I've been out of town for a few days and it appears that about 2.5 months after rdgcss up the road in Salisbury got 2.4.6-19 I finally got it in Charlotte.

Have channel logos always been in the guide or were they added sometime between my old version of 2.4.4-14 and my new version of 2.4.6-19?

Friends of mine with MDN in Charlotte were upgraded about the same time as rdgcss. I had MDN channel logos from the beginning on my Pioneer non-DVR box, and my ODN boxes (8300HDC, 3090(x2)) have always had channel logos. Not sure why you didn't. :confused:

Yeah, after I posted last night I realized that channel logos were there with the prior version, but I am still almost certain that the change from 2.4.4-14 to 2.4.6-19 occurred in the past few days. Is there a way to tell when the version was downloaded to the box? I didn't see it in the diagnostics menu.

My daughter got switched to ODN on her 8300HDC last night... She's in Greensboro, just like Woody.

I asked her to get the ODN version number for me. [Update: she got ODN 3.1.3_2... same as we have here in Charlotte]

So is Greensboro the first SARA based TWC region to convert to Navigator? I think there was someone from Brighthouse earlier in the thread, but not TWC.

Yeah, after I posted last night I realized that channel logos were there with the prior version, but I am still almost certain that the change from 2.4.4-14 to 2.4.6-19 occurred in the past few days. Is there a way to tell when the version was downloaded to the box? I didn't see it in the diagnostics menu.



So is Greensboro the first SARA based TWC region to convert to Navigator? I think there was someone from Brighthouse earlier in the thread, but not TWC.

When i go to diagnostics it shows the date of the update on the same line right before version (ODN 3.1.1_3 in my case).

I got to it by going to the box and holding select (i think) and when the mail icon appears on display hit channel down -.

After getting the flyer a couple of weeks ago, I got the call on Monday that I would be upgraded overnight. (I'm in Winston-Salem, on the Greensboro side.) When I got home tonight (Tuesday) and turned everything on, I was greeted with the new look.

After finding several downgrades, I jumped online and started searching for info. After several hours and countless messages I'm growing more interested in leaving TWC behind. The main issue I have, that I can't find any info on, is that I can't seem to find any way to copy a saved program to VCR (or, in my case, a DVD recorder).

I don't know what software I had previously as I've been unsuccessful in my search for screen shots to show me the difference between sara and passport. All I know is that I had the option of copying a recording to vcr and they burned to DVD flawlessly.

Can anyone tell me if I'm doing something wrong?
JEFF

I don't know what software I had previously as I've been unsuccessful in my search for screen shots to show me the difference between sara and passport. All I know is that I had the option of copying a recording to vcr and they burned to DVD flawlessly.I believe that you had SARA--there was no such feature in Passport Echo.

Do any of the satellite system DVRs have that? (TiVo has quite a nice "Save to VCR" feature, if you consider going that route).

Do any of the satellite system DVRs have that?

You took the words right away from my keyboard - that was going to be my next question. I just tried to find out the software version for future reference but nothing came up when I pressed select for 10-20 seconds. While I was watching, a DISH Network ad came on. I'm partial to them, based on previous experience, so I'm going to check them out a bit.

Before moving back to NC from Texas, I lived with a friend for a while in his new house. Since it was a new neighborhood, the cable company had somehow not gotten service established so we had to get satellite service to have anything other than rabbit ears. We splurged on the DVR and it forever spoiled us - time shifting, forwarding through commercials, pausing and rewinding live TV - we never watched TV the same again afterward. In fact, when I lived alone for a while after he got married, I couldn't get satellite service in my apartment, so I went cold turkey and lived without TV.

This was maybe 4-5 years ago and the service then did have a copy to VCR option. After I moved, I ran across a handful of VCR tapes that I made with some classic movies I had recorded from TCM.

While I'm in research mode for the competition, can anyone point me to places for comparisons between services, equipment, etc.?

Thanks!
JEFF

You took the words right away from my keyboard - that was going to be my next question. I just tried to find out the software version for future reference but nothing came up when I pressed select for 10-20 seconds. While I was watching, a DISH Network ad came on. I'm partial to them, based on previous experience, so I'm going to check them out a bit.

Before moving back to NC from Texas, I lived with a friend for a while in his new house. Since it was a new neighborhood, the cable company had somehow not gotten service established so we had to get satellite service to have anything other than rabbit ears. We splurged on the DVR and it forever spoiled us - time shifting, forwarding through commercials, pausing and rewinding live TV - we never watched TV the same again afterward. In fact, when I lived alone for a while after he got married, I couldn't get satellite service in my apartment, so I went cold turkey and lived without TV.

This was maybe 4-5 years ago and the service then did have a copy to VCR option. After I moved, I ran across a handful of VCR tapes that I made with some classic movies I had recorded from TCM.

While I'm in research mode for the competition, can anyone point me to places for comparisons between services, equipment, etc.?

Thanks!
JEFF

If I am not mistaken SARA copied the copy to vcr or dvd burner from TIVO. I belive they have that feature. It was one of the truly bright spots of SARA. WOODY

Anybody tried eSATA with 3.1.3_2?

100% as a FWIW, NYC is still handing out 8300HD/MDN boxes. My aunt had her first DVR installed a few weeks ago, and when I visited her last night, I see it was a 8300HD. So it seems there are three different DVRs, the HD, the HDC and the 3090.

Somebody got a Navigator version that shows the original airdate in the IPG. What version is this? (I assume it's ODN.)

Also, what version are subs getting from the SARA changeover? For MDN, it will either be 2.4.6-19, the most widespread release or 2.4.6-21 the latest release, although not widespread. I don't know the latest for ODN. I think it's 3.1.3-2

But AFAIK, this is the FIRST SARA to Navigator transition.

Jack

100% as a FWIW, NYC is still handing out 8300HD/MDN boxes. My aunt had her first DVR installed a few weeks ago, and when I visited her last night, I see it was a 8300HD. So it seems there are three different DVRs, the HD, the HDC and the 3090.

I think that is good that some divisions are still giving out SA-8300 (non c) boxes. About a year ago, maybe less than that, someone from my area of Wisconsin went to one of the service centers and along the wall, all they had were non-C 8300's.

What I am finding out is that for most service calls, if they are replacing your box, you will get the SA-8300HDC the same for a walk in exchange. You have to ask specifically for a Samsung to get that type of box.

Jack

Somebody got a Navigator version that shows the original airdate in the IPG. What version is this? (I assume it's ODN.)

Also, what version are subs getting from the SARA changeover? For MDN, it will either be 2.4.6-19, the most widespread release or 2.4.6-21 the latest release, although not widespread. I don't know the latest for ODN. I think it's 3.1.3-2

But AFAIK, this is the FIRST SARA to Navigator transition.

Jack

I've never seen "Original Air Date" on either ODN 3.1.0_11 or the new 3.1.3_2... must be local guide data "feature" for those that have seen it... not necessarily inherent in the version. Maybe that system is testing a new guide data format.

My daughter got 3.1.3_2 on her HDC in Greensboro.

Somebody got a Navigator version that shows the original airdate in the IPG. What version is this? (I assume it's ODN.)

Also, what version are subs getting from the SARA changeover? For MDN, it will either be 2.4.6-19, the most widespread release or 2.4.6-21 the latest release, although not widespread. I don't know the latest for ODN. I think it's 3.1.3-2

But AFAIK, this is the FIRST SARA to Navigator transition.

Jack
Still waitng. But as soon as I get Navigator here I will post the version. From what I'm hearing the rollout is going very smoothly so far with little or no problems. I guess them pulling back from the last rollout date to fix bugs is paying off.
WOODY

The only major complaint about Navigator from those who have got it here is the loss of the copy to vcr (or dvd burner) option. This is another feature we will have to scream at Time Warner to restore.I will miss it. It was truly one of SARA's bright well thought out options.

The only major complaint about Navigator from those who have got it here is the loss of the copy to vcr (or dvd burner) option.

Indeed! To me, the ability to output from the DVR was a no-brainer - I had no idea the 'feature' would be going away. Fortunately, I've burned a bunch of stuff recently and only have 3 or 4 things that would be difficult or expensive to replace.

This downgrade alone is reason enough for me to start the research process to see if another option would be more price competitive and allow me to save stuff for posterity. If anyone knows of specific threads or articles here - or other reputable sites - with comparison info or recommendations, I'd be grateful for the pointers.

JEFF

Anybody tried eSATA with 3.1.3_2?

Failed testing on Monday. Plugged in drive with HDC unplugged. Did reboots twice and % full was lower as expected, but no buffering or ability to record.
Might need to figure out how to trigger reformat on drive. I had used this eSata drive (wd5000aaks + Antec MX-1) fine when running 2.x (excluding that time interval where they introduced the sleep bug) and decided to disconnect it after going to 3.x and doing the 24/7 recording of ESPNNews workaround.

Indeed! To me, the ability to output from the DVR was a no-brainer - I had no idea the 'feature' would be going away. Fortunately, I've burned a bunch of stuff recently and only have 3 or 4 things that would be difficult or expensive to replace.

This downgrade alone is reason enough for me to start the research process to see if another option would be more price competitive and allow me to save stuff for posterity. If anyone knows of specific threads or articles here - or other reputable sites - with comparison info or recommendations, I'd be grateful for the pointers.

JEFF

You can still burn copys to your dvd burner with Navigator. Sadly the work-a-round is to leave your tv on the station or dvr program until it finishes.. With SARA I could burn a copy to dvd, record a show to dvr and watch live tv at the same time. Now two of those options are gone. BAD ROBOT! WOODY

Somebody got a Navigator version that shows the original airdate in the IPG. What version is this? (I assume it's ODN.)

Also, what version are subs getting from the SARA changeover? For MDN, it will either be 2.4.6-19, the most widespread release or 2.4.6-21 the latest release, although not widespread. I don't know the latest for ODN. I think it's 3.1.3-2

But AFAIK, this is the FIRST SARA to Navigator transition.

Jack

ODN v3.1.3_2 in San Diego has this feature. I think it's in the data. v3.1.3_2 is the latest ODN release. I checked it out again and they are using different data. The (year) portion is no longer there on tv series The guide isn't as truncated I think. The year for example (2009) does show up on movies. I think were a test market for this guide data. Or maybe thats an ODN v3.1.3_2 feature.

This data is quite descriptive as hitting the info button on a movie on Sho HD is now 3 pages long instead of 2. It even lists actors and who directed the film. This will probably be in other divisions but were a test market for it. Other divisions might have it but I've just noticed it recently. They must have done an upgrade to the guide data servers. The data is more like Passport now. Navigator is now moving closer to Passport.

Failed testing on Monday. Plugged in drive with HDC unplugged. Did reboots twice and % full was lower as expected, but no buffering or ability to record.
Might need to figure out how to trigger reformat on drive. I had used this eSata drive (wd5000aaks + Antec MX-1) fine when running 2.x (excluding that time interval where they introduced the sleep bug) and decided to disconnect it after going to 3.x and doing the 24/7 recording of ESPNNews workaround.

Thanks for the info. If you hook up the drive to the computer, you can run http://hddguru.com/content/en/software/2006.04.12-HDD-Low-Level-Format-Tool/
for a few minutes, and then when you hook it back up to the DVR, it will likely ask to reformat. Doubtful it will actually do something useful after that, though.

Press vol+ and info on the box's front panel. Then you'll get the SA diag menu which has SnR ratings.
Thanks. That did it.

I spoke to the TWC service dept tonight arround 9:00 over a small service issue I had. I asked the csr how the rollout for Navigator was going. He said it was his understanding the 8300hdc boxes were first then the non dvr boxes were being seeded. They would then finish the oter hdc boxes such as 4255hdc ect. Then move on to mdn dvr boxes. That is latest info I had. He also said arround 25 new hd channels were ready as soon as the Navigator rollout was finished for Greensboro. He did say we were getting the latest version of Navigator. At lest thats what he said.. WOODY

Yesterday, I mentioned to my dad how frustrated I was with the changeover to Navigator. Tonight, he told me that he was talking to an older gentleman today who had gone by the local TWC office to pay his bill (like he always does) and couldn't figure out what all the people were doing there with their boxes in their hands. He said he'd never seen anything like it. Hmmmm, I wonder what it could be...

I have the year the program originally came out, but no director information.

I have the year the program originally came out, but no director information.

Only movie channels or when movies are playing. This must be an ODN only feature. MDN has the original date but not the director and actor information.

I've never seen "Original Air Date" on either ODN 3.1.0_11 or the new 3.1.3_2... must be local guide data "feature" for those that have seen it... not necessarily inherent in the version. Maybe that system is testing a new guide data format.

Ah, I used "First Run," this seems the same. Kinda like what NEW USED to mean in Passport!

If they would change it back, I'd probably be quite happy. I find it ALWAYS proper to know when an ep is New/First Run/Original Air Date. We have NO WAY now unless we check external data.

Uh, does not TiVO present this data correctly?

The only major complaint about Navigator from those who have got it here is the loss of the copy to vcr (or dvd burner) option. This is another feature we will have to scream at Time Warner to restore.I will miss it. It was truly one of SARA's bright well thought out options.

Reminds me that we all should support each other, especially on things that we HAD that are taken away. When I was aghast at the thought of losing PIP, I got a lot of "who cares, I never use it."

I have never used that function, never will, but I'll be happy to stand cheek by jowl with ANYONE who is upset they lost it.

This data is quite descriptive as hitting the info button on a movie on Sho HD is now 3 pages long instead of 2. It even lists actors and who directed the film. This will probably be in other divisions but were a test market for it. Other divisions might have it but I've just noticed it recently. They must have done an upgrade to the guide data servers. The data is more like Passport now. Navigator is now moving closer to Passport.

Just to make sure, this seems to imply that this particular issue is 100% what the local sub does and not necessarily related to any specific software version?

Must say the concept of "closer to Passport" sure as hell is encouraging.

Hey, we had MAJOR glitch issues last night with the baseball playoffs in NYC. Most of the comments in our local thread revolved around the Yankee/Twins game, but a few posted issues with other market game, again on TBS.

What about outside NYC? What I observed was a second of lost audio, 3-4-5 seconds of video freeze, audio restored, then video. About one such glitch every five minutes or less.

Just to make sure, this seems to imply that this particular issue is 100% what the local sub does and not necessarily related to any specific software version?

Must say the concept of "closer to Passport" sure as hell is encouraging.

I think this is the "enhanced guide listings". San Diego just got the new guide data and it's nice of course. It's the data since other divisions may not have the original air date. Plus it now lists actors and the directors. San Diego is a test market for ODN versions. Also Navigator is capable of the Dolby 5.1 or Surround Sound tag. It's a data issue as for why shows aren't flagged as surround sound. It's definitely more like Passport as it would show the director and the major actors. It doesn't show every actor but it shows the major ones. Hope this helps.

Thanks for the info. If you hook up the drive to the computer, you can run http://hddguru.com/content/en/software/2006.04.12-HDD-Low-Level-Format-Tool/
for a few minutes, and then when you hook it back up to the DVR, it will likely ask to reformat. Doubtful it will actually do something useful after that, though.

No luck with 3.1.3_2
Oh well...
Maybe 4.x.....

This data is quite descriptive as hitting the info button on a movie on Sho HD is now 3 pages long instead of 2. It even lists actors and who directed the film. This will probably be in other divisions but were a test market for it. Other divisions might have it but I've just noticed it recently. They must have done an upgrade to the guide data servers. The data is more like Passport now. Navigator is now moving closer to Passport.

Gah.

Hopes built up and then dashed against the rocks of reality. :(

The only difference between those ridiculous concept cars that appear at trade shows and something in a TWC "test market" is that concept cars - very occasionally - hit full production.

Gah.

Hopes built up and then dashed against the rocks of reality. :(

The only difference between those ridiculous concept cars that appear at trade shows and something in a TWC "test market" is that concept cars - very occasionally - hit full production.

MDN has the original airdate but this data is ODN only. ODN can even tag things as surround sound or Dolby but it's dependent on the data provider. I think this is a real feature. TWC has promised enhanced guide data and this is it.

I'm going to upload pics of this so you can check it out. Someone else might have this data.

TWC has promised enhanced guide data and this is it.

They've promised a lot of things - like the 14 day guide back in 2005.

Until it exists in more than two or three TWC markets. It doesn't exist in the real world.

They've promised a lot of things - like the 14 day guide back in 2005.

Until it exists in more than two or three TWC markets. It doesn't exist in the real world.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/14086328@N00/sets/72157622547538388/

Here are the pics of this new guide data with good old Paula Deen and Showtime HD. I don't watch movies on cable that often but had to show some pics to show off the new data. This is on a Samsung SMT-H3260 running ODN v3.1.3_2.

TWC Desert Cities and Barstow should also have this guide since they are under the same management as San Diego.

The TV in those pictures is a 16:10 set so thats why there are black bars. There is a way to stretch it to fill the screen.

I think this is the "enhanced guide listings". San Diego just got the new guide data and it's nice of course. It's the data since other divisions may not have the original air date. Plus it now lists actors and the directors. San Diego is a test market for ODN versions. Also Navigator is capable of the Dolby 5.1 or Surround Sound tag. It's a data issue as for why shows aren't flagged as surround sound. It's definitely more like Passport as it would show the director and the major actors. It doesn't show every actor but it shows the major ones. Hope this helps.

Yes, helps! FWIW, one of my LONG standing pet peeves is they NEVER use the standard convention of season and episode (S02-E07). Not even sure if that is IN the data they get from TV Guide... but I KNOW that data item DOES exist.

I'm not so sure issues like no directors being listed can be specifically laid to the IPG itself... my guess is there's a data prep step that had been used to feed into Passport that is NOT being used to feed into MDN.

MDN has the original airdate but this data is ODN only. ODN can even tag things as surround sound or Dolby but it's dependent on the data provider. I think this is a real feature. TWC has promised enhanced guide data and this is it.

Actually, there an interesting question here. EVERY IPG I've seen (on my TV or in pictures from others) carries the TV Guide logo. Logic and simple good business should say that TWC purchases data in a bulk kind of way from TV Guide. It COULD be that they may have another source (as in possible) as well... but that should be for data items NOT supplied from TV Guide... so all that needs to be done is a simple concatenation.

The TV in those pictures is a 16:10 set so thats why there are black bars. There is a way to stretch it to fill the screen.

REALLY? Samsung has a 16:10 TV??? I have yet to hear of any monitor tagged as a "TV" to be anything other than 16:9... but those marketed as "computer" monitors can be... I think it was Apple that started with 16:10, a ratio I see making zero real sense.

REALLY? Samsung has a 16:10 TV??? I have yet to hear of any monitor tagged as a "TV" to be anything other than 16:9... but those marketed as "computer" monitors can be... I think it was Apple that started with 16:10, a ratio I see making zero real sense.

It's actually fairly common for sub 26" TVs to use 16:10 panels that they borrow from their computor monitor divisions. Most are either 1440x900 or 1680x1050 native res.

16:10 is more or less the defacto widescreen computer aspect ratio... it makes sense because 16:9 has way too little height for business apps. Virtually all of the projection systems we install in conference rooms, training rooms, auditoriums, etc, are 16:10... it matches the aspect ratio of the notebooks typically connected to them, and it gives you more available screen height, which is much more important than screen width in most text-based business applications.

Ah, shows you how much attention I pay to small sized TVs!

As for monitors, 16:10 simply delivers more width (typically). My 24" is a 16:9 so 1920 x 1080. A 16:10 same diagonal (class not fact) would run 1920:1200. Think a few more possible spreadsheet columns. There WAS a kind of grail years ago about 2 full page spreads... but I didn't hear much about that for a number of years when they stayed 16:9.

There seem to be quite a few DVDs that are specifically 16:9, so running on a 16:10 computer monitor may mean a stretch.

NB: Yes it seems de facto today, but 2-3 years ago the de facto seemed to be 16:9.

NB: This was a DUMB post, somehow I got height and width reversed in my feeble brain!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/14086328@N00/sets/72157622547538388/

Here are the pics of this new guide data with good old Paula Deen and Showtime HD. I don't watch movies on cable that often but had to show some pics to show off the new data. This is on a Samsung SMT-H3260 running ODN v3.1.3_2.

Nice,

I haven't looked with a fine tooth comb, but my current MDN (2.4.6-19) Navigator IPG does not give that amount of description yet. The On-Demand Channels are the most descriptive, sometimes on the other channels it will say Page 1 of 2, but page 2's data is cut off in some cases. We get stars for movies by pressing the Info button for movies. The year shows up in everything on MDN.

No original air-date for things. But I would guess this is being worked on for MDN 3.0. Since the HDC's run ODN and have the same guide data, does anyone have this extended program listing on an HDC?

For those of you in San Diego with the longer program descriptions, are they still truncated in the DVR show list?

Jack

If it was before the new data then yes it would be truncated. If it was after they've changed it then you would get the full guide data.

Nice,

I haven't looked with a fine tooth comb, but my current MDN (2.4.6-19) Navigator IPG does not give that amount of description yet. The On-Demand Channels are the most descriptive, sometimes on the other channels it will say Page 1 of 2, but page 2's data is cut off in some cases. We get stars for movies by pressing the Info button for movies. The year shows up in everything on MDN.

No original air-date for things. But I would guess this is being worked on for MDN 3.0. Since the HDC's run ODN and have the same guide data, does anyone have this extended program listing on an HDC?

For those of you in San Diego with the longer program descriptions, are they still truncated in the DVR show list?

Jack

My 8300HDC has the same guide data as my Samsung boxes.

MDN doesn't have the HD or Surround Sound tag as of today unless they've added it in v2.4.6-21. I think Keyword Search is in the works and probably is coming sooner rather than later. I also think ODN will debut this feature than MDN will get it. ODN is TWC's new primary platform. MDN is now the 2nd platform which means you have to wait in order to get nice things.

I have had all the output resolutions chosen on my HD8300 box so it would change channels faster. Today I hooked it up using HDMI instead of components. I then went back to components. Now when I change channels it has gone back to being slow and having to resolve the changes in resolution between channels (720p-1080i). I rebooted with no improvement. How can I get it to back to changing channels faster without resolving resolution?

I have had all the output resolutions chosen on my HD8300 box so it would change channels faster. Today I hooked it up using HDMI instead of components. I then went back to components. Now when I change channels it has gone back to being slow and having to resolve the changes in resolution between channels (720p-1080i). I rebooted with no improvement. How can I get it to back to changing channels faster without resolving resolution?

I use HDMI,

And what I do is I know the top resolution that my HDTV supports (1080i.)
Under Settings and Output Resolution, I DESELECT ALL settings except the highest one for the TV. This is what you should do in Navigator. Wait about 15 seconds to see if the settings will be accepted. If not, reboot your box. Remember if your set only supports say 720p than you should only select that and not the 1080. After that, there should not be any more channel lag.

Question, why did you switch originally from component back to HDMI? Also check your Audio Settings and make sure they match up with your connections back there after you have decided what to use.

Jack

PS. If you want to change channels the fastest, you would select the highest setting that your HDTV supports and only that setting. Or if the delay does not bother you, users can leave it on Auto Select, which I think is the default setting. There is only about a 1-2 second delay in channel change when you go from an HD to SD station, not a big deal.

I use HDMI,

And what I do is I know the top resolution that my HDTV supports (1080i.)
Under Settings and Output Resolution, I DESELECT ALL settings except the highest one for the TV. This is what you should do in Navigator. Wait about 15 seconds to see if the settings will be accepted. If not, reboot your box. Remember if your set only supports say 720p than you should only select that and not the 1080. After that, there should not be any more channel lag.

Question, why did you switch originally from component back to HDMI? Also check your Audio Settings and make sure they match up with your connections back there after you have decided what to use.

Jack

PS. If you want to change channels the fastest, you would select the highest setting that your HDTV supports and only that setting. Or if the delay does not bother you, users can leave it on Auto Select, which I think is the default setting. There is only about a 1-2 second delay in channel change when you go from an HD to SD station, not a big deal.

Thanks - I remember now it should be only set to the highest resolution. I switched to HDMI because I wanted to try it again. With previous versions of Navigator I had sound dropouts, but now I don't, so I guess I'll stick with HDMI.

MDN doesn't have the HD or Surround Sound tag as of today unless they've added it in v2.4.6-21. I think Keyword Search is in the works and probably is coming sooner rather than later. I also think ODN will debut this feature than MDN will get it. ODN is TWC's new primary platform. MDN is now the 2nd platform which means you have to wait in order to get nice things.

FWIW, Passport DID carry such data, but it couldn't be counted on to be 100% accurate... within most weeks, one could find an error.

I have had all the output resolutions chosen on my HD8300 box so it would change channels faster. Today I hooked it up using HDMI instead of components. I then went back to components. Now when I change channels it has gone back to being slow and having to resolve the changes in resolution between channels (720p-1080i). I rebooted with no improvement. How can I get it to back to changing channels faster without resolving resolution?

Set only one output resolution on the DVR.

My 8300HDC is constantly rebooting on a certain cinemax channel. It's rebooting for the past hour or so.

My 8300HDC is constantly rebooting on a certain cinemax channel. It's rebooting for the past hour or so.

Did it just start happening? Is it only on that one channel? I would give it 24 hours, watching the other channels accordingly to see if there is something in the system that shouldn't be there. I assume you normally get Cinemax and that they aren't moving any channels around in your area or anything like that? (My area is getting a theme based line-up and some new channels on Tuesday.)

After that time, like tomorrow night, turn off your box and unplug it for about 5 minutes or so. Now plug it back in. After rebooting, go to the Cinemax channel in question. If it is still rebooting even only on that channel, call and report it.

Jack

Did it just start happening? Is it only on that one channel? I would give it 24 hours, watching the other channels accordingly to see if there is something in the system that shouldn't be there. I assume you normally get Cinemax and that they aren't moving any channels around in your area or anything like that? (My area is getting a theme based line-up and some new channels on Tuesday.)

After that time, like tomorrow night, turn off your box and unplug it for about 5 minutes or so. Now plug it back in. After rebooting, go to the Cinemax channel in question. If it is still rebooting even only on that channel, call and report it.

Jack

The Sammy's are just fine which is odd. They have no plans to change the channel lineup. It shows a software update. I think it's MoreMax or something like that. I'll report that to Bob Barlow. That sounds interesting. It's probably turned off right now.

I get everything minus Porn and Latino.

I get everything minus Porn and Latino.

Apropos of nothing, on a box change LONG ago, everything was wide open.. including all the PPV movies AND the 10 bucks for 2 hours porn channels. Being a guy, I HAD to check it out. Guess what? All softcore, just like what Max seems to run in the middle of the night!

My Uncle across town who has a 8300hdc got Navigator last night. However my 8300hd box is still in love with SARA. No Navigator yet. WOODY

My Uncle across town who has a 8300hdc got Navigator last night. However my 8300hd box is still in love with SARA. No Navigator yet. WOODY

They're conspiring against ya, Woody!

My daughter got 'gatored then promptly came home to recuperate (along with me) from swine flu. Her only complaint was that it no longer powered on to the last viewed channel (started powering up to TWC1), which I have showed her how to change here.

Don't feel bad woody.... nothing here either but there's always hope!!!!! Been awhile since posting been sick with gerd and bronchitis.

What's time warner waiting til' the holidays to give us navigator or will they play scrooge ?...i'll go with the latter.:mad:

Unplugged the box for the night and it's not rebooting but it might start doing it again.

My Uncle across town who has a 8300hdc got Navigator last night. However my 8300hd box is still in love with SARA. No Navigator yet. WOODY

They'll do the 8300HD's right after the HDC boxes have been 'gatored.

I also don't subscribe to Disney VOD.

What's time warner waiting til' the holidays to give us navigator or will they play Scrooge ?...i'll go with the latter.:mad:

Hi Abyss,

Sorry you have been so sick man! Would someone at TWC PLEASE give him a Gator to keep him company!!!

It sounds like in the SARA divisions that are getting their Gators, they are doing the ODN C-boxes first. (Maybe the ODN DVR's first.) Than the regular ODN boxes, than they will start on MDN, although will they do the MDN DVR's first or the non-DVR's first? It sounds like the roll-out is going great!

I'll bet that TWC-SARA NYC divisions are watching this roll-out closely! Although time to stop watching and start doing!!!!

I think Woody will have a Gator (in his regular home!) by or before the first week of November! We should start a prediction on the board when you think the Gators will come to your area.

Jack

They're conspiring against ya, Woody!

My daughter got 'gatored then promptly came home to recuperate (along with me) from swine flu. Her only complaint was that it no longer powered on to the last viewed channel (started powering up to TWC1), which I have showed her how to change here.

Hey JC!

I read that first sentence:

My daughter got 'gatored then promptly came home to recuperate.

And thought she got a bad Gator! LOL!

But yea, that sucks that you and your family have been so sick! Hope all of you on the board get better soon!

Jack

Hey JC!

I read that first sentence:



And thought she got a bad Gator! LOL!

But yea, that sucks that you and your family have been so sick! Hope all of you on the board get better soon!

Jack

Thanks... it was actually the mildest flu either of us ever had.

My 8300HDC is constantly rebooting on a certain cinemax channel. It's rebooting for the past hour or so.
I have the same problem with an 8300 hdc with ODC 3.1.1_3 on the local ABC high definition channel - 1421. It will be OK for about 30 minutes on that channel and then reboot. Haven't had the box reboot on any other channel. I'm in Kansas City.

What's time warner waiting til' the holidays to give us navigator or will they play scrooge ?...i'll go with the latter.:mad:

No actualy Greensboro is being seeded with Navigator right now. Rollout started on the 6th. Think the hdc boxes with ODN must be getting done first. Everyone I know who has gotton it has a HDC box. TWC says they hope to have everyone inGreensboro with Navigator by end of OCT. I have a 8300hd box so I must be getting MDN Navigator. WOODY

Hi Abyss,

Sorry you have been so sick man! Would someone at TWC PLEASE give him a Gator to keep him company!!!

It sounds like in the SARA divisions that are getting their Gators, they are doing the ODN C-boxes first. (Maybe the ODN DVR's first.) Than the regular ODN boxes, than they will start on MDN, although will they do the MDN DVR's first or the non-DVR's first? It sounds like the roll-out is going great!

I'll bet that TWC-SARA NYC divisions are watching this roll-out closely! Although time to stop watching and start doing!!!!

I think Woody will have a Gator (in his regular home!) by or before the first week of November! We should start a prediction on the board when you think the Gators will come to your area.

Jack

From everyone I have spoken to who has been Gatored there seems to be no major problems or glitches. No massive crashes of boxes or anything like that. It seems that when they pulled back on the last announced release date because gator had crashed a bunch of employee boxes they got the bug corrected properly. The only major complaint I have heard is the loss of the SARA feature to record from dvr to vcr or dvd burner. With that feature you could burn a dvd of a recorded movie, record a new show and watch a recorded or new show at same time.To us sara users that was like the passport users loseing keyword search. WOODY

To us sara users that was like the passport users loseing keyword search.Hardly--I've had the feature in TiVo forever and used it once, for a friend who wanted me to record a documentary on disc so that she could use it at work; I do guide searches frequently. People who have a use for an ability to archive video to removable media are a much, much, much smaller subset of users than those who have a use for searching the guide. In any case, even without the feature you can capture playback on removeable media, just not nearly as conveniently. You can even still record two programs while doing it; all you've lost is the ability to watch another recording or live tuner while doing it.

No disrespect intended to your loss :).

From everyone I have spoken to who has been Gatored there seems to be no major problems or glitches. No massive crashes of boxes or anything like that. It seems that when they pulled back on the last announced release date because gator had crashed a bunch of employee boxes they got the bug corrected properly. The only major complaint I have heard is the loss of the SARA feature to record from dvr to vcr or dvd burner. With that feature you could burn a dvd of a recorded movie, record a new show and watch a recorded or new show at same time.To us sara users that was like the passport users loseing keyword search. WOODY

I must be missing something... I record stuff and dub to personal DVR (Panny DMR-EH85) all the time - first with an 8300HDC and now with the 3090, always with ODN - via S-Video connections. No fancy workarounds needed... start playback on Cable DVR, start record on Panny. Never thought twice about it.

I must be missing something... I record stuff and dub to personal DVR (Panny DMR-EH85) all the time - first with an 8300HDC and now with the 3090, always with ODN - via S-Video connections. No fancy workarounds needed... start playback on Cable DVR, start record on Panny. Never thought twice about it.You can see a description of this feature on page 13 of this (http://www.cisco.com/web/consumer/support/userguides2/4004007.pdf) Cisco Explorer 8300/8300HD user guide. Select a DVR recording and choose the "Copy to VCR" option; the DVR displays a page with a description of that program. Start recording on a device connected to the DVR's second set of analog outputs (labelled "OUT 2") and press the "A" button on the DVR remote to begin playing the selected recording back through that second set of outputs only, displaying it in the PIP window, which can be dismissed. In the meantime you can do whatever you want, including record live television onto a second VCR/DVDR through the "OUT 1" analog outs.

It's a nice feature if you do that a lot. Again, it's nothing that you can't do without it, but it conveniently leaves the DVR free for just about anything else except viewing a second program through the PIP.

You can see a description of this feature on page 13 of this (http://www.cisco.com/web/consumer/support/userguides2/4004007.pdf) Cisco Explorer 8300/8300HD user guide. Select a DVR recording and choose the "Copy to VCR" option; the DVR displays a page with a description of that program. Start recording on a device connected to the DVR's second set of analog outputs (labelled "OUT 2") and press the "A" button on the DVR remote to begin playing the selected recording back through that second set of outputs only, displaying it in the PIP window, which can be dismissed. In the meantime you can do whatever you want, including record live television onto a second VCR/DVDR through the "OUT 1" analog outs.

It's a nice feature if you do that a lot.

Did/does the HDC also have this? Never noticed it if it did. I don't believe the 3090 does, but straight dubbing works just fine.

Did/does the HDC also have this? Never noticed it if it did. I don't believe the 3090 does, but straight dubbing works just fine.

I have two 8300hdc set-tops, and that feature is not available on our menu here in Charlotte.

Did/does the HDC also have this?

My 8300HDC did, and the loss of that feature has made this week frustrating off the charts. Granted, I can still archive by letting the DVD recorder just copy what's on the screen but, as has been mentioned, that means I can't even touch the remote without that display being recorded as well.

I never would have guessed that TWC would downgrade features and, thus, didn't know to research in advance the changes coming with Navigator. I definitely would have off loaded a few more recordings while I had time and would even be further along in my research toward dumping the TWC box once and for all.

I'm tempted to cancel service as well but I'd had previously spotty problems with satellite reception and wouldn't look forward to retraining my brain to a new channel lineup. Ditching TWC altogether may be a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, so I'll just have to keep looking at my options...

Another option is Windows 7 Media center. You can now build your own cablecard PC and it now supports SDV. It does allow you to burn shows to DVD if it's marked "Copy Freely". Ceton is working on a 4 tuner card while Hauppauge is also working on a DCT device for W7.

Another loss is the setting to skip to end in playback. I guess I used that more than I thought to make sure a channel didn't cut off the end of a movie or program. Now, with the loss of that ability, coupled with the slower FF top speed, it takes a eternity to get to the end of a long recording on the DVR.

Another loss is the setting to skip to end in playback. I guess I used that more than I thought to make sure a channel didn't cut off the end of a movie or program. Now, with the loss of that ability, coupled with the slower FF top speed, it takes a eternity to get to the end of a long recording on the DVR.

MDN seems to retain a "skip to 15 minute increments." Press and hold FF button. I think ODN has similar...

Hardly--I've had the feature in TiVo forever and used it once, for a friend who wanted me to record a documentary on disc so that she could use it at work; I do guide searches frequently. People who have a use for an ability to archive video to removable media are a much, much, much smaller subset of users than those who have a use for searching the guide. In any case, even without the feature you can capture playback on removeable media, just not nearly as conveniently. You can even still record two programs while doing it; all you've lost is the ability to watch another recording or live tuner while doing it.

No disrespect intended to your loss :).

Mike this was a feature I used 4 or 5 times a week. After a hard day in was easy to archive a recorded show to a dvd while watching a show I wanted to watch live not a show or movie I had watched but wanted to save. We may be a smaller group than the keyword search folk.. However we miss our deleated sara option just as much. ( It would be nice if TWC readded this option along with keyword search) then we could all be happy.) WOODY

Mike the total point is why could not TWC poll customers before Navigator was released anywhere any see what features customers wanted to keep. I know thats like looking in the rear view mirror now but it was a stupid decision by Time Warner to move forward with Navigator without any customer input. I still get customer review forms from TIVo and I have not had Tivo in four years. Just another Time Warner blunder. WOODY

I feel for you that a feature you valued is not in Navigator, but it's not nearly as impactful a feature as guide searches. You can just as easily archive recordings to removable media without "Copy to VCR"--you just can't watch something else with the DVR while doing it. Without guide searches, you can't search the guide data (other than by manual inspection :rolleyes:), period. Not every other DVR IPG has a "Copy to VCR"-like feature; TiVo does but Passport didn't (I don't know if the Dish, DirecTV or U-verse DVRs have it). If you'd never had it, I don't think you'd miss it or be complaining that it wasn't there--witness the people who've responded here who archive to disc frequently without it, curious to know what the big deal is. I'm pretty sure that all of those major DVR IPGs (DISH, DirecTV, U-verse, etc) have guide searches.

It would have been nice if TWC had done some kind of survey asking people what they wanted in a new IPG--who knows, maybe they did, in some limited areas. Even if they had, they may not have gotten enough requests for that to feel as though it were worth implementing and maintaining it. Lord knows that there are things that TiVo has been asked for a billion times without giving any priority to implementing (scheduled-to-be-recorded indicators on guide displays--another something every other major DVR IPG has--quickly comes to mind :rolleyes:).

Maybe "Copy to VCR" is as-or-more important to you than guide searches, particularly since you never had guide searches--again, I sympathize.

My Uncle across town who has a 8300hdc got Navigator last night. However my 8300hd box is still in love with SARA. No Navigator yet. WOODY
I have the same box, haven't gotten an update yet. I stay a ways down Randleman Rd

I have the same box, haven't gotten an update yet. I stay a ways down Randleman Rd

I'm out by Guilford College, and I haven't even gotten the mailing yet telling me Navigator is coming! I have an 8300HD DVR and a (I think) 4250HDC non-dvr.

I take that back...I forgot I had to switch boxes a few months back due to the HDMI port shorting out during a thunderstorm(2nd time that happened in a year) so now I have an 8240HDC DVR box :( and something tells me those are a ways down the road, so maybe I will get navigator towards the end of the month.

fairtomiddlin I got my mailer 2 weeks ago, but its plenty of people that haven't, some of which have already gotten Navigator

I take that back...I forgot I had to switch boxes a few months back due to the HDMI port shorting out during a thunderstorm(2nd time that happened in a year) so now I have an 8240HDC DVR box :( and something tells me those are a ways down the road, so maybe I will get navigator towards the end of the month.

fairtomiddlin I got my mailer 2 weeks ago, but its plenty of people that haven't, some of which have already gotten Navigator

I belive the 8300HDC and the 8240HDC are close kin to each other. I belive the main difference is the 8240HDC does not have a analog tuner only a digitial and HD tuner.I have a 8300HD in the den and a 8240HDC in our bedroom. Hopefully we will both be gatored soon. My Uncle did not get a flyer or phone call. He just work up Sunday morning with Navigator .

I have the same problem with an 8300 hdc with ODC 3.1.1_3 on the local ABC high definition channel - 1421. It will be OK for about 30 minutes on that channel and then reboot. Haven't had the box reboot on any other channel. I'm in Kansas City.

I'm in KC with 8300HDC on ODC 3.1.1_3 also and I don't have that problem. Could it be a bad box maybe?

Another loss is the setting to skip to end in playback. I guess I used that more than I thought to make sure a channel didn't cut off the end of a movie or program. Now, with the loss of that ability, coupled with the slower FF top speed, it takes a eternity to get to the end of a long recording on the DVR.

Other poster is right, you can skip in 15 minute increments but you have to hold the FF or RW button down for about 5 seconds for each 15 minute increment.

Other poster is right, you can skip in 15 minute increments...

When we upgraded from a non-remote 25" console TV to a 40" Samsung flat screen, we also took the plunge for the HD cable package. (I wonder how many incremental steps we managed to vault over in that UPGRADE??) The subcontractor who did the work had the SA 8300HDC box but, naturally, was out of any paperwork to go with it. Most of what I know about features has been deduced by 'obviousness' or explored by trial and error or learned from friends who enjoy this or that feature on their box. Something like the 15-minute-skip falls into none of those categories, so thanks for sharing the method.

At one point, I looked for an online manual or user's guide but came up empty. Anyone know of paperwork available or a page or thread with that kind of info? In case we stick with this box, it'd be nice to see if I'm missing anything else that would take the sting out of my 'upgrade' courtesy of TWC.

Nope no known paperwork unless you go to the TWC website. I have the manual for my Samsung 3270 DVR but it doesn't mention the IPG.

Looks like Greensboro is doing the 8240HDC's as one guy reported his box doing the L - countdown.

Woke up in the middle of the night and was thirsty, so I got some water turned the TV on and BAM there was Navigator....so I started playing around with it, looking to see if my recordings, settings carried over. some did some didn't. Strangely all of my channels aren't showing up in the guide, but I can still go to them by putting in the channel number. No complaints though, other than I wish the guide filled the screen, it was a bit slow when I first turned on the box but its pretty fast now.

When we upgraded from a non-remote 25" console TV to a 40" Samsung flat screen, we also took the plunge for the HD cable package. (I wonder how many incremental steps we managed to vault over in that UPGRADE??) The subcontractor who did the work had the SA 8300HDC box but, naturally, was out of any paperwork to go with it. Most of what I know about features has been deduced by 'obviousness' or explored by trial and error or learned from friends who enjoy this or that feature on their box. Something like the 15-minute-skip falls into none of those categories, so thanks for sharing the method.

At one point, I looked for an online manual or user's guide but came up empty. Anyone know of paperwork available or a page or thread with that kind of info? In case we stick with this box, it'd be nice to see if I'm missing anything else that would take the sting out of my 'upgrade' courtesy of TWC.

There is some info here:
http://www.cisco.com/web/consumer/support/prod_tv_set_tops.html
http://www.timewarnercable.com/northeastohio/site.faqs/Equipmenta

Looks like Greensboro is doing the 8240HDC's as one guy reported his box doing the L - countdown.
thats about the time I turned my box on and seen it.

After messing around with it for a few hours I've seen a few things. Didn't I read back somewhere that Navigator was missing keyword search or something similar? the version I have has keyword search for shows. I did notice that it DIDN'T have guide data for 6 days in the future like SARA had though, maybe a glitch, but as of right now nothing is coming up for next Monday at all.

MY 8240HDC GOT GATORED LAST NIGHT!At last I got Navigator. My 8300hd is still on SARa. Have not had much time to play with it but it seems all my recordings survived. Let me play with it couple days and I will post on it. But at last I HAVE BEEN GATORED AND IT IS SWEET. WOODY

thats about the time I turned my box on and seen it.

After messing around with it for a few hours I've seen a few things. Didn't I read back somewhere that Navigator was missing keyword search or something similar? the version I have has keyword search for shows. I did notice that it DIDN'T have guide data for 6 days in the future like SARA had though, maybe a glitch, but as of right now nothing is coming up for next Monday at all.
Strange I have all the guide data.

have you noticed any missing channels in the guide? right now my guide is jumping from 130 to 510 and then from 575 to 1....but I can still put the channel number in and go to the channel

it was a stupid decision by Time Warner to move forward with Navigator without any customer input. I still get customer review forms from TIVo and I have not had Tivo in four years. Just another Time Warner blunder. WOODY

Much as I detest TWC, I'm not so sure about that... my issue is that way too many customers seem to have what I think are odd ideas about what should or shouldn't be in DVR software. Reading what some seem to want, we could end up with TWC stretching everything that isn't actual widescreen... because many people seem to think this is how it should work.

My issue with a lot of such folks is many seem to think that THEIR WAY is the one true way and that "way" should be imposed on everyone.

Well, this is just more evidence of "different strokes for different folks." I've never even thought about searching for programs using the cable box's on-screen guide and can't see any reason to do so now. I have my cable lineup associated with my imdb account. Anytime I look at the page for a movie or actor, the upcoming showings available to me are listed right there. Between that and scanning the online listings from TitanTV from time to time, it seems I have all I could ever want to watch.

For me, I can see 1 or maybe 2 things that I like better with Navigator and 5 or 6 things that the previous version did - and that I used almost nonstop - that are now missing.

When we upgraded from a non-remote 25" console TV to a 40" Samsung flat screen, we also took the plunge for the HD cable package. (I wonder how many incremental steps we managed to vault over in that UPGRADE??) The subcontractor who did the work had the SA 8300HDC box but, naturally, was out of any paperwork to go with it. Most of what I know about features has been deduced by 'obviousness' or explored by trial and error or learned from friends who enjoy this or that feature on their box. Something like the 15-minute-skip falls into none of those categories, so thanks for sharing the method.

At one point, I looked for an online manual or user's guide but came up empty. Anyone know of paperwork available or a page or thread with that kind of info? In case we stick with this box, it'd be nice to see if I'm missing anything else that would take the sting out of my 'upgrade' courtesy of TWC.

Not sure about your market, but up here there is a TWC channel that has a decent number of short video's of 1-2 minute duration that go step by step through various steps in using the IPG. They DO seem to lack some of the more subtle touches that we finds through trial, error, and reading forums such as this one. I daresay anything they'd print would miss that as well...

thats about the time I turned my box on and seen it.

After messing around with it for a few hours I've seen a few things. Didn't I read back somewhere that Navigator was missing keyword search or something similar? the version I have has keyword search for shows. I did notice that it DIDN'T have guide data for 6 days in the future like SARA had though, maybe a glitch, but as of right now nothing is coming up for next Monday at all.

Many terms are thrown around regarding search, I got a BIG argument from a friend who kept claiming they had it... because there was a screen where one can enter letters... eventually I was able to show him it was NOT what he thought it was.

Yes, one CAN enter letters and find the titles of various shows... but titles ONLY. If you do NOT know the correct title, you will NOT find it. Nor will you find an actors name, or a directors name (assuming we actually get back the lost directors names for movies).

TWC calls what it does keyBOARD search. Mostly, we refer to keyWORD search as meaning ability to search by ANY term in a description.

Strange I have all the guide data.

Sometimes I see hints that each day comes down dynamically (as you try and look at any day it takes a LONG time to display each day's listings, a few times when recording on one tuner and looking live on the other, the guide had no data for even the next day).

A week ago I freaked because for 3 days it looked like no series recordings were being added. Eventually I saw that the box was only showing 4 days worth. When the full 6 days came back, boom all my series also came back.

OTOH I generally DO see a week's worth of scheduled recordings, one might conclude ALL IPG guide data is local.

I have seen incomplete guide data generally only immediatelay after a box swap or upgrade... the full week has always fleshed out within 24 hours. Outside of that, my guide appears to be fully populated at all times... at any time I can hit [6][right] while viewing the guide and the info is always there, even out at the end of the week... no loading necessary.

One oddity I have found, is that it appears that series recordings that are six days out are not flagged in the guide as scheduled recordings, even if the show itself is listed in the guide... but wait a day and they will indeed be flagged in the guide. I surmise that the the series recordings are flagged on some sort of a daily schedule that does not necessarily coincide with guide updates. So... don't get too worried if today (Tuesday) you scan through the guide and your series recordings for next Monday are not yet flagged in the guide.

Many terms are thrown around regarding search, I got a BIG argument from a friend who kept claiming they had it... because there was a screen where one can enter letters... eventually I was able to show him it was NOT what he thought it was.

Yes, one CAN enter letters and find the titles of various shows... but titles ONLY. If you do NOT know the correct title, you will NOT find it. Nor will you find an actors name, or a directors name (assuming we actually get back the lost directors names for movies).

TWC calls what it does keyBOARD search. Mostly, we refer to keyWORD search as meaning ability to search by ANY term in a description.
ok I gotcha....thanks for clearing that up for me. Being able to type in a director or actors name would be very beneficial....

ok I gotcha....thanks for clearing that up for me. Being able to type in a director or actors name would be very beneficial....

Keyword Search is being added to Navigator in the next couple of updates I have heard. WOODY

You can't search for Titles containing special characters either, such as apostrophe (Let's Make A Deal),
dash, exclamation mark (E!), dollar sign (you know you've seen them), et.al.

MY 8240HDC GOT GATORED LAST NIGHT!At last I got Navigator. My 8300hd is still on SARa. Have not had much time to play with it but it seems all my recordings survived. Let me play with it couple days and I will post on it. But at last I HAVE BEEN GATORED AND IT IS SWEET. WOODY

Awesome Woody!!!!

And it sounds like you got a happy Gator! LOL! Now you can look at the SARA box like the BEFORE box and the Gator like your AFTER box! hahaha.

They might be finishing up the MDN boxes in your area, than the MDN's.

Jack

Anyone have a clue when gator is coming to the Columbia SC area. I am tired of SARA and now even Woody has it in his house. I am hoping that it will be soon since TWC Carolinas has it in Woody's area. Thanks! BTW congrats Woody!

You can't search for Titles containing special characters either, such as apostrophe (Let's Make A Deal),
dash, exclamation mark (E!), dollar sign (you know you've seen them), et.al.

Right, remember the workarounds:

For Searching in Navigator:

If the show has an apostrophe or special character for example "Let's" just start typing the word "Lets" and it should show up. OR do a category search.

If any show starts with the word "The" or "A," the first letter of the second word in the title is used for a Keyboard Search.

A Keyword Search update will certainly make the keyboard function in Navigator so much better!

They MIGHT just add Keyword Search where when you start typing you will get BOTH titles and related words in the search. For example, type the word, "Packers" get BOTH shows with the word "Packers" in the title AND "Green Bay Packers" games.

Jack

Anyone have a clue when gator is coming to the Columbia SC area. I am tired of SARA and now even Woody has it in his house. I am hoping that it will be soon since TWC Carolinas has it in Woody's area. Thanks! BTW congrats Woody!

It's sweet. But word of warning. Navigator is a lot different from sara. I had it at my beach house for over a year so I was used to it. TWC should sent out directions because their is a lot of neat hidden features and new way things need to be done. I feel a lot of complaints will be from folk who just don't kow how to use Gator. Once you master it I think you will enjoy it. It's a big big upgrade from SARA. Wish I could tell you when you will get Gatored but I have no idea. WOODY

Well, this is just more evidence of "different strokes for different folks." I've never even thought about searching for programs using the cable box's on-screen guide and can't see any reason to do so now. I have my cable lineup associated with my imdb account. Anytime I look at the page for a movie or actor, the upcoming showings available to me are listed right there. Between that and scanning the online listings from TitanTV from time to time, it seems I have all I could ever want to watch.I have to think that most people don't want to have to look up television guide information on their computer. Not a problem for me, since the PC that I actively use is a laptop which I use solely through the same 46" panel that I watch television on, but most people have to get up and go to a computer in another room. People with PCs connected to their televisions have to still be in a tiny minority.

Also, when you search the guide using your STB, you can do stuff with the results, like choose a showing of something which matched your search and immediately set up a recording of it.

I got the Navigator update a few weeks ago on my New York Time Warner 8300HD. I scanned the last few pages of this thread and was surprised to see that people are looking forward to this "update". For me the experience has been lousy.

I'm by no means a "power user", but here's a couple of the problems:
*When playing back a recorded show, Info doesn't update the elapsed time. For example, it remains 0:00 ------ 30:00 for the entirety of a half hour show.

* Navigator can't successfully play back one show while another is being recorded. The playback video freezes.

* Navigator often doesn't record the first 15 seconds or so of my programs. Maybe the clock setting is slightly off. Or perhaps the old system (Passport?) automatically added a 15 second buffer to record start times. I'm not sure.

Are other people experiencing these problems?

I got the Navigator update a few weeks ago on my New York Time Warner 8300HD. I scanned the last few pages of this thread and was surprised to see that people are looking forward to this "update". For me the experience has been lousy.

I'm by no means a "power user", but here's a couple of the problems:
*When playing back a recorded show, Info doesn't update the elapsed time. For example, it remains 0:00 ------ 30:00 for the entirety of a half hour show.

* Navigator can't successfully play back one show while another is being recorded. The playback video freezes.

* Navigator often doesn't record the first 15 seconds or so of my programs. Maybe the clock setting is slightly off. Or perhaps the old system (Passport?) automatically added a 15 second buffer to record start times. I'm not sure.

Are other people experiencing these problems?

The running time during playback is on the left tab of the Info panel... where time of day usually is.

Simultaneous record/playback can and does work fine... not saying you don't have a problem, but its not endemic to all Navigator setups.

Look at the clock when recordings stop or start. Does it coincide exactly with the clock "flip"?

According to my local TWC office plans are for all TWC regions to have Navigator by the second or not later than third quarter of next year.They are it seems trying to roll out Navigator at the same time Comcast is rolling out Tivo.Let the Navigator vs Tivo debate start.Seems both have a lot of simular features and a lot od different ones also.(Depends on what Tivo features Comcast loads in it's boxes)

Was able to get in the pdf on TWC Nebraska.Some more sweet navigator features told about.In addition to 3 fast forward speeds you can flash forward in fifteen minutes increments.A new way of putting favorite channels first so you do not have to scroll thru a bunch of channels you do not care aboutAlso a new slow motion button with new features that was not revealed in the PDF.A lot more was spoken about but pdf so grainy on my webtv was hard to read.Cannot wait for navigator was very impressed.

MY 8240HDC GOT GATORED LAST NIGHT!At last I got Navigator. My 8300hd is still on SARa. Have not had much time to play with it but it seems all my recordings survived. Let me play with it couple days and I will post on it. But at last I HAVE BEEN GATORED AND IT IS SWEET. WOODY

Congrats Woody!

It only took 3 years for TWC to come through for you!

Your first 2 quotes above are from the first page of this thread!

When we upgraded from a non-remote 25" console TV to a 40" Samsung flat screen, we also took the plunge for the HD cable package. (I wonder how many incremental steps we managed to vault over in that UPGRADE??) The subcontractor who did the work had the SA 8300HDC box but, naturally, was out of any paperwork to go with it. Most of what I know about features has been deduced by 'obviousness' or explored by trial and error or learned from friends who enjoy this or that feature on their box. Something like the 15-minute-skip falls into none of those categories, so thanks for sharing the method.

At one point, I looked for an online manual or user's guide but came up empty. Anyone know of paperwork available or a page or thread with that kind of info? In case we stick with this box, it'd be nice to see if I'm missing anything else that would take the sting out of my 'upgrade' courtesy of TWC.

I don't know of any printed info for the features but I can give you one more nugget that comes in very handy if you don't already know about it.

When you go to the guide and want to scan for upcoming shows you don't have to just go forward by hitting the "right (->)" button. If you want to go ahead 24 hours just hit the number 1 then hit the "right (->)" button and it will skip ahead one day. For going ahead 5 days select the number 5 then "right (->)" and you will go forward 5 days. Saves tons of time.

At one point, I looked for an online manual or user's guide but came up empty.In the past I recall various printable documents available online but apparently none have been maintained. The only documentation that I can find is what you get when you go to a TWC site and drill down to Learn->Digital Cable, like here (http://www.timewarnercable.com/SanDiego/learn/cable/navigator/default.html) via TWC San Diego's site. Pretty sparse, with no helpful tips like 15-minute skip.

The old SA 8000HD & 8300HD w/ Passport software (TWC) (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=453804) thread had a "Passport Tips and Tricks (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4547722&highlight=guide+tips#post4547722)" post, with a link to it in the thread's top post. Then there's DoubleDAZ's SA 8300 HD Tips & Tricks -- SARA (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=471859) thread, with a wealth of SARA information. Someone should start something like that here. (I'd consider doing it, but I'm not actively using Navigator at this time).

I don't know if this has been reported, but in the process of checking STB power consumption I just noticed that Navigator's v3.1.1_3 timer functions are very bizarre.

IIRC Passport would let you set daily & repetitive ON and OFF timers at specific times. Now Under Quick Settings > Devices we now get Timer:Sleep and Timer:Wakeup.
The former is a one time, countdown in minutes to 'power off'.
The latter is a one time, future day/time event to 'power on'.
What the heck is this good for?

Also, the 'power' button on my 4250HDC doesn't seem to do anything except turn off the aux outlet (if set that way), but that's another topic. DVR users, no whining :-), even 16 watts 24x7 adds up.

I don't know if this has been reported, but in the process of checking STB power consumption I just noticed that Navigator's v3.1.1_3 timer functions are very bizarre.

IIRC Passport would let you set daily & repetitive ON and OFF timers at specific times. Now Under Quick Settings > Devices we now get Timer:Sleep and Timer:Wakeup.
The former is a one time, countdown in minutes to 'power off'.
The latter is a one time, future day/time event to 'power on'.
What the heck is this good for?

Also, the 'power' button on my 4250HDC doesn't seem to do anything except turn off the aux outlet (if set that way), but that's another topic. DVR users, no whining :-), even 16 watts 24x7 adds up.

The BCM7410 and 7420 chips have true power management though those chips will likely appear in the next gen Samsung boxes coming out in a couple of years. These chips use a 45 nm design and are much more powerful than the chips that are being used today.

I have to think that most people don't want to have to look up television guide information on their computer...

Agreed, and those preferences are what can make this a nightmare for both end users and TWC. I can't imagine doing things other than the way I've grown to prefer. I's often easy to assume that other people must be like me but just this thread shows how many different ways we all use our systems. It's been entertaining and eye-opening to me but hasn't fundamentally changed the way I'm going to use my box in the future.

The me, the main frustration is losing features during an upgrade. I'm ignorant when it comes to the technical aspects of the new and old STBs but leaving a "copy to VCR" option and "skip to end of recording" selection would seem to be very minor in terms of hardware and software requirements. If they are able to add search functions for people to whom that would be a boon, great! But reworking and removing what are (admittedly to me) basic functions is maddening.

I appreciate the civil discussion here and it's helped me to reign in my frustration by seeing that I'm unique - just like everyone else :D - when it comes to my TV viewing and recording habits.

quick question: (still in process of reading this monster of a thread ... sorry)

I'm pretty sure we are gatored ... and have been for a while now. (sorry - 8300hd - TWC Cinci market) ... how do i confirm this? i don't see an option for setup menu or stb info.

when i reboot, i do see the MYSTRO screen ... but the old channel 199 doesn't work anymore ... i think since our realignment back at the end of August. that did bring back the old "flip thru guide w/ FAV button" that i really missed. FF seems to still be 2x/4x/8x.

Congrats Woody!

It only took 3 years for TWC to come through for you!

Your first 2 quotes above are from the first page of this thread!

What can I say. The boys at Time Warner are turtles. WOODY

Agreed, and those preferences are what can make this a nightmare for both end users and TWC. I can't imagine doing things other than the way I've grown to prefer. I's often easy to assume that other people must be like me but just this thread shows how many different ways we all use our systems. It's been entertaining and eye-opening to me but hasn't fundamentally changed the way I'm going to use my box in the future.

The me, the main frustration is losing features during an upgrade. I'm ignorant when it comes to the technical aspects of the new and old STBs but leaving a "copy to VCR" option and "skip to end of recording" selection would seem to be very minor in terms of hardware and software requirements. If they are able to add search functions for people to whom that would be a boon, great! But reworking and removing what are (admittedly to me) basic functions is maddening.

I appreciate the civil discussion here and it's helped me to reign in my frustration by seeing that I'm unique - just like everyone else :D - when it comes to my TV viewing and recording habits.

I agree with you that the loss of these functions are a bummer. The passport people lost more features than we did. Wonder when Time Warner will start adding new features instead of deleating them. WOODY :)

Right, remember the workarounds:

For Searching in Navigator:

If the show has an apostrophe or special character for example "Let's" just start typing the word "Lets" and it should show up. OR do a category search.

If any show starts with the word "The" or "A," the first letter of the second word in the title is used for a Keyboard Search.

A Keyword Search update will certainly make the keyboard function in Navigator so much better!

They MIGHT just add Keyword Search where when you start typing you will get BOTH titles and related words in the search. For example, type the word, "Packers" get BOTH shows with the word "Packers" in the title AND "Green Bay Packers" games.

Jack

Indeed those are some of the tricks! There's also that scrolling list on the left hand side...

BUT let us not forget there are deficiencies in the guide data... like no directors listed. If we get real keyword search without the guide data being updated, we're still left with holes that we NEVER had in a whole bunch of years with the Passport. And yes, I DO understand what being gatored means to SARA folks... just saying what COULD be.

I got the Navigator update a few weeks ago on my New York Time Warner 8300HD. I scanned the last few pages of this thread and was surprised to see that people are looking forward to this "update". For me the experience has been lousy.

I'm by no means a "power user", but here's a couple of the problems:
*When playing back a recorded show, Info doesn't update the elapsed time. For example, it remains 0:00 ------ 30:00 for the entirety of a half hour show.

* Navigator can't successfully play back one show while another is being recorded. The playback video freezes.

* Navigator often doesn't record the first 15 seconds or so of my programs. Maybe the clock setting is slightly off. Or perhaps the old system (Passport?) automatically added a 15 second buffer to record start times. I'm not sure.

Are other people experiencing these problems?

Actually, the elapsed time IS there, it's in the upper left corner of the banner. The issue is simply god awful UI... we were used to seeing it right in the "thermometer" so we got a visual guide and the numbers "together." Now you either see the time or the visual indicator, but not both in the same glance.

I don't seem to have any issues with recording and watching... BUT in NYC there have been and are issues with glitches which have no apparent connection with software (i.e. same issues in Passport as MDN).

I had complained already about the time thing. It applies in the guide in general. Be 5 seconds after the hour and you can NOT switch to another channel without a "record a future show" dialog interfering. Yes, if scheduled, it will NOT start recording until about 20 seconds into the show. Sometimes that may cut off the "previously on..." sequence.

These are part of MANY little annoyances, none of which is earth shattering, that annoy them that were so used to Passport.

Look at the clock when recordings stop or start. Does it coincide exactly with the clock "flip"?

It's about 15+ seconds off. My "clock" is dead accurate, within 1 second, I'm kind of a geek about time from my days working in broadcast news (I even use a wrist watch that syncs nightly with an atomic clock)!

It's about 15+ seconds off. My "clock" is dead accurate, within 1 second, I'm kind of a geek about time from my days working in broadcast news (I even use a wrist watch that syncs nightly with an atomic clock)!

The clock is 15 seconds off from your "atomic" watch? ...or the the recordings start/stop 15 seconds off from the clock flip on the box?

If your recordings start/stop with a 15 second offset from the display clock, then its just another one of those magical issues you seem to have with YOUR box, lol.

My recordings ALWAYS start/stop EXACTLY in coincidence with the display clock flipping. Which means that any innacuracies are in the clock (which is broadcast from the headend function) or in the program itself, and not in how Navigator process the schedule.

I'm ignorant when it comes to the technical aspects of the new and old STBs but leaving a "copy to VCR" option and "skip to end of recording" selection would seem to be very minor in terms of hardware and software requirements.You think of it as though functions having been "left out", as though they started with SARA and made something new, adding a bunch of new stuff and leaving other things behind--they didn't. In about a third of their footprint, they were using Passport on their STBs (runs on both Cisco/SA and Moto boxes), which didn't have some of the things that you miss but had many other things which SARA lacks. They decided that they wanted to stop providing a third-party IPG on their leased boxes and bought a small company in Colorado who were developing what became Navigator. I doubt that they actually sat down and made a list of features from the IPGs that TWC was already using to make conscious decisions as to which to include and which to leave out (either before or after being acquired by TWC).

I know what you're going through. A few years back, I moved from a neighborhood served by TWC where I'd been happily using Passport Echo on an Explorer 8300HD to a Cox neighborhood where I was given the same box running your beloved SARA. It had me gnashing my teeth and tearing hanks of my hair out. I'm convinced that the experience took years off my life. After about a month, I cheerfully spent $900 on a TiVo Series3. I swear to you, had there not been an available alternative, I would have stopped recording television altogether.

The clock is 15 seconds off from your "atomic" watch? ...or the the recordings start/stop 15 seconds off from the clock flip on the box?

If your recordings start/stop with a 15 second offset from the display clock, then its just another one of those magical issues you seem to have with YOUR box, lol.

My recordings ALWAYS start/stop EXACTLY in coincidence with the display clock flipping. Which means that any innacuracies are in the clock (which is broadcast from the headend function) or in the program itself, and not in how Navigator process the schedule.

I'm talking about the actual, real time, the kind broadcasters use, not the software's idea of what it is. I know not from clock flips (and don''t care much), it's the fact that prior to this software, they always knew the correct time, now they seem not to. On the hour, the broadcaster starts their "previously..." crawl, 15 seconds later, the recording starts.

I'm talking about the actual, real time, the kind broadcasters use, not the software's idea of what it is. I know not from clock flips (and don''t care much), it's the fact that prior to this software, they always knew the correct time, now they seem not to. On the hour, the broadcaster starts their "previously..." crawl, 15 seconds later, the recording starts.

"Clock Flip" = the instant it changes from 8:59 > 9:00.

You seem to be saying that the displayed time is off by 15 seconds. My point is that THAT is a headend clock issue, nothing to do with Passport vs. Navigator. Still TW's issue, of course.

After I explained the difference between (uncorrected) GPS Time and (leap second corrected) UTC
to TWC-SD, no more problems:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10182552
Atomic Clocks listen to WWV or WWVB, which is UTC.

FWIW: My Vista64 clock was 6 seconds earlier than UTC until I did a manual resync,
so even the latest Microsoft bloatware still doesn't know how to keep on time.....
Techs could also be entering (erroneous) time from what they see on their PC....

"Clock Flip" = the instant it changes from 8:59 > 9:00.

You seem to be saying that the displayed time is off by 15 seconds. My point is that THAT is a headend clock issue, nothing to do with Passport vs. Navigator. Still TW's issue, of course.

I see your point, but I very much noticed this on day one of being gatored, so it's reasonable to assume the software had to have played a role. Hard to imagine they turned back their clocks on the rollout.

Just checked... their clock (in the guide) is within >2 seconds of real time.

So I guess the alien you think that's infecting only my box is at work again<g>?

Ok need some help, just got gatored and occasionally when I hit the guide button not all of my channels show up. If I change the channel all of them show up after I hit the guide button. Any ideas?

Ok need some help, just got gatored and occasionally when I hit the guide button not all of my channels show up. If I change the channel all of them show up after I hit the guide button. Any ideas?

Yes... this is a feature - and a good one - of Navigator.

If you enable "Sort by Favorites", your guide will actually have two guide lists. The first shows only whatever channels you have programmed as favorites... you can use this to customize your guide list to your liking. Immediately after the favorites list, you will get a full channel listing guide.

If you hit GUIDE while watching a favorite channel, you will get dropped into your favorites section of the guide. If you hit GUIDE while on a non-favorite channel, you will be dropped into the full listings. If you are in the full listings and want to be in the favorites only section, just hit the FAV key and you will be transported there.

If you ALWAYS want to see the full guide listing, simply disable the "Sort by Favorites" feature.

Thank you very much. Ive been on the phone twice with TWC and they couldnt give me an answer. You have been a great help.

Thank you very much. Ive been on the phone twice with TWC and they couldnt give me an answer. You have been a great help.

I will readily concede that there are several shortcomings in Navigator. However, much of the user dissatisfaction (especially in conversions) stems from things being different (not worse, just different) with virtually no useful documentation users can rely on to ease the learning curve.

I don't know if TW has a clue that they are doing themselves a disservice by not creating such a document. The cost to create a PDF distributable
conversion guide would be peanuts in the grand scheme of things.

The problem is that they release so many versions of the software that the feature sets vary. I personally think the way they let you manipulate the guide is lame. You should simply be able to customize the guide as you'd like. A simple option to add and delete channels from the guide would suffice.

The problem is that they release so many versions of the software that the feature sets vary. I personally think the way they let you manipulate the guide is lame. You should simply be able to customize the guide as you'd like. A simple option to add and delete channels from the guide would suffice.

But they don't want you to do that, on the off chance that you will see something you like on a channel you don't subscribe and decide to subscribe to it. The problem is that the company is not trying to get you the best DVR experience they can, their goal is to give you a tolerable one (so that you would not leave for satelite beacuse of DVR) and to advance their subscription income.

But they don't want you to do that, on the off chance that you will see something you like on a channel you don't subscribe and decide to subscribe to it. The problem is that the company is not trying to get you the best DVR experience they can, their goal is to give you a tolerable one (so that you would not leave for satellite because of DVR) and to advance their subscription income.

I get why they do it, but it's ridiculous when EVERY other provider allows it! Even DTV Converter boxes do it. I know what I want to watch and shouldn't be forced to scroll through 1000 channels for the few I want. Chances are most subs wouldn't even bother setting the guide up. I'd even settle for a basic Show HD only option at this time. I'm patiently waiting for a two way Tivo. The minute I can get one, my garbage TW DVR goes back.

The problem is that the company is not trying to get you the best DVR experience they can, their goal is to give you a tolerable one ... to advance their subscription income.

That's a good summary of why I'm frustrated. We've become so used to the cable setup - and they do have some of the channels that are 'must haves' for us - that all the 'punishment' I'm doling out to them if I go with the CableCard option and a TiVo box is $10/mo in lost revenue for the DVR, while adding to my costs both (potentially) monthly and for hardware purchase. I do understand from reading comments from TiVoers, though, that the expense is well worth it and I won't regret it.

All still pending, of course...

Agreed, but the main thing holding me back from getting Tivo is the lack of VOD and PPV access. Bottom line is that TW could make a top notch guide if they wanted to, they don't bother because f the above stated reasons.

Tivo is working with Seachange to provide VOD access and possibly PPV for cableco's that use Seachange VOD equipment. Most TWC divisions use Concurrent VOD equipment.

Ok need some help, just got gatored and occasionally when I hit the guide button not all of my channels show up. If I change the channel all of them show up after I hit the guide button. Any ideas?

what model dvr do you have?

8240hdc, but changing the guide settings as mentioned above fixed it for me. I'm now for the most part happy with the navigator software.

But they don't want you to do that, on the off chance that you will see something you like on a channel you don't subscribe and decide to subscribe to it. The problem is that the company is not trying to get you the best DVR experience they can, their goal is to give you a tolerable one (so that you would not leave for satelite beacuse of DVR) and to advance their subscription income.

I think that very much works just fine for many customers who barely use their DVRs... light duty users. Which are probably the large majority. I know it's mostly anecdotal, but I see the more advantage you try and take of the DVR, the more you're anxious to switch somewhere else.

OTOH, I AM curious why there doesn't seem to be a larger uptick in folks going TiVO. Personally I had info for most of 09 I had info from Verizon that FiOS would be available this past August... they missed that, the source of info clammed up tight, the rollout is way, way off the paltry info they gave out about coverage, so it could very well be one or even more years before it's really available to me. So I am now examining TiVO more seriously (there are several things that bother me about TiVO, so it probably is going to come down to which is the worse poison).

jalabria advanced a theory about the cable MSOs possibly preparing for a 2 tier DVR service, one very basic, one more TiVO like. That means what a lot of us are seeing will continue, loss of features and functionality that we now DO have. Like what looks like a future of things like no PIP on the DVR. I find a LOT of plausibility in this... but it also means we will have a period of steadily losing functionality. Price of service will go up, then boom, double what you pay and get a DVR that can do what mine did before the MDN/ODN transition!

Agreed, but the main thing holding me back from getting Tivo is the lack of VOD and PPV access. Bottom line is that TW could make a top notch guide if they wanted to, they don't bother because f the above stated reasons.

I've asked... I am looking to see reasons why folks will NOT go TiVO... in essence, what was the killer. At this point (for me) it's lack of <tru2way> second, but #1 is the fact that if the unit has any issues after 90 days it will cost 50 bucks and after a year it seems the ONLY choice is to buy another unit (refurb which is 200 bucks compared to 300 new).

Tivo is working with Seachange to provide VOD access and possibly PPV for cableco's that use Seachange VOD equipment. Most TWC divisions use Concurrent VOD equipment.

Isn't the issue the lack of a <tru2way> unit from TiVO? PLUS each market's cableco supporting the that standard...

Agreed, but the main thing holding me back from getting Tivo is the lack of VOD and PPV access.

The lack of VOD is holding me back from watching TWC!

Again, as is usual, VOD channels were out again the past weekened with an "error 32 - not available" message. It's not the first time it's happened around here and I know it won't be the last.

Years ago I learned not to bother paying for MOD so I don't have to wait an hour for the movie to be accessible again after pausing it for five minutes.

The only reason I don't go Tivo now, is the damn Cablecards. I'd still have to deal with TWC, still have to give them money for a DVR and still have to deal with the technical issues that could be worse than just plugging in one of their own boxes.

If you enable "Sort by Favorites", your guide will actually have two guide lists...

On my box, I can enable favorites, but I don't have the "Sort by Favorites" option. Hitting "Fav" does flip me thru my favorites, so I get some functionality. But I can't see my favorites grouped together in my Guide. Perhaps I have older software?

Another note. I do have a short 10-page instruction manual for Navigator (which describes my missing "Fav" feature). Did nobody else receive that? I could scan and upload it. Though it only describes very basic features which people here could probably figure out on their own.

On my box, I can enable favorites, but I don't have the "Sort by Favorites" option. Hitting "Fav" does flip me thru my favorites, so I get some functionality. But I can't see my favorites grouped together in my Guide. Perhaps I have older software?

the favorites are collectively dumped in the twilight zone of the guide. Before channel 0 and after all the porn and music.

the favorites are collectively dumped in the twilight zone of the guide. Before channel 0 and after all the porn and music.

Not on my box (8300HD). Is there a way to check my software version? Or force a software update?

the favorites are collectively dumped in the twilight zone of the guide. Before channel 0 and after all the porn and music.

That's one way of looking at it. I tend to look at it the other way... that the full guide is dumped in the twilight zone between my highest and lowest favorite.

I tend to watch HD almost exclusively these days... my favorites list is essentially the entire HD lineup, sans a few channels I could don't give a crap about like Golf and HGTV. Since I only watch HD channels and they also comprise my favorites list, any time I hit the guide button I get sent directly to my custom HD-only guide list.

To me, the full list almost doesn't exist and I actually have to work at it to see it... quickest way usually is to just enter a non-favorite channel number while in the guide.

On my box, I can enable favorites, but I don't have the "Sort by Favorites" option. Hitting "Fav" does flip me thru my favorites, so I get some functionality. But I can't see my favorites grouped together in my Guide. Perhaps I have older software?

Another note. I do have a short 10-page instruction manual for Navigator (which describes my missing "Fav" feature). Did nobody else receive that? I could scan and upload it. Though it only describes very basic features which people here could probably figure out on their own.

we had the "flip thru guide w/ fav button" on passport - when we first went to mystro/navigator about 18 months ago, we switched to the "sort by favs" option. our last major update, that resorted channels by theme, brought back the "flip w/ fav button".

I think i prefer to flip thru with the fav button - if i want to see what's on quickly, and i'm NOT on a favorite, i hit guide, then just push fav to scan thru them. before, i would hit guide, punch in 27 (cartoon network, first fav channel), then scroll with arrows.

the flip w/ favs seems to be a bit more streamlined, to me anyway.

I am now ready to report on the Navigator from SARA. Navigator is the much superior guide compared to SARA. Feature losses in SARA are (1) Record to vcr/dvd burner (2) skip to end of recording option. Gains in Navigator (1) Much nicer looking interface (2) Real series manager that includes series priority management (3) Multible bookmarking that you do not lose if tv is turned off, Sara only gave you one bookmark (no kidding) and if tv got turned off you lost that. (4) jumpback when fast forwording. A feature tivo has that I missed since going to SARA. (5) more information screens. Now there are a couple more things sara had like the wake up and cut off features that were way better than navigator. However all things considered I think once everyone learns how to use the navigator and it can be a bit complicated you will enjoy it. With keyword search comeing it will be great. Oh yea forgot a big Navigator gain over SARA. (6) a real search engine with keyboard search that we have never had as well as keeping the old theme search. So fellow SARA users in my opinon Navigator is a big gain for us. While still not completely up to passport it is slowly getting there. WOODY

That's one way of looking at it. I tend to look at it the other way... that the full guide is dumped in the twilight zone between my highest and lowest favorite.

I say dumped, because that seems to be the mindset TWC were in when they designed Nav.

Other IPGs have separate sections for your favorite channels so you see only those at the push of a button. Others isolate the favorites or make them appear differently in the guide.

TW's solution is something like this:

"What should we do with the favorite channels? Put them in another menu option or filter in the guide?"

"Hmm. That sounds like it might take some effort. Let's just move them all to one place that we don't use for anything except test cards."

They should have added it to the useless A for Access button. It would make more sense having specific items you want to see, rather than an unfiltered list of things you don't need and options that are only a button press away on the remote as it is.

(4) jumpback when fast forwording.

Does it still have the idiotic "jump forward when rewinding?"

I've asked... I am looking to see reasons why folks will NOT go TiVO... in essence, what was the killer. At this point (for me) it's lack of <tru2way> second, but #1 is the fact that if the unit has any issues after 90 days it will cost 50 bucks and after a year it seems the ONLY choice is to buy another unit (refurb which is 200 bucks compared to 300 new).

I have both a Tivo and an 8300HD (MDN Navigator). The Tivo is my backup (office) unit, and the 8300HD is my primary. Here are the reasons that I don't switch them and make the Tivo primary:

1. VOD, etc.
2. No display on the Tivo box, so no channel display or clock display (when off).
3. Tivo does not allow me to do Tivo related operations while watching TV. For example, you cannot view the queue of upcoming recordings while watching TV (recorded or live).
4. I actually like the 8300HD grid better than the Tivo grid; although, the Tivo meta-data is much much better.
5. This is only a minor annoyance, and it is hard to explain, but it is an annoyance. If you're watching 715, and then turn the TV off, and the Tivo box records two shows and finishes recording those two shows. The next morning when you turn the TV on, it will not be tuned to 715.

There are many things that the Tivo is better at, but so far (after two months), I do NOT find it any more (or less) reliable than the TWC box.

In particular, rewind and FF are much better on the Tivo, folders are nice (but not as general in implementation as I had hoped), it is available with lots of disk storage, and it can be programmed via the web.

-barry

The only reason I don't go Tivo now, is the damn Cablecards. I'd still have to deal with TWC, still have to give them money for a DVR and still have to deal with the technical issues that could be worse than just plugging in one of their own boxes.In practice CableCARDs aren't much of an issue. I've used a TiVo Series3 for nearly three years now, moving the box three times (don't ask :rolleyes:): I bought it while living in a Cox system, moved it into TWC and moved again to a second home in TWC territory and am now back in Cox, so I've had four CableCARD installations and a Tuning Adapter. In my experience, any issues with CableCARDs are up front--once you get a pair of stable CableCARDs, it just works and keeps working. They've been significantly flakier than legacy cable STBs, but for the past two years the cable providers have had to use them in their leased equipment so they're gradually becoming much more reliable.

You do pay to lease CableCARDs but it's $4/month for the pair (if I had a TiVo HD, I could use a single card for $2/month), versus $16 or more for a leased DVR with "DVR service" :rolleyes:.

I have both a Tivo and an 8300HD (MDN Navigator). The Tivo is my backup (office) unit, and the 8300HD is my primary. Here are the reasons that I don't switch them and make the Tivo primary:

1. VOD, etc.
2. No display on the Tivo box, so no channel display or clock display (when off).
3. Tivo does not allow me to do Tivo related operations while watching TV. For example, you cannot view the queue of upcoming recordings while watching TV (recorded or live).
4. I actually like the 8300HD grid better than the Tivo grid; although, the Tivo meta-data is much much better.
5. This is only a minor annoyance, and it is hard to explain, but it is an annoyance. If you're watching 715, and then turn the TV off, and the Tivo box records two shows and finishes recording those two shows. The next morning when you turn the TV on, it will not be tuned to 715.

There are many things that the Tivo is better at, but so far (after two months), I do NOT find it any more (or less) reliable than the TWC box.

In particular, rewind and FF are much better on the Tivo, folders are nice (but not as general in implementation as I had hoped), it is available with lots of disk storage, and it can be programmed via the web.

-barry

Thanks for that post Barry. I even was under the impression that Tivo was such a saint compared to the devil of Navigator when looking at the posts on this forum. I don't have Tivo, but based on a composite of people with whom I have talked about Tivo's, there are more options available for power users that what TWC Navigator has.

But I had an interesting discussion. This board represents such a microcosm of a macrocosm community. The mainstream people just want to do the basics, and at times the very basics because they just do not care about advanced features. For instance, my Mother just wants to know how to do the basic general things: Turn on the TV, find one of the five or so channels she watches and that's it. She doesn't even record stuff to the DVR.

To push any kind of new box on general population people, especially elderly people is very frustrating to them. And if 75%-80% have reliable services and can do what they want their equipment to do, than that's cool. However, having said that, I do think that the power users on this board deserve more advanced features than what Navigator can offer. If you are in that 20-25% that want more, you should be able to have access to it.

Comcast has had nightmares working with Tivo Boxes trying to get their cable guides to function on them. This is similar to Navigator's first two horror years of initial roll-out. TWC wants to put multi-room DVR functionality and the ability to have remote DVR viewing in Navigator! (If that happens relatively smoothly, I will be SHOCKED, and may never recover from that shock!)

Navigator's guide data needs to be expanded and more reliable. This is where I heard Tivo is kicking Navigator's ass. I want program descriptions that are detailed like they came from something that is useful. TWC is STILL using TV Guide's data for series and there are things on certain series that are WRONG! especially in program descriptions. The program descriptions are getting better for some channels. But other channels look like they were entered by someone using Twitter!

And I have a feeling that Keyword Search will be out for all boxes (MDN/ODN) sooner, rather than later. I'll bet by first Quarter of next year, we will see some cool new Navigator features!

Jack

They should have added it to the useless A for Access button. It would make more sense having specific items you want to see, rather than an unfiltered list of things you don't need and options that are only a button press away on the remote as it is.

I like the A button for Access Menu. However, for some reason the Sports Now category only shows a few programs in the list at a time and not anywhere near all the Sports programs playing now. HDTV Now, Kids and Family Now, and News and Weather Now, appear to have complete programing information. I have an SA-8300 MDN box.

Vision, you said you don't like the Access Menu? What features do you think should be added to that screen or changed? I do agree that there are several buttons that seem to do the same things and there are things that could be added to Navigator for instance:

1.) We all know that Keyword Search HAS to be added to all boxes and versions. That is critical.

2.) Put a C button prompt in the Time Grid Screen to allow for Searching on that screen where you can search by Title or Keyword.

2.b) Keep the B Button to Find Shows With The Category or Keyboard like it is now. That's fine for me. But when you type on the Keyboard, Titles OR Keywords show in the results screen.

3.) If users only want Keyword or Title Searches, they should be able to press a C button prompt in the Time Grid Screen and up/down arrow to their choice (like Passport.)

4.) Bring back Sort by Favorites to MDN versions 2.4.6-19 and higher.

5.) When a show is no longer available, the DUMBEST CRAP is that it still shows up in the guide when doing Category Searches!!!! B.S!!!! I find a show through searching, press Select and get "No upcoming shows available for this title." But than, WTF is it doing there?!!! How long when a show is no longer offered does it stay like that?

6.) Bring the Nearest Tune feature to all MDN boxes as an option.

* A Navigator tip is that when doing searches when the same subject appears in Search results. (Which is why Keyword Search is needed so badly to narrow choices down.) the newest days and most recent times are always first on the list*

Jack

Thanks for that post Barry. I even was under the impression that Tivo was such a saint compared to the devil of Navigator when looking at the posts on this forum. I don't have Tivo, but based on a composite of people with whom I have talked about Tivo's, there are more options available for power users that what TWC Navigator has.

But I had an interesting discussion. This board represents such a microcosm of a macrocosm community. The mainstream people just want to do the basics, and at times the very basics because they just do not care about advanced features. For instance, my Mother just wants to know how to do the basic general things: Turn on the TV, find one of the five or so channels she watches and that's it. She doesn't even record stuff to the DVR.

To push any kind of new box on general population people, especially elderly people is very frustrating to them. And if 75%-80% have reliable services and can do what they want their equipment to do, than that's cool. However, having said that, I do think that the power users on this board deserve more advanced features than what Navigator can offer. If you are in that 20-25% that want more, you should be able to have access to it.

Comcast has had nightmares working with Tivo Boxes trying to get their cable guides to function on them. This is similar to Navigator's first two horror years of initial roll-out. TWC wants to put multi-room DVR functionality and the ability to have remote DVR viewing in Navigator! (If that happens relatively smoothly, I will be SHOCKED, and may never recover from that shock!)

Navigator's guide data needs to be expanded and more reliable. This is where I heard Tivo is kicking Navigator's ass. I want program descriptions that are detailed like they came from something that is useful. TWC is STILL using TV Guide's data for series and there are things on certain series that are WRONG! especially in program descriptions. The program descriptions are getting better for some channels. But other channels look like they were entered by someone using Twitter!

And I have a feeling that Keyword Search will be out for all boxes (MDN/ODN) sooner, rather than later. I'll bet by first Quarter of next year, we will see some cool new Navigator features!

Jack

San Diego has enhanced guide data that now shows the original airdate. This is for both ODN and possibly MDN. It shows who directed the film and the actors. I think it's the same data but with new tags. It's definitely better and is leading towards keyword search. I have ODN v3.1.3_2.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/14086328@N00/sets/72157622547538388/

Here's a preview of the new guide data on Showtime HD and FN HD.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/14086328@N00/sets/72157622547538388/

Here's a preview of the new guide data on Showtime HD and FN HD.

It appears that the only change (at least from what I have always seen with ODN) is the OAD and Director info.

This is just my on preference. I have had TIVO 4 years ago. I have had PASSPORT (at my beach cabin until one year ago.) Have had SARA and now NAVIGATOR. For myself I liked PASSPORT the best then NAVIGATOR. I would rank TIVO third based on what I use my DVR for, Good TV recording and series management and not a lot of the fancy TIVO stuff. If Navigator gets a keyword search close to PASSPORT I would be happy. I guess I am on a NAVIGATOR high right now after being given heartburn by SARA for 4 years. I can hardly stand to watch my widescreen HD tv in the den with the Commador ugg SARA ipg. Mike Scott knows what I am talking about. His health has just recovered from SARA. NAVIGATOR is not PASSPORT yet but I have a strong feeling the gap is closeing fast. WOODY

I have two SA8300 boxes.... the thing that would make me happy would be the option to power down the hard drives on them...Passport had this and I think I read somewhere in the forums that another TW box also has this with Navigator but mine does not...I have tried the sleep timer...Power on Power off and nothing works....one DVR is in my bedroom...the constant humming makes me crazy it is really loud...I finally plugged the darn thing into a power strip ...I flip a switch and its silent but.....if I am falling asleep I have to get up to do this...I have to wait for it to power up in the morning but that takes very little time...I don't know if it harms the box to do this....all of this would be solved if they would just put that power down back in options.....anyone else bothered by this?

I've run across another 'feature' change with my Navigator 'upgrade' and wonder if anyone here knows of a workaround or if I've just missed something obvious...

My dad enjoys NCIS, so I have it set to record just so we won't miss it by accident. A couple of the features in the series record function are nice. I have it set to record at what I thought was only 8pm ET on Tuesdays. I was looking at my scheduled recordings and noticed that there's an odd repeat from last year scheduled to record on Saturday at 8pm.

IIRC, SARA had an option for 'on this channel in this time slot' which I took to mean Tuesday only at 8pm only on CBS only. It appears that Navigator sees it as any day at 8pm or maybe any day on CBS at 8pm. Question 1 - is there a way to default to just Tuesday at 8pm? (One further thought - I'm not sure I trust the IPG's understanding of what's new and what's a repeat, so if that's my only option, I'll just let this record and then stop or delete it.)

Question 2 - if I can't change the schedule to just get it to record CBS Tuesday at 8pm, is there an exception of some kind to say 'not this one'? I assumed that if I went to delete the scheduled recording on Saturday, I would be deleting the entire series record setting.

Again, thanks to everyone who shares helpful info. In a way, I'm glad the changeover forced me to hunt for info and stumble across these forums - I've gotten some immensely beneficial info in the last week.

If you just set it for "New Episodes Only", "All Showings"... you will get what you want. No exceptions needed. No need to pick the 8pm time slot. Even if you do this with a cable series that airs the new episode multiple times during premiere week, it will only record it once.

I've run across another 'feature' change with my Navigator 'upgrade' and wonder if anyone here knows of a workaround or if I've just missed something obvious...

My dad enjoys NCIS, so I have it set to record just so we won't miss it by accident. A couple of the features in the series record function are nice. I have it set to record at what I thought was only 8pm ET on Tuesdays. I was looking at my scheduled recordings and noticed that there's an odd repeat from last year scheduled to record on Saturday at 8pm.

IIRC, SARA had an option for 'on this channel in this time slot' which I took to mean Tuesday only at 8pm only on CBS only. It appears that Navigator sees it as any day at 8pm or maybe any day on CBS at 8pm. Question 1 - is there a way to default to just Tuesday at 8pm? (One further thought - I'm not sure I trust the IPG's understanding of what's new and what's a repeat, so if that's my only option, I'll just let this record and then stop or delete it.)

Question 2 - if I can't change the schedule to just get it to record CBS Tuesday at 8pm, is there an exception of some kind to say 'not this one'? I assumed that if I went to delete the scheduled recording on Saturday, I would be deleting the entire series record setting.

Again, thanks to everyone who shares helpful info. In a way, I'm glad the changeover forced me to hunt for info and stumble across these forums - I've gotten some immensely beneficial info in the last week.

If you just set it for "New Episodes Only", "All Showings"... you will get what you want.

OK, if it works as advertised I'll give it a try. I thought I read a post saying that the "new episodes" option had worked intermittently after the Navigator upgrade. As a safety net, I guess I can always look ahead and see that what I want is scheduled to record.

One follow up question that brings to mind - what about shows that don't have new episodes? I've started watching Torchwood and Robin Hood on BBCA. Is there a way to say "get any episode you find but record each different episode only once"?

If you just set it for "New Episodes Only", "All Showings"... you will get what you want. No exceptions needed. No need to pick the 8pm time slot. Even if you do this with a cable series that airs the new episode multiple times during premiere week, it will only record it once.

Yep. As has been covered previously in this thread it will record one instance of that episode and that is it. If you delete the 'scheduled' recording before it starts, it will find an airing after that to record. If you delete it after it has started recording or has done so, it will leave it at that. The New Episodes Only option does just what it says on the tin really.

If you just set it for "New Episodes Only", "All Showings"... you will get what you want. No exceptions needed. No need to pick the 8pm time slot. Even if you do this with a cable series that airs the new episode multiple times during premiere week, it will only record it once.

I only wish it would work that way for me. This past week I got two recordings of Curb Your Enthusiasm, and two recordings of Andrew Zimmern:Bizarre World. Both shows air multiple plays of new episodes on the same night and I have both series set as "new eps only, all showings". I guess two recordings are better than none though. :D

the favorites are collectively dumped in the twilight zone of the guide. Before channel 0 and after all the porn and music.

Tried it, didn't like it. The problem is they no longer appear in numerical order... AND it takes either a lot of scrolling, or multiple button presses to present them the "other" way.

This is a UI issue, best way would be to press one of 2 buttons to get directly to the list the way you'd want... like hit A to see faves only, sorted. Hit B to see the full list. Or, once in the guide, have 2 buttons to mean either faves or all.

I have both a Tivo and an 8300HD (MDN Navigator).

-barry

Ah, thanks so much for responding, your comments are appreciated!

I'd be most annoyed by your #3 as I tend to watch and use the guide a LOT. Like during commercial breaks...

Like others, I'm not quick to jump because the the <tru2way> issue... especially as I do not already have a box.

It appears that the only change (at least from what I have always seen with ODN) is the OAD and Director info.

OAD would be an actual update to what Passport always did!

I have two SA8300 boxes.... the thing that would make me happy would be the option to power down the hard drives on them...Passport had this and I think I read somewhere in the forums that another TW box also has this with Navigator but mine does not...I have tried the sleep timer...Power on Power off and nothing works....one DVR is in my bedroom...the constant humming makes me crazy it is really loud...I finally plugged the darn thing into a power strip ...I flip a switch and its silent but.....if I am falling asleep I have to get up to do this...I have to wait for it to power up in the morning but that takes very little time...I don't know if it harms the box to do this....all of this would be solved if they would just put that power down back in options.....anyone else bothered by this?

Some divisions, even on the same version, did have an option to power down drives in Passport (I did not). I had a PIA option of setting both tuners to non-buffering channels.

MDN lost the buffering options Passport had, so the drive goes silent when shutting the box down. BUT it does NOT reduce power draw. So I gain by not having to go through the PIA option, but I lose having that buffer on the last "primary" channel (which I DID very much use at times).

OK, if it works as advertised I'll give it a try. I thought I read a post saying that the "new episodes" option had worked intermittently after the Navigator upgrade. As a safety net, I guess I can always look ahead and see that what I want is scheduled to record.

That would have been moi. Check the guide, every episode during the week is tagged as NEW (this appears to be their "method" of a level of automatic conflict resolution, I think it seriously flawed in that the same end result can be achieved through means where one would NOT have the occasional frak-up). It's an intermittent kind of issue, works correctly BUT with a few exceptions, seemingly tied to specific shows. AND it can frak up one week, but not the next.

Keep in mind we are ONLY talking about cable shows with multiple runs of a new episode during the week after it is really NEW.

Some think it's happening ONLY on my box, but I find that quite hard to believe. Several folks in my market set their series recordings to only the time of the real first run to avoid the issue, so it ain't just me!

I only wish it would work that way for me. This past week I got two recordings of Curb Your Enthusiasm, and two recordings of Andrew Zimmern:Bizarre World. Both shows air multiple plays of new episodes on the same night and I have both series set as "new eps only, all showings". I guess two recordings are better than none though. :D

Don't you have 8300HD/MDN in NYC?

Wasn't going to say, but I got a brand new kind of frak-up. During the real first run I had had 2 shows scheduled plus Curb. Let them both record even though I watched one "live." MDN automatically recorded a subsequent Curb broadcast, just like it should have. EXCEPT it recorded a SD version when the series recording was set to the HD channel!

The problem is they no longer appear in numerical order...

:confused:

I get two concatenated lists that eventually loop around... one section is all channels in numeric order and the other section is the channels I selected to be there... also in numeric order.

San Diego has enhanced guide data that now shows the original airdate. This is for both ODN and possibly MDN. It shows who directed the film and the actors.

as of last night this info is showing up for me to. i assume its the same down in charlotte.

:confused:

I get two concatenated lists that eventually loop around... one section is all channels in numeric order and the other section is the channels I selected to be there... also in numeric order.

Yes, there is one list that has 2 sub-sorts if you will. All the faves prior to channel 0, then all the non-faves. I could swear I had that in 2.4.4.19 (whatever the conversion version was) but someone mention it didn't even exist in MDN and damned if I can find it... I THINK one had to go through a series of button presses in Settings to turn it on or off (sort by favorites).

Moot as I think it was removed in 2.4.6.21. If anyone with a prior version can go to settings/favorites and tell us if there's one or 2 options there will confirm what I think... my ONLY choice is to choose favorites.

In practice CableCARDs aren't much of an issue. I've used a TiVo Series3 for nearly three years now, moving the box three times (don't ask :rolleyes:): I bought it while living in a Cox system, moved it into TWC and moved again to a second home in TWC territory and am now back in Cox, so I've had four CableCARD installations and a Tuning Adapter. In my experience, any issues with CableCARDs are up front--once you get a pair of stable CableCARDs, it just works and keeps working. They've been significantly flakier than legacy cable STBs, but for the past two years the cable providers have had to use them in their leased equipment so they're gradually becoming much more reliable.

You do pay to lease CableCARDs but it's $4/month for the pair (if I had a TiVo HD, I could use a single card for $2/month), versus $16 or more for a leased DVR with "DVR service" :rolleyes:.

Well there's the cards and the other issue is the tuning adapter/brick. I don't want to be exchanging one box for two. I want to remove TWC completely from the system except for the feed and just when it looks like things are heading that way it just gets more messy.

Maybe next year someone (Moxi or Tivo - either will do if Moxi survives) will release an SDV equipped box. At least then it's more streamlined on my already busy AV rack.

Using TWC reminds me of being in a technology bubble from 2002. Meanwhile the rest of the world is moving along rapidly.

Using TWC reminds me of being in a technology bubble from 2002. Meanwhile the rest of the world is moving along rapidly.

As much as it pains many of us here... the majority of TWC's customers are stuck in a technology bubble from well prior to 2002, so there is little business incentive for TWC to keep on the bleeding edge. I know way too many people that continue to watch SD just out of channel number habit... "CBS is Channel 2, dammit, not 702". Keyword search, manual recording, even recording at all is totally lost on them... and they represent the majority.

When I change channels by selecting the channel from the guide the dvr loses the signal to my receiver and I have to turn the receiver off and back on for the picutre to come back. I have the dvr connected to my stereo receiver via HDMI and then from the receiver to the tv via HDMI. I don't have the problem upstairs where the dvr and tv are connected via HDMI.

Is anyone else experiencing this? This just started with the Navigator roll out this week.

When I change channels by selecting the channel from the guide the dvr loses the signal to my receiver and I have to turn the receiver off and back on for the picutre to come back. I have the dvr connected to my stereo receiver via HDMI and then from the receiver to the tv via HDMI. I don't have the problem upstairs where the dvr and tv are connected via HDMI.

Is anyone else experiencing this? This just started with the Navigator roll out this week.

I would suspect that you have a resolution handshaking issue between the box and the AVR. It may have always been there but you may have had SARA set to output only a single resolution so it never came up. Navigator defaults to all resolutions on (source pass-through, essentially). Try unchecking all output resolutions except 1080i in the box setttings and see what happens.

:confused:

I get two concatenated lists that eventually loop around... one section is all channels in numeric order and the other section is the channels I selected to be there... also in numeric order.

LOL!!! It sounds like the Oompa Loompas living in Riverside's box have spead to JC's box!!!

Jack

LOL!!! It sounds like the Oompa Loompas living in Riverside's box have spead to JC's box!!!

Jack

No... Works just the way its supposed to here!

I think our division (cny) have had one to many fizzy lifting drinks....Oh did i mention we still don't have navigator!!!!! tivo series 3 is that much closer now!!!!

As much as it pains many of us here... the majority of TWC's customers are stuck in a technology bubble from well prior to 2002, so there is little business incentive for TWC to keep on the bleeding edge. I know way too many people that continue to watch SD just out of channel number habit... "CBS is Channel 2, dammit, not 702". Keyword search, manual recording, even recording at all is totally lost on them... and they represent the majority.

You are completely correct... but I suspect there's another small factor in there... the trickle down effect. Most of my friends DO exikst in that bubble, but they also tend to look to me for what to do. Not that they 100% follow everything I tell them to do, but in a very tiny way, I do have some influence.

We should start an "Adopt a Technophobe" function!

LOL!!! It sounds like the Oompa Loompas living in Riverside's box have spead to JC's box!!!

Jack

Perish that thought!:D

Yep. As has been covered previously in this thread...

Sorry, I didn't think of that until after I posted. I've been so focused on the people in our area who are getting Navigator upgrades now that I didn't think about the fact that ppl were sure to have covered this earlier in the thread as their areas were upgraded.

I'd be most annoyed by your #3 as I tend to watch and use the guide a LOT. Like during commercial breaks...Note that you can view the guide while continuing to watch TV--TiVo's default "Live Guide" is displayed overlayed on the video. It doesn't do the inset-video thing on other menus, though--it's just a matter of TiVo style. (When they created an IPG for cable providers--Comcast offers it as an option--that was one thing they were required to add). Not much of a problem for me on a DVR--if I want to visit some menu and intend to come back to what I'm watching, I can pause it first or skip back when I do return.

It's interesting to see some other points of view. Barry and Woody are the only people I've heard state a preference for any leased cable box IPG over TiVo (though Woody's use of it four years back is a bit dated and doesn't really count as a judgement of Series3). It hadn't occurred to me that there might even be any such people, but given that there are two, there must be others :D. Passport had a couple of things about it that I liked more than TiVo (though overall it was a huge TiVo rip-off, ripe for infringement litigation), but I didn't prefer it. Three months ago, ODN was so slow and flakey even in the tiny use of it that I made where I lived and at the home of friends, that there's no way that I'd choose it over TiVo, though it's not a bad design overall.

I suppose that my main preference for TiVo is the richness of the guide data and the sophistication of its guide searches. VOD and PPV isn't an issue for me--I bought VOD no more than three times in four years, the last time I used a leased box as my primary STB, and then mostly in curiousity as to how well the technology was working. TiVo has rental downloads from Amazon, Disney, Jaman and Blockbuster (added a couple of days back), as well as streaming from Netflix for subscribers (I'm a long time Netflix sub). I've made a signficant amount of use of that stuff, particularly Netflix, it being provided at no extra charge.

I also like the fact that the device is supported by the service (including storage expansion via external drive) and that they're constantly adding features to it. Though you can call TWC about bugs you find in the interface, I don't get any warm fuzzy feeling that those reports end up in front of anyone who can do anything about it. You report a bug to TiVo and you get a problem report reference number that you can check up on. That's not a guarantee that you'll get results, but it is something. You know it's been documented and entered into a system where it will be considered along with all other bug reports. (Maybe I appreciate this as an engineer whose used such a system from the other side :)).

Though I'm not an archiver, you can transfer stuff from TiVo to HDD on your computer over your LAN, in the original high def--no lousy SD downconversions on DVD and no space-consuming DVDs to physically file and organize. (The significant restriction is that you can't copy off stuff marked with Copy One Gen CCI--a restriction of Federal law--but you'll always be able to transfer anything from your local broadcasters). With free software from TiVo you can set this up to happen automatically and there are third party packages for editing the video. There are people who use this to archive all of their favorite TV series to HDD automatically, with automatic removal of the ads. You can watch this stuff on any PC, stream it to UPnP/DLNA servers (Xbox 360, PS3 and many recent model televisions and disc players) or copy it back to TiVo for viewing. It seems unlikely that the cable providers will ever offer this capability.

You can also program TiVo over the web (I often forget this because I've never had a use for it, but some people are impressed by the idea and other providers like DirecTV and AT&T are recently advertising it). This has been true for several years, and you can do it both from TiVo's site and from Zap2It.com.

To each his own. I've used Passport, SARA (a frickin' nightmare :rolleyes:), Navigator (both MDN and ODN) and TiVo (Series1 and Series3) and I'm happy with TiVo. Passport was a solid second best--Navigator looks to be getting to where it will equal Passport. If/when TiVo introduces a <tru2way> compliant "Series4" model, it will run both ODN and the native TiVo GUI, so those attracted to what TiVo has to offer won't have to choose.

EDIT: I just remembered one HUGE (for me) thing that you could do with Passport and can do with TiVo but you can't do with Navigator which takes it down a gigantic notch in my personal scoring: dynamically switching tuners while viewing. I use this all the freakin' time while watching live TV. A commercial comes up in what I'm watching, I hit PAUSE and switch tuners (the LIVE button on TiVo and PIP SWAP--with no PIP displayed--in Passport) and then channel surf on the other tuner. After a while, I swap back, skip forward past the ads and continue watching the first thing. Sometimes I'll bounce back and forth between two programs using this. It's a game which cannot be played with Navigator which I'd sorely miss. Of course, if you never had the capability to do this, it's not something that you'd miss, but the lack of the capability is a significant problem for me :D.

No... Works just the way its supposed to here!

Very cool!!!!

Jack

Very cool!!!!

Jack

Hell... in 12 months I've only gotten one duplicate recording, and that was immediately after a factory reset wiped out my recording log... My drive swap works... SDV works... VOD works... Just damned lucky I guess.:D

Mike you are correct that TIVO is the premium of the IPG's. No argument with you there. However for what I use it for Navigator does me just fine. I would say it is arround 75% of Passport and closeing fast. It will never be a Tivo but if they add keyword search, prehaps manual recording fix the buffering issue you spoke about. I think it will then be the equal of Passport if not surerior. It will then be about 75% equal to the DVR of TIVO minus all the fancy stuff you use. But to me and I am speaking about just me. Thats close enought. If Time Warner ever offers Tivo I might compare the two but thats a future decision. WOODY

I think our division (cny) have had one to many fizzy lifting drinks....Oh did i mention we still don't have navigator!!!!! tivo series 3 is that much closer now!!!!

I know Abyss!

I mean, WTF are they doing down in your division? They sure DON'T know how to Navigate! :(

I was hoping for you since the SARA transition has FINALLY started in other areas, that you would have it by next month for sure! I mean, seriously, TWC has no excuses now! The rollout of Navigator is going very well in the SARA divisions, even better than many expected with good expectations!

I mean they still have Thanksgiving and Christmas to do this, but the Time to Switch to Tivo by January 1st, 2010 that deadline you gave them...(far more than enough time for them to download it to your box,) is approaching. I mean, this is getting ARISTOPHAINES!!!! (i.e Felix's clue for the word "Ridiculous" in the classic Password episode of The Odd Couple!) LOL!

I cracked up at your Fizzy Lifting Drinks Line!!!! Hehehe!

Jack

I think our division (cny) have had one to many fizzy lifting drinks....Oh did i mention we still don't have navigator!!!!! tivo series 3 is that much closer now!!!!

I think if you ever get Navigator and it works as well as mine you will love it. We have a widesceen in the den that still has SARA. Strangely I find myself watching more and more tv in the bedroom. SARA just looks to bad for words now. Hope you get Gator soon. WOODY

I guess Greensboro is the Lincoln of the SARA divisions. Happy to say we are haveing a lot more pleasant experience with Navigator than they did. WOODY

Well there's the cards and the other issue is the tuning adapter/brick. I don't want to be exchanging one box for two. I want to remove TWC completely from the system except for the feed and just when it looks like things are heading that way it just gets more messy.Having to have a TA is a pain. It can be placed anywhere, though. It has no remote input, so it doesn't have to be out in the open where you can hit it with IR.
Maybe next year someone (Moxi or Tivo - either will do if Moxi survives) will release an SDV equipped box.Not possible short of full <tru2way> implementation, but maybe we will get that.
Using TWC reminds me of being in a technology bubble from 2002. Meanwhile the rest of the world is moving along rapidly.
I don't know whether I'd agree with you about "rapidly". Other than the treacherous (though completely understandable) move to SDV made by the cable companies, in a very clear and open violation of their agreement to support CableCARDs, I don't see where there's much overt progress being made that isn't been tracked in TiVo upgrades (online "digital distribution" of video being one of the bigger movements, and TiVo's all over that, whereas the cable companies are doing what they can to squash it :)).

TiVo is moving as fast as they can, throttled somewhat in their efforts by the cable industry. There's a reason you don't see anyone else with a <tru2way> device at retail yet (other than in a couple of test areas).

My resolution just reset on my box to 480i on everything hd and sd, How do I manually change the resolution on navigator?


Settings/Display/Output Resolution

Having to have a TA is a pain. It can be placed anywhere, though. It has no remote input, so it doesn't have to be out in the open where you can hit it with IR.

Yeah, I held off getting a Tivo for a long time because I didn't like the TA solution - however it really isn't a big deal, it is behind my entertainment center completely out of site/mind.

xnappo

I have both a Tivo and an 8300HD (MDN Navigator). The Tivo is my backup (office) unit, and the 8300HD is my primary. Here are the reasons that I don't switch them and make the Tivo primary:

1. VOD, etc.
2. No display on the Tivo box, so no channel display or clock display (when off).
3. Tivo does not allow me to do Tivo related operations while watching TV. For example, you cannot view the queue of upcoming recordings while watching TV (recorded or live).
4. I actually like the 8300HD grid better than the Tivo grid; although, the Tivo meta-data is much much better.
5. This is only a minor annoyance, and it is hard to explain, but it is an annoyance. If you're watching 715, and then turn the TV off, and the Tivo box records two shows and finishes recording those two shows. The next morning when you turn the TV on, it will not be tuned to 715.

There are many things that the Tivo is better at, but so far (after two months), I do NOT find it any more (or less) reliable than the TWC box.

In particular, rewind and FF are much better on the Tivo, folders are nice (but not as general in implementation as I had hoped), it is available with lots of disk storage, and it can be programmed via the web.

-barry

This post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=879469
is an excellent source for all things Tivo, including links to some videos showing it in action.

As far as I could tell, Tivo's advantages over Navigator are too numerous to mention; here are few that sound the best to me:
1. 30 second skip; all trickplay functions very responsive
2. eSATA supported; can buy larger internal drive, too
3. can remove channels from guide/searches
4. *much* better search; you have to see some examples to appreciate just how much more advanced it is
5. guide data from a better source, much more detailed and good for 2 weeks (this makes searches even better)
6. wishlists (can save search terms and have anything that matches it on any channel auto-record)
7. overlap protection - if shows conflict by < 5 minutes (typically caused by something like House episode that runs 1:02), instead of dropping the conflicting show with lowest priority, it clips the lowest priority show just enough to avoid conflict
8. multiple episodes of the same program are grouped into folders
9. manual recording

Some that are nice, but not as important to me, that other people like a lot:
1. dual live buffers at all times, with ability to pause one, switch to another, then go back, etc.
2. can watch stuff off computer; can dump shows to computer (with some copyright restrictions) for storage or to use free software to remove commercials and then load it back to Tivo
3. Netflix streaming, Amazon Unbox
4. can work with antena, not just cable
5. can be programmed on the web

Tivo's Disadvantages over Navigator:
1. no VOD (I don't particularly care to buy movies, but like free HD VOD)
2. SDV requires tuning adapter (it is free, but yet another box to have; no user interface, but sometimes may need rebooting)
3. can't restrict a series to a specific time slot (but there are workarounds, like manual recording or a fancy wishlist, see the post referenced above for an example)
4. no display of used (or free) space % (there are some workarounds for that, but no convenient way)
5. no clock/channel display on the box when off
6. no watching quarter screen display while in menus


Overall, to me Tivo appears to be way ahead. I am holding off because I do not need 2 Tivos, and would be kicking myself if the next version comes relatively soon and does VOD and has SDV built in. Even if the next one comes without tru2way, but with hardware that can support it (so that it can be added later via software update), I'd be buying immediately.

I also think webDVR programming is coming out eventually. I've heard that ODN may get working eSATA in a future update.

3. can remove channels from guide/searchesI hadn't thought of that--very relevant to recent discussion in this thread disparaging Navigator's handling of "favorite channels". You can go into settings and eliminate each and every channel from being displayed in the guide, if you want to--there's nothing in my guide to which I don't subscribe, and some of that has been eliminated because I never watch it (religious stuff, shopping channels, freebie spanish language channels, etc). It also supports a list of "favorite" channels and you can filter everything else out of the guide display. You can also filter the channels displayed in the guide by those that have programming matching a genre among their current and next seven upcoming titles (I just tried this and eliminated all channels except those that had HD Action Adventure Movies currently on or coming up within their next seven programs). You get to these setting by pressing the ENTER button while viewing the guide.

TiVo has so many little features that it's easy to forget about the ones you never personally bother with :).
Overall, to me Tivo appears to be way ahead. I am holding off because I do not need 2 Tivos, and would be kicking myself if the next version comes relatively soon and does VOD and has SDV built in. Even if the next one comes without tru2way, but with hardware that can support it (so that it can be added later via software update), I'd be buying immediately.I'm afraid it's all or nothing--apparently CableLABs will not license a device for CableCARD which has two-way comm unless it implements OCAP (i.e., tru2way). Otherwise, they might have done that with Series3.

If you're happy with your leased cable box' IPG, be happy. I personally would never have invested in TiVo had I continued to have Passport Echo. Had I been using Passport on TWC back when they migrated to Navigator here over a year ago, I'd probably have bailed in favor of TiVo then as well--it was nearly as horrible (in different ways) as SARA at that time. If I'd moved from somewhere with Passport Echo into a Navigator neighborhood today, I'd have been disappointed in the change, but probably wouldn't feel like I had to have something else immediately.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/14086328@N00/sets/72157622547538388/

Here's a preview of the new guide data on Showtime HD and FN HD.
I thought I seen the data where it showed the original air date. So far on mine now all I'm seeing is the year it aired....I like knowing the air date, that way I don't have to go to IMDB and see what season the episode is from.(I watch a lot of Law & Order replays...lol)

This post:
[url]
2. eSATA supported; can buy larger internal drive, too


Esata is supported

Note that you can view the guide while continuing to watch TV--TiVo's default "Live Guide" is displayed overlayed on the video. It doesn't do the inset-video thing on other menus, though--it's just a matter of TiVo style. (When they created an IPG for cable providers--Comcast offers it as an option--that was one thing they were required to add). Not much of a problem for me on a DVR--if I want to visit some menu and intend to come back to what I'm watching, I can pause it first or skip back when I do return.

Ah, good to hear your thoughts... I read about viewing while in the guide and it sounded like viewing was gone. AND I brain farted on pause!

Like you, I heavily used both tuners at times... which was why I was so aghast at hearing the TWC seemingly decided the 3270 would eliminate PIP! After several weeks of MDN style, the "Passport way" is preferable, but I can live with the MDN way (not that I have any choice!). What I lost was the ability to keep one tuner on the channel it had when I switched while changing channels on the other. With MDN, every time you switch channels, what it HAD been on then becomes that "second" tuner.

That is part of my whole issue with Craptigator, there are MANY little things that for me point backwards... as in losing functionality I had had. Individually they are not enough to really get my goat (although even after understanding the series recording conflict resolution, I think it's as god awful as can be and a MAJOR step backwards), but collectively they make me very disappointed.

So I'm kind of on a campaign to find out what folks think are the WORST things about TiVO!

Not sure if you are as heavily into series recordings as I am, but am curious if you find anything that annoys you about it on TiVO (yes, I DO understand about the issues with search, I had about a dozen "standing" set in Passport [like a favorite artist or director] that can not be done now, but Craptigator supposedly MAY reacquire that capability).

Hell... in 12 months I've only gotten one duplicate recording, and that was immediately after a factory reset wiped out my recording log... My drive swap works... SDV works... VOD works... Just damned lucky I guess.:D

Sounds like you got the good Oompa and I got the bad Loompa!:D

TiVo is moving as fast as they can, throttled somewhat in their efforts by the cable industry. There's a reason you don't see anyone else with a <tru2way> device at retail yet (other than in a couple of test areas).

Ah, that hits one of my buttons. Seems to me the old "cable card" thing would have been good for customers (one paradigm would be an ability to record 2 channels and watch a third one live assuming your TV had a slot) but it seemed to me the cable cabal made damn sure it never went anywhere... witness 2 or so years ago when the TV CE side kinda stopped having sets WITH cable card slots!

Now it seems over a year ago there was a lot for buzz around <tru2way> which SEEMS to be (functionally) cable card 2.0... same authorization scheme plus 2 way communication). I believe there were expectations TiVO would be first to fill the void... and here we are a year later with the same rumors TiVO may intro a Series 4 (most of which I think has to do with it maybe being <tru2way>).

I think the cable cabal makes a ton of money from DVRs, despite the fact many claim it does not. Logically that is the ONLY reason I can see for them to very subtly make sure <tru2way> is hobbled in SOME way to delay it becoming any kind of factor.

Thoughts?

Tivo's Disadvantages over Navigator:
1. no VOD (I don't particularly care to buy movies, but like free HD VOD)
2. SDV requires tuning adapter (it is free, but yet another box to have; no user interface, but sometimes may need rebooting)
3. can't restrict a series to a specific time slot (but there are workarounds, like manual recording or a fancy wishlist, see the post referenced above for an example)
4. no display of used (or free) space % (there are some workarounds for that, but no convenient way)
5. no clock/channel display on the box when off
6. no watching quarter screen display while in menus


Overall, to me Tivo appears to be way ahead. I am holding off because I do not need 2 Tivos, and would be kicking myself if the next version comes relatively soon and does VOD and has SDV built in. Even if the next one comes without tru2way, but with hardware that can support it (so that it can be added later via software update), I'd be buying immediately.

Ah, excellent summary... might have taken hours to come by reading through multi-hundred page threads!

As for #4, surprised they don't have it, BUT the need seems FAR less when you can pop in a 1T drive inside and add external storage at will. #5 makes me laugh... I LIKED how Passport handled it, channel numbers when the box was one, time when off. Craptigator crapped that one up, so when you shut the box down, you get about 30 minutes of clock, then it switches to a channel display... which is TOTALLY useless as the box does NOT buffer anything when off!

BUT, I also think one more has to be added... one that has me very concerned. Having the MSOs box does mean a kind of unlimited warranty. Have an issue. swap the box out. Newer box with better features, swap the box (despite my frustration about getting a 3090, I should be able to get one at some point). The best info I can seem to find about TiVO is that if your box has an issue, it costs 50 bucks from the three to 12 month mark and after that 12 months, you simply buy a refurb. Which seems to mean 200 bucks.

So while the risk of a failing TiVO is probably fairly low, it sure IS there. A cable DVR means no risk at all.

Esata is supported"Supported" by whom? TWC does not advertise or document that an eSATA drive will do anything when plugged into one of their leased DVRs. If you connect one and it fails to work (or stops working at some point after you connect it, when they push a firmware update), don't call them. I doubt that any significant number of support reps in their entire organization are aware that the box has the potential capability, and those who are don't know it from TWC training. A "supported" feature is one for which your equipment supplier guarantees that it will work and is committed to fixing it should it fail. There is no support for eSATA drives on boxes running Navigator and there never has been (nor was there on boxes running Passport; it works perfectly well on SARA and the use of it is explained in detail in Cisco/SA documentation, though I doubt that TWC would help anyone use it). Perhaps they will eventually support eSATA expansion, but who knows if and when?

TiVo, on the other hand, fully supports the use of eSATA expansion drives, though they limit that support to only two models: the Western Digital My DVR Expander 500GB and My DVR Expander 1TB (there's a page about them on TiVo's site, here (http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/howto/getconnected/howto_add_recording_capacity.html)). A way to activate the partially completed feature was discovered by users for Series3 before they officially released it, so you can connect any arbitrary eSATA drive to a Series3; the TiVo HD and TiVo HD XL models shipped after they released official eSATA expansion support and will only accept the WD MD Expanders (there is a difficult and adventurous firmware hack which will overcome this). Regardless of TiVo model, if you call them for help with an expansion drive they'll ping your unit and deny assistance if you're using an unsupported HDD. (Supporting a limited group of drives is extremely understandable, though they should widen the list to a few more products. No doubt the exclusivity gets them a sweeter deal on parts from WD, supplier of their products' internal HDDs :rolleyes:).

Now it seems over a year ago there was a lot for buzz around <tru2way> which SEEMS to be (functionally) cable card 2.0... same authorization scheme plus 2 way communication). I believe there were expectations TiVO would be first to fill the void...Who expected that and why? I certainly didn't. TiVo (little "o"--if you're going to use mixed case, get it right :)) was far from being the first to market with a CableCARD product. Series3 launched in November 2006, 2 years and change after cable providers were required to support CableCARD.
...and here we are a year later with the same rumors TiVO may intro a Series 4 (most of which I think has to do with it maybe being <tru2way>).Almost two years ago, TiVo filed this (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6519815501) ex parte notice to the FCC of their negotiations with CableLabs over their use of OCAP, stating that they had arrived at an agreement that they'd be allowed to create a device with two operating modes: an "OCAP Mode" in which it would run the cable provider's downloaded IPG with no access to DVR functionality (but access to interactive services like VOD, impulse PPV, the multichannel sports tiers and whatever other junk the cable providers might field) and a "TiVo Mode" featuring the native TiVo GUI and DVR function, with no access to provider-downloaded code other than SDV tuning. We have assumed that TiVo has been working on it.

I think the cable cabal makes a ton of money from DVRs, despite the fact many claim it does not. Logically that is the ONLY reason I can see for them to very subtly make sure <tru2way> is hobbled in SOME way to delay it becoming any kind of factor.

Thoughts?I think that they fear loss of flexibility more than loss of profit (I'm one of those who doubt the profitability of leasing cable STBs, or any low cost piece of equipment). They've already been forced to adopt a technology which screwed over unidirectional CableCARD users; when they roll out <tru2way>, they're stuck with whatever hidden limitations it may have for the forseeable future. They are understandably cautious.

As for #4, surprised they don't have it, BUT the need seems FAR less when you can pop in a 1T drive inside and add external storage at will.

My thoughts exactly. I have a 1TB drive in my PC and I don't remember the last time I even considered whether I was close to capacity.

When you have 150 hours of recording potential vs 30 hours, you'll probably be more concerned about how much recorded stuff you still have to watch than if you are going to run out of space.

Having the MSOs box does mean a kind of unlimited warranty. Have an issue. swap the box out. Newer box with better features, swap the box (despite my frustration about getting a 3090, I should be able to get one at some point). The best info I can seem to find about TiVO is that if your box has an issue, it costs 50 bucks from the three to 12 month mark and after that 12 months, you simply buy a refurb. Which seems to mean 200 bucks.

So while the risk of a failing TiVO is probably fairly low, it sure IS there. A cable DVR means no risk at all.The SMT-H3090 (or the 3270, which TWC has rolled out here) is not a necessarily "better" box, just a newer one. Other than a different appearance, it doesn't have any "features" that the Explorer 8300HDC doesn't, insofar as the user is concerned. Reports are that it doesn't even run ODN any faster and ODN works exactly the same way with exactly the same function on any box you run it on, whether that box be coated in precious metals and encrusted with priceless jewels :rolleyes:.

Whether to lease or to own is a dilemma in other areas. Unlike with automobiles, what you propose lease is not equal to what you propose to own, which modifies the decision. It's up to you.

Esata is supported

"Supported" by whom? TWC does not advertise or document that an eSATA drive will do anything when plugged into one of their leased DVRs. If you connect one and it fails to work (or stops working at some point after you connect it, when they push a firmware update), don't call them. I doubt that any significant number of support reps in their entire organization are aware that the box has the potential capability, and those who are don't know it from TWC training. A "supported" feature is one for which your equipment supplier guarantees that it will work and is committed to fixing it should it fail. There is no support for eSATA drives on boxes running Navigator and there never has been (nor was there on boxes running Passport; it works perfectly well on SARA and the use of it is explained in detail in Cisco/SA documentation, though I doubt that TWC would help anyone use it). Perhaps they will eventually support eSATA expansion, but who knows if and when?

TiVo, on the other hand, fully supports the use of eSATA expansion drives, though they limit that support to only two models: the Western Digital My DVR Expander 500GB and My DVR Expander 1TB (there's a page about them on TiVo's site, here (http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/howto/getconnected/howto_add_recording_capacity.html)). A way to activate the partially completed feature was discovered by users for Series3 before they officially released it, so you can connect any arbitrary eSATA drive to a Series3; the TiVo HD and TiVo HD XL models shipped after they released official eSATA expansion support and will only accept the WD MD Expanders (there is a difficult and adventurous firmware hack which will overcome this). Regardless of TiVo model, if you call them for help with an expansion drive they'll ping your unit and deny assistance if you're using an unsupported HDD. (Supporting a limited group of drives is extremely understandable, though they should widen the list to a few more products. No doubt the exclusivity gets them a sweeter deal on parts from WD, supplier of their products' internal HDDs :rolleyes:).

Also, eSATA is known NOT to work with ODN 3*. And I did try to call them when they "upgraded" me from ODN 2.4.10_11 on which eSATA was working fine; of course, they just brushed me off mentioning that it is not supported.

My thoughts exactly. I have a 1TB drive in my PC and I don't remember the last time I even considered whether I was close to capacity.

When you have 150 hours of recording potential vs 30 hours, you'll probably be more concerned about how much recorded stuff you still have to watch than if you are going to run out of space.

True, but it is an issue if you have unmodified smaller internal drive with no eSATA. It is not hard to do at all, but Tivo refuses to do it on the account that it will only confuse users, since "it is not completely clear what exactly is the free space". Tivo has an Undelete folder where all the deleted stuff resides until space is needed (so you can go there and undelete it), and it also records Suggestions, i.e. shows that it thinks you may like (you can disable this), so the drive is actually completely full all the time (except for some initial period). Of course, Undelete and Suggestions are deleted before any regular show. IMO, that is a totally bogus excuse, free space should clearly be total drive space - regular shows, or at least they can show a couple of different answers marked, say, With Suggestions and Without Suggestions, but not everybody agrees. Tivo people (and some of their users) can be very stuborn. They did not implement time slots for series recording for some similar stupid reason. On the other hand, they do give you more goodies than anybody else.

One thing that I do hate about Navigator,

Like today with all the Football games, the fact that because the listings only show TITLES when you do a THEME search, you have to go to about 20 different tiers and open each one up before you can see the game that you are looking for. And very very few people are going to know that the information is organized by the first letter of the Title in a search, (exceptions are the letter A and the word "the.") In these cases the second word's first letter is used. But who is going to think, "Oh, I have to go to "C" to bring up titles of College Football and than scroll through 20 choices to find a game?"

Can anyone elaborate how Passport and SARA did these kinds of searches? I would think that when you go to do a Football Search, the TEAMS of what is showing should be listed, NOT the titles of what type of football game it is! How should Navigator improve on this in future software updates?

Brining up titles is OK for Movies because you know the name of what you want, or say for example, Arts, or Cooking, because the title is easy to identify with the show. But with 30-40 football or baseball games on the weekends there has to be a faster way to actually see what teams are playing! This is such a downside of Navigator!

Do you think Keyword Search will solve this problem? I do!

Jack

...

BUT, I also think one more has to be added... one that has me very concerned. Having the MSOs box does mean a kind of unlimited warranty. Have an issue. swap the box out. Newer box with better features, swap the box (despite my frustration about getting a 3090, I should be able to get one at some point). The best info I can seem to find about TiVO is that if your box has an issue, it costs 50 bucks from the three to 12 month mark and after that 12 months, you simply buy a refurb. Which seems to mean 200 bucks.

So while the risk of a failing TiVO is probably fairly low, it sure IS there. A cable DVR means no risk at all.

That's very true. However there are other factors.
1. This matters only if Tivo breaks fairly soon, but after 3 months. You keep paying for the lease, while you can get lifetime Tivo subscription, so after some years, (granted, not soon), you break even and then MSO box keep costing you probably at least $10 month more than $2 or so a cable card for Tivo costs you.
2. this is just a guess, but I am fairly convinced that a box with better features from MSO is going to take a long time. Which current box has better features than the (fairly old) 8300HD? 8300HDC is more or less the same, and Samsungs provide basically nothing new, except for bugs ;) and maybe larger hard drive.
3. I've heard from usually very reliable people that if Tivo dies on you, chances are very high that it is a hard drive, and you can just pop in another one for way less than $200. Of course, if you don't want to open it, yes, you do pay that much.
4. MSO DVR features are and will be inferior, as they are crippled by their political decisions - their main thing is selling you subscriptions to their services, not DVR features. Do you expect that you'll get things like 30 second skip or ability to remove channels in Navigator in a year or two or ever?

I would suspect that you have a resolution handshaking issue between the box and the AVR. It may have always been there but you may have had SARA set to output only a single resolution so it never came up. Navigator defaults to all resolutions on (source pass-through, essentially). Try unchecking all output resolutions except 1080i in the box setttings and see what happens.




Thanks - setting the output resolution to 1080i only did the trick.

I've been getting a lot of video playback break-up and freezes on my 8300HD since the switch from Passport to Navigator. It's as if Navigator repeatedly tries to record on bad sectors of the hard drive while Passport knew to skip them. Is this a possible explanation? Or is my hard drive just coincidentally dying at the same time as the Navigator "update"?

I've only had this particular 8300HD unit for about 3 months; so the hard drive isn't very old (unless it's been reconditioned).

I think Navigator is getting close to Passport in 2006 but maybe not Passport 2009.

The SMT-H3090 (or the 3270, which TWC has rolled out here) is not a necessarily "better" box, just a newer one. Other than a different appearance, it doesn't have any "features" that the Explorer 8300HDC doesn't, insofar as the user is concerned. Reports are that it doesn't even run ODN any faster and ODN works exactly the same way with exactly the same function on any box you run it on, whether that box be coated in precious metals and encrusted with priceless jewels :rolleyes:.

Whether to lease or to own is a dilemma in other areas. Unlike with automobiles, what you propose lease is not equal to what you propose to own, which modifies the decision. It's up to you.

Except that it's quieter.

Not sure if you are as heavily into series recordings as I am, but am curious if you find anything that annoys you about it on TiVO (yes, I DO understand about the issues with search, I had about a dozen "standing" set in Passport [like a favorite artist or director] that can not be done now, but Craptigator supposedly MAY reacquire that capability).I have 39 "Season Passes" on my Series3 (now that I've just eliminated a bunch of ended and cancelled deadwood :rolleyes:). They work just fine, though I wish there were a few more features. It'd be nice, for instance, if there were day-of-week and time-of-day restrictions (Passport added day-of-week). I'd also like to see optional padding: "start recording this 3 minutes early and continue recording for three minutes after the end time, cancelling any padding which overlaps another scheduled recording". (You can specify start early and stop late, but it will truncate overlapping lower priority recordings).

Note the existence of Wishlist Recordings--"Wishlists" are saved and labelled complex search patterns. You can specify keyword(s)-in-title, keyword(s)-anywhere, actor(s), director(s) and category: "high definition science fiction movies directed by Steven Spielberg, starring Tom Cruise". Once a Wishlist Search is defined, you can use it to search the current guide data for matches and optionally specify that TiVo should be on the look-out for matches, automatically recording any that occur.

There's also a sort of speculative recording thing called "TiVo Suggestions". TiVo pays attention to things that you watch and record and if you ask it to, will automatically record things that it think that you might like based on that information. You can strengthen its speculation by commenting on the things that you watch (live or recorded) with the "Thumbs Up" and "Thumbs Down" remote buttons, giving anything a rating of up to three or either. Like Wishlists, you can ask it to just show you what's in the guide that it thinks that you'd enjoy or have it automatically record such things (if it runs out of space, Suggestions are, of course, deleted first). I always turn this off (I think that its on by default) but there are people who adore it.

I've been getting a lot of video playback break-up and freezes on my 8300HD since the switch from Passport to Navigator. It's as if Navigator repeatedly tries to record on bad sectors of the hard drive while Passport knew to skip them. Is this a possible explanation? Or is my hard drive just coincidentally dying at the same time as the Navigator "update"?

I've only had this particular 8300HD unit for about 3 months; so the hard drive isn't very old (unless it's been reconditioned).

I've heard of this more than once before; my guess is that there is something slightly flaky about your setup (either the box or the signal) that Passport is robust enough to handle, but Navigator isn't. This is consistent with some people having issues and others not having them, or the same person having issues with one box and not with the other, even though the boxes are the same model and the software the same version. I'd suggest you check the signal, and if it is OK, swap the box. I'd get another box, see if it works OK, and if it does, return the old one; price for a few days of having both boxes is prorated (at least in my area), so it will not be much. It also gives you a chance to watch the stuff yoy recorded already.

My thoughts exactly. I have a 1TB drive in my PC and I don't remember the last time I even considered whether I was close to capacity.

When you have 150 hours of recording potential vs 30 hours, you'll probably be more concerned about how much recorded stuff you still have to watch than if you are going to run out of space.

Actually, it's more like >20 hours. After being MDNed, with 4-6 hours of shows recorded, I almost always see "warnings" in the show list. Part of that is due to the time period for a warning going from 48 to 72 hours, BUT it's like hitting you in the face with disaster if you don't watch everything within a day or recording it.

TiVo, on the other hand, fully supports the use of eSATA expansion drives, though they limit that support to only two models: the Western Digital My DVR Expander 500GB and My DVR Expander 1TB (there's a page about them on TiVo's site, here (http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/howto/getconnected/howto_add_recording_capacity.html)).

While I can't say I'm overjoyed at such limited choice, the 1T WD is very reasonably priced... not that much additional savings can be had with a DIY solution. I know some get religious about their choice of HDDs, but I've been using a LOT of HDDs for 20 years and have no reason to think WDs are inherently or appreciably inferior to any other drive. The ONLY drive models over all those drives (I currently have 11) that had a consistent issue were the earliest Barracudas... which ran so hot they could fry eggs. I had a pair and one got replaced three times, the third being a lucky charm as it ran much cooler (and never failed).

The SMT-H3090 (or the 3270, which TWC has rolled out here) is not a necessarily "better" box, just a newer one. Other than a different appearance, it doesn't have any "features" that the Explorer 8300HDC doesn't, insofar as the user is concerned. Reports are that it doesn't even run ODN any faster and ODN works exactly the same way with exactly the same function on any box you run it on, whether that box be coated in precious metals and encrusted with priceless jewels :rolleyes:.

Whether to lease or to own is a dilemma in other areas. Unlike with automobiles, what you propose lease is not equal to what you propose to own, which modifies the decision. It's up to you.

From what I've read, the 3090 is said to run faster than a HDC and be quieter. Of course, functionality is the same as both those boxes run the same ODN. The BIG differentiator is it appears the 3090 CAN be field upgraded to a 320G Pipeline drive. That one is HUGE for me.

I also understand the 3270 does away with PIP... while it seems it comes with a 320G drive installed. I use that a LOT, so I would not accept a 3270... even though at this point it's mostly luck getting a 3090 here and not one 3270 have surfaced in NY.

True, but it is an issue if you have unmodified smaller internal drive with no eSATA. It is not hard to do at all, but Tivo refuses to do it on the account that it will only confuse users, since "it is not completely clear what exactly is the free space". Tivo has an Undelete folder where all the deleted stuff resides until space is needed (so you can go there and undelete it), and it also records Suggestions, i.e. shows that it thinks you may like (you can disable this), so the drive is actually completely full all the time (except for some initial period). Of course, Undelete and Suggestions are deleted before any regular show. IMO, that is a totally bogus excuse, free space should clearly be total drive space - regular shows, or at least they can show a couple of different answers marked, say, With Suggestions and Without Suggestions, but not everybody agrees. Tivo people (and some of their users) can be very stuborn. They did not implement time slots for series recording for some similar stupid reason. On the other hand, they do give you more goodies than anybody else.

Are you saying TiVo has no warnings when it looks at what is recorded and what is scheduled and there's a possibility something may have to get deleted?

Of course, that kind of feature is HUGE when you barely have 20 hours possible, BUT even with a 1T drive, the tendency may be to keep stuff around too long until you lose something without any warning?

As for "time slots" do you mean it doesn't take into account you have 6 hours of series recordings scheduled for the next three nights?? Then again if it has no warnings of any potential deletions, that's seems moot, no?

Understand I am NOT trying to dis anything, just asking questions so I
know "more" about going with a TiVo.

That's very true. However there are other factors.
1. This matters only if Tivo breaks fairly soon, but after 3 months. You keep paying for the lease, while you can get lifetime Tivo subscription, so after some years, (granted, not soon), you break even and then MSO box keep costing you probably at least $10 month more than $2 or so a cable card for Tivo costs you.
2. this is just a guess, but I am fairly convinced that a box with better features from MSO is going to take a long time. Which current box has better features than the (fairly old) 8300HD? 8300HDC is more or less the same, and Samsungs provide basically nothing new, except for bugs ;) and maybe larger hard drive.
3. I've heard from usually very reliable people that if Tivo dies on you, chances are very high that it is a hard drive, and you can just pop in another one for way less than $200. Of course, if you don't want to open it, yes, you do pay that much.
4. MSO DVR features are and will be inferior, as they are crippled by their political decisions - their main thing is selling you subscriptions to their services, not DVR features. Do you expect that you'll get things like 30 second skip or ability to remove channels in Navigator in a year or two or ever?

Yes I DO understand the "monthly" nut is strictly for service, you pay for the hardware ("lease" means to me what the MOSs do, I wouldn't use that term for TiVo).

I certainly wold expect to get many years of service from the hardware, only mentioning worst case scenarios! Proper due diligence demands that, wouldn't you say?

I'd say chances are VERY high I'd be ditching TWC for FiOS... although at this point it could very well be one year plus before I CAN do that. I WOULD count on being able to transfer any TiVo hardware/service at such time.

I've been getting a lot of video playback break-up and freezes on my 8300HD since the switch from Passport to Navigator. It's as if Navigator repeatedly tries to record on bad sectors of the hard drive while Passport knew to skip them. Is this a possible explanation? Or is my hard drive just coincidentally dying at the same time as the Navigator "update"?

I've only had this particular 8300HD unit for about 3 months; so the hard drive isn't very old (unless it's been reconditioned).

I suspect what you are seeing has little to do with the software. This really is a well known issue in NYC, it got worse when they added so many HD channels... but has been around for years. I have NOT noticed it being any less or worse with the MDN upgrade. So while I repeat my opinion the software is garbage, I do NOT attribute that issue to the software. As some are specific and long standing (take 705, the Fox channel) they seem to point to an inability for them to provide a "clean" signal." Like the first Yankee game of both the ALDS and ALCS, even though both were in totally different networks.

I have 39 "Season Passes" on my Series3 (now that I've just eliminated a bunch of ended and cancelled deadwood :rolleyes:). They work just fine, though I wish there were a few more features. It'd be nice, for instance, if there were day-of-week and time-of-day restrictions (Passport added day-of-week). I'd also like to see optional padding: "start recording this 3 minutes early and continue recording for three minutes after the end time, cancelling any padding which overlaps another scheduled recording". (You can specify start early and stop late, but it will truncate overlapping lower priority recordings).

Note the existence of Wishlist Recordings--"Wishlists" are saved and labelled complex search patterns. You can specify keyword(s)-in-title, keyword(s)-anywhere, actor(s), director(s) and category: "high definition science fiction movies directed by Steven Spielberg, starring Tom Cruise". Once a Wishlist Search is defined, you can use it to search the current guide data for matches and optionally specify that TiVo should be on the look-out for matches, automatically recording any that occur.

There's also a sort of speculative recording thing called "TiVo Suggestions". TiVo pays attention to things that you watch and record and if you ask it to, will automatically record things that it think that you might like based on that information. You can strengthen its speculation by commenting on the things that you watch (live or recorded) with the "Thumbs Up" and "Thumbs Down" remote buttons, giving anything a rating of up to three or either. Like Wishlists, you can ask it to just show you what's in the guide that it thinks that you'd enjoy or have it automatically record such things (if it runs out of space, Suggestions are, of course, deleted first). I always turn this off (I think that its on by default) but there are people who adore it.

All very interesting.

On the theory I think it relevant to speak about what competing software does in a Navigator thread, leaving aside all the minor-ish things that seriously annoy me, the whole "automated conflict resolution" for series recordings has me almost seriously wanting to toss the box off my terrace, I'm curious about how TiVo handles this.

Are you saying TiVo has no warnings when it looks at what is recorded and what is scheduled and there's a possibility something may have to get deleted?

Of course, that kind of feature is HUGE when you barely have 20 hours possible, BUT even with a 1T drive, the tendency may be to keep stuff around too long until you lose something without any warning?

As for "time slots" do you mean it doesn't take into account you have 6 hours of series recordings scheduled for the next three nights?? Then again if it has no warnings of any potential deletions, that's seems moot, no?

Understand I am NOT trying to dis anything, just asking questions so I
know "more" about going with a TiVo.

There are warnings, just not something like "80% of space used" that Navigator provides

Time slots for series recording is something like this: you can set a series to record NFL Live on ESPNHD any day it shows but at 4 pm only, or Daily Show on Comedy Central at 11pm only. This is handly when a show has poor guide data like those two, without clear distinctioon what is a New episode.
Navigator can do this, Tivo can not. This seems like a very easy feature to add (MDN had it years ago), and it obviously can be useful sometimes, so they are not adding it not because of usual reasons (nobody would want this, or it is hard to do and we have other priorities), but for some weird reason. Granted, on Tivo you can have some workarounds, like manual recording - i.e. set it to record anything weekdays at 4pm on ESPNHD - and it will actually name each recording by whatever the guide has at the time, but will not skip recording if something else is on, or adjust if the show runs a bit longer or shorter, so it is not the same thing. For Daily Show, you can use a workaround using wishlists.

Again, you can find almost all answers about TivoHD here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=879469
It is just one post, albeit a very long one, and well organized.

How do you clear the shows out of the On-Demand In-Progress tab? They used to have a remove from list option now I have a whole season of Curb Your Enthusiasm I want to remove and there isn't an option to get rid of those.

From what I've read, the 3090 is said to run faster than a HDC and be quieter. Of course, functionality is the same as both those boxes run the same ODN.hdtvfan2005 has a 3270 and he responded to my comment to say merely that it was quieter. Perhaps he can comment on the speed relative to the 8300HDC, which he also has.
The BIG differentiator is it appears the 3090 CAN be field upgraded to a 320G Pipeline drive. That one is HUGE for me.Ah, you mean that it can be vandalized by you to place your own HDD in it :rolleyes:. This is clearly illegal and an actionable violation of contract, since you probably signed this (http://help.twcable.com/html/twc_sub_agreement2.html) (or a very similar) service agreement, containing the following clause:
(d) I will not, nor will I allow others to, open, alter, misuse, tamper with or remove the TWC Equipment as and where installed by TWC or use it contrary to this Agreement, the Terms of Use, or the Tariff(s). I will not, nor will I allow others to, remove any markings or labels from the TWC Equipment indicating TWC ownership or serial or identity numbers. I will safeguard the TWC Equipment from loss or damage of any kind, including accidents, breakage or house fire, and will not permit anyone other than an authorized representative of TWC to perform any work on the TWC Equipment.
I also understand the 3270 does away with PIP... while it seems it comes with a 320G drive installed. I use that a LOT, so I would not accept a 3270... even though at this point it's mostly luck getting a 3090 here and not one 3270 have surfaced in NY.Well then, you can stop considering TiVo, since it doesn't do PIP either. Not a problem for me, since I can do the pause-and-switch-to-other-tuner thing.

The 3270 has a much more refined FF and REW algorithm. It runs ODN very nicely though it has it's little issues. The FiOS DVR doesn't support eSATA or any HDD over 160 GB but they're working to launch a Cisco DVR that has a 320 GB HDD with working eSATA.

Sounds like you got the good Oompa and I got the bad Loompa!:D

Hahahahaha!!!

Actually Riverside, I think that you are the one that STOLE Fizzy Lifting Drinks from TWC's factory and Glen Britt (CEO Pres) put Oompa Loompas in your box and the Oompa Loompas like to play with the Series Recording Manager Settings! LOL!

As for JC,

Hell... in 12 months I've only gotten one duplicate recording, and that was immediately after a factory reset wiped out my recording log... My drive swap works... SDV works... VOD works... Just damned lucky I guess.

He gave an Everlasting Gobstopper to Mr. Britt and got this new special Super Navigator box!!! Watch, he'll be the first to get Keyword Search and Manual Recording when no one else does!!!!! hahahaha!

And poor Abyss!!!!

I think our division (cny) have had one to many fizzy lifting drinks....Oh did i mention we still don't have navigator!!!!! tivo series 3 is that much closer now!!!!

He can't even get in to TWC's factory to see Navigator!!! Oh, he just looks up at the locked gates and the Time Warner Cable lights that blink on and off. Than some man (Abyss thinks it was a Tinker) came up to him and said:

"Up the airy mountain
Down the Russian Glen
We Dare Not Go A-Hunting
For Fear of Little Men!
You see, nobody ever goes in! And nobody ever comes out!!!" LOL!

Abyss is going to have to wait till his TWC-New York division gives out "Gator Bars!" The 5 lucky people to find Golden Gator Tickets in their Gator Bars get a perfectly functioning latest version of Navigator immediately downloaded to their boxes!!

Good one satch !!!! :) ....that's ok i 'll get a new and improved gobstopper when i purchase Tivo series 3 !!!! Don't really care don't watch alot of video on demand in living room and never order PPV i already have a netflix account this should work well with the tivo when i get one. Plus i have a pc to tv to stream movies from netflix and fearnet.

Again, you can find almost all answers about TivoHD here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=879469
It is just one post, albeit a very long one, and well organized.

Ah, thanks. Saw that link, but was busy and didn't scroll through it, thanks for reminding me... yup, it does seems to have everything I need to know!

Ah, you mean that it can be vandalized by you to place your own HDD in it :rolleyes:. This is clearly illegal and an actionable violation of contract, since you probably signed this (http://help.twcable.com/html/twc_sub_agreement2.html) (or a very similar) service agreement, containing the following clause:

Well then, you can stop considering TiVo, since it doesn't do PIP either. Not a problem for me, since I can do the pause-and-switch-to-other-tuner thing.

I sure hope your whole "vandalize" thing is very tongue in cheek!

Wow, no PIP! Craptigator can't do the "pause and..." thing... but eventually there will be no PIP for TWC. Sounds like an opportunity for TiVo in their next hardware release ( along with live viewing in a window when in the guide rather than the overaly thing).

The 3270 has a much more refined FF and REW algorithm. It runs ODN very nicely though it has it's little issues. The FiOS DVR doesn't support eSATA or any HDD over 160 GB but they're working to launch a Cisco DVR that has a 320 GB HDD with working eSATA.

Uh, exactly what does "more refined FF and REW algorithm" actually mean? I found Passport and MDN to be very similar in fast modes, both have 15 minute jumps, and most important, when FFing, they jump back a bit when you hit play. VERY useful watching a commercial laden network show. At FF speed by the time you recognize it's back to the show, that point is up to minute into it, BUT when it goes to normal speed, you're MUCH closer to the end of the commercial. Actually, MDN goes back just a tad farther than Passport.

MDN does lack the highest speed of Passport, but once I found the 15 minute skip thing, that speed was not necessary.

Seems to me what I described is exactly how I'd want it to work.

Uh, exactly what does "more refined FF and REW algorithm" actually mean? I found Passport and MDN to be very similar in fast modes, both have 15 minute jumps, and most important, when FFing, they jump back a bit when you hit play. VERY useful watching a commercial laden network show. At FF speed by the time you recognize it's back to the show, that point is up to minute into it, BUT when it goes to normal speed, you're MUCH closer to the end of the commercial. Actually, MDN goes back just a tad farther than Passport.

MDN does lack the highest speed of Passport, but once I found the 15 minute skip thing, that speed was not necessary.

Seems to me what I described is exactly how I'd want it to work.

Can't speak for the 3270, but on the 3090 the transport features are the same as the 8300 series, but the behavior of the FF & REW are different and take a bit of getting used to. On the 8300 series, in FF/REW, it seems to me that that the interval between individual samples that you see during FF & REW are fixed, but the rate at which they pass increases as you go from 1x to 2x to 3x. This gives you a sense of increasing speed as you go from 1x>2x>3x. In the 3090, the rate that the samples change is fixed, with the samples just taken at wider intervals. The net effect is that 1x, 2x and 3x all appear to move at the same same speed visually... making it a little tougher to judge things, especially at first.

It's one of the few things I really preferred in the 8300HDC over the 3090... but its not terrible either.

My 3270 does make an HDD noise but it isn't as loud as the 8300HDC. You have to be right next to it to hear it. If you're at a distance then you should be fine. I think it makes the perfect bedroom DVR as it's fairly silent.

The 3270 REW and FF look like an improved version of the 3090's. It does go faster for each speed but it does take getting used to. It's much smoother than the one on the 8300HDC. The 3270 is my secondary DVR while my 8300HDC is the primary DVR.

I sure hope your whole "vandalize" thing is very tongue in cheek!Not in the slightest. What word do you use to describe modifying someone else's property, not only without their permission but when they've made you sign an explicit agreement not to do it? (I've signed an agreement like that every time I've become a TWC sub and have the yellow carbons in my files--which I should dump, of course :rolleyes:. I wouldn't violate it just as a point of personal honor, but different people view their responsibility to signed contracts differently).

I strongly doubt that TiVo will implement any kind of inset video window thing. It's just a matter of TiVo style. Never had it, probably never will. As I said before, people have been banging on them to put scheduled-to-be-recorded indicators in their guide for years and they've staunchly ignored the demand, though they did it in the version of their IPG they created for Comcast, probably at Comcast's insistence.

Could ALSO be a question of who has the IP rights....and whether
TiVo has any lawsuits past or pending with the IP owners.....
Esp. given that lawsuits seem to be TiVo's primary source of income.....

The 3270 can support dual buffers but Samsung chose not to enable that feature. The Motorola DCX3400 uses the same CPU as the 3270 and it can do dual buffers.

Not in the slightest. What word do you use to describe modifying someone else's property, not only without their permission but when they've made you sign an explicit agreement not to do it? (I've signed an agreement like that every time I've become a TWC sub and have the yellow carbons in my files--which I should dump, of course :rolleyes:. I wouldn't violate it just as a point of personal honor, but different people view their responsibility to signed contracts differently).

I strongly doubt that TiVo will implement any kind of inset video window thing. It's just a matter of TiVo style. Never had it, probably never will. As I said before, people have been banging on them to put scheduled-to-be-recorded indicators in their guide for years and they've staunchly ignored the demand, though they did it in the version of their IPG they created for Comcast, probably at Comcast's insistence.

Never signed any such "contract." Nor has TWC lived up to supplying the services I pay for... not have they treated their customers equally, for years they stuck it to my because of my location.

Wow, no "to be recorded" notices in the Guide... never would have thought to even ask whether they did that or not. Sounds like Apple and their one-button mouse, is Steve Jobs the majority shareholder?

Never signed any such "contract."You never signed a work order after installation? The residential service subscriber agreement is part of it, at least in the places where I've been a TWC sub. Maybe they do business differently New York. If not, then you've probably signed a copy every time they come to your house to do anything. Your complaints sound like reasons for dumping their service, not for taking license with their property.
Wow, no "to be recorded" notices in the Guide... never would have thought to even ask whether they did that or not. Sounds like Apple and their one-button mouse, is Steve Jobs the majority shareholder?I have no idea what their deal is with that. It's only occasionally annoying (I see something in the guide and think, "I want to make sure that I record that", then go in to record it and find out that it's already scheduled. A minor but avoidable waste of my time). They've been developing a revamped GUI to take advantage of HD resolution--maybe they'll finally add some of the little things some of us have wanted.

As I said, they added those indicators to the IPG that they developed for Comcast (which I think they've sold to others, though it's been pretty buggy to start with). If you're interested, there's a page about the Comcast TiVo guide option here (http://www.comcast.com/Tivo/) and a PDF manual for it here (http://www.comcast.com/MediaLibrary/1/2/CM/VanityURL/documents/TiVo/TiVoViewersGuide.pdf). The cable box version of TiVo doesn't have TiVo's Live Guide, just a version of the Grid Guide, which the normal TiVo has as well, also overlayed on full screen video. Regular TiVo's Grid Guide only has one iconic marker on entries, an "HD" indicator; the Comcast version has indicators for "manual recording", "season pass recording", "wishlist auto-recording" and "won't record due to conflict". I'd love to have all of those

Still waiting for the next version of ODN to come out.

Never signed any such "contract."
Probably gave you notice (link to webpage) in fineprint on one of your bills and/or an insert in your bill....
Continuing monthly payments are the same as written consent.....

You can find the standard system-wide agreement in the bottom right corner of
most (all?) TWC home webpages:
http://help.twcable.com/html/policies.html
Note that they reserve the right to change it whenever it suits their fancy.....
There are several paragraphs re tampering with equipment, incl theft of service....
They might even charge the latter if they suspect equipment had been tampered....

I had a new one... for the first time since the upgrade (and before, for that matter), I got an error message that the DVR controls were unavailable and I should try again later. Everything worked shortly thereafter and has been fine since.

My box just shut down, and is now counting down from r400-something.

Something's being downloaded? I have no idea.

r300s now.

r200s.

It just stopped at r039.

I HAVE A NEW VERSION OF MDN!!!!

Atlas v.2.4.6-19-ptv (Mt. Sherman)

WHAT!?!?!

Y'know, I had noticed that for the past day or two, there was a graphical glitch on the Program Guide in which the Time Warner Cable logo on the lower-left of the guide went missing, replaced by some strange yellow glitchy lines.

I'm not sure yet what's new with this version of MDN. I think I now have Smithsonian HD On Demand, and a lot of channels now have logos on the top-left of the guide, when previously they didn't have any. Some channels got new logos.

I HAVE A NEW VERSION OF MDN!!!!

Atlas v.2.4.6-19-ptv (Mt. Sherman)

WHAT!?!?!

Weird stuff seems to be happening... on the conversion I got 2.4.6.21. Reasonable assumption is everyone in NYC got the same version. Noticed that yesterday my box re-booted around 9 AM... wasn't me, box was off, had to be TWC doing SOMETHING.

Still have 2.4.6.21. Maybe they were eliminating the Ooompa-Loompas from my box?