As for the caption problem, it is fixed after disconnecting the power.

Not on my 8300-HD box. It never worked with Passport either. This is a common problem with a lot of the boxes. The C-boxes seem to work better with CC, but also have their own sets of issues such as longer boot times and slower IPG browsing.

Jack

On the few occasions that the inset box summary is too long, expanding the guide box so the text is moved to the main area reveals just one or two extra words. It's not even close to the paragraph of extra information that was present in Navigator.

I think your last word above should be Passport. LOL! What's interesting is for On Demand movies, I get very detailed info. WITH a Page +/- graphic display, but AFAIK, this in only present for On-Demand Programs on the On-Demand Channels The thing is, I almost never order On Demand/PPV so I am not too familiar with those screens. I can tell you that the graphics in Navigator version 3 are not only better in the IPG grid, but also for On-Demand programs. Access to Free On-Demand in version 3 also seems to be faster and somewhat more reliable.

I just want Keyword Searching, than I will be content with Navigator.

Jack

If there is a cutoff, I think you can get full program information by pressing the info button. I am not certain about this, though.
pressing info gives nothing more than the same cut off info in a bigger box. i have never seen a page up or down in navigator. passport and sara did handle info with page up and down

I'll try to get some tonight... I know for sure that the "24" episode I recorded last night had them (the recordings retain all the banner info).

Take a screen image of what you consider a multi-page because I haven't found one that is. All the programming information is a three line summary and requires no page up or down command.

On the few occasions that the inset box summary is too long, expanding the guide box so the text is moved to the main area reveals just one or two extra words. It's not even close to the paragraph of extra information that was present in Navigator.

The information provider hasn't changed but the ability of the guide to display that information has. Just take a look at the recording list and schedule to see just how Nav cannot cope with displaying text.

I'll try to get some tonight... I know for sure that the "24" episode I recorded last night had them (the recordings retain all the banner info).

I have a non dvr Navigator at my beach house.It gives muti page show information and it's on a pioneer box.

Basic Info Banner:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/jcalabria/Banner/Banner024Small.jpg

Expanded Banner, Page 1:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/jcalabria/Banner/Banner025Small.jpg

Expanded Banner, Page 2:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/jcalabria/Banner/Banner026Small.jpg

Basic Info Banner:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/jcalabria/Banner/Banner015Small.jpg

Expanded Banner, Page 1:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/jcalabria/Banner/Banner016Small.jpg

Expanded Banner, Page 2:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/jcalabria/Banner/Banner017Small.jpg

Other Multipage:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/jcalabria/Banner/Banner029Small.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/jcalabria/Banner/Banner005Small.jpg

Looks like NC has the latest version of ODN as well.

Looks like NC has the latest version of ODN as well.

Charlotte Division does... Greensboro/Triad not even on Navigator at all (yet). Not sure about Raleigh or Wilmington divisions.

On TWC-SD there are definitely TWO different databases - one for GUIDE and a second for SEARCH.
I go to the latter to see the more complete description....and it's NOT a simple truncation....

Does anyone whose system uses SDV have any issues right now?

In the San Diego system, many of the SDV channels have become unwatchable - bad macroblocking, picture breakup, etc.

I just want to see if it's local to us or are other systems affected as well.

Does anyone whose system uses SDV have any issues right now?

In the San Diego system, many of the SDV channels have become unwatchable - bad macroblocking, picture breakup, etc.

I just want to see if it's local to us or are other systems affected as well.

The "trick" to SDV is mainly in the "on-the-fly" channel setup... once the channel is set up to your node the video transmission parameters should not be any different than any other channel.

I'm not saying you don't have an issue, just that whatever is causing the problem would likely cause the same issues on a "broadcast" channel that was using the same RF channel in your location. It's not inherent to the channel being SDV. More than likely there is just an RF distribution issue in your area for the spectrum assigned to SDV.

Another possibility that is a bit more SDV oriented would be that they are having router issues at a hubsite.

Either way... time for a service call and let them figure it out... that's what you pay them $150/mo for, lol.

Since the intro of SDV in Charlotte last year, I have not seen any issues other than a very occasional (and transient) "Channel not available" message. I've actually been somewhat surprised at how well it actually works and particularly how quick the channel setup is... you can surf right through a bunch of SDV channels and not notice any lag at all.

The "trick" to SDV is mainly in the "on-the-fly" channel setup... once the channel is set up to your node the video transmission parameters should not be any different than any other channel.

I'm not saying you don't have an issue, just that whatever is causing the problem would likely cause the same issues on a "broadcast" channel that was using the same RF channel in your location. It's not inherent to the channel being SDV. More than likely there is just an RF distribution issue in your area for the spectrum assigned to SDV.

Another possibility that is a bit more SDV oriented would be that they are having router issues at a hubsite.

Either way... time for a service call and let them figure it out... that's what you pay them $150/mo for, lol.

Since the intro of SDV in Charlotte last year, I have not seen any issues other than a very occasional (and transient) "Channel not available" message. I've actually been somewhat surprised at how well it actually works and particularly how quick the channel setup is... you can surf right through a bunch of SDV channels and not notice any lag at all.

It's not just me - several people have reported it on the local San Diego HDTV forum. TWC is aware of this problem and is working on it and messages have been entered that say that many, but not all, of the problem channels are back working again.

Looks like something at the head end had problems.

I've linked an article below about tru2way boxes which includes quotes from Kevin Leddy, TWCs executive vice president of technology policy and product management.

It appears that he is hoping 3rd parties develop better hardware and software than TWC can provide. This probably means that any imprevements to Navigator are going to be very incremental and slow to develop.

The MSO is examining ways of getting Internet content to the TV, Leddy added, and said tru2way-based third-party devices may be better suited to doing that. “We’re looking at is, is there some way to get YouTube clips on our set-top? Or even have Netflix have access to our set-top boxes? That’s a device I would love to build for our customers, but that would of course be a rather expensive device.”

Time Warner Cable buys about 2 million set-tops every year. “Adding any incremental function to the boxes means we’re spending a lot more capital,” Leddy said. “Cable can provide a good, middle-of-the-road set-top to customers. But we can’t afford to build and lease [the equivalent of] a TiVo Series 3 [which provides broadband-delivered content and home-theater features].”

Continued Leddy, “At this point our set-tops are not necessarily capable of doing all the search and navigation functions that customers want… I see tru2way as a way to put applications into a more sophisticated device that consumers want.”

Leddy also goes on to say that he thinks CableCard is here to stay and downloadable security(DCAS) is dead in the water.

Everyone knows how tight lipped TWC is so this interview is about as close as we get to seeing inside the evil empire. :D

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6628298.html?nid=4262

Everyone knows how tight lipped TWC is so this interview is about as close as we get to seeing inside the evil empire. :D

We will surely get those plans one day. Go Rebel Alliance! :p

I've linked an article below about tru2way boxes which includes quotes from Kevin Leddy, TWCs executive vice president of technology policy and product management.

It appears that he is hoping 3rd parties develop better hardware and software than TWC can provide. This probably means that any imprevements to Navigator are going to be very incremental and slow to develop.

The MSO is examining ways of getting Internet content to the TV, Leddy added, and said tru2way-based third-party devices may be better suited to doing that. “We’re looking at is, is there some way to get YouTube clips on our set-top? Or even have Netflix have access to our set-top boxes? That’s a device I would love to build for our customers, but that would of course be a rather expensive device.”

Time Warner Cable buys about 2 million set-tops every year. “Adding any incremental function to the boxes means we’re spending a lot more capital,” Leddy said. “Cable can provide a good, middle-of-the-road set-top to customers. But we can’t afford to build and lease [the equivalent of] a TiVo Series 3 [which provides broadband-delivered content and home-theater features].”

Continued Leddy, “At this point our set-tops are not necessarily capable of doing all the search and navigation functions that customers want… I see tru2way as a way to put applications into a more sophisticated device that consumers want.”

Leddy also goes on to say that he thinks CableCard is here to stay and downloadable security(DCAS) is dead in the water.

Everyone knows how tight lipped TWC is so this interview is about as close as we get to seeing inside the evil empire. :D

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6628298.html?nid=4262


I don't buy any of that. Both satellite providers have set tops that are light years ahead of TWC's current crop of hardware. The main stumbling block here is the Navigator software. I do agree that 3rd party manufacturers could produce better options, but I don't think people are going to pay hundreds of dollars for set top boxes either. At least sat providers help subsidize the cost.

The "trick" to SDV is mainly in the "on-the-fly" channel setup... once the channel is set up to your node the video transmission parameters should not be any different than any other channel.

I seem to remember that some area of California was upgrading to systems pushing to higher frequencies - that could definitely be a contributor.

The only way to debug this is to check the signal to noise ratio in the diags. Make sure it is at least 33. Check it on a channel that is macro blocking. Try removing splitters etc and see if it improves.

xnappo

I don't buy any of that. Both satellite providers have set tops that are light years ahead of TWC's current crop of hardware. The main stumbling block here is the Navigator software.

I disagree with the first of your statements, agree with the second. The SA8300HD DVR I have is an excellent dual-tuner machine, with both an eSATA port that works and a 1394 port that doesn't. It's the uber-crappy Navigator software that's the problem. Aside from the firewire issue (which was deliberately disabled by TWC), the previous software I had on my box - Passport Echo - worked just fine. But there's nothing wrong with the hardware that I can see.

The hardware is OK, but still outdated when compared to the competition. Hell, it can't even do a 16x9 guide! It's slow and has HDCP handshake issues with everything I throw at it so I relegated to using component. It has a minuscule hard drive, but I'll give you (depending on software) that the ESATA allows for expansion. I will also give you that I have not had the option of comparing Passport to anything, so I am used to SARA.

The hardware is OK, but still outdated when compared to the competition. Hell, it can't even do a 16x9 guide!

That's not a software issue?

The hardware is OK, but still outdated when compared to the competition. Hell, it can't even do a 16x9 guide! It's slow and has HDCP handshake issues with everything I throw at it so I relegated to using component. It has a minuscule hard drive, but I'll give you (depending on software) that the ESATA allows for expansion. I will also give you that I have not had the option of comparing Passport to anything, so I am used to SARA.

I have had Sara,Passport and Navigator.Passport is the best because of keyword search and manual recording.Navigator a close second just lacking a couple key features.Sara trails in the rear view mirror and falling further behind passport and navigator.Sara is reliable but lacks to many features that passport and navigator have to stay on a par with those 2.

That's not a software issue?

No, the guide is "640x480" or 4x3. The current crop of TWC boxes are incapable of displaying a guide in 16x9 due to hardware limitation. A 16x9 set can stretch it, but on an HD channel the guide will appear as 4x3.

Just compare what's coming down the pipe with the satellite companies. DirecTivo and look at the new ViP922 from Dish! Cable's offerings pale in comparison.

Please stop, you will make me jump ship and go with DirecTV. I just rode the train yesterday and I noticed how almost every house on the route has Dish or DirecTV antennas on their roofs, I had never noticed that before, until this stupid Navigator came along.

We were all happy with Passport, can't we start a petition and send it to TWC? Instead of just talking among ourselves here and trying to be happy with what we got, can't we just get proactive and do something against TWC's "Take it or Leave it" attitude?

They don't even know there are so many people talking about their boxes, firmware, features, etc. All they think is "cable subscribers don't know squat, we will give them what we wish and they will be happy with it, thank god most of them don't know about what other companies are offering".

Please stop, you will make me jump ship and go with DirecTV. I just rode the train yesterday and I noticed how almost every house on the route has Dish or DirecTV antennas on their roofs, I had never noticed that before, until this stupid Navigator came along.

This is what it takes. TWC released the Q4 report and they took a beating. I'm right there ready to switch come springtime.

We were all happy with Passport, can't we start a petition and send it to TWC? Instead of just talking among ourselves here and trying to be happy with what we got, can't we just get proactive and do something against TWC's "Take it or Leave it" attitude?

Many have tried, but the bottom line is that TWC doesn't care. They just don't get it. They think they are cutting edge with crap like Caller ID on TV and Start Over.

They don't even know there are so many people talking about their boxes, firmware, features, etc. All they think is "cable subscribers don't know squat, we will give them what we wish and they will be happy with it, thank god most of them don't know about what other companies are offering".

Hit the nail on the head. For a brief while, there was a Corporate Presence on this forum. (Diana) She was soliciting input from members here about everything from programming to features. We were thrilled to have an actual head of something from TWC here to get real input. Soon after the thread started, she vanished. TWC knows most people aren't tech savvy and don't care so long as they can watch the TV. They depend on people thinking their DVR is the best because they don't know any better. And they know, no matter how good satellite may be in relation that some people will not switch no matter what.

In my division they are hiking rates anywhere from $4-$6 based on package, but at the same time have removed channels and stagnated the HD line up. But, it's still "Free HD"!!! TWC has such a good product in it's RoadRunner and Digital Phone around here, it amazes me that they continually lack any advances in the core product of cable!

PS: This is what a guide should look like.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadgethd.com/media/2009/01/epg.jpg

Is that advertisement on the top? What is that Bond picture doing there? The guide looks fancy but it looks too virtual or too out of touch with reality. For some reason I like the look of TWC guide, I don't know why. It looked hardcore. :) Above looks like it may hang anytime... Of course that may not be the case. They may have enough juice in the box to support abvoe interface smoothly.

The guide is fully customizable for the coming soon Dish ViP922 Sling Loaded DVR with 1TB HDD. This screen shot is from the launch. I have others if interested, but you can find alot by Google Searching "Dish ViP 922". Dish is getting away from channel numbers altogether it appears as they did the demo at CES. They are going to a more logo based touchscreen remote that has a surfacepad like a laptop. They are allowing you to group channels and search, etc. It looks very intuitive. The box as a whole has a more "media center" approach to it and I believe it is the first with Wi-Fi built in.

My main point in comparing all this to TWC and Navigator was to show how far ahead and forward thinking the satcos are. Personally, I like the Verizon FiOS guide layout the best from what I've seen so far. However, I do like the channel logos in the guide idea.

Ben, just curious... are you in central NY city or central NY state?

Syracuse DMA, Central NY

What is that Bond picture doing there?I believe that's the inset video from the currently viewed tuner. It's just bigger than what we're used to from Navigator, Passport and SARA, and centered instead of shoved into the upper righthand corner (much easier to acheive if the guide can use the entire screen).

Interesting that it seems to have a font size control.

Oh you are right, currently viewed channel, but it is sad that they leave all that black area unused. It would be cool if they put the picture from other tuner next to it, just made it similar to what we have and moved other information next to it.

Anyway, let's keep the topic on Navigator, and maybe we can start or continue the Dish / DirecTV discussion in its own topic, (if there is one), otherwise, it is good that we get some comparison shots and see what other sets are like.

The only thing I can say to Pasport users about Navigator is that you should try SARA for about six months and you would fall in love with Navigator.Passport spoiled you.(Rightly So)I had Passport at the beach and loved iT.If you think Navigator is missing features you should try seeing what SARA is missing.Almost no search,clunky controls and butt ugly interface.(Yes more ugly than orginial Navigator.I understand you want the same features you lost.But us SARA folk are leaveing rail travel and moveing to airline travel with Navigator,Like I stated about any thing compare apples to apples.(I do not mean the gold standard TIVO)Navigator is years ahead of SARA.

The only thing I can say to Pasport users about Navigator is that you should try SARA for about six months and you would fall in love with Navigator.Passport spoiled you.(Rightly So)I had Passport at the beach and loved iT.If you think Navigator is missing features you should try seeing what SARA is missing.Almost no search,clunky controls and butt ugly interface.(Yes more ugly than orginial Navigator.I understand you want the same features you lost.But us SARA folk are leaveing rail travel and moveing to airline travel with Navigator,Like I stated about any thing compare apples to apples.(I do not mean the gold standard TIVO)Navigator is years ahead of SARA.

I agree... I've seen SARA at my daughter's apartment in Greensboro and its ghastly, to say the least.

I previously had Passport on a non-DVR Pioneer HD box, so I never really paid much attention to or needed the guide/scheduling facilities. When that was upgraded to Mystro my only complaint was its slowness - both in button response and in loading show info/guides - a big issue with a single tuner box. When I upgraded to the 8300HDC, Mystro/Navigator came alive... instant guide access and much snappier channel changes (the Pioneer just didn't have the horses to run Navigator). Plus the graphics were much improved as well.

As far as DVR scheduling/searching facilities, my point of reference is my old Panasonic DMR-EH85... compared to the Panny's TVGOS guide, the Navigator guide and info banners are absolutely wonderful. As I noted before, my only real complaint with the latest version of Navigator is that I can't keep the expanded INFO banner open as I surf channels - and maybe needing a 30/60 second skip feature for the DVR... I do miss that from the Panny DVR. Not likely to see that, though, as the cable ops sell those spots we want to skip.

This is what it takes. TWC released the Q4 report and they took a beating. I'm right there ready to switch come springtime.



Many have tried, but the bottom line is that TWC doesn't care. They just don't get it. They think they are cutting edge with crap like Caller ID on TV and Start Over.



Hit the nail on the head. For a brief while, there was a Corporate Presence on this forum. (Diana) She was soliciting input from members here about everything from programming to features. We were thrilled to have an actual head of something from TWC here to get real input. Soon after the thread started, she vanished. TWC knows most people aren't tech savvy and don't care so long as they can watch the TV. They depend on people thinking their DVR is the best because they don't know any better. And they know, no matter how good satellite may be in relation that some people will not switch no matter what.

In my division they are hiking rates anywhere from $4-$6 based on package, but at the same time have removed channels and stagnated the HD line up. But, it's still "Free HD"!!! TWC has such a good product in it's RoadRunner and Digital Phone around here, it amazes me that they continually lack any advances in the core product of cable!

PS: This is what a guide should look like.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadgethd.com/media/2009/01/epg.jpg

Nice!

The only thing I don't like is the big banner ad at the top.

Jack

I don't believe the actual unit has that as a banner ad. It's likely the currently viewed show.

At CES2008 (a year ago) I saw the same LIVE tru2way IPG running on LG, Mitsubishi,
Panasonic & Sony HDTVs. Because Las Vegas is COMCAST territory, that's the version
that was running, showing several different menu displays, ranging from
11-channelsx2.5hr, 8-channelsx2.5hr+Info and 4-channelsx2.5hr+WideScreen View:
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/ces2008

FYI: I also posted some pictures from last week's CES2009:
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/ces2009

The cable companies "simply" need to figure out how to roll out WORKING software....

God Dammit! (Pardon Me) She did it again!!! Recorded Man Vs. Food in SD instead of HD. It's like talking to rocks around here. I'm glad I spent $3K plus to redo the Theater Room with HD only to watch blocky SD material on it. I know this may seem petty, but I'm seriously considering switching for the sole reason of having a guide that allows customization. I was hoping for Navigator so I could at least see if they did something like this, but with either sat provider I know I'll have this option. Now, DirecTV needs to add TravelHD!!! Ugh!!!! That or preview that ViP922 when it gets released in a few months!

No Travel Channel HD on DirecTV? Dish Network has it.

Navigator's scheduling algorithm doesn't seem to respond properly to schedule changes. It started recording Bones and Ugly Betty tonight even though its program guide clearly shows that the President's farewell address is scheduled for both stations.

After all this (And today getting "DVR Service is not available, please try again in 1 minute) I started seriously thinking about jumping ship. I started this topic:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=147197

PS: This is what a guide should look like.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadgethd.com/media/2009/01/epg.jpg

Ben,

Dish also said in the press release at CES that they are going to announce a tru2way version of the VIP 922 this spring.

Since TWC has committed to implementing tru2way in all markets by July 1st of this year there is a chance that TWC customers could be using a VIP 922 by Christmas.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/01/08/echostar-to-announce-slingloaded-tru2way-box-with-this-spring/

That would be killer! I'd settle for a basic DVR option like the current 722! I could then add OTA to my cable and have a quality guide to boot. Thing is by the time this becomes a reality, I'll most likely be switched. I'm not counting on TWC to come through with anything big by Spring.

Navigator's scheduling algorithm doesn't seem to respond properly to schedule changes. It started recording Bones and Ugly Betty tonight even though its program guide clearly shows that the President's farewell address is scheduled for both stations.

yup yup, abc showed two episode of scrubs and it was in theguide, but the box recorded "ugly betty".

btw, i loved passport, but im over it now. im okay with navigator.

cant wait for the next box that can handle 16x9.

Ben,

Dish also said in the press release at CES that they are going to announce a tru2way version of the VIP 922 this spring.

Since TWC has committed to implementing tru2way in all markets by July 1st of this year there is a chance that TWC customers could be using a VIP 922 by Christmas.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/01/08/echostar-to-announce-slingloaded-tru2way-box-with-this-spring/

What will VIP do? Does this mean we will get a better guide than Navigator, or more two-way services with existing Navigator?

Jack

It means if TWC deploys tru2way CableCards, you would have a ViP922 with Slingbox and DISH Networks DVR Software! No more Navigator! You would have the guide I pictured above with all the features of that box. It would be one of the first major salvos in third party hardware.

The guide data, etc, would be downloaded from TWC's headend, but the box would run it's own software. Same thing if Tivo releases a tru2way box. This was the original vision of the OCAP platform. IE: Open Cable where customers aren't forced to rent a set top from the provider.

Tru2way doesn't need special cable cards. Cable Cards are 2 way. Just plain old cable cards communicating with the tru2way stack and hardware. They haven't finalized the retail tru2way DVR specs so it might not be until next year until we see a retail tru2way product. They might finalize the specs this year and maybe Tivo could showcase a Series 4 tru2way model with Home server capabilities.

Tru2way doesn't need special cable cards. Cable Cards are 2 way. Just plain old cable cards communicating with the tru2way stack and hardware. They haven't finalized the retail tru2way DVR specs so it might not be until next year until we see a retail tru2way product. They might finalize the specs this year and maybe Tivo could showcase a Series 4 tru2way model with Home server capabilities.

Point taken. I was merely implying that you would still need a CableCard for the box in order to get PPV, VOD, and SDV content though. The card is essential to the separable security, without it the box would be worthless to a cable sub. The format may still be different than what is deployed now depending on compatibility issues, but this remains to be seen. To me, just the fact that it's being worked on for widespread deployment is a giant step in the right direction after such a long time.

It means if TWC deploys tru2way CableCards, you would have a ViP922 with Slingbox and DISH Networks DVR Software! No more Navigator! You would have the guide I pictured above with all the features of that box. It would be one of the first major salvos in third party hardware.

The guide data, etc, would be downloaded from TWC's headend, but the box would run it's own software. Same thing if Tivo releases a tru2way box. This was the original vision of the OCAP platform. IE: Open Cable where customers aren't forced to rent a set top from the provider.

Errr, are you sure about that? I am pretty sure that by default, any tru2way device is going to run the software pushed out by the cable company (in our case Navigator). The exception is the next Tivo, which will build in a tuning adapter and allow you to switch between Tivo software with the tuning adapter, and the cable company software.

xnappo

I don't count on TWC doing anything new in NYC for a long time...
I wonder if it would be better (SAFER) for me to just buy a TiVo instead of using TWC's boxes? (compared to moving to satellite and risking reception or poor installation, etc..) ?
But TiVo does not do On Demand, right?

I don't count on TWC doing anything new in NYC for a long time...
I wonder if it would be better (SAFER) for me to just buy a TiVo instead of using TWC's boxes? (compared to moving to satellite and risking reception or poor installation, etc..) ?
But TiVo does not do On Demand, right?

Time Warner doing nothing new.Remember sara is 75% of their boxes and they have not been Navigated yet,Don't count on anything but a hopefully more improved Navigator in anyone with Time warner in the future.

For what its worth...
"(TW is) on track to enable support for retail devices compatible with CableLabs' tru2way interactive TV specification across their footprints by July 1."
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/161960-CES_Comcast_Time_Warner_Cable_To_Flip_Tru2way_Switch_By_July _1.php

10 of 22 divisions are claimed to be already up & running.

That's good news I assume. IO Digital / Cablevision has been advertising being able to watch online videos on their boxes for a while, I wonder if that's tru2way..?

Time Warner doing nothing new.Remember sara is 75% of their boxes and they have not been Navigated yet,Don't count on anything but a hopefully more improved Navigator in anyone with Time warner in the future.

I would have to agree. The problem is after spending millions and millions of dollars to take over 2 years to get Navigator to "tolerable" levels and with the economy in a downward spiral that could last for years, many cooperations are not going to be going to third party hardware applications to run their software. We have to remember that TWC did this to save money as opposed to paying Aptiv TV/Passport and SARA OS's for IPG updates. The money that they have invested in the Mystro/OCAP Navigator project is what they wanted to do. TWC wanted control of an IPG that they could call their own. (Which is ironic, because they are still using TV Guide's often incorrect data for series.)

I agree with CW. All you are going to see over the months and years will be gradual improvements to Navigator. I have contacted higher ups in the company asking for KeyWord Search in the next upgrade. I cannot reveal my source, but I will post what he/she said when I hear back from them.

There is just no way that after spending two years with a project that started off with all the success of The Hindenburg and The Titanic, (LOL!) that TWC is going to say, "You know what? We were dead wrong about this Navigator project, so let's work out a deal with Dish Network or Direct TV to get data from their guide and OS. That won't work for three reasons:

1.) Dish providers and cable providers hate each other ever since their existence. TWC has a better chance of coming to an agreement with the NFL Network for carriage tomorrow, than to have the cable/dish guys exchanging data and OS protocols with each other.

2.) All cable operators hate the very mention of any subs using third party equipment for any of their programing, telephone, or on-line services. (This includes the very mention of the word, "Tivo," "Can I buy my own equipment?" and so on.)

3.) Perhaps in hindsight, TWC regretted not paying outside vendors for the updates. But it's too late in the project for them to go back to what they should have done. TWC should probably do the next best thing, but with the economy as it is, I don't see this happening any time soon. I was going to suggest the company paying outside software developers to design enhanced applets for future interactive services on Navigator, rather than have TWC develop it themselves, which the cable company does not have enough programmers and developers who are qualified to do that.

But as far as Navigator going away, hate to say this, but sorry, it's not happening.

Jack

Errr, are you sure about that? I am pretty sure that by default, any tru2way device is going to run the software pushed out by the cable company (in our case Navigator). The exception is the next Tivo, which will build in a tuning adapter and allow you to switch between Tivo software with the tuning adapter, and the cable company software.

xnappo

The cable companies and the consumer electronics(CE) companies agreed to a "memorandum of understanding" last summer in which the cable companies allowed CE companies to create their own GUI for DVR purposes as long as it used TV Guide data. PPV, OnDemand, etc. would use the cable company interface. The link below has the details.

In the pictures of the VIP 922 guide there would be an icon for PPV, etc. that would lead to the Navigator interface.

http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=156273&site=cdn

I would have to agree. The problem is after spending millions and millions of dollars to take over 2 years to get Navigator to "tolerable" levels and with the economy in a downward spiral that could last for years, many cooperations are not going to be going to third party hardware applications to run their software. We have to remember that TWC did this to save money as opposed to paying Aptiv TV/Passport and SARA OS's for IPG updates. The money that they have invested in the Mystro/OCAP Navigator project is what they wanted to do. TWC wanted control of an IPG that they could call their own. (Which is ironic, because they are still using TV Guide's often incorrect data for series.)

I agree with CW. All you are going to see over the months and years will be gradual improvements to Navigator. I have contacted higher ups in the company asking for KeyWord Search in the next upgrade. I cannot reveal my source, but I will post what he/she said when I hear back from them.

There is just no way that after spending two years with a project that started off with all the success of The Hindenburg and The Titanic, (LOL!) that TWC is going to say, "You know what? We were dead wrong about this Navigator project, so let's work out a deal with Dish Network or Direct TV to get data from their guide and OS. That won't work for three reasons:

1.) Dish providers and cable providers hate each other ever since their existence. TWC has a better chance of coming to an agreement with the NFL Network for carriage tomorrow, than to have the cable/dish guys exchanging data and OS protocols with each other.

2.) All cable operators hate the very mention of any subs using third party equipment for any of their programing, telephone, or on-line services. (This includes the very mention of the word, "Tivo," "Can I buy my own equipment?" and so on.)

3.) Perhaps in hindsight, TWC regretted not paying outside vendors for the updates. But it's too late in the project for them to go back to what they should have done. TWC should probably do the next best thing, but with the economy as it is, I don't see this happening any time soon. I was going to suggest the company paying outside software developers to design enhanced applets for future interactive services on Navigator, rather than have TWC develop it themselves, which the cable company does not have enough programmers and developers who are qualified to do that.

But as far as Navigator going away, hate to say this, but sorry, it's not happening.

Jack

Jack,

Did you even read the interview with TWC that I linked before going on your tirade? He admitted that both TWC hardware and Navigator are only going to be middle of the road.

He said TWC wants 3rd parties to develop hardware and software that can be used to retain high end subs.

I have re-linked it for you. :rolleyes:

http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=170180&site=cdn

Jack,

Did you even read the interview with TWC that I linked before going on your tirade? He admitted that both TWC hardware and Navigator are only going to be middle of the road.

He said TWC wants 3rd parties to develop hardware and software that can be used to retain high end subs.

I have re-linked it for you. :rolleyes:

http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=170180&site=cdn

Thanks!

But my experience with TWC over the last 20 years is they often don't do what they say they are going to do. I saw the article the first time. Unfortunately, I am not convinced that these changes will happen. Or at least that the changes will happen in the matter we would like.

Jack

PS. Actually, this is an expanded version of what I first saw. Thank you!

While I agree that historically cable companies were extremely averse to 3rd party hardware and software, I think that TiVo and others have convinced them that it is better to lose a little box revenue while still keeping people subscribed to digital cable, internet and phone than it is to lose them altogether to the combination of satellite and phone or u-verse/fios.

While I agree that historically cable companies were extremely averse to 3rd party hardware and software, I think that TiVo and others have convinced them that it is better to lose a little box revenue while still keeping people subscribed to digital cable, internet and phone than it is to lose them altogether to the combination of satellite and phone or u-verse/fios.

This is right on point. TWC is losing me day by day and one of the major reasons is the garbage hardware and software. Granted the lack of HD isn't helping, but that will come in time and much sooner than better hardware or software. I really want to try Navigator so I can see how it rates against the SARA I currently have, but that day is completely unknown. I fear, it will be little too late by the time TWC steps up and delivers. I feel they are content losing their tech savvy base to the competition and raising rates to offset the losses because they know they have a fixed market of people who aren't going anywhere.

This is right on point. TWC is losing me day by day and one of the major reasons is the garbage hardware and software. Granted the lack of HD isn't helping, but that will come in time and much sooner than better hardware or software. I really want to try Navigator so I can see how it rates against the SARA I currently have, but that day is completely unknown. I fear, it will be little too late by the time TWC steps up and delivers. I feel they are content losing their tech savvy base to the competition and raising rates to offset the losses because they know they have a fixed market of people who aren't going anywhere.

Trying to find out any information from TWC on a Sara to Navigator switchover is a complete waste of time.The CSR's either know nothing or will lie to your face.A e mail to them gets you a genetric reply.A phone call is a hour on hold and loss of time.Asking them online gets a call your home divison reply.If anyone has and more contact with TWC please let me know.They are useless.

Jack,

Did you even read the interview with TWC that I linked before going on your tirade? He admitted that both TWC hardware and Navigator are only going to be middle of the road.

He said TWC wants 3rd parties to develop hardware and software that can be used to retain high end subs.

I have re-linked it for you. :rolleyes:

http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=170180&site=cdn

The really sad thing is couple years ago TWC had opportunity to buy Passport and passed on it.Think where we all would have been if that what should have happened happened.

I may eat my words but as I stated earlier if the 75% of TWC subs who have SARA get Navigator and it is stable as SARA the booes on NAVIGATOR will go to cheers.Only a few sara subs have been exposed to passport and fewer Tivo.Navigator will be a breath of fresh air.Like I say if it's stable the TWC bad press will turn arround.Most of the bad press is because Passport users took a stept back.If SARAhad been the first Navigated I perdict their would have been a less lot complaints and more patience to let Navigator grow and become more stable because we would have gotton a fresher more feature rich guide.Havein both Navigator at my beach home and Sara at my main home I much perfer Navigator.

The big quetion is why has Time Warner not launched Navigator on SARA users?Must be a problem somewhere.They have announced two launch dates here in Greensboro and missed them both.Something is admiss.

The big quetion is why has Time Warner not launched Navigator on SARA users?Must be a problem somewhere.They have announced two launch dates here in Greensboro and missed them both.Something is admiss.

Are you sure that nobody has been migrated in your area to MDN? I think that our area was converted one or a few boxes at a time to avoid a run at the Time Warner Cable office when some boxes would inevitably fail to convert for some reason like the signal quality being too poor to support a program transfer on the carousel. TWC might be converting your boxes a few at a time, and also has the added complexity of having to make sure that legacy boxes get MDN, while boxes with CableCARDs get ODN and AXIOM.

Are you sure that nobody has been migrated in your area to MDN? I think that our area was converted one or a few boxes at a time to avoid a run at the Time Warner Cable office when some boxes would inevitably fail to convert for some reason like the signal quality being too poor to support a program transfer on the carousel. TWC might be converting your boxes a few at a time, and also has the added complexity of having to make sure that legacy boxes get MDN, while boxes with CableCARDs get ODN and AXIOM.

You never know but the local office said the launch had been pushed back with no new date given them.

The big quetion is why has Time Warner not launched Navigator on SARA users?Must be a problem somewhere.They have announced two launch dates here in Greensboro and missed them both.Something is admiss.

Ok, I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but can you please put a space between your sentences? Your posts give me headaches reading them.

Ok, I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but can you please put a space between your sentences? Your posts give me headaches reading them.

Have to agree Woody - are you posting from a mobile device or something?

xnappo

The unexpected delays of the SARA software conversion to Navigator, could be a blessing in disguise. TWC I am sure does not want the negative PR that they had with Navigator two years ago. Therefore, if there was a delay to work out some last minute bugs, this could be a good thing.

However, I understand the frustration for users like Ben, who would really like to evaluate the new Navigator soon before going to a dish system. Ben, have you considered a specific date for whether the carry-over is complete for you as a SARA user, you would go to a Satellite provider at that time? (Say for example, March 1st?) regardless of whether you have been converted to Navigator?

Jack

Sure have Jack. I think I'll give them until the end of May/1st week of June. I have two weeks vacation then and it would be the ideal time to switch over. The weather will be breaking so I can get my antenna put up and wiring done as well as have time to play with any other details. Unless they do something ... anything to keep me, I'm gone come that time frame. I'm sick of waiting and getting no answers or help whatsoever from them. I've tried contact numerous people at various levels of management and no one knows whats going on with anything.

IE: In the beginning of November TWC put out a flyer in the paper touting great new HD additions. Well, here we are coming up on February and nothing. We have actually lost content. I called to ask about it and was directed to the website "Where you can find the latest channel line up". REALLY?? Are you serious? That doesn't even answer the question I was asking. There is zero info on Navigator as well. I for one, am somewhat happy with the product, but am sick of playing the waiting game. On top of the fact that our market is stagnated, they are jacking (no pun intended Satch!) our rates by $4-$6 a month on Feb 1st!!! Now, if we get some worthwhile HD or something, I'll understand, but I'm not expecting much. Part of my disgust with TWC is the complete and utter lack of info as well as the ineptness of the CSR's. It's just getting to a point where I know DirecTV is going to cost more, possibly significantly more, but at least I know I'll have better equipment, better programming, better dissemination of info, and hopefully better service. I've also begun looking at Dish again with the announcement of the ViP922.

Ok, I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but can you please put a space between your sentences? Your posts give me headaches reading them.

I am pained you do not like my posts I will try to do better in the future to stall off your headaches. However I will try to post less so not to bother you.

Just to satisify my need to know. Has anyone in the Triad area of North Carolina received Navigator yet? Still on SARA here in Greensboro.

I'd love to know who has Navigator down that way. If I get the time off I requested this month, I'll be heading down through to Myrtle Beach for a week with stops along the way. Maybe I'll get a chance to see Navigator in action! At least then I'd have some idea what to be in store for.

I'd love to know who has Navigator down that way. If I get the time off I requested this month, I'll be heading down through to Myrtle Beach for a week with stops along the way. Maybe I'll get a chance to see Navigator in action! At least then I'd have some idea what to be in store for.

I believe that all the TW divisions in the Carolinas EXCEPT Greensboro/Triad are on Navigator. For sure Charlotte (my home), Raleigh (my son's home) & Wilmington (one of my TW buddies works there) do. Only 75% sure about the SC divisions. My daughter is heading back to her Greensboro apartment for spring semester today... I'll find out if she has been 'gatored yet.

I'll ask my Wilmington buddy about Myrtle Beach.

I just wish they'd roll it out here already. As mentioned by other members, I think the vast majority of SARA users here would find it to be a step up (assuming we got an up to date version). However, I do have a theory on why SARA divisions are not getting it. I don't think TWC has a version available for SARA yet! Let me explain: In order to do the upgrade they have to have a deployment program which will carry over everyones settings, DVR recordings, etc. It quite plausible that they don't have this ready or working yet and thus the hold up. It's easier to deploy Navigator to a virgin box, but quite another thing to download it successfully to boxes already in service. I'm at the point where I'd even trade in my current box for a Navigatored one. Worst case scenario is I hate it and switch anyhow!

Nevertheless, I'm hoping I get to see it in action during my travels just for comparison purposes!

I believe that all the TW divisions in the Carolinas EXCEPT Greensboro/Triad are on Navigator. For sure Charlotte (my home), Raleigh (my son's home) & Wilmington (one of my TW buddies works there) do. Only 75% sure about the SC divisions. My daughter is heading back to her Greensboro apartment for spring semester today... I'll find out if she has been 'gatored yet.

I'll ask my Wilmington buddy about Myrtle Beach.

We have Navigator at our beach house at Emerald Isle but still on Sara here in Greensboro.

I just wish they'd roll it out here already. As mentioned by other members, I think the vast majority of SARA users here would find it to be a step up (assuming we got an up to date version). However, I do have a theory on why SARA divisions are not getting it. I don't think TWC has a version available for SARA yet! Let me explain: In order to do the upgrade they have to have a deployment program which will carry over everyones settings, DVR recordings, etc. It quite plausible that they don't have this ready or working yet and thus the hold up. It's easier to deploy Navigator to a virgin box, but quite another thing to download it successfully to boxes already in service. I'm at the point where I'd even trade in my current box for a Navigatored one. Worst case scenario is I hate it and switch anyhow!

Nevertheless, I'm hoping I get to see it in action during my travels just for comparison purposes!
PS I much prefer Navigator over Sara.

I was wondering if anyone has either seen or has Navigator on the new Samsung boxes? (Both DVR and Standard units?) Is it better than the sporadic performance reported on the traditional SA boxes and DVR's? Riverside Guy told us his Aunt had a Navigator, non-DVR Samsung box with a major flaw of the channel banner not going away unless EXIT was pressed. However, this behavior bug was not reported to be widespread.

Any updates for info with these boxes?

Jack

I'm in Summerfield (just outside of Greensboro) and still no sign of Navigator here, either. I switched over from DirecTV last month and absolutely HATE the interface for recording shows as compared to DTV. I love the on demand stuff and my internet speed is much improved, but the lack of keyboard function (typing in a show's name) completely sucks.

I'm in Summerfield (just outside of Greensboro) and still no sign of Navigator here, either. I switched over from DirecTV last month and absolutely HATE the interface for recording shows as compared to DTV. I love the on demand stuff and my internet speed is much improved, but the lack of keyboard function (typing in a show's name) completely sucks.

Navigator has keyboard search. It does lack keyword search but it's a way lot better than the non existant search on sara. I think you will find Navigator a lot closer to passport than sara ever was. The only thing I really liked about sara was it was dead reliable. Only one missed recording in four years.

Is their any news yet on keyword search being added to the next version of Navigator. Also any news on a manua l recording feature for Navigator.

My daughter is heading back to her Greensboro apartment for spring semester today... I'll find out if she has been 'gatored yet.

Nope. (Wendover/Bridford area)

I was wondering if anyone has either seen or has Navigator on the new Samsung boxes? (Both DVR and Standard units?) Is it better than the sporadic performance reported on the traditional SA boxes and DVR's? Riverside Guy told us his Aunt had a Navigator, non-DVR Samsung box with a major flaw of the channel banner not going away unless EXIT was pressed. However, this behavior bug was not reported to be widespread.

Any updates for info with these boxes?

Jack

Supposedly the 3090 should be deployed in the NY market any time now from what I've read here... but we DO have a dilemma. Again from what I've read here, our market may be the LAST to get our 8300HD boxes switched from passport to MDN. So once they DO start deploying them, it's going to be 3090 ODN vs. 8300HD Passport.

At this point in time, my "choice" is based on the general state of ODN vs. a very workable Passport that has it's own issues (the bug when using an external drive has me not using one because I'm so dependent on how I use my buffers and the work-around hasn't seemed to work for me).

I'm hoping one of the more technically savvy guys who hang in the NY thread get one of the 3090s... that way we'd get pretty good feedback.

In any case, this is all based on what others have stated on AVS... not what TWC has committed to.

Well, I think I've pretty much decided that I will be switching providers. Once again the wife recorded a show in SD instead of HD. This is an ongoing issue and it drives me batty. Since Navigator doesn't/won't offer a way to "Show HD Only" or otherwise customize the guide it is pointless to wait it out just to try Navigator. Since our channels assignments are all over the place I'm sure this will remain an issue even once Navigator is deployed.

I am going to attempt to block these SD channels and see if that gets the message across, but it seems like a dumb option. So, I'm officially at the point where I will spend a chuck more to get features and better channel selection from D* or E* than stay with TW.

It means if TWC deploys tru2way CableCards, you would have a ViP922 with Slingbox and DISH Networks DVR Software! No more Navigator! You would have the guide I pictured above with all the features of that box. It would be one of the first major salvos in third party hardware.

The guide data, etc, would be downloaded from TWC's headend, but the box would run it's own software. Same thing if Tivo releases a tru2way box. This was the original vision of the OCAP platform. IE: Open Cable where customers aren't forced to rent a set top from the provider.

WRONG!!!!

CableCards are conditional access devices. They have nothing to do with tru2way. As for Dish ViP922 like box... If and that's a very big if, TWC deploys Dish's tru2way box they will NOT deploy Dish's guide. You'll get TWC Navigator on your tru2way box. Whether you like it or not....

tru2way is a middleware stack that runs on any 3rd party set-top and allows a particular cable company to deploy their Guide/Navigator on 3rd party devices. The advantage for the cable company is that they can have a single guide platform and run it on any tru2way device. As far as customer is concerned he/she still stuck with a cable company's guide.

tru2way was never meant to give customers a choice of what IPG to run, it meant to "open up" a market to CE manufacturers to enter cable TV market and let cable companies to write once (software) and deploy everywhere. Customer considerations were never in equation.

Well, I think I've pretty much decided that I will be switching providers. Once again the wife recorded a show in SD instead of HD. This is an ongoing issue and it drives me batty. Since Navigator doesn't/won't offer a way to "Show HD Only" or otherwise customize the guide it is pointless to wait it out just to try Navigator. Since our channels assignments are all over the place I'm sure this will remain an issue even once Navigator is deployed.

I am going to attempt to block these SD channels and see if that gets the message across, but it seems like a dumb option. So, I'm officially at the point where I will spend a chuck more to get features and better channel selection from D* or E* than stay with TW.

I was with you on this, but I still cannot rely on DirecTV installers or their INDIA based customer service (as good as automated answering service, at least you understand those). All I have been reading about was how they mounted dish on the ground (so they could sweep the snow off of it easily) or how they were planning to buy dish heater, or how the dude did not ground it/screw it properly, etc.. I am telling you that all this time with cable I never had any service problems. I am not trying to steer you away from switching, but please think it over, because I currently am doing just that.

PS: Today I stopped by RadioShack, they had Dish DVR there, and the interface was so responsive, I almost wept.

Again, just think it through and then make your decision about switching. The flexibility of having Time Warner Store just 10 minutes from my house, being able to swap cable box when there is something wrong with it, and the confidence of having service brought by actual physical cable makes me worry bit about the service I would get from DirecTV or Dish.

I will be going back to Time Warner this week or latest this weekend with my box, and I will ask them to give me older box with Passport software, I will take my chance. If they give me that box, I will stay with TWC and sign 2 year agreement which will lock my price, plus will give me $4 discount. If I cannot get Passport, I will go back to drawing board and start thinking about If I really want to switch.

Well, I think I've pretty much decided that I will be switching providers. Once again the wife recorded a show in SD instead of HD. This is an ongoing issue and it drives me batty. Since Navigator doesn't/won't offer a way to "Show HD Only" or otherwise customize the guide it is pointless to wait it out just to try Navigator. Since our channels assignments are all over the place I'm sure this will remain an issue even once Navigator is deployed.

I am going to attempt to block these SD channels and see if that gets the message across, but it seems like a dumb option. So, I'm officially at the point where I will spend a chuck more to get features and better channel selection from D* or E* than stay with TW.

Navigator does allow you to put your favorites first in the onscreen guide. Do as I have. Put all the hd channels as first channels in the guide. When you do that you hit your favorite button and only hd channels come up. PS when you look at your onscreen guide all the HD channels will be the first in the guide.

I was with on this, but I still cannot rely on DirecTV installers, and their INDIA based customer service (as good as automated answering service, at least you understand those). All I have been reading about was how they mounted dish on the ground or how they were planning to buy dish heater, or how the dude did not ground it/screw it properly, etc.. I am telling you that all this time with cable I never had any service problems. I am not trying to steer you away from switching, but please think it over, because I currently am doing just that.

PS: Today I stopped by RadioShack, they had Dish DVR there, and the interface was so responsive, I almost wept.

Again, just think it through and then make your decision about switching. The flexibility of having Time Warner Store just 10 minutes from my house, being able to swap cable box when there is something wrong with it, and the confidence of having service brought by actual physical cable makes me worry bit about the service I would get from DirecTV or Dish.

I will be going back to Time Warner this week or latest this weekend with my box, and I will ask them to give me older box with Passport software, I will take my chance. If they give me that box, I will stay with TWC and sign 2 year agreement which will lock my price, plus will give me $4 discount. If I cannot get Passport, I will go back to drawing board and start thinking about If I really want to switch.

If you paid attention to the news, you might have heard that the biggest Indian IT outsourcerer, Satyam Computer Services, turned out to have fraudulently inflated its profits and the amount of money in the bank to the tune of the Indian equivalent of one billion dollars and is now being called "India's Enron". Maybe you might get another call center sometime soon because Satyam might go bankrupt before the Indian government can arrange a bailout. India's government cannot arrange a bailout until it knows how much one costs, because that government needs to know how much money Satyam really has. According to news reports, such a restatement might take months to prepare because accountants have to go through Satyam's books and sort the truth from the fiction.

In short, there is a possibility that you might get another call center later on if this one goes out of business.

WRONG!!!!

CableCards are conditional access devices. They have nothing to do with tru2way. As for Dish ViP922 like box... If and that's a very big if, TWC deploys Dish's tru2way box they will NOT deploy Dish's guide. You'll get TWC Navigator on your tru2way box. Whether you like it or not....

tru2way is a middleware stack that runs on any 3rd party set-top and allows a particular cable company to deploy their Guide/Navigator on 3rd party devices. The advantage for the cable company is that they can have a single guide platform and run it on any tru2way device. As far as customer is concerned he/she still stuck with a cable company's guide.

tru2way was never meant to give customers a choice of what IPG to run, it meant to "open up" a market to CE manufacturers to enter cable TV market and let cable companies to write once (software) and deploy everywhere. Customer considerations were never in equation.

xela19115,

Tivo has made a deal with tru2way and cablelabs to allow a Tivo mode and a cable mode. Tivo mode would still get SDV and all the tivo features and at the same time have a cable mode for all your cableco stuff. Dish might do the same thing.

Yes, preliminary reports are saying that the Dish box would run it's own software needing the cablecard only to decode SDV and provide authorization for PPV. I'll try to dig up the article where I read that.

I'm fully aware that the bulk of third party cable boxes will just be end user owned units that download whatever the cable company is running, but this article stated Echostar was hoping to work out a deal to be a licensed third party alternative such as Tivo. However, they also mentioned that due to the animosity between cable and satellite companies that this might not fly. Even though Echostar is trying to keep its third party devices separate, they are still branding them with the Dish Network logo (IE: my digital to analog converter and the OTA DVR) so cable companies are balking at the idea.

xela19115,

Tivo has made a deal with tru2way and cablelabs to allow a Tivo mode and a cable mode. Tivo mode would still get SDV and all the tivo features and at the same time have a cable mode for all your cableco stuff. Dish might do the same thing.

Don't bet your farm on it.

Only Comcast so far has a deal deploying Tivo software on their set-tops. TWC did not make a deal. As for tru2way, at the risk of repeating myself, its for cable companies not for the end customers benefit.

As far as 3rd party set-tops like Tivo are concerned in order for them to get SDV they'll need a tuning resolver which is not a conditional access device (a.k.a CableCARD) nor its a tru2way box.

WRONG!!!!

CableCards are conditional access devices. They have nothing to do with tru2way. As for Dish ViP922 like box... If and that's a very big if, TWC deploys Dish's tru2way box they will NOT deploy Dish's guide. You'll get TWC Navigator on your tru2way box. Whether you like it or not....

tru2way is a middleware stack that runs on any 3rd party set-top and allows a particular cable company to deploy their Guide/Navigator on 3rd party devices. The advantage for the cable company is that they can have a single guide platform and run it on any tru2way device. As far as customer is concerned he/she still stuck with a cable company's guide.

tru2way was never meant to give customers a choice of what IPG to run, it meant to "open up" a market to CE manufacturers to enter cable TV market and let cable companies to write once (software) and deploy everywhere. Customer considerations were never in equation.

Actually you are wrong and you should do your homework before calling people out. What you wrote may have been true at one time, but the memorandum of understanding signed last summer changed the ballgame. Instead of re-hashing every point why don't you re-read the last two pages of this thread. I have listed the highlights below.

1. Dish wants to offer the ViP 922 as a tru2way retail device to consumers.

2. The memorandum of understanding signed last summer allows 3rd party guides(i.e. not Navigator)

3. TWC said they WANT 3rd parties to develop better hardware and software than they can on their own.

Here are a few other highlights of the memorandum of understanding, as detailed in the filing:

# On-screen navigation display: "Multifunction IDCPs"(this could be the ViP 922) are allowed to overlay the manufacturer's navigation control method over cable screens so long as the overlay is user-initiated for each use, is solely for navigation (i.e. there are no advertisements), is transitory, and appears the same regardless of the channel. Recent tweaks to tru2way, for example, allow for some forthcoming DVRs from TiVo Inc. (Nasdaq: TIVO - message board) to toggle between its navigation system and the operator's native guide. (See TiVo à la Mode .)

http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=156273&site=cdn

Hey thanks, I couldn't find that article. I had another too where Dish stated they wanted to offer their own support and upgrades via Ethernet connection.

Here (http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/01/08/echostar-to-announce-slingloaded-tru2way-box-with-this-spring/) is the announcement (which was on the downlow) about it being independent of cable guide software.

I wasn't about to start a flame war.

Well, I think I've pretty much decided that I will be switching providers. Once again the wife recorded a show in SD instead of HD. This is an ongoing issue and it drives me batty. I think I'd start considering switching wives.:D

My kids do the same thing. Apparently some people can't see the difference between SD and HD? It boggles the mind?!?!?

However, my major point is that this SHOULD be a feature in the guide software!!! Every competing provider has some way to tweak the guide for this without blocking or making a favorites list - those are not options, they are work arounds! I scoped D* out tonight at a friends house and was impressed to see it on an H23. While TW, D* and E* all have things I want it is going to come down to a compromise between the three. No one provider offers everything I want. If D* would merge with E* and keep E*'s equipment I'd be in TV heaven, but that's unlikely.

Mine routinely records the SD instead of the digital or HD versions as well, but I think her excuse is "it sounds better over the headphones" [RF; connected to the SA8300HD analog stereo RCA plugs].

v/r,
C-F

Actually you are wrong and you should do your homework before calling people out. What you wrote may have been true at one time, but the memorandum of understanding signed last summer changed the ballgame. Instead of re-hashing every point why don't you re-read the last two pages of this thread. I have listed the highlights below.

1. Dish wants to offer the ViP 922 as a tru2way retail device to consumers.

2. The memorandum of understanding signed last summer allows 3rd party guides(i.e. not Navigator)

3. TWC said they WANT 3rd parties to develop better hardware and software than they can on their own.

Here are a few other highlights of the memorandum of understanding, as detailed in the filing:

# On-screen navigation display: "Multifunction IDCPs"(this could be the ViP 922) are allowed to overlay the manufacturer's navigation control method over cable screens so long as the overlay is user-initiated for each use, is solely for navigation (i.e. there are no advertisements), is transitory, and appears the same regardless of the channel. Recent tweaks to tru2way, for example, allow for some forthcoming DVRs from TiVo Inc. (Nasdaq: TIVO - message board) to toggle between its navigation system and the operator's native guide. (See TiVo à la Mode .)

http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=156273&site=cdn

Not meant to offend people here but I how large cable companies work and know how things work from internal point of view so I will believe it when I see it. And IF TWC will allow Dish or Tivo tru2way STB to be deployed on their network don't be surprised if that fancy Dish or Tivo guide gets blown away and flashed by ODN.

WRONG!!!!

CableCards are conditional access devices. They have nothing to do with tru2way. As for Dish ViP922 like box... If and that's a very big if, TWC deploys Dish's tru2way box they will NOT deploy Dish's guide. You'll get TWC Navigator on your tru2way box. Whether you like it or not....

tru2way is a middleware stack that runs on any 3rd party set-top and allows a particular cable company to deploy their Guide/Navigator on 3rd party devices. The advantage for the cable company is that they can have a single guide platform and run it on any tru2way device. As far as customer is concerned he/she still stuck with a cable company's guide.

tru2way was never meant to give customers a choice of what IPG to run, it meant to "open up" a market to CE manufacturers to enter cable TV market and let cable companies to write once (software) and deploy everywhere. Customer considerations were never in equation.

My understanding is that cable cards are essentially authorization devices. As in a customer needs one to "allow" the MSO to open the channels they subscribe to. Further, up until now, they were still one way devices. Now they have "M-cards" which are for multiple tuners and also are two way.

Assuming I have it right, wouldn't that make M-cards and tru2way to be functionally equivalent?

M-Cards are an essential ingredient of tru2way, but not the whole story. tru2way is a complete package of specs, negotiated between CableLabs and CE companies, that define what and how CE systems can be built around the M-card.

My understanding is that cable cards are essentially authorization devices. As in a customer needs one to "allow" the MSO to open the channels they subscribe to. Further, up until now, they were still one way devices. Now they have "M-cards" which are for multiple tuners and also are two way.

Assuming I have it right, wouldn't that make M-cards and tru2way to be functionally equivalent?

You are correct in that the CableCARDs are conditional access devices, i.e. they let MSO to authorize your CableCARD host device to view the packages you subscribed to. CableCARDs, whether S-Card or M-Card, were always 2-way. The host devices were unidirectional. A tru2way host devices should be 2-way. S-Card allows for decryption of a single stream and M-Card allows to decrypt up to 6 streams simultaneously.

The OCAP or tru2way is a middleware/platform software that is developed by a STB vendor to a common spec that is issued by CableLabs (which is a consortium of cable companies). The OCAP essentially allows MSO to create an OCAP guide/navigator (which is written in Java) once and theoretically run it on any OCAP device. A cable company would not need to port their guide/navigator on every single piece of hardware individually thus saving significant amount of money while providing a single, common branded user experience across their footprint all while having a more diverse marketplace for the set-top devices thus significantly reducing the prices on set-tops from Motorola and SA thus reducing their capex. And if customer shells their own dollar and buys their own OCAP STB/TV even better. The MSO wouldn't need to worry about servicing the device.

The OCAP from the start was really never about the end user it was designed and spec'd by MSO's for the MSO's and not for the users. The cable companies will and should decide how to run their network and business. The MSO and not the user should decide what guide/navigator/application are allowed to run on their network because if the application misbehaves it can affect everyone on a cable plant and cause a lot of problems.

I'm not trying to criticize cable companies or CE/STB vendors. The OCAP is about business; nothing more, nothing less. I'm just trying to explain and clear up some confusion on part of forum users.

Navigator does allow you to put your favorites first in the onscreen guide. Do as I have. Put all the hd channels as first channels in the guide. When you do that you hit your favorite button and only hd channels come up. PS when you look at your onscreen guide all the HD channels will be the first in the guide.

That is a great idea for anyone looking to prioritize their HD channels in the Navigator Guide.

Jack

It's a good work around, but I would really prefer actual guide customization.

That is a great idea for anyone looking to prioritize their HD channels in the Navigator Guide.

Jack

I thought I would share this additional with you guys:

PLEASE READ THIS WHOLE POST BEFORE DOING THIS AND NOTE MY SIDE-NOTE:

IF YOU HAVE AN HD SET AND AN HD CABLE BOX, WITH THE NAVIGATOR GUIDE, HERE IS HOW TO SET IT UP SO THAT HD CONTENT SHOWS FIRST IN THE GUIDE.

1.) Make a list of all of your Favorite Channels.

2.) CLEAR YOUR EXISTING FAVORITES by going under SETTINGS and SET UP FAVORITES. Than select CLEAR ALL. (This will clear all your Favorite Channels from the guide by removing the stars next to each of them. If you don't do this step, Favorites will simply be added in numerical order.)

3.) After Clearing your Favorites, go to the Set Up Favorites and rapid page scroll up/down (using the Page +/- key) to get to the channels in the your HDrange

4.) Mark each HD range channel that you want to be listed as a favorite. Finish any and each HD channel that you want to be a favorite. Exit out.

5.) Under Favorite Channels, select "Sort By Favorites" HD channels should now be listed first in the guide.

SIDENOTE: Note sure if adding adding SD channels after all HD channels have been favored will put those SD channels in sequential order or not. But the point is, if you follow steps 1-5, you can get to your HD channels quickly and in an organized way.

Any problems or issues with this, please post!

Jack

I thought I would share this additional with you guys:

PLEASE READ THIS WHOLE POST BEFORE DOING THIS AND NOTE MY SIDE-NOTE:

IF YOU HAVE AN HD SET AND AN HD CABLE BOX, WITH THE NAVIGATOR GUIDE, HERE IS HOW TO SET IT UP SO THAT HD CONTENT SHOWS FIRST IN THE GUIDE.

1.) Make a list of all of your Favorite Channels.

2.) CLEAR YOUR EXISTING FAVORITES by going under SETTINGS and SET UP FAVORITES. Than select CLEAR ALL. (This will clear all your Favorite Channels from the guide by removing the stars next to each of them. If you don't do this step, Favorites will simply be added in numerical order.)

3.) After Clearing your Favorites, go to the Set Up Favorites and rapid page scroll up/down (using the Page +/- key) to get to the channels in the your HDrange

4.) Mark each HD range channel that you want to be listed as a favorite. Finish any and each HD channel that you want to be a favorite. Exit out.

5.) Under Favorite Channels, select "Sort By Favorites" HD channels should now be listed first in the guide.

SIDENOTE: Note sure if adding adding SD channels after all HD channels have been favored will put those SD channels in sequential order or not. But the point is, if you follow steps 1-5, you can get to your HD channels quickly and in an organized way.

Any problems or issues with this, please post!

Jack

I use this method at my beach house and it works to a charm. Do not think I have added and SD channels yet so I cannnot say how they list in the fav first list. Will try to find out next time I am at my beach house.

I use this method at my beach house and it works to a charm. Do not think I have added and SD channels yet so I cannnot say how they list in the fav first list. Will try to find out next time I am at my beach house.

You first get favorite channels sorted numerically (so SD and HD may be mixed up), then you get all channels, again sorted numerically; favorite channels will show again.

Just wondering if anyone can answer my questions.

My picture freezes in a tiny preview window when exiting the guide, and the only solution is a reboot. I was an early adopter of Mystro, I've had this box for about 8-9 months. I have an 8300HDC, with OCAP Terminal and Mystro which really confuses me. I thought there was just ODN or MDN? Anyway, I have seen pictures of a newer Time Warner ( we have brighthouse in indy ) Navigator software, and was wondering if I could get that? http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/2/7013.jpgThey are coming out to do a box switch tomorrow, is there anything I should know? I used to have an 8300HD with SARA, but I don't want SARA again. Will they replace this with another HDC? I don't use cablecard.

What about the 8550HDC?

All my inquiries to TWC (up the food chain) have gone unanswered or answered with basic canned responses. No one in my division has a clue whats going on with either new hardware or Navigator. As of right now, we are stuck with SARA and a stagnate HD lineup.

Just wondering if anyone can answer my questions.

My picture freezes in a tiny preview window when exiting the guide, and the only solution is a reboot. I was an early adopter of Mystro, I've had this box for about 8-9 months. I have an 8300HDC, with OCAP Terminal and Mystro which really confuses me. I thought there was just ODN or MDN? Anyway, I have seen pictures of a newer Time Warner ( we have brighthouse in indy ) Navigator software, and was wondering if I could get that? http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/2/7013.jpgThey are coming out to do a box switch tomorrow, is there anything I should know? I used to have an 8300HD with SARA, but I don't want SARA again. Will they replace this with another HDC? I don't use cablecard.

What about the 8550HDC?

Greetings,

Most likely, you will get another HDC box with Navigator. They have recently began converting the C boxes to Navigator 3 in some divisions. (The new version on MDN you see in that pic from the San Diego forums.) You will get whatever version is coming down from the head-end at the time of box activation. How long have you had the freezing picture window when exiting the guide? Have you also tried unplugging this box for about 10 minutes than plugging it back in (i.e cold reboot) to see if that solves the problem? I had that on a box years ago, as well as the Pin Number screens freezing when in the guide. Two boxes had the same problems and they swapped them out for a different model.

I hope you get someone with a brain. If you sense they are half-assed intelligent, (a 50/50 shot) you can ask the cable guy what are the latest model boxes in your division? You will either get another 8300 HDC, an 8500 HDC, or the new Samsung box. (Don't know Samsung model numbers) I don't think a lot of TWC/Brighthouse divisions have the new Samsung boxes yet.

They might also do things like signal strength and line tests including amp levels at the drop pole that comes into your house. But as this appears to be a box issue, they will swap it. Note that unfortunately, all settings will be reverted to factory defaults on the new box so you will have to go into Settings to change your preferences. Total activation of the box for On-Demand channels, and Caller ID on TV (if you have Digital Phone Service) may take a 4-12 (on average, sometimes longer) hours or so before those services come back as that amount of time is needed for activation at the head-end. Boxes are activated each day on a first-come first serve basis. Often times this can even be done in minutes. It seems that the Caller ID on TV takes the longest to reactivate on a new box. But if you are not a Digital Phone customer and/or Caller ID on TV is not available in your division, this does not apply to you.

Good luck!

Jack

Just wondering if anyone can answer my questions.

My picture freezes in a tiny preview window when exiting the guide, and the only solution is a reboot. I was an early adopter of Mystro, I've had this box for about 8-9 months. I have an 8300HDC, with OCAP Terminal and Mystro which really confuses me. I thought there was just ODN or MDN? Anyway, I have seen pictures of a newer Time Warner ( we have brighthouse in indy ) Navigator software, and was wondering if I could get that? http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/2/7013.jpgThey are coming out to do a box switch tomorrow, is there anything I should know? I used to have an 8300HD with SARA, but I don't want SARA again. Will they replace this with another HDC? I don't use cablecard.

What about the 8550HDC?The problem you describe sounds like an old Navigator bug with HDMI connections (solved with the most recent release). I seem to recall that Brighthand tends to be behind on releases.

If memory serves, the window could be corrected by turning PIP on and off and/or tuning to stations with different resolutions. The problem was also avoided by using component cables.

Just wondering if anyone can answer my questions.

My picture freezes in a tiny preview window when exiting the guide, and the only solution is a reboot. I was an early adopter of Mystro, I've had this box for about 8-9 months. I have an 8300HDC, with OCAP Terminal and Mystro which really confuses me. I thought there was just ODN or MDN? Anyway, I have seen pictures of a newer Time Warner ( we have brighthouse in indy ) Navigator software, and was wondering if I could get that? http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/2/7013.jpgThey are coming out to do a box switch tomorrow, is there anything I should know? I used to have an 8300HD with SARA, but I don't want SARA again. Will they replace this with another HDC? I don't use cablecard.

What about the 8550HDC?

Is this the first example of a SARA market implementing Navigator? I know it's Brighthouse, not TWC, but it's still relevant.

Greetings,

Most likely, you will get another HDC box with Navigator. They have recently began converting the C boxes to Navigator 3 in some divisions. (The new version on MDN you see in that pic from the San Diego forums.) You will get whatever version is coming down from the head-end at the time of box activation. How long have you had the freezing picture window when exiting the guide? Have you also tried unplugging this box for about 10 minutes than plugging it back in (i.e cold reboot) to see if that solves the problem? I had that on a box years ago, as well as the Pin Number screens freezing when in the guide. Two boxes had the same problems and they swapped them out for a different model.

I hope you get someone with a brain. If you sense they are half-assed intelligent, (a 50/50 shot) you can ask the cable guy what are the latest model boxes in your division? You will either get another 8300 HDC, an 8500 HDC, or the new Samsung box. (Don't know Samsung model numbers) I don't think a lot of TWC/Brighthouse divisions have the new Samsung boxes yet.

They might also do things like signal strength and line tests including amp levels at the drop pole that comes into your house. But as this appears to be a box issue, they will swap it. Note that unfortunately, all settings will be reverted to factory defaults on the new box so you will have to go into Settings to change your preferences. Total activation of the box for On-Demand channels, and Caller ID on TV (if you have Digital Phone Service) may take a 4-12 (on average, sometimes longer) hours or so before those services come back as that amount of time is needed for activation at the head-end. Boxes are activated each day on a first-come first serve basis. Often times this can even be done in minutes. It seems that the Caller ID on TV takes the longest to reactivate on a new box. But if you are not a Digital Phone customer and/or Caller ID on TV is not available in your division, this does not apply to you.

Good luck!

Jack

Just wondering if anyone can answer my questions.

My picture freezes in a tiny preview window when exiting the guide, and the only solution is a reboot. I was an early adopter of Mystro, I've had this box for about 8-9 months. I have an 8300HDC, with OCAP Terminal and Mystro which really confuses me. I thought there was just ODN or MDN? Anyway, I have seen pictures of a newer Time Warner ( we have brighthouse in indy ) Navigator software, and was wondering if I could get that? http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/2/7013.jpgThey are coming out to do a box switch tomorrow, is there anything I should know? I used to have an 8300HD with SARA, but I don't want SARA again. Will they replace this with another HDC? I don't use cablecard.

What about the 8550HDC?

TWC and Brighthouse will deploy Samsung SMT-H3090 DVR's. They do HD and are black. They are sexier but run the same old ODN software. I have the ODN version with that revised scheme and it's ok. The channel bar looks a lot like MDN when they upgraded ODN to 3.1.0_7. Now it's 3.1.0_11. They did destroy eSATA for some reason. The HDC's do use Cable Cards since the FCC requires cableco's to deploy boxes that use separable security. The HD boxes will probably run MDN which has also been upgraded to that version. You'll get what they have. They must test these things before it goes out to the consumers. Bob Barlow the president of our TWC division says that employees test the software before it gets rolled out.

Thanks for the input! Most of the service guys in our area are pretty knowledgeable, and I'll be sure to ask. I don't know about the deployment of Navigator, but I do think we are behind from what I can tell by reading these forums. I was an early adopter of Navigator, and at the time I believe they were only able to supply ODN in my area. ODN is still fine with me, I'm indifferent, but it would be nice to get a new box from the service guy. The 8300HDC is just really slow and buggy, plus it looks like something straight out of 2000. Hopefully I get the 8550HDC or the Samsung box. I am not sure I will get new hardware though, I don't know how our local branch operates, but I don't think we get the newest hardware right away.

Thanks for the input! Most of the service guys in our area are pretty knowledgeable, and I'll be sure to ask. I don't know about the deployment of Navigator, but I do think we are behind from what I can tell by reading these forums. I was an early adopter of Navigator, and at the time I believe they were only able to supply ODN in my area. ODN is still fine with me, I'm indifferent, but it would be nice to get a new box from the service guy. The 8300HDC is just really slow and buggy, plus it looks like something straight out of 2000. Hopefully I get the 8550HDC or the Samsung box. I am not sure I will get new hardware though, I don't know how our local branch operates, but I don't think we get the newest hardware right away.

Let us know what happens!

Jack

Really, I'd loveto hear how theh 8550 performs or for that matter anything beyond the 8300 series!

I've got TWNYC coming out Sunday to look at my box. 8300HDC. Tried to DVR 4 shows last night. 3 hrs of lost. American Idol and CSI NY.

1st hour of Lost recorded completely but kept freezing on playback. 2 hr premier of Lost DVR said it was recording 9-11 stopped at min 46 also freezing and herky playback. CSI and AI were almost unwatchable because they kept freezing.

I've had numerous dropouts of sound and video, pixelation on many channels, freezing playbacks, FF and rewind functions not working correctly. Really am sick of their lousy service and equipment.

Well, the technician is here right now. Doesn't look like the brightest of all individuals, but he seems to know what he's talking about. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like a new box is in my future.

Scratch that. The technician found a splitter that was connected the wrong way, and said that was causing all of my problems. Now, my TV is back to 720p instead of 1080i, and the picture just froze again.

Do the new boxes solve these issues? Brighthouse can't seem to push software updates to our boxes.

Hahaha, is he there now? Take a picture! :) Anyway, didn't you have a TWC service center or retail around you? You could have just taken the box back to them and get it replaced. Don't they do that in your area?

We do have a service center on our side of town. I called and confused the woman working there, she talked with her supervisor who told me that changing the channels fixes the problem. (switching from HD to SD and back) I said that won't work, and I started asking about the new boxes. She said that new software would "hopefully" fix the issue in a few weeks. I thought that new boxes usually had the latest software on them? Anyway, according to both her and her supervisor, a new box wouldn't fix my issues.

I had similar problems, with blacked out channels on my old backs, and lack of On Demand (could not handshake or something), then I realized the splitter (which I paid $15 for) was the problem. I removed it (I was splitting so I could watch basic channels on my TV while I was recording two things) it started working fine, but the box problems were still there (asking me to format, read error, this recording is not available now, etc..)
So yeah, splitters cause all sort of issues.

Scratch that. The technician found a splitter that was connected the wrong way, and said that was causing all of my problems. Now, my TV is back to 720p instead of 1080i, and the picture just froze again.

Do the new boxes solve these issues? Brighthouse can't seem to push software updates to our boxes.

So you got a new box? Is he still there? Are you using HDMI cable? You should disconnect the HDMI cable, and switch to component cables, which could solve the picture freezing problems. For video settings, I would just enable all resolutions. Navigator at least is supposed to auto select the best resolution when changing channels. I am starting to think that the picture freezing really is a result of using HDMI cable on an old version of Navigator who's bugs have not been fixed in your area. In this case, it may not be "the box," but the old version of Navigator that is buggy with HDMI cables. Brighthouse must really be behind the times with Navigator updates. Most version of 2 fixed the HDMI bug quite a while back.

Jack

No, didn't get new hardware, yes, using HDMI, don't have any component ports free. I don't like to enable all resolutions because it makes the TV flicker each time you change a channel, Navigator tries to auto-select but fails. Brighthouse is always behind on updates, and while I figured new hardware wouldn't solve my problem, maybe it would have a newer version of the software. I heard somewhere that Brighthouse had the 8550 and the Samsung boxes with ODN 3, but I never verified. I was hoping that I could get one of the shiny new boxes with version 3, and the 16:9 guide, faster processor, etc.

Another thing I don't understand:

I currently have an 8300HDC, which is OCAP, correct? I should be running ODN? When I boot my box, I have Mystro show up instead. Am I running MDN?

I'll be getting a new box either way, this one that I have looks like a re-furb and there are some pretty nasty dents in it. I just thought I could kill two birds with one stone and skip the software upgrade.

No, didn't get new hardware, yes, using HDMI, don't have any component ports free. I don't like to enable all resolutions because it makes the TV flicker each time you change a channel, Navigator tries to auto-select but fails. Brighthouse is always behind on updates, and while I figured new hardware wouldn't solve my problem, maybe it would have a newer version of the software. I heard somewhere that Brighthouse had the 8550 and the Samsung boxes with ODN 3, but I never verified. I was hoping that I could get one of the shiny new boxes with version 3, and the 16:9 guide, faster processor, etc.

Another thing I don't understand:

I currently have an 8300HDC, which is OCAP, correct? I should be running ODN? When I boot my box, I have Mystro show up instead. Am I running MDN?

I'll be getting a new box either way, this one that I have looks like a re-furb and there are some pretty nasty dents in it. I just thought I could kill two birds with one stone and skip the software upgrade.

You are running ODN, which displays the Mystro logo when you boot. MDN cannot run on an 8300HDC.

Any ideas about updates coming to the Indy area? My technician told me they were planning a "major update" in a few weeks. Maybe ODN 3?

I just got into the diagnostic menu. I am also running 2.4_10_11. What's the deal? Shouldn't the HDMI bug be fixed in this update?

I just got into the diagnostic menu. I am also running 2.4_10_11. What's the deal? Shouldn't the HDMI bug be fixed in this update?

You are about three versions behind, (at least two.) Before, we got Navigator 3, were were on something like version 2.7.x.x (I have MDN.) Not sure what the last version before 3 was for OCAP. Brighthouse is the sister company of TWC, so my guess is that they often wait in the wings to see how other updates affect customers before applying them to their Florida and Indiana networks. You have these options:

1.) Somehow find room in your existing configuration to replace your HDMI cables with conventional coaxial cables.

2.) Wait for any Navigator updates to see if that solves the problem.

3.) Get a newer box. BUT BEFORE YOU DO THAT OPTION, DO THE HDMI REPLACEMENT TO COAXIAL CABLE FIRST ON YOUR EXISTING BOX. I don't think you'll notice that big of a difference in picture quality and if that solves the problem, you're all set. (You can always go back to HDMI after Navigator 3. gets downloaded to your box.)

4.) If you have tried all the above:

a.) Replaced the HDMI cable with conventional cable
b.) Gotten the update to Navigator

And you still have the picture freezing issue, call Brighthouse and insist on a new box and you can say, "The tech was here in the past, he replaced some wiring, didn't replace my box and the problem still exists."

I really think this is an HDMI issue or a box issue. If it wasn't, I would think that all Brighthouse Customers would be having the same bug. Having consistent picture freezing in browsing the guide is a major, major, issue and should be resolved. The older versions of Navigator that had this very issue got the problem solved by switching from HDMI to Coaxial Cable.

Have you always had this problem with this box?

Jack

You are about three versions behind, (at least two.) Before, we got Navigator 3, were were on something like version 2.7.x.x (I have MDN.) I'm on ODN 2.4.10_11 and it is indeed the release that fixed the HDMI bug. From what I've read here, I'd venture to guess that most of the ODN users are still on this release.

I'd add though that nextbgates95 reports a slightly different symptom. He claims that he cannot clean up the small window problem without rebooting. When people experienced the bug on the previous release (including myself), they could clear it with a combination of turning PIP on and off and changing to channels with a different resolution. I agree though that if he wasn't out of component ports, component cables would probably fix the problem.

What an informed group of technophiles! Impressive. New to the forum ... I tried to read as much as I could to find if my specific issues have been covered ... which they have to some extent .. but not enough to answer my outstanding questions ... Here's my story ...

I'm a Northern Manhattan TWC customer with HD DVR service.

I was living in "ignorant" bliss until last week ... but am now "in the weeds" on all this stuff. Until last week, I had an 8300HD which was running Passport. Long story short, I got a new box - the 8300HDC running Navigator. I have it hooked up via component to my HDTV.

Here are my questions:

** My version of Navigator does NOT have the Series Priority option? What can I do? Can you request a firmware upgrade or are they strictly system-wide? I know there IS a version of Navigator with this option re-established ... but I don't seem to have it ...

** Does the 8300HDC have a smaller capacity HDD than the 8300HD?

** Can one hook up an external drive to a TWC NYC SA 8300HDC?

** I have 2nd HD box that is not a DVR ... can I get a different non-DVR box from TWC NYC that will give me the HD Movies on Demand and extra channels I now get on my DVR box?

Thanks in advance!

What an informed group of technophiles! Impressive. New to the forum ... I tried to read as much as I could to find if my specific issues have been covered ... which they have to some extent .. but not enough to answer my outstanding questions ... Here's my story ...

I'm a Northern Manhattan TWC customer with HD DVR service.

I was living in "ignorant" bliss until last week ... but am now "in the weeds" on all this stuff. Until last week, I had an 8300HD which was running Passport. Long story short, I got a new box - the 8300HDC running Navigator. I have it hooked up via component to my HDTV.

Here are my questions:

** My version of Navigator does NOT have the Series Priority option? What can I do? Can you request a firmware upgrade or are they strictly system-wide? I know there IS a version of Navigator with this option re-established ... but I don't seem to have it ...

** Does the 8300HDC have a smaller capacity HDD than the 8300HD?

** Can one hook up an external drive to a TWC NYC SA 8300HDC?

** I have 2nd HD box that is not a DVR ... can I get a different non-DVR box from TWC NYC that will give me the HD Movies on Demand and extra channels I now get on my DVR box?

Thanks in advance!

1. you got what you got until your local system decides to push an update
2. i believe they are the same
3.yes.. but depending on the software version it may not work
4.i use the SA3250hd if your second box is an HD you should already be seeing them. you may need to call and have them push them through to your box or try unplugging it for awhile it may get the update when it reboots.

I don't know for sure beyond this, but the current versions are/should be:
ODN: 3.1.0_11
MDN: 2.4.4_15

Note: I have MDN 2.4.4_14, so the latest version hasn't been pushed out yet in San Diego.

I'm on ODN 2.4.10_11 and it is indeed the release that fixed the HDMI bug. From what I've read here, I'd venture to guess that most of the ODN users are still on this release.

I'd add though that nextbgates95 reports a slightly different symptom. He claims that he cannot clean up the small window problem without rebooting. When people experienced the bug on the previous release (including myself), they could clear it with a combination of turning PIP on and off and changing to channels with a different resolution. I agree though that if he wasn't out of component ports, component cables would probably fix the problem.

Well, I have my box locked to 1080i, so that may have something to do with it. I'm sure it is a box/software issue, and I know that botched cable wiring does cause a lot of problems with digital receivers. I still plan on upgrading the box in a while, but I will wait for a few updates, there is no point in getting a new box with old software now. Glad to hear that ODN 3 is coming, it looks like it fixes quite a few errors.

Edit: I just got a reply from our support email address:

Thank you for taking the time to email Bright House Networks. We are unable to process your request via email correspondence. This service is available for customer feedback and customer concerns. This service directs the customer to who can help them. We do not discuss anything that would need account verification or billing information. Please call 317-972-9700 to speak with a Customer Service Representative. Marion customers please call 765-662-0071.

** Can one hook up an external drive to a TWC NYC SA 8300HDC?There's a whole thread dedicated to this topic:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=516559&page=243

Just wondering if anyone can answer my questions.

My picture freezes in a tiny preview window when exiting the guide, and the only solution is a reboot. I was an early adopter of Mystro, I've had this box for about 8-9 months. I have an 8300HDC, with OCAP Terminal and Mystro which really confuses me. I thought there was just ODN or MDN? Anyway, I have seen pictures of a newer Time Warner ( we have brighthouse in indy ) Navigator software, and was wondering if I could get that? http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/2/7013.jpgThey are coming out to do a box switch tomorrow, is there anything I should know? I used to have an 8300HD with SARA, but I don't want SARA again. Will they replace this with another HDC? I don't use cablecard.

What about the 8550HDC?

Like I posted earlier. People who get Navigator from SARA are going to like it better.

I called TWCNYC and told them how I hate HDC box and Navigator, and I told them unless I got 8300HD running passport box back I would switch to satellite company.

Within 1 hour, I drove to TWC store and swapped my brand spanking new HDC Navigator box with a old used looking HD Passport box. I am now all set, I hope they never force upgrade over the network to these boxes to change it to Navigator over the air (I hope that's not possible)

Plus, I get to keep my shiny 8700L remote with backlit buttons (wow) :rolleyes:
But anyway I am all set and I don't have to switch to DirecTV now.

Within 1 hour, I drove to TWC store and swapped my brand spanking new HDC Navigator box with a old used looking HD Passport box. I am now all set, I hope they never force upgrade over the network to these boxes to change it to Navigator over the air (I hope that's not possible).It's very possible. Every Cisco/SA box on TWC's San Diego system was switched to MDN, in waves, over a period of about a month (all of the HDC boxes were distributed with ODN installed, even when all of the old boxes were running Passport). They can download it into your box as easily as they can download updates to Passport.

....I hope they never force upgrade over the network to these boxes to change it to Navigator over the air (I hope that's not possible)..

Not to rain on your parade, but it is possible. Passport is only a memory on my 8300HD now running Navigator.

Not to rain on your parade, but it is possible. Passport is only a memory on my 8300HD now running Navigator.

Yes,

Over time. It could be a week, a month, six months, whatever, your non-C Passport boxes will eventually be changed to Navigator. A plus for user hyedipin is that his box is non-C, it will likely run Navigator better than the new C boxes. The motto is: Hold on to your non-C boxes, replacing them only when absolutely necessary.

Jack

The motto is: Hold on to your non-C boxes, replacing them only when absolutely necessary.

Jack

Yes, but I've found that my non C 8300 box has HDMI issues. The HDMI just doesn't work right and will not change resolutions properly. I know it's the box because I've tried different HDMI cables, different projectors and different AV receivers. My friend has a non DVD HDC box that switches fine and both mine and his are running SARA. I'm stuck using component for now, but here you on holding onto it for when Navigator comes down the pipe. However, I have a feeling I'll be with DirecTV by the time that happens.

Is anyone else having issues with any other boxes not changing resolutions properly? For example, I set the box to passthrough because I want the HQV scaler to do the processing. When the box goes from 720p to 1080i, all I get is a black screen. I'm not getting an HDCP error message, but I think this has something to do with it. If I power cycle my AVR it comes back. When I use component cables it works flawlessly.

I honestly just think it's the outdated equipment. I'd be happy to try an 8550 or anything newer to see if it makes a difference.

I called TWCNYC and told them how I hate HDC box and Navigator, and I told them unless I got 8300HD running passport box back I would switch to satellite company.

Within 1 hour, I drove to TWC store and swapped my brand spanking new HDC Navigator box with a old used looking HD Passport box. I am now all set, I hope they never force upgrade over the network to these boxes to change it to Navigator over the air (I hope that's not possible)

Plus, I get to keep my shiny 8700L remote with backlit buttons (wow) :rolleyes:
But anyway I am all set and I don't have to switch to DirecTV now.

NYC is going to be the last TWC division to get MDN. They said they can't afford to have problems.

Is there anyway to block that? :) Anyway, like hdfan said, I will hang on to it as long as possible. I am just so glad I got my good old passport back. :) Start-over? No thanks...

I bid you guys a due (Navigator Topic) for now, thanks for all the help.

Unfortunately no you can't block an MDN upgrade. MDN is a bit better than ODN in regards to speed. ODN on the Samsung HD-DVR might be much better though. NYC still hasn't converted to MDN yet. They will probably later this year. MDN has gone through some nice upgrades. Maybe they are waiting for some version. Then you'll be back in the Navigator club.

No keyword searches, no thanks. I hope they don't force it anytime soon, I would be forced to flee. Knowing TWCNYC they would still put older version of it.

No keyword searches, no thanks. I hope they don't force it anytime soon, I would be forced to flee. Knowing TWCNYC they would still put older version of it.You can run, but you can't hide. Assimilation is inevitable.:D

No keyword searches, no thanks. I hope they don't force it anytime soon, I would be forced to flee. Knowing TWCNYC they would still put older version of it.

Pity us poor SARA users. We do not even have a proper search.. Keyboard search and hopefully keyword search eventually would be a Godsent to us.

Agreed that a keyboard search would be nice. However, my patience continues to wear thin here as the PQ has started to suffer horribly on some channels. ESPNHD is compressed to hell lately and it's not even a switched channel!

Agreed that a keyboard search would be nice. However, my patience continues to wear thin here as the PQ has started to suffer horribly on some channels. ESPNHD is compressed to hell lately and it's not even a switched channel!Compression (rate shaping) and switching are unrelated, except in that they're both methods of optimizing bandwidth utilization. Switched channels are no more likely to be compressed than any other.

What's your indication that ESPN HD is over compressed? I've seen channels display typical compression artifacts which were running at or near the highest rates on the system--whatever was affecting PQ was unlikely to be the fault of the cable provider.

There has been a noticeable drop in PQ reported by many people on our local forum. I went to check it out and verified that there is evident compression/artifacts especially in background/dark areas that wasn't there previous. My point about it not being switched was that it is a high demand channel normally giving more bandwidth to whereas a low demand channel TW may skimp or downrez a bit. The issue is widespread and not just mine, plus I wired my own home and just did a signal check. I know I'm getting proper levels.

There has been a noticeable drop in PQ reported by many people on our local forum. I went to check it out and verified that there is evident compression/artifacts especially in background/dark areas that wasn't there previous. My point about it not being switched was that it is a high demand channel normally giving more bandwidth to whereas a low demand channel TW may skimp or downrez a bit. The issue is widespread and not just mine, plus I wired my own home and just did a signal check. I know I'm getting proper levels.The only way to be certain that there's over-compression going on is to record some programs on the channel, figure out the size of those recordings and calculate the bit rate. (That's been possible for me to do with Passport and TiVo, but I don't know how to do it with SARA or Navigator. In Passport, I'd wait until the box was not recording, find out the free space from the diags, delete the recording and read the free space again; TiVo reports the size of records in their descriptions). As I said, I've seen things that looked like compression artifacts on 720p channels that were coming in at 18.5+ Mbps. I've also seen remarkably crisp and artifact-free 1080i video that was coming in at half that rate (Universal HD on my local TWC system). You shouldn't make assumptions on the source of PQ problems.

I've got TWNYC coming out Sunday to look at my box. 8300HDC. Tried to DVR 4 shows last night. 3 hrs of lost. American Idol and CSI NY.

1st hour of Lost recorded completely but kept freezing on playback. 2 hr premier of Lost DVR said it was recording 9-11 stopped at min 46 also freezing and herky playback. CSI and AI were almost unwatchable because they kept freezing.

I've had numerous dropouts of sound and video, pixelation on many channels, freezing playbacks, FF and rewind functions not working correctly. Really am sick of their lousy service and equipment.

So the TW tech came to my Apt. He checked the throughput on my line and said that was the problem. He wired a powered amplifier onto the line and said I should have no more problems. Famous last words. Was taping and watching the Screen Actors Guild awards and low and behold freezing and drop outs again. Now I'm not sure if it is the fact that I was DVR'ing or it is just a crappy box. Got to monitor this and see if I need a return visit. :mad:

Basic Info Banner:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/jcalabria/Banner/Banner024Small.jpg

Expanded Banner, Page 1:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/jcalabria/Banner/Banner025Small.jpg

Expanded Banner, Page 2:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/jcalabria/Banner/Banner026Small.jpg


I am in the same market as jcalabria(Charlotte, NC), but I have two 8300HDs running MDN whereas it appears his box is running ODN. One of the differences I can see is in the expanded banner. Almost all of the program descriptions in MDN are truncated after a certain number of characters. I also checked many programs and none of them had the "page 1 of 2" option pictured above.

When I got my second HD box last fall I specifically made them get a box without a cablecard because of all the problems with ODN that people reported here. Maybe I will exchange one of the MDN boxes for an ODN box so I can compare them. I'm hestitant to do so however, since unlike jnv11 I have had almost no problems with either of my 8300HDs running MDN.

I can't get over what a huge step graphically that is from SARA. The SARA guide really looks like it was done on a Commodore 64 - no joke. I'll have to post some pics when I get a chance for those that haven't seen it.

I am in the same market as jcalabria(Charlotte, NC), but I have two 8300HDs running MDN whereas it appears his box is running ODN. One of the differences I can see is in the expanded banner. Almost all of the program descriptions in MDN are truncated after a certain number of characters. I also checked many programs and none of them had the "page 1 of 2" option pictured above.


Until jcalabria posted those images I never saw any multipage spreads, but if you go to premium movie channels like HBO and Sho you'll see them often.

It's not that they have more useful information it's because the guide lists parental advisory warnings for movies in the callout box in the upper left which don't occur often on regular programming. When the extended banner is used that information drops in and forces the guide summary to run into two panels.

I don't remember seeing any truncation recently on live shows but if you bring up the info panel while watching a prerecorded show the information is nearly always missing.

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/7320/guidecutzk6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/guidecutzk6.jpg/1/w400.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img264/guidecutzk6.jpg/1/)

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/1694/bannercutdu3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/bannercutdu3.jpg/1/w400.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img259/bannercutdu3.jpg/1/)

I see multipage info panels on many channels/programs, not just the premiums. I also get the exact same info on recorded programs as there was when they were live.

Until jcalabria posted those images I never saw any multipage spreads, but if you go to premium movie channels like HBO and Sho you'll see them often.

It's not that they have more useful information it's because the guide lists parental advisory warnings for movies in the callout box in the upper left which don't occur often on regular programming. When the extended banner is used that information drops in and forces the guide summary to run into two panels.

I don't remember seeing any truncation recently on live shows but if you bring up the info panel while watching a prerecorded show the information is nearly always missing.

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/7320/guidecutzk6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/guidecutzk6.jpg/1/w400.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img264/guidecutzk6.jpg/1/)

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/1694/bannercutdu3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/bannercutdu3.jpg/1/w400.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img259/bannercutdu3.jpg/1/)

I can't get over what a huge step graphically that is from SARA. The SARA guide really looks like it was done on a Commodore 64 - no joke. I'll have to post some pics when I get a chance for those that haven't seen it.

My daughter has a SARA 8300HDC up in TW Greensboro. My father also has a SARA 8300HD in the municipally run MI-Connections system up in the north end of of Mecklenburg County... they are absolutely ghastly to look at and horrible to operate compared to the Navigator (and earlier Passport) boxes TW runs in the rest of the county.

Yes, that is ODN 3.1.0.11 2008/11/26, running on 8300HDC.

...it appears his box is running ODN. One of the differences I can see is in the expanded banner. Almost all of the program descriptions in MDN are truncated after a certain number of characters. I also checked many programs and none of them had the "page 1 of 2" option pictured above

I can't get over what a huge step graphically that is from SARA. The SARA guide really looks like it was done on a Commodore 64 - no joke. I'll have to post some pics when I get a chance for those that haven't seen it.

I have Navigator at my beach home and Sara at my main home in Greensboro NC. I almost cry when I have to leave the beach. Navigator is that much superior over Sara. I am on MDN at the coast on a pioneer non dvr box. Belive it or not it's faster than my Sara 8300hd in Greensboro. And I do have the expanded info channels on my guide. Alll in all my navigator experience has been very very pleasant. I love the Navigator search engine (only missing keyword seach) which we never had in sara. SARA people will love Navigator I perdict. (IF we ever get it)

I love the Navigator search engine (only missing keyword seach) which we never had in sara. SARA people will love Navigator I perdict. (IF we ever get it)

As long as it doesn't break eSATA!

xnappo

I have Navigator at my beach home and Sara at my main home in Greensboro NC. I almost cry when I have to leave the beach. Navigator is that much superior over Sara. I am on MDN at the coast on a pioneer non dvr box. Belive it or not it's faster than my Sara 8300hd in Greensboro. And I do have the expanded info channels on my guide. Alll in all my navigator experience has been very very pleasant. I love the Navigator search engine (only missing keyword seach) which we never had in sara. SARA people will love Navigator I perdict. (IF we ever get it)

Again, I'd LOVE to give Navigator a run. However, I'm tempted to jump on the latest DirecTV offering as I can lock in th $72.99 package for $49 for a year and get all my receivers for free. It's just the damn weather here right now and it's only suppose to get worse. I still have a ton of pre-wiring to do. IE: I have to run power to the crawl space and install the OTA hookup as well as run CAT %e cable to my outlets. I was really waiting for the weather to warm up. Hopefully DirecTV has some good offers come June or TWC gets it's ass in gear and offers up something to keep me.

...I am on MDN at the coast on a pioneer non dvr box. Belive it or not it's faster than my Sara 8300hd in Greensboro...

Wow... When Mystro was first pushed to my older Pioneer Voyager HD box, I was appalled at how slow it got compared to the Passport that was previously on it. That was one of the reason I finally upgraded to a DVR box (that and the fact that I wasn't going to watch SD recordings from my Panasonic DVR on my new HD set, lol).

I have only had ODN (several versions, though) on the 8300HDC... its much faster than the Pioneer was on Mystro, but occasionally will lag a bit on channel changes. At least the guide and info are always there, which used to take a minute or more to load on the single tuner Pioneer... even though it was always there with Passport.

As long as it doesn't break eSATA!

xnappo

I've got an external SATA drive sitting here but haven't tried it yet. I need to... this thing fills up in a heartbeat with HD recordings. Maybe I'll give it a try tonight if I get home early enough.

Anybody know what I might expect with an 8300HDC and ODN 3.1.0.11?

I've got an external SATA drive sitting here but haven't tried it yet. I need to... this thing fills up in a heartbeat with HD recordings. Maybe I'll give it a try tonight if I get home early enough.

Anybody know what I might expect with an 8300HDC and ODN 3.1.0.11?You may want to check out the thread for connecting external drives to an 8300:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=516559

We're beginning to get reports from people with ODN 3.1.0.11 and it seems that this release is more problematic than the previous release. However, because it's new, we don't really have enough data yet.

Wow... When Mystro was first pushed to my older Pioneer Voyager HD box, I was appalled at how slow it got compared to the Passport that was previously on it. That was one of the reason I finally upgraded to a DVR box (that and the fact that I wasn't going to watch SD recordings from my Panasonic DVR on my new HD set, lol).

I have only had ODN (several versions, though) on the 8300HDC... its much faster than the Pioneer was on Mystro, but occasionally will lag a bit on channel changes. At least the guide and info are always there, which used to take a minute or more to load on the single tuner Pioneer... even though it was always there with Passport.

The latest update we received on our beach house MDN occured when we were not there. However what ever they did the speed is now blazing fast on my pioneer box.

Wow... When Mystro was first pushed to my older Pioneer Voyager HD box, I was appalled at how slow it got compared to the Passport that was previously on it. That was one of the reason I finally upgraded to a DVR box (that and the fact that I wasn't going to watch SD recordings from my Panasonic DVR on my new HD set, lol).

I have only had ODN (several versions, though) on the 8300HDC... its much faster than the Pioneer was on Mystro, but occasionally will lag a bit on channel changes. At least the guide and info are always there, which used to take a minute or more to load on the single tuner Pioneer... even though it was always there with Passport.

Because the Pioneer boxes are the first digital boxes (or among the first) to be released into the digital market around year 2000, they don't have the memory or speed to run Navigator well. Users with speed, freezing, or other problems related to Navigator on Pioneer model boxes, should get their boxes exchanged for newer models. Pioneer units are simply much too old to handle the new guide.

Jack

Curious about what differences there are between the latest versions of MDN: 2.4.4_14 and 2.4.4_15? I'm wondering why I'm still on _14 and my local system (San Diego) decided not to push out _15.

Curious about what differences there are between the latest versions of MDN: 2.4.4_14 and 2.4.4_15? I'm wondering why I'm still on _14 and my local system (San Diego) decided not to push out _15.

Most likely, just some minor bug fixes. You have the Navigator with the new colors, right? (MDN) I have an MDN box and I think it is still 2.3.3_15. For those that don't have the update. This is what I have noticed:

New Navigator Features


Keyboard search now has wraparound.

The Keyboard is on the first page of a "B" button press to Find Shows. For Catagory Searches, you press B a second time.

There are supposedly more options for Series Recording Manaement. But I do not use Series Recording. (Someone else can fill in the gaps here.)
The guide speed seems to be a bit faster.

Menu's look more polished and professional than the old blue-on blue UI.

On Demand programs are more reliable. Graphics on On Demand Channels look pretty cool actually!

I have noticed more detailed program descriptions in the guide by pressing Info. In addition, there are improved Content Advisories for programs.

Features Still Missing That Need to Be Added:


Keyboard Keyword Searching

Manual Start/Stop Time Recording Options.


(I am near Milwaukee-Wisconsin, so your configurations may be slightly different.)

Jack

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/1694/bannercutdu3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


The transparency in your banner... setting or MDN feature? I've never seen that in ODN nor in the MDN I've seen at friends house.

The transparency in your banner... setting or MDN feature? I've never seen that in ODN nor in the MDN I've seen at friends house.

Ha, all this time and I never noticed that before. I don't have an option to change that setting so it must be another MDN difference.

The only time I remember adjusting transparency is viewing the diagnostics. Pressing SELECT will adjust the transparency of the overlay much as it used to do by pressing A under Passport.

If transparency control is supported for diagnostics, control for the banner might be buried somewhere in the hidden code commands. Or it could just be an automatic adjustment made by the 8300HD. I can't remember if Passport had any transparency.

Ha, all this time and I never noticed that before. I don't have an option to change that setting so it must be another MDN difference.

The only time I remember adjusting transparency is viewing the diagnostics. Pressing SELECT will adjust the transparency of the overlay much as it used to do by pressing A under Passport.

If transparency control is supported for diagnostics, control for the banner might be buried somewhere in the hidden code commands. Or it could just be an automatic adjustment made by the 8300HD. I can't remember if Passport had any transparency.

Before we get excited about this feature, any chance your exposure was made just at the instant the banner went on or off??? But you are correct that the box obviously can do transparencies, as in diagnostic mode. I didn't know you could adjust it, though.

Before we get excited about this feature, any chance your exposure was made just at the instant the banner went on or off??? But you are correct that the box obviously can do transparencies, as in diagnostic mode. I didn't know you could adjust it, though.

Nope, that's the default transparency level for all banners.

Thinking I might have changed the level by accident I've been trying some convoluted button sequences to see if I can adjust it again, but haven't found anything.

I believe that all the TW divisions in the Carolinas EXCEPT Greensboro/Triad are on Navigator. For sure Charlotte (my home), Raleigh (my son's home) & Wilmington (one of my TW buddies works there) do. Only 75% sure about the SC divisions. My daughter is heading back to her Greensboro apartment for spring semester today... I'll find out if she has been 'gatored yet.

I'll ask my Wilmington buddy about Myrtle Beach.
Here in Columbia SC we are still on Sara. At least on the several boxes I have seen from friends and family and of course my own. I just switched from having a couple of old Directivos (no local HD on Directv) and my wife is not at all happy with the 8300HD so far. So the WAF is low.:rolleyes:Hopefully we will get navigator in the near future.

The 8300 is crap. Once again on an install was I forced to use component with separate audio cable to get it to properly change resolution. Why not just go OTA with D*? Do you regret switching yet?

The transparency in your banner... setting or MDN feature? I've never seen that in ODN nor in the MDN I've seen at friends house.
mine are transparent also. its been like that for quite a while though i'm not really sure when i first noticed it. never changed anything in diagnostics. have actually only been in diag. once and that was back when i first got navigatred.

just went and checked the explorer 3250hd in another room. its transparent too. it still has the old blue on blue version. not sure exactly what version.

mine are transparent also. its been like that for quite a while though i'm not really sure when i first noticed it. never changed anything in diagnostics. have actually only been in diag. once and that was back when i first got navigatred.

Interesting. It is surprising to me that the hardware is even capable of doing transparency. It is quite dated.

xnappo

The 8300 is crap. Once again on an install was I forced to use component with separate audio cable to get it to properly change resolution. Why not just go OTA with D*? Do you regret switching yet?

Is that an 8300 issue or a SARA issue? Whether I set the box to output 1080i only and let the box scale (which I do not do as my normal mode of operation) or just turn on all possible output resolutions and let my TV sort it out (normal for me), I really have no issues in this regard. When I change channels to one with a different resolution, all I really see is about a 1 second black screen with a "Searching for Signal" message generated by my TV as it renegotiates the HDMI handshake. I'm on an 8300HDC with ODN 3.1.0.11. TV is a Samsung LCD (A550 series).

Occasionally, I will get a gray screen or a monochrome picture if I change channels that include a res change, but this is VERY rare (seen it maybe 3 times in last two months - and I change channels ALOT!). Changing the channel a second time corrects it.

Are you scaling in the box or passing through all resolutions to the TV? Does changing that affect the problem you see?

FWIW, I do not use ANY stretch modes at all, preferring pillarboxed 4:3 over any form of stretch-o-vision. Maybe using stretch mode in the box (if you are) might add another factor causing problems... it is another mode of scaling you are asking the box to do.

mine are transparent also. its been like that for quite a while though i'm not really sure when i first noticed it. never changed anything in diagnostics. have actually only been in diag. once and that was back when i first got navigatred.

just went and checked the explorer 3250hd in another room. its transparent too. it still has the old blue on blue version. not sure exactly what version.

Just be glad Statesville stayed TW after the Adelphia meltdown. My father and brother both have the wonderful municipally-run MI-Connections service. (Northern Mecklenburg and southern Iredell county took the former Adelphia system back from TW)

OMG... what a disaster! A grand total of 9 "basic" HD channels (compared to 28 for TW-Charlotte - 32 as of Feb 13), pitifully poor analog reception and not a single digital simulcast of any of the analog basic SD channels - not even the broadcast channels (at least 75% of the TW Charlotte analog basic channels have digital simulcasts for those with digital boxes... and quite a few of them are clear QAM, too) The MI service is essentially the same price as TW-Charlotte and they have little prospect of being anything but SARA and list only 2 additional HD channels for their 2009 upgrade plans.

TWC Navigator / SA8300HD Rant:

At the very minimum, I expect TWC to provide stable, functional, intuitive, and user-friendly hardware and software. Period.

What I want TWC to provide is a 'multi-room'/'whole-house' DVR with at least 3 HD tuners (preferrably 4 HD tuners) and a 500GB internal hard drive (preferrably 1TB) that's also removable and transferreable to a new box (so our recordings are not lost when the box fails or is replaced with a newer model.)

** I want to have DVR access in every room with a digital cable box, but I shouldn't have to pay additional DVR service fees for each additional room.

** I want to have plenty of storage space for many HD recordings without having to deal with an un-supported external hard drive. And, I don't want to lose my recordings when swapping out bad boxes or upgrading to newer equipment.

** I want to be able to record up to 3 or 4 different programs airing at the same time, since the networks always seem to put their best shows on against each other.

I know these improvements would add to the cost of the equipment, but I think TWC would find many customers like me that would be willing to pay a reasonable upgrade fee to get a box with more capacities than their standard boxes.

TWC Navigator / SA8300HD Rant:

At the very minimum, I expect TWC to provide stable, functional, intuitive, and user-friendly hardware and software. Period.

What I want TWC to provide is a 'multi-room'/'whole-house' DVR with at least 3 HD tuners (preferrably 4 HD tuners) and a 500GB internal hard drive (preferrably 1TB) that's also removable and transferreable to a new box (so our recordings are not lost when the box fails or is replaced with a newer model.)

** I want to have DVR access in every room with a digital cable box, but I shouldn't have to pay additional DVR service fees for each additional room.

** I want to have plenty of storage space for many HD recordings without having to deal with an un-supported external hard drive. And, I don't want to lose my recordings when swapping out bad boxes or upgrading to newer equipment.

** I want to be able to record up to 3 or 4 different programs airing at the same time, since the networks always seem to put their best shows on against each other.

I know these improvements would add to the cost of the equipment, but I think TWC would find many customers like me that would be willing to pay a reasonable upgrade fee to get a box with more capacities than their standard boxes.

Don't hold your breath.

TWC Navigator / SA8300HD Rant:

At the very minimum, I expect TWC to provide stable, functional, intuitive, and user-friendly hardware and software. Period.

What I want TWC to provide is a 'multi-room'/'whole-house' DVR with at least 3 HD tuners (preferrably 4 HD tuners) and a 500GB internal hard drive (preferrably 1TB) that's also removable and transferreable to a new box (so our recordings are not lost when the box fails or is replaced with a newer model.)

** I want to have DVR access in every room with a digital cable box, but I shouldn't have to pay additional DVR service fees for each additional room.

** I want to have plenty of storage space for many HD recordings without having to deal with an un-supported external hard drive. And, I don't want to lose my recordings when swapping out bad boxes or upgrading to newer equipment.

** I want to be able to record up to 3 or 4 different programs airing at the same time, since the networks always seem to put their best shows on against each other.

I know these improvements would add to the cost of the equipment, but I think TWC would find many customers like me that would be willing to pay a reasonable upgrade fee to get a box with more capacities than their standard boxes.

Don't hold your breath. It's TWC your talking aabout.

The 8300 is crap. Once again on an install was I forced to use component with separate audio cable to get it to properly change resolution. Why not just go OTA with D*? Do you regret switching yet?

I considered going OTA with D* but I live a good bit out of town in a heavily wooded (and hilly) area and was concerned about the reception. Plus I really did not want an antenna on my house again especially if it is just a short while until D* gets local HD. If it gets annoying enough I will switch back since everything we watch except live events is DVRd. So far it is clunky but works. So for now I will just hope to get Navigator soon. So far I have not had any issues with the HDMI connection setting the resolution incorrectly. But the first 8300 was defective and had to be sent back..

Navigator is Coming! Navigator is Coming!

I don't know when, but our division just completely revised its website and removed all traces of SARA from it. It now touts the new Digital Navigator.

Others in the Central New York Area can check it out HERE. (http://www.timewarnercable.com/centralny/support/navigator/programguide.html)

Maybe I will get to give it a whirl before I decide whether or not to switch! Now, if they drop that with some expanded HD I'll be all set!

Some new hardware would be nice too!

Update: LOL I have to laugh. So I call TWC to ask when I can expect the Navigator Guide to download to my 8300HD. The lady on the phone says "What's Navigator?" I proceed to explain that TWC has completely redesigned the local website and that it tell all about Navigator, then explain exactly what Navigator is to her. She replies "We haven't been told anything about it". Typical TWC!!!! :rolleyes:

Navigator is Coming! Navigator is Coming!

I don't know when, but our division just completely revised its website and removed all traces of SARA from it. It now touts the new Digital Navigator.

Others in the Central New York Area can check it out HERE. (http://www.timewarnercable.com/centralny/support/navigator/programguide.html)

Maybe I will get to give it a whirl before I decide whether or not to switch! Now, if they drop that with some expanded HD I'll be all set!

Some new hardware would be nice too!

Update: LOL I have to laugh. So I call TWC to ask when I can expect the Navigator Guide to download to my 8300HD. The lady on the phone says "What's Navigator?" I proceed to explain that TWC has completely redesigned the local website and that it tell all about Navigator, then explain exactly what Navigator is to her. She replies "We haven't been told anything about it". Typical TWC!!!! :rolleyes:

Same thing happened to me when they changed the website here. CSR's are such idiots untrained by TWC.

Navigator is Coming! Navigator is Coming!

I don't know when, but our division just completely revised its website and removed all traces of SARA from it. It now touts the new Digital Navigator.


Same here in Austin...

xnappo

Same thing happened to me when they changed the website here. CSR's are such idiots untrained by TWC.

Indeed, I just found all my old links to various sections are no longer good,it took me a long time to figure out it's the "Learn" tab you have to...

Indeed, I just found all my old links to various sections are no longer good,it took me a long time to figure out it's the "Learn" tab you have to...

It's funny how we all keep checking their website for whatever reasons. I was in a mini-panic when my link to upcoming channel changes was lost, lol.

I hope folks wanting & waiting on Navigator get it soon, BUT... the new website is obviously company wide... what we ALL see in the website probably has more to do with them rolling out a nationally consistent new web site look than it does with them rolling out nationally consistent box OS.

Well, we are still waiting for the HD channels they announced back before Thanksgiving!

Well, we are still waiting for the HD channels they announced back before Thanksgiving!

Are they having SDV issues or is something else holding things back?

We've been seeing a torrent of changes here since last summer... corresponding with the completion of the initial Navigator and SDV rollouts. A bunch of our standard def channels have also been switched to SDV, paving the way for even more services (I hope). As of 2/13 we will be up to 32 "basic" HD's. With SciFi and USA coming on board, I think the only SD channels I watch anymore are FX & Science.

Maybe having TW corporate engineering here in Charlotte helps!

As is the usual par for the course with TWC, the 'new' website design that appears to have been launched for all divisions went 'live' before it was fully ready. The last arcticle posted in 'In The News' section is from 11/08, where as the former website had several postings for December and January. The Channel Lineup, which was formerly current, has reverted to an older listing previous to the last update on 1/14/09 when new HD channels were added and several were moved.

It also seems that TWC has now dropped all attempts to appeal to lower-end customers. Nowhere on the new website is there any mention of basic or standard cable services. Everything is totally geared toward digital cable and new services like Start Over and Quick Clips.

OT: The New TWC Website:

The Flash player content moves things along SOOOOO SSSLLLOWWW. I bookmarked the "About Us" section that does not use Flash. This appears to be a corporate level website change.

Jack

Anybody notice this in the DVR section of the new web site...
DVR on the Go...
Coming soon...Time Warner Cable's new DVR Manager.
Schedule your favorite programming over the web!
see the right side of this page:
http://www.timewarnercable.com/Carolinas/learn/cable/dvrhddvr/default.html
The link it sends you to doesn't have any more info, though.

Also... the new website has a similar graphic look & feel as the latest Navigator versions... at least like my ODN 3.1.

Since any new software features that TWC tout are close to mythology for everyone outside of the thee areas were they actually release them, I'm just ignoring all that new feature PR spiel.

One thing that is slightly interesting however is this throwaway line:

"An HD-DVR stores up to 35 hours of high-definition programming."

And where are those extra 15 hours coming from?

Since any new software features that TWC tout are close to mythology for everyone outside of the thee areas were they actually release them, I'm just ignoring all that new feature PR spiel.

One thing that is slightly interesting however is this throwaway line:

"An HD-DVR stores up to 35 hours of high-definition programming."

And where are those extra 15 hours coming from?

I know that everything they are touting is not available in all locations, but I have to say that here in Charlotte we have just about everything they are hyping on the web site.

The number of recordable hours depends on the channel you're recording... since the box records the demodulated stream, it inherits whatever level of compression is used leaving the HE. Not all of the HD channels are distributed with the same level of compression. So the "up to" number probably represents best case with all shows coming from whatever the theoretically highest compression ratios they might use. It certainly won't be 35 (or even 20) hours of ESPN. If you can stand it, see how many hours you can record of Lifetime Movie Network, lol.

Or maybe it refers to a Samsung 3090 with a 320GB drive that very few will likely get anytime soon.

The number of recordable hours depends on the channel you're recording... since the box records the demodulated stream, it inherits whatever level of compression is used leaving the HE. Not all of the HD channels are distributed with the same level of compression. So the "up to" number probably represents best case with all shows coming from whatever the theoretically highest compression ratios they might use. It certainly won't be 35 (or even 20) hours of ESPN. If you can stand it, see how many hours you can record of Lifetime Movie Network, lol.

Or maybe it refers to a Samsung 3090 with a 320GB drive that very few will likely get anytime soon.

That's the first time TWC have run out the 35 hour recording number so if it doesn't mean new hardware then it's just a bad sign.

A good number of HD channels already look like macroblocked crap on TWC as it is, so if this means every new HD SDV channel is going to be compressed to the size of a postage stamp to give them that extra capacity it won't be worth it.

Two nights ago I recorded 60 minutes of signal breakup interspersed with a few minutes of Kyle XY. On the same night the SDV version of BBC America went dark - "currently unavailable, please try again". If that's the future of their transmission ability at work then it won't matter what Navigator recording capacity is because it will be just be 35 hours of unwatchable HD.

Anybody notice this in the DVR section of the new web site...
DVR on the Go...
Coming soon...Time Warner Cable's new DVR Manager.
Schedule your favorite programming over the web!
see the right side of this page:
http://www.timewarnercable.com/Carolinas/learn/cable/dvrhddvr/default.html
The link it sends you to doesn't have any more info, though.

Also... the new website has a similar graphic look & feel as the latest Navigator versions... at least like my ODN 3.1.

I don't see the DVR on the go thing. With the site being so new. There appear to be a lot of links that don't work or are not ready to work.

Jack

There appear to be a lot of links that don't work or are not ready to work.

Slow site, broken features ... so, very similar to the Navigator rollout.

At least they are consistent across all forms of media.

I don't see the DVR on the go thing. With the site being so new. There appear to be a lot of links that don't work or are not ready to work.

Jack

Maybe it is locale specific... log in with a Charlotte zip code (try 28226) and see if it shows up. It's not much more than what I quoted, though.

Slow site, broken features ... so, very similar to the Navigator rollout.

At least they are consistent across all forms of media.

Hahahaha!!! Yea, they are using the Lincoln Nebraska initial Navigator rollout phase as a test model for their new website.......CLOWNS!

It's dollars to doughnuts that few of these integrated features will see the light of day soon, unless customers may be in some test market. Even if TWC knew what they were doing, there is too much variation from city to city and division to division to start applying this misleading universal standards that are being applied to that new website:

For example, some divisions advertised Start Over back in 2007, and still don't have it. Even for me in Milwaukee, it was listed as "Coming Soon" in a November 2008, pamphlet.

Remember when Navigator was first advertised? It was supposed to have channels for advanced video games, interactive polls, and do everything but wash windows. That was in JANUARY 2007! When Titanic Navigator hit the icebergs, all those added doo-dads were postponed

Maybe TWC could be getting their ass in gear with establishing SOME consistency from division to division. However, I am going to need more convincing than just a consolidated website, to see that features and employee attitudes are changing for the positive. I hope that things are getting better. But until I see positive change in divisions, I am not holding my breath.

Jack

Since any new software features that TWC tout are close to mythology for everyone outside of the thee areas were they actually release them, I'm just ignoring all that new feature PR spiel.

One thing that is slightly interesting however is this throwaway line:

"An HD-DVR stores up to 35 hours of high-definition programming."

And where are those extra 15 hours coming from?

It, most likely, means they're going to deploy the Samsung SMT-3090 DVR unit with the 320GB disk unit, since the current units with the 160GB drive can store up to 20 hours.

Either that - or - they're going to MPEG-4 distribution down to us - but that still means you need the new SMT-3090 unit, which has h.264 decoding built-in (the SA8300 series does not).

The new Time Warner website is a joke. It's Broken. The early Navigator team must have designed it. It is fulll of bugs and hardly works and that is me being kind.

I don't see the DVR on the go thing. With the site being so new. There appear to be a lot of links that don't work or are not ready to work.

Jack

Jack your lucky. My website so broken I cannot get to dvr section.

Just got into website. Uner onscreen guide it says am I'm not kidding. SARA ONSCREEN GUIDE site under construction please be patience with us or something to that effect. LOL LOL LOL One month they announce we are going Navigator and the next month the ask us tp have patience with SARA. Do they really think all their customers are mind less morons. GRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Like I said... living where TW corporate engineering is located apparently has its advantages! :D

They must not get up to Greensboro too often! :p

Just got into website. Uner onscreen guide it says am I'm not kidding. SARA ONSCREEN GUIDE site under construction please be patience with us or something to that effect. LOL LOL LOL One month they announce we are going Navigator and the next month the ask us tp have patience with SARA. Do they really think all their customers are mind less morons. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRHUH?? Could someone translate this for me?:confused:

Mystro (MDN) version is being developed by TWC-HQ in Denver, CO sub-urbs.
OCAP (ODN) version is being partially developed in nearly Bounder, CO:
http://www.vidiom.com/about_us/index.html
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13429419

Note that DENVER (COMCAST Territory) is NOT served by TWC!!!!
So the developers can go home, free from any Navigator annoyances.....

Note that DENVER (COMCAST Territory) is NOT served by TWC!!!!
So the developers can go home, free from any Navigator annoyances.....This is only because they bought the little start-up that was developing it, and didn't force them to move (generally a bad idea).

Are they having SDV issues or is something else holding things back?

We've been seeing a torrent of changes here since last summer... corresponding with the completion of the initial Navigator and SDV rollouts. A bunch of our standard def channels have also been switched to SDV, paving the way for even more services (I hope). As of 2/13 we will be up to 32 "basic" HD's. With SciFi and USA coming on board, I think the only SD channels I watch anymore are FX & Science.

Maybe having TW corporate engineering here in Charlotte helps!

No, our SDV has been working flawlessly. I have never seen a "Channel Not Available" message or anything. Rochester to our west and Albany to our East have nice robust HD lineups with most high demand channels like USA, Fx, Fox New, Sci-Fi, etc. We have squat. I have an email in to Time Warner asking for information on the Navigator deployment and the new website. I will post a reply (if I get one) here.

One thing that is slightly interesting however is this throwaway line:

"An HD-DVR stores up to 35 hours of high-definition programming."

And where are those extra 15 hours coming from?
I got that in my recent mailing too a couple weeks ago. I figure they are rounding high and counting on more compression. I hope not, but the drive ain't any bigger. /Dan

It's funny how we all keep checking their website for whatever reasons. I was in a mini-panic when my link to upcoming channel changes was lost, lol.

I hope folks wanting & waiting on Navigator get it soon, BUT... the new website is obviously company wide... what we ALL see in the website probably has more to do with them rolling out a nationally consistent new web site look than it does with them rolling out nationally consistent box OS.

I live in Charlotte too and also went into a mini-panic when my upcoming channel changes were lost, but if you haven't found it yet, here is the link:
http://www.timewarnercable.com/Carolinas/support/policies/channelchange.html

I live in Charlotte too and also went into a mini-panic when my upcoming channel changes were lost, but if you haven't found it yet, here is the link:
http://www.timewarnercable.com/Carolinas/support/policies/channelchange.html

Thanks... but I had it bookmarked already... I should have posted it myself.

We're like kids on Christmas morning wanting to get the first peek at what's under the tree.

No, our SDV has been working flawlessly. I have never seen a "Channel Not Available" message or anything. Rochester to our west and Albany to our East have nice robust HD lineups with most high demand channels like USA, Fx, Fox New, Sci-Fi, etc. We have squat.

Having squat is probably a benefit to SDV. If there is nothing worth watching it's not going to be too stressed. When you get more HD you might regret it. Of course you are in FiOS territory so maybe TW will be more enthusiastic about keeping it working. ;)

My first encounter with SDV was for the olympics and none of the channels worked over the 8300. Clear QAM was fine.

Since then I've seen at least four occasions where an SDV channel dropped out. Thankfully most of those I was just browsing through and not really watching.

Of course you are in FiOS territory so maybe TW will be more enthusiastic about keeping it working. ;)


FiOS won't be where I am for years. I can't even get DSL here. TWC is the only game in town other than satellite. Now, the actual City of Syracuse has areas where FiOS may become reality, but I'm on a different headend 50 miles east. My only hope is for a trickle down effect when FiOS does get deployed on a limited basis that all surrounding divisions benefit. However, I may be long gone from cable by the time that happens.

Now, the actual City of Syracuse has areas where FiOS may become reality, but I'm on a different headend 50 miles east.

That's closer to FiOS than Raleigh is! :D

Slow site, broken features ... so, very similar to the Navigator rollout.

At least they are consistent across all forms of media.

marketing always trumps development!!!:D

Since any new software features that TWC tout are close to mythology for everyone outside of the thee areas were they actually release them, I'm just ignoring all that new feature PR spiel.

One thing that is slightly interesting however is this throwaway line:

"An HD-DVR stores up to 35 hours of high-definition programming."

And where are those extra 15 hours coming from?

Indeed, that one jumped off the page and bitch slapped me in the forehead!

If it holds 35 of HD, it must hold well over 120 of SD... so it ain't like they are going to start handing out boxes with 300-320G drives in them.

FWIW, the spec on my box was 90 hours of SD, 20 of HD. A lot of folks get thrown for a loop because they don't realize that in calculating whether anything MUST be deleted, it uses the next two days of scheduled recordings.

Or maybe it refers to a Samsung 3090 with a 320GB drive that very few will likely get anytime soon.

Except that 35 of HD probably means about 120 of SD. Yet they say 80... so I think this is just a typical dumb TWC mistake.

HUH?? Could someone translate this for me?:confused:

Last month TWC announced Navigator was comeing here. The date passed and no Navigator.. Now a new website. The Navigator page has been removed. A new page is up saying SARA onscreen guide. Under it a message states SITE UNDER CONSTRUCTION (We have had sara 10 years here) Then it states please be patient with us. Understand our frustration now?

When I get "channel unavailable" on HD range, should I check SIGNAL STRENGTH in DIAG MENU for that channel? If so, what range am I looking for to indicate good signal strength?

When I get "channel unavailable" on HD range, should I check SIGNAL STRENGTH in DIAG MENU for that channel? If so, what range am I looking for to indicate good signal strength?

That message is typically an indication of a network traffic issue for an SDV channel. Nothing to do with signal strength, it is an indication that the pool of SDV frequencies is fully occupied and the system couldn't set up a virtual channel for your use. In that case, typically just tuning away and coming back to the channel will work.

If you always get the message for a particular channel or group of channels, it may in fact be a signal issue or a headend issue and a service call is in order.

Last month TWC announced Navigator was comeing here. The date passed and no Navigator.. Now a new website. The Navigator page has been removed. A new page is up saying SARA onscreen guide. Under it a message states SITE UNDER CONSTRUCTION (We have had sara 10 years here) Then it states please be patient with us. Understand our frustration now?

TW might as well just get rid of all the CSR's and save a fortune. Once again they prove to be ABSOLUTELY WORTHLESS. I emailed an inquiry about our divisions new web page and the NAvigator portion of it asking two SIMPLE questions: When is it scheduled to be deployed and if they could explain what happened to the announced HD channels from before Thanksgiving. Here is the response I got:

Thank you for contacting us using our online service. Our goal is to bring more HD channels to our customers in the very near future. We are working diligently to make this happen as soon as possible. We will let our customers know as soon as the channels are available and have a reliable HD signal. The same goes with the navigator software. Thank you.

Really? That's an answer? TW is so poorly run that the CSR's don't even have pertinent information about major changes to the system. It like no one knows whats going on over there. They throw up a new website with completely new information about service and features then have no idea about it. This is one of the things that drives me crazy with them. The utter lack of information about the service.

TW might as well just get rid of all the CSR's and save a fortune. Once again they prove to be ABSOLUTELY WORTHLESS. I emailed an inquiry about our divisions new web page and the NAvigator portion of it asking two SIMPLE questions: When is it scheduled to be deployed and if they could explain what happened to the announced HD channels from before Thanksgiving. Here is the response I got:

Thank you for contacting us using our online service. Our goal is to bring more HD channels to our customers in the very near future. We are working diligently to make this happen as soon as possible. We will let our customers know as soon as the channels are available and have a reliable HD signal. The same goes with the navigator software. Thank you.

Really? That's an answer? TW is so poorly run that the CSR's don't even have pertinent information about major changes to the system. It like no one knows whats going on over there. They throw up a new website with completely new information about service and features then have no idea about it. This is one of the things that drives me crazy with them. The utter lack of information about the service.

I agree. It also seems the CSR problem is system wide.

I live in Charlotte too and also went into a mini-panic when my upcoming channel changes were lost, but if you haven't found it yet, here is the link:
http://www.timewarnercable.com/Carolinas/support/policies/channelchange.htmlBut, if it is like ours I suspect it is the old page still available (through a search for Programming Alerts) but will it be maintained/updated since there is no link from the new website? I think not. /Dan

P.S. Looking around I see we do not have the Changes choice in our Digital Cable Support page like you do. SoCal only has the old one under a page that starts with the word "Template".

But, if it is like ours I suspect it is the old page still available (through a search for Programming Alerts) but will it be maintained/updated since there is no link from the new website? I think not. /Dan

P.S. Looking around I see we do not have the Changes choice in our Digital Cable Support page like you do. SoCal only has the old one under a page that starts with the word "Template".

I just checked the SoCal web-site and you are right. TWC-SoCal more pitiful then TWC-Carolinas. Yikes. When the channel changes do show up in your locality, it will probably be in the bottom of the page under the Help column on the right, like this: http://www.timewarnercable.com/Carolinas/aboutus/sitemap.html

That message is typically an indication of a network traffic issue for an SDV channel. Nothing to do with signal strength, it is an indication that the pool of SDV frequencies is fully occupied and the system couldn't set up a virtual channel for your use. In that case, typically just tuning away and coming back to the channel will work.

If you always get the message for a particular channel or group of channels, it may in fact be a signal issue or a headend issue and a service call is in order.

I had the tech out last Saturday and he removed a splitter that fixed the issue. But now it has popped up again on my SA8300HDC. Strange thing is that my SA8300HD doesn't have the problem so I think it is signal strength. So again, what is the range of signal strength I should look for?

I had the tech out last Saturday and he removed a splitter that fixed the issue. But now it has popped up again on my SA8300HDC. Strange thing is that my SA8300HD doesn't have the problem so I think it is signal strength. So again, what is the range of signal strength I should look for?

What strength are you getting now?

As jcalabria said when an SDV channel goes down and you get the placeholder screen it's usually a TWC network and traffic problem.

As jcalabria said when an SDV channel goes down and you get the placeholder screen it's usually a TWC network and traffic problem.

On my parents ODN box, I checked the diags one day when a bunch of cannels were down. On the SDV screen, the last error was No SDV Bandwith, or something like that. I live next door, and I went back to my house where I have MDN. I couldn't tune the same channels either. My SDV diags just said Unknown.

I hope this isn't the wrong thread for this, but while I await my Navigator upgrade in Summerfield, NC (just outside Greensboro), I continually check this thread for updates. I read a reply last night in which someone offered a "wish list" that included a swappable HDD so shows wouldn't be lost when going with a new receiver and it got me to wondering if it would be possible to transfer my current videos to my PC so I could then put them on my iPod for mobile viewing or burn to discs so I could free up HDD space on the receiver and still watch these recorded shows at my leisure.

Is it possible? Have the Explorer 8240 HDC, if that matters. I'm sure that due to copyright issues, they've put safeguards in place to reduce the likelihood of this happening, but I'm also confident that people have found workarounds for it. I've got probably 120 episodes of How Its Made on my DVR for my son, for example, that I'd love to transfer over to his iPod (they likely wouldn't all fit at once) so he could watch them at swim meets or during long car rides while also freeing up the disc space to save other shows for my other three kids. Obviously 120 episodes is a ridiculous number and I could easily go in and delete any number of them to free up space, but if it's possible to transfer them I'd rather try that route first.

Thanks.

If they are SD, you can record them to a Pinnacle Dazzle (http://www.pinnaclesys.com/PublicSite/us/Products/Consumer+Products/Dazzle/) or if they are HD, a Hauppauge HD-PVR (http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr.html)...

v/r,
C-F

Thanks, C-F

I was hoping to find a way to network it directly to my computer (wirelessly with an adaptor) or through an ethernet connection, if possible. I used to own a dazzle unit, but haven't had it for quite some time. I guess I should've held onto it :)

I hope this isn't the wrong thread for this, but while I await my Navigator upgrade in Summerfield, NC (just outside Greensboro), I continually check this thread for updates. I read a reply last night in which someone offered a "wish list" that included a swappable HDD so shows wouldn't be lost when going with a new receiver and it got me to wondering if it would be possible to transfer my current videos to my PC so I could then put them on my iPod for mobile viewing or burn to discs so I could free up HDD space on the receiver and still watch these recorded shows at my leisure.

Is it possible? Have the Explorer 8240 HDC, if that matters. I'm sure that due to copyright issues, they've put safeguards in place to reduce the likelihood of this happening, but I'm also confident that people have found workarounds for it. I've got probably 120 episodes of How Its Made on my DVR for my son, for example, that I'd love to transfer over to his iPod (they likely wouldn't all fit at once) so he could watch them at swim meets or during long car rides while also freeing up the disc space to save other shows for my other three kids. Obviously 120 episodes is a ridiculous number and I could easily go in and delete any number of them to free up space, but if it's possible to transfer them I'd rather try that route first.

Thanks.

From what it looks like we in the Triad will be waiting for Navigator a longggg longgg long time .

What strength are you getting now?

As jcalabria said when an SDV channel goes down and you get the placeholder screen it's usually a TWC network and traffic problem.

Its working again so can't check for signal problem. But I repeat the problem is only with my ODN (SA8300HDC) box and not my MDN (SA8300HD) box. If it was a SDV bandwidth issue wouldn't it affect both boxes at the same time?

Its working again so can't check for signal problem. But I repeat the problem is only with my ODN (SA8300HDC) box and not my MDN (SA8300HD) box. If it was a SDV bandwidth issue wouldn't it affect both boxes at the same time?

Are you testing the MDN box first? If so, what could be happening could be the following:

You tune to an SDV channel on the MDN box.
You tune away from it to a non-SDV channel. However, your MDN box still buffers it and therefore did not release it.
You tune the ODN box to an SDV channel. However, since your MDN box is buffering an SDV channel, the SDV channels are maxed out. You therefore get a channel not available error.

This is why I favor removing the buffer previous channel feature in an SDV environment. Removing this feature will free up many unwatched SDV channels due to removing the need to automatically buffer them, which often needlessly hogs them. However, if there is no analog and all of the channels except for the locals which must be presented in MPEG-2 are presented in H.264 (the most advanced form of MPEG-4), I would favor having previous channel buffering because there would be no need for SDV.

To do a valid test, you need to tune the MDN box to two non-SDV channels one after the other to make sure you are not needlessly hogging up an SDV channel.

But I thought SDV was a shared "SDV channel" mechanism within each local node, i.e. "content streams" are allocated to "SDV channels" (and resources limited) on the shared node, and once one person requests a "content stream" - all other/new users on the node requesting that "content stream" use the same "SDV channel" to tune to. If so, in your scenario, tuning and buffering the same "content stream" would make the "content stream" and "SDV channel" now available [with less delay] to everyone on the shared node.

I see the point however about the [use/allocation] of "SDV channels" to unwatched buffered "content streams". Although, I thought one of the complaints about moving from PASSPORT to NAVIGATOR (or SARA) was that it (they) do not buffer the alternate tuner unless recording or PIP is engaged?

So I wonder, does the SDV "carousel" have logic for identifying [orphaned/unwatched] "content streams"? Would that tie into the "Press any Key to Watch TV" screen? Could there be a [DOS attack] on the SDV node, with folks leaving the TV on random "content streams" and tying up "SDV channels" while not really watching anything? Does the SDV request include information about whether this is a scheduled recording, channel surfing, or direct channel tuning (guide or keypad)? Is there a [voting/priority] mechanism where scheduled recording requests could prompt the "Press..." screen for suspected orphans (to prevent viewers arbitrarily loosing the "content stream" to "SDV channel" election - wouldn't that be some CSR fun)?

So if they put the consistent dual buffer back in NAVIGATOR, would "SDV channels" then be different (to avoid tying up "SDV channel" resources at the node) so broadcast channels buffer and "SDV channels" do not?

I wonder now if the dual buffer issue (tying up allocations) was the larger part of the changes to PASSPORT which needed addressing to get it in line with SDV?

SDV is relatively new here, and the wife picked up an 8240HDC which displayed "Channel Not Available" symptoms on every SDV "content stream" (for the brief period it worked before it miraculously became "Not Authorized") where the 8300HD has not (yet, knock on wood).


v/r,
C-F

But I thought SDV was a shared "SDV channel" mechanism within each local node, i.e. "content streams" are allocated to "SDV channels" (and resources limited) on the shared node, and once one person requests a "content stream" - all other/new users on the node requesting that "content stream" use the same "SDV channel" to tune to. If so, in your scenario, tuning and buffering the same "content stream" would make the "content stream" and "SDV channel" now available [with less delay] to everyone on the shared node.

I see the point however about the [use/allocation] of "SDV channels" to unwatched buffered "content streams". Although, I thought one of the complaints about moving from PASSPORT to NAVIGATOR (or SARA) was that it (they) do not buffer the alternate tuner unless recording or PIP is engaged?

So I wonder, does the SDV "carousel" have logic for identifying [orphaned/unwatched] "content streams"? Would that tie into the "Press any Key to Watch TV" screen? Could there be a [DOS attack] on the SDV node, with folks leaving the TV on random "content streams" and tying up "SDV channels" while not really watching anything? Does the SDV request include information about whether this is a scheduled recording, channel surfing, or direct channel tuning (guide or keypad)? Is there a [voting/priority] mechanism where scheduled recording requests could prompt the "Press..." screen for suspected orphans (to prevent viewers arbitrarily loosing the "content stream" to "SDV channel" election - wouldn't that be some CSR fun)?

So if they put the consistent dual buffer back in NAVIGATOR, would "SDV channels" then be different (to avoid tying up "SDV channel" resources at the node) so broadcast channels buffer and "SDV channels" do not?

I wonder now if the dual buffer issue (tying up allocations) was the larger part of the changes to PASSPORT which needed addressing to get it in line with SDV?

SDV is relatively new here, and the wife picked up an 8240HDC which displayed "Channel Not Available" symptoms on every SDV "content stream" (for the brief period it worked before it miraculously became "Not Authorized") where the 8300HD has not (yet, knock on wood).


v/r,
C-F

SARA did SDV before Navigator or PASSPORT and does it very welll. One if not the only truely nice SARA feature.

Off-topic, however: yes SARA has been SDV capable for a while, but El Paso is new at it (so no benefit here until new channels start arriving), and CableCards seem to have more issues with it.

v/r,
C-F

But I thought SDV was a shared "SDV channel" mechanism within each local node, i.e. "content streams" are allocated to "SDV channels" (and resources limited) on the shared node, and once one person requests a "content stream" - all other/new users on the node requesting that "content stream" use the same "SDV channel" to tune to. If so, in your scenario, tuning and buffering the same "content stream" would make the "content stream" and "SDV channel" now available [with less delay] to everyone on the shared node.

I see the point however about the [use/allocation] of "SDV channels" to unwatched buffered "content streams". Although, I thought one of the complaints about moving from PASSPORT to NAVIGATOR (or SARA) was that it (they) do not buffer the alternate tuner unless recording or PIP is engaged?

So I wonder, does the SDV "carousel" have logic for identifying [orphaned/unwatched] "content streams"? Would that tie into the "Press any Key to Watch TV" screen? Could there be a [DOS attack] on the SDV node, with folks leaving the TV on random "content streams" and tying up "SDV channels" while not really watching anything? Does the SDV request include information about whether this is a scheduled recording, channel surfing, or direct channel tuning (guide or keypad)? Is there a [voting/priority] mechanism where scheduled recording requests could prompt the "Press..." screen for suspected orphans (to prevent viewers arbitrarily loosing the "content stream" to "SDV channel" election - wouldn't that be some CSR fun)?

So if they put the consistent dual buffer back in NAVIGATOR, would "SDV channels" then be different (to avoid tying up "SDV channel" resources at the node) so broadcast channels buffer and "SDV channels" do not?

I wonder now if the dual buffer issue (tying up allocations) was the larger part of the changes to PASSPORT which needed addressing to get it in line with SDV?

SDV is relatively new here, and the wife picked up an 8240HDC which displayed "Channel Not Available" symptoms on every SDV "content stream" (for the brief period it worked before it miraculously became "Not Authorized") where the 8300HD has not (yet, knock on wood).


v/r,
C-F

I do not know if you are using the same SDV channel or not to test on both boxes. I would think that SDV would use the same channel as another user when the same channel is requested by more than one box at the same time. However, if the tester was using two different SDV channels on the different boxes, my scenario where the SDV system maxes out could arise.

As for another possibility, it could be possible that the upstream path on the tester's house is marginal, and therefore the MDN box is able to contact the head end, while the ODN box is unable to contact the head end because its return path is just bad enough that it cannot contact the head end.

I was having sound problems with my digital TW box hooked up by HDMI, so I changed to component wires. Now I get no video or audio after bootup. The box reboots and I get the initial boot messages on the screen, but then nothing after that. The box counts down from L-13 to L-1, but it doesn't show on the screen as it should. Any ideas why I get no video or sound?

I was having sound problems with my digital TW box hooked up by HDMI, so I changed to component wires. Now I get no video or audio after bootup. The box reboots and I get the initial boot messages on the screen, but then nothing after that. The box counts down from L-13 to L-1, but it doesn't show on the screen as it should. Any ideas why I get no video or sound?

First, your box might be trying to send resolutions your TV cannot accept. Have you tried connecting the box via the composite or S-video outputs and disabling the bad resolutions using those outputs because your TV and the box are guaranteed to speak and understand 480i in those outputs? I twice got apparently DOA cable boxes to work using this method when I did a box swap.

Second, if you want to fix the sound issues if you want to retry HDMI, did you select "HDMI" wherever your digital audio format is selected? (In MDN, it is in the "Audio Settings" menu. In ODN, it is in the Devices submenu of the "Quick Settings" menu.)

I think you meant component not composite. Component is just as good as HDMI in most cases.

I think you meant component not composite. Component is just as good as HDMI in most cases.I think he meant what he said. A composite cable may be needed long enough get into his menu to set his resolutions and to get out of HDMI mode.

I seem to recall there is a startup technique where the resolutions can be set up at boot time. Anyone recall the procedure?

As for another possibility, it could be possible that the upstream path on the tester's house is marginal, and therefore the MDN box is able to contact the head end, while the ODN box is unable to contact the head end because its return path is just bad enough that it cannot contact the head end.

This happens a lot when SDV is rolled out. People have wiring and amps in the path that block upstream. If VOD also does not work reliably, this is probably the issue.

xnappo

I think he meant what he said. A composite cable may be needed long enough get into his menu to set his resolutions and to get out of HDMI mode.

I seem to recall there is a startup technique where the resolutions can be set up at boot time. Anyone recall the procedure?

That is one of the few rare good things about SARA. I do not think that this can be done with Navigator.

I think you meant component not composite. Component is just as good as HDMI in most cases.

I really meant composite. Once on those two apparently DOA but not really DOA boxes, the resolutions were set correctly, but component did not work until I disabled 1080i and 720p and then reenabled 1080i, even though its front panel indicated that the box was outputting 1080i. (My family's CRT-based rear projection TV can accept 480i, 480p, and 1080i; but I usually leave it at 1080i only because its 480i upconversion process is too coarse and often generates a noticeably pixelated image, and the CRTs' electron beams are too focused to not show lines in 480p mode. However, the same focus is not sharp enough to show all the details in 1080i mode when fed a native 1080i image (not an upscaled image).)

I think he meant what he said. A composite cable may be needed long enough get into his menu to set his resolutions and to get out of HDMI mode.

I seem to recall there is a startup technique where the resolutions can be set up at boot time. Anyone recall the procedure?

Yes, but I don't know if it works with Navigator. The HDTV setup wizard can be run on SARA by pressing the INFO and GUIDE buttons on the front panel simultaneously while the box is in a power OFF state. It will walk you through setting up you output resolutions and monitor type (IE: 4x3 or 16x9). Use ADVANCED mode. If you select EASY mode it just defaults the box to output everything at 1080i fixed.

on the topic of SDV channels not working...my 8300hd never has a problem with those channels but the 3250hd in another room quite frequently shows the channel not available message. it comes and goes. i've had TW out multiple times checking signals .its always working when they are here. it doesnt bother me too much since that set isnt HD. i just tune to one of the other 2 versions of that channel if i want to watch it.

looks like the server issues with the new TWC site have improved here. There are still penty of dead links however.

Going through the FAQ I found this amusing gem:

Question:
Why are the program descriptions so short?

Answer:
There is a limit to the number of characters we can enter in the system which can be displayed on-screen. Time Warner Cable understands that giving you longer program descriptions are an important issue. We are always working to improve descriptions and add content to enhance your viewing experience.

I wonder if they'll fix that before or after the much touted "2 week of guide info in Navigator" that still hasn't arrived?

looks like the server issues with the new TWC site have improved here. There are still penty of dead links however.

Going through the FAQ I found this amusing gem:

Question:
Why are the program descriptions so short?

Answer:
There is a limit to the number of characters we can enter in the system which can be displayed on-screen. Time Warner Cable understands that giving you longer program descriptions are an important issue. We are always working to improve descriptions and add content to enhance your viewing experience.

I wonder if they'll fix that before or after the much touted "2 week of guide info in Navigator" that still hasn't arrived?

I am just so sick of the happy salespitch bull$hit approach by using canned/form letter responses. Not just with TWC, but a lot of these big corporate outlets. They can't be honest and ever say there are problems with a system, they never tell you what they are working on to make things better. You have to beat a cable rep with a whip and a chair to even begin to get them to talk about Navigator's problems. Put away the sales crap, and start talking about what SPECIFIC areas and time-frames you have for product improvements and new features. Get the community involved through accurate honest reporting, with trained competent people providing feedback and taking suggestions from real people that can be studied and applied. So many of us could run a cable business better than those dolts at TWC.

Jack

I have TWC in Raleigh, NC and I'm wondering why I haven't got the new software update on one of my boxes yet. I got the update with the new menu interface on the box in the living room a month ago and it has been working fine, but the one upstairs still has the old version and has been freezing and acting up with the recordings. I'm wondering if there is any way to force my box to update? I've unplugged it and let it reboot but it's still the same.

I have TWC in Raleigh, NC and I'm wondering why I haven't got the new software update on one of my boxes yet. I got the update with the new menu interface on the box in the living room a month ago and it has been working fine, but the one upstairs still has the old version and has been freezing and acting up with the recordings. I'm wondering if there is any way to force my box to update? I've unplugged it and let it reboot but it's still the same.

I would suggest you call your local Time Warner office. Maybe they can help you get it sent to your box.

looks like the server issues with the new TWC site have improved here. There are still penty of dead links however.

Going through the FAQ I found this amusing gem:

Question:
Why are the program descriptions so short?

Answer:
There is a limit to the number of characters we can enter in the system which can be displayed on-screen. Time Warner Cable understands that giving you longer program descriptions are an important issue. We are always working to improve descriptions and add content to enhance your viewing experience.

I wonder if they'll fix that before or after the much touted "2 week of guide info in Navigator" that still hasn't arrived?

quite frequently i see program descriptions that are so generic its funny. last night i noticed that family guys info simply said "American family explores lifes situations"
right now i'm looking at the Andy Griffith shows info. it says "widowed sheriff andy taylor raises his son in mayberry north, carolina."
neither of these give me any info concerning what the particular episode is about, totally useless.

Not sure what thread to post this in but the backlighting for my SA8300hdc remote control sometimes switches off if I accidentally put my laptop or something heavy on it. A month later, put something heavy on it and it switched on again. Happened again and now the backlighting is off.

Any idea what key sequence turns on/off backlighting for SA8300hdc remote control?

Nevermind, found the answer here..
http://www.urcsupport.com/images/uploaded_images/Atlas_OCAP_M1056.pdf

You press the Setup key twice to turn backlight off/on.

Speaking of remotes... one of the best was an ancient cable box remote... don't even remember what box it worked with. What was so nice was that the transmitter was on the underside of the unit. As in you hold the unit with all the buttons parallel to your face!

I have TWC in Raleigh, NC and I'm wondering why I haven't got the new software update on one of my boxes yet. I got the update with the new menu interface on the box in the living room a month ago and it has been working fine, but the one upstairs still has the old version and has been freezing and acting up with the recordings. I'm wondering if there is any way to force my box to update? I've unplugged it and let it reboot but it's still the same.

Maybe MDN boxes have newest software, but ODN do not. Actually, I am quite glad they are waiting with ODN update, as it supposedly breaks eSATA support (at least nukes your existing recordings that happen to be on the external drive). For me, some small improvements (time slot recording and colors) are not worth messing my external drive.

Jack asked for some actual SARA images to compare to Navigator and Passport, so I snapped a few to display. Mind you these are in the color scheme I prefer, not the default purple or pink.

Also, I got information from our division rep stating that there are NO PLANS for Navigator in our market. Even though they launched a new website touting it, there is no date because it is set by "corporate". This proves again that local divisions don't have much control or say in the matter. Here is a copy of his email response to me when I inquired about Navigator, new hardware, and more HD (my emphasis added):

Hi Ben.

We haven't trained our employees yet about Navigator because that's a
corporate roll-out, not yet scheduled for CNY. We'll certainly train
our employees on its availability and features when it's scheduled to
launch in CNY -- no certain date yet.

The HD channels that you reference should be on by the end of the month,
and no later than March 5. (As you noted, we're testing them internally
now.) Add to that list Big 10 Network in HD, as we're adding that to
our Sports Tier as well (but you have to subscribe to that optional
$3.95 package to get that, in addition to two more new SD channels: Gol
TV and the Sportsman's Channel.) We're also adding CBS College Sports
in HD for our sports tier customers who already get that in SD as part
of that package. Finally, our Starz customers will be happy to hear
that we're adding Starz On Demand.

Finally, the boxes we supply are the Corporate standard, and it sounds
like you're up to date with our latest. Customers are able to (if they
wish) add an external SATA hard drive via firewire, if they wish to
enjoy increased storage capacity. Our software will recognize the
customer's external drive and manage it... But if you disconnect it or
replace your TWC-provided DVR, you'll lose access to the content stored
on the that external drive.

I'm pleased we're adding channels that you have been asking about.

It's terrible, one hand doesn't know what the other is doing!!! I was getting psyched to actual see some progress that was looking like it might actual thwart my switch to satellite. Now, I'm getting the feeling of why wait?

I also finally got a reply to my E Mail about all their Navigator dates they have missed. It stated AT THIS TIME THE GREENSBORO TRIAD DIVISION HAS NO PLANS TO LAUNCH OUR NEW NAVIGATOR . WE ALSO HAVE NO PLANS FOR A SARA UPGRADE. THE NAVIGATOR WHEN LAUNCHED WILL BE PROCEEDED BY A E MAIL. BUT AT THIS TIME WE HAVE NO PLANS TO PLACE NAVIGATOR IN THE TRIAD. Are these people trying to send people to Direct TV with their double speak. I have about had it with Time Warner.