After reading through a ton of posts in here, it's got me fired up to begin a DIY sub project of my own. Im not new to box building as I've done quite a few in the car audio arena, but this will be my first home theater application. My current set up consists of an svs pc-ultra in my 13x24x8 dedicated theater room. Pics in my sig if it helps any.

I'll try to keep my thoughts as organized as possible.... Im looking for what we all are, deep and powerfull extensions down to the depth's of home theater bass :) Im happy with my svs, but want more :eek:

The drivers: After reading quite a few good reviews here, im leaning towards either a single or pair of the rl-p15's. I'd like to use a pair of them, but if my limitations on box size prevent it, a single would be fine with me. Open to other drivers as well......

The box: I'd like to use a conventional box instead of a sonotube design. If at all possible I'dl like to keep external dimensions at 24x24x48 or less. I plan to use 1" mdf with internal bracing unless 2 layers of 3/4" mdf is required. Using 1" mdf, this gives me 12.88 cu/ft gross volume to work with. Im open to discussing the sonotube design if it's necessary to achive the goals I want.

The port: If at all possible, I'd like to use a 6" port, no longer than 17". This will allow me to use one of the prefab flared ports from thrilleraudio.com. Though if needed, im not against using pvc to get the necessary port length/diameter. Of course I'd like it tuned low, around 15-17hz if possible.

The amp: For overall ease, would like to go with the 1000w plate amp from parts express. If something like the behringer 1500 or 2500 is deemed the better choice, I can live with that as well. I don't have a rack for equipment though, just a prefab audio shelving unit.

Ok, that's all I can think of right now. Im open to any opinions on any of my parameters. I'd like some help deciding if I can make the dual rl-p15 set up work with my box and port limitations.

Your enclosure doesn't have to be that big, a D2 works well in 260 effective liters. A 6" diameter port will have to be considerably longer than 17" for a ~15hz tune. I'd suggest using sonotube for the port materials due to cost and weight - as for flares, you can either make them yourself with a large roundover bit or you can look into 6" flares that apparently are going to be sold sometime soon......the link is in one of these threads, I forget which.

I'd stay away from the 1000 watt plate amp. Go with a pro amp or the Buttkicker amp.

Thanks Steve, I was hoping to hear from you :) Ok, so your suggesting using a single rl-p15 D2 in 260l (about 9.2 cu/ft if my conversion is correct)?

Im not against using the sonotube as the port material, but I have no idea where to find it locally. Is there a place on the net that sells it and ships it? You mentioned the pre made 6" flare tubes, which is what I was wanting to stay with if possible. I found them here: http://www.thrilleraudio.com/detail.aspx?ID=536 But they are restricted to 17" length, which it doesn't appear will be long enough for my needs. If that's the case, and I have to use the sonotube anyway, would it be better to go up to an 8" port? I just threw out 15hz as the tune, but am not dead set on that. Anywhere from 15-17 or 18 modeled should get even lower in room correct? If you look at my pictures in my sig, the sub will reside in a corner of my room. Unfortunately it does have to be behind the listening position. I get nothing in my listening position if the sub is in either of the front corners.

I'll check out the buttkicker amp along with the Behringer's. How much power would you say is needed for this application? And is it ok to just sit the amp on one of my shelves instead of mounting it in a rack? My only concern is heat issues. Fan noise shouldn't be a problem as I can close the door to my equipment closet and never hear it.

Sonotube up to about 12" in diameter can be found at the likes of Home Depot and such. They might not carry the Sono brand, so ask for a cylinder concrete form. ;)

he was referring to 6" flares...which are just the flares...you would attach them to your own port (of any length, as long as the diameter is still 6") There are some links around to these flares...I'm not sure exactly where they are though. I believe they are going to be released soon.

Ok, so your suggesting using a single rl-p15 D2 in 260l (about 9.2 cu/ft if my conversion is correct)?
260 effective liters, so it will be about 290 raw.

I found them here: http://www.thrilleraudio.com/detail.aspx?ID=536 But they are restricted to 17" length, which it doesn't appear will be long enough for my needs. If that's the case, and I have to use the sonotube anyway, would it be better to go up to an 8" port? I just threw out 15hz as the tune, but am not dead set on that. Anywhere from 15-17 or 18 modeled should get even lower in room correct?
A simulated 15hz tune with this design works really well - that would be a 6" diameter port that is 30" long with some flaring or roundovers. My point on the flares was that you be able to just buy the flares themselves. From my point of view, if you are willing to spend the money to buy those flares (which don't be surprised if it comes out to be ~$50), you'd be better off just buying a big roundover bit, as you'll have your flares AND you'll have a big roundover bit :D

How much power would you say is needed for this application?
I'd aim for 600-900 watts.

Right, 260 liters net...gotcha.

Ahhh, I see what y'all are saying about the flares. I'll have a look to see if I can find the link, but I'll probably use the roundover bit.

Would you think that a pair of the rl-p 12's would work in a similar size box and give me any noticeable gain over the single 15"......worth the extra $$? Which program are you using to model by the way? I've got a copy of bassbox 6 pro, im just not that proficient at using it. I'll give it a try this weekend and post up some more info.

Thanks again for all the tips and help!

No, RLp12's are geared for small sealed enclosures - car use mainly. I use WinISD Pro and Flare-It.

Thanks again Steve. Just for grins and giggles, what would I need to do to have a pair of the rl-p 15's work properly?

Not sure what you're asking? I think we already covered most of the design.

Im wondering what it would take to have 2 of the 15's in a shared enclosure. Two of the rl-p15's in one box.

Double up the parameters. 520 effective liters, 1200-1800 watts. Instead of two 6" ports that are 30" long, you could go with a single 9-10" that is ~36" long and reduce port velocity even more. That would be the main reason I'd go with a dual driver design. An interesting note may be that Steve nn went from just such a dual RLp15 box to a single RLp15 sonosub and noticed a bit of an increase in sound quality at the same listening levels.

Hah, I figured as much. 18+cu/ft is a little larger than I care to go LOL :)

That is an interesting note on Steve nn's situation. Just going from a box to a sonosub wouldn't have made the difference correct? It's just that one of the 15's work better in 260 liters than 2 of them in 520 liters I would assume? If the tube design in fact works better than the box, I'll reconsider that part.

Would I benefit from using an 8" port versus the 6" in the single 15 box? Or would that make it too long to fit in the box?

Thanks again for all the help!

If the tube design in fact works better than the box, I'll reconsider that part.


I'd say it is certainly worth looking into. IIRC, Steve has basically said that a single Sonosub using the Rl-p should be enough for most people, in rooms that are not extremely big. Maybe there is something to the sonotube enclosure as opposed to the box, but eitherway, it is lighter (and easier to build?).

I'll definetly start looking around for some tube and some tutorials on how to do the end caps and such. Still not sure on how to attach the port to the roundover flare or how to do a flare on the inside end of the port.

Just another quick question, but would using a tc2000 make any appreciable difference?

I'll definetly start looking around for .... some tutorials on how to do the end caps and such. Patrick Sun has the most details on his site - link (http://www.io.com/~patman/sunosub.html)

not sure on how to attach the port to the roundover flare or how to do a flare on the inside end of the port. Speakerbuilder.net (http://www.speakerbuilder.net/web_files/Articles/porttut/porttut.htm)

Just another quick question, but would using a tc2000 make any appreciable difference? Probably not. But I do like the extra 4mm of xmax the TC2000 has over the RL-p.

-Robert

Hey thanks rlj. Notice your a MS fellow. Im a transplant here in LR by way of Jackson, Hattiesburg, and then Biloxi/Gulfport MS myself :) Graduated from USM in '97.

So could I use the tc2000 in the same enclosure w/o it changing any of the parameters with regards to enclosure volume, port length, etc.?

Hey thanks rlj. Notice your a MS fellow. Im a transplant here in LR by way of Jackson, Hattiesburg, and then Biloxi/Gulfport MS myself :) Graduated from USM in '97. I moved here from Little Rock almost 6 years ago.

So could I use the tc2000 in the same enclosure w/o it changing any of the parameters with regards to enclosure volume, port length, etc.? No. Even though both subs are built on the same platform, they have different T/S parameters. Run both through WinISD or Unibox and see if they are have the same response curve while in the same enclosure. Probably not but I bet they are close.

-Robert

Just going from a box to a sonosub wouldn't have made the difference correct? It's just that one of the 15's work better in 260 liters than 2 of them in 520 liters I would assume? If the tube design in fact works better than the box, I'll reconsider that part.
Well the use of sonotube can in fact play a role - it's a cylinder shape, and circles don't have any corners, so pressure is exerted equally over the entire surface area. This basically means that the sonotube won't flex or resonate at all. His large box, though braced well, isn't go to be as resistant to flexing, though I never figured it would have resulted in an audible difference. The port area of the single sonosub compared to the dual driver sub is actually less, so it can't be anything port related - well, the port in the large box didn't have any roundovers....but I doubt that was it. The tune on the single sonosub is lower, and that should definitely play a role. The amp is the same, so that's out. The sonosub is downfiring while the box was front firing, so he may be possibly getting less localization. So it would be enclosure, tune, and orientation related I woul imagine. Either way, my suggested designs will now assume sonosubs as the best option.

That's a nice way to break it down Steve. Thanks! Sonosub it is! Now I just have to decide if I want the rl-p15 at 260 liters or the tc2000 at 320 liters. Im kind of limited to around 5' tall due to the shape of my room, so that will play a factor as well. I don't mind going with 22" tube, but 24" might be pushing the waf envelope ;)

Im kind of limited to around 5' tall due to the shape of my room, so that will play a factor as well.

You could accomplish that using the TC-2000 and 22" tube.

I'd say it is certainly worth looking into. IIRC, Steve has basically said that a single Sonosub using the Rl-p should be enough for most people, in rooms that are not extremely big. Maybe there is something to the sonotube enclosure as opposed to the box, but eitherway, it is lighter (and easier to build?).
If the room is sealed, it should do quite well up to 4000-4500 cu ft or so. My room is right next to 3000 (but very open) and a single puts me in at 112dB peaks uncorrected at just below reference on material like SW II or The MATRIX. Plop in LOTR or WOTW and you'll get there sooner but still at a listening level that most wouldn't dream of viewing at.

As far as the sono being easier to build...I think most would tell you (that have built both) that the sono variety is harder to build. I know the enclosure is already built, but it just doesn't equate out. All subs are a puzzle to a certain extent, but think of the sono as being 750 piece puzzle versus a 500. Also figuring in no fast table saw work, it's a pure router affair because every cut or recess is round.

If the room is sealed, it should do quite well up to 4000-4500 cu ft or so. My room is right next to 3000 (but very open) and a single puts me in at 112dB peaks uncorrected at just below reference on material like SW II or The MATRIX. Plop in LOTR or WOTW and you'll get there sooner but still at a listening level that most wouldn't dream of viewing at.

As far as the sono being easier to build...I think most would tell you (that have built both) that the sono variety is harder to build. I know the enclosure is already built, but it just doesn't equate out. All subs are a puzzle to a certain extent, but think of the sono as being 750 piece puzzle versus a 500. Also figuring in no fast table saw work, it's a pure router affair because every cut or recess is round.

*sigh*

I just want the damn thing to build itself. :D

If the room is sealed, it should do quite well up to 4000-4500 cu ft or so. My room is right next to 3000 (but very open) and a single puts me in at 112dB peaks uncorrected at just below reference on material like SW II or The MATRIX.I have been trying to wrap my head around statements like this, what does the room size have to do with output capability? Yes, in a bigger room you don't get full room gain, but other than that what is there? I'm not trying to start anything, I have just asked others and tend to get flamed when I do. :rolleyes: I don't understand what you are trying to get across with the room size qualifier. Something just isn't clicking in my head. :confused: Is it to relate output to outdoor GP measurements?

Distance from the subwoofer will equate to output you hear as a direct result of what the sub is producing, but there is also room gain and boundary gain. As you mentioned, with a larger room, the sub output won't begin to couple with the room until much lower frequencies than a smaller room, so some low end output is lost in comparison to a smaller room. As for boundary gain, I'm not sure how close the sub has to be to a boundary to get the full 6db gain or some fraction of it, but the smaller the room, the closer the potential boundaries. Mark Seaton or Ed Mullen probably know the specifics on that one. Sub placement along the middle of a wall gives you two main boundaries - the floor and wall, so potential of up to 12db boundary gain that should affect all frequencies in the sub range. With corner placement, you have three. Stick the sub in a cutout, and you have four. With a small enough room, you might possibly be able to get some effects from five or six boundaries - 4 walls, floor and ceiling. Again, Mark or Ed would be a good source on this.

SteveC, this I understand but it doesn't explain the room size part.

I understand room and boundary gain and how they work, but I don't understand why people add the room size figures. Without a seating distance the comparisons are meaningless.

As long as you are +4ft from a wall, boundary gain isn't much an issue (~2db at 4ft if I remember right). Also boundary gain is 3db max at 10hz per wall right?

Say you have a 2000 cu ft room. You have the sub placed in the middle of a 13ft wall, at 9ft you get 110db at 65hz.

Now you move to a 4500 cu ft room. You place the sub in the middle of a 26ft wall, and at 9ft you get 108db at 65hz.

Now you move outside. You place the sub in the middle of a 45ft exterior wall, and at 9ft you get 107db at 65hz.

What does this tell you? It don't get it. :confused: This is the way I see it.

(This is an over simplified example. Changing the distance from the walls also effects the gain slope as well. I did not do the math for that. ;) If you are scratching your head check out this post from Evil Twin (http://www.htguide.com/forum/showpost.php4?p=138262&postcount=2) )

Played around in bassbox 6 pro and got these graphs. The driver was not in the database, so I hope I entered all the values correctly. This is using a sonotube that is 22x56.25 which gives me 11.3 cu/ft effective. This is with a 6" port, 27" long which gives a 14.6hz tune.

I have been trying to wrap my head around statements like this, what does the room size have to do with output capability? Yes, in a bigger room you don't get full room gain, but other than that what is there?
Distance from the sub comes up much as you know, but something I don't see very often is how close is your seating to a boundary. When I'm in the den just 5' away from my sub, I need to turn up the gain more in my 12 X 12 because I'm basically sitting in the middle of the room. Take the same sub out to the main and increase the distance and sq ft over double and it still takes pretty close to the same gain to come in calibrated due to my seating is up against the right boundary.
This is using a sonotube that is 22x56.25 which gives me 11.3 cu/ft effective.
I think 320 (base) liters seems to be the magic number with the TC.

SteveC, this I understand but it doesn't explain the room size part.
Sure it does. I mentioned room gain - the smaller the room, the earlier the onset of room gain, the more "free" output one gets. I mentioned boundary gain - the smaller the room, the more likely the sub is going to interact with boundaries, the more "free" output one gets.

Without a seating distance the comparisons are meaningless.
Seating distance should be included, but in regards to low end output benefitting from room gain, or overall output benefitting form boundary gain, room size should also be included. If Steve nn can get those 112db peaks at say 14hz in his wide open room, that says something, cause he isn't getting as much room gain as someone with a much smaller, closed off room.

Let's look at the Rythmic sealed 12" Servo unit. Crackyflipside has one in a corner of his 7'x10'x8' room, it is setup to be relatively flat to 10hz, and he is getting sufficient output. Crackyflipside then paid Chuck a visit and brought his sub - Chuck's listening room is 16'x24'x8' AND open to other rooms in his house. After setting it up to be flat to 10hz in a corner, and trying to do an 85db sweep from 9' away (which is pretty typical), it bottomed. Now distance to the seat in both of these circumstances is needed to make a valuable comparison, and I don't know cracky's, but let's assume an extreme case and say only 3'. A typical room isn't an anechoic chamber, so we'll assume 4db loss every doubling of distance, giving cracky 6db more headroom due to seating distance.

Now, 6db difference alone isn't going to make much of a difference with bottoming occuring at 85db. 91db isn't very loud for subwoofers. What's happening is that room gain is setting in much earlier (at a higher frequency) in cracky's room than Chuck's, and if we assume typical room gain to be 4-8db/octave, getting the onset of room gain at what I think calculates to be 56hz in cracky's room will play a VERY big role. Chuck's room, not taking into account the fact that it is open to other rooms in his house, wouldn't start seeing room gain until around 23hz - considering it is open to other rooms, that onset point will probably drop down into the teens. So even assuming worst case scenario of only 4db/octave of room gain, cracky is gonna have at least ~7db more gain in the teens than Chuck. Realistically, it's probably gonna be more like ~14db.

Finally, if a room was infinitely large, it would behave like an anechoic chamber, with NO room gain and little to no boundary gain - that definitely affects output levels seen at the seat.

We seem to have missed the question. This is what was said"If the room is sealed, it should do quite well up to 4000-4500 cu ft or so. My room is right next to 3000 (but very open) and a single puts me in at 112dB peaks uncorrected at just below reference on material like SW II or The MATRIX. This is a pretty common statement, so again what does this tell me? That is what I am asking. It just seems to generic a statement, too me. It is oversimplified, and you have to assume to much. Post 29 is a prime example of this.

Rythmic, Cracky, and I have already ran his problem through the grinder. It is also a bad example to use. Base measurements should not be run in a room that small. Every sub will do artificially better in a bedroom sized room, and when going to a medium sized room will fare worse. If doesn't change the fact that the bigger room is more representative of the subs true output.

Finally, if a room was infinitely large, it would behave like an anechoic chamber, with NO room gain and little to no boundary gain - that definitely affects output levels seen at the seat.There would be no resonate gain but if placed next to a wall, and set on the floor the boundary gain would still be there from two plains.

I apologize to the OP, I'll let this thread get back on track now.

This is a pretty common statement, so again what does this tell me? That is what I am asking
This tells you that the sub he is using will be capable of high output levels down low even if your room is wide open to other areas of the house.

This tells you that the sub he is using will be capable of high output levels down low even if your room is wide open to other areas of the house.The statement says nothing about extension. I know it is a capable sub, I have modeled it. I am aware of what it is capable of. That statement says nothing to that affect, however. Forget what you know about the sub, and read the quote again. Now what does it tell you? ;)

I'm asking questions for the newbies.

Forget what you know about the sub, and read the quote again. Now what does it tell you?
Minus doing a graph, what would you suggest the best way to phrase the subject soho? Because of all the variables, I'm at a loss to do any better than whats already been suggested.

EDIT> Here is a pic of sub placement to show just how open the sub placement is. I could also share how other subs fared in this location, but I would rather not go there. Anyway it's all good. I know that's pretty general though :D
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/stevenn/000_0059.jpg

Forget what you know about the sub, and read the quote again. Now what does it tell you?
Without the distance the sub is from the seating position, not too much. With the distance the sub is from the seating position, quite a bit.

Without the distance the sub is from the seating position, not too much. With the distance the sub is from the seating position, quite a bit.
You know when I originally made the post in mention, I had 12-14' away from sub placement down, but then elected to back it out thinking of the seating in the middle of the room instances. I now wish I would have left it like I had originally intended. Bosso brought this up a week ago in one of the Threads.

You know when I originally made the post in mention, I had 12-14' away from sub placement down, but then elected to back it out thinking of the seating in the middle of the room instances
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying? Are you saying you were getting 112db peaks in the SW flyby scene from 12-14' away?

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying? Are you saying you were getting 112db peaks in the SW flyby scene from 12-14' away?
Yes, but if I took the same measurement in a different location in the room (away from a boundary) ,but at the same distance.. it would come out different.

I gotcha.

Well it's been a few days, are you done with your sub parboy? Any pics? :D

Haha! I wish :) It won't be long though.....once I commit myself to a project I don't mess around. Received the go ahead from the wife :) I've got a few numbers of local places to try to find the sonotube on Monday. I'll place the orders for the driver and amp this week and start picking up the misc. parts. Im sure I'll have a few more questions as well..... Did you guys with the sonosubs use some sort of bracing between the two endcaps?

Did you guys with the sonosubs use some sort of bracing between the two endcaps?
Nope! no need to worry about that.
It won't be long though.....once I commit myself to a project I don't mess around. Received the go ahead from the wife
Not that my wife runs my bass management, but her support, or maybe I should say.. putting up with it, sure is helpful isn't it?

Well I see your a man on a mission, so don't let me get in your way. A starting word of advice might be to test on a piece of scrap and then actually try it out before you make any final end-cap cuts.

Minus doing a graph, what would you suggest the best way to phrase the subject soho?Your posts 22 and 29 together is a fine way. :D

Thanks Steve. Any little tips y'all might have for the best way to piece the puzzle together would be helpful as well. Like what cuts to make first, which cap to put on first, etc. I've been trying to figure out the best way to make the endcaps themselves. Im planning on using 2 pieces of 3/4" mdf inside the tube, then one piece of 3/4" mdf outside. I plan to make the outer piece 24". I know to cut the 2 inside pieces together after gluing them together. Is the best way to glue 2 together and cut to the inside diameter of the tube, then make the outer piece and attach it? Or put all 3 pieces together, then just cut down 1.5" to the inside diameter of the tube, leaving me a 24" section as the outer piece? I hope that makes sense.....

I put the bottom cap in first because it was much heavier than the top cap, it allowed me to make sure the wiring stayed put, allowed me a good base to rest the tunbe on for applying the top cap, and it allowed me to caulk the seem where the end cap met the tube. The top cap isn't caulked in place, just jammed in place, so if I ever need to mod the port or mess with the driver, it will be relatively easy.

For the legs, I attached them to the outer bottom cap layer first BEFORE glueing the inner two layers to it, otherwise you'd need like 5" screws. After inserting the bottom cap into the tube, I turned it upside down and then screwed the baseplate to the legs.

As for cutting, I'd make all three pieces seperately.

Thanks, that helps. So your saying that you cut each piece individually, only cutting 3/4" of mdf at a time, then glued them together after cutting to the right diameter?

Also, as for the fabric covering, did you cut it a little long and fold the excess over the ends and put the endcaps in to secure it? Or is there not enough room for that....

Well someone else will have to answer on routing the endcaps, mine were done by cnc. As for the fabric sock, I made it 6" less than the circumference of my tube and the exact length of my tube. This allowed me to stretch the fabic in both directions. Yes, I pulled material over the edges of the tube before putting the end caps in place, so when I put the endcaps in, it's keeping the sock stretched.

For a 22" or 24" tube, I wouldn't go 6" less wide though, maybe 4"?

What kind of fabric did you use for the sock? Is grillcloth too thin and open weave to cover the sonotube markings and what not?

BTW, I just placed the order for the buttkicker amp and the TC2000 15" single voice coil driver. Im getting ready to order a few things from parts express. Take a look and let me know if you can think of anything else I could get from there. binding posts (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=091-340&scqty=1), driver mounting kit (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=260-775&scqty=3) I suppose I could order some fabric from them also, if they have what is recommended to use for this purpose? I already have some banana jacks on hand to connect the sub and the amp.

You'd want to use something like this:http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=260-778for mounting the sub driver.

Right, that is what I posted above. I think it's the same, except the one I posted uses 2" screws instead of 1.5" screws like the one you listed. I just figured the 2" screws would be easier to deal with as I'll have 1.75" thickness to go thru with 2 pieces of 3/4" mdf and 1 piece of 1/4" osb. If there is any other difference, please let me know so I can get the correct parts.

Your sub is shaping up to be nearly identical to mine. Awesome. :cool:

Your posts 22 and 29 together is a fine way. :D
A little lesson in communication, thanks soho, but please don't charge me. :D Seriously though> Thank you for the pointer, at times I mention the FR/distance, but I'm admittedly a lazy poster :o
Like what cuts to make first,
The first thing you need to do is cut your sono to length with a fine toothed trim saw preferably. Be sure to use blue painters tape (or the like) to shore up the edges after doing so.. if you do decide to glue, the tape will assist in keeping the integrity of your sono. Actually you need not glue the bottom if you put a groove in your outer baffle face cap for the sono to rest in. It works pretty slick. Look at this pic closely and notice the inside terminals..http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/stevenn/100_2447.jpg it's not the best pic but it does allude to what I'm trying to convey.

After that cut your inside caps top and bottom. Your going to need four of them so take a piece of scrap and get it right first. (trust me, you want to do this) After doing so then move on to the outer three caps.
I know to cut the 2 inside pieces together after gluing them together. Is the best way to glue 2 together and cut to the inside diameter of the tube, then make the outer piece and attach it? Or put all 3 pieces together, then just cut down 1.5" to the inside diameter of the tube, leaving me a 24" section as the outer piece? I hope that makes sense.....
Your router can only go so deep, so cut them individually, but at the same time with the same setting and then glue the two top inside caps together. After doing that, you can then glue the 1.5" slab to the 24" outer top cap. Turned upside-down it will look something like this except your going with a full two inside caps on top. http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/stevenn/100_2308.jpg
Whoops! Before I go on, what will you be using for a guide with your router?

For cutting the sonotube, im going to try my best to get the place I purchase from to cut it to length for me......hopefully!

For cutting the mdf, I'll either make a template for the circle cut, or hopefully, the friend with the woodshop I plan to use has a circle cutting jig already :) The last time I was over there and cutting out holes for my car sub enclosure we actually used a roto tool with a jig and it worked pretty well.

Ok, so I cut the pieces seperately, at the same time with the same setting. For the top cap, do you cut the hole for the port in each piece individually, or after they are all glued together? And the same question goes for the bottom with the driver and terminal cutouts....

What kind of fabric did you use for the sock? Is grillcloth too thin and open weave to cover the sonotube markings and what not?
You don't want to use grillcloth. Find a material that won't let any light through but has some stretch to it. Don't go for anything with too much cotton, otherwise it will deform with the stretching as opposed to resist the stretching. The material I used is kinda like a neoprene but not shiny at all.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=260-424

Here's a part that I forgot to order and had shipped later for a small fortune. :D

or hopefully, the friend with the woodshop I plan to use has a circle cutting jig already For the top cap, do you cut the hole for the port in each piece individually, or after they are all glued together? And the same question goes for the bottom with the driver and terminal cutouts....
That's why I paused and wanted to know the type jig. If your using a compass jig (which I favor) you want to be sure not to cut your port first. Not that you would but things happen. :) Anyway unless you have a super-duper long bit for your router, your going to want to cut them and the holes individually. You can use the same pivot hole/point that you used on cutting out the caps if your using a compass jig or the like. This is very helpful in keeping all your caps consistent.

Do your terminals after all three caps are glued up. I would hold off on the permanent fit and leads until your finished painting though. Your terminals aren't going to be long enough, so your going to need to router yourself some finger room. >
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/stevenn/100_2340.jpg

For cutting the sonotube, im going to try my best to get the place I purchase from to cut it to length for me......hopefully! It won't be a clean or straight cut. It will be good enough for pouring footings or street light bases but not for a sub.

-Robert

It won't be a clean or straight cut. It will be good enough for pouring footings or street light bases but not for a sub.

-Robert

Does every supplie lack the ability to make a clean/straight cut?

Does every supplie lack the ability to make a clean/straight cut?
I don't know, but I wouldn't trust them to do it myself. If it is straight, will it be a frayed cut do to not using a fine toothed saw? All it takes is applying blue painters tape where your going to make the cut and then cutting it with a cheap fine toothed (thin blade) trim saw.

I don't know, but I wouldn't trust them to do it myself. If it is straight, will it be a frayed cut do to not using a fine toothed saw? All it takes is applying blue painters tape where your going to make the cut and then cutting it with a cheap fine toothed (thin blade) trim saw.

Well too late. Just got back from the supply with my tube. They cut it, and while the cuts are not perfect (some fray, but straight), there is a small difference in tube lengths (but nothing large).

Well too late. Just got back from the supply with my tube. They cut it, and while the cuts are not perfect (some fray, but straight), there is a small difference in tube lengths (but nothing large).
You can still line the edges/cuts with the blue painters tape though. Ok maybe the tape doesn't help, but the blue trim looks nice! ha ha :D No seriously> It will clean up the cuts and serve some other purposes.

Indeed steve. We have a good bit of extra blue painters tape left, so I might do that.

Called a few places today and nobody stocks the 22" tube. They can order it if needed. Actually went up tonight and measured and I think the 24" will get me better on height anyway due to the cant of my ceilings. After adding in the top/bottom caps and the 4" space between the floor plate and the bottom of the sub im looking at 62" or so using the 22" tube. I'll probably go and get the 24" tube tomorrow. New figures have me at 24x48.25 for 11.3 cu/ft (320 effective liters) after port and driver displacment. 6"x27" port gives me right around 14.5 hz tune.

That sounds pretty much dead-on parboy. (Identical to mine as well).

Sounds good (pun) Willd. Have you started construction of yours yet? I plan to hopefully get started on the cuts this weekend. Looks like the only thing I'll be waiting for is the psp flare port kit.....which I think you are waiting on as well. I spoke to someone at thriller audio yesterday and he said hopefully shipping end of next week. No big deal really for me as my amp and sub probably won't be here untill next week anyway....

No, but I will probably start in the next few days. I was thinking I'd get most of the work done before the ports get here so then I could finish the sub quickly.

Yeah, I am waiting on them, but I think it'll be worth it. I haven't spoken with them in a few days so I am glad that you have. Shipping the end of this week would be nicer...

Another quick question....how long should the dowell spacers be between the bottom of the sub and the floor plate? I just cut some at 4", but have seen others recommend 6-8". I can cut more if needed, so I just want to get it right if there is a specific length they need to be.

Another quick question....how long should the dowell spacers be between the bottom of the sub and the floor plate? I just cut some at 4", but have seen others recommend 6-8". I can cut more if needed, so I just want to get it right if there is a specific length they need to be.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g295/mrnick_2006/Picture391.jpg

Here's what 5" looks like..........


http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g295/mrnick_2006/Picture387.jpg

Thanks for the pics. I guess im ok at 4" height. Now is there some sort of trick for drilling thru 2.25" of wood and getting the legs to line up, other than just eyeballing it? ;)

I just countersunk a 3.5" screw in the mdf which left the screw point exposed about an inch and then after drilling the dowel just threaded it onto the base.

I use this guide (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=2405&SearchHandle=DADBDBDJDADADDDGGFDFDHDADIGBDHDCCNDJGBGCDECNDEG BGCDDCNGBDJDHGECNDDDFDDDBGEDHGCGEDBGDDFDEDADADADBDCDADADADFG EHCGJGMGMDADADCDEDADADCDADADADBDGEEEDEDEEEEEHEEEGEEEHEDEEEEE HEEEKDADADADBDFDADADADBDADADADADADADADADADADADADBDADADADADFG EHCGJGMGMDADADADBDB&filter=drill) to make sure I'm drilling straight. I got it at a Harbor Freight store for $12. There's one at the corner of Asher and University.

Line up the base plate and the bottom and clamp them together. Drill through the base and into the bottom. Repeat for each leg. Remove the base plate and use the partial holes in the bottom to continue to drill. To drill through the center of the dowel, use a center finder (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=688&SearchHandle=DADBDBDFDADADDDGGEGEDHGEDDGGDJGCCNGEDJGFGGCNDED EDHGECNDJGCDHDCCNGEDGDFDFDJDBDGGCGEDHGEDGDADADADBDADADADBDDG DGFGOHEGFHCCAGGGJGOGEGFHCDADADADEDADADADADADADADBDFDADADADBD ADADADADADADADADADADADADBDADADADBDDGDGFGOHEGFHCCAGGGJGOGEGFH CDADADADBDB&filter=center%20finder) to make your mark. Also available at Harbor Freight for $4.

-Robert

I'll be adding that drill guide to my rather large and growing "miscellaneous" list ;)

I went and picked up the sonotube today. You guys were right, they can't cut straight for anything! Im going to have to try to clean up the cut, making it a little straighter, and also cleaning up the frays their saw left. Fun fun fun.....

Just called TCsounds and it looks like I won't be getting my driver untill probably late next week. They are waiting on the magnets to come in before they can build them. They had a DVC model in stock, but no SVC's. damn......

I'll be adding that drill guide to my rather large and growing "miscellaneous" list ;)

I went and picked up the sonotube today. You guys were right, they can't cut straight for anything! Im going to have to try to clean up the cut, making it a little straighter, and also cleaning up the frays their saw left. Fun fun fun.....

Just called TCsounds and it looks like I won't be getting my driver untill probably late next week. They are waiting on the magnets to come in before they can build them. They had a DVC model in stock, but no SVC's. damn......

Sorry your supplier couldn't cut it well. If anything, mine were perfectly straight, but not without some fray/etc.

Did you get a look at what kind of cutting setup they used?

Sorry about the SVCs being out of stock. :)

It was the double roller with a circular saw attached. Put the tube on the rollers, press down with his foot on a pedal and it brings the saw up, then spin the tube.

No biggie really on the driver, I bet we will be waiting that long on the port anyway :( At any rate, I plan to make my endcaps this weekend and try to get everything done that I can. Im trying to get someone from either thriller audio or psp to get back in touch with me so I can find out how big I need to make the cutout for the port.

Really? That sounds like what my supplier used as well.

Yeah, who knows how long the port will take. The guys at ThrillerAudio have a habit of not answering their phone.

Edit: Nevermind. Mike from Thriller just called me back. He said that they are looking at having the ports ready for shipment on the monday after next. I am still trying to figure out the proper length of tube for between the flares but he said he wasn't exactly sure, so he'll have someone else who knows call me back.

I just got an email from Mike at PSP and he said they should have product to approve next Wednesday and they should ship on 10/11. He also said that the hole cutout will need to be 8 7/16th, so there's that if you need it. Let me know what you find out about the length please!

Guess I can go ahead and start pics of what I have.


http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/sonotube.jpg
Sonotube cut to length. I cleaned up the frays a little and checked the level and it seems pretty close. Close enough that I don't think im going to worry about cutting it again.


http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/sono_vs_svs1.jpg
Just a comparison shot between my pc-ultra and the sonotube.


http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/misc_parts1.jpg
A few of the misc parts I got from parts express today. Received my input terminals, t-nuts and screws, port grill, and off to the side are my banana plugs and speaker wire I had left over from a car audio application.

Man, it really dwarfs your Ultra.

Steve Gahm just called and we spoke about the port length.

Basically, to find out how long the tube between the internal and external port flares is, you subtract 5" from whatever your straight port length is in WinISD (or another program, etc).

So for my sub, since I need a straight/regular port length of 27.5", I need only 22.5" of tube between the two flares.

The total length (end of external flare to end of interal flare) will actually end up being 28.5" since 1/2" of each flare isn't included in the port length (because it is so 'flared', you know).

Hope that helps.

Thanks! So are you using 320 liters for your tube as well? Im just curious about your port length. I was planning on 27" for a 14.5hz tune. What is yours going to wind up being at 27.5"?

Went to home depot the other night and picked up all my supplies. It's amazing how fast little $4 and $6 items can add up to over $100! Well, about $40 of that was the mdf....but still.

I think, doing the calculations, my effective volume will be 322 liters (after subtracting volume taken up by port, driver, and the mdf plugs).

Actually, after messing around in unibox (which I believe is more accurrate), it looks like I only need 26.5" of port length for a 14.5Hz tune. Hmm...I may end up trying out various lengths of port and find out what the real tuning frequency is.

Of course I am also lining the sub with that foam, so that'll affect things a bit. I am not trying to tune it to some perfect, exact frequency. I think 27.5" effective port length will get me to a good spot.

I hear ya. Im using bassbox 6 pro for my model and I get right around 14.5hz with a 27" port. It actually lets me select a port model using 2 flared ends, so I would hope it's pretty accurate. I guess I'll need to trim off 2" of the extra 12" tube, attach the two together with pvc cement and a connecting ring, then attach the port ends for 27". Im also going to use the 2.5" acoustic foam lining around the interior of the tube. I'll be starting construction tomorrow, so I'll update with some pics after we finish for the day. Cant wait!!!

Excellent! I think I'll start to do a bit today. Maybe cut the plugs and endcaps out of the MDF.

I am also gonna track down some scrap 6" pipe so I can still use this badboy while I wait for my PSP ports.

Did you order the whole kit or just the flares to use with your own 6" ID tube?

Did you order the whole kit or just the flares to use with your own 6" ID tube?

I ended up ordering two of the 12" tubes as well. Before I planned on finding my own tube, but then i realized that they actually don't charge too much for the 12" tube, so I am going to have them ship it out with my previous order .

The driver arrived today!! I wasn't even expecting it untill next Friday, so talk about a nice surprise when I got home :)

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/driver1.jpg

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/driver2.jpg

Nics pics.

We got some work done today on mine. I'll update my thread soon.

Today was moving day! My buddy Scott came over and we got started around 9:00 this morning.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/drill_guide.jpg
Getting started here drilling a pilot hole for the circle jig using a portable drill guide.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/first_circles.jpg
The first circles cut out!

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/top_cap1.jpg
Here are the 2 inner pieces of the top cap being glued and clamped together.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/top_cap2.jpg
Here are all 3 pieces of the top cap being glued and clamped. You can see the bottom cap and floor plate with legs in the background. The legs are screwed in to the bottom piece, but we havent screwed them to the floorplate yet. Will of course wait untill after we install the driver.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/top_cap3.jpg
Here is the top cap all glued up and ready to install.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/bottom_cap1.jpg
Here are all 4 pieces of the bottom cap glued and clamped. Instead of running a 3.5" screw all the way thru for the legs, we just went thru the bottom piece, attached the legs, and then glued it in place. Worked out very well.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/floorplate.jpg
Here is a closeup of the bottom cap and floorplate. They are just sitting on top of each other, not screwed in yet.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/bottom_cap2.jpg
Here are all 4 pieces of the bottom cap with the legs installed.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/bottom_cap3.jpg
This is the inside of the bottom cap. We used a large forstner bit to cut holes for the input terminals. This will give us enough room to install the wire on the inside between the driver and terminals.

Ran into a few problems, nothing major thank goodness. Our biggest goof was drilling the holes for the t-nuts and bolts before making sure the bolt would fit in the driver holes! Doh! And of course, they didn't. I'll head out on Sunday and try to source some locally that will fit. Other than that, we got alot accomplished today. Both endcaps are ready to sand, prime, and paint. We'll get that going possibly Sunday as well, if not during the evenings next week. More to come, so stay tuned :)

I forgot to ask on HtGuide, but what diameter are your dowels?

I think they are 1 1/4". Either that or 1", sorry I can't remember right now. I'll measure them tomorrow and let you know for sure.

Yeah, I might go with 1.5", I just wanted to know if you thought yours were a good size.

I just measured them and they are 1" dowels. I think this size will work well.

I used 1 1/4" for mine that were 5" long.

Went to JoAnn's on Sunday and picked up 3 yards of headliner material. I think that it's going to look nice once it's on the tube. It's kind of stretchy, so it should cover pretty easily. Will hopefully finish up the sanding this week and start getting some primer and paint on her!

Not alot of progress today, but im just kind of taking my time now that the major stuff is out of the way and I have to wait for the port to get here anyway. The amp did show up today, so that is good news.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/amp1.jpg
Behold the mighty buttkicker :) 1100 watts at 4ohms, not too shabby.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/amp2.jpg
Just another angle for the amp.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/floor_plate_primed.jpg
This is the floorplate. Put a rough sand on it and put a first coat of primer on.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/top_cap_primed.jpg
This is the top cap, which is where the port will live. Also just a rough sand and first coat of primer. I spent alot of time sanding on the part of the cap that will go inside the tube, making sure it was level and smooth with no ridges to hold up progress.

That Buttkicker weighs more than you would expect, right?

That top cap looks great so far. Are you going to mount the port flare flush with the top?

Yeah man, that amp is heavy!

For the port, im just going to drop it in and screw it down. I cut the hole to the size told to me by PSP, so I hope it's right!

Indeed it is.

I was thinking about my increased internal volume due to the larger diameter...it seems as if I will be coming in closer to ~342 effective liters. I was thinking of tuning my sub even lower due to this. I might try the full 24" of tube + the flares from the start.

Another evening of sanding tonight. Scott brought over a power disc sander and we made some good progress. Got a nice smooth sand on all the pieces and layed the primer on thick. We'll sand again, prime, light sand, then spray the color on them. The pictures really don't do them justice, they look phenominal!

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/top_cap_sanded.jpg

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/bottom_cap_sanded.jpg

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/floor_plate_sanded.jpg

Excellent!

The ETA on the ports is still before the end of next week, right? I'll probably do a good bit of work this weekend in preparation.

I see you recycle eh? I won't get off on a tangent, but only aluminum recycling is a legitimate, worthwhile practice :)

Willd, as far as I know, the ports should be shipping next week. Oh, I got an email from them yesterday. I asked if the "inner" port was going to be smaller than the "outer" port so it could just drop right in the 8 7/16th hole. The answer is no, the inner and outer port flares will be the same size. That means you can either put the port together through your topcap port hole or sand some of the flange off the piece that goes inside so it will fit through the hole. Just an FYI.

Steve, good eyes :) Yes, we do recycle.

Expect to see a few pics with color by this weekend. I may try to go ahead and put my cover on as well....not sure yet though.

Concerning the inner port flare, yeah, I had figured it would be the same size. I plan on finshing up the bottom end-cap assembly completely, but leavining the top cap partially done. Considering the groove I have in the caps, I wasn't planning on permanently installing the top cap until I was set on the port length and everything was good to go. Then I might use some caulk.

I would prefer a non-permanent solution though, which I am still considering.

A little something I noticed is that you primered the face of the baffle where the driver sits. No problem, but it would be a good idea to sand the primer off do to the sealing ring will stick and if you ever have to remove the driver, problems are going to surface. I'm sad to say I speak from experience. :( :)

It appears as though your using primer spray, how would you sum it up as a option over brushing on the primer? Does it make the particles in the MDF stand after applying the first coat?

Thanks for the tip Steve. I'll take some sandpaper to the mounting surface and tape that off for future sprays.

As for the the spray on primer, I think it works good. It definetly shows the rough spots clearly. I thought we had it pretty smooth after the last sanding and could immediately see, after spraying the primer, a few spots we will have to sand again.

[QUOTE=SteveCallas]I see you recycle eh? I won't get off on a tangent, but only aluminum recycling is a legitimate, worthwhile practice :)[/QUOTE

why is aluminum the only legitimate/worthwhile recyclable?

PM sent.

why is aluminum the only legitimate/worthwhile recyclable?Try to find Penn and Tellers Bulls$!t episode on the subject. It's pretty good, and they hit most everything in it. :D

Another good day today! Scott came over and we did a final sand on all pieces and then put 2 coats of semi-gloss on everything. We also mounted the input terminals and the t-nuts for securing the driver in place. It turned out VERY nice IMO. All we are waiting for now is for the port to arrive, which will hopefully be sometime this week. Once that gets here we can get it mounted, then install the endcaps, liquid nails around the seams top and bottom, install the acoustic dampening panels, put the cover on, then get ready to rock!

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/bottom_cap_painted.jpg
This is the bottom cap, where the sub goes.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/top_cap_painted.jpg
This is the top cap, just waiting on the port to get here!!

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/floor_plate_painted.jpg
This is the floorplate.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/outside_terminals.jpg
These are the banana post input terminals.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/inside_terminals.jpg
This is the input terminals from the inside view.

Man Brian, I don't think I'll bother posting many more pics of my construction. I have to ramp it up here...

Im just ready to get this thing operational! I want to be ready to put everything together when the port gets here, so that's why I've been doing a little each day kinda thing :) Get'er dun Will ;)

Im just ready to get this thing operational! I want to be ready to put everything together when the port gets here, so that's why I've been doing a little each day kinda thing :) Get'er dun Will ;)

I hear ya. I can't wait to start 'er up. :D

I am for certain going to get some work done today. :)

what up fella's :D

i've been following the thread, and had some ideas on a line array LLT

sorta like the ds sound lab power tower

http://www.dssoundlabs.com/store/PowerTower03.jpg

http://www.dssoundlabs.com/store/PowerTower04.jpg

http://www.dssoundlabs.com/store/PowerTower07.jpg

http://www.dssoundlabs.com/store/PowerTower08.jpg

http://www.dssoundlabs.com/store/PowerTower09.jpg

http://www.dssoundlabs.com/store/PowerTower11.jpg


I'll be starting my own thread for this one. I'll be using 4 Ascendant Audio 12 inch Assassin's.

-wish me luck.

Those ports seem too small for 6 woofers.

yeah, & and only two at that.

nope, 4 ports 4 me :D

If ever there was a sub that would want to walk...or even tip over, that would be it :) Relatively high center of gravity, small base, and a wall of drivers exerting force in the same direction (though the direction alternates). Mids don't move enough air to be of concern, but a line array subwoofer probably could.

But I'll definitely be checking out your thread. You've been sitting on those drivers for a while haven't you?

If ever there was a sub that would want to walk...or even tip over, that would be it :) Relatively high center of gravity, small base, and a wall of drivers exerting force in the same direction (though the direction alternates). Mids don't move enough air to be of concern, but a line array subwoofer probably could.

But I'll definitely be checking out your thread. You've been sitting on those drivers for a while haven't you?


yes sir Steve,

i've been sitting on these puppies for a good minute. i was waiting until things were a little more calm after graduation. the real excuse was my knuckle head buddies from college wanted to pitch in and practice what they preach..er, help with the build.

Bobby(Tricky): Mechanical Engineering, Wayne: Civil Engineering, Matt(Shaggy): Music, Chris: Film Prod./Sound Design & Me: Neuroscience/Sensory Sciences

so things will get interesting :cool:


for my design, i plan on orienting the sub lying down, and wouldn't even ponder the notion of having it stand vertically that way. that just has accident written all over it.

I know some of you may have checked the website out already, but for those who didn't

enjoy...

DS Sound Labs Power Tower (http://www.dssoundlabs.com/Store/powertower.html)


spec wise, it seems luke warm to me, so all the better to improve on that.

at first glance, it seemed pretty cool, but now after researching a bit, it's a little too wimpy for my exact design goals ( Assassins likey LLT alot).

ETA on LineArrayLLT 10/06

The 6" flared ports are shipping from Thriller Audio! Mine has an ETA of tommorow, so I bet Brian will be getting his tommorow too.

Yep, got my tracking number last night and it's scheduled to arrive Wednesday! I plan to glue the port together, install it in the top cap, install both endcaps, and wrap the sonotube Wed evening and let everything sit overnight to get the fumes out. Then Thursday I'll put the driver in and go fire it up!

You aren't gonna fire it up until Thursday!? :)

I might throw mine together without finishing it just to see how it performs. :cool:

Im going to be patient and wait. I don't want to put the driver in there before the fumes from silicone and liquid nails have had a chance to get out as they can eat through the rubber surrounds on the driver. It's going to be hard, but im going to try ;)

Got alot done this evening.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/port_parts.jpg
The port arrived today! This is all the pieces which I had to put together with pvc cement. I had to put the top piece and the 2 tube sections together first, then install them in the port hole. Then I had to flip the whole thing over and install the inside flare from inside the tube.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/top_cap_sealed.jpg
While the pvc cement was drying on the port I went ahead and installed the top cap and got the seam sealed with liquid nails. It went in tight enough that I probably didn't need it, but I bought it so......

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/damp_panels_top.jpg
While I had the whole tube open I went ahead and glued in the first row of dampening panels since I had easy access.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/port_installed1.jpg
With those things out of the way I went ahead and installed the port and glued on the inside flare from inside the tube.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/top_cap_installed.jpg
Here is an outside shot of the top cap with the port installed.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/bottom_cap_installed.jpg
Next up was to install and seal the bottom cap. This is a shot after getting it in place in the tube. Once again, it was a very tight fit. Had to get creative with a method to hammer it in place without messing up the paint job!

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/port_installed2.jpg
This is a shot looking inside from the bottom. I have the second row of dampening panels glued in.

Everything is done as far as putting stuff together. I'll hopefully get the fabric covering on tomorrow, the driver installed, the floorplate screwed in. Then it's time to tote this beast upstairs and see what she's made of :)

I'm gonna hav'ta find some Sono now. ;)

That looks great Brian. :)

I'd have mine finished tommorow as well, but Thriller didn't send the two 12" tubes with my flares.... :(

So now I have to wait till they get in, whenever that'll be... :(

I'll just enjoy your impressions for the time being.

Edit: Did you cut one of those 12" tubes, or did you glue everything up uncut?

Looking really good Brian.

Will, I went ahead and cut one of the tubes down to 10". Just measured it off and used a hacksaw, then followed that up with some sandpaper to smooth it out. That stinks about them not sending the tubes. Make sure that you also get an extra connecting ring to join the 2 sections together. You'll have 3 rings total.

Thanks for the kind words guys! I'll hopefully have some finished pics this evening if all goes well.

looks good Brian.....

i ran into a slight snafu last night with a renovation project, so it looks like the date i set is going to be pushed back into mid-november:(

payboy, on those flares, it looks like there is about a 1/2" perimeter of flat plastic outside of where the actual flare radius ends - room for it to lay flush and room for the screws. Could you please measure how wide that flat section is and also measure what the diameter of the end of one of those ports is?

Steve - That bottom part of flat section is ~3/8", the top of it is 5/8". The "flare diameter" is ~7 13/16", while the total diameter is 9 1/4"

Thanks Willd. So if my calculations are correct, the radius of the flare is 29/32", or .90625", yes?

Thanks Willd. So if my calculations are correct, the radius of the flare is 29/32", or .90625", yes? That's good to know. I'll be buying a 1.5" roundover bit for my router and making my own flares.

-Robert

I think Ryan (---k---) got a 1.25" roundover bit for something like $80 if I'm not mistaken. If you intend on building a couple subs or other future speaker projects, seems like a pretty good investment. Hopefully I'll get to check out his new sub in a month or two and mooch the use of it to build some internal flares for my ports :)

I think Ryan (---k---) got a 1.25" roundover bit for something like $80 if I'm not mistaken. 1.5" roundover for $53 - link (http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bt_rndvr.html).

-Robert

Thanks for taking those measurements Will. I would have had a tough time of it with mine already in the tube!

Just counting the minutes until I get off work so I can go wrap this project up!

Will, I went ahead and cut one of the tubes down to 10". Just measured it off and used a hacksaw, then followed that up with some sandpaper to smooth it out. That stinks about them not sending the tubes. Make sure that you also get an extra connecting ring to join the 2 sections together. You'll have 3 rings total.

Thanks for the kind words guys! I'll hopefully have some finished pics this evening if all goes well.

Gotcha. :)

Yeah, it does. They'll be sending an extra connecting ring as well. :)

I can't wait till you have 'er fired up in your HT. :D

1.5" roundover for $53
Damn :eek: Maybe that is the site Ryan had mentioned, I'm not sure. Either way, that's a great deal. I gotta see what a 1.5" radius flare looks like :D

Today was the day it all came together! Scott came over around 7 and we got to it. First up was fixing one of the joints of the port. For some reason the pvc cement didn't grab ahold and it was loose. We fixed that and then put the fabric cover on the tube.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/driver_installed.jpg
Once we had the fabric on, we flipped her over and installed the driver. After that, all that was left was to screw in the floorplate and tote this beast upstairs. Talk about fun and not good for your back!

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/sono_vs_svs2.jpg
Just a shot comparing the sono to my svs pc-ultra.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/sono_vs_svs3.jpg
One more comparison shot.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/me_and_my_sono.jpg
And here I am standing next to the completed sonosub. Im 6' tall, so this thing isn't a baby by any means!

Ok, how does it sound you might ask? I have just 3 words for you.... ho-ly crap!!!!! I can't believe how amazing this sub reproduces the sound. It just absolutely puts you right in the action of the movie. Watching the gun fight scenes on Equilibrium, Open Range, and The Matrix is just jaw dropping fun! I still have more left in the sub I think. I didn't want to push it too hard on it's first time, so the amp volume was just past 12:00. I'll let it break in a little and then crank her up a tad more. Im going to have to have the smile surgically removed from my face :D I'll take a few more detailed pics of the finished product this weekend.

Lots of thanks to Scott for all his hard work on this project!

Damn! The shots of it next to te PC-Ultra and you standing next to it really demonstrate just how large it is.

We need more impressions though! Do you have an spl meter or mic to check the in-room frequency response?

Luckily, the rest of my port stuff was shipped FedEx Home Delivery, which apparently has a standard Saturday delivery service so I'll have mine all hooked up on Saturday. Are you gonna do any comparison between this and your Ultra? (of course we all know how much better the TC-2000 is, but just for the sake of reference...).

Excellent work! Sounds like you like it lol - welcome to the Brotherhood. You guys and your undersized baseplates though :rolleyes: ;) :)

You guys and your undersized baseplates though

Bah...who needs baseplates.

Congrat on the new sonosub. It sounds like you enjoy it. If you have SPL meter, take some measurements. I would like to see it compare to mines. I'll take some more measurements on my sonosub this weekend as well. I'm planning to move my sub around a bit.Im going to have to have the smile surgically removed from my face
I think your wife will soon remove that face of yours if you crank it up loud constantly :)

Al,

Will, I do have an spl meter and will do some FR tests this weekend. Hopefully, my installer friend will be coming over this weekend. He's doing a few little things for me around the house, but once thats done I plan to use his software and laptop to take some nice readings in room. I imagine it won't be long after that that he is asking me to help him build a sono ;) As for comparing it to the svs, I'd have to say it would take 3 of the pc-ultra's to come close to the sono. That's not a knock on the svs at all as I still think it's a great sounding and hard hitting sub. But there's just no way it can compare at less than half the size, half the power, and using a 12" vs the 15" in the sono.

Steve, thanks bro! I really appreciate all your help during this project!! After finishing this thing up at about 340 liters raw, I can really understand the size of your behemoth at more than twice that size! You are a mad man :) And like is not the word I would choose to describe I feel about this sub!

wackii, thankfully I have a VERY understanding wife when it comes to my electronic toys :) She enjoys them also, as I have a nice competition system in both my vehicles. I can hear her coming from around the corner when she's got the stereo cranked up!

I still have more left in the sub I think
Great pics Brian and Thank you for including yourself in one of them..it puts a face on a new Brotherhood member. The thing that is hard to fathom is the amount of headroom that's left in the tank (amp willing) when your already at such a high level as it is. It's the lower region that'll really amaze you. Your project looks absolutely stellar, great job. :cool:

I took a pic this morning and sent it off to my BETA for reference sake and thought I would post a few in your Thread since it correlates with what you posted. In no way shape or form is this meant as demeaning I assure you, but it does give a guy a good idea of size.. good or bad, depending on your view.

25-31PCi NSD custom tuned to 22 Hz....15" RL-p LLT
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/stevenn/100_2745.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/stevenn/100_2747.jpg

Very sexy. My how the Brotherhood has grown in the past 8 months. Subs for now, world domination later........indeed ;)

Very sexy. My how the Brotherhood has grown in the past 8 months. Subs for now, world domination later........indeed ;)
We're going to need a good 18" and 21" driver first before we take over Cuba as a starting point. ;)

Great job on your sub Brian. Really nice.

BTW STEVENN, that looks like mine on the left.

Carvin HD 900, 12g speaker wire, BFD and SPL meter awaiting it's arrival :)

More come.

Thanks again for all the kind words gents! Im just heading up to watch a movie, but decided to hook you guys up with a couple more pics :)

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/sono1.jpg

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/sono2.jpg

BTW STEVENN, that looks like mine on the left.
Hey Mike..How did you guess? Very soon, be thinking transit next week:)
but decided to hook you guys up with a couple more pics

It looks like a perfect fit and it's right at home. If you come back for intermission, what movie are you viewing? WOTW? :D Come on, you know you are. lol

LOL! No, didn't watch WOTW. To start with, we watched about an hour and a half's worth of my dvd demo discs I got from swithey in the thread here on this forum. Got to see the depth charge scene and the torpedo scene from u-571, the ring drop from LOTR 1, the cave troll scene from LOTR 2 (<-this is the one I think sounds the best thus far), the whale scene from finding nemo, blade 2 dts (awesome!), the haunting dts (also awesome, but really makes my walls vibrate horribly!), Titan AE, Monsters Inc., battling the robot on The Incredibles, the sonic wave gun fight in Minority Report (very cool), the cannon blasts from Master and Commander, etc....you guys get the picture :)

The movie we watched wasn't all that great, Waist Deep starring Tyrese. It had some nice bass with all the rap music which is about all I can say....oh well ;)

I really need to figure out some way to kill my wall rattles and vibrations. It's detracting from the experience when the sub hits certain freq's. I wonder if I can add another layer of sheetrock with some green glue from behind the walls? My room is a finished attic space, so I do have a fair amount of access behind the walls near the sub placement.

Brian, have you listened to much music since you've finished the sub? I saw that you mentioned it did sound quite tight, but I was wondering if you have explored music performance in more depth.

I really need to figure out some way to kill my wall rattles and vibrations. It's detracting from the experience when the sub hits certain freq's. I wonder if I can add another layer of sheetrock with some green glue from behind the walls? My room is a finished attic space, so I do have a fair amount of access behind the walls near the sub placement.
Once you throw some eq it's way, that ought to help some and give you a little more latitude?? I dunno, maybe..maybe not? I cant imagine firming up your room not helping though.

Will, I have not played any music with it yet. I'll play around with that this weekend.

Steve, my room is actually pretty good for not giving me any real dips/peaks. It does seem to fall off towards the crossover point though. Here is a FR graph I did with my svs. This is w/o any eq at all.

Here is a quick graph I did with the sonosub. The numbers are lower than the svs graph I posted earlier, but I had the volume turned down lower ;) I took two measurements, the blue line is with the receiver crossover set to 80hz and the pink like is it set to 100hz. Receiver was set to 7ch stereo, speakers off, sub only playing. I hope to have a much nicer and more representative graph tomorrow when my friend comes over with his high tech toys :)

Is this with sine waves from a test disc or is this a sweep? Also, I think it is important to test with the speakers on as well - preferably in a 2.1 setting. I realize you were just wanting to see what the sub would do on its own, but also make sure you test with the speakers too, as that resulting in room FR is what's most important.

I used test tones I downloaded off a website. It starts at 10hz and goes on up to 200 I believe, with 10 seconds for each freq. I measured using my radio shack meter from my listening position. I'll test again with the other speakers on and see what happens. It looks like I don't lose anything down low, but gain a little on the upper end with the crossover set to 100hz.

I'm download RoomEQ Wizard (free) along with the accompanying RS meter correction file. It's much easier, faster, more precise, and will measure down to 10hz.

I've just completed measure my sub again using RoomEQ Wizard. It takes me less than 15 mins to measure 5 different positions with and without BFD apply. It's an excellent software.

Al,

I'm download RoomEQ Wizard (free) along with the accompanying RS meter correction file. It's much easier, faster, more precise, and will measure down to 10hz.

But don't I have to have a laptop to bring into the room to make use of that program? I don't have one. My friend will be coming over tomorrow and he has some fancy software to take readings, so im hoping that will be nice and easy :)

Just having a little fun :)

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/b.denham2/sonosub/sono_biohazard.jpg

parboy, I just have to say now that I WANT ONE! I think I'll be looking to become a member of the brotherhood really soon.

parboy, I just have to say now that I WANT ONE! I think I'll be looking to become a member of the brotherhood really soon.

Go ahead and buy the TC-2000 15" now, since they are $50 off.

Yeah no doubt! Wish I got mine for that, but oh well. I'm still VERY happy with mine even at $50 more :)

My concern is the room that It'll be used in. You see its about 25' x 17' and open to a few other rooms without any doors. Actually its the central room of the house. Do you think in this specific case that using a sono design would be best? I have a corner that would just be perfect but before I take that step I'd like to be sure that this would be right for me and my room.

Well, I can't think of why it wouldn't be a better choice than another type of design.

If you have the room for it, I'd go for it.

I agree with Willd. No reason not to go with this design if you have the space for it.

Good to know to have you guys opinion on the subject. Space is really no concern but of course the all important WAF is..... I've braced her already and she really would like something to rock the house seeing that she loves her latin music so much. But thats another issue. How do you think it performs with music across the spectrum? Will I need to rely on my towers or is the sono dynamic enough to perform under both HT and music environments?

I never use my HT for music use, only movies, so I really can't comment on that. Check willd's thread on the last page for his impressions on music. He seemed pretty pleased with it's performance with music.

she really would like something to rock the house seeing that she loves her latin music so much. But thats another issue. How do you think it performs with music across the spectrum? Will I need to rely on my towers or is the sono dynamic enough to perform under both HT and music environments?

So she wants something that can rock the house with her latin music, and you want something that can perform well with both HT and music use?

This is a no-brainer, go with this LLT TC-2k design. Parboy uses his 100% for movies and I use mine probably 80% for music, and we are both very pleased....if that tells you anything.

With this sub, you get a naturally flatter FR into the teens, and in-room output capability well into the 110's. And of course, you can customize the aesthetics of the sub however you want. You can make the end caps a certain color to help match the decor and you could use any type of cloth or carpet you want to cover the sub.

Involve you wife in finishing area of it, she might actually have some fun with it. In the end, she would be pleased with how it looks and you will both love the performance.

Will I need to rely on my towers or is the sono dynamic enough to perform under both HT and music environments?
LLT's are overdamped designs, meaning that throughout most of the bass range, the driver is seeing very little air resistance. The driver's own suspension is the main spring force until the port comes into play, so in the musical bass region (>30hz), transient capability falls in line above a traditional ported and a small sealed and below an IB. Combined with the max output capability, dynamics from a LLT should be the least of your worries ;)

Parboy, i've read that the original screws you ordered didn't work. Do you think these will work instead as far as the diameter goes?
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=260-776
If the sub was recessed and i use two pieces of MDF it looks like it would be a tight fit but i like the idea of using a allen wrench, wouldn't want to use a regular screw and have the screw driver slip.

How many screws would you need for the TC-2000?

Another question concerning the binding post. If i am not mistaken you used these http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=091-340&scqty=1 Do they accept a regular banana jack and do you insert them in the side or is there enough room to use them in the bottom?

ecir, the screws you linked are the size I used, 10-32. Those fit in the mounting holes perfectly. The only problem is that the length of those at parts express are only 1.5" What I did was go to home depot and bought some of the 10-32 t-nuts and then some 2" 10-32 allen head bolts. The 1.5" may work, but I decided to go with the 2" anyway. The driver needs 8 bolts.

The binding posts you list are the exact ones I used. The banana plug inserts from the bottom. The hole on the side is only used if you want to use bare wire instead of the banana plugs.

Thanks parboy thats a big help.

Almost forgot to post it, but I took a max spl reading awhile back and wanted to share. The most we could get out of her was 117 db with the mic at the listening position, which is about 10ft away from the sub. I had the volume on my receiver at +5 and the gain on the buttkicker amp all the way up. I think this was at 38hz if I remember correctly. Put a big ole :D on my face! I still hope to post some nice graphs if I can ever get my friend to email them to me. He came over with an RTA, mic, and a tone generator.

117db from 10' away from a single 15" driver sub that is relatively flat to ~13hz that sounds great and only cost you what, maybe $800....NICE :D

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39426000/jpg/_39426166_203b_arnold_ap.jpg

117 dB @ 38 Hz. How about other frequencies? Was the FR relatively flat or was there a peak at 38 Hz?

Steve - :D :D :eek:

Richard - This was just for fun, not really doing a complete FR. We simply used the tone generator to find the loudest freq and then ramped up the volume to see what we could get. We did take complete FR measurements, which is what im trying to get from my friend who saved them on his laptop.

Super job Brian. What do you think of the Buttkicker amp? How does it compare to others you've used? I wonder why some don't like the Dayton 1000w plate amp?

I wonder why some don't like the Dayton 1000w plate amp?


It is more expensive and has a poor frequency response for a sub like this. It drops off rapidy around 18-19Hz.

Also, the single band PEQ is basically useless in the scheme of things.

Thanks jermar! I'll second what Willd said about the plate amp as well. For a nice LLT, you really want to go with a seperate pro amp like the buttkicker or one of the Behringher EP amps.