I spoke to my cousin who has a source in TWC. I hear San Diego and Charlotte will be the areas keyword search will be tested first in. Look for it to be deployed early next year after the flood of HD channels they are releaseing now and the Sara to Navigator seeding.TWC has a lot on it's plate. WOODY

For TWC a "next generation" product will drag the software screaming into 2007.

Not to mention that the "next generation" to TWC is the post 2012 era... assuming the world lasts beyond 12/21/12.

I have been gatored in Columbia SC! It is about time. So far it looks much better than SARA.

Good!!!

Welcome to the "Gator Board" LOL!

Jack

Thanks Satch Man. I have been waiting for it. SARA was painful after having Direct Tivo.

I'll still stand by my statement the carolinas division always bring there " A" game....they should come up here in central ny and gator us ....Tired of all the reasoning behind not be gatored yet.Good to hear that the gatoring is going on at least you know there's some work in progress.:)

I'll still stand by my statement the carolinas division always bring there " A" game....they should come up here in central ny and gator us ....Tired of all the reasoning behind not be gatored yet.Good to hear that the gatoring is going on at least you know there's some work in progress.:)

Don't confuse a couple of test markets with the entire state of NC. TWC don't bring a thing to the game in the Raleigh market that hasn't been around the country in other test markets for years. We had Passport so we got screwed before SARA divisions. That's the only reason.

If TWC had an A-game here we wouldn't have had an SDV outage a few days ago knocking out most of the HD channels.

I simply mean are markets a gutter market .... An that i envy the way the rollout for navigator has gone in parts of the carolinas.;)

Don't confuse a couple of test markets with the entire state of NC. TWC don't bring a thing to the game in the Raleigh market that hasn't been around the country in other test markets for years. We had Passport so we got screwed before SARA divisions. That's the only reason.

If TWC had an A-game here we wouldn't have had an SDV outage a few days ago knocking out most of the HD channels.

I will have to defend the Greensboro division. The CSR's at the counter with a couple of exceptions are worthless. However the field guys and the CSR customer service reps over the phone are very knowlegable, courtous, and deliver on what they promise. I have never had a missed appointment and the fields tech's take all the time they need to get it correct. We all (myself included) have bashed TWC rightfully over the years. However for the TWC folk who do get it right they deserve a pat on the back. WOODY

6 weeks and counting !!!!:mad:

I'll still stand by my statement the Carolinas division always bring there " A" game....they should come up here in central ny and gator us ....Tired of all the reasoning behind not be gatored yet.Good to hear that the gatoring is going on at least you know there's some work in progress.:)

I feel so bad for you Abyss I mean it just gets to the point where you have to almost say F**K It! I don't know what they are doing down there in your division! My guess MIGHT be is that they could be getting the division to synchronize with the new Samsung boxes if there are some bugs there. But that should have nothing to do with a download rollout going from a SARA to MDN Navigator update. The HDC/new Samsung boxes still run ODN versions of Navigator that are pre-installed.

Jack

I got an email from TWC engineering that they do monitor forums. They appreciate all your feedback.

I will have to defend the Greensboro division. The CSR's at the counter with a couple of exceptions are worthless. However the field guys and the CSR customer service reps over the phone are very knowlegable, courtous, and deliver on what they promise. I have never had a missed appointment and the fields tech's take all the time they need to get it correct. We all (myself included) have bashed TWC rightfully over the years. However for the TWC folk who do get it right they deserve a pat on the back. WOODY

I have no problems with the field techs, they've all been cool with me, but the CSRs are next to useless at lower tiers.

And no matter how efficient their call-out guys are, it still isn't going to fix the underlying problems created by the CEOs and software developers.

I've had my original 3260 for a while and it's been a fine box but there are some issues with it.

The box will sometimes say please wait while changing channels. The VOD client won't load the preview feed and will say please wait. In order to fix that you have to change the channel to a non VOD one then go to the VOD channel.

Other than that it's a good box but there might be some bugs I don't know about since it's hooked up to an SDTV. TWC is working on those bugs and will deploy a fix in the near future.

A bug on my box SA-8300 is that the Sports Now Category in the Access Menu (Press A, horizontal scroll to Sports Now) is horribly truncated with anywhere from no shows present to only 5 at one time. And sometimes it will show a repeated title with the channel being the same, or the SD channel and the HD channel being the only difference in the Sports Now Category. Kids Now, News and Weather Now, and HDTV Now are properly and heavily populated.

The other thing is that the same channels always seem to show up, but the most important thing is that channels that you KNOW Sports are playing on now, do not show up in the list. The channels that show up most often, (note that it is never more than 5 at a time, and usually anywhere from 0-3 shows only) seem to be:

RFD TV (Optional Digital Choice Package Channel)

Sportsmen's Channel (Optional Digital Sports Package Channel)

Outdoor Life Channel (Optional Digital Sports Channel)

ESPN (rarely shows)

ESPN 2 (rarely shows)

Sports Now is supposed to show ALL of the Sports Channels that are showing Sports Now. Just to give an example ABC, NBC, and CBS sports programing never show up in the Sports Now Category even when sports are showing in the Time Grid The new CBS College Sports channel, ESPN U, NHL Network, MLB Baseball Network, NBA TV never show up in the Sports Now listings. This problem has been like this for at least three months, maybe as many as five.

I run Navigator version MDN 2.4.6-19.

Jack

I'll still stand by my statement the carolinas division always bring there " A" game....they should come up here in central ny and gator us ....Tired of all the reasoning behind not be gatored yet.Good to hear that the gatoring is going on at least you know there's some work in progress.:)

Or maybe you could just move to the Carolinas like everyone else from NY. :p

Filter Question?

I heard that if you have signal or pixiation problems, they can put a filter on your box. (TWC) How does this filter work and where does it go? (Is it something at the head-end?)

Jack

A bug on my box SA-8300 is that the Sports Now Category in the Access Menu (Press A, horizontal scroll to Sports Now) is horribly truncated with anywhere from no shows present to only 5 at one time. And sometimes it will show a repeated title with the channel being the same, or the SD channel and the HD channel being the only difference in the Sports Now Category. Kids Now, News and Weather Now, and HDTV Now are properly and heavily populated.

The other thing is that the same channels always seem to show up, but the most important thing is that channels that you KNOW Sports are playing on now, do not show up in the list. The channels that show up most often, (note that it is never more than 5 at a time, and usually anywhere from 0-3 shows only) seem to be:

RFD TV (Optional Digital Choice Package Channel)

Sportsmen's Channel (Optional Digital Sports Package Channel)

Outdoor Life Channel (Optional Digital Sports Channel)

ESPN (rarely shows)

ESPN 2 (rarely shows)

Sports Now is supposed to show ALL of the Sports Channels that are showing Sports Now. Just to give an example ABC, NBC, and CBS sports programing never show up in the Sports Now Category even when sports are showing in the Time Grid The new CBS College Sports channel, ESPN U, NHL Network, MLB Baseball Network, NBA TV never show up in the Sports Now listings. This problem has been like this for at least three months, maybe as many as five.

I run Navigator version MDN 2.4.6-19.

Jack

Jack the entire sports now is susposed to be reworked in a future update. Sports and Sports now will then either work with keyboard or perhaps keyword search. It's comeing just hold on. WOODY

Thanks Satch Man. I have been waiting for it. SARA was painful after having Direct Tivo.

Welcome to the Gator board prehaps for the most part one of the most helpful and civil boards on the web.:) WOODY

I think Keyword enabled Keyboard search will be coming sooner rather than later.

Welcome to the Gator board prehaps for the most part one of the most helpful and civil boards on the web.:) WOODY
Thanks Woody. I appreciate your posts and tips. :)

I simply mean are markets a gutter market .... An that i envy the way the rollout for navigator has gone in parts of the carolinas.;)

I think that VisionOn is correct that all the Carolinas divisions are not equal. The Charlotte division seems to be the more advanced from a subscriber equipment test market/rollout standpoint, possibly due to TWC corporate engineering being here. On the other hand, the Carolinas divisions ARE very closely aligned in regard to HD channel expansion and are all physically tied together and to the statewide master headend in Raleigh.

6 weeks and counting !!!!:mad:

What box do you have? Are not HDCs or Samsung boxes available (both were 'gatored from thje git-go)? Ever thought about getting a box swap?

Filter Question?

I heard that if you have signal or pixiation problems, they can put a filter on your box. (TWC) How does this filter work and where does it go? (Is it something at the head-end?)

Jack

Good question... usually "filters" block something out. Logic says it MAY be a way to filter some noise??? What kind of s/n ratio are you running?

8300HDC
HDMI -> HDMI switch -> TV
Optical -> AVR


I got switched from SARA to Navigator and Audio: Digital Output gets reset to HDMI every day unlike SARA. Is there a way to keep it set to Digital?

8300HDC
HDMI -> HDMI switch -> TV
Optical -> AVR


I got switched from SARA to Navigator and Audio: Digital Output gets reset to HDMI every day unlike SARA. Is there a way to keep it set to Digital?

That's a known old bug (started with the first 3* version) that does not seem high on their list. There is no workaround I know of - it will reset every time it need to redo the handshake (when you turn off and turn back on whatever is on the other side of HDMI connection, for example). I made a remote macro to set it back to Digital and run it every time, enjoying all the menus flashing ever so slowly :mad:

I think I counted 13 button presses for a macro. Maybe I should just come up with another HDMI cable and run it through the AVR. It does not seem like I should have to change my hardware because they changed their software.

8300HDC
HDMI -> HDMI switch -> TV
Optical -> AVR


I got switched from SARA to Navigator and Audio: Digital Output gets reset to HDMI every day unlike SARA. Is there a way to keep it set to Digital?This is a known problem with the latest ODN release for the 8300HDC. It seems to be a problem with HDMI connections. I had to go back to component connections to avoid the problem.

Good question... usually "filters" block something out. Logic says it MAY be a way to filter some noise??? What kind of s/n ratio are you running?

Wasn't for me,

Some guy in my area had pixiation on one of his HD channels (local) and the tech came out to check the box and it was fine and the signal and it was fine, and he said they put a filter on his box. Don't know if it helped. I will try to find out though!

Jack

Jack the entire sports now is supposed to be reworked in a future update. Sports and Sports now will then either work with keyboard or perhaps keyword search. It's coming just hold on. WOODY

LOL!!!! I got it on my Christmas List!!!! Hehehehehehe!!! I'll be waiting!!!! Hey Abyss, maybe you could get a new box with a Gator in it already! A Samsung or an HDC. At least than you would have one and you wouldn't have to look at SARA ever again! LOL!

Jack

8300HDC
HDMI -> HDMI switch -> TV
Optical -> AVR


I got switched from SARA to Navigator and Audio: Digital Output gets reset to HDMI every day unlike SARA. Is there a way to keep it set to Digital?

As others have noted, this is an old and well known issue... it does seem to be highly dependent on the TV connected and what EDID info it presents. I never had the issue when I had an 8300HDC connected to my A550 Samsung TV via HDMI and digital audio to my (then) non-HDMI receiver, but there is enough discussion in this thread to know that I was the lucky exception.

Does seem like a pretty significant issue for it to have been allowed to go on this long across several releases of ODN 3.x.

Probably not an option for you if they are just rolling out Navigator in your system but, FYI, the new Samsung boxes do not exhibit this issue.

SA8300HDC ....i don't think the samsung's are available around here guys...They hAVE been testing like forever and here w are near the end of the year and our division promised us and more then likely they will shatter our dreams.:mad:

That's a known old bug (started with the first 3* version) that does not seem high on their list. There is no workaround I know of - it will reset every time it need to redo the handshake (when you turn off and turn back on whatever is on the other side of HDMI connection, for example). I made a remote macro to set it back to Digital and run it every time, enjoying all the menus flashing ever so slowly :mad:

I set my audio to digitial and it stays there. Never have had to change it once. Version 313.2 ODN WOODY

SA8300HDC ....i don't think the samsung's are available around here guys...They hAVE been testing like forever and here w are near the end of the year and our division promised us and more then likely they will shatter our dreams.:mad:

Abyss try to get a 8240HDC or 8300HDC both should have Navigator on them. WOODY

I have a 8240 and a 8300 hdc i don't have navigator on either of them .:(

I set my audio to digitial and it stays there. Never have had to change it once. Version 313.2 ODN WOODY

Mine never changed, either... but many others with HDCs have had the issue.

volume still does not work and now TW is "aware" of the problem. I must have been one of the first to call and now they have several other calls. The problem that they have no solution for is this -- if you run HDMI for video and component cables for audio you will get the problem. The N system finds the HDMI first and changes its setting to reflect that so -- no sound! They have no real fix, a couple of workarounds but no fix. The tech guy said he was pretty sure we would have the same problem with our DVR hook up when TW changes that over. So much for surround set ups that work this way.

This set up also give a no signal screen for a second when you change HD channels.

It is nice to know that with N now TW makes more money since they don't have to pay SARA or Passport any more!

Please let SARA back in my life!:mad:

The Samsung 32xx have been deployed in NEO (maybe), Columbus, Desert Cities, and TWC San Diego. Both boxes are fine for me but there are some issues that need to be worked out. It will show Please wait on the VOD client and when you want to watch a VOD movie it still shows please wait. This will be fixed in a new firmware upgrade. Only affects the 3260 HD-STB. The 3270 uses the 2nd tuner for this. Love the 320 GB HDD and TWC corporate is working hard to fix all the bugs.

It is nice to know that with N now TW makes more money since they don't have to pay SARA or Passport any more!

Please let SARA back in my life!:mad:

And in a month I won't have to pay TWC for Navigator. My Moxi and Mate arrived today, so assuming the card and adapter install okay I just have to empty the 8300 recording backlog and it's going back.

I'm not waiting any longer for Navigator to be fixed or to reach a point where it can compete with the software standards of other guides and modern IPGs. I think five years is more than enough time for them to have reached that point.

And of course the drive capacities suck as much now as they did 3 years ago.

I'm not waiting any longer for Navigator to be fixed or to reach a point where it can compete with the software standards of other guides and modern IPGs. I think five years is more than enough time for them to have reached that point.


I should count up how much time in a day I spend looking at guides and IPGs. Can't be more than 60 seconds.

And in a month I won't have to pay TWC for Navigator. My Moxi and Mate arrived today, so assuming the card and adapter install okay I just have to empty the 8300 recording backlog and it's going back.

I'm not waiting any longer for Navigator to be fixed or to reach a point where it can compete with the software standards of other guides and modern IPGs. I think five years is more than enough time for them to have reached that point.

And of course the drive capacities suck as much now as they did 3 years ago.

What did you get with the Moxi? Are you getting the TWC IPG through that box? Or did you sign up for U-VERSE or Dish?

Jack

volume still does not work and now TW is "aware" of the problem. I must have been one of the first to call and now they have several other calls. The problem that they have no solution for is this -- if you run HDMI for video and component cables for audio you will get the problem. The N system finds the HDMI first and changes its setting to reflect that so -- no sound! They have no real fix, a couple of workarounds but no fix. The tech guy said he was pretty sure we would have the same problem with our DVR hook up when TW changes that over. So much for surround set ups that work this way.

This set up also give a no signal screen for a second when you change HD channels.

It is nice to know that with N now TW makes more money since they don't have to pay SARA or Passport any more!


Please let SARA back in my life!:mad:

What are the workarounds? I mean other than using HDMI or Component Cable for all audio and video equipment.

Jack

When the TV/box turn on go to volume controls in display and change the settings from HDMI to other or Dolby digital. You only have to do that every time you turn the TV on!

And don't touch the volume controls on the box or it will revert back to HDMI and there goes the sound!

Or you can disconnect the surround sound and use the speakers on the TV, which in my case the sound that way is really bad.

TW at its money grubbing finest!

I cannot have a dish where I live or I would be gone from TW.

When the TV/box turn on go to volume controls in display and change the settings from HDMI to other or Dolby digital. You only have to do that every time you turn the TV on!

And don't touch the volume controls on the box or it will revert back to HDMI and there goes the sound!

Or you can disconnect the surround sound and use the speakers on the TV, which in my case the sound that way is really bad.

TW at its money grubbing finest!

I cannot have a dish where I live or I would be gone from TW.

I do the first one (have a remote macro for it). I have volume controls on the remote punched through to the receiver volume. I have set up another button on the remote to do the DVR mute, and use that frequently - I have Closed Captioning set to "On with mute", so I use DVR mute as CC on/off, since it does not really do anything to do the sound, and changng CC through menus is painfully slow. This does not mess up the Dolby Digital setting.

And in a month I won't have to pay TWC for Navigator. My Moxi and Mate arrived today, so assuming the card and adapter install okay I just have to empty the 8300 recording backlog and it's going back.

I'm not waiting any longer for Navigator to be fixed or to reach a point where it can compete with the software standards of other guides and modern IPGs. I think five years is more than enough time for them to have reached that point.

And of course the drive capacities suck as much now as they did 3 years ago.

Please post your impressions on Moxi once you get a chance to play with it for a while (maybe on the Raleigh or Moxi forum, to avoid being too off topic here). I am very curious about it; I'd buy either it or a Tivo right away, but I'd be kicking myself if a tru2way version comes soon. I'll be buying one of those (did not decide which one yet) soon after tru2way version is there, or if they would say there won't be any for a long time. I hope there will be some kind of an announcements in January.

SA8300HDC ....i don't think the samsung's are available around here guys...They hAVE been testing like forever and here w are near the end of the year and our division promised us and more then likely they will shatter our dreams.:mad:

Wait... you have a 8300HDC that does NOT run ODN? Somehow I was under the impression ALL the HDCs TWC gave out ran it... the first "'gators" we had were HDCs almost 3 years ago.

And in a month I won't have to pay TWC for Navigator. My Moxi and Mate arrived today, so assuming the card and adapter install okay I just have to empty the 8300 recording backlog and it's going back.

I'm not waiting any longer for Navigator to be fixed or to reach a point where it can compete with the software standards of other guides and modern IPGs. I think five years is more than enough time for them to have reached that point.

And of course the drive capacities suck as much now as they did 3 years ago.

Brave guy! Moxi sure seems to have lots of promise, will be very interested in your experiences (in the Moxi thread I guess).

Did you get the 3 tuner deal?

FWIW, I see TiVo has some big price changes... probably in reaction to Moxi. The HD goes from 200 to 250, the XL (1T drive) goes from 650 to 500! And at Amazon, the XL is 420. SOME think this means a new box is around the corner... BUT I think it doubtful any new box is going to be over 500... unless there's a 3 tuner option.

VERY interesting time for DVRs I dare say!

What did you get with the Moxi? Are you getting the TWC IPG through that box? Or did you sign up for U-VERSE or Dish?

Jack

It's Moxi's own IPG. As I understand it, getting, ability to get the TWC IPG means both the box and TWC in said market are <try2way>... we know Moxi is not.

I'd buy either it or a Tivo right away, but I'd be kicking myself if a tru2way version comes soon. I'll be buying one of those (did not decide which one yet) soon after tru2way version is there, or if they would say there won't be any for a long time. I hope there will be some kind of an announcements in January.

TiVo XL now 420 @ Amazon. Many THINK price drop means new box soon... but that COULD be wrong, the price drops COULD be in reaction to the big Moxi price drop.

Wait... you have a 8300HDC that does NOT run ODN? Somehow I was under the impression ALL the HDCs TWC gave out ran it... the first "'gators" we had were HDCs almost 3 years ago.

HDC's can run SA's own SARA software... most, if not all, TWC SARA systems have had HDCs in their mix of boxes for some time. Only TWC's Passport systems needed to launch ODN to be able to roll out the HDCs.

We changed to Navigator this week and so far...a few concerns.
With SARA, I could hit one button and go to quick settings and access sleep timer (which I use almost everyday), add to favorites, block etc. It was so much faster to reach those items with SARA.

I am still struggling to get the adult titles blocked for adult channels so my nieces and nephew can not see the titles. I have the channels blocked fine but the titles do show in the program guide listing. I have the titles block option turned to on in the setup but they still show. I might need to call TW and get someone to talk me thru it. I have everything turned on to block.

Gail in South Carolina

I understand the new Navigator guide data gives the orginial airdate. Not trying to sound stupid but what do they list as orginial airdate. The year or the actual date it first airs? WOODY

We changed to Navigator this week and so far...a few concerns.
With SARA, I could hit one button and go to quick settings and access sleep timer (which I use almost everyday), add to favorites, block etc. It was so much faster to reach those items with SARA.

I am still struggling to get the adult titles blocked for adult channels so my nieces and nephew can not see the titles. I have the channels blocked fine but the titles do show in the program guide listing. I have the titles block option turned to on in the setup but they still show. I might need to call TW and get someone to talk me thru it. I have everything turned on to block.

Gail in South Carolina

vaguely remember something about having to turn on parental controls and assigning a password

We changed to Navigator this week and so far...a few concerns.
With SARA, I could hit one button and go to quick settings and access sleep timer (which I use almost everyday), add to favorites, block etc. It was so much faster to reach those items with SARA.

I am still struggling to get the adult titles blocked for adult channels so my nieces and nephew can not see the titles. I have the channels blocked fine but the titles do show in the program guide listing. I have the titles block option turned to on in the setup but they still show. I might need to call TW and get someone to talk me thru it. I have everything turned on to block.

Gail in South Carolina

i have same problem with blocking the adult titles out the csr i spoke with talk me through the set up but they still showed up only the adult ondemand would block title, some of those titles arent exactly easy to explain or come up with a good cover up when the kids find them lol

Brave guy! Moxi sure seems to have lots of promise, will be very interested in your experiences (in the Moxi thread I guess).

Did you get the 3 tuner deal?


That I did. It's only using Clear QAM at the moment but being able to record three channels at the same time is a massive benefit over Navigator. Of course I haven't tried it with the tuning adapter and CC yet and the Cisco might prevent the third tuner from working. That would suck. Upgrade the cable services and downgrade the box.

Here's a quick bullet list of Moxi vs Nav. Anything else will go in the Moxi thread.

Moxi advantages:


three tuners. Maybe.
increased storage space and supported external drives.
better graphics with full HD formatting
full show details including cast, producers and genre.
flexibility - Hulu on your TV, connection to media centers etc.
fun time wasters - lots of games, internet browsing, onscreen news, sports, stocks and weather ticker
lot of options for channels and personalization - favorite channel category, network bookmarks etc.
more modern and interesting interface
very good banner browsing
Passport-style mini progress bar with moving timecode.
Commercial skip
2 week guide
Full search - keyword, title and category
Mostly silent hard drive and fan. No continuous chirping.
No A, B and C buttons required.
Multi-room DVR. Finally!


Navigator advantages:


SDV support in the box.
VOD services
Caller ID/StartOver
Better remote. Yes, I'm not kidding. The Moxi remote looks shiny but the arrangement of buttons is idiotic and their functions and names are extremely confusing. The "zoom" button you would think controls the aspect but it toggles between the IPG PIP screen and full screen video. The Moxi button you would think goes to the main menu but it goes to the last used screen or something. So the basic URC remote is actually more straightfoward. I'll be programming my universal remote to avoid using the Moxi.
Navigator interface. Yes, another edge towards Navigator is that one of it's biggest flaws - the extremely basic design - makes it easier to flip through. The Moxi menu is packed with features which makes it both a plus and a minus. It's unique design makes it fun to look at and use but it works in a way that's all it's own. So if you want something very simple and obvious, Navigator has an edge there. Moxi requires the user to learn a new system.
Clock. If you like a clock under your TV or if you want to see the channel on the box, Moxi has no capability for that.
Day advance. I haven't come across it on Moxi yet but when in grid view there is no method to jump a day forward or back. edit: Moxi has an incremental jump of 3 hours that accelerates to a day jump of sorts

15 minute advance. Haven't seen a shortcut to jump 15 minutes through playback yet. Navigator has the "hold FF" option which is cumbersome but it's there. Passport still did the 15 minute jump the best. edit: Moxi does have this.

Power. The Moxi is always on. There's no standby option as TWC boxes have. The remote makes this more confusing by having prominent button labeled "power" which has no effect on the box.
edit: CC is easier to turn on and off with Navigator. Navigator is awkward in that regard but there's no quick access to Moxi CC on or off (and no on with mute either)


There are probably other things I haven't encountered yet but I think that gives you the idea. The weird thing is that some of the features Moxi brings back Passport from 2006 already had. So here we are 4 years later and Navigator is still in a situation where it took more from Passport users than it introduced.

I'd really like to get my hands on OCAP Passport but Moxi will fill the gap for as long as it stays viable. I don't see anything in Navigator's future that will introduce some of the features they took away from Passport users or begin to compete with the directions other IPGs are heading in.

HDC's can run SA's own SARA software... most, if not all, TWC SARA systems have had HDCs in their mix of boxes for some time. Only TWC's Passport systems needed to launch ODN to be able to roll out the HDCs.

Ah, thanks for the correction!

It's only using Clear QAM at the moment but being able to record three channels at the same time is a massive benefit over Navigator. Of course I haven't tried it with the tuning adapter and CC yet and the Cisco might prevent the third tuner from working. That would suck. Upgrade the cable services and downgrade the box.

Interesting bullet points, thanks for taking the time.

I've seen mention that some "cable cards" may allow access to only 2 tuners. IF you have such, it seems VERY interesting that third tuner can then access Clear QAM... meaning it's STILL useful. I think most times when you may want to deal with 3 at the same time, one will most likely be on a Clear QAM channel (i.e. a broadcast network show). Of course, while it may work for live viewing, can you schedule a show to record from a Clear QAM channel?

Interesting bullet points, thanks for taking the time.

I've seen mention that some "cable cards" may allow access to only 2 tuners. IF you have such, it seems VERY interesting that third tuner can then access Clear QAM... meaning it's STILL useful. I think most times when you may want to deal with 3 at the same time, one will most likely be on a Clear QAM channel (i.e. a broadcast network show). Of course, while it may work for live viewing, can you schedule a show to record from a Clear QAM channel?

That's what I will be interested to find out. The issue is the Cisco tuner which doesn't support 3 tuners. If all the channels are being delivered by the tuning adapter then the Moxi might not be able to access clear QAM over the tuning adapter.

I won't find that out for a week or two yet. It's a brave new world. Especially if TWC keep moving the QAM around as they did yesterday. The third tuner doesn't work if there's no signal from the channel. :rolleyes:

I suppose that's another Nav advantage. No worrying about QAM signals bouncing around.

I also think Moxi suffers from an old Navigator/Passport issue too. The Moxi digital audio setting only specifies HDMI or optical out and stereo output only over RCA. So this means that if your TV doesn't accept DD over HDMI ... you have no sound. You can't specify stereo over HDMI. I may be missing something there but that's what it appears to be. You can work around the HDMI issue with additional cable hookups as you could with Nav and Passport (HDMI to TV, optical to receiver etc.) but that really defeats the point of HDMI. So if you have the same problem right now with Navigator, Moxi is going to be the same.

Hey, I'm on TWC (Northeast Ohio) using a 4250HDC. I just set it up recently and it works ok I guess, but the problem is, it isnt running the "Navigator" software, it is running SARA. I am wondering if there is anyway to update to Navigator without swapping my box, I don't know if there would be any sort of OTA firmware update to the cable box, I don't really know how that works. Can anyone shed some light on this? SARA is ok but looks like crap compared to Navigator and on an HD-TV it looks a little too outdated, plus I would like to utilize some of the new features that Navigator has. Any suggestions? No way to flash software or anything?

You have no control over Navigator upgrades or TWC software in general.

TWC deploy the software area by area based on their own criteria. You won't find out until you get an official notification about a Navigator rollout in your area.



Hey, I'm on TWC (Northeast Ohio) using a 4250HDC. I just set it up recently and it works ok I guess, but the problem is, it isnt running the "Navigator" software, it is running SARA. I am wondering if there is anyway to update to Navigator without swapping my box, I don't know if there would be any sort of OTA firmware update to the cable box, I don't really know how that works. Can anyone shed some light on this? SARA is ok but looks like crap compared to Navigator and on an HD-TV it looks a little too outdated, plus I would like to utilize some of the new features that Navigator has. Any suggestions? No way to flash software or anything?

Keep your SARA as long as you can! N is horrible! The tech guy that was just here said it would be a long time -- weeks or more -- before they get all the bug out. I told him to fix my SARA DVR and not swap to a N box. I am haivng enough problems with N on my non DVR box, volume issues -- like volume does not work

I told him to fix my SARA DVR and not swap to a N box.

Let us know how that works out for you.

I understand the new Navigator guide data gives the orginial airdate. Not trying to sound stupid but what do they list as orginial airdate. The year or the actual date it first airs? WOODY

Actual date of first airing.

Actual date of first airing.

The reason I am confused is because the Navigator I have at my beach house had those louzy 2 line bits of information. The Navigator I just received in Greensboro has a lot more info. It gives the actors names a full synopsis of the story and then says the year. New NCIS for example say 2009 however the ones running on USA give the year they were first aired in such as 2005 but neither give an exact air date. The movies now give the actors, Director, Producer and I have seen a couple that even give the screen writer Wonder if this is the new show discriptions. But both give the year but not orginonall air date. But a heck of a lot more information is given than the old version MDN of Navigator I have at the coast and even a lot more than SARA used to give. What does everyone else have discription wise? WOODY.

Mine appears to be the same as yours Woody with just the year and description of series. Much better than SARA.

The reason I am confused is because the Navigator I have at my beach house had those lousy 2 line bits of information. The Navigator I just received in Greensboro has a lot more info. It gives the actors names a full synopsis of the story and then says the year. New NCIS for example say 2009 however the ones running on USA give the year they were first aired in such as 2005 but neither give an exact air date. The movies now give the actors, Director, Producer and I have seen a couple that even give the screen writer Wonder if this is the new show descriptions. But both give the year but not original air date. But a heck of a lot more information is given than the old version MDN of Navigator I have at the coast and even a lot more than SARA used to give. What does everyone else have description wise? WOODY.

Woody,

Do you have ODN in Greensboro? Or maybe a new version of MDN is out there that gives more descriptive program information? My MDN version 2.4.6-19 for movies will give about a paragraph of information, often with parenthesis around two (sometimes three) actors in a movie. All movies have the year of release, the same with all series. Unless there is guide data being updated or not available from the server, than you just get a generic description of the series. I don't remember seeing this in early versions of Navigator. But it is still not as good as what you have in Greensboro.

In San Diego they have more detailed program information as well. Usually 2-3 pages of information for movies. I am not sure about series. Only PPV movies give the most complete program information, but sometimes if the information is something like page 1/3, page 3 which is supposed to be the last part of the description will get cut off. I hope we get more complete program descriptions in MDN Navigator 2.5, which is in Beta now, and especially 3.0, which I think could have the data similar to Greensboro and San Diego in addition to some new search features. Let's hope!

Jack

Woody,

Do you have ODN in Greensboro? Or maybe a new version of MDN is out there that gives more descriptive program information? My MDN version 2.4.6-19 for movies will give about a paragraph of information, often with parenthesis around two (sometimes three) actors in a movie. All movies have the year of release, the same with all series. Unless there is guide data being updated or not available from the server, than you just get a generic description of the series. I don't remember seeing this in early versions of Navigator. But it is still not as good as what you have in Greensboro.

In San Diego they have more detailed program information as well. Usually 2-3 pages of information for movies. I am not sure about series. Only PPV movies give the most complete program information, but sometimes if the information is something like page 1/3, page 3 which is supposed to be the last part of the description will get cut off. I hope we get more complete program descriptions in MDN Navigator 2.5, which is in Beta now, and especially 3.0, which I think could have the data similar to Greensboro and San Diego in addition to some new search features. Let's hope!

Jack

No I have 313.2 ODN. No this data is showing up on movies from Showtime. HBO, AMC, TMC As well as PFV movies.. It gives one to two pages of imformation on movies and detailed information on series, However on both it gives the year but not the originial airdate.Maybe I am seeing things afer haveing the dismal SARA for so long. But I swear I know Navigator at the coast never had this type of info. It's been a few weeks since I was down there but I do have MDN at the coast not sure of the version. WOODY

I too have ODN v3.1.3_2.

Still zero Navigator news in our market and Moxi just released a 3 tuner model, plus Tivo just instituted a price drop which may be hints of upcoming models. I have the feeling that I will be on a third party DVR by the time we ever see Navigator in our division

...Moxi just released a 4 tuner model...Slight correction--Moxi just released a 3 tuner model.

Correct, my typo. Fixed it.

For those interested: Click Here (http://moxi.com/us/home.html)

We're ODN 3.1.3_2 here as well... I would say that 85% of all TV shows (not theatrical movies) have the Original Air Date info, in the format:
Original Air Date: MM/DD/YYYY

In San Diego we too use MM/DD/YYYY!

The 3260 and 3270 boxes have HDMI v1.3.

Actual date of first airing.

Speaking of which, I'vbe seen none of any of the "new guide data" that is being talked about. BUT while we lost a number of things we used to get (actors/directors), episodic TV seems to have actually gained a year spec. So I see an episode of Cold Case on TNT and it says 2006.

HOWEVER, that ONLY appears if you are looking at the grid. If you do any kind of search, genre listing etc. you can see a long list of said series... BUT it omits the year information.

I think TWC damn well better get busy... with the new Moxi pricing and TiVo response, both are financially more attractive then they had been.

Slight correction--Moxi just released a 3 tuner model.

That for now must be bought as a bundle with a second box (Moxi Mate) for multi-room playback only... with a promised future software update to let it access the live tuners.

I've also read there MAY be issues with how many tuners a cable card can access, I've seen posts that say some can and others are restricted to 2 tuners only.

Speaking of which, I'vbe seen none of any of the "new guide data" that is being talked about. BUT while we lost a number of things we used to get (actors/directors), episodic TV seems to have actually gained a year spec. So I see an episode of Cold Case on TNT and it says 2006.

HOWEVER, that ONLY appears if you are looking at the grid. If you do any kind of search, genre listing etc. you can see a long list of said series... BUT it omits the year information.

I think TWC damn well better get busy... with the new Moxi pricing and TiVo response, both are financially more attractive then they had been.
This is strange. On some of my data I get actors, directors, producers and sometime even the screenwriter but not a orgional airdate. Mostly get get the year episode or movie was made. This is strange. WOODY

I think TWC damn well better get busy... with the new Moxi pricing and TiVo response, both are financially more attractive then they had been.

I don't think they care. Navigator is basic stuff for basic people. The majority of people who own a DVR don't care about multi-room support, external capacity or who starred in what and when. Most of them wouldn't even care if a show was HD or stretched to oblivion.

The only people they have to be concerned about are folks like us and we are a small sample. There's no incentive to update the software unless it breaks severely enough to cause regular folks to complain or someone brings out a box that's about $200 with SDV support and lots of marketing in Best Buy.

TWC will follow the same mantra as they always do - "just enough to make us look good at a shareholder meeting."

I've also read there MAY be issues with how many tuners a cable card can access, I've seen posts that say some can and others are restricted to 2 tuners only.I've read that Cisco Tuning Adapters can only deal with 2 tuners, while Motorola ones can deal with more (at least 3, probably the full 6 tuners that M-Cards are capable of dealing with). Unfortunately TWC primarily uses Cisco networks, requiring Cisco CableCARDs and Cisco TAs.

As an engineer, I can't imagine any physical limitations which create this limit, so perhaps Cisco will update their TA firmware to handle more tuners.

I don't think they care. Navigator is basic stuff for basic people. The majority of people who own a DVR don't care about multi-room support, external capacity or who starred in what and when. Most of them wouldn't even care if a show was HD or stretched to oblivion.

The only people they have to be concerned about are folks like us and we are a small sample. There's no incentive to update the software unless it breaks severely enough to cause regular folks to complain or someone brings out a box that's about $200 with SDV support and lots of marketing in Best Buy.

TWC will follow the same mantra as they always do - "just enough to make us look good at a shareholder meeting."

I think the majority of people DO CARE about the frustrating experience of having to open up 30 listings of College Football to get to the game they want, and even that may not show up. That keyword search better be available no later than first quarter 2010. It is good that better search features are coming, but that should be a basic and critical update that should be first priority.

Honestly, I can even live without manual recording, multi-room DVR, remote control management, if Keyword Search is added and it is good, I would be happy.

Questions:

1.) Who's idea was it to remove Keyword Search in the first place?

2.) Have TWC techs and the powers that be ever seen a real 2010 type guide like Tivo? or even the current version of Passport? How can they defend Navigator when viewing more advanced guides?

3.) Do you think that when Keyword Search comes, it will be great? good? average? or suck?

Jack

I think the majority of people DO CARE about the frustrating experience of having to open up 30 listings of College Football to get to the game they want, and even that may not show up.

No I don't think they do. Navigator is almost 5 years old now and apart from the Lincoln Nebraska incident you rarely hear about people defecting because of the Navigator DVR features or mass complaints about the lack of functionality. If the public had done that the software would already have changed in response during the five years TWC had to work on it. As shown SARA users had archaic software to deal with so going to Navigator looks shiny and cool by comparison.

If you never had anything better or are not aware of how other services are advancing then there is nothing to compare it to negatively.

No I don't think they do. Navigator is almost 5 years old now and apart from the Lincoln Nebraska incident you rarely hear about people defecting because of the Navigator DVR features or mass complaints about the lack of functionality. If the public had done that the software would already have changed in response during the five years TWC had to work on it. As shown SARA users had archaic software to deal with so going to Navigator looks shiny and cool by comparison.

If you never had anything better or are not aware of how other services are advancing then there is nothing to compare it to negatively.

A great point,

It depends on the perspective of what software/system you are coming from. People were upset if they came from Passport over the loss of some features and functions. But the former SARA users generally speaking had something much better in Navigator.

Jack

1.) Who's idea was it to remove Keyword Search in the first place?Heavy sigh. They didn't remove anything. They didn't start with SARA or Passport and reshape it into Navigator, adding and removing features. It's like trading your old car in which had power windows for one that doesn't and asking, "Why did they remove power windows???" Digital Navigator never had Keyword Search for them to remove.

A more sensible set of questions is, "Why didn't they include Keyword Search in Navigator? Didn't the people who designed Navigator see it in other IPGs? Did they not think that it was a good idea, or did they simply not think that it was important?"

Heavy sigh. They didn't remove anything. They didn't start with SARA or Passport and reshape it into Navigator, adding and removing features. It's like trading your old car in which had power windows for one that doesn't and asking, "Why did they remove power windows???" Digital Navigator never had Keyword Search for them to remove.

A more sensible set of questions is, "Why didn't they include Keyword Search in Navigator? Didn't the people who designed Navigator see it in other IPGs? Did they not think that it was a good idea, or did they simply not think that it was important?"

I had keyword search in Passport and it was sweet. However that was at our coastal cabin. I did use it on a daily basis while on vacation. At our main home in Greensboro we had the dreary SARA that for the most part was a vcr on steriods with very few features. Most sara users have never had keyword search so Navigator keyboard search is heaven sent to them. For those of us who have had Passport with keyword search the loss of it is a bummer. As well as the loss of the copy tp dvd burner (or vcr) as SARA called it. That loss is also a bummer. However for the most part of SARA users its hard to miss what you never had. Thats why most of the SARA user complaints are about the loss of the copy to dvd burner option. You tend to miss what you have had and lost not what you never had. WOODY

This is strange. On some of my data I get actors, directors, producers and sometime even the screenwriter but not a orgional airdate. Mostly get get the year episode or movie was made. This is strange. WOODY

From what I read around here, there seems to be a rollout of better guide data, but selectively by area.

Up until last December, this HUGE market I live oin had just a terrible allotment of HD, we ranked down at the bottom of even mid-sized cities. Boom, we jumped with 60 some odd new ones... but even then, half the island I live on had to wait another 4 months!

So it figures I'd have to wait until everyone else gets it before I get it! BUT, what I probably will never get is what I want... i.e. series/episode codes (S02E04).

I don't think they care. Navigator is basic stuff for basic people. The majority of people who own a DVR don't care about multi-room support, external capacity or who starred in what and when. Most of them wouldn't even care if a show was HD or stretched to oblivion.

The only people they have to be concerned about are folks like us and we are a small sample. There's no incentive to update the software unless it breaks severely enough to cause regular folks to complain or someone brings out a box that's about $200 with SDV support and lots of marketing in Best Buy.

TWC will follow the same mantra as they always do - "just enough to make us look good at a shareholder meeting."

You are most likely correct, but that doesn't change the fact that I am paying more for less... than what I USED to get for the money I pay them.

$$$ is VERY thin, so it isn't easy to jump on a third party, no matter how much I try to justify it. NEVERTHELESS, this going backwards kind of software thinking sure seem to me to be a recipe to jump ship altogether. And THAT is all about having some form of actual choice... but while Verizon HAS a franchise, they sure seem to be totally stalled in rollout, so it could be YEARS before I even have it as an option.

I've read that Cisco Tuning Adapters can only deal with 2 tuners, while Motorola ones can deal with more (at least 3, probably the full 6 tuners that M-Cards are capable of dealing with). Unfortunately TWC primarily uses Cisco networks, requiring Cisco CableCARDs and Cisco TAs.

As an engineer, I can't imagine any physical limitations which create this limit, so perhaps Cisco will update their TA firmware to handle more tuners.

Oh, it's the tuning adapters, not the cable cards?

TA's allow reception of SDV right? BUT, does that also mean that non SDV channels also get knocked out to a third tuner?

FWIW, we SEEM to have the infrastructure for SDV now, but it isn't being used. I THINK we may still have some more bandwidth available and not THAT many HD channels we don't already get.

Heavy sigh. They didn't remove anything. They didn't start with SARA or Passport and reshape it into Navigator, adding and removing features. It's like trading your old car in which had power windows for one that doesn't and asking, "Why did they remove power windows???" Digital Navigator never had Keyword Search for them to remove.

A more sensible set of questions is, "Why didn't they include Keyword Search in Navigator? Didn't the people who designed Navigator see it in other IPGs? Did they not think that it was a good idea, or did they simply not think that it was important?"

Bad analogy... we didn't go out and buy a new car accepting the fact it didn't have some things our old car did. We had perfectly functioning software that allowed such things... through NO CHOICE we got changed to stuff that doesn't. Functionality removed. Sorry, we think like customers...

I agree ben time warner has forced you and i to this action of a third party dvr ...Will be ordering a series 3 this week around midweek bye bye sara on one of my tv's...:cool:

TWC NYC 8300HD here in Manhattan. Currently using Seagate 7200.10 500GB eSATA with Enermax Jazz enclosure. While it was recognized instantly by my Mystro 8300HD, there are frequent stuttering and dropped frames.

I'm thinking about using the same enclosure but getting the DVR specific Seagate DB35.3 750GB drive (eSATA as well).

May I ask if there's anyone out there with experience with the DB35.3 Seagate?

In theory, the DB35 series from Seagate should be a perfect match for this purpose, while my current 7200.10 is really a data drive.

Thanks in advance.

Bad analogy... we didn't go out and buy a new car accepting the fact it didn't have some things our old car did. We had perfectly functioning software that allowed such things... through NO CHOICE we got changed to stuff that doesn't. Functionality removed. Sorry, we think like customers...Let's modify the analogy then, since yours is wrong, too. You didn't buy anything--you're leasing it and your lessor decided to replace what you had with something else with different features because they decided that they had a business need to do that and they had the option. Your position as a TWC customer leasing a box is to accept what they give you or get something else, because you can't dictate the capabilities of their leased equipment. If you want a particular set of features, go out, shop and buy something different. Of course, you always have the option to come here and complain to people who can sympathize, but it won't change anything.

As a software engineer, it irks the hell out of me to say that a new piece of software, written and designed by completely different people, "removes" features that you had in another piece of software. The new piece of software never had it, so it couldn't be "removed". If they'd left you with Passport but had it modified to take out out keyword search, that would be removing something; if they pushed a new revision of Navigator which omitted all program descriptions, that would be removing something. I sincerely doubt that they listed the capabilities of the IPGs that they were replacing with Navigator and made a conscious decision as to which of their features to incoporate and which to leave out.

It's taken them long enough to get the set of features which they started out with to work reasonably well. Keyword search is a complex operation. Unless they planned to add it from the beginning and structured the guide data to accomodate it (and even if they did and got it seriously wrong), adding it will change a fundamental element of the code and you can expect that to add a host of new bugs in other functions. Be careful what you wish for :).

As a software engineer, it irks the hell out of me to say that a new piece of software, written and designed by completely different people, "removes" features that you had in another piece of software. The new piece of software never had it, so it couldn't be "removed". If they'd left you with Passport but had it modified to take out out keyword search, that would be removing something; if they pushed a new revision of Navigator which omitted all program descriptions, that would be removing something.

Or for another example, let's say, in theory, if a previous version of Navigator had a channel grouping feature - let's call it "Sort by Favorites" - and TWC gave you a new version of Navigator which didn't have a "sort by favorites" feature, that would be removing something.

;)

Did Passport have the kind of bugs when they started out that Navigator had when it started out?

Jack

Did Passport have the kind of bugs when they started out that Navigator had when it started out?

Not that I remember. The main problem I recall is the HDMI/AUX issue which wasn't around on anyway on early boxes.

Most of the major problems came with the 8000 hardware but the versions of Passport I used since 2002-ish had little issues and started with category and keyboard search. If anything regular Passport hasn't changed enough since it's debut to show signs of advancement. Most of the features Navigator has Passport did many many years ago.

Did Passport have the kind of bugs when they started out that Navigator had when it started out?

JackIt most certainly did. For some reason, TWC San Diego pushed something like four revisions in half a year. Some of them were nearly unusably bad.

Every piece of complex software is likely to have bugs in it on release. I was once the software engineering department's liason to a bug review board. We'd spent four hours (sometimes all day) going through a stack of bug reports several hundred pages long, prioritizing them for fixing and assigning them to various engineers. There were "show stopping" bugs which absolutely needed to be fixed before we could ship and at least four other grades. The lowest priority problems were unlikely to ever be repaired, and the product would probably ship with 50 or more of these in it.

Some of these IPG releases are so buggy that it's hard to believe that anyone even bothered to do internal black box testing of it at all ("black box testing" is in-house testing by non-engineers who have no knowledge of the internal workings of the product and are performing the tests according to what they can learn from the user documentation). Any normal person sitting down and trying to use the core functions of the product should have run into these bugs, which should have been show-stopping.

Imagine that you'd bought a product with bugs as severe as those in Navigator even a year ago. You'd probably take the product back and buy something else. The only way they can get away with this is that their customers don't have a lot of choice. Their only options are to buy something like TiVo or Moxi, costing several hundred dollars, or mount an attractive satellite dish on their home, which not nearly everyone has the option to do. Given those options, most people will just grin and bear it.

Or for another example, let's say, in theory, if a previous version of Navigator had a channel grouping feature - let's call it "Sort by Favorites" - and TWC gave you a new version of Navigator which didn't have a "sort by favorites" feature, that would be removing something.

;)I take it that they did that? I must not have been paying very close attention to the conversation here :D.

I take it that they did that? I must not have been paying very close attention to the conversation here :D.

Not for everyone, but TWC Raleigh joined the unlucky group a few weeks back.

That was the up/downgrade that pushed me to Moxi.

I take it that they did that? I must not have been paying very close attention to the conversation here :D.

I think MDN users lost that but it;s still very much available to ODN screens. I say to the MDN folk who lost it to upgrade to a newer ODN box. WOODY

I think MDN users lost that but it;s still very much available to ODN screens. I say to the MDN folk who lost it to upgrade to a newer ODN box. WOODY

Sure,

But with the understanding that they may lose that feature in a software update. Does ODN still take you to the Favorite Channels you create when the guide is showing? While Sort By Favorites went away beginning with MDN 2.4.6-19, a feature was added that allows you to select your Favorite channels in the guide by pressing the FAV button. (Seeing them numerically in the grid when the grid was showing.) The older MDN versions would tune to a Favorite channel regardless of whether or not the guide was showing.

Jack

But to be fair the dreary but stable SARA guide was anything but that when it first came out I remember years ago when I got my SA 8000 with sara there were constant reboots with SARA. The picture would freeze and you had to reboot. Sound was terrible. I did not even have a first run option. It was a nightmare. Then the 8300 boxes came out and they added a few features such as first run and copy to vcr/dvr burner and the reboots became fewer over time until we got this stable but dreary sara. My point is SARA, PASSPORT, Navigator and now Comcast TIVO all experience birthing pains that take a few years to work out. Should this be the case. NO. But it is the way most IPG's are born. NAVIGATOR has come a long way and will continue to evolve. You can either find a older more advanced IPG. Their are a few choices such as TIVO or complain and sit down and enjoy or not the ride. WOODY.

Sure,

But with the understanding that they may lose that feature in a software update. Does ODN still take you to the Favorite Channels you create when the guide is showing? While Sort By Favorites went away beginning with MDN 2.4.6-19, a feature was added that allows you to select your Favorite channels in the guide by pressing the FAV button. (Seeing them numerically in the grid when the grid was showing.) The older MDN versions would tune to a Favorite channel regardless of whether or not the guide was showing.

Jack

It does. WOODY

I think the majority of people DO CARE about the frustrating experience of having to open up 30 listings of College Football to get to the game they want, and even that may not show up. That keyword search better be available no later than first quarter 2010. It is good that better search features are coming, but that should be a basic and critical update that should be first priority.

Honestly, I can even live without manual recording, multi-room DVR, remote control management, if Keyword Search is added and it is good, I would be happy.

Questions:

1.) Who's idea was it to remove Keyword Search in the first place?

2.) Have TWC techs and the powers that be ever seen a real 2010 type guide like Tivo? or even the current version of Passport? How can they defend Navigator when viewing more advanced guides?

3.) Do you think that when Keyword Search comes, it will be great? good? average? or suck?

Jack

Just to show you how different people can be, Jack, I couldn't care less about keyword search. In the old days, when I had it, I used it maybe once a month (maybe once a quarter), and I rarely miss it. I have a Tivo in my home office, and I guess that means I have keyword search there, but I've never used it at all. It's a nice thing to have, but there are many features that I would prioritize ahead of keyword search for my personal needs.

Different types of users have different needs. It's probably a mistake to reason that a majority of users agree with you. I'd bet that a significant majority of DVR users just want the guide to replace the one that appears in the Sunday paper.

Users on this board are a different story: far more demanding, although (using me as an example) even all of us don't "demand" keyword search.

-barry

I think MDN users lost that but it;s still very much available to ODN screens. I say to the MDN folk who lost it to upgrade to a newer ODN box. WOODY

Sure. Do you choose:

a) stop recording everything until the drive is empty.
b) pay rental on two boxes until the drive is empty.
c) voluntarily lose all the recordings you haven't watched yet.

a feature was added that allows you to select your Favorite channels in the guide by pressing the FAV button. (Seeing them numerically in the grid when the grid was showing.)

which was a feature that Passport always had.

Sure. Do you choose:

a) stop recording everything until the drive is empty.
b) pay rental on two boxes until the drive is empty.
c) voluntarily lose all the recordings you haven't watched yet.

I mean upgrade when it is convent to you the user not on any timeframe that I have not put forward. It was just a quickly written suggestion to solve what some see as a problem. WOODY

Even ODN can lose features. I used to be able to add storage with an external drive. To me, this is a biggie.

This is my opinion and that and a dollar might get you a cup of coffee. When all is said and done I feel the IPG'S that will still be standing are TIVO , PASSPORT, NAVIGATOR and prehaps MOXI I feel SARA stick a fork in it is done. I Guide is on it's last legs being replaced in lot of areas by PASSPORT, REPLAY is all but gone. So I feel the 4 I spoke of are the one's that will still be standing as far as DVR boxes go.Just my opinion as I state but might stir up a little debate on a rainy (here) Sunday afternoon. CHEERS - WOODY

Interestingly enough one person got a 1TB MyDVR expander to work on a 8300HDC.

I mean upgrade when it is convent to you the user not on any timeframe that I have not put forward. It was just a quickly written suggestion to solve what some see as a problem. WOODY

And upgrading any box on TWC has always had the same problems. There is rarely a time that a DVR user will not have a drive full of programming unless you wait until Summer and even that's not as barren as it used to be.

Then you have to deal with not knowing what box you will get as a replacement. Some areas let you specify but others are just a random pick. When I got the 8300 I had to justify asking for it! They wouldn't install it on an SD TV and they would only do it if it was connected by HDMI - which was the reason I asked for a different box.

I didn't mention it was also because the 8000 was a piece of crap.

Combine that with (as mentioned above) the future efforts of the TW programming team stumbling along and even ODN can lose what you just had. It still amazes me the amateurish efforts being made with Navigator. With this latest release I noticed they added the title of the sub-menu below each main section title. eg:

SETTINGS
Quick Settings

Which would seem like a good idea until you notice that when you go to a section with more characters, it just runs out of space and they never adjusted it. So you get things like:

SHOW LIST
Scheduled Rec ...

I have absolutely no faith in the proficiency of TW's Nav team to improve what they have sufficiently or not to break it in a future release. They've had five years of working on it. Navigator should be feature-rich and and the bad UI decisions should have been fixed.

I just have to say that this is THE BEST and most civilized forum for Navigator discussion and compare/contrast of different IPG experiences! It is very interesting to see how the diverse needs of people can justify what they like or don't like in an IPG.

I have had such a range of discussions from people who have everything and anything technology wise to people who are still using just OTA, because there still are people out there who don't want to have to pay to watch TV or even have the time to watch much TV.

IPG guide systems and features are almost becoming as unique as the people who use them! I don't know of another forum that has such interesting discussion, debate, and information! Thanks to everyone!!!!

Jack

Sorry to repeat myself, but i would be grateful to hear the advice/opinions/comments of the good folks here regarding the eSATA hard drive possibility. My apologies in advance for repeating myself.

TWC NYC 8300HD here in Manhattan. Currently using Seagate 7200.10 500GB eSATA with Enermax Jazz enclosure. While it was recognized instantly by my Mystro 8300HD, there are frequent stuttering and dropped frames.

I'm thinking about using the same enclosure but getting the DVR specific Seagate DB35.3 750GB drive (eSATA as well).

May I ask if there's anyone out there with experience with the DB35.3 Seagate?

In theory, the DB35 series from Seagate should be a perfect match for this purpose, while my current 7200.10 is really a data drive.

Thanks in advance.

TWC NYC 8300HD here in Manhattan. Currently using Seagate 7200.10 500GB eSATA with Enermax Jazz enclosure. While it was recognized instantly by my Mystro 8300HD, there are frequent stuttering and dropped frames.You'd probably be better off asking your question here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=516559). There's also links in the thread to a database of user experiences with various devices. It's a long thread but the last few pages may be enough to help you.

I saw an option today that I had not seen earlier - see if this restores your sort by favorites -
Settings then scroll to the right to the option for Favorite Channels - (2 options - set up favorites and sort by favorites). The sort by favorites gives you 2 options - sort by all channels or favorites first.

Gail in SC


and guess what ...

despite my previous post there is something to report. I don't have "sort by favorites" now either.

The one $%@$#%^@ thing that I actually thought was better than Passport 2006 and the idiots remove it.

Interestingly enough one person got a 1TB MyDVR expander to work on a 8300HDC.
Could you elaborate on that a bit...or perhaps give a pointer to where I might locate the steps this individual took?

My 8300HDC worked just fine with my 1TB MyDVR expander until a few days ago when TWC rolled out Navigator to my area. I've spent quite a bit of time searching for a way I might be able to pair the two again, but I haven't had much luck. Any pointers anyone can provide would be appreciated.

However, even if I do get it working again I'm not sure that it will be enough to keep me from jumping ship to some other alternative. I'm still in shock at how poor Navigator's interface is. I understand the business decision to want to move to a system that enhances the revenue generating opportunities offered by true2way. But the apparent unwillingness by TWC after all this time to allocate the resources necessary to make meaningful improvements to the interface in order to enhance (rather than degrade) the end user's experience shows an arrogant disregard for their customers.

In truly competitive industries such behavior isn't tolerated by consumers. Think of all the various devices consmers use today that are accessed through some sort of visual interface. If firms don't innovate and improve upon this aspect of their product, customers move on. Smart firms realize that a device's interface isn't just a mechanism for operating a device. Some actually "get" the fact that it is also the interface for the relationship between them and their customers.

I saw an option today that I had not seen earlier - see if this restores your sort by favorites -
Settings then scroll to the right to the option for Favorite Channels - (2 options - set up favorites and sort by favorites). The sort by favorites gives you 2 options - sort by all channels or favorites first.

Gail in SC

Maybe that's a change for MDN, but that is always how Sort by Favorites has been activated in ODN.

Thanks for the clarification. I am still learning Navigator.

Maybe that's a change for MDN, but that is always how Sort by Favorites has been activated in ODN.

Could you elaborate on that a bit...or perhaps give a pointer to where I might locate the steps this individual took?

My 8300HDC worked just fine with my 1TB MyDVR expander until a few days ago when TWC rolled out Navigator to my area. I've spent quite a bit of time searching for a way I might be able to pair the two again, but I haven't had much luck. Any pointers anyone can provide would be appreciated.

However, even if I do get it working again I'm not sure that it will be enough to keep me from jumping ship to some other alternative. I'm still in shock at how poor Navigator's interface is. I understand the business decision to want to move to a system that enhances the revenue generating opportunities offered by true2way. But the apparent unwillingness by TWC after all this time to allocate the resources necessary to make meaningful improvements to the interface in order to enhance (rather than degrade) the end user's experience shows an arrogant disregard for their customers.

In truly competitive industries such behavior isn't tolerated by consumers. Think of all the various devices consumers use today that are accessed through some sort of visual interface. If firms don't innovate and improve upon this aspect of their product, customers move on. Smart firms realize that a device's interface isn't just a mechanism for operating a device. Some actually "get" the fact that it is also the interface for the relationship between them and their customers.

Great points Shutterman! Nothing really to add. The only thing that I can say from my division's experience is that Navigator works OK from the horror that those early releases were three years ago. But the IPG in no way is even close to 2010 and beyond technology.

For people coming from SARA, I have heard that particular interface had the appearance of a POS, but that it was reliable. Passport was the guide that I liked best. Actually, when Navigator gets Keyword Search, or at least better search options to filter results, I will be happy.

Going through 30 College Football listings to find the game that's on and than having to open each TITLE, may be OK for year 2000 technology, but not 2010. I despise having to do that with Navigator. I also hate having to Select a title and it says, "No upcoming shows are available for this title." When the show is not available, it should be off the system.

However, searches are OK when you know the title of what you are looking for. The tiered listing formats show that they work good for finding things like movies. But Navigator users should be able to look for Teams and Games for Sports Categories. Listing 15 instances of the Title MLB Baseball does not quickly tell me what team is playing and a quick reference to the time the game is on. But for Movies, title searches are much better.

I do like the DVR percent used indicator. Never used the Series Manager. Most people either love it or hate it without a lot of intermediate feelings.

The Sports Now category has been showing truncated results on my box for several months. However, reliability has been very good in all other areas. Since our line got replaced with the proper signal strength levels, my box only reboots about once to twice a month. Before that it could be about three times a week. I also have had no missed recordings for AT LEAST a year!

LOVE the On-Demand Menu Screens! The biggest Navigator problem that needs to be addressed is better searching for multiple instances of sports categories.

It's just too bad that Navigator does not offer more options for power users.

Jack

I saw an option today that I had not seen earlier - see if this restores your sort by favorites -
Settings then scroll to the right to the option for Favorite Channels - (2 options - set up favorites and sort by favorites). The sort by favorites gives you 2 options - sort by all channels or favorites first.

Gail in SC

I saw exactly that when I was forced into MDN... but at some point, the option to "sort" disappeared, "Favorite Channels" ONLY has one option... set up favorites).

I tried it, but didn't really like it. The "favorites" simply got moved to the top of the long list... meaning they did NOT appear numerical order. If I HAD the option, I wouldn't use it... but some other folks may very well.

My 8300HDC worked just fine with my 1TB MyDVR expander until a few days ago when TWC rolled out Navigator to my area. I've spent quite a bit of time searching for a way I might be able to pair the two again, but I haven't had much luck. Any pointers anyone can provide would be appreciated.

While I've read a few claims an external HDD does work with a HDC/ODN box, most everyone who has tried it has failed. The general consensus is ODN 2.x/HDC did work, but ODN 3.x on a HDC does not.

Sort by Favorites

Another great and very useful feature trashed by the clowns at TWC>>>IDIOTS!

HH

I saw exactly that when I was forced into MDN... but at some point, the option to "sort" disappeared, "Favorite Channels" ONLY has one option... set up favorites).

I tried it, but didn't really like it. The "favorites" simply got moved to the top of the long list... meaning they did NOT appear numerical order. If I HAD the option, I wouldn't use it... but some other folks may very well.

Are you saying that when Sort by Favorites DID function in MDN, that the favorites were in some random order rather than sorted in numerical order?

The favorites section of the guide in ODN is definitely sorted in numerical order (with the non-favorites omitted, obviously). For a simple example, lets say we have a 10 channel lineup, channels 201-210, and channels 201, 203, 205, 207 & 209 are designated as favorites. With "Sort by Favorites" activated in ODN, the guide listing would look like this:

...
219
220 (wraps from end of full listings)
201 (first favorite)
203
205
207
209 (last favorite)
201 (wraps to beginning of full listings)
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210 (end of full listing)
201 (wraps to beginning of favorite listings)
203
...
If you are watching a favorite channel and hit GUIDE, it will jump to that channel within the favorites section. If you are watching a non-favorite channel and hit GUIDE, it will jump to that channel within the full listings, but you can quickly jump to the favorites section by hitting the FAV button while viewing the GUIDE. The two sections of the guide wrap around in an endless loop, so you can move forwards or backwards between them if needed. You can also direct access a channel number when in the guide and jump to that channels listing.

Personally, I have my favorites set up with exclusively HD channels and use it as an HD guide. Since all I ever watch is HD channels, when I hit GUIDE it always dumps me into my HD favorites section (sorted numerically!), so all I ever see in the Guide are my ~60 favorite HD listings - but the full listings are readily available for those extremely rare times I want to see them.

jcalabria - this is EXACTLY how I used the Sort By Favorites feature. Imperfect, but workable. Now, not so much.

Man, I wish we could "customize" out all of the useless channels in the Guide.

Series Recording Question,

Suppose that you want to record a series that is NOT listed as New in the guide and has never been listed as New in the guide, (Like an old syndicated show from the 70's.) Does Navigator have to specifically see the word NEW in a series in order to treat the recordings of episodes as new?

Is Navigator smart enough to look at first run episode descriptions for series that are not described as New to know episodes should be skipped if they are repeated?

Jack

Series Recording Question,

Suppose that you want to record a series that is NOT listed as New in the guide and has never been listed as New in the guide, (Like an old syndicated show from the 70's.) Does Navigator have to specifically see the word NEW in a series in order to treat the recordings of episodes as new?

Is Navigator smart enough to look at first run episode descriptions for series that are not described as New to know episodes should be skipped if they are repeated?

Jack

Old series never have their episodes listed as new. It will keep recording episodes unless you delete them from the scheduled recordings page. I keep getting episodes of "Lost" from late at night that I have to delete to stop them from recording.

Series Recording Question,

Suppose that you want to record a series that is NOT listed as New in the guide and has never been listed as New in the guide, (Like an old syndicated show from the 70's.) Does Navigator have to specifically see the word NEW in a series in order to treat the recordings of episodes as new?

Is Navigator smart enough to look at first run episode descriptions for series that are not described as New to know episodes should be skipped if they are repeated?

Jack

If an episode is repeated on the same channel within the window of the record log, it should not record the same episode a second time once it is successfully recorded.

So... for instance:

Suppose you have Series Manager set to record "All Showings"/"New+Repeats" of Bones on TNT, which is all syndicated repeats - no "New" episodes. Tomorrow, an episode is shown at 1pm and is repeated at 7pm. The same episode is also shown again this Friday, and also in three weeks. Navigator will record the 1pm showing tomorrow, but will skip the 7pm and Friday repeats. However, it WILL record that same episode again when it repeats in three weeks because the recording log entry for the original recording would have dropped by then.

jcalabria - this is EXACTLY how I used the Sort By Favorites feature. Imperfect, but workable. Now, not so much.

Man, I wish we could "customize" out all of the useless channels in the Guide.

I take it you have an MDN box and lost the Sort by Favorite feature... if you don't use eSATA you could swap to an ODN box (SA HDC series, or a Samsung). The feature is still alive and well on ODN.

Of course, as VisionOn pointed out, if you have a large backlog of shows on your drive this could be inconvenient, as well.

If an episode is repeated on the same channel within the window of the record log, it should not record the same episode a second time once it is successfully recorded.

So... for instance:

Suppose you have Series Manager set to record "All Showings"/"New+Repeats" of Bones on TNT, which is all syndicated repeats - no "New" episodes. Tomorrow, an episode is shown at 1pm and is repeated at 7pm. The same episode is also shown again this Friday, and also in three weeks. Navigator will record the 1pm showing tomorrow, but will skip the 7pm and Friday repeats. However, it WILL record that same episode again when it repeats in three weeks because the recording log entry for the original recording would have dropped by then.

Great explanation!

So that means that once the 14 day programing log is dumped on Day 15, the recording parameters that users have set up for series start fresh again. This gives a nice new meaning to the Recording Log for more than just a conflict screen when something doesn't record.

On MDN, what is the Episodes to Keep Option range? I heard it was 3-7 or ALL?

Jack

Great explanation!

So that means that once the 14 day programing log is dumped on Day 15, the recording parameters that users have set up for series start fresh again. This gives a nice new meaning to the Recording Log for more than just a conflict screen when something doesn't record.

On MDN, what is the Episodes to Keep Option range? I heard it was 3-7 or ALL?

Jack

In the sense that Navigator only remembers that it has previously recorded an episode for the duration of the recording log, and not beyond, yes. The parameters don't really change, but it does eventually forget that it already recorded a particular episode.

I have been telling anyone who will listen for some time now that the recording log is the key to managing suppression of duplicate recordings... which has nothing whatsoever with the "New" designation. By the way, if that 1pm showing didn't record for some reason (outage at the time, conflict with a higher priority show, etc), it WOULD then record the 7pm showing automatically because there would be no successful recording log entry for the 1pm showing.

I'm not even sure what the options for keeping episodes on ODN are, let alone MDN. I never change mine from "Keep All Episodes"... one of the nice benefits of the 360GB HDD.

Virtually all of my series recordings are set as:

New Episodes Only
All showings
Keep All Episodes
The only thing I ever change is a few series are set to "New & Repeats" - typically for non-episodic programs such as NFL Live, older syndicated shows that have no "New" episodes, or if I'm catching up on a show during summer repeats that I didn't record at all during the first-run season.

While I've read a few claims an external HDD does work with a HDC/ODN box, most everyone who has tried it has failed. The general consensus is ODN 2.x/HDC did work, but ODN 3.x on a HDC does not.
Thanks for the reply. My searches were starting to paint the same picture, but I appreciate the confirmation. I also appreciate the recap of what works and what doesn't.

It's one thing to have been switched from a reasonably good interface to one that is quite a bit behind the curve (to put it mildly). But then to also lose the expansion capabilities that the previous software allowed, simply adds insult to injury. This is yet one more example (among many) of TWC’s appalling disregard for its customers. I realize that Econ 101 teaches that such corporate behavior is simply one of the by-products in oligopolistic or monopolistic industries. But knowing that doesn’t make it any easier to swallow when it moves from the textbook and into the reality of one’s own living room.

<Sigh> About the only avenue this consumer has for registering his displeasure is to write letters to the FTC, FCC, and Time Warner Cable. I realize this will have the same effect as spitting into the ocean, but I feel it's more or less our civic duty to go on record to the regulators about such matters. While I don't hold political office, I am called upon, professionally, to provide input to local governments on contractual matters...including franchise agreements. I fully intend to voice my displeasure as part of my input...but even so...I'm afraid my voice on its own doesn't carry near enough weight to effect change in a corporate giant's behavior.

Beyond registering my displeasure, I of course have the option to find some other alternative to what TWC offers. But this irks the heck out of me because TWC receives generous support from my local municipality via its franchise agreement. One would think that the preferential treatment (i.e., no-competition zones) that such agreements provide to a firm would inspire them to be responsive to the preferences of the very citizens (and customers) that granted them such an arrangement in the first place!

My reading indicates that TWC has been very nearly derailed in some communities over this very issue. I can only hope that one day my local community might be one that actually accomplishes it. Verizon FIOS? Are you listening? Give us a call…perhaps its time we talk.

Thanks for the reply. My searches were starting to paint the same picture, but I appreciate the confirmation. I also appreciate the recap of what works and what doesn't.

It's one thing to have been switched from a reasonably good interface to one that is quite a bit behind the curve (to put it mildly). But then to also lose the expansion capabilities that the previous software allowed, simply adds insult to injury. This is yet one more example (among many) of TWC’s appalling disregard for its customers. I realize that Econ 101 teaches that such corporate behavior is simply one of the by-products in oligopolistic or monopolistic industries. But knowing that doesn’t make it any easier to swallow when it moves from the textbook and into the reality of one’s own living room.

<Sigh> About the only avenue this consumer has for registering his displeasure is to write letters to the FTC, FCC, and Time Warner Cable. I realize this will have the same effect as spitting into the ocean, but I feel it's more or less our civic duty to go on record to the regulators about such matters. While I don't hold political office, I am called upon, professionally, to provide input to local governments on contractual matters...including franchise agreements. I fully intend to voice my displeasure as part of my input...but even so...I'm afraid my voice on its own doesn't carry near enough weight to effect change in a corporate giant's behavior.

Beyond registering my displeasure, I of course have the option to find some other alternative to what TWC offers. But this irks the heck out of me because TWC receives generous support from my local municipality via its franchise agreement. One would think that the preferential treatment (i.e., no-competition zones) that such agreements provide to a firm would inspire them to be responsive to the preferences of the very citizens (and customers) that granted them such an arrangement in the first place!

My reading indicates that TWC has been very nearly derailed in some communities over this very issue. I can only hope that one day my local community might be one that actually accomplishes it. Verizon FIOS? Are you listening? Give us a call…perhaps its time we talk.

Shutterman,

Did you see my previous list of compatabile drives for HDC boxes? This is what someone got from corporate and he posted this on the forum:

Just wanted to let folks know what I was just told- I called TWC tech support about transferring a TIVO lifetime subscription and when the tech asked why I stated that I was dissatisfied with the storage of the 8300hdc. He stated,"You know you can add an external hard drive..."
I told him that I had heard other wise and he said that they had been testing drives, and were still testing drives, but had a list of compatible external drives, and that he would email that list to me.
He did. Here is the list he sent

Seagate models: ST3160801XS (160GB) and ST3400832AS (400GB)
Maxtor models: Quickview P01K160 (160GB) and J01M300 (300GB)
Western Digital: models: WDG1S5000 (500GB), WDXS1600JDNN (160GB) and WD2500JD-56HBC0 (250GB).


Jack

Thanks for the reply. My searches were starting to paint the same picture, but I appreciate the confirmation. I also appreciate the recap of what works and what doesn't.

It's one thing to have been switched from a reasonably good interface to one that is quite a bit behind the curve (to put it mildly). But then to also lose the expansion capabilities that the previous software allowed, simply adds insult to injury. This is yet one more example (among many) of TWC’s appalling disregard for its customers. I realize that Econ 101 teaches that such corporate behavior is simply one of the by-products in oligopolistic or monopolistic industries. But knowing that doesn’t make it any easier to swallow when it moves from the textbook and into the reality of one’s own living room.

<Sigh> About the only avenue this consumer has for registering his displeasure is to write letters to the FTC, FCC, and Time Warner Cable. I realize this will have the same effect as spitting into the ocean, but I feel it's more or less our civic duty to go on record to the regulators about such matters. While I don't hold political office, I am called upon, professionally, to provide input to local governments on contractual matters...including franchise agreements. I fully intend to voice my displeasure as part of my input...but even so...I'm afraid my voice on its own doesn't carry near enough weight to effect change in a corporate giant's behavior.

Beyond registering my displeasure, I of course have the option to find some other alternative to what TWC offers. But this irks the heck out of me because TWC receives generous support from my local municipality via its franchise agreement. One would think that the preferential treatment (i.e., no-competition zones) that such agreements provide to a firm would inspire them to be responsive to the preferences of the very citizens (and customers) that granted them such an arrangement in the first place!

My reading indicates that TWC has been very nearly derailed in some communities over this very issue. I can only hope that one day my local community might be one that actually accomplishes it. Verizon FIOS? Are you listening? Give us a call…perhaps its time we talk.

I do not know if you had SARA or PASSPORT. Just speaking from my prespective.I had SARA and that interface was so deficient in so any ways it almost made me ill to use. Passport and now Navigator is so superior to SARA in so many ways. WOODY

Are you saying that when Sort by Favorites DID function in MDN, that the favorites were in some random order rather than sorted in numerical order?

Not exactly... keep in mind I got "converted" to a version nobody else has! The sort WAS there after conversion, but got "removed" most likely when they fixed the duplicate recording bug.

The "sort" moved the favorites to the top of the list, i.e. before channel 1. I'd guess those 2 "groupings" were numeric sorted...

I understood how it worked, but after living with it for a while, I stopped it. THUS I had no idea when exactly it got removed... although I think my "guess" may be correct.

What I want (which I'll never GET) is 2 sorts, by numerical or only favorites... a one button push choice. THAT I consider good UI design... something TWC obviously has no clue about.

Series Recording Question,

Suppose that you want to record a series that is NOT listed as New in the guide and has never been listed as New in the guide, (Like an old syndicated show from the 70's.) Does Navigator have to specifically see the word NEW in a series in order to treat the recordings of episodes as new?

Is Navigator smart enough to look at first run episode descriptions for series that are not described as New to know episodes should be skipped if they are repeated?

Jack

I think it's the same as Passport, i.e. you have to set it for "New & Repeats."

I only have one series set that way, but it only broadcasts once per week. I'm curious IF it may fall into the conflict resolution thing, where it will only record one instance. However, somehow I doubt that.

What I used to do with Passport was to look at all the times each episode was shown and pick one unique one (usually after I had gone to sleep) and set it to that time only. One gotcha, you HAVE to scroll the guide to that time and then do series... so the option SHOWs you the time you want.

That SHOULD work.

Shutterman,

Did you see my previous list of compatabile drives for HDC boxes? This is what someone got from corporate and he posted this on the forum:

Just wanted to let folks know what I was just told- I called TWC tech support about transferring a TIVO lifetime subscription and when the tech asked why I stated that I was dissatisfied with the storage of the 8300hdc. He stated,"You know you can add an external hard drive..."
I told him that I had heard other wise and he said that they had been testing drives, and were still testing drives, but had a list of compatible external drives, and that he would email that list to me.
He did. Here is the list he sent

Seagate models: ST3160801XS (160GB) and ST3400832AS (400GB)
Maxtor models: Quickview P01K160 (160GB) and J01M300 (300GB)
Western Digital: models: WDG1S5000 (500GB), WDXS1600JDNN (160GB) and WD2500JD-56HBC0 (250GB).


Jack

I have WDG1S5000 (500GB) - that's the one in My DVR Expander - and it does not work since Navigator 3*; worked fine with 2*. Ask him if he tested it with 8300HDC (with 3* Navigator), not 8300HD.

If an episode is repeated on the same channel within the window of the record log, it should not record the same episode a second time once it is successfully recorded.

So... for instance:

Suppose you have Series Manager set to record "All Showings"/"New+Repeats" of Bones on TNT, which is all syndicated repeats - no "New" episodes. Tomorrow, an episode is shown at 1pm and is repeated at 7pm. The same episode is also shown again this Friday, and also in three weeks. Navigator will record the 1pm showing tomorrow, but will skip the 7pm and Friday repeats. However, it WILL record that same episode again when it repeats in three weeks because the recording log entry for the original recording would have dropped by then.

Ah, I "guessed" it may work that way! I'd still do it the way I proposed because one MAY have so many scheduled at some point that one COULD be in danger of having something recorded but not yet watched deleted.

Funny you mention Bones on TNT... THAT may be an issue because they seem to run 4 or 5 unique shows every single night. It's not the only syndication run that schedules multiple episode runs that way (think I've seen it on USA once or twice).

Of course, this discussion comes about mostly because so many have so little space for recordings. In the SD days, 160G drives were more than adequate (90 hours of "space"). The MSOs are heavily pushing HD, but choose to spend money on advertising rather than giving customers more recording space. What really burns my ass is that they COULD be giving us 500G drives with virtually NO expense change on their part, yet they CHOOSE to severely limit us (my guess is it's a way to appease content holders with whom they pay fees for their content).

Did you see my previous list of compatabile drives for HDC boxes? I follow this thread pretty closely and I've never seen this list published by you or anyone else. I tried a search and can't find it.

Here's my problem. With this on again/off again feature, I've been burnt several times with lost recordings. The last time someone tried to convince us that he had gotten it to work with the 3.* release, several people tried to recreate his experiment with negative results. Not only that, in the attempt, some of us lost many of our recordings on the INTERNAL drive.

I want desperately to add more storage to my 8300HDC, but I'm very reluctant to rely on a list that came from a back channel at TWC and that no one on these forums can confirm are functional. I would think that if any of the devices on your list worked, someone would have chimed in.

I have been telling anyone who will listen for some time now that the recording log is the key to managing suppression of duplicate recordings... which has nothing whatsoever with the "New" designation. By the way, if that 1pm showing didn't record for some reason (outage at the time, conflict with a higher priority show, etc), it WOULD then record the 7pm showing automatically because there would be no successful recording log entry for the 1pm showing.

Indeed you have (mostly to get it through my thick head!)... BUT by the same reasoning, they NEVER would have to actually put that NEW designation on any series, as the series recording will ONLY actually record one unique show. SEEMS to me, the NEW means that only the first instance gets scheduled. I absolutely find a value in that!

I don't know the answer, but if it was set for New and repeats, that seems to mean until the first unique one was actually listed as "deleted by the user" (or actually recorded, I assume that falls into the recording logic as well) in the log, every episode WOULD be actually scheduled. Then, as soon as the first unique WAS recorded, then the other scheduled ones may vanish...

Actually, next time I am fussing, I'll try it to see what logic is followed...

<Sigh> About the only avenue this consumer has for registering his displeasure is to write letters to the FTC, FCC, and Time Warner Cable. I realize this will have the same effect as spitting into the ocean, but I feel it's more or less our civic duty to go on record to the regulators about such matters.

I'd advise your local franchising authority. Generally, it's a state authority, but in big cities, it's also a local city government agency. Where I live, the overall authority is the state Public Service Commission, but in NYC one needs to complain to the local authority (DOITT; Department of Information Technology and Telecommunications).

At least here, an online complain to DOITT seems to always get a response from TWC within 24 hours... usually from a PR person, or a retention specialist, avoiding the usual CSR chain.

<----------The day for my deconversion from full brunt sara begins today ....Ordering TIVO SERIES 3 today ! ...... R.I.H. (rest in hell) sara where you belong !!!!:D

Ah, I "guessed" it may work that way! I'd still do it the way I proposed because one MAY have so many scheduled at some point that one COULD be in danger of having something recorded but not yet watched deleted.

Funny you mention Bones on TNT... THAT may be an issue because they seem to run 4 or 5 unique shows every single night. It's not the only syndication run that schedules multiple episode runs that way (think I've seen it on USA once or twice).

Of course, this discussion comes about mostly because so many have so little space for recordings. In the SD days, 160G drives were more than adequate (90 hours of "space"). The MSOs are heavily pushing HD, but choose to spend money on advertising rather than giving customers more recording space. What really burns my ass is that they COULD be giving us 500G drives with virtually NO expense change on their part, yet they CHOOSE to severely limit us (my guess is it's a way to appease content holders with whom they pay fees for their content).

I used Bones on TNT as an example because I actually recorded a bunch of TNT episodes this past summer to catch up on earlier seasons that I never had watched.

The multiple unique episodes (4 per each afternoon "Bones Block") all recorded... each episode is uniquely tracked as far as repeating the recordings for later showings. And TNT DID repeat all the episodes in several sessions over the course of the summer... those that repeated outside of the recording log window several weeks later than the original airing did record again. I'd watch the first few seconds and if I'd seen it before I'd just hit Stop/Delete and move on to the next episode. That was much more expeditious than babysitting the record schedule by looking at the episode descriptions and trying to remember if I'd seen that one or not.

Indeed you have (mostly to get it through my thick head!)... BUT by the same reasoning, they NEVER would have to actually put that NEW designation on any series, as the series recording will ONLY actually record one unique show. SEEMS to me, the NEW means that only the first instance gets scheduled. I absolutely find a value in that!

I don't know the answer, but if it was set for New and repeats, that seems to mean until the first unique one was actually listed as "deleted by the user" (or actually recorded, I assume that falls into the recording logic as well) in the log, every episode WOULD be actually scheduled. Then, as soon as the first unique WAS recorded, then the other scheduled ones may vanish...

Actually, next time I am fussing, I'll try it to see what logic is followed...

The New designation is used to differentiate a first run episode (no matter how many times it is aired during its "premiere" period, typically a week for cable series that air multiple times during the week) versus an episode that was seen earlier in the year (i.e, summer repeats). It does this well. However, management of duplicate recordings of the same episode, regardless of whether it is a premier episode or a repeat episode, depends solely on the Recording Log.

Besides the ability this creates for auto conflict resolution, it also allows very easy hands off management of series such as The Closer, that each week replay the previous week's episode at 8pm and the "New" episode at 9pm. Just setting it to "New Only" will suppress recording of the 8pm replay of the previous week's episode. With the New designation taking care of that aspect of series management, the record log is used to suppress duplicate recordings of ANY episode recorded.

<----------The day for my deconversion from full brunt sara begins today ....Ordering TIVO SERIES 3 today ! ...... R.I.H. (rest in hell) sara where you belong !!!!:D

Are Series 3's still being sold, I thought the HD model replaced it?

Why not a HD XLs (one gig drives, learning remotes) from amazon... $420 each?

Yea i meant the hd series...sorry....I think the drive on the hd series is plenty for me ....i'm home alot have severe back problems.:o

the learning remotes are very nice ....i might buy one of the remotes if there compatible with Hd series.

Dumb fed - ex screwed up my gift card now i won't be ordering the tivo til' friday!:(

If i didn't have bad luck i wouldn't have any luck at all.:mad:

Dumb fed - ex screwed up my gift card now i won't be ordering the tivo til' friday!:(

If i didn't have bad luck i wouldn't have any luck at all.:mad:

Oh that Slugworth! He is the worst,

First he won't let Abyss get a Gator, now he has a job at Fed Ex where he messes up Abyss' Gift Card!!!!

Jack

I follow this thread pretty closely and I've never seen this list published by you or anyone else. I tried a search and can't find it.

Here's my problem. With this on again/off again feature, I've been burnt several times with lost recordings. The last time someone tried to convince us that he had gotten it to work with the 3.* release, several people tried to recreate his experiment with negative results. Not only that, in the attempt, some of us lost many of our recordings on the INTERNAL drive.

I want desperately to add more storage to my 8300HDC, but I'm very reluctant to rely on a list that came from a back channel at TWC and that no one on these forums can confirm are functional. I would think that if any of the devices on your list worked, someone would have chimed in.

The list is in my quoted response to Shutterman a few posts up. Note that this was taken from someone else who talked to a higher-level tech and published a list of supposed Expander Drives that work with the HDC boxes. But I have no idea that they actually work on a division by division basis or what the deal is with that.

I did find out that there was an upgrade to several of the HDC boxes that broke E-SATA support at the corporate level. They are working on a fix that should be out 1st Quarter 2010. Best advice I can give is to contact your local TWC office and in the Contact Us Forum request that your issues get sent to the Engineering Department. (But you must SPECIFICALLY say Forward this to engineering. Even request if you want, someone from engineering to call you back. Bob Boden the President of TWC-San Diego does a great job with customer feedback and if you request engineering personal to contact you, you have a better chance of getting some results by bypassing the often brain-dead CSR reps.

Jack

Whips a gobstopper at slugworth's head...haha ! :)

Shutterman,

Did you see my previous list of compatabile drives for HDC boxes? This is what someone got from corporate and he posted this on the forum:

Seagate models: ST3160801XS (160GB) and ST3400832AS (400GB)
Maxtor models: Quickview P01K160 (160GB) and J01M300 (300GB)
Western Digital: models: WDG1S5000 (500GB), WDXS1600JDNN (160GB) and WD2500JD-56HBC0 (250GB).

Interesting info, Jack...thanks. I’d looked around a bit for some sort of technical paper that might have been posted somewhere for a clue as to why drives like the WD MyExpander aren't compatible with HDC + Nav 3.x. I wasn’t able to locate anything, but I didn’t do an exhaustive search either. My thought was that if I could find out what the technical mismatch is, perhaps I then might be able to locate a drive out there that would work. It does seem like there ought to be SOME drive out there somewhere that does.

However, in my case all of that may now be moot. I had the day off today so I dropped by my local TWC outlet. I thought it might be worth a shot to see if they still had any of the SA 8300HD models around. To my great surprise, the helpful counter rep found one (and unfortunately, only one) in the back. I fired it up and I currently have it taping a couple of things just to make sure everything works.

Another shocker was to see that I now have Passport back again. I thought Navigator would be pushed onto it at boot up, but apparently not. However, I imagine it will download eventually…most likely at 2:00 AM as was done before. I’ll wait until after this happens before re-installing my WD MyDVR Expander. Until then, I’ll keep my fingers crossed.


I'd advise your local franchising authority. Generally, it's a state authority, but in big cities, it's also a local city government agency. Where I live, the overall authority is the state Public Service Commission, but in NYC one needs to complain to the local authority (DOITT; Department of Information Technology and Telecommunications).
Appreciate the helpful advice RG. While I made mention only of my local municipality’s agreement, it is in fact more complicated than that.

And on that note, I have to add that my earlier post was written when my frustration level was high and my reasoning powers low. As such, it turned into a bit of a rant. In the cold light of day, I can see how some of the actions I mentioned taking are perhaps not warranted. From TWC’s point of view, they are simply trying to deploy software that can best take advantage of what the new network architecture offers. So, again from their point of view, they thus still providing service to customers and as such are living up to their contractual obligations. Never the less…:rolleyes:

As a courtesy to others who may later follow this thread, after Navigator has been loaded up on my box I’ll re-install the Expander and report back. Thanks again to all who offered advice.

Another shocker was to see that I now have Passport back again. I thought Navigator would be pushed onto it at boot up, but apparently not. However, I imagine it will download eventually…most likely at 2:00 AM as was done before. I’ll wait until after this happens before re-installing my WD MyDVR Expander. Until then, I’ll keep my fingers crossed.

You are correct... another 2am upgrade is in your future. The updates for boxes that use the ODN version of Navigator (SA HDC boxes) are rolled out separately from the MDN version (SA HD boxes)... they now look and act (mostly) similarly, but they are completely different software.

Once ODN is rolled out, you likely will start seeing Samsung 3090 or 3270 boxes in your system. There have not been any eSATA success stories yet for these boxes, but ALL 3270s come with a 360GB internal HDD, and some 3090s have them as as well... plus the 3090 can be, ahem, field upgraded to a 360GB drive for cheap.

Whats really strange is when I paid my Time Warner bill few days ago. I asked about the Samsung boxes. I was told they did not have any of those in but had just received 100 brand new still in the box 8240HDC's. Wonder what thats all about? WOODY

Whats really strange is when I paid my Time Warner bill few days ago. I asked about the Samsung boxes. I was told they did not have any of those in but had just received 100 brand new still in the box 8240HDC's. Wonder what thats all about? WOODY

I did hear that there are some small, as in really small, bugs in the Samsungs that should be fixed before the end of first quarter 2010. A big bug that has been fixed is that the VOD channels now work in the Samsung boxes.

I am surprised that they are shipping new SA-8240 HDC's. I would think they would be 8300HDC. What's the highest number SA-8000 series DVR that is out there right now? Does anyone know what division is using it? I thought I heard someone say there is an SA-8500, but I cannot be sure.

Jack

Another shocker was to see that I now have Passport back again. I thought Navigator would be pushed onto it at boot up, but apparently not. However, I imagine it will download eventually…most likely at 2:00 AM as was done before. I’ll wait until after this happens before re-installing my WD MyDVR Expander. Until then, I’ll keep my fingers crossed.

Hi Shutter,

That's cool you got a Passport box! But unfortunately, don't count on it for too long. One thing you might want to do is not be having your TV doing a lot of stuff between 2am-5am until Navigator gets downloaded. We have had people having both tuners busy during that time causing installation hangs and problems. The less amount of activity your box has during a Navigator download or update process, the better it will go.

Let us know when you have been Gatored and how that Expander Drive works with it. GOOD IDEA to wait till you get Navigator fully installed before using it. As you now have an MDN box, it SHOULD (knock on wood.) work.

Jack

I'd be surprised if they get many orders for the 8300HDC. The 83240HDC is not an inferior unit; it's just the 8300HDC without analog tuning or the analog-to-digital conversion stuff required for recording analog channels onto HDD.

Cisco does have higher spec DVRs at this point, the 8600 series DVRs (http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps10318/ps10348/G1699B-8600_Series_One_Sheet_Jan2009.pdf), 8640, 8642, 8650 and 8652 (the 865xs have analog tuning and the 86x2s have MoCA and Ethernet). Faster processors, more features.

Strange that even the new models have versions with analog tuning. I should think that most of the cable systems, if they haven't gone all-digital, at least have digital simulcasts of all of their analog channels. But then, they wouldn't keep these things stocked up and sell them by ones and twos; they'd make tons of them to order. It doesn't hurt to have alternative supported models which few customers buy.

I did hear that there are some small, as in really small, bugs in the Samsungs that should be fixed before the end of first quarter 2010. A big bug that has been fixed is that the VOD channels now work in the Samsung boxes.

I am surprised that they are shipping new SA-8240 HDC's. I would think they would be 8300HDC. What's the highest number SA-8000 series DVR that is out there right now? Does anyone know what division is using it? I thought I heard someone say there is an SA-8500, but I cannot be sure.

Jack

The 8240HDC is identical to the 8300HDC except no analog tuner.

The 8240HDC is identical to the 8300HDC except no analog tuner.

Maybe the 8240hdc are cheaper than 8300HDC without loseing any performance. Just my thought. WOODY

I hope everyone had a great thanksgiving !!! ....i'm on this thread so much figured i would pass along this message on the day where we give thanks. ............................Enjoy the holiday!!!!:)

Maybe the 8240hdc are cheaper than 8300HDC without loseing any performance. Just my thought. WOODYThat's what they're for. AFAIK, all of the large systems put up digital simulcasts of their analog tiers two or three years back, and most of the smaller systems have gone all digital. Why pay for analog tuners and A-to-D conversion circuitry that you don't need?

IIRC, the 8240 shipped a year or two after the 8300.

Maybe the 8240hdc are cheaper than 8300HDC without loseing any performance. Just my thought. WOODY

Performance is the same... any system that has full digital simulcasts of analog basic is a candidate to use the 8240.

I hope everyone had a great thanksgiving !!! ....i'm on this thread so much figured i would pass along this message on the day where we give thanks. ............................Enjoy the holiday!!!!:)

Happy T-day to all Navigator friend's, enemies, and don't have yets!!!! LOL!

Thanks to everyone for your friendship and support!!!!

Jack

Slightly off topic,

But a relative friend of mine was telling me about some remote sensor expander device that you can plug into your cable box, (He has two SA-8300 HDC's and an SA-8300 HD and what it does is if your cable box in an awkward position where the sensor can't pick it up good, it improves the capability of the sensor so the remote works better. I didn't hear everything he said, and I don't know if you need a special remote for it, just know that the device plugs into the expansion port on your cable box. Details anyone?

My brother's 8300 is slow and pixiated on every channel. His box is several years old. I told him to get a Samsung or ask for a Samsung on a service call. I told him that any DVR replacement he gets would be better than what he has now. I said that the software in the Samsungs and HDC's is the same, but that the Samsungs are faster.

Jack

But a relative friend of mine was telling me about some remote sensor expander device that you can plug into your cable box, (He has two SA-8300 HDC's and an SA-8300 HD and what it does is if your cable box in an awkward position where the sensor can't pick it up good, it improves the capability of the sensor so the remote works better. I didn't hear everything he said, and I don't know if you need a special remote for it, just know that the device plugs into the expansion port on your cable box. Details anyone?It used to be that the high-end remotes included RF control which could be picked up by an IR extender, but now, apparently, you can get this (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/remotes/universal_remotes/devices/6347&cl=us,en) gimmick from Logitech, which supposedly will work with any IR remote.

Bye guys. Switched to a Moxi. HD picture is much better. Save a bunch of money over long term. It has 500GB drive + 750GB eSata that stopped working well with my SA8300HD that I turned in. Good riddance.

Bye guys. Switched to a Moxi. HD picture is much better. Save a bunch of money over long term. It has 500GB drive + 750GB eSata that stopped working well with my SA8300HD that I turned in. Good riddance.

Can't blame you. I'm so sick of my SARA based DVR. I'm just hoping we see a Tivo series 4 or Two Way based Moxi unit soon.

I did hear that there are some small, as in really small, bugs in the Samsungs that should be fixed before the end of first quarter 2010. A big bug that has been fixed is that the VOD channels now work in the Samsung boxes.

I am surprised that they are shipping new SA-8240 HDC's. I would think they would be 8300HDC. What's the highest number SA-8000 series DVR that is out there right now? Does anyone know what division is using it? I thought I heard someone say there is an SA-8500, but I cannot be sure.

Jack

Isn't the 8240 DVR one without any analog tuner, but otherwise the same as the 8300?

Wasn''t the 8500 supposed to be a multi-room DVR??

I'd be surprised if they get many orders for the 8300HDC. The 83240HDC is not an inferior unit; it's just the 8300HDC without analog tuning or the analog-to-digital conversion stuff required for recording analog channels onto HDD.

Cisco does have higher spec DVRs at this point, the 8600 series DVRs (http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps10318/ps10348/G1699B-8600_Series_One_Sheet_Jan2009.pdf), 8640, 8642, 8650 and 8652 (the 865xs have analog tuning and the 86x2s have MoCA and Ethernet). Faster processors, more features.

Strange that even the new models have versions with analog tuning. I should think that most of the cable systems, if they haven't gone all-digital, at least have digital simulcasts of all of their analog channels. But then, they wouldn't keep these things stocked up and sell them by ones and twos; they'd make tons of them to order. It doesn't hurt to have alternative supported models which few customers buy.

Ahhhh, gues I got the analog tuner part right!

My understanding (at least in my market) is that the anticipation is that analog channels will remain for quite some time. I was "told" the reasoning was that there are a large amount of customers who were only capable of analog. Apparently, a lot of that is corporate accounts where a single "feed" services many TV sets.

Just reporting what I have heard... personally I find those excuses to be weak at best.

We HAD something like ~70. They ditched ~40 and we got 60 some odd HD channels all at once (I think we are ~116 HD now). Supposedly, the remaining ~30 will stay that way for quite a while. We "know" that they are capable of having SDV, even though it isn't used now. IF they released the last analogs, they would almost never have to go to SDV because we'd have well over 200 channels possible.

Slightly off topic,

But a relative friend of mine was telling me about some remote sensor expander device that you can plug into your cable box, (He has two SA-8300 HDC's and an SA-8300 HD and what it does is if your cable box in an awkward position where the sensor can't pick it up good, it improves the capability of the sensor so the remote works better. I didn't hear everything he said, and I don't know if you need a special remote for it, just know that the device plugs into the expansion port on your cable box. Details anyone?

My brother's 8300 is slow and pixiated on every channel. His box is several years old. I told him to get a Samsung or ask for a Samsung on a service call. I told him that any DVR replacement he gets would be better than what he has now. I said that the software in the Samsungs and HDC's is the same, but that the Samsungs are faster.

Jack

Much as I gripe about MDN on my 8300HD, I'm not so sure to write that box off... I don't see any inherent hardware issues. The ONLY thing that will eventually get me to replace it is the ability to swap in a larger drive on a Samsung.

Then again, I think some may feel the HD/MDN combo can have advantages over, say, a HDC/ODN combo.

It used to be that the high-end remotes included RF control which could be picked up by an IR extender, but now, apparently, you can get this (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/remotes/universal_remotes/devices/6347&cl=us,en) gimmick from Logitech, which supposedly will work with any IR remote.

I wonder why they don't seem to want to use Bluetooth?

I detest line of sight stuff... the pisser is I recall a STN remote back before the DVR days where the emitter was positioned to fire forward AND from the bottom of the remote. One COULD hold the remote vertical and still be direct line of sight.

Slightly off topic,

But a relative friend of mine was telling me about some remote sensor expander device that you can plug into your cable box, (He has two SA-8300 HDC's and an SA-8300 HD and what it does is if your cable box in an awkward position where the sensor can't pick it up good, it improves the capability of the sensor so the remote works better. I didn't hear everything he said, and I don't know if you need a special remote for it, just know that the device plugs into the expansion port on your cable box. Details anyone?

Here is a link that describes the IR Extender.

http://ciscosystems.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps8650/ps8663/4005303.pdf

They are powered by the USB port on the front of the SA box. It is a just a simple IR receiver and blaster with a 12 ft cable. I have two and they work great. Bought them two ago years from SA for about $25 each including shipping and tax.

Bye guys. Switched to a Moxi. HD picture is much better. Save a bunch of money over long term. It has 500GB drive + 750GB eSata that stopped working well with my SA8300HD that I turned in. Good riddance.

Interesting. You are not the first person who has stated that the picture quality of the Moxi is better than the 8300HD. I'm very disappointed in the picture quality of my 8300HD.

I guess the Moxi has a better MPEG decoder? What other hardware in the box can affect picture quality? I thought I read somewhere that the 8300HD is not capable of true 1920 x 1080i, but rather something lke 1440 x 1080i.

Interesting note while setting up a tivo install....I called a tech about setting up an appointment ...the tech asked me why a tivo instead of keeping my hdc model from time warner ....I told him i was sick of having sara ... he replied there no better .....The guy should be a stand up comedian tivo is ton's better i told him . Anyway he said that apparently our division is running behind on testing....i figured that ....we should be seeing navigator by the end of January...that includes all parts of new york he said and was testing it at that very instant . I found that ironic seeing that most times when i call about navigator either no one knows what it is but this time a tech testing seemed less random then normal so maybe it will indeed be in January in Central Ny (Etc.) . But by then i should be enjoying the tivo hd series i have an appointment set up for december 7 th. Best buy had a black friday sale for $199
Had to travel 60 miles to get the last one ....it must have been meant to be . I'll update on when i'm installed hopefully put up some pics or to....I know satch and others will be interested !!!!!I'm so stoked !!!!!:)

Why is this tivo crap in here?

It was more or less about about Navigator i was refering to.

After reading this article:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=afyf3PB_KjbQ

I think it's going to be less likely that TWC are going to be putting a great effort into making Navigator more slick and integrate more features. TWC are all about VOD and their new plan is to use on demand content to differentiate themselves from other cablecos. You might have seen the 8 channels (:rolleyes:) featuring Start Over and now they are currently testing Look Back. Basically three days of TV shows on demand and of course, only available in testing markets.

"We want to give our customers access to any content, anytime, on any device, anywhere,” said Stern. “These features require a pretty sophisticated video on-demand system, which is why it’s a competitive differentiator for us."

Got to keep those shareholder meetings interesting!

After reading this article:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=afyf3PB_KjbQ

I think it's going to be less likely that TWC are going to be putting a great effort into making Navigator more slick and integrate more features. TWC are all about VOD and their new plan is to use on demand content to differentiate themselves from other cablecos. You might have seen the 8 channels (:rolleyes:) featuring Start Over and now they are currently testing Look Back. Basically three days of TV shows on demand and of course, only available in testing markets.

"We want to give our customers access to any content, anytime, on any device, anywhere,” said Stern. “These features require a pretty sophisticated video on-demand system, which is why it’s a competitive differentiator for us."

Got to keep those shareholder meetings interesting!

I feel almost the opposite,

Because TWC has put so much time, money, and energy trying to get Navigator working well, that I don't see any evidence of them abandoning the project any time soon. Navigator was their first entry into two-way adaptive systems, so I think that they will just work to get Navigator better to try to do SOMETHING that the competition isn't doing.........yet. If they would have abandoned Navigator, they would have done that two years ago. If it didn't happen than, don't count on it happening now. TWC is still defending it, and Navigator HAS gotten tons better, so I think the potential is there for them to keep improving it.

We have Keyword Search and expanded listings coming next year and remote DVR management. Caller ID on TV (With TWC Digital Phone Service) has worked well, Start Over continues to be enhanced, and the new feature called "Look Back" is coming.

I think TWC may slowly but gradually be seeing the light that they have to stay competitive. With the new HD channels approaching 20 more by the first of the year, at least my division will be up to about 75 HD channels and some regions of New York have over 100 HD channels.

With the terrible economy, I think that more people are also going to be nursing their existing services rather than spending more, because economic downturns can't compensate for the rate in which technology wants to increase, but can't. People can't afford new stuff as much as in the past.

For these reasons, I think that TWC may be looking more to expand on what they have, rather than forcing people to upgrade to newer services. It's difficult enough that programing costs have risen so high for cable, dish, and broadcasters. However, only time will determine what happens and how customers may react to this.

Jack

Interesting note while setting up a tivo install....I called a tech about setting up an appointment ...the tech asked me why a tivo instead of keeping my hdc model from time warner ....I told him i was sick of having sara ... he replied there no better .....The guy should be a stand up comedian tivo is ton's better i told him . Anyway he said that apparently our division is running behind on testing....i figured that ....we should be seeing navigator by the end of January...that includes all parts of new york he said and was testing it at that very instant . I found that ironic seeing that most times when i call about navigator either no one knows what it is but this time a tech testing seemed less random then normal so maybe it will indeed be in January in Central Ny (Etc.) . But by then i should be enjoying the tivo hd series i have an appointment set up for december 7 th. Best buy had a black friday sale for $199
Had to travel 60 miles to get the last one ....it must have been meant to be . I'll update on when i'm installed hopefully put up some pics or to....I know satch and others will be interested !!!!!I'm so stoked !!!!!:)

Thanks for the update Abyss!

So at least you will have two TV's. Your Tivo just to stop looking at SARA and Navigator whenever it comes out to your existing SARA box. If he said January, you might be getting the new MDN 3.0, which should have Keyword Search and some other stuff on it! At least by than SARA will be a nightmare that you have finally gotten rid of!

Looking forward to the pics!!!!

Jack

I feel almost the opposite,

Because TWC has put so much time, money, and energy trying to get Navigator working well, that I don't see any evidence of them abandoning the project any time soon.

Not so sure Jack... I seriously do NOT think they've put much of anything "into" Navigator. Far as I'm concerned, it shows. I mean, it's taken literally years to get to a reasonable stage, and it still is a big step backwards to those who had Passport for years. And I will not get into a UI debate, but it's very amateurish at best.

IMO

Not so sure Jack... I seriously do NOT think they've put much of anything "into" Navigator. Far as I'm concerned, it shows. I mean, it's taken literally years to get to a reasonable stage, and it still is a big step backwards to those who had Passport for years. And I will not get into a UI debate, but it's very amateurish at best.

IMO

I couldn't agree more, Navigator is an unmitigated disaster, I hate it, hate it hate it! There isn't a single "feature" that begins to justify tolerating the shortcomings of the piece of sh!t!

I really can't believe Passport is gone forever; I live in a co-op in Ft. Hamilton-Brooklyn, and don't have the option of bailing on TWNYC yet, so I'm stuck with it.

I couldn't agree more, Navigator is an unmitigated disaster, I hate it, hate it hate it! There isn't a single "feature" that begins to justify tolerating the shortcomings of the piece of sh!t!

I really can't believe Passport is gone forever; I live in a co-op in Ft. Hamilton-Brooklyn, and don't have the option of bailing on TWNYC yet, so I'm stuck with it.

Don't worry, Verizon is currently committed to having access to FiOS by 2017... BUT seeing as how there supposed first year commitment was so way off target, expect it to cry for more time.

OTOH, we do have some options... more so now that Moxi seems to want to really play in the DVR field.

I couldn't agree more, Navigator is an unmitigated disaster, I hate it, hate it hate it! There isn't a single "feature" that begins to justify tolerating the shortcomings of the piece of sh!t!

I really can't believe Passport is gone forever; I live in a co-op in Ft. Hamilton-Brooklyn, and don't have the option of bailing on TWNYC yet, so I'm stuck with it.

That's a good point too,

While Navigator will "get better." it will always be playing "catch up" to the other guides because the TWC in-house programmers did not have the experience of Moxi, Tivo, or even the excellence of Passport, which had almost a decade of design and testing under its belt.

However, I think that once better search options are offered, Navigator will meet the needs of most users. The thing is that 75% of the people I would estimate on this forum are "power users" who want something more, much more, than what TWC can provide in terms of a quality IPG.

Looking back over the past three years, I wonder how much the very justified bad PR of Navigator hurt TWC? I will never forget the Lincoln Nebraska horror stories of three years ago! I would say pretty badly. I wonder if TWC will ever be able to recover from that?

Jack

Not so sure Jack... I seriously do NOT think they've put much of anything "into" Navigator.

Except in your case Riverside, remember that you have that version MDN 2.4.6-21. That -21 build that no one else has!!!! I think they put that in there just for you! LOL!

Jack

I feel almost the opposite,

Because TWC has put so much time, money, and energy trying to get Navigator working well, that I don't see any evidence of them abandoning the project any time soon. Navigator was their first entry into two-way adaptive systems, so I think that they will just work to get Navigator better to try to do SOMETHING that the competition isn't doing.........yet. If they would have abandoned Navigator, they would have done that two years ago. If it didn't happen than, don't count on it happening now. TWC is still defending it, and Navigator HAS gotten tons better, so I think the potential is there for them to keep improving it.

Jack, I think you need to step back for a minute. I don't think anyone said TWC was going to abandon Navigator, but a lot of people on this board feel that TWC is not going to INVEST MORE into Navigator and if they do it will be VERY SLOWLY.

For the time being, TWC is focused on getting high speed internet and digital phone customers and their quarterly numbers prove it. They are losing cable customers, but gaining large numbers of internet and phone customers.

Until that growth slows, or until they start losing large numbers of cable subscribers, I don't see why they would change anything.

We have Keyword Search and expanded listings coming next year and remote DVR management.

Really? Do you have a source for these features other than people on this board? They are a cable company! It takes them forever to change! I have had Navigator for 18 months and the only thing that has changed is that it went from blue on blue to yellow on blue. That's it.

They have also removed features and the newest Samsung box is WORSE than the old SA 8300. Why do you have so much confidence in TWC?

I think TWC may slowly but gradually be seeing the light that they have to stay competitive. With the new HD channels approaching 20 more by the first of the year, at least my division will be up to about 75 HD channels and some regions of New York have over 100 HD channels.

I agree that TWC was getting clobbered by Directv 2 years ago about their HD channel count, but that isn't really related to them seeing the light on Navigator.

Other than the fact that it is human nature to be optimistic, why do you have so much confidence that TWC has seen the light on Navigator when all evidence points to the contrary?

In the past, on this thread, I have linked an article from TWC stating they had zero intention of making Navigator anything other than a middle of the road IPG.

http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=170180&site=cdn

"While tru2way gives his company a way to develop a decent "middle-of-the-road" leased box with some advanced navigation features and access to "Start Over," "Look Back," and other time-shifting apps developed by Time Warner Cable, the MSO, he said, probably couldn't afford to build boxes with Blu-ray and some of those other fancier features on board.

That's primarily because the government sets the rate cable operators can charge for leased boxes, so there's a hard ceiling on how much return they can get on the investment, he said, noting that TWC buys more than 2 million set-tops each year.

Tru2way, he said, will enable CE makers to create more sophisticated devices "that you [the set-top maker] could sell to the high end of our customer base."

JeffTWC a PR guy said that Navigator would get Keyword search in a future release.

They have also removed features and the newest Samsung box is WORSE than the old SA 8300. Why do you have so much confidence in TWC?

False optimism perhaps. Although I have been happy with Digital Phone and Road Runner. That is correct about new features in the Navigator Guide. I have only heard rumors on this forum and a few other similar boards.

But for me, I am stuck with TWC. I can't get dish because I have 1000 trees in my area, I can't get U-VERSE because our phone lines are crap and could not handle the bandwidth. We will NEVER get FIOS because of a pre-set agreement with Verizon and the state of Wisconsin I was told, which prevents FIOS from coming to our area.

OTA with an antenna is our only other option, seriously.

Jack

PS That sucks about your Samsung. Have you had your signal and line checked recently? We had our cable line outside the house replaced and it has decreased our SA-8300 box reboots from twice a week to maybe twice a month.

With the new HD channels approaching 20 more by the first of the year, at least my division will be up to about 75 HD channels and some regions of New York have over 100 HD channels.

Now that I have a Blu-Ray player, I can see just how poor the HD I get over TWC is. They talk about OnDemand, but have you ever tried watching any action movie over TWC in HD OnDemand? Macro-blocking galore during the action scenes. Until they can dedicate enough bandwidth to presenting HD movies in all their glorious detail, I'm stuck with romantic comedies from OnDemand, and buying/renting Blu-Rays for any sort of action movie.

Except in your case Riverside, remember that you have that version MDN 2.4.6-21. That -21 build that no one else has!!!! I think they put that in there just for you! LOL!

Jack

Don't know if you caught it, but it seems ONLY in my head end... meaning the lower half of Manhattan AND the outer boroughs are all on -19. There were some clear bugs, but they got dealt with in a slipstream update (one with no version change). Best I can tell, my -21 is functionally identical to -19.

But for me, I am stuck with TWC. I can't get dish because I have 1000 trees in my area, I can't get U-VERSE because our phone lines are crap and could not handle the bandwidth. We will NEVER get FIOS because of a pre-set agreement with Verizon and the state of Wisconsin I was told, which prevents FIOS from coming to our area.

OTA with an antenna is our only other option, seriously.

Jack

Indeed, some times I forget that there ARE issues with satellite reception in places other than the concrete canyons I live in. From here, the bird is only ~30º above the horizon... AND there are issues with landlords restricting dishes even when they COULD be used.

BUT my canyons DO seriously challenge OTA. In general, in the outer boroughs, OTA tends to be great, MANY have real direct line sight to the Empire State Bldg.

Time Warner - Kansas City has been calling subscribers about an "upgrade" coming down the pipes soon (probably overnight tonight or tomorrow), warning of multiple reboots, don't turn the box off, etc.

I wonder what kind of carnage we will wake to find.......I'm sure they can find a way to make Navigator worse.....

Discovered another little feature that is lost in a SARA to Navigator transition. My daughter's college apartment apartment in Greensboro was 'gatored a few weeks ago. She has an old 27" Sony CRT TV with a single composite video input (and a non-functioning tuner). I had set up her 8300HDC to feed the TV via that composite input, and then connected her DVD player into the AUX input jacks on the DVR, which worked just fine under SARA.

After being 'gatored, the AUX input on the 8300HDC no longer functions at all... which I verified on a friend's 8300HDC here in Charlotte. Now I have to find a damned video switch and drive 200+ miles round trip just to connect it and reprogram her Harmony remote to get her through one more semester.... ugh.

I realize that not many people likely use that AUX input these days, but the hardware has it... how hard could it have been to code it?

JeffTWC a PR guy said that Navigator would get Keyword search in a future release.

I was told by someone in Time Warner engineering that keyword search was comeing. WOODY

Forgive my ignorance in advance :) I had some issues with some newly pushed out HD channels not being received on my box 8300HD. He felt they hadn't been pushed to my node yet (which I know was incorrect because my neighbor had them) or the old Sara software was somehow not accessing them???

Anyways they switched me out to a 8240HDC box with the navigator software ODN v3.1.3_2.

My ignorant questions are:

Are all versions of this software slow and delayed?? (FF and RWD don't stop where you would like them to, overall UI speed is slow) Or is it a combination of box and software?

Needless to say the new OS got me the new channel, but now I am asking at what cost...

Are the MDN versions just as bad?

Any help or insight would be appreciated.

Forgive my ignorance in advance :) I had some issues with some newly pushed out HD channels not being received on my box 8300HD. He felt they hadn't been pushed to my node yet (which I know was incorrect because my neighbor had them) or the old Sara software was somehow not accessing them???

Anyways they switched me out to a 8240HDC box with the navigator software ODN v3.1.3_2.

My ignorant questions are:

Are all versions of this software slow and delayed?? (FF and RWD don't stop where you would like them to, overall UI speed is slow) Or is it a combination of box and software?

Needless to say the new OS got me the new channel, but now I am asking at what cost...

Are the MDN versions just as bad?

Any help or insight would be appreciated.

ODN on the 8240/8300HDC platform can be a little sluggish at times, though some boxes seem to be better than others. The new Samsung boxes run ODN just fine. I have not had one myself, but MDN on an 8300HD is supposed to run fairly well.

There are two possible issues with the FF/REW. First, the HDC boxes running ODN respond to the RELEASE of the play button, not the pressing of it. So once you get FF'ng, press and hold the Play button, then release the button when you want to resume play. Second, the boxes also automatically rewind a small bit when FF is complete, to compensate for typical reaction times. I, for one, found the amount of "rollback" just about perfect when I had and 8300HDC... virtually always would go back to a point 1-2 seconds prior to the end of the commercial... just enough to know you didn't miss any of the show. Unfortunately, the Samsungs are not as consistent in FF/REW behavior (though they still respond to the release of the Play button) and are a bit more difficult to master the perfect commercial skip.

Forgive my ignorance in advance :) I had some issues with some newly pushed out HD channels not being received on my box 8300HD. He felt they hadn't been pushed to my node yet (which I know was incorrect because my neighbor had them) or the old Sara software was somehow not accessing them???

Anyways they switched me out to a 8240HDC box with the navigator software ODN v3.1.3_2.

My ignorant questions are:

Are all versions of this software slow and delayed?? (FF and RWD don't stop where you would like them to, overall UI speed is slow) Or is it a combination of box and software?

Needless to say the new OS got me the new channel, but now I am asking at what cost...

Are the MDN versions just as bad?

Any help or insight would be appreciated.

It can be a combination of four things:

The model box you have
The software
*Your cable lines in and outside the home
*signal strength.

The last two choices I starred purposely. You should call and request an IN HOUSE TECHNICIAN (Not an independent contractor) to come out and check both your signal strength and the cable lines inside and outside your home. Those issues are very important and a box will not work well if there are problems with those issues. Please ask the In-House tech to check the cable lines and signal strength before replacing the box. That should help.

Jack

Discovered another little feature that is lost in a SARA to Navigator transition. My daughter's college apartment apartment in Greensboro was 'gatored a few weeks ago. She has an old 27" Sony CRT TV with a single composite video input (and a non-functioning tuner). I had set up her 8300HDC to feed the TV via that composite input, and then connected her DVD player into the AUX input jacks on the DVR, which worked just fine under SARA.

After being 'gatored, the AUX input on the 8300HDC no longer functions at all... which I verified on a friend's 8300HDC here in Charlotte. Now I have to find a damned video switch and drive 200+ miles round trip just to connect it and reprogram her Harmony remote to get her through one more semester.... ugh.

I realize that not many people likely use that AUX input these days, but the hardware has it... how hard could it have been to code it?

The Samsung boxes don't have Aux inputs so it would be a 8300HDC only feature.

I realize that not many people likely use that AUX input these days, but the hardware has it... how hard could it have been to code it?

They were always disabled under Passport, so no loss there.

ODN on the 8240/8300HDC platform can be a little sluggish at times, though some boxes seem to be better than others. The new Samsung boxes run ODN just fine. I have not had one myself, but MDN on an 8300HD is supposed to run fairly well.

Yeah, I can't say I've noticed any significant response delay to remote commands on the 8300.

I was told by someone in Time Warner engineering that keyword search was comeing. WOODY

One of the first updates is supposed to be where the cursor automatically begins on the show you are watching when you start searching. This is LONG OVERDUE!

Most of the sources have said Keyword Search is coming. But the early indications are that it will just be slipstreamed into the existing Keyboard. In other words, when you start your search, I think it will do Title results AND Keywords, but not one or the other.

I have also heard they are working on a way to reduce those annoying duplicate entries in the guide. Non-valid results on the screen SHOULD be eliminated as you type your search requests.

Jack

We have Keyword Search and expanded listings coming next year and remote DVR management. Caller ID on TV (With TWC Digital Phone Service) has worked well, Start Over continues to be enhanced, and the new feature called "Look Back" is coming.

Except you are missing the oft repeated fact that "we" have no guarantee that any of that will appear. This collective "we" you refer to could be one market in SC.

It's always been the same and it's the reason why I say that TWC only do enough to keep shareholders clapping. If they roll out a product (even if it's half-finished) in one market, then for TWC that's the task completed. Every other market can be put on a waiting list that may or may not be used for a roll out. That can mean that some areas may receive keyword search next year, for others it could be the year after, or the year after that. Why do you think they "decline to give a timeline" for Look Back?

What TWC say means absolutely nothing to anyone until the product appears in the market you live in. You may as well start saying that when the local forecast in Alaska calls for snow next week that must mean it's going to snow in Florida too.

And how is Start Over being advanced? There is no evidence it will perform any differently and the channels it's been deployed on are few and mostly useless and superfluous.

Except you are missing the oft repeated fact that "we" have no guarantee that any of that will appear. This collective "we" you refer to could be one market in SC.

It's always been the same and it's the reason why I say that TWC only do enough to keep shareholders clapping. If they roll out a product (even if it's half-finished) in one market, then for TWC that's the task completed. Every other market can be put on a waiting list that may or may not be used for a roll out. That can mean that some areas may receive keyword search next year, for others it could be the year after, or the year after that. Why do you think they "decline to give a timeline" for Look Back?

What TWC say means absolutely nothing to anyone until the product appears in the market you live in. You may as well start saying that when the local forecast in Alaska calls for snow next week that must mean it's going to snow in Florida too.

And how is Start Over being advanced? There is no evidence it will perform any differently and the channels it's been deployed on are few and mostly useless and superfluous.

Good points,

But what about keeping up with competition? If there is enough evidence that TWC will just do enough to keep shareholders clapping, what would they do if they see other subscribers going to other companies that have IPG's with more advanced features? If they don't care, they better start soon or TWC will lose customers and business in the video market.

TWC seems to be doing better with Road Runner and Digital Phone rather than cable for its service enhancements. Somewhere the vision of advanced video services for DVR got lost on them, and TIVO and Moxi picked up the pieces.

Jack

I was told by someone in Time Warner engineering that keyword search was comeing. WOODY

Yes, sometime in the next decade, we should see a rudimentary search function. BUT you probably won't be able to retain it, that may come in the 20-30 decade!

There are two possible issues with the FF/REW. First, the HDC boxes running ODN respond to the RELEASE of the play button, not the pressing of it. So once you get FF'ng, press and hold the Play button, then release the button when you want to resume play. Second, the boxes also automatically rewind a small bit when FF is complete, to compensate for typical reaction times. I, for one, found the amount of "rollback" just about perfect when I had and 8300HDC... virtually always would go back to a point 1-2 seconds prior to the end of the commercial... just enough to know you didn't miss any of the show. Unfortunately, the Samsungs are not as consistent in FF/REW behavior (though they still respond to the release of the Play button) and are a bit more difficult to master the perfect commercial skip.

Always thought of this as hysteresis. It's actually an excellent feature.

In MDN, it tends to "go back" a bit further than Passport did.

Never tried the "press, hold then release" then again, haven't had ODN. Does that technique stop it on a dime (with what one is viewing)? Sounds like it may miss a bit of the show's return from commercial.

FWIW, MDN on a HD is roughly about the same overall responsiveness as Passport was... very good. EXCEPT for the "next day" button, that takes a long pause. BUT, my guess is it may also first be checking the head end for new data before displaying the day's listings.

Good points,

But what about keeping up with competition? If there is enough evidence that TWC will just do enough to keep shareholders clapping, what would they do if they see other subscribers going to other companies that have IPG's with more advanced features? If they don't care, they better start soon or TWC will lose customers and business in the video market.

TWC seems to be doing better with Road Runner and Digital Phone rather than cable for its service enhancements. Somewhere the vision of advanced video services for DVR got lost on them, and TIVO and Moxi picked up the pieces.

Jack

One of the things about the cable "market" is that in general there is a real lack of competition. Hell, where I live, OTA simply isn't in the picture!

Now that I SHOULD have access to some actual competition, it's looking more and more like that competition is completely stalled in it's own roll out. Something which I'm sure TWC knows as well as I do.

Not to mention all the discussion not about "advanced" video services, it's a matter of not having the services we HAD for 2-3 years prior.

Yes, sometime in the next decade, we should see a rudimentary search function. BUT you probably won't be able to retain it, that may come in the 20-30 decade!

LOL!

Jack

One of my 3260's decided to not to show the VOD screen when you press Stop. It just paused it. I then rebooted and it works now. A new FW update is needed badly. It was good until v4.2.2.3. Here's hoping that v4.2.2.4 is much better.

Hey all,

I just heard from a guy in my TWC-Milwaukee division that has an HDC box and Sort By Favorites is gone.

http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/forums/showthread.php?p=54044#post54044

I told him to complain about it by calling and requesting to speak to a Technical Operations Supervisor. Maybe if enough people complain about the removal of this feature, it will be brought back in a software update.

I also gave him a workaround!

Jack

Hey all,

I just heard from a guy in my TWC-Milwaukee division that has an HDC box and Sort By Favorites is gone.

http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/forums/showthread.php?p=54044#post54044

I told him to complain about it by calling and requesting to speak to a Technical Operations Supervisor. Maybe if enough people complain about the removal of this feature, it will be brought back in a software update.

Jack

Well, that really does suck... any chance you can get the ODN version number from him?

Well, that really does suck... any chance you can get the ODN version number from him?

I showed him how to get the diagnostic channel for our division and asked him to go through those pages for an ODN software version. I don't want to give him the long version, (for techs only) because I know a couple of people who went in on that big diagnostics screen and it screwed up their boxes. Punching in the channel, he can just use Page +/- to look for a software version without a chance of messing something up.

Jack

Good points,

But what about keeping up with competition? If there is enough evidence that TWC will just do enough to keep shareholders clapping, what would they do if they see other subscribers going to other companies that have IPG's with more advanced features? If they don't care, they better start soon or TWC will lose customers and business in the video market.

Jack

Jack,

It's groundhog day.

Jack, I think you need to step back for a minute. I don't think anyone said TWC was going to abandon Navigator, but a lot of people on this board feel that TWC is not going to INVEST MORE into Navigator and if they do it will be VERY SLOWLY.

For the time being, TWC is focused on getting high speed internet and digital phone customers and their quarterly numbers prove it. They are losing cable customers, but gaining large numbers of internet and phone customers.

Until that growth slows, or until they start losing large numbers of cable subscribers, I don't see why they would change anything.

In the past, on this thread, I have linked an article from TWC stating they had zero intention of making Navigator anything other than a middle of the road IPG.

http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=170180&site=cdn

"While tru2way gives his company a way to develop a decent "middle-of-the-road" leased box with some advanced navigation features and access to "Start Over," "Look Back," and other time-shifting apps developed by Time Warner Cable, the MSO, he said, probably couldn't afford to build boxes with Blu-ray and some of those other fancier features on board.

That's primarily because the government sets the rate cable operators can charge for leased boxes, so there's a hard ceiling on how much return they can get on the investment, he said, noting that TWC buys more than 2 million set-tops each year.

Tru2way, he said, will enable CE makers to create more sophisticated devices "that you [the set-top maker] could sell to the high end of our customer base."

TWC is telling you that Navigator will only be a middle of the road DVR.

Jack,

It's groundhog day.



TWC is telling you that Navigator will only be a middle of the road DVR.

That's fine. Actually as long as Navigator gets some easier way to search for multiple listings of programs, especially Sports (i.e keyword search) and the new features work, I'll be happy with it.

Maybe a middle of the round DVR would make the majority of customers happy. The problem is that Navigator is still NOT a middle of the road DVR. I have seen that press release several times. I don't want all the bells and whistles, just an easier way to search for program information as good as what Passport had. Even the 2001-2005 version of Passport is/was fine by me.

I often wonder what new features we would have on the guide if TWC had remained with Passport.

Jack

You are correct... another 2am upgrade is in your future. The updates for boxes that use the ODN version of Navigator (SA HDC boxes) are rolled out separately from the MDN version (SA HD boxes)... they now look and act (mostly) similarly, but they are completely different software.
Well...it was nice while it lasted. Changing out my 8300HDC box for an 8300HD allowed me to enjoy all the functions of Passport again for about a week. But as I thought would happen, the dreaded Navigator update was pushed down to my HD box yesterday.

I am sad to report that, like the 8300HDC + Navigator, the Western Digital My DVR Expander also does not function with the 8300HD + Navigator. What is odd is that the drive IS recognized as attached storage, but Navigator does not see any additional recording space. That is, when the drive was attached, I recieved a dialog box telling me that an additional storage device had been attached. However, the menu that provides the percentage of storage space used did not change.

I'm hoping that if I find a way to reformat the DVR Expander, it might help. However, the computers I have only have SATA (instead of eSata) connections on the motherboard. Unless someone has some info that says this shouldn't matter, I'll probably wait until I can find someone with an eSata connector on their computer and then re-format.

But even if I get the Expander to work again, I may still be out of luck for having the kind of funcitonality I had before. As jcalabria points out above, there are two versions of Naviator. And wouldn't you know it, the MDN version does not have a couple of options that are important to my particular setup. When I had the 8300HDC + ODN combination, I was able to select a power on option called POWER ON NUMERIC.

This was an important option as it allowed a discrete ON code to be sent to the box. My Universal MRX980 would simply send a "1" (or any other number the user desires) to turn the box on. (The off code is a discrete code). That menu option is not available with the MDN version of Naviagator. My options now are to simply leave the box on at all times or to mannually turn it off and on.

As I understand it, the SA boxes do not have discrete ON codes, so the work around was to use the POWER ON NUMERIC option the software provided. If anyone has any information to the contrary, I'd really like to know about it. Alternatively, if anyone knows how to access additional menu options in the MDN version of Navigator, I'd appreciate hearing about that as well.

One final note...the picture quality is definately not up to par. With Passport I had a Pass-Through option that sent an unmodified signal to my AVR or display. That option is gone with Navigator, and I suspect the signal is not being passed through cleanly. Both my AVR (Denon AVP H1HD) and my display (Pioneer Elite 151FD) are far better suited for upconversion than the Scientific Atlanta box. If in fact a Pass-Through option is not available, then this will be the final straw for me.

I'd prefer to stay a TWC customer and would even be willing to perpetually "rent" their equipment in spite of the shift to a much less elegant software interface...but at this point, it seems they are making it incredibly difficult for me to do so.

One final note...the picture quality is definately not up to par. With Passport I had a Pass-Through option that sent an unmodified signal to my AVR or display. That option is gone with Navigator, and I suspect the signal is not being passed through cleanly. Both my AVR (Denon AVP H1HD) and my display (Pioneer Elite 151FD) are far better suited for upconversion than the Scientific Atlanta box. If in fact a Pass-Through option is not available, then this will be the final straw for me.

It's not called "pass-through", but the same result can be obtained by going into Settings\Display\Output Resolution and turning on all resolutions EXCEPT 480p. This will pass all source resolutions out of the box with no scaling.

Time Warner - Kansas City has been calling subscribers about an "upgrade" coming down the pipes soon (probably overnight tonight or tomorrow), warning of multiple reboots, don't turn the box off, etc.

I wonder what kind of carnage we will wake to find.......I'm sure they can find a way to make Navigator worse.....

It happened last night, I now have 3.1.3_2 on my box. I wonder if that means the Samsung DVR's will be available in Kansas City soon?

It happened last night, I now have 3.1.3_2 on my box. I wonder if that means the Samsung DVR's will be available in Kansas City soon?

WOW... and I thought Charlotte and NYC were the last stragglers to get 3.1.3_2. That's the latest general release ODN version we know of, but there was little or no noticeable difference from 3.1.0_11, which was the previous general release version.

How do you get to the settings to see what version of Passport you have?

Any hints to do a warm reboot? I read here..... Hold down the VOL+ and VOL- box TOGETHER and as you are holding them down, press the INFO key. Release all keys when the box starts to reboot. (It should be either instantaneous or within about 5-10 seconds.) but nothing happens.

Thanks

My 8300HD DVR was loaded with Navigator last night (Greensboro NC). I have two questions:

1. How do you access the diagnostics screen which I formerly hit the pause on the remote until the message light came on and then scrolled thru the 39 pages of info? I tried that today to see what ver of MDN I have but the message light never came on. I would like to determine which ver of Navigator I have.

2. Formerly (with SARA) when you had the guide on the screen you could easily change the day/date using the "B" key. I don't see such an option with Navigator. It looks like you just scroll thru the whole 24 hours to get to the next day. Is there a better way to get to the next day?

thanks (so far I am unimpressed) yes it's prettier but I was satisfied with SARA for what I used it for. A better search function would have been nice but that was my only complaint.

My 8300HD DVR was loaded with Navigator last night (Greensboro NC). I have two questions:

1. How do you access the diagnostics screen which I formerly hit the pause on the remote until the message light came on and then scrolled thru the 39 pages of info? I tried that today to see what ver of MDN I have but the message light never came on. I would like to determine which ver of Navigator I have.

2. Formerly (with SARA) when you had the guide on the screen you could easily change the day/date using the "B" key. I don't see such an option with Navigator. It looks like you just scroll thru the whole 24 hours to get to the next day. Is there a better way to get to the next day?

thanks (so far I am unimpressed) yes it's prettier but I was satisfied with SARA for what I used it for. A better search function would have been nice but that was my only complaint.


Hold down the [Select] button till the Mail light comes on, then press [Down].
You can skip ahead or back in the guide by full days by entering a number 1-6 and then hitting either [Right] to jump forwards that number of days or [Left] to jump backwards.

Well, that really does suck... any chance you can get the ODN version number from him?

Let us not forget that MDN -21 had and then lost this function as well.

I had bought some TWC remotes off ebay that have the DAY +/- button which makes scrolling days in the guide easy. I think I paid like $25 for two.

I had bought some TWC remotes off ebay that have the DAY +/- button which makes scrolling days in the guide easy. I think I paid like $25 for two.

Yes, the TWC remotes have that... but you still have to scroll day by day. For more than a day or two it's easier to directly jump to the day. Also, most universal/programmable remotes don't have dedicated Day + / Day - keys like the TW remotes have... I find it easier to use the direct jump method always, even for a one day jump, rather than navigate to to the custom button page with the Day +/- buttons. There are more often used buttons I'd rather have on the first/default custom button page.

Yes, the TWC remotes have that... but you still have to scroll day by day. For more than a day or two it's easier to directly jump to the day. Also, most universal/programmable remotes don't have dedicated Day + / Day - keys like the TW remotes have... I find it easier to use the direct jump method always, even for a one day jump, rather than navigate to to the custom button page with the Day +/- buttons. There are more often used buttons I'd rather have on the first/default custom button page.

Isn't there a trick to day scrolling where you can bring up the IPG and than press the number of days you want to go and than press the right arrow key? I think that works in both Passport and Navigator.

Jack

How do you get to the settings to see what version of Passport you have?

Any hints to do a warm reboot? I read here..... Hold down the VOL+ and VOL- box TOGETHER and as you are holding them down, press the INFO key. Release all keys when the box starts to reboot. (It should be either instantaneous or within about 5-10 seconds.) but nothing happens.

Thanks

The easiest way is to ask for your division's Diagnostic Channel on the board to find the version that you have. (At least for Navigator, not sure about Passport.) Than use the page+/- key to find software version. I never go to the long diagnostic pages for techs only anymore. Three people I know did that and it messed up their boxes.

On Passport: The Warm Reboot was to press and hold in the Power Button until the word "Boot" shows on the display. Some versions of Navigator do this now too, but you have to hold the button in for a longer period of time.

On Navigator: The Warm Reboot that I use and very rarely have I needed it since we got our cable lines replaced is by holding down the Vol+/Vol- button together. Than as you are doing that, press Info. The box should reboot within 10 seconds, sometimes immediately.

Jack

Isn't there a trick to day scrolling where you can bring up the IPG and than press the number of days you want to go and than press the right arrow key? I think that works in both Passport and Navigator.

Jack



Hold down the [Select] button till the Mail light comes on, then press [Down].
You can skip ahead or back in the guide by full days by entering a number 1-6 and then hitting either [right] to jump forwards that number of days or [left] to jump backwards.


:p;)

How do you get to the settings to see what version of Passport you have?

Any hints to do a warm reboot? I read here..... Hold down the VOL+ and VOL- box TOGETHER and as you are holding them down, press the INFO key. Release all keys when the box starts to reboot. (It should be either instantaneous or within about 5-10 seconds.) but nothing happens.

Thanks

Sorry Gail,

I misread your question. Try holding the power button in for a good 20 seconds to see if that does it.

Jack

Isn't there a trick to day scrolling where you can bring up the IPG and than press the number of days you want to go and than press the right arrow key? I think that works in both Passport and Navigator.

Jack

Yup, detailed by jcalabria above! Didn't really need that in Passport because going day to day was almost instantaneous, while under MDN there is a BIG delay for each day.

Thank you Jack, I am in South Carolina. Hopefully someone here knows our diagnostic channel. I will also ask in our local thread.

As for the warm reboot, I just tried the power method too and it did not work. I think the problem is the universal remote I have. I will try to find the old TWC remote and see if either of the 2 ways recommended work.

Gail

WOW... and I thought Charlotte and NYC were the last stragglers to get 3.1.3_2. That's the latest general release ODN version we know of, but there was little or no noticeable difference from 3.1.0_11, which was the previous general release version.

SoCal is still on v3.1.1_3.

The easiest way is to ask for your division's Diagnostic Channel on the board to find the version that you have. (At least for Navigator, not sure about Passport.) Than use the page+/- key to find software version. I never go to the long diagnostic pages for techs only anymore. Three people I know did that and it messed up their boxes.

Just looking at the numbers won't mess anything up... there are a few places that one can actively engage in changing numbers... long as you don't try that, there's not much to go wrong.

On Passport: The Warm Reboot was to press and hold in the Power Button until the word "Boot" shows on the display. Some versions of Navigator do this now too, but you have to hold the button in for a longer period of time.

I always much prefer a cold boot... the pull the plug variety. In general, some forms of memory corruption are only solved that way.

Does anybody in the Kansas City market know what channel the diagnostics are on? I would hate to mess up my box looking at some stupid data.

Hold down the [Select] button till the Mail light comes on, then press [Down].
You can skip ahead or back in the guide by full days by entering a number 1-6 and then hitting either [Right] to jump forwards that number of days or [Left] to jump backwards.


thanks I knew there had to be a way ...

Thank you Jack, I am in South Carolina. Hopefully someone here knows our diagnostic channel. I will also ask in our local thread.

As for the warm reboot, I just tried the power method too and it did not work. I think the problem is the universal remote I have. I will try to find the old TWC remote and see if either of the 2 ways recommended work.

Gail

You need to press and hold the power button on the cable box, not your remote.

Does anybody in the Kansas City market know what channel the diagnostics are on? I would hate to mess up my box looking at some stupid data.

Take a peek at your favorite channel setup page... investigate any channels listed (by directly entering the channel number) that don't normally show up in your guide and/or get passed over with a normal channel up/down. You can discover many test, diagnostics and other "special" channels this way.

thanks

You need to press and hold the power button on the cable box, not your remote.

Got the dreaded Navigator update last night here in SW High Point...
Besides the obvious (prior discussed) issues with this release, I have noticed that sports channels (ESPNHD, ESPN2HD in particular) look awful. Anyone else experience this? Also, is there a way to stretch the program guide to fill a 16x9 display?
Thanks for the insight...

Also, is there a way to stretch the program guide to fill a 16x9 display?

Not in the version we have. Unless you do it manually with the TV aspect controls.

Not in the version we have. Unless you do it manually with the TV aspect controls.

...and those of us with Samsungs that DO stretch the guide (no choice) wish it could be shown in its native 4:3 unstretched format, lol.

It's not called "pass-through", but the same result can be obtained by going into Settings\Display\Output Resolution and turning on all resolutions EXCEPT 480p. This will pass all source resolutions out of the box with no scaling.
Ahh...thanks! My initial inspection of that dialog screen had me thinking only one radio button choice could be selected.

Regarding my hopes for restoring the Power On Numeric Option...do you think there's a chance I might be able to activate it by accessing settings via the Diagnostics Channel?

I am able to bring up the diagnositc status pages. I watched a tech check the status pages once in order to locate the diagnostics channel number, so I'm hopeful I can deduce what it is from the status pages also. Not quite sure what the key combinations are with MDN for gaining access from there, but it may be posted up thread.

However, if it's likely that the power on numeric option can't be activated from there, I'd probably best not fool around with it. As somone else mentioned, I have concerns that I could mess up other settings.

Got the dreaded Navigator update last night here in SW High Point...
Besides the obvious (prior discussed) issues with this release, I have noticed that sports channels (ESPNHD, ESPN2HD in particular) look awful. Anyone else experience this? Thanks for the insight...

In terms of looking awful can you be more specific in terms of what is happening with the picture? Are you getting freezing? No picture? Break-ups in audio or video? Pixiation?

Sometimes when channels are added, or their is a big software update like the change to a new guide, you will experience issues with picture or sound for a few days to a week as issues are worked out with the new system. Did your division also recently add new channels, particularly any new HD channels? That and the new guide could be a combination of factors for the break-up.

If the problem has not cleared up within say 7 days. I would call and specifically request that an In House Technician, (not an independent contractor) come out and check your cable line and test for signal strength. Ask him to do this before replacing the box, especially if you have a DVR and a lot of things recorded on it. You will lose all recordings in a box swap. Make sure you state the problem is only on a few channels.

If the problem is only related to those channels above, wait for five days minimum. But than call.

Jack

Upgrade came through last night here in High Point, NC. The most annoying thing I've noticed is that when I'm flipping through the channels, the channels that I don't receive are showing up now. For example, although I don't subscribe to MGMHD, the channel is still tuned in when I scroll flip the channels. Before the upgrade it would just skip over any channels which I didn't receive. Is there a way to fix this? I tried using Parental Controls but it still tuned them in but said BLOCKED on the screen.

Upgrade came through last night here in High Point, NC. The most annoying thing I've noticed is that when I'm flipping through the channels, the channels that I don't receive are showing up now. For example, although I don't subscribe to MGMHD, the channel is still tuned in when I scroll flip the channels. Before the upgrade it would just skip over any channels which I didn't receive. Is there a way to fix this? I tried using Parental Controls but it still tuned them in but said BLOCKED on the screen.

Adam,

Not sure, but why do you want channels that you don't get that come in now, blocked? I could understand if it was one of the Adults Only PPV's or something that you might not want kids to see. But if your bill doesn't show that you get them, and you got them after the change-over to Navigator, why want them taken off?

What other stations do you have to which you don't subscribe?

Your box might have to be reactivated, which can take anywhere from several hours to a week. At that time, the channels to which you don't subscribe will have a "To Receive This Channel, Call Customer Care at (Number.)" I would just say, enjoy them while you can!

Jack

I heard yesterday that Time Warner might deploy a new 8600HDC unit in some areas instead of Samsung. Has anyone ever heard of this unit? Know anything about it? WOODY

I heard yesterday that Time Warner might deploy a new 8600HDC unit in some areas instead of Samsung. Has anyone ever heard of this unit? Know anything about it? WOODY


Cisco Explorer 8600HDC Series Brochure (http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps10318/ps10348/G1699B-8600_Series_One_Sheet_Jan2009.pdf)

Explorer 8652HDC (http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps8612/ps8613/7014687A.pdf) – Tunes digital and analog video, and includes the Ethernet and MoCA configurations as standard
Explorer 8650HDC (http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps8612/ps8613/7015624A.pdf) – Tunes digital and analog video
Explorer 8642HDC (http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps8612/ps8613/7015625A.pdf)– Tunes digital video only, and includes the Ethernet and MoCA configurations as standard
Explorer 8640HDC (http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps8612/ps8613/7015626A.pdf)– Tunes digital video only
Cisco Explorer 8600HDC Series Video Overview (http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps10318/ps10348/video_stb_overview.html)

Cisco Overview of Current STB & DVR Models (http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps10318/ps10348/09_JAN_G1716B_Next_Gen_Set-top-AAG.pdf)

Adam,

Not sure, but why do you want channels that you don't get that come in now, blocked? I could understand if it was one of the Adults Only PPV's or something that you might not want kids to see. But if your bill doesn't show that you get them, and you got them after the change-over to Navigator, why want them taken off?

What other stations do you have to which you don't subscribe?

Your box might have to be reactivated, which can take anywhere from several hours to a week. At that time, the channels to which you don't subscribe will have a "To Receive This Channel, Call Customer Care at (Number.)" I would just say, enjoy them while you can!

Jack

Sorry, I wasn't clear in my original post. I'm not receiving the channels. They have the "Press To Buy" button on them but they're not skipped when I'm changing channels. Previously, when I changed channels, any channel that I didn't subscribe to would be skipped completely. It's just annoying that they now show up making it easier to accidentally hit the buy button. Is there a way to hide them?

Sorry, I wasn't clear in my original post. I'm not receiving the channels. They have the "Press To Buy" button on them but they're not skipped when I'm changing channels. Previously, when I changed channels, any channel that I didn't subscribe to would be skipped completely. It's just annoying that they now show up making it easier to accidentally hit the buy button. Is there a way to hide them?

I don't believe that I have ever seen a "Buy" button on a tier/subscription channel such as your MGM-HD example. All it says is to call customer service to subscribe, as Jack described.

That aside, I do not believe that there is any way to avoid non-subscribed channels during a simple up/down channel scan, which is why I either scan using using the FAV button and/or peruse the Favorites section of the guide.

It has always been that way on Navigator, and as best I can remember it was that way when I had a Passport (non-DVR) box in the past. I'm sure that TW looks at it as a chance to remind you of what your missing... just another no-effort guerrilla marketing opportunity.

Cisco Explorer 8600HDC Series Brochure (http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps10318/ps10348/G1699B-8600_Series_One_Sheet_Jan2009.pdf)

Explorer 8652HDC (http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps8612/ps8613/7014687A.pdf) – Tunes digital and analog video, and includes the Ethernet and MoCA configurations as standard
Explorer 8650HDC (http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps8612/ps8613/7015624A.pdf) – Tunes digital and analog video
Explorer 8642HDC (http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps8612/ps8613/7015625A.pdf)– Tunes digital video only, and includes the Ethernet and MoCA configurations as standard
Explorer 8640HDC (http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps8612/ps8613/7015626A.pdf)– Tunes digital video only
Cisco Explorer 8600HDC Series Video Overview (http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps10318/ps10348/video_stb_overview.html)

Cisco Overview of Current STB & DVR Models (http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps10318/ps10348/09_JAN_G1716B_Next_Gen_Set-top-AAG.pdf)

I belive it was the 8642HDC that I heard about. Why would they deploy this unit in some areas instead of Samsung. Just to keep Cisco happy with them is only reason I can think of. Maybe they do not want all of their eggs (boxes) in one basket in case of problems.Maybe the 500 gb hard drive of the Cisco unit is appealing. WOODY

I had to exchange my SA3250HD (sound problem) at TW I was offered SA3250HD, SA 4240HDC or SAMSUNG # ???.

Which one of these is the way to go?

HH

A little more information. My neighbor who spoke to a TWC field rep confirmed the 8642HDC info. He also was told it will have a 500 meg hard drive. Do not know what areas will get them because I heard Samsung after the new year here. . Maybe South Carolina is getting thm. That is just my conjecter. WOODY

I had to exchange my SA3250HD (sound problem) at TW I was offered SA3250HD, SA 4240HDC or SAMSUNG # ???.

Which one of these is the way to go?

HH

At this point until the bugs are completely worked out I would go with the 4240HDC and trade it for a Samsung in about 4 months. WOODY

Cisco Explorer 8600HDC Series Brochure (http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps10318/ps10348/G1699B-8600_Series_One_Sheet_Jan2009.pdf)

Ah, good links. BUT, they seem to mention the N word (next generation) a lot and that most likely conflicts with TWC's 2 generations ago STB strategy.

I belive it was the 8642HDC that I heard about. Why would they deploy this unit in some areas instead of Samsung. Just to keep Cisco happy with them is only reason I can think of. WOODY

Yep... keeping two vendors options available is usually a good idea... gives TW an alternate supply pipeline if something goes awry with one of them, and they get to keep the vendors pitted against one another for pricing and support issues. Threatening to go with 8600s is enough to get Samsung to jump through hoops to help resolve the outstanding issues with the 3090/3270 boxes (although at least some of those "issues" likely belong to the Navigator side of things).

Sorry, I wasn't clear in my original post. I'm not receiving the channels. They have the "Press To Buy" button on them but they're not skipped when I'm changing channels. Previously, when I changed channels, any channel that I didn't subscribe to would be skipped completely. It's just annoying that they now show up making it easier to accidentally hit the buy button. Is there a way to hide them?

Through the current generation and previous generation of software, I have never been able to skip over unavailable channels (maybe that was a SARA thing??). I try to avoid doing that, but at times I see a listing for a movie that interests me and hit SEL too quickly, so I see the "you must subscribe" screen come up.

Yep... keeping two vendors options available is usually a good idea... gives TW an alternate supply pipeline if something goes awry with one of them, and they get to keep the vendors pitted against one another for pricing and support issues. Threatening to go with 8600s is enough to get Samsung to jump through hoops to help resolve the outstanding issues with the 3090/3270 boxes (although at least some of those "issues" likely belong to the Navigator side of things).

Let us not forget that it seems with the 3270, TWC has decided to eliminate any PIP function.

Let us not forget that it seems with the 3270, TWC has decided to eliminate any PIP function.

Not forgotten, but we only have conjecture as to whether that was a TW or a Samsung decision.