Now there's an idea!

About the only ODN "feature" I'm curious about is what I have read is an intelligent series recording function... as in when there is a conflict and the series recording is a lower priority, it will automatically find the next instance of that specific episode and schedule it. This is something I have to do manually now.

Some guy posted he's getting a 3-090 in my market... I wonder if it will run 3.1.1.3???

Is 3.1.1_3 running in other OCAP boxes like 8300HDC? The sammie will likely be on the same rev... at least that's what happened here.

That recording feature does work (well) on my ODN version (3.1.0_11), but it also works on whatever MDN version we have in Charlotte as well. I was just talking to a friend yesterday that was surprised that their MDN box recorded In Plain Sight automatically on Monday after it missed the premier showing Sunday night due to conflict - even though the box is set to record new episodes only.

It IS a very nice feature that does work. Just make sure that all of your cable based shows that DO repeat are set with a lower priority than the network shows that don't have repeat premier showings. And don't forget about Primetime On-Demand and HD Showcase on Demand as a tool to resolve scheduling conflicts! I am amazed at how many TW subs here don't know about the free on-demand stuff at all... and when I tell them about it they are still apprehensive to use because they can't believe its free. For once TW gives us a true value added service and people just can't believe it, lol.

All of the missed recordings have been reported here in Charlotte (not on the latest rev), but nobody with a newer rev has had them long enough to report any problems... yet. I hope they don't though.
so far there's 4 people in the charlotte division that have reported missed recordings. RobbK, jcalabria, chuckf1, and myself. there's lots more folks than that active in the Charlotte thread (though its been kinda dead lately). i know there are at least 4 more people who reported they went out and got the 3090. but they havent been back to report any missed recordings. i myself havent missed any recordings since the final NCAA game. while jcalabria, chuckf1 are just now seeing missed recordings and poor RobbK seems to be having it worse than everyone. i wonder what the difference is.

i had to reboot my box this morning. Video was frozen on CBS. if i changed channels i got audio from the different channel but the vid was still a frozen image of CBS. i could open the recorded list and choose a program to watch and it was the same,the audio was the recorded program but the vid was still CBS. the reboot fixed it. so thats 1 spontaneous reboot and 1 manual reboot in 2 days for me.

so far there's 4 people in the charlotte division that have reported missed recordings. RobbK, jcalabria, chuckf1, and myself. there's lots more folks than that active in the Charlotte thread (though its been kinda dead lately). i know there are at least 4 more people who reported they went out and got the 3090. but they havent been back to report any missed recordings. i myself havent missed any recordings since the final NCAA game. while jcalabria, chuckf1 are just now seeing missed recordings and poor RobbK seems to be having it worse than everyone. i wonder what the difference is.

i had to reboot my box this morning. Video was frozen on CBS. if i changed channels i got audio from the different channel but the vid was still a frozen image of CBS. i could open the recorded list and choose a program to watch and it was the same,the audio was the recorded program but the vid was still CBS. the reboot fixed it. so thats 1 spontaneous reboot and 1 manual reboot in 2 days for me.

I had the frozen video a few times with 8300HDC - sometimes frozen (still)sometimes black, sometimes pink and sometimes green. :confused: Had it once on the 3090 so far (black). No spontaneous reboots. Manually rebooted once for black screen and once for Navigator menus disappearing.

I have a new box, one not mentioned here. What the heck is a 8240HDC? It looks identical to the 8300HD and since I got a new one in the crate with the power cord, component cables and instruction books, the instruction book says "Connecting the 8300HDC and 8240HDC DVR with Multi Stream Cable Card".

I have a new box, one not mentioned here. What the heck is a 8240HDC? It looks identical to the 8300HD and since I got a new one in the crate with the power cord, component cables and instruction books, the instruction book says "Connecting the 8300HDC and 8240HDC DVR with Multi Stream Cable Card".

I believe it is same as 8300HDC without an analog tuner. Means your system is 100% simulcast (not that you watch any of those basic SD channels anymore, anyway)

I believe it is same as 8300HDC without an analog tuner. Means your system is 100% simulcast (not that you watch any of those basic SD channels anymore, anyway)

Ahhh, that's what it is. AFAIK, all of the Navigator guide areas in TWC NE Ohio are all digital simulcast. Last time I checked, we didn't even have one analog channel on the lineup. The last one to go was the BS "community cable access" channel and the TWC local channel. Those are both digital now also, so I guess it is safe to use "digital only" boxes here.

The areas with SARA are still analog, so I guess these boxes won't migrate up there yet until they upgrade the digital and download Navigator in the ex-Adelphia area. Right now they're working full-speed on SDV, so I don't think Navigator or digital simulcast are high priority right now.

The 8240HDC has the same ODN 3.1.1_3 and works just like the 4250HDC. So far, much better than the 8300HD, since I have Nearest Tune enabled and the guide includes "HD" and "Letterbox" tags.

(not that you watch any of those basic SD channels anymore, anyway)

Don't I wish. We still have a way to go with the addition of SDV HD channels. We're getting 7 more channels in about 4 days. TLC, Animal, ABC Family:(, CNBC:mad:, Bravo, ESPN News:( and MLB TV:D:D. And in May we're getting: Discovery Science, National Geographic, CNN:D:D, F/X:D:D, FOX News:mad::mad::mad:, Golf:mad:.

For those of you who already have lots of HD channels I have a question: Did your TWC division take so long to add new channels? It seems we are only getting about 5-7 channels a MONTH. We're already on SDV, so why the heck aren't these channels lighting about at a rate of about 5 per WEEK.

Don't I wish. We still have a way to go with the addition of SDV HD channels. We're getting 7 more channels in about 4 days. TLC, Animal, ABC Family:(, CNBC:mad:, Bravo, ESPN News:( and MLB TV:D:D. And in May we're getting: Discovery Science, National Geographic, CNN:D:D, F/X:D:D, FOX News:mad::mad::mad:, Golf:mad:.

For those of you who already have lots of HD channels I have a question: Did your TWC division take so long to add new channels? It seems we are only getting about 5-7 channels a MONTH. We're already on SDV, so why the heck aren't these channels lighting about at a rate of about 5 per WEEK.

Thats about right on the addition rate... started last summer after SDV launched and has been relatively steady stream since. Keeps you looking at the "Channel Changes" page on website to see what next round will bring you! A-N-T-I-C-I-P-A-T-I-O-N, lol. Adding them all at once would be great for a bit, but you'd figure out which five you really watch pretty soon and then feel like TW wasn't doing anything. Adding them over time keeps you feeling like they are hard at work all the time, lol. Also gives them a chance to respond to any previously unknown RF issues in plant or even premise wiring without overloading staff with shutgun approach to adding new channels. Finally, if they added all of them at one time, all of the channel surfers eager to see what new would probably overload the SDV facilities, lol.

Last month we got seven additions... Science, FX, Travel, Outdoor, AMC, HBO West & SHO West... but overall we have been slowing down... there were no HD additions in March and all we have scheduled for May is HDNet moving to digital HD basic and Smithsonian HD taking its place on HD Tier. We actually lost an HD channel recently... sort of. HD Tier channel UHD had been running in clear QAM for several months (even got on direct connect to TV) but it got re-encrypted for HD Tier recently. I had gotten used to having it... what a tease, lol.

The cable and dish companies needing to negotiate contracts for new channels, SDV capability, and system capacity, all play a role in new channels, both SD and HD. They can't just plop channels onto a system without permission granted from the owner(s) of the station(s.)

Here in TWC Wisconsin,we have about 45-50 HD channels. Three years ago, we had less than 10! There has been a gradual but progressive trend for more HD content, since SDV was turned on in our area. Some TWC New York systems have about 70 channels. Others have as few as 25. The three factors above being a very important determination for how many channels any cable or dish provider has. TWC-Wisconsin seems to add about 3 new HD channels every 1-3 months. Here are the stations, according to the TWC-Wisconsin website that they are working on getting:

Game HD, Team HD, Familia, Inspiration Life, Smithsonian HD, MavTV HD, Nick Too, Ovation.

I would like to see Chiller HD, Spike TV HD, and a family member, I know, would love Tennis Channel HD. I would also like more On Demand programs in HD and ALL of the HBO/Showtime channels that I get in HD. (Currently, only the base HBO and Showtime are in HD, where I am.)

Jack

The cable and dish companies needing to negotiate contracts for new channels, SDV capability, and system capacity, all play a role in new channels, both SD and HD. They can't just plop channels onto a system without permission granted from the owner(s) of the station(s.)

Here in TWC Wisconsin,we have about 45-50 HD channels. Three years ago, we had less than 10! There has been a gradual but progressive trend for more HD content, since SDV was turned on in our area. Some TWC New York systems have about 70 channels. Others have as few as 25. The three factors above being a very important determination for how many channels any cable or dish provider has. TWC-Wisconsin seems to add about 3 new HD channels every 1-3 months. Here are the stations, according to the TWC-Wisconsin website that they are working on getting:

Game HD, Team HD, Familia, Inspiration Life, Smithsonian HD, MavTV HD, Nick Too, Ovation.

I would like to see Chiller HD, Spike TV HD, and a family member, I know, would love Tennis Channel HD. I would also like more On Demand programs in HD and ALL of the HBO/Showtime channels that I get in HD. (Currently, only the base HBO and Showtime are in HD, where I am.)

Jack

We are also in that same 40-50 HD range, and to be honest the pickings left to wish for really start slimming down. There's always a couple you might like but they generally are not broad appeal channels.

I agree about the HBO/SHO multicasts... the full HD complement would be most welcome - especially HBO (Dexter is the only thing that really keeps me from switching SHO to Starz). We just added HBOw & SHOw, which is a start, but it would have seemed to make more sense to have added HBO2 & SHO2, which are counter-programmed to the motherships instead of just running the 3-hour delayed programming.

So i can now confirm that here in milwaukee they are only giving out 160 gb samsung 3090's for now. They have not yet recieved any with 320gb hardrives.

Ive had two 3090's for about a week. So far no missed recordings...no reboots....no freezing....not one problem on either machine...in fact everyone within my househould thinks these boxes are much faster than our previous 8300hd & hdc's..and we watch ALOT of tv in this house.....

Im not really sure what software machine my sammy is running here in milwaukee but im guessing 3.1.1_3 like the others in Charlotte NC....


I know how to access the diagnostics menu but how do i find out which version my box is running? where is it located within the diagnostics menu?

Also when i picked up my boxes they hadn't even been unboxed yet so i received the samsung stilled boxed up along with the manual and a component video chord. The store in our division couldn't tell me much about the boxes because they just got them.

So i can now confirm that here in milwaukee they are only giving out 160 gb samsung 3090's for now. They have not yet recieved any with 320gb hardrives.

Ive had two 3090's for about a week. So far no missed recordings...no reboots....no freezing....not one problem on either machine...in fact everyone within my househould thinks these boxes are much faster than our previous 8300hd & hdc's..and we watch ALOT of tv in this house.....

Im not really sure what software machine my sammy is running here in milwaukee but im guessing 3.1.1_3 like the others in Charlotte NC....


I know how to access the diagnostics menu but how do i find out which version my box is running? where is it located within the diagnostics menu?

Also when i picked up my boxes they hadn't even been unboxed yet so i received the samsung stilled boxed up along with the manual and a component video chord. The store in our division couldn't tell me much about the boxes because they just got them.


Thanks for the report. Glad yours are working fine, but sorry to hear that 320GB HDD is not universal.

On the first page of the Navigator diagnostics page, near the bottom is an entry for ODN Version. Since there is no mail light on the 3090, you just have to hold the [Select] button down for about 5 seconds, then hit the [Down] direction button.

BTW... Charlotte is not on 3.1.1_3... we still have 3.1.0_11.

Thanks for the report. Glad yours are working fine, but sorry to hear that 320GB HDD is not universal.

On the first page of the Navigator diagnostics page, near the bottom is an entry for ODN Version. Since there is no mail light on the 3090, you just have to hold the [Select] button down for about 5 seconds, then hit the [Down] direction button.

BTW... Charlotte is not on 3.1.1_3... we still have 3.1.0_11.

oh wow thanks

here in milwaukee we are officially running ODN Version 3.1.1_3 as of 02/05/09.


the 320 gb option doesn't bother me btw...but it would be nice to have that option. lol

oh wow thanks

here in milwaukee we are officially running ODN Version 3.1.1_3 as of 02/05/09.


the 320 gb option doesn't bother me btw...but it would be nice to have that option. lol

I guess we'll get to see if the newer version makes a difference. Keep us posted.

So the newer firmware is better. We have ODN 3.1.1_3 in our division and it should make a difference on those Samsung boxes. We should get the Samsung boxes soon. It remains to be seen if TWC San Diego will release those top secret 32xx boxes soon. Our president says the end of this month. I'd say this summer or sometime next month.

I have a thought, how about we all add at least our ODN version to our signatures. That way it will be easier for viewers to get an idea of what versions are deployed where. Plus we could get some interesting statistics like how many areas have 3.1.0 and 3.1.1 or even the awful 2.xxx! :eek:

Also, to the Sammy from Milwaukee, does your area have Digital Simulcast on channels under 100? If you are still getting analog channels through your TWC STB, that might be why you don't have the 320GB drive. I remember seeing that the 320G is only an option for the digital only tuner boxes. Here in NE Ohio I can now officially confirm that we have digital only tuners in some boxes, since all of our channels are on digital simulcast.

I guess we'll get to see if the newer version makes a difference. Keep us posted.

I REALLY, REALLY hope the 3090s with ODN 3.1.1_3 DO NOT have the stretchovision UI graphics. I hope that is an error just in the older version. The wishful side of me is hoping we got 3.1.1_3 just because the (properly working) Sammies are in our near future!! :D:D:D

Also, to the Sammy from Milwaukee, does your area have Digital Simulcast on channels under 100? If you are still getting analog channels through your TWC STB, that might be why you don't have the 320GB drive. I remember seeing that the 320G is only an option for the digital only tuner boxes. Here in NE Ohio I can now officially confirm that we have digital only tuners in some boxes, since all of our channels are on digital simulcast.

That is true...All channels under 100 are analog here...they have been pushing SDV heavily here.

I REALLY, REALLY hope the 3090s with ODN 3.1.1_3 DO NOT have the stretchovision UI graphics.

Sorry to break the news....but it does...

That is true...All channels under 100 are analog here...they have been pushing SDV heavily here.

That explains it. Once again analog TV holds back progress. How sad. :(

Sorry to break the news....but it does...

&%#$@!*&@#$@% :mad::mad::mad:

No Sammie for me...:(

That explains it. Once again analog TV holds back progress. How sad. :(



&%#$@!*&@#$@% :mad::mad::mad:

No Sammie for me...:(

LMAO

I Think the problem here is that the demand for High def channels is still not as high as in other areas...People here are more concerned with lower bills and better customer service....Most people can't even tell the difference between an analog channel and a digital one...I still have a hard time getting some of my family members to watch the High def channels...one reason is because no one feels like punching in 530 to get to TNT hd when they can just press 30 and be at the analog version...

So to eliminate analog here in milwaukee and issue the little cable converter boxes so that people can receive digital channels would be alot more costly than SDV and probably not turned a profit at this point in time. Plus i don't see them doing that anytime soon here with the whole digital transition thing going on...it would confused people even more.

After using this box for about a day, I have to say I am pleasantly surprised with it. It performs far better than my 8300HD did when it worked. Now, there was a time in my life when I never could have dreamed I would be saying that. I had an 8300HDC back in the early days of ODN2 and I hated that box with a passion. I even had to borrow Hookbill's chain to drag it back to TWC on my bumper. Then, out comes ODN 3, and suddenly the 8300HD looks like an antiquated POS with its lack of Nearest Tune, HD tags in the guide and other minor features.

Here are my observations so far:

PLEASE WAIT: Man, this thing just loves telling me to wait. Whether it is bring up the Settings menu, the DVR list or the B Search, it's always telling me to wait. It only lasts about a fraction of a second, but still. My hypothesis is that the Please Wait sign was covered on MDN by MDN's odd "fade" effect. The menus on MDN used to fade on and off, which now seems very strange. But since the ODN menus instant appear, I guess that's where the wait comes in. Not a big deal, the wait times are far improved over ODN2.

HDTV?: This is not an issue at all, but I find it to be a funny difference in software. On the front pane of the silver "spaceship" boxes, one of the indicator lamps is the word "HDTV" that is supposed to be lit whenever a HD channel is tuned. It used to work on Passport as well as the MDN. But now on this ODN box, the HDTV light is gone. Funny how they add and forget to add these little features in the software programming process. For me, it was more of an ego stroker, "look at me, I'm watching HDTV!".

DVR LIST: Some other small additions include a "counter" of series recordings. For example, one of my series recordings hasn't started recording yet, so it says when highlighted: "0 Episodes recorded; 4 episodes scheduled".

INTERACTIVE POPUPS: Another box with that option, yet it does nothing at all. Whether it is on or off, those stupid "For Enhanced Press SEL" banners still appear. I bet this has something to do with the future, since the list of "Coming Soon" items in our area include Start Over, Quick Clips and other Interactive TV features. Although I'm not sure why TWC would want to let us shut those off?

Speaking of "the average viewer" and HDTV, I had something horrible happen to me when I plugged in my new TWC box. After it finished booting, the box turned on to SD channel 2. At first the picture was normal with the sidebars. But then, POP!!!. The picture automatically expanded to fill the screen. And I noticed the 480i light was on the front panel. Apparently these boxes come factory default stuck on stupid. So immediately I went into Settings and disabled every output format except 1080i(the way I always had it with the old box). Using 1080i took away the funny looking picture.

The worst part was while it was set to 480i only, the HD channels were stretched AND letterboxed!! :eek::eek::eek: I can only imagine how many WRONG TV sets there currently are in NE Ohio because of people who don't know about output formats and aspect ratios. And both of the pieces of included literature say nothing about changing the formats for a 720p or 1080i HDTV. So people think stretched 480i is normal. I cringe...

Also, there was no digital audio, as the default for that is "Other", instead of Dolby Digital. So I had PCM audio. Luckily I knew about the anomaly called the "Devices" menu and changed it to Dolby Digital. Another thing I doubt most people know anything about.

But then again, the average TV viewer and TWC customer is a total MORON. Words cannot describe, so I leave this post with a story. When I went to the local TWC store today, I saw a Scientific Atlanta crate on the sidewalk, just alying there. Inside it was the packing material, instruction manuals, power cord and component video cables. So some boob ripped the new cable box out of its packaging on the fraking TWC sidewalk and ditched the cables needed to hook it up in the process. Oh how I'd love to see that moron come back and have to ask for more cables, especially when the CSR KNOWS they gave them cables earlier in the day! :D:D:D:D

Speaking of "the average viewer" and HDTV, I had something horrible happen to me when I plugged in my new TWC box. After it finished booting, the box turned on to SD channel 2. At first the picture was normal with the sidebars. But then, POP!!!. The picture automatically expanded to fill the screen. And I noticed the 480i light was on the front panel. Apparently these boxes come factory default stuck on stupid. So immediately I went into Settings and disabled every output format except 1080i(the way I always had it with the old box). Using 1080i took away the funny looking picture.

The worst part was while it was set to 480i only, the HD channels were stretched AND letterboxed!! :eek::eek::eek: I can only imagine how many WRONG TV sets there currently are in NE Ohio because of people who don't know about output formats and aspect ratios. And both of the pieces of included literature say nothing about changing the formats for a 720p or 1080i HDTV. So people think stretched 480i is normal. I cringe...

Also, there was no digital audio, as the default for that is "Other", instead of Dolby Digital. So I had PCM audio. Luckily I knew about the anomaly called the "Devices" menu and changed it to Dolby Digital. Another thing I doubt most people know anything about.

But then again, the average TV viewer and TWC customer is a total MORON. Words cannot describe, so I leave this post with a story. When I went to the local TWC store today, I saw a Scientific Atlanta crate on the sidewalk, just alying there. Inside it was the packing material, instruction manuals, power cord and component video cables. So some boob ripped the new cable box out of its packaging on the fraking TWC sidewalk and ditched the cables needed to hook it up in the process. Oh how I'd love to see that moron come back and have to ask for more cables, especially when the CSR KNOWS they gave them cables earlier in the day! :D:D:D:D

Defaults for 480i and PCM audio are understandable... they are guaranteed to make pictures and sound for all those morons, lol.

HDTV?: This is not an issue at all, but I find it to be a funny difference in software. On the front pane of the silver "spaceship" boxes, one of the indicator lamps is the word "HDTV" that is supposed to be lit whenever a HD channel is tuned. It used to work on Passport as well as the MDN. But now on this ODN box, the HDTV light is gone. Funny how they add and forget to add these little features in the software programming process. For me, it was more of an ego stroker, "look at me, I'm watching HDTV!".

DVR LIST: Some other small additions include a "counter" of series recordings. For example, one of my series recordings hasn't started recording yet, so it says when highlighted: "0 Episodes recorded; 4 episodes scheduled".

INTERACTIVE POPUPS: Another box with that option, yet it does nothing at all. Whether it is on or off, those stupid "For Enhanced Press SEL" banners still appear. I bet this has something to do with the future, since the list of "Coming Soon" items in our area include Start Over, Quick Clips and other Interactive TV features. Although I'm not sure why TWC would want to let us shut those off?

Doesn't the box show 480/720/1080 in its display? Oh wait... I forgot you prefer the $.99 scaler in the box over the $1.25 scaler in the TV, lol. BTW, the Samsung has nothing but power, clock/channel and red record light. No resolution indicators.

Never having an MDN DVR, I just took the scheduled episodes counter for granted... it is a very handy check that your recordings are scheduled.

I don't know why anyone would want to turn off the pop-ups, either. HBO and SHO are the only HD channels they ever are seen on. All the Start Over stuff is SD and I never see them anyway.

For those of you who already have lots of HD channels I have a question: Did your TWC division take so long to add new channels? It seems we are only getting about 5-7 channels a MONTH. We're already on SDV, so why the heck aren't these channels lighting about at a rate of about 5 per WEEK.

Think about this one... most of NYC except Manhattan started getting more HD channels 2-3 years ago. PLUS they got price lock options while folks in Manhattan suffered 3 rate increases in 15 months.

FINALLY last December, 1/2 of Manhattan got something like a shot of 60-70 HD channels all at once. That was for channels other parts of the city had gotten long earlier. Then a month or so ago, the second half of Manhattan got the rest. NOW, TWC's footprint in NYC does have a very decent number of HD channels, somewhere around 100.

Of course, that also means we have a LOT of glitching, wherein essentially we lose 5-10 seconds of dialog fairly frequently. Sometimes an hour can go by with onlyh the most minor of glitches and no lost dialog. All the way up to 100% unwatchable (for something like 2-3 weeks, FOX was like that, unwatchable except on theoir SD channel.

Specifically as to your question, I'd surmise carriage agreements MAY have something do with it.... although a better guess is nobody at TWC really cares they are rolled out extra slowly. Especially in areas where FIOS won't be happening anytime soon. My guess is Manhattan got shafted because it is going to take a LOT longer to get FIOS running in Manhattan.

We are also in that same 40-50 HD range, and to be honest the pickings left to wish for really start slimming down. There's always a couple you might like but they generally are not broad appeal channels.

Just to put some perspective on my previous post, until 11/08 I had less than 30. By 2009, I have close to 100.

I have a thought, how about we all add at least our ODN version to our signatures. That way it will be easier for viewers to get an idea of what versions are deployed where. Plus we could get some interesting statistics like how many areas have 3.1.0 and 3.1.1 or even the awful 2.xxx! :eek:

No sh*t! I offer my sig (and area under my name) as a model... it should tell anyone exactly what I am running.

I have a thought, how about we all add at least our ODN version to our signatures. That way it will be easier for viewers to get an idea of what versions are deployed where. Plus we could get some interesting statistics like how many areas have 3.1.0 and 3.1.1 or even the awful 2.xxx! :eek:
....

Let it be remembered that the "awful" 2.4_10_11 worked fine with eSATA and had no bugs. 3.1.1_3 added a few features (time slot recording and series priority are nice) and some bugs ("DD setting would not stick" thing is annoying). And no, on my 8300HDC box, 3.1.1_3 is not significantly faster at all. I so wish I could revert to 2.4_10_11.

*tests sig*

Let it be remembered that the "awful" 2.4_10_11 worked fine with eSATA and had no bugs. 3.1.1_3 added a few features (time slot recording and series priority are nice) and some bugs ("DD setting would not stick" thing is annoying). And no, on my 8300HDC box, 3.1.1_3 is not significantly faster at all. I so wish I could revert to 2.4_10_11.Ditto. I'm tired of recording SD. I'd rather have a release that works than one with marginally useful new features.

I hear they might start advertising the Samsung DVR since it might have some kind of networking features. I have access to the owners manual and it does mention some things about home networking. The San Diego site has the 3090 documentation but nothing on the 32xx boxes.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/MediaLibrary/1/1/FAQ/Documents/hookup/Samsung_SMT_3090HD_UserGuide.pdf

Still don't know any information on the 32xx boxes. Maybe thats some internal name for the 30xx boxes. All I know is that they are newer. The DVR is all black and has a 320 GB HDD.

I hear they might start advertising the Samsung DVR since it might have some kind of networking features. I have access to the owners manual and it does mention some things about home networking. The San Diego site has the 3090 documentation but nothing on the 32xx boxes.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/MediaLibrary/1/1/FAQ/Documents/hookup/Samsung_SMT_3090HD_UserGuide.pdf

Still don't know any information on the 32xx boxes. Maybe thats some internal name for the 30xx boxes. All I know is that they are newer. The DVR is all black and has a 320 GB HDD.Yeah, I found that document a couple of days ago and linked to it back here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16326462#post16326462).

What I find strange is that are no online mentions of a Samsung 3260 or 3270 DVR product except anectdotal ones in forums like this. (There's a guy in hdtv.forsandiego.com who says that he's a TWC employee and that he tested one for a while, in this (http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/cgi-bin/show.cgi?tpc=2&post=38243#POST38243) post. He says that it's a little lighter and has a bigger HDD, but he doesn't say what he's comparing it to). Where did the first person to mention it find out about it? Given the number of people who would work on a project like that, I'm amazed that it hasn't been leaked to the tech press by a source reliable enough for it to have been written up on Engadget or Gizmodo, etc.

Doesn't the box show 480/720/1080 in its display? Oh wait... I forgot you prefer the $.99 scaler in the box over the $1.25 scaler in the TV, lol. BTW, the Samsung has nothing but power, clock/channel and red record light. No resolution indicators.

Never having an MDN DVR, I just took the scheduled episodes counter for granted... it is a very handy check that your recordings are scheduled.

I don't know why anyone would want to turn off the pop-ups, either. HBO and SHO are the only HD channels they ever are seen on. All the Start Over stuff is SD and I never see them anyway.

Yes, the 1080i light is on all the time. Even when the box was off, which took me by surprise since only the time used to remain on with the box turned off.

Yes, the scaler in the box is better, especially on SD programming. I've tried using 408i and 480p outputs on the box before, it looked like crap. Even the IPG menus looked "fuzzy". Everything looks much better on 1080i all the time(or 720p if your set is 720p). Honestly, if I wanted the PQ I get by enabling the 480i resolution, I'd just use the S Video cable. Save the time of connecting the component cables.

What is the HD capacity for the new Samsung DVR's and if larger than the SA models, which is 160GB's I believe, how many hours of HD programing do you get with the new Sammy's?

Jack

What is the HD capacity for the new Samsung DVR's and if larger than the SA models, which is 160GB's I believe, how many hours of HD programing do you get with the new Sammy's?

Jack


I haven't come close to filling it up, but my 160 GB 8300HDC typically hovered around 50% full and this one hovers around 25%, so it probably is about double. Right now I have six hours of HD programming recorded plus 1 hour of SD and it shows 13% full.

Interestingly, my Samsung has BOTH the 320GB drive AND an analog tuner. The tuner diagnostic pages report "Analog" for a few channels like Gov't Access and TV Guide Channel. So despite prior info to the contrary, the two options are not mutually exclusive.

Yes, the 1080i light is on all the time. Even when the box was off, which took me by surprise since only the time used to remain on with the box turned off.

Yes, the scaler in the box is better, especially on SD programming. I've tried using 408i and 480p outputs on the box before, it looked like crap. Even the IPG menus looked "fuzzy". Everything looks much better on 1080i all the time(or 720p if your set is 720p). Honestly, if I wanted the PQ I get by enabling the 480i resolution, I'd just use the S Video cable. Save the time of connecting the component cables.

Well, I always advise people to try all options and use what looks best to them. But your result is not typical. It usually is too close to call and the channel change delays are what get folks to lock outputs on the box, not that it actually looks better that way.

Also bear in mind that prior to 1080p, many LCDs took a short cut trying to deinterleave 1080i,
actually THROWING AWAY every other frame, resulting in a 540p@30Hz display.

Which is one more reason PLASMA has been king up until recently...

What is the HD capacity for the new Samsung DVR's and if larger than the SA models, which is 160GB's I believe, how many hours of HD programing do you get with the new Sammy's?

Jack

i counted up 22hrs of Hd recorded right now and it shows 45%.

Multichannel News article on new manufacturers (e.g., Samsung) breaking into the SA/Motorola cable STB duopoly via OCAP/tru2way.

http://www.multichannel.com/article/210003-Cover_Story_Breaking_Free.php

Says that TWC had deployed over 300,000 Samsung tru2way boxes by Y.E. 2008.

Also mentions that TW buys STBs at a rate of 2 million units per year!

A 320 GB HDD can do up to 30 to 40 hours of HD. TWC says 35 hours at 19 mbps once you've counted the trick play buffering. Of course if they are using a lower bit rate then you can put more HD on it.

A 320 GB HDD can do up to 30 to 40 hours of HD. TWC says 35 hours at 19 mbps once you've counted the trick play buffering. Of course if they are using a lower bit rate then you can put more HD on it.Subtract 16 GB for the trick play buffer and it's good for 39 hours, 44 minutes, figuring an average bit rate of 17 Mbps. If it were all 19 Mbps, it'd be 35 hours, 19 minutes. Your recordings would have to average 22.37 Mbps to get it down to 30 hours.

.

Interestingly, my Samsung has BOTH the 320GB drive AND an analog tuner. The tuner diagnostic pages report "Analog" for a few channels like Gov't Access and TV Guide Channel. So despite prior info to the contrary, the two options are not mutually exclusive.

That's odd. I remember something saying the digital only version had the bigger HDD. One positive is since the analog channels use more drive space, the bigger hard drive could come in handy.

OT: It would be cool if TWC exclusively distributed HD DVRs only. I can only imagine how many shows a 320G HDD could hold if everything was recorded in SD. I believe the 160G SA 8300HDC can hold ~90 hours SDTV programming.

Multichannel News article on new manufacturers (e.g., Samsung) breaking into the SA/Motorola cable STB duopoly via OCAP/tru2way.

http://www.multichannel.com/article/210003-Cover_Story_Breaking_Free.php

Says that TWC had deployed over 300,000 Samsung tru2way boxes by Y.E. 2008.

Also mentions that TW buys STBs at a rate of 2 million units per year!

I gotta pull the BS card on that one. Considering Scenes From A Local TWC Store, it seems they recycle equipment alot. I just wish they'd kick up that number and have all new equipment and all new digital only systems.

I saw a CSR do something excellent when I went to return that faulty 8300HD. Someone (who apparently knew their TWC equipment) was returning a old Pioneer box. Those thing are major POSes with MDN. After they complained about the speed I heard the CSR say she was giving them a HD box, "It still works on your TV". That needs to become the rule, not the exception. TWC should do a door to doot swapout of old Pioneer boxes. Replace them with 4250HDC. Also, I heard her basically admit what we know: those boxes are garbage, because of the software.

OT: It would be cool if TWC exclusively distributed HD DVRs only. I can only imagine how many shows a 320G HDD could hold if everything was recorded in SD. I believe the 160G SA 8300HDC can hold ~90 hours SDTV programming.

Or just cut out the middleman and toss all SD channels that have HDTV equivalents and cut on bandwidth use since EVERY one of these boxes is perfectly capable of downscaling for SD 480i output.

WHY these cable companies have not caught onto this idea, I'll never know.

(and yes, I know your hatred for letterboxed programming nickdawg. Let's not get off on that tangent shall we?)

Well, I always advise people to try all options and use what looks best to them. But your result is not typical. It usually is too close to call and the channel change delays are what get folks to lock outputs on the box, not that it actually looks better that way.

I suggest you give 480i a try. Even if there was no delay at all, I still wouldn't use it. On 480i, the picture looks dull and murky, the guide/banner look not sharp and on screen text(news L3, logos) do not look as sharp. On 1080i, the picture looks brighter and clearer. Depending on the source, some Digital channels look almost as good as SD content on HD channels, when set to 1080i.

Or just cut out the middleman and toss all SD channels that have HDTV equivalents and cut on bandwidth use since EVERY one of these boxes is perfectly capable of downscaling for SD 480i output.

WHY these cable companies have not caught onto this idea, I'll never know.

(and yes, I know your hatred for letterboxed programming nickdawg. Let's not get off on that tangent shall we?)

Or they could always center cut it like OTA broadcast. One of the HUGE benefits for center cut is it eliminates all stretchovision. You can't 4:3 crop stretched 4:3 material. TNT/TBS stretcher would cease to exist.

And the people rejoice!!

Actually, what should be done is have SD viewers watch the HD versions, with aspect ratio controls user defined. That way if someone wants to watch a crappy squashed picture on their SDTV they can. Or if they want to use every inch of their tiny 19" TV set, they can.

I suggest you give 480i a try. Even if there was no delay at all, I still wouldn't use it. On 480i, the picture looks dull and murky, the guide/banner look not sharp and on screen text(news L3, logos) do not look as sharp. On 1080i, the picture looks brighter and clearer. Depending on the source, some Digital channels look almost as good as SD content on HD channels, when set to 1080i.

It's all completely dependent on the tv set or receiver and the scaler involved. Yours must be extremely bottom barrel. Also keep in mind that the massive compression involved on SD channels does a good job of negating the performance of a lot of scalers.

My Panny PX80 plasma has a pretty decent scaler in it to where properly encoded pressed dvd's are really good quality. Not HD, but very near that. And the Navigator guide is just as crisp upscaled by the tv as it is output by the box at 1080i. I cannot tell a difference. Though when it comes to SD programming, both the tv and the box match in the scaling quality dept. due to all the compression involved.

Actually, what should be done is have SD viewers watch the HD versions, with aspect ratio controls user defined. That way if someone wants to watch a crappy squashed picture on their SDTV they can. Or if they want to use every inch of their tiny 19" TV set, they can.

Now THIS I will agree on. And it SHOULD be possible with the picture aspect button/setting in navigator. But for some retarded reason it is completely non-functional on SD output (at least on the S-Video output) and is locked to a letterboxed output. Or at least this was the case on the old v2 ODN when I tested about a year back give or take.

It's all completely dependent on the tv set or receiver and the scaler involved. Yours must be extremely bottom barrel. Also keep in mind that the massive compression involved on SD channels does a good job of negating the performance of a lot of scalers.

My Panny PX80 plasma has a pretty decent scaler in it to where properly encoded pressed dvd's are really good quality. Not HD, but very near that. And the Navigator guide is just as crisp upscaled by the tv as it is output by the box at 1080i. I cannot tell a difference. Though when it comes to SD programming, both the tv and the box match in the scaling quality dept. due to all the compression involved.

Bottom barrel? It's a Pioneer HDTV. I blame the quality of TWC's channels. Most of the SD channels(under 100 that used to be analog) are awful. Plus I think they are encoded wrong since there is a black stripe to the left of the screen(which has been discussed in this topic before).

DVDs look fine. Even when I had a S-Video connected DVD player, they looked decent. And for the guide, I prefer the way it looks at a higher resolution. I guess that's the way it is with PQ, a matter of preference.

Like I said: With the compression used on the SD channels, even the best scaler is going to work no better than a real low end one. In this particular case I'd probably agree with setting the box for 720p/1080i and having 480i and 480p upscaled by the box to 720p if the channel switching delay is also an issue.

But I am real anal about adding extra unneeded processing steps to the image and would rather give the tv the native channel resolution and let it take the 2 steps of processing the image to display on the panel, switching delays be damned. So far no one in the house has complained about said delay so no harm.

(I also want to add that, at last glance which was once again back on ODN v2 on my 8300HDC, killing off 480i but leaving 480p there was clear indication that the only 'deinterlacing' being done was just tossing half the frames as various 'bugs' in form of small font static text had nasty aliasing and blockiness indicative of such a process that was otherwise very smooth when letting the tv process the 480i picture.)

Now THIS I will agree on. And it SHOULD be possible with the picture aspect button/setting in navigator. But for some retarded reason it is completely non-functional on SD output (at least on the S-Video output) and is locked to a letterboxed output. Or at least this was the case on the old v2 ODN when I tested about a year back give or take.

It still is with ODN 3 on the RF channel 4 output. I have a 4250HDC on my bedroom SDTV. I was looking forward to making my on HD center cuts on the local channels(as some, especially WOIO look like crap). But no, it's forced into letterbox.:( BOO!:( On the bright side, this is something TWC didn't do wrong, for once. When I had Passport on the 8300HD, I tried recording shows to tape off the HD channels. Big mistake. They were all forced into letterbox with GRAY bars!! Passport used to use gray sidebars. I think it is some error on SA's boxes. I remember reading that Component and HDMI cannot be used simultaneously. Only the HD outputs can be controlled with the aspect settings and there can be only one output at a time.

TWC should do a door to door swapout of old Pioneer boxes. Replace them with 4250HDC.

I could not agree more! All Pioneer boxes should be swapped and replaced with newer converter models. If anyone at TWC moderates this forum, please consider this! I heard some divisions were still GIVING OUT OLD PIONEER BOXES! (I think this was a case in Kansas City.) The Pioneer units are much too outdated to handle the new Navigator software. Pioneer boxes should no longer be distributed in ANY division.

Jack

I had actually did that and watched a recorded primetime program off WFMJHD (believe it was L&O:SVU) and watched it via S-Video on my bedroom tv. Just because of the nature of the thing where the compression artifacts on HD programs are going to be pretty much unnoticable on an SD set in addition to HD pictures having a wider color gamut, the picture quality was ASTOUNDING compared to watching the same program, still letterboxed, but from the digital SD channel.

Thankfully Time Warner doesn't charge extra for the standard HD channels nor for HD vs SD boxes. If it ever came to the point of being able to afford and extra box for my bedroom, I'd just lie and say it's an HD set to get an HD box.

I gotta pull the BS card on that one. Considering Scenes From A Local TWC Store, it seems they recycle equipment alot. I just wish they'd kick up that number and have all new equipment and all new digital only systems.

I saw a CSR do something excellent when I went to return that faulty 8300HD. Someone (who apparently knew their TWC equipment) was returning a old Pioneer box. Those thing are major POSes with MDN. After they complained about the speed I heard the CSR say she was giving them a HD box, "It still works on your TV". That needs to become the rule, not the exception. TWC should do a door to doot swapout of old Pioneer boxes. Replace them with 4250HDC. Also, I heard her basically admit what we know: those boxes are garbage, because of the software.

I remember the days when a HD DVR had a substabntially larger HDD. I recall friends getting phony receipts together to "convince" TWC they needed a HD box (at the time, one needed to "prove" one had a HD display to get a HD box). Gradually, it seemed to be that all you had to do was go to the TWC store and swap out your old box, no questions asked.

I'd just lie and say it's an HD set to get an HD box.

You don't even have to lie... in both Charlotte and Greensboro I know many folks who got HD boxes that never asked for them. When I ordered service for my daughters apartment in Greensboro, I absent-mindedly answered NO to the "do you have an HDTV" question (I had intended to say yes just to get an HD box), but they still showed up with an 8300HDC anyway (running SARA... ugh).

Almost three years ago... right after TW started advertising "free HD" and charging same prices for SD vs HD box rentals... I just walked into the TW office and said I needed an HD box. No questions asked. Handed me a Pioneer Voyager HD. Worked great on my Panasonic 32" SD CRT... the letterboxed HD channels looked SOOOOOOOO much better than the SD channels. The letterboxing never bothered me in the slightest.... all of my DVD collection, built mostly while having only 4:3 TVs, is widescreen and we watched them letterboxed for years.

Also, it would appear from what I have seen that TW stopped buying new SD boxes some time ago.

I could not agree more! All Pioneer boxes should be swapped and replaced with newer converter models. If anyone at TWC moderates this forum, please consider this! I heard some divisions were still GIVING OUT OLD PIONEER BOXES! (I think this was a case in Kansas City.) The Pioneer units are much too outdated to handle the new Navigator software. Pioneer boxes should no longer be distributed in ANY division.

Jack

The Pioneer Voyager HD box (non-DVR) I had was a dream to use... right up till the time they loaded Mystro onto it. Then it became a clunky POS. Decent box in its day, but its day has long passed.

It still is with ODN 3 on the RF channel 4 output. I have a 4250HDC on my bedroom SDTV. I was looking forward to making my on HD center cuts on the local channels(as some, especially WOIO look like crap). But no, it's forced into letterbox.:( BOO!:( On the bright side, this is something TWC didn't do wrong, for once. When I had Passport on the 8300HD, I tried recording shows to tape off the HD channels. Big mistake. They were all forced into letterbox with GRAY bars!! Passport used to use gray sidebars. I think it is some error on SA's boxes. I remember reading that Component and HDMI cannot be used simultaneously. Only the HD outputs can be controlled with the aspect settings and there can be only one output at a time.

It's non-functional with the S-Video out as well. I just dumped an HD movie I had recorded for my daughter with the Samsung 3090 to my Panasonic DVR to burn a DVD of it.... letterboxed was the only output available for HD content played on the SD outputs. Not an issue to us as that would have been my choice anyway, had I had one.

I think I had mentioned early last week that I ran into a problem where Navigator would crash on the Sammie, but the box would keep working with its (very limited) native GUI. When that happened, it took three reboots before Navigator loaded again. Well, same thing happened this weekend, except no amount of reboots, whether by pulling power or using the reboot function in the diagnostic screen, would get Navigator to load again. Box would just hang at the OCAP display... which is just before where the Mystro load countdown would usually start. After a few minutes the box would work under its native OS, but no vestige of ODN was present.

Eventually, I decided I had nothing to lose and I used the "Reset to Factory Defaults" in the password protected page of the Sammy's internal diagnostics. After resetting, the box rebooted and proceeded to load a fresh copy of ODN from from the headend... once it reloaded the box booted completely normally.

Had to re-enable the AC3 over HDMI option (which means the curious choice of disabling AC3 over HDMI is a Samsung choice) and lost my favorites, but everything else was intact, including recordings and schedules. Nice to know we have a safe means to force an OS reload.

One other interesting side effect of the factory reset is that the EDID information displayed in the 3090's HDMI diagnostics now accurately reflects the capabilities of the Onkyo 876 receiver it is connected to. Before it showed like 21 supported video modes (many seemingly identical entries repeated) and the supported audio modes were there but forced off the bottom of the screen. Seems like a bunch of junk information was cleared out.

You don't even have to lie... *snip*
That's what I kinda figured. I know when we got our HD set last year and swapped our SA8000 in for an SA8300HDC, all we has to do was walk in and say we wanted to swap for an HD box and I don't think they even had to pull account info. Just brought up a sealed SA cardboard box with all the material and scanned both the serial numbers on both boxes and away we went.

Now lets see if they can actually do something smart and, once they know everyone has HD capable boxes (PLEASE people. Do not hold them up on this. Let's get cracking on getting every joe-sumer with SD sets on HD boxes.), drop all the SD equivalents of their HD channels and even do something like DirecTV or Dish where the SD channels are essentially aliased to the HD versions. The bandwidth savings won't be substantial, but it'd be a help in either case.

The Pioneer Voyager HD box (non-DVR) I had was a dream to use... right up till the time they loaded Mystro onto it. Then it became a clunky POS. Decent box in its day, but its day has long passed.

Oh No doubt. I had the SD version ages ago when they still had Pasport running on it. Thing ran like a dream and was flawless. Though I've never had the ability to use one with MDN loaded. From what I have heard though it's REAL nasty.

...and poor RobbK seems to be having it worse than everyone. i wonder what the difference is.

I have exhcanged my Samsung SMT-H3090 box for another identical model. It recorded as it was supposed to on Sunday. I'll give it a week or so and see how it performs. My fingers are crossed that it works much better. I'm hoping I just had a box that had some flaky hardware.

There is a password protected diagnostics page within the extended diagnostic section (see above) that has an entry for "Enable AC3 Support Over HDMI". It was disabled by default. After enabling, the DD/AC3 passses to AVR perfectly over HDMI.

Why it is disabled by default is anybody's guess. After enabling, the "AC3 in Host" flag shown above in the HDMI Status page changed from "Not Support" to "Support"

BTW... the password was extremely difficult to guess - "3090". :rolleyes:

I can also confirm that this has remidied my problem of outputting DD/AC3 sound to my Onkyo A/V reciever over digital coaxial with the audio mode of the Samsung cable box set to "HDMI".

I did notice though that the volume level being ouput from the cable box to my LG TV over the HDMI cable has decreased in decibel level, but is obviously compensated for by turning the TV up louder, which is not a big deal. I guess the AC3 signal sent over HDMI is not as amplified as whatever type of audio was sent over the cable prior to changing this setting.

This allows me to leave the audio output of the Samsung cable box to "HDMI" and still be able to pass DD sound to my A/V receiver when desired without having to change audio output settings in the cable box's setting menu.

I can also confirm that this has remidied my problem of outputting DD/AC3 sound to my Onkyo A/V reciever over digital coaxial with the audio mode of the Samsung cable box set to "HDMI".

I did notice though that the volume level being ouput from the cable box to my LG TV over the HDMI cable has decreased in decibel level, but is obviously compensated for by turning the TV up louder, which is not a big deal. I guess the AC3 signal sent over HDMI is not as amplified as whatever type of audio was sent over the cable prior to changing this setting.

This allows me to leave the audio output of the Samsung cable box to "HDMI" and still be able to pass DD sound to my A/V receiver when desired without having to change audio output settings in the cable box's setting menu.

Glad to hear that! At least one of the presumed "issues" with the Sammie is solved, then.

I have exhcanged my Samsung SMT-H3090 box for another identical model. It recorded as it was supposed to on Sunday. I'll give it a week or so and see how it performs. My fingers are crossed that it works much better. I'm hoping I just had a box that had some flaky hardware.

As noted above I did a factory reset this weekend that forced a reload of ODN as well. Tonight is my biggest recording night... we'll see how things go.

You can't 4:3 crop stretched 4:3 material. TNT/TBS stretcher would cease to exist.

Actually, you can... or at least I can squeeze it back to AOR.

I can put either my TV (Samsung A550 LCD) or my receiver (Onkyo 876) in 4:3 output mode with a stretched 4:3 input and get OAR on the screen. This works perfectly well for History and Bio, which linearly stretch 4:3 out to 16:9, so the stretch process is perfectly reversible. It's less successful for TNT/TBS, since they use a non-linear stretch and the center of the screen looks a bit squished when squeezed back down to 4:3.

That's what I kinda figured. I know when we got our HD set last year and swapped our SA8000 in for an SA8300HDC, all we has to do was walk in and say we wanted to swap for an HD box and I don't think they even had to pull account info. Just brought up a sealed SA cardboard box with all the material and scanned both the serial numbers on both boxes and away we went.

Now lets see if they can actually do something smart and, once they know everyone has HD capable boxes (PLEASE people. Do not hold them up on this. Let's get cracking on getting every joe-sumer with SD sets on HD boxes.), drop all the SD equivalents of their HD channels and even do something like DirecTV or Dish where the SD channels are essentially aliased to the HD versions. The bandwidth savings won't be substantial, but it'd be a help in either case.


No, let's not drop the SD channels. Instead, let's drop the SD ANALOG CHANNELS. SD digital versions of TBS, History, A&E are not using much bandwidth at all. The ANALOG versions of those channels are the ones wasting the most bandwidth.

Plus, I would NEVER take one of those "HD channels only" packages. I want my SD channels too. I want the option to watch TBS SD, since all of their SD programming is trashed.

*And don't say "you can use the AR settings on your TV", because you can't. What I've noticed on TNT, TBS, FOOD, HGTV, History is they NON LINEAR stretch 4:3 programming, where the edges are more stretched than the center. That kind of damage cannot be undone(and produce a decent end product) by manipulating TV settings. I've tried, and failed.:(

Just a note, but in our division it has become VERY common for TWC to give out HD boxes to customers who only have SD sets. I've done two myself for people I know that upgraded to DVR service. I went and was told they didn't have any SD DVR's and was given an HD model instead.

I could not agree more! All Pioneer boxes should be swapped and replaced with newer converter models. If anyone at TWC moderates this forum, please consider this! I heard some divisions were still GIVING OUT OLD PIONEER BOXES! (I think this was a case in Kansas City.) The Pioneer units are much too outdated to handle the new Navigator software. Pioneer boxes should no longer be distributed in ANY division.

NE Ohio still does. When I was there in January, I saw someone leaving with a Pioneer box. Also, I was talking to a guy in line who was there again because he ordered a HD box and they give him a POS Pioneer SD box instead. Idiots.

Then last week I saw something good. I saw their BEST CSR giving someone complaining about MDN on the Pioneer boxes a new SA 4250HDC. She told them it works on their SDTV even though it is a HD box. If only they could ALL do that! :D

Jack

I remember the days when a HD DVR had a substabntially larger HDD. I recall friends getting phony receipts together to "convince" TWC they needed a HD box (at the time, one needed to "prove" one had a HD display to get a HD box). Gradually, it seemed to be that all you had to do was go to the TWC store and swap out your old box, no questions asked.

When I got my first HD box back in 2006, the TWC store told me I needed a "service call" to install the box. And "we don't have HD boxes here". Funny thing was after my service call, where the guy brought the wrong box, I took it back to the TWC store, and they swapped it for a DVR!! They had them all along!! Maybe they think I don't look like someone who would have a HDTV set? :confused:

*And don't say "you can use the AR settings on your TV", because you can't. What I've noticed on TNT, TBS, FOOD, HGTV, History is they NON LINEAR stretch 4:3 programming, where the edges are more stretched than the center. That kind of damage cannot be undone(and produce a decent end product) by manipulating TV settings. I've tried, and failed.:(

TNT and TBS... no doubt on the non-linear stretch, which is what I stated previously. On History and Bio, however, I have seen nothing but linear stretch that goes back to AOR flawlessly. Not much experience with Food or HGTV programming. What little I have watched has always been real 16:9.

BTW... anybody notice that a good bit of Discovery Networks HD programming (on Discovery, Science, TLC, etc) has very narrow side bars... looks like pillarboxed 16:10 or something along those lines.

Just a note, but in our division it has become VERY common for TWC to give out HD boxes to customers who only have SD sets. I've done two myself for people I know that upgraded to DVR service. I went and was told they didn't have any SD DVR's and was given an HD model instead.

It's the same here in Milwaukee Wisconsin. Although we have an HD set now, at the time we got the "All The Best Package" we got a 1-year free DVR upgrade. When the tech came, he just gave us a HD-DVR, even though we only had an SD set. Get an HD box, even if you only have an SD set. Than if or when you upgrade to an HD set, you won't have to exchange the box. Just make sure you get the proper cable hookup for HD TV's. HDMI cable is the best quality, followed by Component Cable. Not sure about S-Video cable, but I know that Coax Cable will not work on an HD set.

Jack

It's the same here in Milwaukee Wisconsin. Although we have an HD set now, at the time we got the "All The Best Package" we got a 1-year free DVR upgrade. When the tech came, he just gave us a HD-DVR, even though we only had an SD set. Get an HD box, even if you only have an SD set. Than if or when you upgrade to an HD set, you won't have to exchange the box. Just make sure you get the proper cable hookup for HD TV's. HDMI cable is the best quality, followed by Component Cable. Not sure about S-Video cable, but I know that Coax Cable will not work on an HD set.

Jack

TWC even gives you the component video cables when you get a HD box. Just put the package away somewhere under your TV to pull out when you get a new HDTV.

I wonder how many people will be SOL once they go HD if they don't keep the component cables? :p

(which I guess is OK, since some people think they are watching "HD" with just a SVideo or RF cable connected)

It's the same here in Milwaukee Wisconsin. Although we have an HD set now, at the time we got the "All The Best Package" we got a 1-year free DVR upgrade. When the tech came, he just gave us a HD-DVR, even though we only had an SD set. Get an HD box, even if you only have an SD set. Than if or when you upgrade to an HD set, you won't have to exchange the box. Just make sure you get the proper cable hookup for HD TV's. HDMI cable is the best quality, followed by Component Cable. Not sure about S-Video cable, but I know that Coax Cable will not work on an HD set.

Jack

HDMI and Component will provide virtually the same PQ. It is common for HDMI to get the nod because it's digital, but with so many HDMI issues with TWC I have been using component cables. HDMI is a greta idea that was poorly implemented with HDCP. Take away HDCP and the handshake issues go away. I've yet to get a TWC box to properly switch resolutions when run through an AVR (in my division anyway). I'm not sure if it's a SARA issue or a hardware issue. What's the consensus among Navigator users?

What's the consensus among Navigator users?

I've never had the slightest issue with HDMI resolution switching or handshaking with ODN 3.1.x on either the 8300HDC or the SMT-H3090, and I leave all the output resolutions turned on so its happening all the time.

(..... Since some people think they are watching "hd" with just a svideo or rf cable connected)


terrible!!!

I've never had the slightest issue with HDMI resolution switching or handshaking with ODN 3.1.x on either the 8300HDC or the SMT-H3090, and I leave all the output resolutions turned on so its happening all the time.

I briefly had HDMI in the earlier days of Passport Echo. At that time, I don't think there was a way to "disable" resolutions, so it would constantly change whenever I changed the channels. Plus I hate the way 480i looks and it seemed like something was wrong(as the picture flashed and channel changing was delayed). Later I learned that was 'normal' for resolution changes. I decided I'm not putting up with that ****. Plus HDMI is another useless feature(for TWC) like eSATA(as the TWC tech didn't even know what HDMI was---in 2006).

AFAIK, the supplied cables are good enough. The new ones I got from SA included with my 8240HDC are gold plated connectors. Which I believe is a big selling point with the "rip-off' Monster cables you see at big box stores(and they try to force you to buy).

...since some people think they are watching "HD" with just a SVideo or RF cable connected.

You mean its NOT????:eek:

BTW... Samsung 3090 does not even have an RF output. (But the "devices" setting page, in the box's native GUI, has an RF bypass setting, so maybe some incarnations of the 3090 may have it.)

I've never had the slightest issue with HDMI resolution switching or handshaking with ODN 3.1.x on either the 8300HDC or the SMT-H3090, and I leave all the output resolutions turned on so its happening all the time.

Good to know. What AVR are you using? I'm an Onkyo fan, but I have had issues with my 640 and now my 806. I'm guessing it's something to do with the SARA software. However, when the unit is run directly into a TV it switches without issue, so I'm thinking there is an HDCP handshake issue happening somewhere. The 806 even has an HDMI repeater in it. I could switch the box to fixed 1080i, but I'd rather have the HQV chip in my 6500 do the scaling. If we EVER get Navigator, then I'll know.

You mean its NOT????:eek:

It's horrifying to me, but it's OK for them. Since so many people are idiots, I wouldn't expect them to use the right cables.

The funny thing is a found a SA crate on the sidewalk outside the TWC store. I think the crate had the instruction manuals, power cord and component video cables in the box. Some idiot ripped the box out of the crate and ditched it on the sidewalk. See, that's who was talking about when I said it would be "OK to use just the RF".

When we got our HD set, the clown who delivered it just hooked up the old Coax Cables to it, and I was like, WTF? A relative of mine who is an electronics engineer came out with new HDMI cables and hooked it up properly. We also found that the best picture quality came through by leaving the box at 1080 res all the time. He had both of his boxes set to Auto Select and didn't like the pausing between channels. Now both of us have 1080 resolution enabled all the time and the channel changing response is much faster.

However, I have gotten different stories from different people that this depends on the make and model of your TV, the make and model of your box, and even picture quality at the head end. Some HD sets I learned only display in 720 res, so if you try to go higher, you may get a "Video Not Supported" message from your box or TV. I have MDN Navigator on an SA-8300 box.

Jack

Good to know. What AVR are you using? I'm an Onkyo fan, but I have had issues with my 640 and now my 806. I'm guessing it's something to do with the SARA software. However, when the unit is run directly into a TV it switches without issue, so I'm thinking there is an HDCP handshake issue happening somewhere. The 806 even has an HDMI repeater in it. I could switch the box to fixed 1080i, but I'd rather have the HQV chip in my 6500 do the scaling. If we EVER get Navigator, then I'll know.

I was originally set up HDMI direct to Samsung TV and had no issues. About 1 sec channel change delay which was all on the TV side.

I recently upgraded my non-HDMI Onkyo TX-NR801 to a TX-SR876 and now have HDMI running through the receiver. No issues with this configuration, either (note... I never had the 8300HDC and the 876 together... only the Samsung with the 876). Whatever delays I do see are entirely due to the receiver and/or TV lockup times. The box switches instantly and reliably. The 876's Reon scaler does a nice job but it is a tad slow on the changes, but thats on the receiver, not the box.

My son (on TWC Raleigh) has a TX-SR806 hooked between an 8300HDC and a 52" Sharp D64 and has no HDMI issues either. He has all resolutions turned on at the box and the receiver in through mode, as the 806 has the "lesser" Faroudja video processing as opposed to the 876's Reon HQV and he prefers the PQ when the Sharp handles all the scaling.

When we got our HD set, the clown who delivered it just hooked up the old Coax Cables to it, and I was like, WTF? A relative of mine who is an electronics engineer came out with new HDMI cables and hooked it up properly. We also found that the best picture quality came through by leaving the box at 1080 res all the time. He had both of his boxes set to Auto Select and didn't like the pausing between channels. Now both of us have 1080 resolution enabled all the time and the channel changing response is much faster.

However, I have gotten different stories from different people that this depends on the make and model of your TV, the make and model of your box, and even picture quality at the head end. Some HD sets I learned only display in 720 res, so if you try to go higher, you may get a "Video Not Supported" message from your box or TV. I have MDN Navigator on an SA-8300 box.

Jack


Same thing happened to us. when we ordered TWC we told them we had two hd sets...when the tech came and hooked it up, he used an s-video chord that we had in the house...He should be glad i wasn't home at the time of the install...I would have told that tech about himself!!!

When we got our HD set, the clown who delivered it just hooked up the old Coax Cables to it, and I was like, WTF? A relative of mine who is an electronics engineer came out with new HDMI cables and hooked it up properly. We also found that the best picture quality came through by leaving the box at 1080 res all the time. He had both of his boxes set to Auto Select and didn't like the pausing between channels. Now both of us have 1080 resolution enabled all the time and the channel changing response is much faster.

However, I have gotten different stories from different people that this depends on the make and model of your TV, the make and model of your box, and even picture quality at the head end. Some HD sets I learned only display in 720 res, so if you try to go higher, you may get a "Video Not Supported" message from your box or TV. I have MDN Navigator on an SA-8300 box.

Jack

As you stated, it definitely depends on the relative quality of the scalers involved. SD programming is 480i and it must be scaled SOMEWHERE before its displayed on pretty much anything other than a CRT (lack of scaling artifacts is the primary reason that SD programming almost always looks best on SD CRTs). There is nothing that says its universally better to do the scaling in one device or the other... just the relative scaling quality of the particular devices involved. Probably 80% of the time the difference is small enough that it comes down to channel change times and not PQ. I can't argue with Nickdawg for turning off the 480i/p resolutions in his box... it's his eyes and and he probably is correct that it's better that way in his setup, but by the same token his setup is not the universal answer to what makes the for the best PQ. It always "depends".

What I might be a bit more vocal about is objecting to turning off 720p output when you are feeding a 1080p display. To literally rip apart a progressive scan video signal (that only needs pixel mapping to go from 720p to 1080p) to create an interlaced version, only to require the TV to de-interlace it, borders on criminal misconduct, lol. No amount of channel change delay is enough to subject that poor video signal to that kind of mistreatment.

As you stated, it definitely depends on the relative quality of the scalers involved. SD programming is 480i and it must be scaled SOMEWHERE before its displayed on pretty much anything other than a CRT. There is nothing that says its universally better to do the scaling in one device or the other... just the relative scaling quality of the devices involved. Probably 80% of the time the difference is small enough that it comes down to channel change times and not PQ. I can't argue with Nickdawg for turning off the 480i/p resolutions in his box... it's his eyes and and he probably is correct that it's better that way in his setup.

Well, thank you! ;) I remember someone was trying to tell me my TV(my PIONEER HDTV) was a POS because of what I saw on the 480i output. It's all about what each person sees, and I doubt there's a scaler out there that would make me abandon exclusive 720p/1080i output. The box GUI looks S-Video quality on 480i, because that's what it is. Incoming S-Video is 480i, along with composite and RF. 480i on Component is only slightly better quality than the ones mentioned before.

It's weird. The other thing I noticed(and it bugged me) is the sidebars were skinnier on SD channels with box output set to 480i. With the box set to output 1080i all the time, the sidebars are the same size as sidebars on HD channels. If you're watching a SD channel or a HD channel broadcasting SD content in 4:3, there's really no way to tell the difference(other than actual PQ).

What I might be a bit more vocal about is objecting to turning off 720p output when you are feeding a 1080p display. To literally tear apart a progressive scan video signal (that really only needs pixel mapping to go from 720p to 1080p) to create an interlaced version, only to require the TV to de-interlace it, borders on criminal misconduct, lol. No amount of channel change delay is enough to subject that poor video signal to that kind of mistreatment.

What about using 720p all the time on a 1080p set? Since the TV set is native 1080p and the box output would be 720p, you'd have a p===>p signal and there would be no delays, as the box always outputs 720p.

What I might be a bit more vocal about is objecting to turning off 720p output when you are feeding a 1080p display. To literally rip apart a progressive scan video signal (that only needs pixel mapping to go from 720p to 1080p) to create an interlaced version, only to require the TV to de-interlace it, borders on criminal misconduct, lol. No amount of channel change delay is enough to subject that poor video signal to that kind of mistreatment.

Completely agreed. And unless you are working with an older 'true' RPTV (3 separate color projections from the rear: R, G, B) or a rare CRT HD set, almost every HD set these days is natively progressive. LCDs, Plasmas, DLPs, etc..

The process de/re-interlacing process to go from interlaced or progressive video is never lossless and always loses picture information. While with some techniques you can get very close to lossless, it's not perfect and these processes are usually only seen in real high end equipment or good non-realtime video processing software.

I actually ran a 15mbps 1080i recording from a local OTA station on the 1280x800 screen on my laptop here playing through VLC and all of the given deinterlacer options had noticable quality reduction from the original interlaced source. Then again, these are made for realtime use (especially considering the processor in this thing and the load on it from decoding the 1080i picture alone).

The box GUI looks S-Video quality on 480i, because that's what it is. Incoming S-Video is 480i, along with composite and RF. 480i on Component is only slightly better quality than the ones mentioned before.

But you are forgetting that the picture resolution doesn't equate to a static picture quality on it's own. Each source is going to be better or worse than the other. From worst to best you pretty much have the following:

RF > Composite > S-Video > Component (RGB or YPbPr) > HDMI. Though I will concede that Component is only marginally better than S-Video. The jump from RF or Composite up to S-Video is where the quality really improves as the Chroma and Luma channels are cleanly separated and some sets have real bad comb filters and will give you the classic screen door effect on some sources through RF or Composite.

It's weird. The other thing I noticed(and it bugged me) is the sidebars were skinnier on SD channels with box output set to 480i. With the box set to output 1080i all the time, the sidebars are the same size as sidebars on HD channels. If you're watching a SD channel or a HD channel broadcasting SD content in 4:3, there's really no way to tell the difference(other than actual PQ).

What about using 720p all the time on a 1080p set? Since the TV set is native 1080p and the box output would be 720p, you'd have a p===>p signal and there would be no delays, as the box always outputs 720p.

You are still losing picture quality at least on 1080i sources if you lock it to 720p. The loss of lines of resolution would be just as equal, relatively, as forcing to 1080i and going progressive>interlaced>progressive and losing information that way.

It's why that it was clearly mentioned to run at least 720p and 1080i from the box.

I doubt there's a scaler out there that would make me abandon exclusive 720p/1080i output. The box GUI looks S-Video quality on 480i, because that's what it is.

Assuming that the box GUI is 480p native (I believe it is), then turning off 480i but leaving 480p on should eliminate the GUI degradation. I do have 480i turned off because technically it is not supported over HDMI although it does typically work. If I hit "auto" in the box's output resolution setup it will not automatically include 480i. I see absolutely no difference in the GUI graphics whether the box is set to 480p, 720p or 1080i.

What about using 720p all the time on a 1080p set? Since the TV set is native 1080p and the box output would be 720p, you'd have a p===>p signal and there would be no delays, as the box always outputs 720p.

That doesn't fly for a 1080p display... if you run 720p only then you are forcing the 1080i signals to undergo unnecessary pixel mapping. If you let them go out at 1080i then the TV only needs to de-interlace.

From worst to best you pretty much have the following:

RF > Composite > S-Video > Component (RGB or YPbPr) > HDMI.

Agree, but RGB really is a huge leap ahead of YPbPr because of the complete absence of any color encoding/decoding processes. Our video chains begin (camera) and end (display) as RGB. The only reason we use YPbPr in the middle is that encoding the color information for storage and/or transmission requires only one full-bandwidth video channel as opposed to three full-bandwidth channels that RGB would require. While YPbPr does not quite limit color bandwidth the same way that composite or S-Video do, it still does require accurately matched encoders and decoders, which almost never happens in the real world. HDMI supports both YPbPr and RGB.

Assuming that the box GUI is 480p native (I believe it is), then turning off 480i but leaving 480p on should eliminate the GUI degradation. I do have 480i turned off because technically it is not supported over HDMI although it does typically work. If I hit "auto" in the box's output resolution setup it will not automatically include 480i. I see absolutely no difference in the GUI graphics whether the box is set to 480p, 720p or 1080i.



.

They might be 480p. When I use 480p, it looks better than 480i. But 480p is supposed to be a step up. I tried using just 480p and 720p going back and forth between WEWS and WEWHD. The GUI still looks "dull" on 480p. It doesn't "pop" as much as it does on 720p/1080i. The ODN3 graphics are actually very nice looking with their bright colors(which gets lost a bit at a lower resolution).

Another thing I noticed playing with box and TV is when set to 480i/p, it looks like a little bit of the picture is cropped top and bottom. I noticed it on CNN, where there's usually plenty of room under the "bottom line" banner, but on 480i/p, the text is almost at the bottom of the screen.

I hear that NYC is deploying the SMT-H3090 in Queens starting late next month. I expect San Diego to be deploying the newer 32xx boxes later this month. I have a feeling that the 3270 is really a renamed 3090.

HDMI and Component will provide virtually the same PQ. It is common for HDMI to get the nod because it's digital, but with so many HDMI issues with TWC I have been using component cables. HDMI is a greta idea that was poorly implemented with HDCP. Take away HDCP and the handshake issues go away. I've yet to get a TWC box to properly switch resolutions when run through an AVR (in my division anyway). I'm not sure if it's a SARA issue or a hardware issue. What's the consensus among Navigator users?

It's a problem with Navigator too. I just recently switched to component and go to the AVR with optical cable.

I expect San Diego to be deploying the newer 32xx boxes later this month.

Later this month as in two days? Or in May sometime??

It's a problem with Navigator too. I just recently switched to component and go to the AVR with optical cable.

What model box and what version of Navigator do you have?

Later this month as in two days? Or in May sometime??

Probably next month. This is the first division to deploy the newer 32xx Samsung boxes. 3260 is the HD-STB and 3270 is the HD-DVR. We don't know a whole lot about them. All I know is that the DVR has 320 GB storage, is black, has the stretch-o-vision guide, is a little lighter than the 8300HDC and newer than the 3090. Nothing is said about the 3260. All I know is that it's black and newer than the 3050.

It's a problem with Navigator too. I just recently switched to component and go to the AVR with optical cable.

What model box and what version of Navigator do you have?

Steve- Go to your options page and edit signature. It's helpful if you have your box models and Navigator versions in your signature. Also, add your location(city, state) to your profile.

If you are familiar with the diagnostics screen, you can find versions on the first page.

What model box and what version of Navigator do you have?
__________________
Commercial AV Design Engineer, CTS-D Certified
TWC-CLT / SMT-H3090 / ODN 3.1.0_11


I'll bet you love having that in your signature!! ;) :p

I think I had mentioned early last week that I ran into a problem where Navigator would crash on the Sammie, but the box would keep working with its (very limited) native GUI. When that happened, it took three reboots before Navigator loaded again. Well, same thing happened this weekend, except no amount of reboots, whether by pulling power or using the reboot function in the diagnostic screen, would get Navigator to load again. Box would just hang at the OCAP display... which is just before where the Mystro load countdown would usually start. After a few minutes the box would work under its native OS, but no vestige of ODN was present.

Eventually, I decided I had nothing to lose and I used the "Reset to Factory Defaults" in the password protected page of the Sammy's internal diagnostics. After resetting, the box rebooted and proceeded to load a fresh copy of ODN from from the headend... once it reloaded the box booted completely normally.

Had to re-enable the AC3 over HDMI option (which means the curious choice of disabling AC3 over HDMI is a Samsung choice) and lost my favorites, but everything else was intact, including recordings and schedules. Nice to know we have a safe means to force an OS reload.

One other interesting side effect of the factory reset is that the EDID information displayed in the 3090's HDMI diagnostics now accurately reflects the capabilities of the Onkyo 876 receiver it is connected to. Before it showed like 21 supported video modes (many seemingly identical entries repeated) and the supported audio modes were there but forced off the bottom of the screen. Seems like a bunch of junk information was cleared out.

Ah, VERY good post my friend, most interesting info there.

I AM curious exactly what that "native OS" you spoke of is/does. I have long suspected there is some form of RTOS that one MIGHT call an OS, but one that typically does noting on it's own, that all it does is create handles that the real OS can grab onto. I'm probably as guilty as any, but we do try and frame this stuff in terms we understand from other platforms (OS X and that thing from Redmond).

Actually, you can... or at least I can squeeze it back to AOR.

I can put either my TV (Samsung A550 LCD) or my receiver (Onkyo 876) in 4:3 output mode with a stretched 4:3 input and get OAR on the screen. This works perfectly well for History and Bio, which linearly stretch 4:3 out to 16:9, so the stretch process is perfectly reversible. It's less successful for TNT/TBS, since they use a non-linear stretch and the center of the screen looks a bit squished when squeezed back down to 4:3.

The key thing to keep in mind that everyone had AR controls both on the STB and on the TV. If I get a letterboxed and side pillared image on a HD channel I use the STB's zoom. If I get a letterboxed image on a SD channel, I HAVE to use the TVs zoom function. Between the 2, I can always get a non-distorted picture.

I can't argue with Nickdawg for turning off the 480i/p resolutions in his box... it's his eyes and and he probably is correct that it's better that way in his setup, but by the same token his setup is not the universal answer to what makes the for the best PQ. It always "depends".

Here's a tidbit... for a variety of reasons I have posted more than once, I "enable" all resolutions in my STB. But it seems to only "allow" 480i. Yet, I always see 480p when I tune to a SD channel.

The key thing to keep in mind that everyone had AR controls both on the STB and on the TV. If I get a letterboxed and side pillared image on a HD channel I use the STB's zoom. If I get a letterboxed image on a SD channel, I HAVE to use the TVs zoom function. Between the 2, I can always get a non-distorted picture.

I just leave everything exactly is it comes into the STB/TV. If it is surrounded by bars, it stays that way. I've found that blowing up windowboxed SD channels to fill the screen(on any output) produces an awful result. The PQ is already low enough and stretching/zooming only further degrades it. I've seen a friend's large TV with stretched SD. I always think my SD looks like turd, even set to OAR. Try stretching SD "digital" and it looks 100% worse.

But I can understand why you zoom. I see you still have Passport. I remember crappie Passport and its crappie GRAY side bars. Try watching a DARK show, like Supernatural, with bright gray torches on each side of the screen. I used to violate my rule against changing picture and zoomed 4:3 material to get away from the gray bars.

Ah, VERY good post my friend, most interesting info there.

I AM curious exactly what that "native OS" you spoke of is/does. I have long suspected there is some form of RTOS that one MIGHT call an OS, but one that typically does noting on it's own, that all it does is create handles that the real OS can grab onto. I'm probably as guilty as any, but we do try and frame this stuff in terms we understand from other platforms (OS X and that thing from Redmond).


I'll keep my fingers crossed that I don't see the native GUI again, lol. Actually, anybody with a 3090 can see what it looks like theme-wise (pastel blue/green popup backgrounds with white text) in a few places:

Look at the "Devices" menu inside the Navigator Settings menu.
When the box boots, a bit of the native GUI appears when the "OOB Provisioning" popup appears for a few seconds.
In the password protected diagnostics, there is an option to "Demo Native MMI", which cycles through a bunch of error messages.
In native mode, the INFO button brought up plain white channel numbers and station ID in top right corner. No aspect controls... everything was stretched and/or zoomed to about a 20% overscan. The cablecard appeared to correctly load authorizations... all tiers and pay services were authorized.

It probably doesn't help much, but the operations guide has GNU public software license info for...

GPL SOFTWARE

- Linux Kernel
- Busybox
- xfsprogs
- dhcpcd
- tftpd
- fdisk
LGPL SOFTWARE
- libuClibc.so
- ld.so
- libc.so
- libm.so
- libpthread.so

I just leave everything exactly is it comes into the STB/TV. If it is surrounded by bars, it stays that way. I've found that blowing up windowboxed SD channels to fill the screen(on any output) produces an awful result.

Me, too.

About the only letterboxed SD programming I watch is Ashes to Ashes on BBCA... sometimes I alternate between zoomed and normal and it looks pretty bad either way, lol, but not THAT much worse on zoomed.

To be honest, I watched letterboxed HD programming and widescreen DVDs for so long on a 4:3 CRT that it doesn't really ever phase me to see black bars or pillars... doesn't even register sometimes.

I just leave everything exactly is it comes into the STB/TV. If it is surrounded by bars, it stays that way. I've found that blowing up windowboxed SD channels to fill the screen(on any output) produces an awful result. The PQ is already low enough and stretching/zooming only further degrades it. I've seen a friend's large TV with stretched SD. I always think my SD looks like turd, even set to OAR. Try stretching SD "digital" and it looks 100% worse.

But I can understand why you zoom. I see you still have Passport. I remember crappie Passport and its crappie GRAY side bars. Try watching a DARK show, like Supernatural, with bright gray torches on each side of the screen. I used to violate my rule against changing picture and zoomed 4:3 material to get away from the gray bars.

Oh I have another "trick" to deal with those light gray sidebars (I set 4:3 as my primary output on the STB!). I use zoom on 2 occasions, one on a "4-black bars" on a HD channel, the second a letterboxed SD show. Yes I initially thought I'd kill PQ, but it isn't near as bad as I had thought (my guess is the scaler in my Sammie is pretty good).

Me, too.

About the only letterboxed SD programming I watch is Ashes to Ashes on BBCA... sometimes I alternate between zoomed and normal and it looks pretty bad either way, lol, but not THAT much worse on zoomed.

To be honest, I watched letterboxed HD programming and widescreen DVDs for so long on a 4:3 CRT that it doesn't really ever phase me to see black bars or pillars... doesn't even register sometimes.

Just as an aside, a lot of letterboxed SD that I used to zoom are now on those channels HD outlets; mostly they seem to be SciFi shows I admit I tend to watch.

I'll bet you love having that in your signature!! ;) :p

Well... :(

...let's just say I'm willing to go along for the good of the group, lol. :cool:

Actually, I think I have been more than fair towards TW in these threads,
actually defending them more than not, considering my history with the SOB's. :mad:

Me, too.

About the only letter-boxed SD programming I watch is Ashes to Ashes on BBCA... sometimes I alternate between zoomed and normal and it looks pretty bad either way, lol, but not THAT much worse on zoomed.

To be honest, I watched letter-boxed HD programming and wide-screen DVDs for so long on a 4:3 CRT that it doesn't really ever phase me to see black bars or pillars... doesn't even register sometimes.

I hate SD programing with side-bars! If something is not in HD, I will often watch in SD just to get the full screen. (I use the Stretch Mode.) I have a Samsung 40" HD TV and want to use all screen space associated with it.

Letter-boxed side-bars in SD look more "Normal" to me, as I am used to their "Movie Theater" image.

Jack

I hate SD programing with side-bars! If something is not in HD, I will often watch in SD just to get the full screen. (I use the Stretch Mode.) I have a Samsung 40" HD TV and want to use all screen space associated with it.

Letter-boxed side-bars in SD look more "Normal" to me, as I am used to their "Movie Theater" image.

Jack

That's why we have aspect ratio controls... to select what makes us happy. :)

Biggest flat panel screen I could go with and keep my wall unit was 37". 4:3 SD programming has almost the exact same image size that my 32" CRT had in the same wall unit. In a dark room, black bars/black bezel/dark space in wall unit all blend together and it looks very much like the 32" CRT did (size wise... I wish I still had the same SD PQ as that Panny CRT had). Anyway, AOR 4:3 looks very "normal" to me in that situation.

My step-mother could use you for moral support when she's arguing that she "wants to see all her inches", lol. :p

Just received the H3090 HD-DVR from Time Warner. I've been unable to pass a dolby digital 5.1 signal over HDMI. Anyone else experiencing this issue?

Just received the H3090 HD-DVR from Time Warner. I've been unable to pass a dolby digital 5.1 signal over HDMI. Anyone else experiencing this issue?

I think you need to go into the diagnostic menu by pressing Vol+ and info on the box. It will go into some menu. There is a menu that says Enable AC3 over HDMI. Press select and you'll need to type in a password. Password is 3090. Once your done exit out and it should work just fine.

Just received the H3090 HD-DVR from Time Warner. I've been unable to pass a dolby digital 5.1 signal over HDMI. Anyone else experiencing this issue?


You need to enter the Samsung diagnostics pages to change a setting to allow AC3 over HDMI:

Enter diagnostics by holding [Vol+] and [INFO] simultaneously on the front panel for about 10 seconds, then release.
Once you enter the diagnostic mode, use the arrow keys (remote) to enter the "Extended Diags"
Once in Extended Diags, go to "Diagnostics" - it is password protected... "3090"
Once you are on the password protected Diagnostics page, enter "14" then "Select" to toggle AC3 support over HDMI. Change is instantaneous.
Hit "Exit" a few times to get out of diagnostics page.
Pics of the diagnostics screens posted here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16324711&postcount=7715

Let us know how it goes!

Just received the H3090 HD-DVR from Time Warner. I've been unable to pass a dolby digital 5.1 signal over HDMI. Anyone else experiencing this issue?

what city are u in?

Biggest flat panel screen I could go with and keep my wall unit was 37". 4:3 SD programming has almost the exact same image size that my 32" CRT had in the same wall unit. In a dark room, black bars/black bezel/dark space in wall unit all blend together and it looks very much like the 32" CRT did (size wise... I wish I still had the same SD PQ as that Panny CRT had). Anyway, AOR 4:3 looks very "normal" to me in that situation.



man, i miss a day of this thread and have to catch up on about 4 pages. whew.
---------------
every time i go to my father in laws i try to talk him into getting a bigger, newer TV. his 27" CRT just looks bad, somethings is wrong with it. my cheepo walmart black friday CRT's look alot better. but he says theres nothing wrong with it, so he wont buy newer. and he simply refuses to go bigger because it wont fit his wall unit. and if he doesnt have the wall unit mother in law wont have anywhere to display her doll collection:eek:
he loves my 60". if there's any sporting event he wants to see he comes for a visit.

man, i miss a day of this thread and have to catch up on about 4 pages. whew.
---------------
every time i go to my father in laws i try to talk him into getting a bigger, newer TV. his 27" CRT just looks bad, somethings is wrong with it. my cheepo walmart black friday CRT's look alot better. but he says theres nothing wrong with it, so he wont buy newer. and he simply refuses to go bigger because it wont fit his wall unit. and if he doesnt have the wall unit mother in law wont have anywhere to display her doll collection:eek:
he loves my 60". if there's any sporting event he wants to see he comes for a visit.

Yeah... busy yesterday and today.

Nobody is attached to my wall unit or its contents except me... I haven't found anything affordable that I like and that will house all of my electronics, DVDs, BDs, CDs, LPs(!) and accomodate a bigger TV. I don't sit more than about 8' or 9' from the display so 37" is not too bad. There was a 40" Toshiba with a narrow bezel that would have fit, but price was high and reviews were low, so that wasn't an option.

All is not lost... when I do find something there are plenty of places to move the 37" set to... remember, I'm the one with 11 active TVs in the house, lol. Wait... technically its now 12 because I just added a 22" display in the wall unit above the 37" for PoP.

What model box and what version of Navigator do you have?

I have a 8300HDC but not sure which version of navigator but I'm in the Kansas City Market. I don't know how to check for the version but maybe I'll try to find out and check tonight when I get off work.
I also read somewhere that Kansas City should be able to get the Samsung HT3090 but haven't had time to call and find out. I'm off thursday so if they got em I'll go get one and try HDMI set up again.

Steve- Go to your options page and edit signature. It's helpful if you have your box models and Navigator versions in your signature. Also, add your location(city, state) to your profile.

If you are familiar with the diagnostics screen, you can find versions on the first page.

Done deal... I don't know how to get to diagnostics page.

I have a 8300HDC but not sure which version of navigator but I'm in the Kansas City Market. I don't know how to check for the version but maybe I'll try to find out and check tonight when I get off work.
I also read somewhere that Kansas City should be able to get the Samsung HT3090 but haven't had time to call and find out. I'm off thursday so if they got em I'll go get one and try HDMI set up again.

I believe from what I've seen from others you should be on ODN 3.1.1_3 if you are in KC. I never had any HDMI or resolution switching issues with my 8300HDC running ODN 3.1.0_11 (the version just before yours) and nothing is any different (better or worse) in that regard with my Samsung. If you leave all your output resolutions open, you will see a small delay when you switch between channels with different resolutions, but that is mainly a function of the TV locking up to the new resolution. If you were seeing more than that, or the box was hanging on a res change, you may just have a problem box.

The good news is that, so far, all of the Sammie problems have been here in Charlotte, where we are still running an older version of ODN. We don't really know if that makes a difference, or its just because we have had them for a few weeks longer than everyone else so that the issues have had more time to surface. If you do pick one up, your feedback would be appreciated (problems here have been mainly missed recordings).

Done deal... I don't know how to get to diagnostics page.

For the ODN version, on either the box or the remote, hold down the Select button till the Mail indicator lights on the box, then press the Down key. First page of diagnostics shows ODN version near bottom of screen (3rd entry from bottom?)

I believe from what I've seen from others you should be on ODN 3.1.1_3 if you are in KC. I never had any HDMI or resolution switching issues with my 8300HDC running ODN 3.1.0_11 (the version just before yours) and nothing is any different (better or worse) in that regard with my Samsung. If you leave all your output resolutions open, you will see a small delay when you switch between channels with different resolutions, but that is mainly a function of the TV locking up to the new resolution. If you were seeing more than that, or the box was hanging on a res change, you may just have a problem box.

The good news is that, so far, all of the Sammie problems have been here in Charlotte, where we are still running an older version of ODN. We don't really know if that makes a difference, or its just because we have had them for a few weeks longer than everyone else so that the issues have had more time to surface. If you do pick one up, your feedback would be appreciated (problems here have been mainly missed recordings).

If they got them I will be getting one Thursday and will report back by Friday.
Not only was i having a problem with picture flickering during resolution changes and the only way to fix it was to change from HD station to a SD station then back to HD station again. Sometimes had to do it more than once. It wasn't a constant thing but happened at least once a day.
Also when I tried the only output one resolution it would work except for one small problem. The second I turned my AVR off (into standby mode) the 8300HDC would automatically default back to 480p, 720p, 1080i resolutions. weird.

For the ODN version, on either the box or the remote, hold down the Select button till the Mail indicator lights on the box, then press the Down key. First page of diagnostics shows ODN version near bottom of screen (3rd entry from bottom?)

Thanks, I will try it tonight when I get home. also do you know if the trick about enabling AC3 over HDMI will work with the 8300HDC like it does with the Samsung?

Thanks, I will try it tonight when I get home. also do you know if the trick about enabling AC3 over HDMI will work with the 8300HDC like it does with the Samsung?

I used AC3/DD out of the coax port to non-HDMI receiver when I had the 8300HDC, so I don't know that answer. At the time the HDMI only went to TV, which I never used audio in/out of at all.

I thought I would share the difference I noticed when switching from HDMI to component cables from my TV to the 8300HDC. This is probably well known but maybe not.

Using component cables the sound level from the TV is lower, I have to turn up the sound to compensate. It isn't a crazy difference but I did notice it.

Also, not sure if this has anything to do with component or HDMI cables being used but I have my box set to "STRETCH" because my wife and kid can't stand the black bars. The stretch seems to be much better than the "ZOOM" as I don't lose so much of the picture. Anyway, with the box set to stretch it does so with the SD channels but I noticed last night that when I tune to a HD channel the output is automatically changed to "NORMAL" and when switched back to SD channel it is in "STRETCH" again. I confirmed this by using the apect # button on the remote to see what mode it was in on each channel. The only reason I found this was because one of our local channels when broadcasting in HD keeps the black bars on sides of picture and I thought it was odd that it wasn't stretched.

Has anyone tried hooking up an SATA drive to the Samsung box?

I believe from what I've seen from others you should be on ODN 3.1.1_3 if you are in KC. I never had any HDMI or resolution switching issues with my 8300HDC running ODN 3.1.0_11 (the version just before yours) and nothing is any different (better or worse) in that regard with my Samsung. If you leave all your output resolutions open, you will see a small delay when you switch between channels with different resolutions, but that is mainly a function of the TV locking up to the new resolution. If you were seeing more than that, or the box was hanging on a res change, you may just have a problem box.

The good news is that, so far, all of the Sammie problems have been here in Charlotte, where we are still running an older version of ODN. We don't really know if that makes a difference, or its just because we have had them for a few weeks longer than everyone else so that the issues have had more time to surface. If you do pick one up, your feedback would be appreciated (problems here have been mainly missed recordings).

Thanks for letting me know how to get to the diagnostics page. I just went there and turns out that I am on ODN 3.1.0_11 just like you. I don't get alot of missed recordings though but I do get alot of not wanted recordings. If I go and delete recordings that I don't need alot of times by the next day they are recording again.

Thanks for letting me know how to get to the diagnostics page. I just went there and turns out that I am on ODN 3.1.0_11 just like you. I don't get alot of missed recordings though but I do get alot of not wanted recordings. If I go and delete recordings that I don't need alot of times by the next day they are recording again.

I think Charlotte and KC were the earliest systems to get 3.1.0... now were the last to get 3.1.1... I never had any problems with it on the 8300HDC. In fact I took a lot of crap here when I was reporting good things about the HDC/ODN 3.1 combo because EVERYBODY else was so unhappy with earlier ODN versions on the HDC. Nobody believed me, lol.

We still don't really know if 3.1.0 vs 3.1.1 on the Sammies makes any difference... just that Charlotte seems to be where all the missed recording reports are coming from. As they are deployed elsewhere we'll find out... Charlotte seems to have had a 2-3 week jump on everybody else so that could be it too... just more time for them to get out and problems to crop up.

I have no problem deleteing shows once I've watched them, but they are still (purposely) scheduled in series manager for future recordings, so I expect them to record again at next episode. Have you deleted them from the series manager? I haven't tried to do that yet in the Sammie, but I never had any problems removing shows from series manager with the 8300HDC.

Has anyone tried hooking up an SATA drive to the Samsung box?

None reported here or in the Charlotte TWC thread...

I have the hardware ready and I was ready to test and then I started having the missed recordings and crashed Navigator problems and didn't want to add a new variable into the equation. My big Monday night of recordings went fine this week. For some reason, Wednesdays have been a problem for two weeks in a row. If I get by tonight's sessions and no more Navigator crashes I'll probably try the eSATA this weekend.

My incentive is low, too, since I haven't gotten this one past 25% full yet... but I will try it out.

You need to enter the Samsung diagnostics pages to change a setting to allow AC3 over HDMI:

Enter diagnostics by holding [Vol+] and [INFO] simultaneously on the front panel for about 10 seconds, then release.
Once you enter the diagnostic mode, use the arrow keys (remote) to enter the "Extended Diags"
Once in Extended Diags, go to "Diagnostics" - it is password protected... "3090"
Once you are on the password protected Diagnostics page, enter "14" then "Select" to toggle AC3 support over HDMI. Change is instantaneous.
Hit "Exit" a few times to get out of diagnostics page.
Pics of the diagnostics screens posted here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16324711&postcount=7715

Let us know how it goes!
Thanks!!! Worked like a charm. I wonder why this isn't enable from the onset. By the way I live in Charlotte.

Thanks, I will try it tonight when I get home. also do you know if the trick about enabling AC3 over HDMI will work with the 8300HDC like it does with the Samsung?

On 8300HDC, AC3 over HDMI is on by default.

Thanks!!! Worked like a charm. I wonder why this isn't enable from the onset. By the way I live in Charlotte.It's bizarre that, having such a setting, it isn't on by default or at least in the general user interface. If I was using one of those things, I'd be pissed--HDMI is supposed to carry both sound and video. The setting in the normal GUI for HDMI/AC3/Stereo is all that you need.

It's bizarre that, having such a setting, it isn't on by default or at least in the general user interface. If I was using one of those things, I'd be pissed--HDMI is supposed to carry both sound and video. The setting in the normal GUI for HDMI/AC3/Stereo is all that you need.

Well... it does carry sound and video by default, its just that the sound is PCM by default on HDMI. The only reasoning I can think of is that the PCM is more or less universal... it will work just about anywhere, including directly to TV's that support only PCM 2.0. It should read the EDID and make the choice... but they took the "safe" way. BTW... PCM only over HDMI is a Samsung factory default, not a TW choice. It'll probably be months before the rank and file TW techs learn about the setting, too.

What's really bizzare is that they hid such a necessary setting in a password protected diagnostic screen that is already hidden to most folks who don't have a clue about any of the diagnostics. If I hadn't been adventurous enough to find the setting, I'm sure somebody else HERE would have eventually found it... but what about the other 99% of TW customers... they'd never have a clue.

It should read the EDID and make the choice... but they took the "safe" way.Exactly--it should read the EDID, implementation of which is required by HDMI sinks. I don't know why this would be considered "safe"--it's just a way to piss people off who are running HDMI through their AVRs (like me). Hell--the damn thing parses the EDID for display in its diags (for which I gave them praise)--it knows whether the sink supports AC3 or not :rolleyes:. If it can't get the EDID, the safe thing would be to assume that the sink doesn't support sound.
What's really bizzare is that they hid such a necessary setting in a password protected diagnostic screen that is already hidden to most folks who don't have a clue about any of the diagnostics. If I hadn't been adventurous enough to find the setting, I'm sure somebody else HERE would have eventually found it... but what about the other 99% of TW customers... they'd never have a clue.99.9% of people running HDMI through their AVRs will not find this setting. Hiding it in a password-protected diag page was criminal.

None reported here or in the Charlotte TWC thread...

I have the hardware ready and I was ready to test and then I started having the missed recordings and crashed Navigator problems and didn't want to add a new variable into the equation. My big Monday night of recordings went fine this week. For some reason, Wednesdays have been a problem for two weeks in a row. If I get by tonight's sessions and no more Navigator crashes I'll probably try the eSATA this weekend.

My incentive is low, too, since I haven't gotten this one past 25% full yet... but I will try it out.

yeah see ive already gotten mine past 60 percent once. lol 160gb is definitely not enough..i wonder why we don't have the option of 320gb...regardless im gonna buy a my dvr expander this weekend...hopefully a 1tb model one and play around with that menu u posted. lol

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/jcalabria/SMT-H3090/SMT-H3090_Diags21.jpg

yeah see ive already gotten mine past 60 percent once. lol 160gb is definitely not enough..i wonder why we don't have the option of 320gb...regardless im gonna buy a my dvr expander this weekend...hopefully a 1tb model one and play around with that menu u posted. lol

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/jcalabria/SMT-H3090/SMT-H3090_Diags21.jpg

We have the 320GB HDDs in the Samsung boxes in Charlotte. That's why I'm not getting past 25%.

The eSATA drive I have is a 250GB unit so, IF it works, the combined storage would be over 500GB.

But I can understand why you zoom. I see you still have Passport. I remember crappie Passport and its crappie GRAY side bars. Through a combination of DVR and TV aspect settings you can get black bars made by the TV and no bars from the DVR (without stretching). Looks nice and I would think could be done with all TVs? If I remember, it seems backwards, like you set the DVR to tell your TV it is 4:3 and the TV to dot-to-dot for HD (for Sharp, full screen type mode for others?), stretch for SD and SD has black pillars (stretched to 4:3 screen but already there!) and widescreen/HD goes to the edges properly. /Dan

I think Charlotte and KC were the earliest systems to get 3.1.0... now were the last to get 3.1.1... I never had any problems with it on the 8300HDC. In fact I took a lot of crap here when I was reporting good things about the HDC/ODN 3.1 combo because EVERYBODY else was so unhappy with earlier ODN versions on the HDC. Nobody believed me, lol.

We still don't really know if 3.1.0 vs 3.1.1 on the Sammies makes any difference... just that Charlotte seems to be where all the missed recording reports are coming from. As they are deployed elsewhere we'll find out... Charlotte seems to have had a two week jump on everybody else so that could be it too... just more time for them to get out and problems to crop up.

I have no problem deleteing shows once I've watched them, but they are still (purposely) scheduled in series manager for future recordings, so I expect them to record again at next episode. Have you deleted them from the series manager? I haven't tried to do that yet in the Sammie, but I never had any problems removing shows from series manager with the 8300HDC.

Yeah, that's what I meant to say was i go to series manager every night and make sure to delete all unwanted recordings and for some reason unknown alot of the shows are back the next day and have to be deleted again even if the box hasn't rebooted (after reboot i have to do this).

On 8300HDC, AC3 over HDMI is on by default.

That may be software version specific because my 8300HDC wouldn't pass DD 5.1 when HDMI was selected when I had TV --> HDMI --> DVR then
DVR -->Toslink Optical --> Home Theatre

That may be software version specific because my 8300HDC wouldn't pass DD 5.1 when HDMI was selected when I had TV --> HDMI --> DVR then
DVR -->Toslink Optical --> Home Theatre

I meant when you have HDMI connections DVR -> Receiver ->TV and select HDMI in Devices menu, and you Receiver can handle DD over HDMI input. I checked this and it worked for me with 2.4.10_11. But, once a day or so, DVR would freeze and will need rebooting, so after a couple of weeks, I went back to the setup like yours. In that setup, (this is an educated guess) DVR will negotiate with the TV, and the TV would likely respond something along the lines of "I only support 2 channels" or "you can send me DD, but I will downconvert it to 2 channels anyway", so the DVR sends 2 channels to TV, and to Toslink as well (not smart enough to send a different thing). Hence you need to set the thing to DD. This is quite annoying now in 3.1.1_3, as the setting gets reset to HDMI every time I turn the TV on/off. I eventually made a macro on my universal remote to invoke the correct menus and change it back to DD, so it is a bit more tolerable.

I meant when you have HDMI connections DVR -> Receiver ->TV and select HDMI in Devices menu, and you Receiver can handle DD over HDMI input. I checked this and it worked for me with 2.4.10_11. But, once a day or so, DVR would freeze and will need rebooting, so after a couple of weeks, I went back to the setup like yours. In that setup, (this is an educated guess) DVR will negotiate with the TV, and the TV would likely respond something along the lines of "I only support 2 channels" or "you can send me DD, but I will downconvert it to 2 channels anyway", so the DVR sends 2 channels to TV, and to Toslink as well (not smart enough to send a different thing). Hence you need to set the thing to DD.That's exactly what's happening--the EDID from your television tells it that it can only handle 2.0 or 2.1 channel sound. (I don't think that it can tell it "I can handle AC3 but I'll downconvert it to 2 channels", though it could tell it, "I can handle AC3; I only have 2 or 2.1 speakers". In any case, if the television says that it can handle AC3, however many speakers it has, the correct choice for the DVR is to send AC3, since the television could synthesize some kind of fake surround through its two speakers).

Having determined that the television cannot handle AC3, the DVR mixes two channel sound for it. Having done that, that's all that it has to transmit on the other digital outputs. The HDMI/DD/Stereo setting overrides what the television's EDID says and sends no HDMI sound to the television if HDMI is not selected, and outputs DD5.1 or stereo sound from its other digital audio connections.

It's a shame that the software resets that setting every time you power the television on and off. Very annoying bug.

Alright had my first major problem with my 3090 box....just a few moments ago I awake because the dog is going crazy barking at 2 am...After checking on the poor cocker spaniel to make sure everything was alright and after a failed attempt of going back to sleep i turned on the tv and box....everything was ok until i hit the guide botton...the guide was zoomed at about 3x!!!

The box was still fully operational but zoom guide was very very annoying and certain areas were not viewable...I then tried accessing the main menu and after two failed attempts I cut the box off and then back on...NOTHING BUT A BLACK BLANK SCREEN...however the Native OS was still operational so i went into the diagnostic screen and simply rebooted the box....The problem is this crappy software...not the boxes...Who does TWC have writing these programs??? 5th graders!?

ok well maybe im overacting but i just thought i'd share with you all. Back to bed I go. lol gnight! and hopefully that will be my only and last issue with my sammy box.

Thanks for letting me know how to get to the diagnostics page. I just went there and turns out that I am on ODN 3.1.0_11 just like you. I don't get alot of missed recordings though but I do get alot of not wanted recordings. If I go and delete recordings that I don't need alot of times by the next day they are recording again.

Well this is crazy but I was just watching a On Demand show and the box just decided to reboot. I thought that was kinda wierd so I went into the Diagnostics again and guess what? I am now on 3.1.1_3 so we'll see how it reacts now. I called TWC today to inquire about the Samsung 3090 being available in KC now since I had read it a couple places on the net and the rep told me she knew a new box was coming but thought it was a month out. I'll call back tomorrow and find out for sure and hopefully I'll be getting one.

I meant when you have HDMI connections DVR -> Receiver ->TV and select HDMI in Devices menu, and you Receiver can handle DD over HDMI input. I checked this and it worked for me with 2.4.10_11. But, once a day or so, DVR would freeze and will need rebooting, so after a couple of weeks, I went back to the setup like yours. In that setup, (this is an educated guess) DVR will negotiate with the TV, and the TV would likely respond something along the lines of "I only support 2 channels" or "you can send me DD, but I will downconvert it to 2 channels anyway", so the DVR sends 2 channels to TV, and to Toslink as well (not smart enough to send a different thing). Hence you need to set the thing to DD. This is quite annoying now in 3.1.1_3, as the setting gets reset to HDMI every time I turn the TV on/off. I eventually made a macro on my universal remote to invoke the correct menus and change it back to DD, so it is a bit more tolerable.

Well if you have the Samsung box you can now go back to the post where it explains how to enable the AC3 over HDMI to get it to work but after I was in diagnostics of the 8300HDC I didn't see any way to do it. As a matter of fact I never even saw AC3 mentioned at all.

Since that option is in Samsung's own diagnostics, I have a strong feeling it varies from box to box or manufacturer to manufacturer. So the SA boxes probably do not have the option, have it buried much deeper than any of us can get to, or are hardcoded to be locked to PCM over HDMI.

There IS a possibility though that Navigator can be written to control this option, but I'd have high doubts they will humor that option.

Keep that in mind. Any options provided in Navigator's own GUI are, under normal circumstances, going to be available cross-platform between different boxes and manufacturers. Stuff that is in the manufacturer's diagnostics, of course, is going to be limited to just their equipment and possibly even vary between model based on what features they are built with. Some options CAN be programmed into Navigator, but it needs a pipeline to control that specific feature on the box down to the OCAP base and the RTOS on the box. But then it comes down to Time Warner giving a crap to add it, and they'd be even less inclined to add it if the feature to be controlled is specific to one or a small few models of STBs.

Well if you have the Samsung box you can now go back to the post where it explains how to enable the AC3 over HDMI to get it to work but after I was in diagnostics of the 8300HDC I didn't see any way to do it. As a matter of fact I never even saw AC3 mentioned at all.

I have 8300HDC, and as I mentioned, it will send AC3 over HDMI if the device on the other end replies that it can handle it, else it will send PCM, which is a correct way to handle that, IMO. The Samsung issue is that the DVR, by default, sends PCM over HDMI no matter what is on the other side (completely wrong choice, IMO); if you go to password-protected diagnostics and change the setting, then it will behave like 8300HDC. Note that there is no setting to send AC3 over HDMI regardless of what the device on the other side replies.

SA 8300HDC - ODN 3.1.1_SP1 in NY HV Market
HDMI to Samsung HL61A750, audio via toslink to Onkyo AVR.

I called TWC technical support last night to 'log' my complaint about the fact that with the latest ODN upgrade, the audio defaults to "HDMI" on every power-on, and I have to manually switch it back to DD.

The csr, although very nice, told me to exchange my HDC for a new one, since this was a hardware problem that it couldn't accept this "software upgrade".

Anyone heard that one before?

Doesn't make any sense to me, since everyone else on this forum is seeing the same issue (at least I think so). I tried to argue that with her, to no avail. I really don't want to trade in my box, because o/t this new issue, it's been working very well.

Who does TWC have writing these programs??? 5th graders!?

Not to worry, the one programmer in the Far East they have doing the software has just been sent to school to learn English... so by next year, he should know enough English to then attend programmers school in the US. So by 2011, he should be able to deal withy some of the troublesome issues with the code he has written... maybe.

SA 8300HDC - ODN 3.1.1_3 in NY HV Market
HDMI to Samsung HL61A750, audio via toslink to Onkyo AVR.

I called TWC technical support last night to 'log' my complaint about the fact that with the latest ODN upgrade, the audio defaults to "HDMI" on every power-on, and I have to manually switch it back to DD.

The csr, although very nice, told me to exchange my HDC for a new one, since this was a hardware problem that it couldn't accept this "software upgrade".

Anyone heard that one before?

Doesn't make any sense to me, since everyone else on this forum is seeing the same issue (at least I think so). I tried to argue that with her, to no avail. I really don't want to trade in my box, because o/t this new issue, it's been working very well.


I have the same problem and it only happened after the latest update from TWC last month. It is definitely a software problem, because my DD stayed on all the time even when I am using HDMi before the update. Now everytime I turn it off it defaults back to HDMI even though I had set it to DD. TWC better fix this soon, it is getting annoying.

I have the same problem and it only happened after the latest update from TWC last month. It is definitely a software problem, because my DD stayed on all the time even when I am using HDMi before the update. Now everytime I turn it off it defaults back to HDMI even though I had set it to DD. TWC better fix this soon, it is getting annoying.

The box really isn't "defaulting" back to HDMI, it is setting it to HDMI when it establishes the link to your TV. If I leave both my DVR and TV on, but cycle through my TV inputs all the way around, the DVR ends up with HDMI audio set when I return to the DVR input. This was likely intentional as I'm sure before this change some CSR would get calls from people who just hooked up their DVR to the TV using just an HDMI cable and wondered why there was no sound.
If they could preserve that behavior but also add an "advanced" setting to stick to DD, that would be ideal. They should relabel the existing option as "auto-detect HDMI".

The box really isn't "defaulting" back to HDMI, it is setting it to HDMI when it establishes the link to your TV......

You're right, because when I first turn everything on, I see the AVR come on with DD briefly, then, as soon as the HDC establishes a HDMI connection with the TV, it switches back to PCM.

So, if this was indeed an intentional change, sounds like my only recourse is going to be to abandon HDMI, and switch to component video? (Either that or keep manually changing it EVERY time....ugh.)

You're right, because when I first turn everything on, I see the AVR come on with DD briefly, then, as soon as the HDC establishes a HDMI connection with the TV, it switches back to PCM.

So, if this was indeed an intentional change, sounds like my only recourse is going to be to abandon HDMI, and switch to component video? (Either that or keep manually changing it EVERY time....ugh.)Yeah, that's what I finally did. It fixed the problem and (to my eye) didn't hurt the PQ. Still, I wish they'd realize that many people want to send the sound directly to their receiver and not have it affected by the HDMI handshaking.

yeah, but with my tv connected to my dvr via HDMi and an optical cable connected to my a/v receiver for audio, my DD setting stayed on every time even when I turned off the tv/cable box until this stupid update last month. It was so perfect.

I want to use HDMI only because I had that input professionally calibrated

TWC definitely messed with something.


Also there are three settings in the Digital Audio section on the TWC settings menu I believe.
HDMI
Dolby Digital
Other

When I turn on the cable box/tv. the audio option is on HDMI. I then click on DD, and I get DD, but it defaults back to HDMI each time when I turn off the cable box/tv.

There is a new version of Navigator coming out some time this year. It will fix the bugs in the 32xx Samsung boxes. It might add some new features. I hope they fix the password protected AC3 over HDMI. That might be bad for the techs since they would have to go into that menu just to enable it. The SMT-H3090 should come out in other divisions soon. San Diego won't be getting any type of Samsung boxes until they rollout a new version of Navigator.

There is a new version of Navigator coming out some time this year. It will fix the bugs in the 32xx Samsung boxes. It might add some new features. I hope they fix the password protected AC3 over HDMI. That might be bad for the techs since they would have to go into that menu just to enable it. The SMT-H3090 should come out in other divisions soon. San Diego won't be getting any type of Samsung boxes until they rollout a new version of Navigator.

How do u know this? sources please!!! lol:)

The President of TWC San Diego.

There is a new version of Navigator coming out some time this year. It will fix the bugs in the 32xx Samsung boxes. It might add some new features. I hope they fix the password protected AC3 over HDMI. That might be bad for the techs since they would have to go into that menu just to enable it. The SMT-H3090 should come out in other divisions soon. San Diego won't be getting any type of Samsung boxes until they rollout a new version of Navigator.

What about the Distort-O-Vision IPG/GUI? That HAS to be one of the things fixed. PLEEEEEEEEAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!! ;)

Probably still has the stretch-o-vision UI. The bugs were minor but troublesome. They aren't major but could bother people.

God, I'd be thrilled to get new hardware here with a version of Navigator that supports eSATA. I hate SARA, but I love having the 1TB of eSATA storage plus the 160GB internal. I used to constantly have to monitor the drive space because they added so much HD (We now have about 80 HD channels) but now I can record all I want without worry. I currently have like 40 shows on the drive and am only using about 20% of the space. I have no idea when our division or ANY SARA division is ever going to start rolling out new hardware and software. However, I will say that the SDV with SARA is performing perfectly for me and they are rolling out HD like mad here. The originally announced like ten channels and we got like 40, so that was a decent surprise and one which kept me from switching to DirecTV.

There is a new version of Navigator coming out some time this year. It will fix the bugs in the 32xx Samsung boxes. It might add some new features. I hope they fix the password protected AC3 over HDMI. That might be bad for the techs since they would have to go into that menu just to enable it. The SMT-H3090 should come out in other divisions soon. San Diego won't be getting any type of Samsung boxes until they rollout a new version of Navigator.

Let's hope that Keyword Search and/or Manual Recording will be on it. Sounds good!

Jack

There is a new version of Navigator coming out some time this year. It will fix the bugs in the 32xx Samsung boxes. It might add some new features. I hope they fix the password protected AC3 over HDMI. That might be bad for the techs since they would have to go into that menu just to enable it. The SMT-H3090 should come out in other divisions soon. San Diego won't be getting any type of Samsung boxes until they rollout a new version of Navigator.

Word on the Charlotte TWC thread is that some folks here are now getting handed 3090's with 160GB drives. I think I'll keep my 320 and hope for new ODN software soon. In the meantime I will continue to schedule the Panny DVR as backup.

BTW - no problems or missed recordings this week at all after forcing the factory reset and ODN reload Saturday night. Even Criminal Minds, which had not recorded in weeks, worked fine.

Word on the Charlotte TWC thread is that some folks here are now getting handed 3090's with 160GB drives. I think I'll keep my 320 and hope for new ODN software soon. In the meantime I will continue to schedule the Panny DVR as backup.

BTW - no problems or missed recordings this week at all after forcing the factory reset and ODN reload Saturday night. Even Criminal Minds, which had not recorded in weeks, worked fine.

I'm one of the Charlotte folks who got a 3090, with a 160 drive (checked out the label on the hard-drive last night to confirm) and as I've posted on the Charlotte TWC forum, I've had and continue to have problems recording. For example in just the last few days, "The Mentalist", "CSI", and "Southland" all failed to record. And even trying to manually record them was unsuccessful.

I'm not a happy camper. :mad: However with the TV season wrapping up, for the most part, I'm going to hold off a few weeks before trading my 3090 in and hopefully by then, all the 160s will have been given out and only 320s will be in the system.

Are you running Navigator .11 or .13. Seems like the newest version .13 seems to have cleaned a lot of the problems up...

I'm one of the Charlotte folks who got a 3090, with a 160 drive (checked out the label on the hard-drive last night to confirm) and as I've posted on the Charlotte TWC forum, I've had and continue to have problems recording. For example in just the last few days, "The Mentalist", "CSI", and "Southland" all failed to record. And even trying to manually record them was unsuccessful.

I'm not a happy camper. :mad: However with the TV season wrapping up, for the most part, I'm going to hold off a few weeks before trading my 3090 in and hopefully by then, all the 160s will have been given out and only 320s will be in the system.

Your missed recordings were CBS & NBC... same as the majority of mine. Also missed one FOX... but never any ABC, CW (only Smallville, before I hear any jokes, lol) or any cable network. The majority of missed recordings, by far, have been CBS. Also, the very first problems reported were NCAA tournament... on CBS.

I'm one of the Charlotte folks who got a 3090, with a 160 drive (checked out the label on the hard-drive last night to confirm) and as I've posted on the Charlotte TWC forum, I've had and continue to have problems recording. For example in just the last few days, "The Mentalist", "CSI", and "Southland" all failed to record. And even trying to manually record them was unsuccessful.



have you tried the factory reset as jcalabria did? i havent had to try it as i only had the one program not record (NCAA). just wondering if it would work for you too.

Are you running Navigator .11 or .13. Seems like the newest version .13 seems to have cleaned a lot of the problems up...

We are on 3.1.0_11 in Charlotte. I have noted a few times that the recording problems seem to be exclusive to Charlotte, so it could be the difference. Everyone else except K.C. seems to be on 3.1.1_3 and have not reported missed recordings here in the Navigator thread. But other divisions have not had them as long as we have, either... mine worked fine for the first 2-3 weeks before it started acting up.

have you tried the factory reset as jcalabria did? i havent had to try it as i only had the one program not record (NCAA). just wondering if it would work for you too.

It's easy and appears to be safe... only audio output settings and favorite channels were lost. Recordings and series schedules remained intact.

It's easy and appears to be safe... only audio output settings and favorite channels were lost. Recordings and series schedules remained intact.

I'll try the factory reset when I get home later today. Couldn't make things much worse (famous last words).

I'll try the factory reset when I get home later today. Couldn't make things much worse (famous last words).

That's what I said when I was at a point that I could not even get Navigator to load. I REALLY had nothing to lose. I wasn't gonna get my recordings back in any other way at that point... they were lost if the reset blew'em away and they were lost if I turned the box in for another.

Fortunately it turned out OK and I can report my success. YMMV... YADA YADA... LOL.

has anyone noticed this?

when there is a change in the tc schedule. like harpers island gets moved, the box will still record the hour even though the guide now has the corect show. this time criminal minds.

this also happened when Kings was moved the first time and second time. the first time it didnt schedule the new showing even though it was on the guide as being new the following saturday.

has anyone noticed this?

when there is a change in the tc schedule. like harpers island gets moved, the box will still record the hour even though the guide now has the corect show. this time criminal minds.

this also happened when Kings was moved the first time and second time. the first time it didnt schedule the new showing even though it was on the guide as being new the following saturday.

cant say that ive noticed it. actually just the opposite. with all the moving around theyve been doing i havent missed any of my series recordings. heck i even set up some series from reruns airing at odd times during off season and told it to only record new and when the new season started it adapted to whatever time slot it was in.
BTW what version of ODN do you have on the HDC

SA 8300HDC - ODN 3.1.1_SP1 in NY HV Market

That's a new one.

cant say that ive noticed it. actually just the opposite. with all the moving around theyve been doing i havent missed any of my series recordings. heck i even set up some series from reruns airing at odd times during off season and told it to only record new and when the new season started it adapted to whatever time slot it was in.

Shockingly neither have I. The current MDN and whatever network tweaks they've done here has made the box pretty reliable which also makes for fairly uninteresting reading in this thread. :D

The usual UI quirks still suck but they've already been covered, so not much to report from MDN Land.

I wonder if they have put MDN development on the backburner so they can get their programmer focused entirely on solving the Samsung problems?

have you tried the factory reset as jcalabria did? i havent had to try it as i only had the one program not record (NCAA). just wondering if it would work for you too.

When I got home did the factory reset, redid my recording list and the first test came at 9:00 p.m. when I had scheduled "Patton 360" on History HD, which recorded fine last week and "Dollhouse", which did not. It's a little after 9:00 p.m. now and both shows seem to be recording normally.

Now we'll see how things go for a week or so.

Thanks to all the folks who offered their advice, tips and tricks to me!

SA 8300HDC - ODN 3.1.1_SP1
Indeed. Very interesting. Makes me wanna scream WHERES THE CHANGELOG?!

I wonder if they have put MDN development on the backburner so they can get their programmer focused entirely on solving the Samsung problems?
FWIW, It's actually in their best interest to cut off development of MDN completely since it is in a 'good enough' state right now.

MDN was really only meant as a stopgap solution for the older non-OCAP boxes that are still out in the field. As of right now, non-OCAP boxes are not able to be legally purchased so whatever is currently in TW's posession are the only ones they have. Once they croak, that's it. OCAP equipment (for all intents and purposes. TECHNICALLY it's cablecard equipped boxes but just about all of them are OCAP equipped too) is the only boxes that cableco's are legally able to purchase now.

So long story short, MDN is on it's last breath and ODN's still going to be in use with primary development focus for the forseeable future.

snip...Everyone else except K.C. seems to be on 3.1.1_3 ...snip

KC (at least my area) now has 3.1.1_3. **cough** updated a day or two ago. Still no eSATA.
Bastards

Skid

Indeed. Very interesting. Makes me wanna scream WHERES THE CHANGELOG?!

Me too!! I agree Chat, they should post that information on their website, so those who are interested can see it. I've just had Firefox 3 update once or twice in the last few weeks, and they always tell you what's new and what's fixed. But I can see why TWC doesn't want to do that, as I'm sure there are more problems that haven't been addressed yet: eSATA, HDMI/Audio output, stretched UI; and that's just the top three talked about here.

FWIW, It's actually in their best interest to cut off development of MDN completely since it is in a 'good enough' state right now.

MDN was really only meant as a stopgap solution for the older non-OCAP boxes that are still out in the field. As of right now, non-OCAP boxes are not able to be legally purchased so whatever is currently in TW's posession are the only ones they have. Once they croak, that's it. OCAP equipment (for all intents and purposes. TECHNICALLY it's cablecard equipped boxes but just about all of them are OCAP equipped too) is the only boxes that cableco's are legally able to purchase now.

So long story short, MDN is on it's last breath and ODN's still going to be in use with primary development focus for the forseeable future.

I noticed that. Before ODN3, I despised ODN because it was buggy and flawed on the 2.xx versions. But that was still coming from the beginning of OCAP when the "new" boxes were an exception, not the rule. At this time last year, MDN seemed more 'ready for primetime' since it was a bit more developed than ODN(before 3.xx). However, as soon as ODN3 came out, I knew MDN's days are numbered. I'll bet this recent update to the new color scheme is the last update we'll see for MDN, unless there's a major new feature added or bug fix. Now ODN is finally polished and ready for primetime. It even has the new features: Nearest Tune, Interactive Popup control and I get the feeling Keyword search might be a MDN-only thing(I hope it is).

Now ODN is finally polished and ready for primetime. It even has the new features: Nearest Tune, Interactive Popup control and I get the feeling Keyword search might be a MDN-only thing(I hope it is).

I disagree about the refusing to support MDN if true. MDN is still a very stable platform and for a long time, it held up better than the OCAP C boxes. Keep in mind that the C boxes were coined "O-CRAP" for a reason. Remember that the goal of Navigator was to get consistency and uniformity on each model box as much as possible. Why do you want new features like Keyword Search to be OCAP only? There are hundreds of thousands of people that are perfectly happy with their MDN boxes. Remember that I said my CC didn't work for years? Turned out to be a cable wiring issue. With my new Samsung HD TV CC and my MDN box, it runs like a champion.

If it's not broken, don't fix it. I am sure it would not be too much trouble for Keyword Search and Manual Recording to be added to existing boxes. Why should people have to trade in a great working box for new features that should have been added when Navigator first came out? That doesn't seem kosher. And that Newest Tune feature should also be applied to all makes and models of Navigator boxes. Keep these new functions and features available to everyone. In fact, they might do the boxes in the field first. At least that is how the update to the new Navigator color scheme worked.

Jack

...
I noticed that. Before ODN3, I despised ODN because it was buggy and flawed on the 2.xx versions. ...

"buggy": I don't know where you get that - 2.4.10_11 was not buggy at all; I don't remember it having even one single bug I ran into; 3.xx have major ones I deal with every day (broken eSATA support, DD setting that would not stick).

"flawed": oh, yeah, big time, and you are correct that 3.xx is less flawed (looks better, time slot recording, series priority). But all the missing features I really want to see (30 second skip, the ability to remove channels from view as well as from the searches, wishlists, ...) are still missing in 3.xx, and some rather weird (to call it kindly) design choices are still there.

any report form someone that got one (NYC TWC)

i assume they are DVR's

The Samsung 3050 have been deployed in NYC for a few years. NYC will also be getting the 3090 HD-DVR soon.

SA 8300HDC - ODN 3.1.1_SP1 in NY HV Market

That's a new one.


Yeah, that does seem odd, doesn't it? But that's definitely what it says for ODN on my diags page (channel 996). Am I copying down something wrong?

The Samsung 3050 have been deployed in NYC for a few years. NYC will also be getting the 3090 HD-DVR soon.

HDTV Fan,

Wondering how, according to your siggy, you have a C box listed with MDN? Is that correct? I thought that all C-boxes are OCAP versions of Navigator? Thanks for your help.

Jack

Wondering how, according to your siggy, you have a C box listed with MDN? Is that correct? I thought that all C-boxes are OCAP versions of Navigator? Thanks for your help.I'm pretty sure that's a typo--no such animal as a "3250HDC". The 4250HDC replaced the model. Here in San Diego, all of the new HDC boxes were installed with ODN, several months before they started pushing MDN to the legacy boxes (like the 3250HD).

The "C" means that the box uses a CableCARD for conditional access, something which the FCC required in all new boxes that they purchased after 1 July 2007. I've heard that the FCC requires the use of OCAP as well, but I'm not aware of where that requirement is codified in the regs.

Ugh, I just got 3.1.13 in KC last night. My esata stopped working of course. The diag screen shows that the 1TB drive is present. Will try a low level format.

Ugh, I just got 3.1.13 in KC last night. My esata stopped working of course. The diag screen shows that the 1TB drive is present. Will try a low level format.I feel for you my friend, but alas methinks you are wasting your time.

You need to enter the Samsung diagnostics pages to change a setting to allow AC3 over HDMI:

Enter diagnostics by holding [Vol+] and [INFO] simultaneously on the front panel for about 10 seconds, then release.
Once you enter the diagnostic mode, use the arrow keys (remote) to enter the "Extended Diags"
Once in Extended Diags, go to "Diagnostics" - it is password protected... "3090"
Once you are on the password protected Diagnostics page, enter "14" then "Select" to toggle AC3 support over HDMI. Change is instantaneous.
Hit "Exit" a few times to get out of diagnostics page.
Pics of the diagnostics screens posted here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16324711&postcount=7715

Let us know how it goes!



Will this work for the 8300HDC DD problems via HDMI

I was able to get into the 8300 HDC Diagnostics screen.

What I see under 11. HDMI Port Status Report:
Audio Format - PCM

Is this what is screwing everything up. How do I change it to AC3 or DD. It doesnt allow me to do anything. Am I missing something.

I was able to get into the 8300 HDC Diagnostics screen.

What I see under 11. HDMI Port Status Report:
Audio Format - PCM

Is this what is screwing everything up. How do I change it to AC3 or DD. It doesnt allow me to do anything. Am I missing something.

The 8300HDC's core diagnostic application doesn't support changing it. your only option is the coaxial or optical outputs on the box. That or wait for the Samsung's to come to your area.

I have optical running from cable box to receiver. the problem is, everytime I set the audio on the stb menu to dolby digital, it resets it self to HDMI when I turn the cable box/tv off. When it is on Dolby Digital, it works perfectly. Just defaults back to HDMI when everything is off.

This only happened recently after the stupid TWC update. Alot of people are having this problem now with using HDMI & optical cables. Never had this problem before.

I was able to get into the 8300 HDC Diagnostics screen.

What I see under 11. HDMI Port Status Report:
Audio Format - PCM

Is this what is screwing everything up. How do I change it to AC3 or DD. It doesnt allow me to do anything. Am I missing something.

The place to change the settings is generally the same for both boxes... under Settings>Devices from the Navigator interface. The choices are the same for both boxes... HDMI, MPEG/PCM & DD/AC3. The problem with the Samsung is that there is another setting that prevents the box from supplying AC3 over the HDMI port. At the factory default, the box will only output PCM over HDMI, even if the device connected to supports AC3. The setting I discovered restores the ability of the Samsung to negotiate the audio format with the HDMI sink device. Even without the internal setting change, the Sammie would still output AC3 over coax/toslink.

The 8300HDC, as far as I know, has always correctly negotiated the audio format via HDMI. The problem the HDC has is that it negotiates too well... if you manually set the device to output DD over the coax/toslink outputs, the next time the devices negotiate an HDMI handshake, if the sink device does NOT support AC3 (typical of most TVs... and exactly when you need the DD over coax or toslink), then it will also disable DD over the digital outputs. Whether this occurs seems to depend on two things... the version of ODN on your box and the TV its connected to via HDMI. My TV does not support AC3, yet I never had any issues with maintaing the DD settings on the box. Others lose it every time they turn the TV off or even change inputs. Is this what is happening to you?

Ugh, I just got 3.1.13 in KC last night. My esata stopped working of course. The diag screen shows that the 1TB drive is present. Will try a low level format.

So has anyone actually TRIED E-SATA with the Samsung 3090 box?

I know everyone is saying it won't work with odn 3.1.13 because it doesn't work on the SA 8300 HDC boxes...but remember the Samsung has diagnostic menu options that can be changed including a menu for E-SATA....Maybe it can be enabled...has anyone played around with this menu?

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/jcalabria/SMT-H3090/SMT-H3090_Diags21.jpg

I have a Sammy Box...and i want to know if it will work before i purchase an E-SATA hard drive.

The place to change the settings is generally the same for both boxes... under Settings>Devices from the Navigator interface. The choices are the same for both boxes... HDMI, MPEG/PCM & DD/AC3. The problem with the Samsung is that there is another setting that prevents the box from supplying AC3 over the HDMI port. At the factory default, the box will only output PCM over HDMI, even if the device connected to supports AC3. The setting I discovered restores the ability of the Samsung to negotiate the audio format with the HDMI sink device. Even without the internal setting change, the Sammie would still output AC3 over coax/toslink.

The 8300HDC, as far as I know, has always correctly negotiated the audio format via HDMI. The problem the HDC has is that it negotiates too well... if you manually set the device to output DD over the coax/toslink outputs, the next time the devices negotiate an HDMI handshake, if the sink device does NOT support AC3 (typical of most TVs... and exactly when you need the DD over coax or toslink), then it will also disable DD over the digital outputs. Whether this occurs seems to depend on two things... the version of ODN on your box and the TV its connected to via HDMI. My TV does not support AC3, yet I never had any issues with maintaing the DD settings on the box. Others lose it every time they turn the TV off or even change inputs. Is this what is happening to you?



its definitely the cable box because DD worked perfectly via hdmi connected to tv from cable box and audio optical cable connected to a/v receiver from cable box. I only noticed the problem of the DD audio setting in the stb menu after the last TWC updated. Now when I click on DD, it works fine but when I turn off the cable box/tv, the audio option on the stb menu defaults back to HDMI. I do not want this, I want it always on DD setting.

I know component cable will fix this, but my hdmi inputs were professional calibrated and i dont want to switch. Hopefully TWC will fix the 8300HDC audio bug soon, or atleast the new Sammy boxes will come out.

I have the same problem, so what I have finally done is program my Harmony remote to go through the whole motions of going into the HDC's Menu..Settings..devices...etc to set the audio to DD when I select "watch TV" activity.

It takes some 'playing' with to get the timings (delays) right, but it does work now every time for me.

If you have a programmable remote, this is a workaround, I suppose.


SA 8300HDC - ODN 3.1.1_SP1 in NY HV Market

So has anyone actually TRIED E-SATA with the Samsung 3090 box?

I know everyone is saying it won't work with odn 3.1.13 because it doesn't work on the SA 8300 HDC boxes...but remember the Samsung has diagnostic menu options that can be changed including a menu for E-SATA....Maybe it can be enabled...has anyone played around with this menu?

I have a Sammy Box...and i want to know if it will work before i purchase an E-SATA hard drive.

It is definitely worth trying. The Navigator software is pretty high level - it is clear that they managed to break eSATA on the 8300HDC at that high level, but for all we know it broke because of a change to get the Samsung working!

I know there are a few of you out there with an eSATA drive sitting around. Plug it in!

xnappo

What exactly does turning Interactive Pop-Ups on/off do? I've tried it both ways and nothing seems to have changed.

What exactly does turning Interactive Pop-Ups on/off do? I've tried it both ways and nothing seems to have changed.

Nothing, as far as anybody can tell.

It's for those popups in the middle of the screen for stuff like startover, interactive channel applications, stuff like that that is channel-specific.

In our area for example a few channels like TBS, TNT, and A&E to name a few that have HD simulcasts will display a popup on the SD channels and offer the option to switch to the HD channel if you have an HD receiver.

I also recall they had some interactive stuff a while back involving it like in-show polls on certain Bravo programs and garbage like that.

It's for those popups in the middle of the screen for stuff like startover, interactive channel applications, stuff like that that is channel-specific.

In our area for example a few channels like TBS, TNT, and A&E to name a few that have HD simulcasts will display a popup on the SD channels and offer the option to switch to the HD channel if you have an HD receiver.

I also recall they had some interactive stuff a while back involving it like in-show polls on certain Bravo programs and garbage like that.

... but the setting has no apparent effect on their appearance or lack thereof. I believe the original question was asking why the setting has no effect, not what the pop-ups themselves are for.

I dunno, seems to control it here. May just be another navigator bug or area specific thing. *shrug*

Good news. I have eSATA working on ODN 3.1.1_3. Have confirmed it is writing to the external in the Diag screen. Big Q now is if it will work consistently.

The odd thing is that I didn't really do anything. I just disconnected my drive for a day and then hooked it back up. All working now.

I dunno, seems to control it here. May just be another navigator bug or area specific thing. *shrug*

There have been known bugs with the pop-up menus. Here in Milwaukee, we had Start Over on the MDN/OCAP boxes, but when it was activated, it was not put on all the channels that they advertised it on. Some channels had an "Enhanced" menu with no Start Over, others had a "Start Over" prompt when tuning to the channel. Than they dumped it and now all you get is an Enhanced menu prompt with options (going from memory:)

Add to Favorites
Find Shows
DVR Show List
TWC Channel 32. (A local TWC Sports Channel)
On Demand
Exit.

When Start Over was activated, it would be at the top of the list. Now, it has been gone for two months or more. I don't care because I rarely watched the channels that had it. (about 15 of the 20 that were listed.) and NONE of the Start Over Stations when it was activated were in HD. We have the Enhanced Menu on about 20 channels with Caller ID on TV (subscribe to Digital Phone.) I have an MDN box. (SA-8300 HD)

I am sure the Interactive Menus lack of on/off is a bug if it does not work in your division. The choices in the pop-up menus have been known to not only work sporadically, but vary from box to box and division to division.

Jack

Good news. I have eSATA working on ODN 3.1.1_3. Have confirmed it is writing to the external in the Diag screen. Big Q now is if it will work consistently.

The odd thing is that I didn't really do anything. I just disconnected my drive for a day and then hooked it back up. All working now.Better make sure it can survive a reboot. I had mine working too, but lost it after rebooting.

Yes, it survived a reboot.

Yes, it survived a reboot.

Please keep us posted. I am tempted to try again, but it was quite annoying that each of the two failed attempts at getting the (low level reformatted) drive to be recognized cost me a recording from the internal drive. If I can watch and delete everything I care to see from the DVR (maybe it'll happen when the season ends) I'll try again.

The President of TWC San Diego.

Didn't he say that San Diego is testing the new Navigator updates now on employee account boxes? I don't want to put words in anybody's mouth, but if this is true, do you think we could see the Navigator update around late summer or early fall?

Looking forward to it!

Jack

Please keep us posted. I am tempted to try again, but it was quite annoying that each of the two failed attempts at getting the (low level reformatted) drive to be recognized cost me a recording from the internal drive. If I can watch and delete everything I care to see from the DVR (maybe it'll happen when the season ends) I'll try again.

Still working this morning with new recordings. Is actually back to normal as I don't have to do constant recordings now to avoid the drive idle issue. I did both a hard and soft reboot and it has no problems - operating as expected. Buffering and live pause work fine.

I don't trust it yet. Will post if anything happens.

Software version of HDC box in Diag screen says.. 6.20.54.1

Still working this morning with new recordings. Is actually back to normal as I don't have to do constant recordings now to avoid the drive idle issue. I did both a hard and soft reboot and it has no problems - operating as expected. Buffering and live pause work fine.

I don't trust it yet. Will post if anything happens.

Software version of HDC box in Diag screen says.. 6.20.54.1Man, I'm happy for you. Your luck has certainly been amazing. I've got a few questions.

I can find nothing on my diag screens that resembles the software version you reported. Where are you seeing this?

You posted earlier that you were going to reinitialize your drive? Did you actually have to do this to get it to work? Did you use the low level format tool? How long did you let it run?

Did it work the first time?

Did you have to do anything special with the power-on channel?

Found the HDC software version on the first page doing vol+ and info on the front panel.

I didn't reinitialize drive, it was still formatted from the 3.1.0 version. I did lose the recordings though. I did low level my drive back when I had issues with 3.1.0 - I didn't run it all way through, just a few minutes.

When my box was upgraded to 3.1.1_3, esata didn't work at all even after several reboot attempts, so I just turned it off and unplugged the drive. A day or two later, I plugged back in and it just worked.

No tricks of any kind needed, no special startup channel, etc.

It could be the Antec enclosure and/or Hitachi drive, who knows.

See link in sig for details.

It's for those popups in the middle of the screen for stuff like startover, interactive channel applications, stuff like that that is channel-specific.

In our area for example a few channels like TBS, TNT, and A&E to name a few that have HD simulcasts will display a popup on the SD channels and offer the option to switch to the HD channel if you have an HD receiver.

I also recall they had some interactive stuff a while back involving it like in-show polls on certain Bravo programs and garbage like that.

Actually, it seems they come from the MSO and not from the specific channel... moat seem to tout features that are promoted by the cable co.

Actually, it seems they come from the MSO and not from the specific channel... moat seem to tout features that are promoted by the cable co.

Well, yeah. They do come from the MSO obviously. There's not really any way the upstream providers can push their own interactive applications down to the STB.

But in regards to some promotions TW had run in my area some time back using the system, they were channel specific. In particular I recall some sort of on-screen vote/poll for Bravo's Next Top Chef.

Didn't he say that San Diego is testing the new Navigator updates now on employee account boxes? I don't want to put words in anybody's mouth, but if this is true, do you think we could see the Navigator update around late summer or early fall?

Looking forward to it!

Jack

Yep I think we'll get that update since it fixes some bugs in the the Samsung 3270 HD-DVR. That DVR will launch in San Diego. Other divisions are getting the 3090. The 3260 and 3270 will launch in Mid-July so it's possible that the new update could come out in that time frame. Probably earlier. Don't know if it will add new features. Your division will probably deploy it later. The Samsung 32xx boxes have been delayed due to the 3270 HD-DVR having some "minor yet troublesome" bugs. The 3260 is an HD-STB. The 3270 is newer, black, lighter and has a 320 GB HDD. The 3260 is a black box and it's newer than the 3050. Hope this helps.

Picking up my 1st HDTV tomorrow and also making the trip to Warner Cable in Canton Oh. If I have a choice what is the best HDDVR to get. The 2 things most important to me are HDMI connectivity and storage space. It's 12:33 am here and I'm leaving at 8 am in case there are any earlybirds out there, thanks.

Yep I think we'll get that update since it fixes some bugs in the the Samsung 3270 HD-DVR. That DVR will launch in San Diego. Other divisions are getting the 3090. The 3260 and 3270 will launch in Mid-July so it's possible that the new update could come out in that time frame. Probably earlier. Don't know if it will add new features. Your division will probably deploy it later. The Samsung 32xx boxes have been delayed due to the 3270 HD-DVR having some "minor yet troublesome" bugs. The 3260 is an HD-STB. The 3270 is newer, black, lighter and has a 320 GB HDD. The 3260 is a black box and it's newer than the 3050. Hope this helps.

Is there a difference between the 3090 and the 3270 or is the 3270 just a 'rebranded' 3090? Are there any tech specs for the 3270 that are available?

As you can tell, I'm in the same TWC area as you are (I'm in the regular area, not the ex-Adelphia one).

The 3270 could be a rehashed 3090 but it's said to be newer and better. I think the 3090 manual mentions the 3260.

I do know that they've tried to optimize MDN for those POS Pioneer and old SA boxes. They cleaned up some unnecessary code in the BFS and it works a bit better. I still think you should swap it for a newer one.

The 3270 could be a rehashed 3090 but it's said to be newer and better. I think the 3090 manual mentions the 3260.

I do know that they've tried to optimize MDN for those POS Pioneer and old SA boxes. They cleaned up some unnecessary code in the BFS and it works a bit better. I still think you should swap it for a newer one.

I still have a legacy SA8300HD (MDN) and I won't switch until the 3270 DVR unit proves to be reliable.

I still have a legacy SA8300HD (MDN) and I won't switch until the 3270 DVR unit proves to be reliable.

What would be your capsule review of MDN on a 8300HD? I ask because rumor has it that my box may get "MDNed" soon, supposedly 6/1, although that is rumor and not statement by TWC.

My general impression is that at this point, MDN for those who have Passport isn't that isn't as terrible as it was a year ago. I could sit on that one (until FIOS is in my building!) or go ODN 8300HDC or ODN 3090 or later.

I still have a legacy SA8300HD (MDN) and I won't switch until the 3270 DVR unit proves to be reliable.

Once it gets the troublesome bugs fixed then it should be reliable enough for you. Other than the bugs it's been great.

I still have a legacy SA8300HD (MDN) and I won't switch until the 3270 DVR unit proves to be reliable.

Considering how long it took to get a box that kept working (back in the old days when the 8300 was in short supply) I'm not swapping this one out until it's dead.

Or until FiOS arrives. Whichever comes first. ;)

What would be your capsule review of MDN on a 8300HD? I ask because rumor has it that my box may get "MDNed" soon, supposedly 6/1, although that is rumor and not statement by TWC.

My general impression is that at this point, MDN for those who have Passport isn't that isn't as terrible as it was a year ago. I could sit on that one (until FIOS is in my building!) or go ODN 8300HDC or ODN 3090 or later.

I think that with the improvements to the guide and functionality to Navigator over the last two years, it's almost as stable, if not as stable as Passport was, PROVIDED THAT YOU HAVE A REASONABLY NEW MODEL BOX. (No more than 3 years old.) That means that the old Pioneer models, and SA models 1000 and 2000 should be swapped out for newer versions. The same is true with the old SA-8000 DVR.

If you have a recent model box and that box has not shown serious problematic behavior you should be all set with Navigator.

There are things I like about Navigator that are better than Passport:

I like the extended sub-category search options. They really provide good detail for narrowing down show selections. I would still like to see a little clearer information for sports categories, but Navigator is coming out with expanded listing information later this year. A big plus.

I like having the consolidated info for HD programing, News, Kids Shows, all in one place. (Just press A and scroll left and right than Select the category for what's playing now. Than scroll up and down through the list of shows.)

Series Manager has been improved and is better at resolving conflicts than in the past. (Although I don't use it, friends say, it is "smarter" at avoiding duplicate shows.) You can now have greater priority over the number of shows in a series to record and how you watch them.

I like the % of storage space used in the DVR Show List.

The graphics are much better and more pleasing to the eye. The On-Demand Channels are more reliable and the menu screens look cool.

I have had no "Did not record" errors for many months.

Other Observations That Will Vary Based on Box Type: (and sometimes location)

1.) The IPG on MDN and OCAP SA/Cisco boxes is still in SD.

2.) The IPG on new Samsung boxes is "Stretched" to fill a 16:9 HD set aspect ratio REGARDLESS of Aspect Ratio and HD picture settings for your box.

3) C-boxes, which include the new Samsungs have a few more Quick Menu Settings than MDN, but some customers find them more of a hindrance than a help.

General Speaking, it is advised to keep your existing box if you are happy with it. The new Samsungs are new and still may have some bugs with them.

Personal story: I had a Public Access channel that TWC never used when I had Passport and it always showed a blank screen. On Passort, there would be a 5-10 second freeze whenever I went to this channel before the box would work again. When I got Navigator, I could go past the channel or tune to the channel with no slowdown whatsoever.

What still is keeping Navigator from being just a notch or two below Passport is the following:

1.) No Manual Recording Options

2.) No Keyword Search. (Believed to be coming soon, possibly in the next big update.)

Other Navigator Stuff being Worked on:

1.) Longer Program Descriptions
2.) Remote DVR program entry

Rumors: (What I have heard over the last two years.)

1.) An interactive games channel.
2.) Longer Caller ID listings and a buffer hold for Received Calls after the box boots. (Must have Digital Cable/Digital Phone for Caller ID on TV.)
3.) TV Voice Mail.

Jack

I think that with the improvements to the guide and functionality to Navigator over the last two years, it's almost as stable, if not as stable as Passport was, PROVIDED THAT YOU HAVE A REASONABLY NEW MODEL BOX. (No more than 3 years old.) That means that the old Pioneer models, and SA models 1000 and 2000 should be swapped out for newer versions. The same is true with the old SA-8000 DVR.

If you have a recent model box and that box has not shown serious problematic behavior you should be all set with Navigator.

There are things I like about Navigator that are better than Passport:

I like the extended sub-category search options. They really provide good detail for narrowing down show selections. I would still like to see a little clearer information for sports categories, but Navigator is coming out with expanded listing information later this year. A big plus.

I like having the consolidated info for HD programing, News, Kids Shows, all in one place. (Just press A and scroll left and right than Select the category for what's playing now. Than scroll up and down through the list of shows.)

Series Manager has been improved and is better at resolving conflicts than in the past. (Although I don't use it, friends say, it is "smarter" at avoiding duplicate shows.) You can now have greater priority over the number of shows in a series to record and how you watch them.

I like the % of storage space used in the DVR Show List.

The graphics are much better and more pleasing to the eye. The On-Demand Channels are more reliable and the menu screens look cool.

I have had no "Did not record" errors for many months.

Also noteworthy for things that are "better", actually the same as Passport:
Nearest Tune on ODN3 that eliminates the flashing ???? when a wrong channel number is input in the IPG. And it is better than Passport because even entering a wrong number on the banner tunes to the next channel.

Other Observations That Will Vary Based on Box Type: (and sometimes location)

1.) The IPG on MDN and OCAP SA/Cisco boxes is still in SD.

2.) The IPG on new Samsung boxes is "Stretched" to fill a 16:9 HD set aspect ratio REGARDLESS of Aspect Ratio and HD picture settings for your box.

3) C-boxes, which include the new Samsungs have a few more Quick Menu Settings than MDN, but some customers find them more of a hindrance than a help.

General Speaking, it is advised to keep your existing box if you are happy with it. The new Samsungs are new and still may have some bugs with them.

C- boxes with ODN3 are better than boxes with MDN 2.xx.15 or .16. The biggest difference I've noticed is that even the latest version of MDN lacked the HD/Letterbox/Dolby Digital tags in the IPG. Also, MDN (latest version) used to "cut off" guide data for recorded shows(looking at the description in the DVR menu the text would cut off randomly), plus the year was missing. On ODN3, the year is still visible in the description in the DVR menu as well as the entire description.

I like having the consolidated info for HD programing, News, Kids Shows, all in one place. (Just press A and scroll left and right than Select the category for what's playing now. Than scroll up and down through the list of shows.)

Since Nav was introduced I have never pressed A intentionally once. I usually forget it's even there until I accidentally press A. I don't search by theme since I know what channels I watch and can easily see what's on that I might like. If I'm in the mood for a sitcom for example I just hit the channels in the guide that show sitcoms.

The only Nav improvement for me is the ability to stack channels together at the top of the guide. Every other search function I don't have use for and the keyboard search is just so bad compared to Passport I don't even bother.


The graphics are much better and more pleasing to the eye. The On-Demand Channels are more reliable and the menu screens look cool.


Don't agree there. While I think Nav has a better color scheme now, it still looks like it was designed by someone who just finished high school. Just take a look at the massive waste of space icon/title for "SHOW LIST!!!" and the very basic dialog boxes and fonts (does bold or italic even exist in their design department?) and simplistic icons.

If I remember correctly the only reason the last On Demand channels performed so poorly was because it was one more thing from 7 years ago that we got stuck with until the end. We never saw the newer versions of ShowRunner VOD for Passport.

Don't agree there. While I think Nav has a better color scheme now, it still looks like it was designed by someone who just finished high school. Just take a look at the massive waste of space icon/title for "SHOW LIST!!!" and the very basic dialog boxes and fonts (does bold or italic even exist in their design department?) and simplistic icons.I don't consider Navigator to be superior to Passport in any regard, but I'd cut them some slack on the visual design. At least it uses professional line-art and fonts.

If you want to see something that looks like a high-school project, executed by untalented and undermotivated students, look no further than SARA :rolleyes:. I'm certain that the entire jaggedy graphic design of SARA, down to the the fonts, was created by software engineers. To me it looks like a typical reference platform (which it is), intended to provide a set of working code examples of how to utilize the various capabilities of the hardware, and not intended to be shipped to customers.

Agreed completely Mike. SARA really is nothing more than a reference or 'tech demo' in many cases. Unfortunately a lot of cable companies seem to be either too lazy or too cheap to go with something else.

Passport and Navigator both are leagues ahead of SARA and I dare say they both (Passport and Nav) can easily compete with each other nowadays. Just don't let nickdawg catch wind of this. ;)

Though now that I have seen screenshots of Passport's OCAP release, I REALLY want it.

It's only too bad that OCAP doesn't give the option to customers to use their own software. :(

Agreed completely Mike. SARA really is nothing more than a reference or 'tech demo' in many cases. Unfortunately a lot of cable companies seem to be either too lazy or too cheap to go with something else.

Passport and Navigator both are leagues ahead of SARA and I dare say they both (Passport and Nav) can easily compete with each other nowadays. Just don't let nickdawg catch wind of this. ;)

Though now that I have seen screenshots of Passport's OCAP release, I REALLY want it.

It's only too bad that OCAP doesn't give the option to customers to use their own software. :(

It's probably possible but they'll want to charge you extra for it.

I don't consider Navigator to be superior to Passport in any regard, but I'd cut them some slack on the visual design. At least it uses professional line-art and fonts.

If you want to see something that looks like a high-school project, executed by untalented and undermotivated students, look no further than SARA :rolleyes:. I'm certain that the entire jaggedy graphic design of SARA, down to the the fonts, was created by software engineers.

I think you're giving Nav designers too much credit with the use of "fonts." They only have one typeface and they use it for everything.

I think the SARA interface was designed by one guy 9 years ago who died and SA haven't figured out how he did it. So at least they have an excuse. ;)

I have discovered that my 3090 will sometimes get "stuck" on 720p output. All output resolutions are turned on, Navigator reports the correct output resolution for the source [Settings/Display/Output Resolution/Status:], but the actual HDMI output will be 720p. The only way I have found to correct this is to turn off all resolutions except 480i, then reactivate the other resolutions. The box will output the correct resolutions for a while but will eventually return to outputting 720p only. Also will do this if only 1080i is turned on.

I have duplicated the behavior many times, in both STB>Receiver>TV and STB>TV configurations. Reboots do not alter the behavior other than a temporary restoration (same as deactivating/reactivating output resolutions).

I think you're giving Nav designers too much credit with the use of "fonts." They only have one typeface and they use it for everything.I don't use it very often, but I'm looking at a post in this thread with some screenshots (here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15807958&highlight=jpg#post15807958)). They may not use a variety of fonts, but they're using the one that they are using well, IMHO (and I'm not sure that the use of more than a couple of fonts is wise in any GUI). It is a smooth, professionally designed font. They use color gradients and shadowing on the bezels and some elements to give them a three dimensional look and nice graphics for the network and TWC logos, as well as icons for the various menus (the little padlock for the Settings dialog, the clipboard on the series manager, etc). All of it was very obviously created by professional artists, as spec'd by human factors engineers. It's not horribly snazzy or eye catching, but I'd put it on par with the last version of Passport Echo that TWC deployed (2.6.xxx, I believe).

If it were running on a platform with a fast enough processor and enough memory for it to snap along quickly like Passport, I'd be more or less satisfied with it, after a few additions like incremental keyword search.

I have discovered that my 3090 will sometimes get "stuck" on 720p output. All output resolutions are turned on, Navigator reports the correct output resolution for the source [Settings/Display/Output Resolution/Status:], but the actual HDMI output will be 720p. The only way I have found to correct this is to turn off all resolutions except 480i, then reactivate the other resolutions. The box will output the correct resolutions for a while but will eventually return to outputting 720p only.

I have duplicated the behavior many times, in both STB>Receiver>TV and STB>TV configurations. Reboots do not alter the behavior other than a temporary restoration (same as deactivating/reactivating output resolutions).

I can confirm that this as well

I have been having this problem lately to. I thought maybe i was doing something wrong...The set just keeps on reverting back to 720p even though it says 1080i on the box...My panny plasma never lies and it told me ive been receiving a 720p signal.

i have TWC 8300HDC running Mystro . is this "navigator" or am i in the wrong thread ?

I can confirm that this as well

I have been having this problem lately to. I thought maybe i was doing something wrong...The set just keeps on reverting back to 720p even though it says 1080i on the box...My panny plasma never lies and it told me ive been receiving a 720p signal.

..and you have newer version of Navigator, too.

I had noticed this a while ago... but because I had actually installed my new receiver at the same time as the 3090, I wanted to make sure it wasn't the receiver acting up. I spent some time yesterday investigating and it was definitely the box. Good that you can confirm the issue.

i have TWC 8300HDC running Mystro . is this "navigator" or am i in the wrong thread ?

You are in the right place... Mystro = Navigator.

I don't use it very often, but I'm looking at a post in this thread with some screenshots (here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15807958&highlight=jpg#post15807958)). They may not use a variety of fonts, but they're using the one that they are using well, IMHO (and I'm not sure that the use of more than a couple of fonts is wise in any GUI). It is a smooth, professionally designed font.

Interestingly that font seems to be either the same or a copy of the font Sony use for their XMB and UI.

And while I'm fine with one font being used across an entire interface Nav needs to use weight and italics to differentiate between types of information and importance. Channel numbers should be bold face, ratings and technical information about the program should be italicized to make it stand out from the program synopsis etc.

Since Nav was introduced I have never pressed A intentionally once. I usually forget it's even there until I accidentally press A. I don't search by theme since I know what channels I watch and can easily see what's on that I might like. If I'm in the mood for a sitcom for example I just hit the channels in the guide that show sitcoms.
Totally agree. The main problem IMO is that the 'Theme' categories are so broad as to be useless - they do Not match up with the Guide categories such as History, Nature, Cooking, etc, etc.
Satchman, how do you know that these other 'improvements' are coming?

The only Nav improvement for me is the ability to stack channels together at the top of the guide. Every other search function I don't have use for and the keyboard search is just so bad compared to Passport I don't even bother.

The option to group Favorites at the front/end of the Guide has grown on me quite a bit. OTOH I've found recently that Near Tune doesn't work sometimes so I have to scroll manually (ugh) to get to a non-fav channel.

Interestingly that font seems to be either the same or a copy of the font Sony use for their XMB and UI.

And while I'm fine with one font being used across an entire interface Nav needs to use weight and italics to differentiate between types of information and importance. Channel numbers should be bold face, ratings and technical information about the program should be italicized to make it stand out from the program synopsis etc.

IIRC, Passport also used the same font across menus, channel numbers, descriptions, etc. What I would like to see are symbols like Passport used, ie: "HDTV" was a symbol with the HDTV inside a box, similar to SAP. Also, descriptions like Dolby Digital, SAP, Stereo, Letterbox were consistently at the end of the description. Sometimes it seems jumbled on Navigator.

Satchman, how do you know that these other 'improvements' are coming?

A reliable source who gets cable information about once a year and who sits in on head office meetings in NYC found out at a "Navigator Engineers" meeting that Keyword Search was being discussed for the next big update to Navigator. He could not give a specific time frame, but believed it could be before the end of the year or sooner. Keyword Search is at the top of the list for Navigator updates.

TWC's Ohio website offers a side-by side comparison of the old and new Navigator color schemes. That site (and only that site, AFAIK) claims that "longer program descriptions and remote DVR programing are coming later this year."

http://www.timewarnercable.com/NortheastOhio/learn/cable/navigator/default.html


The President of TWC-San Diego's division has also said a new version of Navigator is coming this year and "May include some new features."

Jack

A reliable source who gets cable information about once a year and who sits in on head office meetings in NYC found out at a "Navigator Engineers" meeting that Keyword Search was being discussed for the next big update to Navigator. He could not give a specific time frame, but believed it could be before the end of the year or sooner. Keyword Search is at the top of the list for Navigator updates.

TWC's Ohio website offers a side-by side comparison of the old and new Navigator color schemes. That site (and only that site, AFAIK) claims that "longer program descriptions and remote DVR programing are coming later this year."

http://www.timewarnercable.com/NortheastOhio/learn/cable/navigator/default.html


The President of TWC-San Diego's division has also said a new version of Navigator is coming this year and "May include some new features."

Jack

Great news on keyword search confirms rumor I heard. Any news on manual recording?

And fixing the Federally Mandated IEEE-1394 Firewire interface?????

And external eSATA.....

"Keyword Search" is probably part of being able to also search OnDemand and PPV,
which currently are rarely included in Search Results.
And fancy new PICTURE IMAGES as we've seen in tru2way demos at CES/NAB....
But until they get their fancy new stuff working, we must suffer.....and wait....

Great news on keyword search confirms rumor I heard. Any news on manual recording?

Nothing yet on Manual Recording. But it certainly seems logical that this is also being discussed. The goal of TWC is to make Navigator equal to or better than Passport, so at some point, they will have to add Manual Recording to do that.

Jack

Great news on keyword search confirms rumor I heard. Any news on manual recording?

The May version should also fix the Samsung 3270 HD-DVR bugs. Those bugs were minor yet troublesome. That might take a few more months and then it should be out to customers.

Hey hdtvfan2005, any word on any upgrades for TWC San Diego to MDN? We've been stuck on 2.4.4-14 for a while now, and there is an update out there (2.4.4-16?)

Maybe they'll use an even newer version in May :). Who needs 2.4.4-18 when they'll be releasing a new version soon.

Though it might be delayed. All I know really is that the next version fixes the 3270 DVR bugs.

Though it might be delayed. All I know really is that the next version fixes the 3270 DVR bugs.

...and lets hope, by extension, the 3090 bugs.

...and lets hope, by extension, the 3090 bugs.

amen...i just missed recording house again.

same as always the recording log says it was "not recorded because the channel was not available (2)" however it was available, i watched the show, and the buffer was working too.

guess i'll try resetting to factory...tomorrow.

amen...i just missed recording house again.

same as always the recording log says it was "not recorded because the channel was not available (2)" however it was available, i watched the show, and the buffer was working too.

guess i'll try resetting to factory...tomorrow.

Knock on wood... no missed recordings since factory reset. Big Bang, House, 24 and CSI:Miami all recorded tonight... all FOX and CBS, too.

amen...i just missed recording house again.

same as always the recording log says it was "not recorded because the channel was not available (2)" however it was available, i watched the show, and the buffer was working too.

guess i'll try resetting to factory...tomorrow.

Just a wild guess, but tonight's House ran from 8:00 to 9:01. Maybe your scheduled recordings at 9:00 confused the DVR.

-barry

Just a wild guess, but tonight's House ran from 8:00 to 9:01. Maybe your scheduled recordings at 9:00 confused the DVR.

-barry

I agree with Barry.

Jack

I've started seeing hesitations and pauses that last a few seconds in both live channel viewing and DVR recordings. This seems to have started after some new channels were added. Also may be connected to using the guide and program list. I'm on MDN Navigator.

Could my external hard drive be going bad?

Just a wild guess, but tonight's House ran from 8:00 to 9:01. Maybe your scheduled recordings at 9:00 confused the DVR.

-barry

Didn't confuse mine, but its possible he may have had two non-FOX programs scheduled at 9pm, while my 9pm recording was 24, also on FOX.

However, I doubt that it was his problem. This is a recurring Samsung 3090 issue that appears to be a particular problem in the Charlotte TWC division (which strutter's Statesville system is a part of). It seems to effect FOX and CBS programming almost exclusively - I have missed multiple FOX and CBS shows, but only one NBC show, and no others at all. I have not seen any other reports in the Charlotte thread that were not CBS or FOX shows missed. It has also missed programs for me when only a single tuner was required and there were no other programs scheduled before or after. FYI, Charlotte is still on 3.1.0_11 while most other systems with the 3090 are on 3.1.1_3.

Mine had been doing well after a factory reset a few weeks ago, not missing any recordings at all, including last night's FOX and CBS heavy schedule. However, about 5 minutes before the end of 24 (watching live) I lost audio output from the box. My receiver still showed DD symbol, but silence. Checked HDMI, coax and analog outputs... all silent. Ended up rebooting box, which corrected the audio issue but the box once again refused to load Navigator, a problem that I had also had before. This time, however, a factory reset did not restore Navigator... I tried several times before I gave up, unplugged the box and went to bed. This morning I powered it back up and this time it loaded a new copy of Navigator from the headend (normal after a factory reset) and booted normally. Hopefully I will get NCIS and Fringe recorded tonight.



The box itself (or its own low level firmware/software) may be buggy, but more likely, it just doesn't play nice with the current version(s) of ODN. The major issues I have had are:

Multiple recording failures -always same failure mode. Numerous reports in Charlotte area... few outside.
Reverts to 720p output irrespective of Navigator settings or program content. At least one other report from Milwaukee area.
Navigator crashing and inconsistent loading of Navigator at boot-up. I have not seen anyone else with this issue.
Occasional jerky video + severe AV sync issues in both live and playback viewing. Pause/Play restores proper playback. I have not seen any other reports of this, either.
The complete loss of audio last night was a new issue, even for my lemon of a box.
Occasional video freeze/blackout - audio continues as does all other box functions. Power switch on/off corrects video.
Then there are the annoying but not catastrophic issues like the not readily accessible "AC3 over HDMI" setting disabled by default and the 4:3 guide/banner graphics stretched to 16:9.

Hopefully I will get NCIS and Fringe recorded tonight.

Jcalabria, be aware that the last few weeks "Idol" has run late causing the DVR to end recording before "Fringe" actually ends. Since it's the season finale, I plan on watching "Fringe" live, OTA

Also last week, this was several days after I did my factory reset, both NBC "L&Os" failed to record but I couldn't determine whether it was the box or the 9:00 p.m. recorded shows running long, therefore making NBC unavailable. However after the factory reset, "CSI" did record as it should have last week.

be aware that the last few weeks "Idol" has run late causing the DVR to end recording before "Fringe" actually ends. Since it's the season finale, I plan on watching "Fringe" live, OTA

Thanks for the heads up... hopefully I will be home by then.

Thanks for the heads up... hopefully I will be home by then.

Well it worse comes to worse, you can always watch "Fringe" on Hulu.com

Ands can I assume you mean pulling the plug for a bit on the STB to be a "factory reset?" What I'd call a cold boot??

Ands can I assume you mean pulling the plug for a bit on the STB to be a "factory reset?" What I'd call a cold boot??

Nope... there is a menu selection in the password protected diagnostics page (same place you need to access to activate AC3 over HDMI):

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/jcalabria/SMT-H3090/SMT-H3090_Diags17.jpg

Option 08 restores factory settings and wipes out the currently loaded copy of ODN, forcing a download from headend on reboot.

One thing I noticed last night that I would like to caution everyone about... Option 09 activates a Factory Test mode, which doesn't seem to do much (it looks like it is trying to communicate with a specific IP address that is not there). However, when Factory Test mode is enabled, Option 08 changes to "Factory Defaults Reset w/ HDD Erase"... so be careful to read the entry for Option 08 before using it!

Didn't confuse mine, but its possible he may have had two non-FOX programs scheduled at 9pm, while my 9pm recording was 24, also on FOX.

However, I doubt that it was his problem.
yep, not the problem. i only had one program scheduled @ 9pm. two and a half men on CBS.

This is a recurring Samsung 3090 issue that appears to be a particular problem in the Charlotte TWC division (which strutter's Statesville system is a part of). It seems to effect FOX and CBS programming almost exclusively - I have missed multiple FOX and CBS shows, but only one NBC show, and no others at all. I have not seen any other reports in the Charlotte thread that were not CBS or FOX shows missed. It has also missed programs for me when only a single tuner was required and there were no other programs scheduled before or after. FYI, Charlotte is still on 3.1.0_11 while most other systems with the 3090 are on 3.1.1_3.

Mine had been doing well after a factory reset a few weeks ago, not missing any recordings at all, including last night's FOX and CBS heavy schedule. However, about 5 minutes before the end of 24 (watching live) I lost audio output from the box. My receiver still showed DD symbol, but silence. Checked HDMI, coax and analog outputs... all silent. Ended up rebooting box, which corrected the audio issue but the box once again refused to load Navigator, a problem that I had also had before. This time, however, a factory reset did not restore Navigator... I tried several times before I gave up, unplugged the box and went to bed. This morning I powered it back up and this time it loaded a new copy of Navigator from the headend (normal after a factory reset) and booted normally. Hopefully I will get NCIS and Fringe recorded tonight.

The box itself (or its own low level firmware/software) may be buggy, but more likely, it just doesn't play nice with the current version(s) of ODN. The major issues I have had are:

Multiple recording failures -always same failure mode. Numerous reports in Charlotte area... few outside.
Reverts to 720p output irrespective of Navigator settings or program content. At least one other report from Milwaukee area.
Navigator crashing and inconsistent loading of Navigator at boot-up. I have not seen anyone else with this issue.
Occasional jerky video + severe AV sync issues in both live and playback viewing. Pause/Play restores proper playback. I have not seen any other reports of this, either.
The complete loss of audio last night was a new issue, even for my lemon of a box.
Then there are the annoying but not catastrophic issues like the not readily accessible "AC3 over HDMI" setting disabled by default and the 4:3 guide/banner graphics stretched to 16:9.
#1 yep
#2 havent had this problem. i dont use HDMI from 3090.
#3 have had a couple spontaneous reboots and a couple manual reboots to fix problems such as picture freezing to one channel but audio changed if i changed channel. but no issues loading navigator at boot.
#4 had this once, judge judy acted like max headroom (remember him).
sort of like only every 5th or so vid frame was being transmitted. it didnt effect audio at all though.
#5 occasional audio and video drop outs are common for me even with the 8300. but your issue is different than that.