AHHHH Maybe us SARA folk will get to see NAVIGATOR before we reach retirement age. However sadly I believe it's still a long way away for us.

Yes,

I think you are right and I feel bad for you and Ben that your division of TWC seems to be in the stone age compared to other markets. The theory that I have (only a theory) is because the SARA software is already SDV ready, whereas Passport was not without the needed updates that TWC refused to pay, they may be doing all the Passport systems first. (Northern Wisconsin is STILL Passport!) Navigator got so much bad press when it first was released. (It's 100 times better now) that TWC does not want to take even the slightest risk in releasing this guide until it's 90% or better for SARA prime time. Since SARA is SDV ready, whereas Passport was not, TWC may not be in any rush to deploy Navigator in a market that THEY THINK. (emphasis theirs, not mine) may not need it.

How are SARA's New York Divisions doing with HD channel adds? Users really should be getting some improvements in this area. Here in Milwaukee, they are planning for about 5 more channels next month, bringing our total to at least 50, and there are about 8 more channels that they are testing for HD. Not sure of all of them, but the biggest deal is MLB HD in March, just in time for the Spring Season!

Jack

Yes,

I think you are right and I feel bad for you and Ben that your division of TWC seems to be in the stone age compared to other markets. The theory that I have (only a theory) is because the SARA software is already SDV ready, whereas Passport was not without the needed updates that TWC refused to pay, they may be doing all the Passport systems first. (Northern Wisconsin is STILL Passport!) Navigator got so much bad press when it first was released. (It's 100 times better now) that TWC does not want to take even the slightest risk in releasing this guide until it's 90% or better for SARA prime time. Since SARA is SDV ready, whereas Passport was not, TWC may not be in any rush to deploy Navigator in a market that THEY THINK. (emphasis theirs, not mine) may not need it.

How are SARA's New York Divisions doing with HD channel adds? Users really should be getting some improvements in this area. Here in Milwaukee, they are planning for about 5 more channels next month, bringing our total to at least 50, and there are about 8 more channels that they are testing for HD. Not sure of all of them, but the biggest deal is MLB HD in March, just in time for the Spring Season!

Jack

Your theory may be correct... Passport was holding back channel expansion via SDV but SARA isn't. Charlotte was Passport and got Navigator last year. Greensboro is right up the road and still has SARA... yet we have had parallel channel expansions in both systems ever since SDV went mainstream after our Navigator upgrade.

AHHHH Maybe us SARA folk willl get to see NAVIGATOR before we reach retirement age. However sadly I belive it's stilll a long way away for us.

...And I wish things could go the OPPOSITE direction.

I WANT to go FROM Navigator TO SARA!!! :D:D:D:D:D

Uggg! I can't stand SARA any longer. I preferred it over Navigator when Nav first got deployed and had major issues, but for all intents and purposes Nav is now stable and functional. The only thing lacking is guide customization which I could live without. We currently have 14 HD channels "testing" in our division. I know for a fact that USA, Fx, and Fox News are ones, but no idea what the others are. If we get a good line up out of this, it may hold me over from switching. I really wish we'd get Navigator at the same time.

Since you have an 8300HD, it would get MDN, which actually is OK. Surprisingly, the software for the older DVRs is more stable and performs better. Unfortunately, the old DVRs are becoming extinct, especially HD equipment, as more HD equipment is needed now then a few years back. So almost everything given out now is new, and gets ODN. Garbage is too kind of a word for ODN. I love the 8300HD and hate the 4250HDC. If I wouldn't have to pay a fee for destroying TWC proerty I'd probably have already smashed the 4250HDC with an ax by now. Horrible software!!

If you get Navigator, and MDN version 2.4.1, you'll probably like it. It has the new color scheme and better looking menus that previous versions.

Well, I would keep my box until new hardware came out. I'd just have to get a DVR Expander Drive because the 160GB isn't close to being big enough. I was out of town for a week and missed a ton of recordings due to lack of hard drive space. Everything I record is basically HD and the 20 hours on the 8300 just doesn't come close to being enough!

If you have a non-C HD box, definitely keep it. I only was stuck with a C box because I used to have a non-HD Pioneer box. That old Pioneer box is on the same performance level as the new OCAP box. The only improvement is I can now use the "B" search feature. I did get the "Please Wait" screen alot, but at least it even loaded. The older boxes(they have to be close to 10 years old by now:eek:) would not even load the search feature on MDN.

I have decided that the reason why this box says Please Wait so much with searching is the lack of a secondary tuner. With DVR boxes, it loads IPG data and does program searches without interrupting the show, unless the other tuner is recording.

That's another gripe: why aren't ALL new STBs dual tuner, regardless of DVR status? It's not such a big deal anymore, it wouldn't be ahrd to have two tuners for PIP for every box. Plus, for that reason alone(IPG data loading and program search) it should be the norm now.

Agreed, hold on to non-c boxes until they completely stop working.

I don't have a whole lot of issues with my 8300HDC, I don't necessarily think it is a bad box, just bad software. ODN hardly ever reboots for me, and I've never had and wait screens.

But yes, MDN beats ODN by a long shot.

If you have a non-C HD box, definitely keep it. I only was stuck with a C box because I used to have a non-HD Pioneer box. That old Pioneer box is on the same performance level as the new OCAP box. The only improvement is I can now use the "B" search feature. I did get the "Please Wait" screen alot, but at least it even loaded. The older boxes(they have to be close to 10 years old by now:eek:) would not even load the search feature on MDN.

I have decided that the reason why this box says Please Wait so much with searching is the lack of a secondary tuner. With DVR boxes, it loads IPG data and does program searches without interrupting the show, unless the other tuner is recording.

That's another gripe: why aren't ALL new STBs dual tuner, regardless of DVR status? It's not such a big deal anymore, it wouldn't be ahrd to have two tuners for PIP for every box. Plus, for that reason alone(IPG data loading and program search) it should be the norm now.I can't be certain, but I doubt that the second inband tuner has much to do with IPG data loading--these boxes generally have a separate PSK tuner element for forward and return data and I think that all guide data and firmware updates come through that (I believe that the CableCARD standard requires either that or a full DOCSIS modem, but that would only affect the "C" models). The amount of data involved is trivial--I'd be shocked if two weeks worth of guide data, almost entirely text, were as much as a single megabyte.

I can't be certain, but I doubt that the second inband tuner has much to do with IPG data loading--these boxes generally have a separate PSK tuner element for forward and return data and I think that all guide data and firmware updates come through that (I believe that the CableCARD standard requires either that or a full DOCSIS modem, but that would only affect the "C" models). The amount of data involved is trivial--I'd be shocked if two weeks worth of guide data, almost entirely text, were as much as a single megabyte.

Interesting. As far back as I can remember---with Passport in the early days of digital cable, the guide always had about two days of data loaded that you could see. Anything farther out than that had to be "loaded" and the audio/video would cut out and the top right window said: "loading guide data, one moment please". Navigator now just says "Please Wait". So it seemed that whenever the data was loaded, that caused the channel to go dark for a few seconds, which is kinda annoying.

But then the DVR boxes came out, and whenever the guide data loaded, the picture remained on. Much better. But when the other tuner was used, the box would act like the old non-DVR boxes.

So I wonder, is that something in all this software, that the A/V momentarily goes dark while loading data?

Agreed, hold on to non-c boxes until they completely stop working.

I don't have a whole lot of issues with my 8300HDC, I don't necessarily think it is a bad box, just bad software. ODN hardly ever reboots for me, and I've never had and wait screens.

But yes, MDN beats ODN by a long shot.

I had an awful time when I had that box. It once said "Please Wait" during a live movie on HBO HD, for no reason at all!!! I was in disbelief.

And even with the 4250HDC, I've had Please Wait just flipping a few hours ahead in the guide, usually around 6 am/pm it seems to be flaky with the data.

Also, in the Settings Menu, try scrolling left and right between the different options: DISPLAY, AUDIO, TIMERS, etc or bring up the Access Menu. It will say "Please Wait" in the grid for about a second. I don't get it, this box loves saying WAIT!! ;)

The thing I hate is both Charlotte and Raleigh are both around 90 minutes from us in Greensboro. My beach house in Emerald Isle has Navigator as Charlotte and Raleigh do. My beach Navigator is non dvr on a new pioneer box and I love it. Only thr Triad area of North Carolina is without Navigator. Yet we are all in the Time Warner Carolinas Division. We alll get the same HD channels at the same time as well as VOD channels. Why we in the Triad are still on SARA pis@@s the heck outta me.

The thing I hate is both Charlotte and Raleigh are both around 90 minutes from us in Greensboro. My beach house in Emerald Isle has Navigator as Charlotte and Raleigh do. My beach Navigator is non dvr on a new pioneer box and I love it. Only thr Triad area of North Carolina is without Navigator. Yet we are all in the Time Warner Carolinas Division. We alll get the same HD channels at the same time as well as VOD channels. Why we in the Triad are still on SARA pis@@s the heck outta me.

Wilson has it's own fiber-optic TV service and they are only 90 minutes away from me. SARA or Navigator, either way they get a better option.

I wish Carrboro/Chapel Hill would get so annoyed with TWC that they build their own system.

The theory that I have (only a theory) is because the SARA software is already SDV ready, whereas Passport was not without the needed updates that TWC refused to pay, they may be doing all the Passport systems first. (Northern Wisconsin is STILL Passport!) Navigator got so much bad press when it first was released. (It's 100 times better now) that TWC does not want to take even the slightest risk in releasing this guide until it's 90% or better for SARA prime time. Since SARA is SDV ready, whereas Passport was not, TWC may not be in any rush to deploy Navigator in a market that THEY THINK. (emphasis theirs, not mine) may not need it.


No need to theorize, that's entirely accurate. It's probably referenced several times in the origin of this thread. They are not doing anything that they don't need to. To compete with HD count and general bandwidth issues their priority is getting SDV enabled and since Passport is an obstacle they are dealing with those first.

They don't need to update SARA because SDV and all their enhanced TV modules work with it. Why bother with having to send out leaflets and spend man hours prepping the update when they can just let SARA sit there until the wheels fall off?

You summed up TWC completely in that last sentence. They don't do anything unless they think they absolutely need to. The quote from one of their CEOs demonstrated that when he said they will only deploy DOCSIS 3.0 modems (and the massive boost in bandwidth speeds that go with it) only to areas that have direct competition because customers don't need it, according to them.

No need to theorize, that's entirely accurate. It's probably referenced several times in the origin of this thread. They are not doing anything that they don't need to. To compete with HD count and general bandwidth issues their priority is getting SDV enabled and since Passport is an obstacle they are dealing with those first.

They don't need to update SARA because SDV and all their enhanced TV modules work with it. Why bother with having to send out leaflets and spend man hours prepping the update when they can just let SARA sit there until the wheels fall off?

Does that mean TWC doesn't have to/won't replace SARA with Navigator before going SDV?

In NE Ohio, the TWC areas used to be Passport, they were switched to Navigator last year. SDV has been running since some time in late January and a good number of channels, even HD are now on SDV. And it seems every area that has Navigator also has SDV.

Then there's other areas that were Adelphia. They're still on SARA and as of now, SDV is not active in those areas. So the question is, why are they doing this? It has been kicked around our local forum that they will not do SDV until Navigator is downloaded. But since SARA is SDV capable, why not have SDV coverage across the entire area?

It seems TWC here is constantly stuck on stupid when it comes to HDTV. Their cheif suit said "this project" will be completed sometime in mid-March, yet Adelphia areas have yet to see anything. And the new channel added Chiller is SDV in Navigator areas, but not in SARA areas.

Does that mean TWC doesn't have to/won't replace SARA with Navigator before going SDV?

Not based on what they've said or has been reported in the past. SARA can apparently do SDV fine if they want it to.

Here's an "official" response to a question Crazywoody asked a while back:

C. SC is SARA and while Passport may have a couple of more functionality niceties on the guide, I wouldn't trade to Passport for all the tea in China. No Passport Divisions can get CID on TV, Enhanced TV, SDV, Start Over, Quick Clips, Sports Trackers, etc until they get MDN. As a result, Passport Divisions will get the MDN prior to SARA, so that they can become as technically capable as your system is now.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=8674104&postcount=148

I can't be certain, but I doubt that the second inband tuner has much to do with IPG data loading--these boxes generally have a separate PSK tuner element for forward and return data and I think that all guide data and firmware updates come through that (I believe that the CableCARD standard requires either that or a full DOCSIS modem, but that would only affect the "C" models). The amount of data involved is trivial--I'd be shocked if two weeks worth of guide data, almost entirely text, were as much as a single megabyte.

Seing what happens in ODN's diagnostics, I would think that the second 256QAM in-band tuner is used whenever possible to receive the guide updates because 38Mbps from the in-band tuner is much faster than 1.544Mbps the QPSK out-of-band modem operates at. The QPSK modem is used when both 256QAM tuners are being used by either PIP or recording, making it impossible to load the data by tuning one of the 256QAM tuners to the carousel. The proof is that ODN counts the number of in-band and out-of-band bytes read in its diagnostics. The out-of-band bytes read usually stays at zero, meaning some in-band tuner was used to load the data. However, the out-of-band bytes will occasionally go nonzero when I am using both tuners, like when I am recording on one channel but am watching or recording another channel.

It is also true that CableCARD standards require both a QPSK modem and a full DOCSIS modem. However, the DOCSIS modem sits unused in Navigator, becuase Navigator still uses the legacy QPSK modem in DAVIC mode so that the same server using the same DAVIC modem at the head-end can communicate with both MDN and ODN boxes.

Not based on what they've said or has been reported in the past. SARA can apparently do SDV fine if they want it to.

Here's an "official" response to a question Crazywoody asked a while back:

The thing that pisses me off most about this is the person interviewed from our local TWC is a pantload. He said things like "not favoring one part of the system over another" and trying to "get things on the same page" which basically means no earth moving numbers of new channels until all areas are SDV, but they're dragging their feet in the SARA areas. And it's worse since SARA is SDV capable.

Luckily they have officially announced that we are getting 5 new HD channels on March 15. Whether or not they will be SDV is anyone's guess.

Nick we are stuck with SARA for the indefinite future. It is running SDV perfectly and we have 14 pending HD channels in our guide right now. When they launched our new website with Navigator I was thrilled that our division was FINALLY doing something progressive. When I called to get info and emailed the division head, I got the response that they had no plans to do anything on the website, but would be adding some HD. They finally took down the references to Navigator, but a few screen shots remain. I still may switch because I know I'm going to have to get an external HDD and I can use that money toward a second DVR on DirecTV and they won't charge me and extra DVR fee to do so. That will give me 1TB of space! If we got Nav with a good chink of HD I would probably stick around and just buy a drive.

Wilson has it's own fiber-optic TV service and they are only 90 minutes away from me. SARA or Navigator, either way they get a better option.

I wish Carrboro/Chapel Hill would get so annoyed with TWC that they build their own system.

My parents live in Wilson and have Greenlight. The have have an 8300HD with SARA. I understand the pain of those of you on SARA. It is hideous.

Have the C boxes gotten ANY better in the last year? If you have a C box running Navigator, how old is it? Does anyone have the new C-box Samsung DVR's at this time?

For those of you with C-boxes, if you have gotten the new Navigator update that includes the new color scheme, has this helped performance?

Jack

Have the C boxes gotten ANT better in the last year? If you have a C box running Navigator, how old is it? Does anyone have the new C-box Samsung DVR's at this time?

For those of you with C-boxes, if you have gotten the new Navigator update that includes the new color scheme, has this helped performance?

JackI have no problem with my C box. I had to return 2 boxes (months ago) to get here, but it has been reliable and responsive. Performance has never been an issue.

Performance is bit better navigating around with the 3.x ODN, though it still takes a little longer than expected to load the list of recordings. Hopping between channels seems a bit snappier.

I haven't really noticed any fixes, but I didn't have any notable recording issues that apparently others have had. Only significant feature addition I noticed so far is prioritizing one series over others.

is it me, or does the PIP on the Cs running mystro suck?

last night i was recording one show, wanted to watch a prerecorded show, while also watching a "live" baseball came.

switching back and forth was like the worst experience ever using this box. Switching would cause the screen black for about 30 seconds. then when it came back, the small pic would remain black.

its basically unusable for me.

other issues, i cant pause the show im watching and switch because it starts playing in the small screen.

when switching, it will start playing the recorded show from the beginning. switching twice again might get you back where you left off.

but again switching takes time, the tv goes black, and when it comes back, no telling where you will be at.

One size pip is annoying also. and i cant wait for new hardware that can handle 16:9 screen so the pip isnt in the middle of all the action.

no wonder i stopped using it.

Well, besides getting Navigator, my big issue is hard drive space. Are there any versions of Navigator out now that don't work with eSATA? I think TWC would have to address this. They have to know that a 160 GB drive is not nearly large enough as they add more HD.

Have the C boxes gotten ANT better in the last year? If you have a C box running Navigator, how old is it? Does anyone have the new C-box Samsung DVR's at this time?

For those of you with C-boxes, if you have gotten the new Navigator update that includes the new color scheme, has this helped performance?

Jack

I was originally 'gatored on my non-DVR Pioneer HD box. When that occurred I was totally pissed because MDN was a POS on that box. I did see incremental improvements, however, as several MDN updates were loaded to that box over the last 6 months or so that I had it.

When I swapped that box for the 8300HDC in late December, the HDC was already loaded with ODN 3.1.0_11. It was such an amazing upgrade in appearance and functionality that I am absolutely amazed at those comparisons made here saying MDN is so superior to ODN. I realize that many of those folks are still on ODN 2.x, and that my MDN experience was on the Pioneer and that those factors probably are a big part of it. All I can say is that I am a VERY critical user, I have been a degreed engineer in the CATV and AV fields for well over 30 years, and I am quite satisfied with ODN3.1 on my 8300HDC.

The only time I ever notice ANY sluggishness is when I surf across a non-authorized channel (the premium HD tier channels HDNet & MGM HD are smack in the middle of the "Free HD" channels), in which case it will stop for about 5 seconds until it decides what to do. Everything else operates with no problems, no hiccups, no glitches or errors. It is very responsive to all remote functions, graphics looks great (albeit @ 640x480, but that is a hardware limitation and just not that important to me), SDV works, On-Demand works, DVR works, guide works, PIP works, I get resonable show information, PQ is very good, no HDMI issues... everything works. Hasn't rebooted in months.

When I visit friends or family that have any other OS on their 8300 series box... whether it is MDN (which I see very little difference from my ODN other than a less attractive - but still similar - graphic scheme) or certainly when it is SARA (both TW and non-TW), I can't believe how fortunate I feel to have ODN 3.1, because the others are definitely a step backwards.

My biggest complaint is the big fugly silver monstrosity sitting on my shelf amongst my otherwise black components. My second biggest complaint is that on Passport and at least one of the MDN versions I have had, the expanded version of the banner would stay up when you surfed channels. Other versions of Navigator, including my current ODN version, will revert to the basic banner when you change channels. This does annoy me but it is hardly a serious issue.

How are SARA's New York Divisions doing with HD channel adds?

No SARA in NYC where they added 60+ new HD channels to Manhattan recently.

Central NY Division stuck with SARA (Ugggg!). However, we are at about 50 plus HD right now (not counting PPV and VOD) plus there are 14 "test" channels in the HD Tier.

No SARA in NYC where they added 60+ new HD channels to Manhattan recently.

Riverside Guy,

I see by your Siggy that you are still on Passport, with 60 HD channels! Wow! (or is that an old signature?) I thought that Passport couldn't handle those additions without an SDV upgrade through Navigator or a pre-existing SARA box. (Or TWC doing the Passport upgrade, which they refused.)

Or do you notice your division dropping a lot of other channels to add the HD ones?

Jack

Central NY Division stuck with SARA (Ugggg!). However, we are at about 50 plus HD right now (not counting PPV and VOD) plus there are 14 "test" channels in the HD Tier.

That's not a bad complement of HD channels. I thought we were doing OK with 41 "Free HD's"... with about 5 more due in April we would be just close to catching up. At least I don't have to look at SARA.

Here's what we have in Charlotte (including those to be added on 4/2)... its not a bad HD lineup at all:



Broadcast HD

201 WUNG (PBS)
220 WCNC (NBC)
225 WBTV (CBS)
230 WTVI (PBS)
235 WSOC (ABC)
238 WAXN (IND)
240 WCCB (FOX)
250 WJZY (CW)
255 WMYT (MyTV)
"Free" HD

205 ABC Family
206 Disney
207 Planet Green
208 Animal Planet
209 TLC
210 Discovery
211 USA
212 Bio
213 History
215 SciFi
216 Lifetime Movie Network
217 Bravo
218 Hallmark (April)
258 CNBC
259 CNN
260 HGTV
261 Food Network
262 SPEED
263 Fox Sports Carolinas
264 Versus
265 National Geographic
266 Science (April)
267 FX (April)
268 Travel (April)
269 Outdoor (April)
270 MLB Network
278 ESPNews
280 HD Theater
281 TNT
282 TBS
283 A&E
284 Palladia
285 ESPN
286 ESPN2
287 The Golf Channel
289 ESPNU
291 Universal (Listed as "HD Tier" but has been "free" for some time now)
My only real concern is that many of the HD channels are obviously run with extremely high compression ratios... Palladia, Universal and USA are especially bad. The the fast cut opening credits of Burn Notice on USA or Universal are a joke... and pans and quick cuts during concerts on Palladia are especially bad, particularly because the static shots look so damned good.

Well, besides getting Navigator, my big issue is hard drive space. Are there any versions of Navigator out now that don't work with eSATA? I think TWC would have to address this. They have to know that a 160 GB drive is not nearly large enough as they add more HD.

ODN 2.4.9_3 and many of the ODN 3.x.x_x fail with eSATA. xenophonite reports that ODN 3.1.0_11 works with eSATA.

One of the few good things I have heard about MDN is that most versions of MDN work with eSATA.

I can't be certain, but I doubt that the second inband tuner has much to do with IPG data loading--these boxes generally have a separate PSK tuner element for forward and return data and I think that all guide data and firmware updates come through that.
Definitely uses the second tuner on my Passport 8300HD. If you are recording one station and watching a second one, then go to the guide and go out more than the standard 2 days that are preloaded, it will blank the channel you are watching with "please wait" and when it comes back your buffer will be gone (sorry for long sentence). It has gotten me a couple times already. /Dan

ODN 2.4.9_3 and many of the ODN 3.x.x_x fail with eSATA. xenophonite reports that ODN 3.1.0_11 works with eSATA.

One of the few good things I have heard about MDN is that most versions of MDN work with eSATA.

Yeah, my recordings from 2.x also survived the 3.x upgrade - no problems whatsoever. I made a new entry in the eSATA DB.

Definitely uses the second tuner on my Passport 8300HD. If you are recording one station and watching a second one, then go to the guide and go out more than the standard 2 days that are preloaded, it will blank the channel you are watching with "please wait" and when it comes back your buffer will be gone (sorry for long sentence). It has gotten me a couple times already. /DanThat's interesting--I used Passport Echo on an 8000HD for two years and I'm absolutely certain that that was never true in any version of Passport that I used. I recall it sometimes pausing to load guide data, but not that it would destroy the buffer on either tuner when it did it.

Definitely uses the second tuner on my Passport 8300HD. If you are recording one station and watching a second one, then go to the guide and go out more than the standard 2 days that are preloaded, it will blank the channel you are watching with "please wait" and when it comes back your buffer will be gone (sorry for long sentence). It has gotten me a couple times already. /Dan

Same here. I just tried it.

I don't think it's a tuner issue however. I think it's a problem with the software programming being unable to handle that amount of information all at once. I've seen the the buffer get killed in other ways too.

Same here. I just tried it.

I don't think it's a tuner issue however. I think it's a problem with the software programming being unable to handle that amount of information all at once. I've seen the the buffer get killed in other ways too.Now that I can believe. Lousy multitasking--an inability to "walk and chew gum" at the same time. It was always inexplicable to me why it would seemingly forget the schedule once it had it downloaded. I'd force it to take in as much guide data as was available by scrolling through the guide and waiting through the pauses, after which, for a while, I'd be able to scroll through it all instantly. By the next day, it wouldn't have more than the next two days worth of data, causing me to have to wait through "loading" pauses again if I wanted to see anything past that.

TiVo loads guide data through either a built-in phone modem or, preferably, over the network, wired or through an USB 11G adapter. It downloads guide updates automatically on a daily basis, and processes the data in the background, while continously buffering both tuners and anything else you might be doing with it. Of course, it's mounted on some embedded Unix variant--I have no idea how difficult that kind of concurrency is to acheive in Cisco/SA's "Power TV" RTOS.

TiVo loads guide data through either a built-in phone modem or, preferably, over the network, wired or through an USB 11G adapter. It downloads guide updates automatically on a daily basis, and processes the data in the background

it is pretty ridiculous that in 2009 the guide cannot populate it's schedule without a prompt from the user. How hard would it be to automatically just dial in and retrieve new information just once per day?

Riverside Guy,

I see by your Siggy that you are still on Passport, with 60 HD channels! Wow! (or is that an old signature?) I thought that Passport couldn't handle those additions without an SDV upgrade through Navigator or a pre-existing SARA box. (Or TWC doing the Passport upgrade, which they refused.)

Or do you notice your division dropping a lot of other channels to add the HD ones?

Jack

Jack, da sig be accurate! NYC overall supposedly has the biggest bandwidth in the country (along with LA I think). We had 70+ analog channels, so all they had to do was drop about 40 of them and bingo, room for HD!

That's interesting--I used Passport Echo on an 8000HD for two years and I'm absolutely certain that that was never true in any version of Passport that I used. I recall it sometimes pausing to load guide data, but not that it would destroy the buffer on either tuner when it did it.

Which once again demonstrates that even with supposedly same version hardware/software, things be way different from division to division. Every version of Passport I've had (including the current one) will "blank" one tuner during a forced guide update if a recording is going on via the other tuner.

it is pretty ridiculous that in 2009 the guide cannot populate it's schedule without a prompt from the user. How hard would it be to automatically just dial in and retrieve new information just once per day?

ODN either stores the whole guide in the larger memory guaranteed by the OCAP versions of the 8300HDC, or writes the whole guide to the hard drive to load it quickly as needed. Even though ODN is slower in many regards to MDN, ODN is super-speedy on shifting days beyond tomorrow compared to MDN because it never loads off of the network except when an update is pushed (whose latency is hidden as a background activity) or if the box is booting.

MDN doesn't do this. My guess is that it probably uses the same code for the very limited an obsolete Explorer 2xxx series as the high-end Explorer 8xxx series in order to make the code fit within the RAM and ROM confines of the Explorer 2xxx series.

I think that a smartly-programmed MDN should see if there is a hard drive, and then write the whole guide to it whenever the guide updates. Therefore, if it needs to load, it would load off the hard drive. It would use the current lethargic but memory-saving code if there is no hard drive.

You know what makes me laugh ...our division really thinks we are content with sara . How hard is it to actually update the receivers ? I think we should be given the choice of guide we want i know i would be willing to pay extra for it ...with time warner not even an option . It's been around how long now we don't even get mention of it unless we bring it up ourselves in email or over the phone.i have become increasingly sick of sara for some many reasons i can't count! Not to mention it's growing ever so close to that march 5 th deadline and we still have nothing ! :mad:

You know what makes me laugh ...our division really thinks we are content with sara . How hard is it to actually update the receivers ? I think we should be given the choice of guide we want i know i would be willing to pay extra for it ...with time warner not even an option . It's been around how long now we don't even get mention of it unless we bring it up ourselves in email or over the phone.i have become increasingly sick of sara for some many reasons i can't count! Not to mention it's growing ever so close to that march 5 th deadline and we still have nothing ! :mad:

Brother I am with you. Time Warner could at least let us SARA users know what is going on with NAVIGATOR. They have until April 15 with me.. Everytime I E mail them I get a formula canned reply. How stupid do they think we are.

Brother I am with you. Time Warner could at least let us SARA users know what is going on with NAVIGATOR. They have until April 15 with me.. Everytime I E mail them I get a formula canned reply. How stupid do they think we are.

April 15? I think that they will be busy filing their taxes instead of worrying about the program guide at that time :p .

that's funny! :) i think time warner gets a tax refund everyday from it's customers!;)hi....were time warner home of where everyday is a tax day! "the power of (not providing) you ! "

You know what makes me laugh ...our division really thinks we are content with sara . How hard is it to actually update the receivers ? I think we should be given the choice of guide we want i know i would be willing to pay extra for it ...with time warner not even an option . It's been around how long now we don't even get mention of it unless we bring it up ourselves in email or over the phone.i have become increasingly sick of sara for some many reasons i can't count! Not to mention it's growing ever so close to that march 5 th deadline and we still have nothing ! :mad:

So for SARA users,

What is supposed to (not) happen on March 5th?

Jack

So for SARA users,

What is supposed to (not) happen on March 5th?

Jack

The update to the new color scheme for ODN will NOT be downloaded!! :p:p:p

Me, I think they're all crazy!!! If the came over to see my ODN box, they'd be kissing their SARA boxes!!!! The ODN version(in my signature) is unfit for use. The days do not change faster. It still has to load data more than two days out. It's slow and clunky and gets stuck.

I'm a bit of a newb... stumbled upon this awesome forum looking for the 15 minute skip functionality, which I got 2 pages ago... thanks! I wanted to ask something from all you experts out there because all the back and fourth about SARA and Nav confused me a bit. I am in Brooklyn (Brooklyn Heights, 11201), and my diagnostics screen reads Bootstrapper version 3.0.0_15, Network version 2.4.10_11

1. I'm running sara, right? (Mystro, that appears when I reboot, I'm guessing is some sort of wrapper)
2. If I trade my box in, do I have any shot of getting ODN 3.1? (speed and series priority would be nice additions)
3. If I'm on sara that means everyone in my area is, and Navigator won't come on any box I trade in for, right?
4. Is there any way I can get a DOCSIS 3.0 modem to increase my bandwidth? (by trading my current one in, or buying one, whatever)

The update to the new color scheme for ODN will NOT be downloaded!! :p:p:p

Me, I think they're all crazy!!! If the came over to see my ODN box, they'd be kissing their SARA boxes!!!! The ODN version(in my signature) is unfit for use. The days do not change faster. It still has to load data more than two days out. It's slow and clunky and gets stuck.

I will agree with you on the slow and clunky part and the occasional part about it getting stuck for a few seconds, but will disagree about having to load data more than two days out. Based on what you are saying, my guess is that ODN will automatically cache the guide data to the hard drive if one is present and load it from there as needed. Passport manually cached that data as it was loaded by the user, but did not cache such data automatically. When I used MDN (whose closed captioning bugs at the time made it ultimately useless in my house due to a non-native English speaker needing closed captioning), it had to load data from more than two days out even though there was a hard drive. I use the same version of ODN as you, ODN 2.4.10_11.

I'm a bit of a newb... stumbled upon this awesome forum looking for the 15 minute skip functionality, which I got 2 pages ago... thanks! I wanted to ask something from all you experts out there because all the back and fourth about SARA and Nav confused me a bit. I am in Brooklyn (Brooklyn Heights, 11201), and my diagnostics screen reads Bootstrapper version 3.0.0_15, Network version 2.4.10_11

1. I'm running sara, right? (Mystro, that appears when I reboot, I'm guessing is some sort of wrapper)
2. If I trade my box in, do I have any shot of getting ODN 3.1? (speed and series priority would be nice additions)
3. If I'm on sara that means everyone in my area is, and Navigator won't come on any box I trade in for, right?
4. Is there any way I can get a DOCSIS 3.0 modem to increase my bandwidth? (by trading my current one in, or buying one, whatever)

1. You are running some version of Navigator. Mystro is Navigator's code name.
2. I am not from your area, so I do not know.
3. You are running Navigator, so this question does not apply.
4. The version of DOCSIS that you are running is determined by the lower of the two of these: the highest version of DOCSIS that your modem supports and the highest version of DOCSIS that the head end supports. Since your area's support page does not list any DOCSIS 3.0 modems, getting a DOCSIS 3.0 modem might get you a faster processor, but that is it. The highest DOCSIS version your area's support page lists in all of the modems is DOCSIS 2.0, and it also lists several DOCSIS 1.0 and 1.1 modems. Therefore, the best DOCSIS you could possibly get is DOCSIS 2.0.

4. Is there any way I can get a DOCSIS 3.0 modem to increase my bandwidth? (by trading my current one in, or buying one, whatever)Are you not getting the speed that you ordered? If so, getting a new modem's not going to increase it, even if and when your network does support DOCSIS 3.0--your provider controls your maximum data speed, regardless of the modem's capability. If you're not getting the speed that you ordered on a modem that you leased from them, you need to complain and get them out to fix that. If you order a higher speed and the modem that you're currently leasing isn't good enough for it, they should tell you and ask you to trade it in (that happened to me, when I upgraded).

If you TRULY have the "Need For Speed", ask for the SMB expert
(Small and Medium Business). Someone in town will sell you any data rate
your pocketbook can handle, including a fraction of a BPON/GPON fibre:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_device_bandwidths

If you're just complaining about slow websurfing or video downloading, faster
cable modem isn't the solution....it's "WEB overload" and intentional bit throttling...

Thanks for the answers... question 4 was really just for kicks... I get 20mb pinging the local node with speedtest.net anyways (and apparently 8mb pinging the middle of siberia, lol), so I'm fine with what I have. I'm glad to hear I have Navigator, but still on odn 2.4.10_11. I'm gonna head to 23rd st next week and swap it out for an odn 3.1 (unless by some miracle they have the Samsung SMT-H3090 or the holy of holys, the SA8550HDC)

I found the "other" ODN diagnostics screen using the vol +/- and ch^ buttons. It is 16 pages long and I found a screen called "XAIT INFORMATION". On this screen I saw the following entries.

034_627A_TWC_ODN_3_1_0_11
034_622B_TWC_ODN_2_4_10_11

They were the last two on the list in that order. 2_4_10_11 is the same as the current ODN version I get from the regular diagnostic screen: 2.4.10_11. But what is 3_1_0_11? Is that supposed to be the "new" version of ODN everyone is talking about? Why would it be listed on my screen?

Also, there are entries for:

0034_402B_TWC_NETWORK_2_4_10_11
0034_4076_TWC_NETWORK_3_1_0_7

and

0034_6176_TWC_MONITOR_3_1_0_11
0034_612B_TWC_MONITOR_2_4_10_11

I wonder why there are listings about ODN 2 and 3, when this box clearly appears to be running the older 2.4.10_11 version of ODN(with the blue guide)?

Also I came across this on the same screen, page 7 XAIT INFORMATION.

It's called SARA to ODN. The thing is, the system I am on has never had SARA. We used to be Passport. OCAP boxes have always had ODN and Passport boxes were switched to MDN last year. I have heard specualtion that a switch from SARA to NAVIGATOR is "impossible". But seeing that, it seems it is in fact possible.

Would this have something to do with TWC downloading the new software before distributing the boxes?

0034_4303_TWC_SARA_TO_ODN_1_0_4

I'm glad to hear I have Navigator, but still on odn 2.4.10_11. I'm gonna head to 23rd st next week and swap it out for an odn 3.1 (unless by some miracle they have the Samsung SMT-H3090 or the holy of holys, the SA8550HDC)It doesn't quite work that way. The version level you have is regional. You will automatically get odn 3.1 when your TWC region decides to upgrade. So swapping boxes will do you no good; you're still going to have 2.4.10_11.

Ok, I am a total newb with this crap... I am in downtown Manhattan (20th street) and was trying to see why I have no Movies on Demand HD, and found this thread which is way over my head. I have a 2 year old SA 8300HD and I opened the diagnostics and it says Passport Echo 2.6.002 .. should I go change this at the 23rd street service center or am I going to end up with a worse box or software?

Ok, I am a total newb with this crap... I am in downtown Manhattan (20th street) and was trying to see why I have no Movies on Demand HD, and found this thread which is way over my head. I have a 2 year old SA 8300HD and I opened the diagnostics and it says Passport Echo 2.6.002 .. should I go change this at the 23rd street service center or am I going to end up with a worse box or software?

First off, if you have an 8300HD, DO NOT CHANGE IT. The new box you'll get will be awful. 8300HDC is bad, especially with ODN(which your area has becuase you have a Passport box).

To fix the VOD problem, try rebooting the box. Sometimes resetting it fixes the problem.

I found the "other" ODN diagnostics screen using the vol +/- and ch^ buttons. It is 16 pages long and I found a screen called "XAIT INFORMATION". On this screen I saw the following entries.

034_627A_TWC_ODN_3_1_0_11
034_622B_TWC_ODN_2_4_10_11

They were the last two on the list in that order. 2_4_10_11 is the same as the current ODN version I get from the regular diagnostic screen: 2.4.10_11. But what is 3_1_0_11? Is that supposed to be the "new" version of ODN everyone is talking about? Why would it be listed on my screen?

Also, there are entries for:

0034_402B_TWC_NETWORK_2_4_10_11
0034_4076_TWC_NETWORK_3_1_0_7

and

0034_6176_TWC_MONITOR_3_1_0_11
0034_612B_TWC_MONITOR_2_4_10_11

I wonder why there are listings about ODN 2 and 3, when this box clearly appears to be running the older 2.4.10_11 version of ODN(with the blue guide)?

Also I came across this on the same screen, page 7 XAIT INFORMATION.

It's called SARA to ODN. The thing is, the system I am on has never had SARA. We used to be Passport. OCAP boxes have always had ODN and Passport boxes were switched to MDN last year. I have heard specualtion that a switch from SARA to NAVIGATOR is "impossible". But seeing that, it seems it is in fact possible.

Would this have something to do with TWC downloading the new software before distributing the boxes?

0034_4303_TWC_SARA_TO_ODN_1_0_4

Looks like your division of Time Warner Cable is gearing up for the ODN 3.1.0_11 upgrade. TWC apparently likes to upgrade boxes a few at a time so that if some boxes get bricked during the update, that there will not be a huge line that could become a riot at the local TWC office, but a small line that would drain relatively quickly.

My advice is to make sure all of your connections are tight, and to check to make sure the signal and noise levels are within acceptable ranges.

Also, I have noticed that the CableCARD in my 8300HDC seems to crash from time to time when I am in certain parts of the AXIOM diagnostics that you just accessed, taking ODN with it. Sometimes accessing the AXIOM diagnostics would cause ODN to crash some time later after you leave them. Therefore, I would recommend rebooting your box ASAP after accessing the AXIOM diagnostics.

Looks like your division of Time Warner Cable is gearing up for the ODN 3.1.0_11 upgrade. TWC apparently likes to upgrade boxes a few at a time so that if some boxes get bricked during the update, that there will not be a huge line that could become a riot at the local TWC office, but a small line that would drain relatively quickly.

That's good news. I figured that if the screen was saying something about ODN 3.1.10, that has to mean something is somewhere in the system about that. When we got MDN, I think they did one box model a week. And it was different days. The Pioneer box I had was hit on Tuesday early morning. The 8300HD was hit on early Monday morning. Then I had the MDN update on early Thursday morning.

And it's true about being bricked. My HD DVR didn't work after the original MDN transition. I had to call TWC and they even said that was a common problem with those boxes. When they D/L the software, the boxes forgot it was a DVR and didn't load the DVR functions.

My advice is to make sure all of your connections are tight, and to check to make sure the signal and noise levels are within acceptable ranges.

Connections are OK, haven't had any "signal" type problems: missing channels, breaking up picture. S/N usually says 33-35dB.

Also, I have noticed that the CableCARD in my 8300HDC seems to crash from time to time when I am in certain parts of the AXIOM diagnostics that you just accessed, taking ODN with it. Sometimes accessing the AXIOM diagnostics would cause ODN to crash some time later after you leave them. Therefore, I would recommend rebooting your box ASAP after accessing the AXIOM diagnostics.

My case is on a 4250HDC. And I did reboot after this. Mostly hoping that the update was "here" and a reboot would push it along. No such luck. :( I know there's no way to FORCE these boxes to update without the head end doing something, but hopeful me thought maybe something was out there. Back to wating, patiently(yeah right!). :mad:

First off, if you have an 8300HD, DO NOT CHANGE IT. The new box you'll get will be awful. 8300HDC is bad, especially with ODN(which your area has becuase you have a Passport box).

To fix the VOD problem, try rebooting the box. Sometimes resetting it fixes the problem.

No rebooting doesn't fix anything, I do not have channel 699 or 700 at all, which I believe is the VOD - HD... I have regular VOD just not the channel that has the HD movies.

First off, if you have an 8300HD, DO NOT CHANGE IT. The new box you'll get will be awful. 8300HDC is bad, especially with ODN(which your area has becuase you have a Passport box).

To fix the VOD problem, try rebooting the box. Sometimes resetting it fixes the problem.I realize you've had bad luck with your HDC box, but if you've been paying attention to this thread, you'd realize that your problems are atypical and there are many who are very happy with theirs. I know you are just trying to be helpful, but telling people to avoid an HDC box is not necessarily doing the readers of this thread a service.

Looks like your division of Time Warner Cable is gearing up for the ODN 3.1.0_11 upgrade. TWC apparently likes to upgrade boxes a few at a time so that if some boxes get bricked during the update, that there will not be a huge line that could become a riot at the local TWC office, but a small line that would drain relatively quickly.

My advice is to make sure all of your connections are tight, and to check to make sure the signal and noise levels are within acceptable ranges.

Also, I have noticed that the CableCARD in my 8300HDC seems to crash from time to time when I am in certain parts of the AXIOM diagnostics that you just accessed, taking ODN with it. Sometimes accessing the AXIOM diagnostics would cause ODN to crash some time later after you leave them. Therefore, I would recommend rebooting your box ASAP after accessing the AXIOM diagnostics.

I haven't checked lately, but my XAIT info screen used to say 2.4.10_11, but I was told our area was skipping that upgrade and going straight to ODN 3.x.something.

Not that anyone can trust what customer service says... :p

I realize you've had bad luck with your HDC box, but if you've been paying attention to this thread, you'd realize that your problems are atypical and there are many who are very happy with theirs. I know you are just trying to be helpful, but telling people to avoid an HDC box is not necessarily doing the readers of this thread a service.I think that's a personal opinion. You seem to be one of only a couple of people I've heard whose been happy with the performance of ODN on his or her 8300HDC.

I think that's a personal opinion. You seem to be one of only a couple of people I've heard whose been happy with the performance of ODN on his or her 8300HDC.

Exactly. I know there's always a few *ahem* who like to play devil's advocate and defend the 8300HDC. For the most part, its performance is terrible, ESPECIALLY if you're coming to it from a Passport box. It's like going from Tivo to VHS, except VHS is more reliable than the HDC.

My advice to this guy would be to try EVERYTHING other than replacing it. Call customer service. Find out why the channels are not there. TWC could have "forgot" to add them if they're running multiple operating systems. If the VOD channels do not properly work, have a tech come out. Check signal levels, check wiring and connections. I'd rather have a new line run from the street, a new drop and new inside wiring before I give up an 8300HD.

Unfortunately, as newb as I am the customer service reps are even more clueless. They said "Oh, you don't have an HD box." My guess is that my old box doesn't support the VOD - HD or Start Over. Based on what you all are saying, I will hold off on changing my box until better ones eventually come. I only rent movies once per month, I can just go to the Blockbuster downstairs and get a blu ray. Not gonna mess up my daily viewing to have a movie once per month.

Unfortunately, as newb as I am the customer service reps are even more clueless. They said "Oh, you don't have an HD box." My guess is that my old box doesn't support the VOD - HD or Start Over. Based on what you all are saying, I will hold off on changing my box until better ones eventually come. I only rent movies once per month, I can just go to the Blockbuster downstairs and get a blu ray. Not gonna mess up my daily viewing to have a movie once per month.

I don't see why those channels are not on. I had Passport with HD for two years, and there was VOD in HD. But it is true that StartOver wouldn't work, it can't be added on to Passport. I've never seen StartOver, but I can guarantee I wouldn't ditch an otherwise working Passport box just for that feature.

Those service reps are clueless if they say you don't have an HD box. When I called just to add channels, they were able to ask me if it worked on each box---and they actually told me the model numbers of the box. SHe said to check the 8300 and the 4250. They knew that on the phone!

I think that's a personal opinion. You seem to be one of only a couple of people I've heard whose been happy with the performance of ODN on his or her 8300HDC.

I think there are different things to be happy about. I've never used ODN on any box besides the 8300HDC, but I think more issue goes to the software than the hardware itself. I may be wrong, and I don't like ODN on the 8300HDC, but once ODN matures it should be clear what is actually the root of the problems- the hardware or the software.

I think there are different things to be happy about. I've never used ODN on any box besides the 8300HDC, but I think more issue goes to the software than the hardware itself. I may be wrong, and I don't like ODN on the 8300HDC, but once ODN matures it should be clear what is actually the root of the problems- the hardware or the software.

I'll have to wait until the update comes for ODN before I change my opinions on it. Right now with 2.4.10_11, it sucks. I assume that 2.4.9_3 is about the same, but a generation back. If ODN 3.xx is anything like the current version of MDN: in appearance, speed and stability, I may start liking ODN.

Most of all, I hate the appearance. I hate the fugly, oversized channel banner. I hate the intense blue menus. I hate the ugly, hard to read font. The good thing is they fixed these issues for MDN. There's a normal sized banner, better color scheme and the font appears darker and more bold, so it is easier to read.

As far as stability, I say it's gotta be the software. When I had an OCAP DVR in late 2007, it was hideous. Full of bugs, missing recordings, not booting right, getting stuck all the time. Happy to dump that box for another Passport one. When I heard Navigator was coming for Passport boxes, I was pissed. I wanted to cancel. But once MDN came, it was nothing like the older ODN. The things I mentioned above were fixed, it was stable and almost bug free. So they can make a version that works. I just hope this new ODN will be as good.

I think there are different things to be happy about. I've never used ODN on any box besides the 8300HDC, but I think more issue goes to the software than the hardware itself. I may be wrong, and I don't like ODN on the 8300HDC, but once ODN matures it should be clear what is actually the root of the problems- the hardware or the software.

From my (quite good) experience with ODN 3.1 on my 8300HDC, I would say that the problems lie with the older versions of ODN, not the hardware itself. Folks like Nickdawg have every right to bitch and moan... but it should be directed at their local TW division for keeping a better version of ODN from them. Perhaps the local governmental authority that oversees TW needs to be made aware that TW already has a fix for many of their problems but is witholding it from their constituents. Either way, it is not fair to knock the HDC's or ODN without qualifying it with an ODN version number.

Most of all, I hate the appearance. I hate the fugly, oversized channel banner. I hate the intense blue menus. I hate the ugly, hard to read font. The good thing is they fixed these issues for MDN. There's a normal sized banner, better color scheme and the font appears darker and more bold, so it is easier to read.

ODN 3.1.0_11 and whatever version of MDN they are running here in Charlotte look and behave virtually identically.

From my (quite good) experience with ODN 3.1 on my 8300HDC, I would say that the problems lie with the older versions of ODN, not the hardware itself. Folks like Nickdawg have every right to bitch and moan... but it should be directed at their local TW division for keeping a better version of ODN from them. Perhaps the local governmental authority that oversees TW needs to be made aware that TW already has a fix for many of their problems but is witholding it from their constituents. Either way, it is not fair to knock the HDC's or ODN without qualifying it with an ODN version number.

Yes, and 2.4.9_3 is awful. I hate it. It doesn't even miss that many recordings, but waiting five seconds between HDMI res switch is nuts, and the fact that I can't lock on a resolution drives me even more insane. I'm even willing to give Bright House some slack and let them catch up to TW, but making us run a version that is more than a year old is insane (not to mention unfair).

I don't think that any part of the hardware is to blame other than the speed of its CPUs. ODN on the 8300HDC seems to do what it was designed to do, just torturously slow. I've observed this on 3 different boxes in various locations locally, all of them running the latest ODN rev.

it is not fair to knock the HDC's or ODN without qualifying it with an ODN version number.

It is when you have 2.4.10_11. ;)

It is when you have 2.4.10_11. ;)
My point exactly, lol.

It is when you have 2.4.10_11. ;)It would lead one to believe your problems are not software since I've been on the same release for quite some time with no problems. Wonder whats different between our two systems.

It would lead one to believe your problems are not software since I've been on the same release for quite some time with no problems. Wonder whats different between our two systems.

Is the 8300HDC the only box you have? Since I have a non-C box with MDN and a C box with ODN, I have a direct, in house comparison of the two. When you see my current ODN side by side with my current MDN, the difference is shocking.

If you've had ODN for awhile, I have no doubt it has improved since its first release. 2.4.10_11 has to be an "updated" version, since someone here has mentioned the older verison. If you have had an older worse verison upgraded to a newer, not so bad version, I can see how you think it does not have as many problems. But once you compare it to MDN, it's night and day.

The good news is that the ODN 3.xx is supposed to be similar to MDN. I'm hoping that gets downloaded soon. When you get that update, you'll see what I am talking about.

Is the 8300HDC the only box you have? Since I have a non-C box with MDN and a C box with ODN, I have a direct, in house comparison of the two. When you see my current ODN side by side with my current MDN, the difference is shocking.

If you've had ODN for awhile, I have no doubt it has improved since its first release. 2.4.10_11 has to be an "updated" version, since someone here has mentioned the older verison. If you have had an older worse verison upgraded to a newer, not so bad version, I can see how you think it does not have as many problems. But once you compare it to MDN, it's night and day.

The good news is that the ODN 3.xx is supposed to be similar to MDN. I'm hoping that gets downloaded soon. When you get that update, you'll see what I am talking about.

I also hope that we get ODN 3 ASAP. Every time I turn my box on, I feel like crying that I put my TV through that. OK, maybe not, but it's still painfully bad.

I saw that something (wasn't happening) on March 5th.

Eventually, my fingers will get to a point where I can't uncross them.

So I guess the big litmus test for OCAP boxes is going to be if (and how much) speed and reliability improves once the new Navigator color scheme is downloaded to them. I did hear in Milwaukee that they have started the downloads of the new Navigator updated guide to the OCAP C-boxes. From what I heard, the newer C boxes with the newer IPG Navigator are better than the old blue on blue on blue version of Navigator that most OCAP boxes still have.

I agree with Nick that I would never trade my MDN box for an OCAP box, because I have heard more horror stories about OCAP running Navigator than MDN with Navigator. MDN's Navigator if your box has been good with Passport should be fine with a downloaded version. I would not get a C-box until forced to do so. Since the MDN upgrade on my SA-8300 speed and reliability with Navigator is very good and I have missed no recordings. The only glitch is CC doesn't work, but it never worked for me on Passport. From what I have read the ONLY thing that that OCAP does better than MDN is have more reliable CC. BUT I also have to say that all of this info was before OCAP's started changing to the updated color scheme. And that update fixes a lot more bugs so it appears than just an improved color scheme.

Than later this year, TWC has the Samsung DVR's coming out. Who knows how that will play out from division to division?

Jack

I'll have to wait until the update comes for ODN before I change my opinions on it. Right now with 2.4.10_11, it sucks. I assume that 2.4.9_3 is about the same, but a generation back. If ODN 3.xx is anything like the current version of MDN: in appearance, speed and stability, I may start liking ODN.

Most of all, I hate the appearance. I hate the fugly, oversized channel banner. I hate the intense blue menus. I hate the ugly, hard to read font. The good thing is they fixed these issues for MDN. There's a normal sized banner, better color scheme and the font appears darker and more bold, so it is easier to read.

As far as stability, I say it's gotta be the software. When I had an OCAP DVR in late 2007, it was hideous. Full of bugs, missing recordings, not booting right, getting stuck all the time. Happy to dump that box for another Passport one. When I heard Navigator was coming for Passport boxes, I was pissed. I wanted to cancel. But once MDN came, it was nothing like the older ODN. The things I mentioned above were fixed, it was stable and almost bug free. So they can make a version that works. I just hope this new ODN will be as good.

You are wrong about ODN 2.4.9_3 being a generation behind. It was more like many bug fixes behind. Sure, it was stable with closed captioning, but it crashed with HDMI and/or eSATA drives. I was advising people to choose what was more important: stable closed captioning with ODN, or bug-free HDMI and eSATA with MDN. Due to my mother's needs and my TV's lack of an HDMI port (it only takes component video), stable closed captioning trumped everything else. I was glad to be rid of MDN 2.4.1-92 when I got my first ODN box because combining closed captioning, DVR, and HDTV would crash MDN 2.4.1-92. ODN 2.4.10_11 fixed the HDMI and eSATA bugs resulting in a stable box if you took good care of your box and made it easy to cool itself. I was even gladder that I got rid of MDN when I found out that MDN 2.4.1-107, which was deployed before the Olympics, would crash during the Olympics or a football game because the program was too long for MDN 2.4.1-107 to handle without crashing.

My guess as to why ODN 3.1.0_11 is not being deployed everywhere is because earlier versions of 3.x.x_x killed eSATA, making its users want to beg for 2.4.10_11. The more conservative managers probably want to wait and see if this version fixes the eSATA bug.

By the way, does your version of MDN still have those time-wasting transitions when you leave the guide, and if so, is there a way to turn them off? They were a major time-waster that sometimes made ODN feel faster than MDN because ODN just snapped out of a menu or program guide instead of making the menu or program guide fade to black before restoring the screen like what MDN 2.4.1-92 did. If so, I hope this misfeature was not ported to ODN 3.1.0_11.

I hope this misfeature was not ported to ODN 3.1.0_11.


Nothing like that on ODN 3.1.0_11

If you've had ODN for awhile, I have no doubt it has improved since its first release. 2.4.10_11 has to be an "updated" version, since someone here has mentioned the older verison. If you have had an older worse verison upgraded to a newer, not so bad version, I can see how you think it does not have as many problems. But once you compare it to MDN, it's night and day.I've been using a DVR (ReplayTV) since 2000 and I use it and the 8300HDC quite a lot. ReplayTV is arguably a better standard for comparison than MDN. You keep generally referring to all your system's problems. Perhaps you could be more specific and I'll see if I have the same ones. Then we can distinguish between a difference in performance and a difference in personal tolerance.

Time Warner Cable’s agreements with programmers to carry their services routinely expire from time to time. We are usually able to obtain renewals or extensions of such agreements, and carriage of programming services is discontinued only in rare circumstances. The following agreements with programmers are due to expire soon, and we may be required to cease carriage of one or more of these services in the near future:

BBC America On Demand
DIY On Demand/Fine Living On Demand/
Food Network On Demand/HGTV On Demand
E!
Fox Sports, Pittsburgh (where available)
GAC- Great American Country
Game Show Network
HD Net/HD Net Movies
The Outdoor Channel
Palladia (formerly MHD)
Shop NBC
Style
NBA TV
Turner Free on Demand (Cartoon Network on Demand, TBS on Demand, TNT on Demand, truTV on Demand, CNN on Demand, TCM on Demand and Adult Swim on Demand)
The Weather Channel
WSYR*
WSTM*
WSTQ*
WIVT*
WBNG*
WBPN*
WICZ*
WKBW*
WKTV*
WTVH*
WOLF*
WTVH*
WIVB*
WNLO*
WENY*
WRGB*
WGRZ*
WNEP*
WISF*
WBXI*
WGMU*
WWTI*
WBE*
WHEC*
WBGH*
WPIX*
WETM*
WISF*
WNEP*
WUHF*
WROC*
WXXI*
WHAM*
WIVT*
WNYO*
WENY*
WJKP*
WSWB*
WBE*
WFFF*
WVNY*
WWTI*
WWTI-DT2, CW*

*where local broadcaster offered/analog & digital where applicable.


The following networks may be added, deleted or relocated, within some viewing areas:
WBPN, WCNY, WENY-DT, WENY HD, WETM HD/D, WGRZ, WHAM HD/D, WHEC HD, WIVB HD, WJKP, WKTV HD, WNLO, WQLN HD/D, WQMY, WROC HD, WSEE, WSKG D/HD, WUHF HD, WVIA HD/D, WUTV HD/D, WXXI HD/D, WCNY D/HD, WUTR HD, HSN, Shop NBC, ION, CSPAN, CSPAN2, Disney Ch, RNews, News 10 Now, TWSports Net Buffalo

We are adding these HD channels by 3/3/09: Fox News HD (ch. 823), CNBC HD (ch. 835) , USA HD (845), Sci-Fi HD (ch. 846) , fX HD (847).

Customers subscribing to Digital Explorer Pak will also receive: MLB Network (ch. 807), Fox Business Network HD (834), Speed HD (ch. 846). AN HD Capable digital converter/TV set is required to view these channels.

We will be adding the following channels to our option Digital Sports Tier on March 18, 2009: Big Ten Network, Big Ten On Demand, Big 10 Network HD, Gol TV, and the Sportsman Channel. In additional, Sports Tier customers will also begin to receive CBS College Sports in HD on ch. 815.

We will be adding a new On Demand channel featuring shows from popular networks, "Primetime On Demand beginning 2/18/09.

National Geographic On Demand will move to our "News and World" on demand portal on 3/5/09.
We will be adding Starz On Demand by 3/16/09. You must subscribe to Starz to receive the On Demand service.

The new services listed here cannot be accessed on CableCard-equipped Unidirectional Digital Cable Products purchased at retail without additional, two-way capable equipment: Big Ten Network (SD, HD, On Demand), Gol TV, The Sportsman Channel, CBS College Sports HD, MLB Network HD, Fox Business HD, Speed HD, Fox News HD, CNBC HD, USA HD, Sci-Fi HD, fX HD, Starz On Demand, Primetime On Demand.

We are currently involved in discussions regarding the services and/or stations listed below. While we cannot guarantee that we will reach agreement with the relevant programmers and/or broadcasters, we are listing these services/stations here in the event that we are able to start carrying them in the future: WKTV - HD

In preparation for the upcoming Digital Television transistion on 6/12/09, the following list includes those broadcaster station(s) for which High Definition and/or Digital channels will be added on or by 6/12/09, or following an agreement and witht he permission of the broadcast station owner:

CORTLAND: WSPX(HD), WSTQ(DT), WSKG(HD), WBNG(HD), WICZ(HD), WIVT (HD)
SYRACUSE/AUBURN: WSPX (HD), WSTQ (DT)
OSWEGO(Mapleview): WSPX(HD), WSTQ(DT)
ITHACA: WSKG(HD), WICZ(HD), WIVT(HD) and WENY(SD/HD);in Candor, add WBNG-DT(CW Network)
ROME: WKTV(HD), WUTR(HD), WFXV(HD), WSPX(HD), WSTQ (DT)
UTICA/ILION: WBU(DT), WPNY(DT), WKTV(HD/DT)
WATERTOWN: WBWT(DT),
POTSDAM: WCFE (DT)
MALONE: WFFF(HD&DT),WVNY(HD),WNPI(HD)
CHAMPLAIN: WETK (HD)
SARANAC LAKE: WFFF (HD&DT), WVNY(HD), WGMU(DT), WPIX(DT)

virtually says the same thing:


LEGAL NOTICE Time Warner Cables agreements with pr
Date Posted: Monday, February 16, 2009
Legal Ad URL: http://www.ncbizconnect.com/legals/102331
Location: United States, New York, Plattsburgh
LEGAL NOTICE Time Warner Cables agreements with programmers and broadcasters to carry their services and stations routinely expire from time to time.

We are usually able to obtain renewals or extensions of such agreements, but in order to comply with applicable regulations, we must inform you when an agreement is about to expire. The following agreements are due to expire soon, and we may be required to cease carriage of one or more of these services/stations in the near future.

WFFF (where offered) WGMU (plus DT, where offered) WSTM (where offered, plus DT and HD) WVNY (plus DT, where offered) WWTI (where offered, plus WWTI-DT2, CW) BBC America on Demand DIY On Demand / Fine Living On Demand / Food Network On Demand / HGTV On Demand E! Game Show Network Great American Country HD Net and HD Net Movies NBA TV The Outdoor Channel Shop NBC Sportsman Channel Style Turner Free on Demand (Cartoon Network, TBS, TNT, TRU TV, CNN, TCM and Adult Swim on demand services) The Weather Channel In addition, from time to time we make certain changes in the services that we offer in order to better serve our customers. The following changes are planned: We are adding these HD channels: Fox News HD (channel 823); CNBC HD (ch. 835); USA HD (ch. 845); Sci-Fi HD (ch. 846) and FX HD (ch. 847).

Customers subscribing to the Digital Explorer Pak will also receive: MLB Network HD (ch. 807); Fox Business HD (ch. 834) and Speed HD (ch. 849).

An HD-capable Digital Cable converter/TV set is required to view these channels.

We will be adding the following channels to our optional Digital Sports Tier on March 10: Big Ten Network (channel 245), Big Ten on Demand (ch. 246) and Big Ten HD (ch. 814), Gol TV (ch. 248) and the Sportsman Channel (ch. 247).

In addition, Sports Tier customers will also begin to receive CBS College Sports in HD on channel 815.

We will be adding a new On Demand channel featuring shows from popular networks, "Primetime on Demand," on channels 554 and 860 beginning February 18.

National Geographic On Demand will move to our News and World on-demand portal, Channel 573, on March 5, 2009.

We will be adding Starz on Demand on channel 359 by March 16, 2009.

We will be adding Shalom TV on Demand on channel 195 by March 16, 2009.

The new services listed here cannot be accessed on CableCARD-equipped Unidirectional Digital Cable Products purchased at retail without additional, two-way capable equipment: Big Ten Network (SD, HD and On Demand), Gol TV, Sportsman Channel, CBS College Sports HD, MLB Network HD, Fox Business HD, Speed HD, Fox News HD, CNBC HD, USA HD, Sci-Fi HD, FX HD, Starz on Demand, Shalom TV on Demand; Primetime on Demand.

In preparation for the upcoming Digital Television transition, the following list includes those local broadcast station(s) for which High-Definition and/or Digital channels will be added on or by 6/12/2009, or following an agreement and with the permission of the broadcast station owner.

WATERTOWN: WBWT (DT) POTSDAM: WCFE (DT) MALONE: WFFF (HD and DT), WVNY (HD), WNPI (HD) CHAMPLAIN: WETK (HD) SARANAC LAKE: WFFF (HD and DT), WVNY (HD), WGMU (DT), WPIX (DT) You may downgrade or terminate service without charge at any time. Further, if carriage of a premium channel is discontinued and you have incurred installation, upgrade or other one-time charges relating to such premium service within six months prior to the date of the change, you may elect to downgrade or terminate service within 30 days and obtain a rebate of any such charge.

Channel carriage notices are also found at our website: www.twcny.com .

Time Warner Cable P.O. Box 4733, Syracuse, NY 13221


NOW ALL WE NEED IS THE LATEST NAVIGATOR!!!!

Those legal notices of upcoming changes to programming availability on your local TWC system have nothing to do with Digital Navigator and are off-topic in this thread. You might want to find the appropriate thread in the "Local HDTV Info and Reception (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=45)" and post that information there.

do you know what signs to look for when time warner is adding digital navigator?

do you know what signs to look for when time warner is adding digital navigator?

They sent out mailers here, followed by phone calls a few days before your box was scheduled for upgrade.

I hope listings of the new ODN version numbers under XAIT INFORMATION is a "sign" of Navigator coming! ;)

my gut says we will have navigator when dtv happens fully on or before june 12th....in my opinion.:D what xait information mean excuse m e if i seem blind to the tech lingo i'm not a bob vila type...i would love to be great with all this stuff mechanically.

I hope listings of the new ODN version numbers under XAIT INFORMATION is a "sign" of Navigator coming! ;)
Well, I think they are too, it's probably a sign that other houses in your area have the update. I think XAIT info is mostly head-end stats.

my gut says we will have navigator when dtv happens fully on or before june 12th....in my opinion.:D what xait information mean excuse m e if i seem blind to the tech lingo i'm not a bob vila type...i would love to be great with all this stuff mechanically.
I guess it would depend on whether your region is full-digital already or not. I'd guess that you wouldn't be upgraded on that day, but it could happen before.

They sent out mailers here, followed by phone calls a few days before your box was scheduled for upgrade.
Strange, all we got here were some ads on TV and information about it when you were on hold. Anyway, I'll be waiting for that phone call now.


I want ODN 3. Plain and Simple.

Strange, all we got here were some ads on TV and information about it when you were on hold. Anyway, I'll be waiting for that phone call now.

Just shows that there are differences between TW divisions (or, in your case, first cousins once removed, lol).


One thing I have not been able to make work in ODN 3.1 is the "other" diagnostic screen that you referenced... the Vol+/- ~ Ch+ combo. I think I saw some others reference the fact that 3.1 has either hidden or lost it. The only diagnostic pages I can get to are:

Hold "Select" till mail icon comes on, then direction down (lots of info but nothing for RF diagnostics)
A single page on a channel up in the 1600 range (don't remember the exact channel number right now) that has virtually no useful information whatsoever.

I'm really steamed now. Here in Greensboro NC we are stilll on SARA. I spoke to a friend of mine who works for TWC in a out of town Navigator division. My friend said in a meeting last week about Navigator they were told keyword search was on the list of Navigator features to be added in the near future. No date was available. What makes me mad is Navigator is getting all the featues I want while SARA lacks all the features I crave, GRRRRRRRRR

I'm really steamed now. Here in Greensboro NC we are stilll on SARA. I spoke to a friend of mine who works for TWC in a out of town Navigator division. My friend said in a meeting last week about Navigator they were told keyword search was on the list of Navigator features to be added in the near future. No date was available. What makes me mad is Navigator is getting all the featues I want while SARA lacks all the features I crave, GRRRRRRRRR


Maybe the systems on ODN 2.x will get that version, then us folks with 3.1 will be jealous of them... and poor Woody will still be not be granted his divorce from SARA, lol.

Upcoming changes for KC...

NEW! on or after 3/1
* TVSUPERSTORE, 82

NEW! on or after 3/20
* KMCI 38 in HD
* Starz OD, 118 & 367
* RetroPlex, 289
* IndiePlex, 287
* Wize Buys, 84

Anybody see one of the new Samsung boxes out in service (not beta testing) yet?

Anybody see one of the new Samsung boxes out in service (not beta testing) yet?

No... but I'd volunteer to test one in a heartbeat:D

Anybody see one of the new Samsung boxes out in service (not beta testing) yet?

Here in Milwaukee Wisconsin some divisions are giving out the new Samsung non-DVR boxes. I haven't heard anything about Samsung DVR's in circulation yet, but there are rumors that they are scheduled for release later this year.

Jack

second that .....i would love to test one also ! anything is better then scientific atlanta!:)

second that .....i would love to test one also ! anything is better then scientific atlanta!:)


I'd test one without second thought, but I think SciAtl boxes are OK. I'm glad Cisco killed the SciAtl name though...

Strange, all we got here were some ads on TV and information about it when you were on hold. Anyway, I'll be waiting for that phone call now.


Well perhaps not... I was never switched to Navigator, when I got my 8300HDC it already had ODN on it-the same version I am running now, I might add. I doubt they will do phone calls just to tell you they're upgrading the software (not changing it).

Well perhaps not... I was never switched to Navigator, when I got my 8300HDC it already had ODN on it-the same version I am running now, I might add. I doubt they will do phone calls just to tell you they're upgrading the software (not changing it).

Right... I got the phone call on the Passport>Navigator change, not on any of the Navigator version upgrades.

I'd test one without second thought, but I think SciAtl boxes are OK. I'm glad Cisco killed the SciAtl name though...

As an old time cable guy, the Scientific Atlanta name means something (generally good)... Cisco is just another evil empire, lol.

Same thing with Jerrold/General Instrument > Motorola

But I readily concede that Cisco and Motorola are more recognizable names to the masses.

I'd test one without second thought, but I think SciAtl boxes are OK. I'm glad Cisco killed the SciAtl name though...

No thanks on that Samsung box. I actually like Scientific Atlanta. The problems we have are not the fault of SA(other than memory on some boxes and hard drive space). It is the software used by TWC. Passport worked perfectly on SA DVRs in its later generations. Even the ODN 3 upgrades and MDN are working better.

I'm not. I liked the SA name and its sad to see it go. I believe that new 85xx series box is called the "Cisco Explorer". PFFFT!!!
YEP! :(
http://scientificatlanta.com/products/consumers/new_explorer8540HDC.htm

For me, I usually think of Pioneer when I think of older cable boxes. WE had some grey box when I was younger in the early 90s, can't remember the number. Then the BA 9000 series into the 2000s and the last Pioneer boxes were the old SD digital ones, BD-V1000. Now we're using SA boxes for everything, although some Pioneer are still in circulation(even though they suck with MDN).

Right... I got the phone call on the Passport>Navigator change, not on any of the Navigator version upgrades.

Never had a call. Just the mailing about how "you might lose saved shows" as "we upgrade to the exciting new Navigator".

Then it just happened one night...

Just like that Passport was dead. :(:(:(:(:(

I cried as I watched the mystro "blue screen of death" :rolleyes::rolleyes: :p

I'm not. I liked the SA name and its sad to see it go. I believe that new 85xx series box is called the "Cisco Explorer". PFFFT!!!
YEP! :(
http://scientificatlanta.com/products/consumers/new_explorer8540HDC.htm


I wonder if firewire recording will still be possible on this box. It does have the ports.

It has MPEG4/h.264 decoding, but 1080p is only at 30hz.

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps8612/ps8613/7009966.pdf

No thanks on that Samsung box. I actually like Scientific Atlanta. The problems we have are not the fault of SA(other than memory on some boxes and hard drive space). It is the software used by TWC. Passport worked perfectly on SA DVRs in its later generations. Even the ODN 3 upgrades and MDN are working better.

I'm not. I liked the SA name and its sad to see it go. I believe that new 85xx series box is called the "Cisco Explorer". PFFFT!!!
YEP! :(
http://scientificatlanta.com/products/consumers/new_explorer8540HDC.htm

For me, I usually think of Pioneer when I think of older cable boxes. WE had some grey box when I was younger in the early 90s, can't remember the number. Then the BA 9000 series into the 2000s and the last Pioneer boxes were the old SD digital ones, BD-V1000. Now we're using SA boxes for everything, although some Pioneer are still in circulation(even though they suck with MDN).

The Samsung SMT-H3090 is going to be the successor to all 8300 boxes. TWC has chosen them as their OCAP development partner. So no more Cisco boxes but box selection is dictated by the management. The Specs on the Samsung are much better than the 85xx boxes. It's more comparable to a Cisco 86xx box.

The Samsung SMT-H3090 is going to be the successor to all 8300 boxes. TWC has chosen them as their OCAP development partner. So no more Cisco boxes but box selection is dictated by the management. The Specs on the Samsung are much better than the 85xx boxes. It's more comparable to a Cisco 86xx box.They've chosen Samsung as "a" development partner. One of the main advantages of <tru2way> for the cable providers is that it frees them from dependence on any OEM as a source for leased STBs. Having deployed an OCAP IPG allows them to switch to the lowest bidder at any time.

It's probable that Samsung got some kind of concession for their help and cooperation, in the form of a big guaranteed order for boxes. That wouldn't guarantee that Samsung boxes will show up in any particular market, and it certainly doesn't guarantee that they won't buy Cisco boxes down the line. Remember, these development partnerships are symbiotic relationships--Samsung needed real-world IPGs to test on their <tru2way> platforms just as much as the IPG developers need OEMs to test their IPGs.

Obviously they only used SARA on Cisco/SA boxes, but in markets (like San Diego) where they used Passport, they ran it on boxes from Cisco/SA, Pioneer and Pace--on some systems they ran it on Moto boxes.

I could be wrong, but of TWC has signed some kind exclusivity agreement with Samsung, they're fools, removing a tether to Cisco just to unnecessarily tether themselves to Samsung. I can't find any evidence of such an agreement between TWC and Samsung, but I have found some PR about Samsung working with Cox on an OCAP IPG that they're having developed.

It's probable that Samsung got some kind of concession for their help and cooperation, in the form of a big guaranteed order for boxes. That wouldn't guarantee that Samsung boxes will show up in any particular market, and it certainly doesn't guarantee that they won't buy Cisco boxes down the line.

During my 18 years in the business I saw first hand how the largest MSO's would milk a vendor for R&D with big upside promises, only to conveniently play 800 lb gorilla and change their minds when it came to placing real orders. I can't begin to tell you how many times vendors like Pioneer, Panasonic, GI and SA came to my company (a top 10 MSO but not one of the "giants") trying to unload products that one of the giants had spurred them to develop and produce and then canceled orders. I'm certainly not saying that this has or will happen in this particular case but, if it did, it wouldn't be the first time one of the biggies left a vendor twisting in the wind. These partnership announcements tend to have a shelf life just long enough to bump stock prices and not much longer.

One thing I have not been able to make work in ODN 3.1 is the "other" diagnostic screen that you referenced... the Vol+/- ~ Ch+ combo.
[/LIST]

It works for me.

It works for me.

What is the exact key sequence you use?

No thanks on that Samsung box. I actually like Scientific Atlanta. The problems we have are not the fault of SA(other than memory on some boxes and hard drive space). It is the software used by TWC. Passport worked perfectly on SA DVRs in its later generations. Even the ODN 3 upgrades and MDN are working better.

I'm not. I liked the SA name and its sad to see it go. I believe that new 85xx series box is called the "Cisco Explorer". PFFFT!!!
YEP! :(
http://scientificatlanta.com/products/consumers/new_explorer8540HDC.htm

For me, I usually think of Pioneer when I think of older cable boxes. WE had some grey box when I was younger in the early 90s, can't remember the number. Then the BA 9000 series into the 2000s and the last Pioneer boxes were the old SD digital ones, BD-V1000. Now we're using SA boxes for everything, although some Pioneer are still in circulation(even though they suck with MDN).

It was the 3510HD (a non-DVR). TWC San Diego used them instead of the SA3250HD box. It was good at doing only edge stretching on 480i channels, so no side bars.

TWC San Diego has used the Pace DC-550HD, and the 3250HD. I have a TWC 3250HD. It used to be Passport until they put MDN on it.

What is the exact key sequence you use?

On the cable box, hold down Vol +/- together until the mail icon appears. Press Channel up.

I've been using a DVR (ReplayTV) since 2000 and I use it and the 8300HDC quite a lot. ReplayTV is arguably a better standard for comparison than MDN. You keep generally referring to all your system's problems. Perhaps you could be more specific and I'll see if I have the same ones. Then we can distinguish between a difference in performance and a difference in personal tolerance.

My 2.4.10_11 has been behaving tolerable since I got it, quite a while ago. It does not exibit any bugs. Missing features, yes, galore. Weird design choices, oh yes. Initial display of List of Recordings or Find Shows menus painfully slow, yes. Deleting a (scheduled or existing) recording slow, yes. Other misc. stuff slow (but not painfuly so), yes. Questionable look, yes. But it does not and never did crash or skip recordings; will record two things and play a prerecoded show at the same time without fuss. Works with eSATA with basically no issues (other than it may have something to do with several second wait to display List of Recordings, maybe because I have so much stuff recorded). Don't care about live buffers (if I want to watch something, I'll set a recording), so can't comment there. Channel guide reasonably responsive. Colors I don't particularly care about, as long as the info is readable. Overall, I can live with it, but if Tivo had a box handling SDV and OnDemand within reasonable price, I'd buy it for 30 second skip alone.

2.4.9_3 was a nightmare due to broken eSATA support; it also had annoying HDMI issues. I'd be hopping mad if we still have it.

2.4.9_3 was a nightmare due to broken eSATA support; it also had annoying HDMI issues. I'd be hopping mad if we still have it.


Yes, hopping mad sounds about accurate.

It was the 3510HD (a non-DVR). TWC San Diego used them instead of the SA3250HD box. It was good at doing only edge stretching on 480i channels, so no side bars.

We had those too. Since we had Pioneer/Passport equipment, the first SA equipment came in with DVRs and the SA3100HD. And since Pioneer doesn't make new cable boxes, all other boxes are SA. First it was 8000 SD/HD. Then 8300HD/SD. Now all new equipment is SA 8300HDC or 4250HDC. Although I have seen some refurbished(read: dumpster dive) Pioneer boxes and even 8000(original SA) DVRs given out.

I had a 3510HD. It was a real POS with HD channels because it would s t r e t c h the guide and channel banner on HD channels. The guide was slower on those channels and looked bad because everything was stretched(I don't like stretching).

Although I have seen some refurbished(read: dumpster dive) Pioneer boxes and even 8000(original SA) DVRs given out.

How recently?

Pioneer is defunct and to any TWC field techs/reps who may be reading this, I would hope that no divisions are giving out refurbished Pioneer boxes or the old SA-8000 boxes. The Pioneer boxes are horrible at running Navigator.

Remember this guy's You Tube Video? I Pm'd him back asking him what kind of box do you have? He said a Pioneer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQI6nRIvIk8&feature=channel_page

The SA 8000's are a little better, but not that much. For best results with Navigator, you need an MDN (non-C box) an SA-8300 DVR or higher.

Jack

I'll post this query in the Navigator thread as well.
Thought it may be appropriate since I'm using an Antec MX-1/WD6400.

Watching Sportscenter this morning, the box (8300HDC) shuts
off, then goes into a rapid countdown type screen (on the box).
Not the usual soft/hard boot screen normally seen.

After turning the box back on, the audio is noticably lower, and
the DVR now reads 0%, even though the shows are still listed.
This is with an Antec-MX1/WD6400 combo connected.

When trying to play a show that is on the list, there is only
black.

I cannot remember the previous version of Navigator that was running (it was the one with the color changes to the guide). The version currently running is: ODN 3.1.0_11.
Should be the same version that xenophonite has. This combo was working for about 9 months without issue.

Has anyone experienced this issue? Are the shows listed in
the DVR screen FOOBAR? Any hope of recovery?

Thanks,
Skid

How recently?

Pioneer is defunct and to any TWC field techs/reps who may be reading this, I would hope that no divisions are giving out refurbished Pioneer boxes or the old SA-8000 boxes. The Pioneer boxes are horrible at running Navigator.

Remember this guy's You Tube Video? I Pm'd him back asking him what kind of box do you have? He said a Pioneer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQI6nRIvIk8&feature=channel_page

The SA 8000's are a little better, but not that much. For best results with Navigator, you need an MDN (non-C box) an SA-8300 DVR or higher.

Jack

When my Pioneer HD non-DVR box was 'gatored (MDN, from Passport), it was slow but still at least twice as fast as that one. Like the one in the video, it did have the picture blackout during guide/menu updates because of the single tuner (an issue confirmed by one of my TW engineer friends).

The 8300HDC/ODN3.1.0_11 that I have now is absolutely nothing like that. Every button press, guide load, screen refresh, etc is virtually instantaneous... I would say the longest I ever wait for anything is about .5 seconds... and its usually not even that. Looks a whole bunch better, too.

Anybody see one of the new Samsung boxes out in service (not beta testing) yet?

We already have non DVR Samsung's' deployed... rumor has it that Samsung 3090 DVRs will come this summer. Applies to the NYC market.

The 8300HDC/ODN3.1.0_11 that I have now is absolutely nothing like that. Every button press, guide load, screen refresh, etc is virtually instantaneous... I would say the longest I ever wait for anything is about .5 seconds... and its usually not even that. Looks a whole bunch better, too.

Same with my SA-8300. There is not even a "Please Wait" when you press the day button to move the guide data. Sometimes when I browse horizontally, there might be a quarter to half a second of a second where it will get momentarily stuck, but never any "Please Wait....Loading Data" issues. We had some of that when we first got the box, not anymore. The new color scheme I think did more than just change the appearance of the guide.

Someone also posted above that Keyword Search is a first priority on the list of new features to be added! Although no date was given, if I had this option, along with the ability to create Manual Recordings, I think Navigator would be up to Passport standards in terms of features. If you have a good functioning box, Navigator CAN work well.

Have any of you with very slow C boxes that drive you crazy gotten another C box within the last 6 months and noticed any improvements? (Just because it was slow.) Now we need to find out why there is such state to state division variation with the performance of the C-boxes. We are seeing far more people with Nick's issues where the C-boxes have been painfully slow compared to others with C-boxes that work fast.

Variables for consideration:

1.) Do the newest C-boxes have faster response times in areas that had problematically slow C-boxes?

2.) Have speeds and reliability of the slow C-boxes, (if residents with slow C-boxes have gotten newer models) been improved with the new Navigator update that has the new fonts?

3.) How do the Samsung non-DVR's compare to SA boxes that run Navigator?

*Note that we cannot phrase any questions about the speed and reliability of the Samsung DVR's, as they have not yet been released to the general public."

Jack

The version currently running is: ODN 3.1.0_11.
Should be the same version that xenophonite has. This combo was working for about 9 months without issue.


Bummer, none of that happened to me after the 3.1 upgrade. The DVR list remained and I can still access all of the shows recorded from the previous version. I also have the Antec case.

Everything functions as it should, including the eSATA drive.

You might want to try powering cable box down, wait 10 sec. Power down and disconnect the eSATA drive. Boot the cable box on its own and make sure everything works. Power it down then re-attach the eSATA drive and boot up. Cross fingers.

...
Have any of you with very slow C boxes that drive you crazy gotten another C box within the last 6 months and noticed any improvements? (Just because it was slow.) Now we need to find out why there is such state to state division variation with the performance of the C-boxes. We are seeing far more people with Nick's issues where the C-boxes have been painfully slow compared to others with C-boxes that work fast.
...

I have seen a difference in reliability between C boxes first hand (one causing random missed recordings and another with a flaky eSATA port that caused glitches), and since my current box is reliable, I am not in a hurry to replace it. Speed is not nearly as big a deal for me, as it affects the preparation to view recordings only, not the actual vieweing. Anyway, I have yet to see a confirmed difference in speed in same model boxes with the same software and the same signal strength. But it is an interesting question.

How recently?

Pioneer is defunct and to any TWC field techs/reps who may be reading this, I would hope that no divisions are giving out refurbished Pioneer boxes or the old SA-8000 boxes. The Pioneer boxes are horrible at running Navigator.

Remember this guy's You Tube Video? I Pm'd him back asking him what kind of box do you have? He said a Pioneer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQI6nRIvIk8&feature=channel_page

The SA 8000's are a little better, but not that much. For best results with Navigator, you need an MDN (non-C box) an SA-8300 DVR or higher.

Jack

It was about a month ago when I was getting my mom a new HD box for her new HDTV. She needed a 4250HDC(since she also has a 8300 SD, no way I'd trade that for the 8300HDC ;)). Someone in front of me was getting a box, and it was one of those big, clunky old BD-V1000 Pioneer boxes!! As far as the SA8000, I don't think they're giving them out, but I saw quite a few behind the counter, probably returned by customers. I hope they're not going back out.

When I was there about two months ago getting an HD box for my SDTV(because I couldn't stand another Pioneer box, I 'lied' to get an HD box) I talked to another man getting a HD box in line who had to come back because they gave him a SDTV box!! And he had another big, clunky BD-V1000 Pioneer box.

But I can 100% agree those are awful with MDN. I had two different boxes since the 'upgrade' last May and each one was just as bad as the last one. The guide would always lose data after a day. The channel banner constantly said 'Loading'. The "B" search feature never worked. It didn't even want to work. The screen would always say "Press EXIT To Dismiss Menu". It would get hung up changing channels because of the fading channel banner.

I'm a TW customer in Columbus, OH. I've got a SA 8240HDC with ODN 2.4.10_11. Is there anyway to force a software upgrade, or is this a sit and wait event? I'm new to digital cable, and I have to say... I'm pretty unimpressed with this crappy box. I asked the lady at the local TWC office if this was the newest box they offered, and she said this is the most up-to-date box available. Does she just not know what she's talking about? I'm hoping there is a better offering that she isn't aware of.

You'll get upgraded only when everyone in central Ohio does.

I'm a TW customer in Columbus, OH. I've got a SA 8240HDC with ODN 2.4.10_11. Is there anyway to force a software upgrade, or is this a sit and wait event? I'm new to digital cable, and I have to say... I'm pretty unimpressed with this crappy box. I asked the lady at the local TWC office if this was the newest box they offered, and she said this is the most up-to-date box available. Does she just not know what she's talking about? I'm hoping there is a better offering that she isn't aware of.

It probably is the most up to date box in your division. We still have the 8300HD which is a decent box if it were about 3-5 years ago. TWC is woefully behind current equipment and about 10 years behind satellite equipment in our division. This is the one big stumbling block for me. I'm happy with the recent HD additions, but am really hoping for some new equipment and if not, at least get us Navigator.

I'm a TW customer in Columbus, OH. I've got a SA 8240HDC with ODN 2.4.10_11. Is there anyway to force a software upgrade, or is this a sit and wait event? I'm new to digital cable, and I have to say... I'm pretty unimpressed with this crappy box. I asked the lady at the local TWC office if this was the newest box they offered, and she said this is the most up-to-date box available. Does she just not know what she's talking about? I'm hoping there is a better offering that she isn't aware of.

No, the only way to get an upgrade is to wait until your node (community, neighborhood, general area, etc.) is upgraded. There is no way to force an upgrade. When you reboot your box, it may be downloading new information, but it will not upgrade the IPG.

Yes, pre-ODN 3 is unimpressive, but ODN 3 brings many improvements and the new color scheme. ODN 3 should be deployed shortly, and you will find members on this forum that have it. I live in Indianapolis, and we are still on ODN 2.4.9_3 with annoying HDMI and eSATA issues, but a customer service rep told me the version "with the new colors" (ODN 3) was pushed to the boxes, but the upgrade failed. That means we should be getting the upgrade soon.

As for the hardware, I don't think they are deploying and new DVRs right now. Samsung DVRs will be available later in the year, and they are built for ODN so they may run it better.

Also, you will always get whatever version of software that is coming out of the head-end, so doing a box swap won't get you an upgraded version either. If a customer service rep. tells you that it will, they are mistaken.

My source at Time Warner said keyword search was being developed for a future upgrade.As for manual recording I received no information on that feature. The goal I understand is to eventually have NAVIGATOR superior to PASSPORT. Oh also remote dvr programing to be added also.I only see my friend a few times a year but try to get as much info as my friend will give.

No, the only way to get an upgrade is to wait until your node (community, neighborhood, general area, etc.) is upgraded. There is no way to force an upgrade. When you reboot your box, it may be downloading new information, but it will not upgrade the IPG.

Yes, pre-ODN 3 is unimpressive, but ODN 3 brings many improvements and the new color scheme. ODN 3 should be deployed shortly, and you will find members on this forum that have it. I live in Indianapolis, and we are still on ODN 2.4.9_3 with annoying HDMI and eSATA issues, but a customer service rep told me the version "with the new colors" (ODN 3) was pushed to the boxes, but the upgrade failed. That means we should be getting the upgrade soon.

Huh? :confused::confused::confused::confused:

They pushed an update but it failed? What does that mean? The boxes are totally messed up or are they running the same, previous version? Could that be why I have all that 3.xx information on my XAIT INFORMATION screen? I'm starting to get a but paranoid of TWC and think there's something fishy about this upgrade.

Huh? :confused::confused::confused::confused:

They pushed an update but it failed? What does that mean? The boxes are totally messed up or are they running the same, previous version? Could that be why I have all that 3.xx information on my XAIT INFORMATION screen? I'm starting to get a but paranoid of TWC and think there's something fishy about this upgrade.

Apparently they tried to push the update but it failed, and we're still running the same old version. I've had 2.4.10_11 upgrade info on my screen since before Christmas, and I still haven't gotten it. But, I was also told that we were skipping the 2.4.10_11 upgrade and going straight to ODN 3.

The whole operation seems fishy.

Apparently they tried to push the update but it failed, and we're still running the same old version. I've had 2.4.10_11 upgrade info on my screen since before Christmas, and I still haven't gotten it. But, I was also told that we were skipping the 2.4.10_11 upgrade and going straight to ODN 3.

The whole operation seems fishy.

I have 3.1.0_7 for Network, Monitor and ODN.

Also, on the "select + arrow down" diagnostics screen, the Network, Monitor and ODN versions are all listed as 2.4.10_11.

That's pretty disappointing to hear how these updates work. Here I was hoping that listing meant the update was coming soon. Especially since its been almost a month since the MDN upgrade. And twcneo's website said that the changes were supposed to come in February.

Thanks for all the quick responses guys. I've learned a lot about my cable box tonight =] lol

They are beginning to roll out Uverse in my area... considering making the switch when it is available at my address. Hopefully ODN3 will make this more tolerable.

Thanks for all the quick responses guys. I've learned a lot about my cable box tonight =] lol

They are beginning to roll out Uverse in my area... considering making the switch when it is available at my address. Hopefully ODN3 will make this more tolerable.

Yeah, I thought about getting Uverse too, but we have some TVs that don't have a digital box, and with Uverse, you have to have a box on every TV.

I have 3.1.0_7 for Network, Monitor and ODN.

Also, on the "select + arrow down" diagnostics screen, the Network, Monitor and ODN versions are all listed as 2.4.10_11.

That's pretty disappointing to hear how these updates work. Here I was hoping that listing meant the update was coming soon. Especially since its been almost a month since the MDN upgrade. And twcneo's website said that the changes were supposed to come in February.

I have 2.4.10_11 for Network, Monitor, and ODN. Interestingly enough, all entries start with TWC, i.e., TWC_NETWORK_ODN: 2.4.10_11. I guess I expected it to be like BHN_NETWORK_ODN...

When I access the usual diagnostics screen, I have 2.4.9_3 for ODN. I don't recall seeing network and monitor on that screen, but I'll check.

I'm going to call later today and ask about Chiller TV, and I'll try and squeeze some info out of Dimshack.

Well, I checked, and as of 6:15 AM, Indianapolis has 2.4.10_11!

ODN 3 is that much closer, I can taste it.

I don't have time to look now, but it doesn't seem to be any faster.

I used to have 2.4.10_11 mentions on my XAIT info screen, so apparently you will get updated to what is on that screen. All mentions of 2.4.9_3 are gone.

Yeah, I thought about getting Uverse too, but we have some TVs that don't have a digital box, and with Uverse, you have to have a box on every TV.

THAT is the reason that the cable ops are in no hurry to drop analog and go all digital. They consider the ability to feed all those legacy TV's out there without a box one of their biggest competitive advantages. Sure, they'd like to see a box or two in every house, but a box on EVERY television out there is not in their best interest.

THAT is the reason that the cable ops are in no hurry to drop analog and go all digital. They consider the ability to feed all those legacy TV's out there without a box one of their biggest competitive advantages. Sure, they'd like to see a box or two in every house, but a box on EVERY television out there is not in their best interest.

I can see why, I'm not sure it makes sense to have to rent a DVR for a TV in my basement that gets used maybe 3 times a month. I'm not sure BHN could handle a box on every TV set in every house... :p

Bresnan, a small cable outfit switched to an all digital system in some markets by making a small digital converter to add to your additional outlets. They gave you one free and charge $.99 for each additional one. You don't get a guide or anything. I don't see why larger outfits can't do something similar. The bandwidth gain would be well worth it.

Bresnan, a small cable outfit switched to an all digital system in some markets by making a small digital converter to add to your additional outlets. They gave you one free and charge $.99 for each additional one. You don't get a guide or anything. I don't see why larger outfits can't do something similar. The bandwidth gain would be well worth it.

I obviously don't know this for fact, but it sounds like it was an act of desperation from a system that may have still had had 450 or 550 MHz plant. Those converters may have been the only bandaid they could afford... a way to hold out until one of the biggies decides to buy them.

For most operators, unless they have some overriding need (like the massive theft of service problems in NYC), they have no reason to do things like that... no reason to eat the cost of supplying or subsidizing that converter (and what about its associated remote?). As long as they can provide a satisfying level of HD service (which I believe that TW has done, at least in this market), there is still great value in maintaining analog service for those legacy TVs.

It would make more sense (and probably has something to do with TW offering free swaps to HD boxes for any digital customer - I doubt that any operator is buying ANY new SD digital boxes) to eliminate SD digital channels that are also carried in HD... you need a box for either... if all the boxes are HD, just let the box downconvert for SD TVs. Granted, that would not clear as much bandwidth as the analogs would, but SD digitals have no competitive value, either.

This will all change as time progresses... legacy TVs will fade away, tru2way will come on-board... more worthwhile HD services will be available... but for at least the next 5-7 years there will be no wholesale rush to eliminate analog.

BTW, this is not just idle conjecture on my part... its a semi-educated opinion based on 18 years experience as part of the group that made these decisions for a major MSO. I'm no longer in the business or part of the process, but I know how they think.

On the cable box, hold down Vol +/- together until the mail icon appears. Press Channel up.

Nope... not on this one. I have held Vol +/- (yes, on the box) as long as 90 seconds with no mail icon or any other activity/effect.

THAT is the reason that the cable ops are in no hurry to drop analog and go all digital. They consider the ability to feed all those legacy TV's out there without a box one of their biggest competitive advantages. Sure, they'd like to see a box or two in every house, but a box on EVERY television out there is not in their best interest.

THAT is why I hate cable. What's good for the TV without a box in the junk rooom or basement is bad for the HDTV.

Also, cable is sitting on a gold mine they do not know about(or choose to ignore). Cable has millions of subscribers in a given market. A good majority of these customers have more than one TV in their house. They could easily make the boxes more affordable($1 or $2 a month rather than $7) and make every customer have at least one. Then, people with additional TVs would have more. That would be a huge advantage over satellite, where the boxes are $4-$5 a month, plus you have to 'own' the equipment.

Also, it would be an all digital system. No bandwidth wasted on analog transmission. With channels still on SDV, cable could meet or beat satellite in HD offerings and have additional VOD and enhanced TV features.

But of course, cable always has to be a day (or a decade) behind! :rolleyes:

Well, cable would still (I believe is still required by the FCC) to keep a basic analog package of 2-13 for locals and public access. However, going to a mostly digtal system would benefit many people and generate revenue for the cable op.

THAT is why I hate cable. What's good for the TV without a box in the junk rooom or basement is bad for the HDTV.

Also, cable is sitting on a gold mine they do not know about(or choose to ignore). Cable has millions of subscribers in a given market. A good majority of these customers have more than one TV in their house. They could easily make the boxes more affordable($1 or $2 a month rather than $7) and make every customer have at least one. Then, people with additional TVs would have more. That would be a huge advantage over satellite, where the boxes are $4-$5 a month, plus you have to 'own' the equipment.

Also, it would be an all digital system. No bandwidth wasted on analog transmission. With channels still on SDV, cable could meet or beat satellite in HD offerings and have additional VOD and enhanced TV features.

But of course, cable always has to be a day (or a decade) behind! :rolleyes:


Renting more boxes would NOT be a gold mine for cable ops. Cable ops would love nothing more than to be out of the box business altogether.... Do you really think that a $7-10/mo rental fee makes for a good ROI on a $300-500 box that they also have to stock and maintain? Ops can't wait for tru2way to go mainstream so they can still hold the key and maintain some level of brand identity, yet shift the responsibility (and cost) for all the other stuff (tuning, dvr, etc) into somebody else's court. The last thing they want is to start stocking, deploying and maintaining large amounts of cheaper ($60-100?) boxes that they would be renting for $1-2/mo... no business case for that at all. Box and remote rental fees in most cases are regulated... ops are not allowed to make them a profit center. They have and will provide what is necessary to support their core business, but the boxes themselves are decidedly NOT their core business.

As I said, analog is not a waste of bandwidth for most cable ops at this time... it is still an effective hook into the majority of homes out there, at least for the near term. Cable may seem to be behind to some of the bleeding edge types (the type that hang out on these forums, lol), but their target audience is mainstream USA and their offerings need to appease them more than any other group. That model requires careful balancing of what their available bandwidth delivers... a balance point that is shifting but at this time does not call for total (or even near) abandonment of analog.

Well, cable would still (I believe is still required by the FCC) to keep a basic analog package of 2-13 for locals and public access. However, going to a mostly digital system would benefit many people and generate revenue for the cable op.

I agree,

And I know that other cable companies (i.e Cox) are all digital. The problem is that I believe TWC thinks there is too big of a Senior Citizen's demographic, or people who don't care enough about the technology, where they would balk about paying $7-$8 extra for a digital cable box as long as they are perfectly happy with Standard Service (channels 2-99 in most markets.) They think (IMO) that given a choice, Grandpa would cancel his cable service rather than pay the added charge for a digital box for channels in the 100+ tier that he never watches.

There are people in my own family and other relatives of mine that literally don't even know that channels about 99 even exist. This raises some more good research questions:

1.) What's the proportion of any given population with cable TV that do not have digital service,(Just channels 2-99) when weighted with people who have Digital Standard or higher? My belief is that if most people don't have or get the channels above 99, they don't want them

2.) Coinciding with this, how many people just do not care about the channels above 99, representing a Digital Package?

You would almost have to have such an overwhelming abundance of Digital Service subs, outnumbering the Seniors with Standard Service by 10-1 (or more), to get TWC nationally to consider requiring everyone to have a digital box. TWC doesn't want to lose the Senior demographic who may be struggling with limited income to be forced into getting a digital box. I think that's the hold up with TWC refusing to go to an all digital format for each sub.

Jack

I agree,

And I know that other cable companies (i.e Cox) are all digital. The problem is that I believe TWC thinks there is too big of a Senior Citizen's demographic, or people who don't care enough about the technology, where they would balk about paying $7-$8 extra for a digital cable box as long as they are perfectly happy with Standard Service (channels 2-99 in most markets.) They think (IMO) that given a choice, Grandpa would cancel his cable service rather than pay the added charge for a digital box for channels in the 100+ tier that he never watches.

There are people in my own family and other relatives of mine that literally don't even know that channels about 99 even exist. This raises some more good research questions:

1.) What's the proportion of any given population with cable TV that do not have digital service,(Just channels 2-99) when weighted with people who have Digital Standard or higher? My belief is that if most people don't have or get the channels above 99, they don't want them

2.) Coinciding with this, how many people just do not care about the channels above 99, representing a Digital Package?

You would almost have to have such an overwhelming abundance of Digital Service subs, outnumbering the Seniors with Standard Service by 10-1 (or more), to get TWC nationally to consider requiring everyone to have a digital box. TWC doesn't want to lose the Senior demographic who may be struggling with limited income to be forced into getting a digital box. I think that's the hold up with TWC refusing to go to an all digital format for each sub.

Jack

Your post actually makes a good case for my position. Its also not just the seniors... and you can put money on the fact that TW knows EXACTLY how many of every type of sub they have... at least what is being paid for. What may be a guess, however, is how many "no box" 2nd, 3rd, 4th.... 11th...12th...etc outlets out there that the customers have hooked up on their own. Since they do not charge for them and actually encourage customers to do that (precisely because DBS and U-Verse customers can't), they do not have an accurate count of those. But those are exactly the outlets (and the reason) they want to keep serving with analog.

Speaking for myself, I'm not a senior (but closing in fast, lol)... I have one HD box with soup-nuts in my main family room TV setup, but I have ELEVEN more TV's hooked up in other rooms (including the garage!), that I love having basic analog service on for no additional charge. All I need to do is be able to watch a football game or race while I'm working on the car, or have CNN or Sportscenter on while I'm sitting at the my desk, or checking the Weather Channel in the kitchen while I'm having breakfast. I don't need or want and can't afford a box for those 11 other TVs... but I DO want my HDTV and 50+ HD channels and HD/DVR when I sit down to really watch TV in the evening. Right now what I am offered by TW satisfies all of those needs.

Your post actually makes a good case for my position. Its also not just the seniors... and you can put money on the fact that TW knows EXACTLY how many of every type of sub they have... at least what is being paid for. What may be a guess, however, is how many "no box" 2nd, 3rd, 4th.... 11th...12th...etc outlets out there that the customers have hooked up on their own. Since they do not charge for them and actually encourage customers to do that (precisely because DBS and U-Verse customers can't), they do not have an accurate count of those. But those are exactly the outlets (and the reason) they want to keep serving with analog.

Speaking for myself, I'm not a senior (but closing in fast, lol)... I have one HD box with soup-nuts in my main family room TV setup, but I have ELEVEN more TV's hooked up in other rooms (including the garage!), that I love having basic analog service on for no additional charge. All I need to do is be able to watch a football game or race while I'm working on the car, or have CNN or Sportscenter on while I'm sitting at the my desk, or checking the Weather Channel in the kitchen while I'm having breakfast. I don't need or want and can't afford a box for those 11 other TVs... but I DO want my HDTV and 50+ HD channels and HD/DVR when I sit down to really watch TV in the evening. Right now what I am offered by TW satisfies all of those needs.

Yup, or you have spouse and/or kids using secondary TVs (my case).

Also, it's not just the cost of having extra boxes, it's the inconvenience (find a place for the box, second remote, *very* low WAF, ...). It is a major cable advantage over satelite, at least in my household.

Yup, or you have spouse and/or kids using secondary TVs (my case).

Also, it's not just the cost of having extra boxes, it's the inconvenience (find a place for the box, second remote, *very* low WAF, ...). It is a major cable advantage over satelite, at least in my household.

My son is out of the house, my daughter is away at college mostly, my part-time live-in in-laws have recently passed away, and my wife rarely watches TV... maybe 10 minutes of the news at bedtime. But that doesn't mean that all the TVs I had set up for when they were all here, but only occasionally use now, should be removed or be required to rent a box for.

I have every reason to despise TW for job-related personal reasons, but still cannot justify satellite over cable.

I'm happy with the selection TWC is now offering. Yesterdays 10 HD additions put the lineup where it should be. I would LOVE to be able to purchase my own HD DVR (Like the Dish ViP922) and use it with TWC. It would give me all the features I want on a digital cable box and wouldn't cost TWC anything to stock. They would only have to supply a Tru2Way card. I would spend the money and ditch the SA 8300 in a second if it were possible.

I guess the other thing to note is that in my division, TWC may just not see a need to go all digital because the SDV is working flawlessly. I've had no major issues since it was deployed.

I'm happy with the selection TWC is now offering. Yesterdays 10 HD additions put the lineup where it should be. I would LOVE to be able to purchase my own HD DVR (Like the Dish ViP922) and use it with TWC. It would give me all the features I want on a digital cable box and wouldn't cost TWC anything to stock. They would only have to supply a Tru2Way card. I would spend the money and ditch the SA 8300 in a second if it were possible.

I guess the other thing to note is that in my division, TWC may just not see a need to go all digital because the SDV is working flawlessly. I've had no major issues since it was deployed.

How many HD channels?

We have SDV deployed in some areas. But it is not being used at all for new HD yet. I think they have some thing where they want 'all' areas to have SDV before significant channels are added. But we are getting 5 channels on 3/15!!

The thing that really really sucks is my area has Navigator and SDV. I find this thing about TWC to be bulls... that they would piss on their customers with SDV(who also happen to be a majority existing TWC customers with a few ex-Adelphia or Comacast mixed in). Our TWC system has always been advanced. It is the Adelphia system on SARA that is shi. The thing I will never understand is why the SARA areas are not on SDV yet, since it is capable. They actually converted Passport areas to Navigator and deployed SDV in those areas before deploying it in the already ready SARA areas.

Sometimes I think out TWC division is run by:
(insert stock photo of baboons next to typewriters here)

I'm watching the Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer right now on CNN SD :( on channel 350 and the screen just went blank with green text that said "Poor Quality Signal". I've seen that a few times before, it looks like something from the Navigator diagnostic screen, just a plain text message. And I am viewing the ODN box.

I'm happy with the selection TWC is now offering. Yesterdays 10 HD additions put the lineup where it should be. I would LOVE to be able to purchase my own HD DVR (Like the Dish ViP922) and use it with TWC. It would give me all the features I want on a digital cable box and wouldn't cost TWC anything to stock. They would only have to supply a Tru2Way card. I would spend the money and ditch the SA 8300 in a second if it were possible.

I guess the other thing to note is that in my division, TWC may just not see a need to go all digital because the SDV is working flawlessly. I've had no major issues since it was deployed.

How many HD's total do you have now? With the next batch of 5 to be added April 2nd, I will have 47 "basic" HDs, 4 pay HDs, one free On-Demand HD and one PPV movie On-Demand. I also have available - but do not subscribe to - several more HD pays, the HD Tier (I do not care about MGMHD or or either of the HD-Net channels), and don't forget the Big Ten HD channel (what that is doing on a system in the middle of ACC/SEC country is beyond me). I'm really getting to the point where there are not any more HD channels to add that really are of interest to me.

My SDV also works flawlessly... I really do not even pay attention or care about what channels are or aren't SDV... there is no perceivable difference between them.

How many HD's total do you have now? With the next batch of 5 to be added April 2nd, I will have 47 "basic" HDs, 4 pay HDs, one free On-Demand HD and one PPV movie On-Demand. I'm really getting to the point where there are not any more channels to add that really are of interest to me.

My SDV also works flawlessly... I really do not even pay attention or care about what channels are or aren't SDV... there is no perceivable difference between them.

With the HDTV Tier + subscription to HBO giving one HD channel, in two weeks I'll finally be over 20 national HD channels. Too bad I don't give a shi about the majority of those channels. :(

We have crap like HGTV, A&E, TBS, Discovery HDT, Big Ten HD.

SDV is not flawless. I put on SDV HD Net right now and I can't even see it and the audio cuts out. The other day the picture was just a mess of blocks. It's totally messed up. And the worst part is UHD is scheduled to be included on SDV according to the orignal list. I cringe and dread the day that happens, as UHD is the most heavily viewed HD Tier channel for me.

I'm watching the Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer right now on CNN SD :( on channel 350 and the screen just went blank with green text that said "Poor Quality Signal". I've seen that a few times before, it looks like something from the Navigator diagnostic screen, just a plain text message. And I am viewing the ODN box.


If I can trust my memory, even if you had CNN-HD you would still be watching Wolf in SD with red sidebars... a huge amount of CNN programming (seems like the majority) is still produced in SD. CNN-HD is one of the more dissapointing HD additions we have had.

With the HDTV Tier + subscription to HBO giving one HD channel, in two weeks I'll finally be over 20 national HD channels. Too bad I don't give a shi about the majority of those channels. :(

We have crap like HGTV, A&E, TBS, Discovery HDT, Big Ten HD.

SDV is not flawless. I put on SDV HD Net right now and I can't even see it and the audio cuts out. The other day the picture was just a mess of blocks. It's totally messed up. And the worst part is UHD is scheduled to be included on SDV according to the orignal list. I cringe and dread the day that happens, as UHD is the most heavily viewed HD Tier channel for me.

That type of PQ/AQ problem is not an SDV issue, per se. More likely you have a good old cable plant or drop issue that is affecting the RF channels that just happen to be used for SDV. SDV handles the provisioning, but the actual delivery is no different than any other channel once you have been provisioned.

UHD is not SDV here... It was added here before SDV was implemented, so its on a dedicated broadcast channel.

If I can trust my memory, even if you had CNN-HD you would still be watching Wolf in SD with red sidebars... a huge amount of CNN programming (seems like the majority) is still produced in SD. CNN-HD is one of the more dissapointing HD additions we have had.

I don't have CNN HD. But I still want it. It would be more useful than HGTV or Discovery HDT.

But this was CNN SD. I don't know what happened with the signal, but now it is fine. Kinda reminds me of the horrible days of Satellite. Except it is perfect clear and sunny here right now! :eek:

That type of PQ/AQ problem is not an SDV issue, per se. More likely you have a good old cable plant or drop issue that is affecting the RF channels that just happen to be used for SDV. SDV handles the provisioning, but the actual delivery is no different than any other channel once you have been provisioned.

UHD is not SDV here... It was added here before SDV was implemented, so its on a dedicated broadcast channel.

It must be a cable plant issue. Every other channel works fine except HD Net. A few days back it was HD Net Movies. Before that, these channels usually worked fine.

All of our current channels were added before SDV. But a few are supposed to be added. The entire HD Tier along with Sportstime Ohio(a local HD RSN) and FOX Sports HD(which is only on for Cavs games) are also supposed to be added to SDV.

Also, I assume the March 15 channels will probably be SDV if they're added in SDV areas. Non SDV areas I'm assuming will be using leftover bandwidth(there's a little bit) which might explain why we are only getting 5 channels.

Chiller was added on 2/17 (SD only) but it is a SDV channel. It seems like anything newly added will go on SDV where it is available.

That's good news to know it is not SDV's fault this is happening. I attributed it to SDV since I have seen a Please Wait/not available message on one SDV HD channel.

It must be a cable plant issue. Every other channel works fine except HD Net. A few days back it was HD Net Movies. Before that, these channels usually worked fine.

All of our current channels were added before SDV. But a few are supposed to be added. The entire HD Tier along with Sportstime Ohio(a local HD RSN) and FOX Sports HD(which is only on for Cavs games) are also supposed to be added to SDV.

Also, I assume the March 15 channels will probably be SDV if they're added in SDV areas. Non SDV areas I'm assuming will be using leftover bandwidth(there's a little bit) which might explain why we are only getting 5 channels.

Chiller was added on 2/17 (SD only) but it is a SDV channel. It seems like anything newly added will go on SDV where it is available.

That's good news to know it is not SDV's fault this is happening. I attributed it to SDV since I have seen a Please Wait/not available message on one SDV HD channel.

The "Not available" message technically is an SDV issue... but more in the implementation than the basic premise of the system. Too many people are watching for the bandwidth they have allocated to SDV in your node, so you got a "busy signal". I almost never see that, and the rare times that I do the channel almost always pops in all on its own about two seconds later... without manually retuning the channel (the normal remedy for the "Not Available" message.

A very large number of SD digital channels - even very old ones - have been moved to SDV in my system. (I know... it's sad that I spend my time going through all the channels with the diagnostic screen up to see what's SDV and what's not. Inquiring minds want to know, lol.)

I don't have CNN HD. But I still want it. It would be more useful than HGTV or Discovery HDT.

But this was CNN SD. I don't know what happened with the signal, but now it is fine. Kinda reminds me of the horrible days of Satellite. Except it is perfect clear and sunny here right now! :eek:

My comment about CNN-HD was based on your sad face directly after you noted that you were watching on CNN SD.

What channels are useful or desireable to you or me or the next person are all going to be different. HD Theater happens to be one of my favorites, my mother-in-law used to keep HGTV on 24 hours a day... its different for every person. All they can do is try to keep the selection balanced... every channel is not going to be a winner with every person. What bugs me are the HD channels that have very little HD programming... CNN, Golf, ABC Family and Disney are particularly gross offenders in this regard. THAT is a waste of bandwidth, whether you like the channel or not.

How many HD channels?

We have SDV deployed in some areas. But it is not being used at all for new HD yet. I think they have some thing where they want 'all' areas to have SDV before significant channels are added. But we are getting 5 channels on 3/15!!

The thing that really really sucks is my area has Navigator and SDV. I find this thing about TWC to be bulls... that they would piss on their customers with SDV(who also happen to be a majority existing TWC customers with a few ex-Adelphia or Comacast mixed in). Our TWC system has always been advanced. It is the Adelphia system on SARA that is shi. The thing I will never understand is why the SARA areas are not on SDV yet, since it is capable. They actually converted Passport areas to Navigator and deployed SDV in those areas before deploying it in the already ready SARA areas.

Sometimes I think out TWC division is run by:
(insert stock photo of baboons next to typewriters here)

We have 63 now and the lineup is currently better than what DirecTV offers to me because we have TravelHD. Keep in mind that 4 are PPV and VOD channels. The only channel missing that I now wouldn't mind having is SpikeHD. I'm completely happy with the current line up and only wish we had better equipment or at least Navigator.

Any chance we could get back on topic?

Any chance we could get back on topic?

Agreed.

Actually the amount of HD is relevant to Navigator as is SDV, but I see where you are coming from.

One of the points being made was that SARA markets aren't being converted to Nav because of SDV yet Nav handles SDV. I follow this thread mainly to keep up with info so I can push up on our division to get Nav as SARA is just so outdated.

Actually the amount of HD is relevant to Navigator as is SDV, but I see where you are coming from.

amount yes, but specific talk about which channels and who is receiving them belong in the programming forum thread.

But then you go to that thread and find people talking about box issues and IPG talk that belong in the hardware forum.

So both threads go off topic.

amount yes, but specific talk about which channels and who is receiving them belong in the programming forum thread.

But then you go to that thread and find people talking about box issues and IPG talk that belong in the hardware forum.

So both threads go off topic.

Good point and I think it happens because the topics are so easily combined. The are both relevant to each other that it's easy to go off on them.

THAT is the reason that the cable ops are in no hurry to drop analog and go all digital. They consider the ability to feed all those legacy TV's out there without a box one of their biggest competitive advantages. Sure, they'd like to see a box or two in every house, but a box on EVERY television out there is not in their best interest.

despite propular option, the cable companies don't make money on cable boxes, at least not a killing. They want you to buy into digital cable where they make a lot of money. Digital cable requires a cable box, but since the charge for digital is for the whole house, it is of no real benefit to them to rent you more boxes, they already have you hooked. The same is true for DVR, the DVR charge is not a money maker. People with a DVR watch more TV, people who watch more TV subscribe to more channels, especially the premiums like HBO. If DVR rental was the real money maker, then they would offer a DVR to folks who have only analog cable.

I'm not sure if it's due to the 3.x upgrade but the SDV HD channels sure do look a lot better. Practically no blockiness, especially with fast motion scenes. Palladia also used to be terrible with lots of flashing or strobing lights - seems much better. Not sure if they improved the encoding on transmission end or if there were improvements due to the box upgrade. For those on 2.x, does Palladia still look blocky when there are lots of flashing lights?

despite propular option, the cable companies don't make money on cable boxes, at least not a killing. They want you to buy into digital cable where they make a lot of money. Digital cable requires a cable box, but since the charge for digital is for the whole house, it is of no real benefit to them to rent you more boxes, they already have you hooked. The same is true for DVR, the DVR charge is not a money maker. People with a DVR watch more TV, people who watch more TV subscribe to more channels, especially the premiums like HBO. If DVR rental was the real money maker, then they would offer a DVR to folks who have only analog cable.

My point exactly... which I expounded upon in several posts after the one you quoted.

From what I can tell moving from 2.4.9_3 to 2.4.10_11.


Response may be faster by a few milliseconds
Box can lock on to 1080i resolution
No more HDMI bugs
When booting, box displays OCAP; it used to say "Alt"
Box still says "Alt" during boot, but the "L" is full now. It used to look like "A,t"
No SDV as of yet
Had no trouble with channels, ie, all of my subscribed channels were saved
Box didn't forget that it was a DVR, didn't lose recordings.
Box didn't magically turn into a SMT-H3090 overnight :p

Box didn't magically turn into a SMT-H3090 overnight :p


That would have been one heck of a software update:D

How recently?

Pioneer is defunct and to any TWC field techs/reps who may be reading this, I would hope that no divisions are giving out refurbished Pioneer boxes or the old SA-8000 boxes. The Pioneer boxes are horrible at running Navigator.

Remember this guy's You Tube Video? I Pm'd him back asking him what kind of box do you have? He said a Pioneer:

The SA 8000's are a little better, but not that much. For best results with Navigator, you need an MDN (non-C box) an SA-8300 DVR or higher.

Jack

Here is Kansas City they are still passing out Pioneer Boxes and SA2100 Boxes. I have several friends with those big Pioneer boxes running MDN. One friend has the same box he got way back in 1999, I have asked him why he doesn't swap it out for a new box and he is one of those people who just lives with the slow guide load. But he is still using AOL dialup so that explains a lot doesn't it.

From what I can tell moving from 2.4.9_3 to 2.4.10_11.


Response may be faster by a few milliseconds
Box can lock on to 1080i resolution
No more HDMI bugs
When booting, box displays OCAP; it used to say "Alt"
Box still says "Alt" during boot, but the "L" is full now. It used to look like "A,t"
No SDV as of yet
Had no trouble with channels, ie, all of my subscribed channels were saved
Box didn't forget that it was a DVR, didn't lose recordings.
Box didn't magically turn into a SMT-H3090 overnight :p


I've always wondered that.. Why does the box say Alt during the boot sequence? When I had an OCAP box in fall of 2007, it used to say OCAP the entire time. Now it says OCAP part of the time and Alt the rest of the time.

Originally Posted by nextbgates95
Box didn't magically turn into a SMT-H3090 overnight

That would have been one heck of a software update:D

The software update I want now is for the box to magically turn into a box for any company other than Time Warner Cable.

I just found out that the March 15 channels are now going to be teh March 31 channels. :mad::mad::mad::mad:

And then at the end of April, we get 5 more garbage channels added. ABC Family HD, Animal Planet HD, The Learning Channel HD, Bravo HD, CNBC HD.

I just hope the Paint Drying HD, Grass Growing HD, Flies Reproducing HD and HSN HD are added at the end of May!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Navigator Keyword Search is being developed for a future update. This means it could be next on the list for big things. Although no date or division has announced it yet, when do you think it will be first avalible? What division do you think will be first to get it?

This is just speculation, but I am going to say sometime before June 12. (The universal cutoff date for digital TV, at least as of now.) Obviously, the two aren't related to each other, but I just "have a feeling." I think the first division to get it will be San Diego. It will probably go to MDN boxes first, than OCAP. I think by around mid October, all divisions will have it.

Too soon? Too late? What do you think?

Jack

Here is Kansas City they are still passing out Pioneer Boxes and SA2100 Boxes. I have several friends with those big Pioneer boxes running MDN. One friend has the same box he got way back in 1999, I have asked him why he doesn't swap it out for a new box and he is one of those people who just lives with the slow guide load. But he is still using AOL dialup so that explains a lot doesn't it.

I actually liked my Pioneer HD non-DVR box... worked very well with Passport. But it didn't have the nuggets for MDN and the DVI output didn't play well with others. But at least it was BLACK and fit in wth the rest of my stuff, lol. I really resisted getting a DVR box for a long time just because the SA boxes are so freakin' ugly. Now I'm glad I swapped it out because the 8300HDC/ODN3.1 combo does work well for me.... thankfully my equipment cabinet has dark tinted glass, lol.

The software update I want now is for the box to magically turn into a box for any company other than Time Warner Cable.

I just found out that the March 15 channels are now going to be teh March 31 channels. :mad::mad::mad::mad:

And then at the end of April, we get 5 more garbage channels added. ABC Family HD, Animal Planet HD, The Learning Channel HD, Bravo HD, CNBC HD.

I just hope the Paint Drying HD, Grass Growing HD, Flies Reproducing HD and HSN HD are added at the end of May!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Be careful what you wish for: http://www.tvpredictions.com/newhd052308.htm

I've always wondered that.. Why does the box say Alt during the boot sequence? When I had an OCAP box in fall of 2007, it used to say OCAP the entire time. Now it says OCAP part of the time and Alt the rest of the time.My guess is that the display is showing AIT: Application Information Table. It pertains to downloadable interactive OCAP applications, e.g., Navigator.

I actually liked my Pioneer HD non-DVR box... worked very well with Passport. But it didn't have the nuggets for MDN and the DVI output didn't play well with others. But at least it was BLACK and fit in wth the rest of my stuff, lol. I really resisted getting a DVR box for a long time just because the SA boxes are so freakin' ugly. Now I'm glad I swapped it out because the 8300HDC/ODN3.1 combo does work well for me.... thankfully my equipment cabinet has dark tinted glass, lol.

Well I understand the TWC will be getting the Samsung DVR which is black, so you can swap that Silver 8300 out soon. I wonder if the Samsung DVRs will have a larger Hard Drive it is so stupid that they are still making 8300s with only 160g drive. With all this HD programing available now my drive is always full.

Well I understand the TWC will be getting the Samsung DVR which is black, so you can swap that Silver 8300 out soon. I wonder if the Samsung DVRs will have a larger Hard Drive it is so stupid that they are still making 8300s with only 160g drive. With all this HD programing available now my drive is always full.

I'd be first in line the moment word was out that they were available here.

I actually liked my Pioneer HD non-DVR box... worked very well with Passport. But it didn't have the nuggets for MDN and the DVI output didn't play well with others. But at least it was BLACK and fit in wth the rest of my stuff, lol. I really resisted getting a DVR box for a long time just because the SA boxes are so freakin' ugly. Now I'm glad I swapped it out because the 8300HDC/ODN3.1 combo does work well for me.... thankfully my equipment cabinet has dark tinted glass, lol.

Really? I've always liked the looks of the SA equipment. I think it has a sleek, modern look(despite the outdated insides of small hard drives and not enough memory for ODN). I've always loved the way the 8300HD looks since the 8000 boxes were ass-ugly. I was excited when I was upgraded to the 8300HD from the 8000(SD) I had since 2004. Also I love the way the 4250HDC looks. It has almost the same look as the 8300, except smaller and in black.

The Pioneer boxes not so much. I hated the lack of buttons on the front. All of SA's boxes have Guide, Info, Settings, Exit, List, Select on the front. It comes in handy like today when my remote batteries died and I didn't want to get new ones until I did my errands later.

For the record, I don't like the way that 85xx series SA/Cisco box or the Samsung box looks. It looks to generic. Almost like I'd be asking "which one is the cable box" if it were next to a DVD player.

I'd be first in line the moment word was out that they were available here.

No thanks. I have a MDN DVR. I won't trade that until I'm forced. And even then I'll put up a big fight. :D

Having had a ODN DVR in the past, I can totally understand the desire to have something different. That was with ODN 2-something.

About that Pioneer box. I had one briefly when we were still on Passport. Did your Pioneer HD box stretch the program guide on HD channels? My box used to stretch the guide, banner, menus on HD channels and it was pretty annoying since the low res guide looked distorted and funky. That was a peeve of mine.

...The Pioneer boxes not so much. I hated the lack of buttons on the front. All of SA's boxes have Guide, Info, Settings, Exit, List, Select on the front. It comes in handy like today when my remote batteries died and I didn't want to get new ones until I did my errands later.

For the record, I don't like the way that 85xx series SA/Cisco box or the Samsung box looks. It looks to generic. Almost like I'd be asking "which one is the cable box" if it were next to a DVD player.

I don't think I have ever touched the buttons on the front of either box (OK... I tried to activate the Vol+/- Ch+ diagnostics yesterday... unsuccessfully). They are behind glass doors that usually open only to insert a disk in the BD player or DVDR. Everything else happens via the Harmony One.

Blending in with the other components is my goal... don't want any of them to stand out. Just my personal preference.

Really? I've always liked the looks of the SA equipment. I think it has a sleek, modern look(despite the outdated insides of small hard drives and not enough memory for ODN). I've always loved the way the 8300HD looks since the 8000 boxes were ass-ugly. I was excited when I was upgraded to the 8300HD from the 8000(SD) I had since 2004. Also I love the way the 4250HDC looks. It has almost the same look as the 8300, except smaller and in black.

The Pioneer boxes not so much. I hated the lack of buttons on the front. All of SA's boxes have Guide, Info, Settings, Exit, List, Select on the front. It comes in handy like today when my remote batteries died and I didn't want to get new ones until I did my errands later.

For the record, I don't like the way that 85xx series SA/Cisco box or the Samsung box looks. It looks to generic. Almost like I'd be asking "which one is the cable box" if it were next to a DVD player.



No thanks. I have a MDN DVR. I won't trade that until I'm forced. And even then I'll put up a big fight. :D

Having had a ODN DVR in the past, I can totally understand the desire to have something different. That was with ODN 2-something.

About that Pioneer box. I had one briefly when we were still on Passport. Did your Pioneer HD box stretch the program guide on HD channels? My box used to stretch the guide, banner, menus on HD channels and it was pretty annoying since the low res guide looked distorted and funky. That was a peeve of mine.

You'll trade in your MDN DVR when TWC starts deploying MPEG-4. MPEG-4 does allow for more HD channels. Only the next gen boxes support MPEG-4 so yeah. MPEG-4 might not be for a while.

Well I understand the TWC will be getting the Samsung DVR which is black, so you can swap that Silver 8300 out soon. I wonder if the Samsung DVRs will have a larger Hard Drive it is so stupid that they are still making 8300s with only 160g drive. With all this HD programing available now my drive is always full.

So your division will finally get it. I hear it can hold up to 35 to 40 hours of HD. Could be a sign of a 320 GB HDD. I would love to get one since my 8300HDC acts wierd even with ODN3. Don't know when San Diego is getting one. They have the manual for the SMT-H3050 but I don't know if they have deployed them. My MDN 3250HD is acting up on the VOD menus. I have MDN 2.4.4-14. I hope TWC makes Navigator as good if not better than Passport and then sends it out to all the SARA users.

You'll trade in your MDN DVR when TWC starts deploying MPEG-4. MPEG-4 does allow for more HD channels. Only the next gen boxes support MPEG-4 so yeah. MPEG-4 might not be for a while.

We don't even have SDV in our entire market yet. By the time we get MPEG-4, I'll probably be trading in my then 8 year old 8300HD due to the fact the hard drive is completely burnt out! :D:D

My MDN 3250HD is acting up on the VOD menus. I have MDN 2.4.4-14. I hope TWC makes Navigator as good if not better than Passport and then sends it out to all the SARA users.

I'm not sure if that is the MDN with the new colors(which I have, called 2.4.1) but I've found the new colors MDN to be more reliable on VOD than the ODN with the old blue colors. Also, the VOD screens are re-designed with the newer MDN and actually look better than Passport.

Only once I had a problem on the MDN box with a "not available" message, which I was able to correct by changing the channel and going back to that VOD channel.

I'm really impressed with the newest MDN. This is coming from a person who a year ago wanted navigator wiped off the face of the earth and considered canceling when my Passport box was hit.

If those Samsung boxes perform well and TWC can make an even more improved Digital Navigator(with longer show descriptions, HDTV/Letterbox/Dolby Digital tags, keyword search, interactive TV, ability to edit channels out of guide/chan+/- list) and the hardware and head ends can deliver(SDV, MPEG-4, VOD, enhanced TV) I can see TWC actually being worth the money for once.

I've always wondered that.. Why does the box say Alt during the boot sequence? When I had an OCAP box in fall of 2007, it used to say OCAP the entire time. Now it says OCAP part of the time and Alt the rest of the time.

I think that it is trying to say "Wait", but "W" does not fit on a seven-segment display. One thing I am annoyed with at the OCAP front panel extension standard is that it requires a colon surrounded on both sides by two seven-segment digits on each side if one chooses to implement a front panel. Instead, if I designed this extension, I would have required that the display be capable of displaying anything the above requirements could display, but would not have required seven segment displays or the hardware colon if something better could have been used, like a dot matrix display.

If I was programming AXIOM (the program that translates OCAP programs from Java to native machine code on Scientific Atlanta and Cisco boxes), I would have instead displayed "LOAd" on the seven segment display instead of " AIt" or "OCAP" when AXIOM was loading because most end-users would be befuddled about what "OCAP" meant. Displaying "boot" would have been inconvenient for the cable technician troubleshooting a failing box. Since "boot" disappears once the AXIOM OCAP Middleware splash screen displays on the TV and is replaced by "OCAP" or " AIt", this probably means that "boot" is used to indicate that the box is still loading the PowerTV OS from ROM. Therefore, something else is needed to help the technician diagnose a box that crashes in a later stage of booting without having to hook it up to some sort of monitor or TV. I believe that "OCAP" and " AIt" do this job, but they confuse the customer.

We don't even have SDV in our entire market yet. By the time we get MPEG-4, I'll probably be trading in my then 8 year old 8300HD due to the fact the hard drive is completely burnt out! :D:D



I'm not sure if that is the MDN with the new colors(which I have, called 2.4.1) but I've found the new colors MDN to be more reliable on VOD than the ODN with the old blue colors. Also, the VOD screens are re-designed with the newer MDN and actually look better than Passport.

Only once I had a problem on the MDN box with a "not available" message, which I was able to correct by changing the channel and going back to that VOD channel.

I'm really impressed with the newest MDN. This is coming from a person who a year ago wanted navigator wiped off the face of the earth and considered canceling when my Passport box was hit.

If those Samsung boxes perform well and TWC can make an even more improved Digital Navigator(with longer show descriptions, HDTV/Letterbox/Dolby Digital tags, keyword search, interactive TV, ability to edit channels out of guide/chan+/- list) and the hardware and head ends can deliver(SDV, MPEG-4, VOD, enhanced TV) I can see TWC actually being worth the money for once.


nickdawg,

ODN v3.1.0_11 can show letterbox in the description. NBC channels seem to mention letterbox HD instead of HD. Thats one nice thing of ODN. It will list shows as HD if they are in HD. MDN doesn't have that capability yet so thats an ODN exclusive. Still no Dolby Digital tags. The guide data is improved a little but I still have hope for Navigator getting better.

Navigator Keyword Search is being developed for a future update. This means it could be next on the list for big things. Although no date or division has announced it yet, when do you think it will be first avalible? What division do you think will be first to get it?

This is just speculation, but I am going to say sometime before June 12. (The universal cutoff date for digital TV, at least as of now.) Obviously, the two aren't related to each other, but I just "have a feeling." I think the first division to get it will be San Diego. It will probably go to MDN boxes first, than OCAP. I think by around mid October, all divisions will have it.

Too soon? Too late? What do you think?

Jack


What exactly is keyword search anyway? We can find programs by keyword here....

I'd be first in line the moment word was out that they were available here.

Same here. The samsung's look much better; looks to be a higher quality standard too. I want something built to run OCAP.

Now all we need is ODN 3

Scratch that. Box rebooted at 1 AM with ODN 3.1.0_7.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

I'll report later!

Scratch that. Box rebooted at 1 AM with ODN 3.1.0_7.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

I'll report later!

Wonder why the "_7". That version wasn't active here very long before _11 replaced it. Maybe its a required upgrade path? Can't remember exactly what changed between them now... it's been a while.

It looks like NAVIGATOR is finally on the path to becomeing a decent guide. Stilll on SARA here. I WANT MY NAVIGATOR (the new one) lol

1.) What's the proportion of any given population with cable TV that do not have digital service,(Just channels 2-99) when weighted with people who have Digital Standard or higher? My belief is that if most people don't have or get the channels above 99, they don't want them

Why they clung to all the analogs for so long is still a mystery to me... BTW, in my market, it's 2-13 without a box, everything else is scrambled.

What exactly is keyword search anyway? We can find programs by keyword here....

That's exactly what it is,

With Keyword Search you can type in any word about a movie, show, or subject, and the IPG lists everything over the next several days to weeks related to the movie, show, or subject.

So if your IPG has keyword search and you were a fan of Al Pachino movies, using Keyword Search, if you keyed in the words "Al Pachino" you would get everything on the system related to the movies he was in.

You could search by a subject as well. If you were interested in any show related to food using Keyword Search, you could type in the word "Pizza" and any shows relating to the word Pizza scheduled in the next several days to weeks would show up in search results.

Passport had this. Navigator only allows Keyboard Searching by Title. In this case, only the names of shows are returned. If you want more advanced search types you have to go to specific categories in Navigator to find what you are looking for, and than observe the left side of the screen, with the option to look in sub categories for the names of shows and the times they are on. (In Category Searching, I find browsing by Theme in Navigator to be the best way to find information.)

Keyword Search gives results that you can narrow down very quickly.

Jack

I would think keyword search is coming this year since the TW website says that "longer program descriptions are coming to navigator later this year." Kinda goes hand in hand. Searching by keyword wouldn't be very effective without expanded program decriptions.

Why they clung to all the analogs for so long is still a mystery to me... BTW, in my market, it's 2-13 without a box, everything else is scrambled.

We have about 20 channels on Basic Cable. (No box needed.) You still need an analog box for Standard Cable, which in our market is channels 2-99. A lot of people who aren't into this need to understand that Basic Cable (at least in my market) is such a low level of service, that it almost doesn't even count as cable IMO. You we need the Standard Service (about 80 channels in most markets, to really count cable as cable with a box in most cases.)

Sorry for going OT. Back to Navigator.

Jack

Wonder why the "_7". That version wasn't active here very long before _11 replaced it. Maybe its a required upgrade path? Can't remember exactly what changed between them now... it's been a while.

Apparently. We had 2.4.10_11 for one day. We got changed to ODN 3 last night, one night after being upgraded to 2.4.10_11.

Well, I must've read the diagnostics wrong. Network version is 3.1.0_7, but ODN version is 3.1.0_11.

Digital cable requires a cable box, but since the charge for digital is for the whole house, it is of no real benefit to them to rent you more boxes, they already have you hooked.
Actually there is a "digital fee" added to the extra boxes you rent after the first (I think this is standard everywhere, but could be region dependant). /Dan

Well, I must've read the diagnostics wrong. Network version is 3.1.0_7, but ODN version is 3.1.0_11.

Then you're as up to date as Charlotte, San Diego & Kansas City. Haven't heard of anything newer.

What do you think so far? You have the same setup as I have... hope it works as well for you as it has for me.

Then you're as up to date as Charlotte, San Diego & Kansas City. Haven't heard of anything newer.

What do you think so far? You have the same setup as I have... hope it works as well for you as it has for me.

Yeah, it works pretty well. Some fixes were included in the one-day 2.4.10_11 update, but I'll include them here.


HDMI Bugs fixed
Can lock onto a resolution
Didn't lose recordings
End-playback background is nicer
Improved on demand
14 page diagnostic screen
vol +/- ch+ DIAG doesn't work any more
Finding programs seems a bit faster
Improved CallerID on TV
Small channel bar
All around better put together interface
Box boots faster
Box boots into 480i
Box displays OCAP > Ait > APP while booting
The box display changes as digits are entered
When stretching, a box comes up showing you what mode you are on (nice for the parents)
Nearest Tune
Series Priority
Not sure, but the box seems to run a little cooler
Didn't lose any channels
Haven't had to reboot yet
No ch. 998/999 diagnostics
The warm feeling waking up and seeing ODN 3


I recorded a little video of me showing off some basic functions, I might upload it later.

Yeah, it works pretty well. Some fixes were included in the one-day 2.4.10_11 update, but I'll include them here.


HDMI Bugs fixed
Can lock onto a resolution
Didn't lose recordings
End-playback background is nicer
Improved on demand
14 page diagnostic screen
vol +/- ch+ DIAG doesn't work any more
Finding programs seems a bit faster
Improved CallerID on TV
Small channel bar
All around better put together interface
Box boots faster
Box boots into 480i
Box displays OCAP > Ait > APP while booting
The box display changes as digits are entered
When stretching, a box comes up showing you what mode you are on (nice for the parents)
Nearest Tune
Series Priority
Not sure, but the box seems to run a little cooler
Didn't lose any channels
Haven't had to reboot yet
No ch. 998/999 diagnostics
The warm feeling waking up and seeing ODN 3

I recorded a little video of me showing off some basic functions, I might upload it later.

I have a 1 page "Set-Top Diagnostic" on channel 1611. Takes a while to load, then shows:

MAC Address
RF IP
Network Connectivity
RDC Power
FDC Power
Binding
Service Group
Stack Version
ODN Version
CableCard Version
I also have the following channels:
1901 MESG (always blank)
1986 NEWS (some basic 'gator instructions)
1987 NAVNEWS (always blank)

These channels can be direct accessed if you know the channel number, but they get skipped by CH+/CH-. They also show up in the fav channel setup list (along with any other "test" channels). You can add them as favorites and they will be included in a FAV scan, or you can just take a look-see in the fav list to see whats there.

I have a 1 page "Set-Top Diagnostic" on channel 1611. Takes a while to load, then shows:

MAC Address
RF IP
Network Connectivity
RDC Power
FDC Power
Binding
Service Group
Stack Version
ODN Version
CableCard Version
I also have the following channels:
1901 MESG (always blank)
1986 NEWS (some basic 'gator instructions)
1987 NAVNEWS (always blank)

These channels can be direct accessed if you know the channel number, but they get skipped by CH+/CH-. They also show up in the fav channel setup list (along with any other "test" channels). You can add them as favorites and they will be included in a FAV scan, or you can just take a look-see in the fav list to see whats there.
Hmmm.... Don't get any of those. I even turned off nearest tune, I thought that might be interfering with it.

By the way, what does " 'gator " mean?

Hmmm.... Don't get any of those. I even turned off nearest tune, I thought that might be interfering with it.

By the way, what does " 'gator " mean?

Navi"gator" ;)

Did you look through the top end of you favorites setup list to see what IS there?

Thanks for clearing that up. I'll look through the list in a little bit, I didn't have time to check last time.

Actually there is a "digital fee" added to the extra boxes you rent after the first (I think this is standard everywhere, but could be region dependant). /Dan

in my area there is a fee for the box, then another fee if you want the "guide"

in my area there is a fee for the box, then another fee if you want the "guide"

Huh? That makes zero sense. A box comes with the "guide", does it not?

Huh? That makes zero sense. A box comes with the "guide", does it not?

I once tried to argue the point that I shouldn't be charged a "DVR Service" fee since TWC is not providing the "service" at all and that once activated in essence the DVR was just a box like any other and all the programming necessary to be a DVR was part of the hardware not TWCs infrastructure.

This logic did not work in reducing my bill but it did work in confusing the CSR and throwing her off script. Which was fun anyway.

in my area there is a fee for the box, then another fee if you want the "guide"

You must have an extremely outdated price system. Back when Digital Cable was a new thing here in NE Ohio, they had the prices broken down, including one fee for the program guide. I don't know if anyone opted out of it or not, but they did have is as a sepatate charge in the package.

And the interesting thing is back then they called the Passport software the "TV Navigator" guide. I even have an instruction manual from when I got the DVR and the cover says "TV Navigator" yet there are pictures of Passport Echo menus inside and we had Passport at that time. :confused:

I once tried to argue the point that I shouldn't be charged a "DVR Service" fee since TWC is not providing the "service" at all and that once activated in essence the DVR was just a box like any other and all the programming necessary to be a DVR was part of the hardware not TWCs infrastructure.It's a bit like paying a local gang for protection, where the service provided is refraining from trashing your place of business and kicking the crap out of you :). For the DVR Service fee, your cable provider refrains from telling your DVR to stop recording.

I once tried to argue the point that I shouldn't be charged a "DVR Service" fee since TWC is not providing the "service" at all and that once activated in essence the DVR was just a box like any other and all the programming necessary to be a DVR was part of the hardware not TWCs infrastructure.

This logic did not work in reducing my bill but it did work in confusing the CSR and throwing her off script. Which was fun anyway.

Well, the way BHN prices it, you pay the rental for the box, and nothing more. Anyway, confusing the reps are fun. They will stumble and then just ask if they can put you on hold :p

Well, the way BHN prices it, you pay the rental for the box, and nothing more. Anyway, confusing the reps are fun. They will stumble and then just ask if they can put you on hold :pIf I'm interpreting the price list at mybrighthouse.com (http://cfl.mybrighthouse.com/products_and_pricing/prices/default.aspx) correctly, you get one HD box (DVR or not) rolled into your "Digital Cable with HD Service" charge of $63; additional boxes (DVR or not) will cost a $6.95/month lease fee each. For each DVR you take, you'll pay either a "DVR Service" fee of $7.95 or an "HD DVR Service" fee of $9.95. This is pretty much the same as what TWC is doing elsewhere, though I don't think that everyone bundles the price of leasing the first box into base service charges (Bright House cutely uses the term "SmartBox" instead of "Converter" :rolleyes:). What if you don't need one?

For comparison, you can see the San Diego TWC price list here (http://www.timewarnercable.com/SanDiego/support/ratespricing.html).

If I'm interpreting the price list at mybrighthouse.com (http://cfl.mybrighthouse.com/products_and_pricing/prices/default.aspx) correctly, you get one HD box (DVR or not) rolled into your "Digital Cable with HD Service" charge of $63; additional boxes (DVR or not) will cost a $6.95/month lease fee each. For each DVR you take, you'll pay either a "DVR Service" fee of $7.95 or an "HD DVR Service" fee of $9.95. This is pretty much the same as what TWC is doing elsewhere, though I don't think that everyone bundles the price of leasing the first box into base service charges (Bright House cutely uses the term "SmartBox" instead of "Converter" :rolleyes:). What if you don't need one?

For comparison, you can see the San Diego TWC price list here (http://www.timewarnercable.com/SanDiego/support/ratespricing.html).The first note I think by "guide" he meant DVR service. I see in San Diego (and Palm Springs only other place I could find) has something called a "Digital Intro Fee" of $2. That might be the additional charge for extra digital boxes. Other than that I do not know what that means. Ours is called "Digital Programming Fee" and is tacked on to the rent of the extra digital boxes after the first one (DVR or not) + $10 for DVR service for DVRs. Here is our price guide and pretty standard around TWC SoCal Region (L.A. area). http://www.timewarnerla.com/pricingGuides/PDFs_2009/0020E-PL-0109.pdf See left lower side of second page.

/Dan

The first note I think by "guide" he meant DVR service. I see in San Diego (and Palm Springs only other place I could find) has something called a "Digital Intro Fee" of $2. That might be the additional charge for extra digital boxes. Other than that I do not know what that means. Ours is called "Digital Programming Fee" and is tacked on to the rent of the extra digital boxes after the first one (DVR or not) + $10 for DVR service for DVRs. Here is our price guide and pretty standard around TWC SoCal Region (L.A. area). http://www.timewarnerla.com/pricingGuides/PDFs_2009/0020E-PL-0109.pdf See left lower side of second page.

/DanTWC here used to have a separate guide service fee ($2/month) which was included in virtually every package, so they removed it. Recently they added that $2/month "Digital Intro Service" fee, which is mysterious. There's a "Digital Intro Pack", but it overlaps some other digital service "packs". I think that they just wanted to hike their fees by $2/month so they created an obscure line-item to cover it :). It is not, however, the fee for additional boxes. You pay a lease fee for every box, though Bright House rolls the lease of the first box into a base service package charge. I think that a Bright House customer with two HD DVRs would see a $6.95 lease fee for the extra one and a $9.95 HD DVR Service fee for each ($25.85 total).

Anyone have an MDN version greater than 2.4.4_15? We in San Diego still have 2.4.4_14 (what the heck are they waiting for anyway?)

2.4.4_14? :eek::eek::eek:

Why not just upgrade to ODN 3? Seems pointless to keep making more versions of a failure(the ODN 2 series).

Still don't know why they haven't done it here yet. C'mon TWC Northeast Ohio!! You can 'test' ODN 3 on the 4250HDC series of boxes. Promise I won't be mad if my box gets bricked!! :D (it isn't a DVR)

2.4.4_14? :eek::eek::eek:

Why not just upgrade to ODN 3? Seems pointless to keep making more versions of a failure(the ODN 2 series).

Still don't know why they haven't done it here yet. C'mon TWC Northeast Ohio!! You can 'test' ODN 3 on the 4250HDC series of boxes. Promise I won't be mad if my box gets bricked!! :D (it isn't a DVR)

I think you misread the comment you responded to. The person you are responding to wrote "MDN 2.4.4_14". I think what tripped you up is that I think that the person got the dashes and the underscores mixed up. I think what that person meant to write was MDN 2.4.4-14. MDN usually uses a dash, while ODN uses an underscore, so it is understandable why you apparently misread the version.

I think you misread the comment you responded to. The person you are responding to wrote "MDN 2.4.4_14". I think what tripped you up is that I think that the person got the dashes and the underscores mixed up. I think what that person meant to write was MDN 2.4.4-14. MDN usually uses a dash, while ODN uses an underscore, so it is understandable why you apparently misread the version.

:o I see. It gets confusing when they're running different numbers for different versions. That, and the only thing on my mind lately is ODN 3. I'm almost obseeesd with it. All this talk, I want to see it!!!!

If I'm interpreting the price list at mybrighthouse.com (http://cfl.mybrighthouse.com/products_and_pricing/prices/default.aspx) correctly, you get one HD box (DVR or not) rolled into your "Digital Cable with HD Service" charge of $63; additional boxes (DVR or not) will cost a $6.95/month lease fee each. For each DVR you take, you'll pay either a "DVR Service" fee of $7.95 or an "HD DVR Service" fee of $9.95. This is pretty much the same as what TWC is doing elsewhere, though I don't think that everyone bundles the price of leasing the first box into base service charges (Bright House cutely uses the term "SmartBox" instead of "Converter" :rolleyes:). What if you don't need one?

For comparison, you can see the San Diego TWC price list here (http://www.timewarnercable.com/SanDiego/support/ratespricing.html).

I see.... well I guess my underlying point was that you can't get them separately, they are automatically bundled.

:o I see. It gets confusing when they're running different numbers for different versions. That, and the only thing on my mind lately is ODN 3. I'm almost obseeesd with it. All this talk, I want to see it!!!!

I hear that. ODN 3 rocks... I had a couple Facebook friends write on my wall telling me we got upgraded. Keep in mind, they're technical no-body(s) and they still think it's awesome.

I hear that. ODN 3 rocks... I had a couple Facebook friends write on my wall telling me we got upgraded. Keep in mind, they're technical no-body(s) and they still think it's awesome.

I know. I had serious thoughts about getting rid of a MDN DVR once ODN 3 comes! :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: From what I've heard, I'd like features like that next channel tune(something I desperately miss from Passport), the new color scheme and the improved response time.

OK, maybe I was kidding a bit about getting rid of the MDN box. ;)

But if ODN 3 on the 8300HDC gets keyword search functions, I'll be kissing that 8300HD goodbye. I'll probably borrow Hookbill's chain(and change my signature)!

I see.... well I guess my underlying point was that you can't get them separately, they are automatically bundled.I know, but for some bizarre reason they insist on making that charge a separate line-item. For Bright House, it makes a little bit of sense, since they bundle the first "SmartBox" lease charge in with your base service package (again, what happens if you're using CableCARDs and don't need a box?), but in places like here where they don't, it's completely ridiculous. Maybe they're ashamed of listing a $17/month DVR lease fee (but not ashamed to charge you $17/month per DVR :rolleyes:).

I know. I had serious thoughts about getting rid of a MDN DVR once ODN 3 comes! :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: From what I've heard, I'd like features like that next channel tune(something I desperately miss from Passport), the new color scheme and the improved response time.

OK, maybe I was kidding a bit about getting rid of the MDN box. ;)

But if ODN 3 on the 8300HDC gets keyword search functions, I'll be kissing that 8300HD goodbye. I'll probably borrow Hookbill's chain(and change my signature)!

Both MDN and ODN will get the same features, just not at exactly the same times. (Or at least the big deal stuff like Keyword Search will come to all boxes) I don't think I have "Nearest Tune" on my MDN here in Milwaukee.

Here in my division, they have been upgrading the older boxes first. (The once Passport MDN's.) The newer OCAP's here get there updates like 2 months later it seems.

Could it be getting to a point where OCAP 3 (New Navigator Guide) improves the boxes so much that they now work almost as well and fast as the MDN's, if not better?

Jack

PS. What are the latest known version for OCAP and MDN?

PSS. (LOL!) I cannot believe that we are PRAISING Navigator now, compared to when this thread first started!!! WOW!!!

If I'm interpreting the price list at mybrighthouse.com (http://cfl.mybrighthouse.com/products_and_pricing/prices/default.aspx) correctly, you get one HD box (DVR or not) rolled into your "Digital Cable with HD Service" charge of $63; additional boxes (DVR or not) will cost a $6.95/month lease fee each. For each DVR you take, you'll pay either a "DVR Service" fee of $7.95 or an "HD DVR Service" fee of $9.95. This is pretty much the same as what TWC is doing elsewhere, though I don't think that everyone bundles the price of leasing the first box into base service charges (Bright House cutely uses the term "SmartBox" instead of "Converter" :rolleyes:). What if you don't need one?

For comparison, you can see the San Diego TWC price list here (http://www.timewarnercable.com/SanDiego/support/ratespricing.html).

in my area, the charge is the same for SD or HD DVR. When I got a HDTV, I took the SD DVR to the local TW office, they handed me a 8300SHD for no additional charge

in my area, the charge is the same for SD or HD DVR. When I got a HDTV, I took the SD DVR to the local TW office, they handed me a 8300SHD for no additional chargeYeah--the pricing is no longer different here, either. I suspect that they no longer purchase standard-def boxes, though. What's the point? Except for the difference in HDD size (80GB vs 160GB), the HD versions of the SA/Cisco boxes will have about the same cost of manufacture. Even with that difference, the quantity pricing won't be much lower, so the SD boxes are an extremely poor investment.

Interesting that Bright House still has different pricing for the DVR service charge.

Yeah--the pricing is no longer different here, either. I suspect that they no longer purchase standard-def boxes, though. What's the point? Except for the difference in HDD size (80GB vs 160GB), the HD versions of the SA/Cisco boxes will have about the same cost of manufacture. Even with that difference, the quantity pricing won't be much lower, so the SD boxes are an extremely poor investment.

Interesting that Bright House still has different pricing for the DVR service charge.

The pricing had never been different here either, but that all changed at the beginning of March. HD-DVR service went up 2$.

Yeah--the pricing is no longer different here, either. I suspect that they no longer purchase standard-def boxes, though. What's the point? Except for the difference in HDD size (80GB vs 160GB), the HD versions of the SA/Cisco boxes will have about the same cost of manufacture. Even with that difference, the quantity pricing won't be much lower, so the SD boxes are an extremely poor investment.

Interesting that Bright House still has different pricing for the DVR service charge.

Here is the argument in favor of ordering SD boxes:

8300(C) series SD boxes have less outputs (e.g. only composite, S-video outputs, and IEEE 1394 vs. component, composite, S-video, IEEE 1394, and HDMI), less video and graphics RAM (16MB vs. 32MB), and less hard drive space (80GB vs. 160GB) compared to the 8300HD(C) series. When a cable company buys thousands or millions of these boxes, every penny saved with each SD box ordered vs. each HD box ordered can multiply to massive amounts of money.

This makes sense, but here is how I would counter that argument:

Are you sure that the money you save by ordering SD boxes will overcome costs of the extra work keeping track of all of that inventory, and the costs of lost customers that go to satellite when you are stocked full of SD boxes and have run out of HD boxes for the Christmas and Super Bowl rushes?

I have seen news stories about when TWC ran out of HD boxes during some Christmas rush before the 2008 Christmas rush because Cisco's sales offices shut down for that Christmas break. While this would make sense for enterprise-grade routers because not many people would want to try to install and set one of these up while short-handed by the Christmas break, it made no sense for cable companies which needed these cable boxes during the Christmas rush. I think that this could have caused TWC to realize the downside in ordering SD boxes, and why TWC now only orders HD boxes.

Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3Sdxw-VoxA

I uploaded a vid of me just going through some menus and stuff. Feel free to compare it to your setup.

So your division will finally get it. I hear it can hold up to 35 to 40 hours of HD. Could be a sign of a 320 GB HDD. I would love to get one since my 8300HDC acts wierd even with ODN3. Don't know when San Diego is getting one. They have the manual for the SMT-H3050 but I don't know if they have deployed them. My MDN 3250HD is acting up on the VOD menus. I have MDN 2.4.4-14. I hope TWC makes Navigator as good if not better than Passport and then sends it out to all the SARA users.

I understand that the Samsung DVR with the 320g drive is only available with Digital only tuner, if your division still has Analog Stations then only the 160g drive is available in the box that has both analog and digital tuners. Now that is dumb.

I do like the latest MDN and ODN colors, looks very Passportish.

So when do i move in next? that is sweet looking!:cool:

Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3Sdxw-VoxA

I uploaded a vid of me just going through some menus and stuff. Feel free to compare it to your setup.

That looks exactly like my current version of MDN. I'm completely in shock that ODN is running without the 4 foot tall channel banner. And that hideous blue color.

Unfortunately your response time still looks not as good as my MDN box. I dislike the Loading text on the DVR screen. Whenever I push List or Access Menu, the menu appears instantly without a delay. Other than that, the response time seems DRASTICALLY improved over ODN 2. Compared to that video, my ODN 2 box seems painfully slow.

Here is the argument in favor of ordering SD boxes:

8300(C) series SD boxes have less outputs (e.g. only composite, S-video outputs, and IEEE 1394 vs. component, composite, S-video, IEEE 1394, and HDMI), less video and graphics RAM (16MB vs. 32MB), and less hard drive space (80GB vs. 160GB) compared to the 8300HD(C) series. When a cable company buys thousands or millions of these boxes, every penny saved with each SD box ordered vs. each HD box ordered can multiply to massive amounts of money.

This makes sense, but here is how I would counter that argument:

Are you sure that the money you save by ordering SD boxes will overcome costs of the extra work keeping track of all of that inventory, and the costs of lost customers that go to satellite when you are stocked full of SD boxes and have run out of HD boxes for the Christmas and Super Bowl rushes?

I have seen news stories about when TWC ran out of HD boxes during some Christmas rush before the 2008 Christmas rush because Cisco's sales offices shut down for that Christmas break. While this would make sense for enterprise-grade routers because not many people would want to try to install and set one of these up while short-handed by the Christmas break, it made no sense for cable companies which needed these cable boxes during the Christmas rush. I think that this could have caused TWC to realize the downside in ordering SD boxes, and why TWC now only orders HD boxes.

100% HD boxes also means that they can stop simulcasting digital SD & HD versions of the same channel... since you need a box for either one, just send out the HD version and let the box sort it out for different TVs.

100% HD boxes also means that they can stop simulcasting digital SD & HD versions of the same channel... since you need a box for either one, just send out the HD version and let the box sort it out for different TVs.

Nope. Some SD channels are still needed even with HD duplicates.

First, what happens when some channel like TBS or TNT decides to use stretch-o-vision on old SD content? You want to watch or record the SD version when that happens.

Second, when watching an HD channel on the secondary output (which I believe outputs to the RF out, S-Video out, and the only dedicated composite video out), it is always letterboxed and cannot be zoomed in to fill the screen, at least during the last time I visited someone who switched to RF output because he could not figure out why the component out did not work. (It turned out to be a failed component video cable.) Since the only dedicated composite out on the 8300HDC is on the secondary out and Navigator and Passport Echo cannot switch the primary output between component and composite mode, this could mean permanent letterboxing for those unlucky enough to be stuck with an SDTV without component input. This could be disastrous for viewers with old TVs if the channel tries to transmit an SD-only letterbox movie. These customers need SD versions of the channels in order to maximize their viewing pleasure.

In short, cable companies must continue to give both HD and SD versions of the same channel when they exist so that the customers can max out their TVs with the correct version.

I understand that the Samsung DVR with the 320g drive is only available with Digital only tuner, if your division still has Analog Stations then only the 160g drive is available in the box that has both analog and digital tuners. Now that is dumb.

I do like the latest MDN and ODN colors, looks very Passportish.

Are there plans for KC, MO to distribute the Samsung SMT-H3090.

Nope. Some SD channels are still needed even with HD duplicates.

First, what happens when some channel like TBS or TNT decides to use stretch-o-vision on old SD content? You want to watch or record the SD version when that happens.

That would be the perfect reason to FORCE networks into ending the practive of stretchovision. If you're doing a center cut downconversion, you cannot stretch a picture(as it makes no sense to cut the sides off a streched 4:3 picture). Although I would not be willing to place a bet that TBS or TNT WOULDN'T try that! :rolleyes:

Second, when watching an HD channel on the secondary output (which I believe outputs to the RF out, S-Video out, and the only dedicated composite video out), it is always letterboxed and cannot be zoomed in to fill the screen, at least during the last time I visited someone who switched to RF output because he could not figure out why the component out did not work. (It turned out to be a failed component video cable.) Since the only dedicated composite out on the 8300HDC is on the secondary out and Navigator and Passport Echo cannot switch the primary output between component and composite mode, this could mean permanent letterboxing for those unlucky enough to be stuck with an SDTV without component input. This could be disastrous for viewers with old TVs if the channel tries to transmit an SD-only letterbox movie. These customers need SD versions of the channels in order to maximize their viewing pleasure.

In short, cable companies must continue to give both HD and SD versions of the same channel when they exist so that the customers can max out their TVs with the correct version.

That's 100% true with both the 8300HD and 4250HDC. The 8300HD was exactly the same with Passport as well. I know this all too well. See, I decided to get a HD box for a SDTV set in my house that had a poor performing Pioneer MDN SD only box. Not wanting another one of those POS, I ordered a HDTV box(which is connected via RF on channel 4). ALL the HD channels output in letterbox only!! Oh how PISSED I was to see that. I was hoping for a CECB style variable output(as I prefer FULL FRAME on 4:3 sets) plus it is annoying when SDTV programming is on inside a virtual picture frame :mad:. Unless SA updates their box/software, what sounds like a perfect solution will not be possible.

I was watching "Becker" via UHD today and I saw an example of a "double letterbox" image. A commercial for In Plain Sight was shown in windowbox on the HD channel(bars on four sides) bit on this SDTV I had bars on four sides from the network PLUS two bars from the STB, literally making the picture a postage stamp. Viewers hate regular letterboxing. If they watched that, they'd be even more pissed.

Nope. Some SD channels are still needed even with HD duplicates.

First, what happens when some channel like TBS or TNT decides to use stretch-o-vision on old SD content? You want to watch or record the SD version when that happens.

Second, when watching an HD channel on the secondary output (which I believe outputs to the RF out, S-Video out, and the only dedicated composite video out), it is always letterboxed and cannot be zoomed in to fill the screen, at least during the last time I visited someone who switched to RF output because he could not figure out why the component out did not work. (It turned out to be a failed component video cable.) Since the only dedicated composite out on the 8300HDC is on the secondary out and Navigator and Passport Echo cannot switch the primary output between component and composite mode, this could mean permanent letterboxing for those unlucky enough to be stuck with an SDTV without component input. This could be disastrous for viewers with old TVs if the channel tries to transmit an SD-only letterbox movie. These customers need SD versions of the channels in order to maximize their viewing pleasure.

In short, cable companies must continue to give both HD and SD versions of the same channel when they exist so that the customers can max out their TVs with the correct version.

I used an HD box for 4 years on my 32" Panasonic Tau SDTV. (Great TV... most people thought it WAS an HD set). Always watched the HD version of channels on that TV. Double letterbox was generally only an issue when watching the SD version of the channel... if the content is widescreen the HD channel normally carries it as such. Commercials are the big offenders there, and I doubt that it would be a big source of consumer complaints. If it really was an issue to a viewer, the box WILL zoom in this situation (filling the 16:9 letterbox, not the full 4:3).

People have gotten used to seeing lots of letterboxed content on thier SD TVs... a huge percentage of primetime network programming is already letterboxed on the SD channels. Watching a letterboxed version of the HD channel would provide the exact same experience.

Fortunately, TBS & TNT are the only nets that stretch pre-broadcast on a regular basis, but even they would look exactly the same in that regard whether they were viewed on a widescreeen TV or letterboxed on a 4:3 screen.

That would be the perfect reason to FORCE networks into ending the practive of stretchovision. If you're doing a center cut downconversion, you cannot stretch a picture(as it makes no sense to cut the sides off a streched 4:3 picture). Although I would not be willing to place a bet that TBS or TNT WOULDN'T try that! :rolleyes:



That's 100% true with both the 8300HD and 4250HDC. The 8300HD was exactly the same with Passport as well. I know this all too well. See, I decided to get a HD box for a SDTV set in my house that had a poor performing Pioneer MDN SD only box. Not wanting another one of those POS, I ordered a HDTV box(which is connected via RF on channel 4). ALL the HD channels output in letterbox only!! Oh how PISSED I was to see that. I was hoping for a CECB style variable output(as I prefer FULL FRAME on 4:3 sets) plus it is annoying when SDTV programming is on inside a virtual picture frame :mad:. Unless SA updates their box/software, what sounds like a perfect solution will not be possible.

I was watching "Becker" via UHD today and I saw an example of a "double letterbox" image. A commercial for In Plain Sight was shown in windowbox on the HD channel(bars on four sides) bit on this SDTV I had bars on four sides from the network PLUS two bars from the STB, literally making the picture a postage stamp. Viewers hate regular letterboxing. If they watched that, they'd be even more pissed.

I think that SARA is capable of switching the primary output between component and composite mode, but nobody else's software is capable of doing this because this is a non-issue if SD variants of channels are provided, and most cable companies do that.

Anyone have an MDN version greater than 2.4.4_15? We in San Diego still have 2.4.4_14 (what the heck are they waiting for anyway?)

Since you people like to complain about semantics, let's try this again (corrections).

Anyone have an MDN version greater than 2.4.4-15? We in San Diego still have 2.4.4-14 (what the heck are they waiting for anyway?). I have a legacy 8300HD box.

Since you people like to complain about semantics, let's try this again (corrections).

Anyone have an MDN version greater than 2.4.4-15? We in San Diego still have 2.4.4-14 (what the heck are they waiting for anyway?). I have a legacy 8300HD box.


I think right now for MDN 2.4.4-15 is the highest. Has anyone heard or seen different?

Jack

I understand that the Samsung DVR with the 320g drive is only available with Digital only tuner, if your division still has Analog Stations then only the 160g drive is available in the box that has both analog and digital tuners. Now that is dumb.

I do like the latest MDN and ODN colors, looks very Passportish.

with a large enough order, I bet a 320 version with both types of turners would suddenly become available

I won't go into the long description I posted over in the External Drive... It Works thread.

I lost all my recorded shows when we (KCMO) moved to ODN 3.1.0_11.
Another possible side effect is external drive use.

I am currently testing/swapping, etc., but my 8300HDC cannot write to my external drive combo. Interestingly though, another TWCKC subscriber with the same setup is having no issues.

I still have to try formatting the external drive to my PC, then trying again with the HDC. Hopefully that will do the trick.

One other side effect I've noticed since moving to 3.1.0_11.
When going into "Settings" then "Devices" under "Audio Output" my selection of Dolby Digital never sticks. It always reverts back to HDMI either when the plasma powers off/on or the HDC reboots. Have not tried to see if the selection sticks when just turning the HDC off/on.

Annoying as heck when you're connected to a receiver.

Skid

I won't go into the long description I posted over in the External Drive... It Works thread.

I lost all my recorded shows when we (KCMO) moved to ODN 3.1.0_11.
Another possible side effect is external drive use.

I am currently testing/swapping, etc., but my 8300HDC cannot write to my external drive combo. Interestingly though, another TWCKC subscriber with the same setup is having no issues.

I still have to try formatting the external drive to my PC, then trying again with the HDC. Hopefully that will do the trick.

One other side effect I've noticed since moving to 3.1.0_11.
When going into "Settings" then "Devices" under "Audio Output" my selection of Dolby Digital never sticks. It always reverts back to HDMI either when the plasma powers off/on or the HDC reboots. Have not tried to see if the selection sticks when just turning the HDC off/on.

Annoying as heck when you're connected to a receiver.

Skid

The audio issue is not the norm for 3.1.0_11. Mine has held on DD through at least 3 power cycles/reboots.

The audio issue is not the norm for 3.1.0_11. Mine has held on DD through at least 3 power cycles/reboots.

Not being a smartarse here, but is there anything "special" you are doing?
I go into "Settings", then "Devices", change the audio output format from HDMI to DD, then press "Exit".

I assume you are following the same steps?
A real head-scratcher for sure. I may have to make a call to TWC. *sigh*

Skid

Not being a smartarse here, but is there anything "special" you are doing?
I go into "Settings", then "Devices", change the audio output format from HDMI to DD, then press "Exit".

I assume you are following the same steps?
A real head-scratcher for sure. I may have to make a call to TWC. *sigh*

Skid

Yeah... that's about it. I think you may have to use "C" to exit and store. Maybe just "Exit" doesn't store it? Some higher level settings behave that way, not 100% sure about that one, I'm at work right now.

I use the digital connection to the AVR as well, but my video connection is HDMI. Is your video HDMI or Component? Maybe there's difference there.

I think right now for MDN 2.4.4-15 is the highest. Has anyone heard or seen different?

Jack

BHN in Orlando pushed out MDN 2.4.4-16 recently.

Yeah... that's about it. I think you may have to use "C" to exit and store. Maybe just "Exit" doesn't store it? Some higher level settings behave that way, not 100% sure about that one, I'm at work right now.

I use the digital connection to the AVR as well, but my video connection is HDMI. Is your video HDMI or Component? Maybe there's difference there.Actually, for this menu "C" means cancel. The "A" button is used for accept. "Select" also seems to work.

Yeah... that's about it. I think you may have to use "C" to exit and store. Maybe just "Exit" doesn't store it? Some higher level settings behave that way, not 100% sure about that one, I'm at work right now.

I use the digital connection to the AVR as well, but my video connection is HDMI. Is your video HDMI or Component? Maybe there's difference there.

Actually, for this menu "C" means cancel. The "A" button is used for accept. "Select" also seems to work.

This sounds like an area where MDN is still superior. First off, MDN doesn't even have a "Devices" setting(I find it pointless to try to 'recapture' the Quick/General Settings method when everything else is laid out in the other categories fine.) Also, MDN uses SELECT to save a setting. Once you press select, it takes you out of the sub-menu you chose and back to the main list of options.

MDN works similar to the Passport/SARA way of A = Accept, C = Cancel.

I have noticed that on ODN if you choose an option and press select, there is no indication that it is saved.

100% HD boxes also means that they can stop simulcasting digital SD & HD versions of the same channel... since you need a box for either one, just send out the HD version and let the box sort it out for different TVs.
Stopping digital and analog SD duplicates would be sufficient. Others pointed out some reasons to keep both SD & HD digital channels. Also, many of our HD channels are East Coast time zone and shows are on funny times for us (sometimes good/sometimes bad) so having the SD at proper schedule is nice. /Dan

Yeah... that's about it. I think you may have to use "C" to exit and store. Maybe just "Exit" doesn't store it? Some higher level settings behave that way, not 100% sure about that one, I'm at work right now.

I use the digital connection to the AVR as well, but my video connection is HDMI. Is your video HDMI or Component? Maybe there's difference there.

Yep, HDMI from the 8300 straight to the display, bypassing the receiver. Optical from the 8300 to the receiver.

Just got home, a TWC CSR "zapped" my box, the setting still didn't stick, and still no external drive support. I'm going to try formatting the drive to my PC then try again with the 8300HDC.

Thanks for the help anyway.
Skid

None of my series recordings are working since the time change on Sunday. I have them all set to record at a specific time using the Air Time option in Series Manager. If I set Air Time to All Showings the recordings get scheduled. This is on my 8300HD, MDN 2.4.4-15, and yes, I've rebooted :D

Jim

Actually, for this menu "C" means cancel. The "A" button is used for accept. "Select" also seems to work.

Thanks for checking... as I noted I was at work. Its inconsistent but some of the ODN menus DO use "C" for Save/Exit. Whatever the button, my point was that it probably wasn't just the "Exit" button, which you confirmed. That "Devices" menu is by far the most incongruent element of the whole interface.

Yep, HDMI from the 8300 straight to the display, bypassing the receiver. Optical from the 8300 to the receiver.

Just got home, a TWC CSR "zapped" my box, the setting still didn't stick, and still no external drive support. I'm going to try formatting the drive to my PC then try again with the 8300HDC.

Thanks for the help anyway.
Skid

Strange... wonder now if your or my experience is the "normal" one. That screen is so different from the rest of ODN... I wonder if it belongs to a different level of software/firmware that ODN just accesses... maybe we have different firmware versions in our boxes.

Regardless.... mine is OK and I think I better not monkey with it, lol.

None of my series recordings are working since the time change on Sunday. I have them all set to record at a specific time using the Air Time option in Series Manager. If I set Air Time to All Showings the recordings get scheduled. This is on my 8300HD, MDN 2.4.4-15, and yes, I've rebooted :D

Jim

Wow, strange. My box has handled the time change perfectly. ODN 3.1.0_11
My box never even rebooted throughout the change, it just kicked forward an hour.