Adding search options won't make it like Passport. The entire GUI of Navigator would have to be redesigned first - or actually designed to being with.

Search options won't add the timecode back in a logical place along the progress bar or add visually appealing icons, better use of fonts, quick settings menu, better main menu design etc.

Prehaps not. I used to have Passport at my beach house and enoyed it. SARA at my main home almost made me ill to use. It's a matter of personal taste but I prefer the Navigator GUI to Passport. Now I want the return of keyword search, manual recording ect. In those areas Passport was superior. More work on Navigator does need to e done. However I like the look of Navigator better than I did Passport and vastly better than SARA. Just my opinion which I am intitled to. WOODY

I still stand by my quote. "COMPARED TO SARA NAVIGATOR IS TIVO" Yes I have used Passport and it was a great guide. But SARA is no Navigator.No bud,SARA is MUCH BETTER than Navigator!! (IN EVERY WAY)

Easier to navigate,easier to understand :)

No bud,SARA is MUCH BETTER than Navigator!! (IN EVERY WAY)

Easier to navigate,easier to understand :)

Can't argue against your perception/opinion... you see what you see and like what you like... but I believe you would be in a VERY small minority with that opinion.

SARA was never even meant to be an interface to be used by the general public... it was a developed by SA engineers/programmers (who had neither graphics nor human interface backgrounds) as a proof of concept to demonstrate to real GUI programmers how to access the low level APIs in the box's middleware. It is neither pretty nor particularly intuitive to use, but it does work because that's all it was supposed to do... demonstrate functionality. Partly because it was cheap and partly because it is reliable, several cable ops ended up deploying it.

remember: "he who goes first, sets the standard"

anything after that just plain works wrong (in everyone's mind)

So very true... whether it's truly better or worse, whichever guide you "grew up with" shapes your perceptions and thought processes as to how the guide should function... even the workarounds you develop for its shortcomings become "normal". Just like Dude111 has SARA ingrained and everything else is wrong, I've never had anything else other than ODN and everything else - even the much beloved Passport - seems wrong/foreign to me.

So very true... whether it's truly better or worse, whichever guide you "grew up with" shapes your perceptions and thought processes as to how the guide should function... even the workarounds you develop for its shortcomings become "normal".

++ So true. I miss Passport and even though I find the TiVo interface not spectacular I know I'd hate going to another interface now....I'm addicted to simply hitting "direction left" to go back or stop playback of a show and having the channel +/- controls do page up and down as well (why isn't this standard everywhere!? why have a separate button?)

I'm curious as to what the production date of your 8300HDC is/was. The 8300HDC I traded in for my 3090 actually was built the same month as the 3090 (Oct '08) and it was not slow at all running ODN 3.1.x. The Samsung was slightly faster, but the I never got frustrated by the HDC. It was certainly not nearly as bad as MDN was on the Pioneer HD non-DVR box I had before the HDC... now THAT was sloooow.

My 8300HDC is running ODN v3.2.0_15. I had a Pioneer SD box running ODN and it was definitely slow. The PQ was also garbage. The Samsung 3260 has much better PQ. Even the 3250HD is better.

No bud,SARA is MUCH BETTER than Navigator!! (IN EVERY WAY)

Easier to navigate,easier to understand :)

Yours I belive is the MINIORITY REPORT. Sorry bud Navigator is just much better than SARA.

Does anyone know what version builds for TWC-Navigator are currently being deployed to converted SARA subs in various updated Ohio and New York City markets? (MDN/ODN?)

Jack

It's Albany, NY.

I'm in the Albany NY area and I have the new Cisco 8640. The software version is 1.4.5.1205 (date: 10/15/09) for the Image File, 8.5.15.101 (date: 9/30/09) for the OS, and 3.1.3_3 (date: 11/19/09) for ODN. The hard drive is 320GB and the on-screen guide is 4:3, not 16:9. Also, I didn't know this box ran on Linux! It lists the Linux version number in here as 1.2.17.20102, dated 12/31/95.

I haven't had a chance to really play with it yet but it definitely feels snappier than my previous 8300HDC (that thing sucked). I'm also digging how you can search for shows with the on-screen keyboard, finally!

No thats not the ODN version. To get the ODN version you have to press select until the mail light comes on then press the down key on the remote.

No thats not the ODN version. To get the ODN version you have to press select until the mail light comes on then press the down key on the remote.

Check my post again, I updated it with ODN version literally one minute before you replied, haha. Good timing. :)

Well, well, well...

Albany, NY updated the 8300HD DVRs and now people are reporting good things:

chris writes:

My 8300HD DVR was updated today at about 2:30am. It took about 15 minutes for it to complete and it rebooted twice. It seems to be running MUCH faster on the 8300 than it was on of the other non-dvr boxes I use. I'm actually impressed with how the 8300 handles it.

mjbanks writes:

I got the update on my 8300HD but NOT my 8300HDC. It's running MUCH better than on my non-dvr box, like chris and adam mentioned above. Liking the series recording options a lot. No complaints here, except a small dislike that you can't hit B on the guide to change dates. I use a Harmony remote and don't have the Day buttons mapped to the activity.

and

I ABSOLUTELY LOVE that after fast forwarding and hitting play, it snaps back a few seconds instead of playing exactly where you hit play. Makes it much easier to fast forward through commercials and not have to rewind because you went too far.


and the best news I've heard so far comes from UsualNoise, who writes:

I've been on vacation and arrived home to find the new interface (which was a pleasant surprise). I haven't had a lot of time actually using it yet, but reading this thread got me a bit worried since I have an eSATA 500 GB drive with lots of programming on it hooked up to one of my two 8300HDs. Glad to report so far all my saved programming is working correctly. (At least the 2009 World Series games I have played back.)

One gripe in limited time is the lack of a super fast fast-forward. Our last interface had added the 4th fast-forward speed which came in very handy. From what I can tell there is no such speed with the new interface. Correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway, so far so good on the eSATA issue.

So on 8300HD DVR's the reviews seem to be good. I'm VERY pleased to hear that eSATA wasn't lost. I'll be interested to know how the 8640HDC handles it.

I ABSOLUTELY LOVE that after fast forwarding and hitting play, it snaps back a few seconds instead of playing exactly where you hit play. Makes it much easier to fast forward through commercials and not have to rewind because you went too far.

Has SARA never had that? That was a feature on Passport Echo from the first time I used it.

What did they think about auto-correcting the rewind by jumping forward though? ;)

Well, well, well...

Albany, NY updated the 8300HD DVRs and now people are reporting good things:

mjbanks writes:

I got the update on my 8300HD but NOT my 8300HDC. It's running MUCH better than on my non-dvr box, like chris and adam mentioned above. Liking the series recording options a lot. No complaints here, except a small dislike that you can't hit B on the guide to change dates. I use a Harmony remote and don't have the Day buttons mapped to the activity.

For future reference for YOUR upgrade (and/or let 'em know on the Albany site)... Easier than using the day buttons to navigate the guide is to press a number (of days to advance) and then press Left or Right. Easier than scrolling with the DAY +/- buttons... you can directly jump multiple days in one shot. I originally programmed the Day buttons in my Harmony but removed them once I learned the other trick.

Has SARA never had that? That was a feature on Passport Echo from the first time I used it.

What did they think about auto-correcting the rewind by jumping forward though? ;)

Only posting what they are commenting on right now. SARA DOES NOT have the jump back feature. In fact, my wife constantly has to manually rewind because of this. I think she'll like that feature.

For future reference for YOUR upgrade (and/or let 'em know on the Albany site)... Easier than using the day buttons to navigate the guide is to press a number (of days to advance) and then press Left or Right. Easier than the DAY +/- buttons and you can jump multiple day in one shot. I originally programmed the Day buttons in my Harmony but removed them once I learned the other trick.

Will do! Thanks.

For future reference for YOUR upgrade (and/or let 'em know on the Albany site)... Easier than using the day buttons to navigate the guide is to press a number (of days to advance) and then press Left or Right. Easier than scrolling with the DAY +/- buttons... you can directly jump multiple days in one shot. I originally programmed the Day buttons in my Harmony but removed them once I learned the other trick.

That's a very old trick from Passport days. That was because the earlier remotes never had day buttons.

I have to ask this though:

Wouldn't it just be easier to use the keyboard search to find your show? This is probably my MAIN gripe with SARA (next to butt ugliness, non 16:9 non customizable, etc). SARA had NO search. Sure they say it did, but it didn't. It was basically the same as hitting the guide button only titles were listed in alphabetical order and only showings for the current day.

Aside from all this, I have to say the incoming reports of it working well with the 8300HD have me psyched. I'm hoping to get feedback on the 8640HDC and eSata support next. I'm anxious to get my hands on an 8640 as well.

I have to ask this though:

Wouldn't it just be easier to use the keyboard search to find your show? This is probably my MAIN gripe with SARA (next to butt ugliness, non 16:9 non customizable, etc). SARA had NO search. Sure they say it did, but it didn't. It was basically the same as hitting the guide button only titles were listed in alphabetical order and only showings for the current day.

Not for me. Navigator threw back a mess of titles (slowly) that were hard to distinguish between without clicking on each individually.

For example searching "Watchmen" would bring up listings for "Watchmen" and "Watchmen" but you would only know that one was on HBO and the other on HBO Latino when you drilled down into the list.

It might have changed since then but it's dog slow performance and results meant I never used it.

Not for me. Navigator threw back a mess of titles (slowly) that were hard to distinguish between without clicking on each individually.

For example searching "Watchmen" would bring up listings for "Watchmen" and "Watchmen" but you would only know that one was on HBO and the other on HBO Latino when you drilled down into the list.

It might have changed since then but it's dog slow performance and results meant I never used it.

That's exactly why you need guide preference. This way you can dump channels from the guide you would never watch. I believe Dish worked like this when I had it. I could keyboard search and it would return only items for the guide I had selected... and this WAS 10 YEARS AGO!!!!

I have a question for heavy users of series recording. Last week, I had a situation where there were three 10pm shows I wanted to record. One of them was a cable show that is continually reshown throughout the week. It's listed below the other two in my priority listing but was shown as having a conflict with the 10pm slot. Is the software not able to figure out a solution on its own?

A couple of weeks before that, with the same situation, I tried redoing the whole series recording by scheduling the repeat showing at 1am ET but the next week reverted to 10pm. Since I'm far from being a Navigator fan, I may be assuming the worst but I had assumed that there was at least enough logic to the software that it could solve this kind of problem.

Thanks in advance for any input.

One would think so seeing as how program descriptions are identical except for the "NEW" flag (at least on SARA). The guide should be able to automatically resolve the conflict by finding future recordings and listing them as options to select. I know SARA does not do this and I constantly have to find later showings and manually set them. It really is a pain in the a**!

I have a question for heavy users of series recording. Last week, I had a situation where there were three 10pm shows I wanted to record. One of them was a cable show that is continually reshown throughout the week. It's listed below the other two in my priority listing but was shown as having a conflict with the 10pm slot. Is the software not able to figure out a solution on its own?

A couple of weeks before that, with the same situation, I tried redoing the whole series recording by scheduling the repeat showing at 1am ET but the next week reverted to 10pm. Since I'm far from being a Navigator fan, I may be assuming the worst but I had assumed that there was at least enough logic to the software that it could solve this kind of problem.

Thanks in advance for any input.

It will list the conflict until the conflict has passed... THEN it will reschedule the bumped show if it can find another. Just ignore the conflict and it will work itself out as long as your lowest level priority in the conflicting set of shows has an additional showing of that episode.

When you tried forcing it to the 1am showing, did you just pick that showing and hit "record series"? If you do that, it WILL record the first available showing, irrespective of time slot. If you want to always record a particular time slot, then you have to set that as a series recording option.

With 40 or so series set up in my DVR, I only had to resort to specifying a time slot for one show... NFL Live... not because of conflicts, but because with non-episodic programming it will record every showing, repeat or otherwise.

One would think so seeing as how program descriptions are identical except for the "NEW" flag (at least on SARA). The guide should be able to automatically resolve the conflict by finding future recordings and listing them as options to select. I know SARA does not do this and I constantly have to find later showings and manually set them. It really is a pain in the a**!

It does just that... but not until after the initial conflict has passed. I have several three-show conflicts and it always works out correctly with no user intervention whatsoever.

You ARE, of course, screwed if all three shows are network shows that don't repeat, but that is not the fault of Navigator's conflict resolution system. For those, I just use my old (SD) Panasonic DVR or, more recently, the Media PC plus HD HomeRun network tuner to record a clear QAM broadcast HD or OTA HD. (One HD HomeRun tuner is connected to cable, the other to my attic antenna).

Not for me. Navigator threw back a mess of titles (slowly) that were hard to distinguish between without clicking on each individually.

For example searching "Watchmen" would bring up listings for "Watchmen" and "Watchmen" but you would only know that one was on HBO and the other on HBO Latino when you drilled down into the list.

It might have changed since then but it's dog slow performance and results meant I never used it.

That's mild compared with trying to find a particular game and seeing several dozens of "College Football" headings you need to drill down to.

Hello,
I was just "upgraded" to Navigator. I have a question on HBO On-Demand.

How do I delete the In-Progress List?

Thanks

Hello,
I was just "upgraded" to Navigator. I have a question on HBO On-Demand.

How do I delete the In-Progress List?

Thanks

AFAIK, it just goes away after a certain timeout period (hours, not days). I don't think it's a big deal that it's there unless you are trying to do some "covert" viewing.;)

AFAIK, it just goes away after a certain timeout period (hours, not days). I don't think it's a big deal that it's there unless you are trying to do some "covert" viewing.;)

LOL, that was probably integrated into Navigator by one of TWC's female engineers trying to catch her husband watching some Katie Morgan shows:eek:

That's mild compared with trying to find a particular game and seeing several dozens of "College Football" headings you need to drill down to.

If I could pick one of my major pet peeves with Navigator, the above post illustrates it perfectly! What a PITA! Navigator needs simpler search solutions to deal with these types of issues:

Keyword Search
Ability to search for specific games or teams within a sports category.
An easier to find method, rather than having to open up each tier of a title when multiple listings of a show are involved.

In the example above, looking for College Football, looking for any sport by a title search is too generic. What Navigator should do is BOTH of the following in a future software update:

Keyword Search: So that any part of a game or team will be returned as you key in the game or team name. As you key, the ability to narrow results to make finding what customers want easier.

Update the Theme Category to go like this:

1.) Press B to "Find Shows" enter KeyWord relating to game or sports event OR

2.) Press B a second time for Category Search-Select Theme, Select Sports, Select Football, Baseball, Basketball. But for each team sport category there is a horizontal option that says GAME or TEAM. Scroll to that and you actually get a list of specific games in chronological order that you would want to see on the left side of the screen. Under #2's example above:

2.a. The first option gives you a title of the sports based on the sport selected from a list. (like it is now) BUT.

2.b. A second option in the horizontal scroll menu not yet available, would list games or teams. Selecting that, brings up the chronological list of games or teams showing within the half hour to the next several days for that sport on the left that you want to watch.

Jack

For those interested, I have a report from the Albany Forum with the build info they deployed to the 8300HD boxes. (Thanks to member UsualNoise)

PTV: v6.14.96.1sp Wed Oct 8 2008
Apps...
Res / DAM: 2.4.6-19-ptv (Mt. Sherman) May 11 2009
PE: 3.13 (MDN 2.5dev) Mar 4 2009
Host: 1.38 MDN 2.4 May 11 2009

These dates are almost a YEAR old? What took so long to get it deployed?

Also for the 8640HDC, member tehmiker added:

I'm in the Albany NY area and I have the new Cisco 8640. The software version is 1.4.5.1205 (date: 10/15/09) for the Image File, 8.5.15.101 (date: 9/30/09) for the OS, and 3.1.3_3 (date: 11/19/09) for ODN. The hard drive is 320GB and the on-screen guide is 4:3, not 16:9. Also, I didn't know this box ran on Linux! It lists the Linux version number in here as 1.2.17.20102, dated 12/31/95.

I've had the 8300HD-DVR for a few years now. Should I exchange it for a newer model... do the newer models have larger hard drives?

I've had the 8300HD-DVR for a few years now. Should I exchange it for a newer model... do the newer models have larger hard drives?

I had the 8300HDC for years as well but yesterday I finally swapped for the new Cisco 8640HDC. It feels faster, has a bigger hard drive (320GB), comes pre-installed with the new Navigator which I like better than SARA, and it just looks way nicer on my shelf than the 8300 did.

I've had the 8300HD-DVR for a few years now. Should I exchange it for a newer model... do the newer models have larger hard drives?
NNNNOOOOO!!!!!!!! Keep the 8300HD!!!!!

It runs MDN, which is head over heals faster and less buggy than the ODN ("HDC") boxes.

Unless your area is intentionally blocked, the 8300HD will also work with an external SATA:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=516559
Get a 500-1000 GB "DVR Expander" drive from WD, Iomega or Apricorn....or DIY from what works:
http://www.baseportal.com/baseportal/xnappo/navigator
Note that WD "My Book" does NOT work....

I have to ask this though:

Wouldn't it just be easier to use the keyboard search to find your show?

Part of the issue is the search function looks ONLY at the title of the show, as it is listed in the guide. AND the letters you type in can only be found if they are the FIRST letters in said title.

Not to mention most humans listed in the guide are no longer (with a few exceptions). Still, there are NO director names anywhere... so you can't search on Stanley Kubrick like I used to be able to do for the past 5-7 years.

Add in the lost functionality of selecting a show in the guide and with one button press, getting all instances of that show... something I used to do ALL the time in the Passport days! That being said, such a feature seems to have shown up for some... BUT it could be a LONG time before everyone gets that software update.

It will list the conflict until the conflict has passed... THEN it will reschedule the bumped show if it can find another. Just ignore the conflict and it will work itself out as long as your lowest level priority in the conflicting set of shows has an additional showing of that episode.

What I did (got 40-50 of those series recordings!) was take the time to order the priority list... I group it by day, with network shows that do not repeat being listed above cable shows that do have repeats. Makes it a lot easier to deal with once it's ordered.

Not to mention I HAVE on occasion moved that priority to deal with unusual situations. Or in the case of three network shows at the same time (Monday is the worst day) I'll arrange the priority to having an easily found show being the one that really does not get recorded.

I had all sorts of issues with this system at first because I was manually doing resolutions... that is a BAD thing. Use the priority list so the box can make it's own decisions.

It does just that... but not until after the initial conflict has passed. I have several three-show conflicts and it always works out correctly with no user intervention whatsoever.

You ARE, of course, screwed if all three shows are network shows that don't repeat, but that is not the fault of Navigator's conflict resolution system. For those, I just use my old (SD) Panasonic DVR or, more recently, the Media PC plus HD HomeRun network tuner to record a clear QAM broadcast HD or OTA HD. (One HD HomeRun tuner is connected to cable, the other to my attic antenna).

I wish I could do that, but no OTA, nor QAM here (TV is long in the tooth), so I have to resort to finding a digital file. Now that I got a PS3 as a present, I can take that file and play it on the TV and find I am shocked at how good is really looks (this works nicely if you aren't too close to the screen, I'm 8' with a 40" screen).

NNNNOOOOO!!!!!!!! Keep the 8300HD!!!!!

It runs MDN, which is head over heals faster and less buggy than the ODN ("HDC") boxes.

Unless your area is intentionally blocked, the 8300HD will also work with an external SATA:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=516559
Get a 500-1000 GB "DVR Expander" drive from WD, Iomega or Apricorn....or DIY from what works:
http://www.baseportal.com/baseportal/xnappo/navigator
Note that WD "My Book" does NOT work....

100% agree! My 8300HD is quite old, has been in constant service for (I think) 5+ years. Once you separate any issues with the MDN software, it's really a very stable box... I have none of the issues that seem to regularly plague HDC or Sammy users.

For a long time, I was thinking about a Sammie... so I didn't go and get an external HDD that CAN work on a 8300HD/MDN box, but as I waited I saw increasing issues reported that I never see (money is also kind of a factor in my case). I also seemed to drop into a mode of being very aggressive about watching what I record much quicker than most.. so I rarely have more than 4-5 hours waiting to be seen... or less, I think I have 3 hours right now.

What I did (got 40-50 of those series recordings!) was take the time to order the priority list... I group it by day, with network shows that do not repeat being listed above cable shows that do have repeats. Makes it a lot easier to deal with once it's ordered.

Not to mention I HAVE on occasion moved that priority to deal with unusual situations. Or in the case of three network shows at the same time (Monday is the worst day) I'll arrange the priority to having an easily found show being the one that really does not get recorded.

I had all sorts of issues with this system at first because I was manually doing resolutions... that is a BAD thing. Use the priority list so the box can make it's own decisions.

I just have all of the broadcast series at the top, then regular cable series, then pay cable series. Otherwise I never play with them once they are set. The only "trickery" I've resorted to was to schedule some of the pay cable series off of the West feeds... this was not to make the system work but just to get the show recorded sooner (3 hours later instead of waiting for the next East showing).

...Add in the lost functionality of selecting a show in the guide and with one button press, getting all instances of that show... something I used to do ALL the time in the Passport days! That being said, such a feature seems to have shown up for some... BUT it could be a LONG time before everyone gets that software update.

It showed up in ODN 3.2.x. AFAIK, only Charlotte and San Diego have received 3.2 to date.

If I could pick one of my major pet peeves with Navigator, the above post illustrates it perfectly! What a PITA! Navigator needs simpler search solutions to deal with these types of issues:

Keyword Search
Ability to search for specific games or teams within a sports category.
An easier to find method, rather than having to open up each tier of a title when multiple listings of a show are involved.

In the example above, looking for College Football, looking for any sport by a title search is too generic. What Navigator should do is BOTH of the following in a future software update:

Keyword Search: So that any part of a game or team will be returned as you key in the game or team name. As you key, the ability to narrow results to make finding what customers want easier.

Update the Theme Category to go like this:

1.) Press B to "Find Shows" enter KeyWord relating to game or sports event OR

2.) Press B a second time for Category Search-Select Theme, Select Sports, Select Football, Baseball, Basketball. But for each team sport category there is a horizontal option that says GAME or TEAM. Scroll to that and you actually get a list of specific games in chronological order that you would want to see on the left side of the screen. Under #2's example above:

2.a. The first option gives you a title of the sports based on the sport selected from a list. (like it is now) BUT.

2.b. A second option in the horizontal scroll menu not yet available, would list games or teams. Selecting that, brings up the chronological list of games or teams showing within the half hour to the next several days for that sport on the left that you want to watch.

Jack

That seems too complex and sports-only oriented, unlikely to ever get implemented. It would be more than enough to just do what most other DVRs do - allow search through descriptions, so you can just type part of your team's name and see all the games. Of course, a real nice search like Tivo would be great ;)

One more reason for holding on to 8300HD running MDN:

Any month now, TWC will release their new and deproved IPG for ODN boxes,
with Multi-Room, IPTV?, super-duper hi-rez graphics, lots of different ways to display
the channel grid, search not only programs but also PPV & OnDemand....incl by keyword....

Stand by for EVEN MORE BUGGY Navigator-II Software!!!!

One more reason for holding on to 8300HD running MDN:

Any month now, TWC will release their new and deproved IPG for ODN boxes,
with Multi-Room, IPTV?, super-duper hi-rez graphics, lots of different ways to display
the channel grid, search not only programs but also PPV & OnDemand....incl by keyword....

Stand by for EVEN MORE BUGGY Navigator-II Software!!!!

Yea,

I have this image of TWC throwing everything to the wall with Navigator 3 for ODN and see what sticks and falls apart saying, "Oh well, we'll work out the bugs later. Customers wanted a new guide so here it is." TWC I could see them thinking, "Maybe they'll shut up now about new features."

However, if they only do it a feature at a time in small doses, doing the ODN first, than checking if it's good enough to add to MDN, I think that will be a better approach.

What customers DON'T want is, "Too much too soon, untested." I mean do we know that everything is going to be released for a new ODN Navigator at once?

Jack

Article on what's in the works for Navigator:

http://www2.journalnow.com/content/2010/mar/19/tv-frontier-time-warner-cable-lab-makes-set-top-bo/entertainment/

Jack

Question,

Do the SA/Cisco ODN 8240-HDC and the SA/Cisco MDN 8300 have the same amount of RAM?

Jack

Article on what's in the works for Navigator:

http://www2.journalnow.com/content/2010/mar/19/tv-frontier-time-warner-cable-lab-makes-set-top-bo/entertainment/

Jack

Thanks Jack. That was a good read.

Now I have to find what part of the city that room is in. :D

I still don't know how TWC is going to roll out a multi-room DVR if the Cisco 8640 doesn't have MoCA. Maybe it will be accompanied by a different box?

Thanks Jack. That was a good read.

Now I have to find what part of the city that room is in. :D

I still don't know how TWC is going to roll out a multi-room DVR if the Cisco 8640 doesn't have MoCA. Maybe it will be accompanied by a different box?

Based on what I have heard through the grapevine, an 8500 or higher SA/Cisco or Samsung box will be required:

1.) For multi-room DVR capability.

2.) For the expanded storage (up to 40 hrs of HD)

The other features are planned for both ODN/MDN with ODN getting them first:

1.) Expanded Search and Guide Listings.

2.) Guide Filtering.

3.) Copy to DVD/VCR.

4.) Nearest Tune added to MDN boxes.

5.) Remote DVR Management.

6.) Possible Manual Recording.

Jack

OK, here's an interesting mind experiment: pick your top 3 from the above list. For me, it's

1. Expanded Storage
2. Multi-Room
3. Remote DVR management

It's easy for me because those three are quite important to me. The other ones would be nice, but they are not in the same class, for me.

Strangely enough, if I had to pick a fourth favorite, it would be Manual Recording. I've had a TWCNY box since the 8000SD, and I've made one, maybe two, manual recordings. Nonetheless, I like the security blanket of having that function available.

-barry

here's an interesting mind experiment: pick your top 3 from the above list

As it relates to the features list, for me, it would be:

1. Copy to DVD/VCR.
2. Manual Recording.
3. Remote DVR Management.

with #2 being distant to #1, and #3 being even further distant. I'm assuming that these choices would mean keeping my box as is, with just software updates. I pretty much have zero interest in the other 3 features. (If I had a chance to suggest features, a close #2 for me would be SARA's 'skip to end' option during playback.)

If TWC told me tomorrow that a new box would allow those software features as well as additional storage and multi-room viewing, first, I wouldn't believe it, but secondly, I'd probably stop thinking about ditching cable and go directly to a local office and pick up a box with the new options. Heck, I might even do the same if they'd just offer the return of SARA's 'copy to VCR' function.

For me:

1) Multi Room Viewing

2) Remote DVR Management (IE: Ineternet & iPhone app)

3)Guide Filtering

Third choice was tough because I want a good search option, but in the end I would prefer guide filtering because the majority of the time that is what I'm using anyway.

The first two are no brainers and the others really are nil and would come in time. The added onboard storage is moot when you have eSATA and the extra 20 hours is nice, but still not enough.

I'll be very interested to see what TWC gives us here in CNY. On a side note: I really wish they'd publish a detailed manual of all the features and functions of Navigator as well as version tracking. That should be mandatory! I mean, even my iPhone apps have revision lists when an update is available. We should know what every version is changing or adding as they are deployed.

Article on what's in the works for Navigator:

http://www2.journalnow.com/content/2010/mar/19/tv-frontier-time-warner-cable-lab-makes-set-top-bo/entertainment/

Jack

Hmmm, it sounds like it came right from the TWC PR department. I mean "looking for ways to increase the storage capacity" is a great stumbling block? Something that have to "THINK" about?

I'd bet you the 160s they still put in are special runs... I don't think there's ANY devices today that use such small 3 1/2 inch drives.

Yes, we are seeing dribs and drabs of 320G machines... but 320? I just paid 75 bucks for a 500G 2 1/2 drive in a case with a USB interface. I dare say 500G 3 1/2 drives can be bought dirt cheap... maybe even identical (or a few bucks differential) to 320s.

OK, here's an interesting mind experiment: pick your top 3 from the above list. For me, it's

1. Expanded Storage
2. Multi-Room
3. Remote DVR management

For me, it's very much:

1. more storage AND additioal expansion capability
2. FAR better guide data
3. a real functional search

Non of those pose any real technical challenge, the really difficult stuff already works pretty well (the whole record and watch, record 2 streams and watch another spun from the drive... this is actually not even vaguely easy to accomplish).

Unfortunately, we are seeing a lot of ad dollars being spent touting remote management & multi-room, 2 functions that are totally worthless to me. So I suspect extra buggy versions that that stuff will come first... after 2-3 years for them to work out the issues, maybe they'll address the easy ones!

Don't get me wrong, while it sucks to be me, I know there are a number of folks who value what I do not as a first priority... so I applaud you guys getting something you may want/need.

Question,

Do the SA/Cisco ODN 8240-HDC and the SA/Cisco MDN 8300 have the same amount of RAM?

Jack
Cisco Spec Sheets:
8300HD (MDN): http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps8612/ps8613/product_data_sheet0900aecd806c6913.pdf
8300HDC (ODN): http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps8612/ps8613/product_data_sheet0900aecd806c6920.pdf
8240HDC (ODN): http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps8612/ps8613/product_data_sheet0900aecd806c692c.pdf

Next Gen 8640HDC: http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps8612/ps8613/7015626A.pdf
8642HDC Adds MultiRoom/MoCA: http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps8612/ps8613/7015625A.pdf
Next Gen 8650HDC: http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps8612/ps8613/7015624A.pdf
8652HDC Adds MultiRoom/MoCA: http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps8612/ps8613/7014687A.pdf

Note: xx40 series are ALL DIGITAL, can not tune Analog channels, saving the cost of two A/D Converters.

Cisco Spec Sheets:
8300HD (MDN): http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps8612/ps8613/product_data_sheet0900aecd806c6913.pdf
8300HDC (ODN): http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps8612/ps8613/product_data_sheet0900aecd806c6920.pdf
8240HDC (ODN): http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps8612/ps8613/product_data_sheet0900aecd806c692c.pdf

Next Gen 8640HDC: http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps8612/ps8613/7015626A.pdf
8642HDC Adds MultiRoom/MoCA: http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps8612/ps8613/7015625A.pdf
Next Gen 8650HDC: http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps8612/ps8613/7015624A.pdf
8652HDC Adds MultiRoom/MoCA: http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps8612/ps8613/7014687A.pdf

Note: xx40 series are ALL DIGITAL, can not tune Analog channels, saving the cost of two A/D Converters.

Thank you!

This is a good comparison/contrast of the SA/Cisco DVR converters.

Jack

OK, here's an interesting mind experiment: pick your top 3 from the above list. For me, it's

1. Expanded Storage
2. Multi-Room
3. Remote DVR management

It's easy for me because those three are quite important to me. The other ones would be nice, but they are not in the same class, for me.

Strangely enough, if I had to pick a fourth favorite, it would be Manual Recording. I've had a TWCNY box since the 8000SD, and I've made one, maybe two, manual recordings. Nonetheless, I like the security blanket of having that function available.

-barry

For me, it would be
1. Expanded storage - but more than 40 hours, just re-enable eSATA
2. Guide filtering - but if it really allows you to remove channels from searches, not just from EPG
3. Better search

The others I don't care about. I'd love to see 30 second skip more than anything else, except more storage.

I was happy with Sort by Favs, but with that now gone:
1. Guide Filtering / Customiziable Listings
After that, I don't have a burning need for any of them, but if I had to choose...
2. Multi-room DVR capability.
3. Manual Recording
If I was stuck with 160GB of storage, that would be #1 by a large margin, but the 320GB in the Sammy has been sufficient.

Time Warner Officially announced Navigator's launch via the website for Central New York starting in May (http://www.timewarnercable.com/northeast/learn/cable/navigator/).

They also added a feedback option for NY subscribers HERE (http://www.timewarnercable.com/northeast/learn/cable/navigator/feedback.html). If you are in Albany,Rochester, Syracuse or Utica markets - you can use that form to submit comments and feedback directly to Time Warner about Navigator.

Yep ben i seen that ...i had posted this over in the other forum in the syracuse -utica hdtv section ...awesome news huh Ben !!!! I have my navigator gear all prepped and ready ......LOL!

Yep ben i seen that ...i had posted this over in the other forum in the syracuse -utica hdtv section ...awesome news huh Ben !!!! I have my navigator gear all prepped and ready ......LOL!

LOL!!!! That's cool Abyss!

I have this image of you going to your TWC office to get all kinds of posters and fliers about Navigator coming and putting them up all over your house, in your yard. I nominate Abyss as the official Navigator PR man for New York!!!

Abyss will be picking out special clothing to wear and have a big party at his house to celebrate the big launch date!!!

Abyss thinking:

"Damn, why can't we just skip April and go right from March to May!!!" LOL!

Jack

Thank god april has only 30 days !!!

... AND additioal expansion capability ...


Good point Riverside_Guy (and BenJF3 and jcalabria). If TWC would formally support external drives, then the issue of disk size would go away. I'm quite happy with my 8300HD and external drive, but I just hate living in an environment where I worry that every upgrade will take my external drive away.

-barry

Good point Riverside_Guy (and BenJF3 and jcalabria). If TWC would formally support external drives, then the issue of disk size would go away. I'm quite happy with my 8300HD and external drive, but I just hate living in an environment where I worry that every upgrade will take my external drive away.

-barry

Agreed - plus I want the speed and processor upgrade that comes with the newer hardware. My 8300HD will never be able to display a 16:9 guide while the 8650 could. The 8640 should be able to run smoother as well and has MoCa compatibility which is likely to prove useful.

Now, the storage issue isn't a big deal for me. Being a tech, I have no issue transplanting the small factory drive with a massive drive I buy. However, the average person is likely to find that an intimidating and/or daunting task.

eSata should be fully supported within reason. Here is my compromise: TW should enable it, but only officially support WD DVR Expander drives to keep things simple. They are readily available in 500GB & 1TB sizes. Sure, others may work, but they can't possibly offer support for every type of eSata setup out there. Now, not to give them any ideas - but I think the average person would even be willing to pay a small one time fee for eSata support, similar to what Dish Network does. If TWC sees this as a revenue stream, it is more apt to be supported. Maybe something like selling the drives directly or with an "activation fee". I wouldn't support a monthly fee however. Bottom line is, eSata support is a must with 100's of HD channels and options must be weighed.

I could live with another compromise for the external drive: go back to the way it used to be. Fix the software, then disavow any knowledge of it.

I've never seen this discussed, but it's happened to me from time to time.

Sunday night was busy for us TV-wise, so I was recording a number of different shows with Crapigator while watching others "off-box". Anyway, here in EDT, CBS was running about 50 minutes late due to the length of March Madness coverage. I kept my "Amazing Race" settings as-is, but added an hour to the end of "Undercover Boss". We subsequently started watching "Race". Because I can never leave well enough alone, I popped over to CBS during a commercial when I expected "Boss" to be over. It was, so I canceled & saved the recording.

Big mistake! "Crappy" had been scheduled to record the season premiere of "Breaking Bad" and Discovery's "Life" documentary series later Sunday/early Monday. It wasn't until much later I noticed the lack of the Record light on the STB. Crappy had recorded both Breaking Bad and the 1st episode of Life from around 10:50 PM until their ends around 11 PM. And then, on its own, Crappy had canceled the later scheduled recordings of those episodes, as it believed it had already recorded them!!

Crappy's behavior is just SO mind-bogglingly stupid, that I often forget and make this same mistake. I could possibly understand if the intent was for it to record at least the last few minutes of a program airing only once, but in this scenario? Jeez! I was an analyst and programmer for years, and I never would have made so many idiotic design decisions. Is it the programming staff, the analysts/managers who give them the specs, or does TWC let their Customer "Service" Reps design the software? It sure seems that way.

-- A disgruntled victim of:
MDN 2.4.6-19

Agreed - plus I want the speed and processor upgrade that comes with the newer hardware. My 8300HD will never be able to display a 16:9 guide while the 8650 could. The 8640 should be able to run smoother as well and has MoCa compatibility which is likely to prove useful.

Now, the storage issue isn't a big deal for me. Being a tech, I have no issue transplanting the small factory drive with a massive drive I buy. However, the average person is likely to find that an intimidating and/or daunting task.

Me neither, I've been building RAID arrays since before anyone knew what that meant! I would be VERY happy to do such, however, I think the cable guys in the US do things to tie the original HDD to the machine. The ONLY credible evidence I've seen is that one CAN sub a 320G Pipeline drive for the same but 160 in a Samsung 3090. Yes I've seen the odd post claiming someone did it in another box, but those lack any credibility because if it DID work, we'd be getting more reports of success.

The drive swap success in the 3090 originally came from long time, very credible AVSers AND is repeated numerous times in different markets.

but they can't possibly offer support for every type of eSata setup

Sure they can, its a standard. But a better option is what they do now (non-Navigator) don't support it but enable the port. If it works it works, if not then the customer is on their own to find a drive that does work. If/when they upgrade me in Austin and all of a sudden my external drive doesn't work I'll be walking the equipment down to them and canceling. No reason for them to upgrade all its customers to a product with less functionality, well except for laziness.

First, eSATA and SATA are actually the same thing... the "e" ONLY means a different style of connector is used (one designed for plugging and unplugging), electrically it's the same. Mike is right, there really no such thing as "different types of SATA" set-ups. SATA is simply a bunch of wires that go directly to the drive. On the host side, you DO need a controller, that essentially translates the "raw" signals into a for the computer can better understand. If the drive works as designed and the controller does the same, it's 100% the software on the host.

Sure they can, its a standard. But a better option is what they do now (non-Navigator) don't support it but enable the port.It's more accurate to say fix the software. The esata port is actually enabled and sometimes actually works. In fact it worked quite well on previous releases. They've managed to fix it and break it twice. The problem is that it's currently not consistent or reliable (at best) and often causes programs recorded on the internal drive to be eliminated.

Seems to me that you are saying that:

A. You are extremely competent with the technical skills to replace a drive.

but,

B. You are not doing it because you are waiting for a reasonable number of more competent people to do it first.

My own opinion is that most of us (I too have the skills and experience to swap a drive) are just reluctant to screw around (no pun intended) with somebody else's box without detailed knowledge of how the hardware, software, and firmware interact. I, for one, would far rather slap on an external drive, even though it is less reliable, needs its own power source, and is dependent on easily disconnected cables.

Yes, an external drive looks (and even 'feels') a bit kludgy, but if it works, to me it's a better choice.

-barry

Me neither, I've been building RAID arrays since before anyone knew what that meant! I would be VERY happy to do such, however, I think the cable guys in the US do things to tie the original HDD to the machine. The ONLY credible evidence I've seen is that one CAN sub a 320G Pipeline drive for the same but 160 in a Samsung 3090. Yes I've seen the odd post claiming someone did it in another box, but those lack any credibility because if it DID work, we'd be getting more reports of success.

The drive swap success in the 3090 originally came from long time, very credible AVSers AND is repeated numerous times in different markets.

Sure they can, its a standard. But a better option is what they do now (non-Navigator) don't support it but enable the port. If it works it works, if not then the customer is on their own to find a drive that does work. If/when they upgrade me in Austin and all of a sudden my external drive doesn't work I'll be walking the equipment down to them and canceling. No reason for them to upgrade all its customers to a product with less functionality, well except for laziness.

Perhaps they could even do both! TWC could sell (or rent) a TWC branded external drive. This could be the only drive that they officially support. Those of us who are willing to take the risk and complexity of using our own drives would benefit from the fact that the hardware/software properly supports eSata drives. And, TWC could make a bit of money to offset the cost of supporting this useful feature.

-barry

Good feedback on the eSata options guys. It proves my point that we all want external storage or increased capacity somehow.

I don't see how they can tie a drive to the unit unless the use some special lockout. If you clone the drive to another it should mirror and work.

MikeAlletto - it may be a standard for PC applications, but it's proven not so much for the DVR market. Just take a look at xappo's eSata database and you'll see that many setups don't work. Supporting only one type would make it easier for TWC to manage. That said, I'm fine with them enabling the port and not acknowledging it thereby leaving us to figure out what works which is basically how it is now depending on what set top and what software you currently have.

As far as implying I'm waiting for someone else to do it first. Not so, I just don't have a need to do it right now as my eSata setup works.

The thing I'd hate to see is TWC make this a straight revenue stream where the charge an activation and then charge and additional monthly fee for a drive you have to rent from them.

I don't see how they can tie a drive to the unit unless the use some special lockout. If you clone the drive to another it should mirror and work.Yeah but you can't take your drive and try to play it on another DVR (including a replacement for your own).

Yeah but you can't take your drive and try to play it on another DVR (including a replacement for your own).

Yes, but that's not what we are talking about. I am talking about just replacing a drive with a larger drive within the same set top.

IE: If I take the 160GB out of my 8300HD and clone it to a 1TB and put the 1TB back in, the set top should work the same with the larger drive.

They can't "lock out" drives unless they used some sort of proprietary drive within the set top.

Yes, but that's not what we are talking about. I am talking about just replacing a drive with a larger drive within the same set top.

IE: If I take the 160GB out of my 8300HD and clone it to a 1TB and put the 1TB back in, the set top should work the same with the larger drive.

They can't "lock out" drives unless they used some sort of proprietary drive within the set top.

Though it is not as simple as that really. There's many other factors as well other than just 'slapping it in'. There's the software that interacts with the IDE interface in the box (Will it even handle a drive larger than a certain size?), the proprietary filesystem (just a simple clone trick will keep the DVR storage partition of the drive the same size as it is now. The cloning software will not know how to resize it since it doesn't know the filesystem. You'd probably be better off throwing a blank drive in and crossing your fingers that Navigator knows how to reformat a clean drive.). And most importantly does Navigator even know what to do with drives larger than XXXgb?

LOL!!!! That's cool Abyss!

I have this image of you going to your TWC office to get all kinds of posters and fliers about Navigator coming and putting them up all over your house, in your yard. I nominate Abyss as the official Navigator PR man for New York!!!

Abyss will be picking out special clothing to wear and have a big party at his house to celebrate the big launch date!!!

Abyss thinking:

"Damn, why can't we just skip April and go right from March to May!!!" LOL!

Jack

Drove by our local office yesterday and saw a guy camped out with a tent, must have been abyss!

Anyway, for those interested TWC has begun to offer tech support via Twitter:

http://twitter.com/TWCableHelp

I don't know how good these "techs" are, but after skimming through quickly and seeing a lot of "Reboot Your Box" and "Unplug your set top from the wall, wait 30 secs and plug it back in", I'm guessing it's the standard phone support variety via Twitter.

I don't know how good these "techs" are, but after skimming through quickly and seeing a lot of "Reboot Your Box" and "Unplug your set top from the wall, wait 30 secs and plug it back in", I'm guessing it's the standard phone support variety via Twitter.

Probably less so. I imagine it's the same team who operate the Web site live chat help, which is completely useless for anything other than operating instructions. For anything vaguely connected to your account you have to phone in.

Probably less so. I imagine it's the same team who operate the Web site live chat help, which is completely useless for anything other than operating instructions. For anything vaguely connected to your account you have to phone in.

I was able to get them to re-authorize my SDV Tuning Adapter. Of course, the clown first sent a reboot to my "cable box" even after stating it's an f'ng Tivo with a tuning adapter.

Seems to me that you are saying that:

A. You are extremely competent with the technical skills to replace a drive.

but,

B. You are not doing it because you are waiting for a reasonable number of more competent people to do it first.

The basic issue of swapping an internal drive in a DVR is "where does the OS come from?" IF we do NOT have any evidence it CAN come automatically post swap, then the chances for success are nil.

I have an 8300HD and I'd swap the drive in a flash IF someone whom I trust in my home market did it successfully. Sure I could buy a drive and try it myself, but at this point that would entail about a 100% chance of it not working.

OTOH, we have multiple reports from credible sources that a drive swap CAN be accomplished on a 3090. BUT that one is EXTREMELY limited as there is only one very specific drive that seemed to work (a Pipeline 320G drive... one that comes in the 320G equipped 3090s that seem to be "dribbling out").

FWIW, I am not in a financial position to buy different drives and test them, so I have to resort to my own investigations to insure the investment really pays off. Note that in the case of the 3090, trying a Pipeline 320G was what someone tried and it worked. Pipeline makes a 500G drive but NOBODY has tried to stick one in a 3090. So the best I can do is try and goad someone else into trying that move... trust me, I'm not overjoyed at being in that position, but there it is and I have to live with it.

Good feedback on the eSata options guys. It proves my point that we all want external storage or increased capacity somehow.

I don't see how they can tie a drive to the unit unless the use some special lockout. If you clone the drive to another it should mirror and work.

MikeAlletto - it may be a standard for PC applications, but it's proven not so much for the DVR market. Just take a look at xappo's eSata database and you'll see that many setups don't work. Supporting only one type would make it easier for TWC to manage. That said, I'm fine with them enabling the port and not acknowledging it thereby leaving us to figure out what works which is basically how it is now depending on what set top and what software you currently have.

As far as implying I'm waiting for someone else to do it first. Not so, I just don't have a need to do it right now as my eSata setup works.

The thing I'd hate to see is TWC make this a straight revenue stream where the charge an activation and then charge and additional monthly fee for a drive you have to rent from them.

It's not all that hard to tie a drive to a unit... Compaq did that 20 years ago... if you wanted a larger drive, you HAD to have it come from Compaq... no others would work. BUT I don't think that is an issue at play here... it's the OS/IPG stuff!

Cloning is an interesting subject... it's not exactly a clone when you go from one size of drive to a much larger one. Not to mention that term got used a LOT in the early TiVO days. Same issue I mentioned above, one had to copy the OS/IPG stuff... and that is what end users did with a TiVO, figured out a way to copy the OS/IPG and put it on a larger dive. Everyone called that cloning, so it kinda stuck.

Not sure I get why TWC doesn't offer a larger drive DVR either for a one time fee, or an additional charge on the "DVR fee" we all have to pay. Oh wait, give the customers what they want AND make extra money doing it... not in TWC business plan I guess.

Though it is not as simple as that really. There's many other factors as well other than just 'slapping it in'. There's the software that interacts with the IDE interface in the box (Will it even handle a drive larger than a certain size?), the proprietary filesystem (just a simple clone trick will keep the DVR storage partition of the drive the same size as it is now. The cloning software will not know how to resize it since it doesn't know the filesystem. You'd probably be better off throwing a blank drive in and crossing your fingers that Navigator knows how to reformat a clean drive.). And most importantly does Navigator even know what to do with drives larger than XXXgb?

Indeed. Most cloning software I have used does a low level bit copy... and tends to balk if the 2 drives have different sizes.

We DO know that ODN/MDN can handle larger storage space, 3090s can have 320s swapped for their 160s, some 3090 units and all 3270s come at 320. I hear the 86xx series from Cisco come with 320s.

If i thought i could get get you eSATA support and get us navigator in a 24 hour period i would camp out ben... HAHA ! I can see it now " I'm not leaving till i get a couple cisco boxes one for me and my bud in central ny "

Well, I was at the Rome office a few days ago and the woman behind the counter didn't seem to know anything about Navigator. I asked if they had any new boxes in yet and she said no. Chances are, this will be typical Time Warner - by that I mean, the CSR's will be the last to know.

The Desert cities subdivision of TWC San Diego will start beta testing the Cisco DVR's in a few weeks.

My Samsung boxes now have SW v4.3.5.3.

Is it looking like Desert Cities and San Diego are giving up on the Samsung 3270 units and going back to Cisco boxes?

San Diego just loaded SW v4.3.5.3 and they have plenty of 3270's in stock.

Has anyone deciphered what exactly has changed within Navigator from version to version? Why doesn't TW issue release notes with each "update". I know reports come in with lost or added things discovered by end users, but there should be a revision list issued by TW with each change. Hell, even my iPhone apps have this?!?!?

Has anyone deciphered what exactly has changed within Navigator from version to version? Why doesn't TW issue release notes with each "update". I know reports come in with lost or added things discovered by end users, but there should be a revision list issued by TW with each change. Hell, even my iPhone apps have this?!?!?

I've been posting info on ODN updates as I have received them... I can take a look this evening and compile them, but that won't help any for your MDN box.

The other issue is that the same versions do not necessarily behave the same in all systems... for instance, some systems with the same versions we have had here have not had the expanded guide listings that we have had here for several versions. There is also evidence of patches being issued that can effect behavior but do not end up changing version numbers.

I've been posting info on ODN updates as I have received them... I can take a look this evening and compile them, but that won't help any for your MDN box.

The other issue is that the same versions do not necessarily behave the same in all systems... for instance, some systems with the same versions we have had here have not had the expanded guide listings that we have had here for several versions. There is also evidence of patches being issued that can effect behavior but do not end up changing version numbers.

Right, but I also plan on picking up an 8640HDC as soon as they are available which would have ODN. That's a good idea about compiling the various versions. However, we would need a thread started just for that so post 1 could be updated as needed. Sifting through hundreds of pages would be a nightmare.

I still stand by my position that this is something Time Warner should be doing on THEIR website!

Not necessarily--you could always ask a mod (or Jacksonian, who is still around) to edit the top post to place a pointer to a release notes post in it.
[quote]I still stand by my position that this is something Time Warner should be doing on THEIR website!That'd be nice, but don't hold your breath. I've never seen that done in the past. I think that very few subs would use or appreciate it.

I know that, but it would be nice to know what is added or taken away. They could at least put a detailed manual up instead of quick reference guides.

What was that corporate address for TWC? Someone put it up a while back. There is safety in numbers and we should start a campaign to corporate to please publish TWC-Navigator update release notes or tentative schedules of new features. The goal in my view is not to do this to "bother them", but as an idea that they could better serve their customers.

Jack

Sometimes I get release notes from my engineering contact but he doesn't make them as a document.

ODN v3.2.0_15 adds a new CableCard, Middleware, RTOS update, some features were taken away, RemoteDVR is added and other misc stuff.

ODN v3.1.3_3 updates the HDC boxes middleware so that it doesn't randomly steal the buffer when it's trying to do a network check. It also reduces the instances of Please wait for non DVR boxes.

Samsung v4.3.5.3 does fix a few intermittent bugs but it also refines the 3270's REW and FF algorithm.

...they could better serve their customers.

Jack

ROTFL... no immediate profit in that, so no go.

I've been posting info on ODN updates as I have received them... I can take a look this evening and compile them, but that won't help any for your MDN box.

The other issue is that the same versions do not necessarily behave the same in all systems... for instance, some systems with the same versions we have had here have not had the expanded guide listings that we have had here for several versions. There is also evidence of patches being issued that can effect behavior but do not end up changing version numbers.

Not to mention I seem to have a version (MDN) that NOBODY else has, except for my immediate neighbors... and a slip stream update (no version change) fixed one big bug but it seems my -21 operates pretty much like all -19 versions do.

AND I can clearly recall that even with our old Passport software, there were things I could NOT do that some others COULD do even though everyone had the same software version.

Not to mention I seem to have a version (MDN) that NOBODY else has, except for my immediate neighbors...
AND I can clearly recall that even with our old Passport software, there were things I could NOT do that some others COULD do even though everyone had the same software version.

It's plot (X-Files redux) ;)

I got rid of my 8300HDC for another SMT-H3270. I didn't get a manual or a bunch of cables but it's a nice DVR. This 3270 has a sticker on top of it mentions that you press A for VOD. All I got was a paper that tells you how to activate it, a power cord, and a plastic bag. The front of the box did contain a clear plastic cover which I removed.

It came with SW v4.3.5 and ODN v3.2.0_15. In a short amount of time it rebooted and downloaded SW v4.3.5.3.

Now I only use Samsung boxes. 2 3260's and 2 3270's and it's nice to have the 320 GB HDD.

Hey All,

In divisions giving out the Samsungs, do yours have four feet on the bottom? There was an influx of many early Samsung boxes that had only one or two feet on them and the rest were broken off.

What were some of the other bugs with the Samsungs? Our division had them in Milwaukee about six months ago, but I think they may be going with the newer SA/Cisco's. It will be interesting to do performance test evaluations between the Samsungs and the new Cisco's. But again, that varies from division to division. I think right now, they are only doing SA/Cisco 8300-HDC's

I still heed the advice of a TWC tech who we had that was decent years ago. "If your box is working at an above average or better capacity in terms of speed and functionality, keep it, because all units are rented as is. You don't know where the previous box came from, how well it was maintained."

He told us, don't fix what isn't broken.

Jack

One of my 3260's might be missing some feet but I don't seem to care about it. All my other boxes have all 4 feet.

Hey All, ...
I still heed the advice of a TWC tech who we had that was decent years ago. "If your box is working at an above average or better capacity in terms of speed and functionality, keep it, because all units are rented as is. You don't know where the previous box came from, how well it was maintained."

He told us, don't fix what isn't broken.

Jack

I am still hanging on to an 8300HD box based on the same advice I received a few years ago from a TW tech.

Hey All,

In divisions giving out the Samsungs, do yours have four feet on the bottom? There was an influx of many early Samsung boxes that had only one or two feet on them and the rest were broken off.

What were some of the other bugs with the Samsungs? Our division had them in Milwaukee about six months ago, but I think they may be going with the newer SA/Cisco's. It will be interesting to do performance test evaluations between the Samsungs and the new Cisco's. But again, that varies from division to division. I think right now, they are only doing SA/Cisco 8300-HDC's

I still heed the advice of a TWC tech who we had that was decent years ago. "If your box is working at an above average or better capacity in terms of speed and functionality, keep it, because all units are rented as is. You don't know where the previous box came from, how well it was maintained."

He told us, don't fix what isn't broken.

Jack

While true, the 8640's that should be deployed here would be brand new. They still don't have any at the local office yet, so any they get shouldn't be prior rentals. I want to compare the two, but as I stated before - I am keeping my 8300HD since it's working perfectly until such a time I see the 8640 offering something the 8300HD doesn't.

Hey All,

In divisions giving out the Samsungs, do yours have four feet on the bottom? There was an influx of many early Samsung boxes that had only one or two feet on them and the rest were broken off.

What were some of the other bugs with the Samsungs? Our division had them in Milwaukee about six months ago, but I think they may be going with the newer SA/Cisco's. It will be interesting to do performance test evaluations between the Samsungs and the new Cisco's. But again, that varies from division to division. I think right now, they are only doing SA/Cisco 8300-HDC's

I still heed the advice of a TWC tech who we had that was decent years ago. "If your box is working at an above average or better capacity in terms of speed and functionality, keep it, because all units are rented as is. You don't know where the previous box came from, how well it was maintained."

He told us, don't fix what isn't broken.

Jack

Both of my 3090s were brand new and had all feet when I picked them up.

The 3090s have certainly had their quirks, but all of the serious ones had at least a workaround available. I would say that with the current versions of software on mine (ODN 3.2.0_15 + Samsung 4.3.5.3), that virtually all of them have been finally fixed, and the 3090 has been quite stable and reliable for a while now, and 320GB is awfully nice without any eSATA hassles.

The only remaining issue, that's really not a big deal, is that it still refuses to properly boot ODN when the HDMI is connected to my Onkyo 876 AVR (when on only, turning the AVR off allows the box to boot Navigator correctly). Before 4.3.5.x, it refused to boot Navigator at all with the AVR on, ending up in the Samsung native GUI after a couple of minutes of trying to load ODN. Since 4.3.5.x, it will boot into Navigator, but there will be no guide listings at all, but all is fine with the AVR off during boot-up. I say it's not a big deal because, if there are unattended reboots, the AVR is off anyway, and if I do it manually (something I no longer have to do on a regular basis to keep the FOX/CBS recordings working) I can turn off the AVR.

The 3090s have certainly had their quirks, but all of the serious ones had at least a workaround available. I would say that with the current versions of software on mine (ODN 3.2.0_15 + Samsung 4.3.5.3), that virtually all of them have been finally fixed, and the 3090 has been quite stable and reliable for a while now, and 320GB is awfully nice without any eSATA hassles.

I really wish TWCNYC would get around to pushing your versions of software here. Since they dumped 2.4.9.4 on me a few weeks ago, I've had to hard reboot a frozen 3090 about once/day. Prior to that the box worked fairly well. I'm ready to throw this thing out the window and pick up one of the new Tivos.

While true, the 8640's that should be deployed here would be brand new. They still don't have any at the local office yet, so any they get shouldn't be prior rentals. I want to compare the two, but as I stated before - I am keeping my 8300HD since it's working perfectly until such a time I see the 8640 offering something the 8300HD doesn't.

Same here... I was all sorts of anxious about getting a 3090, mostly for the ability to install a larger HDD. BUT I managed to create a "habit" of dealing with disk space (record 'em, WATCH 'em) that seems to be working well, AND my seriously ancient HD holding up amazingly well. Not to mention the "glitching" issues I was plagued with sure seem to be exactly what I have always thought (issues from the head end, NOT one's box or external drive) because I seem to (so far) be glitch free for 3-4 weeks (well, 1-2 per 5 hours of viewing is perfect to me from when it was half a dozen per hour).

I really wish TWCNYC would get around to pushing your versions of software here. Since they dumped 2.4.9.4 on me a few weeks ago, I've had to hard reboot a frozen 3090 about once/day. Prior to that the box worked fairly well. I'm ready to throw this thing out the window and pick up one of the new Tivos.

Pretty much why I kinda stick with my HD (not to mention achieving some level of peace with the tiny HDD)! From what I read, it sure looks like that TiVO won't be up to it's capabilities for a while. it seems they have good hardware but are barely post alpha in software. If you can afford third party, might want to take a serious look at Moxi...

Pretty much why I kinda stick with my HD (not to mention achieving some level of peace with the tiny HDD)! From what I read, it sure looks like that TiVO won't be up to it's capabilities for a while. it seems they have good hardware but are barely post alpha in software. If you can afford third party, might want to take a serious look at Moxi...

Yeah, I've given both the Moxi and Tivo a good look. The Moxi/Moximate combo looks as if it could work out well for me. I just don't want to lay out the cash. :p Hopefully, there's a 3090 software update just around the corner.

From what I read, it sure looks like that TiVO won't be up to it's capabilities for a while.What capabilities would those be? (Or are you trying to say "TiVo Premiere won't acheive its full capabilities for a while"? That might be true, in that they're slowly converting the UI to HD and introduced the unit with only the "heavy traffic" menus converted. It is, however, already many times faster than the S3 and HD at doing stuff that no other DVR on the market can do, like moving recording to and from computers on your LAN and downloading VOD from Amazon, Blockbuster, etc. They're planning an update in April).

I just exchanged my Scientific Atlanta 8300 HDC with a 8300HD.

Although I can mention that 8300HD, fonts are darker, when you click a button to display a menu it has this nice "fade in, fade out" thing that 8300HDC didn't have.

Also, there is some info in the settings location that 8300HDC doesn't have.

Brighthouse didn't have the new Samsung HD DVR that I think has more space to record programs.

I want to know what's the difference? which one is newer?

I just exchanged my Scientific Atlanta 8300 HDC with a 8300HD.

Although I can mention that 8300HD, fonts are darker, when you click a button to display a menu it has this nice "fade in, fade out" thing that 8300HDC didn't have.

Also, there is some info in the settings location that 8300HDC doesn't have.

Brighthouse didn't have the new Samsung HD DVR that I think has more space to record programs.

I want to know what's the difference? which one is newer?

8300HD is the older one, also runs the MDN software/middleware/whatever (not ODN). I have a vintage 2003 unit.

8300HD is the older one, also runs the MDN software/middleware/whatever (not ODN). I have a vintage 2003 unit.

It's amazing, I like the 8300HD better than the 8300HDC

I can change channels faster (and I personally need that), has the nice "fade in, fade out" feature when you click for the menu.

The only thing missing from 8300HDC is that when you change a channel manually that is not available in the menu, it doesn't take you to the nearest tune.

That's not a killler thing for me, I can live without that with no issues whatsoever.

I just exchanged my Scientific Atlanta 8300 HDC with a 8300HD.

Although I can mention that 8300HD, fonts are darker, when you click a button to display a menu it has this nice "fade in, fade out" thing that 8300HDC didn't have.

Also, there is some info in the settings location that 8300HDC doesn't have.

Brighthouse didn't have the new Samsung HD DVR that I think has more space to record programs.

I want to know what's the difference? which one is newer?

One of my 8240 HDC's bricked last night. I had to return it to my local TWC office today. Instead of a new 8240hdc I got a 8300hd with MDN. It is the first time I have gotton any real play on the MDN version of Navigator and it's really not that bad. I was suprised at the red icon next to shows in my show list showing how long to deletion. ODN does not have those. ODN says until space is needed. I inquired abou new boxes. We are getting the Cisco 8640 boxes here next month. I was able to apply on a list for one. They said as soon as they came in they would reserve one for me and call me. Think when they cll I will turn my 8240hdc in for the 8640HDC and keep the 8300HD until it bricks or if the 8600 proves successful get another of those. Will post my findings as soon as I get the 8600 and play with it. The CSR said they were going with Samsung but TWC abruply had them cancel the Samsung order and replace it wih 8600's due to the many bugs in Samsung. WOODY.

I just saw a fast report on the FOX business channel. It stated wih few details that both DISH Network and Time Warner Cable were both circleing TIVO for a possible purchase of Tivo. This is all I knw just caught this brief newflash from them. WOODY

I just saw a fast report on the FOX business channel. It stated wih few details that both DISH Network and Time Warner Cable were both circleing TIVO for a possible purchase of Tivo. This is all I knw just caught this brief newflash from them. WOODY
I'm not at all surprised after latest court ruling saying TiVo "owns the basic patent"
on being able to "simultaneously" record & watch video programs:
http://www.multichannel.com/article/450013-TiVo_Zaps_Dish_on_Patent.php?rssid=20527
http://www.multichannel.com/article/450755-Dish_Faces_April_30_Deadline_In_TiVo_Case.php

If you can't fight them, consider buying the company as an outright investment opportunity
[gotta find some place to invest those profits anyway......] Big Fish eat small fish...
And then put the squeeze to the remaining competitors....
BTW: DirecTV and Comcast are already paying royalties to TiVo....

http://www.timewarnercable.com/northeast/learn/cable/navigator/nav_release.html

Here is the schedule for Rochester and Buffalo. They aren't doing it on April 5th. It's been scheduled for April 13, 2010. They'll be doing it by box type. The 4240HDC's will get it first. Just type in 14001 in the zip code and it will show it.

Time Warner Cable of Western New York has created a schedule to upgrade your Digital Cable set-top boxes with the new Navigator Guide in your home. You may have one or more and/or a combination of the Digital Cable set-top boxes listed below. Please note that all of the digital set-top boxes for existing customers are scheduled for the Navigator Guide software upgrade starting April 13. Since you may have one or more of the following Explorer set-top box types in your home, some of your set-top boxes may experience the software upgrade prior to others. During the month of April and May, all of your current set-top boxes will be updated with the new Navigator Guide. You'll still use the same remote as before and your settings buttons will work the same too.



Note: Schedule subject to change.



Explorer 4240 / 4250

Software Update Schedule
Explorer 4240HDC (HD) April 13, 2010
Explorer 4250HDC (HD) April 14, 2010



Explorer 8240

Software Update Schedule
Explorer 8240HDC (HD) DVR May 4, 2010


Explorer 8300

Software Update Schedule
Explorer 8300HDC (HD) DVR May 5, 2010
Explorer 8300 (HD) DVR April 27, 2010



Explorer 8000

Software Update Schedule
Explorer 8000 (HD) DVR April 27, 2010
Explorer 8000 (SD) DVR April 27, 2010



Explorer 3100

Software Update Schedule
Explorer 3100 (HD) April 19, 2010
Explorer 3100 (SD) May 12, 2010



Explorer 3250

Software Update Schedule
Explorer 3250 (HD) April 19, 2010
Explorer 3250 (SD) May 12, 2010



Explorer 2200

Software Update Schedule
Explorer 2200 (SD) April 21, 2010



Explorer 2000 / 3000

Software Update Schedule
Explorer 2000 (SD) May 11, 2010



Explorer 2100

Software Update Schedule
Explorer 2100 (SD) May 11, 2010


The full schedule for Rochester and most likely Buffalo.

It's amazing, I like the 8300HD better than the 8300HDC

I can change channels faster (and I personally need that), has the nice "fade in, fade out" feature when you click for the menu.

The only thing missing from 8300HDC is that when you change a channel manually that is not available in the menu, it doesn't take you to the nearest tune.

That's not a killler thing for me, I can live without that with no issues whatsoever.

It's not just you! There are a lot of people who seem to like the MDN boxes better. However, all should remember this depends on your division, age and type of box, quality of wiring and signal strength, your box settings, and sometimes your TV and its settings.

Customers are seeing more and more that you can't take issues with one box or division, and apply them to another box or division.

The HDC/Samsung boxes are the newer versions. They run a version called ODN Navigator. The legacy boxes are the non-C models and NON-Samsungs. They run a version called MDN Navigator. The main difference is that the ODN versions of the boxes were mandated to have integrated cable security cards by July 1, 2007. Early releases of Navigator were HORRIBLE and there were tons of problems with the ODN cable boxes and software. The axiom that "Newer does not mean better," seemed to apply in many cases. There are newer boxes out now that run Navigator very well. Later versions of the MDN boxes are still very good. You should have good wiring and signal strenth for the best Navigator results as well as:

1.) An SA-3000 or above series box for non DVR subs. (SA-4000 recommended if SA-3000 is slow)

2.) An SA-8240 or above, OR a new Samsung box for best Navigator results. HOWEVER

3.) If your older model boxes work fine after the update and you have no intention of going from say a standard digital box to a DVR box, keep what you have! Don't fix what isn't broken.

MDN Navigator was Navigator's original foundation and created for legacy boxes. Differences between MDN and ODN are subtle but there are some small acoustic setting differences between the two versions. I would say that about 90% of the features are the same, so you aren't missing much by not having ODN.

Updates are generally applied to ODN boxes first, BUT WITH THOSE UPDATES COMES BUGS! So keep that in mind. It can take TWC 1-3 YEARS to get bugs out of a system and this is strong evidence to hold onto the legacy MDN boxes if you can. TWC will generally apply new updates to the ODN boxes first because they are newer to select test markets. North Carolina, South Carolina, San Diego California, Hawaii, and sometimes Wisconsin, where I live are examples of test markets for TWC new features. Turn around time can be anywhere from a few months to years for new features.

TWC than applies the test-market results for the new features, working out the bugs. and than applies those features first to the ODN boxes and than to the MDN boxes. They are doing better with getting rid of the bugs and we are seeing faster rollouts of new boxes and new features being discussed. But all you can do is watch your mail and boxes for new updates. Most of TWC New York will be finished with the Navigator conversion by June. North Carolina is testing a big Navigator update with new features with a POSSIBLE late second quarter to third quarter rollout expected. If that is successful it is possible that customers COULD see some new IPG features for Navigator by the third to fourth quarter on a more global scale.

Keyword Search, Guide Filtering, and Remote DVR Management are being tested now for both boxes in the labs. It looks like San Diego and North Carolina will be the first to get the new versions later this summer. We could see new Navigator features on the boxes later this year if all goes well in the test markets. But keep in mind again the issues with bugs and new features and consider all of this information with a grain of salt, because this stuff could change overnight.

Jack

It's not just you! There are a lot of people who seem to like the MDN boxes better. However, all should remember this depends on your division, age and type of box, quality of wiring and signal strength, your box settings, and sometimes your TV and its settings.

You really covered the bases there. :D

Whats strange and I am not sure if this has always been on MDN 8300HD boxes. The 8300HD MDN box I got from my TWC office friday has dual buffers. I can switch back and forth beween two channels and not lose my buffer on either channel. They both stay buffered onless I switch to a different channel and then the new channels buffer is saved. Also red icons appear in the shows recorded list telling you how many hours to deletion. You can still tell Navigator to not delete. The caller ID is different and will let you set your turn off sleep controls that hold and you do not have to reset everyday like in the ODN version. Sort by favories is gone but I still have it in my 3.1.33 ODN. I love the fade feature. Even the series manager as a couple of diffent tweeks. I actually like MDN better. If it had nearest tune it would be great. WOODY

Whats strange and I am not sure if this has always been on MDN 8300HD boxes. The 8300HD MDN box I got from my TWC office friday has dual buffers.

It's always been that way, even going back to Passport Echo. Each tuner retained the buffer which is why having the PiP swap tuner swap was pretty useful for watching two channels in real time.

It's always been that way, even going back to Passport Echo. Each tuner retained the buffer which is why having the PiP swap tuner swap was pretty useful for watching two channels in real time.

Not on ODN. They are just adding that feature in the Charlotte/ San Diego version of ODN.

It's always been that way, even going back to Passport Echo. Each tuner retained the buffer which is why having the PiP swap tuner swap was pretty useful for watching two channels in real time.We discussed that at some point earlier in this thread and I was told that if you change the channel it always changes the channel on the other tuner (the one that's not being displayed) then switches to that. In Passport (and TiVo) when you change the channel it changes it on the currently viewed tuner, which is much more intuitive, IMHO. You could PAUSE, SWAP to the other tuner, channel surf to your heart's content then SWAP back. You could get the same effect in Digital Navigator by flipping tuners before changing channels, every time except the first. (PAUSE, change channel, SWAP, change channel, SWAP, change channel, etc, then one final SWAP to get back to the thing that you PAUSE'd).

In fact, VisionOn, it was you who confirmed that for me in this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16899653#post16899653) post; it little further down danki6x confirms it again.

We discussed that at some point earlier in this thread and I was told that if you change the channel it always changes the channel on the other tuner (the one that's not being displayed) then switches to that.

I can see why TWC changed it since it does make the tuner swapping transparent to the user and at the same time gives them the benefit (in MDN at least) of having two channels buffering simultaneously so you an flip back and forth between them. Since PiP is now gone that's the only way you can "watch" two channels at the same time.

In ODN since the buffer resets with every channel switch you don't get that minor advantage.

I can see why TWC changed it since it does make the tuner swapping transparent to the user and at the same time gives them the benefit (in MDN at least) of having two channels buffering simultaneously so you an flip back and forth between them. Since PiP is now gone that's the only way you can "watch" two channels at the same time.

In ODN since the buffer resets with every channel switch you don't get that minor advantage.

ODN v3.2.0_15 does buffer both tuners. My 3270 used to have 1 90 minute buffer but now with ODN v3.2.0_15 and SW v4.3.5.3, I get 2 60 minute buffers.

Whats strange and I am not sure if this has always been on MDN 8300HD boxes. The 8300HD MDN box I got from my TWC office friday has dual buffers. I can switch back and forth beween two channels and not lose my buffer on either channel. They both stay buffered onless I switch to a different channel and then the new channels buffer is saved. Also red icons appear in the shows recorded list telling you how many hours to deletion. You can still tell Navigator to not delete. The caller ID is different and will let you set your turn off sleep controls that hold and you do not have to reset everyday like in the ODN version. Sort by favories is gone but I still have it in my 3.1.33 ODN. I love the fade feature. Even the series manager as a couple of diffent tweeks. I actually like MDN better. If it had nearest tune it would be great. WOODY

The best way to deal with buffers was in Passport(IMO)... one could keep going to new channels on one tuner while the other stayed locked in... not so with MDN, each new channel tune "knocks out" what HAD been on the "other" buffer.

The red triangle icons are annoying... doubly more so because the "look ahead" extends out to 72 hours. Add in the concessions you have to do to make the auto system for resolving conflicts and you HAVE to record even stuff as you watch it so it doesn't schedule another instance of the same thing, actually exacerbating the issue. It IS pretty ridiculous to have ONLY 2 one hour shows on the list and both carry the "danger" symbols.

Actually one of the things I REALLY miss (which I read has crept into maybe one system in ODN) is my OLD conflict resolution... whereby when a show is highlighted in the guide, one button press and you're looking at ALL instances of that show.

I can see why TWC changed it since it does make the tuner swapping transparent to the user and at the same time gives them the benefit (in MDN at least) of having two channels buffering simultaneously so you an flip back and forth between them. Since PiP is now gone that's the only way you can "watch" two channels at the same time.

In ODN since the buffer resets with every channel switch you don't get that minor advantage.

I know there are some real differences in how buffers are dealt with in ODN due to differences in the box. MDN at this point is pretty simple, and not at all like how Passport handled it. Say you have 2 and 4 on each respective buffer. Watching 4. Tune into 7, 2 is now gone and the "other" buffer has 4. Tune to 11, and 4 goes away and you now are buffering 7 and 11. In passport, you'd still be buffering 2 while watching 11.

But, the MDN buffering does work well when you are skipping back and forth between two channels: watching channel 2, then 4, then 2, then 4, ...

-barry

If you're fast-forwarding or reversing through a movie that you have recorded on the DVR, the screen shows the logo and program info for the TV station you were watching before you started the DVR playback, instead of a progress bar showing where you are in the recorded movie. Is there some way to change this?

Also, on my 8300HDC box, the audio output switches from Dolby Digital to HDMI (which is inferior sound quality) every time the box is turned off and on again. Some earlier threads indicate that this bug is widely reported--is there any workaround, other than programming a macro into a remote to make the box switch the audio back to Dolby Digital.

Also, on my 8300HDC box, the audio output switches from Dolby Digital to HDMI (which is inferior sound quality) every time the box is turned off and on again. Some earlier threads indicate that this bug is widely reported--is there any workaround, other than programming a macro into a remote to make the box switch the audio back to Dolby Digital.My workaround was to switch to component. It only switches if you have an HDMI connection.

My workaround was to switch to component. It only switches if you have an HDMI connection. On my TV, component video from this box yields a much softer picture than via HDMI, so I guess I'm programming that macro.

I've got the problem with the audio output switching to HDMI as well. In my opinion buying a new receiver that does HDMI or switching to component are NOT GOOD SOLUTIONS, as this worked BEFORE the upgrade to the latest software. I've heard a LOT of people complaining about this... not everyone is going to want to upgrade to a new receiver just to fix it, or use component cables... complete BS in my opinion.

When do the 8640/8650's come out? And what's the chance of getting one when they do? I can't say the functionality would be different, I don't know, but I'd definitely like to try it at least. Otherwise, I hate to threaten, but the audio thing is really a deal breaker for me at this point... super annoying.

It's not just you! There are a lot of people who seem to like the MDN boxes better. However, all should remember this depends on your division, age and type of box, quality of wiring and signal strength, your box settings, and sometimes your TV and its settings.

Customers are seeing more and more that you can't take issues with one box or division, and apply them to another box or division.


..........

Jack

This is great information. Thanks for sharing!

I've got the problem with the audio output switching to HDMI as well. In my opinion buying a new receiver that does HDMI or switching to component are NOT GOOD SOLUTIONS, as this worked BEFORE the upgrade to the latest software. I've heard a LOT of people complaining about this... not everyone is going to want to upgrade to a new receiver just to fix it, or use component cables... complete BS in my opinion.

When do the 8640/8650's come out? And what's the chance of getting one when they do? I can't say the functionality would be different, I don't know, but I'd definitely like to try it at least. Otherwise, I hate to threaten, but the audio thing is really a deal breaker for me at this point... super annoying.

I can confirm that my TWC 8640HDC with the ODN 3.1.3_3 firmware has the same HDMI problem affecting not only the Audio HDMI setting but also reverts back to 480 output resolution every time you change inputs or the TV or cable box is powered off/on and I have mine set to only output 1080i.

This is not a good trend. Seems like every time they come out with a new release, they either break something that was working or they remove a useful feature.

I can confirm that my TWC 8640HDC with the ODN 3.1.3_3 firmware has the same HDMI problem affecting not only the Audio HDMI setting but also reverts back to 480 output resolution every time you change inputs or the TV or cable box is powered off/on and I have mine set to only output 1080i.

Wait... so the 8640 has BOTH issues?? wow... this really sucks. I was hoping to get rid of at least the audio issue in favor of the hdmi one... this is terrible that I have to trade one horrible issue off for another to "improve" my experience with the service.

Do we have any recourse in the matter? I can't even tell them I'm going to switch to verizon because they know verizon isn't putting in new service in albany right now.... damnit anyhow.

Well I spoke with yet another rep tonight from TWC. He said TWC is aware of the issue with the audio settings reverting back to HDMI, and also stated that it has been forwarded to the correct department and there will be a fix for this. No time frame was given, and at this point I had asked my allotted number of questions apparently and he politely cut me off. :) It's close to april fools... this is about the time when I stop enjoying the internet for a week or two... so I dunno if he's pulling my chain or not....I guess we'll see.

Do we have any recourse in the matter? I can't even tell them I'm going to switch to verizon because they know verizon isn't putting in new service in albany right now.... damnit anyhow.

Get a TiVo, Moxi or WMC PC.

You'll still be stuck with TWC but at least the hardware and software will be on your terms.

Maine is starting to get Navigator in the SA areas. The SA areas are former Motorola divisions that switched over to SA. They used to use SARA and before that iGuide on motorola boxes.

Copley Ohio just got the update to Navigator. without going through 333 pages of this thread, is there any nice online manual for it. The one at the Time Warner site is very slim on information.

Seems like the Navigator rollout to SARA areas is now going on full blown. This could be good as to getting the new features faster once everyone has it and the different area bugs are ironed out. WOODY

apologies if I'm in the wrong forum... I'm a TW customer in the Raleigh NC market... I happily had an external SATA 750G running on my 8300HD for the past several years. The drive died this week and I'm looking to replace it, but checked here and it seems the consensus is that new software may be coming that makes external drives nonfunctional... is there any way to figure out if this is the case for my market? I don't want to go and mess with buying/attaching a new drive if it's just going to get turned off in a month.

If you keep your 8300HD the drive should continue to work through the Navigator update. At least, that's been my experience and that of most other 8300HD owners. There's always the chance that you get an update that disables the eSATA port ... but it's probably fairly unlikely.

I submitted feedback via the website a few days ago for the new navigator after my first call and the recommendation of the manager I spoke to... I received this e-mail tonight from their support dept I would assume. So I guess this makes it official on the HDMI audio out settings issue, a fix is on the way.

Thank you for your feedback regarding our new Navigator menu system. We value all feedback and are taking all concerns seriously as we work to make the Navigator a better experience for you and all of our customers. At this time our engineers are working on a resolution to your dilemma. As stated by the manager you spoke to the only thing that would work at this time is the component set up mentioned. I apologize for any inconvenience. If you have any further questions or concerns please do not hesitate to call us at 1-866-321-2225. We are open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. You can also find tips and answers to FAQ's at www.twcnavigator.com or channel 1001.
- Jon

Here is a quote from a person who got MDN v2.5.

My DVR box got a software update last night around 4:30 am. The new version is MDN 2.5.0-48 (Mt. Lindsey). Here's a list of the changes I've noticed so far:

-In the program guide, when selecting a program in the menu that appears, there's now an "All Showings" entry which displays all future airings of that program on all channels.
-In program search (Find Shows), program entries are no longer duplicated. A single program entry lists air times as well as On Demand/PPV (if it has the same title).
-In the Settings menu under Display is a new setting called DVR Compensation, which controls the amount of time to jump back or forward when going from FF/REW to Play. Can be set to Normal, More, Less, or None.
-Diagnostic menu now has a new page called Remote DVR.

Wow.

It's pretty impressive that TWC addressed 4 frequent complaints of users on this forum all in one update.

Here is a quote from a person who got MDN v2.5.

What city or area is Mt. Lindsey?

Jack


PS. Found Mt. Lindsey is another Mountain range in Colorado. TWC names Navigator updates after these mountain ranges! LOL! Anyway, cool that updates are coming out now! I wonder if MDN 2.5 has "Nearest Tune" and the ability where show searches begin on the show being watched?

-In the program guide, when selecting a program in the menu that appears, there's now an "All Showings" entry which displays all future airings of that program on all channels.
-In program search (Find Shows), program entries are no longer duplicated. A single program entry lists air times as well as On Demand/PPV (if it has the same title).
-In the Settings menu under Display is a new setting called DVR Compensation, which controls the amount of time to jump back or forward when going from FF/REW to Play. Can be set to Normal, More, Less, or None.
-Diagnostic menu now has a new page called Remote DVR.

The "All Showings" was an added feature in ODN 3.2, as was the Remote DVR page in the ODN diagnostics page.

The "Find Shows" change sounds like it matches how ODN has always behaved (at least since ODN 3.1.x).

Fine tuning the jumpback is good as long as they don't mess up the basic functionality... it has always worked fairly well on the 8300 series boxes.

BTW... I understand that MDN 2.5 is about to begin a staged rollout in the Raleigh division. Employee boxes may have already been upgraded - scheduled completion date is 4/21.

I don't see a "Nearest Tune" option in the settings. When I pressed 'B' to find shows, the list started with the program currently being watched.

I believe that MDN 2.5 is about to begin a staged rollout in the Raleigh division. Employee boxes may have already been upgraded - scheduled completion date is 4/21.

I found out that MDN 2.5 based on the poster's posts was rolled out to MDN boxes in Florida, which is Brighthouse Networks the sister company of TWC. Strange that TWC would do the first role outs of a software update to BHN and not to one of their other cities that usually gets updates first.

I would suspect a big national rollout sooner than later. Probably around June after TWC finishes the Navigator updates for Ohio and New York regions. They are "finally" working very diligently on this based on the various reports that I have heard from different sources.

I think the big reason is to push the development of the Remote DVR Management System. The latest ODN versions and MDN 2.5 will have that feature once the TWC office managers activate it in TWC "My Services" web accounts.

Jack

I don't see a "Nearest Tune" option in the settings. When I pressed 'B' to find shows, the list started with the program currently being watched.

Michael,

I take it you did not get an advance notice of the update? Phone call or anything like a day before? Thanks for providing this information to us.

Jack

When my engineering contact said they wouldn't do legacy for a while, he didn't rule out the possibility of future updates. TWC San Diego might just wait a bit before releasing a new MDN update. MDN v2.5.0-48 is probably on employee boxes and RemoteDVR must be in employee testing right now.

I was remiss in thanking jcalabria for the helpful info about how series recording handles schedule conflicts. That was exactly what I wanted to know and I appreciate it.

There was a note in our local thread today that TWC is changing our channel lineup in June to base it by category. Has anyone experienced this under Navigator recently? My specific concerns are two-fold:

1) The obvious one is that I assume all series recording will need to be deleted and rescheduled. Anyone know for sure?

2) Will there be any impact on previously recorded stuff? For example, if I have a TCM movie recorded from what is currently channel 57, will the channel change affect the recording or playback in any way since that channel info is probably going to be incorrect after the realignment?

Ironically, as much sense as this makes for the long run, it might cause me to more seriously consider changing services- if I'm going to have to learn a new lineup anyway...

I was remiss in thanking jcalabria for the helpful info about how series recording handles schedule conflicts. That was exactly what I wanted to know and I appreciate it.

There was a note in our local thread today that TWC is changing our channel lineup in June to base it by category. Has anyone experienced this under Navigator recently? My specific concerns are two-fold:

1) The obvious one is that I assume all series recording will need to be deleted and rescheduled. Anyone know for sure?

2) Will there be any impact on previously recorded stuff? For example, if I have a TCM movie recorded from what is currently channel 57, will the channel change affect the recording or playback in any way since that channel info is probably going to be incorrect after the realignment?

Ironically, as much sense as this makes for the long run, it might cause me to more seriously consider changing services- if I'm going to have to learn a new lineup anyway...When central Ohio went through a major lineup change, it was pretty much transparent as far as scheduled recordings are concerned. The only thing you will have to reschedule are series that are not airing in the week following the transition.

I was remiss in thanking jcalabria for the helpful info about how series recording handles schedule conflicts. That was exactly what I wanted to know and I appreciate it.

There was a note in our local thread today that TWC is changing our channel lineup in June to base it by category. Has anyone experienced this under Navigator recently? My specific concerns are two-fold:

1) The obvious one is that I assume all series recording will need to be deleted and rescheduled. Anyone know for sure?

2) Will there be any impact on previously recorded stuff? For example, if I have a TCM movie recorded from what is currently channel 57, will the channel change affect the recording or playback in any way since that channel info is probably going to be incorrect after the realignment?

Ironically, as much sense as this makes for the long run, it might cause me to more seriously consider changing services- if I'm going to have to learn a new lineup anyway...

This is what I understand based on a COMPOSITE of people who have received the updates. All of this is "Knock on Wood." First Some Tips:

If you got a phone call or notice on your Navigator upgrade, WRITE down your current system settings such as:

Favorite Channels
Banner Duration (Speed)
HD Picture Settings
Audio Settings
Clock/Channel Display
Current Recordings on DVR
Scheduled Recordings on DVR.

(etc.)

Than, after the upgrade, go to Settings and see what carried over and what you need to change.

Next,

Individual recordings SHOULD carry over to Navigator and WILL automatically assume new channel numbers in the line up change. HOWEVER note the following:

Your Favorite Channels that you have individually selected may have to be reprogrammed. Make a list of your Favorite Channels. Go to your TWC Website or any mailings to note where your new Favorite channels will be after the transition and write them down for reference.

For Navigator, SERIES recordings SHOULD carry over provided that there is AT LEAST ONE INSTANCE of the recorded series in the future, once the transition is complete. A series that has no future showings within the seven day time slot that Navigator looks for future shows will generally not carry over.

If you have padded recording times for a series OR an individual show. (i.e starting a show 5 minutes early and ending 10 minutes later.) Navigator may ignore the padded time beginning the show at the traditional hour or half hour in the guide. These shows and series will have to be deleted and than reprogrammed with padded times. To add padded time to a SHOW:

1.) Select The Show from The Guide.

2.) Select "Record Show With Options"

3.) Follow the Prompts, using the Left/Right Up/Down arrows to modify time for when you want the DVR to start and stop recording.

To add padded time to a SERIES, it's the same as above, but just replace Step #2 by selecting, "Record Series With Options."

Helpful Hint: The guide goes out 7 days from the current day. Users with the Day +/- buttons on their remotes can press the day+ button to advance by one day at a time. If you don't have a Day button:

1.) Press Guide

2.) Press the number of days you wish to advance (up to 7) followed by the RIGHT-ARROW key.

3.) The quickest way to go back to the current day in the Guide, is to press Guide twice after doing Step #2.

4.) After the transition, newly installed or updated boxes may only show up to two days of data without a "Loading Data" prompt for days 3-7. Users may need to allow up to 24 hours for the cable head-end to get all the program information data, to allow up to a 7 day advance without waiting.

Jack

Users with the Day +/- buttons on their remotes can press the day+ button to advance by one day at a time. If you don't have a Day button:

1.) Press Guide

2.) Press the number of days you wish to advance (up to 7) followed by the RIGHT-ARROW key.

My remote does have the Day +/- button, but the shortcut of pressing a number and then the right or left arrow key is a much quicker way to move through days.

I just wish there was some way to move through the day like that. For example, if I check the guide at 8am, getting to 8pm involves scrolling. I wish there was a button that shifted the guide 12 hours either way. Or, better yet, 3, 6, 9, & 12 hours, sort of like the 15 minute skip you get when you hold down FF or REW. (And mentioning that reminds me yet again how often I used 'skip to end' under SARA.)

My remote does have the Day +/- button, but the shortcut of pressing a number and then the right or left arrow key is a much quicker way to move through days.

I just wish there was some way to move through the day like that. For example, if I check the guide at 8am, getting to 8pm involves scrolling. I wish there was a button that shifted the guide 12 hours either way. Or, better yet, 3, 6, 9, & 12 hours, sort of like the 15 minute skip you get when you hold down FF or REW. (And mentioning that reminds me yet again how often I used 'skip to end' under SARA.)

I like that idea!!! The Carolinas are very good about customer responses for updates. You should send your quick hour advance scrolling idea to your division and have them forward it to the Engineering Department for consideration in a future update. It probably won't be in the next couple of update batches because they have other stuff planned in the query for the guide. But it would still be a cool future feature.

Coming from Passport, I miss the ability to go to a future program in the Guide and have a "View This Channel Now" option as a prompt for a future show.

Jack

So far, this is what we know about TWC-Navigator MDN 2.5

Brighthouse Networks of Florida, sister company of TWC first to get this update.

Keyboard Searches begin on the program being watched. (Long overdue!)

All Showings-For future shows in guide can now be seen at once. (I would assume that this is still based on the title of the show.)

Keyboard Title Searches no longer repeat in the results list (Long Overdue.)

Customers can now choose to control Jump Back Speed for the DVR

Enables the coming soon feature of Remote DVR Management with the use of any Internet Connected Device and the registration of a local TWC "My Services" Account.

Do you notice more detail in the program guide descriptions?

Jack

And whether MDN's eSATA port to an external hard drive still works....
And whether they fixed the glitches/hangups on the IEEE-1394 Firewire port....

Michael,

I take it you did not get an advance notice of the update? Phone call or anything like a day before? Thanks for providing this information to us.

Jack

BHN only gave us advance notice when they first rolled out MDN. I really can't remember when that was.

And whether MDN's eSATA port to an external hard drive still works....
And whether they fixed the glitches/hangups on the IEEE-1394 Firewire port....

We have an external drive connected to a SA 8300HD running MDN 2.5 and it's still working.

Do you notice more detail in the program guide descriptions?

Jack

Not in MDN. ODN has more detail, but I replaced our 8300HDC with a Moxi.

I found out that MDN 2.5 based on the poster's posts was rolled out to MDN boxes in Florida, which is Brighthouse Networks the sister company of TWC.

Going to be interesting to see when my market gets this minor, but worthwhile update... then again, whatever happened to the "more like we used to get" guide data that some areas got several months ago?

Going to be interesting to see when my market gets this minor, but worthwhile update... then again, whatever happened to the "more like we used to get" guide data that some areas got several months ago?

I agree Riverside,

At least a division now has a new MDN version! But I was thinking it is possible that some of that guide data could be controlled by the individual head end. San Diego was/is testing the expanded guide format, I think. But I think that might have been just for ODN. So now we have three MDN versions out there:

MDN 2.4.6_19 (widespread)
MDN 2.4.6_21 (Your division alone)
MDN 2.5. (BrightHouse Networks, Florida.)

That was REALLY a curve ball thrown by TWC that Brighthouse Networks would be the first to get an MDN software update! (That like.....NEVER Happens! LOL!)

Now, at least from what I know, the HDC boxes and the Samsungs are still running the same OCAP versions.

Jack

I have a problem keeping 5.1 DD audio thru my BOSE 321 from cable box (wants to default back to PCM 2.0).

Equip:
Scientific Atlanta 8300HDC cable box
TWC - Cleveland
HDMI from cable box to TV
Digital coax cable from cable box to Bose
Optical from Bose to Blue Ray player

I get 5.1 audio to the Bose after I go into cable box menu: menu/settings/devices/audio:digital audio/dolby digital/exit

The only problem is whenever I change the TV input or turn off the TV and go back to cable, the 5.1 switches back to PCM 2.0. So then I have to go back and repeat the settings thing to get 5.1.

It's really annoying to have to switch back and forth all the time.

Is there any fix to this?

It's a known and much despised issue. The box reads the EDID from the TV and uses its audio parameters even though you would logically think it should only use the EDID if the menu setting is set to HDMI, and not when you have made a manual non-HDMI selection in the menu.


If you have the issue, the only workarounds are:

Change the menu setting every time
Use component connections to the TV
Get an HDMI receiver and route everything through there
Use an HDMI "EDID-minder" device to clone the EDID from an HDMI sink that does accept DD5.1, and insert it between the box and display.
Strangely, there are some combinations of TVs and boxes that do not do this. Even though my Samsung LCD's EDID indicates that that it accepts "Basic Audio" only, I never had any trouble with keeping DD5.1 digital output from my 8300HDC to my old non-HDMI receiver with the HDMI connected to the TV. Most, unfortunately, are not so lucky.

There some indications that TWC is aware of and working on the issue, but it has been around for so long and through so many ODN updates that it's hard to be optimistic. I could check the behavior with the latest ODN 3.2 version we have here in Charlotte, but I have that magic Samsung TV that never has caused that behavior, and also now have a Samsung 3090 box, so it probably would not be a valid test to see if ODN 3.2 has corrected the issue for the HDC boxes.

I have a problem keeping 5.1 DD audio thru my BOSE 321 from cable box (wants to default back to PCM 2.0).

Equip:
Scientific Atlanta 8300HDC cable box
TWC - Cleveland
HDMI from cable box to TV
Digital coax cable from cable box to Bose
Optical from Bose to Blue Ray player

I get 5.1 audio to the Bose after I go into cable box menu: menu/settings/devices/audio:digital audio/dolby digital/exit

The only problem is whenever I change the TV input or turn off the TV and go back to cable, the 5.1 switches back to PCM 2.0. So then I have to go back and repeat the settings thing to get 5.1.

It's really annoying to have to switch back and forth all the time.

Is there any fix to this?

It's a known and much despised issue. The box reads the EDID from the TV and uses its audio parameters even though you would logically think it should only use the EDID if the menu setting is set to HDMI, and not when you have made a manual non-HDMI selection in the menu.


If you have the issue, the only workarounds are:

Change the menu setting every time
Use component connections to the TV
Get an HDMI receiver and route everything through there
Use an HDMI "EDID-minder" device to clone the EDID from an HDMI sink that does accept DD5.1, and insert it between the box and display.
Strangely, there are some combinations of TVs and boxes that do not do this. Even though my Samsung LCD's EDID indicates that that it accepts "Basic Audio" only, I never had any trouble with keeping DD5.1 digital output from my 8300HDC to my old non-HDMI receiver with the HDMI connected to the TV. Most, unfortunately, are not so lucky.

There some indications that TWC is aware of and working on the issue, but it has been around for so long and through so many ODN updates that it's hard to be optimistic. I could check the behavior with the latest ODN 3.2 version we have here in Charlotte, but I have that magic Samsung TV that never has caused that behavior, and also now have a Samsung 3090 box, so it probably would not be a valid test to see if ODN 3.2 has corrected the issue for the HDC boxes.

What type of connections to the TV should I use without losing quality video?

What type of connections to the TV should I use without losing quality video?

Component or HDMI should yield very similar results.

It really depends upon the equipment, both the video source and monitor. The most that can be said is that HDMI has the potential to create a consistently superior image; implementation is everything. There have been devices which display artifacts on their HDMI connections which are not evident on component (black crush, white crush, etc).

Component or HDMI should yield very similar results.

It really depends upon the equipment, both the video source and monitor. The most that can be said is that HDMI has the potential to create a consistently superior image; implementation is everything. There have been devices which display artifacts on their HDMI connections which are not evident on component (black crush, white crush, etc).

I was just about to go back and edit my post re: "it depends"... but you beat me to it.:)

Time Warner recently replaced my DVR with a new 8540HDC and I'm having intermittent loss of audio and sometimes total loss of signal. My connection is HDMI cable from DVR to a Denon AVR-790 and HDMI on to a Panasonic TH58PZ800U. We often get 'gaps' in the audio while watching live or from a recording. They only last 3-4 seconds and usually 1 or 2 times per hour. Complete loss of signal happens only about weekly. On a possibly related issue we usually lose the connection from the DVR if we play music or watch a DVD and try to switch to TV. The picture is either solid blue or blue with about 15% blavk border on the left side. The only fix I've found so far is to power cycle the DVR.

The DVR is nice looking but will lock up every now and then requiring a power cycle to resume use.

Any thoughts on how to determine the culprit(s) in this fiasco? I can request a Samsung DVR from TW but the tech said they were having HDMI problems. I really like the HDMI concept but it seems kinda broken.

Thanks,
Bill

Sorry folks! I fat fingered the model number. It is a Cisco 8640HDC

Bill

This morning at 8am as I was prepareing for work my phone ran. It was my local TWC office. Last week I signed up on a list for a 8640hdc whenever they came it. I was informed one was waiting for me. I had to leave for work so I asked the wife to o by and pick it up. I now have a 8640HDC siting on my den table that I will install tonight. Turning my last 8240HDC in tomorrow and puting the 8300HD with MDN in our bedroom. As soon as I install the 8640HDC and play with it I will post a report on it. The Cisco boxes are the next generation boxes in Greensboro not the Samsung. It is not istalled yet but it has a 325 or 350meg hard drive and that is sweet. More on this box later. WOODY PS I was once again suprised but pleased on the TWC Carolina Greensboro division service.

This morning at 8am as I was prepareing for work my phone ran. It was my local TWC office. Last week I signed up on a list for a 8640hdc whenever they came it. I was informed one was waiting for me. I had to leave for work so I asked the wife to o by and pick it up. I now have a 8640HDC siting on my den table that I will install tonight. Turning my last 8240HDC in tomorrow and puting the 8300HD with MDN in our bedroom. As soon as I install the 8640HDC and play with it I will post a report on it. The Cisco boxes are the next generation boxes in Greensboro not the Samsung. It is not istalled yet but it has a 325 or 350meg hard drive and that is sweet. More on this box later. WOODY PS I was once again suprised but pleased on the TWC Carolina Greensboro division service.

Well... after lagging behind with SARA, you've gone to the head of the class. Hope it works OK for you. I know you'll like the 320GB drive.

BTW... I understand that MDN 2.5 is about to begin a staged rollout in the Raleigh division. Employee boxes may have already been upgraded - scheduled completion date is 4/21.


Thanks for the heads up. I was having problems with my eSata drive the other night so had rebooted the box several times the other night and when I woke up the next morning my box was off. I just assumed that I was tired when I went to bed and had left it off. Just checked and I have been updated to MDN 2.5.0-48. Haven't had time to check it out yet but if I find anything that hasn't been reported I will share it.

It's a known and much despised issue. The box reads the EDID from the TV and uses its audio parameters even though you would logically think it should only use the EDID if the menu setting is set to HDMI, and not when you have made a manual non-HDMI selection in the menu.


If you have the issue, the only workarounds are:

Change the menu setting every time
Use component connections to the TV
Get an HDMI receiver and route everything through there
Use an HDMI "EDID-minder" device to clone the EDID from an HDMI sink that does accept DD5.1, and insert it between the box and display.
Strangely, there are some combinations of TVs and boxes that do not do this. Even though my Samsung LCD's EDID indicates that that it accepts "Basic Audio" only, I never had any trouble with keeping DD5.1 digital output from my 8300HDC to my old non-HDMI receiver with the HDMI connected to the TV. Most, unfortunately, are not so lucky.

There some indications that TWC is aware of and working on the issue, but it has been around for so long and through so many ODN updates that it's hard to be optimistic. I could check the behavior with the latest ODN 3.2 version we have here in Charlotte, but I have that magic Samsung TV that never has caused that behavior, and also now have a Samsung 3090 box, so it probably would not be a valid test to see if ODN 3.2 has corrected the issue for the HDC boxes.

yeah, I posted they are aware of it and are working on a fix. That was in an email follow up I got from posting feedback for the new navigator...

That was REALLY a curve ball thrown by TWC that Brighthouse Networks would be the first to get an MDN software update! (That like.....NEVER Happens! LOL!)

Jack

Actually, I'm happy for our southern neighbors, I have NO issue with a division that may be forgotten to get it first. Just s long as the rest of us don't have to wait for 6-12 months!

Got an do one, need to know if others are similarly affected.

Generally, series recordings in MDN seem to work fairly consistently once you understand how MDN handles them. However, I seem to be having a major issue with one of mine... it's for Survivors, that BBC series on BBC-A (which is pretty good, btw). It originally aired on Sat. BUT carried no NEW designation, so I set it as a "New and Repeats." Seemed to work fine. They moved it's first run to Tuesday and seemed to add the proper NEW designation. All was well for it's first run on Tues.

Last week I see that it was NOT scheduled. THAT week had no conflicts, but even if there were, it should show up as an unresolved conflict (until guide data was loaded that had a repeat). So I set a "new" series recording, deleted the old one and it recorded.

Now I'm seeing that next week, it is being 100% ignored. Yes, there IS a conflict, but it SHOULD show up as a conflict, but nada. Typically, it SHOULD show as an unresolved conflict until a repeat shows up in the schedule. Which happens at midnight (Tues/Wed). But nothing is scheduled.

Anyone see this with this series?

Actually, I'm happy for our southern neighbors, I have NO issue with a division that may be forgotten to get it first. Just s long as the rest of us don't have to wait for 6-12 months!

Well now that they are rolling it out to an actual TWC division you may not have to wait as long. In addition to all the things previously reported some of the menus have a few cosmetic changes and start over seems to be working differently than before although I rarely used start over so I don't know for certain. I changed the FF/Rew duration last night but have not seen a noticable difference yet. I will continue to play with it tonight.

So we had our 8300hdc updated to Navigator within the last week or so in Northeast OH and it's been fine for the most part.

I have a question about the series manager. For whatever reason, it's not following the priorities that I've set for it. For example, on Monday's at 10pm, I have Castle>No Reservations>Damages (because there should be repeats), yet while correctly telling me there's a conflict, it's listing No Reservations as not recording instead of Damages. On Tuesday, I have V>Parenthood>Justified, yet Parenthood is listed as not recording. Yesterday, it was fine and even had Damages & Justified listed as recording at 11pm instead. Now, not only are No Reservations & Parenthood listed as not recording, it's listing Damages & Justified as recording at 10pm & 11pm. I'm just wondering if anyone else has had similar issues. Is this something that'll take care of itself as the week goes on, or will I have to step in?

ODN version 3.1.3.3

So we had our 8300hdc updated to Navigator within the last week or so in Northeast OH and it's been fine for the most part.

I have a question about the series manager. For whatever reason, it's not following the priorities that I've set for it. For example, on Monday's at 10pm, I have Castle>No Reservations>Damages (because there should be repeats), yet while correctly telling me there's a conflict, it's listing No Reservations as not recording instead of Damages. On Tuesday, I have V>Parenthood>Justified, yet Parenthood is listed as not recording. Yesterday, it was fine and even had Damages & Justified listed as recording at 11pm instead. Now, not only are No Reservations & Parenthood listed as not recording, it's listing Damages & Justified as recording at 10pm & 11pm. I'm just wondering if anyone else has had similar issues. Is this something that'll take care of itself as the week goes on, or will I have to step in?

ODN version 3.1.3.3

Seems that they will do that during the first few days after a conversion... it should settle down.

I'm not 100% sure why it works that way, but I suspect that series recordings that were already "on the schedule" within the 1 week look-ahead window are converted as if they were single show recordings, which don't follow the same conflict resolution rules (e.g., no priority settings). As new shows are picked up by the regular series recording mechanism, things settle down and follow the rules.

I got my 8640HDC installed. It works great. Does anyone know where I find the hardrive size in the diogonists menu. Found I am still on 3.1.33 but cannot find the hard drive size. Any help would be appreciated. Also the sort by favorites feature still there. I expect the next update will delete it The 8640 is a lot faster than the 8300hdc and 8240hdc. All systems o ar are fast and smooth. All the lag seems to be gone. It runs as fast as SARA did. WOODY.

I got my 8640HDC installed. It works great. Does anyone know where I find the hardrive size in the diogonists menu. Found I am still on 3.1.33 but cannot find the hard drive size. Any help would be appreciated. Also the sort by favorites feature still there. I expect the next update will delete it The 8640 is a lot faster than the 8300hdc and 8240hdc. All systems o ar are fast and smooth. All the lag seems to be gone. It runs as fast as SARA did. WOODY.

It seems to be on page 11 (disk info) on the diagnostics menu. Total size.

Seems that they will do that during the first few days after a conversion... it should settle down.

I'm not 100% sure why it works that way, but I suspect that series recordings that were already "on the schedule" within the 1 week look-ahead window are converted as if they were single show recordings, which don't follow the same conflict resolution rules (e.g., no priority settings). As new shows are picked up by the regular series recording mechanism, things settle down and follow the rules.

So basically the first time I add a series, it may treat it like a single show recording, but after that, it'll work as it should, is that right? I did just add Damages & Justified a day or two ago to the series manager (previously I had been doing a single recording at 11pm on their respective nights), so it does sound like what you're saying is what's happening. Thanks for the help!

So basically the first time I add a series, it may treat it like a single show recording, but after that, it'll work as it should, is that right? I did just add Damages & Justified a day or two ago to the series manager (previously I had been doing a single recording at 11pm on their respective nights), so it does sound like what you're saying is what's happening. Thanks for the help!

I found out some great advice on this forum about the Series Manager. Who knows whether or not this works for all the boxes, but what was said is the following:

1.) If you have gotten a new box or you have been recently updated from an older guide system, say SARA to Navigator it can take the guide up to 24 hours to synchronize itself with series recordings schedules. The same is true to fully populate guide data without pressing the Day advance button or going (Select Guide/Enter Number/Press Right Arrow) Once the guide gets populated with the 7 days of show information it does a great job on series recording and "look aheads."

2.) The thing to do is "DON'T DELETE A SERIES BEFORE YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO WATCH THE EPISODE." Than, just treat it like a regular show. Navigator needs those first seven days (The amount of time that it looks ahead) to "learn" how to look for series. Once you get past that first week it usually works great.

I don't even record series, but I know people on the forum who follow these steps and doing so seems to make Navigator "behave" better for Series Recordings.

Jack

So basically the first time I add a series, it may treat it like a single show recording, but after that, it'll work as it should, is that right? I did just add Damages & Justified a day or two ago to the series manager (previously I had been doing a single recording at 11pm on their respective nights), so it does sound like what you're saying is what's happening. Thanks for the help!

The box needs evidence on the drive that an episode was recorded - even if you stop and delete it 10 seconds after it starts.

Until it sees evidence that it started the recording task it will assume that it hasn't and just like any malfunctioning SF robot will attempt to record that episode until successful or go crazy trying.

So basically the first time I add a series, it may treat it like a single show recording, but after that, it'll work as it should, is that right? I did just add Damages & Justified a day or two ago to the series manager (previously I had been doing a single recording at 11pm on their respective nights), so it does sound like what you're saying is what's happening. Thanks for the help!
My wife and I together have over 40 series in the series manager. It handles them to perfection. There is a one week break in period on the series manager after that almost perfection. As long as you have your series priority set right avoid any manual intervention when conflicts show up. Series Manager handles conflicts very well without the urge for manual intrvention and in almost all cases better. WOODY

The fast forward on the new 8640HDC is much much faster than the 8240hdc or the 8300hdc. Mine has a 320gb hard drive. This is strange s my cousin in Florida got her 8640HDC with a 500gb hard drive she is on Brighthouse.. The 8640 I found from reading Cisco spec sheet comes in a 160 hd a 320 hd and a 500 hd. Why TWC did not just go with the 500 fools me. Maybe they did not want to show Samsung up to bad. Oh yea the 8640HDC still has a very nice PIP. WOODY PS Feel like I am driveing a Lincoln now compared to the 160HD I gave up in the 8240w I turned in. WOODY

I found out some great advice on this forum about the Series Manager. Who knows whether or not this works for all the boxes, but what was said is the following:

1.) If you have gotten a new box or you have been recently updated from an older guide system, say SARA to Navigator it can take the guide up to 24 hours to synchronize itself with series recordings schedules. The same is true to fully populate guide data without pressing the Day advance button or going (Select Guide/Enter Number/Press Right Arrow) Once the guide gets populated with the 7 days of show information it does a great job on series recording and "look aheads."

A okay, that's good to know. Thanks! I did just reboot the dvr a day or two ago because I thought maybe that was what the problem was.


2.) The thing to do is "DON'T DELETE A SERIES BEFORE YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO WATCH THE EPISODE." Than, just treat it like a regular show. Navigator needs those first seven days (The amount of time that it looks ahead) to "learn" how to look for series. Once you get past that first week it usually works great.


This part sort of confuses me in that why would I delete a series (I'm guessing you mean off the manager) if I want to record it? Do mean not to fiddle with it and just let it sit in the manager for a week so it'll figure itself out?

The box needs evidence on the drive that an episode was recorded - even if you stop and delete it 10 seconds after it starts.

Until it sees evidence that it started the recording task it will assume that it hasn't and just like any malfunctioning SF robot will attempt to record that episode until successful or go crazy trying.

I did a search through the thread and saw that the series manager was tied to the recording log, which is good to know that it actually has a use. I was wondering how the dvr was deciding which episode of a cable series to record when the repeats during the week also listed them as new. So what you mention must be tied into that.

My wife and I together have over 40 series in the series manager. It handles them to perfection. There is a one week break in period on the series manager after that almost perfection. As long as you have your series priority set right avoid any manual intervention when conflicts show up. Series Manager handles conflicts very well without the urge for manual intrvention and in almost all cases better. WOODY

Okay, so I guess I'll just leave it be for now and see if it works itself out by Monday. I probably didn't do myself any favors by rebooting the thing on Monday or Tuesday.

Thanks for the info!

A okay, that's good to know. Thanks! I did just reboot the dvr a day or two ago because I thought maybe that was what the problem was.



This part sort of confuses me in that why would I delete a series (I'm guessing you mean off the manager) if I want to record it? Do mean not to fiddle with it and just let it sit in the manager for a week so it'll figure itself out?

Exactly,

Let the guide data populate for about two days following a new box install or swap. Sometimes a freshly rebooted box can take 12-24 hours to automatically populate all the guide data. Fresh installs or reboots of boxes may only go out about 2-3 days instead of 7.

Yes, don't fiddle with the Series Manager trying to update Series recordings or modify them until AFTER you have watched a full episode of the series. Let Navigator handle the conflicts instead of you. What we are finding people are doing is they are trying to over-ride conflicts before that first series episode records. Let Navigator completely record that episode and follow the prompts for dealing with that episode AFTER you have watched the show. For individual one time SHOWS (not series) this is not a big deal.

But for series, as stated. "Navigator needs AT LEAST evidence of ONE completely recorded episode of a series before it will deal with those subsequent recordings of that series properly. If you DON'T allow for the full recording of an episode of a series, Navigator could mess up future airings of that series!" If you mess that up, you may have to go into Series Manager and DELETE the whole series starting all over again.

The Main Points Are:

1.) Don't cancel a series before at least one episode of that series FULLY records. Watch the episode on Playback and follow the prompts at the end, treating it like a regular show.

2.) Let Navigator work out its own conflicts on Series Recordings for the first week of the series and/or for the first week of having a new or updated box. If fact, try to let Navigator work out series conflicts on its own as much as possible. This is one area where it seems to do a good job for most people.

3.) When you get to the second week of the series, you'll have a better understanding on how Navigator deals with Series Recording Episodes.

Hope this helps!

Jack

This part sort of confuses me in that why would I delete a series (I'm guessing you mean off the manager) if I want to record it? Do mean not to fiddle with it and just let it sit in the manager for a week so it'll figure itself out?

Because even after it "settles down" there can be an issue. It has been pretty reliable for me until I ran into the issues I detailed above about a series recording for a BBC show.

One thing I noticed... if you HAVE a series recording for a particular show, if you select an "future" instance, you should NOT be able to choose the series recording function... again. However, in my "Survivors" instance I saw one COULD do that. Which seems to be an indication the original series recording isn't recognized by the box. So, I deleted the old one and set up another one (third one). Set it and immediately moved it in the priority list to follow 2-3 potential network shows. Boom, it scheduled the midnight showing, just like it should. I'll see next week if it continues to function correctly.

Because even after it "settles down" there can be an issue. It has been pretty reliable for me until I ran into the issues I detailed above about a series recording for a BBC show.

One thing I noticed... if you HAVE a series recording for a particular show, if you select an "future" instance, you should NOT be able to choose the series recording function... again. However, in my "Survivors" instance I saw one COULD do that. Which seems to be an indication the original series recording isn't recognized by the box. So, I deleted the old one and set up another one (third one). Set it and immediately moved it in the priority list to follow 2-3 potential network shows. Boom, it scheduled the midnight showing, just like it should. I'll see next week if it continues to function correctly.
To me the Navigator series Manager is one area it is superior to Passport and closer to Tivo. I had Passport at our beach cabin and I like the way Navigator reschedules shows. I just set up Merlin for this Friday night on SYFY. I set it at a higher priority than the 10 showing of Spartacus on Starz. Navigator smartly without any manual help set up a 12:30 showing of Spartacus. This is how a modern DVR should work. Add keyword search and copy to vcr/dvr, manual recording and remote programing and Navigator has arrived. My new 8640HDC makes useing Navigator a real pleasure. WOODY

yeah, I posted they are aware of it and are working on a fix. That was in an email follow up I got from posting feedback for the new navigator...

I've just gotten 8640HDC, and that issue (that caused me to add a macro to my remote control) is now gone :D . (I have it connected with HDMI to TV and optical to receiver). The ODN version is the same as 8300 (3.1.3.3).

On the other hand, 8640 has a strange bug: when you turn it on, it will be in 480i mode even though it may be on an HD channel; switching to other HD channels does not help. Switching to SD channel and then switching back fixes this. I changed the Power On Channel to an SD channel to avoid this, and now it works fine. I don't know if this helps the switching to HDMI from DD issue as well, but now it all seems to work fine.

And yes, it is black, it is faster than 8300, and has a 320GB drive (diagnostics show about 295). I don't see a down side yet, but I have not tested it enough to say much. My 8300 remains here until I am reasonably confident that 8640 works reliably (and also until I watch I have recorded on it). TWC pro-rates the DVR fee, so there is not much downside to keeping both for a few days.

I was told on the phone yesterday that the cisco boxes are going to be deployed on may15 th here in central ny ....This was coming from a supervisor ...The tech i originally talk to said she had no idea so she asked her boss and ....walla we are in fact are getting cisco and not samsung he said....which by the sounds was a great move on time warner's part. Based on consenus opinion. I had to call after hearing about a waiting list to get a cisco box .... just me be a lil impatient ha ha !!! Wouldn't it mean that navigator would have to be deployed before that date as well ? My gut says yes.

I was told on the phone yesterday that the cisco boxes are going to be deployed on may15 th here in central ny ....This was coming from a supervisor ...The tech i originally talk to said she had no idea so she asked her boss and ....walla we are in fact are getting cisco and not samsung he said....which by the sounds was a great move on time warner's part. Based on consenus opinion. I had to call after hearing about a waiting list to get a cisco box .... just me be a lil impatient ha ha !!! Wouldn't it mean that navigator would have to be deployed before that date as well ? My gut says yes.

Sounds great Abyss!!!

Getting ready for your "Gator!!!!"

Jack

I just hope i just don't get bit satch!

I was told on the phone yesterday that the cisco boxes are going to be deployed on may15 th here in central ny ....This was coming from a supervisor ...The tech i originally talk to said she had no idea so she asked her boss and ....walla we are in fact are getting cisco and not samsung he said....which by the sounds was a great move on time warner's part. Based on consenus opinion. I had to call after hearing about a waiting list to get a cisco box .... just me be a lil impatient ha ha !!! Wouldn't it mean that navigator would have to be deployed before that date as well ? My gut says yes.

It was the same in Greensboro. We had to sign up on a list for a 8640HDC. Happily my waiting time on the list was two days. Good luck to you my friend enjoy Navigator to its fullest on a 8640HDC. WOODY

Well thanks woody i hope it's soon.

I was told on the phone yesterday that the cisco boxes are going to be deployed on may15 th here in central ny ....This was coming from a supervisor ...The tech i originally talk to said she had no idea so she asked her boss and ....walla we are in fact are getting cisco and not samsung he said....which by the sounds was a great move on time warner's part. Based on consenus opinion. I had to call after hearing about a waiting list to get a cisco box .... just me be a lil impatient ha ha !!! Wouldn't it mean that navigator would have to be deployed before that date as well ? My gut says yes.

abyss, I was at the Rome office a few weeks back and the girl didn't know what I was talking about. Did you have to get on a waiting list? Jeff Unaitis said he would inform me as to when our area gets them because I too want to pick one up as soon as possible. Once I'm convinced it outperforms my 8300HD, I will keep it.

It was the same in Greensboro. We had to sign up on a list for a 8640HDC. Happily my waiting time on the list was two days. Good luck to you my friend enjoy Navigator to its fullest on a 8640HDC. WOODY

One more weird thing with 8640HDC: it switches to slow motions for a second when I hit the instant replay button, then it goes back to normal speed. Weird, but not a big deal. 8300HDC is going back soon.

Nope ben no waiting list as of yet... but based on what a supervisor had told the time warner rep behind the scenes ....was that at the moment time warner central ny is not sure how they are distributing them yet. But by all accounts i think a waiting list should be coming into fruition soon....if they are indeed releasing it on or around may 15th. I would think maybe some info will be in all of our bills on or around the 19th of april due to having paper billing a month ahead.

Nope ben no waiting list as of yet... but based on what a supervisor had told the time warner rep behind the scenes ....was that at the moment time warner central ny is not sure how they are distributing them yet. But by all accounts i think a waiting list should be coming into fruition soon....if they are indeed releasing it on or around may 15th. I would think maybe some info will be in all of our bills on or around the 19th of April due to having paper billing a month ahead.

And I would also suspect that they will still have tons of the legacy boxes around while the performance of the newer models are evaluated. But from what I have heard, the new boxes are doing well.

Jack

Nope ben no waiting list as of yet... but based on what a supervisor had told the time warner rep behind the scenes ....was that at the moment time warner central ny is not sure how they are distributing them yet. But by all accounts i think a waiting list should be coming into fruition soon....if they are indeed releasing it on or around may 15th. I would think maybe some info will be in all of our bills on or around the 19th of april due to having paper billing a month ahead.

Abyss,

Yea, You would think they would give about a 30 day heads up for the new boxes. AND Navigator for your division. I would HOPE that you get something in the mail this month about "Navigator!" As you know, there's the two different box versions. ODN for the HDC versions and Samsungs and the MDN versions for non-C boxes.

I only have an MDN SA-8300HD box. My version of Navigator is MDN 2.4.6_19. It looks like that is what they are rolling out in New York. A new version just came out to Florida-BrightHouse Networks. Brighthouse Networks is TWC's sister company. The MDN Navigator update has been released to some regions of North Carolina as well. The latest version is MDN 2.5.0_48 That upgrade could roll out around June, but some divisions are likely going to be getting it in May. And than of course we have Riverside Guy with his very OWN MDN build that no one else has! MDN 2.4.6_21. But there aren't any noticeable differences between the mainstream build of MDN 2.4.6_19 and from what Riverside has said, for his MDN 2.4.6_21 version.

I don't know what the latest version of ODN Navigator is.

Jack

Why would you expect them to give you warning that new boxes are coming? They don't get any more for the new boxes than for the old and they don't care whether you get them (unless, of course, you're willing to pay for an expensive truck roll to have one delivered and installed :)).

Why would you expect them to give you warning that new boxes are coming? They don't get any more for the new boxes than for the old and they don't care whether you get them (unless, of course, you're willing to pay for an expensive truck roll to have one delivered and installed :)).

LOL!!!

True! They probably just would rather sit and do nothing, wait for the older boxes to die out naturally over time, and than have the customer set up a service call or bring the boxes in to get them replaced. If your cable is not out or having problems and you set up a service call, they can charge you for a truck roll.

Jack

I'm so desperate for a new box and a new interface i just might pay a lil extra...HAHA!!!!!!

I'm so desperate for a new box and a new interface i just might pay a lil extra...HAHA!!!!!!

Hahahahahaha!!!!

Abyss,

The first TWC customer in HISTORY to OFFER to PAY the tech/installer for the new box and guide! hahaha!

Jack

I'm so desperate for a new box and a new interface i just might pay a lil extra...HAHA!!!!!!

Don't give them any bright ideas....not even in jest!

Nope ben no waiting list as of yet... but based on what a supervisor had told the time warner rep behind the scenes ....was that at the moment time warner central ny is not sure how they are distributing them yet. But by all accounts i think a waiting list should be coming into fruition soon....if they are indeed releasing it on or around may 15th. I would think maybe some info will be in all of our bills on or around the 19th of april due to having paper billing a month ahead.

Jeff Unaitis said that all new installs would be getting them first, but they will be available through local offices. I plan on requesting one. The got me a specific model before from the Rome office when I requested it.

Biggest problem I've heard reported in our division for the 8640 so far is the HDMI bug. Other than that, the performance is enhanced greatly over the 8300 (as far as speed).

Jeff Unaitis said that all new installs would be getting them first, but they will be available through local offices. I plan on requesting one. The got me a specific model before from the Rome office when I requested it.

Biggest problem I've heard reported in our division for the 8640 so far is the HDMI bug. Other than that, the performance is enhanced greatly over the 8300 (as far as speed).

The fast forward speeds on the 8640 seem more crisp and percise. Just seems faster to me. Also on the 8640 when I am looking for future shows 6 to 7 days out I no longer get the data not available message just good show information. The 8640 is much much faster than the 8240hdc and the 8300hdc Also the jump back feature is much better and their is much less program overshoot . It seems when fast forwarding and pressing stop it stops on a dime and has a percise jump back. I now have a 8300hd with MDN in our bedroom and a 8600HDC with ODN in the den. I can compare updates to both as they come. Best of both worlds. The 8640HDC rocks with Navigator. WOODY.

And than of course we have Riverside Guy with his very OWN MDN build that no one else has! MDN 2.4.6_21. But there aren't any noticeable differences between the mainstream build of MDN 2.4.6_19 and from what Riverside has said, for his MDN 2.4.6_21 version.

I don't know what the latest version of ODN Navigator is.

Jack

Well, it's more my head end (Man North) than me. A few AVSers who live in this head end ended up getting ODN boxes. For what it is, it's actually pretty stable.

I had posted that a few weeks ago, my glitching seemed to be FAR less. Seen it before, usually within 2 weeks it would be back. BUT it seems to be lasting a lot longer now. So I checked signal levels... hmmm, maybe that's the issue. They are now about -5 dbVm BETTER than what they had been, running 0, -1, -2. Sure seems something outside my apartment was replaced...

OPh, FWIW, my last boot was a slipstream update I got last November.

I now have a 8300hd with MDN in our bedroom and a 8600HDC with ODN in the den. I can compare updates to both as they come. Best of both worlds. The 8640HDC rocks with Navigator. WOODY.

EXACTLY what I want to hear, the 8640HDC vs. 8300HD. I do NOT want a 8300HDC, and the 3090 seems to be kind of problematic (compared to my MDN box).

So without dealing with the different HDD sizes, I'm curious for you to compare the two... after you've lived with them for a while. AND I also wonder about the TWC division... how close are NYC and the rest of the state?

Jeff Unaitis said that all new installs would be getting them first, but they will be available through local offices. I plan on requesting one. The got me a specific model before from the Rome office when I requested it.

Biggest problem I've heard reported in our division for the 8640 so far is the HDMI bug. Other than that, the performance is enhanced greatly over the 8300 (as far as speed).

The HDMI bug - is that reverting to 480i when it resyncs with an HDMI device on the other side (like when it is turned on/off)? The workaround for that (at least on start up) is to have an SD channel as your start up channel. I have not noticed the issue since I've done that.

The fast forward speeds on the 8640 seem more crisp and percise. Just seems faster to me. Also on the 8640 when I am looking for future shows 6 to 7 days out I no longer get the data not available message just good show information. The 8640 is much much faster than the 8240hdc and the 8300hdc Also the jump back feature is much better and their is much less program overshoot . It seems when fast forwarding and pressing stop it stops on a dime and has a percise jump back. I now have a 8300hd with MDN in our bedroom and a 8600HDC with ODN in the den. I can compare updates to both as they come. Best of both worlds. The 8640HDC rocks with Navigator. WOODY.

I agree, 8640 is much more responsive and precise, so you can accomplish commercial skipping faster and better. It felt as though fast forwarding is done at a faster speed than 8300, but actually it is not - I measured, and both 8640 and 8300 fast forwarded through a 30 minutes show in about 1 minute (on highest speed). It is trickier to measure more real-life situation of skipping a set of commercials, and there 8640 feels snappier, just lighter on its feet, not something that takes a little while to get going like 8300.

The HDMI bug - is that reverting to 480i when it resyncs with an HDMI device on the other side (like when it is turned on/off)? The workaround for that (at least on start up) is to have an SD channel as your start up channel. I have not noticed the issue since I've done that.

Exactly.

Jeff Unaitis said that all new installs would be getting them first, but they will be available through local offices. I plan on requesting one. The got me a specific model before from the Rome office when I requested it.

Biggest problem I've heard reported in our division for the 8640 so far is the HDMI bug. Other than that, the performance is enhanced greatly over the 8300 (as far as speed).

Is this bug ONLY when hooked up to another HDMI device? If it's just the box and the HDMI cable, than no bug, right?

Does the big still happen if you set your screen resolution in Settings to 1080 or the highest your TV will only accept?

Jack

The HDMI bug - is that reverting to 480i when it resyncs with an HDMI device on the other side (like when it is turned on/off)? The workaround for that (at least on start up) is to have an SD channel as your start up channel. I have not noticed the issue since I've done that.

I have mine set up with SD Nickelodean channel for my kid and it still reverts to 480i everytime the TV or cable box powers off (also does it anytime the TV's input is changed to watch a Blu-Ray or play Wii). Very annoying. I will say that the last couple of days I haven't noticed the Dolby Digital being reverted back to HDMI and I haven't had all the outputs defaulted when I had set to output only 108i.

Is this bug ONLY when hooked up to another HDMI device? If it's just the box and the HDMI cable, than no bug, right?

Does the big still happen if you set your screen resolution in Settings to 1080 or the highest your TV will only accept?

Jack

No, I am HDMI from cable box to TV then optical to receiver and still have the bug. I also have my box to output only 1080i and it still reverts to 480i until channel change.

Also when I first got my 8640HDC I thought it was super fast too but now that I have filled it to about 50%-60% I realize that it was just fast because the HDD was empty. It gets significantly slower as it fills up. I notice now that it doesn't seem any faster than my 8300 when doing series recording changes.

Another bug they'll fix in Navigator is the ability to record sporting events as a series.

Another bug they'll fix in Navigator is the ability to record sporting events as a series.How exactly is that a bug? It's not easy to provide an ability to record all the games of your favorite team. You can do it with a TiVo Wishlist but very few platforms give you that sort of capability.

How exactly is that a bug? It's not easy to provide an ability to record all the games of your favorite team. You can do it with a TiVo Wishlist but very few platforms give you that sort of capability.

Addition of a Navigator keyword search feature maybe? WOODY

In a TiVo Wishlist I can specify "Padres" as a keyword and "HD: Sports: Baseball" or "HD: Sports: Sports Event" as a category (the latter will hit only games and not specials and documentaries, etc, but it would also hit Lacrosse games for which "Padres" was a keyword :D). Of course, I could leave out the "HD" in the category and get everything, high-def or not.

What you need is the ability to search for a team name within a category or genre. I think that you could search for your team's name in Passport and create a recording request based on that, or one which would record every program having to do with your team's sport, but not both.

What they should really do is have categories like "MLB Team" with subcategories of all MLB team names and "NCAA Basketball" with subcategories of all of those teams, etc.

I have mine set up with SD Nickelodean channel for my kid and it still reverts to 480i everytime the TV or cable box powers off (also does it anytime the TV's input is changed to watch a Blu-Ray or play Wii). Very annoying. I will say that the last couple of days I haven't noticed the Dolby Digital being reverted back to HDMI and I haven't had all the outputs defaulted when I had set to output only 108i.

Yes, it does revert when you do that; I haven't noticed as I typically turn TV and receiver on at the same time as DVR, and do not change TV inputs until I am done watching the DVR and I turn it off.
The other day it was more problematic - I had both tuners recording an HD show, so when the DVR was turned on, it was on 480i showing an HD show. I could not switch the channel without interrupting the recordings, and I had no SD recordings to switch to. I had to go to the Output Resolutions menu and turn 720p off and then on again for it to start working again.

Also when I first got my 8640HDC I thought it was super fast too but now that I have filled it to about 50%-60% I realize that it was just fast because the HDD was empty. It gets significantly slower as it fills up. I notice now that it doesn't seem any faster than my 8300 when doing series recording changes.

Mine was much faster when doing series recording setup, but I did most of it with the hard drive almost empty. It is about 30% now, I'll see when it gets more stuff in if it slows down.

Yes, it does revert when you do that; I haven't noticed as I typically turn TV and receiver on at the same time as DVR, and do not change TV inputs until I am done watching the DVR and I turn it off.
The other day it was more problematic - I had both tuners recording an HD show, so when the DVR was turned on, it was on 480i showing an HD show. I could not switch the channel without interrupting the recordings, and I had no SD recordings to switch to. I had to go to the Output Resolutions menu and turn 720p off and then on again for it to start working again.

This sounds somewhat reminiscent of the Samsung 720p bug, where it would always revert to 720p output regardless of the menu settings or the program source resolution... the only (temporary) way out of that was disable everything except 480i, then reenable the other resolutions. The latest updates to ODN 3.2.x and Samsung 4.3.5.x finally resolved that issue. At least the Sammie got stuck on an HD resolution!:p Seriously... it's really difficult to justify that such obvious bugs make it out to the customer and then take so long to correct... The 3090s were getting stuck on 720p from first issue last April until the latest updates we got here in February.

...
Seriously... it's really difficult to justify that such obvious bugs make it out to the customer and then take so long to correct...

Especially since they now give out only HDMI cable (at least in my case).

Addition of a Navigator keyword search feature maybe? WOODY

Hopefully,

That will be included as part of the Guide Filtering Update feature, which will probably be in the next couple of updates. The Keyboard is supposed to be expanded to include searches by description words. Guide filtering will allow customers to display the guide by showing content specific programing only when this feature is activated.

Jack

Hopefully,

That will be included as part of the Guide Filtering Update feature, which will probably be in the next couple of updates. The Keyboard is supposed to be expanded to include searches by description words. Guide filtering will allow customers to display the guide by showing content specific programing only when this feature is activated.

Jack

And let us not forget they ALSO need to "allow" one to retain such a search when it get no "hits." I used to be able to do this all the time... my choices typically were some musical groups, specific movies and specific directors.

Kerville is getting Navigator. Most of TWC's Texas markets used SARA except for Dallas. San Antonio and Austin should be getting it soon. I also think that San Antonio should be getting it as Kerrville isn't to far from SATX.

I have a source in TWC that on a rare occasion will give me a nugget of information. I hear folders will be comeing to Navigator in a not to distant future update. This will let you play all your NCIS or whatever shows in order or one by one and do mulitple deleations with a single folder. It sounds good to me if we ever get them. WOODY

I can only see Navigator getting better from here on out.

Should it be taking this long?

No, but with the deployment of new hardware and added features it has the potential to become a quality piece of software (for a cable platform). I don't think it will get to a Moxi or Tivo point, but it should suffice until legitimate 3rd party two way devices come about (if they ever do!)

We have some new features for Video On Demand:

Whole House Control: press a button to buy and get 1 charge for all movies and events on all boxes in the home, OR press another button to just purchase for one box.

Start Over has been expanded to about 40 channels. They want to get up to 60 soon.

Look Back is being tested in our market.

Jack

Whole House Control: press a button to buy and get 1 charge for all movies and events on all boxes in the home, OR press another button to just purchase for one box.

Jack

They are charging extra for the same PPV on other boxes or is it just an option from your remote now? Here you have to call in to have each box authorized for one order and they will send it to all your boxes for the same price.

I got a letter in the mail yesterday here in Austin saying in the next few weeks navigator will be rolled out. So those of us in Austin it's comig soon.

I have a source in TWC that on a rare occasion will give me a nugget of information. I hear folders will be comeing to Navigator in a not to distant future update. This will let you play all your NCIS or whatever shows in order or one by one and do mulitple deleations with a single folder. It sounds good to me if we ever get them. WOODY

Gotta say for the huge percentage of us with 160G drives, this is useless. There are times when I see only 2 one hour shows waiting to view and both carry designations they will be deleted in XX hours to accommodate new recordings. There are MANY other things we USED to have that really need to come first.

Not to mention that of all those on ODN, they can't even expand storage.

Gotta say for the huge percentage of us with 160G drives, this is useless. There are times when I see only 2 one hour shows waiting to view and both carry designations they will be deleted in XX hours to accommodate new recordings. There are MANY other things we USED to have that really need to come first.

Not to mention that of all those on ODN, they can't even expand storage.

Time Warner is giveing out Cisco 8640hdc boxes here with 320G hard drives. Try to get one of those they are SWEET!

Time Warner is giveing out Cisco 8640hdc boxes here with 320G hard drives. Try to get one of those they are SWEET!

From what I've seen here... I'd keep my Samsung 3090 over the 8640... it took a year for them to get the major bugs worked out, but the current versions loaded on ours here are pretty solid. Probably will take them just as long to work through the HDMI issues on the 8640. At least the 3090 doesn't revert to SD and the selected audio mode STAYS selected.;) IF they get the kinks worked out, though, the 8640 seems like a nice box.

They are charging extra for the same PPV on other boxes or is it just an option from your remote now? Here you have to call in to have each box authorized for one order and they will send it to all your boxes for the same price.

I haven't used it yet, but friends say that under the multi-box system, it's only one charge for every box in the home:

You press the "A" button to put the program on all boxes in your home for one price. OR

You press the "B" button to just order the program on the current box you are using. Here is more information about it:

http://www.timewarnercable.com/Wisconsin/learn/cable/ondemand/wholehouse.html

The last part of the page has tips on using it. I don't know if we in Wisconsin are a test market for this feature, but it sounds cool!

Jack

I haven't used it yet, but friends say that under the multi-box system, it's only one charge for every box in the home:

You press the "A" button to put the program on all boxes in your home for one price. OR

You press the "B" button to just order the program on the current box you are using. Here is more information about it:

http://www.timewarnercable.com/Wisconsin/learn/cable/ondemand/wholehouse.html

The last part of the page has tips on using it. I don't know if we in Wisconsin are a test market for this feature, but it sounds cool!

Jack

We have that new feature in Greensboro also. Being Able to watch a purchased movie on all boxes is kinda neat. WOODY

We have some new features for Video On Demand:

Whole House Control: press a button to buy and get 1 charge for all movies and events on all boxes in the home, OR press another button to just purchase for one box.

Start Over has been expanded to about 40 channels. They want to get up to 60 soon.

Look Back is being tested in our market.

Jack

Desert Cities which is run by TWC San Diego, just recently deployed Start Over while San Diego has had it for a while.

I think we are finally starting to see a recent commitment to TWC-Navigator in terms of features and updates. If the majority of "Gatored" divisions are doing this like the way they have recently been adding HD channels. (We have over 100 now,) I think that Navigator will get to be just as good, if not better than Passport. I agree that TIVO will probably always lead the pack, but I think that the planned updates for Navigator scheduled throughout this year will make the guide better than Passport. Eventually it will get to that point.

Jack

From what I've seen here... I'd keep my Samsung 3090 over the 8640... it took a year for them to get the major bugs worked out, but the current versions loaded on ours here are pretty solid. Probably will take them just as long to work through the HDMI issues on the 8640. At least the 3090 doesn't revert to SD and the selected audio mode STAYS selected.;) IF they get the kinks worked out, though, the 8640 seems like a nice box.

For me the audio mode stays selected. Video does revert to SD when it has to redo the handshake, but I almost never change TV inputs or turn TV off while watching DVR, so setting Power On Channel to an SD channel solves the video issue (unless both tuners are recording when you turn it, on, then a painful going through menus is required). For me at least, that's less trouble than resetting audio every time I turn the box on that I had to do with 83000HDC. Don't know if Samsung is still buggy, but at least the stretched menus I know I would not like.

For me the audio mode stays selected. Video does revert to SD when it has to redo the handshake, but I almost never change TV inputs or turn TV off while watching DVR, so setting Power On Channel to an SD channel solves the video issue (unless both tuners are recording when you turn it, on, then a painful going through menus is required). For me at least, that's less trouble than resetting audio every time I turn the box on that I had to do with 83000HDC. Don't know if Samsung is still buggy, but at least the stretched menus I know I would not like.

MY audio and video work fine on my 8640HDC. It is brand new right out of the box. WOODY

From what I've seen here... I'd keep my Samsung 3090 over the 8640... it took a year for them to get the major bugs worked out, but the current versions loaded on ours here are pretty solid. Probably will take them just as long to work through the HDMI issues on the 8640. At least the 3090 doesn't revert to SD and the selected audio mode STAYS selected.;) IF they get the kinks worked out, though, the 8640 seems like a nice box.

You mean now that they have apparently worked out the FF stuff that was making you crazy<g>!

3090s have been out a lot longer, so there are many iussues that folks have brought up. The 8640, not so much because it seems to be kinda limited right now.

I think a big part of the issue is the ODN combo with the 3090 or the 8640.

Oh, remember the Survivor's series recording issue I posted about? It got weirder because I noticed in the log that all shows had a "not recorded because the user canceled" type of message. Well, I NEVER canceled any of the scheduled shows and I HAVE seen them all. Yet there was NO "deleted" messages in the log.

However, it has worked exactly as it should for the past 2-3 weeks... no problems now. Odd.

I think we are finally starting to see a recent commitment to TWC-Navigator in terms of features and updates. If the majority of "Gatored" divisions are doing this like the way they have recently been adding HD channels. (We have over 100 now,) I think that Navigator will get to be just as good, if not better than Passport. I agree that TIVO will probably always lead the pack, but I think that the planned updates for Navigator scheduled throughout this year will make the guide better than Passport. Eventually it will get to that point.

Jack

You should change your nick to "Optimism Man!" And me to "Skeptical_Guy."

FF still doesn't work as well for me on the 3090 as it did on the 8300HDC. And knock wood, no missed recordings recently.

You mean now that they have apparently worked out the FF stuff that was making you crazy<g>!

3090s have been out a lot longer, so there are many iussues that folks have brought up. The 8640, not so much because it seems to be kinda limited right now.

I think a big part of the issue is the ODN combo with the 3090 or the 8640.

Oh, remember the Survivor's series recording issue I posted about? It got weirder because I noticed in the log that all shows had a "not recorded because the user canceled" type of message. Well, I NEVER canceled any of the scheduled shows and I HAVE seen them all. Yet there was NO "deleted" messages in the log.

However, it has worked exactly as it should for the past 2-3 weeks... no problems now. Odd.

The really bad FF issue was actually very short-lived... introduced in v4.3.5.0 and fixed in v4.3.5.3 a few weeks later - an amazing turnaround time but indicative of just how bad 4.3.5.0 was. FF now works better than it ever has, but is still not nearly as smooth or consistent as any of the SA/Cisco boxes. Although it sounds like a small thing, the FF/REW function is a big part of the DVR "experience". For that reason, if the 8640's bugs can be worked out, it probably will be a more desirable box than the 3090.

I heard that the new MDN 2.5 has a DVR "Jump Back" control that has the following on it:

More
Less
Normal
Off

ODN will probably get this in the next update. It will be interesting to see how the different speeds react as adjusted. But for me, on my MDN box, I haven't really seen the need for an adjustment because the jump back works well once you get used to it.

I heard that ODN's jumpback timing is slightly different. When this feature comes out, I am sure that the forum will do a time comparison.

I heard that the new MDN 2.5 has a DVR "Jump Back" control that has the following on it:

More
Less
Normal
Off

ODN will probably get this in the next update. It will be interesting to see how the different speeds react as adjusted. But for me, on my MDN box, I haven't really seen the need for an adjustment because the jump back works well once you get used to it.

I heard that ODN's jumpback timing is slightly different. When this feature comes out, I am sure that the forum will do a time comparison.

For me, the jumpback on the 8300HDC was just about perfect... virtually always hit the "black kiss" between the commercial or the show... maybe 1 or 2 seconds of the commercial at most. Outside of the crazy jumpback on 4.3.5.0 (sometimes jumping two commercials back), the 3090 definitely jumps back further than the HDC... I have to force myself not to hit play too soon or I end up 10 seconds or more back into the commercial... but it is fairly consistent and you can adapt... its just not as "natural" as the HDC's.

The bigger problem with the 3090 FF is that its "slide show" display during the FF operation really gives no sense of how fast you are moving... 1x, 2x and 3x all look and feel the same... the display rate of the frames is nearly the same for all, but the span between samples is increased as you go. The frame advance rate is also inconsistent, sometimes it's about a half second between frames... sometimes it's a full 2-3 seconds... and it can vary within the same FF operation. It has gotten better with 4.3.5.3 than it ever has been before, but it's still not very good. At least it's usable now... those few weeks I had with 4.3.5.0 made me pretty much give up on FF'ing through commercials.

For me, the jumpback on the 8300HDC was just about perfect... virtually always hit the "black kiss" between the commercial or the show... maybe 1 or 2 seconds of the commercial at most. Outside of the crazy jumpback on 4.3.5.0 (sometimes jumping two commercials back), the 3090 definitely jumps back further than the HDC... I have to force myself not to hit play too soon or I end up 10 seconds or more back into the commercial... but it is fairly consistent and you can adapt... its just not as "natural" as the HDC's.

The bigger problem with the 3090 FF is that its "slide show" display during the FF operation really gives no sense of how fast you are moving... 1x, 2x and 3x all look and feel the same... the display rate of the frames is nearly the same for all, but the span between samples is increased as you go. The frame advance rate is also inconsistent, sometimes it's about a half second between frames... sometimes it's a full 2-3 seconds... and it can vary within the same FF operation. It has gotten better with 4.3.5.3 than it ever has been before, but it's still not very good. At least it's usable now... those few weeks I had with 4.3.5.0 made me pretty much give up on FF'ing through commercials.

Then I don't see why would you want Samsung over 8640HC. The only bug that I've noticed in 8640 is switching to 480i when doing initial HDMI handshake (when the DVR or TV is turned on, or when input on TV is changed). If you don't change inputs on TV frequently while watching DVR, and you set Power On Channel to an SD channel, you will rarely hit the bug - only if both tuners are busy recording HD when you turn it on, and even then a trip through the menus fixes it (until next time you turn it on). I'd much rather have an issue of the type: "When I turn the DVR on, in the worst case I hit a few buttons and then I have no issue until I am done watching the DVR" then the type "every time I use a very common and frequent function, it does it rather clumsily". AFAIK, FF thing in Samsung has no temporary fixes, and neither do the stretched menus.