so when can we expect a fix for the rewind feature?

rewind is so fustrating on the hdc boxes, when you hit play you have no way of telling where you will land.

I assumed once Time Warner Corp makes an agreement with X channel to be part of TW System ..every TW district would get it..

are you saying every district is Locally owned and not owned by the Parent Company.. (I know I didn't say that right).hope you understand what I am trying to say..This is kind of off-topic for this thread, which is specifically about the Digital Navigator set top box software. I'm not sure what an appropriate place for it would be, though.

In any case, TWC San Diego has 36 HD channels, including 4 premium movie channels (HBO, Cinemax, etc), an extra cost 4 channel "HD VIP Pak" (the HDNets, Universal HD and MOJO). Some divisions have more, some have less. They're all going to have to offer a ton more if they want to remain competitive with satellite; TWC San Diego supposedly plans to add another 15 or so by the end of the year.

I'm not sure how ownership of TWC divisions goes, but I'm fairly certain that local management has a certain degree of autonomy in choosing which channels they offer. They don't all have the same amount of network capacity and they don't all have Switched Digital Video, a system for more efficiently using the bandwidth to allow them to offer more channels.

This is kind of off-topic for this thread, which is specifically about the Digital Navigator set top box software. I'm not sure what an appropriate place for it would be, though.There's actually a thread that discusses TWC's HD programing decisions:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=652328

thanks guys for giving me an Idea how this works from District to District...

so when can we expect a fix for the rewind feature?

rewind is so fustrating on the hdc boxes, when you hit play you have no way of telling where you will land.

I've gotten used to just hitting pause then play when rewinding. It will resume from where you paused rather than jumping forward.

so when can we expect a fix for the rewind feature?

rewind is so fustrating on the hdc boxes, when you hit play you have no way of telling where you will land.

This is the #1 bug in Navigator, as far as I'm concerned. What it looks like is that they mistakenly mirrored the "jump back" function of the FF button, where it serves a useful purpose, onto the REW button where it just causes hair to be pulled out of customers' heads. BTW, it's on every version of Navigator running on both HD and HDC boxes.

This is such an easy fix, probably just changing a variable in one or two lines of code, that it's simply unforgivable they haven't addressed it yet within all these periodic updates they've issued. Ditto the "skip back" (or instant replay) button which only skips back 3 seconds instead of the advertised 8. Another easy one to fix. Probably only take 10 minutes total for both of 'em.

I keep hoping a TWC employee will read these posts and have a "Eureka! We can fix that one easily!" moment and do something about it. :( I can dream, can't I?

I've gotten used to just hitting pause then play when rewinding. It will resume from where you paused rather than jumping forward.

good tip.

so when can we expect a fix for the rewind feature?

rewind is so fustrating on the hdc boxes, when you hit play you have no way of telling where you will land.Personally, I prefer the way rewind works. And since, with the pause key, you can have your choice, I'd just as soon not see it "fixed".

Personally, I prefer the way rewind works. And since, with the pause key, you can have your choice, I'd just as soon not see it "fixed".

Huh? You actually prefer to be thrown back forward a full half-minute (on the 3X rewind speed) as opposed to simply resuming playback at the last frame seen before you hit play again, as every other rewind function on every other device in the DVR/VCR/HTPC world works? Are you serious? :eek:

Huh? You actually prefer to be thrown back forward a full half-minute (on the 3X rewind speed) as opposed to simply resuming playback at the last frame seen before you hit play again, as every other rewind function on every other device in the DVR/VCR/HTPC world works? Are you serious? :eek:Yep. I don't know about a full half-minute, but it seems to be about right for me. I seem to be capable of overshooting the spot I'm looking for in both directions. I guess your reflexes are better in reverse than forward.

Yep. I don't know about a full half-minute, but it seems to be about right for me. I seem to be capable of overshooting the spot I'm looking for in both directions. I guess your reflexes are better in reverse than forward.

reflexes are irrelevant. If you overshoot the point you can just watch and naturally arrive at the point you want a few seconds later.

If you press play and jump forward again you have to rewind again. It's the equivalent of fast forward jumping forward 30 seconds instead of jumping back 30 seconds. You have to button juggle to reach the point you should have stopped on.

There's a reason nobody else in the technology world has adopted jumping forward when rewinding and it's not slow reflexes.

There's a reason nobody else in the technology world has adopted jumping forward when rewinding and it's not slow reflexes.

Agreed, the current implementation is a faulty man/machine interface, period. It can be worked around by pressing pause before play, but that is cumbersome and unnecessary. It's an easy fix; come on TW!

Well...I'd just like to point out that perhaps not everyone agrees that rewind does not work right. Just because its not to your liking doesn't necessarily mean it needs to be fixed.

I wish that kickbacks could be customized in some preferences somewhere for rewinds and fast forwards, and have the kickback customizations for rewinds and fast forwards be separately tunable. That way, each user can adjust it to compensate (or not compensate at all) for his or her agility, dexterity, and timing.

After MDN 2.4.4-14 upgrade yesterday, my old v.1.2 (Mar2005)
SA8300HD crashed THREE times!!!

My newer SA8300HD (with eSATA HDD) made it thru two days so far....

Other than improved color (& font?), menus are all the same except
the "B" search key now goes direct to A-N entry screen (hurray!!!!),
eliminating an extra button press....

Well...I'd just like to point out that perhaps not everyone agrees that rewind does not work right. Just because its not to your liking doesn't necessarily mean it needs to be fixed.


Well, yes it does. It's a bug - a bad one - and needs to be fixed, your peculiar and singular preferences notwithstanding. I doubt you'll find anyone else here who would agree with you on this.

I've done the math. The kickback on the 1x rewind speed is about 7 seconds. In the 2x speed, it's about 14 seconds. In the 3x speed, it's about 28 seconds. That mirrors exactly the kickback on the FF button where, as I mentioned above, it has some value. It's pretty clear to me they just boneheadedly mirrored the kickback function both ways - sloppy code writing, inexcusable. Again, it's an easy fix and they haven't addressed it in all this time Navigator has been deployed. One wonders if they had any serious quality control management oversight during the Navigator development process...?

Well, yes it does. It's a bug - a bad one - and needs to be fixed, your peculiar and singular preferences notwithstanding. I doubt you'll find anyone else here who would agree with you on this.

I've done the math. The kickback on the 1x rewind speed is about 7 seconds. In the 2x speed, it's about 14 seconds. In the 3x speed, it's about 28 seconds. That mirrors exactly the kickback on the FF button where, as I mentioned above, it has some value. It's pretty clear to me they just boneheadedly mirrored the function both ways - sloppy code writing, inexcusable. Again, it's an easy fix and they haven't addressed it in all this time Navigator has been deployed. One wonders if they had any effective quality control management oversight during the Navigator development process.
If Time Warner doesn't think it's a bug it's not going to change.

Well, yes it does. It's a bug - a bad one - and needs to be fixed, your peculiar and singular preferences notwithstanding. I doubt you'll find anyone else here who would agree with you on this.My apologies. I didn't understand that you were the final word on such things. I'll defer to you.:o

Last week I saw my first instance of the in-house software; immediately noticed that the program banner that pops up at the bottom of the screen is permanent??? I saw this at my aunt's and she had called them about it. They told her to hit the Info button twice... at least I could give her better advice (hit Exit once). BUT is this how this software disaster is doing at this point?

Yes I went through all the Prefs... nowhere did I find the ability to set any of 3 "durations" for those banners... indicating they intend it to be permanent.

If Time Warner doesn't think it's a bug it's not going to change.

Well, nobody knows what they think. That's one of the problems. TWC has no mechanism in place for accepting and replying to customer feedback on things like this. I'm not aware that they've ever discussed any of these issues, even off the record in a public forum anywhere. There are a lot of industry insiders here, but nobody who works for TWC and may have an understanding of these issues has even posted anonymously.

So, we continue to tilt at windmills, hoping someone notices that a few things with Navigator are seriously frakked up. But they do seem to provide regular updates on the background colors. That's apparently important to somebody.

...nobody who works for TWC and may have an understanding of these issues has even posted anonymously.Earlier this year there was a TWC employee (a CSR of some sort) sharing what inside information that he had about Navigator in this thread. He was discovered to have visited this forum from work and, when questioned by his superiors about it, admitted to posting here and was fired for doing so (unsurprisingly, as it was a clear violation of the NDA he signed--see this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13526044#post13526044) if interested).

Well, nobody knows what they think. That's one of the problems. TWC has no mechanism in place for accepting and replying to customer feedback on things like this. I'm not aware that they've ever discussed any of these issues, even off the record in a public forum anywhere. There are a lot of industry insiders here, but nobody who works for TWC and may have an understanding of these issues has even posted anonymously.

So, we continue to tilt at windmills, hoping someone notices that a few things with Navigator are seriously frakked up. But they do seem to provide regular updates on the background colors. That's apparently important to somebody.

I think it depends on your local division. Users, if you want someone to take notice, the best thing to do is to send the appropriate topic of your Navigator related issue to your local division headquarters. DO NOT JUST PASTE A NAVIGATOR URL INTO AN E-MAIL! Send the e-mail like a professional letter explaining your concerns, what the issue is about, and request that it be forwarded to the President and or General Manager of your local division. OR find out the direct address to your local division TWC President, Vice President, or Public Community Relations Director and write to him/her. VIP Contacts might be on your local TWC division's website. Most local TWC websites should have direct contact information for local division management. Some executives of TWC divisions really do care. For example, TWC-San Diego's new division President, Mr. Bob Barlow, really seems to care about customer concerns and addressing issues related to Navigator, see this thread here from the TWC San Diego forums:

http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/2/6937.html?1224727962

Additionally, being from the Milwaukee area, about a year ago, I made a thread talking about Navigator's bugs. And I have noticed recently that when I reply to that thread, some problems seem to be fixed within a few days:

http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7898

But the thing is, you HAVE to find the contact heads for your local division. E-mail, snail-mail, FAX, Voice-Mail the higher ups for your local division. For best results, make sure that you are contacting the higher ups for your specific community! If you are in Ohio, having a problem with Navigator, contacting the San Diego office President isn't going to do any good. There is too much variation in services, updates, and features, from not only state to state, but division to division. Your issues for these reasons, have to be communicated back to the heads of your local division. Not the clueless CSR's. But the Presidents, Vice-Presidents, and PR Coordinators for your local division. If you don't know who your local TWC division President or General Manager is, find out and than contact them as professionally and best you can. Than you can get some answers that are applicable to your local division rather than 50 different candid responses from the CSR's as to when the next update for your version of Navigator is going to be released or when NFL Network is coming to TWC. Start from your division's head people and see what they have to say through e-mail, telephone, snail-mail whatever. Then we might be able to get to the beginning of some quality answers to our questions.

But to keep this topic from getting too cluttered, lets try to find out what we can and post about Navigator from division heads and than share it with the board. I cannot believe that TWC San Diego's Bob Barlow is the only president who cares or has quality direct contact.

Jack

This is the #1 bug in Navigator, as far as I'm concerned. What it looks like is that they mistakenly mirrored the "jump back" function of the FF button, where it serves a useful purpose, onto the REW button where it just causes hair to be pulled out of customers' heads. BTW, it's on every version of Navigator running on both HD and HDC boxes.

This is such an easy fix, probably just changing a variable in one or two lines of code, that it's simply unforgivable they haven't addressed it yet within all these periodic updates they've issued. Ditto the "skip back" (or instant replay) button which only skips back 3 seconds instead of the advertised 8. Another easy one to fix. Probably only take 10 minutes total for both of 'em.

I keep hoping a TWC employee will read these posts and have a "Eureka! We can fix that one easily!" moment and do something about it. :( I can dream, can't I?

you are oboviosly not a software developer. Any developer whould never make a statement such as "just change a variable" without having seen the source code. I seriously doubt if you have seen the source code!!!

Remember "anything is easy for those who don't have to do it"

you are oboviosly not a software developer. Any developer whould never make a statement such as "just change a variable" without having seen the source code. I seriously doubt if you have seen the source code!!!

Remember "anything is easy for those who don't have to do it"

Naw, I write a lot of software for a living, and I agree - this is a stupid simple thing to fix.

xnappo

Naw, I write a lot of software for a living, and I agree - this is a stupid simple thing to fix.

xnappo

to save memory or because they were lazy, they most likely used the same subroutine for the "jump" logic - therefore they would have to create a new set of logic. They most likely have their hands full trying to fix reboots & lockups AND changing colors because upper management doesn't like the looks of the current guide. Management types think a paint job will fix anything (the old magician's trick - look at my right hand and you won't see what the left is doing).

Well, yes it does. It's a bug - a bad one - and needs to be fixed, your peculiar and singular preferences notwithstanding. I doubt you'll find anyone else here who would agree with you on this.

I've done the math. The kickback on the 1x rewind speed is about 7 seconds. In the 2x speed, it's about 14 seconds. In the 3x speed, it's about 28 seconds. That mirrors exactly the kickback on the FF button where, as I mentioned above, it has some value. It's pretty clear to me they just boneheadedly mirrored the kickback function both ways - sloppy code writing, inexcusable. Again, it's an easy fix and they haven't addressed it in all this time Navigator has been deployed. One wonders if they had any serious quality control management oversight during the Navigator development process...?
The jumpback feature is a Tivo feature that TWC has embrased.Maybe not as well done as Tivo but a very welcome feature.

Does anyone would know what would be causing a 2 to be showing up in the upper right corner of the TV? It is defiantly from the 8240hd as it is not there when the box is off and when the TV is on other inputs? This happens on both HDMI and component.

Does anyone would know what would be causing a 2 to be showing up in the upper right corner of the TV? It is defiantly from the 8240hd as it is not there when the box is off and when the TV is on other inputs? This happens on both HDMI and component.

How old is this DVR?

Can you provide a screenshot? Have you done a COLD reboot? I would recommend unplugging the box for at least 10 minutes than plugging it back in. When did this start happening? Is the "2" always there or just when inputs are sent to the box? (i.e changing channels, pressing settings on the remote? ) Is it there even when the Navigator Guide is not present? Do the cold reboot with at least a 10 minute time out with the box unplugged. If that doesn't work, you might need to call TWC and arrange for a signal test at your home and/or a box exchange to get rid of the "2."

Jack

The jumpback feature is a Tivo feature that TWC has embrased.Maybe not as well done as Tivo but a very welcome feature.

In the FF mode, yes. In the REW mode, not so much. And the proper subroutine, to use rdgcss's terminology, was written in the previous Passport and SARA software, as well as every other DVR software in existance as far as I know. Nobody else's software does this infuriatingly frustrating thing, and TWC's shouldn't either.

In the FF mode, yes. In the REW mode, not so much. And the proper subroutine, to use rdgcss's terminology, was written in the previous Passport and SARA software, as well as every other DVR software in existance as far as I know. Nobody else's software does this infuriatingly frustrating thing, and TWC's shouldn't either.

Like I said NOT AS WELL DONE AS TIVO-But what on Navigator is?

One thing Navigator is sorely lacking is manual recording.Or at least the ability as in passport and sara to restrict show recording to certain days.Sara lets you record everyday in this time slot on shows such as espn sports center.Or it lets you pick a cetain time slot like monday at 4 to record only that show.How does Navigator handle these problems?

weird issue yesterday. after watching a pvred show, i stopped and deleted it.

the "picture" on the tv was beige. i can hear the show going on, but no image. same thing if i changed channels.

if i turned on pip, i could see that image in the small window, but if i swapped the big pic was beige but could see the image on the small picture.

had to reboot to get the picture back.

weird.

weird issue yesterday. after watching a pvred show, i stopped and deleted it.

the "picture" on the tv was beige. i can hear the show going on, but no image. same thing if i changed channels.

if i turned on pip, i could see that image in the small window, but if i swapped the big pic was beige but could see the image on the small picture.

had to reboot to get the picture back.

weird.


I actually had a similar issue last night. It locked up on the GUIDE section but the sound was still going in the background. And I believe it rebooted by itself. I checked to see if new FW was pushed, but no such luck.

FYI

Time Warner Cable, Cincinnati, OH - new HD channels are now available. New channels added after 983. All appear working except CNN HD which currently shows blue 'loading'-style screen and error that it is not available. SDV prob here perhaps.

--

Navigator vers did not change:

Cincinnati, OH TWC
SA8300HD
MDN 2.4.1-108, (Mt Huron)
E-SATA 400gb (with glitching)

One thing Navigator is sorely lacking is manual recording.Or at least the ability as in passport and sara to restrict show recording to certain days.Sara lets you record everyday in this time slot on shows such as espn sports center.Or it lets you pick a cetain time slot like monday at 4 to record only that show.How does Navigator handle these problems?

Not very well. For example, I scheduled HBO's True Blood as a series recording, specifying the 9:00 PM (Sunday) time slot. It doesn't have a variable for which day of the week you want, unfortunately (how could they leave that out??). Every week I have to manually add it back in and delete the scheduled recording for Tuesday, which is when Navigator has decided I want it recorded (in a different time slot, no less). Does the same thing to Dexter. And there are a number of other isolated incidents where a series recording just doesn't schedule a show at all. We've taken to reviewing the "scheduled recording" list every day to make sure our shows are actually, you know, scheduled to be recorded. There are a few ommissions every week.

Never had this kind of problem with Passport. It never missed a scheduled recording from series manager. Navigator does it all the time.

Interesting visit from the TWC-KC service man Saturday. I was having problems with my HD channels coming up "Not available at this time". He checked the signal strength and there was plenty of that, so he simply swapped out my two two-way splitters and my four-way splitter with ones from his truck and no more problems.

He explained that the splitters I had were for a satellite dish system and they could easily pass the forward signal, but they could not pass an adequate return signal to the cable company. With SDV, the cable company does not send the entire signal spectrum, but needs a signal from the box to send the appropriate signal and that was not happening adequately.

I had the same problem with my old 15 dB amp that I earlier this year switched out with a free one from TWC.

Mike

One thing Navigator is sorely lacking is manual recording.Or at least the ability as in passport and sara to restrict show recording to certain days.Sara lets you record everyday in this time slot on shows such as espn sports center.Or it lets you pick a cetain time slot like monday at 4 to record only that show.How does Navigator handle these problems?
Not very well. For example, I scheduled HBO's True Blood as a series recording, specifying the 9:00 PM (Sunday) time slot. It doesn't have a variable for which day of the week you want, unfortunately (how could they leave that out??). Every week I have to manually add it back in and delete the scheduled recording for Tuesday, which is when Navigator has decided I want it recorded (in a different time slot, no less). Does the same thing to Dexter. And there are a number of other isolated incidents where a series recording just doesn't schedule a show at all. We've taken to reviewing the "scheduled recording" list every day to make sure our shows are actually, you know, scheduled to be recorded. There are a few ommissions every week.

Never had this kind of problem with Passport. It never missed a scheduled recording from series manager. Navigator does it all the time.

I've never had a problem with any of my series recordings. True Blood , Californication and lots of others that have the reruns flagged as new somehow isn't a problem for me. navigator always gets the first airing and ignores the reruns flagged in the guide as new. but i have had instances where i try to set up a new series recording and it wont give me the option to record the series, just the current highlighted episode, even though it is a series. sometimes i can go back later in the day and it will allow me to set up the series.
but never the less i think a manual recording option similar to passport and sara would be a great addition. sometimes i would just like to record the last 30 min of boxing because thats when they are showing the featured match. a manual option would be great for that.

The TW remote for my SA 8300 HD will not control the volume correctly for my Samsung 40" HD TV. The volume will only go in steps if you keep pressing the volume buttons. With my other remotes , the volume will increase/decreaase continually if you hold the buttons down. Can anyone give me a different code to use for the remote so it works with my TV correctly?

Not very well. For example, I scheduled HBO's True Blood as a series recording, specifying the 9:00 PM (Sunday) time slot. It doesn't have a variable for which day of the week you want, unfortunately (how could they leave that out??). Every week I have to manually add it back in and delete the scheduled recording for Tuesday, which is when Navigator has decided I want it recorded (in a different time slot, no less). Does the same thing to Dexter. And there are a number of other isolated incidents where a series recording just doesn't schedule a show at all. We've taken to reviewing the "scheduled recording" list every day to make sure our shows are actually, you know, scheduled to be recorded. There are a few ommissions every week.

Never had this kind of problem with Passport. It never missed a scheduled recording from series manager. Navigator does it all the time.


you sure there isnt a conflict with something else?

my navigator moves the true blood recording cause there is a conflict with 2 other shows.

you sure there isnt a conflict with something else?

my navigator moves the true blood recording cause there is a conflict with 2 other shows.

No, I make sure there are no conflicts before I set up a series recording. If there was a conflict, it wouldn't let you set up a series recording anyway. It's that smart, at least. The problem is it sometimes won't record a show at the right time, but most of the time it will. I think in my original post I said this happens every week but it really doesn't, and that's the infuriating part. These scheduling drop-outs appear to be random, even when there's nothing being recorded on the other tuner.

The TW remote for my SA 8300 HD will not control the volume correctly for my Samsung 40" HD TV. The volume will only go in steps if you keep pressing the volume buttons. With my other remotes , the volume will increase/decreaase continually if you hold the buttons down. Can anyone give me a different code to use for the remote so it works with my TV correctly?

"0812" worked perfectly for me using the Universal Electronics Atlas OCAP 5-device Remote Control supplied by TWC San Diego on my Samsung LN46A650 LCD HDTV.

BTW, My SA8300HDC box updated this morning at 4:56AM with a new version of the ODN software: 3.1.0_7 dated 2008/10/27

New colors to the menu were immediately apparent, so I checked the diags, which now have 14 pages instead of 9. Haven't found any functional changes yet but I haven't had time to really explore the menus. DVR contents on the expansion drive seemed to have survived the upgrade OK.

HTH,
TT

ODN is now at 3.1.0_7. More diagnostics and more and a new color scheme.

I'll try the 0812, but my remote is a SA AT8550 Alltouch. I've tried all the codes in the manual with no luck so far on the volume.

I have Navigator runnin on my 8300HDC box to my Panasonic 50PZ800U. On certain channels like WB and sometimes NBC, certain programs, there's a flickering black and white line across the top of the screen.

Is that something with my TV or box, and is it something that can be fixed? Any help is appreciated, thanks!

ODN is now at 3.1.0_7. More diagnostics and more and a new color scheme.

Have they added time slot recording and or priority management to odn yet.

Like user ttweed mentioned in the thread above, Time Warner San Diego got a new version of Navigator last night for ODN boxes. Here is what I found on my SA8300HDC with the new version in Time Warner Desert Cities.

The version is listed as 3.1.0_7 dated 10/27/2008.

I poked around and found some new features, plus took some screenshots for you. Here goes.


http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/7079/diagverwe6.jpg

This is a shot of the diagnostic page showing the version number.


http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/9743/guidesamplewr0.jpg

Here is a shot of the new colors in the guide.


http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/2181/nearesttunejs9.jpg

Here is a shot of what I believe is a new feature called "Nearest Tune." If enabled, this feature selects the next highest channel if a nonexistent channel is entered from the remote. I don't recall seeing this feature before.


http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/3247/seriespriorityud9.jpg

Saving the best for last, ODN now has the ability to prioritize series recordings!

I don't see any other changes. The speed seems better to me also.

Have they added time slot recording and or priority management to odn yet.

I just checked, and if by "time slot recording", you mean under series recording options there is an "air time" option that allows either recording the series all times or one specific time showing... then yes that option is now there. I don't remember seeing this option on the previous ODN version.

As mentioned in my previous post with the screen caps... series priority management is now there also.

It's about time that ODN got the 'Set Priority' option that MDN people have had for at least a year.

So now, the latest versions list:
ODN is 3.1.0_27
MDN is 2.4.4_14

Post up when your area gets the new version(s).

I have Navigator runnin on my 8300HDC box to my Panasonic 50PZ800U. On certain channels like WB and sometimes NBC, certain programs, there's a flickering black and white line across the top of the screen.

Is that something with my TV or box, and is it something that can be fixed? Any help is appreciated, thanks!Not you. It is the closed captioning data being displayed (poor way of sending the signal by these networks). You need to overscan some to not see it (stretch, move, etc. the screen). I live with it since the whole picture is there and not cut off at all at least. You will also sometimes see a blue line on the left side (same issue except not closed captioning just poor way of sending the wide screen). /Dan

It's about time that ODN got the 'Set Priority' option that MDN people have had for at least a year.

So now, the latest versions list:
ODN is 3.1.0_27
MDN is 2.4.4_14

Post up when your area gets the new version(s).

It's 3.1.0_7 not 3.1.0_27.

The 0812 code was not accepted by my remote, so I'm back where I started, with poor volume control using the TW remote.

The 0812 code was not accepted by my remote, so I'm back where I started, with poor volume control using the TW remote.Take the remote in and ask for the other that the other person commented worked. They will swap especially if you tell them the short story. /Dan

It's about time that ODN got the 'Set Priority' option that MDN people have had for at least a year.

So now, the latest versions list:
ODN is 3.1.0_27
MDN is 2.4.4_14

Post up when your area gets the new version(s).

There are reports by a user on the eSATA thread that the ODN update killed all recordings on the external drive. Anyone else experienced this?

xnappo

I too have a LN-T1953H that has problems with the volume control. The downstairs LN-R408D has no problems thats hooked up to the 8300HDC has no volume control issues.

I noticed some other "features" in the new release: the scrolling in the keyboard menu wraps (if you're at the far right and press right - it goes to the list); you can now press info to return from info pages (instead of C). Saved movies no longer display the year in any of the info pages - oh wait, that's a bug! I'm still waiting for the restoration of the frame advance feature.

I noticed some other "features" in the new release: the scrolling in the keyboard menu wraps (if you're at the far right and press right - it goes to the list); you can now press info to return from info pages (instead of C). Saved movies no longer display the year in any of the info pages - oh wait, that's a bug! I'm still waiting for the restoration of the frame advance feature.
One of three diagnostic entry methods no longer responds using SA8300HDC ODN 3.1.0_7.
1. Our diagnostic channel (998) still displays some pages incl. FDC/RDC levels (but NOT QAM levels).
2. CH_DN after hold SELECT key until see MAIL icon on front panel still displays some pages (but NOT QAM levels).
3. CH_UP after hold SELECT key until see MAIL icon on front panel no longer works (used to have QAM levels).

Both MDN and ODN now go directly to the A-N entry SEARCH menu, saving an extraneous button press.

Oh, don't forget we're still missing the old Passport "C" button function
to skip through unwanted channels blocks.

Please varify this,

But AFAIK, the only states that currently have this new version are sections of California and North Carolina. At least this is what have have seen from this board. A lot of us still have the infamous all blue on blue Navigator IPG.

No ability to do theme searches (not just title searches) on the Keyboard with this upgrade yet? This is what REALLY needs to be brought back from the Passport system.

Jack

Can I get confirmation:

MDN = for 8300HD boxes
ODN = for 8300HDC boxes

Can I get confirmation:

MDN = for 8300HD boxes
ODN = for 8300HDC boxes

Confirmed. ODN will also be for any Tru2Way devices.

xnappo

I just checked, and if by "time slot recording", you mean under series recording options there is an "air time" option that allows either recording the series all times or one specific time showing... then yes that option is now there. I don't remember seeing this option on the previous ODN version.

As mentioned in my previous post with the screen caps... series priority management is now there also.
At last with these new features Navigator may be at the point I now want it for my DVR.Time slot and priority management were two features I really needed.Now only keyword search is missing to made it a fully modern dvr guide.YESSSS

I just checked, and if by "time slot recording", you mean under series recording options there is an "air time" option that allows either recording the series all times or one specific time showing... then yes that option is now there. I don't remember seeing this option on the previous ODN version.

As mentioned in my previous post with the screen caps... series priority management is now there also.

If is not to much trouble could you post screen shorts of the current Navigator recording options and how they work.

If is not to much trouble could you post screen shorts of the current Navigator recording options and how they work.

Sure... here you go.

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7930/img0169sg1.jpg

This is the main recording screen.


http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/9016/img0170kg1.jpg

This is to record just one show (no series).


http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/4697/img0171fh0.jpg

This is the series recording options.

Just joined this group, I am Time Warner customer in San Diego and have a Western Digital DVR Expander attached to my HD Recorder box. Current ODN version is 3.1.0_7 which was working perfectly until 11/21/08 around 7 AM when Time Warner installed an "upgrade" to Navigator. This appears to have changed DSM-CC Profile Catalog, whatever that is, on 11/21/08 at 7:03 AM. Visually, Navigator has different colors, much brighter, even has some emoticons which are not explained. After box rebooted I found most of my recordings deleted and try as I may the Expander hard drive no longer accepts new recordings.

It appears to, but when time for recording to start it does not. Removed the Expander and it now works. Tried several installations to no avail.

In reading previous posts it appears Time Warner has done it again, fixed one problem and created another. The extender was completely approved by Scientific Atlanta and Time Warner and has worked perfectly for about 3 months, greatly expanding available disk space.

Anyone else having problems with this latest Navigator upgrade?

It might have been "approved" by TWC corporate at some point (I recall that they had some deal to buy some a few years back) but to my knowledge it's never been supported. Without official support for the expansion drive feature they can muck it up and be totally unaccountable.

Sure... here you go.

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7930/img0169sg1.jpg

This is the main recording screen.


http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/9016/img0170kg1.jpg

This is to record just one show (no series).


http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/4697/img0171fh0.jpg

This is the series recording options.

Question.On the air time shownings how does that work'Is it like ESPN Sportscenter at 4:00 everyday.Also can it do say MonsterQuest at 9:00 on WED every wed.

It might have been "approved" by TWC corporate at some point (I recall that they had some deal to buy some a few years back) but to my knowledge it's never been supported. Without official support for the expansion drive feature they can muck it up and be totally unaccountable.

Exactly,

TWC can only "support" their rented equipment to their customers like cable boxes/DVR's, remotes, routers, and so forth. External drives may have been tested and passed conventional uses with the program guides, but because TWC does not rent out external drives, they are not responsible for how well they work with the equipment that they rent. This is why TWC can charge customers like $40 for a truck trip, if a tech comes to your home for an issue that is not related to their equipment, network, lines, or signal.

The thing is, TWC can only test and regulate what they own or rent out as part of their systems. Providing support for external drives, TV's, things owned by the consumer, would be such a burden and expense to them, (not to mention overhead costs,) that they would not have enough qualified techs or CSR's to handle issues related to equipment from outside or third-party vendors.

Jack

Question.On the air time shownings how does that work'Is it like ESPN Sportscenter at 4:00 everyday.Also can it do say MonsterQuest at 9:00 on WED every wed.

When you cycle through that option is goes from all times to the current time of the show you have selected. So if I select the 4 PM showing of ESPN Sportscenter, it will show record at 4 PM only. It does not appear to have the ability to restrict by day of week.

There have been many known issues with Closed Captioning not working at all, to working very sporadically on the MDN boxes.

Has anyone with an MDN box who has NOT been able to get Closed Caption to work at all, been able to get it working on an MDN box with this upgrade?

I don't have the newest Navigator version on my SA8300 HD DVR. But it should be noted that my DVR box's Closed-Captioning never worked, not even with the Passport Guide.

Jack

PS. "CC on with Mute" also does not work on my SA8300HD box. My box also controlls the Volume through the TV.

Mine neither. I could get it to be on all the time or off all the time but not come on when mute is pressed. Think it is to do with the HDTV/cable box interaction because it works fine on my old regular tv.

NOTE: SARA Capability/Functionality, listed only for reference.

Since some NAVIGATOR and SARA functions are similar, as if SARA provided the base code for NAVIGATOR...

I was playing with the audio settings in SARA last week and found that the options for CC were ON/OFF if the AUDIO:VOLUME CTL was set to FIXED, while the options for CC were ON/OFF/ON WITH MUTE if the AUDIO:VOLUME CTL was set to VARIABLE.

The older TV receiving 480i over RF could interpret the CC information. I am not sure if/how composite, component, and hdmi pass the CC information over 480i/p or HD resolutions.

If the CC information is not being passed to the TV for interpretation, I am fairly sure that the STB can only offer the CC ON WITH MUTE function when it controls the audio volume (presumably over the red/white 2-ch stereo RCA outputs). Else it has no way of determining when the mute button is active (and please don't ask for that to be added into the already complex and flaky HDMI).



v/r,
C-F

Exactly,

TWC can only "support" their rented equipment to their customers like cable boxes/DVR's, remotes, routers, and so forth. External drives may have been tested and passed conventional uses with the program guides, but because TWC does not rent out external drives, they are not responsible for how well they work with the equipment that they rent. This is why TWC can charge customers like $40 for a truck trip, if a tech comes to your home for an issue that is not related to their equipment, network, lines, or signal.

The thing is, TWC can only test and regulate what they own or rent out as part of their systems. Providing support for external drives, TV's, things owned by the consumer, would be such a burden and expense to them, (not to mention overhead costs,) that they would not have enough qualified techs or CSR's to handle issues related to equipment from outside or third-party vendors.

Jack

I don't mean to be a naysayer but this is pure BS. This is the kind of "story" that TWC likes to tell, knowing most of us wil accept it and be satisfied with atever pathetic service they provide. There is an esata port on the box. This is a standard conection and it does not change from one version of the software to the next. If the software correctly supports communication to an external device following the correct procedures then it will always work as long as the external device implements the "standard" correctly. TWC goes out of their way (IMO) to make every complaint and problem someone elses fault and not their fault. Navigator has problems, even though it is gtting better, it is getting better too slowly. Many features of other programs (Passport for instance) are not implemented yet. Even if some of the features are conveniences they were nice, we were used to them, and they were taken away and after all is said and done , our rates keep going up, our wait time for customer support keeps going up, My blood presure keeps going up, and yet I still can't swap tuners without PIP and I have had 4 boxes simply quit working within a day of an upgrade causing me to have to swap and lose everything on the drive.

Sorry if this comes off harsh towards others, it is intended to be harsh only towards TWC as I feel they are not trying near as hard as they should be.

NOTE: SARA Capability/Functionality, listed only for reference.

Since some NAVIGATOR and SARA functions are similar, as if SARA provided the base code for NAVIGATOR...

I was playing with the audio settings in SARA last week and found that the options for CC were ON/OFF if the AUDIO:VOLUME CTL was set to FIXED, while the options for CC were ON/OFF/ON WITH MUTE if the AUDIO:VOLUME CTL was set to VARIABLE.

The older TV receiving 480i over RF could interpret the CC information. I am not sure if/how composite, component, and hdmi pass the CC information over 480i/p or HD resolutions.

If the CC information is not being passed to the TV for interpretation, I am fairly sure that the STB can only offer the CC ON WITH MUTE function when it controls the audio volume (presumably over the red/white 2-ch stereo RCA outputs). Else it has no way of determining when the mute button is active (and please don't ask for that to be added into the already complex and flaky HDMI).



v/r,
C-F


Hmm, that's interesting. Thanks for that. I may be able to simplify my macro now. I'm using a variable to keep track of on/off status because of the ON WITH MUTE option.

Hmm, that's interesting. Thanks for that. I may be able to simplify my macro now. I'm using a variable to keep track of on/off status because of the ON WITH MUTE option.

There is a major theory that CC on Navigator and the On With Mute Options are strongly controlled by the BOX. Not the TV. And I thought about this, because that third option under CC in Navigator is "On With Mute." But I presume that they are talking about the VOLUME and MUTE on the box. Not the Volume and Mute on your TV.

When you get cable for the first time the tech usually programs the Power On/Off buttons and Volume by punching in the code for your TV. This would over-ride the Mute/Volume settings for the box. BUT, if you pick up a box at a local TWC office for example, the settings are obviously set to control the box power and box volume only. In this case, you have to find the codes to do the following:

1.) Control Power On/Off to your TV and

2.) Control Volume to your TV

So what I am thinking is, people are getting the new C boxes through walk-in offices, and the CC works fine. People who have the non-C boxes that were originally installed by the cable guy are thinking their CC doesn't work because of the box. But maybe it's because THE BOX VOLUME/MUTE MUST BE SET TO CONTROL THE CABLE BOX'S OWN CC SYSTEM THROUGH ITS OWN VOLUME AND MUTE CONTROLS.

If your cable box is controlling the Volume and Mute Controls from your own TV. (you have programmed the TV code for this) than obviously, the CC option on the box to control its own CC especially in cases like "On With Mute" won't know what to do.

I have not tested out this theory, as now that I use my Dynamic Headphones I don't even need CC, but it seems to make sense.

Jack

At last with these new features Navigator may be at the point I now want it for my DVR.Time slot and priority management were two features I really needed.Now only keyword search is missing to made it a fully modern dvr guide.YESSSS

ODN and MDN both have keyword search. The priority and management features are only on the ODN version which requires an 8300/8240HDC or the new Samsung SMT-H3090.

The "Air Time" setting on series recordings has been a feature of MDN and not ODN for a long time--it just got added to ODN. As for series recording priority management, I can't say, since I don't have access to a box running MDN now.

Just joined this group, I am Time Warner customer in San Diego and have a Western Digital DVR Expander attached to my HD Recorder box. Current ODN version is 3.1.0_7 which was working perfectly until 11/21/08 around 7 AM when Time Warner installed an "upgrade" to Navigator. This appears to have changed DSM-CC Profile Catalog, whatever that is, on 11/21/08 at 7:03 AM. Visually, Navigator has different colors, much brighter, even has some emoticons which are not explained. After box rebooted I found most of my recordings deleted and try as I may the Expander hard drive no longer accepts new recordings.

It appears to, but when time for recording to start it does not. Removed the Expander and it now works. Tried several installations to no avail.

In reading previous posts it appears Time Warner has done it again, fixed one problem and created another. The extender was completely approved by Scientific Atlanta and Time Warner and has worked perfectly for about 3 months, greatly expanding available disk space.

Anyone else having problems with this latest Navigator upgrade?

I have an Apricorn DVR extender and started having the same problems on Thursday Nov. 20. I was only able to fix the record problems by removing the extender and rebooting the SA 8240HDC. I just got the extender on Nov 18th. I had all of one day with correct operation!

There have been many known issues with Closed Captioning not working at all, to working very sporadically on the MDN boxes.

Has anyone with an MDN box who has NOT been able to get Closed Caption to work at all, been able to get it working on an MDN box with this upgrade?

I don't have the newest Navigator version on my SA8300 HD DVR. But it should be noted that my DVR box's Closed-Captioning never worked, not even with the Passport Guide.

Jack

PS. "CC on with Mute" also does not work on my SA8300HD box. My box also controlls the Volume through the TV.


i posted awhile back about when i got v.2.4.4-9. CC worked for like 2 days then stopped working. then after about a week it started working again. its probably been a month or more now and yesturday it quit working again. dont know whats causing it to be so sporatic for me but i'm glad that when it does work i dont get any reboots when its on anymore.

The "Air Time" setting on series recordings has been a feature of MDN and not ODN for a long time--it just got added to ODN. As for series recording priority management, I can't say, since I don't have access to a box running MDN now.I asked in hdtv.forsandiego.com and one person claims that the Set Priority option for Series Recording entries, like Air Time, has also always been a feature of MDN.

ODN and MDN both have keyword search. The priority and management features are only on the ODN version which requires an 8300/8240HDC or the new Samsung SMT-H3090.

ODN has just received series priority feature and time slot(Airtime)recording.I belive you will find MDN and ODN have keyboard search.The keyword search that Passport had and Tivo has is still missing.

I have an Apricorn DVR extender and started having the same problems on Thursday Nov. 20. I was only able to fix the record problems by removing the extender and rebooting the SA 8240HDC. I just got the extender on Nov 18th. I had all of one day with correct operation!

Is there anybody with external drive and 3.1.0_7 NOT having problems?

I asked in hdtv.forsandiego.com and one person claims that the Set Priority option for Series Recording entries, like Air Time, has also always been a feature of MDN.

I had a SA8300HD (MDN) with Navigator that I turned in a couple months ago after the hard drive started rattling... and I can confirm it had both those features.

Is there anybody with external drive and 3.1.0_7 NOT having problems? Mine have been intermittant with an Apricorn 500GB expansion drive, but I lost all the archived programming on it due to the upgrade to ver. 3.1.0_7. I posted here in the SA8300 eSATA forum (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=516559&page=355) about my problems, but I will recap them for you.

The morning after the upgrade, I could not retrieve or play any archived recording on my SA8300HDC DVR, I got only a blank screen when trying to play any of them, With the previous ver. 2.4.10_11, I had been having no problems at all with the eSATA drive for quite some time, and was relatively satisfied.

I went through a progressive series of attempts to get my 40+ hours of archived programming on the expansion drive back. First I tried a warm boot of the STB with the eSATA drive still connected. I had all the archived shows still available in my program list, including those on the expansion drive, but none of them would play, just a blank screen came up. Diagnostics showed 611GB capacity with 200+ GB free space.

Next I tried a cold boot with the eSATA drive connected. Same result. Then I hard-booted with the eSATA drive disconnected, and the only programs in the list were the ones on the internal drive, as expected, and they would play back fine. Device diagnostics showed 151GB capacity. Next I hard-booted after reattaching the eSATA drive and turning it on, waiting for it to spin up before powering on the DVR, just as in the original installation, and it recognized the drive without formatting it, the diagnostics showed the 611GB capacity again, but with 500+ free space! The "List" command only shows the older archived programs recorded on the internal drive, still. It did not recognize the programs on the external drive anymore. I am unable to recover the 40+ hours of content on it, but it seemed to work fine for new recordings, etc.

I had more weird problems happen yesterday. After everything appeared to be working fine for awhile with the eSATA drive attached, later in the day, I found that the direct record (red button on the remote) was not working. When pressed, the "Rec" tag would come up on the right side of the "Info" banner for a moment, and then flicker out, but the red "Recording" light would never light up in the DVR front panel. Nothing would be recorded, and the Recording Log would show an error message of "Channel not available," even though the TV was displaying the channel fine when I pushed the 'Record" button! Live buffering of any channel I tuned to was not working at all, either. I scheduled a future program to record, but it failed, with the same error message in the recording log of "Channel not available."

I cold-booted the DVR this morning with the Apricorn drive still attached, and everything seems to be normal again. I have live buffering of any tuned channel, the direct record button works, and I have successfully scheduled a recording of a future program and it plays back fine. For how long it will work, though, I have no idea, and little faith. I don't know what the problem is, but it is certainly not the Apricorn drive, it is something flakey about the Navigator software. These same kinds of recording glitches were reported by the MDN (8300HD) software users too, at the beginning of the whole Navigator clusterf@#k, so maybe they are due to network problems that will slowly get better? I don't know.

One thing that I noticed--on pg. 1 of the settop box diagnostics that come up when I tune to channel 998, the item for "network connection" comes up in red and says "Not connected" when it refreshes on my STB. Should I be worried about this? Does it only connect when you are using VOD services or something?

I can't believe I pay these clowns at TWC nearly $150/mo. for this kind of service. If there were any reasonable alternative or equivalent competitor, I would bail on them in a heartbeat, with a parting "middle-finger salute."

TT

Mine have been intermittant with an Apricorn 500GB expansion drive, but I lost all the archived programming on it due to the upgrade to ver. 3.1.0_7. I posted here in the SA8300 eSATA forum (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=516559&page=355) about my problems, but I will recap them for you.

The morning after the upgrade, I could not retrieve or play any archived recording on my SA8300HDC DVR, I got only a blank screen when trying to play any of them, With the previous ver. 2.4.10_11, I had been having no problems at all with the eSATA drive for quite some time, and was relatively satisfied.

I went through a progressive series of attempts to get my 40+ hours of archived programming on the expansion drive back. First I tried a warm boot of the STB with the eSATA drive still connected. I had all the archived shows still available in my program list, including those on the expansion drive, but none of them would play, just a blank screen came up. Diagnostics showed 611GB capacity with 200+ GB free space.

Next I tried a cold boot with the eSATA drive connected. Same result. Then I hard-booted with the eSATA drive disconnected, and the only programs in the list were the ones on the internal drive, as expected, and they would play back fine. Device diagnostics showed 151GB capacity. Next I hard-booted after reattaching the eSATA drive and turning it on, waiting for it to spin up before powering on the DVR, just as in the original installation, and it recognized the drive without formatting it, the diagnostics showed the 611GB capacity again, but with 500+ free space! The "List" command only shows the older archived programs recorded on the internal drive, still. It did not recognize the programs on the external drive anymore. I am unable to recover the 40+ hours of content on it, but it seemed to work fine for new recordings, etc.

I had more weird problems happen yesterday. After everything appeared to be working fine for awhile with the eSATA drive attached, later in the day, I found that the direct record (red button on the remote) was not working. When pressed, the "Rec" tag would come up on the right side of the "Info" banner for a moment, and then flicker out, but the red "Recording" light would never light up in the DVR front panel. Nothing would be recorded, and the Recording Log would show an error message of "Channel not available," even though the TV was displaying the channel fine when I pushed the 'Record" button! Live buffering of any channel I tuned to was not working at all, either. I scheduled a future program to record, but it failed, with the same error message in the recording log of "Channel not available."

I cold-booted the DVR this morning with the Apricorn drive still attached, and everything seems to be normal again. I have live buffering of any tuned channel, the direct record button works, and I have successfully scheduled a recording of a future program and it plays back fine. For how long it will work, though, I have no idea, and little faith. I don't know what the problem is, but it is certainly not the Apricorn drive, it is something flakey about the Navigator software. These same kinds of recording glitches were reported by the MDN (8300HD) software users too, at the beginning of the whole Navigator clusterf@#k, so maybe they are due to network problems that will slowly get better? I don't know.

One thing that I noticed--on pg. 1 of the settop box diagnostics that come up when I tune to channel 998, the item for "network connection" comes up in red and says "Not connected" when it refreshes on my STB. Should I be worried about this? Does it only connect when you are using VOD services or something?

I can't believe I pay these clowns at TWC nearly $150/mo. for this kind of service. If there were any reasonable alternative or equivalent competitor, I would bail on them in a heartbeat, with a parting "middle-finger salute."

TT

Thanks. I'm getting nervous, as 2.4.10_11 has been good to me(no bugs; missing features are another story), so adding a couple of nice but not must-have features sure is not worth the trouble with eSATA for me. I have been accumulating recordings hoping to view them for during the Christmass break.

ODN has just received series priority feature and time slot(Airtime)recording.I was responding to:
The priority and management features are only on the ODN version which requires an 8300/8240HDC or the new Samsung SMT-H3090.The reality is that both Air Time and Set Priority on Series Recordings were features of MDN which were not present on ODN until this last upgrade.

It's also notable that, even after this upgrade, ODN remains breathtakingly slow on the 8300HDC. Hopefully newer STBs, like Cisco's Explorer 8550HDC (http://www.cisco.com/web/consumer/products/settop-8550hdc.html) and Samsung's SMT-H3090 (http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/detail/features.do?group=audiovideo&type=digitalsettopbox&subtype=hdtvtuners&model_cd=SMT-H3050E/TWC) DVRs will speed things up :).

In one of my e-mails to Bob Barlow he said that they are testing the new Samsung boxes. I did ask about the SMT-H3090 and was vague about them in testing. I assume the SMT-H3090 is in testing.

I am also a TW San Diego customer. I have a SA8240 STB and an Apricorn dvd expander.
I have the exact same problem history as you do, but without the positive outcome. A cold reboot of the STB this morning did not correct the problem. Removing the expander does!

So it seems that ODN v3.1.0_7 bricks the eSATA integration.

http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/detail/detail.do?group=audiovideo&type=digitalsettopbox&subtype=hdtvtuners&model_cd=SMT-H3090/TWC

Link for the new Samsung SMT-H3090. This is going to replace the SA 8300/8240 Series boxes.

There is a major theory that CC on Navigator and the On With Mute Options are strongly controlled by the BOX. Not the TV. And I thought about this, because that third option under CC in Navigator is "On With Mute." But I presume that they are talking about the VOLUME and MUTE on the box. Not the Volume and Mute on your TV.

When you get cable for the first time the tech usually programs the Power On/Off buttons and Volume by punching in the code for your TV. This would over-ride the Mute/Volume settings for the box. BUT, if you pick up a box at a local TWC office for example, the settings are obviously set to control the box power and box volume only. In this case, you have to find the codes to do the following:

1.) Control Power On/Off to your TV and

2.) Control Volume to your TV

So what I am thinking is, people are getting the new C boxes through walk-in offices, and the CC works fine. People who have the non-C boxes that were originally installed by the cable guy are thinking their CC doesn't work because of the box. But maybe it's because THE BOX VOLUME/MUTE MUST BE SET TO CONTROL THE CABLE BOX'S OWN CC SYSTEM THROUGH ITS OWN VOLUME AND MUTE CONTROLS.

If your cable box is controlling the Volume and Mute Controls from your own TV. (you have programmed the TV code for this) than obviously, the CC option on the box to control its own CC especially in cases like "On With Mute" won't know what to do.

I have not tested out this theory, as now that I use my Dynamic Headphones I don't even need CC, but it seems to make sense.

Jack

Changing Volume to the box had no effect in restoring closed captioning. I can add to the confirmations of this forum that CC is known to be a bug with the non-C boxes, working only about 50% of the time. C boxes seem to be better at CC, but are often slower on commands and reboots.

Jack

http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/detail/detail.do?group=audiovideo&type=digitalsettopbox&subtype=hdtvtuners&model_cd=SMT-H3090/TWC

Link for the new Samsung SMT-H3090. This is going to replace the SA 8300/8240 Series boxes.


are they testing it someplace already?

i have 8300hdc, with a western digital expander attached.

im having a pip issue.

when i pause the current show, and switch to the pip, the show continues playing.

is anyone else seeing this?

are they testing it someplace already?

i have 8300hdc, with a western digital expander attached.

im having a pip issue.

when i pause the current show, and switch to the pip, the show continues playing.

is anyone else seeing this?

I e-mailed Bob Barlow the president of San Diego a while back and he said it's too early to tell when it's coming out. He did say that they are in testing. San Diego now has the manual for the Samsung SMT-H3050 HD STB so it's likely that they are going to deploy that box soon. I guess TWC is planning on moving to Samsung. Samsung is a key development parter to TWC. The SMT-H3050 is just your ordinary run of the mill OCAP HD STB. The SMT-H3090 will have MoCA and MPEG-4 support. It can also be ordered with a 320 GB HDD so you can record up to 40 hours of HD. Hope this helps.

My DVR was almost full tonight and while I was watching a recorded episode of True Blood I hit the guide to record another show in progress and it deleted the episode I was watching to make room.

That would make sense if space was extremely limited. The difference here? The episode I was watching was marked as "Do Not Delete." But it did anyway.

It even shows in the log as "Deleted to make room for another recording" and it's also marked there as a "Do Not Delete."

So it seems that protected recordings are not actually protected at all.

think: slower, more ANNOYING upselling, more draconian, and feature crippling like verizon wireless with phone firmware

it'll be a great piracy encouraging "upgrade"

FCC is imposing "open access" on mobile phone network providers... maybe they'll do the same to media providers, too, soon

We really need to keep petitioning TWC for a Keyboard Keyword Search function for Navigator! I was disappointed that the latest version released in San Diego and North Carolina did not have this feature included in the upgrade. Does anyone know if TWC plans to add Keyboard Keyword Search to Navigator? If I was on their engineering or software development team, this is a feature that I would push to be added!

Jack

We really need to keep petitioning TWC for a Keyboard Keyword Search function for Navigator! I was disappointed that the latest version released in San Diego and North Carolina did not have this feature included in the upgrade. Does anyone know if TWC plans to add Keyboard Keyword Search to Navigator? If I was on their engineering or software development team, this is a feature that I would push to be added!

Jack

Sadly I doubt it.However at this point us poor SARA users would just love Keyboard search and priority management.

Are you guys referring to "incremental search" (or "incremental find (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incremental_find)") when you say "keyboard search"? (As you enter a search term in one character increments, matches for the portion of the term entered so far are displayed in the results).

Are you guys referring to "incremental search" (or "incremental find (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incremental_find)") when you say "keyboard search"? (As you enter a search term in one character increments, matches for the portion of the term entered so far are displayed in the results).

Keyword search means if you type in cooking the dvr software will find you a cooking show anytime that word is used.Say Carolina Panthers and anytime a game or show about that team is aired it can be recorded.Say Harrison Ford and any of his movies may be recorded.That is keyword Search simular to Tivo wishlist.You can also set keyword to record jusat mvies or just series.Keyboarf search just finds the show or series you are looking for as you browse.Keyword finds it auto and records it..

Are you guys referring to "incremental search" (or "incremental find (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incremental_find)") when you say "keyboard search"? (As you enter a search term in one character increments, matches for the portion of the term entered so far are displayed in the results).I think they mean keyWORD search. If I want to see if my alma mater has a televised game, I have to go to my 8-year old DVR so I can search for the word "Missouri" in the program description.

Actually, Satch Man said "Keyboard Keyword Search", but I keep hearing people say "keyboard search".

There's "title search", which is a search on program titles (usually an incremental search) and there's "keyword search", which searches the title, description and possibly meta-data not visible in either; often keyword search on DVRs has an auto-record option. TiVo's "keyword search" is a compound search for Keyword, Title Keyword, Actor, Director and Category where you can name and save the search and use it again, with or without auto-recording ("HD science fiction movies featuring Tom Cruise"). They call it "Wishlist Search".

I don't really care what people call it--as long as I know what's being discussed :). "Keyboard Search" = "Keyword Search".

Keyword search means if you type in cooking the dvr software will find you a cooking show anytime that word is used.Say Carolina Panthers and anytime a game or show about that team is aired it can be recorded.Say Harrison Ford and any of his movies may be recorded.That is keyword Search similar to Tivo wish-list.You can also set keyword to record just movies or just series.Keyboard search just finds the show or series you are looking for as you browse.Keyword finds it auto and records it..

Yea, that's the search feature that Navigator does not have that I want back! (Passport had this.) BTW, what areas are still using Passport? I heard that TWC-Northern Wisconsin still does, with Navigator rumored to be released sometime between 1-2nd quarter of next year. All of Southern Wisconsin has Navigator.

Ben, and other Sara users. I HOPE you get a heads up response a good week to two weeks in advance for Navigator. Some of us got a phone call and flier, some of us only got a phone call, some of us got just a flier, and some people got nothing except Navigator starring them in the face after they turned on their TV's at about 4 in the morning! (no warning.)

What was funny was we got a flier that the change was coming about 3-5 days AFTER our box was converted! (Typical of TWC)

Jack

Actually, Satch Man said "Keyboard Keyword Search", but I keep hearing people say "keyboard search".

There's "title search", which is a search on program titles (usually an incremental search) and there's "keyword search", which searches the title, description and possibly meta-data not visible in either; often keyword search on DVRs has an auto-record option. TiVo's "keyword search" is a compound search for Keyword, Title Keyword, Actor, Director and Category where you can name and save the search and use it again, with or without auto-recording ("HD science fiction movies featuring Tom Cruise"). They call it "Wishlist Search".

I don't really care what people call it--as long as I know what's being discussed :). "Keyboard Search" = "Keyword Search".

Let me rephrase it.Passport and Tivo have both keyboard title and keyboard keyword search.Sara has neither.Navigator has keyboard title search but is missing keyboard keyword search.

BTW, what areas are still using Passport? I heard that TWC-Northern Wisconsin still does, with Navigator rumored to be released sometime between 1-2nd quarter of next year. All of Southern Wisconsin has Navigator.

Jack
Most of SoCal (around Los Angeles, not San Diego) still has Passport. Some are going SDV soon and are old Comcast. I would think they would change (or are changed). But, I think in majority we are Passport still. I have been following the Navigator thread for nearly two years when I heard we were going Navigator by the summer before last. Still not changed, but it is getting closer to maybe not be too big of a deal. /Dan

Let me rephrase it.Passport and Tivo have both keyboard title and keyboard keyword search.Sara has neither.Navigator has keyboard title search but is missing keyboard keyword search.The word "keyboard" seems extremely redundant to me. As opposed to "voice-entry keyword search"? Who cares what the mechanism for entering search terms is?

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/9135/imagesrw6.jpg

Noticed a new feature in ODN version 3.1.0_7 last night.

When the Navigator screen saver comes on it shows the above TW logo with the time below it. Previous versions had a long, horizontal grey box as I recall with some sort of instruction to hit play to go back to viewing programming. This new version is nicer looking.

The word "keyboard" seems extremely redundant to me. As opposed to "voice-entry keyword search"? Who cares what the mechanism for entering search terms is?

If no one cares lets stick to keyword search which most of us understand.Not trying to be snide but most of us untech folks understand keyword search better than other phrases.

His point is that there is a difference between the connotations. It matters not that - 1. most do not know the correct technical term, or even 2. how you want to think about it -- if you hope to have an implementation, the [engineers/coders] will code to the connotation they understand for the word you provide. You might want to define and employ a term that captures what you want in a way the [engineers/coders] understand.

There are at least three aspects that are sometimes confused due to semantics and connotation:
Type of search: Discrete vs. Incremental search.
Scope of search: Title vs. [Keyword searches including/excluding various guide fields]
Method of input: Keyboard vs. [Slot-machine looking interface] vs. [some other way]

v/r,
C-F

Yea, that's the search feature that Navigator does not have that I want back! (Passport had this.) BTW, what areas are still using Passport? I heard that TWC-Northern Wisconsin still does, with Navigator rumored to be released sometime between 1-2nd quarter of next year. All of Southern Wisconsin has Navigator.

Manhattan NYC is running both; however, since last summer or so, all boxes being given out are 8300HDCs running guess what.

Better still, they are having to live up to their promise of 100 by the end of the year, EXCEPT they split Manhattan into 2 segments, north and south. In the north (where I live) they are going to drop something like 70 new HD channels in 2 weeks or so. I was concerned that meant them dropping MDN on all our 8300HD boxes, but the word from my homies is that they dropped something like 40 analogs... so no need for SDV. However, they will have a HD PPV channel, BUT they say that if you want it, you have to swap one's current box for a ODN equipped 8300HDC. Which SEEMS to imply that channel is going to be SDV.

His point is that there is a difference between the connotations. It matters not that - 1. most do not know the correct technical term, or even 2. how you want to think about it -- if you hope to have an implementation, the [engineers/coders] will code to the connotation they understand for the word you provide. You might want to define and employ a term that captures what you want in a way the [engineers/coders] understand.

There are at least three aspects that are sometimes confused due to semantics and connotation:
Type of search: Discrete vs. Incremental search.
Scope of search: Title vs. [Keyword searches including/excluding various guide fields]
Method of input: Keyboard vs. [Slot-machine looking interface] vs. [some other way]

v/r,
C-F

Passport software calls it Keyword Search.Tivo calls it Wishlist Search.Which of these Interface giants discribes it best.Bye the way how did we get in a discussion over a name on a feature we all want.Call it dustpan alley and if it does what I want i'll be happy.

Passport software calls it Keyword Search.Tivo calls it Wishlist Search.Which of these Interface giants discribes it best.Bye the way how did we get in a discussion over a name on a feature we all want.Call it dustpan alley and if it does what I want i'll be happy.TiVo's Wishlist Search is a compound search with an order of magnitude more power than Passport's simple Keyword Search. As I said before, you can ask it to find "HD science fiction movies featuring Tom Cruise directed by Stephen Speilberg, whose titles contain the word 'war'". You can save them, name them and use them for future searches with or without setting up auto-recording. I have a saved, non-auto-recorded Wishlist Search for Tennis sports events which I use to find actual tournament coverage while skipping the tons of Tennis-related chaff on The Tennis Channel--not even vaguely possible with Passport).

TiVo's Wishlist Search is a compound search with an order of magnitude more power than Passport's simple Keyword Search. As I said before, you can ask it to find "HD science fiction movies featuring Tom Cruise directed by Stephen Speilberg, whose titles contain the word 'war'". You can save them, name them and use them for future searches with or without setting up auto-recording. I have a saved, non-auto-recorded Wishlist Search for Tennis sports events which I use to find actual tournament coverage while skipping the tons of Tennis-related chaff on The Tennis Channel--not even vaguely possible with Passport).

Granted Tivo is the Gold standard.Passport is useable.Sara search just forget it.Would be happy if Navigator could just get up to Passport standard.

sdv=???

sdv=???Switched Digital Video, a technology being deployed by the cable systems to optimize the use of bandwidth in their networks--see the article at Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched_digital_video) for details. In short, by only allocating bandwidth on the cable in your neighborhood for a channel if someone in your neighborhood (of, ideally, no more than 500 households) is viewing that channel, they can use a fraction so much bandwidth to provide access to a large number of channels as would be required if all of those channels were on the wire all of the time. In order to do this, cable tuners have to be able to send messages to the cable system to request channels--most current CableCARD equipment (like HD TiVo models) cannot do this, so they can't tune channels provided as switched broadcasts. A device is beginning to become available for TiVo to fix this limitation (a box called a Tuning Adapter), but most other legacy CableCARD equipment won't be able to use it.

TWC NYC has deployed the Samsung SMT-H3090 HD-DVR. It replaces the SA 8300/8240HD/HDC boxes. It's a nicer looking DVR and it still runs the ODN software. So if you are in the NYC TWC area you might be able to request one. Make sure your request the Samsung DVR. This is from a tech. San Diego probably won't deploy until next year.

TWC NYC has deployed the Samsung SMT-H3090 HD-DVR. It replaces the SA 8300/8240HD/HDC boxes. It's a nicer looking DVR and it still runs the ODN software. So if you are in the NYC TWC area you might be able to request one. Make sure your request the Samsung DVR. This is from a tech. San Diego probably won't deploy until next year.

Indeed I am very interested in the 3090. None of the regulars in the NYC TWC forum have one, so I am awaiting one of the regulars to get their hands on one. FWIW, they ARE deploying the Samsung non-DVR here... a few month ago my aunt had some issue and they swapped out a SA box for this non-DVR, ODN equipped Sammie; with a major bug... the banner displayed during channel changes is permanent (until you go back to the remote and hit exit; TWC told her she had to press Info twice to get rid of it!!).

Of course, TWC could very well cripple the hardware (like put in far less RAM, a smaller internal HD, prevent internal HD upgrades, prevent additional options for external drives to be connected).

Indeed I am very interested in the 3090. None of the regulars in the NYC TWC forum have one, so I am awaiting one of the regulars to get their hands on one. FWIW, they ARE deploying the Samsung non-DVR here... a few month ago my aunt had some issue and they swapped out a SA box for this non-DVR, ODN equipped Sammie; with a major bug... the banner displayed during channel changes is permanent (until you go back to the remote and hit exit; TWC told her she had to press Info twice to get rid of it!!).

Of course, TWC could very well cripple the hardware (like put in far less RAM, a smaller internal HD, prevent internal HD upgrades, prevent additional options for external drives to be connected).

a few month ago my aunt had some issue and they swapped out a SA box for this non-DVR, ODN equipped Sammie; with a major bug... the banner displayed during channel changes is permanent (until you go back to the remote and hit exit; TWC told her she had to press Info twice to get rid of it!!).

Well, that had better be a bug, or welcome to burn in! Is this confirmed as a bug? Did she get a different box?

Jack

Are they giving out Samsung SMT-H-3090in NYC.?? Can i just go down to 23st.??

The SMT-H3090 cannot be ordered with less than 384 MB of RAM. The HDD size can be 160 GB. I assume thats what they will order. ODN v3.1.0_7 has already ruined eSATA support. Maybe a later version will fix it. Samsung is a TWC partner so they will likely be suppling future TWC boxes.

TWC NYC has been deploying the SMT-H3050 for quite some time. I'm sure you can go to 23rd street and ask for it.

HAPPY THANKGIVEING TO AL L MY FRIENDS ON THE FORUM. May the only Navigator issues you have today be trips back and forth to the Thanksgiveing dinner table.Have a great day all!

Are they giving out Samsung SMT-H-3050 in NYC.?? Can i just go down to 23st.??

since they use the same software, the only real benefit (other than hd space) is speed?

i will probaly wait for the end of the tv season to upgrade.

btw, what is the size of the hd in the hdc?

since they use the same software, the only real benefit (other than hd space) is speed?

i will probaly wait for the end of the tv season to upgrade.

btw, what is the size of the hd in the hdc?You mean the HDD in the HDC :)? Almost always 160 MB.

Speed is a huge benefit for running the OCAP version of Navigator. It might make ODN actually usable. Now, I hit the guide button and it's several seconds before it appears.

MDN, on the other hand, is much speedier. I was at someone's house for dinner today and they were running it on an old Explorer 3250HD and it was just fine.

Speed is a huge benefit for running the OCAP version of Navigator. It might make ODN actually usable. Now, I hit the guide button and it's several seconds before it appears.That's odd. My guide responds almost immediately. In fact, pretty much all function are very responsive. I'm not sure why the same HW/SW combination wouldn't operate at the same speed.

That's odd. My guide responds almost immediately. In fact, pretty much all function are very responsive. I'm not sure why the same HW/SW combination wouldn't operate at the same speed.

In my case, the guide usually takes a long time to load on the first use of it since a reboot, but later uses are much speedier. My guess is that on the first use, the code has not been recompiled by the Java virtual machine's just-in-time compiler into native machine code. Subsequent uses can use the already recompiled code stored in memory, making it faster.

Rarely, it will take a long time to run after the first use. My guess is that Java's garbage collector is busy freeing up leaked memory, consolidating memory that is in use, and updating pointers to the memory structures that have been moved around. Unfortunately, this task must be run to completion whenever it starts because this task creates temporary nonsense (pointers pointing to the wrong areas of memory) that must be cleaned up before the program can continue running. If I am correct, this means that either you were unlucky because the box thought that it had some idle time to perform this housekeeping task due to your inactivity, or something tried to create an object that was too big for any remaining chunk of free memory to hold, and therefore the memory must be cleaned up to allow this object to be created.

A third reason could be the number of channels your box must assemble to build the guide. More channels logically could mean more load time.

That's odd. My guide responds almost immediately. In fact, pretty much all function are very responsive. I'm not sure why the same HW/SW combination wouldn't operate at the same speed.I recently moved and have seen exactly the same kind of response on two different boxes in two different homes in different neighborhoods. It does not appear to get any faster over time. If you hit the INFO button, it also takes quite a while to respond.

It wouldn't be so bad if they had an LED or something on the front panel which blinked to acknowledge receipt of commands, like TiVo. Since you can't be sure that it heard you, the urge to punch the button again is difficult to resist, and it will often register that command as well, causing it to bring the guide up for a second then immediately take it down :rolleyes:.

Well, that had better be a bug, or welcome to burn in! Is this confirmed as a bug? Did she get a different box?

Jack

No... I failed to note the model number, but it was a Samsung and was not a DVR. When she called them, they said she must press Info twice to get rid of the banner, kinda indicating they knew about the issue.

The SMT-H3090 cannot be ordered with less than 384 MB of RAM. The HDD size can be 160 GB. I assume thats what they will order. ODN v3.1.0_7 has already ruined eSATA support. Maybe a later version will fix it. Samsung is a TWC partner so they will likely be suppling future TWC boxes.

TWC NYC has been deploying the SMT-H3050 for quite some time. I'm sure you can go to 23rd street and ask for it.

Damn... eSATA support is very important, especially given that my market is SUPPOSED to get a heavy influx of HD channels (70+ dropping in 3 weeks).

I take it the 3050 is the non-DVR box?

What is the diffrent between the Samsung H3050 and the H3090??

Sansung H3090 is an DVR, the H3050 currently under test isn't...

So in all likelihood the non DVR Samsung I saw at my aunt's is a 3050. Has a major bug (ODN software) in that the banner that pops up between channel changes NEVER GOES AWAY. You have to pick up the remote and hit keys for it to go away (TWC told her press Info twice, I found just one press of the Exit button dismissed it).

The SMT-H3090 cannot be ordered with less than 384 MB of RAM. The HDD size can be 160 GB. I assume thats what they will order. ODN v3.1.0_7 has already ruined eSATA support. Maybe a later version will fix it. Samsung is a TWC partner so they will likely be suppling future TWC boxes.

TWC NYC has been deploying the SMT-H3050 for quite some time. I'm sure you can go to 23rd street and ask for it.

What about the 3090 do they have that too??:cool:

A Bkyln tech said that NYC is the only region that has them. I'm still waiting for our division to get them. They are still using Cisco. I hear that all divisions will migrate to Samsung. Other divisions are still testing them :(.

So in all likelihood the non DVR Samsung I saw at my aunt's is a 3050. Has a major bug (ODN software) in that the banner that pops up between channel changes NEVER GOES AWAY. You have to pick up the remote and hit keys for it to go away (TWC told her press Info twice, I found just one press of the Exit button dismissed it).

Certainly a bug, And a major one.

Future users if you see this, please report it. This really needs to be corrected. What are her Banner Duration settings at? If the Samsung Banner Duration, had an "Always Show", that would be very strange, and that would be the setting to change.

But this still sounds like a bug.

Jack

Certainly a bug, And a major one.

Future users if you see this, please report it. This really needs to be corrected. What are her Banner Duration settings at? If the Samsung Banner Duration, had an "Always Show", that would be very strange, and that would be the setting to change.

But this still sounds like a bug.

Jack

What is curious is I posted about this a while ago and can't recall anyone confirming it. FWIW I DID pour through the various settings more than once and couldn't find ANY setting dealing with banners... much less their duration.

Does anyone know how to get to the software versions on an ODN equipped Samsung box?

im i twc brooklyn subscriber with an hdc bow. attached to said box, is a western digital expander.

anyhow, was wondering if any one else is seeing the following.

watching a pvred show and pip. i pause the show im watching and switch to the pip. the paused show is no longer is paused.

switching between pip a couple of times causes everything to go black for about a min (at least that is how long it feels). when it "wakes" up, the pvred show is now playing at the beginning. if i switch again, the pvr show goes back to where i left off when everything went black.

just wondering if this my setup or if others are seeing this.

thanks.

ODN and MDN have a diagnostic mode. Press select until a message light. Then hold down until the diag screen loads up. ODN is page 1 while MDN is page 12 or 13.

ODN and MDN have a diagnostic mode. Press select until a message light. Then hold down until the diag screen loads up. ODN is page 1 while MDN is page 12 or 13.MDN has one set of diagnostics accessed as you described (somewhere between 24 and 28 pages worth) and ODN has two sets, hardware diags and software diags--I think the one accessed by the procedure you gave is software. I forget how to bring up the other set.

EDIT: I found some instructions for activating the ODN hardware diags in this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13468589#post13468589) post.

This thread badly needs a "Tips and Tricks" post, with a link to it added to the top post, like this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4547722&highlight=guide+tips#post4547722) one in the Passport thread. I'd create one, but I don't use Navigator on a regular basis (ODN is running on a box connected to a big panel in the den, but I mostly watch television on a TiVo Series3 in my personal space).

This thread badly needs a "Tips and Tricks" post, with a link to it added to the top post, like this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4547722&highlight=guide+tips#post4547722) one in the Passport thread. I'd create one, but I don't use Navigator on a regular basis (ODN is running on a box connected to a big panel in the den, but I mostly watch television on a TiVo Series3 in my personal space).

I attempted to start one a long time ago.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13819253

I attempted to start one a long time ago.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13819253That'll do, for a start. I'd edit it to rename it something more general like "Navigator Tips & Tricks" and get petition jacksonian (or possibly a moderator) to add a link to it to the top post, or even to add the information to the top post as long as he's willing to commit to modifying it as necessary.

If you can think of other undocumented features and/or work-arounds to problems, add them to the list, with a request for others to PM you with things that they've discovered to be added.

That'll do, for a start. I'd edit it to rename it something more general like "Navigator Tips & Tricks" and get petition jacksonian (or possibly a moderator) to add a link to it to the top post, or even to add the information to the top post as long as he's willing to commit to modifying it as necessary.

If you can think of other undocumented features and/or work-arounds to problems, add them to the list, with a request for others to PM you with things that they've discovered to be added.

thats just a link to some posts earlier in this thread. the tips are great but i don't think anyone can rename the middle of a thread from TWC navigator to tips and tricks.
we really need to start a new tips and tricks thread then have it linked in the first post of this thread. the new tips and tricks thread could simply be a few links to those posts as a starter.

I'm sure that mod can rename a post if we ask nicely :).

None of the other IPGs (Passport, SARA) has a separate thread for Tips & Tricks. The most active SARA thread has all of the information in the top post and the Passport thread has it's Tips & Tricks post with a link to it in the top post. IMHO it helps to have all of the information concentrated in a single post, either by editing the top post to add it or by placing pointers to information in other posts in the top post.

People ask questions that have been answered before, we can give them a link to a post that contains that information and more. We can always find that post because it's It's worked out well in other discussions.

Question About TWC Start Over Service:

According to information from the TWC New York City correspondence, the new Start Over feature requires an HD box and the OCAP version of Navigator:

Is this b.s from TWC, or true?

Does this mean that anyone with the older (MDN boxes) with Navigator, will NOT be able to get Start Over? Or another way to put this:

Does anyone with the Navigator Guide have Start Over on their MDN (no C boxes?)

Jack

Jack, I don't know how Navigator handles it, but we just recently got Start Over here and it works on all the boxes deployed in our area that I've seen. All are running a version of Sara and many have no CableCard and are NOT HD.

I'm sure that mod can rename a post if we ask nicely :).



sorry, i read your post as saying to change the name of the thread to tips and tricks........not the title heading on the post. thus why i said i don't think anyone can rename the middle of a thread from TWC navigator to tips and tricks.:)

Jack, I don't know how Navigator handles it, but we just recently got Start Over here and it works on all the boxes deployed in our area that I've seen. All are running a version of Sara and many have no CableCard and are NOT HD.

Thanks Ben,

Some areas of New York with Navigator and Start Over are saying that you need an HD TV/Box as well as an OCAP (C-box.) Other areas in Texas with Start Over enabled are seem to imply that it works on all boxes. Start Over has been around for at least a year, almost two years in some divisions. I don't know why they would have those "requirements" for New York Navigator subs. My only guess? They are updating the OCAP boxes first and and the Mystro boxes second. No word on Navigator for you yet? That's probably a good thing! hahaha.

Does anyone know how many C-boxes were deployed before the July 1, 2007 mandate?

Jack

Thanks Ben,
My only guess? They are updating the OCAP boxes first and and the Mystro boxes second. No word on Navigator for you yet? That's probably a good thing! hahaha.

Does anyone know how many C-boxes were deployed before the July 1, 2007 mandate?

Jack

Jack, are you sure this isn't the area of New York that Riverside Guy is in? In his area 8300HDs are still running Passport and HDCs are running Navigator. That would make sense...

xnappo

Jack, are you sure this isn't the area of New York that Riverside Guy is in? In his area 8300HDs are still running Passport and HDCs are running Navigator. That would make sense...

xnappo

That's what I thought. You know this could be the case: Here is where I got the info from. (Check the bottom of the page, where Start Over is discussed.)

http://www.timewarnercable.com/nynj/Products/Cable/Start_Over/default.html

This is for New York City. But Ben I recall that you said that even within different areas of New York City, there are many different nodes and subdivisions within a single division.

We have learned that Sara already has the necessary 2 way interactive services to run the Start Over software. Navigator does as well. Passport would have, but TWC refused to pay for the software upgrade.

Just to compare, here is Texas' TWC website discussion of Start-Over, and they are totally Navigator. Nowhere in that site does it say that an HD TV/HD C-box are required for Start Over service:

http://www.timewarnercable.com/centraltx/Products/Cable/Start_Over/default.html?menu=29946

So I think you are right about this.

Maybe the delay of Navigator in Ben's area, is because Sara already has the two-way interactive services in place to deploy those features.

Jack

Just to compare, here is Texas' TWC website discussion of Start-Over, and they are totally Navigator. Nowhere in that site does it say that an HD TV/HD C-box are required for Start Over service:

http://www.timewarnercable.com/centraltx/Products/Cable/Start_Over/default.html?menu=29946
Jack

Jack, I am in Texas (central Texas, Austin) and we are 100% SARA for now anyway.

xnappo

Jack, I am in Texas (central Texas, Austin) and we are 100% SARA for now anyway.

xnappo

Thanks for that info,

There sure is A LOT of disparity and discretion with regards to who has what. Remember when Navigator was supposed to centralize everything? Well, that clearly has not happened. If SARA is working well on those systems, those divisions should certainly not change to Navigator. However, I have a feeling they will anyway. It will just be later than sooner.

Jack

Thanks for that info,

There sure is A LOT of disparity and discretion with regards to who has what. Remember when Navigator was supposed to centralize everything? Well, that clearly has not happened. If SARA is working well on those systems, those divisions should certainly not change to Navigator. However, I have a feeling they will anyway. It will just be later than sooner.

Jack

Yep. My sources suggest we may start seeing Navigator here in Q209. They have been testing it for a while. If it weren't for the recent re-breaking of eSATA(even if only in ODN), I might actually be looking forward to it.

I think the need to order new boxes, and those boxes likely being from Samsung, will push the issue in SARA areas.

xnappo

Yep. My sources suggest we may start seeing Navigator here in Q209. They have been testing it for a while. If it weren't for the recent re-breaking of eSATA(even if only in ODN), I might actually be looking forward to it.

I think the need to order new boxes, and those boxes likely being from Samsung, will push the issue in SARA areas.

xnappo

Samsung is already supplying the SMT-H3090 in NYC. The SMT-H3090 will replace the 8300/8240HD/HDC DVR's.

Samsung is already supplying the SMT-H3090 in NYC. The SMT-H3090 will replace the 8300/8240HD/HDC DVR's.

Right - that is what I am saying. In Austin Navigator hasn't rolled out, but if they need more boxes and are told by corporate to order Samsung boxes, that will force a roll out.

xnappo

I may be wrong but isnt Navigator and Mystro the same ???

I may be wrong but isnt Navigator and Mystro the same ???The codename for the project which produced it was "Mystro". The original C-language version is called "Mystro Digital Navigator" (MDN) and the newer version, rewritten in Java to run on tru2way devices is called "OCAP Digital Navigator" (ODN).

They must be testing them. I bet it will happen next year. TWC San Diego is still testing the Samsung boxes. I guess that the SMT-H3050 will be deployed soon but not the DVR. I bet by 2010 that Passport and SARA will be gone save for moto areas.

Has anyone ever heard facts or rumours as to why TWC moved from the wonderful passport to the ridiculous navigator, it almost seems to me that either they let a 2 year old set it up or they really do hate their customers. I've had it for a year and I conplain about it to my wife still at least once a week, what gives?

Fact is the main reasons why TWC switched is they wanted an in house guide they have complete control over and didn't have to pay licensing fees for. This allows them to roll out new features and enhancements without waiting for a third party to program it. The other reason was to implement SDV in order to offer expanded HD lineups. (Note: Passport now supports SDV). All the reasons TWC had to switch the software were completely valid ones intended to benefit the consumer, but the implementation has failed miserably and the transition was handled horribly. I think if they did deliver a new guide with new features that at least met or exceeded Passport it would have been widely accepted (even praised if the result was more HD content!) Just my 2 cents.

Jack, are you sure this isn't the area of New York that Riverside Guy is in? In his area 8300HDs are still running Passport and HDCs are running Navigator. That would make sense...

xnappo

Exactly. My guess is they may not do any MDN deployment as they are showering us with new HD channels (71) in 2 weeks BY dropping about 40 analog channels (no need for SDV). They HAVE told me the ONLY way to get Start Over or Phone ID on screen would be to trade my box in for a ODN driven 8300HDC... and to make things more confusing, we are reading they may start deploying a Samsung 3090 DVR box (nobody has posted they actually have one).

From more than one person we are reading the latest ODN bricks the eSATA port, so that's an option I will not go for.

Samsung is already supplying the SMT-H3090 in NYC. The SMT-H3090 will replace the 8300/8240HD/HDC DVR's.

That 3090 sure has some impressive specs... looks very exciting. BUT I'm going to hold off until we have someone in the NYC thread who actually has one... except I find the breaking of the eSATA port to kill the notion of having one.

FWIW, the non DVR Samsung (3050 I think) is being deployed, I have touched on at my aunt's house. BUT it has a major bug as the banner doesn't go away, one has to hit addition buttons on the remote to get rid of it. My guess is it's a software, not a hardware issue.

Fact is the main reasons why TWC switched is they wanted an in house guide they have complete control over and didn't have to pay licensing fees for. This allows them to roll out new features and enhancements without waiting for a third party to program it. The other reason was to implement SDV in order to offer expanded HD lineups. (Note: Passport now supports SDV). All the reasons TWC had to switch the software were completely valid ones intended to benefit the consumer, but the implementation has failed miserably and the transition was handled horribly. I think if they did deliver a new guide with new features that at least met or exceeded Passport it would have been widely accepted (even praised if the result was more HD content!) Just my 2 cents.

First, I don''t think the Passport version they have deployed has SDV capabilities and I doubt it ever will (hell, they've know full well about the live buffer bug for 2 years and have not fixed or addressed the issue at all). Not sure about other markets, but it appears we are getting something like 71 new HD channel in 2 weeks... and according to what I read, no force deployment of MDN on our older 8300HD boxes. Dropping 40 of our 70 something analogs sure makes more than enough room for the 100 HDs we supposedly will have on 12/18.

I THINK that we will get one SDV channel... I think it will be for PPV HD movies. According to them, it is ONLY avaialble of "new" boxes, which means ODN driven 8300HDC.

For clarification: I was implying that all versions of Passport deployed at the time of the switch couldn't handle SDV. This was a reason given by TWC for the switch to Navigator. TWC didn't want to pay for and re-license Passport for the SDV support to be added. What I meant was that Passport has since added SDV compatibility to the software on their own. I should have been more clear.

FWIW, the non DVR Samsung (3050 I think) is being deployed, I have touched on at my aunt's house. BUT it has a major bug as the banner doesn't go away, one has to hit addition buttons on the remote to get rid of it. My guess is it's a software, not a hardware issue.

Remember everyone, let us know if this bug shows up on your new Samsung boxes when/if you get them and give us the model number. AFAIK, Riverside Guy's description of this bug has not shown up with this model on other forums. But that's pretty $hitty software design if such a bug exists.

They are just starting with the Samsung's here in Milwaukee, but some offices are still giving out SA's. I just hope the Samsung's aren't, in terms of bugs, Navigator #2 if you know what I mean, LOL! That banner bug does NOT exactly restore my faith and confidence in this new box. But let's just hope that it is an isolated incident.

Jack

They HAVE told me the ONLY way to get Start Over or Phone ID on screen would be to trade my box in for a ODN driven 8300HDC.

Here in Wisconsin with Navigator on my SA 8300, Start Over is not out yet, but we have the Digital Cable/Digital Phone/Road Runner Consolidated Package and we have Caller ID on TV. They even deployed it last year on some Passport boxes. (including our own before the Navigator change over.) But the little Caller ID on TV icon would go away for days at a time and than other times shrink to the size of a postage stamp. This bug was fixed with the new version of Passport, but TWC changed the Caller ID software for Navigator and maybe from time to time it goes out for a day or two but than comes back like nothing happened. Caller ID on TV does show up about 80-90% of the time.

What I would like to see is a cable system or operator that paid Aptiv TV/Passport for the updates, just to see what they are getting now in terms of more features or channels compared to other SARA/Navigator IPG's. Than to study, how does the SDV technology compare with a fully updated Passport System, an updated Navigator, and an updated SARA? For example are other IPG's getting more HD content and features just because they have been through the pacing of better quality control testing than Navigator? Navigator's had such a negative evaluation for two years, that it is only now that it is just getting up to tolerable levels. But it's still a ways to go. Nobody loves TWC because of Navigator!

And why did San Diego and North Carolina get a new Navigator GUI for MDN boxes, and it might have been deployed for OCAP as well and no one else did? Unless they are going to do a big SDV/HD channel push across markets and than change to the new GUI.

I think something will happen before New Year's. It just sucks that we have to hire private detectives to find out what's going on!

Jack

Nobody loves TWC because of Navigator!

Jack

But a lot of folks HATE them because of it! And with good reason...

In my business, I am a HUGE supporter of the rolling your own approach. I KNOW the trick is getting the right people. At one senior level job, I got them to approve a programmer for my staff. I was able to get a LOT of really, really good stuff done with just he and I... and this is in an organization that typically sends tens to hundreds of thousands on consultants who tell them they need to spend millions.

So the approach to roll their own software IS a good move for TWC. The problem was, is and always will be that they have the 100% wrong people running the show. Making all the 100% wrong decisions.

I actually think that Navigator is starting to shape up. I like the adjustment to the color scheme a lot--now it looks good and has a decent set of capabilities. Of course, Passport 2 years ago had everything that it can do and more (though most TWC divisions never rolled out anything close to that version); it had Caller-ID and several other features, and they had an OCAP version back then. The current tru2way version of Passport (http://www.macrovision.com/products/system_operators/ipg_so/passport_tru2way.htm) looks to be way, way pass that--it probably runs smoothly even on the Explorer 8300HDC :D.

Here in Wisconsin with Navigator on my SA 8300, Start Over is not out yet, but we have the Digital Cable/Digital Phone/Road Runner Consolidated Package and we have Caller ID on TV. They even deployed it last year on some Passport boxes. (including our own before the Navigator change over.) But the little Caller ID on TV icon would go away for days at a time and than other times shrink to the size of a postage stamp. This bug was fixed with the new version of Passport, but TWC changed the Caller ID software for Navigator and maybe from time to time it goes out for a day or two but than comes back like nothing happened. Caller ID on TV does show up about 80-90% of the time.

What I would like to see is a cable system or operator that paid Aptiv TV/Passport for the updates, just to see what they are getting now in terms of more features or channels compared to other SARA/Navigator IPG's. Than to study, how does the SDV technology compare with a fully updated Passport System, an updated Navigator, and an updated SARA? For example are other IPG's getting more HD content and features just because they have been through the pacing of better quality control testing than Navigator? Navigator's had such a negative evaluation for two years, that it is only now that it is just getting up to tolerable levels. But it's still a ways to go. Nobody loves TWC because of Navigator!

And why did San Diego and North Carolina get a new Navigator GUI for MDN boxes, and it might have been deployed for OCAP as well and no one else did? Unless they are going to do a big SDV/HD channel push across markets and than change to the new GUI.

I think something will happen before New Year's. It just sucks that we have to hire private detectives to find out what's going on!

Jack

I know SARA is soon going the way of Passport.However has anyone received the new version of SARA that allows multible bookmarks>I saw on the sara thread some cable companys are releaseing the new improved version of sara.

I think if they did deliver a new guide with new features that at least met or exceeded Passport it would have been widely accepted (even praised if the result was more HD content!

A lot of people simply cannot handle change, they would complain forever no matter what they were given. They want all kinds of new features, but "don't you dare change anything".

I actually think that Navigator is starting to shape up. I like the adjustment to the color scheme a lot--now it looks good

The new look is definately an improvement, but the color palette is a bit much, IMHO. There are too many contrasting colors without any unifying 'scheme'. That may work for Speed Racer, but not for a GUI:p. Two or three different options would be nice, but at this point I just want to damn box to record consistantly.

The new look is definitely an improvement, but the color palette is a bit much, IMHO. There are too many contrasting colors without any unifying 'scheme'. That may work for Speed Racer, but not for a GUI:p. Two or three different options would be nice, but at this point I just want to damn box to record consistently.

I also heard that some external drives do not work with this new version of Navigator. They may have to do an "update to the update" to get that linkage going again.

Can we get a list of States that have this new version for reference, and who is scheduled to get it next? So far I know of San Diego California and North Carolina. (I do not know what cities in NC are effected.)

Jack

I also heard that some external drives do not work with this new version of Navigator. They may have to do an "update to the update" to get that linkage going again.

Can we get a list of States that have this new version for reference, and who is scheduled to get it next? So far I know of San Diego California and North Carolina. (I do not know what cities in NC are effected.)

Jack

Cary, NC is definitely not in the list of this latest version of ODN just yet because I still have ODN 2.4.10_11.

The new look is definately an improvement, but the color palette is a bit much, IMHO. There are too many contrasting colors without any unifying 'scheme'. That may work for Speed Racer, but not for a GUI:p.I disagree--I think that there's just enough contrast and that the set of colors was tastefully selected. The old, many shades of blue on blue scheme was severely eye-straining. Works for gift wrap, maybe, but not for a GUI.

There's no pleasing everyone and I doubt that you object to the new scheme nearly so much as those who had difficulty simply reading text one the old one :).

In any case, my point is that it now looks much more the part of a decent IPG. I suspect that it will harbor severe functional bugs for quite some time to come. (Even my beloved Passport Echo went through about a year with several severely disfunctional releases, and San Diego, apparently being one of the guinea pig markets, got them all :rolleyes:).

I wonder what's going on in Nebraska with Navigator? They were the first to get those early versions and many users were the originators of this thread two years ago. I wonder if things got better in that division or if Nebraska people just stopped posting?

It's always good to hear of any improvements or new features that may be coming in the future.

Jack

I wonder what's going on in Nebraska with Navigator? They were the first to get those early versions and many users were the originators of this thread two years ago. I wonder if things got better in that division or if Nebraska people just stopped posting?

It's always good to hear of any improvements or new features that may be coming in the future.

Jack

I don't know, but I believe quite a few people probably switched providers. I too, would be interested to hear what the current state of Navigator is. I mean, I'm actually anxious to get it here because I'm just about ready to switch to DirecTV. I really would like to give Navigator a whirl because TWC in NY seems to be adding some good HD channels this month. Plus, if it was that bad it would be easier to convince the wife! (She still is sat-shy from the rain fade issues we had years back with Dish).

Screenshots of the new GUI?

Sure... here you go.

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7930/img0169sg1.jpg

This is the main recording screen.


http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/9016/img0170kg1.jpg

This is to record just one show (no series).


http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/4697/img0171fh0.jpg

This is the series recording options.

Here are screenshots, above.

And the link below, (sorry that I didn't synchronize this more logically,) will take you to a pic of the Main Grid Screen.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=122190&d=1224185415

This is what San Diego users got and some sections of North Carolina. Other cities may have this new version, but no one has posted this to the forums.

Jack

There's no pleasing everyone and I doubt that you object to the new scheme nearly so much as those who had difficulty simply reading text one the old one :).


Don't get me wrong, it's a great improvement, and I can certainly live with it. However, it just looks a bit simple and cartoonish, not as nice as the old Passport GUI, and a far cry from a Tivo or PS3.

I would also love to have an HD specific GUI in 16:9 with smaller fonts. It's frustrating having my screen only partially filled with huge text when I know much more info could be fit on screen. But I know that's just way to much to ask for :rolleyes:. With a single GUI, TW has to accomodate grandma with 20/200 vision and a 20" CRT.

Don't get me wrong, it's a great improvement, and I can certainly live with it. However, it just looks a bit simple and cartoonish, not as nice as the old Passport GUI, and a far cry from a Tivo or PS3.




Cartoonish maybe, but that's a massive step up from the SARA GUI.

Don't get me wrong, it's a great improvement, and I can certainly live with it. However, it just looks a bit simple and cartoonish, not as nice as the old Passport GUI, and a far cry from a Tivo or PS3.We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't see anything cartoonish about it and I don't think that Passport was any more attractive. TiVo (which I use mostly) is highly functional, but kind of ugly and dated and infuriatingly lacking some simple features, like any indication in the guide that a program is scheduled to be recorded :rolleyes:.

Here's an image of the Passport guide. What about it seems less colorful or cartoonish to you than Navigator?

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/508/passport_guide.JPG
EDIT: Looking at the two side-by-side, Navigator is strongly derivative of Passport's graphic motif. They even copied that slanted left edge of the frame around the dialogs, though not quite as pronounced. The presentation of the station ID, channel number and current time in the video inset is nearly identical. If I were Macrovision, I'd consider an infringement suit :).

Here's an image of the Passport guide. What about it seems less colorful or cartoonish to you than Navigator?


Seeing them side by side, I guess the only thing that really bugs me about Navigator is the yellow highlight with black text for the selection row against blue background with white text. Yellow and blue (as well as Red and green) are opponant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opponent_process)colors. Yes, it stands out, but it's much too contrasting, IMO, and the real root of my cartoonish comment. I'm not a color scientist or human factors expert, but have taken classes in both fields. Such a high color contrast is usefull to grab your attention, as an emergency indicator, for example, but is too much for something you are continually looking at, at least to me. Also, I have an SXRD with somewhat oversaturated primaries which probably doesn't help my situation!

Passport's darkened selection row is much easier on my eyes. Also, providing a few alternative color schemes, like I remember Passport did, would be nice. I don't use Tivo myself, but I remember it looking nice on the occaisions I've seen it, maybe it's not so nice in practice. Sony's PS3 "cross-bar" GUI is highly functional, and very customizable, but I don't know how well that would port to a DVR application.

Maybe the next update for Navigator will be for users to change the color schemes. They would have to get the current new version rolled out nationwide first.

Jack

Navigator rolled out last night in the West Valley (San Fernando Valley). My 8300HD powered off at around 2:30 AM and did the switch. I was under the impression that my recordings would have been deleted, however they're still here. It's going to take a little bit of getting used to... big improvement on the interface front, however... I want my 15-min FF/RW back.

I was under the impression that my recordings would have been deleted, however they're still here.

No, but you probably have lost series recordings for which there is no upcoming program in the guide.

I want my 15-min FF/RW back.

It's still there, you have to hold the FF or RW buttons down; less convienient, but it works.

Don't get me wrong, it's a great improvement, and I can certainly live with it. However, it just looks a bit simple and cartoonish, not as nice as the old Passport GUI, and a far cry from a Tivo or PS3.

I would also love to have an HD specific GUI in 16:9 with smaller fonts. It's frustrating having my screen only partially filled with huge text when I know much more info could be fit on screen. But I know that's just way to much to ask for :rolleyes:. With a single GUI, TW has to accomodate grandma with 20/200 vision and a 20" CRT.

Navigator does support 16:9 but the current boxes don't support it. I have seen the ODN the OCAP/tru2way version on a Samsung DLP that was 16:9. Next year new boxes and even TV's will be able to support 16:9. The 16:9 UI didn't show more information though. The Samsung SMT-H3090 is the box that will replace the Cisco/SA DVR's and possibly the Moto ones. It has a BCM7405 chip that supposedly can do the guide in widescreen. Just some information on a widescreen version of navigator.

Navigator rolled out last night in the West Valley (San Fernando Valley). My 8300HD powered off at around 2:30 AM and did the switch. I was under the impression that my recordings would have been deleted, however they're still here. It's going to take a little bit of getting used to... big improvement on the interface front, however... I want my 15-min FF/RW back.

Wait'll you find out about the rewind jumpback "feature"; ah, good times await! ;)

Seeing them side by side, I guess the only thing that really bugs me about Navigator is the yellow highlight with black text for the selection row against blue background with white text. Yellow and blue (as well as Red and green) are opponant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opponent_process)colors. Yes, it stands out, but it's much too contrasting, IMO, and the real root of my cartoonish comment. I'm not a color scientist or human factors expert, but have taken classes in both fields. Such a high color contrast is usefull to grab your attention, as an emergency indicator, for example, but is too much for something you are continually looking at, at least to me.

I think the new color scheme is fine. The black adjustment divides elements and the custard yellow is great choice for a UI design. It's complimentary to blue and provides good contrast which is exactly what you need. When you are trying to direct the user towards an action they are supposed to be taking, a highly contrasting color is the way to go and yellow is a color which translates into "pay attention to this." It also links it to the A button as something that the user should interact with to do something positive.

You are never "continually looking at" the yellow. It's only active when you are attempting to perform an action. If the background was yellow then it would be a problem, as it is the yellow is a highlight and that's exactly what it needs.

And Tivo by design is the definition of cartoonish for a UI. With it's big family friendly colored icons, bubble boxes and cheery logo.

TWC Passport was a pretty design years ago and the font use is still better than Nav, but it looks clunky now. The T2W version is slicker but they've gone the way of Navigator with a monochromatic blue on blue on blue.

Navigator rolled out last night in the West Valley (San Fernando Valley). My 8300HD powered off at around 2:30 AM and did the switch. I was under the impression that my recordings would have been deleted, however they're still here. It's going to take a little bit of getting used to... big improvement on the interface front, however... I want my 15-min FF/RW back.

15-minute FF/RW is done by pressing and holding fast forward or rewind until the 15-minute skip is performed.

Navigator does support 16:9 but the current boxes don't support it. I have seen the ODN the OCAP/tru2way version on a Samsung DLP that was 16:9. Next year new boxes and even TV's will be able to support 16:9. The 16:9 UI didn't show more information though. The Samsung SMT-H3090 is the box that will replace the Cisco/SA DVR's and possibly the Moto ones. It has a BCM7405 chip that supposedly can do the guide in widescreen. Just some information on a widescreen version of navigator.


Thanks for the info!

I am aware that the IPG is only 4:3 even on a 16:9 HD TV. However, does that restriction apply to ALL Navigator programing? In other words, with the current boxes in circulation, changing Navigator's video output to 16:9 has no effect, even on a HD box?/HDTV That sounds pretty stupid! (at least from a design standpoint!)

At least Navigator SEEMS to automatically change the picture resolution to support HD channel broadcasts.

Jack

The 16:9 navigator was in a presentation from Samsung. It showed the Samsung OCAP DLP with ODN shown in widescreen. Yep the current boxes just aren't designed for widescreen. We'll see if the SMT-H3090 fixes this. The Cisco 85xx support 960x540 which is a 16:9 resolution. Yea but the SA8300/8240's basic design is at least 4 years old. Yes changing the aspect ratio to 16:9 still shows the guide in 4:3. Even passport does it. I too am looking forward to the new Samsung boxes especially if they have a 320 GB HDD which is the maximum that Samsung allows. There is no RF modulator in the SMT-H3090 AFAIK.

I got "gatored" again last night on my SA8300HDC DVR. After a couple weeks of being able to record on my eSATA drive with no problems, another update was pushed down at 4:20AM this morning.

Anyway, I am screwed again, even worse. This version change is 3.1.0_11 dated 11/26/2008, Everything I recorded in the last 2 weeks is gone. Symptoms are exactly the same as I reported in a previous post above. All recordings show in the "List" but none will play (including those recorded on the DVR internal drive). Just a blank screen. Manual "Record" function does not work. No live buffering. Rebooting with the eSATA drive disconnected restores all functionality to the DVR, but all my programming on the expansion drive is inaccessible, only those recorded on the internal drive are available on the "Show List" and they play fine. I'm going to leave the eSATA disconnected until I fill up the internal drive, now, just to minimize the damages when they do this again.

I believe one bug in ver. 3.1.0_7 was fixed by this update, which is that when viewing the guide or any other menu, the picture was not shrinking to the upper right quadrant while the menu was being displayed. The display previously stayed at full size while the menu was on screen (blocking most of it from view). Now with this version, the program shrinks to occupy the window in the upper right corner, so at least you can still see what is going on with your program while looking thru the guide.

The eSATA capability is not totally gone from this version of the ODN software, but it is a little more broken than the last 3.1.0_7 version. This time, when I hook up the eSATA drive, it recognizes the free space and will use it, but the live buffering and the ability to use the manual "Record" button functionality are gone.

Pissed off by TWC in San Diego again,
TT

Seems far more likely to me it's more about the software supporting (or not) a 16:9 guide than the hardware. When the cableco sends a real 16:9, it shows as real 16:9 on my HDTV.

My guess is there may be one chance in 700 billion that TWC will distribute the 3090 w/320G drives! If they DO, I'd be be the first singing their praise...

ttweed,

Sorry to hear you've become the nation's guinea pig, but somewhat encouraged that TW seems to be trying to fix things more quickly than usual.

I got "gatored" again last night on my SA8300HDC DVR. After a couple weeks of being able to record on my eSATA drive with no problems, another update was pushed down at 4:20AM this morning.

Anyway, I am screwed again, even worse. This version change is 3.1.0_11 dated 11/26/2008, Everything I recorded in the last 2 weeks is gone.

Got this same update last night in Desert Cities TW. Only issue I had was it resorted my series recording priorities and I had to manually move them back where they were.

TWC just switched us from passport to navigator. With passport I could move programs to be the least important so when space ran out, the least important programs would be deleted first. I don't see that ability in navigator. Is there a way to manually reorder the programs?

Also, I read on the twc website that if there is no space, navigator will not record any new programs until I delete programs to make space. Under passport, programs were deleted automatically. Is this true?

. Also, I have an SXRD with somewhat oversaturated primaries which probably doesn't help my situation!

.

i have an SXRD also. the UI looks good to me. lots better than the blue on blue on blue that i still have on my 3250hd boxes. i would rate it slightly more pleasing to look at than passport or sara and a heck of a lot better than previous versions of navigator. but thats just my opinion and my TV has been professionally calibrated. but hopefully we'll get an update to allow various color options so everyone can be happy. the way things have been going i can sure see this being added long before things that are actually needed.

Seems far more likely to me it's more about the software supporting (or not) a 16:9 guide than the hardware. When the cableco sends a real 16:9, it shows as real 16:9 on my HDTV.

My guess is there may be one chance in 700 billion that TWC will distribute the 3090 w/320G drives! If they DO, I'd be be the first singing their praise...

Like I said the SA 8300/8240 can only render graphics up to 640x480 which is not a widescreen resolution. The software can support it. That Samsung DLP in a presentation by Samsung did have ODN in full 16:9. Samsung is a TWC development partner. I think the box upscales the program guide so maybe thats why.

Like I said the SA 8300/8240 can only render graphics up to 640x480 which is not a widescreen resolution. The software can support it. That Samsung DLP in a presentation by Samsung did have ODN in full 16:9. Samsung is a TWC development partner. I think the box upscales the program guide so maybe thats why.

I could be wrong but the guide is generated locally within the cable box from raw guide data downloaded from the head-end. therefore the 4x3 limit based on the hardware chip in the box that displayed local images.

There is no RF modulator in the SMT-H3090 AFAIK.

What idiot would connect a box capable of HD output to a TV's antenna input to watch cable in SD and let his TV stretch it until all the beutiful babes look fat :-)

TWC just switched us from passport to navigator. With passport I could move programs to be the least important so when space ran out, the least important programs would be deleted first. I don't see that ability in navigator. Is there a way to manually reorder the programs?

Also, I read on the twc website that if there is no space, navigator will not record any new programs until I delete programs to make space. Under passport, programs were deleted automatically. Is this true?

1. nope.
2. havent run into this yet. i have wd expander attached so may not for a while.

i have an SXRD also. the UI looks good to me. lots better than the blue on blue on blue that i still have on my 3250hd boxes. i would rate it slightly more pleasing to look at than passport or sara and a heck of a lot better than previous versions of navigator. but thats just my opinion and my TV has been professionally calibrated. but hopefully we'll get an update to allow various color options so everyone can be happy. the way things have been going i can sure see this being added long before things that are actually needed.

I didn't mean to open up such a can of worms about the new color scheme; If y'all like it, great! I agree it's much nicer looking than before, but I still prefer the old Passport color schemes. If they gave a color scheme option that didn't have the yellow highlight row, I'd be totally happy. I still think it's overdone, but at least now it's one of my least critical complaints about Navigator. Making it reliable and fixing the jump-back rewind are the biggies.

P.S. I've personally calibrated my set better than most professionals would be able to (I'm in the display industry and was in LCoS R&D for a couple years).

I could be wrong but the guide is generated locally within the cable box from raw guide data downloaded from the head-end. therefore the 4x3 limit based on the hardware chip in the box that displayed local images.

The ODN guide on that Samsung DLP still doesn't show any more guide data. It was just a widescreen version of the current guide. It was much wider.

What idiot would connect a box capable of HD output to a TV's antenna input to watch cable in SD and let his TV stretch it until all the beutiful babes look fat :-)

I too agree. Using an RF modulator is terrible. Even I did that once. For an SDTV it's fine. Mainly those with old SDTV's that have no composite inputs. I too use component on 2 of our HDTV's and it's great. I think it's a great idea to get rid of the RF modulator.

I too agree. Using an RF modulator is terrible. Even I did that once. For an SDTV it's fine. Mainly those with old SDTV's that have no composite inputs. I too use component on 2 of our HDTV's and it's great. I think it's a great idea to get rid of the RF modulator.

I think that a lot of old-school tech people have RF distribution so they can have the main TV in HD, but use the RF to send to the kitchen/garage. That's what my father-in-law does anyway...

xnappo

Deleted (posted to a wrong thread)

Unfortunately for those who want RF output to be removed, OpenCable standard requires these outputs on set-top boxes:

RF Output
Composite video
S-Video
RCA Audio Out
S/PDIF Audio Out
HDMI or DVI
IEEE 1394 (a.k.a. FireWire or i.Link)

Analog component video is an optional output.

I support keeping the legacy outputs for these reasons:

Removing the RF output will make the box unusable for those who have really old television sets which can only take an RF input. My family had an old Zenith CRT television that never broke down (Zenith at one time built great TVs but started building low-cost trash that trashed its reputation and lead to its eventual bankruptcy) and needed some sort of cable box like a VCR in order to use cable TV before we became an early adopter of an HD monitor, which only came as projection CRTs or direct view CRTs back when we bought it.
Legacy outputs are good for diagnostic purposes, like when one day we got a previously used 3250HD which was set to output only 720p. Our TV only displays 480p and 1080i natively, must upconvert 480i to 480p, and blue screens when it receives 720p. I had to use the composite video out in order to change the resolution settings to 480i, 480p, and 1080i. (The 3250HD's upconversion of SD into HD was so bad that we let our TV do the job. When we upgraded to an 8300HD, we chose 1080i because its upconverter was so good it beat the TV's upconverter by a wide margin.)

See http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/ps8613/products_data_sheets_list.html for the new 86xx series DVRs, which add more memory vs. the 85xx series, a higher clock speed vs. the 85xx series, and 1080p24 and 1080p30 frame rates. Will Navigator support those frame rates, and why do they not include 720p24 output?

TWC just switched us from passport to navigator. With passport I could move programs to be the least important so when space ran out, the least important programs would be deleted first. I don't see that ability in navigator. Is there a way to manually reorder the programs?

Also, I read on the twc website that if there is no space, navigator will not record any new programs until I delete programs to make space. Under passport, programs were deleted automatically. Is this true?


I think it only has the "save it until manually deleted" option.

See http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/ps8613/products_data_sheets_list.html for the new 86xx series DVRs, which add more memory vs. the 85xx series, a higher clock speed vs. the 85xx series, and 1080p24 and 1080p30 frame rates. Will Navigator support those frame rates, and why do they not include 720p24 output?

They look nice. The Samsung boxes also good as well. The SMT-H3090 will likely replace the SA HD-DVRs.

Unfortunately for those who want RF output to be removed, OpenCable standard requires these outputs on set-top boxes:

RF Output
Composite video
S-Video
RCA Audio Out
S/PDIF Audio Out
HDMI or DVI
IEEE 1394 (a.k.a. FireWire or i.Link)

Analog component video is an optional output.

I support keeping the legacy outputs for these reasons:

Removing the RF output will make the box unusable for those who have really old television sets which can only take an RF input. My family had an old Zenith CRT television that never broke down (Zenith at one time built great TVs but started building low-cost trash that trashed its reputation and lead to its eventual bankruptcy) and needed some sort of cable box like a VCR in order to use cable TV before we became an early adopter of an HD monitor, which only came as projection CRTs or direct view CRTs back when we bought it.
Legacy outputs are good for diagnostic purposes, like when one day we got a previously used 3250HD which was set to output only 720p. Our TV only displays 480p and 1080i natively, must upconvert 480i to 480p, and blue screens when it receives 720p. I had to use the composite video out in order to change the resolution settings to 480i, 480p, and 1080i. (The 3250HD's upconversion of SD into HD was so bad that we let our TV do the job. When we upgraded to an 8300HD, we chose 1080i because its upconverter was so good it beat the TV's upconverter by a wide margin.)


Then why did Samsung take it out. It too supports OCAP and has no RF modulator. The SMT-H3050 has the RF output with BTSC stereo.

This was a pleasant surprise tonight! It is switched digital and the first time I tried it, it was not available. Subsequent tries were all successful.

Now you can watch BSG in HD and all the other critically acclaimed sci-fi shows.

Then why did Samsung take it out. It too supports OCAP and has no RF modulator. The SMT-H3050 has the RF output with BTSC stereo.

I just found out that the OpenCable Host Device 2.1 Core Functional Requirements specification (http://www.cablelabs.com/specifications/OC-SP-HOST2.1-CFR-I06-081114.pdf) contradicts itself on pages 12, 13-14, and 37, where the definitive requirements are on pages 37-39. It avoids making the specificaiton useless by marking the diagram on page 12 and section 3.1.2 on pages 13-14 as "Informative", while section 7.1 is not marked as "Informative". Therefore 7.1 is the definitive section. Section 7.1 requires all of the outputs I marked as required except for the RF output.

CableLabs needs to hire a good technical proofreader to go through its standards to eliminate these self-contradictions. I am pretty sure with all of the layoffs in this recession that it should not be hard to find one.

NAVIGATOR UPDATE:

Someone in Wisconsin, (where I am) just got that update to Navigator on their SA 3250 HD box. I have also asked users if their closed captioning never worked with the Mystro boxes, if it works after the update. My CC never worked on my SA 8300 DVR, not even with Passport.

Just to inform that the rollout of the new Navigator for MDN has begun in Wisconsin. My guess is that the DVR's will be last to update.

Jack

See http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/ps8613/products_data_sheets_list.html for the new 86xx series DVRs, which add more memory vs. the 85xx series, a higher clock speed vs. the 85xx series, and 1080p24 and 1080p30 frame rates. Will Navigator support those frame rates, and why do they not include 720p24 output?

While these look nice, WHY are they still using such small hard drives????? I mean, at least there is the optional 320, but these should have a minimum 500GB in them! I guess it's not a big deal so long as eSATA support remain in play where both drives are utilized. DirecTV disables the internal drive when an external is hooked up.

The next question is when are these going to start deploying? We still don't have anything beyond the 8300HDC here. TWC better do something because I just upgraded to a 1080p projector and now see all the garbage in the picture that my 480p model hid. (Especially SD analog content!) MPEG4 and better software would help enormously. Unfortunately, I feel if nothing is done by springtime, a call to DirecTV is in my future.

While these look nice, WHY are they still using such small hard drives????? I mean, at least there is the optional 320, but these should have a minimum 500GB in them! I guess it's not a big deal so long as eSATA support remain in play where both drives are utilized. DirecTV disables the internal drive when an external is hooked up.

The next question is when are these going to start deploying? We still don't have anything beyond the 8300HDC here. TWC better do something because I just upgraded to a 1080p projector and now see all the garbage in the picture that my 480p model hid. (Especially SD analog content!) MPEG4 and better software would help enormously. Unfortunately, I feel if nothing is done by springtime, a call to DirecTV is in my future.

Sounds like a good plan, Ben. Now you still have digital phone and Road Runner from TWC, right? Maybe you could keep those parts of your TWC, and go with Direct TV. Personally, while Navigator has certainly gotten better, I would not "wait" for Navigator's deployment, because everyone that I have talked to has said DTV and Tivo (especially integrated Tivo) is better than Navigator. And Dish has way more HD content than cable. What you need is a clear view of the Southeast for the dish. Keep us posted!

Your 480i content, must look like $hit on that projector!!!

While these look nice, WHY are they still using such small hard drives????? I mean, at least there is the optional 320, but these should have a minimum 500GB in them!

One of the benefits over the years of being on TWC and most of us having to deal with their pitiful HD lineup is that the current drives could still handle the content.

Now with the HD channels beginning to accelerate we now have hardware that's woefully incapable.

So now we are finally catching up in one aspect, we are punished for it in another.

ADB has a box that can go up to 500 GB.

ADB has a box that can go up to 500 GB.

Unfortunately, that box lacks an eSATA port.

What we really want would be a set-top box with a terabyte hard drive with eSATA support for the distant future of HD-only networks with the only SD channels being retro channels like TV Land and RTN and some subchannels off of broadcast TV.

Seagate, Hitachi Global Storage Technologies, and Samsung have 1TB hard drives optimized for DVR applications. Western Digital is behind the times because its maximum DVR drive size is 500GB.

Why doesn't Samsung offer its own HA101UJ (http://www.samsung.com/global/business/hdd/productmodel.do?group=72&type=59&subtype=69&model_cd=247&ppmi=1161) 1TB drives in its own OCAP DVRs?

One thing I will concede is that not all hard drives can work in DVRs. Some hard drives targeted to enthusiast-class PCs would eat too much power to be feasible with the cost-cutting that must go on in the power supply unit to make the box attractive to the cable companies. Others are too slow or noisy. Standard hard drives also could make it easy to pirate shows by removing the hard drive. DVR-targeted drives with hardware encryption and/or authentication helps defeat this "threat" to cable companies' bottom lines. Therefore, DVRs need special drives for this task, and I do not expect DVR manufacturers to make it easy to replace the hard drive with a larger one.

Obviously not a solution for cable providers, TiVo has a unit on the market with a 1TB internal drive. the TiVo HD XL. If they can do it, other DVR manufacturers can.

Navigator Closed-Captioning Questions: (For those of you who get/got it to work on your box)

For Navigator CC options, you have "On," "Off," and "On With Mute" Must your TV volume be controlled by the cable box in order for those functions to work? Especially the "On With Mute" option?

Also, has it ever been noted why CC is so unpredictable on many of the boxes? Especially the MDN's? If all wiring and signal configs are good, what is the hardware or software in the box that prevents CC from working on them?

Jack

I have 2 HD tv's and 2 TW boxes, both with component hookups and using Navigator. On my 32" Sony I have an 8300HDC box and on my 40" Samsung I have an 8300HD box. My settings on both DVR's are:
Picture Size - Stretch
Aspect - 16 x 9
Resolution - 1080i

I get different results on each TV. On the Sony, the picture on SD broadcasts is stretched to the full screen (like I want). On the Samsung, the SD pictures have the black bars on the sides. No idea why the TV's are not the same in SD. Any ideas?

I have 2 HD tv's and 2 TW boxes, both with component hookups and using Navigator. On my 32" Sony I have an 8300HDC box and on my 40" Samsung I have an 8300HD box. My settings on both DVR's are:
Picture Size - Stretch
Aspect - 16 x 9
Resolution - 1080i

I get different results on each TV. On the Sony, the picture on SD broadcasts is stretched to the full screen (like I want). On the Samsung, the SD pictures have the black bars on the sides. No idea why the TV's are not the same in SD. Any ideas?It's possible that the Samsung has a "squish" setting--such a mode is designed to process channels where 4:3 programs have been stretched for you and return them to their original AR. Another possibility is that you're viewing a 4:3 image on an HD channel--some televisions will not stretch HD images.

I'd advise setting both DVRs "Picture Size" to whatever setting lets the picture come through untouched and adjusting the AR controls on your televisions to create the stretch.

Navigator Closed-Captioning Questions: (For those of you who get/got it to work on your box)

For Navigator CC options, you have "On," "Off," and "On With Mute" Must your TV volume be controlled by the cable box in order for those functions to work? Especially the "On With Mute" option?

Also, has it ever been noted why CC is so unpredictable on many of the boxes? Especially the MDN's? If all wiring and signal configs are good, what is the hardware or software in the box that prevents CC from working on them?

Jack

i have the volume controlled by the TV. i get the on, off and on with mute options. however the on with mute doesnt work. because when i mute the TV the box doesnt know it is muted. sound is still being sent to the TV from the box but the TV is performing the mute function. same as when i am using my AVR for 5.1. i can mute the AVR but the cable box doesnt know this so the on with mute doesnt work. i havent tried it but i suppose i could program my harmony to send the mute command to the cable box and not the TV then on with mute would work. but i'd just be happy if CC would work for more than a few days for me.

CC is still very sporatic for me. i have found that i can reboot the box and CC will come back but for no more than a day or so then it wont work any more and i have to reboot the box again. this problem only apeared with the latest version. the previous version CC was reliable however it made the box reboot itself quite often.

the 3250 HD non DVR boxes that are in other rooms have an older version of navigator. they dont reboot with CC and CC always works.

How do I check to see what version of Navigator my box is running? Also, is tehre a way to force an upgrade to a more recent version, if available? Thanks!

i have the volume controlled by the TV. i get the on, off and on with mute options. however the on with mute doesnt work. because when i mute the TV the box doesnt know it is muted.

Same here. "Caption On" works fine and always has.

Can people start posting what their 8300 box revision is when MDN problems occur? The more I see this caption question the more I'm thinking there's a correlation.

How do I check to see what version of Navigator my box is running? Also, is tehre a way to force an upgrade to a more recent version, if available? Thanks!
On front of box or R/C, hold SELECT key down for about 10 seconds until "MAIL"
idiot light in front panel display comes on. Then hit "CH-DN" key for Diagnostic menus.

ODN used to have additional menus via "CH-UP" key...but doesn't work anymore on mine.

We also have additional info displayed by tuning to a Diagnostic channel,
which varies from system to system (ours is Ch998)...search "unassigned" numbers.

I have 2 HD tv's and 2 TW boxes, both with component hookups and using Navigator. On my 32" Sony I have an 8300HDC box and on my 40" Samsung I have an 8300HD box. My settings on both DVR's are:
Picture Size - Stretch
Aspect - 16 x 9
Resolution - 1080i

I get different results on each TV. On the Sony, the picture on SD broadcasts is stretched to the full screen (like I want). On the Samsung, the SD pictures have the black bars on the sides. No idea why the TV's are not the same in SD. Any ideas?


I'm not sure. But if you change the aspect ration to 4:3, then the SD programming will be stretched (doesn't look too bad on my 67", actually) and the HD programming will be normal. It's counter intuitive, but it works.

I also got the latest update for Navigator MDN on my SA 8300 DVR. Colors are different. Have not seen major new features yet. CC still a no go, so obviously this is a hardware issue with this box. The guide looks much more polished and professional. Minor adds are:

1.) The enhanced colors as mentioned above.

2.) Keyboard Search Wrapping

3. Find Shows brings up the keyboard immediately. To do a Category Search, you press B again.

Navigator now LOOKS good and not like something out of a high school Computer Ed. Final Exam Project.

Jack

They look nice. The Samsung boxes also good as well. The SMT-H3090 will likely replace the SA HD-DVRs.

FWIW, someone posted in the NYC thread that they tried to get a 3090 Samsung, but were told it wasn't available (at a TWC pick-up store on 23rd street). Given you said this looks like the first market for deployment, we ARE watching closely... and are crossing our fingers a regular (avser) gets it!

I'm not sure. But if you change the aspect ration to 4:3, then the SD programming will be stretched (doesn't look too bad on my 67", actually) and the HD programming will be normal. It's counter intuitive, but it works.

Actually, there is an old passport "trick" that involves setting the cable box to 4:3. In my market, many channels had very light gray to almost white sidebars... something many of us found to be hugely distracting. For some really obscure reason, setting the 8300HD to 4:3 AND connecting to a Samsung LCD made those sidebars black! AND after using to for well over a year I can say that nothing is "wrong." By that I mean everything displays in a "correct" AR EXCEPT those "stretch-o-vision" channels that stretch 4:3 content from their head ends to the cable company.

How do I check to see what version of Navigator my box is running? Also, is tehre a way to force an upgrade to a more recent version, if available? Thanks!On front of box or R/C, hold SELECT key down for about 10 seconds until "MAIL"
idiot light in front panel display comes on. Then hit "CH-DN" key for Diagnostic menus.

ODN used to have additional menus via "CH-UP" key...but doesn't work anymore on mine.

We also have additional info displayed by tuning to a Diagnostic channel,
which varies from system to system (ours is Ch998)...search "unassigned" numbers.I think that there's an alternative, if all you want is the version number. Press and hold the LAST button on the remote and the version number will show up on your screen as a persistent overlay. (That was on MDN; I'm not sure that it was ever confirmed for ODN. See this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14460288#post14460288) post for details. EDIT--I tried this on ODN 3.1.0_11 and it doesn't work).

And no, gurtyb, there is no way to force an update that I'm aware of.

Same here. "Caption On" works fine and always has..

i was just trying to explain to sach man why "on with mute" doesnt work if the volume is controlled by the Tv and he mutes the TV. the box doesnt know he muted the TV so having "On with mute" selected on the box does nothing.

Can people start posting what their 8300 box revision is when MDN problems occur? The more I see this caption question the more I'm thinking there's a correlation.

mines in my signature.

I have my box hooked to the TV with a HDMI cable and when I mute the box (not the TV) there is no change in the volume even though the mute symbol is displayed. I find this odd but no biggie for me since except for testing I never use the DVR volume control and there are so many other great things to complain about with Navigator.

mines in my signature.

That's your software version. The box hardware version is underneath the unit. I'm on a 2.2 revision.

I spoke to our local TWC office here in Greensboro today.While in conversation I asked about Navigator.The CSR told me it would launchin Greensboro on Jan. 13 along with Scifi hd USA hd Fox nws hd and FX hd.Sounds good to me.

... mines in my signature.If you change your signature, do new readers of old posts see the version you had then, or the version you have now?

<- I caved and put mine in the location space, but I try to remember to put the version and location in the actual post when required. (spent some time bouncing all over...)

v/r,
C-F

I also got the latest update for Navigator MDN on my SA 8300 DVR. Colors are different. Have not seen major new features yet. CC still a no go, so obviously this is a hardware issue with this box. The guide looks much more polished and professional. Minor adds are:

1.) The enhanced colors as mentioned above.

2.) Keyboard Search Wrapping

3. Find Shows brings up the keyboard immediately. To do a Category Search, you press B again.

Navigator now LOOKS good and not like something out of a high school Computer Ed. Final Exam Project.

Jack

Got an email today stating they are going to start rolling it out here within the next week.

Got an email today stating they are going to start rolling it out here within the next week.

Are you on SARA or PASSPORT?

Are you on SARA or PASSPORT?

Navigator... they are rolling out the newest version that Satch Man was referring to in his post in the Triangle area next week. Sorry for the confusion.

Got an email today stating they are going to start rolling it out here within the next week.

My MDN box was updated to 2.4.4-15 last night here in Cary, NC.

Updated here too. Nothing of interest has been fixed.

I thought the colors would be a big improvement but the quality of the graphics is so poor that all the gradients they insist on using are just badly dithered and full of banding.

I noticed the VOD channels have been changed as well. A lot darker.

And then it crashed going to the settings menu. :rolleyes:

That's your software version. The box hardware version is underneath the unit. I'm on a 2.2 revision.

Oh, i see. i misunderstood.
unfortunately, in order for me to see the bottom of the box I'll have to disconnect the cables (too tight to just pull out and look) and remove a couple other components first. i wont be doing that anytime soon.

If you change your signature, do new readers of old posts see the version you had then, or the version you have now?

v/r,
C-F

if i go back and look at old posts i made i see that it does change. so readers of old posts will see the updated info. could be a little confusing to them i suppose. i believe it will show the updated info on all old posts if its in the location space also.

Updated here too. Nothing of interest has been fixed.

I thought the colors would be a big improvement but the quality of the graphics is so poor that all the gradients they insist on using are just badly dithered and full of banding.

I noticed the VOD channels have been changed as well. A lot darker.

And then it crashed going to the settings menu. :rolleyes:

Vision,

Sorry to hear that you don't like the new graphics. I have my updated Navigator on an SD set, and I think the graphics look great! Somewhere in this thread, there are side by side comparisons of Navigator, Passport, and SARA screens. Actually, they may not be side by side but at least close together in posts.

So what I am wondering is what is still bad about the graphics with this new update? I think that the graphics now look just as good (maybe even a little better than Passport!)

My disappointment, the biggest that I have, is that Keyword Search was not included with this last release. We REALLY need to petition TWC to include this in the next Navigator update, which they will probably push before the end of 1st Quarter 2009. Those with external hard drives, are they working after this update, if not, this should also be addressed.

It should be noted that although I do not personally use Series Recording, I have heard that this update has the ability to prioritize series recording. Some model boxes have a Nearest Tune feature, which when activated tunes to the nearest channel on the box instead of the ??? when an unknown channel number is entered. I don't have that on my box.

If we had the following additions or get them in the next update, I will say that Navigator will be very close to Passport's standards, they include:

1.) Keyword Search

2.) Manual Recording Time Slots. (Where you could program the box to Start and End at program times that were not related to the IPG's schedule.) In theory, you can sort of create a Manual recording, by pressing the REC button on Navigator now, and the show will record from the point of Start Time to the end time in the IPG. But the thing is, you have to be there to create a manual start time. I want the ability to be able to program the EXACT start and end times for those programs:

1.) Where I only need to see part of a show.

2.) Coinciding with that is having the ability through Manual Recording to selectively record what I want to see, and not record what I don't want to see.

If we get Keyword Search and true Manual Recording, I think we will very close to Passport standards.

Oh, BTW, I will copy and paste part of this list to the Navigator Wish List Thread that I created last year. I think it would be good to get that going again.

Jack

Oh, BTW, I will copy and paste part of this list to the Navigator Wish List Thread that I created last year. I think it would be good to get that going again.

Jack

Does Navigator have power-on-any-keypress? I use that feature with SARA to get around not having real discrete-on/off with my remote...
xnappo

Vision,

Sorry to hear that you don't like the new graphics. I have my updated Navigator on an SD set, and I think the graphics look great! Somewhere in this thread, there are side by side comparisons of Navigator, Passport, and SARA screens. Actually, they may not be side by side but at least close together in posts.

So what I am wondering is what is still bad about the graphics with this new update? I think that the graphics now look just as good (maybe even a little better than Passport!)

My disappointment, the biggest that I have, is that Keyword Search was not included with this last release. We REALLY need to petition TWC to include this in the next Navigator update, which they will probably push before the end of 1st Quarter 2009. Those with external hard drives, are they working after this update, if not, this should also be addressed.

It should be noted that although I do not personally use Series Recording, I have heard that this update has the ability to prioritize series recording. Some model boxes have a Nearest Tune feature, which when activated tunes to the nearest channel on the box instead of the ??? when an unknown channel number is entered. I don't have that on my box.

If we had the following additions or get them in the next update, I will say that Navigator will be very close to Passport's standards, they include:

1.) Keyword Search

2.) Manual Recording Time Slots. (Where you could program the box to Start and End at program times that were not related to the IPG's schedule.) In theory, you can sort of create a Manual recording, by pressing the REC button on Navigator now, and the show will record from the point of Start Time to the end time in the IPG. But the thing is, you have to be there to create a manual start time. I want the ability to be able to program the EXACT start and end times for those programs:

1.) Where I only need to see part of a show.

2.) Coinciding with that is having the ability through Manual Recording to selectively record what I want to see, and not record what I don't want to see.

If we get Keyword Search and true Manual Recording, I think we will very close to Passport standards.

Oh, BTW, I will copy and paste part of this list to the Navigator Wish List Thread that I created last year. I think it would be good to get that going again.

Jack

In theory if they just added more features to the airtime recording such as certain days or all days or just one day every week we could work that as manual recording.

Does Navigator have power-on-any-keypress? I use that feature with SARA to get around not having real discrete-on/off with my remote...
xnappo

ODN has the ability to turn on when any number key is pressed if that option is set in the Devices submenu of the Quick Settings menu that appears when the settings button is pressed. I think that option is called "Power on keys" or something like that. It is disabled by default.

ODN has the ability to turn on when any number key is pressed if that option is set in the Devices submenu of the Quick Settings menu that appears when the settings button is pressed. I think that option is called "Power on keys" or something like that. It is disabled by default.

Thanks much. That is identical to SARA.

xnappo

My MDN box was updated to 2.4.4-15 last night here in Cary, NC.

You sure about that last revision (i.e., -15)? What do the diagnostics say?

In San Diego, I have 2.4.4-14 (Pyramid Peak), September 29, 2008.

(note that the last few characters are -14, not -15)

In theory if they just added more features to the airtime recording such as certain days or all days or just one day every week we could work that as manual recording.

Sometimes, yes, but they would need more than just restriction on which days to record to make up for not having manual recording. If it existed, I would use maual recording to record shows partially (when I have a conflict), and the number of minutes to skip is not covered by the short list that negative padding allows. If negative padding can be any number of minutes, (or if the conflict resolution would allow partial recordings) then I would not need manual recording.

Vision,

Sorry to hear that you don't like the new graphics. I have my updated Navigator on an SD set, and I think the graphics look great! Somewhere in this thread, there are side by side comparisons of Navigator, Passport, and SARA screens. Actually, they may not be side by side but at least close together in posts.

It's probably a screen size issue. I'm watching on a 52 inch screen. I imagine it's not as noticeable on smaller screens.

Sometimes, yes, but they would need more than just restriction on which days to record to make up for not having manual recording. If it existed, I would use maual recording to record shows partially (when I have a conflict), and the number of minutes to skip is not covered by the short list that negative padding allows. If negative padding can be any number of minutes, (or if the conflict resolution would allow partial recordings) then I would not need manual recording.

I agree manual recording would be better was just suggesting a workaround.Keyword search is a feature we must have.

It's probably a screen size issue. I'm watching on a 52 inch screen. I imagine it's not as noticeable on smaller screens.

Oh yea Vision,

That would definitely explain it. On an HD set like that with a big screen, say 40" or more, you'll have to get one of the new HD boxes from Samsung or Cisco, which will display Navigator's IPG in HD. The conventional HD boxes from SA, only display the corresponding stations in HD, not the guide itself. The newest boxes that are HD from Cisco or Samsung will show the corresponding IPG in HD.

Jack