So do I just switch the tv to that input and queue up the dvd recorder and then start playing the dvr box? I have time warner with their new navigator on it. I'm assuming then I cannot touch the tw dvr box until it is done recording to the dvd recorder? Thanks for the help.

That's what I have to do for the most part. Because my DVR to TV connection is HDMI, I have to switch the input back to the DVR as I start the recording or I get an error screen because of HDCP. From there, I have to watch what I want to record and make sure to not open the guide or list or hit info, etc since it'll appear on the recording.

So my steps are:
1) switch input to DVD/VHS recorder
2) format DVD and set record time length (it supports "flexible" recording to fill the DVD)
3) switch input back to DVR
4) pause right at the start of the show to record
5) start DVD recorder recording
6) play show to record
7) don't touch anything until show ends (I've been known to hide the remotes ;))

For my DVD recorder anyway, if the show is in HD, it records in a letterbox format and looks pretty good (as long as I remember to make sure the dumb TWC box doesn't drop to 480i).

They don't just want a guide that can run on the boxes that they lease, they want one that can run on the third party subscriber-owned <tru2way> compliant equipment that's on the near horizon. In the not-so-distant future, you will be able to purchase a television that ODN can be downloaded into and run without any set top box whatsoever, from which you will be able to access interactive services like Impulse Pay-Per-View and Video On Demand channels and any other service that TWC can come up with, like on-screen caller-ID (for cable phone service) and "Start Over".

I believe that <tru2way> will spell the end of SARA (R.I.P. :rolleyes:), unless Cisco/SA were to make an OCAP version of it. I'd be surprised if that happened, but then again maybe they'll do it to try to preserve the revenue from SARA licensing fees.

Mike I read on Multumedia that a new vastly improved SARA 2 was in the works from Cisco that could be used on all cabel boxes.Doubt TWC customers will ever see it but they claim it will surpass Passport and rival Tivo and be available to the public.

So do I just switch the tv to that input and queue up the dvd recorder and then start playing the dvr box? I have time warner with their new navigator on it. I'm assuming then I cannot touch the tw dvr box until it is done recording to the dvd recorder? Thanks for the help.
Ben - we are running different software, so I don't know if there's a "Record to VCR" option on yours. Mine offers that function & when active, it allows me to continue using the DVR for other viewing/recording/playback all while the recording takes place. The DVR output to A/V #2 contains only the program that is being recorded - no status bars, IPG screens will show up on the recording.

I had originally considered that a negative, since I would lose what I may have been buffering on the 2nd tuner, but I've come to like that feature too. Although, I don't necessarily trust Navigator's buffering in general, so I tend to record everything to ensure that there's no 'accidents.'


This is the case on my SA Explorer 8000 and 8000HD but not on my 8300HDC. It loses all the buffered recording on both tuners any time change tuners. Either way, I hate Navigator taking control of the tuners away from me.

Either way, I hate Navigator taking control of the tuners away from me.

Yes, of all the negatives associated with Navvy, this is my biggest pet-peeve as well. With passport, I could watch two shows at once, pause one and swap tuners, swap back and it would still be paused. With Navvy, it automatically jumps to live TV when swapped back to the foreground. And forget about keeping the background tuner paused. (...even with PIP.)

Using PIP will keep the background tuner where you want it (behind live TV) but as soon as you kill the PIP, back to live we go! Who wants to constantly have the PIP activated? It's a bummer and a big step back.

Can someone tell me what the difference is between fixed and variable in the audio settings? I have my box hooked up to a 5.1 receiver via digital optical and cant tell a difference between these settings and am not sure what they do....if anything....Thanks!

Can someone tell me what the difference is between fixed and variable in the audio settings? I have my box hooked up to a 5.1 receiver via digital optical and cant tell a difference between these settings and am not sure what they do....if anything....Thanks!

This deals with whether or not the box's volume control buttons do anything. I guess this only works either via PCM or analog audio. In variable mode, they control the volume. In fixed mode, the mute and volume buttons are ignored. My advice is to max out the box's volume control while it is variable, then lock it there by setting it to fixed mode, and then let your TV be your volume control. Set the remote to control volume via TV commands.

My new SA8300HDC does not show a progress meter for a recorded show. And I can find no place to turn this on. Isn't this a function of Mystro? I ask because my SA8300HD shows a progress meter.

SA8300HDC -> TV via HDMI
SA8300HDC -> Active Speakers via Composite Audio

Did you try rebooting the box danno?

Bandwidth Questions:

Can anyone tell me how many MB of space are required on a DVD/BR disk per minute of recording for each of the following? Im I correct that commercialy movies recorded on a disk are NOT compressed?

Would also like to know how much bandwidth is needed for a cable operator to provide the following. I assume that would depend on compression?

480i
720p
1080i
1080p

Perhaps others will also find this useful. Curious as to how much more bandwidth would be required if a cable operator were to provide a 1080p program over the current 1080i/720p offerings.

Thanks in advance...

Just thought I'd report that both of my 8300HD's with MDN are still occasionally failing to record series programs. The problems started a week ago Saturday. The error messages remain the same in the Recording Log: "Set Top Unable to Record Program". I'm guessing the problems are the result of some minor software update they pushed thru recently.

Bandwidth Questions:

Can anyone tell me how many MB of space are required on a DVD/BR disk per minute of recording for each of the following? Im I correct that commercialy movies recorded on a disk are NOT compressed?

Would also like to know how much bandwidth is needed for a cable operator to provide the following. I assume that would depend on compression?

480i
720p
1080i
1080p

Perhaps others will also find this useful. Curious as to how much more bandwidth would be required if a cable operator were to provide a 1080p program over the current 1080i/720p offerings.

Thanks in advance...There's no short and easy answer to that question. Although some cable operators have used "rate shaping" to optimize bandwidth utilization, I think that many, including my own, merely present the feeds that they get from the content provider at whatever rate it comes at. The broadcasters mostly get their feeds from their affiliated national networks at some far-too-high to broadcast rate (typically 45 Mbps) and choose a rate for local broadcast. (The notable exception to this is Fox, who supply their network content pre-encoded at broadcast rates to minimize the amount and cost of equipment necessary to broadcast it). The networks supply such a high bit rate because they expect the broadcasters to be decoding it and re-encoding it and switching it around as they add their local content and overlays to it before it gets transmitted, a process which can add considerable error, so it's best to keep things at as high a bit rate as possible until the last moment.

The rates chosen by local San Diego broadcasters seems to be pretty independent of resolution. 720p is 12% fewer pixels/sec displayed than 1080i, yet KGTV, our local ABC affiliate, has always had one of the higher bit rates of any local broadcast, currently averaging around 17.5 Mbps for 720p. KNSD, the NBC affiliate, typically broadcasts their 1080i content at around 16 Mbps. KFMB, the CBS affiliate, used to broadcast their content at around 13 Mbps, but has recently revamped their equipment, in part to add the ability to broadcast DD 5.1, concurrently raising their rate to around 18 Mbps for 1080i.

The 480i digital cable channels are usually stacked 8-10 per 6 MHz QAM carrier (the amount of bandwidth required for one analog channel or two digital HD channels at a maximum of 19.4 Mbps)--they tend to run about 4 Mbps or lower.

The HD cable channels vary pretty wildly. The 720p ESPN HD channels seem to run about 18 Mbps, as do the HDNet channels, which are 1080i. I recently ran some estimates of bit rate on UHD (1080i), and found that the programs that I recorded there were running 10 Mbps or less, though they looked astonishingly crisp and artifact-free. A number of the NBC/Universal Cable group channels (Bravo HD, Sci Fi HD, USA HD, etc) are stacked three to a satellite transponder and probably have about the same bit rates. The HD premiums like HBO HD supposedly produce tight, hand-tweaked multi-pass encodings of their content at variable bit rates and run from around 7 Mbps to 13 Mbps average, depending upon the content (at least they did a couple of years back, the last time I did any measurements).

No one broadcasts 1080p, though 1080p30 and 1080p24 are formats in the ATSC standard and all ATSC and QAM tuners should be certified to handle them, so it might happen in the future. HD video discs like Blu-ray are encoded at 1080p24, 24 frames/sec being the rate at which movies are projected in theaters. 1080p30 is exactly the same number of pixels/sec as 1080i60 and 1080p24 is actually fewer, so MPEG-2 video encoded at those resolutions shouldn't take more bandwidth to produce results of equivalent quality. I'm not aware of anyone using 1080p60 for video; that would require somewhat more bandwidth to support. Probably, should it ever come to be used, they'd switch to a more efficient encoding than MPEG-2; it could probably be supported at the same kinds of bit rates in MPEG-4/AVC or VC-1.

Mike:

As always, thanks for the clear and detailed explanation. I really appreciate the time you and other advanced users spend to support this board.

If you are recording a show that hasnt completed.......and you start watching.....you will get no progress meter. Progress meter only shows up when recordings have completed and you select the show from the list

For example.....last night I was recording the Olympic trials from 8-9. At about 830....I started watching from the beginning and there was no indication on the meter what time you are currently at. You pretty much have to eyeball it and guess.

Pretty sad oversight by TW

Tony

If you are recording a show that hasnt completed.......and you start watching.....you will get no progress meter. Progress meter only shows up when recordings have completed and you select the show from the list

For example.....last night I was recording the Olympic trials from 8-9. At about 830....I started watching from the beginning and there was no indication on the meter what time you are currently at. You pretty much have to eyeball it and guess.

Pretty sad oversight by TW

Tony

Nah, what's really sad is that typically when I start watching while it's still recording, by the time I get to the point in the recording when I started watching, the recording gets all hosed. Happened again this weekend when I was recording Saturday Night Live. It makes me very nervous to start watching while it's still recording.

I've had an increase in the number of problems requiring me to pull the plug over the last couple of weeks. And I've checked and seen no indication that the software has been modified.

So do I just switch the tv to that input and queue up the dvd recorder and then start playing the dvr box? I have time warner with their new navigator on it. I'm assuming then I cannot touch the tw dvr box until it is done recording to the dvd recorder? Thanks for the help.
Watch the DVD recorder on the TV and when everything is correct, you will see playing what you plan to record. Play something from the DVR and you should see your commands and the show start. When you hit record on the recorder you will record what you see. Hard to explain, but think about it some. Best is to waste a 25 cent disk and start practice recording. You can record over and over again (many small segments) for 2 hours (decent quality) or much longer if you just want to test and don't care about quality. You should be able to fast forward/rewind and record everything you do. SARA is the only one with working "record to VCR" ability I have heard. I use the "to VCR" output to my recorder and it outputs the same as the the other output so is really only an additional output for me. /Dan

New news? TWC released a new Navigator. Now at 2.4.10_11.

We also have a bunch of new HD channels in Kansas City, about 50 total now.

New news? TWC released a new Navigator. Now at 2.4.10_11.

We also have a bunch of new HD channels in Kansas City, about 50 total now.

Any improvements to the glitches documented in this thread? And, are all those new HD channels due to SDV?

When I get a chance, I'll go through the wish list thread. I don't notice anything new in the Settings but I haven't looked closely yet. Heading to work, will check later today.

KC did start SDV about a month ago, about 1/4 of the HD channels are SDV - most of the new ones. They also plan to move a bunch of SD channels to SDV next month and add even more HD.

Ask here if you want me to check something in particular.

New news? TWC released a new Navigator. Now at 2.4.10_11.

We also have a bunch of new HD channels in Kansas City, about 50 total now.

Found the TWC-KC press release. I like how they are reorganizing the channel numbers.
http://www.timewarnercable.com/InvestorRelations/PressReleases/TWCPressReleaseDivDetail.ashx?PRID=2295&MarketID=22

It sounds like they still haven't added USA or SciFi... those are two I'm eagerly waiting for!

So I've found something Navigator does pretty well. VOD works much better than on Passport. It still can take several seconds to access a program, and sometimes programs fail to load - just like with Passport. But, watching VOD programs is a much better experience with Navigator (at least it is on my 8300HD with MDN). Programs pause and resume much quicker (ie: much faster response to remote input); the 'jump-back' button actually works; and there are real differences in FF and REW speeds, so the highest speed actually moves at a decent pace.

Plus, I also really like finding a VOD program in the main Guide and being able to start the program directly from the Guide instead of having to go to the VOD channel.

The VOD channels and menus also look better and are better organized.

TWC programmers have certainly dropped the ball on DVR stabilty and general Guide usabilty/convenience features, but with VOD they actually got some things right.

So I've found something Navigator does pretty well. VOD works much better than on Passport. It still can take several seconds to access a program, and sometimes programs fail to load - just like with Passport. But, watching VOD programs is a much better experience with Navigator (at least it is on my 8300HD with MDN). Programs pause and resume much quicker (ie: much faster response to remote input); the 'jump-back' button actually works; and there are real differences in FF and REW speeds, so the highest speed actually moves at a decent pace.

Plus, I also really like finding a VOD program in the main Guide and being able to start the program directly from the Guide instead of having to go to the VOD channel.

The VOD channels and menus also look better and are better organized.

TWC programmers have certainly dropped the ball on DVR stability and general Guide usability/convenience features, but with VOD they actually got some things right.

I agree Rob,

The VOD menus look cool and are one of the areas about Navigator that I like. I also like Caller ID on TV, Sports Now, and instant access to On Demand. Note that I have an 8300 box using MDN, not an 8300C with OCAP.

My issues are more what TWC took away in functionality more than Navigator "bugs." I haven't really had any bugs with my box. I do get duplicate channel listings on a few stations that don't exist, and the Sports Category list needs more sports added. It looks like parts of Navigator were composed by development teams responsible for different time eras mixed into one package. There are a few good things, but for the things that are truncated from Passport or not there at all, (i.e Keyboard Keyword Search) you have to wonder what TWC was smoking? Overall, this guide is NOT an upgrade. It's a different way of presenting information. That's it.

Jack

So I've found something Navigator does pretty well. VOD works much better than on Passport.

Wasn't the VOD part of Passport just a separate component that was added on to the already aging Passport version we had?

As far as I remember all the separate interactive components plugged in to the Passport version we had all worked terribly. Like the customer service pages, the news and information channel, the games etc. I blame that on the fact we were still stuck on a very old Passport version and TWC were just adding bloatware to something that wasn't optimized to handle it.

Who knows how well the current version of Passport handles the VOD services?

And if you think Nav VOD is an improvement overall, try using it on a 2000 box where Nav takes a week to load a day. ;)

Ask here if you want me to check something in particular.

Since you've pulled the short straw to beta test the latest incarnation ...

Did they fix the rewind/jump forward?

Add a progress indicator back to the live TV timeline?

Change any menus?

Change the tuner swapping role?

Hold the guide info in memory after power off?

Two week guide? Yeah, I'm just being stupid there. :D

Since you've pulled the short straw to beta test the latest incarnation ...

Did they fix the rewind/jump forward?

Don't notice any issues with this. Explain.


Add a progress indicator back to the live TV timeline?
Don't follow you, it always did.


Change any menus?
None that I can see. No changes in Settings that I can see.

Change the tuner swapping role?
explain. likely not as I see no new options in settings.


Hold the guide info in memory after power off?
don't know how to confirm, when you reboot, guide is back, but it does take forever to boot still.


Two week guide? Yeah, I'm just being stupid there. :D
Only one week.

Since you've pulled the short straw to beta test the latest incarnation ...

Did they fix the rewind/jump forward?

Add a progress indicator back to the live TV timeline?

Change any menus?

Change the tuner swapping role?

Hold the guide info in memory after power off?

Two week guide? Yeah, I'm just being stupid there. :DYou're issuing questions about MDN shortcomings to someone who has a new ODN release.

You're issuing questions about MDN shortcomings to someone who has a new ODN release.

No I'm not.

Unless your version doesn't jump forward in reverse, swap tuners when changing channels, include a timecode indicator on the live TV progress bar, have two weeks guide info etc.

Does it?

Ask here if you want me to check something in particular.

Thanks for volunteering for this.

1. Is the eSATA bug fixed (the one where it goes to sleep mode after a couple of hours of inactivity, and if it is connected to eSATA drive, it does not wake up without manual reboot)? I think you can test whether it goes in the sleep mode even without eSATA connection (it doies not get hosed, but I believe it stops buffering after a while).

2. Is the New recording bug fixed (the one where you set a series recording to record only New episodes, but you still get some repeats and/or multiple instances of the same episode)? That used to work well in 2.4.5_4, but got broken in 2.4.9_3. You can try it by scheduling, say, Daily Show or Colbert Report, and check in Scheduled Recordings if you got only one episode per day.

3. In Record Series Options, did they add somehing to allow you to restrict by day/time slot (I think MDN version may have this)?

4. The HDMI problems (picture getting stuck in the right upper corner, resolution on HD channels sometimes getting lowered to 480i for no apparent reason) - is this fixed?

Thanks.

Thanks for volunteering for this.

1. Is the eSATA bug fixed (the one where it goes to sleep mode after a couple of hours of inactivity, and if it is connected to eSATA drive, it does not wake up without manual reboot)? I think you can test whether it goes in the sleep mode even without eSATA connection (it doies not get hosed, but I believe it stops buffering after a while).

I never got my WD750GB drive to work direct attached with the old version and still no go with the new. I think I may need an enclosure.

2. Is the New recording bug fixed (the one where you set a series recording to record only New episodes, but you still get some repeats and/or multiple instances of the same episode)? That used to work well in 2.4.5_4, but got broken in 2.4.9_3. You can try it by scheduling, say, Daily Show or Colbert Report, and check in Scheduled Recordings if you got only one episode per day.

There may be hope for this being fixed. I haven't seen duplicates yet.

3. In Record Series Options, did they add somehing to allow you to restrict by day/time slot (I think MDN version may have this)?

I don't see this.


4. The HDMI problems (picture getting stuck in the right upper corner, resolution on HD channels sometimes getting lowered to 480i for no apparent reason) - is this fixed?

Yes, this does seem to be fixed. I saw it get stuck for a second and then it figured itself out. Haven't seen it stuck since the upgrade.

I don't think there are really any new features in this version unless they are hidden. Seems to be mostly bug fixes.

I never got my WD750GB drive to work direct attached with the old version and still no go with the new. I think I may need an enclosure.



There may be hope for this being fixed. I haven't seen duplicates yet.



I don't see this.



Yes, this does seem to be fixed. I saw it get stuck for a second and then it figured itself out. Haven't seen it stuck since the upgrade.

I don't think there are really any new features in this version unless they are hidden. Seems to be mostly bug fixes.

Thanks for the info. Looks like this may be an upgrade to look forward to (for a change).

Thanks for the info. Looks like this may be an upgrade to look forward to (for a change).

JHC! No manual record?

Thanks for volunteering for this.

1. Is the eSATA bug fixed (the one where it goes to sleep mode after a couple of hours of inactivity, and if it is connected to eSATA drive, it does not wake up without manual reboot)? I think you can test whether it goes in the sleep mode even without eSATA connection (it doies not get hosed, but I believe it stops buffering after a while).

2. Is the New recording bug fixed (the one where you set a series recording to record only New episodes, but you still get some repeats and/or multiple instances of the same episode)? That used to work well in 2.4.5_4, but got broken in 2.4.9_3. You can try it by scheduling, say, Daily Show or Colbert Report, and check in Scheduled Recordings if you got only one episode per day.

3. In Record Series Options, did they add somehing to allow you to restrict by day/time slot (I think MDN version may have this)?

4. The HDMI problems (picture getting stuck in the right upper corner, resolution on HD channels sometimes getting lowered to 480i for no apparent reason) - is this fixed?

Thanks.

When creating a series recording on the SA8300HD, there is an option to select either all showings, or only shows at the time of the show you selected to create the series recording.

Sounds like that isn't there on the SA8300HDC?

Has anyone else had blank channels recently? My ABC HD, CBS HD, SHO HD are all showing black screens. Info is available for what should be on. DVR log says "unable to record" for programs on these channels. This has been happening for 2-3 days.

Also, thanks for all the info, Xenophonite. The promise of more HD channels makes the Navigator switchover more bearable. I don't think *any* TWC subscribers have SCIFI HD though, so that will probably be a ways off.


--

TWC here in Cinci, OH. 8300HD Navigator 2.4.1-92 (MDN). ESATA 400GB enclosure attached (with occasional video stuttering). SDV not enabled here.

Just to confirm,

Are some cities still giving out old Pioneer 1000 and 2000 refurbished boxes? Here in Milwaukee, everything is SA.

Jack

There are actually "start later" and "end earlier" options? I don't have ODN, but I believe that it had "start sooner" and "end later" options already.

Yeah, I remember that, but not that many time stamps. Also, is the option to record new and repeat episodes new?

Otherwise, false alarm.

Yeah, I remember that, but not that many time stamps. Also, is the option to record new and repeat episodes new?

Otherwise, false alarm.

Nope its all been there on mine (my parents actually) for awhile. Bright House in the Central Florida Region (Deland, Near Daytona Beach).

My parents have had nothing but issues with the Mystro software. The record new, and new and repeat is one that's been very frustrating. The other is that all 3 have exhibited random stuttering of recorded programs, on demand content, and if i remember right it even happens when its not recording a show.. just plain live tv. Another issue they have is the inability to rewind a channel you're watching live sometimes.. having to resort to switching the channel to something else and back again to get it to be able to rewind after that.. of course defeating the purpose.

They've gone through 4 8300 HDC boxes in the last 4 months. I really wish they had passport back... everytime I'm visiting here there's an issue with it and they've nearly given up. We're having a Tech come out again even though we had one come out 2 days ago and changed the box. They claim they have no idea about the record new and record new and repeat problem, with the latest support person on the phone again claiming no one has reported the issue... that being where selecting new would still record new and repeat episodes of a show (examples being Mad Money (CNBC), Colbert Report, and The Daily Show). It was pretty obvious its a software bug and they refuse to acknowledge it. Maybe there is some hope.. the latest support person I was on the phone with said she will have a supervisor contact us, and credited us for some service. Frustrating to say the least.

That being said, what can I do to make this apparent to them that this is an issue and I'm not satisfied? I want to show them that other people have this issue.. and I'm thinking about printing out the replies on here and reading them off to the supervisor and showing the Tech when they come. Can anyone confirm the freezing to be a software issue also? I'm pretty sure its not but I'm starting to wonder...

One place to start is with checking the software version, I looked back a few pages but I can't seem to find how to do that. It was hard enough finding this thread in the search.
Edit: Found how to check software

Appreciate the help.

New news? TWC released a new Navigator. Now at 2.4.10_11.

We also have a bunch of new HD channels in Kansas City, about 50 total now.

Found the TWC-KC press release. I like how they are reorganizing the channel numbers.
http://www.timewarnercable.com/InvestorRelations/PressReleases/TWCPressReleaseDivDetail.ashx?PRID=2295&MarketID=22

It sounds like they still haven't added USA or SciFi... those are two I'm eagerly waiting for!


Thanks for the heads up! I was not aware that some of the HD channels had moved. I had been looking for Discovery HD, but not found it.

TW KC has also updated the MDN software. On page 14 of the diagnostic screen I now have:

PTV: v6.14.94.1sp 5/22/08
RES 2.4.1-107-ptv 6/3/08
HOST 1.37 MDN 2.4 6/3/08

I guess now I will go see if I can get it to re-boot with Closed-Captioning on.

Hm I seem to have a different box all together. My boot strap is at 9.20.2007 2.4.6_1 and the rest (network, monitor, ODN) are version 2.4.9_3 dated 1.24.08... what type of box do you have mike? I also only have 9 diagnostic pages... I have the SA 8300 HDC... holding select and pressing the down button when the message light comes on.

Am I in the right place? 8300 HDC has power tv and esmertec on reboot. Then the blue mystro screen pops up... this is the Navigator software correct?

2. Is the New recording bug fixed (the one where you set a series recording to record only New episodes, but you still get some repeats and/or multiple instances of the same episode)?

For the most part, I've not had that problem. HOWEVER, I did just have it this week as I noticed a zillion scheduled recordings of Robin Hood. But no other shows I'm set to record are doing that and this was the first time since the 2.4.9_3 upgrade that I can recall.

My guess is this new release is nothing but minor tweaks that won't really be apparent.

Am I in the right place? 8300 HDC has power tv and esmertec on reboot. Then the blue mystro screen pops up... this is the Navigator software correct?

Yes, right place. You have the ODN (vs. MDN) version of Navigator. We have the same version here in the Raleigh-Durham, NC area.

...that being where selecting new would still record new and repeat episodes of a show (examples being Mad Money (CNBC), Colbert Report, and The Daily Show). It was pretty obvious its a software bug and they refuse to acknowledge it.This has been discussed before, and there is some debate about whether this is a bug or not. The issue is that the system can only identify unique episodes if they, in fact, have an episode name. The examples you give do not have episode names, so it will record all airings of the program. An example of where it works well, is South Park. This program airs several times a week, but if you set it up as a series recording, you will get only one copy of each episode.

This feature is independent of the "new" property associated with the series setup. The system's ability to filter new episodes is dependent on the accuracy of the program guide. For the series I've set up, it's never been wrong (knock on wood).

This feature is independent of the "new" property associated with the series setup. The system's ability to filter new episodes is dependent on the accuracy of the program guide. For the series I've set up, it's never been wrong (knock on wood).

Ah I was thinking this as well. As some shows it was doing this, and others it was not. I've had the (unfortunate) experience of having Adelphia which then became Comcast in my apartment in Orlando. Despite the really basic nature of the DVR software that came on it (which is probably unlike anything thats been posted for the 8300... maybe it was the SARA based program)... it had the ability to have it only record the series every time it played in a certain time slot. If this is the issue (the programming guide lacking data on new or repeat) then they should compensate for it through that method. It really shouldn't be that hard to fix the problem either way though.. the method I have would allow for us not to go nuts with a lot of un-necessary recordings while they fix the problem.

My box is an SA 8300HD without the C. It runs the MDN version of Navigator. xenophonite has the SA 8300HDC which runs the ODN version of Navigator.

The SA 8300 HD with the MDN Navigator had a problem with rebooting when you used Closed Captioning. I tried to crash the new version, but, so far at least, have not been able to. I will try this for a week or two before I hook the eSATA drive back up.

My box is an SA 8300HD without the C. It runs the MDN version of Navigator. xenophonite has the SA 8300HDC which runs the ODN version of Navigator.

The SA 8300 HD with the MDN Navigator had a problem with rebooting when you used Closed Captioning. I tried to crash the new version, but, so far at least, have not been able to. I will try this for a week or two before I hook the eSATA drive back up.

eSATA has nothing to do with this. The closed captioning implementation probably has a bug known as a buffer overflow. Trading in your box for a box running ODN or not using closed captioning at all are the only ways to solve this problem. However, the ODN boxes with ODN 2.4.9_3 currently fail with eSATA. Maybe the new version of ODN that just rolled out in some markets might fix this.

EDIT: Actually, what I wrote about eSATA having nothing to do with this may be garbage. :o I know that the closed captioning code crashes when mixed with HDTV and DVR. It is possible that some of the DVR code messed up by closed captioning also handles eSATA. However, the solutions I outlined still stand.

This has been discussed before, and there is some debate about whether this is a bug or not. The issue is that the system can only identify unique episodes if they, in fact, have an episode name. The examples you give do not have episode names, so it will record all airings of the program. An example of where it works well, is South Park. This program airs several times a week, but if you set it up as a series recording, you will get only one copy of each episode.

This feature is independent of the "new" property associated with the series setup. The system's ability to filter new episodes is dependent on the accuracy of the program guide. For the series I've set up, it's never been wrong (knock on wood).

No debate here. It's a definite software bug. No ifs, ands, or buts! :p

When setting up series recordings. I never use the "New Episodes" feature. I just don't trust the Guide to be correct, and the Navigator Guide seems to toss around the word 'New' a lot - even when an episode is airing the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th time that day or even the next day. It's ridiculous! If a program is scheduled to air multiple times per day, I just choose the specific time I want it to record rather than select all airings. Sometimes, I may get extra episodes (particularly weekend shows since Navigator offers no option to choose specific days of the week), but I'd rather have to delete something I don't need than have the recording fail in the first place.

I always use the "New & Repeat Episodes" option with series recordings. But, Navigator seems to pick and choose to record or not record 'repeat' episodes however it darn well pleases. This past week, The View was in reruns so there was no 'New' indicator in the guide. Navigator chose to record 2 of 5 episodes. The Daily Show and The Colbert Report were also in reruns. One day both shows recorded and another day neither show recorded. On two other days, it chose to record one but not the other. It's schizophrenic! If I tell it to record every episode that airs at 1am, then dammit it should record every episode at 1am regardless if its new or not! :mad:

I'm sure there would have been issues with The Tonight Show, too, since it was also in reruns. But, since it was airing 15 minutes later than usual due to Wimbledon highlights, it was not scheduled to record at all this week. I have it set to only record at 11:35pm so I don't also get the 3:35am episodes.

PS: I haven't had any other program recording failures (not related to reruns) in the past three days since I started leaving the STB on all the time rather than turning it off when not watching TV. I still turn the TV off when not watching, and they are connected via HDMI. In the preceding several days, there were multiple recording failures of a variety of programs at various times with the resulting error message "Set top unable to record program." I probably just jinxed it, but perhaps leaving it on is the resolution to the problem until they can resolve it with a software patch.

No debate here. It's a definite software bug. No ifs, ands, or buts! :pJust for the benefit of others, it might be good to mention that you have an MDN system when debating comments made by an ODN user. Possibly, the functionality of these systems in this particular area may be different.

When creating a series recording on the SA8300HD, there is an option to select either all showings, or only shows at the time of the show you selected to create the series recording.

Sounds like that isn't there on the SA8300HDC?

On SA8300HDC, there is no such option (at least on 2.4.9_3; that's why I was asking if it got added).

For all of you guys/girls who are bitching about TW's new software, according to a local TWC spokesperson, you just can't handle change well.... :D

Change is always a challenge for people That's from an article in today's Dayton (OH) Daily News, Time Warner's new guide under fire (http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/07/03/ddn070408timewarner.html)

For all of you guys/girls who are bitching about TW's new software, according to a local TWC spokesperson, you just can't handle change well.... :D That's from an article in today's Dayton (OH) Daily News, Time Warner's new guide under fire (http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/07/03/ddn070408timewarner.html)

Haha, incompetence at its best. Lets change the guide without testing it fully and not adding all the features or most of the features the previous one had. Then when it starts screwing up, we'll be slow to roll out new changes because we hired a very small number or programmers for the guide... which I'm sure the savings of which has been more than eaten up by calls to customer service and Tech visits. When people bitch even more, its just cause they're idiots and don't like change.

This has been discussed before, and there is some debate about whether this is a bug or not. The issue is that the system can only identify unique episodes if they, in fact, have an episode name. The examples you give do not have episode names, so it will record all airings of the program. An example of where it works well, is South Park. This program airs several times a week, but if you set it up as a series recording, you will get only one copy of each episode.

This feature is independent of the "new" property associated with the series setup. The system's ability to filter new episodes is dependent on the accuracy of the program guide. For the series I've set up, it's never been wrong (knock on wood).

Of course, it the guide data is all wrong, the software has no chance. But, in 2.4.5_4, it relied on visible New flag in guide data (i.e. the description starts with the word "New"), so it was predictable, and it was 100% accurate; it also somehow knew not to record multiple instances of the same, say, Daily Show, even if they were all marked New. It also was able to pick which one of the several instances of the same show to record based on whatever else you have scheduled in order to avoid conflicts (I really liked this feature); for example, your "Scheduled Recordings" indicate you have Colbert scheduled for 11:30PM; then you schedule some other shows at the same time, and it will quietly drop 11:30 Colbert and schedule the morning rerun instead; no user intervention required, no conflict reported when you are scheduling other shows (unless there is no other non-conflicted slot to chose from).
All of that is gone in 2.4.9_3, now what gets recorded is hit-and-miss in a manner I can not predict, and no smart re-scheduling to avoid conflicts, so it most definitely is a bug. That's why I was asking if in 2.4.10_11 this got fixed.

No matter what I set the Power-On Channel to, the SA8300HDC always starts up on channel 1. Is this a known bug?

^I set the power on channel to Discovery HD Theatre and it works.

On recording schedules, I see no duplicate recordings when looking at futures. If you find a show that does show duplicates, let me know and I'll check.

I'm not noticing any bugs with the new Navigator. Seems like basically all of the issues I used to have are gone. I wish it had new features though, especially eSATA support.

I'm not noticing any bugs with the new Navigator. Seems like basically all of the issues I used to have are gone. I wish it had new features though, especially eSATA support.

You just aren't seeing the drive recognized at all right? And that was the case previously as well? That isn't the symptom most people are seeing, I still have hopes that if you get a new case and/or drive it will work.

xnappo

No matter what I set the Power-On Channel to, the SA8300HDC always starts up on channel 1. Is this a known bug?When I see channel 1 when I power on, it means it rebooted last night.

You just aren't seeing the drive recognized at all right? And that was the case previously as well? That isn't the symptom most people are seeing, I still have hopes that if you get a new case and/or drive it will work.

xnappo

I'm using a direct attached WD750GB drive, which didn't work with 2.4.9_3 either. No drive recognition, never asks to format. I might try getting an enclosure. I'm currently using this cable..

http://www.microbarn.com/details.aspx?rid=102027&source=froogle

BTW, I'm able to get into Navigator Diag through the remote but I can't get into the hardware diag from the box. If I press vol+- wait for mail light then Info, it reboots. If holding Select then info, it does nothing. I used to be able to get into hardware diag.

BTW, I'm able to get into Navigator Diag through the remote but I can't get into the hardware diag from the box. If I press vol+- wait for mail light then Info, it reboots. If holding Select then info, it does nothing. I used to be able to get into hardware diag.On the STB, hold both the Vol+ and Vol- buttons until the mail icon flashes, then press Ch+.

OK, I'm in. Forgot the combo I guess.

On the Host Component Info screen, I'm seeing what could be new driver versions...
Link image 6.29.45.2 21Mar08
OS 6.20.45.2 12Mar08
Aixom OCAP 1.2.147.2 21Mar08
PHAL3 Driver 1.3.37.1 14Mar08
fbdtcp 1.3.4.1 03May05
HAL Driver 1.3.37.1 14Mar08
PowerKEY Lib 3.9.7.23 06Mar08

Page 14
HW Model 0802
Ver 0012
Bldr Ver 121
OS Ver 1.01.10P9

Page 7
TWC REMOTE CONTROL 1 0 3
TWC DIAGS 1 0 4
TWC BOOTSTRAPPER 2 4 6 1



Are any of these new compared to others on SA8300HDC?

eSATA has nothing to do with this. The closed captioning implementation probably has a bug known as a buffer overflow. Trading in your box for a box running ODN or not using closed captioning at all are the only ways to solve this problem. However, the ODN boxes with ODN 2.4.9_3 currently fail with eSATA. Maybe the new version of ODN that just rolled out in some markets might fix this.

EDIT: Actually, what I wrote about eSATA having nothing to do with this may be garbage. :o I know that the closed captioning code crashes when mixed with HDTV and DVR. It is possible that some of the DVR code messed up by closed captioning also handles eSATA. However, the solutions I outlined still stand.


Yes! I do understand that. Your posts from some time ago are how I figured out how to avoid the reboots. Turn off closed captioning. I use closed captioning on a regular basis (my ears are old), and used it and an eSATA drive for a couple of years until my Passport was replaced with Navigator. After trying both ODN and MDN boxes, I stayed with the MDN box. When xenophonite reported that his ODN software had been updated, I checked and found my MDN software had also been updated (I am in KC also). I tried to get the reboot, using the method from your old post of including HD, recording, raw closed captioning, etc. So far, the new software has not rebooted! With that, I am very pleased!

The reason I am leaving the eSATA off for a while is because one of the old reboots lost all the shows on the eSATA, including the final of my wife's American Idol. I am going to wait a week or so to avoid living through that wrath again!

No matter what I set the Power-On Channel to, the SA8300HDC always starts up on channel 1. Is this a known bug?

Reboot the box. This happens to me with channel 0 if I do anything during the reboot. Doing nothing to the box or remote during the reboot fixes this.

This is probably a low-priority bug to fix because it only happens when I play around with the box while it boots.

Just for the benefit of others, it might be good to mention that you have an MDN system when debating comments made by an ODN user. Possibly, the functionality of these systems in this particular area may be different.

I do try to mention MDN/ODN when discussing most issues, but I recall having the same problems with failed series rerun recordings when I had an ODN box. Plus, my profile notes that I have an MDN box, so it seems a little overkill to mention MDN/ODN in every post. ;)

One thing I didn't mention earlier: When series reruns fail to record, there is no mention of the program at all in the Recording Log. Prior to the expected recording, rerun programs that should be scheduled to record are not marked Red in the Guide and do not appear in the list of Scheduled Recordings.

I'm using a direct attached WD750GB drive, which didn't work with 2.4.9_3 either. No drive recognition, never asks to format. I might try getting an enclosure. I'm currently using this cable..

http://www.microbarn.com/details.aspx?rid=102027&source=froogle


Do you supply power to the drive?

I'm using a direct attached WD750GB drive, which didn't work with 2.4.9_3 either. No drive recognition, never asks to format. I might try getting an enclosure. I'm currently using this cable..


have u tried formatting the WD drive to NTFS using Windows and then plugging it back into the STB to see if it will prompt you to reformat it? You lose anything on it, but that worked for me after Navigator came to Cincinnati. (Navigator 2.4.1-92, MDN)

Do you supply power to the drive?

I know you didn't mean to insult my intelligence. :) I've built my own PCs for 15+ years.

Also tried formatting on Windows, just initializing, etc. Drive works fine, but the STB won't recognize the drive. Any other suggestions? Would a particular enclosure have better luck than direct attached?

I have this drive: WD7500AAKS

I know you didn't mean to insult my intelligence. :) I've built my own PCs for 15+ years.

Also tried formatting on Windows, just initializing, etc. Drive works fine, but the STB won't recognize the drive. Any other suggestions? Would a particular enclosure have better luck than direct attached?

I have this drive: WD7500AAKS

No insult intended, just forgot to put in a smilie :) Have you checked the cable?

Would a particular enclosure have better luck than direct attached?

I have this drive: WD7500AAKS

I would think direct attach should work fine... However I suggest you consult the database in my sig. The drive you have is actually one of the most successful. For cases, the Antec MX-1 and Apricorn EZ-BUS-DTS are my recommendations.

xnappo

I've made an entry in your DB and I bought the WD drive specifically because of your report. But it looks like HDC users are still out of luck.

I've made an entry in your DB and I bought the WD drive specifically because of your report. But it looks like HDC users are still out of luck.

But the weird thing is that other HDC users are not seeing the same problem that you are - they are seeing the box crash when it spins down the drive, but not having trouble getting the drive recognized.

xnappo

But the weird thing is that other HDC users are not seeing the same problem that you are - they are seeing the box crash when it spins down the drive, but not having trouble getting the drive recognized.

xnappoAgreed. My external drive works perfectly ... until Navigator goes to sleep. Sigh. I doubt that xenophonite's problems are a definitive indication of a lack of progress.

I've made an entry in your DB and I bought the WD drive specifically because of your report. But it looks like HDC users are still out of luck.

Xeno - I doubt this will do it, but I see that Guitar Ed in the HD db got his Seagate drive working by turning off HD drive while it was connected to his STB.

-xler8


Took off the jumper for 3 Gb/S.

Box did not recognize hard drive. Hooked up hard drive to PC (using USB connection) and loaded the Seagate software. Your computer won't recognize hard drive unless you do this. Formatted the hard drive with PC to NTSF using Seagate software.

Box still did not recognize. Turned hard drive off with cable box on, got error code, then turned hard drive on. Box froze, turned box on and finally got the format hard drive icon. Followed instructions.

Rebooted cable box and now recording seems to work as it did before.

I'm not sure if I needed to format the hard drive via PC or if just turning hard drive off with box on did the trick. This seems to be a hit or miss process and was very aggravating.

1 TB for under $250 is a very good deal.

Good luck.

I tried the above and was able to get the box to freeze and then I reboot, still nothing. I also tried adding a jumper to change from 3Gbps to 1.5Gbps, still no go. I also have two eSATA/SATA cables and neither work on the STB.

At what point should the format screen come up, during OCAP screen, before/after Mystro screen.

I wonder if I should cancel all future recordings. I think someone mentioned that in the past.

At what point should the format screen come up, during OCAP screen, before/after Mystro screen.

I wonder if I should cancel all future recordings. I think someone mentioned that in the past.It should ask to format when you power on after the reboot. You shouldn't need to cancel your recordings.

Still no luck with the drive. I tried all jumper settings on the drive with no difference. Never asks to format. The drive works fine on laptop.

One good thing about the upgrade is that I'm now able to record anything I want via firewire and VLC player. Before the upgrade CapDVHS would work once in a while and I could not ever connect using VLC at all. Now I can record anything via VLC, including movie channels, but I may have to DVR it first.

Still no luck with the drive. I tried all jumper settings on the drive with no difference. Never asks to format. The drive works fine on laptop.



I suggest you go to your local Circuit City and buy a Antec MX-1 case and try it. If it doesn't work you can then easily return it.

xnappo

For those with MDN on the SA8300HD legacy boxes (and have 2.4.1-107), what are the changes from 2.4.1-92 to 2.4.1-107?

I suggest you go to your local Circuit City and buy a Antec MX-1 case and try it. If it doesn't work you can then easily return it.


I'll do that. Does it come with an eSATA/eSATA cable or do I need to get one with it?

I'll do that. Does it come with an eSATA/eSATA cable or do I need to get one with it?

It comes with a cable...

xnappo

Great news, it works great with latest Navigator! Made the scary trip to suburbia, survived dodging cars in a sea of parking lots and got the external case. Hooked it up, booted, asked to format and voila, I went from 96% allocated to 14%. Did some recording/playback and no skipping so far. Rewinding live TV also works fine. This is assuming new recordings go to the drive with the most unused space, which should be the case.

Any other testing I should try?

I'll add it to the DB.

Any other testing I should try?


Glad to hear it! However the big question is going to be what happens overnight. If the 'sleep bug' is still there, it will crash and you will have to reboot in the morning (someone correct me if I am wrong and it is not that predictable).

Weird that it didn't work with your direct-connect.. See your PM as well.

xnappo

Will report in the morning. And thanks much for the help. Odd that direct attached didn't work but an external case does.

Will report in the morning......

You will sleep tonight, right? :)

Glad to hear this seems to work!

Good news. Cable box did not lock up overnight due to old 'sleep bug'. Looks like eSATA is now working perfectly with the new Navigator release for HDC.

Our 8300HDC and 4250HDC both have the new update. The 3250HD will get the new update eventually. Probably on Thursday. I can't wait to try out a DVR Xpander since it supposedly works now.

Our 8300HDC and 4250HDC both have the new update. The 3250HD will get the new update eventually. Probably on Thursday. I can't wait to try out a DVR Xpander since it supposedly works now.

Where are you located? You might add it to your profile if you don't mind.

xnappo

And are you on version 2.4.10_11?

For those with MDN on the SA8300HD legacy boxes (and have 2.4.1-107), what are the changes from 2.4.1-92 to 2.4.1-107?

As xenophonite has said for the ODN update, the MDN update seems to be only bug fixes. I have not noticed ANY new features. But now closed captioning does not cause my box to re-boot.

I just hooked up my eSATA. I mentioned in previous posts that I had lost all the shows on the eSATA after one of the numerous re-boots, but it looked like the space was still being used. After reconnecting the eSATA today, I got a message that the eSATA had been turned off improperly and I would need to re-boot. I did and the missing shows are back! That gives me a much better feeling about the stability of the new version (2.4.1-107).

It looks to me like the latest versions of both the ODN and MDN are stable AND support eSATA!

Good news. Cable box did not lock up overnight due to old 'sleep bug'. Looks like eSATA is now working perfectly with the new Navigator release for HDC.

Thanks for the info. Makes me really look forward to this version.

Has Navigator added anymore recording options in it's latest update.Compared to Passport and Sara the Navigator recording options suck. SARA 1.89.17.1 Greensboro NC

No new features, just bug fixes in 2.4.10_11. What feature are you looking for?

I'd be glad there were no new features (yet). They have got to focus on killing bugs and improving stability in the near term. Once that phase is complete they can start working on additional features...which will of course mean new bugs.

Man, meanwhile DirecTV just launched it's OnDemand service. I can believe how far behind the times TWC is with this software. Navigator is approaching three years in the field and is just now starting to improve, yet still lacking so many "must have" features. Hey, at least the fixed eSATA!

Man, meanwhile DirecTV just launched it's OnDemand service. I can believe how far behind the times TWC is with this software. Navigator is approaching three years in the field and is just now starting to improve, yet still lacking so many "must have" features. Hey, at least the fixed eSATA!

Excuse me.I am by no means a TWC defender but they have had a extensive on demand service for at least 3 years.I also have caller ID on TV, STARTOVER,Quick Clips,SDV.We have 10 movie on demand services and a load of 30 other on demand services.plus we have HBO,Showtime and Cinemax on demand.Maybe Direct TV has more than this but this is more than I could ever watch. Sara 1.89.17.1 Greensboro NC

No new features, just bug fixes in 2.4.10_11. What feature are you looking for?

Well in Sara we have manual recording with all kinds of options.Sara also lets you record New.New and Repeats.On this day in this time slot.and or any day in this time slot.The manual recording lets you pick what days and time to record,plus u can record only weekdays,weekends,or pick any individual day or combo of days to record.Now tell me what options for recording is Navigator missing? SARA 1.89.17.1 Greensboro NC

Recording Failures Update: Well, it's been about 10 days now since I started leaving the box 'on' all the time and there have been no failed recordings during this period (excluding the failure to record repeat episodes, as previously discussed). :)

I'm going to assume that the 'bug' is still present, and just count this success as a 'workaround'. I'm not going to turn the box off overnight and risk more recording failures just to test the results. :o EDIT: Actually, I will check my other box when I get home to see if it has logged any failed recordings. It's been 'off' for the past few weeks.

In conjuntion with this issue, among others, I sent Navigator 'feedback' to TWC MidOhio on 06/30/08 via their website feeback form and checked the box requesting that TWC contact me. I've received no response. :rolleyes:

Looks like ODN 2.4.10-11 is spreading around. Some people in the San Diego TWC unit have reported seeing it - and they like it.

Now we MDN people are waiting for our new version (2.4.1-107) to come around as well.

I'd be glad there were no new features (yet). They have got to focus on killing bugs and improving stability in the near term. Once that phase is complete they can start working on additional features...which will of course mean new bugs.

I agree,

Getting the bugs out and having a stable platform is the best thing to do. Than apply new features.

I heard that the Sara platforms, because of people's frustration with Navigator, will not be changed until next year at the earliest. TWC wants to improve the PR image with this new guide first, and we still have a LONG, LONG way to go for that. Things are just starting to reach acceptable terms with Navigator. That doesn't mean people like it yet. Right now it's just ok. TWC needs to get this software up to or better than the Passport versions that it replaced.

I think one of the reasons why things take longer than a Dish, is because satellite doesn't have all of the outside and inside wiring that TWC has. You also don't have 40 different boxes all these different channel numbers and configurations. I believe that the Dish boxes are more universal and are easier to apply from division to division. With the technology as it is today, it would be interesting how many people CHOOSE a provider because of the on-screen guide. The problem is that Navigator is so far far away from that goal, that one might as well speak in light-years.

Well, maybe not THAT long. But based on technology expectations and the experiences of this forum, when do you think that TWC communities will actually begin to "like" Navigator on a national average?

Jack

Looks like ODN 2.4.10-11 is spreading around. Some people in the San Diego TWC unit have reported seeing it - and they like it.

Now we MDN people are waiting for our new version (2.4.1-107) to come around as well.

Update: I came home and checked my box. I now have 2.4.1-107!

I had made this change but for some reason when I uncheck all but 1080i the select C to save it only saves for the session. After I power it (on) the next day the selections for all resolutions are again checked. Has anyone else seen this inability to save the resolution settings?

Well, maybe not THAT long. But based on technology expectations and the experiences of this forum, when do you think that TWC communities will actually begin to "like" Navigator on a national average?


First time DVR users won't even know that there's anything wrong with Navigator so it will be more readily accepted in those circles.

Navigator is a small part of the much larger problems with TWC. I don't think TWC will ever get to the point where all their services are anything but "just adequate" and they are serious competition to other major providers again. They have too many balls in the air and nobody to catch them. I wouldn't expect Navigator to fix many of it's current annoyances in the next two years. It took that long for minor Passport updates to rollout and they didn't have to code them.

TWC will coast along content to rake in the cash from everyone who doesn't have a viable alternative and Navigator development will do the same.

I had made this change but for some reason when I uncheck all but 1080i the select C to save it only saves for the session. After I power it (on) the next day the selections for all resolutions are again checked. Has anyone else seen this inability to save the resolution settings?

If you are using HDMI, this might explain why. A television with HDMI generally has a better scaler than the one in the cable box, and that scaler can use the caracteristics of the television to its advantage. In this case, it is best for the cable box to pass the decompressed image through the HDMI connection without converting the format of the outgoing decompressed video. Therefore, when using HDMI, the box enables all resolutions the TV is able to accept. However, the box will convert formats the television cannot accept into formats the television finds acceptable.

However, I do not use HDMI (my HD monitor does not have an HDMI port, but component video only), so my advice is a guess here.

If no HDMI connection is set up, you may have run upon a bug.

Between HDMI problems, crappy navigator, lost recordings, channels that are available in high-def but not offered by TWC, I'm through with it all. Going back to Directtv.

Recording Failures Update:
EDIT 07/10/08: Actually, I will check my other box when I get home to see if it has logged any failed recordings. It's been 'off' for the past few weeks.

Ok, I checked the other box, and there have been multiple failed series recordings. The error message in the Recording Log was still the same for each: "Set Top Unable to Record Program."

To summarize: Both boxes are 8300HD with MDN. Over the past couple of weeks, the box that has been 'on' all the time has had no recording failures, while the box that has been 'off' most of the time has had several recording failures.

Strangely, when I canceled the programs from the Series Manager so I could see if setting up new series recordings might help, the messages in the Recording Log changed from the message noted above to "Program not recorded due to canceled by a user." That's stupid. How is the Recording Log supposed to give Tech Support useful messages after a recording failure when the messages can simply change from what actually happened to something different just because a series recording gets canceled after the failure(s) occurs?? :(

Strangely, when I canceled the programs from the Series Manager so I could see if setting up new series recordings might help, the messages in the Recording Log changed from the message noted above to "Program not recorded due to canceled by a user." That's stupid. How is the Recording Log supposed to give Tech Support useful messages after a recording failure when the messages can simply change from what actually happened to something different just because a series recording gets canceled after the failure(s) occurs?? :(If you canceled your series recordings, I believe you you should have gotten those messages. When you cancel the series, it goes through and deletes the associated scheduled recordings.

Between HDMI problems, crappy navigator, lost recordings, channels that are available in high-def but not offered by TWC, I'm through with it all. Going back to DirecTV.

I hear ya! But at least my cable never goes out. Even my RoadRunner and DigitalPhone almost never go out anymore.

My friends have DirecTV and my folks have Dish, and they often lost their signal intermittently when there's storms. I'm not willing to put up with that. DirecTV advertises that their signal is good 99.7% of the time. Well, that sounds good until you realize that the 0.3% downtime seems to always occur in PrimeTime during my favorite shows!!

I'm impressed with the Dish DVR, and that you can have it connected to both satellite and antenna (for a 3rd tuner and for when there's storms), but they still don't even offer HD Locals here in Columbus.

I've looked into AT&T uVerse, but based on comments in the uVerse forums, they have even farther to go to have a fully reliable and stable system than does TWC with Navigator. I've also considered WOWcable, which uses SARA, but in order to get the same level of services as I have with TWC I'd end up paying at least $20 more per mos.

My 8300HD connected via HDMI to my Philips LCD has been just as stable as it was on Passport. I was expecting problems with Navigator and was prepared to switch to component cables, but so far so good.

Navigator will get better. It has to! They've made considerable progress since 2006, but they've still got a long way to go. At least leaving my box on all the time has prevented more failed recordings.

I spoke with a TWC phone rep yesterday, and she advised that they plan provide several new HD channels in the Columbus area by late July / early August. Fingers Crossed!

If you canceled your series recordings, I believe you you should have gotten those messages. When you cancel the series, it goes through and deletes the associated scheduled recordings.

This was after the fact. I just canceled the series recordings yesterday, which would cancel future programs. However, Navigator went back and changed the Recording Log messages that were already there on past failed recordings.

(For example: July 1st, NBC Nightly News, Log message was "Set top unable to record program". On July 10th, I canceled the series recordings for NBC Nightly News, and when I checked the log again, the July 1st episode had a new Log message that said "Program Not Recorded because canceled by a user." The changing of the message on a past failure defeats the purpose of alerting Tech Support folks from seeing the real reason why a recording failed.)

Rob:

I've left my SA8300HD on 24/7 for a few weeks now, to ensure I don't miss any recordings.

Can you check to see what version you have on your two DVRs...(I just tune to channel 998, where the version will be displayed).

It would be helpful if you can confirm over the next few days/week whether you are still getting failed recordings on the box that you leave turned off, even if it has the new MDN release 2.4.1-107. I'd like to start turning mine off, but don't want to start losing recordings again.

Rob:

I've left my SA8300HD on 24/7 for a few weeks now, to ensure I don't miss any recordings.

Can you check to see what version you have on your two DVRs...(I just tune to channel 998, where the version will be displayed).

It would be helpful if you can confirm over the next few days/week whether you are still getting failed recordings on the box that you leave turned off, even if it has the new MDN release 2.4.1-107. I'd like to start turning mine off, but don't want to start losing recordings again.

As of last night, I still have 2.4.1-92 on both boxes. For now, I'm leaving my main box on, and my excersise room box off. I'll keep posting periodic updates on their recording performance.

From what I've read about DVR energy usage, they pretty much suck down the same amount of juice whether they are on or off. So, as long as leaving it on avoids the recording bug, I don't have any issue with leaving it on. Sometimes, tho, leaving it on messes up the HDMI connection and I just get a black screen when I turn on the TV, but if I turn off the box and TV for a few seconds, they are working fine together again when I turn them back on.

At last! My first missed recording!

I didn't record "My Boys" last night because the guide had lost all the channel info for TBS. I had to reboot to get the channel to repopulate.

Rebooting has had an unexpected side effect. For some reason my guide data is intact for the week. Either it's no longer purged when powered off or it's being loaded in the background. I can see all the way to next Thursday and the guide didn't have to load data when I checked it.

I can't see any changes in the software list.

"My Boys" is one of our favorite shows...good to hear we're not the only ones watching it, I keep worrying it's got a small audience and is going to get cancelled - now I know there are at least two households watching! :-)

Thanks for the update, Rob, I had misunderstood and thought you were on the new software. Someone who's got the new release said in another forum that he hasn't been losing recordings, so maybe the update will resolve the issue. If what you said about the power usage is true, then maybe I just won't worry about it, however.

Thanks for the update, Rob, I had misunderstood and thought you were on the new software. Someone who's got the new release said in another forum that he hasn't been losing recordings, so maybe the update will resolve the issue. If what you said about the power usage is true, then maybe I just won't worry about it, however.

I, too, hope the new update fixes the problem! Sometimes, it's hard to remember not to turn it off. I've caught myself a few times turning it off when going to bed (then turning it back on).

I don't remember where I've read about the power use issue before, but I found site that has info on a test they did with a TiVo Series2 and a DirecTV box:
http://www.greenischeap.com/category/energy-analysis/
"Most people don't turn off their DVR, and that's fine because it only reduces power usage by 1 watt! Although the lights go out on the front of the box, the "computer" is still running and hard drive spinning. So you won't save any real power unless you unplug it."

With Navigator, I think the 'sleep mode' power saving feature that spins down the hard drive after a period of non-use works whether the box is on or off.

With Navigator, I think the 'sleep mode' power saving feature that spins down the hard drive after a period of non-use works whether the box is on or off.

It does. If the box loses the HDMI connection (when you switch TV inputs for example) it will go to sleep even though it's still switched on.

It does. If the box loses the HDMI connection (when you switch TV inputs for example) it will go to sleep even though it's still switched on.
What if you use component cables instead - will that allow the box to stay on?

"My Boys" is one of our favorite shows...good to hear we're not the only ones watching it, I keep worrying it's got a small audience and is going to get cancelled - now I know there are at least two households watching! :-)

Thanks for the update, Rob, I had misunderstood and thought you were on the new software. Someone who's got the new release said in another forum that he hasn't been losing recordings, so maybe the update will resolve the issue. If what you said about the power usage is true, then maybe I just won't worry about it, however.
Add 2 more viewers of "My Boys". My wife & I love the show.

Add 2 more viewers of "My Boys". My wife & I love the show.

Woo-hoo! Six of us now...it's not just a fan base, it's a broad-based cultural movement! ;-)

What if you use component cables instead - will that allow the box to stay on?

I don't see why not. There's no handshake involved with component.

Another Navigator bug I haven't seen mentioned here yet is how a recording apparently starts at exactly the hour point, or shortly thereafter. If a show starts "right on time", I never get the first few seconds. Passport, of course, would start the recording a few seconds, maybe up to half a minute, before the hour mark so the machine could "ramp up" and be running when the hour opened. You never missed the beginning of your show.

Again, wouldn't this be a ridiculously easy bug to fix? Didn't anybody even notice that during beta testing? Oh, I forgot, there wasn't any beta test period with Navigator before they dumped it on an unsuspecting public. Apparently. :rolleyes:

Another Navigator bug I haven't seen mentioned here yet is how a recording apparently starts at exactly the hour point, or shortly thereafter. If a show starts "right on time", I never get the first few seconds. Passport, of course, would start the recording a few seconds, maybe up to half a minute, before the hour mark so the machine could "ramp up" and be running when the hour opened. You never missed the beginning of your show.

Again, wouldn't this be a ridiculously easy bug to fix? Didn't anybody even notice that during beta testing? Oh, I forgot, there wasn't any beta test period with Navigator before they dumped it on an unsuspecting public. Apparently. :rolleyes:

Even SARA does this on occasion, usually cuts off the end of shows or the preview of the next weeks show. I suggected that TWC have an option for a "buffer" before and after the show. The only time this would conflict is if both tuners are in use. I concur here, this is a simple fix.

Passport, of course, would start the recording a few seconds, maybe up to half a minute, before the hour mark so the machine could "ramp up" and be running when the hour opened. You never missed the beginning of your show.


Really? That seems like a very bad idea. I am often using both tuners, and that would annoy me(if I were watching live, it would need to take over the tuner, or if it was recording another channel, it would have to switch early). Or is Passport smart enough to only do it when it knows it is okay?

xnappo

Really? That seems like a very bad idea. I am often using both tuners, and that would annoy me(if I were watching live, it would need to take over the tuner, or if it was recording another channel, it would have to switch early). Or is Passport smart enough to only do it when it knows it is okay?

xnappo

I never got a conflict message, as when both tuners were occupied. It just always seemed to start a few seconds early (perhaps in rare cases it ended a previous program a few seconds early....? never noticed that either). Passport was a pretty "smart" program in terms of efficiency of tuner use and conflict avoidance. But Navigator is consistently late in terms of recording start, sometimes up to half a minute I've noticed when I've just happened to have already been watching the previous program on that same channel. Very annoying, and again, an easy bug to fix if somebody were just paying attention. Shouldn't still be in there. I've often wondered if they actually paid the management team for the Mystro/Navigator development project at TWC or if, you know, they were just volunteer positions. Or maybe staffed by interns to save overhead.

There have been rumors of some of these bugs being fixed in a new version of Navigator being pushed in some markets (Kansas City is one), at least for the version being run on HDC boxes. But nobody has yet specifically documented which particular bugs have definitely, absolutely been addressed. That'd be nice.

But nobody has yet specifically documented which particular bugs have definitely, absolutely been addressed. That'd be nice.

Agreed. I have mentioned before that someone needs to step up and do a 'Navigator Tips and Tricks' thread, using vegggas/DD's template:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=471859

I would volunteer, but I don't have Navigator (yet).

xnappo

I got Navigator last week. One good thing is that many "unknown" recordings showed up in my list that did NOT show up when I had Passport. I always thought my 480G of storage wasn't being fully used, and it turns out that these unknown recordings freed up half the space when removed. Also, I have not had any HDCP issues since going to Navigator, either.

Another Navigator bug I haven't seen mentioned here yet is how a recording apparently starts at exactly the hour point, or shortly thereafter. If a show starts "right on time", I never get the first few seconds. Passport, of course, would start the recording a few seconds, maybe up to half a minute, before the hour mark so the machine could "ramp up" and be running when the hour opened. You never missed the beginning of your show.

Again, wouldn't this be a ridiculously easy bug to fix? Didn't anybody even notice that during beta testing? Oh, I forgot, there wasn't any beta test period with Navigator before they dumped it on an unsuspecting public. Apparently. :rolleyes:

I do not think that this is a bug. However, a buffer before and after a show is programmable. Edit the series recording (or recording itself if this recording is a one-time event) for the show you want to record and tell it to start early or end late if you want a buffer before or after the show.

However, changing the default buffer sizes from zero to some amount would be a good thing to add to the feature list.

I do not think that this is a bug. However, a buffer before and after a show is programmable. Edit the series recording (or recording itself if this recording is a one-time event) for the show you want to record and tell it to start early or end late if you want a buffer before or after the show.

Granted, but that's a time-consuming work-around that you shouldn't have to do. Like forcing yourself to learn, when rewinding, to hit REW, then PAUSE, then PLAY in order to "work around" the faulty REW button. Or hitting the "instant replay/go back" button 3 times to go back as far as one press used to. And it could lead to some conflicts that you would have to manually manage when recording two things that start at the same time. Passport just managed it nicely all by itself, and you never missed the start of a program.

However, changing the default buffer sizes from zero to some amount would be a good thing to add to the feature list.

Better would be to simply start the recording a few seconds before the top of the hour, or half-hour, so that the machine was up and running when the program begins, like Passport did. If that makes you miss the last 10 seconds of the previous recording from time to time, that's no great loss since even with shows that run all the way to the top of the hour with content, there's still a network or production company logo for the last few seconds. Missing the start of a program, however, is often a great loss, as I've repeatedly discovered since I got 'gatored.

Granted, but that's a time-consuming work-around that you shouldn't have to do. Like forcing yourself to learn, when rewinding, to hit REW, then PAUSE, then PLAY in order to "work around" the faulty REW button. Or hitting the "instant replay/go back" button 3 times to go back as far as one press used to. And it could lead to some conflicts that you would have to manually manage when recording two things that start at the same time. Passport just managed it nicely all by itself, and you never missed the start of a program.



Better would be to simply start the recording a few seconds before the top of the hour, or half-hour, so that the machine was up and running when the program begins, like Passport did. If that makes you miss the last 10 seconds of the previous recording from time to time, that's no great loss since even with shows that run all the way to the top of the hour with content, there's still a network or production company logo for the last few seconds. Missing the start of a program, however, is often a great loss, as I've repeatedly discovered since I got 'gatored.
Arch:

Not so sure about that. I get caught without an ending to many shows that run over the time slot shown in the IPG. The networks like playing games with DVR users and are coming up with more clever ways to make us lose endings & beginnings. If such a feature were to be added to add a few seconds to the beginning, it should only be used if one of the tuners is available. I'm afraid adding something like this will cause even more programming problems & bugs. There' having enough trouble just getting the software to work. They need to offer all the program series choices that are currently available on SARA and that I understand were also on Passport.

Arch:

Not so sure about that. I get caught without an ending to many shows that run over the time slot shown in the IPG. The networks like playing games with DVR users and are coming up with more clever ways to make us lose endings & beginnings. If such a feature were to be added to add a few seconds to the beginning, it should only be used if one of the tuners is available. I'm afraid adding something like this will cause even more programming problems & bugs. There' having enough trouble just getting the software to work. They need to offer all the program series choices that are currently available on SARA and that I understand were also on Passport.

The program guide should have all those little tricks accounted for since the networks are required to submit their "real" programing time information so that the local affiliates can insert their own ads, PSA's, etc. I never missed the beginning or end of a program I had scheduled because the Passport IPG was always correct. And, as I said before, the way Passport worked was it simply started the recording a few seconds before the exact start of the hour. It worked perfectly. I never missed either the beginning nor end of any program I wanted to see that I can recall. It's thus possible to do it properly; Navigator doesn't.

I agree that Passport was much better at starting recordings a little early and ending a little late whenever possible. And, it was smart enough to know that it could only do this when there were not multiple back-to-back recordings.

I wouldn't categorize what Navigator does as a bug, but rather a software programming failure. It also appears that Navigator's internal clock is off (behind) by a couple of seconds. Whenever possible, I try to remember to add a minute to the start and end times of my recordings, depending on the program.

It does seem that it would be quite easy for Navigator programmers to build in a time padding of 10-30 seconds at the beginning and end of each recording to ensure that nothing is missed. And, it also seems to me to be it would be a rather simple (BASIC??) sub-routine that the padding would not be permitted when both tuners are needed to record other programs before or afterward.

Where is everyone today? :confused:

All of a sudden, nobody is having any Navigator issues??? :eek:

I agree that Passport was much better at starting recordings a little early and ending a little late whenever possible. And, it was smart enough to know that it could only do this when there were not multiple back-to-back recordings.

I wouldn't categorize what Navigator does as a bug, but rather a software programming failure. It also appears that Navigator's internal clock is off (behind) by a couple of seconds. Whenever possible, I try to remember to add a minute to the start and end times of my recordings, depending on the program.

It does seem that it would be quite easy for Navigator programmers to build in a time padding of 10-30 seconds at the beginning and end of each recording to ensure that nothing is missed. And, it also seems to me to be it would be a rather simple (BASIC??) sub-routine that the padding would not be permitted when both tuners are needed to record other programs before or afterward.

Yes,

A 30-second before program begins time buffer would be great for Navigator. Sometimes my shows that I DVR start on time, other times early, other times about 30 seconds late. To work around this, you can select, "Record Show With Options" than go to "Adjust Start Time" to one minute early. This helps for any shows whose station management is not synchronized with Navigator's IPG. The worst are my syndicated stations and TV Land, which seems to correct this by doing the above one minute early steps. I also DVR The Price is Right Each Day at 10AM CST with no need for time modifications and it starts recording about 20 seconds early.

Is this really a Navigator issue, or an individual station issue? I do remember that Passport would start recording about 45 seconds to a minute before the scheduled time of a program.

You guys should add an early start recording time buffer to my Navigator suggestions list thread elsewhere in this forum!

Jack

I really haven't noticed missing any of the beginnings of my recordings using Navigator. I'm not doing anything special to adjust recording times, and this hasn't been any issue for me.

I really haven't noticed missing any of the beginnings of my recordings using Navigator. I'm not doing anything special to adjust recording times, and this hasn't been any issue for me.

As you said, you just haven't noticed; it's there. Another one some folks don't believe is there is how the 15 minute jump ahead or back feature (holding down the FF or REW button for a couple of seconds) goes away when you hook up an expansion drive - that's an odd little bug, and one they may never address since the eSATA port is not "officially" supported, or even acknowledged for that matter, by TWC. We sure miss it, however, since it takes forever to move through large chunks of a program using the painfully slow 3x speed, the maximum for Navigator. Have I mentioned the program needs a "forth gear"...?

As you said, you just haven't noticed; it's there. Another one some folks don't believe is there is how the 15 minute jump ahead or back feature (holding down the FF or REW button for a couple of seconds) goes away when you hook up an expansion drive - that's an odd little bug, and one they may never address since the eSATA port is not "officially" supported, or even acknowledged for that matter, by TWC. We sure miss it, however, since it takes forever to move through large chunks of a program using the painfully slow 3x speed, the maximum for Navigator. Have I mentioned the program needs a "forth gear"...?

Have you noticed that the 15-minute jump feature works differently depending on whether you are viewing a live program or a previously recorded program? When viewing live TV, the jump feature will move ahead or backward in 15-min increments. But, when viewing recorded programs, the jump will take you to the next 15-minute mark on the clock like Passport did (ie: from 12:09 back back to 12:00 or from 3:21 fwd to 3:30). Personally, I prefer the Passport method, but it's odd that Navigator (MDN) appears to work differently depending on how you are viewing a program. It would be better if it worked the other way around, since watching live TV is when I usually want to jump back to the beginning of the current program or jump forward to the start of the next program, rather than jumping beyond those points and then having to forward or reverse thru a few minutes to get where you really want to be.

And, yes, it's worth repeating: Navigator needs a '4th gear' (or at least a 50% speed bump to each of the current 3 gears)!

As you said, you just haven't noticed; it's there. Another one some folks don't believe is there is how the 15 minute jump ahead or back feature (holding down the FF or REW button for a couple of seconds) goes away when you hook up an expansion drive - that's an odd little bug, and one they may never address since the eSATA port is not "officially" supported, or even acknowledged for that matter, by TWC. We sure miss it, however, since it takes forever to move through large chunks of a program using the painfully slow 3x speed, the maximum for Navigator. Have I mentioned the program needs a "forth gear"...?

My point was that from an experience point of view (which is what matters to me, of course) it has not been noticed and is not an issue (happily) for us. I expect the impact of this issue varies significantly by customer...

The 15 minute FF/RW jump works fine on Navigator when viewing recorded material w/an external eSata drive. I have an Apricorn 500 GB now (and have also used a WD 500 GB and Cavalry 500 GB drives) w/the SA8300HD, and the 15 minute jump works w/all of them when viewing recorded material. Just used it this morning, as a matter of fact...

Have you noticed that the 15-minute jump feature works differently depending on whether you are viewing a live program or a previously recorded program? When viewing live TV, the jump feature will move ahead or backward in 15-min increments. But, when viewing recorded programs, the jump will take you to the next 15-minute mark on the clock like Passport did (ie: from 12:09 back back to 12:00 or from 3:21 fwd to 3:30). Personally, I prefer the Passport method, but it's odd that Navigator (MDN) appears to work differently depending on how you are viewing a program. It would be better if it worked the other way around, since watching live TV is when I usually want to jump back to the beginning of the current program or jump forward to the start of the next program, rather than jumping beyond those points and then having to forward or reverse thru a few minutes to get where you really want to be.

And, yes, it's worth repeating: Navigator needs a '4th gear' (or at least a 50% speed bump to each of the current 3 gears)!

Good catch on the 15m FF/RW differences.

As for speed, I'd prefer that they add a 4x speed, but like the current speed levels of 1x, 2x, and 3x.

What I really hate about the FF/RW 15 minute jump in the current implementation is:

- Have to hold down the FF/RW button the entire time...if you lose positive contact w/the button you lose the jump, and I just don't like having to sit there pressing the button. The Passport method was much better for me - just start FF/RW and then tap the right and left direction arrows. They can keep the "press and hold" approach for those who like it, I just want them to add the Passport method as another option to access that feature.

- Have to wait for the "pauses" after each jump where sound and picture go back to normal - I want to control if I stop and see what's at each 15 minute increment, I don't like being forced to wait between each jump, and the sudden "pop" of sound that goes along with it is annoying, particularly when I'm trying to get through a good chunk of a show to a certain spot.

I really haven't noticed missing any of the beginnings of my recordings using Navigator. I'm not doing anything special to adjust recording times, and this hasn't been any issue for me.

To 'notice' this 'problem', it's going to depend on the program. Some programs will start immediately on the hour or half-hour, while others will start with opening credits first. It's usually only when the actual program itself starts immediately that you would notice that Navigator had started recording a few seconds late.

Did Passport offer 4x speed, or just 3x speed? I can't remember.

Jack

I can confirm that my SARA version currently does.

On a side note, I heard that Navigator has been put on hold here indefinitely due to the problems it's had basically everywhere it's been deployed. Word is we will still get it, but no one will confirm when or in what state.

That's interesting.

I'd say Navigator is pretty much past the "horrible" stage at this point, and appears to be stable/reliable. I haven't had any reboots or lock-ups recently, shows are recording as scheduled, external eSata drive is integrated and working w/out issue, Guide appears to be populating with info much more smoothly and not stalling w/out data, etc.

There are some missing features and functionality/UI changes I'd like to see, but I'm past the point when I have to worry about Navigator generally screwing things up.

If someone just started DVR service and had never seen Passport (or Tivo ;-) ), I think they'd be just fine w/the current version.

That's interesting.

I'd say Navigator is pretty much past the "horrible" stage at this point, and appears to be stable/reliable. I haven't had any reboots or lock-ups recently, shows are recording as scheduled, external eSata drive is integrated and working w/out issue, Guide appears to be populating with info much more smoothly and not stalling w/out data, etc.

There are some missing features and functionality/UI changes I'd like to see, but I'm past the point when I have to worry about Navigator generally screwing things up.

If someone just started DVR service and had never seen Passport (or Tivo ;-) ), I think they'd be just fine w/the current version.

End-user experience with Navigator is far from universally stable and problem-free. How Navigator performs is so very, very dependent on which model STB the user has; what version of Navigator it's running; How good the cables, connections, and signal strength are to the STB; etc,...

Did Passport offer 4x speed, or just 3x speed? I can't remember.

Jack

It's ridiculous that I had a Passport DVR for 5 years and already can't recall with 100% certainty. I'm pretty sure it was just 3x. There was no 1x on Passport that is as slow as 1x on Navigator. I do remember clearly only having to press FFWD 2x to get a decent speed, which is essentially the speed that 3x gets to with Navigator. The 3x speed on Passport was at least twice as fast as the 3x speed on Navigator.

The 15 minute FF/RW jump works fine on Navigator when viewing recorded material w/an external eSata drive. I have an Apricorn 500 GB now (and have also used a WD 500 GB and Cavalry 500 GB drives) w/the SA8300HD, and the 15 minute jump works w/all of them when viewing recorded material. Just used it this morning, as a matter of fact...

Mine doesn't work at all, not with "live" material; not with recorded material. For awhile, before it died a Navigator-induced death, I had a second 8300 without an expansion drive and the 15 minute jump worked fine. It has never worked on the DVR w/expansion drive from the moment they pushed Navigator onto it. To have some people report that it does work for them, when they have the same version of Navigator and the same hardware (we are talking about HD boxes here and not HDC, right??) is strange indeed. And BTW, I'm using the same WD 500 GB drive w/ Apricorn enclosure. :confused:

Passport had a forth gear which was at least twice as fast as the top "third gear" of Navigator.

To have some people report that it does work for them, when they have the same version of Navigator and the same hardware (we are talking about HD boxes here and not HDC, right??) is strange indeed.So far, the new 2.4.10_11 version Navigator is working much better for me on the 8300HDC box. The problems with the HDMI and eSATA ports seem to be fixed, and I have not had any of the unexplained recording failures that occurred previously, and FF 'jump' function works fine.

I installed a 500GB Apricorn DVR Xpander two days ago and it went flawlessly, recognizing and formatting the drive on the first boot, and my storage level went down to 8%. Recordings have all happened without error messages or 'sleep mode' problems with the expansion drive so far. I reconnected my TV with the HDMI cable and have not experienced the same resolution switching as I did previously when exiting the guide, or the annoying 'sticking' of the screen image in the upper right corner. I don't know about the Firewire or USB ports, but this firmware seems to do the job on those previous problems and seems stable. Now if they can just improve the feature set of the guide....

TT
La Jolla, CA
SA8300HDC - TWC Navigator 2.4.10_11

What markets are now on 2.4.10_11?

KC, San Diego, possibly NYC? Others?

I have my STB connected to my TV with HDMI. I have noticed that when I am viewing a HD channel, the LED display shows 1080i but there is not HDTV indicator. On an earlier version of the box, it used to show both indicators:1080i and HDTV.

Is my box working correctly?

Thanks in advance

So far, the new 2.4.10_11 version Navigator is working much better for me on the 8300HDC box. The problems with the HDMI and eSATA ports seem to be fixed, and I have not had any of the unexplained recording failures that occurred previously, and FF 'jump' function works fine.


Right. The 15 minute jump feature apparently works with the HDC boxes and the version of Navigator installed on them; not the "legacy" HD boxes, like I have.

What markets are now on 2.4.10_11?

KC, San Diego, possibly NYC? Others?

Not in NYC yet.
I want my eSata back... :)

I just went back with Time Warner this week. I have the Explorer8240HDC receiver with Navigator software..On the Free Video On Demand Channels I get an error 106 or error 101 message..Just wondering what to do about it..Thanks for any help

I have my STB connected to my TV with HDMI. I have noticed that when I am viewing a HD channel, the LED display shows 1080i but there is not HDTV indicator. On an earlier version of the box, it used to show both indicators:1080i and HDTV.

Is my box working correctly?

Thanks in advance

Unfortunately, this is an omission in the OCAP specification itself. On the front panel extension for OCAP 1.0, there is no way for a program written in OCAP to light the HDTV LED without complicating the program quite a bit because that LED is nonstandard. This LED was not included in the OCAP spec because Motorola did not generally include one in its cable boxes. I also could not find anything to tell the box which resolution LED should be lit, either. It seems that the resolution LEDs are under the control of one of these possibilities: the AXIOM OCAP middleware that translates OCAP code to native machine code, the PowerTV OS that AXIOM runs on top of, or the hardware that outputs the video to the TV. The current OCAP specification only requires a power LED, a recording LED, four seven-segment LEDs, a colon in between the middle LEDs, a message LED, and an RF Bypass LED if the box supports RF bypass. These LEDs can be controlled by software. Others might be defined, but they will not have standardized names, requiring that the program to check to see if the LED is present before trying to light it. Trying to light an LED without checking to see if the LED is present causes an error.

This is one area of the OCAP spec I really wish was redone. If I had specified this spec, I would allow two modes: a legacy mode for old OCAP devices with four seven-segment displays, a colon, a message LED, and a recording LED; and a flex mode that would mandate at least five dot-matrix character displays, a message light, and a recording LED. The reason for at least five dot matrix characters is that a colon takes one character up. If a message is sent that is too long for the display, display it like a stock ticker.

What markets are now on 2.4.10_11?

KC, San Diego, possibly NYC? Others?

San Diego is definitely on 2.4.10_11.

Mine doesn't work at all, not with "live" material; not with recorded material. For awhile, before it died a Navigator-induced death, I had a second 8300 without an expansion drive and the 15 minute jump worked fine. It has never worked on the DVR w/expansion drive from the moment they pushed Navigator onto it. To have some people report that it does work for them, when they have the same version of Navigator and the same hardware (we are talking about HD boxes here and not HDC, right??) is strange indeed. And BTW, I'm using the same WD 500 GB drive w/ Apricorn enclosure. :confused:


I was told that I have an "HD" box by a TWC support person a couple of weeks ago when I was on the phone w/them, but I guess they could have made a mistake. What do I need to check to confirm?

I was told that I have an "HD" box by a TWC support person a couple of weeks ago when I was on the phone w/them, but I guess they could have made a mistake. What do I need to check to confirm?They are different models of the 8300 High Def DVR. 8300HD is the older one and 8300HDC has a cable card and some more memory. They each run different versions of the Navigator software. The unit/manual, etc. should list the model. /Dan

They are different models of the 8300 High Def DVR. 8300HD is the older one and 8300HDC has a cable card and some more memory. They each run different versions of the Navigator software. The unit/manual, etc. should list the model. /DanThe model number is on the front panel. If it ends in "HD" or "HDC" it is the HD model.

Then I definitely have the "HD" version...no cable card, front says "SA8300HD."

In that case I can confirm that the 15 minute jump works fine w/the most recent version of Navigator on the HD box (MDN 2.4.1-107). I used it w/three different eSata drives, Cavalry, WD My DVR Expander, and Apricorn DVR Xpander (the one I ended up keeping). Frankly, as far as I remember the 15 minute jump was working fine w/the external drives before the 2.4.1-107 update as well...

Hope that clears things up.

Time Warner Cable Still Wrestling With Set-Top Guide Bugs
MSO’s Navigator Software Reported to Cause Customer Issues In Ohio
By Todd Spangler -- Multichannel News, 7/8/2008 4:30:00 PM

Time Warner Cable’s homegrown interactive program guide continues to cause grief for some customers, with problems reported in the Dayton, Ohio area after the MSO upgraded the guide there over the last two months.

The operator has been gradually rolling out the Digital Navigator guide to replace the Aptiv Passport IPG (now owned by Macrovision).

Complaints first surfaced last year in the three test markets for the software: Lincoln, Neb., Milwaukee and Kansas City, Mo. Issues with Digital Navigator reported at the time included spontaneously rebooting set-top boxes and loss of channels.

Some problems apparently are still lingering. According to a July 4 Dayton Daily News article, local Time Warner Cable customers have complained that the new guide is slower to change channels and has introduced other errors, such as delivering some channels only in Spanish.

Time Warner Cable spokesman Justin Venech, in an e-mailed statement, said: “When new technology is being implemented, it is not uncommon that some issues arise and need to be worked out. We continue rollout and expect to have these issues resolved in the coming months. We are confident our customers will find that the new services made available, as a result of this new guide, enhance their overall experience."

Venech did not provide details on how widespread the issues are, or whether the problems affect only specific models of set-top boxes.

Hey Ohio, don't worry about it. According to Mr. Venech everything will be worked out in the coming months! Aren't the "new technology" and " it'll be fixed soon" lines the same thing other Navigator divisions were told dating back two year now?


Anyway, just though you all would be interested in the latest Navigator article.

I just went back with Time Warner this week. I have the Explorer8240HDC receiver with Navigator software..On the Free Video On Demand Channels I get an error 106 or error 101 message..Just wondering what to do about it..Thanks for any help

Tim,

Is the problem still there today? If so, have you tried rebooting your box?

If the issue hasn't resolved itself within a day or so, call TWC and give them those code numbers for the errors regarding your Free On Demand channels. Most likely, they will reboot the box there and send someone out to check the head end. Sometimes my VOD does the same thing, but it's resolved in a couple of hours without calling TWC or rebooting.

Jack

So far, the new 2.4.10_11 version Navigator is working much better for me on the 8300HDC box. The problems with the HDMI and eSATA ports seem to be fixed, and I have not had any of the unexplained recording failures that occurred previously, and FF 'jump' function works fine.

TT
La Jolla, CA
SA8300HDC - TWC Navigator 2.4.10_11

+1 with the 8300 HD and Navigator version 2.4.1-107. I'm not using HDMI, but eSATA seems fine now and no re-boots. I have had closed captioning quit several times (I leave it on most of the time). Settings still showed it on and the only way I have gotten it back is to re-boot. Has anyone else noticed this problem? Or am I the only old guy that need closed captioning?

I agree that Passport was much better at starting recordings a little early and ending a little late whenever possible. And, it was smart enough to know that it could only do this when there were not multiple back-to-back recordings.

I wouldn't categorize what Navigator does as a bug, but rather a software programming failure. It also appears that Navigator's internal clock is off (behind) by a couple of seconds. Whenever possible, I try to remember to add a minute to the start and end times of my recordings, depending on the program.

It does seem that it would be quite easy for Navigator programmers to build in a time padding of 10-30 seconds at the beginning and end of each recording to ensure that nothing is missed. And, it also seems to me to be it would be a rather simple (BASIC??) sub-routine that the padding would not be permitted when both tuners are needed to record other programs before or afterward.

Manually padding the program works pretty well.

When we had Passport and recorded two consecutive programs on the same channel with an extra minute or two on the end, the first program would record the first x minutes of the second, but the second would not start until the first finished. So if we wanted the first couple of minutes of the second show, we had to save the first until we were ready to watch the second.

When we record an extra couple of minutes with Navigator, the first show has the start of the second show, BUT so does the second show. Navigator seems to be able to write it to both files.

I have a question for the navigator users here. Is it still as dreadfully slow as it was in that YouTube video? That would be enough to drive me batty! I can't imagine dealing with one and two second delays with button presses. I'm just curious as to what the current "usability" rating is because our division is on hold as far as I know pending the outcome of future releases.

If you mean the speed of the Guide in Navigator, I don't have any problems w/it...I haven't really thought about it at all, which tells me it must not be bothering me. :-)

Loading the Guide is like a second, maybe, when scrolling through shows in the Guide I don't get delays (unless I go forward enough days to force the buffer to load more data, selecting and changing channels work quickly. Hasn't been an issue for me since the recent SW updates.

I have a question for the navigator users here. Is it still as dreadfully slow as it was in that YouTube video? That would be enough to drive me batty! I can't imagine dealing with one and two second delays with button presses. I'm just curious as to what the current "usability" rating is because our division is on hold as far as I know pending the outcome of future releases.

That depends on your box and the version of Navigator that runs on it.

On a Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 (which is so obsolete that Cisco and Scientific Atlanta before it was bought out that it was not listed on their web sites), Navigator is super-slow. You will have to judge how speedy or slow this software runs on other legacy boxes.

On an 8300HD (not the 8300HDC), it is extremely fast except when it must load guide data, in which case this is as super-slow as Passport used to be when loading guide data because not all legacy boxes have the DOCSIS cable modem required to allow instant loading of the guide data. However, depending on the version deployed in your division, the version running on legacy boxes (which are boxes without CableCARDs) could be super crash prone in certain situations involving closed captioning. Legacy versions of Navigator are also known as MDN to differentiate them from ODN below. The latest version of MDN being tested in some markets seems to fix the crashes involving closed captioning.

I have never used a Scientific Atlanta 8000HD DVR, but I have heard that it crashes while it runs Passport Echo due to running out of memory. Since Navigator looks like it is more memory hungry due to its high-resolution graphics everywhere (instead of Passport Echo which leaves loads of hard to read low-resolution graphics in many places), I wonder if the 8000HD will crash more often due to out-of-memory errors.

The version of Navigator that runs on 8300HDC or an 8240HDC is slower than the code that runs on the 8300HD because it is written in OCAP; a Java-based standard that provides a common language for all cable boxes that can support it, and currently requires a CableCARD; but it is still fast enough to be tolerable for me. The legacy version of Navigator for boxes without CableCARDs cannot run on a box with a CableCARD due to hardware-software incompatability, so the OCAP version of Navigator must be deployed on these boxes. Those two boxes lack the hardware needed in their CPUs to run OCAP as quickly as we would like. However, since all CableCARD-based Scientific-Atlanta boxes include a DOCSIS cable modem, retrieving guide data beyond which has already been loaded is instant. However, this might not be true for certain Motorola SDTV-only set-top boxes with CableCARDs because their advertisements do not list a DOCSIS cable modem, forcing them to use the super-slow path legacy boxes use to load guide data if they run Navigator. Depending on which version of the OCAP-based Navigator (a.k.a. ODN) is deployed in your division, using an eSATA drive might turn your box into a crash-prone mess. The newest version being deployed and tested in some markets seems to fix this eSATA debacle and some HDMI bugs.

The newer Samsung boxes that Time Warner Cable wants to deploy and newer Cisco boxes probably have the CPU components needed to run OCAP quickly, allowing Navigator to run much more quickly on these boxes designed to run Java from the ground up.

I haven't had any crashes on my SA8300HD w/the 2.4.1-107 release, and haven't had any crashes/lock-ups in several weeks. The box is on (really "on", not in standby) 24/7, and gets a ton of use (attached to the only TV in the house w/full cable access).

In contrast to the initial problems when Navigator first rolled out, it seems very stable now.

Well, it's good to hear they are making significant progress. My main issue about delays was show by the customer pushing a button and it taking literally 2 full seconds to register and then execute said command by the set top. I can deal with a slight delay and if most people here are not noticing it, then it can't be that bad.

On my SA8300HDC, is there a way to tell Nav to record a series only on a specific day(s) at specific time(s) like passport? If not, this is a real step back as I have started watching TW Sports channel and they replay shows all the time. Quite ironic...:mad:

On my SA8300HDC, is there a way to tell Nav to record a series only on a specific day(s) at specific time(s) like passport? If not, this is a real step back as I have started watching TW Sports channel and they replay shows all the time. Quite ironic...:mad:

Not that I know of.Both SARA and PASSPORT have both these options.Another NAVIGATOR failure. SARA 1.89.17.1 Greensboro NC and Navigator (beach house) Emerald Isle NC

Tim,

Is the problem still there today? If so, have you tried rebooting your box?

If the issue hasn't resolved itself within a day or so, call TWC and give them those code numbers for the errors regarding your Free On Demand channels. Most likely, they will reboot the box there and send someone out to check the head end. Sometimes my VOD does the same thing, but it's resolved in a couple of hours without calling TWC or rebooting.

Jack


SatchMan:

My box rebooted on its own late last night and now the problem seems to be resolved. Thanks..

"My Boys" is one of our favorite shows...good to hear we're not the only ones watching it, I keep worrying it's got a small audience and is going to get cancelled - now I know there are at least two households watching! :-)

well it's lucky they aren't relying on cable data for ratings because yet again Nav failed to record it for some unspecified reason. It didn't have a problem recording a repeat of Supernatural at the same time.

I went out of town this week and while I was checking the guide to see if My Boys would be repeated I got a spontaneous reboot as well.

Welcome home to Time Warner Cable. :rolleyes:

well it's lucky they aren't relying on cable data for ratings because yet again Nav failed to record it for some unspecified reason. It didn't have a problem recording a repeat of Supernatural at the same time.

I went out of town this week and while I was checking the guide to see if My Boys would be repeated I got a spontaneous reboot as well.

Welcome home to Time Warner Cable. :rolleyes:

Bummer...I haven't checked, but maybe episodes are available online.

I haven't had any issues w/missed recordings w/the recent updates...hopefully they will roll out to you and others soon.

In case you did not pay attention to PC news, AMD's now former CEO, Hector Ruiz, got replaced by Dirk Meyer, and it is exiting the DTV and handheld graphics businesses it got by buying out ATI Technologies. AMD has been losing money for seven straight quarters, and the DTV and handheld processor divisions from ATI are big money losers. As far as I know, the Scientific Atlanta 8300HDC uses ATI's Xilleon chips for their integrated MIPS CPUs, demodulators, QAM decoders, MPEG-2 decoders, image postprocessing, and 2D graphics generators on one chip. While these chips' image postprocessors are great, their CPUs might not have the branch predictor needed to handle Java interpretation and recompilation quickly. Could this spell the demise of the engineering rush jobs known as the Scientific Atlanta 8300HDC and the Scientific Atlanta 8240HDC due to component unavailability, forcing TWC to quickly upgrade its boxes to more capable boxes like the Cisco 8550HDC or 8552HDC, or the Samsung SMT-H3090 or SMT-H3092?

Please correct me if I am wrong about the chips used in the 8300HDC because I am not certain about whether or not this box uses an ATI Xilleon TV system on a chip or some other chip(s) to handle everything the DVR needs done besides MPEG2 encode of analog video and audio, which is done on some Broadcom chip.

Could be. Big deal--they were pretty close to end-of-life, anyway. I was actually surprised that SA continued that line with the HDC models. They must not have had the successor model quite ready yet.

When the new Cisco model boxes hit, it will be big news for this forum!

Anyone know what division is going to get them first?

Jack

My 8300hdc (POS) rebooted today and now all of my saved programs are gone. I can't get to the version screen right now but I'm prety sure it's still 24.09.03 or something like that. HAs anybody had this problem of lost programs. I am not using a SATA drive or anything. Box is slow, recording options suck, can't switch tuners without PIP and can't switch tuners without losing all the buffered video on both tuners. I don't like Navigator and I cannot beleive they are not constantly updating it.

On my SA8300HDC, is there a way to tell Nav to record a series only on a specific day(s) at specific time(s) like passport? If not, this is a real step back as I have started watching TW Sports channel and they replay shows all the time. Quite ironic...:mad:

I would also like to be able to specify a day and time like Passport, but a plus for Navigator is that it will only record a single instance of a show, at least if it can identify that the second time slot is the same.

+1 with the 8300 HD and Navigator version 2.4.1-107. I'm not using HDMI, but eSATA seems fine now and no re-boots. I have had closed captioning quit several times (I leave it on most of the time). Settings still showed it on and the only way I have gotten it back is to re-boot. Has anyone else noticed this problem? Or am I the only old guy that need closed captioning?



Sorry about the bump, but this was buried in a longer post. Has anyone else with the MDN upgrade run into the problem I have had losing Closed Captioning?

OMG - TW drives me crazy! I tried to record 2 pay-per-view movies lately, and both were not recorded. The message in the Log is that box was unable to record the show. Called TW, and was told pay-per-view is not recordable "for security reasons"???? Is this true? I've been recording movies for years of course. Told them if it's a new policy, they better tell people and remove the "buy and record" option from Navigator. Just like talking to a brick wall.....The best part is - they are sending me a coupon for another movie - I'll just have to stay up and watch it if it's on at 3AM!

Sorry about the bump, but this was buried in a longer post. Has anyone else with the MDN upgrade run into the problem I have had losing Closed Captioning?

I traded in my box for an 8240HDC (which eventually cooked itself and got replaced with an 8300HDC) when mixing closed captioning, DVR, and HDTV caused it to reboot with MDN 2.4.1-92. I guess that the MDN 2.4.1-92 swapped one closed captioning bug with another one. I suggest you trade in your box for an ODN box, where closed captioning is bug free if closed captioning is important in your house.

Just be sure to take precautions to keep your new box from overheating if it turns out to be a Scientific Atlanta 8240HDC or an 8300HDC, as the 8300HDC and the 8240HDC seem to have power supplies that were inherited from the 8300HD. This power supply seems to be powerful enough to take care of an 8300HD, but seems to be overloaded on the 8300HDC and the 8240HDC from the additional load needed to power a CableCARD. Keeping power supplies cooler raises their limit on the amount of power they can convert from wall AC to the DC needed by the DVR without generating unstable power.

OMG - TW drives me crazy! I tried to record 2 pay-per-view movies lately, and both were not recorded. The message in the Log is that box was unable to record the show. Called TW, and was told pay-per-view is not recordable "for security reasons"???? Is this true? I've been recording movies for years of course. Told them if it's a new policy, they better tell people and remove the "buy and record" option from Navigator. Just like talking to a brick wall.....The best part is - they are sending me a coupon for another movie - I'll just have to stay up and watch it if it's on at 3AM!

This was a possibility before? I was not aware of that nor do I recall seeing a "buy and record" option. Where is that?
Far as I knew, you couldn't have the DVR record PPV/OD programming, so I let it copy straight to my DVD burner.

"Buy and Record" is the first option listed when you choose a pay-per-view movie from the Guide. When you choose this, the movie in the Guide turns green and shows REC next to it. This always worked before to record pay-per-view movies.

"Buy and Record" is the first option listed when you choose a pay-per-view movie from the Guide. When you choose this, the movie in the Guide turns green and shows REC next to it. This always worked before to record pay-per-view movies.

I have never seen that option ever given for a MOD and since PPV channels are being culled I don't see it now. Are you sure you are in the right thread?

Very sure. That option is listed first. Second below it is just "Buy".

It's probably an optional feature that can be enabled on a market-by-market basis. I can find documentation for a similar feature in Passport on some TWC sites, though I'm pretty sure that it was never available here in San Diego.

Very sure. That option is listed first. Second below it is just "Buy".
What is your location? This option has never been available with Time Warner in Charlotte NC!

Erie, PA - we've had that option for quite some time, under Passport and Navigator.

What is your location? This option has never been available with Time Warner in Charlotte NC!

I've just checked, and I have it, so there's a good chance Charlotte has it. Just make sure what you are checking is really Pay-Per-View (i.e. scheduled at certain times), as opposed to On Demand (available any time). There is no such option for On Demand shows (as it is not needed), and they seem to be a vast majority of shows you have to pay for on individual basis. It was actually difficult finding a true Pay-Per-View show, but they do exist.

It is pay-per-view movies. We only have one channel for them now, as compared to 30 when Adelphia was here. What a joke. I'm now waiting to hear back from TW via email to see if they give me the same story as the guy on the phone.

I've just checked, and I have it, so there's a good chance Charlotte has it. Just make sure what you are checking is really Pay-Per-View (i.e. scheduled at certain times), as opposed to On Demand (available any time). There is no such option for On Demand shows (as it is not needed), and they seem to be a vast majority of shows you have to pay for on individual basis. It was actually difficult finding a true Pay-Per-View show, but they do exist.

Yes,

About 6 months ago, I checked with my local TWC office in Milwaukee and was told you can DVR record PPV's. What you CANNOT record are On-Demand and Music Choice channels for copyright reasons.

Pay-Per-View: has a predetermined start and end time. It is used primarily for special events such as Boxing, Wrestling, Concerts, and MMA. In contrast, Video On Demand's start, stop, rewind, and pause times are controlled by the viewer. Most Movie Channels are now On Demand instread of PPV for almost all cable locations.

Free Video on Demand: Several channels available free of charge 24x7 with information that changes weekly.

Movies on Demand: Individual movies available 24x7 for a 24 hour period from the time of ordering where the viewer controls all start and stop times. They are generally about $2-$4 per title. Same day DVD releases and Special Edition films are about $8-$10 per title.

Premium On Demand: Requires a monthly subscription to a premium channel service. The VOD is offered either for a few dollars more per month or for free as long as you take the base channel. (i.e subscribe to HBO, get HBO On Demand)

Music Choice: Available with almost all digital packages at no extra charge. About 45 channels of commercial/DJ free CD quality music in all different categories. Most can't record this. But I have heard that if you have the buffer active and have been tuned to the channel for up to 90 minutes, you CAN rewind to a song that was previously playing. If you try to record Music Choice, a blank screen shows on Playback.

Most likely, you tried to record a Video on Demand Channel instead of a conventional PPV. Let us know if this was not the case.

Jack

Pay-Per-View: has a predetermined start and end time. It is used primarily for special events such as Boxing, Wrestling, Concerts, and MMA. In contrast, Video On Demand's start, stop, rewind, and pause times are controlled by the viewer. Most Movie Channels are now On Demand instread of PPV for almost all cable locations.Jack, Good Summary. I believe that your ability to record PPV may be limited by the particular event (and license agreements). I know that I could record any events that I purchased, but I have understood that there have been some that you could not.

It is pay-per-view movies. We only have one channel for them now, as compared to 30 when Adelphia was here. What a joke. I'm now waiting to hear back from TW via email to see if they give me the same story as the guy on the phone.I would expect all scheduled PPV movies to disappear eventually, replaced entirely by pay-per-viewing-period VOD (the cable industry--and FCC regulations--calls the pay stuff simply "VOD" and distinguishes the rest with qualifiers--Subscription VOD, Free VOD, etc). In concept, there's no advantage of scheduled PPV over VOD for leased box users (or, someday soon, <tru2way>-compliant equipment owners), though if you can record PPV on your DVR you'd get typically better control response on playback.

Scheduled Pay-Per-View may continue to be used for live special events (concerts, wrestling, etc); I'm uncertain how they could use VOD for that stuff.

Yes,

About 6 months ago, I checked with my local TWC office in Milwaukee and was told you can DVR record PPV's. What you CANNOT record are On-Demand and Music Choice channels for copyright reasons.

Pay-Per-View: has a predetermined start and end time. It is used primarily for special events such as Boxing, Wrestling, Concerts, and MMA. In contrast, Video On Demand's start, stop, rewind, and pause times are controlled by the viewer. Most Movie Channels are now On Demand instread of PPV for almost all cable locations.

Free Video on Demand: Several channels available free of charge 24x7 with information that changes weekly.

Movies on Demand: Individual movies available 24x7 for a 24 hour period from the time of ordering where the viewer controls all start and stop times. They are generally about $2-$4 per title. Same day DVD releases and Special Edition films are about $8-$10 per title.

Premium On Demand: Requires a monthly subscription to a premium channel service. The VOD is offered either for a few dollars more per month or for free as long as you take the base channel. (i.e subscribe to HBO, get HBO On Demand)

Music Choice: Available with almost all digital packages at no extra charge. About 45 channels of commercial/DJ free CD quality music in all different categories. Most can't record this. But I have heard that if you have the buffer active and have been tuned to the channel for up to 90 minutes, you CAN rewind to a song that was previously playing. If you try to record Music Choice, a blank screen shows on Playback.

Most likely, you tried to record a Video on Demand Channel instead of a conventional PPV. Let us know if this was not the case.

Jack

The easiest solution to this:

If you have something you value as a PPV, MAKE A BACK UP. (With a VCR Tape, DVD Burner, or whatever.) That way you don't have to rely on your DVR's and especially any uncertainties with Navigator when you record something.

I am interested in what our user says when CSR told him after PPV'ing for years that he couldn't because of a copyright issue. I know that you can't do it for VOD, but that is really surprising that some locations can't for PPV.

Another thought: How can we be sure that this was not another classic Navigator, "channel not available" bug? I don't think that can be proven or disproven. So many of those CSR's on the phone still think Navigator can do no wrong! LOL! While there have certainly been good improvements, it is still far from stellar. I would chalk this issue up to a Navigator box f**k up more so than a copyright issue.

The "Buy and Record" prompt would not be there on PPV channels if it could not be used.

Jack

Well, I'm done trying to get a straight answer from TW. Their support people are the worst of any company I've dealt with. Now they say I should be able to record pay-per-view movies??? So I tried with my other box and it did record OK. So now I have one box that records movies and one that doesn't. Doesn't make sense to me. I will have to try the other box again.

In any case, we don't have any kind of VOD in Erie, PA. It's an Adelphia system that TW is just now working on upgrading. So our only choice for movies is our one pay-per-view channel. Just like living in the dark ages....

Well, I'm done trying to get a straight answer from TW. Their support people are the worst of any company I've dealt with. Now they say I should be able to record pay-per-view movies??? So I tried with my other box and it did record OK. So now I have one box that records movies and one that doesn't. Doesn't make sense to me. I will have to try the other box again.

In any case, we don't have any kind of VOD in Erie, PA. It's an Adelphia system that TW is just now working on upgrading. So our only choice for movies is our one pay-per-view channel. Just like living in the dark ages....

Scnrfrg,

Have you tried rebooting the other box that doesn't record the PPV movies? For references, what model box are you using that doesn't record PPV movies, and what box are you using that does record PPV movies?

Jack

Well, I'm done trying to get a straight answer from TW. Their support people are the worst of any company I've dealt with. Now they say I should be able to record pay-per-view movies??? So I tried with my other box and it did record OK. So now I have one box that records movies and one that doesn't. Doesn't make sense to me. I will have to try the other box again.

In any case, we don't have any kind of VOD in Erie, PA. It's an Adelphia system that TW is just now working on upgrading. So our only choice for movies is our one pay-per-view channel. Just like living in the dark ages....

It's common knowledge that the CSR's at TWC are clueless and lack even the most basic technical knowledge or training. The standard line is either a) reboot the box b) exchange the box or c) we'll send out a tech.

I don't really rely on the help center for anything. They couldn't even answer a basic question about HD locals via ClearQAM which is the law. They insisted I needed a set top.

I traded in my box for an 8240HDC (which eventually cooked itself and got replaced with an 8300HDC) when mixing closed captioning, DVR, and HDTV caused it to reboot with MDN 2.4.1-92. I guess that the MDN 2.4.1-92 swapped one closed captioning bug with another one. I suggest you trade in your box for an ODN box, where closed captioning is bug free if closed captioning is important in your house.

The closed captioning problem is anoying, but only requires a reboot occasionally. I am still curious about whether others have the problem or if it is unique to my box. I will try to test that with a friend here who has the same box.

Your problems with the ODN box along with the generally sluggish performance and the hassle of changing boxes will probably keep me with MDN for a while. It would be interesting to compare features. I know I can set the priority of scheduled recordings, which I could not on the last ODN (pre update) box I had. I am curious as to what other differences there are.

In any case, we don't have any kind of VOD in Erie, PA. It's an Adelphia system that TW is just now working on upgrading. So our only choice for movies is our one pay-per-view channel. Just like living in the dark ages....

Now it all makes sense! You get screwed twice. First by being dragged into the TWC infrastructure and then by being Navigated.

I will try reboooting the box again. It is an 8300 HD, with an external HD. The one that does record movies OK is an 8300 HDC.

I will try rebooting the box again. It is an 8300 HD, with an external HD. The one that does record movies OK is an 8300 HDC.

The other thing would be considering disconnecting the external drive before ordering a PPV movie. You would think that wouldn't make a difference, but sometimes depending on where you live and the model box you have, as well as the competence or lack thereof for your division, little things can mean a lot. Especially with Navigator.

The research that has been collected is that divisions that have been bought out by TWC, such as yours (You said you originally were Adelphia, right?) seem to have less knowledgeable staff about their systems as opposed to those cable offices who have been there for 10-15 years or more under original TWC management. Your office might still be in a transitional phase, teaching and training the former Adelphia CSR's/ techs how to change to the new system. Because of this transition flux, there may be a lot of reps that don't know WTF they are talking about. Others may have good intentions of trying to help their customers, but they may have been given misleading information.

Some further questions:

1.) Do you know or remember when your office management was changed over to TWC? Were there major problems with the transfer?

2.) Did the PPV movie problems JUST start happening on the 8300? (i.e a few days ago?, a few weeks ago?)

3.) When did you get changed to Navigator? Are both boxes on the new Navigator system? Any other problems with the boxes either with the external drive connected or disconnected other than the PPV movie problem on the 8300?

4.) Have you looked at other options, such as U-Verse, or Dish for your area?

Jack

Holy crap something new to me which is a further annoyance.

Usually it's a few days before I watch a cable recording but the last week or so I've been watching and deleting the next day. Unfortunately Nav cannot remember that I watched and deleted something (which is ironic considering it has a log now) and lists all episodes of a repeat of that first episode as "new."

I'm losing track of how many times the stupid thing has tried to record or has recorded Burn Notice and Psych because the guide lists all the repeat airings as new. Now I have the choice of the box recording all the damn episodes or just the one airing and hoping they don't change times.

This hasn't occurred to me before because unlike cable, network shows don't usually get repeat airings in the same week.

something posted by Tarheelone in the local thread from the Raleigh News and Observer:
Cable guide annoys viewers
By Danny Hooley, Staff Writer

If you're a Time Warner Cable customer who uses a cable box, you can't help but notice a big change in the menu lately.

Time Warner recently rolled out the Navigator menu as a replacement to the old Passport menu system for finding and recording programs.

Time Warner promised Navigator would be an improvement over the old system, calling it the "smartest and easiest" way to find shows and citing the soon-to-come "start over" option that allows viewers to jump to the beginning of a show if they missed the first few minutes. There's also an on-screen caller ID that saves viewers who subscribe to TWC's digital phone service from getting off the couch needlessly to answer unwanted calls.

But, compared to Passport, it's disappointing. No longer can you just click the little red button in search mode to find all future showings of a highlighted program. Now, you have to take a couple of steps before typing out the title of the program you'd like to search on the keyboard.

There are frequent reboots. The time between changing screens and channels has slowed considerably.

"It's not only annoying, but sometimes there's stuff on the screen you don't want your grandchildren to see, or somebody on there you can't stand, and want to get off the screen, like Dr. Phil," says Jack McGarrigle, 74, of Fuquay-Varina. "Plus they changed it to white against a pale blue background, which is difficult to read."

more: http://www.newsobserver.com/105/story/1149559.html

In answer to your questions:
1. To me, the TW reps are much worse than Adelphia. They haven't a clue how to help.
2. I just noticed the problem with recording movies.
3. Both boxes are on Navigator, this box was changed several months ago from
Passport. No other problems other than recording movies.
4. We have no other options here. Direct TV does not offer locals at all. Dish does not
offer locals in HD. U-verse or FIOS won't be here for years.

In answer to your questions:

4. We have no other options here. Direct TV does not offer locals at all. Dish does not
offer locals in HD. U-verse or FIOS won't be here for years.

and TWC is well aware of this! Utica, NY is the same way. Neiter sat provider offers locals and it's virtually impossible to get the CBS feed via OTA because it's coming from 60 miles away in another DMA. FiOS is light years away as well.

I was having the following problem: with the 8300HD connected to my processor via HDMI only and the 8300 set to “pass though” the video signal (all resolutions selected for output) I got no sound when the 8300 was outputting video in 480i or 480p. On 720p or 1080i channels I received sound through HDMI. If I switched the 8300 to force 720p or 1080i output then I received sound on all channels through the HDMI.

I now have an 8300HDC connected the same way. On this box I am getting no sound at all through the HDMI (yes I have the audio out set to HDMI and digital). I then connected a digital coaxial cable between my 8300 and my processor and switched the audio output to digital coaxial (and the audio input on my processor to digital coaxial) and I then received sound on all channels.

I realize that I can hook up the processor via this method, but any suggestions on how to get sound through the HDMI connection?

I do not know which Navigator software version I have – I not sure how to check this.

I also realize that I need to double check my HDMI connections to make sure they are straight and tight and try another HDMI enabled unit into the same input on my processor to make sure that it is not the one having the problem and not the 8300.

Thoughts?

Thank you,

Mike

If I could get my sports teams games in HD over the Interner to a "computer", I would not have cable/sat/etc. It is a rip off and we have all become alpha testers for free.

I was having the following problem: with the 8300HD connected to my processor via HDMI only and the 8300 set to “pass though” the video signal (all resolutions selected for output) I got no sound when the 8300 was outputting video in 480i or 480p. On 720p or 1080i channels I received sound through HDMI. If I switched the 8300 to force 720p or 1080i output then I received sound on all channels through the HDMI.

I now have an 8300HDC connected the same way. On this box I am getting no sound at all through the HDMI (yes I have the audio out set to HDMI and digital). I then connected a digital coaxial cable between my 8300 and my processor and switched the audio output to digital coaxial (and the audio input on my processor to digital coaxial) and I then received sound on all channels.

I realize that I can hook up the processor via this method, but any suggestions on how to get sound through the HDMI connection?

I do not know which Navigator software version I have – I not sure how to check this.

I also realize that I need to double check my HDMI connections to make sure they are straight and tight and try another HDMI enabled unit into the same input on my processor to make sure that it is not the one having the problem and not the 8300.

Thoughts?

Thank you,

Mike

What kind of processor are you using? If it is a scaler, try removing it. If it is a home theater system, try removing it, and then connect the home theater system to the cable box via S/PDIF or TOSLINK. There have been so many problems with HDMI that it is best that you do not have anything but a good HDMI cable between the source device (e.g. your cable box, video game console, or Blu-ray player) and your television.

You might also need to tell the box to negotiate which sound format to send to the TV with the TV itself. Here are the steps to do this on an 8300HDC with Navigator on it:

Press the settings button on your remote.
You should enter the Quick Settings menu of the settings control panel. If not, press left or right until the Quick Settings menu is active.
Move the cursor to the "Devices" item in the menu.
Press the select button on your remote.
This opens another menu. Move the cursor to select the Audio:Digital Output item.
Press right.
Push up or down enough times until "HDMI" is selected. This tells the box to negotiate an acceptable sound format to send to the television. Whatever format is negotiated will also be sent out the TOSLINK and the S/PDIF ports. If you wish to force Dolby Digital for some reason (e.g. your TV can only handle PCM and you want to send Dolby Digital to the home theater system, or you are using component video and therefore negotiations are impossible), select "Dolby Digital". To force PCM, select "Other".
Press A to save this setting.
Press Exit.

What kind of processor are you using? If it is a scaler, try removing it. If it is a home theater system, try removing it, and then connect the home theater system to the cable box via S/PDIF or TOSLINK. There have been so many problems with HDMI that it is best that you do not have anything but a good HDMI cable between the source device (e.g. your cable box, video game console, or Blu-ray player) and your television.

You might also need to tell the box to negotiate which sound format to send to the TV with the TV itself. Here are the steps to do this on an 8300HDC with Navigator on it:

Press the settings button on your remote.
You should enter the Quick Settings menu of the settings control panel. If not, press left or right until the Quick Settings menu is active.
Move the cursor to the "Devices" item in the menu.
Press the select button on your remote.
This opens another menu. Move the cursor to select the Audio:Digital Output item.
Press right.
Push up or down enough times until "HDMI" is selected. This tells the box to negotiate an acceptable sound format to send to the television. Whatever format is negotiated will also be sent out the TOSLINK and the S/PDIF ports. If you wish to force Dolby Digital for some reason (e.g. your TV can only handle PCM and you want to send Dolby Digital to the home theater system, or you are using component video and therefore negotiations are impossible), select "Dolby Digital". To force PCM, select "Other".
Press A to save this setting.
Press Exit.


I am using an Anthem D2. The deinterlacer/scaler in the D2 is so much better than the one in either the 8300 or my projector (I send 1080p/60 to the projector) that I have no desire to go directly to my projector from the 8300. On my 100" screen the difference in the quality of sending the native signal from the 8300 through the D2 versus all the other options is very dramatic.

As i indicated, the video portion of the HDMI is working wonderfully and I am getting Dolby Digital through the coaxial digital cable. I just feel as if the cable box is not properly communicating the audio signal via HDMI for some unknown reason - it could be the cable box, it could be the D2, it could be the HDMI cable...

I will play around with the cables and settings some tonight and see if I can get it to work.

Thank you for the feedback.

Mike

Have the new MDN version which is 2.4.1.-107 on this SA 3250HD which also replaced an old pioneer box. Some bugs have been fixed and no reboots since the update. The channel logos don't disappear except on channels that don't have them. Navigator could be better but this version seems to be an improvement over 2.4.1-92 which caused some reboots. So far so good.

I'm still waiting to see when they are going to add guide customization. IE: add/delete channels or show only channels you sub too, block adult, show only HD, etc. I realize they have to get it working right first, but as of right now this guide doesn't offer ANYTHING new at all to SARA users (whenever we are going to get it). I just fired off an email to local about piss poor channel configuration in our division. I asked why they can't line up HD channels with SD equivalents. It just makes sense and then maybe, just maybe my wife would record the HD versions of our shows instead of the lousy SD ones. I mean, for example: Food Network is analog 39, yet the digital HD channel is mapped at 827 while TNT is 27 and 821 for TNTHD. WHY!. All the HD versions should be the same as SD with the 8 in front! DUH! Food should be 39 analog and 839 digital HD, TNT should be 27 analog and 827 digital HD, so on and so forth!!! Is this really that hard to implement or does TWC just like to keep things confusing and difficult?

Does Navigator at least offer any way to do this via menu or favorites?

I still get the bug in Navigator where sometimes you cannot change the time of a recording AFTER you have set it if you want a show to start earlier or later than the pre-set time. You sometimes have to set up the show first, (Record Show With Options) by adjusting the start time. Than it comes out showing the correct changes.

If you have this bug (I have an SA 8300 DVR-MDN box) you have to go and CANCEL the original recording. Than, go back to record the same show by selecting Record Show with options, and adjust the start/end time for your show.

What this bug means is that sometimes the start/end times must be set when you originally set up the recording, or they may not be able to be changed, unless you cancel the recording and redo it with, Record Show With Options.

Jack

I'm still waiting to see when they are going to add guide customization. IE: add/delete channels or show only channels you sub too, block adult, show only HD, etc. I realize they have to get it working right first, but as of right now this guide doesn't offer ANYTHING new at all to SARA users (whenever we are going to get it). I just fired off an email to local about piss poor channel configuration in our division. I asked why they can't line up HD channels with SD equivalents. It just makes sense and then maybe, just maybe my wife would record the HD versions of our shows instead of the lousy SD ones. I mean, for example: Food Network is analog 39, yet the digital HD channel is mapped at 827 while TNT is 27 and 821 for TNTHD. WHY!. All the HD versions should be the same as SD with the 8 in front! DUH! Food should be 39 analog and 839 digital HD, TNT should be 27 analog and 827 digital HD, so on and so forth!!! Is this really that hard to implement or does TWC just like to keep things confusing and difficult?

Does Navigator at least offer any way to do this via menu or favorites?

As the ramp up to add new HD channels gets going, you may see a channel realignment within a year (my guess). When a bunch of new HD channels were added in Kansas City recently, TWC announced a realignment:
http://www.timewarnercable.com/InvestorRelations/PressReleases/TWCPressReleaseDivDetail.ashx?PRID=2295&MarketID=22

Maybe you can show that press release to your local office and see if they have any comments on their future plans.

Visit HowCableShouldBe.com and voice your support for CHOICE!

I just thought I'd voice my support for cable choice, but pretty much in the opposite manner that you are advocating.

So-called 'Ala Carte Cable' or 'Cable Choice', where each customer would be allowed to pick and choose to subscribe to only the channels they actually wanted to watch, would be a 'lose-lose' idea for everyone - customers, programmers, and providers.

Right now, we get a full buffet of channels and each one costs a few pennies (on average) since they are bundled together in tiers and provided to everyone. The costs per subscriber per channel are minimal since they are spread over a much larger pool of customers. But, if channels were selected and purchased individually, the expense of programming and distributing each channel to fewer subscribers would dramatically increase the costs per channel to each individual subscriber. An Ala Carte system would most certainly cause many smaller, niche channels to fail, and would discourage new channels from coming to market.

There are a lot of channels I don't want, and that I rarely or never watch, but I'm glad they exist for the folks who do want them. There are also many channels that I do want, and that I enjoy watching, but I know that many other folks don't want and never watch. However, since we are all sharing the costs for all the channels, thus keeping costs down on a per channel basis, we all benefit from increased programming choices. With an Ala Carte model, we would certainly end up with significantly fewer programming choices, but would doubtfully see any substantial decrease in our overall monthly bills.

- End Soapbox.

I just thought I'd voice my support for cable choice, but pretty much in the opposite manner that you are advocating.

So-called 'Ala Carte Cable' or 'Cable Choice', where each customer would be allowed to pick and choose to subscribe to only the channels they actually wanted to watch, would be a 'lose-lose' idea for everyone - customers, programmers, and providers.

Right now, we get a full buffet of channels and each one costs a few pennies (on average) since they are bundled together in tiers and provided to everyone. The costs per subscriber per channel are minimal since they are spread over a much larger pool of customers. But, if channels were selected and purchased individually, the expense of programming and distributing each channel to fewer subscribers would dramatically increase the costs per channel to each individual subscriber. An Ala Carte system would most certainly cause many smaller, niche channels to fail, and would discourage new channels from coming to market.

There are a lot of channels I don't want, and that I rarely or never watch, but I'm glad they exist for the folks who do want them. There are also many channels that I do want, and that I enjoy watching, but I know that many other folks don't want and never watch. However, since we are all sharing the costs for all the channels, thus keeping costs down on a per channel basis, we all benefit from increased programming choices. With an Ala Carte model, we would certainly end up with significantly fewer programming choices, but would doubtfully see any substantial decrease in our overall monthly bills.

- End Soapbox.

Actually, that's a valid point you are making. I really haven't updated my sig since the demise of my UticaHDTV.com days when I was advocating for DMA de-regulation due to severe lack of competition. My whole beef is mainly sports programming/sports franchise issues. These are really solely responsible for the ever increasing cost of programming. In order for Ala Carte to work the whole industry would have to change how it does business and you would see price reductions for carriage because people would be able to pick and choose. Especially if ALL sports channels were put into a tier! If they took just sports and isolated it, your bill would drop between $10 and $20. The reality is that this will not happen. If nothing else, they should end tying whereas a provider can be held hostage by the programmer and punished for non-carriage of a particular channel. IE: the Viacom fiasco where ALL the stations they own get pulled due to their desire to add a channel (NickToons). The programmer should not be able to dictate how their channel is sold and on what tier of service. They should say here is the price and negotiate in good faith. That's why I don't support things in their current state. I'd even support a "metered" system, but again, that will never happen. Anyhow, let's get back on track with Navigator:

Is there anything being added to Navigator in the way of features? Or is the only thing being done patches and bug fixes?

I'm mainly following this because I think once they achieve a level of uniform stability, SARA markets will start seeing it.

I don't know if this was asked yet for Explorer 8300, but a few (3 or 4) months ago, we got a major update with a channel lineup that is different than before. I'm in TWC North East Ohio (NEO TWC).

After this update, whenever I turn on our Samsung HD projection TV, I got this message on screen: "Your TV does not allow display of this program through the DVI input source. Please choose another TV input source." I push the yellow triangle and it goes away, or I push the GUIDE button and it goes away also and I can watch TV with no problems.

This is annoying, and I would like to get rid of this message once and for all.

I don't know if this was asked yet for Explorer 8300, but a few (3 or 4) months ago, we got a major update with a channel lineup that is different than before. I'm in TWC North East Ohio (NEO TWC).

After this update, whenever I turn on our Samsung HD projection TV, I got this message on screen: "Your TV does not allow display of this program through the DVI input source. Please choose another TV input source." I push the yellow triangle and it goes away, or I push the GUIDE button and it goes away also and I can watch TV with no problems.

This is annoying, and I would like to get rid of this message once and for all.

Are you using HDMI? If so, are you using a quality cable? That message would be there if you set was having a handshake issue with the set top due to HDCP. HDMI is a great idea with the ALL in One A/V in one wire, but the HDCP is horrible and should be done away with. I have encountered numerous issues with resolution/input switching and AVR units that are usually due to HDCP. Switch to component and they went away. Some of them caused by cheapo cables whereas a quality replacement monoprice 1.3 standard did the trick and some just have inconsistencies communicating between the devices. I personally have seen no difference between component and HDMI out of the 8300HD set top.

Are you using HDMI? If so, are you using a quality cable? That message would be there if you set was having a handshake issue with the set top due to HDCP. HDMI is a great idea with the ALL in One A/V in one wire, but the HDCP is horrible and should be done away with. I have encountered numerous issues with resolution/input switching and AVR units that are usually due to HDCP. Switch to component and they went away. Some of them caused by cheapo cables whereas a quality replacement monoprice 1.3 standard did the trick and some just have inconsistencies communicating between the devices. I personally have seen no difference between component and HDMI out of the 8300HD set top.

Yes, I am using the expensive HDMI cables that they sold me when I bought the TV not quite 2 years ago. Also, this message never appeared until the cable update. I had been using this box for a while with no problems, or errors. Nothing changed except the software/channel lineup and not I'm magically getting this annoying error message.

Annoying because it it doesn't seem to actually do anything, it goes away and I watch TV just fine.

Thanks for the reply.

I don't know if this was asked yet for Explorer 8300, but a few (3 or 4) months ago, we got a major update with a channel lineup that is different than before. I'm in TWC North East Ohio (NEO TWC).

After this update, whenever I turn on our Samsung HD projection TV, I got this message on screen: "Your TV does not allow display of this program through the DVI input source. Please choose another TV input source." I push the yellow triangle and it goes away, or I push the GUIDE button and it goes away also and I can watch TV with no problems.

This is annoying, and I would like to get rid of this message once and for all.

I think that this is a design flaw in your television, or you have a bad HDMI cable. Computer video connections like HDMI, DVI, and recent versions of the VGA standard now expect the monitor to be able to respond to communication requests, even when there is no power supplied to the monitor by the wall. This is done by having up to 50mA of +5V DC power delivered to the monitor via pin 18 of the HDMI connector. The HDMI monitor needs to be able to draw on this power to respond to any communication requests from the source device like HDCP handshakes or must be able to draw power from the wall while the screen is still off.

Because your TV's HDMI circuits fail to draw power from any source when the television is off, it cannot respond to the HDCP handshake. Therefore, the cable box cannot complete the HDCP handshake and therefore must error out and prevent you from watching anything. When you pressed A or entered the guide, the box realizes that the HDCP handshake has succeeded and removes the error screen.

In case you do not understand me, HDCP is an encryption technology designed to keep people from copying the contents of video data being sent to the screen to try to foil piracy. The HDCP handshake is the process of authenticating both devices on both sides of the cable so that the devices can compare the devices to a blacklist of known cracked HDMI devices; and if neither device is blacklisted, the devices then agree on an encryption key. The devices then continuously send keep-alive messages to detect when the cable has been removed, forcing the HDCP handshake to be redone when the connection is reestablished or when a new device is connected, creating a new connection.

I get just about the same number of HDMI handshake errors with Navigator as I used to get with Passport. It's a little annoying, but no so much that I would want to switch to component cables. And it doesn't happen all the time.

The most common times I get handshake error msgs is after switching inputs back from DVD to Cable. And, then other times when first turning in the TV. In both cases, when it happens, I just get a black screen. It usually clears up after turning the TV and box off and then turning the TV and box back on. I usually turn the TV on first and wait a few seconds until I know the screen is ready, then turn the box on.

Equip: SA8300HD with MDN Navigator and a Philips 42" LCD. I use a Philips HDMI cable that I got from Sams Club.

Actually, that's a valid point you are making. I really haven't updated my sig since the demise of my UticaHDTV.com days when I was advocating for DMA de-regulation due to severe lack of competition. My whole beef is mainly sports programming/sports franchise issues. These are really solely responsible for the ever increasing cost of programming. In order for Ala Carte to work the whole industry would have to change how it does business and you would see price reductions for carriage because people would be able to pick and choose. Especially if ALL sports channels were put into a tier! If they took just sports and isolated it, your bill would drop between $10 and $20. The reality is that this will not happen. If nothing else, they should end tying whereas a provider can be held hostage by the programmer and punished for non-carriage of a particular channel. IE: the Viacom fiasco where ALL the stations they own get pulled due to their desire to add a channel (NickToons). The programmer should not be able to dictate how their channel is sold and on what tier of service. They should say here is the price and negotiate in good faith. That's why I don't support things in their current state.

Agreed!

By law, a cable provider 'Must Carry' every full strength local broadcast channel even if they don't want it. But, the broadcaster can withhold their signal from the cable provider for whatever reason (ie: money; carriage of lower strength channels or alternate digital channels owned by the same broadcaster; etc.) I don't think local stations airing commercial programming over public owned broadcast frequencies should be able to charge for their signal or demand carriage of other channels in order to get access to their signal. Sinclair Group recently held several providers hostage for ransom in order to get access to their HD signals in various communities. A few years ago, the local CBS affiliate (Ch10) threatened to withhold their signal from TWC unless TWC would carry a new statewide cable news channel that the owners of Ch10 had just started.

ABC/Disney has way too much influence with cable/satellite providers over what channels they must carry in order to get access to their other more popular channels, and nearly always gets its way. FOX recently started up the Big10 network, and gobbled up NCAA football and basketball games that previously aired free on commercial broadcast TV. Now, since they own the rights to a high-demand product, they have been able to practically extort higher than average monthly fees and better channel locations from numerous providers in states with Big10 schools. TWC has held out for lower fees, etc, but since Comcast recently caved in, I'm sure TWC will soon, too.

**********

As for Navigator, we still have 2.4.1-92 in mid-Ohio (on MDN boxes). Reports from other cities don't seem to indicate that any new features have been added to 2.4.1-107 - just some bug fixes.

Yes, I am using the expensive HDMI cables that they sold me when I bought the TV not quite 2 years ago. Also, this message never appeared until the cable update. I had been using this box for a while with no problems, or errors. Nothing changed except the software/channel lineup and not I'm magically getting this annoying error message.


Change your handshake sequence. My setup likes the box on first then the TV. Any other sequence gives that error. Navigator is extemely annoying in that it switches off the HDMI output whenever it loses the handshake which means switching TV inputs makes the box think you've switched off the TV.

My good run seems to be at an end.

Since SDV got enabled last week my box has decided it doesn't want to schedule record anything on HBOHD. For no reason in particular.

The recording log could be useful in this case but as usual with Navigator it's flawed and inevitably pointless. What does "The set-top was unable to record this program." tell me? Nothing.

It makes it worse when you are sat in front of the box when it should be recording and there is no reason at all it decides not to bother.

My good run seems to be at an end.

Since SDV got enabled last week my box has decided it doesn't want to schedule record anything on HBOHD. For no reason in particular.

The recording log could be useful in this case but as usual with Navigator it's flawed and inevitably pointless. What does "The set-top was unable to record this program." tell me? Nothing.

It makes it worse when you are sat in front of the box when it should be recording and there is no reason at all it decides not to bother.

I've kept my box 'on' all the time for the past several weeks and have experienced no more recording failures. The error message you noted above was quite common for me before I stopped turning the box off when not watching TV (ie: over night and when out of the house.) Try leaving the box on and see if it still fails to record any scheduled programs.

Edit: I had previously noted that my 2nd box in the exercise room, which is also an 8300HD with MDN, has also had recording failures. I've left that box off to see if it would fail to record programs that the main box that is left on did record. I just went to check on it, and found a handful of failed recordings (same 'STB unable to record...' message in the log). The recordings on the 2nd 'off' box are duplicates of some of the recordings on the main 'on' box, and the the shows that failed on the 'off' box recorded just fine on the 'on' box.

When?

TWC here (CentralNY) has been adding HD channels consistently except it's been mainly sports. Still no USA, Fx, Sci-Fi or Fox News. It seems like we are missing all the top rated channels! Instead we get ABC Family and Toon Disney which are just 4x3 upconverted feeds. I have yet to see anything HD on ABC Family.

With Passport, I could press the PIP button and it would change the size from small to larger. With Navigator, this does not work. Is there some combination of button presses that will change the size of the PIP window?

TWC here (CentralNY) has been adding HD channels consistently except it's been mainly sports. Still no USA, Fx, Sci-Fi or Fox News. It seems like we are missing all the top rated channels! Instead we get ABC Family and Toon Disney which are just 4x3 upconverted feeds. I have yet to see anything HD on ABC Family.

I highly recommend checking out 'The Middleman' on ABC family, Monday nights. HD, horrible special effects, great writing.

xnappo

It's interesting to note that the problems with the REW function jumping forward when you hit PLAY again don't exist for VOD viewings. I've been catching up on S-1 of 'Mad Men' on the HD On Demand channel and the REW button works fine, if a little clunky. The drawback is you also don't get the few seconds of "jump back" when you hit play again after using the FF button - a useful feature.

With Passport, I could press the PIP button and it would change the size from small to larger. With Navigator, this does not work. Is there some combination of button presses that will change the size of the PIP window?

There is no way to change the PIP size in Navigator.

I'm still waiting to see when they are going to add guide customization. IE: add/delete channels or show only channels you sub too, block adult, show only HD, etc. I realize they have to get it working right first, but as of right now this guide doesn't offer ANYTHING new at all to SARA users (whenever we are going to get it). I just fired off an email to local about piss poor channel configuration in our division. I asked why they can't line up HD channels with SD equivalents. It just makes sense and then maybe, just maybe my wife would record the HD versions of our shows instead of the lousy SD ones. I mean, for example: Food Network is analog 39, yet the digital HD channel is mapped at 827 while TNT is 27 and 821 for TNTHD. WHY!. All the HD versions should be the same as SD with the 8 in front! DUH! Food should be 39 analog and 839 digital HD, TNT should be 27 analog and 827 digital HD, so on and so forth!!! Is this really that hard to implement or does TWC just like to keep things confusing and difficult?

Does Navigator at least offer any way to do this via menu or favorites?
Ben - They did something like you mentioned here at TWC Hawaii. The HD channels are the same number as the SD version preceded by a "1." So we have 4 digits for all channels. Example: HGTV is 0323 & the HD version is 1323. The fact that our division has done this would lead one to believe it may happen elsewhere. TWC-Oceanic has been fairly progressive compared to other cities - amazingly so. We had SDV since last October, call waiting, start-over for nearly 2 years. We also have SARA thankfully & hope they don't change it.

On TWC San Diego, all of the HD channels have the same number as their SD equivalent (if they have one) +700, with a few exceptions: the HD premiums (HBO, Cinemax, Showtime & Starz) are all in a line, from 700-703 (also tunable at numbers at the top of their respective SD digital tiers); TBS (SD channel 2, HD channel 712) and NatGeo (SD channel 114, HD channel 718). I can understand TBS, since they want to bunch the HD premiums up at the beginning of the "HD tier", but I have no idea what the deal was with NatGeo HD--there is no channel 714. Maybe they're saving 714 for an HD version of channel 14, which is the Home Shopping Network :D.

The same scheme is true of Cox San Diego as well: the HD channel number is the SD channel number +700, with a few odd exceptions.

The fact that our division has done this would lead one to believe it may happen elsewhere. TWC-Oceanic has been fairly progressive compared to other cities - amazingly so. We had SDV since last October, call waiting, start-over for nearly 2 years.

TW Oceanic is a test market. You get lots of features that will never appear elsewhere.

From 6/24/08:

BBB complaint filed this evening via the web as city hall and the Executive Customer Service haven't helped. Calls to the managers who freely give out their phone numbers but don't answer have not been returned. I've requested 10 months of credits (back to August 07). It's rebooted 5 times (3 today) since Friday when they replaced the box.

Jim

Calling the BBB finally got their attention. About 4 days after filing the complaint they came in, crawled all over my wiring and the amplifier down the street and finally found a problem, I believe (it's been a month) they adjusted something at the amplifier and fixed part of the wiring.

Of course, this being Navigator it rebooted 30 minutes later BUT I was watching closed captioning on an MDN box and that's a known issue so I let that one go (but I did report it). It did do one reboot during the day when I wasn't home but 2 reboots in one month with one of them a known issue with Navigator is WAY better than 2 or 3 within 30 minutes.

As soon as I see some minus signs on my bill I'll agree to close the incident with the BBB.

[Edit] forgot, they also replaced my 8300HDC with an 8300HD. Box number 8 if I remember right ...

Jim

I continue to hear about the HDMI handshake issues. Are there any solutions? My 8300hdc is set to only output 1080i but when the tv is turned on it switches to 480p and I have to go in and change it back. also the screen is no the correct size it's sort of horizontally squished compared to normal. Any way around this?

From 6/24/08:



Calling the BBB finally got their attention. About 4 days after filing the complaint they came in, crawled all over my wiring and the amplifier down the street and finally found a problem, I believe (it's been a month) they adjusted something at the amplifier and fixed part of the wiring.

Of course, this being Navigator it rebooted 30 minutes later BUT I was watching closed captioning on an MDN box and that's a known issue so I let that one go (but I did report it). It did do one reboot during the day when I wasn't home but 2 reboots in one month with one of them a known issue with Navigator is WAY better than 2 or 3 within 30 minutes.

As soon as I see some minus signs on my bill I'll agree to close the incident with the BBB.

[Edit] forgot, they also replaced my 8300HDC with an 8300HD. Box number 8 if I remember right ...

Jim

Glad you finally have a workable solution. Hope they give you some serious credit.

I continue to hear about the HDMI handshake issues. Are there any solutions? My 8300hdc is set to only output 1080i but when the tv is turned on it switches to 480p and I have to go in and change it back. also the screen is no the correct size it's sort of horizontally squished compared to normal. Any way around this?What version of firmware is on your HDC box? I had the resolution switching problem with the previous 2.4.9_3 version of the ODN Navigator software when using the HDMI port. When I received the 2.4.10_11 version update to Navigator, I tried the HDMI cable again and it seemed to work well, so I left it hooked up that way and haven't experienced it again. If you are on the old firmware still, I would try hooking up the TV with component cables until you receive the update.

Pushing some combination of the Aspect (#) button on the remote along with whatever picture size adjustments your TV has should get you the correct screen aspect ratio.

BTW, can anyone tell me how to do a "warm" boot with the SA8300HDC box? Is unplugging the power the only way to reboot it, or is there a keystroke method using the buttons on the box? I tried holding the power button down for 30 seconds but that didn't work.

Thx,
TT

BTW, can anyone tell me how to do a "warm" boot with the SA8300HDC box? Is unplugging the power the only way to reboot it, or is there a keystroke method using the buttons on the box? I tried holding the power button down for 30 seconds but that didn't work.


On the box, hold down vol- and vol+ and press the info button on the left side.

This evening the box has lost all guide data for all the on demand channels and also TBS and TBS HD.

I wonder if they are all sharing the same multiplex?

Either way, nice one Time Warner. Luckily I'm not recording TBS tonight.

It's official. Even with the box 'on' it has still failed to record a scheduled series program. Tonight's CBS Evening News failed to record, and resulted in the 'STB unable to record program' error in the log.

It happened once last week too, also to CBS Evening News, but my mom was visiting and I wasn't certain that the box hadn't been turned 'off' the night before. But today, I'm 100% certain the box was 'on' when the recording failed.

Dammit. I was really hoping the recording failure problem was solved with this workaround, but I guess not. I don't care how many HD channels TWC is going to be adding in the coming months, if they can't get Navigator DVR to be 100% reliable, I'm gonna be gone by the time the new fall season starts.

This evening the box has lost all guide data for all the on demand channels and also TBS and TBS HD.

I wonder if they are all sharing the same multiplex?

Either way, nice one Time Warner. Luckily I'm not recording TBS tonight.

Same here in Cary.

Jim

For the second time today. (Confirmed by others in the Metro-Milwaukee area)

Today the grid is fine but the program guide when you bring up Find Shows, doesn't bring up anything. All categories show NONE. Here in Milwaukee, they are testing digital simulcasting where a few duplicate analog tier numbers have channels that show up in show searches, but not in the Guide. For example, TCM shows as Channel 60, and a test channel (I think 1880) in Guide searches. Only about 4 channels currently have Digital Simulcast. The other duplicate channels in the 1000's do not show anything, (i.e channel not available, try again later) when they are selected in a search.

National Navigator users can restore missing channels or guide data with a box reboot manually, or wait for a reboot cycle, which seems to restore the data. This may be a part of the SDV transition process and there may be some new data going through that Navigator may still be getting used to receiving.

Any other users experiencing this type of behavior?

Jack

I have Brighthouse Networks which is a division or partner of TWC and my SA8300 HD-DVR just got updated to Navigator. I HATE IT. FF and RW are slower, plus when you hit play it goes like 2 minutes back from where you hit play. Series recordings are all screwy. Like others just posted no info or shows are listed for TBS. Isnt progress wonderful?:rolleyes:

BTW I am in central Florida.

I would like to apologize for getting a few facts screwed up. Apparently, going through AXIOM's diagnostics (the diagnostics that show up when you press VOL- and VOL+ on the cable box, and then when the message light turns on you press CH+) showed me that DAVIC, not DOCSIS Set-top Gateway, was the two-way protocol in use. My best guess now about why ODN is faster than MDN when changing the day in the guide is that ODN caches the guide data from the carousel, knowing that there is enough memory to do so. MDN has to run on all the legacy boxes, so must use many memory minimization tricks. One of these tricks is to keep only a day or two's worth of guide data in memory and discard the rest, only to read it again should the user desire further days. By contrast, Passport Echo could assume that it was running on at least an Explorer 8000, and therefore saved guide data the user went through. As far as I can remember, Passport (the non-DVR version) acted like MDN in its handling of guide data because it was designed to run on at least a Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000.

In short, Navigator currently uses DAVIC and not DOCSIS Set-top Gateway, at least in Cary, NC.

I have a repeatable defect that I was wondering if others could confirm....to see this is very simple.

When I move forward through the day in the Guide, a strange thing happens when I hit 3:30 PM. As soon as I get to 3:30, all the data in the Guide from 3:30 on goes blank, and then after about 7 to 10 seconds it fills in again.

Once the data has reappeared it seems to “stick” in that I can go back to earlier in the day and move forward through 3:30 and it doesn’t seem to disappear a second time.

If I page forward to the next day, I can repeat the same problem for 3:30 PM that day, and the next day, and so on.

Anyone else seeing this? I'm on Navigator 2.4.1-107 on an HD box, TW in San Diego.

I have a repeatable defect that I was wondering if others could confirm....to see this is very simple.

When I move forward through the day in the Guide, a strange thing happens when I hit 3:30 PM. As soon as I get to 3:30, all the data in the Guide from 3:30 on goes blank, and then after about 7 to 10 seconds it fills in again.

Once the data has reappeared it seems to “stick” in that I can go back to earlier in the day and move forward through 3:30 and it doesn’t seem to disappear a second time.

If I page forward to the next day, I can repeat the same problem for 3:30 PM that day, and the next day, and so on.

Anyone else seeing this? I'm on Navigator 2.4.1-107 on an HD box, TW in San Diego.

This just sounds like a typical "loading data" from the cable head-end issue where at 3:30 the sever data gets updated. Is your issue related to AM or PM cycles (or both?) Does the same thing always happen when you are say right at 2:30 in the grid and than go to 3:30?

I would say if the functionality aspect of Navigator is OK, and you are not getting excessive rebooting several times a day I wouldn't worry about it. For reference, what make and model box number do you have?

Jack

I have Brighthouse Networks which is a division or partner of TWC and my SA8300 HD-DVR just got updated to Navigator. I HATE IT. FF and RW are slower, plus when you hit play it goes like 2 minutes back from where you hit play. Isn't progress wonderful?:rolleyes:



No, not quite. Hitting the PLAY button after hitting REW jumps you forward about half a minute at the <<3 speed, down to about 14 seconds at the <<2 speed and about 7 seconds at the << speed. It's mirroring the "jump back" function of the FF button, which is necessary and appropriate there. A simple mistake and an easy one to fix. I figured that out months ago and posted it here. The workaround is to try to train yourself to hit the PAUSE button before you hit PLAY again. Sucks, and you shouldn't have to do it, but TWC evidently doesn't want to pay a programmer for the 10 minutes (assuming he also makes a coffee run) it would take to fix it. :rolleyes:

No, not quite. Hitting the PLAY button after hitting REW jumps you forward about half a minute at the <<3 speed, down to about 14 seconds at the <<2 speed and about 7 seconds at the << speed. It's mirroring the "jump back" function of the FF button, which is necessary and appropriate there. A simple mistake and an easy one to fix. I figured that out months ago and posted it here. The workaround is to try to train yourself to hit the PAUSE button before you hit PLAY again. Sucks, and you shouldn't have to do it, but TWC evidently doesn't want to pay a programmer for the 10 minutes (assuming he also makes a coffee run) it would take to fix it. :rolleyes:
Ahh ok I'll try the pause button trick. And yeah I did exagerate the time. But it does seem slower on the FF than the passport was. Theres also a lag when I hit day+ in the guide. Oh well I will just have to get used to it I guess.

TW Oceanic is a test market. You get lots of features that will never appear elsewhere.

I am in Greensboro NC on Sara 1.89.17.1. We have SDV,Startover,caller ID on TV,Quik Clips.In addition we have the Time Warner video store on demand with and amazing amount of titles.Which of these features are you lacking?

I am in Greensboro NC on Sara 1.89.17.1. We have SDV,Startover,caller ID on TV,Quik Clips.In addition we have the Time Warner video store on demand with and amazing amount of titles.Which of these features are you lacking?

In Milwaukee,

We don't have Start Over or Quick-Clips. We have Navigator for almost all if not all of TWC now in this area. I think Start Over is coming. However, I would like to see even better stability with the guide before anything else is rolled out. SDV is being rolled out here as is Digital Simulcasting.

Jack

Ahh ok I'll try the pause button trick. And yeah I did exagerate the time. But it does seem slower on the FF than the passport was.

You're not imagining it. Passport had a fourth gear for FF & REW that Navigator doesn't. It was twice as fast as the fastest Navigator speed. And if you hook up an expansion drive, you'll lose your ability to jump through the program in 15 minute chunks.

Wait 'till you find out the "instant replay" button only jumps you back 3 seconds instead of the advertised 8. Oh, you have a whole wonderful world of Navigator bugs and shortcomings waiting for you to discover!

You're not imagining it. Passport had a fourth gear for FF & REW that Navigator doesn't. It was twice as fast as the fastest Navigator speed. And if you hook up an expansion drive, you'll lose your ability to jump through the program in 15 minute chunks.

Wait 'till you find out the "instant replay" button only jumps you back 3 seconds instead of the advertised 8. Oh, you have a whole wonderful world of Navigator bugs and shortcomings waiting for you to discover!
LOL Yeah I also discovered that you cant do frame by frame advancement like you could with passport. Might be moving back up north and then i get to deal with comcrap. Talk about jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.

I am in Greensboro NC on Sara 1.89.17.1. We have SDV,Startover,caller ID on TV,Quik Clips.In addition we have the Time Warner video store on demand with and amazing amount of titles.Which of these features are you lacking?

Quick clips, Start Over, Video Store on Demand (whatever that is) and any significant moves to SDV. I'm not sure if CallerID is working yet since I don't get TW phone.

Now compare yourself to Oceanic. Did you get the Photo album feature or things like the interactive sports guide "SportsChoice" and the interactive Healthcare system?

http://ligos.com/images/sportschoice_sm2.jpg

This just sounds like a typical "loading data" from the cable head-end issue where at 3:30 the sever data gets updated. Is your issue related to AM or PM cycles (or both?) Does the same thing always happen when you are say right at 2:30 in the grid and than go to 3:30?

I would say if the functionality aspect of Navigator is OK, and you are not getting excessive rebooting several times a day I wouldn't worry about it. For reference, what make and model box number do you have?

Jack

Thanks for your reply.

It's consistent, 3:30 PM every day, and happens regardless, as far as I've been able to tell, of what time I start at in the guide that day (as long as it's before 3:30).

The part I forgot to mention is that the data for 3:30 and 4:00 PM are already showing fine in the Guide up until I hit 3:30, at which point the data blanks out 3:30 and 4:00, and then reappears unchanged after the long wait.

I'm not really "worried" about it per se, the SA8300HD is very stable these days - I'm just unhappy w/the experience...it's frustrating to wait up to 10 seconds every time I page through the currrent day's programming. If they have to do a data load, they should do it at midnight and cover the entire next day....

Still wondering if others are experiencing this as well. I have an SA8300HD (not HDC).

You're not imagining it. Passport had a fourth gear for FF & REW that Navigator doesn't. It was twice as fast as the fastest Navigator speed. And if you hook up an expansion drive, you'll lose your ability to jump through the program in 15 minute chunks.

Wait 'till you find out the "instant replay" button only jumps you back 3 seconds instead of the advertised 8. Oh, you have a whole wonderful world of Navigator bugs and shortcomings waiting for you to discover!

Maybe that Passport speed varied from community to community, because I remember from the AOD channel (Answers on Demand,) that there were only 3x speeds. In fact, I remember the video tutorial saying "Press 3x to go at the fastest speed." However, you are absolutely correct, Passport was about 2x as fast on its fastest speed setting.

For the instant replay button, my box SA8300HD goes back about 6 seconds. A little less go back than the 8 second feature for Navigator. But what TOTALLY SUCKS is the rewind and fast forward for VOD channels! On Navigator, the response time is not accurate at all. It will often jump ahead too far or not go back far enough and you have to do a little guessing game for about 5-10 seconds to find your place in a VOD movie or program. Now, for conventional DVR recording, the FF/RR has been fairly accurate.

Is slow motion speed on Navigator still to press the Play button 2x in quick sequence on the remote? There was some little trick to improve accuracy for stopping and playback using this feature, but I forgot what it was!

Jack

Is slow motion speed on Navigator still to press the Play button 2x in quick sequence on the remote? There was some little trick to improve accuracy for stopping and playback using this feature, but I forgot what it was!

Jack

Slow mo is easier w/Navigator...press once for play, press again while playing to go to slo-mo, once again to normal. No need to press quickly.

<snip>And if you hook up an expansion drive, you'll lose your ability to jump through the program in 15 minute chunks.

The 15 minute jump forwards and backwards does work w/Navigator and external drives, I assume depending on the version of Navigator installed. W/the last two versions of Navigator that I've had on my SA8300HD it has worked fine.

I have 2.4.1.107 now, and with whatever version was previous to that the jump was fully functional...