To all those doubting the improvement in the new formats, go demo a player connected to a large screen. I have a 46" lcd and I sit at 8' away. I definitely notice a difference in HD-DVD and plan to support the format but I also have realized how good a great transfer of a standard DVD looks on an upconverting set.

Now, my buddy has a 65" JVC LCOS and the difference is A LOT more dramatic as these upconverted discs lose a lot of their gusto going that big and the HD-DVDs look that much more amazing. I could just imagine how much better they would look on a 100+ screen.

woot!! I could not get to work today to confirm it fast enough!
kdl-46xbr2
http://members.toast.net/tmtackett/photos/tv/1080-dashboardfixed.jpg
http://members.toast.net/tmtackett/photos/tv/1080-tvfixed.jpg
It is all working good now. It seemed some of the color loss issue was fixed as well, but I could not fully test out that theory this morning. Great news for xbr2 owners!!!

phantomhitman,

Is that a vga to dvi connection? If so, what adapter are you using?

Thanks...

Interesting results.

Part of the issue might be that your display is only 720p, while the data on the disc is optimally displayed on a 1080p display like mine. Another issue might have something to do with the particular scaling involved, either in the player or the projector.


Very interesting. I've been really itching to get the HD-DVD 360 add-on, my wife doesn't see the point. I also have a AE900 720p front projector.

Watching a reference SD-DVD like Sin City, I can't help but think: "How much better can it be?" And from the above poster's experience, it seems with my projector, the answer is: not much. I guess the wife is right, there is no point in upgrading at the moment, I'll spend the money on better speakers.

Right now (thanks to this discussion) my plan is to wait a couple of years, until the HD format wars have settled down, and the HD-DVD and/or Blu-Ray players are dirt cheap, and the 1080P projectors are also inexpensive.

Also, with my nice sound system, the Lossless Audio of the new formats is a big pull for me. The 360 add-on doesn't allow that. :(

Can we get a link on this? Also, since when was this update put up via Xbox Live?


www.majornelson.com

Up this morning, everyone is work so not many people to test it out.

www.majornelson.com

Up this morning, everyone is work so not many people to test it out.

The update does not appear to have resolved the vga 1080p issue on this model. Maybe they should make the 1920 x 1080 setting more granular; i.e. let you pick the frequency. :rolleyes:

For all people with sony xbr2 1080p LCDs and Xbox 360 VGA connection:-

1- So after the new patch today is everything working well ?

2- What about the colors using VGA is it better than component's ( is the colors washed out) ?

3- what about HD-dvd is it better using VGA ?

( currently I have the previous Sony LCD tv the one with 1366 x 768 when I use the vga connecten I get washed out colors it is much worse than the component in everything , and i will buy the sony kdl-46xbr2 soon so I hope to get better results with it )

Ok, here is my clarifications:
My pics are using strictly the vga cable, NO adapter. The xbr2s are officially fixed if you want to use the vga cable. I want to say they fixed the washed out colors as well BUT I will not confirm that until I get back home this afternoon. It was early this morning when I took those pics ;)

For anyone asking about the vga cable and hd-dvd player. The only way to get 1080p is to use the vga cable, there are no other options. You also have to use the vga cable if you want to upconvert standard dvds.

HD-DVD is better than dvd, well worth the upgrade. Even while being forced to use 1080i (via component) I noticed a upgrade in image quality. When I get home today I will finally to get to see 1080p movies....I cannot wait.

Thanks Phantom What hardware is ur PC?

I think we should post our hardware (PC wise) to see what is working best.

What are you talking about (pc harware?) I do not have my pc hooked up to my tv, I was showing that my xbox now does 1080p over vga with the new update.

What are you talking about (pc harware?) I do not have my pc hooked up to my tv, I was showing that my xbox now does 1080p over vga with the new update.
but it should have done 1080p over VGA even before the update. Well...I take that back, not unless you had an SXRD, which you probably do.


Perhaps you can answer the question... Do the colors looked washed out in 1080p over VGA post-update?

probably dont...
I have a xbr2 and it never displayed 1080p with the 360. The new patch this morning fixed that though, and I will report back later about the washed out colors.

Sorry if some of you thought I work for MS I don't I was just posting this form Major Nelson I don't have my five posts to put links thats why sorry.

I just got the add on: Wow just WOW, I never thought HD could look so good! Just got Batman Begins, The Searchers and of course King Kong! :) My display is 1024*1080 plasma from Hitachi and it looks really great with the HD DVD add on.

I have no issues with component 1080i output! Razor sharp... :)

So thank you Amir and all the xbox gang - now, bring on dts.. :)

I just got the add on: Wow just WOW, I never thought HD could look so good! Just got Batman Begins, The Searchers and of course King Kong! :) My display is 1024*1080 plasma from Hitachi and it looks really great with the HD DVD add on.

I have no issues with component 1080i output! Razor sharp... :)

So thank you Amir and all the xbox gang - now, bring on dts.. :)
Now bring on HDMI!!!!!!!

> Now bring on HDMI!!!!!!!

Sure, when they have a new Xbox 360 hardware design (probably late 2007).

Hong.

I'm asking this again since the last time I asked this, it was ignored (surprise).

So to be clear about the update, should HD-DVD playback over VGA be on par with Component? On my Bravia KLV-S26A10, the color was VERY muted, but if this fixes that problem, I will switch permanently tonight.

I noticed that the dashboard is MUCH faster!!!
Your gamertag logs in before the dash now. No more loading times!
And now downloads are faster too!

Now (Amir?), get ANYONE with intuition to allow loop scrolling on the dash, PLEASE?
It is pretty dopey having to scroll from top to bottom EVERYTIME, on a long list.

This should have been done on first update!

...and how about coming to Fiji officially? Easy to beat Sony here.

Now (Amir?), get ANYONE with intuition to allow loop scrolling on the dash, PLEASE?
It is pretty dopey having to scroll from top to bottom EVERYTIME, on a long list.

YES! I couldn't agree more. Please change this.

Hey gang- I'm consodering picking one of these units up. I've read through most of this stuff and have few questions.

I understand that the HD-DVD add on does not upscale 480i DVDs to 1080i over component. Does it upscale 480i DVDs to 1080i over VGA? and if so, is there such a beast as a VGA/Component adapter?

I have a pretty capable DVD player that upscales to 1080i over HDMI and am very impressed by it's PQ. I would hate to take a step backwards by getting rid of it and consolidating to just the HD-DVD add on and be limited to 480p over component. On my TV there is a huge difference in PQ.

Yes, the 360 upconverts DVD over VGA.

The HD DVD addon doesn't use any additonal inputs on your TV or anything, it just uses the connection you already have through the Xbox 360 to TV. I'm assuming you have your Xbox 360 and your current upconverting DVD player attached at the same time.......so just keep that arrangement. Use the upconverting DVD player for SD DVDs and use the Xbox360 + addon for HD DVDs.

Tom Crews

but it should have done 1080p over VGA even before the update. Well...I take that back, not unless you had an SXRD, which you probably do.


Perhaps you can answer the question... Do the colors looked washed out in 1080p over VGA post-update?It should do 1080P over VGA on any 1080P monitor regardless of the brand/size. The best PQ you can get from component video connection is 1080i.

Yes, the 360 upconverts DVD over VGA.

Thanks for the prompt answer BTW

And if my TV has no VGA input, can I use a vga/component adapter and retain the same image quality? Or will it drop the res to 480p automatically for copy protect reasons?

Hey gang- I'm consodering picking one of these units up. I've read through most of this stuff and have few questions.

I understand that the HD-DVD add on does not upscale 480i DVDs to 1080i over component. Does it upscale 480i DVDs to 1080i over VGA? and if so, is there such a beast as a VGA/Component adapter?

I have a pretty capable DVD player that upscales to 1080i over HDMI and am very impressed by it's PQ. I would hate to take a step backwards by getting rid of it and consolidating to just the HD-DVD add on and be limited to 480p over component. On my TV there is a huge difference in PQ.You'll need VGA cable to up convert to 1080i. Xbox 360 premium console package included the component video cable, and you'll have to get VGA cable as an accessory. The VGA cable is 39 bucks at CC and BB. You can get it on eBay for less than 10 bucks and don't forget to get optical cable for it. It doesn't include in the package either.

I wish that they have HDMI option. It is less mess with a single cable for both video and audio..!

It is my understanding that if the 360 is not plugged into a VGA port, it will output DVD at 480p.

I'm asking this again since the last time I asked this, it was ignored (surprise).

So to be clear about the update, should HD-DVD playback over VGA be on par with Component? On my Bravia KLV-S26A10, the color was VERY muted, but if this fixes that problem, I will switch permanently tonight.

Don't take it personally that you are being ignored. You are asking a question that only someone that works at microsoft would know. This patch has been out for only a few hours and it is unlikely that anyone has had the time to run through a number of tests to be able to answer you just yet. Have patience, or switch connections on your own and find out for the rest of us.

jblank74,
You are correct (DVDs at 480P over component).

Don't take it personally that you are being ignored. You are asking a question that only someone that works at microsoft would know. This patch has been out for only a few hours and it is unlikely that anyone has had the time to run through a number of tests to be able to answer you just yet. Have patience, or switch connections on your own and find out for the rest of us.


I'm leaving work now, so I think I may do just that. Gotta find my tripod to take pics though. :)

Bummer about no upconvert for regular dvds over component. HDMI would have been nice here (as everyone knows). I guess I'll just have to keep the upconverting player I have and enjoy the HD-DVD add on for it's HD stuff. Just one more component to add to the mix.

Hi
I have been using the VGA cables with the 360 for a while now, and after todays update it definitely fixed the washed out color issue. I had to turn down the saturation and hue on my Westinghouse to tame them down a little.

Colors are much more vibrant now after todays update in VGA.

probably dont...
I have a xbr2 and it never displayed 1080p with the 360. The new patch this morning fixed that though, and I will report back later about the washed out colors.
is this the RP xbr2? does it fill the screen at 1080p? i've only heard people with the lcd say it actually fixed anything...

It should do 1080P over VGA on any 1080P monitor regardless of the brand/size. The best PQ you can get from component video connection is 1080i.

The Sony Pearl SXRD front projector will not accept a 1080p signal over VGA. It is not the only monitor like this -- there are many others.

1080p is accepted only over the Pearl's HDMI input. The good news is that the 1080i deinterlacer in the Pearl is very good.

Is it possible to make the 360 vga cable longer, is it alright to use some sort of connector and extension cable?
I am having a hard time making it reach the projector in the ceiling :)

monoprice.com. I'm using a 30 foot cable hooked to my projector. Works great!

The Sony Pearl SXRD front projector will not accept a 1080p signal over VGA. It is not the only monitor like this -- there are many others.

1080p is accepted only over the Pearl's HDMI input. The good news is that the 1080i deinterlacer in the Pearl is very good.I guess somebody at Sony and Microsoft has to come up with a proper firmware to support it..!

Hi
I have been using the VGA cables with the 360 for a while now, and after todays update it definitely fixed the washed out color issue. I had to turn down the saturation and hue on my Westinghouse to tame them down a little.

Colors are much more vibrant now after todays update in VGA.

I have to agree, I have been running some comparisons that last few days with my HD-DVD addon via component and vga vs SD upconvert and the new update seems to have helped the colors and even the sharpness of the picture via VGA. At this point I like the VGA better on my Panny AE900.

an audio observation. right now i only have KK and VforV. I hadn't noticed much of a difference on KK when switching between DD and DD+, but i notice a BIG difference on VforV when i switch between DD and True-HD. i know it's still re-encoding it to DD before sending to the receiver, but the higher bit rate must really make a difference.

I have a samsung plasma and it is capable of 720p and 1080i. Im going to purchase the HD-DVD add-on for the 360 and was wondering if I should purchase the VGA cable instead of using the component cables. Will the VGA cable make a difference even if my tv doesnt support 1080p?

I have a samsung plasma and it is capable of 720p and 1080i. Im going to purchase the HD-DVD add-on for the 360 and was wondering if I should purchase the VGA cable instead of using the component cables. Will the VGA cable make a difference even if my tv doesnt support 1080p?VGA has the advantage over component. It is worth it to spent 10 bucks on eBay for a VGA cable. You have to hurry before the $40 coupon at CC expire.

$40 coupon at CC????

If i dont buy the VGA cable from MS, is there another brand on ebay that someone recommends or are they pretty much the same? Do they all come w/ the optical out as well? thx

Yes, it will. Like TR said it doesn't have the p designation but it also doesn't have the i either. I have a Samsung HLS5687W and the 360 HD-DVD drive hooked up via VGA. I am very happy with it.

I have a Samsung HL-S6188 and just got a new set of Monster Cable VGA cables (which I realize I need to buy their proprietary optical add-on cable. What a rip-off).

I hooked up the new cables and am getting a 1 inch black border around what's on the screen. The TV does report that it is receiving a 1080p signal, but what's with the border?

Is it something I need to remedy with the 360 or with the TV?

John

Will VGA improve the signal to a 1080i screen?

woot!! I could not get to work today to confirm it fast enough!
kdl-46xbr2
http://members.toast.net/tmtackett/photos/tv/1080-dashboardfixed.jpg
http://members.toast.net/tmtackett/photos/tv/1080-tvfixed.jpg
It is all working good now. It seemed some of the color loss issue was fixed as well, but I could not fully test out that theory this morning. Great news for xbr2 owners!!!
dumb question do you have to be using VGA to see the info on the picture.....
1920X1080 and picture video mode

$40 coupon at CC????

If i dont buy the VGA cable from MS, is there another brand on ebay that someone recommends or are they pretty much the same? Do they all come w/ the optical out as well? thxUnfortunately, I don't have CC coupon w/ me. I saved it at my office. It is in Xbox thread somewhere.

Here is the VGA cable I got: HD VGA (http://cgi.*********.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150064807060&ssPageName=MERCOSI_VI_ROSI_PR4_PCN_BIX_Stores&refitem=150064536122&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=closed_view_item&refwidgettype=osi_widget) It is a rip-off at the local store.

I have a Samsung HL-S6188 and just got a new set of Monster Cable VGA cables (which I realize I need to buy their proprietary optical add-on cable. What a rip-off).

I hooked up the new cables and am getting a 1 inch black border around what's on the screen. The TV does report that it is receiving a 1080p signal, but what's with the border?

Is it something I need to remedy with the 360 or with the TV?

JohnMonster is always a rip-off. It isn't any better than the others, but it is nice for display. It looks nice..!

Also wondering if a VGA to Component adapter will allow me to upconvert DVD's on my Sony 30XS955 CRT. Thanks in advance.

Has anyone tried using a VGA to DVI adapter? I don't have a VGA connection on my TV, only DVI. Will an adapter work? Will I lose picture quality by using an adapter?

Monster is always a rip-off. It isn't any better than the others, but it is nice for display. It looks nice..!

I agree Monster is a ripoff, but I got it with Membership Rewards points, so meh.

What about the 1" black border around what's on the screen? Anybody else experience this?

I have a Denon DVD-5910 which is a VERY nice SD player. I do have to admit that the HD-DVD add-on does produce a sharper image. Crazy. $3,500 vs. $600.

So with this driver from microsoft, we no longer need the 'hacked' toshiba drivers to get it to work on a PC? Sweet. I'm assuming they are available via windows update?

Does anybody have the optoma hd-70 working with this update I still get a HUGE screen when I switch to 1080p over vga...is there a firmware update from optoma for this?

I have a Samsung HL-S6188 and just got a new set of Monster Cable VGA cables (which I realize I need to buy their proprietary optical add-on cable. What a rip-off).

I hooked up the new cables and am getting a 1 inch black border around what's on the screen. The TV does report that it is receiving a 1080p signal, but what's with the border?

Is it something I need to remedy with the 360 or with the TV?

John


If I remember correctly, there was a post in this very thread (from about two or three weeks ago! :p ), that said that if you hook up your Xbox 360 to your TV via VGA cable, afterwards you then have to go into your 360's video settings on the settings blade and RE-SELECT 1080p in order for it to be displayed properly via VGA. This should only be a one-time thing, unless you decide to switch back to component. I hope this helps you out, my friend!

Cheers!
:cool:

dumb question do you have to be using VGA to see the info on the picture.....
1920X1080 and picture video mode

I get 1920x1080i on my plasma which only supports 720p and 1080i and currently have it hooked up via component cables. Im wondering if I get VGA cables will it enhance the 720p or 1080i picture

Wow im I just came back from my friends house after getting the HD-dvd and it looked simply amazing! But its werid when I got home and tested with my own tv(Samsung 32' LCD/HD)King Kong HD looked great at first glanced but when I tested with my regular dvd of King Kong there's really hardly a difference. To a point now that im thinking of sending it back. My 360 upconverts all of my standard dvd's to HD via VGA and really its the greatest device ever for only 40 bucks! Ill give it one more day before I make a final decision.

is this the RP xbr2? does it fill the screen at 1080p? i've only heard people with the lcd say it actually fixed anything...
Mine is the 46 inch lcd. It fills the screen completey at 1080p and has no issues at all. Before the patch it was useless, but since the patch I am loving some 1080p ;)

dumb question do you have to be using VGA to see the info on the picture.....
1920X1080 and picture video mode
No you do not. You can check the incoming signal by hitting the display button (for component inputs) or the menu button (for vga) on the remote and it will display what resolution in the incoming signal is.

Any idea when an update for the audio? I been showing my friends the difference in picture quality they are amazed but not impressed with the sound. I am using Yamaha DVD cx1, friends liked the audio and picture quality from it.

Here's the link: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=760612

Its kind of like a predictive market, inspired by Inkling

Here's the link: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=760612

Its kind of like a predictive market, inspired by Inkling

This poll seems biased against HD DVD, as if Universal went neutral HD DVD loses a big supporter. Why does your poll not have the bR exclusive studios as well? Why even raise the question at all since Universal has already declared exclusive support for HD DVD?

I get 1920x1080i on my plasma which only supports 720p and 1080i and currently have it hooked up via component cables. Im wondering if I get VGA cables will it enhance the 720p or 1080i pictureIt'll upconvert stdn definition DVD and enhance PQ..!

Wow im I just came back from my friends house after getting the HD-dvd and it looked simply amazing! But its werid when I got home and tested with my own tv(Samsung 32' LCD/HD)King Kong HD looked great at first glanced but when I tested with my regular dvd of King Kong there's really hardly a difference. To a point now that im thinking of sending it back. My 360 upconverts all of my standard dvd's to HD via VGA and really its the greatest device ever for only 40 bucks! Ill give it one more day before I make a final decision.It must be your setting. You should see at least a slight better in PQ. The PQ and AQ looks and sounds crispier..!

I downloaded and install the 1080p patch and compared picture quality with 1080p VGA vs. 1080i component using Batman Begins on a Sony 46 xbr2 LCD HDTV. VGA 1080p does take up the whole screen, but the picture quality sucks compared to component 1080i. Very few options to change in video9 of the Sony 46xbr2 for VGA/PC input. I know of no options (other than selecting resolutions for VGA or componet) to tweak in 360 HD DVD. Anybody else with sony xbr2/3 have any luck? If not, it's not worth using VGA cable between 360 HD-DVD and Sony xbr2/3.

Any idea when an update for the audio? I been showing my friends the difference in picture quality they are amazed but not impressed with the sound. I am using Yamaha DVD cx1, friends liked the audio and picture quality from it.The Xbox HD-DVD is barely on the market. Give it a little of time, they'll have a firmware for it. I am waiting for the 7.1 audio and HDMI output too. It would be great on my 7.1 setup, but I am satisfied w/ $168 investment on an HD-DVD player for now. It is very cheap compares to BD and A1 HD player..!

dumb question do you have to be using VGA to see the info on the picture.....
1920X1080 and picture video mode

I own and 46xbr2. The answer is yes. You have to have the VGA cbl installed, otherwise you will not see this screen.

What about the 1" black border around what's on the screen? Anybody else experience this?



I have an HLR model, which is similar to your's. On the HLR model there is an adjustment under the picture settings.

I have an HLR model, which is similar to your's. On the HLR model there is an adjustment under the picture settings.

I'll try adjusting on the TV side then. Thanks.

Ok gentlemen, the test is complete and I have results. First to the pictures:

Photos taken with my Fuji Finepix A500 5.1 Megapixel camera, on a tripod. TV is a Sony Bravia KLV-S26A10. Component is performing at 720p, VGA at 1360X768.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/jblank/DSCF0030-1.jpg
Component

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/jblank/DSCF0035.jpg
VGA


Mission Impossible HD-DVD

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/jblank/DSCF0032-1.jpg
Component

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/jblank/DSCF0037.jpg
VGA

Tiger Woods PGA Tour 07

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/jblank/DSCF0034.jpg
Component

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/jblank/DSCF0033.jpg
Component

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/jblank/DSCF0038.jpg
VGA

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/jblank/DSCF0039.jpg
VGA


CONCLUSION:

While it looks like the VGA input color output has caught up with Component (for the most part), the image is STILL very soft and less detailed, than Component. Cruise's face really shows this off, as you lose most of the detail in his cheek with VGA. On the bright side, VGA produces less aliasing, and on games, doesn't appear to be THAT different; still, the image is a bit soft, and the loss of jaggies isn't enough for me to give it the nod.

Component wins due to its performance in showing fine detail, and for having crisper text output.

Wow, great comparisons shots there jblank. Really shows the differences between the two.

I'm in complete agreement with you in regards to the level of details betweeen VGA and component. I wish that the VGA would catch up to component output.

My 42" Westy has a great de-interlacer so it's better for me to use 1080i over component than 1080p over VGA.

I picked up the VGA cable for my AE900 last night. I had tried this setup a few months ago but was never able to adjust the 900 to display the full panel. The patch has fixed this, although I need to use the full amount of horizontal shift.

The picture after calibration appears a small amount less saturated than component but also appears to be more detailed. The upscaling of standard dvd is on par with my HTPC ffdshow setup. That is probably the biggest reason for wanting the cable...to get rid of my HTPC.

Looks like a worth while upgrade...good job Microsoft.

I have a Samsung 4095. After downloading the 11/30 update VGA is much improved but component is still better because the colors are more vibrant. With my TV the VGA connection does not allow for much adjustment. I can only alter brightness and contrast when viewing a DVD. Reducing the brightness does make the colors better but not as good as over component. Microsoft says an HDMI connection is not necessary. I say it is.

I agreed that component looks slightly better in detailing; but after you switched to VGA, you'll need to recalibrate the set. As you might already be aware of it, TV set is calibrated for TV viewing which is component and HDMI. It is VGA capable, but you’ll need to calibrate to your liking. It should turn out very close. The top benefit of VGA is it ability to up convert stdn definition DVD and component cannot.

I own a Samsung HLS5688W 1080P TV, and my VGA vs Component comparison yeilds the same result. I haven't found any configuration in which the VGA looks better. To me, component at 1080i & 1080p is simply superior for games and HD-DVD. DVD upconversion on VGA seems better, but it didn't jump out at me.

FYI, this is post calibration. I'm sure most users here are smart enough to know that calibration is an essential variable when it comes to making these comparisons.

DVD upconversion on VGA seems better, but it didn't jump out at me.


doesn't it only upconvert via vga?

doesn't it only upconvert via vga?Yes..!

Here are things MS should include:

1. HDMI (video/audio) – it’ll requires HDMI cable and firmware
2. 7.1 audio output option- it’ll requires firmware
3. Capable of up-conversion for the entire available connections- it’ll require firmware
4. Unify PQ for the entire available connections- it’ll require firmware
5. Can easily network w/ PC- it'll require firmware

If they want the best product available, why stop short of being the best?

So much for me going out and getting the VGA cable. LOL

Here are things MS should include:

3. Capable of up-conversion for the entire available connections- it’ll require firmware

technically, it does.

Here are things MS should include:

1. HDMI (video/audio) – it’ll requires HDMI cable and firmware
2. 7.1 audio output option- it’ll requires firmware



Both of these options will be extremely difficult to implement. The video and audio hardware out on the xbox is analog. This is a no no if you want to play nice with the rulemakers of all digital media.

For that to happen, they would most likely have to create some type of expansion device with the USB port, and you are looking at at least $100 for it, to keep it digital all the way. If it were as easy as a firmware upgrade and new AV cable, they would have done it by now.

(This is all according to my understanding, and I could be wrong)

your calibration comparison between component and vga is kinda flawed. You can tell in the MI:3 pic that the contrast and brightness are higher in the vga shot compared to component. Also, you are getting overscan in the component pics, where it looks like you are getting practically no overscan in the vga pics. Look at the menu pics where you can see the faint orange border at the bottom of the screen.

Both of these options will be extremely difficult to implement. The video and audio hardware out on the xbox is analog. This is a no no if you want to play nice with the rulemakers of all digital media.

For that to happen, they would most likely have to create some type of expansion device with the USB port, and you are looking at at least $100 for it, to keep it digital all the way. If it were as easy as a firmware upgrade and new AV cable, they would have done it by now.

(This is all according to my understanding, and I could be wrong)Anything is possible, but manufacture will never instroduce everything all at once. They want to keep these options for future release to attract their future customer..!

technically, it does.Have you seen the PQ of standard definition over component? It may be capable of doing so, but it is not comparable w/ VGA. It is definitely need some kind of firmware to smooth thing out.

Both of these options will be extremely difficult to implement. The video and audio hardware out on the xbox is analog. This is a no no if you want to play nice with the rulemakers of all digital media.

For that to happen, they would most likely have to create some type of expansion device with the USB port, and you are looking at at least $100 for it, to keep it digital all the way. If it were as easy as a firmware upgrade and new AV cable, they would have done it by now.

(This is all according to my understanding, and I could be wrong)

There are alot of people who keep insisting that the output on the xbox 360 is analog. Where are the technical specs/drafts, or admissions by microsoft that the interface on the xbox 360 is analog only?

Microsoft has said time and again that they CAN do an HDMI cable. They are just being jerks about announcing one or admitting if they cannot for some reason. But they never have said, at least to my knowledge, that the Xbox360 can only support an analog connection.

Please provide a link that provides solid proof of this notion, if your correct I would love to have the actual information. If your just saying this because you feel it to be true (a la the force) then please stop as your only spreading your own opinion and not fact.

TimT

Can anybody report their experiences with the loudness of the 360 add-on? I have one but it is a bit annoying since it is clearly audible unless I turn up the sound.

It is like a "whir" that just gets more annoying as time passes because I can easily hear it.

There are alot of people who keep insisting that the output on the xbox 360 is analog. Where are the technical specs/drafts, or admissions by microsoft that the interface on the xbox 360 is analog only?

Microsoft has said time and again that they CAN do an HDMI cable. They are just being jerks about announcing one or admitting if they cannot for some reason. But they never have said, at least to my knowledge, that the Xbox360 can only support an analog connection.

Please provide a link that provides solid proof of this notion, if your correct I would love to have the actual information. If your just saying this because you feel it to be true (a la the force) then please stop as your only spreading your own opinion and not fact.

TimT

This was discussed at length here in these very forums a year ago, but I don't feel like digging those conversations up for you. With a few quick google searchest hough:
http://www.hotchips.org/archives/hc17/3_Tue/HC17.S8/HC17.S8T4.pdf
Look at page 5.

If that isn't enough for you though, sorry, call me a liar then. This has already been discussed though, and if you find it easier to believe that the largest software corporation in the world hasn't released a digital output for their flagship console out of stuborness rather than technical issues, then go right ahead.

I never said it was impossible for them to do so. I said that it is expensive to do so. They would have to create a dongle/converter that actually encrypted the signal to an external modual through analog to convert to digital. That's not a simple $15 cable solution that everyone wants.

has anyone noticed that the sound output from the subwoofer is lower after the recent dashboard update.. I've played a few movies that are only DD+ and the LFE output seems to be low.. I've played a regular dvd through the hd dvd player and the LFE output is just about where it should be compared to my denon player. Only when I play Superman returns and select DD trueHd does the sub exhibit some life and when i select dts from the Chronicles of Riddick...Playing regular dvds through my denon dvd player sub output is great...

I have a Samsung hln437w and I've tried both the vga and componet connections to my TV.. Although the manual says in pc mode it can do 1920x1080 through the pc inputs..they mean it can do that resolution through DVI.. with vga the max you can do with 360 is 1360x768.... and when i use that resolution i notice a lag in the picture ... stuttering... when i put to 1024x768 it seems to go away... although i still think i see slight hesitaions here and there.. Through componet video i select 1080i output on the 360 and i would say the pictures are very close with a slight nod to the vga... I think the shadow detail is a little better with the vga... I've looked at so many seens over and over... I need to take a break and get some fresh eyes on it later... To anybody looking for a vga cable for your 360 RadioShack has them for 29.95 in Store... I had the MS one but i returned it to save myself 10 bucks...I already had the optical adapter from my old xbox that you need if you want DD

Can anybody report their experiences with the loudness of the 360 add-on? I have one but it is a bit annoying since it is clearly audible unless I turn up the sound.

It is like a "whir" that just gets more annoying as time passes because I can easily hear it.No, my 360 and its HD player are very quiet.

This was discussed at length here in these very forums a year ago, but I don't feel like digging those conversations up for you. With a few quick google searchest hough:
http://www.hotchips.org/archives/hc17/3_Tue/HC17.S8/HC17.S8T4.pdf
Look at page 5.

If that isn't enough for you though, sorry, call me a liar then. This has already been discussed though, and if you find it easier to believe that the largest software corporation in the world hasn't released a digital output for their flagship console out of stuborness rather than technical issues, then go right ahead.

I never said it was impossible for them to do so. I said that it is expensive to do so. They would have to create a dongle/converter that actually encrypted the signal to an external modual through analog to convert to digital. That's not a simple $15 cable solution that everyone wants.
They are not stubborn. It is a smart business. They'll not release everything all at once. Every new option is technical challenge, but they'll always manage to release new things to the market time after time. It is in their future plans. It could possible be new a HDMI cable and the proper firmware to support it. For sure, it'll not be $15 cable..!

They are not stubborn. It is a smart business. They'll not release everything all at once. Every new option is technical challenge, but they'll always manage to release new things to the market time after time. It is in their future plans. It could possible be new a HDMI cable and the proper firmware to support it. For sure, it'll not be $15 cable..!
i wouldn't call it smart business at all. cables are an incredible source of profit margin. the thing costs them like $3.46 and they'll charge $40. i think if they could do it, they would've done it by now.

Just had the USB port on the back of my 360 die. I had the HD-DVD drive connected at the back, and the system suddenly crashed while playing a game on the regular drive. The system rebooted fine but I could not get ANY peripherals to connect (HD-DVD drive, camera, wireless headset, wireless controller - nothing). Moving the USB to one of the front sockets fixed the problem and everything works fine.

Could the HD-DVD drive overload the port? Or did it just overheat from being so close to the power supply.

Any one else ever have a USB port die on the 360?

Help.... I have the 60xbr2 just bought the vga cable plugged it up now TV is reading unsupported signal adjust your pc. What went wrong?

I read some more. Was the firmware only for xbr2 that are LCD? If so VGA is going back to bb ASAP.

Can anyone recommend a good VGA switch for an Xbox360 w/ HD DVD? I already have my PC connected to my TV's VGA port. I'm OK with using a manual switch as long as the picture quality is good.

I'm having a problem and I'm definitely a beginner at this whole hd-dvd thing so I figured I'd turn to the pros on this board. I recently purchased the xbox 360 hd-dvd player. Everything installed fine and the movies play fine on it. The problem is that I honestly do not think that it's playing in hi-def format. I've spent the last hour comparing a few of the exact same screens from the regular dvd version of a movie and the exact same scenes on the hd-dvd version and I see absolutely no difference at all.

I have a Philips 37" LCD and I'm running the stock component cables that came with the 360. I've also changed the settings on my xbox to both 720p and 1080i to see if that would make a difference but it didn't help anything. If anybody can give me some helpful advice I would truly appreciate it. I have a good eye for picture quality and I know that somethings wrong and it's not just me. My roomate looked and said the same thing as myself. Thanks.

I was going to give the link to my tv so people could see the specs but this site won't let me until I have 5 posts. Here's the model number and it can be viewed on the philips website. 37PF9631

Make sure you have the switch on the end of the component cable set to "HD". Otherwise all you get is 480p regardless of what you set in the system settings.

Make sure you have the switch on the end of the component cable set to "HD". Otherwise all you get is 480p regardless of what you set in the system settings.

Already checked that and thanks for the reply. I wish there was a way to show on the screen what resolution is showing while I'm watching the movie.

I bought the 360 addon and have a Panasonic AE900 front projector and I am trying to make sure I have everything setup correctly. The reason I am asking is because I tried comparing Batman Begins HD-DVD to an upconverted SD-DVD Batman Begins and both my wife and I didn't see a huge difference in the picture quality.

Display: Panasonic AE900 with 106" Greywolf screen
Xbox 360 HD DVD: connected via component cables at both 720p and 1080i (tried both settings)
Sony NS75H upconverting DVD player: connected HDMI
Calibration: Tried it myself with the Digital Video Essenstials and made several adjustments based on video tests.

I had both the HD and SD upconvert Batman Begins movies playing at the same time and at about the same spot in the movie. I continually switched video sources between the two and had a real hard time determining which was HD and which was SD upconvert and tried different parts of the movies. I tried switching the Xbox output to both 720p and 1080i and didn't see much of a difference. I had my wife try to tell me which looked and better and more often than not she picked the SD upconvert source as the better one.

I have the Xbox 360 VGA cables and haven't tried them with HD-DVD yet, I tried them initially with just games but found the component cables more to my liking.

Is there something obvious I can try to see a difference in PQ? Would the VGA cables be better (I will try them tonight). Is Batman Begins a bad choice to try and compare? I also got Troy and Last Samurai HD-DVD from Netflix today and will compare them to my SD versions tonight.

Thanks for any help, I really want to this work with the HD-DVD!

I don't have a dedicated Upscaling player, but I do use an HTPC hooked up to my toshiba 50' Rear Projection HDTV. I can definitely tell the difference between HD-DVD and SD-DVD when looking at Batman Begins. Some of the things your going to want to look at are the scenes with the mountains in the background, scenes of the ice flows on Bruce Wayne's trip to the League of Shadows Monastery, the Monastery it self. There are plenty of places where you will be able to see extra depth on a set that is properly showing you the full resolution 1080i or 1080p image.

One thing you might want to look at is the settings for your separate inputs, I originally thought my set only used one setting for all of the inputs, but I recently discovered (even after thinking that HD-DVD looked pretty sharp) that I had the Sharpness set really low on the Component input that I view the Xbox360 on.

I too had a hard time telling between the HD-DVD and my upscaled and FFDShow post processed SD-DVD through theatertek, (but I get a pretty awesome image through this setup)

Once I had the sharpness turned up on both the Component and HDMI connection however I could easily see the compression artifacts that just do not exist (to my perception) on the HD-DVD.

I can assure you that if you can see the difference between an SD-DVD and an HD Broadcast, you will definitely be able to see the difference in the case of the 360 add on. King Kong looks awesome too.

TimT

Just had the USB port on the back of my 360 die. I had the HD-DVD drive connected at the back, and the system suddenly crashed while playing a game on the regular drive. The system rebooted fine but I could not get ANY peripherals to connect (HD-DVD drive, camera, wireless headset, wireless controller - nothing). Moving the USB to one of the front sockets fixed the problem and everything works fine.

Could the HD-DVD drive overload the port? Or did it just overheat from being so close to the power supply.

Any one else ever have a USB port die on the 360?

Yep had this happen a few times with my Wireless Network adapter. I had to unplug the Xbox power brick and let it sit for about 10 minutes and then plug it back in and see if it works. Worked for me a few times, worth a try.

I have a query which hopefully someone may be able to answer regarding the HD-DVD drive,however being new to this game it might seem like a stupid one but here goes.
As i understand it the connection between the the hd drive to the 360 is done by a small usb (firewire?)cable so therefore i assume it carries both the video and sound signals,now i have a jvc 701 receiver which has a usb connection (printer type one) on the front and hdmi on the back,so is it possible to bypass the 360 and take the signals into the receiver and let the jvc receiver do both the video/sound the proccessing by means of either a firewire to usb or firewire to hdmi,if indeed it is possible to get either of these cables or am i living in a dream world?

that won't be possible as the xbox hd-dvd drive is a 'dumb' drive which connects via USB to the 360 which interprets the data stream, decodes whatever's there and displays it.

your calibration comparison between component and vga is kinda flawed. You can tell in the MI:3 pic that the contrast and brightness are higher in the vga shot compared to component. Also, you are getting overscan in the component pics, where it looks like you are getting practically no overscan in the vga pics. Look at the menu pics where you can see the faint orange border at the bottom of the screen.Yes, I agree with this post.

You simply can't compare a VGA signal to a component signal using the same picture settings on the TV. Any decent HDTV should have completely seperate memories for each input. I would recommend a calibration on your VGA input - particularly for contrast and brightness (black level). I think you will find the settings to be vastly different between VGA and component. I know on my 47" Westinghouse LCD, when I ran the THX Optimizer test - my VGA contrast was at 80 before blooming kicked in while my component was at 53.

For my Westy, the VGA connection is absolutely the way to go picture quality wise and for the ability to upconvert everything to 1080p60 which component can't do.

C.

Yep had this happen a few times with my Wireless Network adapter. I had to unplug the Xbox power brick and let it sit for about 10 minutes and then plug it back in and see if it works. Worked for me a few times, worth a try.


Mine did that too a couple of weeks ago. I just restarted the system and that did the trick

It'll upconvert stdn definition DVD and enhance PQ..!

Is it true that this won't work well with a Sony A10 50 inch set? Model number in my sig.

I read somewhere that the vga input on this TV doesn't really support this. thoughts?

Also, with a 720p set, is standard dvd upconversion worth it? Being the upconversion is up to 1080p?

Is it true that this won't work well with a Sony A10 50 inch set? Model number in my sig.

I read somewhere that the vga input on this TV doesn't really support this. thoughts?

Also, with a 720p set, is standard dvd upconversion worth it? Being the upconversion is up to 1080p?I am not familiar with Sony set, but you can give Sony a call. It is worth a try. They might have a firmware to fix it.

It is worth it to watch 720P than 480P..!

i wouldn't call it smart business at all. cables are an incredible source of profit margin. the thing costs them like $3.46 and they'll charge $40. i think if they could do it, they would've done it by now.I am not saying, that cable is not profitable, but it can be duplicate. There is always others can duplicate the cable and sale it for less. You can see ton of duplicated component and VGA cable for a lot less than the OEM Microsoft cable. They lose ton of their cable buyers to others.

If they introduce the HDMI version of Xbox in the future, they'll attract newer customer and return customer to the next generation Xbox w/ HDMI. For sure, the next Xbox will have HDMI and 7.1 options.

Already checked that and thanks for the reply. I wish there was a way to show on the screen what resolution is showing while I'm watching the movie.

Check the remote control that came with your display, look for a button called "on screen information", maybe this will display some info. Check pg. 6 in your manual for this button's function, button looks like an "i+"

Have you seen the PQ of standard definition over component? It may be capable of doing so, but it is not comparable w/ VGA. It is definitely need some kind of firmware to smooth thing out.

DVD cannot be upconverted over component due to licensing restrictions (Macrovision I believe, or CSS). VGA is the only output on the 360 that allows an upconversion of DVD, and the Xbox 360 upconverts via that connection.

The Toshiba HD-A1, and all other players from major manufacturers have the same limitations, none of them upconvert over component. Heck, the Denon 5910 doesn't upconvert over component, only HDMI.

DVD cannot be upconverted over component due to licensing restrictions (Macrovision I believe, or CSS). VGA is the only output on the 360 that allows an upconversion of DVD, and the Xbox 360 upconverts via that connection.

The Toshiba HD-A1, and all other players from major manufacturers have the same limitations, none of them upconvert over component. Heck, the Denon 5910 doesn't upconvert over component, only HDMI.That is correct. That is why I said have you seen the PQ of the standard DVD video over component compare to VGA upcomversion. You'll get standard PQ over component compare to upconversion over VGA.

Thanks for the help with some of my previous questions regarding the add-on. Based on what I learned here I went out and bought a 360, an HD-DVD drive add-on, a few games and some movies last night. I must say I'm not disappointed. Currently using 1080i over component to Tosh 52HM94 DLP. PQ is amazing, as expected. Also tried a few SD/480 dvds over component. The PQ was actually better than expected, assuming it is 480p output. I ran Avia and DVE for grins and the only thing really off was black level. Settings for brightness changed from 50/100 (ISF calibrated) to 15/100 in order for black level to be correct. As you can imagine, the image was severely washed out until I made this adjustment. Still trying to decide whether I want this to be dedicated dvd drive for SD/480 discs though. My upconverting Sony at 1080i over HDMI looks a bit better but it would be nice to consolidate.

What's the word on vga/hdmi converter? Only digital inputs on my set are firewire and HDMI.

Yes, I agree with this post.

You simply can't compare a VGA signal to a component signal using the same picture settings on the TV. Any decent HDTV should have completely seperate memories for each input. I would recommend a calibration on your VGA input - particularly for contrast and brightness (black level). I think you will find the settings to be vastly different between VGA and component. I know on my 47" Westinghouse LCD, when I ran the THX Optimizer test - my VGA contrast was at 80 before blooming kicked in while my component was at 53.

For my Westy, the VGA connection is absolutely the way to go picture quality wise and for the ability to upconvert everything to 1080p60 which component can't do.

C.

if i was to change from component to VGA, by reading these posts its pretty evident that I will need to change my tv settings to get the most out of the picture. However, when going back to other sources such as Directv, PS3, etc will I have to switch my settings back to the original or will it remain with whatever it was wth vga? Just wondering bc i wouldnt want to have to switch back and forth when changing sources

This depends on your display. If it allows input specific adjustments you're fine. Every display I've ever owned in the last 4 years have supported this.

Don't know about the Westy.

This depends on your display. If it allows input specific adjustments you're fine. Every display I've ever owned in the last 4 years have supported this.

Don't know about the Westy.

Well I have a samsung plasma, so i guess ill give it a shot

This depends on your display. If it allows input specific adjustments you're fine. Every display I've ever owned in the last 4 years have supported this.

Don't know about the Westy.

Check the remote control that came with your display, look for a button called "on screen information", maybe this will display some info. Check pg. 6 in your manual for this button's function, button looks like an "i+"

Thanks for the tip. Its says that I'm playing the vid at 720p so I guess everythings working fine.

The funny thing is that I was comapring the new Superman Returns movie with the regular dvd and the hd-dvd and wasn't impressed because I truly did not see a difference. Then I played The Chronicles of Riddick in hd-dvd format this morning and that movie is amazing looking. This movie is some of the nicest eye candy I have ever seen.

A few quick questions for experts based on my tv. Since my tvs native resolution is 1366 x 768p should I watch my movies and play my video games at 720p or 1080i? Also should I purchase one of those calibration dvds? Is it worth the money and does it really help that much?

Thanks for the tip. Its says that I'm playing the vid at 720p so I guess everythings working fine.

The funny thing is that I was comapring the new Superman Returns movie with the regular dvd and the hd-dvd and wasn't impressed because I truly did not see a difference. Then I played The Chronicles of Riddick in hd-dvd format this morning and that movie is amazing looking. This movie is some of the nicest eye candy I have ever seen.

A few quick questions for experts based on my tv. Since my tvs native resolution is 1366 x 768p should I watch my movies and play my video games at 720p or 1080i? Also should I purchase one of those calibration dvds? Is it worth the money and does it really help that much?

Funny that you mentioned that. I rented few HD-DVD's from Blockbuster and after watching Polar Express I wasn't really impressed. Then I was testing my HD_DVD add on with my computer and it started playing the movie. It took me a while to figure they send me regular DVD in HD envelope. Amazingly, the Xbox360 did very good job of upscalling SD DVD to the point, it wasn't that obvious that DVD wasn't the real McCoy. Not sure if it was honest mistake, previous rental swaped the disc on purpose, or BB did it on purpose.

Funny that you mentioned that. I rented few HD-DVD's from Blockbuster and after watching Polar Express I wasn't really impressed. Then I was testing my HD_DVD add on with my computer and it started playing the movie. It took me a while to figure they send me regular DVD in HD envelope. Amazingly, the Xbox360 did very good job of upscalling SD DVD to the point, it wasn't that obvious that DVD wasn't the real McCoy. Not sure if it was honest mistake, previous rental swaped the disc on purpose, or BB did it on purpose.

I rented PE from Netflix and the HDDVD was amazing! Big clue seems to be the logo opening, they like to do-up those openings! Hope you don't get blamed for the mix up!

There is a update out now that will the 1080p problems Major Nelson has posted about it.
* Improved support for HD video output over VGA, including 1080p resolution

Does this update, or even the standard software, permit VGA at 1080p72?

I have not been able to find out so far what refresh rates the xbox360 supports, although everything points to only 50/60Hz.

For 60Hz presentation, 1080p24 native HD-DVD requires 3:2 pulldown thus "compromising" maximal quality progressive display. I'm wondering if the field insertion and possible blending required to support this refresh rate is resulting in the softer looking image via VGA compared to component, that has been commented on previously.

1080p72 would be very useful as an option to drive progressive CRT displays and should require less processing than 1080p60 (as it simply outputs the decoded 1080p24 frames 3 times).

Are there any plans to offer an 1080p72 update in the future (assuming it is even possible to do in the xbox360)?

Does this update, or even the standard software, permit VGA at 1080p72?
No. No 1080p24 either.

Are there any plans to offer an 1080p72 update in the future (assuming it is even possible to do in the xbox360)?
They are considering 1080p24.

]
A few quick questions for experts based on my tv. Since my tvs native resolution is 1366 x 768p should I watch my movies and play my video games at 720p or 1080i? Also should I purchase one of those calibration dvds? Is it worth the money and does it really help that much?

My TV has the same resolution, I notice sharper edges and brighter color in 1080i so I use that... 720p just looks a bit softer and no more stable.

You should definitely get a calibration DVD though, it will make a HUGE difference if you set everything up properly.

I watched Phantom of the Opera HD-DVD on my Pioneer VSX-815 via the XBOX 360 HD-DVD add on which was connected via optical cable with Dolby TrueHD selected so as to get the richness of the higher quality audio even though it was down rezzing the audio to regular DD and it sounded awesome on my 5.1!

I watched the same movie with everything being the same as mentioned above but with my new Onkyo TX-SR674 (optical again, TrueHD etc) and I maxed out the volume and it stunk! It sounded very low?

Both receivers were calibrated with an SPL, same room and same speakers.

Gets even more weird! I watched Stealth via PS3 thru Onkyo's HDMI and LPCM selected and it sounded insane awesome! Can't use the Pioneer for PS3 because no HDMI.

Anyways, what happened with Phantom? I even tried playing with the crossovers and it didn't make a difference.

Could it be that the Levels are set too low with the Onkyo? Also, I was actually shocked to see that the Onkyo had "Max" settings for the volume where my Pioneer didn't nor could I ever had maxed out Pioneer's receiver.

Holy Confused Batman!!

Does this update, or even the standard software, permit VGA at 1080p72?

I have not been able to find out so far what refresh rates the xbox360 supports, although everything points to only 50/60Hz.

For 60Hz presentation, 1080p24 native HD-DVD requires 3:2 pulldown thus "compromising" maximal quality progressive display. I'm wondering if the field insertion and possible blending required to support this refresh rate is resulting in the softer looking image via VGA compared to component, that has been commented on previously.

1080p72 would be very useful as an option to drive progressive CRT displays and should require less processing than 1080p60 (as it simply outputs the decoded 1080p24 frames 3 times).

Are there any plans to offer an 1080p72 update in the future (assuming it is even possible to do in the xbox360)?

It's my understanding that even though HD-DVD format supports a movie encode at 1080p24, most of them are 1080p30. In which case, the features you look for wouldn't be terribly helpful.
I could be wrong though.

^^^ No most (all?) movies on HD DVD are 1080p24 with flags added that facilitate 1080i60 playback.

For 60Hz presentation, 1080p24 native HD-DVD requires 3:2 pulldown thus "compromising" maximal quality progressive display. I'm wondering if the field insertion and possible blending required to support this refresh rate is resulting in the softer looking image via VGA compared to component, that has been commented on previously.

1080p72 would be very useful as an option to drive progressive CRT displays and should require less processing than 1080p60 (as it simply outputs the decoded 1080p24 frames 3 times).

Are there any plans to offer an 1080p72 update in the future (assuming it is even possible to do in the xbox360)?

Well, first of all 1080p VGA used to look softer than 1080p component, even when playing 360 games on my set and games should be 60 FPS without any gimmicks so there goes your pulldown theory. Second of all, both component and VGA run either 60 or 30 Hz, so pulldown is required on both. Better VGA cable brought much better VGA picture, almost as good as component in my case and that makes me wonder if finding even better VGA cable wouldn't make it even? VGA Monster Cable anyone? Keep in mind VGA cable has thinner wires and much smaller connectors than component 3 wire RCA design and at high frequency 1080p requires it may be important factor. Audiophiles claim they can hear a difference with better, thicker cables in the hearing frequency range, can this be similar with VGA? Also there must be some reason for computer industry to switch to DVI, maybe the high frequency limitations of analog signal were part of it?

Well, first of all 1080p VGA used to look softer than 1080p component, even when playing 360 games on my set and games should be 60 FPS without any gimmicks so there goes your pulldown theory. Second of all, both component and VGA run either 60 or 30 Hz, so pulldown is required on both. Better VGA cable brought much better VGA picture, almost as good as component in my case and that makes me wonder if finding even better VGA cable wouldn't make it even? VGA Monster Cable anyone? Keep in mind VGA cable has thinner wires and much smaller connectors than component 3 wire RCA design and at high frequency 1080p requires it may be important factor. Audiophiles claim they can hear a difference with better, thicker cables in the hearing frequency range, can this be similar with VGA? Also there must be some reason for computer industry to switch to DVI, maybe the high frequency limitations of analog signal were part of it?If you get the Xbox 360 HD VGA, it should be fine. It is designed and built for the Xbox 360. You can get it at eBay for less than $20..!
HD VGA (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360vgahdcable/)

Funny that you mentioned that. I rented few HD-DVD's from Blockbuster and after watching Polar Express I wasn't really impressed. Then I was testing my HD_DVD add on with my computer and it started playing the movie. It took me a while to figure they send me regular DVD in HD envelope. Amazingly, the Xbox360 did very good job of upscalling SD DVD to the point, it wasn't that obvious that DVD wasn't the real McCoy. Not sure if it was honest mistake, previous rental swaped the disc on purpose, or BB did it on purpose.


that same thing happened to me during my trial period with Netflix, i signed up for HDDVD's only and i was sent 2 movies which said they were HD DVD and when i put it in the movies they were boring DVD resolution and when i look at the envelope it read HD DVD but when i looked at the DVD it did not say the beautiful words HDDVD. So i returned them and canceled my membership before during my trial period. If this happened the first week of my trial i can imagine how many time it will happen in the future. Now i have BB online, let see how that goes, so far so good.

I rented PE from Netflix and the HDDVD was amazing! Big clue seems to be the logo opening, they like to do-up those openings! Hope you don't get blamed for the mix up!

with Netflix online they give you an option to complain about the DVD you received so i chose wrong DVD in envelope. But i like how conveniently they dont put a phone number online so u can call them and complain. I like to make verbal complaints.

I watched Phantom of the Opera HD-DVD on my Pioneer VSX-815 via the XBOX 360 HD-DVD add on which was connected via optical cable with Dolby TrueHD selected so as to get the richness of the higher quality audio even though it was down rezzing the audio to regular DD and it sounded awesome on my 5.1!

I watched the same movie with everything being the same as mentioned above but with my new Onkyo TX-SR674 (optical again, TrueHD etc) and I maxed out the volume and it stunk! It sounded very low?

Both receivers were calibrated with an SPL, same room and same speakers.

Gets even more weird! I watched Stealth via PS3 thru Onkyo's HDMI and LPCM selected and it sounded insane awesome! Can't use the Pioneer for PS3 because no HDMI.

Anyways, what happened with Phantom? I even tried playing with the crossovers and it didn't make a difference.

Could it be that the Levels are set too low with the Onkyo? Also, I was actually shocked to see that the Onkyo had "Max" settings for the volume where my Pioneer didn't nor could I ever had maxed out Pioneer's receiver.

Holy Confused Batman!!

I heard you wont be able to get TrueHD sound unless ur receiver has a HDMI 1.3 port which wont be available on receivers until the first quarter of 2007.

If you get the Xbox 360 HD VGA, it should be fine. It is designed and built for the Xbox 360. You can get it at eBay for less than $20..!
HD VGA (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360vgahdcable/)


oh wow i didnt know they came out with that cable. thats interesting since i have a pio 5070HD plasma. Do you and/or anyone else think I will get better PQ with the VGA or should i stick with component. My pioneer is capable of supporting a 1080P/24 signal.

oh wow i didnt know they came out with that cable. thats interesting since i have a pio 5070HD plasma. Do you and/or anyone else think I will get better PQ with the VGA or should i stick with component. My pioneer is capable of supporting a 1080P/24 signal.The HD PQ is comparable between the component and VGA. VGA has an ability to up-conversion the standard DVD ..! Xbox 360 HD VGA on eBay (http://cgi.*********/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150066407551&ssPageName=MERCOSI_VI_ROSI_PR4_PCN_BIX_Stores&refitem=150064536122&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=closed_view_item&refwidgettype=osi_widget)

I got my hand on a PS3 on friday and I got Underworld. It looks better that both King Kong and Riddick on the 360 add on. Much cleaner, crispier picture, and you can see a lot more detail in everything. Not to rag on the HD DVD format. I think it's has more to do with the add on than anything else. I'm thinking of selling it and getting the Toshiba player.

For the record, with my comparison shots, both the settings for Component and VGA, were done at the "standard" setting, on default. I figured making them equal as far as the TV's settings went, was most important, so thats what I did. I have calibration settings for both, but although I don't have pics to support it, I still found Component to be better, sharper more specifically, so the opinion that Component is better, on my TV at least, stands.

Wit hregards to overscan, I am not exactly sure what I am supposed to be seeing. The viewable area looks the same to me, but my eye may not be tuned to the difference, so if someone wants to point it out to me and tell me how to fix it, I would appreciate it.

I got my hand on a PS3 on friday and I got Underworld. It looks better that both King Kong and Riddick on the 360 add on. Much cleaner, crispier picture, and you can see a lot more detail in everything. Not to rag on the HD DVD format. I think it's has more to do with the add on than anything else. I'm thinking of selling it and getting the Toshiba player.
Try testing a couple of the dual format releases like Superman Returns, V for Vendetta or MI:3 on both the 360 add-on drive and PS3. You can't really compare different releases since they all have different HD transfers. I'd think those dual releases would have the same transfer, so that'd be a great comparison. Please do that before you return/sell the add-on and report back to us! :)

I have a SXRD 60 XBR2 and the original 1080p patch did not enable my monitor to display 1080p via VGA.

This newest patch also did nothing. I still get a distorted screen that says unsupported format, check pc output...

Does anyone else out there with the same monitor, the new SXRD, have success getting this to work?! Please help.

I heard you wont be able to get TrueHD sound unless ur receiver has a HDMI 1.3 port which wont be available on receivers until the first quarter of 2007.
No, HDMI 1.1 is all you need for linear PCM. But that has nothing to do with the Xbox 360. No HDMI is annouced for it. It could easily be 6 months before any type of Xbox with HDMI comes out.

I got my hand on a PS3 on friday and I got Underworld. It looks better that both King Kong and Riddick on the 360 add on. Much cleaner, crispier picture, and you can see a lot more detail in everything. Not to rag on the HD DVD format. I think it's has more to do with the add on than anything else. I'm thinking of selling it and getting the Toshiba player.It is not apple to apple comparison. I played several HD movies on the same Xbox 360 HD-DVD player. The PQ on each movie looks different on the same player. These movies are produced differently.

I bet if you can get an HD version of the Underworld and play it on Xbox HD-DVD player; it is probably comparable in PQ of the two formats.

It would be a valid comparison if you can compare Blue-Ray version of King Kong on PS3 w/ HD version of King Kong on Xbox HD-DVD. Please try it and you can report back to us.

I have a SXRD 60 XBR2 and the original 1080p patch did not enable my monitor to display 1080p via VGA.

This newest patch also did nothing. I still get a distorted screen that says unsupported format, check pc output...

Does anyone else out there with the same monitor, the new SXRD, have success getting this to work?! Please help.

This will never work. SXRD doesn't support sync on green.

It is not apple to apple comparison. I played several HD movies on the same Xbox 360 HD-DVD player. The PQ on each movie looks different on the same player. These movies are produced differently.

I bet if you can get an HD version of the Underworld and play it on Xbox HD-DVD player; it is probably comparable in PQ of the two formats.

It would be a valid comparison if you can compare Blue-Ray version of King Kong on PS3 w/ HD version of King Kong on Xbox HD-DVD. Please try it and you can report back to us.
can someone please do this comparison? i know there has got to be dozens of people here who have a ps3 and a 360 with hddvd add on ! lets compare. :)

It is not apple to apple comparison. I played several HD movies on the same Xbox 360 HD-DVD player. The PQ on each movie looks different on the same player. These movies are produced differently.

I bet if you can get an HD version of the Underworld and play it on Xbox HD-DVD player; it is probably comparable in PQ of the two formats.

It would be a valid comparison if you can compare Blue-Ray version of King Kong on PS3 w/ HD version of King Kong on Xbox HD-DVD. Please try it and you can report back to us.


King Kong isn't available for BlueRay and Underworld isn't available for HD-DVD. You're going to need to buy a movie that is from a studio that supports both formats. Probably the best candidate for this sort of testing would be Superman Returns.

I have MI 3 on HD, I will rent the BD version and compare them.

This will never work. SXRD doesn't support sync on green.
thats freakin wonderful

***attention Xbox 3650 Users, Dont Forget About The Special Halo 3 Commercial There Giving During Tonights Monday Night Footballl Game On Espnhd.

***attention Xbox 3650 Users, Dont Forget About The Special Halo 3 Commercial There Giving During Tonights Monday Night Footballl Game On Espnhd.
jus saw it SWEET

***attention Xbox 3650 Users, Dont Forget About The Special Halo 3 Commercial There Giving During Tonights Monday Night Footballl Game On Espnhd.
there it was. lol at "product not yet ready"

King Kong isn't available for BlueRay and Underworld isn't available for HD-DVD. You're going to need to buy a movie that is from a studio that supports both formats. Probably the best candidate for this sort of testing would be Superman Returns.


I got Superman Returns on HD DVD and the PQ is sick, especially the airplane scene. I love this new version of Superman, I laugh when i see the original version of supeman parts 1-5 and this new superman is perfect, looks like Christopher Reeves. wow. I watched it 3 times.

Further, I highly doubt that the BD version of underworld is better then HD DVD King Kong. Impossible. Thank god i was not born in the 1800s.

Sorry for the Rant.

jus saw it SWEET



yea kool, but to short of a commercial i thought it be at least 2 mins and at least in 720p not compressed 480p if that

there it was. lol at "product not yet ready"


its not , wow wat takes so long, its goin to b like the PS3, 100 bugs and upgrades.

King Kong isn't available for BlueRay and Underworld isn't available for HD-DVD. You're going to need to buy a movie that is from a studio that supports both formats. Probably the best candidate for this sort of testing would be Superman Returns.16Blocks, Firewall, Italian Job, The Last Samurai, Th Lake House and Sahara are dual format movies. It can be compared between the two formats.

yea kool, but to short of a commercial i thought it be at least 2 mins and at least in 720p not compressed 480p if that

The 720p version is on Live.

The 720p version is on Live.


oh is that right ok ima go check it out then, thanks for the advice. But is it the same as the commercial that they showed on tv?

> Now bring on HDMI!!!!!!!

Sure, when they have a new Xbox 360 hardware design (probably late 2007).

Hong.

Actually, the 360 is capable of digital output now. Check out this older Q&A to Microsoft on IGN: http://gear.ign.com/articles/735/735860p1.html

Scroll down to the 9/28 update. Note in that paragraph:
"Our platform is flexible enough to allow support of a digital connection in the future should we choose to do so."

"If we choose to do so" is the operative phrase here, but it at least rests my mind at ease that the 360 can output a digital signal.

It baffles me why Microsoft doesn't release an HDMI cable now...unless it's a pure marketing reason in the console war.

here some pics of the new skin, cell phone pics, no digicam yet. sorry

Actually, the 360 is capable of digital output now. Check out this older Q&A to Microsoft on IGN: http://gear.ign.com/articles/735/735860p1.html

Scroll down to the 9/28 update. Note in that paragraph:
"Our platform is flexible enough to allow support of a digital connection in the future should we choose to do so."

"If we choose to do so" is the operative phrase here, but it at least rests my mind at ease that the 360 can output a digital signal.

It baffles me why Microsoft doesn't release an HDMI cable now...unless it's a pure marketing reason in the console war.

This has been discussed before. The GPU in the XBOX is able to output a digital signal. Unfortunately, the digital signal paths are NOT connected to the XBOX's video out connector. This means it will require more than just a simple cable for the XBOX to support HDMI.

So, yes, the XBOX is able to support a digital connection, in the future - exactly what the original article stated. But it will most likely require a hardware revision, hence the addition "in the future, if we choose to do so".

Think about it - a simple HDMI cable would enable real support for DTS-HD and TrueHD. Which marketing department would not jump into that opportunity if all it needed was a simple cable?

Good review from Eurogamer:
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=70652

there it was. lol at "product not yet ready"
not yet rated...NOT YET RATED!!!!!! Every new video game commerical has that in it because it has not been through the ESRB in order to determine its rating.

This will never work. SXRD doesn't support sync on green.
Will this please die, this is not the case and never was. People are just posting this incorrect crap all of the time. Guess what, the xbr2 lcds do not support sync on green either and the patch fixed them!!

This has been discussed before. The GPU in the XBOX is able to output a digital signal. Unfortunately, the digital signal paths are NOT connected to the XBOX's video out connector. This means it will require more than just a simple cable for the XBOX to support HDMI.

So, yes, the XBOX is able to support a digital connection, in the future - exactly what the original article stated. But it will most likely require a hardware revision, hence the addition "in the future, if we choose to do so".

Think about it - a simple HDMI cable would enable real support for DTS-HD and TrueHD. Which marketing department would not jump into that opportunity if all it needed was a simple cable?They'll not release the entire features and options in a single release of Xbox. They'll always release the new Xbox w/ new features and options. It'll make their next Xbox interesting and attract new and return customer in the future. It is very smart marketing by Microsoft.

For the technical minded, every Xbox involves w/ technical challenges to Xbox engineers. But they'll always find way to release the next Xbox w/ new features and options.

Let me reiterate my opinion on HDMI again, it could very well be just HDMI cable and appropriate firmware to support it would do the trick. For sure, it’ll not be cheap. There is all kind of rumors. I guess we’ll have to find out. Interesting articles:
Xbox 360 - It's Real! (http://www.trustedreviews.com/gaming/news/2005/08/24/Xbox-360-Spotted-at-IDF/p1)
Will Xbox 360 have an HDMI output? (http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/hdmi-on-a-xbox-360-coming-soon-198495.php)

Eurogamers has posted a screenshot gallery of King Kong HD DVD direct feed captures! Click on "View Original" at the top:

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=70679

Try testing a couple of the dual format releases like Superman Returns, V for Vendetta or MI:3 on both the 360 add-on drive and PS3. You can't really compare different releases since they all have different HD transfers. I'd think those dual releases would have the same transfer, so that'd be a great comparison. Please do that before you return/sell the add-on and report back to us! :)

Well I did that last night and tested MI3, my buddy has a 360 add-on also so he bought the BR version of the movie since I have the HD version. Picture is a bit more detailed on the PS3, but there is also more "grain" in some scenes. The same scenes on the HD have "grain" but there just a bit less of it. The "grain" seems to have been added to the movie. It doesn't look like a bad transfer. Some studios think it enhances the "movie" mood/experience, but I do not think so. I like my HD movies "grain" free.
The sound on the other hand is A LOT better on the PS3. Not only is it louder, but it's crispier and more detailed. Some things I heard on the PS3 that I wasn't able to on the 360 add-on (I did turn up the volume, so that's not it). The sound is weird on the add-on, for some reason, in action scenes it seem that all the sound effects get muted down once stuff starts blowing apart. On the PS3 it's constant, but on the 360 add-on it gets muted once action starts. I'm quite confused over this. Sound very weird. I hope the patch Amir talked about fixes this problem.
So the only reason why I would return it now would be for better sound. Picture doesn't seem to affected by the 360 add-on vs the Toshiba HD player. But sound is grately. I'm kinda worried they won't be able to fix it,b ut we'll see.

On the PS3 it's constant, but on the 360 add-on it gets muted once action starts. I'm quite confused over this. Sound very weird. I hope the patch Amir talked about fixes this problem.

In an odd note, if you had a PS2 and Xbox you could also note that the Playstation content, movies or games was always louder than the Xbox. I always needed to adjust the volume between the 2.

In the back of my mind I expected the PS3 to generally be set louder than the 360 and sure enough I have them both and the trend continues...

Well I did that last night and tested MI3, my buddy has a 360 add-on also so he bought the BR version of the movie since I have the HD version. Picture is a bit more detailed on the PS3, but there is also more "grain" in some scenes. The same scenes on the HD have "grain" but there just a bit less of it. The "grain" seems to have been added to the movie. It doesn't look like a bad transfer. Some studios think it enhances the "movie" mood/experience, but I do not think so. I like my HD movies "grain" free.
The sound on the other hand is A LOT better on the PS3. Not only is it louder, but it's crispier and more detailed. Some things I heard on the PS3 that I wasn't able to on the 360 add-on (I did turn up the volume, so that's not it). The sound is weird on the add-on, for some reason, in action scenes it seem that all the sound effects get muted down once stuff starts blowing apart. On the PS3 it's constant, but on the 360 add-on it gets muted once action starts. I'm quite confused over this. Sound very weird. I hope the patch Amir talked about fixes this problem.
So the only reason why I would return it now would be for better sound. Picture doesn't seem to affected by the 360 add-on vs the Toshiba HD player. But sound is grately. I'm kinda worried they won't be able to fix it,b ut we'll see.You're still not comparing apple to the apple. You need to compare BR and HD MI3 from the same setup. The different should only be PS3 and Xbox 360 HD. The TV set and surround sound system have to be in the same setup at the same room. As you may be aware of it, the TV set and surround sound system are calibrated and set differently. Not to mention, the brand, the cable and environment are different between your setup and your friend. It is guaranteed to looks and sounds differently..!

If you tested it on the same setup, it would be valid and please ignore the above comment. Another thing too, it might not be the hardware. It might be the way they produced this film in HD and BR format. The BR format might very be a better reproduction of MI3..!

Quick question here, and maybe it's a dumb one I dunno. I have a rear projection LCD 720p display. If I get the HD-DVD add-on, should I expect the HD-DVD picture quality to be the same as what I see when I download 720p movie trailers from Live Marketplace? Or would the HD-DVD quality somehow be better/worse/different?

Just trying to decide if it's worth investing in the HD-DVD drive, versus my current Oppo upconverting dvd player, wondering if those 720p trailers are good examples of the quality I can expect to see.

Thanks!

Quick question here, and maybe it's a dumb one I dunno. I have a rear projection LCD 720p display. If I get the HD-DVD add-on, should I expect the HD-DVD picture quality to be the same as what I see when I download 720p movie trailers from Live Marketplace? Or would the HD-DVD quality somehow be better/worse/different?

Just trying to decide if it's worth investing in the HD-DVD drive, versus my current Oppo upconverting dvd player, wondering if those 720p trailers are good examples of the quality I can expect to see.

Thanks!

I am using the HD DVD with 720p on a Sanyo Z4, I also have an oppo player and there is no comparison between upconverted dvd and hd dvd, hd dvd wins hands down, honestly... There is no contest.

I am using the HD DVD with 720p on a Sanyo Z4, I also have an oppo player and there is no comparison between upconverted dvd and hd dvd, hd dvd wins hands down, honestly... There is no contest.

Thanks for the quick reply, that's what I figured. Have you compared the HD-DVD quality vs. the downloadable 720p content on Marketplace? I'm guessing there really isn't much of a difference?

You're still not comparing apple to the apple. You need to compare BR and HD MI3 from the same setup. The different should only be PS3 and Xbox 360 HD. The TV set and surround sound system have to be in the same setup at the same room. As you may be aware of it, the TV set and surround sound system are calibrated and set differently. Not to mention, the brand, the cable and environment are different between your setup and your friend. It is guaranteed to looks and sounds differently..!

If you tested it on the same setup, it would be valid and please ignore the above comment. Another thing too, it might not be the hardware. It might be the way they produced this film in HD and BR format. The BR format might very be a better reproduction of MI3..!

It was the same set up. I have both he just brought the 2nd copy of MI3. I don't think it's the format. It has something to do with the way the 360/add-on is processing the DD+. DTS and True HD sound great. DD+ sounds very muted and shallow, even when I turn it up it sound less dynamic.

Quick question here, and maybe it's a dumb one I dunno. I have a rear projection LCD 720p display. If I get the HD-DVD add-on, should I expect the HD-DVD picture quality to be the same as what I see when I download 720p movie trailers from Live Marketplace? Or would the HD-DVD quality somehow be better/worse/different?

Just trying to decide if it's worth investing in the HD-DVD drive, versus my current Oppo upconverting dvd player, wondering if those 720p trailers are good examples of the quality I can expect to see.

Thanks!

I highly doubt you can compare an upconverting dvd with a HD DVD player, i have both and i definately prefer the HD DVD addon then upconverting, the PQ is a lot better on HD DVD. Also, displaying it on a pioneer 5070HD plasma the picture looks awesome in 1080i and 720p I watched superman returns 4 times already since saturday. Im sure you will see a difference in PQ on ur display also.

It was the same set up. I have both he just brought the 2nd copy of MI3. I don't think it's the format. It has something to do with the way the 360/add-on is processing the DD+. DTS and True HD sound great. DD+ sounds very muted and shallow, even when I turn it up it sound less dynamic.Does PS3 use optical for audio? Xbox 360 use optical connection. Xbox 360 audio is weak on my HT system compares to my HTPC too. Microsoft might need to come up with the firmware to fix it.

Eurogamers has posted a screenshot gallery of King Kong HD DVD direct feed captures! Click on "View Original" at the top:

link]

Thanks for that!

Does PS3 use optical for audio? Xbox 360 use optical connection. Xbox 360 audio is weak on my HT system compares to my HTPC too. Microsoft might need to come up with the firmware to fix it.

Yea I have it through optical. They are working on something. Amir said they're working on adding DTS. So hopefuly that will fix a few problems. We'll have to wait and see

I highly doubt you can compare an upconverting dvd with a HD DVD player, i have both and i definately prefer the HD DVD addon then upconverting, the PQ is a lot better on HD DVD. Also, displaying it on a pioneer 5070HD plasma the picture looks awesome in 1080i and 720p I watched superman returns 4 times already since saturday. Im sure you will see a difference in PQ on ur display also.

May I also add that when using VGA connection Xbox360 is pretty good upscalling SD-DVD player all by itself.

I agree. I think it is near as good as my HTPC. Although it would be nice if they could add a 3-D noise reduction filter to clean up bad dvd's.

Thanks for the quick reply, that's what I figured. Have you compared the HD-DVD quality vs. the downloadable 720p content on Marketplace? I'm guessing there really isn't much of a difference?

Those 720p trailers on Xbox live marketplace usually look very nice and considering that they're getting scaled to 1080 anyway on 1080 sets this is definitely nice hd.

At the same time having watched plenty of them and watching hd-dvd there is a difference and yes hd-dvd quality is definitely better. The high res and detail is probably subtle for most people but if you watch it for any amount of time you can see that the hd-dvd transfers are 'smoother', color pops a bit more and just all around a notch higher PQ.

720p Live content is no slouch but the high def dvd's with good source and transfers are just pristine and bring out the best in whatever display you have.

On audio, not that there aren't some real issues but many people simply interpret louder levels as better audio ('blowing them away') so it's odd to me that Xbox and hd-dvd authoring would default to lower levels than what happens on Playstation.

Well, first of all 1080p VGA used to look softer than 1080p component, even when playing 360 games on my set and games should be 60 FPS without any gimmicks so there goes your pulldown theory. Second of all, both component and VGA run either 60 or 30 Hz, so pulldown is required on both. Better VGA cable brought much better VGA picture, almost as good as component in my case and that makes me wonder if finding even better VGA cable wouldn't make it even? VGA Monster Cable anyone? Keep in mind VGA cable has thinner wires and much smaller connectors than component 3 wire RCA design and at high frequency 1080p requires it may be important factor. Audiophiles claim they can hear a difference with better, thicker cables in the hearing frequency range, can this be similar with VGA? Also there must be some reason for computer industry to switch to DVI, maybe the high frequency limitations of analog signal were part of it?

I have the Monster VGA cable and I think component looks better (better color saturation). What I hate is that Monster requires you to buy an additional optical wire that snaps into a proprietary port on the VGA cable if you want the 5.1. WTF?

It was the same set up. I have both he just brought the 2nd copy of MI3. I don't think it's the format. It has something to do with the way the 360/add-on is processing the DD+. DTS and True HD sound great. DD+ sounds very muted and shallow, even when I turn it up it sound less dynamic.


Are you talking about True-HD on the 360 Add-on or the PS3 ? Correct me if I am wrong but as mentioned in a few other posts it is not possible to get the True-HD from the Add-on yet right ?? I was told that the only way to get True-HD sound is by using the 5-Channel inputs on the receiver which cannot be done from the xbox. Is this a true statement ?

Those 720p trailers on Xbox live marketplace usually look very nice and considering that they're getting scaled to 1080 anyway on 1080 sets this is definitely nice hd.

At the same time having watched plenty of them and watching hd-dvd there is a difference and yes hd-dvd quality is definitely better. The high res and detail is probably subtle for most people but if you watch it for any amount of time you can see that the hd-dvd transfers are 'smoother', color pops a bit more and just all around a notch higher PQ.

720p Live content is no slouch but the high def dvd's with good source and transfers are just pristine and bring out the best in whatever display you have.

Wasn't expecting to hear that actually, but very good to hear. Now I'm even more tempted to go buy one. :) Thanks for the info!

May I also add that when using VGA connection Xbox360 is pretty good upscalling SD-DVD player all by itself.


Yea i guess, but this guy wants to compare HD DVD with SD DVD upconverted, there is no comparison whatsoever and never will be especially when HDMI 1.3 comes out enabling more colors and True HD sound. Something to look forward to other then a HDMI cable for our 360. :rolleyes:

720p Live content is no slouch but the high def dvd's with good source and transfers are just pristine and bring out the best in whatever display you have.



I would not say whatever display you have. thats not true.

Thanks for the quick reply, that's what I figured. Have you compared the HD-DVD quality vs. the downloadable 720p content on Marketplace? I'm guessing there really isn't much of a difference?

I haven't checked out the downloadable 720p content, but I have read on here, that the HD-DVD drive has much better picture quality than the downloaded stuff

Have you compared the HD-DVD quality vs. the downloadable 720p content on Marketplace? I'm guessing there really isn't much of a difference?


Here is a more scientific comparison:
http://xyhd.tv/2006/12/03/why-xbox-live-video-marketplace-competes-well-with-visually-with-hddvd.aspx

It was the same set up. I have both he just brought the 2nd copy of MI3. I don't think it's the format. It has something to do with the way the 360/add-on is processing the DD+. DTS and True HD sound great. DD+ sounds very muted and shallow, even when I turn it up it sound less dynamic.


interesting, I only have king kong right now, and it DD+. Have to grab a movie that is true HD or DTS and check it out. Is superman returns true HD or DTS?

Does PS3 use optical for audio? Xbox 360 use optical connection. Xbox 360 audio is weak on my HT system compares to my HTPC too. Microsoft might need to come up with the firmware to fix it.

really? I think my xbox 360 sounds amazing on my system, but the HD-DVD drive sounds not nearly impressive

interesting, I only have king kong right now, and it DD+. Have to grab a movie that is true HD or DTS and check it out. Is superman returns true HD or DTS?

TrueHD

Yea i guess, but this guy wants to compare HD DVD with SD DVD upconverted, there is no comparison whatsoever and never will be especially when HDMI 1.3 comes out enabling more colors and True HD sound. Something to look forward to other then a HDMI cable for our 360. :rolleyes:

Actually 1.3 will do nothing for the color. It requires that the movies be "deep color" and they are not and for HD DVD or BR disks they never will be. The TV also has to be "deep color" compatable.

It will be next gen HD products that will use it, maybe, not HD DVD or BR.

I haven't checked out the downloadable 720p content, but I have read on here, that the HD-DVD drive has much better picture quality than the downloaded stuff

And it should. Most HD DVD content is in 1080P. The downlaodable content is in 720P. But for a 6GB movie at 720P it does look good.

Are you talking about TrueHD on the 360 Add-on or the PS3 ? Correct me if I am wrong but as mentioned in a few other posts it is not possible to get the TrueHD from the Add-on yet right ?? I was told that the only way to get TrueHD sound is by using the 5-Channel inputs on the receiver which cannot be done from the xbox. Is this a true statement ?

TrueHD is a lossless codec and the bitrate is quite alot higher than the optical or coax cable is capable of transferring to ANY home theater receiver.

The only way to get the "uncompressed" audio from TrueHD is via HDMI (eventually) or over 6 channel stereo analog connections. Over optical or coax the audio is converted down to either Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS depending on your player.

Many people who have heard Dolby Digital on other HD-DVD players agree that Microsofts implementation is flawed and Microsoft is looking into this. Amirm said they are working on the problem and that they are also working on a DTS encoder so that Dolby Digital and TrueHD are converted to 1.5 MB DTS instead of Dolby Digital 5.1 which is capped at 640KB.

I can speak from experience though that the True HD soundtracks however still sound awesome even though they are capped at 640KB on the 360. If you have a movie that supports it you definitely want to set it to the TrueHD track.

TIMT

Actually 1.3 will do nothing for the color. It requires that the movies be "deep color" and they are not and for HD DVD or BR disks they never will be. The TV also has to be "deep color" compatable.

It will be next gen HD products that will use it, maybe, not HD DVD or BR.


Not that I'm questioning your knowledge as I haven't looked into this before, but can you state any articles or websites that explain this further? This is the first I have heard about this and would like to read more on the subject.

TimT

And it should. Most HD DVD content is in 1080P. The downlaodable content is in 720P. But for a 6GB movie at 720P it does look good.

Some of the shows look pretty awesome in HD as well, although I can usually download something of the same quality from "the usual sources" when I miss an episode of Jericho or something.

Has anybody besides me noticed that Microsoft quietly started adding the HD versions of some of the remastered Star Trek episodes. Their marketing group must be asleep at the wheel as alot of people complained that they weren't available at launch.

They look absolutely incredible and although the CGI ships don't look as nice as I had hoped it's still very true to the original material. The odd thing is that the space scenes display at 16X9 and the rest of the show is 4X3. They have greatly improved the download speeds as well, I was able to get "Space Seed" in less than an hour now that everybody isn't beating on it at the same time.

Microsoft's got a pretty awesome setup going with the TV show's and movies. Now all they need to do is introduce an HDMI Cable, Bigger Hard Drives and get more shows and movies on it and I can start looking at getting rid of cable. Although a Subscription model for networks would be nice as well. I don't need all those other channels, just CBSHD, NBCHD, ABCHD, SCIFI (in HD of course) and possibly HBO and SHOWTIME, oh and CW for Supernatural and FOX for Bones and Simpsons/Family Guy/American Dad.

I guess it will be a while, these studios still haven't figured it out just yet. But they are starting to.

TIMT

Not that I'm questioning your knowledge as I haven't looked into this before, but can you state any articles or websites that explain this further? This is the first I have heard about this and would like to read more on the subject.

TimT


Just do s serch here for "deep color" and you should get quite a few threads that discuss it at length.

It's rather disappointing to see all that will be required to get "deep color". Good luck.

Just do s serch here for "deep color" and you should get quite a few threads that discuss it at length.

It's rather disappointing to see all that will be required to get "deep color". Good luck.

Well wonders never cease. Everybody who has been touting HDMI 1.3, especially when talking about Blue Ray neglects to state that if your TV doesn't support HDMI 1.3 and the Blue Ray movie doesn't have the extra color information it's not going to mean jack.

Guess I'm glad I can enjoy what I currently have.

TimT

Let the HDMI 1.3 experience begin.

Actually 1.3 will do nothing for the color. It requires that the movies be "deep color" and they are not and for HD DVD or BR disks they never will be. The TV also has to be "deep color" compatable.

It will be next gen HD products that will use it, maybe, not HD DVD or BR.


i dont know about that. We will just have to wait and see. I still think the colors will be more punchier also at least the sound will be awesome. HD DVD and/or BD thru my Pioneer 5070 and True HD thru the new Pioneer receiver with HDMI 1.3 due out first quarter of 2007 thats all i reallly need for awhile. Im sure they will start making and/or reproducing movies especially for HDMI 1.3 just like they did for HD DVD and BD. Its a money maker.

I really wish the 360 had hdmi! :mad:

I really wish the 360 had hdmi! :mad:
true

Whats wrong with VGA? 1920x1080P over VGA looks excellent!

really? I think my xbox 360 sounds amazing on my system, but the HD-DVD drive sounds not nearly impressiveNot to say that Xbox 360 sounded terribly bad. It is okay, but it is not up to par w/ my HTPC and HT surround sound systems. I guess I got used to the louder 6.1 and 7.1 of my other surround sound systems.

The major complains I have for Xbox 360 is the lack of better audio output and the lighter exterior color. It doesn't blend in w/ my black HT and HTPC setup well.

Any how, I enjoy having the Xbox 360 and its HD-DVD add-on. For what it cost, the Xbox 360 and its HD-DVD add-on are worth it. With the new Xbox 360 and its HD-DVD, I end up w/ four DVD players and an HD-DVD player. Anyone need one?

TrueHD is a lossless codec and the bitrate is quite alot higher than the optical or coax cable is capable of transferring to ANY home theater receiver.

The only way to get the "uncompressed" audio from TrueHD is via HDMI (eventually) or over 6 channel stereo analog connections. Over optical or coax the audio is converted down to either Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS depending on your player.

Many people who have heard Dolby Digital on other HD-DVD players agree that Microsofts implementation is flawed and Microsoft is looking into this. Amirm said they are working on the problem and that they are also working on a DTS encoder so that Dolby Digital and TrueHD are converted to 1.5 MB DTS instead of Dolby Digital 5.1 which is capped at 640KB.

I can speak from experience though that the True HD soundtracks however still sound awesome even though they are capped at 640KB on the 360. If you have a movie that supports it you definitely want to set it to the TrueHD track.

TIMT


But how are you able to hear the True-HD track if the 360 only supports optical connection ? I can set my 360 to True-HD but I am assuming that it just lets me select it but it is not really decoding in True-HD.

I want to buy the HD-DVD player for my XBOX-360... But I want to make sure that most if not all movies available in HD are actually HD meaning 1080p or 1080i... I don't want to buy an HD-DVD title and have it be in 720...

Is there a standard for this? Or is there a standard that says that all HD-DVD titles must be in 1080p?

I want to buy the HD-DVD player for my XBOX-360... But I want to make sure that most if not all movies available in HD are actually HD meaning 1080p or 1080i... I don't want to buy an HD-DVD title and have it be in 720...

Is there a standard for this? Or is there a standard that says that all HD-DVD titles must be in 1080p?

I believe there is. All movies i know of are 1080p.

However, keep in mind, it's far more important how well it was transfered to HD-DVD than it's resolution. A well mastered 720p movie will look light years better than a rushed 1080p movie.

I believe there is. All movies i know of are 1080p.

However, keep in mind, it's far more important how well it was transfered to HD-DVD than it's resolution. A well mastered 720p movie will look light years better than a rushed 1080p movie.

Or if the original negative was in a poor state. It's a combination of so many factors to find a really well done DVD of any resolution. Best is to read reviews BEFORE you purchase. You will get an earfull of opinions and maybe that will help the buying process. I do believe all HD-DVDs and BR for that matter are mastered in 1080P and your player takes it from there and does what it needs to show it on your system.

I really wish the 360 had hdmi! :mad:

I think you mean:

"I really wish the 360 had a way to output digital video."

The question is bigger than HDMI, it's the fact that 360 right now outputs video analog. That is why they can't just release a cable. They *might* be able to release something that connects to a USB port that will output HDMI, but there is no reason to dwell on it because not enough people are complaining about the lack of a digital video output to get MS doing anything.

I want to buy the HD-DVD player for my XBOX-360... But I want to make sure that most if not all movies available in HD are actually HD meaning 1080p or 1080i... I don't want to buy an HD-DVD title and have it be in 720...

Is there a standard for this? Or is there a standard that says that all HD-DVD titles must be in 1080p?HD DVD resolutions should not be your top concerns. You should be paying close attention to how they produce it and how well they converted it to HD format. Movie review site is a good place to start. DVD Review (http://www.dvdreview.com/reviews/hddvdreviews.html) I watched a lot of HD Movies lately. It varies in PQ and AQ. The sitting distance and screen size have a lot to do w/ the outcome of the resolutions.

My suggestion is, getting the HD-DVD player and enjoying HD movies you like instead of worrying about which movie will look better on your set. All HD DVD is very good compared to the standard definition DVD.

This is a great thread for it: 720P vs 1080P (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=542817)

I think you mean:

"I really wish the 360 had a way to output digital video."

The question is bigger than HDMI, it's the fact that 360 right now outputs video analog. That is why they can't just release a cable. They *might* be able to release something that connects to a USB port that will output HDMI, but there is no reason to dwell on it because not enough people are complaining about the lack of a digital video output to get MS doing anything.I think he/she referred to audio output. Most of us want a better audio output than the current 5.1 through optical.

Most of us are satisfied with HD PQ.

But how are you able to hear the True-HD track if the 360 only supports optical connection ? I can set my 360 to True-HD but I am assuming that it just lets me select it but it is not really decoding in True-HD.

You can hear the TrueHD track on the 360 because it does decode it, but it down converts it to 640KB Dolby Digital 5.1

So while it's not nearly as good as it will sound if you have a player that supports analog out (for the true oncompressed audio), it still sounds better than the Dolby Digital + tracks on most HD-DVD's

Granted there is a problem supposedly with the Dolby Digital + output on the XBOX 360, but I think it sounds clearer than the same track on SD-DVD, just the base and volume are lower.

But if Microsoft comes through and adds a DTS Encoder so that the Dolby Digital+ and TrueHD tracks are down converted to DTS 1.5MB thats going to sound even better.

TimT

I want to buy the HD-DVD player for my XBOX-360... But I want to make sure that most if not all movies available in HD are actually HD meaning 1080p or 1080i... I don't want to buy an HD-DVD title and have it be in 720...

Is there a standard for this? Or is there a standard that says that all HD-DVD titles must be in 1080p?

Unless I'm mistaken and I don't think I am, all HD-DVD is mastered at 1080p as is BR.

TimT

Im glad I read this thread before opening my newly purchased HD-DVD addon. No 1080p over component is a letdown. I have a Samsung 5087 so 1080p is important for me, and I dont want to buy a VGA cable. Ive heard too much that VGA cables degrade the game picture which isnt worth it for me. Looks like I have to spend the extra money for a standalone HDDVD player.

Whats wrong with VGA? 1920x1080P over VGA looks excellent!

Nothing wrong with VGA, except my set has no VGA input.

Im glad I read this thread before opening my newly purchased HD-DVD addon. No 1080p over component is a letdown. I have a Samsung 5087 so 1080p is important for me, and I dont want to buy a VGA cable. Ive heard too much that VGA cables degrade the game picture which isnt worth it for me. Looks like I have to spend the extra money for a standalone HDDVD player.

LOL im playing hd dvd ad on with component 1080i, looks great, i thought it would not look so good, but it looks great. Good return the ad on and let someone else have it :D

Not to say that Xbox 360 sounded terribly bad. It is okay, but it is not up to par w/ my HTPC and HT surround sound systems. I guess I got used to the louder 6.1 and 7.1 of my other surround sound systems.

The major complains I have for Xbox 360 is the lack of better audio output and the lighter exterior color. It doesn't blend in w/ my black HT and HTPC setup well.

Any how, I enjoy having the Xbox 360 and its HD-DVD add-on. For what it cost, the Xbox 360 and its HD-DVD add-on are worth it. With the new Xbox 360 and its HD-DVD, I end up w/ four DVD players and an HD-DVD player. Anyone need one?
Louder isn't necessarily better.
http://www.cdmasteringservices.com/dynamicrange.htm

Im glad I read this thread before opening my newly purchased HD-DVD addon. No 1080p over component is a letdown. I have a Samsung 5087 so 1080p is important for me, and I dont want to buy a VGA cable. Ive heard too much that VGA cables degrade the game picture which isnt worth it for me. Looks like I have to spend the extra money for a standalone HDDVD player.

You will never be able to play bluray or Hd-dvd disk in 1080p over component on any player.

If I get the Xbox 360 HD player for a 2001 mits HDTV, do I need to buy a cable to get the best PQ or does it come with it?

Not legally anyway. Just wait until the DeCSS people get done with AACS and the chip modding people get cracking on the 360... :D

If I get the Xbox 360 HD player for a 2001 mits HDTV, do I need to buy a cable to get the best PQ or does it come with it?

You simply connect it to your Xbox 360 with the included USB 2.0 cable, and the video is passed through whatever cables you're currently using for your Xbox 360. At that point you have the option of using component cables or a VGA cable, but you don't need an add'l cable over what you're already using for your 360. Assuming your 2001 mits is not 1080p, then component cables will be fine. Unless you want it to upconvert standard DVDs to 720p or 1080i, then you would need to use a VGA cable.

You simply connect it to your Xbox 360 with the included USB 2.0 cable, and the video is passed through whatever cables you're currently using for your Xbox 360. At that point you have the option of using component cables or a VGA cable, but you don't need an add'l cable over what you're already using for your 360. Assuming your 2001 mits is not 1080p, then component cables will be fine. Unless you want it to upconvert standard DVDs to 720p or 1080i, then you would need to use a VGA cable.


The TV is 1080i and its for a Christmas gift. Will the component or VGA cable give the best picture? And are both included with the 360 HD player, thanks.

The TV is 1080i and its for a Christmas gift. Will the component or VGA cable give the best picture? And are both included with the 360 HD player, thanks.

At 1080i, you will get the same picture out of component or VGA. The VGA adapter is a separate purchase. The 360 add-on doesn't come with any cables for your tv, but component came with your XBOX 360, if you buy the premium version and that's all you need.

The TV is 1080i and its for a Christmas gift. Will the component or VGA cable give the best picture? And are both included with the 360 HD player, thanks.

On a 1080i TV, stick with component.

Cables aren't included with the HD DVD player, but component cables do come with the Xbox 360 preimum package. If you're buying a gift for someone who already owns the Xbox, that's probably how they have it hooked up now.

You don't need a new set for the player, because it connects to the Xbox with a USB cable -- which is included.

While I have the floor, I'll say again that this purchase is an absolute no-brainer for every Xbox 360 owner. PQ is astounding, and the price can't be beat. I look forward to watching all my old favorites again when they are released on HD DVD. It'll be like seeing them in the theater, except without cell-phone jabberers, sticky floors and $2 Cokes.

Louder isn't necessarily better.
http://www.cdmasteringservices.com/dynamicrange.htmWhat I meant is a louder bass. I have two subs, and it is very loud w/ my HTPC and HT. I always like the louder bass sound in the movie. The surround speakers sounded okay on Xbox 360, but it is missing some surrounds sound compared to my 6.1/7.1 HTPC and HT.

But I can't complain for what it costs, and it is playing HD movie very well.

The TV is 1080i and its for a Christmas gift. Will the component or VGA cable give the best picture? And are both included with the 360 HD player, thanks.

Desmond, I'd be careful with VGA on that 2001 Mitsubishi. I have a 65" WS-65857 which I bought in late 2000 and it has a VGA input, but it only supports something like 640x480. You need to check the VGA specs for the model set you have.

You won't regret 1080i over component. I'm using my HD-DVD add-on on a Sony 50" 720p set and 720p looks awesome over component. I'm almost tempted to move the XBOX 360 system downstairs and use it with my aging 65" Mitsubishi 1080i CRT.

What I meant is a louder bass. I have two subs, and it is very loud w/ my HTPC and HT. I always like the louder bass sound in the movie. The surround speakers sounded okay on Xbox 360, but it is missing some surrounds sound compared to my 6.1/7.1 HTPC and HT.

But I can't complain for what it costs, and it is playing HD movie very well.

Have you calibrated the audio for the 360? Just like video every source can be different for audio and needs to be calibrated.

You can hear the TrueHD track on the 360 because it does decode it, but it down converts it to 640KB Dolby Digital 5.1

So while it's not nearly as good as it will sound if you have a player that supports analog out (for the true oncompressed audio), it still sounds better than the Dolby Digital + tracks on most HD-DVD's

Granted there is a problem supposedly with the Dolby Digital + output on the XBOX 360, but I think it sounds clearer than the same track on SD-DVD, just the base and volume are lower.

But if Microsoft comes through and adds a DTS Encoder so that the Dolby Digital+ and TrueHD tracks are down converted to DTS 1.5MB thats going to sound even better.

TimT

Got it.

Thanks Tim !!

Whats wrong with VGA? 1920x1080P over VGA looks excellent!


hey, do you think its worth investing in a VGA cable? will i get better resolution?

Check out these links from a guy who did a great comparison of VGA and Component, with same setup.

http://www.psychedelic.co.nz/360-vg...component-1.JPG
http://www.psychedelic.co.nz/360-vga-vs-comp/component-2.JPG
www.psychedelic.co.nz/360-vga-vs-comp/vga-1.jpg
www.psychedelic.co.nz/360-vga-vs-comp/vga-2.jpg

or better yet just go here

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9097922#post9097922

What I meant is a louder bass. I have two subs, and it is very loud w/ my HTPC and HT. I always like the louder bass sound in the movie. The surround speakers sounded okay on Xbox 360, but it is missing some surrounds sound compared to my 6.1/7.1 HTPC and HT.

But I can't complain for what it costs, and it is playing HD movie very well.


Two Subs, jeez glad I don't live under you.

I have an HTPC and I use a Turtle Beach Motego DDL sound card that is hooked up to my Sony Receiver via optical.

I get the same audio with my XBOX 360 as I do with my HTPC if I Play the same DVD on the 360. Not sure why you would get better audio unless your sound card is one of the higher end variety. I know there is one that converts all audio into DTS instead of Dolby Digital. I may pick that up some day.

TimT

Two Subs, jeez glad I don't live under you.

I have an HTPC and I use a Turtle Beach Motego DDL sound card that is hooked up to my Sony Receiver via optical.

I get the same audio with my XBOX 360 as I do with my HTPC if I Play the same DVD on the 360. Not sure why you would get better audio unless your sound card is one of the higher end variety. I know there is one that converts all audio into DTS instead of Dolby Digital. I may pick that up some day.

TimTMy HT room is downstairs and underneath the master closet. It stills shakes my master bedroom upstairs though. I need a better material to sound proof my downstairs HT ceiling and wall.

Have you calibrated the audio for the 360? Just like video every source can be different for audio and needs to be calibrated.I thought of that too, but I use the automation acoustic MCACC option to calibrate the system. It shouldn't matter what audio component I connect to the receiver. It should be able to adjust to the MCACC calibration. I never adjust my HTPC and HT audio individually. It sounded great with the MCACC calibration.Pioneer Elite (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/staticfiles/index.html)

I would just like to add.. if you are running this add on and 360 through a receiver, I had the major audio problem where my center channel was muted and the surrounds were muted but the left and right channels were very loud... recalibration of speaker settings fixed the entire problem with HD DVD video.. but changed the sound of games through the 360.... but there is a happy medium between here where both sound very equal... i would recommend the device that measures output of sound per speaker so that all can be equalized through calibration of the receiver.. help me loads and I am a very happy customer.

hope this helps all that need a little help

I finally had the opportunity to try my add-on with digital audio out, using optical to surround receiver. While 360 games were loud, had a great mix and were enveloping, the MiIII soundtrack and effects seemed a bit lame. As mentioned by others, over all output level is considerably lower than most other material played over the same connection. I had to raise the volume 10-15db on the receiver for movies to get similar levels to gameplay for several 360 games. I also thought I detected a wierd muting of some of the effects that I expected to be very dynamic, also mentioned by another poster. Explosion in the 3rd scene at the beginning the helicopter duel starts out strong then sort of cuts out while the fireball is ever expanding and debris is flying still. Pans were excelllent and sound placement for moving objects was definitely accurate. It just seemed to lack some punch, almost like the dynamic range had been castrated a bit. I would not call it a bad surround experience, just not all that it could be.

At Dallas avs forum meet conducted by Amir & Kevin from MS we watched hd-dvd player @ 1080i into a ($10,000) Sharp projector on various hd-dvd movies.

I can't imagine a better picture. Reminded us that for all intended purposes 1080i = 1080p on a 1080p device, especially over hdmi.

Any news about the "dts" update/patch ??

I am also very interested in the "DTS" update/patch to allow the 1.5mbs (I think that is what it is) transfer rate. I have returned the HD-A1 and picked up a 360 addon HD-DVD drive (christmas present). I was very happy with the HD-A1 but this way allowed me to get the 360 and the hd-dvd drive for roughly the same price. I will miss the TrueHD but if the patch comes out fairly soon (Microsoft seems to be on top of these things) I am sure I will be happy with the optical sound.

Hope it comes out soon.

As for the HDMI issue I am wondering if they are just waiting for 1.3 to catch up on TV sets and release that... just a thought or maybe like others have said / quoted it is not capable without Hardware update.

I am also wondering if some people hear with 1080p TV's don't realize that a 1080i input will be upconverted by your TV to 1080p and give you a 1080p picture.

Thanks,

Any news about the "dts" update/patch ??

That it's done, but awaiting integration by the Xbox team. Supposedly it could address some other possible audio issues as part of the DTS decode.

No need for HDMI, unless you're watching your movies with binoculars. I've seen both and it looks the 99.9% the same (tested on the toshiba).

No need for HDMI, unless you're watching your movies with binoculars. I've seen both and it looks the 99.9% the same (tested on the toshiba).Not really PQ that we are after. Most of us are please with the PQ through VGA. We are going after better sound output through HDMI. HDMI help simplify HT setup too. It is easier to manage HT setup with a single cable for everything.

Just brought the 360 HD DVD playerm I'm very impressed with it, but we need some lip sync upgrades for dolby true HD and hopefully microsoft get there HDMI cable ready; so DOLBY TRUE HD is possible.

The surround speakers sounded okay on Xbox 360, but it is missing some surrounds sound compared to my 6.1/7.1 HTPC and HT.

Do you mean the surrounds aren't as present, or that say the surround backs just don't do anything? You might want to check if you have DD EX / DTS ES enabled on the input the 360 is hooked up to. My receiver does DD EX / DTS ES dematrixing by default on all DD / DTS sources when configured for 6.1 or 7.1 speaker ouput.

I've also got a Pioneer (old model, but has MCACC) and I didn't have to change my calibration or anything. If you've got it in some kind of advanced surround mode that might muck up the audio a bit (tho it might improve it too, depends on what you're sending it).

normal DVD's aren't re-encoded so unless you're doing some clever processing on your HTPC before it's output to the sound system there incoming bitstream to the receiver will be the same no matter from the 360 or the HTPC. As for HD-DVDs, it has to re-encode for advanced mode content (which everything is), but that's been covered a zillion times.

finally doing my first direct SD --> HD-DVD comparison with Apollo 13 right now. this is with the XBOX add-on. i've got them perfectly synchronized flipping back and forth. PQ difference is incredible, night and day. unfortunately, AQ difference is almost as big and the SD DTS track wins hands down. HD-DVD track is DD+. Microsoft really needs to fix this. i think i'll keep the audio on the DVD :)

Not really PQ that we are after. Most of us are please with the PQ through VGA. We are going after better sound output through HDMI. HDMI help simplify HT setup too. It is easier to manage HT setup with a single cable for everything.

They would have to reconstruct the whole motherboard. MS should have done it from the get-go. Kinda weird they didn't. Would be nice though, since the sound is really lacking. You don't even notice it untill you hear the same movie one a different format. I did it with MI3, sounds a lot better on the BR on the PS3.

That it's done, but awaiting integration by the Xbox team. Supposedly it could address some other possible audio issues as part of the DTS decode.

It's done?

Where did you hear this?

It's done?

Where did you hear this?

Amir from MS at this event (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9062167#post9062167) says his team is done with the decode itself but it has to go thru the Xbox team.

Anyone know how to make the HD-DVD add-on eject a disc using the remote? It always seems to open the dvd drive when I use it, even if there is no disc in the dvd player. Sort of annoying.

They would have to reconstruct the whole motherboard. MS should have done it from the get-go. Kinda weird they didn't. Would be nice though, since the sound is really lacking. You don't even notice it untill you hear the same movie one a different format. I did it with MI3, sounds a lot better on the BR on the PS3.

Please quote your source. Many of you people keep stating that there is no way the 360 can support HDMI, but I haven't seen any rock solid proof that microsoft can't create an adapter that will do the job.

If you do have evidence I for one would love to see it so that I can complain to Microsoft about it. HDMI should have been included and they have stated from day one that they will release an HDMI adapter when they see a need (whatever the hell that means).

If your just quoting someone else without having real proof to back it up, please stop and we'll see if microsoft doesn't have yet another ace up their sleeve.

TimT

Anyone know how to make the HD-DVD add-on eject a disc using the remote? It always seems to open the dvd drive when I use it, even if there is no disc in the dvd player. Sort of annoying.

I don't think there is a way to eject the disc via the remote. It is kind of annoying but if you factor in that at any time you can stop the HD-DVD from the remote. End the HD-DVD Player and return to the dashboard, and then start a game or DVD that is in the other drive. You really don't need to eject with the remote. If your going to take the disc out your going to be right there anyway and it's just as easy to hit the little button on the add on drive.

But I agree it would have been nice and hopefully they will add that feature via an update later.

TimT

Please quote your source. Many of you people keep stating that there is no way the 360 can support HDMI, but I haven't seen any rock solid proof that microsoft can't create an adapter that will do the job.

If you do have evidence I for one would love to see it so that I can complain to Microsoft about it. HDMI should have been included and they have stated from day one that they will release an HDMI adapter when they see a need (whatever the hell that means).

If your just quoting someone else without having real proof to back it up, please stop and we'll see if microsoft doesn't have yet another ace up their sleeve.

TimT

I'm sure that MS can come up with an adapter, but the signal would still be coming out of the regular output. Then the adapter would have to convert it to HDMI. I was talking about "out-the-box" connection. I would be sceptical if HDMI "adapter" would work as well as out the box. The adapter would have to take care(converting) of the sound and picture signals. Adapter is highly doable, but to what expense.

Please quote your source. Many of you people keep stating that there is no way the 360 can support HDMI, but I haven't seen any rock solid proof that microsoft can't create an adapter that will do the job.

If you do have evidence I for one would love to see it so that I can complain to Microsoft about it. HDMI should have been included and they have stated from day one that they will release an HDMI adapter when they see a need (whatever the hell that means).

If your just quoting someone else without having real proof to back it up, please stop and we'll see if microsoft doesn't have yet another ace up their sleeve.

TimT

The adapter on the 360 to connect any of the cables, component, vga, composite, or svideo, sends out an analog signal. MS would have to redesign how video is output so it is in a digital format. Sure, some company could build something that takes the analog video output, convert it back to digital, and combine it with the digital audio, but you won't get an upverted picture because it's still essentially an analog signal. Will MS do it? Possibly. But unlikely. There was only one version of the Xbox - the DVD drive in it was never upgraded to progressive. There are a lot of folks that only have one digital connection on their TVs now, and I'm using my DirecTV boxes for it now. I'm sure more people use the single one for that than for anything else.

Deezul

They would have to reconstruct the whole motherboard. MS should have done it from the get-go. Kinda weird they didn't. Would be nice though, since the sound is really lacking. You don't even notice it untill you hear the same movie one a different format. I did it with MI3, sounds a lot better on the BR on the PS3.Oh really, you might want to check this out:

HDMI on a Xbox 360 Coming Soon? (http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/hdmi-on-a-xbox-360-coming-soon-198495.php)

Xbox 360 - It's Real! (http://www.trustedreviews.com/gaming/news/2005/08/24/Xbox-360-Spotted-at-IDF/p1)

even if there is no disc in the dvd player. Sort of annoying.You cannot eject it w/ the remote while HD DVD is in the HD-DVD drive, but you can open it w/ the remote to open HD drive and load HD DVD. Xbox 360 is default to DVD drive, but you can scroll down to the bottom half of the ejector circle you can open HD-DVD drive from the remote.

We'll need a firmware update from MS, and I hope that it'll be available to us very soon. It is enoying after a while..!

Do you mean the surrounds aren't as present, or that say the surround backs just don't do anything? You might want to check if you have DD EX / DTS ES enabled on the input the 360 is hooked up to. My receiver does DD EX / DTS ES dematrixing by default on all DD / DTS sources when configured for 6.1 or 7.1 speaker ouput.

I've also got a Pioneer (old model, but has MCACC) and I didn't have to change my calibration or anything. If you've got it in some kind of advanced surround mode that might muck up the audio a bit (tho it might improve it too, depends on what you're sending it).

normal DVD's aren't re-encoded so unless you're doing some clever processing on your HTPC before it's output to the sound system there incoming bitstream to the receiver will be the same no matter from the 360 or the HTPC. As for HD-DVDs, it has to re-encode for advanced mode content (which everything is), but that's been covered a zillion times.It is there, however it is not as advantageous as the standard DVD from my other sources through the same receiver..!

Oh really, you might want to check this out:

HDMI on a Xbox 360 Coming Soon? (http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/hdmi-on-a-xbox-360-coming-soon-198495.php)

Xbox 360 - It's Real! (http://www.trustedreviews.com/gaming/news/2005/08/24/Xbox-360-Spotted-at-IDF/p1)

I did read it, as well as the comments, and I stand by what I said. It won't happen with the current 360 that is available, as must of the full comments on that post. Hey, guess what. The developer box is BLACK, not white. Does that mean that MS will release a Black one? IT'S BEEN SEEN AND CONFIRMED ON THE INTERNET, SO IT MUST BE TRUE! :)

Did you read this, from a MS VP? Xbox 360 Interview: Todd Holmdahl (http://interviews.teamxbox.com/xbox/1190/Xbox-360-Interview-Todd-Holmdahl/p1/)

I think even IF MS came out with an HDMI cable at this point, it would not be TRUE HDMI because as I said, the output from the proprietory 360 interface is analog, not digital.

Deezul

Would it be possible to output data from the USB port into a box that converted the data to HDMI ?

I did read it, as well as the comments, and I stand by what I said. It won't happen with the current 360 that is available, as must of the full comments on that post. Hey, guess what. The developer box is BLACK, not white. Does that mean that MS will release a Black one? IT'S BEEN SEEN AND CONFIRMED ON THE INTERNET, SO IT MUST BE TRUE! :)

Did you read this, from a MS VP? Xbox 360 Interview: Todd Holmdahl (http://interviews.teamxbox.com/xbox/1190/Xbox-360-Interview-Todd-Holmdahl/p1/)

I think even IF MS came out with an HDMI cable at this point, it would not be TRUE HDMI because as I said, the output from the proprietory 360 interface is analog, not digital.

Deezul
I don'tWe'll see..!

Assuming for the moment that the Xbox 360 cannot incoporate Dital video output.
Since the Xbox 360 does output "digital" optical out could it not be possible to make an "HDMI digital output" or audio only?
Or maybe a 5.1 anonalouge sound output?

I did read it, as well as the comments, and I stand by what I said. It won't happen with the current 360 that is available, as must of the full comments on that post. Hey, guess what. The developer box is BLACK, not white. Does that mean that MS will release a Black one? IT'S BEEN SEEN AND CONFIRMED ON THE INTERNET, SO IT MUST BE TRUE! :)

Did you read this, from a MS VP? Xbox 360 Interview: Todd Holmdahl (http://interviews.teamxbox.com/xbox/1190/Xbox-360-Interview-Todd-Holmdahl/p1/)

I think even IF MS came out with an HDMI cable at this point, it would not be TRUE HDMI because as I said, the output from the proprietory 360 interface is analog, not digital.

Deezul
I don't

The MS rep in the interview actually says they will provide HDMI when they feel the time is right. Nothing about a new revision being needed. Sounds to me that when the interview took place, in June 2005 MS already had HDMI in their sights and at least this MS rep seemed to think it would be possible on the current Xbox.

Whether he was right though, is another question :D

Assuming for the moment that the Xbox 360 cannot incoporate Dital video output.
Since the Xbox 360 does output "digital" optical out could it not be possible to make an "HDMI digital output" or audio only?
Or maybe a 5.1 anonalouge sound output?

Why put the audio on a HDMI cable when there are so few Receivers now that hae HDMI in? And if you receiver has 5.1 inputs for sound, chances are it has a optical cable in put. A big draw of HDMI is reducing the number of cables. Putting audio on HDMI doesn't reduce the number of cables.

Deezul

Would it be possible to output data from the USB port into a box that converted the data to HDMI ?

This is the only way I see it happening, if they ever do it. Which is what I have been saying all along. And if they do it this way, expect to pay at least $100 for it.

To summarize after what must be a year of the 360 HDMI output discussion here it would appear that:

1) Current 360's could support a digital output signal from the GPU
2) No one can verify any digital interface out for that signal, or even a trace

Further, reading between the line from various articles like those cited in this thread and others and considering also the 'insider rumor' passed some time ago here by Alex, it appears that perhaps MS fully intended to add an HDMI dongle for the 360 but so far have simply been technically unable to do it.

Perhaps it's the changing hdmi spec (consider when the 360 launch design must have been finished) or difficulties with hdcp or something else but it's hard to believe anything at this point other than that if MS could have, then they would have.

Doesn't mean they won't, but it calls into question if they can. Addon is still a great product for the price IMHO.

Further, reading between the line from various articles like those cited in this thread and others and considering also the 'insider rumor' passed some time ago here by Alex, it appears that perhaps MS fully intended to add an HDMI dongle for the 360 but so far have simply been technically unable to do it.

Which article mentioned "technically unable to do it"? Please provide source.

Perhaps MS don't want the HDMI in the current Xbox 360. They want to keep this option for the future Xbox. They never say “technically unable to do it”. There are conflicting articles everywhere. We’ll have to wait and see..!

Sorry but I really don't see any benefit of HDMI especially for games. Good monitor with good cables won't show much difference between analog and digital and you guys want to send that wonderful, pure digital 7.1 true blue HD sound on HDMI to the monitor to play it on included 2 speakers? Or most of you have HDMI 1.3 receivers??? All I know is that there is plenty of HDMI compatibility and handshake issues, courtesy of included DRM. I can understand movie studio push for HDMI, I'm just trying to understand how would I benefit. And yes, when it comes to sound I'm J6P from ghetto, I think MP3 sounds good enough and 5.1 speaker system is extravagant.

Which article mentioned "technically unable to do it"? Please provide source.


"and considering also the 'insider rumor'"

Take it as you will but do you really think that with all the questions they get about it they just wouldn't do it if they already could have?