#2 havent had this problem. i dont use HDMI from 3090. ARE YOU SURE? IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO KNOW IF COMPONENT OUTPUT RESOLUTIONS ARE BEING EFFECTED AS WELL. I HATE TO ADMIT IT, BUT I PROBABLY WOULD NOT HAVE NOTICED THIS IF MY TV DID NOT REPORT INPUT RESOLUTIONS ON ITS INFO BANNER... I NOTICED THE 1280x720p BANNER ON HBO ONCE AND IT GOT ME CHECKING.

#3 have had a couple spontaneous reboots and a couple manual reboots to fix problems such as picture freezing to one channel but audio changed if i changed channel FORGOT ABOUT THAT ONE! (EDITED MY POST)

#4 had this once, judge judy acted like max headroom (remember him). sort of like only every 5th or so vid frame was being transmitted. it didnt effect audio at all though. SOUNDS SOMEWHAT SIMILAR, BUT THE VIDEO IS NOT THAT EXTREMELY AFFECTED... I NOTICE THE FULL SECOND OR MORE AUDIO DIFFERENTIAL MORE THAN THE SLIGHT VIDEO HESITATIONS.

#5 occasional audio and video drop outs are common for me even with the 8300. but your issue is different than that. I WAS HAVING SEVERE AUDIO DROPOUT PROBLEMS ABOUT A WEEK AGO... CHANGING HDMI CABLE CORRECTED, AS DID SWITCHING BACK TO COAX AUDIO HOOKUP

Well it worse comes to worse, you can always watch "Fringe" on Hulu.com

or record fox news at 10. as long as the recording doesnt fail you will get whatever fringe runs past 10.

i record NCIS, Idol and Fringe. but with all these missed recordings, i've started watching season finales on cbs and fox live......commercials suck.....but not as much as missed recordings

I've started seeing hesitations and pauses that last a few seconds in both live channel viewing and DVR recordings. This seems to have started after some new channels were added. Also may be connected to using the guide and program list. I'm on MDN Navigator.

Could my external hard drive be going bad?

More likely this problem is related to issue at your head-end than your box going bad. It seems very often that after new channels are added, there will be audio and pixiation problems on certain channels more related to external signals than box hardware. If the problem has not been corrected on its own in a week, call to report it. If a service call is set up, you should request an In-House Technician over an Independent Service Contractor. The IHT's are generally much more knowledgeable and efficient about cable problems than the ISC's.

Jack

...and lets hope, by extension, the 3090 bugs.

Sounds like North Carolina running the new Samsung DVR's needs this update badly. Have any of you guys heard when you are getting the next Navigator update, which is supposed to fix these bugs?

I wonder if May is going to be a standard rollout for most divisions?

Jack

Sounds like North Carolina running the new Samsung DVR's needs this update badly. Have any of you guys heard when you are getting the next Navigator update, which is supposed to fix these bugs?

I wonder if May is going to be a standard rollout for most divisions?

Jack

I don't know when... thats what we get for being one of the first with ODN 3.1.x and also with the Sammy... But with TWC corporate engineering located here in Charlotte, you'd think we'd have these things addressed by now. I think Raleigh Division has newer version. Not sure about other Wilmington. Poor Greensboro is still on SARA, lol.

Maybe we'll leapfrog 3.1.1_3 and get something even newer... maybe fix the Samsung problems and introduce a few new ones.

#2 havent had this problem. i dont use HDMI from 3090. ARE YOU SURE? IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO KNOW IF COMPONENT OUTPUT RESOLUTIONS ARE BEING EFFECTED AS WELL. I HATE TO ADMIT IT, BUT I PROBABLY WOULD NOT HAVE NOTICED THIS IF MY TV DID NOT REPORT INPUT RESOLUTIONS ON ITS INFO BANNER... I NOTICED THE 1280x720p BANNER ON HBO ONCE AND IT GOT ME CHECKING.


yep. positive. my Tv reports resolution on its info banner too. however the way i have the Tv set up it doesnt show unless i press the info button for my TV. when yall first reported the resolution change i checked it out. checking right now i'm seeing 1080i on WBTVHD , 720p on WSOCHD , and 480i on SD channels. the box has been set to send all resolutions to the TV since i got it and i havent been back into that menu at all.

I don't know when... thats what we get for being one of the first with ODN 3.1.x and also with the Sammy... But with TWC corporate engineering located here in Charlotte, you'd think we'd have these things addressed by now. I think Raleigh Division has newer version. Not sure about other Wilmington. Poor Greensboro is still on SARA, lol.

Maybe we'll leapfrog 3.1.1_3 and get something even newer... maybe fix the Samsung problems and introduce a few new ones.

I KNOW WE ARE STILL ON SARA IN GREENSBORO AND IT SUCKS TO HIGH HEAVEN> I CANNOT GET EVEN A TIME FRAME FROM OUR LOCAL DIVISION ON NAVIGATOR DEPLOYMENT. S orry for the caps but was a bit heated up. Maybe some of you Charlotte guys could call the home office in Charlotte and see if they could give you any information on Greensboro deployment.

I KNOW WE ARE STILL ON SARA IN GREENSBORO AND IT SUCKS TO HIGH HEAVEN> I CANNOT GET EVEN A TIME FRAME FROM OUR LOCAL DIVISION ON NAVIGATOR DEPLOYMENT. S orry for the caps but was a bit heated up. Maybe some of you Charlotte guys could call the home office in Charlotte and see if they could give you any information on Greensboro deployment.

Homely as she might be, good ol' Sara still gets the laundry done and meals on the table every day and still manages to entertain you every night... Navi and Sammi might be sexier to play with and easier on the eyes... but they really leave a lot to be desired in the reliability and trustworthiness department. I bet you didn't go to bed frustrated last night!:p

Homely as she might be, good ol' Sara still gets the laundry done and meals on the table every day and still manages to entertain you every night... Navi and Sammi might be sexier to play with and easier on the eyes... but they really leave a lot to be desired in the reliability and trustworthiness department. I bet you didn't go to bed frustrated last night!:p

I agree. This much SARA bashing is ridiculous. The grass isn't much greener on the Navigator side of the fence. You're just trading one problem for another. And the new Sammy: I'll stay out of that yard as if there were a pack of wild dogs in it! :p Stretched IPG, I think not! :mad:

Stretched IPG, I think not! :mad:

The least of its problems right now!

Where and how do I find the version of navigator running my dvr. Thanks

Where and how do I find the version of navigator running my dvr. Thanks

Is your program guide a bright, electric blue or is it a dark blue with black and gold colors in it?

Also, what model is your DVR box?

The least of its problems right now!

Yea,

I don't really see a stretched IPG as a major issue. It does seem based on the consensus of this board that as ugly as the SARA IPG is in appearance, it appears to be very reliable. My guess is because SARA has shown to be reliable, and runs SDV already that TWC may be reluctant to replace a reliable system when they think it is not necessary. Remember that Passport did not support SDV like Navigator and SARA systems that already have this feature enabled. (For divisions that have SDV.) Maybe at the corporate level, being good enough to be competitive is satisfactory to TWC. Trying to be the best with new features and enhancements, as much as the subs would like them, might solve some problems, but develop future onces.

I agree with the above. In some TWC divisions it has become a trade off for a great looking GUI vs. a reliable OS. And I think that most subs would rather have a reliable OS. The question is, can TWC add new features to its Navigator Guide without upsetting the apple cart and keep reliability as a top priority? No one wants a repeat of Navigator's early roll-out disasters from two and a half years ago! I don't know how a company recovers from that. But I think that TWC is (finally) making some effort. If they can add Keyword Search and Manual Recording to Navigator, I would be totally happy with the guide.

Jack

Yea,

I don't really see a stretched IPG as a major issue. It does seem based on the consensus of this board that as ugly as the SARA IPG is in appearance, it appears to be very reliable. My guess is because SARA has shown to be reliable, and runs SDV already that TWC may be reluctant to replace a reliable system when they think it is not necessary. Remember that Passport did not support SDV like Navigator and SARA systems that already have this feature enabled. (For divisions that have SDV.) Maybe at the corporate level, being good enough to be competitive is satisfactory to TWC. Trying to be the best with new features and enhancements, as much as the subs would like them, might solve some problems, but develop future onces.



Jack

Regardless of the operating system, I'm convinced SDV would still suck. When you have idiots implementing crap in a hurry, the result isn't good. Take NE Ohio: part of it is SARA, part Navigator. Some of the SARA areas got the channels before the Navigator areas. Then the channels didn't work in some areas, took a few days to be fixed. And they're still fixing things now. Plus some areas don't have the new channels. Don't even have SDV active yet, which might not come until the end of the month. And they promised SDV in the SARA areas on 4/9/09!! The new channels asses the other day were two weeks late too! This whole operation screams of bullspit. I find myself asking "what's the point of this"? :mad:

And that explains the new addition to my signature! ;) :D :)

btw, why not just extend the recording time. i had to do that with fringe because of idol, and had to do it with my boys because tbs doesnt seem to get what 30 minutes is.

btw, why not just extend the recording time. i had to do that with fringe because of idol, and had to do it with my boys because tbs doesnt seem to get what 30 minutes is.

Yep... added 5 minutes when I got home before.

Is your program guide a bright, electric blue or is it a dark blue with black and gold colors in it?

Also, what model is your DVR box?

Hi
Thanks for quick response. The Mystro screen is bright blue and the DVR is an 8300HD. I hope that I've supplied the information you needed.

Hi
Thanks for quick response. The Mystro screen is bright blue and the DVR is an 8300HD. I hope that I've supplied the information you needed.

Sounds like you have MDN---Mystro Digital Navigator. Probably 2.4.4-16.

If you want to check diagnostics, hold down the Select button on the remote until the Envelope light on the front of the box flashes. While the Envelope light is flashing, press Arrow Down until the diagnostics screen appears.

btw, why not just extend the recording time. i had to do that with fringe because of idol, and had to do it with my boys because tbs doesnt seem to get what 30 minutes is.

I add extra recording time often. It is a very useful feature that many people don't use. The question that I wanted to ask for those of you who are missing your recordings, are you recording these shows as a series or individually? Personally, I don't use the Series Manager in Navigator, but I think all versions now have added new Series Priority functionality. If anyone has any hints on working with the Series Manager to resolve recording conflicts, please post.

Jack

Help! I think my 8300HD running Navigator MDN is self-destructing. Several times when I checked the DVR in the morning it has been recording by itself all nite long and is still recording. Nothing shows up on the list as being recorded, but my used disk space has gone up 8% overnight (with a 1TB external drive). Also, it has missed recording most of the shows it should have the night before. The recording log says "Unable to record". If I reboot it stops recording, and the used space returns to being 8% less. But I've still lost the shows it was supposed to record. I'm also getting some hesitations and short freezes both with live TV and recordings.

I would just exchange the box, but I've got shows on it and my external drive from 4/5 on. I'm not sure I can still get another HD box, and if I get an HDC box my external drive will no longer work. Meanwhile, my other 8300 HD box is working fine.

Any suggestions on what's going on, and if I can get this box to work for awhile longer?

I would just exchange the box, but I've got shows on it and my external drive from 4/5 on. I'm not sure I can still get another HD box, and if I get an HDC box my external drive will no longer work. Meanwhile, my other 8300 HD box is working fine.

It's not which model of box determines whether you can "move" an external drive... as far as we know, you simply can not do that because that external drive is actually keyed to the specific box you have right now.

It's not which model of box determines whether you can "move" an external drive... as far as we know, you simply can not do that because that external drive is actually keyed to the specific box you have right now.

What I meant to say was that the 8300 HD supports external drives, and the 8300 HDC does not, if it has the latest Navigator software. If I can't get another HD box, then I'm out of luck using any external drive with an HDC box.

What I meant to say was that the 8300 HD supports external drives, and the 8300 HDC does not, if it has the latest Navigator software. If I can't get another HD box, then I'm out of luck using any external drive with an HDC box.

No you're not out of luck necessarily,

It depends not only on the type of box you have but also the type of external drive. The HDC boxes may or may not support the external drive. I think the version of Navigator is more of a culprit than the box. I know people with HDC boxes and external drives that do work. I am not sure of the model of his box, but a relative of mine has had a Western Digital external drive for five years, surviving not only a change-over from Passport to EARLY Navigator, but also the Navigator updates as well. We should enter into this discussion the manufacturer of the external drive as well. I don't know if he has an MDN or an OCAP box. Sorry that I cannot provide more info there!

Scnrfrg, you should probably discontinue your external drive temporarily to see if that caused the phantom recording issues. Try that for a week and if your box behaves well, it's the external drive. If the same issues reoccur with the drive disconnected, it's the box.

I don't do a lot of recording and when I do, I delete at least 60-70% of what I watch after I watch it, so I don't have an external drive. I am just wondering if so many people are having problems with their external drives working with their boxes after Navigator updates itself, is it worth spending the extra money for an extra drive if it is just going to turn to crap after TWC updates the Navigator software version? It appears that the MDN boxes work better with most of the external drives than the OCAPS.

If only the manufactures would just supply these boxes with more hard drive storage, especially for HD content, there would not even be a reason to have a discussion about external drive support and behavior with these boxes.

Jack

No you're not out of luck necessarily,

It depends not only on the type of box you have but also the type of external drive. The HDC boxes may or may not support the external drive. I think the version of Navigator is more of a culprit than the box. I know people with HDC boxes and external drives that do work. I am not sure of the model of his box, but a relative of mine has had a Western Digital external drive for five years, surviving not only a change-over from Passport to EARLY Navigator, but also the Navigator updates as well. We should enter into this discussion the manufacturer of the external drive as well. I don't know if he has an MDN or an OCAP box. Sorry that I cannot provide more info there!

Scnrfrg, you should probably discontinue your external drive temporarily to see if that caused the phantom recording issues. Try that for a week and if your box behaves well, it's the external drive. If the same issues reoccur with the drive disconnected, it's the box.

I don't do a lot of recording and when I do, I delete at least 60-70% of what I watch after I watch it, so I don't have an external drive. I am just wondering if so many people are having problems with their external drives working with their boxes after Navigator updates itself, is it worth spending the extra money for an extra drive if it is just going to turn to crap after TWC updates the Navigator software version? It appears that the MDN boxes work better with most of the external drives than the OCAPS.

If only the manufactures would just supply these boxes with more hard drive storage, especially for HD content, there would not even be a reason to have a discussion about external drive support and behavior with these boxes.

Jack

I had an HDC box. The external does not work with it with the latest version of Navigator.

The question that I wanted to ask for those of you who are missing your recordings, are you recording these shows as a series or individually?
everytime except one was series recording that was missed. because everything i record on those 2 channels is set up as a series. the one individual recording that i missed was the first missed recording on a 3090 reported in the charlotte thread. the ncaa final
what happens is that in the guide it shows highlighted red and ready to record but at recording time it wont record and will be highlighted grey.
if i push the record button on the remote to attempt to get it to record it will turn red again but doesnt start recording. if i back out of the guide then back in it will be grey again.
if i dont try to record it again by pushing the record button nothing shows up in the recording log. but if i do then i get the message that the channel wasnt available.
Personally, I don't use the Series Manager in Navigator, but I think all versions now have added new Series Priority functionality. If anyone has any hints on working with the Series Manager to resolve recording conflicts, please post.

Jack
the way i use the Series Manager to resolve recording conflicts is if i have a series that i know has multiple airings of the newest show such as dirty jobs, bizarre foods, or deadliest catch i'll put those at the bottom of the list. so that if they conflict with something else that has priority it will just record the next unconflicted airing. all others that dont have multiple air times i just put them in order of importance to me.

everytime except one was series recording that was missed. because everything i record on those 2 channels is set up as a series. the one individual recording that i missed was the first missed recording on a 3090 reported in the charlotte thread. the ncaa final
what happens is that in the guide it shows highlighted red and ready to record but at recording time it wont record and will be highlighted grey.
if i push the record button on the remote to attempt to get it to record it will turn red again but doesnt start recording. if i back out of the guide then back in it will be grey again.
if i dont try to record it again by pushing the record button nothing shows up in the recording log. but if i do then i get the message that the channel wasnt available.

the way i use the Series Manager to resolve recording conflicts is if i have a series that i know has multiple airings of the newest show such as dirty jobs, bizarre foods, or deadliest catch i'll put those at the bottom of the list. so that if they conflict with something else that has priority it will just record the next unconflicted airing. all others that dont have multiple air times i just put them in order of importance to me.

Same here on all of the above.

The box does a nice job of picking up later airings of cable network shows that are missed due to conflicts. Just remember that when you add a new show to series manager, it automatically goes to priority #1... if that's not what you want you'll need to go and drop it down.

what happens is that in the guide it shows highlighted red and ready to record but at recording time it wont record and will be highlighted grey.
if i push the record button on the remote to attempt to get it to record it will turn red again but doesnt start recording. if i back out of the guide then back in it will be grey again.
if i dont try to record it again by pushing the record button nothing shows up in the recording log. but if i do then i get the message that the channel wasnt available.Strange ... this is the same thing that happened to me when I tried (again) to get my external drive to work. One other symptom I noticed is that it quits buffering the current channel.

Strange ... this is the same thing that happened to me when I tried (again) to get my external drive to work. One other symptom I noticed is that it quits buffering the current channel.

for me it will still buffer whatever i'm watching, usually im watching whatever show didnt record.
it is odd that the few people reporting problems in the charlotte area have the 3090's with the 320GB HDD.
and your experience is the same with an external HDD.
i wonder if that guy who traded his 320GB and they gave him a 160GB 3090 is still seeing missed recordings.
that might explain why most other places were getting the 160gb and also why they havent been reporting any problems.
i hope they fix it soon. they aint getting my 360gb back.

hi all,
i looked at a friends 8300 HD running passport .
does this have a pass through setting so i can let my hdtv upconvert ?

i looked at output and all it had was 1080i no setting for "passthrough"
also tried the pressing the "info-guide" button trick and got nothing.

thanks

hi all,
i looked at a friends 8300 HD running passport .
does this have a pass through setting so i can let my hdtv upconvert ?

i looked at output and all it had was 1080i no setting for "passthrough"
also tried the pressing the "info-guide" button trick and got nothing.

thanksI'm sorry, but what do you mean by "this"? Passport or Navigator? (Passport certainly did allow you to pass all resolutions through--there was a setting to specify a list of resolutions to pass through and you could just add every resolution to the list).

I'm sorry, but what do you mean by "this"? Passport or Navigator? (Passport certainly did allow you to pass all resolutions through--there was a setting to specify a list of resolutions to pass through and you could just add every resolution to the list).

Yeah. This is basically the same way that is set up in Navigator. You have a list of resolutions (480i/480p/720p/1080i) and toggle which ones you want to send to your tv. Enabling all will essentially do a 'pass-through' as you mention.

Yeah. This is basically the same way that is set up in Navigator. You have a list of resolutions (480i/480p/720p/1080i) and toggle which ones you want to send to your tv. Enabling all will essentially do a 'pass-through' as you mention.

Yes,

Some also like to set their one resolution to the maximum their TV allows. (This is how I have mine.) This will often allow faster response times in channel selecting and an improved picture. (Make sure that you have the proper cable for HDTV, either HDMI or Component.) If your TV does not support the resolution go to the next highest. If you enable all resolutions or the "Auto Select" option in Navigator, you will get the passthrough capability, but you also might get a slight pause when switching from SD to HD channels and a poor 480 res output.

I have found setting the box to a fixed resolution, will not only allow for faster channel surfing, but a better quality picture even on the SD 480 stations!

Jack

That all depends on a number of factors including the image scaler in your tv or receiver. Generally though with the massive amounts of compression the cableco's use, quality improvement is minimal if not non-existant. The only real improvement is the channel change delay if it means switching resolutions as well. That and if you like the picture stretching options on your tv better than the box (in which case feeding the tv all resolutions would be better).

Is your program guide a bright, electric blue or is it a dark blue with black and gold colors in it?

Also, what model is your DVR box?
Thanks nickdawg

I have problems with recording that i do not ask for i keep gettting dog whisper. I dont know how it started. Its on about 5 times a day I keep getting a message that says that i have 2 recording that will start in 1 min.And i can not change channels. How do i fix this??I have 8300HDC ODN V.3.1.0.11 Every thing else works like it should.

I have problems with recording that i do not ask for i keep getting dog whisper. I don't know how it started. Its on about 5 times a day I keep getting a message that says that i have 2 recording that will start in 1 min.And i can not change channels. How do i fix this??I have 8300HDC ODN V.3.1.0.11 Every thing else works like it should.

Press LIST on your remote and go to Scheduled Recordings, What times are listed? Do they conflict with the time that you have Dog Whisper set to record? If so, you must delete the show(s) that conflict with Dog Whisper so that Dog Whisper can be recorded.

Press LIST and go to Series Manager. Check the times for an series scheduled to be recorded. Does any of them conflict with Dog Whisper? You will have to delete the series that conflicts with Dog Whisper or set a recording time for the series so that it does not conflict with Dog Whisper.

Are you trying to record the series Dog Whisper or just selected episodes?

Jack

Hi all,
is the upconverting quality as good on the 8300 HD as in the 8300 HDC ??
ill be doing 1080i

i have the new HDC model but want to change to the HD but i dont want to see a loss in picture quality
thanks

Hi all,
is the upconverting quality as good on the 8300 HD as in the 8300 HDC ??
ill be doing 1080i

i have the new HDC model but want to change to the HD but i dont want to see a loss in picture quality
thanks

Yes. I went from an 8300HD to a HDC box, and set at 1080i all the time, the PQ is the same between boxes.

Hi all,
is the upconverting quality as good on the 8300 HD as in the 8300 HDC ??
ill be doing 1080i

i have the new HDC model but want to change to the HD but i dont want to see a loss in picture quality
thanksJust curious--why do you want to change from the HDC to the HD? Though I think that the HDC is probably still running slower than the HD (its response time is attrocious on all three units I've seen it run on), the version of the IPG running on it (MDN versus ODN on the HDC) will probably not receive further new features--it may already lack some features recently added to ODN.

Just curious--why do you want to change from the HDC to the HD? Though I think that the HDC is probably still running slower than the HD (its response time is atrocious on all three units I've seen it run on), the version of the IPG running on it (MDN versus ODN on the HDC) will probably not receive further new features--it may already lack some features recently added to ODN.

The only reason that I would dispute this claim of MDN not getting more features is because of the thousands of MDN's that are still out there and working well. It would not be fair to TWC customers to be forced to swap out a perfectly good MDN box for new features. Often when they add new features, they do the OLDER boxes (MDN's) first. I really hope both OCAP and MDN will get updates as appropriate. If Michael's scenario were the case, why not just make Navigator for C-boxes (OCAP) only and TWC could have kept Passport on all MDN units until they died? I think we will see updates for both units. I don't think TWC would have changed the color scheme on the MDN boxes if they were no longer going to support them. BUT whenever the time comes where a customers MDN non-C box dies, they will have to get a C-box (OCAP) unit. I am keeping my MDN until it dies, even if new features only are added to the ODN.

Jack

Just curious--why do you want to change from the HDC to the HD? Though I think that the HDC is probably still running slower than the HD (its response time is attrocious on all three units I've seen it run on), the version of the IPG running on it (MDN versus ODN on the HDC) will probably not receive further new features--it may already lack some features recently added to ODN.
the delays are very annoying.
the features for DVR are better in the HD.

The only reason that I would dispute this claim of MDN not getting more features is because of the thousands of MDN's that are still out there and working well. It would not be fair to TWC customers to be forced to swap out a perfectly good MDN box for new features. Often when they add new features, they do the OLDER boxes (MDN's) first. I really hope both OCAP and MDN will get updates as appropriate. If Michael's scenario were the case, why not just make Navigator for C-boxes (OCAP) only and TWC could have kept Passport on all MDN units until they died? I think we will see updates for both units. I don't think TWC would have changed the color scheme on the MDN boxes if they were no longer going to support them. BUT whenever the time comes where a customers MDN non-C box dies, they will have to get a C-box (OCAP) unit. I am keeping my MDN until it dies, even if new features only are added to the ODN.

JackI hope for MDN users that you're right, Jack. But as they say, "'Fair' is what you pay to get on the bus". Eventually they'll implement some features created originally for the OCAP platform and they won't bother to spend money converting the Java to C. Eventually they'll create some features that won't fit in the memory of the legacy boxes. Unless the features are directly revenue generating, they won't care that the legacy box users don't have them, and even if tthey are revenue generating, if those users inquire about them, they'll just schedule a truck roll to swap out their boxes.

I guess we'll see :).

Just curious--why do you want to change from the HDC to the HD? Though I think that the HDC is probably still running slower than the HD (its response time is attrocious on all three units I've seen it run on), the version of the IPG running on it (MDN versus ODN on the HDC) will probably not receive further new features--it may already lack some features recently added to ODN.

No. I've found that ODN 3.1.1_3 is far superior to MDN 2.4.4-16. The UI looks almost identical, but there are small differences. Menus appear faster, with MDN there was a delay in the "fading of menus. Also, the guide changes faster. On MDN(latest version) and ODN 2.xx.10_11 the guide would momentarily be hung up on the last channel you viewed in the guide. 3.1.1_3 instantly shows the channel you are currently viewing when GUIDE is pushed. Also, MDN takes a few seconds to load data after the box is turned off. This doesn't happen on 3.1.1_3.

Yes, MDN does lack some features. Nearest tune(which makes having ODN worth it) and that Interactive popups setting(in the future).

I hope for MDN users that you're right, Jack. But as they say, "'Fair' is what you pay to get on the bus". Eventually they'll implement some features created originally for the OCAP platform and they won't bother to spend money converting the Java to C. Eventually they'll create some features that won't fit in the memory of the legacy boxes. Unless the features are directly revenue generating, they won't care that the legacy box users don't have them, and even if tthey are revenue generating, if those users inquire about them, they'll just schedule a truck roll to swap out their boxes.

I guess we'll see :).

Are there even that many non-HDC boxes left? The majority have to be 8000, 8300, 3100 and Pioneer boxes that are all SD only. My TWC is now giving out HDC boxes for HD customers. 4250HDC and 8300/8240HDC. I don't think they're reusing any 3100 series boxes(as they probably lack memory just like the old Pioneer boxes). More people are getting HDTVs now than before the OCAP ruling was made. I'll bet very soon those 'legacy MDN boxes' will be even more the minority than a majority.

With the new Navigator software, is there any way to set a daily power off/on timer? At the very least, is there any easier way to set a one-time sleep timer aside from going through the settings > devices menu?

With the new Navigator software, is there any way to set a daily power off/on timer? At the very least, is there any easier way to set a one-time sleep timer aside from going through the settings > devices menu?

For non-DVR users, I'm not sure what these timers do except possibly turn off/on the accessory outlet. It does NOT put my 4250HDC into a lower power consumption mode (I measured to be sure); uses 15w, 24/7.

@nickdawg, ODN 3.1.1_3 did Not make the guide 'lag' go away for me. ODN still seems flaky to me but I'm not going back to an ancient MDN box.

Re the old MDN STBs, TWC has telegraphed their intentions by eliminating the SD box rate in my area. If they have any sense whatsoever, I can't see them buying any more SD boxes or RAM crippled HD ones from now on.

For non-DVR users, I'm not sure what these timers do except possibly turn off/on the accessory outlet. It does NOT put my 4250HDC into a lower power consumption mode (I measured to be sure); uses 15w, 24/7.

@nickdawg, ODN 3.1.1_3 did Not make the guide 'lag' go away for me. ODN still seems flaky to me but I'm not going back to an ancient MDN box.

Re the old MDN STBs, TWC has telegraphed their intentions by eliminating the SD box rate in my area. If they have any sense whatsoever, I can't see them buying any more SD boxes or RAM crippled HD ones from now on.

Are you using a 4250HDC or 8300/8240HDC with 3.1.1_3? I have a 4250 and 8240 and I noticed that the 4250HDC is slower than the 8240(DVR). It seems like the extra tuner the DVRs have helps to eliminate the "Please Wait" when guide data loads.

No. I've found that ODN 3.1.1_3 is far superior to MDN 2.4.4-16. The UI looks almost identical, but there are small differences. Menus appear faster, with MDN there was a delay in the "fading of menus. Also, the guide changes faster. On MDN(latest version) and ODN 2.xx.10_11 the guide would momentarily be hung up on the last channel you viewed in the guide. 3.1.1_3 instantly shows the channel you are currently viewing when GUIDE is pushed. Also, MDN takes a few seconds to load data after the box is turned off. This doesn't happen on 3.1.1_3.

Yes, MDN does lack some features. Nearest tune(which makes having ODN worth it) and that Interactive popups setting(in the future).



Are there even that many non-HDC boxes left? The majority have to be 8000, 8300, 3100 and Pioneer boxes that are all SD only. My TWC is now giving out HDC boxes for HD customers. 4250HDC and 8300/8240HDC. I don't think they're reusing any 3100 series boxes(as they probably lack memory just like the old Pioneer boxes). More people are getting HDTVs now than before the OCAP ruling was made. I'll bet very soon those 'legacy MDN boxes' will be even more the minority than a majority.

TWC San Diego has decided to defeatured 3100HD's for CableCard TV owners.

For non-DVR users, I'm not sure what these timers do except possibly turn off/on the accessory outlet. It does NOT put my 4250HDC into a lower power consumption mode (I measured to be sure); uses 15w, 24/7.

Yeah, I don't use the accessory outlet. But even if it's not actually saving me any power, I relied on the power off timer to cut off the audio feed to my receiver if I fall asleep watching TV. My receiver does have a sleep function, but I still have to set that manually every day.

Are there even that many non-HDC boxes left? The majority have to be 8000, 8300, 3100 and Pioneer boxes that are all SD only.

It seems there are still tons of 8300HD's in circulation and I think the 4000 series SA HD boxes are still in the field and many are doing very well. The SA non-DVR's 3000 are "limited." Going lower than SA 2000 for a non DVR, pretty much defunct (or should be.) The SA 8000 DVR's, also defunct.

Any and all Pioneer boxes are stone age, but shockingly, some divisions in Ohio and Kansas City Missouri are still giving them out!

What I'd like to know, are any divisions still giving out SD boxes? I don't think that here in Metro Milwaukee they are. When TWC dropped the price by $1.00 of HD box rental to be the same as SD box rental, there really is not a need to carry SD boxes anymore. It's nice to have an HD box, even if you don't yet have an HD set, because when you get an HD set (with the proper Component Cable or HDMI Cable hookup--one cannot stress how important that is, and why stores don't tell you this is mind-boggling.) You need the proper cable for HD. With an HD set, proper cable wiring/hookup and an pre-existing HD box, you'll have HDTV without needed to swap out your box.

Jack

It seems there are still tons of 8300HD's in circulation and I think the 4000 series SA HD boxes are still in the field and many are doing very well. The SA non-DVR's 3000 are "limited." Going lower than SA 2000 for a non DVR, pretty much defunct (or should be.) The SA 8000 DVR's, also defunct.

The 4000 series is OCAP. The 4250HDC runs ODN. All the DVRs given out at my location have been in the SA crates, so I assume they are newer C boxes, as non-OCAP boxes probably wouldn't be shipped in crates.

Any and all Pioneer boxes are stone age, but shockingly, some divisions in Ohio and Kansas City Missouri are still giving them out!

What I'd like to know, are any divisions still giving out SD boxes? I don't think that here in Metro Milwaukee they are. When TWC dropped the price by $1.00 of HD box rental to be the same as SD box rental, there really is not a need to carry SD boxes anymore. It's nice to have an HD box, even if you don't yet have an HD set, because when you get an HD set (with the proper Component Cable or HDMI Cable hookup--one cannot stress how important that is, and why stores don't tell you this is mind-boggling.) You need the proper cable for HD. With an HD set, proper cable wiring/hookup and an pre-existing HD box, you'll have HDTV without needed to swap out your box.

Jack

In that case, let's hope people actually keep all the cables that come with their new box! It sounds stupid, but I've seen it in person. There was an empty SA crate on the sidewalk outside my TWC store last time I went. I looked inside and the power cord, component cables and instruction manuals were in it. Looks like the person unpacked the actual STB on the sidewalk and left everything else! :eek::eek::eek:

The 4000 series is OCAP. The 4250HDC runs ODN. All the DVRs given out at my location have been in the SA crates, so I assume they are newer C boxes, as non-OCAP boxes probably wouldn't be shipped in crates.

Actually, the OCAP (HDC) boxes are the only ones you are going to find brand new in the crates/boxes since those are the only ones that TWC is allows to legally purchase these days after the FCC mandate forcing cable companies to purchase only cablecard STBs rather than those like the MDN equipment where the cryptography hardware was integrated. Anytime the MDN equipment is returned, they just throw it in a plastic bag and store it in a cupboard (at least that is what they do here. And I think the same goes for the unseen 'warehouses').

This is also another reason why I agree that I doubt they are going to make much improvements to the MDN version of Navigator now that it is 'good enough'.

While the FCC mandate only specifies cablecard STBs, everyone is moving to OCAP now. The MDN boxes/code is essentially obsolete.
Once the MDN boxes croak, that is the end of them. Customers will get new OCAP boxes as a replacement.
Cuts down on the waste of needing separate builds for every make and model of box down to just one OCAP dedicated codebase.

What I'd like to know, are any divisions still giving out SD boxes? I don't think that here in Metro Milwaukee they are. When TWC dropped the price by $1.00 of HD box rental to be the same as SD box rental, there really is not a need to carry SD boxes anymore. It's nice to have an HD box, even if you don't yet have an HD set, because when you get an HD set (with the proper Component Cable or HDMI Cable hookup--one cannot stress how important that is, and why stores don't tell you this is mind-boggling.) You need the proper cable for HD. With an HD set, proper cable wiring/hookup and an pre-existing HD box, you'll have HDTV without needed to swap out your box.

This idea I like and I have long advocated. All HD boxes can effortlessly downconvert HD programming to SD 480i for RF, composite, S-Video, or Component. Get every one of your customers on HD boxes and you can eliminate the SD copies of those channels that simulcast in HD already. And lastly, the quality of the HD channels on SDTV's is going to look MILES ahead of their over-compressed SD counterparts.

And then of course you have the seamless upgrade if you get an HD set and the prices are the same for both SD and HD equipment.

Get every one of your customers on HD boxes and you can eliminate the SD copies of those channels that simulcast in HD already.

What good does that do? SD digital channels are not the problem. The real problem is that SD analog channels still exist. SD digital channels can be packed 10 or 11 on one QAM. That's far more efficient than the ONE analog channel that used to be carried on it. I think SD digital channels should still exist, at least until HDTVs are at 75% penetration. Only analog should be going away.

This is also another reason why I agree that I doubt they are going to make much improvements to the MDN version of Navigator now that it is 'good enough'.

While the FCC mandate only specifies cablecard STBs, everyone is moving to OCAP now. The MDN boxes/code is essentially obsolete.
Once the MDN boxes croak, that is the end of them. Customers will get new OCAP boxes as a replacement.
Cuts down on the waste of needing separate builds for every make and model of box down to just one OCAP dedicated codebase.


The one thing I've noticed having an 8240HDC and 4250HDC is when TWC updates the software, both boxes shut off and reboot at the same time. The ODN software is the same across all the various HDC boxes. When I used to have regular(non C) boxes, I noticed they had to(or chose to) update each model of box individually. Probably in case of error.

That's the beauty of OCAP. It's built from the ground up on Java so takes on it's WORM (Write once, run many) philosophy. One codebase and it'll run everywhere. It's only the underlying VM that interacts with the hardware that needs to be written for each box (But thankfully has much less need for updates than the customer facing UI). There's of course small differences like specific features on certain box models (like the networked DVR functionality on the Samsung's), but that's still less work than the MDN software.

As for the channels: Yeah, that is true. But then that requires doing something like Comcast and offering free feature-less digital converters to customers who don't want the bigger, clunkier boxes and even then some are really set in their ways and don't want to mess with it. I will have to admit that having to get stuck with that on the secondary tv's here that are only occasionally used is a bit more than I want to deal with. And even then I think Comcast only gives 1 out free and the rest have a fee per converter. That and hasn't TWC been advertising like mad that you don't need a box for your tv unlike Satellite and the DTV transition?

What good does that do? SD digital channels are not the problem. The real problem is that SD analog channels still exist. SD digital channels can be packed 10 or 11 on one QAM. That's far more efficient than the ONE analog channel that used to be carried on it. I think SD digital channels should still exist, at least until HDTVs are at 75% penetration. Only analog should be going away.

Let us not forget what happened in the NYC (Manhattan) market... in December 08 we got about 65-70 new HD channels all at once. Came about because something like 30-40 analog channels got dropped. And we STILL have something like 30 remaining!

That's the beauty of OCAP. It's built from the ground up on Java so takes on it's WORM (Write once, run many) philosophy. One codebase and it'll run everywhere. It's only the underlying VM that interacts with the hardware that needs to be written for each box (But thankfully has much less need for updates than the customer facing UI). There's of course small differences like specific features on certain box models (like the networked DVR functionality on the Samsung's), but that's still less work than the MDN software.

Let us not forget that OCAP is nothing more than a platform for upselling new and "enhanced" services, period. Not only that, but Java also brings along a LOT of it's own baggage.

No. I've found that ODN 3.1.1_3 is far superior to MDN 2.4.4-16. The UI looks almost identical, but there are small differences. Menus appear faster, with MDN there was a delay in the "fading of menus. Also, the guide changes faster. On MDN(latest version) and ODN 2.xx.10_11 the guide would momentarily be hung up on the last channel you viewed in the guide. 3.1.1_3 instantly shows the channel you are currently viewing when GUIDE is pushed. Also, MDN takes a few seconds to load data after the box is turned off. This doesn't happen on 3.1.1_3.

Yes, MDN does lack some features. Nearest tune(which makes having ODN worth it) and that Interactive popups setting(in the future).


Both my 8300HD and 8300HDC are irritations. But the HDC is noticeably less responsive. And that makes sense since the HD has double the RAM vs the HDC.

What good does that do? SD digital channels are not the problem. The real problem is that SD analog channels still exist. SD digital channels can be packed 10 or 11 on one QAM. That's far more efficient than the ONE analog channel that used to be carried on it. I think SD digital channels should still exist, at least until HDTVs are at 75% penetration. Only analog should be going away.

In my market, analogs are in full force, and I still have about 64 HD channels, basically all but 2 of the HD channels that I care to have and TW has contract with (see http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7244431#post7244431). So, with SDV, bandwidth seem to not be the problem. Forcing customers to use converter boxes for analog TVs would be a problem, at least in my household. I've got 3 analog TVs as well as an old ReplyTV DVR, and not having to use converter boxes for them is a big plus for me.

Let us not forget that OCAP is nothing more than a platform for upselling new and "enhanced" services, period.Only partly true. OCAP frees the service providers from the SA/Moto cable STB duopoly. Just about every consumer electronics OEM will be offering an OCAP box aimed at cable provider leasing and the providers will be able to pick and choose on price and features, just as you and I can when we shop for electronics. I'd wager that's much more important to them than "upselling new and 'enhanced' services", though the ability to do that is another plus. (Personally I think that they overestimate the appeal of such things, but then I don't know what sort of things they have planned).

In my market, analogs are in full force, and I still have about 64 HD channels, basically all but 2 of the HD channels that I care to have and TW has contract with (see http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7244431#post7244431). So, with SDV, bandwidth seem to not be the problem. Forcing customers to use converter boxes for analog TVs would be a problem, at least in my household. I've got 3 analog TVs as well as an old ReplyTV DVR, and not having to use converter boxes for them is a big plus for me.

They're beginning SDV in my area currently. The way it currently is, it's a problem. This week is the first time in a month and a half that I haven't had any problems with those SDV channels. Other areas are having similar or even worse problems. And there are still a few people who do not even have SDV at all in the NE Ohio area.

They're beginning SDV in my area currently. The way it currently is, it's a problem. This week is the first time in a month and a half that I haven't had any problems with those SDV channels. Other areas are having similar or even worse problems. And there are still a few people who do not even have SDV at all in the NE Ohio area.

Don't assume by what you have experienced unless you are willing to run a detailed and impartial poll of all TWC customers around here.

I could say just the opposite that SDV is working great for the majority of people save for the few with problems like you just because every one of those channels has been working great in my neck of the woods.

So far those who have openly posted here on this forum (and over in the Cleveland TWC thread) about SDV are in a limited section of TW's NEO footprint.

Don't assume by what you have experienced unless you are willing to run a detailed and impartial poll of all TWC customers around here.

I could say just the opposite that SDV is working great for the majority of people save for the few with problems like you just because every one of those channels has been working great in my neck of the woods.

So far those who have openly posted here on this forum (and over in the Cleveland TWC thread) about SDV are in a limited section of TW's NEO footprint.

I haven't had a single SDV channel failed to tune; sometimes it might be a little slower, but I mostly watch recorded shows anyway, and I haven't had lost recordings. My area has been using SDV for quite a while.

So a new version of Navigator is coming out soon in San Diego. The Samsung 32xx bugs will be fixed soon. Bob Barlow says they are so minor he thinks you won't notice them ;).

Are you using a 4250HDC or 8300/8240HDC with 3.1.1_3? I have a 4250 and 8240 and I noticed that the 4250HDC is slower than the 8240(DVR). It seems like the extra tuner the DVRs have helps to eliminate the "Please Wait" when guide data loads.

Just checking in from India here. I moved out of the USA for a job, which I will return to, but probably to an area which is served by a cable company in chapter 11 bankruptcy (Charter) and will have no satellite choice due to company requirements that I might have to move very often within the USA. If you do not understand, this means that I will be renting an apartment while I hold this job, and many apartment landlords probably would not want lots of satellite dishes attached to his or her buildings by lots of carpenters and do-it-yourselfers of unknown skill. I am not trying to insult the master carpenters and do-it-yourselfers, but a stupid carpenter or a tenant who does not know what he or she is doing when mounting a satellite dish could wind up getting a lawsuit served to the landlord if a poorly-mounted dish fell on something or someone.

Meanwhile, before my move I was unable to view the guide beyond today or tomorrow after ODN 3.1.1_3 was pushed to my family's DVR. It turned out that this knocked out the eSATA disk, which apparently caused all hard disk accesses to fail without caring whether the disk that needed to be accessed was internal or external. Removing the disk fixed this. Also, I noticed that the internal hard drive sometimes made lots of clicks for no apparent reason until I found out that those hard disk accesses corresponded to times when the guide was updated. I realized that if the guide loads with very little delay after going past today or tomorrow on a DVR, if guide data loads cause a "Please wait" message to show up on the 4250HDC, and if guide data loads fail on an 8300HDC when all hard disk accesses are failing due to eSATA issues, this means that ODN is reading all of the guide data at once when it furst arrives and writes it to the hard drive for further use.

Don't assume by what you have experienced unless you are willing to run a detailed and impartial poll of all TWC customers around here.

I could say just the opposite that SDV is working great for the majority of people save for the few with problems like you just because every one of those channels has been working great in my neck of the woods.

So far those who have openly posted here on this forum (and over in the Cleveland TWC thread) about SDV are in a limited section of TW's NEO footprint.

I'm also using Ohio Media Watch where they posted:
We had been having problems since the end of April during the planned expansion of the new HD channels.

The cable box would keep re-booting itself every 10 minutes it seemed like. Calls to Time Warner revealed that there was a problem but of course FAILED to tell their paying customers anything. Last weekend was especially bad, we finally just unhooked the cable box and just hooked up the regular cable line to the tv. Last Monday seemed to improve but was still re-booting itself.

Our area received the new HD channels on Saturday but with problems. Many of the new channels had sound but no picture. As of last night, it had improved to a degree but you still get a 5 second delay before the picture and sound come on. CNBC HD has yet to work, only get sound.

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2009/05/twc-updates-everyone.html

Also, Hookbill (and I believe someone else too) has said they have no signs of SDV at all. Plus another commenter has reported problems with the new channels up to today, while my channels are working fine. I do not consider this "project" to be very successful the way it is currently being executed

I'm also using Ohio Media Watch where they posted:


http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2009/05/twc-updates-everyone.html

Also, Hookbill (and I believe someone else too) has said they have no signs of SDV at all. Plus another commenter has reported problems with the new channels up to today, while my channels are working fine. I do not consider this "project" to be very successful the way it is currently being executed

SDV varies from headend to headend. You want to tell me how many are scattered around the NEO area? Next you want to tell me between of myself, you, hookbill, OMW, and the few who have posted in the Cleveland thread, how many headends that covers? A small percentage of the whole.

Seems to be you should be blaming the numbnuts people working up in the headends in your area and not Jasso, TWC, or SDV specifically.

Both my 8300HD and 8300HDC are irritations. But the HDC is noticeably less responsive. And that makes sense since the HD has double the RAM vs the HDC.

Actually, the 8300HDC TWC orders has double the RAM of the 8300HD that TWC used to order because the 8300HDC needs to run a Java virtual machine (JVM) in order to run the ODN software. However, even after taking out the portion that is overhead for running the JVM, there is more RAM that is guaranteed available that can be used for more features compared to the platforms that the legacy MDN software has to run on like the Explorer 2100 series of cable boxes, which have what seems like pathetic amounts of RAM compared to today's machines. The 8300HD does not have enough RAM to run a JVM, so it must run the legacy MDN software.

However, because MDN is compiled for the target machine and not interpreted or recompiled on the fly like how a Java program runs in a JVM, it will often be speedier than ODN unless ODN uses some clever time-saving trick like saving the guide data to the hard disk whenever it arrives, which was lacking in the now obsoleted version of MDN that I used to use before a critical bug forced me to get rid of MDN at that time and gamble on ODN, which paid off for that moment.

... and the "SDV" problems could just be good 'ol RF problems (in the local plant or drop) on the channels in the SDV pool, not actual SDV problems.

SDV varies from headend to headend. You want to tell me how many are scattered around the NEO area? Next you want to tell me between of myself, you, hookbill, OMW, and the few who have posted in the Cleveland thread, how many headends that covers? A small percentage of the whole.

Seems to be you should be blaming the numbnuts people working up in the headends in your area and not Jasso, TWC, or SDV specifically.

Before I got distracted with something on Cleveland TWC, I was going to make that my next point. Unless the machines have come alive and are going to take over, I do not blame the SDV technology. It's not the technology's fault. It's the people at TWC. Reading PedjaR's comment, I take it he has much better people in his area than anyone in NE Ohio.

However, even with my TV working for the last three days, I still think the whole NE Ohio SDV project is hardly a success.

And unfortunately it is a catch 22 situation from their end because if they wouldn't have done this, we'd all still be here bitching that we have a paltry HD selection and threaten to leave.

So a new version of Navigator is coming out soon in San Diego. The Samsung 32xx bugs will be fixed soon. Bob Barlow says they are so minor he thinks you won't notice them ;).

Is this just for Samsung boxes? Or for the other OCAP units as well? Or for everyone? Samsung OCAP, SA-OCAP, and MDN?

They always used to do the legacy boxes that had Navigator first. I really hope that MDN isn't being abandoned for updates yet! I would be happy with Keyword Search, than the guide would be fine for me. (Even without Manual Recording.)

It sounds like the "OCRAP" acronym, could soon be taken out of the C-boxes! Interesting that we are seeing a trend with people starting to like the C-boxes. Still holding on to my MDN box which works FLAWLESSLY. However, there is still a lot of disparity from division to division on quality and SDV roll-out.

We still have the reliable SARA users sitting in the dark with not only no updates since the thing was invented, but no Navigator news, no nothing. I feel your pain! (Are you NYC 70-100 HD channel subs on TWC coming in any better now?) This raises a question on its own. Will SARA boxes get a Navigator download when the time comes? (In which case it would certainly make sense to continue to update both OCAP/MDN modules) OR do you foresee a truck roll-out to swap the SARA units with Navigator? Aren't some NYC people still Passport? That's thousands of boxes to replace through a truck roll if TWC-NYC SARA or Passport does not go with a Navigator download!

You SARA subs with HD got the most channels, with the most reliable guide, but also the most out-dated. I really don't know what sort of a trade off there is here. There's always some bad mixed in with some good based on your division, node, head-end, type of box, and software used.

Jack

For what it's worth, here in CNY we have over 85 HD channels (actual channels and not all fluff PPV's) with SDV performing flawlessly. However, we are stuck with SARA software and no indication at all when we could possibly see Nav. Remember, we were told Q1 of LAST YEAR for Nav deployment here. Now, for me the trade off is acceptable (for now). I was ready to switch over to DirecTV because we had crap for an HD lineup AND SARA. The new HD lineup has me sticking with TW for the time being. That said, I really am growing tired of SARA. The search is worthless and this is a feature I'd really like to see.

Another gripe is not related to Nav, but I'm sure others will agree. Two tuners is not enough. We need a quad tuner set top. Tonight while watching WWE Judgment Day on PPV, I was interrupted twice and had to cancel other recordings because of lack of active tuners. This is where third party support can really step up. Hopefully we can see a third party box with quad tuner Tru2Way!

One other up side to SARA that helped me decide to stay with TW was the fact that I was able to add on a 1TB external drive whereas Nav has been spotty with eSATA support. The other factor was cost - TW triple play for me is FAR cheaper than D*.

Is this just for Samsung boxes? Or for the other OCAP units as well? Or for everyone? Samsung OCAP, SA-OCAP, and MDN?

They always used to do the legacy boxes that had Navigator first. I really hope that MDN isn't being abandoned for updates yet! I would be happy with Keyword Search, than the guide would be fine for me. (Even without Manual Recording.)

It sounds like the "OCRAP" acronym, could soon be taken out of the C-boxes! Interesting that we are seeing a trend with people starting to like the C-boxes. Still holding on to my MDN box which works FLAWLESSLY. However, there is still a lot of disparity from division to division on quality and SDV roll-out.

We still have the reliable SARA users sitting in the dark with not only no updates since the thing was invented, but no Navigator news, no nothing. I feel your pain! (Are you NYC 70-100 HD channel subs on TWC coming in any better now?) This raises a question on its own. Will SARA boxes get a Navigator download when the time comes? (In which case it would certainly make sense to continue to update both OCAP/MDN modules) OR do you foresee a truck roll-out to swap the SARA units with Navigator? Aren't some NYC people still Passport? That's thousands of boxes to replace through a truck roll if TWC-NYC SARA or Passport does not go with a Navigator download!

You SARA subs with HD got the most channels, with the most reliable guide, but also the most out-dated. I really don't know what sort of a trade off there is here. There's always some bad mixed in with some good based on your division, node, head-end, type of box, and software used.

Jack

If MPEG-4 ever gets to be deployed then you'll be forced to swap to an ODN box :). He said it was an ODN update which I presume would go to all boxes. I also expect a new MDN update. Could be a bug fix one or have new features like you mentioned earlier.

Ben i really don't think navigator is far off ...tech support seems to think it will be very soon ...who knows ! I keep patiently looking in that mailbox for a mailer on the navigator deployment . I know they are testing in several divisions it's been a little while since they began testing so i think maybe july or august we might have it !:)

Ben i really don't think navigator is far off ...tech support seems to think it will be very soon ...who knows ! I keep patiently looking in that mailbox for a mailer on the navigator deployment . I know they are testing in several divisions it's been a little while since they began testing so i think maybe july or august we might have it !:)

Maybe so, but if they scrap my eSATA drive I'm going to be EXTREMELY PO'ed! As long as I get a Nav version with eSATA support I'll be a happy camper unless they deploy hardware with a larger drive. I personally want a Moxi or a Tivo with Tru2Way support so I don't have to bother with TWC's crap. I'm leaning toward Tivo now because they offer OTA integration. I just wish we'd see a quad tuner or at the very least a dual plus OTA since a bulk of what I record is off locals.

My other thought is they will just leave it alone for awhile because the SDV is working so well. I'm not certain if they are required to renew the license or not. I'm inclined to think they can keep what ever base version of SARA was initially installed to the hardware since it's been three years and we haven't seen an update.

I know i keep asking about the "sammies "when i get a chance ! I would think time warner in our divsion ... the hd content that has been added ... with navigator updated would be something time warner would pride themselves on due to those improvments ...kind of a feather in there caps! Our division would have the best of both worlds .I do hear we are losing hdnet channels though at the end of the month !

I know i keep asking about the "sammies "when i get a chance !

Better hope they have ODN 4 ready before they give you a Sammie... last night, Navigator crashed on mine about 5 mins before In Plain Sight started. It crashed when I did a totally foolish thing... I pressed the GUIDE button. (Geez, when will I learn.) Anyway, it crashed with a message along the lines that "the user interface was unavailable, press the yellow key to reboot". The basic box functions were still working... just no guide/menus/banners (though there was a corrupted banner stuck on the screen)

Since it sometimes takes a dozen or more reboot attempts for Navigator to reload on my sammy , I just watched IPS with a corrupted banner across the screen the whole time. It only took two reboot attempts to get Navi running again after IPS (and it actually recorded it even though there was no functioing GUI at the time).

Because they are giving out 160GB 3090s here now, I was hoping a software update was forthcoming here in Charlotte and have stuck out the problems with this box hoping they would be corrected with an update... but I'm really starting to use up my normally large reservoir of patience.

Better hope they have ODN 4 ready before they give you a Sammie... last night, Navigator crashed on mine about 5 mins before In Plain Sight started. It crashed when I did a totally foolish thing... I pressed the GUIDE button. (Geez, when will I learn.) Anyway, it crashed with a message along the lines that "the user interface was unavailable, press the yellow key to reboot". The basic box functions were still working... just no guide/menus/banners (though there was a corrupted banner stuck on the screen)

Since it sometimes takes a dozen or more reboot attempts for Navigator to reload on my sammy , I just watched IPS with a corrupted banner across the screen the whole time. It only took two reboot attempts to get Navi running again after IPS (and it actually recorded it even though there was no functioning GUI at the time).

Because they are giving out 160GB 3090s here now, I was hoping a software update was forthcoming here in Charlotte and have stuck out the problems with this box hoping they would be corrected with an update... but I'm really starting to use up my normally large reservoir of patience.

This example illustrates that newer isn't always better and can make things worse! A perfect example about Navigator's behavior which seems to be pretty stable with MDN. (At least on a box with a lot of RAM.) The C-language code for MDN appears to allow for a more stable platform. OCAP, written in Java, is not without its own problems. The main issues that the C-boxes are being rushed too fast with poor quality control, and there still is not a consensus that Navigator is as reliable on ODN as MDN.

Opinions vary depending on whom you talk to. However, I would rather have a stable MDN box than new OCAP features that could screw up the foundation of an ODN box. This is not to discredit the new Samsung's, but the problem is that they might still be a little "too new." where bugs need to be worked out.

A prime example why TWC should continue with updates for MDN until such time that the 8300HD boxes die out on their own. In three years, when the new Samsungs have the bugs worked out and can be as reliable as MDN, than TWC can let MDN fall by the waste-side, but not now. There's entire communities with SARA systems that WILL be getting MDN Navigator updates downloaded, so TWC should add "Newest Tune" to MDN and any subsequent updates for both MDN/OCAP until the time that there is a general consensus that the OCAP units are reliable. What good are new features on a buggy OS platform, which seems to still be the case with the SA-C boxes being rushed and the Samsung's still crawling with bugs?

Jack

This example illustrates that newer isn't always better and can make things worse! A perfect example about Navigator's behavior which seems to be pretty stable with MDN. (At least on a box with a lot of RAM.) The C-language code for MDN appears to allow for a more stable platform. OCAP, written in Java, is not without its own problems. The main issues that the C-boxes are being rushed too fast with poor quality control, and there still is not a consensus that Navigator is as reliable on ODN as MDN.

Opinions vary depending on whom you talk to. However, I would rather have a stable MDN box than new OCAP features that could screw up the foundation of an ODN box. This is not to discredit the new Samsung's, but the problem is that they might still be a little "too new." where bugs need to be worked out.

A prime example why TWC should continue with updates for MDN until such time that the 8300HD boxes die out on their own. In three years, when the new Samsungs have the bugs worked out and can be as reliable as MDN, than TWC can let MDN fall by the waste-side, but not now. There's entire communities with SARA systems that WILL be getting MDN Navigator updates downloaded, so TWC should add "Newest Tune" to MDN and any subsequent updates for both MDN/OCAP until the time that there is a general consensus that the OCAP units are reliable. What good are new features on a buggy OS platform, which seems to still be the case with the SA-C boxes being rushed and the Samsung's still crawling with bugs?

Jack

I don't believe the issues I have are a condemnation of ODN... it worked just fine on my 8300HDC. Nor do I believe that they are a condemnation of the Samsung, per sé. However, I DO believe that the version(s) of ODN currently deployed with the 3090 are not fully compatible with nor optimized for the Samsung tru2way platform.

Like it or not, the handwriting is on the wall for MDN and non-OCAP boxes. There is no escaping the fact that both the application and the platforms it runs on are nearing EOL. It would be in both TWC's and OUR best interests to concentrate resources on furthering the development of ODN. The ONLY thing MDN has going for it now is a working eSATA interface, and history has shown us that its just as likely that an update to MDN will break eSATA as it is to fix anything else.

A version of ODN that plays nice under the tru2way spec (which the Samung is designed around) could open the door to a lot more options for everyone.

BTW... information is surfacing in on the Charlotte TWC thread indicating that other boxes, including 8300HD/MDN units, are missing FOX and CBS recordings. Considering that the Samsung missed recording issues seem to be limited to Charlotte area, and to the same two channels, I'm beginning to suspect that there may be a headend, guide data or something more along those lines as the root of that problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_TV_Binary_Interchange_Format

MDN is compatible with EBIF which could keep it going for a few more years. Though I think ODN will be their primary platform.

Sorry to go off-topic a bit,

But does anyone know what IPG OS is used by Cox Cable and Comcast? Are they Passport, Navigator, or SARA?

Also does ANY cable system out there support an updated version of SARA? What I mean here is a cable co. that is pushing updates to SARA boxes where recent features can be compared, or has SARA always been ancient?

Jack

Ben i really don't think navigator is far off ...tech support seems to think it will be very soon ...who knows ! I keep patiently looking in that mailbox for a mailer on the navigator deployment . I know they are testing in several divisions it's been a little while since they began testing so i think maybe july or august we might have it !:)

I think they may be taking extra time in NYC areas for Navigator's deployment, because SARA, while ugly as an IPG, has been reliable and they already have SDV capability, so Navigator really cannot screw up here. Even some years ago with all the rumors of when NYC was getting it, this division was believed to be last because SARA already had the SDV that Passport didn't. Keep posting any updates, SARA users! It will be very interesting to observe the rollout.

Jack

BTW... information is surfacing in on the Charlotte TWC thread indicating that other boxes, including 8300HD/MDN units, are missing FOX and CBS recordings. Considering that the Samsung missed recording issues seem to be limited to Charlotte area, and to the same two channels, I'm beginning to suspect that there may be a head-end, guide data or something more along those lines as the root of that problem.

I agree,

Sounds like a signal head-end issue.

Jack

Sorry to go off-topic a bit,

But does anyone know what IPG OS is used by Cox Cable and Comcast? Are they Passport, Navigator, or SARA?

Also does ANY cable system out there support an updated version of SARA? What I mean here is a cable co. that is pushing updates to SARA boxes where recent features can be compared, or has SARA always been ancient?

JackCox has been using SARA in a lot of markets, including here in San Diego (when I lived in a Cox neighborhood, my frustration with SARA drove me to spend $900 on a TiVo Series3 w/3 years service after 3 weeks of using it). Cox is having a custom tru2way IPG developed by NDS Group (who developed the IPG For DirecTV's boxes--see this (http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/190388-NDS_Preps_Cox_for_Tru2way.php) and this (http://www.nds.com/solutions/epgs.php)).

I'm not sure what Comcast has been using--some Gemstar product, I think (see this (http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/10/hands-on-with-the-latest-tv-guide-software-comcast-dvr/)). I do know that they've been offering a TiVo-produced alternative IPG on their boxes in some markets for a few dollars a month for a year or two now (see this (http://www.comcast.com/Tivo/)).

Better hope they have ODN 4 ready before they give you a Sammie... last night, Navigator crashed on mine about 5 mins before In Plain Sight started. It crashed when I did a totally foolish thing... I pressed the GUIDE button. (Geez, when will I learn.) Anyway, it crashed with a message along the lines that "the user interface was unavailable, press the yellow key to reboot". The basic box functions were still working... just no guide/menus/banners (though there was a corrupted banner stuck on the screen)

Since it sometimes takes a dozen or more reboot attempts for Navigator to reload on my sammy , I just watched IPS with a corrupted banner across the screen the whole time. It only took two reboot attempts to get Navi running again after IPS (and it actually recorded it even though there was no functioing GUI at the time).

Because they are giving out 160GB 3090s here now, I was hoping a software update was forthcoming here in Charlotte and have stuck out the problems with this box hoping they would be corrected with an update... but I'm really starting to use up my normally large reservoir of patience.

haha, That sounds like the early days of my 8300HDC with the ugly blue ODN(in late 2007). The box would stop working randomly during recordings and have to be rebooted multiple times to fix the bug.

One word of advice, never use the PIP window to "check" on a recording. Whenever I did it on ODN2(many versions ago) it would cause the recording to mess up. I still to this day haven't tried that with MDN or ODN out of fear of missing a show!

By any chance was your recording on a SDV channel? One thing I noticed checking my list is one of my shows on TLCHD(SDV) this morning was only for one minute. That has happened several times with SDV channels only.

For two weeks:
When I record "A Minute With Stan Hooper" on UHD(SDV, the second episode is always cut off after 15 minutes.
Clean Sweep on TLCHD is hit or miss each day. Last week it didn't record at all one day, but there was a problem with the entire channel the day before. Today, the 7AM airing was one minute. One minute of talking followed by cutting off.
In Plain Sight on USAHD recorded OK, but it is in the older, more established batch of HD channels. Also Palladia records OK.

This example illustrates that newer isn't always better and can make things worse! A perfect example about Navigator's behavior which seems to be pretty stable with MDN. (At least on a box with a lot of RAM.) The C-language code for MDN appears to allow for a more stable platform. OCAP, written in Java, is not without its own problems. The main issues that the C-boxes are being rushed too fast with poor quality control, and there still is not a consensus that Navigator is as reliable on ODN as MDN.

Opinions vary depending on whom you talk to. However, I would rather have a stable MDN box than new OCAP features that could screw up the foundation of an ODN box. This is not to discredit the new Samsung's, but the problem is that they might still be a little "too new." where bugs need to be worked out.

A prime example why TWC should continue with updates for MDN until such time that the 8300HD boxes die out on their own. In three years, when the new Samsungs have the bugs worked out and can be as reliable as MDN, than TWC can let MDN fall by the waste-side, but not now. There's entire communities with SARA systems that WILL be getting MDN Navigator updates downloaded, so TWC should add "Newest Tune" to MDN and any subsequent updates for both MDN/OCAP until the time that there is a general consensus that the OCAP units are reliable. What good are new features on a buggy OS platform, which seems to still be the case with the SA-C boxes being rushed and the Samsung's still crawling with bugs?

Jack

That's not necessarily true. Other than the eSATA issues, there is nothing wrong with ODN 3.1.1_0 and 3.1.1_3 on SA HDC boxes. Until TWC rebooted my boxes to add new HD channels, my 8240HDC lasted over two weeks without a reboot. The 4250HDC is equally reliable. I consider the 4250HDC to be far superior to any other non-DVR box TWC has. The Pioneer boxes were garbage and I'm willing to bet the older SA boxes are not far behind.

As for the DVR, I've had no problems with the 8240HDC. All regular linear channels record fine. I've only missed a handful of recordings on SDV channels that are new and TWC is working the bugs out of them still.

Believe it or not, I don't think there's anything inferior about an ODN box nor anything superior about an MDN box. So far I've had better experiences with SA HDC boxes and ODN. I'm sure the Sammie boxes will get better too, once that new software is released.

haha, That sounds like the early days of my 8300HDC with the ugly blue ODN(in late 2007). The box would stop working randomly during recordings and have to be rebooted multiple times to fix the bug.

One word of advice, never use the PIP window to "check" on a recording. Whenever I did it on ODN2(many versions ago) it would cause the recording to mess up. I still to this day haven't tried that with MDN or ODN out of fear of missing a show!

By any chance was your recording on a SDV channel? One thing I noticed checking my list is one of my shows on TLCHD(SDV) this morning was only for one minute. That has happened several times with SDV channels only.


For two weeks:

When I record "A Minute With Stan Hooper" on UHD(SDV, the second episode is always cut off after 15 minutes.
Clean Sweep on TLCHD is hit or miss each day. Last week it didn't record at all one day, but there was a problem with the entire channel the day before. Today, the 7AM airing was one minute. One minute of talking followed by cutting off.
In Plain Sight on USAHD recorded OK, but it is in the older, more established batch of HD channels. Also Palladia records OK.


Missed recordings have all been CBS and FOX, which most definitely are not SDV. USA HD is SDV but, hell... that recorded last night without the Navigator GUI even running. SDV has worked rather well here right from the get-go.

The crashed GUI I see doesn't have any connection to recording... its more mundane things like changing channels or calling up the guide that crash it.

I actually do use the PIP to check recordings... especially when I have two running simultaneously. Never had an issue doing that with either the 8300HDC or the 3090.

I think they may be taking extra time in NYC areas for Navigator's deployment, because SARA, while ugly as an IPG, has been reliable and they already have SDV capability, so Navigator really cannot screw up here. Even some years ago with all the rumors of when NYC was getting it, this division was believed to be last because SARA already had the SDV that Passport didn't. Keep posting any updates, SARA users! It will be very interesting to observe the rollout.

Jack

Jack, I don't think there's any SARA/TWC here... our legacy is Passport.

Has anyone with SARA got Navigator yet. Still on SARA 1.91.14 here in Greensboro NC and cannot get any information about Navigator from our local division.

i have a 8300 HDC with mystro.

when i turn my HDMI connected TV off i get that :
"you TV does not allow display of this program through the DVI input source"
on my other TV connection.

i think its from the HDMI handshaking that has stopped.

any way around this ?

will the 8300 HD box do the same ?

thanks

I'm not sure what Comcast has been using--some Gemstar product, I think (see this). I do know that they've been offering a TiVo-produced alternative IPG on their boxes in some markets for a few dollars a month for a year or two now (see this).

Mike,

One thing that I heard was that Comcast with their integrated Tivo IPG has been a colossal nightmare, reminiscent of the earlier days of Navigator. Comcast subs should just ask for a box with the regular guide.

Jack

Mike,

One thing that I heard was that Comcast with their integrated Tivo IPG has been a colossal nightmare, reminiscent of the earlier days of Navigator. Comcast subs should just ask for a box with the regular guide.

JackI'll have to ask my buddy at TiVo about it--I think that he worked on it a bit (early board bring-up, I think).

Just curious--why do you edit URL tags out of quotes? I don't believe I've ever seen anyone do that.

I'll have to ask my buddy at TiVo about it--I think that he worked on it a bit (early board bring-up, I think).

Just curious--why do you edit URL tags out of quotes? I don't believe I've ever seen anyone do that.

The editing is a force of habit. I frequent this other board (unrelated to cable or any electronic stuff) and the mods have a thing about excessive quoting where you can only quote no more than 2 lines of text, so I started doing it on other boards, making it easier for the readers to get to my point, without having to read a lot of quoted text above my post.

Jack

Mike,

One thing that I heard was that Comcast with their integrated Tivo IPG has been a colossal nightmare, reminiscent of the earlier days of Navigator. Comcast subs should just ask for a box with the regular guide.

Jack

My cousin and her husband live in a Comcast area. After 5 boxes with the Navigator ureee Tivo nightmare lol they switched back to the regular guide and lost most of their problems. She says they will try Tivo Comcast again in a year after the bugs are worked out..Talking to her most of the problems sounded like Navigator 3 years ago.

The editing is a force of habit. I frequent this other board (unrelated to cable or any electronic stuff) and the mods have a thing about excessive quoting where you can only quote no more than 2 lines of text, so I started doing it on other boards, making it easier for the readers to get to my point, without having to read a lot of quoted text above my post.It's not your quoting a subset of a post that I was referring to--I almost never quote whole posts myself. I was talking about your editing out the tag pairs. I had a couple of places in the sentences that you quoted where I gave links to other pages, where you took out those tags; things like "(see this)" where "this" was a link. You took out the links--that's what was unique. Someone reading the quote couldn't find out what I was referring to. Just wondering why you'd go to the trouble to do that.

Missed recordings have all been CBS and FOX, which most definitely are not SDV.

I have to agree that this must be an infrastructure issue in Charlotte only. My Samsung missed 3 CBS shows last week here in Charlotte.

I am on my second Samsung box, and I'm very close to heading back to the 8300HDC box, since I never had an issue with that setup.

I have to agree that this must be an infrastructure issue in Charlotte only. My Samsung missed 3 CBS shows last week here in Charlotte.

I am on my second Samsung box, and I'm very close to heading back to the 8300HDC box, since I never had an issue with that setup.

Wow...so it definitely must be the odn version you guys are on in NC...i have yet to have any missed recording.

The problem with the resolution reverting from 1080i to 720p seems to have stopped.

However the new problem is that sometimes the analog tuner on my sammy box becomes unresponsive and all i get is a black screen on analog channels. After a while the box will simply reboot itself if i leave it on the analog channel. The digital channels will still be operational. This has been happening once every week for the past 4 weeks.

Wow...so it definitely must be the odn version you guys are on in NC...i have yet to have any missed recording.

The problem with the resolution reverting from 1080i to 720p seems to have stopped.

However the new problem is that sometimes the analog tuner on my sammy box becomes unresponsive and all i get is a black screen on analog channels. After a while the box will simply reboot itself if i leave it on the analog channel. The digital channels will still be operational. This has been happening once every week for the past 4 weeks.

Or a guide data issue or a combination of the two. Definitely appears to not be a Samsung problem.

Strangely enough, I have not had any 720p reversion issues either since I did a factory reset last weekend.

Very few of the SD channels here are still pure analog, and I hardly ever watch those that are, so I have not seen this happen. I have had a few black/frozen screens on digital channels. You can change channels and the audio and banner changes but the frozen/black screen remains. Cycling the box's power button fixes this.

i have a 8300 HDC with mystro.

when i turn my HDMI connected TV off i get that :
"you TV does not allow display of this program through the DVI input source"
on my other TV connection.

i think its from the HDMI handshaking that has stopped.

any way around this ?

will the 8300 HD box do the same ?


Yes it's a handshake issue, and yes it will happen with the 8300 HD.

Just press exit on the remote and ignore it. Or never turn the TV off first.

I'm not sure what annoys me more. The fact that it happens or the fact that the software still has not been updated to reference HDMI.

HDMI has been a pain mainly due to HDCP. I've had numerous installs where I had to revert to component cables in order to get the resolution to switch properly. If the HDCP was done away with, this wouldn't be an issue. HDMI is a great idea that was poorly implemented. The better thing to do would have been to encode content like game companies so the display does the actual decoding and there is no need for the devices to communicate with each other.

ben i thought you might want to know but i noticed a time warner commercial today and it sprouted some type of navigator with text looking very different from sara does this mean anything or just some corporate game there doing with us central ny subs? :eek:

ben i thought you might want to know but i noticed a time warner commercial today and it sprouted some type of navigator with text looking very different from sara does this mean anything or just some corporate game there doing with us central ny subs? :eek:

Unless it specifically contains some type of a "coming soon" announcement, it most likely is just a "one-size-fits-all" corporate commercial. Doesn't mean you won't wake up tomorrow 'gatored, but the appearance of a commercial showing a non-SARA screen shot probably has no specific meaning to your system.:(

i know time warner is afraid that fios is coming around ...the techie iwas in discussion with was saying how they will be getting all these innovations by summers end at time warner ...right out of left field he started discussing fios saying that time warner has to keep on there toes. Started to think he was working for fios. He to said navigator was coming very soon ....he didn't commit to a date ...typical but he assured great things will be happening in the central ny market! :)

i know time warner is afraid that fios is coming around ...the techie iwas in discussion with was saying how they will be getting all these innovations by summers end at time warner ...right out of left field he started discussing fios saying that time warner has to keep on there toes. Started to think he was working for fios. He to said navigator was coming very soon ....he didn't commit to a date ...typical but he assured great things will be happening in the central ny market! :)

Now that's a better indicator than the commercial!

seriously or are you kidding?:)seems to me the carolinas run a tighter ship ...right on the ball!

... I have not had any 720p reversion issues either since I did a factory reset last weekend.

Spoke too soon... was back to its old tricks last night... outputting 720p for NCIS even though the status screen on the box said 1080i was the current output.

Sounds about like when i'm watching tv and all of sudden out of nowhere my receiver pops up info description without me touching the remote.Me and my exorcismed receiver...i call it ghosting when it does it .

Well, I'd love to get my hands on a Navigator installed receiver to test for them. I have no idea if they have begun internal testing here or not. The employees and techs will get them way before we will ever see it. The techs got to demo Multi-Room DVR via SARA here in Rome, but it ended up scrapped because it had too many issue to deploy. I know, I know ... given what Lincoln went through I was thinking the same thing: How bad could the issues possibly be?

I wish they would allow customers to test as well as employees to gain a real world amount of feedback.

i was told they were testing right before i moved about a month ago. I asked if they knew how the testing was going . One techie told me there have been no problems to her knowledge.I tell them that too all the time i to would be willing to test market one for them to no end. I was told they will be testing for between 30 to 90 days i would think they are leaning towards a decision fairly soon being it's been nearly 30 since i found out about the testing.I see they added a few more premium hd channels last night ...god we have to die for hd right now... but i would trade a few channels back for the best digital navigator available!

Ben I thought you might want to know but I noticed a time warner commercial today and it sprouted some type of Navigator with text looking very different from Sara does this mean anything or just some corporate game there doing with us Central NY subs? :eek:

Did their commercial just promote stuff like "All The Best" or deals for new subs? Or did they specifically say what new items were coming? In looking around the Net, I keep reading a rumor that June 1st is the beginning of the Navigator launch for SARA systems in New York. Who knows what the roll out will be? However, I have a feeling that within a 1-4 month time frame, depending on area, you'll have it. By fall at the latest.

Jack

WEll, they still haven't sent out any notices with billing or made mention of it on the website. I hope they have the courtesy to give us a 30 day heads up so I can make sure I catch up on my stored recordings.

i was told they were testing right before i moved about a month ago. I asked if they knew how the testing was going . One techie told me there have been no problems to her knowledge.I tell them that too all the time i to would be willing to test market one for them to no end. I was told they will be testing for between 30 to 90 days i would think they are leaning towards a decision fairly soon being it's been nearly 30 since i found out about the testing.I see they added a few more premium hd channels last night ...god we have to die for hd right now... but i would trade a few channels back for the best digital navigator available!

Cool that you got more HD channels! We only have about 50 in my market. What did they add?

Jack

i believe it was on demand stuff in the commercial but i thought it was funny with navigator text in tact! could be nothing or could be very soon ! it had my juices flowing lol! :cool:

Here is the current complete list of HD for our division:

398 Movies on Demand HD

751 HBO East HD

752 HBO 2 East HD

753 HBO Signature East HD

754 HBO Family East HD

763 Cinemax HD East

764 More Max East HD

765 ThrillerMAX East HD

766 ActionMAX East HD

773 Showtime High Definition

774 Showtime Too East HD

775 Showtime Showcase HD

776 Showtime Extreme HD

781 The Movie Channel HD

782 TMC Xtra HD

785 Starz HD East

786 Starz Comedy HD

787 Starz Kids and Family HD

788 Starz Edge HD

791 MGM HD

793 HD Net

794 HDNET Movies

795 Universal HD

796 AMC HD

797 Independent Film Channel

798 The Tennis Channel HD

799 HD Showcase

800 HBO East High Definition

801 Showtime High Definition

802 MSG HD

803 Versus HD

804 NHL HD

805 The Golf Channel HD

806 ESPN News HD

807 MLB Network HD

808 SportsNet NY HD

809 YES Network HD

810 ESPN-HD

811 ESPN2 High Definition

812 ESPNU HD

814 Big Ten HD

815 CBS College Sports HD

816 Palladia

817 A&E High Definition

818 History in HD

819 Discovery Channel HD

820 HD Theater

821 TNT HD

822 TBS in HD

823 Fox News Channel HD

824 CNN HD

825 TLC HD

826 HGTV HD

827 Food Network HD

828 Bravo HD

829 National Geographic HD

830 Planet Green HD

831 Animal Planet HD

832 Science Channel HD

833 Crime & Investigation Network HD

834 Fox Business Network HD

835 CNBC HD+

837 Travel Channel HD

838 BIO HD

839 LMNHD

840 Disney HD

841 ABC Family HD

842 Disney XD High Definition

844 Cartoon Network HD

845 USA HD

846 Sci Fi HD

847 FX HD

848 E! HD

849 SPEED HD

850 WCNY-DT

851 WCNY Encore

852 WCNY Create

853 WCNYHD

855 WTVH-5HD

863 WSTM-3HD

868 WSYT-HD (FOX, Syracuse)

877 My 43 WNYS-HD (Syracuse, My Network TV)

881 NY1 HD

889 WSYR-9HD

890 WSYR 9.2

896 Style HD

897 Fuse HD

898 G4 HD

899 The Weather Channel HD

900 QVC HD

901 We TV HD

1300 Events iN Demand HD

1305 Adult On Demand HD

752 hbo2h..753 hbosh 753..hbofhd 754 ..mmax 764...tmaxhd 765...action max 766...might of missed a few others! noticed these last night when i got back from rome ny.now if they would add spike hd and monsters hd i would be delirious! ben u get my network ?

seriously or are you kidding?:)seems to me the carolinas run a tighter ship ...right on the ball!

Seriously... I never kid.:D

Its generally been pretty good here, but recent issues with the Sammies with no corrective action (like at least bringing us to the latest released version of ODN) leaves me wondering at least a little.

752 hbo2h..753 hbosh 753..hbofhd 754 ..mmax 764...tmaxhd 765...action max 766...might of missed a few others! noticed these last night when i got back from rome ny.now if they would add spike hd and monsters hd i would be delirious! ben u get my network ?


Holy crap! What an awesome HD line-up! That might be even more than Dish! We should all copy this information and send it to our local TWC offices. Kudos to TWC-NYC and this area for such a large HD lineup!

Jack

Jack, we are not in the NYC area. That lineup I listed is for the Syracuse DMA.

Must be nice. We're still scraping along here in Cary, NC with a pretty pitiful HD channel lineup...

Must be nice. We're still scraping along here in Cary, NC with a pretty pitiful HD channel lineup...

I was under the impression that all of NC had fairly similar HD lineups. Speaking for Charlotte, I will grant that it would be very nice to have the full complement of premium multicasts available in HD. Beyond that, we are not missing too many of what Central NY has.

Not counting local broadcast (we have every HD available OTA on cable except one SC ETV) and regional sports networks (we do have FoxSports Carolinas - what little of it is actually programming and not color bars), the only HD channels they have that we don't are:

NHL HD
Fox News Channel HD
Crime & Investigation Network HD
Fox Business Network HD
Cartoon Network HD
E! HD
Style HD
Fuse HD
G4 HD
The Weather Channel HD
QVC HD
We TV HD
I don't know about you, but I'm not really missing anything there all that much. I wouldn't really call what we have "pitiful".

Getting a version of Navigator that actually works with my Samsung DVR is a much bigger priority to me than getting any of those channels added to our lineup.

Uh guys, there's a whole thread dedicated to TW HD lineup. Maybe we should get back on topic.

Holy crap! What an awesome HD line-up! That might be even more than Dish! We should all copy this information and send it to our local TWC offices. Kudos to TWC-NYC and this area for such a large HD lineup!

Jack

I think that is what we are going to have in NE Ohio by the end of the year. The plan was for at least 5 channels to be added a month, although it is usually around 7 channels. Plus, the next batch after next week are scheduled for June 15, which means the channels might start coming twice a month once the initial bugs are worked out with SDV.

A TWC person has said there should be close to 100 channels by 2010!! :D:D:D

And this is after we only had 10 channels until two months ago! We're currently at 35 and that will jump to over 40 next week.

Uh guys, there's a whole thread dedicated to TW HD lineup. Maybe we should get back on topic.

Can anyone link to it for us? Thanks!

Jack

Can anyone link to it for us? Thanks!

Jackhttp://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16500043#post16500043

I hope that the new version of ODN contains some 3090 fixes. It does fix the 3270 bugs but if it fixes the 3090 ones then it would be awesome.

Maybe TWC San Diego actually wants working equipment. They've delayed the Samsung boxes due to issues. I hear they are testing a Motorola box in the Desert Cities area.

I hope that the new version of ODN contains some 3090 fixes. It does fix the 3270 bugs but if it fixes the 3090 ones then it would be awesome.

The 3090 seems to be in extremely limited distribution and I have yet to hear about a single 3270 in the field, so it seems curious you are saying bugs in undeloyed boxes may or may not be applicable to the few boxes that are in the field.

The 3090 seems to be in extremely limited distribution and I have yet to hear about a single 3270 in the field, so it seems curious you are saying bugs in undeloyed boxes may or may not be applicable to the few boxes that are in the field.

Yep it might be true. The box is newer but shares a few characteristics from the 3090. It's black and said to be newer than the 3090. San Diego is going to be the first division to get it along with a new ODN version. There is also a 3260 box which doesn't have the DVR feature. The 3260 is definitely newer than the 3050. Thats from what my source tells me. TWC San Diego won't be deploying these older boxes so they will be using the newer ones.

The 3270's that TWC San Diego will be using a 320 GB HDD.

Which also means, we won't be seeing any MDN updates anymore.

I think MDN will still be supported for at least a year or 2. There are still a bunch of people who have legacy boxes and it will be very expensive to get of them. TWC signed a deal with a company to provide Interactive EBIF apps for MDN so the legacy boxes can have interactive features just like ODN. ODN will eventually become the primary development platform though. Maybe that has already been started.

I was just saying that TWC San Diego is deploying the new Samsung 32xx boxes not the older 30xx ones.

I think MDN will still be supported for at least a year or 2. There are still a bunch of people who have legacy boxes and it will be very expensive to get of them. TWC signed a deal with a company to provide Interactive EBIF apps for MDN so the legacy boxes can have interactive features just like ODN. ODN will eventually become the primary development platform though. Maybe that has already been started.

I was just saying that TWC San Diego is deploying the new Samsung 32xx boxes not the older 30xx ones.

I think it will be another 2-4 years before MDN stops getting updated. I agree with the reasoning above, there are two many legacy MDN boxes out there that support this version of OS, and portions of NYC who don't even have Navigator yet, are getting MDN on all legacy boxes. I like the signed deal with TWC and EBIF. At least give MDN subs Keyword Search and Manual Recording and I will be happy with MDN. And don't forget about external E-drive support which is much better on MDN than OCAP. This provides strong support for MDN to stick around for awhile, and it needs to do that.

Jack

EBIF might just work out. MDN is a good platform but for some reason my 3250HD has problems.

I think it will be another 2-4 years before MDN stops getting updated. I agree with the reasoning above, there are two many legacy MDN boxes out there that support this version of OS, and portions of NYC who don't even have Navigator yet, are getting MDN on all legacy boxes. I like the signed deal with TWC and EBIF. At least give MDN subs Keyword Search and Manual Recording and I will be happy with MDN. And don't forget about external E-drive support which is much better on MDN than OCAP. This provides strong support for MDN to stick around for awhile, and it needs to do that.There's support and then there's support. You might get bug fixes and a few new features like keyword search and manual recording, but there's just no way that they can add the sort of stuff they'll be able to add to ODN, off the shelf, in run-anywhere Java for the OCAP profile. I don't know how close they are to the memory wall right now, but they can't be very far from it. Remember, everything they do has to run on all of the legacy boxes, in no more than 32 MB, possibly less. I guess we'll see what this EBIF stuff let's them do, but I'm doubting that it'll be anything too fancy.

As for external drive support, I can't believe that they give half a damn about that. Until they can figure out some way to make money from it (like turning it off unless you lease a drive from them), I can't see them ever officially supporting it. Supporting it on arbitrary drives purchased and connected by users sounds like a really expensive and bad idea--if they do support it, they'll have to make it work and there are myriad ways that some cobbled-together drive and enclosure could fail to work with the box, or make some other feature of the system fail to work. It's a maintenance nightmare.

TiVo has external drive support, but on the newest units (HD, HD XL) they only support the use of a single external drive--Western Digital's 500GB My DVR Expander. There's a hack to get other drives to work (by opening the case, voiding the warranty), but TiVo would frown on that, should you come to them for help with a non-working drive. Since people figured out a software hack for connecting arbitrary drives to the S3 before they added official support, the firmware still allows any drive to connect to the original Series3, but if you call them up for help, they'll only help if you have a supported drive attached.

I'll quote the discussion from the Cleveland Ohio TWC thread:



And kinda on this topic: Have you ever seen any recording problems with the SDV channels? I've noticed on some channels, mostly TLC, when I record two shows back to back the second show is a partial recording. It never happens on non-SDV channels. I've had it happen twice on UHD and almost every day on TLC. The TLC recordings were around 6-7 AM, so I thought it might have something to do with them 'working' on the channels.


Actually, that you mention it I do. I have the 'HD Videos' slot on Palladia set for a series recording and they have two back to back sometimes from 3AM-6AM and 6AM-9AM. the 6-9 slot only seems to record for maybe 10-15 seconds or so and stop. Happens regularly, but not every time. No particular pattern that I can tell.

YESS!!! That's exactly what happens!! On Monday or Tuesday I recorded the 6 and 7 AM airings of Clean Sweep on TLCHD. The 6AM episode recorded flawlessly. The 7AM episode Said "Record Length: 1 Min". When I started the show, it was on for a few seconds followed by the blue screen "Save, Delete, Restart". It recorded for less than one minute!!

Today(Friday) I recorded Trading Spaces and Clean Sweep. Trading Spaces worked fine. Clean Sweep recorded for 15 minutes and that was it.

The last two weeks I recorded A Minute With Stan Hooper on UHD. Both times the first episode was fine, the second episode cut off after 15 minutes.

One time I made myself wake up at 7AM to "observe" a recording. I came into the room at 7:01 and the record light was on. I turned on the TV + DVR and tuned to the channel, the record light turned itself off. Even though the light went off when I flipped the channel at 7:03, the entry in the DVR list still said "1 Min run time".

Really pissed me off how unreliable it is. On a box that is not even one month old yet. It also never misses a recording on a non-SDV channel or some other SDV channels.

I wonder if this is an ODN problem...

For the past few days the GUI on the SA8300HD with ESATA drive has been very slow. I rebooted but that made no difference. My SA8300HDC with no eSATA drive is for the most part fine...

...
As for external drive support, I can't believe that they give half a damn about that. Until they can figure out some way to make money from it (like turning it off unless you lease a drive from them), I can't see them ever officially supporting it. Supporting it on arbitrary drives purchased and connected by users sounds like a really expensive and bad idea--if they do support it, they'll have to make it work and there are myriad ways that some cobbled-together drive and enclosure could fail to work with the box, or make some other feature of the system fail to work. It's a maintenance nightmare.

TiVo has external drive support, but on the newest units (HD, HD XL) they only support the use of a single external drive--Western Digital's 500GB My DVR Expander. There's a hack to get other drives to work (by opening the case, voiding the warranty), but TiVo would frown on that, should you come to them for help with a non-working drive. Since people figured out a software hack for connecting arbitrary drives to the S3 before they added official support, the firmware still allows any drive to connect to the original Series3, but if you call them up for help, they'll only help if you have a supported drive attached.

Lack of external drive support is a competitive disadvantage vs satelite, especially considering that the built in drives are worth ~20 HD hrs; satelite built in drives are good for ~50 HD hrs, so they lose big there, if you ask me.

As for supporting any drive whatsoever, that may be too much to ask, but they can use either (in descending order of preference):
Moxi model ("any DVR-Ready eSATA", whatever that means, is supported), Tivo model (enter in some kind of deal with one of the drive manufacturers to officially support their drive, other drives may or may not work), or "enhanced TW model" (we guarantee nothing, but we try hard to make sure external drives work, and no new version is released unless confirmed to work with our test external drives). The "current TW model" (we could not care less about whether external drives work or not) is pathetic, unless their goal is to force people to buy Tivo or Moxi.

I still plan on buying a Tivo or Moxi as soon as we get Tru2Way support. TW deployed DVR's (even with Navigator) will always be far behind anything else on the market. If they really wanted to make waves they contract out to Moxi to deploy a set top based off their hardware simply because it would likely be cheaper than Tivo.

Actually, TW and other cableco's DO use Moxi equipment in certain markets. Sadly it isn't as widely used or advertised as it should be.

I'd swap out for one in a hot second if I knew they retained all the big features (networking, optical drive for cd audio and dvd's, mp3 playback and pictures, etc..) and I could actually pick one up. Sadly...

Actually TWC wants companies to make better STB's than them.

Actually, TW and other cableco's DO use Moxi equipment in certain markets. Sadly it isn't as widely used or advertised as it should be.I knew that they use Digeo's Moxi IPG in some markets on Moto boxes, but I wasn't aware that Moxi was selling a box for cable provider lease.

I knew that they use Digeo's Moxi IPG in some markets on Moto boxes, but I wasn't aware that Moxi was selling a box for cable provider lease.

TWC has used Moxi boxes in some of the ex Adelphia areas. The Moxi boxes were made by Motorola but they were pretty darn expensive. TWC isn't supporting them no more. The Moxi's only had a 80 GB HDD but there was a 160 GB one and it has more storage of course. The best part is that it had a USB port and you could plug in an external drive for even more storage. Nowadays Moxi has released the 3012 which has a bigger drive and now has a BCM cpu. Not the Intel based CPU.

Oh great, just what we need---another crappy company that thinks it can make cable boxes. Stick to cell phones...

And TWC, FIX YOUR FIRST BOXES BEFORE TRYING DIFFERENT ONES!!!

I tried recordings on Discovery HD, Bravo HD and Anizal Planet HD today, all times I recorded two hour shows back to back, the second recording was a partial! This never happens on non-SDV channels, so it must be somehow related to SDV and ODN.

Oh great, just what we need---another crappy company that thinks it can make cable boxes. Stick to cell phones...

Just like seeing the Cisco name attached to (long established cable equipment vendor) Scientific-Atlanta products, Motorola's name has found its way onto General Instrument (Jerrold) equipment. GI/Jerrold is the granddaddy of cable equipment vendors and hardly a newcomer to the STB business.

I still plan on buying a Tivo or Moxi as soon as we get Tru2Way support. TW deployed DVR's (even with Navigator) will always be far behind anything else on the market. If they really wanted to make waves they contract out to Moxi to deploy a set top based off their hardware simply because it would likely be cheaper than Tivo.

I too am tempted to jump on this when the time comes, but remain apprehensive. I can just see trying to call TW with a problem and them telling me it is my box and there is nothing they can do about it. At least with a TW DVR they have no way out of fixing the problem, even if they have to replace my DVR. Being in the middle of a Tru2Way DVR vendor and TW does not appeal to me.

I too am tempted to jump on this when the time comes, but remain apprehensive. I can just see trying to call TW with a problem and them telling me it is my box and there is nothing they can do about it. At least with a TW DVR they have no way out of fixing the problem, even if they have to replace my DVR. Being in the middle of a Tru2Way DVR vendor and TW does not appeal to me.

Valid point and I agree, but TWC needs to do something. If we get a stable version of Navigator here that supports eSATA then fine. Unless they drop a box on us that has a minimum 500GB drive then I could live without eSATA. There really is no reason to not be using 500GB drives as they can be had for about $50-60 which would probably be cheaper buying them in bulk.

Oh great, just what we need---another crappy company that thinks it can make cable boxes. Stick to cell phones...You talkin' bout Motorola??? They've been making cable STBs for quite some while. People talk about the Scientific Atlanta (now Cisco)/Motorola "duopoly" in the US cable STB market. There were a few others with some small amount of success (Pioneer, Pace), but SA and Moto have pretty much carved up the market between them. I think that Comcast, the largest cable provider in the country, primarily leases Motorola boxes, and TWC and Cox are using both. Nationally, Motorola may actually have a larger share of the market.

As hdtvfan2005 said, the former Adelphia system of N. San Diego County used to use Digeo's Moxi IPG on some Motorola boxes; after Adelphia's scandalous fall, that system has been assimilated by TWC San Diego, who aren't continuing the use of Moxi (I believe that they're using Macrovision/Gemstar's i-Guide (http://www.macrovision.com/products/service_providers/ipg_so/i_guide.htm?link_id=rightnav) product). That north county system is based on a Moto network, with Moto boxes deployed, completely incompatible with Navigator. I think that about one third of all TWC systems are using Motorola, making it very difficult for them to get Navigator up and running in those areas. At one point they'd contracted a company to get an environment running on those legacy Moto boxes in which to run ODN, but they abandoned that effort (see this (http://www.cable360.net/ct/news/ctreports/18505.html) about the start and this (http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=146699&site=cdn) about the end of that). I think that they're basically going to have to replace all of their legacy boxes in those systems en masse, or develop a way to run i-Guide (or whatever else they may be running) concurrently on old boxes in a network with OCAP Navigator on new boxes. Maybe they're porting MDN to Moto--who knows?

Thanks for the reply, Jack. My whole point is that I am sure there are 1000's of us out there with this type of box. I would expect a company to make everyone as inconvenienced as possible if they roll out something new. Especially, when it is slower and the look and feel has degraded. Why add more customer complaints by also having it reboot or cause other problems?

You know it's not as bad as you think to swap it. I had the very same box with MDN and it was terrible. I just moved my 3250HD from downstairs to my room and never looked back. Though I did get a DVR for the downstairs rom. I would definitely consider getting a new HD box with ODN. Even the 4250HDC with ODN is a huge improvement. The HD boxes have much more memory and a better CPU so they can handle Navigator.

You know it's not as bad as you think to swap it. I had the very same box with MDN and it was terrible. I just moved my 3250HD from downstairs to my room and never looked back. Though I did get a DVR for the downstairs rom. I would definitely consider getting a new HD box with ODN. Even the 4250HDC with ODN is a huge improvement. The HD boxes have much more memory and a better CPU so they can handle Navigator.

That's part of the reason why I hoped this is the last MDN update. TWC needs to stop punishing their customers with junk products. I've heard from two TWC CSRs that admit their boxes are junk. And both cited "the new software they are using"(aka MDN).

You talkin' bout Motorola??? They've been making cable STBs for quite some while. People talk about the Scientific Atlanta (now Cisco)/Motorola "duopoly" in the US cable STB market. There were a few others with some small amount of success (Pioneer, Pace), but SA and Moto have pretty much carved up the market between them. I think that Comcast, the largest cable provider in the country, primarily leases Motorola boxes, and TWC and Cox are using both. Nationally, Motorola may actually have a larger share of the market.

I've never seen a Motorola cable STB. The only thing I've ever heard about them is they were used by Comcast, and TWC in NE Ohio swapped out all those Moto boxes for SA boxes running ODN when they began deploying SDV in former Comcast areas. About the only other thing I know about them is they run the "I Guide", which looks like an ugly POS I'd never want on my TV.

Also, there is Passport DCT---which is supposed to run on Moto boxes, but we've seen TWC(and other cable) attitudes towards Passport. :(

When Cisco took over Scientific Atlanta the QC went down hill. Now they just make them as fast as they can with little to no QC.

That's part of the reason why I hoped this is the last MDN update. TWC needs to stop punishing their customers with junk products. I've heard from two TWC CSRs that admit their boxes are junk. And both cited "the new software they are using"(aka MDN).

Truth is, Time Warner caters to the "common idiot" so to speak. I mean, just look at their commercials (http://www.wethinklikeyouthink.com/competitive_Q209/)? They tout the most minute feature as ground breaking technology. They act like their SARA based DVR is the best thing EVER! Instead of making a better product with features even a semi advanced user wants the launch websites touting Hi-Def-A-Vision, Polly 2.0, and The Snag-It-O-Matic.... *SIGH* :rolleyes:

BTW: Nick, what is so "EPIC FAIL" about SDV? It has to be your division or something because SDV here is AWSOME! We have close to 100 actual HD channels (not fluff filler PPV's) and they work great.

Truth is, Time Warner caters to the "common idiot" so to speak. I mean, just look at their commercials (http://www.wethinklikeyouthink.com/competitive_Q209/)? They tout the most minute feature as ground breaking technology. They act like their SARA based DVR is the best thing EVER! Instead of making a better product with features even a semi advanced user wants the launch websites touting Hi-Def-A-Vision, Polly 2.0, and The Snag-It-O-Matic.... *SIGH* :rolleyes:

BTW: Nick, what is so "EPIC FAIL" about SDV? It has to be your division or something because SDV here is AWESOME! We have close to 100 actual HD channels (not fluff filler PPV's) and they work great.


I agree with Ben,

Remember that us techno-geeks are a microcosm of the macrocosm of TWC's customers, representing perhaps 2%-5% of their total customer population. (And I am no techno genius, learning more from all of you on this board than you'll ever learn from me!) If TWC can make products that are good enough to be competitive, than they believe, for the most part, they have done their job. Big companies like TWC don't want the knowledgeable people questioning them about anything outside the box or deviating from the norm that is 95% of their population who want to know the basics and that's it. If TWC supports people with the basics "monkey see, monkey do" information given to their CSR's and independent contractors, they would rather appease the 95% who don't question because they don't know, and do what TWC, Comcast, Direct TV, or Dish tells them, (My contention is that big cooperations are mostly alike in this attitude.) rather than companies forcing employees having to deal with stuff outside the box, such as ex-drive support, or Tivo, or anything that does not relate to their Y2K technology.

Most (although not all) of the company can not deal with answering any questions that go above the basics, and TWC might think, well, why waste our time with a knowledgeable 5% of our customers, when 90-95% of our customers just want to know:

1.) How do I turn on my box?

2.) How do I use the guide to find shows?

3.) If I have a DVR, how do I record and play back a show? (And there are some people that can barley do that!)

When 95% don't care about EX-Drive support, changing output resolutions, some don't even know whether or not they are looking at a HD channel!

Average Uninformed Customer:

"Oh, yea I know that I am watching channel 5 (TWC's SD CBS station in my area.) 505 (Its HD channel) is the same thing, just a little clearer."

Therefore if this is the attitude of these big corporations populace and these companies can reduce as many people down to "just accept what we say." Uniformed customer knows and falsely assumes, "Well, TWC is a big company, so they must know what they are talking about."

If such a strong percent of general populations are that misinformed about the technology, a company like TWC is only going to do major upgrades if somehow their is strong competition IN THEIR NODES that offers a better product or more HD channels, something along the lines of more reliable technology. I wonder if this makes a difference concerning why some TWC divisions are better than others? Do the "better divisions" in terms of reliability and competence, have other competition in their area that forces TWC to be better in these areas? If there is a New York division with a Cablevision office competing with TWC in close proximity, this could explain why both companies may offer more HD and better customer support than areas with no competition.

Get the uninformed general population aware of the competition in an area where such exists. Maybe this is why many areas of New York with both TWC and Cablevisison have about 100 channels when we have about 50 here in Wisconsin. In areas with no competition, TWC can get away with being "just good enough" with 95% of its customers accepting what is given to them. That's the problem.

Jack

BTW: Nick, what is so "EPIC FAIL" about SDV? It has to be your division or something because SDV here is AWSOME! We have close to 100 actual HD channels (not fluff filler PPV's) and they work great.

The damn thing is just now working after over two months! From day one in my area, it has been a disaster. The new channels and ones converted to SDV did not work. Breaking up picture and sound on some of the channels, while others worked. I had three service calls and wiring replaced, which were useless because it was all the fault of the damn headend! And even after countless calls complaining about the "new HD channels" and "SDV" channels not working, it took TWO MONTHS to fix! I even mentioned SDV by name on the phone, which of course probably increased the hostility(as everything Ben and SatchMan wrote about TWC is 100% true). In reality, they probably hoped I would just watch the analog SD stations in stretchovision and **think** that is real HD. And when the real HD stations do not work, they'd probably just hope I'd be Eeyore about it.

Now, that is not the reason why I call SDV an "epic fail". My troubles alone are not enough to do that. The entire NE Ohio area has been a victim of SDV. Well, at least the areas where SDV is currently active. :rolleyes: You see, we are made up of three cable systems: Time Warner in Summit, Stark, Portage county, Adelphia in Cuyahoga, Geauga and northern parts by the lake. Plus there is Comcast mixed in throughout the area(which I never even knew Comcast was in Ohio!). Adelphia + Comcast + TWC all combined to become one big TWC Clusterf--k I like to call Crime Warner Cable. Even the original TWC areas had different lineups between counties plus the Adelphia areas were screwed up since Adelphia is another combination of even smaller cable companies out of the 1980s. There used to be Cablevision and other smaller independent companies. In the entire Adelphia area there has to be countless numbers of separate headends and different wiring systems. The existing TWC areas with Navigator all had SDV started around the same time since all these areas were on the same page: Passport converted to Navigator. Throughout those areas some had problems(like mine) and others had no problems at all.

Then there's the Adelphia areas, still on SARA. Which it makes me happy they didn't decide to change that to Navigator before SDV, as we would be even more delayed than we are now. The Adelphia areas were supposed to have SDV by April 9 (as a mailing to Tivo customers said). Some areas had it in mid-April. Most did not. The new HD channels that were supposed to be added in late April were delayed two weeks into May since so many areas were without SDV. When the channels finally came in May, some areas still did not get them. These areas still do not have SDV. And there's another unofficial rumor date that it will happen on 5/27.

Back to the areas with SDV. When the new channels came in early May, they did not work in most areas. Instead, we were treated to 7 new channels of black screen, usually with audio only. It even got the attention of a local media blog who wrote about it and shared the story of one customer who had a box stuck on constant reboot cycle after SDV started. It took almost a week to get the bugs worked out of the new channels.

Now we are supposed to be getting new channels this Tuesday, and according to the TWC website, they had the channels listed as "On or after May 26, 2009 in some areas". So it's anyone's guess when these channels will show up and they might not be showing up in some areas at all.

If such a strong percent of general populations are that misinformed about the technology, a company like TWC is only going to do major upgrades if somehow their is strong competition IN THEIR NODES that offers a better product or more HD channels, something along the lines of more reliable technology. I wonder if this makes a difference concerning why some TWC divisions are better than others? Do the "better divisions" in terms of reliability and competence, have other competition in their area that forces TWC to be better in these areas? If there is a New York division with a Cablevision office competing with TWC in close proximity, this could explain why both companies may offer more HD and better customer support than areas with no competition.

Get the uninformed general population aware of the competition in an area where such exists. Maybe this is why many areas of New York with both TWC and Cablevisison have about 100 channels when we have about 50 here in Wisconsin. In areas with no competition, TWC can get away with being "just good enough" with 95% of its customers accepting what is given to them. That's the problem.

Jack

The only REAL competition to TWC in NE Ohio is AT&T Uverse/Advanced TV. And even AT&T is only available in certain areas. Some areas are serviced by Verizon phone and used to be GTE... it could be another page long article about the history of phone service in NE Ohio. Basically, not all areas are serviced by AT&T/SBC/Ohio Bell and they have enough of a stranglehold on the market that FIOS will probably never be available here. The only other options are dreadful satellite or OTA. So customer satisfaction is last priority for TWC in Ohio, as they own almost the entire state, save for a few smaller companies (Wide Open West, Buckeye Cable) and small municipal run systems. And I'll bet the municipal run systems suck even worse than TWC...

NYC is deploying the SMT-H3090 at about 1 per day. It will be available in larger quantities in about a month or 2.

SA8300-HD (HDMI) with Navigator:

Hey all,

Refresh my memory--I have my TWC-remote set to turn off the TV and DVR cable box at the same time. When I turned on the TV, it said....."mode not supported" and I had to reboot the cable box to get the cable box working again. After turning the TV off and turning it on a few minutes later it was fine.

I know that this issue has happened to other people before, what is the trick with HDMI cable and the boxes that prevents this? I have a family member who is anything but tech savvy and I know that they were the last to watch TV. I think the issue occurs with HDMI if the box is sometimes turned off when the TV is on and I know that other people reported this issue on this forum. What is the issue?

Jack

I recently recevied a new box from Time Warner with the Mystro software on it. On my old box I was able to hold select and then hit the down arrow to see the diagnostics. I was able to see signal levels and the whole 9 yards. That was when I had the 8300HD. Now I have the 8300HDC and when I hold select and hit down, I receive an 11 page diagnostic window but there is no sign of signal strength on any of these screens. Does anyone know how to access the signal levels on the 8300HDC? Again I have Time Warner in Cincinnati with Mystro. Thank You!

Tony

Truth is, Time Warner caters to the "common idiot" so to speak. I mean, just look at their commercials (http://www.wethinklikeyouthink.com/competitive_Q209/)? They tout the most minute feature as ground breaking technology.

My favorite is the "Sir Charge" commercials... where they tout the "phone companies" adding all sorts of fees to boost what you pay over what they say the service coasts. Indeed, I was always annoyed that Verizon added something like 3 or 4 "fees" to my bill.

Sol I sign up for TWC's phone service and guess what? 11 )ELEVEN) fees get added to my bill. They range (in total) from about 17 to about 12 bucks each month. FAR more than what Verizon ever charged me.

So it ain't about touting, it's about lying.

I recently recevied a new box from Time Warner with the Mystro software on it. On my old box I was able to hold select and then hit the down arrow to see the diagnostics. I was able to see signal levels and the whole 9 yards. That was when I had the 8300HD. Now I have the 8300HDC and when I hold select and hit down, I receive an 11 page diagnostic window but there is no sign of signal strength on any of these screens. Does anyone know how to access the signal levels on the 8300HDC? Again I have Time Warner in Cincinnati with Mystro. Thank You!

Tony

Press Vol+ and Info on the box itself and you get access to the SA diagnostic menu. That menu definitely shows signal information.

My favorite is the "Sir Charge" commercials... where they tout the "phone companies" adding all sorts of fees to boost what you pay over what they say the service coasts. Indeed, I was always annoyed that Verizon added something like 3 or 4 "fees" to my bill.

Sol I sign up for TWC's phone service and guess what? 11 )ELEVEN) fees get added to my bill. They range (in total) from about 17 to about 12 bucks each month. FAR more than what Verizon ever charged me.

So it ain't about touting, it's about lying.

What were they itemized for? Amazingly, when we got Digital Phone. (With their All the Best promotion) the bill just says something like Digital Phone nationwide, I think it's $30. Someone else pays the bill so I am not sure, but I do know that it's one charge. They DO however, charge extra for Directory Assistance ($1.99 per request) and something like $3.95/month for optional Voice Mail.

I think each Phone service has it's own set rates: If you just want to make local calls, I think my area is $20, than if you want unlimited long distance it's $30, and than for their International Calling to over 100 countries it's $40 a month. You should call and ask about those charges for sure.

Jack

Time Warner Phone? LOL!! LMMFAO!!!

I've seen how reliable they are with the TV. They ain't touching MY PHONE!! ;)

Time Warner Phone? LOL!! LMMFAO!!!

I've seen how reliable they are with the TV. They ain't touching MY PHONE!! ;)

No belive it or not their phone service works very well. It's more like Roadrunner than Navigator or sdv.

No believe it or not their phone service works very well. It's more like Roadrunner than Navigator or sdv.

I second CW's opinion about TWC Phone (and Road Runner, at least for my area.) service. It is excellent. When you compare it to all the criticisms of Navigator and the cable TV part of TWC, it's hard to believe that it is the same company. Yes, I would even recommend TWC Digital Phone and also TWC Road Runner.

Jack

i would agree with that about phone and internet tooo! I was told by a service field worker that the phone was terrible ...good rep he gives the company huh ,typical.... i swear by it ! I would give it a two big thumbs up ! :D

Time Warner Phone? LOL!! LMMFAO!!!

I've seen how reliable they are with the TV. They ain't touching MY PHONE!! ;)

Have had it since 10/08... it's been pretty reliable so far.

BTW, one thing I found out is that one's RR can go down but that won't affect the phone service. Far as I can tell, one might need to totally lose the entire connection for the phone service to be down. However, this IS TWC, so a backup plan needs to be in place (for me it'as WiFi to a neighbor and Skype).

No, the fees on my bill are fees, not additional phone services. They are listed under "Taxes and Fees." Just checked last month... there are nine of them, totaling about $10.43. The point was that they spent money to advertise a lie.

Does that neighbor have Internet with Verizon or someone besides TWC-RR?

v/r,
C-F

I believe the reason why the phone service is so good, is that it is actually run by Sprint on the backend. I remember when I first got it installed and the tech had to call in to his tech support to activate it, he had them on speakerphone, and they answered "Sprint/Nextel, can I have your tech ID" or something to that effect.

A quick google search before I left the office here couldn't confirm it, but maybe someone else with more time can dive in deeper.

I believe the reason why the phone service is so good, is that it is actually run by Sprint on the backend. I remember when I first got it installed and the tech had to call in to his tech support to activate it, he had them on speakerphone, and they answered "Sprint/Nextel, can I have your tech ID" or something to that effect.

A quick google search before I left the office here couldn't confirm it, but maybe someone else with more time can dive in deeper.

Back in 2003 when TW entered the phone biz they had agreements with Sprint and MCI to provice the ties from the TW network to the PSTN. The local plant is all TW, though.

In some locations TW also dabbled with reselling Sprint cellular service as well. I don't know about elsewhere, but it never really got off the ground here in NC. I think they got the furthest in the Greensboro market and then pulled the plug.

I know this is a often asked question. Does anyone have any information when the SARA areas are going to start receiveing Navigator. It has been 3 1/2 years since we in Greensboro have received any SARA feature upgrades and the old reliable Sara is starting to suck as other ipg's flame by it. Any info would be appreciated.

Does that neighbor have Internet with Verizon or someone besides TWC-RR?

v/r,
C-F

Nah, FIOS is rumored to be in my nabe third quarter 09. I think their basic IP package is 20/5, as opposed to TWC's 10/768k.

Back in 2003 when TW entered the phone biz they had agreements with Sprint and MCI to provice the ties from the TW network to the PSTN. The local plant is all TW, though.

In some locations TW also dabbled with reselling Sprint cellular service as well. I don't know about elsewhere, but it never really got off the ground here in NC. I think they got the furthest in the Greensboro market and then pulled the plug.

Indeed going forward, a landline only service may have much less value... I know actual people who are dropping their landlines in favor of cell only.

That being said, I must say I'm mostly pleased with TWCs phone service. One of the things I fretted about was that it was dependent on their IP infrastructure... in that I have had numerous lost connections, twice in the past three years being 4+ days worth each time. A few times I got them to actually confirm my suspicions... the IP issues traced to their authenticating servers, not any loss of connection. Anyway, the phone service runs completely outside the IP connection.

Indeed going forward, a landline only service may have much less value... I know actual people who are dropping their landlines in favor of cell only.I personally haven't had a landline in the past four years. The last wired phone service that I did have was cable from TWC (for three or four years) and I was perfectly happy with it. I haven't used any Internet service other than cable in nearly a decade and have been very happy with that as well. (I have a set of Panasonic wireless phones in the house which bind to my cell phone by Bluetooth, so when I'm home it stays plugged in to a charger at a spot where service is best).

Regardless of the fact that it has to be backed by some real terrestrial service--true of cell phone service as well--reliability of the service is totally dependent upon reliability of the cable network, so credit is due to Time Warner for that. That has nothing to do with the reliability of their cable television service, the hardware leased to customer with which to access that service or the software running on that hardware, which are the source of so much frustration in this discussion.

I personally haven't had a landline in the past four years. The last wired phone service that I did have was cable from TWC (for three or four years) and I was perfectly happy with it. I haven't used any Internet service other than cable in nearly a decade and have been very happy with that as well. (I have a set of Panasonic wireless phones in the house which bind to my cell phone by Bluetooth, so when I'm home it stays plugged in to a charger at a spot where service is best).

Regardless of the fact that it has to be backed by some real terrestrial service--true of cell phone service as well--reliability of the service is totally dependent upon reliability of the cable network, so credit is due to Time Warner for that. That has nothing to do with the reliability of their cable television service, the hardware leased to customer with which to access that service or the software running on that hardware, which are the source of so much frustration in this discussion.

Well, one of my long IP outages would have affected phone service as well... some idiot technician cut my wires without thinking to double check when he had a work order to disconnect a completely separate apartment. It took them 5 days to fix that frak-up.

Some have harder times dropping landlines... my sister lives a black away and has a Verizon tower 1/2 block away on her street. No issues. However, to get to that tower (my closest) I have to go through several buildings. Several neighbors tell me they can only get a reliable connection if they stand in front of a south facing window. Walk farther into the apartment (north) and it starts getting intermittent.

Some have harder times dropping landlines... my sister lives a black away and has a Verizon tower 1/2 block away on her street. No issues. However, to get to that tower (my closest) I have to go through several buildings. Several neighbors tell me they can only get a reliable connection if they stand in front of a south facing window. Walk farther into the apartment (north) and it starts getting intermittent.You have to find a mobile provider with decent service where you live; if there aren't any, then you're out of luck.

As I said before, I use a cordless phone system with a Bluetooth connection to mobile phones (this (http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-electronics/shop/Phones-Fax/Telephones/Bluetooth-Enabled-Systems/model.KX-TH1212B_11002_7000000000000005702)--I'm sure there are others). I leave the phone plugged into a charger in a location where it gets good service, within Bluetooth range of the cordless system's basestation. When a call comes in to the mobile, it rings on all of the cordless phone system's extensions and can be picked up on any. You can pick those extensions up and walk around without worrying about the mobile losing network connection. Calls can be made on the mobile from all of those extensions. The system can handle two mobile phones, and you can even simultaneously connect it to a landline (though it can only deal with one active call at a time). If I'm in range of the mobile, I can still use a BT headset with it as well. Works for me :).

What does TWC phone service have to do with Navigator?

Whoa thread police....take it easy. lol We'll get back on track dontcha worry.

I really don't think that was called for.

There, more PC, better? lol

does anyone that lives in greenwich village in nyc have FIOS being offered to them?? or does anyone know when to expect fios in the area

What does TWC phone service have to do with Navigator?

Well, it's a fact of life that discussions can at times kinda veer off a strict track. That why there are mods to gently guide it back. Still, most OT posts tend to impart useful information, so I'm not ready to get upset, my involvement this time notwithstanding.

does anyone that lives in greenwich village in nyc have FIOS being offered to them?? or does anyone know when to expect fios in the area

There is a Verizon FIOS NYC forum, you should go there (pretty it is available there, but many don't know because their building is throwing up road blocks to installation; I hear they have a storefront lover in the east village, search it out).

Book 'em Danno

I know how the two are related: When you call TWC to complain about their Navigator boxes and SDV system, the **** CSR tries to sell you their phone service. They really have some nerve trying to sell their services to someone who is calling to complain about one of their other services. I have very little trust in TWC.

What does TWC phone service have to do with Navigator?

Well, duh you can get caller ID on your navigator box! :p

Well, duh you can get caller ID on your navigator box! :p

A vaild question deserves an answer that shows respect for the other member.

The 3270 isn't a made up box. I found a PDF file from the CTAM group and it their 2009 product guide. It mentions the 3270 as SMT-3270 though I think the real model number is SMT-H3270.

http://www.ctam.com/tru2way/ProductGuide2009.pdf

Page 13 mentions it. Of course it says that Samsung makes the best cable boxes for the NFL. It also mentions the 3090. I really do think San Diego is the launch division of the 3270 since no other division has plans to deploy it or maybe they do just under some secrecy agreements.

Great once we get rid of Sara and have Navigator I can get excited about a new box.Sara is reliable and very fast but sucks in so many other ways.

Hi, i'm new here, but I just want to clarify a few things about the set-tops that you may not have realized, one in particular being their extra-sensitivity to signal levels. I noticed that many of you have mentioned that ODN tends to be slow. In the older releases, that was true. With the latest updates, many of those errors have been corrected. If you are still experiencing slowness when changing channels, or moving through the guide, that indicates a signal issue. These boxes (both MDN and ODN) rely heavily on the signal coming in through the cable to operate properly. If the signal is too weak, the box just doesn't run as quickly, especially when it's trying to tune channels. A weak signal also causes it to have errors (like "E-13") when it's booting up. During the boot process, it contacts servers at the headend to get boot information. If it gets no response, (or in some cases, if the request never makes it out), then it won't boot properly, or at all, depending on how severe the signal issue is. Signal can also be too high, which causes distortion, and has almost the same effect as a low signal level. These things will affect the way the program guide loads channel information, Video-On-Demand, pixilation and tiling, and certainly how DVRs record.

Incidentally, XAIT stands for eXtended Application Information Table, and is updated by the headend about every ten minutes. That's about as much as I can tell you about that, except that there was a flaw in the Scientific Atlanta box design that causes "AIT" to get stuck on the display during boot, and at other odd times.

As for ODN/MDN updates; newer versions and fixes are constantly being worked on, and whenever you call in with odd problems that you encounter, the rep is supposed to fill out a form and submit it, so that those problems get forwarded to the engineers. They collect this information, and they use it to create updates and patches for both MDN and ODN. They will usually test updates on employee equipment first, and then once they have received feedback, they will launch the update to the whole region in stages. Don't despair; more updates are to come, and things will continue to get better. Any rep who tells you otherwise is misinformed, which can happen. After all, how many times have you called in and been told one thing, and then spoken to someone else and been told something completely different? :-) They do their best, but they aren't always right. Quite a few of them *do* know what they are talking about though, and if they tell you not to swap your box, but to have a service call instead, listen to them, because they're most likely right. They have a tool they can use to measure signal level as long as the box is online, and can make informed suggestions as to resolutions.

I hope this information was helpful to all, though it may have been late coming.

-LULightTec

Hi, i'm new here, but I just want to clarify a few things about the set-tops that you may not have realized, one in particular being their extra-sensitivity to signal levels. I noticed that many of you have mentioned that ODN tends to be slow. In the older releases, that was true. With the latest updates, many of those errors have been corrected. If you are still experiencing slowness when changing channels, or moving through the guide, that indicates a signal issue. These boxes (both MDN and ODN) rely heavily on the signal coming in through the cable to operate properly. If the signal is too weak, the box just doesn't run as quickly, especially when it's trying to tune channels. A weak signal also causes it to have errors (like "E-13") when it's booting up. During the boot process, it contacts servers at the headend to get boot information. If it gets no response, (or in some cases, if the request never makes it out), then it won't boot properly, or at all, depending on how severe the signal issue is. Signal can also be too high, which causes distortion, and has almost the same effect as a low signal level. These things will affect the way the program guide loads channel information, Video-On-Demand, pixilation and tiling, and certainly how DVRs record.

Incidentally, XAIT stands for eXtended Application Information Table, and is updated by the headend about every ten minutes. That's about as much as I can tell you about that, except that there was a flaw in the Scientific Atlanta box design that causes "AIT" to get stuck on the display during boot, and at other odd times.

As for ODN/MDN updates; newer versions and fixes are constantly being worked on, and whenever you call in with odd problems that you encounter, the rep is supposed to fill out a form and submit it, so that those problems get forwarded to the engineers. They collect this information, and they use it to create updates and patches for both MDN and ODN. They will usually test updates on employee equipment first, and then once they have received feedback, they will launch the update to the whole region in stages. Don't despair; more updates are to come, and things will continue to get better. Any rep who tells you otherwise is misinformed, which can happen. After all, how many times have you called in and been told one thing, and then spoken to someone else and been told something completely different? :-) They do their best, but they aren't always right. Quite a few of them *do* know what they are talking about though, and if they tell you not to swap your box, but to have a service call instead, listen to them, because they're most likely right. They have a tool they can use to measure signal level as long as the box is online, and can make informed suggestions as to resolutions.

I hope this information was helpful to all, though it may have been late coming.

-LULightTec

WOW!!!

Thanks for that information! It was very helpful. On the Navigator updates, I really hope we get Keyword Search and Manual Recording. It would help a lot. I still have the SA-8300 MDN DVR, but have a question about the ODN boxes. How many of the new ODN boxes are being produced and what are their model numbers?

Jack

WOW!!!

Thanks for that information! It was very helpful. On the Navigator updates, I really hope we get Keyword Search and Manual Recording. It would help a lot. I still have the SA-8300 MDN DVR, but have a question about the ODN boxes. How many of the new ODN boxes are being produced and what are their model numbers?

Jack
I will find out for you, but it will take me some time. :-)

I just got a new Samsung 3090 in Southern Manhattan replacing an 8300HD box I've had for years. Problem is that it looks to be running MDN (Mystro screen at startup, version # 2.4.9.2). Shouldn't the new boxes be running ODN now? Is there any way to get ODN software loaded short of swapping out the box? Took a lot of calls to TWC and a truck roll to get this one so I have little faith that they'll bring the right box if I asked.

I do still have another 8300HD running Passport version 2.6.002 on my primary TV and it's going strong for now but I'm not sure what happens if/when TWC pushes out a systemwide update.

It should be running ODN 3.1.10_11. Check the diagnostic menu by pressing select+down on the remote. Samsung boxes can't run MDN.

i'm thinking he's seeing a version number that for some reason shows up during boot on a grey screen. my says v 2.4.9. dont know what it is or what it means. i dont see those numbers anywhere in the diagnostics.
but yeah, check the diagnostic menu. first page, 3rd line from bottom, ODN version number:

I just got a new Samsung 3090 in Southern Manhattan replacing an 8300HD box I've had for years. Problem is that it looks to be running MDN (Mystro screen at startup, version # 2.4.9.2). Shouldn't the new boxes be running ODN now? Is there any way to get ODN software loaded short of swapping out the box? Took a lot of calls to TWC and a truck roll to get this one so I have little faith that they'll bring the right box if I asked.

I do still have another 8300HD running Passport version 2.6.002 on my primary TV and it's going strong for now but I'm not sure what happens if/when TWC pushes out a system-wide update.

Well,

This is one for the books! To echo the post above, I don't think Samsung boxes can run MDN, but how is your box behaving otherwise? If everything else is working right in terms of speed and functionality, and especially since you have had a hassle getting the box with all the calls to TWC, keep it, if all is OK. Could this be some kind of special New York area configuration that we don't know about? What software did you have running on your previous box? Navigator, Passport, or SARA? I am sure when TWC sends the next update hit to your area, a.k.a node, your box should get whatever it needs. But for now, I wouldn't "fix" what isn't broken.


Jack

...
As for ODN/MDN updates; newer versions and fixes are constantly being worked on, and whenever you call in with odd problems that you encounter, the rep is supposed to fill out a form and submit it, so that those problems get forwarded to the engineers. They collect this information, and they use it to create updates and patches for both MDN and ODN. ...
-LULightTec

Thanks a lot, I am really glad somebody is finally allowed to say something.

Any chance you can (in the future) post a list of bug fixes/enhancements added when a new version is being released?

Any idea about the time frame for the new release? Not looking for a precise week, just whether it is going to be before the fall TV season starts.

The two (newly introduced in 3.*) ODN bugs that have been mentioned here a lot are 1) broken eSATA support and 2) (HDMI specific) Dolby Digital setting being reset to "HDMI" every time the display device on the other side is turned off or switched to another input. Do you know if they are on the list to be fixed? I am especially curious to know if anybody is looking into 1), since it is not officially supported, but the fact that it used to work was extremely welcome, and come new TV season, lack of storage will be considered a major disadvantage over the competition by most of the people with external drives that are just collecting dust now.

I think the new release of ODN is coming sooner rather than later. Our division will probably getting it this summer to fix some bugs. The Samsung 3260 and 3270 bugs. It's mainly the 3270 that has the bugs.

It should be running ODN 3.1.10_11. Check the diagnostic menu by pressing select+down on the remote. Samsung boxes can't run MDN.

Interesting....I'm seeing the diagnostic screens that look almost exactly like these ones:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16324711#post16324711

Looking at the "Software version" which on my box is 2.4.9.2 and has a Jan 2009 "Build Date". I don't see any reference to ODN anywhere and it's definitely the black Samsung 3090 box. That and the boot screen says Mystro and has the L-# countdown series when it boots. From what I've been reading, I'm pretty sure that's MDN but I could be wrong...

Well,

This is one for the books! To echo the post above, I don't think Samsung boxes can run MDN, but how is your box behaving otherwise? If everything else is working right in terms of speed and functionality, and especially since you have had a hassle getting the box with all the calls to TWC, keep it, if all is OK. Could this be some kind of special New York area configuration that we don't know about? What software did you have running on your previous box? Navigator, Passport, or SARA? I am sure when TWC sends the next update hit to your area, a.k.a node, your box should get whatever it needs. But for now, I wouldn't "fix" what isn't broken.


Jack
The previous box (and the other box in my apartment) were both running Passport. The only thing I can think of is that there's some issue with having two different boxes on the same account?

I'm definitely keeping the box to see what happens with it over the next few weeks. I'm just glad I only switched one box so I still have a normally functioning good ol' 8300HD on my main TV. If anyone has any other ideas about the MDN vs. ODN issue or anything I should test out (e.g. any ODN features, etc), I'd love to hear.

Interesting....I'm seeing the diagnostic screens that look almost exactly like these ones:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16324711#post16324711

Looking at the "Software version" which on my box is 2.4.9.2 and has a Jan 2009 "Build Date". I don't see any reference to ODN anywhere and it's definitely the black Samsung 3090 box. That and the boot screen says Mystro and has the L-# countdown series when it boots. From what I've been reading, I'm pretty sure that's MDN but I could be wrong...


The previous box (and the other box in my apartment) were both running Passport. The only thing I can think of is that there's some issue with having two different boxes on the same account?

I'm definitely keeping the box to see what happens with it over the next few weeks. I'm just glad I only switched one box so I still have a normally functioning good ol' 8300HD on my main TV. If anyone has any other ideas about the MDN vs. ODN issue or anything I should test out (e.g. any ODN features, etc), I'd love to hear.

The 2.4.9.x version is the Samsung software that runs underneath ODN. ODN says Mystro when it boots. The screenshots you showed are the Samsung internal diagnostics screens and are available when no version of Navigator at all is running on the box. I know because my 3090 is currently "in a mood" and is refusing to load ODN at all but I am still looking at those internal diagnostics screens.

You are running ODN on that box. It cannot run MDN.

Thats the system diagnostic menu. There should also be a channel that has diagnostic information. 2.4.9.2 is probably the version number for the RTOS. The version should be at 3.1.0_11. All ODN boxes run the same version number so you should have 3.1.0_11. ODN runs on top of a middleware that runs on an RTOS like PowerKey or Linux in the case of the 3090. Hope this helps.

The 2.4.9.x version is the Samsung software that runs underneath ODN. ODN says Mystro when it boots. The screenshots you showed are the Samsung internal diagnostics screens and are available when no version of Navigator at all is running on the box. I know because my 3090 is currently "in a mood" and is refusing to load ODN at all but I am still looking at those internal diagnostics screens.

You are running ODN on that box. It cannot run MDN.

Uh oh! Does that mean you can't use the guide, DVR, digital channels, etc? I remember my early 8300HDC box used to do that. Sometimes it would say "E-13" on the front or it would come on minus all the UI features except for a generic channel number display for the analog only channels.

I think thats an ODN problem with it. It will probably get fixed in the next version or maybe 3.1.1_3 could solve that. The Samsung 3270 had a bug where the stretch-o-vision guide won't load and it took a few presses of the guide button before it actually shows up. Saw some videos about TWC's testing facility and they really do test the crap outta these boxes. Yet they give the employees buggy boxes such as the 3090 and the 3270 to test. The 3090's that have been given to customers are also buggy. The 3270 still shares the 3090's stretch-o-vision guide characteristic.

Uh oh! Does that mean you can't use the guide, DVR, digital channels, etc? I remember my early 8300HDC box used to do that. Sometimes it would say "E-13" on the front or it would come on minus all the UI features except for a generic channel number display for the analog only channels.

Yeah... it goes through its initial Samsung bootup process, then when it should start the Mystro loading screens it just goes black with OCAP on the screen. After about 2 mins of black it will work with only an extremely basic Samsung native GUI. But the CableCard is authorized.. I can access all the correct channels, including HBO & SHO... just no SDV. But no guide, no banner, NO ACCESS TO RECORDINGS... no Navigator functions at all.

I have the last two hours of 24 and the last three episodes of Fringe on it that I havent had a chance to watch yet, otherwise I'd be tradng it in. Even MY patience are gone, lol.

I think thats an ODN problem with it. It will probably get fixed in the next version or maybe 3.1.1_3 could solve that. The Samsung 3270 had a bug where the stretch-o-vision guide won't load and it took a few presses of the guide button before it actually shows up. Saw some videos about TWC's testing facility and they really do test the crap outta these boxes. Yet they give the employees buggy boxes such as the 3090 and the 3270 to test. The 3090's that have been given to customers are also buggy. The 3270 still shares the 3090's stretch-o-vision guide characteristic.

Could be... at least I was holding out for a new version hoping it might fix it, especially since they are giving out 160GB versions here now. But I haven't seen any other reports of this behavior from anyone else, even here in Charlotte with everyone still on 3.1.0_11, so I just may have a bad box, too.

Yeah... it goes through its initial Samsung bootup process, then when it should start the Mystro loading screens it just goes black with OCAP on the screen. After about 2 mins of black it will work with only an extremely basic Samsung native GUI. But the CableCard is authorized.. I can access all the correct channels, including HBO & SHO... just no SDV. But no guide, no banner, NO ACCESS TO RECORDINGS... no Navigator functions at all.

I have the last two hours of 24 and the last three episodes of Fringe on it that I havent had a chance to watch yet, otherwise I'd be tradng it in. Even MY patience are gone, lol.

I take it the new STB smell has worn off? I remember how proud and happy you were about the "new Sammy". I'm sorry to hear it turned out to be so bad. I think I'll keep my "spaceship looking" 8240HDC.;);)

After you can watch those recordings, are you really getting rid of it? Wow.

Could be... at least I was holding out for a new version hoping it might fix it, especially since they are giving out 160GB versions here now. But I haven't seen any other reports of this behavior from anyone else, even here in Charlotte with everyone still on 3.1.0_11, so I just may have a bad box, too.

Hey before you trade that box in...did you ever get E-SATA working on it?

A member in the milwaukeehdtv forum who also has a 3090 box got E-SATA working mysteriously.

Here's the link... http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/forums/showthread.php?p=52083#post52083

And here are their words verbatim if you can't access the site.

" 05-27-2009, 02:24 PM
barreaud
Registered User
Post esata for TWC Samsung DVR
I plugged in a Western Digital 500gb "My Book" and fiddled with the diagnostics screen. Nothing worked in the first couple tries but a few hours later and a few reboots I suddenly got the "do you want to format the hard drive" command off the samsung box. I did and was good to go. Power outages mean I have to reset the external hard drive but other than that... very happy. FINALLY, can watch my shows in peace and not have to worry about running out of space.

Thanks for this thread's help. Would never have managed it without you.

-Danica "

I take it the new STB smell has worn off? I remember how proud and happy you were about the "new Sammy". I'm sorry to hear it turned out to be so bad. I think I'll keep my "spaceship looking" 8240HDC.;);)

After you can watch those recordings, are you really getting rid of it? Wow.

I really don't have a choice, it seems. I have not been able to get it to boot at all this time. It's dead. Recordings gone. Still would prefer another one rather than an SA.

I just got a new Samsung 3090 in Southern Manhattan replacing an 8300HD box I've had for years. Problem is that it looks to be running MDN (Mystro screen at startup, version # 2.4.9.2). Shouldn't the new boxes be running ODN now? Is there any way to get ODN software loaded short of swapping out the box? Took a lot of calls to TWC and a truck roll to get this one so I have little faith that they'll bring the right box if I asked.

I do still have another 8300HD running Passport version 2.6.002 on my primary TV and it's going strong for now but I'm not sure what happens if/when TWC pushes out a systemwide update.


where did you get the samsung 3090 from. Did a twc tech person drop it off or did you pick it up at the 23rd street store. If it is the second one, do they have more in stock.

How do you think the 3090 is so far compared to the 8300. Any problems that you notice already.

i'm thinking he's seeing a version number that for some reason shows up during boot on a grey screen. my says v 2.4.9. dont know what it is or what it means. i dont see those numbers anywhere in the diagnostics.
but yeah, check the diagnostic menu. first page, 3rd line from bottom, ODN version number:

The 2.4.9.x version is the Samsung software that runs underneath ODN.

thanks.

I really don't have a choice, it seems. I have not been able to get it to boot at all this time. It's dead. Recordings gone. Still would prefer another one rather than an SA.

I'm thinking you got an unusually bad box. I've not had any boot problems. and as you said nobody else has reported boot problems either.
i was just at my local TW office about an hour ago and they had an unusually high number of 8300's laying around. i didn't see any Sammie's. you might want to call some of the many kiosk's in Charlotte first just to make sure they have another Sammy. and to ask if they have any 320GB left.

I'm thinking you got an unusually bad box. I've not had any boot problems. and as you said nobody else has reported boot problems either.
i was just at my local TW office about an hour ago and they had an unusually high number of 8300's laying around. i didn't see any Sammie's. you might want to call some of the many kiosk's in Charlotte first just to make sure they have another Sammy. and to ask if they have any 320GB left.

I have no choice but to get what I can get tonight and it will probably be at the main Morehead St. office - I can get there before 6 on the way home from work. The mall kiosks are all out of the way for me but the Morehead office is just a few blocks from my office in downtown Charlotte.

I'm still on Sara sadly but I heard from a friend who knows a source in the C####### office. Sorry do not want to get anyone in trouble. But from what I hear Keyword search is on the Navigator front burner.They are trying to make it better than Passports. Sadly still on SARA and will not experience it anytime soon I bet. Just passing along what I heard.

Yeah... it goes through its initial Samsung bootup process, then when it should start the Mystro loading screens it just goes black with OCAP on the screen. After about 2 mins of black it will work with only an extremely basic Samsung native GUI. But the CableCard is authorized.. I can access all the correct channels, including HBO & SHO... just no SDV. But no guide, no banner, NO ACCESS TO RECORDINGS... no Navigator functions at all.

I have the last two hours of 24 and the last three episodes of Fringe on it that I havent had a chance to watch yet, otherwise I'd be tradng it in. Even MY patience are gone, lol.

I think if you see "OCAP" on a screen, it has to be ODN.

I think thats an ODN problem with it. It will probably get fixed in the next version or maybe 3.1.1_3 could solve that..

Some are reporting they have 3.1.1_3. It would seem they would get everyone on _3 before they go to a next version... then again, this IS TWC!

I think if you see "OCAP" on a screen, it has to be ODN.

"OCAP" does not appear on screen... its on the box display. It shows "OCAP" the whole time the Samsung boot progress screen is showing. During that time you get a brief "Provisioning OOB Headend" popup which apparently pertains to the authorization of the CableCard. This is all happening before the box ever even attempts to load Navigator. When Navigator fails to load, the screen just goes black instead of starting the Mystro load countdown. About a minute after the screen goes black, you can hit a basic function key on the remote (e.g., channel up) and the box will begin functioning as a plain jane tuner/decoder using its own internal GUI. There is a basic quide (channel list only) and a limited menu (Cable Card Diags mostly), and the Info button gets you a plain white channel number/station ID in the upper right corner. No access to anything that remotely smells of Navigator... no "real" guide, no info banners, no settings menu, no DVR functionality, no access to SDV channels, no aspect ratio control (box runs with severe overscan, even on HD content), and no access to DVR functions.

When Navigator DOES boot normally, the box display will switch to "APP" for a second, then start counting down the Mystro load sequence (same as the on-screen display). As it stands now, the box is not making any attempt whatsoever to load Navigator. It gets to the 80% mark on the Samsung loading bar and then just goes black when it should be starting the Navigator load.

Some are reporting they have 3.1.1_3. It would seem they would get everyone on _3 before they go to a next version... then again, this IS TWC!

I believe that everyone with Samsungs is on 3.1.1_3 EXCEPT Charlotte... we're still on 3.1.0_11. One other Samsung site was also on 0_11 but has since updated to 1_3.

I'm still on Sara sadly but I heard from a friend who knows a source in the C####### office. Sorry do not want to get anyone in trouble. But from what I hear Keyword search is on the Navigator front burner.They are trying to make it better than Passports. Sadly still on SARA and will not experience it anytime soon I bet. Just passing along what I heard.

In your market, do they have 8300HDCs running SARA? Yes they can run 2 different IPGs in the same market, we have Passport and ODN running for close to a year now.

In your market, do they have 8300HDCs running SARA? Yes they can run 2 different IPGs in the same market, we have Passport and ODN running for close to a year now.

Yes... Woody's Greensboro system has HDC's running SARA... my daughter has one there.

Yes... Woody's Greensboro system has HDC's running SARA... my daughter has one there.

Also have 8240hdc's I have one as well as a 8300hd. Both on SARA sadly.

The big bummer is that I can get absolutely no information about Navigator from my local division. they do not even answer the E mails I sent to them asking about Navigator.Talking to the CSR's is a joke. The division here used to give out any information they had now a iron curtain has surrounded the info gap. I E mailed the division President and got I'll get back to you reply 45 days ago. So zip no information here.And to cap it all off we just lost hd net and hd net movie. GRRRRRRRR

In your market, do they have 8300HDCs running SARA? Yes they can run 2 different IPGs in the same market, we have Passport and ODN running for close to a year now.They can run two different IPGs on the same compatible network. I'm fairly certain that SARA and Navigator don't talk quite the same language back to the system. I think that it's the major sticking point in them getting Navigator up and running in SARA systems.

We had Passport here, and from the point that they started deploying them back in '07, all of the HDC boxes were running ODN. I think that it was about a year later that they started pushing MDN to the legacy boxes.

The big bummer is that I can get absolutely no information about Navigator from my local division. they do not even answer the E mails I sent to them asking about Navigator.Talking to the CSR's is a joke. The division here used to give out any information they had now a iron curtain has surrounded the info gap. I E mailed the division President and got I'll get back to you reply 45 days ago. So zip no information here.And to cap it all off we just lost hd net and hd net movie. GRRRRRRRR

I hope everyone with Navigator gets Keyword Search before the end of the summer. That would be cool. CW, I'll bet you'll have Navigator by September.

Jack

I really don't have a choice, it seems. I have not been able to get it to boot at all this time. It's dead. Recordings gone. Still would prefer another one rather than an SA.

I'd take an SA box, for now. If/when that "rumoured ODN Update" is released and we hear reports that it is stable, then I'd try another one.

I know the feeling of not having a properly functioning DVR. That's how the SA OCAP boxes were at the beginning. And now two years later ODN is far superior to the 'legacy boxes'. I just hope it takes less time with the Sammie.

You're more patient and brave than I am with this. I remember when I finally had enough of my first 8300HDC in 2007. It was after two months of similar problems: booting without DVR functions, having analog channels only, booting in brick mode, not recording, rebooting every day. When I called I could tell they were trying to stick it to me with that box. No way in hell I was going to have that. Instead of the service call they recommended, I returned it for whatever I could get that wasn't HDC. At that time I would rather have a 3100HD!

Now I have TWO HDC boxes that work fine. How times have changed... ;)

You know I think the Samsung boxes will get better over time. I saw a video on how TWC tests their products. They really do test them yet they bring out buggy boxes. I hope Charlotte can upgrade ODN to the latest or upcoming version that San Diego is going to be using. I hope the 3270 performs better but it has some interesting issues. Bob Barlow thinks people like you wouldn't notice them but I think we could prove him all wrong :).

There is a BIG difference between (blindly) following a step-by-step test procedure for each
and every pre-defined "test case" and actually using and logging problems over an
extended period of time....

It also takes extended commitment to identify, prioritize and FUND fixes....
Rather than calling it quits after a short test period....
If TWC was actually fixing software, there would be releases every couple months that actually
FIXED something, rather than simply adding new and seemingly (to TWC) important features....
I think TWC has TOO MANY programmers working on new features, leaving too few (less talented?) working on FIXES...

TWC San Diego says the 3270 isn't where they'd like it to be. I think it will get good enough to be deployed.

And now two years later ODN is far superior to the 'legacy boxes'.

I just don't get why people with ODN think it is superior to MDN. I have one 8300HD that was migrated from Passport Echo to MDN about a year ago and haven't had any issues other than a reboot every few months. I have had another 8300HD MDN box for about 9 months also with no issues.

jcalabria has had more issues in a few weeks than I have had on almost a combined 2 years of 8300HD MDN boxes.

I certainly don't love MDN, or the spaceship look of the 8300HD, but it has performed its core function of recording and playing programs quite well.

I just don't get why people with ODN think it is superior to MDN. I have one 8300HD that was migrated from Passport Echo to MDN about a year ago and haven't had any issues other than a reboot every few months. I have had another 8300HD MDN box for about 9 months also with no issues.

jcalabria has had more issues in a few weeks than I have had on almost a combined 2 years of 8300HD MDN boxes.

I certainly don't love MDN, or the spaceship look of the 8300HD, but it has performed its core function of recording and playing programs quite well.

I second that in support of the MDN. The box works great. I do get reboots about once a week, but everything works. The CC issue that I have was a problem with very old Coaxial cable, with HDMI and my HDTV, it works great!

MDN works better with E-SATA drive support and is consistently stable. I have not missed a recording in AT LEAST 6 months and the guide speed is very good. Sometimes there might be a half a second delay while loading data into like the 5th day, but you can hardly notice this. We have learned that MDN will still be supported for several years from the poster above who gave us some helpful information. If your box and model works well. Keep it and take care of it really well, because you don't know how well the next one may be, especially in the midst of the new buggy Samsungs.

Jack

I just don't get why people with ODN think it is superior to MDN. I have one 8300HD that was migrated from Passport Echo to MDN about a year ago and haven't had any issues other than a reboot every few months. I have had another 8300HD MDN box for about 9 months also with no issues.

jcalabria has had more issues in a few weeks than I have had on almost a combined 2 years of 8300HD MDN boxes.

I certainly don't love MDN, or the spaceship look of the 8300HD, but it has performed its core function of recording and playing programs quite well.

My situation with the Samsung is not an apples-apples comparison. I never had a bit of trouble with my 8300HDC. In an 8300HD vs HDC comparison, I would never choose the HD/MDN box. The differences aren't huge, but the ODN/HDC box would definitely be my choice.

where did you get the samsung 3090 from. Did a twc tech person drop it off or did you pick it up at the 23rd street store. If it is the second one, do they have more in stock.

How do you think the 3090 is so far compared to the 8300. Any problems that you notice already.

I haven't really had a chance to test it out too much yet. Just moved it out to my main tv so should get some time on it this week. A tech person brought it out though. I wasn't positive there were any in circulation so I didn't want to wait 2 hours on a Saturday just to have someone at 23rd Street decide to give me a hard time and stick me with another 8300 box...

Initial reaction: Feels a little laggy but nothing major so far (e.g. entering channels in the guide don't change quickly enough. Takes a while after you enter, say "201" before the guide actually switches to that channel.

Also, the search function kind of blows. Besides the missing keyword search, you can't start a search by starting on the show you want in the guide. On my Passport box, if you highlight a random episode "Law and Order" and then go to the search, the list of shows automatically starts with "Law and Order" and you can refine the search from there (e.g. find "Law and Order: SVU"). On this box, every time you go to search, the list starts at the top and you have to type in the title you want from scratch again. Annoying.

Oh, I have the 160GB box.

Will post anything else I notice...

It should be running ODN 3.1.10_11. Check the diagnostic menu by pressing select+down on the remote. Samsung boxes can't run MDN.

Is there any way to check the diagnostic directly from the box? I use Info + Vol Up to get to the Samsung screens but I still can't get to the screen that shows the ODN version. Maybe I'm not timing the remote presses right...?

The ODN diagnostic screen is accessed via remote. You press select and press down when a message light comes on. Then it should say dIAG or something like that. It should then give you the 14 page ODN diag screen. Not as feature packed as the hardware ones.

Vol+ and Info is usually done on the STB's front panel.

Hope this helps.

Initial reaction: Feels a little laggy but nothing major so far (e.g. entering channels in the guide don't change quickly enough. Takes a while after you enter, say "201" before the guide actually switches to that channel.

Those Navigator boxes use four-digit input, even for the lower channels. Instead of typing 201, try typing 0201, and it should have happen much faster.

Those Navigator boxes use four-digit input, even for the lower channels. Instead of typing 201, try typing 0201, and it should have happen much faster.

...or end the channel entry with the [Select] key.

The ODN diagnostic screen is accessed via remote. You press select and press down when a message light comes on. Then it should say dIAG or something like that. It should then give you the 14 page ODN diag screen. Not as feature packed as the hardware ones.

Vol+ and Info is usually done on the STB's front panel.

Hope this helps.

Correct, except that there is no Mail/Message light on the Samsung... for the software diags you just have to hold the [Select] key for a 10 count (or so), then release and press [Down].

Same thing with the hardware diags... you have to "guess" how long to hold the [Vol+][Info] combination before you release it to enter the diagnostics page.

After numerous unsuccessful attempts to get the box to reboot into Navigator this weekend (and having had intermittent problems with the same thing in the past), I finally conceded defeat and swapped the box out at the TW office yesterday. Lost my recordings (unwatched 24 and Fringe season finales :mad::mad:) AND ended up with a 160GB version :(:( as a replacement, though it was brand new.

Got home, hooked it up and :eek: WTF... the new box booted directly into native Samsung mode instead of Navigator, just like the first one!!! :confused::confused::confused:

Having two boxes do that without some common external cause was unlikely, so I tried a few things that I hadn't before (but should have :o). In the end, I determined that the box refused to boot Navigator while connected via HDMI to my Onkyo 876 receiver. With the HDMI cable disconnected, or with the AVR powered off, or with the HDMI run straight to the Samsung :rolleyes: TV, the box would boot Navigator every time.

Seems to me that whatever is connected to the HDMI port should never prevent it from booting its application software. That is WAY beyond a typical HDMI handshake problem.

Correct, except that there is no Mail/Message light on the Samsung... for the software diags you just have to hold the [Select] key for a 10 count (or so), then release and press [Down].

Same thing with the hardware diags... you have to "guess" how long to hold the [Vol+][Info] combination before you release it to enter the diagnostics page.

Finally! Thanks! Yeah, it's ODN 3.1.0_11 as everyone expected. Oh well.

I'm definitely still partial to the Passport box but will keep giving this one a workout.

...AND ended up with a 160GB version :(:( as a replacement, though it was brand new.

I am in your boat as well. I am wishing I had just stuck it out with my 320Gb box in hopes that software updates would fix my issues, because I still have the same issues with my current 160Gb box. Though, things seem to be getting better.

Although, when I returned my box I was not aware of the fact that 160Gb boxes were out there. And it now appears that the 160Gb boxes are the majority, as most people ending up with the Samsung boxes seem to be getting this version. Too bad, because a larger hard drive was one of the huge selling points of this new box to me.

...it's ODN 3.1.0_11

I see that Charlotte isn't the only system behind the times.

Dumb question here....

I have an 8300 from TWC San Diego and my kids have used the remote to set up timed recordings.

When I'm channel surfing, sometimes I get an on-screen display that says "To Start over Press *Sel*".

I can't for the life of me figure out how to turn that darn display off!

Any tips?

Much appreciated,
Erik Tracy

Dumb question here....

I have an 8300 from TWC San Diego and my kids have used the remote to set up timed recordings.

When I'm channel surfing, sometimes I get an on-screen display that says "To Start over Press *Sel*".

I can't for the life of me figure out how to turn that darn display off!

Any tips?

Much appreciated,
Erik Tracy

Those messages have nothing to do with the timer recordings the kids have set up. They are the interface to TWC's "Start Over" service, which acts as a sort of remote DVR. If you press the [Select] button, it will start playback (from the beginning) at the headend of an On-Demand copy of the show you joined in progress... allowing you to see the show from the beginning. TWC has setup Start Over on several networks in most systems, and the popup will appear any time you tune to a channel for which Start Over has been enabled.

There is a setting in the box menus that would appear to disable pop-up messages such as those, but so far has been reported as ineffective. The pop-up will automatically go away a few seconds after it appears with no user intervention required.

My situation with the Samsung is not an apples-apples comparison. I never had a bit of trouble with my 8300HDC. In an 8300HD vs HDC comparison, I would never choose the HD/MDN box. The differences aren't huge, but the ODN/HDC box would definitely be my choice.
the HDC box has lag when changing channels that the HD box doesnt. For a newer box you would expect a faster processor so this doesnt happen.

you can watch a taped show on the HD and return to the channel you were watching and go back in time. cant do that on the HDC.

so i dont get what your talking about that the HDC 8300 box is better.

ODN does let you disable the popups but not MDN.

Those messages have nothing to do with the timer recordings the kids have set up. They are the interface to TWC's "Start Over" service, which acts as a sort of remote DVR. If you press the [Select] button, it will start playback (from the beginning) at the headend of an On-Demand copy of the show you joined in progress... allowing you to see the show from the beginning. TWC has setup Start Over on several networks in most systems, and the popup will appear any time you tune to a channel for which Start Over has been enabled.

There is a setting in the box menus that would appear to disable pop-up messages such as those, but so far has been reported as ineffective. The pop-up will automatically go away a few seconds after it appears with no user intervention required.


I tried the setup change for disabling 'pop ups' but they already showed being disabled - yet I still get that on-screen message.

It only started recently in the last week and only on a few selected channels - not all.

It's frickin' annoying!

Thanks for the reply and info.

I tried the setup change for disabling 'pop ups' but they already showed being disabled - yet I still get that on-screen message.

It only started recently in the last week and only on a few selected channels - not all.

It's frickin' annoying!

Thanks for the reply and info.

They must have just added the start over service to those channels. In my system all of the start over channels are SDs that I never watch, so I hardly ever see the popups.

ODN does let you disable the popups but not MDN.

ODN has a setting for it but it doesn't actually do anything (at least not in 3.1.0_11).

They must have just added the start over service to those channels. In my system all of the start over channels or SDs that I bever watch, so I never see the popups.

Our division has the popups even on HD channels.

I just don't get why people with ODN think it is superior to MDN. I have one 8300HD that was migrated from Passport Echo to MDN about a year ago and haven't had any issues other than a reboot every few months. I have had another 8300HD MDN box for about 9 months also with no issues.

jcalabria has had more issues in a few weeks than I have had on almost a combined 2 years of 8300HD MDN boxes.

I certainly don't love MDN, or the spaceship look of the 8300HD, but it has performed its core function of recording and playing programs quite well.

External drive with a MDN 8300HD???

the HDC box has lag when changing channels that the HD box doesnt. For a newer box you would expect a faster processor so this doesnt happen.

you can watch a taped show on the HD and return to the channel you were watching and go back in time. cant do that on the HDC.

so i dont get what your talking about that the HDC 8300 box is better.

I never experienced any lag whatsoever in my 8300HDC. What version of ODN have you experienced on the HDC? I understand that ODN 2.x WAS slow, but ODN 3.1 is not.

I never would have even thought to try the other... but if I wanted it to keep recording that channel all I would have to do is hit the record button before I switched to playback of the pre-recorded show. I suspect that the behavior of the newer ODN software is quite by design... allowing the release of SDV channels that are not being watched. If you really want to record the second channel the capability is still there for you. It makes absolutely no sense to continue buffering a channel that is not needed in an SDV environment.

Oh, I have the 160GB box.

Gotta say that makes the Samsung FAR less interesting to me.

I think my choice might be to stay with my 8300HD when it moves to MDN as it seems that combo is a better choice for using an external HDD.

The ODN diagnostic screen is accessed via remote. You press select and press down when a message light comes on. Then it should say dIAG or something like that. It should then give you the 14 page ODN diag screen. Not as feature packed as the hardware ones.

Vol+ and Info is usually done on the STB's front panel.

Hope this helps.

Passport has a similar convoluted way to get to it's diagnostics. However it DOES have a simple channel selection (996 in my market) that gives you a single screen that list the IPG software and version.