It will require a truck roll. Might have to have permission with your landlord if you have one. Also since it requires a truck roll may want to have your box swapped. The vans usually have some cable boxes.

snip snip snip ...

I guess that we may have to agree to disagree on the issue of which Navigator is better. Some customers like me value stability first. Speed is a great asset, but failing to get the job done in the first place renders speed useless. Random crashing and hardware failures will get me cranky enough to do a box swap. Momentary slowdowns only annoy me. Constant slowdowns get treated like a crash (reboot the cable box). Others tolerate crashing, but hate slow software. Some like SD-only customers with fast boxes can't explore the corner cases that will trip up MDN in HD, in which case MDN is the clear choice for them.

For me, with two boxes side by side, MDN has been more stable than ODN. In the last 3 to 4 weeks I've had no crashes with MDN, 3 with ODN. The 8300HDC is sitting on the floor with plenty of airspace for cooling. Also, in this area MDN is due another update (maybe tonight) to resolve the reboots due to guide issues.

Jim

Also, in this area MDN is due another update (maybe tonight) to resolve the reboots due to guide issues.

Jim

Do tell Jim...

snip snip snip ...


For me, with two boxes side by side, MDN has been more stable than ODN. In the last 3 to 4 weeks I've had no crashes with MDN, 3 with ODN. The 8300HDC is sitting on the floor with plenty of airspace for cooling. Also, in this area MDN is due another update (maybe tonight) to resolve the reboots due to guide issues.

Jim

If this fixes the guide issues and does not introduce any new critical bugs, my judgement will become that MDN is better than ODN. It is a shame that it took this long for MDN to become beta quality.

A critical bug in my opinion is one that crashes the box or causes data corruption under any scenario that any customer should be able to get to without cheat codes, to borrow a term from the video game world. The tricks needed to get to any of the diagnostics counts as cheat codes.

snip snip snip ...


For me, with two boxes side by side, MDN has been more stable than ODN. In the last 3 to 4 weeks I've had no crashes with MDN, 3 with ODN. The 8300HDC is sitting on the floor with plenty of airspace for cooling. Also, in this area MDN is due another update (maybe tonight) to resolve the reboots due to guide issues.

Jim

I can't say about MDN, as I never had one, but I can say that ODN crashes do not happen to everybody. I had an ODN box for over a year and while it is not fast by any means, it is not ridiculously slow, and it basically never crashed on me, (except dying overnight due to 2.4.9_3 + eSATA sleep mode issue untill I set it to record 24/7); it had no spontaneous reboots at all (unless they were late at night when nothing was recording, so I did not realize). My guess is that ODN is not unstable if both your box and your signal are solid, but not very tolerant of flakiness in either. I checked my signal level and it varied between -8 and -9. Then eSATA port got bad - stuff recorded on external drives (I tried 3 different ones) would hiccup on playback every couple of minutes. I got another 8300HDC box and hooked it up where the old one was, while hooking up the old one to the signal split one more time (hence losing another 3.5db); I wanted to keep the old one for a few days until I finished watching stuff recorded there and keep recording shows until I was convinced the new box was not a lemon. The old box rebooted spontaneously while recording (first time ever), and it was not even on (I just saw the display change to "Ait" and the recording was split in two with about 5 minutes missing). I seriously doubt that the box suddenly got bad, and since it was moved out in the open from being in the enclosed space, it was definitely not due to heat, so it is very likely that it did not like the signal level; of course, it should just stop recording when signal level is bad, not crash. The new box has not crashed on me yet (it's been a couple of weeks), nor has it skipped a recording.
Also, from what I've seen, 2.4.10_11 basically got rid of all the bugs that affect the way I use it (you may be doing stuff it does not like, I don't know).

Of course, some of the missing features are so basic (and at least to me seemingly very easy to do) that not having them feels like a bug:
- The cable company DVRs are the only ones I know that do not have 30 second skip. Stand alone DVRs as well as satelite ones have it. I know this one is a political decision, but this bugs me the most.
- I doubt there's another commercial DVR software that does not provide for manual recording. You can do it even on a VCR.
- They restrict the numeric values to a small list, instead of allowing you to enter the exact value that you want. For example, can not set a series to keep one episode, or two, or 10; must choose a number between 3 and 7, or Keep All. Padding is restricted to a few predetermined numbers of minutes. You want to pad a show hour and a half - sorry, no go, closest provided are one hour and two hours.
- Setting shows with bad guide data to record only new episodes can not work right, it records a lot of repeats; that's understandable, and I don't consider that a bug (or should I say it is a bug in the data provider, not ODN), but how about giving me, as a workaround, a way to restrict series to a particular time of the day (considering that MDN has this, it should not be that complicated).

Here's an example of a simple situation, probably not that uncommon, that could easily be solved but currently has no solution: I have two 1 hour shows I want to record from 8-9 on Mondays, and I'd also like to record Monday Night Football that starts at 8:30. It is perfectly understandable that I can't get all three fully recorded with the two tuners, but it is not so understandable that there is no way whatsoever to set the box in advance to record MNF from 9 onwards. I understand the lack of the fancy solution - when resolving conflict, it could ask you to record as much of the victim show as possible - but there are simple things that would work: negative padding of 30 minutes, for example - ODN does have negative padding, but largest negative padding is 15 minutes (why?); manual recording would work, too. Instead, I have to physically be there at 9 to start the recording.

Of course, some of the missing features are so basic (and at least to me seemingly very easy to do) that not having them feels like a bug:
- The cable company DVRs are the only ones I know that do not have 30 second skip. Stand alone DVRs as well as satelite ones have it. I know this one is a political decision, but this bugs me the most.

You'll never see 30 second skip on a leased cable company DVR. It's no big deal. I perfectly understand why it's been removed (at the request of the studios, no doubt). At the very least, since they're paying the freight, the advertisers that support the current broadcast model have a right for their ads to at least be glimpsed as you FF through them, so that if one interests you, you can back up and watch it. I do that all the time. As long as FF is not disabled during commercials, that seems a reasonable compromise to me. With a software-based 30 sec skip, you wouldn't even partially see the ad.

And, if it bothers you that much, you can always program a macro to give you a 30 second skip if you have a relatively advanced universal remote that allows for step-delays (I have an MX-800). I created a 30 sec and a 3 minute skip with mine. You know what? I found I used them so infrequently that I rededicated those buttons to macros that get me in and out of closed captioning with one press. Much more useful.

Here's an example of a simple situation, probably not that uncommon, that could easily be solved but currently has no solution: I have two 1 hour shows I want to record from 8-9 on Mondays, and I'd also like to record Monday Night Football that starts at 8:30. It is perfectly understandable that I can't get all three fully recorded with the two tuners, but it is not so understandable that there is no way whatsoever to set the box in advance to record MNF from 9 onwards. I understand the lack of the fancy solution - when resolving conflict, it could ask you to record as much of the victim show as possible - but there are simple things that would work: negative padding of 30 minutes, for example - ODN does have negative padding, but largest negative padding is 15 minutes (why?); manual recording would work, too. Instead, I have to physically be there at 9 to start the recording.

Can't you just set up the recording for MNF anyways? If you do and it's the third option, I think you can just choose to have the two tuners record the shows from 8 to 9 (it will ask you that), and then have the MNF recording go "gray" with the circle/slash symbol in your scheduled recording list. To get rid of it, you have to delete it twice; otherwise, it stays "gray". (disclaimer: I know Passport worked that way; not sure about Navigator) Then, when the tuners are freed up at 9:00, won't it just automatically start recording MNF from there? Try it, it might work.

You'll never see 30 second skip on a leased cable company DVR. It's no big deal. I perfectly understand why it's been removed (at the request of the studios, no doubt). At the very least, since they're paying the freight, the advertisers that support the current broadcast model have a right for their ads to at least be glimpsed as you FF through them, so that if one interests you, you can back up and watch it. I do that all the time. As long as FF is not disabled during commercials, that seems a reasonable compromise to me. With a software-based 30 sec skip, you wouldn't even partially see the ad.

And, if it bothers you that much, you can always program a macro to give you a 30 second skip if you have a relatively advanced universal remote that allows for step-delays (I have an MX-800). I created a 30 sec and a 3 minute skip with mine. You know what? I found I used them so infrequently that I rededicated those buttons to macros that get me in and out of closed captioning with one press. Much more useful.


I know it is due to content prvider pressure, but how come satelite companies do it?
Besides, it is not that important to me to use it to skip commercials (although it is much better than FF, for skipping commercials FF is servicable); my main need for it is to skip to the next play during a football game (if the play that just finished is not interesting enough to see it again several times from other angles, which is large majority of the plays). If you hit it as soon as a play is over, you end up just as they are lining up for the next play. This used to allow me to watch games in about 45 minutes without skipping a single play. Also, I did it a while back as a macro, but it did not work reliably (sometimes it would be 30 seconds, sometimes 25, sometimes 35), and with the new, larger jump-back it would be even worse. Also, macro was taking several seconds to execute, then it would jump far ahead (spoiler for the next play). Not anywhere close to the instant 30 second skip. Now it takes me over 2 hours to watch a game.


Can't you just set up the recording for MNF anyways? If you do and it's the third option, I think you can just choose to have the two tuners record the shows from 8 to 9 (it will ask you that), and then have the MNF recording go "gray" with the circle/slash symbol in your scheduled recording list. To get rid of it, you have to delete it twice; otherwise, it stays "gray". (disclaimer: I know Passport worked that way; not sure about Navigator) Then, when the tuners are freed up at 9:00, won't it just automatically start recording MNF from there? Try it, it might work.

Haven't tried it, I assumed that it would just not record MNF in that case. I always assume no inteligence in Navigator, (doing that I was wrong only once), so I'd be amazed if that worked. Will try next Monday, just in case. Thanks.

Haven't tried it, I assumed that it would just not record MNF in that case. I always assume no inteligence in Navigator, (doing that I was wrong only once), so I'd be amazed if that worked. Will try next Monday, just in case. Thanks.It's not going to work. Once the conflict has been resolved, the losing program is canceled, not rescheduled for later.

snip snip snip ...
For me, with two boxes side by side, MDN has been more stable than ODN. In the last 3 to 4 weeks I've had no crashes with MDN, 3 with ODN. The 8300HDC is sitting on the floor with plenty of airspace for cooling. Also, in this area MDN is due another update (maybe tonight) to resolve the reboots due to guide issues.

Jim

Do tell Jim...

Email from the TWC manager - "We are going to launch a fix during this coming week to MDN boxes only. It deals with the reboot issues due to the guide data. I believe it will hit the DVRs around Wednesday."

As of this morning I haven't received it yet.

Jim

It will require a truck roll. Might have to have permission with your landlord if you have one. Also since it requires a truck roll may want to have your box swapped. The vans usually have some cable boxes.

i guess i had one two many splitter or a bad one.

i fixed the foxhd channel, by reducing/changing the splitter. this also "fixed" the guide, so now its showing that a show is scheduled to record.

but the box did "forget" to record a show last night. :(

now I have to figure out how to get cable to my beyond tv setup. hmmm...

so now it is set up the way twc set it up. one splitter goes to the cable modem and then to another splitter that takes it to my two boxes.

I replaced the 2nd 2 way splitter with a 3 way splitter to connect my 2 pc tuners.

ihmmm.

;)

Why in HE** cannot TWC make MDN and ODN have the same features.It's stupid to have 2 versions of Navigator with one lacking important features. sara 1.89.24.1MDN boxes have less memory (older box) so the code has to be written different. Many talk about faster speed, probably written more efficiently (problem with cheap memory these days - bloated software). Also, I believe one is Java based and the other different. Wish I could answer fully, but saw you got no comment yet so filling in some gaps. Basically two different memory sizes and processing ability. /Dan

MDN boxes have less memory (older box) so the code has to be written different. Many talk about faster speed, probably written more efficiently (problem with cheap memory these days - bloated software). Also, I believe one is Java based and the other different. Wish I could answer fully, but saw you got no comment yet so filling in some gaps. Basically two different memory sizes and processing ability. /DanI think that the feature that he's talking about is the "Air Time" filter in series recordings (you can say "only record this when it airs at 8:00 PM", which is one way to deal with series that are present on a channel as both the current season and syndicated reruns in non-primetime slots). MDN has this feature; ODN does not (ODN stands for "OCAP Digital Navigator" and is built on the Open Cable Application Platform, a Java profile). The "C" boxes which run ODN have twice the memory as the legacy boxes running MDN, yet the Air Time filter is a feature of MDN, so the memory disparity doesn't explain it. I'm not aware of anything that ODN does which MDN does not, though there may be.

I think that the feature that he's talking about is the "Air Time" filter in series recordings (you can say "only record this when it airs at 8:00 PM", which is one way to deal with series that are present on a channel as both the current season and syndicated reruns in non-primetime slots). MDN has this feature; ODN does not (ODN stands for "OCAP Digital Navigator" and is built on the Open Cable Application Platform, a Java profile). The "C" boxes which run ODN have twice the memory as the legacy boxes running MDN, yet the Air Time filter is a feature of MDN, so the memory disparity doesn't explain it. I'm not aware of anything that ODN does which MDN does not, though there may be.

The one thing ODN does that MDN does not is allow you to select the border color that is drawn around 4x3 programs drawn on a 16x9 screen.

The one thing ODN does that MDN does not is allow you to select the border color that is drawn around 4x3 programs drawn on a 16x9 screen.Which, by the way, is mostly worthless. If you select "Medium" or "Light" borders, you still get a thin black area between the borders and the picture. Since one of the major reasons for choosing this option is to address image burn-in, those who have that concern are not at all helped by it.

Which, by the way, is mostly worthless. If you select "Medium" or "Light" borders, you still get a thin black area between the borders and the picture. Since one of the major reasons for choosing this option is to address image burn-in, those who have that concern are not at all helped by it.

That black column on the left of the screen is usually an artifact of the MPEG-2 equipment TWC uses at least in my area. On most cable network channels like CNBC, CNN, the SciFi Channel, or truTV, this black column does not exist except when TWC inserts its own commercials into the program during the commercials. On local SD feeds, this bar appears, so it is likely that TWC is redigitizing and recompressing analog channels that it gets in analog. However, it sometimes appears on SD subchannels compressed by TV stations in my area as well. The only cable networks this black column stays up on are channels that require local customization like The Weather Channel or the TV Guide Channel.

Of course, the equipment used in Dublin, OH could be completely different, so it is possible that what I say is trash in your area.

I think that the feature that he's talking about is the "Air Time" filter in series recordings (you can say "only record this when it airs at 8:00 PM", which is one way to deal with series that are present on a channel as both the current season and syndicated reruns in non-primetime slots). MDN has this feature; ODN does not (ODN stands for "OCAP Digital Navigator" and is built on the Open Cable Application Platform, a Java profile). The "C" boxes which run ODN have twice the memory as the legacy boxes running MDN, yet the Air Time filter is a feature of MDN, so the memory disparity doesn't explain it. I'm not aware of anything that ODN does which MDN does not, though there may be.

Your correct Mike.It makes no sense in why MSD has time slot recording and priority management and odn does not.I can understand differences in software but why not write in the same features for both.It cannot be that hard.IT MAKES NO SENSE!

Sara may not be the greatest ig.However as clunky and devoid of search features as it is.It does have several features over Navigator.It has both time lot recording of this day this time slot.It has any day this time slot.Plus it has manual recording with many options.The priority system is same as Navigator ODN last recording added has first priority.I have leaned to manage recordings this way but a tivo or passport priority systemwould be great.SARA is dead reliable unlike pass versions of Navigator.We will get Navigator here soon but will miss some of my Sara options. SARA 1.89.24.1

Sara may not be the greatest ig.However as clunky and devoid of search features as it is.It does have several features over Navigator.It has both time lot recording of this day this time slot.It has any day this time slot.Plus it has manual recording with many options.The priority system is same as Navigator ODN last recording added has first priority.I have leaned to manage recordings this way but a tivo or passport priority systemwould be great.SARA is dead reliable unlike pass versions of Navigator.We will get Navigator here soon but will miss some of my Sara options. SARA 1.89.24.1

I'm awaiting the first in depth review/comparison of Navigator to SARA from you. I'd like to hear how whatever version they dump on you stacks up against your current version of SARA.

I'm awaiting the first in depth review/comparison of Navigator to SARA from you. I'd like to hear how whatever version they dump on you stacks up against your current version of SARA.

Will post a review as soon as I get Navigator and play with it.

Your correct Mike.It makes no sense in why MSD has time slot recording and priority management and odn does not.I can understand differences in software but why not write in the same features for both.It cannot be that hard.IT MAKES NO SENSE!

"anything is easy when you don't have to do it"

That black column on the left of the screen is usually an artifact of the MPEG-2 equipment TWC uses at least in my area. On most cable network channels like CNBC, CNN, the SciFi Channel, or truTV, this black column does not exist except when TWC inserts its own commercials into the program during the commercials. On local SD feeds, this bar appears, so it is likely that TWC is redigitizing and recompressing analog channels that it gets in analog. However, it sometimes appears on SD subchannels compressed by TV stations in my area as well. The only cable networks this black column stays up on are channels that require local customization like The Weather Channel or the TV Guide Channel.

Of course, the equipment used in Dublin, OH could be completely different, so it is possible that what I say is trash in your area.In my area it occurs on about 75% of the analog SD channels, but there doesn't seem to be a pattern to it. E.g., MSNBC and CNBC have the black column; CNN and MTV don't. All digital SD channels that I've checked do not have the black column. On-demand usually has a very thin stripe. Whatever the cause, it ain't right.

It makes no sense in why MSD has time slot recording and priority management and odn does not.So, ODN also doesn't have the ability to sort series recording requests by priority? I wonder how it decides which two of three overlapping requests to record?

So, ODN also doesn't have the ability to sort series recording requests by priority? I wonder how it decides which two of three overlapping requests to record?The most recent program to be set up gets the priority.

The most recent program to be set up gets the priority.

Yes, and for other types of conflicts:

1.) PPV or VOD movies take precedents as first priority

2.) Series recording are next

3.) Followed by the most recent scheduled program

(Note that this set-up assumes a recording conflict of multiple recordings in the same time spot.) Your still supposed to get a message about a conflict, but if you are not home to resolve the conflict, steps 1-3 are supposed to be how Navigator deals with this issue.

Jack

Yes, and for other types of conflicts:

1.) PPV or VOD movies take precedents as first priority



Does it warn you if you are watching something on VOD and two recordings are coming up?

xnappo

What I was interested in knowing is what happens when 3 series recordings conflict. This is usually due to unusual scheduling of one of them, and has happened to me recently. TiVo keeps series recording requests (which it calls "Season Passes") in a priority ordered list that you can freely change the order of, so it knows which two of three conflicting programs you'd rather record, and MDN implements the exact same mechanism.

phousley seems to imply that ODN keeps them in a fixed priority order, by date of series recording request creation, the most recently created request being the number one priority. So, you could take request #25 and make it #1 by deleting it and re-creating it.

phousley seems to imply that ODN keeps them in a fixed priority order, by date of series recording request creation, the most recently created request being the number one priority. So, you could take request #25 and make it #1 by deleting it and re-creating it.

I have ODN on a SA8300HDC and what you have described is exactly how it works. I really miss being able to rearrange series priority that was available on my SA8300HD before the hard drive went bad.

Hopefully this will be added in a software upgrade.

I have ODN on a SA8300HDC and what you have described is exactly how it works. I really miss being able to rearrange series priority that was available on my SA8300HD before the hard drive went bad.

Hopefully this will be added in a software upgrade.

Sara works in this way also except it does not take ppv or on demand showings into account.Both ODN and SARA suck in priority management.

Does it warn you if you are watching something on VOD and two recordings are coming up?

xnappo

Not sure,

Also those three steps I mentioned above on how it's supposed to deal with the conflicts are what I read in the FAQ on the Navigator sites when it was released. I haven't actually "tested" how it behaves with those conflicts, nor do I know if the MDN or OCAP boxes are better at this type of conflict resolution management. I do know:

1.) Often what Navigator is supposed to do and actually does are two completely different things.

2.) The best workaround that I have found is if you go to your DVR List and something just doesn't look right with what you have scheduled to record, if you delete the content that looks strange, and than after it is deleted, you make a new recording of what you just deleted, that is supposed to take top priority.

3.) I also don't think you can prioritize a recording in Navigator by moving a show to the top of a list if "Save Until Space is Needed" is selected. (Default on my box is "Do Not Delete.")

Also keep in mind that I record everything individually, and do not use the Series Manager.

4.) Navigator is still a pile of $hit concerning how if deals with or understands what constitutes a "new" recording! Has anyone seen improvements with regard to this #4 complaint?

Jack

how do you get into the diag screens in navigator?

how do you get into the diag screens in navigator?

Hold on select until a message light pops up. Then press the down button on the remote. That can get you into the diagnostic menu. For ODN will say diAG. MDN just shows the message light. The MDN diagnostic menu is far more complex than ODN.

4.) Navigator is still a pile of $hit concerning how if deals with or understands what constitutes a "new" recording! Has anyone seen improvements with regard to this #4 complaint?This topic seems to pop up often. For my use, setting up a series to record only "new" episodes works perfectly. In fact, almost all my recording is done in this manner. It gets all the episodes I want, without duplications, and seems to be smart enough to choose alternate airings to avoid conflicts. Its main weakness is that it won't work for shows that have no episode name: aka the Colbert phenomena. But I think most of these problems will be solved when specific time slot recording is implemented.

Maybe ODN was intended for SARA users who are used to crappy features and MDN was made for Passport users.Any way you shake it Time Warner has a massive cluster frack. SARA 1.89.24.1

This topic seems to pop up often. For my use, setting up a series to record only "new" episodes works perfectly. In fact, almost all my recording is done in this manner. It gets all the episodes I want, without duplications, and seems to be smart enough to choose alternate airings to avoid conflicts.

Doesn't work for me. It only works if I specify one airing, otherwise I'm getting repeats of the first airing of a new show incorrectly tagged as "new" all the time.

Using Law & Order: SVU as an example shows where control of series recording isn't as good as before with Passport. I setup my 8300HD to record the Saturday night rebroadcast version which is listed as new in the guide. It also recorded the Tuesday night showing. :mad:

setting up a series to record only "new" episodes works perfectly. In fact, almost all my recording is done in this manner. It gets all the episodes I want, without duplications, and seems to be smart enough to choose alternate airings to avoid conflicts.

series recording works fine for me too. i can think of only one instance where it recorded shows that werent new. during the off season it still wanted to record the reruns of big band theory. have never had it record duplicates of the same show.
but i ant never seen it be smart enough to resolve conflicts on its own. at least once a day i check to see if there are any conflicts.

series recording works fine for me too. i can think of only one instance where it recorded shows that werent new.

You can see if your guide still badly tags shows as new for yourself.

Go to Entourage on HBO HD tonight at 10pm and Entourage on Tuesday at 11pm. The latter is just a rebroadcast but it's still tagged as new.

Compareing Navigator to SARA I have a bit of experience with.My wife and I own a small beach house with a on dvr pioneer box with Navigator and we have dvr boxes wit SARA in Greensboro.The Navigator box at the beach has only rebooted once while I was watchingit.Ilike the apperance of Navigator better than SARA.If only you could change colors like PASSPORT and SARA.(Blue gets boreing after a bit.The search feature on Navigator is light years ahead of SARA.Not as good as Passport but if you have been stuck with SARA like me you will love it.Like the fact you can put favorites first in the guide.Makes channel surfing easier.Wish TWC would add keyword search like the old Passport software had.The pip window vanishes during search and going to other features.(I mean it's there but goes blank)When searching takes a bit to load data in but gives more info than SARA.Not haveing a DVR Navigator box yet cannot report on it.From what I have seen so far it is not up to Pasport but beats SARA.(not talking bout overall reliability but just way guides are set up)When I get a NAVIGATOR DVR will post a Navigator-SARA comparison.Hope this gives a bit of insight. Sara 1.89.24.1

Go to Entourage on HBO HD tonight at 10pm and Entourage on Tuesday at 11pm. The latter is just a rebroadcast but it's still tagged as new.

twcnyc: brooklyn here.

i got the hdc box on tuesday, and started to set up series recordings. the setting were keep all and record only new.

the box listed entourage and califonication as scheduled recordings even though i knew they were rebroadcast. this had me worried, but i no longer am. fingers crossed.

the box has tonights airings listed, but not the ones later in the week.

and as far as "fixing" conflicts, i have a couple of things recording at 9. in the past (passport) i would fix this manually. being that sho and hbo would rebroadcast, it was easy to find another time.

anyhow, it looks like the box did it for me today with true blood. i dont remember fixing it, but instead of recording the 9pm one, it will record the 11:30 airing.

on a negative note, the box must of rebooted during a recording. there were two linting for a startrek movie. the first one ended short, he second one started a couple of minutes later.

one thing this box/spftware really needs is to show the length of a recording. in passport it would tell you that the recording was short.

ooh, the pip in the hdc/navigator is crap.

only one size?
too close to the middle of the screen.
not transparent like passport.

geez.

oh and to the person who found the 15min skip option, god bless you.

So Navigator is smart enought to catch later showings if there is a conflict?If it oes this then it is a cool feature SARA does not have. SARA 1.89.24.1

ooh, the pip in the hdc/navigator is crap.

only one size?
too close to the middle of the screen.
not transparent like passport.

geez.

oh and to the person who found the 15min skip option, god bless you.

The PIP being too close to the center of the screen is a hardware limitation of the 8300HDC, not Navigator's fault. The 8300HDC could only draw internally-generated graphics on a 640x480 grid, which is a 4x3 grid, not a 16x9 grid. The later 85xxHDC cable boxes Cisco is coming out can use a 960x540 grid which should solve that problem if Navigator is programmed to take advantage of it.

I agree that the PIP is only one size sucks. However, the PIP never was transparent in Passport Echo in the versions licensed by Time Warner Cable. PIP totally overwrote the programming under it. Were you using another cable system that used a newer version of Passport Echo?

So Navigator is smart enought to catch later showings if there is a conflict?If it oes this then it is a cool feature SARA does not have. SARA 1.89.24.1


it looks like it depends on the order you have them in series recording.

like i said, it looks like navigator moved the recording of true blood to a later time because of a conflict.

but later this week (friday), it told me it cant record nbc's life even though one of the conflicting shows is a usa show that has a later time showing.

Life is low on the list, while starter wife was just added. It looks like starter wife has priority.

put once i selected resolve conflict to not record starter wife, navigator moved starter wife to the later showing.

now if there was a way to move your series recording around, i would put all the "cable" channels on the bottom.

The PIP being too close to the center of the screen is a hardware limitation of the 8300HDC, not Navigator's fault. The 8300HDC could only draw internally-generated graphics on a 640x480 grid, which is a 4x3 grid, not a 16x9 grid. The later 85xxHDC cable boxes Cisco is coming out can use a 960x540 grid which should solve that problem if Navigator is programmed to take advantage of it.

I agree that the PIP is only one size sucks. However, the PIP never was transparent in Passport Echo in the versions licensed by Time Warner Cable. PIP totally overwrote the programming under it. Were you using another cable system that used a newer version of Passport Echo?


thanks for the info. i guess thats why all the menus are in sd mode. do we know when the new boxes would be rolled out?

as for pip, when i got my 8300 sd box and attached to my Sony CRT, two things i noticed right away. you can still view (by viewing i mean the pick still played. in older models it would be a static image) it while fast forwarding and rewinding. the second thing I notice was that you could still see through it a bit. it wasnt a black whole.

I dont see this anymore with either the 8300 or 8300hdc.

I dont think i was imagining it though.

One other thing about PIP. you cant swap with out the pip being active? uhg!!!

Hey can anyone confirm if Navigator has this incredible annoyance like SARA:

Last night I ordered No Mercy, but had a bunch of scheduled recordings. So I had to cancel two of them to free up the tuner for the PPV. When I cancel them (these are season passes - IE: Record all new this day/time) it wipes out the entire season pass. WTF! No option for cancel just this recording, you HAVE to cancel all.

I'm seriously looking at Dish just for the ability to record three programs at once! What stinks is, I like DirecTV's offering and programming packages, but their equipment is lame. I guess I'll hold out for the DirecTivo unless Navigator drops before then and I can't stand it. Sorry about the rant...

Hey can anyone confirm if Navigator has this incredible annoyance like SARA:

Last night I ordered No Mercy, but had a bunch of scheduled recordings. So I had to cancel two of them to free up the tuner for the PPV. When I cancel them (these are season passes - IE: Record all new this day/time) it wipes out the entire season pass. WTF! No option for cancel just this recording, you HAVE to cancel all.

I'm seriously looking at Dish just for the ability to record three programs at once! What stinks is, I like DirecTV's offering and programming packages, but their equipment is lame. I guess I'll hold out for the DirecTivo unless Navigator drops before then and I can't stand it. Sorry about the rant...

I've had no problems cancelling one scheduled recording of a series with Navigator.

I've had no problems cancelling one scheduled recording of a series with Navigator.

go to Guide & find the program at the day/time, it should be in red. Select it, you will have options, select "cancel this recording". It will leave the rest of the series recording in tact

it looks like it depends on the order you have them in series recording.

like i said, it looks like navigator moved the recording of true blood to a later time because of a conflict.

but later this week (friday), it told me it cant record nbc's life even though one of the conflicting shows is a usa show that has a later time showing.

Life is low on the list, while starter wife was just added. It looks like starter wife has priority.

put once i selected resolve conflict to not record starter wife, navigator moved starter wife to the later showing.

now if there was a way to move your series recording around, i would put all the "cable" channels on the bottom.

It looks to me that the way it works is something like this: suppose you have a conflict with the shows 1, 2 and 3 (in order of priority). If 3 has a later showing, it will be automatically moved to avoid conflict. If it does not, it loses out and will not be recorded. Whether or not shows 1 and 2 have later showings does not matter, they will not be automatically moved.

As for changing priority, until they implement that (I wouldn't hold my breath) probably the easiest thing to do is to order series the way you want on a piece of paper, then delete them all from the guide and re-add them in the order you have on the paper. The problem with that is if you want to keep around as lower priority a series that is not showing right now; you can't add it if it is not showing within a week (they should really add that feature), and if you add it later, it will have the highest priority.

Hey can anyone confirm if Navigator has this incredible annoyance like SARA:

Last night I ordered No Mercy, but had a bunch of scheduled recordings. So I had to cancel two of them to free up the tuner for the PPV. When I cancel them (these are season passes - IE: Record all new this day/time) it wipes out the entire season pass. WTF! No option for cancel just this recording, you HAVE to cancel all.

I'm seriously looking at Dish just for the ability to record three programs at once! What stinks is, I like DirecTV's offering and programming packages, but their equipment is lame. I guess I'll hold out for the DirecTivo unless Navigator drops before then and I can't stand it. Sorry about the rant...

Direct TV has just reached an agreement with TiVo. You may want to hold off until they have the new D-TiVo units. Rumor has it that it will have some TiVo to go features.

Direct TV has just reached an agreement with TiVo. You may want to hold off until they have the new D-TiVo units. Rumor has it that it will have some TiVo to go features.

I'm completely aware of this and it is one reason I'm holding off for the time being. The deal breaker will be if the Tivo unit lacks OTA input, DLB, PIP and the ability to record 3 at once (2 sat/1tuner or vice versa). These are the features that have me leaning toward Dish. DirecTV needs a receiver that can compete with the 722. They have the programming options I like, all they need is a fully functional DVR.

Here's something just to annoy everyone like me that's stuck with Navigator.

ActiveVideo Networks (formerly ICTV) will announce today that it has deployed its platform with Oceanic Time Warner Cable in Hawaii. The platform, which features "intelligent video streaming" technology that allows interactive Web content to be delivered on TV via any digital set-top box, is powering a range of interactive services for the operator, including interactive TV games from TAG Networks (including Tetris, Sudoku and various branded children's games); home shopping from HSN (including the ability to use Web-based search and navigation to locate merchandise from HSN's online inventory and to then make purchases--all via the remote control); and news, sports and children's versions of P:Mosaic, a personalizable navigation system that ActiveVideo bills as allowing end-users to view, customize and navigate through their favorite channels "at a single glance." In addition, the platform is being used by Oceanic Time Warner Cable to power Web-based channels featuring content specific to the Hawaiian market.

The deployment follows a system-wide trial of ActiveVideo's technologies and services during the 2008 Beijing Olympics. The trial presented Oceanic subscribers with a mosaic application that offered multiple channels of broadcast and cable Olympics programming, as well as Olympics news, photo albums, schedules and other content acquired from Web RSS feeds.

Chances of large scale deployment? Probably close to zero based on past analysis.

Here's something just to annoy everyone like me that's stuck with Navigator.



Chances of large scale deployment? Probably close to zero based on past analysis.

Ok, I like the idea about customizing the channels, but when are these providers going to realize that most people don't want all this extra crap like games and shopping! I have a PC for that, I have a TV to watch programming! Concentrate on delivering a working, stable guide/DVR on par with what satellite offers and get the programming people want.

You can see if your guide still badly tags shows as new for yourself.

Go to Entourage on HBO HD tonight at 10pm and Entourage on Tuesday at 11pm. The latter is just a rebroadcast but it's still tagged as new.

it still tags several shows that i record as NEW but for some reason it doesnt record the reruns that are tagged as new. i only had the one instance of that happening . it was in the off season.
californication, trueblood are just a couple i can think of that i series record and the reruns are taged as NEW. but it only records the first airing .

woke this morning to an updated Navigator. MDN v2.4.4-9 in Statesville NC from 2.4.1-9.
i think i recall reading about this update earlier in the thread so its probably nothing new for most here but it's new for us. only difference i can see is different color on the user interface.

woke this morning to an updated Navigator. MDN v2.4.4-9 in Statesville NC from 2.4.1-9.
i think i recall reading about this update earlier in the thread so its probably nothing new for most here but it's new for us. only difference i can see is different color on the user interface.

Same here in Charlotte, the only other change I noticed was the ridiculous prompts when you delete a show seem to be gone. I do like the new color scheme, but to see that without any fixes for the various annoyances makes me wonder if anyone at TWC cares the slightest bit about customer concerns.

Firmware update today here in Cincinnati. SDB is now showing as 'enabled' AND registered. Page 21 of the diag screen now lists a SDB server : port. This is exciting as more HD shows could be on the way...

Using 'Find Shows' on Holidat shows, I saw a listing for SOAPSDV at 1801. There are no 1800's in the guide, but there are a handful of SDV channels there now. ABC, WGN, STYLE, SOAP, CSPAN. Most showing a blue 'not available' screen though.

--

Cincinnati, OH TWC
SA8300HD
MDN 2.4.9-108, (Mt Huron 8-19-2008)
E-SATA 400gb (with glitching)

Same here in Charlotte, the only other change I noticed was the ridiculous prompts when you delete a show seem to be gone. I do like the new color scheme, but to see that without any fixes for the various annoyances makes me wonder if anyone at TWC cares the slightest bit about customer concerns.

Can anyone post a screenshot of this and any noted differences? There was talk of new high-res graphics Navigator being released in San Diego later this month. We are supposed to be getting Start Over for Navigator soon here in Wisconsin, I think sometime before the year ends if not sooner.

Jack

Same here in Charlotte, the only other change I noticed was the ridiculous prompts when you delete a show seem to be gone. I do like the new color scheme, but to see that without any fixes for the various annoyances makes me wonder if anyone at TWC cares the slightest bit about customer concerns.



please explain: "the only other change I noticed was the ridiculous prompts when you delete a show seem to be gone."

does it just delete them now?

The 1700s and 1800s have various SDV channels. None appear to be HD or new channels though. The 1850's have Enhanced TV functionality. When you visit 1854 (MTV-TEMP), you see "Press Enhanced Press [Select]". Once pressing Select, you see a PIP-sized window listing a menu of Quick clips which contains current videos to watch.

Here is a video of this in action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nk_yA3XmsHg

--

Cincinnati, OH TWC
SA8300HD
MDN 2.4.9-108, (Mt Huron 8-19-2008)
E-SATA 400gb (with glitching)

Can anyone post a screenshot of this and any noted differences? There was talk of new high-res graphics Navigator being released in San Diego later this month. We are supposed to be getting Start Over for Navigator soon here in Wisconsin, I think sometime before the year ends if not sooner.

Jack

i'll see if i can get a screen shot later but i'll try and describe it to you for now.
basically the color scheme for the guide is a grey box (or silver). the guide and channel info is a darker color of blue than previous and the channel and show you are looking at is highlighted in yellow. the channel and program text is white. i dont see anything i would call high rez. and its still 4x3 letterboxed.

it does appear that maybe the reboots while i'm using closed captioning is fixed. but i'll have to use it more to be sure. also the guide no longer informs me that it is loading data. guide info just goes blank and it retains the program info in the upper left of the last program highlighted.

i'll see if i can get a screen shot later but i'll try and describe it to you for now.
basically the color scheme for the guide is a grey box (or silver). the guide and channel info is a darker color of blue than previous and the channel and show you are looking at is highlighted in yellow. the channel and program text is white. i dont see anything i would call high rez. and its still 4x3 letterboxed.

it does appear that maybe the reboots while i'm using closed captioning is fixed. but i'll have to use it more to be sure. also the guide no longer informs me that it is loading data. guide info just goes blank and it retains the program info in the upper left of the last program highlighted.

I'm in Charlotte as well, the color scheme is the primary noticeable difference. I tried turning on CC for a bad recording of Terminator (picture was horrible for about 10 minutes of the show). After viewing I tried to navigate using the guide to another channel and it rebooted. It's the first failure/reboot I've had in a while. I turned CC back off and haven't had another issue.

Ok, I like the idea about customizing the channels, but when are these providers going to realize that most people don't want all this extra crap like games and shopping! I have a PC for that, I have a TV to watch programming! Concentrate on delivering a working, stable guide/DVR on par with what satellite offers and get the programming people want.
My Charlotte 8300 has a setting to group all your favorite channels together in the guide. I use favorites for the kids stations to make it easier for them to find their shows and not have to memorize channels or accidentally stumble on shows they shouldn't see. What is annoying is that the favorite button in Passport used to jump from on Fav to the next in the guide and not change the channel like Mystro.

Will Navigator start a recording late if another recording runs an extra minute or two? Example- both tuners recording shows from 9p-10p, but one show is in the guide as ending at 10:01p. If I want to record two shows at 10p, one will show a conflict and not be recorded at all instead of just starting a minute late when the second tuner is free. Any way around this other than manual intervention? Passport would always just start up when it could (sometimes annoyingly though if I killed a recording I didn't want). I was glad to see Navigator does restart a recording after a failure/reboot.

I'n on a roll, one more question- is there a way to record by keyword like in Passport? I used to record any show with "Clemson" in the information but can't find any way to do it in Navigator.

I'm in Charlotte as well, the color scheme is the primary noticeable difference. I tried turning on CC for a bad recording of Terminator (picture was horrible for about 10 minutes of the show). After viewing I tried to navigate using the guide to another channel and it rebooted. It's the first failure/reboot I've had in a while. I turned CC back off and haven't had another issue.

i used to get reboots 9 out of 10 times i used CC on a recorded program. it used to reboot at the beginning of a show and after a reboot would play the recording fine with CC. then if i started watching another recording with CC it would reboot again. my work around was to turn off CC, start the program, then turn CC back on. this worked and i dont see any reboots using this method. however, after the update i watched 4 recordings in a row using CC and didn't have any reboots. so I'm not having the same reboot with CC that i was before. but i need to use it some more before i can say if my problem is fixed or just reduced in frequency.

BTW I'm sure you read in the Charlotte forum that the messed up vid on terminator seemed to be system wide in the Charlotte service area. there were posts from me in Statesville, several in Charlotte and one in Shelby. the audio was fine though for me as well as the others who posted about it in that thread.

What is annoying is that the favorite button in Passport used to jump from on Fav to the next in the guide and not change the channel like Mystro.

and what even stranger is that while the remote for the box will tune to the channel while in the guide when you push fav. my harmony remote does not. it jumps to the channel in the guide without changing the channel just like passport used to.

and what even stranger is that while the remote for the box will tune to the channel while in the guide when you push fav. my harmony remote does not. it jumps to the channel in the guide without changing the channel just like passport used to.
Interesting. How about the ability to jump to the quarter hour (15 minute segments) during playback? Waiting for triple speed to make it to the end of show is such an unnecessary hassle.

Interesting. How about the ability to jump to the quarter hour (15 minute segments) during playback? Waiting for triple speed to make it to the end of show is such an unnecessary hassle.Press and hold FF.

Just had an upgrade to 108.

No GUI differences as far as I can see. Went through the usual requested fixes like the rewind jump forward, instant keyword search, 14 day guide etc.

One thing I don't remember seeing before is the "block by title" option in Parental Controls. I rarely look there however.

The only thing that is noticeable now - SDV appears to by working in diagnostics. Previously the box could not communicate with the server but now appears it is receiving information as it should.

Press and hold FF.

Thank You! Thank You! I haven't searched this thread, but is there an accurate online guide/manual? I'm assuming not as often as they are changing things, but it wouldn't hurt to ask.

woke this morning to an updated Navigator. MDN v2.4.4-9 in Statesville NC from 2.4.1-9.
i think i recall reading about this update earlier in the thread so its probably nothing new for most here but it's new for us. only difference i can see is different color on the user interface.

Interesting, my 8300HD got upgraded to 2.4.1-108 (Aug 19, 2008) last evening in Raleigh, NC.

Just had an upgrade to 108.


I made two psts about SDV in 2.4.9-108 in Cinci, OH recently in this thread. My 2nd post has a Youtube clip of playing with the new, unlisted SDV channels.

Check if you can access channel 1854. I can access it here. I had a friend check in another part of town and he was able to see 1854 as well.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14826727#post14826727

--

Cincinnati, OH TWC
SA8300HD
MDN 2.4.9-108, (Mt Huron 8-19-2008)
E-SATA 400gb (with glitching)

Check if you can access channel 1854. I can access it here. I had a friend check in another part of town and he was able to see 1854 as well.


Channel allocations vary between markets so your channel numbers don't work for me. Same as features. No enhanced viewing here either.

Channel allocations vary between markets so your channel numbers don't work for me. Same as features. No enhanced viewing here either.

I was hoping you were in Southern Ohio as well based on the 108 upgrade.

I found the SDV temp channels by using Find Shows. When I search for "Beverly Hills, 90201", I see 'SDV' channel listings that aren't listed on the guide.

I was hoping you were in Southern Ohio as well based on the 108 upgrade.

That's why location info being easy to see is important in this thread. TWC services, upgrade schedules and feature deployment can vary by state, city and even neighboring towns.

Add your location to your profile and it will appear underneath your user name.

Will Navigator start a recording late if another recording runs an extra minute or two? Example- both tuners recording shows from 9p-10p, but one show is in the guide as ending at 10:01p. If I want to record two shows at 10p, one will show a conflict and not be recorded at all instead of just starting a minute late when the second tuner is free. Any way around this other than manual intervention? ...

You can set negative padding on one of the shows. It is hidden after normal padding, i.e. just keep going, and after 2 hour positive padding, here comes 1 minute negative padding.

Two things to mention. I recently put in a complaint with the better business bureau describing the many problems with Navigator and requesting credit for all DVR payments since Navigator was put into use here. I had to talk to several people (some of whom were not friendlyand even hung up on me) but in the end I got the credit I ask for and made it very clear to the person that issued the credit that I did not consider the matter closed and I would continue to call and request credits each month until Navitor reached a level of usability that I consider to be at least close to what I had with Passport.

Second thing, Is anyone else having trouble with the ODN version rebooting while watching NBC? I know this was happening during the Olympics under certain conditions. It seems to happen when I am recording on one channel and trying to watch NBC with the other tuner. Two weeks in a row it has rebooted (several times) while recording Amazing Race and trying to watch SNF.

Change that second one, it seems to be rebooting about every ten minutes while watching NBC Football in HD and I am no longer recording anything. This is very bad.

Two things to mention. I recently put in a complaint with the better business bureau describing the many problems with Navigator and requesting credit for all DVR payments since Navigator was put into use here. I had to talk to several people (some of whom were not friendlyand even hung up on me) but in the end I got the credit I ask for and made it very clear to the person that issued the credit that I did not consider the matter closed and I would continue to call and request credits each month until Navitor reached a level of usability that I consider to be at least close to what I had with Passport.

Second thing, Is anyone else having trouble with the ODN version rebooting while watching NBC? I know this was happening during the Olympics under certain conditions. It seems to happen when I am recording on one channel and trying to watch NBC with the other tuner. Two weeks in a row it has rebooted (several times) while recording Amazing Race and trying to watch SNF.

Change that second one, it seems to be rebooting about every ten minutes while watching NBC Football in HD and I am no longer recording anything. This is very bad.

I thought it was the MDN version (the version for boxes without CableCARDs) that had the trouble with the Olympics. Are you sure that you are using ODN, which is used only on boxes with CableCARDs? The only problems I had with ODN and the Olympics was due to a misconfigured SDV server at the head end causing the temporary Olympics channels to fail.

If you are using MDN, I think that a new version, MDN 2.4.1-108, was supposed to fix the bug that affected the Olympics and football games both in HD (this bug did not affect SDTV decoding): these shows were so long in the guide that they would crash MDN 2.4.1-107 if they were HD shows.

This bug did not affect ODN in my experience.

Could you please verify which version of Navigator you are using? I want to know if this is a new bug in ODN, if you have an old version of MDN that is known to have this problem (version MDN 2.4.1-107), or if we are playing another round of buggy musical chairs with the newer version of MDN (version MDN 2.4.1-108). To explain the buggy musical chairs analogy, the previous version of MDN before 2.4.1-107, MDN 2.4.1-92, crashed in certain situations involving combining closed captioning, DVR functionality, and HDTV. MDN 2.4.1-107 fixed this bug, but introduced the bug where long HD shows like football games or the Olympics would crash MDN 2.4.1-107. MDN 2.4.1-108 is supposed to fix this bug.

I noticed that one time when I was trying to rewind a show I was just watching while another show was being recorded in the background as a scheduled series recording, but when I rewound the show I was watching (which is not the scheduled recording), the box froze up. Turning the box off (actually putting it in standby), turning it back on, and then changing the channel was required to get the box running normally. I then had to change the channel back to get to the show I wanted to watch.

Has anyone else seen this bug?

Two things to mention. I recently put in a complaint with the better business bureau describing the many problems with Navigator and requesting credit for all DVR payments since Navigator was put into use here. I had to talk to several people (some of whom were not friendlyand even hung up on me) but in the end I got the credit I ask for and made it very clear to the person that issued the credit that I did not consider the matter closed and I would continue to call and request credits each month until Navitor reached a level of usability that I consider to be at least close to what I had with Passport.

Second thing, Is anyone else having trouble with the ODN version rebooting while watching NBC? I know this was happening during the Olympics under certain conditions. It seems to happen when I am recording on one channel and trying to watch NBC with the other tuner. Two weeks in a row it has rebooted (several times) while recording Amazing Race and trying to watch SNF.

Change that second one, it seems to be rebooting about every ten minutes while watching NBC Football in HD and I am no longer recording anything. This is very bad.

Rebooting on channel 217 in the Raleigh area seems to be not uncommon. I'm not having problems any more since my trip to the BBB and I now have an MDN box. A friend with ODN had a reboot during the debates while watching 217.

Rebooting on channel 217 in the Raleigh area seems to be not uncommon. I'm not having problems any more since my trip to the BBB and I now have an MDN box. A friend with ODN had a reboot during the debates while watching 217.

Has anyone PM'd NBC17ENG about this? He may be able to help get to the bottom of it.

Has anyone PM'd NBC17ENG about this? He may be able to help get to the bottom of it.

I did back in January and he pointed to possible signal strength issues and some sort of signal problem was the root of my problems. Another post somewhere over the last year mentioned certain frequencies could be problematic if there were signal problems, possibly 217 is in that range.

Rebooting on channel 217 in the Raleigh area seems to be not uncommon. I'm not having problems any more since my trip to the BBB and I now have an MDN box. A friend with ODN had a reboot during the debates while watching 217.

Try measuring the signal strength with MDN's diagnostics or the AXIOM diagnostics if you have ODN. I once noticed image corruption on 217 and found out that my box's circuits were being blown out at 12 dBmV. A truck roll was used to remove the amplified splitter because it was TWC property, so it could get back into circulation for a house that needs it.

EDIT: In my earlier post, I am not trying to insult anyone. Either we have stumbled across an ODN bug that I have not found, or we have a signal strength issue. For some reason, 217 in the Raleigh-Durham-Fayetteville market seems to be the channel that has more issues than other channels.

Two things to mention. I recently put in a complaint with the better business bureau describing the many problems with Navigator and requesting credit for all DVR payments since Navigator was put into use here. I had to talk to several people (some of whom were not friendlyand even hung up on me) but in the end I got the credit I ask for and made it very clear to the person that issued the credit that I did not consider the matter closed and I would continue to call and request credits each month until Navitor reached a level of usability that I consider to be at least close to what I had with Passport.

Second thing, Is anyone else having trouble with the ODN version rebooting while watching NBC? I know this was happening during the Olympics under certain conditions. It seems to happen when I am recording on one channel and trying to watch NBC with the other tuner. Two weeks in a row it has rebooted (several times) while recording Amazing Race and trying to watch SNF.

Change that second one, it seems to be rebooting about every ten minutes while watching NBC Football in HD and I am no longer recording anything. This is very bad.

Thanks for all the comments, yes I am on ODN (SA8240HDC). My signal stregnth should be good. The tech was out here a couple of weeks ago at the insistance of TWC and found things to be great so hopefully it is still good. Seems odd to me but I don't know much about cable transmission. Shouldn't TWC be able to correct/change the signal for NBC (217 locally) so that it works before they send it down the line. For that matter, shouldn't they send out all the channels with the same volume????

For that matter, shouldn't they send out all the channels with the same volume????

They can't do that because of the different satellite frequency settings, but somewhere under Settings for Audio there is a way to stabilize the volume.

I have MDN-Navigator on an 8300SA DVR.

Press A for Settings

Go to Settings

Horizontal Scroll to Audio Press Select

The Audio Output (I think that's what it is called) should be set to Narrow to stabilize all listening levels. If you scroll down on the left side of the screen in Audio Settings, you will find a right screen eventually that says, Normal, Narrow, and Wide. If it is set at Normal or Wide, press Select and change it to Narrow. To stabilize listening levels across channels, set to to Narrow.

Jack

Looks like MDN 2.4.1-108 is spreading across the country.

Someone on the local San Diego, CA HDTV board reported 2.4.1-108 is now on the TWC San Diego system.

Apparently a bug fix release. Nothing was mentioned about any changes to the ODN version.

I haven't gotten MDN 2.4.1-108. I might have posted this thread by accident since I think it's coming soon. I might won't get it since it mainly is for DVR's. Only MDN box I have is the 3250HD.

Try measuring the signal strength with MDN's diagnostics or the AXIOM diagnostics if you have ODN. I once noticed image corruption on 217 and found out that my box's circuits were being blown out at 12 dBmV. A truck roll was used to remove the amplified splitter because it was TWC property, so it could get back into circulation for a house that needs it.

EDIT: In my earlier post, I am not trying to insult anyone. Either we have stumbled across an ODN bug that I have not found, or we have a signal strength issue. For some reason, 217 in the Raleigh-Durham-Fayetteville market seems to be the channel that has more issues than other channels.

Turned on NBC17 HD at 6pm and watched the local news until 6:30pm, when NBC Nightly News came on the MDN box rebooted within a few minutes. At 6:39pm it rebooted again so I switched to the ODN box, leaving both boxes on 217. The MDN box rebooted a total of 5 times and now that 217 is back to local programming it's behaving again. This is the same box that has been solid for the last 4 or 5 weeks. I'm thinking this is an NBC HD problem.

How do you get to the ODN diagnostics that show the signal strength? MDN shows a power level of -4 dBmV and SNR of 36 dB on one tuner, -3 and 35 on the other.

Jim

Turned on NBC17 HD at 6pm and watched the local news until 6:30pm, when NBC Nightly News came on the MDN box rebooted within a few minutes. At 6:39pm it rebooted again so I switched to the ODN box, leaving both boxes on 217. The MDN box rebooted a total of 5 times and now that 217 is back to local programming it's behaving again. This is the same box that has been solid for the last 4 or 5 weeks. I'm thinking this is an NBC HD problem.

How do you get to the ODN diagnostics that show the signal strength? MDN shows a power level of -4 dBmV and SNR of 36 dB on one tuner, -3 and 35 on the other.

Jim

On the front of the cable box, hold down Vol + and - until the mail icon appears, then press Ch +.

Those signal readings look good. The closer you are to 0 dBmv the better, but the box should operate fine within +/-7 or 8 dBmv. And the bare minimum SNR is 32dB, the higher the better.

On the front of the cable box, hold down Vol + and - until the mail icon appears, then press Ch +.

Those signal readings look good. The closer you are to 0 dBmv the better, but the box should operate fine within +/-7 or 8 dBmv. And the bare minimum SNR is 32dB, the higher the better.

Thanks, I checked and the readings on the ODN box are the same.

Jim

I noticed that one time when I was trying to rewind a show I was just watching while another show was being recorded in the background as a scheduled series recording, but when I rewound the show I was watching (which is not the scheduled recording), the box froze up. Turning the box off (actually putting it in standby), turning it back on, and then changing the channel was required to get the box running normally. I then had to change the channel back to get to the show I wanted to watch.

Has anyone else seen this bug?


happened to me last night. infuriated me. i did the same sequence to fix it.

also makes me mad that the video on versus HD flickers in an out some times. I'm trying to watch a hockey game, for crying out loud.

Has anyone heard if Navigator is going to get keyword search or this ay this time recording.Would love to have those features as well as manual recording. Sara 1.89.24.1

You can search by words and by titles.

I saw some screen shot of Navigator beyond the few that TWC has up on websites. I must say it looks impressive compared to SARA. The graphics look crisp and clear, reminiscent of the menu on a DP301 from Dish Network. I like how the channel logos appear on the banner making it easier when surfing. If they could only get the reliability up to snuff. I really want to see how an 8550 handles Navigator. That would be the acid test because it should be more than able based on the hardware.

I saw some screen shot of Navigator beyond the few that TWC has up on websites. I must say it looks impressive compared to SARA. The graphics look crisp and clear, reminiscent of the menu on a DP301 from Dish Network. I like how the channel logos appear on the banner making it easier when surfing. If they could only get the reliability up to snuff. I really want to see how an 8550 handles Navigator. That would be the acid test because it should be more than able based on the hardware.


Ben and HDTV fan, (or anyone)

Can you provide a Gif or Jpeg image of these screens? Also, what is the version number?

Jack

Looks like MDN 2.4.1-108 is spreading across the country.

Someone on the local San Diego, CA HDTV board reported 2.4.1-108 is now on the TWC San Diego system.

Apparently a bug fix release. Nothing was mentioned about any changes to the ODN version.

Salisbury, NC - I got -108 sometime in the last couple of days. I have SA8300HD connected via HDMI to a HK AVR-254. Previously I would set the 8300 to 1080I output only. Every time I would turn the receiver off then on, the 8300 would revert to outputing all resolutions. Now the 1080i only stays selected in the 8300. This is good, the receiver would blink several times when the 8300 changed resoultions.

So it appears their was some change to the 8300's HDMI code, as I said: for the good!

Ben and HDTV fan, (or anyone)

Can you provide a Gif or Jpeg image of these screens? Also, what is the version number?

Jack

I'll see if I can happen across them again. I have no idea what version number. I was just googling Navigator to see what the latest was.

I just finished watching the presidential debate that I had recorded earlier this evening. I recorded an HD version and intended to watch using closed captions. My box crashed twice in the first few minutes of the debate. After the second re-boot, I turned off closed captions, and watched the rest of the debate without crashes.

I did confirm that I have been "upgraded" to MDN 2.4.1-108 on my 8300 HD. No other shows were recording at the time. Looks like we may have reaquired a bug that was eliminated in 2.4.1-107.

Has anyone else noticed this problem?

Can someone post some screenshots of the latest Navigator?

xnappo

I just finished watching the presidential debate that I had recorded earlier this evening. I recorded an HD version and intended to watch using closed captions. My box crashed twice in the first few minutes of the debate. After the second re-boot, I turned off closed captions, and watched the rest of the debate without crashes.

I did confirm that I have been "upgraded" to MDN 2.4.1-108 on my 8300 HD. No other shows were recording at the time. Looks like we may have reaquired a bug that was eliminated in 2.4.1-107.

Has anyone else noticed this problem?

Were you watching it on an NBC station?

Can someone post some screenshots of the latest Navigator?

xnappo

sorry i intended to do this earlier. this is MDN 2.4.4-9

Were you watching it on an NBC station?
No, it was a local ABC station, KMBC.

sorry i intended to do this earlier. this is MDN 2.4.4-9

Still no wide screen guide???

Still no wide screen guide???


I think that will be an option for HD users whenever the new 8500 HD Cisco DVR boxes hit the market. I don't think any areas have the new 8500 Cisco DVR yet. Not sure on new updates for non-DVR boxes.

This new Navigator does look nicer in terms of graphics. But have any new FUNCTIONS been implemented? (The critically needed Keyboard Keyword Search, and an expanded Sports Category list.) These features are what TWC customers really want to see.

Users with this new version, what if any improvements have you seen? We don't have this version in Milwaukee Wisconsin, yet.

Jack

Still no wide screen guide???

The box cannot do widescreen graphics.

xnappo

I think that will be an option for HD users whenever the new 8500 HD Cisco DVR boxes hit the market. I don't think any areas have the new 8500 Cisco DVR yet. Not sure on new updates for non-DVR boxes.

This new Navigator does look nicer in terms of graphics. But have any new FUNCTIONS been implemented? (The critically needed Keyboard Keyword Search, and an expanded Sports Category list.) These features are what TWC customers really want to see.

Users with this new version, what if any improvements have you seen? We don't have this version in Milwaukee Wisconsin, yet.

Jack

Supposedly Samsung and Cisco are working with TWC to offer next generation boxes.

Users with this new version, what if any improvements have you seen?
Jack

other than the color of the user interface i see no difference in functionality.

but the first day of the update i didn't get any of my usual reboots while using closed captioning. i thought , great they fixed it. however the next day and ever since i haven't been able to get closed captioning to work at all.
closed captioning still works on my other non dvr boxes that didn't get the update.

Well, SARA missed recordings this week. Knight Rider didn't record and that's another gripe about SARA. You have no idea it missed a recording or why. I thought maybe it was pre-empted or something. Apparently it wasn't flagged as "NEW". Ok, so I've missed a total of three recordings thus far due to the apparent crap guide data. Does Navigator at least tell you why it didn't record?

Does Navigator at least tell you why it didn't record?Yes--Navigator has a Recording Log. You hit the LIST button and scroll over to it with the RIGHT ARROW key.

TiVo has this--I can't recall whether Passport Echo does or not, but I don't think so, which would make it one of Navigator's rare improvements over Passport.

Ok, so I've missed a total of three recordings thus far due to the apparent crap guide data. Does Navigator at least tell you why it didn't record?

It will tell you if a show was canceled or user deleted but more often than not if it misses recordings because it doesn't feel like it, you'll just get the pointless message "The settop was unable to record the program."

Which happens to me quite frequently.

It could be related to when Navigator decides not to populate a channel with guide data, leaving blank space for an entire channel in the listing.

does anyone know when the new cisco boxes will start getting rolled out?

does time warner cable publish when the software updates will happen for a specific area?

re knight rider. i think the box was just trying to save you from watching that awful show. it cres. :) j/k

but seriously, i dont think it was the box, but nbc.

my navigator box wasnt going to record it either. nbc added a saturday showing. at first, this showing was listed as a new episode, even th description was of a new epsode. navigator scheduled and recorded it. as it turns out, it wasnt a new episode, but the same epi they showed last week.

for navigator it made sence that it didnt record this weeks airing, it thought it was a repeat. i noticed it and manually scheduled a recording.

so, i guess who ever updated the guide for saturday screwed up.

being a new box to me, i check these thing more often than the passport box.

so far the navigator box has not recorded one show, and that was in the first couple of days i got it.

the box seems to be more finicky (sp). a couple of times it has stopped recoding a show when i was doing other stuff on the box.

but even with a couple of issues that i have with the box, im stinking of swapping out my other standard def box to an hd box. maybe i can get a non c for now.

sorry for the long post.

humm.. closed captioning is working again today

humm.. closed captioning is working again today
I did not have any problem with closed captioning last night, but I was watching a scripted show. Maybe what happened to my debate was a fluke?

Well, SARA missed recordings this week. Knight Rider didn't record and that's another gripe about SARA. You have no idea it missed a recording or why. I thought maybe it was pre-empted or something. Apparently it wasn't flagged as "NEW". Ok, so I've missed a total of three recordings thus far due to the apparent crap guide data. Does Navigator at least tell you why it didn't record?
Knight rider recorded ok here & it was flagged as NEW. That seems to be the problem when a recording is missed. Suggest that every couple days you scan your IPG for your favorite shows to see if they are highlighted to record. Sara is very reliable but it will miss a recording without the NEW flag in the IPG. Having a report of shows that weren't recorded is pretty worthless IMO. Better to head off the miss than try to find out why it WAS missed.

Also, beware of delayed IPG loading - you may inadvertently record a 3rd program in a time slot but you won't get the warning because the IPG hasn't loaded yet for that upcoming day. When the IPG does load and it finds a 3rd recording, it will bump one of your older ones without warning. What's worse is it will bump the entire season pass of that show - not just that ep. Always good to check the day before or morning of any critical shows you don't want to miss.

sorry i intended to do this earlier. this is MDN 2.4.4-9

Those screen shots remind me of something that drives me nuts on a daily basis...why do the UI designers (assuming TW has any) continue w/the huge grey border on the left side of those screens...then there is the over-done "do not delete" icon taking up much more space than needed, etc.

All that stuff takes away space from what we really want/need to see, the show titles.

Sorry - had to rant - I feel like TW just doesn't have the right people to get this stuff honed like it should be.

Those screen shots remind me of something that drives me nuts on a daily basis...why do the UI designers (assuming TW has any) continue w/the huge grey border on the left side of those screens...then there is the over-done "do not delete" icon taking up much more space than needed, etc.

Just one more aspect that TWC has displayed that shows they do not have the skill to pull of designing their own guide. I remember in my initial feedback to them after being struck down by Nav I told them the color palette was stupid UI visual design. At least they added the yellow now.

Still, every time I look at the stupid List menu and see that section title and stupidly large icon taking up so much space it just reminds of a bad design job. There's more than enough room for an extra show in the list if they fixed that title area.

I did not have any problem with closed captioning last night, but I was watching a scripted show. Maybe what happened to my debate was a fluke?

If the closed captioning bug is in MDN 2.4.1-108 is the same one that doomed MDN 2.4.1-92 in my house and forced me to get an ODN box, then what causes the problem is the amount of text on the screen. Scripted shows generally do a good job of keeping the screen clear of excessive closed captioning clutter, while the typist is just trying to keep up with the show and has no time to clean up the clutter in a live show. Try turning the closed captioning on in a news program to really test this out.

However, I do not have an MDN box anymore and cannot verify this.

I just finished watching the presidential debate that I had recorded earlier this evening. I recorded an HD version and intended to watch using closed captions. My box crashed twice in the first few minutes of the debate. After the second re-boot, I turned off closed captions, and watched the rest of the debate without crashes.

I did confirm that I have been "upgraded" to MDN 2.4.1-108 on my 8300 HD. No other shows were recording at the time. Looks like we may have reaquired a bug that was eliminated in 2.4.1-107.

Has anyone else noticed this problem?

If the closed captioning bug is in MDN 2.4.1-108 is the same one that doomed MDN 2.4.1-92 in my house and forced me to get an ODN box, then what causes the problem is the amount of text on the screen. Scripted shows generally do a good job of keeping the screen clear of excessive closed captioning clutter, while the typist is just trying to keep up with the show and has no time to clean up the clutter in a live show. Try turning the closed captioning on in a news program to really test this out.

However, I do not have an MDN box anymore and cannot verify this.

jnv11's earlier description of how to re-create the problem is specifically why I think the closed captioning of the debate caused the problem. I got another spontaneous reboot tonight, watching my recorded ABC's 20/20 in HD with closed captioning on. It took longer, almost 20 minutes into the program, but when the box rebooted, it took almost 15 minutes to get the clock back on the 8300 HD. And then it would not turn on. That took yet another reboot by holding the power on button for 10 seconds. After the second reboot, I turned closed captioning off and watched the rest of 20/20.

I am becoming convinced that we have our bug back!

Those screen shots remind me of something that drives me nuts on a daily basis...why do the UI designers (assuming TW has any) continue w/the huge grey border on the left side of those screens...then there is the over-done "do not delete" icon taking up much more space than needed, etc.

All that stuff takes away space from what we really want/need to see, the show titles.

Sorry - had to rant - I feel like TW just doesn't have the right people to get this stuff honed like it should be.

I don't understand why some (most) of the lists move when you press the up/down and the selected item is in the middle of the screen but id you use the keyboard to key in a title and find a listing the selected item is at the top of the screen. TWC obviously isn't trying very hard on UI.

BTW, I went to the NC state fair Thursday afternoon and went to the TWC booth and gave them a piece of my mind. (No yelling, no cussing and I made it cear I was a long time customer who was very happy with things other then Navigator). After all these months with Navitor (15 at my house) the rep was still trying to tell me that the reason Navigator has problems in because they were so rushed by the OCAP laws and I should blame congress. I told him that excuse was valid for about three months in my book and they are at least a year behind where they need to be. Deaf ears I know but it felt good to vent a little.

...the reason Navigator has problems in because they were so rushed by the OCAP laws and I should blame congress.What in hell are the "OCAP laws"? Though they had to start buying boxes for lease which used CableCARDs for conditional access (last July), there was no requirement of which I'm aware that they create an OCAP implementation of their IPG on those boxes. They could have OCAP-capable configurations, run MDN on them and deployed OCAP at their leisure.

In any case, OCAP was not a factor when they launched MDN on legacy boxes in markets like Lincoln, NE nearly two years back.

What in hell are the "OCAP laws"? Though they had to start buying boxes for lease which used CableCARDs for conditional access (last July), there was no requirement of which I'm aware that they create an OCAP implementation of their IPG on those boxes. They could have OCAP-capable configurations, run MDN on them and deployed OCAP at their leisure.

In any case, OCAP was not a factor when they launched MDN on legacy boxes in markets like Lincoln, NE nearly two years back.

I agree with your call of BS. However, there are some valid reasons for deploying ODN on the CableCARD boxes. Here are the reasons I can think of. Note that these are speculation.

ODN is being deployed for us to beta so that when OCAP-capable TVs and third party set-top boxes arrive, TWC will not get flooded with calls complaining about ODN crashing their TVs and their own set top boxes.
MDN would be bloated up with code to manage a CableCARD and the code to manage integrated security if it had to run on CableCARD-based box. Since MDN has a much lower minimum hardware standards target than ODN, its programmers cannot waste lines of code on managing a CableCARD and hope to make the whole thing fit on the oldest Scientific Atlanta set top box ever deployed that is capable of decoding digital cable.
It is possible that Cisco might not have released the documentation for managing a CableCARD. Therefore Cisco locks in a revenue stream either for licenses for SARA or licenses for its AXIOM OCAP middleware.

I can understand the first and second ones. The third one is downright greedy, but is par for the course of monopolists screwing each other in the entertainment industry. Eventually, that screwing passes along to us.

Was there any reason why TWC did not yet put Keyword Searches in Navigator or an expanded sports list? It's not as if Passport had exclusive licenses on those features!

Jack

I agree with your call of BS. However, there are some valid reasons for deploying ODN on the CableCARD boxes. Here are the reasons I can think of. Note that these are speculation.

ODN is being deployed for us to beta so that when OCAP-capable TVs and third party set-top boxes arrive, TWC will not get flooded with calls complaining about ODN crashing their TVs and their own set top boxes.
MDN would be bloated up with code to manage a CableCARD and the code to manage integrated security if it had to run on CableCARD-based box. Since MDN has a much lower minimum hardware standards target than ODN, its programmers cannot waste lines of code on managing a CableCARD and hope to make the whole thing fit on the oldest Scientific Atlanta set top box ever deployed that is capable of decoding digital cable.
It is possible that Cisco might not have released the documentation for managing a CableCARD. Therefore Cisco locks in a revenue stream either for licenses for SARA or licenses for its AXIOM OCAP middleware.

I can understand the first and second ones. The third one is downright greedy, but is par for the course of monopolists screwing each other in the entertainment industry. Eventually, that screwing passes along to us.

The Pioneer boxes can run Navigator. I used to have one of those old Pioneer SD boxes. Navigator looked like DOS. Nice blue and silver background with DOS like text. Passport did run much better though.

does anyone know when the new cisco boxes will start getting rolled out?

does time warner cable publish when the software updates will happen for a specific area?

re knight rider. i think the box was just trying to save you from watching that awful show. it cres. :) j/k

but seriously, i dont think it was the box, but nbc.

my navigator box wasnt going to record it either. nbc added a saturday showing. at first, this showing was listed as a new episode, even th description was of a new epsode. navigator scheduled and recorded it. as it turns out, it wasnt a new episode, but the same epi they showed last week.

for navigator it made sence that it didnt record this weeks airing, it thought it was a repeat. i noticed it and manually scheduled a recording.

so, i guess who ever updated the guide for saturday screwed up.

being a new box to me, i check these thing more often than the passport box.

so far the navigator box has not recorded one show, and that was in the first couple of days i got it.

the box seems to be more finicky (sp). a couple of times it has stopped recoding a show when i was doing other stuff on the box.

but even with a couple of issues that i have with the box, im stinking of swapping out my other standard def box to an hd box. maybe i can get a non c for now.

sorry for the long post.

I have heard of Samsung providing next generation boxes.

I agree with your call of BS. However, there are some valid reasons for deploying ODN on the CableCARD boxes.I'm certainly not saying that there weren't valid reasons for deploying ODN. My point is that they all TWC's reasons and not attributable to the government.

I'm sorry, but I can't buy your reason #2. I've read the CableCARD specs and the host-side stuff is a fairly trivial, and MDN (or the version of PowerTV) could have been commisserately reduced by the removal of any code to handle proprietary communication with the network, now handled by software embedded in the CableCARDs.

I'm certainly not saying that there weren't valid reasons for deploying ODN. My point is that they all TWC's reasons and not attributable to the government.

I'm sorry, but I can't buy your reason #2. I've read the CableCARD specs and the host-side stuff is a fairly trivial, and MDN (or the version of PowerTV) could have been commisserately reduced by the removal of any code to handle proprietary communication with the network, now handled by software embedded in the CableCARDs.

What I meant by #2 was that if code size was important, the only way to have MDN for both legacy and CableCARD boxes is to fork MDN. One version would have only the code for handling the integrated security and the communications, while the other would have the code for handling a CableCARD and its communications. If it was not forked and had to handle both legacy boxes and CableCARD boxes, then the code for handling a CableCARD would be pure bloat for an integrated security box, and the code for handling integrated security would be pure bloat for a box with a CableCARD. With the way MDN handled the guide (e.g. it required a data load every time you scrolled the guide beyond tomorrow), it seems like it was designed to look as nice as possible but minimize RAM usage.

Your reason for removing the communications code for MDN and leaving that to the CableCARD would only work with this fork. If MDN could not be forked, code for both methods would bloat up the code for the reasons I mentioned above.

The government (meaning CONGRESS) expressed a requirement to facilitate
connection of user owned equipment. This was recently reiterated in the recent
(10-15-2008) FCC fines against TWC & COX:
http://www.fcc.gov/eb/Orders/Welcome.html

Note NAL & ORDERs cited the old CARTERPHONE decision as precedent wherein
phone companies were required to support connection of user owned phones,
answering machines and dial-up modems. Prior to this, MaBell was ONLY source:
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/technology/maney/2007-01-30-carterfone_x.htm

In order for user owned equipment to operate effectively with ANY cable
system in the U.S., there needs to be an agreed, standardized interface.
Note that direct connection of customer owned equipment to cable
facilitates a much simpler, single remote control device,
as well as integration of the controls for user and web-based video
on the device's HDD....at which point a PC is fully integrated with the DTV.

All of the major Cable companies proposed the interim one-way CableCARD
with OpenCable developed software standards and now bi-directional "tru2way"
(aka OCAP) as the approach to fulfill this "mobility and standard I/F" REQUIREMENT.

Hence OCAP is a mutually agreed upon, DERIVED REQUIREMENT.

A related Common Reliance REQUIREMENT ensured cable companies and
consumer equipment manufacturers share the pain of debugging/fielding OCAP:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2006_May_11/ai_n26859718
Hence a significant portion of cable system boxes were REQUIRED to be
deployed with OCAP (ODN) in addition to non-OCAP (MDN) CableCARD boxes.

I think that will be an option for HD users whenever the new 8500 HD Cisco DVR boxes hit the market. I don't think any areas have the new 8500 Cisco DVR yet. Not sure on new updates for non-DVR boxes.

This new Navigator does look nicer in terms of graphics. But have any new FUNCTIONS been implemented? (The critically needed Keyboard Keyword Search, and an expanded Sports Category list.) These features are what TWC customers really want to see.

Users with this new version, what if any improvements have you seen? We don't have this version in Milwaukee Wisconsin, yet.

Jack

I picked up an TWC (NYC) 8300HDC yesterday. On boot up, it showed Mystro/Cisco/TWC/OCAP/Java.....

The ODN Version is 2.4.10_11 2008/06/05.

It does have keyboard search function in the Guide.

Sports section shows the usual All Sprots, baseball, Basketball....etc.

And actually, the whole box is a bit faster than my 8300HD DVR running Passport/Echo.

Finally, (although it has been only two days) there seems to be less of a HDMI handshake issues.

I'm certainly not saying that there weren't valid reasons for deploying ODN. My point is that they all TWC's reasons and not attributable to the government.
<snip>

:( TWC is similar to a lot of other regulated franchise-monopolies that have been in the paper lately - It is always easier to blame someone else for their problems. Finger pointing to Congress and regulatory agencies is a fad which appeals to a lot of people... and obscures an important fact:

The FCC mandated this rule in 1998 as a modification of the 1996 telecommunication act (http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Cable/Orders/1998/fcc98116.pdf).

Here it is 10 years later and they still do not have a satisfactory piece of functioning software.... lawsuits and counter lawsuits have continued. Each lawsuit is another delaying tactic (and the law has been delayed many times and extensions given).:(

Now what is more believable is to supply this other popular excuse: "I was waiting on the hardware". But that is just more finger pointing and doing this would anger their hardware supplier. Ask Intel and MSoft or Intel and HP or whatever.

If you would really like to see a difference drop a letter to your Better Business Bureau and your local government's Cable Commission. Do this especially when the franchise is up for renewal.... or earlier. Remember unless your local government has been totally bought, your notes/letters are always reviewed and are good for future franchise and price negotiations. :)


LT.
P.S. I have gotten in the habit of unplugging the DVR every morning to force a hard reboot to minimize losses for that evening's recordings. Catching 55minutes of your favorite prime time show forces drastic actions. Hard reboots have helped me a lot - and that is what the highly-skilled TWC customer support staff will tell you anyway - reboot the machine.

I am not prone to diatribes, but repeatedly missing the last 5minutes of programs will make anyone mad. Hearing "it is Congress" just makes me more angry. Refusing to take responsibility is a child's excuse. Imagine saying that to your board of directors!

The Pioneer boxes can run Navigator. I used to have one of those old Pioneer SD boxes. Navigator looked like DOS. Nice blue and silver background with DOS like text. Passport did run much better though.

The Pioneer boxes can BARELY run Navigator because of the severe memory limitations of those boxes. If you have an old Pioneer box where Navigator behaves well, consider yourself very lucky. Pioneer box users who are having troubles after the Navigator transition are STRONGLY advised to swap out their box for a newer model/brand. (Pioneer got out of the cable box business several years ago.) TWC, depending on your local division, may play dumb acting like those Pioneer boxes can work with Navigator, but it's about a 2/10 shot I would say. Get a newer model box if you are having trouble with your Pioneer box.

Jack

:( TWC is similar to a lot of other regulated franchise-monopolies that have been in the paper lately - It is always easier to blame someone else for their problems. Finger pointing to Congress and regulatory agencies is a fad which appeals to a lot of people... and obscures an important fact:

The FCC mandated this rule in 1998 as a modification of the 1996 telecommunication act (http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Cable/Orders/1998/fcc98116.pdf).

Here it is 10 years later and they still do not have a satisfactory piece of functioning software.... lawsuits and counter lawsuits have continued. Each lawsuit is another delaying tactic (and the law has been delayed many times and extensions given).:(

Now what is more believable is to supply this other popular excuse: "I was waiting on the hardware". But that is just more finger pointing and doing this would anger their hardware supplier. Ask Intel and MSoft or Intel and HP or whatever.

If you would really like to see a difference drop a letter to your Better Business Bureau and your local government's Cable Commission. Do this especially when the franchise is up for renewal.... or earlier. Remember unless your local government has been totally bought, your notes/letters are always reviewed and are good for future franchise and price negotiations. :)


LT.
P.S. I have gotten in the habit of unplugging the DVR every morning to force a hard reboot to minimize losses for that evening's recordings. Catching 55minutes of your favorite prime time show forces drastic actions. Hard reboots have helped me a lot - and that is what the highly-skilled TWC customer support staff will tell you anyway - reboot the machine.

I am not prone to diatribes, but repeatedly missing the last 5minutes of programs will make anyone mad. Hearing "it is Congress" just makes me more angry. Refusing to take responsibility is a child's excuse. Imagine saying that to your board of directors!

I think! that I saw somewhere that the North Carolina general assembly had taken control of local cable away from the cities/counties and Raleigh now controls it all. Was I dreaming or did this really happen?

I have ODN Version: 2.4.10_11 2008/06/05 running on SA 8300HDC/NYC. Every time I turn it on, the aspect ratio is set to 16:9. The problem with this is that SD channels that my kids and wife watch gets the sidebar. I could hit the ASPECT button on the remote to stretch out the picture. But the problem is that when you go to HD channel, the stretch is still in effect.

If you set the aspect ratio to 4:3, SD channels fill out while HD channels come in properly (w/o any stretching/zooming).

Does anyone know what I'm doing wrong here? I could program my URC to change the menu setting, but it's far from perfect solution.

thanks

TWC also has plans for a Samsung DVR with MoCA, DLNA, and uPnP. This samsung DVR can do widescreen Gui. Dual core 400 MHz CPU and built on a broadcom chipset. Called the SMT-H3090 aka SMT-H3092. Can be ordered with a 320 GB HDD.

No idea if they will deploy that box. Maybe it will be deployed on 864 MHz networks and the 1 GHz networks get the Cisco DVR. The 8540 can have a 320 GB HDD as well. I'm sure they make one with MoCA, DLAN, and uPnP.

FYI: MoCA (for Multiroom distribution) would employ a 50 MHz bandwidth channel,
leaving very little left over from 864 to 1000 MHz for anything else:
http://electronicdesign.com/Articles/Index.cfm?AD=1&ArticleID=14604
http://www.ieee802.org/1/files/public/docs2007/at-sovadia-MoCA-overview-0507.pdf
http://www.videsignline.com/198500240;jsessionid=CVYBVN55ESEJIQSNDLRCKH0CJUNN2JVN?printa bleArticle=true

FYI: MoCA (for Multiroom distribution) would employ a 50 MHz bandwidth channel,
leaving very little left over from 864 to 1000 MHz for anything else:
http://electronicdesign.com/Articles/Index.cfm?AD=1&ArticleID=14604
http://www.ieee802.org/1/files/public/docs2007/at-sovadia-MoCA-overview-0507.pdf
http://www.videsignline.com/198500240;jsessionid=CVYBVN55ESEJIQSNDLRCKH0CJUNN2JVN?printa bleArticle=true

I think they could use MoCA on the 864 to 1 GHz and then reclaim the analog to add more HD. Or they could cram some more in somehow. MoCA is probably a future tech. Interesting analysis' on MoCA. No more pricey Component splitters and multipling the STB when you can use MoCA and watch it even on a non DVR. That sounds quite nice.

FYI: MoCA (for Multiroom distribution) would employ a 50 MHz bandwidth channel,
leaving very little left over from 864 to 1000 MHz for anything else:
http://electronicdesign.com/Articles/Index.cfm?AD=1&ArticleID=14604
http://www.ieee802.org/1/files/public/docs2007/at-sovadia-MoCA-overview-0507.pdf
http://www.videsignline.com/198500240;jsessionid=CVYBVN55ESEJIQSNDLRCKH0CJUNN2JVN?printa bleArticle=trueI don't understand some of the claims about the technology. From the Electronic Design article:
What makes the MoCA solution so desirable to providers of high-definition video is that the cable provides a medium that can reliably deliver up to 270 Mbits/s of gross data speed and easily more than 100 Mbits/s of net speed that can handle multiple SDTV or HDTV streams uncompressed. Name one other home networking technology that can do that!Any uncompressed HD raster is Gbits/sec, not Mbits/sec. Even 720p60 in 24bit color would be 1.3 Gbps and change.

It's plenty of bandwidth for tossing around multiple HD resolution MPEG streams, though. Maybe that's what they mean by "uncompressed".

Perhaps they meant multiple "full datarate" video streams such as from BluRay???
"Uncompressed" meaning "not bit starved"...

It would be more accurate to say "less compressed" :D. All of the commonly used video codecs are lossy compression of a raster.

I did remember that TWC was looking at 1 GHz mpeg-4 boxes as the future.

Well, I know we have 1Ghz plants around here (Utica/Rome). They biggest problem here is that we have like 75 analog channels just killing the bandwidth. If we went to an all digital system with the right management and content, both sat providers wouldn't stand a chance. That will never happen here. They will maintain the system they have and add some HD every now and then via SDV (while making room moving some analogs to the digital tier) and then dump Navigator upon us. Chances are I'll be with DirecTV before any of this happens. I was on the fence, but have now jumped into the yard and looking at my equipment options and how I'm going to set it up.

Well, I know we have 1Ghz plants around here (Utica/Rome). They biggest problem here is that we have like 75 analog channels just killing the bandwidth. If we went to an all digital system with the right management and content, both sat providers wouldn't stand a chance. That will never happen here. They will maintain the system they have and add some HD every now and then via SDV (while making room moving some analogs to the digital tier) and then dump Navigator upon us. Chances are I'll be with DirecTV before any of this happens. I was on the fence, but have now jumped into the yard and looking at my equipment options and how I'm going to set it up.

Also the 1 GHz bandwidth will probably be used for MoCA. MoCA requires a 50 MHz channel in between 864 to 950 MHz. So that will destroy a lot of bandwidth. An all digital 1 GHz network with DOCSIS 3.0 is ideal. Navigator supposedly can support MoCA with Multi Room. That will probably be in a future release. MoCA requires a 1 GHz hardware system. Some people with older cable splitters may have to get a 1 GHz model. Probably the same with Wiring. Multi Room DVR is a feature that TWC is very interested in. By using DLNA and MoCA you can share the DVR contents on another MR compatible non DVR box or another DVR. Watch a show in 1 one and finish it off in another.

Also the 1 GHz bandwidth will probably be used for MoCA. MoCA requires a 50 MHz channel in between 864 to 950 MHz. So that will destroy a lot of bandwidth. An all digital 1 GHz network with DOCSIS 3.0 is ideal. Navigator supposedly can support MoCA with Multi Room. That will probably be in a future release. MoCA requires a 1 GHz hardware system. Some people with older cable splitters may have to get a 1 GHz model. Probably the same with Wiring. Multi Room DVR is a feature that TWC is very interested in. By using DLNA and MoCA you can share the DVR contents on another MR compatible non DVR box or another DVR. Watch a show in 1 one and finish it off in another.

They actually test the SARA based multiroom in my market. It was scrapped due to consistent problems and glitches. Why didn't these same people test Navigator?

Anyway, the idea is nice, but not if I have to rent additional boxes at $8 a pop. Then DirecTV becomes a steal, and don't think they won't have multi-room. I talked to a local installer who said D* is thinking of deploying only HD DVR set tops to avoid upgrade issues later on. These boxes all have Ethernet ports and the thinking is to do things like allow trial basis functions like DVR, then just "activate" it if the sub decides to keep it.

Last night I lost the ability to tune the Fox Digital channels here in Raleigh: channels 250-252. Figured it was some intermittent thing and went to bed.

Tonight, the problem was still there. So, I unplugged the 8300HDC for a hard reboot. Rather than the 'Ait' I'm accustomed to, I got some 'rXXX' countdown, where XXX is a series of decreasing hex numbers. At the end, it said 'Proc', followed by 'upgr'. Then, it restarted and continued on with the normal boot-up sequence.

I had 2.4.10_11 before and after, but that sure looked like a software upgrade to me. I wonder if TWC pushed some other config change that necessitated downloading a new software image... I guess my 8300HDC must have failed to download it and reboot on its own, ultimately resulting the loss of those channels.

In any case, I can see those channels again now.

They actually test the SARA based multiroom in my market. It was scrapped due to consistent problems and glitches. Why didn't these same people test Navigator?

Anyway, the idea is nice, but not if I have to rent additional boxes at $8 a pop. Then DirecTV becomes a steal, and don't think they won't have multi-room. I talked to a local installer who said D* is thinking of deploying only HD DVR set tops to avoid upgrade issues later on. These boxes all have Ethernet ports and the thinking is to do things like allow trial basis functions like DVR, then just "activate" it if the sub decides to keep it.

The grass is always greener on the other side. I too would like to experience Navigator on a Samsung HD-DVR or the new Cisco boxes. TWC in our area started handing out only HD boxes. When we got our 4250HDC it came with both SD and HD cables. The HD cable being the usual cableco supplied component and audio. Yet it came with a composite connector as well. We also got an 8300HDC yet it only came with HD cables. We reused the 3250's cables on the 8300HDC. I also added a monoprice.com premium toslink cable for Dolby 5.1 :). In my room I now use the 3250HD instead of that old Pioneer box. Navigator was like DOS. It was so slow since it was never designed to run it.

Another issue one of the local techs mentioned was Multi-Room requiring a truck roll because people have bad installs from older cabling. IE: a mess of splitters and bad connections and RG-59, etc. The Multiroom DVR needs good signal levels to operate properly via the coax.

Believe it or not, I actually WANT to try out Navigator here before I ditch TWC. I want to see what state they release it upon us in. I mean, I still can as we have TWC cable boxes at work that I can keep up on. However, I feel that if I switch then it's going to be long term.

Another issue one of the local techs mentioned was Multi-Room requiring a truck roll because people have bad installs from older cabling. IE: a mess of splitters and bad connections and RG-59, etc. The Multiroom DVR needs good signal levels to operate properly via the coax.

Believe it or not, I actually WANT to try out Navigator here before I ditch TWC. I want to see what state they release it upon us in. I mean, I still can as we have TWC cable boxes at work that I can keep up on. However, I feel that if I switch then it's going to be long term.

As long as you have a fairly modern cable box then it's not that bad. However, its absolutely terrible on older SA and Pioneer boxes. The Pioneer SD boxes are way to slow to run it. It also looked like DOS. I hope they continue to improve upon it. They revised MDN's look. It isn't all blue but that version isn't out in all areas. The ODN boxes are ok but they too have their quirks. So far it could be a bit better. Our division used Passport which is much better. Navigator does has it's quirks though.

Well, I'd love to use it on an 8550. I'd even beta test it. Here's the thing. I've been generally happy with TWC. The RoadRunner and Phone have been outstanding products. Even the video service has been good to a point. We have more HD than most (about 50 channels of actual networks not counting PPV). The HD quality is great, I found it to above DirecTV's slightly. The biggest issue I have is the slow rollout of new tech when it comes to video services. We just got Start Over. SARA is an abysmal guide albeit it functions, but just leaves so much on the table, and while we have a good amount of HD, it's not quality HD. We are missing networks like Sci-Fi, FX, USA with no date in sight to get them. Analog quality has been spotty as well. One thing that has me hanging on is I get a good price on the bundle and I don't have to pay an extra $10 a month for the HD I do get. That's one fee I think is ridiculous! Paying twice for the same content, I could accept it more if it was say $5, but $10 is steep when the base package is over $60.

Ben,

I would try Navigator for like 90 days or something. It has gotten MUCH better in terms of functionality and reliability. (Just make sure you don't have a very very old Pioneer box, or one of the first-model SA non-DVR boxes.) As stated above, they don't have the memory needed to run Navigator.

My brother's SA 8000 DVR was very old and had some Navigator issues, but he exchanged it for a newer DVR and Navigator works fine for him now. A good box is really important. I had a problem ON PASSPORT with channel 14, which was a Public Access station in my area that was always blank. The box would freeze for a few seconds on Channel 14, than when it would freeze you would have to wait for about 5 seconds or select an active channel. When we got Navigator installed on our box, the issue went away! And the picture seems to be clearer.

I like how Navigator has Sports, News and Weather, and Kids Programs all in one place by just going to the Access Menu. HD users can also find HD programing all in one place, and you can sort your channels to have your Favorite Channels show up first in the guide. HD users also have all of their HD programing in one place through the Access Menu. (The Letter A on the remote.)

Oh yea, there's a menu for all HD programing, and you can also break that down by sub-category as well. You have sub categories for everything.

Criticisms are that Closed-Captioning has never worked on my 8300HD box (even with Passport.) This has been a 50/50 crapshoot with other customers as well. But I listen through great digital headphones all the time and the sound quality is amazing. The CC bug issues seem to be fixed on the newer HDC boxes. I still miss Searching by Keywords with the keyboard, and want an expanded Sports list. If those features are added to Navigator, I would have no complaints.

I also love Road Runner and Digital Phone (along with Caller ID on TV!) It's very expensive, but worth it.

Jack

PS. Ben, when are you supposed to be getting Navigator? At least you don't have to lock into a long-term contract unless you are happy with your services and want to avoid a price increase when promotional rates run out, (which we did.)

There was talk of MDN 2.4.1-108 for the legacy 8300HD DVR units, but that turned out to be "vaporware". The next version of MDN appears to be 2.4.4-9.

Has anybody gotten it yet? Better or worse? Any new bugs introduced?

They are mum about Navigator here Jack. The regional rep said we were to have it 1st quarter of this past year, but it never showed. I'm just getting tired of waiting for TWC to play catchup and if we get the $8 rate hike like I read about Ohio getting, I'm gone for sure.

Ben,

I would try Navigator for like 90 days or something. It has gotten MUCH better in terms of functionality and reliability. (Just make sure you don't have a very very old Pioneer box, or one of the first-model SA non-DVR boxes.) As stated above, they don't have the memory needed to run Navigator.

My brother's SA 8000 DVR was very old and had some Navigator issues, but he exchanged it for a newer DVR and Navigator works fine for him now. A good box is really important. I had a problem ON PASSPORT with channel 14, which was a Public Access station in my area that was always blank. The box would freeze for a few seconds on Channel 14, than when it would freeze you would have to wait for about 5 seconds or select an active channel. When we got Navigator installed on our box, the issue went away! And the picture seems to be clearer.

I like how Navigator has Sports, News and Weather, and Kids Programs all in one place by just going to the Access Menu. HD users can also find HD programing all in one place, and you can sort your channels to have your Favorite Channels show up first in the guide. HD users also have all of their HD programing in one place through the Access Menu. (The Letter A on the remote.)

Oh yea, there's a menu for all HD programing, and you can also break that down by sub-category as well. You have sub categories for everything.

Criticisms are that Closed-Captioning has never worked on my 8300HD box (even with Passport.) This has been a 50/50 crapshoot with other customers as well. But I listen through great digital headphones all the time and the sound quality is amazing. The CC bug issues seem to be fixed on the newer HDC boxes. I still miss Searching by Keywords with the keyboard, and want an expanded Sports list. If those features are added to Navigator, I would have no complaints.

I also love Road Runner and Digital Phone (along with Caller ID on TV!) It's very expensive, but worth it.

Jack

PS. Ben, when are you supposed to be getting Navigator? At least you don't have to lock into a long-term contract unless you are happy with your services and want to avoid a price increase when promotional rates run out, (which we did.)

I know that all too well. Navigator does need a modern box in order to run properly. Those people with Pioneer and older SA boxes should run back to TWC and get a new box.

There was talk of MDN 2.4.1-108 for the legacy 8300HD DVR units, but that turned out to be "vaporware". The next version of MDN appears to be 2.4.4-9.

Has anybody gotten it yet? Better or worse? Any new bugs introduced?

my 8300hd in salisbury,nc (TWC Charlotte region) has 2.4.1-108

There was talk of MDN 2.4.1-108 for the legacy 8300HD DVR units, but that turned out to be "vaporware". The next version of MDN appears to be 2.4.4-9.

Has anybody gotten it yet? Better or worse? Any new bugs introduced?

i have 2.4.4-9 in Statesville NC (also TWC Charlotte region)
if you look back a few pages you will see some impressions as well as screen shots i posted.

only thing different from that discussion is that now i can positively say that my reboot problem associated with closed captioning is fixed.:)

i believe i posted that it no longer says "loading data" when waiting for the guide to load. but it has since started doing that again.

last week i noticed that it wouldn't hold the guide info after advancing through 7 days. if i went back in later i had to wait for it to load each day again. it wasn't like this prior to the update for me.
this week it seems to be holding data but wont load the guide past 8pm Saturday.

also a couple series recordings set up for tonight and Fri. night weren't showing up as scheduled recordings as they should so i had to set it to record those as individual shows.
perhaps whenever the guide updates past Saturday those problems will be fixed. right now I'm just waiting to see.

Last night I lost the ability to tune the Fox Digital channels here in Raleigh: channels 250-252. Figured it was some intermittent thing and went to bed.

Tonight, the problem was still there. So, I unplugged the 8300HDC for a hard reboot. Rather than the 'Ait' I'm accustomed to, I got some 'rXXX' countdown, where XXX is a series of decreasing hex numbers. At the end, it said 'Proc', followed by 'upgr'. Then, it restarted and continued on with the normal boot-up sequence.

I had 2.4.10_11 before and after, but that sure looked like a software upgrade to me. I wonder if TWC pushed some other config change that necessitated downloading a new software image... I guess my 8300HDC must have failed to download it and reboot on its own, ultimately resulting the loss of those channels.

In any case, I can see those channels again now.

Time Warner was rearranging the virtual channels to make room for new HD channels.

New HD Channels Just Announced For the Raleigh Area :
260 - Discovery HD
273 - Speed HD
288 - ESPNU HD
296 - Bio HD

I just move to share a home where my housemate leases an 8300HDC running ODN. While waiting to get CableCARDs installed in my TiVo the past couple of days, I've spent some time using it--I was shocked at how incredibly sluggish it is compared to MDN. I'd played a little bit with ODN running on a 4250HDC at the house that I just moved from, but I figured that it probably runs faster on the DVR (though it has identical dual processors and memory); I was wrong.

I just move to share a home where my housemate leases an 8300HDC running ODN. While waiting to get CableCARDs installed in my TiVo the past couple of days, I've spent some time using it--I was shocked at how incredibly sluggish it is compared to MDN. I'd played a little bit with ODN running on a 4250HDC at the house that I just moved from, but I figured that it probably runs faster on the DVR (though it has identical dual processors and memory); I was wrong.

I understand your pain. Java is a mismatch for the CPUs in the 8300HDCs, making it slow. I just wish that we are not forced to choose between slow and relatively stable (MDN) or fast and crash-prone (MDN) to some people (like how HD MDN boxes sometimes crashes with closed captioning or long program times, depending on the software version).

The processors I would choose for running ODN if I had to build an OCAP box might include the Intel Atom, the Via Nano, or a low-power AMD Athlon 64. Normally, nobody wants these chips unless compatibility with previous PC programs is important because they have lots of baggage that winds up being power-sucking and heat-producing overhead that nobody normally uses like the ability to read and write unaligned data through hardware instead of software and the ability to handle data of various sizes natively, and a quirky memory segmentation scheme programmers often effectively disable in 32-bit mode. However, some of that normally useless baggage can speed Java up immensely. Of course if I designed the OCAP box, the processor would run in 64-bit mode because 64-bit mode allows these processors to use all of their registers, not have to resort to slow workarounds when handling Java code that handles 64-bit data, and disables some of the truly useless baggage like the quirky memory segmentation scheme.

We need the 85xxHDC or the Samsung boxes to rescue us from this house of slow pain.

Some areas are slowly going to Samsung. Some areas are replacing their SA 4250HDC's for brand new SMT-H3050's. The SMT-H3050 isn't the best box though. One area in NC already has the SMT-H3050 and possibly the SMT-H3090.

I understand your pain. Java is a mismatch for the CPUs in the 8300HDCs, making it slow. I just wish that we are not forced to choose between slow and relatively stable (MDN) or fast and crash-prone (MDN) to some people (like how HD MDN boxes sometimes crashes with closed captioning or long program times, depending on the software version).

The processors I would choose for running ODN if I had to build an OCAP box might include the Intel Atom, the Via Nano, or a low-power AMD Athlon 64. Normally, nobody wants these chips unless compatibility with previous PC programs is important because they have lots of baggage that winds up being power-sucking and heat-producing overhead that nobody normally uses like the ability to read and write unaligned data through hardware instead of software and the ability to handle data of various sizes natively, and a quirky memory segmentation scheme programmers often effectively disable in 32-bit mode. However, some of that normally useless baggage can speed Java up immensely. Of course if I designed the OCAP box, the processor would run in 64-bit mode because 64-bit mode allows these processors to use all of their registers, not have to resort to slow workarounds when handling Java code that handles 64-bit data, and disables some of the truly useless baggage like the quirky memory segmentation scheme.

We need the 85xxHDC or the Samsung boxes to rescue us from this house of slow pain.

X86 processors running in 32 bit protected mode (windows, linux, etc) have a linear address space capable of addressing 4 gb of memory, more than any embedded appliance (cable box) will ever need any time in the near future.

X86 processors running in 32 bit protected mode (windows, linux, etc) have a linear address space capable of addressing 4 gb of memory, more than any embedded appliance (cable box) will ever need any time in the near future.

I understand that. However, because AMD added more architectural registers when creating AMD64 (from eight registers in 32-bit mode to 16 registers in 64-bit mode), and how some encryption and hashing algorithms are sped up by 64-bit math abilities, and how Java requires the ability to handle 64-bit integers whether it be done in quick hardware in 64-bit mode or slowly through software emulation in 32-bit mode, 64-bit mode makes the most sense.

Increasing the number of registers allows the process to waste less time waiting for data to be read in from DRAM. The registers are like what you remember in your brain. Data generally needs to be here for your brain or the CPU to work on it. DRAM is like your desk. This offers much more space, but is slower than a register. Some processors like the x86 series have the ability to utilize the data directly from DRAM, but this is slow. Most processors are unable to use the data here unless they are told to copy data from the DRAM into a register. Either way, having not enough registers will cause the processor to waste more time moving data into and out of memory instead of doing real work. However, adding more registers slows down the clock speed. In the case of x86 processors, the processor is wasting so many clock cycles moving data into and out of memory instead of doing real work that adding more registers will significantly speed up the processor despite the required clock speed drop. This can allow the use of a slower-clocked and therefore cheaper processor.

Of course, this stuff about 32-bit mode and 64-bit mode does not matter for more modern RISC-based processor designs. These register problems were solved because most RISC-based processors have 32 registers instead of the pathetic 8 registers in an x86-based CPU in 32-bit or 16-bit mode. The 16 registers in AMD64 are a huge improvement.

However, security processing is sped up by 64-bit computation. Many modern encryption algorithms are sped up by larger registers. For example, AES was designed to run on 8-bit processors, but it was designed to take advantage of wider registers for significant speed boosts. I have found out that other programmers have been able to gain significant speed boosts by using 32-bit mode, and some more speed can be extracted in 64-bit mode. Also, the SHA-384 and SHA-512 hash algorithms require 64-bit math to compute, so the speed of these two algorithms in 32-bit mode is so pathetic that programmers will go to the SHA-192 or SHA-256 instead because those algorithms require only 32-bit math. Since security is required in OCAP for DRM purposes, speeding it up is a win for OCAP speed, no matter how many registers are provided.

I don't care about the address space because it is big enough even in 32-bit mode for embedded devices. Going to 64-bit mode just speeds up security and might free the CPU from many of its legacy shackles depending on the CPU architecture used.

Can someone who uses Tivo give me a comparison with Navigator? How hard was it to get TW to provide/install the cablecard? Is the Tivo DVR a lot better than TW's? What features do you lose besides not being able to order movies? Do you get a program guide similar/better than TW's?
Just trying to decide if it's worth the money to go with Tivo. I'd still have one TW DVR also - don't imagine that's a problem?

I don't have a tivo but I can say some things.

1. You do get an EPG from tivo. That requires the tivo service but they have that lifetime deal where it's $399 and you never pay it again. Also you will need either an ethernet or a wifi adapter.

2. You will probably want a tuning adapter. N.E. Ohio has a preorder page where they notify you. It's free which is awesome.

Can someone who uses Tivo give me a comparison with Navigator? How hard was it to get TW to provide/install the cablecard? Is the Tivo DVR a lot better than TW's? What features do you lose besides not being able to order movies? Do you get a program guide similar/better than TW's?
Just trying to decide if it's worth the money to go with Tivo. I'd still have one TW DVR also - don't imagine that's a problem?

TiVo vs Other DVR's is sort of a 'religion' discussion. :D

IMHO, TiVo is the winner by a landslide. Cablecards were not an issue for me. TWC Raleigh got it right first time (and I was in the original S3 group when Cablecards were kinda rare).

TiVo is hackable... (Mine has a 1TB internal drive). Programmable skip (30 sec) to jump over commercials. The user interface is faster. It doesnt crash. 2 weeks of program guide info. Season Passes, Wishlists, Network Radio, YouTube integration, HMO Apps... digital pics, audio over home network. etc etc etc... Biggest downside is SDV but that should be fixed soon with 'Tuning Adapter'.

Let the fun begin.... :D

Can someone who uses Tivo give me a comparison with Navigator? How hard was it to get TW to provide/install the cablecard? Is the Tivo DVR a lot better than TW's? What features do you lose besides not being able to order movies? Do you get a program guide similar/better than TW's?
Just trying to decide if it's worth the money to go with Tivo. I'd still have one TW DVR also - don't imagine that's a problem?I listed some advantages (and a few disadvantages) of TiVo versus leased cable DVRs back in May, in this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13797397#post13797397) post. I moved last week and just got new CableCARDs installed on Saturday--my housemate (who leases an 8300HDC running ODN) just called up the cable company and ordered them. This is the third place I've lived since buying the thing (and hopefully I won't be moving again any time soon :rolleyes:) in two different cable provider territories--Cox and Time Warner--and I haven't had any problems dealing with either over CableCARDs. (I'm sure that if you call them and tell them that you're thinking of buying a TiVo, they'll give you a long list of reasons why you should rent a box from them instead :D).

Time Warner San Diego, my current service provider, went live with the dreaded Switched Digital Video a month or two back and they haven't offered the Tuning Adapter yet, so I've lost access to a list of 45 channels. They were primarily foreign language channels and the east coast feeds of premium services where I still have access to the west coast feeds. Only five of the channels was HD (one of those was MOJO, which is being discontinued). Of all the stuff that I lost, I was only using HDNet, HDNet Movies, Universal HD and The Tennis Channel. Of course, they've added a few channels since starting SDV and all of them have been switched. Hopefully the Tuning Resolver will come soon (it's been rolled by Comcast in New Jersey so far).

EDIT: I just noticed that my post giving the advantages/disadvantages of TiVo five months ago was in response to a query from you, scnrfrq. As the old saying goes, "s*** or get off the pot" :rolleyes:. This decision hardly warrants five months of deliberations.

Well TWC San Diego is testing the Samsung boxes but it's too early to tell when they are coming out to customers. The new SMT-H3090 should run Navigator quite well. I hope TWC orders them with a 320 GB HDD. With more HD coming soon in our division a bigger hard drive always helps. Then again the SMT-H3090 has an eSATA port as well.

I don't have a tivo but I can say some things.

1. You do get an EPG from tivo. That requires the tivo service but they have that lifetime deal where it's $399 and you never pay it again. Also you will need either an ethernet or a wifi adapter.

2. You will probably want a tuning adapter. N.E. Ohio has a preorder page where they notify you. It's free which is awesome.

The TiVo Lifetime 'deal' is not as good as it sounds. It lasts for the lifetime of the equipment, not your lifetime.

The TiVo Lifetime 'deal' is not as good as it sounds. It lasts for the lifetime of the equipment, not your lifetime.

Thats the downside of the deal. No word on the Series 4 Tivo with tru2way.

Yes, I'm still trying to decide whether to switch to Tivo. Not that easy of a choice, considering cost, lost programming, buying equipment, etc. I don't think taking a few months on this is that unusual. We've been waiting for 3 years in NW PA for TW to actually improve anythng since taking over our Adelphia system.

scnrfrq, if you sweat a $300 purchase this long, how long does it take you to buy a new car?

My advice to you would be to buy a TiVo from place where you know that you can readily return it within a reasonable test period and sign up for monthly service at first (screw lifetime--there's no piece of electronic equiipment that I can buy that I won't want to update within a few years, so I bought a 3-year contract, which you can upgrade to from monthly at any time).

Actuallly--screw it. TiVo is pretty much for people who know that they want it because they've been using Series2 and/or Series1 TiVos for years before the cable providers offered a DVR, or who, like myself, know that they cannot possibly tolerate the POS leased cable box software (I've used Passport, SARA and Navigator and the only one that I enjoyed using is Passport--Navigator is something of an improvement over SARA, but it still doesn't cut it). If you have to think about it this long, my advice would be for you to forget it.

I understand that. However, because AMD added more architectural registers when creating AMD64 (from eight registers in 32-bit mode to 16 registers in 64-bit mode), and how some encryption and hashing algorithms are sped up by 64-bit math abilities, and how Java requires the ability to handle 64-bit integers whether it be done in quick hardware in 64-bit mode or slowly through software emulation in 32-bit mode, 64-bit mode makes the most sense.

Increasing the number of registers allows the process to waste less time waiting for data to be read in from DRAM. The registers are like what you remember in your brain. Data generally needs to be here for your brain or the CPU to work on it. DRAM is like your desk. This offers much more space, but is slower than a register. Some processors like the x86 series have the ability to utilize the data directly from DRAM, but this is slow. Most processors are unable to use the data here unless they are told to copy data from the DRAM into a register. Either way, having not enough registers will cause the processor to waste more time moving data into and out of memory instead of doing real work. However, adding more registers slows down the clock speed. In the case of x86 processors, the processor is wasting so many clock cycles moving data into and out of memory instead of doing real work that adding more registers will significantly speed up the processor despite the required clock speed drop. This can allow the use of a slower-clocked and therefore cheaper processor.

Of course, this stuff about 32-bit mode and 64-bit mode does not matter for more modern RISC-based processor designs. These register problems were solved because most RISC-based processors have 32 registers instead of the pathetic 8 registers in an x86-based CPU in 32-bit or 16-bit mode. The 16 registers in AMD64 are a huge improvement.

However, security processing is sped up by 64-bit computation. Many modern encryption algorithms are sped up by larger registers. For example, AES was designed to run on 8-bit processors, but it was designed to take advantage of wider registers for significant speed boosts. I have found out that other programmers have been able to gain significant speed boosts by using 32-bit mode, and some more speed can be extracted in 64-bit mode. Also, the SHA-384 and SHA-512 hash algorithms require 64-bit math to compute, so the speed of these two algorithms in 32-bit mode is so pathetic that programmers will go to the SHA-192 or SHA-256 instead because those algorithms require only 32-bit math. Since security is required in OCAP for DRM purposes, speeding it up is a win for OCAP speed, no matter how many registers are provided.

I don't care about the address space because it is big enough even in 32-bit mode for embedded devices. Going to 64-bit mode just speeds up security and might free the CPU from many of its legacy shackles depending on the CPU architecture used.

the problem is that neither of us will ever get a chance to design a cable box

superior design seldom wins over superior marketing!

the problem is that neither of us will ever get a chance to design a cable box

superior design seldom wins over superior marketing!

For cable companies, the best marketing tool is how much a box costs, as long as the box is good enough to avoid the complaints that sank the 8000HD (HD DVR set top box that crashed due to not enough memory unlike its SD version and output HD lite) and are currently sinking the 8300HDC (random crashes and slow speed) as far as I know. If the cable companies get inundated with complaints, they will start looking for a higher quality box so they do not have to hire so many call center employees to listen to the complaints and therefore cut customer service costs.

Therefore, I think that superior design occasionally wins when the older design is so bad that the cable is forced to reject a bad product.

If the cable companies get inundated with complaints, they will start looking for a higher quality box so they do not have to hire so many call center employees to listen to the complaints and therefore cut customer service costs.

Have you ever been on hold for TW? Clearly they do not believe in increasing call center staff due to volumes. I've never had a wait time shorter than 20 - 30 minutes. One time it was even an hour!

But maybe your local affiliate actually cares. Time and time again the Wisconsin affiliate has proven they don't care.

Have you ever been on hold for TW? Clearly they do not believe in increasing call center staff due to volumes. I've never had a wait time shorter than 20 - 30 minutes. One time it was even an hour!

But maybe your local affiliate actually cares. Time and time again the Wisconsin affiliate has proven they don't care.

Yes, I have been on hold for long times. However, I noticed on the Time Warner employment site which can be reached at http://www.timewarnercable.jobs/ that at least my local division has occasionally had postings for customer care positions. However, I am not the right kind of person for this kind of work, or I would have applied when such positions were available.

However, the local franchising authority can exert leverage to increase the call center staff in franchise negotiation by requiring a maximum wait time limit and can go to court for breach of contract if this limit is broken too often. This will force the cable company to either increase call center staff or fix the problem by finally rejecting the bad product. If you have a big problem with long hold times, find your local franchising authority and complain. If there is no hold time limit, press it to add one in the next contract. If there is one, let the cable franchise authority know about the violations.

Edit: I was on this site looking for jobs in the Road Runner division, where I would be a better fit. No luck there.

(one of those was MOJO, which is being discontinued)

Tell me it ain't so... Most of their programming is bleh, but I enjoy After Hours and Three Sheets.

Tell me it ain't so... Most of their programming is bleh, but I enjoy After Hours and Three Sheets.See this (http://www.tvweek.com/news/2008/10/cablers_pull_plug_on_mojo_hd.php). It appears that Cox locally has already pulled the plug on it. It's bundled with the HDNets and Universal HD in an extra cost "HD VIP Pak" by TWC San Diego (my provider), to which I no longer subscribe since it's all SDV since the end of July and therefore unavailable to my TiVo.

Tell me it ain't so... Most of their programming is bleh, but I enjoy After Hours and Three Sheets.

in my area, on Oct.29 they are adding:
Discovery HD
Bio HD
ESPNU HD
Speed HD

the full HD list promised by end of January on top of what we currently have:

ABC Family
Animal Planet
BIO
CNN
Discovery Channel
Disney
ESPNews
ESPNU
Fox Sports Carolinas
Game HD
HD Pay Per View
History
Learning
Lifetime
Planet Green
Speed
Team HD - NBA
Weather
Cinemax East
Cinemax West
Movie Channel

so if they remove MOJO it wont bother me one bit. though i too enjoy After Hours and Three Sheets i dont watch it enough to care if they remove it from the line up.

in my area, on Oct.29 they are adding:
Discovery HD
Bio HD
ESPNU HD
Speed HD

the full HD list promised by end of January on top of what we currently have:

ABC Family
Animal Planet
BIO
CNN
Discovery Channel
Disney
ESPNews
ESPNU
Fox Sports Carolinas
Game HD
HD Pay Per View
History
Learning
Lifetime
Planet Green
Speed
Team HD - NBA
Weather
Cinemax East
Cinemax West
Movie Channel

so if they remove MOJO it wont bother me one bit. though i too enjoy After Hours and Three Sheets i dont watch it enough to care if they remove it from the line up.

The interesting question will be what they will replace it with since Mojo is curerntly part of HDSuite for which we pay 6.95 per month.

The interesting question will be what they will replace it with since Mojo is curerntly part of HDSuite for which we pay 6.95 per month.

I agree.
i thought i had read somewhere what was supposedly replacing it but i cant find that post. though i think it was one of the ones on that list. i cant be sure.

See this (http://www.tvweek.com/news/2008/10/cablers_pull_plug_on_mojo_hd.php). I appears that Cox locally has already pulled the plug on it.

Bummer. I actually bought a Three Sheets 'Plepleus' T-shirt from the Mojo online store :cool:. Every time I wear it I get strangers commenting on it, so obviously there's a decent fan base!

It's bundled with the HDNets and Universal HD in an extra cost "HD VIP Pak" by TWC San Diego

Yeah, if there's no other 'premium' HD channel to replace it, the price for the VIP pack better be reduced. Like that's likely :rolleyes:

I just dumped the HD Pak. $5 a month for 4 channels I never watch.

The interesting question will be what they will replace it with since Mojo is curerntly part of HDSuite for which we pay 6.95 per month.

When I talked to a TWC technical support rep in the Raleigh/Durham area about MOJO HD failing, he said that it will be replaced by Fox Sports Net South HD full-time instead of the arrangement where live events will preempt MOJO HD. Call TWC technical support to find out what will replace MOJO HD in your area.

Tell me it ain't so... Most of their programming is bleh, but I enjoy After Hours and Three Sheets.

Sorry this one not Time Warners fault.MOJO is going out of business.

the full HD list promised by end of January on top of what we currently have:

who promised?

Greetings All,

For the Metro-Milwaukee area, does anyone know what channel 165 is SUPPOSED to be?

We received notification that Hallmark Movie Channel was going to be included as a new channel along with Daystar TV. Daystar TV shows on channel 159. Hallmark Movie Channel programing shows on channel 165, BUT the Navigator IPG Guide data shows duplicate channel listings for regular Hallmark Channel on Channel 62.

Channel 546 shows Hallmark Movie Channel content correctly, in HD, in the Guide, and on the screen. The confusing part is how DVR's will respond if users try to record something on channel 165. Are they going to get:

1.) A duplicate of what is on channel 62?

2.) A set-top box error? ("The set top was unable to record the program.")

3.) Or will it record the show that is actually on the screen?

I have not tried this yet myself, but if anyone has any answers as to the channel duplication issues, let us know.

Also TWC's website lists channel 165/62 as both being Hallmark Channel (no Hallmark Movie Channel.)

Speaking of duplicate channels, why are they still showing ME TV on both channel 201 and channel 19? TWC complains about bandwidth issues and yet users have at least two instances of channel duplication. No wait! There is a third, Aztec America appears on a 500's channel and an 800's channel (I don't get the Latino Package, so that is less of an issue for me.) But look at all this duplication stuff eating up bandwidth!

Does this have anything to do with Navigator's IPG or just TWC entering stuff into their channel database wrong?

Jack

Greetings All,

For the Metro-Milwaukee area, does anyone know what channel 165 is SUPPOSED to be?

We received notification that Hallmark Movie Channel was going to be included as a new channel along with Daystar TV. Daystar TV shows on channel 159. Hallmark Movie Channel programing shows on channel 165, BUT the Navigator IPG Guide data shows duplicate channel listings for regular Hallmark Channel on Channel 62.

Channel 546 shows Hallmark Movie Channel content correctly, in HD, in the Guide, and on the screen. The confusing part is how DVR's will respond if users try to record something on channel 165. Are they going to get:

1.) A duplicate of what is on channel 62?

2.) A set-top box error? ("The set top was unable to record the program.")

3.) Or will it record the show that is actually on the screen?

I have not tried this yet myself, but if anyone has any answers as to the channel duplication issues, let us know.

Also TWC's website lists channel 165/62 as both being Hallmark Channel (no Hallmark Movie Channel.)

Speaking of duplicate channels, why are they still showing ME TV on both channel 201 and channel 19? TWC complains about bandwidth issues and yet users have at least two instances of channel duplication. No wait! There is a third, Aztec America appears on a 500's channel and an 800's channel (I don't get the Latino Package, so that is less of an issue for me.) But look at all this duplication stuff eating up bandwidth!

Does this have anything to do with Navigator's IPG or just TWC entering stuff into their channel database wrong?

Jack


Well,

As of now, the Hallmark Channel duplication in the guide has been fixed. Other issues above remain, but as is typical of TWC it took them this long to correct a simple guide data error. This leads me to question their competence to correct larger bug issues. It's almost like they really should have stuck with Passport, paid the update fees for the rented IPG, and kept a guide that provided better quality data. I understand their intentions to save money by having an In-House IPG with Navigator. But it is clear that their programmers do not have the skills or experience needed to provide reliable IPG data on their own. Outside expertise in this area would be of great benefit to this company.

Jack

A word of advice: Don't try to reboot your STB if you lose your cable service. I lost all service yesterday (cable and internet), tried rebooting, and was stuck in a situation where, besides not being to watch or record cable programs, I couldn't even watch the material I had recorded.

Advice to TW: Allow the system to start up in state that allows access to recorded material when the cable is disconnected.

The interesting question will be what they will replace it with since Mojo is curerntly part of HDSuite for which we pay 6.95 per month.

I have read that most divisions are replacing it with MGM HD.

When I talked to a TWC technical support rep in the Raleigh/Durham area about MOJO HD failing, he said that it will be replaced by Fox Sports Net South HD full-time instead of the arrangement where live events will preempt MOJO HD. Call TWC technical support to find out what will replace MOJO HD in your area.

I am in your area.... Cary is just across Holt road.

I have read that most divisions are replacing it with MGM HD.

That would make more sense than a sports channel.... Or Smithsonian HD....

My friend has MGM HD on DirecTV and says its great.

I have to wonder why Science Channel HD isnt mentioned in any of the TWC stuff. All the sister stations are there... just no Science.

That would make more sense than a sports channel.... Or Smithsonian HD....

My friend has MGM HD on DirecTV and says its great.

I have to wonder why Science Channel HD isnt mentioned in any of the TWC stuff. All the sister stations are there... just no Science.

San Diego has Science Channel HD. Depends on the division.

San Diego has Science Channel HD. Depends on the division.

Ahhh... Just realized I wasnt in the Raleigh Durham thread...

I subscribe to too many threads. :D

That would make more sense than a sports channel.... Or Smithsonian HD....

My friend has MGM HD on DirecTV and says its great.

I have to wonder why Science Channel HD isnt mentioned in any of the TWC stuff. All the sister stations are there... just no Science.

Here in Greensboro we are getting both>We already have science hd channel here.

Greetings All,

For the Metro-Milwaukee area, does anyone know what channel 165 is SUPPOSED to be?

We received notification that Hallmark Movie Channel was going to be included as a new channel along with Daystar TV. Daystar TV shows on channel 159. Hallmark Movie Channel programing shows on channel 165, BUT the Navigator IPG Guide data shows duplicate channel listings for regular Hallmark Channel on Channel 62.

Channel 546 shows Hallmark Movie Channel content correctly, in HD, in the Guide, and on the screen. The confusing part is how DVR's will respond if users try to record something on channel 165. Are they going to get:

1.) A duplicate of what is on channel 62?

2.) A set-top box error? ("The set top was unable to record the program.")

3.) Or will it record the show that is actually on the screen?

I have not tried this yet myself, but if anyone has any answers as to the channel duplication issues, let us know.

Also TWC's website lists channel 165/62 as both being Hallmark Channel (no Hallmark Movie Channel.)

Speaking of duplicate channels, why are they still showing ME TV on both channel 201 and channel 19? TWC complains about bandwidth issues and yet users have at least two instances of channel duplication. No wait! There is a third, Aztec America appears on a 500's channel and an 800's channel (I don't get the Latino Package, so that is less of an issue for me.) But look at all this duplication stuff eating up bandwidth!

Does this have anything to do with Navigator's IPG or just TWC entering stuff into their channel database wrong?

Jack

Sometimes, TWC will have more than one virtual channel number assigned to the same physical and logical channel. For example, in the Raleigh/Durham market, UniversalHD was assigned both virtual channels 295 and 1502, but they went to the same physical and logical channels. Have you tried seeing if the physical channels are the same among the duplicates? You can do that by finding out what frequency is being used in the MDN diagnostics if you have MDN or the AXIOM diagnostics if you use ODN on a Scientific-Atlanta/Cisco cable box.

I have read that most divisions are replacing it with MGM HD.


I wonder if MGM will also have an SD channel?

Jack

who promised?

well this is a time Warner thread. who do you think prommised...... my neighbor?

perhaps it is more of a rumor that it will be by the end of January but those channels are listed in a promotional e-mail , an advert in the Charlotte observer and on the TW web site.

this is from the TW web site in my area.
Oct. 29, 2008: The following HD channels will be added to the Free HD lineup:

Network Channel
Discovery HD 632
Bio HD 638
ESPNU HD 720
Speed HD 725

More HD channel launches are planned in the coming months:

ABC Family HD
Animal Planet HD
CNN HD
Disney Channel HD
ESPNews HD
Fox Sports Carolinas HD
History HD
Learning Channel HD
Lifetime HD
Planet Green HD
Weather Channel HD
Team HD (NBA League Pass)
Game HD (MLB Extra Innings/NHL Center Ice)

Premiums
Cinemax HD (East and West)
The Movie Channel HD
Starz HD

it is rumored that this is the date for these channels.
Nov. 20, 2008:

Planet Green HD
CNN HD
MGM (replacing MOJO)
Team HD (for NBA League Pass subscribers)
Game HD (for MLB Extra Innings and NHL Center Ice subscribers)

Nov. 28, 2008: Sprout will be added to the Digital Tier

Bummer. I actually bought a Three Sheets 'Plepleus' T-shirt from the Mojo online store :cool:. Every time I wear it I get strangers commenting on it, so obviously there's a decent fan base!Supposedly MOJO HD will survive in some form as a VOD service, so maybe Three Sheets, After Hours, etc will live on.

Supposedly MOJO HD will survive in some form as a VOD service, so maybe Three Sheets, After Hours, etc will live on.

I guess San Diego may very well get HD Showcase VOD some time in the near future. HD Showcase is mentioned a bit but hasn't been released yet. I bet TWC San Diego has upgraded their VOD platform to allow Start Over, Quick Clips and look back.

San Diego thats not the ex adelphia north county can now Access Food Network HD (751) and HGTV HD (753).

I am on Brighthouse networks in Orlando. Our 2 8300HDs were recently updated to Navigator. Overall, it works and I really like the feature where it will record a new episode at a different time if there is a conflict.

My question: In the guide, some of the programs that are set to record are shown in red with a record indicator. Others are not. They all record correctly. I don't see anything different in the way they are set up. Is this just another bug? :eek:

Thanks,
Jim

My question: In the guide, some of the programs that are set to record are shown in red with a record indicator. Others are not. They all record correctly. I don't see anything different in the way they are set up. Is this just another bug? :eek:

Thanks,
Jim
I've noticed that on my 8300HD as well. We're running Navigator here too.

Looking for any Navigator news for Northern Wisconsin and the addition of the Start Over Feature:

FYI:

When I was following the Lin TV/TWC debate affecting the Fox Cities regions of Northern Wisconsin, I got into some discussion of Navigator, and a poster said that in the extreme Northern areas of Wisconsin that TWC STILL has Passport up there! So I wonder what their plans are for roll-outs to Green Bay and surrounding cities?

I told them that Navigator has gotten a lot better, but that people still miss a lot of the functionalities of Passport. I anticipate between 1st and 2nd Quarter, 2009 Navigator will be rolled out there.

Also, do you know when we are supposed to be getting Start Over added to our boxes? I can't see TWC putting Start Over on those boxes that still have Passport, although they did add Caller ID on TV to Passport boxes during the transition from Passport to Navigator for Digital Cable and Digital Phone subs.

Anyone know a Northern Wisconsin time-line for Navigator or the addition of Start Over to our current boxes?

Jack

Also, do you know when we are supposed to be getting Start Over added to our boxes? I can't see TWC putting Start Over on those boxes that still have Passport, although they did add Caller ID on TV to Passport boxes during the transition from Passport to Navigator for Digital Cable and Digital Phone subs.

Start Over is TWC tech and doesn't work with Passport last time I heard. Caller ID is available as an Aptiv add-on to Passport.

And for comparison I read Start Over was "coming soon" back in Jan 07 on the local TWC page and it's still not here yet, 6 months after Nav conversion.

I am on Brighthouse networks in Orlando. Our 2 8300HDs were recently updated to Navigator. Overall, it works and I really like the feature where it will record a new episode at a different time if there is a conflict.

My question: In the guide, some of the programs that are set to record are shown in red with a record indicator. Others are not. They all record correctly. I don't see anything different in the way they are set up. Is this just another bug? :eek:

Thanks,
Jim

i dont see this in NYC brooklyn, until like 4 days into the future.

todays and a couple of days into the future the shows it is supposed to record have the red high lite.

i upgraded my second box because of the way it handles conflict.

Start Over is TWC tech and doesn't work with Passport last time I heard. Caller ID is available as an Aptiv add-on to Passport.

And for comparison I read Start Over was "coming soon" back in Jan 07 on the local TWC page and it's still not here yet, 6 months after Nav conversion.

We are on SARA 1.89.24.1 here.We have had Start over .Quik Clips. caller ID.Time Warner Movie Store and expanded hd here for a year or more.We are now scheduled to get Navigator in the next 3 months.All those features are aviable on Sara and I hear Navigator.

Here is a little Navigator inconvenience thing that I don't like (and a question.)

My understanding is that you cannot "pad time" (add time to a Show scheduled for recording) IF another show scheduled for recording would appear as the very next show in the IPG on the same channel. Navigator used to give me alerts on this. So to illustrate by example:

Let's say that in the IPG a football game is scheduled between 12:00pm-3:30PM. Normally, let's say that you want to pad 15 minutes to the end of the football game, making the end time 3:45. Fine. But, let's say the wife wants to record some cooking show at 3:30 on the same channel when you have padded that 15 minutes of extra time. Because of the IPG grid synchronization, you cannot pad extra time to a previous program if you are recording the second program on the same channel. Using this example the conflict for Navigator is:

1.) Do I finish the first recording with padded time on the same channel?

2) Or do I forget the extra 15 minutes of overtime added by the user, and start the new program in the IPG?

I have an MDN (non-C) box. Based on your own experiences, how would Navigator handle this conflict?

Is there a workaround?

How do other IPG's handle a configuration similar to this? Tivo, Cox, Comcast's IPG?

Jack

If the other tuner was free, TiVo would do both--record an extra 15 minutes on the end of your football game and the same 15 minutes as the beginning of the cooking show, setting both tuners to the same channel. If the other tuner was busy, it'd be a scheduling conflict, and you'd have to choose one or the other (I think that it would allow you to start recording the cooking show late as an option, but I'm not sure. I've definitely seen it start a "Season Pass" recording a couple of minutes late because two higher priority recordings overlapped it).

Here is a little Navigator inconvenience thing that I don't like (and a question.)

My understanding is that you cannot "pad time" (add time to a Show scheduled for recording) IF another show scheduled for recording would appear as the very next show in the IPG on the same channel. Navigator used to give me alerts on this. So to illustrate by example:

Let's say that in the IPG a football game is scheduled between 12:00pm-3:30PM. Normally, let's say that you want to pad 15 minutes to the end of the football game, making the end time 3:45. Fine. But, let's say the wife wants to record some cooking show at 3:30 on the same channel when you have padded that 15 minutes of extra time. Because of the IPG grid synchronization, you cannot pad extra time to a previous program if you are recording the second program on the same channel. Using this example the conflict for Navigator is:

1.) Do I finish the first recording with padded time on the same channel?

2) Or do I forget the extra 15 minutes of overtime added by the user, and start the new program in the IPG?

I have an MDN (non-C) box. Based on your own experiences, how would Navigator handle this conflict?

Is there a workaround?

How do other IPG's handle a configuration similar to this? Tivo, Cox, Comcast's IPG?

Jack

I'm on TWC San Diego, I have an 8300HD (non-C version), running Navigator MDN 2.4.1-107. I've run into this issue and guess what? Navigator IS smart enough to use the other tuner, if it's not already engaged. I've run into this before.

Right now, on MSNBC, I have Countdown running from 5:00 PM (Pacific) to 6:01 PM, then followed by the Rachel Maddow show from 6:00 PM to 7:00 PM. I get both in their entirety. The playback on the RM show is seamless.

We are on SARA 1.89.24.1 here.We have had Start over .Quik Clips. caller ID.Time Warner Movie Store and expanded hd here for a year or more.We are now scheduled to get Navigator in the next 3 months.All those features are aviable on Sara and I hear Navigator.

Those features are technically functional on SARA and Navigator. Availability is a completely different subject. Greensboro is another test market so the mass distribution rules don't apply.

Have a question about Navigator.One of the things that bugs me about Sara is that it only remembers your last recording if you have to stop watching.If someelse starts watching another show you lose the bookmark in your show.Passport and Tivo would bookmark most or all shows.How does Navigator bookmark its shows.One.all or none.Can anyone answer tis question?Much thanks because on sara its a pet peeve of mine.

Have a question about Navigator.One of the things that bugs me about Sara is that it only remembers your last recording if you have to stop watching.If someelse starts watching another show you lose the bookmark in your show.Passport and Tivo would bookmark most or all shows.How does Navigator bookmark its shows.One.all or none.Can anyone answer tis question?Much thanks because on sara its a pet peeve of mine.

Navigator saves recently viewed shows in a recently viewed menu that is accessed by pressing List from the normal TV-viewing screen, and then left. I think that this menu saves shows for some time I will speculate is about 24 hours, but I really don't know how long a show stays in this menu.

Navigator saves recently viewed shows in a recently viewed menu that is accessed by pressing List from the normal TV-viewing screen, and then left. I think that this menu saves shows for some time I will speculate is about 24 hours, but I really don't know how long a show stays in this menu.

Thanks - but the question is when you hit play again, does it remember where you stopped?

xnappo

Thanks - but the question is when you hit play again, does it remember where you stopped?

xnappo

It does remember the location that the playing was last stopped, no matter how long the recording was last played.

By the way, I may have been wrong about a time limit for how long a show can be in the recently viewed menu in my previous post. I do not have the time to investigate whether a time limit does exist, and if so, how long that time limit is.

It does remember the location that the playing was last stopped, no matter how long the recording was last played.
.
Thanks. Yet another feature that has me looking forward to Navigator rather than fearing it.

xnappo

Navigator saves recently viewed shows in a recently viewed menu that is accessed by pressing List from the normal TV-viewing screen, and then left. I think that this menu saves shows for some time I will speculate is about 24 hours, but I really don't know how long a show stays in this menu.On ODN, the program stays in the recorded shows list until deleted. If a show has been viewed, then interrupted, the next time you select the show, you will be given a "Resume Play" option which takes you back to your interrupt position. It remembers the interrupted position for all programs in the list.

Start Over is coming to San Diego some time in the near future. Probably with in the next couple of weeks. They probably have upgraded their VOD servers since the concurrent ones are compatible with it. Should be pretty interesting. I also expect more HD channels.

Still no word on Navigator in TW Central NY and HD additions have come to a virtual standstill. Buffalo and Albany got some nice HD pickups and we got nothing.

8 to 13 more HD channels will be added in the San Diego area by the end of next year along with Start Over. One of those HD channels is KUSI-DT which is on Cox and OTA but not on TWC. KUSI is an indie station that plays syndicated stuff with an emphasis on news. They used to be the UPN affiliate until they canceled it and then XHUPN in Tecate now XHDTV signed on.

I guess San Diego may very well get HD Showcase VOD some time in the near future. HD Showcase is mentioned a bit but hasn't been released yet. I bet TWC San Diego has upgraded their VOD platform to allow Start Over, Quick Clips and look back.

Here in Greensboro NC we have had HD Showcase for almost 8 months.It's pretty cool think you will enjoy it.Do not know why Geensboro seems to get a lot of HD channels before rest of country but am not complaining.Quick note we are still on SARA here not Navigator.

I wonder if MGM will also have an SD channel?

Jack



Doubtful.......I mean sure you can pay for that "HD Pack" and watch those channeles on an SDTV....but as for them having an SD station I dont think they have that for any of those stations......as they are not "Simulcast" Channels.....

8 to 13 more HD channels will be added in the San Diego area by the end of next year along with Start Over. One of those HD channels is KUSI-DT which is on Cox and OTA but not on TWC. KUSI is an indie station that plays syndicated stuff with an emphasis on news. They used to be the UPN affiliate until they canceled it and then XHUPN in Tecate now XHDTV signed on."By the end of next year"? Surely you mean "by the end of the year". If they don't add several dozen new HD services by the end of next year, they're going to lose a substantial number of subs to satellite. Heck, they'd best figure on doing that by the end of the first quarter.

Thats what Bob Barlow the president said. He has said this a few times. Food HD and HGTV HD are a part of those 10 to 15 more HD channels.

Edit: I should have meant by the end of this year. Next year they may consider taking away the expanded basic tier and move that to digital.

"By the end of next year"? Surely you mean "by the end of the year". If they don't add several dozen new HD services by the end of next year, they're going to lose a substantial number of subs to satellite. Heck, they'd best figure on doing that by the end of the first quarter.

In SoCal they were looking at reducing the analogs to 30. That would allow more channels. They were looking at having 70 HD channels by the end of next year. Maybe San Diego will have that many or even more HD channels by then. It could mean that the expanded analog tier is going bye bye.

An observation - I generally watch Morning Joe on MSNBC in the morning and to catch some of the show that happens before I turn on the set I tried tuning to that channel before going up to bed at night. I expected that I'd be able to rewind back 30 or 60 minutes to catch the beginning of the show but I couldn't rewind past the time I turned the TV on. I had my 8300HD connected HDMI so I moved it to component cables and this morning I was able to rewind back as I had expected.

Jim

anyone know if Time Warner has an agreement to carry this..

or will it be like the NFL network

Yes TWC will carry MLB Network. They have already finalized it so it will be carried.

Yes TWC will carry MLB Network. They have already finalized it so it will be carried.

you have any idea if it will be on the basic or part of an addition pay level of Cable

like what is preventing the NFL Network from being added

thanks for the update

marty

Yes it will probably be on the sports pack. Thats just my judgement.

anyone know if Time Warner has an agreement to carry this..

or will it be like the NFL network

wrong thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=652328

you have any idea if it will be on the basic or part of an addition pay level of Cable

like what is preventing the NFL Network from being added

thanks for the update

marty

As VisionOn said wrong thread... but to answer your question.. It will not be on the sports tier. Time Warner owns part of the channel. They will be adding it to the basic tier.

The fact that Time Warner owns part of the channel is what is getting it added while the NFL network still isn't.

Strange Navigator issue tonight:

I was watching a DVR recording and noticed that the sound on the right side of my headphones was lower than normal. (I normally listen through the headphones) In playing a DVD the same issue seemed to be happening. Than Tru TV channel 49 had a Please Wait Message as I was scanning through the channels. Nothing too strange their but under my Audio Settings (I have an 8300-HD (No C) DVR running Mystro Navigator) they showed to use the Variable Range for listening through the set-top box and Fixed for listening through a sound system. Didn't those used to be reversed? Is TWC experimenting with some new sound range or feature on Navigator. It now says to use Variable Sound instead of Fixed for controlling to the box. In other words, the default setting was changed on its own.

After Tru TV came back, I noticed that the sound had to be turned up to about 1.5x louder than what I usually have it set. Oh yea, and my box volume is up all the way.

Anyone else having sound issues?

Jack

Strange Navigator issue tonight:

I was watching a DVR recording and noticed that the sound on the right side of my headphones was lower than normal. (I normally listen through the headphones) In playing a DVD the same issue seemed to be happening. Than Tru TV channel 49 had a Please Wait Message as I was scanning through the channels. Nothing too strange their but under my Audio Settings (I have an 8300-HD (No C) DVR running Mystro Navigator) they showed to use the Variable Range for listening through the set-top box and Fixed for listening through a sound system. Didn't those used to be reversed? Is TWC experimenting with some new sound range or feature on Navigator. It now says to use Variable Sound instead of Fixed for controlling to the box. In other words, the default setting was changed on its own.

After Tru TV came back, I noticed that the sound had to be turned up to about 1.5x louder than what I usually have it set. Oh yea, and my box volume is up all the way.

Anyone else having sound issues?

Jack

Several of us in Raleigh are having issues with NBC and sound, having to crank up the volume to hear it and also no Dolby 5.1.

An observation - I generally watch Morning Joe on MSNBC in the morning and to catch some of the show that happens before I turn on the set I tried tuning to that channel before going up to bed at night. I expected that I'd be able to rewind back 30 or 60 minutes to catch the beginning of the show but I couldn't rewind past the time I turned the TV on. I had my 8300HD connected HDMI so I moved it to component cables and this morning I was able to rewind back as I had expected.

Jim

The problem with HDMI is that Navigator knows if there is a device at the other end. If it doesn't sense a device at the other end, it doesn't bother to record. It comes in handy though if your watching a recorded program, and accidentally change sources on your receiver. Navigator senses that there is no longer a connected device, and pauses playback.

With component, it's only a one way connection, so Navigator assumes that their is a connected device at all times.

Several of us in Raleigh are having issues with NBC and sound, having to crank up the volume to hear it and also no Dolby 5.1.

Probably and NBC issue. The football halftime show was very low for me (volume wise) I'm in NYC area.

Audio problems could have been studio issues or issues with the feed. I know a few times watching SNL they have screwed up the Dolby Digital and the center channel was missing.

TWC San Diego just upgraded MDN to 2.4.4-14 during the early morning hours of November 12, 2008. Menu has different colors, but is still not widescreen.

Anything else change? Who else has 2.4.4 series?

TWC San Diego just upgraded MDN to 2.4.4-14 during the early morning hours of November 12, 2008. Menu has different colors, but is still not widescreen.

Anything else change? Who else has 2.4.4 series?

Widescreen can't be done by the current crop of boxes. The next gen OCAP ones are capable of it. I still have v2.4.1-107. Maybe next week we will get it. I wonder if ODN will get the changes as well.

TWC San Diego just upgraded MDN to 2.4.4-14 during the early morning hours of November 12, 2008. Menu has different colors, but is still not widescreen.

Anything else change? Who else has 2.4.4 series?

Menu won't ever be widescreen on that hardware as it doesn't support it. TW won't see higher rez menus/guides in widescreen until the new hardware is deployed be it from Cisco or Samsung.

I read an article as well that since Charlie Ergen separated Echostar from Dish Network, they have been pursuing other MSO's to buy their equipment which is arguably the best on the market, but cable op's are balking at it because of the association with Dish. It would be awesome if you could get a ViP 722-like DVR for cable, but it isn't going to happen anytime soon.

TWC San Diego just upgraded MDN to 2.4.4-14 during the early morning hours of November 12, 2008. Menu has different colors, but is still not widescreen.

Anything else change? Who else has 2.4.4 series?

I haven't checked today, but IMO TW's SW engineers have more important things to work on than tweak the menu colors.:rolleyes:

I haven't checked today, but IMO TW's SW engineers have more important things to work on than tweak the menu colors.:rolleyes:It wasn't hard to change and the color scheme was a major complaint for some folks--there were people who described it as "eye searing". I'm sure that there were a few hundred major and minor bug fixes incorporated in the release as well.

Thus my point that every software programmer puts out release notes with each version and so should Time Warner.

Given that many field techs are now deploying SA 8300HD boxes only on their trucks, do you think that the new Cisco 8500 HD models, that are supposed to be able to display a 16x9 program guide will also have the option for a 4x3 mode for customers who may still have HD sets, or may just prefer a 4x3 setting? Even though I still have an SD set with an HD DVR, my TV remote gives options for both 4x3 and 16x9 viewing.

Jack

Given that many field techs are now deploying SA 8300HD boxes only on their trucks, do you think that the new Cisco 8500 HD models, that are supposed to be able to display a 16x9 program guide will also have the option for a 4x3 mode for customers who may still have HD sets, or may just prefer a 4x3 setting? Even though I still have an SD set with an HD DVR, my TV remote gives options for both 4x3 and 16x9 viewing.

Jack


I don't see why not. How hard could it be to add a format option to the box so the customer can choose. I hate the way it is now because my projector will fill a 16x9 screen, but when I switch of to HD content that is already 16x9 then I get the smushed 4:3 guide.

TWC San Diego just upgraded MDN to 2.4.4-14 during the early morning hours of November 12, 2008. Menu has different colors, but is still not widescreen.

Anything else change? Who else has 2.4.4 series?

I read that too,

Don't know if this will be a nationwide MDN upgrade or not. I did hear that people were complaining about "too much blue" in the original Navigator Guide. Also uncertain if this change will also be applied to the new OCAP C-boxes or just MDN. Sure that there are other bug fixes with this release other than a more pleasing color scheme.

Some said that with this new version, pressing B to '"Find Shows", brings up the keyboard immediately. Whether or not we have Keyboard Category Searching, a feature seriously missed, remains to be seen with this upgrade.

Are there more options and features under "Find Shows" or ways to search for information with this new version?

Jack

Well, I guess it's good that the guide is getting updates, but the color? Really?!? Is this the most pressing issue Navigator has? Would it have been so difficult to add an option like SARA has for the sub to select their color scheme?

Given that many field techs are now deploying SA 8300HD boxes only on their trucks, do you think that the new Cisco 8500 HD models, that are supposed to be able to display a 16x9 program guide will also have the option for a 4x3 mode for customers who may still have HD sets, or may just prefer a 4x3 setting? Even though I still have an SD set with an HD DVR, my TV remote gives options for both 4x3 and 16x9 viewing.

Jack

Maybe you mean the Samsung SMT-H309x. That DVR is the one TWC is planning on deploying next year. San Diego is said to be testing them.

Well, I guess it's good that the guide is getting updates, but the color? Really?!? Is this the most pressing issue Navigator has? Would it have been so difficult to add an option like SARA has for the sub to select their color scheme?C'mon--there have been updates with no visible changes, just a bunch of unnamed bug fixes. The only reason folks are bitchin' about this one is that it was the only visible new "feature" and it didn't happen to be bothering them. I'm sure that the many people who were gagging on the old color scheme are happy to see the change.

http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/2/7013.jpg

http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/2/7014.jpg

Rather have my guide look like that, than stupid old I-Guide on the Motorola platform.

has been answered before..but I just found this group.

I am part of the NE Ohio Time Warner area and we only have about 10 HD channels..(not counting local)..

Can you tell me why some areas have 30 or 40 or more and we only have a a few to choose from ?

When I call our local office I am told we are in talks all the time to add new HD channels to our lineup but its expensive to do so and we want to keep it FREE so we will be adding channels when its cost effective for us to do so.

When I bring up all the HD channels Dish/Direct have to offer. I am told you have to pay for it. I said OK but at least I have an option of adding additional channels unlike now.

Any explaination would be appreciated.

Sorry again if this has been covered in the past.

Just a Frustrated HD TV owner

has been answered before..but I just found this group.

I am part of the NE Ohio Time Warner area and we only have about 10 HD channels..(not counting local)..

Can you tell me why some areas have 30 or 40 or more and we only have a a few to choose from ?

When I call our local office I am told we are in talks all the time to add new HD channels to our lineup but its expensive to do so and we want to keep it FREE so we will be adding channels when its cost effective for us to do so.

When I bring up all the HD channels Dish/Direct have to offer. I am told you have to pay for it. I said OK but at least I have an option of adding additional channels unlike now.

Any explaination would be appreciated.

Sorry again if this has been covered in the past.

Just a Frustrated HD TV owner

1) Your division may not have deployed SDV yet, and has no bandwidth.
2) Your division may be too cheap to pay corporate for more channels.

I assumed once Time Warner Corp makes an agreement with X channel to be part of TW System ..every TW district would get it..

are you saying every district is Locally owned and not owned by the Parent Company.. (I know I didn't say that right).hope you understand what I am trying to say..

C'mon--there have been updates with no visible changes, just a bunch of unnamed bug fixes. The only reason folks are bitchin' about this one is that it was the only visible new "feature" and it didn't happen to be bothering them. I'm sure that the many people who were gagging on the old color scheme are happy to see the change.

I've said from the beginning the GUI design was bad and the color palette of blue on blue on blue was just stupid, so I'll be glad to see this change. But does it extend to other changes making the menu system more usable or is it just cosmetic?

Still it's not the most important change on my list. I've had Navigator 6 months and it still pisses me off a great deal when I hit play during rewind instead of pause and get bounced 30 seconds back into the future.