Not forgotten, but we only have conjecture as to whether that was a TW or a Samsung decision.

True, but I SERIOUSLY doubt it's Samsung. TWC certainly has a history of removing capabilities while adjusting pricing upwards (leaving the price the same but taking away a functionality to me IS a de facto price increase)... while I have never, ever known of Samsung doing anything similar.

Not to mention I WAS kind of surprised so many AVSers seemed to not care so much about losing PIP. I COULD see that in the general population, but among those who probably have more understanding of the how and why to be ambivalent... can't really figure THAT out!

True, but I SERIOUSLY doubt it's Samsung. TWC certainly has a history of removing capabilities while adjusting pricing upwards (leaving the price the same but taking away a functionality to me IS a de facto price increase)... while I have never, ever known of Samsung doing anything similar.

Not to mention I WAS kind of surprised so many AVSers seemed to not care so much about losing PIP. I COULD see that in the general population, but among those who probably have more understanding of the how and why to be ambivalent... can't really figure THAT out!


The BCM7405 can support PIP but maybe not Dual HD PIP so they decided to remove it. The 7405 can do dual buffers but for some reason they are just using a single buffer. It could be a Samsung decision for all I know. Bob Barlow said that this type of STB doesn't support PIP. Maybe it could be software, who knows.

Not to mention I WAS kind of surprised so many AVSers seemed to not care so much about losing PIP. I COULD see that in the general population, but among those who probably have more understanding of the how and why to be ambivalent... can't really figure THAT out!

To be honest I don't remember the last time I used PIP on the 8300. The PiP Swap button was another story however

I use PiP on my computer monitor while working to view video, but rarely when I'm watching TV. My Sony TV has a fabulous PaP display and I can't remember the last time I used it either. Maybe it's mostly useful if you are sports fan?

Until the issue of PiP came up I didn't even realize the Moxi box I've been using for two weeks doesn't have it either. It really doesn't need it though. You can skip through commercials in one press and if you are forced into watching commercials you can read news and entertainment onscreen while the ads are running.

...
Not to mention I WAS kind of surprised so many AVSers seemed to not care so much about losing PIP. I COULD see that in the general population, but among those who probably have more understanding of the how and why to be ambivalent... can't really figure THAT out!

If you watch only recorded stuff, PIP has absolutely no value for you. It is hard to get worked up about a loss of a feature that you have never used. Of course, removing features that somebody was using is bad, but it is not easy to be all up in arms just for the sake of making a point about feature removal.

Not to mention I WAS kind of surprised so many AVSers seemed to not care so much about losing PIP. I COULD see that in the general population, but among those who probably have more understanding of the how and why to be ambivalent... can't really figure THAT out!I never used it when I had it, and TiVo doesn't have it. As long as I can PAUSE one tuner and swap to view another, I'm cool :).

In terms of looking awful can you be more specific in terms of what is happening with the picture? Are you getting freezing? No picture? Break-ups in audio or video? Pixiation?

Sometimes when channels are added, or their is a big software update like the change to a new guide, you will experience issues with picture or sound for a few days to a week as issues are worked out with the new system. Did your division also recently add new channels, particularly any new HD channels? That and the new guide could be a combination of factors for the break-up.


Not quite pixelation but almost like the display cannot keep up with the fast moving signal (even though the refresh rate is 120 Hz). When watching basketball, the floor just doesn't look right. Sorry about the poor explanation but it's hard to describe. This just started with the new firmware. No new channels have been added to my knowledge. I will contact TWC if it does not improve...thank you for the replys.

Not quite pixelation but almost like the display cannot keep up with the fast moving signal (even though the refresh rate is 120 Hz). When watching basketball, the floor just doesn't look right. Sorry about the poor explanation but it's hard to describe. This just started with the new firmware. No new channels have been added to my knowledge. I will contact TWC if it does not improve...thank you for the replys.


Are you sure you have the box's output resolutions set correctly in Settings\Display\Output Resolution? It seems that a few SARA conversion folks are either ignoring or misinterpreting how these settings work.

Typically there would be three reasonable choices:
Turn ON all resolutions on EXCEPT 480p. This essentially bypasses the scaler in the box (same as "through" on SARA) and passes all resolutions to the TV in their source-native resolution. This typically provides the best PQ, but at the expense of delays when changing channels because the TV and/or AVR must resync to the changing resolutions.
Turn OFF all resolutions EXCEPT 1080i. This will eliminate the delays during channel changes since only a single resolution will be output from the box. There is a hit in PQ, though, due to running scaling and interlace/deinterlace operations twice.
A variation on #2 would be to turn on 720p in addition to 1080i (still leaving 480i/480p off). This would at least keep your HD signals going to the TV in source-native resolution... preventing the non-interlaced 720p signals from going through the awful process of being interlaced in the box only to be de-interlaced at the the display. You would still have channel change delays between 720p and 1080i sources, but you could still reduce the channel change delay when changing to/from SD channels.

That aside, I do not believe that there is any way to avoid non-subscribed channels during a simple up/down channel scan, which is why I either scan using using the FAV button and/or peruse the Favorites section of the guide.

It has always been that way on Navigator, and as best I can remember it was that way when I had a Passport (non-DVR) box in the past. I'm sure that TW looks at it as a chance to remind you of what your missing... just another no-effort guerrilla marketing opportunity.
My Passport did allow me to mark off those channels I wanted to skip in a menu item where you could go down the list and put a checkmark next to those to skip. I remember everytime they moved channles or added channels I would check the list to make sure I was not skipping something I now had available. /Dan

Are you sure you have the box's output resolutions set correctly in Settings\Display\Output Resolution? It seems that a few SARA conversion folks are either ignoring or misinterpreting how these settings work.

Typically there would be three reasonable choices:
Turn ON all resolutions on EXCEPT 480p. This essentially bypasses the scaler in the box (same as "through" on SARA) and passes all resolutions to the TV in their source-native resolution. This typically provides the best PQ, but at the expense of delays when changing channels because the TV and/or AVR must resync to the changing resolutions.
Turn OFF all resolutions EXCEPT 1080i. This will eliminate the delays during channel changes since only a single resolution will be output from the box. There is a hit in PQ, though, due to running scaling and interlace/deinterlace operations twice.
A variation on #2 would be to turn on 720p in addition to 1080i (still leaving 480i/480p off). This would at least keep your HD signals going to the TV in source-native resolution... preventing the non-interlaced 720p signals from going through the awful process of being interlaced in the box only to be de-interlaced at the the display. You would still have channel change delays between 720p and 1080i sources, but you could still reduce the channel change delay when changing to/from SD channels.



Aside from the resolution changes, the overall picture quality has been severely reduced. They are adding to many channels to their current bandwidth capacity and compressing the hell out of the channels. I don't have the know how to measure the mbits being sent per channel, but I guarantee you it is not what it should be. I remember everyone use to say Discover HD Theatre made the cable companies transmit their channel with a minimum mbit range, but even that channel looks like it is lacking quality.

Aside from the resolution changes, the overall picture quality has been severely reduced. They are adding to many channels to their current bandwidth capacity and compressing the hell out of the channels. I don't have the know how to measure the mbits being sent per channel, but I guarantee you it is not what it should be. I remember everyone use to say Discover HD Theatre made the cable companies transmit their channel with a minimum mbit range, but even that channel looks like it is lacking quality.

You may be correct, but they did not likely do that at the exact moment that your box was 'gatored... if the PQ changed suddenly and concurently with the upgrade, its not (just) cramming more channels into the proverbial cable blivet (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=blivet). Either something went awry in the update process or there is a setting askew.

BTW... the major revamping of QAM packages coming out of the Raleigh master headend (which feeds the entire state) ocurred back in Sept/Oct (at least for the Charlotte Division QAMs)... if you saw changes due to reduced bit rates it likely would have occurred then, although there were not noticeable changes here in Charlotte.

Let us not forget that it seems with the 3270, TWC has decided to eliminate any PIP function.

From what I understand PIP ia available with all Cisco DVR boxes. May be this is a way of TWC putting pressure on Samsung to fix the PIP problem But to be honest PIP was a feature I rarely used.. The copy to vcr or dvd burner is the one feature from SARA I really miss. WOODY

Are you sure you have the box's output resolutions set correctly in Settings\Display\Output Resolution? It seems that a few SARA conversion folks are either ignoring or misinterpreting how these settings work.

Typically there would be three reasonable choices:
Turn ON all resolutions on EXCEPT 480p. This essentially bypasses the scaler in the box (same as "through" on SARA) and passes all resolutions to the TV in their source-native resolution. This typically provides the best PQ, but at the expense of delays when changing channels because the TV and/or AVR must resync to the changing resolutions.
Turn OFF all resolutions EXCEPT 1080i. This will eliminate the delays during channel changes since only a single resolution will be output from the box. There is a hit in PQ, though, due to running scaling and interlace/deinterlace operations twice.
A variation on #2 would be to turn on 720p in addition to 1080i (still leaving 480i/480p off). This would at least keep your HD signals going to the TV in source-native resolution... preventing the non-interlaced 720p signals from going through the awful process of being interlaced in the box only to be de-interlaced at the the display. You would still have channel change delays between 720p and 1080i sources, but you could still reduce the channel change delay when changing to/from SD channels.


You may be correct, but they did not likely do that at the exact moment that your box was 'gatored... if the PQ changed suddenly and concurently with the upgrade, its not (just) cramming more channels into the proverbial cable blivet. Either something went awry in the update process or there is a setting askew.

BTW... the major revamping of QAM packages coming out of the Raleigh master headend (which feeds the entire state) ocurred back in Sept/Oct (at least for the Charlotte Division QAMs)... if you saw changes due to reduced bit rates it likely would have occurred then, although there were not noticeable changes here in Charlotte.

I think the other gentleman said he felt it was because of the gatored box. I have seen a steady decline over the past few months. Whether this is in relation to the QAM changes you noted above who knows, but I do know quite a few channels have been added to the area in those few months time. I am happy that the changes weren't as bad for you in the Charlotte area.

I think the other gentleman said he felt it was because of the gatored box. I have seen a steady decline over the past few months. Whether this is in relation to the QAM changes you noted above who knows, but I do know quite a few channels have been added to the area in those few months time. I am happy that the changes weren't as bad for you in the Charlotte area.

Sorry for the mixup:o.

Sorry for the mixup:o.

No worries mate :)

The 3270 now has this issue where pressing stop on the remote simply pauses the VOD selection. Rebooting fixes it but it's probably temporary. I hope the next firmware fixes it. San Diego is expecting a new firmware for all 32xx boxes.

I think the other gentleman said he felt it was because of the gatored box. I have seen a steady decline over the past few months. Whether this is in relation to the QAM changes you noted above who knows, but I do know quite a few channels have been added to the area in those few months time. I am happy that the changes weren't as bad for you in the Charlotte area.

I'm in Charlotte, but unlike jcalabria I have noticed a decline in the PQ over the past few months. I specifically mentioned the increased block artifacting and mosquito noise on ESPN HD in both the Charlotte thread and the Time Warner HDTV thread.

In addition we switched from 3Mb DSL to 7Mb Road Runner about 10 days ago and have noticed no difference in speed. In fact we have seen really SLOW periods on Road Runner that we never had with DSL.

All in all, I'm not very satisfied with TWC right now between the poor picture quality, 2002 vintage Navigator IPG and subpar internet speeds. Maybe it will take a couple of day long outage for her to get over her aversion to a satellite dish.

but it is not easy to be all up in arms just for the sake of making a point about feature removal.

Maybe it's just me, but if a feature I rarely used got removed, I'd certainly be on the side of those who are upset... and just as upset.

Every "I don't care if PIP goes away" justifies them dropping features at least some of us have grown very used to.

Are you sure you have the box's output resolutions set correctly in Settings\Display\Output Resolution? It seems that a few SARA conversion folks are either ignoring or misinterpreting how these settings work.

Typically there would be three reasonable choices:
Turn ON all resolutions on EXCEPT 480p. This essentially bypasses the scaler in the box (same as "through" on SARA) and passes all resolutions to the TV in their source-native resolution. This typically provides the best PQ, but at the expense of delays when changing channels because the TV and/or AVR must resync to the changing resolutions.
Turn OFF all resolutions EXCEPT 1080i. This will eliminate the delays during channel changes since only a single resolution will be output from the box. There is a hit in PQ, though, due to running scaling and interlace/deinterlace operations twice.
A variation on #2 would be to turn on 720p in addition to 1080i (still leaving 480i/480p off). This would at least keep your HD signals going to the TV in source-native resolution... preventing the non-interlaced 720p signals from going through the awful process of being interlaced in the box only to be de-interlaced at the the display. You would still have channel change delays between 720p and 1080i sources, but you could still reduce the channel change delay when changing to/from SD channels.


I've done both 1 and 2 and for the life of me I can't say I really saw ANY difference. AND when doing 1, I did NOT see much of a slow-down; BUT I very much DID when looking at a Sony display as opposed to my Sammie.

You may be correct, but they did not likely do that at the exact moment that your box was 'gatored

Speaking of which, it seems MANY noticed a PQ change when they got 'gatored. As I did. Most felt it was a change for the better. However, my judgement was that it was more about increased contrast. Generally speaking, that is what is really going on when people feel the PQ has more "pop" to it. Not the same as, but in the same kind of ballpark as "torch mode." AND much the same as going from a non-reflective to a highly reflective screen. It's SEEMS to be sharper and have more pop... most love it, but unfortunately, not I!

From what I understand PIP ia available with all Cisco DVR boxes. May be this is a way of TWC putting pressure on Samsung to fix the PIP problem. WOODY

Pretty much everything I've read says this is very much a decision on TWC's part. The 3090 seems to have a perfectly functioning PIP... hard to imagine that the 3270 reverted backwards!

In addition we switched from 3Mb DSL to 7Mb Road Runner about 10 days ago and have noticed no difference in speed. In fact we have seen really SLOW periods on Road Runner that we never had with DSL.

Judging this on general web browsing can be problematic. Some of the websites I visit seem to load at modem speeds... despite a 10Mb service I now have. Trying to load one single page CAN take forever because most folks don't realize that before that page actually loads, data (ads) must be drawn from maybe half a dozen to a dozen other servers.

Some news sites CAN take almost a full minute+ to load. One site I visit is all nicely formatted text and loads instantaneously. The news site must contact about a dozen other ad servers, the text one has a few ads, but they are served from that site.

If you are concerned, I'd suggest you hit the following:

http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/

AND do NOT choose a the city you are in or one that is really close to you. Try and hit it at a few different times each day and do that over a few days. THAT will give you a much clearer picture of what kind of service you are getting.

Maybe it's just me, but if a feature I rarely used got removed, I'd certainly be on the side of those who are upset... and just as upset.

Every "I don't care if PIP goes away" justifies them dropping features at least some of us have grown very used to.

I'd be completely amazed if they looked here for justification.

Pretty much everything I've read says this is very much a decision on TWC's part. The 3090 seems to have a perfectly functioning PIP... hard to imagine that the 3270 reverted backwards!Actually, that makes it sound more like a Samsung problem, since I feel certain that exactly the same Navigator code gets pushed into all of the boxes, Samsung or Cisco. I'd imagine that the OCAP platform in the box offers a set of functions with which to do various things with the hardware, being all or a subset of a published API, and provides a method by which downloaded applications like Navigator can determine which of those standard functions is provided. Navigator would only be able to give you features for which the box it's running on has all of the pieces. For whatever reason, Samsung may well have provided all of the pieces necessary for PIP in the resident OCAP middleware on the 3090, but not in that firmware as shipped on the 3270.

Actually, that makes it sound more like a Samsung problem, since I feel certain that exactly the same Navigator code gets pushed into all of the boxes, Samsung or Cisco. I'd imagine that the OCAP platform in the box offers a set of functions with which to do various things with the hardware, being all or a subset of a published API, and provides a method by which downloaded applications like Navigator can determine which of those standard functions is provided. Navigator would only be able to give you features for which the box it's running on has all of the pieces. For whatever reason, Samsung may well have provided all of the pieces necessary for PIP in the resident OCAP middleware on the 3090, but not in that firmware as shipped on the 3270.

I believe that you are correct that the PiP is actually disabled somewhere within the 3270 itself... not in Navigator. However, the question is whether or not Samsung did that unilaterally or if TW was involved in that decision (or even requested that Samsung remove it). I can't fathom that Samsung would make such a change without consulting the major (only?) buyer of the product.

PIP works fine on a 8300HDC with Navigator. I made sure last night after reading about the other box...

PIP works fine on a 8300HDC with Navigator. I made sure last night after reading about the other box...

It always has... works even better with the 3090 Samsungs because the 3090 has a 16:9 graphics engine and puts the PiP window out in the corners, which the 8300s can't do. Its the newer 3270 Samsung that is lacking PiP, which many feel is a step backwards... or at least a disheartening indication of how TW feels providing first rate features in their DVRs.

I believe that you are correct that the PiP is actually disabled somewhere within the 3270 itself... not in Navigator. However, the question is whether or not Samsung did that unilaterally or if TW was involved in that decision (or even requested that Samsung remove it). I can't fathom that Samsung would make such a change without consulting the major (only?) buyer of the product.
The new Cisco box the 8642HDC has a perfect working PIP on it. I am 100% sure on that because my cousin in Florida who is with Brighthouse just got one with Navigator on it. PIP works fine on it as does their external hard drive. Brighthouse seems to get things first and may be used as a stalking horse for TWC. The loss of PIP is most definitly a Samsung issue. WOODY

The new Cisco box the 8642HDC has a perfect working PIP on it. I am 100% sure on that because my cousin in Florida who is with Brighthouse just got one with Navigator on it. PIP works fine on it as does their external hard drive. Brighthouse seems to get things first and may be used as a stalking horse for TWC. The loss of PIP is most definitly a Samsung issue. WOODY

But TW probably has more pull with Samsung... Cisco has a few more non-TW customers than Samsung has.

There are BHN versions of the Samsung boxes.

SMT-H3050/BHN
SMT-H3050E/BHN
SMT-H3090/BHN
SMT-H3090B/BHN
SMT-H3260/BHN
SMT-H3270/BHN

The 3090 uses the BCM7400 while the 32xx boxes run the BCM7405. The 3050 runs an ARM chip. The E version could run a BCM7400 but it's likely runniARM chip. The 3090 and 32xx boxes run linux while the 3050 runs VX.Works. The Linux based boxes don't use 100 percent open source code. The stuff thats Open source they list but they have the right not to list proprietary cable specific code.

The new Cisco box the 8642HDC has a perfect working PIP on it. I am 100% sure on that because my cousin in Florida who is with Brighthouse just got one with Navigator on it. PIP works fine on it as does their external hard drive. Brighthouse seems to get things first and may be used as a stalking horse for TWC. The loss of PIP is most definitly a Samsung issue. WOODY

Woody, (or anyone)

Do you know if the new SA-8642 HDC has a bigger hard drive? Is it 500GB? The new Samsung 3270 has a 300GB hard drive, right?

Jack

The 3270 manual mentions 320 GB and only 320 GB. The Cisco 8642HDC can be had in 160 GB or 320 GB versions but a 500 GB model exists.

Woody, (or anyone)

Do you know if the new SA-8642 HDC has a bigger hard drive? Is it 500GB? The new Samsung 3270 has a 300GB hard drive, right?

Jack

500gb is what I hear Brighthouse is getting.

It always has... works even better with the 3090 Samsungs because the 3090 has a 16:9 graphics engine and puts the PiP window out in the corners, which the 8300s can't do. Its the newer 3270 Samsung that is lacking PiP, which many feel is a step backwards... or at least a disheartening indication of how TW feels providing first rate features in their DVRs.

Ah, another reason to see if I can get a 3090 in the most painless way!

While it's vaguely possible Samsung screwed up the PIP in the 3270, I seriously doubt it... it seems to have no issues on 3090s and seems to work perfectly in my 4 year old display. Not to mention I think hdtvfan2005 said he was told BY TWC they have no intentions of having PIP on that box (or words to that effect, don't remember the exact quote).

While it's vaguely possible Samsung screwed up the PIP in the 3270, I seriously doubt it... it seems to have no issues on 3090s and seems to work perfectly in my 4 year old display. Not to mention I think hdtvfan2005 said he was told BY TWC they have no intentions of having PIP on that box (or words to that effect, don't remember the exact quote).To my mind, there's nothing vague about it. It is inconceivable to me that they'd be loading a different version of the Navigator code into the 3270, or that Navigator would be testing the see whether it was running on the 3270 in order to purposefully not respond to the PIP commands, which is the only way that I could see that TWC could screw it up. The reason has to be internal to the 3270. The question is whether it's a bug on Samsung's side or something intentional as decided by either independently by Samsung or required by TWC. Why either would want to willfully remove that function if it could be made to work properly is beyond me.

hdtvfan2005's TWC contact is someone in management local to the San Diego area (I think that TWC San Diego and TWC Orange have the same management). There's a limit to how much he could know about this and probably to how much he could find out.

But, hey--believe what you want. If you want to vilify TWC for having taken away one of your favorite features on purpose for no reason, go right ahead. It's obviously just another terrorist act :D.

To my mind, there's nothing vague about it. It is inconceivable to me that they'd be loading a different version of the Navigator code into the 3270, or that Navigator would be testing the see whether it was running on the 3270 in order to purposefully not respond to the PIP commands, which is the only way that I could see that TWC could screw it up. The reason has to be internal to the 3270. The question is whether it's a bug on Samsung's side or something intentional as decided by either independently by Samsung or required by TWC. Why either would want to willfully remove that function if it could be made to work properly is beyond me.
...


It is possible (though not particularly likely) that 3270 requires different API for its PIP than the other boxes, and that TWC would not be bothered to add some code that tests if the usual API works, and if not, use the other kind. Again, I doubt very much that this is the case, but it is not inconcievable.

The 3270 manual only specifies 1 90 minute buffer which is why PIP wasn't implemented.

It is possible (though not particularly likely) that 3270 requires different API for its PIP than the other boxes, and that TWC would not be bothered to add some code that tests if the usual API works, and if not, use the other kind. Again, I doubt very much that this is the case, but it is not inconcievable.I don't think so. In a Java-based write-once/run-everywhere system like OCAP, there's a certain carefully chosen set of actions that you can ask the host to perform. That set of operations might be extended in the future, with some means by which an application could test for the availability of those extensions, but it wouldn't make sense for a piece of hardware to independently extend it, since no application would know how to use its API; the developers at Samsung would be aware of that.

It'd be nice if there were a spec-sheet for the SMT-H3270 online. I can find stuff for the 3090, but it's almost as if the 3270 (and 3260) were produced specifically for TWC.

The 3260 and 3270 also has a BHN version for Brighthouse subscribers. The manual has a spec sheet but it doesn't mention the CPU, Flash, and RAM configs.

It has a BCM7405 CPU, 256 MB of RAM, Dual 1 GHz all digital tuners, DSG, Legacy OOB, eSATA, USB, 320 GB HDD, HDMI, 64 MB Flash, Component, and Composite. No S-Video, Coax Audio, or RF Modulator. The 3270 has an extra USB port and is bigger than the 3260. Finally only 1 90 minute buffer.

The buffer is a software feature--it's not something that would be limited by hardware. There's no way that it could record two programs at once and not be able to buffer two programs at once, since the actions are largely indistinguishable. The buffer is just a set of allocated space on the HDD, just like a recording.

You're saying that the TWC manual for the SMT-3270 says that there's only one buffer? I found that manual online on Samsung's "e-Manual" site, but decided not to look at it because it suspiciously required installation of some kind of viewer (to examine an Acrobat file :rolleyes:). I think I'll go ahead and install it to have a look.

The buffer is a software feature--it's not something that would be limited by hardware. There's no way that it could record two programs at once and not be able to buffer two programs at once, since the actions are largely indistinguishable. The buffer is just a set of allocated space on the HDD, just like a recording.

You're saying that the TWC manual for the SMT-3270 says that there's only one buffer? I found that manual online on Samsung's "e-Manual" site, but decided not to look at it because it suspiciously required installation of some kind of viewer (to examine an Acrobat file :rolleyes:). I think I'll go ahead and install it to have a look.

Wasn't the original issue that Samsung took the PIP feature out of the SMT-3270 to make way for a bigger hard drive? At any rate, now we have the new SA-8600 series DVR's coming out that say, "See, you can have a bigger hard drive in the box AND PIP too." It will be interesting to see how Samsung responds to this.

I tend to agree with Riverside Guy. Even though I do not use PIP much at all, I know people that like it and I think people just assume that if they used it on a previous box that they could activate it on the remote and it would always be there.

Jack

The buffer is a software feature--it's not something that would be limited by hardware. There's no way that it could record two programs at once and not be able to buffer two programs at once, since the actions are largely indistinguishable. The buffer is just a set of allocated space on the HDD, just like a recording.

You're saying that the TWC manual for the SMT-3270 says that there's only one buffer? I found that manual online on Samsung's "e-Manual" site, but decided not to look at it because it suspiciously required installation of some kind of viewer (to examine an Acrobat file :rolleyes:). I think I'll go ahead and install it to have a look.

I have the Samsung manual for the 3270. It doesn't mention TWC and it's the same manual you would get from the Samsung e-manual site.

NYC has deployed the 320 GB 3090 and 3260 HD-STB.

How does the Navigator series recording feature handle failed recordings? Last week, I had several episodes of an old sitcom fail with like 3 or 12 minutes recorded. I have each showing set manually each week (see question # 2 below) so I was wondering what would have happened if I'd used the series recording option? If Navigator sees that the episode titled "XYZ" only recorded partially, will it reschedule/replace that by recording a second showing?

Do I remember correctly that someone said that there's no way to specify channels for series? In other words, if I'm recording all episodes of an old sitcom, the DVR will save any episode that comes on any channel, correct?

Thanks in advance for any help.

NYC has deployed the 320 GB 3090 and 3260 HD-STB.

They may have "deployed" them, but they are "unavailable." Neighbor 3 days ago was down there., he asked for one, they told him they got a couple, they got handed out quick, but no more are available. He got his from a large stack of 3090s, he hassled the guy to find one that didn't look too beat up.

It always has... works even better with the 3090 Samsungs because the 3090 has a 16:9 graphics engine and puts the PiP window out in the corners, which the 8300s can't do. Its the newer 3270 Samsung that is lacking PiP, which many feel is a step backwards... or at least a disheartening indication of how TW feels providing first rate features in their DVRs.
I thought I noticed an implication that Navigator was responsible, so I wanted to make sure. I also made note of which models to avoid when another 8300HDC goes bad, in case other models do end up available here...

I thought I noticed an implication that Navigator was responsible, so I wanted to make sure. I also made note of which models to avoid when another 8300HDC goes bad, in case other models do end up available here...

There has been discussion as to whether TW participated in the decision to decontent the the 3270 (it also lacks a few outputs that the 3090 has) or if it was a unilateral Samsung decision. It is highly unlikely that a working PiP in the 3270 has been disabled only for that model by Navigator (and by extrension, TW).


Others will certainly have different - and valid - opinions based on different priorities, but my personal preference order for currently available TW DVRs would be:

Samsung 3090
Samsumg 3270 (not available in my system)
Cisco/SA 8240/8300HDC
Cisco/SA 8300HD
I have a feeling that the 8600 series Cisco boxes would move to the top of that list should they ever become available in my system. Also, I don't think we have heard of any systems that have both 3090s and 3270s in widespread deployment within the same system.

There has been discussion as to whether TW participated in the decision to decontent the the 3270 (it also lacks a few outputs that the 3090 has) or if it was a unilateral Samsung decision. It is highly unlikely that a working PiP in the 3270 has been disabled only for that model by Navigator (and by extrension, TW).

It certainly is possible it has nothing to do with Navigator, but that TWC orders the boxes from Samsung with PIP disabled in some way.

I do agree that opinions (mine included) get formed based on things we read on AVS. And those "things" may not be as accurate as they could be.

BUT, in the grand scheme, it doesn't matter how or who, it's that a particular feature that many but not all use appears to not be present on the very latest DVR hardware TWC is using. As we rent from TWC, it's TWC who has the actual responsibility. If PIP is gone, it's TWC who is at fault (if the issue REALLY is Samsung, TWC should NOT accept any 3270s until it's fixed).

...if the issue REALLY is Samsung, TWC should NOT accept any 3270s until it's fixed.

I wonder, at least a little, if an unresponsive Samsung is part of the reason behind the rumblings about Cisco 8600s being considered by TW.

TWC could care less about PIP. It's hard to have PIP when there is only 1 buffer. The manual said it only had 1 buffer. Bob Barlow said that this box doesn't have it. Why get so worked up when it just doesn't have it. It was probably a Samsung decision not TWC's. Remember the 3260 shares the same SW as the 3270 so maybe thats why. For all I know the BCM7405 might not be able to do dual HD PIP or it might have had issues. I'm just reporting the facts.

TWC could care less about PIP. It's hard to have PIP when there is only 1 buffer. The manual said it only had 1 buffer. Bob Barlow said that this box doesn't have it. Why get so worked up when it just doesn't have it. It was probably a Samsung decision not TWC's. Remember the 3260 shares the same SW as the 3270 so maybe thats why. For all I know the BCM7405 might not be able to do dual HD PIP or it might have had issues. I'm just reporting the facts.

Whatever the view,

If you are sure you want PIP, just ask for an HDC box.

Jack

Got the dreaded Navigator update last night here in SW High Point...
Besides the obvious (prior discussed) issues with this release, I have noticed that sports channels (ESPNHD, ESPN2HD in particular) look awful. Anyone else experience this? Also, is there a way to stretch the program guide to fill a 16x9 display?
Thanks for the insight...

In terms of looking awful can you be more specific in terms of what is happening with the picture? Are you getting freezing? No picture? Break-ups in audio or video? Pixiation?

Sometimes when channels are added, or their is a big software update like the change to a new guide, you will experience issues with picture or sound for a few days to a week as issues are worked out with the new system. Did your division also recently add new channels, particularly any new HD channels? That and the new guide could be a combination of factors for the break-up.

If the problem has not cleared up within say 7 days. I would call and specifically request that an In House Technician, (not an independent contractor) come out and check your cable line and test for signal strength. Ask him to do this before replacing the box, especially if you have a DVR and a lot of things recorded on it. You will lose all recordings in a box swap. Make sure you state the problem is only on a few channels.

If the problem is only related to those channels above, wait for five days minimum. But than call.

Jack

So is it just my imagination...I successfully connected an eSATA drive and brought my DVR storage capacity from 96% full to 21% full. After the box rebooted, it seems that the channels that were not looking good (ESPN. etc.) are back to looking good again as they were before the upgrade. Would the fact that the DVR was full have something to do with the picture quality? Or maybe the box just needed to reboot a few times...:confused:

So is it just my imagination

Why would Navigator or eSata have anything to do with picture quality?

TWC said this is normal!!!

We watched a recorded show yesterday, when it was over I noticed that the channel we had been watching before the show recorded itself the whole time we watched the recorded show. So far not really a problem but ... if during the time we were watching the recorded show two different things started to record that were scheduled we would get a conflict message that we were trying to record 3 things. TWC said that is normal and is a problem but they have no plans to correct it. The reason is on SARA you were watching a channel when you watched a recording, in N you are not. N just plain *****!

On our 2nd HD set we have N but not a DVR box. When you turn it on you have to reset the volume controls every time you turn the set on. It also tends to come on with the loudest possible volume and it takes about 30 seconds or so to correct the problem. We had a couple of tech guys out and they said TWC is aware of the problem but have no plans to fix it. They said if you do not use an HDMI cable and use composite instead it might go away. So because of N i have to give up picture quality. N really does ****.

The tech support on the phone said the reason we have N is because so many people called in requesting it after seeing it somewhere else. I wonder who those people are? They didn't go to Lincoln, NE!

On our 2nd HD set we have N but not a DVR box. When you turn it on you have to reset the volume controls every time you turn the set on. It also tends to come on with the loudest possible volume and it takes about 30 seconds or so to correct the problem. We had a couple of tech guys out and they said TWC is aware of the problem but have no plans to fix it. They said if you do not use an HDMI cable and use composite instead it might go away. So because of N i have to give up picture quality. N really does ****.

The tech support on the phone said the reason we have N is because so many people called in requesting it after seeing it somewhere else. I wonder who those people are? They didn't go to Lincoln, NE!

I don't believe I ever saw either my 8300HDC or 3090 "forget" its volume setting, but I only tried the "Variable Output" setting briefly just to see if/how it worked. (I was actually rather surprised that the box even allowed variable output levels for any of the digital outputs.)

As a general practice, its never such a good idea to control volume at the source device (the box)... have you considered setting the box for fixed output and configuring your remote to control the volume at the TV or AVR? This is especially important if the box feeds an AVR... any DSP processing in the receiver can be effected when the input levels are varied. Better to give the processors the fixed line level input they are designed for and control the volume after the processors in the AVR, as intended.

I wonder, at least a little, if an unresponsive Samsung is part of the reason behind the rumblings about Cisco 8600s being considered by TW.

Indeed anything is possible... it COULD be Samsung. BUT, given both companies track records, I'd lean far towards TWC being the real culprit. As a major CE manufacturer, I just can't see Samsung deciding to unilaterally drop a feature they have LONG supported in all their equipment.

Having only a single buffer only means that someone decided to drop PIP, it doesn't point to whom is responsible. Even so, given that Craptigator seemingly not supporting the buffer when the box is off, being longer isn't really much of a feature.

I don't think any of us KNOWS for sure, we make educated guesses based on what we know. That is all I'm doing here.. just trying to show the logic I use to reach my conclusions. Not to mention I would find it not so hard to believe TWC said to Samsung they HAD to drop the box price, Samsung said maybe drop PIP, TWC said absolutely.

I don't believe I ever saw either my 8300HDC or 3090 "forget" its volume setting, but I only tried the "Variable Output" setting briefly just to see if/how it worked. (I was actually rather surprised that the box even allowed variable output levels for any of the digital outputs.)

I think the variable output IS only for analog. When I got 'gatored, I checked several things... one was to set variable output to ON... it made no difference as I only use a digital connection from the STB to my AVR.

As a general practice, its never such a good idea to control volume at the source device (the box)... have you considered setting the box for fixed output and configuring your remote to control the volume at the TV or AVR? This is especially important if the box feeds an AVR... any DSP processing in the receiver can be effected when the input levels are varied. Better to give the processors the fixed line level input they are designed for and control the volume after the processors in the AVR, as intended.

In general I agree... mostly because it USED to be one can try and set the source to the least noise "level" of volume. BUT, I'm not positive, but does a digital audio output NOT have any specific "volume?" I could be wrong, but I thought the D/A converter simply fed audio TO the amplifier, whereas the potentiometer (volume control) served to reduce the volume to a non distortion range.

On our 2nd HD set we have N but not a DVR box. When you turn it on you have to reset the volume controls every time you turn the set on. It also tends to come on with the loudest possible volume and it takes about 30 seconds or so to correct the problem. We had a couple of tech guys out and they said TWC is aware of the problem but have no plans to fix it. They said if you do not use an HDMI cable and use composite instead it might go away. So because of N i have to give up picture quality. N really does ****.

The tech support on the phone said the reason we have N is because so many people called in requesting it after seeing it somewhere else. I wonder who those people are? They didn't go to Lincoln, NE!

Several Questions, can you provide us with as much information as you can on these issues?

Can you press Settings please and go to Audio and let us know what your Audio is set at? Is this an HD or SD TV? Also are you currently using HDMI or component cable? Did you have this problem with your previous box? What is the model of this box?

Also what is the make and model of your remote? Are you currently hooked up to a sound system or just your TV?

Early checks would be the following:

1.) Under Settings and Audio, make sure this matches up to the type of cable that you are using.

2.) An Internet Search for your specific model of remote with instructions on how to program it to control the Volume through your TV only. (This will probably be a PDF file) Adobe Reader or Equivalent software would be required to view if this is the case. Than use the zoom feature in Adobe Reader to find out and write down how to control your cable remote volume through the TV.

3.) Before programing the remote to control your TV volume, find your TV remote (not the cable remote) and either using the TV remote or the Volume Button on the TV, adjust it to a comfortable level.

4.) Next, turn up the volume on the CABLE BOX as high as it will go.

5.) Now program your remote to control the volume through your TV. You will know this has been done correctly when the cable remote shows your TV volume being changed instead of the volume on the box.

If you have gone through all of this, and you still have volume problems, you might have a box doing strange things or a bad cable. I am not sure I believe that TWC says this is a problem on their end because it would be all over the Internet if that were the case. You can try switching cable from HDMI to Component or from Component back to HDMI or get a new HDMI cable or new component cable. BUT IF YOU DO, MAKE SURE TO CHECK AND CHANGE YOUR AUDIO SETTINGS IF NECESSARY SO THEY MATCH. The default in Navigator under Audio is "Fixed" for Audio Systems and "Variable" for Set Top Boxes. What is yours set at? You might also want to try setting your Audio range to "Narrow" which is supposed to generate consistent audio levels.

Jack

I think the variable output IS only for analog. When I got 'gatored, I checked several things... one was to set variable output to ON... it made no difference as I only use a digital connection from the STB to my AVR.



In general I agree... mostly because it USED to be one can try and set the source to the least noise "level" of volume. BUT, I'm not positive, but does a digital audio output NOT have any specific "volume?" I could be wrong, but I thought the D/A converter simply fed audio TO the amplifier, whereas the potentiometer (volume control) served to reduce the volume to a non distortion range.

I can say with absolute certainty that the 3090 DOES vary the digital outputs... It really shocked me that they would even consider varying the digital outputs, knowing that in many, if not most cases they would be fed into some form of post-processing. I'm a little foggier on whether the 8300 did or not... its been awhile.... but apparently from kjpjr's post they do, otherwise the issue he describes would never have come up.

Why would Navigator or eSata have anything to do with picture quality?

Some people as strange as it sounds did report a better picture when we got transferred from Passport to Navigator here. Funny story:

We have this local access channel here that is never used and it always had a blank screen. On Passport, the box would always freeze when it went to this screen for about 3-5 seconds. You would have to bypass it by holding the channel button down. When we got our Gator, there was no more freezing on that channel and the picture quality WAS better than it was with the Passport software. Better contrast, clearer, brighter images. I have NO IDEA WHY! LOL!

A reboot (often a cold reboot) has been known to solve picture problems. I have never heard of a drive expander causing picture issues though, more like functionality problems and transfer of recording issues:

The biggest issue was that SARA to Navigator updates or Passport to Navigator updates would often GET STUCK if an expander drive was turned on during the update process and boxes would hang. Sound advice is to DISCONNECT YOUR EXTERNAL DRIVES AS SOON AS YOU GET THAT UPDATE NOTICE and for best results, try NOT to be recording anything or even watching TV during the software change-over, which is usually between 2-4am, although any time is far game.

Even better, wait for 24 hours for the guide data to be fully populated, THAN replug in your expander drive and let it do its thing. The MDN boxes work better with the Expander drives than the C or Samsing boxes, but a software and box firmware upgrade for the C-boxes and Samsungs I heard is supposed to restore E-SATA compatibility some time next year.

At least if you want a newer box, it is good that the newer boxes have bigger hard drives now.

Jack

BTW... woke up this morning to see that my 3090 had another 5am mystery reboot. Still same software/firmware versions.

Better check my "Sort by Favorites" when I get home!

I can say with absolute certainty that the 3090 DOES vary the digital outputs... It really shocked me that they would even consider varying the digital outputs, knowing that in many, if not most cases they would be fed into some form of post-processing. I'm a little foggier on whether the 8300 did or not... its been awhile.... but apparently from kjpjr's post they do, otherwise the issue he describes would never have come up.

Wow, I'm surprised (I didn't think a digital audio signal carried a source device "volume" spec).

Just for the hell of it, I just tried... set it to Variable and at least for a 8300HD/MDN, varying the volume (STB) with a digital output does nothing.

Just read a post from my home market that someone just got a 320G 3090 from a field tech. Neighbor who visiting the store Monday was told they DID get some 320G 3090s, but only a very limited supply.

Some people as strange as it sounds did report a better picture when we got transferred from Passport to Navigator here.

Not hard to imagine, I suspect the decoders in ODN/MDN are different from Passport/SARA.

BUT I think the "better PQ" is mostly a slight contrast increase... "quality" isn't better, but it may LOOK better as it has more punch to it.

Not hard to imagine, I suspect the decoders in ODN/MDN are different from Passport/SARA.

BUT I think the "better PQ" is mostly a slight contrast increase... "quality" isn't better, but it may LOOK better as it has more punch to it.

I would think that if there WERE any changes in PQ (good or bad), they would more likely be tied to the firmware upgrade that usually accompanies the GUI/IPG upgrade. I don't think Navigator itself is responsible for any decoding.

...
Just for the hell of it, I just tried... set it to Variable and at least for a 8300HD/MDN, varying the volume (STB) with a digital output does nothing.
...

The fact that volume controls for the STB exist, but do nothing, is actually very useful - you can set Closed Captioning to "On With Mute", and then your mute button turns CC on/off, without any effect on the sound. You teach that code to some button on your universal remote, and voila - one button CC toggle, instead of going through a bunch of menus. I was dissapointed to find out that you can not do that trick with Tivo or Moxi, as they do not have box volume controls.

Wow, I'm surprised (I didn't think a digital audio signal carried a source device "volume" spec).

Just for the hell of it, I just tried... set it to Variable and at least for a 8300HD/MDN, varying the volume (STB) with a digital output does nothing.

Just read a post from my home market that someone just got a 320G 3090 from a field tech. Neighbor who visiting the store Monday was told they DID get some 320G 3090s, but only a very limited supply.

It's a "satisfy the lowest common denominator customer expectation's" thing, I'm sure.

As a senior cable engineer (at that time), I was appalled when analog STBs with volume control hit the market in the 80's... the volume control in those reduced the levels of the MTS subcarrier along with the audible spectrum... totally screwed up the stereo delivered to the TV when you changed volume from the box. Also could get very noisy if they cranked down the volume on the box and subsequently cranked the TV volume back up to compensate.

At least I made an effort to educate our employees as to how the baseband boxes worked and what the ramifications of using the volume control were... and made sure the FSRs knew (and the CSRs "script" included) instructions for normallizing the volume level when a customer had a "no stereo" or "noisy audio" customer complaint.

Not hard to imagine, I suspect the decoders in ODN/MDN are different from Passport/SARA.I doubt it--I'd expect hardware decoding chips in the box would be used by all IPGs. They may have adjustable parameters set differently by different IPGs, though.

Before pictures


http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af21/chasity1313/before3.jpg?t=1260403966

http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af21/chasity1313/before4.jpg?t=1260403994

http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af21/chasity1313/before2.jpg?t=1260404017

http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af21/chasity1313/before1.jpg?t=1260404042

After pictures



http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af21/chasity1313/after2.jpg?t=1260403787

http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af21/chasity1313/after1.jpg?t=1260403855

http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af21/chasity1313/after3.jpg?t=1260403880

http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af21/chasity1313/after4.jpg?t=1260403907

http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af21/chasity1313/after5.jpg?t=1260403930

Hey Abyss!!!!!

Great TIVO pics!!!! How are you and Tivo doing?!!!! How did the install go for you?

Jack

Let's put it this way i have new best friend !!!! ....The install went very smooth the installer that came out had never did one before but luckily someone that was familiar on the head-end new a great deal about it and i was in business.... the rest was history ....LOL! :D

Let's put it this way i have new best friend !!!! ....The install went very smooth the installer that came out had never did one before but luckily someone that was familiar on the head-end new a great deal about it and i was in business.... the rest was history ....LOL! :D

AWESOME!!!!!!

You know own Willy Wonka's factory!!!!! Hahahaha!!!

Jack

I would think that if there WERE any changes in PQ (good or bad), they would more likely be tied to the firmware upgrade that usually accompanies the GUI/IPG upgrade. I don't think Navigator itself is responsible for any decoding.

Could be, somehow I had an impression that such an old box like my 8300HD did not have "upgradable" firmware.

The only for sure thing is what I saw... the picture got a tad more contrast in the right amount to make it have a tiny bit more punch without totally losing detail in shadows. Pretty much the only really good thing in getting 'gatored.

The fact that volume controls for the STB exist, but do nothing, is actually very useful - you can set Closed Captioning to "On With Mute", and then your mute button turns CC on/off, without any effect on the sound. You teach that code to some button on your universal remote, and voila - one button CC toggle, instead of going through a bunch of menus. I was dissapointed to find out that you can not do that trick with Tivo or Moxi, as they do not have box volume controls.

I see your point, except it does not work that way in MDN. I set "on with mute" and with audio set to fixed or variable, no captions show up.

I did discover that having audio set to "variable" also means the volume does NOT go up or down continuously if the button is kept depressed. One has to keep pressing, releasing, pressing etc. to get the volume to change.

Let's put it this way i have new best friend !!!! ....The install went very smooth the installer that came out had never did one before but luckily someone that was familiar on the head-end new a great deal about it and i was in business.... the rest was history ....LOL! :D

Congrats on getting unSARAed!

I see your point, except it does not work that way in MDN. I set "on with mute" and with audio set to fixed or variable, no captions show up.

I'm sure you realize this and it may not pertain since you said you tried it in both fixed and variable modes, but I will point it out anyway... If you have the captions set to "On with Mute" in a setup where Volume/Mute functions are occurring in the AVR or TV, the box will never see a mute command to trigger the display of captions.

I will haul out the TW remote tonight and test if the 3090 will display captions based on the STB Mute command when the audio output is set to fixed.

I'm sure you realize this and it may not pertain since you said you tried it in both fixed and variable modes, but I will point it out anyway... If you have the captions set to "On with Mute" in a setup where Volume/Mute functions are occurring in the AVR or TV, the box will never see a mute command to trigger the display of captions.

I will haul out the TW remote tonight and test if the 3090 will display captions based on the STB Mute command when the audio output is set to fixed.

Oh my, I DID miss something. I was careful to not use the remotes vol control, but used the boxes front panel controls... but there IS no front panel control for mute. The remote's mute affects the TV's audio... even if I "set" the remote to CBL... it SHOULD use the STBs remote if set that way, but it doesn't.

Grrrrrrrr.

Oh my, I DID miss something. I was careful to not use the remotes vol control, but used the boxes front panel controls... but there IS no front panel control for mute. The remote's mute affects the TV's audio... even if I "set" the remote to CBL... it SHOULD use the STBs remote if set that way, but it doesn't.

Grrrrrrrr.

Well, the good news is that, as PedjaR pounted out, if your remote allows you to, you can reassign or add a button for STB mute and use it as a one button Caption On/Off.

Thanks guys ...Had i not talked to Ben i probably would still be on sara ...You want to know a little irony to the wonka factory .....The kid who played charlie lives minutes from where i live ....he is now a veternarian !!!!

Before pictures



Congrats Abbyss! I joined the TiVo crowed about 6 weeks ago.

One thing that may annoy you coming from SARA is the guide speed. You can use the ffwd/rew and instant replay/30 second skip to jump around in the guide by days/3 hour blocks - which makes it faster to navigate.

xnappo

It's a bit sluggish ....but it has so many other perks i don 't really notice it so much...What series you have Xnappo ?

It's a bit sluggish ....but it has so many other perks i don 't really notice it so much...What series you have Xnappo ?

TivoHD. I am sure now a new one with a built-in tuning adapter will be announced at CES, but oh well.

xnappo

The first day after the cablecard was installed it rebooted like three times that night....have not had the reboots the night before or today....knock on wood ! :confused: Those tuning adapters are much bigger then i had expected almost like a "mini" receiver.

TivoHD. I am sure now a new one with a built-in tuning adapter will be announced at CES, but oh well.

xnappoA new one that won't need a Tuning Adapter (because it's capable of running code for SDV tuning as downloaded into it by your cable provider) may be announced at CES, but it could be quite a while before that unit ships or is supported by your cable provider.

Such a unit will also be able to operate in a mode wherein it can run Navigator and other <tru2way> IPGs, thereby giving access to interactive cable system products like Video On Demand, Pay-Per-View and the multi-channel interactive sports tiers (NBA League Pass, NHL Center Ice, MLB Extra Innings, etc). In this "cable mode" it won't have DVR features; you'd switch back to the TiVo GUI For those.

Congratulations abyssrules! Be sure to read bkdtv's "TiVo HD FAQ (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=419994)" at TiVo Community Forums and generally check out those forums, a rich source of info on these heavily feature-ladened devices. There are TiVo threads here at AVS as well.

Thanks mike for the info on the tivo hd have to look it over.

Well, the good news is that, as PedjaR pounted out, if your remote allows you to, you can reassign or add a button for STB mute and use it as a one button Caption On/Off.

Fortunately I DID have the old remote pamphlet so I could see the procedure. I remapped vol/mute BACK to the CBL button and all is as stated... I CAN invoke closed caption by hitting the mute. BUT I do use my TVs speakers (late at night) every day so I have to also remember to switch to CBL, then back to TV.

I most likely will reverse this as I almost NEVER actually use CC. Think I used it twice when I was watching live and had a LOT of audio breakup. It WAS a pain reading the captions, so if the audio drop outs gets too much, I'd rather switch to the SD channel.

It's a bit sluggish ....but it has so many other perks i don 't really notice it so much...What series you have Xnappo ?

Ah, the perks of having a lighter bank account<g>! Seriously, I am curious why a Series 3 and not a HD (I thought the Series 3 went away when they introed the HD)?

Did you go fore 3 years or lifetime?

Monthly payment right now.series 3 and the hd series are virtually the same all but a few minor differences.

Fortunately I DID have the old remote pamphlet so I could see the procedure. I remapped vol/mute BACK to the CBL button and all is as stated... I CAN invoke closed caption by hitting the mute. BUT I do use my TVs speakers (late at night) every day so I have to also remember to switch to CBL, then back to TV.

I most likely will reverse this as I almost NEVER actually use CC. Think I used it twice when I was watching live and had a LOT of audio breakup. It WAS a pain reading the captions, so if the audio drop outs gets too much, I'd rather switch to the SD channel.

Fortunately, nobody requires CC in my house, but there have been times (as in talking on the phone) that having them on would be nice... a one button on/off would make that much easier than running through the menu.

A new one that won't need a Tuning Adapter (because it's capable of running code for SDV tuning as downloaded into it by your cable provider) may be announced at CES, but it could be quite a while before that unit ships or is supported by your cable provider.

Such a unit will also be able to operate in a mode wherein it can run Navigator and other <tru2way> IPGs, thereby giving access to interactive cable system products like Video On Demand, Pay-Per-View and the multi-channel interactive sports tiers (NBA League Pass, NHL Center Ice, MLB Extra Innings, etc). In this "cable mode" it won't have DVR features; you'd switch back to the TiVo GUI For those.

Wouldn't that make it a real <tru2way> box?

Are ANY cable ops actually supporting it anywhere?

Could we be in a classic chicken and egg, the cable ops saying not until third party boxes are available, the CE guys saying not until we see the cable ops supporting it?

Fortunately, nobody requires CC in my house, but there have been times (as in talking on the phone) that having them on would be nice... a one button on/off would make that much easier than running through the menu.

Phone calls make me instinctively hit the pause button!

Fortunately, nobody requires CC in my house, but there have been times (as in talking on the phone) that having them on would be nice... a one button on/off would make that much easier than running through the menu.

Sometimes an actor would mumble his/her lines and I would not catch it - then I hit CC on, replay, read what was said, and then turn CC off. Without one button CC toggle, this would be a bit of a pain - menus flashing for several seconds (it would be even worse if your remote did not have macros and you actually had to press a bunch of buttons).

Phone calls make me instinctively hit the pause button!

Depends on the show and if I have time to make up the time later.

The first day after the cablecard was installed it rebooted like three times that night....have not had the reboots the night before or today....knock on wood ! :confused: Those tuning adapters are much bigger then i had expected almost like a "mini" receiver.

That's because they are. The Cisco box is a lazy design. They just threw the boards in one of their lower end cable STB's. The Motorola version is smaller and supports three tuners.

The tuning adapter continues the legacy of TWC in that it too is a troublesome piece of cra ... I mean, hardware.

a one button on/off would make that much easier than running through the menu.

have you figured out a way to map this to a harmony?
once i attempted to make a sequence of commands(menu, down, select, up , select, etc.) to activate CC but i never got the delays correct where it would work properly.
if you get a one button on/off CC to work on the harmony please let me know.
thanks

Wouldn't that make it a real <tru2way> box?

Are ANY cable ops actually supporting it anywhere?

Could we be in a classic chicken and egg, the cable ops saying not until third party boxes are available, the CE guys saying not until we see the cable ops supporting it?Yes, it will be a real tru2way box. CableLABs will not qualify a box for two way communications without OCAP, so all retail two-way boxes which use CableCARD will be tru2way boxes.

AFAIK, there are some active test markets for tru2way (I think that Comcast Atlanta, Denver and Chicago are a few), and yes, it is a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation, but several OEMs have been showing tru2way products at shows for the past couple of years and I'm sure that CES will be full of them this year.

have you figured out a way to map this to a harmony?
once i attempted to make a sequence of commands(menu, down, select, up , select, etc.) to activate CC but i never got the delays correct where it would work properly.
if you get a one button on/off CC to work on the harmony please let me know.
thanks

Well... we're hoping (and I plan on testing whether) the 3090 will still "Caption on Mute" even if the Audio Out is set to Fixed (and of course, it really doesn't mute the HDMI out). If that is true, then all you need to do is add an STB mute command and then use it as a CC On/Off.

If it IS that simple, I may implement it... but I don't need the CC that badly that I would bother with the headache of making the Harmony navigate through the STB menus.

Yes, it will be a real tru2way box. CableLABs will not qualify a box for two way communications without OCAP, so all retail two-way boxes which use CableCARD will be tru2way boxes.

AFAIK, there are some active test markets for tru2way (I think that Comcast Atlanta, Denver and Chicago are a few), and yes, it is a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation, but several OEMs have been showing tru2way products at shows for the past couple of years and I'm sure that CES will be full of them this year.

Caught this after I asked my questions:

http://hd.engadget.com/2009/12/08/panasonic-to-make-boston-the-fourth-tru2way-market/

Looks like Comcrap and 4 cities plus Panasonic are dipping their toes in. Maybe I'm too cynical, but I have major skepticism about this, especially being locked into TWC!

Sometimes an actor would mumble his/her lines and I would not catch it - then I hit CC on, replay, read what was said, and then turn CC off. Without one button CC toggle, this would be a bit of a pain - menus flashing for several seconds (it would be even worse if your remote did not have macros and you actually had to press a bunch of buttons).

Ah, good point.

Well... we're hoping (and I plan on testing whether) the 3090 will still "Caption on Mute" even if the Audio Out is set to Fixed (and of course, it really doesn't mute the HDMI out). If that is true, then all you need to do is add an STB mute command and then use it as a CC On/Off.

If it IS that simple, I may implement it... but I don't need the CC that badly that I would bother with the headache of making the Harmony navigate through the STB menus.

In the old FWIW department, my remote was still set-up, so I did a quick check. The trick seems to work on variable AND fixed output (8300HD/MDN).

The Harmony can learn, right? IF I had one, I'd "capture" the current signal from my remote that works (i.e. make sure the CBL button is set, then hit the Mute button). I COULD then map the mute to the TV itself even IN CBL mode.

In the old FWIW department, my remote was still set-up, so I did a quick check. The trick seems to work on variable AND fixed output (8300HD/MDN).

The Harmony can learn, right? IF I had one, I'd "capture" the current signal from my remote that works (i.e. make sure the CBL button is set, then hit the Mute button). I COULD then map the mute to the TV itself even IN CBL mode.

Yeah, tested it when I got home from work... it works on the Samsung even when its on fixed output... it also still mutes even when set to fixed output. So... it really can't be used just as a CC toggle, but I can remap the mute button on the Harmony to be an STB mute instead of an AVR mute, which would at least allow it to work in a "CC on Mute" mode.

BTW, the Harmony can learn, but would not be required in this case as the mute commands for all three devices used in the "Watch TV" activity (STB/AVR/TV) are already in the Harmony database and any can be mapped at will to the mute button... and a second mute buttons could be mapped to an unused hard button or a soft button.

I don't expect any new version of Navigator this year but more like early next year. TWC San Diego doesn't do any updates like that during the holidays.

Yeah, tested it when I got home from work... it works on the Samsung even when its on fixed output... it also still mutes even when set to fixed output. So... it really can't be used just as a CC toggle, but I can remap the mute button on the Harmony to be an STB mute instead of an AVR mute, which would at least allow it to work in a "CC on Mute" mode.
...

I guess one more reason (for me) to prefer HDC over Samsung. On HDC it definitely does not actually mute (but does toggle CC) when set on fixed and connected to AVR with optical.

I don't expect any new version of Navigator this year but more like early next year. TWC San Diego doesn't do any updates like that during the holidays.

Agreed,

I don't know what's in MDN 2.5, which is in Beta. But I will bet that the 3.0 could have several new features. For Milwaukee, they are finishing up the addition of about 20-25 new HD channels before the end of the year. Than probably around first quarter of 2010, we could see some new IPG features.

I heard that ODN needs a firmware box upgrade and a cable card download upgrade before new features can be added. Maybe this could allow MDN versions to catch up to some ODN only features? (Adding Nearest Tune, Restoring of Sort By Favorites?)

Keyword Search will probably just expand the keyboard to include that functionality. It might not be in MDN 2.5, but probably in 3.0.

TWC I don't think wants to create such an imbalance to the software with new HD channel additions and IPG features at the same time.

Jack

So is it just my imagination...I successfully connected an eSATA drive and brought my DVR storage capacity from 96% full to 21% full. After the box rebooted, it seems that the channels that were not looking good (ESPN. etc.) are back to looking good again as they were before the upgrade. Would the fact that the DVR was full have something to do with the picture quality? Or maybe the box just needed to reboot a few times...:confused:

Some people as strange as it sounds did report a better picture when we got transferred from Passport to Navigator here. Funny story:

We have this local access channel here that is never used and it always had a blank screen. On Passport, the box would always freeze when it went to this screen for about 3-5 seconds. You would have to bypass it by holding the channel button down. When we got our Gator, there was no more freezing on that channel and the picture quality WAS better than it was with the Passport software. Better contrast, clearer, brighter images. I have NO IDEA WHY! LOL!

A reboot (often a cold reboot) has been known to solve picture problems. I have never heard of a drive expander causing picture issues though, more like functionality problems and transfer of recording issues:

The biggest issue was that SARA to Navigator updates or Passport to Navigator updates would often GET STUCK if an expander drive was turned on during the update process and boxes would hang. Sound advice is to DISCONNECT YOUR EXTERNAL DRIVES AS SOON AS YOU GET THAT UPDATE NOTICE and for best results, try NOT to be recording anything or even watching TV during the software change-over, which is usually between 2-4am, although any time is far game.

Even better, wait for 24 hours for the guide data to be fully populated, THAN replug in your expander drive and let it do its thing. The MDN boxes work better with the Expander drives than the C or Samsing boxes, but a software and box firmware upgrade for the C-boxes and Samsungs I heard is supposed to restore E-SATA compatibility some time next year.

At least if you want a newer box, it is good that the newer boxes have bigger hard drives now.

Jack

Okay...while I swear the quality of most channels (ESPN, ESPN2 in particular) has gotten better after connecting the eSATA drive and performing multiple reboots, recordings seem to be suffering now (i.e. video pixelation, audio drop outs and skips). The issues occur at the same time when played back (it seems as if it is being recorded this way not just playing this way from the HDD).

I assume the new recordings are being recorded to the external drive since the DVR capacity was drastically reduced and only a few shows were deleted (from the DVR HDD). Could the quality of the HDD be causing this sort of issue? The drive is a 500gb Barracuda 7200 RPM - not sure of the model#.

Thank you for any insight...the information contained on this site is very helpful.

That also goes for any Samsung FW updates. So you'll have to live with a buggy box until after the holidays. I won't say when it will deploy even for San Diego as I want to keep it as a surprise.

The reason why Please wait happens is that it wants to do a reading of the in band carousel and will force a non DVR box to say that. This bug also is in the 8300HDC/8240HDC where it loses the buffer to do just that. I did get a response from my engineering contact and they've been busy trying to get the new HD channels installed.

That also goes for any Samsung FW updates. So you'll have to live with a buggy box until after the holidays. I won't say when it will deploy even for San Diego as I want to keep it as a surprise.

I am fairly certain that San Diego will get any box/guide updates first.

Jack

I think San Diego should get a update pretty soon. I don't know when MDN will get updated though. I only use ODN so I'm not that experienced with MDN, especially on a DVR box. I've only had a DVR since last year and that was an 8300HDC which I still have right now.

That also goes for any Samsung FW updates. So you'll have to live with a buggy box until after the holidays. I won't say when it will deploy even for San Diego as I want to keep it as a surprise.

Yeah because we all love surprises as far as Navigator deployment is concerned. :rolleyes:

So you either don't know or you won't say. Maybe you don't want to take the flak if a date is missed or because you don't want to get in trouble for breaking an NDA, but if you won't give out information then why bother even mentioning it?

If you have information then keep it to yourself or just say it. It doesn't do anyone any favors by going the insider secrecy or "surprise" route.

I don't know the date but I found out that they don't do major updates during this holiday season. I think I won't post anything else from my contact unless it's something like a bug fix. I want to make sure he doesn't lose his job. We all know that San Diego is getting a new version of Navigator soon. We also know that the Samsung 3260 and 3270 boxes are getting a new firmware to fix some bugs. The Please wait bug on screen and the VOD Please wait bug. The 3270 doesn't really suffer from those symptoms. I've posted these bugs before.

I noticed something odd recently that may have been discussed already, but I don't recall it. When I bring up the guide, recording list, whatever, it used to compress the currently active screen and show it upper-right corner. Now, it merely displays the guide on top of the current screen without compression ... just an overlay. It's possible that it began a few weeks ago when I got ODN 3.1.3_2 and it's taken me that long to notice it, but it seems more like a recent change.

Wait a minute ... I just tried it again and it's working as it should. I can't guess what got it into or out of that state because I was goofing with a variety of things to see what might affect it. The last thing I recall trying was PIP.

Anyone else notice this?

Last night we were watching a recorded show, it started to pixel and freeze. And then -- N decided it was time to reboot! Took over 10 minutes to complete the reboot UGH!

Also last night I was watching the Giants/Eagles when it got very sleepy! I decided to record the 4th quarter and go to bed. When I got up to watch this morning I discovered a really sucky feature of N. If you fast forward, like between plays, when you push the play arrow it backs up about 8 to 10 seconds. SARA only went back a second or two. I did discover a workaround -- when you get to where you want to be in the recording push pause instead of play. It seems to stop right there, of course you have to push an extra key. Ah progress!

And for one who uses favorites to keep track of sports this N is a real horror story. It is very user unfriendly to change or delete or add favorites. We really only use favorites for this but it is almost a daily thing to change them. :mad:

And for one who uses favorites to keep track of sports this N is a real horror story.

Yes, that is my major pet peeve of Navigator. Sports with multiple games listed are currently impossible to find because when you search for a sport and find that sport with a lot of games, you currently ONLY get a Title List of the type of sport it is and have to open up tiers to see what games are on by pressing the Select button.

Ummmmmm I think I'll watch College Football and see when the Wisconsin Badgers game is on:


Press B "Find Shows"
Press B "Category Search"
Scroll to "Theme"
Find "Football"

Press Select and get a LISTING of TITLES that are alphabetically arranged for Football, but tell me NOTHING about the games that are currently playing or the teams associated with what is in the listing. Next I have to do the following:

"Scroll down using the Page +/- button to tap the button to find College Football. I get:

Multiple Listings Are Available for this Title, Press Select

College Football-"Teams TBA"
College Football-"Army vs Navey"
College Football-"Oregon vs Alabama"
College Football-"No Upcoming Shows Are Available For This Title"
College Football-"No Upcoming Shows Are Available For this Title"
College Football-"Teams TBA"
College Football-*WISCONSIN vs. NORTHWESTERN*
College Football
College Football
College Football

Wow! How easy, I had to open up seven tiers to get to the game I want to see! And there is no reason in the world why "No upcoming shows are available for this title" should be there! Currently, the search results are not always even LISTED by the time that they are on.

This is where the return of Keyword Search and the ability to eliminate duplicate searches as words are typed is so important and one of the biggest missed features of the new software.

Worse is that people new to Navigator do not realize that the keyboard ONLY returns results by the FIRST LETTER of a program or the second letter if the first letter starts with "A" or the word "The"

But who the hell is going to know that and type "M" for Major League Baseball instead of "B" for Baseball. I think so many people just assume that today's keyboard technology could and should be able to look for keywords in program descriptions.

Hopefully by the first quarter of 2010 this will change as Navigator searches are improved:

1.) The next update is supposed to place the cursor automatically on the show you are watching when you start a search.

2.) Subsequent updates will allow Keyword Searching and the Sports Now category is going to be expanded to include being able to search for games and teams using the keyboard.

3.) Later on Remote DVR management is supposed to be added

4.) Manual Recording is being developed.

I am hoping that we will see #1 and #2 before the end of the first quarter of 2010. I don't think that #3 will be out until 3rd quarter and maybe the Manual Recording in 4th Quarter.

The most important now are Cursor on Show You Are Watching and Keyword Search.

Jack

Last night we were watching a recorded show, it started to pixel and freeze. And then -- N decided it was time to reboot! Took over 10 minutes to complete the reboot UGH!

Also last night I was watching the Giants/Eagles when it got very sleepy! I decided to record the 4th quarter and go to bed. When I got up to watch this morning I discovered a really sucky feature of N. If you fast forward, like between plays, when you push the play arrow it backs up about 8 to 10 seconds. SARA only went back a second or two. I did discover a workaround -- when you get to where you want to be in the recording push pause instead of play. It seems to stop right there, of course you have to push an extra key. Ah progress!

And for one who uses favorites to keep track of sports this N is a real horror story. It is very user unfriendly to change or delete or add favorites. We really only use favorites for this but it is almost a daily thing to change them. :mad:

Actually, the way FF tends to work is just the way I like it. When watching the 3x speed FF, when you notice it's back to the show, it tends to be up to 30 seconds in. Hit PLAY and oit backs up x amount.

Each software seems to simply have a different X. I find MDN has a larger X than Passport, so more time than not, I get to see the last 10 seconds of the commercial break. From what I read, it seems ODN/3090s have a shorter X.

It's really a matter of getting used to the TIMING of whatever you have. If it instantly shifted, I'd be very annoyed because I'd be forever racking back to find the start of the show!

TWC is way too secretive about software updates and new features for the boxes. In contrast, if any of you use the Firefox web browser as an alternate to IE, you can always visit forums for help, questions and answers about updates, and when an update is released and you install it, you are told what was fixed and why?

Why isn't TWC more open and communicative with service updates? We don't even know when they are coming other than the rare instance of a voice-mail phone call saying "Navigator Update could be in a few days, don't power off your box during the transition." Divisions never say WHEN. Why do we have to come to cable forums to get answers to basic questions? With people paying up to hundreds and hundreds of dollars a month, the least TWC could do is talk to us! Give us customers some feedback on what works, what doesn't and what is changing!

My local division in Milwaukee spends thousands of dollars on Community Programs, such as the "Get Tough" on Drugs campaign for kids and the wonderful support of "Cable in the Classroom." Now they need to take that teaching and learning experience to the boxes and program guide that they wrote in-house! Get the community involved in what they like and don't like about it! Maybe through some effective communications with customers over time, people can have more good things to say about TWC than bad things to say about TWC.

Jack

Agreed Jack, hell our division has given zero indication of Navigator deployment other than the confirmed select few who are using it.

I agree as well, but we have to remember that the vast majority of customers don't give a rat's ass. The TV turns on, they watch CSI, they are happy. AVS'ers may be knowledgeable and opinionated, but definitely do not represent the majority of TWC customers. Sucks for us, but...

I agree as well, but we have to remember that the vast majority of customers don't give a rat's ass. The TV turns on, they watch CSI, they are happy. AVS'ers may be knowledgeable and opinionated, but definitely do not represent the majority of TWC customers. Sucks for us, but...

Yes, but the tech minded like us have virtually nothing out there high end. No third party has made a capable replacement box. It's like your only option is an HTPC. I wish I could take Dish Networks DVR and use it with my cable. The bottom line is TWC is literally decades behind the closest competition when it comes to DVR software and functionality.

Actually, the way FF tends to work is just the way I like it. When watching the 3x speed FF, when you notice it's back to the show, it tends to be up to 30 seconds in. Hit PLAY and oit backs up x amount.


I actually worked this out a while ago. The 1x speed backs up 7 seconds when you hit PLAY again, the 2x speed backs up 14 seconds, the 3x speed backs up 28 seconds. Got no problem with the FF "back-ups". The problem I've always had is this useful feature in FF is "mirrored" on the REW button when what you really want is for the machine to stop backing up in rewind mode when you see the frame you want, without a corresponding jump forward, which often results in you having to hit REW again to get to the point you want. The workaround is, of course, to hit PAUSE, then PLAY, as many have mentioned. But how easy would it be for TWC to fix this little Navigator bug? 10 minutes of a programmer's time - just take out the "mirrored" code which shouldn't have been there in the first place. In Passport, it wasn't.

I've been whining about it for a couple of years now, but whenever they roll out a new version, this bug is still there. It's their little gift that keeps on giving.

I actually worked this out a while ago. The 1x speed backs up 7 seconds when you hit PLAY again, the 2x speed backs up 14 seconds, the 3x speed backs up 28 seconds. Got no problem with the FF "back-ups". The problem I've always had is this useful feature in FF is "mirrored" on the REW button when what you really want is for the machine to stop backing up in rewind mode when you see the frame you want, without a corresponding jump forward, which often results in you having to hit REW again to get to the point you want. The workaround is, of course, to hit PAUSE, then PLAY, as many have mentioned. But how easy would it be for TWC to fix this little Navigator bug? 10 minutes of a programmer's time - just take out the "mirrored" code which shouldn't have been there in the first place. In Passport, it wasn't.

I've been whining about it for a couple of years now, but whenever they roll out a new version, this bug is still there. It's their little gift that keeps on giving.

I'm not sure I would call it a bug... Why would REW not have a jump forward function similar to the jump back function that FF has? I have seen others comment as you have and never quite figured out why you would not want it on REW as well. Seems "normal" to me that the same reaction time compensation would apply to both. Just curious as to why it's a problem to some folks.

Somewhat related to this subject, one other thing I will mention once again to those who have not figured it out on their own... In ODN boxes only, the box reacts to the release - not the press - of the Play button when coming out of FF or REW. You can be much more accurate if you start the FF or REW function, then when you know you are getting close to where you want to be, press and hold the Play button and release it when you hit your spot. If you press it when you hit your spot, nothing will happen until you release it, which can give a sense of sluggishness and inconsistency to the way it works.

I'm not sure I would call it a bug... Why would REW not have a jump forward function similar to the jump back function that FF has? I have seen others comment as you have and never quite figured out why you would not want it on REW as well. Seems "normal" to me that the same reaction time compensation would apply to both. Just curious as to why it's a problem to some folks.

Because it's illogical.

When you FF past a point the play motion will take you further away.

When you rewind past a point the play motion will take you closer to it.

If you have average reaction times you can stop relatively close to the mark during rewind - you don't need it to jump thirty seconds ahead so that you have to rewind again and again until your reaction time is slow enough to compensate for the damn thing jumping over the spot you are looking for.

If you miss the rewind point by ten seconds you can hit play and just let it go until you reach it on any other device. Not on Navigator. Back and forth back and forth. It's the only device on the market where you have to operate the machine slower than your own ability and you have to rewind well beyond the point you want to see so that you can ensure that Navigator won't jump further ahead of it when you press play.

Because it's illogical.

When you FF past a point the play motion will take you further away.

When you rewind past a point the play motion will take you closer to it.

If you have average reaction times you can stop relatively close to the mark during rewind - you don't need it to jump thirty seconds ahead so that you have to rewind again and again until your reaction time is slow enough to compensate for the damn thing jumping over the spot you are looking for.

If you miss the rewind point by ten seconds you can hit play and just let it go until you reach it on any other device. Not on Navigator. Back and forth back and forth. It's the only device on the market where you have to operate the machine slower than your own ability and you have to rewind well beyond the point you want to see so that you can ensure that Navigator won't jump further ahead of it when you press play.

I can see your point... I guess the amounts of compensation must just match my reaction times (not sure what that says about my reflexes, lol - or maybe I just auto-compensated without ever thinking much about it), because I pretty much get to exactly where I should be with either function. I almost always hit the "black kiss" between commercial and program going either way.

I think the key thing with this jump-back stuff is this:

When in FF mode, the "jumpback" feature is useful because you're going to speed past the point where you want to start again. If it plopped you back down into your program when you hit the PLAY button, you'd be further past the point where you really wanted to begin again, necessitating a REW button press and a corresponding rise in blood pressure. The OnDemand channels are different and it's pretty annoying (but they work better on REW for the same reason).

But in REW, you're watching the screen and when you see where you want to be, when that frame appears, that's where you want to plop back into the program stream, not several seconds in front of it, necessitating another REW button press. If you end up behind where you want to be because of slow reaction time, it's no big deal as in a few seconds of normal play speed you'll catch up to where you wanted to be anyway, without requiring another button press.

Hope that makes sense. :)

Get ready for this... just looked at the new 1/1/10 rates (NYC)... guess what? They now have an actual charge for this crap-ola software... $3.00 per month for "Navigator."

Get ready for this... just looked at the new 1/1/10 rates (NYC)... guess what? They now have an actual charge for this crap-ola software... $3.00 per month for "Navigator."

I'm sure that's in preparation for "renting" Navigator to customer-provided tru2way devices. I think we've always expected that the charge for the IPG/GUI would be broken out because of that.

For my use, REW works exactly as I want it to. You see, I have a 3-minute FF skip function on my remote control. Every once in a while, 3 minutes is more than the commercial break. In that case, I hit REW, twice. When I see the end of the commercial, I hit PLAY. It puts me right were I want to be every time. To me, any other way would be "illogical".

Get ready for this... just looked at the new 1/1/10 rates (NYC)... guess what? They now have an actual charge for this crap-ola software... $3.00 per month for "Navigator."

How is it itemized on your bill, Riverside? THAT SUCKS!!!!!

Jack

What really sucks is that I heard that COX Cable after the first of the year was going to start useing the 8642HDC Cisco box. They will be useing Passport Echo as their native guide. And if what I am hearing is correct it is the 8642HDC with the 500 gb hard dive, Now thats a perfect combo. At least one cable company seems to be getting it right. WOODY

Cox was going to use an NDS based guide for their tru2way boxes.

San Diego is getting a new revision of Navigator but it will most likely be a bug fix release.

The 8300/8240HDC's are getting a new Middleware patch to fix the buffer. I don't expect Keyword Search or any of the cool new features being planned for 2010.

Cox was going to use an NDS based guide for their tru2way boxes.

San Diego is getting a new revision of Navigator but it will most likely be a bug fix release.

From what I have read it is the newest most enhansed version of Passport guide they are going to use. It was prepared for them by Passport. I forget Passports owners now Apitv or something like tha are called.. WOODY

From what I have read it is the newest most enhansed version of Passport guide they are going to use. It was prepared for them by Passport. I forget Passports owners now Apitv or something like tha are called.. WOODYThe Passport group seceded from Pioneer to become Aptiv Digital which was was bought by Gemstar which was assimilated by Macrovision which renamed itself "Rovi Corp" (presumably derived from macROVIsion). They have a pretty slick, high-def, tru2way version of Passport now, as well as the latest and greatest release of the old one. You can see info on that here (http://www.rovicorp.com/products/service_providers/guide_sp/passport_tru2way.htm?link_id=rightnav).

The 8300/8240HDC's are getting a new Middleware patch to fix the buffer. I don't expect Keyword Search or any of the cool new features being planned for 2010.

You mean after all this, they can't put a simple or at least more convenient search such as Keyword Search in the guide sometime in 2010? Or are you talking about this next box update exclusively? If the next update just has bug fixes, that's OK, but if they aren't gonna do any kind of improved Keyword Search, one of the biggest areas of Navigator that needs improvment that just sucks!

Jack

What really sucks is that I heard that COX Cable after the first of the year was going to start using the 8642HDC Cisco box. They will be using Passport Echo as their native guide. And if what I am hearing is correct it is the 8642HDC with the 500 gb hard dive, Now thats a perfect combo. At least one cable company seems to be getting it right. WOODY

I hear you CW!!!

Somebody should do some PhotoShopping, send some sample pictures of Passport 2010's new guide to TWC President Glenn Britt and say, "See, THIS is what a this generation guide is supposed to look like!"

I have seen some screen-shots of the new Passport Guide and it looks VERY TIVO-like. If it performs as well as it looks, I don't anyone would complain!

Scroll about half way down this site:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.adrianatavares.com/images/p_iTV/GuideOptions/GuideOpt_p_02.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.adrianatavares.com/workiTV.php&usg=__n8T66GnptlBhrBhYTKEsCTzhP34=&h=490&w=907&sz=83&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=Jh9wpZuQjlpCcM:&tbnh=79&tbnw=147&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522Passport%2Bprogram%2Bguide%2522%26hl%3Den% 26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1

Cox should do a before (with TWC's Navigator) and after (with Passport's new guide) commercial showing how much better Passport's newest guide is compared to Navigator and distribute it nationwide. Maybe THAT would get TWC to add the features that would be expected of a 2010 IPG!

Jack

You mean after all this, they can't put a simple or at least more convenient search such as Keyword Search in the guide sometime in 2010? Or are you talking about this next box update exclusively? If the next update just has bug fixes, that's OK, but if they aren't gonna do any kind of improved Keyword Search, one of the biggest areas of Navigator that needs improvment that just sucks!

Jack

Good thing you caught me. They are just doing bug fixes in this upcoming update. Keyword search and all the improvements are next year. Thanks for figuring that out.

Good thing you caught me. They are just doing bug fixes in this upcoming update. Keyword search and all the improvements are next year. Thanks for figuring that out.

Thanks,

I take it this update will include that cable card Firmware fix for the HDC/Samsung boxes. I think they needed to do this for these boxes before they could roll out other features.

MDN boxes it appears do not need this particular update. The division's decisions will probably be to go with MDN 2.5, which is in Beta now, or wait for version 3.0. 3.0 could be a really "big deal" release with a lot of the new features we've talked about.

I don't know for sure, but I think that MDN 2.5 COULD bring little things to the boxes like Nearest Tune and Cursor Search on show being watched or viewed, (instead of starting back at "A.") I could be wrong, but we probably won't see Keyword Searching until possibly MDN 3.0.

Jack

New version of ODN is out v3.1.3_3. It fixes most instances of Please Wait on non DVR boxes like my Samsung 3260. The HDC DVR's now have a new middleware that fixes the service group that can cause the buffer to be lost.

New version of ODN is out v3.1.3_3. It fixes most instances of Please Wait on non DVR boxes like my Samsung 3260. The HDC DVR's now have a new middleware that fixes the service group that can cause the buffer to be lost.

Desert Cities also got the new 3.1.3_3 (dated 11/19/2009) update. I don't see any changes on my 8300HDC.

I'm sure that's in preparation for "renting" Navigator to customer-provided tru2way devices. I think we've always expected that the charge for the IPG/GUI would be broken out because of that.

Such devices are most likely years and years away... so I think this is more about increasing charges for those who have supposed "price locks."

How is it itemized on your bill, Riverside? THAT SUCKS!!!!!

Jack

It was listed on their website as a charge that starts 1/1/10... so I expect it to show up on the next bill.

Like I said above, it seems a lot of the price increases will get applied to those with supposed "price locks." I could be wrong, but I anticipate the triple play will stay the same, but DVR service is going up and we have this crap charge added on.

Thanks,

I take it this update will include that cable card Firmware fix for the HDC/Samsung boxes. I think they needed to do this for these boxes before they could roll out other features.

MDN boxes it appears do not need this particular update. The division's decisions will probably be to go with MDN 2.5, which is in Beta now, or wait for version 3.0. 3.0 could be a really "big deal" release with a lot of the new features we've talked about.

I don't know for sure, but I think that MDN 2.5 COULD bring little things to the boxes like Nearest Tune and Cursor Search on show being watched or viewed, (instead of starting back at "A.") I could be wrong, but we probably won't see Keyword Searching until possibly MDN 3.0.

Jack

Somehow or other, I think they'll withhold any of this stuff until they see subs going down. Or get more competitive pressure.

I also find it way weird they plan to right away start charging for Craptigator... seems that will only accelerate people choosing TiVo or Moxi and TWC will lose the 20-26 bucks/month they extract from every DVR user.

Somehow or other, I think they'll withhold any of this stuff until they see subs going down. Or get more competitive pressure.

I also find it way weird they plan to right away start charging for Craptigator... seems that will only accelerate people choosing TiVo or Moxi and TWC will lose the 20-26 bucks/month they extract from every DVR user.

Very true Riverside,

OR if better searches and features are coming sooner rather than later for Navigator, TWC will ring up some $hit saying, "Well, we need that collection fee from our customers for all of the wonderful new features added or coming to the boxes." You know, con the public into thinking they are doing some big deal thing that turns out to be next to nothing.

Jack

It was listed on their website as a charge that starts 1/1/10... so I expect it to show up on the next bill.

Like I said above, it seems a lot of the price increases will get applied to those with supposed "price locks." I could be wrong, but I anticipate the triple play will stay the same, but DVR service is going up and we have this crap charge added on.

They increased the prices here too but Navigator cost is always rolled into the digital package.

Service |From |To
Broadcast Cable| $ 12.95| $ 17.00
Basic Cable (includes Broadcast Cable and Cable Programming Tier)| $ 56.66 |$ 59.95
Digital Cable (includes Basic Cable, digital programming tier, digital equipment and Navigator interactive guide)| $ 71.95 |$ 76.95

They increased the prices here too but Navigator cost is always rolled into the digital package.

Service |From |To
Broadcast Cable| $ 12.95| $ 17.00
Basic Cable (includes Broadcast Cable and Cable Programming Tier)| $ 56.66 |$ 59.95
Digital Cable (includes Basic Cable, digital programming tier, digital equipment and Navigator interactive guide)| $ 71.95 |$ 76.95


That's how my "All In One" Package is structured as well. Although it just calls Navigator the "Digital Interactive Program Guide."

You guys might remember but when Passport was first introduced a lot of literature markets actually called it "The Navigator!" Someone in my closet I have or used to have old cable crap, and I distinctly remember that's what they called it!

Jack

They increased the prices here too but Navigator cost is always rolled into the digital package.

Indeed you could be correct... I saw it listed as a separate entity as part of the overall price increases.

I've heard that SoCal is still on ODN v3.1.1_3 and MDN v2.4.4-16. They should consider updating their boxes or could just wait for the next major version.

i posted here (or maybe the charlotte thread) like a year ago concerning my cousin in law who was a new TW subscriber. on his bill there was a charge for the navigator software. like $2 i believe. i posted here questioning it and if anyone else had seen such a charge as my bill never had the software charge segragated like that. i dont believe i got any answers back then.

i posted here (or maybe the Charlotte thread) like a year ago concerning my cousin in law who was a new TW subscriber. on his bill there was a charge for the navigator software. like $2 i believe. i posted here questioning it and if anyone else had seen such a charge as my bill never had the software charge segregated like that. i don't believe i got any answers back then.

Not sure,

But I believe that if you get a package bundle the price of the IPG is already a part of the package. (This is my set up.) If you have ala carte pricing, they might charge a couple bucks extra for the guide. But I am sure this can vary by division.

Jack

ODN v3.1.3_3 seems to be much better on all my boxes.

Not sure,

But I believe that if you get a package bundle the price of the IPG is already a part of the package. (This is my set up.) If you have ala carte pricing, they might charge a couple bucks extra for the guide. But I am sure this can vary by division.

Jack

Checked my bill. Navigator is included in my digitial cable package bundle. WOODY

I have heard from a source I have that both COX Cable and Brighthouse Cable will use the 8642HDC boxes. Also both those units will deploy the Cisco 8600 multi room Dvr box next year as well as the 8600 with the built in dvd burner. Cox is going to use the new Passport guide. Brighthouse uses Navigator. I hear TWC is closely looking at all 3 8600 Cisco boxes. No decision on TWC that I know anything about. I do know the 8642HDC has a 500gb hard drive.My cousin in Florida has one and LOVES it. WOODY.

ODN v3.1.3_3 seems to be much better on all my boxes.

Can you elaborate? What exactly is better? Any new features?

Can you elaborate? What exactly is better? Any new features?

It reduces the amount of Please Wait messages on non DVR boxes. The HDC boxes get a new middleware that fixes the buffer.

It's really just a patch.

I'd reported awhile back on my trials and tribulations with Navigator after my area was converted from Passport last month. Besides the really poor IPG and other issues, my biggest complaint was that my Western Digital My DVR 1TB drive no longer functioned with my 8300HDC box. I reported that I'd swapped out for a 8300HD box, but still found no joy (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17638672#post17638672).

I finally got some time to do some more reading on the topic and am glad to report that I got it working again. I realize most here don't use the 8300HD plus the WD My DVR combination, but I thought I'd post the solution here in case someone else ever needed the info and did a thread search on the topic. Truth is, I think the solution is burried somewhere upthread, but I can't seem to locate it now to give the OP the proper credit.

At any rate, the issue I had was that even after switching the boxes out (HDC for HD) the WD drive just wouldn't mate properly. I figured if I could get it to reformat things would be fine. The solution turned out to be simple. The trick is...after you've got the drive set up per WD's instuctions, you simply unplug the SATA cable from the drive (with everything up and running and fully plugged in)...wait about three seconds...and then plug it back in. As soon as you do this, you'll get an onscreen dialog box asking you if you want to reformat. I hit the button to reformat and less than a minute later, my 1TB of memory was restored. :D

This takes a little bit of the sting out of the "gatoring" for me and my family, but it still doesn't do much for the rest of Navigator's shortcomings. The other main issue for my setup is the loss of the POWER ON NUMERIC option. My HT setup is a bit on the complex side, and this function was important for my RF remote programming. I had the function with Passport as well as with ODN Navigator, but for whatever reason, MDN doesn't have it.

Disclaimer - Not sure this option is still available with the latest ODN updates. The brochure I got when we converted doesn't list it, so it's possible it may have been removed with an update. If anyone cares to confirm one way or the other, I'm sure it would be helpful info to have in the thread.

If I can ever figure out how to get in and change things via my local diagnostic channel, I might be able to get it back. But until then, I'm forced to use a workaround that's a bit of a kludge.

I'd reported awhile back on my trials and tribulations with Navigator after my area was converted from Passport last month. Besides the really poor IPG and other issues, my biggest complaint was that my Western Digital My DVR 1TB drive no longer functioned with my 8300HDC box. I reported that I'd swapped out for a 8300HD box, but still found no joy (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17638672#post17638672).

I finally got some time to do some more reading on the topic and am glad to report that I got it working again. I realize most here don't use the 8300HD plus the WD My DVR combination, but I thought I'd post the solution here in case someone else ever needed the info and did a thread search on the topic. Truth is, I think the solution is burried somewhere upthread, but I can't seem to locate it now to give the OP the proper credit.

At any rate, the issue I had was that even after switching the boxes out (HDC for HD) the WD drive just wouldn't mate properly. I figured if I could get it to reformat things would be fine. The solution turned out to be simple. The trick is...after you've got the drive set up per WD's instuctions, you simply unplug the SATA cable from the drive (with everything up and running and fully plugged in)...wait about three seconds...and then plug it back in. As soon as you do this, you'll get an onscreen dialog box asking you if you want to reformat. I hit the button to reformat and less than a minute later, my 1TB of memory was restored. :D

This takes a little bit of the sting out of the "gatoring" for me and my family, but it still doesn't do much for the rest of Navigator's shortcomings. The other main issue for my setup is the loss of the POWER ON NUMERIC option. My HT setup is a bit on the complex side, and this function was important for my RF remote programming. I had the function with Passport as well as with ODN Navigator, but for whatever reason, MDN doesn't have it.

Disclaimer - Not sure this option is still available with the latest ODN updates. The brochure I got when we converted doesn't list it, so it's possible it may have been removed with an update. If anyone cares to confirm one way or the other, I'm sure it would be helpful info to have in the thread.

If I can ever figure out how to get in and change things via my local diagnostic channel, I might be able to get it back. But until then, I'm forced to use a workaround that's a bit of a kludge.

Are you talking about the power on channel option? If so it is in the 2.4.6-19 version at settings - display - power on channel

I may have a chance to swap HDC for Samsung. Can anybody with experience using both comment on pros/cons? This is what I could piece together reading here:

Pros:
- some models with 320GD hard drive; any idea how to figure out if it actually has 320GB while in TWC store?
- black
- may be more responsive

Cons:
- stretched guide
- actually mutes even with fixed output, so can't use "On with Mute" CC workaround
- may have various smaller bugs not worked out yet (my HDC has ODN 3.1.3_2)

No Samsungs in one of my Milwaukee TWC Kosacks:

But I think the part I have in bold spoken by the CSR counter rep is B.S

******************************************************

Taken From:

http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8568&page=4

" I traded in my Scientific Atlanta 8300HDC HD-DVR Cable box and my Samsung SMT-H3050 HD Cable box and was given the following:

Scientific Atlanta 8240HDC HD-DVR Cable box - Manufactured: 11/18/2009

Scientific Atlanta 4240HDC HD Cable box - Manufactured: 12/02/2009

I asked when I first got there about getting a Samsung DVR box and was told that "you don't want that box because it holds less HD then the Scientific Atlanta DVR because it doesn't compress it and we don't have any in-stock".

This was at the Mayfair mall location in Wauwatosa.

I needed my Samsung SMT-H3050 box swapped anyway because the info bar would get stuck on the screen when changing channels unless you pressed info to turn it off and resetting it would only fix it for a few hours, so I guess it wasn't a total loss.

*************************************

There ARE bugs with the Samsungs, but some of them have the 160GB hard drive and some have a 300GB hard drive. This is the first I heard of the Info bar getting stuck since Riverside Guy reported it several months ago on someone who had a non-DVR box that did that. (A Samsung.)

I would still hold onto any SA boxes that work ok. The Samsungs are doing better in some divisions than others. I have a feeling that my division is going to get the new SA-8500 and/or SA-8600 series DVR's later next year and maybe only use Samsung for the non-DVR boxes. Someone else reported that techs in my area have said there are problems with the Samsung DVR's.

Jack

...

I asked when I first got there about getting a Samsung DVR box and was told that "you don't want that box because it holds less HD then the Scientific Atlanta DVR because it doesn't compress it and we don't have any in-stock".
...

So SA8300HDC compresses HD streams. That's a good one :rolleyes:

I may have a chance to swap HDC for Samsung. Can anybody with experience using both comment on pros/cons? This what I could piece together reading here:

Pros:
- some models with 320GD hard drive; any idea how to figure out if it actually has 320GB while in TWC store?
- black
- may be more responsive

Cons:
- stretched guide
- actually mutes even with fixed output, so can't use "On with Mute" CC workaround
- may have various smaller bugs not worked out yet (my HDC has ODN 3.1.3_2)

If it's a 3270 then it definitely has a 320 GB HDD.

So SA8300HDC compresses HD streams. That's a good one :rolleyes:

LOL!!!! Yea, I thought that was pretty funny! I hope the guy didn't believe that! But the problem is those CSR and counter dolts could tell things that 75% of the general population would believe. I feel bad for many of my relatives and friends who have little to no training or knowledge in this area and would accept b.s like that.

I just wish there was a way to get boards like this accessible to more people!

Jack

I'm the original poster who posted that on MilwaukeeHDTV.org

Yeah, I didn't believe what that CSR told me at all, lol some of the things these CSR's come up with makes you wonder where they get their information from.

I am guessing going by those manufacturing dates and by the lack of knowledge of them by CSR's they are not really trying to push the new Samsung boxes.

Hopefully they come up with an update that restores eSata connectivity for the HDC boxes.
I have tried using a Cavalry 1TB external CAXM3701T0
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822101104
And plugging it into the box after multiple different ways either off or on or unplugged the only thing I could ever get on the screen was a message saying Bad Disk or something and would end up crashing the DVR until the drive was unplugged, yet the drive works fine in my computer through eSata.

Has anyone ever tried swapping out the 160gb hard drive in an 8300HDC or 8240HDC with a larger one?

Has anyone ever tried swapping out the 160gb hard drive in an 8300HDC or 8240HDC with a larger one?I've pointed out before (in this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17376293#post17376293) post, with further discussion later on) that that would be a violation of an agreement which you signed when your cable service was installed (on the paper which you sign at the end of every service call) and which is stated in every paper billing. Given that, "anyone" might not want to admit to doing that in a public online forum :D.

Has anyone ever tried swapping out the 160gb hard drive in an 8300HDC or 8240HDC with a larger one?

There are a number of instances of this working... but up in Canada where things are very different (you own, but don't rent the box). There have been maybe one or two who have claimed this works in the US, but I am very skeptical about those claims.

HOWEVER, it appears this internal swap out CAN work, but only with Samsung 3090 boxes. We have a large number of folks who have successfully upgrade a 3090 drive... BUT only with one very specific brand/size of drive (Seagate Pipeline 320G drives). We think this works because that drive IS usd By Samsung in some 3090s and in their 3270, PIP-less box (which seems to only be distributed in SDX at the present time).

There are a number of tricks CE guys use to indicate such an internal swap has been done (Samsung appears not to do any of these tricks). BUT given that there ARE 3090s w/320G drives and given the swap works with only the same drive Samsung uses, the chances of "being caught" are zilch.

I have a 3270 and it has a 320 GB Seagate Pipeline HDD. Same one used in 320 GB 3090's.

I'm the original poster who posted that on MilwaukeeHDTV.org

Yeah, I didn't believe what that CSR told me at all, lol some of the things these CSR's come up with makes you wonder where they get their information from.

I am guessing going by those manufacturing dates and by the lack of knowledge of them by CSR's they are not really trying to push the new Samsung boxes.

Hopefully they come up with an update that restores eSata connectivity for the HDC boxes.
I have tried using a Cavalry 1TB external CAXM3701T0
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822101104
And plugging it into the box after multiple different ways either off or on or unplugged the only thing I could ever get on the screen was a message saying Bad Disk or something and would end up crashing the DVR until the drive was unplugged, yet the drive works fine in my computer through eSata.

Has anyone ever tried swapping out the 160gb hard drive in an 8300HDC or 8240HDC with a larger one?

Welcome to the Forum!!!!!

I did hear (from this forum) that the 8500HDC's and 8600's HDC's have bigger hard drives installed. I think the 8600HDC has a 500GB hard drive. They are giving them out at TWC's sister company Brighthouse Networks in Florida, and people say they are great!!!

I heard from the grapevine in TWC Corporate that E-SATA support was ACCIDENTALLY broken when they did an ODN (C-box) update. There are approximately three E-SATA drives that people have gotten to work with them, but that is all. A fix for HDC E-SATA support is supposed to be coming first quarter of 2010.

At least TWC corporate may be looking at both the Samsungs and SA (now Cisco) boxes just to have something to fall back on.

A few months ago, well maybe a little more than that, say 5 or 6, I heard someone went to the Cenderberg/Grafton office or maybe it was Southridge, but at any rate, they had a whole bunch of SA-8300 (no C's) on the shelf. So I don't know what's up with that!

On your box, is your Sports Now Category really truncated with the same channels sometimes repeating? The data that I get never shows a total Sports Now line-up. It's usually 0-5 stations, and it will be something like:

RFD TV

Outdoor Channel

ESPN 2

and that's it, and sometimes the shows just repeat. Kids Now! and News and Weather Now are always heavily populated. It's been like that for several months. I have an SA-8300 MDN box.

I hope we get better search options this year. I heard the Sports Now category is being reworked to find Games and Teams.

Jack

I'm the original poster who posted that on MilwaukeeHDTV.org

Yeah, I didn't believe what that CSR told me at all, lol some of the things these CSR's come up with makes you wonder where they get their information from.

I am guessing going by those manufacturing dates and by the lack of knowledge of them by CSR's they are not really trying to push the new Samsung boxes.

Hopefully they come up with an update that restores eSata connectivity for the HDC boxes.
I have tried using a Cavalry 1TB external CAXM3701T0
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822101104
And plugging it into the box after multiple different ways either off or on or unplugged the only thing I could ever get on the screen was a message saying Bad Disk or something and would end up crashing the DVR until the drive was unplugged, yet the drive works fine in my computer through eSata.

Has anyone ever tried swapping out the 160gb hard drive in an 8300HDC or 8240HDC with a larger one?

You can swap the HDC's HDD for a bigger one but it has to be IDE and not SATA but a SATA to IDE converter should do the trick. It will reformat the HDD though if you swap it.

I may have a chance to swap HDC for Samsung. Can anybody with experience using both comment on pros/cons? This is what I could piece together reading here:

Pros:
- some models with 320GD hard drive; any idea how to figure out if it actually has 320GB while in TWC store?
- black
- may be more responsive)
the HDD can be easily seen through the numerous vent holes in the case. they are large enough to read all the info printed on the drive. make model serial number and drive size.
in the pros column. the samsung is a lot quiter than the 8300HD i had. the HDD drive in it was pretty loud. course it could have just been my box but i have read here that others think the samsungs are quieter also.


Cons:
- stretched guide
- actually mutes even with fixed output, so can't use "On with Mute" CC workaround
- may have various smaller bugs not worked out yet (my HDC has ODN 3.1.3_2)

the stretched guide really wasnt an issue for me after i got used to it.

another con. since you are in the carolinas you may have to deal with it not consistantly recording shows on FOX, CBS and occasionally ABC.

the HDD can be easily seen through the numerous vent holes in the case. they are large enough to read all the info printed on the drive. make model serial number and drive size.
in the pros column. the samsung is a lot quiter than the 8300HD i had. the HDD drive in it was pretty loud. course it could have just been my box but i have read here that others think the samsungs are quieter also.



the stretched guide really wasnt an issue for me after i got used to it.

another con. since you are in the carolinas you may have to deal with it not consistantly recording shows on FOX, CBS and occasionally ABC.

Thanks for the info. I was not aware that they still haven't fixed the issue with recording on those channels. That sounds like a deal breaker. I'd like double the space, but if things don't get recorded when they are supposed to, no thanks.

I just switched from DTV to twc and must say I am disappointed with this crap 8300HD. My DTV HR21 dvr worked perfectly and contained a 320GB hard drive. It offered me the ability to search by keyword (title, actor name, release date) etc. It had a full 16:9 program guide that contained 2 weeks worth of data with 12 hour advance buttons for fast searching. It displayed a couple of pages worth of movie/show info and also displayed future showing date/times. The sad thing is that Ive had these features for 2 years and got used them.
I now have this pos 8300 dvr and I find it hard to believe that what is at least two year old technology for DTV is not available with TWC. The 8300 has none of these convenient features and a pretty lack-luster interface. I am located in the Rochester area and I'm wondering if this "navigator" upgrade will make the 8300 comparable to the dtv dvr. After owning the 8300 for less than 1 day, I decided to maintain my DTV service with a minimum programing package so I can keep my HD receivers and DVR plus I am a Sunday ticket subscriber and I want the ability to get it next year if I so desire.
Does anyone know if/when this upgrade is coming to Rochester and if it is worth it for me to stick it out with cable. My reason for switching to TWC is that I have 5 HDTVs in my house and I only had 2 HD receivers with DTV. I didn't want to commit another 2 years of my life to DTV to get the remaining HD receivers at the $99 price and I certainly didn't want to pay $300/each to buy them with no contract. The only plus about the TWC package is that I can get HD on all of my TV's without paying a truckload of $ for equipment.

What would you do if you were in the same boat?

I just switched from DTV to twc and must say I am disappointed with this crap 8300HD. My DTV HR21 dvr worked perfectly and contained a 320GB hard drive. It offered me the ability to search by keyword (title, actor name, release date) etc. It had a full 16:9 program guide that contained 2 weeks worth of data with 12 hour advance buttons for fast searching. It displayed a couple of pages worth of movie/show info and also displayed future showing date/times. The sad thing is that Ive had these features for 2 years and got used them.
I now have this pos 8300 dvr and I find it hard to believe that what is at least two year old technology for DTV is not available with TWC. The 8300 has none of these convenient features and a pretty lack-luster interface. I am located in the Rochester area and I'm wondering if this "navigator" upgrade will make the 8300 comparable to the dtv dvr. After owning the 8300 for less than 1 day, I decided to maintain my DTV service with a minimum programing package so I can keep my HD receivers and DVR plus I am a Sunday ticket subscriber and I want the ability to get it next year if I so desire.
Does anyone know if/when this upgrade is coming to Rochester and if it is worth it for me to stick it out with cable. My reason for switching to TWC is that I have 5 HDTVs in my house and I only had 2 HD receivers with DTV. I didn't want to commit another 2 years of my life to DTV to get the remaining HD receivers at the $99 price and I certainly didn't want to pay $300/each to buy them with no contract. The only plus about the TWC package is that I can get HD on all of my TV's without paying a truckload of $ for equipment.

What would you do if you were in the same boat?
Uh, switch back to DirectTV? :D

humdinger

are you using the latest & greatest navigator software? or are you a directv or cable customer?

humdinger

are you using the latest & greatest navigator software? or are you a directv or cable customer?

I'm a TWC customer (Satellite not an option) and have been for a long time (5+ years, including at my old place). I have the 8300HD legacy DVR box.

I'm in San Diego, CA, so I get the latest software early on. I'm on MDN 2.4.6-19 (although there are reports of a -21 release out there), so that's the latest and greatest for me.

I thought about getting the newer Samsung box (3270 with 320GB drive), but with issues on it (it looks like it's a partially castrated 3090 box) I ain't so sure.

I'm a TWC customer (Satellite not an option) and have been for a long time (5+ years, including at my old place). I have the 8300HD legacy DVR box.

I'm in San Diego, CA, so I get the latest software early on. I'm on MDN 2.4.6-19 (although there are reports of a -21 release out there), so that's the latest and greatest for me.

I thought about getting the newer Samsung box (3270 with 320GB drive), but with issues on it (it looks like it's a partially castrated 3090 box) I ain't so sure.

That’s funny, when twc called to ask me about the installation and to see if I had any issues, I told them that I didn’t like the DVR and asked if there was a different model than the 8300, they said it was the only model they used. I still told them I wanted a different one because the one I got looked as if it was rolling around in the installer’s truck for a month. (Scratches and dings). She said she would put a note on the ticket to get me the newest available (whatever that means). I have only had cable for a grand total of 4 years; this latest run has only been 2 days. The house I lived in prior to this one did not have cable available so I had satellite, (primestar, Dish Network, DIRECTV) but could not get satellite at this house at first because of tree problems at the time. I dropped cable 2 years ago because of the NFL network and their lack of HD programming. Now cable has almost as much HD as dtv and they offered me a sweetheart deal to come back. I just can’t believe how sub par this 8300 is. I've seen screen shots on some of the forums of the navigator software and it looks pretty close to the dtv dvr. If this is the case, I may wait it out since I am still carrying dtv basic as my security blanket. Does your software rev have the features that I listed on my initial post? Since I'm new to cable I don’t fully understand all the lingo (MDN, SARA) etc. All I can deduce is that whatever my box is running is old and outdated.

It offered me the ability to search by keyword (title, actor name, release date) etc.

Not available.

It had a full 16:9 program guide that contained 2 weeks worth of data with 12 hour advance buttons for fast searching.

2 week guide was a promised feature that was dropped. True 16:9 guide not available. Day buttons (or the hidden day jump button combo) are the fastest jump options but only in the guide.

It displayed a couple of pages worth of movie/show info and also displayed future showing date/times.

Not available.

Does anyone know if/when this upgrade is coming to Rochester and if it is worth it for me to stick it out with cable.

Not avail ... I mean, no and no. There's never a confirmed release for any Navigator updates made public until it happens and they never apply to more than one specific market. Any future features exist only in the ether until they actually have a widespread rollout. And even if they do appear they will most likely not meet your expectations.

What would you do if you were in the same boat?

Switch back to sat. Get a Tivo or Moxi. The Navigator situation is unlikely to improve sufficiently in the next year based on the previous years of lackadaisical effort they've put in.

That’s funny, when TWC called to ask me about the installation and to see if I had any issues, I told them that I didn't’t like the DVR and asked if there was a different model than the 8300, they said it was the only model they used. I still told them I wanted a different one because the one I got looked as if it was rolling around in the installer’s truck for a month. (Scratches and dings). She said she would put a note on the ticket to get me the newest available (whatever that means). I have only had cable for a grand total of 4 years; this latest run has only been 2 days. The house I lived in prior to this one did not have cable available so I had satellite, (Prime Star, Dish Network, DIRECTV) but could not get satellite at this house at first because of tree problems at the time. I dropped cable 2 years ago because of the NFL network and their lack of HD programming. Now cable has almost as much HD as DTV and they offered me a sweetheart deal to come back. I just can’t believe how sub par this 8300 is. I've seen screen shots on some of the forums of the navigator software and it looks pretty close to the DTV DVR. If this is the case, I may wait it out since I am still carrying DTV basic as my security blanket. Does your software rev have the features that I listed on my initial post? Since I'm new to cable I don’t fully understand all the lingo (MDN, SARA) etc. All I can deduce is that whatever my box is running is old and outdated.

While there are some new features SUPPOSEDLY coming out next year, such as Keyword Search and better search parameters for the Navigator guide. the problem is that it is up to your local division to install the updates when released. Another problem, is that TWC will probably NEVER had a TIVO type DVR by themselves. The reason is because they have to accommodate the same software to run on all the boxes. The newer versions of the Passport Guide, which TWC dropped rather than having to pay residuals to outside vendors for Switched Digital Video (SDV) and more HD channels was the result of Navigator, TWC's in-house sub-standard IPG, with little more than three years of bug fixes.

If an advanced IPG is really important to you, you should be able to dump your TWC DVR for a Moxi or a Tivo box. You'll have the services of TWC, without that average looking guide, AND with TIVO or Moxi, an IPG that actually LOOKS like 2010 technology and still use TWC as your line-up. I don't know about the cost of the boxes, but that might be your best option.

Jack

Not available.
Switch back to sat. Get a Tivo or Moxi. The Navigator situation is unlikely to improve sufficiently in the next year based on the previous years of lackadaisical effort they've put in.




If an advanced IPG is really important to you, you should be able to dump your TWC DVR for a Moxi or a Tivo box. You'll have the services of TWC, without that average looking guide, AND with TIVO or Moxi, an IPG that actually LOOKS like 2010 technology and still use TWC as your line-up. I don't know about the cost of the boxes, but that might be your best option.

Jack

Switching back is a very likely option since the dtv DVR is far superior to cable, and as I mentioned in my initial post I didn't cancel them, I just downgraded the service to the bare minimum. I'm a bit curious about the tivo/moxi cablecard though. The answer to this question may vary by market but I'll ask anyway: if I ditched the TWC DVR and bought the tivo, does TWC still charge me for dvr service? or do they treat it as just another cablebox? It might be worth a try if the cost of tivo service is offset by not paying twc for dvr service.

if I ditched the TWC DVR and bought the tivo, does TWC still charge me for dvr service? or do they treat it as just another cablebox? It might be worth a try if the cost of tivo service is offset by not paying twc for dvr service.

They'll just charge you for the Cablecard which you will need to access any digital tier channels. Which for me is $2.50 a month.

But you'll probably also have to use one of their horrible Cisco tuning adapters for SDV, which is a pain in itself.

This is my last month with Navigator. I unplugged the box last week and next week it's going back to TWC.

The term "DVR service" is ridiculous anyway since TWC do not provide any additional service to the DVR boxes any more than they do to a regular box. It's just a more palatable way of charging you "$25 for DVR rental" when they can split it into a $8 digital box rental and a $15 "DVR service." It doesn't seem as costly when listed on a bill.

Maccardi,

One of our frequent users, Abyss just got a Tivo box. He had TWC-SARA, which is a WORSE interface than Navigator!!!! He got tired of waiting for the Navigator change-over and in his own words with his TIVO, he "found a new best friend!"

Some of his posts might be earlier about 3-4 pages back in this thread. I think he posted comparison pics of the guide. It was like night and day!!!

Maybe he can help with this in terms of what you need and what he got! I still have regular TWC with the SA-8300 Navigator DVR.

Jack

Maccardi,

One of our frequent users, Abyss just got a Tivo box. He had TWC-SARA, which is a WORSE interface than Navigator!!!! He got tired of waiting for the Navigator change-over and in his own words with his TIVO, he "found a new best friend!"

Some of his posts might be earlier about 3-4 pages back in this thread. I think he posted comparison pics of the guide. It was like night and day!!!

Maybe he can help with this in terms of what you need and what he got! I still have regular TWC with the SA-8300 Navigator DVR.

Jack

I think there are some limitations with Cable Card and a TIVO box with TWC. I heard that you can't get Video on Demand. Is there a workaround for the following below: (Every time they add new channels, TWC puts this on their website:)

"The new services listed below cannot be accessed on CableCARD-equipped Unidirectional Digital Cable Products purchased at retail without additional, two-way capable equipment."

Is this just saying, "Oh you need to rent our crappy boxes for any new channels?" If not, what two-way equipment would be needed other than the TIVO or Moxi box and a cable card?

Jack

I think there are some limitations with Cable Card and a TIVO box with TWC. I heard that you can't get Video on Demand. Is there a workaround for the following below: (Every time they add new channels, TWC puts this on their website:)

"The new services listed below cannot be accessed on CableCARD-equipped Unidirectional Digital Cable Products purchased at retail without additional, two-way capable equipment."

Is this just saying, "Oh you need to rent our crappy boxes for any new channels?" If not, what two-way equipment would be needed other than the TIVO or Moxi box and a cable card?

You can't get any TWC VOD content with card equipped devices but new network channels work just fine. If they are delivered by SDV then you need a tuning adapter as well, but normal distribution methods come through fine with a card.

All the incompatible "new services" they are talking about are things like the multitude of pointless VOD channels they keep adding and their exclusive services like StartOver.

If you're desperate for VOD content from TWC then you need to rent a regular cable box from them. I haven't missed it. Especially with a 500GB drive. You can record a lot more content than you can with a TWC box and combined with Hulu streaming and other VOD sources that gives you plenty of casual viewing options that TWC VOD would fill.

I just switched from DTV to twc and must say I am disappointed with this crap 8300HD.

It all depends on what IPG software you currently have. Craptigator is a step up from SARA, but a step down from Passport.

The 8300HD appears to be the lone TWC box that can actually support an external HDD.

There are some options, TiVo & Moxi. Both have their own threads on avs.

I'm a TWC customer (Satellite not an option) and have been for a long time (5+ years, including at my old place). I have the 8300HD legacy DVR box.

I'm in San Diego, CA, so I get the latest software early on. I'm on MDN 2.4.6-19 (although there are reports of a -21 release out there), so that's the latest and greatest for me.

I thought about getting the newer Samsung box (3270 with 320GB drive), but with issues on it (it looks like it's a partially castrated 3090 box) I ain't so sure.

From all that I've read, it's only 1/2 of Manhattan that has -21... and I happen to be that 1/2! There are some bugs relating to series recording that are only noticeable to those who use series recordings heavily... but they did slipstream some partial solutions a while back.

Indeed, if you like and use PIP the 3270 is castrated, but many don't care to lose this functionality. The good news is the 3090 CAN be field upgraded to a 320G drive. Plus, there now seems to be a few 320G equipped boxes TWC is handing to customers.... but a very small amount.

There actually ARE places where neither satellite nor OTA are options... maybe close to a million potential customers in Manhattan!

Merry christmas and happy holidays to all my friends on this board woody

I don't know about the cost of the boxes, but that might be your best option.

Jack

Aw, sure you do Jack! As of this fall, they are more economical than ever before... Moxi went from 800 to 500 (no monthly fee) and then TiVo went from 650 to 500 for their HD XL box.

They'll just charge you for the Cablecard which you will need to access any digital tier channels. Which for me is $2.50 a month.

But you'll probably also have to use one of their horrible Cisco tuning adapters for SDV, which is a pain in itself.

This is my last month with Navigator. I unplugged the box last week and next week it's going back to TWC.

The term "DVR service" is ridiculous anyway since TWC do not provide any additional service to the DVR boxes any more than they do to a regular box. It's just a more palatable way of charging you "$25 for DVR rental" when they can split it into a $8 digital box rental and a $15 "DVR service." It doesn't seem as costly when listed on a bill.

One issue is I think all "triple/double play" prices include the cost of a non DVR STB. I've yet to see anything definitive TWC would reduce that cost if one went with TiVo/Moxi and had NO box from TWC. I strongly suspect they won't adjust that price... BUT there is some value in having a 2 tuner TiVo/Moxi along with another tuner for those who do not have QAM tuner TV sets. AND even if one does, having a non DVR box means one can see ANYTHING across the whole spectrum while you have 2 tuners recording stuff.

If you're desperate for VOD content from TWC then you need to rent a regular cable box from them. I haven't missed it. Especially with a 500GB drive. You can record a lot more content than you can with a TWC box and combined with Hulu streaming and other VOD sources that gives you plenty of casual viewing options that TWC VOD would fill.TiVo gives you a ton of alternatives to cable VOD: downloads from Amazon, Blockbuster, Disney and Jaman (which specializes in independent and foreign films); "instant start" streaming video from Netflix, which you get for free with all but one of their disc rental plans. Of those I use Netflix (I can't remember the last time I used cable rental VOD--perhaps as 4 times since it became available).

Are you talking about the power on channel option? If so it is in the 2.4.6-19 version at settings - display - power on channel
No...both the MDN Navigator (8300HD box) and ODN Navigator (8300HDC box) have that option. The option I'm speaking of is the POWER ON NUMERIC option. This is an important option for use in programming macros for third-party remote controls. Not sure about the Harmony and other remotes, but for the one I use, Universal MX980, this feature enabled sending discrete on and off codes to the cable box.

The SA 8300 boxes do not have discrete Power On and Power Off codes. All they have is a "Power" code that essentially operates as a toggle. The POWER ON NUMERIC option allows the cable box to gain a discrete Power ON code. That is, it allows you to turn on the cable box by sending it a number betwen 1-9. (Coding for the Universal remotes looked like this: POWER/1 )

This function doesn't need to be used in a macro, by the way. Let's say you were to enable the POWER ON NUMERIC option, but you still had the TW remote. If you wanted to turn your cable box on (assuming it was in an off state previously, of course) all you would need to do is hit a number between 1-9 on your keypad.

I realize this option isn't important for the vast majority of TW customers, but for those of us who's remote is an integral part of HD system with multilple viewing options it is. Both Passport and ODN Navigator had it, but MDN Navigator does not.

After the ODN Navigator update, my E-Sata drive no longer worked on the 8300HDC box. Based on reports from others that these drives work with the 8300HD boxes, I switched. As I understand it, the 8300HD boxes run MDN Navigator which, sadly, does not provide the Power On Numeric option.


I heard from the grapevine in TWC Corporate that E-SATA support was ACCIDENTALLY broken when they did an ODN (C-box) update. There are approximately three E-SATA drives that people have gotten to work with them, but that is all. A fix for HDC E-SATA support is supposed to be coming first quarter of 2010.
Jack
This is great news Satch Man. While I'm glad to have my extra 1TB of storage back, not having the power option discussed above is a pain. It would be outstanding if TW gave the 8300HDC boxes the same E-Sata capabilites as the 8300HD boxes. BTW, Having an extra 1TB of storage is a godsend. We don't even think about how much available hard drive space we may have left anymore. We simple record whatever strikes our fancy. Aside from the news, we rarely watch live TV anymore.

Hey guys,

Hope you guys can help me here. I'm helping a friend of mine hooking up her system. TWC came out to connect the SA 4250hdc to her Denon HDMI receiver. For some reasons, we can not get any picture to the TV. All the connections/inputs are correct. Everything works as it should for the bluray player but I just can't get the cablebox to output to the receiver. HDMI cable works fine. I even tried to connect to another input in back of the receiver but still no luck. However, the component output works. In the past, we can access the advanced menu to select HDMI. Is it possible this option is currently turn off in this box? Can we access the advanced menu w/ Navigator? Thanks for your help.

My mind seems to have shut down. Can anyone remind me the new way to access your box to find what version of Navigator you have. Thanks. WOODY

My mind seems to have shut down. Can anyone remind me the new way to access your box to find what version of Navigator you have. Thanks. WOODY

The SHORT WAY is to find the diagnostic channel in your division and scroll through the pages, about six of them to get to the software version. I forgot the long way too!

Merry Christmas!!!

Jack

The SHORT WAY is to find the diagnostic channel in your division and scroll through the pages, about six of them to get to the software version. I forgot the long way too!

Merry Christmas!!!

Jack

I don't think the "way" in one division is always the same as another division, but sometimes it is common. Try these, they may or may not work:

Short Data (typically 6 pages): channel 996
Long Data: Press and hold SEL on remote UNTIL you see a "mail" icon light up on box display, the press the down arrow.

One trick is that it can take a LONG time for it to actually respond to what you do. In the beginning I got frustrated and thought it didn't work. One time I got distracted and saw thatr it could take a good 30 seonds, so after that I did the press and waited... things always woprked, just not quckly.

MERRY CHRISTMAS
...and Happy Holidays to all my buds!

I don't think the "way" in one division is always the same as another division, but sometimes it is common. Try these, they may or may not work:

Short Data (typically 6 pages): channel 996
Long Data: Press and hold SEL on remote UNTIL you see a "mail" icon light up on box display, the press the down arrow.

One trick is that it can take a LONG time for it to actually respond to what you do. In the beginning I got frustrated and thought it didn't work. One time I got distracted and saw thatr it could take a good 30 seonds, so after that I did the press and waited... things always woprked, just not quckly.



In Charlotte we have:

Ch 1611 - One page "Set Top Diagnostics"
Ch 1977 - "Mystro Installer App", which initially shows the same info as Ch 1611, but apparently has more available that requires an "Installer ID" and "Work Order Number" to Access.
The hold SELECT, then DOWN sequence to access the standard MDN or ODN diagnostics.
In addition, the Samsungs offer the following

Hold SELECT, then UP sequence offers the Samsung Diagnostics
Within the Samsung Diagnostics, I also found following front front panel key combinations listed in the GUI demo mode...

Diagnostics: LIST + INFO for 4 seconds (this is the same as SELECT, then UP on the remote)
Update: INFO + EXIT for 2 seconds
Reset: GUIDE + LIST + INFO + EXIT
Unlock: INFO + GUIDE for 2 seconds
Reboot: INFO + VOL UP + VOL DOWN ("Reboot STB" is also a menu selection within the Samsung diagnostics)
Note... other than the Diagnostics, I have not tested these... try at your own risk (but be sure to let us know if something interesting happens ;)).

I stopped by the local TW office on Saturday morning to pick up a non-DVR box for a new bedroom TV. I was concerned about getting some old POS because of some reports I had seen in the Charlotte TWC thread. Turns out the cabinets were stocked full with brand new (12/02/09 date of manufacture) 4250HDC boxes. Works great so far. I have not noticed any lag whatsoever loading the guide or for any other operation, for that matter. The VOD function work perfectly as well.

Seeing a huge stock of brand new HDC boxes also tends to make me believe that we will not be seeing any Samsung 3260 (or 3270 DVR) boxes here.

I stopped by the local TW office on Saturday morning to pick up a non-DVR box for a new bedroom TV. I was concerned about getting some old POS because of some reports I had seen in the Charlotte TWC thread. Turns out the cabinets were stocked full with brand new (12/02/09 date of manufacture) 4250HDC boxes. Works great so far. I have not noticed any lag whatsoever loading the guide or for any other operation, for that matter. The VOD function work perfectly as well.

Seeing a huge stock of brand new HDC boxes also tends to make me believe that we will not be seeing any Samsung 3260 (or 3270 DVR) boxes here.

Here in Greensboro our TWC office is loaded up with 8240HDC units and 4250HDC units. And I do mean loaded. No Samsung units here yet. WOODY

Time Warner gave us a nice Christmas present! Effective Feb 1st our rates are going up $10 a month for the All The Best packages. It should be noted that this has nothing to do with the current Fox dispute.

Oh, and no new services either - No Navigator, no added HD ala the Viacom Networks (Spike, Comedy, MTV, etc.) that other divisions are getting or already have.

Time Warner gave us a nice Christmas present! Effective Feb 1st our rates are going up $10 a month for the All The Best packages. It should be noted that this has nothing to do with the current Fox dispute.



i had a notice in with my last bill. cant find it now. but effective my next bill it looked like every package, tier, and box rental was going up at least $5+. even the charge for a remote control went up.

i had a notice in with my last bill. cant find it now. but effective my next bill it looked like every package, tier, and box rental was going up at least $5+. even the charge for a remote control went up.Yeah, my bill had the same news.

I stopped by the local TW office on Saturday morning to pick up a non-DVR box for a new bedroom TV. I was concerned about getting some old POS because of some reports I had seen in the Charlotte TWC thread. Turns out the cabinets were stocked full with brand new (12/02/09 date of manufacture) 4250HDC boxes. Works great so far. I have not noticed any lag whatsoever loading the guide or for any other operation, for that matter. The VOD function work perfectly as well.

Seeing a huge stock of brand new HDC boxes also tends to make me believe that we will not be seeing any Samsung 3260 (or 3270 DVR) boxes here.

Except those boxes have the infamous "Please wait" message that was mostly fixed in ODN v3.1.3_3.

Except those boxes have the infamous "Please wait" message that was mostly fixed in ODN v3.1.3_3.

I tried to duplicate it but could not.

i had a notice in with my last bill. cant find it now. but effective my next bill it looked like every package, tier, and box rental was going up at least $5+. even the charge for a remote control went up.

I had my promo discount expire at about the same time as TWC was announcing the new increases. I called and told them I wanted price comparable to the Dish bronze package, and that's what I got - for a year, no commitment on my side. That is actually lower price than the one I had with my previous discount.

I tried to duplicate it but could not.

Sometimes it does do that but the 3260 definitely did that with ODN v3.1.3_2. v3.1.3_3 fixed it of course.

I have a question about output resolution. I recently purchased an Onkyo HT-RC160 receiver. I moved the HDMI connection from directly into my Samsung HL67A750 into the Onkyo. The HDMI gets passed through fine, except for one big issue.

The cable box will no longer store my output resolutions. The TV takes 6 seconds to switch from 720p to 1080i, so I disable everything but 1080i in the Navigator setup. If I turn the 8300HDC off and back on, the resolutions are reset to 480p, 720p, and 1080i. This didn't happen before the receiver.

Does anyone know why this is happening and how I can fix it? Thank you!

I would let the box output all the resolutions and look for problems in the receiver settings. Possibly HDMI-CEC.

My mind seems to have shut down. Can anyone remind me the new way to access your box to find what version of Navigator you have. Thanks. WOODY


I hold down the "last" button on the remote for 5-6 seconds and the MDN version number show up in the lower left or right hand corner of the screen. Hold it down again and it goes away. Mine is 2.4.6-19

I have a question about output resolution. I recently purchased an Onkyo HT-RC160 receiver. I moved the HDMI connection from directly into my Samsung HL67A750 into the Onkyo. The HDMI gets passed through fine, except for one big issue.

I connected HDMI from my 8300 to my Onk once. Tried it for a few hours and never did it again.

If your box is anything like the 875 then it hates the handshake process with a variety of devices, especially when changing HD channel formats. I wouldn't bother. You won't gain any improvement visually going through the Onkyo and the audio will not get any better.

Just hook the 8300 to the TV again and run an optical to the Onkyo. It will save time and look the same or possibly better. If you can't get the AUX-out option to work (can't remember what the situation is with that on the HDC) then run component to the TV instead.

Isn't there a resolution reset/switching bug in the HDC? Anyone?

I connected HDMI from my 8300 to my Onk once. Tried it for a few hours and never did it again.

If your box is anything like the 875 then it hates the handshake process with a variety of devices, especially when changing HD channel formats. I wouldn't bother. You won't gain any improvement visually going through the Onkyo and the audio will not get any better.

Just hook the 8300 to the TV again and run an optical to the Onkyo. It will save time and look the same or possibly better. If you can't get the AUX-out option to work (can't remember what the situation is with that on the HDC) then run component to the TV instead.

Isn't there a resolution reset/switching bug in the HDC? Anyone?

I had the same hdmi problem with my Sony HTC-CT100 and TWC 8300HDC and I agree with you with just running HDMI to TV and Optical cable from back of cable box to the Reciever as it works flawlessly that way and I also notice no real difference in picture or sound quality.

I have a question about output resolution. I recently purchased an Onkyo HT-RC160 receiver. I moved the HDMI connection from directly into my Samsung HL67A750 into the Onkyo. The HDMI gets passed through fine, except for one big issue.

The cable box will no longer store my output resolutions. The TV takes 6 seconds to switch from 720p to 1080i, so I disable everything but 1080i in the Navigator setup. If I turn the 8300HDC off and back on, the resolutions are reset to 480p, 720p, and 1080i. This didn't happen before the receiver.

Does anyone know why this is happening and how I can fix it? Thank you!

I tried to connect my 8300HDC like that through my Denon receiver several months ago. At first it seemed to work fine, but then about once a day it would freeze to the point I had to reboot the DVR to get it to work. So, I reverted to HDMI straight to TV and optical to receiver. Like everybody else is saying, just give up on this, it is not worth the hassle.

Just got Navigator installed here on BHN Tampa a few weeks ago. So far, I like it a lot better than the old SARA interface.

One weird thing I noticed is that the audio settings on my versions differs greatly from what I have seen on BHN Orlando. My digital output settings are under devices - digital output on some sort of odd looking menu where as BHN Orlando's version is under the audio settings in the regular interface. Doesn't seem to make a difference, but its odd that they are completely different.

Also, I now have channels in my guide up in the 1000's that are duplicates of the ones in the 600's and 700's. I wonder if they are going to do some channel lineup switching to make the channel order actually make sense and is more in line with what BHN Orlando has.

I hold down the "last" button on the remote for 5-6 seconds and the MDN version number show up in the lower left or right hand corner of the screen. Hold it down again and it goes away. Mine is 2.4.6-19

Damn, how DO folks find such things??

Of COURSE I had to try this... wow, it works! BUT it stays that way... swap around channels and it remains. I then held the Last button the same 3-4-5 and it went away.

Not to mention I'm on the -21 version... which is EXTREMELY limited as it appears to only be used in the northern half of Manhattan.

I had the same hdmi problem with my Sony HTC-CT100 and TWC 8300HDC and I agree with you with just running HDMI to TV and Optical cable from TV to the Reciever as it works flawlessly that way and I also notice no real difference in picture or sound quality.

Uh, if I understand you correctly, you should NOT be getting any multi-channel audio by running it that way. I did the same thing back when I got my HD LCD... HDMI from the cable box to the TV, optical out of the TV to the DVR. Logically it should work.

Yeah, I did get audio... but my AVR would NOT go into DD 5.1. Did a bunch of research to find this is very much by design. The HDMI connection from the cable box "sees" a device that can not decode DD 5.1 (no TVs I know of can)... so it sends PCM (I think in stereo) down the HDMI route to the TV.

Obviously, my AVR does NOT have HDMI, so I was limited in a sense. Went optical from STB to AVR, HDMI to TV and all was fine. Even better, it allowed me to "enable" audio out of my TV... when I had the STB set to DD and my AVR running, I got sound ONLY from my AVR. Late night, I change the STB to HDMI, shut down the AVR and NOW audio appears on the TV.

Yeah, I did get audio... but my AVR would NOT go into DD 5.1. Did a bunch of research to find this is very much by design. The HDMI connection from the cable box "sees" a device that can not decode DD 5.1 (no TVs I know of can)... so it sends PCM (I think in stereo) down the HDMI route to the TV.

It's pretty common now for TVs to decode 5.1 over HDMI. My Sony XBR5 does it and that's 2 years old and the Samsung I picked up last month does it to. With a 5.1 decoding set it makes audio switching much easier since you can leave the STB on HDMI-audio all the time and just turn the TV speakers off when you need to use the receiver.

With my older JVC set that didn't have 5.1 compatibility I was using the DD/Aux-out option we had under Passport to switch between TV audio and AVR. That worked as well, it was just more clunky.

Navigator is now history for me. The 8300 went back today. Now I just have to hope that TWC don't break Moxi compatibility somehow so I can stay away from Navigator.

It's pretty common now for TVs to decode 5.1 over HDMI. My Sony XBR5 does it and that's 2 years old and the Samsung I picked up last month does it to. With a 5.1 decoding set it makes audio switching much easier since you can leave the STB on HDMI-audio all the time and just turn the TV speakers off when you need to use the receiver.

With my older JVC set that didn't have 5.1 compatibility I was using the DD/Aux-out option we had under Passport to switch between TV audio and AVR. That worked as well, it was just more clunky.

Navigator is now history for me. The 8300 went back today. Now I just have to hope that TWC don't break Moxi compatibility somehow so I can stay away from Navigator.

Really? Seems odd to me for a TV to have DD decoding when none I know of can PLAY such audio... so you can set DD on the STB, HDMI to the XBR5, then optical to an AVR and get DD 5.1 on that AVR with the XBR5?

Really? Seems odd to me for a TV to have DD decoding when none I know of can PLAY such audio... so you can set DD on the STB, HDMI to the XBR5, then optical to an AVR and get DD 5.1 on that AVR with the XBR5?

I suppose there could be some out there, and maybe VisionOn has been lucky enough to have had those to play with, but my experience is that virtually all TVs will output DD5.1 ONLY for signals received by their tuners and will not pass through multichannel audio received via HDMI. None of the Samsungs, Panasonics or Sharps I have experience with do.

Really? Seems odd to me for a TV to have DD decoding when none I know of can PLAY such audio... so you can set DD on the STB, HDMI to the XBR5, then optical to an AVR and get DD 5.1 on that AVR with the XBR5?

Well in my case with Nav I set it to HDMI-audio, the handshake detected 5.1 compatibility and that automatically got sent to the optical out too.

On the Moxi I just set the output to Dolby Digital and that gets sent to the AVR and the TV.

Obviously true 5.1 with a stereo TV isn't going to happen but if you have some kind of multichannel processing for simulated surround it wil help, and both the Samsung and Sony have optical out to pass DD to a receiver, which would be an alternative to connecting the AVR directly to a STB or having multiple STB's running to separate inputs on the AVR.

Uh, if I understand you correctly, you should NOT be getting any multi-channel audio by running it that way. I did the same thing back when I got my HD LCD... HDMI from the cable box to the TV, optical out of the TV to the DVR. Logically it should work.

Yeah, I did get audio... but my AVR would NOT go into DD 5.1. Did a bunch of research to find this is very much by design. The HDMI connection from the cable box "sees" a device that can not decode DD 5.1 (no TVs I know of can)... so it sends PCM (I think in stereo) down the HDMI route to the TV.

Obviously, my AVR does NOT have HDMI, so I was limited in a sense. Went optical from STB to AVR, HDMI to TV and all was fine. Even better, it allowed me to "enable" audio out of my TV... when I had the STB set to DD and my AVR running, I got sound ONLY from my AVR. Late night, I change the STB to HDMI, shut down the AVR and NOW audio appears on the TV.

I went back and changed my post after checking my setup and I was wrong, I have HDMI to TV and optical from cable box to AVR. In order to listen to DD 5.1 I have to go to cable box settings and change setting from HDMI to Dolby but doing that makes the 5.1 sound very low. So I use DD PLII 2.0 and it it's much louder for cable broadcasts. Wierd thing is that I use HDMI from DVD to TV and Digital Coax (orange cable) from my DVD player to AVR and DD 5.1 in that configuration has no low volume problem at all so i think it's the cable box sucking at outputting DD 5.1 sound. Another reason to hate the 8300HDC.

I went back and changed my post after checking my setup and I was wrong, I have HDMI to TV and optical from cable box to AVR. In order to listen to DD 5.1 I have to go to cable box settings and change setting from HDMI to Dolby but doing that makes the 5.1 sound very low. So I use DD PLII 2.0 and it it's much louder for cable broadcasts. Wierd thing is that I use HDMI from DVD to TV and Digital Coax (orange cable) from my DVD player to AVR and DD 5.1 in that configuration has no low volume problem at all so i think it's the cable box sucking at outputting DD 5.1 sound. Another reason to hate the 8300HDC.

Go to the DVR settings.. set the Audio Range in Audio to Narrow. I noticed the other settings dropped the volume WAY down (typically I have my AVR around 55, but for those other settings I had to jack it up in the 70s and 80s). And I still feel I get the same kind of wide dynamic range on movies...

Go to the DVR settings.. set the Audio Range in Audio to Narrow. I noticed the other settings dropped the volume WAY down (typically I have my AVR around 55, but for those other settings I had to jack it up in the 70s and 80s). And I still feel I get the same kind of wide dynamic range on movies...

It was set to narrow, i noticed that the narrow was louder even before having the home theater speakers. It's amazing to me how many settings there are in all the diff components which really affect performance. I wonder how many people who don't take the time to investigate the settings are unhappy and suffering from sound and video that is horrid thinking that the equipment is just crap. Too bad we don't live in a just plug in and play world.

Has anyone experienced any issues using an IR repeater system with the SA8300HD? I moved my SA8300HD to a closet with an IR system for all my components and now it is the only device not responding. The emitters indicate a very weak signal (dimly lit) from any of the SA8300HD IR inputs. I was looking to switch to the Samsung box for this reason alone but can't get any clear indication of when we will be getting theses boxes in Kansas City. I assume the new SA boxes will have the same problem. Any ideas or information would be appreciated. (I just spent the better part of a week rewiring my house and now I can't change channels.)

For those in the NC areas having Navigator issues with the Samsung box, I've sent the ABC, CBS, Fox, and possibly NBC issues to my engineering contact who doesn't live in the area in hopes of it getting fixed. I'm sure they'll work out a solution.

Has anyone experienced any issues using an IR repeater system with the SA8300HD? I moved my SA8300HD to a closet with an IR system for all my components and now it is the only device not responding. The emitters indicate a very weak signal (dimly lit) from any of the SA8300HD IR inputs. I was looking to switch to the Samsung box for this reason alone but can't get any clear indication of when we will be getting theses boxes in Kansas City. I assume the new SA boxes will have the same problem. Any ideas or information would be appreciated. (I just spent the better part of a week rewiring my house and now I can't change channels.)

I actually preferred the SA8300HD to the Samsung 3090 I have now, as it had a direct remote input on the rear panel. I find the 3090 with the ir emitter placed directly over the eye, to be a little flaky at times and not respond instantly.

I actually preferred the SA8300HD to the Samsung 3090 I have now, as it had a direct remote input on the rear panel. I find the 3090 with the ir emitter placed directly over the eye, to be a little flaky at times and not respond instantly.

Speaking of remotes, I'm seeing something I find hard to believe! For a LONG time, I notice that when I first fire up the DVR, the remote can NOT communicate with it unless it is about 2 feet away. Within 10-15 minutes, it more normal, although I can NEVER do some things I used to be able to do (like bounce off the read wall, something that years ago worked 100% reliably).

This did NOT seem to change with getting 'gatored. So I figured it's some hardware issue.

BUT, I am now using the remote not much more frequently switch the TV's input (got a PS3 for Xmas). So I'm now noticing the same kind of behavior, only with the TV, not the DVR as needing signals. Which SEEMS to point to the remote itself.

There's no on-off on the remote, so why should it need some form of "warm up" period before it works as expected? I figure the "doesn't work as well" thing is about signal strength and this remote simply does NOT put out a strong enough signal to allow it to bounce off reflective walls like many other remotes have been abkle to do for years and years. Oh, this issue has noting to do with batteries, fresh ones make no difference. AND while it was a few years ago, a new one I got at TWC showed the exact same behavior... which is why I thought the issue may lie in the DVR.

Speaking of remotes, I'm seeing something I find hard to believe! For a LONG time, I notice that when I first fire up the DVR, the remote can NOT communicate with it unless it is about 2 feet away. Within 10-15 minutes, it more normal, although I can NEVER do some things I used to be able to do (like bounce off the read wall, something that years ago worked 100% reliably).

This did NOT seem to change with getting 'gatored. So I figured it's some hardware issue.

BUT, I am now using the remote not much more frequently switch the TV's input (got a PS3 for Xmas). So I'm now noticing the same kind of behavior, only with the TV, not the DVR as needing signals. Which SEEMS to point to the remote itself.

There's no on-off on the remote, so why should it need some form of "warm up" period before it works as expected? I figure the "doesn't work as well" thing is about signal strength and this remote simply does NOT put out a strong enough signal to allow it to bounce off reflective walls like many other remotes have been abkle to do for years and years. Oh, this issue has noting to do with batteries, fresh ones make no difference. AND while it was a few years ago, a new one I got at TWC showed the exact same behavior... which is why I thought the issue may lie in the DVR.This is a known problem with some TVs (expecially Samsung). There was a whole thread on this topic some time ago. The TV, when first turned on, apparently jams the IR for the first 10 minutes or so. Indeed, I have an IR detector app on my Palm TX that squawks for about 10 minutes from 11 feet away for about 12 minutes. My Palm remote can't penetrate it, but my DVR remote usually can.

I really think that there is enough competition from the other cable providers who have already enhanced their IPG features that TWC will be pressured into adding new features to Navigator this year.

Even crappy Cablevision who took away Food Network over a fee carriage dispute has some of those features now:

http://www.optimum.com/io/what/features/index.jsp?ftrack=search

Jack

I actually preferred the SA8300HD to the Samsung 3090 I have now, as it had a direct remote input on the rear panel. I find the 3090 with the ir emitter placed directly over the eye, to be a little flaky at times and not respond instantly.

Can you elaborate on this? I have a Harmony 1000 and RF extender to communicate to my SA8300HD in the cabinet. Are you saying that you connected something like the RF extender directly into the back of the SA8300HD?

I really think that there is enough competition from the other cable providers who have already enhanced their IPG features that TWC will be pressured into adding new features to Navigator this year.Why would they feel pressured? They're not in competition with other cable providers (except AT&T's U-verse in some areas and Verizon's FiOS in a very few places).

Why would they feel pressured? They're not in competition with other cable providers (except AT&T's U-verse in some areas and Verizon's FiOS in a very few places).

And TWC's internet speeds in this area have been below almost every other cableco for years and they've never felt the need to increase the performance.

TWC have there own little non-competitive world to live in. They can do what they like, when they like and where they feel like.

Why would they feel pressured? They're not in competition with other cable providers (except AT&T's U-verse in some areas and Verizon's FiOS in a very few places).

Maybe not other cable providers, but other providers out there who might have easier to use guides. That still counts as competition. The reason why they don't feel enough pressure is there are very few people who are actually disconnecting TWC service because they want better search options in the guide.

However, if 10,000 people saw that there are better guides out there that actually LOOK 2010 and that information was rubbed into TWC's face day after day after day, I think that would be the kind of pressure that they needed to improve the guide.

TWC doesn't even have to do major things to the guide. But it's been four years and it's time to add some features to make the IPG look and function like a modern 2010 search and information platform.

Jack

Just got Navigator installed here on BHN Tampa a few weeks ago. So far, I like it a lot better than the old SARA interface.

One weird thing I noticed is that the audio settings on my versions differs greatly from what I have seen on BHN Orlando. My digital output settings are under devices - digital output on some sort of odd looking menu where as BHN Orlando's version is under the audio settings in the regular interface. Doesn't seem to make a difference, but its odd that they are completely different.

Also, I now have channels in my guide up in the 1000's that are duplicates of the ones in the 600's and 700's. I wonder if they are going to do some channel lineup switching to make the channel order actually make sense and is more in line with what BHN Orlando has.

The placement of audio settings depends on whether you have the ODN version of Navigator (C-boxes and the new Samsungs) OR the MDN version of Navigator called MDN or Mystro. (Non-C box and NOT a Samsung.)

ODN has some audio settings in a sub menu and MDN has audio settings under the regular settings menu.

Since I have only had an MDN box, can anyone tell me how the audio settings are different in ODN? What do ODN boxes have for audio that current MDN boxes do not have?

There are some duplicates of channels because some channels are grouped into packages and some of those packages may overlap. Here in Wisconsin, TWC organized our line-up by Theme. The channels are grouped by 100 increments in terms of Entertainment, Kids and Family, Sports, Movies, Faith and Inspiration, Music....(etc.) It's really good.

We still have the standard cable 2-99 untouched. But what they did was in putting the digital channels 100 and above into themes they made it easier to find. TV Land is on Standard Cable channel 61 AND Digital Channel 114 in the Kids and Family Category.

All HD channels are in the 1000's and if an HD equivalent of a channel is available you just add a "1" to the SD channel number. Weather Channel in SD is 370. Weather Channel-HD is 1370.

And for people who do not have any Digital Tier Subscriptions, Weather Channel is also on Standard Service on channel 64.

Jack

2010 should be the year for Navigator or maybe not. They're probably testing the new branches of each versions for optimum performance.

Can you elaborate on this? I have a Harmony 1000 and RF extender to communicate to my SA8300HD in the cabinet. Are you saying that you connected something like the RF extender directly into the back of the SA8300HD?

Sure. I use a URC MX-810 (http://www.universalremote.com/product_detail.php?model=128) remote with the MRF-350 (http://www.amazon.com/Universal-MRF-350-RF-Base-Station/dp/B000LG3PB4) base station. The front of the MRF-350 is a ir blaster and there are also six addressable ir line outputs on the back. The line outputs can either have a ir emitter plugged in to them that you basically stick on over the "eye" of the component you want to control or you can just use a 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable if your component has a corresponding input. The SA8300HD had such an input on the back. The Sammy 3090 does not. My only remaining component with a direct remote input is my Marantz SR7001 avr.

This is a known problem with some TVs (expecially Samsung). There was a whole thread on this topic some time ago. The TV, when first turned on, apparently jams the IR for the first 10 minutes or so. Indeed, I have an IR detector app on my Palm TX that squawks for about 10 minutes from 11 feet away for about 12 minutes. My Palm remote can't penetrate it, but my DVR remote usually can.

Wow, first time I've heard that! I know I did not have this issue but seemed to "acquire" it, but at this point I cant really say it started when my Sammie first arrived.

They're not in competition with other cable providers (except AT&T's U-verse in some areas and Verizon's FiOS in a very few places).

And therein lies the rub!

Given the amount of "business" flowing through IP pipes, one COULD mount an argument the "system of wires" should be treated much like roads. Sure, there would be a huge long list of issues on both sides of the question, but it an interesting situation to think about.

And TWC's internet speeds in this area have been below almost every other cableco for years and they've never felt the need to increase the performance.

TWC have there own little non-competitive world to live in. They can do what they like, when they like and where they feel like.

Truth be told, in my market they are making a half-assed attempt. They sem to have a very limited section of the city at DOCIS 3.0 (Man South head end I think). Yes faster speeds, but also yes, much more expensive. One has to pay around a hundred bucks to get close to what FiOS seems to offer by default.

Then again, FiOS covers a very, very small section (I'd guess less than 10% of the city) and I have yet to hear of any "new sections" getting wired since the original areas... not to mention I have friends who LIVE in some of those "original" sections who can NOT get service (Verizon won't run down a side street, especially one with mostly brownstone type buildings).

The point being that on paper, TWC seems to have actual competition, but the reality is that they are pretty much in the exact same place they were long before FiOS got close to getting a franchise agreement. They can STILL do what they like, when they like and where they feel like.

Can the 8300HD be configured to stretch 4:3 SD?

Can the 8300HD be configured to stretch 4:3 SD?

Yes.

Yes.

Please provide specific details how to do so, thanks.

Please provide specific details how to do so, thanks.

If your remote has an aspect button then it can easily stretch 4:3 content. It can also zoom in 4:3 content as well. Hope this helps. Just press the aspect button until it stretches the desired content. It won't stretch the HD channels.

Please provide specific details how to do so, thanks.

depending on what TWC have done lately, the cable remote asterisk or # button used to adjust aspect on the fly. I can't remember which now.

Prior to the Navigator upgrade, my Time Warner provided SA8300HD (w/Sara) had a diagnostics mode that allowed me to examine Signal Strength as well as S/N Ratio for individual channels. This was a very helpful diagnostic tool.

Now that Navigaor is loaded on my box I can still get to a diagnostics mode (hold down SEL for a few seconds, then press the down airrow). But I no longer find any Signal Strength or S/N Ratio readings among the available 14 pages of info.

Is there another diagnostic mode that I can invoke? If so, how? Or is there any other way to display Signal Strength and S/N Ratio?

depending on what TWC have done lately, the cable remote asterisk or # button used to adjust aspect on the fly. I can't remember which now.

Changing picture size is really easy in Navigator:

1.) Press Settings on the remote.

2.) Go to Picture Size.

3.) Press Select to choose from Normal. Zoom, or Stretch.

4.) Press Select to Accept the changes, OR C to Return to the Previous Screen, or the Exit button to return to watching TV.

5.) The system may or may not reboot. If it reboots, wait till the correct time shows on the screen.

6.) All SD channels will now take the position shown by the Picture Size Preference.

Note: For best results, leave your TV remote picture size alone and use the CABLE BOX remote to make the picture size adjustments. In other words, start with your TV remote (assuming it is an HDTV) and set picture size on your TV remote to NORMAL and the screen resolution to 16x9. Than use the cable remote to adjust picture size.

If you try to do a picture stretch for example with both the TV remote and the cable box remote, your picture will be double-stretch, or if you zoom on both, it will be double-zoomed. If you have cable, let the cable box select the picture size.

Jack

Changing picture size is really easy in Navigator:
Thanks, we'll see if that works.

Prior to the Navigator upgrade, my Time Warner provided SA8300HD (w/Sara) had a diagnostics mode that allowed me to examine Signal Strength as well as S/N Ratio for individual channels. This was a very helpful diagnostic tool.

Now that Navigaor is loaded on my box I can still get to a diagnostics mode (hold down SEL for a few seconds, then press the down airrow). But I no longer find any Signal Strength or S/N Ratio readings among the available 14 pages of info.

Is there another diagnostic mode that I can invoke? If so, how? Or is there any other way to display Signal Strength and S/N Ratio?

Hmmm, that's odd. I have the same 8300HD/MDN box and I get 28 pages. Same way of getting into it, but I find page 5 to have signal strength... of course, they call it "Power Level."

The placement of audio settings depends on whether you have the ODN version of Navigator (C-boxes and the new Samsungs) OR the MDN version of Navigator called MDN or Mystro. (Non-C box and NOT a Samsung.)

ODN has some audio settings in a sub menu and MDN has audio settings under the regular settings menu.

Since I have only had an MDN box, can anyone tell me how the audio settings are different in ODN? What do ODN boxes have for audio that current MDN boxes do not have?

There are some duplicates of channels because some channels are grouped into packages and some of those packages may overlap. Here in Wisconsin, TWC organized our line-up by Theme. The channels are grouped by 100 increments in terms of Entertainment, Kids and Family, Sports, Movies, Faith and Inspiration, Music....(etc.) It's really good.

We still have the standard cable 2-99 untouched. But what they did was in putting the digital channels 100 and above into themes they made it easier to find. TV Land is on Standard Cable channel 61 AND Digital Channel 114 in the Kids and Family Category.

All HD channels are in the 1000's and if an HD equivalent of a channel is available you just add a "1" to the SD channel number. Weather Channel in SD is 370. Weather Channel-HD is 1370.

And for people who do not have any Digital Tier Subscriptions, Weather Channel is also on Standard Service on channel 64.

Jack

Thanks for the reply and information. As far as I can tell, my ODN has the exact same settings as your MDN box, but they are just located under the devices sub menu instead of audio. I did notice that when selecting DD 5.1 as my digital output that powering the box off and then back on resets it to HDMI, but my receiver still receives DD 5.1 through the optical cable. Probably a bug.

I really hope the reorganize the channels here in Tampa because having ESPN2 on 704 and ESPN on 707 with 2 non sports channels in between them makes no sense.

I have an 8300HD box using MDN. I have an Apricorn 1TB external attached. I'm getting short bursts of pixelization on our local HD channels. This is pretty annoying, as the sound is affected too. The problem does not occur when the cable is hooked directly to the TV or if I unhook the hard drive. I've tried 2 different hard drives too, with the same problem occurring. Any suggestions?

When I got up this morning all two of my cable boxes that I never turn off were off as if something had been done in the middle of the night....I found nothing had changed...anyone else have this?....I was hoping that we would at least have BBCAmericaHD and the east coast feeds of all the premium channels that we were promised but noooo....

When I got up this morning all two of my cable boxes that I never turn off were off as if something had been done in the middle of the night....I found nothing had changed...anyone else have this?....I was hoping that we would at least have BBCAmericaHD and the east coast feeds of all the premium channels that we were promised but noooo....

Check the diagnostics to see when it last booted.

They DO seem to slipstream updates without changing any version numbers. When I got 'gatored, I ended up with a MDN version nobody else has (except for HD boxes in Northern Manhattan). It had some major issues with series recordings which I complained about and kept being told it was some oddity of my box. Then one day I noticed it had rebooted all by itself (not to mention that in the first two weeks, it was rebooting/crashing a LOT, but that was while using it). Following that "event" the series recordings adhered much more closely to what I was told to expect AND the spontaneous reboots (actually I consider those as the OS crashing) became rarer.

Then one day I noticed it had rebooted all by itself (not to mention that in the first two weeks, it was rebooting/crashing a LOT, but that was while using it). Following that "event" the series recordings adhered much more closely to what I was told to expect AND the spontaneous reboots (actually I consider those as the OS crashing) became rarer.

Or the Oompa-Loompas just decided to leave Riverside's box! LOL!

Jack

llabine1:

Up the road here in Hawthorne, CA TWC updated my box to ODN 3.1.3_3 on the same night. Check channel 199 or the usual SEL-down arrow button press for diagnostics to compare...

IIRC I haven't seen TWC reboot my box to add/change the channel lineup....

Here is my prediction (pure speculation) of when new Navigator features could come out. Maybe a cool person at TWC can sort of hint on the forum at how close this is to reality.

I think the things that we will see with regards to the updates are the following. (Don't quote me on this.) It's just speculation at this point:

Approximate New Navigator Features Time Table:

(Contingent on the responsibility of EACH division to apply the updates and stick to the schedule.)

1.) Longer guide show descriptions with greater detail. (Actors, Directors, etc.) This is already in several test markets. San Diego is testing this now. It should be in the next MDN/ODN update. Descriptions won't "cut off anymore."

2.) Cursor begins on program being watched when starting any searches or browsing in the time grid to start a search. Also the elimination of obvious duplicate program lists to make searches easier (Also in next update. Hopefully first quarter of this year.)

3.) Newest Tune Comes to MDN boxes. (First to second quarter of the year.)

4.) The Keyboard gets Keyword Search and the Sports Now Category is expanded to include Keyword Search by games and teams. You will also be able to type in the name of a network and get a program list. (Second quarter of the Year.)

5.) Than remote DVR Management/Manual Recording (Third quarter of this year.)

6.) Multi-Room DVR Management (Samsung and new SA/Cisco 8500-8600 boxes only.) (Fourth Quarter this year to First quarter 2011.)

TWC will probably start with the new Navigator features after finishing up the additions of the new Viacom HD channels.. They will be looking to add the missing Passport features first, looking to make searches easier. THAN possibly we will see the rest of the updates later this year.

If all goes well, this will be a huge year for Navigator updates.

Jack