the same basic box. The difference is the TV and how rapidly it reacts to the change (and perhaps how quickly it communicates with the STB). I have a relatively new Sony KDS-55A3000.

With my old version of navigator I could enter the settings menu and the picture size options were right there on the first screen. I don't have a hot button on the remote I have to change it quickly. Now I have to scroll through a few pages slowly to switch between zoom, stretch and normal.


On my 8300HDC w/ Navigator 2.4.8_2, the # key on the remote toggles through the various aspect ratios.

Oh the switching issue (if what you are referring to is loosing sync when changing resolutions) is definitely NOT at SA8300 hardware issue. I have absolutely no problems switching from 480i to 720p to 1080i (or any variation). I have the same SW as you and the same basic box. The difference is the TV and how rapidly it reacts to the change (and perhaps how quickly it communicates with the STB). I have a relatively new Sony KDS-55A3000.

I have no issues using component, so I'm sure it is an HDCP issue. HDCP is extremely finicky especially when I have it run through an AVR then 25ft out to my projector. Same hookup via component and it switches resolution flawlessly. I can use a fix resolution, but then I have to deal with black bars on SD as well as having the image scaled twice (up to 1080 and then back to the native resolution of the projector. However, I am at least able to use either or setting which some Navigator users have reported issues with.

Can anyone with the Navigator software with the show priority option please let us know how it works?Is it stable and does a good job? SARA 1.89.17.1

BUMP...

Just a reminder that Navigator :eek: is being downloaded in several of TWC's southern California systems.

Desert Cities - February 25 (tonight)
San Diego - February 26 (Tuesday night)

Let's keep an eye on what happens when this happens (and also which version gets applied).

FYI, yes it affects me as well as I'm in the San Diego system.

I turned on my box this morning (7:00 AM PST) and now I have Navigator. :eek:

I didn't have any shows saved but it apparently remembered some but not all of my scheduled programming. Now I'll have to wait and see over the next few days how well it works.

I can't tell what version I have. What's the correct sequence to show the current software version(s)?

With my old version of navigator I could enter the settings menu and the picture size options were right there on the first screen. I don't have a hot button on the remote I have to change it quickly. Now I have to scroll through a few pages slowly to switch between zoom, stretch and normal.


So the # key on the remote doesn't work when hooked up through HDMI? Or are you using a 3rd-party multi-function remote that lacks that feature?

I can't tell what version I have. What's the correct sequence to show the current software version(s)?

On the SA 8300HDC boxes with Navigator, you hold the Select key on the remote for several seconds until an icon appears/flashes on the box--then press the down arrow key on the remote. Not sure if the same thing works on your "upgraded" box ;)

So the # key on the remote doesn't work when hooked up through HDMI? Or are you using a 3rd-party multi-function remote that lacks that feature?

Just through the remote I have through the cable company. HDMI or component, it doesn't matter. There are various remotes out there right now. My buddy has a completely different one than I do, both from the cable company. That short cut button used to work with passport. I was hoping with the new version of Navigator I got with this box it would again.

I've tried 3rd party remotes to and I can't seem to find any button on those that does this either.

They're starting to push MDN and ODN in San Diego--does this thread have a "Hints and Tips" or FAQ post?

They're starting to push MDN and ODN in San Diego--does this thread have a "Hints and Tips" or FAQ post?

Hi Michael,

Nope.. You are right though - a clone of the famous vegggas style post is needed. Like this:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=471859

xnappo

My HDC box rebooted again this morning. Nothing new, however:


I emailed TWC and copied City Hall at 7:10am.
Got a response from City hall at 8:07am and they copied the right people at TWC here.
TWC tech called at 9:23 to setup a swap out to the "old" box, we agreed to meet at my house at 11am. I got there right at 11 and the tech was already there waiting for me.
By 11:10 I had an 8300HD. With Passport.


According to the TWC guys here the reboot problems are caused by the OCAP software and there's a new version being pushed out tonight. Also, I'll get Navigator again when that is pushed out soon.

(Also - I scored a Wii at Walmart today. It's a good day so far.)

Hi Michael,

Nope.. You are right though - a clone of the famous vegggas style post is needed. Like this:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=471859

xnappoThere's a similar post for Passport Echo here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4547722&highlight=guide+tips#post4547722). Just a collection of undocumented or poorly documented features that people have found out about and things that it took a long time to figure out how to do properly.

Oh, well--maybe someday :).

My HDC box rebooted again this morning. Nothing new, however:


I emailed TWC and copied City Hall at 7:10am.
Got a response from City hall at 8:07am and they copied the right people at TWC here.
TWC tech called at 9:23 to setup a swap out to the "old" box, we agreed to meet at my house at 11am. I got there right at 11 and the tech was already there waiting for me.
By 11:10 I had an 8300HD. With Passport.


According to the TWC guys here the reboot problems are caused by the OCAP software and there's a new version being pushed out tonight. Also, I'll get Navigator again when that is pushed out soon.

(Also - I scored a Wii at Walmart today. It's a good day so far.)

I still have my original 8300HD from 2004! I got it 4 days after the Olympics started in 04. TWC can have it back when they pry it from my cold dead fingers!

My HDC box rebooted again this morning. Nothing new, however:


I emailed TWC and copied City Hall at 7:10am.
Got a response from City hall at 8:07am and they copied the right people at TWC here.
TWC tech called at 9:23 to setup a swap out to the "old" box, we agreed to meet at my house at 11am. I got there right at 11 and the tech was already there waiting for me.
By 11:10 I had an 8300HD. With Passport.


According to the TWC guys here the reboot problems are caused by the OCAP software and there's a new version being pushed out tonight. Also, I'll get Navigator again when that is pushed out soon.

(Also - I scored a Wii at Walmart today. It's a good day so far.)

With reagrds to the above,

What can (or has) City Hall done for subscribers in this situation?

Jack

Guys,

Buy the way, here is the TWC San Diego Forum. Follow the first posts on the page about Navigator's rollout in this area:

http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/2/2.html?1204054454

Jack

I wanted to share my experience with my 8300HDC box that uses OCAP/Navigator and the use of the MyDVR Expander by Western Digital. The bottom line is that they are not compatible. MyDVR Expander did work with the 8300HD box but it went bad for other reasons and had to be exchanged for an 8300 HDC. After 4 tech visits to tell me I had a great signal and exchanging 5 OCAP boxes to realize that it was my DVR Expander that was causing the 8300HDC box to suddenly reboot, or somehow block the signal, meaning, I would turn the box on and the power light illuminate, but that was it, not picture, no sound via HDMI or Component. This problem would also occur when I would change a channel, or would just occur out of the blue while watching TV. It wasn't until I unplugged my DVR Expander did the problems evaporate. The interesting part is that each time I would hook up the DVR Expander to a new box, it would recognize it and ask to format it, as if all was okay, but it never was. So, if anyone has had success with using an 8300HDC box in conjunction with a WD MyDVR Expander, I would like to know, otherwise I will draw the conclusion that OCAP has really screwed things up.

I was wondering if you were hooking up a DVR expander when you were having all those problems with your OCAP boxes? I went through 6 8300HDC boxes before I realized that my DVR expander was causing the problem. The "MyDVR Expander" by WD does work with the 8300HD, but not the HDC.

Very frustrating.

-Jamie



I'm on my 5th box and I'm really tired of swapping them out. The current one just rebooted 3 times in a row until I power cycled it. I thought I would be nice and only open 1 new ticket for that despite my pledge to them that I would open one for each reboot. I've submitted 4 tickets this week, no response to any of them.

I had read somewhere about 4 months ago an update was going to happen within 2 weeks, that never happened (for me at least) and I'm on the same version as you.

Charlotte TWC customer here. Just had to switch from DISH yesterday to TWC due to apartment complex regulations. Have the honor of now being in the possession of one of these great Navigator/Mystro "jewels". What's the deal with HDMI? It keeps wanting to go back to the default of 480I. I've tried all kinds of combinations to no avail. I can play with the channels; back and forth, back and forth, until I can finally get an HD channel in something other than 480I. I tried component, and it seems to work better, but the pic quality is not as good. Any advice would be appreciated. Or, should I swap it out for another one and hope for better? Thanks in advance!

42" Philips 1080p LCD
Sony Surround Sound
TWC Navigator/Mystro 2.4.9_3

My HDC box rebooted again this morning. Nothing new, however:


I emailed TWC and copied City Hall at 7:10am.
Got a response from City hall at 8:07am and they copied the right people at TWC here.
TWC tech called at 9:23 to setup a swap out to the "old" box, we agreed to meet at my house at 11am. I got there right at 11 and the tech was already there waiting for me.
By 11:10 I had an 8300HD. With Passport.


According to the TWC guys here the reboot problems are caused by the OCAP software and there's a new version being pushed out tonight. Also, I'll get Navigator again when that is pushed out soon.

(Also - I scored a Wii at Walmart today. It's a good day so far.)



With reagrds to the above,

What can (or has) City Hall done for subscribers in this situation?

Jack

If I remember right, local governments grant the cable companies franchises to operate. I don't think they have the power over the cable companies they used to have, however, they DO have contacts with the cable companies and the cable companies don't really want the city or county calling on behalf of customers.

I got very good service today.

I was wondering if you were hooking up a DVR expander when you were having all those problems with your OCAP boxes? I went through 6 8300HDC boxes before I realized that my DVR expander was causing the problem. The "MyDVR Expander" by WD does work with the 8300HD, but not the HDC.

Very frustrating.

-Jamie

No, pretty vanilla setup. 8300HDC --> Component Cables --> TV.

Jim

I still have my original 8300HD from 2004! I got it 4 days after the Olympics started in 04. TWC can have it back when they pry it from my cold dead fingers!

Bolt the doors! I had a friend who has an 8300HD from about your time frame and was thinking about asking to have his box upgraded. I offered to trade with him and he reconsidered ...

If I remember right, local governments grant the cable companies franchises to operate. I don't think they have the power over the cable companies they used to have, however, they DO have contacts with the cable companies and the cable companies don't really want the city or county calling on behalf of customers.

I got very good service today.

I see that you are in NC. I seem to remember that the NC legislature took over the control of cable from the local governments last year. I could be wrong! Maybe someone else from NC can verify/dispute this.

My HDC box rebooted again this morning. Nothing new, however:


I emailed TWC and copied City Hall at 7:10am.
Got a response from City hall at 8:07am and they copied the right people at TWC here.
TWC tech called at 9:23 to setup a swap out to the "old" box, we agreed to meet at my house at 11am. I got there right at 11 and the tech was already there waiting for me.
By 11:10 I had an 8300HD. With Passport.


According to the TWC guys here the reboot problems are caused by the OCAP software and there's a new version being pushed out tonight. Also, I'll get Navigator again when that is pushed out soon.

(Also - I scored a Wii at Walmart today. It's a good day so far.)

Oh, I had forgotten how much I preferred Passport over Navigator until today. It's a shame TWCNC is upgrading everyone to Navigator starting this Friday.

-- Jim

Oh, well--maybe someday :).

I was trying to nominate you as the OP for such a thread :) I'd consider it myself - but I figure the author should HAVE Navigator.

BTW - you need to tell your buddies over at that forum that holding down the FFWD/RWD button will do the 15 minute skip.

xnappo

I was trying to nominate you as the OP for such a thread :) I'd consider it myself - but I figure the author should HAVE Navigator.

BTW - you need to tell your buddies over at that forum that holding down the FFWD/RWD button will do the 15 minute skip.

xnappo

You're right, it works. I came from Passport (not SARA).

Different problem, if you're viewing a program that you're currently recording (chasing it), if you press the LIVE button, it doesn't go to the point where the recorded program is live, it goes back to the channel you were watching when you started watching the program being recorded.

Anybody know what the current version is for Navigator on 8300HD box (not HDC), coming from Passport?

This is what I saw on one of the diagnostic pages (this is TWC San Diego):
2.4.1_92 (Mt. Huron) Jan 14, 2008 (I'm doing this from memory)

Oh, I had forgotten how much I preferred Passport over Navigator until today. It's a shame TWCNC is upgrading everyone to Navigator starting this Friday.

-- JimI just got the letter today from TWCarolina about the 'upgrade'. If I have a Passport 8300HD, will it convert to Navigator? Anyway to prevent it. I've played with Navigator at friends and don't want it.

Oh, I had forgotten how much I preferred Passport over Navigator until today. It's a shame TWCNC is upgrading everyone to Navigator starting this Friday.

-- Jim

Any word about the dreaded (for us with external drives) "upgrade" to 2.4.8_2 or later?

I just got the letter today from TWCarolina about the 'upgrade'. If I have a Passport 8300HD, will it convert to Navigator? Anyway to prevent it. I've played with Navigator at friends and don't want it.

Unfortunately there is no way to prevent the "upgrade." There is one exception noted below. Note that your current 8300HD DVR will convert to Navigator via software download when your division is ready to do it. Most likely, on the day/night of the conversion, it will be sometime between 2-5 am. However, any time is fair game.

The only saving grace is that an article was recently published that said Time Warner Cable will NOT be deploying Navigator to Motorola boxes. (presumably because of differences within the technology of those boxes.) What that means for divisions with Motorola boxes is that they will probably be swapped out for the current SA and new Cisco boxes, which are scheduled to hit the market later this year. All SA Passport software under TWC jurisdiction will be converted to Navigator probably before the end of the year on a box-model basis. Unplugging the box, during the day/night of the change over won't do any good, because when you plug it back in and connect with the head-end, an upgrade will be sensed by the server and Navigator will download to the boxes. I don't think there is anything else that you can do.

There are some states where the upgrade hasn't happened yet, but that appears to be only a matter of time. A plus is that the legacy boxes (non C) seem to be handling Navigator better than the C-boxes. The new C-boxes, mandated by the FCC as of July 1st 2007, seem to be the crux of the problems regardless of the software used (i.e Navigator, Passport, SARA.)

Jack

...My box takes forever and a day to reboot. The display starts off saying "boot", followed by "ait" (which I guess is supposed to be "wait"), then it reads "L-13" and counts down to "L-12", etc. This process takes at least 5-10 minutes.
...
- Mike
Mike,

Interesting. You're the only person besides me that I've seen mention the "Ait" display. I noticed mine a few weeks ago quit saying OCAP and started saying Ait (still says OCAP on the boot screen, but not on STB).

A few days ago my cable was out and when I talked to the support girl, she said they were supposed to keep a list of anyone calling in who had the Ait display, so at least in my area, it must be something new. Don't I feel lucky...:rolleyes:

Does yours say "esmertec" on the TV screen to the right of the Java logo?

-Marty

mine says ait as well on the ol boot up! I am in green, ohio..(akron division of time warner)

I get the ait, as well, in Cincinnati, OH.

Interesting. You're the only person besides me that I've seen mention the "Ait" display. I noticed mine a few weeks ago quit saying OCAP and started saying Ait (still says OCAP on the boot screen, but not on STB)."Ait" showed up the day 2.4.8_2 was pushed out. Two days after the new release, the tech who came out to replace my STB for an unrelated problem was very confused by the new characters replacing the usual "boot" display. When he called for assistance, they referred to it as the "A slash T" display.

"Ait" showed up the day 2.4.8_2 was pushed out. Two days after the new release, the tech who came out to replace my STB for an unrelated problem was very confused by the new characters replacing the usual "boot" display. When he called for assistance, they referred to it as the "A slash T" display.

I think that an improvement in any upcoming update would be to increase the boot speed of the box! I wonder if test parameters are still in effect for Navigator, which requires the software to go through more "checks" and "balances" during a boot up? Still, over 5 minutes seems like a long time! Can you imagine the number of subs who may be thinking that something is wrong, when they are used to the older guides booting in about 2-3 minutes?

Jack

5 minutes is a long time....and I would suggest you get a new box, mine takes right around 2 1/2 to 3 minutes...and to be honest its about the same now for cable and satellite (not making excuses as this is a advantage that cable had to satellite).

Charlotte TWC customer here. Just had to switch from DISH yesterday to TWC due to apartment complex regulations. Have the honor of now being in the possession of one of these great Navigator/Mystro "jewels". What's the deal with HDMI? It keeps wanting to go back to the default of 480I. I've tried all kinds of combinations to no avail. I can play with the channels; back and forth, back and forth, until I can finally get an HD channel in something other than 480I. I tried component, and it seems to work better, but the pic quality is not as good. Any advice would be appreciated. Or, should I swap it out for another one and hope for better? Thanks in advance!

42" Philips 1080p LCD
Sony Surround Sound
TWC Navigator/Mystro

When I was recently updated from 2.4.whatever to 2.4.9_3., I had to go into the Settings and correct my Aspect Ratio (from 4:3 to 16:9) and my Output Format (from 480i to Auto Select).

Since you didn't indicate what version of the software you're on, I can't say that this is your problem for sure ... but you might at least check those settings on your box!

When I was recently updated from 2.4.whatever to 2.4.9_3., I had to go into the Settings and correct my Aspect Ratio (from 4:3 to 16:9) and my Output Format (from 480i to Auto Select).

Since you didn't indicate what version of the software you're on, I can't say that this is your problem for sure ... but you might at least check those settings on your box!

Thanks. I have done that, but no luck. Sometimes, it changes alright, and then other times it reverts to 480I and I have to play the channel switching game.

Oh, I had forgotten how much I preferred Passport over Navigator until today. It's a shame TWCNC is upgrading everyone to Navigator starting this Friday.

-- Jim

Jim,

Is that a confirmed date from TWC? Is that date state wide or just for Cary? My wife is absolutely going to kill me if we loose the kids recorded shows! There are a few cartoons that were pulled off the air that my kids still love.

Thanks. I have done that, but no luck. Sometimes, it changes alright, and then other times it reverts to 480I and I have to play the channel switching game.

When you go into settings/output format, do you have the option of selecting "Auto Select" (vs. 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i)? With my OLD software version and with HDMI connection, it would give me a message that said I couldn't change the format with HDMI. It would only let me change the format if I made the connection with component cables!

(I see you added your version to your signature ... same as mine.)

Oh, I had forgotten how much I preferred Passport over Navigator until today. It's a shame TWCNC is upgrading everyone to Navigator starting this Friday.

-- Jim

Thankfully not us NC folk with SARA-Thankfully. SARA 189.17.1

Any word about the dreaded (for us with external drives) "upgrade" to 2.4.8_2 or later?

I forgot to ask because I was so excited I was getting the old, stable box.

Part of my frustration has been that back to October I kept hearing that upgrades were imminent and I was being patient that maybe the update would solve the problem. Maybe we'll get the 2.4.9_x update that I've seen others (San Diego?) get.

Has anyone noticed an update to the OCAP software on their boxes?

I just got the letter today from TWCarolina about the 'upgrade'. If I have a Passport 8300HD, will it convert to Navigator? Anyway to prevent it. I've played with Navigator at friends and don't want it.

Short term - unplug your box when you go to bed.

Long term - learn to like it ... :)

Jim,

Is that a confirmed date from TWC? Is that date state wide or just for Cary? My wife is absolutely going to kill me if we loose the kids recorded shows! There are a few cartoons that were pulled off the air that my kids still love.

I think it's just the Triangle scheduled for this week.

I'm new to the forum and I just got my DVR about a month ago. I tried to do a scan of this thread but trying to go over 115 pages is hard.

Anyhow!!!

I have a SA8300HDC - TW Navigator 2.4.8_2. When I try to record two shows they both have black screens. The list shows them as recording but after the show ends it no longer shows them.

It does this about half of the time. Tonight I lost two shows that I really wanted. It doesn't do this all of the time but enough that it really pi$$es me off.

Anyone have any ideas on this?

Still having trouble recording 2 shows at once on the SA8300HDC with Navigator 2.4.8_2. TW came out today and the tech just scratched head. Called his support and they didn't have a clue.

On the recording log the shows that didn't record say, "Not recorded due to an unresolved recording conflict (4)" or "The set-top was unable to record this program (7)"

All they could say is to swap out the box and see if it keeps happening. I asked about the (4) and the (7) at the end of each message and no one knew what it meant. They said that they will research the issue.

Anyone out there have any ideas.

I think it's just the Triangle scheduled for this week.

Here's hoping the overlooked neighbor of Chapel Hill is just outside of their evil grasp.

Either way I'm pulling the plug on my boxes over the weekend nights just to see what happens.

When you go into settings/output format, do you have the option of selecting "Auto Select" (vs. 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i)? With my OLD software version and with HDMI connection, it would give me a message that said I couldn't change the format with HDMI. It would only let me change the format if I made the connection with component cables!

(I see you added your version to your signature ... same as mine.)

Yes. I selected Auto initially. Since then I have gone back and selected, deselected, selected, deselected, etc. I'm beginning to think the receiver defaults back to 480I, then when the TV doesn't decipher the HDMI protocol quick enough for the receiver's liking it stays at 480I. You can actually see the receive go to the appropriate output for a second then go back to 480I. I can eventually get the correct ouput by switching back and forth between 2 HD channels. Really frustrating. Wonder if I would be inviting more trouble by swapping out the box?

Short term - unplug your box when you go to bed.

Long term - learn to like it ... :)Very short term. They can set things up to require the upgrade for the box to be used on the network and probably eventually will. They're implementing SDV tuning in Navigator but not in Passport, so they'll start adding channels which you can't access without the "upgrade".

Part of my frustration has been that back to October I kept hearing that upgrades were imminent and I was being patient that maybe the update would solve the problem. Maybe we'll get the 2.4.9_x update that I've seen others (San Diego?) get.

Has anyone noticed an update to the OCAP software on their boxes?

As of yesterday, I still had 2.4.5_4 on my 8300HDC.

5 minutes is a long time....and I would suggest you get a new box, mine takes right around 2 1/2 to 3 minutes...and to be honest its about the same now for cable and satellite (not making excuses as this is a advantage that cable had to satellite).


Well I still have Passport on my 8300DVR. (A 2-3 minute boot time like yours.) But before the end of March is the planned rollout for us to get Navigator on the DVR's. No formal date announced yet. Everyone says that the Navigator software takes longer to boot. We shall see!

Jack

Mike,

Interesting. You're the only person besides me that I've seen mention the "Ait" display. I noticed mine a few weeks ago quit saying OCAP and started saying Ait (still says OCAP on the boot screen, but not on STB).

A few days ago my cable was out and when I talked to the support girl, she said they were supposed to keep a list of anyone calling in who had the Ait display, so at least in my area, it must be something new. Don't I feel lucky...:rolleyes:

Does yours say "esmertec" on the TV screen to the right of the Java logo?

-Marty

Marty,

It seems that everyone who is experiencing the "Ait" display is running version 2.4.8_2, so I suspect you may have been recently updated. I suppose there is no way to really draw a "W" on the 8300 series display.

I am going to check next time I reboot whether it reads "esmertec"... I would try it now, but being it takes a million years to boot up I'm going to leave that for another night.

- Mike

Could someone verify where they're getting the version number (i.e., 2.4.8_2) they're mentioning in various replies? Is it because it's from the newer SA8300HDC box?

I'm on Navigator on (coming from Passport - TWC-San Diego switched over during the early morning hours of February 26) and the closest thing I've seen to that number was the RES: line which had 2.4.1-92 on it when I went into the diagnostic pages (found on page 14 of 28).

Note: I have a 4+ year-old SA8300HD box so I know I got the Mystro version. Anybody else here got the Mystro Navigator? What version do you have?

Could someone verify where they're getting the version number (i.e., 2.4.8_2) they're mentioning in various replies? Is it because it's from the newer SA8300HDC box?

I'm on Navigator on (coming from Passport - TWC-San Diego switched over during the early morning hours of February 26) and the closest thing I've seen to that number was the RES: line which had 2.4.1-92 on it when I went into the diagnostic pages (found on page 14 of 28).

Note: I have a 4+ year-old SA8300HD box so I know I got the Mystro version. Anybody else here got the Mystro Navigator? What version do you have?

Here's what I get on page 1 when I go into the software diagnostics:

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii286/bankerjohn/8300HDCimageIII.jpg

Is that what you're asking about?

Note: I have a 4+ year-old SA8300HD box so I know I got the Mystro version. Anybody else here got the Mystro Navigator? What version do you have?


Finally! We have been waiting to get some input from someone who has had Navigator deployed to an older SA8300HD box. This can help confirm if it is in fact the integrated security that is causing all the issues with the software. Please let us know how it is working for you.

PS: You most likely will have a different version of Navigator because you don't have a "C" box.

Here's what I get on page 1 when I go into the software diagnostics:

Is that what you're asking about?

Note that there are TWO sets of diags for Navigator. The first poster is referring to the more details diags, and this post to the simple diags.

Someone who knows - please explain how to enter both modes. Then we either need to get Jacksonian to update the first post with such info if he is still around, or start a 'Setup and Review Guide' thread with someone willing to be a long-term owner.

xnappo

Note that there are TWO sets of diags for Navigator. The first poster is referring to the more details diags, and this post to the simple diags.

Someone who knows - please explain how to enter both modes. Then we either need to get Jacksonian to update the first post with such info if he is still around, or start a 'Setup and Review Guide' thread with someone willing to be a long-term owner.

xnappo

Here's page 7 (of 16) from the hardware diagnostics ...

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii286/bankerjohn/8300HDCimageIV.jpg

Is that info of any value?

On the recording log the shows that didn't record say, "Not recorded due to an unresolved recording conflict (4)" or "The set-top was unable to record this program (7)"

All they could say is to swap out the box and see if it keeps happening. I asked about the (4) and the (7) at the end of each message and no one knew what it meant. They said that they will research the issue.

Anyone out there have any ideas.

(4) occurs if you have three programs that are scheduled to record in the same slot. As far as my experiences with 2.4.8_2 have gone, if I have two programs in a slot and I attempt to schedule a third, it will detect the conflict and ask me which one to keep scheduled/which one to skip. But if this happens with a series recording that ends up in a conflict in the future (after the initial scheduling of the shows), then you won't get a proactive warning of a 3-way conflict and the box will skip recording the series that is lowest priority/set up earliest of the set. You can go through the scheduled recordings list by date and check for future conflicts and resolve them to your liking. It would be a nice feature if the box would alert you proactively when it encounters a scheduling conflict for a future series recording, perhaps a dialog when you turn on the box.

Not sure about the (7) issue. Might have had insufficient cable signal strength at the time or something.

Here's page 7 (of 16) from the hardware diagnostics ...

Is that info of any value?

Your first post was fine. That is what most people are using to refer to the version. What sequence are you using to get into this diag mode(the 9-page version)?

I *think* this is the sequence for the 28 page version(from the San Diego forum):

- With box powered on, on box front panel, press guide button and release, then press guide button and hold down while also pressing SEL button and hold both down until the mailbox indicator lights up.

- Release both buttons.

- Press guide button and release and the diagnostic text screen appears.

The A,B,C buttons can shift the displayed channel background to a smaller window or back to full screen.

The diagnostic text screens (read only) can be moved thru using the <> arrow buttons and exit of diagnostic mode can be done by pressing EXIT on the remote or front panel, then the mailbox indicator light will go out.

You would have to go thru the button sequence from the beginning to enter diag mode again.

xnappo

Note that there are TWO sets of diags for Navigator. The first poster is referring to the more details diags, and this post to the simple diags.

Someone who knows - please explain how to enter both modes. Then we either need to get Jacksonian to update the first post with such info if he is still around, or start a 'Setup and Review Guide' thread with someone willing to be a long-term owner.

xnappo

Diagnostics set one:
On the DVR, press vol + and vol - at the same time until the mail icon shows up, then press ch +.

Diagnostics set two:
On the DVR, hold the Select button down until the mail icon shows up, then press the down key on your remote control.

What sequence are you using to get into this diag mode(the 9-page version)?

xnappo

Software Diagnostics (9 pages):
On the remote, hold Select until the mail icon flashes and then press the down arrow.

Hardware Diagnostics (16 pages):
On the STB, hold both the Vol+ and Vol- buttons until the mail icon flashes, then press Ch+.

There may be other methods ... this is just what I used!

Question? On the non dvr Navigator boxes is there any type of search engine available on it. SARA 1.89.17.1

Diagnostics set one:
On the DVR, press vol + and vol - at the same time until the mail icon shows up, then press ch +.

Diagnostics set two:
On the DVR, hold the Select button down until the mail icon shows up, then press the down key on your remote control.

I came home to try the methods mentioned....

The first one may work for those on Navigator who came from SARA, but doesn't work for those coming from Passport.

The second one works fine, except you don't have to press them on the box itself, the same button presses on the remote work the same (this is different from Passport where the buttons on the box had to be pressed).

Again, this may only apply to the Mystro Navigator.

I came home to try the methods mentioned....

The first one may work for those on Navigator who came from SARA, but doesn't work for those coming from Passport.

The second one works fine, except you don't have to press them on the box itself, the same button presses on the remote work the same (this is different from Passport where the buttons on the box had to be pressed).

Again, this may only apply to the Mystro Navigator.

Did you try the method I posted? There haven't been any TWC divisions to go SARA->Navigator yet BTW.

xnappo

Did you try the method I posted? There haven't been any TWC divisions to go SARA->Navigator yet BTW.

xnappo

Yes, I did (using the Guide and Select buttons directly on the DVR). I found using the Select and down arrow button method on the remote is easier.

Either way, I get to the same set of 28 pages of diagnostics.

Since you mentioned no SARA-to-Navigator conversions yet, my guess is that the diagnostics pages for OCAP Navigator (going to 8300HDC boxes) differ from the diagnostics pages for Mystro Navigator (going to 8300HD boxes).

I'm sure someone will post screen caps of both to this forum sooner or later.

I got another reboot under Mystro tonight (I also had one on Tuesday). I think I know the problem. I was watching a program that was recorded in HD (Jericho from Tuesday), while another one (Lost on Thursday) was recording.

Remember I have the 8300HD. Apparently, the software current version has a bug when trying to handle two streams (one recorded, one live) when both are HD.

I hope the bug gets killed. Noticed also that if I try to turn on the DVR while the Mystro is still initializing (has the message on my TV screen - but the DVR box LEDs have changed from '----' to showing the time) , I get the 'box is not authorized' message. If I wait a minute or two longer, it rights itself, turns on the box and picks up where I left off.

Very weird, and very annoying.

Since you mentioned no SARA-to-Navigator conversions yet, my guess is that the diagnostics pages for OCAP Navigator (going to 8300HDC boxes) differ from the diagnostics pages for Mystro Navigator (going to 8300HD boxes).



That sounds right.

Thanks,
xnappo

Something is confusing me... follow along:

We know about the HD and the HDC SA boxes, that the HDC has a larger RAM footprint. It also seems like TW has 2 different "versions," one that can work as designed to the HDC and one that supposedly can operate in much smaller RAM footprint boxes like the HD.

It seems one version is being tagged ODN and the other MDN. Further we have posts calling one "Mystro" and the other "OCAP."

Which seems to imply that the version for HDC boxes is OCAP capable and the one for HD boxes not capable of doing OCAP. Mkes no sense to call one version "OCAP" unless the other version doesn't do OCAP.

Somehow I can not imagine in any scenario they would put new software out there that does NOT do OCAP.

Could it be they are loading the older HD boxes with a non-OCAP solution, assuming it IS non-OCAP capable?

Does anyone KNOW what the real story is?

I strongly doubt that TWC bought any HDC boxes without the extra memory for running an OCAP environment. If they did, it was an unintended mistake.

The older, "legacy", 64MB boxes cannot run OCAP and I don't think that 64MB HDC boxes can run OCAP and Navigator, so there's no sense in TWC buying them (the spec-sheets for the HDC boxes strongly suggest 128MB memory for OCAP). The low-memory, legacy boxes have to run the Mystro version of Navigator because they don't have the memory in which to run the OCAP environment. OCAP may also (probably does) require that the box be a CableCARD host, which the legacy boxes are not.

Time Warner is keeping these legacy boxes out in the field because it would cost them many tens of millions of dollars to replace them nationwide. When customers want to subscribe to something which requires OCAP, they can come out and install a new box.

This is the real story, so far as anyone of us can know it from outside TWC. Would I lie to you are tell you something was true that I hadn't gotten from an official source?

My 8300HDC boots as Mystro, so I'm not sure I follow the OCAP/Mystro box difference.

My 8300HDC boots as Mystro, so I'm not sure I follow the OCAP/Mystro box difference.Interesting. Could be a mistake, or maybe they did buy some 64MB HDC boxes, for whatever reason. Can you say how much memory is reported in diags by your box?

Question? On the non dvr Navigator boxes is there any type of search engine available on it. SARA 1.89.17.1

Yes, albeit a very limited one: only by name, and only from the beginning; it has a keyboard, ans as you type, the list is updated to start with the letters you typed. You can stop typing at any time and go to the currently diplayed list and scroll up and down. There is no way to type the middle of the show's name, let alone actor's name or anything in the description. It is very fast, though (it better be, being that limited).
You can also restrict by categories, like HD, or Movies, and subcategories (say, Drama, or Comedy), so you can get a list that consist of, for example, only Movies/Comedies or only High Definition Movies, that are much smaller lists to scroll through, and that may speed up your search a lot (or sometimes you may want to scroll through the whole such restricted list, if it is not too long).

Short term - unplug your box when you go to bed.

Long term - learn to like it ... :)

Checking in, haven't posted here in long time.

Still having problems: audio goes in/out, hangs/freezes, it seems to consistently be ignoring whether show is new or rerun. I'm getting every show, every time whether I want it or not. Unplugging/reboot fixes audio and sync problems but not the recording/rerun.

So, I've learned to "Live with" but not "Like" it.

@@#*&^$*@#^

TW Cable. New York City. SA8300HDC.

My box was changing channels spontaneously for no reason. Tried to reboot (several times). Won't count down past 13. TWC service is, of course, no help.

Will exchange the box again on Monday (3rd time).

The web site: consumerist . com is conducting its annual survey for the worst company in the US. I voted for Time Warner, but it looks like Comcast is going to win by a landslide.

Well I seemed to have a problem this afternoon with the box not recording shows. I was watching TV when it told me I had two recordings about to start. So I switched to one of the channels to be recorded. Later I noticed neither show recorded. I then set it to record the hockey game this evening, but when I got home, my wife said the record never started. She then tried just pressing the record button manually and it *still* wouldn't record. What the heck?!?

Anyway, I decided it must just be time to reboot the box (it been about 3 weeks since the last reboot). It appears to be recording a show now that I had scheduled. Being a Java programmer I'm more than willing to blame Esmertec and their Java VM for leaking resources and grinding the box's performance into the dirt. ;)

My 8300HDC shows some other weird behavior. I set the power-on channel to some other channel than the 14 setting it had previously. That seems to work fine for awhile, then at some point when you turn it on it ignores that setting and powers on to channel 2. The correct setting is still there in the menus, though.

With a reboot, it starts paying attention to the setting again--for awhile...

TW New York City. SA8300HDC. Navigator.

Periodically, the box starts changing channels; or the guide lights up and the box indexes through listings and stops at one; or the volume goes up and down (volume white band moves left - right but is not actually functioning on these boxes).

This seems more likely to happen when playing back a recorded program (especially toward the end of the recording) but can happen any time.

It is as if somebody is pushing buttons on the box or on a remote control pointed at the box (no, it isn't my remote and it can't be coming form outside the apartment).

The process usually stops by itself after a few minutes. However, sometimes, turning the box off and back on will immediately stop it. Sometimes a reboot will fix things for a few days.

Could it be a glitch in the box? Or some sort of transmission issue from TW? Or am I actually getting a remote control signal through the walls or wires?

The box is going back because of this issue (and because it took an hour to reboot last night) but I'm curious to know if this is a unique or a common issue.

Thank you.

Interesting. Could be a mistake, or maybe they did buy some 64MB HDC boxes, for whatever reason. Can you say how much memory is reported in diags by your box?

My 8300HDC has:
128MB System Memory
32MB Video Memory

The boot process for my box starts with the OCAP/Esmertec screen, then moves into the Mystro countdown screen.

Wow, this is just more justification for the new TWC rate hike! I don't know about anyone else, but here we are slated for a 5% increase starting April 1st due to increased costs and as the TWC rep put it "new and exciting services".

Look at this way, with Navigator you don't need to go to the Casino because it's gamble if it's ever going to work for you.

My 8300HDC shows some other weird behavior. I set the power-on channel to some other channel than the 14 setting it had previously. That seems to work fine for awhile, then at some point when you turn it on it ignores that setting and powers on to channel 2. The correct setting is still there in the menus, though.

With a reboot, it starts paying attention to the setting again--for awhile...

I would see that when my HDC would do it's spontaneous reboot thing - waking up to channel 2 is how I would know it rebooted on it's own. If I had shut it down or rebooted it then it would power up to my last channel.

I posted this in my local San Diego forum, but I want to see if this is happening in other areas...

I have older SA8300HD, now running Mystro, version is 2.4.1-92, dated Jan 14, 2008.

I have a series recording for Battlestar Galactica on Universal HD, channel 724, for Saturday at 5:00 PM. It didn't record it this past Saturday. I set up a manual recording of the show for the 9:30 PM run. It also didn't record.

The program is showing up in the guide. The recording log states that it "could not find the program" for the 5:00 PM recording and "the set-top could not record the program" for the 9:30 PM recording.

There are no conflicts, and box only had one recording on it, with the box marked 7% full.

I'm wondering if Universal HD is on SDV and Navigator can't record SDV channels (this worked fine in Passport 2.6.002). Is there a way to see if the "Copy Never" flag is set?

Please check on this and let me know!!

Wow, this is just more justification for the new TWC rate hike! I don't know about anyone else, but here we are slated for a 5% increase starting April 1st due to increased costs and as the TWC rep put it "new and exciting services".

Look at this way, with Navigator you don't need to go to the Casino because it's gamble if it's ever going to work for you.

Ben,

I hope along with you that Navigator isn't a part of the "new and exciting services!" But it still seems that the non-C boxes are doing better than the C-boxes. Any indications if it's not Navigator what you are getting? Are they adding more channels in your area?

I still have the hypothetical question, and I am sure Ben that you have been researching this for a long time. Let's say that Navigator is testing in a TWC division that actually cares about its customers. (Yea, right I know, I'm in Fantasy Land hahaha!) But let's just say that if this were true, and in their tests of Navigator they couldn't get it to work with a cable system such as Passport in my area on the DVR's or SARA in your area on DVR's. What do you think they would or should do in this case?

The other thing that we need to find out is, when are licensing and rental agreements up for TWC Passport and SARA renewal, at which point everyone on TWC goes to Navigator? I wish we had a date for that, it would help everyone plan for the rollout as best they can.

Jack

I still have the hypothetical question, and I am sure Ben that you have been researching this for a long time. Let's say that Navigator is testing in a TWC division that actually cares about its customers. (Yea, right I know, I'm in Fantasy Land hahaha!) But let's just say that if this were true, and in their tests of Navigator they couldn't get it to work with a cable system such as Passport in my area on the DVR's or SARA in your area on DVR's. What do you think they would or should do in this case?Whether they care or not, it'll boil down to a business decision. They can't afford to have the support division swamped with custormer whose STBs no longer work. That's why I don't believe they'd be releasing it if they didn't think it would work.


The other thing that we need to find out is, when are licensing and rental agreements up for TWC Passport and SARA renewal, at which point everyone on TWC goes to Navigator? I wish we had a date for that, it would help everyone plan for the rollout as best they can.There's pretty strong indications from many regions that the rollout is eminent. Some already are starting to see the transition. I got a pamphlet this week saying it will be "soon".

My 8300HDC has:
128MB System Memory
32MB Video Memory

The boot process for my box starts with the OCAP/Esmertec screen, then moves into the Mystro countdown screen.I think that if it boots OCAP, you're running the OCAP version, whether the bootstrap mentions Mystro at some point or not--that was the original product's codename. Doesn't it clearly say what version you're running somewhere in the diag screens?

Back in this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13246496&postcount=3552) post, someone shows one of the diag screens that has a line "ODN Version". Does that screen say "ODN" on your box? I think that if it were running the original C-language Mystro, it'd probably say "MDN Version" instead, though I don't have a unit to look at to make sure. It seems probable that they'll push MDN to the legacy 8300HD in my house next week--when they do, I'll check.

I'm wondering if Universal HD is on SDV and Navigator can't record SDV channels (this worked fine in Passport 2.6.002). Is there a way to see if the "Copy Never" flag is set?

Don't know about the SDV aspect (I don't even think it's active here yet) and I've not heard of any "Copy Never" flag (where do I find that?). However, I had the no recording problem yesterday. I haven't bothered to check the log, but we couldn't even record manually by pressing the record button. I just unplugged the box, waited a couple of minutes and plugged it back in. After that, recording started to work again.

One "bonus" though is that I noticed two cases where shows (for which we have a series recording set up) that didn't get recorded actually were (re)scheduled to record at a later date/time.

ETA: Went back to check the log. In the case of a hockey game I tried to record, first there was entry indicating the channel was not available. After that, there were several entries saying it was not recorded due to an unresolved recording conflict. These later entries apparently occurred when my wife tried to manually record the game. Each of the other shows that failed to record all said the same thing - "channel is not available". So the big question is what causes the box to get into a state where it thinks the channel is unavailable (because in at least one case, I was actually watching the show live when it failed to record - in other words, the channel was most certainly "available").

Went back to check the log. In the case of a hockey game I tried to record, first there was entry indicating the channel was not available. After that, there were several entries saying it was not recorded due to an unresolved recording conflict. These later entries apparently occurred when my wife tried to manually record the game. Each of the other shows that failed to record all said the same thing - "channel is not available". So the big question is what causes the box to get into a state where it thinks the channel is unavailable (because in at least one case, I was actually watching the show live when it failed to record - in other words, the channel was most certainly "available").It might help if you put your release number in your signiture. The "not available" problem has been discussed several times here. However, that was mostly when people reported having 2.4.5_4. Since 2.4.8_2 started coming out, I don't know if I've seen any reports.

I used to get the problem frequently and (by superstition) seemed to avoid it by weekly reboots. I no longer have the problem but can't say whether it's because of the new release, a new STB, or the replacement of the coax going to the STB. Whatever, my last reboot was more than 3 weeks ago.

I posted this in my local San Diego forum, but I want to see if this is happening in other areas...

I have older SA8300HD, now running Mystro, version is 2.4.1-92, dated Jan 14, 2008.

I have a series recording for Battlestar Galactica on Universal HD, channel 724, for Saturday at 5:00 PM. It didn't record it this past Saturday. I set up a manual recording of the show for the 9:30 PM run. It also didn't record.

The program is showing up in the guide. The recording log states that it "could not find the program" for the 5:00 PM recording and "the set-top could not record the program" for the 9:30 PM recording.

There are no conflicts, and box only had one recording on it, with the box marked 7% full.

I'm wondering if Universal HD is on SDV and Navigator can't record SDV channels (this worked fine in Passport 2.6.002). Is there a way to see if the "Copy Never" flag is set?

Please check on this and let me know!!
For TWC-SD, SDV test channels were found as additional listings in Search results.

Only CH1201-1221 are new SDV (aka SDB) test channels and are not (yet)
listed in the Guide. I verified simultaneous recording two SDVs.

I just verified that Univ-HD is still on it's usual QAM freq....not SDB/SDV....yet...
[You should check for your local neighborhood node...]

I don't see any Firewire copy flags, probably cuz my "older" SA8300HD
(Mar2005) is running Mystro/Navigator, but isn't populated with Firewire plugs.

My "newer" SA8300HD (Aug2005) has (flaky) Firewire and external eSATA drive,
but has (thankfully) not yet been Navigatored...

And so far, no change to SA3250HD (Firewire source to D-VHS).

=========================
BTW: In Diagnostic Display Menus, "Switched Digital Broadcast" (Pg 21 of 28)
lists the (current??? last??? why only one???) SDB frequency.

Pg1 and Pg2 seem to display "tuner1" and "tuner2" info, but aren't labeled.
So far, I see SDB freq on Pg1 and normal channel freqs on Pg2
(which changes to 0 MHz/error when tuned to an SDB channel).
[If I play with it some more, I'll probably see a tuner 1/2 swap...]

=========================
To enter Diagnostic Menu on the R/C, we hold down SELECT button
until see "MAIL" icon on front panel, then press DOWN ARROW key.
EXIT key will quit diagnostic display.

Alternatively, at front panel press GUIDE button, THEN hold BOTH
GUIDE and SELECT buttons until see "MAIL" icon and THEN press GUIDE.

Happy hunting....

It might help if you put your release number in your signiture. The "not available" problem has been discussed several times here. However, that was mostly when people reported having 2.4.5_4. Since 2.4.8_2 started coming out, I don't know if I've seen any reports.

I used to get the problem frequently and (by superstition) seemed to avoid it by weekly reboots. I no longer have the problem but can't say whether it's because of the new release, a new STB, or the replacement of the coax going to the STB. Whatever, my last reboot was more than 3 weeks ago.

Yeah, I'm still on 2.4.5_4. Glad to hear it's better in the later versions. I think I've heard we're scheduled to be upgraded soon. Prior to pulling the plug to "resolve" this, my box hadn't rebooted in about 3 weeks.

Those with 2.4.5_4 (or 2.4.8_2 or whatver), are you running an 8300HDC box?

I'm trying to see what versions are being deployed for those of us with the older 8300HD box.

I think that if it boots OCAP, you're running the OCAP version, whether the bootstrap mentions Mystro at some point or not--that was the original product's codename. Doesn't it clearly say what version you're running somewhere in the diag screens?

Back in this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13246496&postcount=3552) post, someone shows one of the diag screens that has a line "ODN Version". Does that screen say "ODN" on your box? I think that if it were running the original C-language Mystro, it'd probably say "MDN Version" instead, though I don't have a unit to look at to make sure. It seems probable that they'll push MDN to the legacy 8300HD in my house next week--when they do, I'll check.

No doubt I'm running the OCAP version on my HDC. I just think there was some confusion a few posts back about OCAP vs. Mystro. As you said above, I think Mystro is Navigator, and that you have Mystro if you have Navigator. So, to me, the presence of Mystro boot screens doesn't imply anything about OCAP vs. non-OCAP (unless the version of Mystro for legacy non-OCAP 8300HD's displays no such boot screen).

My box does say ODN on that line you mention, although we are still on 2.4.5_4 in Raleigh for my 8300HDC. I posted the memory sizing info from my box just to support your notion that the 8300HDC has 128MB (at least in my case). Not sure if gstelmack ever got a chance to check his box...

The low-memory, legacy boxes have to run the Mystro version of Navigator because they don't have the memory in which to run the OCAP environment. OCAP may also (probably does) require that the box be a CableCARD host, which the legacy boxes are not.


Perhaps you meant to say the MDN version of Navigator instead of the Mystro version of Navigator in this post?

Perhaps you meant to say the MDN version of Navigator instead of the Mystro version of Navigator in this post?Ah--so we're arguing BS semantics :rolleyes:. I thought that you were saying that you thought that your HDC was running the non-OCAP version of Navigator, which, if true, would have seemed like an oddity and possibly a mistake by your cable provider.

In the press and internally, TWC refers to the two versions as "Mystro Digital Navigator" and "OCAP Digital Navigator" (aka, "MDN" and "ODN"); after all, they (and we) have to call them something different to distinguish between them. I suspect that the "MDN" monicker existed first and they just replaced "Mystro" with "OCAP" in their designation for the OCAP version when they started the port. It doesn't matter that the project which produced the two distinct sets of code has the umbrella name "Mystro", they are called "ODN" and "MDN" now, and only one of those acronyms makes direct reference to "Mystro".

To wit, I just googled "mystro-digital-navigator ocap-digital-navigator" to find pages which mention both and found a job description (http://www.timewarner.com/corp/careers/jobtools_us/search_jobdetail.html?partnerid=391&siteid=36&AReq=92226BR&Codes=NDEM) at TWC's corporate site for a Program Engineering Manager with the passage:Hiring in five Specific Areas:
1.Electronic Program Guides - Mystro Digital Navigator, OCAP Digital NavigatorMDN is written in C and runs on the same RTOS and middleware that Passport Echo does (which is probably much the same stuff as used by SARA); ODN is MDN rewritten in Java to run in the OCAP environment. Other OCAP apps can run with ODN, but there is no OCAP enivironment on boxes running MDN (no memory for that on the legacy SA STBs). ODN can also (theoretically at least :)) be downloaded into and run by any OCAP-compliant device, like the new <tru2way> televisions and STBs headed for market this year; it has been demonstrated at product shows running on prototype OCAP-compliant televisions from Samsung.

Yep, understanding the history certainly helps explain the naming distinction and clarifies earlier posts for me. Those who may not be familiar with that history (like me until a few min ago :)) could easily get a different impression from watching their ODN boxes boot through a Mystro screen and think that they have what you and TWC call "Mystro" (i.e., MDN), when in fact they do not. Sadly, it seems folks are getting way more experience watching these boot screens than they should!

Too bad TWC can't natively compile the ODN version and get some kind of performance boost on the 8300HDC. Man, it is sluggish! Maybe the 8500HDC series will bring some relief in that department...

For TWC-SD, Diagnostic Menus for my Navigatored SA8300HD says MDN.
On boot, it first displays "PowerTV" and then "Mystro"....no mention of OCAP.

"Software Versions" (Pg14 of 28):
PTV: v.6.14.89.1sp 30Oct2007
DFLT: vnot not found. not found
RES: 2.4.1-92-ptv (Mt. Huron) 14Jan2008
DAM: 0.9e 14Jan2008
PE: 3.9d30 (MDN 2.4.1) 26Sep2007
HOST: 1.37 MDN 2.4 14Jan2008
MTRA: Not Available

We can also tune to CH998 to see a one page "Settop Status":
"Atlas 2.4.1-92-ptv (Mt. Huron) 14Jan2008"
[Atlas???? Perhaps it means compatible with Atlas Remote Controls?]
[Mt. Huron???? Sounds like a program codeword....]

Clearly there are several layers of software:
"PTV" must be "PowerTV" version....[compare to Passport below.]
I'll guess "RES" is Navigator IPG (cuz it's only version listed in SETTOP STATUS).
"PE" is probably PowerKEY (encryption) version...which works with (MDN).
So "HOST" would be the MDN middleware version...

"MDN" appears twice....
No where does either "ODN" or "OCAP appear in menus.

========================================
For comparison, SA8300HD version numbers for my other
(still Passport Echo) HD-DVR:

Versions:
ResApp Version: PASSPORT Echo 2.6.002
OS Version: PowerTV 6.14.74.1sp
ResApp Date: Dec 21 2006, 01:21:14
OS Date: May 17 2006, 8:02:24 PM
PowerKey: PKEY_3.9.3.2-p +dvrs3
PowerKey Date: 15:00:34 May 8 2006

Versions2:
Name: OS (6.14.74.1sp)
Rel: OS, Home Server Edition 1.8
Name: HAL Driver (Drv_1.0.60.1)
Rel: 8300-Prd:HAL Driver+OS:6.14.74.1sp
Name: PHAL3 Driver (PHAL_3.5.14.1002)
Rel: 8300:PHAL3 Driver+OS:6.14.73.1sp
Name: PowerKEY LIB (PKEY_3.9.3.2)
Rel: e8kg3-mrdvr-p:PowerKEY LIB+OS:6.14.73.1sp
Name: firebus (8KG3_Dual_prod)
Name: fbddtcp (8KG3_Dual_prod)
Name: Passport Echo (2.6.002)
Rel: Passport Echo 2.6.002+OS:6.14.74.1sp

Chan. App:
URL: ...mon/apps/venue/venue.pas
App Name: venue
Version: 2.0 Build 011
Company: Pioneer Digital
Author: Pioneer Digital
App API ver: 48
Passport API ver: 73

Settop Status:
Passport Version: PASSPORT Echo 2.6.002

I just got off phone with TWC executive. He said they understood the software problems on these new boxes. He pledged that the revenue captured from the 5% rate hike was being diverted solely to pay for additional programmers and QA teams. They'll work 24 hour shifts to resolve the bugs on the platform and bullet proof the Navigator application.

He also said that the Easter Bunny will be bringing me a new and improved cable box with pink icing.

5%

@(*#$@*#^*&@#$!!!!!!!!!!!

I just got off phone with TWC executive. He said they understood the software problems on these new boxes. He pledged that the revenue captured from the 5% rate hike was being diverted solely to pay for additional programmers and QA teams.

If only they had started work on this earlier, like maybe 4 or 5 years ago, and had managed to get a few billion in profit last year that they could have used.

It's such a pity it's so brand spanking new that they only had a year to work on it and barely scraped in any income from being the second largest cable operator in the country. :rolleyes:

If only they had started work on this earlier, like maybe 4 or 5 years ago, and had managed to get a few billion in profit last year that they could have used.

It's such a pity it's so brand spanking new that they only had a year to work on it and barely scraped in any income from being the second largest cable operator in the country. :rolleyes:

Yes indeed,

You would just expect better from the second largest cable company in the country.

Jack

On the subject of planned rebooting:
-Does it have to be a power-off type reboot or will the 3 key salute work as well?
-If 3 key reboot is sufficient, has anyone tried to program a macro into a remote for it?
-Or does it have to be done from the box?

I've looked into digital timers but can't find anything that fits my needs (I'm plugged into a BrickWall brand surge protector). Wondering if I can just build a macro and put the button on my remote.

Its like they've reinvented Windows 95, same great stability.

...and everyone realizes I was being sarcastic about the Executive conversation right?...except for part about the Easter Bunny.

For TWC-SD, Diagnostic Menus for my Navigatored SA8300HD says MDN.
On boot, it first displays "PowerTV" and then "Mystro"....no mention of OCAP.


And, to contrast, my 8300HDC with Navigator (ODN) first displays a PowerTV/Esmertec/Java/OCAP/Cisco-SA splash screen during boot (lots of logos on one screen), followed by a Mystro screen.


"MDN" appears twice....
No where does either "ODN" or "OCAP appear in menus.


This sounds consistent with michaeltscott's comments: MDN for the legacy 8300HD's.

I just checked my 8300HDC Navigator box for the first time in a couple of weeks - really, I know, I either need to return it or get back to working out more often - and when I turned on the TV, there was a message saying bad cable card and that it needed to be removed and reinserted. The box did not respond to remote or front-buttons, so I unplugged for a reboot. I got the new "AIT" message initially during reboot, then it went thru the usual L-# sequences.

I checked the DVR List, and the box pretty much stopped recording shows last Thursday. In the log, all the shows since Thursday (2/28) had a message that the program could not be recorded at that time (no reason, but there was a '7' at the end of the message). The box is software using version 2.4.8.2 from 11/27/07. The hard drive indicates 91% full.

I'll check on it again in a few days.

Well, they finally updated two of my boxes. Both of them non-DVR. I have to say it's a huge improvement over the previous software we had. At least I can search by name now. And it's actually faster to use.

I'll hold off further judgment until they do my 8300HD... I wonder how long until they will wait to do that box. I wrote down all of my shows in case the programming gets nuked.

Well, thats good to hear. However, the bulk of Navigator problems are related to DVR functionality, so I'm really interested to get feedback on how it performs on the SA8300HD boxes!

Hey, at least it's working on the standard boxes, I guess that's a step in the right direction.

My brother just got Navigator on his non-C DVR in Milwaukee. He hates the slowness and awkwardness of the new guide. He didn't mention if his recordings survived or not, but did say it was slow and awkward to use. He thinks that being able to scan up to two weeks out is dumb because he doesn't program his TV viewing that far in advance. Like almost everyone here, he finds Passport much easier to use.

Jack

Oh yea, and this is important, he said he GOT NO WARNING OF THE CHANGE OVER AT ALL! (Or at least anything that he saw.)

He thinks that being able to scan up to two weeks out is dumb because he doesn't program his TV viewing that far in advance.I only get one week of scheduling. I have often wished I had two weeks because I wanted to set up a recording of a sports event when I knew I would be out of town. It may not be something he needs, but hardly "dumb". Besides, what does it hurt?

It seems probable that they'll push MDN to the legacy 8300HD in my house next week--when they do, I'll check.

Oh boy, then you'll be able to actually confirm all my fears<g>!

Seriously, might you expect to quickly swap that box or a 128MB HDC? A before and after would be VERY interesting... right now I'm sitting on pins and needles wondering if they will or won't even bother to let us know when they will cripple our Passport "HD" boxes...

My brother just got Navigator on his non-C DVR in Milwaukee. He hates the slowness and awkwardness of the new guide. He didn't mention if his recordings survived or not, but did say it was slow and awkward to use. He thinks that being able to scan up to two weeks out is dumb because he doesn't program his TV viewing that far in advance. Like almost everyone here, he finds Passport much easier to use.

Jack

Oh yea, and this is important, he said he GOT NO WARNING OF THE CHANGE OVER AT ALL! (Or at least anything that he saw.)

Jack, did his already recorded shows survive the conversion? I DO see a LOT of confirms that HD boxes are getting this new... I hesitate to even name/call it! My expectation is they don't give 2 flying fraks about us as customers, so I expect no announcement at all, and many posts about all previous recordings getting nuked.

Jack, did his already recorded shows survive the conversion? I DO see a LOT of confirms that HD boxes are getting this new... I hesitate to even name/call it! My expectation is they don't give 2 flying fraks about us as customers, so I expect no announcement at all, and many posts about all previous recordings getting nuked.

Well,

He said that nothing got erased and that all of his scheduled recordings are still there! I don't know how many he has and whether or not they will play back ok. But he said all his shows are still listed. What I am hearing from other sources is that individual records seem to be having a better survival rate than stuff that is part of a series. This I am sure could also be related to the confusion in series recording how Navigator defines "New" content.

What everyone is saying is that if you really, really want to make sure that a series does record and you have other shows as part of a series listed and you set that series to record like 5 days ago, delete that series that you set 5 days ago and than set it to record again. Because the most recent shows that you set to record have highest priority. Also check the Recording List often to make sure your shows are scheduled to record. I understand that if you choose "Sort By Date" that you will be able to see your most recent recordings at the top. But AFAIK, you can't prioritize this list like you could in Passport by moving individual recordings to the top of the list that you want to keep for a longer period of time.

Jack

Here in San Diego, no one has reported the loss of any recordings, though some recordings have gotten cryptic new names. Series Recording entries where there are no instances of the show in the future guide have been lost.

I don't know why you'd ask to exchange your old 8300HD with an HDC box; I'd fully expect ODN to have a larger number of bugs, since it's newer and has had far less time in the field with fewer people banging on it.

Here in San Diego, no one has reported the loss of any recordings, though some recordings have gotten cryptic new names. Series Recording entries where there are no instances of the show in the future guide have been lost.

I don't know why you'd ask to exchange your old 8300HD with an HDC box; I'd fully expect ODN to have a larger number of bugs, since it's newer and has had far less time in the field with fewer people banging on it.

FWIW, my reasoning is mostly because I think TWC hasn't the first clue about developing software and have nobody doing the kind of job they should be doing in managing the process. Look at all the issues with external drives... I think it's 100% the fact their "programmer" just doesn't know how to address more than one volume, something as basic as that.

Besides, anecdotally it seems there are far more HDCs than HDs running it. It's only been in the past week or so that I'm seeing posts coming from folks running it on HD boxes.

So how can I expect that they will be able to function correctly with half the RAM space? If they have as much trouble as they clearly DO have fitting into 128 MBs, I have zero confidence it's not going to be a bug-fest of epic proportions cramming such functionality into half that.

FWIW, my reasoning is mostly because I think TWC hasn't the first clue about developing software and have nobody doing the kind of job they should be doing in managing the process. Look at all the issues with external drives... I think it's 100% the fact their "programmer" just doesn't know how to address more than one volume, something as basic as that.You speak of TWC as though it's a person, with a fixed and limited range of talents--it's a corporation, which can buy talent when it needs it. When a corporation needs to develop competency in a new area, like software development, it will take a while and there will be miss-steps along the way, but certainly they can get there with determination and the will to toss money at the problem :). When they launched the beta tests of Navigator it was a sheer disaster and, though it has taken a while, from what I hear the version that they're rolling out nationwide is in a lot better shape than the 1.5.xxx version of Passport Echo that I first used on the SA8000HD a few years back. It took a while for Passport to shape up as well.
Besides, anecdotally it seems there are far more HDCs than HDs running it. It's only been in the past week or so that I'm seeing posts coming from folks running it on HD boxes.I don't know what anectdotes you've been listening to but I don't think that that's true, except in specific areas where they haven't started truly rolling Navigator out yet. TWC has probably hundreds of thousands of non-"C" boxes out in the field; they've been distributing them for the past 3 or 4 years; they only started distributing the "C" ones late last summer, when the FCC forced them to stop buying new boxes that didn't use CableCARDs or some other approved form of separable security.

Markets where they haven't truly started converting to Navigator are the ones which Navigator is only running on "C" boxes. Here in San Diego, AFAIK, every "C" box distributed has come with Navigator installed. They started pushing it to the legacy boxes last week, and I'm sure that when that process is done, legacy boxes running Navigator will far outnumber the "C" boxes.
So how can I expect that they will be able to function correctly with half the RAM space?<Heavy sigh> :rolleyes:. That is such a freakin' ignorant question, born of the ridiculous American "Super-Size Me", everything-bigger-has-to-be-better philosophy. More memory will help only if more memory can help, and we have no idea whether more memory would help this problem. The latest versions of Passport Echo have significantly more functionality than Navigator has revealed so far and they run fine in 64MB--why do you think that Navigator would benefit from more?

"Mystro Digital Navigator" (MDN), the original C-code version of this IPG, was designed to run in the 64MB environment and was developed in it. "OCAP Digital Navigator" (ODN), a port of MDN to the OCAP Java profile, needs more memory. I'll bet that the Java code that its written in compiles to consume at least 25% more memory, line-for-line; it requires the OCAP Java profile to run, which almost certainly includes a ton of functionality not used by Navigator, which some arbitrary future OCAP applications might choose to utilize. I'd guess that the OCAP/Java execution environment alone consumes a huge chunk of the additional memory. Though it might need more than 64MB, it's very possible that it doesn't need nearly 128MB, which is an arbitrary amount offered by S-A as an option on the C boxes. It's probable that there's plenty of unused memory there (which, again, might be used by some future OCAP applications).
If they have as much trouble as they clearly DO have fitting into 128 MBs, I have zero confidence it's not going to be a bug-fest of epic proportions cramming such functionality into half that.Exactly how is it "clear" to you that they're having trouble "fitting" this into 128MB? I've been a software engineer for 30 years and that's not clear to me at all. Bug ridden code running in 5 times as much memory as it needs is bug ridden code and adding more memory isn't going to fix it.

Your assumption that memory will help is like saying that you expect a fat guy to perform better than a skinny one because his clothes are bigger. The fat guy wears bigger clothing because he needs it, and the skinny guy would definitely not benefit from wearing oversized gear.

In the end, the version of Navigator that's running on the legacy boxes has been out in the field on far more STBs and was out there for several months before the debut of ODN. Because of that, I'd be willing to bet real money that there are fewer and less serious bugs left in MDN than in ODN. Of course, I could be wrong :).

Your assumption that memory will help is like saying that you expect a fat guy to perform better than the skinny one because his clothes are bigger. The fat guy wears bigger clothese because he needs them, and the skinny guy would definitely not benefit from wearing oversized gear.Michael, wonderful post (absolutely wonderful). I particularly enjoyed this last part. Very appropriate.:)

Hey guys, I'd back off of the guy complaining about lack of memory. As a software developer who's also a consumer who's been struggling with Navigator from day 1, I can tell you he is very right to be concerned. Most of the problems I've observed are consistent with memory leaks in the Navigator application. When you reboot the box and all the problems vanish for period of time, that certainly points to sloppy coding and/or bugs. Java has always been notorious for poor "garbage collection" meaning it doesn't free up memory and allocated resources properly.

So putting a poor performing application on a box with half the memory, could, in theory, increase the frequency of problem occurrence accordingly.

To put in terms you guys like: "The skinny guy puts on weight quickly, so bigger clothes allows him to gain weight without anyone noticing right away."

My box is crap, I only get about 5 days before problems start since last reboot. If I halved the memory, I'd fully expect that to drop to 2.5 days.

Get it?

PS: Michael, with your 30 years of software development experience, I'm sure you'll understand that scenario. Not disagreeing with you completely, if these problems are functional design issues, then more memory won't help....but that's not what I'm seeing on my box.

Dude, you do not treat memory leaks by adding memory to the application, nor do you add memory so that it can weather memory leaks for longer periods of time. If you know that a memory leak exists, you track it down and eliminate it. (I've worked on some systems where heap allocation is elaborately instrumented to help track such things down as quickly as possible. Having more memory so that it takes longer for a memory leak to cause a crash is actually not such a good thing, debugging wise). In my experience, memory leaks are primarily due to the "misspelling" type of coding error--failure to cross Ts and dot Is; it's not the sort of thing likely to survive re-coding in a different language. A memory leak in ODN is probably unique to ODN and vice-versa.

Your point about Java having notoriously bad garbage collection is nullified by the fact that the boxes running with half the memory are running a version of Navigator written in C. At best, you've cited another reason why ODN needs more memory than MDN :).

This software is big and relatively complex and fairly new and there are going to be bugs, which we're all going to have to live with until they can weed them out (or switch to satellite :D). That's just life in the big city.

That's just life in the big city.

And,,,The little one>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lincoln Ne.

HH

Mike
Don't put words in my mouth. I never said you should treat memory leaks by adding more memory.

Plain fact is that a memory leak will show up quicker given less memory. Do you want to argue that?

As for dotting those "i"s and crossing those "t"s, you'll have to excuse me for not having faith that TWC will get it right...they've had what, 3 years? If it were that simple, they'd be fixed. Frankly my platform has gotten more unstable the past 3 months, not better.

Dude.

PS- You CAN add (and some companies do) more memory to lengthen time between reboots...or you can reboot more often. Which is what everyone's been doing...