Cinema mode

Bold = Changed values from default

Contrast = 80
Brightness = 52
Color = 50
Tint = 50
Sharpness = 0
Lamp = High
Gamma = Off
Black Enhancment = Off
Iris = Auto 1 / Recommended
Color Temp = LOW
Color Mode = WIDE

*update*

PLEASE DON"T GO INTO THE SERVICE MENU UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING - IF YOU PLAY WITH OTHER THINGS IN THE SERVICE MENU YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO PUT THE SETTINGS BACK PROPERLY! GO INTO THE MENU AT YOUR OWN RISK!


Enter, Enter, Left, Enter will allow you to access the service menu.

Color Uniformity - LONG VERSION (BEST)

For those willing to try to fix color uniformity themselves by eye

Whats needed?

DVD or External Video Proccessor with full frame IRE Steps

service menu

Gamma menu

There are 12 full frame steps - with 300 points of correction on each

Green is usually set to 0 for almost everything.

I made my adj to green as to keep things simple.


Here is the list of the Internal Full Frame Steps that effect the External Full Frame IRE settings

0 = 0 IRE
1 = 5 IRE
2 = 10 IRE
3 = 20 IRE
4 = 30 IRE
5 = 40/50 IRE
6 = 60/70 IRE
7 = 70/80/90 IRE
8 = 100 IRE
9-12 = Apparently more then 100 IRE with my settings - So I am not touching these.

* I believe these are closely related to CONTRAST you have set. I have mine at default 80 - If I were to bring contrast up to max I would raise my white levels allowing me to use 9-12. I also think this would change the relationship above, but if you fix it, it will be fixed even if you change the scale.

Color Uniformity - QUICK VERSION (can minimize it not eliminate it)

For color uniformity problems with slight green shift

You can minimize by accessing

Panel Driver
Green = 85 (this is the default value on mine)

For color uniformity problems with slight red shift

You can minimize by accessing

Panel Driver
red = 85 (this is the default value on mine)

For color uniformity problems with slight blue shift

You can minimize by accessing

Panel Driver
blue = 37 (this is the default value on mine)

Uping the Blue Minimized the Green blob/push too

- I am now doing this the long way, and it is alot better as you could completly eliminate it with the right tools. You can greatly correct by eye too.

*****************************************************

Some Users settings for color temp

awtryau89's Settings

Gain
R:5
G:0
B:6
Bias
R:-3
G:0
B:-1

ERIK's Settings

Gain: R = 1, G = -2, B = 3
Bias: R = -4, G = 8, B = 0

Good stuff SOWK. These are mine:

Contrast = 80
Brightness = 49
Color = 50
Tint = 50
Sharpness =0
Lamp = Middle (should we be using low?)
Gamma = Off
Black Enhancment = Off
Iris = Auto 1 / Recommended
Color = No change for me yet

And what screens and size of it are you both using?

Can you turn off colors, i.e. Red only / Green only / Blue only modes for color calibration?

should we be using low?)


Yes, it is out of the box close to D65 Standard.

Also you may be slightly crushing blacks at 49 brightness.

If you bring up a SD DVD that has a THX Video Calibration - can you see any of the THX drop shadow?

if not you should bring it up to a point were you can just about see it. other wise you are losing some black details.

Can you turn off colors, i.e. Red only / Green only / Blue only modes for color calibration?

I haven't tried it, but I think you can with the RCP! so I think yes!

And what screens and size of it are you both using?

100" DIY

Painted ultra matte (Fog = the Color) with the smoothest rollers I could get, AKA no screen texture

96" Firehawk

Mines bigger then yours!!! lol j/k

With your calibration settings, do you have enough brightness for ambient light viewing?

Yes, even on low lamp mode!

It might be usefull for folks to indicate what calibration method/tools/software they used.

Byte - I loved your settings for the HS51a, are you going to be getting the Pearl?

Please tell me yes!

Sowk,
I used your setting and they seem to be really accurate. I have not really set my projector up yet, but have been playing dvd's thru the component hookup and i have to say this projector looks absolutely amazing. So smooth and film like would be the way i would describe it. As far as setting I want to know if anyone has gone into the secondary color setting(rcp i think its called) and tweaked the colors to better resemble the ruby. Not sure how many people actually have both projectors, but im sure someone will have some tweaks soon.
Todd

You really want to see this thing shine? Pick up a Silver Star!

How are you guys calibrating contrast? In avia I usually look for white clipping on the moving white bars, but here I can crank contrast to 100 and still see the details. Just looking for some tips.

You really want to see this thing shine? Pick up a Silver Star!

Do you see any "sparklies" when watching TV/movies or playing video games with a Silver Star? This is the screen I really want for the Pearl, but am terrified of the sparkle effect.

Movieguy...

When you push the master contrast up, watch for any color shifts. On some other Sony projects using the auto iris, the video processing portion of the process seems to get maxed out and color shift at a certain value. On the HS-51A, as I moved abve 96 contrast, I saw dramatic grayscale tracking color shifts, so I used a contrast setting of 95 and then calibrated my RGB gain/bias settings. You would not think it would make a difference, that the RGB and master contrast are link proportionally. However, I found choosing contrast of 95 over 80, tamed some of the red push inherent in the projectors video processing under auto iris.

I have not played with the Ruby or the Pearl, so maybe someone else can chime in.

If you have the time, maybe you could calibrate at contrast 80 and 95, and then see if you notice any differences.

IIRC gregr of WSR stated that one should calibrate the Ruby at contrast 80. It is likely the same for the Pearl.

Do you see any "sparklies" when watching TV/movies or playing video games with a Silver Star? This is the screen I really want for the Pearl, but am terrified of the sparkle effect.

fear not!

I could see the sparklies the first few days I had mine, but after that it was pure image enjoyment. Of the five other screens I have, hands down this is the one I enjoy watching the most.

I want to go to a 14' wide 2.35 screen. I dread having to switch from the Silver Star surface to something else. The High Power material is the next best thing to me.

PM me if you are interested in a SS

Thanks Bytehoven and HoustonHoyaFan. I appriciate the information. I'm a little suprised I'm only getting 500 lumens at close to max zoom with high lamp mode on. If I crank my contrast up to max I get about 650, but my numbers seem lower than those others have measured. I use Avia to calibrate and dont have any equipment to do any real color calibration, but the colors do seem to shift a little when I crank contrast up so I think the default of 80 may be good to stick with.

Normally, I'd write the lower light output off as just differences in measurement, placement, room, etc., but that combined with a smell I get from the projector (like a hot bulb or electronics) makes me a little nervous. Never had that happen before. On the other hand, the image is stunning so I'm thinking the smell is just because the projector is new. <shrug>. I'll just keep an eye on it and see what happens.

movieguy2001
Do you have a professional grade light meter?
Smell from a new piece of electronics is that not like new car smell? :)

fear not!

I could see the sparklies the first few days I had mine, but after that it was pure image enjoyment.


What happened after the first few days - how did the sparklies go away?

I have Steve Smallcombe's SMART calibration system with a professional light meter, but I don't have the spreadsheets that one would need, in order to calibrate my Pearl. (For those that are unfamiliar, his is a system based on using a professional light meter, some filters, and a bunch of calculations done in a spreadsheet that is specially created for each projector, taking into account what can be adjusted on each projector.)

movieguy2001
Do you have a professional grade light meter?
Smell from a new piece of electronics is that not like new car smell? :)

I have a $40 light meter that I bought online. I recognize my meter may be off or there could be any number of reasons for the differences in measurements.

The smell is a little different from that of new electronics that you buy. I thought it might go away after 6 or seven hours on the projector, but it is still there. I would expect if there is a problem it will menifest itself over time. If its abad bulb or something, that will be pretty easy to spot as I use the projector. Right now I have no complaints with the picture, so its no big deal.

This is my third projector and I've never had that happen before so thats the only reason I am a little concerned about the smell.

My first projector smelled for some time. I think the plastic need some sessions of sweating before settling.

My first projector smelled for some time. I think the plastic need some sessions of sweating before settling.

It's probably only mildly carcinogenic. :=)

Mine smells a bit, as well, especially it I put my nose up to the exhaust in the front, but after say 10 hours, it greatly diminished.

Does Pearl have 3D gamma table accessible from factory settings menu?

Mine smells a bit, as well, especially it I put my nose up to the exhaust in the front, but after say 10 hours, it greatly diminished.After 10 hours with your nose to an exhaust port the smell had better be greatly diminished.

Ba-da-boom....

Dan

My dog has no nose.

Marc

My dog has no nose.

Marc

How does he smell?

Terrible

(thanks for asking)

lol!

Does your dog bite?

Back on Topic please!

Back on Topic please!

My calibrated Pearl has no nose?

I'll have my review up tomorrow, but so far I have On/Off Contrast with DI set to Auto 1 at about 8600:1. Brightness is about 796 lumens in High Mode, and 486 in Low mode. More details to come...

Looking forward to your review Jason. What 92" diag screen would you reccomend with the Pearl in a fully light controlled room?

I have a $40 light meter that I bought online. I recognize my meter may be off or there could be any number of reasons for the differences in measurements.

The smell is a little different from that of new electronics that you buy. I thought it might go away after 6 or seven hours on the projector, but it is still there. I would expect if there is a problem it will menifest itself over time. If its abad bulb or something, that will be pretty easy to spot as I use the projector. Right now I have no complaints with the picture, so its no big deal.

This is my third projector and I've never had that happen before so thats the only reason I am a little concerned about the smell.


Hmm, mine has done it for the few hours I've had it on too. I figured it was manufacturing films of oils etc. just burning off.

Hmm, mine has done it for the few hours I've had it on too. I figurerd it was manufacturing films of oils etc. just burning off.

Mine also.

Marc

Thanks for the info guys. That makes me feel much better about it. Sounds like the smell is normal, at least for a few of us.

As for the lower brightness I'm measuring (Jason, what in the heck are you doing, running it off 220 v? :D ), I'm just going to assume its my measuring technique or light meter. I'm still hearing vastly different things on brightness from people and I'm sure a lot of it has to do with placement. I've heard several people say it is as bright as an H79, but I dont think mine was ever able to put out 700+ lumens. Who knows?

Bottom line it the picture is stunning in my light controlled room on a 120" ST130. Life is good.

I don't think you have anything to worry about my Sharp XV-10000 had a distinct odor the first couple of weeks I had it.

Does Pearl have 3D gamma table accessible from factory settings menu?A translation of a paragraph from the Cine4Home.de review of the Ruby:

Note: In each case the user and/or specialist dealer has the possibility of adjusting possible Shading. In the service menu Sony integrated a special Shading menu: In 11 different gray tones separately the RGB color distribution can be adjusted in each case, this is altogether over 3000(!! in approximately 275 different pixels) Driving points. A zielkreuz marks the range which can be stopped. Obviously this menu for an automatic work calibration is conceived, but should change the Shading after 1000 or more operation hours, then it can be after-corrected with much patience.

This feature is likely in the Pearl's service menu. Has anyone gone there yet?

Dan

I have a Pearl on order. One thing that seems to be critical in determining both brightness and contrast on the unit is the zoom setting and thus distance from the screen. The Cine4Home review quotes brightness and contrast figures for max and min zoom and they vary substantially. I understand that this is also true for the Ruby. Perhaps when providing specs and settings, the participants could also advise where the zoom setting is or the distance from and size of the screen for comparison purposes. I will have the flexibility to ceiling mount my unit pretty much anywhere in the range (min to max) shown in the throw distance tables and I will be using a 106" Carada BW. Any thoughts on the best balance where the majority of viewing will be at night with light control, with maybe 20% or less time viewing sports during the day without complete light control would be helpful. Thanks.

Thanks for the info guys. That makes me feel much better about it. Sounds like the smell is normal, at least for a few of us.

As for the lower brightness I'm measuring (Jason, what in the heck are you doing, running it off 220 v? :D ), I'm just going to assume its my measuring technique or light meter. I'm still hearing vastly different things on brightness from people and I'm sure a lot of it has to do with placement. I've heard several people say it is as bright as an H79, but I dont think mine was ever able to put out 700+ lumens. Who knows?

Bottom line it the picture is stunning in my light controlled room on a 120" ST130. Life is good.


I recently had a H79 (sold it a few days ago--with 280 hours on the bulb) before I got the Pearl and it's definately brighter than the Pearl..........no contest (even on my Silverstar with high lamp mode on)

PSB
There are many ifs. Are you talking brighter with a 100 IRE white field or are you talking about video content looking brighter. The latter can be due to a lower gamma. The h79 could have had white boost on and been a little uncalibrated. All these things would make your observation more understandable.

Witha h79 calibrated and white boost off I would expect the two projectors to have rather similar brightness.

I'll have my review up tomorrow, but so far I have On/Off Contrast with DI set to Auto 1 at about 8600:1. Brightness is about 796 lumens in High Mode, and 486 in Low mode. More details to come...

It's been a very long tomorrow!

How is everyone checking the convergence on the pearl. I tried to find cross hatches on the service menu and couldn't find any. Using a DVD?? Or does the pearl self generate?

Thanks

does anyone have the throw distance, screen size (zoom) calculator data for the Pearl. I am told it is similar BUT NOT THE SAME as for the Ruby? Many Thanks

How is everyone checking the convergence on the pearl. I tried to find cross hatches on the service menu and couldn't find any. Using a DVD?? Or does the pearl self generate?

Thanks

With a DVD checkered pattern - Not a very good method or Test Patterns through Video Proccessors at native resolution

Does anyone have a recommendation on a ceiling mount for the Pearl? Thanks.

Does anyone have a recommendation on a ceiling mount for the Pearl? Thanks.

I purchased the Cheif RPM-020 ceiling mount and I've been happy with it. Pretty easy to install. AVS sells them.

Thanks for the help!

Anyone use the Sony ImageDirector Gamma Control Software (that comes with the Pearl) yet?

Time for someone to post some settings to get us started! Jason Turk comes to mind :D

Daniel

I was going to say the same thing. This is either the weakest tweak thread ever or the Pearl does not need any :D

Thanks for this thread. For someone waiting for their Tryg AVS Pearl arriving next week, it's invaluable. Many thanks
Rob

Ok, here's a tweak question. How does on only one color (i.e. Red or Green or Blue) for viewing bars and tone?

I was going to say the same thing. This is either the weakest tweek thread ever or the Pearl does not need any :D

I'm sure there will be some good tweaks to surface. But to be honest, I found that setting color to LOW, lamp to LOW, DI to Auto 1, and Gamma to OFF gives a pleasing enough picture that I'm happy to wait 50 hours before busting out the light meter and getting more fancy. Hopefully, the biggest bulb changes will take place prior to when I get more serious about dialing it in.

For color uniformity problems with slight green shift

You can minimize by accessing

Panel Driver
Green = 85



SOWK, are you sure this is the right way to fix color continuity issues that are restricted to a certain region of the screen? Or does this setting control the entire panel? I would think there would be a 3d gamma setting that would allow you to manipulate difference screen regions, as others have reported on the SXRD RPTVs.

Might not be the right way, but it does help. It is for the entire panel

Might not be the right way, but it does help. It is for the entire panel

I wonder if it is beyond the abilities of the average A/V tweaker to figure out how to calibrate the 3D gamma without hosing up the projector. If this is do-able by the average person, maybe someone will eventually be able to post instructions. The ISF guys know how to do it, but they're not talking.

Were can i go to learn ISF certification in WI? how much is it to learn?

Were can i go to learn ISF certification in WI? how much is it to learn?

You can go here:
http://www.imagingscience.com/

To find out dates and locations of the seminars/classes. You would have to call to find out pricing. Don't know if they are going to be in/around Wisconsin.
Once you take the class, then you must take the certification test. After that it's practice, practice, and more practice. It's an art form. Most of the good ISF calibration guys have been at it for several years.
Good luck.

originally posted by gremmy:
I wonder if it is beyond the abilities of the average A/V tweaker to figure out how to calibrate the 3D gamma without hosing up the projector. If this is do-able by the average person, maybe someone will eventually be able to post instructions. The ISF guys know how to do it, but they're not talking.

If you are referring to the shading adjustments, I doubt that many (if any) ISF guys deal with this because it is so time consuming. If someone knows of one who does, please post. Also: other than William's camera and software, (and whatever equipment Sony has at the factory) I don't think there is a way to use intruments or automate the process. It all must be done by eye, and a very active thumb on the remote.

It can be done by the average Joe. I have done it myself (HS 51) for what I would estimate as a 20% improvement in uniformity. However, it takes hours. I would guess five hours for each "level" you need to adjust. Although there are 12 "levels", you should leave three of them untouched. It would be prohibitively expensive to pay an ISF tech to do this type of tedious labor.

Many of us are interested in this issue regarding the Pearl. Please enlighten us with any additional information.

Pip

I have been going crazy with searches and for the life of me I can't find what the maximum vertical lens shift is of the Pearl. Can anyone post a quick answer? Thanks.
I know it's in here somewhere but haven't found it yet.

I have been going crazy with searches and for the life of me I can't find what the maximum vertical lens shift is of the Pearl. Can anyone post a quick answer? Thanks.
I know it's in here somewhere but haven't found it yet.


65% of screen height from image centre. Calc is 8.0876*diag screen size+91=max vertical shift (mm)

AVI

Thanks. With a 123" diagonal screen which is 60" high does that mean I could have the projector 19.5" from the top of the screen? I'm not sure I understood your formula "Calc is 8.0876*diag screen size + 91?
Thanks.

I wonder if it is beyond the abilities of the average A/V tweaker to figure out how to calibrate the 3D gamma without hosing up the projector. If this is do-able by the average person, maybe someone will eventually be able to post instructions. The ISF guys know how to do it, but they're not talking.Here's link by Steve Smallcombe that describes how this feature worked for the Sony VPL-VW10HT, which had 28 fields. I assume that the description will apply to the Pearl, except maybe for the number of fields:

http://home.pacbell.net/steve367/gamma.html

Just for the sake of easy reference, I'll again insert that Cine4home.de Ruby review translated paragraph. Maybe someone who speaks German can provide a more comprehensible translation:

Note: In each case the user and/or specialist dealer has the possibility of adjusting possible Shading. In the service menu Sony integrated a special Shading menu: In 11 different gray tones separately the RGB color distribution can be adjusted in each case, this is altogether over 3000(!! in approximately 275 different pixels) Driving points. A zielkreuz marks the range which can be stopped. Obviously this menu for an automatic work calibration is conceived, but should change the Shading after 1000 or more operation hours, then it can be after-corrected with much patience.

Someone who knows otherwise please correct me or elaborate about the following. An enthusiast could use a sensor and software (see the calibration forum) to measure the affected fields' x,y,Y data, through the gamma 3D menu adjust RGB, one by one field by field so that each was as close as possible to D65 x=.313 and y=.329 and a reference Y (luminance). You would simply measure each affected fields' x,y,Y through 11 gray steps and adjust each for best match with an adjacent and reference field. Let's say 15 fields have some kind of color uniformity problem. You'd have 11 x 15 RGB adjustments for ideal RGB gamma tracking for each field. An ISF calibrator might be consulted, but it might be like asking him to do 165 calibrations, and more if there were interactions between adjacent fields requiring adjacent touchup adjustments. Maybe a calibrator would have speedier means of doing all this, but you'd better ask ahead of time.

It's been said that wm could offer software for a "prosumer" to help shading, but I do not know if he's even interested or actually able to do so with the Pearl. Such software might interface directly with the Pearl's factory adjustment menu to make the adjustment process a little easier than the enthusiast's procedure.

Dan

I don't know how much of this will translate to the Pearl, but I have a few tips that work well on the Ruby:

1. Set brightness and contrast at the default values. Sony selects values that work well with the DI in order to provide maximum video dynamic range. Lowering contrast and/or raising brightness will result in lower on/off CR.
2. Adjust brightness and contrast at the source, not at the projector! This is important in order to minimize any DI artifacts. With the new DI algorithms, this may not be true any longer, but I would still follow that rule in order to keep the video dynamic range maximized.
3. Sony's primaries are over saturated by default, but they look best that way! If you reduce the main color control, you can pull in all three primaries at the same time, but the colors will look drab and lifeless. Sony's default values look much better, IMHO.
4. If you want to change the hue or saturation of a single primary or secondary, use the RCP to gain individual control. The RCP is best used in conjunction with a sensor and software, but if you have an obvious problem (like greenish yellows, for example), you can probably correct it pretty well by eye.
5. The OOB colors do not look very accurate - at first (reddish skin tones, for example). Once the lamp has settled in with about 80 to 100 hours, the colors will look a LOT better, even without any calibration. Also, this is when the high CR of the unit will become obvious.

Let me remind you that these comments are for the Ruby and may not pertain to the Pearl - I really don't know as I don't own one, but after talking with Jason and reading his test results, the Pearl seems to behave in much the same fashion.

If Jason is willing to share his settings, I would use them! Even though lamps need to be calibrated individually, there is going to be a lot of color shifting taking place in the first several hundred hours, and Jason's settings, while they may not be perfect on YOUR projector, should at least provide you with a good starting point.

I don't know how much of this will translate to the Pearl, but I have a few tips that work well on the Ruby:

1. Set brightness and contrast at the default values. Sony selects values that work well with the DI in order to provide maximum video dynamic range. Lowering contrast and/or raising brightness will result in lower on/off CR.
2. Adjust brightness and contrast at the source, not at the projector! This is important in order to minimize any DI artifacts. With the new DI algorithms, this may not be true any longer, but I would still follow that rule in order to keep the video dynamic range maximized.
3. Sony's primaries are over saturated by default, but they look best that way! If you reduce the main color control, you can pull in all three primaries at the same time, but the colors will look drab and lifeless. Sony's default values look much better, IMHO.
4. If you want to change the hue or saturation of a single primary or secondary, use the RCP to gain individual control. The RCP is best used in conjunction with a sensor and software, but if you have an obvious problem (like greenish yellows, for example), you can probably correct it pretty well by eye.
5. The OOB colors do not look very accurate - at first (reddish skin tones, for example). Once the lamp has settled in with about 80 to 100 hours, the colors will look a LOT better, even without any calibration. Also, this is when the high CR of the unit will become obvious.

Let me remind you that these comments are for the Ruby and may not pertain to the Pearl - I really don't know as I don't own one, but after talking with Jason and reading his test results, the Pearl seems to behave in much the same fashion.

If Jason is willing to share his settings, I would use them! Even though lamps need to be calibrated individually, there is going to be a lot of color shifting taking place in the first several hundred hours, and Jason's settings, while they may not be perfect on YOUR projector, should at least provide you with a good starting point.

Have you noticed that some shades of red are leaning a little bit too much toward magenta? I personally have noticed this on all of the SXRD RPTVs, and now on the Pearl. I haven't done enough critical viewing of the Ruby to say whether or not the issue was there as well. But the problem is this: Fire Engine Red clearly has just a shade too much blue in it. Take a look at the Red Fire truck that's hanging off the bridge in an HD recording of the Fantastic Four and you'll see what I mean. The effect is also visible in the Porche that the Human Torch is driving. I started futzing around with the RCP trying to fix it, and I never really did. Does anyone have a fix for this? The RCP controls are a bit scary to me because there are no "numbers" so I cannot write down the default values.

I have only noticed this issue on HD content, so it may be related to the HD color space on this projector.

Bob, thanks for those key points based on your experience with the Ruby. I am going to use them with the Pearl. I think you're right and that they'll generally apply.

Dan

Have you noticed that some shades of red are leaning a little bit too much toward magenta?
You mean going by memory? :) My Ruby has long been calibrated several times now and the colors are right on the money. As far as I remember, the reds were a bit on the orangey side before calibration and skin tones looked as if everyone had a sunburn. Chances are that with a different lamp chemistry the amount and type of color inaccuracy will be different, but I wouldn't even concern myself with it until there were about 80 to 100 hours on the lamp.

originally posted by drapp1952:
Someone who knows otherwise please correct me or elaborate about the following. An enthusiast could use a sensor and software (see the calibration forum) to measure the affected fields' x,y,Y data, through the gamma 3D menu adjust RGB, one by one field by field so that each was as close as possible to D65 x=.313 and y=.329 and a reference Y (luminance). You would simply measure each affected fields' x,y,Y through 11 gray steps and adjust each for best match with an adjacent and reference field. Let's say 15 fields have some kind of color uniformity problem. You'd have 11 x 15 RGB adjustments for ideal RGB gamma tracking for each field. An ISF calibrator might be consulted, but it might be like asking him to do 165 calibrations, and more if there were interactions between adjacent fields requiring adjacent touchup adjustments. Maybe a calibrator would have speedier means of doing all this, but you'd better ask ahead of time.

In my experience, shading problems rarely occur in one place on the screen throughout all the IRE levels. Shading non-uniformity can vary greatly across different level gray fields - to the point of being inverse at certain levels. It is also my experience that if a given "level" has a shading issue, it will require adjustment of arroximately one third of the 273 adjustable points on that "level". You are correct that the points adjacent in space (above, below, and to the sides) as well as adjacent in "level" (darker and lighter) are affected and usually need to be adjusted also.

In theory you are correct. Your method of placing a sensor in all of these problem spots can be done, but it will take a very dedicated owner enthusiast to devote this amount of time to a projector. Before one even begins to adjust anything, one must enter the original data for 7,371 points. (9 levels x 273 places x RGB). As someone who has done this by eye, and done simple grayscale calibrations using a sensor, I can't imagine the amount of work involved in using a single point sensor to do this.

I hope Sony gets this right on the Pearl, but their track record with LCDs is inexcusably poor. I have seen well over a dozen Sony LCDs beginning with the 10HT, through the HS51 and they all have had some degree of very obvious shading problems. On all of the units I have seen, and from the reports on this forum, all the units seem to have the shading problems in the same place on the screen - indicating faulty equipment or procedures at the Sony factory. I have seen five Yamaha LCDs - none of which had any problems. If William can do this right at his place, and Yamaha can get it right at the factory, there is no good reason for Sony to consistently turn out unit after unit with problems in the same places.

I'm not a Sony basher. I have owned the 10HT, and the HS51. I hope to buy a resonably well shaded Pearl. But from a black and white film lover, Sony deserves some bashing on this issue.

Pip

After reading the "Gremmy's Pearl Review" thread, I am much more hopeful about the color uniformity of the Pearl.

Thanks for the great review gremmy!

Pip

After reading the "Gremmy's Pearl Review" thread, I am much more hopeful about the color uniformity of the Pearl.

Thanks for the great review gremmy!

Pip

I just got done watching North Country on HBO-HD, and the whole time I was amazed at the nearly perfect shading. There are lots of drab gray landscape shots -- perfectly uniform. And shots of the white ice rink -- perfectly uniform. And shots of that gray sky with white clouds, and of snowy fields -- all perfectly uniform.

The only way to even begin to see the very slight shading imperfection on this unit is to put in a black and white movie and deliberately spend all your time looking for it. It's that good.

Many times it's hard to tell if any projector is even worth turning on around here. AVS members love to nitpick everything.

I can assure you ever projector talked about in this forum is awesome

Thanks. With a 123" diagonal screen which is 60" high does that mean I could have the projector 19.5" from the top of the screen? I'm not sure I understood your formula "Calc is 8.0876*diag screen size + 91?
Thanks.


With a 123" diag screen the approx max vertical shift from lens centre to the centre line of the projected image is 42". The calc is from the Ruby manual and the Pearl has similar characteristics. This means you have max 42" of up or down (if the Pearl is mounted upside down) movement from the centre of the projected image and centre of the lens.

Dazzer

Pip
I expect that lcds, the projectors you have had, are more shading affected than sxrd. I am not saying the latter does not have issues. Member wm at avsforum has a shading tool for Ruby. Perfection is possible but it will cost you some money. If this tool will be ported to be used with Pearl is not known.

Thanks Dazzer. Originaly I did not notice the result of the calculation is in mm. That's what didn't make sense...

Hi guys, need some tweaking help.

just got my new pearl set-up,
using a 110" firehawk with ceiling mount, but had to be near max throw.
At night, picture is fantastic. Cant wait to get HD-DVD.

But need some more light for daytime viewing as I dont want to make the room pitch black.
The picture gets faded during the day.

Is there any good tweaks to increase briteness. Any chance a different bulb will ever be able to be placed?

Thanks in advance.

gremmy:

Thanks very much for your observations.

Pip

freddorn

I have a 106" firehawk also.

You are going to have get rid of some of the ambient light. Not necessarily all of it. Just try to get direct light going onto the screen. Lights that are close, windows and such. It will take a big part of your problem out.

Of course curtains would totally take care of the problem.

I just want to say lets not turn this into a Screen thread, again. Every other Pearl Thread is one already!

I want to keep my first post updated with all the Useful Tweaks or Calibrations, anyone have some I should post?

Hey guys I have had my pearl hooked up via component to my old trusty Denon 3800 dvd player set to 480p. I looks amazing. I recently hooked up a Toshiba HDA1 to the HDMI input. HD dvd's look absolutely unbelievable. Although im kinda torn on the SD dvd's. It appears that the denon via component connection seem to have a more snappy picture. Am i doing something wrong? Does the Toshiba not have as good an image via upconverting then the 4-5 year old denon? I was thinking about trying the Toshiba via component to see if maybe its an HDMI thing. I am not even sure that the picture is sharper via the HDMI connection. They are really close I can tell you. Anyone with a similar experience?

I want to keep my first post updated with all the Useful Tweaks or Calibrations, anyone have some I should post?

I've been scouring the other threads looking for some Pearl picture setting that someone posted post-calibration, and I cannot find them anywhere. 2 bucks and a biscuit to the first person who finds that post.

I also wonder if we could use some explanation of some of the PQ adjustments:
1) Gain
2) Bias
3) Whether or not it matters which custom-color template (User1, User2, User3) you start with (since all start of with gain/bias at zero but look *very* different).


And I for one am trying to figure out how to turn off the Pearl's whacky edge enhancement, which I believe is in the service menu somewhere. I'm getting some double outlining - pretty sure this can be disabled.

And I for one am trying to figure out how to turn off the Pearl's whacky edge enhancement, which I believe is in the service menu somewhere. I'm getting some double outlining - pretty sure this can be disabled.

I haven't seen this? What input using what as a source? Running test patterns into the PEARL from a 1080i source (HD-DVD home burned test patterns input from a Toshiba HD-DVD via HDMI) and setting sharpness to zero, I see no outlining at all.

I've been scouring the other threads looking for some Pearl picture setting that someone posted post-calibration, and I cannot find them anywhere. 2 bucks and a biscuit to the first person who finds that post.

I also wonder if we could use some explanation of some of the PQ adjustments:
1) Gain
2) Bias
3) Whether or not it matters which custom-color template (User1, User2, User3) you start with (since all start of with gain/bias at zero but look *very* different).


And I for one am trying to figure out how to turn off the Pearl's whacky edge enhancement, which I believe is in the service menu somewhere. I'm getting some double outlining - pretty sure this can be disabled.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=724156&page=13&pp=30
:) Post 385

I haven't seen this? What input using what as a source? Running test patterns into the PEARL from a 1080i source (HD-DVD home burned test patterns input from a Toshiba HD-DVD via HDMI) and setting sharpness to zero, I see no outlining at all.

I'm running all inputs via component, and I see the effect on all inputs. This is one of the things that they tested for in the Cine4Home review -- I can't remember the test results.

Is setting sharpness to zero really the recommendation? Does that destroy any "real"detail on an LCOS device?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=724156&page=13&pp=30
:) Post 385


Nice fine. I owe you 2 dollars and a biscuit! :D

I sent a PM to Erik asking for his color saturation, hue, and other settings.

gremmy,
can you post them when you get them?

gremmy,
can you post them when you get them?

Sure, no problem. Or maybe luck will lead Erik in here to deliver the info to all of us personally. :D

Can someone explain to me the definition of "gain" and "bias"?

One really KISS operational answer is bias controls affect low IREs and gain affects higher ones. There are, of course, more complete or advanced definitions.

http://www.poynton.com/notes/brightness_and_contrast/

Dan

Can someone explain to me the definition of "gain" and "bias"?

In general, if you understand algebra and the standard formula of a line (y=mx+b), the gain is the slope of the line (m) and the bias is the offset (b) when x is zero.

So if you have an error where all numbers are 5 too low, you would increase the bias to shift the line five spots higher.

If you have an error where the answer is correct at the zero crossing, but deviates steadily as you get farther away from it, then you want to adjust the gain.

If you have both errors, you adjust the zero corssing and then the gain.

In practice, it is not always that easy, because you cannot always get data at the zero crossing.

Also, somtimes the controls are not truly independent, and when you adjust the bias it slightly changes the gain, and/or vice versa.

Sometimes you go back and forth between two points, adjusting bias and gain until you approach a good enough solution.

I have very little experience with adjusting a pj, but that is what gain and bias are, in general. I just hoped that a very general overview of gain and bias might be helpful.

If it is not, don't worry about it. I am sure others can give very good descriptions of what to do with gain and bias in particular, when adjusting a display device.

Best Regards,
Doug

In general, if you understand algebra and the standard formula of a line (y=mx+b), the gain is the slope of the line (m) and the bias is the offset (b) when x is zero.

So if you have an error where all numbers are 5 too low, you would increase the bias to shift the line five spots higher.

If you have an error where the answer is correct at the zero crossing, but deviates steadily as you get farther away from it, then you want to adjust the gain.

If you have both errors, you adjust the zero corssing and then the gain.

In practice, it is not always that easy, because you cannot always get data at the zero crossing.

Also, somtimes the controls are not truly independent, and when you adjust the bias it slightly changes the gain, and/or vice versa.

Sometimes you go back and forth between two points, adjusting bias and gain until you approach a good enough solution.

I have very little experience with adjusting a pj, but that is what gain and bias are, in general. I just hoped that a very general overview of gain and bias might be helpful.

If it is not, don't worry about it. I am sure others can give very good descriptions of what to do with gain and bias in particular, when adjusting a display device.

Best Regards,
Doug

From a mathematics point of view, this makes sense to me. Without fancy meters and other gadgets, I probably am at the mercy of tinkering with other people's settings to see how they look. Thankfully, I can always reset to the defaults.

I'm running all inputs via component, and I see the effect on all inputs. This is one of the things that they tested for in the Cine4Home review -- I can't remember the test results.

Is setting sharpness to zero really the recommendation? Does that destroy any "real"detail on an LCOS device?

On the HDMI input, I don't see any loss of detail when setting sharpness to zero. I haven't tried the component input, yet.

i have found the component input to be very good on the pearl. can someone give me there experience component vs. hdmi?

From a mathematics point of view, this makes sense to me. Without fancy meters and other gadgets, I probably am at the mercy of tinkering with other people's settings to see how they look. Thankfully, I can always reset to the defaults.

I believe that you can use different patterns to determine what to adjust, but that is just what I have always supposed.

Best Regards,
Doug

I'm running all inputs via component, and I see the effect on all inputs. This is one of the things that they tested for in the Cine4Home review -- I can't remember the test results.

Is setting sharpness to zero really the recommendation? Does that destroy any "real"detail on an LCOS device?

From the Cine4Home.com Pearl review:

3.9.1 Signal processing

The signal processing must convert the incoming analog and digital picture signals, and if necessary convert the analog signal to digital before the signal processing. Annoying double outlines are to be avoided.

With analog feeds, the signal processing of the VW50 visibly tends to show double outlines (screen shot above), but they can be clearly improved using the Sharpness adjustment, without sacrificing sharpness. The results are intrinsically better when a digital signal is fed:

Here the double outlines are very subtle from the factory, however they can not be adjusted with a HDMI input signal. During movie operation, no annoying outlines are visible.

Dan

My Edit: Service menu adjustments might address remaining subtle double outlines with a HDMI input.

gremmy,
can you post them when you get them?


Drumroll Please...

And the answer is:

Erik left his color saturation, contrast, and hue at the default settings. 80, 50, 50.

From the Cine4Home.com Pearl review:

3.9.1 Signal processing

The signal processing must convert the incoming analog and digital picture signals, and if necessary convert the analog signal to digital before the signal processing. Annoying double outlines are to be avoided.

With analog feeds, the signal processing of the VW50 visibly tends to show double outlines (screen shot above), but they can be clearly improved using the Sharpness adjustment, without sacrificing sharpness. The results are intrinsically better when a digital signal is fed:

Here the double outlines are very subtle from the factory, however they can not be adjusted with a HDMI input signal. During movie operation, no annoying outlines are visible.

Dan

My Edit: Service menu adjustments might address remaining subtle double outlines with a HDMI input.

Hmmm. I don't recall seeing those outlines when feeding the Pearl 1080i from HD-DVD, or 1080p from an HTPC. I'll have to check again.

Can someone explain to me the definition of "gain" and "bias"?

I think you're probably asking in relation to R, G, B settings for each. On the Sony professional CRT on my desk, Bias is the low IRE part of the curve and Gain is the high IRE part of the curve. Now, that said, there is quite a bit of interaction between them. (Think curve, not shelf). I would presume that the Pearl uses the same language as the my reference display at work.

Very short answer: these are the controls that you use to set the grayscale.

Will this mount work with the Pearl? Mount (http://www.mountsandmore.com/Premier-Mounts-PBL-UM-PM1210.html)

Will this mount work with the Pearl? Mount (http://www.mountsandmore.com/Premier-Mounts-PBL-UM-PM1210.html)

From the link...

"Weight capacity: 25 lbs"

Isn't the Pearl 30 lbs?

Best Regards,
Doug

My baby weighed in at 24 pounds, 4 ounces.

Marc

Drumroll Please...

And the answer is:

Erik left his color saturation, contrast, and hue at the default settings. 80, 50, 50.That confirms recommendations to keep these controls where they are.

But how about color temp? What are his RGB bias and gain settings? (OK, all you calibration-savvy AVSers, what's wrong with these questions and which is most dangerous?)

Dan

My baby weighed in at 24 pounds, 4 ounces.

Marc

And was it delivered by a guy in brown shorts?

My baby weighed in at 24 pounds, 4 ounces.

Marc

that is a little too close to maximium for me.

I am more careful than most.

The chief mount that Jason sent ahs a max spec of 50 lbs.

Best Regards,
Doug

What are his RGB bias and gain settings? (OK, all you calibration-savvy AVSers, what's wrong with these questions and which is most dangerous?)

That one is the most dangerous. Particularly on a projector with a dynamic iris. It is not like adjusting a projector with a fixed iris. Unless you have the equipment and experience at adjusting grayscale, and are ready to learn new methods to do it with a dynamic iris, I suggest you leave it alone. In any event, knowing what worked for someone else, assuming it really worked for someone else, won't help you unless many other things (service level adjustments) are also adjusted the same on both projectors, the lamps are the same, age the same, etc.

gremmy,
what component are you feeding with these new settings? eg. dvd player? hdmi?

yeah those setting look amazing on the component input. for some reason the hdmi input seems slightly less saturated and a hair to the green yellow side. not sure why. possibly the different process going on.

yeah those setting look amazing on the component input. for some reason the hdmi input seems slightly less saturated and a hair to the green yellow side. not sure why. possibly the different process going on.

You mean after using the suggested settings, your HDMI performance was worse than before you started? Or it just didn't improve as much as the component input performance, but was still better than before the settings change?

color seem slightly different via hdmi. i dont know why. a slight green push overall

sorry to be obtuse, but do you mean the color is slightly different between component cf hdmi, or color via hdmi is different now (after the tweak) from where it was before and it has gotten worse (after the tweak)?

I don't know if the settings should be different for HDMI or not, but I can say one thing with absolute certainty. As far as I'm concerned, these settings are the definitive settings (even if it turns out to be restricted to component input). I just watched Dexter and Weeds on Showtime HD, and it was the very first "looking through a window" experience I've ever had on any display device in my home. Totally amazing.

Maybe we should add them to the original post?

Hmmm. Okay, I'll give them a try, once the machine starts being nice, again. For some reason, the left side of the screen now has a few bands of vertical lines. Should cycle the power and see if that helps!

Hmmm. Okay, I'll give them a try, once the machine starts being nice, again. For some reason, the left side of the screen now has a few bands of vertical lines. Should cycle the power and see if that helps!

Good lord. What the heck *is* that?

I hope it goes away! :eek:

Yeah, I'm in power-down mode, waiting for the lamp to cool before starting it up, again. If it's there when I power it back on, I'm going to get that sinking feeling that I should have bought from a local dealer...

What is the outcome? Man, I hope it was just a glitch. Boxing it up for at trip to TX will be pain and agony.

Yeah, I'm in power-down mode, waiting for the lamp to cool before starting it up, again. If it's there when I power it back on, I'm going to get that sinking feeling that I should have bought from a local dealer...

Powered it back up, and it appears to be okay. Not sure WHAT happened. Going to watch it for a while, now. instead of worrying about it.

Actually, tonight was supposed to be a shootout between the Da Lite High Power and a Optoma Graywolf II. So I went ahead and did that.

To place them on even footing, I used a ND2 filter while watching the Da Lite. And the Da Lite won: I don't know how but blacks were blacker *and* of course, highlights were much crisper/brighter. (And the more limited viewing cone is better for my room, where I can keep outside light from coming in, but because of the multi-use nature of the room, the light control -- in the form of dark wallks, floor, etc., is not ideal.... and the cone keeps the light away from those areas, and rejects it from those areas.)

That one is the most dangerous. Particularly on a projector with a dynamic iris. It is not like adjusting a projector with a fixed iris. Unless you have the equipment and experience at adjusting grayscale, and are ready to learn new methods to do it with a dynamic iris, I suggest you leave it alone. In any event, knowing what worked for someone else, assuming it really worked for someone else, won't help you unless many other things (service level adjustments) are also adjusted the same on both projectors, the lamps are the same, age the same, etc.

What are the considerations for grayscale adjustment on a DI projector? Is the issue the dynamic gamma curve that get uses when the iris closes down? Are there any rules of thumb for grayscale calibration with a DI?

Have a look at that sage:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6950377&&#post6950377

I don't know if the settings should be different for HDMI or not, but I can say one thing with absolute certainty. As far as I'm concerned, these settings are the definitive settings (even if it turns out to be restricted to component input). I just watched Dexter and Weeds on Showtime HD, and it was the very first "looking through a window" experience I've ever had on any display device in my home. Totally amazing.

Maybe we should add them to the original post?


AHHHHHHHHHH...

I had them in the first post from the day I made this thread, no one commented on them.

everyone was using low so I took them out.

You want me to put back in?


Yes the settings are for Componet.

Low color temp looks better for HDMI still.

-SOWK

AHHHHHHHHHH...

I had them in the first post from the day I made this thread, no one commented on them.

everyone was using low so I took them out.

You want me to put back in?


Yes the settings are for Componet.

Low color temp looks better for HDMI still.

-SOWK

My humble opinion is that we should Add Erik's settings back, including the fact that he used custom3, and that he left his other settings at the defaults, and that the end result was within 50 of the 65K standard 30 to 100 IRE (or whatever it was).

So now we just need someone to do a D65K calibration on the HDMI input and give us those settings so we can give them a whirl.

i am actually going to try a different hdmi cable later to see if that has anything to do with the difference in color. i would think it could have to do with the different processing going on verse component.

Both my component and hdmi runs are 50 feet. Do you think you can loose color over a hdmi run that long? i heard it works or it doesnt work.

Some people say yes, other people say no. Best thing to do is test it for yourself, and see. (In my own tests, I cannot see a difference between a 3 foot HDMI cable and a 35 foot HDMI cable, once I made sure neither had obvious errors like sparklies or HDCP sync problems.)

Both my component and hdmi runs are 50 feet. Do you think you can loose color over a hdmi run that long? i heard it works or it doesnt work.

It should work or not. 50' is a long run for HDMI, so 'not' is a possibility. That's how digital data works.

If folks hypothesize otherwise, I invite them to prove it with a colorimeter.

Have a look at that sage:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6950377&&#post6950377

Awesome, thank you.

I only wish I had a tool that was accurate at 1 IRE!

thanks. im gonna run a shorter cable later to see if there is a difference. otherwise the 50ft run works great. what do you loose in a run that long. no one seems to be able to give me a correct answer. color fidelity? or do you just get missing information like sparkles and hits

thanks. im gonna run a shorter cable later to see if there is a difference. otherwise the 50ft run works great. what do you loose in a run that long. no one seems to be able to give me a correct answer. color fidelity? or do you just get missing information like sparkles and hits

I recently ran a 50' monoprice (the more expensive version) HDMI cable with no problem. I've also used RAM (but at twice the price). Both worked great.

Yeah my 50foot calbe is the more expensive monoprice one too

What are the considerations for grayscale adjustment on a DI projector? Is the issue the dynamic gamma curve that get uses when the iris closes down? Are there any rules of thumb for grayscale calibration with a DI?
Yes, the complication is the dynamic gamma vs dynamic iris aperture. Someone already posted a link to my earlier comments on calibrating the dynamic iris of the Ruby.

I caution anyone reading this thread to stay out of the service menu unless you really understand what you are doing. If you think you can simply write down the service menu settings to restore them later if you don't like your "tweaks" - that will not work in the Ruby, and may not work in the Pearl (I haven't checked that yet). You could mess up your projector to the point that it will require a trip back to Sony to put it right again. A professional calibrator will not be able to fix some of the things you can mess up in the service menu.

I'm concerned that this thread may lead some users in a wrong direction. So here are my comments on what has been discussed, and then I will shut up and stay out of this thread.

Do not change the Panel Driver gains. That is not the way to fix color uniformity issues. You can not simply transfer calibration settings from a calibrated projector (assuming it was actually calibrated correctly to begin with) to an uncalibrated projector. In general, you can not adjust color saturation and hue correctly on this projector using color filters or looking at one primary panel. RGB gain and bias adjustments are modal and must be adjusted relative to iris mode. Normal gain and bias adjustment procedures for non-dyanamic iris projectors will not work on this projector. Grayscale is not calibrated by adjusting for a constant or near-constant color temperature on any projector. HDMI (or DVI) cable length does not affect color.

Grayscale is not calibrated by adjusting for a constant or near-constant color temperature on any projector.
Hi Greg,

This statement confuses me (just when I thought I was understanding things a little :) ). If grayscale calibration is not accomplished by adjusting for constant color temperature, what is it adjusted for?
You can not simply transfer calibration settings from a calibrated projector (assuming it was actually calibrated correctly to begin with) to an uncalibrated projector.
Understood, but wouldn't the settings of a properly calibrated Ruby likely be closer to accurate than the Sony defaults?

Okay, here are some settings for everyone. Before using them, please see Greg's comments. The Pearl was calibrated using the Progressive Labs system and an Accupel. The PJ has 15 hours on it. It is still very early in the bulb life and I will do a full calibration at closer to 100 hours. I just could not wait to look at where the PJ spec'd out. I did not get into the service menu and do not recommend it. My numbers are easily accessed in the user menu. Also, I calibrated using the Window/Field combination method I used on Rubies and HS-51s. The DI seems much more stable on the Pearl though and I feel you could calibrate using only Windows.

A few notes about color. I played with saturation on the Pearl and found 44-45 to be the best setting. It pulled blue, cyan and magenta to very close to the proper coordinates. Red, yellow and green are still a good bit outside the triangle but still on the axis they should be. Green is the worst offender though. Lowering saturation more than 44 just makes the picture too dull. Try 45 and see if you like it. For On/Off CR I got a little over 9600:1. Ansi came in at 262:1 in my room which is very dark and light controlled but not perfect as Darin's would be. Finally, I would say the Pearl is very easy to calibrate. My unit came in at an 6494K from 30-100IRE. The DE was less than 1 across the full spectrum. I was very pleased.

Gain
R:5
G:0
B:6
Bias
R:-3
G:0
B:-1

Have fun.

A few notes about color. I played with saturation on the Pearl and found 44-45 to be the best setting. It pulled blue, cyan and magenta to very close to the proper coordinates. Red, yellow and green are still a good bit outside the triangle but still on the axis they should be. Green is the worst offender though. Lowering saturation more than 44 just makes the picture too dull. Try 45 and see if you like it. For On/Off CR I got a little over 9600:1. Ansi came in at 262:1 in my room which is very dark and light controlled but not perfect as Darin's would be. Finally, I would say the Pearl is very easy to calibrate. My unit came in at an 6494K from 30-100IRE. The DE was less than 1 across the full spectrum. I was very pleased.

Gain
R:5
G:0
B:6
Bias
R:-3
G:0
B:-1

Have fun.

Thanks for posting. I suppose this somewhat confirms the differences between units, since the other posted calibration figures were a bit different (see below) except that changing the COLOR value, and starting somewhere other than Custom 3 might impact things, too, even if the projectors were exactly the same, prior to calibration.

The Pearl's "Low" color temperature setting is already very close to D65 out of the box. It was measured by ColorFacts at 6490K, only about 1 or 2 % too green.

To calibrate to D65, we used the "Custom3" setting (which starts out similar to "Low") and ended up with the following.
Gain: R = 1, G = -2, B = 3
Bias: R = -4, G = 8, B = 0
After calibration, it was within 50K of 6500K from 30 IRE to 100 IRE.

Hi Greg,

This statement confuses me (just when I thought I was understanding things a little :) ). If grayscale calibration is not accomplished by adjusting for constant color temperature, what is it adjusted for?

Understood, but wouldn't the settings of a properly calibrated Ruby likely be closer to accurate than the Sony defaults?
I said I was going to stay out of this thread. But I don't want to confuse you Bob.

Grayscale must be calibrated to D65, i.e. minimize the dE or dC variance from D65. Color temperature (say 6504K) is a line. It could be 20 dE from D65, or 0 dE from D65. Talking about the grayscale being 50K from 6500K means absolutely nothing.

As to your 2nd question, maybe or maybe not. Assuming someone calibrated a projector the same way you want it calibrated (same dE limits vs grayscale, headroom, etc.) and they really did it right (the biggest variable), then it depends on how consistent, but systematically in error the factory calibration is for various performance parameters. If the factory error was always the same for each parameter, then if you carefully moved just the "right" set of calibration settings between the projectors you would probably move the calibration in the right direction. But in my experience factory calibrations are not consistent in all parameters. They (meaning manufacturers collectively, not Sony) often calibrate grayscale at one level and then use default values or default offsets to compute other calibration settings. In that case the factory calibration usually doesn't produce very systematic errors. Ignoring the issue of lamp age differences between the projectors (which of course you can't really ignore) you still have the problem that the user settings are offsets of the factory settings, they are not absolute values. So even if you move in the right direction (you may also overshoot moving the right direction and end farther away then you started), you still won't be calibrated by copying user settings. Enough on this topic.

Okay, here are some settings for everyone. Before using them, please see Greg's comments. The Pearl was calibrated using the Progressive Labs system and an Accupel. The PJ has 15 hours on it. It is still very early in the bulb life and I will do a full calibration at closer to 100 hours. I just could not wait to look at where the PJ spec'd out. I did not get into the service menu and do not recommend it. My numbers are easily accessed in the user menu. Also, I calibrated using the Window/Field combination method I used on Rubies and HS-51s. The DI seems much more stable on the Pearl though and I feel you could calibrate using only Windows.

A few notes about color. I played with saturation on the Pearl and found 44-45 to be the best setting. It pulled blue, cyan and magenta to very close to the proper coordinates. Red, yellow and green are still a good bit outside the triangle but still on the axis they should be. Green is the worst offender though. Lowering saturation more than 44 just makes the picture too dull. Try 45 and see if you like it. For On/Off CR I got a little over 9600:1. Ansi came in at 262:1 in my room which is very dark and light controlled but not perfect as Darin's would be. Finally, I would say the Pearl is very easy to calibrate. My unit came in at an 6494K from 30-100IRE. The DE was less than 1 across the full spectrum. I was very pleased.

Gain
R:5
G:0
B:6
Bias
R:-3
G:0
B:-1

Have fun.

Did you start with Custom 3?

Grayscale must be calibrated to D65, i.e. minimize the dE or dC variance from D65. Color temperature (say 6504K) is a line. It could be 20 dE from D65, or 0 dE from D65. Talking about the grayscale being 50K from 6500K means absolutely nothing.



What Greg is talking about is the isotemperature line that extends on either side of the D65 point. The whole line is "6500 Kelvin", but it is in fact a very wide (infinitely wide) range of points that can all be measured as 6500 Kelvin, and none of which will make your video right, except for 1. :=)

Starting outside of the video space, if you shine a D65 light on a kodak gray card, you now have a D65 reference white. Everything else is just trying to calibrate to that point. If I'm folllowing Greg, the difficulty is that the dynamic iris makes this particularly challenging and (from the link to the ruby thread) requires iteratively calibrating at various iris settings in order to acheive an accurate grayscale at the different iris settings (since the iris settings adjust the gamma dynamically to avoid darkening the whole image). It makes my head hurt.

The alternative is to just turn the DI off. :=)

Ok, thanks, Greg. That clears things up nicely...:)

If you think you can simply write down the service menu settings to restore them later if you don't like your "tweaks" - that will not work in the Ruby, and may not work in the Pearl (I haven't checked that yet). Greg, are you writing about settings with deifferent values for each iris mode or something different?

Well, it's clear now that I don't know a thing about calibration, not that this was ever really in question. I think I may go back to using the factory "low" setting and give this thread a rest.

The fact is that the first RGB gain/bias settings that I tried (and fell in love with for about a day) turned out to be too green, and also ended up destroying contrast by elevating black levels in dark scenes. So while I was singing the praises of these settings 4 hours ago, I've now decided that I pretty much hate them. And if that's not proof enough that no one should ever listen to my advice regarding color and grayscale calibration, I don't know what is.

I'm going to pay for a real calibration in a few months.

In the meantime, I have also tried out the second set of calibrated RGB gain/bias settings. These settings don't destroy blacks in dark scenes, and they really do solve my "magenta reds" problem (which I've seen on every SXRD RPTV OOTB), but these are just a temp fix until I can either afford a calibration or decide I no longer care, whichever comes first.

What Greg is talking about is the isotemperature line that extends on either side of the D65 point. The whole line is "6500 Kelvin", but it is in fact a very wide (infinitely wide) range of points that can all be measured as 6500 Kelvin, and none of which will make your video right, except for 1. :=)

Starting outside of the video space, if you shine a D65 light on a kodak gray card, you now have a D65 reference white. Everything else is just trying to calibrate to that point. If I'm folllowing Greg, the difficulty is that the dynamic iris makes this particularly challenging and (from the link to the ruby thread) requires iteratively calibrating at various iris settings in order to acheive an accurate grayscale at the different iris settings (since the iris settings adjust the gamma dynamically to avoid darkening the whole image). It makes my head hurt.

The alternative is to just turn the DI off. :=)

Does this mean that gamma has to be readjusted in the service menu every time a person makes a change to the user gain/bias controls?

Sorry to "slightly" hi-jack this thread guys, but I'm trying to find an on-line copy of the VPL-VW50 user manual. I can't find it on any Sony site. I'm mainly after info on the lens, eg zoom, shift, throw etc. Is is similar to the VPL-VW100? I have PJCalc which covers the VW100, but can't find anything on the new unit.
Can anyone please help!
Regards,
Michael.

Does this mean that gamma has to be readjusted in the service menu every time a person makes a change to the user gain/bias controls?

I think that mucking with gain and bias can change the gamma curve. i.e. if you bump up the low ire stuff but a big chunk, you've effectively bumped up the bottom of your gamma curve. Maybe. :=) I think it might depend by how much you tweaked, and the display's internal processing.

Allright so i did a few test tonight. I hooked up my dvd player to a short hdmi connection just to make sure i wasnt loosing any color from the 50 foot run. Both cables look identical. Tried both hdmi connections on the projector and they too look the same. I still couldnt figure out why my denon 3800 component dvd player looked better then the HDA1 via hdmi. So i started playing with the denon and switched it from progressive output to interlaced output. Well maybe i am naive, but for some reason the color is alot more saturated when it is set to progressive. Why would this be? When i set it to interlaced, the color output almost exactly matchs the toshiba via hdmi. really weird. oh well. i still think i like the denon via progressive since it tend to have more punch to the colors even though they are probably all wrong.

One tweak I recommend is to set the gamut to normal rather than wide. Colors will intially seem pale. Live with it a while, though, and you might find the colors more natural and truer to the source material. Edit: Greg Rogers recommends wide color mode with slight red reduction in intensity or brightness in the RCP.

Otherwise I have not altered any setting from default so far. Color temp is on low, auto iris 1 setting. I may give some calibration a try after the bulb has settled in but see no reason to do so now, and am especially leery after reading Greg's comments about permanent changes resulting from doing so, though I believe he is talking about service menu level tinkering.

Color nonuniformity is there but minor, blue-green on the left and pinkish on the right, seen most clearly at higher IRE white.

I think I may have lucked out as far as convergence with maybe half a pixel red vertical in one or two corners. It really is a non-factor.

At this point I find relatively little to criticize in this projector. Very impressive.

Dan

I was just wondering why the colors would change when going from 480i to 480p. Does the color space change on the dvd player or something?

I was just wondering why the colors would change when going from 480i to 480p. Does the color space change on the dvd player or something?I never calibrated Sony PJ, but as far as I remeber Sony XBR CRTs have different service menu color processing settings for 480i, 480p and 1080i.

I was just wondering why the colors would change when going from 480i to 480p. Does the color space change on the dvd player or something?
Depending on the player/pj combo, you may have to contend with colorspace (HDTV/NTSC) and black level setup(0/7.5) issues as you go from interlaced to progressive.

yeah thats what it seems like. maybe different color space. Should i be feeding this projector 480i or 480p? does anyone one which unit does the better conversion?

yeah thats what it seems like. maybe different color space. Should i be feeding this projector 480i or 480p? does anyone one which unit does the better conversion?

In my particular set-up, the black levels and colors are much better when I feed 480p from my Faroudja-chip based Denon DVD player. When I let the Pearl do the upconversion, the picture has elevated BL and looks washed out.

my black levels seem good via 480i, but the colors are slightly washed out too. not sure why. when i set to 480p the colors are more punchy

Guys:

Are you guys adjusting the brightness control when switching back and forth between 480i and 480p? Remember that 480i requires a different black level (brightness setting) than other resolutions. Assuming your sources are outputting correct levels, the "brightness" on the Pearl should be about 30 for 480i, and about 50 for all other resolutions.

Use a test disc to set black level at each resolution. Once you set it, the projector should remember the brightness setting for each resolution, and you shouldn't have to bother with it again.

Pip

I did start with Custom 3. I also did not mention but gamma came in at 2.31 for the Off setting.

i will do that. my projector setting are staying the same, but i didnt realize that when the dvd player outputs 480i or 480p, each has different black levels. thanks

i will do that. my projector setting are staying the same, but i didnt realize that when the dvd player outputs 480i or 480p, each has different black levels. thanks
As I mentioned above it depends on the player/pj
480i NTSC is supposed to have black setup (7.5IRE for black)
PAL does not have setup (0IRE for black)
HDTV does not have setup (0IRE for black)
480p is tricky some players output with setup, some don't. Some pjs expect setup, some don't. Most players/pj have options to specify setup or not.

The NTSC or HDTV color space issue is yet another problem. :)

yeah my denon has a black setting lighter/darker. when im on 480p i set it to darker otherwies the blacks are lifted. when i output 480i the blacks are not lifted however the color is less saturated. i think something else is going on. when i play the hda1 through hdmi 480p or 1080i the colors are the same as the denon at 480i. who knows. maybe some sort of processing think in the denon at 480p. it does not look like a black level shift though. (0ire or 7.5 setup)

Greg, are you writing about settings with deifferent values for each iris mode or something different?
In the Ruby service menu there are some parameters that have multiple values depending on iris mode (and perhaps other modes - I don't recall now, it's been a year since my Ruby review), i.e. the service menu shows a different value for the same parameter depending on the projector's other settings. So if you write down a setting in one mode, and then change settings in another mode, the original factory value that you wrote down may not apply to the mode you are changing. Hence, it is easy to think you have a record of the original factory settings but it is actually incomplete and you can't get back to the factory setting. Or it is easy to get confused and put the factory setting for one mode into a different mode.

As I already said, I don't know if this issue exists with the Pearl service menus. I haven't had time (nor will I soon) to look for it. It was just a caution about one possible way to mess up a factory service menu and not even realize you had done it. Obviously another way is to simply not write down a factory setting and then you can't restore it. Another easy way to mess up a service menu is to change a setting that seems to help one issue, but it really changes another parameter, or even interacts with other settings. If you don't know exactly what a service item does, or you don't know how to adjust other parameters that it may affect, you end up "fixing" one thing and messing up something else that you won't discover until after you forgot what you did that messed it up. For these kinds of reasons, and many more, I always recommend that you stay out of the service menu. There are items in there that a professional calibrator will not be able to readjust if you mess them up. Some items require access to test points internal to the projector. Some items require special equipment or fixtures only available at the factory. Some items are simply too time consuming for a calibrator to adjust manually. Some items are simply not explained adequately in any service documentation available to a calibrator.

Most projectors provide user level offset adjustments (like the user level gain and bias adjustments on the Pearl) to allow you to adjust things like grayscale and not mess up any of the factory adjustments. Many times they have zero default values, or a reset function, that allows you to easily restore the user level adjustment if you change it. It is extremely rare that service menus store a backup copy of the factory settings.

As I mentioned above it depends on the player/pj
480i NTSC is supposed to have black setup (7.5IRE for black)
PAL does not have setup (0IRE for black)
HDTV does not have setup (0IRE for black)
480p is tricky some players output with setup, some don't. Some pjs expect setup, some don't. Most players/pj have options to specify setup or not.

I wonder if this explains why, on my HTPC output direct to the Pearl at 1080p60 or 1080p24 I see:

HDTV content (as home-recorded TS files) looks perfect (correct black level) played back via TheaterTek

but

SD content (like a DVD) played by via TheaterTek has a raised black level, and I need to adjust the Pearl black control

even though both are being output at HD resolution? One would think that something else is going on, but the symptoms are surprisingly similar.... and I did not notice this phenomena at all with my HTPC setup the same feeding into my old projector....

Here's link by Steve Smallcombe that describes how this feature worked for the Sony VPL-VW10HT, which had 28 fields. I assume that the description will apply to the Pearl, except maybe for the number of fields:

http://home.pacbell.net/steve367/gamma.html

Just for the sake of easy reference, I'll again insert that Cine4home.de Ruby review translated paragraph. Maybe someone who speaks German can provide a more comprehensible translation:

Note: In each case the user and/or specialist dealer has the possibility of adjusting possible Shading. In the service menu Sony integrated a special Shading menu: In 11 different gray tones separately the RGB color distribution can be adjusted in each case, this is altogether over 3000(!! in approximately 275 different pixels) Driving points. A zielkreuz marks the range which can be stopped. Obviously this menu for an automatic work calibration is conceived, but should change the Shading after 1000 or more operation hours, then it can be after-corrected with much patience.

Someone who knows otherwise please correct me or elaborate about the following. An enthusiast could use a sensor and software (see the calibration forum) to measure the affected fields' x,y,Y data, through the gamma 3D menu adjust RGB, one by one field by field so that each was as close as possible to D65 x=.313 and y=.329 and a reference Y (luminance). You would simply measure each affected fields' x,y,Y through 11 gray steps and adjust each for best match with an adjacent and reference field. Let's say 15 fields have some kind of color uniformity problem. You'd have 11 x 15 RGB adjustments for ideal RGB gamma tracking for each field. An ISF calibrator might be consulted, but it might be like asking him to do 165 calibrations, and more if there were interactions between adjacent fields requiring adjacent touchup adjustments. Maybe a calibrator would have speedier means of doing all this, but you'd better ask ahead of time.

It's been said that wm could offer software for a "prosumer" to help shading, but I do not know if he's even interested or actually able to do so with the Pearl. Such software might interface directly with the Pearl's factory adjustment menu to make the adjustment process a little easier than the enthusiast's procedure.

Dan


Drapp, I've been thinking about this post, above. It seems that I do have a bit of discoloration in the high IREs. I never noticed it before (except for the time I accidentally mistook the "light corners" issue for a color issue), and based on my previous mistake, I was very cautious to make sure I did have some white-field issues before posting this time. Anyway, my biggest problems seem to be in the area of 80 and 100 IRE. Most of the time, this is hardly noticeable, but I am in my OCD super-tweaker mode right now, so I'm noticing all of this stuff. The first time I really noticed it was Friday night, staring at the In-Demand HD screen, which is supposed to be all white -- and it was clearly pink and green. Even my wife saw it. On regular content, this isn't really an issue. In fact, after pushing a tiny bit of blue into my whites, it's practically gone.

But anyway, I am hoping that someone can tell me where I can find a set of DVDs that has full field IRE levels (not windows)? I will use these to tweak the 3D gamma (ever so gently and carefully) by eye. But I don't know where to find the test screens I need. Cany anyone help?

Also, does anyone see any problems with using full-field IRE screens to tweak the 3D gamma? (Yes, I know I could hose the projector up if I'm not careful -- I'm just wondering if this is the preferred technique in the absence of sophisticated test equipment.)

Ok Guys here are the setting i found to work great on my Pearl.
cinema mode

Contrast = 80
Brightness = 55
Color = 50
Tint = 50
Sharpness = 0
Lamp = Low
Gamma = Off
Black Enhancement = Off
Iris = Auto 1 / Recommended
Color = Custom 3

And Erik's Setting
Gain: R = 1, G = -2, B = 3
Bias: R = -4, G = 8, B = 0

It seems to have a great balance when you add in the gain/bias settings. Also it appears that my brightness needs to be at 55 in order the get pluge where it should be. It seems at the factory default of 50 the blacks are a little crushed and you loosed shadow detail. O well, just wanted to give you guys my setting.
Todd

Ok Guys here are the setting i found to work great on my Pearl.
cinema mode

Contrast = 80
Brightness = 55
Color = 50
Tint = 50
Sharpness = 0
Lamp = Low
Gamma = Off
Black Enhancement = Off
Iris = Auto 1 / Recommended
Color = Custom 3

And Erik's Setting
Gain: R = 1, G = -2, B = 3
Bias: R = -4, G = 8, B = 0

It seems to have a great balance when you add in the gain/bias settings. Also it appears that my brightness needs to be at 55 in order the get pluge where it should be. It seems at the factory default of 50 the blacks are a little crushed and you loosed shadow detail. O well, just wanted to give you guys my setting.
Todd

Are your black levels the same once you use Erik's settings? I found that all that green added to the bias lifted blacks and killed contrast in dark mixed scenes.

I didnt notice that. I noticed that Erik's setting helped out flesh tones a bit, but didnt notice changes to the contrast. i will check. I watche underworld 2 last night and it looked amazing. It is a very dark movie which the projector rendering extremely well.
Todd

Where do I find the Gain / Bias RGB settings? Service menu only?

Where do I find the Gain / Bias RGB settings? Service menu only?

It's in the normal user menu. Go to color temp --> User3 -->

This will allow you to adjust the RGB gain/bias from the factory defaults for the "low" color temperature. The same can be done with User2 and User1, which are set to the Middle and High color temps by default.

What is the difference between Normal and Wide color settings? I've noticed some people recommending using the Normal color setting, but doesn't HD use a wider color spectrum? I'm just curious as I am unable to decide which one I like better. Thanks in advance!

What is the difference between Normal and Wide color settings? I've noticed some people recommending using the Normal color setting, but doesn't HD use a wider color spectrum? I'm just curious as I am unable to decide which one I like better. Thanks in advance!

Judging from the manual, "Normal" is the 709 colorspace. This is closer to reference. "Wide" is Sony's special sauce color space.

Sage,

I was running wide color and on a couple of movies on shots of explosions or the sun you would have a bright red distinct ring. It was really a bizarre looking artifact. I have since turned the wide color to normal and no ring.

How do you exit the service mode?

How do you exit the service mode?

Just do E - E - L - E again.

originally posted by gremmy
Also, does anyone see any problems with using full-field IRE screens to tweak the 3D gamma? (Yes, I know I could hose the projector up if I'm not careful -- I'm just wondering if this is the preferred technique in the absence of sophisticated test equipment.)

I know that Avia has full fields. I assume that DVE does as well , but I don't own it. A couple of suggestions based upon the HS51 (The Pearl may operate differently.):

Levels 0, 1, and 11 probably have everything set to zeros from the factory. I would leave those levels alone. If you see problems in your 100 IRE field, I would adjust level 10, not 11.

Also - every gamma setting throughout the projector will probably have the green set at 0. I would leave green alone, and do all of your adjusting with red and blue.

A very useful way for checking the helpfullness of the factory shading settings, and your own changes is to use Bytehoven's secret on/off switch. This switch actually toggles all of the shading adjustments on or off. This highlights exactly where problems are, and gives you some direction to work towards. For example: on my projector, toggling on and off dramatically showed that my factory settings were helping in the lower IREs, but were doing harm in the upper IREs. This enabled me to bump the low IRE factory settings further in the same direction, while adjusting the high IRE settings in the opposite direction - or more towards nuetral. This switch is located somewhere in the factory menu. I can't remember where. If no one chimes in you may have to do some searching in the HS51 and /or Ruby threads to find it.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Pip

PIP...

On the 51 & 51A , this on/off control for the gamma shading section was located as follows

DISPLAY ENGINE
LINE 04 DE/UF SW = (1) ... Changing to (0) turned the gamma shading OFF.

Turning this OFF did wonders on the HS51, but the 51A continues to look better with the gamma shading turned ON.

If the pearl is the same as the HS51/51A, when in the gamma shading section, the projector will display it's own full frame fields and not a signal from the DVD or other source. Certainly the DVD source would be nice to check against the projector fields provided after adjustments are made.

One other thing... when going into the 51A gamma shading menu, the full frame fields were a whacked out color temp, not anywhere near 6500k. It makes it a little difficult to make gamma adjustments. This was not the case on the 51. You should know very quickly if the Pearl is like the 51 or 51A in this regard.

Happy tweaking.

RJ
...

Just do E - E - L - E again.

Thanks.

I switched to the normal color setting and like it better. After comparing the two settings during the game tonight, I felt the wide pumps up the colors too much.

I just got my Pearl this week as a replacement for my Samsung 710. I am a newbie when it comes to calibration and I have an issue I hope others can help me to understand. Currently, I am just trying to work thru the contrast and brightness settings. I started out with the Pearl in Cinema mode, lamp low, iris in the default setting. I believe the default contrast and brightness settings are 80 and 50. I have the Digital Video Essentials DVD. I started with the default settings and attempted to adjust them using DVE. It was my understanding that setting brightness using DVE I needed to move brightness so that the outside vertical black bars (the darkest ones) in the pluge were no longer visible. I need to go down to a brightness setting of 35 with the contrast at 80. The 35 brightness setting is far below what I have read from others. I know that everybody's projector is different so there will be some variation. I am using a 110" Firehawk (1.25 gain) screen and the projector is located about 14' from the screen. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

What DVD player, and what "black" or "brightness" settings on the DVD player?

I need to go down to a brightness setting of 35 with the contrast at 80. The 35 brightness setting is far below what I have read from others. I know that everybody's projector is different so there will be some variation.
You are probably feeding the projector a signal with setup. If so, there is nothing wrong.

Just set up my Pearl and wanted to thank all for the information on this and related threads. It was and is extremely helpful. I am now in the process of basic calibration with Avia and DVE. Has anyone had any experience with the softwear that was included with my unit, entitled "Image Director"? This cd apparently is primarily useful for recalibrating grey scale. I have not seen any specific mention of it or its uses in previous posts. Thanks for your thoughts and/or experience with it.

Just set up my Pearl and wanted to thank all for the information on this and related threads. It was and is extremely helpful. I am now in the process of basic calibration with Avia and DVE. Has anyone had any experience with the softwear that was included with my unit, entitled "Image Director"? This cd apparently is primarily useful for recalibrating grey scale. I have not seen any specific mention of it or its uses in previous posts. Thanks for your thoughts and/or experience with it.

I'm curious about this too. I don't have a computer that can easily be hooked up to my Pearl, so I haven't bothered with it yet. Might be interesting to see what little nuggets are on there.

I think that his may be the same or a very similar cd as the one that initially shipped with the HS-51. I will plug it into the computer tonite and take a look. I would think someone out there may be familiar with its use and it may (if we are all lucky) address some of the concerns voiced here and on other threads about the inability of the other user-available controls to adjust color space or grey scale. Who knows, but it may be worth a try!

I think that his may be the same or a very similar cd as the one that initially shipped with the HS-51. I will plug it into the computer tonite and take a look. I would think someone out there may be familiar with its use and it may (if we are all lucky) address some of the concerns voiced here and on other threads about the inability of the other user-available controls to adjust color space or grey scale. Who knows, but it may be worth a try!
I just took a look at it, although I did not have it hooked up to the projector. This is gamma adjustment software. But I do not think 3D gamma is included. Now that would be cool.

Levels 0, 1, and 11 probably have everything set to zeros from the factory. I would leave those levels alone. If you see problems in your 100 IRE field, I would adjust level 10, not 11.


Pip

What kind of evil things happen if I adjust at the highest or lowest level? What if that's where my issue is? I see it mostly on very bright sky scenes.

For anyone who wants to know if they have the same problem, watch the movie Jarhead. Report back.

Don't have jarhead, but I will rent it soon. Would I have noticed it in Aeon Flux?

Best Regards,
Doug

Don't have jarhead, but I will rent it soon. Would I have noticed it in Aeon Flux?

Best Regards,
Doug

I'm not sure. I haven't watched that one on the Pearl. On Jarhead, it's all the shots of that clear, white sky that showcase the color issues.

originally posted by gremmy :
What kind of evil things happen if I adjust at the highest or lowest level? What if that's where my issue is? I see it mostly on very bright sky scenes.

I don't know. But back when I was adjusting my HS51, I recall reading on this forum that at least with the Sony LCDs, all reported units had levels 0, 1, and 11 set to all zeros. In spite of that, I tried to fix my low IRE problems by adjusting levels 0 and 1. Nothing evil happened, but nothing good either. I had much better luck adjusting levels 2 and 3. I wound up zeroing out everything in levels 0 and 1 again. When I got around to adjusting the high IREs, I never bothered with level 11. I started with level 10 and worked down. That seemed to work.

It's just my experience, and what Iv'e read here. I'm sure there are others who know much more about it than I. Posts from those who have played with it are few and far between. It's such a tedious process that few tackle it.

Please report your experience.

Pip

What DVD player, and what "black" or "brightness" settings on the DVD player?

I have the Denon 1920 DVD player. I didn't know the DVD player had a black level adjustment. The DVD player was set at the default setting to lighten the dark scenes. I changed the setting to leave the black level as is and re-calibrated with DVE. Contrast was left at 80 and the brightness is now at 52 with my Pearl setup. Thanks for the help.

That's interesting. Most reviewers say the lighter setting (7.5 ire = black) is "correct", but since you may be upconverting, the projector may think it's getting an HD signal, where 0 IRE = black.... in which case the change you made is necessary, and would explain why it looks better.

Or, at least, that is the way I understand it. Hopefully someone can explain better!

I understand from reviews of the Pearl that RGB gain and bais are adjustable from the user menu without accessing the service menu. I may be just having a bad day, but I have not fund it in the user menu or the handbook. Can anyone enlighten me on whether, in fact, gain and bias can be adjusted from the user menu and if so, where to find it? Thanks.

I understand from reviews of the Pearl that RGB gain and bais are adjustable from the user menu without accessing the service menu. I may be just having a bad day, but I have not fund it in the user menu or the handbook. Can anyone enlighten me on whether, in fact, gain and bias can be adjusted from the user menu and if so, where to find it? Thanks.

Answered on the previous page of this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8616601&&#post8616601

Thanks gremmy. Like I said...must be having a bad day. I missed it!

For those who are interested, I just delved into the Service Menu for the first time, to see if I could make 3D gamma adjustments by eye.

And the answer is, no way.

First of all, once you enter the 3D gamma menus, you are presented with full field IRE patterns that are a strange color temperature that makes pink discolorations practically invisible to the eye.

Secondly, on my mid-range IREs, the screen is leaning toward what appears to be a mostly nuetral shade of gray toward the middle, and a greenish-gray around the entire border. Of these two shades, it is impossible for me to tell which one I should calibrate toward. My instinct tells me to calibrate toward the more nuetral appearing color, but with these whacked-out color-temp screens, it's so hard to tell. Plus, there's so much *more* of the greenish color I'm afraid to start fiddling with it for fear of what it will do to surrounding IREs. News flash: We could totally screw our Pearls up messing around with the 3D gamma settings. Unless you know what you're doing, stay far away.

I also tried boosting the blue panel driver to 45, but contrary to SOWK's experience, I noticed a shift of color toward blue that had a very slight washing out effect on warmer colors. I believe that's why it works to begin with. So I put the blue panel driver back to 42.

I am very curious to find out what WM is going to charge for a full calibration, since I think that is the real answer for those of us picky enough to care. I might just let this one go, since my uniformity issues are very minor.

Turn the unit back to Wide Color mode. Thats where the major difference is coming.

If you have the color set to normal, you lose alot of 3D effect from the get go.

I'll take a little more saturation and 3D effect then a flat accurate image.


Then bring up blue 3 in the panel driver.

Mine is set at 37 by default.

Yours is 42?

what is your red and green?

For those who are interested, I just delved into the Service Menu for the first time, to see if I could make 3D gamma adjustments by eye.

And the answer is, no way.

First of all, once you enter the 3D gamma menus, you are presented with full field IRE patterns that are a strange color temperature that makes pink discolorations practically invisible to the eye.

Secondly, on my mid-range IREs, the screen is leaning toward what appears to be a mostly nuetral shade of gray toward the middle, and a greenish-gray around the entire border. Of these two shades, it is impossible for me to tell which one I should calibrate toward. My instinct tells me to calibrate toward the more nuetral appearing color, but with these whacked-out color-temp screens, it's so hard to tell. Plus, there's so much *more* of the greenish color I'm afraid to start fiddling with it for fear of what it will do to surrounding IREs. News flash: We could totally screw our Pearls up messing around with the 3D gamma settings. Unless you know what you're doing, stay far away.

I also tried boosting the blue panel driver to 45, but contrary to SOWK's experience, I noticed a shift of color toward blue that had a very slight washing out effect on warmer colors. I believe that's why it works to begin with. So I put the blue panel driver back to 42.

I am very curious to find out what WM is going to charge for a full calibration, since I think that is the real answer for those of us picky enough to care. I might just let this one go, since my uniformity issues are very minor.

Gremmy can you provide more information on how to get to this part of the menu, and what you discovered about how the settings work?

For someone like me that has much more striking uniformity issues, I might have more luck bringing them back into the right ballpark with a colorimter.

Thanks,

Sage

Turn the unit back to Wide Color mode. Thats where the major difference is coming.

If you have the color set to normal, you lose alot of 3D effect from the get go.

I'll take a little more saturation and 3D effect then a flat accurate image.


Then bring up blue 3 in the panel driver.

Mine is set at 37 by default.

Yours is 42?

what is your red and green?

Yeah, mine was set at 42 by default. I believe that red and green were both at 85, but I would have to double check. I just can't get the wide color space to look right. I can tinker with it again to see what I can accomplish, but everything looked overblown and oversaturated. I do like a bit of oversaturation on the Pearl, but I prefer the oversaturation of the normal color space instead of Sony's home grown color space. But I'll mess around with "wide" and see what I can do.

Gremmy can you provide more information on how to get to this part of the menu, and what you discovered about how the settings work?

For someone like me that has much more striking uniformity issues, I might have more luck bringing them back into the right ballpark with a colorimter.

Thanks,

Sage

1) First, enter the service menu by hitting ENTER-->ENTER-->LEFT-->ENTER on the remote

2) A dialog box will appear and ask you if you want to enter service mode. Say yes.

3) Hit the menu button the remote. The normal user menu will appear.

4) You will notice that there is a new, heretofore unseen option at the very bottom of the lefthand navigation of the menu. It's called "Device," I believe. Use the down arrow to navigate to "Device."

5) The righthand frame will have several options, including gamma. navigate to the gamma option and press ENTER.

6) Welcome to the gamma screens. You will probably start out at 0 IRE, which is level 1. A giant yellow cursor-like square will be position next to the "Level" indicator, meaning that if you start hitting the "right" arrow you can navigate up through the 11 levels (or up to 100 IRE).

7) You can use normal arrow navigation to highlight the "position" indicator and navigate through all the various "positions" at each level. There are lots of "positions," so doing an entire level will take hours, as has been reported previously on this thread.

8) Use the link that was posted a few pages ago (Pip might have posted it) in this thread for more information on how to calibrate, should you choose to proceed.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

1) First, enter the service menu by hitting ENTER-->ENTER-->LEFT-->ENTER on the remote

2) A dialog box will appear and ask you if you want to enter service mode. Say yes.

3) Hit the menu button the remote. The normal user menu will appear.

4) You will notice that there is a new, heretofore unseen option at the very bottom of the lefthand navigation of the menu. It's called "Device," I believe. Use the down arrow to navigate to "Device."

5) The righthand frame will have several options, including gamma. navigate to the gamma option and press ENTER.

6) Welcome to the gamma screens. You will probably start out at 0 IRE, which is level 1. A giant yellow cursor-like square will be position next to the "Level" indicator, meaning that if you start hitting the "right" arrow you can navigate up through the 11 levels (or up to 100 IRE).

7) You can use normal arrow navigation to highlight the "position" indicator and navigate through all the various "positions" at each level. There are lots of "positions," so doing an entire level will take hours, as has been reported previously on this thread.

8) Use the link that was posted a few pages ago (Pip might have posted it) in this thread for more information on how to calibrate, should you choose to proceed.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

Okay, so I did this (before you managed to post this :D ).

I skipped to 80 IRE (where my worst problem is). I wrote down a bunch of settings and spent 30 minutes at this. In 30 minutes I was able to significantly mitigate my problem (at 80 IRE). However, I'm now slightly dim in the middle, so I will need to bump up red and blue slightly.

My guess is that with about 6 to 8 hours of by-hand work I can significantly mitigate this from 20 to 90 IRE, where the problem is the worst.

I'm going to try using R / B / G filters, and using them to view white field uniformity using their patterns. I think that might make it even easier.

Okay, so I did this (before you managed to post this :D ).

I skipped to 80 IRE (where my worst problem is). I wrote down a bunch of settings and spent 30 minutes at this. In 30 minutes I was able to significantly mitigate my problem (at 80 IRE). However, I'm now slightly dim in the middle, so I will need to bump up red and blue slightly.

My guess is that with about 6 to 8 hours of by-hand work I can significantly mitigate this from 20 to 90 IRE, where the problem is the worst.

I'm going to try using R / B / G filters, and using them to view white field uniformity using their patterns. I think that might make it even easier.

Okay, I have been thinking about this more. I would love feedback from Mr. Phelps. :=)

My *guess* is that there is significant interaction between adjacent IRE fields. So, the way to try this is to probably to skip IREs. For example, do 2, 4, 6, 8 and 10. Then go back and do 1, 3, 5, 7 and 9.

This way I don't over adjust if there IS an interaction.

Man this is going to be tedious!

Okay, I have been thinking about this more. I would love feedback from Mr. Phelps. :=)

My *guess* is that there is significant interaction between adjacent IRE fields. So, the way to try this is to probably to skip IREs. For example, do 2, 4, 6, 8 and 10. Then go back and do 1, 3, 5, 7 and 9.

This way I don't over adjust if there IS an interaction.

Man this is going to be tedious!

Do keep us posted.

Just out of curiosity, what purpose are the filters supposed to serve? I tried viewing the screen through a blue filter (at someone else's earlier suggestion), and everything just looks blue.

Gremmy...

Chosing a filter in the color the lamp runs out of 1st, allows you to calibrate with the other colors at higher amounts, expanding contrast.

On the Sony 51A, the lamp runs out of RED 1st. So using a FL-Day filter which shifts the color to RED, you can calibrate BLUE/GREEN bias/gain settings to higher values at any given color temp like 6500K.

The Ruby Xenon lamp runs out of BLUE 1st, so a blue filter would allow the adjustment of RED/GREEN to higher values.

The expansion of contrast through calibration with a filter, typically allows for darker blacks and only slightly darker whites.

I was able to measure this contrast increase on the 51A calibrated with the FL-Day filter, which was a nice way to go with a HP screen. However, in situations where lumens levels are already near the low end tipping point, calibrating with a filter usually makes lumen performance suffer even more.

100% accurate, but not what I meant. :=)

I mean holding a filter up to my eye to judge uniformity of a particular color. So, if I hold up a red filter, primarily red passes through it. I can use it judge red uniformity.

Gremmy...

Chosing a filter in the color the lamp runs out of 1st, allows you to calibrate with the other colors at higher amounts, expanding contrast.

On the Sony 51A, the lamp runs out of RED 1st. So using a FL-Day filter which shifts the color to RED, you can calibrate BLUE/GREEN bias/gain settings to higher values at any given color temp like 6500K.

The Ruby Xenon lamp runs out of BLUE 1st, so a blue filter would allow the adjustment of RED/GREEN to higher values.

The expansion of contrast through calibration with a filter, typically allows for darker blacks and only slightly darker whites.

I was able to measure this contrast increase on the 51A calibrated with the FL-Day filter, which was a nice way to go with a HP screen. However, in situations where lumens levels are already near the low end tipping point, calibrating with a filter usually makes lumen performance suffer even more.

I'll post pics tomorrow, but I spent about 4 hours on this and would describe it as quite successful, with a few caveats.

First off, my green is almost complete gone, especially at high IREs where it was most visible in the past. 20 IRE is still slightly plus green in the middle, but it is much more subtle.

Second, I also was able to dial out some of the red that was on the top portion of my image. This helps even out the overall white field.

That's why I would say this has been succesful. The green blob that cursed me is now gone.

Here are some of the tidbits I learned:
- at lower IREs, the magnitude of the +/- changes is greater, so you need less adjustment.
- because your eye is so sensitive at low IREs to brightness, I had to replace some of the green I removed with red and blue. I did not due this at higher IREs, as my eye can't perceive this slight change in brightness.
- I had to re calibrate my grayscale. I would not recommend doing this without having proper calibration tools, and knowing how to use them. You run a significant risk of ending up worse than you started.
- I discovered that every single green value at every point on every IRE was set to 0. Only R and B had been modified. Lazy workers?
- My uniformity is no where near perfect -- WP could do a MUCH better job with this, I have absolutely no doubt. However, I was able to get it to be ballpark similar to my RP CRT -- which is to say, watchable. Overall, I tend to be slightly plus red on the top and a bit plus blue / green towards the bottom.
- I would only recommend fiddling here if you have severe problems, and are willing to spend a lot of time working on this.
- I have set my DI to Manual, and I have no idea how the DI interacts with the 3d gamma, or whether there is any secret Sony special sauce that modified these settings (I sure hope not).

Edit:
- Previously when I had measured the Left, Center and Right portions of the screen at 80 IRE for white field uniformity, I had measured 6800 Kelvin, 6500 Kelvin and 5800 Kelvin (to be more exact: I could only acheive D65 on a small portion of the screen). I re-measured and found that I was slightly plus blue on the very left (6800 Kelvin) and very close to D65 in the middle AND on the right. The slight plus blue on the left is not noticable to my eye in real world content, including B&W (where it would tend to show).

100% accurate, but not what I meant. :=)

I mean holding a filter up to my eye to judge uniformity of a particular color. So, if I hold up a red filter, primarily red passes through it. I can use it judge red uniformity.

This didn't work, and was clearly a dumb idea. :=)

I don't think all the greens are set at 0 due to lazy workers. As you discovered yourself, adjusting the green causes changes in brightness - due to the fact that our vision is much more sensitive to brightness in the greens. I believe the system is designed to have all the adjustments done by adding or subtracting reds and blues. I'm no expert - I read this several years ago on this forum regarding one of the earlier Sony projectors.

Very glad you have had success. And thanks for posting your methods. I'm sure others will tackle this now.

Thanks,
Pip

I don't think all the greens are set at 0 due to lazy workers. As you discovered yourself, adjusting the green causes changes in brightness - due to the fact that our vision is much more sensitive to brightness in the greens. I believe the system is designed to have all the adjustments done by adding or subtracting reds and blues. I'm no expert - I read this several years ago on this forum regarding one of the earlier Sony projectors.

Very glad you have had success. And thanks for posting your methods. I'm sure others will tackle this now.

Thanks,
Pip

Hi Pip --

I was being facetious when I blamed lazy Sony employees. :=) I was actually thinking something similar to what you describe. As an aftifact to this for the manufacturing process, however, it means that units with particularly large changes in green intensity (such as in the freaking middle of the screen) may have significantly poorer uniformity that than others.

Sage

Has anyone tried using this projector in a constant 2.35:1 aspect ratio setup? I was wondering wether I need an externel scaler/video processor to use my Prismasonic lense with the Pearl.. Anyone know if it's possible to "zoom" in on the picture material on a 2.35 movie?

Will the pearl work with a 106" matte white 1.0 gain screen? Room will be dark with no problems re ambient light.

Will the pearl work with a 106" matte white 1.0 gain screen? Room will be dark with no problems re ambient light.To me it looks works fine in low lamp mode, but I didn't calibrated my Pearl yet.

Has anyone tried using this projector in a constant 2.35:1 aspect ratio setup? I was wondering wether I need an externel scaler/video processor to use my Prismasonic lense with the Pearl.. Anyone know if it's possible to "zoom" in on the picture material on a 2.35 movie?

The Pearl can not strech a 2:35 to fit a 1:78, so you will still need a external scaler

-SOWK

I have about 20 hours on my Pearl now. Overall I am very pleased with it. I watched a 1080 source of SW Episode III... freaking beautiful. The only complaint that I have is with the level of shadow detail. I have to turn the brightness up really high (around 68 with a contrast of 80) to get decent shadow detail, which washes out the picture. Anybody else noticed this?

I am not super picky about black level and shadow detail, but in some dark or dimly lit scenes it is extremely apparent. I find I am straining to make out shapes because they all blend together. Last night I was watching Without a Trace on CBS HD and some of the interrogation scenes peoples suits just blended in with the walls.

I am using a 110" Firehawk screen. The projector is ceiling mounted 14' from the screen. My seating position is directly beneath the projector. It is directly connected via HDMI cable to my HTPC and Directv HD200 satallite receiver. I used DVE to calibrate it. I am using Cinema Mode.

Have you tried the various gamma settings? That might raise the visibility of shadow detail, without needing to raise brightness that much. Make sure, too, that you don't have the enhanced black level on, which will do what you describe.

Gamma1 and Gamma2 are very useful for shadow detail, but the problem is that it washes out some of the colors in the areas of the image that are being boosted and gives the image a somewhat artificial feeling. For example, tonight I watched "A History of Violence," mostly in Gamma1. In the theater, I remember the inside of the brother's mansion having a warm glow, with rich wood tones. This is also how it looked with gamma off. In Gamma1 and Gamma2, it looked like the interior was being lit by cold florescent lights instead of warm incandescents. It is not a trade-off that I am fond of.

Strangely, switching to "high" bulb provides more lumens, but doesn't really improve the shadow detail situation either.

I too have noticed the effect of poor shadow detail now that the bulb has broken in a bit (about 80 hours), but it's only on certain content, and I think the key is finding the right settings. I decided a still like gamma off on most stuff, and I bumped my brightness up to 55. As the bulb dims, the blacks get blacker, and the brightness can afford to be bumped up.

Thus far, my experience tells me that you have to make a choice between shadow detail and deep blacks with this projector.

If the Pearl video processing is anything like the HS 51 & 51A, there might be a significant benefit from calibration done with Gamma 2 turned on.

Doing this might help smooth out the gamma curve at the top/bottom ends while smoothing out the gryascale response at the same time.

I found it only required solid tracking down to 30 IRE to achieve the desired result on both the 51 & 51A, although the 51A was an inherently better rig from beginning to end of the calibration process. I assume the Pearl would be an even friendlier projector in this regard.

It's was also benefitital to calibrate with the lamp in HIGH, so I calibrated for 6500/7500/9300 in HIGH lamp mode. I ended up keeping the 7500/9300 settings for watching in high lamp mode, for sports and for the kids when watching animated movies during the day.

If the Pearl video processing is anything like the HS 51 & 51A, there might be a significant benefit from calibration done with Gamma 2 turned on.

Doing this might help smooth out the gamma curve at the top/bottom ends while smoothing out the gryascale response at the same time.

I found it only required solid tracking down to 30 IRE to achieve the desired result on both the 51 & 51A, although the 51A was an inherently better rig from beginning to end of the calibration process. I assume the Pearl would be an even friendlier projector in this regard.

It's was also benefitital to calibrate with the lamp in HIGH, so I calibrated for 6500/7500/9300 in HIGH lamp mode. I ended up keeping the 7500/9300 settings for watching in high lamp mode, for sports and for the kids when watching animated movies during the day.

Without instrumentation, how would you recommend that a person "calibrate" for gamma2? It this simply a matter of messing with the RGB gain/bias controls until it approximates the picture provided with gamma turned off? Is this even possible?

Thanks for your thoughts.

A few comments about uniformity adjustments (what Sony calls "3D Gamma")...

1) do not make any adjustments in the center of the screen. You should find that Sony has left the center at zero. You should too.

2) I know it's tempting to make adjustments while displaying a white field. I would suggest not doing this. Instead use a light meter at the screen and adjust 1 color at a time. Use white to determine where you need to work, then make adjustments in each primary color.

3) before you start you need to know where the zones are, and what the signal level is that is being affected by a given level of adjustment. If the VW50 is like the VW100 (I have one here but I haven't had time to check yet) then the levels for red, green, and blue are not necessarily the same! Unfortunately Sony still insists on having Bias and Gain adjustments, both at the service level and user level. These will affect where the "3D Gamma" data operates! I start by setting Bias and Gain to the same values for all 3 colors...

The best way to determine the signal level for a particular adjustment level is to "spike" a few zones (set them to +50 or - 50) and then adjust the input signal until you find the point of maximum change. You must do this for each of the shading levels, for each color. Once you have determined these levels do not change inputs.

Sound complicated? Maybe one of these days Sony will figure out that they could simplify the signal path and actually get a better picture...

When you get all done and you want to keep it, don't forget to SAVE it!

It's a *LOT* easier when you can back up and restore the data.

William

Thus far, my experience tells me that you have to make a choice between shadow detail and deep blacks with this projector.

Or install better gamma curves.

The projector has an internal "master" gamma curve as well. The "user" gamma data is combined with the factory data.

William

Thanks for the good advice. I'd like to add a few observations.

1) My projector came with just as many factory uniformity adjustments to the center of the screen as to the edges. Green was not adjusted anywhere, however. The magnitude of the changes increased as the IRE level increased. I started at the middle, because that where I had the worst problems. I am now working my way outwards.

2) I used IRE fields, which I agree is not optimum, but it's what I had to work with. I'll try your suggestion. I tried looking through a color filter at the IRE field, but that just didn't work very well.

3) I spiked green, and used that to spot the interaction accross IREs. I didn't think it would be different for different colors. I just skipped IRE settings (i.e. 2, 4, 6, 8, then 1, 3, 5, 7) to minimize then interaction effects, and did this as a very iterative process, with the smallest adjustments possible at every step.

I'm sure this would be a lot easier if I had a s/w tool to help. :=)

I now have the image where it's watchable (it was really pretty bad before), although IRE fields still show uniformity issues. I'm thinking about renting a fancy minolta colorimter (if I can find one locally) and using that to more accurately adjust color uniformity. That said, measurements accross the image with my Sencore probe showed that it was much closer to D65 between sides to center after I did a grayscale calibration. I will use these suggestions when I work on fine tuning the image.

At this point, my image is now slightly plus green on the bottom, plus red on the top. The grayscale has some very slight reddish coloration at low IREs, which are restricted to portions of the image (i.e. are shading related). This is only easily visible with B&W content. Color content looks much better, although on closesups of faces, foreheads look a touch flushed, and chins look a bit sallow. Doing this by hand is a huge amount of work, and I really only recommend this if you have a really serious issue, and a lot of time. Doing this by hand will likely results in additional image artifacts that are difficult to correct. In my case, those artifacts are more minor than the original image flaw (super +green in the center).

If WM offers Pearl uniformity tuning, I will probably still send my projector him...


A few comments about uniformity adjustments (what Sony calls "3D Gamma")...

1) do not make any adjustments in the center of the screen. You should find that Sony has left the center at zero. You should too.

2) I know it's tempting to make adjustments while displaying a white field. I would suggest not doing this. Instead use a light meter at the screen and adjust 1 color at a time. Use white to determine where you need to work, then make adjustments in each primary color.

3) before you start you need to know where the zones are, and what the signal level is that is being affected by a given level of adjustment. If the VW50 is like the VW100 (I have one here but I haven't had time to check yet) then the levels for red, green, and blue are not necessarily the same! Unfortunately Sony still insists on having Bias and Gain adjustments, both at the service level and user level. These will affect where the "3D Gamma" data operates! I start by setting Bias and Gain to the same values for all 3 colors...

The best way to determine the signal level for a particular adjustment level is to "spike" a few zones (set them to +50 or - 50) and then adjust the input signal until you find the point of maximum change. You must do this for each of the shading levels, for each color. Once you have determined these levels do not change inputs.

Sound complicated? Maybe one of these days Sony will figure out that they could simplify the signal path and actually get a better picture...

When you get all done and you want to keep it, don't forget to SAVE it!

It's a *LOT* easier when you can back up and restore the data.

William

Without instrumentation, how would you recommend that a person "calibrate" for gamma2? It this simply a matter of messing with the RGB gain/bias controls until it approximates the picture provided with gamma turned off? Is this even possible?

Thanks for your thoughts.

I'm sorry Gremmy, I only commented because of the title of this thread. The title suggests we are talking about "calibration" which presumes folks are making adjustments with the equipment required to measure the exact changes taking place.

Your use of the word "messing" is appropriate, because that is eactly what is being done when the proper equipment is not being used when making adjustments.

I have no suggestions on how to tweak grayscale and gamma response without the proper equipment. I certainly did my share of messing with RGB gain/bias controls long before I owned my current calibration gear, but I also know these efforts would never lead to a proper calibration except by accident.

If I may, I would echo the warning offered by our friend "wm"... folks without the knowledge & equipment should be very careful when messing in the service/factory menu.

SOWK is advising folks to make an adjustment to a panel driver, which is an area a calibrator would not adjust during a calibration. The panel driver change was and continues to be bad advice.

I am guilty of sharing info on my post calibration settings for the 51 and 51A. I will agree in hindsight with "wm" this practice is right on the edge of dangerous in the hands of an owner who could make a serious mess of their projector settings.

May I humbly suggest service menu tweaks only be posted by those who have the proper equipment to verify the results of their adjustments.

I would go further and humbly suggest projector owners following this or any other "calibration/tweaking" thread only consider trying the service menu changes offered by folks with the proper equipment. Eventhen , you are doing so with the understanding of the associated risk.

I hope everyone takes these comments in the spirit intended.

The interaction of the RGB bias/gain and Gamma choices are very complex, and the slightest change in one area, can have dramatic effects in another. Often the calibration process requires a exhaustive range of tweaks from top to bottom of the luminance range, until a compromise set of adjustments serve to offer the best balance of performance across the grayscale/gamma curve. Making adjustments strictly on the low end of the curve may produce wonderful results in the lowend performance, only to have the middle and high end drift far from ideal performance.

"wm" also brings up an excellent point regarding additional gamma curve options, and I would expect he is able to offer just such an alternative for projectors he calibrates. Even though I have calibration gear, I look forward to sending "wm" one of my projectors someday, so he can work his magic in areas I would never dream of addressing. :) I'm just don't yet own a projector on his list.

Hey byte... can you PM me you number I want to talk to you about the calibration tools you have.

I am interested in see how much they cost, and where I can learn to use them properly.

Hey byte... can you PM me you number I want to talk to you about the calibration tools you have.

I am interested in see how much they cost, and where I can learn to use them properly.

You might visit the calibration forum on AVS

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=139

They have ongoing discussions of a wide range of tools, techniques and how to get started.

I own the Progressive Labs CA-6X, but there a number of alternative packages, some costing less, some more. I run the CA-6X on my eMachines PC, but look forward to trying to use under BootCamp on one of my Intel Macs.

I'm sorry Gremmy, I only commented because of the title of this thread. The title suggests we are talking about "calibration" which presumes folks are making adjustments with the equipment required to measure the exact changes taking place.

Your use of the word "messing" is appropriate, because that is eactly what is being done when the proper equipment is not being used when making adjustments.

I have no suggestions on how to tweak grayscale and gamma response without the proper equipment. I certainly did my share of messing with RGB gain/bias controls long before I owned my current calibration gear, but I also know these efforts would never lead to a proper calibration except by accident.

If I may, I would echo the warning offered by our friend "wm"... folks without the knowledge & equipment should be very careful when messing in the service/factory menu.

SOWK is advising folks to make an adjustment to a panel driver, which is an area a calibrator would not adjust during a calibration. The panel driver change was and continues to be bad advice.

I am guilty of sharing info on my post calibration settings for the 51 and 51A. I will agree in hindsight with "wm" this practice is right on the edge of dangerous in the hands of an owner who could make a serious mess of their projector settings.

May I humbly suggest service menu tweaks only be posted by those who have the proper equipment to verify the results of their adjustments.

I would go further and humbly suggest projector owners following this or any other "calibration/tweaking" thread only consider trying the service menu changes offered by folks with the proper equipment. Eventhen , you are doing so with the understanding of the associated risk.

I hope everyone takes these comments in the spirit intended.

The interaction of the RGB bias/gain and Gamma choices are very complex, and the slightest change in one area, can have dramatic effects in another. Often the calibration process requires a exhaustive range of tweaks from top to bottom of the luminance range, until a compromise set of adjustments serve to offer the best balance of performance across the grayscale/gamma curve. Making adjustments strictly on the low end of the curve may produce wonderful results in the lowend performance, only to have the middle and high end drift far from ideal performance.

"wm" also brings up an excellent point regarding additional gamma curve options, and I would expect he is able to offer just such an alternative for projectors he calibrates. Even though I have calibration gear, I look forward to sending "wm" one of my projectors someday, so he can work his magic in areas I would never dream of addressing. :) I'm just don't yet own a projector on his list.

Byte, just so you know, the RGB gain/bias do not require an access to the service menu (they are available to all via the normal user menu), and they are very easily reset to the defaults, no memory required. So far as I know, I'm not going to destroy my projecter by tinkering around with the RGB gain/bias in the user menu, since all I have to do is reset everything to zero to return to the factory default.

So tinkering is likely what I'll do, unless someone really thinks I can ruin the projector like this.

If WM offers Pearl uniformity tuning, I will probably still send my projector him...At CEDIA WM's Meridian Faroudja D-ILA1080MF1 Projector put out a white field that was just stunningly uniform. (The colors were gorgeous and the most natural, IMO, of all the pjs I saw there.)

Dan

At CEDIA WM's Meridian Faroudja D-ILA1080MF1 Projector put out a white field that was just stunningly uniform. (The colors were gorgeous and the most natural, IMO, of all the pjs I saw there.)

Dan

I read the same thing in WSR. :=)

I believe it. Nailing your grayscale, proper color decoding, and good uniformity are hugely important for a great looking image.

The only reason I wouldn't do this are if I magically fixed everything, or received a replacement that is perfect.

First, let me say I love the Pearl. Jason Turk was here last weekend and installed my system. (Thanks Jason! First class job)
After everything was tweaked I was jawdropped amazed by the picture.
BUT, Clouds have a pink hue, in fact I see this pink hue way too much. Last night I watched several programs and it is getting annoying. Color uniformity? I guess this is what it is. I want to fix it. Is this something that I am going to have to get used to?
William, I am interested in your services. what are the odds of getting this fixed?

First, let me say I love the Pearl. Jason Turk was here last weekend and installed my system. (Thanks Jason! First class job)
After everything was tweaked I was jawdropped amazed by the picture.
BUT, Clouds have a pink hue, in fact I see this pink hue way too much. Last night I watched several programs and it is getting annoying. Color uniformity? I guess this is what it is. I want to fix it. Is this something that I am going to have to get used to?
William, I am interested in your services. what are the odds of getting this fixed?

When you say that clouds are pink, do you mean that whites across the entire screen have a pinkish hue? If so, this is not a uniformity problem, but rather a case of having a bit too much red in your whites, and you can probably fix it by tinkering with the RGB gain/bias controls in the normal user menu.

If, on the other hand, whites have a pronounced pinkish hue in only one specific area of the screen (the top middle, for example) and elsewhere they are green or nuetral, then yes, you have a uniformity issue. If it is severe, like sage's, you might be able to tweak it out (very carefully) using the 3D gamma tables in the service menu, but proceed with extreme caution.

Sky shots are a tricky place to evaluate uniformity issues. Just look at the sky in real life -- various shades of blue, white, pink, and gray are all over the typical sky shot. And sometimes, clouds really are pink.

If you've got some full-field IRE screens, you might want to run through these to see if the uniformity issue is a real problem on your Pearl.

The outlines of figures tend to have the pinkish hue especially if the actor is waring a white coat the shadow detail has the pink hue.
The clouds top outline have the pink hue...
Tried to turn down color but once you get rid of the pinkish hue the rest of the colors wash out.

Could the problem westh2o is having be due to convergence issues? :confused:

I think it's very hard to say without looking at reference images on that display.

How long has the Pearl been shipping now? Has QA been made aware of some of these issues? Are current shipments better?

Mine is probably shipping any day or has already and when I get it I would like it to be 100% so I dont have to take it down, box it up, send it back, wait some more, have a drink, take a sh..... well you get the idea... ;)

First, let me say I love the Pearl. Jason Turk was here last weekend and installed my system. (Thanks Jason! First class job)
After everything was tweaked I was jawdropped amazed by the picture.
BUT, Clouds have a pink hue, in fact I see this pink hue way too much. Last night I watched several programs and it is getting annoying. Color uniformity? I guess this is what it is. I want to fix it. Is this something that I am going to have to get used to?
William, I am interested in your services. what are the odds of getting this fixed?

If Jason is available to visit with you again, you might consider having him look at your Pearl and help you determine what needs to be done.

If the pickish tone is relatively uniform acroos the screen, you need a grayscale calibration, which would allow for a uniform color temp through out the luminance range.

If the pinkish tone is oriented to only a portion of the screen, this a matter of gamma uniformity and the issue gremmy and others have been talking about.

Again, if jason is available to visit ( I assume it wasn't a road trip for him) he could help you nail down the issue.

Convergence was perfect.

If you calibrate a projector like the Pearl in "low" bulb mode, will it still be calibrated if you switch to "high" mode?

The reason I ask is that I'll have a movable HE panamorph lens in the beam for 2.35:1 CIH viewing. Most viewing (say, 70%) will be of 1.78"1 or 1.33:1 content using low mode, but for movies, because the panamorph decreases brightness by 30%, I intend to increase this to high. This should keep the overall brightness amout the same when I use the lens. Otherwise, if I keep it in High mode all the time, the 1.79 and 1.33 material will be overly bright (plus bulb life will be reduced).

Will doing this throw off the grey-scale tracking or introduce other picture quality issue?

Thanks,
Mark

Convergence was perfect.

Perfect convergence. Holy cow, we have a winner! :D

Seriously though, how did you verify perfect convergence?

That is what Jason said when he calibrated it.

That is what Jason said when he calibrated it.

Well, that's good news, since convergence cannot be fixed by any readily available means that I am aware of.

Color uniformity, on the other hand, can be fixed. We all anxiously await William Phelps and his magical Pearl shading tool. :D

If you calibrate a projector like the Pearl in "low" bulb mode, will it still be calibrated if you switch to "high" mode?

Usually, the answer is NO. The lamp typically exhibits a color temp shift in HIGH lamp mode.

Keep in mind, you might still have a flat grayscale response, with the color temp shift uniform across the grayscale.

It's possible you might not be able to see the shift.

The 51A UHP lamp shifted slightly to BLUE in HIGH lamp mode and needed 4 extra clicks of RED gain & 5 extra clicks of GREEN gain and (-1) click of GREEN bias.

It's interesting to note, in normal lamp mode, I dialed in RED right on the edge of it's limits at 100 IRE. You would think I would have run out of RED in HIGH lamp mode, but extra RED came from somewhere. Come to think of it, I might have been able to push RED a little harder thus getting some extra lumens, but I only adjusted RED & GREEN enough to restore the color temp.

After 100hrs I did an initial calibration run using Custom 2 as a base. I also found that lots of red is available. I had to push green and blue by reasonable amounts to get back from very warm to 65k. I did not try to fool with bias yet. Picture has some real punch now. It's always amazing to me how the eye/brain can accept any color response as "ok" until you measure and see how far off you were.... :eek:

"low" measures about 4k with heavy red.

My convergence is "perfect" on the left 3/4 of the screen with about 1/2 to 1 pixel off in red on the right 1/4 of the screen only in the horizontal. I can't see any evidence of it in real material. I don't have any green blobs or such, the full fields look uniform.

Tom did you do the calibration with the lamp on low or high?

ALSO PLEASE DON"T GO INTO THE SERVICE MENU UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING - IF YOU PLAY WITH OTHER THINGS IN THE SERVICE MENU YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO PUT THE SETTINGS BACK PROPERLY! GO INTO THE MENU AT YOUR OWN RISK!



Color Uniformity

For those willing to try to fix color uniformity themselves by eye

Whats needed?

DVD or External Video Proccessor with full frame IRE Steps

service menu - enter/enter/left/enter

Gamma menu

IF YOU LIKE THE CHANGES - SAVE YOUR SETTINGS OR THEY WILL BE RESET!

There are 12 full frame steps - with 300 points of correction on each

Green is usually set to 0 for almost everything.

I made my adj to green as to keep things simple.


Here is the list of the Shading level Steps that effect the External Full Frame IRE settings

0 = 0 IRE
1 = 5 IRE
2 = 10 IRE
3 = 20 IRE
4 = 30 IRE
5 = 40/50 IRE
6 = 60/70 IRE
7 = 70/80/90 IRE
8 = 100 IRE
9-12 = Apparently more then 100 IRE with my settings - So I am not touching these.

* I believe these are closely related to CONTRAST you have set. I have mine at default 80 - If I were to bring contrast up to max I would raise my white levels allowing me to use 9-12. I also think this would change the relationship above, but if you fix it, it will be fixed even if you change the scale.

-SOWK



ALSO PLEASE DON"T GO INTO THE SERVICE MENU UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING - IF YOU PLAY WITH OTHER THINGS IN THE SERVICE MENU YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO PUT THE SETTINGS BACK PROPERLY! GO INTO THE MENU AT YOUR OWN RISK!

I've only Changed Number 5 Full frame so far and the difference is amazing.

I took the edge of my problem area down 1 for green
I took spots one step in from the edge down 2 for green
I took the main portion of problem area down 3 for green


This proccess takes 30 - 45 mins per full frame - I am going to do 1 a night. Remember with my settings there are 8 frames to correct! (1-8 only)

I've only Changed Number 5 Full frame so far and the difference is amazing.

I took the edge of my problem area down 1 for green
I took spots one step in from the edge down 2 for green
I took the main portion of problem area down 3 for green


This proccess takes 30 - 45 mins per full frame - I am going to do 1 a night. Remember with my settings there are 8 frames to correct! (1-8 only)

Despite the fact that most people seem to be recommending to adjust blue/red and leave green alone, there is one giant benefit to doing it your way: Since green is defaulted to 0, it is very easy to return to the factory default settings if you decide you don't like the changes.

Note: Please, I hope no one uses my words to justify tinkering around in the SM if they are not comfortable with the risk. As gregr said in an earlier post, tinkering in the SM could result in problems which cannot be corrected by the user. And I certainly lack the expertise required to delcare this sort of activity "safe."

But it seems interesting, nonetheless.

Yuppers!

Question: Will a Chief Universal Mount work on a Pearl? I am using a HS51 right now and looking at getting a Pearl, any idea if my current mount will work with this unit?

Thanks!!

Despite the fact that most people seem to be recommending to adjust blue/red and leave green alone, there is one giant benefit to doing it your way: Since green is defaulted to 0, it is very easy to return to the factory default settings if you decide you don't like the changes.


That's true, but then you can have brightness uniformity issues.

Tom did you do the calibration with the lamp on low or high?

I did lamp low and iris off.

Tom

That's true, but then you can have brightness uniformity issues.

Thats the same for changing red and blue. What are you talking about?

Thats the same for changing red and blue. What are you talking about?

If you reduce green, then you have lowered the light output of that portion of your screen. It's not easily visible at high IREs, but it is easily visible at mid to low IREs. The solution is to then replace with red and blue, but knowing how much requires a color measurement system.