Since I'm already getting 1080P out of the VGA cable for games, dvd's and HD-DVD's with no handshake issues I don't see the point for HDMI.

Sorry but I really don't see any benefit of HDMI especially for games. Good monitor with good cables won't show much difference between analog and digital and you guys want to send that wonderful, pure digital 7.1 true blue HD sound on HDMI to the monitor to play it on included 2 speakers? Or most of you have HDMI 1.3 receivers??? All I know is that there is plenty of HDMI compatibility and handshake issues, courtesy of included DRM. I can understand movie studio push for HDMI, I'm just trying to understand how would I benefit. And yes, when it comes to sound I'm J6P from ghetto, I think MP3 sounds good enough and 5.1 speaker system is extravagant.
I see the benefit of HDMI especially for games. And for games, there is no HD video DRM requirement.

It's nice to have the full 1920x1080 resolution, without having to resort with the potential pitfalls of analogue. Analogue ghosting for instance is an impossibility with HDMI. VGA works better than component in that some TVs will not overscan on VGA even if they do with component, but it's still not the same. HDMI definitely has its advantages, even if it isn't realized on all setups.

That said, I use component.

"and considering also the 'insider rumor'"

Take it as you will but do you really think that with all the questions they get about it they just wouldn't do it if they already could have?Who received the insider rumor? There is nothing about Xbox being “technical unable to do it”, as you stated. Please show me the technical diagram, and there is probably nothing available to the public.

It is called smart marketing by MS. If they can sale it without HDMI, why include it? It is more beneficial to them in the future model.

We’ll have to wait and see..!

For all you people that keep saying "show me proof". It's right in front of your face, and I've linked to it before, and wont' do it again. Do your own google search for Xbox 360 schematics and technical specs. Look for the diagrams and everywhere it mentions the video out, it says ANALOG.

Anything IS possible. This has been discussed to death. Dhalism is right. If it were cheap and easy for Microsoft to do so, they would have by now.

I have faith that Microsoft could concoct a device to convert the analog out to digital with an external module. I also believe such a device will not be cheap.

I also believe Microsoft would be stupid to release such a device right now, when HDMI is still so in flux and has newer versions yet to come out, since it won't be cheap. I am sure this is the discussion at Microsoft.

In an effort to prove thrustbucket wrong, I have failed.

I found this picture on Engadget which shows the breakdown of the output. Analog out, just like the presentation....unless Microsoft is using the unused pins for digital video and such. So I would say he's right. If Microsoft creates an HDMI cable, its when technology can allow it to be made cheap enough...not when the market says, which was last year!

http://members.cox.net/sandifer4/360cable.jpg

For all you people that keep saying "show me proof". It's right in front of your face, and I've linked to it before, and wont' do it again. Do your own google search for Xbox 360 schematics and technical specs. Look for the diagrams and everywhere it mentions the video out, it says ANALOG.

Anything IS possible. This has been discussed to death. Dhalism is right. If it were cheap and easy for Microsoft to do so, they would have by now.

I have faith that Microsoft could concoct a device to convert the analog out to digital with an external module. I also believe such a device will not be cheap.

I also believe Microsoft would be stupid to release such a device right now, when HDMI is still so in flux and has newer versions yet to come out, since it won't be cheap. I am sure this is the discussion at Microsoft.There are rumor and speculate everywhere. We'll have to wait and see.
Rumor: Xbox 360 HDMI Coming With Lost Planet Bundle? (http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/microsoft/rumor-xbox-360-hdmi-coming-with-lost-planet-bundle-216473.php)

I don't really think the mass market is ready or wanting HDMI. I can't stand HDMI. It is so undercooked, that in less than two years we are already moving onto 1.3. I would estimate the vast majority of HDTV owners still have RP CRT displays with component and DVI. I can't believe DVI was all but abandoned within a year, when it was touted at the best connection and futureproof.

No one owns an HDMI 1.3 capable display, receiver or software, yet we are explected to start upgrading equipment that was purchased in the last few months in order to keep up. I am perfectly happy with the 360 using component. It looks beautiful. I think it's sickening that upscaling is only allowed ove HDMI (or VGA). Who pirates movies after they have been scaled buy a player from and analog connection to a capture card? No one. That is silly.

I will not upgrade because of one type of HD connection that chages version every year.

I would go for a new 360 SKU that had an integrated HD-DVD drive and HDMI output.

I don't expect to see an HDMI output on the existing multi-out dongle. I think it will have to be a new SKU, most likely with a new video board (possibly a revision of the current board).

HDMI is a quirky thing right now... These forums are abuzz with numerous handshake issues from STB's to AVR's to HDTV's... I don't think compatibility testing is rigorous enough.

I don't really think the mass market is ready or wanting HDMI. I can't stand HDMI. It is so undercooked, that in less than two years we are already moving onto 1.3. I would estimate the vast majority of HDTV owners still have RP CRT displays with component and DVI. I can't believe DVI was all but abandoned within a year, when it was touted at the best connection and futureproof.

No one owns an HDMI 1.3 capable display, receiver or software, yet we are explected to start upgrading equipment that was purchased in the last few months in order to keep up. I am perfectly happy with the 360 using component. It looks beautiful. I think it's sickening that upscaling is only allowed ove HDMI (or VGA). Who pirates movies after they have been scaled buy a player from and analog connection to a capture card? No one. That is silly.

I will not upgrade because of one type of HD connection that chages version every year.

A fricken MEN.

I don't really think the mass market is ready or wanting HDMI. I can't stand HDMI. It is so undercooked, that in less than two years we are already moving onto 1.3. I would estimate the vast majority of HDTV owners still have RP CRT displays with component and DVI. I can't believe DVI was all but abandoned within a year, when it was touted at the best connection and futureproof.

No one owns an HDMI 1.3 capable display, receiver or software, yet we are explected to start upgrading equipment that was purchased in the last few months in order to keep up. I am perfectly happy with the 360 using component. It looks beautiful. I think it's sickening that upscaling is only allowed ove HDMI (or VGA). Who pirates movies after they have been scaled buy a player from and analog connection to a capture card? No one. That is silly.

I will not upgrade because of one type of HD connection that chages version every year.

I have a friend who stopped using his HDMI because it was so much trouble. The DirecTV HD TiVo box has had numerous problems with the HDMI. The first thing D* told people to try was connecting via component. I can't say I've been overly impressed with HDMI so far. People only seem to be clamoring for it because it's the latest and greatest. I'm quite happy with my component cables. I'll use the DVI connections I have, but I'm in no hurry to upgrade my receiver and TVs to HDMI ones. I'm more concerned with the NUMBER of imputs than the type.

Deezul

I don't really think the mass market is ready or wanting HDMI. I can't stand HDMI. It is so undercooked, that in less than two years we are already moving onto 1.3. I would estimate the vast majority of HDTV owners still have RP CRT displays with component and DVI. I can't believe DVI was all but abandoned within a year, when it was touted at the best connection and futureproof.

No one owns an HDMI 1.3 capable display, receiver or software, yet we are explected to start upgrading equipment that was purchased in the last few months in order to keep up. I am perfectly happy with the 360 using component. It looks beautiful. I think it's sickening that upscaling is only allowed ove HDMI (or VGA). Who pirates movies after they have been scaled buy a player from and analog connection to a capture card? No one. That is silly.

I will not upgrade because of one type of HD connection that chages version every year.


Why HDMI you asked?
HDMI has emerged as the digital standard for connecting HD devices, displays and components, and provides for the pristine transmission of high-definition digital video and digital audio via a single cable. Both based on Silicon Image's high-speed digital TMDS® technology, HDMI is fully compatible with DVI (Digital Visual Interface)-based devices. Further, HDMI is the first and only digital interface for Consumer Electronics devices that can carry:

* Uncompressed high-definition video
* Compressed or uncompressed multi-channel audio
* Intelligent format & command data


Customer Benefits of HDMI
100% Digital

* No Compression, no conversion
* Pure digital picture and sound direct from the source (as it was meant to be seen and heard)
* Video and Audio signal remains digital from output device to display device
* Best quality sound and picture
* Bandwidth to spare for HDTV
* 1080p capable and beyond
* Over two times 1080i bandwidth
* Includes YUV color space support



Only one cable required

* All HD video and audio in one cable
* Replaces up to 8 audio and 5 video cables
* Reduced Wiring Complexity


Automatic Format Intelligence*

* TV & AV Receivers can adjust without consumer intervention
* Video source receives the display's supported video formats, and outputs the optimal audio & video format
* Display regularly receives video format & aspect ratio from sources


Consumer Electronics Control*

* Entire home theater controlled from a single remote
* Enables high-level functions such as "one-touch play"


* These features are contingent on manufacturer implementation.

Why put the audio on a HDMI cable when there are so few Receivers now that hae HDMI in? And if you receiver has 5.1 inputs for sound, chances are it has a optical cable in put. A big draw of HDMI is reducing the number of cables. Putting audio on HDMI doesn't reduce the number of cables.

Deezul

Um, WTF?

You totally have that wrong.

Outputting the audio over HDMI DOES reduce the amount of cables.

The reason that some people want the analog audio is because,

A) they don't have HDMI inputs on their receiver

and

B) they want to be able to play back some of the new HD-DVD/BR audio formats, and the only way to get those uncompressed audio streams without HDMI is over analog inputs. If you get it via Optical or Coax it's being downconverted to another format like Dolby Digital 5.1 640KB or DTS 1.5 MB

I'm not going to be rude, but you should really read some of the other posts here before you try to make others feel stupid for asking for something like analog outs on the 360.

TimT

I have a friend who stopped using his HDMI because it was so much trouble. The DirecTV HD TiVo box has had numerous problems with the HDMI. The first thing D* told people to try was connecting via component. I can't say I've been overly impressed with HDMI so far. People only seem to be clamoring for it because it's the latest and greatest. I'm quite happy with my component cables. I'll use the DVI connections I have, but I'm in no hurry to upgrade my receiver and TVs to HDMI ones. I'm more concerned with the NUMBER of imputs than the type.

Deezul

I never have any trouble with the entire HDMI in my systems. Everything is great:

Only one cable required

* All HD video and audio in one cable
* Replaces up to 8 audio and 5 video cables
* Reduced Wiring Complexity

I have a friend who stopped using his HDMI because it was so much trouble. The DirecTV HD TiVo box has had numerous problems with the HDMI. The first thing D* told people to try was connecting via component. I can't say I've been overly impressed with HDMI so far. People only seem to be clamoring for it because it's the latest and greatest. I'm quite happy with my component cables. I'll use the DVI connections I have, but I'm in no hurry to upgrade my receiver and TVs to HDMI ones. I'm more concerned with the NUMBER of imputs than the type.

Deezul

Some people want the HDMI connection because it's the only digital connection that their TV supports.

I would like HDMI because I know from experience that a digital connection won't be as succeptible to analog interference. Going from the component outs from my Radeon video card to using the DVI/HDMI connection over an Nvidia was like night and day.

Not everyone will have this problem but there are far more video cards that support DVI than component. Thus more people will be using HDMI to connect to an HDTV rather than component when hooking up HTPC's.

If I had VGA on my TV I would be using the VGA adapter for the XBOX 360 and I wouldn't even be worrying about an HDMI adapter.

TimT

For all you people that keep saying "show me proof". It's right in front of your face, and I've linked to it before, and wont' do it again. Do your own google search for Xbox 360 schematics and technical specs. Look for the diagrams and everywhere it mentions the video out, it says ANALOG.

Anything IS possible. This has been discussed to death. Dhalism is right. If it were cheap and easy for Microsoft to do so, they would have by now.

I have faith that Microsoft could concoct a device to convert the analog out to digital with an external module. I also believe such a device will not be cheap.

I also believe Microsoft would be stupid to release such a device right now, when HDMI is still so in flux and has newer versions yet to come out, since it won't be cheap. I am sure this is the discussion at Microsoft.

HDMI being in flux is definitely not being debated, the connection is now on it's third revision and it's still not as common place as it should be. Not to mention that with all those revisions, to get the benefit of the latest you have to pretty much buy all new components that support it, including a new HD-DVD/BR, a new TV and a new receiver. Thats way too rich for my blood.

But in August of "THIS" year one of the group marketing managers for the hardware division working on the XBOX had this to say.

http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=79458

"There's nothing about the Xbox 360 that says it can't support HDMI," Penello told us. "We just didn't design it that way." Penello even took a jab at the HDMI format itself, saying that "HDMI isn't finished...even one of the PS3 SKUs doesn't have it." (This was before Sony changed their mind on the lower priced SKU)

On the other hand, Penello was careful not to rule anything out: "one day we might add it in," he offered, referring to HDMI support. But Penello lashed out at criticisms that the Xbox 360's component and VGA outputs are inferior, saying that "the people who are the most impassioned are the ones who know the least about it." When it comes to the different between component and HDMI video, Penello said, "the reality is, for any normal HD owner, the difference [between the formats] is nonexistent."

This does sound bad for the possibility, since he outright admits that they didn't design it that way. Pretty stupid if you ask me. If I had heard that the PS3 was going to have HDMI I would have made sure Microsoft could support it in the future without alot of work.

I would have thought that they would have made sure they were going from Digital to Analog rather than simply outputting analog. They had intended from the beginning to support HD-DVD on the 360 as an add-on so it seems very surprising that they seem to have totally missed the boat on digital connections.

Then again, the Xbox360 doesn't cost $600.00 and it came out a year earlier as well.

I for one am happy with the video quality of the 360. For component out it's pretty damn good. I just wish that the damn DVD committee would allow upscaling of DVD's over component so microsoft could enable it without VGA being needed.

TimT

I've got a pretty big problem, and I'm hoping that someone can help me. I've tried the search function, but it was not helpful.

Anyhow, I've got a Sony VPL-VW50, connected to my Xbox 360 through VGA. All resulutions work just fine, all except 1920*1080. The picture becomes incredibly dark, and looks kind of "zoomed".

I got this setup in order to watch HD-DVD movies from my Xbox 360 (among other things, naturally), but I just can't get this to work. The resulution works just fine when I connect my computer via HDMI, so that's not the problem.

Any and all ideas would be very appreciated!

I would have thought that they would have made sure they were going from Digital to Analog rather than simply outputting analog. They had intended from the beginning to support HD-DVD on the 360 as an add-on so it seems very surprising that they seem to have totally missed the boat on digital connections.

Then again, the Xbox360 doesn't cost $600.00 and it came out a year earlier as well.



Which I think is exactly the point. My assumption is that they balanced specs against release date and decided that HDMI was not worth the delay. Besides, with the modular approach they took, they can easily release add-ons later on. Trust me, if they would have been confident an internal HD-DVD drive and HDMI wouldn't have put an incredible risk on their planned release date of the Xbox360, they would have added it straight out-of-the-box. Sony took a huge gamble by adding all the latest gizmos (HDMI 1.3, Blu-Ray). It is just way too early to tell if that gamble paid off or not. Right now, it looks like it delayed the PS3 by almost a full year, and that's a hefty price to pay in console land. But just imagine the spin if Microsoft would release a new revision of the Xbox360 to support HDMI. "Microsoft admits Xbox being inferiour to PS3", "Early adopters get screwed by Microsoft". I'm sure the PS3 marketing department has a bottle of champagne waiting just for that ;).

Don't get me wrong, I would *love* an Xbox360 with HDMI. Mostly for the support of HD Audio though, a fact that often seems overlooked in the media. But there is *nothing* bad about releasing an HDMI cable right now. Why would Microsoft hold back a simple cable if it would shut the competition up *right now*?

Only Microsoft knows the real answer. It has been mentioned several times already: the Xbox GPU is most likely very capable of outputting a digital video signal. But the current hardware revision does not connect the video out connector to any digital signal paths, nor does the Xbox have the required cryptorom to support HDCP. As other posts have already pointed out, this is not speculation, but has been established by people bold enough to take a screwdriver and void their warranty ;). Sorry if that's not what most people want to hear, but I honestly don't think we'll have an HDMI cable that is compatible with an Xbox360 V1.0 anytime soon.

I've got a pretty big problem, and I'm hoping that someone can Anyhow, I've got a Sony VPL-VW50, connected to my Xbox 360 through VGA. All resulutions work just fine, all except 1920*1080. The picture becomes incredibly dark, and looks kind of "zoomed".


Pearl does not accept 1080p via VGA from the 360. The only Projector reported working with the 360 via VGA at 1080p is the Mitsubshi HC5000.

Solution: Use component at 1080i, the PQ is the same. Set the Xbox 360 at 1080p,, and it will automatically switch to 1080i for HD DVD and 1080p for games.

Yep, I wouldn't hold my breath for HDMI output on current Xbox 360 hardware. Maybe the Xbox 720?

I rented U2:Rattle and Hum and experienced severe stuttering in the menu system but the movie and trailers played perfectly!?

If I had VGA on my TV I would be using the VGA adapter for the XBOX 360 and I wouldn't even be worrying about an HDMI adapter.

TimT[/QUOTE]


No you wouldn't. The picture using componant cables is far superior than VGA.

Does anyone know if you can get a longer cable to connect the HD DVD player to the XBOX?

Does anyone know if you can get a longer cable to connect the HD DVD player to the XBOX?
Just use a USB extention cable.

Pearl does not accept 1080p via VGA from the 360. The only Projector reported working with the 360 via VGA at 1080p is the Mitsubshi HC5000.

Solution: Use component at 1080i, the PQ is the same. Set the Xbox 360 at 1080p,, and it will automatically switch to 1080i for HD DVD and 1080p for games.

Aah... Not great news for me, but I really appreciate the answer, thanks!

I did however try to set it to 1080p through component, and the projector said that the update frequency was invalid (or something like that). I'm probably going to have to use 1080i at all times... If you don't happen to know why it gave me that error message? :)

But again, thanks for replying, that's what I love about AVS Forum.

Just use a USB extention cable.

Best would be just a longer USB 2 cable (make sure you mach the end sizes!). Monoprice is good.

Hello. Im a newbie to this forum so please excuse any questions that might seem like common knowledge. I just recently purchased an xbox 360 hd-dvd player and found out that there were updates to the xbox concerning upconversion with games as well as sd dvd using a vga cable. I have a pioneer pro-1130hd plasma television. My problem is that I cannot get a 1080i signal to work with my television using the vga cable. When I go to choose 1920x1080 for the resolution in the xbox, my television say it doesnt support it. But when I use my component cables i get a 1080i signal just fine. But using my component video cables only upconverts my sd dvds to 480p. Is my xbox broken or is my television just not suited to display the 1920x1080 (1080i) signal throught rgb port? I appreciate any thoughts on this matter. Thank you in advance!

Hello. Im a newbie to this forum so please excuse any questions that might seem like common knowledge. I just recently purchased an xbox 360 hd-dvd player and found out that there were updates to the xbox concerning upconversion with games as well as sd dvd using a vga cable. I have a pioneer pro-1130hd plasma television. My problem is that I cannot get a 1080i signal to work with my television using the vga cable. When I go to choose 1920x1080 for the resolution in the xbox, my television say it doesnt support it. But when I use my component cables i get a 1080i signal just fine. But using my component video cables only upconverts my sd dvds to 480p. Is my xbox broken or is my television just not suited to display the 1920x1080 (1080i) signal throught rgb port? I appreciate any thoughts on this matter. Thank you in advance!
I believe the best you can accept thru the VGA input is 1280 x 768 on that particular Pio plasma, since that is its native res. So you can set the 360 to that res and it'll upconvert to your screens native res for SD DVDs.

I believe the best you can accept thru the VGA input is 1280 x 768 on that particular Pio plasma, since that is its native res. So you can set the 360 to that res and it'll upconvert to your screens native res for SD DVDs.

He's right, you should be glad that the set will take its native res over VGA. My lcd tv will only take 1024x768 over vga, even though its native res is 1360x768, so no 360 dvd upscaling for me. Fortunately XBMC 2 does a good job of upscaling and doesn't worry that its over a component connection
;)

Thanks guys at least now I know a little bit more about my television. I thought their was something wrong with the video card in my xbox. You guys saved me some headache. Thanks again.

I just purchased the hd dvd add on as well. I know it comes with a 90day warranty but is there an opportunity to purchase an extended warranty?

thanks

I just purchased the hd dvd add on as well. I know it comes with a 90day warranty but is there an opportunity to purchase an extended warranty?

thanks
Yes When I bought mines last week, they told me I had until January if I wanted to get the extended warranty.

A patch that fixes the sound issue needs to come out fast. I've stopped watching movies that only have DD+ because of it. Action scenes suck in DD+. i have to turn up my receiver way up and even then the action sequences are grately lacking.

A patch that fixes the sound issue needs to come out fast. I've stopped watching movies that only have DD+ because of it. Action scenes suck in DD+. i have to turn up my receiver way up and even then the action sequences are grately lacking.

What sound issue are you referring to? I havent opened my HD DVD addon yet. Whats DD+? I will be using my HDDVD with an optical cable to my receiver, and hopefully using DD5.1 or better soundtracks, will I experience this sound issue?

It's been mentioned a few times already, but why can't microsoft add a patch to include gamma adjustments. Many of the 360 games have them in them. I'm sure it would be a piece of cake. If game developers see the need for gamma adjustments, shouldn't movies have this even more so? Is microsoft listening? This player is great and can be even better with a few options like gamma controls.

What sound issue are you referring to? I havent opened my HD DVD addon yet. Whats DD+? I will be using my HDDVD with an optical cable to my receiver, and hopefully using DD5.1 or better soundtracks, will I experience this sound issue?

DD+ is an HD-DVD sound format. The xbox HD drive takes the new formats and decodes them to dolby digital, however it doesn't do a good job of it, and the audio comes out not sounded as good as even the standard DVD version. Microsoft is going to release a firmware update to fix this. Apparently, they will make the player convert everything to DTS, and it will sound much better. The xbox isn't capable of pushing out DD+ or True HD audio, that is why it must convert it to DD or DTS.

The picture quality is excellent though. I love my player, just can't wait till they fix the audio problem

I just purchased the hd dvd add on as well. I know it comes with a 90day warranty but is there an opportunity to purchase an extended warranty?

thanksI don't think that you need the extended warranty. I own eight DVD players. I never have any troubles with it. I don't expect the add-on to break either. By the time it breaks, there might be a better product than the add-on on the market. The current model might be very cheap to replace by then..!

DD+ is an HD-DVD sound format. The xbox HD drive takes the new formats and decodes them to dolby digital, however it doesn't do a good job of it, and the audio comes out not sounded as good as even the standard DVD version. Microsoft is going to release a firmware update to fix this. Apparently, they will make the player convert everything to DTS, and it will sound much better. The xbox isn't capable of pushing out DD+ or True HD audio, that is why it must convert it to DD or DTS.

The picture quality is excellent though. I love my player, just can't wait till they fix the audio problem

I didn't realize there was confirmation from Microsoft that they would release a fix. Is there an ETA for this?

It's been mentioned a few times already, but why can't microsoft add a patch to include gamma adjustments. Many of the 360 games have them in them. I'm sure it would be a piece of cake. If game developers see the need for gamma adjustments, shouldn't movies have this even more so? Is microsoft listening? This player is great and can be even better with a few options like gamma controls.

I thought many of the games had a Brightness (black level) adjustment, not a gamma adjustment. Is this simply a case of the developers mis-labeling the slider under options in the game menu?

A patch that fixes the sound issue needs to come out fast. I've stopped watching movies that only have DD+ because of it. Action scenes suck in DD+. i have to turn up my receiver way up and even then the action sequences are grately lacking.

i'm in the same boat as you. regular dd+ tracks out of the xbox360 HD drive sound so flat in action scenes it's distracting.

i'm in the same boat as you. regular dd+ tracks out of the xbox360 HD drive sound so flat in action scenes it's distracting.

It's really bad, try switching in Riddick from DD+ to DTS.

I rented and tried out Batman Begins on my 360 add-on and there is noticeable audio lag with the TrueHD track.

I'm still debating whether I should keep this add-on or send it back to Amazon.com. I'm not exactly thrilled with this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=766588) which indicates that HD DVD release schedule is drying up while Blu-Ray release schedule is growing bigger and bigger. At this point I still have about 20 days of the 30 day return period to play with, I'm not going to spend any money on a dying format even merely $200.

I rented and tried out Batman Begins on my 360 add-on and there is noticeable audio lag with the TrueHD track.

I'm still debating whether I should keep this add-on or send it back to Amazon.com. I'm not exactly thrilled with this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=766588) which indicates that HD DVD release schedule is drying up while Blu-Ray release schedule is growing bigger and bigger. At this point I still have about 20 days of the 30 day return period to play with, I'm not going to spend any money on a dying format even merely $200.You looked at the wrong place. You might want to visit here: Movies Release Calendar (http://www.dvdtown.com/moviedatabase/releasecalendar/December/2006)

I did the whole search thing byut couldn't find the answer. I'm using VGA with my 360 and HD DVD drive with my Sammy HLS5087, I'm getting the black bars all around when using VGA but it fills my screen when I use component.

Any suggestions? I really like the look on the VGA, a lot more vibrant -- is this something that a calibration will fix?

I did the whole search thing byut couldn't find the answer. I'm using VGA with my 360 and HD DVD drive with my Sammy HLS5087, I'm getting the black bars all around when using VGA but it fills my screen when I use component.

Any suggestions? I really like the look on the VGA, a lot more vibrant -- is this something that a calibration will fix?
Did you change your resolution? VGA and Componet have different resolutions.

I did the whole search thing byut couldn't find the answer. I'm using VGA with my 360 and HD DVD drive with my Sammy HLS5087, I'm getting the black bars all around when using VGA but it fills my screen when I use component.

Any suggestions? I really like the look on the VGA, a lot more vibrant -- is this something that a calibration will fix?

First, go into your Dashboard settings and make sure the 360 is displaying in 1920x1080. Then, use the P-Size button on your remote to size the picture correctly.

I wish I liked the look of the VGA better on my 5087. To me the colors dont look as nice, and the picture doesnt look as clear as when I use component/1080p. What picture settings are you using?

Toenail,

Games have actual gamma sliders. Some games have both brightness and gamma sliders. I have a rp crt and gamma makes all the difference in the world. Microsoft...Please add gamma adustments for hd-dvd playback! That will guarantee victory over blue-ray and PS3(that should get their attention).

I for one would love a HDMI cable for my 360. One more check in that box. On another note. With people out there able to hack a WII's cable from a composite cable into a component one for better picture is there no way to hack the VGA cable for the 360 to make it a component one? If the 360 sees it's outputting through VGA and allows a full 1080P for HD DVD's and it's really just going out component why would this not work? Just curious. But really, why would it not work?

I just read on another forum a dutch site started advertising an HDMI cable. Hopefully, they accidentially tipped MS hat on releasing an HDMI cable.

PS For those that own the HD-DVD drive already....does the audio processing take place in the HD-DVD drive? If that's the case, can that really be fixed via firmware upgrade or is it likely a problem with the drive?

All audio and video processing is done in the 360.

Toenail,

Games have actual gamma sliders. Some games have both brightness and gamma sliders. I have a rp crt and gamma makes all the difference in the world. Microsoft...Please add gamma adustments for hd-dvd playback! That will guarantee victory over blue-ray and PS3(that should get their attention).

Are you being serious, the key to the format war is gamma adjustment on the 360 add-on ?

Are you being serious, the key to the format war is gamma adjustment on the 360 add-on ?


lol i hope not...

Are you being serious, the key to the format war is gamma adjustment on the 360 add-on ?That is ridiculous...and I hope not.

I for one would love a HDMI cable for my 360. One more check in that box. On another note. With people out there able to hack a WII's cable from a composite cable into a component one for better picture is there no way to hack the VGA cable for the 360 to make it a component one? If the 360 sees it's outputting through VGA and allows a full 1080P for HD DVD's and it's really just going out component why would this not work? Just curious. But really, why would it not work?
Any takers on this idea?

For all those who think the audio of the 360 add-on is fine, I watched a great title that shows the problem perfectly.

2 Fast 2 Furious - when the two Mitsubishis race the two muscle cars in the middle of the movie. On the DVD version the Barricuda sounds rediculously loud compared to the Spyder, at least twice the volume. On the HD-DVD playback the two cars have the same volume, just a different sound to the engines.

All the volume levels are equal, from the smallest detail to all the dialogue, while this makes the movie very easy to follow and understand, the level of accuracy and realism in the soundtrack is completely blown.

For all those who think the audio of the 360 add-on is fine, I watched a great title that shows the problem perfectly.

2 Fast 2 Furious - when the two Mitsubishis race the two muscle cars in the middle of the movie. On the DVD version the Barricuda sounds rediculously loud compared to the Spyder, at least twice the volume. On the HD-DVD playback the two cars have the same volume, just a different sound to the engines.

All the volume levels are equal, from the smallest detail to all the dialogue, while this makes the movie very easy to follow and understand, the level of accuracy and realism in the soundtrack is completely blown.

Another easy one to compare is Superman Returns. In the first minute when the Kryptonian sun explodes, I could feel the compression in my chest with the standard DVD in the Xbox 360 console. When I later got the HD DVD and rewatched it (before reading this thread about the problem) I actually thought to myself, "That's odd, I remember that being a bigger explosion." There was no impact from the subwoofer at all. I hope this can be addressed, otherwise this drive is headed for eBay.

First, go into your Dashboard settings and make sure the 360 is displaying in 1920x1080. Then, use the P-Size button on your remote to size the picture correctly.

I wish I liked the look of the VGA better on my 5087. To me the colors dont look as nice, and the picture doesnt look as clear as when I use component/1080p. What picture settings are you using?

Yeah, I did all that. Set the resolution on the 360 to 1920x1080, set the Sammy to Wide on the P.Mode. On the PC input, I have Warm 1, DNie off, DNR off, Game Mode off, and Contrast set to 50 and Brightness set to 50.

With the suggestions that everyone has provided, the image from the 360 still does not fill the whole screen like component. I get about less than an inch of black bars all around.

However, here's the an interesting thing I found on the maual, on page 106, under Changing Pic Size (PC Mode), it states under "Wide" or "4:3" -- "Wide: Scales the picture to 92% of the TV screen regardless of the aspect ratio of the input source."

Does the explanation above concur with what I am experiencing? Can a "Pro" please confirm?

As always thanks for the input.

Another easy one to compare is Superman Returns. In the first minute when the Kryptonian sun explodes, I could feel the compression in my chest with the standard DVD in the Xbox 360 console. When I later got the HD DVD and rewatched it (before reading this thread about the problem) I actually thought to myself, "That's odd, I remember that being a bigger explosion." There was no impact from the subwoofer at all. I hope this can be addressed, otherwise this drive is headed for eBay.

I noticed it on M:I 3 with the first explosion on the bridge, I watched the HD-DVD version with the volume up to get it sounding somewhere decent, picture was very good and the sound was OK and just thought the soundtrack wasn't that impressive. I then put the SD version on at the same volume and my house nearly blew up!!!

hey just wondering if anyone has this player hooked up via optical (audio) to a denon 2807 reciever.

if so, what setings do you use on the reciever?

let me know,

thanks.

Any takers on this idea?

Along those lines, isn't there a VGA/Component adapter that would accomplish the same? I can't seem to get an answer as to whther this would or wouldn't work.

http://www.smarthome.com/77706.html

Along those lines, isn't there a VGA/Component adapter that would accomplish the same? I can't seem to get an answer as to whther this would or wouldn't work.

http://www.smarthome.com/77706.html


A comment at the bottom of that page says it only works up to 480p.

Are you being serious, the key to the format war is gamma adjustment on the 360 add-on ?

Yes, I'm serious...that I really want gamma control on my hd-dvd drive. As for the other part, I hope you can come to a intelligent conclusion on your own.

I didn't realize there was confirmation from Microsoft that they would release a fix. Is there an ETA for this?

AmirM who is supposed to work directly for Microsoft in the XBOX team or at least is very involved in the HD-DVD and codec teams said they are working on this fix and they are trying hard to get it in before the Live team goes on vacation for christmas. Otherwise it would have to slip until after the new year which would blow.

A comment at the bottom of that page says it only works up to 480p.

Too good to be true.

I have ordered one from VANNS, hopefully comes with DVD/REMOTE?

Did any one apply MICROSOFT FIRMWARE? Results?

AmirM who is supposed to work directly for Microsoft in the XBOX team or at least is very involved in the HD-DVD and codec teams said they are working on this fix and they are trying hard to get it in before the Live team goes on vacation for christmas. Otherwise it would have to slip until after the new year which would blow.


Wow, if they did this we should all chip in for a case of scotch or something.

I'm hoping they give us more settings and options for the HD-DVD/DVD portion. They really need to have a video resolution for movies and a seperate one for games. Along those same lines I'd like independent video options (brightness/gamma) for 480p(standard dvds) and HD resolutions. Every time I put a standard dvd in I have to lower my tv's brightness. The system just doesn't output 480p friendly on my calibrated set.

Some configuration options would really put this addon over the top. That being said, I still love it how it is.... I just want more, including HDMI. :)

Anyone have this issue. On 2 occastions I placed a HD DVD in the drive and it just says reading. I eject the disc and then re-insert and it plays fine. Never had an issue with a disc playing back, but this seems strange unless the disc needs to be placed perfectly to play?

I have ordered one from VANNS, hopefully comes with DVD/REMOTE?

Did any one apply MICROSOFT FIRMWARE? Results?

You mean, did I instal the included driver CD. No I didn't. I assumed the firmware downloaded from Xbox Live was the same or newer.

AmirM who is supposed to work directly for Microsoft in the XBOX team or at least is very involved in the HD-DVD and codec teams said they are working on this fix and they are trying hard to get it in before the Live team goes on vacation for christmas. Otherwise it would have to slip until after the new year which would blow.

Where and when did you hear this ?

Double Post

I didn't realize there was confirmation from Microsoft that they would release a fix. Is there an ETA for this?

It would great to have a fix before Christmas. Just to be clear though, a fix means fixing the DD+->PCM internal conversion and NOT the DTS update which is an alternative encode function.

Jonathan

Wow, if they did this we should all chip in for a case of scotch or something.

I'm hoping they give us more settings and options for the HD-DVD/DVD portion. They really need to have a video resolution for movies and a seperate one for games. Along those same lines I'd like independent video options (brightness/gamma) for 480p(standard dvds) and HD resolutions. Every time I put a standard dvd in I have to lower my tv's brightness. The system just doesn't output 480p friendly on my calibrated set.

Some configuration options would really put this addon over the top. That being said, I still love it how it is.... I just want more, including HDMI. :)

Black levels seem all over the place with different formats. Each game varies, all 480 DVDs are washed out and need a much lower brightness setting and HD-DVD movies are consitently good at my ISF calibrated settings. It means each time I switch from one format to another I either have to adjust the TV or the ingame options. Getting a little old. It would be nice to be able to save settings for each of the output formats on the 360 so that the signal levels are consistent when they reach the TV.

Black levels seem all over the place with different formats. Each game varies, all 480 DVDs are washed out and need a much lower brightness setting and HD-DVD movies are consitently good at my ISF calibrated settings. It means each time I switch from one format to another I either have to adjust the TV or the ingame options. Getting a little old. It would be nice to be able to save settings for each of the output formats on the 360 so that the signal levels are consistent when they reach the TV.

I don't have a problem with the games varying as long as they each have their own settings. It's the lack of settings that get me. My games and HD-DVD's are great. When the games have settings I give a look at the levels and adjust if need be, but usually don't need to.

You looked at the wrong place. You might want to visit here: Movies Release Calendar (http://www.dvdtown.com/moviedatabase/releasecalendar/December/2006)

Ummmmm, past December 06 all it lists are DVDs only for January 07 and nothing is listed at all for February 07. This link is useless.

hey just wondering if anyone has this player hooked up via optical (audio) to a denon 2807 reciever.

if so, what setings do you use on the reciever?

let me know,

thanks.

I have it hooked up to a 3806 and found the best setting was 7 channel stereo

For all those who think the audio of the 360 add-on is fine, I watched a great title that shows the problem perfectly.

2 Fast 2 Furious - when the two Mitsubishis race the two muscle cars in the middle of the movie. On the DVD version the Barricuda sounds rediculously loud compared to the Spyder, at least twice the volume. On the HD-DVD playback the two cars have the same volume, just a different sound to the engines.

All the volume levels are equal, from the smallest detail to all the dialogue, while this makes the movie very easy to follow and understand, the level of accuracy and realism in the soundtrack is completely blown.


right, that scene really shows the contrast between the two engines in the modern car and the muscle car. good point sir. that whole scene shows you how much louder the older car is

It would great to have a fix before Christmas. Just to be clear though, a fix means fixing the DD+->PCM internal conversion and NOT the DTS update which is an alternative encode function.

Jonathan

Didn't they say that the DD+ would be encoded to DTS after the fix, and no longer come out as DD? I read that on here in several places. Which would be great

Yeah, I did all that. Set the resolution on the 360 to 1920x1080, set the Sammy to Wide on the P.Mode. On the PC input, I have Warm 1, DNie off, DNR off, Game Mode off, and Contrast set to 50 and Brightness set to 50.

With the suggestions that everyone has provided, the image from the 360 still does not fill the whole screen like component. I get about less than an inch of black bars all around.

However, here's the an interesting thing I found on the maual, on page 106, under Changing Pic Size (PC Mode), it states under "Wide" or "4:3" -- "Wide: Scales the picture to 92% of the TV screen regardless of the aspect ratio of the input source."

Does the explanation above concur with what I am experiencing? Can a "Pro" please confirm?

As always thanks for the input.

Anyone please? Set is a Sammy 5087.

Didn't they say that the DD+ would be encoded to DTS after the fix, and no longer come out as DD? I read that on here in several places. Which would be great
I had interpreted it to mean we'd have an option of DD or DTS.

It's not coming before Xmas though.

I have the Samsung HLS-5688 and I can easily fill the screen with any resolution from a VGA interface. I have options for the screen size that let me shift it horizontally, vertically and stretch it. Do you not have these? They show up from the tv menu. Currently looking at my display it actually is overscanning using 1920x1080 with a PC (some of the windows taskbar is cut off).

I see where you see the 92% thing, but I don't think you read far enough.

I have attached page 138 of my manual. Look at the bottom. You need to do the alternate method which lets you stretch

Where and when did you hear this ?

One of his comments is in the thread about 360 audio on King Kong HD-DVD.

here is the quoted thread.

"Just a quick FYI that we are looking at this problem. I don't have an update on it because I was on vacation for a while. But for now, wanted to let you know that we are finalizing our DTS encoder which once done, should produce the same experience as the Toshiba player which everyone was happy with.... "

TimT

I don't have a problem with the games varying as long as they each have their own settings. It's the lack of settings that get me. My games and HD-DVD's are great. When the games have settings I give a look at the levels and adjust if need be, but usually don't need to.

As you've noted, many games have settings under "options" that allow for brightness adjustment. PGR3 for example, does not. This means every time I play I have to go into the user menu of the TV and alter the settings by raising brightness considerably. Then when I want to watch HD-DVD, I have to reverse the procedure. SD 480 DVDs are another ball game all together. The black level is off by a mile (too high) and so requires yet another trip to the user menu of the TV to lower brightness considerably. Then when I revert to 360 games or HD-DVD I have to go in and fix it again.

FWIW the set/input is ISF calibrated so at least one variable has been eliminated as the problem.

I guess I've had about enough of the issues with the 360 add on as an HD-DVD drive, so I'll be returning mine and waiting until the whole thing matures a bit before taking another stab at it. The issues with black level, lack of HDMI support, awful SQ on DD+ (gets worse the more I listen), lack of available titles, format war etc. have all driven me to the point where I feel like I did with Hi-Rez audio a while back. Seems like the whole thing is half-baked and not quite sorted out yet. Guess I'm little tired of being an "early adopter" and settling for the compromises in order the be on the cutting edge. I did thoroughly enjoy the PQ of the few HD-DVD movies I was able to watch.

As you've noted, many games have settings under "options" that allow for brightness adjustment. PGR3 for example, does not. This means every time I play I have to go into the user menu of the TV and alter the settings by raising brightness considerably. Then when I want to watch HD-DVD, I have to reverse the procedure. SD 480 DVDs are another ball game all together. The black level is off by a mile (too high) and so requires yet another trip to the user menu of the TV to lower brightness considerably. Then when I revert to 360 games or HD-DVD I have to go in and fix it again.

FWIW the set/input is ISF calibrated so at least one variable has been eliminated as the problem.

I agree 100%, Xbox360 settings are all over the place and I need to adjust brightness for many games and the difference between 1080i HD-DVD and 480i DVD is huge and it is pain in the neck since most displays have only one memory setting per input.

glad i'm not the only one experiencing this. from game to game the video levels are all over the place, and i have kept an upconverting dvd player for SD-DVD for the sole reason that the black level for SD on the 360 HD-DVD drive is boosted too high.

glad i'm not the only one experiencing this. from game to game the video levels are all over the place, and i have kept an upconverting dvd player for SD-DVD for the sole reason that the black level for SD on the 360 HD-DVD drive is boosted too high.

I also have an upconverter for SD-DVD. I had hoped that the add on would eliminate the need for one. Given the brightness issue, that wouldn't work becuase my wife is getting a bit sick of having to make all manner of adjutmnts to the TV and output devices just to watch a movie.

Black-level, white-level and gamma adjustments would be real nice in the DVD player.

Personally, I'd like to see position and size adjustments for the VGA output for the console overall - I have a vertical black band on the left side of my display because the TV can't move the picture any further (ran out of range on the h-pos adjustment).

I'm not happy about the sound, but I can wait for the fix to be available.

Overall, I'm happy enough with the player; I'm not going to return it because of a few nitpicks. Until I can get a display that's 1080 native, the add-on is more than fine. And when/if I decide that I can afford that display, it wouldn't be that hard to get a standalone player if the add-on is no longer good enough.

Ummmmm, past December 06 all it lists are DVDs only for January 07 and nothing is listed at all for February 07. This link is useless.If you take time to search the net, you'll find something: Movie Release Date (http://www.movieweb.com/dvd/releases/hd/week.php)

I guess I've had about enough of the issues with the 360 add on as an HD-DVD drive, so I'll be returning mine and waiting until the whole thing matures a bit before taking another stab at it. The issues with black level, lack of HDMI support, awful SQ on DD+ (gets worse the more I listen), lack of available titles, format war etc. have all driven me to the point where I feel like I did with Hi-Rez audio a while back. Seems like the whole thing is half-baked and not quite sorted out yet. Guess I'm little tired of being an "early adopter" and settling for the compromises in order the be on the cutting edge. I did thoroughly enjoy the PQ of the few HD-DVD movies I was able to watch.

What issue with black level?

I too have noticed that the black level is WAY OFF when playing sd-dvd's. this problem is evident when playing sd-dvd's on the hd-dvd add-on AND on the 360's built-in sd-dvd drive. so i guess i must keep my sa-dvd player because the 360 cannot even play sd-dvd without problems??

has MS addressed this issue?


********
As you've noted, many games have settings under "options" that allow for brightness adjustment. PGR3 for example, does not. This means every time I play I have to go into the user menu of the TV and alter the settings by raising brightness considerably. Then when I want to watch HD-DVD, I have to reverse the procedure. SD 480 DVDs are another ball game all together. The black level is off by a mile (too high) and so requires yet another trip to the user menu of the TV to lower brightness considerably. Then when I revert to 360 games or HD-DVD I have to go in and fix it again.

FWIW the set/input is ISF calibrated so at least one variable has been eliminated as the problem.

I've hardly even tried SD discs in the 360 except to see that they work; hadn't noticed any problems with black level.

I'm keeping the Oppo for SD until the Oppo dies (when that happens, I'll probably try to find a replacement if they still exist) - there are things that the 360 can't (or won't) do - divx/xvid, and especially NTSC/PAL for example.

I've got my 360 hooked up via VGA; I just tried the do-it-yourself 360 HD test pattern disc mentioned in the "HD DVD Test Patterns" thread (post 9004903 - n00b, can't do links :( ) and my SD Avia disc.

I've got my display calibrated as well as I can get it (all greyscale bars visible when they should be, BTB barely visible) and I don't see any difference in black level.

I'm not saying that the people that report black level problems are wrong, but I'm not seeing it.

No black level problems with my 360, playing SD DVD's, games or HD DVD's. Only calibration done was with the THX test patterns on one of my DVD's.

No black level problems with my 360, playing SD DVD's, games or HD DVD's. Only calibration done was with the THX test patterns on one of my DVD's.


Is it possible some HDTV's will autocalibrate VGA and since the XBox360 takes some time to boot up the calibration is done on white screen and therefore not proper? I'll need to experiment with this, by letting XBox360 fully boot up before turning on the TV. There must be some reason why on my set the settings are all over the place and some of you have no problem.

Forgive me if this has been asked before, but going through 100+ pages of posts is too time-intensive....

I have a Samsung 6187 1080p DLP set. I'm thinking about adding an XBox HD DVD player to go with it.

I would like to know if I connect the HD DVD player/360 system to my tv using the components will the picture be in 1080p? Or will I only get the true 1080p if I use the VGA connection? I know that using the VGA will allow me to upconvert SD DVD's but I need to know about HD DVD's.

BTW, I've been told that the HD-BluRay fight will be going on for a long time. I've also been hearing lately that HD is slowing down with their titles, while BluRay is cranking out many new titles. Any truth to this? Should I hold off on either format for now?

Thanks

You will only be able to display 1080p for the HD-DVD player via the VGA cable. I have a Samsung 5687 1080p DLP set myself. I've kind of felt the same thing. The HD-DVD forum is filled with nervous people right now.

I bought the HD-DVD drive because I was already in the market for an upconverting DVD player and I found a great deal on the HD-DVD (Circuit City $40 off coupon) player so it was almost the same price, might as well fork out just a tad bit more to play HD-DVD's as well. I do not think the format war will be over any time soon but for $170, that's an acceptable entry fee for me and so far, I'm very happy that I bought one.

I have purchased 4 HD-DVD's and I rent them constantly from Netflix. I simply do not enjoy my SD-DVD collection nearly as much as I used to thanks to HD-DVD...

A common feature on SD players that I haven't found yet on the 360 is slow-forward and slow-reverse.

This not often used, but is a desirable feature for film geeks looking for technical how-its-done things, glitches and mistakes, and also I suppose pervs. :D

Does the 360 have slo-mo?

One of his comments is in the thread about 360 audio on King Kong HD-DVD.

here is the quoted thread.

"Just a quick FYI that we are looking at this problem. I don't have an update on it because I was on vacation for a while. But for now, wanted to let you know that we are finalizing our DTS encoder which once done, should produce the same experience as the Toshiba player which everyone was happy with.... "

TimT

Sorry to be direct. But this quote you just repeated, which I have seen before, says nothing about "Christmas" or "Xbox Live team". Amir already made it clear that the DTS update could take as long as 3 months and as I keep pointing out repeatedly, the current fault is nothing to do with the new DTS encoder, but to do with the decoding of DD+ (and some indicate there may be a lesser issue with TrueHD as well)

Jonathan

What issue with black level?

Read some of my previous posts. Three different 360 games, three different black levels. Standard def DVD @480 resolution, yet another black level. HD-DVD, an even different black level. This is all over component at either 480p, 720p or 1080i. If VGA output somehow keeps black levels consistent, I'm SOL because I have no VGA input on my TV. It would not be a big deal except I don't feel like keeping both an HD-DVD player and an SD-DVD player, I don't feel like entering the user menu on my TV every other time I game or want to watch a movie to adjust brightness and I don't want to keep explaining to my wife why I have made watching the TV such a circus of adjustments.

Not sure if this has been posted already or not, but here is a site that took some comparison shots of King Kong and Batman Begins HD-DVDs using the 360 add-on, versus a Samsung upscaling dvd player. Scroll WAY down for the comparison shots. These aren't the greatest quality, but they can give you an idea of what to expect if you're still on the fence about the add-on...

http://www.gamescentral.com/blogs/tek_jansens_explosive_gaming_experience/archive/2006/12/12/xbox-360-hd-dvd-drive-impressions-king-kong-and-batman-begins-comparison.aspx

Same site also did a comparison of Corpse Bride Blu-Ray running on PS3, versus the same Samsung upscaling dvd player...

http://www.gamescentral.com/blogs/tek_jansens_explosive_gaming_experience/archive/2006/12/12/ps3-blu-ray-impressions-and-movie-comparison.aspx

Is it possible some HDTV's will autocalibrate VGA and since the XBox360 takes some time to boot up the calibration is done on white screen and therefore not proper? I'll need to experiment with this, by letting XBox360 fully boot up before turning on the TV. There must be some reason why on my set the settings are all over the place and some of you have no problem.


wow, that is a good point

A common feature on SD players that I haven't found yet on the 360 is slow-forward and slow-reverse.

This not often used, but is a desirable feature for film geeks looking for technical how-its-done things, glitches and mistakes, and also I suppose pervs. :D

Does the 360 have slo-mo?

great for horror movies

To me, these black levels could be cause by individual TV set. The TV set may not support the HD content or it might need calibration.

If there is problem with HD-DVD add-on, we should see it on everyone TV set. I don't have any problems with the add-on PQ. It is playback as expected and described by MS.

If they can fix the problem with AQ, the add-on would be perfect. This is the first year model. I am expecting some hiccups, and I am sure that MS is working on the firmware to fix its problem. I watched Bone Collector on Monday. The PQ and AQ are great. The AQ work best w/ DTS selected.

To me, these black levels could be cause by individual TV set. The TV set may not support the HD content or it might need calibration.

If there is problem with HD-DVD add-on, we should see it on everyone TV set. I don't have any problems with the add-on PQ. It is playback as expected and described by MS.

If they can fix the problem with AQ, the add-on would be perfect. This is the first year model. I am expecting some hiccups, and I am sure that MS is working on the firmware to fix its problem. I watched Bone Collector on Monday. The PQ and AQ are great. The AQ work best w/ DTS selected.

You did read the part where I mentioned that the whole set, including the input in question, has been ISF calibrated, right? It is a 720p DLP and I can assure you that it "supports the HD content". HD playback is not in question here. Black levels for HD playback are as expected and look fine. If you play SD DVDs through the add on device the black levels are elevated to an awful level requiring a significant reduction in brightness in the user menu of the TV. I've seen this claim supported by at least one reputable calibrator and also by several other owners of the add on. Not related to the add on is the issue of black level for games on the 360. By itself it doesn't bother me too much, but when combined with the SD DVD issues it's too much hassle constantly fiddling with the image to get it to look as it should.

As you stated, as a stand-alone, HD-only output device it does well (if they fix the audio) and is an excellent value. I was trying to use it as an upscaler as well and with lack of HDMI support and improper black levels it falls short. Perhaps I was expecting too much. It would not surprise me , however, if future generations of this device did address the issues I mention. I will be waiting for that device to hit the market before I dive in again.

You will only be able to display 1080p for the HD-DVD player via the VGA cable. I have a Samsung 5687 1080p DLP set myself. I've kind of felt the same thing. The HD-DVD forum is filled with nervous people right now.

I bought the HD-DVD drive because I was already in the market for an upconverting DVD player and I found a great deal on the HD-DVD (Circuit City $40 off coupon) player so it was almost the same price, might as well fork out just a tad bit more to play HD-DVD's as well. I do not think the format war will be over any time soon but for $170, that's an acceptable entry fee for me and so far, I'm very happy that I bought one.

I have purchased 4 HD-DVD's and I rent them constantly from Netflix. I simply do not enjoy my SD-DVD collection nearly as much as I used to thanks to HD-DVD...


Do you or anyone else know if the XBox HD DVD will upconvert SD DVD's with better PQ than the standard XBox360 drive?

I'm currently switching between letting my tv (& older Sony Progressive Scan w/Progressive turned off. Also hooked up via components) do the upconvert as opposed to my XBox360 doing it. The PQ is just a little better using the 360 via VGA. Just wondering if the HD DVD will upconvert better.

I just saw the post above mine saying that the HD DVD upconverts poorly. Anyone else have an opinion here?

I just saw the post above mine saying that the HD DVD upconverts poorly. Anyone else have an opinion here?

My comments are specific to component output, not VGA. It's only capable of 480p output resolution over component and the black level is off. In that capacity it is far worse than the HDMI Sony upconverter I have. Not sure about VGA but I'm sure others will chime in.

Why is it that everyone says the problem is with the add-on drive? There is nothing wrong with the drive. The drive is just the transport. The drive does not play SD/HD DVD the same way a stand-alone player does. All it does is pass the bitstream to the 360. All complaints about the image/sound quality should be directed at the 360 which should be fixable with firmware updates. Perhaps you folks should present the issues to XBox 360 Support (http://www.xbox.com/en-GB/support/contact/) or to amirm in this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=697036). I'm not sure if amirm reads this thread regularly.

My comments are specific to component output, not VGA. It's only capable of 480p output resolution over component and the black level is off. In that capacity it is far worse than the HDMI Sony upconverter I have. Not sure about VGA but I'm sure others will chime in.


He is right the HD DVD addon does not upconvert and if it does its very poor. If its a SD dvd i prefer to use my upconvert dvd player or the regular 360 dvd player.

Does anyone else here also have the Miami Vice HD DVD. My question is with the dark scenes in the movie (ie. when they on on the roof top in the beginning talking on the phone) are they suppose to be so graining like that or, is it done on purpose just to make the scene look more real and different. Im confused, any input on this?

I see where you see the 92% thing, but I don't think you read far enough.

I have attached page 138 of my manual. Look at the bottom. You need to do the alternate method which lets you stretch

Yeah, I did see that and I did use the p.mode and placed it on wide... it's still not filling the screen.

He is right the HD DVD addon does not upconvert and if it does its very poor. If its a SD dvd i prefer to use my upconvert dvd player or the regular 360 dvd player.

That's what I am also doing, i'll be using my upconvert DVD for my SD and strictly use my add on for HD movies.

He is right the HD DVD addon does not upconvert and if it does its very poor. If its a SD dvd i prefer to use my upconvert dvd player or the regular 360 dvd player.


Are you trying to upconvert the SD DVD via the 360's component cables or via VGA?

I know the 360 only upconverts via VGA, and it sounds like the HD DVD is the same too. :(

He is right the HD DVD addon does not upconvert and if it does its very poor. If its a SD dvd i prefer to use my upconvert dvd player or the regular 360 dvd player.

The HD DVD does not upconvert at all - it is the console itself that upscales,whether you have the addon or not. The VGA cable is what is required for upscaling with the Xbox 360.

Component connections, on any commercial DVD, HD DVD or BR player will NOT upscale copy-protected DVD's.

Do all the XBox HD DVD's come with the remote and King Kong DVD in them? Or this something that individual stores are offering? If it's through Microsoft, has there been any end date for this offer?

Also, if I want to watch a SD DVD in my 360 drive (for the upconverting feature), can I use the HD DVD remote with it, or does the HD DVD remote only control the HD DVD player?


Last but not least, the HD DVD player will play HD DVD's in 1080p via VGA correct? And if I use the XBox component cables I will only get 1080i right?

I'm just trying to get all the facts before I decide whether I want to get XBox HD DVD player or spend a little more and buy a Toshiba HD-A2 HD player. Still leaning towards the XBox. Although I am curious as to how much better, if any, the Toshiba upconverts SD DVD's versus the 360's upconverting via VGA.

Also, if I want to watch a SD DVD in my 360 drive (for the upconverting feature), can I use the HD DVD remote with it, or does the HD DVD remote only control the HD DVD player?

The remote works for BOTH SD and HD DVDs.


Last but not least, the HD DVD player will play HD DVD's in 1080p via VGA correct? And if I use the XBox component cables I will only get 1080i right?

Yes, VGA=1080p, Component=1080i for HD-DVDs.

Does anyone else here also have the Miami Vice HD DVD. My question is with the dark scenes in the movie (ie. when they on on the roof top in the beginning talking on the phone) are they suppose to be so graining like that or, is it done on purpose just to make the scene look more real and different. Im confused, any input on this?

Yes don't panic. The film was shot that way on purpose.

I have found that when you turn off an dvd in the hd-dvd add on and go to the xbox360 dashboard, there is no way to open the hd-dvd tray to get the dvd out. When you scroll down in the UI to the lower button, when you already have a dvd in the hd-dvd player, the only option is to play the dvd, rather than open the tray. So I end up having to get up off my lazy butt and actually manually push the open button to get the dvd out. Amazing!!! Lol, only half joking, but do you all have the same experience or am I missing something that is in the dashboard.

I too have noticed that the black level is WAY OFF when playing sd-dvd's. this problem is evident when playing sd-dvd's on the hd-dvd add-on AND on the 360's built-in sd-dvd drive. so i guess i must keep my sa-dvd player because the 360 cannot even play sd-dvd without problems??

has MS addressed this issue?


********
the black level problem is evident using component input on my sony KDLV32XBR1 32" LCD. i don't have vga cable so cannot test whether problem persists with vga. the problem is evident when playing sd-dvd on both add-on AND the integrated dvd drive on 360 console. when i plug my pioneer dvd player into the identical inputs the black level is normal so this is a problem with 360 component output playing sd-dvd's.
to best see this problem go to the end credits of a sd-dvd and compare black level to a stand alone dvd player.

the black level problem is evident using component input on my sony KDLV32XBR1 32" LCD. i don't have vga cable so cannot test whether problem persists with vga. the problem is evident when playing sd-dvd on both add-on AND the integrated dvd drive on 360 console. when i plug my pioneer dvd player into the identical inputs the black level is normal so this is a problem with 360 component output playing sd-dvd's.
to best see this problem go to the end credits of a sd-dvd and compare black level to a stand alone dvd player.

that same black level problem with sd-dvd exists over the vga connection.

I have found that when you turn off an dvd in the hd-dvd add on and go to the xbox360 dashboard, there is no way to open the hd-dvd tray to get the dvd out. When you scroll down in the UI to the lower button, when you already have a dvd in the hd-dvd player, the only option is to play the dvd, rather than open the tray. So I end up having to get up off my lazy butt and actually manually push the open button to get the dvd out. Amazing!!! Lol, only half joking, but do you all have the same experience or am I missing something that is in the dashboard.


Same here... I actually had my Harmony learn the HD DVD add on remote--but didn't do the open/close thing-- maybe I'll do it tonight...

I've got my 360 hooked up via VGA; I just tried the do-it-yourself 360 HD test pattern disc mentioned in the "HD DVD Test Patterns" thread (post 9004903 - n00b, can't do links :( ) and my SD Avia disc.

I've got my display calibrated as well as I can get it (all greyscale bars visible when they should be, BTB barely visible) and I don't see any difference in black level.

I'm not saying that the people that report black level problems are wrong, but I'm not seeing it.
Where is this "HD DVD Test Patterns" thread at? I can't find it. :(

Edit: Nevermind I found it here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9004903&&#post9004903

I'm in Canada and looking to buy one of these, but BB and Futureshop both show sold out. Anyone know any other places?

I ordered from VANNS, for $189, plus shipping, of I think, $8-9 but they shipped second day air! It did come with KK and backlit remote(better than my $3.5K) Bravia's remote!! I installed today! so far love it

Does anyone else here also have the Miami Vice HD DVD. My question is with the dark scenes in the movie (ie. when they on on the roof top in the beginning talking on the phone) are they suppose to be so graining like that or, is it done on purpose just to make the scene look more real and different. Im confused, any input on this?

Don't have Miami Vice but I've seen exactly the same thing watching Serenity, using VGA input and guess what? I FIXED IT!!!
It wasn't XBOX360, it was my TV and here is the problem: During boot up XBOX360 sends some unstable video signal, which my TV was using to calibrate the input. That would create very bad white crash that no calibration could fix, also the brightness level was not consistent. Once I let the XBox360 fully boot up and then turn on TV, the VGA calibration was done properly, I could properly calibrate my TV, eliminate white crash and PQ is wonderful. There is no white crash anymore and I'm very happy with this simple solution. I would imagine switching TV to another input and and then back to VGA should have similar effect as delaying TV's start up. I watched the whole movie again and all the bright, previously overexposed scenes displayed perfectly. I'm so happy I found this simple solution. See if your problem has similar cause.

I have an issue with my setup, and I was hoping that you guys might be able to help.

I've got an Xbox 360, with the HD-DVD addon, and I'm playing games/movies on my Sony VPL-VW50 projector. According to the specs, the VW50 is able to receive a 1080p signal (in 60 hz) over VGA, but I can't get that to work. Naturally, I've got the VGA cable for the 360.

When I send the projector a 1920*1080 signal through VGA, the image becomes extremely dark, and only about 70% of the screen is visible. It's like it's zoomed in, and the centre of the screen.

I asked the Sony support about this, and they told me that VGA is technically limited to 1366*768, so I'm not putting much faith in them anymore. happy

So, does anyone know how to make this work, with this setup?

I'm in Canada and looking to buy one of these, but BB and Futureshop both show sold out. Anyone know any other places?Not sure where you are in Canada, but here in Ontario Walmart has lots of the add-ons. I'd say give them a try.

Don't have Miami Vice but I've seen exactly the same thing watching Serenity, using VGA input and guess what? I FIXED IT!!!
It wasn't XBOX360, it was my TV and here is the problem: During boot up XBOX360 sends some unstable video signal, which my TV was using to calibrate the input. That would create very bad white crash that no calibration could fix, also the brightness level was not consistent. Once I let the XBox360 fully boot up and then turn on TV, the VGA calibration was done properly, I could properly calibrate my TV, eliminate white crash and PQ is wonderful. There is no white crash anymore and I'm very happy with this simple solution. I would imagine switching TV to another input and and then back to VGA should have similar effect as delaying TV's start up. I watched the whole movie again and all the bright, previously overexposed scenes displayed perfectly. I'm so happy I found this simple solution. See if your problem has similar cause.That is exactly what I thought. TV is design for TV viewing, and it is VGA ready. Some TV manufactures included proper firmware to support this option. There are some that doesn't have the proper firmware for their VGA option. It needs more works to get it to work with the 360 and its add-on. I tried the 360 on three PC flat panels. They all work fine. To me, the 360 and its add-on is not the problem..!

That is exactly what I thought. TV is design for TV viewing, and it is VGA ready. Some TV manufactures included proper firmware to support this option. There are some that doesn't have the proper firmware for their VGA option. It needs more works to get it to work with the 360 and its add-on. I tried the 360 on three PC flat panels. They all work fine. To me, the 360 and its add-on is not the problem..!


Tried the VGA cable last night....

had problems...everything looked less bright...using King Kong as the test, when the Universal logo comes up, the black in the space (around the stars) was very grey and washed out....switched back to component and it was brilliant black again....

could the above be my issue?

Just picked mine up at Sam's Club. $182 with the King Kong extra. The workers told me they just started getting them in this week.

Tried the VGA cable last night....

had problems...everything looked less bright...using King Kong as the test, when the Universal logo comes up, the black in the space (around the stars) was very grey and washed out....switched back to component and it was brilliant black again....

could the above be my issue?

Turn the Xbox360 first and wait about 10 seconds, then turn on TV. Get any DVD with THX logo and look for menu/options/THX or calibration. Calibrate blacks and whites per instructions then play KK. Come back and tell us if it helped.

Don't have Miami Vice but I've seen exactly the same thing watching Serenity, using VGA input and guess what? I FIXED IT!!!
It wasn't XBOX360, it was my TV and here is the problem: During boot up XBOX360 sends some unstable video signal, which my TV was using to calibrate the input. That would create very bad white crash that no calibration could fix, also the brightness level was not consistent. Once I let the XBox360 fully boot up and then turn on TV, the VGA calibration was done properly, I could properly calibrate my TV, eliminate white crash and PQ is wonderful. There is no white crash anymore and I'm very happy with this simple solution. I would imagine switching TV to another input and and then back to VGA should have similar effect as delaying TV's start up. I watched the whole movie again and all the bright, previously overexposed scenes displayed perfectly. I'm so happy I found this simple solution. See if your problem has similar cause.

how do u boot? drive or console? do we need to do next firmware upgrade listed on MS website?

I'm in Canada...

You might want to be just a tad more specific, eh.

how do u boot? drive or console? do we need to do next firmware upgrade listed on MS website?Turn off the 360 and turn back on..! If there is an upgrade available, it'll ask you to do so through 360.

Tried the VGA cable last night....

had problems...everything looked less bright...using King Kong as the test, when the Universal logo comes up, the black in the space (around the stars) was very grey and washed out....switched back to component and it was brilliant black again....

could the above be my issue?Yes, it is probably related to your TV set. It is okay on my 56inch Toshiba DLP..!

Ok I've got a question and don't flame me for it....

I'm running my XBox360 into my Samsung 6187 1080p DLP tv using the component cables from the 360. I'm looking to get the HD DVD player next and I know that if I don't use the VGA cable, I'll only get the output on movies at 1080i, and that if I want true 1080p I need to use the VGA cable. So far I don't really like the VGA (using to upconvert SD DVD's through the 360's drive) because of the overscan issues. I get a lot more screen taken up by bars which annoys me. I know I can adjust those to some degree, but they're still bigger than what I am used to.

Here's my newbish question....Will I notice a big difference watching HD DVD's in 1080i as compared to 1080p?

Thanks for the help.

Here's my newbish question....Will I notice a big difference watching HD DVD's in 1080i as compared to 1080p?


Not at all.

Assuming your TV is deinterlacing correctly.

Ok I've got a question and don't flame me for it....

I'm running my XBox360 into my Samsung 6187 1080p DLP tv using the component cables from the 360. I'm looking to get the HD DVD player next and I know that if I don't use the VGA cable, I'll only get the output on movies at 1080i, and that if I want true 1080p I need to use the VGA cable. So far I don't really like the VGA (using to upconvert SD DVD's through the 360's drive) because of the overscan issues. I get a lot more screen taken up by bars which annoys me. I know I can adjust those to some degree, but they're still bigger than what I am used to.

Here's my newbish question....Will I notice a big difference watching HD DVD's in 1080i as compared to 1080p?

Thanks for the help.No flame here..! How big is your monitor? How far away do you view it?

No flame here..! How big is your monitor? How far away do you view it?


61" . I'm about 11-12' away from it

the black level problem is evident using component input on my sony KDLV32XBR1 32" LCD. i don't have vga cable so cannot test whether problem persists with vga. the problem is evident when playing sd-dvd on both add-on AND the integrated dvd drive on 360 console. when i plug my pioneer dvd player into the identical inputs the black level is normal so this is a problem with 360 component output playing sd-dvd's.
to best see this problem go to the end credits of a sd-dvd and compare black level to a stand alone dvd player.

My 360 does this on SD DVD's as well........I'm definitly keeping my Panasonic S97 player.

61" . I'm about 11-12' away from itYou'll be fine w/ the 1080i..!

You'll be fine w/ the 1080i..!


How close do I have to be to see a noticeable difference? Maybe around 9' or closer?

I have found that when you turn off an dvd in the hd-dvd add on and go to the xbox360 dashboard, there is no way to open the hd-dvd tray to get the dvd out. When you scroll down in the UI to the lower button, when you already have a dvd in the hd-dvd player, the only option is to play the dvd, rather than open the tray. So I end up having to get up off my lazy butt and actually manually push the open button to get the dvd out. Amazing!!! Lol, only half joking, but do you all have the same experience or am I missing something that is in the dashboard.

Multiple people have commented on this. While I realize your half joking, that means your half serious. I was a little annoyed about it until I realized that it doesn't matter if you can eject the HD-DVD from the remote because you still have to get up off your ass to actually take it out of the tray. Unless someone out there has telekenisis. If so fess up, that would be cool.

And since you can stop the HD-DVD and switch to the other at any time with the dashboard etc, it really doesn't matter. When you need to put a new disc in your going to have to get up and you might as well use that cool touch eject button.

Yes it would be nice if you could choose which tray to eject but it really doesn't matter after all.

TimT

The HD DVD does not upconvert at all - it is the console itself that upscales,whether you have the addon or not. The VGA cable is what is required for upscaling with the Xbox 360.

Component connections, on any commercial DVD, HD DVD or BR player will NOT upscale copy-protected DVD's.

Actually the XBOX doesn't upscale ANY dvd over component. I have tried this with a test DVD that was decrypted and it doesn't upscale that either. So it doesn't matter that it's copy protected, it's just that Microsoft doesn't even attempt to upscale over component.

TimT

So you can't upconvert reg dvds at all using component.

I heard that the regular 360 dvd drive can upconvert reg dvds to 1080p using VGA just as the hddvd addon can but without having to ever buy the hddvd addon.

That to me limites the use and reason to get the hddvd for someone like me who mostly wants to upconvert reg dvds to 1080p for 1080p tv.

blockbuster doesn't rent hddvds.

why didn't MS add hdmi with the hddvd addon? instead of just running it through the 360 and being stuck with component that can't upconvert or do 1080p at all (i know it can for games but wait even for an actual 1080p hddvd that doens't need upconversion component can't do it in 1080p? or just for upconverting)

they could have added optical audio which ps3 also had so you could use a normal optical audio cable and not have to use the special 360 optical audio accessory cable.

So you can't upconvert reg dvds at all using component.

I heard that the regular 360 dvd drive can upconvert reg dvds to 1080p using VGA just as the hddvd addon can but without having to ever buy the hddvd addon.

That to me limites the use and reason to get the hddvd for someone like me who mostly wants to upconvert reg dvds to 1080p for 1080p tv.

blockbuster doesn't rent hddvds.

why didn't MS add hdmi with the hddvd addon? instead of just running it through the 360 and being stuck with component that can't upconvert or do 1080p at all (i know it can for games but wait even for an actual 1080p hddvd that doens't need upconversion component can't do it in 1080p? or just for upconverting)

they could have added optical audio which ps3 also had so you could use a normal optical audio cable and not have to use the special 360 optical audio accessory cable.
blockbuster online does rent hddvd

So you can't upconvert reg dvds at all using component.

I heard that the regular 360 dvd drive can upconvert reg dvds to 1080p using VGA just as the hddvd addon can but without having to ever buy the hddvd addon.

That to me limites the use and reason to get the hddvd for someone like me who mostly wants to upconvert reg dvds to 1080p for 1080p tv.

blockbuster doesn't rent hddvds.

why didn't MS add hdmi with the hddvd addon? instead of just running it through the 360 and being stuck with component that can't upconvert or do 1080p at all (i know it can for games but wait even for an actual 1080p hddvd that doens't need upconversion component can't do it in 1080p? or just for upconverting)

they could have added optical audio which ps3 also had so you could use a normal optical audio cable and not have to use the special 360 optical audio accessory cable.

Yes, the drive in the Xbox 360 can upconvert over VGA just the same as the add-on. But neither will look as good as a true HD DVD. I've had a good upconverting player for some time. It's an improvement, but HD DVD is a BIG improvement.

Blockbuster does rent HD DVDs online, and some stores are starting to add them in my home town. Netflix has a good selection. If you live in or near a medium-sized city, you should be able to find a brick and mortar rental shop that carries them.

HDMI would likely make zero difference in picture quality. MS apparently decided that it wasn't worth the time and money to offer it because every HD set has component and every 1080p set has a deinterlacer that can handle a 1080i input. The sets that do have HDMI also have a variety of implementations that create handshake and setup problems that would increase the tech support bill.

1080p TVs have good deinterlacers built in. They have to, because a majority of HD broadcasts are 1080i. Using component and outputting 1080i from the Xbox doesn't cost you any resolution on an HD DVD movie. Most people who have tried both component and VGA say they see little or no difference.

It you feel you must have 1080p, a VGA cable with the optical out for audio costs $40 (or $15 for the Pelican version on eBay.)

If all you want to do is upscale standard DVDs, you can buy a decent upscaling player for roughly the same price as the Xbox add-on -- but it won't play HD DVDs.

IMHO, the add-on is a no-brainer for anybody with an Xbox and an HDTV. But it's your money and your call.

So you can't upconvert reg dvds at all using component.

I heard that the regular 360 dvd drive can upconvert reg dvds to 1080p using VGA just as the hddvd addon can but without having to ever buy the hddvd addon.

That to me limites the use and reason to get the hddvd for someone like me who mostly wants to upconvert reg dvds to 1080p for 1080p tv.

blockbuster doesn't rent hddvds.

why didn't MS add hdmi with the hddvd addon? instead of just running it through the 360 and being stuck with component that can't upconvert or do 1080p at all (i know it can for games but wait even for an actual 1080p hddvd that doens't need upconversion component can't do it in 1080p? or just for upconverting)

they could have added optical audio which ps3 also had so you could use a normal optical audio cable and not have to use the special 360 optical audio accessory cable.
If all you want is upconvert, you can get the VGA cable for less than $50, if your TV is not one of the ones that are bad with VGA. Or you can get a HDMI upconverting cheapo DVD player for <$150.

And I'm using a normal optical cable with my Xbox 360, bought it from the grocery store. I have no idea what the "special 360 optical audio accessory cable" is.

saw miami vice last night. seems to me it has inconsistent video quality. it is the movie, not the player in my opinion because i see the the same thing on the same scenes while watching the sd version.

There's no question the 360 HD DVD add on is a winner.

I bought a pair of them. One for my 360 and one for an HTPC.

Are they perfect? No. Most notable the fact that it doesn't decode Dolby TrueHD.

That said, I paid less for both units than I just paid for my Toshiba A2. The Toshiba is unquestionably superior -- but not (IMHO) worth 2x the price, unless you are a dedicated video junkie.

There's no question the 360 HD DVD add on is a winner.

I bought a pair of them. One for my 360 and one for an HTPC.

Are they perfect? No. Most notable the fact that it doesn't decode Dolby TrueHD.

That said, I paid less for both units than I just paid for my Toshiba A2. The Toshiba is unquestionably superior -- but not (IMHO) worth 2x the price, unless you are a dedicated video junkie.

It does decode TrueHD, there's just no way of getting the decompressed output untouched.

Yes, the drive in the Xbox 360 can upconvert over VGA just the same as the add-on. But neither will look as good as a true HD DVD. I've had a good upconverting player for some time. It's an improvement, but HD DVD is a BIG improvement.

Blockbuster does rent HD DVDs online, and some stores are starting to add them in my home town. Netflix has a good selection. If you live in or near a medium-sized city, you should be able to find a brick and mortar rental shop that carries them.

HDMI would likely make zero difference in picture quality. MS apparently decided that it wasn't worth the time and money to offer it because every HD set has component and every 1080p set has a deinterlacer that can handle a 1080i input. The sets that do have HDMI also have a variety of implementations that create handshake and setup problems that would increase the tech support bill.

1080p TVs have good deinterlacers built in. They have to, because a majority of HD broadcasts are 1080i. Using component and outputting 1080i from the Xbox doesn't cost you any resolution on an HD DVD movie. Most people who have tried both component and VGA say they see little or no difference.

It you feel you must have 1080p, a VGA cable with the optical out for audio costs $40 (or $15 for the Pelican version on eBay.)

If all you want to do is upscale standard DVDs, you can buy a decent upscaling player for roughly the same price as the Xbox add-on -- but it won't play HD DVDs.

IMHO, the add-on is a no-brainer for anybody with an Xbox and an HDTV. But it's your money and your call.


the vga cable i got has rca composite red and white audio along side the VGA which actually causes a problem as i'm not sure where to plug the red and white into my tv as next to my VGA is just a single pc audio input so i'm not sure whre to put the red and white auio in to get sound from tv.

i have a separate optical audio cable for 360 to go to receiver which i guess i'd still need to keep cus i like sound coming from tv and receiver.

as far as upconverting yeah i agree you mine as well have an hddvd player as it can upconvert and play hddvd when you want to or have that chance without feeling like you have to. the upconverting dvd playes are limited to just that.

so i can prob sell my 1080p upconverting dvd player though it is hdmi which the 360 isn't but i guess i dont need both.

only thing that is a pain is that from what i understand i'll have to download an update for the 360 for 1080p and for improved pic/colors with vga cable etc.

what is easiest way to get these updatea. i dont have it in room with pc and heafd i can't connect to to a router which is connected to a laptop already on a wifi connection. looks like i will have to buy the $100 wireless adapter.
thats one thing you can say for an upconverter or stand alone hddvd player. you dont have to install it (with disc on 360) and then download 1080p, vga , etc. updates to teh 360.


the other thing that will mostly bother my wife is that regular upconvert or hddvd players look more likea dvd player with buttons and read out screen etc while the 360 hddvd just looks like a disk drive.

If you bought MS VGA cable, it has RCA to phone adapter in small plastic bag, otherwise Radio shack has similar adapter for about $5.
As far as Xbox360 update goes: you could run 50 ft cable to the modem, just for the update which takes about 2 min with fast connection and disconnect it afterwords or you can download update to your computer and burn it to CD. I think more info on that is on Xbox.com.

There's no question the 360 HD DVD add on is a winner.

I bought a pair of them. One for my 360 and one for an HTPC.

Are they perfect? No. Most notable the fact that it doesn't decode Dolby TrueHD.

That said, I paid less for both units than I just paid for my Toshiba A2. The Toshiba is unquestionably superior -- but not (IMHO) worth 2x the price, unless you are a dedicated video junkie.Good luck w/ the HTPC setup. I gave up on it for now.

Most notable the fact that it doesn't decode Dolby TrueHD.
Of course not - it's just a transport. The 360 console, however, does decode Dolby TrueHD which it transcodes to DD+ and outputs thru the optical digital out. The output port does have unused pins which theoretically could be used for 5.1 analog out. 2 pins are already used for stereo L & R. I don't know if a firmware fix will allow the use of the unused pins - that's something a MS engineer should be able to tell us. I think 5.1 analog out is more feasible than HDMI.

If you bought MS VGA cable, it has RCA to phone adapter in small plastic bag, otherwise Radio shack has similar adapter for about $5.
As far as Xbox360 update goes: you could run 50 ft cable to the modem, just for the update which takes about 2 min with fast connection and disconnect it afterwords or you can download update to your computer and burn it to CD. I think more info on that is on Xbox.com.

i did get the ms vga cable i thought i dont remember seeing an adapter in the packaging but i'll check again cus yeah for my tv it only has a small one hole next to vga for pc audio. what you called phone?

i have the optical running to receiver and most ppl dont use the tv sound especialy for movie but i like having both even if i turn the tv down mostly.

i could run the optical to tv and then the rca to receiver but i'd rather have the good optical going to tv.

i know for the optical cable that came with an adapter for optical into a small one pin but it wasn't even the same size as the pc audio input so i guess its for digital audio input that isn't optical

anyway i tested the rca in other slots in tv to see if i get sound with vga and i dont so the only way prob is through that hole

i really dont think my ms vga cable came with adapter for rca to pc audio in (again what you called phone though i think you meant phono i guess)

so i better look for that cus no other input is going to give me the sound not when im on the pc source of tv. worst to worst maybe get from radio shack like you said

In better news though and to let anyone else tyring to do same thing. I was able to get my 360 online by just connecting it to my laptop via the ethernet cable that comes wit the 360 and checking one option in my wireless connection under network connections. so that was great

saves me $100 for wireless adapter for 360. means having laptop siting there wired to 360 but thats not so bad and means i can also stream stuff from laptop to the tv which is good cus the 360 is using my one vga input on the tv that i would regularly plug lptop into.

then maybe i can stream stuff from desktop pc to laptop on wireless network and then onto the tv with 360 that way.

ok yay i found it! i forgot about that. its an adapter with rca audio red adn white to pc audio input (phono) and unlike when you have hdmi from cable boc to tv and then optical audio from box to receiver it all syncs. i dont know why hdmi and optical audio dont syns

it also came with some type of vga adapter with male on one side and femaile on the other. not sure what you use that for though.

anyway not only does tv and surround sound sync the 360 hddvd addon is awesome. playing kong on it now.

will have to see how it upconverts reg dvd to 1080p compared to my denon 757 1080p upconvert but since i heard that for upconverting the regular 360 drive is better then hddvd addon and a dedicated player is still a little better then both.

it seems to be only letter boxed with the kong hddvd that comes with the addon drive and you can't zoom in or make it full screen with vga. luckily i'm on a 67" 1080p tv so its still huge.

i think it will be great for hddvds and again just have to compare it to the normal 360 drive and the denon 757 to see which of the 3 imo is best at 1080p upconversion

Good luck w/ the HTPC setup. I gave up on it for now.

Heh, it is actually working very well. PowerDVD 6.5 decodes HD DVD just fine.

I believe the latest WinDVD does HD DVD/BD as well but I don't care for WinDVD.

Heh, it is actually working very well. PowerDVD 6.5 decodes HD DVD just fine.

I believe the latest WinDVD does HD DVD/BD as well but I don't care for WinDVD.I haven't tried the PowerDVD 6.5, but I tried the JPN version of WinDVD platinum. It is useless. It is very inconsistent. But wait, PowerDVD 6.5 is not available for sale. I don't know how you managed to get it.

What HD player do you own (HD DVD owners including Xbox add on)

Placed in both the HD DVD and Blu-ray hardware forums.

If you own both you can post in the poll for the other format

Poll for HD DVD owners
What HD player do you own (HD DVD owners including Xbox add on)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=768075

Poll for Blu-ray owners
What HD player do you own (Blu-ray owners including PS3)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=768087

Figured I'd do a cross-post, though it looks like most of the folks in this thread have a 1080p TV's (sigh)...

Picked up the VGA connector for the Xbox 360. I’ve noticed that I have some distortion / flicker when connected to my HLP6163. The best way I can describe it is a slight waviness / movement in the image; like what you see when you have screen refresh issue. It’s noticeable when looking at an image that isn’t moving (dashboard, game start screens, hd-dvd's, black screens, etc). This is with using 1280 x 720 resolution. I’ve verified this doesn’t occur on my LCD monitor, so it looks to be an issue with the TV and not the cable or Xbox.

Anyone seeing anything similar or know of a fix?

saw miami vice last night. seems to me it has inconsistent video quality. it is the movie, not the player in my opinion because i see the the same thing on the same scenes while watching the sd version.

MV is filmed digitally and with film but they added Digital Film Noise and Digital Film Grain, the same can be seen in his other movies like Collateral and Heat, other film like War of the World, Private Ryan etc use that too..

FYI - Sam's Club has the HD 360 drives for $181

There's no question the 360 HD DVD add on is a winner.

I bought a pair of them. One for my 360 and one for an HTPC.

Are they perfect? No. Most notable the fact that it doesn't decode Dolby TrueHD.

That said, I paid less for both units than I just paid for my Toshiba A2. The Toshiba is unquestionably superior -- but not (IMHO) worth 2x the price, unless you are a dedicated video junkie.

Unquestionably superior? I have the Xbox HD and a Toshiba XA1. The Toshiba, with the 2.0 update, has audio sputters on two of my purchased HDDVDs (Eagles Farewell I and Pat Metheny) and of the 4 Netflix rentals, won't play three of them (or locks up at random moments). The Xbox DVD drive plays all 4 disks and no issues with my concert DVDs.

The only "complaint" is that the sound quality isn't the best. The Toshiba shined there -- when it was working. Looking forward to DTS (which is advertised on the box!).

JW

Figured I'd do a cross-post, though it looks like most of the folks in this thread have a 1080p TV's (sigh)...

Picked up the VGA connector for the Xbox 360. I’ve noticed that I have some distortion / flicker when connected to my HLP6163. The best way I can describe it is a slight waviness / movement in the image; like what you see when you have screen refresh issue. It’s noticeable when looking at an image that isn’t moving (dashboard, game start screens, hd-dvd's, black screens, etc). This is with using 1280 x 720 resolution. I’ve verified this doesn’t occur on my LCD monitor, so it looks to be an issue with the TV and not the cable or Xbox.

Anyone seeing anything similar or know of a fix?

I see a similar flicker (usually on the lower part of the screen) at 720p using the VGA connector to my Sanyo Z4... don't know what causes it.

when I play reg dvds on both the normal 360 drive and hddvd addon the screen is 4:3 square more or less even though tv is set 16:9.

I'm using VGA and res set to 1920x1080 on the 360 so I'm assuming that is the prob?

for some stuff I can. adjust the picture size and enlarge it but some stuff like this it is already as big as it can get.

so if I lower the res on the 360 the display size should get bigger? but then its not 1080p. I guess it still upconverts it to 1080p but if you have 360 set to that highest 1920x1080 res you jnust get a square picture that can't be zoomed or enlarged for reg dvds.

thing is its fine for most everything else so its a pain to change all the time.

guess I will just use 360 for games, hddvd addon for hddvds and the 1080p upconvert on hdmi for reg dvds.

I kind of want to keep the 360 at that highest res but remember seeing something about using certain res for 360. is there one that is most ideal?

I jus picked this up at Circuit City. Came home and tried it out on my 70in Pioneer rear projection. PQ is pretty good but looks like it can still get better. I think the HD content I get through Comcast is a bit better. But I'm pretty disappointed in the Audio Quality of King Kong. It seems very lacking. Anyone know if this is going to be fixed anytime soon?

I jus picked this up at Circuit City. Came home and tried it out on my 70in Pioneer rear projection. PQ is pretty good but looks like it can still get better. I think the HD content I get through Comcast is a bit better. But I'm pretty disappointed in the Audio Quality of King Kong. It seems very lacking. Anyone know if this is going to be fixed anytime soon? If HD content of OTA and cable is better than HD-DVD add-on, your TV is likely not properly calibrated. I am using three HD CableCards from COX on two HD LCD and one DLP. The PQ for the add-on is superior to HD content of OTA and CableCard for most of us in here. I agreed that the AQ need to be improved and MS is working on the firmware for it.

Figured I'd do a cross-post, though it looks like most of the folks in this thread have a 1080p TV's (sigh)...

Picked up the VGA connector for the Xbox 360. I’ve noticed that I have some distortion / flicker when connected to my HLP6163. The best way I can describe it is a slight waviness / movement in the image; like what you see when you have screen refresh issue. It’s noticeable when looking at an image that isn’t moving (dashboard, game start screens, hd-dvd's, black screens, etc). This is with using 1280 x 720 resolution. I’ve verified this doesn’t occur on my LCD monitor, so it looks to be an issue with the TV and not the cable or Xbox.

Anyone seeing anything similar or know of a fix?It is likely that your DLP is not properly equipped with the proper firmware for HD content over VGA.

Hello guys,


From today, when i put an HDDVD disk in my reader a message is coming asking me to upgrade!
If i chose to not upgrade, im disconected from the live but i can continue watching HDDVD movie!

Do you know what is included in this HDDVD upgrade?
Maybe it's a region coding upgrade, dont want it!

Thanks a lot :)

GB

it is not a region coding upgrade. This upgarde is weeks old and fixes some bugs that were title specific. when was the last time you used the drive?

I used it yesterday and not asking for upgrade! i know what you are talking about, it was the upgrade when you first used the reader. Today it's seem that is an other upgrade!

I'm from Belgium maybe it's a late update for what you said in your last post!?...

GB

It is likely that your DLP is not properly equipped with the proper firmware for HD content over VGA.

Ugh...if that is true, that would require a board replacement in the HLP models. Oh well...just another reason why I want a new TV...

Ross

I used it yesterday and not asking for upgrade! i know what you are talking about, it was the upgrade when you first used the reader. Today it's seem that is an other upgrade!

I'm from Belgium maybe it's a late update for what you said in your last post!?...

GB

They are not changing region coding. These latest updates were title specific changes to fix compatability.

TimT

I have the HD DVD addon and I have been very happy, but I'm wondering if I should switch to VGA instead of Component after reading this thread.

I have a Toshiba 50hp66, 720p native, supports 1080i, not 1080p. Will there be any distinct advantage between VGA and Component if I don't have a 1080p tv? I currently use Component cables and Optical audio through my receiver.

Thanks for the help.

I have the HD DVD addon and I have been very happy, but I'm wondering if I should switch to VGA instead of Component after reading this thread.

I have a Toshiba 50hp66, 720p native, supports 1080i, not 1080p. Will there be any distinct advantage between VGA and Component if I don't have a 1080p tv? I currently use Component cables and Optical audio through my receiver.

Thanks for the help.


Advantage to 720p between Component and VGA. Doubtful, but possible.

Anyone tried the Joytech VGA connector? It's <$20, vs the $40 that the M$FT wants, or the $60 that Monster wants. There's also a MadCatz one for <$20, but their PS2 controller once blew out my PS2 controller port, so never buying another one of those.

Mine works great on my SXRD 60 HDMI switched via my RX-V2700 running componet upconvert! Getting all of the netflix HD titles in my Q

I love the 360 player. I have purchased 2 so far for friends, etc. It plays flawlessly.

Anyone tried the Joytech VGA connector? It's <$20, vs the $40 that the M$FT wants, or the $60 that Monster wants. There's also a MadCatz one for <$20, but their PS2 controller once blew out my PS2 controller port, so never buying another one of those.I have the Joytech VGA cable and it's working great for me. I haven't compared it to the M$ cable though.

I have the HD DVD addon and I have been very happy, but I'm wondering if I should switch to VGA instead of Component after reading this thread.

I have a Toshiba 50hp66, 720p native, supports 1080i, not 1080p. Will there be any distinct advantage between VGA and Component if I don't have a 1080p tv? I currently use Component cables and Optical audio through my receiver.

Thanks for the help.VGA can up-conversion standard DVD, and component is not. The PQ for both connects are very similar. VGA is troublesome for some TV set. It is trouble free on my set..!

Anyone tried the Joytech VGA connector? It's <$20, vs the $40 that the M$FT wants, or the $60 that Monster wants. There's also a MadCatz one for <$20, but their PS2 controller once blew out my PS2 controller port, so never buying another one of those.I got it on eBay from this guy for $15 US, and it is the MS Xbox version. It work great. Unfortunately, AVS block eBay website. You can look for item #150070987653 on eBay.

I got it on eBay from this guy for $15 US, and it is the MS Xbox version. It work great. Unfortunately, AVS block eBay website. You can look for item #150070987653 on eBay.


It's a Made in China clone BTW not the Microsoft version.

It's a Made in China clone BTW not the Microsoft version.Clone or not, it look identical. The PQ/AQ is identical. I tried the MS version of HD VGA before I ordered the eBay version. If it is bad, I wouldn’t recommend it..!

Thanks, just want to know the facts. Not sure if I'll go VGA. My Westy 42" does a good job of scaling from Component in. But the VGA input is easier to access using remote macro, the Westy is a semi-TOAD.

Thanks, just want to know the facts. Not sure if I'll go VGA. My Westy 42" does a good job of scaling from Component in. But the VGA input is easier to access using remote macro, the Westy is a semi-TOAD.If you do not have any need to use the Xbox to up convert the standard DVD, you do not need VGA.

I know I'm probably repeating these questions for the umpteenth time, but there were tooo many posts to read the entire thread...

(1) Is there any rumor of an Xbox360 variant with the HD DVD drive replacing the internal DVD drive?

(2) Any info on the start time to get the 360 running and have the HD DVD drive spin up to speed? (15 secs? 30 secs?)

(3) Does the 360 HD DVD combo have autorun? Can you just insert disk and press play on the remote? Or do you have to wade through a bunch of menus first?

Thanks.

I know I'm probably repeating these questions for the umpteenth time, but there were tooo many posts to read the entire thread...

(1) Is there any rumor of an Xbox360 variant with the HD DVD drive replacing the internal DVD drive?

(2) Any info on the start time to get the 360 running and have the HD DVD drive spin up to speed? (15 secs? 30 secs?)

(3) Does the 360 HD DVD combo have autorun? Can you just insert disk and press play on the remote? Or do you have to wade through a bunch of menus first?

Thanks.

1. There's rumors, but Microsoft has denied the possibility.
2. It's about 40-455 seconds from the Xbox 360 being completely off to actual playback. Switching disc takes about 10 seconds to start playback.
3. Inserting an HD-DVD disc with the Xbox360 on, automatically starts playback. All blades (the GUI on the Xbox360), show the play/eject button for both the HD-DVD drive and internal drive, you can just easily select it without going through any menus.

It is way too simple, plug n play

I know I'm probably repeating these questions for the umpteenth time, but there were tooo many posts to read the entire thread...

(1) Is there any rumor of an Xbox360 variant with the HD DVD drive replacing the internal DVD drive?

(2) Any info on the start time to get the 360 running and have the HD DVD drive spin up to speed? (15 secs? 30 secs?)

(3) Does the 360 HD DVD combo have autorun? Can you just insert disk and press play on the remote? Or do you have to wade through a bunch of menus first?

Thanks.The add-on HD-DVD operates the same way as a standard DVD player with better PQ.

Hi,

I have the HD-DVD add-on and have it set up on a Hitachi 51" rear projection TV that outputs 1080i. Will I get a better picture if I use the VGA cable or the HD cable that came with my system? Sorry - WAY too many pages in this thread to find an answer!

Hi,

I have the HD-DVD add-on and have it set up on a Hitachi 51" rear projection TV that outputs 1080i. Will I get a better picture if I use the VGA cable or the HD cable that came with my system? Sorry - WAY too many pages in this thread to find an answer!The PQ of HD VGA and component video cable are comparable, but VGA can up convert standard DVD movies.

it's a moot point...I just realized that both my 51S500 and my 56TXi don't have VGA...thank you though...

it's a moot point...I just realized that both my 51S500 and my 56TXi don't have VGA...thank you though...You don't need HD VGA. You can get a cheap up-conversion DVD player.

Anyone tried the Joytech VGA connector? It's <$20, vs the $40 that the M$FT wants, or the $60 that Monster wants. There's also a MadCatz one for <$20, but their PS2 controller once blew out my PS2 controller port, so never buying another one of those.

Check R S... they have the monster VGA for $29 .. Its a great deal if you have the old xbox monster cable with the little optical dongle ...

VGA can up-conversion standard DVD, and component is not. The PQ for both connects are very similar. VGA is troublesome for some TV set. It is trouble free on my set..!

I get slight studders when i play back HD movies with the VGA cable. But it doesnt happen with the componet hookup... I've tried the MS & Monster Vga cable with the same results

Samsung HLN 437W

You looked at the wrong place. You might want to visit here: Movies Release Calendar (http://www.dvdtown.com/moviedatabase/releasecalendar/December/2006)

Even that link doesnt look too acurate... Hitch Hikers Guide to The Galaxy is supposed to be released in Jan 07 according to Netflix

Jet Li's Fearless was supposed to be released on Dec 19 on HDDVD according to Netflix as well but it now has an unknown release date on there website

Fearless is out, I saw it at Fry's

Anyone w/the HLSXX87W...

I use this player and I've noticed that it is too dark with my current settings compared to how it was with standard DVDs. Anyone have their settings they use with this TV when watching their HD-DVDs and also for the heck of it, any settings used for gaming. Thanks. -Wes-

Sorry if this has been covered but does it support the advanced audio formats like DD+, etc.? If so, is this done only through HDMI? Thanks.

Will

Fearless is out, I saw it at Fry's

you saw the HD DVD?

I know the regular version was released on the 19th

Sorry if this has been covered but does it support the advanced audio formats like DD+, etc.? If so, is this done only through HDMI? Thanks.

Will

it decodes the new formats but outputs them to DD 5.1 currently and is rumored to output them to DTS 5.1 in the future with an update

I get slight studders when i play back HD movies with the VGA cable. But it doesnt happen with the componet hookup... I've tried the MS & Monster Vga cable with the same results

Samsung HLN 437WJust as I said, the different brands of VGA cable wouldn't make any different in PQ. I got the clone version of MS HD VGA on eBay. It looks identical in physical and PQ. It is $15. I wouldn't waste money on the fancy brand name.

You might want to call Samsung regarding the troubles. They might have an update firmware to fix it.

Even that link doesnt look too acurate... Hitch Hikers Guide to The Galaxy is supposed to be released in Jan 07 according to Netflix

Jet Li's Fearless was supposed to be released on Dec 19 on HDDVD according to Netflix as well but it now has an unknown release date on there websiteSometime, it is depending on how often they update their website. I got the FearLess from buy.com for $25: Buy.com (http://www.buy.com/prod/Jet_Li_Fearless_HD_DVD_DVD_Combo/q/loc/322/203391258.html) It is very good discount for using Google check-out option.

Anyone w/the HLSXX87W...

I use this player and I've noticed that it is too dark with my current settings compared to how it was with standard DVDs. Anyone have their settings they use with this TV when watching their HD-DVDs and also for the heck of it, any settings used for gaming. Thanks. -Wes-It seems Samsung HDTV have the most troubles with HD-DVD add-on. Perhaps Samsung owe you guy the firmware for their VGA option. I don't have any trouble with my 56 Toshiba DLP and the other Sharp 32 and 42 inches LCD. I use so much component and VGA cables on the Toshiba. I never have to do anything different to adjust the PQ. The color of HD contents between COX HD CableCard and HD-DVD add-on is comparable. The PQ of HD-DVD is better than HD CableCard.

Sorry if this has been covered but does it support the advanced audio formats like DD+, etc.? If so, is this done only through HDMI? Thanks.

WillNo, not yet. MS still working on it. There is no HDMI option for the current Xbox 360.

They have said in the past that they may make a hdmi adapter so you could use hdmi for the xbox 360. This was back at x06 or the community meeting not sure which.

it decodes the new formats but outputs them to DD 5.1 currently and is rumored to output them to DTS 5.1 in the future with an update


Is there any update on this yet? I love getting DTS 6.1 via optical from my PS3 and would expect nothing less from my 360/add-on.

I have to say that I'd rather have a 360 dongle with 5.1 analog outs than with HDMI. Both would be great, though that would be a monstrous cable bundle, I imagine. :D Maybe 5.1 analog output cable that would plug into the optical port? Would that be doable?

Just as I said, the different brands of VGA cable wouldn't make any different in PQ. I got the clone version of MS HD VGA on eBay. It looks identical in physical and PQ. It is $15. I wouldn't waste money on the fancy brand name.

You might want to call Samsung regarding the troubles. They might have an update firmware to fix it.

thanks... im not into paying those high prices either.... origanlly i bought the ms vga for 40 + tax and then i saw the monster one on a website for a large chain store through out the US for $29

Is there any update on this yet? I love getting DTS 6.1 via optical from my PS3 and would expect nothing less from my 360/add-on.

I have to say that I'd rather have a 360 dongle with 5.1 analog outs than with HDMI. Both would be great, though that would be a monstrous cable bundle, I imagine. :D Maybe 5.1 analog output cable that would plug into the optical port? Would that be doable?


not yet

Is there any update on this yet? I love getting DTS 6.1 via optical from my PS3 and would expect nothing less from my 360/add-on.

I have to say that I'd rather have a 360 dongle with 5.1 analog outs than with HDMI. Both would be great, though that would be a monstrous cable bundle, I imagine. :D Maybe 5.1 analog output cable that would plug into the optical port? Would that be doable?

Just got the add-on today, and have not read this whole thread. But, played a SD DVD on it and it put out DTS 6.1 discrete to my Denon receiver via optical. Not sure if this has been covered yet.

Scott

I initially posted this in a new thread, but I just realized it would probably reach more pertinent eyes and minds here:

I have a Denon 1910 for my SD DVDs running through DVI to my 50" Sony GWIII RP LCD (non XBR). I have been very happy with this solution since day one. However, with the arrival of my 360 HD DVD add-on (which I'm absolutely in love with), I am toying with the idea of consolidating all DVD duties to the Xbox and passing the Denon on to my parents. My 360 is running through component (the TV's sole digital input is occupied by the Denon), so I haven't had a chance to see how good its upconversion algorithms are.

So my question is this: if I were to switch to VGA (and requisite DVI adapter), how would the 360's upconversion compare to the Denon's Faroudja chipset (which is fairly impressive IMHO)? Naturally, using the 360 for all DVD duties would simplify my life and take up less space. Here's what's weighing on my mind:

1) Are the 360's upconversion/deinterlacing algorithms on par with the Denon's Faroudja?

2) The 1910 does not pillarbox 4:3 material when outputting at 720p or 1080i, resulting in a stretched image. Does the 360 preserve proper aspect ratio when upconverting 4:3 programming?

3) How much degradation can I expect from the multiple signal conversions that would be involved with the 360 (ie, digital source -> analog VGA -> digital DVI)? Negligible or a legitimate concern?

4) I have fluctuated back and forth over the past few years, but at the moment I am settled on sending 1080i to my TV for 24fps content, despite the fact that its native resolution is closer to 720p. I prefer this image over 720p for both the Denon and the 360 (720p for gaming however), and interlacing is something of a non-issue with 24fps source material anyway since no information is lost. That said, I understand the 360's VGA cable offers a plasma/WXGA output res of 1360x768, which is nearly 1:1 pixel mapping for my TV's 1366x768 native res. I wonder if this would be the optimum solution, and whether the difference would be appreciable.

5) If MS releases an HDMI cable in the near future, I may be spinning my wheels right now. It would be a no brainer for me at that point.

Any comments and opinions are welcome. As of this writing, I'm leaving well enough alone (at least until #5 happens), but I had to at least pick your collective brains on this matter.

blockbuster online does rent hddvd
I can't seem to find any of the titles online.

I can't seem to find any of the titles online.

Yes they do, 3 just arrived today! Look in collections. Yeah, they need a better system. ;)

I initially posted this in a new thread, but I just realized it would probably reach more pertinent eyes and minds here:

I have a Denon 1910 for my SD DVDs running through DVI to my 50" Sony GWIII RP LCD (non XBR). I have been very happy with this solution since day one. However, with the arrival of my 360 HD DVD add-on (which I'm absolutely in love with), I am toying with the idea of consolidating all DVD duties to the Xbox and passing the Denon on to my parents. My 360 is running through component (the TV's sole digital input is occupied by the Denon), so I haven't had a chance to see how good its upconversion algorithms are.

So my question is this: if I were to switch to VGA (and requisite DVI adapter), how would the 360's upconversion compare to the Denon's Faroudja chipset (which is fairly impressive IMHO)? Naturally, using the 360 for all DVD duties would simplify my life and take up less space. Here's what's weighing on my mind:

1) Are the 360's upconversion/deinterlacing algorithms on par with the Denon's Faroudja?

2) The 1910 does not pillarbox 4:3 material when outputting at 720p or 1080i, resulting in a stretched image. Does the 360 preserve proper aspect ratio when upconverting 4:3 programming?

3) How much degradation can I expect from the multiple signal conversions that would be involved with the 360 (ie, digital source -> analog VGA -> digital DVI)? Negligible or a legitimate concern?

4) I have fluctuated back and forth over the past few years, but at the moment I am settled on sending 1080i to my TV for 24fps content, despite the fact that its native resolution is closer to 720p. I prefer this image over 720p for both the Denon and the 360 (720p for gaming however), and interlacing is something of a non-issue with 24fps source material anyway since no information is lost. That said, I understand the 360's VGA cable offers a plasma/WXGA output res of 1360x768, which is nearly 1:1 pixel mapping for my TV's 1366x768 native res. I wonder if this would be the optimum solution, and whether the difference would be appreciable.

5) If MS releases an HDMI cable in the near future, I may be spinning my wheels right now. It would be a no brainer for me at that point.

Any comments and opinions are welcome. As of this writing, I'm leaving well enough alone (at least until #5 happens), but I had to at least pick your collective brains on this matter.
I wouldn't do it because of the sound quality.
Keep the Denon

Yes they do, 3 just arrived today! Look in collections. Yeah, they need a better system. ;)
thank you very much. I kept trying to search under "HD-DVD"...it's strange why they won't show up like that. Anyhow thanks for the tip...

I initially posted this in a new thread, but I just realized it would probably reach more pertinent eyes and minds here:

I have a Denon 1910 for my SD DVDs running through DVI to my 50" Sony GWIII RP LCD (non XBR). I have been very happy with this solution since day one. However, with the arrival of my 360 HD DVD add-on (which I'm absolutely in love with), I am toying with the idea of consolidating all DVD duties to the Xbox and passing the Denon on to my parents. My 360 is running through component (the TV's sole digital input is occupied by the Denon), so I haven't had a chance to see how good its upconversion algorithms are.

So my question is this: if I were to switch to VGA (and requisite DVI adapter), how would the 360's upconversion compare to the Denon's Faroudja chipset (which is fairly impressive IMHO)? Naturally, using the 360 for all DVD duties would simplify my life and take up less space. Here's what's weighing on my mind:

1) Are the 360's upconversion/deinterlacing algorithms on par with the Denon's Faroudja?

2) The 1910 does not pillarbox 4:3 material when outputting at 720p or 1080i, resulting in a stretched image. Does the 360 preserve proper aspect ratio when upconverting 4:3 programming?

3) How much degradation can I expect from the multiple signal conversions that would be involved with the 360 (ie, digital source -> analog VGA -> digital DVI)? Negligible or a legitimate concern?

4) I have fluctuated back and forth over the past few years, but at the moment I am settled on sending 1080i to my TV for 24fps content, despite the fact that its native resolution is closer to 720p. I prefer this image over 720p for both the Denon and the 360 (720p for gaming however), and interlacing is something of a non-issue with 24fps source material anyway since no information is lost. That said, I understand the 360's VGA cable offers a plasma/WXGA output res of 1360x768, which is nearly 1:1 pixel mapping for my TV's 1366x768 native res. I wonder if this would be the optimum solution, and whether the difference would be appreciable.

5) If MS releases an HDMI cable in the near future, I may be spinning my wheels right now. It would be a no brainer for me at that point.

Any comments and opinions are welcome. As of this writing, I'm leaving well enough alone (at least until #5 happens), but I had to at least pick your collective brains on this matter.

I can answer some of your questions, maybe someone else will chime in.

1.) Nothing deinterlaces like a Faroudja. The Xbox is a good upscaler and has gotten good reviews. I kept my Tosh V592 upscaler (also Faroudja) mainly for convenience. It seemed the all-digital chain of the Tosh over HDMI kept the image ever-so-slightly crisper. My wife can't tell the difference, and I could be imagining things.

2.) Depends on your set. My Sammy DLP assumes all digital connections output 16:9 but lets me adjust for proper 4:3 display. So with the Tosh I have to manually adjust the set to pillarbox, but with the 360 over component both 16:9 and 4:3 display the way they're supposed to. I could stretch the 4:3 if I wanted -- but why???

3.) Not much degradation digital to analog, but I've never used a VGA-DVI adapter so I can't answer that one.

4.) Another one I'm not qualified to answer. 1080i does look better for HD DVD because my Sammy deinterlaces and downscales to its native 720p better than the Xbox. I have no experience with 1366x768.

The best answers, of course, are the ones you come up with on your own. A VGA cable for the Xbox costs $15-40, and trying it is the only way to know for sure how it will work on your setup.

I wouldn't do it because of the sound quality.
Keep the Denon

I believe the sound quality would be identical, since both the Denon and 360 are sending the same digital stream for my receiver to decode into 5.1 discrete channels (Denon using coax, 360 using optical). Correct me if I'm wrong here.

And to be honest, my audio setup is the clear bottleneck of my rig. It's embarrassing really, but that's a whole other can of worms. :)

Unless you were referring to the 360 add-on's issues with recompressing DD+ tracks? Which does suck, I agree, but AFAIK doesn't affect SD DVD audio (since "normal" DD and DTS can be sent over optical without recompression).

I can answer some of your questions, maybe someone else will chime in.

1.) Nothing deinterlaces like a Faroudja. The Xbox is a good upscaler and has gotten good reviews. I kept my Tosh V592 upscaler (also Faroudja) mainly for convenience. It seemed the all-digital chain of the Tosh over HDMI kept the image ever-so-slightly crisper. My wife can't tell the difference, and I could be imagining things.

2.) Depends on your set. My Sammy DLP assumes all digital connections output 16:9 but lets me adjust for proper 4:3 display. So with the Tosh I have to manually adjust the set to pillarbox, but with the 360 over component both 16:9 and 4:3 display the way they're supposed to. I could stretch the 4:3 if I wanted -- but why???

3.) Not much degradation digital to analog, but I've never used a VGA-DVI adapter so I can't answer that one.

4.) Another one I'm not qualified to answer. 1080i does look better for HD DVD because my Sammy deinterlaces and downscales to its native 720p better than the Xbox. I have no experience with 1366x768.

The best answers, of course, are the ones you come up with on your own. A VGA cable for the Xbox costs $15-40, and trying it is the only way to know for sure how it will work on your setup.

1) I agree, the Faroudja is amazing. I suspected that the 360 wouldn't be able to keep up in this respect, but I suppose I need to give it a whirl to know for sure.

2) Like your Samsung, my Sony assumes all 720p and 1080i signals are 16:9 (480p can be stretched, even over DVI). The problem is, the Denon 1910 has no pillarbox option. Anything upconverted to 720p/1080i will fill the entire 16:9 frame, so I'm forced to either send 480p (in which case I'm better off sending 480i and letting the TV upscale) or live with a stretched image. I assume that the 360 is sending the proper aspect ratio because it will only send 480p over component (for SD DVD playback). Do you know if it will pillarbox at 720p/1080i over VGA?

Ultimately, you're right, the only sure way to know is to rig it up and take it for a spin. Just thought I'd throw it out there and see what everyone else's take is. :)

Anyone have new heart hd-dvd can't get mine to go past menus

Anyone have new heart hd-dvd can't get mine to go past menus

I saw in another thread that the Xbox 360 add-on will not play that DVD.

Scott

does the denon 757 1080p upconvert player have faroudja?

1) I agree, the Faroudja is amazing. I suspected that the 360 wouldn't be able to keep up in this respect, but I suppose I need to give it a whirl to know for sure.

2) Like your Samsung, my Sony assumes all 720p and 1080i signals are 16:9 (480p can be stretched, even over DVI). The problem is, the Denon 1910 has no pillarbox option. Anything upconverted to 720p/1080i will fill the entire 16:9 frame, so I'm forced to either send 480p (in which case I'm better off sending 480i and letting the TV upscale) or live with a stretched image. I assume that the 360 is sending the proper aspect ratio because it will only send 480p over component (for SD DVD playback). Do you know if it will pillarbox at 720p/1080i over VGA?

Ultimately, you're right, the only sure way to know is to rig it up and take it for a spin. Just thought I'd throw it out there and see what everyone else's take is. :)I would stick with Denon 1910 for the standard DVD up scaling, and Xbox 360 and its HD-DVD add-on for the HD-DVD. The VGA of Xbox 360 does a good job of up scaling the standard DVD. But it doesn't fill in the entire screen as the Xbox 360 component video connection. If you don’t mind the smaller screen of the VGA of Xbox 360, the PQ of VGA is comparable to Xbox 360 component video connection.

I would stick with Denon 1910 for the standard DVD up scaling, and Xbox 360 and its HD-DVD add-on for the HD-DVD. The VGA of Xbox 360 does a good job of up scaling the standard DVD. But it doesn't fill in the entire screen as the Xbox 360 component video connection. If you don’t mind the smaller screen of the VGA of Xbox 360, the PQ of VGA is comparable to Xbox 360 component video connection.

I second your advice to keep the Denon for upscaling. But filling the screen on VGA is strictly display dependent -- some TVs do it and some don't depending on how they implement VGA. Others shift it to one side, crush blacks because they're expecting PC levels instead of Video levels, etc.

That's why VGA is a crap shoot. Some people report that it looks better than component, others worse. The difference lies in the display.

does the denon 757 1080p upconvert player have faroudja?

Yes.

Scott

I second your advice to keep the Denon for upscaling. But filling the screen on VGA is strictly display dependent -- some TVs do it and some don't depending on how they implement VGA. Others shift it to one side, crush blacks because they're expecting PC levels instead of Video levels, etc.

That's why VGA is a crap shoot. Some people report that it looks better than component, others worse. The difference lies in the display.I wish it is on my HTPC. There is a lot of option to fill in the screen on HTPC. I tried the VGA of the Xbox 360 on two 42 inches LCD, one 56 inches DLP and one 72 inches DLP. These are three different brand names of the displays. The fill in screen looks identical. It didn't fill in the rest of the screen, but the PQ is great. For me, it doesn't bother me to lose a couple inches from the 56 inches. The PQ of VGA and component are comparable.

And I doubt that anyone can get the VGA on Xbox 360 to look and display better than the component video. The best I can get is to match the PQ of component video. The VGA setting is very limited on Xbox 360.

I wish it is on my HTPC. There is a lot of option to fill in the screen on HTPC. I tried the VGA of the Xbox 360 on two 42 inches LCD, one 56 inches DLP and one 72 inches DLP. These are three different brand names of the displays. The fill in screen looks identical. It didn't fill in the rest of the screen, but the PQ is great. For me, it doesn't bother me to lose a couple inches from the 56 inches. The PQ of VGA and component are comparable.

And I doubt that anyone can get the VGA on Xbox 360 to look and display better than the component video. The best I can get is to match the PQ of component video. The VGA setting is very limited on Xbox 360.

I have no doubt you are accurately describing your experience, but it does conflict with my own and the posts of many others in this forum. It is display dependent. Your complaint of not filling the screen is NOT universal.

With 1:1 pixel mapping on a compatible set that is properly calibrated, VGA from the Xbox 360 add-on is outstanding. But then, so is component.

1080p is a mirage, IMHO, and the only real argument for using VGA is to upscale standard DVDs. For those of us who already have good upscaling players, it's a non issue.

I have no doubt you are accurately describing your experience, but it does conflict with my own and the posts of many others in this forum. It is display dependent. Your complaint of not filling the screen is NOT universal.

With 1:1 pixel mapping on a compatible set that is properly calibrated, VGA from the Xbox 360 add-on is outstanding. But then, so is component.

1080p is a mirage, IMHO, and the only real argument for using VGA is to upscale standard DVDs. For those of us who already have good upscaling players, it's a non issue.I am wondering what brand of display can fill in the screen over VGA. I tried Sharp LCD, Toshiba DLP and Mitsubishi DLP. All three brands cannot fill the entire screen, but I don't mind it. No doubt, I enjoy the HD of the add-on very much.

My Xbox add-on will not play DVD-R's, but it will play DVD+R's. Anyone else try burned discs?

Scott

The add-on plays DVD-R disc. I'm using Ritek G-4 DVD-R discs, Shrink and Nero recode.



My Xbox add-on will not play DVD-R's, but it will play DVD+R's. Anyone else try burned discs?

Scott

I am wondering what brand of display can fill in the screen over VGA. I tried Sharp LCD, Toshiba DLP and Mitsubishi DLP. All three brands cannot fill the entire screen, but I don't mind it. No doubt, I enjoy the HD of the add-on very much.
I got the HD-DVD add-on for xmas and I have a Samsung 42" DLP HL-S4266W and it fills up all of my screen via VGA. The whole experience is a window effect to me. I can't watch regular dvds anymore...

HD-DVD demo material

Santa gave me:
Chicago & Earth, Wind & Fire - Live at the Greek Theater
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000I2J79K/002-9159751-7146450

and Wow does this show off the DVD player (and my 7.1 surround system)

I first saw this concert on INHD, and bought the regular DVD. The difference between the DVD and HD-DVD on my Samsung HLR 61" is huge. I highly recomend this disk to show off your system

The add-on plays DVD-R disc. I'm using Ritek G-4 DVD-R discs, Shrink and Nero recode.

I too used shrink and recode on multiple brands of discs. None of the DVD-R's will play. Maybe I will have to return this drive for a new one.

Scott

I got the HD-DVD add-on for xmas and I have a Samsung 42" DLP HL-S4266W and it fills up all of my screen via VGA. The whole experience is a window effect to me. I can't watch regular dvds anymore...Does it fill up every HD-DVD movies you play? Did you do anything special to fill the screen over VGA?

For me, it is not worth the $15 investment on the VGA cable. The only advantage I see is the up scaling capability of the VGA. But the up scaling DVD player can do the same job. The PQ looks very similar on both cables in my comparisons.

I'll try the Xbox 360 and the HD-DVD add-on on my friend's Samsung Plasma and DLP when I get a chance.

I too used shrink and recode on multiple brands of discs. None of the DVD-R's will play. Maybe I will have to return this drive for a new one.

Scott

I can't remember but I thought one of these programs: Shrink, Recode or Burnatonce could only do DVD-R disc and not DVD+R. I only use DVD-R discs so I can't comment on DVD+R, not that I can't burn with DVD+R discs, I just never used DVD+R disc because of my earlier comment. Can you get your hands on some Riteks? The Riteks G04 from Nero Infotool, the Arita name is physically printed on the disc.

I too used shrink and recode on multiple brands of discs. None of the DVD-R's will play. Maybe I will have to return this drive for a new one.

ScottDo you try to play standard DVD? Do you have a VGA? If are you are using component video to play it, you'll be disappointed.

I don't think the HD-DVD drive stop you from playing DVD-R. It is likely to be your recording software, drive or blank disc. The entire HD-DVD ROM is manufactured the same way.

No problem here using a variety of +R and -R discs. I've even had good success burning HD DVDs on DVD-R DL. (Working on a full collection of Heroes episodes in full 1080i recorded off the air with a media center PC.)

No problem here using a variety of +R and -R discs. I've even had good success burning HD DVDs on DVD-R DL. (Working on a full collection of Heroes episodes in full 1080i recorded off the air with a media center PC.)What software do you use to burn HD-DVD movies? I want to backup some of my favorite HD-DVD movies.

What software do you use to burn HD-DVD movies? I want to backup some of my favorite HD-DVD movies.

That's not what I'm doing. I'm recording HD TV shows off the air and burning them in the HD DVD format to standard DVD-R or +R. There's a sticky thread in the HD DVD software forum that tells you how.

Basically I record using an ATI HDTV Wonder and XP Media Center. I edit out the commercials using VideoReDo, then use the resulting .mpg file to author an HD DVD in Ulead MovieFactory5 and burn with Nero to any standard DVD blank.

They play like a charm in my 360 add-on drive and they are perfect copies at full 1080i. So far I've got about half the Heroes episodes (anybody with uncompressed versions of chapters 1-5 send me a pm,) plus Xmas specials like Rudolph and the Grinch that aired in HD and a few test files. I haven't done many movies because the ones on the major networks either suck or are edited.

Currently there is no way to "back up" commercial HD DVDs because of the formidable copy protection and lack of 30 gb discs and burners.

That's not what I'm doing. I'm recording HD TV shows off the air and burning them in the HD DVD format to standard DVD-R or +R. There's a sticky thread in the HD DVD software forum that tells you how.

Basically I record using an ATI HDTV Wonder and XP Media Center. I edit out the commercials using VideoReDo, then use the resulting .mpg file to author an HD DVD in Ulead MovieFactory5 and burn with Nero to any standard DVD blank.

They play like a charm in my 360 add-on drive and they are perfect copies at full 1080i. So far I've got about half the Heroes episodes (anybody with uncompressed versions of chapters 1-5 send me a pm,) plus Xmas specials like Rudolph and the Grinch that aired in HD and a few test files. I haven't done many movies because the ones on the major networks either suck or are edited.

Currently there is no way to "back up" commercial HD DVDs because of the formidable copy protection and lack of 30 gb discs and burners.Okay, I thought that you found software to copy HD-DVD movies. As far as I know, there is no decrypter software capable of cracking AACS protection in HD-DVD movies.

I am using HD CableCard from COX, and I never have any desires to copy the shows.

I don't know if the add-on I got for Xmas is worth it, because I'd like to upconvert DVDs but that can only be done via VGA and my HTPC is connected via VGA-to-DVI. I don't know if the A2 would be better, as I can upconvert via HDMI, but that cost almost $300 more. I tried to split my VGA input using a KVM, but it looked horrible, but I have seen splitters, are they better PQ-wise?

Thinking of getting the HD DVD addon for my 360 however a friend says that the addon will work the 360 very hard since it is doing all the processing work via software and it would shorten the life span of my 360... Heard that you should not use the 360 as a DVD player due to it wearing the DVD player out doing double duty. Would having the HD DVD as my main DVD player shorten the lifespan of my 360 keep in mind I watch about 3 to 4 movies a week :) Also looking at the Toshiba HDA1 at $500 but at $300 more can not see it would be that much better in sound or picture quality to justify the cost diffrence. Looked all over the threads could not find an answer sorry if this has been covered. Thanks for any advice...

I don't know if the add-on I got for Xmas is worth it, because I'd like to upconvert DVDs but that can only be done via VGA and my HTPC is connected via VGA-to-DVI. I don't know if the A2 would be better, as I can upconvert via HDMI, but that cost almost $300 more. I tried to split my VGA input using a KVM, but it looked horrible, but I have seen splitters, are they better PQ-wise?For sure, you'll enjoy the HD movies with HD add-on over component video. VGA is problematic for certain HDTV. I would leave the HTPC for playing standard DVD.

If the HD DVD is Dolby Digital and I play it on my 360 add on, is it passing that dolby digital signal to my reciever?
When I play a movie with DD on my denon, my HK reciever will say Dolby Digital, but whel i do it on the addon, it does not.

Thinking of getting the HD DVD addon for my 360 however a friend says that the addon will work the 360 very hard since it is doing all the processing work via software and it would shorten the life span of my 360... Heard that you should not use the 360 as a DVD player due to it wearing the DVD player out doing double duty. Would having the HD DVD as my main DVD player shorten the lifespan of my 360 keep in mind I watch about 3 to 4 movies a week :) Also looking at the Toshiba HDA1 at $500 but at $300 more can not see it would be that much better in sound or picture quality to justify the cost diffrence. Looked all over the threads could not find an answer sorry if this has been covered. Thanks for any advice...If anything at all, the HD-DVD add-on will be tossed before the Xbox 360. HD-DVD add-on is designed for the Xbox 360. My HTPC have three DVD players connects to it, and I watch movies all the time. It lasts for ever. Xbox 360 is no different from the HTPC.

Does it fill up every HD-DVD movies you play? Did you do anything special to fill the screen over VGA?

For me, it is not worth the $15 investment on the VGA cable. The only advantage I see is the up scaling capability of the VGA. But the up scaling DVD player can do the same job. The PQ looks very similar on both cables in my comparisons.

I'll try the Xbox 360 and the HD-DVD add-on on my friend's Samsung Plasma and DLP when I get a chance.
Yes it fills up every part of the screen as long as the ratio is 1.85:1 and anything else will have small black bars on the top and bottom. Check out my posts on how I did it, cause at first I was having some problems not displaying properly...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9230110&&#post9230110
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9276815&&#post9276815

hope that helps, just let me know...

My sister has a DVD player I bought in 1998. It's a Sony, unfortunately, but it still works. :-) If the product is a quality made product, it will last a long time. You get what you pay for on those $30 DVD players. I've seen most of them last a year.
I agree that the HD-DVD drive will die well after you replaced with with a stand alone HD DVD player in 2-3 years.

What I am concerned with is if playing a movie on the HD DVD player works the 360 itself just as hard as Playing "Gears Of War" would this put undue strain on the 360 itself and therefore shorten its lifespan? Heard that playing an HD Movie is compared to playing "Gears Of War".. Figured at least with the addon I will nt be putting the 360's DVD through double duty playing games and movies..

If anything at all, the HD-DVD add-on will be tossed before the Xbox 360. HD-DVD add-on is designed for the Xbox 360. My HTPC have three DVD players connects to it, and I watch movies all the time. It lasts for ever. Xbox 360 is no different from the HTPC.

The 360 HDDVD player has PC drivers, and IIRC can even be removed from the housing and installed internally in a PC.

I just bought it tonight and WOW! I was going to wait until MS fixed the audio problem but I had a weak moment at Wal-Mart. The audio is not unbearable but it is definitely flat during explosions and such. Well worth the $200. I can now enjoy my Sammy HL-S5087W like never before :)

What I am concerned with is if playing a movie on the HD DVD player works the 360 itself just as hard as Playing "Gears Of War" would this put undue strain on the 360 itself and therefore shorten its lifespan? Heard that playing an HD Movie is compared to playing "Gears Of War".. Figured at least with the addon I will nt be putting the 360's DVD through double duty playing games and movies..

I grappled with this as well, but ultimately decided to buy the add-on.

Firstly, it only costs $200 (or less) so it's practically disposable. :) Second, I have an extended warranty on my 360 (and you should, too). Third, it's a separate drive so it's not wearing on the 360 in any meaningful way (moving parts). Finally, I treat my equipment well anyway (keep it clean, well ventilated [including keeping power bricks off the carpet], give it a rest every several hours). So I went for it.

I've checked the units (both add-on and console) for heat after movie watching and both have been cool to the touch.

Bottom line, I'm not worried, which says something because I typically do labor over these things. And yeah, I'm enjoying heck out of it. Great purchase. ;)