I said exaggerated because I usually saw a 5-second backup. However, I'm looking at a count-down timer right now on MSNBC (they're showing when the WV polls close). When I hit replay, it backs up 8-9 seconds consistently. Anyone who wants to test it accurately can tune to MSNBC for the rest of the day and see for themselves. Since you don't indicate which release you have, we can't tell if the problem has been fixed on my release or broken on yours.


How do you find the release number? I can get into the diagnostic screens by holding down the "select" button and then hitting "arrow down". I get 28 pages of diagnostic screens, but nowhere could I find something that definitively told me what version of Navigator I'm dealing with. Page 14 is titled "Software Versions", and the first line reads: PTV v6.14.89.isp. Is that it?

How do you find the release number? I can get into the diagnostic screens by holding down the "select" button and then hitting "arrow down". I get 28 pages of diagnostic screens, but nowhere could I find something that definitively told me what version of Navigator I'm dealing with. Page 14 is titled "Software Versions", and the first line reads: PTV v6.14.89.isp. Is that it?No--that's the version of the PowerTV RTOS it's built on (I don't think that the ODN boxes use PowerTV). It should be "ResApp Version" or something like that.

phousley's sig says that he's using an 8300HDC box, meaning that he's running ODN. I'm thinking that you're using a legacy 8300HD running MDN. They don't work precisely the same--I known that there are menu items in MDN which are absent in ODN, like the option to restrict a series recording to a specific time of day or not (either that or the option to restrict it to a specific channel or not--I forget which).

phousley's sig says that he's using an 8300HDC box, meaning that he's running ODN. I'm thinking that you're using a legacy 8300HD running MDN. They don't work precisely the same--I known that there are menu items in MDN which are absent in ODN, like the option to restrict a series recording to a specific time of day or not (either that or the option to restrict it to a specific channel or not--I forget which).

That's correct, mine (I have two) are an "HD", not "HDC" model. No cable card.

Other rational people trying to read this thread.

I guess when I think about it though, what's the point of showing your anger here if you didn't think that someone from TW was reading it? Otherwise, no one benefits from it other that the ranter; and even then it's probably wasted effort.

Because if nobody mentions it here then you may as well just sit at home prodding buttons in an attempt to randomly discover a cure for a problem. Post your complaint here and you might get someone to reply who had the same issue and figured out a way to solve/alleviate it because they hate the thing as much as you do.

What's the point in telling anyone about a problem you are having? That's what everyone does every single day. Whether they got screwed over at work or by a retailer, mechanic etc. If they didn't vent about it to their family and friends people would have very short conversations.

One thing venting in this thread has done has made everyone aware of the shortcomings of Navigator and established that it isn't just one person (or the town of Lincoln, Nebraska) that thinks Navigator sucks.

This isn't a discussion board for Navigator developers, it's a discussion board for people who have to use it whether they like it or not. We don't have to be respectful of TWC decisions and we don't need to be happy about it. Obviously. Someone going ballistic at TWC in this thread is not going to make any difference to me if I can answer their question or not.

If TWC wants to set up a nice feedback system because they actually give a damn, then we'd have some place to send constructive comments to. But they haven't and based on their track record, won't be any time soon.

/rant

While I'm venting ...

another thing I found that I really hate is checking the scheduled recordings list and then having to select day or title. Why? Just go into one automatically and then I've got the choice if I want to switch to the other category.

Any UI change which adds additional steps to achieve the same result as previous is just badly designed. I'm seeing this all over Navigator. I don't know if it's because of the copyrighted Passport design or not, but it's like they've intentionally made it a longer process to actually find the information you need.

Last night I was in the Find Shows menu searching for movies and came across two entries for FF: Rise of the Silver Surfer and of course you can't see what they are in the info box because they have multiple showings and you can't just press info to get a quick summary either. So you have to press select on each title and then get info on one airing from the drop down menu on each listing.

I eventually found out that one was a Spanish channel version airing on HBOLA. Why they couldn't put that in the other listing made no sense. The channel and summary would tell you that it was Spanish language.

Another thing you can't see in Find Shows - if something is a scheduled recording. Again if you have multiple airings you have to select the show then go down the list to see which is the one actually recording and you can only tell that because of a tiny blue (!) "REC" icon in the info panel.

Because if nobody mentions it here then you may as well just sit at home prodding buttons in an attempt to randomly discover a cure for a problem. Post your complaint here and you might get someone to reply who had the same issue and figured out a way to solve/alleviate it because they hate the thing as much as you do.You couldn't have expressed what I'm trying to encourage any better. Mentioning problems, good; hysteria, bad.

You couldn't have expressed what I'm trying to encourage any better. Mentioning problems, good; hysteria, bad.

and what I'm saying is the context is irrelevant. I'm not TWC so I don't care if a problem is screamed or whispered. If the anger isn't directed at me I don't care.

Vent your problem and curse at TWC if it makes you feel better. I and others also feel the pain.

Well, except those who have the HDC box. My 8300HD hasn't done anything catastrophic since the download.

Yet.

There a couple of annoying things that I don't know if they are "features" of the new Navigator software or just things on my end.

I keep setting the display to time when off and channel when on, but it doesn't stay that way. It keeps reverting back to always showing the channel.

The buffer of the guide used to automatically download the next few days. It now only holds the schedule for today. If I want to check the schedule ahead or scheduled recordings for the next week, I have to hit guide and day forward, wait for a while until tomorrow is loaded into memory, hit day forward and wait some more, rinse and repeat for each day until the entire week is slowly added.

Are these the same with everyone?

The buffer of the guide used to automatically download the next few days. It now only holds the schedule for today.

good grief, I never noticed that until you mentioned it. Same thing here. :mad:

Another annoying thing about navigator is that if you change days by scrolling through the programming you get no indication it's loading new data. It just hangs with blank boxes.

In Passport the grid would display "loading new data," in Navigator that only appears in the info panel and only if you use the day advance button.

I'm trying to be tolerant of this software, but this may kill it for me. Is there really no way to re-order things on your recorded list? It used to be called "keep longer" or something along those lines.

Surely i'm just missing it, right right?

I've been anti-satellite for a long time, but navigator may push me over the edge.

I've been anti-satellite for a long time, but navigator may push me over the edge.

I concur! While I wouldn't say I'm "anti-satellite", this impending doom has me considering it. TWC has some great services here. The RoadRunner and Digital Phone have been outstanding. The cable has been continually improving, yet all the while has had the following advantages over sat (for me anyway): 1) Locals in HD 2) Video On Demand) 3) Simple Installation, the home is pre-wired and I don't need to install an OTA antenna for HD locals 4) Cheaper - No equipment costs, monthly breaks down cheaper because analog outlets are free. 5) Better PQ - compared to two separate hook ups of DirecTV I've seen, I feel the TWC PQ is superior 6) I've not had any weather related outages and finally, as of right now the DVR service has been rock solid, albeit butt ugly.

Now, some are saying if I find TWC so great why contemplate switching? Simply put, the IPG/DVR is the most important thing to me. My schedule dictates that because I'm never home to watch anything in prime time. Without a reliable and stable DVR, I might as well not sub to a pay service. If TWC screws this up and makes it that much of a hassle to enjoy, then I will go elsewhere.

In the end, I'm but one customer (among others who canceled based on Navigator), but TWC doesn't care. Hell, their total number of subs went UP this year last time I checked. Face it people, we are an insignificant minority and TWC knows this. In other words, they can afford to lose us because by the numbers, we are expendable.

I'm trying to be tolerant of this software, but this may kill it for me. Is there really no way to re-order things on your recorded list? It used to be called "keep longer" or something along those lines.

Surely i'm just missing it, right right?


I used to order things by show title and delete priority. So I would dump movies I don't care about at the bottom of the list etc.

Now, the list does have a sort by title feature, which on the surface is an improvement, but ... it automatically goes to date view when you hit List so it's just another step you have to do each time.

Another thing which annoys me in the List (they just keep on coming!) is that the warning symbol gives you no idea why it's there unless you get info on the show. In Passport just highlighting the show as you scrolled past would tell you how many days until deletion. Now you have to get info and look for the summary in hours, dumped at the bottom of the screen, with nothing to highlight it. There's no way to order the shows in order of culling now. It just kills by oldest unlocked show first.

good grief, I never noticed that until you mentioned it. Same thing here. :mad:

Another annoying thing about navigator is that if you change days by scrolling through the programming you get no indication it's loading new data. It just hangs with blank boxes.

In Passport the grid would display "loading new data," in Navigator that only appears in the info panel and only if you use the day advance button.

Mine does not do that, it shows 7 days at all times. I believe that's the first thing I've heard that ODN does better than MDN.

good grief, I never noticed that until you mentioned it. Same thing here. :mad:

Another annoying thing about navigator is that if you change days by scrolling through the programming you get no indication it's loading new data. It just hangs with blank boxes.

In Passport the grid would display "loading new data," in Navigator that only appears in the info panel and only if you use the day advance button.

Hmm, that's not quite what I see. I do get a "loading" message for about 10 seconds, each day I advance forward.

I would like to point out two benefits of Navigator/Mystro compared to Passport: 1) with eSATA drive the instant replay works now; 2) when the SA8300HD is in stand-by mode with eSATA drive, there is no disk activity.

I would like to point out two benefits of Navigator/Mystro compared to Passport: 1) with eSATA drive the instant replay works now.

True, buffering resumes and with it trick play, but there's a tradeoff. The 15 minute jump feature (activated by holding down the FF or REW buttons, itself a clunky replacement for the more elegant way Passport did it) goes away. Not sure if that's only with material recorded on the expansion drive or if it affects all recordings, even those on the internal drive. Losing that feature only seems to affect DVR's with expansion drives hooked up.

There a couple of annoying things that I don't know if they are "features" of the new Navigator software or just things on my end.

I keep setting the display to time when off and channel when on, but it doesn't stay that way. It keeps reverting back to always showing the channel.

The buffer of the guide used to automatically download the next few days. It now only holds the schedule for today. If I want to check the schedule ahead or scheduled recordings for the next week, I have to hit guide and day forward, wait for a while until tomorrow is loaded into memory, hit day forward and wait some more, rinse and repeat for each day until the entire week is slowly added.

Are these the same with everyone?
RE: Program Guide data buffer. Sara 1.90.5.110 8300 HDC, TWC Hawaii

Prior to the implementation of SDV last October, the program guide always had a full 7 days of program guide loaded for instant viewing. Since SDV, the amount of program data is much less - ranging from a a day to a few days - have to wait for additional days to load . If I do a hard reboot, more program data will load. Everything points to SDV as the cause of this. I can live with this because SDV has been well worth it - many new HD channels were added since SDV was implemented.

Could anyone who has ODN and MDN summarize the differences between the two? I have been getting some weird behavior out of my 8300HD box which is running MDN 2.4.1-92 and am wondering whether switching boxes to possibly the ODN 8300HDC or ODN 8240HDC would be worth the risk. I suspect that either the MDN software package may have been corrupted during the software change (others have reported bricking during the change) or that MDN 2.4.1-92 is buggy.
The latest problem that has happened is that I hit the stop button to halt a recording that started when I accidentally pushed the record button, and the guide then swapped the red to show a program being recorded with the blue a non-recorded program shows, but the program still recorded. I eventually noticed the record lamp still turned on later on that day and went through the list menu to cancel the recording again and to delete it.

I was wondering if anyone got a set top (either one) that had a clean install of Navigator on it and not an "upgraded" one. My theory is that maybe, some issues are related to the update being downloaded to a set top with an already existing OS on it. IE: could it be possible that there are left over lines of code mucking up the works? Has anyone traded in the box for a new one? I know it's virtually impossible to tell if you have a brand new box or not, but I'm just pointing out that this could be an issue.

While I'm venting ... Another thing I found that I really hate is checking the scheduled recordings list and then having to select day or title. Why? Just go into one automatically and then I've got the choice if I want to switch to the other category.

Any UI change which adds additional steps to achieve the same result as previous is just badly designed. I'm seeing this all over Navigator. I don't know if it's because of the copyrighted Passport design or not, but it's like they've intentionally made it a longer process to actually find the information you need. ...
... The buffer of the guide used to automatically download the next few days. It now only holds the schedule for today. If I want to check the schedule ahead or scheduled recordings for the next week, I have to hit guide and day forward, wait for a while until tomorrow is loaded into memory, hit day forward and wait some more, rinse and repeat for each day until the entire week is slowly added. ...
I'm trying to be tolerant of this software, but this may kill it for me. ... I've been anti-satellite for a long time, but navigator may push me over the edge.
I concur! While I wouldn't say I'm "anti-satellite", this impending doom has me considering it. TWC has some great services here. The RoadRunner and Digital Phone have been outstanding. The cable has been continually improving, yet all the while has had the following advantages over sat (for me anyway): 1) Locals in HD 2) Video On Demand) 3) Simple Installation, the home is pre-wired and I don't need to install an OTA antenna for HD locals 4) Cheaper - No equipment costs, monthly breaks down cheaper because analog outlets are free. 5) Better PQ - compared to two separate hook ups of DirecTV I've seen, I feel the TWC PQ is superior 6) I've not had any weather related outages and finally, as of right now the DVR service has been rock solid, albeit butt ugly.

Now, some are saying if I find TWC so great why contemplate switching? Simply put, the IPG/DVR is the most important thing to me. My schedule dictates that because I'm never home to watch anything in prime time. Without a reliable and stable DVR, I might as well not sub to a pay service. If TWC screws this up and makes it that much of a hassle to enjoy, then I will go elsewhere.

In the end, I'm but one customer (among others who canceled based on Navigator), but TWC doesn't care. Hell, their total number of subs went UP this year last time I checked. Face it people, we are an insignificant minority and TWC knows this. In other words, they can afford to lose us because by the numbers, we are expendable.

I concur and agree with everything quoted above!!

I also have another complaint about buggy program buffering: I use the HDMI connection and haven't had too many problems so far. But, for the first time last night since getting Navigator'd, I switched the TV over to the HDMI-2 Input to watch a DVD. When I switched back to HDMI-1 (Cable), neither tuner had anything buffered. Both tuners were still on the channels they had been previously set to, but the buffers had been wiped out due to the switching of HDMI inputs. :mad:

Both tuners were still on the channels they had been previously set to, but the buffers had been wiped out due to the switching of HDMI inputs.It's also possible that your DVR went into sleep mode. That will also wipe your buffer (at least with ODN).

good grief, I never noticed that until you mentioned it. Same thing here. :mad:

Another annoying thing about navigator is that if you change days by scrolling through the programming you get no indication it's loading new data. It just hangs with blank boxes.

In Passport the grid would display "loading new data," in Navigator that only appears in the info panel and only if you use the day advance button.

i get the same thing. guide only shows 1 day then when i change days by scrolling it doesn't say "loading new data" or anything. just blank blue boxes and a blank black screen in the upper right.
another thing on mine is that if i do scroll through and let it load until it finally says "no more data" (or something to that effect). it will hold that info through the day but if i want to scroll through it tomorrow i have to start all over again. it looses what it had previously loaded.
the first week i had navigator it did show a whole week but since it has not.

I was wondering if anyone got a set top (either one) that had a clean install of Navigator on it and not an "upgraded" one. My theory is that maybe, some issues are related to the update being downloaded to a set top with an already existing OS on it. IE: could it be possible that there are left over lines of code mucking up the works? Has anyone traded in the box for a new one? I know it's virtually impossible to tell if you have a brand new box or not, but I'm just pointing out that this could be an issue.

my cousin got a brand new HDC box still packaged and taped up in the box when he moved recently from a comcast area to TWC. he said it already had navigator on it when the tech installed it. he is still having many of the issues stated in this thread. he doesn't frequent the forum and is constantly calling me asking why the box is doing something. the calls to me are less after i told him to abandon the hdmi cable. he has become very familiar with hard reboots.

my cousin got a brand new HDC box still packaged and taped up in the box when he moved recently from a comcast area to TWC. he said it already had navigator on it when the tech installed it. he is still having many of the issues stated in this thread. he doesn't frequent the forum and is constantly calling me asking why the box is doing something. the calls to me are less after i told him to abandon the hdmi cable. he has become very familiar with hard reboots.Locally, I believe that all Explorer 8300HDCs were delivered to people with Navigator installed, and they started deploying them back last summer, a good six months or more before they started pushing the mess into legacy boxes. Most of the people who got them had never previously had a DVR, so they didn't realize how buggy it was in comparison to what others got before them.

Rob052067:

RE: HDMI - Buffering, Switching inputs, etc.
Happens to my HDC with SARA, too. I connect my DVR TV2 output (SD) to my old tube TV in adajent den. If I am watching a recorded show (that has been paused) on that TV, then switch on my main TV with HDMI, the recording resets back to the beginning. If I am watching a live show that has some buffering, it also gets wiped out. Same thing happens if I change sources on the HDMI TV & go back to the DVR source - recordings reset to zero and all buffering is deleted.

I was very puzzled by all this but now that I know, I can plan for it.

Sara 1.90.5.110 8300 HDC, TWC Hawaii Panasonic TH50PC77U

I have an 8300HD with MDN and I'm considering adding a External Hard Drive.

Question: If I were to connect the STB to the TV via Component Cable instead of HDMI (to eliminate the handshake and prevent the STB from knowing if the TV is on or off), and always left the STB 'on', would Navigator still enter Sleep Mode or would it always stay 'Awake'?

It seems to me that it should always stay awake and continuously buffering since it would not know that someone is not watching all the time (regardless of the lack of remote control inputs).

I have an 8300HD with MDN and I'm considering adding a External Hard Drive.

Question: If I were to connect the STB to the TV via Component Cable instead of HDMI (to eliminate the handshake and prevent the STB from knowing if the TV is on or off), and always left the STB 'on', would Navigator still enter Sleep Mode or would it always stay 'Awake'?

It seems to me that it should always stay awake and continuously buffering since it would not know that someone is not watching all the time (regardless of the lack of remote control inputs).The reports I've seen seem to indicate that MDN is not affected by the sleep mode when using an external drive. To address your question: on ODN, the system will enter sleep mode even when left on. It occurs after 3 hours of inactivity.

Can we have a quick timeout here to discuss the meanings of the acronyms ODN and MDN...? I know that one is associated with the SA8300HD DVR and one with the SA8300HDC. Does it have something to do with Switched Digital Video? Does it have something to do with cable cards? Am I getting warmer...?

Can we have a quick timeout here to discuss the meanings of the acronyms ODN and MDN...? I know that one is associated with the SA8300HD DVR and one with the SA8300HDC. Does it have something to do with Switched Digital Video? Does it have something to do with cable cards? Am I getting warmer...?In this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13279232#post13279232) post, made back at the beginning of March, I summarized it:
...
In the press and internally, TWC refers to the two versions as "Mystro Digital Navigator" and "OCAP Digital Navigator" (aka, "MDN" and "ODN"); after all, they (and we) have to call them something different to distinguish between them. I suspect that the "MDN" monicker existed first and they just replaced "Mystro" with "OCAP" in their designation for the OCAP version when they started the port. It doesn't matter that the project which produced the two distinct sets of code has the umbrella name "Mystro", they are called "ODN" and "MDN" now, and only one of those acronyms makes direct reference to "Mystro".
...
MDN is written in C and runs on the same RTOS and middleware that Passport Echo does (which is probably much the same stuff as used by SARA); ODN is MDN rewritten in Java to run in the OCAP environment. Other OCAP apps can run with ODN, but there is no OCAP enivironment on boxes running MDN (no memory for that on the legacy SA STBs). ODN can also (theoretically at least ) be downloaded into and run by any OCAP-compliant device, like the new <tru2way> televisions and STBs headed for market this year; it has been demonstrated at product shows running on prototype OCAP-compliant televisions from Samsung.

The reports I've seen seem to indicate that MDN is not affected by the sleep mode when using an external drive. To address your question: on ODN, the system will enter sleep mode even when left on. It occurs after 3 hours of inactivity.

For me, it appears to be less than 30 minutes of inactivity (if I have any "space" between recordings, DVR locks up and only reboot helps). Maybe the length of time depends on the type of external drive (I have a cheap one), or maybe my box is quicker to get into sleep mode for some weird reason.

The reports I've seen seem to indicate that MDN is not affected by the sleep mode when using an external drive. To address your question: on ODN, the system will enter sleep mode even when left on. It occurs after 3 hours of inactivity.

Thank you. :)

... ODN can also (theoretically at least ) be downloaded into and run by any OCAP-compliant device, ...

Why, why, why would anyone voluntarily install Navigator on their own devices???? :eek:

Why, why, why would anyone voluntarily install Navigator on their own devices???? :eek:I have no idea. However, we can only hope that Navigator will not be the be-all and end-all of OCAP IPGs. For instance, Aptiv Digital showed off an OCAP version of Passport (http://www.aptivdigital.com/presscenter/pressreleasesdetail.asp?ID=8) two years ago; as I stated in a recent post, Passport is becoming the default IPG of Cox. TiVo ported the IPG that they created for Comcast to OCAP (Cox was also suppose to offer that IPG as a low-cost option).

Among the top three cable providers in the US, only Time Warner has chosen to flog its customers by forcing a crappy, inexpertly designed and profoundly poorly maintained IPG on them :rolleyes:.

WOW is a cable provider alternative (overlapping service area) here in Columbus and in several other cities that TWC competes in. WOW currently uses SARA. If they switched to Passport and advertised it, I bet they could easily steal half of TWC customers.

I'm still hesitant to switch to satellite due to bad weather reception problems. My folks have Dish and it seems like there's always a bad storm coming though at just the wrong time. Sure, Direct advertises that the signal is good 99% of the time, but the problem is that 1% almost always comes during some favorite prime-time show that you don't want to miss. It's been several years since I've had a single cable TV service outage with TWC, and the bundle pricing with RoadRunner and Phone is unbeatable. Plus, Dish still doesn't offer local HD channels in Columbus, and Direct doesn't offer the CW in HD (and I gotta have Smallville and Supernatural in HD!). :rolleyes:

Why, why, why would anyone voluntarily install Navigator on their own devices???? :eek:

well on the plus side at least you can theoretically use your own off-the-shelf DVR and then at least you won't be paying TWC.

If you are going to have to suffer Navigator you wouldn't have to send money to TWC for the privilege.

well on the plus side at least you can theoretically use your own off-the-shelf DVR and then at least you won't be paying TWC.

If you are going to have to suffer Navigator you wouldn't have to send money to TWC for the privilege.You'll be paying them something, just not as much. Your <tru2way> compliant television or STB will have to be supplied to M-Cards as leased by the cable company, and undoubtably there'll be some kind of monthly charge for using the IPG app (probably a "Guide Service" fee--precious television guide information is going to cost the cable providers something; then again, if you set up a Media Center PC, Microsoft gives guide info away for free). M-Card+Guide-Service will doubtless be significantly less than leasing an entire STB from them, though.

The cable providers and CE OEMs are still working on Downloadable Conditional Access System, and when its done and available, M-Card lease will go away as well as any installation fees for them.

Why, why, why would anyone voluntarily install Navigator on their own devices???? :eek:

I think the value of being able to run the cable company software in your TV is about accessing video on demand services such as pay-per-view, free video on demand or account services. If you believe in <tru2way>'s vision of the future, you'll also be able to use your TV somewhat like a PC by accessing things such as your e-mail, voting for your favorite Idol contestant during the show, or ordering online merchandise such as the pizza just advertised on the commercial during the ball game.

I have even seen discussion on the Tivo forums about how a <tru2way> compliant Tivo would be able to run the cable company provided IPG in addition to the Tivo software. You could use the Tivo software normally, but still access the cable company provided IPG to access things like pay-per-view, video on demand, or account management.

Now, if you don't need or want any of this, then no, there's probably no reason to run the cable company provided IPG on your TV or Tivo.

I think the value of being able to run the cable company software in your TV is about accessing video on demand services such as pay-per-view, free video on demand or account services. If you believe in <tru2way>'s vision of the future, you'll also be able to use your TV somewhat like a PC by accessing things such as your e-mail, voting for your favorite Idol contestant during the show, or ordering online merchandise such as the pizza just advertised on the commercial during the ball game.

I have even seen discussion on the Tivo forums about how a <tru2way> compliant Tivo would be able to run the cable company provided IPG in addition to the Tivo software. You could use the Tivo software normally, but still access the cable company provided IPG to access things like pay-per-view, video on demand, or account management.

Now, if you don't need or want any of this, then no, there's probably no reason to run the cable company provided IPG on your TV or Tivo.


The main question is: Why on earth would anyone WANT to run Navigator over the Tivo software?

If Tivo had a way to utilize the On Demand and PPV services of TWC, I would invest in a Tivo unit. I would rather see Tivo deploy it's own guide system that could be used in place of Navigator.

The main question is: Why on earth would anyone WANT to run Navigator over the Tivo software?

If Tivo had a way to utilize the On Demand and PPV services of TWC, I would invest in a Tivo unit. I would rather see Tivo deploy it's own guide system that could be used in place of Navigator.Unfortunately, TiVo is not given that choice. If they want built-in SDV tuning (and they really, really do), IPPV and VOD, they have to implement full-blown <tru2way>, and if you want to access IPPV and VOD using a <tru2way> TiVo, you'll have to do it by loading up the cable provider's IPG. This is a compromise; I'm sure that TiVo would love the ability to offer direct access to VOD and IPPV through their IPG, but they're not gonna get it. I'm sure that cable would love access to TiVo's DVR capabilities through their IPGs, but they're not gonna get that. Give a little, take a little--the cable industry gives them access to SDV tuning through software download, TiVo gives the cable industry the ability to try to sell random interactive services to their subscribers via an option to dynamically switch to their IPG.

The only thing that could happen that might change that design is if the FCC decides that the cable industry's Tuning Adapter gambit is not a sufficient alternative solution to the CEA's DCR+, and makes them implement DCR+. It could take a couple of years to complete the DCR+ standard and get a DCR+ TiVo to market, but it would give TiVo everything that they want without giving cable anything (well, they get to sell IPPV and pay VOD to TiVo users, just not in the fashion that they'd like to sell it; they do not get the ability to offer random other interactive services through TiVo, which they'd really like). There'd be no reason for TiVo to create the giant kludge that is <tru2way> TiVo, and in fact, not a lot of reason for any CE OEM to make <tru2way> products--it might well kill cable's dream of <tru2way>.

Right, that's my point. If the subscriber can still utilize VOD and PPV, they aren't really taking anything away from the cable company (other than a STB lease fee). Wasn't this the whole premise of Open Cable? Being able to allow third party manufacturers into the marketplace so the consumer wasn't anchored to the cable company.

For example, look at the Comcast/Tivo situation. It's still producing mixed results. This again gets me back to hardware having an impact on the software. Tivo programmers are no slouches and they have produced fantastic software that runs flawlessly (for the most part) on their OWN equipment. Logic says their has to be another factor in why trying to make it run on outdated and older equipment is encountering such problems. Sure, they now have to deal with integrated security and other things and one can make the argument that Aptiv works fine, but in the end you still have Tivo programmers as well as Navigator programmers having a bear of a time with each respective system. I honestly believe there is more than just bad code and general ineptness at work here. The true sign of that will be when the Cisco 8550 hits the market. If Navigator performs well on that while having consistent problems on other boxes, it will answer my question.

I know Tivo is the gold standard.A lot of us would love to still have Passport.Most Sara users waiting with fingers crossed about Navigator.Now haveing said that,this is the Navigator board.While many of your thoughts are valid and interesting we are geting off topic.Can we get back to talking about Navigator rather then what most of us in a perfect world would like to have.Navigator is a fact of life some have it others waiting.Maybe if we stick to Navigator TWC might take our suggestions to heart.

I hear you but my point is about Navigator being impacted by OpenCable. The other aspect of OpenCable is that any third party hardware would have to be able to run Navigator by taking it as a download. My point is, if Navigator can't even run on its own hardware, then how is it ever going to be a viable solution in a real world OpenCable platform? Supposedly, this was one of the reasons TWC gave for going with Navigator and thus it has bearing on this forum. The forum is all encompassing and should not be dedicated to only glitches and bugs.

Right, that's my point. If the subscriber can still utilize VOD and PPV, they aren't really taking anything away from the cable company (other than a STB lease fee). Wasn't this the whole premise of Open Cable? Being able to allow third party manufacturers into the marketplace so the consumer wasn't anchored to the cable company.It's to keep people from being shackled to leasing equipment from the cable company. They've almost gotten there, though you still have to lease CableCARDs from them. As I stated, leasing a DVR from TWC San Diego will cost you $18/month--leasing an M-Card for the TiVo HD that you own costs $1.75/month, less than 10% as much. When DCAS is done, you'll be able to buy <tru2way>/DCAS equipment with no lease fees from the cable providers (the cable companies wanted to delay the embedded security ban until DCAS could be finished so that they wouldn't have to use CableCARDs in their own equipment, but the FCC was having none of it, having already given them a two year extension on the previous deadline to finish the M-Card spec).

But that was it--Congress' Separable Security mandate was never about freeing you from your cable company, only about freeing you from having to lease equipment from them. You should be able to own your own equipment and move it from cable company to cable company and that's what they're gradually acheiving; the FCC forced a similar thing on the telcos, for which they implemented the modular phone jack (formerly, only leased telephone equipment could be used on their networks).

You can access linear programming with your equipment's own user-interface, but if you want access to the cable provider's interactive services, you'll have to use their UI, whether on equipment that you leased from them or as download into equipment that you own. That's just the way that it is, unless the FCC forces them to implement DCR+ (seems unlikely, given cable's preemptive strike with the Tuning Adapter).

I hear you but my point is about Navigator being impacted by OpenCable. The other aspect of OpenCable is that any third party hardware would have to be able to run Navigator by taking it as a download. My point is, if Navigator can't even run on its own hardware, then how is it ever going to be a viable solution in a real world OpenCable platform? Supposedly, this was one of the reasons TWC gave for going with Navigator and thus it has bearing on this forum. The forum is all encompassing and should not be dedicated to only glitches and bugs.

As far as I know, ODN Navigator runs stably on Cisco's 8550HDC, as was shown in a recent Consumer Electronics Show. Although ODN is missing a few features in MDN (ability to restrict recordings to certain times of day, and the ability of the guide to gray out items in the IPG that are totally in the past) and some of the bloat (the fade to black when you leave the guide in MDN), it ran stably during the show.

I found out these differences between MDN and ODN when I was allowed to try out an 8300HDC box in my local mall's Time Warner Cable kiosk.

As far as I know, ODN Navigator runs stably on Cisco's 8550HDC, as was shown in a recent Consumer Electronics Show. Although ODN is missing a few features in MDN (ability to restrict recordings to certain times of day, and the ability of the guide to gray out items in the IPG that are totally in the past) and some of the bloat (the fade to black when you leave the guide in MDN), it ran stably during the show.

I found out these differences between MDN and ODN when I was allowed to try out an 8300HDC box in my local mall's Time Warner Cable kiosk.It's inconceivable that an STB displaying Navigator at a product show wouldn't be running a version of Navigator way out beyond what's been certified for broad deployment in the field. It was doubtless a very recent build of Navigator running a recent build of whatever third-party OCAP platform that they're using, with hundreds of bugs, both big and small having since been repaired in both. I'd also expect that Cisco/SA's Explorer 8550 STBs use significantly faster processors, improving the responsiveness of the GUI. Proves absolutely nothing about whether this hardware can do a much better job, which I'm sure that it can.

I don't know how the cable companies work with their hardware suppliers, but I worked on firmware running in cell phones. Back when I was doing that, Verizon's acceptance testing process took several months--by the time a version of our firmware was certified to be distributed, we were miles down the road, having fixed a few hundred bugs and added a bunch of new features to be rolled out in versions on new products. Certainly anything that we took to product shows was running out latest and greatest.

And finally, how stable the software and hardware that you saw displayed will be isn't even hinted at by performance at a product show. Wait until its in the hands of hundreds of thousands of users in the field--that's when the bugs creep out of the woodwork, so to speak.

The Consumer Electronics Show is held at Las Vegas Convention Center....which is in COMCAST territory.

While I saw several tru2way STB/DVR/iDTV demos, they were ALL using local COMCAST...hence no Navigator demos:
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/ces2008

You must be referring to some other "Demo"....which is only briefly observed with only a few functions demo'ed....

I have yet to hear of ANY Cisco 8550HDC's in user's hands.....

I have read several conflicting things on the following 2 topics and was wondering if someone could give me a solid answer. I am supposed to be upgraded to Navigator this weekend. I am in Cincinnati

1. Manual recordings - I travel a lot sometimes and gone for 3 weeks or so. Many times there are football games that I need to create a manual recording for because they dont show up in the guide because its too far out and the guide only downloads for a week or so. Is this not a possibility anymore? Will I not be able to set my college football games to record several weeks in advance?

2. Some people have said that its not possible to set a fixed resolution. For example - I want everything outputted from the cable box to be 1080i and 1080 only. Is this possible? Some have also said they have tried but the box loses their choice when they power off and have to redo everything.

I have an 8300HD

Thanks

Tony

The Consumer Electronics Show is held at Las Vegas Convention Center....which is in COMCAST territory.

While I saw several tru2way STB/DVR/iDTV demos, they were ALL using local COMCAST...hence no Navigator demosYou'd think that they'd be able to set up a cable network simulation to be used for such displays. I have no doubt that such things exist--I worked on such simulations for (on contract at Motorola on an iDen basestation simulator) and at the company where I worked on cell phone firmware we had an actual RF-isolated CDMA basestation in a lab.

Oh well--a bit off topic. Scucilo.

I have read several conflicting things on the following 2 topics and was wondering if someone could give me a solid answer. I am supposed to be upgraded to Navigator this weekend. I am in Cincinnati

1. Manual recordings - I travel a lot sometimes and gone for 3 weeks or so. Many times there are football games that I need to create a manual recording for because they dont show up in the guide because its too far out and the guide only downloads for a week or so. Is this not a possibility anymore? Will I not be able to set my college football games to record several weeks in advance?

2. Some people have said that its not possible to set a fixed resolution. For example - I want everything outputted from the cable box to be 1080i and 1080 only. Is this possible? Some have also said they have tried but the box loses their choice when they power off and have to redo everything.

I have an 8300HD

Thanks

Tony


No, there is no way to create manual recordings in Navigator.
Yes, this is possible if you use component cables. I have a dinosaur of a rear-projection CRT HD monitor whose only HD input is component video and have it set to 1080i only this way because the scaler in the 8300HD box is much better than the one in the HD monitor. I do not know if you can do this with HDMI because my TV was built before HDMI or DVI were even defined.

I have read several conflicting things on the following 2 topics and was wondering if someone could give me a solid answer. I am supposed to be upgraded to Navigator this weekend. I am in Cincinnati

1. Manual recordings - I travel a lot sometimes and gone for 3 weeks or so. Many times there are football games that I need to create a manual recording for because they dont show up in the guide because its too far out and the guide only downloads for a week or so. Is this not a possibility anymore? Will I not be able to set my college football games to record several weeks in advance?

2. Some people have said that its not possible to set a fixed resolution. For example - I want everything outputted from the cable box to be 1080i and 1080 only. Is this possible? Some have also said they have tried but the box loses their choice when they power off and have to redo everything.

I have an 8300HD

Thanks

Tony
I too live in Cincinnati and my 3250hd cable box was upgraded to navigator this week. You are able to select the resolution in the settings and so far I've not had any issues with it losing my chosen resolution of 1080i. My Tv is hooked up with a DVI to HDMI cable. Now with that said, I also have an Explorer 4250HDC cable box on another Tv hooked up with an HDMI cable and when I turn the tv off and then back on the cable box will display a 720P picture. Even if I am tuned to a 1080i station. The only way I've found to stop this is to have multiple resolutions selected in the settings menu and then change stations to one with a different resolution and then change the station back. Then everything works fine. With the 8300HD I don't know how it will react.

Thanks for the responses everyone

I also just read on another board that the # button that allows you to change the picture form normal, stretch and zoom is gone.

Is this true? That was one of my favorite features!

Tony

Thanks for the responses everyone

I also just read on another board that the # button that allows you to change the picture form normal, stretch and zoom is gone.

Is this true? That was one of my favorite features!

Tony

Still works for me although now you don't get the onscreen information to tell you which aspect you are using.

I'm sorry if this has already been answered, but I can't find this issue in this lengthy thread.

In short, TWC recently changed the software on my DVR to Navigator and I now have an interesting issue: all the audio except the subwoofer channel drops out during national commercials on NBC and ABC (there could be more, but I have not noticed). Audio is multi-channel and flawless during the show, and then drops out during national commercials. When there is a local commercial, the audio starts back up.

Any ideas why or how to fix it? It's not like I really care if I'm missing something important, it's just REALLY annoying. I never had the issue before the software was switched to Navigator. I consider myself to be an expert in AV equipment, so I know I'm not missing something small. Audio is being output as digital over optical and is fed to a 7.1 Denon receiver. All audio with any other source or any other channel is flawless.

Still works for me although now you don't get the onscreen information to tell you which aspect you are using.

They screwed with this somehow. I was reasonably content with my HDC for at least half a year, but in the last two weeks, problem after problem has popped up. Zoom is one of them.

[8300HDC / HDMI / Sony 32KDSL130]

1. In the past, I would once or twice a month have a problem where when I exited the program guide, the small picture in the top right would remain small, and the rest of the screen black. Since two weeks back, this is happening just about every other time. (PIP ON, PIP OFF gets the normal picture back)

2. During the past two weeks, the picture has just plain frozen a half-dozen times. If I swap channels back and forth, everything will be fine again.

3. I'm an aspect ratio purist - and for month and months months, everything was fine. Nice black sidebars on 4.3, etc. For 16:9 shows on 4:3 channels, I was able to do a straight zoom and get a full screen with no distortion.
Then one day a couple of weeks when I did that, everything was slightly off when I did that - looked like a strange mix of 'smart' stretching and squeezing - everything slightly too thin, and uneven from side to side.
Trying to fix that, I noticed that the HDC was set to output 4:3 not 16:9. Thinking this was the source of the problems, I tried to change this. Bad idea. Even on the 8300HD, changing that setting caused havoc.
Several hours of profuse swearing, 16,536,129 combinations and two dozen reboots later (including various aspect/input settings on the TV), I'm no closer to normal. Even tried to go back to component, but not much difference.
Aside from all the other strangeness, it became clear that aspect/zoom (#) on the HDC no longer does what it used to. Seems to only work on 4:3 output, and then with no labels.

Problems #1 and #2 suggest to me that either my box is dying, or there's a new version of software on the HDC that's a disaster (I'm ignoring #3 for now because I'll have an anyeurism if I continue to think about it).

I would swap out my box asap, but I'd lose stored shows and I have almost zero confidence that anything would get better.

2. Some people have said that its not possible to set a fixed resolution. For example - I want everything outputted from the cable box to be 1080i and 1080 only. Is this possible? Some have also said they have tried but the box loses their choice when they power off and have to redo everything.

I have an 8300HD with navigator & HDMI connection. Settings, display, output resolutions: will allow you to choose the output resolutions just like Passport did. Except: my TV doesn't support 480i over HDMI, Passport would not allow me to select it. Navigator allows 480i which causes my TV to show nothing. I also have composite connection, so I changed TV to that input & fixed the problem

Successful external hard drive
SA8240HDC got from TWC with Navigator already installed
v2.4.9_3

Here's my story. I had an 8300HD box with Passport with external drive connected Enclosure: APRICORN EZ-BUS-DTS-EKIT 3.5" USB 2.0 & eSATA External Enclosure
Drive: Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD7500AAKS 750GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
I went and got an SA8240HDC from them and put it in my living room so for about 1 month I had both Passport in my bedroom on the 8300HD with the external drive and the SA8240HDC in the living room.

One morning I woke up to find my 8300HD box in the process of "converting settings" and "converting recordings". The problem was that exactly every 5 minutes it rebooted itself and kept going through the boot and convert sequence. I let this go on for a day while I was at work. I came home and unplugged it for a day and tried it again still with the same result. I tried doing this with my external drive connected and disconnected and that had zero effect on anything.

So I called tech support and decided to schedule an appointment when the rep told me that the tech may be able to connect to the cable box locally and reboot it with success. About 10 days later the guy came out here and I showed him what my box was doing. He actually was a TWC employee and not a contractor... he indicated that my box was showing promise because it was making it to the blue screen that says converting settings and converting recordings. I asked him if he's had to replace a lot of the 8300HD's and he said he has... that a lot of them weren't taking the upgrade. He didn't seem to want to bother trying to diagnose the box, but rather just drop in the 8240HDC. I said alright. Although I had almost 1TB of shows and movies (and the Space Shuttle Endeavour launch recorded in HD which I watched in person) I didn't want to lose.

Well at this point I now had two of the 8240HDC boxes, both connected to Samsung LCD TV's (a 40" 720P and 46" 1080P). I have been using both boxes and experience the same resolution problems everyone else is having for 2 weeks now. Last night I decided to try connecting my 750 GB external drive again to see if I would be able to use it with the box and version of Navigator.

First I unplugged the box, waited about 10 seconds, turned on my external drive. The box then turned on after about 5 minutes and I got this message:

"Attention! The drive is used by different Set-top. Please press A key to reformat the drive or C key to exit". I chose to reformat the drive. Then it quickly came back with the message "Attention! An external hard drive has been detected and is ready for use To disconnect the external hard drive, you should wait at least 10 sec after powering off the settop".

I confirmed that the box is actually recording to the external hard drive because the activity light is flickering, also I have recorded 7 hours of HD programming and only show 4% full in my list of programs. Having that external drive work was by-far the most important thing for me, I can live with all the other annoyances!

... until the next rollout!

Great news that it works with Navigator 2.4.9_3. You need post this in the results as no one has yet posted success with that version...
http://baseportal.com/cgi-bin/baseportal.pl?htx=/xnappo/navigator

Is this the enclosure you have?
http://www.alwayslowest.com/AL/index.cfm?fuseaction=shop.dspSpecs&part=1711590

Great news that it works with Navigator 2.4.9_3. You need post this in the results as no one has yet posted success with that version...
http://baseportal.com/cgi-bin/baseportal.pl?htx=/xnappo/navigator

Is this the enclosure you have?
http://www.alwayslowest.com/AL/index.cfm?fuseaction=shop.dspSpecs&part=1711590

The eSATA drives work fine when just connected to a 2.4.9_3 box. Turn the box off with nothing scheduled to record for a few hours (say, overnight). If in the morning it works fine (not frozen and requiring a reboot), they might have fixed it and I'd be thrilled (or jealous, if it is due to 8300HDC vs SA8240HDC differences).

Sigh, still having reliability issues with recordings.
I set the DVR to record all 3 Indiana Jones movies tonight. We watched the first after it had finished recording. We then started watching the 2nd about 20 minutes before it was to end. Whatever "magical" thing I did when I started watching the 2nd movie effectively stopped it recording and we didn't get those last 20 minutes (fortunately it's on again tomorrow). Odd thing was, while we were watching, the record light was on, but clearly the yellow bar was no longer moving and in fact it did not record the ending. So far it seems the 3rd movie has and continues to be recording fine.

I know I started watching a couple of shows during the week while it was still recording and those turned out fine, so like I said, I'm not sure what was different this time that caused it to stop. Pretty IPGs and nice search features are all well and good, but TWC has really got to figure out these recording failures.

Looks like TWC NEO screwed the pooch pretty good this morning. I had been watching TV for a couple hours without incident. Somewhere around 1 or 2 A.M. I left the TV for a while, and when I returned the screen was blank and the STB was on A/T (AiT). I let it sit, but no L14. I powered off/on but same results, stuck on A/T.

First call to support - listened to recordings for a while saying all techs are busy, no answer, no offer to "call me back when it's my turn". Finally the recording just stopped, dead air, call not lost, just silence.

I finally gave up and called back, This time there was a new recording apologizing for the problem and stating there is a widespread outage all over NE Ohio for the Digital boxes, with various messages being displayed, and that technicians have been dispatched. :rolleyes:

I wonder if they were sending a great new software load and something went wrong. It sure seems like something like that.

Anybody else in NE Ohio having problems?

-Marty

p.s. My DVR also failed on a couple of scheduled recordings this week due to "Channel not available". I had not had this problem for a couple of months.

UPDATE: The box completed its boot-up about a half hour ago and is now showing v2.4.9.3, th same as we had before. So either they backed out the change and put us back on the old version or a software update was not the reason for the problem.

I was recently upgraded to Navigator on 2 boxes (8300HD and 3250HD). My preference is for the channel to show in the display when I'm watching and the time to show when the box is off. In Passport, if you set the clock options to "channel always", this is how it worked. However if I use this option in Navigator, it shows the channel even when the box is off. If I turn the box on and then off quickly, the time will show but it doesn't stick. An hour or so later the box switches back to showing the channel. This has to be a bug since it does this on both boxes. Is TW aware of this bug?

read the past 7 pages or so and didn't see this one.

with passport, if you paused a show, it would go into a sort of 'screen saver' mode where a small image of the frame would dance around on a gray background. this was a very nice feature to prevent burn in.

with the update, this doesn't seem to happen. on one box, it stays on the frame forever (or at least a few hours that i tested it), and on the other after some intermediate period of time, perhaps 0.5-1 hr, it blacks out the 4:3 center of the screen with a 'hit any button to continue' image. the rest of the 16:9 image on the sides still show a static image.

any idea how to get this back? i didn't see anything in the menu. otherwise, i echo everyone's aggrevation, particularly around the ff/rew bugs/functionality since i hardly ever watch live tv.

To be devil's advocate, if you set it to channel always, why would you think it's a bug that it always shows the channel? And it's a bug because it's consistent on both boxes? Just because it's not what Passport did doesn't automatically make it a bug. It could make it a Passport patent however. It's hard to know what Aptiv might have patented from their IPG. Might be interesting to do a patent search when I'm bored and see what turns up.
Nonetheless, I do agree that showing the channel when the box is off is useless.

read the past 7 pages or so and didn't see this one.

with passport, if you paused a show, it would go into a sort of 'screen saver' mode where a small image of the frame would dance around on a gray background. this was a very nice feature to prevent burn in.

with the update, this doesn't seem to happen. on one box, it stays on the frame forever (or at least a few hours that i tested it), and on the other after some intermediate period of time, perhaps 0.5-1 hr, it blacks out the 4:3 center of the screen with a 'hit any button to continue' image. the rest of the 16:9 image on the sides still show a static image.

any idea how to get this back? i didn't see anything in the menu. otherwise, i echo everyone's aggrevation, particularly around the ff/rew bugs/functionality since i hardly ever watch live tv.

Mine does the exact same thing. I guess this is another short coming of Navigator.

To be devil's advocate, if you set it to channel always, why would you think it's a bug that it always shows the channel? And it's a bug because it's consistent on both boxes? Just because it's not what Passport did doesn't automatically make it a bug. It could make it a Passport patent however. It's hard to know what Aptiv might have patented from their IPG. Might be interesting to do a patent search when I'm bored and see what turns up.
Nonetheless, I do agree that showing the channel when the box is off is useless.
The reason that I think it is a bug is because when I turn off the box, the time shows for just a moment and then it displays the channel. Also, the fact that I can then turn the box on and then off and it will show the time for several hours and revert back to the channel shows me that they intended it to work like Passport but just didn't get it right. I don't see any logical reason for the channel and resolution (i.e. 1080i) to show when the box is off.

Successful external hard drive
SA8240HDC got from TWC with Navigator already installed
v2.4.9_3


One morning I woke up to find my 8300HD box in the process of "converting settings" and "converting recordings". The problem was that exactly every 5 minutes it rebooted itself and kept going through the boot and convert sequence. I let this go on for a day while I was at work. I came home and unplugged it for a day and tried it again still with the same result. I tried doing this with my external drive connected and disconnected and that had zero effect on anything.



I had the same issue with my system, an external hard drive and constant rebooting. It seems that the 8300HD needs a better connection to the system to update software than to function normally. A "knowledgeable person" advised me to try moving the box to another location in my house which is behind fewer splitters and has a more direct path. The box quickly downloaded the new software and installed it. I moved it back to the original location and hooked up my external drive. It recognized the external drive and converted the recordings. All is now well.

By hooking up your external drive to another box, you deleted all data on the drive. I'd rather buy another drive.

read the past 7 pages or so and didn't see this one.

with passport, if you paused a show, it would go into a sort of 'screen saver' mode where a small image of the frame would dance around on a gray background. this was a very nice feature to prevent burn in.

with the update, this doesn't seem to happen. on one box, it stays on the frame forever (or at least a few hours that i tested it), and on the other after some intermediate period of time, perhaps 0.5-1 hr, it blacks out the 4:3 center of the screen with a 'hit any button to continue' image. the rest of the 16:9 image on the sides still show a static image.

any idea how to get this back? i didn't see anything in the menu. otherwise, i echo everyone's aggrevation, particularly around the ff/rew bugs/functionality since i hardly ever watch live tv.

Yep, the screen saver issue has been discussed in one Navigator thread or another; I know I've brought it up before. A screen saver for a DVR is mandatory and simple to implement, but it's utterly ludicrous for an HD DVR not to protect for a 16x9 image. It's like I've said before, there doesn't appear to be any quality control at TWC for the Navigator program. Something as boneheaded as this should have been caught in beta testing, if it even got that far.

Something as boneheaded as this should have been caught in beta testing, if it even got that far.Ah, but don't you know - they are still in beta testing! :rolleyes:

I have seen, through posts in this thread and others, that TW has been rolling out Navigator all over the country for quite a while. I thought that the Raleigh/Durham area being way down on the list for the update would be a good thing because it would allow time for them to work out all of the bugs before it got to me. Not so. I see some of the bugs and shortcomings now that I have been reading about for over a year. It seems that TW has been on a quest to roll out Navigator ready or not. I'm sure that Navigator is an attempt to save money on their part with very little regard for quality . From responses that I have read from TW, they are completely unapologetic for the lack of quality. Their attitude has been "deal with it".

It seems that TW has been on a quest to roll out Navigator ready or not. I'm sure that Navigator is an attempt to save money on their part with very little regard for quality . From responses that I have read from TW, they are completely unapologetic for the lack of quality. Their attitude has been "deal with it".

That's only the "behind the scenes" attitude, never to see the light of day. Publicly, their stance on Navigator has been that it's a more "personalized digital cable experience" and it's a "new way to discover all digital cable has to offer". What that means is Navigator gives them a way to push more interactive services and customized marketing on us, their beloved customer base. Because nothing is more important than enhancing and broadening their revenue streams, which increases shareholder value. And after all, nothing is more important in our economy these days than increasing shareholder value, as we keep being told. Certainly not, you know, providing the best cable TV service to your customers who pay dearly for it. Which, silly me, is all I really want out of my TV provider. :rolleyes:

I have an 8300hdc with navigator. Is it possible to set it to boot on power-up? I have a lot of mini-glitches and the box doesn't turn back on afterwards. It appears the box won't record anything until manually powered on. Its pretty stupid to have to buy an ups just for the box.

and on the other after some intermediate period of time, perhaps 0.5-1 hr, it blacks out the 4:3 center of the screen with a 'hit any button to continue' image. the rest of the 16:9 image on the sides still show a static image.

.

this is how mine behaves except it's closer to 10 - 15 min after the pause.

not a very good screen saver IMO.

but its a non issue for me. i rarely pause for more than 5 minutes.

Yep, the screen saver issue has been discussed in one Navigator thread or another; I know I've brought it up before. A screen saver for a DVR is mandatory and simple to implement, but it's utterly ludicrous for an HD DVR not to protect for a 16x9 image. It's like I've said before, there doesn't appear to be any quality control at TWC for the Navigator program. Something as boneheaded as this should have been caught in beta testing, if it even got that far.

Isn't this a hardware issue? I thought the current boxes only support graphics at the SD resolution and not until the 8550 does it support the full 16:9 space. It's the same reason the guide doesn't utilize the full space.

It appears they had to push out Navigator to areas using Passport in order to accomodate SDV which is needed NOW to add more HD channels.

Sara users can wait longer for a more bug-free Navigator because Sara already works with SDV, call waiting, & expander drive. The only thing Sara lacks is a search function, but for me that is the lowest priortity because I can do a better search on my PC than any DVR software. Functionality and recording reliability is key & for those Sara Delivers.

Bottom Line: TWC was caught in a bind. They could have replaced Passport boxes with SARA until Navigator was perfected, but that would mean changing those customer's software twice. I can understand their dilema.

I have seen, through posts in this thread and others, that TW has been rolling out Navigator all over the country for quite a while. I thought that the Raleigh/Durham area being way down on the list for the update would be a good thing because it would allow time for them to work out all of the bugs before it got to me. Not so. I see some of the bugs and shortcomings now that I have been reading about for over a year. It seems that TW has been on a quest to roll out Navigator ready or not. I'm sure that Navigator is an attempt to save money on their part with very little regard for quality . From responses that I have read from TW, they are completely unapologetic for the lack of quality. Their attitude has been "deal with it".

What responses from TWC? I certainly wouldn't count what a CSR tells anyone over the phone. It's been clear they've been clueless since forever, so I highly doubt they have any idea what goes on in development.

While upgrades in the Raleigh/Durham are recent, I got my box back in December and it was running Navigator then. I've only gotten one upgrade since then. It fixed some stuff and broke others. My *guess* is that development is overwhelmed by the different hardware platforms they're being asked to support because management has unrealistic expectations.

What responses from TWC? .........

I don't count any response from a TW no-service representative. I don't remember where in this thread or possibly another one, but someone posted an article that was in a newspaper from a TW person a little further up their food chain, and I was struck by how absolutely unapologetic this person was about Navigator. You would think that for a newspaper article, they would have used their BS spin. These are not the exact words but the gist of it was "Yes, we know that Navigator is crap, but that's what we have so live with it". I don't know however if that person still works for TW :)

The eSATA drives work fine when just connected to a 2.4.9_3 box. Turn the box off with nothing scheduled to record for a few hours (say, overnight). If in the morning it works fine (not frozen and requiring a reboot), they might have fixed it and I'd be thrilled (or jealous, if it is due to 8300HDC vs SA8240HDC differences).

I have experienced this two times since i made the post about the external hard drive working. The first time my screen stayed black when I turned it on and I tried rebooting several times and got stuck at a screen that said service should be available momentarily... then I called the 877 number and it said they had some kind of problem with the boxes in North East Ohio.

After it finally recovered the channels in the morning i had lost about 10 hours of stuff I had recorded as a test, but the external drive was still functioning. I happened again today i turned on my tv after the box had been off and i got the black screen again. I unplugged the box and it rebooted after only 1 try and I still had the recordings. Is the work-around to just leave the cable box on?

Just to restate what I have: I have the OCRAP / SA8240 box, navigator 2.4.9_3, my external drive is a western digital in an apricorn esata enclosure

I don't count any response from a TW no-service representative. I don't remember where in this thread or possibly another one, but someone posted an article that was in a newspaper from a TW person a little further up their food chain, and I was struck by how absolutely unapologetic this person was about Navigator. You would think that for a newspaper article, they would have used their BS spin. These are not the exact words but the gist of it was "Yes, we know that Navigator is crap, but that's what we have so live with it". I don't know however if that person still works for TW :)

Yeah, I remember that article now too. I guess what threw me was "responses" (plural) as if we'd been getting many of these from TWC. I honestly wish we would hear from someone because then I'd at least have a place to direct comments because trying to give feedback to a CSR is sending information into a black hole. I know some of the local TWC websites have a feedback form, but a) we don't have one here and b) it feels like the proverbial bit bucket. My kingdom for a Navigator bugzilla database. ;)

As for the article, going from memory, I think the TWC person was effectively asked if they would rollback Navigator and put Passport/SARA back on customers boxes to which the reply was no, this is the way things are headed and there's no turning back. Not a customer friendly response to be sure, but an understandable one from their perspective. I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with the fact that it is taking way too long to fix problems that are readily apparent. As I've mentioned earlier, I've had Navigator for 6 months and only one update in that time. That's just not enough for the number of problems they have. It also bugs me that for what they push as a common platform, why are different regions at such different software levels? On another message board, someone mentioned having fade in/out menus and a feature whereby if you tuned to an SD channel with an HD equivalent, you would be informed with the option to switch. Maybe that's an MDN-only feature, but the differences between MDN and ODN is also annoying. As a biased programmer myself, I fault project management for this situation. ;)

I have experienced this two times since i made the post about the external hard drive working. The first time my screen stayed black when I turned it on and I tried rebooting several times and got stuck at a screen that said service should be available momentarily... then I called the 877 number and it said they had some kind of problem with the boxes in North East Ohio.

After it finally recovered the channels in the morning i had lost about 10 hours of stuff I had recorded as a test, but the external drive was still functioning. I happened again today i turned on my tv after the box had been off and i got the black screen again. I unplugged the box and it rebooted after only 1 try and I still had the recordings. Is the work-around to just leave the cable box on?

Just to restate what I have: I have the OCRAP / SA8240 box, navigator 2.4.9_3, my external drive is a western digital in an apricorn esata enclosure

It's a known issue with 2.4.9_3 (at least on 8300HDC), you can search this thread for sleep mode. Basically, the box goes to sleep after some time of inactivity, whether the box is on or off. Once it goes to sleep, the external drive connection gets messed up and then the box would not wake up properly (even if you have something scheduled to record) until it is rebooted. Most people gave up on external drives until this gets fixed. Stubborn ones like me use a workaround (forgot who suggested it): keep the box busy at all times. What I do is record local weather channel 24/7 (it appears as a bunch of 4 hour shows with the same name, so one series recording handles it). Means that when I have two shows that I want to record at the same time, I have to turn off weather channel recording for that slot and find something else to record in the empty slots. It is a pain, but it is too much hasle to lose eSATA now.

Because my mother speaks English as a second language, she needs the closed captioning. However, under certain circumstances, using DVR functionality can cause crashes while closed captioning is on. Here are the steps to induce a crash in MDN 2.4.1-92 if this software and not corruption during the software change is to blame:

Turn on closed captioning.
Record something live that fills the screen up with closed captions in HD, like a news program or a morning show like Good Morning America. The live part is important because if the show was taped, the people doing closed captioning will have lots of time to clean up the captions so that they do not clutter up the screen. Live shows do not allow them to do much cleanup because they are too busy typing to spend much time in cleanup.
After the show is done recording, tune to an HD channel in case the channel you are watching is not an HD channel.
Play back the recorded program.
Fast forward or rewind.
You might need to go back to playing the recording at normal speed.
The cable box then crashes and reboots.

I know that most people do not need closed captioning, but people who speak English as a second language need closed captioning to help them look up unfamiliar words in their two-way dictionaries, and some deaf people can't read lips that well (e.g. a soldier who just got a medical discharge because his hearing got ruined in a war and therefore has had no time to learn how to read lips).

On another message board, someone mentioned having fade in/out menus and a feature whereby if you tuned to an SD channel with an HD equivalent, you would be informed with the option to switch. Maybe that's an MDN-only feature, but the differences between MDN and ODN is also annoying.

MDN here.

Fading menus - yes. (Which I find an annoyingly slow transition method)

Switch to HD channel notification - no.

What really bugs me about Navigator is the recording options.On Sara we have- New,All Episodes,On this day in this timeslot,On this timeslot any day, plus manual recordings with numerious options.Why on earth would Navigator drop manual recording if it gives fewer recording options than either Sara or Passport.A manual recording feature could solve a lot of Navigator problems until they got other recording options added to equal Sara or Passport.Once again TWC drops the ball big time.

Hi, TW in Columbus, OH - 8300HDC.

I looked back 10 pages and didn't see this.

Before when scheduling a series recording you could choose "Any channel" or just the channel you originally found it on.

Many of my scheduled recordings were done with the "Any Channel" option. I can not find that on the new software and it required me to load multiple scheduled recordings. (IE: Family guy on both Fox and Cartoon Network).

This really sucks as I love old TV and you never know where "Mission Impossible" may show up. By being able to choose "Any Channel" I could find out when a station was starting to air that program.

Am I just missing it?

Oh ya, I hate this new software.

PS: I just noted that i am listed as a "new member" who joined 6 years ago! Clearly I am a lurker not a poster.

Hi, TW in Columbus, OH - 8300HDC.

I looked back 10 pages and didn't see this.

Before when scheduling a series recording you could choose "Any channel" or just the channel you originally found it on.

Many of my scheduled recordings were done with the "Any Channel" option. I can not find that on the new software and it required me to load multiple scheduled recordings. (IE: Family guy on both Fox and Cartoon Network).

This really sucks as I love old TV and you never know where "Mission Impossible" may show up. By being able to choose "Any Channel" I could find out when a station was starting to air that program.

Am I just missing it?

Oh ya, I hate this new software.

PS: I just noted that i am listed as a "new member" who joined 6 years ago! Clearly I am a lurker not a poster.

You can not do that. If they allowed crazy stuff like that, they would have to recognize that the same show may be on, at the same time, on analog, digital SD and HD version of a channel, and ask you which one of the three you'd like recorded, maybe even ask you what to do in general if that situation arises. That's way too much work for their staff which is too busy adding really useful new features (I haven't seen any in nine months, except the admittedly nice new Ait display) or making the box more stable (they broke eSATA support, HDMI resolution thing and scheduling of only New episodes; on the plus side, using the box when two tuners are busy works fine now - that is really needed now to go with the "record something all the time" workaround; can't say they are not thinking of us). :mad:

Might be also related to the stuff like "you can not schedule anything not currently in the guide" (say you just got a box and want to record Lost a week from Thursday; you have to wait until Friday to schedule it, even though you know the title and the channel and the time slot), "you can not schedule a manual recording" (we want to be behind VCRs on this feature), and "you can not search by anything other than the beginning of the title". That's all designed to be as easy to code as possible, with no regard whatsoever to the user. They apparently have no confidence in the abilities of those programmers, and, maybe, I can't quite blame them for that.

TWC victim in Raleigh/Durham with 8300HD box. Ever since the "upgrade", most all HD channels take 2-3 seconds to appear when changing channels (screen goes black and/or flashes in and out).

Also, when changing the HD channels, after the channel comes up it randomly cuts in and out (very frustrating and always seems to happen at the worst moments). No rhyme or reason on the channels cutting in and out but the delay when switching channels happens almost always.

Lastly, when I first turn the TV on (box is already on) I get a message saying something to the effect of your TV does not support DVI HDCP or something. I press the A button but I then have to deal with the issues above.

HELP!

Bottom Line: TWC was caught in a bind.o they weren't! Aptiv, (Passport developers) had a version of Passport available with all these features - it was simply a TW management decision NOT to pay Aptiv and instead develope their own.
They could have replaced Passport boxes with SARA until Navigator was perfected, but that would mean changing those customer's software twice.That is not true either. The operating software needs to work with the rest of the system. It would be a very major change to move from a system running Passport to one running SARA.

AGAIN: The decision to move to Navigator was NOT done because TW was in any different bind than all the other cable companies. It was their own (stupid, it now turns out) decision.

This needs to be said every now and then.

o they weren't! Aptiv, (Passport developers) had a version of Passport available with all these features - it was simply a TW management decision NOT to pay Aptiv and instead develope their own.
That is not true either. The operating software needs to work with the rest of the system. It would be a very major change to move from a system running Passport to one running SARA.

AGAIN: The decision to move to Navigator was NOT done because TW was in any different bind than all the other cable companies. It was their own (stupid, it now turns out) decision.

This needs to be said every now and then.
Good Points. Yes, I assumed they wouldn't want to continue to paying Aptiv for an upgraded Passport.

RE: Providing Sara to Passport boxes: - Are you saying that a given Cable service area can support either Sara OR Passport but not both? I thought I've seen posts from users in a given area using either, but could be mistaken.

Bottom Lline: Yes they created their own bind.

.......(I haven't seen any in nine months, except the admittedly nice new Ait display) or making the box more stable (they broke eSATA support, .......

Not sure I understand what you're saying here. Basically, eSATA support in Navigator is exactly the same as it was under Passport and SARA, i.e. it works. You even get the buffers and trick-play back. What was taken away was the ability to FF or REW in 15 minute chunks by holding down the RR or REW buttons (with Passport, you hit the arrow keys while in FF or REW mode to accomplish that function) on DVR's with expansion drives hooked up. This has already been covered in this thread and others, including the expansion drive thread.

Stubborn ones like me use a workaround (forgot who suggested it): keep the box busy at all times. What I do is record local weather channel 24/7 (it appears as a bunch of 4 hour shows with the same name, so one series recording handles it). Means that when I have two shows that I want to record at the same time, I have to turn off weather channel recording for that slot and find something else to record in the empty slots. It is a pain, but it is too much hasle to lose eSATA now.

Thanks for that Great tip! We all know that when the free space on the box and the external drive are the same then the recordings go to whichever has more free space... Does this trick still work when the box is only recording to the its own internal drive and not the external drive?

Not sure I understand what you're saying here. Basically, eSATA support in Navigator is exactly the same as it was under Passport and SARA, i.e. it works.

It is broken in ODN, though it seems to work with MDN.

With ODN (HDC) the box locks up when it goes into sleep mode when an external HD is attached.

xnappo

Not sure I understand what you're saying here. Basically, eSATA support in Navigator is exactly the same as it was under Passport and SARA, i.e. it works. You even get the buffers and trick-play back. What was taken away was the ability to FF or REW in 15 minute chunks by holding down the RR or REW buttons (with Passport, you hit the arrow keys while in FF or REW mode to accomplish that function) on DVR's with expansion drives hooked up. This has already been covered in this thread and others, including the expansion drive thread.

I currently have MDN on my 8300HD box (NOT HDC) with external hard drive connected an my 15 minute jumps work by holding down FF/REW buttons on the remote. Don't know about the ODN version, but it takes a bit of getting used to when in Passport I was used to hitting the Left or Right arrow buttons.

TWC Mid-Ohio/Columbus Division SA8300HD

Bottom Line: TWC was caught in a bind. They could have replaced Passport boxes with SARA until Navigator was perfected, but that would mean changing those customer's software twice. I can understand their dilema.

mine was changed twice.
i signed up for hd and dvr service when our Adelphia system had just gotten bought out by TWC. at that time i had SARA and the bill was coming from TWC but everything else was still adelphias stuff and TWC was in the process of changing it over.. a few months later Twc pushed through Passport and a few months after that i got Navigatored. i would have much rather stayed with SARA until Navigator was debugged and wouldn't have mined at all to have had to gone back to SARA.

Because my mother speaks English as a second language, she needs the closed captioning. However, under certain circumstances, using DVR functionality can cause crashes while closed captioning is on. Here are the steps to induce a crash in MDN 2.4.1-92 if this software and not corruption during the software change is to blame:

Turn on closed captioning.
Record something live that fills the screen up with closed captions in HD, like a news program or a morning show like Good Morning America. The live part is important because if the show was taped, the people doing closed captioning will have lots of time to clean up the captions so that they do not clutter up the screen. Live shows do not allow them to do much cleanup because they are too busy typing to spend much time in cleanup.
After the show is done recording, tune to an HD channel in case the channel you are watching is not an HD channel.
Play back the recorded program.
Fast forward or rewind.
You might need to go back to playing the recording at normal speed.
The cable box then crashes and reboots.

I know that most people do not need closed captioning, but people who speak English as a second language need closed captioning to help them look up unfamiliar words in their two-way dictionaries, and some deaf people can't read lips that well (e.g. a soldier who just got a medical discharge because his hearing got ruined in a war and therefore has had no time to learn how to read lips).

Humm...
i leave closed captioning on for the wife who is almost deaf. i haven't experienced exactly what you describe but i haven't tried either.
i have a different but similar experience. 8 times now when i start watching a recorded show the CC will not appear and approximately 10 seconds into the show the box will crash and reboot. this happened 5 times in a row on 5 different recorded shows one night. after each reboot i had no trouble starting the show over and CC was there.

another feature i miss from passport. the ability to change how closed caption appears. i used to have it set up so that the words were white with no box surrounding the words . this allowed the wife to read it if needed without hindering my viewing experience. with the black boxes i cant help it my eyes are drawn to it like a magnet i find myself reading when i don't want to.

I currently have MDN on my 8300HD box (NOT HDC) with external hard drive connected an my 15 minute jumps work by holding down FF/REW buttons on the remote. Don't know about the ODN version, but it takes a bit of getting used to when in Passport I was used to hitting the Left or Right arrow buttons.

TWC Mid-Ohio/Columbus Division SA8300HD

Huh, that's odd. :confused:

I have two identical SA8300HD's running identical versions of Navigator (I presume, as I don't know where to find the version number within the 24 pages of diagnostics - anybody know, just to ask the question again?), and the 15 minute jump works on the one without an external drive and doesn't work on the one with an external. I just figured if it behaved that way for me, it probably did so for everyone else that has an external drive hooked up as well.

Closed Captioning issues

To avoid this problem, simply use your TV's CC functions and not Navigator's.

To avoid this problem, simply use your TV's CC functions and not Navigator's.

What if your system doesn't have CC built in? Alot of people I know use projection systems and rely on the set top for functionality. This again goes to my point that we should not have to come up with our own workarounds to side step problems created by TWC.

To avoid this problem, simply use your TV's CC functions and not Navigator's.

That's what I do all the time. CC has never worked on my DVR even with Passport. The forum did suggest getting an S-video cable, but I have decided that it is not necessary. Using the TV CC is so much quicker than Navigator anyway. CC on those boxes is really a 50/50 crap shoot. And this was before Navigator was rolled out. Some DVR's take it, some don't.

Jack

I presume, as I don't know where to find the version number within the 24 pages of diagnostics - anybody know, just to ask the question again?I have the SA8300HDC, so I don't know if yours is the same, but it is on the first page of the diagnostics, as far as I can tell on mine. It shows:

Bootstrapper version: 2.4.6_1 2007/09/20
Network version: 2.4.9_3 2008/01/24
Monitor version: 2.4.9_3 2008/01/24
ODN version: 2.4.9_3 2008/01/24

TT

That's what I do all the time. CC has never worked on my DVR even with Passport. The forum did suggest getting an S-video cable, but I have decided that it is not necessary. Using the TV CC is so much quicker than Navigator anyway.

I have the reverse. TV CC never worked with Passport using HDMI. It still doesn't with Nav. The box is the only way I can see captions unless I'm using a direct coax feed to the TV.

Huh, that's odd. :confused:

I have two identical SA8300HD's running identical versions of Navigator (I presume, as I don't know where to find the version number within the 24 pages of diagnostics - anybody know, just to ask the question again?), and the 15 minute jump works on the one without an external drive and doesn't work on the one with an external. I just figured if it behaved that way for me, it probably did so for everyone else that has an external drive hooked up as well.

You are running the MDN version of Navigator. Your version number is on page 14, and should look something like 2.4.1-92. The numbers will be different if you are running a different version of Navigator.

By the way, there are two software trains of Navigator. MDN is the original software train of Navigator and is designed to run on legacy Scientific Atlanta boxes and is written in C. (I am borrowing the term "train" from Cisco's router operating systems due to a lack of a better term.) ODN is a port to the OCAP platform that is designed to run on boxes that support OCAP, and is written in Java to allow it to run on any device that can run Java. These boxes generally have CableCARDs in them.

I don't know where to find the version number within the 24 pages of diagnostics - anybody know, just to ask the question again.Go to the "Software Versions" page (13 or 14, I think). The version that you want is labelled "Res" for "Resident Application", what the cable box people call the IPG (remember, SARA is "Scientific Atlanta Resident Application"). Mine says "2.4.1-92-ptv", or something like that.

Go to the "Software Versions" page (13 or 14, I think). The version that you want is labelled "Res" for "Resident Application", what the cable box people call the IPG (remember, SARA is "Scientific Atlanta Resident Application"). Mine says "2.4.1-92-ptv", or something like that.

Page 14 on a SA8300HD

TWC victim in Raleigh/Durham with 8300HD box. Ever since the "upgrade", most all HD channels take 2-3 seconds to appear when changing channels (screen goes black and/or flashes in and out).

Also, when changing the HD channels, after the channel comes up it randomly cuts in and out (very frustrating and always seems to happen at the worst moments). No rhyme or reason on the channels cutting in and out but the delay when switching channels happens almost always.

Lastly, when I first turn the TV on (box is already on) I get a message saying something to the effect of your TV does not support DVI HDCP or something. I press the A button but I then have to deal with the issues above.

HELP!

Settings,Display,Output resolution - select 1080i only - fixes the 1st problem

Humm...
i leave closed captioning on for the wife who is almost deaf. i haven't experienced exactly what you describe but i haven't tried either.
i have a different but similar experience. 8 times now when i start watching a recorded show the CC will not appear and approximately 10 seconds into the show the box will crash and reboot. this happened 5 times in a row on 5 different recorded shows one night. after each reboot i had no trouble starting the show over and CC was there.

another feature i miss from passport. the ability to change how closed caption appears. i used to have it set up so that the words were white with no box surrounding the words . this allowed the wife to read it if needed without hindering my viewing experience. with the black boxes i cant help it my eyes are drawn to it like a magnet i find myself reading when i don't want to.

I got fed up with the crashing and gambled by switching to an ODN box, an SA 8240HDC. ODN runs a little slower, but the closed captioning bug is worked around. The box simply quits buffering during playback and does not crash like the 8300HD running MDN does while fast forward and rewind are used while closed captioning is on. I will have to test to see what happens when someone tries this fast forwarding and rewinding stuff on a high definition channel with closed captions on while the set top box is explicitly told to record some other high definition show to see if this bug is still present.

Also, I will guess that the guide loads faster when using the next day key because all of the CableCARD-based Scientific Atlanta cable boxes include a DOCSIS 1.0 or 2.0 cable modem which supports 38 Mbps downstream data transfer, while many of the older boxes do not support any version of the DOCSIS cable modem protocol and therefore must use the much more inefficient and older DAVIC protocol to transfer data.

On the flip side, one weird bug that happened when I was going through an On Demand channel was that when I hit the exit button while I was in the On Demand menu, the video ad went fullscreen. After the banner left, I tried to change the channel many times, and the tuner failed to leave the pay-per-view advertising channel. I had to hard reboot to fix this. I tried to reproduce the bug, and failed. One factor was that I previously watched a large number of instructional videos on the Answers on Demand channel learning about Navigator.

For those who have Digital Phone: There is a video on the Answers on Demand channel on how to enable onscreen Caller ID.

For those with Onkyo home theater systems and other equipment with separate power on and power off remote signals: If you decide to swap out your box, you might want to swap your remote with a newer model while you are swapping your box. The newer remote is aware that the power on and power off signals are separated. Pressing the AUX button switches the remote to control the home theater system and send the power on signal. Pressing the power key while in AUX mode sends the power off signal.

I never knew that you could remove the background of the closed captions in Passport. However, I welcomed the background because trying to read the text in MDN's diagnostic screen without any background whatsoever causes me eyestrain. ODN's diagnostic screen thankfully dims the TV image to make the text readable.

well stupid me forgot I was using Navigator tonight and while fast forwarding through a commercial during House I kept my finger on the FF button.

I jumped fom one commercial break to the next and didn't even notice that I'd jumped 15 minutes and missed the middle of the show.With the timecode being stuck on the opposite side of the progress bar (genius design :rolleyes: ) I didn't notice how far I was in to the show before or after I jumped either.

That explained why I thought it seemed to be missing something when it came back from commercial. :o

I don't know if this post belongs here. Please feel free to move it to a more appropriate section.

For the past 2 weeks, I’m having issues changing channels with my 2 SA3250HD stb provided by Time Warner Cable. I’m receiving digital cable TV in Cincinnati, Ohio. I can’t get the channel to change properly using Windows XP MCE 2005 remote and IR buds anymore (This is an HTPC/PVR setup).


I’ve been running MCE 2005 for the past 18 months without a hitch but since I noticed TWC recently made changes to the way they broadcast signals, channel changing is becoming impossible: I can change 1 and 3 digit channel OK but can’t with a 2 digit channel. It seems that the stb reacts to the second of the 2 digit input and for example sends me to channel 7 instead of channel 47.


I actually was running FireSTB to change channel via firewire and that has stopped working as well at the same time. I tried to reinstall FireSTB but it won’t change anything. I'm suspecting that TWC has disabled the Firewire ports... Has anyone an idea on how to try to fix this channel changing issue with at least the classic IR buds stuck to the stb?

Thanks!

Not sure I understand what you're saying here. Basically, eSATA support in Navigator is exactly the same as it was under Passport and SARA, i.e. it works. You even get the buffers and trick-play back. What was taken away was the ability to FF or REW in 15 minute chunks by holding down the RR or REW buttons (with Passport, you hit the arrow keys while in FF or REW mode to accomplish that function) on DVR's with expansion drives hooked up. This has already been covered in this thread and others, including the expansion drive thread.

I mentioned that they can not implement features that dpointer was talking about since they are too busy adding great stuff to Navigator (I was being sarcastic, of course). I have had 8300HDC with Navigator since last September, and during those 9 months or so, I got a total of one "upgrade" (from 2.4.5_4 to 2.4.9_3), and that one definitely broke eSATA support, as well as introduced the other bugs I mentioned; i.e. they can not bother to implement new stuff that appears to be very basic, since they are busy creating new bugs.
I should have mentioned 8300HDC somewhere. I was going to add it to the signature a while ago, but when I went to "edit signature" screen, it explicitely asked not to put equipment in there.

My box still has Passport.....Is there any way to prevent the upgrade?

Any settings in the diagnotics or anything that can be altered?

What about putting a filter or something on the line that would prevent 2 way communication? I realize this will affect on demand and pay per view, but I dont really use that anyways

Tony

My box still has Passport.....Is there any way to prevent the upgrade?

Any settings in the diagnotics or anything that can be altered?

What about putting a filter or something on the line that would prevent 2 way communication? I realize this will affect on demand and pay per view, but I dont really use that anyways

Tony

There is no way to stop the upgrade, and disabling two-way communication will cause your interactive program guide to fail. Your cable box needs two-way communication to retrieve the guide. One way protocols are bad for retrieving the guide because two-way communication is needed to reject frames so corrupted that they cannot be repaired at the box so that they can be retried. (Good protocols in error-prone environments include some redundant bits so that data receivers can often repair corrupted frames.)
In the first day, expect a few random reboots, but then the version of Navigator that will be pushed to your legacy box will be quite stable as long as you stay away from mixing closed captioning, DVR functionality, and HDTV (personal experience. I gambled on a box swap because my mother really needs the closed captioning and seem to have gotten ahead so far).

Humm...
i leave closed captioning on for the wife who is almost deaf. i haven't experienced exactly what you describe but i haven't tried either.
i have a different but similar experience. 8 times now when i start watching a recorded show the CC will not appear and approximately 10 seconds into the show the box will crash and reboot. this happened 5 times in a row on 5 different recorded shows one night. after each reboot i had no trouble starting the show over and CC was there.

another feature i miss from passport. the ability to change how closed caption appears. i used to have it set up so that the words were white with no box surrounding the words . this allowed the wife to read it if needed without hindering my viewing experience. with the black boxes i cant help it my eyes are drawn to it like a magnet i find myself reading when i don't want to.

After swapping out the 8300HD (which runs the MDN software train) with an 8240HDC (which runs the ODN software train. The 8300HDC will also run ODN), the ability to customize the closed captions can be found in the Captioning submenu in the settings menu. Apparently, this ability is not in MDN but is exclusive to ODN.

On the other hand, the 8240C crashed this morning while recording Good Morning America, but it at least restarted the recording after it rebooted.

EDIT: I noticed that the closed captioning customization only works for HD channels. It does not affect SD channels.

My box still has Passport.....Is there any way to prevent the upgrade?

Any settings in the diagnotics or anything that can be altered?

What about putting a filter or something on the line that would prevent 2 way communication? I realize this will affect on demand and pay per view, but I dont really use that anyways


Unplug the coax cable. You can still view recordings and watch basic unscrambled cable, but as soon as you plug the DVR back in you'll get Navigated.

A filter might work, but it would have to block the frequency range TWC is using for up/down communication and thus might get the set top deactivated if TWC sends out pings and the set top doesn't respond.

My DVR (8300HD) keeps rebooting at silly times, like when looking at the grid, playing back a recording, etc... When using passport, this never occurred, but with Navigator, this is a constant problem. I've lost count of how many times by box rebooted already. It even did so in the middle of recording some season finale.

Is there anything I can do about it, replace the box, yell harder at TWC that may solve the problem? I haven't found a pattern yet, but it seems to involve the grid or fast forwarding during playback.

Francisco

Same thing happened to me (for the first time) last night. I was watching a recorded show ... rewound it to a particular point ... saved it ... and then started scrolling up and down the guide (for the current time). Box hangs, then reboots. And the reboot takes FOREVER!

What's up with the new software? It's really annoying when the box reboots in the middle of recording an important show! Can we ask TWC for a rebate every time the box reboots (my service is disrupted)?

I never knew that you could remove the background of the closed captions in Passport. .

there were so many CC options in passport that i cant remember them all.

you could change the font color (5 colors i believe). change font size (small. med. lg). change the back ground (normal black, transparent, translucent, or also change the color of the back ground).
you could even make the words transparent and have the back ground a color.

there are others i cant remember.

EDIT: I noticed that the closed captioning customization only works for HD channels. It does not affect SD channels..

i believe this was the same in passport



On the other hand, the 8240C crashed this morning while recording Good Morning America, but it at least restarted the recording after it rebooted.

.

did the box power itself on after the reboot?
my MDN box will continue recording after a reboot but not if im not there to push the power button.

ha .......i just turned my TV off and Box rebooted.....hah ahaha

there were so many CC options in passport that i cant remember them all.

you could change the font color (5 colors i believe). change font size (small. med. lg). change the back ground (normal black, transparent, translucent, or also change the color of the back ground).
you could even make the words transparent and have the back ground a color.

there are others i cant remember.



i believe this was the same in passportThere are two different sets of close captioning options (at least there were in Passport) as there are two different closed captioning standards, one for analog SD and one for DTV. When they created the standard for DTV, they went all out in terms of required flexibility in presentation options (see this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close_captioning#DTV_standard_captioning_improvements)).

Sigh, still having reliability issues with recordings.
I set the DVR to record all 3 Indiana Jones movies tonight. We watched the first after it had finished recording. We then started watching the 2nd about 20 minutes before it was to end. Whatever "magical" thing I did when I started watching the 2nd movie effectively stopped it recording and we didn't get those last 20 minutes (fortunately it's on again tomorrow). Odd thing was, while we were watching, the record light was on, but clearly the yellow bar was no longer moving and in fact it did not record the ending. So far it seems the 3rd movie has and continues to be recording fine.

I know I started watching a couple of shows during the week while it was still recording and those turned out fine, so like I said, I'm not sure what was different this time that caused it to stop. Pretty IPGs and nice search features are all well and good, but TWC has really got to figure out these recording failures.

+1.

I also have observed very inconsistent behavior with my 8300HDC on 2.4.9_3 when watching saved shows while recording new ones. Lots of what you describe (record light is on, but it's not really recording). Including the piece about starting to watch a program being recording before it finishes... Very nebulous, too, because sometimes it works OK--I haven't nailed down exactly what causes it or doesn't. Suffice it to say, it is either buggy or a very subtle difference in something I'm doing that makes a huge difference in recording outcomes (I had no such problem with Passport). Even if it is intentionally designed to do whatever it is doing, there is some UI work that needs to be done to highlight to the users that whatever they're doing is about to stop the recording process (which is totally absent when this happens). They have plenty of warnings in other places when you're about to stop recording or delete shows--this should be one of them.

However, all that said, I consider this a bug that should be fixed so that in-flight recordings have a better chance of finishing--since in these cases it was never my intention to stop the recording.

At this point, I tend to avoid doing anything (i.e., using the box at all) when something is recording for fear of having it abort on me--which is plain dumb when you think about what a DVR is "supposed" to do...

There are two different sets of close captioning options (at least there were in Passport) as there are two different closed captioning standards, one for analog SD and one for DTV. When they created the standard for DTV, they went all out in terms of required flexibility in presentation options (see this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close_captioning#DTV_standard_captioning_improvements)).

i'm was aware of the different CC standards. but thanks to your post jarring my brain a little i dug a little deeper into navigator and indeed found that on my 3250hd box i can go settings, captioning, digital, set by viewer, and have a range of options that may be to my liking. i haven't checked this on my 8300 box yet but it should be the same.

there were so many CC options in passport that i cant remember them all.

you could change the font color (5 colors i believe). change font size (small. med. lg). change the back ground (normal black, transparent, translucent, or also change the color of the back ground).
you could even make the words transparent and have the back ground a color.

there are others i cant remember.



i believe this was the same in passport



did the box power itself on after the reboot?
my MDN box will continue recording after a reboot but not if im not there to push the power button.

I was asleep at the time it crashed. It did not need to be brought out of standby to start recording again.

My DVR (8300HD) keeps rebooting at silly times, like when looking at the grid, playing back a recording, etc... When using passport, this never occurred, but with Navigator, this is a constant problem. I've lost count of how many times by box rebooted already. It even did so in the middle of recording some season finale.

Is there anything I can do about it, replace the box, yell harder at TWC that may solve the problem? I haven't found a pattern yet, but it seems to involve the grid or fast forwarding during playback.

Francisco

It seems that your box may have a corrupted upgrade, or you are running into one of those bugs in your version of Navigator that the version of Navigator on newer boxes has solved. Some people have reported that their boxes failed after the upgrade. Also, the MDN software train running on your 8300HD seems to have some bugs during fast-forwarding and rewinding. I experienced them causing reboots when I tried to fast forward or rewind while watching an HDTV recording with loads of closed captions while the channel the box was tuned to is another HDTV channel. When I swapped boxes with an 8240HDC box (a box that runs the ODN software train that is a port of MDN to Java), that bug was gone.

However, if you use an eSATA drive, do not swap out your box under any circumstances for now because eSATA drives crash ODN unless you somehow keep the DVR from falling asleep by forcing it to record something 24/7.

My guess as to why fast forwarding and rewinding is safe only in ODN, which is written in Java, and not MDN, which is written in C, is that Java does runtime error checking, making it easy to find and kill easy to make bugs in Java like buffer overflows; and that C has no runtime error checking whatsoever except when sanity checking is programmed in correctly before the potentially dangerous operation is performed. In C, C++, and Java, there are structures known as arrays, which are basically structures that contain many of one type of object in them. To access one particular location in an array, you must supply an index number which is sort of like a street address. In C and C++, if you use the C-style array, no automated sanity checking whatsoever of the index is performed. This is similar to the tourist who is paying more attention to a bad set of directions and a map and therefore does not notice that he or she is about to drive into the school at the end of the road because the address given to him or her is beyond the range of street addresses that is in the bad directions. In the best case, the operating system will notice this and kill the offending program, like how an alert security guard or police officer can notice and pull over the bad driver far enough in advance to stop the car from running into the school. In the worst case, memory corruption can occur and the cracker trying to break into your computer uses this to take over your computer. C++ allows the programmer to use a version of the array known as a vector that allows the programmer to opt into automated sanity checking of the supplied index. Sanity checking slows things down, but allows the programmer to track down the bugs quickly if he or she puts some error handling code that lets him or her know were the sanity check failed. The programmer can opt out if he or she is confident that the program is coded well enough to make illegal index values impossible and needs to make the program run as fast as possible. In Java, this sanity checking is mandatory, making Java slower, but failing the sanity check allows the program to point to the exact function in the code where the sanity check failed, making debugging easy.

I think that there is a buffer overflow in MDN that is causing your problem that does not exist in the newer boxes.

When I swapped boxes and had everything hooked up, the 8240HDC box seemed to be DOA. Fortunately, I remembered the composite video. I used the composite video hookup to see if the box was truly DOA or if it was not outputting something my TV could not accept in any form like 720p. I noticed that it was set to 480i initially, a resolution that should work on my screen. I switched it to 1080i only and the component video worked. I then set it to all of the resolutions my TV supports (480i, 480p, and 1080i) and it works at all of them. I do not know why this box initially failed on component video, but was glad that I was able to avoid declaring it DOA.

My DVR (8300HD) keeps rebooting at silly times, like when looking at the grid, playing back a recording, etc... When using passport, this never occurred, but with Navigator, this is a constant problem. I've lost count of how many times by box rebooted already. It even did so in the middle of recording some season finale.

Is there anything I can do about it, replace the box, yell harder at TWC that may solve the problem? I haven't found a pattern yet, but it seems to involve the grid or fast forwarding during playback.

Francisco

If you've opened several tickets without satisfaction contact the Town of Cary and let them know about your problems. Worked wonders for me.

I just got it Monday night on my DVR, but got it on my plain Cable box a few weeks ago.

The biggest improvement is Caller ID on TV. This is wonderful. works great!! (plain and DVR)

Also a big add is Closed Captioning (my wife is hard of hearing) and we now can get captioning on our old set that does not have a built-in recorder. How they do this with a softwae upgrade, i don't know but they do. (only noticed it on DVR box)

TMC-On Demand is now FREE!! (don't know why - but not asking questions) (plain and DVR)

You can now set the program guide to show all of the favorite channels 1st, then all the non-favorites. This is EXCELLENT!!! Makes so much more sense

Now the noticable problems: (all DVR Only)
with the old system, you could search for a word from a title or a description and get a list of prgotrams AND could record and subscribe from this search. for Example: record everything with "Star Trek" in the title would result in subscriptions to all Star Trek series on any channel and any star trek movies; or record anything with "Bill Cosby" in the description which will get all Bill Cosby movies and TV shows.

This feature is no longer available!!

Multi-Channel subscriptions.(where you can record all episodes of "Friends" repeats regardless of what channel they are shown on)
You have to now program each channel separately!

this leads to another problem: When u end up with multiple copies of a program (each with a different channel) the list can't distinguish between the 2 and when you move prioirty order of 1, it moves the priority of whatever was entered first!!

Also, I, too, get box re-boots, but I had the same problems pre-upgrade.

Also a big add is Closed Captioning (my wife is hard of hearing) and we now can get captioning on our old set that does not have a built-in recorder. How they do this with a softwae upgrade, i don't know but they do. (only noticed it on DVR box)


I don't know what you are talking about. CC has been on digital boxes for longer than I can remember. Read the previous couple of pages for how limited the captioning system is in Navigator.

What box software did you have previously that didn't provide CC?

TMC-On Demand is now FREE!! (don't know why - but not asking questions) (plain and DVR)

.

Movie channel On Demand have been free for months,,
You had it but didnt know or in rare cases some people had to call and have them reset cause they were old subscribers and codes changed..

any movie channel u subscribe to now, u get the corresponding OnDemand for free..

When I swapped boxes and had everything hooked up, the 8240HDC box seemed to be DOA. Fortunately, I remembered the composite video. I used the composite video hookup to see if the box was truly DOA or if it was not outputting something my TV could not accept in any form like 720p. I noticed that it was set to 480i initially, a resolution that should work on my screen. I switched it to 1080i only and the component video worked. I then set it to all of the resolutions my TV supports (480i, 480p, and 1080i) and it works at all of them. I do not know why this box initially failed on component video, but was glad that I was able to avoid declaring it DOA.

reset to 1080i only,,m

it has no negative effect and it makes the chanell change faster without the pause while they figure it out .

I had a odd one on new Navigator..

I 'tried' to tape Hells Kitchen and when I went to watch last nite it wasnt there..

I then loooked in archive and it said 'setup box coudnt tape'..wtf???

usually if aconflict u get a error message when tryoing to tape..
I was watching tv while it was taping and never saw a thing...

no power failure by the way ,,so thats not the answer..

Movie channel On Demand have been free for months,,
You had it but didnt know or in rare cases some people had to call and have them reset cause they were old subscribers and codes changed..

any movie channel u subscribe to now, u get the corresponding OnDemand for free..


Actually The Movie Channel On Demand is free for ANYBODY in this area right now. I checked after I saw his post last night and I got TMC on demand but I do not subscribe to TMC.

I had a odd one on new Navigator..

I 'tried' to tape Hells Kitchen and when I went to watch last nite it wasnt there..

I then loooked in archive and it said 'setup box coudnt tape'..wtf???

usually if aconflict u get a error message when tryoing to tape..
I was watching tv while it was taping and never saw a thing...

no power failure by the way ,,so thats not the answer..

That's one of the nice "features" of navigator, expect that to happen a whole bunch more...and just wait til' your entire list of recorded shows just happens to disappear..that's a fun one as well.

However, if you use an eSATA drive, do not swap out your box under any circumstances for now because eSATA drives crash ODN unless you somehow keep the DVR from falling asleep by forcing it to record something 24/7.
Does this trick really work on the ODN boxes w/ eSATA? I have been reading the eSATA forum and looking thru the database there for Navigator and can find no confirmation that eSATA will work on my SA8300HDC box at all. Are you doing this? I am running ODN version 2.4.9_3 of the Navigator here, and if all I have to do is prevent the box from going into "sleep mode" to make eSATA work, I might try it.

I talked to TWC support and they say it is WAY down on their priority list to add eSATA support to the new Navigator, and if they do, it will be in a proprietary form that they can support (and make money off of, obviously.)

Outside of eSATA, what other choices does one have to expand the capacity of their DVR? It fills up awfully quickly when recording HD content. Is there an economical way to archive the programming off the DVR's hard drive and onto DVD disks or something to free up space and retain programming that you might want to view in perpetuity? Can you transfer it with Firewire to a PC and then burn a DVD?

Thx,
TT

reset to 1080i only,,m

it has no negative effect and it makes the chanell change faster without the pause while they figure it out .

Setting the output to 1080i only does have a negative effect if your display can accept and display 720p natively: this throws away a huge amount of vertical resolution away.

I have my box set to 1080i only because my screen cannot handle 720p, does a mediocre job of converting 480i which it cannot display into 480p which it can display, and its beams are so focused that you could see scan lines in 480p mode. The scan lines are so packed in 1080i mode that they blend together, which they are not packed enough to do in 480p mode.

Does anyone know what Navigator bug fixes are at the top of the list, that TWC is working on right now? How far away are we from an expanded sports list and keyboard Keyword Search option? For this question, I am referring specifically to bug fixes and features that they are implementing. This differs from my Navigator Top 5 List of what users would like to see added.

What do you believe the first big update will be?

Jack

Apparently my Pioneer SD box in my room got navigatored awhile back. That thing is slow. It wont even show the graphics logo in the guide and/or when changing channels. Only way to fix that is by rebooting. Should I get a new box and remote? It would probably get me better performance but there are problems with crashing. I hear that you should get rid of any Pioneer box since it doesn't like navigator. Any responses would be great.

reset to 1080i only,,m

it has no negative effect and it makes the chanell change faster without the pause while they figure it out .

I've always been under the impression that the "slow channel changing" was more of a TV problem, since it has to change modes when a channel changes it's output resolution. I've even heard a TV "click" as if it was reseting itself.

Apparently my Pioneer SD box in my room got navigatored awhile back. That thing is slow. It wont even show the graphics logo in the guide and/or when changing channels. Only way to fix that is by rebooting. Should I get a new box and remote? It would probably get me better performance but there are problems with crashing. I hear that you should get rid of any Pioneer box since it doesn't like navigator. Any responses would be great.

The Pioneer boxes are the oldest and have the least memory to run Navigator. Because Pioneer is now defunct from anything in the cable box industry, and if you are having problems with Navigator on a Pioneer box, you should exchange your box for a newer model.

We have seen Navigator performance vary from state to state and box to box. A lot of areas are all SA units. What is the newest SA model box that this customer should try to get? I have a DVR, so I don't know the model numbers for the non-DVR boxes.

Jack

Does this trick really work on the ODN boxes w/ eSATA? I have been reading the eSATA forum and looking thru the database there for Navigator and can find no confirmation that eSATA will work on my SA8300HDC box at all. Are you doing this? I am running ODN version 2.4.9_3 of the Navigator here, and if all I have to do is prevent the box from going into "sleep mode" to make eSATA work, I might try it.

I talked to TWC support and they say it is WAY down on their priority list to add eSATA support to the new Navigator, and if they do, it will be in a proprietary form that they can support (and make money off of, obviously.)

Outside of eSATA, what other choices does one have to expand the capacity of their DVR? It fills up awfully quickly when recording HD content. Is there an economical way to archive the programming off the DVR's hard drive and onto DVD disks or something to free up space and retain programming that you might want to view in perpetuity? Can you transfer it with Firewire to a PC and then burn a DVD?

Thx,
TT

eSATA does work for me SA8300HDC with 2.4.9_3 as long as I keep the box busy at all times, so you can consider doing it if you really want. Do not underestimate the hassle of making sure the box is recording 24/7, though.

The Pioneer boxes are the oldest and have the least memory to run Navigator. Because Pioneer is now defunct from anything in the cable box industry, and if you are having problems with Navigator on a Pioneer box, you should exchange your box for a newer model.

We have seen Navigator performance vary from state to state and box to box. A lot of areas are all SA units. What is the newest SA model box that this customer should try to get? I have a DVR, so I don't know the model numbers for the non-DVR boxes.

Jack


I believe its the SA4250HDC for the non DVR. I also have a 4250HDC and a 3250HD. We don't have any DVR service at our household. It's hooked up to an SD TV. I will probably get an HD box. TWC practically buys only HD boxes since its cheaper. It also displays this faint scrolling line from side to side. Maybe I might try a DVR. I will try to go to TWC some time soon. Believe it or not this was our first Digital cable box. No wonder why it doesn't run navi very well. Hopefully there will be some SA8300HD not those HDC's. I also know that getting a Passport box will be slim to none.

The Pioneer box in question is the BD-V1100 which is quite old. It has the curved front on it.

I have a newer Pioneer box at my beach house at Emerald Isle NC.I works great.Its really faster than Pasport which it replaced.Has not locked up or rebooted once.Now we are only there once or twice a month for arround 2 or 3 days.I have Sara on my Greensboro NC box 1.89.17.1.Do not know the Navigator version but it works fine for me.Only two things I dislike or the way the little screen goes blank when you use keyboad search and all that blue gets annoying after a while.Wish I could change colors the way Passport and Sara let me.

Had to manually reboot the box yesterday morning. Every time we switched channels, we'd see the info bar confirming the new channel, but the screen remained black and there was no audio. Tried a few tricks (like PIP), but nothing worked. That was a first.

Navigator is just too frustrating to use. What options are there besides dumping TWC for satallite and using their DVR's ?

Navigator is just too frustrating to use. What options are there besides dumping TWC for satallite and using their DVR's ?Well, there's TiVo :). In response to someone else's query, I posted a run-down of some of TiVo's strengths and a few of its weaknesses back in this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13797397#post13797397) post. It'd cost you $250-$300 for a TiVo HD, another $300 for a 3 year service contract (cheapest price) and $1.75/month (or something like that) to lease an M-Card from your cable provider.

Navigator Updates: (Metro-Milwaukee Area MDN Navigator 8300 HD DVR)

It appears that TWC has fixed the duplicate TV Land channel bug, which I described in a previous thread. I have noticed some test channels around the 1800 range. Do not know what this is about. Could this be a part of the SDV transition?

The first warm reboot manually done by me was tonight, since the change-over on April 16. I had done a time change on a non-series recording. (Record Show With Options) while playing back a recording. I don't know if the bug produced itself at that time. But I originally went back because I had added 15 minutes to a show, and than changed it to end as scheduled. Than for some reason, when I went to the Find Shows Category, the indicator would show the description of a show and than say that it was On Demand when it wasn't.

So I did the warm reboot (VOL+/VOL-/INFO) keys held down at the same time and everything is back to normal. I also went back, deleted any scheduled recordings and redid them, just to make sure that they were going to be fresh. Before rebooting, I did hit Record on a test channel that I was watching and it was fine. (Saving the recording that I had been watching.)

On the 8300 Maestro DVR, users should note that in following the procedure above that the boots are instantaneous. Passport had about a 5-10 second delay before rebooting. The MDN version of Navigator's boot-time on my 8300 DVR was about 3-3.5 minutes.

Jack

how do I slow motion now in navigaor???

Well, there's TiVo :). In response to someone else's query, I posted a run-down of some of TiVo's strengths and a few of its weaknesses back in this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13797397#post13797397) post. It'd cost you $250-$300 for a TiVo HD, another $300 for a 3 year service contract (cheapest price) and $1.75/month (or something like that) to lease an M-Card from your cable provider.

That's all well and good, but as far as I'm concerned, until Tivo has a working SDV solution in partner with the cable company it's worthless for HD. In my market, every HD channel except locals and ESPN are SDV now. The upside is we still have SARA.

On another front, I know that the DirecTV equipment is being installed to uplink my locals in HD, so now the will be one less reason to stay with TWC once they go live.

how do I slow motion now in navigaor???

At least in ODN, slow motion is achieved by pressing the play button while the DVR is playing at normal speed.

At least in ODN, slow motion is achieved by pressing the play button while the DVR is playing at normal speed.

That's one of the 2 or 3 things that Navigator actually does better than Passport. With PP, you had to hit the play button twice at precisely the right speed to get into slo-mo mode. It was very difficult to do. But, you also had frame-by-frame advance and could get a slow motion-like effect by just holding down the arrow button while in pause mode, and that's gone with Navigator.

That's all well and good, but as far as I'm concerned, until Tivo has a working SDV solution in partner with the cable company it's worthless for HD. In my market, every HD channel except locals and ESPN are SDV now. The upside is we still have SARA.

On another front, I know that the DirecTV equipment is being installed to uplink my locals in HD, so now the will be one less reason to stay with TWC once they go live.I was answering someone's ask for alternatives to Navigator, and TiVo is a viable alternative. Certainly, if SDV is being used by his local TWC provider, TiVo becomes less viable if he cares about the services offered as SDV. The number of services offered as SDV has varied greatly from one local TWC service provider to another. (It looks like TWC is being kind enough to point out all of the channels that you can't get with CableCARDs on the channel line-up pages of their local sites). In my market (and the vast majority of cable markets at this point) SDV isn't in use yet. As I understand it, they've got the equipment and software in place and I expect that the next batch of new HD channels that they introduce will be offered as SDV services.

The Tuning Adapter is coming and should be here before the end of the summer.

I just found another shortcoming of Navigator. With Passport, I could hit the PIP button and the PIP came up in a small window. I could press the button again and it would go to a larger size. With Navigator there is only one size. But the most annoying thing is changing the PIP channel. In the past, you could press the + or - button and it would change the channel and if you held your finger on the button, it would fast forward or backwards very quickly. With Navigator, the channel fast forward or backwards only advances it one channel. Last night, the PIP channel on my box was 49 and I wanted to go to channel 250. This reqired 200+ presses to get there. What a pain in the a##. Navigator has made PIP a virtually useless feature. I would like TWC to tell me of just one Navigator feature that is as good or better than Passport.

I just found another shortcoming of Navigator. With Passport, I could hit the PIP button and the PIP came up in a small window. I could press the button again and it would go to a larger size. With Navigator there is only one size. But the most annoying thing is changing the PIP channel. In the past, you could press the + or - button and it would change the channel and if you held your finger on the button, it would fast forward or backwards very quickly. With Navigator, the channel fast forward or backwards only advances it one channel. Last night, the PIP channel on my box was 49 and I wanted to go to channel 250. This reqired 200+ presses to get there. What a pain in the a##. Navigator has made PIP a virtually useless feature. I would like TWC to tell me of just one Navigator feature that is as good or better than Passport.


Isnt there a swap feature? I dont have Navigator yet, but you should still be able to swap tuners and then change the channel with the keypad and then swap back.

Isnt there a swap feature? I dont have Navigator yet, but you should still be able to swap tuners and then change the channel with the keypad and then swap back.

It doesn't work the same as Passport. With PP, each tuner acted separately. The "previous channel" and "pause" buttons worked only for that particular tuner. You could for example, watch two games at once. You could pause one tuner, hit swap and go to the other tuner and watch for awhile, then hit pause and swap back to the other tuner which would be waiting (and buffering) right where you left it. Now with Navigator, the "previous channel" button and the "swap" button work identically. Each time you hit either the "previous channel" or "swap" buttons, you go to the other tuner and when you go back to the first tuner, "pause" will be disabled and it will be "live" (even though you still have what's been buffered - it just won't remember where you were when you switched tuners). You can still watch two games, of course, you just will have to REW back to the point where you switched tuners by hitting either "swap" or "previous channel", if you can remember where you left off.

This is another downgrade, in my opinion. Less options with clumsy Navigator than with the much more elegant Passport, as is typical.

I would like TWC to tell me of just one Navigator feature that is as good or better than Passport.

How about: replacing the grey sidebars that was a constant complaint on the Passport thread with black bars

How about: replacing the grey sidebars that was a constant complaint on the Passport thread with black bars

Of course the problem with saying which has better features - Passport or Navigator - is a tricky question.

The question should be "what features does Navigator have that the version of Passport we had does not?"

I don't know anyone using the latest version of Passport so for all I know it could have black sidebars - and a setting that gets a maid to find the remote when it gets lost, controls the weather and has a direct line to the pizza guy.

We'll never know since TWC never gave us the opportunity to find out.

I would like TWC to tell me of just one Navigator feature that is as good or better than Passport.

And you can rewind Music Choice channels now. At least I'm assuming that's a Navigator feature; it could never be done under Passport, at least here in NEOH.

Yes you could go through 100 channels at a time in Passport with the yellow 'A' button.

How about: replacing the grey sidebars that was a constant complaint on the Passport thread with black bars
For those who have Plasma TVs, the gray bars are less damaging to the TV than black sidebars. I have confirmed this with panasonic customer service. Have heard similar from LCD owners, as well.

Earlier I mentioned that switching the Input on my HDMI connected TV from 1 (TV) to 2 (DVD) cleared out MDN's tuner buffers. Now I found that just turning the TV off also clears the buffers. Yesterday, I turned off the TV to for about 30 minutes while doing something else, but left the STB on. When I turned the TV back on, the STB was still on the channel I left it on, but the buffers were empty. Grrrr!

Another complaint: If you are recording on both tuners, you cannot extend (ie: 'add days to') the Guide. If you try, the Guide will say Loading Data, but will never load anything. The Guide will only load data if at least one tuner is available (ie: not recording).

I'd also like to reiterate a common complaint others have made. In Passport, if you found a show in the Guide and wanted to see all the times it was airing, you just hit one button (I think it was the C button). But with Navigator, you don't have any such option. You have to manually search for the program by using the keyboard to type out the name of the show. Which leads into another common complaint worth repeating: Navigator's keyboard is not 'Smart.' Unlike Passport, as you type in a word, the keyboard does not dim or grey-out the keys that no longer fit with any available title. And, of course, let's not forget that there's no option to search by Keyword in Navigator (only by Title).

Man, the more I use this piece of crap software, the more I hate it. If this was 1998, Navigator might seem pretty decent. But this is 2008, and it's just garbage! TWC had better get off its ass soon or the mass exodous to satellite and FIOS will be unstoppable.

For those who have Plasma TVs, the gray bars are less damaging to the TV than black sidebars. I have confirmed this with panasonic customer service. Have heard similar from LCD owners, as well.

For those who fell into the plasma trap or the early adopters who own a rear projection CRT and who have MDN, you might want to swap out the box with an ODN box. The MDN box only has black borders, while the ODN box allows you to select two shades of gray or black for the borders.

A poster above asked for any features that are better in Navigator than Passport. There are a few things:

1.) The ability to have instant access to News, Weather, Sports, and On Demand Programs.

2.) The DVR full indicator gage

3.) More control of audio and video settings. I like how you can have the sound remain stable from program to commercial and channel to channel.

4.) The ability to list Favorite Channels first in the Guide. (Although I have never used this feature, but a lot of people like it.)

5.) Better and more reliable Caller ID on TV than with Passport.

Worst things:

1.) A truncated Sports Category list. This list lacks critical sports that need their own category. (i.e why is Tennis not listed?)

2.) The loss of Keyword Search on the Keyboard and letter wrap-around. This is a terrible oversight.

3.) The loss of "View This Channel Now" when selecting program choices on future show selections in the guide.

Keep calling, snail-mailing, and e-mailing TWC bugging the $hit out of them until these features are added. There is safety in numbers. Don't be afraid to do that! For $175 a month on consolidated All In One Service or a greater price, they deserve to be bugged until these changes are made!

Jack

on the dvr page i get a yellow warning sign now when i asume it might be deleted,,i used to get a hourglass with words saying '3 days ' '2 days' etc left til ldleted,,
I dont see any words now..how do i know how long i have left when i get jus ta warning yellow sign,,its useless if it doesnt give me a indication of how long i have left..

on the dvr page i get a yellow warning sign now when i asume it might be deleted,,i used to get a hourglass with words saying '3 days ' '2 days' etc left til ldleted,,
I dont see any words now..how do i know how long i have left when i get jus ta warning yellow sign,,its useless if it doesnt give me a indication of how long i have left..

The guage in Navigator is actually one of Navigator's better features. Definitely better than the 'estimated' days to deletion in Passport. The estimator in Passport often failed me and deleted shows that I thought were still safe. It was hard for Passport to estimate usage since it had to account for both standard and high-def recordings.

The guage tells you what percentage of the available hard drive space is full. Therefore, if it's 75% full, you have 25% space remaining. If you have an SA8300 model STB with the standard internal hard drive, then you have 160GB of available space (twice the space of an SA8000 model). That is equal to approximately 90 standard-def hours or 20 high-def hours of programming. (ie: One hour of standard-def is about 1% of hard drive space and one hour of high-def is about 5% of hard drive space.)

So, using the percentage of available hard drive space, you can estimate how many hours of available recording space you have based on the mix of standard-def and high-def programs you have scheduled to record.

Navigator will tell you with a red 'exclamation point / yield sign' next to any programs that are pending deletion to make room for new programs based on scheduled recordnings, but it doesn't estimate for you when those programs will be deleted.

Edit/PS: Of course, whether a program will be deleted to make room for new recordings depends on what options you set up when the show was recorded, and whether or not you have marked the program to be saved until manually deleted. If you've marked all programs to only be deleted manually, then Navigator will not record new programs when the hard drive is full. Recorded programs marked with a white star in a green circle next to the program are set to only be manually deleted.

Helpful Hints for FAQ about Navigator:

* Most TWC digital cable systems have an On Demand channel called Answers On Demand. This channel should have several videos that can help explain how to use many of Navigator's features.

* Most regional TWC cable websites will also have Navigator user guides and FAQ pages. If you are not familiar with your local TWC homepage, visit the corporate site and enter your zip code. You should find information about Navigator on the main homepage, or under Products/Cable/Navigator or Customer Service/Navigator.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/

For those who fell into the plasma trap or the early adopters who own a rear projection CRT and who have MDN, you might want to swap out the box with an ODN box. The MDN box only has black borders, while the ODN box allows you to select two shades of gray or black for the borders.

Or just 'stretch' the screen (using the '#' on your remote) so that there are no bars - black, grey, or otherwise - on the sides of your standard def programs. :)

The guage in Navigator is actually one of Navigator's better features. Definitely better than the 'estimated' days to deletion in Passport. The estimator in Passport often failed me and deleted shows that I thought were still safe. It was hard for Passport to estimate usage since it had to account for both standard and high-def recordings.

The guage tells you what percentage of the available hard drive space is full. Therefore, if it's 75% full, you have 25% space remaining. If you have an SA8300 model STB with the standard internal hard drive, then you have 160GB of available space (twice the space of an SA8000 model). That is equal to approximately 90 standard-def hours or 20 high-def hours of programming. (ie: One hour of standard-def is about 1% of hard drive space and one hour of high-def is about 5% of hard drive space.)

So, using the percentage of available hard drive space, you can estimate how many hours of available recording space you have based on the mix of standard-def and high-def programs you have scheduled to record.I couldn't disagree with you more on this point. Knowing the percentage of disk space left on the drive is nearly useless, when there are an infinite number of different bit rates used to encode digital video. Only if you always record the same things from a single channel (or all analog) can the information possibly be of use. A certain percentage of the drive free might be worth 5 hours of ABC HD or 7 hours of CBS. You have absolutely no way of knowing unless you've been monitoring bit rates of content on various channels, and while possible (I did it for most of year), it's something that Joe Average is just not capable of doing. It's an idiot-meter.

You have absolutely no way of knowing unless you've been monitoring bit rates of content on various channels, and while possible (I did it for most of year), it's something that Joe Average is just not capable of doing. It's an idiot-meter.

I disagree - I think it is useful - and for the exact reason you said it is not. Because the bitrates vary so much, you can't judge your free space by the number of programs you have recorded. Sure it isn't important until it gets to 90% or so, but when you do see it at 90% you know you need to delete something.

xnappo

For those who have Plasma TVs, the gray bars are less damaging to the TV than black sidebars. I have confirmed this with panasonic customer service. Have heard similar from LCD owners, as well.

I agree.

What I was trying to say was that on the Passport thread, the grey bars were a contanst complaint, people was always wanting to know how to change them to black.

The guage in Navigator is actually one of Navigator's better features. Definitely better than the 'estimated' days to deletion in Passport. The estimator in Passport often failed me and deleted shows that I thought were still safe.

The estimated days is still there. The gauge might be useful but to offset that they buried the days until deletion. With Passport you could highlight the show and gets the estimate with an appropriate icon. In Navigator all you get is some useless warning symbol that tells you nothing until you press info and find the "hours until deletion" buried in the bottom corner of the screen. So then you have to calculate the days as well. Awesome, math with my TV.

I also find it funny that the GUI makes a big deal with "PRESS SELECT" in the dialog boxes but nowhere does it say "Press Info for more information." and that has most of the useful details like deletion estimate (and yes, it's definitely an estimate), running time, the pathetic one line synopsis ...

I couldn't disagree with you more on this point. Knowing the percentage of disk space left on the drive is nearly useless, when there are an infinite number of different bit rates used to encode digital video. Only if you always record the same things from a single channel (or all analog) can the information possibly be of use. A certain percentage of the drive free might be worth 5 hours of ABC HD or 7 hours of CBS. You have absolutely no way of knowing unless you've been monitoring bit rates of content on various channels, and while possible (I did it for most of year), it's something that Joe Average is just not capable of doing. It's an idiot-meter.

It's not perfect, and I didn't say the percentages were exact, but the gauge is still better than Passport's estimations of days remaining until deletion. I haven't noticed any big differences between channels in the amount of space each high-def recording uses. It's been fairly consistent at about 5% per hour, but if I were going away and needed to calculate available space I'd probably use a cushion and estimate 6% per HD hour.

There were several instances where Passport would tell me I had a day or two of space available and then it would still delete recordings 'today'. And, that was something that seemed to happen at random - which would appear to indicate that the varied bit-rate issue you described was the culprit. ;)

Another problem with Passport's estimation was that you'd really be in the dark if you were going away for several days. If, for example, there were no pending deletion warnings present today, it would be quite difficult to know if the '2 day' warnings would start tomorrow but you wouldn't be home for 3 days or more. At least with the percentage of space used indicator, I can better estimate scheduled use and space needs during a vacation.

The estimated days is still there. The gauge might be useful but to offset that they buried the days until deletion. With Passport you could highlight the show and gets the estimate with an appropriate icon. In Navigator all you get is some useless warning symbol that tells you nothing until you press info and find the "hours until deletion" buried in the bottom corner of the screen. So then you have to calculate the days as well. Awesome, math with my TV.

I also find it funny that the GUI makes a big deal with "PRESS SELECT" in the dialog boxes but nowhere does it say "Press Info for more information." and that has most of the useful details like deletion estimate (and yes, it's definitely an estimate), running time, the pathetic one line synopsis ...

Thank you for pointing that out! I never noticed that before! :)

Thank you for pointing that out! I never noticed that before! :)

which makes you wonder how many people in "normal" land don't know either. If they aren't told to press the button will they still press it?

I press every button on every menu just to see what happens.

The "idiot meter" isn't utterly useless--it can provide you with some gross feel for whether you have space for the things that you want to record. Passport's combination of estimated days and the ability to sort the list of recordings in order of deletion worked very, very well for me during the two years that I used it, though, and I doubt that I'd even bother checking a free space meter. Of course, you could easily screw the system up by making unplanned, immediate recordings, like tuning into a movie (or worse, the second hour of an 8 hour tennis tournament telecast on ESPN2 HD) and hitting the REC button.

What's really needed is for the DVR to keep track of bit rates as estimated from recordings on various channels and estimates of recording time left based on what you've have set up to record. Basically, "if all bit rates remain as observed in the past, based on what you have set up to record now, I'll have to delete this recording in 2 days, 7 hours to make space". Everything, of course, is subject to change if you add new recording requests.

It's not perfect, and I didn't say the percentages were exact, but the gauge is still better than Passport's estimations of days remaining until deletion.

I don't see any difference myself. It still will delete on the fly if your upcoming schedule changes. As I have found out. Plus of course you can't prioritize now so that's another black mark against Navigator which is why I needed to see the days left quickly. If something is about to go, I'd rather choose which gets culled first.

The gauge and the actual disk capacity are just two faces of the same thing to me. Neither is reliable if the schedule changes rapidly. Just one is easier to see.

That's one of the 2 or 3 things that Navigator actually does better than Passport. With PP, you had to hit the play button twice at precisely the right speed to get into slo-mo mode. It was very difficult to do. But, you also had frame-by-frame advance and could get a slow motion-like effect by just holding down the arrow button while in pause mode, and that's gone with Navigator.
ive seen this complaint before. but last time i was watching a recorded show and wanted to frame-by-frame through a segment, thats exactly what it did after i hit pause and then using the ff arrow to step ahead one frame at a time. unfortunately, if you hold the arrow, it will eventually jump ahead 15 mins, and using the back arrow skips much farther back than one frame, but still useful...
(mystro/nav on sa8300hdc twc cincinnati)
:)

I don't recall anyone mentioning this, but I can't be the only one to discover some quirkiness (ie: errors) with the 15-minute fwd/back jumps. Sometimes, while holding the Reverse button in order to jump back 15 minutes, and it actually jumps back the full hour in the buffer at once. Other times, instead of jumping back/fwd the designed 15 minutes, it jumps back/fwd just a few minutes to the next 15 minute mark on the clock (like Passport did).

Personally, I strongly prefer Passport's design here (yah, so what else is new, right??) over how they've designed Navigator's jump feature. It's so much better for the jump feature to go fwd or back to the next 15 minute mark on the clock (ie: jump from 10:10pm back to 10:00pm when the program began, rather than to jump in 15 minute intervals (ie: jump back from 10:10pm to 9:55pm and then have to fast forward ahead 5 minutes to reach the beginning of the program, for example).

Aside from these design differences, I still really miss how quick and elegant jump feature worked in Passport. Navigator's jump process is slow and clumsy.

I think I'm gonna start calling this thing 'Aggravator' instead of 'Navigator'. However, I'd be a little less aggravated if they would just speed up the FFW/REW options. (ie: Make the 3 available speeds faster by about 50% each, or add a 4th speed that's about 200% faster than the current top speed).

I don't recall anyone mentioning this, but I can't be the only one to discover some quirkiness (ie: errors) with the 15-minute fwd/back jumps. Sometimes, while holding the Reverse button in order to jump back 15 minutes, and it actually jumps back the full hour in the buffer at once. Other times, instead of jumping back/fwd the designed 15 minutes, it jumps back/fwd just a few minutes to the next 15 minute mark on the clock (like Passport did).

Personally, I strongly prefer Passport's design here (yah, so what else is new, right??) over how they've designed Navigator's jump feature. It's so much better for the jump feature to go fwd or back to the next 15 minute mark on the clock (ie: jump from 10:10pm back to 10:00pm when the program began, rather than to jump in 15 minute intervals (ie: jump back from 10:10pm to 9:55pm and then have to fast forward ahead 5 minutes to reach the beginning of the program, for example).

Aside from these design differences, I still really miss how quick and elegant jump feature worked in Passport. Navigator's jump process is slow and clumsy.

I think I'm gonna start calling this thing 'Aggravator' instead of 'Navigator'. However, I'd be a little less aggravated if they would just speed up the FFW/REW options. (ie: Make the 3 available speeds faster by about 50% each, or add a 4th speed that's about 200% faster than the current top speed).

Your so right.I have both Sara and Navigator.Sara has a fourth fast forward that works great.Wish Navigator would adopt that feature.Maybe the Sara version of Navigator will have it when it comes.

Your so right.I have both Sara and Navigator.Sara has a fourth fast forward that works great.Wish Navigator would adopt that feature.Maybe the Sara version of Navigator will have it when it comes.

Doubtful. Passport had a 4th gear as well, and that was abandoned in Navigator. Without a 15 minute jump feature, as when an expansion drive is hooked up, it takes forever to move through a program.

I couldn't disagree with you more on this point. Knowing the percentage of disk space left on the drive is nearly useless, when there are an infinite number of different bit rates used to encode digital video. Only if you always record the same things from a single channel (or all analog) can the information possibly be of use. A certain percentage of the drive free might be worth 5 hours of ABC HD or 7 hours of CBS. You have absolutely no way of knowing unless you've been monitoring bit rates of content on various channels, and while possible (I did it for most of year), it's something that Joe Average is just not capable of doing. It's an idiot-meter.

Well, I disagree with that. :p I was constantly going into the diagnostic area with Passport in order to find out precisely how much disk space I had used and how much I had remaining, down to a tenth of a gigabyte. I also found that on my local TWC system here in Charlotte, the bit rates were very close no matter what the channel. It was always about 2 to 2 1/2 GB/hour on SD material, and about 5 to 5 1/2 GB for HD material. That made it easy to calculate exactly what was needed for upcoming recordings.

Unfortunately, Navigator provides no such information. In it's diagnostic area, the free space is given in sectors or something - useless for calculating space used or free on the disk. Why they don't give that number in easy-to-understand GB is just one more of the infuriating things about it.

A poster above asked for any features that are better in Navigator than Passport. There are a few things:

1.) The ability to have instant access to News, Weather, Sports, and On Demand Programs.

2.) The DVR full indicator gage

3.) More control of audio and video settings. I like how you can have the sound remain stable from program to commercial and channel to channel.

4.) The ability to list Favorite Channels first in the Guide. (Although I have never used this feature, but a lot of people like it.)

5.) Better and more reliable Caller ID on TV than with Passport.

Worst things:

1.) A truncated Sports Category list. This list lacks critical sports that need their own category. (i.e why is Tennis not listed?)

2.) The loss of Keyword Search on the Keyboard and letter wrap-around. This is a terrible oversight.

3.) The loss of "View This Channel Now" when selecting program choices on future show selections in the guide.

Keep calling, snail-mailing, and e-mailing TWC bugging the $hit out of them until these features are added. There is safety in numbers. Don't be afraid to do that! For $175 a month on consolidated All In One Service or a greater price, they deserve to be bugged until these changes are made!

Jack

#3 - How do I set it so all the channels have the same volume? I must have missed this.

also, evrytime I call I get a message that 'due to increased call volume the current wait is 30 minutes'. Who can set on hold 30 minutes to complain when they have no reasonable answer, I email (complaints) frequently but am certain they are just ignored.

A poster above asked for any features that are better in Navigator than Passport. There are a few things:

You also need to add that Navigator won't record a program you already have recorded, while Passport will happily record 5 copies of the same episode.

You also need to add that Navigator won't record a program you already have recorded, while Passport will happily record 5 copies of the same episode.

Huh? :confused: My Passport system never did that.

Passport's combination of estimated days and the ability to sort the list of recordings in order of deletion worked very, very well for me during the two years that I used it, though, and I doubt that I'd even bother checking a free space meter. .

I loved this feature..is it available in navigaor somewhere? I cant fathom these idiots removing that user friendly feature

Another irritating thing about Mystro/Navigator is when you select a saved program, the first option is to 'delete recording'. Why not 'Play'?

That and no manual recording.

On the plus side is better eSATA support including instant replay.

I loved this feature..is it available in navigaor somewhere? I cant fathom these idiots removing that user friendly featureNo--sorting the list of recordings in deletion order is not a feature of Navigator. It's not that they "removed" it--they just didn't implement it. It's not a feature of either SARA or TiVo either and there are probably patents on it. (Of course, every DVR crosses a brace of patents held by TiVo, so fear of patent violation is little excuse :)).

For those who are unfamiliar, Passport Echo places new recordings at the top of the list of and deletes recordings from the bottom. At any time, you can select one of the recordings and move it either up towards the top of the list or down towards the bottom. If it featured an hourglass and a "will be deleted in N days" warning, if you move a recording sufficiently toward the top, that might disappear, giving you more time to watch it without marking it "Keep Until I Delete".

In the latest versions of Passport (which were never rolled out in the vast majority of TWC markets) you can choose a sort order for the recording list; I assume that "retention priority" (or something like that) is one of the options for sort order.

#3 - How do I set it so all the channels have the same volume? I must have missed this.

also, everytime I call I get a message that 'due to increased call volume the current wait is 30 minutes'. Who can set on hold 30 minutes to complain when they have no reasonable answer, I email (complaints) frequently but am certain they are just ignored.

If you press Settings go to Audio, and set the range to Narrow, it will allow for stable sound across channels and commercials. I'm not sure if this means that all channels will have the exact same volume, but what it means is that you won't get blasted out of the room when a too loud commercial comes on, or when you change channels. I have my settings where the sound comes through the TV. There are also settings that you can adjust if you are using your a separate sound system for your speakers. (The right-hand side of the menu, will tell you what the settings do.) That's nice. Passport didn't have these extra audio settings. I am interested in how they work in relation to separate audio systems.

Agree that the wait time is ridiculous and that TWC should hire more staff. Only thing that I could suggest here would be to call during non-peak hours if you can. Monday's and weekends when everyone is home from work are usually their busiest call times. I have e-mailed them in emergency situations, and have always gotten a response. It's generic a lot of the time, but what I have noticed is that if you keep replying with your incident number ticket, the help does become more detailed. Just bug them until you get the answers you want. My experience has been that inquires with a nice tone, are handled better than a reply in anger.

It is also helpful to keep questions and comments specific to your problem or issue. If it's something with Navigator, don't generalize and just complain that it's a ****** pile of $hit, even though for many it is. List the SPECIFIC problem with your box or DVR. If it's a features request, don't give them a list of 30 things, give them 3-5 max that you would like to see added or modified.

Wishing or saying that you want Passport restored to your box isn't going to happen no matter what you do or to whom you talk about Navigator's faults. This was a corporate decision made by their head-offices in New York with upper-management. Glen Britt, the head CEO of TWC would have to get tons of snail mail to even begin to put a dent in any types of changes. These would have to be requested by the general population in a professional way. Bulk e-mail complaints often wind up in a Spam folder, or deleted anyway.

If your constantly getting a run around from these people, look at other options for your TV choices. But explore all options first.

Jack

If you press Settings go to Audio, and set the range to Narrow, it will allow for stable sound across channels and commercials. I'm not sure if this means that all channels will have the exact same volume, but what it means is that you won't get blasted out of the room when a too loud commercial comes on, or when you change channels. I have my settings where the sound comes through the TV. There are also settings that you can adjust if you are using your a separate sound system for your speakers. (The right-hand side of the menu, will tell you what the settings do.) That's nice. Passport didn't have these extra audio settings. I am interested in how they work in relation to separate audio systems.

Agree that the wait time is ridiculous and that TWC should hire more staff. Only thing that I could suggest here would be to call during non-peak hours if you can. Monday's and weekends when everyone is home from work are usually their busiest call times. I have e-mailed them in emergency situations, and have always gotten a response. It's generic a lot of the time, but what I have noticed is that if you keep replying with your incident number ticket, the help does become more detailed. Just bug them until you get the answers you want. My experience has been that inquires with a nice tone, are handled better than a reply in anger.

It is also helpful to keep questions and comments specific to your problem or issue. If it's something with Navigator, don't generalize and just complain that it's a ****** pile of $hit, even though for many it is. List the SPECIFIC problem with your box or DVR. If it's a features request, don't give them a list of 30 things, give them 3-5 max that you would like to see added or modified.

Wishing or saying that you want Passport restored to your box isn't going to happen no matter what you do or to whom you talk about Navigator's faults. This was a corporate decision made by their head-offices in New York with upper-management. Glen Britt, the head CEO of TWC would have to get tons of snail mail to even begin to put a dent in any types of changes. These would have to be requested by the general population in a professional way. Bulk e-mail complaints often wind up in a Spam folder, or deleted anyway.

If your constantly getting a run around from these people, look at other options for your TV choices. But explore all options first.

Jack

Maybe you need to buy a share of TWC stock before the CEO can be bothered. Investors have much more power over a CEO than customers because investors can vote out a bad CEO during the proxy vote because shareholders own the company. Therefore, complaints to the investor relations departments are much more powerful than complaints to the customer relations departments. However, you can't lodge a meaningful complaint to the investor relations department unless you own stock.

Sara Provides a % of Drive used indicator:. It isn't that hard to figure out: On a % basis per hour, HD recordings use 4%, SD Digitals use 1%, & analogs use 2%.

Sara offers 2 auto-delete options, or none. I don't want any software deleting my saved shows and Sara leaves them alone if I select that option. Otherwise you can make a global-delete election by time, or a # of episodes to save election.

Sara offers 2 options for listing recordings: By alpha-sort, or by date/time recorded.

Sara offers 4 FF/RR speeds which works great. Plus a slo-mo and frame by frame advance/backspace.

Sara offers tons of customizing features: guide color, display options, timers/timer-out, channel to set for turn-on, favorites, plus a ton of others.

Sara works with VOD, SDV, call waiting indication, & most impotantly: Expander Drive without any no-sleep workarounds.

The list of Navigator advantages is a joke & of little value. I use my laptop PC to search for shows in seconds. I hope they keep our Sara here.

Shoot!

I hit the back button and messed up what I was going to say. I don't have the time to retype it out, but here is the gist of it:

Concerning the role of investor relations pertaining to the post above, here is a list of TWC executives at the corporate level:

http://www.timewarnercable.com/corporate/aboutus/management.html

I don't know how much or little they know about Navigator's problems. I also commented on the interest in the new Cisco (formally SA) 8500 DVR. It will be interesting to see how all cable IPG's respond to it.

At the Consumer Electronics Show, was it true that TWC had an 8500 DVR demo box with Navigator running, and it was performing well? Or was this a different cable company with another IPG?

Jack

If you press Settings go to Audio, and set the range to Narrow, it will allow for stable sound across channels and commercials. I'm not sure if this means that all channels will have the exact same volume, but what it means is that you won't get blasted out of the room when a too loud commercial comes on, or when you change channels. I have my settings where the sound comes through the TV. There are also settings that you can adjust if you are using your a separate sound system for your speakers. (The right-hand side of the menu, will tell you what the settings do.) That's nice. Passport didn't have these extra audio settings. I am interested in how they work in relation to separate audio systems.

Agree that the wait time is ridiculous and that TWC should hire more staff. Only thing that I could suggest here would be to call during non-peak hours if you can. Monday's and weekends when everyone is home from work are usually their busiest call times. I have e-mailed them in emergency situations, and have always gotten a response. It's generic a lot of the time, but what I have noticed is that if you keep replying with your incident number ticket, the help does become more detailed. Just bug them until you get the answers you want. My experience has been that inquires with a nice tone, are handled better than a reply in anger.

It is also helpful to keep questions and comments specific to your problem or issue. If it's something with Navigator, don't generalize and just complain that it's a ****** pile of $hit, even though for many it is. List the SPECIFIC problem with your box or DVR. If it's a features request, don't give them a list of 30 things, give them 3-5 max that you would like to see added or modified.

Wishing or saying that you want Passport restored to your box isn't going to happen no matter what you do or to whom you talk about Navigator's faults. This was a corporate decision made by their head-offices in New York with upper-management. Glen Britt, the head CEO of TWC would have to get tons of snail mail to even begin to put a dent in any types of changes. These would have to be requested by the general population in a professional way. Bulk e-mail complaints often wind up in a Spam folder, or deleted anyway.

If your constantly getting a run around from these people, look at other options for your TV choices. But explore all options first.

Jack

You must be describing the audio range in MDN. In ODN, you first have to go to the Devices option under the Quick Settings menu in the settings control panel. This pulls up an extremely spartan full screen submenu with many settings without explanations. The audio range can be chosen here. However, there is no help for any of the options listed here.

This is a user interface misfeature that is not present in MDN. However, MDN has an interface misfeature that confused even me, a person who usually can deal with bad user interfaces with no problem and annoyance most of the time: if someone selects the Cancel Recording option in the List menu on a program that is being recorded, MDN displays the same menu that is shown when you push the stop button on a program being recorded: the three choices Stop & save, Stop & delete, and Continue. The descriptive text shown is rather ambiguous on what you want stopped: do you want to stop the cancel order, or do you want to stop the recording; and if continue is chosen, is the cancel order continued, or do you continue recording? When this menu is invoked by the stop button, it is more clear on what is going on because you are pressing the stop button, but it is still possible to confuse the user due to some abiguity on whether the user wants to stop the stop command or the recording. What should have been displayed is a scrollable menu with the choices "Stop and delete this recording", "Stop recording and keep what has been recorded", and "Continue recording" with icons for the variable function buttons "A", "B", and "C" to the left of those options. This would have left no ambiguity whatsoever.

I heard some sounds like relays going on and off last night and today. Today, I got a "Channel not available" error. Good thing I was not recording. I then told it to try again and it tuned correctly. Shortly after, when I recorded something that I had no intention of keeping in order to test the user interface for an earlier post, I stopped the recording, and the recording was lost. The recording log showed that the box could not record the show, and showed the error code 7 along with that. I then tried to change channels and got a black screen no matter what I did. I rebooted the machine, and it went to a black screen after showing the Scientific Atlanta Axiom OCAP middleware splash screen. I realized this boot had failed, and rebooted again. This time, the machine booted successfully. I then noticed that it felt toasty on the far left area above the box's ventilator. You could see some crowded electronics through the ventilator there. Could something be overheating, causing the "Channel not available" error to show?

If this is true, Cisco needs to add a ventilator to the left side of the box to allow air to come in and cool those components down, like there is a ventilator to the right side of the box.

Sara Provides a % of Drive used indicator:. It isn't that hard to figure out: On a % basis per hour, HD recordings use 4%, SD Digitals use 1%, & analogs use 2%.That wouldn't be a very good approximation for my cable system. 4% of 160GB is 6.4 GB. 6.4 GB/hour is 14.22 Mbps. CBS HD and ABC HD on my system run closer to 18 Mbps; TNT HD, the HDNet and ESPN channels average 18.5 Mbps. If you're going to generalize something that varies widely (bit rates of HD cable content), it's best to assume the worst case--18.5 Mbps is 5.25% of 160 GB per hour. (I don't know--maybe that 14.22 Mbps is the highest bit rate seen on your local system--I think that the current lowest bit rate for HD on my system would tend to be higher. It's probably close to the highest rate you'll see on HBO HD or Showtime HD here).

(Of course, every DVR crosses a brace of patents held by TiVo, so fear of patent violation is little excuse :)).

Hard to say. Companies "trade" patent portfolios all the time, so it's quite possible some companies have permission to use certain Tivo patents.
Another possibility is that Tivo simply chooses not to enforce the patent. IBM owns the patent on the cursor (from an eternity ago), but they choose to not enforce it. And actually, if someone has violated it, after a certain amount of time, you can effectively lose the right to enforce it as I understand it (but I'm not a patent lawyer, so I could certainly be wrong about that - maybe I'm thinking of copyrights).

At the Consumer Electronics Show, was it true that TWC had an 8500 DVR demo box with Navigator running, and it was performing well?

That's what I've heard, but until I get such a box myself, I'm not trusting what someone says they saw in a demo. I'm sure anyone could demo Navigator and make it look like it works well. It's not until you use it on a daily basis that the bugs start to creep out. I'm sure these were controlled demos and the demonstrator knew full well where the pitfalls to avoid were. Heck, they probably even rebooted the box between demos. ;)

BTW, there was a YouTube video circulating that seemed to be a demo of something called "Symphony". Anyone know what that's about?

I heard some sounds like relays going on and off last night and today. Today, I got a "Channel not available" error. Good thing I was not recording. I then told it to try again and it tuned correctly. Shortly after, when I recorded something that I had no intention of keeping in order to test the user interface for an earlier post, I stopped the recording, and the recording was lost. The recording log showed that the box could not record the show, and showed the error code 7 along with that. I then tried to change channels and got a black screen no matter what I did. I rebooted the machine, and it went to a black screen after showing the Scientific Atlanta Axiom OCAP middleware splash screen. I realized this boot had failed, and rebooted again. This time, the machine booted successfully. I then noticed that it felt toasty on the far left area above the box's ventilator. You could see some crowded electronics through the ventilator there. Could something be overheating, causing the "Channel not available" error to show?

If this is true, Cisco needs to add a ventilator to the left side of the box to allow air to come in and cool those components down, like there is a ventilator to the right side of the box.

Yes,

Overheating can relate to so many types of box failure. When I had my old cable analog boxes, we didn't have the room or cable config that we do now, so like a lot of people, we stacked components on top of each other.

The newer boxes and DVR's however, take up much more juice. Therefore, ventilation becomes more of an important issue than in the past. Make sure that your DVR/box top vents and sides are not obstructed, allowing for AT LEAST two inches (the more, the better.) between ventilated areas.

The other thing that might help is to either Power off your box by programing your remote so that the box and TV both shut off and turn on together. If you leave your box on, all the time, more heat is generated, box life can be dramatically shortened. If you don't have universal configuration for your remote so that the box and TV are turning off together, get your remote and do a Yahoo or Google search for the model number of your remote. You should be able to get a file from the search results (generally PDF format) that explains how to program your remote so that you can turn off the tv and the box simultaneously.

If you are having overheat issues, you might want to get a little battery operated or a simple plug in cooling fan and put it on top of the box or DVR (not blocking the vents) to cool it down. The configuration may look stupid, but along with powering down your box or DVR, it will keep it at a cooler temperature.

Jack

You must be describing the audio range in MDN. In ODN, you first have to go to the Devices option under the Quick Settings menu in the settings control panel. This pulls up an extremely spartan full screen submenu with many settings without explanations. The audio range can be chosen here. However, there is no help for any of the options listed here.

I've actually had the range set to narrow for a while and still notice volume changes. I noticed there's also a Volume Control option with the choices Fixed and Variable. Anyone know what that does?

I've actually had the range set to narrow for a while and still notice volume changes. I noticed there's also a Volume Control option with the choices Fixed and Variable. Anyone know what that does?

If it is set to fixed, the cable box will ignore any volume control sent to it. I feel that it is best to first max out the volume on the box, then set the volume control to fixed, and then set the remote control to send volume controls to your television and home theater system. This maxes out the signal to noise ratio on the analog output, reducing noise on the analog RCA outputs.

I'm running Navigator and want to add an external drive. I see where eSata should work fine with Navigator and the live buffer works with Navigator and external drives. Can you still skip 15 minutes at a time by holding RW or FF? Thanks.

^^Wait, it works now? I thought external drives still locked up Navigator boxes after they go into standby?

Did I miss something in a software upgrade?

Hard to say. Companies "trade" patent portfolios all the time, so it's quite possible some companies have permission to use certain Tivo patents.
Another possibility is that Tivo simply chooses not to enforce the patent. IBM owns the patent on the cursor (from an eternity ago), but they choose to not enforce it. And actually, if someone has violated it, after a certain amount of time, you can effectively lose the right to enforce it as I understand it (but I'm not a patent lawyer, so I could certainly be wrong about that - maybe I'm thinking of copyrights).Like you said, "hard to say". I've worked for companies who took out some patent applications purely defensively. They had no intention of restricting use of the idea by others; they just recognized that it was patent-able and wanted to defend themselves against someone else patenting it and possibly sueing them.

I think that we'll see more future suits by TiVo once they've evaluated the long term effects of their patent suit against Echostar. They've been granted patents on most everything to do with DVRs, including the basic concept of recording television on digital computer media. They're just biding their time. They're a bit like Qualcomm and CDMA transceiver tech--no one manufactures broad-spectrum cellular phone chipsets without paying Qualcomm something.

I'm running Navigator and want to add an external drive. I see where eSata should work fine with Navigator and the live buffer works with Navigator and external drives. Can you still skip 15 minutes at a time by holding RW or FF? Thanks.

No, that function is gone with expansion drives in Navigator. Since there's no fourth gear in FF or REW, it thus takes just this side of forever to move "quickly" through a program.

(2) I open up the Guide and if I do not change channels when I press Guide again I have the small preview window of the program on the screen and the rest of the TV screen is black.

Has this ever been resolved? I just got two SA8300HDC boxes running Navigator when I got a couple of new HD Tvs. On both TVs I get this behavior. In some cases it happens when I first turn on the TV (actually I'm turning on everything with the System button). There is a small window in the upper right showing the current channel, and everything else is black. It's as if I had pressed the Guide button.

I can easily reproduce this behavior by pressing Guide. Since it's happening on both TVs, I guessed it is the fault of the cable box, and seeing the above confirms it for me.

So what's the consensus on this? A known bug in Navigator? Any good workarounds?

No, that function is gone with expansion drives in Navigator. Since there's no fourth gear in FF or REW, it thus takes just this side of forever to move "quickly" through a program.

Wrong! Press and Hold FF to skip by 15 minute increments. I haven't tried REW for this. I still like the Passport FF/REW better though. I use a Rosewill/Seagate 750GB eSATA unit.

That wouldn't be a very good approximation for my cable system. 4% of 160GB is 6.4 GB. 6.4 GB/hour is 14.22 Mbps. CBS HD and ABC HD on my system run closer to 18 Mbps; TNT HD, the HDNet and ESPN channels average 18.5 Mbps. If you're going to generalize something that varies widely (bit rates of HD cable content), it's best to assume the worst case--18.5 Mbps is 5.25% of 160 GB per hour. (I don't know--maybe that 14.22 Mbps is the highest bit rate seen on your local system--I think that the current lowest bit rate for HD on my system would tend to be higher. It's probably close to the highest rate you'll see on HBO HD or Showtime HD here).
Thanks for the bit rate reminder. Our systems are similar. The % figures I listed correlated to the DVR gauge which is apparently reading low. The 8300HDC is spec'd for approx. 19 hours of HD recording which equates to 5.26% per hour as you posted. (Not sure if they include the buffer time in that 19 hours or not). I did some re-counts of recorded hours vs. the gauge and notice that it isn't linear. In other words, the % used reads disproportionally high when there aren't many recorded programs. This way the % gauge becomes more accurate as the hard drive fills. It would have made more sense to just make it a true read. The good news is it works because I've gotten to 92% & it still continued to record.

Huh? :confused: My Passport system never did that.

Lucky you. If I set my 8300HD to record all episodes of a show (choices were either all or new only), it would record ALL of them. So, I'd set it up to grab all Thomas & Friends episodes, since there aren't really any new ones on all that often. Before the upgrade to Navigator, the 8300HD running Passport would record them all whether or not it already had them. So I'd end up with 3 or 4 copies of the exact same episodes (the same episode might appear 3 times during the day, or on both Saturday and Sunday, or something similar depending on the series we're talking about). In addition to wasting space, you'd have to step through them when searching for a particular episode.

Navigator correctly decides not to re-record the same episode if it's already grabbed it in an earlier timeslot.

With all the kids shows I record that have the same episode on multiple times during the week, this is a godsend. Or to put it a different way, a fundamental DVR feature that should have been there all along (this was how my DirecTIVO always worked, for example).

Has this ever been resolved? I just got two SA8300HDC boxes running Navigator when I got a couple of new HD Tvs. On both TVs I get this behavior. In some cases it happens when I first turn on the TV (actually I'm turning on everything with the System button). There is a small window in the upper right showing the current channel, and everything else is black. It's as if I had pressed the Guide button.

I can easily reproduce this behavior by pressing Guide. Since it's happening on both TVs, I guessed it is the fault of the cable box, and seeing the above confirms it for me.

So what's the consensus on this? A known bug in Navigator? Any good workarounds?

don't use HDMI. component hook up is the permanent work around posted here. others say to push the PIP button, on then off, resolves the issue temporarily.

Lucky you. If I set my 8300HD to record all episodes of a show (choices were either all or new only), it would record ALL of them. So, I'd set it up to grab all Thomas & Friends episodes, since there aren't really any new ones on all that often. Before the upgrade to Navigator, the 8300HD running Passport would record them all whether or not it already had them. So I'd end up with 3 or 4 copies of the exact same episodes (the same episode might appear 3 times during the day, or on both Saturday and Sunday, or something similar depending on the series we're talking about). In addition to wasting space, you'd have to step through them when searching for a particular episode.

Navigator correctly decides not to re-record the same episode if it's already grabbed it in an earlier timeslot.

With all the kids shows I record that have the same episode on multiple times during the week, this is a godsend. Or to put it a different way, a fundamental DVR feature that should have been there all along (this was how my DirecTIVO always worked, for example).

never had that problem with passport either.
however, navigator has mistakenly recorded reruns of series that are set up as 'New only' even when the guide doesn't have it labeled as new.

don't use HDMI. component hook up is the permanent work around posted here. others say to push the PIP button, on then off, resolves the issue temporarily.

Yes, I can get around it temporarily by using the PIP button as you say, but to give up HDMI for component? Hmm...I can certainly do that, but are there any issues with component? Quality not as good as HDMI?

Yes, I can get around it temporarily by using the PIP button as you say, but to give up HDMI for component? Hmm...I can certainly do that, but are there any issues with component? Quality not as good as HDMI?

some people on other threads claim they can tell a difference in PQ between the 2 but i cant and neither can anyone i know. even if your TV is 1.3 compliant for deep color, I'm pretty sure the 8300 isn't. so you're not getting deep color if thats what you're after. both are capable of transmitting 1080


it's easy enough to try yourself.

Lucky you. If I set my 8300HD to record all episodes of a show (choices were either all or new only), it would record ALL of them. So, I'd set it up to grab all Thomas & Friends episodes, since there aren't really any new ones on all that often. Before the upgrade to Navigator, the 8300HD running Passport would record them all whether or not it already had them. So I'd end up with 3 or 4 copies of the exact same episodes (the same episode might appear 3 times during the day, or on both Saturday and Sunday, or something similar depending on the series we're talking about). In addition to wasting space, you'd have to step through them when searching for a particular episode.

Navigator correctly decides not to re-record the same episode if it's already grabbed it in an earlier timeslot.

With all the kids shows I record that have the same episode on multiple times during the week, this is a godsend. Or to put it a different way, a fundamental DVR feature that should have been there all along (this was how my DirecTIVO always worked, for example).

My mother watches Oprah, and I often have to go through the list to delete duplicates whenever reruns are aired. Navigator seems to be able to decide to not record the duplicate when Oprah was airing new episodes, but it can't remove duplicates of reruns from the recording queue now that Oprah currently is not producing any new shows now that the season ended.

My mother watches Oprah, and I often have to go through the list to delete duplicates whenever reruns are aired. Navigator seems to be able to decide to not record the duplicate when Oprah was airing new episodes, but it can't remove duplicates of reruns from the recording queue now that Oprah currently is not producing any new shows now that the season ended.We've discussed this before. Navigator can only filter duplicate episodes if the program has an episode name. If you ask for Oprah or Cobert Report, you'll get duplicates. If you ask for South Park, you'll only get unique episodes w/o duplicates.

We've discussed this before. Navigator can only filter duplicate episodes if the program has an episode name. If you ask for Oprah or Cobert Report, you'll get duplicates. If you ask for South Park, you'll only get unique episodes w/o duplicates.

During Oprah's 2008 season, duplicates were filtered, giving me only unique episodes. Now that 2007 reruns are being reaired, duplicates of the same episode were being recorded. I did not know what changed, and did not know that there was an episode name field because the only fields I knew about were the title of the show or series, and the description field.

I just found this forum and thread and it is a Godsend! It has already answered many of the questions TW techs seem to have no clue about. My thanks to all of you!

I have a couple of questions I have not seen answered here, but first some background on my equipment.

I ran an eSATA on an SA 8300HD box for a couple of years. It feeds the signal to a 1080i CRT or a 1080P front projector through a manual switch of the component video. Several months ago, I experienced a rash of lockups that I now attribute to TW trying to update my box with Navigator. I finally took my box in and exchanged it for an SA 8300HDC.

I got lots of reboots, usually when I was using List or Guide. I thought I had a bad box so exchanged it for an SA 8300HD with Navigator. While I liked the "feel" of the Navigator I was still getting the reboots so I had a tech come out. That turned into two separate visits by two different techs who both found and fixed signal problems. I still have the reboots and telephone support says I now have a good signal.

I have used Closed Caption all of the time and have not had a reboot in the 24 hours since I turned it off, so I think that is, at least, part of the answer.

I currently have the eSATA disconnected, but would like to turn it back on. It does work with both the 8300HD and 8300HDC, but I have disconnected it to make sure that it is not the problem.

Now my specific questions:

1. I was getting reboots withe the 8300HDC, but during normal useage. I would be watching, maybe recording, and looking at the Guide or List or maybe just starting a recorded show. Can anyone tell me what a reboot caused by using an eSATA when the box goes into sleep mode looks like?

2. I am a little paranoid about reconnecting the eSATA as I had one situation where I lost all the shows recorded on the external drive. I had one of my many reboots and when it got to the fourth box on the Mystro boot screen, it seemed to lock up. It had not progressed for at least five minutes, so I unplugged the box and replugged it for a cold boot. When it finished booting, the shows on the external drive were not listed. Let me tell you that when you lose the finals of your wife's American Idol, you are in BIG TROUBLE! I tried several times to reboot and recover what was on the drive, but no luck. That never happened in two years using the eSATA with Passport. Has anyone else lost what was recorded on the external drive? Is there any way to recover it? Did I just screw up by not waiting for the original reboot?

3. Can you turn off the eSATA to force recording on the internal drive for a specific show (like American Idol), then turn the external drive back on and get its shows back?

Thanks again for your help!

Incidentally, I can change the priority of series recording on the 8300HD, but could not with the 8300HDC. Of course, you still have to be careful with recording single shows from the Guide.

Problem with HDMI? I'm not experiencing it. Just the stupid pop up once in awhile that requires hitting "A" Thats it.

I pray I haven't cursed or jinxed my viewing experience as a result of this post :)

I got lots of reboots, usually when I was using List or Guide. I thought I had a bad box so exchanged it for an SA 8300HD with Navigator. While I liked the "feel" of the Navigator I was still getting the reboots so I had a tech come out. That turned into two separate visits by two different techs who both found and fixed signal problems. I still have the reboots and telephone support says I now have a good signal.


My box without an external drive rebooted 3 times last night. Just rebooted a few minutes ago so I'm waiting for a couple of more. I too have had techs out here that say my signal is good.

Is anyone out there NOT getting spontaneous reboots?

Jim

My box without an external drive rebooted 3 times last night. Just rebooted a few minutes ago so I'm waiting for a couple of more. I too have had techs out here that say my signal is good.

Is anyone out there NOT getting spontaneous reboots?


Raises one hand, touches wood with other ...

My box without an external drive rebooted 3 times last night. Just rebooted a few minutes ago so I'm waiting for a couple of more. I too have had techs out here that say my signal is good.

Is anyone out there NOT getting spontaneous reboots?

Jim

Are you using Closed Caption on HD stations? That seems to be one source of the reboots.

It seems that your box may have a corrupted upgrade, or you are running into one of those bugs in your version of Navigator that the version of Navigator on newer boxes has solved. Some people have reported that their boxes failed after the upgrade. Also, the MDN software train running on your 8300HD seems to have some bugs during fast-forwarding and rewinding. I experienced them causing reboots when I tried to fast forward or rewind while watching an HDTV recording with loads of closed captions while the channel the box was tuned to is another HDTV channel. When I swapped boxes with an 8240HDC box (a box that runs the ODN software train that is a port of MDN to Java), that bug was gone.

However, if you use an eSATA drive, do not swap out your box under any circumstances for now because eSATA drives crash ODN unless you somehow keep the DVR from falling asleep by forcing it to record something 24/7.



I wonder if you could solve the problem with the 8300HDC if you just left it on all the time. Can the box detect if the TV it is connected to is on? If not, leaving the DVR on should keep it recording whatever channel it is set to. Of course, that will aggravate any heating problems.

...
Now my specific questions:

1. I was getting reboots withe the 8300HDC, but during normal useage. I would be watching, maybe recording, and looking at the Guide or List or maybe just starting a recorded show. Can anyone tell me what a reboot caused by using an eSATA when the box goes into sleep mode looks like?

...

3. Can you turn off the eSATA to force recording on the internal drive for a specific show (like American Idol), then turn the external drive back on and get its shows back?

...

1. It does not reboot, it goes to sleep and does not wake up. You turn it on, no signal, no reaction to you hitting Guide or List or Info, ... . You have to manualy reboot it to get it working again. Of course, from the time it went to sleep, it will not wake up to record anything you may have scheduled. The only good thing is that it would not go to sleep while recording, so if you record 24/7, it will not go to sleep.

3. No way to force a recording to an internal drive through software, but you may be able to do it by manually turning off the power to the external drive or disconnecting it, then reconnecting again. But, that may be asking for trouble.

Ok I've had one poster say external drives and navigator retained the ability to FF or RW in 15 minute increments by holding the FF or RW button while another poster said it did not. Can someone with an external drive and navigator confirm that the ability to skip 15 minute increments is still there? This is the only thing holding me up from making a purchase. Thanks.

Ok I've had one poster say external drives and navigator retained the ability to FF or RW in 15 minute increments by holding the FF or RW button while another poster said it did not. Can someone with an external drive and navigator confirm that the ability to skip 15 minute increments is still there? This is the only thing holding me up from making a purchase. Thanks.

I think it has to do with with which model box you have and which version of navigator you have. I have an 8300HD and my external drive works fine, doesn't freeze up my box and I am able to skip in 15 minute increments. My guess is that the problems maybe with the 8300HDC.

My box without an external drive rebooted 3 times last night. Just rebooted a few minutes ago so I'm waiting for a couple of more. I too have had techs out here that say my signal is good.

Is anyone out there NOT getting spontaneous reboots?

Jim

My 8300HD box rebooted the first day that I got "gatored" over a month ago but have had zero reboots since then and other than one missed recording have had no problems with Navigator. I realize I am in the very small minority and I'm sure that as soon as I write this my box will probably reboot.

1. It does not reboot, it goes to sleep and does not wake up. You turn it on, no signal, no reaction to you hitting Guide or List or Info, ... . You have to manualy reboot it to get it working again. Of course, from the time it went to sleep, it will not wake up to record anything you may have scheduled. The only good thing is that it would not go to sleep while recording, so if you record 24/7, it will not go to sleep.



For the couple of weeks I had an 8300HDC, it rebooted a lot, but did not go to sleep and not wake up. The reboots may have been the result of the signal problem that they say is now fixed.

Edit: I take that back! I have had some problems similar to those described as going to sleep and not waking up. They may well have been with the HDC box. I am on my fourth box in the past several months, so I think I am confusing the problems I have had with each. I cannot now say that what I saw was inconsistent with what has been described here previously. I am sorry if I caused any confusion.

Doesn't the DVR box record anything that you are watching, then delete it later? If you just left the box on, wouldn't it think you were watching something and record continuously?

Doesn't the DVR box record anything that you are watching, then delete it later? If you just left the box on, wouldn't it think you were watching something and record continuously?

Never mind! I found some of the old discussions on the sleep problem and they already tried that.

My 8300HD box rebooted the first day that I got "gatored" over a month ago but have had zero reboots since then and other than one missed recording have had no problems with Navigator. I realize I am in the very small minority and I'm sure that as soon as I write this my box will probably reboot.

I too had a reboot that first day (5/6) while paging up thru the guide. I had one other reboot about 2 weeks later (can't recall the circumstances). And, then one more tonite - again while paging up thru the guide. I sensed there was a problem earlier as it was acting sluggish. I haven't had any other reboots occur while the box was on and I was viewing TV (I cannot confirm if there have been any reboots overnight or while I'm not home).

So far, it has only failed to record one time. There was an episode of The View that did not record a couple weeks ago. The recording log said 'Episode Not Available' (not 'Channel Not Available'). I have two 8300HD's with MDN (with several redundant series recordings), and they both failed to record the same episode. I'm not sure if it was a Navigator error or if in fact the episode was pre-empted.

The only other recording issues so far have occurred with The Daily Show and The Colbert Report. Both are set to record 'New and Repeats' at 1:00am and 1:30am, respectively. However, last week, both shows were in re-runs, and Navigator did not schedule to record them since they were not listed as 'New' in the guide. I could record them manually, but they would not record as series. I deleted the series and re-entered them, but still nothing. The series recording resumed on schedule with the first new episodes this Tuesday night. There's obviously a glitch in the software that fails to record non-new episodes even when the option to record repeats has been selected.

I just got an 8300HDC to replace an 8300HD with a bad HDMI port.

The new Mystro software does not list the director's name in the movie description (even the more info window) like the previous software did.

This to me is a huge loss. So many times when I wasn;t sure if I should watch (or record) a movie, if it was a director's work who I liked in the past I'd give the movie a shot. Just another example of 1984 type loss of information. TW would probably say - "we never had director information, brother"

I intend to call the DGA - (Director's Guild) They should have an extreme interest in this loss of "director branding" that consumers used to have access to.

I just got an 8300HDC to replace an 8300HD with a bad HDMI port.

The new Mystro software does not list the director's name in the movie description (even the more info window) like the previous software did.

This to me is a huge loss. So many times when I wasn't;t sure if I should watch (or record) a movie, if it was a director's work who I liked in the past I'd give the movie a shot. Just another example of 1984 type loss of information. TW would probably say - "we never had director information, brother"

I intend to call the DGA - (Director's Guild) They should have an extreme interest in this loss of "director branding" that consumers used to have access to.

My understanding is that one of the first updates that TWC plans to push out later this summer will be expanded program descriptions for Navigator. These current truncated summaries are a disappointment.

On my 8300 HD DVR box (MDN) I am starting to see more expanded descriptions in the On Demand movie category, and here in Metro-Milwaukee Wisconsin, TWC has added years of release for all movies and sitcoms.

I have also petitioned my local division for more Sports listings and a Keyboard Keyword Search feature. I cannot emphasize enough keep calling, e-mailing, snail-mailing your division as much as you can for features such as this to be added. There's safety in large numbers and since Navigator is an "on-going" project, we need to keep our divisions aware of shortcomings, changes, and improvements over time.

Don't be afraid to speak to a level 3 tier CSR when you call to voice questions, comments, or concerns about Navigator! Nice responses/requests IMO do work better than those in anger. However, I am well aware of many people's frustrations with the new software. I also heard that a high-res graphic interface is being developed for Navigator.

What I do not know, is there a priority list for new Navigator functions and features? The current version of Navigator I know for certain IS NOT the final release. It is possible with TWC having Carte Blanche options on Navigator, that they may not have to have a "final release." No reason why the guide can't change as technology changes.

The royal screw up was and is taking away several features that customers previously enjoyed and came to expect. That sucked! Earlier versions of Navigator were a steaming pile of $hit across almost all states and boxes.

We have seen improvements in recording functionality, more stable boxes and DVR's than in the post and somewhat better performance than in the past from the newer HDC DVR boxes. However, it appears that the integrated cable cards are still causing problems with some boxes whether Navigator is on them, or a different GUI guide. Better performance in general, seems to be from the newer non DVR SA boxes and the older 8300 (no C) DVR's.

However, my own experience with Navigator on my 8300 HD DVR has been much better than originally anticipated. But please, everyone, keep calling, e-mailing, or snail mailing your cable division for the Navigator features you want. (For me the most requested are expanded Sports lists, Keyboard Keyword Searches, and a View This Channel Now as a prompt for future program selections in the IPG.) If you don't get the answer you want, take it to higher level support, such as a level 3 tech or operations supervisor. Generally the upper division reps are better with understanding service technology than the level 1 or 2 people who answer the phone.

Jack

Only time I get reboot is when paging through the guide. It has happened 4 times total, and 3 were while recording something. I've had Nav for about 1 -2 month(s).

Of course one was last night after my "jinx" post :)

My box without an external drive rebooted 3 times last night. Just rebooted a few minutes ago so I'm waiting for a couple of more. I too have had techs out here that say my signal is good.

Is anyone out there NOT getting spontaneous reboots?

Jim

I have a 8300HD box and got Navigator about 2 weeks ago. I have had only one spontaneous reboot in that time.

I think it has to do with with which model box you have and which version of navigator you have. I have an 8300HD and my external drive works fine, doesn't freeze up my box and I am able to skip in 15 minute increments. My guess is that the problems maybe with the 8300HDC.

I have 8300HDC with eSATA connected, and 15 minute skip works fine. It's the sleep mode issue that is very annoying, and that one is probably tied to 8300HDC and Navigator versions later than (and not including) 2.4.5_4. If I'm not mistaken, nobody reported sleep mode problems on 8300HD boxes.

Are you using Closed Caption on HD stations? That seems to be one source of the reboots.

Nope.

1. It does not reboot, it goes to sleep and does not wake up. You turn it on, no signal, no reaction to you hitting Guide or List or Info, ... . You have to manualy reboot it to get it working again. Of course, from the time it went to sleep, it will not wake up to record anything you may have scheduled. The only good thing is that it would not go to sleep while recording, so if you record 24/7, it will not go to sleep.


Oddly enough, I've been experiencing this going to sleep and not waking up issue on my non-expansion drive DVR. Have to cold-boot it with the power plug and all is fine. I stopped it by simply not turning it off (no reason not to keep it in the "on" state 24/7 anyway). And I swear, because I just checked it again, that on my expansion drive DVR, the 15 minute skip ahead feature (holding down the FF or REW key for a couple of seconds) is gone baby gone. Still there on my non-expansion drive DVR. Both are 8300HD's. I think. How can you tell for sure?

I've been having an odd/new problem today with the Guide both of my 8300HD MDN boxes. The Guide is not recognizing most of my scheduled series recordings. The Guide's search by keyboard function is also not recognizing most shows in the programming schedule (like they don't exist even though I can see they are there on the screen). I can see the shows listed in the Guide, but if I search for one using the keyboard and then click on the show in the list it says 'no upcoming shows scheduled for that program' - even though programs I've searched for air daily and I can see them listed in the Guide. Oddly, I can still select a show from the Guide to make an individual recording. But, I've tried deleting and re-entering a series recording, and the upcoming airings still do not appear in the scheduled recordings (and none of the scheduled shows are highlited red in the Guide).

We had some storms last night, so it could be some sort of outage - but cable is otherwise fine, and so is phone and roadrunner. I've done a hard reboot and there was no change. I called customer service and the phone rep down in Florida had not heard of any such problems (although he seemed fairly clueless regarding Navigator in general). He sent a signal that resulted in another reboot, but still no change. He reported a trouble call, so we'll see if I get a call back.

Hopefully it will resolve itself soon. Until then, I'll set up individual recordings.

I have a 8300HD box and got Navigator about 2 weeks ago. I have had only one spontaneous reboot in that time.

Ironically my hardware is still performing fine. In fact it's been more reliable than Passport so far! If only the software wasn't such a pain.

That said, since there is almost nothing on TV right now I'm not recording very much. Playback of old stuff has been fine.

other notes:

I've used captions without issue.
No expansion unit.
HDMI connection to DD-capable display with digital coax out to receiver.
Turning the box off at night I can hear it go to sleep at certain times and wake up when switched on but it never has a problem doing that.
Screen saver kicks in on time.
Open rack mount with 8 inch clearance all round.
S-Vid and analog audio connected to a DVD-R.

I wonder if my download procedure had an effect? Did anyone else disconnect from cable shortly before the scheduled mass upgrade in their area or did you get Navigated with everyone else?

Can some tell me how to fix this problem---


Last night I tried to record a show on my 8300HD. It told me I couldn't record the show. It was the first I've seen of this warning so I rebooted the box by pressing POWER and SELECT.


When it rebooted it got stuck on the MYSTRO screen and 4 little blocks were highlighted (out of 6).

I called TWC and they had me unplug it... long story short, it still didn't get past the MYSTRO screen.

Now they are telling me to go get a new box.

I have a lot of content on the box that I like and I don't want to exchange it.

How can I fix it?


Thanks!

I've been having an odd/new problem today with the Guide both of my 8300HD MDN boxes. The Guide is not recognizing most of my scheduled series recordings. The Guide's search by keyboard function is also not recognizing most shows in the programming schedule (like they don't exist even though I can see they are there on the screen). I can see the shows listed in the Guide, but if I search for one using the keyboard and then click on the show in the list it says 'no upcoming shows scheduled for that program' - even though programs I've searched for air daily and I can see them listed in the Guide. Oddly, I can still select a show from the Guide to make an individual recording. But, I've tried deleting and re-entering a series recording, and the upcoming airings still do not appear in the scheduled recordings (and none of the scheduled shows are highlighted red in the Guide).

We had some storms last night, so it could be some sort of outage - but cable is otherwise fine, and so is phone and roadrunner. I've done a hard reboot and there was no change. I called customer service and the phone rep down in Florida had not heard of any such problems (although he seemed fairly clueless regarding Navigator in general). He sent a signal that resulted in another reboot, but still no change. He reported a trouble call, so we'll see if I get a call back.

Hopefully it will resolve itself soon. Until then, I'll set up individual recordings.

Rob,

When you call Customer Service, doesn't that go to your local division? In your case, as indicated by your profile, Ohio? Since there is such differentiation of Navigator's performance from state to state, I always assumed that service calls are routed to the division that they came from. If not, how would a Brighthouse Rep in Florida, know what's up in TWC-Ohio?

Jack

Rob,

When you call Customer Service, doesn't that go to your local division? In your case, as indicated by your profile, Ohio? Since there is such differentiation of Navigator's performance from state to state, I always assumed that service calls are routed to the division that they came from. If not, how would a Brighthouse Rep in Florida, know what's up in TWC-Ohio?

Not anymore. Until recently, we always had only local service reps, but now calls get routed all over the state and country. We still have have the same local phone number, but now it seems that TWC service is on a national grid and calls can get routed anywhere. TWC moved into a big new local headquarters building in Columbus last year, but it seems they don't have many local phone staff these days.

"So far, it has only failed to record one time. There was an episode of The View that did not record a couple weeks ago. The recording log said 'Episode Not Available' (not 'Channel Not Available'). I have two 8300HD's with MDN (with several redundant series recordings), and they both failed to record the same episode. I'm not sure if it was a Navigator error or if in fact the episode was pre-empted"



If I were a DVR I think I would refuse to record The View also

It was always about 2 to 2 1/2 GB/hour on SD material, and about 5 to 5 1/2 GB for HD material. That made it easy to calculate exactly what was needed for upcoming recordings.

Unfortunately, Navigator provides no such information. In it's diagnostic area, the free space is given in sectors or something - useless for calculating space used or free on the disk. Why they don't give that number in easy-to-understand GB is just one more of the infuriating things about it.

HD sectors are just another measure of space, like GB. With the proper conversion factor, it could be used to calculate free/used space in GB, etc. if you want.

I'll be the first to admit, you shouldn't have to be counting sectors (or GB, for that matter) to answer these types of questions. Definitely some room for improvement in the usability dept...

Both are 8300HD's. I think. How can you tell for sure?

I have one 8300HD and one 8300HDC. On mine, the model is clearly labeled on the front of the DVR in the upper right hand corner--one has the 'C' and one doesn't. If yours just say '8300HD', I think you can be pretty sure they're not HDC's...

If I were a DVR I think I would refuse to record The View alsoPerhaps it had old guide data and thought Rosie was still on! :eek:

I have one 8300HD and one 8300HDC. On mine, the model is clearly labeled on the front of the DVR in the upper right hand corner--one has the 'C' and one doesn't. If yours just say '8300HD', I think you can be pretty sure they're not HDC's...

HDC should have a cablecard slot in the rear.

HDC should have a cablecard slot in the rear....with an M-Card in it :).

You can see a picture of the slot in the back-panel view on this (http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps8612/ps8613/product_data_sheet0900aecd806c6920.pdf) spec sheet.

Can some tell me how to fix this problem---


Last night I tried to record a show on my 8300HD. It told me I couldn't record the show. It was the first I've seen of this warning so I rebooted the box by pressing POWER and SELECT.


When it rebooted it got stuck on the MYSTRO screen and 4 little blocks were highlighted (out of 6).

I called TWC and they had me unplug it... long story short, it still didn't get past the MYSTRO screen.

Now they are telling me to go get a new box.

I have a lot of content on the box that I like and I don't want to exchange it.

How can I fix it?


Thanks!

Unplug it when you go to bed for the night and plug it back in when you get up in the morning. Than wait for the reboot. Sometimes this will work. But if it still doesn't, a new box may be the only alternative. I know, it sucks!

Jack

PS. The new boxes can take 5-20 minutes on a reboot, especially the OCAP (C versions.) Please make a note of this. Just to be safe, give it up to 30 minutes. Than if that doesn't work, do a box swap.

I just did a little experiment, now that the newer firmware updates for the SA8300HDC supposedly fixed the HDMI resolution issue many used to have. I'm currently running a MonsterCable M1000 component cable for my video and decided to compare it to a Monoprice HDMI 1.3 cable and an Audioquest HDMI-X cable. I was expecting to see a better picture now with either of the HDMI cables, but found the component to actually give me a slightly (but noticeable) better picture. The two HDMI cables were about the same, which tells me that people's opinions that big company HDMI cables that cost a lot more aren't necessarily better, but a good high end component cable, at least from my observation, looked better. I'm not sure why this is as I expected to see the HDMI look better but maybe it is because TWC or Scientific Atlanta still aren't paying as much attention to HDMI? When does the replacement for the 8300 come out?

I just did a little experiment, now that the newer firmware updates for the SA8300HDC supposedly fixed the HDMI resolution issue many used to have. I'm currently running a MonsterCable M1000 component cable for my video and decided to compare it to a Monoprice HDMI 1.3 cable and an Audioquest HDMI-X cable. I was expecting to see a better picture now with either of the HDMI cables, but found the component to actually give me a slightly (but noticeable) better picture. The two HDMI cables were about the same, which tells me that people's opinions that big company HDMI cables that cost a lot more aren't necessarily better, but a good high end component cable, at least from my observation, looked better. I'm not sure why this is as I expected to see the HDMI look better but maybe it is because TWC or Scientific Atlanta still aren't paying as much attention to HDMI? When does the replacement for the 8300 come out?

Some televisions have better defaults for processing component video than HDMI video, and some have the vice versa situation. You need to tweak your television image processing settings like color, brightness, contrast, tint, and color temperature to get the best image possible from your inputs. The cable box has nothing to do with this situation unless there is some processing going on in the analog out that I am unaware of.

As for the replacement for the 8300 series, it should be out already. This 8500 series is made up of the 8540HDC digital only DVR, 8550HDC analog/digital DVR, and the 8552HDC analog/digital DVR with MoCA, which allows this DVR to communicate with other MoCA-capable cable boxes to offer services like multi-room DVR sharing one hard drive for the whole house. These are new hardwares instead of hacks to put on CableCARDs into existing hardware, so there should be no excuses for the overheating we see in the 8xxxHDC boxes.

As for the replacement for the 8300 series, it should be out already. This 8500 series is made up of the 8540HDC digital only DVR, 8550HDC analog/digital DVR, and the 8552HDC analog/digital DVR with MoCA, which allows this DVR to communicate with other MoCA-capable cable boxes to offer services like multi-room DVR sharing one hard drive for the whole house. These are new hardwares instead of hacks to put on CableCARDs into existing hardware, so there should be no excuses for the overheating we see in the 8xxxHDC boxes.

Any sightings of the 85xxHDC boxes in the Raleigh area?

- Jim

Any sightings of the 85xxHDC boxes in the Raleigh area?

- Jim

Not that I know of. I recently got an 8240HDC when replacing a 8300HD that crashes when HDTV, DVR, and closed captioning are mixed, and that combination will be frequent in our house because my mother occasionally needs to see the word to look it up in a two-way language dictionary.

My guess is that the various cable companies are not deploying them yet for one of these reasons:

The boxes are too expensive.
The cable companies are testing the boxes thoroughly to try to avoid a repeat of the overheating 8300HDC/8240HDC fiascos caused by the rush to meet the FCC deadline.

Once these boxes are deployed, I will ask to change my box out for one of these to speed up ODN Navigator, and get rid of the occasional overheats that crash this box even though it is placed out in the open to minimize overheating.

Not that I know of. I recently got an 8240HDC when replacing a 8300HD that crashes when HDTV, DVR, and closed captioning are mixed, and that combination will be frequent in our house because my mother occasionally needs to see the word to look it up in a two-way language dictionary.

My guess is that the various cable companies are not deploying them yet for one of these reasons:

The boxes are too expensive.
The cable companies are testing the boxes thoroughly to try to avoid a repeat of the overheating 8300HDC/8240HDC fiascos caused by the rush to meet the FCC deadline.

Once these boxes are deployed, I will ask to change my box out for one of these to speed up ODN Navigator, and get rid of the occasional overheats that crash this box even though it is placed out in the open to minimize overheating.I don't that there has been any public sighting of the 85xx boxes anywhere (SARA, Passport, or Navigator).

Some televisions have better defaults for processing component video than HDMI video, and some have the vice versa situation. You need to tweak your television image processing settings like color, brightness, contrast, tint, and color temperature to get the best image possible from your inputs. The cable box has nothing to do with this situation unless there is some processing going on in the analog out that I am unaware of.

As for the replacement for the 8300 series, it should be out already. This 8500 series is made up of the 8540HDC digital only DVR, 8550HDC analog/digital DVR, and the 8552HDC analog/digital DVR with MoCA, which allows this DVR to communicate with other MoCA-capable cable boxes to offer services like multi-room DVR sharing one hard drive for the whole house. These are new hardwares instead of hacks to put on CableCARDs into existing hardware, so there should be no excuses for the overheating we see in the 8xxxHDC boxes.

That could definitely be possible, although I did do the "user calibration" on the HDMI ports (on a Sony A3000). As for the 8500s..I heard about them a few months ago but they still weren't showing on Scientific Atlanta's page so I figured I'd ask.

[QUOTE=mikeynavy1;13990281]I just did a little experiment, now that the newer firmware updates for the SA8300HDC supposedly fixed the HDMI resolution issue many used to have. ..... QUOTE]

What version supposedly fixed the HDMI resolution issue?

I'm on 2.4.9_3 on TWC in Raleigh and it definitely is not fixed.

As for the 8500s..I heard about them a few months ago but they still weren't showing on Scientific Atlanta's page so I figured I'd ask.If you google "8550HDC specification" you can find them on Cisco's site (here (http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps8612/ps8613/7009273.pdf)). One interesting thing is that they've gone from using a pair of 250 MHz main processors to a single 600 MHz one.