another missing feature that I remember is that you can no longer get the time to display on the front of the box. Like say you wanted the channel displayed on the front of the box at all times, but then turn off the box and use it like a clock, the time will not show up even though the old passport and sara still has this. I'm not sure if other people are experiencing it, all I can say is to try it out via the display settings.

I recall here in Milwaukee for Navigator that there is a Show Time of Day, Always in the Display settings. The default (who knows if they changed it?) is to show the channel number when surfing. But you can have the clock on when channel changing. I don't know if the clock still shows when the box is off or not. Coffee, in the example you gave, how would power to a box or DVR be indicated in an off position?

Jack

I didn't know that. I checked mine and it was updated @ 0227 this morning. I wonder what this is supposed to fix?

I'm in the SW Ohio market as well, and got the same update. I've just had this box (8300HDC) for a week or so, and I'm having a little trouble trying to synthesize some of the information I've found here.

Michael Scott said on 3/28 that the current version of ODN is 2.4.9_3, which is what we've been upgraded to in SW Ohio. However, I'm still not seeing any of the features from the Nebraska site (http://www.timewarnercable.com/Nebraska/products/cable/mdn/Enhancements.html) such as series recording priority and air time controls. Does anyone know what version those screens are from (a beta, maybe) or when they'll be rolled out to the rest of us? Does anyone on this thread actually have them?

Phil

If you look in the URL itself you'll get a clue. It contains the folder "mdn". SA8300HD uses MDN. SA8300HDC uses ODN... From other posts I have read, they are two completely different software packages that they are trying to keep in sync... and apparently the features of the two codebases are not in sync. For example, "show and series prioritization" (a feature I desperately could use on my ODN box) is only available if you have an SA8300HD with the MDN software.

What I find interesting is the TWC Nebraska website doesn't show any way to select information that would correspond to the ODN software. Does this imply that TWC doesn't have any ODN boxes in Nebraska? Seems unlikely... but you never know.

If you look in the URL itself you'll get a clue. It contains the folder "mdn".

Nuts, you're right. And since they still seem to be having so many problems just getting the boxes to work, I wonder how long it will be before they focus on integrating some of these ease of use features. Based on what I've read in this thread, it looks like the recent ODN releases have contained bug fixes only, not new features in the UI.

Phil

Here's the missing intro to Rick Lee's long trouble report list:

If any of you want to help, please add more items. In a few days, I'll find the
most relevant address to email it to TWC. Does anyone know it?


From experience, they won't care. I did something similar, wrote up a long list detailing things that need to be addressed before they push this out any further, wasn't attacking them at all in any way in the letter. Sent it to the division CEO and regional executive VP for my region, and got nothing more than a "thank you, but we're going to ignore you" letter in response from someone in corporate communications.

From experience, they won't care. I did something similar, wrote up a long list detailing things that need to be addressed before they push this out any further, wasn't attacking them at all in any way in the letter. Sent it to the division CEO and regional executive VP for my region, and got nothing more than a "thank you, but we're going to ignore you" letter in response from someone in corporate communications.Typical TWC attitude!!

Typical TWC attitude!!

Absolutely. Also helped solidify my decision. We got notification by mail a few weeks back that existing boxes in our area would be "upgraded" to Naviigator soon. The day my 8300HD gets that downgrade pushed to it is the day I call DTV and schedule an install.

I recall here in Milwaukee for Navigator that there is a Show Time of Day, Always in the Display settings. The default (who knows if they changed it?) is to show the channel number when surfing. But you can have the clock on when channel changing. I don't know if the clock still shows when the box is off or not. Coffee, in the example you gave, how would power to a box or DVR be indicated in an off position?

Jack

:) when the green circle with the dash going through it is not lit (dvr's) or the green button under the power button is not lit.

Recently posted to the TWC "Eastern Carolina" site. (What happened to the Raleigh/Durham/Fayetteville moniker?")


The transition to the new Navigator on-screen guide will take three months to complete, therefore if you have multiple cable boxes in your home, you may not see the new guide appear on all boxes at the same time.

We will send you information in the mail about the new on-screen guide up to 4 weeks before the upgrade occurs on your box(es). If we have your email address in our system, you will receive an email one week before the upgrade is scheduled to occur. Also, we will give you a courtesy call the day before you are scheduled to receive the new on-screen guide for each box in your home. You are not required to be at home during the time the software upgrade takes place.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/easterncarolina/products/cable/Navigator/navigator.html

However, since Navigator Guide only uses 4:3 center section, it leaves
frozen images in the two sidebars if you are watching an HD channel, thereby
defeating the purpose of the screen saver. [His item #1.]


Passport does something similar: if watching HD, the output is changed to SD with the grey sidebars and the small picture moves around, but only within the 4x3 section

Passport does something similar: if watching HD, the output is changed to SD with the grey sidebars and the small picture moves around, but only within the 4x3 section

I thought Navigator was suppose to fix this or was it a hardware limitation? I heard the 8550 model will have a consistent display.

I have the non-C version of the SA 8300 Box with the recent Navigator upgrade. I am in the Palm Springs, CA area. In the DVR list sometimes there is a triangle with an exclamation point inside of iton the left margin of a recorded show. I take it for an info icon. There is plenty of space available on the HDD (only 37% full). It seems to come and go. Does anyone know what it signifies? I am trying to avoid a call to TW as the rep probably won't know.

I have the non-C version of the SA 8300 Box with the recent Navigator upgrade. I am in the Palm Springs, CA area. In the DVR list sometimes there is a triangle with an exclamation point inside of iton the left margin of a recorded show. I take it for an info icon. There is plenty of space available on the HDD (only 37% full). It seems to come and go. Does anyone know what it signifies? I am trying to avoid a call to TW as the rep probably won't know.

From Nebraska Navigator Enhancements
As shown in the image above the ! in the red triangle indicates shows that are pending deletion. If there is a show or shows that you wish to keep for longer periods of time, you may set them as “Do Not Delete”.

I thought Navigator was suppose to fix this or was it a hardware limitation? I heard the 8550 model will have a consistent display.

It's a hardware limitation of the boxes prior to 8550.

Here in Raleigh/Durham we have MOJO which is a subscription channel. However they will occasionally use it for FSN HD. At times, you can see what's on the channel in the side bars while the "Call to Subscribe" message is in the 4:3 portion of the screen.

One night we were supposed to get the hockey game. I could see it was being broadcast in the sidebars, yet I was getting blocked with the subscription message. Still took until the 2nd period of the game to explain the problem to the phone bots and have it fixed (though they insisted it was fine and I could watch it in SD just fine on another channel).

I need help big time! We just got an 8300HDC as a second DVR and all it will display is Ait on the front. My wife took a day off to catch up on her shows and the stupid cable box won't turn on. Is there anything I can do? Can this be fixed without a visit from TWC?

Please help. I am not going to pay $18 a month for a box that works for 4 days and then dies!

Oh yea, I forgot to tell you what I have tried. I pulled the power plug out of the box and waited atleast 10 minutes. I did that 3 times last night. It has been displaying "Ait" all night.

PPS: Other than (still) being fussy re-recognizing the drive, I haven't seen
ANY problems re external eSATA HDD....and Passport's FF/RW bug is gone...
[Something to add to the very short list of improvements!!!!]



So he is running Mystro/Atlas 2.4.1-92-ptv (Mt. Huron). Is the most recent HD version? Can someone list:

1. What HDC (OCN) versions work with eSATA and break eSATA
2. What HD (MDN) version work with eSATA and break eSATA

Thanks,
xnappo

I need help big time! We just got an 8300HDC as a second DVR and all it will display is Ait on the front. My wife took a day off to catch up on her shows and the stupid cable box won't turn on. Is there anything I can do? Can this be fixed without a visit from TWC?

Please help. I am not going to pay $18 a month for a box that works for 4 days and then dies!

Oh yea, I forgot to tell you what I have tried. I pulled the power plug out of the box and waited atleast 10 minutes. I did that 3 times last night. It has been displaying "Ait" all night.There's no way to know for sure why it can't boot. When mine wouldn't boot it turned out to be a flakey coax going to the box so it couldn't get a good signal. Hope it's something that simple so you don't lose your recordings.

Navigator/MyStro (can't TWC pick a name?) was only installed on my Pioneer non-DVR digital box. It is slow as molasses. Should I get a newer non-dvr box to get better GUI speed?

Also, is there a way to turn off the LED?

TIA,
Danno

So he is running Mystro/Atlas 2.4.1-92-ptv (Mt. Huron). Is the most recent HD version? Can someone list:

1. What HDC (OCN) versions work with eSATA and break eSATA
2. What HD (MDN) version work with eSATA and break eSATA

Thanks,
xnappo

1. From personal experience: eSATA works fine with 2.4.5_4; with 2.4.9_3 it is broken (i.e. works only with the "keep the box busy all the time" workaround). Never had 2.4.8_2, but from what I read, it behaves like 2.4.9_3 in that regard.

2. Don't know, but I don't remember anybody complaining about it not working in any version. It is fairly recently (or not yet) downloaded for most people, though, so it is too early to tell.

When I view the program guide or the DVR recording list, the currently viewed TV program no longer shrinks up into the corner of the display. It just continues to play in the background, at full-size, with the text image superimposed in front of it.

This just started a couple days ago. My software versions show no update, still 2482.

Yesterday I was trying to record a show and it would not do it. In the cable guide it showed as set for recording and when I hit the Info button the description showed the REC indicator, but the recording indicator was not lit on the STB and the recording did not occur. No relevant messages appear in the recording log.

Today it seems to be recording normally again. No reboot has occurred in between.

In the diagnostic screen, I see 12 OOM errors counted. This is a new "feature". Previously I believe the only error count I got was Pod=1, IIRC.

This thing is weird.

-Marty

How do I do a soft reboot with an 8300HDC again? I tried volume up, volume down, and guide all at the same time. That didn't do anything.

Monday at 5PM my box rebooted. Because it was at exactly 5, I think it was due to a signal from the office (as opposed to the spontaneous reboots that some people report).

After it came back up, as I watched, it had the yellow bar (when you hit Info) for the currently-viewed program but if I paused or rewound, the video was missing as if it hadn't been recorded. I tried changing to different channels but the problem persisted. I tried power off/on as well. Another reboot was required to restore the missing functionality.

It was a surprise to me that it started off bad right after the 5 o'clock reboot. I would expect things to start off good right after a reboot.

-Marty

p.s. I should have pointed out that sometimes when the DVR screws up it doesn't have the yellow bar at all for the currently-viewed channel, neither sound nor video are recorded and pause/rewind do not function at all.

I just got off the phone with a TW person in Wilmington, NC to whom I complained (again) that, after some period of inactivity, the 8300HDC box stops recording the currently-watched channel. She went and asked a "techie" about this, and his answer involved a reference to a "screen saver" that the firmware employs. I do remember seeing something similar to a screen saver in the past ... if I paused a recorded program that I was playing, and then went off and forgot about it ... when I came back into the room, I had to "press a key to resume" (or something similar).

So here's what I asked her (to which she didn't have any answers!):


If the problem with not being able to pause or rewind a currently-watched program is due to a "screen saver" kicking in (rather than the hard drive "going to sleep), presumably after some specific number of minutes ... why can't I see the screen saver when I come back after 2 hours and try to pause the show?

Why isn't there an option on my Settings to either disable the screen saver, or at least increase the time until it kicks in?

I didn't ask TW to "please protect my TV from screen burn-in by kicking in a screen saver" ... especially since my TV is an LCD which is pretty much immune from burn-in! She said she would forward my complaint on up the pipeline, but I'm not holding my breath on how much good it will do. I also told her that I'm NOT the only TW subscriber with the same complaint!

Mine also goes to a screen saver if I pause it for a long time on either live or recorded programming (at least it did last I knew - you never know from day tot day what the behavior of this software will be) and you must "press a key to continue". I like it this way because min is a projection TV and it is not good for it to display a static image or region.

Anyway, regarding the problems with the currently-watched channel, in my case this can have nothing to do with a screen saver because there is no inactivity. The TV show is moving right along and I hit pause and the show keeps on trucking. As you saw in my prior post that you quoted, I get some variations in this behavior, such as the yellow bar, presence/absence of video/audio, but in any case it is a malfunction.

This software just seems buggy as hell given the number of people using it and the length of time it has been in circulation. However, it is difficult to judge it objectively from the vantage point of the consumer. I have no idea how much code we are talking about, how many variations in hardware and environment that it must be coded to handle, how large a team is involved in developing and maintaining it, etc. As a programmer, I know that people/customers have no appreciation for how many things worked *right*. On the other hand, should we have to? From the vantage point of the consumer, all I know is I hit the Pause button and it doesn't always pause.

-Marty

So far,

On the Wisconsin rollout, the biggest concerns are that the guide moves too slowly. The overall response remains negative for Wisconsin users:

http://blogs.jsonline.com/cuprisin/archive/2008/04/04/time-warner-s-navigator-your-thoughts.aspx

Jack

I was surprised to see one guy in that blog, drezdn, say the program search works a little better compared to Passport.

I preferred the search in Passport because you didn't have to search on the first word of the title. If I knew the title of a movie was something about "football", for example, I could still search for it.

-Marty

The guide search seems faster in MDN than in Passport (I haven't tried a guide search in ODN). It also matches VOD and PPV programming, which is think is pretty cool. I don't remember the guide search in Passport matching any word in the title; I don't see how that would work and incremental title search works exactly the same way in TiVo as in MDN (of course, TiVo has a very powerful multi-term search engine as well as simple incremental title search). Passport Echo did have keyword search, which Navigator lacks; likely any movie with "football" in the title would have "football" as a keyword. They should add that to Navigator.

... Passport Echo did have keyword search, which Navigator lacks; likely any movie with "football" in the title would have "football" as a keyword. They should add that to Navigator.

You got it. That's what I'm talking about. Sounds like you may be making a distinction between "guide search" and "incremental title search"? Sorry I'm not up on all the exact semantics - I just remember as I would hit each letter, Passport would eliminate all entries which no longer contained a match somewhere in the name. Finally it would be down to one or a few titles in the list.

-Marty

Our area got a new channel lineup recently. I don't particularly see the benefit but I'm sure I'll get used to it.

What I AM curious about is what is the reason for it? Of course TWC's customer propaganda tells how it is easier to understand and, basically, that it's "to serve me better". Yeah, right. "New & improved", etc. Companies that really wanted to serve their customers better were put out of business or assimilated by these modern monopolistic scum bag behemoths long ago.

As it obviously takes quite a bit of time, effort and expense to implement such a change, I'm just wondering what the real reason is. Technical or otherwise? Anybody know?

Thanks,
-Marty

Marty, I know in some markets TWC was trying to group channels into tiers by category. IE: News, Sports, Movies, Kids, Lifestyle, etc. This could be the reason. However, I'm still dismayed by the utter lack of customizable within the guides and it's something I thought would be fixed with Navigator. For example, in my market I still have to wade through entire "test" tiers of channels I can't get as well as duplicate tiers and channels in triplicate. Our market has channel tiers into the 1900's for cryin' out loud but only actually has around 200-250 channels give or take depending on PPV, On Demand, etc. Using the On Screen Guide is a beast to go through. This was another reason I am still considering DirecTV. In fact, if I drop the cable portion of my TWC service I most likely will dump the digital phone as well (even though it has been satisfactory) because once I un-bundle the service the phone loses it's value. I'm stuck with RoadRunner as it's my only option for broadband here, but have been completely satisfied with it thus far. Maybe go to DirecTV on my main set and master bedroom with basic cable or OTA on the other outlets. I have decided not to give TWC that three month window I initially said I would. Seeing as how the time frame for Navigator in our market has come and gone I will now expect a reliable and functional version once it arrives. TWC has had more than enough time to work out the bugs. They take in billions each year and these problems should have been solved by now. Navigator along with the utter lack of communication, the lack of significant HD additions, and the basic screw the customer attitude has also helped me make up my mind.

The latest firmware upgrade for Navigator here in Cincinnati seems to have solved the HDMI resolution issues. One can now select a specific resolution (1080i, etc). Interestingly they seemed to have also solved the problem where switching resolutions caused the HDTV to flash into the blue source screen on an Olevia HDTV. Now I can have both 480p and 1080i enabled for the SA8300HDC and not have the blue screen pop up when switching between SDTV and HDTV channels (which properly show up as 480p and 1080i respectively on the HDTV's information screen). I am still leaving the SA8300HDC set to only display 1080i though. I find that a few SDTV channels seem to overscan slightly on the top in 480p or 720p (with flickering white/black at the top edge). The Olevia 327V doesn't allow the vertical screen position to be adjusted to eliminate this (which is what I did for the component display mode). Oddly 1080i suppresses this artifact completely under HDMI.

One major issue missing from your list is that Navigator only buffers the current program while viewing. Under Passport you can rewind through any number of programs that fit with the available buffered time. Under Navigator, the last program disappears from the buffer as soon as the next program starts. This is a real drag since it requires you to save or pause a buffered program immediately if there is any risk that it might end soon. With Passport you have a much bigger window to work in and don't have to worry about the program ending before you save it.

Guys,

I had to share this with you,

A user at the TWC San Diego Forum has provided a known summary of Navigator's bugs, and a few improvements from Passport. We know that some of these issues will vary from area to area. But perhaps ADMIN might consider a subforum where this list could be maintained and updated. There are too many non- Navigator issues in this thread: Here is the list:

Things That Are Worse or Broken:


Jack

The latest firmware upgrade for Navigator here in Cincinnati seems to have solved the HDMI resolution issues.

Version? ODN or MDN?

xnappo

1. From personal experience: eSATA works fine with 2.4.5_4; with 2.4.9_3 it is broken (i.e. works only with the "keep the box busy all the time" workaround). Never had 2.4.8_2, but from what I read, it behaves like 2.4.9_3 in that regard.

2. Don't know, but I don't remember anybody complaining about it not working in any version. It is fairly recently (or not yet) downloaded for most people, though, so it is too early to tell.



I have the same version(2.4.9_3 )and I'm having an issue with the newly attached Hard Drive I just added vie ESATA. I assume by keeping the box busy you mean don't let it set for some length time doing nothing. Any idea how long that is?

I have the same version(2.4.9_3 )and I'm having an issue with the newly attached Hard Drive I just added vie ESATA. I assume by keeping the box busy you mean don't let it set for some length time doing nothing. Any idea how long that is?3 hours.

How do I do a soft reboot with an 8300HDC again? I tried volume up, volume down, and guide all at the same time. That didn't do anything.

I did volume up, volume down, and info buttons on the DVR and that did the soft reboot. It also fixed the AIT problem. Hard rebooting didn't work. I also swapped out my co-axial cables so that have had an affect.

Marty, I know in some markets TWC was trying to group channels into tiers by category. IE: News, Sports, Movies, Kids, Lifestyle, etc. This could be the reason. However, I'm still dismayed by the utter lack of customizable within the guides and it's something I thought would be fixed with Navigator. For example, in my market I still have to wade through entire "test" tiers of channels I can't get as well as duplicate tiers and channels in triplicate. Our market has channel tiers into the 1900's for cryin' out loud but only actually has around 200-250 channels give or take depending on PPV, On Demand, etc. Using the On Screen Guide is a beast to go through...
Our old lineup here sounds similar but not as bad as you had it, Ben. It also sounds like the new lineup was intended to be simialr to what you described, i.e. the categories.

Prior to the realignment, we got up into the 16 or 1700's but only had a couple hundred actual channels. After the realignment, they've got it back down to where it all fits under 1000, but the duplicate and triplicate entries drive me nuts as I am wading through the guide. And, they still make us enter all 4 digits to go immediately to a channel, another real pain-in-the-butt.

For a few days, I thought they had elimimated Encore. Finally I located it in the hardcopy channel guide they mailed out. For some reason, it is in the 200s "Movies" rather than in the 600s with all the other premium channels including Starz.

-Marty

3 hours.


So 3 hours is the lucky number. Someone figured out a way to automate sending a command to the 8300HDC?...I have a Harmony One remote. i don't remember any type of scheduling of command sends when i was setting it up.

Thanks in advance.....

So 3 hours is the lucky number. Someone figured out a way to automate sending a command to the 8300HDC?Not yet. It involves scheduling a series that records 24/7. Rather than rehash the whole thing yet again, I'll ask you to search the thread for "sleep mode".

Recently posted to the TWC "Eastern Carolina" site. (What happened to the Raleigh/Durham/Fayetteville moniker?")

Quote:
The transition to the new Navigator on-screen guide will take three months to complete, therefore if you have multiple cable boxes in your home, you may not see the new guide appear on all boxes at the same time.

We will send you information in the mail about the new on-screen guide up to 4 weeks before the upgrade occurs on your box(es). If we have your email address in our system, you will receive an email one week before the upgrade is scheduled to occur. Also, we will give you a courtesy call the day before you are scheduled to receive the new on-screen guide for each box in your home. You are not required to be at home during the time the software upgrade takes place.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/easte...navigator.html

I emailed the former VP of Marketing for TWC in the Triangle area(He is now the VP in Charlotte) about the Navigator rollout here and he said:

I have seen the schedule for the role out of the Navigator in the Raleigh/Fayetteville areas. It will be done by box type (not geography) beginning within the next week and should be completed by mid-June.

Version? ODN or MDN?

xnappo

Since I mentioned I have a SA8300HDC, it is obvious it should be ODN.
I haven't checked the version but it should be 4.9.3 (since everyone here
has that now).

San Diego doesn't have 4.9.3 yet...I'm still on a 4.8.X software.

My box with navigator has worked without a hitch so far, except.....the fastest fast forward is painfully slow and the 15 minute jump forward at a time does not work. Has anybody been able to get that functionality to work?

Thanks, Mike

^Hold the fast forward button for a few seconds.

Well 2 weeks ago they switched out my 8300HD.

Things I noticed.

I did keep my recordings.

IT DROPPED 1/3rd of the shows I set as series recording... It seems like any program that it couldn't find in the guide data it just decided to drop. Needless to say it's a little annoying having to go through and see what shows got dropped.

I can't 15m FF like it says I'm suppose to be able too.

I've ran into a bunch of other little bugs.

I don't like the fact I can't set my 480p output resolution to be stretched and my 1080i to be "normal". Best work around I found was telling the box the TV is a 4:3. Then 480p gets stretched and 1080i stuff looks normal and not clipped. As I found if I had the TV setup as 16:9 and video set to stretched for 480p the stupid cable box decided to stretch 1080i still as well.

Has anybody noticed problems when trying to play back recordings while they are still recording? So far, every time I try to play something that hasn't finished recording, the recording is either corrupted or won't play... and then I get a message in the recording log that the show could not be recorded (error 7 or something like that).

SA8300HDC with Navigator 2.4.9_3

I've had he 8300hdc for several months now. I don't know what version of the software I'm running. I rebooted the thing and looked but didn't see it listed. I have a pasport box on my regular TV which I love and a pasport HD box which I love. Problem1: when I turn on the TV in the morning (Vizio 42" LCD HDMI input and will handle 1080p) the Non HD channels look tall and thin. This is how they look (to me) on the 4:3 aspect ratio. I set the box to 16:9. when I switch to an HD channel and then back to non-HD the picture looks correct. Turn off the TV and then back on or start watching a (non-HD) recorded show and the aspect is wrong again. Back to HD, back to non-HD problem fixed, of course I lose the rewind because I changed the channel. Anybody else have this?
Problem 2: on my passport box I can switch between the tuners (without starting the PIP) and I have the last hour of programming for both tuners. I can't get the OCAP to swap without PIP, I almost always lose both tuner DVR history and always if one tuner is HD and the other is not. Is this part of the system?

Question: I have 2 HDM Iinpts on my TV (for PIP and side by side viewing). Is there a way to get 2 outputs, 1 from each tuner, from the OCAP box?

Has anybody noticed problems when trying to play back recordings while they are still recording? So far, every time I try to play something that hasn't finished recording, the recording is either corrupted or won't play... and then I get a message in the recording log that the show could not be recorded (error 7 or something like that).

SA8300HDC with Navigator 2.4.9_3

Actually, this is one of the things that started working for me finally with the latest update. With the earlier version, this always broke, but has been working fine since we were updated to 2.4.9.

Actually, this is one of the things that started working for me finally with the latest update. With the earlier version, this always broke, but has been working fine since we were updated to 2.4.9.

For me, it was broken in a slightly different way: in 2.4.5_4, if I tuned to the channel I was recording, more often than not it would stop recording. If I tried to pause or jump back, it would definitely stop recording. Worked fine if I started playing back from the beginning using Recorded List, however. That was a hassle especialy when both tunners were busy.
But, 2.4.9_3 fixed it for me as well. jbmdharris, if it never worked right for you, you may have a bad box (quite a common thing for that model); if it worked with older version, and now does not work, that's strange. Then maybe it is location-related - I'm in Cary like gstelmack, and there's at least one more person from this area (robotron2084) reporting that this particular issue got fixed in 2.4.9_3.

Has anybody noticed problems when trying to play back recordings while they are still recording? So far, every time I try to play something that hasn't finished recording, the recording is either corrupted or won't play... and then I get a message in the recording log that the show could not be recorded (error 7 or something like that).

SA8300HDC with Navigator 2.4.9_3

I'm in Cincy, too, and I haven't had that problem. Is this since the latest update? I don't think I've tried to watch a program since, like you state, since the update.

Well, I'm on 2.4.9_3... but only had the box for about a week before the upgrade so I really can't compare this version to the last version well. I was surfing around and found something on History HD. After about 5 minutes of watching, it looked interesting so, instead of watching it all through the commercials, I pushed the record button on the remote so I could come back to it in about 30 minutes to start over at the beginning and finish it out about the time the show ended. I continued surfing and finding nothing, I decided to watch a show I had recorded earlier. When that recording finished, I decided to go back and watch the History HD show that was about 5 minutes from finishing. So I found it in the list and started to play it. But nothing happened. Just a black screen. The interactive guide worked... but there was no picture and no sound on the recording. So I changed the channel with the channel up/down button and I got a picture and sound back. So I tried to play the recording again. Still no picture and no sound. Fast forward didn't work either. I know there's nothing wrong with the channel signal as I was watching it when I started the recording. Anyway, I changed channels again to get picture sound back. When I went to the play list a third time to try, the recording was gone from the list! In the recording log, there was a message that the show could not be recorded (code 7).

I know we cover guide customization before (actually lack thereof), but I was wondering if any of the newer revisions of Navigator have channel remapping for HD. In other words, will the set top provide the HD feed only when it's available? My wife constantly DVR's stuff on the SD version of a given channel when the HD version is available. The problem is that the SD versions are usually duplicated throughout the guide whereas the HD version is only in the 800 tier. It gets annoying after awhile and a simple add delete channel menu or just an option to remap SD to the HD version would be nice. I really don't need the same channel in the guide 3-4 times over! Currently our guide has tiers into the 1900's!!!

It's starting to look like those who have the 8300HDC with ODN (OCAP-D-N), got stuck with O-CRAP-D-N!

I have the legacy 8300HD with Mystro 2.4.1-92 and it now records everything I want. It too has the occasional reboot when you don't expect it, but I've learned to go slow on button pushing on the remote and it (seems to) behave itself.

... I was wondering if any of the newer revisions of Navigator have channel remapping for HD.

My SA 8300HDC with Navigator 2.4.9_3 doesn't appear to have this type of function. If you want to see or record the HD version of a channel, you have to explicitly choose it.

Our nearby cities got the Navigator HD 8300 last night and I found that there was a TWC truck on our street today. I talked to a few people on the Milwaukee forum, and so far, no major problems to report. Having said that, it is way too early for an evaluation in my specific area. In outline communities, the main issues remain the slowness of the guide compared to Passport and the loss of some series recording features, such as time sensitive recording.

Jack

PS. I expect to be "hit" any night now.

Ya, the boxes are definitely slow...I never thought I'd miss passport after waiting so long for navigator, but the speed (and stability somewhat, especially with recorded programs) just sucks to put it bluntly. Has TW been planning on addressing this at all?

I had some free time and ran a scan of the cable line with my QAM digital TV. Then I checked the channels found. Kind of boring and slow since most channels found are blank (encrypted?). Anyway, I got to channel 0 and there was a welcome screen about now having Navigator (which I don't, but I was not using my DVR box so seeing what others would see that have it). Go up a channel and there was another channel 0 with advertisements.

I am in the Los Angeles region which has very little Navigator so far (along with very little HD, etc...)

/Dan

Well my 8300HDC crapped out this morning. At first, we'd trying switching to a channel and no matter which one it was, after a couple of seconds, we'd get the screen telling us we need to call to subscribe. So I figured it was time for the inevitable reboot. Unfortunately it stuck repeatedly on "Ait".

Fortunately TWC came out quickly and had to replace the box. But it was a good time to chat with the tech. He certainly doesn't have a lot of love for the actual hardware/firmware, that's for sure. One thing he did mention though was that there is a big firmware update coming soon for this box. And I did ask, he did mean firmware and not software (ie, Navigator).

BTW, I let the tech convince me to switch to component cables (I've been using HDMI) and setting it to 1080i only. I can't complain about the picture, but holy cow, I have to set the volume to almost double what I normally have it set at to hear.

I've actually switched back to my HDMI connection (despite the occasional glitch where it drops down to 480i).

There are some advanced audio settings you can tweak in the cable box device menu. I found that if I don't have one of the settings (can't remember which one right now) set to "Narrow", the volume is very quiet. I actually found a similar setting on my DVD player. Now my DVD and cable box have roughly the same audio level. I think this might have something to do with the fact that I'm not using surround sound or digital audio outputs.

Ya, the boxes are definitely slow...I never thought I'd miss passport after waiting so long for navigator, but the speed (and stability somewhat, especially with recorded programs) just sucks to put it bluntly. Has TW been planning on addressing this at all?

I got Navigator on my Pioneer non-dvr and it is SLOWWWW. The keying to find shows is also a big step back. Still waiting for Navigator on my SA8300HD in Milwaukee.

Well my 8300HDC crapped out this morning. At first, we'd trying switching to a channel and no matter which one it was, after a couple of seconds, we'd get the screen telling us we need to call to subscribe. So I figured it was time for the inevitable reboot. Unfortunately it stuck repeatedly on "Ait".

Fortunately TWC came out quickly and had to replace the box. But it was a good time to chat with the tech. He certainly doesn't have a lot of love for the actual hardware/firmware, that's for sure. One thing he did mention though was that there is a big firmware update coming soon for this box. And I did ask, he did mean firmware and not software (ie, Navigator).

He probably doesn't know the difference or was just taking the standard TWC line of passing the buck.

He probably doesn't know the difference or was just taking the standard TWC line of passing the buck.

No, this guy was fairly knowledgable from what I gathered in the time we talked. Like I said, he didn't have good things to say about the hardware and we talked about the differences between Navigator and Passport. He also follows some message boards, though he said he never registers on them.

Oh and I forgot to mention, he flat out said TWC was disabling the eSATA port (not surprising to me at all).

Oh and I forgot to mention, he flat out said TWC was disabling the eSATA port (not surprising to me at all).

Well, that's a good way to lose subs. People are already fed up with Navigator, so why not alienate them more by making their expansion drives worthless. Way to go TWC!

Got a voicemail from TWC this morning saying Navigator will be dumped on me in the next couple of days.
Add insult to injury by dropping e-sata I'll be looking at satilite or U-Verse for sure!
Greendale, Wi. (metro-Milwaukee)
MDR

Got a voicemail from TWC this morning saying Navigator will be dumped on me in the next couple of days.
Add insult to injury by dropping e-sata I'll be looking at satilite or U-Verse for sure!
Greendale, Wi. (metro-Milwaukee)
MDR

This is another point that needs to be raised,

Why are some people getting voice mails, and flyer's about Navigator before it hits, and others are getting no notice at all? This is happening even in the same division. My brother got no notice of Navigator, (TWC-Milwaukee) but others have. Does anyone know what determines if you get a notice or not?

Jack

I received a mailer the day after I was updated.

Got the Navigator 2 days ago. I lost all my parental control and favorite chs. Also all my reminder timers and power on ch. Anyone else experience that?

Got the Navigator 2 days ago. I lost all my parental control and favorite chs. Also all my reminder timers and power on ch. Anyone else experience that?

Nitdis,

To help us understand your issue, can you indicate your city, or closest vicinity if you don't want to mention your exact location, as well as the type of box you have. Is it a C box or a non- C box?

Jack

I also was recently upgraded to 2.4.9_3 and started getting stuck in 480 when turning on the box (I am connected via HDMI).

I discovered that pressing the # key on the remote (labeled HD ZOOM) would snap it back to 1080.

I still get the small picture in the upper right corner that can still be fixed by turning PIP on and off.

Hey all. Someone please help, I just don't have the patience to dig through 101 pages of this thread lol. I searched to the best of my abilities but came up with nada.

I have TWC in Staten Island, NY, and have the SA8300HDC Navigator STB. I want to expand the storage capacity on the box, but am afraid to because of a horrible past experience. (Basically, bought a nice external WD SATA drive which, according to WD was made SPECIFICALLY for my old box. Then I get home, and good old TWC disabled the ports. To boot, I got a 6 point speeding ticket on the way to pick up the drive, which was just icing on the cake.)

Anyway, has anybody gotten an external drive to work with this box having the ports disabled? Also keep in mind, I have no idea what firmware I have on the box, 2.4.5_4 or the 2.4.8 one. I'm not even sure how to determine which one I have. I just got the box on Monday, so I'm figuring it's the newer one. Anyway, has anybody had any luck with this??

Thanks for any and all help you guys can provide. And might I add, #@#@!$@ TWC for providing HD boxes with less storage capacity than a thumb drive, and then not letting us do anything about it. I really do hate them for it. Please help.

Thanks for any and all help you guys can provide. And might I add, #@#@!$@ TWC for providing HD boxes with less storage capacity than a thumb drive, and then not letting us do anything about it. I really do hate them for it. Please help.

Well, DirecTV loves them for it!

Just an update. Well they dumped Navigator on me last night. Off to a great start it trashed my 8300HD. It caused all sorts of noise(disk kept clicking like mad and when that stopped it made a horrible buzzing noise.) Then it would just hang saying "Mystro" initializing. The phone rep. could even hear it across the room when she tried resetting it remotely. Of course they said I needed a new box. Went to the local office to exchange it and the rep. was very familiar with the problem saying a lot of the 8300HD's got trashed (even hers) by this new improved product.
Unfortunately I now have an 8300HDC. Spent the entire day just going thru and setting it up. Yes the interface is rather ugly but overall it functions ok so far. My rev. level is in my signature.
Of course the real test will be recording(which I will do tonight).
Yes it is a little slower than Passport, but not as bad as I was led to believe by following the forum. It's a question of becoming familiar with the new interface. Some things are nicer, other aren't and everyone will have their own personal likes and dislikes.
So I'll see how it functions over the next few days and see how well it does it's primary purpose of recording and playing back reliably. That's my big concern!
MDR

Well somewhat good news. I just had my software updated to 2.4.9.3 and there are some improvements. I'm running component video to my Sony A3000 and digital coax to my Onkyo 605. Picture seems a little bit sharper now, and internal volume of the box seems to have increased.

Hey all. Someone please help, I just don't have the patience to dig through 101 pages of this thread lol. I searched to the best of my abilities but came up with nada.

I have TWC in Staten Island, NY, and have the SA8300HDC Navigator STB. I want to expand the storage capacity on the box, but am afraid to because of a horrible past experience. (Basically, bought a nice external WD SATA drive which, according to WD was made SPECIFICALLY for my old box. Then I get home, and good old TWC disabled the ports. To boot, I got a 6 point speeding ticket on the way to pick up the drive, which was just icing on the cake.)

Anyway, has anybody gotten an external drive to work with this box having the ports disabled? Also keep in mind, I have no idea what firmware I have on the box, 2.4.5_4 or the 2.4.8 one. I'm not even sure how to determine which one I have. I just got the box on Monday, so I'm figuring it's the newer one. Anyway, has anybody had any luck with this??

Thanks for any and all help you guys can provide. And might I add, #@#@!$@ TWC for providing HD boxes with less storage capacity than a thumb drive, and then not letting us do anything about it. I really do hate them for it. Please help.

To see the version you have, press and hold Select on the remote until a little mail icon starts flashing on the STB. Then hit arrow down. Look for network version. Common numbers are 2.4.5_4, 2.4.8_2 and 2.4.9_3.

The eSATA port works; however, in 2.4.8_2 and 2.4.9_3, there's the "sleep mode" that the thing falls if not used constantly; if an external drive is connected at that time, the box would not wake up without manual reboot (and would not record since it could not wake up). The only thing that seem to work is to have the box engaged at all times. The best way I know how is to set something to record 24/7 (I use local weather channel set up as series recordings). If you can live with that kind of workaround, connect your drive; else live with the measly amount of space. There are some contrary information as to how long a period it takes for the box to fall asleep. For some people it is 3 hours. It fell asleep for me today with only 2 hours between recordings.
Note that 2.4.5_4 works fine with the drive, but even if you have it, chances are you'll be soon "upgraded".

It is a good idea to put in your location in your profile, as different areas have different stuff; you would not think that with software, but with TWC, anything's possible.

For those getting dumped with Navigator in Wisconsin,

What time are you getting the change over? I want to try to make sure that the DVR is doing as little as possible when it happens. Also, to Racinmd, were you watching TV at the time your box got fried, and how old was your box? I guess what I am asking is, what if anything can we do to protect our boxes from locking up during the change over?

Jack

For those getting dumped with Navigator in Wisconsin,

What time are you getting the change over? I want to try to make sure that the DVR is doing as little as possible when it happens. Also, to Racinmd, were you watching TV at the time your box got fried, and how old was your box? I guess what I am asking is, what if anything can we do to protect our boxes from locking up during the change over?

Jack
It was an early 8300hd (got it when they first hit the Milwaukee area).
Yes the TV was on and the update came around 3 AM. .
I'm a 3rd shifter and was off last night but dozed off and woke up to the noises I mentioned previously. .

I've had he 8300hdc and I now know I'm runing 2.4.9_3 thanks to everyone on this forum for all this great info. It's good just to know I'm not the only one having issues with Navigator. Hoping for more help. Problem1: when I turn on the TV in the morning (Vizio 42" LCD HDMI input and will handle 1080p) the Non HD channels look tall and thin. regardless of the aspect ratio set in Navigator. I like non HD to look like normal, not stretched, with bands on each side but at startup the bands are wider and the picture more narow than it it's supposed to be. Switching to HD and back usually fixes this temporarily. Anybody else have this?
Problem 2: on my passport box I can switch between the tuners (without starting the PIP) and I have the last hour of programming for both tuners. I can't get the OCAP to swap without PIP, I almost always lose both tuner DVR history and always if one tuner is HD and the other is not. Is this part of the system?

Question: I have 2 HDM Iinpts on my TV (for PIP and side by side viewing). Is there a way to get 2 outputs, 1 from each tuner, from the OCAP box?

BTW, this is sort of a repost from acouple of days ago. I didn't see any responses so I wanted to put it out there again. I hope nobody minds.

I have Pioneer bd-v1100. Non-DVR type box. I am in the Columbus, Oh division. I manually put all my pc and favs back in as well as the power on ch.

Man, I am not sure why some think this is not a lot slower than Passport. This is deadly slow. And why when I hit the Guide button the picture goes away in the top right hand corner 50% of the time. TW says because the type of box. Well, I have had this box for 3+ years and never had this issue.

And reboots. I think I have had 3 reboots over the life of Passport. I have had 4 in the last two days. Plus it can take up to 8 minutes for it to come back up and functioning. :eek:

I have Pioneer bd-v1100. Non-DVR type box. I am in the Columbus, Oh division. I manually put all my pc and favs back in as well as the power on ch.

Man, I am not sure why some think this is not a lot slower than Passport. This is deadly slow. And why when I hit the Guide button the picture goes away in the top right hand corner 50% of the time. TW says because the type of box. Well, I have had this box for 3+ years and never had this issue.

And reboots. I think I have had 3 reboots over the life of Passport. I have had 4 in the last two days. Plus it can take up to 8 minutes for it to come back up and functioning. :eek:

The Pioneers are the slowest with Navigator. The reason is because they are at least 7 years old and don't have the needed memory. In fact, Pioneer doesn't make digital cable boxes anymore.

You should exchange your Pioneer box for an SA model. It won't be a cure all with Navigator, but I have heard you get faster speed on the later model boxes.

Jack

Thanks for the reply, Jack. My whole point is that I am sure there are 1000's of us out there with this type of box. I would expect a company to make everyone as inconvenienced as possible if they roll out something new. Especially, when it is slower and the look and feel has degraded. Why add more customer complaints by also having it reboot or cause other problems?

How do you Fast Forward recordings in 30 second increments? I see 15-minute increments (by pressing the right key when in FF mode) but want 30 seconds. This can be done with DirecTV DVR.

It can be done with TiVos as well. It is not, however, a known feature of Navigator.

Anyway, has anybody gotten an external drive to work
Go here and read: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=516559
Also, plenty of databases on what seems to work and not work referenced. I have not done it (waiting for Navigator) but many have. TWC says the external port doesn't work, but they all(?) seem to with quirks. /Dan

Just curious...besides saving space (less cables), is there any advantage right now to using HDMI for audio and video on these boxes? Is there a performance difference over HDMI+digital coax or component+digital coax?

Just curious...besides saving space (less cables), is there any advantage right now to using HDMI for audio and video on these boxes? Is there a performance difference over HDMI+digital coax or component+digital coax?In short - NO. Generally, with today's digital sets HDMI for video will be superior to component (but there are exceptions). Also, with cable boxes there will be no differences in the audio quality if your surround sound receiver gets it's digital audio bitstream from HDMI or from digital coax. Now, if we are talking about Blu-ray players or something, there are some advanced audio formats that can only be carried (to receivers capable of dealing with them) by HDMI. But these formats don't exist on cable.

There are a couple of downsides to running HDMI from various sources to an HDMI switching AV receiver and then to a single display input:
There may be HDCP "handshake" issues due to the receiver.
You no longer have unique user settings memories for each source. As a result, you either have to find compromise user settings that are acceptable for all sources, or change the settings every time you select inputs.

Thanks...I'm debating whether to swap out the component for HDMI. I got a great deal from a friend on a set of Monster M1000 component cables because I didn't like how you couldn't set a dedicated output on the SA8300HDC and Mystro. I was curious if a Monoprice HDMI would look better than the M1000 component. My gut feeling says no, only because the resolution is up to 1080i. Dave...your recommendation sounds to go to the HDMI. I'd probably do HDMI from box to second HDMI output and keep coax going to Onkyo 605 ( want to save the other HDMI input on there for something else and the first is used by a Panasonic BD30).

Just for info: I swapped out my HDMI for component on the 8300HD because of HDCP and found there to be no discernible difference in PQ. My projector would lose sync when switching resolutions and I didn't want the box scaling the image and then the projector re-scaling it again, so I can now use the pass-through setting without issue.

Just for info: I swapped out my HDMI for component on the 8300HD because of HDCP and found there to be no discernible difference in PQ. My projector would lose sync when switching resolutions and I didn't want the box scaling the image and then the projector re-scaling it again, so I can now use the pass-through setting without issue.Believe it or not, your projector is possibly converting HDMI digital to analog internally, processing in the analog domain and (assuming it is a DLP) converting it back to digital for display.

It is another one of those cases where: "It depends.........."

My response was "Generally....".

I have heard (unconfirmed at this point) that the North Carolina SARA users will soon be switched to NAVIGATOR.I knew someone had to be first but was hopeing it was not us.I was told it is a new version of Navigator but who really knows. SARA 1.89.17.1

I really hope TWC adds channel mapping to this. At least DirecTV has an option to eliminate non-HD versions of channels. That's a huge problem with Navigator in general. It's missing so many features that any basic guide should have!

this is true. a coworker got an email that said he would be upgraded some time next week and would get a call 24 hours in advance. he has an 8300hd

the problem is that alot of the hd channels dont show the same thing as the non hd channels. the programming is different

the problem is that alot of the hd channels dont show the same thing as the non hd channels. the programming is differentThat is becoming less true. Most of the new HD channels DO duplicate the programming of their SD counterpart. Recently Food HD went from their on unique (HD only) programming to simulcasting.

But the suggestion that consumers be able to customize their "Guide" in such a manner is a good one (but does someone have a patent on that that provides a roadblock?).

Any Navigator downloads or schedules for the Milwaukee area? Please let us know. What I heard is that the they are going from older boxes to newer boxes first. At least we know that the 8300HD DVR's are being done now. It would be nice to have a city or area schedule so that we can plan for the change-over.

Jack

But the suggestion that consumers be able to customize their "Guide" in such a manner is a good one (but does someone have a patent on that that provides a roadblock?).I don't think that it has anything to do with patents. The cable company has no motivation to remove the channels that you don't use or subscribe to from your view. Having to glimpse the programming on those other channels while navigating the guide is a kind of advertising, and like most advertising, annoying :).

wow, just had my DVR'S update to navigator :eek::( ( Waukesha & West Allis, WI )

So disappointed with it, the search by keyword with in the description is now non-existent. So many other issues with it. Another big one for me is the following. If I go ahead a day within the guide, it does not keep the information for the next time I go in the guide. So every time I go within the guide, I have to wait every time for it to load the next day, this thing is a POS compared to Passport. I visited the TWC store and talked with the rep, took a survey from me and said he's been hearing all this negative information all day.He even said all the employees were disappointed with the update. I'll be looking for another TV provider, just had the last straw with Time Warners crap.

this is true. a coworker got an email that said he would be upgraded some time next week and would get a call 24 hours in advance. he has an 8300hd

Is Cary on Sara or Passport?Sara here in Greensboro but I have heard were going to Navigator very soon.

Greensboro has startover,caller ID and SDV guess that is why we may be one of early Sara users to be Navigated.Hope we do not lose any features.(fingers crossed) sara 1.89.17.1

Curious if anyone with the legacy 8300HD box has seen Mystro Navigator with a ResApp version > 2.4.1-92...

Overall,

Have their been ANY improvements to Navigator with all of these updates they keep pushing out? As many of you know, I am in the Metro Milwaukee area. The hate for the new guide is still very strong. I was hoping that after almost 2 years in the field that there would be something, no matter how small, to report about the new guide. Based on what I am hearing, the Dish reps couldn't be happier!

Any Navigator improvements over the last 6 months to a year that you have noticed?

Jack

Overall,

Have their been ANY improvements to Navigator with all of these updates they keep pushing out? As many of you know, I am in the Metro Milwaukee area. The hate for the new guide is still very strong. I was hoping that after almost 2 years in the field that there would be something, no matter how small, to report about the new guide. Based on what I am hearing, the Dish reps couldn't be happier!

Any Navigator improvements over the last 6 months to a year that you have noticed?

Jack

I have posted the differences I've noticed in the new version:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13466310#post13466310

My answer would be that there is nowhere near enough improvement to even qualify this as an upgrade and that is just from listening to other members here as well as on other forums. That was my primary reason for taking a serious look at DirecTV and withdrawing the three month window I was willing to give TWC once it is deployed here. If I get a version that is along the lines of what I'm reading here, I will drop TWC in favor of D* and go with OTA and Vonage. I have to keep RoadRunner because I have no other option.

There is NO EXCUSE for this mess. TWC clears billions every year and forcing a sub-standard guide upon it's customers is just further greed. They could have explored numerous other options instead of trying this in-house.

I think that 2.4.1-92 Is the only version that I have seen for the SA8300HD boxes and it is the one that I have on my 3 boxes of this type. I am in TWDC (desert sities) which is the Palm Springs area and I believe connected to the San Diego area.
I am getting reboots on a reg basis that is a pain when turning set on to see something quickly and it takes 5 min to reboot.
Roy

answer to humdinger70

Apologies if this question was answered already, but here's a scenario that's giving me trouble:

I'm watching a ballgame, but still getting used to my setup (new TV, new STB, new receiver, new 7.1, new sub). So I need to go into my TWC settings to change something. This makes the picture smaller, while also downgrading to 480i. I go PiP to get the picture back to normal size, and also hit the # key to upgrade the quality to 1080i. But my TV is 1080p, and that's how I wanna watch my game dammit! I know changing the channel to a non-HD channel and changing back fixes this, but if I'm behind live time, I'll lose my buffer and miss part of the game. Any way to get it back to 1080p without changing the channel???

Thanks for all your help guys. This box has MANY quirks and oddities (shame on TWC, because their QA and R&D departments must SUCK), and you guys are a huge help in overcoming them. Really can't thank you enough.

-Chris

Edit - Upon further investigating, I don't even think this box is 1080p compatible. It's not in the options menu, nor in the manual. I could have SWORN though that when I switched formats previously, like say from PS3 back to cable, my TV displayed the current output as 1080p. Maybe I'm going crazy though. Can someone besides my psychiatrist confirm this? =P

I think that 2.4.1-92 Is the only version that I have seen for the SA8300HD boxes and it is the one that I have on my 3 boxes of this type. I am in TWDC (desert sities) which is the Palm Springs area and I believe connected to the San Diego area.
I am getting reboots on a reg basis that is a pain when turning set on to see something quickly and it takes 5 min to reboot.
Roy

answer to humdinger70

aw crap, now the "non-C" boxes are going to start the spontaneous rebooting??!!

...
Edit - Upon further investigating, I don't even think this box is 1080p compatible. It's not in the options menu, nor in the manual. I could have SWORN though that when I switched formats previously, like say from PS3 back to cable, my TV displayed the current output as 1080p. Maybe I'm going crazy though. Can someone besides my psychiatrist confirm this? =P
I cannot attest to your mental state, but my cable box settings only go up to 1080i.
;)
-Marty

NONE of the current Cable or SAT boxes output 1080p.
Perhaps sometime in the future.....

aw crap, now the "non-C" boxes are going to start the spontaneous rebooting??!!

What do you mean "start"? The rebooting has been a part of Mystro Navigator since it arrived (for me, February 26 in metro San Diego). I have found it doesn't do it as much if I go slow on the button pushing, but it still occurs.

What do you mean "start"? The rebooting has been a part of Mystro Navigator since it arrived (for me, February 26 in metro San Diego). I have found it doesn't do it as much if I go slow on the button pushing, but it still occurs.

I was under the impression it was only the HDC boxes that were rebooting. My first and current boxes are 8300HD boxes, no problems with reboots (however, they've been running Passport), boxes 2-5 were HDC's with Navigator and rebooted constantly.

Well, the was some debate as to whether or not the reboot was because Navigator didn't play well with the HDC boxes. Thus, some of us were waiting it out to see if it indeed was a hardware problem and not a software problem. However, I can conclude that if non-C boxes are doing the same thing that these issues are mainly software issues and bad code. People with SARA and Passport have had nowhere near the problems that Navigator users have had. I can confirm that my non C box has performed almost flawlessly for 2 years and while the guide itself could use a major facelift, it does do what it is supposed to do without constant or self induced reboots. Our division has apparently put Navigator on hold because we were originally told first quarter of this year. Obviously, some divisions know what's going because I would imagine as the license agreements start to expire many more markets will have Navigator forced upon them. Right now, it seems those divisions want to keep the customers happy for the time being.

Edit - Upon further investigating, I don't even think this box is 1080p compatible. It's not in the options menu, nor in the manual. I could have SWORN though that when I switched formats previously, like say from PS3 back to cable, my TV displayed the current output as 1080p. Maybe I'm going crazy though. Can someone besides my psychiatrist confirm this? =P

The PS3 is your only 1080p capable source.

I live in Louisville, Oh (near Canton) and I turned on the TV this am... and BOOM... NAVIGATOR!!! What a way to start Monday morning. This is on my SA8300 non-HD box. I didn't check my SA8300HD to see if it switched over. Hopefully it didn't because I don't think I could live with 2 pieces of bad news on this Monday!! :p

I am tempted to put a list together of the Pros (if any) and Cons of navigator when I'm bored just for fun. I wasn't impressed at all with my 1st encounter with navigator on a SA8300HDC. Maybe they fixed some of the issues... but I'm betting they haven't.
mgd

The PS3 is your only 1080p capable source.There aren't that many sources of 1080p output--1080p displays have only been around for a few years. PS3s, Xbox 360s, higher-end Blu-ray and HD DVD players, Apple TV and the VUDU player are a few of the more visible products that can do it.

Since there is no 1080p broadcast television, there's not a whole lot of reason for cable STBs to be capable of outputting the resolution. Of course, there's nothing stopping cable from offering pay or subscription content encoded at 1080p24, so it wouldn't hurt.

I was under the impression it was only the HDC boxes that were rebooting. My first and current boxes are 8300HD boxes, no problems with reboots (however, they've been running Passport), boxes 2-5 were HDC's with Navigator and rebooted constantly.

Seems it's still a mixed bag with no real rhyme or reason. I first got my SA8300HDC back in December. I used to check the diagnostics quite regularly, and I never had any problems with involuntary reboots. Mind you, I had pulled the plug myself a few times, and since had the box replaced when it actually wouldn't boot, but rarely did it ever reboot on it's own.

I actually had to pull the plug last night. I decided to look through the firmware diagnostics, and several pages actually let you step through "sub-pages" which I hadn't noticed before. Well at some point in stepping through one of these, I noticed the audio stopped (you don't see video in these diagnostics - it's not transparent). When I exited out, the video was frozen. Changing the channels just showed a black screen. After making several other attempts to coax (hmmm, not co-ax ;)) the video to come back on, I had to finally reboot. Never had a freeze like that before.

I live in Louisville, Oh (near Canton) and I turned on the TV this am... and BOOM... NAVIGATOR!!! What a way to start Monday morning. This is on my SA8300 non-HD box. I didn't check my SA8300HD to see if it switched over. Hopefully it didn't because I don't think I could live with 2 pieces of bad news on this Monday!! :p

I am tempted to put a list together of the Pros (if any) and Cons of navigator when I'm bored just for fun. I wasn't impressed at all with my 1st encounter with navigator on a SA8300HDC. Maybe they fixed some of the issues... but I'm betting they haven't.
mgd

Were you on Passport or SARA before Navigator?This information helps us all. SARA 1.89.17.1 here

Is Cary on Sara or Passport?Sara here in Greensboro but I have heard were going to Navigator very soon.

Cary, is on passport as of 8:00 AM this morning. I expect that to change tonight. I go the same email and I am checking my voice mail now.

Just checked my messages and nothing yet. I guess Cary(or at least my house) will be passport for another day.

8:02pm Pacific Time, Time Warner San Diego - SA-8300HDC rebooted while I was just starting to watch Antique Roadshow on KPBS 711.

Anyone else experience this wonderful auto 'feature' on Crapigator from Crime Warner?

Not a week goes by that I don't have to reboot myself due to loss of sync, video, audio, or have an auto reboot.

TWC should be ASHAMED of releasing this piece of #$%*.

Erik

It looks like all versions of boxes, DVR's, C boxes and non-DVR's reboot. I have had my box for years, non-DVR, maybe 3 reboots. I have had at least 10 in less than a week. Also, airmaxone, you are correct about the search function not working worth a crap. I did the search by name the other day for Scrubs, spelled it out and then search. It said something like there is no programs with this name available. I started tuning up and there was an instance starting in 10 minutes and two starting in 40. How bad is that? Any first day program writer should be able to write something that lets you find that type of thing. Very pitiful!

Were you on Passport or SARA before Navigator?This information helps us all. SARA 1.89.17.1 here

I was on Passport. Not sure what version or whatever. I am also not sure what Version I have of Navigator on my non high def box or how to check for that.

My High Def box (SA-8300HD) was not converted over to Navigator yet.

Got an automated call from TWC today stating that my Passport software will be updated to Navigator overnight tonight. I have an external HD plugged into it. It better still work tomorrow :mad:. Maybe I'll unplug my box every night from now on to avoid the update :eek:

Got an automated call from TWC today stating that my Passport software will be updated to Navigator overnight tonight. I have an external HD plugged into it. It better still work tomorrow :mad:. Maybe I'll unplug my box every night from now on to avoid the update :eek:Unless I missed it, I don't think we've heard whether legacy boxes (non-C) have had problems with external drives and Navigator. Please let us know after you've gone through the "change".

Might as well leave it plugged in. They're eventually going to getcha.:rolleyes:

Got an automated call from TWC today stating that my Passport software will be updated to Navigator overnight tonight. I have an external HD plugged into it. It better still work tomorrow :mad:. Maybe I'll unplug my box every night from now on to avoid the update :eek:

The reason why that won't work is because when you plug the box back in, it will need to connect to the server, and if the server senses that a node (area where you live) has Navigator instead of Passport, it will download Navigator the next time it updates. All of TWC SE Wisconsin where I live is supposed to have Navigator by the end of the month.

I can relate to the info above, because at one of the local forums, this user had a tech out, he plugged a box in with Passport, and when it was authorized it downloaded Navigator. Good luck!

Jack

KzY, is you box an 8300HD or 8300HDC. Please let us know how it performs after it is "upgraded".

The reason why that won't work is because when you plug the box back in, it will need to connect to the server, and if the server senses that a node (area where you live) has Navigator instead of Passport, it will download Navigator the next time it updates. All of TWC SE Wisconsin where I live is supposed to have Navigator by the end of the month.

I can relate to the info above, because at one of the local forums, this user had a tech out, he plugged a box in with Passport, and when it was authorized it downloaded Navigator. Good luck!

Jack

I was just kidding about unplugging the box. I know it won't do any good. I am a network tech and I hate when stuff like this is out of my control!

KzY, is you box an 8300HD or 8300HDC. Please let us know how it performs after it is "upgraded".

It's an 8300HD. Had it for about 3 years now. I'll post and let folks know what happens after the update, if it happens at all.

Then you'll get Mystro Navigator (I have version 2.4.1-92 - let us know what you get). By the way, once you've had a chance to get it running you'll find it will be somewhat (somewhat being a bit subjective) more stable than those who get the OCAP Navigator version on the 8300HDC box.

You will, most likely, have to suffer thru a few unexpected reboots (maintenance updates?) but things should be pretty steady after a while.

Got an automated call from TWC today stating that my Passport software will be updated to Navigator overnight tonight. I have an external HD plugged into it. It better still work tomorrow :mad:. Maybe I'll unplug my box every night from now on to avoid the update :eek:

I got nothing here.

But I'll be unplugging the cable from my DVR just in case. There's nothing I need to record that I can't watch on clear QAM to the TV and I'll hold out until I'm forced to record something on the DVR. Keeping my Passport recordings safe so that I can watch them at my leisure using tried and true Passport control.

I got nothing here.

But I'll be unplugging the cable from my DVR just in case. There's nothing I need to record that I can't watch on clear QAM to the TV and I'll hold out until I'm forced to record something on the DVR. Keeping my Passport recordings safe so that I can watch them at my leisure using tried and true Passport control.I haven't tried running it "unplugged" lately, but in the past, Passport wouldn't work at all unless it was plugged into the cable system (my guess is that it checked to make sure that I was authorized to use the box, period). If that's the case, they'll eventually set things up such that the box won't boot before it can download the "upgrade". I haven't heard of anyone who lost a recording in the transition, so at last that's safe.

I haven't tried running it "unplugged" lately, but in the past, Passport wouldn't work at all unless it was plugged into the cable system (my guess is that it checked to make sure that I was authorized to use the box, period). If that's the case, they'll eventually set things up such that the box won't boot before it can download the "upgrade". I haven't heard of anyone who lost a recording in the transition, so at last that's safe.

I remembered that the box might not function without an active link as well so I tested it a few weeks ago when this started getting closer. It worked fine then and played recordings as normal.

I'll have to make sure I disconnect it early so they don't lock it out.

I remembered that the box might not function without an active link as well so I tested it a few weeks ago when this started getting closer. It worked fine then and played recordings as normal.

I'll have to make sure I disconnect it early so they don't lock it out.

I just watched the one thing I really didn't want to loose just in case, so now I feel a little better. I go to sleep late so maybe I'll try the "a watched toaster never pops up" method and keep watching so nothing will happen :D

I'm still trying to figure out all the madness going on with these boxes... but I just wanted to report that I am in Central Florida with Brighthouse Networks, have a SA 8300 HDC running what I believe to be Mystro Navigator and at around 2 AM it shut down and ran a very long upgrade to the CableCard.

Can't notice any differences though... but I figured I'd share for whatever it's worth.

Just got Navigator on my 8300HD DVR (No C)

A couple of observations:

The scrolling speed is indeed a bit slower, but it doesn't seem to be as bad as I was led to believe.

All recordings at least in my Record List carried over.

Favorites were listed accordingly.

Amazingly, I seem to like the idea of having the local news, weather, and sports consolidated in one place.

The downside is that my Closed Captioning still does not work, but considering the armaggedon that I was expecting for months and months, this is hardly a big deal.

I had to change my Banner Duration from Long to Medium.

Here are the things that I don't like:

1.) The graphics look crappy. I only have an SD set, but they just aren't as pleasing to the eyes as Passport was.

2.) TW needs to add a "View This Channel Now" prompt when browsing in the guide!!! This is asinine not to have!

3.) I never really used Series Recording, so I can't say how well or not well that is going to work.

4.) The loss of the C button to instantly tell when Title searches are scheduled over the next few days.

If Passport was an A, I'd give Navigator a C. It's way too early to do specific details. If we get a better title search and view this channel now as an option, that would be a big help.

Right now I would say, not great, but not horrible either. I am even shocked that I am saying this. We'll see what happens when I start recording things.

Oh yea, it did reboot when I made a settings change, but it only took about 4 minutes, not the 10 that I have been hearing about, which surprised me.

Jack

Well, I've been Navigated. I unfortunately don't have time to really check it out before I go to work, but the main thing I was worried about was the external HD. That appears to work. The first thing I saw when I turned it on was "The external drive is now connected to your DVR", so hopefully all is well there. I"ll have more details later, especially about the hard drive.

Got an automated call from TWC today stating that my Passport software will be updated to Navigator overnight tonight. I have an external HD plugged into it. It better still work tomorrow :mad:. Maybe I'll unplug my box every night from now on to avoid the update :eek:

KzY you may want to look at this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=516559

It seems Navigator works with the external HD but when it goes to "sleep" after 4 hours it locks up and you have to reboot to get it to work again.

I was “Navigatored” last night in the Cary/Raleigh NC Area. Everything seems to be working as designed. I lost a few features but all of my recordings are intact. I also think the PQ may be a little better.

Anyway, I no longer call it “Crapigator” I actually am not that displeased with it now that I have played with it. I did notice that my 8300HD box is faster than my 8300HDC box and my 8300HD box does not appear to have the resolution switching problems that the 8300 HDC box has.

Maybe I'll unplug my box every night from now on to avoid the update :eek:

Are you sure that will stop the update? I wouldn’t put it past them! I bet they will be at your door step the next day asking you to plug in your cable box!

KzY you may want to look at this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=516559

It seems Navigator works with the external HD but when it goes to "sleep" after 4 hours it locks up and you have to reboot to get it to work again.

So far no sleep problems with the box. It looks like it was updated around 3am or so and was fine this morning. When I get home from work I will check it. By then it will have been off for a good 10 hours.

I was “Navigatored” last night in the Cary/Raleigh NC Area. Everything seems to be working as designed. I lost a few features but all of my recordings are intact. I also think the PQ may be a little better.

Anyway, I no longer call it “Crapigator” I actually am not that displeased with it now that I have played with it. I did notice that my 8300HD box is faster than my 8300HDC box and my 8300HD box does not appear to have the resolution switching problems that the 8300 HDC box has.

Good...it isn't just me who thinks the picture is a little bit sharper with the new software. My sound volume also seems to have gone up, which is nice.

I got the update to Navigator last night too. Don't seem too bad. Didn't loose any recorded shows or scheduled recordings (drive was only 1/3rd full). Just had to reset the Power On/Off settings like I had before. Although, now I can't jump forward or backwards in 15 minute increments anymore. Can't get in the System Diagnostic screen using 999 anymore like on Passport so no idea what Navigator version I have on my SA8300HD DVR (non-C).

Updated From:
ResApp Version: PASSPORT Echo 2.6.002
OS Version: PowerTV 6.14.74.1sp
Driver Version: 1
ResApp Date: Dec 21 2006
OS Date: May 17 2006
PowerKey: PKEY_3.9.3.2-p +dvrs3
PowerKey Date: May 8 2006

Not sure about the Audio Range setting of Narrow (default), Wide and Normal. My gut says Normal is correct for non-leveled audio but Narrow has the same volume level as with Passport. I think Narrow is suppose to equal the volume across channels reducing louder or softer channel volumes when changing channels. Can anybody shed some light on this setting.

I got the update to Navigator last night too. Don't seem too bad. Didn't loose any recorded shows or scheduled recordings (drive was only 1/3rd full). Just had to reset the Power On/Off settings like I had before. Although, now I can't jump forward or backwards in 15 minute increments anymore. Can't get in the System Diagnostic screen using 999 anymore like on Passport so no idea what Navigator version I have on my SA8300HD DVR (non-C).

Updated From:
ResApp Version: PASSPORT Echo 2.6.002
OS Version: PowerTV 6.14.74.1sp
Driver Version: 1
ResApp Date: Dec 21 2006
OS Date: May 17 2006
PowerKey: PKEY_3.9.3.2-p +dvrs3
PowerKey Date: May 8 2006

Not sure about the Audio Range setting of Narrow (default), Wide and Normal. My gut says Normal is correct for non-leveled audio but Narrow has the same volume level as with Passport. I think Narrow is suppose to equal the volume across channels reducing louder or softer channel volumes when changing channels. Can anybody shed some light on this setting.

I like how Narrow is the default setting because it balances out sound between commercials and programs. This means that advertisers won't blast us out of the room on commercials that are 3x louder than the program. I think this is a good feature.

Some with external sound systems reported better success with changing this setting from Narrow to Normal. But if you don't have an external sound system, and want the volume to stay centralized on all types of programing on a channel, I would leave it on Narrow.

Jack

Well, my worst fears have finally come true and I got "Navigatored" last night on one of my two SA8300's. Like most people have said, it seems to be a big step down from Passport. I have an expansion drive on the other not-yet-Navigatored box and I'm really scared about all the reports of the drive getting "lost" and needing a reboot.

My first question is: how do we see how much disk space we've used and how much is remaining? Everyone with Passport, on AVS at least, knew about holding the "select" and "exit" buttons down for 5 seconds, then hitting "exit" again to get into the diagnostic area where you could scroll down and find the screen that gave you the information about your hard drive space down to the gigabyte. Does Navigator have a similar way to find this critical information out?

I like how Narrow is the default setting because it balances out sound between commercials and programs. This means that advertisers won't blast us out of the room on commercials that are 3x louder than the program. I think this is a good feature.

Some with external sound systems reported better success with changing this setting from Narrow to Normal. But if you don't have an external sound system, and want the volume to stay centralized on all types of programing on a channel, I would leave it on Narrow.

Jack
Yep, I notice narrow sounds no different than normal over the digital out to the receiver. Only with analog outputs. Don't use the RF out.

BTW, before, the box needed an add-on in the back for the RF bypass feature to work. Will bypass now work without needing the add-on?

Has anyone heard reports of any SARA divisions getting Navigatored yet? It's somewhat nice to know that the 8300HD plays better with Navigator than the HDC model, but thus far I've only noticed Passport systems being converted. I know our division was slated to have it by now, but that date has come and gone.

My first question is: how do we see how much disk space we've used and how much is remaining? Everyone with Passport, on AVS at least, knew about holding the "select" and "exit" buttons down for 5 seconds, then hitting "exit" again to get into the diagnostic area where you could scroll down and find the screen that gave you the information about your hard drive space down to the gigabyte. Does Navigator have a similar way to find this critical information out?
No idea about this with external drives but if you hit the List button, look under the left corner of the small video box and it has how full the drive is by percentage.

No idea about this with external drives but if you hit the List button, look under the left corner of the small video box and it has how full the drive is by percentage.

Yes, I know about that, but I want to get an exact number of GB used versus remaining like we could with Passport. It was an essential tool for me to manage my recordings. There is probably a set of diagnostic screens available if you just know how to get in there. I was wondering if any AVS members had figured out how to do it yet.

Has anyone heard reports of any SARA divisions getting Navigatored yet? It's somewhat nice to know that the 8300HD plays better with Navigator than the HDC model, but thus far I've only noticed Passport systems being converted. I know our division was slated to have it by now, but that date has come and gone.
I think Charlotte NC uses SARA and a couple today reported being Navigated last night.

Edited I was incorrect as pointed out by archiguy below. They use passport. Sorry.

I got the update to Navigator last night too. Don't seem too bad. Didn't loose any recorded shows or scheduled recordings (drive was only 1/3rd full). Just had to reset the Power On/Off settings like I had before. Although, now I can't jump forward or backwards in 15 minute increments anymore. Can't get in the System Diagnostic screen using 999 anymore like on Passport so no idea what Navigator version I have on my SA8300HD DVR (non-C).

Updated From:
ResApp Version: PASSPORT Echo 2.6.002
OS Version: PowerTV 6.14.74.1sp
Driver Version: 1
ResApp Date: Dec 21 2006
OS Date: May 17 2006
PowerKey: PKEY_3.9.3.2-p +dvrs3
PowerKey Date: May 8 2006

Not sure about the Audio Range setting of Narrow (default), Wide and Normal. My gut says Normal is correct for non-leveled audio but Narrow has the same volume level as with Passport. I think Narrow is suppose to equal the volume across channels reducing louder or softer channel volumes when changing channels. Can anybody shed some light on this setting.

Narrow compresses the dynamic range by making quieter noises louder in the same manner that NTSC dynamic range compressors operate. This dynamic range compression is needed in NTSC because the NTSC audio encoder would throw away quiet sounds. ATSC did not need this compression due to superior audio encoding, but some studios do it anyways. HDNet is one channel that does not perform this compression.

Normal passes the signal through as much as possible without processing besides digital to analog conversion and volume control if you are using RCA audio.

Wide performs an inverse distortion as what Narrow does, and is considered a deprecated feature left in to allow older versions of SARA to still run correctly. It makes loud sounds louder and quiet sounds quieter.

Narrow compresses the dynamic range by making quieter noises louder in the same manner that NTSC dynamic range compressors operate. This dynamic range compression is needed in NTSC because the NTSC audio encoder would throw away quiet sounds. ATSC did not need this compression due to superior audio encoding, but some studios do it anyways. HDNet is one channel that does not perform this compression.

Normal passes the signal through as much as possible without processing besides digital to analog conversion and volume control if you are using RCA audio.

Wide performs an inverse distortion as what Narrow does, and is considered a deprecated feature left in to allow older versions of SARA to still run correctly. It makes loud sounds louder and quiet sounds quieter.
Much appreciated jnv11. I just found and read the article on Digital LOUDNESS matching (http://broadcastengineering.com/audio/broadcasting_digital_loudness_matching/index.html) too explaining it. :)

I think Charlotte NC uses SARA and a couple today reported being Navigated last night.


As I mentioned in my posts above, Charlotte uses (used) Passport.

Thx for the correction archiguy. :)

I got the update to Navigator last night too. Don't seem too bad. Didn't loose any recorded shows or scheduled recordings (drive was only 1/3rd full). Just had to reset the Power On/Off settings like I had before. Although, now I can't jump forward or backwards in 15 minute increments anymore. Can't get in the System Diagnostic screen using 999 anymore like on Passport so no idea what Navigator version I have on my SA8300HD DVR (non-C).

Updated From:
ResApp Version: PASSPORT Echo 2.6.002
OS Version: PowerTV 6.14.74.1sp
Driver Version: 1
ResApp Date: Dec 21 2006
OS Date: May 17 2006
PowerKey: PKEY_3.9.3.2-p +dvrs3
PowerKey Date: May 8 2006

Not sure about the Audio Range setting of Narrow (default), Wide and Normal. My gut says Normal is correct for non-leveled audio but Narrow has the same volume level as with Passport. I think Narrow is suppose to equal the volume across channels reducing louder or softer channel volumes when changing channels. Can anybody shed some light on this setting.


15 minute jump still available. Press and hold Fast Forward or Rewind button on the cable remote and it will do the jump (forward or backward, respectively). Arrow keys no longer used for this function.

Note: it's a delayed reaction while holding the button - watch the screen and you'll see the indicator jump to the 15 minute points.

As I mentioned in my posts above, Charlotte uses (used) Passport.So, still no sightings of TW SARA systems being Navigatored?

Just to review,

What is the process for a "Warm Boot" (i.e not unplugging) a Navigator box?

Jack

Well, my worst fears have finally come true and I got "Navigatored" last night on one of my two SA8300's. Like most people have said, it seems to be a big step down from Passport. I have an expansion drive on the other not-yet-Navigatored box and I'm really scared about all the reports of the drive getting "lost" and needing a reboot.

My first question is: how do we see how much disk space we've used and how much is remaining? Everyone with Passport, on AVS at least, knew about holding the "select" and "exit" buttons down for 5 seconds, then hitting "exit" again to get into the diagnostic area where you could scroll down and find the screen that gave you the information about your hard drive space down to the gigabyte. Does Navigator have a similar way to find this critical information out?

I got navigated last night with an external drive and everything was retained (much to my surprise). As a matter of fact, I think I might like Navigator better than Passport, at least from what I've seen so far. The only thing I don't like so far is the look, but I'm sure I'll get used to that.

15 minute jump still available. Press and hold Fast Forward or Rewind button on the cable remote and it will do the jump (forward or backward, respectively). Arrow keys no longer used for this function.

Note: it's a delayed reaction while holding the button - watch the screen and you'll see the indicator jump to the 15 minute points.

Another thing I noticed while playing around with it is frame-by-frame advance/rewind is now gone. (With Passport, while in "pause" mode, you could hit the arrow keys to advance frame-by-frame or hold the arrow keys down to slo-mo advance or rewind.) On the other hand, it's now far easier to get into slow-motion mode by hitting "play" twice quickly. It was very difficult to do in Passport.

The guide is still limited to one week ahead, but it does load the days quickly.

Channel changing is extremely slow, as others have reported.

So, still no sightings of TW SARA systems being Navigatored?

I am in Greensboro NC on SARA 1.89.17.1.There are rumbleings that our area will soon be switched to Navigator.This is unoffical but got it thru a usual reliable source.Understand it is a version of Navigator designed for SARA users.Will post more if I get any more info or get Navigated.

Right now I have a SA8300HD with Passport, which is a total piece of crap but at least I'm able to transfer the unencrypted files to my computer and save some episodes of shows I like. We also got a SA8300HDC with Navigator and it's far worse than Passport, not only the software sucks (many times it won't record shows it's programmed to, even with plenty of disk space) but also I can't transfer any files to my computer.

I can't spend hours reading all posts in this thread, so I gotta ask, is anybody transferring shows from a SA8300HD that has Navigator in it? If I can't transfer the shows, my guess is that I will be switching to Directv. The only reason I stay with Time Warner is because of being able to transfer some shows to my computer, if they take that away, then obviously I will go to the provider that has a bigger selection of HD channels.

Just to review,

What is the process for a "Warm Boot" (i.e not unplugging) a Navigator box?

Jack

I will be exploring more functions with Navigator tonight. Like I said, I would give it a solid C right now. If it had "View This Channel Now" as an option to select on a future show, a C+. If Title Searches are restored, I would give it a B-. For now, those are the two main lacking features that are holding it back.

Jack

You man "keyword searches"--it searches titles just fine, and its searches even match VOD content, which is a handy improvement.

You man "keyword searches"--it searches titles just fine, and its searches even match VOD content, which is a handy improvement.

I agree. The vod content included in the search was a plus for me when I was a Navigator subscriber. Something that the previous version of the TWC guide did not provide.

What is the process for a "Warm Boot" (i.e not unplugging) a Navigator box?

On the box itself, Vol+ Vol- and Info at the same time.

I have two questions.
One, how do I find my software version? I am in Kansas City Time warner cable and I did the select button down arrow thing and see a 9 page diags screen but can not see the software version there. What am I doing wrong?

Also, the person at the cable store showed me the option to select which time you want a series to record, like a show that is on twice a day. But I swear i don't have that option on my 8300hd. Any ideas why?>

Thanks!!
Sheila

Just got Navigator on my SA8300HD today or yesterday. Changed all my scheduled recordings to record ALL TIMES so changing back was a bit of a pain. One happy surprise is that the live pause/reverse/forward now works with my eSATA drive!

The GUIDE works fast except when loading NEW DATA. FIND SHOWS is still a pain compared to Passport.

The jury is still out.

Another thing I noticed while playing around with it is frame-by-frame advance/rewind is now gone. (With Passport, while in "pause" mode, you could hit the arrow keys to advance frame-by-frame or hold the arrow keys down to slo-mo advance or rewind.) On the other hand, it's now far easier to get into slow-motion mode by hitting "play" twice quickly. It was very difficult to do in Passport.

The guide is still limited to one week ahead, but it does load the days quickly.

Channel changing is extremely slow, as others have reported.


Yes, I miss frame advance, Maybe holding down FF and REW (like how the new 15 min jump works) will work. The Slow Motion works better because you only need to press PLAY once, not twice like before.

Mark

Sorry, frame advance is gone.

With all of the negativity about the guide I am SHOCKED that the issues that I am experiencing are overall good. The problems are not a big deal. Now, for the rest of the country or different box models or configurations, who knows? I can only speak from my own experience.

One glitch that I found is that when doing Keyboard searches, episodes that are on multiple times will often be seen 2x in the guide, but with different headings. Let me give you an example. Let's say that I do a keyboard Search for Leave it to Beaver, and it is on TV Land at I don't know 12:30 pm on 4/21. But, let's say that Beaver is on a different channel also at 12:30. What I find is that after hitting select to view all listings of a title, one tier will say Leave it to Beaver at 12:30 and give the channel number (TV Land, 61) and the description. A second entry (always directly above or below the first) ALSO shows Leave it to Beaver at 12:30 but does NOT give a channel number. I have no idea which one to record. But than, I look at the Listings and find out that the '97 LITB MOVIE is also on the schedule. So, is Navigator confused with two different shows that have the exact same name?

The other thing is that although I don't use series manager, no one seems to know how Navigator defines a "New" episode? Is it considered as a first-run, or the first time it is shown in the guide, or the first time it is offered for the 7x day period contingent on how far "Loading Data" goes from day to day?

The Keyboard shows WAY TOO MUCH information at once. It was easier to do a B, Find Shows, and than narrow my theme down. Once you know the subcategory of a theme, searching isn't bad at all. If you look for Movies and All Movies, it's going to take a while because your search is much too general. TWC is trying to consolidate a lot of info in one place. But I think the question is, how can you narrow down general searches? The answer is to somehow make title searches more efficient.

I can use page+/- for very quick scroll. Guide data disappears during the scroll, but comes back quick. I heard some boxes have trouble with this feature. What I am noticing is not so much a slower guide, but scrolling that does not have as "Smooth a feel to it." Passport guides along. Navigator is more jerky, go, jerky, go. You don't smoothly progress from cell to cell in the Guide's grid on Navigator. You don't see the type of pleasant "shift" from one time block to the next. Things just appear without the smoothness of the old version. But it's only about 1-1.5 seconds longer if that. I wouldn't say the guide is slower, just more jerky in going from cell to cell. But this is not a big problem.

Things look good overall, so I am going to give my current Navigator experience a C+.

Jack

I have two questions.
One, how do I find my software version? I am in Kansas City Time warner cable and I did the select button down arrow thing and see a 9 page diags screen but can not see the software version there. What am I doing wrong?



Can you please expand on that method of getting into the diagnostic area? Notice my post just above where I ask this very question. Thanks.

Things look good overall, so I am going to give my current Navigator experience a C+.


A C+ rating just isn't good enough for the A+ prices we're paying.

I had 4 8300HDC boxes with Navigator before I was upgraded back to an 8300HD with Passport. I can live with the C+ features but not the F- stability I experienced with the HDC and Navigator. Passport has been rock solid for me.

Jim

Can you please expand on that method of getting into the diagnostic area? Notice my post just above where I ask this very question. Thanks.

Software Diagnostics (9 pages):
On the remote, hold Select until the mail icon flashes and then press the down arrow.

Hardware Diagnostics (16 pages):
On the STB, hold both the Vol+ and Vol- buttons until the mail icon flashes, then press Ch+.

There may be other methods ... this is just what I use

A C+ rating just isn't good enough for the A+ prices we're paying.

I had 4 8300HDC boxes with Navigator before I was upgraded back to an 8300HD with Passport. I can live with the C+ features but not the F- stability I experienced with the HDC and Navigator. Passport has been rock solid for me.

Jim

So did you get "Navigatored" the other night on your 8300HD? I am in Cary as well and now my 8300HD and my 8300HDC have Navigator. I am not too upset with it though.

Everything works well except I use to block out all channels in the 200's that were not HD. I could hit the up or down channel buttons and skip the SD channels. I know I can do favorites for them and then use the favorite button but that is only in one direction(Channel up). Is there a way to basically delete channels with Navigator?

I can live with the C+ features but not the F- stability I experienced with the HDC and Navigator.

Since being upgraded to 2.4.9 a few weeks ago, I have yet to need to reboot. It's been MUCH more stable with that particular version.

The only real issue I've got with it now is that it does not always synch with the TV when I start both (using an HDMI connection). I often need to turn the TV off and back on again to get a picture. Probably about half the time.

I'm still trying to figure out all the madness going on with these boxes... but I just wanted to report that I am in Central Florida with Brighthouse Networks, have a SA 8300 HDC running what I believe to be Mystro Navigator and at around 2 AM it shut down and ran a very long upgrade to the CableCard.

Can't notice any differences though... but I figured I'd share for whatever it's worth.

I was checking the diag pages on my 8300HDC and found that SDV is now enabled. Word is that BHN Central FL is supposed to be testing SDV beginning in May with deployment around Aug. I guess that means BHN will be pushing navigator out to non 'C' boxes within the next 4 months.

I need to double check the version of navigator on my HDC as I think it's a 2.4.9 version.

I have the new Navigator on a SA 8240HDC DVR in Columbus, Ohio. I have a question - with the old Passport, I could choose to record a series and choose (new) or (new and repeats) AND choose a time (at this time only). On the new Navigator, it is missing the (at this time only) choice. Is it hiding someplace else?

For example, I used to have Spongebob recorded for my kids once a day at, say, 3:00pm no matter if it was a repeat or new. That way we had only one episode they could watch every day - my kids didn't care if it was new or a repeat. Now without the time choice, if I choose (new) I get 0 Spongebobs per day or if I choose (new and repeats) I get like 6 Spongebobs a day.

Thanks.

I have the new Navigator on a SA 8240HDC DVR in Columbus, Ohio. I have a question - with the old Passport, I could choose to record a series and choose (new) or (new and repeats) AND choose a time (at this time only). On the new Navigator, it is missing the (at this time only) choice. Is it hiding someplace else?

For example, I used to have Spongebob recorded for my kids once a day at, say, 3:00pm no matter if it was a repeat or new. That way we had only one episode they could watch every day - my kids didn't care if it was new or a repeat. Now without the time choice, if I choose (new) I get 0 Spongebobs per day or if I choose (new and repeats) I get like 6 Spongebobs a day.

Thanks.


If you go to the program at the time you want recorded in the future and hit sel and series options you can choose new only and go down to all showings and hit side arrow and it will give you just the time you want as a second choice.

Roy

Is there a way to basically delete channels with Navigator?

No, and this has been a major issue that I brought up before. Satellite has had options for adding/removing channels or showing just what you sub or just HD versions of the same channel for a long time now. This should have been added to Navigator seeing as how it is an "upgrade".

For people using HDMI cables and having sync issues: I switched back to Component and resolved the issue. The 8300's are very flaky with HDCP and it got annoying to have to reset my AVR every time I changed channels. If the would scrap the HDCP, I'd bet that the HDMI issues would go away.

For people using HDMI cables and having sync issues: I switched back to Component and resolved the issue. The 8300's are very flaky with HDCP and it got annoying to have to reset my AVR every time I changed channels. If the would scrap the HDCP, I'd bet that the HDMI issues would go away.But you know that scrapping HDCP won't happen. Also, the HDCP issues are partially due to your TV as well. My Sony A3000 is rock solid with HDMI.

Dang, there's two features I'm really going to miss. Keyword search I and my dad use a lot to search for shows by actors names. Another is when looking through the guide and I find a show I can't watch or record at that time I would press C button and it would instantly show me all the future airings of it for me to set to record. Can't do that in Navigator. You have to instead do a title search and type out the title name. :(

15 minute jump still available. Press and hold Fast Forward or Rewind button on the cable remote and it will do the jump (forward or backward, respectively). Arrow keys no longer used for this function.

Note: it's a delayed reaction while holding the button - watch the screen and you'll see the indicator jump to the 15 minute points.
Much appreciated humdinger70. :)

But you know that scrapping HDCP won't happen. Also, the HDCP issues are partially due to your TV as well. My Sony A3000 is rock solid with HDMI.


I agree, but I have seen too many issues with HDCP on various brands of sets. HDCP is a joke IMHO. I have no problem using component.

I agree, but I have seen too many issues with HDCP on various brands of sets. HDCP is a joke IMHO. I have no problem using component.I have seven devices from seven different manufacturers connected via HDMI (LCD panel, AVR, HDMI switch, DVR, 2 game consoles and an HD DVD player from Mitsubishi, Onkyo, Belkin, Sony, Microsoft, TiVo and Toshiba) and I haven't seen any of them fail to work properly together in the year that I've had that set up and use it daily.

Two HDMI devices can have HDMI handshaking problems that have nothing to do with HDCP. The problem is that once an HDMI licensed manufacturer has had one device qualified by a 3rd party lab, he can thereafter "self-certify" subsequent HDMI products. It's a recipe for interoperability failure.

I just got the letter informing our family of the switchover to Navigator. I called tech support about this and the man at the other end of the line stated that the switchover will happen in the next couple of weeks, and that it is being done per area.

If anything goes wrong, I might post about it because I have a major project to complete for my master's degree.

I do not know which will be better on the eyes. I know that Passport Echo looks good, but its font is too tall and thin. Navigator has an ugly GUI, but the font shown in the Cary Towne Center kiosk is much easier to read than Passport Echo's font.

Has anyone tried to hook a keyboard to the USB port to type out show names in the title search of either Passport Echo or Navigator? If so, does it work? I have no USB keyboard now, but I think that it would be a good thing to have once we get one.

Hi All,

Well I guess that I have now joined the group. In my case, the STB is a lowly SA8000 DVR.

The changes from Passport are horrible.

1) Changing channels in the program guide is very slow.

2) It appears that entering the "entire" number no longer helps. It 011 as opposed to 11.

3) Many features seem to have dissappeared from the DVR. For example, pause is canceled if PIP is swapped. Maybe I'm sort of nuts but I used this feature to watch tow shows at once so to speak. With passport, I could pause the program, swap the channel using PIP swap, watch the new show, hit pause, then swap back to the previously paused program. With the new Mystro, you need to re-wind back to where you left off since pause is released when PIP is swapped. I suppose that many might think this is not a big deal but when you get used to doing this it is a very big deal!

4)Rewind intermittantly jumps to the start of the stored video. This is a real PITA since you now need to FF back to where you were.

5) Scheduled recording got all messed up. Not only did all previously scheduled shows get changed from delet if necessary to save until deleted but a number of single instances of previously recorded shows seemed to be changed to "record series" This filled the HD pretty quickly and caused the DVR not to record scheduled programs since the HD was full. Glad I finally noticed the HD capacity remaining display. Real pita to go back and change everything.

6) PIP swap works differently if PIP is actually displayed or not. For example, if the PIP inset is not being displayed, changing the channel on the viewed channel causes the previously viewed channel to be changed to the alternate PIP channel.

7) If the PIP inset is displayed, changing the channel on the viewed channel only changes that channel. The channel for the PIP insert remains the same. The consequence of 6 and 7 is that in order to simply change one of the channels and be able to swap back to the previous PIP, uyou need to make sure that you turn on the PIP. You cannot just swap back and forth. It's madding if you have used the feature with Passport.

Of course TWC has been of minimal help. I asked for the old software back and the response was no way. They claimed that they were aware of the issues but had no idea when they might be resolved. I's so hard to figure out how I can find things like this in 5 minutes and TW still released it anyway. Knock on wood, so far my Pioneer boxes have not been Navigatored.

The Pasport DVR was pretty dismal when first released. It was very slow changing channels etc. They fixed that in about a year.

I suppose that a big part of my problem was my expectations. I thought that finally TW would have a competitive guide. What they did seems to primarily be a re-hash of the old guide but slower and organized differently just for the sake of change.

Has any one had these same issues on the HD DVR boxes?

Larry

Just an update from last week when I first got Navigator.
Last Fri., I had the set on while watching TV (actually on computer with TV as background noise). I had the same channel on the whole time. External drive was hooked up to the SA8500HDC. When I tried to change the channel the box was frozen and the only way out was a hard reboot.
I "assumed" that the system would buffer to the drive with the most space like it did with Passport. Here again I can only speculate that this isn't true and I was a victim of external drive going to sleep and crashing the unit as reported by others.
All the shows I had recorded Thur. and Fri. were lost. The system log stated it was unable to record (code 13) these shows. The strange thing is I had actually watched 3 of these recorded shows that it claimed it was unable to record. Luckily I was able to go online and catch the others that were totally lost.
I disconnected the external drive and haven't seen any problems with recording and playback since then (Knock Wood).
Still not that crazy about the user interface and some of it's quirks, but at least I haven't lost any recordings. My biggest gripe now is with the joke for a hard drive they have in the box. This thing fills up so fast that you can't wait to watch at your leisure. That's why I'm still looking at getting Directv next month.


Another note: My mother also got updated on her SA8300HD. Hers took the update OK ( not like it killed mine so I have the HDC now). We're off the same headend so what affects one should affect the other.
I tried accessing the menus for both the 9 and 16 Page diagnostics and it didn't work on hers. For jollies I tried the old(Passport) way. I got a 28 page list. From what I could figure her version is 2.4.2-92.
There are obvious differences between our two units(HD vs. HDC). So when people start comparing we've got the apples/oranges problem. Not just the difference between markets but in the same market.

While in her 28 page diagnostic, I noticed it still listed hard drive space and free space like passport did. In fact my first impression was how similar this looked to Passport's diagnostic. I've added this last tidbit becuase someone in this forum or another asked about this feature.

Sorry about the length of this post, but I'll probably be on a Directv forum in the near future.

MDR

So did you get "Navigatored" the other night on your 8300HD? I am in Cary as well and now my 8300HD and my 8300HDC have Navigator. I am not too upset with it though.

Everything works well except I use to block out all channels in the 200's that were not HD. I could hit the up or down channel buttons and skip the SD channels. I know I can do favorites for them and then use the favorite button but that is only in one direction(Channel up). Is there a way to basically delete channels with Navigator?

No, I've not been Navigatored yet, and no email or phone call from TWC yet. I can live with the inadequacies of Navigator as long as it's stable. In fact, I'm looking forward to getting Caller ID back.

However, if it reboots 2 or 3 times a day like it did before I will be contacting city hall (again) and the NC attorney general's office. I won't go to satellite and I'm going to make TWC make it right.

Jim

No, and this has been a major issue that I brought up before. Satellite has had options for adding/removing channels or showing just what you sub or just HD versions of the same channel for a long time now. This should have been added to Navigator seeing as how it is an "upgrade".

For people using HDMI cables and having sync issues: I switched back to Component and resolved the issue. The 8300's are very flaky with HDCP and it got annoying to have to reset my AVR every time I changed channels. If the would scrap the HDCP, I'd bet that the HDMI issues would go away.

Not all HDMI issues are HDCP-related; some of them are definitely Navigator-related. I had no such issues whatsoever for 6 months or so with 2.4.5_4 version, and as soon as I got "upgraded" to 2.4.9_3, the thing gets stuck in 480i (and in the right upper corner) every so often. And that's with the same TV, same cables and the same 8300HDC box.

OK ... now I'm really PO'd! Got home this evening with the intention of watching Survivor and Eli Stone that were set up to record (the series) ... only to find that they were NOT recorded! When I look at the Recording Log, I see the same "message" for both shows:

Will not record because the channel is not available (2)

What the F*** does that mean? And why wasn't the channel I'm paying over $100 a month for not available?:mad:

That is an error, John. I mean I'm not trying to be a smart ass - when mine has done that in the past, it was wrong, i.e. their crappy system screwing up. I used to get that error and another one about a recording conflict, neither of which was true. I would always reboot after that but I don't really know what caused or fixed the problem. Mine has not had either error for a while (knock on wood).

-Marty

That is an error, John. I mean I'm not trying to be a smart ass - when mine has done that in the past, it was wrong, i.e. their crappy system screwing up. I used to get that error and another one about a recording conflict, neither of which was true. I would always reboot after that but I don't really know what caused or fixed the problem. Mine has not had either error for a while (knock on wood).

-Marty

Thanks for the sympathy! I've never noticed that error before ... just one more reason NOT to stay with Time Warner. When I lived in Florida ... had a high def DVR from Scientific Atlanta ... and NONE of the problems.

I really don't want to sign up for a 2-year contract to get Direct TV ... but if this crap continues, I very well may bite the bullet!

Another thing I noticed while playing around with it is frame-by-frame advance/rewind is now gone. (With Passport, while in "pause" mode, you could hit the arrow keys to advance frame-by-frame or hold the arrow keys down to slo-mo advance or rewind.) On the other hand, it's now far easier to get into slow-motion mode by hitting "play" twice quickly. It was very difficult to do in Passport.

The guide is still limited to one week ahead, but it does load the days quickly.

Channel changing is extremely slow, as others have reported.
On mine, if I am watching a show off the DVR (don't know if it works for "live" video), if I hit the Play button once it will go into slow motion mode. If I then hit Pause it will stop and I can press FF or RW to single step forward or back respectively.

I am on v 2.4.9_3 (which we just received less than 24 hours ago in NE Ohio).

-Marty

...
I really don't want to sign up for a 2-year contract to get Direct TV ... but if this crap continues, I very well may bite the bullet!
I understand. I can't believe these companies expect people to make a long-term commitment before they even know if they can make their services work, let alone make it work winter, spring, summer, fall, leaves on trees, thunder storms, snow, etc.

And we're stuck. We get to choose between one piece of crap and another.

I swear if I was a billionaire I would start a GOOD cable company and take all the customers away from these idiots and Cox, who I understand to be just as bad. There seems to be a tremendous opportunity for improvement, but why should they when there are no good competitors? Kind of like the airlines. Kind of like the presidential candidates, too, come to think of it. I guess this is the American way for everything now. The free market at work. Freedom to choose among a bunch of crappy & essentially similar choices. :rolleyes:

-Marty

Hi All,

Well I guess that I have now joined the group. In my case, the STB is a lowly SA8000 DVR.

The changes from Passport are horrible.

1) Changing channels in the program guide is very slow.

2) It appears that entering the "entire" number no longer helps. It 011 as opposed to 11.

...

Larry
Ours increased to 4 digits - try 0011.

If that doesn't work, try 11 and then hit the Select button (like an Enter key).

-Marty

I was checking the diag pages on my 8300HDC and found that SDV is now enabled. Word is that BHN Central FL is supposed to be testing SDV beginning in May with deployment around Aug. I guess that means BHN will be pushing navigator out to non 'C' boxes within the next 4 months.

I need to double check the version of navigator on my HDC as I think it's a 2.4.9 version.
I have version 2.4.9_3 and also think SDV has been enabled (from what I could understand from the diag screen).

My question is... what is SDV? :o

Hi Marty,

Thanks very much.

4 digits speeds up changing the channel that is being watched. Great!

Interestingly, the guide no longer accepts leading zeros like it did yesterday (I thought) but using select as an enter key does work. That is, 11 Select, changes the guide position right away. Select also speeds up channel changing. Now I wonder why no one at TW seemed to know that. LOL

Nothing like being consistent I always say.

Now if only I could figure out how to get the PIP stuff to work as before I would be happy as a pig in @$#%#$^

The box does not seem to have the re-boot issues I have heard about. It does take a long time to boot and for some reason the AC outlet is not enabled until the boot is completed so you cannot see the OSD while booting without plugging the TV into a different outlet. Humm, maybe there is another setting someplace.

Larry

Ours increased to 4 digits - try 0011.

If that doesn't work, try 11 and then hit the Select button (like an Enter key).

-Marty

My question is... what is SDV? :o

SDV is Switched Digital Video. It is a delivery system for the video in which channels are "switched" on and off at the node. It is basically a necessary means of digital cable in order to deliver more high def content. How it works is that any channels utilizing SDV are not always on. They are are "switched" when a set top calls for them. It is an efficient way of using bandwidth as HD channels grow on cable and offers an almost unlimited capacity. The down side is by using this system, you are stuck using the MSO's set top box. It doesn't work with Tivo (yet). How that explains it a little better for you.

HERE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched_digital_video) is an informational link on the more technical aspects of it.

OK ... now I'm really PO'd! Got home this evening with the intention of watching Survivor and Eli Stone that were set up to record (the series) ... only to find that they were NOT recorded! When I look at the Recording Log, I see the same "message" for both shows:

Will not record because the channel is not available (2)

What the F*** does that mean? And why wasn't the channel I'm paying over $100 a month for not available?:mad:

This is known issue, you can search this tread for "channel not available". Most likely a hardware issue. On my first 8300HDC I started getting this error after a few days, and it would happen frequently; then I exchanged the box for the same kind, and in 6 months it hasn't happened again. There is a large percentage of these boxes that are not good. Also, there are degrees of how bad they are - some would drive you crazy with reboots, some would "only" be flaky and skip recordings sometimes, etc.. You can try exchanging until you get a stable one (it may take several tries).
Another thing to check is signal strength - the box is very sensitive to it (much more than a typical TV, for example), so if the strength is not right, the box behaves flaky.

This is known issue, you can search this tread for "channel not available".

I tried "channel not available" ... channel not available ... channel+not+available ... etc., but I'm getting the same 499 occurrences. That is, all occurrences of "channel" OR "not" OR "available"!

Is there a way to format the search to require ALL 3 words together?

The box does not seem to have the re-boot issues I have heard about.

When I first got my 8300HDC in January, I had to reboot it all the time for any number of reasons (audio loss, channel loss, lockups, etc.). I was close to switching to DirecTV, but since sometime in February or March, I haven't had to reboot it.

I still occasionally get the issue where the picture gets stuck in the upper-right corner, but a quick change of the channel to something non-HD (like News14) and back is enough to fix it.

One of my minor gripes about the guide is that, if I don't know the channel number, but know I want to get into higher ranges quickly, if I enter a channel that doesn't exist it won't jump, just display the ????. I would really like it in guide mode to jump to the nearest channel.

I discovered the issue with pausing and the PIP last weekend. I was watching the race and wanted to flip back and forth between something I had recorded during commercials. I wanted to pause the DVR and swap back to the race, but it would start playing everytime I swapped. Pretty annoying.

I've also had it refuse to pause live TV and basically refuse (it would pause for a half second, then start playing again) despite having over half the DVR drive available. That was a month or so ago, so it might've been fixed in an update.

SDV is Switched Digital Video. It is a delivery system for the video in which channels are "switched" on and off at the node. It is basically a necessary means of digital cable in order to deliver more high def content. How it works is that any channels utilizing SDV are not always on. They are are "switched" when a set top calls for them. It is an efficient way of using bandwidth as HD channels grow on cable and offers an almost unlimited capacity. The down side is by using this system, you are stuck using the MSO's set top box. It doesn't work with Tivo (yet). How that explains it a little better for you.

HERE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched_digital_video) is an informational link on the more technical aspects of it.
Thank you very much for the information... still learning about the whole HD thing.

If I can be of any help, let me know.

This is known issue, you can search this tread for "channel not available". Most likely a hardware issue. On my first 8300HDC I started getting this error after a few days, and it would happen frequently; then I exchanged the box for the same kind, and in 6 months it hasn't happened again. There is a large percentage of these boxes that are not good. Also, there are degrees of how bad they are - some would drive you crazy with reboots, some would "only" be flaky and skip recordings sometimes, etc.. You can try exchanging until you get a stable one (it may take several tries).
Another thing to check is signal strength - the box is very sensitive to it (much more than a typical TV, for example), so if the strength is not right, the box behaves flaky.

I just got off the phone with a TW rep who told me that my issues with (1) the "channel not available" error in the Recording Log, and (2) not being able to pause "live TV" (because the box had quit caching the currently-viewed program) ... are BOTH due to a failure in loading the "Program Guide"!

I asked how I would be able to determine if such a failure had occurred, and he said "you won't be able to pause live TV" ... "and you won't be able to record a program you're watching" (which, in hindsight, I believe I've experienced in the past).

He scheduled a tech to come out tomorrow afternoon to "check things out" ... but I'm not holding my breath on a permanent solution.

I asked how I would be able to determine if such a failure had occurred, and he said "you won't be able to pause live TV" ... "and you won't be able to record a program you're watching" (which, in hindsight, I believe I've experienced in the past).

That is actually completely correct. Congratulations! You found a rep who actually knows something. ;)

The other clue is while watching a show, the info bar no longer is yellow for the time period you had been watching. Once I see this happen, it's reboot time. Fortunately is has very rarely happened to me. The last time it did, I went to the diagnostics and had 30+ Pod Count failures (or something like that). And the count was increasing as I was staring at it. The whole box actually died shortly thereafter and had to be replaced.

Now talk about really annoying... I am an NHL CenterIce subscriber. Twice I had to change boxes (once when switching to HD and the other when the box died) and both times I lost the subscription and it was incredibly painful to get it back. Why? How hard can it be? After the first time, I had to make multiple trips to the TWC office (once per month) because they started billing me all over again (I'd already made 3 out of 4 payments) and they couldn't stop it. It was incredibly frustrating for something that seems trivial and is now made worse by the frequency with which these boxes appear to need replacing.

robo, TWC has the absolute WORST billing system/dept. I have ever encountered. They can't get things straight no matter how simple. My father signed up under a promotional package and it took SIX months before his bill was properly adjusted and credited. Even when we went down to the local office with a copy of the agreement they claimed they couldn't do anything. I was trying to explain that we had everything in writing and how hard could it be to apply the credit or take the extra charge off the bill?!?!?

Back to Navigator, I'm just glad to hear reports of significant improvement. I really want to get input from a converted SARA system to see how that version of Navigator performs!

That is actually completely correct. Congratulations! You found a rep who actually knows something. ;)

The other clue is while watching a show, the info bar no longer is yellow for the time period you had been watching. Once I see this happen, it's reboot time. Fortunately is has very rarely happened to me. The last time it did, I went to the diagnostics and had 30+ Pod Count failures (or something like that). And the count was increasing as I was staring at it. The whole box actually died shortly thereafter and had to be replaced.

Well ... now my picture on the hi def channel I was watching suddenly went BLACK ... then a few minutes later it came back, but was "frozen". When I pressed INFO, the progress bar appeared to indicate that it was still "recording", but I didn't want to try and rewind to see if that would "un-freeze" the picture.

So I called TW again ... and this time the guy I spoke with was 99.99% certain that my problems were related to the fact that the Output Resolution was set to 1080i AND 720p. He asked what type of TV I had ... and I said Samsung 1080p ... and he had me un-select 720p, rebooted the box ... and assured me that this would fix all my problems!

Do the TW folks ever come up with the same solution? And more importantly, are any of them ever knowledgable enough to supply the correct answer?!

Good Navigator News!

On my old Passport software, I would get these freezing screens for a few seconds where there was nothing on them. (Channel 14 in my Metro Milwaukee area did this all the time.) It always showed a blank screen because it was a local Govt. Access channel with nothing on it. In Navigator, NO FREEZE up when going to and from that channel. Who would have expected that?

Jack

Just got the Navigator flyer in my mail box.

Same propaganda as usual, except I noticed they changed the blurb to read "7 days of program guide info" not the inaccurate "two weeks" they have listed at twcnc.com.

Nice to see that two years after Diana from TWC was on AVS, raving about the two weeks of guide info that Passport didn't have, Navigator still can't get it to work. :rolleyes:

...One of my minor gripes about the guide is that, if I don't know the channel number, but know I want to get into higher ranges quickly, if I enter a channel that doesn't exist it won't jump, just display the ????. I would really like it in guide mode to jump to the nearest channel.
...
Me too. It's been a while and I am starting to forget the specifics, but it seems to me that in Passport we had a button that would page through the guide by 100 (go to the channel nearest the next multiple of 100). This was also a fast way to move through the guide. I know of no equivalent in Navigator.

-Marty

I have Time Warner Mid-Ohio HD-DVR service with a Scientific Atlanta 8300 that has Navigator. Today, I was watching other channels perfectly fine at first, and then I wanted to watch SportsTime Ohio HD. It came up a black screen with audio. Well that wasn’t right. I figured maybe it was the channel and I flipped to another HD channel and it worked fine. Flipped back to STO-HD and nothing this time, not even audio.

It should be noted that in recent days, STO HD would periodically freeze for like five seconds and then resume. It was doing this quite frequently. The SD channel never froze but the HD channel did. I thought it was a STO issue. Now I’m not so sure.

I figured I’d do a soft reboot of the cable box around 1 p.m. Maybe something’s not right. I left it off for 10 minutes as I took a shower, came back and plugged it in.

It turns on, I get that typical Mystro screen. On the box, it says E-13. It usually says L-13 and counts down, but it says E-13. I left it on and the E-13 never changed. Eventually the blue Mystro screen went blank and I had a black screen with E-13 on the box.

Unplugged and re-plugged the box. Same result.

I didn’t have much time to deal with it anymore due to having to go to work.

I come home around 1:30 a.m. and plug it in. As soon as the mystro screen went to L-13, I timed it on my stopwatch. Two minutes later, the box says E-13 again. And so it stays there. And so I'm about to call Time Warner Cable customer service just to go through that typical spiel of doing everything I already have done in my power and play customer service musical chairs.

Yeah, I know, some of these issues have been discussed in this thread. Trust me, I spent hours reading all 1000-some replies in the general SA8300 thread and near the end found a link to this thread. And some searches of this thread saw similar issues. I suppose if I go back and do those searches and read I can get some tips.

I guess if anything else I’m venting my problems. A "join the club" type thing when it comes to my stress on the topic, I suppose, but nonetheless venting in a safe environment.

Guys,

I created a new thread for Navigator SPECIFIC to a 5-point wish list. (Go to HDTV Recorders, the main forum and than you will see my Navigator wish list.) I hope the mod/admins approve of me creating this new thread as this general Navigator thread is getting too cluttered. The Wish list, I would like to only address the 5 biggest issues that still need to be addressed with Navigator. The other issues relating to problems or concerns about Navigator, we can keep in this thread Through this list of concerns, once a consensus is reached, we can contact our local TWC offices. I think up to 5 points are better than 30. More than 5 you start to split hairs between major issues and personal preferences. Thousands of people requesting a majority of 5 things is better than 1000 people requesting 30 things all at once. So, I invite you to check out my new Navigator Wish List Topic and come up with the five most important things that Navigator needs in that thread. Let's study this list over time to understand whether or not there is a consensus on bug issues. I think this will help out many people. Thank you for your help!

Jack

"Satch Man"

I have Time Warner Mid-Ohio HD-DVR service with a Scientific Atlanta 8300 that has Navigator. Today, I was watching other channels perfectly fine at first, and then I wanted to watch SportsTime Ohio HD. It came up a black screen with audio. Well that wasn’t right. I figured maybe it was the channel and I flipped to another HD channel and it worked fine. Flipped back to STO-HD and nothing this time, not even audio.

It should be noted that in recent days, STO HD would periodically freeze for like five seconds and then resume. It was doing this quite frequently. The SD channel never froze but the HD channel did. I thought it was a STO issue. Now I’m not so sure.I (fortunately) don't have Navigator, so I might be off on this - but your problem sure sounds more like a signal strength (or perhaps signal ingress) issue than anything else. The reason I say this is that it works fine on some channels and not on others. I suspect that the problem channels are at a higher QAM frequency (not necessarily related to where they show up on the guide) and the signal levels might be a it low. The other potential issue (ingress) is where external signals (for example a local UHF channel) may be leaking into cable in your neighborhood (or even house) and interfering with a specific QAM channel. TW normally puts two HD channels on a QAM, so if you are only having this problem with two HD channels that could well be the cause.

In either event, the bottom line is to have a TW tech visit and check things out. There could have been things happen to the cable recently in your neighborhood that are now causing the problem.

Well ... now my picture on the hi def channel I was watching suddenly went BLACK ... then a few minutes later it came back, but was "frozen". When I pressed INFO, the progress bar appeared to indicate that it was still "recording", but I didn't want to try and rewind to see if that would "un-freeze" the picture.

The kids and I were watching Doctor Who last night and the screen froze literally ever 10 minutes or so. Channeling up and back would fix it but it was nonetheless very annoying. I'd not ever had that happen before. Since we were recording, I didn't want to mess with the box, but did after the show was over and no problems since. Really odd.

I have Time Warner Mid-Ohio HD-DVR service with a Scientific Atlanta 8300 that has Navigator.

CJ - Can you confim if you have an SA8300HD or an SA8300HDC ?

I wasn't aware that any SA8300HD models were Navigatored in the Mid-Ohio region yet.

I (fortunately) don't have Navigator, so I might be off on this - but your problem sure sounds more like a signal strength (or perhaps signal ingress) issue than anything else. The reason I say this is that it works fine on some channels and not on others. I suspect that the problem channels are at a higher QAM frequency (not necessarily related to where they show up on the guide) and the signal levels might be a it low. The other potential issue (ingress) is where external signals (for example a local UHF channel) may be leaking into cable in your neighborhood (or even house) and interfering with a specific QAM channel. TW normally puts two HD channels on a QAM, so if you are only having this problem with two HD channels that could well be the cause.

In either event, the bottom line is to have a TW tech visit and check things out. There could have been things happen to the cable recently in your neighborhood that are now causing the problem.

I'll probably have to call them and get it checked out. It took forever and a day to get the box rebooted. Thank goodness I was passing the time unplugging/replugging it in with Guitar Hero III.

Maybe they've done something recently and it screwed things up, like you suggested. At least it's not the box going bad, if that's the case.


CJ - Can you confim if you have an SA8300HD or an SA8300HDC ?

I wasn't aware that any SA8300HD models were Navigatored in the Mid-Ohio region yet.

It's the SA8300HDC.

I thought I might change the tempo and give some positives on Navigator. After suffering with Passport on the 8300HD over the past few years Navigator has been much more stable. I haven't missed a program or a series yet. The conflict resolution is far superior. If due to a conflict I cancel a program that is in a series it finds it later and records it without any intervention from me. One issue not mentioned is amount of programs saved. With Passport I needed to reboot often to regain the lost sectors, this is not true with Navigator. The amount of space used is easily seen in Navigator, much harder to find in Passport. Although the HDD is the same it seems to save more programs
While certainly not perfect Navigator is a vast improvement over Passport

I thought I might change the tempo and give some positives on Navigator. After suffering with Passport on the 8300HD over the past few years Navigator has been much more stable. I haven't missed a program or a series yet. The conflict resolution is far superior. If due to a conflict I cancel a program that is in a series it finds it later and records it without any intervention from me. One issue not mentioned is amount of programs saved. With Passport I needed to reboot often to regain the lost sectors, this is not true with Navigator. The amount of space used is easily seen in Navigator, much harder to find in Passport. Although the HDD is the same it seems to save more programs
While certainly not perfect Navigator is a vast improvement over Passport

WOW! You don't happen to work for Time Warner do you? :D That's the first account where I've heard some say Navigator was better than Passport! What flaws and or bugs are you seeing with your version? Do you experience the resolution glitch where the picture gets stuck in the corner? Any problems with HDMI? Just wondering if you got a newer version that addresses these issues. Hopefully TWC gets it together and delivers a more complete guide solution. As long as they keep adding HD and give me a good, stable and reliable Navigator they will keep my business.

While certainly not perfect Navigator is a vast improvement over Passport

:eek: In no way shape or form, in any area, is Navigator an improvement over Passport. To address some of those issues, the percentage used space indicator is nowhere near as precise as being able to get into diagnostics and seeing, down the single gigabyte, just how much space is free and used on the disk - much more useful. To address another, I never had a program dropped with Passport, but several of my series recordings were dropped when I got 'gatored. I never had a crash with Passport, but have been having them on a daily basis with Navigator. My expansion drive works seamlessly with Passport; don't know what will happen when that DVR (still on Passport) gets 'gatored but some of the initial reports are kind of frightening.

I currently have both, each on a different SA8300HD, so I can see on a daily basis just how inferior, in every respect, Navigator is to Passport. You sir, are in a minority of one. And there's always one in every crowd. ;)

:eek: In no way shape or form, in any area, is Navigator an improvement over Passport.What really is needed here is for EACH and EVERY posting about Navigator to include:
Version of Navigator
Type of Cable Box (ex SA8300HDC)
Location.

The location SHOULD be in your profile (I just don't understand how folks need to be so secretive)
And the box type and version of Navigator should be in your signature.

If you folks aren't willing to share that pertinent information, then your comments/reviews/rants/whatever are not worth much.

Yes, I don't have Navigator, but I (as are others) am interested in how it is progressing and this critical information helps everyone understand "where you are coming from".

[QUOTE=davehancock;13697290]What really is needed here is for EACH and EVERY posting about Navigator to include:
Version of Navigator
QUOTE]


how can we figure out what version of navigator we have?

When features of Navigator are released,

Is this determined locally or nationally? Are ideas submitted at the local level and then sent to a national location? An example of a national location would be TWC head offices in New York City?

For example, suppose TWC wants to add two features that many people miss from Passport such as "View This Channel Now" when taking action on a future program in the IPG, a Keyword Search for the keyboard, and Word-Wrap for all menus.

Can individual state offices add those features through what they want to do? Or do all of the feature requests have to be approved by the main New York office and than "trickled down" to each division? I would bet on the former, because we know that TWC Lincoln Nebraska has a few added features that other areas do not. (Such as individual time-slots for series recording.) What are everyone's thoughts on this?

Jack

[QUOTE=davehancock;13697290]What really is needed here is for EACH and EVERY posting about Navigator to include:
Version of Navigator
QUOTE]


how can we figure out what version of navigator we have?


On our system I go to diag ch 888 and it shows version -but it can be a diff channel on yours so search for diag

Roy

:eek: In no way shape or form, in any area, is Navigator an improvement over Passport. To address some of those issues, the percentage used space indicator is nowhere near as precise as being able to get into diagnostics and seeing, down the single gigabyte, just how much space is free and used on the disk - much more useful. To address another, I never had a program dropped with Passport, but several of my series recordings were dropped when I got 'gatored. I never had a crash with Passport, but have been having them on a daily basis with Navigator. My expansion drive works seamlessly with Passport; don't know what will happen when that DVR (still on Passport) gets 'gatored but some of the initial reports are kind of frightening.

I currently have both, each on a different SA8300HD, so I can see on a daily basis just how inferior, in every respect, Navigator is to Passport. You sir, are in a minority of one. And there's always one in every crowd. ;)

You must have a different version of Navigator, because the one I have is actually quite stable. I have an external drive connected to it and, as strange as it may sound, it works better than it did on Passport. With I Passport it wouldn't buffer live TV because of a bug. This is fixed in Navigator. I'd say overall it still needs lots of work, but is gaining ground rapidly on Passport.

Passports version was 2.6.002. I'm not sure about Navigator because I'm not at home right now but I'm fairly sure the version date is Jan 18, 2008.

I'd say overall it still needs lots of work, but is gaining ground rapidly on Passport.

That epitomizes what's wrong with Navigator.

Navigator is "gaining ground" on a version of Passport that is two years old, and even then wasn't the most feature packed version available to the majority of TWC users.

How is that progress?

On our system I go to diag ch 888 and it shows version -but it can be a diff channel on yours so search for diag

Roy

I wish I could find that info for TWC Mid Ohio boxes. I've been looking for it for some time with no luck.

The only thing I can do is hold select for a few seconds, hit the down arrow and bring up that screen. Is that it, or is there a different procedure with an actual channel number I can go to?

That epitomizes what's wrong with Navigator.

Navigator is "gaining ground" on a version of Passport that is two years old, and even then wasn't the most feature packed version available to the majority of TWC users.

How is that progress?

The features we knew from Passport on the versions that most people know, actually go back a good 5 years. I think Navigator, (just based on my own experience with it,) has gotten better in the last year or so, but still has a way to go, and in some cases a long way to go before it gets close to gaining the general public respect. That could be another 1-2 years down the line.

However, that's not the crux of the problem. With Navigator developed as an "in-house" operating system there was NEVER any customer input from the managerial level for a previous 6 months to a year that said:

"Dear Valued Customer,

We are in the process of developing a new interactive program guide for our users called "Navigator" and we would like you to respond to the enclosed survey regarding the features that you would like to see. Please help us by answering the following 25 questionnaire regarding the features that you liked, didn't like, or were indifferent about the Passport software, so that we can help prepare the programing readiness and roll out of this new Guide."

That letter should have been sent out with a survey a good YEAR before the roll out, (6 months minimum,) so that customers would be actively involved in the process. That's why so many people are up in arms about Navigator. The functions and features of what was added, and even worse, what was taken out, were based on corporate decisions of what the company wanted, not what it's customers wanted. You release the survey information, BEFORE you roll out the product with at least a 6 month to year time frame to gage customer responses. This should have been about creating a new IPG for the benefit of the customer. That clearly did not happen.

Than to try to make amends, some locations put out surveys after the change over occurred to their boxes and DVR's. How does that help? All that means is that TWC now has to go back and fix bugs with Navigator because customers said it was buggy. Had customer surveys been used in planning and preparing this IPG, and the conversion process, with features that the customers wanted through survey responses, Navigator would be facing a much better PR image outside of the company than it is now. There was no customer input concerning the planning and roll out of this product. Who wouldn't be PO at this type of business marketing strategy?

Let's see if any, and how many of the bugs get fixed.

Jack

I wish I could find that info for TWC Mid Ohio boxes.

If you have gone through every channel one by one and couldn't find a diagnostic channel, then your system doesn't provide it for your type of set-top box. Your only choice is the diagnostics screen you mentioned.

I actually asked TW about where this channel went (and the one where I can manage my account payments) after I upgraded from non-HD to HD service recently. Neither of those channels are supported in TW Southwest Ohio if you have the OCAP version of Navigator on SA8300HDC.

This should have been about creating a new IPG for the benefit of the customer.

Says who? We as customers certainly would wish this is about a better IPG... but any such thought is just wishful thinking or simply implied from the marketing materials that TW is putting up in front of the switchover. While customer satisfaction is important to some degree, I do not believe that there is much incentive for TW to build a new IPG for the benefit of the customer. (At least not right now.) After all, they had working guide systems already deployed and while they had different features and might not be "state of the art" from the customer's perspective, they worked at least "OK" in most circumstances.

If TW's goal for this rollout was to benefit of the customer, I agree that surveys could have been helpful in identifying issues earlier and they could have reacted to those issues. However, I'm willing to bet that they know what the big customer problems are without any surveys. We all know from reports on this forum that Navigator has been in the market for at least 1 year already in some areas (perhaps longer). We also know they've had plenty of feedback on Navigator already (a lot of it negative). So, the surveys you describe (at least for the more recent deployments) would likely not reveal any new information. In fact, it might be worse for TW because they would have appeared to care what you think and then probably deployed Navigator in its current state anyway.

What can be confusing here is that every corporation markets any and all changes they make as "better for the customer" (or at least "better for the shareholder"). They have to say something after all. No company is going to say they are going to make changes that make it better for them and worse for the customer. And "better" and "worse" are relative terms. For some, "worse" means "intolerable" and "better" just means "different".

I believe there is a LOT of incentive for TW to create a new IPG... but not to make customers happier with the IPG itself. If they get a few customer brownie points for an improved feature set, then so be it. They have a wide variety of set top boxes already deployed. They have different software running on them with different contracts for software licensing and support. They are running out of bandwidth and need to deploy SDV so they can add new channels... especially HD content. They have the CableCard mandate from the FCC. All of this brews up to a nasty mess for TW to address.

I believe that the driving force behind the Navigator rollout has nothing to do with benefits for the customer from an IPG perspective. I believe it's all about deploying a single IPG package to all systems and that they will have complete control of the software feature set top-to-bottom and end-to-end. As such, they won't have to negotiate with different vendors to update the software or licensing fees to deal with. Also, they can go ahead and deploy things like SDV (in theory) sooner rather than later and at less cost. The sooner they get SDV deployed, the faster they can add new channels and new interactive services. New channels means fewer customers leave for satellite/FIOS and new interactive services means new revenue streams.

Yes, this all assumes that the system that they can build on their own is "good enough", that the box will be stable, and the IPG alone won't cause customers to defect. The success of this effort so far is debatable... but how many people have actually left cable for satellite/FIOS as a result of the IPG? I haven't seen any numbers on this and it might be hard to determine exactly how many of those people actually left because of Navigator.

Personally, I miss some features of Passport. I really did not like Navigator when I first got it. I still don't like some of it. But am I going to leave TW and go to a different provider? No. So what do I do? I change my expectations and viewing habits. After all, it's just TV and it's not worth the stress of worrying about it. I'd do much better if I just unplugged it and went for a walk instead. Don't get me wrong here, I'm completely addicted to my DVR. I stopped watching TV altogether for months when my first child was born. (Watching TV was just too frustrating because I'd miss something whenever the baby cried.) It was only through getting the DVR that I started watching TV again.

I believe that the driving force behind the Navigator rollout has nothing to do with benefits for the customer from an IPG perspective. I believe it's all about deploying a single IPG package to all systems and that they will have complete control of the software feature set top-to-bottom and end-to-end. As such, they won't have to negotiate with different vendors to update the software or licensing fees to deal with. Also, they can go ahead and deploy things like SDV (in theory) sooner rather than later and at less cost. The sooner they get SDV deployed, the faster they can add new channels and new interactive services. New channels means fewer customers leave for satellite/FIOS and new interactive services means new revenue streams.


I know the reason for Navigator was to gain a uniform platform across all markets and add SDV where not available. I get that, but what I don't get is that after around SIX years of development and TWO years in the field this software is still such a mess. Time Warner is smart to pursue an IPG they control as it makes sense. The problem is how they are going about it. As the customer, I view it this way: If it's this hard to get a stable guide then how easy it it going to be to just add features or make my viewing experience better? That's why people in the know switch to another provider (if available). How long do you give TWC to fix the problems? 4 years, 5 years? Hell, your satellite commitment would be up in two and if TWC finally did get it right then one could simply switch back. Personally, I have decided to give TWC a chance. Once Navigator is deployed here, I will run it through it's paces and if it's not up to snuff, I will call DirecTV. I was willing to give TWC a 90 day window for any minor glitches, but have even reconsidered that. They should have it right by now and if this is hardware related, they should be going after the vendor to correct the problem. If it can't be address, start issuing the newer boxes.

Hello,

I posted the message below on the Sony A3000 owners thread and was referred to this thread. One of the forum members referred me to this thread because they thought the problem that I am having is a fairly common occurrence.

Is this something known to happen with the cable box? If so, are there any fixes available? Any help is greatly appreciated.


____________________________________________________________ _____

Hello all,

I have had a 60A3000 since last October and I love it.

However, I have had some annoying problems with my HD signal from time. There are times that when I am watching or switching to a HDTV channel the signal reverts to SD. Also, when I hit "guide" and turn it back to the full screen, it stays in a PIP box in the upper right corner. I am able to get it back to full screen by hitting the on/off PIP button on my cable box remote. I have Time Warner service with a Scientific Atlanta DVR Explorer 8300HDC connected via HDMI to the TV and a Sony home theater system. Yesterday, I went and replaced the old DVR with a new one ( same model) but I still have the problem. Any suggestions as to what might be wrong?

Any input is greatly appreciated.

However, I have had some annoying problems with my HD signal from time.

Both of your problems have been mentioned repeatedly in this forum. Please tell us what cable system you are on and what your software version is. On some systems you can find the software version on a special "diagnostic channel" whose number varies by system. If you do not have the diagnostic channel on your system, you can hold the SEL button on your remote until the e-mail light on the cable box flashes. Then press the down arrow key below the SEL button to enter the diagnostic screens.

Thanks for your reply. I hit the SEL button and got 9 pages of info.

Are you referring to bootstrapper, network, monitor, odn version or all of the above?

...what I don't get is that after around SIX years of development and TWO years in the field this software is still such a mess.

Software systems are almost always way more complicated than most people realize. (I should know, I'm in the software development business... but not the cable industry.) Many times, these systems are unnecessarily complex... which can be a big part of the problem. I don't know if anyone has really tried to do what TW is trying to do. The set-top-box providers probably haven't as they likely only care if their software runs on their boxes... not multiple different boxes from different vendors. (and yes, I know there are different variants of Navigator and not the exact same code running on each box). Who knows even if the set-top-box providers have made it exceptionally hard for TW to do what it is doing... after all, I would think it would be in the box provider's best interest that TW keeps leasing the sofware license from the box provider. Maybe TW completely underestimated how hard this would be. Maybe they didn't put enough engineers on the project. Maybe they didn't hire engineers with the right skills. Maybe management made decisions that added significant time or complications to the development. Maybe the hardware has changed significantly in the last 6 years. We may never know.

Salisbury, NC SA8300HD 2.4.1-92

Was Navigatored last night.

All recorded shows are still there, all scheduled recordings are there, favorites are there, appears everything came over fine except:

Power on channel changed from "last" to local cable news
output resolutions changed from 1080i to 720p + 1080i
audio output changed from dobly digital to HDMI

Browsing the guide seems as fast as Passport

Have only "played" with it for about an hour

Are you referring to bootstrapper, network, monitor, odn version or all of the above?

ODN number is usually the one people care about.

I (fortunately) don't have Navigator, so I might be off on this - but your problem sure sounds more like a signal strength (or perhaps signal ingress) issue than anything else. The reason I say this is that it works fine on some channels and not on others. I suspect that the problem channels are at a higher QAM frequency (not necessarily related to where they show up on the guide) and the signal levels might be a it low. The other potential issue (ingress) is where external signals (for example a local UHF channel) may be leaking into cable in your neighborhood (or even house) and interfering with a specific QAM channel. TW normally puts two HD channels on a QAM, so if you are only having this problem with two HD channels that could well be the cause.

In either event, the bottom line is to have a TW tech visit and check things out. There could have been things happen to the cable recently in your neighborhood that are now causing the problem.

Tonight the problem happened again. I even undid a split of my cable and went directly to the cable box. No STO-HD and it took a few reboots to get the cable box past the E-13 situation.

I got my work schedule so I can now actually call TWC and get a service call set up for when it's best for me.

The other thing I theorize is STO-HD was only a part-time channel last season for Indians' home games. On April 1, it went 24/7. It's only STO-HD I have the issue with, as all other HD channels are fine. So I wonder if that is a significant fact in the situation?

Guess we'll find out when I call and the tech guy comes out.

Here goes:

I have Time Warner Cable via HDMI to a Sony 60A3000 HDTV.

DVR Box: Time Warner Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8300HDC
ODN 2.4.9_3 2008/1/24 14:44

Any suggestions for a fix?

Any suggestions for a fix?

Switch to component cables rather than HDMI or keep using the PIP trick, which is what I happen to do. Hopefully one fine day, TWC will fix this. It actually only just started happening with the 2.4.9_3 release.

You must have a different version of Navigator, because the one I have is actually quite stable. I have an external drive connected to it and, as strange as it may sound, it works better than it did on Passport. With I Passport it wouldn't buffer live TV because of a bug. This is fixed in Navigator. I'd say overall it still needs lots of work, but is gaining ground rapidly on Passport.

Passports version was 2.6.002. I'm not sure about Navigator because I'm not at home right now but I'm fairly sure the version date is Jan 18, 2008.

That's interesting. I've never known anyone to have a problem with Passport buffering live TV (on either tuner). I wasn't aware of any Passport bugs that would cause that problem. (Edit: I just realized you were referring to the external hard drive not buffering live TV with Passport, and not actually having a problem with the internal drive.) I do know that earlier versions of Navigator had a lot of problems with buffering (even with the box's own internal drive). If it is working well now, that's good to know.

What brand/model external hardrive do you have connected to your box? I'm considering getting one, and it'd be nice to find one that works well with Navigator. Is your box an 8300HD or 8300HDC?

That's interesting. I've never known anyone to have a problem with Passport buffering live TV (on either tuner). I wasn't aware of any Passport bugs that would cause that problem. I do know that earlier versions of Navigator had a lot of problems with buffering. If it is working well now, that's good to know.The "can't buffer live-TV while an external drive is in use" issue is a very well known problem that's been discussed extensively in the Passport thread. When people first noticed that versions of Passport Echo had become capable of using an external eSATA drive (some sub-release of 2.5, I think), reports of this "bug" emerged and we gradually pieced together how it works. (I parenthesis "bug" because eSATA drive support is not an announced or documented feature of Passport Echo and as such it shouldn't work at all).

If you connect an eSATA drive to a box running Passport Echo, it will start using it to store new recordings. All new recordings will be saved entirely to the external drive--it won't split recordings between them. It will continue to store recordings to the external drive until a larger percentage of the internal drive is free. Let's say that the external drive is 600GB. If you fill up 50% of the external drive (300GB) and you watch and delete things on the internal drive until 51% of it is free (81.6GB of 160GB total), it will switch back to storing recordings on the internal drive until a greater percentage of the external drive than of the internal drive is free. During any period while it's storing recordings on the external drive, buffering of live television will be disabled and hence trick-play of live TV will fail. You can hit PAUSE and it'll freeze the display, but once you hit play again, it will continue from realtime and not from where you paused it; the REW key does nothing. When it switches back to recording on the internal drive, live buffering is temporarily restored.

This was never "fixed" in any version of Passport Echo that has been discussed here. I believe that a very few Time Warner systems distributed Passport Echo 2.7, but no one ever brought it up in the discussion here, so I'm not sure whether live-buffering-while-recording-to-the-external-drive was fixed or whether external drive support was ever even announced as a feature. It's not discussed in Aptiv Digital's PR's on 2.7, from October 2005 (http://www.aptivdigital.com/presscenter/pressreleasesdetail.asp?ID=5) and February 2006 (http://www.aptivdigital.com/presscenter/pressreleasesdetail.asp?ID=7).

EDIT: I did a little digging around and found the first report of an eSATA drive being made to work with Passport Echo here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6844859&&#post6844859), in the "8300HD and External SATA - It Works!" thread. The post was from January 2006 and the guy claimed to have an eSATA drive working with Passport Echo 1.8.112 (up to that point, the only people to get an external drive to work were running SARA). As I recall, his report was eventually viewed with much skepticism since no one with that version of Passport was able to get it to work, but it's notable that he reports the live-buffering problem in his initial post.

I got "upgraded" (?) to Navigator within the last couple weeks. It seems like the tiniest of features were removed as what I was use to with passport. One annoying thing is that when you bring up the list of recorded shows and play it... then stop it or turn the tv/unit off... and then go back to the recorded list again... its not on the show that you were watching. Imagine trying to go through 20 Barney shows or Dora's trying to figure out which one the kids were watching. Im so glad I got this new and innovative POS :rolleyes:... if it aint broke... have a team develope it internally, do no beta testing, and make sure its a step down from the previous software...
/end rant

That's interesting. I've never known anyone to have a problem with Passport buffering live TV (on either tuner). I wasn't aware of any Passport bugs that would cause that problem. (Edit: I just realized you were referring to the external hard drive not buffering live TV with Passport, and not actually having a problem with the internal drive.) I do know that earlier versions of Navigator had a lot of problems with buffering (even with the box's own internal drive). If it is working well now, that's good to know.

What brand/model external hardrive do you have connected to your box? I'm considering getting one, and it'd be nice to find one that works well with Navigator. Is your box an 8300HD or 8300HDC?

It's an 8300HD. I'll have to look at the enclosure and the drive because I got them so long ago that I don't remember what brand they are. I do know it was on a list that I found somewhere for drives that supposedly worked with Passport. I don't know if Navigator is quite as picky.

I believe that the driving force behind the Navigator rollout has nothing to do with benefits for the customer from an IPG perspective. I believe it's all about deploying a single IPG package to all systems and that they will have complete control of the software feature set top-to-bottom and end-to-end. As such, they won't have to negotiate with different vendors to update the software or licensing fees to deal with. Also, they can go ahead and deploy things like SDV (in theory) sooner rather than later and at less cost. The sooner they get SDV deployed, the faster they can add new channels and new interactive services. New channels means fewer customers leave for satellite/FIOS and new interactive services means new revenue streams.


This is old news that has been discussed in this thread and elsewhere. We know the primary reason for this rollout is SDV and we know money is a factor. They've poured so much time and money into this software and other parts of it, they have to recoup the costs by scrapping their existing license for Passport and trying to make this old product useful somewhere.

We know the primary reason for this rollout is SDV and we know money is a factor.I don't believe for a second that this is any slightest part of the reason. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Passport Echo could easily be made to support SDV--most of the support would be in middleware code that's not even part of the IPG, with minor additions to the IPG to support a couple of required user prompts ("Are you still viewing this channel?") and to provide to a reason-code to the channel changing middleware call ("I'm changing the channel on a viewed tuner for a real time request", "I'm changing the channel for a user-scheduled recording", "I'm changing the channel for a 'speculative' recording", etc). Adding this support is a few man-weeks effort at most and I have no doubt that Passport Echo, which now belongs to Gemstar/TV Guide and has been licensed for use by Cox as their new default IPG, will be used in SDV systems in the future. I'm equally certain that SARA has been modified to support SA's SDV offering.

I don't think that TWC's reasons for adopting Navigator are that straightforward and I believe that they have little to nothing to do with directly addressing the wishes and needs of their subscribers. They obviously had many options and probably could have purchased Aptiv Digital as easily as Gemstar did, but they chose instead to purchase the (probably much less expensive) company that was developing this turkey (it should be noted they made that purchase long before SDV technology was in the offing). It was a huge gamble that's going to lose them many subs and some serious income to start.

A general question,

Overall, we are seeing better performance from Navigator on the non-C boxes than the C-boxes. In fact, I got one of the last "newer" non-C boxes at the end of August 2007 when I switched to "All The Best." (The tech still had some used that were left.) So, considering the thousands and thousands of non-C boxes that are still out there, what is TWC doing with them when they are exchanged? I am speaking from the example that a customer goes from a non-C DVR box that works fine to a now required C-DVR, if they upgrade to DVR service. What are they doing to the non-C boxes that are working well?

Jack

I'd also like to ask, and maybe this is buried in this thread somewhere,

"Who's brilliant idea was it to develop Navigator when this came about 6 years ago? Most likely this was a team decision that has certainly NOT been well received by the general public. I wonder what "they" are doing now? Were these independent engineers hired by TWC for the project, and then they left for China, India, or Pakistan, never to be heard from again? Then, this program starts getting developed, and put through testing with tons of bugs. Maybe they can't (or couldn't) call back the original programs from Maestro who developed the source code for Navigator. Than in compliance with FCC regulations mandating integrated cable cards in the new C-boxes after July, 1, 2007, the USA programmers who were less experienced may have had to write the OCAP software for the C-boxes on their own, going off of the original MDN platform, that was buggy from the start.

Therefore within the last two years, TWC may be looking for "outside house" help in trying to fix the bugs in two different platforms (non-C box) MDN and (C-box) OCAP. The "original team" from six years back, may not even be with TWC anymore and have gone on to other projects. This leaves the poor in-house engineers left to clean up a huge mess and patch the bugs. If this original source code was buggy, this could take years to get the bugs out.

I wonder if the "new team" if there is a new team, is looking at this and saying. "Based on customer communications and problems in particular with the OCAP box models, we really should have gone with the Passport Update for SVD support."

This is just my theory.

Jack

A general question,

Overall, we are seeing better performance from Navigator on the non-C boxes than the C-boxes. In fact, I got one of the last "newer" non-C boxes at the end of August 2007 when I switched to "All The Best." (The tech still had some used that were left.) So, considering the thousands and thousands of non-C boxes that are still out there, what is TWC doing with them when they are exchanged? I am speaking from the example that a customer goes from a non-C DVR box that works fine to a now required C-DVR, if they upgrade to DVR service. What are they doing to the non-C boxes that are working well?I can't imagine that they're not continuing to distribute them. I believe that a year after the SA8300HD came out, my local TWC was still bringing SA8000HDs out to customers for new DVR service. If it works and the customer doesn't specifically want a new box, why remove it from service?

I predicted in this thread that the OCAP boxes would be initially buggier than the legacy MDN ones. MDN has been under development and test for years longer. The OCAP execution platform itself is just entering wide public distribution and is probably rife with bugs and translating a working program into another language and execution environment is almost guaranteed to introduce new problems.

There's a legacy Explorer 8300HD running MDN in the family room of the home that I share and while it's not in the heaviest of use (my housemate is not a big TV watcher and I principally use my TiVo), we haven't had a single problem with it over the two months or so since it was "upgraded". A few things are less handy and a few things are improved over Passport Echo. The Explorer 4250HDC in my housemate's bedroom is pretty ridiculously buggy and slow, despite having an identical pair of processors with twice the memory (it's basically the 8250HDC DVR without the HDD).

A general question,

Overall, we are seeing better performance from Navigator on the non-C boxes than the C-boxes. In fact, I got one of the last "newer" non-C boxes at the end of August 2007 when I switched to "All The Best." (The tech still had some used that were left.) So, considering the thousands and thousands of non-C boxes that are still out there, what is TWC doing with them when they are exchanged? I am speaking from the example that a customer goes from a non-C DVR box that works fine to a now required C-DVR, if they upgrade to DVR service. What are they doing to the non-C boxes that are working well?

Jack

I had a TWC contractor at my house earlier this week to run a line into a new room. We were out at his truck and I noticed two 8300HDs in his toolbox which had the film over the plastic. I almost took one just so I wouldn't be stuck with an 8300HDC when we get another TV this summer!

Also, this is not the first time I have seen a TWC tech carrying around HD DVRs with absolutely no protection. I mean they weren't in a corrugated box and they had no padding. No wonder so many DVRs fail. :rolleyes:

When is Time Warner Cable Of Albany going to send out new Navigator software to their customers?

When is Time Warner Cable Of Albany going to send out new Navigator software to their customers?Hopefully -NEVER.

You know, after I got 'gatored on my primary (time-shifting) 8300, in order to avoid them being able to download it to my secondary (movie "archiving") DVR, I simply haven't turned it "off". Still got Passport 2 weeks later. I would prefer to keep my beloved Passport right up to the minute they begin offering new HD channels with SDV, since I can see no other advantage, and plenty of disadvantages (the rewind button is driving me crazy!!) to Navigator. Don't know how long this will last, but I'll ride it as long as I can.

So, anyway, the answer to delaying the download of Navigator may be as simple as just leaving your box "on". Been working for me. :)

So, anyway, the answer to delaying the download of Navigator may be as simple as just leaving your box "on". Been working for me. :)For the couple of years that I used one, I never, ever turn my SA DVR into the "off" state and it never kept the system from upgrading Passport Echo. Why would it? Hell, I've even seen upgrade downloaded in the middle of a recording--the recording would be present on the DVR in two pieces, with about a 4 minute gap missing.

For the couple of years that I used one, I never, ever turn my SA DVR into the "off" state and it never kept the system from upgrading Passport Echo. Why would it? Hell, I've even seen upgrade downloaded in the middle of a recording--the recording would be present on the DVR in two pieces, with about a 4 minute gap missing.

The same for me Mike,

If an update is required and sensed by the head-end, users will eventually get that update, regardless of whether their box or DVR is turned on or off. On Passport with regard to recordings, that is exactly correct, the recording picks up after the update is completed (or after power is restored from a commercial power failure,) and you will see two instances of the same recording:

1.) The time the recording first started to the power interruption.

2.) The time recording resumed after power is restored till the end of the show, or until the user manually stopped the recording.

Not sure how Navigator deals with this issue, but it is probably similar.

Jack

That's interesting. I've never known anyone to have a problem with Passport buffering live TV (on either tuner). I wasn't aware of any Passport bugs that would cause that problem. (Edit: I just realized you were referring to the external hard drive not buffering live TV with Passport, and not actually having a problem with the internal drive.) I do know that earlier versions of Navigator had a lot of problems with buffering (even with the box's own internal drive). If it is working well now, that's good to know.

What brand/model external hardrive do you have connected to your box? I'm considering getting one, and it'd be nice to find one that works well with Navigator. Is your box an 8300HD or 8300HDC?

I use a Rosewill enclosure http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817173043 and
a Seagate 750GB hard drive http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148152 and
eSATA cable http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10226&cs_id=1022603&p_id=3940&seq=1&format=2

My wife and I just returned from a small vacation home we have in Emerald Isle NC.We found we had been Navigated on our pioneer box (non dvr).After playing with it for 4 days I was a bit suprised that I did not hate it.Comeing from SARA in our home in Greensboro the sarch engine took me back to my Tivo days(minus keyword search).The title search was not hard to use and sub catagorys were nice.Remember I'm writeing as a Sara not Passport user.My interface was as fast if not faster than both passport(which I lost) and Sara.Did not like the fact the screen in the right corner blacked out as search data was loaded but that only took a few seconds.Siting up menu choices while not difficult is more work than on Sara.The blue frontage can become annoying after a while.In 4 days of use it never rebooted once.I now have had Tivo.Passport,Sara and Navigator.I would give Tivo a A plus,Passport a A-,Sara a B plus(Lack of proper search engine the main problem there).Now Navigator-On my Pioneer boc I would give it a C+.I have no experience with dvr Navigator so I am speaking only of my Pioneer non Dvr box.Do not know what version I had but will find out next time down and post it.In summation I would say that from reading horror storys on this board and my personal experience with Navigator that is is inproveing and evolving.If this is to be our guide of the future it seems TWC is finally moveing in the proper direction.Of ourse this could change when Navigator hits Greensboro and my DVR here but fingers crossed.Hope my insight helps a little. SARA 1.89.17.1 in Greensboro