Yesterday morning some of us in Charlotte with ODN boxes got some mystery reboots... no software version changes noted... still on ODN 3.1.3_2 w/ Samsung v2.4.9.3. 8300HDCs reported reboots as well w/ no ODN version change.

Yesterday morning some of us in Charlotte with ODN boxes got some mystery reboots... no software version changes noted... still on ODN 3.1.3_2 w/ Samsung v2.4.9.3. 8300HDCs reported reboots as well w/ no ODN version change.

Maybe they deleted the Oompa-Loompas in my box!

Curious about what I see in the extended diagnostics, software versions page:

PTV: v6.14.96.1sp
RES: 2.4.6.21
DAM: 2.4.6.21
PE: 3,8 (MDN2.5dev)
HOST: 1.38 MDN2.4
HTRA: 4.1.58p

MDN seems to be called RES & DAM??? Also noticed the last boot time in these diags is a bunch of hours earlier than what is shown in the 6 page channel 996 option...

Seriously, gotta think it was a non version changing update of something or other. Maybe for 2.4.6.21 specific bugs? I did get hit with a "second time it's happened" one last night... a series recording that simply did NOT schedule a recording even though there was no reason for it not to.

OTOH, I set the ALCS game to record so I had a chance at some cable shows being moved "automatically." It worked. As the game dragged on, I saw an issue in that Sons of Ana. and Californication both were scheduled to record around 11, so I extended the already extended game time by another half hour... AND low & behold, it knocked out the CA run and rescheduled it for 11:30. Of course, I had to go back and delete the game... saving me zero time from doing the rescheduling myself Sunday night like I did on passport.

So far the first SARA to NAVIGATOR launch in Greensboro NC is going smooth as butter. I talked to TWC today when I paid my bill and asked when my 8300HD would get Navigator. I was told the launch was going so smooth thus far they have extended the finish time to the second week in November in order not to rush things and get it right the first time. Seems to be a working plan. The massive load of new HD channels has been split. Half at the end of Oct. half at end of Nov. This was done in order not to throw a monkey wrench in the Navigator launch. So far the 6 people besides myself that I know that have received it are pleased as punch with Gator. WOODY

Curious about what I see in the extended diagnostics, software versions page:

PTV: v6.14.96.1sp
RES: 2.4.6.21
DAM: 2.4.6.21
PE: 3,8 (MDN2.5dev)
HOST: 1.38 MDN2.4
HTRA: 4.1.58p

MDN seems to be called RES & DAM??? Also noticed the last boot time in these diags is a bunch of hours earlier than what is shown in the 6 page channel 996 option...

My page says this:

PTV: v6.14.96.1sp, Wed Oct 8 2008, 9:40:06 PM PDT
Res: 2.4.6-19-ptv (Mt. Sherman) May 11 2009, 14:49:58
DAM: 2.4.6-19-ptv (Mt. Sherman) May 11 2009, 14:47:54
PE: 3.13 (MDN 2.5dev) Mar 4 2009,12:24:19
Host: 1.38 MDN 2.4 May 11 2009,14:51:33
HTRA: 4.1.58p Nov 17 2008,13:47:03

So people in Manhattan, when they got Gatored, got a different version than Queens?

I'm about to pull my hair out. I am trying to watch something that I recorded, its a one hour show. When I try to play it the dvr skips to every 15 minute mark and I have no option to watch anything really. So in other words my dvr is quartering the one hour show. Any ideas?

My page says this:

PTV: v6.14.96.1sp, Wed Oct 8 2008, 9:40:06 PM PDT
Res: 2.4.6-19-ptv (Mt. Sherman) May 11 2009, 14:49:58
DAM: 2.4.6-19-ptv (Mt. Sherman) May 11 2009, 14:47:54
PE: 3.13 (MDN 2.5dev) Mar 4 2009,12:24:19
Host: 1.38 MDN 2.4 May 11 2009,14:51:33
HTRA: 4.1.58p Nov 17 2008,13:47:03

So people in Manhattan, when they got Gatored, got a different version than Queens?

Seems that way, I know someone from Queens posted about having 2.4.4.19, was that you?

Yes, it seems odd to me. I suppose it's possible there is a tighter correlation between specific version of the IPG and capabilities at the head end than we may think. That could mean different end versions have to be used, until something is updated at the head end. At least, that is the logic that I see.

I had a lot of issues related to my heavy use of series recordings, was told by many it had to be just me and my box (which I found hard to believe). BUT at the time, I don't think ANYONE had 2.4.6.21. Haven't seen any other reports of anyone having it in other markets. Something like 2 days ago, more than one NYCer noticed their boxes had re-booted in the morning. Versions didn't seem to change, so one could speculate they shoved down the same version that HAD some fixes. Again, this is based on logic and not specific knowledge.

BTW, you may want to update your sig to show the current MDN release you have...

Like many do, putting box model and software plus version in your sigs is critical in getting responses...

Seems that way, I know someone from Queens posted about having 2.4.4.19, was that you?

Yes, it seems odd to me. I suppose it's possible there is a tighter correlation between specific version of the IPG and capabilities at the head end than we may think. That could mean different end versions have to be used, until something is updated at the head end. At least, that is the logic that I see.

I had a lot of issues related to my heavy use of series recordings, was told by many it had to be just me and my box (which I found hard to believe). BUT at the time, I don't think ANYONE had 2.4.6.21. Haven't seen any other reports of anyone having it in other markets. Something like 2 days ago, more than one NYCer noticed their boxes had re-booted in the morning. Versions didn't seem to change, so one could speculate they shoved down the same version that HAD some fixes. Again, this is based on logic and not specific knowledge.

BTW, you may want to update your sig to show the current MDN release you have...

Like many do, putting box model and software plus version in your sigs is critical in getting responses...

I think the different diagnostics could be many things. I was thinking maybe some new design of MDN or a service pack related issue as MDN 2.4.6-21 has not hit other markets.

Maybe the Oompa Loompas have FINALLY left your box, Riverside!

Jack

So far the first SARA to NAVIGATOR launch in Greensboro NC is going smooth as butter. I talked to TWC today when I paid my bill and asked when my 8300HD would get Navigator. I was told the launch was going so smooth thus far they have extended the finish time to the second week in November in order not to rush things and get it right the first time. Seems to be a working plan. The massive load of new HD channels has been split. Half at the end of Oct. half at end of Nov. This was done in order not to throw a monkey wrench in the Navigator launch. So far the 6 people besides myself that I know that have received it are pleased as punch with Gator. WOODY
other than all those HBO HD channels, what other HD channels are we getting?

So far the first SARA to NAVIGATOR launch in Greensboro NC is going smooth as butter. I talked to TWC today when I paid my bill and asked when my 8300HD would get Navigator. I was told the launch was going so smooth thus far they have extended the finish time to the second week in November in order not to rush things and get it right the first time. Seems to be a working plan. The massive load of new HD channels has been split. Half at the end of Oct. half at end of Nov. This was done in order not to throw a monkey wrench in the Navigator launch. So far the 6 people besides myself that I know that have received it are pleased as punch with Gator. WOODY

I hope this is a good sign so we can get the update here by years end. My promo package is aabout to expire, but I got a mailer offering me a new promo for the nxt year. $119.95 for Triple Play plus the premium of choice for $6 for 18 months. I would have committed to two years last year if I knew TW was going to make such strides with the HD line up here. Now, I'm looking forward to Navigator.

I hope this is a good sign so we can get the update here by years end. My promo package is aabout to expire, but I got a mailer offering me a new promo for the nxt year. $199.95 for Triple Play plus the premium of choice for $6 for 18 months. I would have committed to two years last year if I knew TW was going to make such strides with the HD line up here. Now, I'm looking forward to Navigator.

200 for just the triple play? What about DVR service fee? 6 bucks for a single premium is kind of a good deal as normally the first one is 15. But it's the triple play that has me scratching my head. Down here, I think the rate card is 149.95.

other than all those HBO HD channels, what other HD channels are we getting?

Check the Time Warner website under channel changes for a full list. WOODY

I hope this is a good sign so we can get the update here by years end. My promo package is aabout to expire, but I got a mailer offering me a new promo for the nxt year. $199.95 for Triple Play plus the premium of choice for $6 for 18 months. I would have committed to two years last year if I knew TW was going to make such strides with the HD line up here. Now, I'm looking forward to Navigator.
Time Warner plans to have between 100 to 115 HD channels here by years end I was told. WOODY

Time Warner plans to have between 100 to 115 HD channels here by years end I was told. WOODY


Heard similar info for Charlotte... which makes sense since HD channel expansion has been in lock-step across the state this year.

I'm about to pull my hair out. I am trying to watch something that I recorded, its a one hour show. When I try to play it the dvr skips to every 15 minute mark and I have no option to watch anything really. So in other words my dvr is quartering the one hour show. Any ideas?

Have you tried a different remote? Sounds like a pulse is being sent out longer than it should and it's dropping you into skip mode.

Have you tried a different remote? Sounds like a pulse is being sent out longer than it should and it's dropping you into skip mode.It sounds more like instead of pressing and releasing the FF button, he's pressing and holding it.

200 for just the triple play? What about DVR service fee? 6 bucks for a single premium is kind of a good deal as normally the first one is 15. But it's the triple play that has me scratching my head. Down here, I think the rate card is 149.95.

Typo corrected: Triple Play for $119.95

Winston Salem , High Point and all the surrounding towns and citys in Triad North Carolina are now being seeded with NAVIGATOR. WOODY

Keep in mind we are ONLY talking about cable shows with multiple runs of a new episode during the week after it is really NEW.

Thanks Riverside_Guy. In the week since that discussion, the 8 or 10 new shows that I record weekly have been saved flawlessly, from both cable and network. This thread has helped a ton. I wonder, though, if you all could help me decipher how to best make Navigator work with a different type.

I see that IFC is set to start showing the beginning of "Arrested Development" starting this weekend. The first 2 episodes are showing Sunday night and then are repeated 3 more times throughout the week. Should I record them manually/individually? Or will the series recording options recognize "Oh, I already have the episode called 'Pilot' so I don't need to save it again" ? Since this isn't a new show, I wanted to get some expert advice before I started wandering down this path in the dark.

My experience has been that it will not record the same episode twice as long as the first showing successfully recorded... If the episode is listed in the current DVR Show list or in the recording log as "Deleted by User" (as in you watched the recording and then deleted it), it will not record again.

The Recording log seems to keep about two weeks of history, so if the repeat occurs outside that window, it will record again. Also, if the first showing does not record due to conflicts or you manually cancel the recording of an individual showing BEFORE it starts, it WILL reschedule the next showing of that episode.

Note that this does not apply to episodes that may appear on multiple channels... all scheduling and conflict resolution works only within a single channel.

Thanks Riverside_Guy. In the week since that discussion, the 8 or 10 new shows that I record weekly have been saved flawlessly, from both cable and network. This thread has helped a ton. I wonder, though, if you all could help me decipher how to best make Navigator work with a different type.

I see that IFC is set to start showing the beginning of "Arrested Development" starting this weekend. The first 2 episodes are showing Sunday night and then are repeated 3 more times throughout the week. Should I record them manually/individually? Or will the series recording options recognize "Oh, I already have the episode called 'Pilot' so I don't need to save it again" ? Since this isn't a new show, I wanted to get some expert advice before I started wandering down this path in the dark.

My experience has been that it will not record the same episode twice as long as the first showing successfully recorded... If the episode is listed in the current DVR Show list or in the recording log as "Deleted by User" (as in you watched the recording and then deleted it), it will not record again.I agree. I'd add though that it only seems to work for shows that have an episode name. That's why shows like Colbert will be recorded multiple times.

My experience has been that it will not record the same episode twice as long as the first showing successfully recorded.

That seems to be what I'm set up for. At first, I selected 'new episodes only' - thinking that new meant 'new to me' - but nothing was set to record with that setting. I changed it to 'new and repeat' and now the first two episodes (on Sunday night) are set to record but the repeats of those episodes on Tuesday and Wednesday are unchanged.

Thanks for the help.

I agree. I'd add though that it only seems to work for shows that have an episode name. That's why shows like Colbert will be recorded multiple times.

Yes... or something like NFL Live on ESPN.

Typo corrected: Triple Play for $119.95

THAT'S more like it!

That seems to be what I'm set up for. At first, I selected 'new episodes only' - thinking that new meant 'new to me' - but nothing was set to record with that setting. I changed it to 'new and repeat' and now the first two episodes (on Sunday night) are set to record but the repeats of those episodes on Tuesday and Wednesday are unchanged.

Thanks for the help.

"New" indicates a first run episode of a show... much to the consternation of Riverside_Guy, all showings of that episode shown in its first week of run are labeled "New", but Navigator will still record only one copy of it.

Series with multiple "New" showings (typically cable series) should be set with a lower priority than those with only a single "New" showing (typically network series). This allows Navigator to favor the single showing series in case of conflicts and still automatically pick up the cable series at a later airing during its premiere week.

Thanks Riverside_Guy. In the week since that discussion, the 8 or 10 new shows that I record weekly have been saved flawlessly, from both cable and network. This thread has helped a ton. I wonder, though, if you all could help me decipher how to best make Navigator work with a different type.

I see that IFC is set to start showing the beginning of "Arrested Development" starting this weekend. The first 2 episodes are showing Sunday night and then are repeated 3 more times throughout the week. Should I record them manually/individually? Or will the series recording options recognize "Oh, I already have the episode called 'Pilot' so I don't need to save it again" ? Since this isn't a new show, I wanted to get some expert advice before I started wandering down this path in the dark.

Generally speaking, syndicated shows rarely, if ever, show a NEW designation. So you have to set the series recording to "New and repeats." Which generally means it will record every single instance. However, you CAN specify the time to record. What I'd suggest is to look at all the times it runs and pick the one time that it shows only once (it could be all times are unique... I used to always pick a time in the middle of the night so there would NEVER be any conflict). In the channel guide go to that specific show, set for series, choose new and repeats and for that specific time.

The big trick is actually navigating to the time you want... MDN is like Passport as the only choices are "every time" or the time of the show WHEN you set it for series recording.

Mind you, I have not done this in MDN... used to successfully do this all the time in Passport. BUT, given the options I see, it SHOULD work.

It sounds more like instead of pressing and releasing the FF button, he's pressing and holding it.

I tried my harmony remote and the remote that came with box. I wasnt FFing anything, so that wasnt it. I eventually reset my box and that fixed it. Must have been a bug in the navigator software.

"New" indicates a first run episode of a show... much to the consternation of Riverside_Guy, all showings of that episode shown in its first week of run are labeled "New", but Navigator will still record only one copy of it.

If that's the case, why do I have two recordings of the latest episode of Dexter, two recordings of the latest episode of Sons of Anarchy and two recordings of the latest episode of It's Always Sunny in Phil. on my hard drive? Not to mention two more recordings of the the latter are in queue to be recorded this weekend. All are set to "new only". It's not a huge issue to me, but it is an annoyance.

If that's the case, why do I have two recordings of the latest episode of Dexter, two recordings of the latest episode of Sons of Anarchy and two recordings of the latest episode of It's Always Sunny in Phil. on my hard drive? Not to mention two more recordings of the the latter are in queue to be recorded this weekend. All are set to "new only". It's not a huge issue to me, but it is an annoyance.

Don't know why your's is doing that, but its not supposed to be that way... and "new only" has no bearing on your issue... either way it should not be recording the the same episode twice. You and Riverside should compare notes to see what you might have in common as his has been doing similar things. Are your DVR show list and/or recording log listing the first recording of the episode? If they are in the recording log, what does the log entry say?

I've been using ODN 3.1.x boxes for a year now and can only remember one duplicate episode ever being recorded, and I typically have 25-30 series scheduled. I definitely have not had issues with Dexter or Sons of Anarchy.

Now seeing the extra info (Original Air Date, etc) in the info banner. Possibly related to the mystery reboot the other morning, although no obvious software updates occurred.

Hey All,

For those of you getting the original air date info, on what programing content does it show and not show? On my MDN box our program info seems to be getting a little more descriptive. The left hand corner of the screen is just starting to show more information and than when you press INFO it seems to give a little more information than in the past. We got MDN 2.4.6-19 here.

For those of you getting the Original Air Date, did they remove the original year of broadcast? Now that we still have.

The INFO when you press stuff that has been recorded in the DVR Show List is still truncated.

On-Screen Caller ID now shows dashes between the numbers. It used to be like this for awhile, but than it took the form 1234567890.

Have not had any sporadic box reboots since signal strength was corrected and new cable line installed. No missed recordings for about a year!

Jack

Hey All,

For those of you getting the original air date info, on what programing content does it show and not show? On my MDN box our program info seems to be getting a little more descriptive. The left hand corner of the screen is just starting to show more information and than when you press INFO it seems to give a little more information than in the past. We got MDN 2.4.6-19 here.

For those of you getting the Original Air Date, did they remove the original year of broadcast? Now that we still have.

The INFO when you press stuff that has been recorded in the DVR Show List is still truncated.

On-Screen Caller ID now shows dashes between the numbers. It used to be like this for awhile, but than it took the form 1234567890.

Have not had any sporadic box reboots since signal strength was corrected and new cable line installed. No missed recordings for about a year!

Jack

I've seen the OAD on Smallville, SG-U, Sanctuary and White Collar tonight... all were first showings so the OAD was today. Also, if I hit Info in the DVR list I have the full listing, including OAD, for the following shows recorded this week: SG-U, Smallville, Grey's Anatomy, The Good Wife, CSI: NY, CSI: Miami... as well as the 10/15 episode of Fringe (but not the 10/8 episode). There were probably more that I already erased without noticing the added info.

Update: Checked a little more... OAD seems to appear on a large majority of "TV" programming... even older stuff from years ago. Movies (looking at GoldenEye on Bravo now) have expanded actor listings and director info.

Original Air Date only makes sense for TV programming--series (both fictional and non-)and made-for-TV movies, all of which are seen for the first time when they first air. Theatrical release films will have a first time they're shown on a cable or over-the-air national network, but I doubt that anyone keeps track of that. Theatrical Premiere Date would be more significant.

TiVo has Original Air Date info as well as episode number (numbers like "306", signifying season 3, episode 6)--handy for choosing the right episodes as shown in a "marathon" to let you catch up with a series you've never watched, or letting you see that the marathon doesn't include the first episodes.

I've seen the OAD on Smallville, SG-U, Sanctuary and White Collar tonight... all were first showings so the OAD was today. Also, if I hit Info in the DVR list I have the full listing, including OAD, for the following shows recorded this week: SG-U, Smallville, Grey's Anatomy, The Good Wife, CSI: NY, CSI: Miami... as well as the 10/15 episode of Fringe (but not the 10/8 episode). There were probably more that I already erased without noticing the added info.

Update: Checked a little more... OAD seems to appear on a large majority of "TV" programming... even older stuff from years ago. Movies (looking at GoldenEye on Bravo now) have expanded actor listings and director info.

That's the guide data that I've been talking about for the past couple of weeks.

Don't know why your's is doing that, but its not supposed to be that way... and "new only" has no bearing on your issue...

I checked this show... it's exactly as I said above.

TiVo has Original Air Date info as well as episode number (numbers like "306", signifying season 3, episode 6)--handy for choosing the right episodes as shown in a "marathon" to let you catch up with a series you've never watched, or letting you see that the marathon doesn't include the first episodes.

BIG plus for TiVo, I can usually GET to such info, but it takes time and lining up episode descriptions can occasionally fail. I AM curious if they (MSOs) get that kind of data from their data sources (I suspect they do) but simply fail to pass it on to us.

Somehow I can't recall anyone outside of NYC getting 2.4.6.21, I know another section of NYC (Queens) does not have it yet... anyone else have it?

I checked this show... it's exactly as I said above.

Not sure what you're referring to.

Not sure what you're referring to.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17407975&postcount=10275

Now seeing the extra info (Original Air Date, etc) in the info banner. Possibly related to the mystery reboot the other morning, although no obvious software updates occurred.

is it odd that charlotte got this a week after statesville? we are on the same system.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17365538#post17365538
i didnt have a reboot on the day we got this. also didnt get the reboot ya'll got down there the other day.

is it odd that charlotte got this a week after statesville? we are on the same system.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17365538#post17365538
i didnt have a reboot on the day we got this. also didnt get the reboot ya'll got down there the other day.

I only can determine that we got it sometime between the 8th and 15th, as I have Fringe recorded from those dates and one has it and one doesn't. That means it could have been coincident with your updatee... I just never noticed the added info because I usually don't pay much attention to the guide/info stuff.

My mystery reboot ocurred on the 20th, which I now realize was well after the guide data changed, which was no later than the 15th, from my Fringe evidence. So the reboot is still a mystery.

Since the Charlotte and Statesville channel line-ups are not identical, the guide data packages are necessarily different, so it's certainly possible that the implementation of the update did not happen concurrently.

Somehow I can't recall anyone outside of NYC getting 2.4.6.21, I know another section of NYC (Queens) does not have it yet... anyone else have it?

Not that I know,

But will keep checking. Someone recently did that check the version number thing in my area and for some reason it messed up his box. (So I don't wanna mess around with that because for some reason my box and settings are running smooth as butter!) For everyone in my division, they changed all the channel numbers where we have a Theme based line-up now. But I did check before they changed the line-up and my last version was MDN 2.4.6-19

I have seen little subtle things to the guide. Like longer program descriptions when you press INFO and the Caller ID on TV now representing dashes between the numbers. I think they are doing SOMETHING or planning for something big. We are also getting at least 10 more HD channels between November-December.

Have not heard anything big between MDN 2.4.6-19 and MDN 2.4.6-21.

Jack

Generally speaking, syndicated shows rarely, if ever, show a NEW designation. So you have to set the series recording to "New and repeats."

True

Which generally means it will record every single instance.

Not generally true. It will record every episode (irrespective of the "New" designation in the guide data), but NOT every instance of that episode. It should not record ANY episode a second time (within the approx 2 week window of the recording log). "New Only" vs. "New and Repeats" setting has no connection whatsoever with recording multiple instances of the same episode. None. Suppression of multiple recordings of the same episode depends completely on the recording log.

If multiple recordings of same episode are occuring, it is most like an issue with one of the following:

Missing or corrupt recording log data (box issue - the log is stored on the HDD)
Missing or corrupt episodic info in guide data (box or headend issue)
A bug specific to a particular MDN/ODN release effecting how one of the above items is being handled.
Recording of EVERY instance regardless of whether it has already been recorded should only occur with programs that do not carry episodic information in the guide, such as NFL Live.

I do think that MDN 3.0 will be a pretty big update, and I am almost positive that it will have the stuff currently on ODN like Nearest Tune. But I am sure that longer program descriptions and a Keyword Search option will be a part of it.

I wonder if remote DVR management will be a part of MDN 3.0?

Jack

BIG plus for TiVo, I can usually GET to such info, but it takes time and lining up episode descriptions can occasionally fail. I AM curious if they (MSOs) get that kind of data from their data sources (I suspect they do) but simply fail to pass it on to us.I feel certain that TiVo is only displaying it from the data that they get from their guide provider (Tribune Media). I'm sure that Macrovision's data has the information as well (they sold the TV Guide Magazine and TV Guide web site parts of Gemstar after acquiring it--to separate companies--but kept the data part). TWC shoud incorporate it into their guide; it only consumes an extra 13-14 characters.

The episode number isn't present on every series episode entry, but very close to all. Certainly all of the syndicated major network series that I've found.

I have recived reports of the first 8300Hd's in Greensboro getting MDN. From what I'm hearing Greensboro will be fully Navigator by end of second week in Nov. The entire TRIAD area will be done by Jan. 1. Do not know what version of MDN since my 8300HD is still SARA. But the MDN part of Navigator has started in Greensboro. So far not one single problem with my ODN Navigator. WOODY

I have recived reports of the first 8300Hd's in Greensboro getting MDN. From what I'm hearing Greensboro will be fully Navigator by end of second week in Nov. The entire TRIAD area will be done by Jan. 1. Do not know what version of MDN since my 8300HD is still SARA. But the MDN part of Navigator has started in Greensboro. So far not one single problem with my ODN Navigator. WOODY

whats the differences in the MDN and the ODN anything noticable

ODN is written in Java for SA HDC and Samsung boxes. MDN is for legacy SA boxes and is written in C/C++. Not many differences. ODN has nearest tune and maybe better guide data. It's not much different. It's doesn't have fluid animations and has different fonts. Thats pretty much the difference.

ODN is written in Java for SA HDC and Samsung boxes. MDN is for legacy SA boxes and is written in C/C++. Not many differences. ODN has nearest tune and maybe better guide data. It's not much different. It's doesn't have fluid animations and has different fonts. Thats pretty much the difference.

There's also eSATA: newer ODNs do not work with it, and MDNs, I think, do.

True



Not generally true. It will record every episode (irrespective of the "New" designation in the guide data), but NOT every instance of that episode. It should not record ANY episode a second time (within the approx 2 week window of the recording log). "New Only" vs. "New and Repeats" setting has no connection whatsoever with recording multiple instances of the same episode. None. Suppression of multiple recordings of the same episode depends completely on the recording log.

If multiple recordings of same episode are occuring, it is most like an issue with one of the following:

Missing or corrupt recording log data (box issue - the log is stored on the HDD)
Missing or corrupt episodic info in guide data (box or headend issue)
A bug specific to a particular MDN/ODN release effecting how one of the above items is being handled.
Recording of EVERY instance regardless of whether it has already been recorded should only occur with programs that do not carry episodic information in the guide, such as NFL Live.

Hmmm, I think he said he got every instance of a specific show being scheduled, so that kinda implied it worked like Passport (series set to New and Repeats). He also said at first, no shows got scheduled... exactly like setting NEW only used to mean.

As it turns out, I have not set a syndicated show in MDN, so my "advice" was based on experience in general tempered by what information I had from the questioner. It certainly seemed from what he said to work like Passport.

I find it very curious you had a mystery reboot on the same day I did!!! Mine was about 9 AM on the 20th. I'm also kicking myself because I failed to make sure SOMONE else was running my version when we discussed my bugs. AND, while it's a tad soon to completely determine, I have not seen any dupe recordings AFTER the 20th for shows that had them prior.

Not to mention an issue I have been having with series recordings NOT being made past a certain day until boom, they all get scheduled. Through yesterday AM, I had none scheduled past MON, BUT by evening, the schedule filled out through next SAT. Someone local HAS seen this AND he's on ODN.

I suspect the mystery re-boot was a slipstream code change that may have cleared my duplicates issue... which not to many could have experienced because most don't run the version I have (which, fyi, seems like it may be Manhattan, Queens run 2.4.4.19 on 8300HD boxes). I now seem to have years added to the Guide for episodic shows, but not any of the other data you guys are getting AND an even weirder one with Sunny in Philadelphia NOT having a NEW designation and still being scheduled, but not automatically resolved. All this tells me they are "playing around" with Guide data... I expect Sunny to work itself out by next Thursday!

I feel certain that TiVo is only displaying it from the data that they get from their guide provider (Tribune Media). I'm sure that Macrovision's data has the information as well (they sold the TV Guide Magazine and TV Guide web site parts of Gemstar after acquiring it--to separate companies--but kept the data part). TWC shoud incorporate it into their guide; it only consumes an extra 13-14 characters.

The episode number isn't present on every series episode entry, but very close to all. Certainly all of the syndicated major network series that I've found.

Interesting, TWC STILL shows the TV Guide logo in their IPG.

Not sure when it started, but I AM seeing year listed in episodic TV shows now. But none of the other data some are seeing. There's odd things going on with data that seem to indicate they are "playing around" in my market. Not to mention it appears I have an MDN version that almost nobody (except Manhattan) else has... not sure about SI/Bronx/Brooklyn, but know Queens has the previous MDN version.

Can so can someone please explain to me why TW abandoned Passport?

Also, was Passport owned by TW or was it licensed from Pioneer?

Interesting, TWC STILL shows the TV Guide logo in their IPG.

Not sure when it started, but I AM seeing year listed in episodic TV shows now. But none of the other data some are seeing. There's odd things going on with data that seem to indicate they are "playing around" in my market. Not to mention it appears I have an MDN version that almost nobody (except Manhattan) else has... not sure about SI/Bronx/Brooklyn, but know Queens has the previous MDN version.

I've seen the year (only) for episodic shows ever since we went to ODN 3.1.0_11, which was back around Jan or Feb. We also started seeing genre, CC and stereo designations at that point, along with multipage descriptions. Had to post pics because nobody believed me at the time... Charlotte (along with San Diego) was one of the first to get that ODN release. I have no idea when MDN added the year.

Can so can someone please explain to me why TW abandoned Passport?

Also, was Passport owned by TW or was it licensed from Pioneer?

The problem was that TWC DIDN'T own Passport... they decided to develop their own software rather than continue to license Passport, especially since Passport did not (at the time) support SDV, which was the direction TWC was going.

Since TWC Navigator MDN (or ODN) never notifies you of a firmware update I only check into every month or two. Now on on SA8300HD I see 'PE=3.13 (MDN 2.5dev)'. I did not see this previously. Can someone tell what this is? I am still at 'Res=2.4.6-19-ptv Mt. Shreman'...

...especially since Passport did not (at the time) support SDV, which was the direction TWC was going.People keep saying that but I cannot believe that that was any significant part of the equation--support for SDV would be dirt simple. The provider of whatever flavor of SDV you're using would provide code for the client side of the protocol and you'd just have to work it into your IPG. I'd estimate a single man month's work or less. Aptiv would have cheerfully agreed to do it or pretty much anything else they might ask in order to keep TWC's business, their being by far their biggest customer.

People keep saying that but I cannot believe that that was any significant part of the equation--support for SDV would be dirt simple. The provider of whatever flavor of SDV you're using would provide code for the client side of the protocol and you'd just have to work it into your IPG. I'd estimate a single man month's work or less. Aptiv would have cheerfully agreed to do it or pretty much anything else they might ask in order to keep TWC's business, their being by far their biggest customer.

Mike I agree. The biggest blunder Time Warner made was in just not buying Passport outright. WOODY

My ODN movie information gives all the main actors, the Director and year movie was released but says nothing about origional air date. Is this data something new. I mean giveing actors and directors names? If it is wonder why we have no origional air date. WOODY

Original Air date isn't on movie listings. Only TV shows have the original airdate.

Original Air date isn't on movie listings. Only TV shows have the original airdate.

Thanks. I do not have that guide data yet. With TWC in the middle of launching Navigator here guess that update will come later WOODY.

Mike I agree. The biggest blunder Time Warner made was in just not buying Passport outright. WOODY

Not to mention that we kept reading about new features in Passport that simply TWC never actually supplied. Major irony when I pine for Passport KNOWING that the version I pined for was not even close to what it cpould be because TWC stuck at a previous version.

FWIW, I just heard from a long time NYC user (i.e. 100% reliable) who is still running MDN 2.4.1-19 in Manhattan South! So it looks like I may very well be the ONLY regular running 2.4.6-21 (Berk32 is in the same head end, but he's running ODN). Which means almost nobody MAY see some of the odd things I see.

Go figure...

People keep saying that but I cannot believe that that was any significant part of the equation--support for SDV would be dirt simple. The provider of whatever flavor of SDV you're using would provide code for the client side of the protocol and you'd just have to work it into your IPG. I'd estimate a single man month's work or less. Aptiv would have cheerfully agreed to do it or pretty much anything else they might ask in order to keep TWC's business, their being by far their biggest customer.

Actually, I intended to write OCAP and wrote SDV instead, but I suspect that you are correct either way. TWC's primary goal was to bring it in-house to avoid paying license fees to a third party... you know... because they they are trying to look out for their subscribers by keeping expenses down so they can keep our rates low.:rolleyes:

...Not to mention an issue I have been having with series recordings NOT being made past a certain day until boom, they all get scheduled. Through yesterday AM, I had none scheduled past MON, BUT by evening, the schedule filled out through next SAT. Someone local HAS seen this AND he's on ODN.

I see this behavior fairly regularly... but it's usually for the 6th day out only... and has always corrected itself by the time it became the 5th day out, so I just don't worry about it.

By far my biggest Navigator issue, which seems to be a Charlotte-only issue, is the 3090's refusal to record FOX and CBS programming (and ONLY those two nets) for more than 2-3 days after a reboot. It's always good for a day or two... then by the 3rd day one of them will refuse to record (no pattern as to which will fail first), then within a day both will refuse to record. Rebooting cures it (if you reboot the box two minutes into a failed recording it will immediately start recording upon completion of the reboot). While it is refusing to record those programs, you cannot even force them to record manually... it will turn red in the guide for about 10 seconds, then go gray with a broken record symbol. The recording log always has the same message... "The channel was not available"... which has nothing to do with SDV (they are not SDV channels) and is not true because you could be actually watching the program it says was "unavailable".

None of the recent ODN, Samsung or "mystery" updates seem to have any bearing on this issue. Several Charlotte area subs have reported the same behavior, but I have not seen a single report from anywhere outside of Charlotte.

Still, I'd rather deal with a prophylactic reboot (which can be done via the remote on a 3090) every other day or so to keep it running reliably rather than lose the 320GB drive or have to look at a fugly 8300 series box. Outside of that issue, which I have learned to deal with, the 3090/ODN has done quite well managing my series recording.

There's also eSATA: newer ODNs do not work with it, and MDNs, I think, do.


Can anyone confirm this?
I have an 8300HD which presumably will be upgraded to MDN soon.

Thanks

Yes MDN still works with eSATA. Your box should work unless they too decide to cripple that.

Can anyone provide the key sequence for a warm reboot on the SA8300HD with Navigator MDN? Passport was simple, just hold down the power button. I am sorry if this was already discussed in this thread before but I cannot find it using the search feature. Thanks.

Can anyone provide the key sequence for a warm reboot on the SA8300HD with Navigator MDN? Passport was simple, just hold down the power button. I am sorry if this was already discussed in this thread before but I cannot find it using the search feature. Thanks.

Warm box reboot for Navigator is:

Hold down the VOL+ and VOL- box TOGETHER and as you are holding them down, press the INFO key. Release all keys when the box starts to reboot. (It should be either instantaneous or within about 5-10 seconds.)

It is most likely that TWC could not do the conventional hold in the Power Button for rebooting, because of Passport having copyrights on that process.

Jack

By far my biggest Navigator issue, which seems to be a Charlotte-only issue, is the 3090's refusal to record FOX and CBS programming (and ONLY those two nets) for more than 2-3 days after a reboot. It's always good for a day or two... then by the 3rd day one of them will refuse to record (no pattern as to which will fail first), then within a day both will refuse to record. Rebooting cures it (if you reboot the box two minutes into a failed recording it will immediately start recording upon completion of the reboot). While it is refusing to record those programs, you cannot even force them to record manually... it will turn red in the guide for about 10 seconds, then go gray with a broken record symbol. The recording log always has the same message... "The channel was not available"... which has nothing to do with SDV (they are not SDV channels) and is not true because you could be actually watching the program it says was "unavailable".

You should call your TWC Charlotte division or email them with this EXACT verbiage and specifically request that this information be forwarded to the engineering department AND to pass this along to corporate. This really needs to be addressed in the labs and could be a Charlotte issue only. Is this JUST on ODN boxes or MDN boxes as well?

If ODN only, is it just on the Samsung boxes? I heard there are some little bugs with them and this could be one of them.

This DOES sound like a head-end issue. Or specifically the new Samsung boxes inability to speak to the head-end, but only on the FOX and CBS channels indicated.

The only workaround that I could see would be going back to an SA-8300 or SA-8300 HDC box. Interestingly, I also heard that some divisions are still giving out SA-8300, (although refurbished) boxes.

Jack

You should call your TWC Charlotte division or email them with this EXACT verbiage and specifically request that this information be forwarded to the engineering department AND to pass this along to corporate. This really needs to be addressed in the labs and could be a Charlotte issue only. Is this JUST on ODN boxes or MDN boxes as well?

If ODN only, is it just on the Samsung boxes? I heard there are some little bugs with them and this could be one of them.

This DOES sound like a head-end issue. Or specifically the new Samsung boxes inability to speak to the head-end, but only on the FOX and CBS channels indicated.

The only workaround that I could see would be going back to an SA-8300 or SA-8300 HDC box. Interestingly, I also heard that some divisions are still giving out SA-8300, (although refurbished) boxes.

Jack

It's been a Samsung-only issue. When this has been discussed in the Charlotte TWC forum, there are always several who pipe up noting that they have or had experienced this with the Sammy, yet when I have mentioned it in the Navigator or 3090 forums, nobody has ever mentioned that they had experienced the same thing at their location. For all of those who have experienced it in Charlotte, it is always linked to CBS & FOX HD channels only, and all report several days of good behavior after a reboot.

For now, a few reboots a week is a more palatable workaround to me than going to any 8300 series box.

Warm box reboot for Navigator is:

Hold down the VOL+ and VOL- box TOGETHER and as you are holding them down, press the INFO key. Release all keys when the box starts to reboot. (It should be either instantaneous or within about 5-10 seconds.)

Jack

Jack: Thanks very much for this information. I just could not find it anywhere.

Can anyone provide the key sequence for a warm reboot on the SA8300HD with Navigator MDN? Passport was simple, just hold down the power button. I am sorry if this was already discussed in this thread before but I cannot find it using the search feature. Thanks.
My MDN does reboot with power button. Just hold for 15 seconds and wait another 15 or so it will reboot. You can tell it will because you cannot turn it off or on. I do this every morning while making breakfast to get my eSATA drive connected again for the day since it disconnects every night. Plan to get a timer, but thought I would get new MDN by now. I am still MDN 2.4.4-16 (Dec 2008 date) in SoCal. /Dan

And when that doesn't work, do a three finger salute at the front panel,
simultaneously holding down the "L" cursor, "R" cursor and "EXIT" keys.

Rumor has it that a DVD enabled STB from Samsung is on the drawing board. It will likely be a retail product. Might be SD only but could be HD box that can upscale DVD's to HD but record content in SD. It will likely use CGMS-A and DTCP.

Hey I received a letter from TWC saying my ALL THE BEST package will expire next month. Just wondered if this could be an opprotunity to get a better deal. I know there has to be some wheelin and dealin TWC customers on here so wondering if anyone has any tips for me to use?

Hey I received a letter from TWC saying my ALL THE BEST package will expire next month. Just wondered if this could be an opportunity to get a better deal. I know there has to be some wheeling and dealing TWC customers on here so wondering if anyone has any tips for me to use?

Hi Steve,

Sure, that would not be a problem to get into a new package deal. You should call within about a week of your expiration date and say how much you like their services and what deals are available:

See if they will keep your same level of services at a reduced rate OR

Maybe you might want to drop one of your premium channel packages if you have one. Ask what they could offer in it's place? Talk to them about the services you like. Movies? Sports? Series? They should be able to offer what you like, and maybe you might want to drop some channels that you may not want.

Sometimes, if you drop a premium channel, they might offer to exchange it, along with a free premium package for a period of time. (A 2 for 1 deal.) It depends on your level of service. Don't have a DVR? They might give you that for free for six months to a year.

If the person you talk to gives you a hard time, be polite, and say thank you, but than call back and odds are 95% you'll get a different person who is willing to give you a discount rate. They love it when people bundle services!

If your not getting anywhere, which would be a very unlikely scenario, you may want to call back (Third Time) and ask for what is called a "Customer Retention Specialist." There job is to do everything they can to keep you as a subscriber if the first-second CSR is unwilling to help. But, I don't think you will have to go that far.

If you have been paying your bill on time and you're standing is good with them, you should have no problem getting a fair and reasonable new rate.

You are fortunate to get a "Warning Notice" of the discount deal expiring! Those deal codes are time-sensitive and it is important for the customer to please WRITE DOWN THE DATE AND YEAR of any deal, especially if it is long term. Set Reminders well in advance in Calender, E-Mail Programs, or whatever you can to know when your deal is about to expire! Than just before it does, call to renegotiate a new deal.

Jack

I see this behavior fairly regularly... but it's usually for the 6th day out only... and has always corrected itself by the time it became the 5th day out, so I just don't worry about it.

Ah, good to know... I looked closer at the odd issue with "Sunny" and see the program description is completely generic (four people own a bar in Philadelphia) and not episode specific, so no "NEW" notation. BUT, it probably should not have been scheduled as it is supposed to be "Only NEW."

Really shouldn't happen when the guide data is 100% there!

Right now, it's stopping at SUN... so I have a bunch of "will not records" that should have been moved... and will when it wakes up!

Warm box reboot for Navigator is:

Hold down the VOL+ and VOL- box TOGETHER and as you are holding them down, press the INFO key. Release all keys when the box starts to reboot. (It should be either instantaneous or within about 5-10 seconds.)

It is most likely that TWC could not do the conventional hold in the Power Button for rebooting, because of Passport having copyrights on that process.

Jack

I generally will always do a cold boot (pull the power, then reconnect) when I think a kick in the box may change something (it rarely does!).

Hi Steve,

Sure, that would not be a problem to get into a new package deal. You should call within about a week of your expiration date and say how much you like their services and what deals are available:

See if they will keep your same level of services at a reduced rate OR

Maybe you might want to drop one of your premium channel packages if you have one. Ask what they could offer in it's place? Talk to them about the services you like. Movies? Sports? Series? They should be able to offer what you like, and maybe you might want to drop some channels that you may not want.

Sometimes, if you drop a premium channel, they might offer to exchange it, along with a free premium package for a period of time. (A 2 for 1 deal.) It depends on your level of service. Don't have a DVR? They might give you that for free for six months to a year.

If the person you talk to gives you a hard time, be polite, and say thank you, but than call back and odds are 95% you'll get a different person who is willing to give you a discount rate. They love it when people bundle services!

If your not getting anywhere, which would be a very unlikely scenario, you may want to call back (Third Time) and ask for what is called a "Customer Retention Specialist." There job is to do everything they can to keep you as a subscriber if the first-second CSR is unwilling to help. But, I don't think you will have to go that far.

If you have been paying your bill on time and you're standing is good with them, you should have no problem getting a fair and reasonable new rate.

You are fortunate to get a "Warning Notice" of the discount deal expiring! Those deal codes are time-sensitive and it is important for the customer to please WRITE DOWN THE DATE AND YEAR of any deal, especially if it is long term. Set Reminders well in advance in Calender, E-Mail Programs, or whatever you can to know when your deal is about to expire! Than just before it does, call to renegotiate a new deal.

Jack
Thank you very much for the helpful tips. I got about 2 weeks and I'll see what I can get done.

Thank you very much for the helpful tips. I got about 2 weeks and I'll see what I can get done.

No problem!

If you can, post back what they do for you. This may help others in similar situations.

Jack

Definitely check with your local TWC. I've got a new package that is so much better than what were paying now. Plus I got more channels. Eventually we'll get a $50 rebate which is nice.

Definitely check with your local TWC. I've got a new package that is so much better than what were paying now. Plus I got more channels. Eventually we'll get a $50 rebate which is nice.

my tw tech buddy was over last week ... suggested i go trade my questionable 8300hd for a samsung box. last time i swapped something out (horrible linksys modem/router/AP combo) i got my package adjusted, and while i didn't save any $$, for the same $$ i got my RR speed tripled (from 5mbps to 15mbps) and i got the pay HD tier free ...

I'm hoping to maybe score another premium or 2 and keep the price, or lower it. now that we get Max and Starz in HD, i might just switch it to those 2. HBO isn't worth the one show we watch for 12 weeks a year.

Ah, good to know... I looked closer at the odd issue with "Sunny" and see the program description is completely generic (four people own a bar in Philadelphia) and not episode specific, so no "NEW" notation. BUT, it probably should not have been scheduled as it is supposed to be "Only NEW."

Really shouldn't happen when the guide data is 100% there!

Right now, it's stopping at SUN... so I have a bunch of "will not records" that should have been moved... and will when it wakes up!

Riverside,

That happens with my guide too sometimes and is a common occurrence with a generic program description, (so we can be pretty sure that there are no Oompa Loompas changing the program description in your box! LOL!)

What happens is that when they add a new channel, sometimes they don't have the head-end data for episode descriptions to put on the guide so they will just give some generic description about the program, and even in some rare cases, not even that!!!!

For example, we got Retro TV added to our line-up and because the programming is different from state to state and division to division for times and the shows that each area chooses to run locally, for about 3 days, TWC had the wrong guide data showing. (I live in the Southern Part of Wisconsin, and they showed the Northern Part of Wisconsin's programing.) They fixed that with the right programs. But the program descriptions are still ALL generic.

And because the channel is so new on our line-up, the providers that I sometimes go to verify program information like TV Guide or Titan TV, don't even have the channel listed in the grid when I enter TWC-Wisconsin and my zip code information. Now, this could change at any time, but that's how it has been since we got the channel about three weeks ago.

And according to Navigator's Time Grid, TV Guide is still listed a data provider. But why? I thought the whole deal with Navigator was to create an in-house guide so that TWC would not have to pay residuals to outside vendors. I doubt that TV Guide is providing "free" program descriptions. The data, especially for older series appears to be the same data that was being generated from the Passport software.

What this says IMO is that future Navigator Updates may provide MORE programing information, but that information is still contingent on the host provider of the data. If the host provider of the data does not provide that information to TV Guide, Titan TV, Macrovision, or whatever the cable provider is using, or if the station does not have the data for the cable/dish company to transmit, the back-up system is to show the generic description of what the series is about.

Jack

The 8300HD and 8300SD legacy boxes were mostly seeded arround Greensboro last night. The Navigator launch arround Greensboro is going right on schedule with few or any glitches. The rest of the Triad area will began to be seeded hard with Navigator next week I hear. Greensboro is over 80% finished according to my Time Warner source. WOODY

It's possible a Samsung DVR box with a built in DVD burner will be leased by Time Warner to it's customers by second or third quarter of next year. I hear the box will let you copy movies you purchase once under a copy once tag. Regular movies like HBO on demand may be freely copied I hear Maybe this is why Navigator will get the copy tp DVD Burner feature back..

I don't think it will be possible to record VOD to DVD as VOD is usually marked as Copy Never. This box will likely be able to record copy once but the copy once usually lets you record it to the HDD but not dub it to DVD as it violates the flag. Dubbing a recording to DVD is like making another recording. I also expect Navigator's record to VCR/DVD burner option to be crippled to support the copy flags.

I don't think it will be possible to record VOD to DVD as VOD is usually marked as Copy Never. This box will likely be able to record copy once but the copy once usually lets you record it to the HDD but not dub it to DVD as it violates the flag. Dubbing a recording to DVD is like making another recording. I also expect Navigator's record to VCR/DVD burner option to be crippled to support the copy flags.

I dunno just repeating what a source I get occasioal tibits from told me. Was that Time Warner and Samsung are working on such a device. WOODY

What happens is that when they add a new channel, sometimes they don't have the head-end data for episode descriptions to put on the guide so they will just give some generic description about the program, and even in some rare cases, not even that!!!!

Jack

Nah, it's on FX, not exactly a new channel... and it's in it's 3rd season I think. I figure it HAS to be someone at TWC who is a major Yankee fan and is screwing over a show called "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia." Sour grapes for the Phillies pounding us last night perchance? I was waiting for it to "correct" itself, but not as of right now, so I went and did it manually.

Not a terrible biggee, I simply set the 11:07 show. Of COURSE with the WAS going on, the schedule is in choas. I'll be doing some download action tomorrow to cover the shows I can't record. The funny thing is the ONE show that could fall into the auto conflict scenario IS Sunny! Not to mention that it never should have been scheduled at all given no NEW in the IPG.

It's possible a Samsung DVR box with a built in DVD burner will be leased by Time Warner to it's customers by second or third quarter of next year. I hear the box will let you copy movies you purchase once under a copy once tag. Regular movies like HBO on demand may be freely copied I hear Maybe this is why Navigator will get the copy tp DVD Burner feature back..As I responded to hdtvfan2005's post about the DVD burner on hdtv.forsandiego.com:
If you copy Copy One Gen marked content, after it's done the source is supposed to render the copy on the source unusable (physically erased, if possible) not just un-copyable. You get to keep one copy, period, on the DVR or something else you copied it to.

The cable providers used to play fast-and-loose with copy protection such as marking Copy One Gen content Copy One Gen on output from a DVR (should be marked "Copy No More" and marking PPV and pay-VOD as "Copy Never" on output, but allowing copies of it to be made on their own leased DVRs, but now that they have to use CableCARDs in their leased equipment, any such games become violations of the provisions of their licenses for using the involved tech. The CableCARD, DFAST and the new <tru2way> licensing agreements (as well as 47 CFR §76.1904 (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=e7c02956adf086ce77c69972bf315e6e&rgn=div8&view=text&node=47:4.0.1.1.4.23.3.4&idno=47)) very clearly say what you can and cannot do with content which emerges from a CableCARD (protected by DFAST) according to the protection mode in use.

Model number for this new DVD enabled box is SMT-AH700A.

The 8300HD and 8300SD legacy boxes were mostly seeded around Greensboro last night. The Navigator launch around Greensboro is going right on schedule with few or any glitches. The rest of the Triad area will began to be seeded hard with Navigator next week I hear. Greensboro is over 80% finished according to my Time Warner source. WOODY

Woody,

You still have an SA-8300 (No C) that has not been Gatored yet, right?

I have heard the same as you did above that this transition has been going along like it's nothing. Very few problems or complaints. Considering the problems of 3-4 years ago there have been light years of improvements.

I just hope that Ben and Abyss in their regions of NYC get a Gator soon!! It seems that these are the only divisions left that have not been changed over. These divisions have been testing since April!!!! (Still no roll-out.)

Anything changed for you guys? Woody sounds like if you don't already have a Gator on that SA-8300, you should get it next week or the week after that.

If they are 80% finished, with no problems, that's great for your division. Maybe they should send the engineering heads from your division down to Ben's and Abyss' divisions to get the downloads going there!!!!

Jack

Woody,

You still have an SA-8300 (No C) that has not been Gatored yet, right?

I have heard the same as you did above that this transition has been going along like it's nothing. Very few problems or complaints. Considering the problems of 3-4 years ago there have been light years of improvements.

I just hope that Ben and Abyss in their regions of NYC get a Gator soon!! It seems that these are the only divisions left that have not been changed over. These divisions have been testing since April!!!! (Still no roll-out.)

Anything changed for you guys? Woody sounds like if you don't already have a Gator on that SA-8300, you should get it next week or the week after that.

If they are 80% finished, with no problems, that's great for your division. Maybe they should send the engineering heads from your division down to Ben's and Abyss' divisions to get the downloads going there!!!!

Jack
I got tired of waiting and traded my 8300HD in. There were no Samsungs yet in our division but I got a brank spanking new right out of the box 8240HDC. Got home pluged in in my den and boom now have Navigator on both my boxes. 3 days later my neighbor who has a 8300HD got Navigator. He has MDN but I now have ODN on both mine. The MDN of his is missing nearest tune and will not let you put your favorites first. Also my 8240HDC has both those features, it is faster than my 8300HD was. Also a added bonus is my HD and digital picture quality is a whole lot improved. Overall I am thrilled with Navigator and the 8240HDC. A word of warning anyone who gets Navigator the first time will take a while to learn to use it. Their are a lot of small hidden features with no directions you just have to find. Overall I will say it's 150% improvement over SARA. WOODY

I got tired of waiting and traded my 8300HD in. There were no Samsungs yet in our division but I got a brank spanking new right out of the box 8240HDC. Got home pluged in in my den and boom now have Navigator on both my boxes. 3 days later my neighbor who has a 8300HD got Navigator. He has MDN but I now have ODN on both mine. The MDN of his is missing nearest tune and will not let you put your favorites first. Also my 8240HDC has both those features, it is faster than my 8300HD was. Also a added bonus is my HD and digital picture quality is a whole lot improved. Overall I am thrilled with Navigator and the 8240HDC. A word of warning anyone who gets Navigator the first time will take a while to learn to use it. Their are a lot of small hidden features with no directions you just have to find. Overall I will say it's 150% improvement over SARA. WOODY

any word on when the samsung boxes will be coming out .,thanks

any word on when the samsung boxes will be coming out .,thanks

The girl at the counter had no idea. WOODY

...
And according to Navigator's Time Grid, TV Guide is still listed a data provider. ...
Jack

AFAIK, the TV Guide owns a patent for the EPG grid itself, and usually they insist in their licencing agreements that their logo is displayed whenever the grid is displayed. Some companies, like Tivo, have agreements that do not require them to display that logo (probably paid extra for that privilege).
Where the actual EPG data comes from is another story. The way TWC operates, they probably get it from the cheapest source.

Has anyone heard any new information on when Keyword Search will be added to Navigator. When they add that and prehaps manual recording they will be very close to PASSPORT. WOODY

http://itvt.com/story/5902/rovi-unveils-product-roadmap-its-passport-guide

The roadmap for Passport. Even though Navigator is getting better it's too late to dump Navigator and switch to Passport.

http://itvt.com/story/5902/rovi-unveils-product-roadmap-its-passport-guide

The roadmap for Passport. Even though Navigator is getting better it's too late to dump Navigator and switch to Passport.They are absolutely committed to Navigator. The time to give up on it was in the beginning, when they were drowning in negative press.

It's interesting that resident Passport Echo is still 4:3 where tru2way Passport (http://www.rovicorp.com/products/service_providers/guide_sp/passport_tru2way.htm?link_id=rightnav) (pics at the bottom of the page) is HD widescreen.

Customer service told me this week that they are planned for 1st quarter 2010.

Customer service told me this week that they are planned for 1st quarter 2010.

Adding Keyword Search first quarter of 2010. Is that correct? WOODY:)

They are absolutely committed to Navigator. The time to give up on it was in the beginning, when they were drowning in negative press.

It's interesting that resident Passport Echo is still 4:3 where tru2way Passport (http://www.rovicorp.com/products/service_providers/guide_sp/passport_tru2way.htm?link_id=rightnav) (pics at the bottom of the page) is HD widescreen.

The graphics look nice in that link, but the information looks a little too overwhelming with the tier lines showing separate things. Not sure, but I think on Passport you can choose at least two ways (maybe three) to view the IPG information.

What cable operators are using this new Passport Software?

A lot of the features talked about are also in development for Navigator. Now that most of the major bugs have been worked out of Navigator, they can concentrate on adding more search features. We do know that Keyword Search, Remote DVR Management, and Multi-Room DVR functionality are being worked on in the labs. Both MDN/ODN versions are being considered with these features.

I would expect a rollout of new features sometime between the first to second quarter of 2010.

Jack

San Diego will be the first to get it.

I think the thing is that the existing passport software is designed for low end hardware that even though may be HD capable cannot do it's own graphics in anything but 640x480 4:3. If you look at the current hardware like the 8300HD and HDC boxes they all won't do anything but the actual video stream in anything but 4:3. The only thing that has changed this is the new Samsungs and that needs software support to take full advantage of.

The new tru2way passport images may just be showcasing what is available in capable hardware such as the Samsungs.

As far as what cableco's use it I have no clue. Time Warner is the only one I was really aware of that had deals with Aptiv and now they've cut the cord so... Would be interesting to know who is left who still works with Aptiv.

RCN and Comcast are using it. Comcast is only using it in acquired cable systems. There are some smaller ones that still use it. It's popular in Puerto Rico and Latin America.

San Diego will be the first to get it.

Yea,

The new features roll-out always seems to follow a pattern. San Diego first, than some areas of North Carolina second, (about 2 weeks later.) Than we get them in Wisconsin about 3-4 weeks later.

After that, the updates start their nationwide thing.

Jack

Yea,

The new features roll-out always seems to follow a pattern. San Diego first, than some areas of North Carolina second, (about 2 weeks later.) Than we get them in Wisconsin about 3-4 weeks later.

After that, the updates start their nationwide thing.

Jack

Ah......it's GOOD to be a Tarheel! :)

Looking forward to getting tru2way.

Ah......it's GOOD to be a Tarheel! :)

Looking forward to getting tru2way.

I know. We were getting HD channels down here before almost anyone else outside of New York city first.:cool: WOODY ( Notice it was in NC the first SARA area got Navigator. Just bragging)

At the same time they give us the most lame HD channels. They don't seem interested in having 100 HD channels. However they do need to get the Moto area upgraded to SDV.

At the same time they give us the most lame HD channels. They don't seem interested in having 100 HD channels. However they do need to get the Moto area upgraded to SDV.

Oh yea we were one of first areas to get SDV, then Startover then Quick Clips. Were a TWC lab and we are all lab rats for TWC here. LOL WOODY

Yea,

The new features roll-out always seems to follow a pattern. San Diego first, than some areas of North Carolina second, (about 2 weeks later.) Than we get them in Wisconsin about 3-4 weeks later.

After that, the updates start their nationwide thing.

Jack

So Jack, why did they visit ME with the wonky 2.4.6-21 release<g>?

Must admit, it does seem to be exhibiting fewer outright bugs now, although I detest the way they go about conflict resolution, it seems to be more consistently working within it's own design constraints.

So Jack, why did they visit ME with the wonky 2.4.6-21 release<g>?

Must admit, it does seem to be exhibiting fewer outright bugs now, although I detest the way they go about conflict resolution, it seems to be more consistently working within it's own design constraints.

Riverside Time Warner has made you a one sub lab rat for us all.:) WOODY

San Diego doesn't upgrade to the inbetween updates.

So Jack, why did they visit ME with the wonky 2.4.6-21 release<g>?

Must admit, it does seem to be exhibiting fewer outright bugs now, although I detest the way they go about conflict resolution, it seems to be more consistently working within it's own design constraints.

Riverside,

Well, as you know and stated, that MDN 2.4.6-21 is indeed a WONKY release from Mr. Willy Wonka himself!!!! If you have some bugs fixed, I personally think it is some kind of Oompa Loompa control patch!!! LOL! You have been getting LESS Oompa Loompa tampering with your box, right?!

Seriously, that MDN 2.4.6-21 I really think for NYC had to be some sort of SARA conversion patch to ease in the transition. I think it fixed one or two small things that could have been big things if left unpatched.

However, almost everyone else even in NYC with MDN has 2.4.6-19, which is the latest widespread release. This is only what I think. As we all know, TWC NEVER releases any information on what the updates do, or fix.

Jack

The new features roll-out always seems to follow a pattern. San Diego first, than some areas of North Carolina second, (about 2 weeks later.) Than we get them in Wisconsin about 3-4 weeks later.


Don't forget South Carolina. Columbia/Myrtle is one of their primary test markets.

One interesting thing I've noticed since this 'upgrade' was forced on me... it seems that HD programming is being reported as taking up a larger percentage of the hard drive.

Prior to Navigator, I could be virtually assured that an hour of HD recording would represent a use of 4% of my hard drive space. Since my involuntary improvement, every time I've noticed, the deletion of an hour gives me back 5% and 2 hours gives me 10%. I don't know if the new software reports things differently or if it really is using more space.

Got a little more information on the Samsung box with DVD burner Time Warner is haveing developed. The new box will let you burn copys of recorded dvr cable shows to the dvd burner freely. On demand movies will be able to be copied once only. There will be a charge to copy a first run on demand movie. Something akin to buying a cheap dvd. Time Warner see's the new dvd burner software a new revenue stream to sll movie copys as well as conserts, pay for view events ect. I understand the copy once copy will be of exceptional quailty. Higher pq than dvr copys. WOODY

Got a little more information on the Samsung box with DVD burner Time Warner is haveing developed. The new box will let you burn copys of recorded dvr cable shows to the dvd burner freely. On demand movies will be able to be copied once only. There will be a charge to copy a first run on demand movie. Something akin to buying a cheap dvd. Time Warner see's the new dvd burner software a new revenue stream to sll movie copys as well as conserts, pay for view events ect. I understand the copy once copy will be of exceptional quailty. Higher pq than dvr copys. WOODY

Cisco (S/A) already has one out, looks pretty good will let you know this week and test it out, I don't care for the Samsung gear that much, Beta tested a lot units and they all have too many issue's with not retaining the settings,SDV,Guided,etc..

Cisco (S/A) already has one out, looks pretty good will let you know this week and test it out, I don't care for the Samsung gear that much, Beta tested a lot units and they all have too many issue's with not retaining the settings,SDV,Guided,etc..

Are you saying that both Cisco and Samsung boxes with dvd burners are under consideration by Time Warner? WOODY

Got a little more information on the Samsung box with DVD burner Time Warner is haveing developed. The new box will let you burn copys of recorded dvr cable shows to the dvd burner freely. On demand movies will be able to be copied once only. There will be a charge to copy a first run on demand movie. Something akin to buying a cheap dvd. Time Warner see's the new dvd burner software a new revenue stream to sll movie copys as well as conserts, pay for view events ect. I understand the copy once copy will be of exceptional quailty. Higher pq than dvr copys. WOODY

Will it work with HDMI cable? Let's hope! What sucks is I'll bet there will be a big rate increase for it.

Jack

I know what the model number is SMT-AH700A/TWC or SMT-AH700A for short. It will have HDMI and all that jazz. It will be an HD DVR since H is in the model number.

Hello all,

I just recently got a 8300HDC DVR from Time Warner SoCal (Orange County) and am struggling with understanding an aspect of the "record series" function. I did some searching and reading through this thread but didn't find anyone mention this problem. Perhaps I missed it. :confused:

Here's the situation: I navigate through the channel guide to a show I want to record. In this case I'm choosing a show on TBS (digital feed) on channel 103. I highlight the show, press SELECT and choose Record series. I expect that I am now recording all (or some/many) of the episodes of this show that are on TBS channel 103. What actually happens, though, is that it records episodes of my show from TBS channel 29 which is the analog version of this channel. What's even more interesting is that if I look at the Series Manager it says the series is going to be recorded from channel 103 but all upcoming shows are going to be recorded from channel 29.

This happens whenever I choose to record a series that has digital and analog channels with the same name (i.e. "TBS") that have the same content but not when I choose to record a series that has a unique name (i.e. ABCHD).

I talked to two TWC technical support agents and they both say that it should record from channel 103 if I choose channel 103 in the guide when setting up the series. Neither of them could confirm that any DVR would actually do this, though, and said I should either swap the box with a new one or have a technician come out to diagnose the problem. I have two boxes (one about 6 months old, the other just a few days old) and both are 8300HDC, and they both act this way.

Has anyone else seen this problem or do I, in fact, simply have bad boxes?

The new box indicates it's running ODN 3.1.1_3.

Thanks,

Mike

Are you sure that your channel 29 is really analog on that box? Most Time Warner regions have moved to digital simulcasting so even channels 2-99 on a box will be digital and often the same exact data coming in as channels 100 and above. Do you get any kind of visible snow interference on any of those lower channels off the box?

As far as the original problem the only guess I have is to doublecheck it is set to record the series only from X channel. If it is set that way, try deleting and re-setting the series recording.

Are you sure that your channel 29 is really analog on that box? Most Time Warner regions have moved to digital simulcasting so even channels 2-99 on a box will be digital and often the same exact data coming in as channels 100 and above. Do you get any kind of visible snow interference on any of those lower channels off the box?

As far as the original problem the only guess I have is to doublecheck it is set to record the series only from X channel. If it is set that way, try deleting and re-setting the series recording.

Thanks for the quick reply. I wasn't aware of the digital simulcasting. Interesting. I was under the impression that the channels were analog because I can still tune them using my old ReplayTV tuner. I don't get noticeable interference when tuning with the cable box but I know the picture isn't as good when using the Replay.

Regarding the way the series is setup, it does still say the series is set to record on channel 103. I've deleted and re-setup a number of them just to make sure I wasn't doing anything wrong and in each case the series displays correctly but the actual recordings are wrong.

In any case, I'll let it go for now and see if any of the recordings are noticeably poorer.

Thanks!

TWC upgraded the software on my dvr to navigator. Now I no longer have copy to dvr function. Can I enable it in the menu? Thanks

Copy to VCR won't be in Navigator for another few months. Thats one of the features they want to bring back though. You can't just enable it though. If you can wait then it's coming back.

Copy to VCR won't be in Navigator for another few months. Thats one of the features they want to bring back though. You can't just enable it though. If you can wait then it's coming back.

I have never been able to record anything to my old VCR using HDMI cable. Several sources tell me you can't because of issues that are inter-related such as copy-protection when using HDMI and that those old analog VCR's cannot play back HD signals. The workaround is to use Component Cables.

So if and whenever this copy to VCR feature comes out, will (or should as in the case of Navigator) users be able to copy to their VCR just using that command?

Because the SARA software is so old and that copy feature was implemented long before HD and HDMI cable, I wanted to ask this question for discussion.

Jack

Hello all,

I just recently got a 8300HDC DVR from Time Warner SoCal (Orange County) and am struggling with understanding an aspect of the "record series" function. I did some searching and reading through this thread but didn't find anyone mention this problem. Perhaps I missed it. :confused:

Here's the situation: I navigate through the channel guide to a show I want to record. In this case I'm choosing a show on TBS (digital feed) on channel 103. I highlight the show, press SELECT and choose Record series. I expect that I am now recording all (or some/many) of the episodes of this show that are on TBS channel 103. What actually happens, though, is that it records episodes of my show from TBS channel 29 which is the analog version of this channel. What's even more interesting is that if I look at the Series Manager it says the series is going to be recorded from channel 103 but all upcoming shows are going to be recorded from channel 29.

This happens whenever I choose to record a series that has digital and analog channels with the same name (i.e. "TBS") that have the same content but not when I choose to record a series that has a unique name (i.e. ABCHD).

I talked to two TWC technical support agents and they both say that it should record from channel 103 if I choose channel 103 in the guide when setting up the series. Neither of them could confirm that any DVR would actually do this, though, and said I should either swap the box with a new one or have a technician come out to diagnose the problem. I have two boxes (one about 6 months old, the other just a few days old) and both are 8300HDC, and they both act this way.

Has anyone else seen this problem or do I, in fact, simply have bad boxes?

The new box indicates it's running ODN 3.1.1_3.

Thanks,

Mike

Hi Mike,

There is nothing wrong with your box. This is an issue as another user said related to Digital Simulcasting. Here in Wisconsin, TWC changed our Navigator line-up organizing shows by Category Themes. So analog subscribers for example in my area get TV Land on channel 61. TWC also added TV Land to the Kids and Family Category on digital channel 114. When you select the show to record through either a Keyboard Search, Category Search, or in the Time Grid, both instances of the channel are highlighted in the Time Grid, BUT only one instance of the show properly appears in the DVR Show List.

The station number in your DVR Show List under "Scheduled Recordings" is what will record. What I don't know is HOW Navigator chooses between the analog or digital versions of the show to be recorded? However, if the show has recorded and plays back OK, that's what's important.

The implementation of SDV (Switched Digital Video) allows for greater channel bandwidth and additional channels to be added.

Jack

A themed base lineup sure is nice. It would make my channel surfing so much easier. Especially for HD channels.

I have never been able to record anything to my old VCR using HDMI cable. Several sources tell me you can't because of issues that are inter-related such as copy-protection when using HDMI and that those old analog VCR's cannot play back HD signals. The workaround is to use Component Cables.

So if and whenever this copy to VCR feature comes out, will (or should as in the case of Navigator) users be able to copy to their VCR just using that command?

Because the SARA software is so old and that copy feature was implemented long before HD and HDMI cable, I wanted to ask this question for discussion.

Jack
Jack the copy to vcr name may be a misnomer. Most people today used it to copy to a dvd burner. The copy feature was only added two or three years ago. It was probably the last feature update we ever received on SARA. It was a feature I used all the time to archive movies. It did copy HD but in a digitial format and widescreen. Non HD copied as it was shown. My cousin had HDMI and it worked fine for him. He was copying to dvd burner not vcr. WOODY:)

Seriously, that MDN 2.4.6-21 I really think for NYC had to be some sort of SARA conversion patch to ease in the transition. I think it fixed one or two small things that could have been big things if left unpatched.

However, almost everyone else even in NYC with MDN has 2.4.6-19, which is the latest widespread release. This is only what I think. As we all know, TWC NEVER releases any information on what the updates do, or fix.

Jack

Don't think anyone here ever had SARA... not to mention it took several weeks for me to realize -21 was done only for the Man North head end... like I said, I think/suspect it NIW works much the same as -19...

Talked to my Uncle today. He had time warner to his house to add another outlet. The service guy told him now that Greensboro was mostly done a update was scheduled for Tuesday night. No details but wonder what thats about. Bet it's the new discription feature. WOODY

I blocked the adult channels 235-240 and set to block titles also but titles still show up ,it seems it only blocks titles on 630 adult on demand it use to block all them on sara but navigator shows them ,just dont want my kid asking whats that show black meat for white chicks , there no way to explain that one lol:eek::eek:

I blocked the adult channels 235-240 and set to block titles also but titles still show up ,it seems it only blocks titles on 630 adult on demand it use to block all them on sara but navigator shows them ,just don't want my kid asking whats that show black meat for white chicks , there no way to explain that one lol:eek::eek:

After your blocking preferences have been set up, you will need to activate Parental Control. When you turn it on the first time, you will be asked for a blocking pin. The default pin number is 0000. This is a pin number that you must write down that allows you and only you, or those who have the pin number the ability to see those channels, but the kids can't. It should be like Passport where you set up your blocking preferences by:

Time

Rating

Channel

Title

Specific Content (Language, Nudity, Violence.)

Or any combination of the above:

Here are quick tips with illustrations on how to block. Go to this site and print this out. What's important are two main things:

1.) Parental Control must be turned on for any blocks to work. (How to do this is on Page 2 when you print out the information from the site.)

2.) You MUST set up other blocking paremeters for programing, (rating, channel, time, content,) (at least one) BEFORE you can block by title.

Here is the site: (When you go to it, select Parental Controls and print out the information.)

http://bakersfield.brighthouse.com/customer_care/product_guides/navigator/quick_tips.aspx

I know cable customer service is really good about helping people protect their family from content that some might find objectionable. So you should call if you have any questions about setting up and using Parental Control features.

Jack

Just got MDN 2.4.6-19.

Nothing interesting to report.

On my box, I can enable favorites, but I don't have the "Sort by Favorites" option. Hitting "Fav" does flip me thru my favorites, so I get some functionality. But I can't see my favorites grouped together in my Guide. Perhaps I have older software?

and guess what ...

despite my previous post there is something to report. I don't have "sort by favorites" now either.

The one $%@$#%^@ thing that I actually thought was better than Passport 2006 and the idiots remove it.

and guess what ...

despite my previous post there is something to report. I don't have "sort by favorites" now either.

The one $%@$#%^@ thing that I actually thought was better than Passport 2006 and the idiots remove it.

I could almost swear they slipstreamed it out. I DO recall trying it out... and finding that it only "moved" the faves to the top of the list. Meaning it did not show ONLY favorites, and once moved, they were not accessible in their numerical positions. Didn't care for it all that much, so I turned it off. NOW I can;t see the choice at all... yet I still have the same MDN version as it was at conversion.

Probably only in my market, but Sunny in Philadelphia continues with really odd listings... as in each week, it "works" a different way. They SEEM to mix generic and specific guide data within each week. Sometimes the real first run is generic, but it picks up another day. This week, the initial broadcast was correct, but fell into the automatic resolution scenario... except NOT the first re-broadcast (no conflicts at all, it simply had generic data), but one later in the week. Again, all due to not every show having the right description. The first time I saw this, none were correct, so I had to manually record. Three weeks in a row at this point.

Probably only in my market, but Sunny in Philadelphia continues with really odd listings... as in each week, it "works" a different way. They SEEM to mix generic and specific guide data within each week. Sometimes the real first run is generic, but it picks up another day. This week, the initial broadcast was correct, but fell into the automatic resolution scenario... except NOT the first re-broadcast (no conflicts at all, it simply had generic data), but one later in the week. Again, all due to not every show having the right description. The first time I saw this, none were correct, so I had to manually record. Three weeks in a row at this point.

If it makes you feel any better, my Tivo is doing this too. The Sunny guide data from FX must be bad...

xnappo

^^^
i dont watch the show but i went through the guide checking it out. i see the same thing here.

i've seen similar issues on other channels too. specifically the andy griffith show. sometimes it will have a very generic data such as "a man and his sons life in small town america" other times its episode specific.
along the same lines. Judge Judy always has the 'new' episode backwards. ie: they have 2 airings back to back. episode 1's description actually goes with episode 2. and #2 that is marked as 'new' actually goes with #1's program.

and guess what ...

despite my previous post there is something to report. I don't have "sort by favorites" now either.

The one $%@$#%^@ thing that I actually thought was better than Passport 2006 and the idiots remove it.

Same here in Cary, got upgraded to 2.4.6-19 about 3am this morning and Sort by Favorites is gone.

^^^
i dont watch the show but i went through the guide checking it out. i see the same thing here.

i've seen similar issues on other channels too. specifically the andy griffith show. sometimes it will have a very generic data such as "a man and his sons life in small town america" other times its episode specific.
along the same lines. Judge Judy always has the 'new' episode backwards. ie: they have 2 airings back to back. episode 1's description actually goes with episode 2. and #2 that is marked as 'new' actually goes with #1's program.

What is needed to fix these types of issues? Is this the fault of TWC? The Navigator software? The head-end data? Or TV Guide listings being wrong?

Jack

and guess what ...

despite my previous post there is something to report. I don't have "sort by favorites" now either.

The one $%@$#%^@ thing that I actually thought was better than Passport 2006 and the idiots remove it.

I agree, this was one of the few nice options. As of today, its gone on my DVR too (Raleigh). I'll be writing to complain tomorrow.

I agree, this was one of the few nice options. As of today, its gone on my DVR too (Raleigh). I'll be writing to complain tomorrow.

I sent them an email this morning. No reply as of yet, but I'm expecting a form response.

After your blocking preferences have been set up, you will need to activate Parental Control. When you turn it on the first time, you will be asked for a blocking pin. The default pin number is 0000. This is a pin number that you must write down that allows you and only you, or those who have the pin number the ability to see those channels, but the kids can't. It should be like Passport where you set up your blocking preferences by:

Time

Rating

Channel

Title

Specific Content (Language, Nudity, Violence.)

Or any combination of the above:

Here are quick tips with illustrations on how to block. Go to this site and print this out. What's important are two main things:

1.) Parental Control must be turned on for any blocks to work. (How to do this is on Page 2 when you print out the information from the site.)

2.) You MUST set up other blocking paremeters for programing, (rating, channel, time, content,) (at least one) BEFORE you can block by title.

Here is the site: (When you go to it, select Parental Controls and print out the information.)

http://bakersfield.brighthouse.com/customer_care/product_guides/navigator/quick_tips.aspx

I know cable customer service is really good about helping people protect their family from content that some might find objectionable. So you should call if you have any questions about setting up and using Parental Control features.

Jack

thanks for the info , i tried it looks like it works but then after scrolling thur-channels it still seems to show the titles on 235-240 but ordering is blocked ,called customer service they said its a glitch on navigator that will be fixed soon in some areas of winston salem

Perhaps this has been discussed plenty of time in this thread or another one.

But I was just watching TV with my regular DVR (Explorer 8300) in another room in my apartment.

The difference between a regular DVR with an HD DVR (8300HDC) is so noticeable.

When you click to change a channel or view the guide, it "fades in", and then when you're done and close it is "fades out".

It's smooth, you can change channels quickly. Just great.

My questions is, can the HD DVR 8300HDC accomplish this?

Perhaps it can, and I have a faulty box. I just want to make sure if anyone has a HD DVR that perform like a regular DVR. (fade in, fade out, smooth software)

Anyone?

Sort by Favorites is still advertised (for now) ... hopefully this was a mistake they'll correct soon. I really don't want the hassle of searching out alternative DVR solutions.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/Carolinas/site.faqs/Cable/On-screenG/Where-is-my-Time-Warner-Cable-

Anyone not in the Carolinas experiencing this problem on MDN?

Perhaps this has been discussed plenty of time in this thread or another one.

But I was just watching TV with my regular DVR (Explorer 8300) in another room in my apartment.

The difference between a regular DVR with an HD DVR (8300HDC) is so noticeable.

When you click to change a channel or view the guide, it "fades in", and then when you're done and close it is "fades out".

It's smooth, you can change channels quickly. Just great.

My questions is, can the HD DVR 8300HDC accomplish this?

Perhaps it can, and I have a faulty box. I just want to make sure if anyone has a HD DVR that perform like a regular DVR. (fade in, fade out, smooth software)

Anyone?

The menu fades and transparency are MDN features only. ODN does not have this. Current ODN DVRs are any SA "HDC" model and all of the Samsungs. To some extent, its a matter of what you are used to... I have only had ODN boxes and when I visit friends with MDN boxes the menu fades and (especially) the transparency annoy the crap out of me.

Some, but not all, HDC boxes do seem to be a bit laggy running ODN (I had a 10/08 production date 8300HDC and it ran ODN quite well). This is not an issue at all with the Samsungs.

If it makes you feel any better, my Tivo is doing this too. The Sunny guide data from FX must be bad...

xnappo

Wow, thanks so much for posting this... you're correct, it HAS to be FX because TiVo and TWC get their data from very different sources!

What is needed to fix these types of issues? Is this the fault of TWC? The Navigator software? The head-end data? Or TV Guide listings being wrong?

Jack

It seems that in the case of Sunny, it's the channel, FX, that seems to be sending out bad data...

Same here in Cary, got upgraded to 2.4.6-19 about 3am this morning and Sort by Favorites is gone.

I'm curious if anyone who has ODN or MDN has seen Sort By Favorites at any time IN those IPGs? I'm pretty sure it got slipstreamed OUT of MDN 2.4.6-21...

I'm curious if anyone who has ODN or MDN has seen Sort By Favorites at any time IN those IPGs? I'm pretty sure it got slipstreamed OUT of MDN 2.4.6-21...

For us, Sort by Favorites was added when we received ODN 3.1.0_11 and is still present in ODN 3.1.3_2 update that we received last month. I would be quite pissed if it was removed, as it is a great feature.

I initially had an older version of ODN - don't remember what version - that I had for all of about two days before it was updated to 3.1.0_11. I didn't have it long enough to discover or remember if it had Sort by Favorites.

I'm curious if anyone who has ODN or MDN has seen Sort By Favorites at any time IN those IPGs? I'm pretty sure it got slipstreamed OUT of MDN 2.4.6-21...

My ODN 3,1,3,2 has the sort favorites first feature. WOODY

My ODN 3,1,3,2 has the sort favorites first feature. WOODY

That feature has been in ODN at least two years, probably from the very beginning. I remember having it in the ODN version 2.4_5_4, September 07.

The menu fades and transparency are MDN features only. ODN does not have this. Current ODN DVRs are any SA "HDC" model and all of the Samsungs. To some extent, its a matter of what you are used to... I have only had ODN boxes and when I visit friends with MDN boxes the menu fades and (especially) the transparency annoy the crap out of me.

Some, but not all, HDC boxes do seem to be a bit laggy running ODN (I had a 10/08 production date 8300HDC and it ran ODN quite well). This is not an issue at all with the Samsungs.

Thanks for the explanation.

I'm curious if anyone who has ODN or MDN has seen Sort By Favorites at any time IN those IPGs? I'm pretty sure it got slipstreamed OUT of MDN 2.4.6-21...

Hi Riverside,

I always had MDN and had Sort By Favorites in it UNTIL the software update to 2.4.6-19. The last MDN update to have Sort by Favorites in it was 2.4.4-16. Here is the difference in how they worked:

Sort By Favorites (MDN 2.4.4-16 and below) Allowed the placement of Favorite channels when selected to be put to the top of the favorites list. The DIFFERENCE from Passport was when you selected Favorites by pressing the Favorites button in this version and had the IPG showing, it would tune to the Favorite Channel, NOT just jump to the next successive Favorite Channel in the guide list.

Sort by Favorites (MDN 2.4.6-19 and above.) Is removed from the Favorite Channels List where all you can do now is Set Up Favorites, BUT a Passport feature has been added back where if you have the IPG showing, it now goes to the next channel number in the guide list. If you want to TUNE to a Favorite channel, you hide the guide and than press the Favorite button.

What I don't understand is why Navigator can't have both, meaning a Sort by Favorite Channels List AND the ability to scroll to the next channel in the guide? Maybe TWC think those two options are redundant, but I disagree! Seeing a customized Favorite Channels List that you create is NOT the same as being able to see the Favorite Channels in the IPG by pressing the Favorite Channels button.

Maybe TWC doesn't want subs "Customizing Their Lineup." If that is true, I think this is b.s! So far, at least, ODN still has Sort By Favorites in the latest version.

Jack

I agree, this was one of the few nice options. As of today, its gone on my DVR too (Raleigh). I'll be writing to complain tomorrow.

Time Warner's response ... unsatisfactory, as expected:

Thank you for contacting Time Warner Cable Email Support.
I understand after the Navigator upgrade, sort by favorites feature is unavailable. You have found that this feature is still on the website.
I apologize for the inconvenience and will be glad to help you.
Thank you for bringing this to our notice. We will share your suggestion with our technical team is working on several improvements to the Search functionality. With the latest improvement, when you press B for search, the keyboard displays immediately. You can then press and hold any of the arrow keys to skip quickly through the letters and it will wrap around to the next row.
With the next phase of improvements, when you press B for Search, the program list displayed to the right of the keyboard will be positioned on the title of the program you are either currently watching or have navigated to in the Guide.
A later phase of improvements will allow you to search for a channel number by entering the name of the network. It will further consolidate multiple listings for the same show.

Sort By Favorites (MDN 2.4.4-16 and below) ]Allowed the placement of Favorite channels when selected to be put to the top of the favorites list. The DIFFERENCE from Passport was when you selected Favorites by pressing the Favorites button in this version and had the IPG showing, it would tune to the Favorite Channel, NOT just jump to the next successive Favorite Channel in the guide list

Yeah, this is what I remember... not all that surprising given this odd version that I got converted to, which more and more seems like a kind of mash up. Clearly, they HAVE been slipstreaming fixes in as the Sort by Favorites got deleted and it seems duplicates are no longer being scheduled when the real first run was recorded and deleted. AND I do note that auto resolution DOES seem to work when you "schedule" something manually last minute (like a WS game), get a conflict notice, manually delete a show that IS a series recording, but that has multiple episodes AND have one of those scheduled!

Time Warner's response ... unsatisfactory, as expected:

Thank you for contacting Time Warner Cable Email Support.
I understand after the Navigator upgrade, sort by favorites feature is unavailable. You have found that this feature is still on the website.
I apologize for the inconvenience and will be glad to help you.
Thank you for bringing this to our notice. We will share your suggestion with our technical team is working on several improvements to the Search functionality. With the latest improvement, when you press B for search, the keyboard displays immediately. You can then press and hold any of the arrow keys to skip quickly through the letters and it will wrap around to the next row.
With the next phase of improvements, when you press B for Search, the program list displayed to the right of the keyboard will be positioned on the title of the program you are either currently watching or have navigated to in the Guide.
A later phase of improvements will allow you to search for a channel number by entering the name of the network. It will further consolidate multiple listings for the same show.

Interesting... they got specific. Looks like Sort by Favorites is gone in MDN in more than one division.

I'd take issue with the "immediately." While my rig is mostly as sprightly as Passport, this function does take a long pause to come up. VERY good news a Passport feature is coming back, i.e. you can get directly to a listing of the show that was selected in the guide. THAT was how I used to do conflict resolution... it worked very quickly so I didn't see a need for much automation.

I'm hoping this is intended for 2.4.6-21 and we get it slipstreamed first! Would be a payback for suffering through the slings and arrows I took for being told I had Ooopa-Loompas invading my box (which seems to have been a version nobody has seen as yet).

You know Time warner cable's policy you can never have to many Ooompa-Loompas running around ! Oomppa loompa doop po dee doo we got another surprise just for you (navigator bugs)....J/k :D

Time Warner's response ... unsatisfactory, as expected:

Thank you for contacting Time Warner Cable Email Support.
I understand after the Navigator upgrade, sort by favorites feature is unavailable. You have found that this feature is still on the website.
I apologize for the inconvenience and will be glad to help you.
Thank you for bringing this to our notice. We will share your suggestion with our technical team is working on several improvements to the Search functionality. With the latest improvement, when you press B for search, the keyboard displays immediately. You can then press and hold any of the arrow keys to skip quickly through the letters and it will wrap around to the next row.
With the next phase of improvements, when you press B for Search, the program list displayed to the right of the keyboard will be positioned on the title of the program you are either currently watching or have navigated to in the Guide.
A later phase of improvements will allow you to search for a channel number by entering the name of the network. It will further consolidate multiple listings for the same show.

The response could have been better, but that is better than many of the generic e-mail answers I have gotten over the years! I would give that answer a 6/10, because it does tell us some things:

One thing though, our current program list at least in the version I have is on the LEFT side of the screen, not the right.

I agree that it is great that a future update will allow the selector to appear on the show you are watching or immediately on the title of what you are searching! Great!

And Keyword Search is "sort of" talked about when they say you can search for a channel number by entering the name of the network. (i.e name of a network as in "Keyword")

And better consolidation of multiple listings to find what you want? That's cool by me! The only way they can go with that is up.

Not too bad of an E-mail response IMO.

Jack

You know Time warner cable's policy you can never have to many Ooompa-Loompas running around ! Oomppa loompa doop po dee doo we got another surprise just for you (navigator bugs)....J/k :D

I think Abyss is gonna be like Ralphie in "A Christmas Story" where Ralphie wanted a Red-Rider BB-gun for Christmas, ("You'll shoot your eye out, kid!!! LOL!) but instead of that, Abyss is gonna ask for Navigator!!!! hahahaha!!!!

So Abyss, back to our Willy Wonka Navigator spoof! How many Gator Bars did you buy in the hope of finding 1 of the 5 lucky Golden Gator Tickets in the contest sponsored by your division, so you can get Navigator on your box?!!!! LOL!

Jack

TWC Plans to Eliminate STBs
By Brian Santo
CedMagazine.com - November 05, 2009

Long term, CPE spending will see a fundamental shift. Britt said TWC is beginning to work on an architecture that will move set-tops to a single device central in the home. TWC will send one signal to the home, rather than multiple signals as it does today, and this central device will distribute the constituent elements – video, voice, data – to the appropriate end-user devices in the home. Britt said chip companies – which he did not identify – are working on that now. This change in direction, he said, will evolve over the next five or six years.
http://www.cedmagazine.com/News-TWC-STB-Promotion-on-Demand-110509.aspx (http://www.cedmagazine.com/News-TWC-STB-Promotion-on-Demand-110509.aspx)


Although there may be some truth behind the announcement, this kind of long-range announcement typically has more to do with investor relations than anything else.

The response could have been better, but that is better than many of the generic e-mail answers I have gotten over the years! I would give that answer a 6/10, because it does tell us some things:

One thing though, our current program list at least in the version I have is on the LEFT side of the screen, not the right.

I agree that it is great that a future update will allow the selector to appear on the show you are watching or immediately on the title of what you are searching! Great!

And Keyword Search is "sort of" talked about when they say you can search for a channel number by entering the name of the network. (i.e name of a network as in "Keyword")

And better consolidation of multiple listings to find what you want? That's cool by me! The only way they can go with that is up.

Not too bad of an E-mail response IMO.

Jack

While this would be a welcome addition, I certainly hope that this is not the supposed Keyword Search thing they are working on. I (and not only me) assumed that this means search for keywords in program descrioptions.

While this would be a welcome addition, I certainly hope that this is not the supposed Keyword Search thing they are working on. I (and not only me) assumed that this means search for keywords in program descriptions.

I most definitely agree. Keyword search SHOULD include keywords in program descriptions. If you want to type in a network and get listings as a sub-set feature, OK. But don't sacrifice the Keyword Search we remember from Passport for that!

How do you think being able to type in a network and get listings would be useful, when at least as I see it that's what the program guide grid already does? Let's hope this is not some repetitious feature.

It sounds like the improvements will be subtle, but building off of the foundation that Navigator already has. By that I mean, I would suspect we will NOT see a totally different type of GUI for searching for a long time, but a building and improving off of what is already there. Some of the layout like I suggested in a past post about putting the C button back in the Time Grid to do searches, it was pointed out that maybe TWC might not be able to do that because of the potential for copyright violations. If that design is Passport's search method that they devised.

I think what they are doing will help in searching, it's just too early to speculate how much.

Jack

Let us not forget that a lot of us got a downgrade in program data during the 'gatoring process. If we had a real "search by any term" now, I would still not be able to look for movies by specific directors/actors. Not to mention an ability to have a recurring search... so if it has no hits this week, it stays around because it may get a hit a month from now. JUST being able to search on any term in a description is only 1/2 of what we need... err, I mean what we HAD.

Yes, I do read some are almost getting back to the "state of the guide info" many of us enjoyed for YEARS, but many of us are still waiting and have NO idea if or when we might see this. Strategically, a guide data return to it's former glory HAS to precede any return of search functionality we had had.

I've tried to see a pattern, but for some reason I can't. Every now and then, I'll see a message pop up about a recording set to happen in the next 2-3 minutes or so, offering me a choice of having it record, or canceling it. There seem to crop up at odd, random moments... anyone have any idea of why???

In fairness, I don't think this is software specific, I recall seeing this under vastly different software, but maybe not quite as frequently... and it does NOT happen all THAT frequently anyway.

I've tried to see a pattern, but for some reason I can't. Every now and then, I'll see a message pop up about a recording set to happen in the next 2-3 minutes or so, offering me a choice of having it record, or canceling it. There seem to crop up at odd, random moments... anyone have any idea of why???

In fairness, I don't think this is software specific, I recall seeing this under vastly different software, but maybe not quite as frequently... and it does NOT happen all THAT frequently anyway.

I get that message 1 minute before a recording is about to start IF the recording requires the use of the tuner I am currently watching a different channel with. I get the chance to approve the recording (in which case the tuner will retune to the needed channel automatically) or cancel the recording, in which case I get to continue watching what I am watching.

I have never seen it at anything greater than 1 minute prior to scheduled recording, and if two recordings are scheduled to start, it pops up the two scheduled recordings for approval in succession.

If the second tuner is available to perform a single scheduled recording while I am watching another program, the message does not pop-up.

A similar message pops up if you are simultaneously recording two programs and watching one of them live if you attempt to change the channel... giving you the chance to either abort the channel change or abort the recording.

It seems to be consistent and logical behavior, at least with my version of ODN. YMMV.

I get that message 1 minute before a recording is about to start IF the recording requires the use of the tuner I am currently watching a different channel with. I get the chance to approve the recording (in which case the tuner will retune to the needed channel automatically) or cancel the recording, in which case I get to continue watching what I am watching.

I have never seen it at anything greater than 1 minute prior to scheduled recording, and if two recordings are scheduled to start, it pops up the two scheduled recordings for approval in succession.

If the second tuner is available to perform a single scheduled recording while I am watching another program, the message does not pop-up.

A similar message pops up if you are simultaneously recording two programs and watching one of them live if you attempt to change the channel... giving you the chance to either abort the channel change or abort the recording.

Interesting, yes that was the case last night, but it did ask about both shows. And I could swear I've seen the same thing happen when there was only one show scheduled and nothing being recorded. Not to mention the times when I am watching something, one show is scheduled and the box automatically switches to the channel being recorded.

Probably goes along with my diastase for software designed as if I'm an idiot so it works very hard to shield the things I want control over... which tries to "manage" in THEIR way what I want to manage in MY way, so I am prevented from doing things I want to be able to do... like being forced to have 2 things being recorded at the same time to accommodate the conflict resolution "system," which means I can NOT switch off to another channel for 2-3 minutes, say during commercials. Or checking into another sporting event going on...

I think Abyss is gonna be like Ralphie in "A Christmas Story" where Ralphie wanted a Red-Rider BB-gun for Christmas, ("You'll shoot your eye out, kid!!! LOL!) but instead of that, Abyss is gonna ask for Navigator!!!! hahahaha!!!!

So Abyss, back to our Willy Wonka Navigator spoof! How many Gator Bars did you buy in the hope of finding 1 of the 5 lucky Golden Gator Tickets in the contest sponsored by your division, so you can get Navigator on your box?!!!! LOL!

Jack

I think i 'm th indian kid who was the hoax in the movie i get that close to seeing the gator factory and then it's pulled out from underneath me due to a technicality ....Just my luck huh !!! As for ralphie time warner put my eye out long ago waiting for the navigator deployment in our division....lol ! In my movie ralphie (me) got the crap kicked out of him by the folks who brought us ovaltine!

OK a guide question,

You have all seen that annoying issue when you are doing Category or Title Searches and as you Page+/- your way through the list it will say, " No upcoming shows are available for this title." I mean, WTF? That remains one of my pet peeves with Navigator! If the show is no longer available, it shouldn't be in the search list anymore! Clearly a programing "dolts" issue! LOL!

So from what you guys have seen, how long does that stupid message, "No Upcoming Shows Are Available For This Title." before the show is removed from the search? The other thing that I heard but I cannot verify this, is that the guide update refresh rate is between 24-48 hours. But I don't know if this varies by division, head-end, or box type? For example is ODN faster or more detailed in it's data than MDN? Or is a newer version of MDN better in data collection than ODN. We have heard that San Diego is experimenting with expanded guide-data in program listings and DVR show lists. But so far, that is only showing up on ODN boxes.

And it looks like Riverside Guy is still the ONLY guy in his New York division with that MDN 2.4.6-21 Navigator version on the boards!

Jack

Interesting, yes that was the case last night, but it did ask about both shows. And I could swear I've seen the same thing happen when there was only one show scheduled and nothing being recorded. Not to mention the times when I am watching something, one show is scheduled and the box automatically switches to the channel being recorded.

Probably goes along with my diastase for software designed as if I'm an idiot so it works very hard to shield the things I want control over... which tries to "manage" in THEIR way what I want to manage in MY way, so I am prevented from doing things I want to be able to do... like being forced to have 2 things being recorded at the same time to accommodate the conflict resolution "system," which means I can NOT switch off to another channel for 2-3 minutes, say during commercials. Or checking into another sporting event going on...

I wonder if there is some quirk in the MDN (or MDN _21) buffering logic that makes it think the other tuner is in use when it really is available. I can honestly say that I do not ever recall having the message pop-up without there being an existing recording in progress on one tuner or having TWO new recordings about to begin.

Also, not to beat a very old dead horse again, but... It's probably because of the 360GB HDD and rarely, if ever, being close to running out of drive space, but I still never see the need or have the inkling to cancel a scheduled show. Right now I'm about as full as it ever gets... still have the Jets, Giants and Panthers games from this past weekend on there, along with more than half of this week's series recordings still unwatched, plus the last two Fringe episodes from before the break... and I'm still only at something like 51 % full (which, of course WOULD be a problem with a 160GB drive).

I wonder if there is some quirk in the MDN (or MDN _21) buffering logic that makes it think the other tuner is in use when it really is available. I can honestly say that I do not ever recall having the message pop-up without there being an existing recording in progress on one tuner or having TWO new recordings about to begin.

I echo the above. If one tuner is free there should be no reason for a conflict. Strange stuff. Riverside, I can't remember if you answered this or not, but have you considered swapping out your box, or did you say things got better after the update to MDN 2.4.6-21? (except for this issue.) Must be those damn Oompa Loompas again!!!! LOL!

Jack

OK a guide question,

You have all seen that annoying issue when you are doing Category or Title Searches and as you Page+/- your way through the list it will say, " No upcoming shows are available for this title." I mean, WTF? That remains one of my pet peeves with Navigator! If the show is no longer available, it shouldn't be in the search list anymore! Clearly a programing "dolts" issue! LOL!

So from what you guys have seen, how long does that stupid message, "No Upcoming Shows Are Available For This Title." before the show is removed from the search? The other thing that I heard but I cannot verify this, is that the guide update refresh rate is between 24-48 hours. But I don't know if this varies by division, head-end, or box type? For example is ODN faster or more detailed in it's data than MDN? Or is a newer version of MDN better in data collection than ODN. We have heard that San Diego is experimenting with expanded guide-data in program listings and DVR show lists. But so far, that is only showing up on ODN boxes.

And it looks like Riverside Guy is still the ONLY guy in his New York division with that MDN 2.4.6-21 Navigator version on the boards!

Jack

Jack, the only thing I've noticed is those shows tend to be ones that had "just" been on. As in I saw them on at inconvenient times, but decided to search for a subsequent show BUT none were available.

I have a sneaky feeling data is more a function of what one's division does with it than MDN or ODN. At least that makes sense... but WTF do I know<g>?

Also, not to beat a very old dead horse again, but... It's probably because of the 360GB HDD and rarely, if ever, being close to running out of drive space, but I still never see the need or have the inkling to cancel a scheduled show. Right now I'm about as full as it ever gets... still have the Jets, Giants and Panthers games from this past weekend on there, along with more than half of this week's series recordings still unwatched, plus the last two Fringe episodes from before the break... and I'm still only at something like 51 % full (which, of course WOULD be a problem with a 160GB drive).

Indeed, drive space is an issue as well. I never have more than 6 hours on there, and frequently half or less that (right now I have 3 hours and one has an exclamation mark). Yet almost ALL the time most of those have exclamation marks next to them! Of corse, exacerbated by the fact it looks three full days out, but it's more annoying than a total deal killer.

I figure I can muddle though until I get really motivated to start running downtown to see if I can get a Sammie. But even then, I'd still hate losing the ability to pop around the dial elsewhere during commercials.

I echo the above. If one tuner is free there should be no reason for a conflict. Strange stuff. Riverside, I can't remember if you answered this or not, but have you considered swapping out your box, or did you say things got better after the update to MDN 2.4.6-21? (except for this issue.) Must be those damn Oompa Loompas again!!!! LOL!

Jack

Like I said, they were recollections, not absolute facts! Now that I see the logic, I can pay better attention the next time it happens...

I got -21 on conversation... certain of what I claimed to be out and out bugs DO seem to have been corrected in what I'd call a slipstream upgrade... during most of that time I was incorrectly thinking others HAD -21. Hell, only the northern end of Manhattan got it and the most knowledgeable/reliable forum member in my head end immediately went and got a HDC!

I have a feeling that TWC will half ass their keyword search feature. Maybe it will be good or maybe it will suck.

I have a feeling that TWC will half ass their keyword search feature. Maybe it will be good or maybe it will suck.

My guess would be that they will NOT have what I'd call a "retained search." Wherein you can do a search, get no hits but can set it like a series recording so that when it DOES get a hit, it will schedule that hit(s). To me, that makes a search function almost useless.

Not to mention we also need a significant upgrade in program data. They undoubtedly GET a lot more, we obviously PAY for all of it, but we only get a small subset of that data

We've cussed and discussed the brain dead Navigator search feature, but my complaint is that if they aren't going to improve it, at least make what they have useable. I wanted to see what college football was on today. Knowing that all games are called "College Football", I entered that as my search criteria. What I got was dozens of shows called College Football, each with multiple listings. I had to open each one and scroll it until the date showed tomorrow's date, then scroll past the rest of the week until I could open the next one. It's essentially useless.

And I can't seem to see any pattern to how they group their shows within each group. Some had a single game on multiple channels and multiple days, but others had several different games and air dates grouped together. If they would at least put all games in a single group, I could limit my scrolling to the day I'm interested in.

Fortunately, the TV Guide site has a variety of search features that finally gave me what I was looking for. Probabably better than using Navigator even if TW fixes it.

We've cussed and discussed the brain dead Navigator search feature, but my complaint is that if they aren't going to improve it, at least make what they have usable. I wanted to see what college football was on today. Knowing that all games are called "College Football", I entered that as my search criteria. What I got was dozens of shows called College Football, each with multiple listings. I had to open each one and scroll it until the date showed tomorrow's date, then scroll past the rest of the week until I could open the next one. It's essentially useless.

And I can't seem to see any pattern to how they group their shows within each group. Some had a single game on multiple channels and multiple days, but others had several different games and air dates grouped together. If they would at least put all games in a single group, I could limit my scrolling to the day I'm interested in.

I agree 100%.

Title searches like I said are OK for movies or shows where you know the title is definite. But sports titles cover too many wide lists of individual games. College Football as a Title Result doesn't make specific games any easier to find.

My guess is that in a future software update, the keyboard might include results from Keyword Searches and more truncated results so that you don't have to open up 20 different "College Football" tiers to get to the game you want to see.

I would give anything if TWC engineering techs would visit our forum so that we could discuss future updates and how search results could be improved!!! Get them and the customers involved in the process! What are they so afraid of revealing planned updates to us?

Jack

My guess would be that they will NOT have what I'd call a "retained search." Wherein you can do a search, get no hits but can set it like a series recording so that when it DOES get a hit, it will schedule that hit(s). To me, that makes a search function almost useless.Passport Echo had that feature--they called it a "Keyword Series Recording". As you know, TiVo's Wishlists are exactly what you want and a lot more--we talked about that back here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17373480#post17373480).

That would also be nice.

OK a guide question,

You have all seen that annoying issue when you are doing Category or Title Searches and as you Page+/- your way through the list it will say, " No upcoming shows are available for this title." I mean, WTF? That remains one of my pet peeves with Navigator! If the show is no longer available, it shouldn't be in the search list anymore! Clearly a programing "dolts" issue! LOL!

So from what you guys have seen, how long does that stupid message, "No Upcoming Shows Are Available For This Title." before the show is removed from the search? The other thing that I heard but I cannot verify this, is that the guide update refresh rate is between 24-48 hours. But I don't know if this varies by division, head-end, or box type? For example is ODN faster or more detailed in it's data than MDN? Or is a newer version of MDN better in data collection than ODN. We have heard that San Diego is experimenting with expanded guide-data in program listings and DVR show lists. But so far, that is only showing up on ODN boxes.

And it looks like Riverside Guy is still the ONLY guy in his New York division with that MDN 2.4.6-21 Navigator version on the boards!

Jack

Just a thought but I suppose it's possible that the guide gets pre-loaded with a show when it's season starts for the benefit of the series pass manager and they need to sit in there so your season passes kick back in when the show starts back up or some other hidden or future benefit of the list. Honestly I've not seen this error yet myself on my ODN 2.5 dev release but I haven't really been looking for it either. They just pushed it out last week (to employees only) and I haven't thoroughly dug through it yet.

We've cussed and discussed the brain dead Navigator search feature, but my complaint is that if they aren't going to improve it, at least make what they have useable. I wanted to see what college football was on today. Knowing that all games are called "College Football", I entered that as my search criteria. What I got was dozens of shows called College Football, each with multiple listings. I had to open each one and scroll it until the date showed tomorrow's date, then scroll past the rest of the week until I could open the next one. It's essentially useless.

And I can't seem to see any pattern to how they group their shows within each group. Some had a single game on multiple channels and multiple days, but others had several different games and air dates grouped together. If they would at least put all games in a single group, I could limit my scrolling to the day I'm interested in.

Fortunately, the TV Guide site has a variety of search features that finally gave me what I was looking for. Probabably better than using Navigator even if TW fixes it.

The difficulty finding a particular college football game when using Navigator's search functionality is probably my biggest per peeve about Navigator.

Found another diagnostic channel. I won't say what the number was but it was a very truncated one and it's for installers. I wouldn't recommend touching this channel as you really can't get a lot of information on it. I have ODN v3.1.3_2.

Found another diagnostic channel. I won't say what the number was but it was a very truncated one and it's for installers. I wouldn't recommend touching this channel as you really can't get a lot of information on it. I have ODN v3.1.3_2.

Sounds a lot like 996 here. Used to be a single page with software version listed, now it's 6 pages. Much easier to read than the 28 page extended diagnostics which overlay the playing channel and, at times, is very hard to read.

Except it's very hard to get out of and you need to be a technician.

The difficulty finding a particular college football game when using Navigator's search functionality is probably my biggest per peeve about Navigator.

You have probably never had SARA. Boy was that a nightmare. WOODY

Except it's very hard to get out of and you need to be a technician.

Looks like Navigator has some serious competition. Moxi was recently purchased by Arris and they have now introduced a 3 tuner HD DVR with a moxi mate extender for $799 and no monthly fees. Later this year they will introduce firmware that will enable the mate extender to tune live tv.

Right now I have two SA8300HDs which cost me $30 a month(2 x $9.95 for DVR service + a $10 charge for the second box).

For $800 Moxi has the following advantages over Navigator.

- widescreen guide
- HD guide
- a real search engine
- multi-room viewing
- centralized playlist
- Playon for playing PC content
- 500GB hard drive
- 6TB eSata support

All that additional functionality and a break even point of 27 months at which time I save $30 a month(no doubt it will be more than that in 2 years with TWC!).

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/11/10/moxi-fall-update-comes-with-a-lower-price-and-a-new-3-tuner-model/

Looks like Navigator has some serious competition. Moxi was recently purchased by Arris and they have now introduced a 3 tuner HD DVR with a moxi mate extender for $799 and no monthly fees. Later this year they will introduce firmware that will enable the mate extender to tune live tv.

Right now I have two SA8300HDs which cost me $30 a month(2 x $9.95 for DVR service + a $10 charge for the second box).

For $800 Moxi has the following advantages over Navigator.

- widescreen guide
- HD guide
- a real search engine
- multi-room viewing
- centralized playlist
- Playon for playing PC content
- 500GB hard drive
- 6TB eSata support

All that additional functionality and a break even point of 27 months at which time I save $30 a month(no doubt it will be more than that in 2 years with TWC!).

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/11/10/moxi-fall-update-comes-with-a-lower-price-and-a-new-3-tuner-model/

Ah, beat me to the punch! Yeah I caught this yesterday... one odd thing is the 3 tuner model seems only to be available with the MoxiMate, but not by itself. Obviously ONLY of interest to them with more than one room w/TVs. Curiously, that MoxiMate is 300. So MAYBE they MAY offer the 3 tuner model for 600, by itself.

BTW, the original 2 tuner, 500G drive moidel is now priced at 500.

Very intriguing.

From the description, it very much sounds like it is NOT a <tru2way> box. Which I think means that if they go bust, the box becomes a doorstop... while if it IS a <tru2way> I think that means it can get guide data frrom your local cable MSO... right?

Ah, beat me to the punch! Yeah I caught this yesterday... one odd thing is the 3 tuner model seems only to be available with the MoxiMate, but not by itself. Obviously ONLY of interest to them with more than one room w/TVs. Curiously, that MoxiMate is 300. So MAYBE they MAY offer the 3 tuner model for 600, by itself.


I'm almost ready to go for that deal. Removing the favorite sorting pushed me over the edge so I'm ready to dump VOD features (which I rarely use) and put up with the tuning adapter. I'll probably order it for next week delivery when I can schedule a Cablecard installation, because obviously you can't do it yourself - this is TWC, so that would be too easy.

The Moxi Mate will also replace the cable box in the bedroom so that's one less fee I have to give TWC.

The only downside is the three tuners probably won't get their full potential here if TWC is using the huge Cisco adapters which only support two tuner SDV.

All that additional functionality and a break even point of 27 months at which time I save $30 a month(no doubt it will be more than that in 2 years with TWC!).

At this point I don't care if it costs more money in the short term. I've just had enough of the minuscule drive sizes and poor features of Navigator.

Moxi is still a gamble of course. Arris could dump the entire product line if they decide it was an unprofitable acquisition, but I still don't like the Tivo interface so I'll take the risk.

Plus if I can use the Moxi to watch Hulu on a TV without having to build a new HTPC or keep attaching my laptop then that's another selling point.

I'm almost ready to go for that deal. Removing the favorite sorting pushed me over the edge so I'm ready to dump VOD features (which I rarely use) and put up with the tuning adapter. I'll probably order it for next week delivery when I can schedule a Cablecard installation, because obviously you can't do it yourself - this is TWC, so that would be too easy.

The Moxi Mate will also replace the cable box in the bedroom so that's one less fee I have to give TWC.

The only downside is the three tuners probably won't get their full potential here if TWC is using the huge Cisco adapters which only support two tuner SDV.

I just emailed Moxi asking them if the new 3 tuner HD DVR could be used with 2 tuning adapters. I will let you know what they say.

The guy who has the Ceton six tuner card for his PC here in Charlotte is using 3 tuning adapters with it.

Plus if I can use the Moxi to watch Hulu on a TV without having to build a new HTPC or keep attaching my laptop then that's another selling point.To watch HULU on Moxi you have to buy one of the UPnP/DLNA servers (PlayOn (www.playon.tv), for $40) and run it on a PC in your LAN. You cannot access HULU unless PlayOn is running.

To watch HULU on Moxi you have to buy one of the UPnP/DLNA servers (PlayOn (www.playon.tv), for $40) and run it on a PC in your LAN. You cannot access HULU unless PlayOn is running.

The PlayOn license is included in the price of the Moxi.

The PlayOn license is included in the price of the Moxi.At the bottom of this (http://moxi.com/us/faq.html) Moxi FAQ page it states:* PlayOn software and third party content services sold separately. Twonky needed for Mac.Perhaps you're referring to Moxi's generous offer of a 14-day trial PlayOn license (which anyone can get from MediaMall :rolleyes:) made on this (http://www.moxi.info/us/play_on.html) page.

EDIT: I see that they are offering a free PlayOn license for a limited time (until 30 November) as stated on this (http://moxi.com/us/play_on.html) page.

EDIT: I see that they are offering a free PlayOn license for a limited time (until 30 November) as stated on this (http://moxi.com/us/play_on.html) page.

Yup, that's it.

I already set up a new LAN arrangement to use WMC7 on my 360 so that will be an easy install.

Looking at this new Moxi deal reminded me of the multi-room DVR feature that's been "coming soon" for years.

http://www.cedmagazine.com/time-warner-plugs-in-s-a-multi-room.aspx

I just emailed Moxi asking them if the new 3 tuner HD DVR could be used with 2 tuning adapters. I will let you know what they say.

The guy who has the Ceton six tuner card for his PC here in Charlotte is using 3 tuning adapters with it.

The way it worked as I recall is this: If you are a Motorola area, their tuning adapters will run up to 6 tuners at a time. Cisco/Scientific Atlanta areas, their tuning adapters only do 2 at a time and need multiple adapters if you have more than 2 tuners in your box. So all depends on your area as to what you need.

The way it worked as I recall is this: If you are a Motorola area, their tuning adapters will run up to 6 tuners at a time. Cisco/Scientific Atlanta areas, their tuning adapters only do 2 at a time and need multiple adapters if you have more than 2 tuners in your box. So all depends on your area as to what you need.Apparently the Cisco TAs have a software problem, since there's nothing physical that would prevent them from handling the 6 tuners M-Cards are required to be able to deal with. Maybe they'll fix it with a firmware upgrade.

Moxi might not be set up to deal with multiple TAs. Their users guide (http://moxi.com/us/support/MC4R/moxi_hd_dvr_users_guide.pdf) tells you to ask your cable installer whether their TA can handle 3 tuners (second paragraph of page 120), but doesn't say what you should do if the answer is no.

I dunno. That's just what I have found through my own research and other anecdotes around the net. It is possible I guess they could make it 6 tuner compatible with a simple firmware upgrade, but honestly I would not wager your life savings on it if I were you. ;)

I dunno. That's just what I have found through my own research and other anecdotes around the net. It is possible I guess they could make it 6 tuner compatible with a simple firmware upgrade, but honestly I would not wager your life savings on it if I were you. ;)As a CE firmware engineer I cannot imagine what the hardware limitation could possibly be, unless they're so tight on memory as to not be able to afford the few hundred bytes it'd take to store status for four more tuners.

I have MDN Navigator, (MDN 2.4.6-19)

And have noticed an improvement in movie listings where when when you Press Info. The listing is expanded to now include the names of actors in parenthesis that are in the movie. Sometimes this data will also show in the left hand side of the screen. I am also hoping for more detailed series data soon.

Updates coming:

1.) The positioning of the cursor immediately on the show you are watching when doing a Keyboard Search or a Category Search

2.) The reduction or narrowing of duplicate program listings as search results are typed by the user.

3.) The ability to type in the name of a network and see a Program List. I hope and insist that they expand this so that the user can key in any information and any part of a program description is returned to them. A true Keyword Search function.

Things Being Worked on in the Labs for Navigator:

1.) Remote DVR management

2.) Multi-room DVR functionality.

Jack

I have MDN Navigator, (MDN 2.4.6-19)

And have noticed an improvement in movie listings where when when you Press Info. The listing is expanded to now include the names of actors in parenthesis that are in the movie. Sometimes this data will also show in the left hand side of the screen. I am also hoping for more detailed series data soon.

Updates coming:

1.) The positioning of the cursor immediately on the show you are watching when doing a Keyboard Search or a Category Search

2.) The reduction or narrowing of duplicate program listings as search results are typed by the user.

3.) The ability to type in the name of a network and see a Program List. I hope and insist that they expand this so that the user can key in any information and any part of a program description is returned to them. A true Keyword Search function.

Things Being Worked on in the Labs for Navigator:

1.) Remote DVR management

2.) Multi-room DVR functionality.

Jack

Do not forget the copy to dvr or dvd burner which was in SARA but is going to be added to Navigator as a new feature in a future update. WOODY

My cousin said he heard from a reliable source in TWC that the sports theme catagory was going to be reworked to work with keyboard search to find games and teams. WOODY

My cousin said he heard from a reliable source in TWC that the sports theme category was going to be reworked to work with keyboard search to find games and teams. WOODY

That will help in searching, BIG TIME! I find it pretty easy to do theme searches for the one or two titles that I am looking for. But Title Searching for Sports as a stand-alone does not work very well. 15 choices of College Football matches where you have to open each one to see what game it is, is not very efficient.

Woody, you always told us how bad SARA was for Searching! For comparison, if you wanted to find a football game on SARA, what would you need to do?

In my area here in Wisconsin, the Sports Now category has been very truncated for about 1-2 months with only about 5-6 things showing up. Sometimes nothing at all. (For Navigator Newbies, I'm talking about the Access Menu when you press A.) News and Weather Now, HD Now, and Kids Now are always heavily populated. Maybe they might be working on some new ways to organize the sports data.

Jack

That will help in searching, BIG TIME! I find it pretty easy to do theme searches for the one or two titles that I am looking for. But Title Searching for Sports as a stand-alone does not work very well. 15 choices of College Football matches where you have to open each one to see what game it is, is not very efficient.

Woody, you always told us how bad SARA was for Searching! For comparison, if you wanted to find a football game on SARA, what would you need to do?

In my area here in Wisconsin, the Sports Now category has been very truncated for about 1-2 months with only about 5-6 things showing up. Sometimes nothing at all. (For Navigator Newbies, I'm talking about the Access Menu when you press A.) News and Weather Now, HD Now, and Kids Now are always heavily populated. Maybe they might be working on some new ways to organize the sports data.

Jack

HA HA HA. SARA haveing a search engine was a joke. Most times you had to look it up in the guide. If you got real real lucky it might be in their version of theme search.More cumberson than Navigator. Their version of keyboard search was to look it up by the first letter in the name such as NFl go thur the entire alphabet starting with NA to get to NFl.And I mean Na all shows NB all shows ect til you got to NFL. We also had no keyboard just downshiftimg thru entire list. You had to do this on any show you did a title search on belive it or not. It was ridicliousOnce you got to NFL you had to go thru all games just like Navigator. Navigator cuts out two steps for us SARA users..See why we think it.s a huge improvement. WOODY

HA HA HA. SARA haveing a search engine was a joke. Most times you had to look it up in the guide. If you got real real lucky it might be in their version of theme search.More cumberson than Navigator. Their version of keyboard search was to look it up by the first letter in the name such as NFl go thur the entire alphabet starting with NA to get to NFl.And I mean Na all shows NB all shows ect til you got to NFL. We also had no keyboard just downshiftimg thru entire list. You had to do this on any show you did a title search on belive it or not. It was ridicliousOnce you got to NFL you had to go thru all games just like Navigator. Navigator cuts out two steps for us SARA users..See why we think it.s a huge improvement. WOODY

LOL!!!! Wow!!!! now that SARA search gives new meaning to the word bad!!!! Holy crap! That makes Navigator search look like TIVO!!!!! Poor Abyss!!!! I don't know how he finds what he wants to watch! Somebody give this guy a Gator already!!!!! LOL!!!

Sounds like your Gator is doing very well and is happy, Woody! LOL!

Jack

And have noticed an improvement in movie listings where when when you Press Info. The listing is expanded to now include the names of actors in parenthesis that are in the movie. Sometimes this data will also show in the left hand side of the screen.

That's always been there. The movie info is just as laughable now as it's always been. They truncate the synopsis to the shortest, vaguest thing they can and then throw in an actor.

Like these:

"A New York cabby (Bruce Willis) tries to save Earth in 2259."

"People (Fisher Stevens, Michael McKean, Cynthia Gibb) see military robot as marketable."

"Bachelors (Tom Selleck, Steve Guttenberg, Ted Danson) learns [sic] Mary's mother wants to marry."

"Computer hacker (Robert Redford) and his pals do shady black-box job."

"An oil-rig crew must search for a nuclear submarine."

All those are well-known movies, but comedies, dramas, horror films, science-fiction? Classics? Award-winning?

Who knows? TWC should turn the guide data into a guessing game. Then it will at least bring back a feature that Passport had.

I have MDN Navigator, (MDN 2.4.6-19)

And have noticed an improvement in movie listings where when when you Press Info. The listing is expanded to now include the names of actors in parenthesis that are in the movie.

From the day I got 'gatored, I've seen this... BUT only on some movies (and sometimes, only one of 2 or 3 major actors/roles). Have yet to see a director. Still a major downgrade in info since Passport.

Truth be told, I DO notice some series having years listed... never DID see that before!

Still, we are seeing reports in scattered markets of the guide data getting better. The annoying thing is it may take YEARS to cover all TWC customers.

From the day I got 'gatored, I've seen this... BUT only on some movies (and sometimes, only one of 2 or 3 major actors/roles). Have yet to see a director. Still a major downgrade in info since Passport.

Truth be told, I DO notice some series having years listed... never DID see that before!

Still, we are seeing reports in scattered markets of the guide data getting better. The annoying thing is it may take YEARS to cover all TWC customers.

LOL!!! And keep in mind Riverside, you are one of the privileged to get MDN 2.4.6-21 when no one else has it!!!! Watch, you'll get Navigator 3 before anyone else on your box! (We'll just get something like MDN 2.5, which is in Beta now.)

Jack

Yep and are upgrade will be sara 2.0 ...big things happening in central ny division...big thing's !!! How's everybody been ???? :)

Note,

Subscribers of the optional Digital Sports Package. (in the Wisconsin area) An intermittent bug seems to occur where if you change channels, sometimes returning to a channel in the Sports Package displays a Channel Not Available Message. Going to another channel in the Sports Package and than back to the original channel brings the picture back again. However, they are adding several HD channels between now and the end of the year in small approximately weekly increments, so this could be a reason for the "Channel Not Available" bug.

Jack

Yep and are upgrade will be sara 2.0 ...big things happening in central ny division...big thing's !!! How's everybody been ???? :)

Hey Abyss,

I think you must feel like Charlie Bucket in Willy Wonka by now! Everyone is rushing out to find one of the 5 Golden Gator Tickets inside Gator Bars being given out by your division! The other four bratty kids Augustus Gloop, Violet Beauregard, Verruca Salt, and Mike Teevee already found Gator tickets, have Navigator on their boxes, and are getting ready to tour the TWC factory.

Jack trying to give consolation to Abyss:

"Abyss, there are 100,000 people in your division and only 5 of them are gonna find Golden Gator Tickets." Even if you had a sack full of money you probably wouldn't find one. And when this contest is over, you'll be no different than the millions of others who didn't find one." Maybe someday things will change."

Abyss: "But when? When will they change?"

Jack: "Probably when you least expect it"

(No sorry, I am not gonna sing "Cheer Up Abyss" (Charlie) which happens at this point in the movie!!!!)

*************************************

Now this is gonna happen someday. Abyss is gonna wake up and find Navigator on his box and be in shock! There's a note on his door from TWC:

Abyss coming to the board: "Look everybody!!!!!!! Look I got Navigator on my box it's mine!!!!!!!!!"

The Board: "You're pulling our legs Abyss, there aren't any more Gator Tickets."

Abyss: "No everybody!!!! I found this note from Time Warner on my door and when I turned on my TV Navigator was on it!!!!!!!!"

Abyss in shock and shaking reads the note to us

"Greetings to you the lucky subscriber who has just received Navigator, from Time Warner Cable!!! You will be thrilled beyond imagination with this revolutionary innovation in television! In your wildest dreams, you cannot imagine the marvelous surprises that await you!!!!"

Us: "Abyss!!!!! You've done it!!!!!"

Abyss sings "I've got a Navigator" (to the tune of "I've got a Golden Ticket" to the board!!!) hahahahaha!!!!

Jack

Lol....If i wasn't for my monitor going up i was going out and getting a series 3 (tivo). I love there interface look. :cool:

Lol....If i wasn't for my monitor going up i was going out and getting a series 3 (tivo). I love there interface look. :cool:

Are you still looking at a different provider come January 1st, 2010 if you don't have a Gator by that time? What are the other providers in your area? Here in Wisconsin it's TWC, U-Verse, Direct TV and Dish Network. We can't get FIOS because of some long-term agreement between Verizon and our state that prevents FIOS from being available here. Our area of the woods, and I do mean woods! LOL! has a lot of trees! so:

Dish or DTV-Out because of trees

U-Verse-Out because of crappy phone lines

Cable- Service has been OK. The only main problem for us is the cost involved. We will just try to re-bundle our All-In-One Package each 1-2 years to get a discounted rate. (Right now on a 2-year locked plan.)

Jack

Direct TV and Dish Network & time warner obviously ...that's it . Yep i'll be going tivo in the next month or two at least just in my living room on the 57" mitsubishi. I hear the PQ is better with a tivo dvr. At least that way when i get sick of looking at sara in the other two rooms there's my big screen i can tinker with ....LOL! So that way i can i have my gator and tivo tooo ! (whenever it gets deployed)

Cant wAit !!!!

Or this..... beats sara any day !!!

Or this..... beats sara any day !!!

My God that's scary how much that looks like NAVIGATOR. No kidding it does. WOODY

Direct TV and Dish Network & time warner obviously ...that's it . Yep i'll be going tivo in the next month or two at least just in my living room on the 57" mitsubishi. I hear the PQ is better with a tivo dvr. At least that way when i get sick of looking at sara in the other two rooms there's my big screen i can tinker with ....LOL! So that way i can i have my gator and tivo tooo ! (whenever it gets deployed)

Have you considered the Moxi we discussed yesterday?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17512203#post17512203

Lol....If i wasn't for my monitor going up i was going out and getting a series 3 (tivo). I love there interface look. :cool:

Might want to also check out the Moxie... it just got a BIG price drop.

How much did it drop riverside ? I can get a tivo series 3 for like $250 dollars.:)

How much did it drop riverside ? I can get a tivo series 3 for like $250 dollars.:)

$500 now but without a subscription fee, so it works out cheaper in the long run.

Assuming of course it has a long run. ;)

Thanks guys i appreciate the advice. I do like the interface for moxi to . Well i still have about another month or so before i make the switch.:)

I now have N on my Time Warner non DVR HD box and it is sloooooooooooooow! Besides that the volume control does not work either on the remote or the cable box. It can be mute or at full volume, no way to adjust it. Hopefully when my DVR gets N it will work! I did go to live chat a few minutes ago and they are going to have a tech guy here between 8 - 10 in the morning so I got that going for me!

We shall see if he/she can fix it! Saturday is a day when we use both sets a lot. I love football and my wife does not so they both get a workout on Saturday and Sunday. :(

How much did it drop riverside ? I can get a tivo series 3 for like $250 dollars.:)

That's a TiVo with a 160G drive, plus the 3 year plan adds another 300 to that.. or you can add 400 to that for the lifetime account; BUT after 3 years, if anything goes wrong with the unit, it will cost 150 to replace it plus 200 to "transfer" the lifetime accouint.

The Moxie has a 500G drive and is 500 bucks, that's it. no additional fees. Moxie can accept multi-disc external arrays up to 6T in size.

Moxie's warranty beyond one year seems unknown... then again, one can't really find anything public on TiVos past a year, that information is listed on AVS by users.

I am NOT promoting one over the other in any way... just saying that going from 800 to 500 on the Moxie sure does put it right into the fight.

UPDATE: Ah, just came across a good looking comparison:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17063966#post17063966

I now have N on my Time Warner non DVR HD box and it is sloooooooooooooow! Besides that the volume control does not work either on the remote or the cable box. It can be mute or at full volume, no way to adjust it. Hopefully when my DVR gets N it will work! I did go to live chat a few minutes ago and they are going to have a tech guy here between 8 - 10 in the morning so I got that going for me!

We shall see if he/she can fix it! Saturday is a day when we use both sets a lot. I love football and my wife does not so they both get a workout on Saturday and Sunday. :(

You can reprogram your control to work the volumn with Navigator. The TWC tech will probably do it for you. WOODY

That's a TiVo with a 160G drive, plus the 3 year plan adds another 300 to that.. or you can add 400 to that for the lifetime account; BUT after 3 years, if anything goes wrong with the unit, it will cost 150 to replace it plus 200 to "transfer" the lifetime accouint.

The Moxie has a 500G drive and is 500 bucks, that's it. no additional fees. Moxie can accept multi-disc external arrays up to 6T in size.

Moxie's warranty beyond one year seems unknown... then again, one can't really find anything public on TiVos past a year, that information is listed on AVS by users.

I am NOT promoting one over the other in any way... just saying that going from 800 to 500 on the Moxie sure does put it right into the fight.

UPDATE: Ah, just came across a good looking comparison:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17063966#post17063966

TIVO and MOXi are ok. However I used to have a TIVO and loved it. However when they go bad as all will do sooner or later I could not justify the cost of fixing or replaceing. With TWC I trot to my local office and replace a bad box at no cost to me. Navigator does 75% of what TIVO does in the dvr area which is good enough for me. The other options just cost to darn much. WOODY

My dilemma with time warner is being told we are getting navigator and here we are 9 months later and nothing ....so tivo or moxi are my only options as of right now. Moxi is an excellent choice but that's alot of money up front for me so you see my situation . If i had the $500 moxi would be the way to go but based on reviews tivo has a better head to head user rating . :confused:

My dilemma with time warner is being told we are getting navigator and here we are 9 months later and nothing ....so tivo or moxi are my only options as of right now. Moxi is an excellent choice but that's alot of money up front for me so you see my situation . If i had the $500 moxi would be the way to go but based on reviews tivo has a better head to head user rating . :confused:

I totally understand. I would give TWC at least until the first of the year before you make your move. But thats just my opinion. From what I have seen once they start seeding a SARA system with Navigator it moves out rather fast. WOODY

I noticed woody you made the comment that tivo is scarily similar...You mean by the interface alone or was it something else that made you feel that way. I do see the similarities as well. I think my wife has a tivo planned for christmas it maybe a work already in progress...LMAO.:cool:

My dilemma with time warner is being told we are getting navigator and here we are 9 months later and nothing ....so tivo or moxi are my only options as of right now. Moxi is an excellent choice but that's alot of money up front for me so you see my situation . If i had the $500 moxi would be the way to go but based on reviews tivo has a better head to head user rating . :confused:

Mmmm, if you opt for minimum expense up front, you get to pay $13/mo for TiVo. The 3 year sub pan is $8.33/mo. That bundle DOES go over a Moxie at current price.

Problem w/Moxie is very unknown, unsure future. They DID just get bought out, and that can easily go 2 ways.

Ah for the days of just putting up some rabbit ears to get half a dozen channels OR going to the movie house for 2 bucks a double feature along with a 50 cent coke and 75 cents for a tub of popcorn.

I totally understand. I would give TWC at least until the first of the year before you make your move. But thats just my opinion. From what I have seen once they start seeding a SARA system with Navigator it moves out rather fast. WOODY

Ah, sounds like my "muddle through" approach!

I'm sure TWC San Diego is testing a new version of Navigator with the improved search options. I think San Diego will see another update later this year with some Samsung bug fixes.

I'm sure TWC San Diego is testing a new version of Navigator with the improved search options. I think San Diego will see another update later this year with some Samsung bug fixes.

Yes!

I feel the same way. Watch TWC-San Diego's division everyone! They are one of the first divisions to often go public with new functions and features. I also heard that their division President is really good about responding to inquires.

Here in Wisconsin, we seem to get updates about 3-4 weeks after San Diego gets them.

If anyone has had other good public relations with division heads or timetables on Navigator updates, PLEASE POST! (Oh and indicate whether you hear the update is for MDN or ODN.) Just to review:

MDN: Is what is on all non-C SA boxes and the very old Pioneer units. It's what you get when your guide got (or gets) changed over from the Passport or SARA software. This software is downloaded to your existing boxes. It is believed that while some MDN boxes are still being given out, they are all refurbished. MDN runs software called MYSTRO.

ODN: Is pre-installed on any of the SA C-boxes and ALL of the new Samsung boxes. The software is called OCAP. All "new" factory-direct boxes from TWC run OCAP Navigator.

Jack

I noticed woody you made the comment that tivo is scarily similar...You mean by the interface alone or was it something else that made you feel that way. I do see the similarities as well. I think my wife has a tivo planned for christmas it maybe a work already in progress...LMAO.:cool:

It was the screen captures you put up, very Navigator looking. It seems Navigator has a lot of TIVO like features similar to PASSPORT. Hope TWC is paying TIVO those license fee's. WOODY

At this time i am beyond desperate for a change in interface.... i am that desperate i would pay for tivo .....even knowing the yearly cost ..... even knowing moxi with it's 500 dollar price tag is stand alone versus tivo's additional cost... it to is an avenue i will travel especially since time warner in my division is no rush to deploy are region with navigator.:mad:

Columbia, SC is the next division to convert SARA to Navigator.

http://www.yourtwc.com/navigatorfeedbackSC/public2.cfm

SC subscribers should use this form and send out feedback to TWC.

http://www.yourtwc.com/navigatorfeedbackSC/public2.cfm

SC subscribers should use this form and send out feedback to TWC.

Music to my ears!!!!

I'm not an SC sub, but as anything that goes back to corporate engineering is a plus. WE SHOULD ALL FILL THIS OUT!

Jack

I sent a message to AlexTWC on Twitter about Keyword Search and that he said it's coming in the next generation so stay tuned. I think it's coming in a future update.

I sent a message to AlexTWC on Twitter about Keyword Search and that he said it's coming in the next generation so stay tuned. I think it's coming in a future update.

Well,

Next generation is trying to sound cool, but I am sure that there are people on the forum that would like something more specific. I mean, this should NOT be something that any division should have to wait six months to get. This is something we should see by the first of the year, IF TWC cares.

Jack

Next generation is trying to sound cool, but I am sure that there are people on the forum that would like something more specific. I mean, this should NOT be something that any division should have to wait six months to get. This is something we should see by the first of the year, IF TWC cares.

For TWC a "next generation" product will drag the software screaming into 2007.

I was using Windows Media Center 7 today and it just reinforces how archaic Navigator is. You select an upcoming recording and it not only gives you full synopsis, but a long cast list and every other instance of the show listed for the next two weeks in a clean and attractive interface.
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/1311/7mc10ld.jpg

For TWC a "next generation" product will drag the software screaming into 2007.

I was using Windows Media Center 7 today and it just reinforces how archaic Navigator is. You select an upcoming recording and it not only gives you full synopsis, but a long cast list and every other instance of the show listed for the next two weeks in a clean and attractive interface.
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/1311/7mc10ld.jpg

That looks nice! Thanks Vision!

Jack

WOO HOO check out our new HD channels starting in December....

http://gadgetress.freedomblogging.com/2009/11/12/time-warner-adding-21-hd-channels-in-december/25981/

He could mean next software branches. I also mentioned Manual recording and Copy to VCR. He said that it will happen.

He could mean next software branches. I also mentioned Manual recording and Copy to VCR. He said that it will happen.

Well that's good!

At least they are working on it! If you mind, can you copy/paste what he said? (Obviously removing any key identifying information.)

Jack

His message was very cryptic and didn't really mention anything. He did say that it's going to happen.

Agreed...it's coming in the next gen. Stay tuned.

He agrees that Keyword Search, Manual Recording, and Copy to VCR will be in Navigator.

His message was very cryptic and didn't really mention anything. He did say that it's going to happen.



He agrees that Keyword Search, Manual Recording, and Copy to VCR will be in Navigator.

That's good!

I wonder if he means copy to DVD burner instead of copy to VCR, as VCR's are really moving to the stone age. I still have one with a DVD combo unit, but I think more people might get use out of a copy to DVD burner than copy to VCR. Very few people are videotaping anymore.

Jack

I think he also meant copy to DVD burner. Samsung is releasing a DVR with a DVD burner built in and this feature is required if you want to release a box with such a feature.

I have been gatored in Columbia SC! It is about time. So far it looks much better than SARA.

I think he also meant copy to DVD burner. Samsung is releasing a DVR with a DVD burner built in and this feature is required if you want to release a box with such a feature.

You could always use a dvd burner with the copy to vcr feature. But your right copy to dvd burner would be a better title or prehaps copy to external device or something like that. WOODY