I do notice that I get more reliable reception if I remove all the splitter to each room. So I now just have one line into the Samsung directly. (I was having trouble getting ABC HD with the 5-1000mhz splitter).


I'm using a signal amplifier from Radio Shack before my splitter.



It's worth pointing out that the Samsung has a "air + cable" mode. Not show what kind of combiner you would use to combine the air channels with cable (I've heard they are on the same bandwidth..), but theoretically you can have both I guess. I tried using the splitter in reverse, didn't work. ;)
You can't have both cable and air on at the same time. The manual says to press the Antenna button on the remote when you switch antennas.

I have just gotten this for the exact same purpose. It works with my comcast basic cable. Comcast put a filter that blocks out channel 36-72, but I found no problem picking up the HD and digital channels. I do notice that I get more reliable reception if I remove all the splitter to each room. So I now just have one line into the Samsung directly. (I was having trouble getting ABC HD with the 5-1000mhz splitter).

It found 200+ channels. It was kind of tedious to flip through them all and write down which one has material. But I found all the local HD stations. On the Samsung, when you setup the channels, you can erase all stations on the current channels display "page" (each page shows about 20..), and manually add the ones you want on that page. Slightly faster than deleting them one by one. Several pages I was just using delete-all.

You DON'T get channel guide with cable. Which kinda sucks. You do get all the other info such as station-id (only with the FOX/CBS/ABC/PBS..), and info such as 480i, 720p, 1080i, etc. With OTA material you get the full channel guide.

It's worth pointing out that the Samsung has a "air + cable" mode. Not show what kind of combiner you would use to combine the air channels with cable (I've heard they are on the same bandwidth..), but theoretically you can have both I guess. I tried using the splitter in reverse, didn't work. ;)
Hi,
I'm a new one here. After reading some thread on this forum and I decided to give it a shot. I bought this Samsung DTB-H260F from CC on last Sat. and I could not get any channel from my basic digital Comcast cable at all. I also tried to have a look on signal strength and what I got was notthing, no sinal?????
Any experts are able to help out?? Or I have to return to CC.

Thanks in advanve for your help,
CD

I'm using a signal amplifier from Radio Shack before my splitter.



You can't have both cable and air on at the same time. The manual says to press the Antenna button on the remote when you switch antennas.


What kind of signal amplifier that you use?? Thanks.

Samsung DTB-H260F STB
Channels open, Comcast North of Boston

Bunch of Audio stations ~82?

80-7 Barker for On Demand
87-15 Barker for On Demand
100-19 The worldnetwork.org
104-101 Encore Barker Page
105-101 Barker for On Demand

112-1 ABC HD Ch 4
112-2 CBS HD Ch 5
112-3 NBC HD Ch 7

113-1 Fox HD Ch 25
113-2 WMUR 9 HD
113-3 NH HD



Hi,
I'm in Boston of Mass here, I have the same receiver but I can't get any channels at all. I have no signal, after scanning several times I got he same result. I bought this new from CC last Sat.. And I have a basic digital Comcast cable.
I hope you can help me out.

Thanks,

I have the same receiver but I can't get any channels at all. I have no signal, after scanning several times I got he same result. I bought this new from CC last Sat.. And I have a basic digital Comcast cable.

In my experience, you won't see any signal strength for a cable connection, only OTA. I'm assuming that when you had the box go through the Auto Program function, you selected Cable before scanning. Also make sure you have your RF cable connected to the Antenna/Cable IN jack.

If you subscribe to digital cable, it doesn't make sense for you to buy this box. In my area Comcast charges $5/month to rent their box, and their box will descramble the encrypted channels, something the Samsung box can't. With the Samsung box, you will only see the unencrypted or "Clear QAM" channels. It's going to take you 3 years to break even on the Samsung box vs. just paying Comcast the $5/month to rent an extra box.

In my experience, you won't see any signal strength for a cable connection, only OTA. I'm assuming that when you had the box go through the Auto Program function, you selected Cable before scanning. Also make sure you have your RF cable connected to the Antenna/Cable IN jack.

If you subscribe to digital cable, it doesn't make sense for you to buy this box. In my area Comcast charges $5/month to rent their box, and their box will descramble the encrypted channels, something the Samsung box can't. With the Samsung box, you will only see the unencrypted or "Clear QAM" channels. It's going to take you 3 years to break even on the Samsung box vs. just paying Comcast the $5/month to rent an extra box.
Thanks for the reply. I have everything setup correctly and nothing shows up even OTA. You have any idea???

What kind of signal amplifier that you use?? Thanks.

I'm using this one (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103092&cp=&sr=1&origkw=cable+tv+amplifier&kw=cable+tv+amplifier&parentPage=search).

I've found that the Samsung box requires a pretty strong signal. If you are using a splitter, try disconnecting the splitter and send the coax directly to the box to test if that is your problem.

MPEG-4 question... I'm trying to pick out a OTA DTV tuner and the big question is does it have to do mpeg4? I mean do the local station broadcast HD/DTV content in mpeg format at all?

The broadcasters use MPEG2 in accordance with the ATSC standards. MPEG4 is being usind by DirectTV and Dish for their HDTV programming.

The general consensus seemed to be that using a Harmony (expensive!) remote was the only real option and even that wasn't perfect because the dash key and a couple others aren't programmed in automatically.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11697662&highlight=replacement+remote#post11697662
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9994514&highlight=replacement+remote#post9994514

I was in this same boat - bought the Samsung from ebay with no remote. I have a Harmony 880 and verified that the Samsung was in their database before buying, only to find that there was no mapping of the "-" button.

I just got off the phone with Harmony tier 2 support. They did a search for any other Harmony users who had learned the "-" button (presumably via their original Samsung remote) and found one. They copied that mapping to my account and it works great.

So anyone who needs the "-" button mapped on their Harmony just needs to call Harmony tech support and give them my username and they can copy it from there. If you call without a username to copy it from, tier 1 support can't help you.

My username is the same as my email address so I don't want to post it here. PM me and I'll be happy to give it to you.

EDIT TO ADD: When I say "my username", I mean my username on the Harmony system, not my username on this forum.

FYI: The 260 has a DST function but it's manual. I just now noticed that all the programming in the guide was an hour off. :)

It's quickly fixed by an easily found setup function, it's just not done automatically.

FYI: The 260 has a DST function but it's manual. I just now noticed that all the programming in the guide was an hour off. :)

It's quickly fixed by an easily found setup function, it's just not done automatically.

Thanks - that explains why my clock is off. I had just assumed the local stations broadcasting the guide were wrong.

James

I'm currently living on campus @ a college. They transmit a few QAM signals over their cable. However, my tuner will intermittently some of them up and when it does they will keep dropping out now and then. There's only 1 stable channel. Is there any way to check whether it's the tuner or the reception I'm getting over the cable?

For starters, I love this thing! I live about 70-80 miles away from my signal towers and I can get every signal available in my area with this thing that I couldn't with my Accurian unit. Good line of site is still key though for I am located at a higher elevation area then the towers themselves (+/-100'). Its amazing that some channels are so weak, they don't even register in the signal strength bar, yet it manages to pull them in. If i would invest in a decent outdoor antenna, any signal issues I have would be taken care of I'm sure. For now, the little "rat-shack" antenna on top of my entertainment center works just fine. This unit would be perfect if it had DVR abilities like earlier models that are no longer available. Why there isn't any DVR OTA STB's yet is beyond me. Hopefully soon.

With that said, this brings me to my question ... Has anyone tried recording from this unit to a traditional VCR using the composite cables? I have a few programs on the local PBS-Create channel that I watch and would like to record for my Mom who hasn't any access to digital yet and isn't interested either (old people... haha). Currently, my unit is set at 480i and I’m hooked up straight to my TV via the component and the digital audio is out to my receiver for the 5.1 surround. I would like to record a program I am watching with my VCR using the composite connections. To record a program to my VCR, do I need to completely disconnect the cables I currently have connected to my TV and receiver from the STB to then use the composite hookups to the VCR for video and audio, or can I leave my component and audio connections connected and just add the composite cable straight to my VCR, without interfering my normal viewing of the program I am watching? Will one signal path be over ridden by the other? Now i realize i can't play "channel hopper" while recording, but I just don't want to face the hassle of disconnecting and reconnecting cables every time I want to record a program I'm watching. I plan on experimenting with this, but just thought i would ask to see if anyone has already tested it first.

Thanks for any and all help. This site has a great wealth of information. Thank you Alan for all that you do and provide for us. I may not post much, but i've been loitering forever!

Brian

To record a program to my VCR, do I need to completely disconnect the cables I currently have connected to my TV and receiver from the STB

I'm pretty sure the analog outputs are always active. I switch (using an AV receiver) between composite and the green component to get access to the menus/guide frequently. Just remember you can't change the aspect on the composite output so HD content will be squished to fit.

Works just fine (well - actually - I haven't gone to a VCR - but I do record on my PC via the composite video and transmit composite via my AV receiver / modulator to other TVs). Any 16:9 source material will be squashed into 4:3 frame - making things skinny. 4:3 sources come out correct. pillered 4:3 in a 16:9 source will be squashed.

I did a rescan (stupidly I see now! :() of my unencrypted QAM channels hoping to find more, but I actually ended up with LESS. I had been using my DTB-H260F for nearly a year without problems, but the rescan wiped out some channels (ones I wanted to keep) I watched right up to the day I did the rescan. Just to prove losing channels / me doing a rescan wasn't just a coincidence, I did a few tests:

- two particular channels (72.xx and 94.xx) remain unencrypted on another QAM tuner I have, so it's not a case of them becoming encrypted
- I used the same cable while checking the other tuner and the signal seems very strong
- the rescan still did find hundreds of channels (most encrypted), just not all the ones I was hoping to keep
- I rescanned several times again, trying all of STD, HRC, IRC - none of them were able to lock on 72.xx or 94.xx
- I manually tried to tune in 72.xx and 94.xx - again, no luck
- I can continue to watch 72.xx and 94.xx on another tv

Any ideas on how I can get my DTB-H260F to find these channels again?

Thanks!

Add the QAm channels manually.

Works just fine (well - actually - I haven't gone to a VCR - but I do record on my PC via the composite video and transmit composite via my AV receiver / modulator to other TVs). Any 16:9 source material will be squashed into 4:3 frame - making things skinny. 4:3 sources come out correct. pillered 4:3 in a 16:9 source will be squashed.

That's one of the things I like about the 260 - It sends out the whole image to the recording device. Lots of 4:3 TV's, including many Sony models, will allow you to squash the image back down, so that stretched 16:9 image recorded looks correct when played.

James

Add the QAm channels manually.

Can you with QAM? I know I can do it with OTA source, but I have to manually tune the "real" channel number, not the virtual (e.g.: 13.1, etc).

It may be a dumb question, but how would you know the real channel number on QAM, or does it matter?

James

For starters, I love this thing! I live about 70-80 miles away from my signal towers and I can get every signal available in my area with this thing that I couldn't with my Accurian unit. Good line of site is still key though for I am located at a higher elevation area then the towers themselves (+/-100'). Its amazing that some channels are so weak, they don't even register in the signal strength bar, yet it manages to pull them in. If i would invest in a decent outdoor antenna, any signal issues I have would be taken care of I'm sure. For now, the little "rat-shack" antenna on top of my entertainment center works just fine. This unit would be perfect if it had DVR abilities like earlier models that are no longer available. Why there isn't any DVR OTA STB's yet is beyond me. Hopefully soon.

With that said, this brings me to my question ... Has anyone tried recording from this unit to a traditional VCR using the composite cables? I have a few programs on the local PBS-Create channel that I watch and would like to record for my Mom who hasn't any access to digital yet and isn't interested either (old people... haha). Currently, my unit is set at 480i and I’m hooked up straight to my TV via the component and the digital audio is out to my receiver for the 5.1 surround. I would like to record a program I am watching with my VCR using the composite connections. To record a program to my VCR, do I need to completely disconnect the cables I currently have connected to my TV and receiver from the STB to then use the composite hookups to the VCR for video and audio, or can I leave my component and audio connections connected and just add the composite cable straight to my VCR, without interfering my normal viewing of the program I am watching? Will one signal path be over ridden by the other? Now i realize i can't play "channel hopper" while recording, but I just don't want to face the hassle of disconnecting and reconnecting cables every time I want to record a program I'm watching. I plan on experimenting with this, but just thought i would ask to see if anyone has already tested it first.

Thanks for any and all help. This site has a great wealth of information. Thank you Alan for all that you do and provide for us. I may not post much, but i've been loitering forever!

Brian

Your 260 is hooked to your TV just like mine. I also have a VCR hooked to the composite out, which is always active. No need to swap/reconnect cables all the time.

James

Can you with QAM? I know I can do it with OTA source, but I have to manually tune the "real" channel number, not the virtual (e.g.: 13.1, etc).

It may be a dumb question, but how would you know the real channel number on QAM, or does it matter?

James

That's a darn good question. I suppose a call to the cable company is not an option ? Or maybe check with his local area thread in the HDTV reception forum ?

That's a darn good question. I suppose a call to the cable company is not an option ? Or maybe check with his local area thread in the HDTV reception forum ?

I was thinking that the channel mapping might have something to do with it. If I can't get the real channel information, is it worth the time to try to add all channels manually?

It just seems weird that it works fine on my other tuner, and used to work fine on my DTB-H260F.

Thanks again!

It just seems weird that it works fine on my other tuner, and used to work fine on my DTB-H260F.

Have you tried rescanning with the other tuner?

Anybody notice the time is off on the Samsung when you press info?

Mine has been off ever since we switched to Daylight Savings Time.

I thought it was a station broadcast data issue but I found I had to go into settings and say No to daylight savings time to get it to show the correct time of day.

-Donb2

Have you tried rescanning with the other tuner?

Yes, and it keeps finding these 2 channels. That's why I think the issue is with the DTB-H260F and not that something has changed with the cable provider.

One theory I'm working on .....

My other tuner shows one channel I'm looking for as 72.17. Is it possible that it is being mapped there for a real channel yy.zz while another encrypted channel is mapped to yy.zz?? Given that the scan goes through the channels sequentially in ascending order, could it be the encrypted channel gets hit first so I can never get to the real channel for the unencypted one? Maybe I can find it if I clear the stored channels, then manually scan in a sequentially descending order!?!

Any thoughts on this theory? Thanks again!

Anybody notice the time is off on the Samsung when you press info?

Mine has been off ever since we switched to Daylight Savings Time.

I thought it was a station broadcast data issue but I found I had to go into settings and say No to daylight savings time to get it to show the correct time of day.

-Donb2

You need to change the DST setting in the set-up menu.

James

I had been having a similar problem where I couldn't get PBS-HD on my H260F but could get it on my T451. A few days ago when I turned on my H260F, I was pleasantly surprised that the PBS-HD channel magically appeared. I didn't do a rescan at all. The box must be smart enough to notice changes to channels, or maybe it sort of scans in the background while it's on?

I'm guessing it has something to do with the PSIP data (or whatever the QAM equivalent would be) that gets sent along with the channel. Either my local PBS (Milwaukee, WI) changed the data, or Time Warner Cable made a change to how it passes the signal on. The channel automatically got remapped to be 36-1, and I also got 5 MPTV digital channels (remapped to 10-1 thru 10-5). I knew all of these were available on my T451 but just couldn't get the H260F to pick them up. So it tells me the channel was there all along, but there was something in the stream that the H260F didn't like.

Now I know this doesn't really answer your question or help you out, but maybe it gives you hope that if your cable company or local channels made changes recently, if they change things back, your box may automatically pick up the channel.

Mike

Now I know this doesn't really answer your question or help you out, but maybe it gives you hope that if your cable company or local channels made changes recently, if they change things back, your box may automatically pick up the channel.

Mike, this DOES help. I'm starting to think that at some point between my original scan last spring and a few days ago, my cable company did change something that the H260F is sensitive to - possibly the mapping of the unencrypted channels. I do know from research that people who rent the cable company's STB had the channel lineup changed in the summer. But this didn't affect my H260F at the time - my problem only surfaced a few days ago when I rescanned.

I have "Expanded Basic" cable and was told if I rent a Set Top Box ($9.95/mo.), I would receive, without going up to the Digital tier, six HD stations, including one local network station (CBS). So, I'm interested in the QAM feature of the Samsung OTA receiver.

Currently, I receive my CBS station on cable Channel 8, but it is repeated in HD on my cable system's Channel 708 (the other HD things I would get are all in the 700s). Does this suggest that those channels are "encripted" and I would not be able to receive them with the Samsung receiver? Or is there any way to tell other than buying the unit and taking that chance)?

I have owned first generation Samsung OTA receiver (the 150) for several years and would upgrade if it would take the place of their STB, if only to receive CBS in HD. Plus there may be other advantages I don't know about.

Incidentally, we only receive one HD station OTA (NBC) and writing to the CBS station engineer about transmitting digitally, he said if they can't come up with $200K to do it, they aren't actually required by the FCC to go digital in Feb. 2009, because they are considered a "Class A LPTV" station. But that's a different subject.

I have "Expanded Basic" cable and was told if I rent a Set Top Box ($9.95/mo.), I would receive, without going up to the Digital tier, six HD stations, including one local network station (CBS). So, I'm interested in the QAM feature of the Samsung OTA receiver.

You should see if there's a local thread for your city or area here, they'd be more helpful in telling you if things are encrypted or not on your provider's service.

I have "Expanded Basic" cable and was told if I rent a Set Top Box ($9.95/mo.), I would receive, without going up to the Digital tier, six HD stations, including one local network station (CBS). So, I'm interested in the QAM feature of the Samsung OTA receiver.

Currently, I receive my CBS station on cable Channel 8, but it is repeated in HD on my cable system's Channel 708 (the other HD things I would get are all in the 700s). Does this suggest that those channels are "encripted" and I would not be able to receive them with the Samsung receiver? Or is there any way to tell other than buying the unit and taking that chance)?

I have owned first generation Samsung OTA receiver (the 150) for several years and would upgrade if it would take the place of their STB, if only to receive CBS in HD. Plus there may be other advantages I don't know about.

Incidentally, we only receive one HD station OTA (NBC) and writing to the CBS station engineer about transmitting digitally, he said if they can't come up with $200K to do it, they aren't actually required by the FCC to go digital in Feb. 2009, because they are considered a "Class A LPTV" station. But that's a different subject.

I'd bet they are encrypted for two reasons: 1) If the channels require a cable box, they are probably encrypted. 2) Cable companies charge a premium (while they can) for HD content, so again, I'd bet they are encrypted.

This is the first I've ever heard of any exclusions to the 09 FCC mandate for any/all OTA stations going digital. Does your local CBS affiliate expect everyone after Feb 09 to buy an A/B switch to watch their programming? I'd double check this technicians statement (and knowledge) of the FCC OTA digital mandate.

The station's engineer is not quite saying the whole truth.

LP do not have to be transmitting digital on Feb 17,2009 - however, the FCC WILL be setting a date for these as well (if it hasn't already).

There is NO requirement for any digital OTA broadcasters to do HDTV - only digital. So, essentially, all the station has to do is change out their current analog transmission path to a digital one when they get their digital assignment. I'm not saying that it wouldn't cost them $200,000 to do it - I'm not an expert in that field - but it wouldn't surprise me either.

And certainly - check on any local threads - they will certainly have more relevant info for you.

The station's engineer is not quite saying the whole truth.

LP do not have to be transmitting digital on Feb 17,2009 - however, the FCC WILL be setting a date for these as well (if it hasn't already).

There is NO requirement for any digital OTA broadcasters to do HDTV - only digital. So, essentially, all the station has to do is change out their current analog transmission path to a digital one when they get their digital assignment. I'm not saying that it wouldn't cost them $200,000 to do it - I'm not an expert in that field - but it wouldn't surprise me either.

And certainly - check on any local threads - they will certainly have more relevant info for you.

What exactly is LP? I'm aware of the difference between HD and digital, Alan G and his local CBS tech we're talking digital.

From a marketing standpoint I can't see a local OTA broadcaster (much less a network affiliate) not going digital by Feb 09. They would probably lose more than $200k in local ad revenues by staying analog compared to their local digital OTA competitors. I would think the local OTA digital competitors would gain market share by being the better PQ and not requiring manual switching by the consumer to view their content.

I'm not in the industry, but it just doesn't make sense to me. :(

LP after the station name means Low Power.

Let me explain that the local CBS channel engineer didn't say they wouldn't have to go digital, but "We are not required by the FCC to go digital at the same time because KAJ is a Class A LPTV and analog shut down has not been scheduled for that class of station by the FCC." I wonder if it has something to do with them having translators in real rural areas. As for the $200K upgrade - this is a small market and CBS hasn't seen fit to compete with our NBC station, which has been broadcasting digitally OTA for several years.

As for searching out a local forum to ask about QAM receivers and the ability to get that station in HD from our cable company (it's the only local network station they offer), there doesn't seem to be any. The cable company offers 16 HD channels, some premium, on their different digital packages, all in the 700 channel area. But they told me I could get 6 HD channels simlpy by renting their STB withOUT upgrading to a digital package. They include our CBS channel, TNT, ESPN, ESPN2, A&E, and Discovery. I thought the 700 numbers might suggest they , as well as the others, are encrypted.

The cable companies are not allowed to encrypt channels broadcast over the air (CBS, NBC, etc), but TNT, ESPN, Discovery are likely to be encrypted.

I've read in other forums that some cable companies leave these cannels "clear".

I thought the 700 numbers might suggest they , as well as the others, are encrypted.

There's no way to tell just by the channel number if the channel is encrypted or not. I have Comcast - they don't encrypt the local HD channels, but they do encrypt the other channels like ESPN and TNT so they can charge as many people as possible for their HD package.

Alan G. - we were suggesting you go seek out the appropriate forum in the Local forum - Local HDTV Info and Reception http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=45 - these are the people who might be able to give you a better handle on your local situation.

Alan G. - we were suggesting you go seek out the appropriate forum in the Local forum - Local HDTV Info and Reception http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=45 - these are the people who might be able to give you a better handle on your local situation.

....and/or buy this tuner from Best Buy or Circuit City and return it if it doesn't get the stations you are after.

My cable company encrypts ALL HD content including locals. Though the cable company does carry all locals in analog.

I'd still love to hear this technicians explanation on how he thinks people are going to tune in his station OTA after Feb 09. If they are struggling now with analog OTA competitors they will be in real serious trouble if they think people are going to manually switch inputs to watch their lower PQ analog content with digital OTA competitors. :)

I know it can be done, I just don't think many will do it.

Thanks to all for your responses. I'll look around more for Locals. (But it SOUNDS like I may luck out on getting CBS in HD!)

Hi, I just got this tuner and have tried it yesterday with my local cable service. This tuner is very good, but there is one drawback. I found that this tuner generated some noise into the RF link, both upstream and downstream, when it is turned off by the remote.
My setup is: cable -> DVD recorder -> 260F tuner -> HDTV antenna in. When the 260F is off, I can see clearly more noise if I use the tuner of the DVD recorder (upstream) or the tuner of the HDTV (analog channels). If the 260F is power up, then no noise. Anybody who also has encountered this and have a good solution? Splitting the cable signal into two probably won't improve on this as the noise will still be there. Right now, the only viable way is to have the tuner always on. Thanks in advance.

I've read elsewhere the tuner amplifies 4db when on, and I've noticed it seems to attenuate the RF output when the unit is off.

So, the solution may be to leave the tuner on.

I have my antenna split with one feed going to the samsung and another to an analog tuner. For some, splitting will cause too much loss of signal.

This is not just signal attenuation at the video out of the tuner. As you can see from my configuration, when the samsung tuner is off, even the upstream DVD recorder's tuner picked up significant noise in the analog channels (DVD recorder connected to HDTV via component in). That means the samsung somehow induced noises into the video link, even affecting the upstream device, when it is off.
Well, it's not the end of the world, but I just don't feel like having to leave some device on even when I can turn it off. :(

I've read elsewhere the tuner amplifies 4db when on, and I've noticed it seems to attenuate the RF output when the unit is off.

So, the solution may be to leave the tuner on.

I have my antenna split with one feed going to the samsung and another to an analog tuner. For some, splitting will cause too much loss of signal.

Is there any way to edit or rename the station name on the h260? After a channel scan some of the stations I want to keep are listed as 101-332 instead of ABC HD.

I know it has been recomended to not use a splitter for OTA and cable scans. After scanning both OTA and cable using direct feeds, should I still use an a/b switch for viewing? Or can a splitter work for non-scan viewing?

I'll gladly go buy a coax a/b switch if it will deliver a better picture and offer fewer potential problems. I'm guessing the two signals (OTA & cable) may introduce noise or interference issues into each other if not completely seperated?

Thanks for any input. :)

I know it has been recommended to not use a splitter for OTA and cable scans. After scanning both OTA and cable using direct feeds, should I still use an a/b switch for viewing? Or can a splitter work for non-scan viewing?

I'll gladly go buy a coax a/b switch if it will deliver a better picture and offer fewer potential problems. I'm guessing the two signals (OTA & cable) may introduce noise or interference issues into each other if not completely separated?

Thanks for any input. :)

I'm guessing the two signals (OTA & cable) may introduce noise or interference issues into each other if not completely seperated?

Same frequencies so yeah, that's why you have to use a switch. Maybe you could hunt down an electronic switch with a remote? If you find one cheaply let us know!

In OTA mode:

a) Can I scan only for digital channels and so exclude all the analog channels ?

b) Can I just enter the physical channel numbers instead of scanning if I know what they are?

In QAM mode:

Is there a way to find out the Comcast Free QAM channels numbers so they can be entered directly without channel scan and then laboriously eliminating all the encrypted channels ?

Tks

In OTA mode:

a) Can I scan only for digital channels and so exclude all the analog channels ?
The DTB-H260F only has a digital tuner, no analog tuner.

b) Can I just enter the physical channel numbers instead of scanning if I know what they are?
Yes. See www.tvfool.com for a list of real vs virtual channels in your area.

In QAM mode:

Is there a way to find out the Comcast Free QAM channels numbers so they can be entered directly without channel scan and then laboriously eliminating all the encrypted channels ?

Tks

Good question. I think the only way to find that out is to contact Comcast and see if they are willing to part with that info. Or go to you local Comcast HDTV discussion group and see if anyone there has that info.

sportflyer -

a. This tuner is digital only - OTA (ATSC / 8VSB) or digital cable (QAM) - it will not even see the analog cable channels. However, it will pass them through (as well as the digital signals)

B. Yes - but you need to know the "real" channels, not just the virtual ones.

Can't answer on the cable question.

I have my H260F connected to my receiver via HDMI. I have the H260F set to dolby digital, but my receiver says it is only getting PCM. Any ideas?

As for an A/B switch with a remote, Radio Shack has a nice one. It's item 15-1968. I picked one up yesterday and the only thing I could find lacking is an on/off switch on the remote, so it's powered on all the time.

If only the H260F had two inputs!

I have my H260F connected to my receiver via HDMI. I have the H260F set to dolby digital, but my receiver says it is only getting PCM. Any ideas?

Maybe you need to use the dolby digital (optical) out for your sound? I don't think the dolby digital sound is passed through the HDMI cable.

Yes it is - I have to leave mine set to PCM when I'm using my Samsung with my Olevia that doesn't have DD. When I set it to DD, the TV shows no sound (but I put the TOSLINK output to my AV receiver for DD5.1).

b) Can I just enter the physical channel numbers instead of scanning if I know what they are?

Yes, but there's a catch: if the Samsung has already "found" a virtual channel number that matches the one you're entering, it tunes to that channel instead of the physical channel you're trying to get.

For example, in one nearby city I have virtual channel 33 on physical channel 25. In another city I have virtual channel 25 on physical channel 8. If I start from scratch and add the second channel, I can't add the first one. I have to add the first channel, then the second one, in that order.

As for an A/B switch with a remote, Radio Shack has a nice one. It's item 15-1968. I picked one up yesterday and the only thing I could find lacking is an on/off switch on the remote, so it's powered on all the time.
Looking at the product page:
http://radioshack.com/sm-remote-control-a-b-switch--pi-2049643.html

$40 isn't that bad. Higher than I'd like but maybe the extra cost is for those two 75 watt inputs! :)

If only the H260F had two inputs!
So everyone here says!

Yes it is - I have to leave mine set to PCM when I'm using my Samsung with my Olevia that doesn't have DD. When I set it to DD, the TV shows no sound (but I put the TOSLINK output to my AV receiver for DD5.1).

Wait. Have you tried the HDMI to something that *does* do DD?

Wait. Have you tried the HDMI to something that *does* do DD?


Can't - don't have anything. What I CAN report is that when the only connector from my Samsung to my TV is set to DD - no sound - set to PCM - sound. I know my TV doesn't have DD capability, as the only audio outputs it has are analog red/white RCA jacks. At least it doesn't have the ability to decode DD from the HDMI port. It apparently DOES decode it's internal tuner to Dolby ProLogic. And that's all I can really say.

This could possibly be an issue with the HDMI cable - the same one that doesn't pass 1080i from the Samsung (people turn blue), but does pass 720p. Since I can watch what I want right now, getting another $40-$50 HDMI cable has not been a big priority with me right now. This cable that I'm using is one that was included with the TV when we bought it.

So perhaps my statement is overbroad ?

Edit - So I ordered another HDMI cable from Monoprice.com for $8 + shipping - we'll see if it makes any difference.

Wait. Have you tried the HDMI to something that *does* do DD?

Yes, DD works fine in my 5.1 system. H260f to a Yamaha RX-V2700 AVR via HDMI. DD, surround, Dolby PLII, PCM all work on my system via HDMI.

I need the H260f set to PCM if I want the audio passed to the TV speakers.

Also, keep in mind, not everything coming into the H260f is 5.1 DD even if it says so at the info screen. Some channels that "say" Dolby 5.1 are NEVER 5.1. And other channels are 5.1 on "some" programming, but not all programming. The above is true for both OTA & QAM.

Anyone know where to get a replacement remote controller for a good price? Just got the tuner but missing remote.

Anyone know where to get a replacement remote controller for a good price? Just got the tuner but missing remote.

Search the thread, it's been covered like five times.

I have kind of a complicated question, so bare with me. Here is the situation:

Currently in my house we have 3 HDTVs (50" Samsung Plasma, 42" Panasonic Plasma and 32" Toshiba LCD) and 1 27" Samsung SDTV. We are subscribed to Dish Network HD. We have 2 Dish ViP622 boxes. For those of you who don't know, the ViP622 can run two separate televisions.

The 50" Samsung is connected via HDMI, while a coax is run from the box to my little brother's room and connected to his 27" Samsung. He tunes his television to channel 73 and uses an RF remote to change the channel on the 622's second tuner.

The other ViP622 is in my mom's room connected to her 32" Toshiba, and I'm currently viewing the way my little brother is (not in HD). Mom says she would happily let the box be in my room because she doesn't watch anything in HD (mostly Nick-at-Nite stuff, etc.) The problem is her TV doesn't have a tuner (it's last years monitor model - 32HLC56 (http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/televisions/product.asp?model=32hlc56)).

So here is the $64,000 question: Could I use the Samsung H260F as a tuner for her TV?

Please let me know if you need more detail on the situation. TIA!

So here is the $64,000 question: Could I use the Samsung H260F as a tuner for her TV?

No. Use an old VCR. :)

edit - do you need to know where to send that $64K? ;)

No. Use an old VCR. :)

edit - do you need to know where to send that $64K? ;)

:lol: Haha! Sure!

But seriously, oh my gosh! Is it really so simple?! Connect coax to the VCR, connect composite cables from VCR to TV, tune VCR to channel 73 and BAM?! That never crossed my mind!

But seriously, oh my gosh! Is it really so simple?!

It should be, so long as the VCR isn't so old that it tunes channels above 36 "wrong" like some old cable-ready TVs seem to. You should be safe as long as it's not top-loading though.

If you don't have a VCR hit up your local Goodwill. They usually have at least half a dozen at any given time. It may not play tapes but then that's not what you're using it for! :)

Search the thread, it's been covered like five times.

Is there some huge black market of H260's out there? Maybe some guy at the factory but he only works on the BOX side and can only walk out the door with boxes and not remotes?

The number of posts here and elsewhere for "just bought this H260 but no remote" is simply astounding (compared to any other electronics forums I've ever read).

I'm not picking on HDholic, I'm truly curious. :)

I'd guess 75% or more of the boxes I see on Ebay don't have remotes, which is why so many people ask about it here. The one I bought on Ebay was without a remote, but that was fine because I own a Harmony.

I'd guess 75% or more of the boxes I see on Ebay don't have remotes, which is why so many people ask about it here. The one I bought on Ebay was without a remote, but that was fine because I own a Harmony.

I wonder what people are doing with these remotes? Maybe they are the same or similar remote for another Samsung box that go missing?

There is a conspiracy here somewhere, I just know it! :cool:

I've contacted Samsung about my problem and they have not yet responded. I also contacted Harman-Kardon (I have an AVR247) and they suggested that the problem is probably a communication issue betweeen the H260F and my projector. They say that since the projector can't accept DD, the H260F probably detects that and defaults to PCM. Does that sound plausible or are they just passing the buck so to speak?

I suppose I can test out the theory by disconnecting the projector from the the receiver so that I would basically be using the HDMI connection as a digital audio cable to see if the DD comes through without the projector holding it back.

I've contacted Samsung about my problem and they have not yet responded. I also contacted Harman-Kardon (I have an AVR247) and they suggested that the problem is probably a communication issue betweeen the H260F and my projector. They say that since the projector can't accept DD, the H260F probably detects that and defaults to PCM. Does that sound plausible or are they just passing the buck so to speak?

I suppose I can test out the theory by disconnecting the projector from the the receiver so that I would basically be using the HDMI connection as a digital audio cable to see if the DD comes through without the projector holding it back.

That doesn't sound correct to me. I have the same setup as you (as far as components, not makes & models) and I get DD. My tv is also not DD, just plain old analog speakers on the tv. To see if your projector is not the culprit (which I highly dought it is the culprit) simply disconnect the video out on your HK going to the projector and try your video source again.

In the H260f I can select audio as PCM or DD regardless of my tv's capabilities. If PCM then tv speakers work. If DD then no audio from the tv.

- Are you certain you are playing a DD source?
- Is the HK setup to auto detect the audio format?
- Can you force (manually select) DD on the HK?

I bought my H260F a year ago, and it works fine except for the bad zoom aspect ratio on an analog 4:3 TV. I use component and don't know about the others. It has 3 aspect ratios: letterbox, full, and zoom. Letterbox has the correct size, but is small and has 2" of black all around. Full increases the size vertically only and keeps the horizonal the same. This makes people tall and skinny. Zoom increases the "full" image proportionally in both directions filling the screen horizontally but over filling vertically, and the tall skinny people lose the tops of their heads. The "zoom" should zoom from the letterbox, not from the full aspect ratio in order to properly fill the screen. Their design team screwed up. Now, does anyone have a newer unit where this design flaw has been corrected?

First thing to check is that you have selected the proper format for your display - to me, it sounds like you are on the default 4:3, when you should go to 16:9 .

I bought my H260F a year ago, and it works fine except for the bad aspect ratios. I use component and don't know about the others. It has 3 aspect ratios: letterbox, full, and zoom. Letterbox has the correct size, but is small and has 2" of black all around. Full increases the size vertically only and keeps the horizonal the same. This makes people tall and skinny. Zoom increases the "full" image proportionally in both directions filling the screen horizontally but over filling vertically, and the tall skinny people lose the tops of their heads. The "zoom" should zoom from the letterbox, not from the full aspect ratio in order to properly fill the screen. This problem is true on both old analog sets and new lcd sets. Their design team screwed up. Now, does anyone have a newer unit where this design flaw has been corrected?

It's a known design flaw (at least in most owners opinions), Samsung claims they did it the right way despite what the manual say. According to Samsung L3 support, Zoom really means just that - ZOOM. There is no crop feature, which would make 4:3 images fill the 4:3 screen. Samsung also says there is no plan or method to fix this via firmware update, so were are stuck with it the way it is.

James

Regarding the DTB-H260F zoom and aspect ratio problem. I tried a few more things. It seems it works on a widescreen TV, but not on a 4:3 old TV using component input. It looks like the problem is that the screen w:h ratio does not work. The ratio is permanently stuck on 16:9 no matter whether you say 16:9 or 4:3. I tried changing it on both the 4:3 TV and my 16:9 TV. In both cases it made no difference which ratio was used. Even though the on screen menu says 4:3, it isn't changing things inside or the way the screen displays. But, it seems to be only the 4:3 zoom that is bad.

Regarding the DTB-H260F zoom and aspect ratio problem. I tried a few more things. It seems it works on a widescreen TV, but not on a 4:3 old TV using component input. It looks like the problem is that the screen w:h ratio does not work. The ratio is permanently stuck on 16:9 no matter whether you say 16:9 or 4:3. I tried changing it on both the 4:3 TV and my 16:9 TV. In both cases it made no difference which ratio was used. Even though the on screen menu says 4:3, it isn't changing things inside or the way the screen displays. Bottom line, you can change the monitor format in the setup from 16:9 to 4:3, but inside the software it's hardcoded to 16:9.

Are you sure your tv isn't stretching a 4:3 image to fill a 16:9 screen?

Are you sure your tv isn't stretching a 4:3 image to fill a 16:9 screen?

I **hate** that. I honestly don't know how people can stand that horizontal stretch. They do it because they think they *need* to use up all that screen real estate all the time but all it does is make the shows hard to watch.

Are you sure your tv isn't stretching a 4:3 image to fill a 16:9 screen?
The TV under discussion is a 27" analog 4:3 which is only about 3 years old and has all kinds of inputs. But the only way to see the STB menu is to use component. Looking at page 33 of the H260F manual in the 2nd row of pictures they show: source, letter box, full and zoom. The first 3 pictures are correct. But the 4th picture of zoom is not what the STB does. The zoom is erroneously from the full (not the letter box), it keeps the too tall aspect and loses the top and bottom of the vertical oval. I wish it did work the way the manual shows where the 4th picture is round and doesn't go off the top and bottom. They didn't follow their own manual.

Hold off there !

The only way to see the menus from the 260 is to get output on the COMPONENT or HDMI outputs - the composite and s-video connections don't display the menues AT ALL. To view them on a non-HD display, you set the output to 480i, then connect the Green component to the Yellow composite - then you get the menus in B/W greyscale.
And that (setting to 480i) should, if anything, lock the output to 4:3 - not 16:9. So, if you're seeing menues on your 4:3 27 inch TV in color - it has to be in component (3 cables).

The output on the composite / s-video output looks fine IF the displayed image is 4:3 - if it is 16:9, it squashes it up horizontally so the whole 16:9 image is in a 4:3 full screen image. But again - no menues on these outputs either.

At least that is my experiances with it.

"only way on component" Ya, Ya, I meant component. Too many "com" words. Colors, menus and everything else is perfect. Only that 16:9 zoom on the 4:3 TV is screwed up.

OK - this weekend (I don't know when yet) I'm going to do some playing with my Samsung and widescreen LCD TV via component to see what I get on various display options. See if I can replicate what you're seeing.

"See if I can replicate what you're seeing."

It seems to work on 16:9 LCD. It is only on 4:3 analog where the zoom is screwed up. None of the pictures on P 33 or 34 show it. Just take the 16:9 on 4:3 monitor full picture (the vertical egg) on p. 33 and blow it up by 33% losing the top and bottom of the oval. The only way to get a proper aspect ratio is with letter box, and that turns a 27" TV into a 23" TV.

"See if I can replicate what you're seeing."

It seems to work on 16:9 LCD. It is only on 4:3 analog where the zoom is screwed up. None of the pictures on P 33 or 34 show it. Just take the 16:9 on 4:3 monitor full picture (the vertical egg) on p. 33 and blow it up by 33% losing the top and bottom of the oval. The only way to get a proper aspect ratio is with letter box, and that turns a 27" TV into a 23" TV.

I think in many cases the aspect ratio issue with the H260f has a lot to do with your tv as well. You have to take into consideration how your tv is processing, interpreting and displaying the received signal. Combining aspect ratios and settings on both the H260f tuner and your tv may add to the problem, especially if you are using a 4:3 tv.

ex: My Panny plasma's full stretch 16:9 looks decent but obviously not where it should be inputting both cable and OTA. But on my NEC plasma, inputting cable or the H260f OTA, the NEC's full stretch 16:9 is incredibly accurate.

I'm not saying this is your problem per say, just an example of how one tv handles 16:9 stretch differently than another.

"how TV handles 16:9 stretch"

There is no stretch involved here. The TV is 4:3 and the H260F is set to output conventional analog tv 4:3 using the 480i switch option on the back. On p. 33 of the manual, 2nd line of pictures, the first 3 are seen as shown. However, the 4th picture showing zoom is not what the H260F does. It zooms the full, not the letter box, and the top and bottom of vertically streched pictures get lost off the screen. The most common use of this set top box fails to deliver what it should, which is the identical picture as seen on analog broadcasts or the middle section of digital broadcasts.

"how TV handles 16:9 stretch"

There is no stretch involved here. The TV is 4:3 and the H260F is set to output conventional analog tv 4:3 using the 480i switch option on the back. On p. 33 of the manual, 2nd line of pictures, the first 3 are seen as shown. However, the 4th picture showing zoom is not what the H260F does. It zooms the full, not the letter box, and the top and bottom of vertically streched pictures get lost off the screen. The most common use of this set top box fails to deliver what it should, which is the identical picture as seen on analog broadcasts or the middle section of digital broadcasts.

Then return it.

I was only trying to help in suggesting it *may* be how your tv handles the incoming aspect ratio, in combination with your tv's aspect ratios, in giving you a picture that is not to your liking.

Ok - my results , using my Sammy via component to my Olevia 232T 16:9 LCD.

When the Sammy is set to 480i or 480p, the TV interprets the signal as being for a 4:3 TV, regardless of the Screen Format position (either 16:9 or 4:3). To get the true 16:9, you will have to put it into 4:3 letterbox.

When the Sammy is set to 720p or 1080i - the TV uses the full screen as a 16:9. On a 4:3 program - set the Sammy to 16:9 pillorbox. The Sammys screen format setting DOES appear to work correctly.

So, in short for derbeck - 4:3 shows on a 4:3 broadcast should display in full screen, 16:9 transmission will have to be in letterbox to be in format, and this may mean a 4:3 show in a 16:9 transmission will look "postage stamped".

I'd say you're a victim of your TV's limitations - at least you can watch DTV with your current setup. Obviously, a new TV would take care of most of your complaints, but only you can say if you want to go there.

Ok - my results , using my Sammy via component to my Olevia 232T 16:9 LCD.

When the Sammy is set to 480i or 480p, the TV interprets the signal as being for a 4:3 TV, regardless of the Screen Format position (either 16:9 or 4:3). To get the true 16:9, you will have to put it into 4:3 letterbox.

When the Sammy is set to 720p or 1080i - the TV uses the full screen as a 16:9. On a 4:3 program - set the Sammy to 16:9 pillorbox. The Sammys screen format setting DOES appear to work correctly.

So, in short for derbeck - 4:3 shows on a 4:3 broadcast should display in full screen, 16:9 transmission will have to be in letterbox to be in format, and this may mean a 4:3 show in a 16:9 transmission will look "postage stamped".

I'd say you're a victim of your TV's limitations - at least you can watch DTV with your current setup. Obviously, a new TV would take care of most of your complaints, but only you can say if you want to go there.

That's what I was trying to explain. But you say it much better than I! :)

This may not be his problem, I was only suggesting it may be something to look into.

Thanks. ;)

So, in short for derbeck - 4:3 shows on a 4:3 broadcast should display in full screen, 16:9 transmission will have to be in letterbox to be in format, and this may mean a 4:3 show in a 16:9 transmission will look "postage stamped".

Tha's exactly right. The problem is that there are so many shows that are 4:3 being broadcast in 16:9, so they send out black bars on each side of the image. Not a problem for those who have a 16:9 screen, since the image will fit the height of the screen. With a 4:3 screen, you get the result described by Scooper.
The Samsung box itself does not have a design flaw, it does what the features say it will. However, it would have been a better move on Samsung's part to include a crop feature for 4:3 TV users to have the option to crop the sides of the image and zoom to fit a 4:3 screen. I'd trade the useless zoom feature for that in a heartbeat.
Just out of curiosity, since eventually I will have a 16:9 screen and may want to continue to use the 260, is there any real use for the zoom feature with a 16:9 screen?

I can't say that I've found any use for the zoom function on the Sammy - I'm either using my TV's builtin tuner (it has a real nice "Aspect" display option that maximizes the image vertically, then either pillorboxes the 4:3 program or full screens the 16:9 program) or when I use my Sammy - I use 16:9 full or 16:9 pillorbox for 4:3 programs. When the 4:3 source that I'm watching is showing a letterboxed show (lots of newer Discovery channel stuff these days), I've found that my TV's Zoom1 aspect display option works real well to make that a full screen.

Design flaw on the Sammy - Not showing the menues on the NTSC outputs was a totally boneheaded decision. If it didn't have this flaw - I'd be all set for Feb 17,2009 for all TVs - I'd just move the Sammy to my 19 inch NTSC TV in the kitchen and let it go. As it is - yes, I WILL be getting at least a couple "coupon boxes", and maybe some that I don't use a coupon for

is there any real use for the zoom feature with a 16:9 screen?

I never use it myself. The only modes I use are "Full" (for HD 16:9 channels) and "Normal" (which puts pillar bars on a 4:3 480i channel). Unfortunately the Samsung doesn't switch automatically between the two modes according to whether the channel is SD or HD, nor does it "remember" your preferred setting for each channel. So if you switch back and forth between SD and HD channels a lot, you're going to be hitting that aspect-ratio button a lot. For me it's not a big problem, because I'm OTA only and most of the channels that I watch are HD. I don't mind "stretch-o-vision" when I'm looking at NBC Weather Plus for a few minutes.

The one use I can think of for the "Zoom" mode on a 16:9 TV would be for 16:9 material that is letterboxed into a 4:3 frame, which is in turn pillarboxed into an HD signal. Objects come out in the correct aspect ratio, but they're kind of blurry because you're just stretching the lower-resolution image data. It does not work for 16:9 material that is simply letterboxed into a 4:3 SD signal, like my PBS SD subchannels do a lot. The image stretches too much horizontally, distorting objects on the screen.

I never use it myself. The only modes I use are "Full" (for HD 16:9 channels) and "Normal" (which puts pillar bars on a 4:3 480i channel). Unfortunately the Samsung doesn't switch automatically between the two modes according to whether the channel is SD or HD, nor does it "remember" your preferred setting for each channel. So if you switch back and forth between SD and HD channels a lot, you're going to be hitting that aspect-ratio button a lot. ...

As far as I am concerned, that is the major design error that caused me to return the Samsung box after a week. I have a $170 Polaroid 19" HDTV that is more user friendly and smarter than that.

Design flaw on the Sammy - Not showing the menues on the NTSC outputs was a totally boneheaded decision. If it didn't have this flaw - I'd be all set for Feb 17,2009 for all TVs - I'd just move the Sammy to my 19 inch NTSC TV in the kitchen and let it go. As it is - yes, I WILL be getting at least a couple "coupon boxes", and maybe some that I don't use a coupon for

To add to that - If they did include the menu on the NTSC outs, I still would want the ability to turn them off and on. That way if you are recording from the box you don't record menu items.

I'll be in line, hopefully near the front, for my two coupon boxes. Gotta put those tax dollars to use! I'll believe the aspect ratio feature is better on them when I see it though.

To add to that - If they did include the menu on the NTSC outs, I still would want the ability to turn them off and on. That way if you are recording from the box you don't record menu items.



Now THAT would rock ! Everybody could be happy.

I apologize if this has been brought up already, but I am sure I'm getting black crush with my Sammy hooked up to my JVC RS1 front projector. Are any of you experiencing black crush, and if so, have you come up with a way to get the blacks to show properly? It's driving me crazy!

Edit: BTW, I use HDMI out and am not experiencing black crush with Blu-Ray, HD-DVD or SD-DVD. It was really evident while watching "NUMB3RS" Friday night. In dark scenes it was really hard to see what was going on. This could be a product of the show, but I've never noticed that with SD broadcasts on my CRT TVs.

Is the Samsung H260F doing what it was supposed to do? I think not. It may work on a 16:9 TV, but it has several design faults on an old 4:3. First, the 4:3 zoom does not work like it is supposed to, and second, the lack of a menu without component or HDMI.

In January the coupons will be available for people who want to hook up their old 4:3 sets so that they will be able to see them on digital TV. Now, these people don't want to see short, fat people, or tall, skinny people on their TV. They want to watch their shows exactly as they have been watching them. And, the middle section of most 16:9 broadcasts is exactly what they have been seeing before. Probably 80% of current digital broadcasting is 4:3 programming in the middle of a 16:9 signal. What they want to see is the top and bottom lining up with the top and bottom of their screen, just as it always has. Then, anything left over on the sides can get cut off. Today, even when broadcasters put out a 16:9 picture, there is nothing of any importance on the sides (except for those football games).

So the goal of a digital receiver box manufacturer should be to try to make the picture from the digital channel look identical to the old analog picture. I believe that Samsung intended on doing that. If you look at page 33 of the H260 manual and the second row of pictures, the last picture on the right is an attempt to do just what is stated above. The top and bottom correctly line up with the TV top and bottom where nothing gets lost vertically. The circle is a circle, not an oval, so that the correct 1:1 vertical to horizontal aspect is maintained. And, the less important (or nonexistant) part of the picture on the sides is cut. On 4:3 programming nothing is lost and the picture is just what was on the analog channel.

Now using this zoom feature on 4:3 is the only way to fill the screen without having a postage stamp picture in the middle, or losing something from the top or bottom. Unfortunately, the engineers and programmers did not do what the design called for with regards to this zoom setting. The picture in the manual shows exactly what should happen, but it doesn't. Instead of proportionally increasing the letter box picture, the zoom proportionally increases the full picture (which is already distorted). The result is that the circle is now distorted and a vertical oval with the top and bottom beyond the screen and cut off. This is using component cables.

Using a simple old single video cable, where there are no menu controls, the picture is fixed in the full format which similarly is distorted vertically. In this format the picture never fills the screen horizontally. Even if you change momentarily to component to switch the format to zoom, that does not affect the video cable output; it remains at full. In either case there is vertical distortion.

It appears that Samsung realizes their mistake, but has no intention of fixing it because it would cost too much. They will make their money on the few people who bought 16:9 HD TVs without tuners (where it works), and they will forgo the bulk of the people with old 4:3 TVs. Evidently RCA and LG will be filling that slot starting in January with $60 SD digital receivers/converters.

Is the Samsung H260F doing what it was supposed to do? I think not. It may work on a 16:9 TV, but it has several design faults on an old 4:3. First, the 4:3 zoom does not work like it is supposed to, and second, the lack of a menu without component or HDMI.

In January the coupons will be available for people who want to hook up their old 4:3 sets so that they will be able to see them on digital TV. Now, these people don't want to see short, fat people, or tall, skinny people on their TV. They want to watch their shows exactly as they have been watching them. And, the middle section of most 16:9 broadcasts is exactly what they have been seeing before. Probably 80% of current digital broadcasting is 4:3 programming in the middle of a 16:9 signal. What they want to see is the top and bottom lining up with the top and bottom of their screen, just as it always has. Then, anything left over on the sides can get cut off. Today, even when broadcasters put out a 16:9 picture, there is nothing of any importance on the sides (except for those football games).

So the goal of a digital receiver box manufacturer should be to try to make the picture from the digital channel look identical to the old analog picture. I believe that Samsung intended on doing that. If you look at page 33 of the H260 manual and the second row of pictures, the last picture on the right is an attempt to do just what is stated above. The top and bottom correctly line up with the TV top and bottom where nothing gets lost vertically. The circle is a circle, not an oval, so that the correct 1:1 vertical to horizontal aspect is maintained. And, the less important (or nonexistant) part of the picture on the sides is cut. On 4:3 programming nothing is lost and the picture is just what was on the analog channel.

Now using this zoom feature on 4:3 is the only way to fill the screen without having a postage stamp picture in the middle, or losing something from the top or bottom. Unfortunately, the engineers and programmers did not do what the design called for with regards to this zoom setting. The picture in the manual shows exactly what should happen, but it doesn't. Instead of proportionally increasing the letter box picture, the zoom proportionally increases the full picture (which is already distorted). The result is that the circle is now distorted and a vertical oval with the top and bottom beyond the screen and cut off. This is using component cables.

Using a simple old single video cable, where there are no menu controls, the picture is fixed in the full format which similarly is distorted vertically. In this format the picture never fills the screen horizontally. Even if you change momentarily to component to switch the format to zoom, that does not affect the video cable output; it remains at full. In either case there is vertical distortion.

It appears that Samsung realizes their mistake, but has no intention of fixing it because it would cost too much. They will make their money on the few people who bought 16:9 HD TVs without tuners (where it works), and they will forgo the bulk of the people with old 4:3 TVs. Evidently RCA and LG will be filling that slot starting in January with $60 SD digital receivers/converters.

It has been covered before, but I agree with you that this is not a good set top box for someone who wants to use their analog TV to get OTA programming after 2009. It would have been easy for Samsung to add a couple of features that would have provided this functionality, but for some reason they didn't do it. I understand that it is frustrating if that is what you wanted to use it for, but I don't agree with you that this product was meant for this purpose for the following reasons:

1. This box is not cheap. If someone doesn't want to spend $300 for a new TV, why would they want to spend $175 to continue using their old analog TV?

2. The box was released in 2006. People who want to hold on to their old TVs as long as possible aren't going to switch until they have to, and there will be other cheap boxes available at that time.

3. It contains a QAM tuner, which can only be used with cable TV. This is of no use to someone getting OTA programming.

I believe that this product is intended for people who want to have a high quality picture on high quality equipment that does not have an internal tuner. I use mine on a digital 16:9 projector - if I didn't have this box I would have to rent a box from the cable company if I want to watch HD TV on my projector. The Samsung box fits my needs very nicely. I think you may be underestimating the the number of people who use this box similar to the way I do.

I'd like to know how the Sammy works on a 4:3 1080i or a 4:3 720p display before I declare that it doesn't work . Obviously - the 480x in component and the s-video / composite outputs are what we would consider "broken".

BTW - the $60 SD DTV converter boxes will not have HD video nor digital audio outputs - they will be strictly s-video / composite / RF modulator output. It will be an open question how they will handle these other situations - I would hope they try to full screen on the 4:3 SD displays, doing centercuts of 16:9 programs and/or offering letterbox.

I have a 14 INCH sdtv with a digital tuner that does exactly that.

I eventually found a DTB-H260F at BB and bought it. It does wonders with my old analog TV, and I get 27 digital stations from 40 miles away from Seattle (using a new 40" UHF antenna from Radio Shack). The menu works great connecting to component jacks on the TV. The result is sort of 1/2 way to HDTV for a very cheap price. I don't have or want cable. Since all the main Seattle TV stations have a digital channel, you don't really need the old analog channels.

Sounds like you got some GREAT benefits with the minor inconvenience of the screen not always filling exactly as you would like.

It may still be an aspect ratio design flaw in accommodating old analog 4:3 tv's (which is not the intended market for this tuner), but overall, I'd say you got your $ 179.00 worth from this little box. :)

If the 4:3 zoom bugs you that much, just buy one of the $ 60.00 SD digital to analog converter boxes you were touting and put your H260f on ebay. You should have no trouble selling it. But I'm betting you may very well miss some of the additional features the H260f has over those simple converter boxes.

BTW - the $60 SD DTV converter boxes will not have HD video nor digital audio outputs - they will be strictly s-video / composite / RF modulator output. It will be an open question how they will handle these other situations - I would hope they try to full screen on the 4:3 SD displays, doing centercuts of 16:9 programs and/or offering letterbox.

I have a 14 INCH sdtv with a digital tuner that does exactly that.

As did my old Sony SAT 200. It had a button on the remote to directly access the aspect ratios. One of them was called "crop". It did EXACTLY what many 260 owners wish their boxes do - crop the edges of 16:9 broadcasts and zoom the image to fit 4:3 TV's perfectly with no distortion.
However, for me the benefits of the 260 over the Sony, which I won't go into here, outweighed the lack of a crop feature.
IMHO, the 260 was designed for those who bought widescreen "HDTV Ready" TV's which were popular a few years back. The composite and coax outs were designed to pass the entire signal, not a cropped signal or otherwise stretched or distorted, so that your recorder of choice would record the entire signal free of menu graphics, and then let the TV's aspect ratio choices deal with how to display the recorded image.
I'm probably one of the few who uses the 260 with a Sony Wega TV, which has component inputs (so I can see menu options) and has the ability to "squish" the image vertically, so recorded images can be made to appear correct.

So the goal of a digital receiver box manufacturer should be to try to make the picture from the digital channel look identical to the old analog picture. I believe that Samsung intended on doing that. If you look at page 33 of the H260 manual and the second row of pictures, the last picture on the right is an attempt to do just what is stated above. The top and bottom correctly line up with the TV top and bottom where nothing gets lost vertically. The circle is a circle, not an oval, so that the correct 1:1 vertical to horizontal aspect is maintained. And, the less important (or nonexistant) part of the picture on the sides is cut. On 4:3 programming nothing is lost and the picture is just what was on the analog channel.

I called Samsung on the exact issue. I spoke to a "level 3 tech" and was able to demonstrate to him the difference between pg 33 and how the box actually operates. He wasn't very nice and claimed that the manual had an error. I told him that if the box operated like the manual stated, I would not have had an issue. They would not do anything for me, and told me flat out there was no plans for a firmware update, nor could they fix even if they wanted to.
Any hackers out there? Please prove Samsung wrong!

Ok...I finally had some time to troubleshoot the issues I'm having. Sorry for the delay.

Here are links to my previous posts since it's not always easy to find what a person is talking about in these long threads. Relevant replies follow each link.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12326220#post12326220

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12350782#post12350782

Well, Toby10 was correct. I wasn't watching a program with DD, so it defaulted to PCM. Yes, my H-K does auto detect audio format and no you cannot force any sound program that it doesn't detect.

I tried a program that I am sure has DD and I get no sound at all. It is acting as if it is connected to a TV not an A/V receiver. I am 100% sure my receiver can accept DD over HDMI because my HD-A2 outputs DD for regular DVDs. I tried to disconnect the projector from the receiver to see if that would clear up any HDMI communication issues and i still got no sound.

I connected the H260F with an optical cable and I get the DD bitstream no problem. I can leave it like that, but there is no reason I should have to use a second cable for audio since that is one of the main points to using HDMI in the first place.

Ok...I finally had some time to troubleshoot the issues I'm having. Sorry for the delay.

Here are links to my previous posts since it's not always easy to find what a person is talking about in these long threads. Relevant replies follow each link.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12326220#post12326220

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12350782#post12350782

Well, Toby10 was correct. I wasn't watching a program with DD, so it defaulted to PCM. Yes, my H-K does auto detect audio format and no you cannot force any sound program that it doesn't detect.

I tried a program that I am sure has DD and I get no sound at all. It is acting as if it is connected to a TV not an A/V receiver. I am 100% sure my receiver can accept DD over HDMI because my HD-A2 outputs DD for regular DVDs. I tried to disconnect the projector from the receiver to see if that would clear up any HDMI communication issues and i still got no sound.

I connected the H260F with an optical cable and I get the DD bitstream no problem. I can leave it like that, but there is no reason I should have to use a second cable for audio since that is one of the main points to using HDMI in the first place.

And I can confirm that DD does work properly over HDMI as that is my audio input from the H260f. You are correct that an additional audio cable should not be needed, but if adding the optical solves the problem then maybe you should just go with that. *shrug*

I apologize if this has been brought up already, but I am sure I'm getting black crush with my Sammy hooked up to my JVC RS1 front projector. Are any of you experiencing black crush, and if so, have you come up with a way to get the blacks to show properly? It's driving me crazy!

Edit: BTW, I use HDMI out and am not experiencing black crush with Blu-Ray, HD-DVD or SD-DVD. It was really evident while watching "NUMB3RS" Friday night. In dark scenes it was really hard to see what was going on. This could be a product of the show, but I've never noticed that with SD broadcasts on my CRT TVs.

bump

some stuff

Connected via composite it's gonna suck. If you're using component try HDMI, if it's HDMI try component. If both suck try using a different input on the projector. Try turning off any noise reduction or similar functions if the projector has them. Double check the settings (if any) on the projector. If all else fails try a different 260 box.

Connected via composite it's gonna suck. If you're using component try HDMI, if it's HDMI try component. If both suck try using a different input on the projector. Try turning off any noise reduction or similar functions if the projector has them. Double check the settings (if any) on the projector. If all else fails try a different 260 box.

Thanks... the thing that sucks is I've had this for about 6 months but only really noticed it last Friday. It just shows a very dark image in dark scenes and it's hard to appreciate any details. Trying component cables is going to suck as I need a 50' cable and don't feel like purchasing one just to make a comparison. My HD-A3, PS3 and DTB-H260F all use HDMI and all go through a splitter. The sammy is the only one that seems to have a problem. I have my PJ properly calibrated for hi-def disks as well as SD-DVD. I wish the Sammy had more tweakability.

BTW - the $60 SD DTV converter boxes will not have HD video nor digital audio outputs - they will be strictly s-video / composite / RF modulator output. It will be an open question how they will handle these other situations - I would hope they try to full screen on the 4:3 SD displays, doing centercuts of 16:9 programs and/or offering letterbox.

IIRC converter boxes are required to perform both letterboxing and center-cutting, in order to be eligible for the subsidized coupons.

Cool - that should make pretty desired by people like derbeck, and me for the last remaining TV.

Thanks... the thing that sucks is I've had this for about 6 months but only really noticed it last Friday. It just shows a very dark image in dark scenes and it's hard to appreciate any details. Trying component cables is going to suck as I need a 50' cable and don't feel like purchasing one just to make a comparison. My HD-A3, PS3 and DTB-H260F all use HDMI and all go through a splitter. The sammy is the only one that seems to have a problem. I have my PJ properly calibrated for hi-def disks as well as SD-DVD. I wish the Sammy had more tweakability.

Does the projector allow you to save your settings in multiple profiles? Could you save your DVD settings under one profile, then recalibrate for brightness and contrast using the Samsung and save those settings under another profile? I am using an Optoma projector and it has the ability to save settings this way.

Yes it does, and I've done that for my SD and hid-def disk formats. I haven't done that for the Sammy, but seems like a smart thing to do. I guess I just assumed that the settings that work for the hi-def disks would also work for HD programming as most shows look great. It certainly won't hurt to try. I still think it's a black crush issue, but I'll play around with it tonight and see what happens. There's also the possibility that it's a product of how the show was shot since TV shows vary so much in how they do their colors/lighting.

In regards to the DTB-H260F and displaying the image over composite and S-video; what doesn't make sense to me is the unit this replaced, the SIRT-451, displayed the video correctly on a 4:3 display with a composite hookup. If you wanted to zoom or fill the screen, you just tapped a button on the remote. They chose to make it act the way it does.

Anyone having trouble with macroblocking? I've had this receiver for about a year, and noticed it a little with my 480P projector, but I recently upgraded to a 720P machine, and I notice it much more. It's not the projector, all other sources are fine. Is it the OTA signal itself, or is it the decoder in the Sammy? Any ideas?

Your station's OTA signal, or your reception of it. What's your signal strength on this one ?

Not here. The Sammy is tuner is pretty near equal to the one in my Sony DHG-HDD500 DVR, and that one's exceptionally good.

Very likely it's the signal. If we're talking about subchannels, or the main channel of a heavily subbed one, then that's no surprise. And the huger the screen, the more noticable it will be, naturally.

Even some of the big networks can look especially bad at times, like with NBC and their football.

Signal is ususally really good (dependent on weather). I've noticed it on all the major stations (NBC, CBS, ABC). I'll double check my signal strength tonight to make sure it hasn't changed (I pick up everything with fixed position antenna, so I hardly ever have to check signal strength). Any idea at what signal level I'd start to see more macroblocking? (75%, 50%, etc?). If nobody else is seeing it, it must be signal or reception related, so I'll look into my setup some more.

Signal is ususally really good (dependent on weather). I've noticed it on all the major stations (NBC, CBS, ABC). I'll double check my signal strength tonight to make sure it hasn't changed (I pick up everything with fixed position antenna, so I hardly ever have to check signal strength). Any idea at what signal level I'd start to see more macroblocking? (75%, 50%, etc?). If nobody else is seeing it, it must be signal or reception related, so I'll look into my setup some more.

Can you select output res on your 720p projector? i.e. selectable 480i, 720p, 1080i? You could roll it back to 480i just for comparison.

Can you select output res on your 720p projector? i.e. selectable 480i, 720p, 1080i? You could roll it back to 480i just for comparison.

Well, I don't think so. The projector is a Sharp xv-z3000 (Eiki 1600T). I'm not really sure how you'd select your projector output unless you were using CRT. Maybe I'm mis-understanding your question.

Oh, one more thing. On an Air scan, why do some channles flash in red as they're scanned? I can't draw any relationship to the channels that flash and the ones that get picked up by the receiver.

Ok - got another HDMI cable from Monoprice last night, tried it out. When the Sammy is set to 1080i, using the HDMI cable to my Olevia 232T, I see blue people and other colors are off. Set the Sammy back to 720p - all colors back to normal.

Conclusion - something in my TV or possibly the Sammy isn't working right with HDMI. What's wierd is that 1080i component works just fine. Since the set is one of those 1366x768 pixel LCDs, I can leave it at 720p just fine.

Hey guys,

I have had my Samsung box for about two years now and at my previous apartment I was able to receive all the HD channels offered by the cable provider. This included channels like ESPN, HDMovies, HDNet, OLN, and the network channels like FOX and ABC. The box was simply hooked up to the "raw" cable feed.

I have sinced changed apartment and am using Charter Communications. I have the "raw" cable feed split between their cable box and the Samsung box and am able to get the local HD stations like FOX and ABC. However, I tried to add the HD service with Charter to get channels like TNT, ESPN, ESPN2, etc. and they keep telling me that it is not possible unless I have their box or one with a cable card. I refuse to believe this is the case because I was able to receive the channels from the previous cable provider. Does anyone have these HD channels from Charter and how did you go about getting them?

Thanks,
Eddie

... And the huger the screen, the more noticable it will be, naturally.

Even some of the big networks can look especially bad at times, like with NBC and their football.

Ah good, so it's not just me/my local affiliates. On Sunday afternoon, I finally got to watch some football in HD for the first time on my front projection setup. Caught a little bit on Fox and it looked great! That night, watched some of the Steelers game on NBC and it was macroblock city. OK it wasn't THAT bad -- actually looked quite nice -- but the macroblocking was very noticable.

Well, I don't think so. The projector is a Sharp xv-z3000 (Eiki 1600T). I'm not really sure how you'd select your projector output unless you were using CRT. Maybe I'm mis-understanding your question.

No, it's probably my not knowing projectors. :)

Hey guys,

I have had my Samsung box for about two years now and at my previous apartment I was able to receive all the HD channels offered by the cable provider. This included channels like ESPN, HDMovies, HDNet, OLN, and the network channels like FOX and ABC. The box was simply hooked up to the "raw" cable feed.

I have sinced changed apartment and am using Charter Communications. I have the "raw" cable feed split between their cable box and the Samsung box and am able to get the local HD stations like FOX and ABC. However, I tried to add the HD service with Charter to get channels like TNT, ESPN, ESPN2, etc. and they keep telling me that it is not possible unless I have their box or one with a cable card. I refuse to believe this is the case because I was able to receive the channels from the previous cable provider. Does anyone have these HD channels from Charter and how did you go about getting them?

Thanks,
Eddie


Believe it. While you might be able to get the Local broadcasted HDTV channels, you can almost certainly bet that "cable" channels (such TNT, ESPN, ESPN2, etc.) are encrypted.

Hey guys,

I have had my Samsung box for about two years now and at my previous apartment I was able to receive all the HD channels offered by the cable provider. This included channels like ESPN, HDMovies, HDNet, OLN, and the network channels like FOX and ABC. The box was simply hooked up to the "raw" cable feed.

I have sinced changed apartment and am using Charter Communications. I have the "raw" cable feed split between their cable box and the Samsung box and am able to get the local HD stations like FOX and ABC. However, I tried to add the HD service with Charter to get channels like TNT, ESPN, ESPN2, etc. and they keep telling me that it is not possible unless I have their box or one with a cable card. I refuse to believe this is the case because I was able to receive the channels from the previous cable provider. Does anyone have these HD channels from Charter and how did you go about getting them?

Thanks,
Eddie

You probably just got lucky with the previous cable company. Most HD feeds, other than locals, are almost always encrypted.

Alright, so I talked to my previous provider and their HD channels like ESPN were not encrypted, which makes sense. I then spoke to a very intelligent lady at Charter and she informed me that it can indeed be done if I get a "cable card" or "m-card" she called it for my Samsung box.

Does the Samsung box have a place for an m-card?

Alright, so I talked to my previous provider and their HD channels like ESPN were not encrypted, which makes sense. I then spoke to a very intelligent lady at Charter and she informed me that it can indeed be done if I get a "cable card" or "m-card" she called it for my Samsung box.

Does the Samsung box have a place for an m-card?

Nope.

bummer.

Oh, one more thing. On an Air scan, why do some channles flash in red as they're scanned? I can't draw any relationship to the channels that flash and the ones that get picked up by the receiver.

I've never seen that, sorry.

Oh, one more thing. On an Air scan, why do some channles flash in red as they're scanned? I can't draw any relationship to the channels that flash and the ones that get picked up by the receiver.

The channels that flash red are the UHF channels that it finds. In fact I've found that the stronger the channel, the quicker it finds it and it will linger on channels that are marginal before it discards it if it is too weak.

On an Air scan, why do some channles flash in red as they're scanned?

Those are the channels that the unit has found an ATSC signal on.

I can't draw any relationship to the channels that flash and the ones that get picked up by the receiver.

The channels that are shown during the scan are physical channel numbers, not the virtual channel numbers that you use for tuning. For example, when I do a fresh scan, channel 8 flashes red, but I tune it as 25-1 (or 25-2 or 25-3 because it has extra subchannels).

The unit scans through all the physical channels in sequence, starting with the one that it happens to be tuned to when you start the scan and wrapping around from channel 69 to channel 2. When it finds an ATSC signal, it extracts the virtual channel number from the signal's PSIP data and puts it in your channel list.

Those are the channels that the unit has found an ATSC signal on.



The channels that are shown during the scan are physical channel numbers, not the virtual channel numbers that you use for tuning. For example, when I do a fresh scan, channel 8 flashes red, but I tune it as 25-1 (or 25-2 or 25-3 because it has extra subchannels).

The unit scans through all the physical channels in sequence, starting with the one that it happens to be tuned to when you start the scan and wrapping around from channel 69 to channel 2. When it finds an ATSC signal, it extracts the virtual channel number from the signal's PSIP data and puts it in your channel list.

Hint: If you use a rotator, before you rotate your antenna and do a rescan, it may be a good idea to note those channels that flashed in red (you have to be fast with your pen...) during your initial scan. After you do a re-scan in your antenna's new location, you can re-enter those physical channels, and the 260 will still take you to the virtual channel assigned to them. So, while not apparent in the manual, the 260 does remember channels after re-scans. You can run multiple scans this way and have as many channels as you want programmed in, as long as they don't share the same virtual or physical numbers.

Has anyone figured out how to have two different physical channels with the same virtual numbers assigned programmed into the 260?

you can re-enter those physical channels, and the 260 will still take you to the virtual channel assigned to them. So, while not apparent in the manual, the 260 does remember channels after re-scans.

Actually no, it doesn't. By punching in the actual channel number you're forcing the 260 to look there for an ATSC signal. If found it reads the PSIP data, does the virtual channel thing and adds it to your list of channels.

Rescanning wipes the slate clean so it can start from scratch.

Actually no, it doesn't. By punching in the actual channel number you're forcing the 260 to look there for an ATSC signal. If found it reads the PSIP data, does the virtual channel thing and adds it to your list of channels.

Rescanning wipes the slate clean so it can start from scratch.

Well, whether it retains channels after scan or not is less important than what it actually does - Allows one to punch in the physical channel after a rescan and it somehow knows to default to the virtual channel. If the antenna is pointed away from the signal, you get the "no signal found" message.

In my situation, I'd like to have the opportunity to at least try to pick up one of the Canadian stations, but it's physical channel is 58, while one of my local channels virtual numbers is 58.1. So, even after a rescan while pointed towards Canada, guess what channel is tuned to when I enter 58? 58.1.

What I would do is make a list of what the 260 found on autoscan. Then manually enter the "other stations", then manually enter the stations found by the first scan. IOW - you won't be able to autoscan at all.

What I would do is make a list of what the 260 found on autoscan. Then manually enter the "other stations", then manually enter the stations found by the first scan. IOW - you won't be able to autoscan at all.

That's pretty much what I do now. I scan with the antenna facing south, turn the antenna to face north, re-scan, the enter the physical channels of the south channels.

Maybe what I need to do is unplug the antenna, run a scan to wipe the memory, then manually enter all the channels starting with the weakest ones with the antenna pointed where I want the channel to get the signal.

Alright, so I was watching some NBC the other night, and noticed more macroblocking. It wasn't as bad as before, but it was there. I quickly switched on the signal meter, and was 2-3 bars from max (only 1-2 bars weren't blue). Can I expect to see some form of macroblocking unless I'm at full signal? Does this mean that the macroblocking is in the original signal, not a decoder issue?

Again, it wasn't nearly as bad as some of the other macroblocking I've seen. If I see a really bad case again, I'll report back with my signal strength.

Can I expect to see some form of macroblocking unless I'm at full signal? Does this mean that the macroblocking is in the original signal, not a decoder issue?

It means your signal quality wasn't great. When it happens to me I get audio cutouts and the occasional video freeze (changing channels fixes that).

Lower signal means less data, which means less is available to decode, which probably means macroblocking or dropouts if it's bad enough.

Does this mean that the macroblocking is in the original signal, not a decoder issue?

I get macroblocking sometimes when my Sammy 260 decodes QAM stations that are in the clear. I only pay for analog stations with my cable provider. The lower channels typically come in poorly on my SD CRT TVs, but sometimes they are really bad; the macroblocking on the lower digital stations only occurs when the lower analog stations are unwatchable.

On another note, I just got two Panasonic plasmas that also have QAM tuners. Their tuners pick up more digital stations. For instance, I get over 40 music stations on the plasmas that the sammy 260 doesn't pick up. It's really nice to get the extra stations on the plasmas, but at the same time it's dissapointing not to get them in the room with the HT/2-channel audio setup.

I apologize if this has been brought up already, but I am sure I'm getting black crush with my Sammy hooked up to my JVC RS1 front projector. Are any of you experiencing black crush, and if so, have you come up with a way to get the blacks to show properly? It's driving me crazy!

Edit: BTW, I use HDMI out and am not experiencing black crush with Blu-Ray, HD-DVD or SD-DVD. It was really evident while watching "NUMB3RS" Friday night. In dark scenes it was really hard to see what was going on. This could be a product of the show, but I've never noticed that with SD broadcasts on my CRT TVs.

I think I have the answer. As noted in the previous post (#2391), I picked up two plasmas for other rooms in the house. They also have poor black detail (which appears as black crush) on HD shows. I have them zeroed out during the break-in process, so you have to take this with a grain of salt, but it makes me think this black issue has more to do with the programming/cable signal than the displays. As also indicated in the previous post, the cable feed I get is less than stellar. This is starting to make sense. I'll calibrate the plasmas with DVE after I hit 100 hours on the break-in disk. I think I'm getting Spider2 Express for Christmas, so I'll be able to do an even better calibration afterwards. We'll see what happens.

Those are the channels that the unit has found an ATSC signal on.



The channels that are shown during the scan are physical channel numbers, not the virtual channel numbers that you use for tuning. For example, when I do a fresh scan, channel 8 flashes red, but I tune it as 25-1 (or 25-2 or 25-3 because it has extra subchannels).

The unit scans through all the physical channels in sequence, starting with the one that it happens to be tuned to when you start the scan and wrapping around from channel 69 to channel 2. When it finds an ATSC signal, it extracts the virtual channel number from the signal's PSIP data and puts it in your channel list.
Here is an interesting note that I will share...

There are two stations about 45 miles from me and both are running (very) low power. One is a FOX and the other one an ABC station which I would really like to receive, but... When the H260 gets to these stations it pauses for something like 3-5 seconds and then moves on without logging them into it's system. It appears that the H260 is able to receive enough signal to make it consider the signal, but in the end it decides the signal quality isn't sufficient for acceptance.

I just keep hoping one day when I run a scan they'll turn red! :)

Ed

"Digital Receivers and bad aspect ratios, Winegard RC-1010 vs. Samsung DTB-H260F"

Having been frustrated with the H260F bad 4:3 zoom aspect ratio, I obtained an RC-1010, and did a comparison of these two devices. Both devices have the same aspect ratio options and use essentially the same ratio picture table in their manuals. The one place that stands out is where this device is used with an analog TV. In order to see the picture on an analog TV with the digital channel exactly as it was on the analog channel, you need to use the 4:3 zoom aspect. The RC-1010 has the correct display while the H260F fails and gives a skewed display.

The RC-1010 also does not have the problem with menu, station and program guide display that the DTB-H260F has. Using the Samsung, you cannot see these unless you are using "component" or HDMI input to the TV. If your TV doesn't have one of those, you are out of luck. The RC-1010 allows you to see the menu using any TV input. However, the RC-1010 does not have an output type switch on the back like the H260F does, and the type is program enabled. So, if you want to use the RC-1010 with component output (if your TV has it), you must temporarily hook up a single RCA video cable to the TV so you can see the menu and switch the output to 480i so it isn't scrambled on the screen with the component output. Once changed via the menu, you can switch the TV to component input and remove the RCA video cable.

The program guide is a little better with the RC-1010. The only place where the Samsung unit wins is the receiver sensitivity. The Winegard RC-1010 has very slightly less capability (1/2 bar?) to lock onto weak channels. If a channel is just barely usable with the Samsung unit, the RC-1010 probably will not pick it up. I also like the feel of that metal box of the H260F. The RC-1010 is plastic, but tiny. Bottom line, for 4:3 buy the Winegard, for 16:9 buy the Samsung, or wait to see what RCA and LG have for us in January.

Well - I'm buying at least one coupon box early next year, so that problem should get resolved.

Well - I'm buying at least one coupon box early next year, so that problem should get resolved.

Well - I'm hoping to get at least one HDTV early next year, so that problem should get resolved. ;)

Still getting the coupon boxes though. Bedroom and basement need some kind of TV signal.

Ok, I just installed the Samsung DTB-H260F and got it working after some time with one major problem... the picture is primarily GREEN. I can see red and blue very vividly when those colors are used, but in general, 80% of the screen has the GREEN color.

I'm using the COMPONENT connection and I've checked that the red, blue and green cables are connected correctly both on the STB and the TV (I've checked 10+ times and removed and reconnected).

Is there something wrong with my box or TV or is it a configuration issue?

Thanks in advance.

Is the TV possibly configured for an RGB input instead of color difference format component video (y, Pb, Pr). If the TV is expecting RGB and the STB Y channel output is connected to the Green input you will get almost nothing but a green picture.

Is the TV possibly configured for an RGB input instead of color difference format component video (y, Pb, Pr). If the TV is expecting RGB and the STB Y channel output is connected to the Green input you will get almost nothing but a green picture.

I think you might be onto something here. But I checked the TV manual and it's setup for either GBR HD/VD jacks or Y/Pb/Pr and I believe the STB is also Y/Pb/Pr. In this scenario, the STB Y is going to the TV's Y/G jack. Like you mentioned, I'm getting mostly GREEN with very little blue and red. For example, a screen showing 2 people, their lips will be normal color and the rest of the screen will be GREEN. How can I resolve the issue?

"Digital Receivers and bad aspect ratios, Winegard RC-1010 vs. Samsung DTB-H260F"

Having been frustrated with the H260F bad 4:3 zoom aspect ratio, I obtained an RC-1010, and did a comparison of these two devices. Both devices have the same aspect ratio options and use essentially the same ratio picture table in their manuals. The one place that stands out is where this device is used with an analog TV. In order to see the picture on an analog TV with the digital channel exactly as it was on the analog channel, you need to use the 4:3 zoom aspect. The RC-1010 has the correct display while the H260F fails and gives a skewed display.

The RC-1010 also does not have the problem with menu, station and program guide display that the DTB-H260F has. Using the Samsung, you cannot see these unless you are using "component" or HDMI input to the TV. If your TV doesn't have one of those, you are out of luck. The RC-1010 allows you to see the menu using any TV input. However, the RC-1010 does not have an output type switch on the back like the H260F does, and the type is program enabled. So, if you want to use the RC-1010 with component output (if your TV has it), you must temporarily hook up a single RCA video cable to the TV so you can see the menu and switch the output to 480i so it isn't scrambled on the screen with the component output. Once changed via the menu, you can switch the TV to component input and remove the RCA video cable.

The program guide is a little better with the RC-1010. The only place where the Samsung unit wins is the receiver sensitivity. The Winegard RC-1010 has very slightly less capability (1/2 bar?) to lock onto weak channels. If a channel is just barely usable with the Samsung unit, the RC-1010 probably will not pick it up. I also like the feel of that metal box of the H260F. The RC-1010 is plastic, but tiny. Bottom line, for 4:3 buy the Winegard, for 16:9 buy the Samsung, or wait to see what RCA and LG have for us in January.

I'm glad you found something to function to your liking. But, as you say, these boxes are made for different markets. The Winegard is basically a converter box and is made for the analog consumer, from the Winegard web site as it's main selling point: "Digital quality on your analog TV. Digital television delivers DVD quality picture and sound to your existing analog television. " Which is why the Winegard is absent HDMI connectivity. Also no QAM, strictly an OTA box.

Whereas the H260f is a digital and HD tuner in both OTA and QAM and is marketed for the HD consumer (HDMI with audio support, menu access in digital outs only, 16:9 preference).

You did a very good comparison and I'm sure it will benefit those who are looking for an OTA tuner.

I think you might be onto something here. But I checked the TV manual and it's setup for either GBR HD/VD jacks or Y/Pb/Pr and I believe the STB is also Y/Pb/Pr. In this scenario, the STB Y is going to the TV's Y/G jack. Like you mentioned, I'm getting mostly GREEN with very little blue and red. For example, a screen showing 2 people, their lips will be normal color and the rest of the screen will be GREEN. How can I resolve the issue?


It has to be a TV issue - the STB is Y Pr Pb output only.

It has to be a TV issue - the STB is Y Pr Pb output only.

I had a brief problem with this myself. Seems when the dish* guy hooked my new sat receivers/dish up one of the 260's component cables that plugged into the back of the receiver got *almost* unplugged. The back of the receiver is in a rather cramped location. :o The loose connection caused an intermittent GREEN screen....wiggle things a bit and it would flicker between green and good. Once I finally located the loosened cable and pushed it in firmly things were good.

You might try a different cable and see if it makes a difference...there could be a bad one in the bunch.

Ed

I think you might be onto something here. But I checked the TV manual and it's setup for either GBR HD/VD jacks or Y/Pb/Pr and I believe the STB is also Y/Pb/Pr. In this scenario, the STB Y is going to the TV's Y/G jack. Like you mentioned, I'm getting mostly GREEN with very little blue and red. For example, a screen showing 2 people, their lips will be normal color and the rest of the screen will be GREEN. How can I resolve the issue?

One way to verify that your TV is in the Y, Pb, Pr mode is to connect only the Y cable (green wire) with Pb and Pr not connected. If the set is actually set for Y, Pb, Pr you should end up with a black and white picture with no color at all. If you get a nothing but green picture the set is in the RGB (GBR is the same thing) mode.

I think you might be onto something here. But I checked the TV manual and it's setup for either GBR HD/VD jacks or Y/Pb/Pr and I believe the STB is also Y/Pb/Pr. In this scenario, the STB Y is going to the TV's Y/G jack. Like you mentioned, I'm getting mostly GREEN with very little blue and red. For example, a screen showing 2 people, their lips will be normal color and the rest of the screen will be GREEN. How can I resolve the issue?

If your TV is a Mitsubishi and you are using the "DTV" input (on mine, the first HD component input), you may have to go into the setup menu on the TV and specify either RGB or Component Video for that input.

Circuitcity - > Arghhhhhh !

I've been toying with getting another for a Vizio TV upstairs that does not seem have a sensitive tuner. So, twice now I've gotten a $15 off coupon from a rebate at CC and have tried to buy one at a store.

My experience:

Several times I've gone and they have none on display and the clerk refused to look in back or on their terminal to see if any were there.

At least three other times the box (the only box on the shelf) was clearly opened or damaged - with cable and remote and so on all messed up. My first one was that way and I refuse to take a chance on another.

Todays experience - One box dented on one side with lid partially open. I went to a nearby clerk and ask (wishfully) if another one was in stock. Clerk says that, "No that's the only one !" and walks over to the STB saying that, "It was never open." I pick it up and he says, Oh yeah, I recall the Manager opening it up for a customer. " I ask if he could "Please, check the inventory ?" He looks at em and says, " There's not much call for these things anymore. They ain't gonna make ' em anymore since all TV and Video Recorders have the Tuners built in now ! " I, steamed and speakless, turned and walked out of the store.

I went home and bought one from Amazon. They have a Shipping Center 7 miles from my home. I'll burn the $15 coupon.

Circuitcity - > Arghhhhhh !

I've been toying with getting another for a Vizio TV upstairs that does not seem have a sensitive tuner. So, twice now I've gotten a $15 off coupon from a rebate at CC and have tried to buy one at a store.

My experience:

Several times I've gone and they have none on display and the clerk refused to look in back or on their terminal to see if any were there.

At least three other times the box (the only box on the shelf) was clearly opened or damaged - with cable and remote and so on all messed up. My first one was that way and I refuse to take a chance on another.

Todays experience - One box dented on one side with lid partially open. I went to a nearby clerk and ask (wishfully) if another one was in stock. Clerk says that, "No that's the only one !" and walks over to the STB saying that, "It was never open." I pick it up and he says, Oh yeah, I recall the Manager opening it up for a customer. " I ask if he could "Please, check the inventory ?" He looks at em and says, " There's not much call for these things anymore. They ain't gonna make ' em anymore since all TV and Video Recorders have the Tuners built in now ! " I, steamed and speakless, turned and walked out of the store.

I went home and bought one from Amazon. They have a Shipping Center 7 miles from my home. I'll burn the $15 coupon.
Thats why I by from Newegg and Amazon no stupid people. Compusa used to be the same way and we can see what happen to them! :D

Probably not stupid at all - he could've just been trying to sell you a new TV. Wouldn't put that tactic past any CC or BB sales rep.

(Although he is truly stupid if he really thinks that DVD recorders contain HD tuners).

Probably not stupid at all - he could've just been trying to sell you a new TV. Wouldn't put that tactic past any CC or BB sales rep.

(Although he is truly stupid if he really thinks that DVD recorders contain HD tuners).

There are several DVD recorders that have HD turners. The Toshiba D-R550 is one that has ATSC/NTSC/QAm tuner.

Thats why I by from Newegg and Amazon no stupid people. Compusa used to be the same way and we can see what happen to them! :D

Yup. I've had similar experiences at BB & CC. And then these brick 'n mortar stores wonder why they are losing market share. What few advantages these stores had (like liberal return policy's) are quickly being eroded away by online retailers and no hard sell tactics to deal with.

I buy as much online as is possible & reasonable. The savings in merchandise cost and no sales tax (for as long as that lasts) combined with the convenience factor is just unbeatable. I probably saved close to $ 300.00 on X-Mas presents this year alone!

There are several DVD recorders that have HD turners. The Toshiba D-R550 is one that has ATSC/NTSC/QAm tuner.

There are several DVD recorders that have ATSC tuners, none of which (AKAIK) pass true HD through to the HDTV. They may have "HDMI" and "1080i" upscaling and all that pretty stuff, but their tuners display 480 content upscaled to 1080, so the picture is not as good. This thead covers this: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=944699

There's really no such thing as an "HD tuner". It's an ATSC tuner. Whether or not the unit it's attached to is capable of passing on the HD signal is up to the manufacturer.

Personally, I don't think we will see DVD recorders with true HD pass-through until HD DVD or Blue-Ray recorders become commonplace, and then only if we are lucky.

i recommend this hd tuner for my cousin and he is having a problem. he lives in queens, ny and is connecting everything thru the time warner cable. here is his problem:

" got the samsung, store pickup, can't wait for shipping. Got a 2.7ghz splitter, setup everything, channel scan, and got "no signal or too weak" and "encrypted signal or too weak", damn! Anyway, I removed the splitter and hook the cable line directly to the converter, composite line directly to my tv, channel scan, nothing. Could it be that they filter it out in my building?"

any1 know what the problem could be and how can he fix this? thx in advance.

nvm..it is fixed..lol.

Bump...

ok i heard twc nyc recently has tbs hd channel? if yes, any1 able to get tbs hd on their samsung box? it doesn't make sense that im able to get tnt hd and not tbs hd since both are own by turner company.

I could really use some helping getting my system to work. I just purchased the H260F for my 47in Westinghouse Plasma Monitor hoping to be able to pickup OTA HD. I also purchased a powered Atenna to pick the channels up.

I plug the H260F into my TV's Component and my Atenna to the ANT/Cable In but I get no signal from the Atenna to pickup OTA channels. I can see that it is on and I have moved it all around and I still get nothing. It tells me the signal is Scrambled or Weak.

Anyone have any advice as to why this wouldn't be working.

Thanks

Brian

Did you do a channel search for the air option this is in the menu settings go to channel then find the channel manager then should have a option to select air cable air/cable select air then should do a search to find channels. if you just hook up tuner will get nothing have to do this for cable and the air. hope this helps.

ok i heard twc nyc recently has tbs hd channel? if yes, any1 able to get tbs hd on their samsung box? it doesn't make sense that im able to get tnt hd and not tbs hd since both are own by turner company.

Each channel (TNT & TBS) may be contracted separately and some cable providers may offer only one. You sure your recent re-scan did not pick it up and you are just not tuning to the correct QAM channel?

Could also be that TBS HD is encrypted on your system.

Each channel (TNT & TBS) may be contracted separately and some cable providers may offer only one. You sure your recent re-scan did not pick it up and you are just not tuning to the correct QAM channel?

Could also be that TBS HD is encrypted on your system.

i haven't rescan since when i first got it which was last year. do u recommend to rescan again? kinda pain in the ass to save all my fav. channel again.

one more thing. i think i may be moving to brooklyn soon and they only have cablevision there. any1 here who has cablevision (especially in brooklyn) and have this tuner? what hd channel are u able to pick up beside ota hd and tnt hd channel? are u able to pick up any ppv channel from ur neighbors? are u able to pick discovery hd channel? thx in advance.

i haven't rescan since when i first got it which was last year. do u recommend to rescan again? kinda pain in the ass to save all my fav. channel again.

If it's an added channel since you last scanned then I think the tuner has no idea the channel is there and requires a re-scan. You may want others to chime in first to confirm if a re-scan is needed.

Do a search for Clear QAM postings and forums in your area and/or your local cable systems. I'll bet there are forum postings for such.

i haven't rescan since when i first got it which was last year. do u recommend to rescan again? kinda pain in the ass to save all my fav. channel again.

You may not need to re-scan. If you know the physical channel number, you can enter it the tuner will display the channel if it can find it.
I would refer to your local cable or OTA forum to see if anyone has the physical channel number for you.

If they switched anything around, you might even lose some of the channels you've been getting (like TNT-HD). Definitely check your local thread first to see if you can just punch in a number if anyone's picking it up.

I had an old Viewsonic HD12 and recently got a Samsung DTB-H260F because I believed that it was capable of tuning clear QAM signals. I know that my cable company broadcasts standard cable tier in clear QAM.

Anyway, the box is here and I'm having trouble tuning in the cable channels. I did the "auto program" selected cable, std. However it seems to have tuned in only OTA channels and almost nothing else. There are a lot of hyphenated channels listed but they are mostly nothing. Few that are there are mostly what are OTA except for the info channel(channel2) on 81-1, the township info channel, all those sales/religious channels and the tvguide channel (24 on my regular cable) which shows up on 81-7.

Am I completely confused or should I be able to tune in un-encrypted channels?

Thanks in advance.

Most cable companies only send the local channels and public access channels in the clear. All the blank channels are the scrambled digital channels that the Samsung can not decode. If you want cable i.e. non-broadcast channels you need a box from the cable system.

I had an old Viewsonic HD12 and recently got a Samsung DTB-H260F because I believed that it was capable of tuning clear QAM signals. I know that my cable company broadcasts standard cable tier in clear QAM.

Anyway, the box is here and I'm having trouble tuning in the cable channels. I did the "auto program" selected cable, std. However it seems to have tuned in only OTA channels and almost nothing else. There are a lot of hyphenated channels listed but they are mostly nothing. Few that are there are mostly what are OTA except for the info channel(channel2) on 81-1, the township info channel, all those sales/religious channels and the tvguide channel (24 on my regular cable) which shows up on 81-7.

Am I completely confused or should I be able to tune in un-encrypted channels?

Thanks in advance.

i dont know why u even bought the samsung box for? u should have sticked with ur cable box from ur cable company instead. the only ppl that want to get the samsung box are the following reasons:

1) get hd channels ota with an indoor or outdoor antenna if hdtv doesn't have a build-in nstc tuner.
2) u are currently subscribing to basic services (ota channels only) thru ur cable company and doesn't want to "rent" their box.
3) u have an "illegal" analog cable box that picks up premium channels for free and still want to get ota hd channels for ur hdtv thru ur cable provider. (mine reason)

... recently got a Samsung DTB-H260F because I believed that it was capable of tuning clear QAM signals. I know that my cable company broadcasts standard cable tier in clear QAM.

Anyway, the box is here and I'm having trouble tuning in the cable channels. I did the "auto program" selected cable, std. However it seems to have tuned in only OTA channels and almost nothing else. There are a lot of hyphenated channels listed but they are mostly nothing. Few that are there are mostly what are OTA except for the info channel(channel2) on 81-1, the township info channel, all those sales/religious channels and the tvguide channel (24 on my regular cable) which shows up on 81-7.

Am I completely confused or should I be able to tune in un-encrypted channels? ... Depending on your cable carrier and location you may find my prior post, quoted below, interesting, funny and informative.

I was reading Wikipedia's article on QAM Tuners (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAM_tuner) and noticed the following External Link:

Watching cable TV subscriptions from others (http://www.slate.com/id/2167389/pagenum/) - a report on www.slate.com (June 2007)

This was very interesting, and fun, reading and has been discussed at least twice on AVS Forums as follows:

Watching my neighbors watch on-demand television
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10726050&highlight=watching+my+neighbors#post10726050

Watching my neighbors VOD
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10261535&highlight=watching+my+neighbors#post10261535

I do not presently subscribe to Comcast and get my HDTV OTA via a large roof antenna... Excellent reception for the standard local network HD broadcasts.

I'm curious, can ABQ area Comcast subscribers with a QAM Tuner confirm that "Watching your neighbors watch on-demand television" works in our area?

Would an ABQ subscriber to Comcast's "Basic Cable" package and owner of an ATSC/QAM/NTSC tuner TV be able to receive this strange oddity?AVS members in my area with a QAM tuner responded that they did receive "their neighbors' VOD." :D

Avio

Am I completely confused or should I be able to tune in un-encrypted channels?

Thanks in advance.

Check for a local forum for your town/cable system. In my area people post the channels they receive from clear QAM.

I've got a new Onkyo SR605 receiver and a new Samsung H260F. They're not getting along. I'm outputting video and audio (Dolby Digital) via HDMI to the receiver.

The picture is great. The audio, however, rarely works. With some combination of stubborn button-pushing I can get audio for awhile, but only until I switch the receiver to DVD or tweak the receiver's settings--at which point the audio is lost again. The immediate problem, aside from the lost audio itself, is that I haven't yet figured out what combination of button-pushing restores audio.

So: this kind of sounds like a receiver problem to me, but I thought I'd check on this thread to see if these Samsungs have some issues with audio getting lost. Thanks for any help you can offer.

I'd see if it works better using TOSLINK

3) u have an "illegal" analog cable box that picks up premium channels for free and still want to get ota hd channels for ur hdtv thru ur cable provider. (mine reason)And you said your address is what? ;)

I've got a new Onkyo SR605 receiver and a new Samsung H260F. They're not getting along. I'm outputting video and audio (Dolby Digital) via HDMI to the receiver.

The picture is great. The audio, however, rarely works. With some combination of stubborn button-pushing I can get audio for awhile, but only until I switch the receiver to DVD or tweak the receiver's settings--at which point the audio is lost again. The immediate problem, aside from the lost audio itself, is that I haven't yet figured out what combination of button-pushing restores audio.

So: this kind of sounds like a receiver problem to me, but I thought I'd check on this thread to see if these Samsungs have some issues with audio getting lost. Thanks for any help you can offer.

I agree with Scooper, switch to optical. I have the exact same problem with HDMI audio drops as well as startup handshake issues. I have three HDMI components going into a Yamaha AVR and only the H260f has such audio problems. If I don't switch input sources (H260f to DVD back to H260f) the HDMI audio will work fine for hours on end. One source switch and audio is gone. H260f optical works flawlessly.

To test if the problem is your AVR or H260f, try changing to a different HDMI input (hopefully one that currently works properly with another HDMI source) and see if it still drops audio. But I'd bet the problem follows the H260f.

Check for a local forum for your town/cable system. In my area people post the channels they receive from clear QAM.

I live in Cincinnati where Time Warner is known to use clear QAM. Although I'm not sure whether that is only in areas
that used to be serviced by the defunct Adelphia Cable.

i dont know why u even bought the samsung box for? u should have sticked with ur cable box from ur cable company instead. the only ppl that want to get the samsung box are the following reasons:

1) get hd channels ota with an indoor or outdoor antenna if hdtv doesn't have a build-in nstc tuner.
2) u are currently subscribing to basic services (ota channels only) thru ur cable company and doesn't want to "rent" their box.
3) u have an "illegal" analog cable box that picks up premium channels for free and still want to get ota hd channels for ur hdtv thru ur cable provider. (mine reason)

Nope... it had an NTSC tuner, hence completely legal. However I had heard that the standard cable (not digital tier with the encrypted signals) were being broadcast in clearQAM as well. So I went for an upgrade.

It does find the local channels, but I was wondering about the other channels like the TVGuide channel and all the junk channels are showing up as hyphenated sub channels

toby10 & Scooper--thank you. So, just to be sure I'm getting it straight: I retain HDMI in from the Samsung for video and switch to an optical cord for audio? Or am I forced to send both via optical (and, thus, lose the slick channel menu and stuff).

By the way, I seem to find that simply shutting the Samsung off and turning it back on again tends to solve the problem. Any better ideas while I still am single-threaded via HDMI?

However I had heard that the standard cable (not digital tier with the encrypted signals) were being broadcast in clearQAM as well.Where did you hear that? I don't think anyone broadcasts the digital standard channels in the clear.

All you normally ever got were the locals, sometimes some of their OTA subchannel equivalents, a few other scattered "junk" channels (like shopping and public access), and the guide channel. Some cable companies will also throw in a couple of the standard ones, like TBS and The Discovery Channel (in SD).

I live in Cincinnati where Time Warner is known to use clear QAM. Although I'm not sure whether that is only in areas
that used to be serviced by the defunct Adelphia Cable.

The cincy thread is here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=306883

If you search for time warner or qam, you might find some relavant posts

toby10 & Scooper--thank you. So, just to be sure I'm getting it straight: I retain HDMI in from the Samsung for video and switch to an optical cord for audio? Or am I forced to send both via optical (and, thus, lose the slick channel menu and stuff).

By the way, I seem to find that simply shutting the Samsung off and turning it back on again tends to solve the problem. Any better ideas while I still am single-threaded via HDMI?

Correct: HDMI to tv for video, optical for audio. If you are not going to a receiver for your audio (Dolby 5.1) and your tv is not Dolby capable (few are) then you could also just use the analog outs to your tv.

Yes, cycling power usually fixes the HDMI audio drops. The point is this should not be necessary. It's a design flaw. In most cases it's no big deal by just adding optical or analog outs, but it just defeats one of the big advantages of having HDMI which is video & audio on one cable.

For that matter, removing audio from the HDMI, we may as well just hook up component cables to the tv. Usually there is no difference in video quality between HDMI and component interconnects when your video source is not 1080p.

If you have an extra component video cable set laying around, give it a try and compare the two connections. I'll bet you see zero difference. Then, down the road, if you ever buy another HDMI device you already have the cable for it. :D

OK, Ive searched this thread and cant find a solution.
Problem: The tuner is connected to a Mitsu RPTV via component w/ the two audio cables (sorry for my ignorance, but we are using the component harness with 5 cables). The main source for TV viewing is Direct TV w/o HD. So, when watching Direct TV the TV can be set at volume level 20-25 to be comfortable, however, when watching OTA HD the TV has to be maxed out at 60-65 to match the Direct TV volume. This problem occurs during HD shows and commercials.

We have tried different jacks, and using the included RCA cables for audio and neglecting the two audio cables on the component harness. Also, FYI, this Mitsu RPTV does NOT have Optical, HDMI, or Digital Coax. I have tried setting the tuner on Dolby and PCM but to no avail. Any suggestions? (Other than buying a new TV cause Ive already tried to convince them.) Thanks.

The Samsung box has a volume control and it is probably set too low. You can just turn up the volume using the Samsung remote control.

Correct: HDMI to tv for video, optical for audio. If you are not going to a receiver for your audio (Dolby 5.1) and your tv is not Dolby capable (few are) then you could also just use the analog outs to your tv.

Yes, cycling power usually fixes the HDMI audio drops. The point is this should not be necessary. It's a design flaw. In most cases it's no big deal by just adding optical or analog outs, but it just defeats one of the big advantages of having HDMI which is video & audio on one cable.

For that matter, removing audio from the HDMI, we may as well just hook up component cables to the tv. Usually there is no difference in video quality between HDMI and component interconnects when your video source is not 1080p.

If you have an extra component video cable set laying around, give it a try and compare the two connections. I'll bet you see zero difference. Then, down the road, if you ever buy another HDMI device you already have the cable for it. :D
Problem: audio drops from the Samsung 260F to my Onkyo SR605 receiver.
Status: Solved. Thanks for the help toby10 and scooper. Here's the fix:

1. I'm retaining the HDMI cable in from the Samsung box to the receiver, for transmitting video. At the moment I have nothing better to use that second Onkyo HDMI input jack for, anyway, and I understand that if I do not use HDMI for the video connection I lose the channel menu (which I like).

2. I added two component wires from the audio out L/R on the Samsung to the audio in on the receiver. Thus: video in via HDMI, audio in via component. On the Onkyo, then, I left the HDMI input settings as is (input 1 DVD, input 2 Samsung tuner) and changed the digital in settings for Cab/Sat from "HDMI2" to "---".
Haven't had any drops since then. (Yet.)

Note: friends who have seen what I'm getting in Seattle over-the-air simply cannot believe I'm not paying a monthly fee. It's great.

You'll still get the menus over the component connection - it's composite and S-video that do not display the menus on the 260

Let's get some terminology correct

HDMI - you got this one.
Component - Video only, using 3 coax-type cables. Cables are color coded Red, Blue Green, but they are designated Y-Pb Pr. This connection IS capable of 1080i HDTV and lower resolutions.
S-Video - the DIN 4 pin plug. only NTSC - also video only
Composite - the Yellow RCA jack. also video only
Red/White RCA jacks - audio only

hey how do u change the time on the receiver ? it keeps changing every time and i get no channel info any help ?? thanks

hey how do u change the time on the receiver ? it keeps changing every time and i get no channel info any help ?? thanks

Your local stations are sending incorrect PSIP data.

Call or e-mail the station, I have found the TV engineers in my area helpful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSIP

It gets the time from the TV stations. So if the time isn't correct, I'd place a friendly call to that stations engineering department, so they can get their PSIP info fixed.

My insight on this - the station is probably using a PC to provide the input to their PSIP / MPEG2 encoders and time on PCs drifts unless you're taking extra effort to keep it locked (ala NTP - Network Time Protocol).

Note: friends who have seen what I'm getting in Seattle over-the-air simply cannot believe I'm not paying a monthly fee. It's great.

One of my friends thinks I'm breaking the law! :)

Question/Observations:
Last night, as the TV show "Criminal Minds" was coming on, I was able to access the "detail information" to see what the show was about. A few minutes later, I checked it again, and it was gone. Is that normal? Do most TV stations only send out detail info at the top of the hour then stop?

Also, one gripe about the 260 - I wish it would display the same info you see when you press "info" when you are flipping though the channels.

One of my friends thinks I'm breaking the law! :)

Question/Observations:
Last night, as the TV show "Criminal Minds" was coming on, I was able to access the "detail information" to see what the show was about. A few minutes later, I checked it again, and it was gone. Is that normal? Do most TV stations only send out detail info at the top of the hour then stop?

Also, one gripe about the 260 - I wish it would display the same info you see when you press "info" when you are flipping though the channels.

It's most likely the broadcasters not sending correct or consistent data. It's all still quite new to even the broadcasters so they are tweaking, playing, learning as well.

If you own a digital ready monitor/TV with HDMI, DVI, or Component (RGB) video inputs, this receiver will work great for your applications. However, if you own an analog monitor/TV with only S-Video or Composite video inputs, you will have some feature limitations such as: Not being able to see the On Screen Display menus, including the setup and channel information. Also, adjustment of the Screen Format settings (ie: 16:9, 4:3, letter box, pillar box, etc.) only adjusts the HDMI and Component video outputs of this box. It will NOT adjust the S-Video and composite video outputs of this box. The S-Video and composite video outputs of this box are fixed at the Full Screen 4:3 settings only. The picture quality using the S-Video input of an analog monitor/TV is great even for the limitations of an analog monitor/TV. In order to view the OSD menus using an analog monitor/TV, you have to connect the Green/Y component video output of this box to a Yellow composite video input of your analog monitor/TV (the picture will be in black and white). This receiver does receive in the clear, over the air digital ATSC transmissions with a properly installed and correctly tuned antenna system. It also receives in the clear, unscrambled QAM Digital Cable TV signals, depending on your Cable TV carrier/provider. In a summary, if you own a digital ready HDTV monitor/TV then this is the receiver/tuner for you. If you own an analog monitor/TV and don't mind the minor inconveniences listed above then this is the box for you, otherwise I would wait for the new Digital TV Set Top Converter Boxes that should be out in the early part of this year (2008) for converting over the air, in the clear, digital TV signals to your analog monitor/TV. Enjoy your new, clear digital TV programming. Happy New Year. Fred N4YQT

Hi Fred;
Welcome to the forum and thanks for summarizing what is known about this box. It's good for newcomers who may find it daunting to scan through the previous 2400+ posts.
One thing to clarify - The boxes menus are available (in full color) on analog TV's that have component inputs. It will output 480i through the component outputs. This was a major factor in my decision to purchase.

I purchased this box for my Acer PJ in my HT so i can watch HD upstairs. compared to our olevia 532 TV w/ ATSC tuner, this pulls in channels WAY better. I am only using a T shaped FM radio antenna connected to a 2 screw post converter to coax (ghetto i know) and it picked up 20+ stations on first go without any special positioning. The guide is great, hookup was easy and it looks awesome. if you are looking to get a HD ATSC tuner, this is definitely it. found new for about $130 bucks.

Dave

ha ha,
here is my antenna
http://www.radioshack.com/sm-buy-the-dipole-fm-antenna-on-wwwradioshackcom--pi-2062691_tb-techSpecs.html

$5
cant beat that.

ha ha,
here is my antenna
http://www.radioshack.com/sm-buy-the-dipole-fm-antenna-on-wwwradioshackcom--pi-2062691_tb-techSpecs.html

$5
cant beat that.

Yup, simple is better! I personally know of at least six people who have gone out and purchased new antennas (roof, attic, set top) cuz they fell for the "HD compatible" on the boxes! When I tell them their old existing antenna was just as good (if not better) they think I am pulling their leg!

I've always wanted one of these for my 30" Samsung HDTV "monitor" but the price was always too high. I wonder if the price of this will go down when the market gets flooded with those cheap "government cheese" STBs that only output 480i RF/composite.

I just wish Uncle Sam would let us use one of those $40 coupons (that comes from some of the auction money) on this instead of one of those crappy "NTIA approved" boxes. Since the spectrum that they are auctioning off belongs to us taxpayers, I think it would be only fair that they let us have a choice on what ATSC tuner we want to buy.

I've always wanted one of these for my 30" Samsung HDTV "monitor" but the price was always too high. I wonder if the price of this will go down when the market gets flooded with those cheap "government cheese" STBs that only output 480i RF/composite.

I just wish Uncle Sam would let us use one of those $40 coupons (that comes from some of the auction money) on this instead of one of those crappy "NTIA approved" boxes. Since the spectrum that they are auctioning off belongs to us taxpayers, I think it would be only fair that they let us have a choice on what ATSC tuner we want to buy.

That would be nice, but it's two completely different boxes that are designed to do two completely different things. ;)

Just got the samsung, hooked it up via hdmi for OTA signals with Panasonic LCD monitor. Only issue is sound is not in sync with picutre on some channels. One is particularly bad, and most of the others are tolerable. The sound is a little bit pefore the picture. This wekend I will test to see if the same is true with component hookup. Anyway, is this likely to be a hardware defect, or a broadcast problem (since one of the channels is worse than the others -- Ch 27, Lexington KY).

check out this thread fellas:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=972197

the echostar tr50...it may go well with the samsung 260 box. im using my samsung 260 box with my twc nyc services for ota hd channel. will the echostar do the same? if yes, i may get rid of samsung 260 box and just keep the echostar for ota hd viewing and recording.

For all holding their breath with the outcome of my problem with receiving Atlanta Comcast cable on my H260F tuner, the wait is over! I will admit to missing a golden opportunity to compare my replacement tuner to the one returned to CC, I completely forgot to record the firmware on that first unit. I believe its manufacture date was 2006.11 but I could be mistaken. I do remember it was so old it seemed to coincide with the release to the public. The replacement tuner is marked 2007.03, firmware rev., ah...how do I view the rev. number? :o

Anyway, there are clear differences in the two tuners. First, the replacement operates MUCH cooler, the 'Aspect' button now give 16:9 Pillar mode (missed having that with the older tuner) and even better, connecting the cable and scanning (in STD Cable mode) netted 306 total channels! Clearly my older firmware wasn't happy tuning QAM frequencies or something.

The scan was performed with the main feeder cable connected straight to the 260. I did a second scan using the cheesy push-on coax provided with the tuner and hooked into the cable system two splitters downstream of the main feed. Netted 313 total channels! Now there's the arduous task of weeding out all the dud channels but I think I'll survive :D

Too bad the Signal Strength "meter" is not active when receiving cable channels. I would have loved to see the difference in level in the first and second scans. Oh well.

If there's anything else I discover that could add to the database of info, I'll post it here. Thanks everyone.

There has to be different versions of this unit. Let me explain why.

Last year(April/May) I bought one of these to see what QAM channels we had in this area. Scanned channels and found:
101.1 CBS-HD
112.3 NBC-HD
112.4 CBS-HD
114.1 ABC-HD
114.3 FOX-HD

I took it back to Circuit City. My plan was to buy a new Samsung TV with a built tuner later in the future.

I bought an LNT5271 in December. However I was shocked to find that all the channels above were there EXCEPT for 114.1 which is channel we cannot pick up here OTA!

I immediately ran out to buy another 260H to confirm it wasn't my cable. It did the EXACT same thing as the 5271 and could not find 114.1.

I have had two friends bring over their Vizio and Sony TV and pick up 114.1 with no problems. I have also purchased a Pinnacle HDTV PCI card and can pick up 114.1 also.

I'm at a loss as to what to do. I took back my 260H last night. :(

There has to be different versions of this unit. Let me explain why.

Last year(April/May) I bought one of these to see what QAM channels we had in this area. Scanned channels and found:
101.1 CBS-HD
112.3 NBC-HD
112.4 CBS-HD
114.1 ABC-HD
114.3 FOX-HD

I took it back to Circuit City. My plan was to buy a new Samsung TV with a built tuner later in the future.

I bought an LNT5271 in December. However I was shocked to find that all the channels above were there EXCEPT for 114.1 which is channel we cannot pick up here OTA!

I immediately ran out to buy another 260H to confirm it wasn't my cable. It did the EXACT same thing as the 5271 and could not find 114.1.

I have had two friends bring over their Vizio and Sony TV and pick up 114.1 with no problems. I have also purchased a Pinnacle HDTV PCI card and can pick up 114.1 also.

I'm at a loss as to what to do. I took back my 260H last night. :(

It could be a signal strength problem. Some devices are more sensitive than others. Are you using a splitter? If so, try removing the splitter and run the cable directly to the unit and rescan. If you find that you have a signal strength problem, you can either reconfigure your splitter(s) or get a signal amplifier.

It could be a signal strength problem. Some devices are more sensitive than others. Are you using a splitter? If so, try removing the splitter and run the cable directly to the unit and rescan. If you find that you have a signal strength problem, you can either reconfigure your splitter(s) or get a signal amplifier.

Nope. Went from the demarc straight to the TV and then the STB with no luck. No splitters for the test.

One of my friends thinks I'm breaking the law! :)

Question/Observations:
Last night, as the TV show "Criminal Minds" was coming on, I was able to access the "detail information" to see what the show was about. A few minutes later, I checked it again, and it was gone. Is that normal? Do most TV stations only send out detail info at the top of the hour then stop?

Also, one gripe about the 260 - I wish it would display the same info you see when you press "info" when you are flipping though the channels.

I've noticed the same thing. The "detailed information" in the Info display of my DTB-H260F seems to randomly come and go. Yet the same information is always available on my new Vizio 20" TV. Has anyone else noticed this problem with the DTB-H260F? Any ideas on why the TV always displays the "detailed information", but the DTB-H260F sometimes does not?

Correct: HDMI to tv for video, optical for audio. If you are not going to a receiver for your audio (Dolby 5.1) and your tv is not Dolby capable (few are) then you could also just use the analog outs to your tv.

Yes, cycling power usually fixes the HDMI audio drops. The point is this should not be necessary. It's a design flaw. In most cases it's no big deal by just adding optical or analog outs, but it just defeats one of the big advantages of having HDMI which is video & audio on one cable.

For that matter, removing audio from the HDMI, we may as well just hook up component cables to the tv. Usually there is no difference in video quality between HDMI and component interconnects when your video source is not 1080p.

If you have an extra component video cable set laying around, give it a try and compare the two connections. I'll bet you see zero difference. Then, down the road, if you ever buy another HDMI device you already have the cable for it. :D

I'm considering adding the Samsung for a 1080p front projector. Will run a short HDMI over to the projector (I did read early on that someone thought a "crisper" picture w/ HDMI vs component). I will then will need a 20' or 25' Toslink optical to connect to my AV receiver. My question is has anyone been using a comparable length optical cable and have any issues? I have only used digital coax and no experience with the other. Thanks.

I currently have a 46" Samsung DLP TV that does not have a QAM tuner, and I bought the DTB-H260F tuner to receive the free HD channels that my cable company (OTEC - small local carrier) has. When I let the box auto program the channels, it picked up 21-11 and 36-11 as well as the music channels and many more that are not used. The problem I have is that it is not picking up the lower end channels 8-1, 8-2, 8-3, and 11-1. I cannot directly tune to these channels either. Has anyone had this experience? Thanks in advance for any replies!

I'm considering adding the Samsung for a 1080p front projector. Will run a short HDMI over to the projector (I did read early on that someone thought a "crisper" picture w/ HDMI vs component). I will then will need a 20' or 25' Toslink optical to connect to my AV receiver. My question is has anyone been using a comparable length optical cable and have any issues? I have only used digital coax and no experience with the other. Thanks.

I don't run any optical beyond 3 feet, but you should not have a problem at 25 feet as that is what really differentiates optical from coax: long runs without outside RF interference. It's a shame you can't get your H260f closer to your AV gear.

I'd also suggest buying from monoprice.com for any cable needs. Very reasonable prices and excellent build quality.

I currently have a 46" Samsung DLP TV that does not have a QAM tuner, and I bought the DTB-H260F tuner to receive the free HD channels that my cable company (OTEC - small local carrier) has. When I let the box auto program the channels, it picked up 21-11 and 36-11 as well as the music channels and many more that are not used. The problem I have is that it is not picking up the lower end channels 8-1, 8-2, 8-3, and 11-1. I cannot directly tune to these channels either. Has anyone had this experience? Thanks in advance for any replies!

You might want to confirm that the channels you are not getting are not encrypted and are not re-mapped elsewhere in QAM.

You might want to confirm that the channels you are not getting are not encrypted and are not re-mapped elsewhere in QAM.

Thanks for the quick reply, I will take a look at that. I currently have a 26" Vizio that has a built in QAM and picks up all of the local HD channels, that is where I got the basis for what channels they are located on. I am a little new to some of this stuff, so would the STB and the TV with the built in QAM pick up and assign the channels differently?

Thanks for the quick reply, I will take a look at that. I currently have a 26" Vizio that has a built in QAM and picks up all of the local HD channels, that is where I got the basis for what channels they are located on. I am a little new to some of this stuff, so would the STB and the TV with the built in QAM pick up and assign the channels differently?

Then they should be mapped the same. Have you tried the three different settings for scans? IRC, STD, HRC? I have no clue what the differences are, but worth a shot.

Then they should be mapped the same. Have you tried the three different settings for scans? IRC, STD, HRC? I have no clue what the differences are, but worth a shot.

I didnt try all 3 because I had no clue what they meant either. I will give it a try tonight.

I didnt try all 3 because I had no clue what they meant either. I will give it a try tonight.

May not solve a thing, but worth a scan or two or three. :)

Hi All:

New to the forum and still trying to get used to all of the digital terminology. Recently purchased the Sony XBR-4-52 and love it.

Currently using an on-air antenna; no cable here ;considering dish but with the on-air HDTV it may be enough for the present.

I am considering using the DTB-H260F (DTB) unit to extend the life of my Panasonic DMR-EH50 DVR unit with built in hard disk beyond the digital switch-over date. It seems that there is only one HDTV recorder on the market (Sony) but it is really expensive. So my thought is to use the DTB to convert digital signals over to Analog and then pump the signal into the DVR from the DTB. The only available inputs to the DVR are Composite, RF and S-Video, so I guess I would connect the DTB S-Video out to the DVR S-Video in. The output of the DVR is currently connected to the XBR-4 via component video.

I don't expect with the S-Video input that I will achive anything more than 480I resolution out of the DVR.(?) I also expect that I will lose my on-air scheduling unless there is some way to get the scheduling information into the RF input of the DVR from the DTB or some other method.

I also understand that the channel information is not directly available from the DTB unit and that without some sort of on-screen display you are tuning blind....How would I overcome this? Our HD channels here have decimal channels 2.1, 13.1 etc; will the DTB allow direct selection of channels using those decimal values? Finally, does this unit qualify for the Governments $40 rebate program?

Would appreciate any suggestions or comments on this hookup.

Thanks in advance.

also understand that the channel information is not directly available from the DTB unit and that without some sort of on-screen display you are tuning blind....How would I overcome this? Our HD channels here have decimal channels 2.1, 13.1 etc; will the DTB allow direct selection of channels using those decimal values? Finally, does this unit qualify for the Governments $40 rebate program?

Would appreciate any suggestions or comments on this hookup.

Thanks in advance.

Does your TV have either component or HDMI inputs? If so, hook the Samsung DTB-H260F directly to it. That way you can view the on-screen content. Use the composite video or s-video to go to your recorder. That way, what you see on your TV screen is what your recorder sees. Need to see the recorder menus simultaneously? If your TV has PIP (Picture in Picture), use it.

Yes, you can directly access sub-channels (2.1, 4.1, etc.) Use the "-" button on your remote.

The Samsung DTB-H260F does not qualify for the Governments $40 rebate program.

I don't run any optical beyond 3 feet, but you should not have a problem at 25 feet as that is what really differentiates optical from coax: long runs without outside RF interference. It's a shame you can't get your H260f closer to your AV gear.

I'd also suggest buying from monoprice.com for any cable needs. Very reasonable prices and excellent build quality.

Thanks for the info. Yes, I have also ordered through monoprice and have had good luck with their other cables. Other than the Samsung tuner, all my AV gear is at the opposite end of our living room from the projector. My other cables running the same distance to the projector work fine, but was not sure about the toslink as I had never used one. I will drop a note on this thread if I do have any issues. Thanks again!

The only available inputs to the DVR are Composite, RF and S-Video, so I guess I would connect the DTB S-Video out to the DVR S-Video in. The output of the DVR is currently connected to the XBR-4 via component video.

If S-video is the best it's got for input then that's what you should use. The aspect is locked and it always puts out 480i on composite and S-video and you don't get any menus either. If possible I would also use the 260 component output to your display so you can use higher resolutions but more importantly IMO so you can get at those menus easily.

I don't expect with the S-Video input that I will achive anything more than 480I resolution out of the DVR.(?)

I don't think S-video does anything higher than 480i, it just does it a little cleaner than composite.

I also expect that I will lose my on-air scheduling unless there is some way to get the scheduling information into the RF input of the DVR from the DTB or some other method.

If you're talking about timed recording you're practically out of luck. The only possible options are a Harmony remote assuming they can change the channels for you on a timer, or to have your computer do it with an IR blaster of some sort. I can't help much with either one, they're just ideas.

I also understand that the channel information is not directly available from the DTB unit and that without some sort of on-screen display you are tuning blind....How would I overcome this? Our HD channels here have decimal channels 2.1, 13.1 etc; will the DTB allow direct selection of channels using those decimal values?

The '.' is a '-' on the 260, the meaning is the same. You don't *need* to see to change the channel it just helps lots. I "tune blind" as you put it constantly as I only have a standard def TV. Now if my TV had component inputs I'd be set, the box can be switched to only put out 480i and menus are available on component. Sadly I'm stuck with old junk..

Finally, does this unit qualify for the Governments $40 rebate program?

Nope. Those boxes won't have HDMI, probably won't have component, possibly won't have S-video. They will have RF out and most likely composite. They will NOT output high def in any way. They will not have any digital audio out either, they'll downmix to 2-channel stereo. That is the info I've gathered from reading the boards here, if I'm mistaken someone please correct me.

Can't expect too much since those boxes will be considered low end.

I am getting the Mits HC6000 projector this week and have a few questions concerning this tuner. Are there any issues running 35' of cable to this projector? It also mentions a guide with this tuner. Does it work like other guides and shows what is actually on? One more question - will the Harmony 880 remote work with it?

I am getting the Mits HC6000 projector this week and have a few questions concerning this tuner. Are there any issues running 35' of cable to this projector? It also mentions a guide with this tuner. Does it work like other guides and shows what is actually on? One more question - will the Harmony 880 remote work with it?

- My H260f had audio & video drops running a 50' HDMI cable

- Guide works *if* your tv stations properly send the data, usually hit or miss per station

May not solve a thing, but worth a scan or two or three. :)

I tried it again on all 3 settings, the second time I did it on the first setting it picked them up. Not sure why it took a couple of times, but happy it did pick them up. Thanks again for the help!! :D

If S-video is the best it's got for input then that's what you should use. The aspect is locked and it always puts out 480i on composite and S-video and you don't get any menus either. If possible I would also use the 260 component output to your display so you can use higher resolutions but more importantly IMO so you can get at those menus easily.



I don't think S-video does anything higher than 480i, it just does it a little cleaner than composite.



If you're talking about timed recording you're practically out of luck. The only possible options are a Harmony remote assuming they can change the channels for you on a timer, or to have your computer do it with an IR blaster of some sort. I can't help much with either one, they're just ideas.



The '.' is a '-' on the 260, the meaning is the same. You don't *need* to see to change the channel it just helps lots. I "tune blind" as you put it constantly as I only have a standard def TV. Now if my TV had component inputs I'd be set, the box can be switched to only put out 480i and menus are available on component. Sadly I'm stuck with old junk..



Nope. Those boxes won't have HDMI, probably won't have component, possibly won't have S-video. They will have RF out and most likely composite. They will NOT output high def in any way. They will not have any digital audio out either, they'll downmix to 2-channel stereo. That is the info I've gathered from reading the boards here, if I'm mistaken someone please correct me.

Can't expect too much since those boxes will be considered low end.

Thanks "dbsc" and others for your comments. At this point I think I'll wait and see what other manufacturers will offer as we get closer to the actual switchover date.

At this point I think I'll wait and see what other manufacturers will offer as we get closer to the actual switchover date.

You should check out the Echostar TR50, coming out this summer.

You should check out the Echostar TR50, coming out this summer.

"Perhaps most interestingly, the TR-50 includes an Ethernet port and the ability to decode MPEG-4 video"

YES!! No more burning stuff to DVD-RW just to watch it once! I want one of these bad now, even if it is made by Dish.

http://ces.cnet.com/8301-13855_1-9840910-67.html

- My H260f had audio & video drops running a 50' HDMI cable

- Guide works *if* your tv stations properly send the data, usually hit or miss per station

The FCC has made it clear that stations must provide PSIP program guide information or be in violation of the rules effective 120 days after the latest periodic review is published in the federal register.

The FCC has made it clear that stations must provide PSIP program guide information or be in violation of the rules effective 120 days after the latest periodic review is published in the federal register.

*shrug* Those may be the rules, but from being an OTA digital tv watcher for over a year I can tell you that the OTA data in my market is sporadic and many times incomplete. One local station has never, not once, provided data for it's broadcasts.

It may be that this rule becomes affective in Feb 09 with the analog to digital OTA mandate. Just a guess. :)

*shrug* Those may be the rules, but from being an OTA digital tv watcher for over a year I can tell you that the OTA data in my market is sporadic and many times incomplete. One local station has never, not once, provided data for it's broadcasts.

It may be that this rule becomes affective in Feb 09 with the analog to digital OTA mandate. Just a guess. :)

To add - Stations must also use a common time-keeping system. I've found that with my Samsung 260 that if I set reminders on two different shows on two different channels which are concurrent (one follows the other), occasionally I will get an error message claiming that the shows overlap, when in reality they dont.
This will become increasing important as OTA DVR's become more popular - or could be their unfortunate demise.

*shrug* Those may be the rules, but from being an OTA digital tv watcher for over a year I can tell you that the OTA data in my market is sporadic and many times incomplete. One local station has never, not once, provided data for it's broadcasts.

It may be that this rule becomes affective in Feb 09 with the analog to digital OTA mandate. Just a guess. :)

If this is still the case in four months you can report the problem to the FCC. The FCC can not do anything about such problems if they do not know about it.

To add - Stations must also use a common time-keeping system. I've found that with my Samsung 260 that if I set reminders on two different shows on two different channels which are concurrent (one follows the other), occasionally I will get an error message claiming that the shows overlap, when in reality they dont.
This will become increasing important as OTA DVR's become more popular - or could be their unfortunate demise.

Uh huh. ;)

If this is still the case in four months you can report the problem to the FCC. The FCC can not do anything about such problems if they do not know about it.

Yeah, but life is too short for me to be bothered with a minor annoyance. I have a business to run. Now maybe if I ever get to the point where I have an OTA DVR that is being affected by this, I may just spend the time to contact the FCC.

I'm guessing, by then, this will all be worked out and better managed. I would speculate that much of this missing/incomplete OTA data has a lot to do with the broadcasters learning their new equipment & procedures.

I just wanted the original poster's question regarding OTA data to be answered by a current H260f user. Yes, it works, *if* the broadcaster is sending the data. :)

Some people actually do hope to use and depend on that feature of the Samsung tuner to be able to program recordings when mated with their DVD or VCR's.

If this is attributable to a "learning curve", then it's sure taken them awful long, considering they're supposed to be well-trained engineers. You say you've only been aware of the problem for the past year, but I can assure you, it's been the usual situation all over the country since the first PSIP-capable digital tuner was ever released, more than a few years ago.

There really shouldn't be any excuse for it - unless there's some kind of "incentive" involved (I'll leave that to you to speculate).

Since I would guess that most stations are using a PC to generate their PSIP information, getting good, accurate time is NOT difficult. Built into Windows XP, Windows 2000 and Vista is the NTP service. All they have to do is put that on a network where the PC can get to the internet, and point them at an NTP server to keep good time. I've actually pointed that feature out to one of my local TV engineers to get their Windows 2000 based PSIP PC into good, steady time. He was most appreciative (someday, I'm going to have to ask for a tour :D ) . And just because they're pretty sharp on TV engineering doesn't mean they are up on all things PC related.

This is a thank you note to posters who recently offered tips on setting up component output to an analog set using the Samsung H260F. This week I tried it connected to a bedroom JVC 32" analog. Did a channel scan and now have an absolutely incredible HD-looking 480i picture on 20 channels, including locals, as an option to RF cable.

Since I would guess that most stations are using a PC to generate their PSIP information, getting good, accurate time is NOT difficult. Built into Windows XP, Windows 2000 and Vista is the NTP service. All they have to do is put that on a network where the PC can get to the internet, and point them at an NTP server to keep good time. I've actually pointed that feature out to one of my local TV engineers to get their Windows 2000 based PSIP PC into good, steady time. He was most appreciative (someday, I'm going to have to ask for a tour :D ) . And just because they're pretty sharp on TV engineering doesn't mean they are up on all things PC related.

Yup. And I would also guess that someone at the local station must manually enter much of this program data. Maybe the data for current network shows already have the data when the local affiliate gets the feed from the network? But on syndicated shows & re-runs I'd bet that data has to be manually entered for each show. Might be some intern or secretary responsible for this, who knows. :confused:

I agree with the other posts, the data should be present, accurate and complete, no excuse. But for my current needs it's hardly worth getting worked up about. I channel surf on cable and if I decide to watch a show that is available OTA (HD) I turn on my H260f and press the HDMI input on the tv. For those relying on that OTA data, I can certainly see why they would be far more aggravated. :(

The FCC has made it clear that stations must provide PSIP program guide information or be in violation of the rules effective 120 days after the latest periodic review is published in the federal register.There are many problems with PSIPs in my area too. I would have already complained to the stations and the FCC but was unsure as to whether there were loop-holes that allowed the stations to not have PSIP data yet. Your statement implies this to be the case. Can you possibly elaborate on this "120 days after the latest periodic review"? Perhaps you could point me to the source of this information. It would be real handy to know when approching either the offending stations or the FCC.

Also, I received a assurance from a Fox DTV engineer that said that all stations broadcasting DTV without proper PSIP information are already in violation of FCC regulations... but trying to decipher FCC regulations is much like trying to untangle barbed wire. It is also very hard to tell what are the latest rules or loop-holes that apply. I also have found, at least with some federal/state regulations, that I have had to deal with, that there is what they (the regulators) want you to think the regulations say and then there is what they really say, and sometimes that includes loop-holes like what you have metioned.

dmatch

There are many problems with PSIPs in my area too. I would have already complained to the stations and the FCC but was unsure as to whether there were loop-holes that allowed the stations to not have PSIP data yet. Your statement implies this to be the case. Can you possibly elaborate on this "120 days after the latest periodic review"? Perhaps you could point me to the source of this information. It would be real handy to know when approching either the offending stations or the FCC.

Also, I received a assurance from a Fox DTV engineer that said that all stations broadcasting DTV without proper PSIP information are already in violation of FCC regulations... but trying to decipher FCC regulations is much like trying to untangle barbed wire. It is also very hard to tell what are the latest rules or loop-holes that apply. I also have found, at least with some federal/state regulations, that I have had to deal with, that there is what they (the regulators) want you to think the regulations say and then there is what they really say, and sometimes that includes loop-holes like what you have metioned.

dmatch


The FCC third report and order can be found at:

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-228A1.pdf

For more information or the Word version go to fcc.gov and look under headlines for:

12/31/07
Third Periodic Review of the Commission's Rules and Policies Affecting the Conversion to Digital Television.

I'm looking for a used DTB-H260F that was an early build (2006). Anyone have one for sale?

I'm looking for a used DTB-H260F that was an early build (2006). Anyone have one for sale?

Ok, I'll bite. :D

Why do you want an early build?

Although I suspect few will respond, you may want to add to your post how people can check the build level and (aprox) what you are willing to pay for it.

I'm looking for a used DTB-H260F that was an early build (2006). Anyone have one for sale?

I wondered why you wanted to buy an old one too. Anything to do with this post? http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12788852#post12788852

I wondered why you wanted to buy an old one too. Anything to do with this post? http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12788852#post12788852

Yep.

Hey yall i just bought a the Samsung tuner but the volume seems to be really low. I pretty much have to put it up to samsung box up to100 an the tv up to 20 to hear anything. Is that normal?

the volume seems to be really low. I pretty much have to put it up to samsung box up to100 an the tv up to 20 to hear anything.

Set the volume on the Samsung box to max, that's normal. Also set the sound output to PCM, not Dolby Digital, see page 37 of the manual. I've found that DTV has a lower audio level than analog.

Hello All:

Purchased the 260F (November Build) from Amazon and received it a few days ago; Just hooked it up this morning. Setup is a Philips HD-Ready TV with an OTA antenna in the attic. I connected that antenna to the input of the 260 then ran the antenna output of the 260 to the Philips antenna input so I can continue to watch NTSC if I want. Next I connected the 260 component outputs over to the Philips 1080i inputs and powered up.

Next I did the 260 Air auto-scan and came up with 22 Air Channels; not too bad. We live just outside of Albuquerque and I can see all of the towers on the Mountain about 5 miles line-of-sight to the East. Picture is great, colors are correct, so I think everything is hooked up properly.

My problem, well actually I have two. First, the 260 refuses to pickup one of our local channels, in this case channel 13 which also uses sub-channel 13-1. I tried rescanning three or four times but to no avail, channel 13-1 will not present. Selecting the channel manually displays the message "Weak or No Signal". Just to make sure I went to another TV (Recently purchased Sony Flat-screen) and checked to see if 13-1 was transmitting and it was.

Does anyone have any idea why the 260 can't "See" this one channel?

My other problem is that on one channel the picture and Audio were broken up. (Signal strength was one bar short of full) The picture would freeze with some random digial artifacts would present then it would clear up for a few seconds then break up again. Fussing with some of the cables and switches in the back I was able to stabilize the picture and the Audio. As I said it only effected one of the channels. I'm not sure if I have (had) a bad switch contact or some other connection but it seems to have corrected itself; at least for now.

Has anyone else had a similar problem?

As others have mentioned, I had to crank the 260's Audio up to 100% to get acceptable audio levels out of the Philips.

It would appear that my inability to receive Channel 13 was an antenna thing. I relocated the box to another room where I have a different antenna and when I did an auto-scan using that antenna, Channel 13 was properly detected. I guess the geographical location of the Channel 13-1 transmitter is somewhat out of the effective pickup width of the other antenna...lesson learned.

The second problem still persists however because when I connected everything back up to the Philips, I once again got the intermittent reception on channel 5-1. Fiddleing with the antenna connections on the back of the 260 corrected it. I must have a bad connection somewhere, although thinking logically, if that were the case it would effect all of the channels, not just one. hmmmm...... a frequency related intermittent....interesting!

It would appear that my inability to receive Channel 13 was an antenna thing. I relocated the box to another room where I have a different antenna and when I did an auto-scan using that antenna, Channel 13 was properly detected. I guess the geographical location of the Channel 13-1 transmitter is somewhat out of the effective pickup width of the other antenna...lesson learned.

The second problem still persists however because when I connected everything back up to the Philips, I once again got the intermittent reception on channel 5-1. Fiddleing with the antenna connections on the back of the 260 corrected it. I must have a bad connection somewhere, although thinking logically, if that were the case it would effect all of the channels, not just one. hmmmm...... a frequency related intermittent....interesting!

You pretty much hit it! :)

Digital signals are touchy, antennas make a difference, different digital tuners will "tune-in" signals that others cannot.

Welcome to the DIGITAL AGE! :D

Sorry if this has gone over already, but has anyone found they can't get their TV guide through the cable, or if anyone knows why this is so?

I can get it from OTA and I have two other QAM tuners that get channel info, but my 260 never displays. Just no information.

I took it back to the store for another, and it's the same.

I called Samsung support and a tech said it must be the cable. But my other tuners have guide info.

I use Comcast in Portland.

Gill

Sorry if this has gone over already, but has anyone found they can't get their TV guide through the cable, or if anyone knows why this is so?

I can get it from OTA and I have two other QAM tuners that get channel info, but my 260 never displays. Just no information.

I took it back to the store for another, and it's the same.

I called Samsung support and a tech said it must be the cable. But my other tuners have guide info.

I use Comcast in Portland.

Gill

When you say you have two other QAM tuners, do you mean two cable boxes supplied by the cable co?

Usually, clear QAM does not include programming and channel info as this requires the cable box to translate the info.

Sorry if this has gone over already, but has anyone found they can't get their TV guide through the cable, or if anyone knows why this is so?

I can get it from OTA and I have two other QAM tuners that get channel info, but my 260 never displays. Just no information.

I took it back to the store for another, and it's the same.

I called Samsung support and a tech said it must be the cable. But my other tuners have guide info.

I use Comcast in Portland.

Gill

I have the same situation. My 260 does not get the program guide over cable, but my Vizio TV does get the guide using its internal tuner (no cable box or cable card). I have been hoping for a firmware update from Samsung, but so far they haven't released one.

I'm actually surprised to hear that the Vizio does. I didn't think any QAM tuner did. None of the many that I have ever had, (including the 260) do.

When you say you have two other QAM tuners, do you mean two cable boxes supplied by the cable co?

Usually, clear QAM does not include programming and channel info as this requires the cable box to translate the info.

No Comcast boxes, I have a PHD-101 STB and a dvico Fusion Gold 3 pci card.

Does anyone know of any DTV STBs that have a 5th-gen 8VSB chip, as well as RS-232 control capability? Samsung offered some DirecTV tuners a few years back with RS-232, but those didn't include 5th-gen chips. Comcast seems to have no idea what RS-232 is, let alone whether they offer that feature in their equipment. I want RS-232 so that the control will be very robust (vs. using an RS-232-to-IR translator, which can be unreliable) when integrated into a Crestron system. I've already spent numerous hours researching this, all to no avail. Any suggestions?