I agree manual recording would be better was just suggesting a workaround.Keyword search is a feature we must have.

Keyword search would be real nice. It is #4 on my Navigator wish list, behind:
1. do not break eSATA support
2. add 30 second skip
3. add the ability to remove channels from guide as well as from the searches; allow exclusion of the On Demand stuff from searches as well

1. seems to be on a break it, fix it, break it, cycle. They apparently can't even change colors without breaking it. We'll probably not see 2 and 3 due to political reasons. Waiting for true2way Tivo.

Oh yea Vision,

That would definitely explain it. On an HD set like that with a big screen, say 40" or more, you'll have to get one of the new HD boxes from Samsung or Cisco, which will display Navigator's IPG in HD. The conventional HD boxes from SA, only display the corresponding stations in HD, not the guide itself. The newest boxes that are HD from Cisco or Samsung will show the corresponding IPG in HD.

Jack

The newest box TWC has in their inventory is the Samsung SMT-H3090. Apparently it has yet to be deployed. NYC might deploy them soon. I have seen a Samsung OCAP DLP with ODN displayed in Widescreen. It looked much wider and it did fill the screen. It didn't offer any more information though. Like I said Samsung is a TWC development partner so they will be deploying Samsung OCAP/tru2way boxes. Some areas already have the SMT-H3050. Those that don't have it will probably be doing so after it's finished testing. The SMT-H3090 is still in testing with most divisions so it's too early to tell. Thats according to Bob Barlow. NYC may have been wrapping up testing with the SMT-H3090. It shouldn't be long before new boxes come out that are handle Navigator much better. Samsung also has the SMT-H3020 which is an HD non DVR that has yet to be deployed. It has better specs than the SMT-H3050 and it has features that resemble the SMT-H3090 like MPEG-4 support.

You sure about that last revision (i.e., -15)? What do the diagnostics say?

In San Diego, I have 2.4.4-14 (Pyramid Peak), September 29, 2008.

(note that the last few characters are -14, not -15)

-15 does exist. Here in Milwaukee, I have 2.4.4-15 dated Nov 11. just got it like 2 days ago.

You sure about that last revision (i.e., -15)? What do the diagnostics say?

In San Diego, I have 2.4.4-14 (Pyramid Peak), September 29, 2008.

(note that the last few characters are -14, not -15)

Yep, just verified it - dated 11/11/2008.

Jim

Updated here too. Nothing of interest has been fixed.

I thought the colors would be a big improvement but the quality of the graphics is so poor that all the gradients they insist on using are just badly dithered and full of banding.

I noticed the VOD channels have been changed as well. A lot darker.

And then it crashed going to the settings menu. :rolleyes:

Is the banding and dithering because all Scientific-Atlanta boxes before the launch of the 85xxHD(C) and 86xxHD(C) series have a maximum color depth of 16 bits per pixel on internally-generated graphics? The 85xx and 86xx series are able to support either 24-bit or 32-bit color on internally-generated graphics and might not have this problem.

Is the banding and dithering because all Scientific-Atlanta boxes before the launch of the 85xxHD(C) and 86xxHD(C) series have a maximum color depth of 16 bits per pixel on internally-generated graphics?

Could be, but I think they are just using low quality graphic elements. I don't remember Passport looking as bad and they used more effects. But it's been a long time since I saw that now so maybe I'm just remembering it too fondly.

Is the banding and dithering because all Scientific-Atlanta boxes before the launch of the 85xxHD(C) and 86xxHD(C) series have a maximum color depth of 16 bits per pixel on internally-generated graphics? The 85xx and 86xx series are able to support either 24-bit or 32-bit color on internally-generated graphics and might not have this problem.

Don't forget the Samsung SMT boxes as well.

Samsung also has the SMT-H3020 which is an HD non DVR that has yet to be deployed. It has better specs than the SMT-H3050 and it has features that resemble the SMT-H3090 like MPEG-4 support.

Ah, so there are two non DVR Samsung boxes... so I better make sure exactly which one my aunt has... it's the one with the "won't go away until more clicks are made" channel change banner!

so if better boxes are on the market but not available through TWC can I purchase one and then inform the cable company or something and then use the box (and not rent one from them)? Isn't that one of the purposes of OCAP?

so if better boxes are on the market but not available through TWC can I purchase one and then inform the cable company or something and then use the box (and not rent one from them)? Isn't that one of the purposes of OCAP?Yes. If you can find a tru2way device at retail, you should be able to get your cable provider to install an M-Card in it and it should work fine on their system, downloading the latest version of Navigator from them just like one of their leased boxes.

TWC has been a big booster of OCAP--see their corporate CableCARD FAQ (http://www.timewarnercable.com/Corporate/Products/CableCard/CableCard.html?menu=29167) (where they refer to tru2way products as "Open Cable Products"--the FAQ expected them to be available in 4Q07 or 1Q08, so it must have been published prior to 4Q07, before the tru2way branding was developed).

Yes. If you can find a tru2way device at retail, you should be able to get your cable provider to install an M-Card in it and it should work fine on their system, downloading the latest version of Navigator from them just like one of their leased boxes.

TWC has been a big booster of OCAP--see their corporate CableCARD FAQ (http://www.timewarnercable.com/Corporate/Products/CableCard/CableCard.html?menu=29167) (where they refer to tru2way products and "Open Cable Products"--the FAQ expected them to be available in 4Q07 or 1Q08, so it must have been published prior to 4Q07, before the tru2way branding was developed).

So I wouldn't have to lease the box but they can charge me for leasing the M-Card? I'll have to call and ask how much that would cost.

Is the banding and dithering because all Scientific-Atlanta boxes before the launch of the 85xxHD(C) and 86xxHD(C) series have a maximum color depth of 16 bits per pixel on internally-generated graphics? The 85xx and 86xx series are able to support either 24-bit or 32-bit color on internally-generated graphics and might not have this problem.

What's the difference (tech wise) between the 85xxHD(C) and 86xxHD(C) series? I did look at the PDFs but I probably missed something.

EDIT: May be a moot point. I'm in the San Diego area (regular, not formerly Adelphia) so I'll probably be getting the Samsung unit, if and when they're deployed.

I thought the colors would be a big improvement but the quality of the graphics is so poor that all the gradients they insist on using are just badly dithered and full of banding.



It's probably a screen size issue. I'm watching on a 52 inch screen. I imagine it's not as noticeable on smaller screens.

can you capture a pic. of the dithering and banding. ( i know its probably difficult to capture) i dont see any on my 60". the transitions between light and dark shades of a given color look smooth to me. unless i get like 2 feet from the set.

So I wouldn't have to lease the box but they can charge me for leasing the M-Card? I'll have to call and ask how much that would cost.Locally, it's $1.75/month.

can you capture a pic. of the dithering and banding. ( i know its probably difficult to capture) i dont see any on my 60". the transitions between light and dark shades of a given color look smooth to me. unless i get like 2 feet from the set.

I'll see if I can get a snap this weekend. You can see it most of all on the black background in the DVR list. I also noticed that watching in my calibrated cinema mode makes it less noticeable. During the day I use brighter setting for ordinary use and it shows up easily on that.

Ah, so there are two non DVR Samsung boxes... so I better make sure exactly which one my aunt has... it's the one with the "won't go away until more clicks are made" channel change banner!

Riverside,

Your Aunt should consider swapping out her box. I really think this is an isolated case, because I have asked around this and other forums and the "permanent banner" issue does not seem to be widespread.

I would demand a new box. Who wants to have to hit a key to make the banner go away every time you change channels?

Jack

What's the difference (tech wise) between the 85xxHD(C) and 86xxHD(C) series? I did look at the PDFs but I probably missed something.

EDIT: May be a moot point. I'm in the San Diego area (regular, not formerly Adelphia) so I'll probably be getting the Samsung unit, if and when they're deployed.

The 86xxHD(C) units have a higher-clocked CPU, more RAM, video decoding moved from a dedicated video RAM to the regular RAM, and the ability to output 1080p30 and 1080p24.

I do not know whether the 86xxHD(C) series will be faster or slower than the 85xxHD(C) because removing the video RAM and moving the video RAM's duties to the main memory might make the CPU throughput starved if it must process huge amounts of data at once because RAM throughput must be shared between the CPU and the video decoder.

Riverside,

Your Aunt should consider swapping out her box. I really think this is an isolated case, because I have asked around this and other forums and the "permanent banner" issue does not seem to be widespread.

I would demand a new box. Who wants to have to hit a key to make the banner go away every time you change channels?

Jack

I hear you, but she's 87 and ANY change is a huge deal to her. I'm working on it.

I'll see if I can get a snap this weekend. You can see it most of all on the black background in the DVR list. I also noticed that watching in my calibrated cinema mode makes it less noticeable. During the day I use brighter setting for ordinary use and it shows up easily on that.

i pulled the guide up for a little closer scrutiny. i noticed in the light blue info box if i highlighted a show with only one line of info i could see vertical lines and surprisingly they aren't shades of blue. there are actually some red, green, and blue lines. these cant be seen when the info box is full.
and yes i did see some banding where you described.
cant believe i never noticed this before. thanks for pointing it out so now i cant stop seeing it.:rolleyes::)

Been lurking for a long time around here, finally had to post.

So I finally broke down and bought the WD My DVR Expander 500gb drive. I am running MDN 2.4.4-15 on a 8300HD. Followed the instructions that were included with the drive and of course can't get it to work. I then moved to trying different sequences of attaching and powering on the components and get this very insightful message...

"External hard drives should be disconnected while the settop is off

To connect the external hard drive, you should wait at least 10 seconds after powering off the settop"

So obviously it notices that there is something present, but isn't happy about it.

Any thoughts on what I am doing wrong??

Thanks in advance

Been lurking for a long time around here, finally had to post.

So I finally broke down and bought the WD My DVR Expander 500gb drive. I am running MDN 2.4.4-15 on a 8300HD. Followed the instructions that were included with the drive and of course can't get it to work. I then moved to trying different sequences of attaching and powering on the components and get this very insightful message...

"External hard drives should be disconnected while the settop is off

To connect the external hard drive, you should wait at least 10 seconds after powering off the settop"

So obviously it notices that there is something present, but isn't happy about it.

Any thoughts on what I am doing wrong??

Thanks in advance

This works with 8300HDC, not completely sure about 8300HD:

Make sure the drive is unplugged.
Unplug DVR. Wait at least 10 seconds.
Connect eSATA cable to both drive and DVR.
Plug in the drive only. Wait at least 30 seconds.
Plug in the DVR. Wait a while. You should eventually see the appropriate prompt.

i pulled the guide up for a little closer scrutiny. i noticed in the light blue info box if i highlighted a show with only one line of info i could see vertical lines and surprisingly they aren't shades of blue. there are actually some red, green, and blue lines. these cant be seen when the info box is full.
and yes i did see some banding where you described.
cant believe i never noticed this before. thanks for pointing it out so now i cant stop seeing it.:rolleyes::)

You don't want to take a look at the part that says "More Information" or holds the date and times in the guide either. if you did you might not stop seeing the horizontal banding either.

So no, don't look at that part.

Seriously. Don't look closely. :D

This works with 8300HDC, not completely sure about 8300HD:

Make sure the drive is unplugged.
Unplug DVR. Wait at least 10 seconds.
Connect eSATA cable to both drive and DVR.
Plug in the drive only. Wait at least 30 seconds.
Plug in the DVR. Wait a while. You should eventually see the appropriate prompt.

the expander worked on my 8300hd (with issues) with passport. i moved up to 8300hdc.

They broke eSATA on the latest ODN release....
Maybe they broke eSATA on the new MDN 2.4.4-15 version???
Anybody else using eSATA with the latest version du jour???
I got a really bad feeling coming on.....

They broke eSATA on the latest ODN release....
Maybe they broke eSATA on the new MDN 2.4.4-15 version???
Anybody else using eSATA with the latest version du jour???
I got a really bad feeling coming on.....

Well this would make sense. After not getting it to work last night using the instructions provided, I got my 8300HDC out of the office and put that in place of the 8300HD. Using the instructions everything worked perfectly, but in our area the 8300HDC has not been updated to the latest version of Navigator. Swapped everything back out, put the 8300HD back in and got the same message I referenced in my earlier post. So I may hook it up to the HDC, but that may only be temporary.

Merry bleepin Christmas to me....

Well this would make sense. After not getting it to work last night using the instructions provided, I got my 8300HDC out of the office and put that in place of the 8300HD. Using the instructions everything worked perfectly, but in our area the 8300HDC has not been updated to the latest version of Navigator. Swapped everything back out, put the 8300HD back in and got the same message I referenced in my earlier post. So I may hook it up to the HDC, but that may only be temporary.

Merry bleepin Christmas to me....

Well I guess I need to call Seagate and cancel my order. It sounds like the new version 2.4.4-15 is a no go for an expander. Shucky darn:mad:

They broke eSATA on the latest ODN release....
Maybe they broke eSATA on the new MDN 2.4.4-15 version???
Anybody else using eSATA with the latest version du jour???
I got a really bad feeling coming on.....

eSATA is working fine for me on my 8300HD with MDN 2.4.4-15. I've had no problems.

eSATA is working fine for me on my 8300HD with MDN 2.4.4-15. I've had no problems.

Can I assume it was working before the update?

When I go through the install, it knows that the EHD is there, but it does not give me the prompt to format like it did when I tried the install again with the HDC.

eSATA is working fine for me on my 8300HD with MDN 2.4.4-15. I've had no problems.

What does the diagnostics page say? Does it have any reference to the SATA? I know that passport used to at least say it was acceptable or something like that. But I suspect that unless you formatted the drive BEFORE the update you are SOL. :rolleyes:

Can I assume it was working before the update?

When I go through the install, it knows that the EHD is there, but it does not give me the prompt to format like it did when I tried the install again with the HDC.

Does the HDC run Navigator or Passport? Did the diagnostic page list the SATA (acceptable or something like that) BEFORE you hooked it up?

For the Navigator Update:

I believe that the SA 8300 HDC's will be updated after the other boxes are done. I think they are going from oldest to newest. (At least in my Milwaukee division.) I would expect the C boxes to be updated some time next month or before.

Jack

Does the HDC run Navigator or Passport? Did the diagnostic page list the SATA (acceptable or something like that) BEFORE you hooked it up?

The version of Passport that Time Warner Cable licensed is incompatiable with the 8300HDC. Therefore, you can only get either SARA or ODN Navigator. ODN is the Java-based version of Navigator, while MDN is the version of Navigator that runs on boxes that do not require the Java-based OCAP environment.

Can I assume it was working before the update?

When I go through the install, it knows that the EHD is there, but it does not give me the prompt to format like it did when I tried the install again with the HDC.


Yes it was working before the update. You might want to check over on the 8300 eSATA forum and see if anybody over there has any suggestions or anybody has been able to get a new drive formated with the new version.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=516559&page=239

New update hit me here in Cary. The new UI certainly looks interesting, except when I'm in 480i, then it flickers like mad compared to the old one...

I know that the answer for this question has probably been posted, but.....I have a SA 8300HDC and I still have the old version of Navigator. Is there any way to find out when I am supposed to be scheduled for the upgrade? Any number at TW I can call to find out?


Thanks!

I know that the answer for this question has probably been posted, but.....I have a SA 8300HDC and I still have the old version of Navigator. Is there any way to find out when I am supposed to be scheduled for the upgrade? Any number at TW I can call to find out?


Thanks!

Some conjecture here on my part, but I believe each division handles upgrades on its own schedule - they usually send out a phone message of the change, right before it happens.

Sometimes, a release in your area could be an earlier version (or a later version) than in other divisions.

Example: San Diego, CA
ODN (for the 8300HDC) we have is 3.1.0_7 - I've seen postings of 3.1.0_11 going out
MDN (for the 8300HD) we have is 2.4.4_14 - I've seen postings of 2.4.4_15 going out

Calling isn't going to help as the CSRs are usually clueless about these things. Even an e-mail to an upper management person may not be responded to because that kind of info may be restricted.

Some conjecture here on my part, but I believe each division handles upgrades on its own schedule - they usually send out a phone message of the change, right before it happens.They've sent warnings to some folks when they plan to implement Navigator, but once you have Navigator, there is no warning when they send new releases out -- at least not in central Ohio.

What's the difference between HD and HDC?

Because I had a tech out here and he swapped out my 8300(?) for an 8240HDC and the software blows. I can't do basic things I was able to on my last box, such as set recording priority in the shows list.

So I went back and swapped for an 8300HDC because I remembered that number, but the crappy software is the same. So now I'm thinking I had an 8300HD.

So what's the difference, besides this one apparently lacking features I relied on. Should I go back and see if they have an 8300HD?

Have spent the requisite hour or so searching for the answer to my question, but to no avail. Does anyone have any idea how to erase the Recordings Log in the Navigator software. Can it even be done? We just got the update a week ago and found out the hard way that the kids can see everything we've recorded during the week;) Any help would be greatly appreciated and would cut down on the awkward questions:D

Have spent the requisite hour or so searching for the answer to my question, but to no avail. Does anyone have any idea how to erase the Recordings Log in the Navigator software. Can it even be done? We just got the update a week ago and found out the hard way that the kids can see everything we've recorded during the week;) Any help would be greatly appreciated and would cut down on the awkward questions:D

Nope... your pRon habit will stay there for all to see. :D

I wish my division would get new equipment already. The 8300 was good for it's time, but it's really outdated now. I'd really like them to just get Navigator deployment over with and add the new HD we were supposed to get last month. The SARA guide looks HORRIBLE on my 85" screen. I guess I'll be riding out TW until spring time, then see if they come through with anything good. Otherwise, it's DirecTV for me. I didn't just invest all this money upgrading my Home Theater to have the same stagnated HD lineup I've had for the last year!

Have spent the requisite hour or so searching for the answer to my question, but to no avail. Does anyone have any idea how to erase the Recordings Log in the Navigator software. Can it even be done? We just got the update a week ago and found out the hard way that the kids can see everything we've recorded during the week;) Any help would be greatly appreciated and would cut down on the awkward questions:D

record, stop and instantly erase a lot of Disney channel or science channel type shows.

And really, don't give more money to TWC, just go on the internet for it like everyone else. :p

Some conjecture here on my part, but I believe each division handles upgrades on its own schedule - they usually send out a phone message of the change, right before it happens.

Sometimes, a release in your area could be an earlier version (or a later version) than in other divisions.

Example: San Diego, CA
ODN (for the 8300HDC) we have is 3.1.0_7 - I've seen postings of 3.1.0_11 going out
MDN (for the 8300HD) we have is 2.4.4_14 - I've seen postings of 2.4.4_15 going out

Calling isn't going to help as the CSRs are usually clueless about these things. Even an e-mail to an upper management person may not be responded to because that kind of info may be restricted.

Humdinger70,

San Diego uses ODN 3.1.0_11 and MDN 2.4.4-14. 2.4.4-15 isn't deployed yet in San Diego. I hope it does get deployed if it doesn't mess up eSATA support.

I'm going to be supremely miffed if TWC-SD doesn't TEST IT with eSATA to make sure
they don't cause any further alienation for their highest paying customers!!!!

I'll be glad if they have it stable when (IF) we get it. That's one thing where DirecTV totally dropped the ball. They have eSATA support, but the external drive kills the internal thereby causing you to lose space you were adding to!!!

Nope... your pRon habit will stay there for all to see. :D

With regards to Navigator's recording log (and blocking out what you may not want others to see.)

If you have set up Parental Controls to block specific programs by rating, content, time, or title, and Parental Control is turned on and one of those features is being used, such as "Block By Title." (Where the pin number must be entered to see the blocked content.) would this content say, "Title Blocked" in the Navigator Guide? I believe it does. But future updates should include the option for when Parental Controls are activated, that the appropriate parameters that are turned on are also blocked from viewing in the Recently Viewed List and the Recording Log.

That's what the user above who had the question on blocking recordings from the Recording Log list may like to see. I understand that the Recording log does not allow the viewing of programs. It is basically there to tell you what programs were recently deleted by a user, or unable to record, or conflict information in recording. Recently Viewed allows for the viewing of any program still on the DVR. I believe when it is erased, that it is gone from the Recently Viewed List.

Any updates on how these features work?

Jack

record, stop and instantly erase a lot of Disney channel or science channel type shows.

And really, don't give more money to TWC, just go on the internet for it like everyone else. :p
Does it push the old titles out or are we stuck for 14 days until it deletes itself?

Does it push the old titles out or are we stuck for 14 days until it deletes itself?

No idea. I rarely use the recording log since it's ultimately pointless. Give it a try and see if you can max out the list. All you need to do is hit record and then stop/delete and it will drop into the log.

What's the difference between HD and HDC?

Because I had a tech out here and he swapped out my 8300(?) for an 8240HDC and the software blows. I can't do basic things I was able to on my last box, such as set recording priority in the shows list.

So I went back and swapped for an 8300HDC because I remembered that number, but the crappy software is the same. So now I'm thinking I had an 8300HD.

So what's the difference, besides this one apparently lacking features I relied on. Should I go back and see if they have an 8300HD?

The HDC boxes are OCAP. Meaning they have a cable card in them. That also means they can't run the same software as a non-C box. Thats why you will see references to both ODN and MDN. ODN (OCAP Digital Navigator) is the version that runs on the C boxes. MDN (Mystro Digital Navigator) is the version that runs on non-C boxes.

From what I have seen, ODN lacks some of the features of MDN. However, I have only seen the 2.X ODN that is deployed in our area. There is a 3.1 version of ODN that I heard has brought ODN pretty much up to par featurewise with MDN. But don't quote me on that.

I rarely use the recording log since it's ultimately pointless.It shouldn't entirely be, if it was done right. I haven't looked closely at the one for Navigator, but TiVo's lists recordings that were made, recordings that weren't made, upcoming recordings that will not be made and recordings that were deleted. For "were made" and "will not be made" it gives reasons (stuff like "conflicts/conflicted with two other higher priority recording requests"; if it's "will not be made", you have a chance to make your own choice and fix it ("I think I'd rather record that new episode of Program C instead of that repeat of Program A, thanks").

When I've unhappily missed recording something (or it got deleted for some reason before you could watch it), it can be quite useful to know the reason why, so I can take steps to avoid it happening again in the future.

The HDC boxes are OCAP. Meaning they have a cable card in them. That also means they can't run the same software as a non-C box. Thats why you will see references to both ODN and MDN. ODN (OCAP Digital Navigator) is the version that runs on the C boxes. MDN (Mystro Digital Navigator) is the version that runs on non-C boxes.

From what I have seen, ODN lacks some of the features of MDN. However, I have only seen the 2.X ODN that is deployed in our area. There is a 3.1 version of ODN that I heard has brought ODN pretty much up to par featurewise with MDN. But don't quote me on that.

So it sounds like I should go back and ask for an HD instead of an HDC.

Thanks. I forgot one of the other frustrations: the "go back a few seconds" button doesn't work. arggg

The HDC boxes are OCAP. Meaning they have a cable card in them. That also means they can't run the same software as a non-C box. Thats why you will see references to both ODN and MDN. ODN (OCAP Digital Navigator) is the version that runs on the C boxes. MDN (Mystro Digital Navigator) is the version that runs on non-C boxes.

From what I have seen, ODN lacks some of the features of MDN. However, I have only seen the 2.X ODN that is deployed in our area. There is a 3.1 version of ODN that I heard has brought ODN pretty much up to par featurewise with MDN. But don't quote me on that.

I believe the other difference is that the HDC has more memory than the HD boxes. Something like 128 to 64???

I think that technically, they "can't" deploy HDs... because it has "integrated security." I think it was 7/1/07 after which they could NOT deploy boxes with integrated security. Thus the need for a cable card in the HDC. The "security" is basically the authorization they need to supply the channels to YOU. However, at least in my market, for 6 months after that date it was impossible for anyone to get a HD box... however, I have seen posts with folks claming to have wrangled one out of TWC.

I believe the other difference is that the HDC has more memory than the HD boxes. Something like 128 to 64???

I think that technically, they "can't" deploy HDs... because it has "integrated security." I think it was 7/1/07 after which they could NOT deploy boxes with integrated security. Thus the need for a cable card in the HDC. The "security" is basically the authorization they need to supply the channels to YOU. However, at least in my market, for 6 months after that date it was impossible for anyone to get a HD box... however, I have seen posts with folks claming to have wrangled one out of TWC.

The new ODN version has all of the features of MDN.The two guides as far as features are now on par with each other.

It shouldn't entirely be, if it was done right. I haven't looked closely at the one for Navigator, but TiVo's lists recordings that were made, recordings that weren't made, upcoming recordings that will not be made and recordings that were deleted.

Except it doesn't list them in the order of deletion, it lists them in order of recording. If something has recently vanished from the recordings list I'd like to know why but it can't tell you that unless you know the exact program that vanished.

And the most pointless thing is when the box deletes something or doesn't record a show for any logical reason the only thing it says is "unable to record this program," which is of no help.

I know it wasn't able to record the program based on the fact that it didn't. What I'd like to know is why. :rolleyes:

Humdinger70,

San Diego uses ODN 3.1.0_11 and MDN 2.4.4-14. 2.4.4-15 isn't deployed yet in San Diego. I hope it does get deployed if it doesn't mess up eSATA support.

Yeah, I think somebody mentioned something about the ODN -11 version on the local San Diego HDTV board.

I think San Diego (and the Raleigh, CA area) have been designated 'test' regions by TWC management, so that we get the newer releases earlier than others. Makes some sense because they have people on both coasts and in different environments to be able to test the new releases.

The fact that the MDN -15 release has been deployed in the Carolinas probably means we'll ('we' being people like me who still have the legacy 8300HD box) see it real soon now.

(Now if our local management would wake up and turn on Versus HD and Golf HD channels - we've got guide data - why no actual programming and just a 'coming soon' screen? :confused::confused:)

Except it doesn't list them in the order of deletion, it lists them in order of recording. If something has recently vanished from the recordings list I'd like to know why but it can't tell you that unless you know the exact program that vanished.Why would I look at the log unless I was looking for something specific? I expect to see a new episode of Program A in the list of recordings but it's not there, so I look at the log to find out why.
And the most pointless thing is when the box deletes something or doesn't record a show for any logical reason the only thing it says is "unable to record this program," which is of no help.Okay--that is useless. TiVo's log tells me why.

Why would I look at the log unless I was looking for something specific? I expect to see a new episode of Program A in the list of recordings but it's not there, so I look at the log to find out why.

Say for example you thought you had an episode of My Name is Earl stacked on the DVR that appears to have been erased. Ideally you would go to the recording log and see the newest entry as "My name is Earl deleted to free space on XXX date."

But it doesn't.

It logs the deletion in the order you recorded them, so if you cannot remember when you recorded it and have already watched and deleted a few episodes you have no indication which episode might have been auto deleted until you go through every single one to check the log message.

If Nav has automatically deleted a few episodes over time then you have no idea if it did it recently or not, since the log message will be identical and the only date stamp it shows is from the time you recorded the show.

If Nav has automatically deleted a few episodes over time then you have no idea if it did it recently or not, since the log message will be identical and the only date stamp it shows is from the time you recorded the show.I see your point and I'd already surmised that Navigator's log, as it exists now, is useless. TiVo does put deletion events in the log when they happen, time and date stamps each log entry and gives a fairly long, politely worded explanation for each if you select an entry.

So it sounds like I should go back and ask for an HD instead of an HDC.

Thanks. I forgot one of the other frustrations: the "go back a few seconds" button doesn't work. arggg


I use URC's MX900 remote, but the "REPLAY" (go back a 10? seconds) works just fine on my ODN Version 2.4.10_11 2008/06/05 HDC box.

Long time lurker, first time caller.

SA-8000 (don't laugh - it was a step up from analog), MDN 2.4.1-108

Has anyone ever had this happen:
Over Sunday and Monday (12/14-12/15), programs that had existed the day before in Scheduled Recordings, which had been populated via Series Manager, disappeared.

These same programs were then "unfindable" by Find Shows (the series appeared in the list, but no showings were found).

The listings showed up correctly in the IPG, and could be individually selected for recording that way.

There was no rhyme or reason as to which programs disappeared; other series on the channels in question remained populated in Scheduled Recordings and were findable.

I Live Chatted with a T-W rep, who scheduled a service rep for Friday and recommended a box swap if I wanted faster results. Meanwhile, on Monday evening, the problems were resolved - my programs had magically reappeared.

I gave it a day, and I'll call T-W tomorrow to cancel the visit...

I don't have much technical expertise in this area, but I did notice that an item on page 2 of Diagnostics, Tuning Table Status, was timestamped as 12/12 when it was screwed up, and as 12/15 when it was working again.

So, was it MY box, the fact it's an 8000, cursèd Navigator flakiness, or something T-W did on their end?

Speaking of flakiness, my STB freezes and reboots if you so much as give it a harsh stare. I don't dare try to rewind a program it's currently recording, or if it's recording something on the other tuner. Or try to enter a channel number and let my finger accidentally press digit + Stop. Or Channel-up too quickly through On Demands or Music Choice channels. Or...you get the picture.
Again, just me?

Grr.

Long time lurker, first time caller.

SA-8000 (don't laugh - it was a step up from analog), MDN 2.4.1-108

Has anyone ever had this happen:
Over Sunday and Monday (12/14-12/15), programs that had existed the day before in Scheduled Recordings, which had been populated via Series Manager, disappeared.

These same programs were then "unfindable" by Find Shows (the series appeared in the list, but no showings were found).

The listings showed up correctly in the IPG, and could be individually selected for recording that way.

There was no rhyme or reason as to which programs disappeared; other series on the channels in question remained populated in Scheduled Recordings and were findable.

I Live Chatted with a T-W rep, who scheduled a service rep for Friday and recommended a box swap if I wanted faster results. Meanwhile, on Monday evening, the problems were resolved - my programs had magically reappeared.

I gave it a day, and I'll call T-W tomorrow to cancel the visit...

I don't have much technical expertise in this area, but I did notice that an item on page 2 of Diagnostics, Tuning Table Status, was timestamped as 12/12 when it was screwed up, and as 12/15 when it was working again.

So, was it MY box, the fact it's an 8000, cursèd Navigator flakiness, or something T-W did on their end?

Speaking of flakiness, my STB freezes and reboots if you so much as give it a harsh stare. I don't dare try to rewind a program it's currently recording, or if it's recording something on the other tuner. Or try to enter a channel number and let my finger accidentally press digit + Stop. Or Channel-up too quickly through On Demands or Music Choice channels. Or...you get the picture.
Again, just me?

Grr.

Welcome to the forum!

I was originally going to suggest keeping your SA 8000 until I read your last paragraph. Due to the issues experienced in your last paragraph, I would NOT cancel the service call. Let the tech know what you said above, and I am sure that he will give you a new box, which should provide better results. Navigator in most areas is now up to TOLERABLE standards. A good working box is key. Keep your service appointment! He can also do signal/line tests, and service calls are free, so it should help you out.

Post back, especially after the tech's visit and tell us what he did. BTW, what city are you in or near? This information can be used to help us gage the type and model of Navigator box you have and the boxes that are being distributed in your area.

Jack

looks like NC is getting another update sometime today. if it hasnt already happened. ( i cant check to make sure.) aside from a few more HD channels anounced for today. i also found this.

Start Over™ Channel Guide

With Start Over™, the entertainment is ready when you are! And with dozens of popular networks to select from, you’ll have more fun surfing and finding great shows to Start Over on your schedule.

Not all shows on the below channels are Start Over enabled. So look for the Start Over bar or launch the Enhanced TV menu to be sure a show is available to restart.

Start Over will be available in your area December 18!
Participating channels include:

Big Ten Network
Biography
Boomerang
Do it Yourself Network
ESPN Classic
ESPN U
Fine Living
Flix
Fox Movie Channel
Great American Country
National Geographic Channel
Noggin
Showtime
Showtime Extreme East
Sleuth
SoapNet
Sundance Channel East
The N (formerly GAS)
The Movie Channel East
The Movie Channel Extra
TruTV

So it sounds like I should go back and ask for an HD instead of an HDC.

Thanks. I forgot one of the other frustrations: the "go back a few seconds" button doesn't work. arggg

Oh, it works. It just goes back 3 seconds and not the claimed 7 or 8. As with the infuriating REW button, there is a workaround - just hit the button multiple times. But the point is, you shouldn't have to; it should work as advertised. These are easy fixes, and they just haven't bothered. They do update the color scheme regularly though.

Start Over will be available in your area December 18!
Participating channels include:

Big Ten Network
Biography
Boomerang
Do it Yourself Network
ESPN Classic
ESPN U
Fine Living
Flix
Fox Movie Channel
Great American Country
National Geographic Channel
Noggin
Showtime
Showtime Extreme East
Sleuth
SoapNet
Sundance Channel East
The N (formerly GAS)
The Movie Channel East
The Movie Channel Extra
TruTV

That's Charlotte only for that date. Based on the channels I'm not missing that feature.

Oh, it works. It just goes back 3 seconds and not the claimed 7 or 8. As with the infuriating REW button, there is a workaround - just hit the button multiple times. But the point is, you shouldn't have to; it should work as advertised. These are easy fixes, and they just haven't bothered. They do update the color scheme regularly though.

The biggest nightmare with the RR-FF and Instant Replay buttons is using them for On Demand Channels. This is where a future update may allow them to be more exact. We got the recent update to Navigator with the nice new color scheme. Responses seem to be faster, and On Demand Channel selections seem to be more reliable.

Jack

That's Charlotte only for that date. Based on the channels I'm not missing that feature.

may be just the Charlotte TWC area . i don't have zip codes for other TWC divisions so i couldn't check those.
http://www.timewarnercable.com/Carolinas/products/cable/Start_Over/channelguide.html

and i agree with you concerning the channels.

may be just the Charlotte TWC area . i don't have zip codes for other TWC divisions so i couldn't check those.
http://www.timewarnercable.com/Carolinas/products/cable/Start_Over/channelguide.html

and i agree with you concerning the channels.

In theory it's a useful tool if you forget to set the DVR. But considering the channels it's useable on have limited major programming as it is and most of the time the show you miss will be repeated constantly or three hours later it's not something you would use often.

TWC to launch free Start Over service
12/15/2008 05:12 PM
By: News 14 Carolina Web Staff

CHARLOTTE -- Time Warner Cable will launch a new, free, digital interactive service called Start Over on Thursday in the Charlotte region.

Start Over allows digital cable customers join a program in progress then restart that program from the very beginning, even if the viewer did not record the show.

Viewers can start a show over up until the scheduled end time for the program.

The service will be available on 21 channels beginning Dec. 18, and the total number of Start Over channels will increase in the coming months.

Time Warner Cable is the parent company of News 14 Carolina.

Start Over Basics

Start Over is available on selected shows on designated channels.
• A list of the channels that will offer Start Over enabled programs on December 18th is provided below. As time goes on, more and more programs and channels will become Start Over enabled.

Big Ten Network
Flix
Sleuth
Biography
Fox Movie Channel
SoapNet
Boomerang
Great American Country
Sundance Channel East
Do it Yourself Network
National Geographic Channel
The N (formerly GAS)
ESPN Classic
Noggin
The Movie Channel East
ESPN U
Showtime
The Movie Channel Extra
Fine Living
Showtime Extreme East
TruTV

If a program is Start Over enabled, it is very easy to restart a program while it is in progress
• When tuning to a channel that supports Start Over, if the program you wish to view is Start Over enabled, you will immediately notice the Start Over logo on the bottom of your viewing screen
• Press Select on your remote to activate a Start Over request.
• Press Select on your remote to confirm you would like to Start Over the program or push the red “C” button on your remote to cancel the request and return to live TV.
• Once you Start Over a program, you may press the Exit button on your remote, or simply channel up or down to return to live TV.
o The Start Over logo will be viewable for about 5 seconds when you first tune to a program that is Start Over enabled. You can also press the Select button on your remote at any time on any channel to see if the program is Start Over enabled.

When you Start Over a program, you can view it with the following limitations
• It is available for two and a half times the length of the original program. So, a 30 minute show has a viewing window in Start Over of one hour and 15 minutes; a one hour show is available for two and a half hours; a two hour show is available for five hours, etc.
• You may pause your Start Over program. Please remember, however, the Start Over window is only available for two and a half times the length of the program, so if you pause the show several times, you could run the risk of not receiving the entire program before the viewing window expires.

If you are a DVR customer and you are watching Start Over enabled programming that was not pre-recorded
• You will not be able to use the Fast-Forward or Rewind keys on your remote for that program.
• You will not be able to start recording a show that you have started over and conversely, you may not Start over a program you have previously set-up as a DVR recording.
• The Start Over feature does not change your normal DVR functionality, except on a show that has been actively started over.

http://news14.com/Default.aspx?ArID=602532

looks like NC is getting another update sometime today. if it hasnt already happened. ( i cant check to make sure.) aside from a few more HD channels anounced for today. i also found this.

Start Over™ Channel Guide

With Start Over™, the entertainment is ready when you are! And with dozens of popular networks to select from, you’ll have more fun surfing and finding great shows to Start Over on your schedule.

Not all shows on the below channels are Start Over enabled. So look for the Start Over bar or launch the Enhanced TV menu to be sure a show is available to restart.

Start Over will be available in your area December 18!
Participating channels include:

Big Ten Network
Biography
Boomerang
Do it Yourself Network
ESPN Classic
ESPN U
Fine Living
Flix
Fox Movie Channel
Great American Country
National Geographic Channel
Noggin
Showtime
Showtime Extreme East
Sleuth
SoapNet
Sundance Channel East
The N (formerly GAS)
The Movie Channel East
The Movie Channel Extra
TruTV

Greensboro has had Startover and quick clips for over a year now.

I honestly could care less about Start Over. Get the HD and work on Navigator. Those two things will keep most people happy. As I've been stating, TW has until spring in my division. If I don't see a significant difference from what I have now I'm done waiting.

Long time lurker, first time caller.

SA-8000 (don't laugh - it was a step up from analog), MDN 2.4.1-108


So, was it MY box, the fact it's an 8000, cursèd Navigator flakiness, or something T-W did on their end?

Speaking of flakiness, my STB freezes and reboots if you so much as give it a harsh stare. I don't dare try to rewind a program it's currently recording, or if it's recording something on the other tuner. Or try to enter a channel number and let my finger accidentally press digit + Stop. Or Channel-up too quickly through On Demands or Music Choice channels. Or...you get the picture.
Again, just me?

Grr.

I have an SA-8000 and it's very flakey too. It re-boots with little provocation. I am in Charlotte, NC.

They have never done anything about the features that were lost or messed up with the switch to navigator. The reliability just seems to get worse.

Maybe they do have a better solution. I gave up trying a few months back. I just switched to at&t U-verse. After 1 week, not a flaw.

I wish we had multiple options here. It's either TW or one of the satcos. I'd love to have options like FiOS and UVerse as well.

I have an SA-8000 and it's very flaky too. It re-boots with little provocation. I am in Charlotte, NC.

They have never done anything about the features that were lost or messed up with the switch to navigator. The reliability just seems to get worse.

Maybe they do have a better solution. I gave up trying a few months back. I just switched to at&t U-verse. After 1 week, not a flaw.

You should call TWC and have them swap out your box for an 8300 DVR or higher. (If the new Cisco or Samsung's are in your area yet.) You should at least be able to get an SA 8300 DVR with no problems. The SA 8000 DVR's are getting up there in age, and almost every one with whom I talk, has said changing to a newer model box makes performance a lot better.

Jack

You should call TWC and have them swap out your box for an 8300 DVR or higher. (If the new Cisco or Samsung's are in your area yet.) You should at least be able to get an SA 8300 DVR with no problems. The SA 8000 DVR's are getting up there in age, and almost every one with whom I talk, has said changing to a newer model box makes performance a lot better.

Jack

Thanks for the replies. :)

I'm in Dayton, Ohio.

I'm going to be in and out of the house over the holidays and unable to monitor what the STB is up to, so for right now, I've decided to stick with the devil I know rather than swap out another 8000 or get an 8300.

In the new year, I'll probably look into a change.

Also, the CSR I spoke with told me there was no way to save my Series or Settings through a swap. Since Aggrav-gator has no keyword searching like Passport had, this would be a huge drag. Will this unfortunately be the only time a T-W CSR knew what he was talking about?

Thanks for the replies. :)

I'm in Dayton, Ohio.

I'm going to be in and out of the house over the holidays and unable to monitor what the STB is up to, so for right now, I've decided to stick with the devil I know rather than swap out another 8000 or get an 8300.

In the new year, I'll probably look into a change.

Also, the CSR I spoke with told me there was no way to save my Series or Settings through a swap. Since Aggrav-gator has no keyword searching like Passport had, this would be a huge drag. Will this unfortunately be the only time a T-W CSR knew what he was talking about?

Yes,

The CSR is correct. When you get a new box, it is not possible to transfer settings or recordings. The activation process of the new box, puts all settings back at factory default. There is no "cure all" for this industry. If your current box is working up to par, you should keep it. One note is that if you DO swap your box, I can virtually assure you that you will NOT get another SA 8000. DVR users would get at the very LEAST an SA 8300C box or the new Samsug or Cisco models. Does anyone know the model numbers for the new Cisco or Samsug boxes? (Both DVR and non-DVR models)

Jack

I've been missing some series recordings lately since the upgrade to 2.4.4-15 on 12/11 and finally looked into it this morning. I went into Scheduled Recordings and only found 2 shows to be recorded - one is a series and the other is a football game scheduled for Sunday night.

On most of the series recordings I have them set to record at a particular time - 8pm for instance - instead of "all showings". If I change it to "all showings" the Scheduled Recordings displays the show as to be recorded. Setting it back to "8pm only" removes it from the Scheduled Recordings.

Rebooting the box did not help, deleting the recording and re-adding it fixed the problem. What a pain ...

Jim

Yes,

The CSR is correct. When you get a new box, it is not possible to transfer settings or recordings. The activation process of the new box, puts all settings back at factory default. There is no "cure all" for this industry. If your current box is working up to par, you should keep it. One note is that if you DO swap your box, I can virtually assure you that you will NOT get another SA 8000. DVR users would get at the very LEAST an SA 8300C box or the new Samsug or Cisco models. Does anyone know the model numbers for the new Cisco or Samsug boxes? (Both DVR and non-DVR models)

Jack

I wouldn't expect any divisions to carry the new Cisco/SA boxes. TW hopped into bed with Sammy a year ago:
http://www.samsung.com/global/business/telecommunication/newsView.do?b2b_bbs_msg_id=57

It is rumored (and I believe a few posters have infact been given this box recently) the non DVR is going to be the SMT-H3050:
http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/detail/detail.do?group=audiovideo&type=digitalsettopbox&subtype=hdtvtuners&model_cd=SMT-H3050E/TWC

And the DVR is rumored to be the SMT-H3090:
http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/detail/detail.do?group=audiovideo&type=digitalsettopbox&subtype=hdtvtuners&model_cd=SMT-H3090/TWC

Notice the "TWC" at the end of each of those URL's. That pretty much confirms it in my mind.

I have been getting more frequent reboots with this update, about every other day. (i.e the new Navigator Upgrade in San Diego, sections of the Carolinas and Milwaukee Wisconsin.) This happens when I go into the DVR Show List. On my MDN box, the reboots are fast. But I hope TWC did not create more new problems in the process of fixing "other" things.

I would presume the C-boxes are due for the upgrade before the end of the year. (In my area.)

Jack

I have been getting more frequent reboots with this update, about every other day. (i.e the new Navigator Upgrade in San Diego, sections of the Carolinas and Milwaukee Wisconsin.) This happens when I go into the DVR Show List. On my MDN box, the reboots are fast. But I hope TWC did not create more new problems in the process of fixing "other" things.

I would presume the C-boxes are due for the upgrade before the end of the year. (In my area.)

JackIt's been my experience that frequent reboots were caused by poor signal. Since TWC cleaned up my signal strength, I've gone weeks between reboots.

It's been my experience that frequent reboots were caused by poor signal. Since TWC cleaned up my signal strength, I've gone weeks between reboots.

I think it could be the guide itself,

Before the guide update I could go 2-3 weeks without a reboot easily. I was changed over around December 9th. It just started happening. However, I must take into consideration a lot of system changes and HD channels that have been recently added may have caused these issues. (Also had some pixiation for a day or two, now that has cleared up.) All channels (except for a Public Access station) are clear as a bell with no evidence of snow or static. Responses are faster than previous, and On Demand is also more reliable.

Jack

Jack, I have been having the same problems with the re-boot especially when I am in the guide here in Kenosha.

Jack, I have been having the same problems with the re-boot especially when I am in the guide here in Kenosha.

Yea,

Yesterday nothing happened and the way the reboot happens is usually, when I bring up the Show List on the DVR, it will be blank and than almost immediately reboot. The reboot is fast (MDN box) Just to go off-topic for a bit. I had heavy pixiation on This TV channel 201, which comes and goes from time to time. The other day, it was so bad as to be unwatchable, but it's ONLY on that channel. Yesterday was fine.

A plus is that we are FINALLY getting the Chiller Channel in January! Now, if they could just give us NFL Network and Retro TV. (which according to Retro TV's site, IS available in TWC Green Bay,) we'd be all set!

Jack

Now, if they could just give us NFL Network and Retro TV. (which according to Retro TV's site, IS available in TWC Green Bay,) we'd be all set!According to this (http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6613708.html?rssid=193) article from 11 November, TWC and Comcast are still feuding with the NFL Network:A spokesman said there are no ongoing negotiations with Time Warner, and that it continues to fight to have Comcast offer the NFL Network on its basic tier rather than its sports tier, for which consumers pay an extra monthly fee. Cable operators balk at offering the expensive network on basic because they would have to either raise rates for all customers or eat the monthly charge. The NFL Network is available in 42 million homes nationwide.I'm afraid that I'm on TWC's side with this one--not being a huge football fan, I'm opposed to all subs being charged for the additional of the NFL channel. Of course, as Digital Sports Pack subscribers--for The Tennis Channel (for me) and Fox Sports Soccer (for my housemate)--we'd end up paying for it anyway, but at least it'd be at our choice.

Merry christmas to all.may your day be filled with merry and joy.have a great day all!

Merry christmas to all.may your day be filled with merry and joy.have a great day all!

And no Navigator reboots!!! LOL!!!!

Have a great one, my friends!

Jack

A spokesman said there are no ongoing negotiations with Time Warner, and that it continues to fight to have Comcast offer the NFL Network on its basic tier rather than its sports tier, for which consumers pay an extra monthly fee.

Clarification for some people I know in other states with Comcast,

Does this mean that Comcast is now offering NFL Network on the optional Sports Package and NFL Network wants it on standard service? I think that is what I read. Or does this mean that Comcast and TWC are still fighting over where to put the channel?

As for TWC, we know they have these hurdles to work out:

1.) The cost of the channel to subs and

2.) Whether to make the channel optional on the sports package or available to everyone on Standard Service. I wonder why they just couldn't put NFL Network on Digital Service, but not on the optional sports package. (Excluding channels 105-125)

Or for TWC, putting it on analog like the did with Big Ten Network? Thoughts?

(Sorry to get OT from Navigator, but I wanted to add to the question above. Thanks!)

Jack

...I just got a notice from TW announcing that the Navigator roll out will happen in January I am still happily running Passport....for those of you who have Navigator do you still have the option of turning off the hard drive when you turn off the box?...hearing a constant hum all night in my bedroom is not attractive to me and Passport allows the hard drive to turn off when the box is turned off for the night....thanks in advance...

After using Mystro for a couple months now I came across a hidden command. I know that when you press and hold the Select button then press the Down arrow, this will show the diagnostic pages. I also found that if you press the Right arrow after holding Select, the box will display "hdn", which is actually a command to access hidden channels (punch in the channel number if you know it when it says "hdn"). However, if you press the LEFT arrow or Page(-) down after holding Select, the front display will show "CH:UP", which is a prompt to press Channel Up on the remote. Does anyone know what this command is for or what it does? I'm afraid to try this on my only box because I don't know what it does. This is with Mystro Digital Navigator 2.4.1 running on a legacy Explorer 8300 (not the CableCard/OCAP version).

Clarification for some people I know in other states with Comcast,

Does this mean that Comcast is now offering NFL Network on the optional Sports Package and NFL Network wants it on standard service? I think that is what I read. Or does this mean that Comcast and TWC are still fighting over where to put the channel?What I read in the notice is that Comcast does not yet offer it, but they're still trying to negotiate terms that they can live with. TWC isn't offering it, and they aren't in active negotiations. A notice on their corporate site (http://www.timewarnercable.com/corporate/site.faqs/Cable/Sports/Does-Time-Warner-carry-an-NFL-):Q: Does Time Warner carry an NFL sports package?

A: Unfortunately, not at this time, here’s the story…The issue: The NFL is waging a campaign to try and mandate Time Warner Cable to carry the NFL Network and force our customers to pay for expensive sports programming that they may not want.

Time Warner Cable’s position: We have offered to carry the NFL Network on a Sports Tier. Customers choosing to subscribe to the Sports Tier would have access to this programming at their choice. Customers choosing not to subscribe to the Sports Tier would not have to pay for this expensive programming.

The NFL’s response: The NFL, however, is still insisting that the network be placed on a broad-based tier, which would result higher costs for customers who may not be interested in NFLN. By refusing our offer, the NFL is denying the public access to games that were once available on broadcast or other more widely distributed networks.

Time Warner’s last proposal: To put the interests of fans first, Time Warner Cable submitted a new proposal to carry the NFL Network on a Sports Tier or premium basis. This time, we proposed to make the NFLN games available to our customers on a per-game basis, at a retail price set by the NFL, with 100% of the revenue collected for this programming going to the NFL. While offering this with no mark-up is far from ideal from our point of view, we are willing to take this step to make sure no interested customer is unable to watch these games.

The NFL has rejected this offer too.

NFLN appeals to only a small segment of our customers and it is highly priced. We continue to believe that the most appropriate place for NFLN is on a Sports Tier. When the NFL is willing to compromise, we will resume negotiations.This is off topic in this thread so we should drop it. If you're interested, there's a long thread on the topic here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=704702) in the HDTV Programming Forum (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=34).

This is off topic in this thread so we should drop it. If you're interested, there's a long thread on the topic here in the HDTV Programming Forum.

Thanks, I agree. Back to the discussions of Navigator.

Jack

NYC will be the last to deploy MDN. At least thats what a Tech said. That means those HD boxes may some day be able to access HD VOD. I think NYC will get it sometime next year. It will be a big rollout. The tech also said that they can't afford to have the problems that the other divisions have had when deploying MDN.

NYC will be the last to deploy MDN. At least thats what a Tech said. That means those HD boxes may some day be able to access HD VOD. I think NYC will get it sometime next year. It will be a big rollout. The tech also said that they can't afford to have the problems that the other divisions have had when deploying MDN.

Hopefully by that time, Samsung 3090s will be deployed (and prove to be a much better choice than the 8300HDC). Besides, it's my understanding MDN isn't really OCAP capable...

The actual good news is that they did NOT have to force MDN in order to bring HD count from 30 to close to 100... they got rid of a bunch of analog channels to do that.

Hopefully by that time, Samsung 3090s will be deployed (and prove to be a much better choice than the 8300HDC). Besides, it's my understanding MDN isn't really OCAP capable...MDN isn't OCAP capable. What does that have to do with what he said?

just stumbled across something.

watching a pvred show. i changed the channel by pressing the number keys on the remote. i pressed last on the remote thinking i would get back to the previous channel i was watching (not the recorded show i was watching). i was shocked when the show i was watching came back up in the paused position.

It looks like Navigator is going to make its way to our boxes here in the South Bay in the next few weeks. I got a packet in the mail yesterday outlining all of its "features". I'll be very interested to see how this works on my old trusty 8300 Passport box, I will forever miss thee. :(

Still NOTHING out of anyone here at our division. Nothing on Navigator, Nothing on the new HD announced over a month ago, Nothing on any new equipment. As of this moment, the only thing holding me from switching is the high cost of satellite. DirecTV is going to cost a TON more (even giving up one outlet) than TWC, but it may be worth it. TWC is just getting ridiculous around here.

It looks like Navigator is going to make its way to our boxes here in the South Bay in the next few weeks. I got a packet in the mail yesterday outlining all of its "features". I'll be very interested to see how this works on my old trusty 8300 Passport box, I will forever miss thee. :(I'm in the same small division as you (El Segundo/Torrance/Gardena/Hawthorne). I also just got a flyer in the mail saying that "The Amazing New Navigator" will arrive on all DVRs and Receivers sometime over a two-month rollout starting in late January. But the funny thing is i got the same letter back in November of 2006 (yes, two years ago) but it never happened and to this day my 8300HDs still have Passport. I had been reading so many horror stories here about Navigator that i immediately bought a Tivo Series 3 as soon as it became available (Dec 2006) in anticipation of my 8300HDs getting Navigator shoved down our throats, whereupon i'd planned to turn them in - but it never happened and they've all been working flawlessly with Passport. Maybe they're serious this time :)

It's not a big deal to me anymore since i use my Tivo for 98% of my viewing, but i'm more worried about my girlfriend who only has the one 8300HD. But it sounds like today's Navigator is leagues better than it was two years ago so maybe it won't impact her so much.

I'm in the same small division as you (El Segundo/Torrance/Gardena/Hawthorne). I also just got a flyer in the mail saying that "The Amazing New Navigator" will arrive on all DVRs and Receivers sometime over a two-month rollout starting in late January. But the funny thing is i got the same letter back in November of 2006 (yes, two years ago) but it never happened and to this day my 8300HDs still have Passport. I had been reading so many horror stories here about Navigator that i immediately bought a Tivo Series 3 as soon as it became available (Dec 2006) in anticipation of my 8300HDs getting Navigator shoved down our throats, whereupon i'd planned to turn them in - but it never happened and they've all been working flawlessly with Passport. Maybe they're serious this time :)

It's not a big deal to me anymore since i use my Tivo for 98% of my viewing, but i'm more worried about my girlfriend who only has the one 8300HD. But it sounds like today's Navigator is leagues better than it was two years ago so maybe it won't impact her so much.
I have Navigator at my beach house.It is 95% ready for prime time now.Needs a few more important features such as manual recording and keyword search to be all the way in primetime.But it is a much much improved platform from 2 years ago.

I have Navigator at my beach house.It is 95% ready for prime time now.Needs a few more important features such as manual recording and keyword search to be all the way in primetime.But it is a much much improved platform from 2 years ago.

Agree totally,

The differences of the Navigator now when compared to two years ago are like night and day. Give me Keyboard Theme Search and Manual Recording, and it would be just about equal to Passport. There are even some things that are better than Passport now such as:

The ability to see what Sports, Kids, and HD content are showing now, all in one place.

Extremely in-depth categories and sub-categories for searching

The new Navigator 3's interface looks polished and professional. (No more sickly blue-on-blue, all-blue.)

Keyboard letter-wrapping

Searches are faster

On-Demand is more reliable.

A couple of notes: If your closed captioning did not work on your Passport box, it most likely will not work on Navigator either. This is my case. The newer 8300C boxes with Navigator in them pre-installed are reporting better results with closed-captioning. However, boot times are a bit slower and the OCAP (C-boxes) browse a bit slower than the MDN upgraded boxes, but both versions are LIGHT YEARS better than what Navigator was.

You may or may not get a phone call or e-mail the day before the upgrade. Last year in January 2007 I got an upgrade notice, but was not converted until mid April 2008. I got the information about Navigator in April through a mailing, 3 days AFTER it was downloaded to my box!.

The upgrade will generally happen sometime between 2-6 am on the night in question. Generally between 3-4 am. Your box will suddenly go off without warning and than turn itself on again. You may or may not get an upgrade message on the screen.

A sequence of numbers may appear that will have a letter and number combination. This will vary depending on the type of box you have. The clock display will automatically show something like F-1 or F-100 where the time is. The sequence will begin counting up to 100 or down from 100 as the download of Navigator is sent to the box. The process may or may not reverse itself when it gets down to or up to 100. YOU SHOULD DO NOTHING DURING THIS TIME! Wait until you see the time display on your box. Than there may be a short delay when you turn the TV or box back on. There may be one more quick reboot by the system if you change or go into Settings. Check things like Audio, Video, Banner Duration, and so on. The right-side of the screen will show you what the default is for a certain setting.

You can also check your aspect ratio and audio settings. You may need to change your screen resolution settings of you have an HD TV as well. You can change your Audio Settings to match either your box or sound system. An audio default is "Narrow Audio Range" which allows for consistent listening levels without volume changes when changing channels or when commercials play. I LOVE THIS FEATURE!

It takes some getting used to the new menus. But once you get used to them, you will see a lot of functionality that Passport did not have.

THE ONLY AREA WHERE YOU MIGHT HAVE PROBLEMS SUCH AS SLOW RESPONSE TIMES, OR SLUGGISH LOADING DATA SCREENS IS IF YOU STILL HAVE AN OLD NOW DEFUNCT PIONEER CABLE BOX OR VERY OLD SA NON-DVR. THERE ARE SLUGGISHNESS ISSUES AND FREQUENT REBOOTS WITH THE SA-8000 DVR. A general rule of thumb is that if your box is more than 6 years old, you should swap it out if you have the above problems. 5 years old or less, you should be OK. The new Samsung boxes I have heard handle Navigator pretty well. Consider these issues in Navigator's functionality.

Jack

TWC San Diego downloaded ODN v3.1.0_11 at 12:11 AM for our 2 OCAP boxes. I have an 8300HDC and a 4250HDC. I can't wait for our division to deploy the SMT-H3090. Of course San Diego seems to get the latest ODN revisions and possibly MDN.

There are even some things that are better than Passport now such as:

I still don't think Nav is even close to Passport yet.

The ability to see what Sports, Kids, and HD content are showing now, all in one place.

You mean the Access menu? I have never used that once. The same type of thing thing was easily accessible in the Passport search menu.

Extremely in-depth categories and sub-categories for searching

Again something I have never used. Why? Because the results searching brings up usually consist of multiple items that have the same title with little or no description to indicate where or when they are on without having to drill down through the results. Then you can see if one of them is on a Spanish language channel or not. :rolleyes:

The new Navigator 3's interface looks polished and professional. (No more sickly blue-on-blue, all-blue.)

Not an improvement over Passport. Just an improvement over amateurish design.

Keyboard letter-wrapping

If Navigator automatically entered the title of the show you were looking at in the guide as Passport did, I would never need to use the keyboard. Plus it also brings up the vague results described above. And I don't think the keyboard is as responsive as it was under Passport.

Searches are faster

But getting there and examining the results takes longer so the actual search performance evens out.

On-Demand is more reliable.[/B]


That one I'll give you.

If you want to see how far behind Navigator still is in basic functionality all you have to do is look at things like guide descriptions and the info banner.

An entry for something like Casino Royale would read: "A British spy (Daniel Craig) fights international bad guys." The number of times I've clicked more info thinking I'll actually get, you know, more info as we did in Passport I've lost count. Not even a director is listed. Navigator info is worthless.

Same with the status banner. Try watching a two hour movie live. There is no time code during live broadcasts so you basically have to guess whereabouts you are in the movie and on the progress bar if you want to jump back or forward for some reason.

And let me reiterate, we are comparing the 2008 version of Navigator to the 2005 version of Passport. Navigator should be better in all areas just based on the progress of technology. The fact that it's still only just comparable is sad.

I still don't think Nav is even close to Passport yet.



You mean the Access menu? I have never used that once. The same type of thing thing was easily accessible in the Passport search menu.



Again something I have never used. Why? Because the results searching brings up usually consist of multiple items that have the same title with little or no description to indicate where or when they are on without having to drill down through the results. Then you can see if one of them is on a Spanish language channel or not. :rolleyes:



Not an improvement over Passport. Just an improvement over amateurish design.



If Navigator automatically entered the title of the show you were looking at in the guide as Passport did, I would never need to use the keyboard. Plus it also brings up the vague results described above. And I don't think the keyboard is as responsive as it was under Passport.



But getting there and examining the results takes longer so the actual search performance evens out.



That one I'll give you.

If you want to see how far behind Navigator still is in basic functionality all you have to do is look at things like guide descriptions and the info banner.

An entry for something like Casino Royale would read: "A British spy (Daniel Craig) fights international bad guys." The number of times I've clicked more info thinking I'll actually get, you know, more info as we did in Passport I've lost count. Not even a director is listed. Navigator info is worthless.

Same with the status banner. Try watching a two hour movie live. There is no time code during live broadcasts so you basically have to guess whereabouts you are in the movie and on the progress bar if you want to jump back or forward for some reason.

And let me reiterate, we are comparing the 2008 version of Navigator to the 2005 version of Passport. Navigator should be better in all areas just based on the progress of technology. The fact that it's still only just comparable is sad.

Let me say haveing had both passport,sara and navigator.Navigator is getting close to passport(not there yet).However if you have sara as I do in my main home in Greensboro it will be a MASSIVE UPGRADE.Sara has no search engine to speak of.A clunky way to handle first run. Sara is also one of the ugly ipg's out there.It's very reliable but missing lot of features most dvr ipg;s have as a standard.Is it passport?Not yet but close.However it is LIGHT YEARS better than SARA.

The very fact that the discussion has turned to how close NAVIGATOR is to PASSPORT now shows how far Navigator has improved in 2 years.I see fewer and fewer horror stories on the forum about Navigator.A few bugs remain for some but for most Navigator seems to be settling in.WhenSARA areas receive Navigator Yes they will have some teething problems but I perdict less than Passport areas.My reason is Passport users enjoyed a stable feature rich guide which inthe beginning Navigator backsteped on.In SARA areas we have a stable but feature poor very feature poor guide.SARA users will welcome Navigator with open arms if it is stable as it it is in Passport areas(for most part).Navigator is a 10 year jump in future for SARA areas not a 3 year reverse like it was in Passport divisions.At least we will be all on same playing field in our future discussions.

Exactly! I'm actually craving Navigator here. Since I'm ready to basically dump TWC for DirecTV anyway, I want to see what TWC does with it's product. If they make enough of an improvement, I'll stay. However, things have stagnated badly. I recently inquired about the Navigator guide, new hardware and additional HD. Here's the reply I got:

Thank you for contacting Time Warner Cable support.

I understand that you would like to know when would you be able to view Fox News, Fox Business, Fx,
and Speed in HD as announced. You also would like to know about the new Navigator guide system and
equipment like the Cisco 8550 or newer models.

I apologize for the inconvenience.

For information regarding channels in HD as announced, new Navigator guide system and equipment like
the Cisco 8550 or newer models, Please contact us at (315) 634-6000/(607) 798-8001, and we will be
glad to assist you.

We value you as a Customer! (My emphasis added)

If you have any further questions or concerns, please feel free to E-mail us again or contact our
Live Chat at the following link:

http://www.timewarnercable.com/CustomerService/chat/chat.ashx

Customer Support is available 24/7.

Sincerely,

Sandy Matthews

Time Warner Cable Online Customer Service

Just shows TWC customer service still sucks. If TWC deploys new hardware with a usable version of Navigator and some of the high rated/high demand HD channels then I really have no reason to leave. We have a good amount of HD but still lack Fox News, Fx, USA, Sci-Fi to name a few big ones. We still have a few the even DirecTV doesn't have. The big issue is lousy placement and difficult navigation.


The only thing outside this scope I wish they'd do is dump all the analog and go to a full digital service. Other providers are doing this. Mediacom and Bresnan specifically. The are moving all channels to digital via either cablecard or converter. The best part, the basic digital converter for older analog sets is only $1 a month. They are moving 60-70 channels in some markets and reclaiming 300Mhz for HD additions all the while eliminating snowy and grainy pictures.

The only thing outside this scope I wish they'd do is dump all the analog and go to a full digital service. Other providers are doing this. Mediacom and Bresnan specifically. The are moving all channels to digital via either cablecard or converter. The best part, the basic digital converter for older analog sets is only $1 a month. They are moving 60-70 channels in some markets and reclaiming 300Mhz for HD additions all the while eliminating snowy and grainy pictures.

It was about 40 analog channels they dropped in my market to accommodate roughly 50-60 new HD channels without doing SDV. Should have left us with headroom to spare (plus there's another 30 or so analog still running).

Well, it's been 2 weeks now and we are seeing a LOT of nasty "glitching" that at times can make watching anything impossible. We've always had this, but not near as frequent as it is happening. Sometimes it's just audio, sometimes it's both video and audio. PalladiaHD seems like a great channel, but in the course of any single song, you'll get 2-8 breakups. For any drama, imagine hitting the mute button for 2-4 seconds just when some critical dialog is happening (for some reason, on dramas it seems it's just audio that glitches).

Well, we have fully functional SDV here. My gripe was TWC announced Fox News, Fox Business, Fx, and Speed in HD over a month ago and nothing yet. My point about going all digital was because our analog channels are CRAP. Snowy/Grainy and some are so bad they are unwatchable. The huge benefit is that going all digital would free up a massive amount of bandwidth because our market has a 1Ghz plant while at the same time providing better PQ. Bresnan who is going all digital was even giving customers a one time CREDIT of $20 because of the switch and providing the first $1 converter free. Seems like a no brainier to me. I'd gladly pay $1 an outlet for digital with the standard line up.

Let me say haveing had both passport,sara and navigator.Navigator is getting close to passport(not there yet).However if you have sara as I do in my main home in Greensboro it will be a MASSIVE UPGRADE.Sara has no search engine to speak of.A clunky way to handle first run. Sara is also one of the ugly ipg's out there.It's very reliable but missing lot of features most dvr ipg;s have as a standard.Is it passport?Not yet but close.However it is LIGHT YEARS better than SARA.

That's because anyone on TWC was basically in a lose/lose situation. Passport may have been slicker than SARA, but TWC kept Passport crippled in other ways.

SARA users got more TWC services like Caller ID on TV but had a weaker IPG. Passport users had a more advanced IPG but got screwed on TWC features due to the lack of software upgrade investment.

So Navigator is attempting to address that by giving SARA users the IPG features they were missing and Passport users the TWC features they were missing.

Except Passport users get a step back in IPG functionality. In my case I couldn't care less about StartOver etc. I would rather have the guide functions and design back that Nav does not have.

Well, we have fully functional SDV here. My gripe was TWC announced Fox News, Fox Business, Fx, and Speed in HD over a month ago and nothing yet. My point about going all digital was because our analog channels are CRAP. Snowy/Grainy and some are so bad they are unwatchable. The huge benefit is that going all digital would free up a massive amount of bandwidth because our market has a 1Ghz plant while at the same time providing better PQ. Bresnan who is going all digital was even giving customers a one time CREDIT of $20 because of the switch and providing the first $1 converter free. Seems like a no brainier to me. I'd gladly pay $1 an outlet for digital with the standard line up.

Hey Ben,

Could you give us the URL link to your TWC division? I'd like to compare it to other divisions to see why your New York area seems SOOOOO far behind the times. Maybe some of the other users can look into this as well. It's really shocking that you guys don't have Navigator, more HD content, among other things. Our Wisconsin devision now has about 50 HD channels and they have been adding about 2-3 new ones each month or so. They have added Sprout, and will be adding MLB (both HD/SD) and Chiller in January. It could hit as early as sometime New Years Day:

Our HD line-up for Southeast Wisconsin is:

High Definition

500 Movies on Demand HD

502 HD PPV Events

508 HBO East High Definition

509 Showtime High Definition

510 WPTV HD

511 MGM HD

512 WISN HD

513 Cinemax HD

514 Starz HD

515 Food Network HD

516 MPTV HD

517 ABC Family HD

518 WVTV HD

519 Disney HD

520 Science Channel HD

522 Fox News HD

523 Palladia

524 WCGV HD MyNet

525 Versus HD

526 The Golf Channel HD

527 Big Ten HD

528 ESPN2 High Definition

529 ESPN News HD

530 ESPN-HD

531 Fox Sports HD

533 TNT HD

534 TBS in HD

535 FX HD

536 USA HD

537 HGTV HD

538 Discovery Channel HD

539 History in HD

540 TLC HD

541 Discovery HD Theater

542 A&E High Definition

543 Animal Planet HD

544 CNN HD

546 Hallmark Movie Channel HD

549 National Geographic HD

562 Sci Fi HD

565 Lifetime Movie Network HD

570 Travel Channel HD

580 SPEED HD

1102 HD Showcase On Demand

1126 Big Ten Network HD On Demand

1810 Adult On Demand - HD


HD Package (Optional)

511 MGM HD

532 Universal HD

547 HD Net

548 HDNET Movies

Jack

P.S (The site also lists those new channels that can't be accessed with a Cable Card and other channels that they are working on getting. (Info taken from TWC-SE Wisconsin site, my comments added are in italics.)

Weather HD, Bravo HD, CNBC HD, Planet Green HD, ESPNU HD, (coming soon) MLB Network, (Jan 1) MLB Network HD, (in Jan.) Sprout, (Have now) Chiller, ( in Jan.) Familia, Inspiration Life, Gospel Music, Nick Too, Ovation. (in negotiations)

That's because anyone on TWC was basically in a lose/lose situation. Passport may have been slicker than SARA, but TWC kept Passport crippled in other ways.

SARA users got more TWC services like Caller ID on TV but had a weaker IPG. Passport users had a more advanced IPG but got screwed on TWC features due to the lack of software upgrade investment.

So Navigator is attempting to address that by giving SARA users the IPG features they were missing and Passport users the TWC features they were missing.

Except Passport users get a step back in IPG functionality. In my case I couldn't care less about StartOver etc. I would rather have the guide functions and design back that Nav does not have.

Another important factor is that the Passport Guide Data was originated by software developers who had that IPG out for 10 YEARS (at least.) I remember this because the copyright date when the Passport screens would load was something like 1997-2006. Digital Cable came out for us with the Passport Guide in 2000. So you have with this Passport System more than a decade of testing, adding features and implementation.

TWC was forced to either pay rental fees to get SDV/future updates for Passport or use a NEW and very inexperienced programing engineer team to create an in-house guide from the ground up. Their roots were not vested in software development but providing cable service and such things as line maintenance checks and CSR's trained to read from a script. Remember, TWC either had to pay for the updates or force relatively untrained people to create their own IPG. Basically TWC was not made up of qualified software developers and programing people which lead to at least a year of Navigator disasters. Now things are tons better. But the problem is you can't compare an IPG with a design team of 10 years behind them in Passport development to untrained engineers who had to learn all these codes, configurations, different make/model box behaviors in 2 years time.

Passport had a 10 year foundation with people who knew what they were doing. And I am pretty sure that the Passport IPG had problems for the first 1-2 years. Navigator had two years to build its foundation with people who had to learn what to do. So, taking that into consideration, I think Navigator is finally up to standards that are getting close to Passport. I am not defending TWC, but I think it's hard to expect a company to do in 2 years time, needing training to do what another highly trained company could do 10 years.

Jack

Basically TWC was not made up of qualified software developers and programing people which lead to at least a year of Navigator disasters.TWC assimilated a small company in Colorado which was working on the product. I have no idea what state of development the IPG was in when they bought the company. I recall that the company was in a suburb whose cable provider was not TWC.

That's because anyone on TWC was basically in a lose/lose situation. Passport may have been slicker than SARA, but TWC kept Passport crippled in other ways.

SARA users got more TWC services like Caller ID on TV but had a weaker IPG. Passport users had a more advanced IPG but got screwed on TWC features due to the lack of software upgrade investment.

So Navigator is attempting to address that by giving SARA users the IPG features they were missing and Passport users the TWC features they were missing.

Except Passport users get a step back in IPG functionality. In my case I couldn't care less about StartOver etc. I would rather have the guide functions and design back that Nav does not have.

Exactly,If they would add keyword search and manual recording we would all be on same playimg field.You hit the nail on the head.

Jack, twcny.com (http://www.timewarnercable.com/CentralNY/) covers our division. We have around 50 Hd offerings but are missing key channels. If you go to the east (Albany) or the West (Rochester/Buffalo) you'll see they are also ahead of us with HD content. This is my main issue overall, no consistency. TWC in NYC has a massive amount of HD, but then again that market has serious competition.

hi guys I ask one more time...for those of you who already have Navigator...is there a setting for turning off the hard drive in the DVR when you turn off the box. My Passport does this now..it is in the settings "Power manager".....it is really nice not to have to hear the hard drive whizzing away while I try to sleep in the bedroom....

hi guys I ask one more time...for those of you who already have Navigator...is there a setting for turning off the hard drive in the DVR when you turn off the box. My Passport does this now..it is in the settings "Power manager".....it is really nice not to have to hear the hard drive whizzing away while I try to sleep in the bedroom....

To my knowledge no. There have been reports of the Navigator drive being a bit louder than Passport, although since the change-over, I have found no difference at all. How old is your box? Perhaps the newer models might be quieter?

Jack

I had to swap my TWC Passport box (kept rebooting) for the 8300HDC.
They said Passport boxes will not be available anymore. Bummer.
First thing I noticed is I cannot swap between tuners with the "Pip Swap" button anymore.
Slow motion by hitting the Play button 2x no longer works either.
Does anyone know of a work-around for Pip-Swap?
Passport used to buffer 1 hour on both tuners and I would watch two shows at a time by switching between the tuners and rewinding. Thus never seeing any commercials.
I will miss that and the slow motion.
I also noticed that if I tune to a live show and watch a recorded show for 15 minutes and then returning to the live show, the buffer is cleared.
Preventing you rewinding and skipping the commercials.

To my knowledge no. There have been reports of the Navigator drive being a bit louder than Passport, although since the change-over, I have found no difference at all. How old is your box? Perhaps the newer models might be quieter?

Jack

thanks Jack for replying....I have 2 Passport DVR's that are about 4 years old....Passport allows you to turn off the hard drive manually when shutting off the box after you have recorded something....the drives would not change just the OS so I am curious why there would be a difference in loudness (is that a word?) LOL....now when I turn of the box I hear a little click then silence...I just wanted to know if you could access this feature with Navigator....its in the Settings...more Settings...Power Manager...hard drive power...power off manually....does that exist in Navigator....

thanks Jack for replying....I have 2 Passport DVR's that are about 4 years old....Passport allows you to turn off the hard drive manually when shutting off the box after you have recorded something....the drives would not change just the OS so I am curious why there would be a difference in loudness (is that a word?) LOL....now when I turn of the box I hear a little click then silence...I just wanted to know if you could access this feature with Navigator....its in the Settings...more Settings...Power Manager...hard drive power...power off manually....does that exist in Navigator....
No there is no option in Navigator to power off the hard drive when the DVR is off. I used to use this option when I had passport as my dvr is in the bedroom. With Navigator when the DVR is in the off setting the hard drive keeps going on & off periodically.

I had to swap my TWC Passport box (kept rebooting) for the 8300HDC.
They said Passport boxes will not be available anymore. Bummer.
First thing I noticed is I cannot swap between tuners with the "Pip Swap" button anymore.
Slow motion by hitting the Play button 2x no longer works either.
Does anyone know of a work-around for Pip-Swap?
Passport used to buffer 1 hour on both tuners and I would watch two shows at a time by switching between the tuners and rewinding. Thus never seeing any commercials.
I will miss that and the slow motion.
I also noticed that if I tune to a live show and watch a recorded show for 15 minutes and then returning to the live show, the buffer is cleared.
Preventing you rewinding and skipping the commercials.

the only work around is to have the pip only. i too miss being able to switch no matter what.

slow should work with hitting play just once.

oh another thing i miss is the device no longet buffering the other channel.

No there is no option in Navigator to power off the hard drive when the DVR is off. I used to use this option when I had passport as my dvr is in the bedroom. With Navigator when the DVR is in the off setting the hard drive keeps going on & off periodically.

The much hated sleep mode does indeed turn off the HDD and the buffer.

Pardon my french, but how the heck do you create scout / schedule recordings by keywords on the 8300HDC? This thing is aweful, I want my 8300HD back.

Pardon my french, but how the heck do you create scout / schedule recordings by keywords on the 8300HDC? This thing is aweful, I want my 8300HD back.

Keyword search as of this time is not available on Navigator.Will it be in the future?Only TWC knows.Manual recording is missing also.

hi guys I ask one more time...for those of you who already have Navigator...is there a setting for turning off the hard drive in the DVR when you turn off the box. My Passport does this now..it is in the settings "Power manager".....it is really nice not to have to hear the hard drive whizzing away while I try to sleep in the bedroom....

This is a good example of the fact that even with the same software, different features may or may not be implemented. I would kill to have such a feature (it does not exist in any way, shape or form here)... we have to set both tuners to non buffered channels to stop the ticking of the drive. And I bet ya we both have the same version of Passport!

Manual recording is missing also.

What is your definition of "manual recording"? I can hit the record button when a show is on and the unit will start recording. When the show is over, it stops recording, or I can hit the record button again and it will ask me if I want to stop recording during the show.

I have Navigator and the only "bug" that still bothers me is that I use the video processor in my pre/pro and I want Navigator to pass the incoming signal directly. Therefore I select all the formats for output with 4:3 material having sidebars. When in this mode it thinks it needs to stretch 480i programs to the 16x9 format without sidebars even though I tell it not to do this in the setup.

The TWC service person I had in to deal with signal issues (BTW he did a very good job) told me I need to select 720p or 1080i in the unit to prevent it from doing this.

I told him that they should have an "auto" option for those who want it to do this, otherwise it should just stay in either the stretch mode or the sidebar mode for 4:3 material based on the users preference.

Mike

What is your definition of "manual recording"? "Manual Recording" is a feature which allows you to set up a recording by arbitrary channel, date, time and duration, regardless of guide data, like programming a VCR. It's not something most people need to do often, but when I want to do it, I really want to do it and would be pissed if my DVR didn't give me a way to do it. Passport can do it, TiVo can do it--I'm not sure about SARA.

An example: ESPN2 has allocated an extremely conservative 2 hours to cover a live five set men's tennis match, which probably won't complete in less than 3.5 hours and has taken nearly 6 hours. I know that they'll stick with it until the end (they usually precede such things with hours of easily preemptable programming). I want to record five hours, but the option for extending the recording time allows up to an extra 1.5 hours and no more.

Another example: you know that the normal programming in a time slot has been preempted (let's say for a playoff in a major golf tournament whose final round ended in a tie). You want to record what's going to be on, but the guide data hasn't been updated.

"Manual Recording" is a feature which allows you to set up a recording by arbitrary channel, date, time and duration, regardless of guide data, like programming a VCR. It's not something most people need to do often, but when I want to do it, I really want to do it and would be pissed if my DVR didn't give me a way to do it. Passport can do it, TiVo can do it--I'm not sure about SARA.

An example: ESPN2 has allocated an extremely conservative 2 hours to cover a live five set men's tennis match, which probably won't complete in less than 3.5 hours and has taken nearly 6 hours. I know that they'll stick with it until the end (they usually precede such things with hours of easily preemptable programming). I want to record five hours, but the option for extending the recording time allows up to an extra 1.5 hours and no more.

Another example: you know that the normal programming in a time slot has been preempted (let's say for a playoff in a major golf tournament whose final round ended in a tie). You want to record what's going to be on, but the guide data hasn't been updated.

I guess I never knew that Passport had this option.....on the other hand, I get around this by just setting up the unit to record the shows the guide has listed for the additional hours. That is what I did for the US Open Golf when the playoff was on Monday and the guide was not updated - I just recorded the shows that represented the time frame I wanted. It is a little bit of a hassle, but it does allow me to watch a long show in segments and delete those I have watched to save disk space.

The manual option would be nice though.

This is a good example of the fact that even with the same software, different features may or may not be implemented. I would kill to have such a feature (it does not exist in any way, shape or form here)... we have to set both tuners to non buffered channels to stop the ticking of the drive. And I bet ya we both have the same version of Passport!

In Passport Echo, the option to turn off the hard disk automatically is under some power management option in the advanced settings menu.

ODN Navigator does not turn off the disk at all and leaves it running all the time on the Scientific Atlanta 8300HDC and 8240HDC. I could not find a way for software to power down the hard disk directly in the OCAP/tru2way platform DVR extension specification (http://www.cablelabs.com/specifications/OC-SP-OCAP-DVR-I04-071220.pdf). If I did not miss anything, the only way the hard drive can be powered down is for the OCAP software to be told to go to low-power mode, and then the OCAP middleware must power down the hard drive for the low power mode. The OCAP middleware must also automatically power up the hard drive in time for scheduled recordings to start. If the low power mode in the OCAP middleware does not include powering down the hard drive, it stays powered on, and there is nothing that the OCAP application running on top of it can do about the situation. I cannot tell if the AXIOM OCAP middleware or ODN is at fault for this.

I do not remember if MDN is capable of powering down the hard disk.

I guess I never knew that Passport had this option.In Passport Echo, if while watching live TV you press the REC button, a pop-up menu will appear with options for "Record This Program", "Record This Series" and "Set Up Manual Recording"; if you choose "Set Up Manual Recording" it brings up another pop-up dialog with which to specify the recording, with the current channel and date chosen as default (I can't remember what the default start and end times would be). You can flip through the fields in that dialog, selecting the desired channel, date, start time and end time for your recording. (If you press REC while viewing a recording, it brings up the Set Up Manual Recording dialog immediately).

There are a couple of problems with the work-around of recording the individual programs in the target period. For one, maybe the final half hour of what you want is at the beginning of a three hour program. For another, you'll generally miss a small portion of time between the beginning of the last program and the start of the next. This probably won't matter for a sporting event, since, if anything really significant happens, they'll replay it, but if it's a scripted fictional thing there's no such luck.

"Manual Recording" is a feature which allows you to set up a recording by arbitrary channel, date, time and duration, regardless of guide data, like programming a VCR. It's not something most people need to do often, but when I want to do it, I really want to do it and would be pissed if my DVR didn't give me a way to do it. Passport can do it, TiVo can do it--I'm not sure about SARA.

An example: ESPN2 has allocated an extremely conservative 2 hours to cover a live five set men's tennis match, which probably won't complete in less than 3.5 hours and has taken nearly 6 hours. I know that they'll stick with it until the end (they usually precede such things with hours of easily preemptable programming). I want to record five hours, but the option for extending the recording time allows up to an extra 1.5 hours and no more.

Another example: you know that the normal programming in a time slot has been preempted (let's say for a playoff in a major golf tournament whose final round ended in a tie). You want to record what's going to be on, but the guide data hasn't been updated.

Sara allows manual recording as well.Sara,Passport.Replay.Tivo all have manual recording.Only TWC in their great wisdom left it off Navigator.It's the only guide I know that does not have it.I love Espn's inside the NFL and record it at 4 every day.On Mondays it comes on at 3:30.I use a manual recording of every monday at 3:30 to get it.With Navigator I would have to set the earlier showing every Monday.Quite unaceptable.

We can nick pick all day on the small features of Passport vs Navigator.However until Navigator has a keyword search feature and good manual recording feature (in my opinion) it will never be as good as Passport.It's years ahead of Sara but still couple years behind Passport.

Just as an FYI

I spoke to a rep from the local TW office today (Raleigh/Durham Market). They said that they are getting new DVR boxes sometime in 1H 2009. They didn't know what models but it's probably either the new Samsungs or the 85x/86x HDC boxes from Cisco.

These boxes should hopefully run Navigator at a usable speed (as opposed to the glacially slow 8300HDC).

Just as an FYI

I spoke to a rep from the local TW office today (Raleigh/Durham Market). They said that they are getting new DVR boxes sometime in 1H 2009. They didn't know what models but it's probably either the new Samsungs or the 85x/86x HDC boxes from Cisco.

These boxes should hopefully run Navigator at a usable speed (as opposed to the glacially slow 8300HDC).Hmm...my 8300HDC is actually quite responsive. I can't find any function I'd call "glacially slow" other than perhaps the boot process.

Hmm...my 8300HDC is actually quite responsive. I can't find any function I'd call "glacially slow" other than perhaps the boot process.

Navigating the guide is extremely slow on ODN (HDC boxes). I have MDN on an 8300HD and the guide is blazing fast compared to my parents who have an 8300HDC.

Hmm...my 8300HDC is actually quite responsive. I can't find any function I'd call "glacially slow" other than perhaps the boot process.

Several are *very* slow for me: invoking the Recorded List; invoking the Find Shows screen; cancelling a recording from Scheduled list. Guide is fast, though, both to invoke and to get around. Some of it may be related to the external drive being hooked up and having a bunch of stuff recorded.

Navigating the guide is extremely slow on ODN (HDC boxes). I have MDN on an 8300HD and the guide is blazing fast compared to my parents who have an 8300HDC.I really don't mean to be argumentative, but on my 8300HDC, there is absolutely no slowness when navigating the guide. Both horizontal and vertical scrolling and paging are almost instantaneous. Maybe your parents have a bad box?

phousley, I think that your "good" box is probably the exdeption to the rule (or that you perceive time differently than the rest of us :)). I've used ODN on a few different boxes and they've all been painfully slow. Hit-the-guide-button-go-make-yourself-a-snack-come-back-and-maybe-the-guide-will-have-appeared slow. Anyone else out there with a fast version of ODN on an 8300HDC?

phousley, I think that your "good" box is probably the exdeption to the rule (or that you perceive time differently than the rest of us :)). I've used ODN on a few different boxes and they've all been painfully slow. Hit-the-guide-button-go-make-yourself-a-snack-come-back-and-maybe-the-guide-will-have-appeared slow. Anyone else out there with a fast version of ODN on an 8300HDC?

I agree. In addition to my parents, I have 2 other friends with 8300HDC's and they are all just as slow as my parents.

There is slow, then there is HDC slow... Compared to Passport, HDC's interface is very slow, by slow we mean the updates not responsiveness. It responds but it doesn't update as fast. For example the info box on guide (upper left corner where you see movie details/cast, etc.) on Passport I could fly through movies by just continiously hitting right arrow and only by looking at top right corner (movie name, star rating, etc.) on ODN/HDC there is no way you can do this, you would have to hit right for next show then wait for it to update that portion.


--------------

Just got hit with an HDC Sunday, and boy, this thing is laggy.
I started a thread earlier: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15410675&posted=1#post15410675, but just found this one (it never showed this topic when I was starting mine), anyway I am very disappointed with this box.

Lack of stars in guide, what where they thinking when they skipped on Navigator and went with this cartoonish crap? It is incredibly slow in response to remote commands. I have been using 8300HD for 4 years, and I loved it, I even had to sacrifice my recorded shows because HDD started giving me errors :( but I never expected this. My first impression was "cool, new box, new remote!" at the store, but when I got home, it was disappointing.


No stars in guide
You cannot browse the guide as fast as you could with older firmware (checking movies quickly one after another, this thing does not refresh the top left corner (info box) unless I stop for a second)
Swap does not work to swap tuners
You cannot record anything if you "Start Over", hey at least let me record it from the point when I tuned into it.
Some HD channels do not show up at all
There is an odd pause/freeze frame when it first tunes into a channel
List is very slow "Loading Data..." ??? Come on.
Takes long time when adding/deleting/modifying any recording or schedule, it shows that huge screen with /!\ exclamation mark "Attention" burning yellow!!!
Why did they have to move Exit to the top? I always used it to clear the OSD when I am ffwd'ing.
Is the distance when you hit PLAY from FFWD is longer? (when it resumes, before it used to go back 30 seconds or so after hitting play, but now it feels longer)
Access Menu? Seems useful but they shifted stuff around. And they could have added SAP and CC buttons on the remote.
NO Keyword Search or Recording Scout by Keyword.




And what do you get?
+Slightly better picture quality (colors are more vivid, and maybe less pixelization/mpeg compression artifacts)
+Start Over feature
+USB outputs that do not work
+Black Bars (finally)

The only thing that I have heard that is better on the C-boxes (OCAP) compared to non-C boxes (MDN) is that closed captioning is more reliable on the OCAP models. I am not saying that it will always work, but it works better than with MDN. The C-boxes in my Milwaukee area have always been slower than the non-C boxes.

Maybe this issue with speed/CC working is not only contingent on the type of box you have, but also the version model of firmware. Who knows? There could be 50 different models of SA-8000's, 30 models of SA-8300's, 20 models of SA 2000, and so on. This would really explain why the behavior on the boxes may not only vary from location to location, but also from model to model.

Jack

There is slow, then there is HDC slow... Compared to Passport, HDC's interface is very slow, by slow we mean the updates not responsiveness. It responds but it doesn't update as fast. For example the info box on guide (upper left corner where you see movie details/cast, etc.) on Passport I could fly through movies by just continiously hitting right arrow and only by looking at top right corner (movie name, star rating, etc.) on ODN/HDC there is no way you can do this, you would have to hit right for next show then wait for it to update that portion.


--------------

Just got hit with an HDC Sunday, and boy, this thing is laggy.
I started a thread earlier: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15410675&posted=1#post15410675, but just found this one (it never showed this topic when I was starting mine), anyway I am very disappointed with this box.

Lack of stars in guide, what where they thinking when they skipped on Navigator and went with this cartoonish crap? It is incredibly slow in response to remote commands. I have been using 8300HD for 4 years, and I loved it, I even had to sacrifice my recorded shows because HDD started giving me errors :( but I never expected this. My first impression was "cool, new box, new remote!" at the store, but when I got home, it was disappointing.


No stars in guide
You cannot browse the guide as fast as you could with older firmware (checking movies quickly one after another, this thing does not refresh the top left corner (info box) unless I stop for a second)
Swap does not work to swap tuners
You cannot record anything if you "Start Over", hey at least let me record it from the point when I tuned into it.
Some HD channels do not show up at all
There is an odd pause/freeze frame when it first tunes into a channel
List is very slow "Loading Data..." ??? Come on.
Takes long time when adding/deleting/modifying any recording or schedule, it shows that huge screen with /!\ exclamation mark "Attention" burning yellow!!!
Why did they have to move Exit to the top? I always used it to clear the OSD when I am ffwd'ing.
Is the distance when you hit PLAY from FFWD is longer? (when it resumes, before it used to go back 30 seconds or so after hitting play, but now it feels longer)
Access Menu? Seems useful but they shifted stuff around. And they could have added SAP and CC buttons on the remote.
NO Keyword Search or Recording Scout by Keyword.




And what do you get?
+Slightly better picture quality (colors are more vivid, and maybe less pixelization/mpeg compression artifacts)
+Start Over feature
+USB outputs that do not work
+Black Bars (finally)

Our version of ODN v3.1.0_11 has the stars in the guide but not all movies have it though.

Maybe this issue with speed/CC working is not only contingent on the type of box you have, but also the version model of firmware. Who knows? There could be 50 different models of SA-8000's, 30 models of SA-8300's, 20 models of SA 2000, and so on.There are certainly revisions made to the hardware during the lifetime of any product and it's possible that one of these made ODN faster (or slower). Whatever. I just know that it's never been fast on any of a few different boxes that I've seen it running on.

Just as an FYI

I spoke to a rep from the local TW office today (Raleigh/Durham Market). They said that they are getting new DVR boxes sometime in 1H 2009. They didn't know what models but it's probably either the new Samsungs or the 85x/86x HDC boxes from Cisco.

These boxes should hopefully run Navigator at a usable speed (as opposed to the glacially slow 8300HDC).

It's probably the SMT-H3090. Samsung has a page for it and it mentions TWC. Our division is probably testing them. Your division must be testing them. NYC will probably be the first to get them. NYC was the first market to get ODN but will be the last for MDN.

I hope NYC gets them soon.

It's probably the SMT-H3090. Samsung has a page for it and it mentions TWC. Our division is probably testing them. Your division must be testing them. NYC will probably be the first to get them. NYC was the first market to get ODN but will be the last for MDN.

I don't care which unit they deploy, as long as the built-in drive is bigger (capacity wise) than the ones we have now.

I know the Samsung unit has an option for a 320 gigabyte drive.

I like the Samsung since it looks better. A 320 GB HDD should be the minimum for a cable HD-DVR. 500 GB would be better.

I don't care which unit they deploy, as long as the built-in drive is bigger (capacity wise) than the ones we have now.

I know the Samsung unit has an option for a 320 gigabyte drive.

The Cisco 864x/865xHDC have the option for a 320 GB HDD. The Cisco 8540HDC also can be ordered with a 320 GB HDD. The 8552/8642/8652HDC have MoCA and the MoCA tuner runs at 1.0 to 1.5 GHZ. MoCA shouldn't affect the cable plant bandwidth since it's at a higher frequency than CATV. It might require MoCA complaint cable splitters.

I like the Samsung since it looks better. A 320 GB HDD should be the minimum for a cable HD-DVR. 500 GB would be better.

I agree fully, but as long as TWC doesn't kill the eSATA then it's not that big of an issue to me. DirecTV allows for eSATA but kills the internal drive which is the stupidest thing I've ever seen for a DVR! At least in it's current state TWC allows the eSATA drive to "add on" to the internal drive. I'm really in a rush for TWC to rollout new stuff here. I personally would like any newer up to date cable box and I'd like to give Navigator a run too. If they do that and leave the HD line up as is, I might be willing to give them a tad longer before switching. That is assuming Navigator deployment isn't a complete disaster!

I agree fully, but as long as TWC doesn't kill the eSATA then it's not that big of an issue to me. DirecTV allows for eSATA but kills the internal drive which is the stupidest thing I've ever seen for a DVR! At least in it's current state TWC allows the eSATA drive to "add on" to the internal drive. I'm really in a rush for TWC to rollout new stuff here. I personally would like any newer up to date cable box and I'd like to give Navigator a run too. If they do that and leave the HD line up as is, I might be willing to give them a tad longer before switching. That is assuming Navigator deployment isn't a complete disaster!

Ben,

About three months ago I checked a board up in Northern Wisconsin and they were still Passport up there! Southern areas are all Navigator. The SARA subs are the last to be changed over. I don't think they will have major problems with the deployment. A tech said they can't afford to. Navigator has gotten tons better compared to two years ago.

I wonder why the SARA subs are last? So Ben, if you exchange your box, would you get another SARA unit? It would be an HDC with SARA, right?

What would you say are the three biggest flaws with SARA right now?

Jack

Ben,

About three months ago I checked a board up in Northern Wisconsin and they were still Passport up there! Southern areas are all Navigator. The SARA subs are the last to be changed over. I don't think they will have major problems with the deployment. A tech said they can't afford to. Navigator has gotten tons better compared to two years ago.

I wonder why the SARA subs are last? So Ben, if you exchange your box, would you get another SARA unit? It would be an HDC with SARA, right?

What would you say are the three biggest flaws with SARA right now?

Jack

In my opinion sara has only two major flaws.One it is butt ugly and needs a new skin,second and most important it has a almost non existant search engine.Give me keybord search with keyword search in it and a new skin and I would be happy with sara.The third flaw that it would keep only one bookmark has cured in last software update.

NYC is also a Passport area but they are also using ODN. They deploy ODN on new boxes and keep Passport on the old ones. NYC is the last to go MDN since they can't afford the problems caused by MDN. SARA areas get HDC's with SARA but they might have HD boxes. I could see NYC and northern Wisconsin get Navigator this year or maybe in 2010. They could start deploying new Samsung boxes with ODN if the Management at Stamford says so. SARA is also probably next to get Navigator. Triad was going to get it but that date was postponed.

Does anyone have screenshots of what is ODN, what is Explorer, What is Passport, etc?
I know what Cablevision uses is much worse than what I have on my new HDC box. I know what passport is but I am confused between Sara, ODN and Explorer.

Here in Greensboro NC TWC said we were to get Navigator Oct.1.However no one has received it.Now they are saying Jan.13 but not holding my breath on that date.They give out dates for deployment then ignore them.So who knows.

Here in Greensboro NC TWC said we were to get Navigator Oct.1.However no one has received it.Now they are saying Jan.13 but not holding my breath on that date.They give out dates for deployment then ignore them.So who knows.

PS on Sara 1.89.21 here

Does anyone have screenshots of what is ODN, what is Explorer, What is Passport, etc?
I know what Cablevision uses is much worse than what I have on my new HDC box. I know what passport is but I am confused between Sara, ODN and Explorer.There are some images of a recent version of TWC's Digital Navigator back in this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15115064#post15115064) post. You can see an image of the Passport Echo guide here (http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/508/passport_guide.JPG) and one of the SARA guide here (http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/508/sara_guide.JPG) (note that the image of SARA's IPG is from a manual and is mocked up with Acrobat primitives--in real life, both the fonts and the line art are crude, jagged and wholely unprofessional). Passport Echo is what many of us had prior to Navigator. "Explorer" is part of a hardware product name (i.e., Cisco Explorer 8300HDC); the Explorer STBs can run any of these guides..

Thank you very much Micheal. The navigator version has beveled looking time table which I don't have, so it looks like there are other versions out there, but still when I saw that Passport screenshot, I felt pretty weird, that thing worked incredible, and reminded me how good it was.

Got it, SARA, Digital Navigator, and lovely Passport. I think SARA is what Cablevision customers get (the one that doesn't even have keyboard search - only first letter!)

Ben,

What would you say are the three biggest flaws with SARA right now?

Jack

1) Totally worthless Search Feature

2) Horribly outdated interface (GUI)

3) No customization whatsoever. Again, I can't specify HD only or remove duplicate channels. I'm looking at DirecTV almost solely for this feature because everyone else in my house constantly watches or records off of the first channel they hit in the guide. 99% of the time it's SD.

Hardware wise - TW needs larger hard drives, but as long as they don't disable eSATA I can overlook that. We need something with an HD-capable guide as in always 16x9 with sharp text.

The channel layout and mapping that sucks here is mainly TW's doing. The channels assignments are all over the place.

Why can't they just allow people to edit channel line up or add/remove channels. It must be fairly simple now that everything is software based. Sure we can add/remove one by one, but most importantly they need to allow that on the guide, so we can actually skip the channels we don't have right to see.. But I guess that's their selling point, to show you what you are missing.

On another one, another very cool feature would be to browse GUIDE by shows, instead of 30 minute intervals. On guide when you hit left/right, it goes by 30 minutes, if there was an option to move show by show that would be very handy. Sure you can do that while watching the channel and hitting directions, but on Navigator, it is so silly, you cannot record once you see something you like, unless you clear it, go back to guide, and then find it again. What were they thinking? I think on Passport you could record direct from that little view.

Our version of ODN v3.1.0_11 has the stars in the guide but not all movies have it though.

Just noticed that I have it as well, but not on the main view, unless you hit INFO on the guide screen, you don't see stars. Some stars are also wrong. You cannot easily see them on guide as we used to on Passport.

Why can't they just allow people to edit channel line up or add/remove channels. It must be fairly simple now that everything is software based. Sure we can add/remove one by one, but most importantly they need to allow that on the guide, so we can actually skip the channels we don't have right to see.. But I guess that's their selling point, to show you what you are missing.

On another one, another very cool feature would be to browse GUIDE by shows, instead of 30 minute intervals. On guide when you hit left/right, it goes by 30 minutes, if there was an option to move show by show that would be very handy. Sure you can do that while watching the channel and hitting directions, but on Navigator, it is so silly, you cannot record once you see something you like, unless you clear it, go back to guide, and then find it again. What were they thinking? I think on Passport you could record direct from that little view.



Just noticed that I have it as well, but not on the main view, unless you hit INFO on the guide screen, you don't see stars. Some stars are also wrong. You cannot easily see them on guide as we used to on Passport.

I think that in ODN 2.4.10_11 (which I currently use), when I press left or right, it goes by shows or by 30 minute intervals, whichever is shorter.

3) No customization whatsoever. Again, I can't specify HD only or remove duplicate channels. I'm looking at DirecTV almost solely for this feature because everyone else in my house constantly watches or records off of the first channel they hit in the guide. 99% of the time it's SD.

Just turn on the parental controls, lock out all the SD equivalents for the HD channels you get, and don't tell anyone in the house what the password is, thereby forcing them to tune the HD channel. :D

Why can't they just allow people to edit channel line up or add/remove channels. It must be fairly simple now that everything is software based. Sure we can add/remove one by one, but most importantly they need to allow that on the guide, so we can actually skip the channels we don't have right to see.. But I guess that's their selling point, to show you what you are missing.

On another one, another very cool feature would be to browse GUIDE by shows, instead of 30 minute intervals. On guide when you hit left/right, it goes by 30 minutes, if there was an option to move show by show that would be very handy. Sure you can do that while watching the channel and hitting directions, but on Navigator, it is so silly, you cannot record once you see something you like, unless you clear it, go back to guide, and then find it again. What were they thinking? I think on Passport you could record direct from that little view.



Just noticed that I have it as well, but not on the main view, unless you hit INFO on the guide screen, you don't see stars. Some stars are also wrong. You cannot easily see them on guide as we used to on Passport.

3.1.0_11 does show them in the main window. Not all movies have them though.

Just turn on the parental controls, lock out all the SD equivalents for the HD channels you get, and don't tell anyone in the house what the password is, thereby forcing them to tune the HD channel. :D

I thought about doing that, but my point is the guide should allow for me to control what I want in it. Sat guides have been able to do this from the get go. It seem ridiculous that the guide lacks such basic control and functions. I'd be content with a "Show HD if Available" option with an "All Sub" option like Dish has. I mean, I like the GUI on Navigator when I compare it to SARA, but I am hoping for more functionality.

3.1.0_11 does show them in the main window. Not all movies have them though.

I could not check my version, I press hold combinations of EXIT and VOL +, or INFO + SELECT, but nothing happens. How do I go into diagnostics or the screen where it shows the version?

Hold select until some light comes up. Then you press down on the directional keys until it shows dIAG and the version number is in the first page. I believe NYC uses 2.4.10_11. 3.1.0_11 is the latest version of ODN.

Hold down LAST until the version number appears. It's faster. Works on MDN.

Hold down LAST until the version number appears. It's faster. Works on MDN.Does NOT work on the latest version of ODN here in San Diego--I tried it recently.

Does NOT work on the latest version of ODN here in San Diego--I tried it recently.

It does work on MDN v2.4.4-14.

Does NOT work on the latest version of ODN here in San Diego--I tried it recently.

You should try the same thing with other buttons some time. Maybe they moved the function to another key.

Hold select until some light comes up. Then you press down on the directional keys until it shows dIAG and the version number is in the first page. I believe NYC uses 2.4.10_11. 3.1.0_11 is the latest version of ODN.



That worked, i got blinking mail light and pressing down tuned into diAg, and it shows as overlay on top of the current channel.
You are also right on the version.

Hub ID: 5
BootStrapper Version: 3.0.0_15 2008/06/13
ODN Version: 2.4.10_11 2008/06/05
Tune Failure Count: 17

Profile Version: 2544
Service Table Version: 476

It does work on MDN v2.4.4-14.Maybe it never worked with ODN. Has anyone else gotten it (holding the LAST button down to get the ODN version displayed) to work with any version of ODN?

Does Navigator still have the feature that when there is a 3 show conflict and one show has a later showing such as Monk or Burn Notice it will auto schedule the later showing instead of just not recording it?This seems like a really good feature.

Does Navigator still have the feature that when there is a 3 show conflict and one show has a later showing such as Monk or Burn Notice it will auto schedule the later showing instead of just not recording it?This seems like a really good feature.

I would seriously doubt it.. Especially on a box that does not even allow you to specify if series recording should be for that channel only or in ANY channel.. I assume it just records the series on that channel only, which is pretty bumming!

Does Navigator still have the feature that when there is a 3 show conflict and one show has a later showing such as Monk or Burn Notice it will auto schedule the later showing instead of just not recording it?This seems like a really good feature.

yes, but the show that has a later time needs to be in the proper place in the series list.

i forget if its supposed to be below or above the other two shows.

yes, but the show that has a later time needs to be in the proper place in the series list.

i forget if its supposed to be below or above the other two shows.

Anyone have the answer to this?

Anyone have the answer to this?

Put a show that has multiple showings after the ones that one have one. It works for me all the time.

Jim

Put a show that has multiple showings after the ones that one have one. It works for me all the time.

Jim

Thanks for the answer.When you got switched to Navigator did you have Sara or Passport.If you are in Brighthouse and had sara could you compare Sara to Navigator?

Aww man, we can't find the other showings of the movie I am watching by hitting Guide and then hit Search, which automatically showed the movie I am watching and all the other show times. I used to use that function a lot, because I used to tune into a channel and find out the movie is halfway through, so I used to just hit guide, then browse by title, and just find the next showing and record it. It is impossible to that in Explorer. We would have to actually go and type the title.

The more I use Explorer, the more omissions I discover. :(

The more I use Explorer, the more omissions I discover. :(It's "Navigator" :).

Originally Posted by moraseski
Put a show that has multiple showings after the ones that one have one. It works for me all the time.

Jim

Thanks for the answer.When you got switched to Navigator did you have Sara or Passport.If you are in Brighthouse and had sara could you compare Sara to Navigator?

We are Brighthouse and converted from Passport to Navigator. Brighthouse waited for a long time before upgrading and it was relatively painless. The guide info and search functions need some work. The resolution of conflicts is much better.

Jim

It's "Navigator" :).

Darn it! And you just had explained in the other post. :o You can understand my frustration. :cool:

Well I guess Navigator is perfect now.No one seems to have any problems to post about or questions to have answer to.Must be great in TWC land.

Well I guess Navigator is perfect now.No one seems to have any problems to post about or questions to have answer to.Must be great in TWC land.

I don't think they are in Kansas anymore.. Until they wake up & realize.

Well I guess Navigator is perfect now.No one seems to have any problems to post about or questions to have answer to.Must be great in TWC land.

Far from it. You just give up and accept mediocrity.

Well I guess Navigator is perfect now.No one seems to have any problems to post about or questions to have answer to.Must be great in TWC land.

Not really. All that has to be said about Navigator has already been said.

Not really. All that has to be said about Navigator has already been said.

Then shall we mark this thread CLOSED!

Then shall we mark this thread CLOSED!

Nope. Future versions of Navigator will keep coming out, and then we will have more to say. Maybe Navigator will be like Passport Echo and improve to greatness in a few years. Maybe Time Warner Cable might replace it if it keeps falling behind. In that case, we might be discussing what will Navigator be replaced with.

This thread should live at least long enough to discuss the SARA to Navigator Transition. I, for one, am anxiously awaiting Navigator and really wish Time Warner would give us some solid info about when we will actually see it to replace SARA.

I grow weary of the lacking information coming from TWC and the completely clueless reps. It becomes more and more obvious everyday that they don't care if they have me as a customer. I can only wait so long for them to improve the service I receive.

To this point:

They announced we were getting Navigator the 1st quarter of last year - didn't happen

They announced an expanded HD line up two months back - didn't happen

These are, in my opinion the two biggest things they need to do to compete and it seems like they just don't care.

This thread should live at least long enough to discuss the SARA to Navigator Transition. I, for one, am anxiously awaiting Navigator and really wish Time Warner would give us some solid info about when we will actually see it to replace SARA.

I grow weary of the lacking information coming from TWC and the completely clueless reps. It becomes more and more obvious everyday that they don't care if they have me as a customer. I can only wait so long for them to improve the service I receive.

To this point:

They announced we were getting Navigator the 1st quarter of last year - didn't happen

They announced an expanded HD line up two months back - didn't happen

These are, in my opinion the two biggest things they need to do to compete and it seems like they just don't care.

Was kidding bout thread being closed.Lot's left to discuss about Navigator.Here in Greensboro we are on Sara.Was told Oct 1 08 was change over date.That came and went.This week I heard Jan.13 was the date.Not holding my breath on that one either.Time Warner seems to care less about customer info.They have clueless and sometimes rude CSR;s.If I ran my business customer service wise as they do i would be out of business in 6 months.Yet they thrive with all their bad customer service.My brother has Comcast and he gets all kinds of info on what they have brewing in his viewing area.All we get are lies and silence.Comcast likes to keep customers excited about upcomeing improvements not in the dark like TWC.

Time Warner gives my the feeling as if they really don't care if I cancel service. They have done absolutely nothing innovative with the cable service whatsoever. They would like to think they have with the things like Start Over and Caller ID on TV, but these are really not big deals. I was really hoping to see a difference in service now that the cable portion has broken away from the conglomerate beast.

I mean, it's really sad when Time Warner is lacking cable and HD channels that TIME WARNER'S parent company own! It just shows more incompetence.

At least, if they get me a version of Navigator to try before my spring deadline, I can make a better determination versus just giving up on them altogether. It's getting harder to give them more time when DirecTV keeps adding features and content I actually want.

Time Warner gives my the feeling as if they really don't care if I cancel service. They have done absolutely nothing innovative with the cable service whatsoever. They would like to think they have with the things like Start Over and Caller ID on TV, but these are really not big deals. I was really hoping to see a difference in service now that the cable portion has broken away from the conglomerate beast.

I mean, it's really sad when Time Warner is lacking cable and HD channels that TIME WARNER'S parent company own! It just shows more incompetence.

At least, if they get me a version of Navigator to try before my spring deadline, I can make a better determination versus just giving up on them altogether. It's getting harder to give them more time when DirecTV keeps adding features and content I actually want.

Amen

In Greensboro NC we are on SARA here.Has anyone wih SARA been changed to NAVIGATOR yet.Someone has to be first.Just wondered who #1 might be.If anyone (and I doubt anyone has)on SARA been switched to NAVIGATOR could you post a review of SARA vs NAVIGATOR.

Time Warner gives my the feeling as if they really don't care if I cancel service.

Gives you the feeling? You are not too far off, I know they don't care if I cancel the service. I called them and told them I have been a customer for 5 years, and I am thinking of moving over to Satellite or FIOS. In fact, if Fios was available here already I would have moved long time ago.. All he said was "we got cheaper packages if you would like to save".

No "We could offer you 1 month free HBO" or "Hey, why don't we throw in a credit for 2 free on demand movies", or not even "let's waive your DVR fee for next month". Anyway, when it comes to equipment, I think of TWC like Verizon.
Verizon has a lot of cool features on their phones, but they never advertise those or create hype. TWC on the other side, they just give people an equipment and software, but nobody other than TWC users know about what is there.. Sure there are commercials with start over and DVR, but they should openly discuss available versions, hard drive sizes, option to add on external hard drive, even offer front inputs as a way to keep personal videos on the DVR, etc..

I just saw the commercial for IO (Optimum Cable) offering downloading videos, etc.. does anyone know what's that about?

I posted this but as this forum gets so much activity, I wanted to add it here.

Our Digital Phone went out yesterday and there was a busy signal from Customer Service all day and into the night! Everyone was out in my area. and there was no way of contacting Customer Service. A big outage, and a DESPICABLE way of doing business. E-mail was the only way that I could contact them. I eventually unplugged the phone modem and reset it to get it working. But I had to be told that from a public forum, my Milwaukee HDTV forum that I frequent. It turns out that many many people also had a big outage. Now why can't those customer service jerks have voice-mail or an automated system to say something like:

"Thank you for calling TWC. We are having unexpected problems with our Digital Phone Service. Please stay on the line for assistance, or you can try to reboot your modem. To do this, unplug the power cord from your phone modem for 20 seconds and than plug it back in, allowing the system to reboot for 2 minutes. If you have a dial tone, phone service should be restored." There was nothing on the website, nothing on the voice-mail. A busy signal for 12 hours. The frigging #2 cable company in the country and people can't get through because of a busy signal. When I (if I) get an e-mail response back, I am going to blast them for their incompetence.

This is TWC-Milwaukee Wisconsin, and they need all the bashing thrown at them for the $hit we went through yesterday. The loss of phone service and an inability to reach them cost customers valuable business and time.

Although this is the first time we have had such an outage like this, these types of things should not be happening.

Jack

As I understand it, they're answerable to your PUCO. I would drop them a line.

Time Warner customer service has dropped in the toilet.

Time Warner customer service has dropped in the toilet.

Did it ever get out of that receptacle in the first place?

They have done absolutely nothing innovative with the cable service whatsoever. They would like to think they have with the things like Start Over and Caller ID on TV, but these are really not big deals.

Those were innovative 3 1/2 years ago when they first got announced (or 7/8 years if you count the Mystro origins of Start Over), but they only do that to appease shareholders to make it look as though they are coming up with amazing breakthroughs.

Unfortunately for everyone who isn't in that one test market, once they've achieved that round of applause they are quite happy to let those services sit around and stagnate as they unenthusiastically roll them out on the backs of tortoises around the country.

This current rate of things coupled with a $5 a month rate hike starting 2/1 really has me watching my options. As I stated, I'm happy with the general product. I'm really disgusted by the lack of information that comes out or mis-information. They announce new HD back in November and nothing yet. On top of that, they have carriage agreements with tons of providers for HD content. Why is it only NYC gets the 100 channel line up? OOOHHH! That's right, competition!

Why is it only NYC gets the 100 channel line up? OOOHHH! That's right, competition!

First, it isn't at 100. Many promised channels are on indefinite hold. Second, most parts of NYC got a load of HD long before Manhattan did (and they got price lock guarantees BEFORE 2 price hikes last year, Manhattan only got that AFTER those 2 hikes in one year). AND it's only 1/2 of Manhattan that got a bunch of new HD.

And in the be careful "what you wish for" category, since three weeks of an expanded lineup, many channels are problematic due to 5-10 second audio dropouts and general video frak-ups. From terribly annoying to impossible to watch.

However, you re spot on about "competition." The main reason Manhattan was treated so shabbily is that for most residents, TWC is the ONLY option. As in OTA doesn't work in such a high density area and most can NOT access any satellite service. A month ago, my"choice" was TWC or DVDs only on my HD set.

I get what you are saying and I should have added that TWC has a ton of carriage agreements to put them on par with DirecTV in actual channel count. My main point was that many divisions are getting high demand channels like Fx, Fox News, USA, Sci-Fi while we get crap like Toon Disney and ABC Family which rarely show any HD anyway! I would still like to see a version of Navigator, but I really don't see that happening any longer here. There has been zero talk of it and when I email even the top people within my division, some don't even know what Navigator is!?!?! So, most likely it will be DirecTV for me come Spring time.

100 more crappy channels? If Fuse and Travel Channel was on Digital Starter Package, I would have moved down a step long time ago. I can't believe Food Network is available on Basic $12 plan!

I get what you are saying and I should have added that TWC has a ton of carriage agreements to put them on par with DirecTV in actual channel count. My main point was that many divisions are getting high demand channels like Fx, Fox News, USA, Sci-Fi while we get crap like Toon Disney and ABC Family which rarely show any HD anyway! I would still like to see a version of Navigator, but I really don't see that happening any longer here. There has been zero talk of it and when I email even the top people within my division, some don't even know what Navigator is!?!?! So, most likely it will be DirecTV for me come Spring time.

Your right on.It's great to have a lot of hd channels but it would be greater if we had some like Fox news.FX,Scifi hd,USA,channels folks actually watch.

Your right on.It's great to have a lot of hd channels but it would be greater if we had some like Fox news.FX,Scifi hd,USA,channels folks actually watch.

TWCNYC has all those channles in HD, I watch House reruns on HD on USAHD all the time.

This thread seem to be veering off course. There is a more appropriate active thread that discussed TWC HD content:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=652328

This thread seem to be veering off course. There is a more appropriate active thread that discussed TWC HD content:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=652328

I agree, thanks for the direction. :)
Let's keep the topic on Navigator.

I get what you are saying and I should have added that TWC has a ton of carriage agreements to put them on par with DirecTV in actual channel count. My main point was that many divisions are getting high demand channels like Fx, Fox News, USA, Sci-Fi while we get crap like Toon Disney and ABC Family which rarely show any HD anyway! I would still like to see a version of Navigator, but I really don't see that happening any longer here. There has been zero talk of it and when I email even the top people within my division, some don't even know what Navigator is!?!?! So, most likely it will be DirecTV for me come Spring time.

i totally agree. why the heck they add HD channels like planet green and bio and hold out on the channels people will actually watch is beyond me. sure some markets are getting the good stuff but they are in the minority. i've been told that my town has the head end capacity to supply everything that is available yet we continually get crappy channels that nobody i know watches. does anyone really watch all 5 espns, MLB's 50 year old B&W games or the golf channel? we even got fox sports carolina that is set up to only air HD feeds, all other times it is off air. guess what, i havent seen any programming scheduled for that channel since we got it . but i guess that adds to the number of HD channels TW can claim to have.

sorry, i posted the above before i saw the reminders about the other thread.

This thread seem to be veering off course. There is a more appropriate active thread that discussed TWC HD content:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=652328

In a little way we are still on course.TWC said one reason for Navigator was to add more hd.Well they have done that just the wrong channels.Sorry this my last rant on here about hd. Had to get it off my chest.Sorry all.

Yea, Navigator and HD kind of go hand in hand. One of my points was wishing Nav would have some sort of "Show HD Only" option and it kind of evolvled.

So, anyone have ANY news about Navigator?

Does anyone know if Navigator supports muti room functionality..I haven't really seen anyone discuss this at all, and in my opinion, it is one of the features they better act on really quick as Dish, Fios, and Uverse all have it.

I know the current boxes can't support it as well, but what about the future Samsung box we're supposed to see pretty soon??

How does Fios' multi room work? Is it via ethernet/coax/wireless? I see that Samsung box has RJ-45, and hopefully with addition of WiFi it can have even more features than Fios or Explorer boxes.

On Navigator.Spoke to TWC today.They said Navigator would be deployed in Greensboro NC on Jan.13.Ok ths is same crew that said Oct.1 was the date and ignored it.If it does guess we will be #1 sara division to switch to Navigator.BUT THATS A BIG IF!I strangely doubt we will see it.But who knows.Somebody in sara sometime will.Will let you all know if it occures.

On Navigator.Spoke to TWC today.They said Navigator would be deployed in Greensboro NC on Jan.13.Ok ths is same crew that said Oct.1 was the date and ignored it.If it does guess we will be #1 sara division to switch to Navigator.BUT THATS A BIG IF!I strangely doubt we will see it.But who knows.Somebody in sara sometime will.Will let you all know if it occures.

Who do you exactly talk to? If I call TWCNYC start asking about why they changed passport to navigator, they would all scratch their heads. I guess I need to ask for someone in technical support who knows about these stuff.

i totally agree. why the heck they add HD channels like planet green and bio and hold out on the channels people will actually watch is beyond me. sure some markets are getting the good stuff but they are in the minority. i've been told that my town has the head end capacity to supply everything that is available yet we continually get crappy channels that nobody i know watches. does anyone really watch all 5 espns, MLB's 50 year old B&W games or the golf channel? we even got fox sports carolina that is set up to only air HD feeds, all other times it is off air. guess what, i havent seen any programming scheduled for that channel since we got it . but i guess that adds to the number of HD channels TW can claim to have.

Let's here it for THE KNITTING CHANNEL IN HD!!! OOPS!!! I better shut up before I give them any more ideas! :p

Jack

On Navigator.Spoke to TWC today.They said Navigator would be deployed in Greensboro NC on Jan.13.Ok ths is same crew that said Oct.1 was the date and ignored it.If it does guess we will be #1 sara division to switch to Navigator.BUT THATS A BIG IF!I strangely doubt we will see it.But who knows.Somebody in sara sometime will.Will let you all know if it occures.

Consider that TWC Raleigh advertised on their site that Navigator would be the first of many exciting new features coming soon.

That was January 2007.

Check my sig for when it actually arrived and you'll know how accurate they are on rollout windows.

So, anyone have ANY news about Navigator?

Last news I saw was that TWC were partnering with an interactive software company to be added to the next version of Navigator. Whatever "next version" means. :rolleyes:

Don't get too excited however, they were also talking about it allowing them to offer new "advanced advertising." Whatever "advanced advertising" means. ;)

I don't think it will be something to look forward to.

edit: Here's a link:
http://cable.tmcnet.com/topics/cable/articles/44189-biap-signs-agreement-with-time-warner-cable-etv.htm

How does Fios' multi room work? Is it via ethernet/coax/wireless? I see that Samsung box has RJ-45, and hopefully with addition of WiFi it can have even more features than Fios or Explorer boxes.

It uses MoCA via an Actiontec router. MoCA is a protocol that effectively allows Ethernet over Coax. It's a nice technology. The Samsung box does indeed support MoCA and TWC is a MoCA partner. MoCA can be used for a multi room DVR and it can also share contents to other devices like a PC, DVD player etc. The Samsung box does support DLNA, and uPnP. That means if you have a DLNA certified Device you can share the DVR contents to that device. It would probably be a streaming interface due to copy protection.

Who do you exactly talk to? If I call TWCNYC start asking about why they changed passport to navigator, they would all scratch their heads. I guess I need to ask for someone in technical support who knows about these stuff.

Was paying my bill in person.Spoke to CSR at desk.She looked in her computer and gave me the Jan.13 date.Knowing them she could have saw a pay per view comeing on on Jan.13 and given me that date.I just take it for what it's worth and do not raise lot of hope.

It uses MoCA via an Actiontec router. MoCA is a protocol that effectively allows Ethernet over Coax. It's a nice technology. The Samsung box does indeed support MoCA and TWC is a MoCA partner. MoCA can be used for a multi room DVR and it can also share contents to other devices like a PC, DVD player etc. The Samsung box does support DLNA, and uPnP. That means if you have a DLNA certified Device you can share the DVR contents to that device. It would probably be a streaming interface due to copy protection.

Very Cool. Welcoming features on PS3, which would enable people to watch stuff that's on their DVR via their PS3 in another room. Thanks for the info on MoCA. I remember using Coax for data 10 years ago, good to hear similar technology is still around.

Very Cool. Welcoming features on PS3, which would enable people to watch stuff that's on their DVR via their PS3 in another room. Thanks for the info on MoCA. I remember using Coax for data 10 years ago, good to hear similar technology is still around.

But don't consider TWC to be bringing that technology to Navigator and your living room any time soon. They loathe the idea of you watching your DVR content on a box that isn't theirs. Especially if it's not another DVR from TWC, because that's money they want to force you to give to them for box rental.

Also consider that TWC is a "big" supporter of Tru2Way devices and we can see how that's working out. A Samsung prototype TV shown two years ago and then squat. OCAP still being a clunky proposition on their own issued boxes even now.

Reading about cool technologies that other cablecos are deploying is just a recipe for being depressed. You should just close your eyes and stick your fingers in your ears when you glimpse something like that. ;)

In a little way we are still on course.TWC said one reason for Navigator was to add more hd.Well they have done that just the wrong channels.Sorry this my last rant on here about hd. Had to get it off my chest.Sorry all.

Just for the record, we just got something like 60 some odd new HD channels without forcing MDN down everyone's throats (to be fair, all new boxes they have handed out since last July come with DN). They got rid of something like 40 analog channels, which should easily accommodate the new ones. PLUS, there's another 30 or so.

ODN/MDN can do SDV, that CAN supply more HD to customers in systems that don't have the kind of overall bandwidth we have (at least 10 years ago, TWC converted all it's trunk to fiber here, so we get something like the last 3-400 feet in copper).

Don't get too excited however, they were also talking about it allowing them to offer new "advanced advertising." Whatever "advanced advertising" means. ;)

You know how right now, many channels take up about 20% of your screen real estate for animated promos for their other shows? Now that everyone is used to this affront, they figure why not advertising that makes them MONEY?

Let's here it for THE KNITTING CHANNEL IN HD!!! OOPS!!! I better shut up before I give them any more ideas! :p

Jack

Not as ridiculous as you might think. Dish Network has a channel from some university on the west cost that has a name almost the same.

Ethernet over Coax

orginally ethernet only ran over coax. Cat 5 cables came much later, twisted pair was an effort to keep up with token ring's much more reliable wiring.

On Navigator.Spoke to TWC today.They said Navigator would be deployed in Greensboro NC on Jan.13.Ok ths is same crew that said Oct.1 was the date and ignored it.If it does guess we will be #1 sara division to switch to Navigator.BUT THATS A BIG IF!I strangely doubt we will see it.But who knows.Somebody in sara sometime will.Will let you all know if it occures.

in a sort of round about way i went from sara to navagator.
our adelphia system was bought by TW. i had sara with adelpia and TW kept us sara for almost a year then changed us to passport for about a month then navagator. i dont know the reason for the switch to passport first. i would like to think they plan further ahead for such changes.

Let's here it for THE KNITTING CHANNEL IN HD!!! OOPS!!! I better shut up before I give them any more ideas! :p

Jack

PBS has an HD knitting program. My wife is upset that our local PBS doesn't carry it.

in a sort of round about way i went from sara to navagator.
our adelphia system was bought by TW. i had sara with adelpia and TW kept us sara for almost a year then changed us to passport for about a month then navagator. i dont know the reason for the switch to passport first. i would like to think they plan further ahead for such changes.

Could you write a short review on sara vs navigator and let us know the pros and cons and which of the 2 (not passport) you perfer.

I have a Navigator recording question.I know you can set airtime recording on Navigator.However say you wish the 1AM recording of Psych on USA on early Sat morning instead of it's earlier prime time showing.Can you set airtime at 1 to record only new episodes or will it record all episodes.On SARA we can set a certain airtime but it will record both new and repeat shows.Just wondered if Navigator let you select new only and if it worked.

we even got fox sports carolina that is set up to only air HD feeds, all other times it is off air. guess what, i havent seen any programming scheduled for that channel since we got it . but i guess that adds to the number of HD channels TW can claim to have.


There are two games on it tonight. I've also address this channel on the Charlotte forum already. It's not Time Warner's fault... for once.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15457258#post15457258

orginally ethernet only ran over coax. Cat 5 cables came much later, twisted pair was an effort to keep up with token ring's much more reliable wiring.

Didn't Token Ring also run over circle coax originally? The advantage of Token Ring was the token passed to reduce contention to the network. Either way, switched Ethernet obsoleted Token Ring for networking computers.

Please Help, I cannot turn off Closed Caption!
My solution was to change CC1 to CC2 in the setting, but that only works on Analog.
On Digital, the CC is still on, and I cannot turn it off (The settings show OFF, and tried ON with Mute). The worst of all, I tried to see how some fancy fonts look like, and I am stuck with it! Even changing fonts did not work.

I just left the HDC unplugged this morning before leaving for work. When I get back home I will plug it and let you guys know what happens. Am I first to have this issue?

Please Help, I cannot turn off Closed Caption!
My solution was to change CC1 to CC2 in the setting, but that only works on Analog.
On Digital, the CC is still on, and I cannot turn it off (The settings show OFF, and tried ON with Mute). The worst of all, I tried to see how some fancy fonts look like, and I am stuck with it! Even changing fonts did not work.

I just left the HDC unplugged this morning before leaving for work. When I get back home I will plug it and let you guys know what happens. Am I first to have this issue?

Well,

Closed-Captioning never worked on my 8300-HD Mystro box even before the change-over to Navigator. However, under Closed Captioning Settings, look for a setting that says, Reset Defaults for BOTH analog and digital captions. Select that setting and see if that makes it go away. The default settings should say something like:

PRIMARY: CC-1 (For Analog)

SERVICE 1: Primary (For Digital)

If in the Settings Screens you see the options that say something like: "Choose by Program" or "Choose by User" make sure you select "Choose by Program."

If you don't see a reset defaults, go to SETTINGS, than Captioning to enter these values for CC. OR if you cannot find a restore defaults setting under Captioning, look for these settings to manually enter them.

Than go under Settings and switch CC to Off. (On with Mute if CC works on your box will only work if Volume control comes through the box, not your TV.)

Is CC still on after those settings have been changed to the above?

Jack

***********************************
PS. There is a way to reset EVERYTHING on your box. And I do mean every thing to the factory presets. I don't know what the process is, but maybe someone will. However, this will:

1.) Reset All Pin #'s to 0000

2.) Delete all PPV/On Demand History

3.) Delete Favorite Channels

4.) Turn off all Parental Control Functions

5.) Reset Banner Duration to Slow

6.) Disable Parental Control if activated.

7.) Turn CC Off and set Captioning Settings to Factory Defaults

In short, it puts your box back to the factory position and you would have to reenter your settings as if you just got a new TWC box. Thing is, I don't know how to do the process, but maybe someone can walk you through this if my instructions don't work. If you do this, than just reenter all your settings and pin#'s. (But I would leave CC in the default mode.)

Jack

Could you write a short review on sara vs navigator and let us know the pros and cons and which of the 2 (not passport) you perfer.

i dont really feel confident enough to do that acurately. its been long enough ago that i really dont remember the specifics of SARA. i do remember not liking passport at first. but thats just because i wasnt used to it. then as i was just getting comfortable with passport i got navigatored. i also recall both of them being more stable than navigator. i never really use the search functions on any of them so i dont know if one was better than the other. i do remember that both passport and sara had more program info even if it had to be put on multiple pages at least it was never cut off in the middle of a word like navig....................

There are two games on it tonight. I've also address this channel on the Charlotte forum already. It's not Time Warner's fault... for once.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15457258#post15457258

yep, i noticed that there was 2 games..finally something, though i didnt watch them.
just because you already adressed it, it doesnt make it alright.
while i agree its not their fault that fox split the channels causing one to have minimal programming. its still a fact that TW picked up a channel that rarely if ever has any programming on it. fox split the channels before TW picked up the channel. it is their fault that they knowingly provided this channel and count it as one of their HD channels even though it is off air 99% of the time.

i dont really feel confident enough to do that acurately. its been long enough ago that i really dont remember the specifics of SARA. i do remember not liking passport at first. but thats just because i wasnt used to it. then as i was just getting comfortable with passport i got navigatored. i also recall both of them being more stable than navigator. i never really use the search functions on any of them so i dont know if one was better than the other. i do remember that both passport and sara had more program info even if it had to be put on multiple pages at least it was never cut off in the middle of a word like navig....................

If there is a cutoff, I think you can get full program information by pressing the info button. I am not certain about this, though.

If there is a cutoff, I think you can get full program information by pressing the info button. I am not certain about this, though.

Yes... hitting INFO a second time brings up the larger info display area and then you may also have up to three additional pages (PAGE UP/DOWN) once the expanded display pops open. The whole info function is pretty much the same as it was in Passpport except that now you have the little tab that pops up on top of the info banner that shows the current program if you "navigate" left and right to look at other other time slots or up and down to look at other channels.

My only peeve with the Navigator info banners is that on Passport the "full" info display would stay open if you changed channels... handy for getting episode info as you surfed. Most Navigator versions I've had revert back to the basic info banner when you change channels. The only exception to this was the next to last Navigator version (the last one before the new color scheme), which added that functionality. However, the most recent version lost it again and it once again reverts to the basic banner when you change channels. Hope this finds it way back in the future.

Yes... hitting INFO a second time brings up the larger info display area and then you may also have up to three additional pages (PAGE UP/DOWN) once the expanded display pops open. The whole info function is pretty much the same as it was in Passpport except that now you have the little tab that pops up on top of the info banner that shows the current program if you "navigate" left and right to look at other other time slots or up and down to look at other channels.

My only peeve with the Navigator info banners is that on Passport the "full" info display would stay open if you changed channels... handy for getting episode info as you surfed. Most Navigator versions I've had revert back to the basic info banner when you change channels. The only exception to this was the next to last Navigator version (the last one before the new color scheme), which added that functionality. However, the most recent version lost it again and it once again reverts to the basic banner when you change channels. Hope this finds it way back in the future.

With one MAJOR difference. On Passport you could record once you saw something you like on the banner view (while browsing, going up down or advance an hour or later). on Navigator you cannot do it. Hitting record starts recording the current program, hitting select just brings you back to what you are watching. Therefore you would still have to go through guide, which only advances by 30 minutes, and not by show. Another reason Navigator is frustrating.

Yes... hitting INFO a second time brings up the larger info display area and then you may also have up to three additional pages (PAGE UP/DOWN) once the expanded display pops open. The whole info function is pretty much the same as it was in Passpport except that now you have the little tab that pops up on top of the info banner that shows the current program if you "navigate" left and right to look at other other time slots or up and down to look at other channels.

In Passport highlighting a show in the guide would give you a brief synopsis and star rating in the summary box. Hitting INFO would then continue the description directly or add further exposition and also add director information.

In Navigator highlighting a show in the guide will give you an even more brief synopsis (that's also poorly written) but no star rating. The only thing hitting INFO does is move the synopsis to the larger area underneath where it also adds the star rating. So basically the only point in pressing INFO in Nav is to see how many stars it gets. Otherwise the information is usually exactly the same as the uselessly brief browsing summary.

Cutoff is always happening in the recorded show list. Highlighting a show with a brief summary in the list and pressing INFO will result in a truncated description that cuts off before it comp ...

It seems to me that TWC have just been lazy and designed all the text information so that it's short enough to fit into the three line extended banner bar without needing to page up and down, and then just used that for everything else. I can't remember the last time I had to page up and down anywhere for program information.

Best Nav guide description of the day:
"Return of the Jedi - Jedi knight Luke Skywalker (Mark Hamill) tries to identify Darth Vader"

Woo that sounds exciting! Just as I remember it. An extended lineup at the police department! :D

Before last night, 24 had not been on since May of 2007. We got 'Gatored sometime late Spring of 2008. The general thought process has been that when you get 'gatored that it only keeps the scheduled recordings that it can find in the next couple of weeks. However this week my 8300HD set itself to record the season of 24 complete with the overrun that I had set up 3 years ago without me having to do anything. I guess it's possible that navigator keeps old series recordings somewhere just in case the shows pop up someday. Anybody else had something similar happen?

On my versions of Navigator, (I currently have version 3) I get (got) star ratings in the guide description when Info is pressed.

Jack

On my versions of Navigator, (I currently have version 3) I get (got) star ratings in the guide description when Info is pressed.

Jack


I noticed that the colors are different as well. So why is TWC waiting to upgrade the version of ODN on some cities? Does it even cost them anything? They already have it out there.

As for the caption problem, it is fixed after disconnecting the power.

So why is TWC waiting to upgrade the version of ODN on some cities? Does it even cost them anything? They already have it out there.TWC is not a monolithic organization--the individual systems have some degree of autonomy, particularly as regards the roll-out of new software and hardware. They all have to perform tests of new stuff in their system; they can't assume that it'll work for them just because it works in some other town, and if there is some problem locally, the corporate office isn't going to handle the landslide of calls they get from irate subs.

That's really strange a business modal, but thanks for the info.

In Passport highlighting a show in the guide would give you a brief synopsis and star rating in the summary box. Hitting INFO would then continue the description directly or add further exposition and also add director information.

In Navigator highlighting a show in the guide will give you an even more brief synopsis (that's also poorly written) but no star rating. The only thing hitting INFO does is move the synopsis to the larger area underneath where it also adds the star rating. So basically the only point in pressing INFO in Nav is to see how many stars it gets. Otherwise the information is usually exactly the same as the uselessly brief browsing summary.

Cutoff is always happening in the recorded show list. Highlighting a show with a brief summary in the list and pressing INFO will result in a truncated description that cuts off before it comp ...

It seems to me that TWC have just been lazy and designed all the text information so that it's short enough to fit into the three line extended banner bar without needing to page up and down, and then just used that for everything else. I can't remember the last time I had to page up and down anywhere for program information.



Looking through the channels now and many shows have multipage expanded descriptions with plot summary, cast names, genre, CC, SAP and HD status, run times and, in the case of theatrical movies, star ratings. With the exception of director information, it is not any different than what I remember seeing on Passport. Whatever differences there might be are more likely due to the service providing the listings rather than any inherent limitations in Navigator.

That's really strange a business modal, but thanks for the info.

Not really... they could never even consider massive national rollouts involving hardware... even doing just one division at a time will usually clean out the inventory of equipment suppliers. Also, doing staggered rollouts of hardware or software allows corporate level support to pay more attention and provide better support to the division during the rollout.

Not really... they could never even consider massive national rollouts involving hardware... even doing just one division at a time will usually clean out the inventory of equipment suppliers. Also, doing staggered rollouts of hardware or software allows corporate level support to pay more attention and provide better support to the division during the rollout.

I think the issue is that there are wildly different capabilities with the same hardware and software between one head end and another. EVEN in the same city. One would THINK with the exact same hardware/software, the same features would be available. To me, that is a total failure of any form of business model. AND will greatly lead to folks dropping TWC. It's only a total seat of the pants guess, but I'd bet 30% of their customers will jump ship as soon as they actually have FIOS available.

I agree with fellow New Yorker above. We are not only talking about hardware differences which is understandable with supply limitations, but also software. Don't you think it would make it easier for them to all work on same version at the same time and upgrade everyone at the same time (or within reasonable time period), instead of getting a call from someone asking about a feature, and then taking time looking up version, etc. Of course it is difficult to get that done within short period of time, but 1 year between two states when it comes to getting newer (not always better) software, that's really odd.

Looking through the channels now and many shows have multipage expanded descriptions with plot summary, cast names, genre, CC, SAP and HD status, run times and, in the case of theatrical movies, star ratings.

Take a screen image of what you consider a multi-page because I haven't found one that is. All the programming information is a three line summary and requires no page up or down command.

On the few occasions that the inset box summary is too long, expanding the guide box so the text is moved to the main area reveals just one or two extra words. It's not even close to the paragraph of extra information that was present in Navigator.

The information provider hasn't changed but the ability of the guide to display that information has. Just take a look at the recording list and schedule to see just how Nav cannot cope with displaying text.

Take a screen image of what you consider a multi-page because I haven't found one that is. All the programming information is a three line summary and requires no page up or down command.

On the few occasions that the inset box summary is too long, expanding the guide box so the text is moved to the main area reveals just one or two extra words. It's not even close to the paragraph of extra information that was present in Navigator.

The information provider hasn't changed but the ability of the guide to display that information has. Just take a look at the recording list and schedule to see just how Nav cannot cope with displaying text.

Maybe he is looking through channels on the [Info]+[Info] banner not the Guide screen?

I agree with fellow New Yorker above. We are not only talking about hardware differences which is understandable with supply limitations, but also software. Don't you think it would make it easier for them to all work on same version at the same time and upgrade everyone at the same time (or within reasonable time period), instead of getting a call from someone asking about a feature, and then taking time looking up version, etc. Of course it is difficult to get that done within short period of time, but 1 year between two states when it comes to getting newer (not always better) software, that's really odd.The vast majority of their customers don't hang out in forums like this and are utterly unaware of features in newer versions of the IPG, so the nuisance of handling any calls from people like us who are aware of those features and want to know when they'll be getting them is negligible.

The larger a set of managed hardware is, the more difficult it is to handle upgrades of either software or hardware. It takes a major effort to manage the upgrade of the desktop PCs of a few thousand employees located in a few adjacent buildings to a new version, and that problem is a few orders of magnitude less complex than trying to simultaneously upgrade the software in millions of cable set tops located in homes around the nation. Add to that the fact that there is absolutely nothing to be gained by doing it.

If you think that they're stupid not to try to do that, go ahead--believe that if it makes you happy.

Maybe he is looking through channels on the [Info]+[Info] banner not the Guide screen?

I haven't seen any multi page info while banner browsing either. Which brings me back to my first comment in that it appears that across Nav there's a three line limit to text.

It looks like they've designed it for banner browsing panels and then just used that across the software without bothering to take advantage of the extra screen real estate available in the main info panel.

Maybe he is looking through channels on the [Info]+[Info] banner not the Guide screen?

Exactly... that was the question that prompted the discussion.

I agree with fellow New Yorker above. We are not only talking about hardware differences which is understandable with supply limitations, but also software. Don't you think it would make it easier for them to all work on same version at the same time and upgrade everyone at the same time (or within reasonable time period), instead of getting a call from someone asking about a feature, and then taking time looking up version, etc. Of course it is difficult to get that done within short period of time, but 1 year between two states when it comes to getting newer (not always better) software, that's really odd.

Having been in the business for over 18 years, there is so much that goes into these rollouts from a hardware, software, logistics and even legal standpoint that is beyond what the customer typically considers. Staged rollouts are just about the only way that it can be effectively handled. If you think that they are mis-handling rollouts to a few hundred thousand customers, imagine how bad it could get if they rolled out to millions at one time!:eek: I'd be the last person to defend the SOB's at TWC, but I know from experience that a corporate-wide rollout of anything in a highly compressed timeframe is a recipe for disaster.

Add in the fact that each TW division is fairly autonomous and makes a lot of its own decisions based on franchise requirements, system bandwidth availability, local rate structures, the division's own cash-flow situation, etc. Corporate may dictate the hardware and software platforms that the divisions will use, but the implementation timetable and exact methodology of implementation are more up to the division.

Looking just within a single division, though, you are correct. Any software rollouts within a division should not take an exceptionally long period of time. Here in Charlotte, I have not seen that. The initial rollout of Navigator (nee Mystro) took a few months... mainly, I suspect, to allow customer service to deal with the inevitable phone calls that would occur as customers received their updates. Subsequent updates have come fairly regularly and in shorter rollout windows since the changes are much less dramatic than a complete new OS rollout.

This may be hard to consider, but in the grand scheme of things this actually IS an accelerated rollout, prompted by the FCC's requirement for separable security.