I hear you and I replied with an email stating such to Mr. Unaitis about how TWC is perceived to be ... hell, it's not even perception, it's a fact!

I responded to the email he sent with the following:

First off let me thank you for taking the time to write back. I'm sure you have a busy schedule. I wish I could give you more positive feedback, besides being happy to get some of the high demand HD content we are lacking. However, Time Warner Cable as a whole seems to not be concerned with the changing trends in technology or advancement thereof. At least, that's the appearance many of your tech minded subs, like myself get. There is an ongoing discussion of this at the AVS Forum concerning HD, Navigator and Time Warner Cable as a whole. We can't understand things like why Time Warner would launch a completely revamped website touting Navigator and have zero information concerning it's release. It justifies the perception that there is no communication between corporate and local all the way down to the frontline CSR's. We are looking for a stream of information, something to keep us as customers. Personally, I have put myself on a June deadline to switch to DirecTV because they constantly put out pertinent information and have members on DBS Forums. They keep up with new technology and equipment and keep the people informed. They have a more robust guide, better DVR, more HD,multi-room DVR and better equipment. They offer things like account control via their website. You can add/remove programming, schedule your DVR, etc. The launch of the new Time Warner website gave me hope that we would see the advances shown there with Navigator (which we were told was to come here Q1 last year) and more HD, as well as newer boxes like the Cisco 8550 (out over a year now) or 8600 series. It would give me reason to stay as I am overall satisfied with my package from Time Warner. The Phone and RoadRunner are outstanding, but the flagship product of cable leaves much to be desired. Now, I hear from you that this appears to be all hype. The HD additions are great, but when rates shoot up close to $7 a month for the top Triple Play we start looking at more than just programming. I certainly hope Time Warner can stand and deliver. If nothing else, a steady stream of information would go a long way. Many people just want to be kept in the loop so they can make an informed decision. Thank you again for taking the time to hear my concerns. If you are interested in providing updates directly, you would be welcome at the AVS Forum.

The two main threads are:

Syracuse/Utica HDTV

Time Warner Navigator

Thanks Again,

Ben

Respectful, but to the point. My big problem is WHY would they totally revamp the website touting all this new stuff including Navigator which we were told we would have by Q1 LAST YEAR and then they have no plans, not even an idea of when these products are coming. It's completely ridiculous that the company is run this poorly. It's astonishing!

[I]Hi Ben.


Finally, the boxes we supply are the Corporate standard, and it sounds
like you're up to date with our latest. Customers are able to (if they
wish) add an external SATA hard drive via firewire, if they wish to
enjoy increased storage capacity.

Now what's wrong with this picture? :D And this guy is in charge?

This is the PR guy, not a technical guy. He should have all the info about channels, deployment of product, rates, etc.

I was willing to let the 1394 port for the eSATA port slide. My issue is that the website was updated to reflect "Great New Services" and we aren't getting any.

This morning I noticed that my guide and list had a crisp new look. My Navagator has been "upgraded" to 2.4.4-16 from 2.4.1-107. Not much experience with it yet, but so far, so good! I still have my eSATA shows and closed captioning works. I'll post again as I learn more about it.

As an aside, is there an easy way to tell if a channel is SDV?

The main problem with TWC is all they do is respond in double speak or answers that give you no hope anything is going to get better anytime soon. I am really for the first time in my life thinking about Direct tv. My brother who lives in High Point just dropped TWC and switched to Direct I just might follow.

You ain't the only one brother. I have been kicking the DirecTV tires for almost a year. TWC has given me enough crumbs to keep me onboard thusfar. IE: Reduced rate $114 Triple Play price lock with HBO and Starz as well as the few HD additions here and there up until August. Since about October I started looking hard at satellite options settling on DirecTV should I make the switch. I like Dish equipment much better, but the installation would be a bear with multiple lines and backfeeding as well as some limited programming. Plus it's a real hassle to get the 5th outlet from Dish. Anyway, back to TWC. They are just completely losing me. If they could offer me a more robust cable package I'd stay. I have no issues with the PQ (of what little we get) and the rest of the package as a whole. I'm just sick of waiting for them to play catch up knowing that when the finally do, they will still be two generations behind the current technology!

you ain't the only one brother. I have been kicking the directv tires for almost a year. Twc has given me enough crumbs to keep me onboard thusfar. Ie: Reduced rate $114 triple play price lock with hbo and starz as well as the few hd additions here and there up until august. Since about october i started looking hard at satellite options settling on directv should i make the switch. I like dish equipment much better, but the installation would be a bear with multiple lines and backfeeding as well as some limited programming. Plus it's a real hassle to get the 5th outlet from dish. Anyway, back to twc. They are just completely losing me. If they could offer me a more robust cable package i'd stay. I have no issues with the pq (of what little we get) and the rest of the package as a whole. I'm just sick of waiting for them to play catch up knowing that when the finally do, they will still be two generations behind the current technology!

amen

This morning I noticed that my guide and list had a crisp new look. My Navagator has been "upgraded" to 2.4.4-16 from 2.4.1-107. Not much experience with it yet, but so far, so good! I still have my eSATA shows and closed captioning works. I'll post again as I learn more about it.

As an aside, is there an easy way to tell if a channel is SDV?

I don't know about MDN, but on ODN (on an SA 8300HDC) you can put the box into diagnostic mode by holding the "Select" button on the front of the box till the mail symbol lights up, then pressing the down button. One of the diagnostic pages has tuner information and it will list SDV or Non-SDV for each tuner. You can scroll through the channels in this mode and determine what is what. Also, if you ever get a "This Channel is Not Available" message when you tune to a channel, its probably SDV.

I am giveing Time Warner until April 15 for improvent to our guide here in Greensboro. After that date i'm gone. Direct tv for me.. If I leave i'm changeing my main house in Greensboro and my beach house in Emerald Isle ( which does have Navigator which i am pleased with) When I leave it will be like them loseing two subs.

I hear you and I replied with an email stating such to Mr. Unaitis about how TWC is perceived to be ... hell, it's not even perception, it's a fact!

I responded to the email he sent with the following:

First off let me thank you for taking the time to write back. I'm sure you have a busy schedule. I wish I could give you more positive feedback, besides being happy to get some of the high demand HD content we are lacking. However, Time Warner Cable as a whole seems to not be concerned with the changing trends in technology or advancement thereof. At least, that's the appearance many of your tech minded subs, like myself get. There is an ongoing discussion of this at the AVS Forum concerning HD, Navigator and Time Warner Cable as a whole. We can't understand things like why Time Warner would launch a completely revamped website touting Navigator and have zero information concerning it's release. It justifies the perception that there is no communication between corporate and local all the way down to the frontline CSR's. We are looking for a stream of information, something to keep us as customers. Personally, I have put myself on a June deadline to switch to DirecTV because they constantly put out pertinent information and have members on DBS Forums. They keep up with new technology and equipment and keep the people informed. They have a more robust guide, better DVR, more HD,multi-room DVR and better equipment. They offer things like account control via their website. You can add/remove programming, schedule your DVR, etc. The launch of the new Time Warner website gave me hope that we would see the advances shown there with Navigator (which we were told was to come here Q1 last year) and more HD, as well as newer boxes like the Cisco 8550 (out over a year now) or 8600 series. It would give me reason to stay as I am overall satisfied with my package from Time Warner. The Phone and RoadRunner are outstanding, but the flagship product of cable leaves much to be desired. Now, I hear from you that this appears to be all hype. The HD additions are great, but when rates shoot up close to $7 a month for the top Triple Play we start looking at more than just programming. I certainly hope Time Warner can stand and deliver. If nothing else, a steady stream of information would go a long way. Many people just want to be kept in the loop so they can make an informed decision. Thank you again for taking the time to hear my concerns. If you are interested in providing updates directly, you would be welcome at the AVS Forum.

The two main threads are:

Syracuse/Utica HDTV

Time Warner Navigator

Thanks Again,

Ben

Respectful, but to the point. My big problem is WHY would they totally revamp the website touting all this new stuff including Navigator which we were told we would have by Q1 LAST YEAR and then they have no plans, not even an idea of when these products are coming. It's completely ridiculous that the company is run this poorly. It's astonishing!

Great job Ben! And a Great Letter! Thanks for providing us with the SARA screen caps, and for linking TWC to our forums. I wish someone would read them who could make a positive difference for us. However, that seems to be wishful thinking.

Jack

I don't know about MDN, but on ODN (on an SA 8300HDC) you can put the box into diagnostic mode by holding the "Select" button on the front of the box till the mail symbol lights up, then pressing the down button.

Similar thing on MDN except you press SELECT on remote and then INFO.

SDB channel status is on page 23. (Current Service Info)

Jack asked for some actual SARA images to compare to Navigator and Passport, so I snapped a few to display. Mind you these are in the color scheme I prefer, not the default purple or pink.

Have TWC upgraded your version of SARA in the last 3 years or are you stuck at the point were they stopped upgrading Passport back in 2005?

Just to deviate from Navigator, But with so many recent complaints about the lack of proper communication and lack of on-going customer correspondence with regard to new features and services, it seems that Comcast, a competing cable company has a CEO who seems to be on the ball and has a direct e-mail and posititve communication productive oversight. Here's a page of information that talks about changes and improvements that he has made with Comcast:

http://www.comcast.com/Corporate/Customers/contactus/ContactUs.html

Try to contact Wisconsin Division's Jack Herbert or TWC's head CEO Glenn Britt to provide feedback and respond to customer concerns and improvements. Where are they and why can't they provide some positive customer communications like Comcast is doing, (or at least trying to do?) Some years ago, a Comcast tech was fired for sleeping on a customer's couch while waiting for a box to activate from his office. It seems that things have changed at Comcast and are much better under this leadership. TWC could be like this as well, if only they had leadership that cared and listened to its customers.

I think a lot of times, TWC management is sleeping on the couches! It's too bad, because their Road Runner and Digital Phone are excellent. But their cable TV service seems to be sub-standard and appears to be a nationwide problem. TWC must learn from Comcast to provide better communications training and management for its customers, as well as better qualified technicians and CSR.

The accountability and customer care with positive leadership at TWC, SUCKS!

Jack

The accountability and customer care with positive leadership at TWC, SUCKS!

Jack

Time Warner just announced a big round of layoffs too. Locally we are losing 3% of the workforce. They didn't specify what areas would be cut. I mean, they already crippled their techs by using no brain contractors who think Ohm's Law is the spinoff of Boston Legal. I'm done with Time Warner. I swear, if it wasn't -7 degrees out today, I'd be up on my roof and in my crawl space wiring for DirecTV. I'm sticking with my June deadline and TWC can continue to ruin it's video service. I just hope the RoadRunner service never gets this bad.

TWC: ’08 loss, layoffs, Clear launch
By Brian Santo
CedMagazine.com - February 04, 2009

Time Warner Cable said the recession and competition are taking their toll on its financial and operational results, but it intends to respond by redirecting resources in 2009 to its commercial services business (its best-growing segment) and by beginning to rollout wireless services, specifically the launch of Clear WiMAX in at least one of its markets.

In 2008, Time Warner Cable reported record cash flow, and the company increased its revenue in every service category, though growth rates decelerated as the year progressed, the recession worsened and competition ramped up. The company ended up experiencing operational losses in Q4 that wiped out financial gains from earlier in the year, leading to a fiscal-year loss of $7.3 billion.

During the frank and free-ranging Time Warner Cable Q4/FY 2008 conference call, TWC executives announced that they will be reducing headcount by 1,250 employees. CFO Rob Marcus said the company will be taking charges of $50 million to $100 million in 2009 associated with the separations.

That follows the layoff of 500 employees in 2008, associated with the restructuring of the company into six regional operating units. The company announced a further restructuring of those six units, consistent with the company’s new focus on commercial services.

TWC said it will reorganize the management of each of its six units so that each will be headed by three executives: one in charge of residential services, one for commercial services, and one to manage the plant and network operations. Having a single person in charge of infrastructure for both residential and commercial services should make it easier to standardize on infrastructure to serve both, explained CEO Glenn Britt.

http://www.cedmagazine.com/uploadedImages/Ced/Articles/TWC-Sub-Performance.gif
Source: Time Warner Cable


Britt said his takeaway from 2008 is that “we’re not immune to economic forces.” Nonetheless, he said, cable continues to grow as many other industries contract, and TWC continues to generate healthy free cash flow.

Britt asserted that cable remains a fundamentally strong business, based as it is on strong customer relationships. But that doesn’t mean it’s an easy business, or that it will get any easier.

Britt noted that competition from the phone companies is increasing. Telco competition has not grown any more intense, he said, but has expanded to a more significant fraction of TWC’s operating area. Verizon now overlaps TWC in 21 percent of the MSO’s footprint (it was 18 percent at the end of the third quarter and 6 percent at the end of 2007). U-verse overlap is now approximately double that of Verizon’s FiOS, Britt said. TWC lost very few basic subscribers to satellite competitors, he added.

In addition to the weak economy and increasing competition (largely from Verizon), TWC became one of the first MSOs to report having been affected by wireless substitution – subscribers canceling landline service in favor of wireless service.

Britt said it was hard to qualify the impact of wireless substitution, but said that customers looking to save money most often cited digital voice as the service they’re looking to cancel.

Looking ahead to 2009, the company said the market is not improving. Fewer consumers are moving, and there is less RGU growth, the TWC executives reported.

One response to wireless substitution is to provide a “meaningful” cellular product, Britt said. TWC plans to offer a product with Clearwire in at least one city in 2009.

He noted that commercial revenues grew at three times the rate of residential revenues, so TWC will focus on that.

He also said TWC expects to start seeing significant results from its participation in Canoe Ventures.

The company reported its switched digital video (SDV) rollout will be complete in 2009, with only some Motorola systems yet to be converted.

Britt said the company remains bullish on DOCSIS 3.0, but he called high speeds “a marketing ploy,” given that few subscribers need the speeds, and few people have PCs able to handle such high bandwidth. When it comes to DOCSIS 3.0, it’s needed largely to counter competitors offering high speeds. “We will play that game where we need to,” Britt said.

TWC has rolled out a new program guide, but TWC already has a new generation in development now, Britt said. Program guides won’t be static, he said, opining that subscribers may end up with a choice of guides to use.

Initial indications are that the DTV transition might not provide that big of a bonanza for cable. Britt said TWC has experience with two transitions. It has partial coverage in the Wilmington, N.C., market, and it received perhaps 5 percent of off-the-air consumers switching to TWC cable. TWC is also in Hawaii, which also transitioned early (story here). In Hawaii, TWC got a smaller percentage of people signing up, but Britt said the market is atypical, as TWC already has a high penetration there.

Britt said TWC expects to increase the number of markets with bandwidth caps.

Britt also addressed the challenge of content owners putting more and more video on the Web. “The impact of that, over time, will be to reduce customers,” he said flatly.

He noted that young people are especially willing to cut the cord when it comes to TV, in favor of getting free content via broadband. Free wins, he said, and there is a real danger that subscription revenue could erode. On the other hand, in order to get “free” content, consumers will still need broadband, and TWC has what Britt referred to as a nice broadband business.

“I think cable TV business will suffer mightily if the trend continues,” Britt said.

Also, CFO Rob Glaser said the company is considering a reverse stock split.

Separately, Time Warner Cable redesigned its Web site. It sports a cool blue background, several new features and new self-service tools.

The site includes an Online Knowledge Base, as well as Click-to-Talk and Click-to-Chat capabilities. In an upcoming enhancement, new support tools, including the “MyServices” section of the site, provide customers with the ability to access self care and account management options.

Note:I added emphasis on certain parts.

Well, there is certainly some telling information in this article. I like how TWC is blaming the failings of it's cable empire to everything but themselves. Economic conditions and competition certainly have to do with adjusting the business model, but just as we have been discussing here that much of the issue seems to be TWC's failing to do ANYTHING proactive to compete. I especially worried about the expansion of bandwidth caps to offset the loss of video subscribers. I highlighted the section about Navigator already having a replacement in the works. It's taking them what will be going on 4-5 years to deploy Navigator now and subs are getting a version that is still two generations behind everything else. Gee, maybe by 2015 they will deploy a guide that has features and options akin to what every other provider offers NOW!

Quick question regarding DD output with SA8300HDC. I have a 8300HDC with Navigator with TWC in Carrboro, NC. I am trying to output the audio to my Samsung 850 LCD via HDMI and also get DD through digital coax to my pre/pro. It seems like the 8300HDC will only only output 2-ch audio through the digital coax if I also run sound through the HDMI.

Is there a way around this? thanks in advance.

TWC: ’08 loss, layoffs, Clear launch
By Brian Santo
CedMagazine.com - February 04, 2009

Time Warner Cable said the recession and competition are taking their toll on its financial and operational results, but it intends to respond by redirecting resources in 2009 to its commercial services business (its best-growing segment) and by beginning to rollout wireless services, specifically the launch of Clear WiMAX in at least one of its markets.

In 2008, Time Warner Cable reported record cash flow, and the company increased its revenue in every service category, though growth rates decelerated as the year progressed, the recession worsened and competition ramped up. The company ended up experiencing operational losses in Q4 that wiped out financial gains from earlier in the year, leading to a fiscal-year loss of $7.3 billion.

During the frank and free-ranging Time Warner Cable Q4/FY 2008 conference call, TWC executives announced that they will be reducing headcount by 1,250 employees. CFO Rob Marcus said the company will be taking charges of $50 million to $100 million in 2009 associated with the separations.

That follows the layoff of 500 employees in 2008, associated with the restructuring of the company into six regional operating units. The company announced a further restructuring of those six units, consistent with the company’s new focus on commercial services.

TWC said it will reorganize the management of each of its six units so that each will be headed by three executives: one in charge of residential services, one for commercial services, and one to manage the plant and network operations. Having a single person in charge of infrastructure for both residential and commercial services should make it easier to standardize on infrastructure to serve both, explained CEO Glenn Britt.

http://www.cedmagazine.com/uploadedImages/Ced/Articles/TWC-Sub-Performance.gif
Source: Time Warner Cable


Britt said his takeaway from 2008 is that “we’re not immune to economic forces.” Nonetheless, he said, cable continues to grow as many other industries contract, and TWC continues to generate healthy free cash flow.

Britt asserted that cable remains a fundamentally strong business, based as it is on strong customer relationships. But that doesn’t mean it’s an easy business, or that it will get any easier.

Britt noted that competition from the phone companies is increasing. Telco competition has not grown any more intense, he said, but has expanded to a more significant fraction of TWC’s operating area. Verizon now overlaps TWC in 21 percent of the MSO’s footprint (it was 18 percent at the end of the third quarter and 6 percent at the end of 2007). U-verse overlap is now approximately double that of Verizon’s FiOS, Britt said. TWC lost very few basic subscribers to satellite competitors, he added.

In addition to the weak economy and increasing competition (largely from Verizon), TWC became one of the first MSOs to report having been affected by wireless substitution – subscribers canceling landline service in favor of wireless service.

Britt said it was hard to qualify the impact of wireless substitution, but said that customers looking to save money most often cited digital voice as the service they’re looking to cancel.

Looking ahead to 2009, the company said the market is not improving. Fewer consumers are moving, and there is less RGU growth, the TWC executives reported.

One response to wireless substitution is to provide a “meaningful” cellular product, Britt said. TWC plans to offer a product with Clearwire in at least one city in 2009.

He noted that commercial revenues grew at three times the rate of residential revenues, so TWC will focus on that.

He also said TWC expects to start seeing significant results from its participation in Canoe Ventures.

The company reported its switched digital video (SDV) rollout will be complete in 2009, with only some Motorola systems yet to be converted.

Britt said the company remains bullish on DOCSIS 3.0, but he called high speeds “a marketing ploy,” given that few subscribers need the speeds, and few people have PCs able to handle such high bandwidth. When it comes to DOCSIS 3.0, it’s needed largely to counter competitors offering high speeds. “We will play that game where we need to,” Britt said.

TWC has rolled out a new program guide, but TWC already has a new generation in development now, Britt said. Program guides won’t be static, he said, opining that subscribers may end up with a choice of guides to use.

Initial indications are that the DTV transition might not provide that big of a bonanza for cable. Britt said TWC has experience with two transitions. It has partial coverage in the Wilmington, N.C., market, and it received perhaps 5 percent of off-the-air consumers switching to TWC cable. TWC is also in Hawaii, which also transitioned early (story here). In Hawaii, TWC got a smaller percentage of people signing up, but Britt said the market is atypical, as TWC already has a high penetration there.

Britt said TWC expects to increase the number of markets with bandwidth caps.

Britt also addressed the challenge of content owners putting more and more video on the Web. “The impact of that, over time, will be to reduce customers,” he said flatly.

He noted that young people are especially willing to cut the cord when it comes to TV, in favor of getting free content via broadband. Free wins, he said, and there is a real danger that subscription revenue could erode. On the other hand, in order to get “free” content, consumers will still need broadband, and TWC has what Britt referred to as a nice broadband business.

“I think cable TV business will suffer mightily if the trend continues,” Britt said.

Also, CFO Rob Glaser said the company is considering a reverse stock split.

Separately, Time Warner Cable redesigned its Web site. It sports a cool blue background, several new features and new self-service tools.

The site includes an Online Knowledge Base, as well as Click-to-Talk and Click-to-Chat capabilities. In an upcoming enhancement, new support tools, including the “MyServices” section of the site, provide customers with the ability to access self care and account management options.

Note:I added emphasis on certain parts.

Well, there is certainly some telling information in this article. I like how TWC is blaming the failings of it's cable empire to everything but themselves. Economic conditions and competition certainly have to do with adjusting the business model, but just as we have been discussing here that much of the issue seems to be TWC's failing to do ANYTHING proactive to compete. I especially worried about the expansion of bandwidth caps to offset the loss of video subscribers. I highlighted the section about Navigator already having a replacement in the works. It's taking them what will be going on 4-5 years to deploy Navigator now and subs are getting a version that is still two generations behind everything else. Gee, maybe by 2015 they will deploy a guide that has features and options akin to what every other provider offers NOW!

The way they are going maybe the Triad area of NC will have Navigator by 2015.

Quick question regarding DD output with SA8300HDC. I have a 8300HDC with Navigator with TWC in Carrboro, NC. I am trying to output the audio to my Samsung 850 LCD via HDMI and also get DD through digital coax to my pre/pro. It seems like the 8300HDC will only only output 2-ch audio through the digital coax if I also run sound through the HDMI.

Is there a way around this? thanks in advance.

in the audo settings change HDMI to Dobly Digital

Keep in mind that the 8300 boxes are notoriously buggy using HDMI unless you set a fixed resolution. I've yet to complete an install with an 8300 (both HD & HDC) that worked properly through HDMI. Since Time Warner in my division has no real plans to get new equipment or deploy Navigator as well as rolling out HD at a snails pace, I have decided to switch to satellite. The only channel I like that DirecTV is lacking is TravelHD and I'm certain it's only a matter of time until they add it. Time Warner is just way to far behind the curve.

in the audo settings change HDMI to Dobly Digital

When I change this to DD, I get DD output through the dig coax, but I lose audio on HDMI. I am trying to get both (ie. 90% of the time the TV is just on - HDMI; 10% of the time I am wanting to use the pre/pro for DD).

Keep in mind that the 8300 boxes are notoriously buggy using HDMI unless you set a fixed resolution. I've yet to complete an install with an 8300 (both HD & HDC) that worked properly through HDMI. Since Time Warner in my division has no real plans to get new equipment or deploy Navigator as well as rolling out HD at a snails pace, I have decided to switch to satellite. The only channel I like that DirecTV is lacking is TravelHD and I'm certain it's only a matter of time until they add it. Time Warner is just way to far behind the curve.

I actually have the output fixed at 1080i (improves the channel changing speeds and I do not notice any difference in PQ from auto) and all appears to work through the HDMI.

If Dolby Digital output is selected, should the 8300 send DD through the HDMI AND the Coax? If so, then maybe my TV is not set up (or cannot be) to accept DD.

thanks,
Mike

Yes, that could be an issue. Check your TV specs. You may have to run a standard stereo patch cable if you are not using an AVR.

If Dolby Digital output is selected, should the 8300 send DD through the HDMI AND the Coax? If so, then maybe my TV is not set up (or cannot be) to accept DD.

Yes it should. The problem that's been a regular fixture with HDMI and the 8300 series even back in the Passport days is that the box will sense the audio your TV can handle and then set the digital out jacks to that as well. That means if your TV cannot accept DD over HDMI it will downgrade the other jacks too.

I can't remember how we got around this in the old days. I think it was by way of the macro to switch between DD 5.1 and 2 channels over HDMI. If I remember correctly an older Passport version didn't have a DD option and you got stuck with either HDMI audio selection or 2 channel. At least in this version of Nav you have the choice to force DD 5.1 over output jacks when using HDMI.

The other alternative is to go back to component to the TV and DD out to the AVR. Not as sexy, but on the 8300 there's barely (if any) noticeable difference using component over HDMI.

Yes it should. The problem that's been a regular fixture with HDMI and the 8300 series even back in the Passport days is that the box will sense the audio your TV can handle and then set the digital out jacks to that as well. That means if your TV cannot accept DD over HDMI it will downgrade the other jacks too.

I can't remember how we got around this in the old days. I think it was by way of the macro to switch between DD 5.1 and 2 channels over HDMI. If I remember correctly an older Passport version didn't have a DD option and you got stuck with either HDMI audio selection or 2 channel. At least in this version of Nav you have the choice to force DD 5.1 over output jacks when using HDMI.

The other alternative is to go back to component to the TV and DD out to the AVR. Not as sexy, but on the 8300 there's barely (if any) noticeable difference using component over HDMI.

Thanks neighbor!

that makes sense. I never thought about a macro to make a one button switch (I have a harmony one, so that should be easy).

Thanks neighbor!

that makes sense. I never thought about a macro to make a one button switch (I have a harmony one, so that should be easy).

it will require some careful planning of LEFT, RIGHT, UP, SELECT etc. but it's possible. However it also means it only takes one missed IR command to throw the whole sequence off so it's not a great workaround.

How much of a difference is there in picture quality using HDMI vs. Conventional Coax Cable? I've heard several people say, "not much." If these boxes have such problems with HDMI, and the pic quality is not that different, why not use Coax, at least until your box cooperates with HDMI?

Is it correct that TWC when they do their own installs WILL NOT bring an HDMI cable?

Jack

How much of a difference is there in picture quality using HDMI vs. Conventional Coax Cable? I've heard several people say, "not much." If these boxes have such problems with HDMI, and the pic quality is not that different, why not use Coax, at least until your box cooperates with HDMI?

Is it correct that TWC when they do their own installs WILL NOT bring an HDMI cable?


Coax? I hope you mean for audio!

No TWC never bring an HDMI cable only basic component. They probably don't want to have to explain the bugs that occur using HDMI when they hook the box up.

When I change this to DD, I get DD output through the dig coax, but I lose audio on HDMI. I am trying to get both (ie. 90% of the time the TV is just on - HDMI; 10% of the time I am wanting to use the pre/pro for DD).

That's the way it works - last few versions of Passport worked the same.

I haven't used my TV's speakers for 3 years, once you get used to the sound through your AVR, you won't be able to listen to the TV speakers (sort of like watching SD instead of HD); especially if you have a good center-channel speaker.

Any chance this thread can get a summery in the first post?
I'd like to know where i stand on the various versions etc floating around out there. AKA do i have something to hope/hight for cause TBH i find my current interface really really bad. (unintuitive)
What i got is an SA Explorer 8300HDC box, the diag menu says network version 2.4.10_11, bootup says mystro after the cisco/java/other splash screens..

How much of a difference is there in picture quality using HDMI vs. Conventional Coax Cable? I've heard several people say, "not much." If these boxes have such problems with HDMI, and the pic quality is not that different, why not use Coax, at least until your box cooperates with HDMI?

Is it correct that TWC when they do their own installs WILL NOT bring an HDMI cable?

JackI'm sure you don't mean coax. Your choices for hi-def are HDMI and component. You're right, TWC generally does not install HDMI, but they will give you the component cables (mine were about 8' long). However, at the time I got my box, HDMI did not work very well, and since then they've fixed the HDMI bugs (at least in ODN).

Any chance this thread can get a summery in the first post?
I'd like to know where i stand on the various versions etc floating around out there. AKA do i have something to hope/hight for cause TBH i find my current interface really really bad. (unintuitive)
What i got is an SA Explorer 8300HDC box, the diag menu says network version 2.4.10_11, bootup says mystro after the cisco/java/other splash screens..

You can't get a summary because there's about 5 different versions of Navigator floating around across two different platforms that update randomly across TWC markets.

If you want to know what the most recent version is in your area you first need to mention your area. Otherwise just keep reading or do a search. First signs of a new version are a surprise to all of us

That's the way it works - last few versions of Passport worked the same.

I haven't used my TV's speakers for 3 years, once you get used to the sound through your AVR, you won't be able to listen to the TV speakers (sort of like watching SD instead of HD); especially if you have a good center-channel speaker.

This is a hardware issue. Scientific Atlanta's and Cisco's boxes are incapable of sending the audio out in different formats out of its digital audio outputs, which include HDMI, S/PDIF, and TOSLINK.

If I had any influence in the hardware design, I would have two independent digital audio outputs (one going to the HDMI port, while the other one goes to all of the other digital outputs), where the software could determine each one which format to output. The chaining of the HDMI and both the S/PDIF and TOSLINK ports to the same format is ridiculous.

In short, blame the hardware, not the software which is doing its best to give you all of the options in this hardware mess, much like how the 8300HD(C) and below cannot draw to the full screen on a 16x9 screen.

I'm sure you don't mean coax. Your choices for hi-def are HDMI and component. You're right, TWC generally does not install HDMI, but they will give you the component cables (mine were about 8' long). However, at the time I got my box, HDMI did not work very well, and since then they've fixed the HDMI bugs (at least in ODN).

Component video cables typically ARE coax, as are composite and s-video cables.

Component video cables typically ARE coax, as are composite and s-video cables.His exact words were "Conventional Coax Cable". I would think that in the context of connecting a STB to a TV most people would take that to mean the RG6 type coax used by cable companies to deliver TV service. In the old days, that was the only way to connect them and you would be amazed to see how many people still have a HDTV connected that way.

Keep in mind that the 8300 boxes are notoriously buggy using HDMI unless you set a fixed resolution. I've yet to complete an install with an 8300 (both HD & HDC) that worked properly through HDMI.

Can't say that it's division specific, but I've ben using HDMI without any fixed resolution for 3-4 years at least with not one hiccup. I use an optical cable to go to my AVR AND do change audio settings at least once per day (late night, I set the 8300 to HDMI so I get audio from the TV and turn the AVR off, then change it back to Dolby Digital so audio ONLY goes to my AVR).

When I change this to DD, I get DD output through the dig coax, but I lose audio on HDMI. I am trying to get both (ie. 90% of the time the TV is just on - HDMI; 10% of the time I am wanting to use the pre/pro for DD).

Hmmm, set to HDMI I get audio through HDMI to my TV AND to my AVR through the optical cable. Set to DD, I get audio ONLY through the optical cable. This is perfect for me.

Can't say that it's division specific, but I've ben using HDMI without any fixed resolution for 3-4 years at least with not one hiccup. I use an optical cable to go to my AVR AND do change audio settings at least once per day (late night, I set the 8300 to HDMI so I get audio from the TV and turn the AVR off, then change it back to Dolby Digital so audio ONLY goes to my AVR).

Have you ever had success using SARA software? That's all we have and I've yet to get it to work on an 8300 DVR. I did one with a 4850HDC that worked, but that's it.

Can't say that it's division specific, but I've ben using HDMI without any fixed resolution for 3-4 years at least with not one hiccup.

Same here... all resolutions are activated on the box side and the TV sorts it out. Other than the TV maybe taking a 1-1.5 seconds to lock up on a new resolution when channel surfing, the box and TV play very nice together via HDMI. (8300HDC/ODN/Samsung A550 series)

Same here... all resolutions are activated on the box side and the TV sorts it out. Other than the TV maybe taking a 1-1.5 seconds to lock up on a new resolution when channel surfing, the box and TV play very nice together via HDMI. (8300HDC/ODN/Samsung A550 series)

Yes, the Sammnies switch fairly quickly. One block from me, my sister has a Sony and that TV takes a LOT longer to switch resolutions. Then again, she never channel surfs, so slow switches aren't near as much an issue with her.

I'm getting another demonstration that Navigator does not seem to cope with schedule changes. My list of scheduled recordings shows House at 8PM while the program guide indicates that the president is preempting everything in that time slot. Seems that once the schedule manager gets it in its head that it needs to record something, it never looks again. Guess it's better to record the wrong thing than miss one that should have recorded.

I'm getting another demonstration that Navigator does not seem to cope with schedule changes. My list of scheduled recordings shows House at 8PM while the program guide indicates that the president is preempting everything in that time slot. Seems that once the schedule manager gets it in its head that it needs to record something, it never looks again. Guess it's better to record the wrong thing than miss one that should have recorded.

A lot of times my SARA guide shows something that is preemptied to be recorded but when the actual time arrives it does not record. Think it uses that spot as a place holder. Maybe Navigator does the same thing.

What's the latest MDN release? I have 2.4.4-14 on my box (TWC San Diego). I've seen postings regarding a -15 revision, and occasionally -16 revision. (I'm wondering why TWC San Diego hasn't updated the 2.4.4 we have).

A lot of times my SARA guide shows something that is preemptied to be recorded but when the actual time arrives it does not record. Think it uses that spot as a place holder. Maybe Navigator does the same thing.We'll see. The reason I said it was "another demonstration" is because the last time the president preempted things (1/15/09), I ended up with two unnecessary recordings in that time slot.

I'm getting another demonstration that Navigator does not seem to cope with schedule changes. My list of scheduled recordings shows House at 8PM while the program guide indicates that the president is preempting everything in that time slot. Seems that once the schedule manager gets it in its head that it needs to record something, it never looks again. Guess it's better to record the wrong thing than miss one that should have recorded.

Yes,

This is frustrating. We have the same issues where if a sport is rain delayed, say Baseball as part of a series. The guide will often show data from the previous day and it could take 24-48 hours for the correct data to synchronize. We have ME-TV in Milwaukee, which shows old sitcoms. Just to illustrate by example, we had Bewitched at 6:30 PM. Last week, it was announced that The Brady Bunch is replacing Bewitched in the 6:30 slot starting on Monday. The IPG still shows Bewitched. Not interested in recording it, but it raises a question using this illustration:

Would I get The Brady Bunch at 6:30 if the station has changed from Bewitched to Brady Bunch in that time slot? OR:

Do I get a "Set Top Was Unable to Record The Program" because the Scheduled Recording List expects Bewitched and gets The Brady Bunch instead?

If anyone has run into similar issues, post. But I don't think this is a Navigator issue as it is an IPG issue with the cable data at the head end. As Passport, Navigator, and SARA are all affiliated TWC software, it's an issue of when the head-end data is updated, more so than the type of IPG used in your division.

Interestingly enough when I had ME TV on Channel 201 and it was changed to THIS-TV, a program that I had saved when it used to be METV WAS saved and played back with the guide showing the new station and channel number. I think in most cases, I would favor the accuracy of the IPG grid over the scheduled recordings list. If you sense a conflict may occur, you would have to delete the scheduled recording and select the new show from the IPG. If President Obama is going to speak, the recording list may not have the ability to update "automatically" for "on the fly" changes. Your recording of "House" will either be Obama speaking for the duration of the time that House" would have recorded, or you will get a "Set Top Can't Record The Program."

To this day, I still have not gotten a universally agreed to answer from anyone at TWC (or at least a consensus) as to how Navigator defines a New Recording. I have seen episodes marked as "new" that have repeated several times, BUT not as much of an issue as it was with earlier versions of Navigator.

Jack

Well for the moment TWC seems to be operateing 3 guides. The few remaining Passport guides out there, A ton 75% of their boxs with SARA. And lest we forget goood old Navigator. So Time Warner your plan seems to be working. Now whatever the plan is please let us know as soon as your suits figure out what it is other than mass confusion.

In case any of you missed the article I posted a few spots back, TWC is already working on Navigator's replacement. They said they hope to offer a choice of guides, whatever that means. I posted another article that was telling how TWC is taking a beating right now and sub growth was down 64% this year. They are looking to expand capping Internet use or metering it as a revenue stream because people are dumping their cable.

In case any of you missed the article I posted a few spots back, TWC is already working on Navigator's replacement. They said they hope to offer a choice of guides, whatever that means. I posted another article that was telling how TWC is taking a beating right now and sub growth was down 64% this year. They are looking to expand capping Internet use or metering it as a revenue stream because people are dumping their cable.

I really didn't read that as 'Navigator's replacement' I think it is just Navigator 2.0...

xnappo

In case any of you missed the article I posted a few spots back, TWC is already working on Navigator's replacement.

By the time Navigator's replacement rolls around, given 2 years of testing, another 3 years to get bugs out of the system and another 5 years to universally deploy, the rest of the industry may be too far ahead for TWC to catch up. It is way too hard to predict what the cable industry will be like at that time

I honestly think that most of us will be too old to care or dead by the time TWC comes up with a revolutionary guide that is not buggy and people actually like. OK, maybe not that long! But look at how long they have spent trying to get Navigator to work, the boxes to behave right, and catch up to the competition. If a new IPG is in development, does that mean that perhaps TWC believes Navigator is/was a mistake? Or they are just looking to create another guide?

Any new IPG I think is at least 5 years away and I will bet 7 years will have to pass, before it will get up to a decent standard.

Jack

In case any of you missed the article I posted a few spots back, TWC is already working on Navigator's replacement. They said they hope to offer a choice of guides, whatever that means.I'm not sure how difficult it would have been for them to do this with their old system of firmware downloading, but with OCAP it should be a fairly easy matter for them to do this.

Comcast had TiVo develop a version of their guide (http://www.comcast.com/Tivo/) to offer as an option (I think that it's $5/month extra). I'm not sure what the standard guide is on the systems which offer this.

I really didn't read that as 'Navigator's replacement' I think it is just Navigator 2.0...

xnappo

I guess it's how one looks at it. The quote from the article said:

TWC has rolled out a new program guide, but TWC already has a new generation in development now, Britt said. Program guides won’t be static, he said, opining that subscribers may end up with a choice of guides to use.

I take this as to mean an upgrade in Navigator, but what type of upgrade would remain to be seen. I read it as a new version seeing as how he states it's not static and customers would then have a choice of which guide to use. It might be akin to say Windows. Windows XP is an upgrade of Windows 98' yet totally different.

I guess it's how one looks at it. The quote from the article said:

TWC has rolled out a new program guide, but TWC already has a new generation in development now, Britt said. Program guides won’t be static, he said, opining that subscribers may end up with a choice of guides to use.

I take this as to mean an upgrade in Navigator, but what type of upgrade would remain to be seen. I read it as a new version seeing as how he states it's not static and customers would then have a choice of which guide to use. It might be akin to say Windows. Windows XP is an upgrade of Windows 98' yet totally different.

a choice of guides = Tru2Way

a choice of guides = Tru2WayThat's exactly what I was saying. With tru2way, an optional, higher feature guide is just another application to sell to the subscriber.

does this article mean we time warner customers will be seeing the tru2way movie guide? Isn't engadget pretty reliable ? :confused:


http://www.engadgethd.com/tag/tru2way/

does this article mean we time warner customers will be seeing the tru2way movie guide?

It means some TWC customers might. Somewhere. At some undisclosed point in the future.

Just ask yourself when you last saw one of those Tru2Way-enabled Samsung TVs that were announced over a year ago. That should give you a time frame of expectation.

That tru2way guide sure does look really sweet . Sure is easy on the eyes ...well made not as good as the rollerink pink (j/k) ...now there is genuine color scheme for your guide!:)

That tru2way guide sure does look really sweet . Sure is easy on the eyes ...well made not as good as the rollerink pink (j/k) ...now there is genuine color scheme for your guide!:)

Honestly, it looks pretty much like what DirecTV has right now.

I have no faith any longer with TWC. First, we are getting Navigator (Q1 2008) - didn't happen, then we were getting new HD content - still waiting, then the new website actually showing Navigator only to be told it's not even on the radar. This coupled with the lack of new hardware has done it for me. I'm sick of empty promises from TWC and my local division. I just wish DirecTV would get TravelHD already!

Honestly, it looks pretty much like what DirecTV has right now.

I have no faith any longer with TWC. First, we are getting Navigator (Q1 2008) - didn't happen, then we were getting new HD content - still waiting, then the new website actually showing Navigator only to be told it's not even on the radar. This coupled with the lack of new hardware has done it for me. I'm sick of empty promises from TWC and my local division. I just wish DirecTV would get TravelHD already!

If Navigator is not comeing anytime soon TWC should at least pay to give subs the latest Sara upgrades. It's been years since mine was upgraded.

We'll see. The reason I said it was "another demonstration" is because the last time the president preempted things (1/15/09), I ended up with two unnecessary recordings in that time slot.

Last night I had the Presidents press conferance scheduled. House also showed up to be recorded. At 8:00. A new House place holder for next week's new episode was set by my SARA 8300hd at 8:00 and the Presidents press speech was recorded on the same channel that I had set by manual recording. I do not know how Navigator handles this but that is how SARA did. I only got the manual recording I had set.

Last night I had the Presidents press conferance scheduled. House also showed up to be recorded. At 8:00. A new House place holder for next week's new episode was set by my SARA 8300hd at 8:00 and the Presidents press speech was recorded on the same channel that I had set by manual recording. I do not know how Navigator handles this but that is how SARA did. I only got the manual recording I had set.Navigator recorded the President thinking it was House.

Navigator recorded the President thinking it was House.

not for me. for me house disapeared as a scheduled recording. and it did not record the president.
on CBS i had 2.5 men, how i met your mother, big bang etc. scheduled.
2.5 men and big bang were moved to 9 and 9.30 in the guide. how i met your mother didnt air. it didnt record the president in this instance either. how i met your mother was removed from my scheduled list and it did record 2.5 men and big bang theory.

Navigator recorded the President thinking it was House.

Not trying to be rude. Maybe if you exchange boxes you will get a version of Navigator that is not flawed. I know that it's a pain to do that but sometimes a new box will have bug fixes done in them.

Not trying to be rude. Maybe if you exchange boxes you will get a version of Navigator that is not flawed. I know that it's a pain to do that but sometimes a new box will have bug fixes done in them.
Gosh, I'm quite happy with the box I have. I would never think of exchanging boxes over something this minor.:confused: Not to mention all the recordings I would lose. Also, unless you get a different model, you're always going to get the same version of Navigator. No, bad idea.

Not trying to be rude. Maybe if you exchange boxes you will get a version of Navigator that is not flawed. I know that it's a pain to do that but sometimes a new box will have bug fixes done in them.

I think my version of ODN is pretty much up to date and mine recorded the Prez on two channels, thinking they were Chuck & House. Funny thing is that the guide and banner did list the Prez being on, not the shows.

not for me. for me house disapeared as a scheduled recording. and it did not record the president. Yet another difference between MDN and ODN.;)

I'm hearing reports that MDN 2.4.4-16 is showing up here in Columbus today (I haven't been home yet to confirm). Our current/former version is/was 2.4.4-108. Does anyone have a list of improvements/fixes/changes in the latest versions? I haven't found anything yet by Googling or by searching TWC websites.

What's amazing is that Time Warner doesn't post release notes so end users have no idea what is being fixed or changed.

I am in Columbus, and got my upgrade to 2.4.4-16 at 3am. Other then the color of the menus and info bars, I don't see much different.

I look forward to hearing what differences there are.

It's unfortunate, but I don't think I'm going to get a chance to try Navigator. Maybe I'll see it in my travels from NY to SC coming up because I'd really like to try/see it in action. However, I've already begun wiring and getting the hardware to run my needed cables for OTA/Network/DirecTV. I just need the massive snow pile behind my house to melt so I can get things ready.

Yet another difference between MDN and ODN.;)

MDN is actually decent. ODN is a piece of ****.

I have both. An 8300HD with MDN and a 4250HDC with ODN. The 8300 works flawlessly most of the time. The 4250, not so much.

Plus they even look different. MDN has a normal, decent sized channel banner, different settings options and cool fade effects on menus. Plus the ODN vs. MDN DVR are far different.

I don't understand why the appearance cannot be the same across versions. ODN has been running since sometime in 2007, MDN since early 2008, so you'd think the respective version of each product would look similar, for continuity.

MDN is actually decent. ODN is a piece of ****.

I have both. An 8300HD with MDN and a 4250HDC with ODN. The 8300 works flawlessly most of the time. The 4250, not so much.

Plus they even look different. MDN has a normal, decent sized channel banner, different settings options and cool fade effects on menus. Plus the ODN vs. MDN DVR are far different.

I don't understand why the appearance cannot be the same across versions. ODN has been running since sometime in 2007, MDN since early 2008, so you'd think the respective version of each product would look similar, for continuity.

Is it possible the differences you see are from the 4000 vs 8000 series boxes? Are the latest version of each OS loaded on each box? I only have ODN running on an 8300HDC, but other than a slightly darker (better) shade of blue on the channel banners and on demand menus, it looks and works almost identically to a friends 8300HD/MDN. I actually like the latest version of ODN loaded to my box... the only thing I really miss is the 1 minute commercial skip button that I have on my Panasonic DVR .

Is it possible the differences you see are from the 4000 vs 8000 series boxes? Are the latest version of each OS loaded on each box? I only have ODN running on an 8300HDC, but other than a slightly darker (better) shade of blue on the channel banners and on demand menus, it looks and works almost identically to a friends 8300HD/MDN. I actually like the latest version of ODN loaded to my box... the only thing I really miss is the 1 minute commercial skip button that I have on my Panasonic DVR .

One is OCAP, one is not.

But I have had an OCAP DVR (that I was luckily able to ditch shortly after getting) and the UI looks IDENTICAL to the 4250HDC. Only thing missing is the DVR functions.

As far as versions, I have no clue. I know the OCAP version has to be terribly outdated, since the same bugs I experienced with the OCAP DVR over a year ago are still present in the 4250HDC I got last month. The only upgrade with MDN was a behind-the-scenes update, probably for SDV, since it is now active now.

For me, I'll NEVER "like" anything bearing the mystro name. MDN is tolerable. ODN is OK, since it is not a DVR. If it were a DVR, it would be "throw at the wall, drag back to cableco chained to bumper" worthy.

Personally, I'd rather have SARA. Or that newer version of Passport that is supposed to be SDV and OCAP capable.

I don't understand why the appearance cannot be the same across versions.

I suspect the differences have to do with the fact that they are each written in a different programming language.

MDN is written in C language.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_(programming_language)

ODN is written in Java language.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_(programming_language)

ODN runs on OCAP boxes that comply with new FCC regulations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenCable_Application_Platform

I only have ODN running on an 8300HDC, but other than a slightly darker (better) shade of blue on the channel banners and on demand menus, it looks and works almost identically to a friends 8300HD/MDN. I actually like the latest version of ODN loaded to my box... the only thing I really miss is the 1 minute commercial skip button that I have on my Panasonic DVR .

the reports concerning how ODN handled scheduled recordings when the guide changed when the prez. preempted scheduled programing is enough reason for me to be glad i held on to my MDN box. its also justified reason to call ODN a piece of ****.

the reports concerning how ODN handled scheduled recordings when the guide changed when the prez. preempted scheduled programing is enough reason for me to be glad i held on to my MDN box. its also justified reason to call ODN a piece of ****.

Both my SARA boxes handled the Presidents speech and scheduled programing changes flawlessly.

just noticed a feature i had never noticed before.
last night i had fringe scheduled to record, my son had dirty jobs scheduled. i decided i wanted to record the mentalist. so i got the usual pop up saying i already have 2 recordings and the normal options. i chose not to record dirty jobs.
today i notice that it indeed did record all 3 shows. it simply chose to record the 1am airing of dirty jobs after i told it not to record the 9pm airing. in the recording log it shows the 9pm airing as not recorded because a user canceled the recording. dirty jobs is not set up as a series recording so how it knew or decided to record it at a later time is beyond me.

Both my SARA boxes handled the Presidents speech and scheduled programing changes flawlessly.

yes .. but we arent discussing SARA.

the reports concerning how ODN handled scheduled recordings when the guide changed when the prez. preempted scheduled programing is enough reason for me to be glad i held on to my MDN box. its also justified reason to call ODN a piece of ****.I'm generally not one to defend Navigator. God knows it's had its problems. This however is nothing to get emotional over. Not recognizing that the original program was preempted is no big deal. It caused no harm or inconvenience; all I had to do is delete the program. Please, save your vitriol for the real problems. You're likely to have more credibility.

just noticed a feature i had never noticed before.
last night i had fringe scheduled to record, my son had dirty jobs scheduled. i decided i wanted to record the mentalist. so i got the usual pop up saying i already have 2 recordings and the normal options. i chose not to record dirty jobs.
today i notice that it indeed did record all 3 shows. it simply chose to record the 1am airing of dirty jobs after i told it not to record the 9pm airing. in the recording log it shows the 9pm airing as not recorded because a user canceled the recording. dirty jobs is not set up as a series recording so how it knew or decided to record it at a later time is beyond me.I went through this every Monday with Heros, 24, and The Closer. When I cancel the Closer, it never has a problem finding and scheduling another airing. I finally found that if I lower the priority of The Closer, it will even do it automatically without intervention.

One is OCAP, one is not.

But I have had an OCAP DVR (that I was luckily able to ditch shortly after getting) and the UI looks IDENTICAL to the 4250HDC. Only thing missing is the DVR functions.

As far as versions, I have no clue. I know the OCAP version has to be terribly outdated, since the same bugs I experienced with the OCAP DVR over a year ago are still present in the 4250HDC I got last month. The only upgrade with MDN was a behind-the-scenes update, probably for SDV, since it is now active now.

For me, I'll NEVER "like" anything bearing the mystro name. MDN is tolerable. ODN is OK, since it is not a DVR. If it were a DVR, it would be "throw at the wall, drag back to cableco chained to bumper" worthy.

Personally, I'd rather have SARA. Or that newer version of Passport that is supposed to be SDV and OCAP capable.

That was my point... that you may have an older ODN version because I see virtually no discernible differences between the versions of MDN and ODN that we have here in Charlotte. My friend's 8300HD/MDN, another friends 8300/MDN (non-HD) and my 8300HDC/ODN all look and program almost exactly the same... minor color differences and slightly different edge details on the banner is about it. ODN looks better because of these differences but operates just about the same. I have also not seen any of the "neat fade effects" or transparencies in any MDN (or ODN) box here.

I don't know, however, if their MDN boxes handled the Prez preemptions any differently.

It's unfortunate, but I don't think I'm going to get a chance to try Navigator. Maybe I'll see it in my travels from NY to SC coming up because I'd really like to try/see it in action. However, I've already begun wiring and getting the hardware to run my needed cables for OTA/Network/DirecTV. I just need the massive snow pile behind my house to melt so I can get things ready.

Ben,

How long have you had your box? How well does it work? If it works well, I would keep it. But if it doesn't work well and/or if you had a second tv that you could cabilize, maybe you would (could) get an updated version of SARA on a different box? Or would SARA still be the same crap on a new box?

I heard that it appears that SARA users are going to be the last to get Navigator. But like you said, no one knows how far in that future that future is. I think you may have the worst TWC division in terms of competency and information availability!

You know what? I would almost say, if the weather warms up next month to maybe April at the latest (instead of June) you should give Direct TV a call at that time. Are you still going to keep your Digital Phone and Roadrunner Service with TWC? I hope that if you do, you can still get a good enough deal with Direct TV. This run-around that you are getting from TWC is just such bull$hit!

Jack

I will see what they say. I have to keep RoadRunner and am happy with the phone service, but might be able to knock off another $10-15 going with Vonage. I'll see what they offer. I may not wait until June, but alot depends on when I have time off and how soon I get my wiring done. I can tolerate the service for now, but am definitely looking to move on.

I'm generally not one to defend Navigator. God knows it's had its problems. This however is nothing to get emotional over. Not recognizing that the original program was preempted is no big deal. It caused no harm or inconvenience; all I had to do is delete the program. Please, save your vitriol for the real problems. You're likely to have more credibility.

no emotion here.at least not from me, but for some reason i am detecting a little unnecessary animosity from you. perhaps you are reading more into my statement than what it actually says. you sure are taking it awful personal for it to have been no big deal.:p and i dont seek my credibility to be substantiated by you. you're welcome to believe whomever you wish. aint no skin off my a**:)
other than a closed captioning issue that lasted a couple of months my old MDN box has never given me one ounce of problems. certainly nothing comparable to the issues raised here by ODN users.
therefor i am certainly glad i kept it.:D

I went through this every Monday with Heros, 24, and The Closer. When I cancel the Closer, it never has a problem finding and scheduling another airing. I finally found that if I lower the priority of The Closer, it will even do it automatically without intervention.

sweet. never noticed it before. i'll try lowering the priority. and maybe i'll be able to watch chuck someday. thanks

You know what? I would almost say, if the weather warms up next month to maybe April at the latest (instead of June) you should give Direct TV a call at that time.

I would say if you think you are going to switch to Direct in the spring, you should do it now instead to beat the March price increases. You can still get the current deals and old pricing (with 12 mos lock) if you order and install in February.

I will see what they say. I have to keep RoadRunner and am happy with the phone service, but might be able to knock off another $10-15 going with Vonage. I'll see what they offer. I may not wait until June, but alot depends on when I have time off and how soon I get my wiring done. I can tolerate the service for now, but am definitely looking to move on.
Are you unable to get DSL from your local phone company? Here in Ohio, AT&T has some pretty good pricing when combining phone and DSL service. They even offer a couple hundred bucks in rebates when switching from cable.

Both my SARA boxes handled the Presidents speech and scheduled programing changes flawlessly.

Ahhh, how I wish we had SARA. :D:D:D:D

yes .. but we arent discussing SARA.

I understand that. Was compareing it to how Navigator worked. Read up and you might understand the discussion.

I have a 8300HDC,
If you pause it for awhile, it totally stops working and has to be hard rebooted, It also reboots on watching TV, running navigator. My HD8300 has none of the reliability issues. Should I attempt to trade out the HDC, is there any other option, does the 8300 support HDMI now?

Thanks for your consideration

I will see what they say. I have to keep RoadRunner and am happy with the phone service, but might be able to knock off another $10-15 going with Vonage. I'll see what they offer. I may not wait until June, but alot depends on when I have time off and how soon I get my wiring done. I can tolerate the service for now, but am definitely looking to move on.

I can't see any reason to not switch if you have an option. I switched to Vonage today. It is much cheaper than TWC and it also includes free calls to major European countries (which I make).

The only advantage TWC have over Vonage is that Navigator displays the caller ID. Well, if it's switched on in your area that is.

Since every phone I have has an ID display and I'm never more than 3 feet away from a cordless phone when I'm sat in front of the TV having it display on the TV is just saving me reaching over for the phone. I'm lazy but not enough to pay $15 to save me outstretching my arm. :)

Plus the Vonage box is eay to install. If you have a router you can put it anywhere if the ethernet cable is long enough without having to mess up your existing network connections near the computer. Plug into router. Plug phone in. Power on. Done.

Caller ID on TV is such a small example of user interactive service. It's mostly cosmetic. Why can't you access your account or change settings through the settop box? See and listen to your voice mail? Is there a technical reason you couldn't access the more of the same information that the box is relaying to you?

I would really like to see the account options that were added to Passport enabling you to add/remove channels and services through the IPG. One more for the wish list of things that will never happen.

I would really like to see the account options that were added to Passport enabling you to add/remove channels and services through the IPG.

That's cool for Passport subs. I take it this means that if you want to add or drop channels that are allowed as add/drop, you can do it through the IPG. Who still uses Passport? I know that Northern Wisconsin in some areas still have it and I heard Cox does. Can anyone confirm this?

Jack

I have a 8300HDC,
If you pause it for awhile, it totally stops working and has to be hard rebooted, It also reboots on watching TV, running navigator. My HD8300 has none of the reliability issues. Should I attempt to trade out the HDC, is there any other option, does the 8300 support HDMI now?

Thanks for your consideration

DO NOT trade out your 8300 (non-C boxes) unless it is really bad and you have no choice! If you get ANY new box, it will automatically be an 8300 HDC and if you have TWC Navigator in your area, it will have Navigator.

The only thing that the 8300 HDC boxes seem to do better than the 8300 HD boxes is provide more reliability with Closed Captioning. But there are far more issues on many of the 8300 HDC boxes. While Closed-Captioning seems to work better on the 8300 HDC models. the HDC models suffer from such issues as slower-browsing, longer boot up times, and HDMI issues. However, the newer versions of Navigator seem to have fixed the HDMI issues. But if you have an older version of Navigator, it may still have the HDMI bug.

The newer Navigator boxes are made by Samsung and very early reports seem to indicate that they work better. One poster had a relative with a non-DVR box where the channel banner did not go away unless Exit or Info was pressed when changing channels. But this seemed to be an isolated case. So far, the Samsung boxes in the public sector have been non-DVR models. They are available in small areas of New York City, Milwaukee Wisconsin, and I think Las Angeles California. The DVR Samsungs are still in test market AFAIK. Expect deployment to begin later this year to customers.

The later model 8300 HDC boxes are better than the earlier units in some cases, but do not seem to be as reliable as the 8300's. Keep your 8300 non-C as long as you can! On the 8300 HDC, do not just trade it in yourself. There may be signal or line problems causing your issues. Have a tech come out and check the signal and wiring. The HDC models also seem to be more sensitive to poor signals coming in and going out than the 8300.'s Call TWC for a signal and line check on the 8300 HDC and specifically say you are requesting signal and line tests for the HDC box. If you don't get your signal/wiring checked on the HDC connected box, a new box may not solve your problems.

My other suggestion would be to try conventional cable instead of HDMI on the 8300 HDC to see if that makes a difference in improving performance if you currently have the 8300 HDC hooked up to HDMI cable.

Don't screw around with the 8300 Non-C box! The longer it works, the greater a blessing it is. Even if the CC doesn't work or works sporadically on the 8300, a very remote issue compared to losing that 8300 box for an 8300 C model.

Jack

The only advantage TWC have over Vonage is that Navigator displays the caller ID. Well, if it's switched on in your area that is.

Since every phone I have has an ID display and I'm never more than 3 feet away from a cordless phone when I'm sat in front of the TV having it display on the TV is just saving me reaching over for the phone. I'm lazy but not enough to pay $15 to save me outstretching my arm. :)


TWC Digital Phone has one huge advantage over Vonage you didn't mention. The phone network is dedicated on a separate frequency band (sort of like TWC's own private intranet) and the calls don't touch the public Internet like Vonage. This is a more secure method, but more important to me is that it has no impact on my Internet speed either.

The Caller ID on TV issue would be a moot point because DirecTV has it by simply plugging in my phone line and turning it on. Even if it didn't, I also have a phone with ID sitting right next to my Harmony One cradle. Also, I don't really make any International calls so that doesn't matter to me.

That said, I still may make the move because I can save $15 a month by doing so which offsets the added expense of the DirecTV service. Do I think TWC should have a price more in line with Vonage? Yes, I do think $29.99 instead of $39.99 would keep more people on the service. I would bother changing for a $5 a month difference, but $15 a month I would. Anyway, I will look into it for sure, but to this day I have had zero issues with my phone service from TWC.

DO NOT trade out your 8300 (non-C boxes) unless it is really bad and you have no choice! If you get ANY new box, it will automatically be an 8300 HDC and if you have TWC Navigator in your area, it will have Navigator.

Yep. All new DVR boxes appear to be "C" boxes as I saw local TWC handing out boxes still in the SA crate.

I once had an 8300HDC and was lucky enough to trade it for an 8300HD. Of course this was December 2007, and even then I was DAMN lucky. I wouldn't count on that happening now.

One poster had a relative with a non-DVR box where the channel banner did not go away unless Exit or Info was pressed when changing channels. But this seemed to be an isolated case.

I had that happen, on DVR programming. I once watched an entire show and the banner stayed on for the whole hour. :confused::D

Also, I have a new problem to report that happened with both the 8300HDC box I had a year and a half ago and the 4250HDC I have now. Sometimes it gets "stuck" and won't turn off. Even though the power light went off, the picture was still on. Reboot time.

So far, the Samsung boxes in the public sector have been non-DVR models. They are available in small areas of New York City, Milwaukee Wisconsin, and I think Las Angeles California. The DVR Samsungs are still in test market AFAIK. Expect deployment to begin later this year to customers.

Samsung? :confused::confused::confused: Oh gawd, thanks for the head up. Another reason to make sure I never let go of my 8300HD. I don't want a Samsung POS. I was once afraid TWC was going to get Motorola boxes. Luckily that didn't happen here. Despite their flaws, Scientific Atlanta is still my favorite brand. Much better than the POS Pioneer boxes we used to have.

I have a question for anyone with the newer versions of Navigator: do the ligths on the front panel stay on even when the box is shut off? On both of mine, only the power symbol light shuts off when I turn the box off. When my 8300HD had Passport, all the lights went off when the box was off. On my Navigator boxes, the "1080i" and "HDTV" lights are always on, even when the box is off.

I hate that little bug!!! :mad::mad::mad:

I always turn my DVR off(part giving the hadr drive a break + part the sound still plays through my surround system Digital Audio unless the box is off). I liked all the lights going off, that way I knew it was off.

Yep. All new DVR boxes appear to be "C" boxes as I saw local TWC handing out boxes still in the SA crate.

I once had an 8300HDC and was lucky enough to trade it for an 8300HD. Of course this was December 2007, and even then I was DAMN lucky. I wouldn't count on that happening now.



I had that happen, on DVR programming. I once watched an entire show and the banner stayed on for the whole hour. :confused::D

Also, I have a new problem to report that happened with both the 8300HDC box I had a year and a half ago and the 4250HDC I have now. Sometimes it gets "stuck" and won't turn off. Even though the power light went off, the picture was still on. Reboot time.



Samsung? :confused::confused::confused: Oh gawd, thanks for the head up. Another reason to make sure I never let go of my 8300HD. I don't want a Samsung POS. I was once afraid TWC was going to get Motorola boxes. Luckily that didn't happen here. Despite their flaws, Scientific Atlanta is still my favorite brand. Much better than the POS Pioneer boxes we used to have.

I have a question for anyone with the newer versions of Navigator: do the ligths on the front panel stay on even when the box is shut off? On both of mine, only the power symbol light shuts off when I turn the box off. When my 8300HD had Passport, all the lights went off when the box was off. On my Navigator boxes, the "1080i" and "HDTV" lights are always on, even when the box is off.

I hate that little bug!!! :mad::mad::mad:

I always turn my DVR off(part giving the hadr drive a break + part the sound still plays through my surround system Digital Audio unless the box is off). I liked all the lights going off, that way I knew it was off.

You'll love the SMT-H3090. It will have 3x the RAM and 2.5x the CPU speed when compared to the 8300HDC. It will be made for ODN. It's got Widescreen IPG capabilities.

We'll see. The reason I said it was "another demonstration" is because the last time the president preempted things (1/15/09), I ended up with two unnecessary recordings in that time slot.

Hmmm. I had a few things scheduled and nothing got recorded when the channel guide data changed.... good old Passport!

Hmmm. I had a few things scheduled and noting got recorded when the channel guide data changed.... good old Passport!
Dito here with my SARA units also. Ugly but reliable.

Navigator recorded the President thinking it was House.

Passport did not.

I went through this every Monday with Heros, 24, and The Closer. When I cancel the Closer, it never has a problem finding and scheduling another airing. I finally found that if I lower the priority of The Closer, it will even do it automatically without intervention.

This is where Passport isn't so good... I have to manually find the second airing and schedule it. Fortunately, cable shows always seem to get multiple airings...

Just to chime in - SARA recorded the Presidential Press Conference thinking it was The O'reilly Factor.

Just to chime in - SARA recorded the Presidential Press Conference thinking it was The O'reilly Factor.

Strange my two SARA units worked perfect not recording anything but the manual recording I set up for the President. It rescheduled both missed shows as placeholders for next week. I am on SARA 1.90.14 so maybe their has been a fix.

Speaking of the devil, my MDN box got an "upgrade" last night. The only difference is the color scheme. On the IPG, rather than the several shades of blue, the time/channel cells are a gray-black gradient, selected items are gold and the background of the cells where shows are listed are dark blue. The channel banner looks the same, except the background that used to be light blue looks like navy blue.

Why they did this is beyond me. I've seen no other features added, it appears the only change is color scheme.

TWC must really be stuck on stupid to be doing this. The OCAP box is the same. Why are they upgrading an already stable version of MDN to another version of MDN, with different colors? They should be upgrading ODN so the damn thing works. If ODN coul be 1/2 as stable and decent as the version of MDN they replaced last night, it would be a huge victory.

Also, I think this might be "MDN 2.4.1". Sorry, but the diagnostics screen is nowhere near as friendly as the Passport one was.

Speaking of the devil, my MDN box got an "upgrade" last night. The only difference is the color scheme. On the IPG, rather than the several shades of blue, the time/channel cells are a gray-black gradient, selected items are gold and the background of the cells where shows are listed are dark blue. The channel banner looks the same, except the background that used to be light blue looks like navy blue.

Why they did this is beyond me. I've seen no other features added, it appears the only change is color scheme. This is incredibly old news. We discussed this months ago. We got that MDN update here in San Diego in mid-November (it was MDN 2.4.4-14--see this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15069104#post15069104)). Someone posted pictures of the upgraded interface, here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15115064#post15115064) (ODN 3.1.0_7), also in November. Do you read this thread or do you just come here when you have something to complain about :D?

There's no way that they didn't fix a bunch of bugs in that release, whether those fixes are visible to you or not. They may not have added any new features other than the color scheme modification (they did add a couple to ODN, which MDN already had), but they got many complaints about the old, eye-searing, blue-on-blue-on-blue color scheme and it was an easy fix--much more work for Human Factors Engineering to choose the colors than for the software folks to make the changes.

This is incredibly old news. We discussed this months ago. We got that MDN update here in San Diego in mid-November (it was MDN 2.4.4-14--see this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15069104#post15069104)). Someone posted pictures of the upgraded interface, here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15115064#post15115064) (ODN 3.1.0_7), also in November. Do you read this thread or do you just come here when you have something to complain about :D?

I used to read and comment more in late 2007 when I had an OCAP DVR. Once I was able to replace that with an older Passport box, I had nothing to say about Navigator. Then in May we got MDN, so I started checking back from time to time. MDN worked surprisingly well, not much to complain about. Recently I got another OCAP box, and thus joined the gripe-fest to find out if it's a local issue.

You see, NE Ohio is extremely Bass Ackwards. If anything changes elsewhere, we'll probably see it six months later. Just like SDV, that's not even running everywhere yet. :(

Like user ttweed mentioned in the thread above, Time Warner San Diego got a new version of Navigator last night for ODN boxes. Here is what I found on my SA8300HDC with the new version in Time Warner Desert Cities.

The version is listed as 3.1.0_7 dated 10/27/2008.

I poked around and found some new features, plus took some screenshots for you. Here goes.


http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/7079/diagverwe6.jpg

This is a shot of the diagnostic page showing the version number.


http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/9743/guidesamplewr0.jpg

Here is a shot of the new colors in the guide.


http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/2181/nearesttunejs9.jpg

Here is a shot of what I believe is a new feature called "Nearest Tune." If enabled, this feature selects the next highest channel if a nonexistent channel is entered from the remote. I don't recall seeing this feature before.


http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/3247/seriespriorityud9.jpg

Saving the best for last, ODN now has the ability to prioritize series recordings!

I don't see any other changes. The speed seems better to me also.

That's the kind of menus I now have on MDN.

And that's an ODN box? I see an "ODN version" in the photo.

I hope that's coming soon to our OCAP boxes in NE Ohio soon. The speed is terrible, the guide is funky and the current version is buggy.

And, that blue is even more abrasive on my eyes after seeing the new colors. :D

Indianapolis is also very bass ackwards too. When I called 3 weeks ago, I was told an update would be coming in a couple weeks. Our ODN 8300HDC is very buggy, and I have to reboot it often. We are still running 2.4.9-3 on ODN, and I don't know anyone that has MDN in our area. I'm not sure, but I think they (Brighthouse) may be concentrating on MDN more since there are more people with legacy boxes around here. Today I've been reading reports of updates, both ODN and MDN in the Ohio area. Hopefully we will be getting those updates here very soon. I like Brighthouse, but we don't have SDV at all, and ODN is still very old here. I have the HDMI bug that people reported months ago. Trying to call Brighthouse is pointless, because they always experience a "larger than normal" volume of calls, and even if you do get through, each person gives you a different answer. With any luck, we will soon be getting ODN with the updated color scheme.

Yea,

We have had the new colored Navigator I think since December. The color scheme is much better and the Movie on Demand Screens look pretty cool! (more modern.) On Demand seems to work better and the speed is faster. I had a bit more rebooting a few weeks ago, but that seems to have subsided. (I have an MDN box.) I don't think I have that "Nearest Tune" feature. Now give me Keyword Search and I will be content with Navigator.

Jack

I understand that. Was compareing it to how Navigator worked. Read up and you might understand the discussion.

almost missed this post... with me having an actual life involving much bigger things than a cable box sometimes i do miss a few posts.;)

Also, I think this might be "MDN 2.4.1". Sorry, but the diagnostics screen is nowhere near as friendly as the Passport one was.

on MDN boxes you can hold the 'LAST' button and it will show the version numbers on the bottom LH side of the screen. do the same to remove the version info.

the upgrade to 2.4.4.14 that introduced that color scheme on mine also fixed my reboot when using closed captioning problem.

TW MidOhio has posted a webpage about the updates to Navigator. I've got an MDN box that was updated earlier this week. I'm assuming that the ODN boxes are also getting updated this month.

Not sure about other cities, but they've added a Navigator feedback form! (We used to have one, then it was gone for a while.)

http://www.timewarnercable.com/MidOhio/learn/cable/navigator/default.html

"Navigator’s new look is easier to read and even more user friendly. These and other updates are based on feedback from our customers across the country. The latest updates to Navigator will be introduced during February, based on the type of set-top equipment you have. So, you may see the change on one TV before another, but all Digital Cable customers will see the change in the coming weeks.

Additional changes to Navigator, including longer show descriptions, remote DVR management and other enhancements, are scheduled for later this year.

Be sure to visit timewarnercable.com for more updates."

Like user ttweed mentioned in the thread above, Time Warner San Diego got a new version of Navigator last night for ODN boxes. Here is what I found on my SA8300HDC with the new version in Time Warner Desert Cities.

The version is listed as 3.1.0_7 dated 10/27/2008.

I poked around and found some new features, plus took some screenshots for you. Here goes.


http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/7079/diagverwe6.jpg

This is a shot of the diagnostic page showing the version number.


Bizarrely I was just randomly pressing buttons to see if any new HD channels were hiding out and I came across the old Passport diagnostic channel - 999. After being taken down during the Nav switch it's now back up again for MDN and looks similar to the above, except more basic.

So if you used to have a diagnostic channel for Passport you might find it active again in your area. It's an easier way to check the version info.

Could it be that the fault could be on the 8300HDC or 8240HDC for the crashiness of ODN? I once had a rather crashy ODN experience, but when I went downstairs to get some 2x4s to lift the box up, it quit crashing for the most part and is able to stay uncrashed for at least weeks between reboots. This suggests a cooling problem. Have others tried giving their 8300HDCs more air for convection to carry these boxes' heat away? Another possible cause of the crashiness is that when the outlet is on in the back of the cable box, the relay holding it on (or closed, for technically-minded people) generates heat. Maybe you could set it to turn on only when the set-top box is on, or turn it off entirely if that option has been presented in a later version of ODN. It currently defaults to always staying on.

As for what needs to be done with ODN, here is what I think needs to be done:
Top priority:

Replace the 8300HDC and the 8240HDC with analog/digital hybrids that are engineered from the ground up for modern versions of OCAP and are capable of decoding H.264, like the new Samsung DVRs and the Cisco 8550HDC, 8552HDC, 8650HDC, or the 8652HDC. These boxes hopefully are able to either vent heat more efficiently or be able to put up with more heat without crashing. Digital-only boxes like the 8240HDC, 8540HDC, 8640HDC, or any of the current-generation Motorola are OK only for digital-only systems. However, they are not compliant to any version of OCAP, because every version of OCAP that has been released as of this writing requires analog tuning. A further nice bonus to consider in choosing OCAP set-top boxes would be the presence of hardware accelerated Java to native machine code interpretation, like ARM's Jazelle technology, which will boost Java speeds to near-native execution speeds.
Once all boxes are analog/digital hybrids designed from the ground up for OCAP, move all channels that have an analog simulcast to SDV. Therefore, we gain many more SDV channels by replacing the digital simulcast channels with more channels for the SDV pool, making it more reliable. If SDV maxes out or reaches a high-water mark, the SDV server should tell the boxes to pick up the analog channel as a fallback.
Do not release any version of ODN that fails to support eSATA properly.

Medium priority:

On the program guide, use the full width of a widescreen display to display two hours of program guide.
Make ODN match or beat MDN feature-wise except for the totally useless fade effects.
Add manual recording.
Add keyword search.
Use the extra RAM to store long program descriptions.
Fix the video on demand bug that causes it to fail to perform service group discovery if one or both of the tuners are busy. (Service group discovery allows the cable box to load the video on demand parameters so that it can perform video on demand.)
Add the ability to keep the outlet on the back of the box "always off" to save energy and heat when nothing is connected to it.

Low priority:

Replace all MDN boxes with H.264-capable ODN boxes.
Once all boxes on a given cable plant are capable of H.264 decompression (e.g. all MPEG-2 only boxes have been retired), transmit as much as possible in H.264 as possible. Transmit the stuff that cannot be in H.264 like the Fox feed which comes precompressed to the TV station as broadcast-bitrate MPEG-2, as MPEG-2. For stuff that can be compressed to H.264 from a high-bitrate source, allow the TV stations to choose MPEG-2, in which they transmit to cable what they transmit to the air; or H.264, allowing multiple HD feeds like a duplicate HD feed that is guaranteed to not be interrupted by local situations except when the national feed is empty, or to transmit all of the basketball games in HD during March Madness.
Fill the sidebars with applets when an SD program is shown on a widescreen TV. I would prefer a stock ticker, weather ticker, or news ticker. My father would rather see advertisements in order to hopefully lower the cable bill.
Allow users to create and upload skins.
Support independent outputs, where OUT 1 and OUT 2 can display different recordings or channels.
Replace most JPEG-based GUI graphics with PNG or GIF-based graphics, which would have less artifacts than the graphics we currently use which shows JPEG artifacts. JPEGs that display only one gradient or one photo can stay.

I once used MDN until the version I used kept crashing with closed captioning, which was a deal-breaker due to having a non-native English speaker in the house that absolutely needed closed captioning forced me to gamble with getting an ODN box. As for what I could tell on my limited experience with MDN, here is what I would want seen done with it:
High priority:

Fork MDN into a non-DVR version and a DVR version, like how Passport was forked to create Passport Echo to partially optimize it for DVRs, if it has not been forked yet. This will allow memory size cuts for the non-DVR code because there is no DVR code, making it easier to get the code fit with no problems in the limited memory of the Explorer 2000 series it must target. For the DVR version, use the extra RAM to store the whole program guide in memory so that it does not pause when I have to advance beyond tomorrow, which made the version of MDN slower than ODN when accessing the program guide beyond tomorrow. This should also make it easier to get rid of memory overflow problems if they still exist in the current MDN code base.
If memory buffer overflows still exist in the code base, fix them.

Medium priority:

Add manual recording to the DVR version.
Add keyword search.
The DVR version should use the extra RAM to store long program descriptions. The non-DVR version should store the short program descriptions we are used to in order to minimize RAM usage to fit on old cable boxes with what was adequate back in the early 90's with SARA, but are totally pathetic today.
Allow the customer to turn off the time-wasting fade effects. The MDN box I used felt faster than the ODN box I used except when the fade effects to and from black was going on, where the ODN box would feel faster because it wasted no time on fade effects.

Low priority:

Allow users to create and upload skins if there is enough memory for this task.
Support independent outputs, where OUT 1 and OUT 2 can display different recordings or channels on DVRs. Non-DVR boxes often do not have independent outputs, so leave this out of the non-DVR version.


While typing up my wishlist, I noticed someone mentioned remote DVR management. This would be a lovely feature and would go on the top of the medium priority lists above, but since I did not come up with it myself, I will not steal credit by adding it to the list.

almost missed this post... with me having an actual life involving much bigger things than a cable box sometimes i do miss a few posts.;)

WHAT??????? There is life outside of Navigator??????? :eek::D:p

Could it be that the fault could be on the 8300HDC or 8240HDC for the crashiness of ODN? Mine doesn't crash -- ever.

Indianapolis is also very bass ackwards too. When I called 3 weeks ago, I was told an update would be coming in a couple weeks. Our ODN 8300HDC is very buggy, and I have to reboot it often. We are still running 2.4.9-3 on ODN, and I don't know anyone that has MDN in our area. I'm not sure, but I think they (Brighthouse) may be concentrating on MDN more since there are more people with legacy boxes around here. Today I've been reading reports of updates, both ODN and MDN in the Ohio area. Hopefully we will be getting those updates here very soon. I like Brighthouse, but we don't have SDV at all, and ODN is still very old here. I have the HDMI bug that people reported months ago. Trying to call Brighthouse is pointless, because they always experience a "larger than normal" volume of calls, and even if you do get through, each person gives you a different answer. With any luck, we will soon be getting ODN with the updated color scheme.

I have ODN 2.4.10_11. It looks and behaves like the previous version, although it is a bit more stable, which I attributed to it not being an 8300HDC, since those seem to have problems in general.

Also, we have SDV and it seems to work OK on the ODN box. I was expecting more problems with SDV in general, but it's all wokred out.

I'd assume the same thing is coming for ODN, since it listed at TWC NEO's website. The usualy "different model boxes at different times" shtick.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/northeastohio/learn/cable/navigator/default.html

TW MidOhio has posted a webpage about the updates to Navigator. I've got an MDN box that was updated earlier this week. I'm assuming that the ODN boxes are also getting updated this month.

Not sure about other cities, but they've added a Navigator feedback form! (We used to have one, then it was gone for a while.)

http://www.timewarnercable.com/MidOhio/learn/cable/navigator/default.html

"Navigator’s new look is easier to read and even more user friendly. These and other updates are based on feedback from our customers across the country. The latest updates to Navigator will be introduced during February, based on the type of set-top equipment you have. So, you may see the change on one TV before another, but all Digital Cable customers will see the change in the coming weeks.

Additional changes to Navigator, including longer show descriptions, remote DVR management and other enhancements, are scheduled for later this year.

Be sure to visit timewarnercable.com for more updates."

http://www.timewarnercable.com/northeastohio/learn/cable/navigator/default.html

They listed a page for us too. It's amazing to see TWC actually act like a real, legitimate company. They have this, along with a Start Over "coming soon" page and HDTV coming soon. We have 5 HD channels coming in March.

Additional changes to Navigator, including longer show descriptions, remote DVR management and other enhancements, are scheduled for later this year.
They're also still claiming 2-week channel guide.

wow ...I am jealous of those screenshots! ;)

http://www.timewarnercable.com/northeastohio/learn/cable/navigator/default.html

They listed a page for us too. It's amazing to see TWC actually act like a real, legitimate company. They have this, along with a Start Over "coming soon" page and HDTV coming soon.

Like I've said before. If there's no date, ignore it. You're just setting yourself up for disappointment otherwise.

twcnc.com has had Start Over "coming soon" since Jan 2007.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/northeastohio/learn/cable/navigator/default.html

They listed a page for us too. It's amazing to see TWC actually act like a real, legitimate company. They have this, along with a Start Over "coming soon" page and HDTV coming soon. We have 5 HD channels coming in March.

Whoa! I didn't realize that TWC MidOhio and NorthEastOhio were so far apart in the number of HD channels:
http://www.timewarnercable.com/MidOhio/learn/cable/hdtv.html
http://www.timewarnercable.com/NortheastOhio/learn/cable/hdtv.html

At least your not as bad off as folks in the TWC WesternKentucky region (a former Adelphia area which serves my grandmother in Southern Indiana):
http://www.timewarnercable.com/westernky/learn/cable/hdtv.html

StartOver went 'live' here in Columbus a few weeks ago on around 25 channels. It's actually a really nice feature for customers without a DVR. For those with a DVR, not so much. Basically an 'emergency use only' feature.
http://www.timewarnercable.com/midohio/about/inTheNewsDetails.ashx?PRID=2459&MarketID=124

yea or be in the central ny time warner area were always last to get everything .lol!:rolleyes:

Whoa! I didn't realize that TWC MidOhio and NorthEastOhio were so far apart in the number of HD channels:
http://www.timewarnercable.com/MidOhio/learn/cable/hdtv.html
http://www.timewarnercable.com/NortheastOhio/learn/cable/hdtv.html

It's because of Adelphia. We used to be a very advanced system(at the beginning of Road Runner, VOD) and we still would be without the other areas picked up in 2006.

You see, when we picked up Adelphia and some Comacast, it was like getting dumped in Lake Erie with concrete shoes. :D:D

Before Adelphia there were several smaller, different independent cable systems that folded into Adelphia. And even though Adelphia had digital cable and video on demand, they didn't have SDV, so that is being worked on. Plus, they're still on SARA, although that will work with SDV, eventually they will have to be Navigatored for Start Over to work plus continuity issues. Only Navigator is pictured on the site. And believe me this company is all about 'continuity'. It's a fatal flaw. Last year they introduced a new standardized lineup across the area. And this year the DOUCHEBAG head executive at TW NEO said that SDV and new channels will be added to the entire system, since "they don't want to treat different areas differently". So areas with SDV already active have to wait while the bums at former Adelphia work on perfecting fire and the wheel! :p:mad::mad::mad:

At least your not as bad off as folks in the TWC WesternKentucky region (a former Adelphia area which serves my grandmother in Southern Indiana):
http://www.timewarnercable.com/westernky/learn/cable/hdtv.html



I consider us to be that bad. The channels we currently have are crap. The only ones worth watching are ESPN/2, STO HD, and the HDTV tier. We're finally getting some decent programming on March 15 when USA HD, SCIFI HD, Discovery HD, Palladia HD and Disney HD is added.

Although I'm not happy about Disney and Palladia(I'd rather have CNN and F/X) but at least something is being added and we'll finally be over 20 channels.

almost missed this post... with me having an actual life involving much bigger things than a cable box sometimes i do miss a few posts.;)

I used to live in Statesville. Nice life.

It's because of Adelphia. We used to be a very advanced system(at the beginning of Road Runner, VOD) and we still would be without the other areas picked up in 2006...

...Although I'm not happy about Disney and Palladia(I'd rather have CNN and F/X) but at least something is being added and we'll finally be over 20 channels.

I can concur about the former Adelphia systems. My father and brother both live in a former Adelphia area - but instead of getting absorbed by TW the local municipalities took over the system. What a disgrace... 9 vs 32 "basic" HDs. And they charge almost exactly the same as TW does. Not much prospect of it changing. The system wasn't up to date in 2006 and they don't have the revenue base or expertise to bring it up to date. TW, especially here in neighboring Charlotte, looks so much better.

Everybody has their own list of HD priorities that they'd like to have, but CNN is one of the biggest disappointments as only a very small portion of their programming is actually in HD. Other channels that are extremely worthless uses of HD bandwidth are CNBC, Golf, Disney & Fam... very little HD programming on any of them.

I can concur about the former Adelphia systems. My father and brother both live in a former Adelphia area - but instead of getting absorbed by TW the local municipalities took over the system. What a disgrace... 9 vs 32 "basic" HDs. And they charge almost exactly the same as TW does. Not much prospect of it changing. The system wasn't up to date in 2006 and they don't have the revenue base or expertise to bring it up to date. TW, especially here in neighboring Charlotte, looks so much better.

Everybody has their own list of HD priorities that they'd like to have, but CNN is one of the biggest disappointments as only a very small portion of their programming is actually in HD. Other channels that are extremely worthless uses of HD bandwidth are CNBC, Golf, Disney & Fam... very little HD programming on any of them.

I have to agree with you on one channel, and disagree with you on another. CNN HD is a disappointment. They only do real HD on special events, certain documentaries like the one on Bernard Madoff's Ponzi scheme they produced a few weeks ago, and on Anderson Cooper 360, as far as I know.

For CNBC HD+, I would have to disagree somewhat. They actually use the normally unused space for useful information like charts on hotly-traded stocks, stock indices, and rates on Treasuries. (Occasionally, they will throw in a small banner advertisement when there is not enough information in the category of information being displayed to fill in the sidebar.) This use of the sidebar is much more useful than the sidebars or stretch-o-vision other channels use when dealing with SD content on HD channels. I just wish that other channels would display useful stuff in their sidebars whenever they deal with an SD program on an HD channel. ESPN should be displaying scoreboards and sports news headlines. CNN should show weather, stocks, and brief headlines. Other channels should display program guides instead of stretch-o-vision.

I have seen some HD content on Disney HD and Golf HD, but I do not watch them enough to judge them.

I can concur about the former Adelphia systems. My father and brother both live in a former Adelphia area - but instead of getting absorbed by TW the local municipalities took over the system. What a disgrace... 9 vs 32 "basic" HDs. And they charge almost exactly the same as TW does. Not much prospect of it changing. The system wasn't up to date in 2006 and they don't have the revenue base or expertise to bring it up to date. TW, especially here in neighboring Charlotte, looks so much better.

Just when you think TWC is the worst of the worst, there's always that "local municipal" system crap. As much as I despise satellite, if they did that to the cable here, I'd be gone yesterday.

Everybody has their own list of HD priorities that they'd like to have, but CNN is one of the biggest disappointments as only a very small portion of their programming is actually in HD. Other channels that are extremely worthless uses of HD bandwidth are CNBC, Golf, Disney & Fam... very little HD programming on any of them.

I still want CNN, now that they're expanding their HD programming. But I guess TWC doesn't want any heat from the people who want Faux Noise HD, and think TWC prefers CNN over FN. ;) But Dinsey is one that should not be added. Why not F/X instead? They have original programming and movies in HD. Plus it is an in demand channel. Along with USA, it is one of the most wanted in our area.

Disney just seems absurd. What does Disney even show in HD? And Palladia? WTF is that? But I can't complain, at least SOMETHING is coming and we will finally be over 20 channels. Plus USA, SCIFI and Discovery are nice. I don't watch SCIFI that much, but I like it being added, It wil become another HD destination now. Better than the garbage we have now(TNT, TBS, HGTV, A&E). And the disappointments like Food and History, who stretch programming. :(

But like you said, it could be MUCH worse. If they added Golf, CNBC, Fox Business.

It's even bad enough now that they added Big Ten HD. That was useful for one Ohio State game. After that, it's pointless. In our situation, it deserves to be on the time share channel that FSN Ohio is also on.

I have to agree with you on one channel, and disagree with you on another. CNN HD is a disappointment. They only do real HD on special events, certain documentaries like the one on Bernard Madoff's Ponzi scheme they produced a few weeks ago, and on Anderson Cooper 360, as far as I know.

So I take it CNN Newsroom with Rick Sanchez, Don Lemmon is not in HD? Which I think that comes out of Atlanta and the HD shows are from NY or DC. But it would still be nice to have, as they upgrade. And they will to keep up and offer more HD coverage, especially as FOX gains ground in HD broadcasting.

For CNBC HD+, I would have to disagree somewhat. They actually use the normally unused space for useful information like charts on hotly-traded stocks, stock indices, and rates on Treasuries. (Occasionally, they will throw in a small banner advertisement when there is not enough information in the category of information being displayed to fill in the sidebar.) This use of the sidebar is much more useful than the sidebars or stretch-o-vision other channels use when dealing with SD content on HD channels. I just wish that other channels would display useful stuff in their sidebars whenever they deal with an SD program on an HD channel. ESPN should be displaying scoreboards and sports news headlines. CNN should show weather, stocks, and brief headlines. Other channels should display program guides instead of stretch-o-vision.

I have seen some HD content on Disney HD and Golf HD, but I do not watch them enough to judge them.

Oh no! :eek: Something as bad as stretching a picture is wanting to "use" the unused areas of the screens. Sure, I could see it work on a news or sports channel, but beyond that I'm appalled. On general entertainment I want black bars on the left and right of 4:3 content. No unnecessary static text, no overloaded bugs, no patterned sidebars. Luckily the NBC channels (USA SCIFI) respect OAR so I'll be able to watch their HD versions 100% of the time. Same with F/X. Unlike TNT and TBS, where if I watch them, it's the analog version.

Is there any way to delete channels with Navigator, other than to set up Favorites, which is pretty annoying?

http://www.timewarnercable.com/northeastohio/learn/cable/navigator/default.html

They listed a page for us too. It's amazing to see TWC actually act like a real, legitimate company. They have this, along with a Start Over "coming soon" page and HDTV coming soon. We have 5 HD channels coming in March.

Everyone with a TWC website feedback form for Navigator should request 3 things: Here are my top 3:

1.) An upgrade that makes closed-captioning work or more consistently work on the boxes regardless of model or division. Special attention should be given to the CC problems of the SA 8300's.

2.) An upgrade that allows for Keyboard Keyword Search recording. (i.e Key Al Pachino, get all movies in the system that he stars in over the next several days-two weeks.)

3.) The ability to create manual recordings with user controlled start/stop times.

Jack

PS. You can copy my 3 requests if you want.

Is there any way to delete channels with Navigator, other than to set up Favorites, which is pretty annoying?

No, and this is a major issue for me. This is a standard feature with EVERY OTHER provider and they should have added it to Navigator. At the very least, have an "All Sub" option and a "Show HD" option. I'd be happy with a Show HD option show my wife stops recording SD stuff when we have an HD channel. I have voiced my opinion on this before ...

Everyone with a TWC website feedback form for Navigator should request 3 things: Here are my top 3:

1.) An upgrade that makes closed-captioning work or more consistently work on the boxes regardless of model or division. Special attention should be given to the CC problems of the SA 8300's.

2.) An upgrade that allows for Keyboard Keyword Search recording. (i.e Key Al Pachino, get all movies in the system that he stars in over the next several days-two weeks.)

3.) The ability to create manual recordings with user controlled start/stop times.

Jack

PS. You can copy my 3 requests if you want.

Jack, I agree with your suggestions, but as I stated above this quote the should really add some type of customization to the guide. That would be my number two, second only to Keyword search and manual recording is third for me.

EDIT: LOL, check this oout. Just posted on our division website about how Time Warner cares about us.
Read Our Division President's Letter "Our Commitment To You (http://www.timewarnercable.com/CentralNY/about/community/presidentletter.html)". :rolleyes:

Now, most of this was the standard BS fare Jeff Unaitis gave me about how over the past year they added 30 HD channels etc.

The only thing that peaked my interest was the Broadcast On Demand feature.

Other than that the letter didn't address Navigator at all. No mention of it even though it is still all over the website. Sure TWC cares and the customer service and communication proves it. They are so out of touch that they update the website and post this letter without having said website reflect the service we actually get.

Don't get me wrong, the coming HD and the shear fact the had a type of press release letter like this is a step in the right direction, but they need to do a lot more.

Although I'm not happy about Disney and Palladia(I'd rather have CNN and F/X) but at least something is being added and we'll finally be over 20 channels.

Actually, Palladia isn't half bad at all. Yes, they repeat a LOT, but there are only so many folks making good music! I especially like Crossroads, where they pair two very disparate acts into one show (like Taylor Swift and Def Leopard, which really does work!).

On general entertainment I want black bars on the left and right of 4:3 content. No unnecessary static text, no overloaded bugs, no patterned sidebars.

One very nice use of those side pillars is they take the edges of the 4:3 image and "repeat" them but blurred out. Sounds terrible, but when you watch it, it actually seems OK. They kind of melt into the background as they do NOPT need to stretch anything out (boy do I wish there was a law that fined stretch-o-vision broadcasters millions of dollars for subjecting us to it!).

EDIT: LOL, check this out. Just posted on our division website about how Time Warner cares about us.
Read Our Division President's Letter "Our Commitment To You (http://www.timewarnercable.com/CentralNY/about/community/presidentletter.html)". :rolleyes:



I feel jealous

Mr. Steve Fry President of TWC North East Ohio's division has done one nice thing answer one of my emails but even on that email he told me to contact my local Regional Manager

Actually, Palladia isn't half bad at all. Yes, they repeat a LOT, but there are only so many folks making good music! I especially like Crossroads, where they pair two very disparate acts into one show (like Taylor Swift and Def Leopard, which really does work!).

I agree and have enjoyed it since it was added here last year when it was still called MHD. Many great concerts with very good sound. One thing I've noticed is that they must be running it with very high compression ratios (at least here in Charlotte)... static shots can look amazingly good but even slow pans across a stage block up severely.

I agree and have enjoyed it since it was added here last year when it was still called MHD. Many great concerts with very good sound. One thing I've noticed is that they must be running it with very high compression ratios (at least here in Charlotte)... static shots can look amazingly good but even slow pans across a stage block up severely.

Palladia is extremely blocky here in Milwaukee too.

One thing I've noticed is that they must be running it with very high compression ratios (at least here in Charlotte)... static shots can look amazingly good but even slow pans across a stage block up severely.

Palladia is extremely blocky here in Milwaukee too.

Hey, I don't really care. As long as I can just HAVE the channels, I'll take blocking happily. Not that good HD still beats analog SD, especially windowboxed like USA and SCIFI anyday.

I'll confirm that for Milwaukee. I thought maybe I had a weak signal that was causing the blocking. At least now I know it's probably not on my end.

I have to agree with you on one channel, and disagree with you on another. CNN HD is a disappointment. They only do real HD on special events, certain documentaries like the one on Bernard Madoff's Ponzi scheme they produced a few weeks ago, and on Anderson Cooper 360, as far as I know.

For CNBC HD+, I would have to disagree somewhat. They actually use the normally unused space for useful information like charts on hotly-traded stocks, stock indices, and rates on Treasuries. (Occasionally, they will throw in a small banner advertisement when there is not enough information in the category of information being displayed to fill in the sidebar.) This use of the sidebar is much more useful than the sidebars or stretch-o-vision other channels use when dealing with SD content on HD channels. I just wish that other channels would display useful stuff in their sidebars whenever they deal with an SD program on an HD channel. ESPN should be displaying scoreboards and sports news headlines. CNN should show weather, stocks, and brief headlines. Other channels should display program guides instead of stretch-o-vision.

I have seen some HD content on Disney HD and Golf HD, but I do not watch them enough to judge them.

Disney Channel live-action shows predating the launch of Disney HD (such as Hannah Montana) are shot in video (probably digibeta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digibeta#Digital_Betacam) since Disney has tended to select Sony cameras in the past) and then filmized in postproduction. This is actually how most cable channels shoot their in-house live action shows now as shooting in film is much more expensive.

Film is already a high resolution media (even film from as early as the 50s can have an approximate resolution much higher than any HD broadcast standard) so it's easier to convert a show shot in film to HD.

Video is a discrete medium with a fixed resolution. Converting a show shot in video to HD requires replacing pretty much every piece of equipment.

i been having problems with my 8240hdc i changed it out twice already and im still having problems with the pic just freezing up and having to change the channel back and forth to get the pic to start again , if it is recording the dvr list shows recording but in red says program was not avilable second box and 2 services calls later they tell me its just a glich in system but they dont know when it will be fixed , also on hd channel and nba leauge pass sometime message pops up say channel not avilable now try back later is anyone else having these problems?

i been having problems with my 8240hdc i changed it out twice already and im still having problems with the pic just freezing up and having to change the channel back and forth to get the pic to start again , if it is recording the dvr list shows recording but in red says program was not avilable second box and 2 services calls later they tell me its just a glich in system but they dont know when it will be fixed , also on hd channel and nba leauge pass sometime message pops up say channel not avilable now try back later is anyone else having these problems?

My first hunch is that you have a bad signal to your house. Have Time Warner Cable come over to your house to measure and fix your signal strength levels.

Anyone else notice another of TW's so-called "improvements" with the latest version of Navigator? They removed the feature that showed you the amount of time you were into the recorded shows, and replaced it with a very hard to guess bar graph. This is progress?

Anyone else notice another of TW's so-called "improvements" with the latest version of Navigator? They removed the feature that showed you the amount of time you were into the recorded shows, and replaced it with a very hard to guess bar graph. This is progress?Which version are you referring to? On mine, the elapsed time shows in the top left corner of the info banner, in the tab where the time would be displayed for a live show. The progress bar has always been there.

The version we just got with the new colors: 2.4.4-16. Instead of elapsed time, it just shows the actual time. Pretty useless.

The version we just got with the new colors: 2.4.4-16. Instead of elapsed time, it just shows the actual time. Pretty useless.

During playback, elapsed time (no am/pm indicator) is shown in the tab above the channel logo. During regular viewing this location shows time of day (with am/pm indicator).

The version we just got with the new colors: 2.4.4-16. Instead of elapsed time, it just shows the actual time. Pretty useless.

ODN or MDN?
^Duh:o^

AFAIK ODN has always shown the elapsed time in that top left tab.

Anyone else notice another of TW's so-called "improvements" with the latest version of Navigator? They removed the feature that showed you the amount of time you were into the recorded shows, and replaced it with a very hard to guess bar graph. This is progress?

It's been like that since day one of MDN during live playback.

ODN or MDN?
^Duh:o^

AFAIK ODN has always shown the elapsed time in that top left tab.

MDN shows the current time in the time tab. The current time is replaced with elapsed time on DVR and VOD playback.

It's been like that since day one of MDN during live playback.

I don't think anyone shows the time on "live playback" after rewinding a live show. SARA has a green bar and MDN has a gold bar.

Anybody else confused? The discussion started with the assertion that the progress bar was useless during playback, while others state that the elapsed time is indeed displayed.

Anybody else confused? The discussion started with the assertion that the progress bar was useless during playback, while others state that the elapsed time is indeed displayed.

MDN shows the current time in the time tab. The current time is replaced with elapsed time on DVR and VOD playback.



I don't think anyone shows the time on "live playback" after rewinding a live show. SARA has a green bar and MDN has a gold bar.


I don't think the progress bar is useless during playback. Honestly, I don't think the poster knows where to look. on ODN, when playing a recorded show, the elapsed time shows in the top left tab along with a yellow progress bar with an indicator to show you where you are. When you watch live TV, the current time of day is displayed in that tab.

Anybody else confused? The discussion started with the assertion that the progress bar was useless during playback, while others state that the elapsed time is indeed displayed.

The original assertion was that a recent upgrade removed the elapsed time from the banner during playback, leaving ONLY the progress bar, which the OP thought was useless by itself. I, and several others, responded that the OP should check the time tab because the elapsed time was still displayed in (moved to) that location.

I don't think the progress bar is useless during playback. Honestly, I don't think the poster knows where to look. on ODN, when playing a recorded show, the elapsed time shows in the top left tab along with a yellow progress bar with an indicator to show you where you are. When you watch live TV, the current time of day is displayed in that tab.That's what I stated, but it sounded like he was trying to say that the elapsed time was taken away by a recent MDN release. Even after challenged, he's claims his version does not show elapsed time.

The version we just got with the new colors: 2.4.4-16. Instead of elapsed time, it just shows the actual time. Pretty useless.If anyone else wants to agree or disagree, you need to indicate which Navigator version you're using.

The original assertion was that a recent upgrade removed the elapsed time from the banner during playback, leaving ONLY the progress bar, which the OP thought was useless by itself. I, and several others, responded that the OP should check the time tab because the elapsed time was still displayed in (moved to) that location.Yeah but it sounds like VisionOn agreed with him.

It's been like that since day one of MDN during live playback.

Anyone else notice another of TW's so-called "improvements" with the latest version of Navigator? They removed the feature that showed you the amount of time you were into the recorded shows, and replaced it with a very hard to guess bar graph. This is progress?

I think what you are referring to was a Passport feature. The progress bar in Passport provided an indicator bar that showed the point in the program you were down to the second, and it showed this info whether you were watching a pre-recorded program, or a 'live' buffered program.

TWC didn't actually 'remove' this feature, it's just one that has not been implemented into Navigator - or at least not yet. I'm not sure if Navigator's deficiencies in this area compared to Passport are simply programming issues or patented features that TWC cannot duplicate in Navigator.

Also unlike Passport, the clock on Navigator's Guide screen also does not indicate seconds. I still miss the precision that Passport's clock provided when I was setting a house clock or a watch.

This needs some clarification.

Under MDN during live playback there is no timecode displayed at all and never has been. The timecode being the time of the point in the show you are currently watching.

Under MDN during recorded show playback the timecode replaces the clock on the left hand side of the banner.

Under Passport the timecode was always visible above the marker in the progress bar for both live playback and recorded playback. This cannot be done with Navigator unless they redesign the banner because TWC have not left enough room for the timecode indicator to be shown near to the progress marker.

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/1687/passporttimecode1qt5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/passporttimecode1qt5.jpg/1/w435.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img178/passporttimecode1qt5.jpg/1/)

Passport also has a secondary banner that is only shown during video transport operation which means it doesn't take up as much screen space as having a full banner. The timecode is visible there too.

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/6189/passporttimecode2br1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/passporttimecode2br1.jpg/1/w424.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img156/passporttimecode2br1.jpg/1/)

Removing the timecode during live playback and moving it so far to the left and in a stupidly disconnected position during recorded playback was one of the first things I hated about Navigator. Just more bad design at work.

I was just watching a two hour show on NBC and I was chasing playback. Since the Nav progress bar represents the entire duration of the show's timeslot but no timecode during live play, it's impossible to accurately guess how far into the show you are. Only when the marker is halfway can you assume you are an hour in. Outside of that it's just blind guess work.

Having an attached timecode does not appear to be a top secret Passport technology. Both Tivo and DirecTV have the timecode attached to their progress indicator from what I remember seeing. Almost every online video streaming service I can remember also attaches the timecode to the progress bar. It's common sense interface design.

Removing it just appears to me to be one more poor design decision made by TWC.

Speaking of changes in the new MDN, they have totally screwed up PIP...at least the way it WAS working before the latest "new color scheme" update.

Here's how it worked with Passport:
You could surf with tuner 1 using the channel buttons or the grid and tuner 2 would stay on whatever channel it was on. Tuner 2's buffer would continue to record, so you could use the Swap button to change over and rewind. This worked great!

With MDN pre-update:
If you surfed with tuner 1, whenever you changed channels, the channel you were watching went to tuner 2, and the new one was in tuner 1. It sucked, but I got used to it. I figured out that if you had the PIP open, it wouldn't change channels on tuner 2. This only happened when the PIP was not visible.

With the latest MDN:
I don't know. Sometimes it swaps channels to tuner 2 when you're surfing...sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes both tuners get stuck on the same channel. The worst thing is that tuner 2 is not buffering, so if you swap tuners and try to rewind, the buffer is empty, not matter how long both tuners have been on their respective channels.

This is horrible, but I haven't seen anyone mention it. Is anyone else noticing this behavior?

Speaking of changes in the new MDN, they have totally screwed up PIP...at least the way it WAS working before the latest "new color scheme" update.

Here's how it worked with Passport:
You could surf with tuner 1 using the channel buttons or the grid and tuner 2 would stay on whatever channel it was on. Tuner 2's buffer would continue to record, so you could use the Swap button to change over and rewind. This worked great!

With MDN pre-update:
If you surfed with tuner 1, whenever you changed channels, the channel you were watching went to tuner 2, and the new one was in tuner 1. It sucked, but I got used to it. I figured out that if you had the PIP open, it wouldn't change channels on tuner 2. This only happened when the PIP was not visible.

With the latest MDN:
I don't know. Sometimes it swaps channels to tuner 2 when you're surfing...sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes both tuners get stuck on the same channel. The worst thing is that tuner 2 is not buffering, so if you swap tuners and try to rewind, the buffer is empty, not matter how long both tuners have been on their respective channels.

This is horrible, but I haven't seen anyone mention it. Is anyone else noticing this behavior?

PIP in ODN has always been whack. Sometimes PIP won't buffer at all, other times turning PIP on and off will crash the box. Once you swap out, the PIP window hasn't buffered anything, and then swapping back deletes the buffer.

I don't know what's going on here. For me, the latest MDN has been better. Since the color change, I've noticed less recording errors.

I like to record Married With Children on TBS in the 5-6am hour. Many times some or all of these shows would not record. Sometimes it was very vague and would say "the settop could not record this program". Other times it was more exact "Service No Longer Exists":confused:. It was telling me that TBS analog no longer exists. Plus it would do that with other channels as well. Now, after the color change, in the Recording Log, I see that episodes say "Service No Longer Exists", but it also recorded anyway.

ODN for me will decide to record a program.... and then delete it with a vague error message. Most of the time it says "The channel was not available at the time of recording". I knew our cable didn't go out that often, so I decided to record something and watch it live. The box recorded until the very end of the program, then it was gone.

I have MDN with the new Navigator color sceme,

I don't use PIP, but when I did, I noticed that it was only one size. On Passport you could press the PIP button a second time to make the PIP bigger, press a third time to turn off. For Navigator, you only get one PIP size on MDN, (at least the last time I checked.)

Jack

ODN is the same way, and SARA had always been that way as well.

ODN for me will decide to record a program.... and then delete it with a vague error message. Most of the time it says "The channel was not available at the time of recording". I knew our cable didn't go out that often, so I decided to record something and watch it live. The box recorded until the very end of the program, then it was gone.

I've had MDN since last May, and used to have series recording failures a couple times per week - usually with the message quoted above. But, since last summer I just leave the box ON all the time, and haven't had any recording failures. Not sure if this will help ODN users, or not.

Since we got the 2.4.4-16 update last week, I've turned the box off at night to see if any recordings fail. So far, so good.

Passport also has a secondary banner that is only shown during video transport operation which means it doesn't take up as much screen space as having a full banner. The timecode is visible there too.

I find that the full banner in Navigator (MDN for me) is so aggravating when I pause or play in slow motion. I'm constantly having to hit the Exit button to get rid of the bloated thing. This, the changes in the timecode (which you explained very well), the "jump forward after rewind", and the truncated program descriptions were the first things I noticed different between Passport and Navigator. And they still annoy me to no end. Then to rub salt in the wound, TWC goes and jacks up the monthly DVR rental cost from $7.95 to $10.95. Wow, I get to pay 38% more for all the great new "features" of Navigator.

Two more changes I've noticed that I don't believe have been mentioned here:

- When searching for a program in Passport, it would ghost out letters that were no longer applicable. This would speed up entering letters by skipping over ones that could no longer refine the search. For example, if I enter "a-l-f" in Navigator, all letters are still selectable. While in Passport, only the letters a, i, and r would be left, because "Alfamega", "Alfie", and "Alfred Hitchcock" are all that are left that could match a fourth letter.

- Nasty interlacing artifacts and jaggies during pause, slow motion, fast forward, and rewind of 480i or 1080i content with Navigator. This is most noticeable in animated programs. I'm pretty sure Passport would smooth them out somehow.

Well found something interesting today. If you do a different key sequence, hold vol+/- on the box, then press channel up, it brings you to a 16 page diagnostic screen. On this screen, I went to a page that said "XAIT Information". There were mentions of TWC_ODN_2.4.10-11, or something along the lines of that.

Anyone know what XAIT Information is?
(ODN)

Two more changes I've noticed that I don't believe have been mentioned here:

- When searching for a program in Passport, it would ghost out letters that were no longer applicable. This would speed up entering letters by skipping over ones that could no longer refine the search. For example, if I enter "a-l-f" in Navigator, all letters are still selectable. While in Passport, only the letters a, i, and r would be left, because "Alfamega", "Alfie", and "Alfred Hitchcock" are all that are left that could match a fourth letter.

Actually, that was discussed at length many pages back... but, I'll let it slide this time since you're new around here. :)

I find that the full banner in Navigator (MDN for me) is so aggravating when I pause or play in slow motion. I'm constantly having to hit the Exit button to get rid of the bloated thing. This, the changes in the timecode (which you explained very well), the "jump forward after rewind", and the truncated program descriptions were the first things I noticed different between Passport and Navigator. And they still annoy me to no end. Then to rub salt in the wound, TWC goes and jacks up the monthly DVR rental cost from $7.95 to $10.95. Wow, I get to pay 38% more for all the great new "features" of Navigator.

Two more changes I've noticed that I don't believe have been mentioned here:

- When searching for a program in Passport, it would ghost out letters that were no longer applicable. This would speed up entering letters by skipping over ones that could no longer refine the search. For example, if I enter "a-l-f" in Navigator, all letters are still selectable. While in Passport, only the letters a, i, and r would be left, because "Alfamega", "Alfie", and "Alfred Hitchcock" are all that are left that could match a fourth letter.

- Nasty interlacing artifacts and jaggies during pause, slow motion, fast forward, and rewind of 480i or 1080i content with Navigator. This is most noticeable in animated programs. I'm pretty sure Passport would smooth them out somehow.

Actually, I somewhat like the refusal to disable the invalid buttons in the title search. Sometimes in Passport, this created confusion in me because none of the active letters were in the four cardinal directions, but were sort of diagonal. However, disabling invalid buttons would work great if Nintendo licensed its Wiimote technology to CableLabs, which then would relicense it to OCAP box builders, or if consumer electronics builders created an interface that allowed touch screens to communicate with set top boxes. If all we had were buttons for the four cardinal directions, disabling invalid buttons during button navigation does not work. However, it should be fine to refuse an invalid letter if it is typed.

Maybe the better way to do this is to turn valid buttons to white letters on black backgrounds when they are valid, and gray them out when they are invalid. Allow them to be used in navigation, but disallow their use to input the letters.

However, I would not want the additional load this creates on underpowered ODN boxes like the 8300HDC. It might work great on boxes developed from the ground up for OCAP like the 855xHDC, 865xHDC, or the new Samsung boxes.

Actually, I somewhat like the refusal to disable the invalid buttons in the title search. Sometimes in Passport, this created confusion in me because none of the active letters were in the four cardinal directions, but were sort of diagonal. However, disabling invalid buttons would work great if Nintendo licensed its Wiimote technology to CableLabs, which then would relicense it to OCAP box builders, or if consumer electronics builders created an interface that allowed touch screens to communicate with set top boxes. If all we had were buttons for the four cardinal directions, disabling invalid buttons during button navigation does not work. However, it should be fine to refuse an invalid letter if it is typed.

Maybe the better way to do this is to turn valid buttons to white letters on black backgrounds when they are valid, and gray them out when they are invalid. Allow them to be used in navigation, but disallow their use to input the letters.

However, I would not want the additional load this creates on underpowered ODN boxes like the 8300HDC. It might work great on boxes developed from the ground up for OCAP like the 855xHDC, 865xHDC, or the new Samsung boxes.

I agree. Although we never had a keyboard search with SARA, I can see why that would be very confusing. Considering how laggy my 8300HDC already is, I also wouldn't want these types of features on these boxes. Why did TWC/Bright House deploy these boxes, didn't they know they would have trouble running Navigator on them?

Well found something interesting today. If you do a different key sequence, hold vol+/- on the box, then press channel up, it brings you to a 16 page diagnostic screen. On this screen, I went to a page that said "XAIT Information". There were mentions of TWC_ODN_2.4.10-11, or something along the lines of that.

Anyone know what XAIT Information is?
(ODN)

I believe those are more hardware related diagnostics in general. Such as QAM tuner stats and stuff. I don't know what the XAIT Info is specifically. I've only poked around in there like once on my parents ODN box.

Keyboard search is so slow and the results display so badly implemented that I don't even bother searching. I just jump through the guide on different days to see if a show is repeated.

I believe those are more hardware related diagnostics in general. Such as QAM tuner stats and stuff. I don't know what the XAIT Info is specifically. I've only poked around in there like once on my parents ODN box.

I've never been able to find out, googling, etc.

I did find this interesting:

I was finally able to get a knowledgeable operator today. I told her my problems, and she said she had the exact same issues when she had ODN. Missing programs, HDMI bug, etc. I asked about the ODN update coming, and she told me that there wasn't an ODN update. I told her about 2.4.9-3 and 2.4.10-11 and she put me on hold. She picked up again and said that she didn't have that update anywhere in the pipes. She told me that I should get an MDN box ASAP, and that once she switched, all (see: most) of her problems went away. She said that it is a lot faster, no HDMI issues, etc. I never got around to asking why there wasn't an ODN update in the works, but I imagine it is because most people in Indiana have the old MDN boxes. I also asked about the new Cisco or Samsung DVRs, and she said that she hadn't heard anything along those lines either.

As soon as I clear up some programs, I am going in for MDN. She said they weren't a "rarity" at my local branch, but I am not going to wait long.

Shoot. Forgot to ask if we were on the updated color scheme yet.:p

Keyboard search is so slow and the results display so badly implemented that I don't even bother searching. I just jump through the guide on different days to see if a show is repeated.

I don't even try using the keyboard search on my non-DVR ODN box. It works just as bad as the non-DVR MDN box I had.

However, keyboard search works flawlessly on my MDN DVR.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't get it. Why do the ODN boxes have a thing for waiting? Whenever I pull up the keyboard search menu on the ODN box, it always says "Please Wait". Even changing the channel the other day, it told me to "Please Wait" before the picture came on. :confused::confused::confused:

I think it has something to do with the guide data and the current ODN's incompetence. I'm anxiously awaiting the software upgrade that should be coming soon. I like the upgrade that came to the MDN box.

I've never been able to find out, googling, etc.

I did find this interesting:

I was finally able to get a knowledgeable operator today. I told her my problems, and she said she had the exact same issues when she had ODN. Missing programs, HDMI bug, etc. I asked about the ODN update coming, and she told me that there wasn't an ODN update. I told her about 2.4.9-3 and 2.4.10-11 and she put me on hold. She picked up again and said that she didn't have that update anywhere in the pipes. She told me that I should get an MDN box ASAP, and that once she switched, all (see: most) of her problems went away. She said that it is a lot faster, no HDMI issues, etc. I never got around to asking why there wasn't an ODN update in the works, but I imagine it is because most people in Indiana have the old MDN boxes. I also asked about the new Cisco or Samsung DVRs, and she said that she hadn't heard anything along those lines either.

As soon as I clear up some programs, I am going in for MDN. She said they weren't a "rarity" at my local branch, but I am not going to wait long.

Shoot. Forgot to ask if we were on the updated color scheme yet.:p

Wait? What? There's no update for ODN? So that means I'm gonna be stuck with the HUGE banner and ugly slow blue guide forever on the ODN box!!:eek::eek::eek::mad:

Wait? What? There's no update for ODN? So that means I'm gonna be stuck with the HUGE banner and ugly slow blue guide forever on the ODN box!!:eek::eek::eek::mad:

Well, I don't think so. Look at San Diego. But if the stinking craphole you live in is Indy, apparently so. I have decided that I am getting MDN ASAP. You're right, ODN is very ugly when compared to MDN. I still have 2.4.9_3.... which is lightyears behind some people. I know there are updates out there, so I don't know why she told me that.

Well, I don't think so. Look at San Diego. But if the stinking craphole you live in is Indy, apparently so. I have decided that I am getting MDN ASAP. You're right, ODN is very ugly when compared to MDN. I still have 2.4.9_3.... which is lightyears behind some people. I know there are updates out there, so I don't know why she told me that.

Yes... if your ODN is 2.anything your TW system/division is behind and there are updates available. For sure San Diego and Charlotte are running ODN 3.1.0_11 or higher. Also, the physical appearance of MDN and ODN versions that are currently run here are virtually identical. Some of the blue backgrounds are slightly darker on ODN and the edge/shadow detail on the ODN banners is cleaner/crisper. These differences give the appearance edge to ODN, but I doubt that very many people would ever know there was any difference between the two versions.

Yes... if your ODN is 2.anything your TW system/division is behind and there are updates available. For sure San Diego and Charlotte are running ODN 3.1.0_11 or higher. I think they're the only ones who have it. Which suits me. Let someone else be the guinea pigs. My system has been working great.

I think they're the only ones who have it. Which suits me. Let someone else be the guinea pigs. My system has been working great.

The last upgrade we had has been very good. Color scheme was a huge improvement, added prioritization for series recording and has been very stable. My box has not rebooted since the last time I purposely did it (changed power strip) back in early January. I think there would be much less grousing over ODN if this version was more widely implemented

I knew that ODN had caught up to MDN visually in some areas. I am kind of upset, because I think ODN will eventually surpass MDN in features, but if MDN is more stable for now, I'll go with that. If ODN eventually becomes the better option here, then I can switch back (and hopefully to a new box) if I want to.

I wonder if I call and ask them to come out and bring a 8300HD if they will get it right. I'd prefer to go to the office and pick up the box myself, but it kind of depends. Hopefully they can come out soon to switch me out.

The last upgrade we had has been very good. Color scheme was a huge improvement, added prioritization for series recording and has been very stable. My box has not rebooted since the last time I purposely did it (changed power strip) back in early January. I think there would be much less grousing over ODN if this version was more widely implementedBut there has been reports from San Diego that the last ODN release broke external drives again. My current release has been solid and quite happy with my external drive.

The last upgrade we had has been very good. Color scheme was a huge improvement, added prioritization for series recording and has been very stable. My box has not rebooted since the last time I purposely did it (changed power strip) back in early January. I think there would be much less grousing over ODN if this version was more widely implemented

Do you have eSATA connected to the ODN box? Do you anybody with eSATA and 3.1.0_11? There have been reports of problems with that combination. Haven't seen any reports of other bugs with 3.1.0_11, though.

On the other hand, my 2.4.10_11 version of ODN seem to be basically bug-free, at least during my use (missing features, poor design and the thing being slow at certain operations are other story), so unless I hear eSATA + ODN 3.* version are on speaking terms, I am not looking forward to upgrade at all, despite new features that seem quite nice.

Do you have eSATA connected to the ODN box? Do you anybody with eSATA and 3.1.0_11? There have been reports of problems with that combination. Haven't seen any reports of other bugs with 3.1.0_11, though.

On the other hand, my 2.4.10_11 version of ODN seem to be basically bug-free, at least during my use (missing features, poor design and the thing being slow at certain operations are other story), so unless I hear eSATA + ODN 3.* version are on speaking terms, I am not looking forward to upgrade at all, despite new features that seem quite nice.

No eSATA here, but I have the external drive already built and set aside for it... just need to pick up an eSATA cable.

No eSATA here, but I have the external drive already built and set aside for it... just need to pick up an eSATA cable.The reports from people with an external drive and the new ODN release are very sparse. Please, report your experiences here and/or in the 8300HD and External SATA - It Works!! (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=516559) thread. There are a lot of people who would like some positive news on this issue.

Also, I hope you consulted xnappo's database (http://baseportal.com/cgi-bin/baseportal.pl?htx=/xnappo/navigator) when you chose your external drive.

The reports from people with an external drive and the new ODN release are very sparse. Please, report your experiences here and/or in the 8300HD and External SATA - It Works!! (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=516559) thread. There are a lot of people who would like some positive news on this issue.

Also, I hope you consulted xnappo's database (http://baseportal.com/cgi-bin/baseportal.pl?htx=/xnappo/navigator) when you chose your external drive.

I did check the database but it wouldn't have mattered...I already had this drive (Hitachi Deskstar 7K250) sitting around collecting dust so I will try just for fun and to add my experience to the knowledge pool. Just need to get off my butt and get an eSATA cable... the drive has been sitting next to the STB since xmas, lol.

(I have seen succesful tests results posted under SARA for the 7K500.)

Well, unsurprisingly, no one has their facts straight.

First I was told there was no ODN update. I went today to go get an MDN box, and I called first to make sure they would have one there. They said they did, and so I went over there. I got there, and whaddya know, no MDN. So I took back another 8300HDC, after I was told that it had newer software since it was a newer box.

I get home, and the box loads (after 3 tries) into the old guide. I called to ask why my box showed "e-13" on the display while it booted, and the operator and I got to talking. She told me that I should've had the navigator with the new colors on my old ODN box before it was turned in. I told her that no such thing had happened, and then she told me that they would try to push another update to the boxes soon.


So I guess that means ODN 3 here? I didn't think we would ever see that in Indy. But apparently there are ODN updates coming.... I imagined everyone else would have ODN 3 before we did, so if you don't have it yet, you might be getting it soon.

But who knows. Last night there weren't going to be any ODN updates. Go Figure.

Well, unsurprisingly, no one has their facts straight.

First I was told there was no ODN update. I went today to go get an MDN box, and I called first to make sure they would have one there. They said they did, and so I went over there. I got there, and whaddya know, no MDN. So I took back another 8300HDC, after I was told that it had newer software since it was a newer box.

I get home, and the box loads (after 3 tries) into the old guide. I called to ask why my box showed "e-13" on the display while it booted, and the operator and I got to talking. She told me that I should've had the navigator with the new colors on my old ODN box before it was turned in. I told her that no such thing had happened, and then she told me that they would try to push another update to the boxes soon.


So I guess that means ODN 3 here? I didn't think we would ever see that in Indy. But apparently there are ODN updates coming.... I imagined everyone else would have ODN 3 before we did, so if you don't have it yet, you might be getting it soon.

But who knows. Last night there weren't going to be any ODN updates. Go Figure.I'm sorry if I misunderstand you, but it sounds like you might not be aware that Navagator version releases are pretty much regional. For instance San Diego and at least part of North Carolina is on latest release. Most of the rest of the country is on the next newest release and Brighthouse is notorously a couple of releases behind. The point is, everyone within a given TW region will have the same release for a given STB. You won't see a new release until your region decides to upgrade everyone.

I'm sorry if I misunderstand you, but it sounds like you might not be aware that Navagator version releases are pretty much regional. For instance San Diego and at least part of North Carolina is on latest release. Most of the rest of the country is on the next newest release and Brighthouse is notorously a couple of releases behind. The point is, everyone within a given TW region will have the same release for a given STB. You won't see a new release until your region decides to upgrade everyone.

Sorry, I guess it did make it sound like that. I knew updates were regional. I didn't mean to make it sound like it was only my box that didn't upgrade. They tried to upgrade them last week, and my box shut off and rebooted, but never upgraded. The technician said there was an error and that they were trying to get it resolved. No one got the ODN update, but they tried.

What I don't understand: We're on 2.4.9_3. The person I talked to today said that OCAP Navigator (her words) was getting the update with the new colors. Would we (Indy) really jump to ODN 3 right away?

So I guess that means ODN 3 here? I didn't think we would ever see that in Indy...


I just meant that Bright House is usually behind with updates. I knew that we would get it eventually, but that it would be a while.

I am beginning to think that whoever I talked to today was confused as well. There is just something strange about jumping from 2.4.9_3 to ODN 3 with new colors.

God you cant get the truth out of customer service can you?....i was told we got updates over the last couple of days but i'm told there nothing .Once again here in central ny left in the dark.Am i wrong but don't updates always mean something even though they claim there nothing ? Customer service tells me something about the program guide then i ask him if they are changing the look and he says no ....wow these people talk in tongues! does anyone know what updates they may have done here ....i'm hoping it may be the digital navigator .Anyone with knowledge of our viewing area please help ? i know i have my fingers crossed ben i know you do! :)

Here in Milwaukee WI,

Navigator boxes get the "Start Over" feature this coming Tuesday. But so far, it will only be on about 20 channels:

http://www.jsonline.com/entertainment/tvradio/39818617.html

Jack

There was a Bright House press release in Indy last week. Talked about getting Start Over and Tube Tabs/Quick clips. It also talked about rolling out Navigator, but I presume that is on MDN. Hopefully ODN updates come soon, but I'm beginning to think a watched pot never boils. I'd really like to get an MDN box, but according to an employee at the local office, "they're all OCAP".

:rolleyes:

There was a Bright House press release in Indy last week. Talked about getting Start Over and Tube Tabs/Quick clips. It also talked about rolling out Navigator, but I presume that is on MDN. Hopefully ODN updates come soon, but I'm beginning to think a watched pot never boils. I'd really like to get an MDN box, but according to an employee at the local office, "they're all OCAP".

:rolleyes:


So Navigator has not been downloaded by Brighthouse in Indiana to the MDN boxes in the field yet? With the exception of closed-captioning, the MDN boxes are better than the OCAPS. As long as you have a good MDN box when it is downloaded in your area, it should be ok. For DVR's it should be an 8300 or higher. (The old 8000's are slow.) For non-DVR's the newer model SA's are good. The worst boxes concerning slowness and bug problems are the old Pioneer units. But as they are 8-10 years old, and don't have the memory to run Navigator, users should swap any Pioneer boxes for newer models. I wish people could find more SA8300 NON-C DVR's, which work well with Navigator. (MDN)

Jack

So Navigator has not been downloaded by Brighthouse in Indiana to the MDN boxes in the field yet? With the exception of closed-captioning, the MDN boxes are better than the OCAPS. As long as you have a good MDN box when it is downloaded in your area, it should be ok. For DVR's it should be an 8300 or higher. (The old 8000's are slow.) For non-DVR's the newer model SA's are good. The worst boxes concerning slowness and bug problems are the old Pioneer units. But as they are 8-10 years old, and don't have the memory to run Navigator, users should swap any Pioneer boxes for newer models. I wish people could find more SA8300 NON-C DVR's, which work well with Navigator. (MDN)

Jack

Well, I think it has been rolling out since January... I don't know anyone with a non-C box. A technician I talked with told me I should go for MDN too, speaking from personal experience. She told me to get one with Navigator specifically, which leads me to believe MDN is new around here. I have only had DVR for a few years, I never had any experience with Pioneer boxes. I was told there would be plenty of MDN boxes at my branch, and when I got there, all they had were 8300HDCs. They also said they knew nothing about any new hardware coming our way.

I'm imagining that ODN will (is?) catching up with MDN. I still have yet to figure out why MDN is much more developed and complete that ODN. I was told that they tried to upgrade ODN to the version with the new colors but that the upgrade failed, and most customers' boxes just reset (mine did this as well, watching the Food network at 4 in the afternoon). I honestly don't think that we would jump from 2.4.9_3 to a version with new colors, but I say bring it on. I'm assuming that if there really is an upgrade, (I've been told that there wouldn't be an update, then I was told there was) it should be happening very soon if they tried to update last week.

I still have yet to figure out why MDN is much more developed and complete that ODN.

It's because MDN was developed off the back of the Mystro project started back around 2001. Hence the name Mystro Digital Navigator. They spent so long working on that project and then trying to salvage the development to turn into Navigator that by the time it was in any shape to release to legacy boxes they were already running into the OCAP units and had to build another version.

That would be my understanding.

Of course it could also mean they only have two people working on the OCAP version instead of the three people on MDN. ;)

It's because MDN was developed off the back of the Mystro project started back around 2001. Hence the name Mystro Digital Navigator. They spent so long working on that project and then trying to salvage the development to turn into Navigator that by the time it was in any shape to release to legacy boxes they were already running into the OCAP units and had to build another version.

Ah, I see. That clears it up. I thought it was funny, I asked someone if ODN/OCAP was for some kind of future technology, expandability, etc. and they go "...um. No, I don't think so...".

Ah, I see. That clears it up. I thought it was funny, I asked someone if ODN/OCAP was for some kind of future technology, expandability, etc. and they go "...um. No, I don't think so...".

It is. The FCC has mandated cable companies roll out OCAP boxes since mid-2007 or so. Which is why MDN boxes will start becoming rarer and rarer as the hardware fails.

So Navigator has not been downloaded by Brighthouse in Indiana to the MDN boxes in the field yet? With the exception of closed-captioning, the MDN boxes are better than the OCAPS. As long as you have a good MDN box when it is downloaded in your area, it should be ok. For DVR's it should be an 8300 or higher. (The old 8000's are slow.) For non-DVR's the newer model SA's are good. The worst boxes concerning slowness and bug problems are the old Pioneer units. But as they are 8-10 years old, and don't have the memory to run Navigator, users should swap any Pioneer boxes for newer models. I wish people could find more SA8300 NON-C DVR's, which work well with Navigator. (MDN)

Jack

I second that. We just got TWC in January...And much to our surprise we were giving none C boxes....i was grateful.lol We havent had any problems with our boxes. no reboots, no freezing...The only problem we have is CC...it has a mind of its own and works when it wants to lol

I second that. We just got TWC in January...And much to our surprise we were giving none C boxes....i was grateful.lol We haven't had any problems with our boxes. no reboots, no freezing...The only problem we have is CC...it has a mind of its own and works when it wants to lol

Exactly,

My CC never worked, not even when the DVR was still Passport. When you booted your non-C box for the first time in January, was Navigator on it, or Passport? You know what else I heard, in extreme Northern Wisconsin? They are still ALL Passport up there! On my SA-8300 we got an upgrade to Navigator with the new color scheme. It looks way better! No problems with freezing or slowness with this box. The only thing is when they they updated to the new color scheme we might get 2-3 reboots per week instead of one. But that seems to have subsided.

When we had Passport, they even added Caller ID on TV cuz we also have Digital Phone. The Passport Caller ID would often times not show on the screen, or would shrink to the size of a postage stamp. Navigator's Caller ID has been more reliable, and if you have the new colors of this last Navigator update, I think the appearance looks more polished and professional. I also have not had any failed recordings for a long time.

Jack

Exactly,

My CC never worked, not even when the DVR was still Passport. When you booted your non-C box for the first time in January, was Navigator on it, or Passport? You know what else I heard, in extreme Northern Wisconsin? They are still ALL Passport up there! On my SA-8300 we got an upgrade to Navigator with the new color scheme. It looks way better! No problems with freezing or slowness with this box. The only thing is when they they updated to the new color scheme we might get 2-3 reboots per week instead of one. But that seems to have subsided.

When we had Passport, they even added Caller ID on TV cuz we also have Digital Phone. The Passport Caller ID would often times not show on the screen, or would shrink to the size of a postage stamp. Navigator's Caller ID has been more reliable, and if you have the new colors of this last Navigator update, I think the appearance looks more polished and professional. I also have not had any failed recordings for a long time.

Jack

I've had CC working on 8300HDC perfectly. I don't think there is much difference between SARA Caller ID and ODN Caller ID, except SARA was blue and ODN is black.

I have failed recordings all the time. :p

Also,

Does anyone know what the OCAP boxes do when they upgrade? I thought that maybe I wasn't getting a strong enough signal for an update (Not all of my HD channels come in), so I tried to force an upgrade. I followed the hard reboot instructions here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=4682052#post4682052
and my box did the same thing as the day I brought it home. It went through Cisco bootup screen, then went to mystro, and stuck on 13. Now, the front of my box says "E - 13" and the screen is black.

I'm assuming E means Error. I couldn't get an answer out of BHN last time, they just sent a reboot signal to the box.

Also,

Does anyone know what the OCAP boxes do when they upgrade? I thought that maybe I wasn't getting a strong enough signal for an update (Not all of my HD channels come in), so I tried to force an upgrade. I followed the hard reboot instructions here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=4682052#post4682052
and my box did the same thing as the day I brought it home. It went through Cisco bootup screen, then went to mystro, and stuck on 13. Now, the front of my box says "E - 13" and the screen is black.

I'm assuming E means Error. I couldn't get an answer out of BHN last time, they just sent a reboot signal to the box.

This was my understanding when Passport was updated to Navigator around mid April last year: (On my SA-8300 DVR) (MDN)

1.) They did it sometime between 3-4 am. (lowest hours of viewership)

2.) For the transition the box will turn itself off, possibly reboot, than turn itself off again. Within a few minutes after that it will begin a countdown from 100-to 1 or a count up from 100-1, often times with an F-symbol. (Two years ago, my Pioneer box did this, but fortunately the update did not work. Most reports are that Navigator sucks on Pioneer boxes because of those box model's limited memory.)

3.) The countdown may be proceeded by an F-1 or L-1. I think F stands for Format or Function. "L" is for "Load" "E" indicates an "Error." The countdown takes (or took about 20-30 minutes) After that, if the box does not reboot on its own, you should wait until the correct time shows in your display and press the CBL button on your remote to turn the box back on.

4.) When we got updated to the new Navigator color scheme, the numbers in the LCD display were different. The time was about the same. Your box may go through perhaps 2 reboot process or more when done or settings are checked for the first or second time because the technology has to assimilate itself not only to your box, but also to the cable's head end.

5.) You cannot make an update to Navigator happen on your own through a conventional warm or cold boot. If you see the regular Mystro or OCAP boot screens as your box is rebooting, your box may be updating something, BUT for an IPG change-over you should see something described in what I said for #3 or #4. You get major guide changes and updates as they are passed on (downloaded to your "node".) A node is your specific neighborhood or community within a given radius where the update occurs.

6.) As a general rule of thumb, DON'T reboot your boxes unless there is a problem such as guide freezing, missing channels, repeated slowness or similar issues. You always have the option of waiting for an hour or so depending on your patience and the issue, to see if the problem goes away through the head end being corrected on its own. TOO MUCH REBOOTING (say more than 3x in a given manual "session," ) can also cause problems. Let the box do it's thing on its own in most cases. Make sure that the CORRECT TIME is displayed on the front panel before hitting the CBL button to turn the box back on.

7.) Here's another tip I learned years ago. If you have a picture problem, or sound issue and the CLOCK DOES NOT SHOW the correct time, it is almost always something on the head-end. Rebooting in this case will generally not work. This issue is "out there" and not in your box. You will have to wait for it to subside or call cable to report it.

8.) If the CLOCK DOES SHOW the correct time and you have cable problems relating to your box, the guide, or slowness, this is a case where the problem may not be with the head-end. A reboot of the box may help here.

Jack

Exactly,

My CC never worked, not even when the DVR was still Passport. When you booted your non-C box for the first time in January, was Navigator on it, or Passport? You know what else I heard, in extreme Northern Wisconsin? They are still ALL Passport up there! On my SA-8300 we got an upgrade to Navigator with the new color scheme. It looks way better! No problems with freezing or slowness with this box. The only thing is when they they updated to the new color scheme we might get 2-3 reboots per week instead of one. But that seems to have subsided.



Jack

Navigator was on our boxes...we haven't gotten any reboots yet (fingers crossed).

im a lil excited about the little start over feature that will be working on our boxes this tuesday.

This was my understanding when Passport was updated to Navigator around mid April last year: (On my SA-8300 DVR) (MDN)

1.) They did it sometime between 3-4 am. (lowest hours of viewership)

2.) For the transition the box will turn itself off, possibly reboot, than turn itself off again. Within a few minutes after that it will begin a countdown from 100-to 1 or a count up from 100-1, often times with an F-symbol. (Two years ago, my Pioneer box did this, but fortunately the update did not work. Most reports are that Navigator sucks on Pioneer boxes because of those box model's limited memory.)

3.) The countdown may be proceeded by an F-1 or L-1. I think F stands for Format or Function. "L" is for "Load" "E" indicates an "Error." The countdown takes (or took about 20-30 minutes) After that, if the box does not reboot on its own, you should wait until the correct time shows in your display and press the CBL button on your remote to turn the box back on.

4.) When we got updated to the new Navigator color scheme, the numbers in the LCD display were different. The time was about the same. Your box may go through perhaps 2 reboot process or more when done or settings are checked for the first or second time because the technology has to assimilate itself not only to your box, but also to the cable's head end.

5.) You cannot make an update to Navigator happen on your own through a conventional warm or cold boot. If you see the regular Mystro or OCAP boot screens as your box is rebooting, your box may be updating something, BUT for an IPG change-over you should see something described in what I said for #3 or #4. You get major guide changes and updates as they are passed on (downloaded to your "node".) A node is your specific neighborhood or community within a given radius where the update occurs.

6.) As a general rule of thumb, DON'T reboot your boxes unless there is a problem such as guide freezing, missing channels, repeated slowness or similar issues. You always have the option of waiting for an hour or so depending on your patience and the issue, to see if the problem goes away through the head end being corrected on its own. TOO MUCH REBOOTING (say more than 3x in a given manual "session," ) can also cause problems. Let the box do it's thing on its own in most cases. Make sure that the CORRECT TIME is displayed on the front panel before hitting the CBL button to turn the box back on.

7.) Here's another tip I learned years ago. If you have a picture problem, or sound issue and the CLOCK DOES NOT SHOW the correct time, it is almost always something on the head-end. Rebooting in this case will generally not work. This issue is "out there" and not in your box. You will have to wait for it to subside or call cable to report it.

8.) If the CLOCK DOES SHOW the correct time and you have cable problems relating to your box, the guide, or slowness, this is a case where the problem may not be with the head-end. A reboot of the box may help here.

Jack


Ok, thanks for that Jack. I was just curious because my box rebooted on its own two weeks ago, but it didn't go through those steps. This happened at 4 in the afternoon, but someone at the call center told me they did indeed try to upgrade to the new color scheme, but the update failed. I thought that maybe doing a hard reboot would make it download new software; I suspected that there may have been an issue with my box to a point where it wouldn't have upgraded.

Navigator was on our boxes...we haven't gotten any reboots yet (fingers crossed).

I'm a lil excited about the little start over feature that will be working on our boxes this Tuesday.

Yea,

I just wish it was on more channels. TWC has to get permission from the host channels to carry it, and right now there are only about 20-30 channels AFAIK in any TWC region that have it. I don't know if you saw the link on our HDTV Milwaukee board, but according to the Journal-Sentinel, this is the list of channels that will have it:

http://www.jsonline.com/entertainment/tvradio/39818617.html

How about the rest of the forum? Do you get Start Over where you live?

Jack

Yea,

I just wish it was on more channels. TWC has to get permission from the host channels to carry it, and right now there are only about 20-30 channels AFAIK in any TWC region that have it. I don't know if you saw the link on our HDTV Milwaukee board, but according to the Journal-Sentinel, this is the list of channels that will have it:

http://www.jsonline.com/entertainment/tvradio/39818617.html

How about the rest of the forum? Do you get Start Over where you live?

Jack

Not currently, but Tube Tabs/Quick Clips and Start Over are supposedly coming soon. I also saw an advertisement for ITV, i.e., the billing services/polls that CFL is experimenting with.

Yea,

I just wish it was on more channels. TWC has to get permission from the host channels to carry it, and right now there are only about 20-30 channels AFAIK in any TWC region that have it. I don't know if you saw the link on our HDTV Milwaukee board, but according to the Journal-Sentinel, this is the list of channels that will have it:

http://www.jsonline.com/entertainment/tvradio/39818617.html

How about the rest of the forum? Do you get Start Over where you live?

Jack

Will the start over feature only work on the sd channels???? i hope they extend it to the hd channels as well.

Will the start over feature only work on the sd channels???? i hope they extend it to the hd channels as well.

Not sure about your area but in Greensboro STARTOVER on HD channnels also. Quick clips only on digital not HD. On SARA 1.90.14.1 here.

Not sure about your area but in Greensboro STARTOVER on HD channnels also. Quick clips only on digital not HD. On SARA 1.90.14.1 here.

Yeah, when we had Tube Tabs on SARA they weren't on HD, I had a few analog ones though.

Yeah, when we had Tube Tabs on SARA they weren't on HD, I had a few analog ones though.

Since you have had SARA and now have Navigator how would you compare the two. Which guide did you prefer?

Since you have had SARA and now have Navigator how would you compare the two. Which guide did you prefer?

Well... I guess it depends on what's important to you.

I liked SARA for it's stability, but we never had any program search whatsoever, no series recording, plus SARA is big time ugly. Navigator does beat SARA in the graphics department by a little bit, and if you have an updated color scheme, it wins by a long shot. http://www.technologyevangelist.com/images/SARA.jpg

Also, it took forever for them to deploy caller ID on SARA, but it worked out of the box on ODN. With SARA, I never had missed recordings or HDMI problems. Navigator shows channel logos, but takes longer to boot up. Also, my 8300HDC runs a lot hotter than my 8300HD ever did.

I like SARA for its stability, seniority.
I like ODN for its expandability, update UI.

how about the rest of the forum? Do you get Start Over where you live?

Jack

we got start over awhile ago. i've only seen it on SD. i have yet to actually use it. i cant see it as being anything useful for me unless my habits change.

Well... I guess it depends on what's important to you.

I liked SARA for it's stability, but we never had any program search whatsoever, no series recording, plus SARA is big time ugly. Navigator does beat SARA in the graphics department by a little bit, and if you have an updated color scheme, it wins by a long shot. http://www.technologyevangelist.com/images/SARA.jpg

Also, it took forever for them to deploy caller ID on SARA, but it worked out of the box on ODN. With SARA, I never had missed recordings or HDMI problems. Navigator shows channel logos, but takes longer to boot up. Also, my 8300HDC runs a lot hotter than my 8300HD ever did.

I like SARA for its stability, seniority.
I like ODN for its expandability, update UI.

That's interesting. On my SARA version we have had first run season pass recording for years. We also have first run and repeats plus in this timeslot on this day plus in this t imeslot eveyday., We also had manual recording. Did you have this on your SARA. We never had a search engine worth a flip. SARA is very very stable and reliable. Only one misssed recording in four years and that was a result of guide data. NCIS went from NAVY NCIS TO JUST NCIS. NAVIGATOR does have a better skin and years in advance of SARA in search engine.

Does anyone have any updated information on how Navigator defines a program listed as "New" in the IPG? How long do "new" programs stay as "New" indicated as such in the guide? There used to be a lot of conflicting information about this topic, and was wondering if anybody can clarify this? Has anyone noticed the "New" programs being more reliably marked with the new Navigator color scheme?

One feature that I loved about Passport for their Sports categories was they offered a LIVE sports category. When you selected the LIVE sports category, you could be pretty certain that what you were seeing is live. Navigator has no LIVE SPORTS category. Navigator still likes to mark programing content as "New" often times when it is not.

Jack

Does anyone have any updated information on how Navigator defines a program listed as "New" in the IPG? How long do "new" programs stay as "New" indicated as such in the guide? There used to be a lot of conflicting information about this topic, and was wondering if anybody can clarify this? Has anyone noticed the "New" programs being more reliably marked with the new Navigator color scheme?

One feature that I loved about Passport for their Sports categories was they offered a LIVE sports category. When you selected the LIVE sports category, you could be pretty certain that what you were seeing is live. Navigator has no LIVE SPORTS category. Navigator still likes to mark programing content as "New" often times when it is not.

Jack

My observation has been that a program is labeled new for all showings that occur within a week of premiere, but that ODN will not record the same episode twice.

This actually is a nice feature, because it allows the box to resolve conflicts on its own by recording a show with a lower priority in a later time slot. I make sure that broadcast network shows have the highest priority and cable network shows such as Burn Notice or The Closer (that repeat the "new" episodes several times) have low priorities.... if one of their initial showings is in conflict with a network show, they automatically get bumped to the next non-conflicting showing, even if I have it set to record new only.

I don't remember which version of ODN first allowed series prioritization, but my current version (3.1.0_11) has it and it works quite well in this regard.

Well... I guess it depends on what's important to you.

I liked SARA for it's stability, but we never had any program search whatsoever, no series recording, plus SARA is big time ugly. Navigator does beat SARA in the graphics department by a little bit, and if you have an updated color scheme, it wins by a long shot. http://www.technologyevangelist.com/images/SARA.jpg

I like SARA for its stability, seniority.
I like ODN for its expandability, update UI.

PFFFFT!! Speak for yourself. I like the SARA DVR interface better. It shows much more information about the programs than the Navigator one. The Navigator DVR screen looks like it is designed in the style of Passport, and I didn't like the Passport screen either.

I like the way the SARA menu has the info box about the show at the top of the screen and utilizes the horizontal area of the bottom of the screen to display the shows and info about them. It makes more sense than having a long vertical list to the left and putting the show info on the right, with all the info crammed into the info box.

And the color scheme, I like the new MDN color scheme better than the electric blue of ODN, but really I'd prefer colors like SARA, which looks like the old version of Passport.

I have a feeling the reason why these boxes suck stronger than an industrial Hoover is that flashy, fancy gradient color scheme is a memory hog.

I used to have a Pioneer box. It worked perfectly with Passport. When Navigator was added, it crashed and froze up almost constantly. I have no doubt that it is because the new graphic software is too much for the older box.

Does anyone have any updated information on how Navigator defines a program listed as "New" in the IPG? How long do "new" programs stay as "New" indicated as such in the guide? There used to be a lot of conflicting information about this topic, and was wondering if anybody can clarify this? Has anyone noticed the "New" programs being more reliably marked with the new Navigator color scheme?

One feature that I loved about Passport for their Sports categories was they offered a LIVE sports category. When you selected the LIVE sports category, you could be pretty certain that what you were seeing is live. Navigator has no LIVE SPORTS category. Navigator still likes to mark programing content as "New" often times when it is not.

Jack

MDN(see signature) does not list anything as LIVE. Only "new", for sports and entertainment. The live sports recording feature was nice on Passport, but you can do something similar with Navigator by using RECORD OPTIONS to "extend end time".

The other thing it does, I see it is a common problem, is list every airing of a show as "New", even when it is a repeat of the same show. But with MDN(see signature) I never had a problem with conflicts or it recording the same show twice.

The other useless thing both my MDN and ODN have now is the year is listed in show description for every show. They can't label shows as "HDTV" like Passport used to, but they can tell me the year its from? :confused::confused::confused: Whoopee!!

MDN(see signature) does not list anything as LIVE. Only "new", for sports and entertainment. The live sports recording feature was nice on Passport, but you can do something similar with Navigator by using RECORD OPTIONS to "extend end time".

The other thing it does, I see it is a common problem, is list every airing of a show as "New", even when it is a repeat of the same show. But with MDN(see signature) I never had a problem with conflicts or it recording the same show twice.

The other useless thing both my MDN and ODN have now is the year is listed in show description for every show. They can't label shows as "HDTV" like Passport used to, but they can tell me the year its from? :confused::confused::confused: Whoopee!!

I get both "HD" and "Live" tags in my show descriptions... Looking at it right now on Fox NASCAR race.

The "New" tag, and presumably the "HD" tag are [Guide Data] dependent, but not necessarily [Software] dependent. For example, TWC-ELP uses a SARA software version capable of using the "New" tag to set series recordings, but does not have/display that information in the [Guide Data] -- thus no "New Only" option in the series recording screen.

Based upon following this thread, I *believe* the functionality to only record a single copy of a series recording episode even if the [Guide Data] indicates more than one instance as "New" is something that is NAVIGATOR software version/configuration dependent. However, I only have recollection of PASSPORT in KC,KS and am currently still on SARA here in ELP,TX. It is something I am interested in, but not really hopeful for given current experiences here.

v/r,
C-F

I get both "HD" and "Live" tags in my show descriptions... Looking at it right now on Fox NASCAR race.

What version? :confused:

On 2.4.1 I have:

NASCAR Racing
NEW. (2009) Sprint Cup: Auto Club 500: From Auto Club Speedway in Fontana, Calif. [CC] (headphones) 5 hr Runtime

That's it, from the HD channel.

What version? :confused:

On 2.4.1 I have:

NASCAR Racing
NEW. (2009) Sprint Cup: Auto Club 500: From Auto Club Speedway in Fontana, Calif. [CC] (headphones) 5 hr Runtime

That's it, from the HD channel.

Exactly the same here.

Exactly the same here.

It must be a version thing. Even though we have a new color scheme(STILL SNUBBING OCAP BOXES), TWC still has even more new feautres listed.

Additional changes to Navigator, including longer show descriptions, remote DVR management and other enhancements, are scheduled for later this year. Be sure to visit timewarnercable.com for more updates.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/northeastohio/learn/cable/navigator/default.html

Why the hell can't they add it now? When they added the useless feature of showing the date, it just showed up one day without any software update.

What version? :confused:

On 2.4.1 I have:

NASCAR Racing
NEW. (2009) Sprint Cup: Auto Club 500: From Auto Club Speedway in Fontana, Calif. [CC] (headphones) 5 hr Runtime

That's it, from the HD channel.

TWC-CLT, ODN 3.1.0_11:

NR, NEW, 2009, Sprint Cup: Auto Club 500, From Auto Club Speedway in Fontana Calif. (Local) HD, Live, [CC], Headphones, 5 Hr

Similar display (including HD & Live) on ESPN for Heat-Magic NBA

Just about every HD program has the HD tag in the description (in banner and guide). Maybe 2 or 3 don't. Here's a sample I had posted earlier (HD tag only):

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/jcalabria/Banner/Banner029Small.jpg

Just about every HD program has the HD tag in the description (in banner and guide). Maybe 2 or 3 don't. When I sample the HD channels here, it is very inconsistent. Some say HDTV, some say letterBox, some say both, most say neither. However, it is generally consistent within each channel. For example, almost every CBS program shows HDTV, and NBC mostly says LetterBox.

I've seen the Letterbox tag on SD programming.

It seems that the only consistent element between us is... inconsistency:rolleyes:

TWC-CLT, ODN 3.1.0_11:

NR, NEW, 2009, Sprint Cup: Auto Club 500, From Auto Club Speedway in Fontana Calif. (Local) HD, Live, [CC], Headphones, 5 Hr

Similar display (including HD & Live) on ESPN for Heat-Magic NBA

Just about every HD program has the HD tag in the description (in banner and guide). Maybe 2 or 3 don't. Here's a sample I had posted earlier (HD tag only):

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/jcalabria/Banner/Banner029Small.jpg

How does the use of headphones factor in the description above? This I have not seen.

Jack

When I sample the HD channels here, it is very inconsistent. Some say HDTV, some say letterBox, some say both, most say neither. However, it is generally consistent within each channel. For example, almost every CBS program shows HDTV, and NBC mostly says LetterBox.

Going through the HD section of the Access Menu even though the shows are categorized that way none of them have an HD denotation in the description.

I think that's the first time I have pressed A for the Access Menu in a year. :D

How does the use of headphones factor in the description above? This I have not seen.

Stereo. Which is pretty pointless these days.

Didn't Passport used to indicate Dolby Digital Surround?

How does the use of headphones factor in the description above? This I have not seen.

Jack

Stereo... sometimes the pays will list Dolby 5.1, but I do not routinely see that.

Stereo, what is this, 1992? Does anybody not broadcast in stereo anymore?

Passport used to say Dolby Digital and HDTV. I liked that. Also, it used to say the genre of the program. I'll make up an example:

The Office:
Episode: Crime Aid
After thieves prey on the office, Michael takes a bite out of crime by holding an auction to raise funds to replace the stolen items. Pam aims to land a part-time job at corporate to pay for art school. Program Type: Series/Sitcom. Dolby Digital. [HDTV] [CC] Stereo New.

Satch Man (Jack)

my box just rebooted...:( for the first time. lol i guess my luck has ended.lol

I was going through the diagnostics again, and noticed something different.

Usually, page 3 ( I think) has a bunch of yellow. I noticed "Session ID" and it said 0. Well, today I looked and it had a long string of numbers. I doubt it means anything.

Also, does anyone have trouble getting Chiller TV? My box never says to call customer service, and I know I should get that channel, but in the diagnostics it says Unauthorized.

Also, does anyone have trouble getting Chiller TV? My box never says to call customer service, and I know I should get that channel, but in the diagnostics it says Unauthorized.

When was Chiller added to your line-up and what does it say on the channel assigned when you tune to it? If it is listed in a package to which you know you subscribe, reboot your box. If that doesn't make it come in, you'll have to call Customer Service. One tip: Don't mention that you know how to get to those diagnostic screens when you call CS. The phone reps get very rude and abrasive if you do because they only want their techs to know about those screens. Just say, "I have the -------------- (whatever package is a part of Chiller for your area) and Chiller is not coming in." and they will take it from there.

Jack

When was Chiller added to your line-up and what does it say on the channel assigned when you tune to it? If it is listed in a package to which you know you subscribe, reboot your box. If that doesn't make it come in, you'll have to call Customer Service. One tip: Don't mention that you know how to get to those diagnostic screens when you call CS. The phone reps get very rude and abrasive if you do because they only want their techs to know about those screens. Just say, "I have the -------------- (whatever package is a part of Chiller for your area) and Chiller is not coming in." and they will take it from there.

Jack

Well, it is supposed to be a free channel for anyone with a digital receiver, and they just added it about a month ago. I think it is the digital variety package. I did a soft reboot (vol+/- and info) and it still wouldn't come in.

I'll call later.

Also, for those who are interested, pg.3 (Session Info) is for OnDemand programming.

Kansas City was upgraded to ODN 3.1.0_11 today. The Navigator looks much different in terms of different skins and is a notably little faster. Will check into new features.

Update: Bad news... can only see 1 week of programming in the guide.

Kansas City was upgraded to ODN 3.1.0_11 today. The Navigator looks much different in terms of different skins and is a notably little faster. Will check into new features.

Update: Bad news... can only see 1 week of programming in the guide.

On ODN 2.4.9_3 in Indy, we only get 1 week, no matter what.

What version did you have previously?

On ODN 2.4.9_3 in Indy, we only get 1 week, no matter what.

What version did you have previously?

I don't think that any version of ODN ever did more than 1 week.

I don't think any TWC guide has done more than one week.

Never saw more than a week here either, even going back to my Pioneer/Passport box.

My bad. Not sure how I thought there was 2 week guide but am bummin it's only a week.

No new features in the settings except two that I don't recal seeing before about turning off popups and turning to next channel if you punch in a channel that doesn't exist.

Otherwise it appears to only be new skins and a bit faster. Maybe bug fixes.

I can't believe the guide is not 16:9 yet.

My bad. Not sure how I thought there was 2 week guide but am bummin it's only a week.

No new features in the settings except two that I don't recal seeing before about turning off popups and turning to next channel if you punch in a channel that doesn't exist.

Otherwise it appears to only be new skins and a bit faster. Maybe bug fixes.

I can't believe the guide is not 16:9 yet.

Series prioritization may be new for you, as well as nearest channel tune function for when you enter a non-existent channel. Both are welcome additions. Its also been very stable for me.

I can't believe the guide is not 16:9 yet.I believe I've read that the hardware won't support 16:9.

Also, can you confirm that your external drive survived the upgrade?

None of TWC's current crop of hardware (at least here) is capable of producing a 16x9 guide. I have contacted my local reps about hardware upgrades and was informed they have no plans to supply up to date hardware. The 8300 is our current model and it's about 3 generations behind.

Also, can you confirm that your external drive survived the upgrade?

Yes, no issues with eSATA drive. Content recorded from previous version is still there.

New features...

- A screen saver shows the TWC eye symbol with time of day bouncing around.
- Set Priority of a series in the series manager
- In record series options, it has an 'air time' with by hour only, haven't played with it yet
- I don't recall if old versions did this but if playing a recording and you press/hold ff/rw, it jumps in 15 minute chunks.

- I don't recall if old versions did this but if playing a recording and you press/hold ff/rw, it jumps in 15 minute chunks.Yeah, thats been around for at least a couple of releases.

- Set Priority of a series in the series manager

i want this now. now i said.

New features...

- A screen saver shows the TWC eye symbol with time of day bouncing around.
- Set Priority of a series in the series manager
- In record series options, it has an 'air time' with by hour only, haven't played with it yet
- I don't recall if old versions did this but if playing a recording and you press/hold ff/rw, it jumps in 15 minute chunks.

Old versions like 2.4.10_11 did do 15-minute skip just like that.

^Ah, I couldn't remember. I wish there were an option to set it to 30sec chunks to skip commercials.

It's really disappointing this release doesn't have more flexible options. It doesn't take much effort to add some of the minor features many have requested. Odd they would spend more effort on different skins that have no effective additional value. So far, I only see one major and a few minor changes.

Satch Man (Jack)

my box just rebooted...:( for the first time. lol i guess my luck has ended.lol

Mine rebooted last night, too. Around 7:10pm, I was deleting ABC News and it froze up. It wouldn't take any input from the remote, and it rebooted a couple minutes later. It was acting a little sluggish just beforehand.

Can't recall the old version but the new version lists this information in the Info screen...

Title
MPAA Rating, *** Rating, (Year), Long Description, (Category), HD, CC, Length of content

Is that different?

Odd they would spend more effort on different skins that have no effective additional value.I've said this over and over again--minimal effort by the engineers, big bang in customer satisfaction, for some customers. (There's nothing that they can do that will make the product better for everyone). There were many complaints about the eye-straining blue-on-blue-on-blue color scheme and it was easily and quickly fixed.

And it's not really a new "skin", as I think of such--no new line-art, geometry or fonts, just some modification of colors.

Can't recall the old version but the new version lists this information in the Info screen...

Title
MPAA Rating, *** Rating, (Year), Long Description, (Category), HD, CC, Length of content

Is that different?

Maybe... we were having that discussion here on Sunday (2/22)... some were complaining about the lack of "Live" and "HD" tags, which I consistently have with ODN 3.1.0_11 but others with different versions did not. However, the reports of who had what were not always consistent so there may be more at play other than just the ODN version number.

I've said this over and over again--minimal effort by the engineers, big bang in customer satisfaction, for some customers. (There's nothing that they can do that will make the product better for everyone). There were many complaints about the eye-straining blue-on-blue-on-blue color scheme and it was easily and quickly fixed.

And it's not really a new "skin", as I think of such--no new line-art, geometry or fonts, just some modification of colors.

Maybe the value isn't so much what is seen, but in how Navigator functions after the update. It's hard for me to believe that the ONLY thing changed would be the new GUI. I have seen improvements in performance, speed, and more reliable VOD programing. A little more reboots at first, but those seemed to have subsided. No missed recordings since the upgrade either.

Jack

Maybe the value isn't so much what is seen, but in how Navigator functions after the update. It's hard for me to believe that the ONLY thing changed would be the new GUI. I have seen improvements in performance, speed, and more reliable VOD programing. A little more reboots at first, but those seemed to have subsided. No missed recordings since the upgrade either.Exactly--there's absolutely no way that any point release distributed to end users wouldn't have dozens of bug fixes rolled into it, along with functional and cosmetic changes. Bug fixing is a continuous process, and every new release you see will repair a bunch of problems that you probably never would encounter.

AHHHH Maybe us SARA folk willl get to see NAVIGATOR before we reach retirement age. However sadly I belive it's stilll a long way away for us.