Xbox 360 as HD DVD Player: One and Only thread Here [Text View] - Page 12

BuGsArEtAsTy

11-16-06, 10:04 PM

Somebody has reported the same TrueHD audio sync issue Xbox.com. (http://forums.xbox.com/8181232/ShowPost.aspx)
(I also started a thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=751752) on it in the AVS Xbox forum.)

--

I confirmed it is indeed the audio lagging later, in the scene where he knocks on the door. The sound comes after the knock, not at the same time.

--

Yes, we're aware of that, but nonetheless we can still select the track. Now why would we do that? Because it seems the mix, or at least the audio levels, is different. Is it better? I dunno, but it's different, and somebody might prefer the TrueHD transcoding.

However, it looks now like for many of us, TrueHD on the Xbox 360 is unusable. We'll stick to Dolby Digital Plus. Note that while there is not a significant sync issue from what I've seen with DD+, I still wonder if there may be a very slight sync issue there. It may not be big enough for most of us to hear consistently, but I wondered about that even before I tried the TrueHD track.

Any comments Amir?
The lag IS definitely there with Dolby Digital Plus tracks too. It's very mild, and I suspect most people wouldn't notice it, but it's real. I see/hear it on Batman Begins DD+, King Kong DD+, and Pitch Black DD+ tracks. I have to pay very close attention to see it, but I'm now 100% convinced that it's there.

It might just be 50 ms or something (just guessing) but I always see it now. I wonder if one reason many people may not see it is because they're not using older CRTs which have minimal video delays.

Ie. "Modern" LCD with 50 ms video delay with Xbox 360 HD DVD audio delay = no visible lag.

However, "Old school" CRT with minimal video delay but Xbox 360 HD DVD audio delay = audible audio lag.

Just throwing out an idea...

FrankJ.Cone

11-16-06, 10:19 PM

I'm watching a 57" CRT RPT through component and it looks great. But I'm wondering if the upconverting of SD DVD is worth the $39.99 price tag for the VGA cable. Will I get that much of an improvement?

It depends on your display. I have a Sanyo Z3 and its scaler is terrible. I bought the VGA due to this and it looks much better than letting the Z3 scale DVD's.

AuroraProject

11-16-06, 10:29 PM

What other discs with TrueHD do you have? Batman Begins is the only one I have with TrueHD, and that TrueHD track is where I really notice the lip sync issue.

Is it because the Xbox 360 can't keep up with the decode/encode for audio? Maybe I'm out to lunch, buy it seems to me that the audio is lagging, not the video.

If that's the case, as I understand it that would be the opposite of lip sync issues on other machines. I was under the impression that lip sync problems were usually related to internal image processing in TVs being too slow, so that the video lagged behind the audio. To correct this all you'd need is a delay circuit for the audio.

If indeed the audio is already lagging behind the video with the Xbox 360, then there's nothing you can really do about, unless Microsoft were to add a patch to delay the video (or reduce the audio lag).

Mind you I'm not 100% percent sure yet that it is the audio that is lagging. All I can say for sure in the brief testing I've done, is that the audio sync is somehow off with TrueHD.

Why do I care? It seems the mix with TrueHD when reencoded to DD sounds different than the DD+ reencoded to DD. Not sure if it's better, but it's definitely different and I'd like to compare the two. However, with the audio lag with TrueHD, it's too distracting to watch.

I have The Phantom of the Opera, which is also in True HD. No sync issues at all, I have no idea why it's happening on Batman Begins only.

Behrens77

11-16-06, 10:51 PM

I just got my HD DVD drive on Monday afternoon from Robert at VE and I would have to say I'm very satisfied. The quality is very crisp and the colors are almost vibrant. My only problem so far is that the 360 fan itself is so darn loud. Sometimes I don't have movies at loud volume if my son is in bed and you can hear the low spinning sound of the fan. It doesn't bother me too much but it's a little annoying. If there was something to fix that I would be very happy. I have closed the door to my video cabinet which makes it quieter but when you get close you can hear the fan working harder due to lack of air flow. Any suggestions?

HD DVDs I've purchased: King Kong, Batman Begins, Charlie & the Chocolate Factory, Constantine, and Polar Express.

BuGsArEtAsTy

11-16-06, 11:01 PM

I have The Phantom of the Opera, which is also in True HD. No sync issues at all, I have no idea why it's happening on Batman Begins only.
I wonder what the audio and video bitrates are.

water1

11-16-06, 11:20 PM

Has any one used an IR Repeater with their XBOX 360 and wireless controllers? I was planning on putting the XBOX 360 in the equipment closet with the rest of the AV Equipment.

I was hoping to hear of success stories. I will be buy the XBOX 360 next week.
My IR repeater works fine with the remote. Mine is behind me but not in a cabinet but I wouldn'g anticipate a problem with the controller. I tried the controller from the next room and it worked fine.

Scott KL

11-16-06, 11:58 PM

kohi

11-17-06, 12:01 AM

Does anyone know a good way to calibrate with the hd-dvd player. None of the movies I've tried have any type of calibration. The THX calibration patterns were great on old Dvd's, does anyone know of anything similar for the hd-dvd. Thanks.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000IHYY3Y/002-2578336-6011238

:cool:

AuroraProject

11-17-06, 12:04 AM

maverick0716

11-17-06, 01:34 AM

Ymmv, but I plunked down the cash for the VGA cable and I'm not impressed at all. On my display (Sony KDF-E50A10) the VGA gave me washed out colors and soft edges. Mine is headed for eBay shortly!

The VGA input on the Sony A10 TV's really sucks, because they have VERY limited picture tweaking options. It was definitly designed soley for a PC input.

DVDoctor

11-17-06, 02:23 AM

It would be interesting to see how quickly Amir can get the Xbox developers to add better controls for the vga output. Cannot believe they will just leave it with this problem

John

Arya Stark

11-17-06, 07:41 AM

just had my first issue with freezing. it was with the movie Accepted. in the middle of the film it would just freeze and I had to try and fast forward a little and then it played for a few seconds before another freeze. restarted the console and then it was fixed. has anyone else had this movie freeze on them. I have watched batman begins, the searchers, and corpse bride with no problems.

t_tringle

11-17-06, 08:06 AM

Batman Begins + TrueHD track = noticeable loss of audio sync.

Damn. :(

Try clearing your XBOX HD Cache ( look through this thread for the command) , I have BB and I have absolutely no dropped audiio or video stuttering in that movie at all, and the TrueHD Soundtrack even dornrezzed to 640KB sounds awesome.

TimT

t_tringle

11-17-06, 08:11 AM

May I ask, withouth HDMI or analog out, how are you getting TrueHD from the 360-HD ? That does not compute from my understand.

May this be the reason for your lip-sync issue ?

You guys have to start reading before posting. There have been many posts asked and answered about TrueHD and Dolby Digital +. While the XBOX 360 doesn't output the full uncompressed stream, it does downrez it to 640KB Dolby Digital.

I for one have had 0 problems with lipsynching with Batman Begins at TrueHD, but I'll double check tonight to confirm this.

You guys may have to clear your Hard Drive Cache on the XBOX360, check this thread for the exact button combo and procedure.

TimT

t_tringle

11-17-06, 08:16 AM

But coverting via Dolby Digital is not True HD audio. The bitrate is reduced to allow for what the connection being used. Hence in my eyes some of the synch issues encountered.

The Toslink connection is not sufficient to carry such data. So it is not trueHD.

Because it's a lower bitrate, thats why you believe your getting lipsynch problems?

Please explain your reasoning. As for it not being TrueHD, it may not be TrueHD at the same bitrate as over HDMI, but it is still playing that soundtrack and I can confirm that it is superior over the Dolby Digital + track on Batman Begins.

I can also confirm that Dolby Digital +, while not as punchy with Bass, is clearer and has a superior soundfield overall when compared to the Dolby Digital 5.1 soundtrack on the original Batman Begins SD-DVD.

As far as I understand, anybody who is not using HDMI or analog to transport their audio to their receiver is getting the same type of downrezzing of the audio. In some cases it's downrezzed to a DTS Stream, in others a Dolby Digital.

So yes your right, for $200.00 you got amazing picture and sound, but just not as good as that $500+ player, or that $1000.00+ player. You should take it back immediately and DEMAND your money back.

TimT

BuGsArEtAsTy

11-17-06, 09:22 AM

Try clearing your XBOX HD Cache ( look through this thread for the command) , I have BB and I have absolutely no dropped audiio or video stuttering in that movie at all, and the TrueHD Soundtrack even dornrezzed to 640KB sounds awesome.

TimT
I cleared my HD cache before I even installed the drive. Also, I've had no audio or video stuttering in movies at all. Menus of certain titles seem a little slow, but actual movie playback is very smooth. However, while audio does not stutter, it lags. DD+ is an almost unnoticeable lag (but while it's slight, it's there). TrueHD on Batman Begins is most definitely laggy though, and I think anyone would be able to notice it.

Nonetheless I will try the HD cache purge thing again tonite. Thanks for the reminder - it can't hurt to try.

P.S. What TV do you have? Some TVs introduce video lag of their own. If a TV has a slight lag, then any audio lag would be much harder to notice.

Because it's a lower bitrate, thats why you believe your getting lipsynch problems?
Nah. The theory that was put forward was that there was lag converting DD+ to DD, and even more lag converting TrueHD to DD. It's just a theory though, and one that may not make sense, considering that decoding of 16 Mbps 1080p24 VC-1 is probably a lot harder than transcoding 3 Mbps TrueHD I'm guessing.

just had my first issue with freezing. it was with the movie Accepted. in the middle of the film it would just freeze and I had to try and fast forward a little and then it played for a few seconds before another freeze. restarted the console and then it was fixed. has anyone else had this movie freeze on them. I have watched batman begins, the searchers, and corpse bride with no problems.
Clean the disc, and if that doesn't work, get the disc replaced.

eps3

11-17-06, 10:14 AM

likev

11-17-06, 10:18 AM

audio sync problems with xbox 360 hd-dvd add-on

I noticed significant lip sync problems with "grand Prix" hd-dvd. To my eyes and ears the voices are delayed compared to video. It was so noticeable to me that i thought i was watching a dubbed foreign film. I can understand, however, how many would overlook it if they were not paying close attention. According to review of this hd-dvd at high-def digest website this movie has "dolby digital plus" soundtrack only. Their review makes no mention of audiosync problems, which makes me suspect that the 360 add-on is the culprit. Unfortunately, I do not possess a stand alone hd-dvd player to do a/b comparison. FWIW i am using official xbox 360 hd/av cable with optical into a yamaha receiver. sony 32" xbr1 lcd.

Someone posted this a few days ago and I think it helped w/ the problem you are describing,

8.1 How do I clear the Xbox 360's cache? - NEW
If you find games loading slower, it may be caused by cache fragementation. Some games (such as Oblivion) provide the ability to clear the cache when starting up the game. For those that don't you can use the method below, brought to AV Forums by mjpartyboy. Note that this method removes all software updates and cache files for all games, not just a specific title.

Go to the "System" section of the Xbox Dashboard
Select "Memory", and then press the A
Choose a the HDD or a memory unit but do not press A - press Y to view "Device Options" which shows two options, "Rename" and "Format".
Press X, X, LB, RB, X, X.
Once you do this a blade will pop up saying: "This will perform maintenance on your Xbox 360 storage devices. Do you want to continue?"
Choose yes to clear the cache and update files, or choose no to cancel

Nox

11-17-06, 12:54 PM

People with lip sync problems, try playing the movies with just stereo (red and white RCA) to see if the lip sync problem still exists.

And as BuGsArEtAsTy mentions, post what TV type you're running. If the newer sets have a video processing delay, the 360 may be geared towards matching it. The older CRT sets may be the only one with the lipsync problem.

Hopefully we can center on where the problem lies and who's going to be effected.

pcaulfie

11-17-06, 02:55 PM

I did notice a slight delay. I adjusted the delay setting on my receiver, now it's synchronized perfectly.

Deezul

11-17-06, 03:43 PM

I had to make a full confession :)

She wasn't upset. She actually thought it was a smart thing to do because had I waited until Christmas day to test it out, it would have been well past the return period at Circuit City and I would have had to ship it to Microsoft and wait 2-3 weeks to get a new one back.

Check your receipt. Starting in November, most stores have "extended return periods" where they will take stuff back up to December 31 or January 1, because of Christmas. I noticed it on a Best Buy receipt and Gamestop receipt.

But don't let you wife know that now! :D

Deezul

HDKing

11-17-06, 05:55 PM

Did anyone have trouble getting Best Buy to match the $40 coupon from CC? The lady at checkout said that she couldn't do it.

BuGsArEtAsTy

11-17-06, 07:23 PM

I did notice a slight delay. I adjusted the delay setting on my receiver, now it's synchronized perfectly.
What was your previous delay setting, and what was your new delay setting?

Most of us seem to be having audio lag, which means that if you add a delay to the audio with your receiver, the problem would get worse.

Which TV do you have?

Billbofet

11-17-06, 07:45 PM

Here's a noobie question regarding the audio on the HD-DVD drive.
I have noticed that I really have to crank the audio up on my receiver to get it to where my normal listening volume is for standard dvd's. Also, when I turn it up, it is LOUD if I go back to playing a 360 game.

Is there any way to adjust the volume or output for the HD drive?
Normal listening for DVD's on my receiver is 12-15
Normal listenign for Xbox360 games is 10-12
On the HD DVD drive, I'm putting it up to 18-20.

At this volume, the sound quality, at least for me, is excellent, but it's just a little annoying to be adjusting the volume before going back in to the dashboard.

Thanks in advance.
Bill

NV5655

11-17-06, 07:45 PM

For this price, I may have to buy it, but a question..

The HDDVD and Blue Ray t est from Cyberlink shows my AMD Athalon 64 3500+ May be a bit too slow to read it. Has anyone tried this drive with that chip?

Also, I have a creative Xi-Fi card with a 5.1 THX certified system hooked up to it. Will I be g etting full sound quality out of all 5 speakers with this drive hooked up with just the USB cable?

Thanks :)

t_tringle

11-17-06, 08:25 PM

I cleared my HD cache before I even installed the drive. Also, I've had no audio or video stuttering in movies at all. Menus of certain titles seem a little slow, but actual movie playback is very smooth. However, while audio does not stutter, it lags. DD+ is an almost unnoticeable lag (but while it's slight, it's there). TrueHD on Batman Begins is most definitely laggy though, and I think anyone would be able to notice it.

Nonetheless I will try the HD cache purge thing again tonite. Thanks for the reminder - it can't hurt to try.

P.S. What TV do you have? Some TVs introduce video lag of their own. If a TV has a slight lag, then any audio lag would be much harder to notice.

Bugs,

I have a Toshiba 50' Rear Projection CRT. I can't remember the model right off the top of my head, but I researched it quite a bit before comitting. It's the best I could afford and purchased it during last years Black Friday sale online via Best Buy. Usually I wouldn't buy a TV through them, but it was a great deal and had free delivery online, plus I wasn't going to be getting my hands on my 360 for at least 6 months due to shortages.

I am usually very, very good at detecting any lip synch issues. I generally get very distracted by them no matter how minute they are. I'm just that way about audio and video quality. Probably the reason I have the HD-DVD Addon.

So far I haven't noticed any audio lag at all, and I would hate to notice it now no matter how minute it is because it would be maddening to not be able to fix it.

I'll check it tonight and confirm if there is an issue with lip synch. BTW I use component video cables with the XBOX360, along with TosLink of course for the audio into a fairly recent Sony Receiver. I'll get the exact models later if it helps people determine if this is a real problem. I'd hate for it to be true, I really hope the HD-DVD Addon is well received and works well for most people.

I really would hate for Blue Ray be the one thing Sony wins a format war over.

TimT

eps3

11-17-06, 11:06 PM

lotrhpsw

11-17-06, 11:35 PM

I'm having audio lag issues as well (about 1/4 sec. behind visual), but it seems to be regardless of whether I select TrueHD or Dobly 5.1. It also occurs regardless of whether I'm using the digital optical connection or the normal red/white composite audio cables, or whether I use composite video or component. I called 1-800-4MY-XBOX, but they hadn't heard of the issue.

I found the most painfully obvious way to detect the lag is to watch one of these scenes from Batman Begins: 1) the third to last chapter where Bruce is hammering the nail (you'll hear the delayed bang as he's lifting the hammer), or 2) the very begining of the credits where the words "BATMAN BEGINS" pop up. (The music is supposed to start at the exact moment the words appear, not right after.)

These became all the more apparent when I compared the Batman Begins non-lagging DVD to the HD-DVD. Grrr....

Oh, and I'm using a Sony KV-34HS420 (CRT) with a Samsung HT-P50 (HTiB).

lotrhpsw

11-17-06, 11:38 PM

Though it seems the lag issue does not persist if I just run the audio through the television as opposed to my home theater system.

BuGsArEtAsTy

11-18-06, 12:27 AM

Robert D

11-18-06, 12:37 AM

I tried purging the hard drive cache (http://forums.xbox.com/2925440/ShowPost.aspx) again. It did absolutely nothing to fix the audio lag.

If this is not corrected by January, I'll probably return the HD DVD drive. This lag is now officially driving me crazy. The more I watch, the more I notice it. And I think a lot of people might just do the same. After the initial OMG-THE-VIDEO-IS-SO-AWESOME, like me some people will start to notice the audio issues. And January is the time when a lot of the Xmas returns come in. I'd hate to see 25% of these drives being returned because of this.

P.S. I wonder if it would be "easier" to minimize the lag if the audio were transcoded to DTS, as Amir had suggested as a possibility (not for the the lag reason, but just for the sake of having the DTS option).

Most of the newer A/V receivers have a built in delay that is adjustable to allow for audio sync issues so maybe check that out.

BuGsArEtAsTy

11-18-06, 12:44 AM

Most of the newer A/V receivers have a built in delay that is adjustable to allow for audio sync issues so maybe check that out.
As I've mentioned before, that would actually make things worse.

The receivers add delay to audio to match the lag in video introduced by some TVs. For instance some DLP TVs have terrible video lag, so that when you watch a DVD or whatever, the sound comes a second before the video.

The opposite seems to be happening with the Xbox 360. Here the audio comes after the video (at least as far as I can tell), and using one of those receivers you are talking about would simply magnify the problem.

Trust me, If I thought an audio circuit delay box would fix the issue, I would have already have ordered one by now. There is nothing available to delay the video... unless you bought one of those laggy TVs. However, those suck at gaming for obvious reasons.

twak

11-18-06, 01:33 AM

Anyone else having trouble with their wireless adapter and hd-dvd drive. If I dock it and plug it in to the drive, sometimes it will not turn the wireless adapter on. Now I know this is not an isolated issue because this is my second hd-dvd drive ( I had to exchange my first one because of a problem with the eject button) and the same happened on it.

Obviously an easy work around is to dock the adapter back on the console and plug the drive into a front usb port but I still find this bothersome.

AuroraProject

11-18-06, 01:41 AM

BuGsArEtAsTy

11-18-06, 01:42 AM

bkilian

11-18-06, 02:30 AM

Though it seems the lag issue does not persist if I just run the audio through the television as opposed to my home theater system.
This is an interesting data point... Has anyone else with audio lag issues tried this? (not as a solution, but as data to help us work out what's causing it)

Hyper_Eye

11-18-06, 02:38 AM

BioSehnsucht

11-18-06, 04:44 AM

I didn't really notice any lag with either Tokyo Drift or Kong.. there might be a hint of lag, but very slight. If this were something playing back via XBMC I don't think it's audio +- delay function would have a fine enough granularity to 'correct' it. I have a Pioneer VSX-D812K, and am currently using a 19" Viewsonic CRT monitor (no video delay). What is everyone else using?

FilmMixer

11-18-06, 11:23 AM

I noticed this problem on "The Last Samurai" but not on "King Kong". I have not found any way to adjust it before the receiver.

The initial Warner Brothers titles (TLS, MDB, POTO, etc) were authored around 10-12 db lower than subsequent titles.. this has been well documented... it isn't a player issues.

knownzero

11-18-06, 05:26 PM

Well, I went out and got a 360 and HD-DVD drive today and I've had a chance to play with it a bit. Have it hooked up to a 52" LG DLP via the VGA cable and this thing looks fantastic. I haven't had a lot of time to use it because OSU is playing UM right now :D but the little I've played with it, it's awesome. More later after OSU wins... :D

Linux23

11-18-06, 05:32 PM

Got mine yesterday from Amazon and it looks really good. Great job Microsoft. I must say that King Kong is reference material on my Pearl.:D

doctor carta

11-18-06, 05:40 PM

JudgeSmails

11-18-06, 05:42 PM

twak

11-18-06, 05:43 PM

Been reading alot of problems that people are having with their hd-dvd drive trying to play movies at 1080p.I too am having problems...i can play "gears of war" at 1080p via Xbox 360™ Component HD AV Cables but cant play 1080p on the Xbox 360™ HD DVD Player?This site says you can view 1080p via Xbox 360™ VGA HD AV Cables on the hd-dvd player but microsoft says the vga cable supports up to 1080i.What exactly is going on?

Thanks

You will only get 1080i with component cables and hd-dvd movies. You will only get 480p with regular dvd's and component cables. You will get 1080p with VGA. Games you will get 1080p over component because there is no copy protection in games as there is in movies.

Here is a link which confirms what I speak:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/09/21/xbox-360-hd-dvd-playback-maximum-1080i-via-component-1080p-vga/

Hope you understand as well as all the others who are having trouble grasping this.

JasZ

11-18-06, 06:18 PM

Hey guys. I'm kind of a newb here. I just got the HD-DVD add-on and I'm running it on my HP LC3700N (Sharp) LCD TV over a Monster VGA w/DVI adapter with my output set to the 1366x768 native rez of the TV.

Since I use VGA, I've had to adjust my colors to avoid the wash out for games, but when I played the KK movie I kept getting weird "artifacting?" in the scenes in the beginning where the ship is in the mist just before getting to the island. Happened when there was a light source in the dark mist. Sorry I'm not savy enough yet to describe this any better. Anyway, I had to adjust all my color settings again (turning down the blue, cyan, and magenta colors and saturation) to get rid of this effect. Its weird because I've never seen it on upscaled DVDs or WMV-HD files, but I just may not have had the right scene. Has anyone else seen anything like this? I have to see how Gears of War looks with these new settings or maybe I'll switch to component.

BTW. I've just had my audio set to DD+ and I didn't have any issue with audio sync on KK.

isayx3

11-18-06, 06:20 PM

Picked up my HD-DVD drive thursday. I used it with my SP7200 projector @ 720p. Watched MI:3 last night, great picture and noticed no sound lag.

Picked up Van Helsing today and will compare it with the DVD on my Pany S77 upconversion (hooked up via HDMI).

Right now im using component, but should have 360 VGA cables soon to compare.

doctor carta

11-18-06, 07:26 PM

You will only get 1080i with component cables and hd-dvd movies. You will only get 480p with regular dvd's and component cables. You will get 1080p with VGA. Games you will get 1080p over component because there is no copy protection in games as there is in movies.

Here is a link which confirms what I speak:

Hope you understand as well as all the others who are having trouble grasping this.

but Microsoft says their cables are only capable up to 1080i?i dont quite understand...

Thanks for your help twak

twak

11-18-06, 07:29 PM

but Microsoft says their cables are only capable up to 1080i?i dont quite understand...

Thanks for your help twak

Show me a link please, cables will display anything they are told to display by the adjoining device.

whitenoise

11-18-06, 08:58 PM

Essentially both VGA/RGB and component use 3 video inputs. VGA uses RGB and component uses YPbPr. So, if your TV takes RGB over component you can take the VGA output from 360 - use a cheap vga to component adopter cable ... Thanks for the advice! I am going to pull the very heavy entertainment center back and check for these inputs tonight.

Jdog35

11-18-06, 10:23 PM

Hey all. I too have my new happy HD-DVD drive for my 360. I don' t have any questions that haven't already been asked. I don't have any observations that haven't already been stated. All I want to say is I really love my new toy, and thanks to everyone here, I didn't have any problems with settings, cables, etc. Plug it in, play the movies, enjoy my visual o-gsm:) Thanks for everyone on the previous 94 pages for your comments, y'all don't get enough credit for how much you help everyone here.

gotspeed6

11-18-06, 10:37 PM

what tv allow 1080p through component cables?

nataraj

11-18-06, 10:44 PM

Thanks for the advice! I am going to pull the very heavy entertainment center back and check for these inputs tonight.

I'm not so sure anymore. VGA normally converts to RGBHV - so, not sure how just RGB would work. May be something to check in the HDTV forum.

PDonthate

11-18-06, 10:54 PM

Show me a link please, cables will display anything they are told to display by the adjoining device.

This link says 1080i or 720p for MS HD Components

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360componenthdcable/

This one for VGA says 1080p gaming

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360vgahdcable/

twak

11-18-06, 11:12 PM

what tv allow 1080p through component cables?

Mine will thank you.

Frohlich

11-18-06, 11:14 PM

This link says 1080i or 720p for MS HD Components

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360componenthdcable/

This one for VGA says 1080p gaming

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360vgahdcable/

They only say 1080I because that is what XBOX 360 did until the recent update via Live. When the component cables came out a year ago that is what the XBOX could display (720P or 1080I) so that is what they advertised. Component cables themselves have no idea what signal is being fed to them, they will display whatever they are told to display. They have no limitation specific to the wire itself (though they may have some theoritical limit).

twak

11-18-06, 11:15 PM

This link says 1080i or 720p for MS HD Components

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360componenthdcable/

This one for VGA says 1080p gaming

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360vgahdcable/

Vga says 1080p games and movies which is correct.

Component says 1080i, which is what you will get in hd-dvd movies because of hdcp, but you will get 1080p in games if your tv is compatible.

gotspeed6

11-19-06, 01:48 AM

Mine will thank you.
and what tv is that? I have not seen any

twak

11-19-06, 02:10 AM

and what tv is that? I have not seen any

Sharp lc37d90u and I might suggest you do some research because there is quite a few on the market.

http://kohi.org/pics/IMG_0654.jpg

Category 5

11-19-06, 02:41 AM

Not sure if this has been asked before but when connecting the HD-DVD add on to a Pioneer plasma 1366 x 768p is there any benefit in connecting via the VGA cable, i.e. can it display native resolution? I am currently using component out via a VP30 video processor set to 720p for games and will probably use 1080i for movies so display will deinterlace and scale to 768p (I'm pretty sure it cannot accept 1080p). Is there an option for VGA 1366 x 768 output from the HD-DVD add on and can this be connected through the VP30 or will it have to be connected to the pioneer VGA PC input directly?

Thanks in advance for yor help.

Scott

P.S. I do not have the add-on yet but will receive in next 2 weeks when Japanese add-ons are released and will be connecting to my Asia Xbox 360. Just don't want to waste 60 bucks on the VGA cable if no benefit.

Xbox has 1360x760 VGA resolution (direct pixel map will just leave 3 pixles on each side black so you get true 1/1 reproduction). On my Aquos, once I finally lowered the brigthness and raised the contrast I get an amazong picture. In fact, HD-DVD on the 360 over VGA beats the 360 over component at 1080i or 720p, and get this - for PQ it beats the Roshiba HD-A1 over HDMI at 1080i or 720p. The scaler in the 360 is WAY better than the one in my Aquos...although it takes getting used to VGA and switching back before it becomes evident.

If you have brightness and contrast controls you should be able to dial it in. Going back to component for me yields a oversaturated, blooming, overscanned mess comparitively. Long live VGA.

Now if only Amirm would let us know if they are working on the color issue, MS could tout VGA as a significant advantage over PS3. To my knowledge, HDMI is a very fidgety standard so far, and color tables/handshaking etc are handled differently from set to set giving mixed results (i.e. the black crush issues).

gotspeed6

11-19-06, 02:41 AM

Sharp lc37d90u and I might suggest you do some research because there is quite a few on the market.

http://kohi.org/pics/IMG_0654.jpg

thanks, but dayum it was just a question some people like to go... wait nevermind

twak

11-19-06, 03:20 AM

thanks, but dayum it was just a question some people like to go... wait nevermind

Sorry, I got frustrated at the notion that there was none out there just because you have not seen any.

doctor carta

11-19-06, 04:18 AM

Vga says 1080p games and movies which is correct.

Component says 1080i, which is what you will get in hd-dvd movies because of hdcp, but you will get 1080p in games if your tv is compatible.

so whats the big deal with the legal rights of not letting 1080p be viewed via component cables?

thanks again guys!

talbain

11-19-06, 04:24 AM

what tv allow 1080p through component cables?

mine does. westinghouse 37w3

spiderjericho

11-19-06, 05:12 AM

I ordered one through EB a few weeks ago. I still haven't tinkered with it (military and TAD), but I bought Batman Begins, Superman Returns, Unleashed, Full Metal Jacket, Good Fellas, Superman The Movie, Superman II, Traffic and Training Day.

I have a 26"XBR1 (I'd buy a bigger tv, but it's such a hassle to get it overseas).

I have a few questions...

Is there a website where it shows what titles are on the horizon, as Amazon and Best Buy don't really provide much information.

And what software will allow you to play the movies on a PC? I have a Dell Inspiron E1705 with MCE. I saw in the article posted a few pages back that there was a Power DVD HD-DVD, but went to the Cyberlink website and couldn't find it. The same for Win DVD.

Thanks in advance.

Robert D

11-19-06, 05:55 AM

Schlotkins

11-19-06, 09:36 AM

joe221

11-19-06, 10:46 AM

This is going to sound stupid, but I'm thinking about getting one of these and a xbox just to play HD-DVDs - absolutely no games. The reason is to get 1:1 pixel mapping on my panny plasma. The question is: Which Xbox would I need? Do I just need the core? I have the VGA cable I'd need and the HD-DVD comes with a remote. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Chris

Do you actually have the XBOX VGA cable? My guess is you don't. The Premium comes with a hard disk so on the Core you'll need a hard storage card if that works, I think it does. The HD-DVD needs a storage device to work correctly (bookmarks etc.) Given the 11/22 availability of HD content online I'd say get the Premium, and curse the size of the HDD with the rest of us.

twak

11-19-06, 11:10 AM

One dumb question from me now, How do you set and store bookmarks? Thanks for the help.

talbain

11-19-06, 11:31 AM

Do you actually have the XBOX VGA cable? My guess is you don't. The Premium comes with a hard disk so on the Core you'll need a hard storage card if that works, I think it does. The HD-DVD needs a storage device to work correctly (bookmarks etc.) Given the 11/22 availability of HD content online I'd say get the Premium, and curse the size of the HDD with the rest of us.

WRONG. the core system works with the hd dvd drive just fine by itself. no storage device needed at all (either hard drive or memory card). the hd dvd drive add on comes with 192 megs of storage built in for such things as bookmarks...

scotty144

11-19-06, 01:14 PM

WRONG. the core system works with the hd dvd drive just fine by itself. no storage device needed at all (either hard drive or memory card). the hd dvd drive add on comes with 192 megs of storage built in for such things as bookmarks...

Well then, how do you bookmark?

isayx3

11-19-06, 01:16 PM

Well then, how do you bookmark?

I believe he answered that:

"the hd dvd drive add on comes with 192 megs of storage built in for such things as bookmarks... "

scotty144

11-19-06, 01:20 PM

That answers how you store bookmarks...but how do you set them?

AuroraProject

11-19-06, 01:27 PM

That answers how you store bookmarks...but how do you set them?

Press the B button the remote or controller while the movie is playing. Apparently this only works on discs that support bookmarking though.

talbain

11-19-06, 03:32 PM

you can also call up the menu and insert a bookmark that way. i saw the option on one of my discs, batman begins i think...

btw, here's the post from microsoft's Major Nelson explaining on his blog the hd dvd's memory. apparently people were asking how they can save things on there like game saves. there's also an interesting comment on how hd dvds are not being properly tagged to label this memory:

Xbox 360 HD-DVD Player Memory
If you have picked up the Xbox 360 HD DVD Player you have probably noticed that in addition to the unbelievable picture and sound quality, you now have ‘HD DVD’ as a new storage device section under Memory on your System Blade of your Xbox 360’s Dashboard. I have gotten a few emails asking me what this is and more specifically if it can be used to store game content, arcade titles etc. The answer is you can’t. You can only delete items from this memory area, not add them. In fact, games won’t even ‘see’ this area…so for the most part you’ll never come across it, but I wanted to explain exactly WHAT this area is. This memory area is part of the HD DVD spec and it only accessible by the Xbox 360 HD DVD player when using the advanced features of the HD DVD format. For example, if you lay down any bookmarks from the HD DVD’s that you rent from from Netflix, then you’ll use the Memory section of the System blade to delete that content, since it would stand to reason that you don't need the information again since you rented the disc. Unfortunately, none of the current HD DVD's properly tag their data..so for the short term all you'll see is 'Unknown Title.' Remember: Not every HD DVD has the same advanced features, so check the back of the HD DVD packaging (Example) to see what each title supports.

Hope that clears it up.

Mikey Palmice

11-19-06, 09:14 PM

I'm not sure if there are any 1080p movies currently available for download from XBLive, but the 360 can playback 1080p movies from USB devices, and can also stream them from a Media Center PC.

Sorry for the noober question, but how do you get 1080p content on your PC? I'm not asking how to get it from the PC to the 360, but how do actually get 1080p content on your PC?

I have windows media center and I do stream audio and video content to my 360 already

thanks

Mikey Palmice

11-19-06, 10:37 PM

"I dont want to spend $40 on the VGA cable to find out its still not upconverted, and I'd hate to have to use 2 dvd players"

Dude read a faq or even this thread, using VGA gives you 1080P for games HD-DVD's and standard DVD's.

VGA= 1080P on everything

Sorry for the dumb question, but can I use this setup with a sony A10 50 inch? How does one hook up a vga cable to the xbox 360?

Oops, I just figured out how it works. didn't realize MS made a special cable for it. My new question is, are there any negatives to using this cable instead of the components?

and lastly, does it matter to have 1080p if you have a TV that does 720p? Is it a waste with this type of TV?

joe221

11-19-06, 10:37 PM

joe221

11-19-06, 10:46 PM

Sorry for the dumb question, but can I use this setup with a sony A10 50 inch? How does one hook up a vga cable to the xbox 360?

Oops, I just figured out how it works. didn't realize MS made a special cable for it. My new question is, are there any negatives to using this cable instead of the components?

and lastly, does it matter to have 1080p if you have a TV that does 720p? Is it a waste with this type of TV?

I believe your set is a 720p set. Just use component. The ones that come with the Premium. I have an earlier version (XS955) and component works great!

AuroraProject

11-19-06, 11:12 PM

My new question is, are there any negatives to using this cable instead of the components?

For me there was, the VGA cable gave me washed out colors and soft edges. I have the same tv as you, my advice is to avoid the VGA/360 setup on that tv.

maverick0716

11-19-06, 11:31 PM

Sorry for the dumb question, but can I use this setup with a sony A10 50 inch? How does one hook up a vga cable to the xbox 360?

Oops, I just figured out how it works. didn't realize MS made a special cable for it. My new question is, are there any negatives to using this cable instead of the components?

and lastly, does it matter to have 1080p if you have a TV that does 720p? Is it a waste with this type of TV?

I have the 42" version of your TV and own the HD DVD add on player.......the difference is huge! You'll want to use Component cables and set your 360 to 720p. The VGA input on these TV's is designed for PC use and has extremely limited tweaking abilities.....with Component, you will have tons of teaking abilities.

NextWaveG

11-19-06, 11:54 PM

ShinHed

11-20-06, 12:04 AM

Is there a beta or RTM version of Powerdvd HD Edition someone can let me "test"?

bry223

11-20-06, 12:37 AM

Sorry for the noober question, but how do you get 1080p content on your PC? I'm not asking how to get it from the PC to the 360, but how do actually get 1080p content on your PC?

I have windows media center and I do stream audio and video content to my 360 already

thanks

I use Dave's trailer page to download 1080p trailers and play them back on my 360;

http://www.drfoster.f2s.com/trailers_hd-dvd.shtml

The Microsoft WMV showcase of 1080p content really isnt 1080p so I dont even bother.

kohi

11-20-06, 01:25 AM

The Microsoft WMV showcase of 1080p content really isnt 1080p so I dont even bother.

Could you please elaborate on why the WMV showcase content is not really 1080p?

thanx... :)

Sean_O

11-20-06, 01:30 AM

the3rdpower

11-20-06, 01:32 AM

As VGA input on all LCD/Plasma's seem to be completely untweakable the capabilities of this player really seem to be null and void. I'm ready to pick up a Samsung 52 LCD w/ a VGA input, however, I just found out I cannot calibrate the VGA input... this just really sucks. I'm wondering if anyone has tried a VGA to Component converter to by-pass the 1080p over component issues. Since the converter cable doesn't do much to the signal I'm figuring it should be a good way to fool the 360 into thinking it's outputting to VGA. This whole VGA fiasco is very irritating.

indy911

11-20-06, 02:39 AM

Sean_O

11-20-06, 04:14 AM

The SPDIF standard (using either an optical or coax cable) doesnt provide enough bandwidth for a TrueHD signal. In addition, they will not allow digital output without encryption.

That exactly the info I was looking for. Thank you indy911! :)

I figured it might be a bandwidth issue, but encrypting an audio signal like that sems just... silly to me.

Oh well. Some one got rich selling the studios an encryption scheme that won't really help them stop piracy at all, and will help to slow adoption of a new format which would drive the perpetuity of their movie sales. Sigh...

Peter Loan

11-20-06, 05:18 AM

I don't know if this was discussed earlier in the thread, but is there any way to individually setup the resolution for HD-DVD playback and 360 gameplay?

I'm getting an audio sync issue when playing HD-DVDs at 720p...and the picture looks a bit softer when compared to 1080i. As for gameplay, I find that the 360's frame rate and picture quality is improved with the 720p setting.

Mikey Palmice

11-20-06, 06:59 AM

great, thanks for all the help everybody. This product is very exciting

jthomaslambert

11-20-06, 08:24 AM

Picked up my HD-DVD drive thursday. I used it with my SP7200 projector @ 720p. Watched MI:3 last night, great picture and noticed no sound lag.

MI:3 is DD+ so you likely won't have sound lag with that title. Lag seems to be limited to TrueHD. However, with DD+ titles (including MI:3) many users are reporting a lack of punch (initially thought to be a lack of bass but later reported to be missing mids as well). I know I've compared my HD-DVD MI:3 to my DVD MI:3 and there's a significant difference in the audio (much worse on HD-DVD).

oleus

11-20-06, 08:29 AM

MI:3 is DD+ so you likely won't have sound lag with that title. Lag seems to be limited to TrueHD. However, with DD+ titles (including MI:3) many users are reporting a lack of punch (initially thought to be a lack of bass but later reported to be missing mids as well). I know I've compared my HD-DVD MI:3 to my DVD MI:3 and there's a significant difference in the audio (much worse on HD-DVD).

this title has by far been the worst sounding one for me so far. in the heavy action sequences it actually starts to sound QUIETER on my 7.1 setup than the rest of the scenes! like someone is turning down the volume during big explosions.....

aaronwt

11-20-06, 08:32 AM

I'm really thinking about getting the HD-DVD drive mainly as an upconverter for my standard DVDs. I have over 150 DVDs and don't plan on replacing all of them with HD-DVDs. I have a Infocus SP5000 which is rated at 720p and also reviewed as having a poor built in converter. DVDs on it simply through my 360 are bad, but HD content downloaded on Marketplace is definetely better. Has anyone tried watching a standard DVD on a 720p projector via VGA cables yet? Did you notice an improvement? I'm running Monster Component cables to my projector right now, but I can switch to VGA to get the upconversion.
You don't need the HD DVD drive to upconvert SD DVDs. The 360 already doees it with the DVD drive in the console. It will also work with the HD DVD add on but with eithe rone you need to use the VGA cable to get the upconverting capabilities. It does look really good at 1920x1080P. I have it set up on a 21" Gateway and a 61" Samsung, both accept 1080P and both pictures are excellent.

new04quest

11-20-06, 08:52 AM

I'm glad that I purchased the Xbox 360. After all the troubles and the dangling with the MCE machine and the Xbox HD-DVD player, it is time to enjoy the HD on the Xbox. The HD PQ/AQ HD-DVD player on the Xbox 360 is amazing. It is a lot better than the HD PQ/AQ on the CableCard. It is trouble free so far. It is really designed for plug and play. There is no other software and hard requires for the Xbox HD-DVD player on the Xbox 360.

Since I never associate w/ any gamer system, I'll need to learn how to connect the Xbox 360 to the MCE. Do you have any suggestion? Do I need another wireless adapter for the Xbox 360? The MCE next to it is using 240Mbps wireless adapter. I don't have any CAT6 connection at the theater room.

Oh wait another question: Is it possible I can get 7.1 surround sound from Xbox 360? It would be great on the 7.1 HT system.

Deezul

11-20-06, 09:59 AM

Since I never associate w/ any gamer system, I'll need to learn how to connect the Xbox 360 to the MCE. Do you have any suggestion? Do I need another wireless adapter for the Xbox 360? The MCE next to it is using 240Mbps wireless adapter. I don't have any CAT6 connection at the theater room.

Oh wait another question: Is it possible I can get 7.1 surround sound from Xbox 360? It would be great on the 7.1 HT system.

1. You'll need the 360 wireless adapter to connect to your network.

2. No, just 5.1 Dolby Digital

Deezul :)

timick1

11-20-06, 11:08 AM

I believe your set is a 720p set. Just use component. The ones that come with the Premium. I have an earlier version (XS955) and component works great!

Same here. The MS component cables work great. Set the XBOX 360 to 1080i though for watching movies.

FilmMixer

11-20-06, 11:27 AM

Hello everybody,

I still don't know everything about DD+ and True HD, so I am wondering, what is stopping MS from allowing the actual DD+ stream or True HD stream to be passed through the optical output?

Is it a hardware or bandwidth issue, or is it something that could potentially be patched in a firmware update?

Bandwidth is an issure, yes.... HDMI has the bandwidth, however...

There are 2 ways in which to author a disc: basic and advnaced. All studio films to date have been autrhored in advanced. Advanced discs will never pass the native bitstream.. Why? The new advanced codecs rely on a mixer inside the player which takes the main track, commentaries, player sounds, etc. and mix them together and output them as a new bitstream. This is different than SD DVD in that on SD each audio track was a seperate track for each thing, so the main track was a complete track, the commentary was a complete track, etc... takes up a lot more space. Also, with the new codecs, you can dedicate a higer bitrate to the main audio track, less bandwidth to the commentray track (or even have it streaming in real time over the internet through the Ethernet port) and have some efficient metadata tell the player how to mix the two tracks together (ie lower the main track when someone is giving commentary).. a very elegant solution.. On an HDMI setup, all of this is output as LPCM.

Some ask why all of the bitstream data can't just be sent out to the receiver, and then let the receiver do the mixing... it is very simple. The receiver has no way to know if the user has selected to turn the commentary on or off (i.e. U-Control on Universal titles) in the player....

As a side comment, there is no benefit in doing the decoding inside the receiver/proc rather than the player... the conversion from bitstream to PCM is not as critical as the conversion of PCM to analog...

As another note, I came over to this thread after having a discussion with Dansk on another forum about the lack of quality sound from the add-on... I have heard KK and MI3 on the Toshiba's, and they sound fantastic... If there is any issue wiht the 360, it must be in their re-encode to DD from the DD+ or DTS tracks on the HD DVD's...

FilmMixer

11-20-06, 11:31 AM

The Premium comes with a hard disk so on the Core you'll need a hard storage card if that works, I think it does. The HD-DVD needs a storage device to work correctly (bookmarks etc.)

Joe.. it is actually part of the HD DVD spec that players must have on board persistent memory. This is not only for bookmarks, but resume points, new commentary that can be downloaded from the web, etc.... they can even download new trailers from the web so that when you put in a favorite title, you don't have to look at the same trailer every time you boot it up...

If a player has an HD DVD logo on it, it is madatory to have persistent memory on board...

Hookster

11-20-06, 11:43 AM

To folks who have tried hooking up the HD DVD drive through the X-Box: Which looks better, componant or VGA?
Thanx

BuGsArEtAsTy

11-20-06, 11:45 AM

Joe.. it is actually part of the HD DVD spec that players must have on board persistent memory. This is not only for bookmarks, but resume points,
Now if they'd only give us that resume feature...

new commentary that can be downloaded from the web, etc.... they can even download new trailers from the web so that when you put in a favorite title, you don't have to look at the same trailer every time you boot it up...
Cool, but it'd be nice if we could just skip that trailer completely.

JudgeSmails

11-20-06, 11:52 AM

Same here. The MS component cables work great. Set the XBOX 360 to 1080i though for watching movies.

I agree 100% with that. I'm using 720p for games and 1080i for movies. Stinks having to switch it manually each time.

JS

jnoel

11-20-06, 11:54 AM

To folks who have tried hooking up the HD DVD drive through the X-Box: Which looks better, componant or VGA?
Thanx

Why dont you just take the time to read the last few pages of this thread.

FilmMixer

11-20-06, 03:56 PM

Now if they'd only give us that resume feature...

I can't for the life of me figure out why the studios aren't setting the resume feature on.. I guess WB thinks bookmardks are the answer, and the others ??????

beba

11-20-06, 05:11 PM

Thanks, but no. I've already done this with DVD-R. Your CD-Rs and my DVD-R burned this way are just plain data discs compatible with any computer.

I'm talking about a DVD-R formatted as an actual HD DVD (UDF 2.5?) complete with menus and everything. I'm guessing that it should work fine in both the external HD DVD drive (of course) and in the built-in DVD drive, but I'm not 100% sure about this.

P.S. If this did work, it could be an interesting way to market the benefits of HD DVD video playback with the Xbox 360, pushing HD DVD add-on drive sales.

Hello I did burn the HD DVD on DVD-r and it did play only the menu but it stop there. I used Ulead DVD Moviefactory 5. Anybody burn HD dvd on DVD and playd in Xbox 360 HD DVD player?
I have Sony HC3 camcorder and would like to burn the HD video

Tom

rr6966

11-20-06, 06:02 PM

thrustbucket

11-20-06, 07:24 PM

Hookster,

I have a Samsung 56" 1080p dlp. On my tv I prefer the vga, both look very nice but the vga just seems a little more detailed, but you are splitting hairs on this difference. On vga you get 1080p, and the component only outputs 1080i, but I believe my picture preference is more due to digital (vga) versus analog ( component ) hook up.

Except for the small fact that through the 360's VGA connection it's sending an analog signal. Your getting analog either way. There is no "Digital" out of the 360..... for now.

Fingolfin269

11-20-06, 07:45 PM

Same here. The MS component cables work great. Set the XBOX 360 to 1080i though for watching movies.

I'm looking into getting one of these drives and this statement confuses me a bit. The games look great at 720P so why would I want to use 1080i for the movies? I have a previous gen 42" Hitachi Ultravision LCD (the last of the grey sets) and I'm 99% sure it is a 720P set. Would I still want to use 1080i in this case?

I've gotta say, I usually come here and look for information before making any AV decision and expected to enter this thread and find nothing but disappointment. I was going to buy a standalone but hell this looks like the best bang for the buck, especially for someone like me without a 1080p television.

Thanks for any info everyone.

pospower

11-20-06, 08:13 PM

What About WMV disks does this play them?

Deezul

11-20-06, 09:12 PM

oleus

11-20-06, 10:41 PM

just tried out the VGA cord for the first time on my Infocus 7200 projector...this is the first time I have used that input, and while at first it looked wahsed out and dull, adjusting the brightness and contrast really helped make the picture come alive and reveal a more detailed picture than i was getting with component and much better contrast. just seems to be more shadow details and purer whites. very happy with the VGA! if they could just do a patch for the weak 5.1 that would be great.

SJHT

11-20-06, 11:32 PM

I agree 100% with that. I'm using 720p for games and 1080i for movies. Stinks having to switch it manually each time.

JS

It would be slick if they allowed you to set two different settings. One for the game drive and one for the HD DVD drive. Are you listening MS? :) SJ

nataraj

11-20-06, 11:35 PM

It would be slick if they allowed you to set two different settings. One for the game drive and one for the HD DVD drive. Are you listening MS? :) SJ

If there are enough people asking for this, I guess it shouldn't be hard to do.

BuGsArEtAsTy

11-20-06, 11:37 PM

If there are enough people asking for this, I guess it shouldn't be hard to do.
Unlike the situation with the PS3, am I correct to think that only the Xbox 360 and not the individual games would need to be updated to support this?

However, it's not crucial for the Xbox 360 (even though it would be beneficial for some), which is why they haven't implemented it yet I'm guessing.

oleus

11-21-06, 12:36 AM

I'm looking into getting one of these drives and this statement confuses me a bit. The games look great at 720P so why would I want to use 1080i for the movies? I have a previous gen 42" Hitachi Ultravision LCD (the last of the grey sets) and I'm 99% sure it is a 720P set. Would I still want to use 1080i in this case?

I've gotta say, I usually come here and look for information before making any AV decision and expected to enter this thread and find nothing but disappointment. I was going to buy a standalone but hell this looks like the best bang for the buck, especially for someone like me without a 1080p television.

Thanks for any info everyone.

the games are all native 720p so it's best to keep it in that resolution if your tv accepts native 720p.....and it seems for hddvd (which are 1080i/p native) that 720p native displays are doing a better job of downscaling than the 360, so for both 720p and 1080i/p displays it seems that playing hd-dvd's with 1080i output it the best for almost all displays under 1080p

Sean_O

11-21-06, 01:42 AM

Bandwidth is an issure, yes.... HDMI has the bandwidth, however...

There are 2 ways in which to author a disc: basic and advnaced. All studio films to date have been autrhored in advanced. Advanced discs will never pass the native bitstream.. Why? The new advanced codecs rely on a mixer inside the player which takes the main track, commentaries, player sounds, etc. and mix them together and output them as a new bitstream. This is different than SD DVD in that on SD each audio track was a seperate track for each thing, so the main track was a complete track, the commentary was a complete track, etc... takes up a lot more space. Also, with the new codecs, you can dedicate a higer bitrate to the main audio track, less bandwidth to the commentray track (or even have it streaming in real time over the internet through the Ethernet port) and have some efficient metadata tell the player how to mix the two tracks together (ie lower the main track when someone is giving commentary).. a very elegant solution.. On an HDMI setup, all of this is output as LPCM.

Some ask why all of the bitstream data can't just be sent out to the receiver, and then let the receiver do the mixing... it is very simple. The receiver has no way to know if the user has selected to turn the commentary on or off (i.e. U-Control on Universal titles) in the player....

As a side comment, there is no benefit in doing the decoding inside the receiver/proc rather than the player... the conversion from bitstream to PCM is not as critical as the conversion of PCM to analog...

Interesting. Thank you for the info.

As far as letting the receiver know what you have selected, why not just send a flag signal down the same pipe to let the chipset in the receiver know what to do? No one thought of that?

FilmMixer

11-21-06, 02:02 AM

Interesting. Thank you for the info.

As far as letting the receiver know what you have selected, why not just send a flag signal down the same pipe to let the chipset in the receiver know what to do? No one thought of that?

Maybe, maybe not.. but I cannot think of one benefit in doing the decoding inside the receiver instead of the player...

Dahlsim

11-21-06, 02:40 AM

I can't for the life of me figure out why the studios aren't setting the resume feature on.. I guess WB thinks bookmardks are the answer, and the others ??????

The answer to this question was posted in the "insiders" thread.

As I recall in a nutshell it's a technical hurdle because the need to restore everything properly in support of the advanced interactive functions of the hd-dvd format. A search of that thread would yield more details of course.

nataraj

11-21-06, 10:39 AM

I've opened a 360 HD DVD add-on wish list thread. Pls post your wish list (and bugs) in that thread. The list will go directly to the xbox add-on team.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=754324

nataraj

11-21-06, 10:44 AM

Unlike the situation with the PS3, am I correct to think that only the Xbox 360 and not the individual games would need to be updated to support this?

That would be my guess as well.

However, it's not crucial for the Xbox 360 (even though it would be beneficial for some), which is why they haven't implemented it yet I'm guessing.

A lot of things go into making the feature list - competition, market research and certainly customer asks.

One thing for sure. The feature asks in that wishlist thread will all be looked into.

FrancescoP

11-21-06, 05:05 PM

Did anyone was prompted for the update and downloaded HD DVD patch today and can tell us if there are improvements?

http://www.majornelson.com/archive/2006/11/21/hd-dvd-auto-update.aspx

wcaughey

11-21-06, 09:20 PM

Can someone verify something for me as I don't have the hd dvd add on for the 360...

I am under the assumption that the same options and menu appears at the bottom of the screen as when you'd watch a SD dvd via the internal drive.

Can someone see if the ASPECT RATIO button in the advanced options allows for HD DVD movies to be vertically stretched via the LETTERBOX option to eliminate the black bars in anamorphic 2.35:1 aspect ratio hd dvds (king kong is in the 2.35:1 aspect ratio)?

I've found this works for standard dvds and effectively vertically stretches anamorphic movies to full resolution (which is perfect for 2.35:1 CH projection), but this would be amazing news if this also worked for hd dvds.

tcrews

11-21-06, 10:47 PM

Did anyone was prompted for the update and downloaded HD DVD patch today and can tell us if there are improvements?

http://www.majornelson.com/archive/2006/11/21/hd-dvd-auto-update.aspx
I was prompted tonight when I started MI:III. No changes that I can see but I've only had the drive for a few days.

Watched some of MI:III yesterday but today got the "update is available".

Tom Crews

ChrisARN

11-21-06, 10:53 PM

wcaughey

11-22-06, 12:57 AM

t_tringle

11-22-06, 09:10 AM

Except for the small fact that through the 360's VGA connection it's sending an analog signal. Your getting analog either way. There is no "Digital" out of the 360..... for now.

Please make sure you clarify that by this you mean, there are no "true digital" connection types available for the XBOX360 .... for now. Just because some trolls will latch on to that and then regurgitate it to mean that the XBOX360 is "incapable" of outputting a digital signal, which to my knowledge no one has proved yet.

However if Microsoft does not announce an HDMI cable soon it doesn't look good for digital connections.

TimT

Mikey Palmice

11-22-06, 09:21 AM

I'm really thinking about getting the HD-DVD drive mainly as an upconverter for my standard DVDs. I have over 150 DVDs and don't plan on replacing all of them with HD-DVDs. I have a Infocus SP5000 which is rated at 720p and also reviewed as having a poor built in converter. DVDs on it simply through my 360 are bad, but HD content downloaded on Marketplace is definetely better. Has anyone tried watching a standard DVD on a 720p projector via VGA cables yet? Did you notice an improvement? I'm running Monster Component cables to my projector right now, but I can switch to VGA to get the upconversion.

does the standard dvd upconversion only work over vga? So, you can't use component if you want to upconvert?

Mikey Palmice

11-22-06, 09:25 AM

Same here. The MS component cables work great. Set the XBOX 360 to 1080i though for watching movies.

1080i for movies? but isn't it better to stay at 720p since that is the native resolution of the set?

thrustbucket

11-22-06, 11:15 AM

Didn't see this posted, but the next time you play an HD-DVD there is an auto-update: http://www.majornelson.com/archive/2006/11/21/hd-dvd-auto-update.aspx
If you have an Xbox 360 HD DVD player, you’ll be prompted for an auto update the next time you watch an HD DVD movie. This update has no new features in it, but contains title specific movie playback improvements and few fixes to some localized text (and I’d imagine a few more lines of code )

If you don’t have access to Xbox Live, you can download the free update from Xbox.com.

Hookster

11-22-06, 11:42 AM

I hooked up my HD DVD last night. Does anyone know if you can "zoom" the picture via component input? VGA won't let you. If you play a regular DVD in the Xbox it lets you adjust the picture size.

VTGOLFER

11-22-06, 12:10 PM

thrustbucket

11-22-06, 12:16 PM

Quick question that has probably been mentioned in this thread but I do not have the time to read every post and I am sorry about that. I hooked up the HD DVD add on last night and I was wondering how to set the X-Box to 720p. My projector is 720p native but everything is coming through 1080i. Also, is the remote wireless?

Thanks

How many remotes have wires attached to them? Aren't all remotes wireless?

You need to go to the system blade, first option, something like Initial Setup at the top. Then select display. Change it there.

jheart

11-22-06, 12:26 PM

Just picked mine up from Circuit City in White Plains, NY. They have 3 left all KK edition. I also picked up Batman Begins which I hear looks great on HD and it was only $20 to my surprise.......Can't wait to hook it up when I get home !!!

bkilian

11-22-06, 12:42 PM

Schlotkins

11-22-06, 01:14 PM

Anyone using the xbox player with a Panasonic plasma? I want to hook it up to a 50" one using the VGA. Is the color space correct? I can use the 1360x768 setting for 1:1 pixel mapping correct?

A bit off topic, but can you browse the internet with the xbox? Probably not since there isn't a keyboard... :)

Thanks for answering my stupid questions.

Chris

talbain

11-22-06, 01:21 PM

How many remotes have wires attached to them? Aren't all remotes wireless?

You need to go to the system blade, first option, something like Initial Setup at the top. Then select display. Change it there.

lol. hey i remember cleaning out my aunt's garage a couple of years ago and they had an old vcr type device that had a wired remote. i have no idea what it was but we laughed for hours at that one...

Deezul

11-22-06, 03:06 PM

How many remotes have wires attached to them? Aren't all remotes wireless?

Nope. I remember 20+ years ago looking a friend's VCR that was wired to the box.

Deezul

DSET

11-22-06, 03:08 PM

Didn't see this posted, but the next time you play an HD-DVD there is an auto-update: http://www.majornelson.com/archive/2006/11/21/hd-dvd-auto-update.aspx

Has this update fixed the 1080p VGA XBR2 and all the LCD’s it didn’t work on?
I’m sure it doesn’t because if it did it would be all over the forums by now

joffer

11-22-06, 03:14 PM

xbracerx

11-22-06, 03:20 PM

You need to start playing an HD-DVD to trigger the update.

Has anyone noticed anything different since the update? I think that starting a scene once you've selected it from the menu is much faster, used to be like a few second delay.

joffer

11-22-06, 03:59 PM

[QUOTE=xbracerx]You need to start playing an HD-DVD to trigger the update.
QUOTE]
i did, no update :(

BuGsArEtAsTy

11-22-06, 04:18 PM

i did, no update :(
You also have to be signed into Xbox Live.

thrustbucket

11-22-06, 04:25 PM

Has this update fixed the 1080p VGA XBR2 and all the LCD’s it didn’t work on?
I’m sure it doesn’t because if it did it would be all over the forums by now

For those of you that didn't read it the first time I quoted it:

This update has no new features in it, but contains title specific movie playback improvements and few fixes to some localized text

VTGOLFER

11-23-06, 10:25 AM

How many remotes have wires attached to them? Aren't all remotes wireless?

You need to go to the system blade, first option, something like Initial Setup at the top. Then select display. Change it there.

Ok, the joke is on me. I meant to ask is if the remote is rf. Thanks for the answer on how to program 720p into X-Box.

mattbugz

11-23-06, 11:42 AM

For those of you that didn't read it the first time I quoted it:

I wish they would give us specifics as to what "title specific" updates were! :)

dtro

11-23-06, 04:02 PM

t_tringle

11-23-06, 04:19 PM

I'm kind of in the same boat as a bunch of people here with a 720p native set using component and 720p for gaming.

Thinking about buying the addon, but wondering about my current SD DVD's and if the addon will help the picture quality of those, and will the addon even play them, or do I need to use the main drive?

Another question, can I expect the quality of HD-DVD to be as good or better than the HD movies I watch over cable, say on HDNET or INHD or even Discovery?

This has been discussed quite extensively here, but I'll answer quickly so hopefully others won't ask the same question again. No offense to you, but if others read the previous posts they would get most of the answers they are looking for.

If you are using Component Out, SD-DVD that is Standard Definition DVD's will only be capable of 480p, this is not a limitation by microsoft but in that they are following the letter of the law and not upscaling DVD's over a non digital connection. So to answer your question, the add on will not make your SD-DVD's look any better. Yes you can play them through the Add on drive, but the only difference is that the HD-DVD add on's drive is quieter (much quieter) than the built in drive on some of the 360 models.

With regards to Hi Def the Xbox 360 is capable of 1080i over component for HD-DVD's and it is capable of 1080p for games over component on TV's that accept 1080p over that type of connection.

As for the quality of HD-DVD, while some people complain about the differences between the HD-A1, I am not one of those people as I can't afford a new $500 dollar device everytime one is available.

The HD-DVD Addon is an amazing bargain. The picture quality far outshines that of Standard DVD except on the best of Upscaling DVD players and even then most DVD Compression is very noticable on sets nearing or above 40 to 50 inches.

On my original 27 inch ED/HD Tube Television from samsung, I was very impressed with DVD Quality. But on my 50 inch CRT Rear Projection Toshiba regular DVD's compression is much more noticed.

Comparing HD-DVD to some of the Broadcast HD stuff is a no brainer, while some video HD material may look superior, anything that is not running at a high bitrate gets really blocky in high movement scenes. That does not happen on HD-DVD at least at my level of perception. I may be getting a little old but I have a very good eye for compression artifacts etc.

If you have a decent sized TV, ie 32 inches an higher then I would say that getting the HD-DVD addon for the XBOX360 is a Win-Win situation for you.

Now for the bad news,

I already told you that the XBOX 360 does not upscale DVD's over component. While it doesn't upscale they still haven't improved DVD playback a whole lot more then the original XBOX 360. I have an HTPC hooked up to my TV over HDMI and with Theatertek I can get a picture that outshines all but the most expensive DVD players.

However if your happy with the DVD playback on the XBOX 360 then it will look just as good if not slightly better than your used to. This may be due to updates that come as part of the HD-DVD addon, but the quality on S-DVD is just not comparable with a really good DVD player or HTPC.

ALso, in case you see some of the people complaining about the Dolby Digital + soundtracks, I wouldn't worry too much about it unless you have a very high end Home Theater setup. The sound is pretty good in my book and it's good enough until good Receivers come down in price and the whole audio part of HD-DVD / Blue Ray get's shaken out.

And the Dolby True HD soundtracks that are on some of the movies are amazing.

Good Luck

TimT

t_tringle

11-23-06, 04:21 PM

I wish they would give us specifics as to what "title specific" updates were! :)

I wish that Microsoft would stop being so damn secretive about what they are planning with the XBOX 360. I know that they have to wait until they are near release of some things before speaking about them but it takes them months to make announcements and even when they do make announcements it's a little hard to get the true facts about what they have actually released, done, patched etc.

TimT

dtro

11-23-06, 05:27 PM

This has been discussed quite extensively here, but I'll answer quickly so hopefully others won't ask the same question again. No offense to you, but if others read the previous posts they would get most of the answers they are looking for.

If you are using Component Out, SD-DVD that is Standard Definition DVD's will only be capable of 480p, this is not a limitation by microsoft but in that they are following the letter of the law and not upscaling DVD's over a non digital connection. So to answer your question, the add on will not make your SD-DVD's look any better. Yes you can play them through the Add on drive, but the only difference is that the HD-DVD add on's drive is quieter (much quieter) than the built in drive on some of the 360 models.

With regards to Hi Def the Xbox 360 is capable of 1080i over component for HD-DVD's and it is capable of 1080p for games over component on TV's that accept 1080p over that type of connection.

As for the quality of HD-DVD, while some people complain about the differences between the HD-A1, I am not one of those people as I can't afford a new $500 dollar device everytime one is available.

The HD-DVD Addon is an amazing bargain. The picture quality far outshines that of Standard DVD except on the best of Upscaling DVD players and even then most DVD Compression is very noticable on sets nearing or above 40 to 50 inches.

On my original 27 inch ED/HD Tube Television from samsung, I was very impressed with DVD Quality. But on my 50 inch CRT Rear Projection Toshiba regular DVD's compression is much more noticed.

Comparing HD-DVD to some of the Broadcast HD stuff is a no brainer, while some video HD material may look superior, anything that is not running at a high bitrate gets really blocky in high movement scenes. That does not happen on HD-DVD at least at my level of perception. I may be getting a little old but I have a very good eye for compression artifacts etc.

If you have a decent sized TV, ie 32 inches an higher then I would say that getting the HD-DVD addon for the XBOX360 is a Win-Win situation for you.

Now for the bad news,

I already told you that the XBOX 360 does not upscale DVD's over component. While it doesn't upscale they still haven't improved DVD playback a whole lot more then the original XBOX 360. I have an HTPC hooked up to my TV over HDMI and with Theatertek I can get a picture that outshines all but the most expensive DVD players.

However if your happy with the DVD playback on the XBOX 360 then it will look just as good if not slightly better than your used to. This may be due to updates that come as part of the HD-DVD addon, but the quality on S-DVD is just not comparable with a really good DVD player or HTPC.

ALso, in case you see some of the people complaining about the Dolby Digital + soundtracks, I wouldn't worry too much about it unless you have a very high end Home Theater setup. The sound is pretty good in my book and it's good enough until good Receivers come down in price and the whole audio part of HD-DVD / Blue Ray get's shaken out.

And the Dolby True HD soundtracks that are on some of the movies are amazing.

Good Luck

TimT

Thanks Tim, I appreciate the synopsis. I did try reading this thread and only made it to about page 14 and got tired of all the 1080i/1080p arguments. Honestly, I could care less. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

I guess that's one my of my beefs about dedicated threads and having to weed though them.

Anyways, it sounds like the addon would make a good addition to my setup. I am running an Epson Livingstation 47" RPLCD.

The more research I do, the more I'm convinced that HD-DVD will come out at top.

That it a concern however, as I don't need another minidisc or laser disc player collecting dust on my stand.

It's bad enough that I bought a TV that I can't even find a replacement bulb for anymore (2 years later):mad:

Thanks again

TriplePhatGoose

11-23-06, 07:02 PM

Good synopsis. Thanks for your input.

This has been discussed quite extensively here, but I'll answer quickly so hopefully others won't ask the same question again. No offense to you, but if others read the previous posts they would get most of the answers they are looking for.

If you are using Component Out, SD-DVD that is Standard Definition DVD's will only be capable of 480p, this is not a limitation by microsoft but in that they are following the letter of the law and not upscaling DVD's over a non digital connection. So to answer your question, the add on will not make your SD-DVD's look any better. Yes you can play them through the Add on drive, but the only difference is that the HD-DVD add on's drive is quieter (much quieter) than the built in drive on some of the 360 models.

With regards to Hi Def the Xbox 360 is capable of 1080i over component for HD-DVD's and it is capable of 1080p for games over component on TV's that accept 1080p over that type of connection.

As for the quality of HD-DVD, while some people complain about the differences between the HD-A1, I am not one of those people as I can't afford a new $500 dollar device everytime one is available.

The HD-DVD Addon is an amazing bargain. The picture quality far outshines that of Standard DVD except on the best of Upscaling DVD players and even then most DVD Compression is very noticable on sets nearing or above 40 to 50 inches.

On my original 27 inch ED/HD Tube Television from samsung, I was very impressed with DVD Quality. But on my 50 inch CRT Rear Projection Toshiba regular DVD's compression is much more noticed.

Comparing HD-DVD to some of the Broadcast HD stuff is a no brainer, while some video HD material may look superior, anything that is not running at a high bitrate gets really blocky in high movement scenes. That does not happen on HD-DVD at least at my level of perception. I may be getting a little old but I have a very good eye for compression artifacts etc.

If you have a decent sized TV, ie 32 inches an higher then I would say that getting the HD-DVD addon for the XBOX360 is a Win-Win situation for you.

Now for the bad news,

I already told you that the XBOX 360 does not upscale DVD's over component. While it doesn't upscale they still haven't improved DVD playback a whole lot more then the original XBOX 360. I have an HTPC hooked up to my TV over HDMI and with Theatertek I can get a picture that outshines all but the most expensive DVD players.

However if your happy with the DVD playback on the XBOX 360 then it will look just as good if not slightly better than your used to. This may be due to updates that come as part of the HD-DVD addon, but the quality on S-DVD is just not comparable with a really good DVD player or HTPC.

ALso, in case you see some of the people complaining about the Dolby Digital + soundtracks, I wouldn't worry too much about it unless you have a very high end Home Theater setup. The sound is pretty good in my book and it's good enough until good Receivers come down in price and the whole audio part of HD-DVD / Blue Ray get's shaken out.

And the Dolby True HD soundtracks that are on some of the movies are amazing.

Good Luck

TimT

bkilian

11-24-06, 03:02 AM

I wish that Microsoft would stop being so damn secretive about what they are planning with the XBOX 360. I know that they have to wait until they are near release of some things before speaking about them but it takes them months to make announcements and even when they do make announcements it's a little hard to get the true facts about what they have actually released, done, patched etc.

TimTVideo game consoles are a very competitive business, and information is incredibly useful to competitors. Heck, even people working in the teams only know about stuff if they're actually working on it, and even then you don't know much. Our team worked on the addon, and we found out the price from Engadget and the launch date from Amazon. What we don't know, we can't accidentally let slip :).

As to the specific titles affected by the update, most of them haven't been released yet and some are non-US titles. So I'm sure you can understand why the actual list of titles hasn't been released? We wouldn't want to get into trouble with a studio for accidentally announcing we'd made a fix in a title they haven't announced they're releasing, or something like that.

Jdog35

11-24-06, 03:06 AM

UxiSXRD

11-24-06, 03:32 AM

I can't for the life of me figure out why the studios aren't setting the resume feature on.. I guess WB thinks bookmardks are the answer, and the others ??????

Why is this dependent on the studios, anyway? I can't imagine it's a HUGE feat for the 360 itself to remember the last n number of titles and the time stamp on said title. We could even configure that option for how much space on our hard drive we'd want to dedicate for that purpose...

Anyone else having the stuttering problem with 1080i over component? I'm only having the problem with King Kong. It's very noticible yet disappears when I do 720p output. This does NOT happen Serenity or MI3, which display 1080i without hiccup or issue.

t_tringle

11-24-06, 09:45 AM

Why is this dependent on the studios, anyway? I can't imagine it's a HUGE feat for the 360 itself to remember the last n number of titles and the time stamp on said title. We could even configure that option for how much space on our hard drive we'd want to dedicate for that purpose...

Anyone else having the stuttering problem with 1080i over component? I'm only having the problem with King Kong. It's very noticible yet disappears when I do 720p output. This does NOT happen Serenity or MI3, which display 1080i without hiccup or issue.

UxiSXRD, I'm sure someone with a more detailed understanding of the new HD-DVD authoring standards can answer this better.

But the way I understand it is that they developed HD-DVD to be extensible via the software side of the players, and not to depend so much on the hardware. This was so that they could keep adding new features without having to change firmwares everyday.

One example is FF/RW on HD-DVD's, on standard authored HD-DVD's when you Fast Forward and or Rewind on the XBOX 360 add on you get only the basics as it shows what speed from the 360's menu you are FF or RW'ing at.

On King Kong however, they have programmed the disc with it's own status bar so that when you FF or RW it shows a Tivo like bar at the bottom of the screen that shows your current location within the movie.

Apparently the resume feature for some strange reason was determined to not be a very high priority. However they did give you the ability on most (if not all) discs to create a personal book mark. So when you are going to shutdown your player you can hit the "B" (on the 360 add on controller) button and it will bookmark that exact spot on the disk. The next time you are playing the movie you can go into the bookmarks menu and then go back to that exact moment.

There are going to be alot of innovations during the next few years, and luckily most of them won't require all new hardware to take advantage of, hopefully.

As for the stuttering problem, you might want to scan this thread for the commands to clear your cache on the 360, it will clear patches for all your installed games though, but I believe it leaves save games intact etc. I haven't ever had the need to do this as King Kong played flawlessly on my system. Neither have I seen the lip synching problem that others have complained of as well. Guess I've been lucky for once, usually I'm the guy stuck with these problems that make a product all but useless to me.

Also I'm sure that if the HD-DVD Addon is as popular as I believe it to be, then Microsoft would be stupid to not assign considerable time into improving the interface and responding to user requests for new features, fixes etc. This is only the first Salvo in what may likely be an extended campaign against Blue Ray, but we shall see after the numbers come in for Christmas. If HD-DVD makes significant progress in sales due to the Microsoft Add on, (I've bought 6 HD-DVD titles in less than 2 weeks) then studios might finally let their cowardly ways pay off in a good way finally. We know how scared they are of losing money and if they smell more on the HD-DVD side they might just have to cave in and start releasing titles for HD-DVD. Once the first studio falls, the rest will go like dominoes, now we just have to wait for that first.

TimT

t_tringle

11-24-06, 09:56 AM

Hey Tringle...thanks. Seriously, instead of being a a--hole about telling somebody to STFA, you took what was probably 2.5 minutes out of your day to answer an easy (for you) question that everyone could benefit from. If everybody on this, and every other forum I frequent, was as straightforward, there probably wouldn't be 97+ pages to have to search on every topic. Thanks again.

Thanks for the kind words. I know sometimes people can be a little rude when they feel that someone isn't trying. But I also know that there has been alot of confusing information in this particular thread.

Although I'm by far no "Expert" on HD-DVD yet, I have been researching both technologies since they were being developed. I also work in computers and have been using DVD since the first add on kit for PC was available from "Creative" way back in 1996. I still remember the first time I watched a movie on DVD, it was pretty amazing. Back then the creative drive came with a copy of Wing Commander: Heart of the Tiger, which had all of the video scenes remastered to DVD quality. I thought that alot of games would start appearing on DVD but even now that's not the case, strange how things work out sometimes.

Anybody looking for the final answers to some of these questions might want to look at the FAQ thread for the 360 add on. It should contain most of these basic questions and their answers all in the first part of the thread so that you don't have to read through 27 pages to get the answer your looking for.

TimT

t_tringle

11-24-06, 10:04 AM

Thanks Tim, I appreciate the synopsis. I did try reading this thread and only made it to about page 14 and got tired of all the 1080i/1080p arguments. Honestly, I could care less. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

I guess that's one my of my beefs about dedicated threads and having to weed though them.

Anyways, it sounds like the addon would make a good addition to my setup. I am running an Epson Livingstation 47" RPLCD.

The more research I do, the more I'm convinced that HD-DVD will come out at top.

That it a concern however, as I don't need another minidisc or laser disc player collecting dust on my stand.

It's bad enough that I bought a TV that I can't even find a replacement bulb for anymore (2 years later):mad:

Thanks again
No problem,

On the TV Bulb problem you might want to post a thread over at the HDTV portion of the forum. I'm sure that if your set no longer has a bulb dedicated to it, it's probably because another one is compatible and the company simply doesn't want to make one specifically for your set. Someone in that thread should know, if any one would. Some really smart people lurk on these threads.

I too do not want to end up on the losing side of the HD-DVD battle, but the only way studios are going to see the light is if one of the formats starts making more money than the other. If both of them fail because of low interest we are likely going to see Downloads as the only option for HD Material, and believe me after spending time with Microsoft's download service the past two days, we do not want that being the only option.

So if you don't want to end up paying for each specific episode of a show you want to own, all of the fencesitters might want to get on board sooner than later. Otherwise you may find yourself being nickeled and dimed to death. Downloads are exactly what the studio really wants even if they can't get over the fright of putting someting on the internet that they want desperately to control so badly.

HD-DVD is our only hope at being able to control the HD Media in our Home Theaters at all. Blue Ray will not mandatorily support managed copy, and their extra Copy Protection will only further hinder any Fair Use that may one day be part of these formats.

TimT

UxiSXRD

11-24-06, 01:07 PM

But the way I understand it is that they developed HD-DVD to be extensible via the software side of the players, and not to depend so much on the hardware. This was so that they could keep adding new features without having to change firmwares everyday.

Sure, I get that reasoning, but this is clearly a defficiency that could be addressed on the software side of the hardware, as it were.

bkilian

11-24-06, 08:27 PM

Sure, I get that reasoning, but this is clearly a defficiency that could be addressed on the software side of the hardware, as it were.
Theoretically, yes. However, practically, it's not as easy.

HD DVD's are essentially programs running on a computer. If I compiled a list of running programs on windows machine (like a bookmark) and then just hit the power button, and then reopened those programs when the computer started up again, it would not be in the same state as when I shut it down. I didn't store enough information. My documents will be gone, the browser will be on the home page instead of the sites it's supposed to be on, etc etc.

HD DVD is exactly the same. If someone just took a bookmark when the player shutdown and then restored to that bookmark when it started up again, all the "programs" running on the disc would probably not be in the right state. We don't know if the IME was showing, for instance, or if the menu had stored it's settings correctly. You could even get into a state where you only ever see the menu loop again, no menu, and all your play and other keys are ignored. I'm sure you wouldn't like this.

To do it correctly, a player would have to do the same thing as what a PC does, essentially "hibernate", save all the program state to hard drive, and then load it again when you start up again. On the 360, this would be 512MB per "save" You'd fill up your 13GB just to save the position on 26 discs.

Now this limitation does not apply to the discs themselves. The disc authors get an event when the player shuts down. They can then save their state, and when they start up again they can check the state and resume if needed. (kinda like how some web browsers can remember your open pages when you close the app, and reload them when you open it again.)

Currently none of the hollywood titles have done this (even though it's a fairly simple piece of code). I'm sure they will start doing it when they realize how many people seem to be unable to sit through an entire movie in one go.

I have seen titles that implement this feature successfully, but they haven't been released, so I can't say any more.

tick221

11-24-06, 09:30 PM

This thread is a nightmare to try and find any thing with the current search engine for the forum.

Can someone please answer as plainly as possible if this player will play dvd-+r's and cdr's (svcd's etc, etc.

Thanks

Spoon

zep33

11-24-06, 09:32 PM

mine plays dvd-r's haven't tried a cdr though

Artmic

11-24-06, 10:27 PM

tick221

11-24-06, 10:28 PM

mine plays dvd-r's haven't tried a cdr though

Thanks for the quick reply, can anyone else chime in on the other formats?

kohi

11-24-06, 11:18 PM

Does anyone know anything about the 1080p update (Or lack of 1080p on the SONY XBR line of tvs?)

This is driving me nuts, no games at 1080p, no HD-DVD movies at 1080p becuase of that vga signal not being right

having similar issue with a sharp 37d90u... using a vga to dvi-i adapter.

sure would be nice if they fix that issue.

elvisahmed

11-25-06, 06:20 AM

Just Finished Watching Chronicles of Riddick on the Xbox Add on. Somehow the DD+ sounds a lot lower (5-7 db) than the DTS soundtrack on teh HD DVD is that normal?

aaronwt

11-25-06, 11:54 AM

It depends. Most discs seem to have the DTS track hotter than the DD. Usually the DTS track is a different mix than DD.

MSpeed6

11-25-06, 12:07 PM

also DD+ downconversion on the addon is not working properly with compressed dynamics.

Nox

11-25-06, 01:23 PM

elvisahmed

11-25-06, 02:10 PM

Is anyone using the 360 and HD-DVD with long cable extensions? Say, about 30ft or so? With VGA or Component hows the signal strength at that length? Any break-up or interference?

I'm building a dedicated home theater right now, and I'm going to have at least 30ft of cable from the component rack to the projector.

I was planing on using VGA out from the Xbox and extending it with DVI-I (with an adaptor, of course) to the projector. But I'm concerned the signal would degrade badly.

Anyone?
Well I have the HD DVD add on Hooked up with around that length of cable. First the Component from 360 goes to the receiver and then from receiver I have a 25ft cable (monster BTW as when I got it I was not part of the forum ;)) running to the Projector looks prisitine no issue whatsoever.

JonStatt

11-26-06, 04:10 AM

I have mine running through to a Sony 11HT projector using about 25ft of cable from the processor (Lexicon MC-12).

What I found, is that compared to the output of the Lexicon RT-10 DVD player, that the image was somehow softer and less punchy. With my first tests, the SD image actually looked better (albeit with a bit less detail in complex scenese)

After some calibration with the HD-DVD signal, which meant dropping the saturation a bit, increasing brightness and contrast a tad and, increasing a control I rarely touch, the sharpness control (to remedy the softness it was moved quite a bit, but obviously avoiding large halos appearing around objects), I finally ended up with an image that was obviously clearer than the SD DVD.

Obviously my projector is not a true HD projector, as the panels are 1366x768, but I should still see a marked difference. compared to SD images.

I think the gamma is different as well, which still makes the RT-10 output a little more punchy in certain scenes.

End story is that I did end up with a great performance that I am happy with, and it is clearly a step-up, but I did wonder if the Xbox component outputs do not "weather" as well over a long distance.

Jonathan

pospower

11-26-06, 11:58 AM

Anyone try the eagles hd dvd since the update does it play?

Hookster

11-26-06, 12:36 PM

Having just switched to componant imput I can say that the picture is twice as good. This applys to games but after watching KK I don't think I was even getting HD DVD via VGA. 1080i looks much better through my Samsung 61"1080p DPL.

FilmMixer

11-26-06, 01:54 PM

It depends. Most discs seem to have the DTS track hotter than the DD. Usually the DTS track is a different mix than DD.

You are wrong... the DTS track and the DD tracks all come from the same masters. Please stop spreading that kind of information without some sort of facts...

At the beginning of DTS-ES's life on DVD, there was a specail discrete 6.1 remix from stems for this master for "The Haunting"... since then, and to my knowledge, there haven't been any special mixes done for one format or the other... I've had films that we're remastered for home video with a disrecte center surround chaneel, but the 6.1 master was used to make the matrixed 5.1 track.. they don't just spent money remixing for one format or another... there is no point. That is not to say that the people who author the discs don't raise or lower the levels of the mix overall.. what you are hearing is the differences in codecs, bitrate, levels, etc... the content of the tracks is the same.

Also... sometimes the difference in the levels of the codecs comes from the value of the dialog normaalzation flag present on DD titles, and are actually not present in the encode.

R-Type

11-26-06, 07:10 PM

Dahlsim

11-26-06, 09:37 PM

Thanks for the quick reply, can anyone else chime in on the other formats?

With the latest firmware update the 360 is able to read both CDR, CDRW and DVD, DVDRW disks. File formats handled include .WMV and Mpeg video along with images and audio files.

The hd-dvd player is not required for this since the standard 12x DVD player can read these disks.

On a related note, does the system allow you to choose one resolution for games and another for hd movies so i could keep 720p for games? Thanks.

No. You have to switch the resolution manually.

UxiSXRD

11-26-06, 10:45 PM

To do it correctly, a player would have to do the same thing as what a PC does, essentially "hibernate", save all the program state to hard drive, and then load it again when you start up again. On the 360, this would be 512MB per "save" You'd fill up your 13GB just to save the position on 26 discs.

FWIW, I have VMware image "snapshots" of a Windows XP Pro install that are 12k for the nvram and 4k each for the vmsd and vmx, so call it 20k in addition to the baseline image (about 400MB). I'm sure Microsoft could be just as creative, but even the memory usage you list would be more than adequete.

Those of us running out of space could set the number down to the last 10 discs or so and have only 5GB or so taken for this. If/when a bigger hard drive comes out, we could up it if necessary. If you were really space conscious, you could go down to 3 or 0 (aka disable the "feature"), but it would be better than where we're at now. The 360 is in the unique position to offer it's HD-DVD add-on users a great feature that the dedicated players just don't have the hard-drive to match with.

And unfortunatley, Universal doesn't seem too inclined to change for the better from the thread we have going on it...

theroys88

11-26-06, 11:07 PM

Bought this drive last week and have sampled 4 movies so far. Those being King Kong. TLS,
Serenity and Riddick. So far King Kong is by far the biggest jump in PQ compared to the SD version. Now this compares with a Zenith dvb318 upscaling to 1080i to a Panny 34" HDTV.
TLS was the smallest improvement in PQ. Colors were richer and some improvement in backround detail was noted. Serenity looked good with better colors and improvement in details including faces. Riddick improvement was second to King Kong but again not a huge jump in PQ. Also this drive is not motion adaptive and this is obvious in KK and Riddick. I enjoy the improvement and also understand my 34" screen is not going to show as much difference as some of you guys bigger screens. I will say that the improvements I see are not going to lure the adverage consumer to buy a HD player that cost 400-1000 dollars and movies that cost 10 dollars more. I will buy only the movies that give me the most improvement and of course ones that I enjoy to watch. Thought 160 dollars plus a free movie was a no brainer and easily justified.

t_tringle

11-27-06, 12:15 AM

You are wrong... the DTS track and the DD tracks all come from the same masters. Please stop spreading that kind of information without some sort of facts...

what you are hearing is the differences in codecs, bitrate, levels, etc... the content of the tracks is the same.

Sorry, but I have to say something about your statements. There is no way on gods green earth that you can listen to a Dolby Digital track on a movie, and the DTS track on that same disc and tell me that they come from the exact same mix.

Maybe, just maybe that may be true on some movies, but for the most part it is in my opinion, (and I am sure someone knows for sure) that the DTS mixes are definitely done differently than the standard Dolby Digital tracks.

I have always picked versions of movies that contained the DTS track because I usually can be sure that the DTS audio is going to be a much more lively surround experience.

Someone here has got to back me up on this, there is no way that the same master is used for the majority of Dolby Digital as in the case with DTS tracks.

TimT

UxiSXRD

11-27-06, 02:35 AM

It doesn't really matter, given the detail FilmMixer provided. They obviously sound different. It's just that the substance is the same while the execution is noticibly different.

new04quest

11-27-06, 08:46 AM

I found this site for HD movies: HD MOVIES (http://www.bestprices.com/cgi-bin/vlink/hddvd_index.html)

I am wondering if there is a better site to order HD movies? What movies look a lot better on HD DVD than STD DVD? What HD movie do you recommend? Thanks.

Nox

11-27-06, 10:00 AM

http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=510528

I take it the rumors about the Nov 22 announcements from Microsoft from this thread were just that...RUMORS. No HDMI cable, no bigger harddrive.

Unless, anyone heard anything different?

thrustbucket

11-27-06, 10:10 AM

Sorry, but I have to say something about your statements. There is no way on gods green earth that you can listen to a Dolby Digital track on a movie, and the DTS track on that same disc and tell me that they come from the exact same mix.

Most film mixing nerds out there are going to argue what he is arguing. I don't know if they use different masters, but it's obvious that DTS tracks are set with higher volume and often better channel separation, anyone that would argue that is deaf.

Jack Texas

11-27-06, 12:16 PM

tcrews

11-27-06, 12:25 PM

I am SO CONFUSED by this thread.... after reading a a bakers dozen of pages.....

I just got my second HDTV, and it has a DVI-HDCP input, and I don't yet know if I should buy a PS3 plus Toshi HD-DVD, or an XBox 360 plus HD-DVD add on, to use with it????

My son would love to get an Xbox360 but, what is this crap about only a VGA connection supporting HD movie output??? I freakin thought that the HDCP crap was done for just this reason???

I am sure that I am just ignorant about these latest connections and resolutions they support... so please clear up my confusion if you can.... :)

If the TV has component inputs then the X360 + HD DVD drive will do fantastic for both gaming and HD DVD movie playback. The only thing you'll not have with this configuration is upscaling of plain DVD's.

I'm running my Xbox 360 + HD DVD on my 57" Hitachi through component and the video quality is perfect.

Tom Crews

BuGsArEtAsTy

11-27-06, 12:30 PM

I am SO CONFUSED by this thread.... after reading a a bakers dozen of pages.....

I just got my second HDTV, and it has a DVI-HDCP input, and I don't yet know if I should buy a PS3 plus Toshi HD-DVD, or an XBox 360 plus HD-DVD add on, to use with it????

My son would love to get an Xbox360 but, what is this crap about only a VGA connection supporting HD movie output??? I freakin thought that the HDCP crap was done for just this reason???

I am sure that I am just ignorant about these latest connections and resolutions they support... so please clear up my confusion if you can.... :)
The Xbox 360 does not support HDMI/DVI, so the comment about HDCP is irrelevant, since HDCP is not involved when making a component connection or a VGA connection. On the Xbox 360:

VGA 1080p: Games and movies
VGA 1080i: Games and movies

Component 1080p: Games and movies
Component 1080i: Movies only.

ie. By going with component you only lose out on 1080p movie support, but for most people that's not a big deal because only rare TVs will support 1080p over component anyway.

Oh and movies at 1080i look fabulous. :)

modiGTI

11-27-06, 12:37 PM

BuGsArEtAsTy

11-27-06, 12:52 PM

Everytime I read through threads in here I always want to buy things...well I went out and bougth the add-on last night thanks to this thread. :p

I'm very impressed with the PQ so far, especially KK. Though, I'm a little disappointed with TLS in some scenes. There are times when it gets very grainy, especially darker shots.
Grain? Are you sure that's not part of the original film source? If it is in the original film source, then I'm glad that HD DVD isn't filtering it out.

modiGTI

11-27-06, 02:00 PM

Grain? Are you sure that's not part of the original film source? If it is in the original film source, then I'm glad that HD DVD isn't filtering it out.

What I mean is, when I was viewing darker shots, I could see a bit of white snow effect in the background.

DonQijote

11-27-06, 05:42 PM

Anyone try the eagles hd dvd since the update does it play?

The Eagles Farewell II hd dvd plays fine after the recent Xbox/add-on update. You can navigate and select from the menus without experiencing any of the initial freeze problems.

Side note: The sound is considerably better on the HD DVD vs the same Eagles SD DVD version. Perhaps one of the best-sounding concerts on disc.

shanewalker

11-27-06, 06:14 PM

Please forgive me if this was posted earlier in the thread, but the search tool and a 98 page thread don't make for easy finding of information.

I have a 37'' LCD which will take both 1080i and 720p, and has the ubiquitous 1360*768 lcd resolution. I currently have my 360 set to output at 720p because its rendered that way anyway and the 60fps seems more appealing for games. My question is will HD-DVD's look better in 1080i mode since the source is 1080 and the tv can cut out pixels rather than scale up like it does with 720p? This way the image would only be scaled once from a higher resolution to a lower one, as opposed to 1080=>720 in the 360 and then 720=>768 in the tv. If this makes sense let me know or correct me if I am drastically wrong.

On a related note, does the system allow you to choose one resolution for games and another for hd movies so i could keep 720p for games? Thanks.

-Ryan-

Just got my 360 w/ HD-DVD add-on hooked up last night. Nice. My Sony 55" RP LCD HD set uses the same type of LCD panels. I did tests w/ various HD sources, including w/ my DVDO scaler and the 360 and it looks better being fed a 1080i signal vs. a 720p. I can definitely see more detail at 1080i...it's too bad I can't get true 1:1 pixel mapping because of the set's internal scaling, but I've found that it's all about finding the sweet spot in a world of compromises.

Haven't watched KK all the way through, but I was impressed w/ the HD-DVD player's overall A/V quality. I watch a LOT of HD via satellite and D-VHS and it looked and sounded great.

Now I just need to figure out the console interface for the HD-DVD drive...simple thing, but I couldn't get it to eject the disc, only open the tray to load. Hmm...but I'm a newbie, so...

jheart

11-28-06, 10:14 AM

Picked up the Add-On last week and very impressed ! More than I thought I would be. King Kong looks fabulous, Batman Begins, U2 Rattle&Hum and U571 all look great !!!
I only wish the Add-On had the 5-channel outputs so I can get TrueHD sound.

Thanks so much to everyone for all of your input and research.

Jim.

Jack Texas

11-28-06, 11:28 AM

BuGsArEtAsTy

11-28-06, 11:34 AM

Thank you very much to the couple of folks who answered my questions... I appreciate it very much!

I think what I read, if correct, means that the lack of a DVI connection on the XBox and a lack of VGA input on my gameroom HDTV means the Xbox 360 isn't the gaming system for me - Because, if I understand correctly from what I read,
Using component connections to my HDTV will NOT allow me to:
- watch SD DVDs upconverted to 1080i
- allow me to play XBox games in HD(1080i)?
What in the world was MS thinking?????
Are those statements indeed correct?
Do you mean Xbox 360 games? If so, of course you can play them in 1080i.

You just can't upconvert DVDs to 1080i over component. What was MS thinking? MS was thinking they can't break the law, because the copyright agreements do not allow DVD upscaling to 1080i over component.

Jack Texas

11-28-06, 11:58 AM

Thanks Bugs for clearing up my confusion on the max res for Xbox games over component.

So, if I understand it, to get everything in 1080i, I need to buy an XBox360, the HD-DVD add-on and the Oppo 371H. Or, an XBox 360 and a Toshi HD-DVD player.

As for the no upconversion of SD-DVDs over analog... as I understand it, that's not a law but a business agreement made by the DVD consortium between content owners and equipment manufacturers. There have been a few SD DVD players by Zenith, Samsung and Momitsu which have offered upconversion via component without any hacking or mods to the unit. Although I can't remember what specifically the no analog upconversion is tied to... it might be the CSS key itself, and therefore could potentially be prosecuted under the DMCA... but that stuff is a whole nother thread. ;)

In the meantime, thanks again for all the help!

BuGsArEtAsTy

11-28-06, 12:04 PM

Deezul

11-28-06, 12:05 PM

Thank you very much to the couple of folks who answered my questions... I appreciate it very much!

I think what I read, if correct, means that the lack of a DVI connection on the XBox and a lack of VGA input on my gameroom HDTV means the Xbox 360 isn't the gaming system for me - Because, if I understand correctly from what I read,
Using component connections to my HDTV will NOT allow me to:
- watch SD DVDs upconverted to 1080i
- allow me to play XBox games in HD(1080i)?
What in the world was MS thinking?????
Are those statements indeed correct?

Just a quick point about the PS3 - it has no scaler right now so if the game isn't coded for 1080i and that's the only HD resolution your TV does, the PS3 will downres to 480p. No HD gaming unless you have a 720p or 1080p TV. That should sway a few folks with older HD sets. I have two Mitsubishi rear projection TVs that only do 1080i, so I'm glad I made the right decision and went with the 360!

Deezul

Jack Texas

11-28-06, 12:06 PM

The Toshiba and Oppo won't upscale over component either. However, it will over HDMI. (Not sure about the Oppo, but that's my understanding with that one too.) That is correct. I would have the XBox 360 hooked up via component but the Oppo/Toshi would be connected via DVI-HDCP.

Thanks again!

Jack Texas

11-28-06, 12:08 PM

Just a quick point about the PS3 - it has no scaler right now so if the game isn't coded for 1080i and that's the only HD resolution your TV does, the PS3 will downres to 480p. No HD gaming unless you have a 720p or 1080p TV.
Wow... great point! Both my HDTVs are 1080i only and will not accept 720p. Thanks for the tip!

joe221

11-28-06, 05:10 PM

Joe.. it is actually part of the HD DVD spec that players must have on board persistent memory. This is not only for bookmarks, but resume points, new commentary that can be downloaded from the web, etc.... they can even download new trailers from the web so that when you put in a favorite title, you don't have to look at the same trailer every time you boot it up...

If a player has an HD DVD logo on it, it is madatory to have persistent memory on board...

Given this drive must be connected to a 360 (or eventually a PC) wouldn't that qualify as it's storage device??

joe221

11-28-06, 05:19 PM

Same here. The MS component cables work great. Set the XBOX 360 to 1080i though for watching movies.

I did a back and forth test and found 720p just fine. What do you see as different? My set is native 720p anyway?

joe221

11-28-06, 05:49 PM

Sorry, but I have to say something about your statements. There is no way on gods green earth that you can listen to a Dolby Digital track on a movie, and the DTS track on that same disc and tell me that they come from the exact same mix.

Maybe, just maybe that may be true on some movies, but for the most part it is in my opinion, (and I am sure someone knows for sure) that the DTS mixes are definitely done differently than the standard Dolby Digital tracks.

I have always picked versions of movies that contained the DTS track because I usually can be sure that the DTS audio is going to be a much more lively surround experience.

Someone here has got to back me up on this, there is no way that the same master is used for the majority of Dolby Digital as in the case with DTS tracks.

TimT

See you at the DTS demo room at CES in January! There is no finer experience anywhere I know of! Generally the room has about half a million in equipment!
They will tell you it all comes from the same mix,,,NOT.
;)

Da Rafsta

11-28-06, 10:19 PM

zoro

11-28-06, 11:48 PM

Can we get 1080p with sony xbr2 rptv?

joe221

11-29-06, 12:32 AM

Can we get 1080p with sony xbr2 rptv?

That's the 2nd generation SXRD, right? It should. The first one, I believe, had no 1080p inputs.

trgraphics

11-29-06, 01:16 AM

Currently, via component....the HD-DVDs are playing at 1920X1080i-60Hz.

If I were to switch up to the 360's VGA HD AV cable, connecting it to my Samsung HL-S6187, which supports VGA connection to it, would this kick up the output to 1920X1080p-60Hz?

It does on my Samsung. However, there is no p designation, its 1920x1080 60Hz. The "i" is not there through vga.

I actually prefer the vga input over the compoent on my set.

Quikzilver

11-29-06, 01:32 AM

Currently, via component....the HD-DVDs are playing at 1920X1080i-60Hz.

If I were to switch up to the 360's VGA HD AV cable, connecting it to my Samsung HL-S6187, which supports VGA connection to it, would this kick up the output to 1920X1080p-60Hz?

Yes, it will. Like TR said it doesn't have the p designation but it also doesn't have the i either. I have a Samsung HLS5687W and the 360 HD-DVD drive hooked up via VGA. I am very happy with it.

joe221

11-29-06, 02:33 AM

It does on my Samsung. However, there is no p designation, its 1920x1080 60Hz. The "i" is not there through vga.

I actually prefer the vga input over the compoent on my set.

the second number after the "x" is the P designator. ie x720 or x768 is 720p. x1080 is 1080p. x480 is ED or 480p.

Da Rafsta

11-29-06, 12:37 PM

It does on my Samsung. However, there is no p designation, its 1920x1080 60Hz. The "i" is not there through vga.

I actually prefer the vga input over the compoent on my set.
Good stuff! Superman Returns and King Kong in 1080i in HD-DVD is great...but I'm not at ease until it's 1080p.

Did you happen to have a chance to notice a difference in a movie between 1080i and 1080p? I can't imagine the difference being mind blowing, but it should at least have some noticeable improvement, is this so?

jthomaslambert

11-29-06, 01:01 PM

Good stuff! Superman Returns and King Kong in 1080i in HD-DVD is great...but I'm not at ease until it's 1080p.

Did you happen to have a chance to notice a difference in a movie between 1080i and 1080p? I can't imagine the difference being mind blowing, but it should at least have some noticeable improvement, is this so?

Many many studies done lately that suggest no visible difference between 1080i and 1080p. Not to say there isn't one--just that the average human eye can't detect it. These are along the lines that suggest that there is no (human) visible difference between 720 and 1080 until at least 50".

trgraphics

11-29-06, 01:30 PM

thrustbucket

11-29-06, 01:54 PM

dasimpse

11-29-06, 02:01 PM

Is it worth getting the HD DVD drive to run at 1080i on a samsung 32 inch HD TV, i sit about 2 metres from the screen and am wanting to get a better bigger tv later next year. So basically does anyone know if i will defo see a difference over standard DVD through component on my 360?

would you advise to get it or not bother?

thank you so much for the help, im new here and really appreciate any help. Thanks guys

Da Rafsta

11-29-06, 02:23 PM

bkilian

11-29-06, 03:01 PM

Good stuff! Superman Returns and King Kong in 1080i in HD-DVD is great...but I'm not at ease until it's 1080p.

Did you happen to have a chance to notice a difference in a movie between 1080i and 1080p? I can't imagine the difference being mind blowing, but it should at least have some noticeable improvement, is this so?
Aah yes, the marketing droids have once again succeeded at their nefarious purpose.

Being that the content is stored at 1080p24, if you see any difference between 1080i and 1080p, there is something wrong with your TV set, or your component inputs. Some people prefer the VGA input on their set, and some people prefer the component input, either way, 1080i or 1080p60, you're going to get 24 full frames a second.

Now if it output at 1080p48 or 1080p72, that would be something to write home about.

Da Rafsta

11-29-06, 03:22 PM

Aah yes, the marketing droids have once again succeeded at their nefarious purpose.

Being that the content is stored at 1080p24, if you see any difference between 1080i and 1080p, there is something wrong with your TV set, or your component inputs. Some people prefer the VGA input on their set, and some people prefer the component input, either way, 1080i or 1080p60, you're going to get 24 full frames a second.

Now if it output at 1080p48 or 1080p72, that would be something to write home about.

LOL...my noobness gets the best of me. Please forgive my ignorance. How or what would I come to know unless I asked? ;)

Dahlsim

11-29-06, 04:26 PM

So if I have a 720p projector, what is the general consensus out there for how I should have the XBox set? Someone told me that it's better to set it to 1080i and let the projector downscale it, is that the best thing to do? (Something about the scaler in most projectors often being better than letting the Xbox scale the 1080 material to 720.)

I percieve a slightly sharper image on my 720p projector by letting it scale down the 1080p (360 VGA) to 720p rather than letting the 360 output the 720p. Just slight though.

MC FLMJIG

11-29-06, 04:49 PM

Yay. It works. I was obviously posting in the wrong thread b4!

I read a decent amount of pages but It's pretty much the same thing. Success and some complaints.

I can't find much info

What are the minimums so far needed for the HD DVD player?
Hardware? (people said it worked but not many posted what they had)

Software?
I saw Nero 7 + InCD.
PowerDVD 6.5.
Anything else?

So far some can play even though they don't have HDCP components... We don't need then since DVD was built differently? Or we need but can get around by VGA?

What are requirements for the TV?

Please and thanks in advance.

kgronseth

11-29-06, 04:51 PM

Da Rafsta

11-29-06, 05:11 PM

Is there something obvious I can try to see a difference in PQ? Would the VGA cables be better (I will try them tonight). Is Batman Begins a bad choice to try and compare? I also got Troy and Last Samurai HD-DVD from Netflix today and will compare them to my SD versions tonight.

Please do post the results.

Bookhouseboy

11-29-06, 05:11 PM

thrustbucket

11-29-06, 05:38 PM

I'm sorry, but I don't have the time to read every single reply in this thread and I haven't found the answer to my question, so here goes...

Is the 360 supposed to make noise while playing HD DVD's?

I thought the HD DVD add on was supposed to be silent and that the 360 would be much more quiet when playing HD DVD's compared to playing games.

Am I doing something wrong, or is it something I just have to live with?

It doesn't ruin the movies, but I wish it would make less noise.

I hope there's nothing wrong with my 360.

Your 360 isn't going to be any quieter than any other time it's sitting there with it's DVD tray empty. That is just the fans inside. Seeing how Microsoft has said that HD-DVD decoding pushes the Xbox harder than just about any game at any time, I'm not sure why the fans would spin down or get quieter (assuming they could)

The HD-DVD player probably does make some noise, but it's very quiet compared to the 360.

t_tringle

11-29-06, 05:53 PM

Many many studies done lately that suggest no visible difference between 1080i and 1080p. Not to say there isn't one--just that the average human eye can't detect it. These are along the lines that suggest that there is no (human) visible difference between 720 and 1080 until at least 50".

I would say that the reason that some suggest that you can't see a real difference between 720 and 1080 until '50, is more likely because depending on the set it may only have resolution "between" 720 and 1080.

Alot of sets out there have the native resolution below true 1920x1080, which means even if the set takes in a 1080 resolution, it may not display it properly. So then you have yet another variable to throw into the mix which is the quality of the scaler, in addition to (resolution of the set, quality of the output device, eye of the beholder) etc.

There are alot of people out there ( present company excluded of course) that are really and truely misinformed about HD and more importantly the native resolution of their display devices.

TimT

t_tringle

11-29-06, 05:56 PM

See you at the DTS demo room at CES in January! There is no finer experience anywhere I know of! Generally the room has about half a million in equipment!
They will tell you it all comes from the same mix,,,NOT.
;)

Man I wish I was in this type of business so I could go to CES. But unfortunately for now this is just a hobby/obsession. I should turn it into a job though. Anybody in illinois want to help out an avid Home Theater enthusiast/computer expert (MCSE, etc)

:)

TimT

zoro

11-29-06, 06:05 PM

That's the 2nd generation SXRD, right? It should. The first one, I believe, had no 1080p inputs.

yes it is! and has VGA input too!

UxiSXRD

11-29-06, 06:38 PM

Niether generation of SXRD will take 1080p via component or display 1920 x 1080 via VGA (the VGA is gimped by cropping, unfortuantely). The XBR2 and A2000 will take 1080p via HDMI.

MC FLMJIG

11-29-06, 06:39 PM

I got both threads mixed up b4

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=748426&page=1&pp=30

There is a lot of success there.

ddz

11-29-06, 06:46 PM

I bought the 360 addon and have a Panasonic AE900 front projector and I am trying to make sure I have everything setup correctly. The reason I am asking is because I tried comparing Batman Begins HD-DVD to an upconverted SD-DVD Batman Begins and both my wife and I didn't see a huge difference in the picture quality.

Display: Panasonic AE900 with 106" Greywolf screen
Xbox 360 HD DVD: connected via component cables at both 720p and 1080i (tried both settings)
Sony NS75H upconverting DVD player: connected HDMI
Calibration: Tried it myself with the Digital Video Essenstials and made several adjustments based on video tests.

I had both the HD and SD upconvert Batman Begins movies playing at the same time and at about the same spot in the movie. I continually switched video sources between the two and had a real hard time determining which was HD and which was SD upconvert and tried different parts of the movies. I tried switching the Xbox output to both 720p and 1080i and didn't see much of a difference. I had my wife try to tell me which looked and better and more often than not she picked the SD upconvert source as the better one.

I have the Xbox 360 VGA cables and haven't tried them with HD-DVD yet, I tried them initially with just games but found the component cables more to my liking.

Is there something obvious I can try to see a difference in PQ? Would the VGA cables be better (I will try them tonight). Is Batman Begins a bad choice to try and compare? I also got Troy and Last Samurai HD-DVD from Netflix today and will compare them to my SD versions tonight.

Thanks for any help, I really want to this work with the HD-DVD!

You are coming to the same conclusion that I have with my setup. I first purchased a tosh HD-A1 and hooked it up via hdmi to my tosh 50hp66. I was using a tosh vcr/dvd upconverting combo on hdmi. I purchased Troy for a test because I already had the sd version. It was hard for me to justify the HD-A1 because I didn't see much of a difference. I then got the 360 addon and hooked it, running thru my existing component connection. While it looked as good as the HD-A1, it just didn't grab me, basically not much better. I bought the RGB cable for my xbox 360, set it to 1360x768, and found that connection to be even worse, as some others have found on their displays. Games looked great, but Troy didn't. My tosh display didn't have enough controls available to make it look good. The odd thing is that my pc via rgb looks great, 1:1 pixel mapping at 1360x768. But I do know that dvd playback from my pc is not very good, the tosh vcr/dvd unit looked better thru hdmi upscaled to 1080i.

Finally I saw what I was looking for by connecting my HD-A1 via component. The difference was getting more of a 3D look to the picture, there was actually some depth to it that I hadn't seen before. I went thru all my devices with the same scenes and decided that, with Troy in my setup, the best hd dvd setup was thru component with my HD-A1. Then the xbox hd dvd drive thru component was the next best, about the same as my HD-A1 thru hdmi. And close behind that was my tosh vcr/dvd upconverted over hdmi. I don't have the sd version of KK, but with the hd version I confirmed the same feelings I got with Troy.

As you can probably gather by reading all the posts in the different xbox addon threads, and blend in info from the HD-A1 threads, you can only tell how good it's going to be on your setup once you hook it up and try all the possible connection and scaling possibilities available to you. The only input you can really bank on with this device is from someone here who has the same display device as you. I hope you get that input!

Yumbo

11-29-06, 07:59 PM

ok,

for anyone who has a panasonic L500 projector - do you get a darker picture?
It wasn't as stark a difference (darker) on the 50" plasma (Panasonic).

Resolution is 768 projected, and 1028 plasmaed.

Do I need to re-calibrate the projector?

Both tests were compared against SD disc of King Kong.

ps. where's the best online place to get a replacement bulb for L500?

thanks

Bookhouseboy

11-29-06, 08:23 PM

Your 360 isn't going to be any quieter than any other time it's sitting there with it's DVD tray empty. That is just the fans inside. Seeing how Microsoft has said that HD-DVD decoding pushes the Xbox harder than just about any game at any time, I'm not sure why the fans would spin down or get quieter (assuming they could)

The HD-DVD player probably does make some noise, but it's very quiet compared to the 360.

Thank you for clearing that up.
I must have confused the add on being quiet with the 360. Anyways, it's not a big problem, just wanted to make sure there wasn't anything wrong with my 360.

On a different note, the add on performs really well. I don't have anything to compare it with, but watching "King Kong" and "MI:3" in HD gave me a few shivers. Too bad watching SD DVD's will never be the same. :)

Gravatar

11-29-06, 08:29 PM

I'm thinking if getting the Xbox360 HD-DVD player to connect to my Bravia XBR2 1080p TV. The problem is, I already have my PC hooked up to the TV's VGA input.

Would I be better off using a KVM switch to switch between the Xbox360 and the PC on the VGA port? Or should I just leave the Xbox connected to the component input? Would the KVM switch degrade the picture quality?

ericwarren

11-29-06, 08:42 PM

Hi Everyone.
Just hooked up my hd-dvd player to my xbox 360.
I have a panny 50"hd plasma (consumer version).
It looks great, but one question regarding King Kong and the video size:
-the intro/title screen is perfect size, filling up the entire screen. when the actual movie begins the picture has black "bars" on the upper and lower portion of the screen, thus not fully taking advantage of the full screen size.
I have it set to 1080i.

Any idea how to correct this?

thanks in advance,
Eric

Nino1919

11-29-06, 08:47 PM

the movie was shot in a 2.40 aspect ratio. The black bars are suppose to be there. if you have the option to zoom, you can try that.

Bookhouseboy

11-29-06, 09:09 PM

ericwarren:
The bars are a part of the movie if you will, it's just a different kind of Widescreen. To fill the whole screen, you have to watch a 1.78:1 movie. Most movies today, at least big action movies, are shot in 2.35:1 or in 2.40:1 like "King Kong". Zooming as the previous poster suggests would only cause picture information to get lost. You'll have to live with the black bars, sorry. :)

ericwarren

11-29-06, 10:08 PM

thanks....appreciate the info.
will learn to deal with it now that i know it is normal

kgronseth

11-29-06, 10:24 PM

Please do post the results.

Ok, I've spent a few hours tonight trying a few things out. Keep in my mind I am just an average guy when it comes to this type of technology. So this is just a simple comaparison of what I saw on my display with my eyes.

My Setup
Display: Panasonic AE900 front projector 720p
Xbox 360 HD-DVD addon: via VGA and Component
Sony NS75H upconverting DVD: via HDMI
Calibration: Tried myself with Digital Video Essentials and made some adjustments (I calibrated separately for Component, VGA and HDMI and saved the settings)

I got Troy and Last Samurai from Netflix today and did a comparison between HD via Component vs SD upconvert and HD via VGA vs upconvert on my projector.

HD via Component vs SD upconvert: for both Troy and Last Samurai
My results were pretty similar to my Batman Begins results, I could see a little better PQ in the HD vs the SD upconvert, but the HD still had some noise and both HD and SD seemed a little soft to me... I would have been happy with either one as an option. I tried various scenes while comparing them.

HD via VGA vs SD upconvert: for both Troy and Last Samurai
My results for this comparison fared better for the HD. I did notice a more crisp and sharp picture for HD vs the SD upconvert. However, as is commonly heard, I did feel the colors were not quite a vibrant as with Component. But I think the calibration I did, did help the colors with the VGA.

Conclusion
I am going to try out a few more movies before I make a final decision, but I think if I am going to keep the HD-DVD, I will be using the VGA connection (However, I will probably try Component with some other movies as well). Maybe there is still something I am missing or something not quite right (which could very well be the case), but I was hoping for a little more noticable difference in PQ for HD-DVD vs SD upconvert with my setup. My wife watched some of my comparisons and with her not knowing which was which she still picked the SD upconvert about 75% of the time :(

I did see the thread in the HD Software forum that discusses HD movie PQ and give them tiers and I noticed all 3 movies I watched so far (that I also own the SD version) were in tier 2, so I will make sure to get the next few from tier 1 and see how that goes. If anyone sees something I could do differently, any input is appreciated.

new04quest

11-29-06, 11:13 PM

Well, I watched The Italian Job w/ component video connections earlier. The PQ is great. I'll order this movie from BUY.COM (http://www.buy.com/retail/searchresults.asp?ra=mr07%2Cfi01%2Cre01%2Cmr04%2Cmr01%2Cp01% 2Czc01%2Cdc01%2Caw01%2Cra01%2Cst01&alpha2=&alpha=&csel=mr04&mfgid=0&orderby=0&pagereq=1&pas=mr07%2Cfi01%2Cmr04%2Czc01%2Cdc01%2Caw01%2Cra01%2Cst01&qu=&querytype=dvd_hd&search_store=4&nt=&cscat=1&showcats=0&als=-1&loc=322&display=col&sku=&mr07=&fi01=&mr04=133&zc01=&dc01=&aw01=&ra01=&st01=). It is the best deal on the net. It is $20 off from Google for every $50. It work out perfectly. I purchases 3 movies at a time.

kgronseth

11-29-06, 11:25 PM

gremmy

11-30-06, 12:59 AM

I'm not saying the PQ is bad, I think it is very good, if I only saw 1 option of of the xbox 360 HD-DVD with component/vga or SD upconvert, I would still be in awe of the picture and I love watching movies on my big screen regardless of which type of dvd it is. But comparing the types, I was hoping for a bigger difference in what I saw on my setup when compared the HD-DVD vs SD upconverted. I am just trying to decide if the investment is worth for my system and setup.

Interesting results. My friend has the same projector as you, so it's interesting to hear that the PQ on your set-up isn't much better than DVD.

I have a Sony Pearl (VPL-VW50) and the difference between HD-DVD and DVD is HUGE. It's so HUGE, in fact, that my wife keeps asking me why we don't rent movies anymore from Blockbuster, and I have to tell her that I'm just not interested in watching standard definition DVD anymore. It's somewhat painful on my 7 foot wide screen.

I just got a subscription to BlockBuster's online service and have my first 3 HD-DVD rentals arriving in time for the weekend. So it's HD Sattelite and HD Discs only for me from now on.

Part of the issue might be that your display is only 720p, while the data on the disc is optimally displayed on a 1080p display like mine. Another issue might have something to do with the particular scaling involved, either in the player or the projector.

My feeling is that 720p via component is probably your best bet, but anything is worth trying.

You know, something else to consider is that some people just aren't very sensitive to picture quality issues, for whatever reason. My wife noticed the huge difference in PQ on my display, which means it was VERY noticeable to anyone with decent eyesight. However, on a different set-up, the benefits might not be as dramatic, for whatever reason. And as a result, the sensitivity of the viewer might become more of a factor.

Just think of all the Joe Six Packs in the world who think they are watching HD when, in fact, their cable boxes are hooked up via composite cable. Another case in point is my wife, who cannot detect color uniformity problems unless they are severe. I can point to a "greenish" section of screen and a "pinkish" section of screen and she cannot see it no matter what I do.

wallinski72

11-30-06, 01:21 AM

Is it possible to make the 360 vga cable longer, is it alright to use some sort of connector and extension cable?
I am having a hard time making it reach the projector in the ceiling :)

BuGsArEtAsTy

11-30-06, 01:48 AM

Is it possible to make the 360 vga cable longer, is it alright to use some sort of connector and extension cable?
I am having a hard time making it reach the projector in the ceiling :)
You can get VGA extension cables, but make sure it is VERY good quality.

phantomhitman

11-30-06, 07:47 AM

woot!! I could not get to work today to confirm it fast enough!
kdl-46xbr2
http://members.toast.net/tmtackett/photos/tv/1080-dashboardfixed.jpg
http://members.toast.net/tmtackett/photos/tv/1080-tvfixed.jpg
It is all working good now. It seemed some of the color loss issue was fixed as well, but I could not fully test out that theory this morning. Great news for xbr2 owners!!!

tbone4690

11-30-06, 08:07 AM

There is a update out now that will the 1080p problems Major Nelson has posted about it.

Dashboard Update (aka the 1080p fix)

The next time you sign into Xbox Live, you’ll be prompted for a dashboard update. The update contains:

* Improved support for HD video output over VGA, including 1080p resolution
* Improved plug and play performance for wired headsets when being used with wireless controllers
* Changes made to recently played games list to improve accuracy

This update is being rolled out across the world, so you may not get it exactly at this moment, so be patient.

I told you we'd fix it ;)

This should make a few happy.

phantomhitman

11-30-06, 08:20 AM

I told you we'd fix it ;)
By we do you mean the tons of people complaining about it or do you actually work for the MS engineering team? If it is the latter I want to send you a quick question via pm, thanks.

new04quest

11-30-06, 08:54 AM

Does anyone have any luck connecting Xbox 360 to HTPC using Belkin Pre-N router? Xbox 360 Live Connection Methods (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/support/connecttolive/xbox360/connectionmethods/intro.htm)

I tried to connect my Xbox 360 to my HP-DEC using Belkin Pre-N router, but it didn't work very well. I couldn't find any firmware update for Belkin Pre-n router on Xbox.com. It would be nice to make it work. I saved a lot of standard definition DVD movies and songs on my HP-DEC. HP-DEC (http://www.windowsfordevices.com/articles/AT8330067540.html)

I have no problem get the Xbox 360 connects to the Internet for Xbox Live, but I had a lot of troubles getting the Window Media Center Extender to work. Media Center Extender (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/mediacenter/extender/setup/ssviewer.mspx)

I have three HTPC in the house and I never have any trouble networking them through Belkin Pre-N. This is the first time I associates w/ game console. I got it for the HD content. I don't think I use it for game. Any pointer would be appreciated..!