I'm not sure if the KK release date is relevant. Look at the PS3. They are going to bundle Talledega Nights which is supposed to have a street date about one month after the PS3 release.

I actually put a preorder in through **************** (the company you represent). I hope you are not such a stickler for irrelevant rules that I will get my XBOX 360 HD DVD a full week later than if I had ordered through Amazon.

Robert has said that the extra week will give them time to double-box the shipments but he also said that they were "told" not to ship them until the 14th. In another thread, however, he also said he WOULD ship them on the 7th if Amazon does so that seems fair.

Hmmm... The EB Games website says Nov. 7 for the shipping date.

FWIW, your Nov. 14 date makes sense in that Nov. 14 is the release date for King Kong.

P.S. Is GameStop the same company? Their websites look almost identical. GameStop also says Nov. 7.
Yes, GameStop purchased EBGames early/middle of last year. Quite unfortunate IMO.

I'm hoping the Nov. 7 date holds up because I already have some HD-DVDs on the way.

I put down $25 for the HD-drive yesterday at a GameStop in Greenville SC. Their computer stated that it would be in on Nov. 8th.
:)

The HD-DVD add on is already at #22 on the Amazon top seller list for computer/video games.

^^ It varies between #1 and #2 of my web only sales (not including our B&M sales). The other product selling equally as strong on my web is the HD-A2.

-Robert

So can we verify...

There is a VGA out on the system...

And using a VGA to DVI will give us an awesome pic ? If so where is it best to get the cable ?

It groups CSS and AACS in there. It also says DVD's AND HD DVD can get around it by using VGA, which "which is not subject to the same copyright restrictions.". ICT is part of AACS, which is being discussed here.

You can easily see the rules for yourself by getting the interim agreement (in pdf) from AACS website.

AACS Authorized Analog Outputs
Computer Monitor Outputs:VGA, SVGA (800X600 and greater), XGA
(1024X768), SXGA, and UXGA or similar
computer video outputs, that are widely
implemented as of June 1, 2004.

Associated Restrictions and Obligations
Subject to the sunset requirements set forth in
Sections 1.7.1 and 1.7.3 of Part 2 of these
Compliance Rules, a Licensed Product that is
incorporated into a computer product may
pass Decrypted AACS Content for which the
Digital Only Token was not set to these
outputs. If the Image Constraint Token is set
for such content, it must be passed as a
Constrained Image.

The Xbox 360 has a VGA cable, these is no outputs in the traditional sense, the 360 has it's own single output connection but you buy diffferent Xbox 360 specific cables, like the VGA cable. The HD-DVD add on is just a drive, the 360 handles all the decoding and video output through the normal 360 video and audio output. Seeing as the 360 gets by all ICT restrictions via the VGA cable it's a no brainer to pick one up.

The HD-DVD add on is already at #22 on the Amazon top seller list for computer/video games.It just moved up to 18 :) This might be trouble for Blu-Ray because this means a direct conversion of gamer to movie watcher where buying a PS3 is speculating if a gamer will buy a Blu-ray movie.

The Xbox 360 has a VGA cable, these is no outputs in the traditional sense, the 360 has it's own single output connection but you buy diffferent Xbox 360 specific cables, like the VGA cable. The HD-DVD add on is just a drive, the 360 handles all the decoding and video output through the normal 360 video and audio output. Seeing as the 360 gets by all ICT restrictions via the VGA cable it's a no brainer to pick one up.


The VGA connection is not a no brainer should you have a display which will not properly fill the screen using this connection. Correct me if I am wrong but for owners of the Sony A2000 series, these sets will not display correctly using a VGA cable from another source. Can someone with an A2000 let me know what they have found out regarding this issue. Also...can someone tell me if you did use the VGA cable from the Xbox 360...would this connect to the RGB input on the Sony? :cool:

It just moved up to 20 :) This might be trouble for Blu-Ray because this means a direct conversion of gamer to movie watcher where buying a PS3 is speculating if a gamer will buy a Blu-ray movie.

And it's strongly in the #1 sales position on my site. Sales of the Xbox 360 HD DVD adaptor are very impressive.

-Robert

And it's strongly in the #1 sales position on my site. Sales of the Xbox 360 HD DVD adaptor are very impressive.

-Robert

Impressive but not surprising. People such as myself who have held out on buying a 360 up to this point are hoping this HD-DVD add-on will be a player others can say handles software as well as the Toshiba in relation to playing high definition discs. I could care less about upconversion as I have an upconverting player already. If Microsoft supplies the market with an add-on which can be compared in quality to that of the Toshiba players, not only have they increased the HD-DVD player base but also the people out there who will be buying an Xbox 360 to go along with their HD-DVD add-on. Should this player receive poor reviews or even so-so reviews, I will be listing it on ebay and looking to a dedicated HD-DVD player. I will also most likely hold off on buying the 360 until a price drop occurs. Should the player receive a thumbs-up, Microsoft can count me in as a new Xbox 360 owner. :cool:

Barney, I believe you will not be disappointed, in fact, I think you will be very impressed with the PQ and AQ as well as the hardware.

Let me know if I can do anything to ensure your 100% satisfaction.

-Robert

I just have to say that using the VGA cable instead of component might not be that good, I bought the VGA cable to play highdef on my PC monitor, but when watching DVD movies it studders so much its not watchable! and the blacks are clearly worse then component.
so why would HD-DVD do any better through the same cable?
but I guess my problems got more to do with software maybe, since playing Highdef doesnt show any problems.

Barney, I believe you will not be disappointed, in fact, I think you will be very impressed with the PQ and AQ as well as the hardware.

Let me know if I can do anything to ensure your 100% satisfaction.

-Robert


Definitely will Robert!!!! I hope it proves to be a nice player. By the way...my name is Doug. The name below is a quote from The Andy Griffith Show. :p ;)
Thanks for the support you provide here on the forum!!!! It is greatly appreciated. I ordered my Xbox add-on through your store. :)

I just have to say that using the VGA cable instead of component might not be that good, I bought the VGA cable to play highdef on my PC monitor, but when watching DVD movies it studders so much its not watchable! and the blacks are clearly worse then component.
so why would HD-DVD do any better through the same cable?
but I guess my problems got more to do with software maybe, since playing Highdef doesnt show any problems.

I will be using the component connection for HD movies. :cool:

"The VGA connection is not a no brainer should you have a display which will not properly fill the screen using this connection."


The cable is 30$, keep your receipt and return it if it does not work for your particular TV.

But with VGA on the 360 you get 1080P, in games, DVD's, HD-DVD.
This is a no brainer.

I'm currently using the VGA cables for games and upscaled DVD's. I have the 360 set to 1280X720 feeding into a Westinghouse 42 inch native 1080P LCD. I get no stutters or issues with upscaled DVD's and they look great and things should improve a lot for me with the fall update when I can go 1080P on all content.

And it's strongly in the #1 sales position on my site. Sales of the Xbox 360 HD DVD adaptor are very impressive.

-Robert It has moved to #18 and impressive is an under statement. This is the first time we can see what the consumer is going to do when they are buying a gaming device. There is no other reason to by the add-on but to watch HD-DVDs and with the 360's built in 4mil plus users; this gives the studios more reason to let the consumer decide what format should prevail. I would almost bet that the studios in the Blu-Ray only camp will make announcement about supporting HD-DVD by January 2007.

http://www.eugbanana.com/files/Pix/Xbox360HDDVDAmazon18.jpg

I will be using the component connection for HD movies. :cool:
Me too, I don't have a VGA input on my TV.

I have a setup capable of full analogue 5.1 channels.

I must say I hate using that. It's just a pain.

Now, if I (an AVS Forum HT geek) hate dealing with 6 analogue channels, you can just imagine what J6P thinks.

How hard is it to hook up analog cables and click one botton on the remote? If MS cripples the HD audio output by not offering HD decoded analog audio output I will wait for a Universal player with it.

How hard is it to hook up analog cables and click one botton on the remote? If MS cripples the HD audio output by not offering HD decoded analog audio output I will wait for a Universal player with it.
Not very hard, but the bottom line is that it's only the small minority of J6Packers that actually does it.

Go ask your non-geek friends what HD video is.
Then ask your non-geek friends what TrueHD audio is.

Not very hard, but the bottom line is that it's only the small minority of J6Packers that actually does it.

Go ask your non-geek friends what HD video is.
Then ask your non-geek friends what TrueHD audio is.
I can go without the TrueHD audio, and settle for DD+! My speakers suck anyway, HTIB! My television is the strongest piece of my HT, HD-DVD makes it shine :D . Now November needs to come already!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well let me speak on behalf of A2000 owners in saying we definitely are getting hosed on the VGA deal. The input on the TV only allows 1280x720 max. So when you have the 360 hooked up through the VGA cable you are presented with an image that is surrounded in around a 4 inch black box on all sides. If you want to support the full 1920x1080 through VGA you have to buy the new XBR2 series tvs that are coming out. All of these leads me to begging MS to release a magical HDMI cable for the 360, in doing so I would purchase this add on in a flash. However cause of the dilemma I am really leaning towards an A2 myself...

Up to #14...... I predict the top 5 before release date. :D

Well let me speak on behalf of A2000 owners in saying we definitely are getting hosed on the VGA deal. The input on the TV only allows 1280x720 max. So when you have the 360 hooked up through the VGA cable you are presented with an image that is surrounded in around a 4 inch black box on all sides. If you want to support the full 1920x1080 through VGA you have to buy the new XBR2 series tvs that are coming out. All of these leads me to begging MS to release a magical HDMI cable for the 360, in doing so I would purchase this add on in a flash. However cause of the dilemma I am really leaning towards an A2 myself...


I own a 60A2000 and thought I had read about this problem.

I preordered the add-on due to my want for the Xbox 360 and games. If the add-on is no good, the 360 purchase will have to wait as I will also purchase a stand-alone player. As far as the connections go, I am only interested in the ability to play HD movies. I have a good upconverting player already so the component connection would be my preferred connection with this add-on. :cool:

I only have component and DVI inputs on my tv. I wouldn't mind getting upconversion of standard def content with the addon using the vga cable.

Can anyone recommend a good VGA->DVI adapter that won't compromise picture quality?

Thanks.

Used one already available? How is this possible:

Used 360 HD DVD Player (http://www.ebgames.com/product.asp?product_id=802558)


Maybe gone if somebody purchases it....

I just have to say that using the VGA cable instead of component might not be that good, I bought the VGA cable to play highdef on my PC monitor, but when watching DVD movies it studders so much its not watchable! and the blacks are clearly worse then component.
so why would HD-DVD do any better through the same cable?
but I guess my problems got more to do with software maybe, since playing Highdef doesnt show any problems.

I have heard exactly the opposite in many threads, so I guess it is different depending on setup and display type. :confused:

Number 1! :cool:

http://www.eugbanana.com/files/Pix/Xbox360HDDVDAmazon1-500.jpg

Unfortunately I will be cancelling my pre-order due to lack of Dolby True HD support. I would much rather have the 360 drive but I can't see spending the money then later wishing I had Dolby True HD and that I'm not getting all I can out of HD-DVD.

That didn't take long...#1

Unfortunately I will be cancelling my pre-order due to lack of Dolby True HD support. I would much rather have the 360 drive but I can't see spending the money then later wishing I had Dolby True HD and that I'm not getting all I can out of HD-DVD.
Sorry to hear this. :eek:
I plan on using this add-on until the price of the stand alone players drop to $199. Then the stand alone player can be used in my family room, and the 360 in my gameroom.

Why not do the same? Should take about a year and a half or so! It'll go by quick!
This is if you already own a 360, if you're buying both now then scratch what I said.

EDIT: BOTH meaning the 360 system and the add-on!

Wow.... HD-DVD Movie sales will spike like crazy during the holidays. This is like a loaded nail-gun to the BD Coffin.

Sorry to hear this. :eek:
I plan on using this add-on until the price of the stand alone players drop to $199. Then the stand alone player can be used in my family room, and the 360 in my gameroom.

Why not do the same? Should take about a year and a half or so! It'll go by quick!
This is if you already own a 360, if you're buying both now then scratch what I said.

EDIT: BOTH meaning the 360 system and the add-on!

I would but some of the HD-A1 are going for as low as 240.00 on ebay so I would Imagine 200.00 is soon to come especcialy with A2's hitting the shelves.

The HD DVD addon is an absolute great buy if you have the XBOX 360.

I would but some of the HD-A1 are going for as low as 240.00 on ebay so I would Imagine 200.00 is soon to come especcialy with A2's hitting the shelves.
Read the fine print on the auctions.

Is it a refurb? Is being sold for parts? You never know what your getting. Either way I'm glad to see you choosing HD-DVD over Blu you know who.

Sorry to hear this. :eek:
I plan on using this add-on until the price of the stand alone players drop to $199. Then the stand alone player can be used in my family room, and the 360 in my gameroom.

Why not do the same? Should take about a year and a half or so! It'll go by quick!
This is if you already own a 360, if you're buying both now then scratch what I said.

EDIT: BOTH meaning the 360 system and the add-on!

Good plan. Heck we are talking about $200 including a HD movie and remote (if you already own a 360) - not sure I would purchase a 360 just to purchase the HD DVD drive! I'm sure I will purchase another HD DVD unit (with all the glorious/improved audio) within the next year or so, but this device is so inexpensive, I'm not even getting any spousal feedback... :D

but this device is so inexpensive, I'm not even getting any spousal feedback... :D
Same here :D None of you know my wife do you? Don't tell tell her if you do!

The VGA connection is not a no brainer should you have a display which will not properly fill the screen using this connection. Correct me if I am wrong but for owners of the Sony A2000 series, these sets will not display correctly using a VGA cable from another source. Can someone with an A2000 let me know what they have found out regarding this issue. Also...can someone tell me if you did use the VGA cable from the Xbox 360...would this connect to the RGB input on the Sony? :cool:

The A2000 only does 720 over VGA. I learned this the hard way with my new XBOX 360, which I bought after hearing the HD-DVD excitement. I'm bummed about the VGA situation, but the XBOX 360 is awesome on its own enough that I'm glad I got it.

From my understanding, from what I've learned lurking here, the difference between 1080i and 1080p for film sources is not important... Film is 24 frames / second, so in essence all the information in those frames can fit in a 1080i signal broadcast at 60 frames / second ... the process to take the signal and convert it is called reverse telecine, if I'm not mistaken.

The problem for A2000 owners is that the TV apparently does not do reverse telecine properly. How big of an issue this is is debatable. My Denon 2910 upscaling DVD player outputs at 1080i, and I think it looks great on the TV. How much better would it look if the TV passed the reviewer's reverse telecine test? I don't know.

I think the HD-DVD ad-on will look great. I guess we'll know next month...

Two more weeks............

More than any other reason...spousal approval...is the reason I don't also buy a BD player or a PS3. I think more J6P run into this situation than the BD crowd thinks. What was the study? Something like 80% of electronics purchases are decided upon some way buy a woman, be it the actual purchase or giving permission to a family member.

I really don't think that the advantage of a BD player is worth $800-$1500 to the average person. But already owning a 360, $200 is more than exceptable to my wife for HD.

We all know the reason HD DVD is doing so well is that it's not much more of a stretch than a good upscaling player...in addition to great performance.

I have heard exactly the opposite in many threads, so I guess it is different depending on setup and display type. :confused:

really strange! well then it has to be the 360 since its the same on both my monitor and my projector.
well we will se, but I have to say that having 1080p does probably more bad things then good ones, like lower the frame rate, and since the games aint got such highframe rates as it is, its not looking good. I hope they stick with 720p as native resolution for the games.
but for HD-DVD its great....as soon as I have a 1080p projector or TV ( that might take a while though ).

well I just cant wait any longer for this addon I want it NOW :-)

Unfortunately I will be cancelling my pre-order due to lack of Dolby True HD support. I would much rather have the 360 drive but I can't see spending the money then later wishing I had Dolby True HD and that I'm not getting all I can out of HD-DVD.
The HD DVD option for 360 will decode Dolby TrueHD in 5.1. It will however, re-encode it back to DD on the way out on the optical output. This should result in improved audio quality as the source is "uncompressed" in this case and only goes through one level of compression.

If you need the full fidelity, then yes, you should invest in a stand-alone HD DVD player, assuming your receiver had good multi-channel analog input or HDMI audio. Otherwise, you won't gain anything above the Xbox solution.

The HD DVD option for 360 will decode Dolby TrueHD in 5.1. It will however, re-encode it back to DD on the way out on the optical output. This should result in improved audio quality as the source is "uncompressed" in this case and only goes through one level of compression.

If you need the full fidelity, then yes, you should invest in a stand-alone HD DVD player, assuming your receiver had good multi-channel analog input or HDMI audio. Otherwise, you won't gain anything above the Xbox solution.
Thanks.....you just made my day!

The HD DVD option for 360 will decode Dolby TrueHD in 5.1. It will however, re-encode it back to DD on the way out on the optical output. This should result in improved audio quality as the source is "uncompressed" in this case and only goes through one level of compression.

If you need the full fidelity, then yes, you should invest in a stand-alone HD DVD player, assuming your receiver had good multi-channel analog input or HDMI audio. Otherwise, you won't gain anything above the Xbox solution.

amirm, I remember you mentioned in the insiders thread that a re-encode to DTS at 1.5mbs would be considered if there was enough interest. Its obvious that the lack of TrueHD will (has) sway(ed) some and seeing as the 360 addon looks to be quite popular (and not just with AVS'ers) would this be an option MS would consider more favourably? A high quality DTS stream would be a strong selling point as most people will likely have DTS capable receivers.

Thanks :)

Anyone else who would like to see such an option, chime in. I think MS has proven that they will listen to their user base so speak up!

amirm, I remember you mentioned in the insiders thread that a re-encode to DTS at 1.5mbs would be considered if there was enough interest. Its obvious that the lack of TrueHD will (has) sway(ed) some and seeing as the 360 addon looks to be quite popular (and not just with AVS'ers) would this be an option MS would consider more favourably? A high quality DTS stream would be a strong selling point as most people will likely have DTS capable receivers.

Thanks :)

Anyone else who would like to see such an option, chime in. I think MS has proven that they will listen to their user base so speak up!

Absolutely, a question I also asked in in the 'insiders' thread. The DD 5.1 I'm sure will sound just dandy but a DTS option would really be a nice addition to this great value.

amirm, I remember you mentioned in the insiders thread that a re-encode to DTS at 1.5mbs would be considered if there was enough interest. Its obvious that the lack of TrueHD will (has) sway(ed) some and seeing as the 360 addon looks to be quite popular (and not just with AVS'ers) would this be an option MS would consider more favourably? A high quality DTS stream would be a strong selling point as most people will likely have DTS capable receivers.

Thanks :)

Anyone else who would like to see such an option, chime in. I think MS has proven that they will listen to their user base so speak up!

I've pre-ordered the 360 add-on and I'd also be interested in being able to re-encode to 1.5 mbps DTS instead of just 640 kbps DD.

I've pre-ordered the 360 add-on and I'd also be interested in being able to re-encode to 1.5 mbps DTS instead of just 640 kbps DD.
The beauty of the 360 being an entirely software based solution is that these features can be enabled in future updates if the need is there. It's nice to buy a product that gets better with age, like a good wine, instead of getting worse, like a car.

For me, the loading time alone would sell me. It's an absolute pleasure when you're dealing with 20-30 discs in a day (Try wasting almost an hour just watching "loading..." on the toshiba a couple of times, and you'll know what I mean :))

Does anyone know of a U.S store that will ship one of these babies to Australia??

I'm wondering if this player will be able to play user authored hd dvds as well. Anyone know?

I'm wondering if this player will be able to play user authored hd dvds as well. Anyone know?


Considering how well the HD DVD players do this, I hope Amir can officially confirm it. What is even more important is if can play the HD content on red laser dvd's the way the Toshiba has been able to do this.

BD ONLY supports AVCHD encoded Red laser DVD's (based on Sony's low end HD camcorders)

Now if we can just convince Amir to release a HD VC1 encoder for the NLE systems we will have a great solution for user created HD DVD's either on HD media or HD on Red Laser media

Ithink this area is going to become a lot more important in the short term for the early adopters

John

I'm sure this has been covered a million times, but I have to ask.

Will the 360 HD-DVD output 720P over component when playing HD-DVDs? I have a 720P PJ and want to avoid extra conversions.

^^ Theoretically yes, but in practice most systems render a better image if you set your HD DVD player for 1080i But then again I always suggest for you to try both resolution settings in your system and let us know what you experience.

-Robert

As of right now (12:00 AM EST Oct. 25), the Xbox 360 HD DVD add-on is still number 1.
The Xbox 360 with 20 GB drive is #6.
The Xbox 360 controller is #9.

Not bad for Microsoft, and not bad for HD DVD.


^^ Theoretically yes, but in practice most systems render a better image if you set your HD DVD player for 1080i But then again I always suggest for you to try both resolution settings in your system and let us know what you experience.

-Robert
Interestingly, my secondary TV (a Dell 26" LCD) does much better with 720p than it does with 1080i (over DVI). Both look fine with TV content, but my SA 3250 cable box's menu flickers on 1080i on that TV.

On my primary TV, there is no flicker on 1080i, which is fortunate considering there is no 720p support on that TV at all.

amirm, I remember you mentioned in the insiders thread that a re-encode to DTS at 1.5mbs would be considered if there was enough interest. Its obvious that the lack of TrueHD will (has) sway(ed) some and seeing as the 360 addon looks to be quite popular (and not just with AVS'ers) would this be an option MS would consider more favourably? A high quality DTS stream would be a strong selling point as most people will likely have DTS capable receivers.

Thanks :)

Anyone else who would like to see such an option, chime in. I think MS has proven that they will listen to their user base so speak up!
Sure, we definitely will consider this.

I'm wondering if this player will be able to play user authored hd dvds as well. Anyone know?
Sure. If they are compatible with the spec, we will play it. We have our own test discs that we have created and they play just fine.

Hi Amir, thanks for answering all those questions. I have one to add:

This is probably not very important for most HDTV setups nowadays, but will the Xbox 360 with HD DVD system be updated to allow the unit to compensate for TVs that lock into widescreen mode with HD or progressive content? Older sets often have this limitation, which isn't a concern for 16:9 movie content, but is a significant issue for 4:3 extras or movies (like perhaps Casablanca).

Hi Amir, thanks for answering all those questions. I have one to add:

This is probably not very important for most HDTV setups nowadays, but will the Xbox 360 with HD DVD system be updated to allow the unit to compensate for TVs that lock into widescreen mode with HD or progressive content? Older sets often have this limitation, which isn't a concern for 16:9 movie content, but is a significant issue for 4:3 extras or movies (like perhaps Casablanca).
Can you explain some more? Are you saying that your display always stretches the image and that you like to see the Xbox shrink the image first, so that the overall aspect ratio is still correct? (even though the image would be butchered due to two conversions :))

Can you explain some more? Are you saying that your display always stretches the image and that you like to see the Xbox shrink the image first, so that the overall aspect ratio is still correct? (even though the image would be butchered due to two conversions :))
Yes indeed. It'd be nice to have the Xbox 360 have the option to shrink the 4:3 image first (with black bars on the sides), so that the overall aspect ratio is correct once the TV stretches it.

I realize this is a limitation of the TV, but nonetheless it exists. For progressive scan DVD playback, I had to specifically buy a 480p player that could compensate for this TV limitation for 4:3 material. My Panasonic RP91 DVD player has this feature, and I still use it today for this reason.

I don't know how many HDTVs are out there in active use that still have this limitation, but back in 2001-2002 it wasn't uncommon. (My primary HDTV is from that era.)

Hi Amir, wondering if you could answer a question for me.

Currently the VGA cable supports 1360x768. My Hitachi 37" LCD is native 1366x768 and doesn't support 1360x768 over VGA, therefore it does some strange scaling. For best results I run at 1280x768 but end up with vertical black bars on either side of the screen. This doesn't bother me for games but will when I grab a HD-DVD add-on (whenever they come out in Australia!).

Will the fall update include support for 1366x768?

Cheers,
tofo

Sure. If they are compatible with the spec, we will play it. We have our own test discs that we have created and they play just fine.


Awesome. Thanks, for the quick reply!

#1 at Amazon really is amazing, but I wonder how many actual units this equates to.... that could mean the difference between mild or massive success. If the HD DVD drive sells a few hundred thousands units, that would be a MASSIVE shot in the arm for HD-DVD.

amirm, I remember you mentioned in the insiders thread that a re-encode to DTS at 1.5mbs would be considered if there was enough interest. Its obvious that the lack of TrueHD will (has) sway(ed) some and seeing as the 360 addon looks to be quite popular (and not just with AVS'ers) would this be an option MS would consider more favourably? A high quality DTS stream would be a strong selling point as most people will likely have DTS capable receivers.

Thanks :)

Anyone else who would like to see such an option, chime in. I think MS has proven that they will listen to their user base so speak up!

Yo, I'm a DTS fan-boy. Or was, back when there was a huge difference. Modern DD encodes have improved hugely, but back 5 or so years ago, even on my 4.1 Klipsch Pro Media surround kit DTS was clearly better, noticbly so. Granted, everything that comes out of my 360 that it has to encode sounds beautiful (game audio etc) so it's not the end of the world.

Amir/anyoneelseatMSetc:
Assuming that a 1.5mbit DTS realtimer encoder could achieve closer to the source reproduction than a 640kbit DD, I would say it's worth it. Not sure if the bitrate usage would be warrented, but assuming its possible perhaps even do 96/24 optionally? My receiver supports it but I've never had a single source that output it, so I don't know if you can tell if either 96khz or 24bit is going to make a huge difference..

And on another variation: If I had a receiver that did WMA Pro (assuming its more efficient / higher quality than DD) and I had that selected in the Dashboard for audio output (vs DD) would the movies be encoded to WMA Pro instead? My current Pioneer receiver doesn't do it, but the newer ones do support WMA Pro so that could be another option..

Totally different subject: Is there any chance for multiple-of-24 refresh rate support for movie playback? Firstly, can the video hardware support say 72hz at HD resolutions? Secondly, whats the chance, if the first is true, it'll ever make it into a dashboard update as an advanced option for using the VGA pack? I don't expect to be able to set crazy refresh rates for games, just for movies. This would benefit the CRT monitor and projection crowd, and possibly some digital flat screen / projector people as well depending on what their displays can handle.

and finally: I remember hearing something to the effect that the remote included with the drive uses wireless (like the gamepads). If so, can I program the IR codes from the mini-remote that was in the launch packages into my Pronto and have those IR codes work the HD-DVD stuffs? If that won't work, any chance we can get IR equivalent codes for all RF codes added to the system at some point and an official Pronto or such file released so we can program our programmables?

My drive is pre-ordered at the local Gamestop and I've already picked up Tokyo Drift (which looks amazing upscaled by the 360 already - yay combos!), so you don't need to convince me of anything. :)

Will the fall update include support for 1366x768?


My plasma refuses to accept 1360X768 forcing me to display at 1280X720P if I use VGA, I too would really like ot hear about some 1366 support.

Sure, we definitely will consider this.


I hope you do. While I don't have a reciever that could decode the new audio codecs, I'd appreciate when are converted to something else we could squeeze as much quality out as possible.

I have a question myself. Is there going to be a separate setting for video output for the HD-DVDs. This is important as I have a XBR1, so I can't take 1080p into the tv. I run my games at 720p, since I so no reason to scale them to 1080, interlace them and lose any temporal resolution, send to the tv which would then deinterlace.

I would like to set the HD-DVD's to 1080i so as not to lose any quality. I don't want to have to manually switch back in forth. This is very important to me.

So... any word on HDMI? :) I really want to stop using component for everything. It would make switching inputs easier and get rid of any extra D/A A/D conversion. Plus it would be nice to scale old dvds on the player.

Sure, we definitely will consider this.

Thanks, I can almost feel the bass "thrumm" when the Tumbler kicks in its afterburners and soars over the rooftops.......:)

So much discussion. . . but what is the best way to connect this bad boy ?

So much discussion. . . but what is the best way to connect this bad boy ?
:confused: To an Xbox 360?

I didn't see this anywhere, is the 360 HD DVD player going to have any sort of aspect ratio control? Specifically, will it perform a Vertical Stretch (for us CIH-rs)?

Will the included remote or the Addon have the capability to switch the resolution? Like a button on the remote for resolution? Can a harmony be set to switch resolution on the Addon?

I will be cancelling my pre-order due to lack of Dolby True HD support. I would much rather have the 360 drive but I can't see spending the money then later wishing I had Dolby True HD and that I'm not getting all I can out of HD-DVD.

Like slaxer07, I had been leaning towards getting the 360 add-on, but was similarly turned off by the lack of an HDMI and multi-channel analog output. However, I've now decided in favor of the add-on because of the factors laid out by amirm:

The HD DVD option for 360 will decode Dolby TrueHD in 5.1. It will however, re-encode it back to DD on the way out on the optical output. This should result in improved audio quality as the source is "uncompressed" in this case and only goes through one level of compression.

If you need the full fidelity, then yes, you should invest in a stand-alone HD DVD player, assuming your receiver had good multi-channel analog input or HDMI audio. Otherwise, you won't gain anything above the Xbox solution.

My receiver DOES have a good multi-channel analog input, but it does not have an HDMI input. So after finding out in another AVS thread that the A2 does not have a multi-channel analog out, I ruled out the A2. So that left me to choose from the XA2 (which I decided against because of its $1,000 price tag), the A1 (which I decided against because of its load time and remote lag), and the add-on -- I'm going with the add-on.

Like slaxer07, I had been leaning towards getting the 360 add-on, but was similarly turned off by the lack of an HDMI and multi-channel analog output. However, I've now decided in favor of the add-on because of the factors laid out by amirm:



My receiver DOES have a good multi-channel analog input, but it does not have an HDMI input. So after finding out in another AVS thread that the A2 does not have a multi-channel analog out, I ruled out the A2. So that left me to choose from the XA2 (which I decided against because of its $1,000 price tag), the A1 (which I decided against because of its load time and remote lag), and the add-on -- I'm going with the add-on.

Yeah the A1 and XA1 are my only options, the loading times are not a issue for me.
I believe it was this thread that i read loading was only increased by 20 sec but I'm not sure.

I'm still battling the decision out in my head, I haven't cancelled yet. I have almost overcome the audio issue but I would really like only 1 player and being my vga input does not accept 1920x1080 I would have to hook up via component losing upconversion of DVD's.

Like slaxer07, I had been leaning towards getting the 360 add-on, but was similarly turned off by the lack of an HDMI and multi-channel analog output. However, I've now decided in favor of the add-on because of the factors laid out by amirm:



My receiver DOES have a good multi-channel analog input, but it does not have an HDMI input. So after finding out in another AVS thread that the A2 does not have a multi-channel analog out, I ruled out the A2. So that left me to choose from the XA2 (which I decided against because of its $1,000 price tag), the A1 (which I decided against because of its load time and remote lag), and the add-on -- I'm going with the add-on.
Yep. It's hard to argue with that price tag, esp. in Canada, at 199.99 C$. The remote goes for $40, and King Kong goes for $30, which effectively makes the drive only C$130.

Mind you, I don't need the remote, and I wasn't planning on buying King Kong, so maybe not. ;)

Yeah the A1 and XA1 are my only options

Just curious -- Why aren't you considering the XA2 since it also has a multi-channel analog out.

I would have to hook up via component losing upconversion of DVD's.

Yup. Me too. That's the thing that bothers me the most: Not being able to uupconvert standard DVDs.

Hmmm... Now I'm thinking about the A2 again -- Even though I wouldn't get Dolby TrueHD out of it (at least not with my current receiver), I would get upconversion.

After already letting my wife know there is a 200.00 option there is no way I'm going to be able to get a 1000 dollar player.

Will this add on be able to upconvert PAL dvds?

I'm still battling the decision out in my head, I haven't cancelled yet. I have almost overcome the audio issue but I would really like only 1 player and being my vga input does not accept 1920x1080 I would have to hook up via component losing upconversion of DVD's.


Im was thinking this same thing over in my head as well. Almost canceled my pre order. I dont have a VGA input and really wanted the upconverting benefits.

Spent this weekend checking out upconverting players in action and I wasnt that impressed. They look better, but it wasnt like a must have night and day difference over regular 480p IMO. And I know once I get used to HDDVD's anything less is gonna look like crap. Even upconverted dvd's.


I decided to go with the add on. The deal is just too sweet to pass on. Its not even $200 once you factor in the free movie. I know I will regret it if I pass this deal up.

Alright, let me get this straight: I only have DVI input on my TV (Mits 65831), but I have my PC hooked up to it, so I'm told that to connect the HD-DVD add-on I can use component, yet that won't allow for upconversion of reg. DVDs???

Can someone spell out what options I have to get full functionality of the add-on? :confused:

I'm pretty sure the 360 can already upconvert PAL DVDs on the VGA if either you're in the right PAL region, or they are region free. This won't require the HD-DVD drive for mere DVDs..

I'm pretty sure the 360 can already upconvert PAL DVDs on the VGA if either you're in the right PAL region, or they are region free. This won't require the HD-DVD drive for mere DVDs..

But will it look better on the HD DVD drive?

But will it look better on the HD DVD drive?

The Upconverting of normal DVD's has nothing to do with the HD-DVD drive. The increased upconverting capability will be in the Fall update of the console software - It will not require the HD-DVD addon, it will be available to everyone.

The only thing added via the HD-DVD drive specifically, is playback of HD-DVD movies.

The Upconverting of normal DVD's has nothing to do with the HD-DVD drive. The increased upconverting capability will be in the Fall update of the console software - It will not require the HD-DVD addon, it will be available to everyone.

The only thing added via the HD-DVD drive specifically, is playback of HD-DVD movies.

Yeah as far as upconverting DVD's it will upconvert to 720p already over the VGA output, and it looks really good.

^^^ahhh, so the add-on isn't used for standard DVDs like a normal HD-DVD player that upconverts? You put them in the 360 instead? So..if my 360 is connected via component, upconversion isn't doable/noticeable??

^^^ahhh, so the add-on isn't used for standard DVDs like a normal HD-DVD player that upconverts? You put them in the 360 instead?
You CAN use the HD DVD add-on player (with the Xbox 360) to upconvert DVDs (over VGA), but you don't NEED to, cuz the Xbox 360 already has a DVD player.

^^^ahhh, so the add-on isn't used for standard DVDs like a normal HD-DVD player that upconverts? You put them in the 360 instead? So..if my 360 is connected via component, upconversion isn't doable/noticeable??

No, the addon plays both SD and HD-DVD but will only upconvert SD over a VGA connection.

^^^ahhh, so the add-on isn't used for standard DVDs like a normal HD-DVD player that upconverts? You put them in the 360 instead? So..if my 360 is connected via component, upconversion isn't doable/noticeable??

Correct! as of last spring update.

A little bit off topic. How well does the 360 upconvert pal dvds? Does it play them flawless? Or does it have skips and jerks occasionally? Thanks

I just found this thread, Bottom line...I just bought a Sammy 5087 1080p tv. I want to the reap the benifets of it for as cheap as possible.

I have an Xbox 360
When is this so called hd-dvd addon being released?
How much in the USA?
Will it do 1080p?

And if not what is the cheapest 1080p player out there right now

I just found this thread, Bottom line...I just bought a Sammy 5087 1080p tv. I want to the reap the benifets of it for as cheap as possible.

I have an Xbox 360
When is this so called hd-dvd addon being released?
How much in the USA?
Will it do 1080p?

And if not what is the cheapest 1080p player out there right now


Nov 7th

$200.00

Yes, but only over VGA. 1080i through component.

$1000

You might also want to do some reseasrch regarding 1080p vs 1080i on the HD DVD players. FOr the most part. There is no difference.

I have a 60" SXRD XBR1 and the Xbox 360 add-on on order.

Would I be best off running the HD-DVD player at 1080i since my set is supposed to de-interlace 1080i properly (and doesn't accept 1080p anyway)? I play games at 720p under the assumption that its better to just let the 360 output native and have the TV scale the input instead of having the 360 upscale and then having the TV de-interlace.

Originally Posted by slaxer07
I'm still battling the decision out in my head, I haven't cancelled yet. I have almost overcome the audio issue but I would really like only 1 player and being my vga input does not accept 1920x1080 I would have to hook up via component losing upconversion of DVD's.

You don't have to upconvert to 1920x1080. With VGA you can set it to upconvert to a number of different resolutions all higher than standard 480p on standard dvd.

Ideally you find your native resolution for your display in the list of choices and get the benefits of sd-dvd upconversion.

I have a question that I have yet to find a definite answer to, and I haven't seen it addressed in this thread.. or maybe I just missed it. :p

My trusty old Westinghouse 32" LCD has a native res of 1366x768. I use the VGA cable currently which outputs at 1360x768 (why they chose this instead of 1366, I don't know). Seems to look pretty darned good to me. My question is this: Will the HD-DVD addon scale output to my TV at 1360x768 as well, or will the 360 only feed it 720p/1080i and the TV will have to do the scaling?

You don't have to upconvert to 1920x1080. With VGA you can set it to upconvert to a number of different resolutions all higher than standard 480p on standard dvd.

Ideally you find your native resolution for your display in the list of choices and get the benefits of sd-dvd upconversion.
Correct but then to reap the benefits of HD-DVD I would have to swap to component to receive 1920x1080 because my set does not accept that resolution over VGA. That's why I commented on having 1 player for all so I can hook up via HDMI at 1920x1080.

I have a question that I have yet to find a definite answer to, and I haven't seen it addressed in this thread.. or maybe I just missed it. :p

My trusty old Westinghouse 32" LCD has a native res of 1366x768. I use the VGA cable currently which outputs at 1360x768 (why they chose this instead of 1366, I don't know). Seems to look pretty darned good to me. My question is this: Will the HD-DVD addon scale output to my TV at 1360x768 as well, or will the 360 only feed it 720p/1080i and the TV will have to do the scaling?

Somebody would surely know more about this then I but I assume that the same resolution will be available as before and the 360 would scale to whatever resolution you choose. So if the native resolution of your TV is 1366x768 I would guess 1360x768 would be you best bet.

I think a few post back people were just asking for the addition of 1366x768.

WIll i have to buy all new dvd's to get the quality of the hd-dvd players?, stupid question and the answer is yes probably, but will the older dvd's look much better with the HD-DVD player

also is there anywhere to pre-order the xbox one as of yet?

Question about the HD-DVD add on for 360:

Once you have the add on hooked up, am I correct in assuming that ALL dvd's you want to watch, HD or SD, would go into the add-on?

Will games still go into the original drive or the add-on?

Thanks!

Question about the HD-DVD add on for 360:

Once you have the add on hooked up, am I correct in assuming that ALL dvd's you want to watch, HD or SD, would go into the add-on?

Will games still go into the original drive or the add-on?

Thanks!


Future games would most likley go into the add-on since they will have double/triple the size of info as the current gen xbox 360 games have. This is why microsoft have had to add this hd-dvd addon or 2-3yrs down the line now the 360 would like the original nintendo compared to the ps3 since the PS3 games would be able to hold whatever it is blu-ray can hold(25gigs compared to 7)

Future games would most likley go into the add-on since they will have double/triple the size of info as the current gen xbox 360 games have. This is why microsoft have had to add this hd-dvd addon or 2-3yrs down the line now the 360 would like the original nintendo compared to the ps3 since the PS3 games would be able to hold whatever it is blu-ray can hold(25gigs compared to 7)
MS has specifically said that games will not be on HD DVD.

MS has specifically said that games will not be on HD DVD.


they also said specifically that there would be no HD-DVD for the xbox 360, but we know how thats turning out.

Honestly I havent follwed any of the info on the PS3, but if it does have Blu-Ray then games will be made to the fullest extent if possible (probably towards the end of the generation) to use that space up. The 360 simply will not be able to compete

they also said specifically that there would be no HD-DVD for the xbox 360, but we know how thats turning out.
IIRC, they said there there would be no integrated HD DVD drive in the Xbox 360. So far that's true. 3 years down the line that could change, but that's 3 years from now.

The HD DVD drive is all about movies, in 2006... and 2007... and 2008...


Honestly I havent follwed any of the info on the PS3, but if it does have Blu-Ray then games will be made to the fullest extent if possible (probably towards the end of the generation) to use that space up. The 360 simply will not be able to compete
The games are using a lot of cut scenes to fill up space.

they also said specifically that there would be no HD-DVD for the xbox 360, but we know how thats turning out.

Honestly I havent follwed any of the info on the PS3, but if it does have Blu-Ray then games will be made to the fullest extent if possible (probably towards the end of the generation) to use that space up. The 360 simply will not be able to compete

This thread is about the 360 addon as an HD-DVD player, not whether it will have games on HD-DVD. Lets not get side-tracked, please.

Unfortunately I will be cancelling my pre-order due to lack of Dolby True HD support. I would much rather have the 360 drive but I can't see spending the money then later wishing I had Dolby True HD and that I'm not getting all I can out of HD-DVD.

Well for what it's worth it is decoded, you just can't get it out of the player. If a tree falls in the forest, does it make a sound? ;)

You could hold out for a multi-channel AV out at some point, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

I'd suggest a A2 if you don't need analog out and have a display that does proper 1080i IVT.

Sure, we definitely will consider this.

So there are no issues in transcoding to DTS at max bitrate instead of DD? Is the license already paid for in conforming to HD DVD spec from an audio codec standpoint (and thus included in the cost of the add on)?

I for one would love to see this feature and would likely push me to purchase a unit since my wife hates the slow boot times of my A1! That's cheaper than buying a new A2 unit and a new HDMI reciever...

Hi Amir, wondering if you could answer a question for me.

Currently the VGA cable supports 1360x768. My Hitachi 37" LCD is native 1366x768 and doesn't support 1360x768 over VGA, therefore it does some strange scaling. For best results I run at 1280x768 but end up with vertical black bars on either side of the screen. This doesn't bother me for games but will when I grab a HD-DVD add-on (whenever they come out in Australia!).

Will the fall update include support for 1366x768?

Cheers,
tofo

Yes, I'd love to see this as well, it'd save me from having to monkey with image stretching to get close to a 1:1 pixel map to my FP.

they also said specifically that there would be no HD-DVD for the xbox 360, but we know how thats turning out.

Honestly I havent follwed any of the info on the PS3, but if it does have Blu-Ray then games will be made to the fullest extent if possible (probably towards the end of the generation) to use that space up. The 360 simply will not be able to compete

Just to avoid getting this thread off topic, I will be brief.

There is no need for the extra space found on HD discs for gaming. Again, there is no need. New compression technology is being tested successfully as we post here, and even using current compression technology, game developers will not 'invest' extra time and money to fill out a 25GB+ disc when there is really no need for it.

Many discussions about this subject on the web.

The fact that Microsoft is releasing the HD-DVD add-on is unrelated to future game storage. The decision -in my opinion- is more based on a par-to-par competition against the PS3 on the movie playback capabilities and the added value that this optional add-on brings to the X360.

I'm thinking of getting the drive to play HD-DVD Movies
and the unit connects to the 360 via USB can USB be anywhere fast enough
for this? my experience has been Firewire to be much faster with video over USB
won't the slower transfer rate make the movies lockup and pixelate?

USB 2.0 is 480mbs, firewire400 is 400mbs. The HD DVD transfers data around 36mbs for a 1X drive. Even a 2x drive would have no problem transferring the data. On my PC I can read and write several HD streams simultaneously on a USB 2.0 hard drive without any problems.

So there are no issues in transcoding to DTS at max bitrate instead of DD? Is the license already paid for in conforming to HD DVD spec from an audio codec standpoint (and thus included in the cost of the add on)?

I for one would love to see this feature and would likely push me to purchase a unit since my wife hates the slow boot times of my A1! That's cheaper than buying a new A2 unit and a new HDMI reciever...

I would just like to add that this would be a killer feature for me as well.

so the drive will just send bits to the 360? not do any of the processing it's self?

so the drive will just send bits to the 360? not do any of the processing it's self?

Anyway you look at it there will be bits be sent via USB. But I understand what your saying; the HD-DVD drive will read the disc and send the bitsream to the 360. It should have more than enough "horsepower" to decode/decrypt and output via your preferred method.

EDIT:

Now that I think about the 360 may not be capable of decrypting the HD-DVD AACS. It's possible there might be an additional chip in the add-on unit that will do this. It seems rather insecure though. If the is a software update for the 360 then it might be capable of doing the decryption via the software which would be my best guess.

USB 2.0 is 480mbs, firewire400 is 400mbs. The HD DVD transfers data around 36mbs for a 1X drive. Even a 2x drive would have no problem transferring the data. On my PC I can read and write several HD streams simultaneously on a USB 2.0 hard drive without any problems.
Those are the theoratical maximums. Most reviews of external usb/firewire combo harddrives that I have seen, show the firewire interface consistently faster,as it was made with video and audio in mind, ;) but either should do fine with no problems.

I would just like to add that this would be a killer feature for me as well.

yes me to, I love DTS and getting fullrate DTS would be GREAT!!!

Full rate DTS would be very welcome to me as well. I think the only real weakness of the add-on is the lack of advanced audio outs. DTS at the highest bitrate would be a good compromise in the short term.

I have ordered the HD DVD drive. I hope it all works out well and I have very pleased with my 360! Teh only two things that bother with the design of the unit is of course no HDMI and also I wish they would have put a Gigabit network on this thing. I mean I have 4 kids. Right now I have a 360 in the main media area that is netwroked with a MCE PC and another 360 upstairs in my oldest sons room that is also networked. I was planning on adding 2 more, 1 for Daughter and 1 for my other son as they are now starting to actually play games, but more for there ability to access there movies and music. Then of course the plan was one for my Bedrooom also. So that brings me to 5 right there, and I know they won't all be using the resources 7 days a week, but on weekends I defenitely see a scenario where there could be 4 to 5 units utilizing the network at one time. I guess I just can't understand why if MS made this thing to be an extender for MCE and advertise this whole networked enviroment, why they didn't try and future proof this with a Gigabit ethernet????

I guess I just can't understand why if MS made this thing to be an extender for MCE and advertise this whole networked enviroment, why they didn't try and future proof this with a Gigabit ethernet????

Because most people will use the network connection to connect to the Internet for Xbox Live, not for in house networking. Most high speed Internet providers only have 10Mb connections, so Gigabit would be over kill. I've noticed a slight slow down on my Xbox Live connection, but it was to the Internet, never with my home intranet

Deezul

Agreed, GigE is pointless for this unit.

This tread is just way to long for me to completely go through. Will this microsoft hd dvd add on have the same picture output as the toshiba units or is it possible that it will vary? I always thought that since these are digital drives that the output would be similiar.

This tread is just way to long for me to completely go through. Will this microsoft hd dvd add on have the same picture output as the toshiba units or is it possible that it will vary? I always thought that since these are digital drives that the output would be similiar.
The Xbox 360 does not support any sort of digital video output. ie. Neither DVI nor HDMI is supported.

It does support both component (up to 1080i) and VGA (up to 1080p), but those are both analogue video outputs.

This tread is just way to long for me to completely go through. Will this microsoft hd dvd add on have the same picture output as the toshiba units or is it possible that it will vary? I always thought that since these are digital drives that the output would be similiar.

It is definitely possible that they can be different, while all digital, they still can have different parts, makes, processing, etc. No one knows what the quality will be but from people that saw demos and from articles on-line that allowed reviewers to actually use the drive, they said the picture quality was stunning and that it starts faster then the original Toshiba HD-DVD player. Hope that helps.

The Xbox 360 does not support any sort of digital video output. ie. Neither DVI nor HDMI is supported.

It does support both component (up to 1080i) and VGA (up to 1080p), but those are both analogue video outputs.


I'm not to concerned about whatever it outputs. As long as the picture quality is where it should be (on par to current HD DVD players)

Because most people will use the network connection to connect to the Internet for Xbox Live, not for in house networking. Most high speed Internet providers only have 10Mb connections, so Gigabit would be over kill. I've noticed a slight slow down on my Xbox Live connection, but it was to the Internet, never with my home intranet

Deezul



I disagree and don't think it is useless. Many people who are into HTPC's are awaiting Vista and the Cable Card Support for MCE. Several people have also bought 360's to use as extenders and are currently streaming, like myself HD video from there MCE PC to there Xbox 360. When Vista comes you can have a full fledge whole house DVR system set up and MS has touted this vision and put an ethernet adapter on this thing NOT JUST FOR INTERNET, but to interface with there MCE PC's . So with HD bit rates and such and th epossibility of multiple extenders it would have been nice to have a gigabit ethernet adapter on this thing!

I disagree and don't think it is useless. Many people who are into HTPC's are awaiting Vista and the Cable Card Support for MCE. Several people have also bought 360's to use as extenders and are currently streaming, like myself HD video from there MCE PC to there Xbox 360. When Vista comes you can have a full fledge whole house DVR system set up and MS has touted this vision and put an ethernet adapter on this thing NOT JUST FOR INTERNET, but to interface with there MCE PC's . So with HD bit rates and such and th epossibility of multiple extenders it would have been nice to have a gigabit ethernet adapter on this thing!
Real life 100 Mbps Ethernet speeds are around 60 Mbps. Certainly 40 Mbps is easily achievable in most reasonable setups.

Just how high a bitrate are your HD tracks?

Anyways, it's moot, since the Xbox 360 doesn't support GigE, and likely never will. I thought my desire for a software update to add the ability for the Xbox 360 to choose aspect ratio modes for 4:3 output to HD TVs was gonna be low on the priority list. However, I think your feature request is even lower. ;)

Xbox 360 HD-DVD on Vista Confirmed (http://www.windows-now.com/blogs/robert/archive/2006/10/25/Xbox-360-HD_2D00_DVD-on-Vista-Confirmed.aspx)

I disagree and don't think it is useless. Many people who are into HTPC's are awaiting Vista and the Cable Card Support for MCE. Several people have also bought 360's to use as extenders and are currently streaming, like myself HD video from there MCE PC to there Xbox 360. When Vista comes you can have a full fledge whole house DVR system set up and MS has touted this vision and put an ethernet adapter on this thing NOT JUST FOR INTERNET, but to interface with there MCE PC's . So with HD bit rates and such and th epossibility of multiple extenders it would have been nice to have a gigabit ethernet adapter on this thing!

Duh, you don't need GigE per device. GigE at your server, GigE switch (they're getting cheap nowadays) and run those 100mbit links to all the extenders. Assuming your PC can run enough extenders to matter..

More than likely you'll be running into local system IO limitations on the server before 100mbit total is a problem, and if you can run that many streams, GigE to 100mbit as I said above will work fine.

Granted, I'd love it to have GigE, but not because I would expect it to ever be able to use it, just cause it'd be cool. I wonder what the peak thoroughput would be on the existing 100mbit at the 360 end.. the xbox did pretty decently for thoroughput but the PS2 was horridly slow, the IOP choked.

Xbox 360 HD-DVD on Vista Confirmed (http://www.windows-now.com/blogs/robert/archive/2006/10/25/Xbox-360-HD_2D00_DVD-on-Vista-Confirmed.aspx)

Don't have a 360. Not much of a gamer anymore, but I'd buy this in a sec if things get working. That's a nice price and I could somehow physically mod this thing into the old HTPC case. Haven't we already read that the new PowerDVD or WinDVD can read these things? Wonder how the Audio would work internally. Output through SPDIF or 7.1 analogs on the sound card?

In terms of working with Vista or whatever, once we know the model number of the drive, you can check to see if that model number is on this list:

http://download.nvidia.com/downloads/pvzone/Checklist_for_Building_a_HDPC.pdf

Toshiba SDH802A, TS-L802A and SD-L902A HD DVD drive – Q3
HP HD DVD drive – Q3/Q4
NEC HR-1100A HD DVD drive – Q3/Q4

From my understanding, the drive is a TSST drive... I asked Amir in the insiders' thread. Not sure if that would be the TS-... drive or if that's a whole different product.

Frankly, I'm not counting on it working. Someone said the HP drive was going to be priced at $350... so, why would they do that if a $200 drive works as well?

Chris

In terms of working with Vista or whatever, once we know the model number of the drive, you can check to see if that model number is on this list:

http://download.nvidia.com/downloads/pvzone/Checklist_for_Building_a_HDPC.pdf

Toshiba SDH802A, TS-L802A and SD-L902A HD DVD drive – Q3
HP HD DVD drive – Q3/Q4
NEC HR-1100A HD DVD drive – Q3/Q4

From my understanding, the drive is a TSST drive... I asked Amir in the insiders' thread. Not sure if that would be the TS-... drive or if that's a whole different product.

Frankly, I'm not counting on it working. Someone said the HP drive was going to be priced at $350... so, why would they do that if a $200 drive works as well?

Chris
My guess is the HP drive will come with all the necessary software, will be fully supported on Windows, and will have full phone support. Furthermore, I expect it will street for less than $300.

I've gone back and forth in my head and on this forum (See my earlier posts below) about a dozen times in the last couple of days as I try to decide between the 360 add-on and the A2 and now I'm back to being totally on the fence!

I have, however, definitively ruled out the A1, XA1, and XA2. (I had been considering them because they have 5.1 analog outputs and my receiver does not have an HDMI input. But I've decided to keep my universal player connected to my receiver's 5.1 analog input for DVD-As and SACDs.)

So, in essence, I've decided to settle for not being to have Dolby TrueHD or DD+ audio capability and am now wrestling with how important upconverting standard DVDs is to me.

Well, I suppose working through these dilemmas are part of what make home theater such a fun and rewarding hobby. I'd be happy not to have this dilemma, though, but that would require the existence of an HD DVD player with a 5.1 analog output that also plays DVD-As and SACDs!

Any advice is welcome! (My TV is a Sony KDF60XS955 LCD rear-projection TV, my receiver is a Yamaha RX-V757, and my DVD player is a Pioneer Elite 45A.)


My receiver DOES have a good multi-channel analog input, but it does not have an HDMI input. So after finding out in another AVS thread that the A2 does not have a multi-channel analog out, I ruled out the A2. So that left me to choose from the XA2 (which I decided against because of its $1,000 price tag), the A1 (which I decided against because of its load time and remote lag), and the add-on -- I'm going with the add-on.

That's the thing that bothers me the most: Not being able to uupconvert standard DVDs.

Hmmm... Now I'm thinking about the A2 again -- Even though I wouldn't get Dolby TrueHD out of it (at least not with my current receiver), I would get upconversion.

My guess is the HP drive will come with all the necessary software, will be fully supported on Windows, and will have full phone support. Furthermore, I expect it will street for less than $300.

That is all very true. I wonder when the drive will hit the streets.

Chris

Any word on 1080p 24hz output or does it convert everything to 60 HZ before outputing? This is a factor with new displays HDMI inputs. Can any of the new displays accept 1080p/24 over component?

Any word on 1080p 24hz output or does it convert everything to 60 HZ before outputing? This is a factor with new displays HDMI inputs. Can any of the new displays accept 1080p/24 over component?

for movies 1080p24 (which isn't available at this point only 1080p60) is only an option via VGA, not component.

1080p/24 output might come some day in a software update, but not at release (like the PS3 apparently).

Do they make VGA splitters? I already have my HTPC hooked up via VGA-DVI, thoughts? Would like to get 1080p, not resort to component at 1080i (although might not be noticeable).

So the xbox 360 will play PAL dvds if they are region free? Are they output at 50hz. or 60hz...?
and what is the latest on the audio? Downrezzed to Full DTS like say, the hd-a2 (non-HDMI) or less...?


:)

The HD DVD option for 360 will decode Dolby TrueHD in 5.1. It will however, re-encode it back to DD on the way out on the optical output. This should result in improved audio quality as the source is "uncompressed" in this case and only goes through one level of compression.

If you need the full fidelity, then yes, you should invest in a stand-alone HD DVD player, assuming your receiver had good multi-channel analog input or HDMI audio. Otherwise, you won't gain anything above the Xbox solution.
amirm, I remember you mentioned in the insiders thread that a re-encode to DTS at 1.5mbs would be considered if there was enough interest. Its obvious that the lack of TrueHD will (has) sway(ed) some and seeing as the 360 addon looks to be quite popular (and not just with AVS'ers) would this be an option MS would consider more favourably? A high quality DTS stream would be a strong selling point as most people will likely have DTS capable receivers.

Thanks :)

Anyone else who would like to see such an option, chime in. I think MS has proven that they will listen to their user base so speak up!
Yes, on-the-fly re-encoding to 1.5 Mbps DTS would be extremely cool.

A side question: Is there a specific chip in the machine that would do this, or would this be done on the CPU? I would have guessed the TrueHD --> DD conversion was done on a dedicated chip, but like I said, it was just an uninformed guess.

A side question: Is there a specific chip in the machine that would do this, or would this be done on the CPU? I would have guessed the TrueHD --> DD conversion was done on a dedicated chip, but like I said, it was just an uninformed guess.


Another question why does Microsoft take all the trouble to decode DTHD and re-encode into DTS? You need to pay for the royalty for DTHD and DTS encoding. You only enjoy the result of DTS which is not that better than DD.

Two uninformed guess:
1)Microsoft do so to make sure Studios will not drop DTHD because of lack of players support.


2) Microsoft will release a xbox360-HD DVD version next year with HDMI. Microsoft is a licensee of HDMI. There has to be a reason, I guess.

Another question why does Microsoft take all the trouble to decode DTHD and re-encode into DTS?

Firstly, they're not, currently it will be encoded into 640k DD, like all other audio. Amir mentioned they'd consider adding DTS encoding

You need to pay for the royalty for DTHD and DTS encoding. You only enjoy the result of DTS which is not that better than DD.

Glad somebody said it, my toung was starting to hurt :D

Another question why does Microsoft take all the trouble to decode DTHD and re-encode into DTS? You need to pay for the royalty for DTHD and DTS encoding. You only enjoy the result of DTS which is not that better than DD.

Two uninformed guess:
1)Microsoft do so to make sure Studios will not drop DTHD because of lack of players support.
We already know that the Xbox 360 will decode DTHD (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8733314&&#post8733314). However, it outputs a DD 5.1 track.

DTS 1.5 instead of DD 5.1 may be an improvement (if only because of the bitrate), but we don't know that yet.

Yes 640 Kbps DD 5.1 can be excellent, but in this situation we're talking on-the-fly encodes. Perhaps the extra bits will help.


2) Microsoft will release a xbox360-HD DVD version next year with HDMI. Microsoft is a licensee of HDMI. There has to be a reason, I guess.
HDMI would have to be on the Xbox 360. The HD DVD drive is just a drive.

What new resolutions will the VGA cable support with the new Xbox 360 software update that they are releasing for the HD-DVD drive? I know it will support 1920x1080, but will it also support other non-16:9 high resolutions like it does with the lower resolutions (1280x768)? My monitor is 1920x1200 native, so I just want to make sure that movies won't be vertically stretched on it.

HDMI would have to be on the Xbox 360. The HD DVD drive is just a drive.


That is my guess. Microsoft is a licensee of HDMI. They implement the DTHD decoding part mainly for the future xbox360-HDMI with HD DVD internal drive.

lymzy,

While that is likely true with a future HDMI edition, just for MS to have a "HD DVD" player, they need to decode TrueHD to be spec compliant.

Another question why does Microsoft take all the trouble to decode DTHD and re-encode into DTS? You need to pay for the royalty for DTHD and DTS encoding. You only enjoy the result of DTS which is not that better than DD.


I dont know if additonal fees are involved if you encode to DTS; Dolby True HD decoding is required on all HD-DVD players so there should be no additional cost there, but the reason to do it for the addon is to provide the highest possible sound quality from the optical output from the 360 when playing HD-DVD's. At 1.5mb it will sound significantly better than standard Dolby Digital and will be recognised by practically any AV receiver. This means better sound with no need for an immediate upgrade to an HDMI receiver.


Two uninformed guess:
1)Microsoft do so to make sure Studios will not drop DTHD because of lack of players support.

See my point above about DTHD

As for HDMI, would be nice. But IMO not essential over the forseeable life of this addon. For me this is the first step into HD-DVD; I will definitely buy a standalone in the future when the dust has settled over things like 1080p and HDMI(1.3 or even 1.4).

Indeed. I'm not going to buy a new display/receiver until HDMI handshaking becomes more reliable, and full 1.3 is supported.

In the infancy of HD discs, the Xbox 360 HD DVD drive will be fine over component with my current HDTV. It'd be even more fine if amirm and friends put in the Xbox 360 more aspect ratio control for 4:3 HD material, for those of us with older HDTVs.

I dont know if additonal fees are involved if you encode to DTS;

I guess it would. And usually encoders are costlier than decoders ...

Yes 640 Kbps DD 5.1 can be excellent, but in this situation we're talking on-the-fly encodes. Perhaps the extra bits will help.

That's the same logic used to defend the use of MPEG-2 over VC1. Bitrate cannot be used to estimate quality differences between codecs.

At 1.5mb it will sound significantly better than standard Dolby Digital and will be recognised by practically any AV receiver.

That's a myth, nobody's been able to tell DD from DTS in blind tests, and every DVD track that has a reportedly "better" DTS track has been shown to be due to a different mix on the DTS track and not the codec itself. DTS's superiority over DD is purely marketing.

That's the same logic used to defend the use of MPEG-2 over VC1.
No it isn't. In fact, it's completely different. Nobody does lossless video conversions to MPEG2 or VC1 on the fly for watching movies.

That's a myth, nobody's been able to tell DD from DTS in blind tests, and every DVD track that has a reportedly "better" DTS track has been shown to be due to a different mix on the DTS track and not the codec itself. DTS's superiority over DD is purely marketing.

That may be true for SD DVD's but in the context of HD-DVD I think the higher encode will make a difference. Coming from a lossless audio track on the HD-DVD the higher encode should sound better as its delivering the highest encode from a lossless audio source. On normal SD DVD's this is not the case as the sound streams are compressed and are normally not encoded at their maximum bitrates. The Toshiba A1/XA1 provide this DTS stream from their digital outputs and its considered the optimum output after the Dolby Digital+ and lossless TrueHD soundtrack available from the analog ouputs.

We all know the pluses and the minuses of the 360 Add-on. Please, real reviews will be ongoing starting in November. Let us wait and see.

The most important question now is the date of release, and how many people buy it that don't have a 360.

Any one know?

No it isn't. In fact, it's completely different. Nobody does lossless video conversions to MPEG2 or VC1 on the fly for watching movies.

That's because 1 HD video is unmanageably huge, and MPEG-2/VC-1 compression of HD is far from trivial.

Audio, on the other hand, is trivial to encode in realtime. Audio encoding is trivial with todays processing power.

But in the end it's exactly the same. Lots and lots of people use the "more bits is better" arguement in lots of places it doesn't apply. This is one of them.

Now of course 640k DD is better than 448k DD, and 1.5Mbps DTS is better than 768k DTS. But just because DTS is 1.5M and DD is 640k doesn't make DTS better, they use drastically different algorithms.

And in basically every case where a comparison is done between the codecs where the DD and DTS come from the same master, the result is that there's no significant difference between them.

That may be true for SD DVD's but in the context of HD-DVD I think the higher encode will make a difference. Coming from a lossless audio track on the HD-DVD the higher encode should sound better as its delivering the highest encode from a lossless audio source.

DVDs are encoded from a lossless source as well.

On normal SD DVD's this is not the case as the sound streams are compressed and are normally not encoded at their maximum bitrates.

But the DD and DTS tracks are not made from compressed tracks, they're made from the masters (theoretically the same thing we get with DTHD).

The Toshiba A1/XA1 provide this DTS stream from their digital outputs and its considered the optimum output after the Dolby Digital+ and lossless TrueHD soundtrack available from the analog ouputs.

That "belief" is completely unsupported by any fact. Take a look in the Audio Theory section of the forum. This has been discussed there a few times, eg here:
http://archive.hometheaterforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=158539&perpage=30&display=&pagenumber=1

I am curious. Would it be at all possible for Microsoft to release a small USB controlled box with some DAC's in it to give us 8 channel analogue out for the xbox 360?

Just an idea

The most important question now is the date of release, and how many people buy it that don't have a 360.

Date - don't know. But for the other question - very few. Atleast until someone figures out how to use it with a PC.

Gamestop told me November 7th when i preordered it. Might cancel the preorder now that i know the audio isn't lossless though, Not really worth a couple hundred price drop from the standalones for me.

I believe the XB360 will release between the 11/14 & 11/25 due to the fact that is when the HD-DVD version of King Kong is suppose to release, & since MS is doing a bundle of KK with the XB360 add-on, it makes sense as a release date.

I believe the XB360 will release between the 11/14 & 11/25 due to the fact that is when the HD-DVD version of King Kong is suppose to release, & since MS is doing a bundle of KK with the XB360 add-on, it makes sense as a release date.

Thats probably just an extra perk for buying the 360 addon sense Peter Jackson is going to be doing some stuff with the Xbox 360.

IIRC, somebody from MS said that Xbox 360 add-on drive purchasers will have King Kong before everyone else.

Amazon still lists Nov 7th.

That's the same logic used to defend the use of MPEG-2 over VC1. Bitrate cannot be used to estimate quality differences between codecs.



That's a myth, nobody's been able to tell DD from DTS in blind tests, and every DVD track that has a reportedly "better" DTS track has been shown to be due to a different mix on the DTS track and not the codec itself. DTS's superiority over DD is purely marketing.

A MYTH!?!?! the difference between DD and DTS is not in how it sounds, its how it feels! DD is over there, while DTS is right in your face!
and watch the phantom of the opera in DD and then DTS and you will see!
its so much more emotional with dts, all music is fantastic in dts, and its not HOW they sound, its where! and with dts it right in your soul!

so no its no myth!

A MYTH!?!?! the difference between DD and DTS is not in how it sounds, its how it feels! DD is over there, while DTS is right in your face!
and watch the phantom of the opera in DD and then DTS and you will see!
its so much more emotional with dts, all music is fantastic in dts, and its not HOW they sound, its where! and with dts it right in your soul!

so no its no myth!
I personally cant tell the only difference in soudn I get when i switch from TrueHD from any other sound...then I noticea diff.

A MYTH!?!?! the difference between DD and DTS is not in how it sounds, its how it feels! DD is over there, while DTS is right in your face!
and watch the phantom of the opera in DD and then DTS and you will see!
its so much more emotional with dts, all music is fantastic in dts, and its not HOW they sound, its where! and with dts it right in your soul!

so no its no myth!

I agree. I know nothing about the "science" behind putting DD and DTS on these DVDs but I have a 6.1 setup and when I watch Dominoin DTS 6.1 it is in your face when DD is just there. I'm happy to see someone else wrote what I thought of DTS. I don't have an ear like most for audio but I can give an "everyday consumer" perspective.

dru

We all know the pluses and the minuses of the 360 Add-on. Please, real reviews will be ongoing starting in November. Let us wait and see.

The most important question now is the date of release, and how many people buy it that don't have a 360.

Any one know?

I preordered the HD add-on and do not yet own an Xbox 360. I was going to wait for a price drop however should the add-on receive high reviews for it's ability to play HD-DVD software, I will purchase my Xbox 360. Should the reviews be less than acceptable, I will ebay my add-on and purchase a stand-alone player. The 360 can wait for a price drop as far as I am concerned if I cannot get the most out of the unit with HD movies. Same feelings in relation to the PS3.... :cool:

A MYTH!?!?! the difference between DD and DTS is not in how it sounds, its how it feels! DD is over there, while DTS is right in your face!

That can quite easilly be explained by DTS usually being 3-4dB louder on any given DVD.

and watch the phantom of the opera in DD and then DTS and you will see!

And unless you can prove that the DD and DTS encodes were from the same master, it means nothing. I never said a DTS track can't/doesn't sound better than a DD track, it can, many do, but it's not because of DTS, it's because of how the track was made before it was encoded to DTS.

Anyway, Gamestop said November 7 when I preordered mine.

What new resolutions will the VGA cable support with the new Xbox 360 software update that they are releasing for the HD-DVD drive? I know it will support 1920x1080, but will it also support other non-16:9 high resolutions like it does with the lower resolutions (1280x768)? My monitor is 1920x1200 native, so I just want to make sure that movies won't be vertically stretched on it.
That's a very interesting question that nobody knows or wants to answer AFAIK. I'm in the same situation with a 24" 1920x1200 Dell display.

Just ordered mine from Amazon! Now to get my hands on some movies!

That's a myth, nobody's been able to tell DD from DTS in blind tests, and every DVD track that has a reportedly "better" DTS track has been shown to be due to a different mix on the DTS track and not the codec itself. DTS's superiority over DD is purely marketing.
1) I never the DTS conversion would necessarily be better than the DD+ conversion. I suggested it might have an advantage here because it has 235% the bandwidth (even if DD+ were more efficient).
2) The vast majority of commercial DTS tracks on DVDs out there are not 1.5 Mbps. They are half that. On what were the blind taste tests done?
3) This is on-the-fly encoding, not hand massaged encoding. On what were the blind taste tests done?
4) You are making assumptions about TrueHD --> DD Plus 640 vs. TrueHD DTS 1.5 on-the-fly encoding from an Xbox 360 without even having ever heard that output from an Xbox 360.

Personally I don't understand your criticism here of people looking forward to a free option being considered by those programming the Xbox 360, especially when it's clear it's unlikely you possess all the facts at this time.

Ironically, while I would like to have that option, it's of low priority to me, because I'm usually already satisified with the level of audio on even "just" good quality DD5.1 DVD tracks. I actually often prefer some of them to the DTS tracks, because I prefer the mix. (A few DTS tracks I listened to seemed to be a bit heavy in the surrounds to my ear, even when you turned down the total volume.) In fact, I think the vast majority of Xbox 360 HD DVD drive purchasers won't care, and I agree that many might not even notice the difference even if the option were there.

So actually, aspect ratio control for 4:3 material is much more important to me than on-the-fly DTS encoding. If amirm and friends gave us that aspect ratio control but no on-the-fly DTS encoding, I would be OVERJOYED.

Audio quality is very important to me and I would love to see DTS encoding offered. In fact I would like to see DTS 96/24 as a possibility. I believe that this is the highest quality possibile for multi-channel over SPDIF.

Audio quality is very important to me and I would love to see DTS encoding offered. In fact I would like to see DTS 96/24 as a possibility. I believe that this is the highest quality possibile for multi-channel over SPDIF.

Then you would be better off buying HD-A1.

BTW, did you mean DTSHD 96/24 ? We have had enough talk about the futility of 96/24 - so I won't start on that ;)

Hey edcokpareke sorry I took so long but I had a lot of other work to do. For all of you that do not know. My camera is trash and I am trying to hold the camera as still as possible.

The component is at 1080i and calibrated with DVE.
The VGA is at 1360 x 768 and calibrated with DVE.

Service Menu adjustments include all Gamma set to "0". Dynamic Black off with the iris closed. Also turned DNIe off and overscan is off (Samsung HL-S5088W). Also did a little Contrast and Brightness in there as well. I am using Movie mode is each.

These pics are in the order of Component then it's VGA equivalent. The Halo Wars come from my computer via the media center extension. The random pics of the frog and the butterfly come from a 1080p Pure Video demo that is also through the media extension.

EDIT: I forgot that I turned my contrast up a little bit when looking at the Turtles scene edcokpareke and I were looking so now I have to post more pics later . Damn Sorry.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q1/Izum27/Dashboard_Component.jpg
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q1/Izum27/Dashboard_VGA.jpg
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q1/Izum27/Halo_Wars1_Component.jpg
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q1/Izum27/Halo_Wars1_VGA.jpg
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q1/Izum27/Halo_Wars2_Component.jpg
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q1/Izum27/Halo_Wars2_VGA.jpg
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q1/Izum27/Halo_Wars3_Component.jpg
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q1/Izum27/Halo_Wars3_VGA.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q1/Izum27/PofC1_Component.jpg
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q1/Izum27/PofC1_VGA.jpg
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q1/Izum27/PofC2_Component.jpg
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q1/Izum27/PofC2_VGA.jpg
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q1/Izum27/PofC3_Component.jpg
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q1/Izum27/PofC3_VGA.jpg
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q1/Izum27/Other2_Component.jpg
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q1/Izum27/Other2_VGA.jpg
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q1/Izum27/Other1_Component.jpg
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q1/Izum27/Other1_VGA.jpg

Now that I go back and fix my contrast. My VGA pic of the second Halo_wars does not have that much light. I think my camera is doing that, because it still looks like that with the fix contrast.

I wouldn't make a judgement off these pics.

I will say though that somethings do indeed look better in component that it does in VGA. I just hope everything looks great in the update over VGA.

Now that I go back and fix my contrast. My VGA pic of the second Halo_wars does not have that much light. I think my camera is doing that, because it still looks like that with the fix contrast.

I wouldn't make a judgement off these pics.

I will say though that somethings do indeed look better in component that it does in VGA. I just hope everything looks great in the update over VGA.

Thanks for the pics. I would also have to vote for component when looking at the above pics. :cool:

1) I never the DTS conversion would necessarily be better than the DD+ conversion. I suggested it might have an advantage here because it has 235% the bandwidth (even if DD+ were more efficient).

That's my point, DD and DTS are very different codecs such that there's no basis for the X better than Y because X uses more bits than Y arguement.

2) The vast majority of commercial DTS tracks on DVDs out there are not 1.5 Mbps. They are half that. On what were the blind taste tests done?

The one I linked was 448k DD vs 768k DTS.

3) This is on-the-fly encoding, not hand massaged encoding. On what were the blind taste tests done?

Does anybody hand massage audio encoding? I doubt it.

4) You are making assumptions about TrueHD --> DD Plus 640 vs. TrueHD DTS 1.5 on-the-fly encoding from an Xbox 360 without even having ever heard that output from an Xbox 360.

I'm stating that the evidence is that the DD and DTS codecs are equivalent on a sound quality perspective, and that the cry for DTS is unfounded.

Personally I don't understand your criticism here of people looking forward to a free option being considered by those programming the Xbox 360, especially when it's clear it's unlikely you possess all the facts at this time.

My critisism is that people blindly seek DTS when they don't have all the facts.

Ironically, while I would like to have that option, it's of low priority to me, because I'm usually already satisified with the level of audio on even "just" good quality DD5.1 DVD tracks. I actually often prefer some of them to the DTS tracks, because I prefer the mix. (A few DTS tracks I listened to seemed to be a bit heavy in the surrounds to my ear, even when you turned down the total volume.) In fact, I think the vast majority of Xbox 360 HD DVD drive purchasers won't care, and I agree that many might not even notice the difference even if the option were there.

Agreed that's the other point, there are many, many more things that should be done before bothering with DTS, like vertical stretch for us constant height people. Especially when there's no sonic benefit to DTS.

My critisism is that people blindly seek DTS when they don't have all the facts.


I cant speak for anyone else but I am not asking for DTS "blindly" - the point is the DTS encode is at a higher bitrate than the Dolby Digital output and should produce better sound in the absence of the lossless soundtrack. I presume Toshiba provided this output on their players for a reason, not just because they blindly think DTS is better. If the situation was reversed in favour of DD I would be in support of maximum bitrate at that format.


Especially when there's no sonic benefit to DTS.

In your opinion. Others may have differing views.

The beauty of the Xbox 360 is that its flexible enough to adapt and provide additional features. The addition of a DTS stream does not preclude it from adding other enhancements or addressing other user's issues.

And thats all from me on this. Roll on the 7th for the addon!

The one I linked was 448k DD vs 768k DTS.


I expect some improvement at 1.5 - depending on the material (usually music would make differences apparent).

I cant speak for anyone else but I am not asking for DTS "blindly" - the point is the DTS encode is at a higher bitrate than the Dolby Digital output and should produce better sound in the absence of the lossless soundtrack.

The "more bitrate equals better quality" argument again, how many times does it need to be said/shows that you can't compare bitrates across codecs (VC-1 vs MPEG-2 is the best current example).

I presume Toshiba provided this output on their players for a reason, not just because they blindly think DTS is better.

They probably did it because DTS looks better on paper, purely marketing. Just look at this thread.

If the situation was reversed in favour of DD I would be in support of maximum bitrate at that format.

What do you mean "in favor of", you'll side with whichever codec uses the most bits? mp3 over aac? MPEG-2 over VC-1?

In your opinion. Others may have differing views.

Most base their opinions on flawed comparisons and lack of research. There's a great deal of that in the audio world, fortunately the same is not as true in the video world.

The beauty of the Xbox 360 is that its flexible enough to adapt and provide additional features. The addition of a DTS stream does not preclude it from adding other enhancements or addressing other user's issues.

No it doesn't, but it does require resources to develop, test and deploy, resources that would be better put to use doing other things (like aspect ratio control).

I expect some improvement at 1.5 - depending on the material (usually music would make differences apparent).

I would expect improvements going to 640k from 448k (just look at the glowing reports about 640k DD on DTheater). But the "more bits is better" argument is only applicable when confined to a single codec, when you start introducing different codecs all bets are off.

How many people said VC-1 could not be as good as MPEG-2 because it used less bits. And how did that turn out.

And thats all from me on this. Roll on the 7th for the addon!

Agreed.

But the "more bits is better" argument is only applicable when confined to a single codec, when you start introducing different codecs all bets are off.

Right ... thats why I said from 778kbps (?) to 1.5Mbps on DTS should give better results.

Most base their opinions on flawed comparisons and lack of research. There's a great deal of that in the audio world, fortunately the same is not as true in the video world.
You're guilty of the same... extrapolating from incomplete information, and throwing your own bias into the mix.

How many people said VC-1 could not be as good as MPEG-2 because it used less bits.
Not very many relative to the number people on this forum, as I recall.

That can quite easilly be explained by DTS usually being 3-4dB louder on any given DVD.



And unless you can prove that the DD and DTS encodes were from the same master, it means nothing. I never said a DTS track can't/doesn't sound better than a DD track, it can, many do, but it's not because of DTS, it's because of how the track was made before it was encoded to DTS.

Anyway, Gamestop said November 7 when I preordered mine.


DD sounds less involving on the same volume, I turn down the volume when listening to DTS.
and then what is it you are saying? its not because of DTS but how the track was made before encoded to dts? what?!?! you could say that about anything!!! of course DD or DTS dont sound good if not the sound in the movie from the beginning was made in a good way, and I doubt very much that they make one master for DTS and one for DD so then what you are saying dont make sense at all. DTS is better then DD period, I dont think there is anything to discuss here, if anyone disagrees you are very welcome to come to my house and do a "blindtest" and you will see...I mean hear hehe.

and as far as masters go and movies with very good sound where even the DD track sounds amazing, DTS is still always better.
and with better I mean more involving and "damn I am IN the action".
but DD has its upside, its more balanced and its sounds more easy to point out from where they came, but the sounds come more from where the speakers are and that makes it as if you are in what happening but on a little distance.

but the difference between DTS and DD dont show as much depending on your soundsystem and how you have the speakers set up, I lost a little bit of emotion in my dts movies after I moved my sound setup, so everybody might not have it set up so they get 100% out of there system.


back to talking about this threads real purpose, when is this addon coming?! no news?

November 12th.

Nov. 7 according to Amazon.com, EB Games, and Game Spot. However, Robert says he was told November 14 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8715341&&#post8715341) is the official release date, even though he expects to receive his units Nov. 7 as well.

My local EB Games (Toronto) told me I should have it by Nov. 12, which is exactly 2 weeks from now. Excellent...

http://www.nightswimming.com/pics/burnsgates.jpg

P.S. The Xbox 360 add-on HD DVD drive is "only" in 3rd place at Amazon.com right now, after Final Fantasy XII for the PS2 and Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas for the Xbox 360.

Nov. 7 according to Amazon.com, EB Games, and Game Spot. However, Robert says he was told November 14 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8715341&&#post8715341) is the official release date, even though he expects to receive his units Nov. 7 as well.

My local EB Games (Toronto) told me I should have it by Nov. 12, which is exactly 2 weeks from now. Excellent...

http://www.nightswimming.com/pics/burnsgates.jpg

P.S. The Xbox 360 add-on HD DVD drive is "only" in 3rd place at Amazon.com right now, after Final Fantasy XII for the PS2 and Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas for the Xbox 360.I preordered mine ten days ago and I was told November 7th then and was told the same thing yesterday from the same store.

Do anyone knows how much they'll ship? There's will be almost 9M Xbox 360 user world wide in December...

I heard 250,000 in the initial shipment.

I would think MS wouldn't care to much about the 11-14-06 street date on the HD-DVD version of King Kong. With the SD version already having been released several months ago, The 360 add-on wouldn't be cutting into sales of the HD-DVD version since those buying the add-on will be getting it included anyways and those with-out the add-on will still buy it for their Toshiba's and RCA's on the 14th.

Now that I go back and fix my contrast. My VGA pic of the second Halo_wars does not have that much light. I think my camera is doing that, because it still looks like that with the fix contrast.

I wouldn't make a judgement off these pics.

I will say though that somethings do indeed look better in component that it does in VGA. I just hope everything looks great in the update over VGA.
Others have said that component is better than VGA on their Xbox 360 setups too.

OK for me, since my main TV doesn't support VGA anyway.


I heard 250,000 in the initial shipment.
I heard that too on this forum, but I have no source. Do you have a link?

Others have said that component is better than VGA on their Xbox 360 setups too.

I noticed this as well, and ended up returning the VGA cable. That said, it wasn't that the component was significantly better, but I just didn't see $40 worth of difference in the picture. Considering I only have a 720p projector, I can't say I'm all that surprised.

However, it will be interesting to see what additional resolutions they put into the fall update.

I was talking to my local HT specialty store and they just came back from a toshiba tech day as he called it. He said that the HD-DVD player for the 360 looked just as good at the HD-A1 or A1X players. That is good news.

Off topic a little bit. I watched Sleepy Hollow last night (halloween spirit) on the xbox 360 on my projector over component cables. there was a bar about 1 to 2 inch(s) thick across the top of the screen that was not totally white but was almost totally washing the picture out. Does anybody else notice anything weird at the top of the image when watching movies from xbox 360 that looks similar to that? When I use my computer as a source it is not there.

I would hate to get my HD-DVD add on drive and have that across the top of my screen. For refernce my 360 is set to 720p and sleepy Hallow is normal (SD) DVD and projector is 800 x 600 (720p & 1080i compatible) benq PB6100. When I watch DVD's on computer I resize to 1280 x 720 and don't get anything like that.

Don't mean to take over thread or anything just figured you have probably all watched at least one movie on 360 just to see quality so best place to ask.

Thanks in advace,

Rheal.

I was talking to my local HT specialty store and they just came back from a toshiba tech day as he called it. He said that the HD-DVD player for the 360 looked just as good at the HD-A1 or A1X players. That is good news.

Off topic a little bit. I watched Sleepy Hollow last night (halloween spirit) on the xbox 360 on my projector over component cables. there was a bar about 1 to 2 inch(s) thick across the top of the screen that was not totally white but was almost totally washing the picture out. Does anybody else notice anything weird at the top of the image when watching movies from xbox 360 that looks similar to that? When I use my computer as a source it is not there.

I would hate to get my HD-DVD add on drive and have that across the top of my screen. For refernce my 360 is set to 720p and sleepy Hallow is normal (SD) DVD and projector is 800 x 600 (720p & 1080i compatible) benq PB6100. When I watch DVD's on computer I resize to 1280 x 720 and don't get anything like that.

Don't mean to take over thread or anything just figured you have probably all watched at least one movie on 360 just to see quality so best place to ask.

Thanks in advace,

Rheal.


Hey if you check my setup you will see that I use to have the same setup as yours but I was running the projector at 16:9 instead of 4:3. What you see in my setup is gladiator on my xbox 360. Although I am using VGA cables as well because the PB6100 does not have component input. How are you using component? Are you using what I would presume as a component to VGA cable? I used that on my Xbox 1 at the time. Try displaying 16:9 just to see if it has that bar. Also it might be that the top of the 4:3 is faded because its to high compared to your viewing position. This is all just speculation though because I cannot visualize what you are saying. Never seen it before.

I changed setups because everything I put into the Benq because it was native 800 x 600 and wasn't getting a lot of detail. Looking at your pic it looks better than what I had.

Management,

I had the projector set to 16:9. yes it is a Component to VGA cable.

Thanks for the reply.

I was talking to my local HT specialty store and they just came back from a toshiba tech day as he called it. He said that the HD-DVD player for the 360 looked just as good at the HD-A1 or A1X players. That is good news.

Rheal.

That is excellent news!!! I truly hope this is the case. I guess now I need to decide on waiting for the reviews to come out...then purchasing my 360...or purchasing the 360 now through Amazon and receiving a free game. :cool:

Is the 360 addon region free and if so how long do you guys think it will stay that way? Are there any plans to force region locking in the future??

Is the 360 addon region free and if so how long do you guys think it will stay that way? Are there any plans to force region locking in the future??

The region locking for SD DVDs is in the console -- not the add on. There is no region coding for HD DVD's yet -- possible in the future.

Thanks bobgpsr, another quick question. One of the freindly AV'sers has offered to send one to Australia, I'm assuming there will be no issues hooking it up to a PAL console??

Thanks bobgpsr, another quick question. One of the freindly AV'sers has offered to send one to Australia, I'm assuming there will be no issues hooking it up to a PAL console??

IIRC a MS employee went on record as saying there would be no issues with PAL. But it might help to check again to get the official word from MS.

If it does play PAL sd dvds, what does it ouput them as? 576P..? Upscaled to 720P converted to ntsc first? 50 hz. 60 hz...?
If it could play region free PAL discs then if I could only get someone to backup my PAL dvds, I could do this and maybe sell my oppo...?

This is coming out on 11/14 per the latest issue of the Official XBOX Magazine.

This is coming out on 11/14 per the latest issue of the Official XBOX Magazine.

Zune is out on 11/14 too ...

If it does play PAL sd dvds, what does it ouput them as? 576P..? Upscaled to 720P converted to ntsc first? 50 hz. 60 hz...?

I'd imagine it will be same as what it does now ... I expect same s/w will play dvds from the internal and the add-on drives.

Xbox 360 dashboard update (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=148359)

Monday 30-Oct-2006 10:59 AM Microsoft will release a dashboard update tomorrow, which features 1080p and HD-DVD support, says Japanese mag Famitsu

In addition to the long awaited resolution bump-up and add-on support, the update will also include a start menu item for XNA-developed games, improved Xbox Live Arcade and Marketplace functions, along with over 80 other additions and goodies.

Famitsu pens the update for tomorrow in Japan, but considering that the Xbox 360 Wireless Communicator, an accessory that requires the new dashboard to work, is street dated for the same day in the States, we're assuming that it will be broadcast worldwide - if indeed it is landing in the next 24 hours.

When we reached for the dog and bone, Microsoft was unfortunately unavailable for comment.

We'll keep our eyes on the 360 for now - and clutch that HD-DVD player in anticipation for its activation along with the new dashboard.

Amir, can you tell us what the official release date for this is in the UK cos nobody seems to know for sure at this point!

I'm not much of a gamer anymore, but I have to say as an all purpose media and entertainment device the Xbox 360 has by far exceeded my expectations. The fact that I'm getting into HD-DVD at only 200.00 makes it that much better. I am a very satisfied customer. :D

YESSSSSSS!!!!!! http://www.engadgethd.com/ (scroll down a little - 1080p Update)

Seems the addon wont be my first taste of HD after all; I will be streaming my WMV HD copy of Terminator 2 as soon as the update is loaded :)

I just visited a Local CC; I am amazed how they s@%! on HD-DVD. I saw Blu-Ray prominently displayed and HD-DVD relegated to a Liquidation type bin. They don't sell HD-DVD players and they Blu-Ray players aren't selling. Go figure.

This is coming out on 11/14 per the latest issue of the Official XBOX Magazine.

EB Games will ship 360 HD DVDs on 11/7. Availability on 11/8. Dachawk

Amir, can you tell us what the official release date for this is in the UK cos nobody seems to know for sure at this point!
Count me in the list people who don't know :). But I will try to find out.

Thanks bobgpsr, another quick question. One of the freindly AV'sers has offered to send one to Australia, I'm assuming there will be no issues hooking it up to a PAL console??
Correct. Region setting is in the console, not the drive. So for SD video, wherever you bought your console determines what discs you can play. Of course, for HD DVD, it doesn't matter.

I think someone asked if we are adding region coding to this product. The answer is no. Even if there is a region coding spec one day, it will not require changes to existing products.

So actually, aspect ratio control for 4:3 material is much more important to me than on-the-fly DTS encoding. If amirm and friends gave us that aspect ratio control but no on-the-fly DTS encoding, I would be OVERJOYED.
O.M.G. Is this what I was talking about, or is it something else:

DVD Player

Optionally disable notifications from Xbox Live while watching DVD movies.
Improved support for audio streams on incorrectly authored DVDs.
Better handling of unreadable discs.
Updated count-down timer.
HD DVD player support.
Added zoom support for non-anamorphic content.
Added support to Family Settings to block Unrated Content

Complete list of upgrades. (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/community/news/2006/1030-novemberupdate-completelist.htm)

If you haven't yet seen the list of updates being added to the Xbox 360 you can see them here: http://www.xbox.com/en-US/community/news/2006/1030-novemberupdate-completelist.htm The fall update will allow xbox 360 owners to play video files from a usb device. If that is the case it appears that owners be able to download, or otherwise obtain, WMV HD files and play them directly from an attached flash drive or external hard drive. I have two questions. Has anyone created a library of wmv hd movies? Is there any wmv hd content out there other than the files listed on the Microsoft website? Has anyone created a library of their DVD movies in wmv format? Would it be wise to do so?

How come the WMV HD files (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/musicandvideo/hdvideo/contentshowcase.aspx) on the MS site are executables?

Are they just self-expanding files? Sorry for the n00b question, but I'm a Mac user here.

P.S. I guess those pr0n pseudo-HD DVD discs will now work on the Xbox 360. :p

Amir, this question was asked of you earlier, but got pushed back in the thread:

"Currently the VGA cable supports 1360x768. My Hitachi 37" LCD is native 1366x768 and doesn't support 1360x768 over VGA, therefore it does some strange scaling. For best results I run at 1280x768 but end up with vertical black bars on either side of the screen. This doesn't bother me for games but will when I grab a HD-DVD add-on (whenever they come out in Australia!).

Will the fall update include support for 1366x768?"

Do you have an answer? Thanks.

Add 1680x1050P to that question since alot of the newer widescreen monitors have that for the max input resolution.

I read earlier in this thread that there are/were black level problems over VGA. Does this problem only apply to DVD playback or to games also? Was this fixed in the most recent update?

If it does play PAL sd dvds, what does it ouput them as? 576P..? Upscaled to 720P converted to ntsc first? 50 hz. 60 hz...?
If it could play region free PAL discs then if I could only get someone to backup my PAL dvds, I could do this and maybe sell my oppo...?


good question.

:)

good question.

:)

Yea why does everyone ignore these PAL questions? Thanks

That's a very interesting question that nobody knows or wants to answer AFAIK. I'm in the same situation with a 24" 1920x1200 Dell display.

You could put your monitor into 1:1 mode (assuming it has firmware for that).

The 360 will be doing some scaling and I ultimately wouldn't want that since things will get distorted or cut off to make something 16:9 encoded fit into a 16:10 space.

The fall update will allow xbox 360 owners to play video files from a usb device.

Does this include MPEG2 and H.264 TS files?

I believe it is only for WMV, which is too bad.

I believe it is only for WMV, which is too bad.

But xbox360 could play MPEG TS streaming from MCE, why not support it in the USB HDD.

How come the WMV HD files (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/musicandvideo/hdvideo/contentshowcase.aspx) on the MS site are executables?

Are they just self-expanding files? Sorry for the n00b question, but I'm a Mac user here.

P.S. I guess those pr0n pseudo-HD DVD discs will now work on the Xbox 360. :p
They are that way to get around an issue with your browser, trying to play the files I believe, rather than download.

Amir, this question was asked of you earlier, but got pushed back in the thread:

"Currently the VGA cable supports 1360x768. My Hitachi 37" LCD is native 1366x768 and doesn't support 1360x768 over VGA, therefore it does some strange scaling. For best results I run at 1280x768 but end up with vertical black bars on either side of the screen. This doesn't bother me for games but will when I grab a HD-DVD add-on (whenever they come out in Australia!).

Will the fall update include support for 1366x768?"

Do you have an answer? Thanks.
I am still waiting for an answer on this from the Xbox team. As soon as I know, I will post it.

Amir, can you tell us what the official release date for this is in the UK cos nobody seems to know for sure at this point!
The answere is "on and around mid-November." We can't be more specific because it is hard to predict worldwide exactly which day it hits the store shelves.

O.M.G. Is this what I was talking about, or is it something else:

DVD Player

Optionally disable notifications from Xbox Live while watching DVD movies.
Improved support for audio streams on incorrectly authored DVDs.
Better handling of unreadable discs.
Updated count-down timer.
HD DVD player support.
Added zoom support for non-anamorphic content.
Added support to Family Settings to block Unrated Content

Complete list of upgrades. (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/community/news/2006/1030-novemberupdate-completelist.htm)
So, amirm (or anyone else), what is this "zoom support for non-anamorphic content"? Is this a straight zoom, or is it actually the aspect ratio control I've been wishing for?

I guess I'll find out tomorrow in any case...


They are that way to get around an issue with your browser, trying to play the files I believe, rather than download.
OK. Any Mac users out there know how to extract a data file from an exe within OS X? No biggie though, since I can just fire up XP in Parallels.

EDIT:

Stuffit Expander works to expand these within OS X. Once expanded, these WMV HD files play fine with Flip4Mac (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/player/wmcomponents.mspx) using QT.

I'll have to start collecting these WMV HD files for playback on the Xbox 360.

amirm,

I've heard that GameStop/EB have preorders for their entire launch allocation of the Xbox360 HD-DVD drive. Any rough numbers on how many units for GameStop/EB, or - even better - for the US?

It seems that preorders have exceeded expectations.

EDIT: Hmmmm, I guess amirm took off...

Okay then, new topic... When and where did you preorder the Xbox360 HD-DVD drive?

I'll start: 9/27 at EBGames.com

amirm,

When playing a HD-DVD is the output resolution use the same setting as the system uses for displaying games? I ask this because I want my games at 720p (to take advantage of the added frames) and let my tv scale to 1080p and I want my movies at 1080i to not lose resolution. Sony screwed XBR1 owners by not allowing 1080p inputs (thanks sony, from us early adopters).

It would be very annoying to have to manually switch this everytime I want to switch what I'm doing.

Seems the addon wont be my first taste of HD after all; I will be streaming my WMV HD copy of Terminator 2 as soon as the update is loaded :)

I assume that means it will support this disk without other software being loaded? I was able to successfully copy and stream the Magic of Flight WMV disk but T2 is dependent on the buggy software on the disk. The update cures this? I missed it will look at the list again!

amirm,

I've heard that GameStop/EB have preorders for their entire launch allocation of the Xbox360 HD-DVD drive. Any rough numbers on how many units for GameStop/EB, or - even better - for the US?

It seems that preorders have exceeded expectations.

EDIT: Hmmmm, I guess amirm took off...
Hmmm. Just got home and had dinner is all. :).

Anyway, I can't disclose numbers like this. But demand seems very strong.

Hmmm. Just got home and had dinner is all. :).

Anyway, I can't disclose numbers like this. But demand seems very strong.

It is amazing people dont care abt lack of HDMI?

Most HD sets don't have HDMI/DVI. The majority only have analog inputs.

More and more people seem to be having problems with the various versions of HDMI exhibiting problems. Amir might be able to comment on this, but it would seem that currently the implementation that will have the widest support and the least problems in the Component/vga interface, and since on the x box 360 the interface to the display would not be on the HD DVD drive but on the console, it would not be out of the question to have a HDMI interface at some point in the future, allowing for 1.3 or beyond.

John

It is amazing people dont care abt lack of HDMI?

No, it's not amazing at all, considering component/VGA is perfectly capable of transmitting the best picture a HD-DVD player can muster.

On my 720p projector specifically, component actually looks better than any material I've seen through its DVI(-D) input.

I assume that means it will support this disk without other software being loaded? I was able to successfully copy and stream the Magic of Flight WMV disk but T2 is dependent on the buggy software on the disk. The update cures this? I missed it will look at the list again!

I dont know, havent actually tried to watch the WMV version yet. Just looked and the wmv files are there but as you say it seems to want the installed software before it will play. I guess the wait continues...

The answere is "on and around mid-November." We can't be more specific because it is hard to predict worldwide exactly which day it hits the store shelves.
Hello Amir,
Could you confirm for me if the Add-on's are region locked to match players region codes, ie if i buy an add-on in japan can i use it with a machine from the UK/USA?
Thanks,
Will.

PS.sry if this has been asked and answered :)

I asked the same question. Console is region locked but the HD DVD addon is not

I asked the same question. Console is region locked but the HD DVD addon is not
Just to clarify what you said... If you play SD DVDs in the HD DVD add-on drive you're still region-locked, because the locking is in the console.

Also, no HD DVD player in existence is region-locked for HD DVD playback, so the Xbox 360 with add-on drive is no different here.

Actually, I'm a little bit surprised the HD DVD drive itself is not region-locked for DVDs. If it works on PCs, it would thus make for an excellent DVD ripping drive for alternate region DVDs.

Well MS has just released the fall dashboard update for the XB360. I signed on to XBL & was notified that an update was avaiable for my Xb360. I went ahead & updated it & now I can stream WMV files off my PC to my Xb360 unto my HP 1080p DLP TV!!!!!!!

So 1st thing I did was go to Gametrailers.com & D/L HD trailers of Gears of Wars WMV clips onto my PC for streaming.

I also went into my XB360 dashboard settings to check what new features & options we can see. I now see in the HDTV settings on my Xb360 the option to select 1080p.
I tried enabling the 1080p in my XB360 Dashboard HDTV settings, but everytime I try, my screen goes blank for 10 secs, then reappears & my setting goes back to 1080i.

Has this to do with the fact the XB360 is connected using Component?

Have you downloaded the FALL UPDATE? It's up go and get it. 1080P support!

Hmmm. Just got home and had dinner is all. :).

Anyway, I can't disclose numbers like this. But demand seems very strong.

Thanks for the reply.

You have quite a following these days on Ye Ole' IntreWebs... ;)

Keep up the good work!

Has this to do with the fact the XB360 is connected using Component?

No most likely means that your TV doesn't support 1080p over component.

It is amazing people dont care abt lack of HDMI?

Whats so amazing... there are millions of HD sets that do not even have HDMI. They all have component. A great many have VGA.

And its TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS. With a movie that lists for$25.

So for an extra $175 out of pocket the HD DVD addon will get many a 360 owner through to gen 3/4/5 players that will outperform anything we could buy today.

Will the fall update include support for 1366x768?"


Not this morning :( 1920 X 1080 is the only new VGA resolution.

Most tvs arent even taking the 1080p via vga
37d90u isnt\niether is the xbr2 (and the xbr2 has a Vga port)


has anyone here confirmed that it did 1080p via a vga on there TV

from what ive been hearing it works through component but that would mean hddvd movies will only play at 720p i think?

Yes, 1920x1080P works. I have a 61" Samsung 1080P set and a Gateway 21" 1680x1050P set(it actually accepts the 1080P input although the manual implied it wouldn't)The stream videos from the PC are buttery smooth. But on my 1080P WMV files the 360 is showing them in a 4:3 aspect ratio and there is no way to change it. The zoom button or aspect button doesn't do anything. The 720P WMV files play in the correct 16:9 ratio. When the 1080P files play it is squished from the left and right making it look 4:3. Any idea what would be causing the problem? It is the same on both my sets. Other wise the update is great.

That is happening to me as well. All WMV files are 4:3 for some reason. But eveything else looks great. 1080p working for me on my 50" Sammy DLP.

Is there a spec sheet somewhere i can view for the audio output?
thx.

Yes, 1920x1080P works. I have a 61" Samsung 1080P set and a Gateway 21" 1680x1050P set(it actually accepts the 1080P input although the manual implied it wouldn't)The stream videos from the PC are buttery smooth. But on my 1080P WMV files the 360 is showing them in a 4:3 aspect ratio and there is no way to change it. The zoom button or aspect button doesn't do anything. The 720P WMV files play in the correct 16:9 ratio. When the 1080P files play it is squished from the left and right making it look 4:3. Any idea what would be causing the problem? It is the same on both my sets. Other wise the update is great.

are you guys doing it through VGA or component????

Any idea what would be causing the problem?

Many of the 1080p WMV-HD files are anamorphic 1440x1080 or 1280x1080, sounds like the 360 isn't catching the AR flag in those.

Is there a spec sheet somewhere i can view for the audio output?

There's no audio or video out on the HD DVD drive, it's just a USB HD DVD drive. The outputs are what you've got on your 360, ie S/PDIF and 640k DD.

are you guys doing it through VGA or component????

I'm using VGA on both sets.

I got a widescreen video to play through XBox 360 with VGA. It was full screen (takes up entire 56 inch Samsung screen). I can check the aspects of the clip when I get home. Some clips did however show 4:3. Thus, it needs to be a WS clip, and I didn't see a way to stretch it via the 360 for 4:3 clips. The new button, made the video even smaller for the 4:3 clips.

PS: I have 1080p Samsung DLP, and I have 1080p via VGA after the update :D

O.M.G. Is this what I was talking about, or is it something else:

DVD Player

Optionally disable notifications from Xbox Live while watching DVD movies.
Improved support for audio streams on incorrectly authored DVDs.
Better handling of unreadable discs.
Updated count-down timer.
HD DVD player support.
Added zoom support for non-anamorphic content.
Added support to Family Settings to block Unrated Content

Complete list of upgrades. (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/community/news/2006/1030-novemberupdate-completelist.htm)The new button, made the video even smaller for the 4:3 clips.
I will have to try this new button out when I get home.

Here's hoping...

can't wait to get home to check out the 1080p support. Has anyone noticed improvements in the way DVD's are upscaled over VGA? Has anyone noticed any visible difference in the games themselves (outputted as 1920x1080 as opposed to previously at 720?)