Not that easy. If a scheduled recording is in the list Navigator will assume you are going to record the entire show and delete anything it needs to in order to accommodate future recordings down the line.

e.g. If you've reached 90% capacity (which is guaranteed to happen to me during the Fall schedule) and the box has four hour long episodes scheduled during the week, the moment you add something else to that list it will delete an existing recording to fit it in. The only way to avoid that is to remove something from the schedule list before that new event appears.

If that happens to be part of a series recording then that opens up a whole new world of problems since Nav will then attempt to record the next airing. Then you have multiple new entries appearing which could cause the box to delete other shows to make room. Even though you don't want to record them. The only way out is to delete the series recording until the next new episode appears.

You could get around it in Passport by scheduling a series recording to occur only on a specific day that the show airs.

IF I am correct does not Navigator have time slot recording also.Maybe not as good as passports but its available. WOODY

Not that easy. If a scheduled recording is in the list Navigator will assume you are going to record the entire show and delete anything it needs to in order to accommodate future recordings down the line.

e.g. If you've reached 90% capacity (which is guaranteed to happen to me during the Fall schedule) and the box has four hour long episodes scheduled during the week, the moment you add something else to that list it will delete an existing recording to fit it in. The only way to avoid that is to remove something from the schedule list before that new event appears.

If that happens to be part of a series recording then that opens up a whole new world of problems since Nav will then attempt to record the next airing. Then you have multiple new entries appearing which could cause the box to delete other shows to make room. Even though you don't want to record them. The only way out is to delete the series recording until the next new episode appears.

You could get around it in Passport by scheduling a series recording to occur only on a specific day that the show airs.

You can get around it in Navigator by marking the stuff as "Do Not Delete" (you can do it for each individual episode, or if you mark series as "Keep All Episodes", it is done for you). As a visual sign of that you'll see a green icon next to (existing or scheduled) recording. These are never deleted, so if something new comes up that will cause you to run out of space, it will not get recorded. Clumsy, I know, but a workaround nonetheless.

However, the problem here is not the way Navigator handles series recordings - it does it right - it is that the drives are too small, which cause you to use that workaround of cancelling scheduled recordings *that you want to watch* in the first place. That workaround, although may accomplish what you need, is a hack and not something that they should consider in their software development.

There are a lot of features that do not work right or are not implemented at all, no point in complaining about the one that actually works logically and correctly, for everyone but Riverside.

By the way, Riverside, box rebooting once on its own when there is no software update is not a good sign. Doing it several times in a couple of weeks is a sure sign that something is seriously wrong, either with the box or your signal or both. Have the signal checked and/or swap the box (now is a good time, as the fall season has not fully started yet), and forget about series stuff not working right every time - it does so for everybody else. Note that the box and signal being good enough for Passport does not mean they are good enough for Navigator, as it is more picky. Also, upgrade may have hosed your box.

You can get around it in Navigator by marking the stuff as "Do Not Delete" (you can do it for each individual episode, or if you mark series as "Keep All Episodes", it is done for you). As a visual sign of that you'll see a green icon next to (existing or scheduled) recording. These are never deleted, so if something new comes up that will cause you to run out of space, it will not get recorded. Clumsy, I know, but a workaround nonetheless.


Oh I know, I just don't want to save everything as do not delete recordings during the Fall season. Some will be spontaneous recordings, some will be last minute, some will be things I might only have passing interest in, some will be shows in progress etc.

When you start locking every recording you have to micromanage all of it - "how many shows will I have to delete to give enough room to have the next scheduled recording take place?"

The hard drive size is only one issue. It's just a simple flaw with series recording that if you cancel something before it airs, it's never canceled until the box runs out of episodes. You don't have much of a choice in that matter.

When you schedule a recording the box already tells you if it's a conflict. All it needs to do is give you an alternate time to record the episode when the conflict warning appears. That would solve the problem pretty easily. It shouldn't pick a random time for you later in the week at it's own behest, but you should be able to decide if you just don't want to record a particular episode that week without this hassle.

I agree with you that the OD sucks if you can't sit through the whole thing right then. After a pause mine goes back to main menu after about 5 minutes. What a pain because first off it goes to the previews they show on the main channel but since it's paused you get the screen saver showing with some non-sense blaring in the background, how stupid. Then as you say you're sent back to the main menu and for what? Why not have it just like recorded shows where if paused it stays paused and screen saver come on after a few minutes? The whole thing is really dumb and I can't understand the engineering behind it.
another missing item in Navigator is no longer showing the expire date for OD programming

one day the programs are there- the next they are gone- no idea when they are scheduled to go off OD

If the real NEW version didn't get recorded, find the next one and schedule to record it, right at the time the real first run is not recorded. Once it's on the schedule, it's immune to a memory clearing crash.

but... but... but... How is it to know that the next showing it finds is indeed the same new episode? Many of the cable series we are talking about intermix old episodes with repeat showings of the week's new episode. The fact is that only ONE of the multiple episodes shown during the week is in fact the new episode for that week. Labeling it as such is hardly "falsifying" data.

...
It's just a simple flaw with series recording that if you cancel something before it airs, it's never canceled until the box runs out of episodes. You don't have much of a choice in that matter.

When you schedule a recording the box already tells you if it's a conflict. All it needs to do is give you an alternate time to record the episode when the conflict warning appears. That would solve the problem pretty easily. It shouldn't pick a random time for you later in the week at it's own behest, but you should be able to decide if you just don't want to record a particular episode that week without this hassle.

That's where we disagree (I agree on the other parts I deleted from quote). I like it as is. If I cancel a recording, (which I almost never do), I want the box to find the next showing; I'd cancel a series if I don't care to watch it.
And I really, really like it finding other airings automatically and silently; that is my favorite Navigator feature by far.

That's where we disagree (I agree on the other parts I deleted from quote). I like it as is. If I cancel a recording, (which I almost never do), I want the box to find the next showing; I'd cancel a series if I don't care to watch it.
And I really, really like it finding other airings automatically and silently; that is my favorite Navigator feature by far.

And it could still do that. You just need a manual option.

If you cancel a recording before it airs all the box has to do is ask you if you want to reschedule the same show in the next available air slot and the problem is fixed. You say no and it waits until the next fresh episode rather than trying to record each instance of new.

Same with a conflict. Manually create a recording clash and it just has to ask if you want to reschedule one of them.

For passive conflict handling all it needs is a setting for conflict resolution. Automatic (as it is now) and do not reschedule.

Of course, that level of control is never going to happen.

My biggest complaint with the cable DVR is that there are only 2 tunners, therefore you can only record 2 shows at a time. It seems the networks try to put all the good shows on the same night, opposite each other.

The link below show a quad-tunner card for a PC that would certainly solve most of that problem. I'm thinking that it might be time to take a closer look a Windows 7 Media Center or MythTV

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/09/11/ceton-is-set-to-take-over-the-cablecard-pc-tuner-market/

Or lease TWO HD-DVRs.....and no extra programming tier costs...
A LOT less expensive than building up a new Media PC.....which might not do SDV....
and the motherboard will need to be compatible with CableCARD tuner for anything
other than local HD....

I would hold off until tru2way compatible Media PCs not only hit the market,
but are KNOWN to be WORKING.....

BTW: TWC and other cable companies have developed SCTE and CableLabs
specs for a new MPEG4/1080p data delivery service via IPTV protocol, which
is in some of the new cable boxes. This is expected to supplement/surplant
existing PPV and Premium channel program delivery, cuz it's twice as efficient
as SDV. I didn't see that mentioned in the Ceton article....

My biggest complaint with the cable DVR is that there are only 2 tunners, therefore you can only record 2 shows at a time. It seems the networks try to put all the good shows on the same night, opposite each other.

The link below show a quad-tunner card for a PC that would certainly solve most of that problem. I'm thinking that it might be time to take a closer look a Windows 7 Media Center or MythTV

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/09/11/ceton-is-set-to-take-over-the-cablecard-pc-tuner-market/

Don't think MythTV will support CableCard.

Not the way CableLabs has been stringent on the requirements. MythTV or any other remotely open sourced system or even any non-'big box' solution will ever see the light of day for cablecard use. Hell, we just got lucky and they finally lifted the OEM only requirement so DIY users can buy cablecard tuners retail and plop them in without hacks.

Ceton's actually coming out with some quad-tuner cards early 2010 not only with the aforementioned DIY support but full compliance and support for the SDV tuning adapters.

The big plus for a Media Center PC with cablecards is adding extenders to feed multiple rooms without running coax and subscribing to boxes for each one, access to the central DVR repository through all the extenders, and of course the customizability with the full media solution above and beyond even what Tivo is capable of. So if the budget is there, it's a fine solution.

Or lease TWO HD-DVRs.....and no extra programming tier costs...
A LOT less expensive than building up a new Media PC.....which might not do SDV....
and the motherboard will need to be compatible with CableCARD tuner for anything
other than local HD....

I would hold off until tru2way compatible Media PCs not only hit the market,
but are KNOWN to be WORKING.....

BTW: TWC and other cable companies have developed SCTE and CableLabs
specs for a new MPEG4/1080p data delivery service via IPTV protocol, which
is in some of the new cable boxes. This is expected to supplement/surplant
existing PPV and Premium channel program delivery, cuz it's twice as efficient
as SDV. I didn't see that mentioned in the Ceton article....

I develop and sell software/hardware solutions for physican's offices. I can buy hardware & software at the wholesale level, so it wouldn't really be all that expensive for me. I haven't messed with media type boxes in the past because of the old saying "a cobler's children have no shoes". I like the idea of the DVR being someone else's problem, but it's finally beginning to be an almost no-brainer to throw together a media-center PC.

I go thru this hair-brained idea about every 6 months, so in another couple of days, I will move on and wait for someone else to solve the problem.

However AT&T UVerse is almost here (boxes are in the area) and it's DVR supposely can record 4 streams, so.....

And it could still do that. You just need a manual option.

If you cancel a recording before it airs all the box has to do is ask you if you want to reschedule the same show in the next available air slot and the problem is fixed. You say no and it waits until the next fresh episode rather than trying to record each instance of new.

Same with a conflict. Manually create a recording clash and it just has to ask if you want to reschedule one of them.

For passive conflict handling all it needs is a setting for conflict resolution. Automatic (as it is now) and do not reschedule.

Of course, that level of control is never going to happen.

Yes, that would be nicer. It should be easy to implement as well, but I believe you are correct that it is likely very low on their list of priorities, if it is there at all.

...

However AT&T UVerse is almost here (boxes are in the area) and it's DVR supposely can record 4 streams, so.....

But only 2 HD streams, AFAIK.

But only 2 HD streams, AFAIK.

Drats - with a little Google action, it appears that you are correct

I develop and sell software/hardware solutions for physican's offices. I can buy hardware & software at the wholesale level, so it wouldn't really be all that expensive for me. I haven't messed with media type boxes in the past because of the old saying "a cobler's children have no shoes". I like the idea of the DVR being someone else's problem, but it's finally beginning to be an almost no-brainer to throw together a media-center PC.

I go thru this hair-brained idea about every 6 months, so in another couple of days, I will move on and wait for someone else to solve the problem.

However AT&T UVerse is almost here (boxes are in the area) and it's DVR supposely can record 4 streams, so.....
Do not get to excited about the AT&T dvr Tivo has a 300 million dollar lawsuit aganist them also and is awaiting a court ruleing to force them to disable ALL and I repeat All of their DVRs just as they forced dish to do. Dish at first refused to disable and was just hit with a further 175 million dollar judgement.Dish owes Tivo if appeals fail 475 million dollars.

Or lease TWO HD-DVRs.....and no extra programming tier costs...
A LOT less expensive than building up a new Media PC.....which might not do SDV....
and the motherboard will need to be compatible with CableCARD tuner for anything
other than local HD....

I would hold off until tru2way compatible Media PCs not only hit the market,
but are KNOWN to be WORKING.....

BTW: TWC and other cable companies have developed SCTE and CableLabs
specs for a new MPEG4/1080p data delivery service via IPTV protocol, which
is in some of the new cable boxes. This is expected to supplement/surplant
existing PPV and Premium channel program delivery, cuz it's twice as efficient
as SDV. I didn't see that mentioned in the Ceton article....

With the following CEDIA announcements it makes the HTPC for cable much more compelling.

- MS announcement that with windows 7 DIYers can build a CableCard PC
- MS announcement that windows 7 supports SDV
- Ceton announcement of internal 4 tuner PCIe card that supports CableCard and SDV.

Other than PPV(which I believe can still be order via phone) and VOD which many who use DVRs don't use, a CableCard PC will be able to do everything a TWC DVR can do + a lot more.

I doubt you will ever see a tru2way PC because it means that MS would have to implement the cablecos java interface and MPEG-2 for regular HD channels isn't going away anytime soon. TWC is too cheap to replace all the boxes in the field.

The end result is that a Windows 7 PC with a Ceton tuner and a tuning adapter will be relevant for many years to come and it has no monthly fees.

And then you have the added factor that the Media Center PC will go with you to whatever TV provider you choose. Dish is coming out with a native tuner soon, with an HD-PVR (Native in MCE with a tiny hack, soon to be official by Hauppage as I recall) or two you can go to DirecTV, Uverse, or any company which doesn't use digital cable, analog cable, ATSC, or any existing technology that the system is compatible with which means it is even capable of indirectly supporting IPTV systems. Tivo surely will not do this. Best chance you have is 2 digital cable tuners and an ATSC tuner.

And with the DIY announcement and Ceton's upcoming 4 tuner card you could get a good system going for around ~$700-$800. Plunk down another ~$150 per extender if you desire that functionality and you have a good setup.

Tivo surely will not do this. Best chance you have is 2 digital cable tuners and an ATSC tuner.HD TiVos have two CableCARD-capable digital cable tuners and two ATSC tuners (actually, it has two tuners, each capable of tuning clear QAM, encrypted QAM and ATSC, so it can record two digital cable programs, two ATSC programs or any combination thereof. Though they're not going to mix cable and satellite in the same box (it's been tried before and the satellite providers wouldn't license it) they are going to start making DirecTV boxes again.

I'll believe the Ceton CableCARD and DISH Network interfaces when they actually materialize at retail--until then, they're just vaporware (I haven't heard anything about DirecTV or AT&T planning a PC tuner card). . Ceton's product is due to come out in "early 2010" and DISH called what they brought to show at CEDIA a "proof of concept" and refused to give an availability date--not too promising. We'll see when and if they appear :).

Actually Ceton's already produced similar cards that are out there now but only for OEMs and like single or dual tuner if memory serves. Them I'd much sooner see come to market than even ATI/AMD at this point. Their OCUR department was phased out recently as I have heard so I wouldn't expect much from their direction. Though with the lift of the DIY restriction, it gives room for some other manufacturers to come in like Hauppage and co. to release Cablecard tuners to retail as well.

As for Dish, I see no reason why they would not do it. Especially seeing as DirecTV pretty much killed off their attempt so it gives Dish a way to come ahead of DirecTV. Though as you said, it comes down to waiting to see it come out. But I have no reason to doubt they would.

I'll believe the Ceton CableCARD and DISH Network interfaces when they actually materialize at retail--until then, they're just vaporware (I haven't heard anything about DirecTV or AT&T planning a PC tuner card). . Ceton's product is due to come out in "early 2010" and DISH called what they brought to show at CEDIA a "proof of concept" and refused to give an availability date--not too promising. We'll see when and if they appear :).

If you click the link below you will find that someone here in Charlotte is beta testing the Ceton tuner with Windows 7 media center. In addition, since he is a TWC subscriber here in Charlotte, he has a tuning adapter and has confirmed that the Ceton tuner supports SDV.

http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/t/78488.aspx

Understand that it's not that only you want to watch it--if there was bandwidth in the SDV pool it would allocate it just for you, even if no one else wanted to watch it while you were and it wouldn't take it away to give it to a channel that a large number of people wanted to watch. The problem is that no one was watching it, so they didn't allocate space to it and now that you want to watch it, there's no space left because other switched services are being watched (some or all of which might be being viewed by only a single person).
You should report these problems to TWC. If they're caused by SDV, then they need to allocate more bandwidth to it and/or stop switching channels that are being watched at all times.
Huh? What does rebooting have to do with anything? It won't deallocate the bandwidth for a switched channel just because your box rebooted--if you had it tuned for a long time and bandwidth was running out, it might ask if you're still using it, since this will happen when people leave their cable STB in the ON state all the time. But I don't think that the SDV system has any way to know that your box rebooted. If you change the channel or put the box in the "OFF" state, then the system will be told that you aren't watching that channel anymore and if no one else is and the bandwidth is needed for something else, then it may reclaim it.

Thanks for the explanations. The reboot has to do with this because when I rebooted the box all the channels worked again. I guess it's possible that it was coincidence and by the time the box got done doing it's reboot some of the SDV pool was available again?

I am sure it is to release the bandwidth for someone else figuring you forgot about it. In pause, on an OD show, would still use bandwidth and cable services (the unit at the head-end playing the video for you) for just you alone. Unlike SDV, no one else would be watching the same thing at the same location in the show (excluding someone QAM tuning within your neighborhood watching your show with you). /Dan

You are on to something there. Most times I have no trouble accessing the show again after a 5 minute pause session but there have been a couple times when I couldn't get the show to be available again so maybe that was because while I was paused it gave my bandwidth (the last remaining bandwidth) to someone else. thanks

You can get around it in Navigator by marking the stuff as "Do Not Delete" (you can do it for each individual episode, or if you mark series as "Keep All Episodes", it is done for you). As a visual sign of that you'll see a green icon next to (existing or scheduled) recording. These are never deleted, so if something new comes up that will cause you to run out of space, it will not get recorded. Clumsy, I know, but a workaround nonetheless.

However, the problem here is not the way Navigator handles series recordings - it does it right - it is that the drives are too small, which cause you to use that workaround of cancelling scheduled recordings *that you want to watch* in the first place. That workaround, although may accomplish what you need, is a hack and not something that they should consider in their software development.

There are a lot of features that do not work right or are not implemented at all, no point in complaining about the one that actually works logically and correctly, for everyone but Riverside.

By the way, Riverside, box rebooting once on its own when there is no software update is not a good sign. Doing it several times in a couple of weeks is a sure sign that something is seriously wrong, either with the box or your signal or both. Have the signal checked and/or swap the box (now is a good time, as the fall season has not fully started yet), and forget about series stuff not working right every time - it does so for everybody else. Note that the box and signal being good enough for Passport does not mean they are good enough for Navigator, as it is more picky. Also, upgrade may have hosed your box.

No fooling! However, I still find the apparent method they use to be seriously flawed, it's simply a dumb way.

I tried the "watch the ep, stop at the end and delete it" and out of three shows, that worked for one but not the other two (the recorded show was still in the list even after I confirmed the delete).

I did a long post on exactly how to access signal strength last week in the NYC thread and nobody has bother to respond. I see a lot of conflicting advice about what is or isn't acceptable, my numbers are always negative. AND my building went through the process of them encasing everything in steel conduit years ago, so there's not one wire exposed to anything on it's way into my apartment.

I suspect my best approach is to go to their place and see if I can get a 3090 (no way I will take a HDC, it's supposed to be very sluggish with ODN and I can field swap the drive in the 3090 for a 320G, not to mention I COULD totally luck out and get a 320 from TWC).

but... but... but... How is it to know that the next showing it finds is indeed the same new episode? Many of the cable series we are talking about intermix old episodes with repeat showings of the week's new episode. The fact is that only ONE of the multiple episodes shown during the week is in fact the new episode for that week. Labeling it as such is hardly "falsifying" data.

Because from the data they get from TV Guide, it always DID know when it was REALLY first run (and thus actually NEW). Before MDN, ONLY the first run ep got "NEW" tagged on it.

Of course, you could say that the issue is my "expectation," putting the onus on me. So yes, my expectation is that only the real first run ep is actually NEW, the second airing is not NEW.

I DO understand an attempt to deal with the few conflicts that do occur can be useful, I just find their "method" to be seriously flawed. There can easily be more than one other method that doesn't depend on tagging incorrect information in guide data... and redefining what NEW means is simply adding incorrect information to the guide data (makes it very difficult to tell when an actual first run episode airs).

And I really, really like it finding other airings automatically and silently; that is my favorite Navigator feature by far.

I actually DO understand that, BUT the business of HAVING to record then delete the first run when you watch it "live" ain't automatic or silent. I've tried to document WHY there is an inherent danger in that, given so little room for recording...

I suspect a lot of this boils down to the fact I have been involved in software development for a while and I have actual BASIC standards that they can't seem to live up... and it really boils down to the fact they simply will not hire anyone who has clue one about software development.

My biggest complaint with the cable DVR is that there are only 2 tunners, therefore you can only record 2 shows at a time. It seems the networks try to put all the good shows on the same night, opposite each other.

Absolutely. Many folks actually do have some leeway if they have QAM capable TVs... they CAN watch a HD network broadcast via that and record 2 other HD streams.

Mine does not, BUT that's kinda my fault, when I got it I opted NOT to get a cable card model. If I had, three at the same time wouldn't be an issue. BUT I could swear that 4-5 years ago, this was a non-issue... almost never did I see 3 at the same time. Hell, last year I didn't rally see 4, but this year I see that for some that very much COULD be an issue. My decision AT THE TIME was reasonable, but today... not so much.

No fooling! However, I still find the apparent method they use to be seriously flawed, it's simply a dumb way.

I tried the "watch the ep, stop at the end and delete it" and out of three shows, that worked for one but not the other two (the recorded show was still in the list even after I confirmed the delete).

I did a long post on exactly how to access signal strength last week in the NYC thread and nobody has bother to respond. I see a lot of conflicting advice about what is or isn't acceptable, my numbers are always negative. AND my building went through the process of them encasing everything in steel conduit years ago, so there's not one wire exposed to anything on it's way into my apartment.

I suspect my best approach is to go to their place and see if I can get a 3090 (no way I will take a HDC, it's supposed to be very sluggish with ODN and I can field swap the drive in the 3090 for a 320G, not to mention I COULD totally luck out and get a 320 from TWC).

Regardless of whether you agree with how it is supposed to work, there seems to be no question that your particular unit is not even doing that. Perhaps if you weren't saddled with the extra frustration caused by your particular box, you would find Navigator's series recording functions less of a burden, especially coupled with a 320GB Sammie.

It's hard to imagine a scenario where digital channels would not be "negative" at the STB input. They are typically run at least 10db lower than analog carriers, which are usually not higher than +10dBmV at the settop. The term "negative" shouldn't necessarily have a negative connotation to it... it just means that the level is lower than the 1mV across 75Ω level used to establish the 0dBmV reference - a reference originally established for analog carriers.

The Samsung, for instance, is rated for inputs as low as -15dBmV. The S/N is much more telling, though. You could have a -12dBmV input on a clean channel and have a good S/N, but also have a channel reading with a -5dBmV carrier level but have ingress and distortion issues that push the S/N lower than the channel with lower carrier level.

In addition to our theme based line-up coming to Milwaukee on October 13, TWC has officially announced the following new HD channels before the end of the year:

Plus more HDs on the way!

Before the end of the year, more HDs are coming, including:

• ESPNU HD
• Disney XD HD
• Cartoon Network HD
• BBC America HD
• Turner Classic Movies HD
• E! HD
• AMC HD
• Outdoor Channel HD
• Headline News HD
• FOX Business HD

Jack

In addition to our theme based line-up coming to Milwaukee on October 13, TWC has officially announced the following new HD channels before the end of the year:

Plus more HDs on the way!

Before the end of the year, more HDs are coming, including:

• ESPNU HD
• Disney XD HD
• Cartoon Network HD
• BBC America HD
• Turner Classic Movies HD
• E! HD
• AMC HD
• Outdoor Channel HD
• Headline News HD
• FOX Business HD

Jack

We already have the ones I bolded... BBC-A would be a nice addition, TCM would depend on whether they use classic Turner Stretch-o-Vision tactics. BTW, there is a lot of SD content (with ESPN logo sidebars) on ESPN-U HD.

We already have the ones I bolded... BBC-A would be a nice addition, TCM would depend on whether they use classic Turner Stretch-o-Vision tactics. BTW, there is a lot of SD content (with ESPN logo sidebars) on ESPN-U HD.

My understanding at least on the early stages of TCM-HD for divisions that currently have it, is that they will be keeping movings in the proper aspect ratio, so if an HD equivalent is not available the film will NOT be stretched.

It's been said that the HD films look great! But there are some prints where they did not yet have an HD copy of the film. Someone said that they only showed an SD copy of The Conversation from the 70's. That is really surprising!

I just wonder with the age of some of the films, how well they will transfer? Does anyone currently have TCM-HD and can tell us about it? (Sorry to go OT! But we are finding that more and more issues relating to Navigator are also indirectly related to other things as well.)

Jack

Absolutely. Many folks actually do have some leeway if they have QAM capable TVs... they CAN watch a HD network broadcast via that and record 2 other HD streams.

Mine does not, BUT that's kinda my fault, when I got it I opted NOT to get a cable card model. If I had, three at the same time wouldn't be an issue. BUT I could swear that 4-5 years ago, this was a non-issue... almost never did I see 3 at the same time. Hell, last year I didn't rally see 4, but this year I see that for some that very much COULD be an issue. My decision AT THE TIME was reasonable, but today... not so much.

last TV season I did 4 at a time:
1. 8300HD
2. 8300HD
3. Philips 3576 DVR - analog or clear QAM, can record HD signal, but best playback is widescreen SD :(
4. OTA via TV's ATSC tunner, beautiful picture, but can't FF thru commercials:(

have to do a bit of planning to make sure to record encrypted on 8300HD

Absolutely. Many folks actually do have some leeway if they have QAM capable TVs... they CAN watch a HD network broadcast via that and record 2 other HD streams.

Mine does not, BUT that's kinda my fault, when I got it I opted NOT to get a cable card model. If I had, three at the same time wouldn't be an issue. BUT I could swear that 4-5 years ago, this was a non-issue... almost never did I see 3 at the same time. Hell, last year I didn't rally see 4, but this year I see that for some that very much COULD be an issue. My decision AT THE TIME was reasonable, but today... not so much.

Is TW/NYC encrypting the HD broadcast QAMS? If not, you can split the cable input (one leg to STB, one leg to TV) and watch one broadcast QAM while recording two others. Also (and I know this may be iffy in NYC), have you tried an indoor antenna to receive the OTA DTV broadcasts directly with your TV?

I actually have both of those setups available (with an IR controlled A/B switch to switch the TV input between the cable split and the OTA antenna) and it gives a lot of flexibility. I like to watch football and racing OTA when available, and I can still route the STB output to a second 22" monitor I have in the wall unit for PoP with a second game on it.

Is TW/NYC encrypting the HD broadcast QAMS? If not, you can split the cable input (one leg to STB, one leg to TV) and watch one broadcast QAM while recording two others. Also (and I know this may be iffy in NYC), have you tried an indoor antenna to receive the OTA DTV broadcasts directly with your TV?

I actually have both of those setups available (with an IR controlled A/B switch to switch the TV input between the cable split and the OTA antenna) and it gives a lot of flexibility. I like to watch football and racing OTA when available, and I can still route the STB output to a second 22" monitor I have in the wall unit for PoP with a second game on it.

my 3 year old Samsung 42" plazma has 2 coax inputs, so you have 2 cable or 2 OTA or 1 each(my setup). I keep looking at 50-54" 1080p, but all seem to have only 1 coax.

my 3 year old Samsung 42" plazma has 2 coax inputs, so you have 2 cable or 2 OTA or 1 each(my setup). I keep looking at 50-54" 1080p, but all seem to have only 1 coax.

Not many, if any around. We used them often in commercial installations where CATV and in-house biz channel were distributed on separate cables, but they are not to be found anymore. That's why I have the IR controlled A/B switch on my 9 mo old Samsung. Harmony remote's programmed to change inputs and change TV's tuning mode.

We already have the ones I bolded... BBC-A would be a nice addition, TCM would depend on whether they use classic Turner Stretch-o-Vision tactics. BTW, there is a lot of SD content (with ESPN logo sidebars) on ESPN-U HD.

FWIW, we have both BBC HD & TCM HD. PQ on BBC HD seems pretty good, TCM has a lot of 4:3 SD, which may be expected. To date (only a month or so) TCM seems to have recording issues, they had a great night of War of the World's and Time Machine, WotW only recorded 40 minutes then shut down, TM was listed in the recorded shows list, but as soon as one said "Play" it spring up the the delete or save dialog. AND I wasn't the only one, this happened to others as well, so it could have nothing to do with DVR software.

Regardless of whether you agree with how it is supposed to work, there seems to be no question that your particular unit is not even doing that. Perhaps if you weren't saddled with the extra frustration caused by your particular box, you would find Navigator's series recording functions less of a burden, especially coupled with a 320GB Sammie.

It's hard to imagine a scenario where digital channels would not be "negative" at the STB input. They are typically run at least 10db lower than analog carriers, which are usually not higher than +10dBmV at the settop. The term "negative" shouldn't necessarily have a negative connotation to it... it just means that the level is lower than the 1mV across 75Ω level used to establish the 0dBmV reference - a reference originally established for analog carriers.

The Samsung, for instance, is rated for inputs as low as -15dBmV. The S/N is much more telling, though. You could have a -12dBmV input on a clean channel and have a good S/N, but also have a channel reading with a -5dBmV carrier level but have ingress and distortion issues that push the S/N lower than the channel with lower carrier level.

I suspect what got me concerned originally was more than one person saying +10 was good, but at +4 one needed to worry. I seem to range from -12 to -7. One curious thing was on HBO and Max, the normally "primary" channel was -10, but the "sub channels" were -7.

SNR seems to be good, when I check it seems to be 35 or 36... can't recall seeing any other figure.

Somehow I would find it hard to believe my signal strength has anything to do with flaky IPG software, would you concur?

FWIW, I'm still yapping about this because I'm spending TOO MUCH time trying to arrive at a logical timeline... I was about to try and get a Sammy, then I ran into what looked like possible signal strength issues, so I surmised a field visit for signal, take a Sammy if the driver had one, if not then go and try and pick one up. Plus, I'd rather not bundle up my HD, get on the subway only to find they only has HDCs to give out... I do NOT want a HDC.

Oh, and thanks for being civil given we have some differences of opinion!

My understanding at least on the early stages of TCM-HD for divisions that currently have it, is that they will be keeping movings in the proper aspect ratio, so if an HD equivalent is not available the film will NOT be stretched.

It's been said that the HD films look great! But there are some prints where they did not yet have an HD copy of the film. Someone said that they only showed an SD copy of The Conversation from the 70's. That is really surprising!

I just wonder with the age of some of the films, how well they will transfer? Does anyone currently have TCM-HD and can tell us about it? (Sorry to go OT! But we are finding that more and more issues relating to Navigator are also indirectly related to other things as well.)

Jack

Yes, ever time I check there's no TNT stretch-o-vision nor that totally disgusting non linear distortion IFC subjects all the films they show to.

Personally, I don;t mind all that much seeing real widescreen SD... I've seen enough HD transfers that look kinda SD anyway. I suppose one has to consider that probably a new transfer for widescreen might cost something, although I cant imagine that costing all that much.

Going through an actual film restoration generally isn't terribly cheap. BUT it can have spectacular results... I think of Breakfast at Tiffanies and West Side Story... both films made for stunning displays when I HAD HDNet!

And it gets even more complicated. There are stories about films shot in 4:3 that had 16:9 theatrical showings (cropped) then back to 4:3 for HD broadcast. I forget the actual film, but I recall a HUGE amount of ranting over a 4:3 HD showing with MANY claiming to have seen it in widescreen. They did, but they also were seeing a truncated version while the 4:3 DVD was far more "correct" to the original intent.

The point being that before one slams TCM, try and check the history a bit.

Oh, now I remember... it was War of the World's! The 40 minutes or so I did get to see on TCM was 4:3, but looked VERY good. I did some research and found it HAD gone through a film restoration and was shown originally in widescreen although it never actually was shot that way.

Oh, and thanks for being civil given we have some differences of opinion!

My objective is never to "force" anyone to like something... just to make sure they understand it before the really decide. Between the natural learning/adaptation curve and the fact that your particular box is not treating you well, I still don't think you have seen how well series recording can and does work in Navigator. Regardless, none of this would ever be any reason to be uncivil... just trying to be helpful.

Is TW/NYC encrypting the HD broadcast QAMS? If not, you can split the cable input (one leg to STB, one leg to TV) and watch one broadcast QAM while recording two others. Also (and I know this may be iffy in NYC), have you tried an indoor antenna to receive the OTA DTV broadcasts directly with your TV?

I actually have both of those setups available (with an IR controlled A/B switch to switch the TV input between the cable split and the OTA antenna) and it gives a lot of flexibility. I like to watch football and racing OTA when available, and I can still route the STB output to a second 22" monitor I have in the wall unit for PoP with a second game on it.

Far as I know (i.e. what others tell me) broadcast clear channels in HD are available. Again, from what I read, the actual obligation doesn't mention HD so they COULD only supply the SD. On that, discussion could range around regulation intent vs. actual specifications!

Unfortunately, OTA doesn't seem to work for me... I'm way uptown and have a lot more "blockage" then when the OTA came from north WTC tower.

Yes, I have always split the cable before it hit my STB with the raw end going into another input on my TV. Quality with that has always seemed WAY variable. Sometimes it seems at least decent, sometimes god awful.

Yes, I have always split the cable before it hit my STB with the raw end going into another input on my TV. Quality with that has always seemed WAY variable. Sometimes it seems at least decent, sometimes god awful.

For the analogs or for the digitals? Shouldn't really be much of a difference either way (using STB vs tuning with TV). I know that, regardless of whether they analog or digital channels, they are essentially indistinguishable in my setup. The real advantage to the STB is the larger number of channels it can receive plus the guide and info banner functions. But if the STB tuners are occupied making recordings and you want to watch watch a third broasdcast QAM HD, there should be no reason not use the TV tuner as your third tuner.

The OTA HDs, on the other hand, can sometimes show less blocking on fast moving sports than the cable versions. Fortunately, at least here in Charlotte, TW is not overly bruising the HDs and they arrive in pretty decent shape, so the difference can be slight, if any. Sometimes, when I see excessive blocking in broadcast channel via TW, I switch to the OTA feed and find that it's blocking up just as bad there as well.

BTW... if you are still concerned about your signal levels and the splitter is still there and you are not taking advantage of it, removing it will immediately raise your signal levels to the STB by 3-4 dB across the board.

BTW... if you are still concerned about your signal levels and the splitter is still there and you are not taking advantage of it, removing it will immediately raise your signal levels to the STB by 3-4 dB across the board.

Damn, I SHOULD have thought about that! It's way more than you say... I just did a spin around and got SNR 36-38, signal levels ran -2 to +2. Not sure this has anything really to do with my MDN issues (I suspect not), but I think it might have something to do with my skippage issues.

It's rated 40-2159 MHz... it is in spec isn't it (I recall splitters should be at least in the gigahertz range)?

I DO have another splitter in the line, but that is for my IP, so removing it isn't an option. That splitter is right as the cable enters my apartment... now I'm wondering about the probably 30 year old line running from there into where my TV lives. BUT that line has always been tacked down, so it theoretically should be as solid as a new line.

I'll live with it this way for a few weeks to see if anything substantively changes.

Damn, I SHOULD have thought about that! It's way more than you say... I just did a spin around and got SNR 36-38, signal levels ran -2 to +2. Not sure this has anything really to do with my MDN issues (I suspect not), but I think it might have something to do with my skippage issues.

It's rated 40-2159 MHz... it is in spec isn't it (I recall splitters should be at least in the gigahertz range)?

I DO have another splitter in the line, but that is for my IP, so removing it isn't an option. That splitter is right as the cable enters my apartment... now I'm wondering about the probably 30 year old line running from there into where my TV lives. BUT that line has always been tacked down, so it theoretically should be as solid as a new line.

I'll live with it this way for a few weeks to see if anything substantively changes.

If it was a 2-way splitter and you picked up more than 4 dB than there was something wrong with the splitter, regardless of the specs printed on it. If not the splitter, than one of the jumper cables you removed was faulty.

Another thing... 30 years ago it was common to use wire staples to "tack down" cable drops... well, even the round head Arrow T-37 staples meant for cable usage crushed the cable slightly... the fastidious installer who religiously put a staple exactly every 2' was actually creating a tuned trap and creating frequency response issues. Also, if the drop wire is 30 years old... is it RG59 or RG6? Besides the inherently greater loss in RG59, 30 years ago cable was typically sweep tested and rated to 300MHz or maybe 500MHz at most. Your cable signals are probably at least out to 750 MHz now. Might be time for some new interior wiring. Cable installation techniques... at least by properly trained installers, have changed significantly in the past 30 years to ensure that extraneous losses are not introduced at the higher frequencies now being used.

I was about to suggest the same thing jcalabria, I replaced the splitter in my house with a zero return loss 8 way distribution amp and fresh RG6 to each outlet. Now, I know that's not always possible, but in my case my signal went from -8 to +3/+5 at each outlet. I have not had any pixelation problems or SDV issues since.

I was watching one of the National Geographic Channel On Demand Specials on the Showcase OD channel, "The Girl Who Cried Blood." On the first commercial I like to FF through these, and in this case the show would freeze or in some cases FF just a little bit and than stop. The show's Progress Bar would be filled in, but when I would FF it would jump all the way to the end of the show, even though the part of the show that it was showing was at the beginning. You could press the FF button 1x, 2x, or 3x. No difference.

I tried other shows on National Geographic on Demand and they worked fine in terms of Fast Forwarding, Pausing, Rewinding, and stopping. It was only on this episode. A warm reboot of the box, sort of got the show where I could FF and Rewind, but the Progress Bar would only fill in BEFORE the FF/ Rewind buttons were pressed. Oh, and I COULD not Rewind back to the beginning of the show using the buttons. It would only take me back to about the point in the program where I had rebooted the box.

I COULD press the stop button and Restart it from the beginning. Finally, on about the third try, I was able to FF through the commercials and see the whole show. Rewind started working too. However, the Progress bar was still flaky but only on this episode, as if Navigator "remembered" something had gone wrong.

All the other On-Demand Programs on HD Showcase worked fine and the Progress Bar was correct as well. Have any of you had this type of problem with a show on VOD?

Jack

TWC signed a deal with BigBand to deploy SDV in NYC, LA, and Dallas.

If it was a 2-way splitter and you picked up more than 4 dB than there was something wrong with the splitter, regardless of the specs printed on it. If not the splitter, than one of the jumper cables you removed was faulty.

Another thing... 30 years ago it was common to use wire staples to "tack down" cable drops... well, even the round head Arrow T-37 staples meant for cable usage crushed the cable slightly... the fastidious installer who religiously put a staple exactly every 2' was actually creating a tuned trap and creating frequency response issues. Also, if the drop wire is 30 years old... is it RG59 or RG6? Besides the inherently greater loss in RG59, 30 years ago cable was typically sweep tested and rated to 300MHz or maybe 500MHz at most. Your cable signals are probably at least out to 750 MHz now. Might be time for some new interior wiring. Cable installation techniques... at least by properly trained installers, have changed significantly in the past 30 years to ensure that extraneous losses are not introduced at the higher frequencies now being used.

VERY interesting, I appreciate the explanation. Looked at some of the run, indeed it seemed to have a staple every 2 feet!

Gaining the rough amount of signal strength seems to have a very good effect, last night was the first time in a long time, I went an entire evening without ANY glitches at all!

Of course, something very odd also happened. TNT is one of the specific channels that seemed to always have occasional glitches (not as much a Fox). So I watched a recorded show from TNT that was recorded over a week ago. Not one glitch! So I think "how can this be, I'm replaying something recorded during a time when I should have several glitches..." Any ideas there?

I have noticed some more "odd" things, that seem to point to needing to consider the chain when logic says it shouldn't matter. One case in point, for years I have been bothered that the boxes remote will NOT work during the first 3-4 minutes the box is on. And by that, I mean from the normal distance (~8 feet). It SEEMED that the box had to warm up a bit before it would work reliably... although I doubt that as a real reason. And I know I've swapped out the remote. After getting MDNed, another factor has crept in. If I leave the DVR ON but turn off my HDMI connected TV, the same thing occurs. Only difference it seems to be quicker to get to working reliably.

Indeed, another "gotta swap the box out" thing!

I was about to suggest the same thing jcalabria, I replaced the splitter in my house with a zero return loss 8 way distribution amp and fresh RG6 to each outlet. Now, I know that's not always possible, but in my case my signal went from -8 to +3/+5 at each outlet. I have not had any pixelation problems or SDV issues since.

Indeed I may gain some more if I replace that wire run (a bit of a pain as on 2 occasions it goes through walls, and my building is pre-war so we're talking real walls of brick and plaster). I went from -12, -7 range to -2 to +2 range. We don;t have any SDV, but all the little glitches were absent last night. Can't say I ever had any serious pixilation issues, but momentary audio, video or both losses now seen gone (well, it was just one night, but I suspect it will be sustainable).

Well, usable signal ranges from -7 to +7 which is quite a swing with 0 being no loss (detent). If you went from -12 to +/-2 you made a HUGE gain. I see alot of people bashing TWC and the service when this is a very common problem with digital. Thing is a service call by a tech (not a subcontractor) usually fixes the issue. In my case, I knew what the issue was and chose to address my self when I did the installation. Glad to see you are making progress.

TWC signed a deal with BigBand to deploy SDV in NYC, LA, and Dallas.

I can't see any reason why they'd need SDV in NYC (now). We got a HUGE jump (something like 60+ on one day) in HD channels by them finally getting rid of 40 or so analog channels. Yes, several here and there have been added, but I THINK we may still have some bandwidth left. Not to mention there are STILL about 30 analogs that COULD equate to another 90 channels. BUT, I also think we're close to the total number of HD channels available (HDNet NOT being available notwithstanding) at 116 HD channels.

Now it is certainly possible that the NYC system can go TO 2 per QAM from our current 3 per QAM. If they leave the remaining analogs, it COULD be they may want to have some SDV.

I can't see any reason why they'd need SDV in NYC (now). We got a HUGE jump (something like 60+ on one day) in HD channels by them finally getting rid of 40 or so analog channels. Yes, several here and there have been added, but I THINK we may still have some bandwidth left. Not to mention there are STILL about 30 analogs that COULD equate to another 90 channels. BUT, I also think we're close to the total number of HD channels available (HDNet NOT being available notwithstanding) at 116 HD channels.

Now it is certainly possible that the NYC system can go TO 2 per QAM from our current 3 per QAM. If they leave the remaining analogs, it COULD be they may want to have some SDV.

I wouldn't think that 2 per QAM would be a TW goal UNLESS it was competitive positioning vs. FiOS... but who knows. I don't think most people are complaining about PQ w/ 3 per QAM packaging for most channels. Down here they already keep ESPN & ESPN2 as a 2 per QAM package.

I seems more likely to me that it's to free up spectrum for high bandwidth DOCSIS 3 so they can keep current with Cablevision Systems' bandwidth hype in the NY/NJ metro area. They are not a direct competitor but they advertise in the same market, so people are aware of Cablevision's offerings... what self-respecting New Yorker wants to be one-upped by his neighbor?

Today is the date that my node in Charlotte is being reconfigured to greatly expand the number of channels delivered by SDV... the total number is expanding to 177 channels, but the HD/SDV count is remaining unchanged with this reconfiguration... all the SDV additions are SD channels. We'll see if the so-far excellent SDV performance I've sen here continues.

I have noticed some more "odd" things, that seem to point to needing to consider the chain when logic says it shouldn't matter. One case in point, for years I have been bothered that the boxes remote will NOT work during the first 3-4 minutes the box is on. And by that, I mean from the normal distance (~8 feet). It SEEMED that the box had to warm up a bit before it would work reliably... although I doubt that as a real reason. And I know I've swapped out the remote. After getting MDNed, another factor has crept in. If I leave the DVR ON but turn off my HDMI connected TV, the same thing occurs. Only difference it seems to be quicker to get to working reliably.I followed a thread some weeks ago that had discovered that some Samsung LCD TV's interfere with their STB remotes for several minutes when first powered on. I have a program that runs on my Palm TX that detects IR (sorta like a geiger counter) and it indeed sets it off for about 8 minutes. One of my remotes will work for that 8 minutes, but the other won't unless very close to the box. I don't know if that's your problem, but something to consider.

Indeed I may gain some more if I replace that wire run (a bit of a pain as on 2 occasions it goes through walls, and my building is pre-war so we're talking real walls of brick and plaster). I went from -12, -7 range to -2 to +2 range. We don;t have any SDV, but all the little glitches were absent last night. Can't say I ever had any serious pixilation issues, but momentary audio, video or both losses now seen gone (well, it was just one night, but I suspect it will be sustainable).

You actually appear to have very good signal levels now, IN GENERAL.

However, what still may occur because of the older cable and installation is that it's possible that you may find one or two carriers that are mysteriously lower than the rest. A rewire may not give you an across the board increase in levels, but it may improve the smoothness across the spectrum, eliminating any suckouts effecting small portions of the spectrum.

However, if a rewire is a difficult project in your case and you appear to have no issues, then its probably not worth the effort.

I wouldn't think that 2 per QAM would be a TW goal UNLESS it was competitive positioning vs. FiOS... but who knows. I don't think most people are complaining about PQ w/ 3 per QAM packaging for most channels. Down here they already keep ESPN & ESPN2 as a 2 per QAM package.

Oh I think they VERY much are in that mode. A year ago I got a 99 rate for the normally 149 triple play. Verizon had just gotten their franchise deal, but were only deployed in very limited areas. Not only that, but it's been close to a year and some folks in those areas STILL don't have to available. A pal who lives in that area still can't get FiOS ("not on your block") called to cancel the tier with the missing HDNet and they gave him a 89 rate for the triple play.

I seems more likely to me that it's to free up spectrum for high bandwidth DOCSIS 3 so they can keep current with Cablevision Systems' bandwidth hype in the NY/NJ metro area. They are not a direct competitor but they advertise in the same market, so people are aware of Cablevision's offerings... what self-respecting New Yorker wants to be one-upped by his neighbor?

Any idea how much bandwidth is needed for DOCSIS 3.0? As in how many HD channels does it need... again I suspect FiOS is a factor, TWC does 10M/512k while FiOS is 25M/15M (just talking the basic package). BIG difference.

Cablevision (IO TV) has ben heavily pushing a 90 buck triple compared to TWCs 150. It's majorly annoying as they are not in Manhattan and never will be.

You actually appear to have very good signal levels now, IN GENERAL.

However, what still may occur because of the older cable and installation is that it's possible that you may find one or two carriers that are mysteriously lower than the rest. A rewire may not give you an across the board increase in levels, but it may improve the smoothness across the spectrum, eliminating any suckouts effecting small portions of the spectrum.

However, if a rewire is a difficult project in your case and you appear to have no issues, then its probably not worth the effort.

One thing that comes to mind is there's a high probability I will go FiOS when that is actually available. Then the issue becomes do they do free install and would they re-run that line? OTOH, soon I need some serious plaster work and painting, so that means far easier access to that line.

I wouldn't think that 2 per QAM would be a TW goal UNLESS it was competitive positioning vs. FiOS... but who knows. I don't think most people are complaining about PQ w/ 3 per QAM packaging for most channels. Down here they already keep ESPN & ESPN2 as a 2 per QAM package.On the systems here in San Diego, very few HD cable channels are provided at bit rates approaching the 19.4 Mbps that would require 2 per QAM. Some of the NBC/Universal stuff comes three per satellite transponder in a fashion which'd guarantee that they'd fit 3 per QAM; the HD premiums (Showtime, HBO, etc) are all variable bit rate--I've never seen anything on one of them get up over 13 Mbps. I measured programming on Universal HD at an average of 9 Mbps, which was astonishing, since it was very sharp and free of encoding artifacts even in high-motion scenes.

As I recall, the channels that were 18+ Mbps were the HD ESPNs, HDNet and HDNet Movies and TNT HD. I hadn't tested this stuff in quite a while--things may have changed. (I just resurrected a recording of some of the US Open from ESPN2 HD on my TiVo and it averaged 17.23 Mbps, still too heavy for 3 per QAM).

Oh I think they VERY much are in that mode. A year ago I got a 99 rate for the normally 149 triple play. Verizon had just gotten their franchise deal, but were only deployed in very limited areas. Not only that, but it's been close to a year and some folks in those areas STILL don't have to available. A pal who lives in that area still can't get FiOS ("not on your block") called to cancel the tier with the missing HDNet and they gave him a 89 rate for the triple play.



Any idea how much bandwidth is needed for DOCSIS 3.0? As in how many HD channels does it need... again I suspect FiOS is a factor, TWC does 10M/512k while FiOS is 25M/15M (just talking the basic package). BIG difference.

Cablevision (IO TV) has ben heavily pushing a 90 buck triple compared to TWCs 150. It's majorly annoying as they are not in Manhattan and never will be.

I know they are in FiOS competition mode... but its harder to make a competitive advantage point over compression factors with PQ difference that is negligible to most... unless FiOS is already doing that somehow and TW needs to counter. Most people (unfortunately) understand # of channels better.

It's possible (again, just conjecture) that some parts of the SDV provisioning infrastructure, even if its only handling the requests from the STB, might apply to MPEG4 distribution. The Sammies are MPEG4 capable boxes, and it's not hard to imagine premium 1080p services being added in the NYC market with delivery via switched MPEG4.

Bandwidth for data depends on speeds offered and number of subscribers per node, so its not a simple answer of how many channels does DOCSIS 3 occupy.

The long term trend seems to be that, as cable systems abandon NTSC, more and more will rebuild/upgrade from current sub-split (5-40MHz upstream, 50-750/860/1000MHz downstream) diplexing configurations to high-split diplexing with 5-174MHz upstream and 200-1000MHz downstream, which will greatly relieve the current upstream bandwidth bottleneck.

BTW... I believe Cablevision is now offering >100M service.

whats a good splitter for 2 boxes and internet? or should i use 2 splitter. first split to internet and cable, and then split the cable to the 2 boxes.

boxes are close.

That is some very good news Riverside!!!

You know with the millions of users who have box reboots too often, pixiation, unreliable recordings from DVR, very few ask the critical questions. "Have I had your signal strength checked? Is my wiring more than ten years old?" If you have a dwelling from World War I, there may be some major rewiring that is going to have to be redone REGARDLESS of whether you have cable, satellite, Verizon, or U-VERSE.

Now if only the stupid companies would emphasize the importance of quality wiring, signal strength, and having a straight direct connection, (no splitters) as much as possible, maybe so many people would not be quick to jump on "The box won't work" "A new box should solve the problem.' theory

So Riverside, it sounds like what you are doing has really helped! Keep us posted! What else is left that you could do that could improve the quality of the signal and reception in your dwelling? You know, if you could do that whole rewiring thing, you might even solve that "Warm Up" issue!

And this is still with the SA-8300HD with MDN Navigator build:2.4.4-16 correct?

Jack

There are reports in the Charlotte forum of eSATA working with 830HDCs running navigator.

The most shocking part is that TWC emailed the list of compatible drives.

Note that someone a few posts down from the one linked confirms that one of the drives work.

Did TWC actually listen to its customers?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17192949#post17192949

There are reports in the Charlotte forum of eSATA working with 830HDCs running navigator.

The most shocking part is that TWC emailed the list of compatible drives.

Note that someone a few posts down from the one linked confirms that one of the drives work.

Did TWC actually listen to its customers?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17192949#post17192949

how about esata on sammies 3090?

how about esata on sammies 3090?

Been a no-go for me.

There are reports in the Charlotte forum of eSATA working with 830HDCs running navigator.

The most shocking part is that TWC emailed the list of compatible drives.

Note that someone a few posts down from the one linked confirms that one of the drives work.

Did TWC actually listen to its customers?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17192949#post17192949I wonder who that Charlotte tech support guy meant when he stated that "they" had been testing drives? TWC Corporate, or TWC Charlotte? In any case, I never though I'd live to see the day when they offered official support for user-purchased-and-installed eSATA expansion drives. Sounds like a potential support nightmare. TiVo does it, but they only support a single drive model--connect anything else and it won't recognize it (except, of course, the discontinued original TiVo Series3--people started using an early undocumented implementation of eSATA expansion and they didn't want to stop recognizing drives already in use so it will use anything).

That's pretty much what they're doing Mike is the same as Tivo does. Basically supporting a VERY limited set of drives. The only one I know of that has been proven here on this forum to work with the SA eSata capable boxes is the Western Digital Mybook drives (probably within a size limit).

Should rephrase that I doubt it is official support but more one or two CSR's who are spreading their own unofficial info.

That's pretty much what they're doing Mike is the same as Tivo does. Basically supporting a VERY limited set of drives. The only one I know of that has been proven here on this forum to work with the SA eSata capable boxes is the Western Digital Mybook drives (probably within a size limit).

Should rephrase that I doubt it is official support but more one or two CSR's who are spreading their own unofficial info.
Be very careful. WD "MyBook" HDD do NOT work with SA8300HD, whereas WD "My DVR Expander" does
plus several others.....

Click on either SARA or PASSPORT to be taken to the NAVIGATOR database
of known working/non-working/flaky drives:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=516559

PS: It appears to MOSTLY be a HARDWARE issue....with only a few operating system issues.
So if it works or doesn't work on SARA or PASSPORT, it's probably the same on NAVIGATOR (YMMV....)

That is some very good news Riverside!!!

You know with the millions of users who have box reboots too often, pixiation, unreliable recordings from DVR, very few ask the critical questions. "Have I had your signal strength checked? Is my wiring more than ten years old?" If you have a dwelling from World War I, there may be some major rewiring that is going to have to be redone REGARDLESS of whether you have cable, satellite, Verizon, or U-VERSE.

Now if only the stupid companies would emphasize the importance of quality wiring, signal strength, and having a straight direct connection, (no splitters) as much as possible, maybe so many people would not be quick to jump on "The box won't work" "A new box should solve the problem.' theory

So Riverside, it sounds like what you are doing has really helped! Keep us posted! What else is left that you could do that could improve the quality of the signal and reception in your dwelling? You know, if you could do that whole rewiring thing, you might even solve that "Warm Up" issue!

And this is still with the SA-8300HD with MDN Navigator build:2.4.4-16 correct?

Jack

Indeed, the thing I spazzed on was at the TV. A tech last fall said my signal level was great, so I thought all was OK at the TV. I think it was all in getting far more loss in the additional splitter... the 2 additional cables were very short and very well (professionally) constructed (the connectors were far beefier than typical). Which is not to say there weren't issues in the wires... but I got through a second "not one glitch" night so I think that issue is put to bed. I THINK I may not get spontaneous re-boots like I was getting prior, but that "answer" will only come in 2-3 weeks!

Yes, 2.4.4-16. Still, I have to soon swap that box out, it continues to plague my series recordings (I watched, recorded and deleted after the recording finished this weeks Cleaner and it went and re-recorded it at 2 AM, even though the recording log said "deleted by user" for the original air time).

I wonder who that Charlotte tech support guy meant when he stated that "they" had been testing drives? TWC Corporate, or TWC Charlotte? In any case, I never though I'd live to see the day when they offered official support for user-purchased-and-installed eSATA expansion drives. Sounds like a potential support nightmare. TiVo does it, but they only support a single drive model--connect anything else and it won't recognize it (except, of course, the discontinued original TiVo Series3--people started using an early undocumented implementation of eSATA expansion and they didn't want to stop recognizing drives already in use so it will use anything).

Partly based on knowing different divisions implementing different features in the exact same hardware/software and software version, this I would assume is Charlotte specific.

Again, the issue 100% revolves (IMO) around the fact their DVRs have woefully inadequate recording space. Before HD really took hold, their DVRs held 90 hours (and even farther back, the very first DVRs I saw had 80G drives, so 45 hours of recoding space, more than double what todays hold for HD). Now that many have gone HD (and TWC has had to increase the number of HD channels it carries) we only get 20. I seriously doubt many would have the kind of angst if they have started putting 500G drives in the DVRs. I also seriously doubt there all that much cost differential... currently.

. I also seriously doubt there all that much cost differential... currently.

I concur. I'm currently building systems with WD Black Edition 1TB drive which I get for around $90. I also saw a special for some Seagate 1.5TB drives for $99! That's me buying them one or two at a time. A large manufacturer should be able to do much better than that.

PS: It appears to MOSTLY be a HARDWARE issue....with only a few operating system issues.
So if it works or doesn't work on SARA or PASSPORT, it's probably the same on NAVIGATOR (YMMV....)

You think so? Can't say I'm convinced it's all a hardware issue. We do have a fair amount of evidence that the 2.x series seemed to not have issues, while the 3.x series sure did, even for folks who have the same hardware and got upgraded to 3.x from 2.x.

I concur. I'm currently building systems with WD Black Edition 1TB drive which I get for around $90. I also saw a special for some Seagate 1.5TB drives for $99! That's me buying them one or two at a time. A large manufacturer should be able to do much better than that.

And nobody forget or ignore Ben is talking RETAIL pricing! I doubt we'll wait all that long for 2T drives to hit the 100 retail mark!

Not only that, but where else is there ANY demand for 160G drives? It seems to me those may be almost special runs...

TiVo does it, but they only support a single drive model--connect anything else and it won't recognize it (except, of course, the discontinued original TiVo Series3--people started using an early undocumented implementation of eSATA expansion and they didn't want to stop recognizing drives already in use so it will use anything).I should point out that, although TiVo's firmware running on a Series3 will let you use any drive, TiVo will not support it. If you call them up for help with an external drive problem, they'll ping your box to find out what the external drive is and won't open a trouble ticket for it if it's not one of the two models which they support (the 500GB and 1TB Western Digital My DVR Expander).

You think so? Can't say I'm convinced it's all a hardware issue. We do have a fair amount of evidence that the 2.x series seemed to not have issues, while the 3.x series sure did, even for folks who have the same hardware and got upgraded to 3.x from 2.x.

I would say there are two issues:

1. Hardware issues that we don't really understand, but that the databases clearly identify. These tend to be the same regardless of software

2. Navigator issues with TWC breaking eSATA on some ODN 2.x releases and so far as I know, all ODN 3.x releases. Also as far as I know, MDN has not had any issues other than those caused by (1).

The issue with the MyBook drive does fall squarely in category 1.

xnappo

Well my Navigator Brethren, if all goes well with my landlord, I am off to Dish Network land. They are coming between 8-12, so we'll see if they can even do it at my rental. I'll report back and let you guys know, wish me luck.

Hope it goes well.

Well my Navigator Brethren, if all goes well with my landlord, I am off to Dish Network land. They are coming between 8-12, so we'll see if they can even do it at my rental. I'll report back and let you guys know, wish me luck.

Et us know how you make out and a brief DVR/ Overall service comparison would be nice for others.

Success!!! And man I wish I would have done this 4 years ago and not settle for TWC's subpar tech and shenanigans. Anyway, install went really well, put it on back patio, mounted it on a metal gate with pipe clamps that separates my neighbor and I. Super clean install, great tech who had been doing installs in multi units for 6 years. He was able to use just a portion of my existing timewarner run and keep my digital phone and internet, which was a really nice bonus, I didn't want AT&T DSL. So all in all fantastic experience, so far this is LIGHTYEARS ahead of TWC, so hears the rundown so far.

-Much faster, true widescreen guide
-Can filter the guide to just see HD channels
-Can Create a favorite channel listed guide, multiple favorite guides actually and quickly choose which to use.
-Keyword search
-Can watch DVR'd shows on second TV (although not in HD)
-Tricked out my second RF remote for my 722k box to control the extra receiver in bedroom, so I only have to use one remote for everything
-60 hours of HD storage on the 500GB drive
-Can hook up USB drive no problem
-Gonna hook up to my broadband for 1080P movies.
-Picture is phenomenal
-30 second skip forward and back during DVR playback
-4 steps to FF and REW and the first is faster than TWC's step 1
-2 slow motion choices
-Guide tells you the shows original air date
-PiP has 3 size settings including a split screen which is amazing
-Cinemax for a cent a month for a year
-Got the OTA tuner module for the 722k, and OTA antenna on the way to record 4 HD feeds at once
-Remote DVR scheduling from the web or cell phone

So far, I will not miss TWC one bit, any other questions you guys have just let me know I would HIGHLY recommend this, I know this isn't relevant for this thread and I will definitely be in here to check up on you guys. I just can't believe how behind TWC is in the game, they need to really start churning out some better offerings really quick.

I just can't believe how behind TWC is in the game, they need to really start churning out some better offerings really quick.Not really. There are many millions of people who only want limited basic cable and appreciate that they don't have to do anything to get it other than make a phone call and plug their television into the wall jack. Not nearly everyone could subscribe to satellite if they wanted to--lots of people living in apartment and condo complexes can't mount an antenna on the roof and don't have a balcony or patio with the proper exposure. Even some folks with homes on private lots are surrounded by too much high foliage to successfully use DBS. Many people who could switch to DBS aren't sufficiently dissatisfied with what they're getting to bother investigating the alternatives.

Still, cable has been steadily losing market share. I remember that four or five years back nearly 70% of homes passed by cable subscribed to at least basic. Of course, there are 20% more cable passed homes now and sources of competition have increased, with the addition of Verizon FiOS and, more significantly, AT&T U-verse. It's a very complex market picture and TWC's crappy DVR GUI is only a small factor.

Congratulations on your successful conversion!

Glad you like E*. The ViP922 looks interesting. Samsung DVR is still not available in San Diego since it doesn't work with VOD. It was deployed but then it was being put on hold since it doesn't work with VOD. The Samsung HD-STB works fine with VOD.

Success!!! And man I wish I would have done this 4 years ago and not settle for TWC's subpar tech and shenanigans. Anyway, install went really well, put it on back patio, mounted it on a metal gate with pipe clamps that separates my neighbor and I. Super clean install, great tech who had been doing installs in multi units for 6 years. He was able to use just a portion of my existing timewarner run and keep my digital phone and internet, which was a really nice bonus, I didn't want AT&T DSL. So all in all fantastic experience, so far this is LIGHTYEARS ahead of TWC, so hears the rundown so far.

-Much faster, true widescreen guide
-Can filter the guide to just see HD channels
-Can Create a favorite channel listed guide, multiple favorite guides actually and quickly choose which to use.
-Keyword search
-Can watch DVR'd shows on second TV (although not in HD)
-Tricked out my second RF remote for my 722k box to control the extra receiver in bedroom, so I only have to use one remote for everything
-60 hours of HD storage on the 500GB drive
-Can hook up USB drive no problem
-Gonna hook up to my broadband for 1080P movies.
-Picture is phenomenal
-30 second skip forward and back during DVR playback
-4 steps to FF and REW and the first is faster than TWC's step 1
-2 slow motion choices
-Guide tells you the shows original air date
-PiP has 3 size settings including a split screen which is amazing
-Cinemax for a cent a month for a year
-Got the OTA tuner module for the 722k, and OTA antenna on the way to record 4 HD feeds at once
-Remote DVR scheduling from the web or cell phone

So far, I will not miss TWC one bit, any other questions you guys have just let me know I would HIGHLY recommend this, I know this isn't relevant for this thread and I will definitely be in here to check up on you guys. I just can't believe how behind TWC is in the game, they need to really start churning out some better offerings really quick.

Slick,

Did you buy or rent your Dish? Did you have to take a long-term service contract? What did you have to pay for install? What do you pay per month?

Jack

Navigator info for Central New York:

Talked to reps while I was in Clay today about when we will see Navigator. He did know what I was talking about, but couldn't confirm any release date. He did confirm that more employees have begun wider testing and no boxes have been returned yet. All testing is apparently being done on "new" boxes. I asked if they were Samsungs and he said yes. The bigger news was what is supposedly being added to the software and that is online scheduling.The only thing I can say is at least it's being worked on and at least some employees know about it. My prediction is TW will attempt to roll it out by years end, but I don't think we will see full deployment until next year. The rep said it's likely Rochester/Buffalo or Albany will see it first, then our division will follow.

Satch Man...took the 2 year contract, got free install with a 722k DVR and additional 211k HD box, rental for the second box is $7 a month, but there were no up front costs for any of the equipment or installation. The cost is going to be about $63 a month (w/tax) for one year for the silver package and all the HD channels associated with that package, HBO & Showtime free for 3 months, and Cinemax for a penny a year. They are also including the platinum HD pack right now free for life which includes:

BET Jams
Crime and Investigation
Logo
Fashion
Mav TV
MGM
NBA
NHL
HDNET Movies
Universal
World Fishing Network

If you need any more help, let me know!

That is good news ben ....really good news....But does not sound like we will see navigator this year and if that's the case i'll be going elsewhere. :( That 922 from dish network sounds like the route i should take .....More time warner red tape with thumb's up there as---!

Navigator info for Central New York:

Talked to reps while I was in Clay today about when we will see Navigator. He did know what I was talking about, but couldn't confirm any release date. He did confirm that more employees have begun wider testing and no boxes have been returned yet. All testing is apparently being done on "new" boxes. I asked if they were Samsungs and he said yes. The bigger news was what is supposedly being added to the software and that is online scheduling.The only thing I can say is at least it's being worked on and at least some employees know about it. My prediction is TW will attempt to roll it out by years end, but I don't think we will see full deployment until next year. The rep said it's likely Rochester/Buffalo or Albany will see it first, then our division will follow.

That is good news Ben!

But I would have to agree with Abyss that it will be too little too late for him and that he should look at Dish service if Navigator is not on his box by December 31, 2009. This, "Groudwork is all prepared we should have a rollout date soon now." has been going on since April for NYC divisions.

And Slick has given us a wonderful early report for his Dish Network install and performance! So this might be an option. I do contend that at least for my division, Navigator has worked well for the two years that I have had it. With Keyword Search, hopefully coming in the next update and the on-line scheduling being talked about, this is good.

But power users who may want more features and options may want to look at Dish systems or U-Verse over cable, IF cable has been bad for them. At least if Road Runner and Digital Phone from TWC have been good, Slick was able to keep that when he switched to Dish Network.

Jack

That is good news Ben!

But I would have to agree with Abyss that it will be too little too late for him and that he should look at Dish service if Navigator is not on his box by December 31, 2009. This, "Groudwork is all prepared we should have a rollout date soon now." has been going on since April for NYC divisions.

And Slick has given us a wonderful early report for his Dish Network install and performance! So this might be an option. I do contend that at least for my division, Navigator has worked well for the two years that I have had it. With Keyword Search, hopefully coming in the next update and the on-line scheduling being talked about, this is good.

But power users who may want more features and options may want to look at Dish systems or U-Verse over cable, IF cable has been bad for them. At least if Road Runner and Digital Phone from TWC have been good, Slick was able to keep that when he switched to Dish Network.

Jack

Well, I don't really want to jump to satellite because the extra outlets would kill any value. TW seems to always be willing to cut me some promotion when I call to turn off a service. IE: When my $114.95 triple play expires with my $6 HBO and Starz, I'll call to cut the premium channels and ask if they have any specials they can put me into. They usually offer something of value. I would honestly say that if a Tivo Series 4 was deployed, I'd probably already own one provided it worked with all the features.

My box rebooted at 5 am 9/22. VOD has been fixed for the Samsung 3270. ODN is still version 3.1.3.2, but there is no longer an error message under VOD Service Group or ID. I haven't checked anything else since it's late/early, but I'll update tomorrow night if I noticed anything else.

Well, I have more weirdness to report, mostly in case others experience such symptoms, they can at least know they are not alone. Yes, I know what my limited options are, but I really do NOT want a HDC box, but would take a 3090 in a flash... as it appears ODN may not have the issues MDN seems to have.

This upcoming week is loaded to the gills with new series premiers and yes I DO want to sample them all to see what I may want to stick with. So with about 2 hours of HD ON my box, I'm seeing scary looking icons. It seems the MDN logic is to start warning 3 days prior while Passport used 2 days. Of course, here's another example of piss-poor UI, one has to make an additional click to see how long one had (used to be when looking at the list, you knew the time you had left). And it's listed in hours, not days.

Yes, I'm following the advice of leaving series recordings until after they are done to forestall additional hours being recorded. However, I also will cancel network series before watching as they never have repeats to cloud the issue... I gotta only use that trick with cable shows that do frequently repeat and are all tagged as NEW.

AND I read that both my home teams are playing at the same time this weekend, so throw another 4-5 hours into the mix, I'm going to have to break my own "rule" and waste some daytime hours watching stuff... yeah, no really fault of the software, this is all about the extreme lack of flexibility with so little recording space available.

Back to software... while some find their "automatic conflict resolution" helpful, I see mostly land mines. Not once, but twice I have added a new series to see that the software simply deleted without warning a conflicting recording. The first time it happened, I was wondering if something had been deleted... but was busy. The next day, the box did a spontaneous re-boot. NOW it actually showed the conflict. Fixed it by setting a subsequent show to record (of course, there "manual" resolution provides zero help, all one can do is delete one recording, done correctly, it would list alternate recordings allowing me to chose which one to substitute. Then it did the same thing again... simply deleted a recording with no warning or any kind of indication. Fixed the issue.

The REALLY bad news is I had a pal going to the TWC center (he was going there to get a DVR... HDC of course) make some inquires... they only give out 3090s when they have them, they refuse to say when that may be, they will not give out a phone number or have ANY way to "reserve" one. So it's cross your fingers and show up... of course, that costs me 5 bucks out of pocket for public transportation to GET there. Bastards!! I could not only waste a bunch of time, but could spend a lot of money.

Well, I have more weirdness to report, mostly in case others experience such symptoms, they can at least know they are not alone. Yes, I know what my limited options are, but I really do NOT want a HDC box, but would take a 3090 in a flash... as it appears ODN may not have the issues MDN seems to have.The HDC boxes run ODN (locally, they all came running ODN some six months or more before the rolled out MDN on the older boxes).

Man... sorry about your ongoing problems, but I really don't think its an MDN/ODN issue... it's issues with your particular MDN box. A friend of mine here has an MDN 8300, is a heavy-duty series recorder, their box is almost always in the 80-95% full range, and NEVER has issues like you do.

With the sampling of new series in place this week (I currently have 38 series scheduled), I had several conflicts come up. There is a 10pm conflict both tonight and tomorrow night, that inititially left Sons of Anarchy and Leverage with broken record symbols and a listing in the "Conflicts" tab when I added the new season series this weekend. What did I do about them? NOTHING... NOT A THING. The next day I looked at the schedule and the conflicts were no longer listed and Navigator automatically had rescheduled later showings of SoA and Leverage, just as I have come to expect it to.

On the capacity issues... When I scheduled all of this I had about 12 hours of HD already on the drive and also had the Panthers, Jets and Giants games all scheduled to record on Sunday. I never received any space warnings of any type (the load of recordings I had on my 320GB drive have should put me relatively close to the same level of free space that you had on your 160GB drive. I subsequently cleared that backlog out and started the week with only one hour on the drive.

Now... with that all said on the scheduling front... I did have a severe problem (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17221351&postcount=5539) last night, one which appears to be unique to Charlotte and has carried over from last season. In Charlotte, the Samsungs quite often completely and utterly refuse to record WBTV (CBS) and WCCB (FOX). Schedules look good... no conflicts... no overlaps... free tuners... but as soon as the recording should start the REC symbol breaks and no recording occurs. Never happens on any other channels... just CBS and FOX. THAT is getting very old (Charlotte - and NYC - is in dire need of an ODN upgrade from the antique v3.1.0_11)... and an S-A box of any flavor is NOT an option because of the S-A/FOX stuttering sports video issues (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17223916#post17223916).


Well, I have more weirdness to report, mostly in case others experience such symptoms, they can at least know they are not alone. Yes, I know what my limited options are, but I really do NOT want a HDC box, but would take a 3090 in a flash... as it appears ODN may not have the issues MDN seems to have.

This upcoming week is loaded to the gills with new series premiers and yes I DO want to sample them all to see what I may want to stick with. So with about 2 hours of HD ON my box, I'm seeing scary looking icons. It seems the MDN logic is to start warning 3 days prior while Passport used 2 days. Of course, here's another example of piss-poor UI, one has to make an additional click to see how long one had (used to be when looking at the list, you knew the time you had left). And it's listed in hours, not days.

Yes, I'm following the advice of leaving series recordings until after they are done to forestall additional hours being recorded. However, I also will cancel network series before watching as they never have repeats to cloud the issue... I gotta only use that trick with cable shows that do frequently repeat and are all tagged as NEW.

AND I read that both my home teams are playing at the same time this weekend, so throw another 4-5 hours into the mix, I'm going to have to break my own "rule" and waste some daytime hours watching stuff... yeah, no really fault of the software, this is all about the extreme lack of flexibility with so little recording space available.

Back to software... while some find their "automatic conflict resolution" helpful, I see mostly land mines. Not once, but twice I have added a new series to see that the software simply deleted without warning a conflicting recording. The first time it happened, I was wondering if something had been deleted... but was busy. The next day, the box did a spontaneous re-boot. NOW it actually showed the conflict. Fixed it by setting a subsequent show to record (of course, there "manual" resolution provides zero help, all one can do is delete one recording, done correctly, it would list alternate recordings allowing me to chose which one to substitute. Then it did the same thing again... simply deleted a recording with no warning or any kind of indication. Fixed the issue.

The REALLY bad news is I had a pal going to the TWC center (he was going there to get a DVR... HDC of course) make some inquires... they only give out 3090s when they have them, they refuse to say when that may be, they will not give out a phone number or have ANY way to "reserve" one. So it's cross your fingers and show up... of course, that costs me 5 bucks out of pocket for public transportation to GET there. Bastards!! I could not only waste a bunch of time, but could spend a lot of money.

Oh boy, no Leverage. No "conflict" so one would think that "automatic" probably would not work. Cold booted the box and... still not scheduled. Oh wait, didn't it conclude it's season already? It's not showing as "New." Normally I think about you and I being in different markets, but it's national right, so runs same day/time in all domestic markets? Checking... TV Guide says it's this concluded season's initial episode!

Not saying you're wrong about MDN/ODN, but I do find it hard to believe only "my" MDN is misbehaving the way it seems to be doing. Couldn't my local system be a factor (my impression is data may be a lot more dynamic than with Passport... I was watching, a recording was going on when I wanted to check a schedule and the next days was blank)? I am getting zero information from my homies, so it's tough to see if this is 100% unique to ME.

The "warnings" I am getting are for 72 hours... at least in this it's behaving as it should. I have (OMG) 17 hours scheduled for the next 3 days (ugh, how sick am I??).

Am I crazy, doesn't the 8300 HDC only have a MP2 decoder, while the 3090 has both 2 and 4? I SO want a 3090 for the 320 I'd put in... but it's looking like it may cost me MANY days of wasted time AND a bunch of money (~5 bucks to take the suibway down and back).

Oh boy, no Leverage. No "conflict" so one would think that "automatic" probably would not work. Cold booted the box and... still not scheduled. Oh wait, didn't it conclude it's season already? It's not showing as "New." Normally I think about you and I being in different markets, but it's national right, so runs same day/time in all domestic markets? Checking... TV Guide says it's this concluded season's initial episode!

Not saying you're wrong about MDN/ODN, but I do find it hard to believe only "my" MDN is misbehaving the way it seems to be doing. Couldn't my local system be a factor (my impression is data may be a lot more dynamic than with Passport... I was watching, a recording was going on when I wanted to check a schedule and the next days was blank)? I am getting zero information from my homies, so it's tough to see if this is 100% unique to ME.

The "warnings" I am getting are for 72 hours... at least in this it's behaving as it should. I have (OMG) 17 hours scheduled for the next 3 days (ugh, how sick am I??).

Am I crazy, doesn't the 8300 HDC only have a MP2 decoder, while the 3090 has both 2 and 4? I SO want a 3090 for the 320 I'd put in... but it's looking like it may cost me MANY days of wasted time AND a bunch of money (~5 bucks to take the suibway down and back).

Yes... Leverage is national and has concluded, but I missed the beginning of the season so was set for new and repeat for me.

Guide data could be different between systems (I still wonder whether guide data could be part of of the CBS/FOX recording issues here)... but there have have been at least a couple of NYC MDN customer posts that indicate that their boxes are working as intended. The Sammies do have MPEG4, but there's nothing to decode with it just yet... so there is no immediate benefit to having it (of course, you may be trying to save yourself a future subway trip). And don't forget that NYC is running the same "old" version of ODN that Charlotte is... the Sammies have been much less "quirky" in in the divisions running 3.1.1_3 or newer.

The Samsung SMT-H3270 now works with VOD.

As I'm setting things up to record for the fall season, I'm finding that there are problems with the series record priority.

In the series manager, I've got HOUSE > HIMYM > HEROES (all Monday 8:00 shows), but it wants to record HEROES instead of HIMYM. Same goes for Friday night where it's recording THE SOUP instead of PSYCH when PSYCH is the higher priority series.


Is this happening for anybody else, and is there any way to fix it?

As I'm setting things up to record for the fall season, I'm finding that there are problems with the series record priority.

In the series manager, I've got HOUSE > HIMYM > HEROES (all Monday 8:00 shows), but it wants to record HEROES instead of HIMYM. Same goes for Friday night where it's recording THE SOUP instead of PSYCH when PSYCH is the higher priority series.


Is this happening for anybody else, and is there any way to fix it?

USA runs it's shows on oher days/times.I had to move Monk to a later day.

As I'm setting things up to record for the fall season, I'm finding that there are problems with the series record priority.

In the series manager, I've got HOUSE > HIMYM > HEROES (all Monday 8:00 shows), but it wants to record HEROES instead of HIMYM. Same goes for Friday night where it's recording THE SOUP instead of PSYCH when PSYCH is the higher priority series.


Is this happening for anybody else, and is there any way to fix it?

Please think about putting your location, box, software and version in your sig...

I again saw a similar issue to one I posted about last night, created a new series only to see a conflicting existing one simply get deleted without warning as a "scheduled to record show." This time, I flipped the priority list and it then showed up AS a conflict.

The software does have it's "flaky" moments. With all the new series now happening, I'm seeing a lot of exclamation marks indicating when shows will be deleted to make room. Those are based on a fairly simple logic, it looks ahead to see what is scheduled and decides. Yet it is inconsistent in that it may show that warning at 7:30 PM but not at 9:00 PM with absolutely nothing being changed that SHOULD change it.

I'd try moving the priorities around a few times over several hours. It's possible it would then "settle down" and actually do what you want it to.

Navigator is comeing to Greensboro Oct. 6 according to a phone message I got from Time Warner last night. Heres crossing my fingers but the recorded call came out of the blue so heres hopeing. WOODY

Navigator is comeing to Greensboro Oct. 6 according to a phone message I got from Time Warner last night. Heres crossing my fingers but the recorded call came out of the blue so heres hopeing. WOODY

Be careful what you wish for! I was getting anxious as well, and once I got it, I wish I hadn't.

Navigator is comeing to Greensboro Oct. 6 according to a phone message I got from Time Warner last night. Heres crossing my fingers but the recorded call came out of the blue so heres hopeing. WOODY

LOL!!!! No more trips to the cabin, right CW? Hehehehe.

But like I tell everyone in most cases, if you have a good box, wiring, and signal strength, Navigator should work fine. It was good at your cabin, right CW? What box do you have? Mine is an SA:8300 MDN (Version 2.4.6-19)

Jack

Be careful what you wish for! I was getting anxious as well, and once I got it, I wish I hadn't.As Satch Man points out, I think that Crazywoody knows what he's getting, as he has a cabin in another TWC area where they are using Navigator. I think that maybe Greensboro is using SARA on their legacy boxes, over which Navigator is a distinct improvement.

Navigator is comeing to Greensboro Oct. 6 according to a phone message I got from Time Warner last night. Heres crossing my fingers but the recorded call came out of the blue so heres hopeing. WOODY

Is this replacing SARA software? If so, that is a huge step.

Recently got 'Gatored here in NYC (85th Street, East Side). Obviously have tons of growing pains and issues with the new software, much of which has likely been discussed in this thread (I've only read pages 325 and later).

Has anybody found any avenue to provide feedback for improvements to Time Warner? It would seem that the folks here could come up with a list of about 40 items off the top of our heads that should be changed in the next version. Just wondering if anyone has had any luck finding a forum for this type of feedback.

Lastly, has anyone created a 'how Navigator works' FAQ? It would probably be a combination of the tips & tricks, as well as some explanation of how Navigator's more obscure black-box features work (ie: conflict resolution, treatment of multiple New episodes, etc.) I am not the right person to put it together, and I understand that some of the more complicated items are based on people's anecdotal experience, but it would be very helpful as a starting point.

Thanks.

Is this replacing SARA software? If so, that is a huge step.

That would be great if true Ben!!! Hopefully it is, because maybe, just maybe, you might get Gatored by the end of the year!

Jack

Has anybody found any avenue to provide feedback for improvements to Time Warner? It would seem that the folks here could come up with a list of about 40 items off the top of our heads that should be changed in the next version. Just wondering if anyone has had any luck finding a forum for this type of feedback.

Use the on-line "contact us" and ask that your message be sent to the "Navigator Engineering" department or group. The word Engineering seems to work. I even got a reply that that was done versus a generic reply of "we got your message and will take it into consideration". For most local issues, I think a paper letter to the local VP (found on your local TWC website) works best. I get a phone call from an assistant usually within a week. But, for a national thing like Navigator, I am not sure who to write a paper letter to. /Dan

Be careful what you wish for! I was getting anxious as well, and once I got it, I wish I hadn't.

But did you have SARA or Passport?. Passport I understand but to SARA users it is heavensent.

As Satch Man points out, I think that Crazywoody knows what he's getting, as he has a cabin in another TWC area where they are using Navigator. I think that maybe Greensboro is using SARA on their legacy boxes, over which Navigator is a distinct improvement.

YES Mike I am escapeing that sara horror story. Compared to SARA Navigator is like us sara users getting passport. WOODY

LOL!!!! No more trips to the cabin, right CW? Hehehehe.

But like I tell everyone in most cases, if you have a good box, wiring, and signal strength, Navigator should work fine. It was good at your cabin, right CW? What box do you have? Mine is an SA:8300 MDN (Version 2.4.6-19)

Jack

Have a 8300 hd and a 8240hdc. I get to compare odn and mdn. WOODY

But did you have SARA or Passport?. Passport I understand but to SARA users it is heavensent.I know Riverside_Guy from years of participation in the TWC Passport thread.

Recently got 'Gatored here in NYC (85th Street, East Side). Obviously have tons of growing pains and issues with the new software, much of which has likely been discussed in this thread (I've only read pages 325 and later).

Has anybody found any avenue to provide feedback for improvements to Time Warner? It would seem that the folks here could come up with a list of about 40 items off the top of our heads that should be changed in the next version. Just wondering if anyone has had any luck finding a forum for this type of feedback.

Lastly, has anyone created a 'how Navigator works' FAQ? It would probably be a combination of the tips & tricks, as well as some explanation of how Navigator's more obscure black-box features work (ie: conflict resolution, treatment of multiple New episodes, etc.) I am not the right person to put it together, and I understand that some of the more complicated items are based on people's anecdotal experience, but it would be very helpful as a starting point.

Thanks.

Oh boy, I have been having significant issues which are detailed in the past several weeks, especially as it relates to series recordings. Apparently it all seems to stem from a method of conflict resolution that some apparently like but I find as god awful as it could be, just from a software design standard (tagging ALL episodes as NEW for cable shows that repeat first run episodes). If there is a conflict, it will automatically schedule the next showing.

Apparently, it demands some totally new PIA methodologies to be employed to work around the issue of it ending up recording the same show over and over. I have very diligently been following that advice to the letter. While they seem to work fine on ODN, they simply do NOT work at all for me. For at least 3 series, I let it record the initial run, delete it and it still schedules a repeat of it.

It was suggested this was an issue that was unique to me only. BUT as it seemed very consistent, I found that somewhat hard to believe... rarely does software work this way, essentially having significant bugs, for only one of thousands of users. BUT it seemed to me I was the ONLY 8300HD/MDN in NYC person who was talking about this, I don't recall anyone replaying to me saying they did NOT see this issue. I chalked that up to the fact that maybe not everyone was as heavily invested in series recordings.

HOWEVER, I DO thank jcalabria who has expended time and MANY digital bits trying to help me address the issue... I'd be really lost if he wasn't patient in responding to my rants.

Welllllll, now I seem to see a new issue. Have to be out at a board meeting tonight, so I had to check the schedule to see if everything will work. I see Grey's listed as a conflict. Odd, I had moved Sunny to record the 11 PM show. Craptigator decided to cancel that recording and move it back to 10. OK, following jcalabria's advice, I change the priority of Sunny, so IT is the show that gets "conflict resolved automatically" to the 11 PM showing.

Only it doesn't. It "stays" at 10 PM and Greys will NOT record. Can't delete the 10 PM Sunny, I go through several moves in the priority list to wake it up, several box reboots. Nothing. Finally I cancel the series for Sunny totally.

The damn thing is STILL there! No matter what I try and do, I can NOT stop it from recording Sunny at 10. It looks like my ONLY choice is to cancel the 10 PM Mentalist (which does NOT repeat). AND I also better cancel the Mentalist series recording as well, as it will probably decide to bring it back (Grey's is set to the highest priority, first on the list, so it HAS to be Sunny that is forcing the conflict in the first place since Grey's is higher priority than Greys)). At least I CAN get it via a torrent site.

Of course I can go get an ODN box. Problem is I do NOT want a HDC, I ONLY want the 3090. BUT to accomplish that, it seems I have to be prepared to make weekly trips to 23rd street on the off chance I might get such a box. They refuse to "reserve" one, they refuse to allow anyone to call and see if they are in stock. It could be weeks and weeks, not only killing half a day each time, but costing me almost 5 bucks each time in subway fare.

But did you have SARA or Passport?. Passport I understand but to SARA users it is heavensent.

You are probably correct, Passport had it's own set of issues, but nothing even close to how dysfunctional Craptigator is for me.

...
OK, following jcalabria's advice, I change the priority of Sunny, so IT is the show that gets "conflict resolved automatically" to the 11 PM showing.

Only it doesn't. It "stays" at 10 PM and Greys will NOT record. Can't delete the 10 PM Sunny, I go through several moves in the priority list to wake it up, several box reboots. Nothing. Finally I cancel the series for Sunny totally.

The damn thing is STILL there! No matter what I try and do, I can NOT stop it from recording Sunny at 10.
...


And this does not strike you as a very odd behavior? If this was happening to anybody else in this forum, they'd be posting, believe me. This is your box gone crazy.

Also, why not take HDC as a temporary solution until they got enough Samsungs? It will be an upgrade over what you have. Get it in addition to your box for a few days to try it (they prorate the fees). You might find it not that excessively slow, it has less bugs than Samsung, and no forcing of stretched guide on you. Can't do 320GB, though.

Guys, it seems many may conclude I'm some sort or raving lunatic, but I HAVE been very involved in varied aspects of software development for MANY years (I think the only area I have not done is write the actual code, although I have written code, so I do have some familiarity with that process) so I think I come from more rather than less actual knowledge. I've been pretty specific describing exact circumstances mostly in a hope that someone else sees or does not see the exact same thing (by that I mean 8300HD/MDN in NYC mostly).

As such, I'm finding it hard to believe that this is somehow unique and specific to only me and nobody else. I AM very aware of the history of this so-called software and find my issues at one point typical of issues that in the past have also affected some differently than others. I have ALWAYS seen issues like this to be attributable to badly written software.

Anyway, I will try and not monopolize so much of this thread going forward.

Guys, it seems many may conclude I'm some sort or raving lunatic, but I HAVE been very involved in varied aspects of software development for MANY years (I think the only area I have not done is write the actual code, although I have written code, so I do have some familiarity with that process) so I think I come from more rather than less actual knowledge. I've been pretty specific describing exact circumstances mostly in a hope that someone else sees or does not see the exact same thing (by that I mean 8300HD/MDN in NYC mostly).

As such, I'm finding it hard to believe that this is somehow unique and specific to only me and nobody else. I AM very aware of the history of this so-called software and find my issues at one point typical of issues that in the past have also affected some differently than others. I have ALWAYS seen issues like this to be attributable to badly written software.

Anyway, I will try and not monopolize so much of this thread going forward.

I don't remotely think you're a raving lunatic, but if you don't swap your box for something... ANYTHING else, your current unit may just send you there.:p

Hey guys... i think i might just see this time warner to navigator transition thru after all due to the fact that you lose alot of channels .... our division does not support many of them with cable card . I was told last night that the legacy boxes are what's holding up our transition over to the much maligned navigator. Once it's set in stone that it should be a smooth and fast transition. Here' hoping they get that LEGACY ISSUE FIGURED OUT !!!!!:rolleyes:

Hey guys... i think i might just see this time warner to navigator transition thru after all due to the fact that you lose alot of channels .... our division does not support many of them with cable card . I was told last night that the legacy boxes are what's holding up our transition over to the much maligned navigator. Once it's set in stone that it should be a smooth and fast transition. Here' hoping they get that LEGACY ISSUE FIGURED OUT !!!!!:rolleyes:

The only channels you lose are PPV and VOD. With a tuning adapter you will get all the SDV channels. I could probably let go of the VOD, but the PPV not so much.

Is the tuning adapter free ben ? PPV and VOD are not issue for me though in the living room. Alot of the stuff i could dvr don't you think ?:confused: Question if i subscribe to the on demands what would happen then would i discontinue them if i got a tivo?

Is the tuning adapter free ben ? PPV and VOD are not issue for me though in the living room. Alot of the stuff i could dvr don't you think ?:confused: Question if i subscribe to the on demands what would happen then would i discontinue them if i got a tivo?

On Deamnd channels have been included in the base price for awhile now so nothing happens if you go to Tivo. Yes, Time Warner provides the tuning adapter free of charge, but you will have to pay CableCard fees on the Tivo and it may require a tech come out to install said cards.

will there be a charge for the tech coming out ?:(



this is awesome: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xopAAx_vaiA



Ben you should be a salesmen for tivo !!!!!

I don't remotely think you're a raving lunatic, but if you don't swap your box for something... ANYTHING else, your current unit may just send you there.:p
Please swap the box for a 8300hdc and save your sanity. Normal Navigator does not act as your box does. I belive its your box not you that is insane. WOODY

Please swap the box for a 8300hdc and save your sanity. Normal Navigator does not act as your box does. I believe its your box not you that is insane. WOODY

I would have to second what Woody is saying. As you know Riverside, look at the improvements when you made that wiring issue change by getting those signal splitters out! I hope and really think a new HDC box or a new Samsung will solve your series recording issues. If THAT doesn't work, you can do what I did years ago, I had an issue with a box and called TWC and actually arranged for a technical operations supervisor to come to my home.

I made a list of what the problems were and he helped me out with understanding some features. This would be your backup if the new box still doesn't work. That way, someone in charge can see what's happening, maybe explain why it's happening and just say, "I have had an MDN box and on ODN box and they are both doing the same thing."

But hopefully it is an issue with the box and we be resolved with a new model.

Jack

Guys, it seems many may conclude I'm some sort or raving lunatic, but I HAVE been very involved in varied aspects of software development for MANY years (I think the only area I have not done is write the actual code, although I have written code, so I do have some familiarity with that process) so I think I come from more rather than less actual knowledge. I've been pretty specific describing exact circumstances mostly in a hope that someone else sees or does not see the exact same thing (by that I mean 8300HD/MDN in NYC mostly).

As such, I'm finding it hard to believe that this is somehow unique and specific to only me and nobody else. I AM very aware of the history of this so-called software and find my issues at one point typical of issues that in the past have also affected some differently than others. I have ALWAYS seen issues like this to be attributable to badly written software.

Anyway, I will try and not monopolize so much of this thread going forward.

Just so you know, I have pretty much exactly the same setup as you (8300HD/MDN/NYC) and I have NONE of your problems (thank goodness). My box handles new episodes vs. old perfectly and doesn't seem to exhibit any odd behavior. I am on a different head end: Greenwich Village, but otherwise our setups seem identical. Oops, one more difference, I have an external drive on my box.

-barry

I haven't had any issues thus far.

This is the problem I have with this HD DVR. (8300HDC, Mystro, Brighthouse Network, Altamonte Springs, FL)

Keep in mind that I have already replaced this unit about three weeks ago for another one.

The first week of NFL arrived at everything was normal until FOX was airing Redskins/Giants game. As soon as that broadcast began, this “choppiness/stutter” signal started. I could barely see or hear the game. I initially thought it was the signal from FOX. (I even went to a thread here in this website and people were complaining for the same thing, so I left it at that).

But then, I switched to NBC for Sunday Night Football and it was still doing it. I kept changing channels to see if all my HD channels were having same issue, but only a few (not all of them). So I decided to unplug unit, wait 30 seconds, plug it back and that fixed problem. I thought that was it, problem fixed.

Ever since that day, I don’t know what’s wrong with my HD DVR. From time to time, It seems a HD channel (Discovery HD, A&E HD, TLC HD, History HD, etc) would have this “choppiness” signal. I even DVR’d some shows and it would record this signal as well (even though the channel was working fine after that).

I am getting tired of unplugging unit, wait a minute, then plug it back again to fix problem.

What I don’t understand why is it that only a few channels do this and not ALL of them? (even the non-HD channels)

I was hoping to see whoever reads this can help me figure this out, or if someone has had this same issue or close to it.

I can ask Brighthouse to send a technician and try to fix it, but my concern is that at the moment this technician arrives at my apartment, all channels could be working OK.

(By the way, I have another HD DVR in my living room, and it has never given me this problem)

Don’t know if it’s the cable I have. If it’s dirty, old, etc.

Anyone?

(By the way, I have another HD DVR in my living room, and it has never given me this problem)

Don’t know if it’s the cable I have. If it’s dirty, old, etc.

Anyone?

are both DVR's the same model?
id swap the DVR's between rooms and see if it still happens. see if the problem follows the box or stays with the cable. should tell you if its the box or not.

are both DVR's the same model?
id swap the DVR's between rooms and see if it still happens. see if the problem follows the box or stays with the cable. should tell you if its the box or not.

The only problem with that is that my father in law uses that HD DVR for his TV.

I can take it and put it in my room, but since I am connecting another box, there won't be any problems (it's like unplugging unit, wait 30 seconds, and plug it again).

Then I have to wait until the problem returns, which doesn't have any timeframe.

Sometimes it happens right away, but the majority of time, it returns hours or even a day after the box is on.

And this does not strike you as a very odd behavior? If this was happening to anybody else in this forum, they'd be posting, believe me. This is your box gone crazy.

Also, why not take HDC as a temporary solution until they got enough Samsungs? It will be an upgrade over what you have. Get it in addition to your box for a few days to try it (they prorate the fees). You might find it not that excessively slow, it has less bugs than Samsung, and no forcing of stretched guide on you. Can't do 320GB, though.

As I tried to explain, I was muddling through until I cold find a way to increase the chances for getting what I want... but not being able to even delete a recording to resolve a conflict certainly is a tipping point.

Nothing at all unusual about only one person even making an attempt to help out though... I guess nobody can even attempt any reason how this can can happen besides "the box going crazy." Yeah, it's all voodoo.

I don't remotely think you're a raving lunatic, but if you don't swap your box for something... ANYTHING else, your current unit may just send you there.:p

The last incident certainly is a tipping point... I guess I was also looking for some logic as to how this can happen in the first place, I generally find it difficult to believe in mysterious voodoo in hard/software... as I actually still remember being taught the scientific method in grade school.

You might find it interesting that in my market, the same issue does happen to others and that the advise I got was to always set series recordings to ONLY the original broadcast times.

Please swap the box for a 8300hdc and save your sanity. Normal Navigator does not act as your box does. I belive its your box not you that is insane. WOODY

Thanks Woody, looks like muddling through until I could find a way to actually increase the chances of getting what I want won't be as easy I had thought, given locked in recordings I can't delete.

I just find "the box going crazy" to be far too mysterious for my taste... there has to be an actual reason, but it's looking like I can't get even close to it!

Just so you know, I have pretty much exactly the same setup as you (8300HD/MDN/NYC) and I have NONE of your problems (thank goodness). My box handles new episodes vs. old perfectly and doesn't seem to exhibit any odd behavior. I am on a different head end: Greenwich Village, but otherwise our setups seem identical. Oops, one more difference, I have an external drive on my box.

-barry

Ah... I think someone else in your head end said he had similar issues that he ameliorated by setting it to the time of first run. For 3+ years the same box ran perfectly under Passport, so it's difficult to believe the hardware is causing this. UNLESS someone knows for sure it has an EEPROM...

Ah... I think someone else in your head end said he had similar issues that he ameliorated by setting it to the time of first run. For 3+ years the same box ran perfectly under Passport, so it's difficult to believe the hardware is causing this. UNLESS someone knows for sure it has an EEPROM...

I don't think anybody thinks your hardware suddenly went bad (I certainly don't)... but a corrupted MDN installation/conversion could be possible. I wish I knew how to force a complete operating system reload in the 8300s (I do in the Sammie - Factory Reset option in the Samsung extended diagnostics menu performs a compete Navigator download and reinstallation on the next boot)... that would be a good thing to try in your case.

Question... and I may have asked this before, so forgive me if we have discussed it: Since you were 'gatored, have you ever completely deleted ALL schedules and series, rebooted the box, and then rebuilt the series schedules completely from scratch with no remnants of converted schedules and/or series in the mix?

This is the problem I have with this HD DVR. (8300HDC, Mystro, Brighthouse Network, Altamonte Springs, FL)

Keep in mind that I have already replaced this unit about three weeks ago for another one.

The first week of NFL arrived at everything was normal until FOX was airing Redskins/Giants game. As soon as that broadcast began, this “choppiness/stutter” signal started. I could barely see or hear the game. I initially thought it was the signal from FOX. (I even went to a thread here in this website and people were complaining for the same thing, so I left it at that).

But then, I switched to NBC for Sunday Night Football and it was still doing it. I kept changing channels to see if all my HD channels were having same issue, but only a few (not all of them). So I decided to unplug unit, wait 30 seconds, plug it back and that fixed problem. I thought that was it, problem fixed.

Ever since that day, I don’t know what’s wrong with my HD DVR. From time to time, It seems a HD channel (Discovery HD, A&E HD, TLC HD, History HD, etc) would have this “choppiness” signal. I even DVR’d some shows and it would record this signal as well (even though the channel was working fine after that).

I am getting tired of unplugging unit, wait a minute, then plug it back again to fix problem.

What I don’t understand why is it that only a few channels do this and not ALL of them? (even the non-HD channels)

I was hoping to see whoever reads this can help me figure this out, or if someone has had this same issue or close to it.

I can ask Brighthouse to send a technician and try to fix it, but my concern is that at the moment this technician arrives at my apartment, all channels could be working OK.

(By the way, I have another HD DVR in my living room, and it has never given me this problem)

Don’t know if it’s the cable I have. If it’s dirty, old, etc.

Anyone?

We had an issue with our All in One Package (Digital Phone would drop off calls, Internet would go down and come back unpredictably, and our Navigator box would reboot often.) The problem turned out to be signal strength and too much voltage coming in at one point on the line. We had the line replaced.

Navigator is VERY FUSSY about signal strength and line-strength coming both into your home from the drop-pole and the signal being outputted to and from your TV and cable box. If your lines are very old OR if your cable connections have signal splitters in them, this can cause all kind of reception problems, box reboots, line-problems, and so on.

You need to call Brighthouse Networks and SPECIFICALLY request that an IN-HOUSE TECHNICIAN, (NOT AN INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR) be sent to your home to check for three things:

1.) Signal strength connections outside your home.

2.) Signal strength inside the home, especially the cable going to and from your TV and cable box.

3.) The overall quality of your wiring and cable line.

The independent contracts for the most part are dolts, and will probably just show up with a box replacement, which is not going to fix your problem. When you call, insist on an in-house tech, and signal and line checks to be examined by him. You may have a signal coming in especially on those affected channels that is outside of TWC acceptable signal ranges.

If you have very old wiring either inside or outside the home that is like 15-30 years old, you will have these problems. Show the Brighthouse Tech the specific channels on which the problems are occurring and in your case, tell him that the problem relates only to those channels. He can do wiring and line replacements that should get your signal back to quality levels across the board. Let us know how that works out!

Jack

We had an issue with our All in One Package (Digital Phone would drop off calls, Internet would go down and come back unpredictably, and our Navigator box would reboot often.) The problem turned out to be signal strength and too much voltage coming in at one point on the line. We had the line replaced.

Navigator is VERY FUSSY about signal strength and line-strength coming both into your home from the drop-pole and the signal being outputted to and from your TV and cable box. If your lines are very old OR if your cable connections have signal splitters in them, this can cause all kind of reception problems, box reboots, line-problems, and so on.

You need to call Brighthouse Networks and SPECIFICALLY request that an IN-HOUSE TECHNICIAN, (NOT AN INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR) be sent to your home to check for three things:

1.) Signal strength connections outside your home.

2.) Signal strength inside the home, especially the cable going to and from your TV and cable box.

3.) The overall quality of your wiring and cable line.

The independent contracts for the most part are dolts, and will probably just show up with a box replacement, which is not going to fix your problem. When you call, insist on an in-house tech, and signal and line checks to be examined by him. You may have a signal coming in especially on those affected channels that is outside of TWC acceptable signal ranges.

If you have very old wiring either inside or outside the home that is like 15-30 years old, you will have these problems. Show the Brighthouse Tech the specific channels on which the problems are occurring and in your case, tell him that the problem relates only to those channels. He can do wiring and line replacements that should get your signal back to quality levels across the board. Let us know how that works out!

Jack

Jack,

I really appreciate your input and I will follow your advice. Everything you said makes perfect sense and perhaps this fix this problem once and for all. And I'll let you know how it went.

Thanks!

Question... and I may have asked this before, so forgive me if we have discussed it: Since you were 'gatored, have you ever completely deleted ALL schedules and series, rebooted the box, and then rebuilt the series schedules completely from scratch with no remnants of converted schedules and/or series in the mix?

No... but I have deleted and re-did all of the ones I noticed issues with. Somehow, I'm getting an impression that it MIGHT be that certain data is held in memory and gets wiped during a reboot; twice I've notice "not needed" duplicates being scheduled following a reboot. Still, the "not able to stop" recording seems a tipping point, I'll have to mull over wiping all series and re-doing them now, I seem to have 61 of them! Obviously, if a swap boxes I'd have to do that as well (indeed I probably am over-thinking this, but that's also part of my psyche, I feel compelled to arrive at some conclusions that make sense to me).

Navigator is VERY FUSSY about signal strength and line-strength coming both into your home from the drop-pole and the signal being outputted to and from your TV and cable box. If your lines are very old OR if your cable connections have signal splitters in them, this can cause all kind of reception problems, box reboots, line-problems, and so on.This is profoundly counterintuitive. Navigator shouldn't be any more sensitive to signal strength than SARA or Passport, since none of that would be handled in IPG-level code. For all video display and FDC/RDC functions, I'd expect it to use underlying RTOS and middleware routines which would also be used by the other IPGs.

No... but I have deleted and re-did all of the ones I noticed issues with. Somehow, I'm getting an impression that it MIGHT be that certain data is held in memory and gets wiped during a reboot; twice I've notice "not needed" duplicates being scheduled following a reboot. Still, the "not able to stop" recording seems a tipping point, I'll have to mull over wiping all series and re-doing them now, I seem to have 61 of them! Obviously, if a swap boxes I'd have to do that as well (indeed I probably am over-thinking this, but that's also part of my psyche, I feel compelled to arrive at some conclusions that make sense to me).

I agree with your last statement.
If you don't know what the problem is, it's very hard to implement a fix - trial and error is a very poor problem solving method.

This is profoundly counterintuitive. Navigator shouldn't be any more sensitive to signal strength than SARA or Passport, since none of that would be handled in IPG-level code. For all video display and FDC/RDC functions, I'd expect it to use underlying RTOS and middleware routines which would also be used by the other IPGs.

Yet some anecdotal evidence points that way. It could easily be that the Navigator's error handling when calling the same routines as SARA or Passport is not as good. Maybe some pf those routines expect/output certain flag values that are ignored/not set properly by Navigator. Maybe Navigator times out quicker waiting for the replies from the same routines. Maybe it forgets to time out and just sits there. A lot of things could go wrong.

I got a 3270 yesterday and it's a nice unit. I do need to hook it up to a HDTV since that SDTV has a somewhat broken composite input. It's a nice DVR and it has a 320 GB HDD. All 3270's have a 320 GB HDD. It's the same unit as the 3090 which is a Seagate Pipeline HD unit. I have the manual. It looks like a bigger 3260 but with a DVR function. It also has a front USB port. I got a new 2 year deal with Standard internet at 10/1, 2 HD-DVR's, 2 HD-STB's, HD VIP pack, and all Premiums for a little over $30 less. It's a nice package and I get all premiums. Since U-verse doesn't fit our needs I decided to keep TWC. The 3270 is black and it will attract finger prints.

I exchanged my 4250HDC for another SMT-H3260 and I used HDMI instead of Component. I checked out the diagnostics and it supports HDMI v1.3 and it can support AC3 over HDMI without needing to go into that menu. The 3270 also supports HDMI v1.3. That 3260 said MoCA on boot which means a multi room DVR is a possibility some day.

Finally the 3270 came with a DTV transition notice which was kind of weird. Both the 3260 and 3270 lack an Analog tuner since I can't access CH. 95 which is an analog test pattern.

I also have all 4 digital packs minus the Spanish one.

Does anyone know a rollout of the new samsung boxes? Maybe know when they will be available in Kansas City area and if they will have the 320gb HD?

Where are you located that you have all these interesting boxes?


-barry

I got a 3270 yesterday and it's a nice unit. I do need to hook it up to a HDTV since that SDTV has a somewhat broken composite input. It's a nice DVR and it has a 320 GB HDD. All 3270's have a 320 GB HDD. It's the same unit as the 3090 which is a Seagate Pipeline HD unit. I have the manual. It looks like a bigger 3260 but with a DVR function. It also has a front USB port. I got a new 2 year deal with Standard internet at 10/1, 2 HD-DVR's, 2 HD-STB's, HD VIP pack, and all Premiums for a little over $30 less. It's a nice package and I get all premiums. Since U-verse doesn't fit our needs I decided to keep TWC. The 3270 is black and it will attract finger prints.

I exchanged my 4250HDC for another SMT-H3260 and I used HDMI instead of Component. I checked out the diagnostics and it supports HDMI v1.3 and it can support AC3 over HDMI without needing to go into that menu. The 3270 also supports HDMI v1.3. That 3260 said MoCA on boot which means a multi room DVR is a possibility some day.

Finally the 3270 came with a DTV transition notice which was kind of weird. Both the 3260 and 3270 lack an Analog tuner since I can't access CH. 95 which is an analog test pattern.

Where are you located that you have all these interesting boxes?


-barryHe's here in San Diego (which is only occasionally very hot and dry :)).

Both boxes have a few bugs here and there. The nice thing is that the 3270 only comes in a 320 GB HDD version. It's very similar to the 3090 hardware wise. The 32xx boxes have a BCM7405 while the 3090 has a BCM7400. They all have 256 MB of RAM while the 3050 uses 128 MB of RAM. There is also a SMT-H3090B/TWC and BHN. There is a BHN 3270 which means Brighthouse might deploy them in certain areas. I think areas that have ODN v3.1.3_2 are getting the 32xx boxes. TWC San Diego and Desert Cities are the only divisions that have these boxes. No other division has them yet.

My box was updated to ODN 3.1.3_2 last night. The Samsung software was bumped to 2.4.9.3 (was 2.4.9.2).

The only immediately noticeable difference is that Item 14 in the Samsung Extended Diagnostics Menu, the infamous "Enable AC3 over HDMI", is no longer on the menu. I'll have to reconnect my HDMI output to see if its permanently enabled now.

My box was updated to ODN 3.1.3_2 last night. The Samsung software was bumped to 2.4.9.3 (was 2.4.9.2).

The only immediately noticeable difference is that Item 14 in the Samsung Extended Diagnostics Menu, the infamous "Enable AC3 over HDMI", is no longer on the menu. I'll have to reconnect my HDMI output to see if its permanently enabled now.

Did they by any chance fix eSATA problem?

Did they by any chance fix eSATA problem?

Haven't checked anything beyond a 5 minute run thru this morning.

The Samsung 32xx boxes have no AC3 over HDMI but they do support it by not having to into that menu.

There is also a Samsung SMT-AH700A/TWC. The 3090B is only for BHN. 2 versions of the 3050 for both BHN and TWC. 3050 and 3050E.

I guess late last night TWC NEO enabled StartOver

I guess late last night TWC NEO enabled StartOver

It's limited to a few select channels right now. Almost like they are just testing it right now.

It's limited to a few select channels right now. Almost like they are just testing it right now.

And I don't think I've watched a single Start Over-enabled channel since it was introduced here something like 8 months ago.

Completely useless.

And I don't think I've watched a single Start Over-enabled channel since it was introduced here something like 8 months ago.

Completely useless.

It's only on SD channels here... which makes it pretty useless to me, too.

It's only on SD channels here... which makes it pretty useless to me, too.

They only have Start Over on the SD channels here as well. I use it sometimes when the corresponding show is not in HD on the HD channel. It's a poor-man's VOD. Nice that you can start over a show in the middle, but most know the limitations of it:

1.) You cannot FF through commercials.

2.) You can only activate Start Over for the duration of a show's LIVE broadcast.

3.) If you pause and your show ends on the live call, you can not go back to watch what you missed. The only exception (and I have not tested this!) might be if you have not changed channels or turned off the cable box, I think you can buffer back to a show and start over even on a non Start-Over enabled channel up to 90 minutes back. (Hitting RR 3x on the box.)

4.) If you are DVR'ing the show, Start Over becomes inoperable.

Sometimes Start Over shows up. When it does, it works. Other times you get the Enhanced Menu without Start Over.

Jack

They only have Start Over on the SD channels here as well. I use it sometimes when the corresponding show is not in HD on the HD channel. It's a poor-man's VOD. Nice that you can start over a show in the middle, but most know the limitations of it:

1.) You cannot FF through commercials.

2.) You can only activate Start Over for the duration of a show's LIVE broadcast.

3.) If you pause and your show ends on the live call, you can not go back to watch what you missed. The only exception (and I have not tested this!) might be if you have not changed channels or turned off the cable box, I think you can buffer back to a show and start over even on a non Start-Over enabled channel up to 90 minutes back. (Hitting RR 3x on the box.)

4.) If you are DVR'ing the show, Start Over becomes inoperable.

Sometimes Start Over shows up. When it does, it works. Other times you get the Enhanced Menu without Start Over.

Jack

I just love the "enhanced menu" on the HBO & SHO multiplex channels... I know what channels I'm paying for... if you're gonna annoy me with a popup, at least make it list the current movie showing on the other channels.

I have also seen on occasion popups on ESPN and CNN listing current VOD stories and clips... seemed like more of an experiment/test than anything else... but if made regularly available that could be a viable use for it.

It's only on SD channels here... which makes it pretty useless to me, too.

It's just another shareholder check box.

"See, we introduced our unique Start Over feature to another market! No other cable company has that. Time Warner Cable leads the way again!"

<clap clap clap>

Once that check box is marked they can then safely ignore advancing it and move on to half-heartedly rolling out something else.

It's just another shareholder check box.

"See, we introduced our unique Start Over feature to another market! No other cable company has that. Time Warner Cable leads the way again!"

<clap clap clap>

Once that check box is marked they can then safely ignore advancing it and move on to half-heartedly rolling out something else.

Absolutely agree... back when I was in the business we used to joke about how TW's (and a few others') technology announcements were often more about pushing its stock price than about anything substantive. Now... that's not to say that they never did/do anything worthwhile... but enough of their big splashes have subsequently fallen by the wayside in the past to see that pattern.

re: series priority.

series one has higher priority than series two? or vise versa?

if you add a series, it becomes one and may cause a conflict. but the new series is a cable show with more than one showing, so i move it down in the list. does the box update it self automatically or do you have to cancel the recording and hope the box add the second showing to record?

my box seems to do didfferent thing at different times.

thnx.

Oh boy, oh boy, TWC REALLY wants to complicate my life... they just shoved MDN 2.4.6.21 in the middle of the night, OF COURSE interrupting my recording of the Ken Burns masterpiece into 2 segments. Looks like 11 minutes was lost, at least according to the data.

Also looks like the business of the display NOT showing the time when the box is off (and set to channel always) has not been addressed.

Time will tell about any other issues...

Oh boy, oh boy, TWC REALLY wants to complicate my life... they just shoved MDN 2.4.6.21 in the middle of the night, OF COURSE interrupting my recording of the Ken Burns masterpiece into 2 segments. Looks like 11 minutes was lost, at least according to the data.

Also looks like the business of the display NOT showing the time when the box is off (and set to channel always) has not been addressed.

Time will tell about any other issues...

That's a really quick cycle from _19... especially since _19 had been working pretty well in most locations... and ESPECIALLY since they left the buggy ODN 3.1.0_11 running so darn long in NYC & Charlotte before they (just) updated it to 3.1.3_2.

Seems like TW is on a major software rollout kick this week.

That's a really quick cycle from _19... especially since _19 had been working pretty well in most locations... and ESPECIALLY since they left the buggy ODN 3.1.0_11 running so darn long before they just updated it to 3.1.3_2 (as they did down here as well).

Seems like TW is on a major software rollout kick this week.

Keyword Search and Manual Recording???????

Well, I don't think we will see that until MDN 3.0. But let's give them credit for once on a quick update. Usually with an update that fast, they must have needed to fix a bad bug in MDN 2.4.6-19.

Post if you see any changes or new features.

Jack

You know San Diego only updates to major MDN versions. They usually don't deploy the minor inbetween releases. Maybe they'll deploy MDN v2.4.6-19. San Diego was the first to get ODN3 but they quickly updated v3.1.0_7 to v3.1.0_11. They were also the first to get v3.1.3_2 but not the first to get v3.1.1_3.

You know San Diego only updates to major MDN versions. They usually don't deploy the minor in-between releases. Maybe they'll deploy MDN v2.4.6-19. San Diego was the first to get ODN3 but they quickly updated v3.1.0_7 to v3.1.0_11. They were also the first to get v3.1.3_2 but not the first to get v3.1.1_3.

Actually,

San Diego already has MDN 2.4.6-19. according to the TWC San Diego forums. They and North Carolina got it and than about three weeks later, we got it in Wisconsin. So now the question is do they deploy the new MDN 2.4.6-21? It appears that NYC skipped MDN 2.4.6-19 going from -16 to -21. We went from -15 to -19.

TWC is changing our Digital line up so that all Digital stations above 100 are organized into themes on October 13th. (Along with some new channels and about 10 or more HD channels before the end of the year. They sent lists.)

I don't know how much or little a Navigator update on any version MDN or ODN would influence channel line-up changes. I suppose that would depend on what bugs are fixed or features added with the new update.

I agree that this is the fastest update from one version to the next that some divisions have ever done.

Jack

I meant v2.4.6-19.

I have a problem keeping 5.1 DD audio thru Toslink from cb (wants to default back to stereo).

Equip:
Scientific Atlanta 8300HDC cable box w/ Mystro firmware
TWC - Kansas City
Sharp LC-52D64U TV
Denon AVR-3802 Rec
HDMI from cable box to TV
Toslink cable from cable box to receiver

I get 5.1 audio to receiver after I go into cable box menu: menu/settings/devices/audio:digital audio/dolby digital/exit

The only problem is whenever I change the TV input (xbox, dvd, etc) and go back to cable, the 5.1 switches back to stereo. So then I have to go back and repeat the settings thing to get 5.1.

I tried Toslink from TV to receiver and only get stereo.

The funny thing is that it only started doing this after a firmware change 4-5 months ago. I called up TWC and they said that it was probably a handshake issue. I haven't bothered to have them come out to see if they can fix it. I don't really want to change out box since I have some cool stuff recorded.

Any ideas?

re: series priority.

series one has higher priority than series two? or vise versa?

if you add a series, it becomes one and may cause a conflict. but the new series is a cable show with more than one showing, so i move it down in the list. does the box update it self automatically or do you have to cancel the recording and hope the box add the second showing to record?

my box seems to do didfferent thing at different times.

thnx.

Looks like ODN and MDN are doing the same thing. I have seen inconsistent behavior as you may have. I have moved a priority down and seen a subsequent show get scheduled and I have seen that NOT have the expected effect.

Yes, shows high up the list take precedence over those farther down the llst.

Actually,

San Diego already has MDN 2.4.6-19. according to the TWC San Diego forums. They and North Carolina got it and than about three weeks later, we got it in Wisconsin. So now the question is do they deploy the new MDN 2.4.6-21? It appears that NYC skipped MDN 2.4.6-19 going from -16 to -21. We went from -15 to -19.

TWC is changing our Digital line up so that all Digital stations above 100 are organized into themes on October 13th. (Along with some new channels and about 10 or more HD channels before the end of the year. They sent lists.)

I don't know how much or little a Navigator update on any version MDN or ODN would influence channel line-up changes. I suppose that would depend on what bugs are fixed or features added with the new update.

I agree that this is the fastest update from one version to the next that some divisions have ever done.

Jack

You know there is a possibility that if only certain divisions got this MDN 2.4.6-21 update that this could relate to the SARA IPG being replaced on the boxes with Navigator. Someone did post (With a SARA division) that October 6th was a date for Navigator download! Maybe finally, there is some good news coming for Ben and Abyss!!! And Woody won't have to go to the cabin anymore! LOL!

But as is typical of any of these updates, we don't know what they fix or change until new features and services show up on the screen and are tested.

My MDN 2.4.6-19 box works great and I also should report that the Caller ID bug showing up in the Menu that North Carolina areas/San Diego reported on some boxes has been removed. (It never was there in my division.) Caller ID screens remain in the Settings Menu like before.

Jack

The Samsung 3270 has no PIP for now. I think this is a bug they're trying to fix. Bob Barlow of course said that the 3270 is still has some bugs that they need to fix.

The Samsung 3270 has no PIP for now. I think this is a bug they're trying to fix. Bob Barlow of course said that the 3270 is still has some bugs that they need to fix.

Wow... I'm surprised they rolled it out at all with PiP not functioning, given that every other HD DVR they offer has it. That's a pretty major function.

I told Bob Barlow about it but they'll probably have to fix it in another update. This box still has bugs that need to be fixed but they're all minor. I guess the PIP issue is a "minor" bug that didn't delay the initial launch of it.

I have a problem keeping 5.1 DD audio thru Toslink from cb (wants to default back to stereo).

Equip:
Scientific Atlanta 8300HDC cable box w/ Mystro firmware
TWC - Kansas City
Sharp LC-52D64U TV
Denon AVR-3802 Rec
HDMI from cable box to TV
Toslink cable from cable box to receiver

I get 5.1 audio to receiver after I go into cable box menu: menu/settings/devices/audio:digital audio/dolby digital/exit

The only problem is whenever I change the TV input (xbox, dvd, etc) and go back to cable, the 5.1 switches back to stereo. So then I have to go back and repeat the settings thing to get 5.1.

I tried Toslink from TV to receiver and only get stereo.

The funny thing is that it only started doing this after a firmware change 4-5 months ago. I called up TWC and they said that it was probably a handshake issue. I haven't bothered to have them come out to see if they can fix it. I don't really want to change out box since I have some cool stuff recorded.

Any ideas?
This is a known "issue" with 8300HDC running ODN versions 3.x
They added a "feature" to detect if your TV is connected via HDMI and following the HDMI handshake (whenever you turn on the TV, the cable box, or switch TV inputs), it will automatically change your digital audio setting to HDMI. I wish there was a way to lock that setting to Dolby Digital.
I'm guessing this feature was requested by someone who thought that people who don't have a receiver and just use the TV speakers would want the digital audio setting to automatically be set to HDMI when using only an HDMI cable to avoid any consumers getting confused why they get no audio when HDMI is suppose to carry audio and video.

This is a known "issue" with 8300HDC running ODN versions 3.x
They added a "feature" to detect if your TV is connected via HDMI and following the HDMI handshake (whenever you turn on the TV, the cable box, or switch TV inputs), it will automatically change your digital audio setting to HDMI. I wish there was a way to lock that setting to Dolby Digital.
I'm guessing this feature was requested by someone who thought that people who don't have a receiver and just use the TV speakers would want the digital audio setting to automatically be set to HDMI when using only an HDMI cable to avoid any consumers getting confused why they get no audio when HDMI is suppose to carry audio and video.

Just to add...

It depends a great deal on the TV connected... When I had an 8300HDC connected to my Samsung LCD via HDMI with a coax connection to my non-HDMI receiver, I never had the issue... DD/AC3 was ALWAYS output via coax regardless of the TV's state. But folks with Sharp and (especially) Sony TV's definitely have the problem. It all depends on what EDID info the TV provides, and how it changes when the TV is turned on/off or inputs switched. However, given that the STB gives you a manual option for coax/optical DD/AC3 output, once that is selected it SHOULD ignore the audio portion of the HDMI handshake, paying attention to it ONLY if HDMI audio out is selected. Alas, it has not done that in ODN 3.x to date.

That said... someone in Charlotte, NYC or San Diego with an HDC and the latest ODN 3.1.3_2 (and one of the problematic TVs) should retest this to see if this behavior has been modified in the latest release.

Since my Samsung TV never caused this behavior in the HDC, I cannot definitively test the new release or my current Samsung 3090 box as to whether the issue is still there... otherwise I would.

IT'S OFFICIAL! I got in the mail today my Navigator flyer. Received phone call from TWC other night stateing Ovt. 6 was the date Navigator would start to seed to Greensboro. Called my TWC office and they confirmed Oct. 6 was the start date and they hoped to be finished by the end of Oct. They said we would get another phone call the night before our boxes are Gatored. SO IT's ALMOST HERE. WOODY

I meant v2.4.6-19.
I am just confirming all this talk is v2.4.6-xx since my SoCal DVR is still v 2.4.4-16. /Dan

IT'S OFFICIAL! I got in the mail today my Navigator flyer. Received phone call from TWC other night stateing Ovt. 6 was the date Navigator would start to seed to Greensboro. Called my TWC office and they confirmed Oct. 6 was the start date and they hoped to be finished by the end of Oct. They said we would get another phone call the night before our boxes are Gatored. SO IT's ALMOST HERE. WOODY
do you know when they will have the Samsung boxes ready?? I want one of those...especially if they are black...this gray SA box is uglying up my setup....well that and my Wii...

IT'S OFFICIAL! I got in the mail today my Navigator flier. Received phone call from TWC other night starting Oct.. 6 was the date Navigator would start to seed to Greensboro. Called my TWC office and they confirmed Oct. 6 was the start date and they hoped to be finished by the end of Oct. They said we would get another phone call the night before our boxes are Gatored. SO IT's ALMOST HERE. WOODY

That's great CW!!!! Now, we can only hope that Ben and Abyss get Gators soon!!!!

So this will be the first (known) transition and nodes going from the SARA OS to Navigator.

Jack

SARA and Navigator still use Powerkey as the OS.

The Samsung SMT-H3270 lacks PIP and that feature only works on the 3090 or the SA HD boxes. If you want PIP then you'll need to use it on your TV if it supports it. This is according to Bob Barlow.

The 3270 can only do 1 90 minute buffer according to Samsung.

The Samsung SMT-H3270 lacks PIP and that feature only works on the 3090 or the SA HD boxes. If you want PIP then you'll need to use it on your TV if it supports it. This is according to Bob Barlow.

I think that is wonderful that Mr. Barlow of TWC-San Diego is so responsive to inquiries and e-mails. This should set an example for ALL TWC division Presidents to follow, AND THEY DON'T! If they are pressed for time, hire someone who knows the ins and outs of the technology who can communicate clearly, beyond the level 1 CSR phone reps who are so clueless most of the time.

Such a move would certainly improve customer relations throughout the company. Sorry to get OT, but I was wondering if there were other good presidential reps in other divisions who are as responsive as Mr. Barlow of TWC-San Diego.

Jack

do you know when they will have the Samsung boxes ready?? I want one of those...especially if they are black...this gray SA box is uglying up my setup....well that and my Wii...

No idea.Maybe if you call the TWC they could give you some information you could share with us.

The 3270 can only do 1 90 minute buffer according to Samsung.Strange. I wouldn't have expected video buffering to be built into the hardware in any fashion. I'm fairly certain that it's not a built-in function of the SA boxes.

You know there is a possibility that if only certain divisions got this MDN 2.4.6-21 update that this could relate to the SARA IPG being replaced on the boxes with Navigator.

After a few days living with -21, I see pretty much all of the exact same issues and have not noticed anything that has been fixed (or even changed) from the previous version. And I am NOT talking about series recordings issues... just the dozens of little downgrades from how Passport worked.

When I had an 8300HDC connected to my Samsung LCD via HDMI with a coax connection to my non-HDMI receiver, I never had the issue... DD/AC3 was ALWAYS output via coax regardless of the TV's state.

Whew... when I read the post you responded to I got a hinky feeling... as in "haven't I read about this issue before?" So 1000 thanks for mentioning it probably is a TV issue. As it turns out, I was at a point where I was contemplating a TV upgrade... except Samsung has gone to glossy displays and I would have a serious issue with such, so I'm holding onto the one I have now (FWIW, I very much was looking to upgrade to get a QAM tuner in the TV which my current one lacks... even more important as I see a lot more "3-4 at the same time" programming going on this fall).

IT'S OFFICIAL! I got in the mail today my Navigator flyer. Received phone call from TWC other night stateing Ovt. 6 was the date Navigator would start to seed to Greensboro. Called my TWC office and they confirmed Oct. 6 was the start date and they hoped to be finished by the end of Oct. They said we would get another phone call the night before our boxes are Gatored. SO IT's ALMOST HERE. WOODY

My sincere condolences Woody!

The Samsung SMT-H3270 lacks PIP and that feature only works on the 3090 or the SA HD boxes. If you want PIP then you'll need to use it on your TV if it supports it. This is according to Bob Barlow.

Is anyone as aghast as I am about this? Samsung's supposed latest DVR being designed to NOT support PIP? TWC releasing a box and saying it will never do PIP because the "box doesn't support it?"

I just find this awfully hard to believe...

My sincere condolences Woody!

You do know I have Navigator at my beach cabin. It has performed flawlessly for over a year. Sorry you are haveing problems. WOODY

Whew... when I read the post you responded to I got a hinky feeling... as in "haven't I read about this issue before?" So 1000 thanks for mentioning it probably is a TV issue. As it turns out, I was at a point where I was contemplating a TV upgrade... except Samsung has gone to glossy displays and I would have a serious issue with such, so I'm holding onto the one I have now (FWIW, I very much was looking to upgrade to get a QAM tuner in the TV which my current one lacks... even more important as I see a lot more "3-4 at the same time" programming going on this fall).

I wouldn't characterize it as a "TV issue" - its an 83xxHDC issue that is TV-dependent. The darn box should ignore the HDMI audio handshake info unless the audio format is specifically set to HDMI.

AFAIK, its an HDC issue only.

I wouldn't characterize it as a "TV issue" - its an 83xxHDC issue that is TV-dependent. The darn box should ignore the HDMI audio handshake info unless the audio format is specifically set to HDMI.

AFAIK, its an HDC issue only.

It is a software bug, introduced in ODN 3*; worked fine before. Maybe if your TV can handle DD over HDMI and replies so during handshake, it does not matter. It appears as though a lot of TVs (including my Panasonic plasma) take 2 channels only via HDMI.
Samsung boxes have been handling sound a bit differently from SA boxes, so they may not have the issue, I am not sure.

It is a software bug, introduced in ODN 3*; worked fine before. Maybe if your TV can handle DD over HDMI and replies so during handshake, it does not matter. It appears as though a lot of TVs (including my Panasonic plasma) take 2 channels only via HDMI.
Samsung boxes have been handling sound a bit differently from SA boxes, so they may not have the issue, I am not sure.

I agree... I was considering the HDC/ODN package as a single entity, since there is not much choice we TWC customers have to separate the two. I suggested the other day (posssibly in the NYC thread) that someone with the latest ODN 3.1.3_2, an HDC box and an affected TV test things out to see if it was addressed in 3.1.3_2.

I have never experienced the problem with either an 8300HDC(ODN3.1.0_11) or an SMT-H3090 (ODN3.1.0_11 or 3.1.3_2) connected to my Samsung A550 LCD. What is surprising is that the EDID read out of the TV by the Samsung (the 3090s will show the display's EDID info in diagnostics mode) shows "Basic Audio Only". There's something more to it than just whether the TV is 2ch PCM only... they virtually ALL are. There's something else in the handshake that the HDC/ODN boxes are not dealing with correctly. Of course, as I mentioned, it shouldn't give a damn WHAT the HDMI handshake calls for when the box is hard configured for DD/AC3 over coax/optical.

... There's something more to it than just whether the TV is 2ch PCM only... they virtually ALL are. There's something else in the handshake that the HDC/ODN boxes are not dealing with correctly. ...

I'm just guesssing, but maybe some TVs reply that they can handle DD (even though they promptly downconvert it to 2 channels), and others reply that the source better downconvert it or else.

... Of course, as I mentioned, it shouldn't give a damn WHAT the HDMI handshake calls for when the box is hard configured for DD/AC3 over coax/optical.

Exactly.
What is frustrating is that it used to behave properly in ODN 2*, so somebody apparently broke it on purpose, thinking it was a good thing; it is broken in at least two 3* versions, don't know about the latest one. Eventually I perogrammed a remote macro to flash through all the menus and reset it, but it does not work right every time, as the amount of time it takes to show Devices manu varies somewhat, and the amount of pauses I inserted may or may not be adequate.

Is anyone as aghast as I am about this? Samsung's supposed latest DVR being designed to NOT support PIP? TWC releasing a box and saying it will never do PIP because the "box doesn't support it?"

I just find this awfully hard to believe...

All new type STB's that are available to them lack PIP. The manual doesn't mention PIP. I have a 3270 and I've tried pressing the PIP button and it doesn't show up. We'll just have to accept it.

You do know I have Navigator at my beach cabin. It has performed flawlessly for over a year. Sorry you are haveing problems. WOODY

Leaving aside my series recording issues, having been very recently switched, I can see dozens of smallish things that simply are god awful compared to how they used to work. AND I'm talking about worse, not just different... I will never accept "different" as anything other than worse/downgrade if it makes operating the device more difficult. Like what seems to be a loss of PIP that some shrug and seem to say "so what, live with it" I find unacceptable.

Unfortunately Samsung will never put PIP again in new STB's. I tried my best to know why it doesn't have PIP and this is what I got. The 3090 still works with PIP but will likely give you a smaller HDD. I don't use PIP that much but I know that people on this board do and that it's a very useful feature if you want to swap tuners.

All new type STB's that are available to them lack PIP. The manual doesn't mention PIP. I have a 3270 and I've tried pressing the PIP button and it doesn't show up. We'll just have to accept it.

There is still confusion about the new Samsung 3270's.

Is the lack of PIP a software bug that TWC will fix in a future Navigator update? Or is PIP not possible to run because of a hardware conflict within the 3270? Now that's just weird. The previous model Samsungs took PIP well, so who is at fault here and why?

The way it stands now, I am still asking for an SA-8300HDC, should my box need to be replaced. There are little things about the Samsungs that don't exactly thrill me. At what is this crap now that we have another customer with a Samsung where three of the legs are broken off? UGGHHH! I want to thank all of you for reporting these issues!!!

Looks like the Samsungs may need another 3-6 months grace period before I would consider them ready for prime time. I just think as it stands now, you're better off with an HDC.

Jack

No PIP isn't a problem with me.

He said that it doesn't have a PIP function. Actually I find it much better than my POS 8300HDC. The 3270's are in certain areas. Milwaukee is still using the 3090 which is ok if the ODN version is up to date. My division always gets the latest ODN versions so my box is fairly bug free. There are some little issues but those do get resolved. I also found another box called SMT-AH700A/TWC. I have both a 8300HDC and a 3270. I prefer the space of the 3270 though the 8300HDC is ok but I'm not the biggest fan of it. It's tolerable but not a good box.

Leaving aside my series recording issues, having been very recently switched, I can see dozens of smallish things that simply are god awful compared to how they used to work. AND I'm talking about worse, not just different... I will never accept "different" as anything other than worse/downgrade if it makes operating the device more difficult. Like what seems to be a loss of PIP that some shrug and seem to say "so what, live with it" I find unacceptable.

I can understand your feelings comeing from Passport which I used to have at beach also. However haveing Sara at my main home I can say I scream for Navigator. If you have ever had Sara I feel you would feel the same way. Just ask Mike Scott. WOODY

No PIP isn't a problem with me.

He said that it doesn't have a PIP function. Actually I find it much better than my POS 8300HDC. The 3270's are in certain areas. Milwaukee is still using the 3090 which is ok if the ODN version is up to date. My division always gets the latest ODN versions so my box is fairly bug free. There are some little issues but those do get resolved. I also found another box called SMT-AH700A/TWC. I have both a 8300HDC and a 3270. I prefer the space of the 3270 though the 8300HDC is ok but I'm not the biggest fan of it. It's tolerable but not a good box.

I am trying to figure out whether to look for 3270 if they get introduced here (I have 8300HDC with ODN). I don't care about PIP at all (I did not even bother to map PIP buttons on my universal remote), but stretched guide would be a definite minus. What are the pluses vs HDC? Does eSATA work?

I don't use eSATA. Yes the stretched guide is bad but you get used to it.

I can understand your feelings comeing from Passport which I used to have at beach also. However haveing Sara at my main home I can say I scream for Navigator. If you have ever had Sara I feel you would feel the same way. Just ask Mike Scott.After using SARA on an 8300HD for slightly less than a month, I cheerfully forked over $900 for a TiVo Series3 with 3 years service; if I'd continued to use Passport, I'd never have considered that. I've posted more than a few vehement anti-SARA rants in these forums.

It's been a couple of years now, and the heat of my hatred for SARA has dimmed somewhat, to the point where my hands aren't shaking as I write this. With time, perhaps I will heal completely and find a true and lasting peace :).

Have any of the other "old timers" here noticed that Samsung appears to be choosing their model numbers based on old IBM computer technology: first 3090, then 3270? :-)


-barry

Have any of the other "old timers" here noticed that Samsung appears to be choosing their model numbers based on old IBM computer technology: first 3090, then 3270? :-)


-barry

What next? 9672? 3745? z990? :D

Yes, I am an IBM mainframer....

I DVR'd CSI: Miami that aired last Monday on CBS HD. I know it recorded it because I saw it. I am about to watch it, and it's not there!

I went to RECORDING LOG, and I check the program it has this message:

"The set-top was unable to record this program (7)"

Anyone had this problem?

There is a sudden change I've noticed with TWC in NYC that I am no longer able to archive ANY content recorded in HD from my DVR or even from live TV to a DVD recorder and I'm wondering if anyone else is having the same experience. I have not seen this addressed in the this thred and please direct me elsewhere if there is a more specific forum on this topic.

I have been archiving HD based content via the component connections on an SA 8300 (i.e. standard resolution/480i output) to a DVD recorder, which has produced quite acceptable disks of anamorphic 16x9 480i content on a DVD+R. HOWEVER, as of this week (perhaps sooner, hadn't tried in past couple of weeks), all HD content is now blocked from recording to my DVD recorder (i.e. I get a 'No Signal' message on the recorder when I try to record anything in HD). I've been able to do this for years and it continued to work even after Navigator was imposed about a couple of months back. I called TWC 'customer service' and was told that there were recent measures put in place to block archiving of 'certain copyrighted material', but since these changes I am no longer able to archive ANY HD channels, including those for news networks or even public television and I can still archive all SD channels, including premium channels. Perhaps on of the many updates with Navigator reset something, if anyone knows of any settings that need to be adjusted I'd appreciate the input. Though, I've noticed reports that TWC bought Macrovision, now called Rovi, and am just wondering if now that is being incorporated into signal output to prevent DVD archiving, but again it seems odd that all HD signals are now blocked and even premium SD content is not.

If anyone else who does DVD archiving has noticed a similar change recently or knows anything further about this, I'd be very interested in hearing more or would be pleased to be directed to where I could find more information on this. Thanks!

Have any of the other "old timers" here noticed that Samsung appears to be choosing their model numbers based on old IBM computer technology: first 3090, then 3270? :-)


-barry

3090 was an IBM mainframe computer
3270 was a "green screen" terminal that was used with a IBM mainframe

the 3270 appeared years (around 10) before the 3090

On the Samsung 3270,

Are there any differences with how it deals with two recordings that overlap in the same time spot and/or conflict resolution with overlapping recordings? (Compared to MDN?)

Jack

There is a sudden change I've noticed with TWC in NYC that I am no longer able to archive ANY content recorded in HD from my DVR or even from live TV to a DVD recorder and I'm wondering if anyone else is having the same experience.... [Please refer to my original post a few posts back for the rest]

Good news is that this appears to have been a false alarm on my part and due to a change in settings following a Navagator update rather than a sinister plot against archivers by TWC. Further late night fiddling has shown that I can indeed still archive HD material on my DVR to my DVD recorder. Previously the component output worked fine always defaulting to 480i even if Navagator was setup for all output modes (i.e. 1080i, 720i, 480i, & 480p) and set to Autoselect (under Settings, Display, Output Resolution). However, if I now manually go in and set it only to 480i output when archiving it works, but I then have to set it back to add back 1080i, etc. afterward or my HD won't play properly through my set. I'll chalk it up as just another (yet another) inconvenience related to the Navigator imposition, though the TWC rep telling me that it was due to new blocking of copyrighted content didn't help resolve the issue (should have known better than to listen to those guys, or even ask in the first place). Sorry to raise the alarm level here, but hope this may help anyone else that may run into this issue.

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/517631/698617.jpg

This is for the 3270 but I still like mine despite the PIP issues. This is also for TWC.

On the Samsung 3270,

Are there any differences with how it deals with two recordings that overlap in the same time spot and/or conflict resolution with overlapping recordings? (Compared to MDN?)

Jack

I haven't tried that out. The REW and FF implementations seems to be better than the HDC boxes.

TWC also has the SMT-AH700A/TWC that I have no idea if that will come out.

I DVR'd CSI: Miami that aired last Monday on CBS HD. I know it recorded it because I saw it. I am about to watch it, and it's not there!

I went to RECORDING LOG, and I check the program it has this message:

"The set-top was unable to record this program (7)"

Anyone had this problem?

Use the thread search tool and you'll get 23 pages of posts about this problem.

Anyone else see last week's Curb Your Enthusiasm? Someone's watching TV, and brings up a program guide, and it's Time Warner's Navigator. It was stretched 16x9, so I guess they had a Samsung box.

Piccies:

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/3944/1004090336.jpg

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/7978/downsized1004090336a.jpg

There is still confusion about the new Samsung 3270's.

Is the lack of PIP a software bug that TWC will fix in a future Navigator update? Or is PIP not possible to run because of a hardware conflict within the 3270? Now that's just weird. The previous model Samsungs took PIP well, so who is at fault here and why?

The way it stands now, I am still asking for an SA-8300HDC, should my box need to be replaced. There are little things about the Samsungs that don't exactly thrill me. At what is this crap now that we have another customer with a Samsung where three of the legs are broken off? UGGHHH! I want to thank all of you for reporting these issues!!!

Looks like the Samsungs may need another 3-6 months grace period before I would consider them ready for prime time. I just think as it stands now, you're better off with an HDC.

Jack

I'm actually surprised I seem to be the only one who is concerned about what LOOKS like the elimination of a significant function (one that I KNOW some have no use for, but are we all so selfish that we don't give a crap that something we've HAD for so long is going to be eliminated just because some don't use it?).

Not to mention there seems to be an implication that indicts Samsung as being responsible for this... all on the third hand "word" of some TWC employee? Will Samsung publicly state they have decided to no longer supply or allow this function in their DVRs?

If something like that DID come to pass, I'd still really scratch my head... it just makes no sense whatsoever.

I can understand your feelings comeing from Passport which I used to have at beach also. However haveing Sara at my main home I can say I scream for Navigator. If you have ever had Sara I feel you would feel the same way. Just ask Mike Scott. WOODY

Ah, I probably didn't think of that when I responded! I never had SARA, but I can certainly see your point.

After using SARA on an 8300HD for slightly less than a month, I cheerfully forked over $900 for a TiVo Series3 with 3 years service; if I'd continued to use Passport, I'd never have considered that. I've posted more than a few vehement anti-SARA rants in these forums.

It's been a couple of years now, and the heat of my hatred for SARA has dimmed somewhat, to the point where my hands aren't shaking as I write this. With time, perhaps I will heal completely and find a true and lasting peace :).

Ah, PASSION, I love it!

I was actually ANXIOUS for them to get on with it and upgrade me to MDN... in kind of a "get it over with already" mode. That was 2 weeks ago and it's turned out to be actually FAR, FAR worse than I would have anticipated. A perfectly functioning DVR has been turned into a total nightmare... not to mention everyone seems to fell there's some alien infecting ONLY my box and no others (which I find hard to believe... the hardware worked fine until it got this MDN).

Question... you said you went with a 3 year TiVO deal... does that mean buying the box and going for the three year plan for the lowest monthly cost... or prepaying for 3 years service? Why not the lifetime plan?

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/517631/698617.jpg

This is for the 3270 but I still like mine despite the PIP issues. This is also for TWC.

Is it just me, or does anyone think this image is saying we customers are screaming rabid cats and because of that don't deserve ANY "nice things?" And when did functionality we've had for a LONG time get deprecated to "nice things?"

Question... you said you went with a 3 year TiVO deal... does that mean buying the box and going for the three year plan for the lowest monthly cost... or prepaying for 3 years service? Why not the lifetime plan?TiVo + 3 years prepaid. At the time, either lifetime wasn't an option for some reason or it was so much more expensive and I wondered if I'd still be using the unit after 3 years. Now that there's only four months or so left in that plan I wish that I'd sprung for lifetime.

I can understand your feelings comeing from Passport which I used to have at beach also. However haveing Sara at my main home I can say I scream for Navigator. If you have ever had Sara I feel you would feel the same way. Just ask Mike Scott. WOODY

I have to agree with this. While I have not had a SARA box myself, my brother still has one in Columbus on Insight (An SA8300HD). And witnessing it personally I have to say that Navigator would be a HUGE upgrade. Even if only for the speed. SARA on the non-OCAP boxes is literaly snail speed. At least MDN is real snappy. And then the GUI is miles better and doesn't have aliased text all over with hard square corners.

But for those of us who came from Passport, it is a bit of a downgrade. Though not TOO bad. My major miff now though is that Aptiv has a native 16:9 OCAP Passport out and Navigator has no signs of getting a 16:9 interface anytime soon. :(

I'm actually surprised I seem to be the only one who is concerned about what LOOKS like the elimination of a significant function (one that I KNOW some have no use for, but are we all so selfish that we don't give a crap that something we've HAD for so long is going to be eliminated just because some don't use it?).

Not to mention there seems to be an implication that indicts Samsung as being responsible for this... all on the third hand "word" of some TWC employee? Will Samsung publicly state they have decided to no longer supply or allow this function in their DVRs?

If something like that DID come to pass, I'd still really scratch my head... it just makes no sense whatsoever.

Oh, I agree with you, Riverside! Add me to the "Concerned" Customers List, even though I don't have a Samsung box!!! LOL!

What has always pissed me off about TWC, is how they and Microsoft seem to be the two biggest monopoly companies that LOVE to play the blame game and pass the buck onto someone else because they think their "wonderful" technology can do no wrong!

I mean sometimes you could just take their little level one salespeople and shake them for lying. However, they are just "reading the script" sent down to them by corporate, doing what their management "tells" them to do. They NEVER want to think that their products are the culprit of problems. Well, there are exceptions, but you often have to jump through hoops to get to level 3 and 4 people who WILL admit problems. (I have done this.)

But TWC-Corporate thinks that those DVR's and Navigator are the greatest thing since the innovation of the wheel! I personally have not had major problems with my services. But I think that power users deserve far better from TWC than they are getting! Perhaps Tivo or someone needs to start side-by-side comparisons of advertising their IPG alongside Navigator.

The goal here is NOT to hurt TWC. Just accept that other choices may be offered to customers that might provide better service. I mean, TWC, instead of being so power-hungry, you should work with these third-party vendors to provide a Tivo-like IPG/box to customers who want one. You don't even have to dump Navigator, but for $5.00 more, support a TIVO box, with Tivo (NOT TWC!) controlling the software on the box! It can be your guide TWC, but TIVO controls how it is managed. TWC, you have proven with Navigator, that while there have been improvements over the last three years, Passport showed that things were better for customers when you accepted second and third party vendors who had experience with their products and services they gave to you!. Like I said, I am happy with my service, but such side-by-side competition could at least force TWC to at least accept that the cable guide they are offering is about 10 years behind the competition. Competition that is direct, might begin TWC to see that they are not the cure all for everything, when compared to other options that may be available.

And to just remove a feature such as PIP from a box for whatever reason to which customers have grown accustomed to on their DVR units for about seven years? ASININE!

Jack

pip, at least for me, was important. but the last 2 boxes (sa 8300 and now the sammy), the pip didnt really work.

in the 8300 i couldnt pause and switch the pic. the paused show would start playing again. also, switching between pic would cause black screens and long pauses, and a lot of other issues.

with the sammy, i still get the cant pause show issue.

so, im using pip a lot less, but i will miss it when it is gone. i think.

pip on the tv isnt much better either btw. maybe pip is fading as a feature.

Anytime TWC takes away something then it becomes a nice thing to have. Just like Keyword Search, Manual Recording, enhanced program listings, and stuff thats available to other providers and not TWC.

TiVo + 3 years prepaid. At the time, either lifetime wasn't an option for some reason or it was so much more expensive and I wondered if I'd still be using the unit after 3 years. Now that there's only four months or so left in that plan I wish that I'd sprung for lifetime.

Thanks... I'm taking another serious look at them... this garbage software is really killing me, Passport really performed consistently and 100% reliably, now I have little hope that I may be on the "swap the box" tread-mill.

Their lifetime is 400 bucks, so the same $8.33/mo as the 3 year pre-pay. I'd go for the 300 box, then figure out how to swap in a 1T drive. BUT, given that the rumors are AGAIN afloat of a <tru2way> that may be around the corner, I am hesitant.

Oh, I assume the hardware has a tear's warranty at best. What happens after that... pay 250 to fix, buy a new box, or is there onje of those "extended warranties?"

Oh, I agree with you, Riverside! Add me to the "Concerned" Customers List, even though I don't have a Samsung box!!! LOL!

And to just remove a feature such as PIP from a box for whatever reason to which customers have grown accustomed to on their DVR units for about seven years? ASININE!

Jack

Get ready for this one... the little alien some feel inhabits ONLY my box is at it again. NONE, ZERO of my series recordings will actually schedule as of this Friday. Out a a good dozen or so, none at all are listed after this Thursday. I even re-did them all, the same thing.

The box goes back this week. I half expect that alien to jump out, hide behind my TV and jump back into any new box I get.

Samsung programs PIP very strangely from one time to the next. My older Samsung 31" HDTV had great PIP and I was able to swap between each no matter what connection. My newer Samsung 46" HDTV only gets PIP while viewing from the HDMI or component connections. The PIP view is the analog TV channels and it is not swappable.

It doesn't make sense that they could program PIP very well 2-3 years ago but can't do so now. They can't really need to save the lines of programming code for the PIP function in order to make the total software package work.

pip, at least for me, was important. but the last 2 boxes (sa 8300 and now the sammy), the pip didnt really work.

in the 8300 i couldnt pause and switch the pic. the paused show would start playing again. also, switching between pic would cause black screens and long pauses, and a lot of other issues.

with the sammy, i still get the cant pause show issue.

so, im using pip a lot less, but i will miss it when it is gone. i think.

pip on the tv isnt much better either btw. maybe pip is fading as a feature.

PIP on the TV I think is less useful because you can only swap video sources. On a dual tuner device, I find is VERY useful because you can swap channels... I use it heavily when 2 sporting events happen a the same time, or so that I can watch a shows with commercials and keep tabs on some sporting event, or even something like a nature documentary.

While there are a few things on my MDN machine in PIP I dislike, it's actually pretty reliable (the ONLY thing that is that way).

I suggested the other day (posssibly in the NYC thread) that someone with the latest ODN 3.1.3_2, an HDC box and an affected TV test things out to see if it was addressed in 3.1.3_2.

I have never experienced the problem with either an 8300HDC(ODN3.1.0_11) or an SMT-H3090 (ODN3.1.0_11 or 3.1.3_2) connected to my Samsung A550 LCD.

I have a Samsung LN-T4661F hooked up to the HDC and have had the HDMI audio flip ever since 3.x came out. The box had a reboot about a week ago so I should check if it is now on 3.1.3_2. In any case, as of last weekend it was still flipping to HDMI audio.

Separately, I had an issue on Saturday where all of a sudden I lost video output from the box. I could see the channel banner when changing channels, but no video content, just audio. Same with any recorded shows. I switched from HDMI to component and no change. Thought I would have to do a box swap this week, but while I was out of the house Sat it dawned on me that I should attempt a box reboot first (the typical first troubleshooting solution; not sure why it escaped my mind and I only thought of checking the HDMI vs component video output). Anyways, reboot fixed everything, and for now I'm keeping it connected via component to stop with the daily routine of changing the audio setting back to DD. My only loss is disconnecting one of the gaming consoles that was using the 2nd component input. Well that and I haven't calibrated the TV settings for the cable box for component.

Wondering if 3.1.3_2 fixes the eSATA issue, but I've gone through so many cycles with that since 2.4.x that I'll just keep the drive disconnected until I hear positive reports from the forum.

Thanks... I'm taking another serious look at them... this garbage software is really killing me, Passport really performed consistently and 100% reliably, now I have little hope that I may be on the "swap the box" tread-mill.

I have seen pics of Passport's new guide. Seriously, it is almost TIVO-like! If only TWC would have just accepted that IPG and continued to pay the residuals to APTIV, we would be seeing that now.

Jack

Oh, I assume the hardware has a tear's warranty at best. What happens after that... pay 250 to fix, buy a new box, or is there onje of those "extended warranties?"

I bought a refurb for $200 minus some FatCash from **************. No regrets so far. The 1TB drive swap was a piece of cake - and the Tuning Adapter for SDV works fine...

It is nice to have software where the newer versions *add* features and have *less* bugs. Quite a concept. Netflix on Tivo is also very impressive.

xnappo

PIP on the TV I think is less useful because you can only swap video sources. On a dual tuner device, I find is VERY useful because you can swap channels... I use it heavily when 2 sporting events happen a the same time, or so that I can watch a shows with commercials and keep tabs on some sporting event, or even something like a nature documentary.

While there are a few things on my MDN machine in PIP I dislike, it's actually pretty reliable (the ONLY thing that is that way).Sounds like PIP and 2 tuner buffering are going together (either both there or both not). The second tuner buffering is even more imporatant to me than PIP, which too I would miss. /Dan

Does anyone know the most recent version of ODN because I think TWC NorthEast ohio got an update yesterday

I think 2nd tuner buffering could come back but not PIP. If you beg TWC a gazillion times then they'll probably "consider" it. So far the 3270 has been a great DVR for us despite your bickering.

Does anyone know the most recent version of ODN because I think TWC NorthEast ohio got an update yesterday

That we know of... 3.1.3_2

charlotte got MDN 2.4.6-19 -- no keyword search

I'm also in Charlotte, but my 8300HD is still version 2.4.4-14.

I've been out of town for a few days and it appears that about 2.5 months after rdgcss up the road in Salisbury got 2.4.6-19 I finally got it in Charlotte.

Have channel logos always been in the guide or were they added sometime between my old version of 2.4.4-14 and my new version of 2.4.6-19?

PIP on the TV I think is less useful because you can only swap video sources. On a dual tuner device, I find is VERY useful because you can swap channels... I use it heavily when 2 sporting events happen a the same time, or so that I can watch a shows with commercials and keep tabs on some sporting event, or even something like a nature documentary.

While there are a few things on my MDN machine in PIP I dislike, it's actually pretty reliable (the ONLY thing that is that way).

Wouldn't it be nice if the box manufacturers would put an extra output jack(s) for the second tuner. But, that would cost money, ... and leave lots of room for users to screw up their connections.

-barry

Why is signal handshake such a deal with the boxes from time to time with HDMI cable?

Tonight I got what I get maybe once every 4-5 months on my SA-8300 MDN box and TWC Navigator. You power up and you get a "Signal Not Supported" error on the screen. A warm reboot did not solve the problem, so I had to turn off the box, (turned off the tv as well.) I did a cold reboot and it was fine.

This has been reported by users from time to time with HDMI cable, but not so with users who still use component cable. What is it about HDMI cable that causes handshake issues like this in the first place?

Jack

I've been out of town for a few days and it appears that about 2.5 months after rdgcss up the road in Salisbury got 2.4.6-19 I finally got it in Charlotte.

Have channel logos always been in the guide or were they added sometime between my old version of 2.4.4-14 and my new version of 2.4.6-19?
We have ALWAYS had channel logos....

It's up to the LOCAL guys to associate a logo file with each channel number....
Sounds like your LOCAL guys finally got off the dime and just did it...

I've been out of town for a few days and it appears that about 2.5 months after rdgcss up the road in Salisbury got 2.4.6-19 I finally got it in Charlotte.

Have channel logos always been in the guide or were they added sometime between my old version of 2.4.4-14 and my new version of 2.4.6-19?

Friends of mine with MDN in Charlotte were upgraded about the same time as rdgcss. I had MDN channel logos from the beginning on my Pioneer non-DVR box, and my ODN boxes (8300HDC, 3090(x2)) have always had channel logos. Not sure why you didn't. :confused:

My daughter got switched to ODN on her 8300HDC last night... She's in Greensboro, just like Woody.

I asked her to get the ODN version number for me. [Update: she got ODN 3.1.3_2... same as we have here in Charlotte]

My daughter got switched to ODN on her 8300HDC last night... She's in Greensboro, just like Woody.

I asked her to get the ODN version number for me.

Great news. I'm still waiting here. WOODY

Great news. I'm still waiting here. WOODY

Don't know if it will roll out by area or by box type (or both)... but she's in an apartment on Bridford. She got a phone call last night around 5:30... but she was on the phone with me at the time and didn't answer it. When she Googled the number, it came up as TWC in Asheboro (which I believe is where their call center is). When she told me that I told her to expect the upgrade soon and, sure enough, at 3:45a (she's a grad student, so she was actually up then), the process started... took about 45 minutes total... said the first process was a CableCard update..

Why is signal handshake such a deal with the boxes from time to time with HDMI cable?

Tonight I got what I get maybe once every 4-5 months on my SA-8300 MDN box and TWC Navigator. You power up and you get a "Signal Not Supported" error on the screen. A warm reboot did not solve the problem, so I had to turn off the box, (turned off the tv as well.) I did a cold reboot and it was fine.

This has been reported by users from time to time with HDMI cable, but not so with users who still use component cable. What is it about HDMI cable that causes handshake issues like this in the first place?

Jack

Danged if I know... even in the alternative universe my stuff seems to reside in these days, the last time I even saw this message was about 2 years ago
when I actually hauled my box over to my sisters to test something out.

It may have NOTHING to do with it, but one "engineering" issues I see is a lack of ability to really secure the HDMI connection. I had helped someone a whi;e back who had one of those really expensive cables... it looked like a simple breeze could make the connector unstable, especially as the cable was so thick and heavy.

Great news. I'm still waiting here. WOODY

Woody,

Maybe if you and Abyss give some Everlasting Gobstoppers to your division President, I'll bet you'll have it this week!!! LOL! If they are doing the roll-out, you should get it any day now!

Just think soon...........NO MORE SARA!!!!

Yes, although any time is fair game, they generally like to update between 2-5 am so I am sure you are ready!

Jack

Danged if I know... even in the alternative universe my stuff seems to reside in these days, the last time I even saw this message was about 2 years ago
when I actually hauled my box over to my sisters to test something out.

It may have NOTHING to do with it, but one "engineering" issues I see is a lack of ability to really secure the HDMI connection. I had helped someone a while back who had one of those really expensive cables... it looked like a simple breeze could make the connector unstable, especially as the cable was so thick and heavy.

Thanks Riverside!

The funny part is that out of all the little things with Oompa Lumpas jumping around in your box, that this is the one message that you have seldom seen! LOL!

Jack

Discovered yesterday that guide data was very truncated in that it only had barely 4 days worth. No wonder I had no series recordings! Even so, I did have Friday guide data and there WAS nothing scheduled for Friday.

Thought I may have caught a 2.4.6.21 bug, but I just checked and I've got the "normal" load of data I've seen since we got 'gatored, AND stuff is being scheduled.

Based on scant evidence, I'm feeling there's a lot more dynamic 2-way that needs to be functioning correctly for things to work. It SEEMS the very slow day to day buttons in the guide COULD be that it actually has to fetch data to display each day. Once or twice I was recording on one tuner, watching another live and I had no guide data for the next day. If I skip ahead 4-5 days, then go back day-b y-day, there's also a significant pause.

OTOH, typically when I look at scheduled recordings, I see everything for the next week.

Wouldn't it be nice if SOMONE at TWC actually had SOME understanding of how this stuff actually is supposed to work?

Hey Jack, love the Ooompa-Loompa idea. I was thinking alternative universe aliens! JUST when I thought they had totally taken over, as I said above THAT issue seems gone. I was ready to "accept" even a HDC, but I can pause on that for a bit... a neighbor who just got his first DVR is quite unhappy becausxe he got a HDC and he says the thing hums like crazy... and my DVR is in my bedroom!

Discovered yesterday that guide data was very truncated in that it only had barely 4 days worth. No wonder I had no series recordings! Even so, I did have Friday guide data and there WAS nothing scheduled for Friday.

Thought I may have caught a 2.4.6.21 bug, but I just checked and I've got the "normal" load of data I've seen since we got 'gatored, AND stuff is being scheduled.

Based on scant evidence, I'm feeling there's a lot more dynamic 2-way that needs to be functioning correctly for things to work. It SEEMS the very slow day to day buttons in the guide COULD be that it actually has to fetch data to display each day. Once or twice I was recording on one tuner, watching another live and I had no guide data for the next day. If I skip ahead 4-5 days, then go back day-b y-day, there's also a significant pause.

OTOH, typically when I look at scheduled recordings, I see everything for the next week.

Wouldn't it be nice if SOMONE at TWC actually had SOME understanding of how this stuff actually is supposed to work?

Hey Jack, love the Ooompa-Loompa idea. I was thinking alternative universe aliens! JUST when I thought they had totally taken over, as I said above THAT issue seems gone. I was ready to "accept" even a HDC, but I can pause on that for a bit... a neighbor who just got his first DVR is quite unhappy becausxe he got a HDC and he says the thing hums like crazy... and my DVR is in my bedroom!

Yea,

We got the wrong guide data on a couple of channels too. Next week they are changing the whole digital line-up to be theme-based for my area in Wisconsin so I just wonder WTF I might see on my screen the morning of October 13th! hahaha!

Jack

a neighbor who just got his first DVR is quite unhappy becausxe he got a HDC and he says the thing hums like crazy... and my DVR is in my bedroom!

LOL!!!! Yea!!! Poor Riverside having to go out to buy earplugs because his new DVR hums at night!!!! I heard TWC execs LIKE to have their DVR's hum them to sleep! It was a choice of keeping PIP in the new boxes or getting the new humming feature and TWC chose humming!!!! hahaha.

Jack

LOL!!!! Yea!!! Poor Riverside having to go out to buy earplugs because his new DVR hums at night!!!! I heard TWC execs LIKE to have their DVR's hum them to sleep! It was a choice of keeping PIP in the new boxes or getting the new humming feature and TWC chose humming!!!! hahaha.

Jack

I figure it's would hum "I got you by the b**ls" over and over! Or "Don't you EVER call me an evil-doer."

Actually, never heard any groundswell about that, but MANY seemed to praise the Samsung for how quiet it was... which could be taken that they all HAD heard some hum, but never complained about it. Which DOES make sense as I THINK only a few have their HTs in their bedrooms as I do.

OK the North East Ohio region got updated to 3.1.3-2 because I have never noticed Original Air Date on the guide before

Great news. I'm still waiting here. WOODY
I'm still waiting as well. and if they call the nite before it happens I guess it won't be tonite, unless they call in the next hour or so

I'm still waiting as well. and if they call the nite before it happens I guess it won't be tonite, unless they call in the next hour or so

They might update your box at a later date tbd.

http://www.transparentvideo.net/application-notes/080222-system-overview-specifications.pdf

Check out page 8 and I thought SARA looked bad. This company sells all digital plant conversions to rural cableco's. They use DVB based boxes from some unknown vendor thats probably in China maybe Korea instead of SA, Samsung, or Motorola.

I've got an 8300HDC Box with ODN 3.1.1_3. When I bring up the diagnostics, I get 14 pages, but nothing appears to show the signal level or S/N ratio. Anyone know if this is available or where to look for it? I'm on Kansas City TW.

I've got an 8300HDC Box with ODN 3.1.1_3. When I bring up the diagnostics, I get 14 pages, but nothing appears to show the signal level or S/N ratio. Anyone know if this is available or where to look for it? I'm on Kansas City TW.

Press vol+ and info on the box's front panel. Then you'll get the SA diag menu which has SnR ratings.

I'm still waiting as well. and if they call the nite before it happens I guess it won't be tonite, unless they call in the next hour or so

They may not call. A lot of folks have not even got the flyer yet and Navigator is being rolled out. WOODY