Samsung DTB-H260F ATSC tuner [Text View] - Page 2

Doug G

11-25-06, 08:42 PM

I just found out about this new receiver yesterday and read this entire thread with great interest last night. I've been searching for a replacement for my archaic Panny TU-HDS20 STB for several years. Despite some less than glowing comments here, I checked and eventually found one at a local CC which I bought today (their only one in stock.) I hope you'll all indulge me a bit since it's been a bit of a journey to get to this point.

I'm a "late" early adopter of HDTV. As I was current DirecTV subscriber, back in 2000 I decided to purchase a Panasonic TU-HDS20 to use with my new Pioneer Elite 510. The irony here is that I've only ever used it for OTA HD. I waited probably a year for all the issues with this box to be worked out and when it finally hit store shelves at $999 I waited until my local Tweeter had them discounted to $799. There weren't many choices available for STBs at that time, pretty much RCA DTC-100, a Panny TU-DST50/51 (if you could even find one), and the HDS20. No way was I paying $2k for Pioneers plug-in HD tuner which was mediocre at best. Several years ago, and after many antenna/pre-amp upgrades, in an effort to improve my reception I took a chance and purchased a TU-DST52 (OTA only) from 1-call. For now, suffice to say its been sitting, practically new, boxed in my basement for 3+ years.

But after reading this thread all those years of dealing with lousy reception, constant reboots, quirky slow menus, and returns for HW/SW upgrades finally boiled over and I decided to try this one out.

I'm in New England, so the terrain is very uneven, lots of trees and of course, weather. I'm on the north facing slope of a valley, about 1/3 way from the top, which is roughly 25-30 miles from the towers which are due south. As if that weren't enough there's a several hundred foot high "hill" directly in my LOS (if you can even call it that!) so all I get are reflections and multipath signals. Currently running a CM4228 in the attic using a Winegard AP-4700 19dB moderate gain pre-amp, all mounted on a CM rotator. Even with all this setup to say my reception is challenging is an understatement. If air traffic gets routed so its flying over my house, even at several thousand feet, it creates enough multi-path interference that the HDS20 drops out. Wind and rain? Fogettaboutit. If I had a dollar for every time my wife nagged me to just "switch to satellite already!" because of the constant dropouts.... ;)

The DST52 I tried out several years back offered no real improvement in reception capability for me and was an utter disappointment in terms of PQ. A quick A/B comparo with the HDS20 revealed a horrendous amount of over-sharpening and lack of high-frequency response which made the picture lose all its three dimensionality and did horrible things to fine detail. Call it a $369 failure. (BTW, if anyone wants it, I'm open to any and all reasonable offers.) So back in the box it went and I returned to using my HDS20 as my OTA receiver, bugs and all.

I thought about trying another STB, but recently there haven't been many around as all new HDTVs are shipping with integrated tuners. Dual 8VSB/QAM interested me, especially after installing my folks new Panasonic plasma and seeing that the bandwidth limited QAM stuff actually looked pretty good. (But then again, it is only a 37" set so that will help out in that area.)

So when I returned home today I hooked it up alongside my HDS20 and began some critical viewing and evaluation. Please keep in mind I've had this unit for a grand total of about 8 hours at this point so my observations here are based on only my use in that time period.

Reception - To say I've been amazed would be putting it mildly. The tuner in this unit blows away the HDS20. Stations I could only receive before if my antenna vector was perfect (within 2-3 degress) now hold lock +/- 40 degrees!! Signal strength meter is a plus, HDS20 has none. It even picked up every station out of NH with my antenna facing the Needham towers (due south)!! Weather conditions are very good today (no wind or precip) and I've had no dropouts to speak of at all. The HDS20 on the other hand has been its usual finicky self, even more so being 3dB down on signal due to the splitter. But at the same signal levels the Samsung has been flawless. The only issue I've had was early on the box did hang when I tuned to a sub-carrier on one particular channel and required a reset to clear, but I was unable to reproduce this. As one previous poster commented, it won't pick up any QAM channels from my local cable operator but I'm not to sure about their availability in my town. I tried all three cable modes but something tells me the fact that no unscrambled channels above cable ch 25 are available is the reason. Or could be they're using the high band and this box can't tune those frequencies. I need to do more investigation here, I've got no real experience with QAM short of using the auto-program functionality which "just worked" on the Panny plasma at my folks house. (Incidentally, their cable system does deliver ch 26-125 unscrambled so now I really wonder if this is it. A quick check of cable frequency mappings would seem to indicate this is the problem, I get nothing beyone ch 23 - 217MHz.) But the OTA reception is so good if it keeps up I'll be happy to just use that. Besides, I found using an A/B coax splitter decreased the sensitivity enough that some stations wouldn't scan and its a pain to switch back and forth anyway. If I can get it working for QAM that will just be gravy, certainly not returning it with such superior OTA reception.

Menu/GUI - Anything would be an improvement over the HDS20 here. I've found it to be perfectly usable. Never had Dish-anything so its new to me. Response is good and things are nicely organized. Does what it needs to do.

Features - I like the aspect control, although as others noted I wish it would be smart enough to memorize a mode for each source signal type. (480i SD in full doesn't make much sense.) I'm ambivalent about the volume control, although glad I found it since it explained why my audio was sooooo loooow, but I do like the mute feature. Saves me a macro on the Pronto to mute every possible audio device I could be using. Freeze is neat, but I wonder what this will ever be useful for. Info provides more info than the HDS20. I'm also intrigued by the guide, my current receiver is probably so out of spec in terms of PSIP SW that I had no idea stations were actually sending out scheduling info beyond the current program! That said, some do still report "No information." Boot time seems a little on the long side, about 7-8 seconds, but no big deal.

Picture quality - Ah, at last we arrive at that great conundrum which has dogged me until this very day. You see, even though the HDS20 sucks at pretty much everything, the one area where it completely excels is analog component video. At $1k MSRP in y2k, this was a high-end unit and it was designed accordingly. Digital interfaces hadn't yet been standardized or even offered on HD-ready sets. The HDS20 was designed and marketed at the early adopter videophile. It uses a custom reference design video ASIC. It incorporates a high-end scaler capable of any of 6 different modes using any input format. It even includes an option to use RGBHV if to be connected to a high-end RPTV or CRT projector. With an ISF'd Elite 510 and the HDS20, when I do get HD reception, I've been basking in reference quality HD component video for the last 6+ years. As I've watched the digital interconnect revolution grow at astonishing pace, I've been resigning myself to the fact that I'd probably never get to replace the HDS20 until I ended up replacing my 510 since quality analog component video just wasn't available in consumer grade video gear these days - it simply wasn't needed. The DST52 proved that. But this is where I was pleasantly surprised by the Samsung unit. When I saw that ATI was at the heart of this unit, I held out some guarded optimism that the analog video quality would be very good since their video cards are constantly reviewed as having some of the best video quality available today for PCs. I wasn't disappointed. While not able to match the exacting fine detail of the HDS20, it does offer about 90% of the PQ at nearly 20% of what I originally paid for the HDS20. There's no excessive EE like the DST52 and while there does seem to be some slight high-frequency rolloff which dulls the finest details ever so slightly by comparison, by no means is it poor in any regard. Color is quite good. So, not on par with the HDS20 but a very admirable performer indeed. Of course, if you're planning to use the HDMI output, you really don't care about any of this analog video stuff....

Sorry to ramble on a bit, but I thought this might be a good opportunity to give a little perspective. Its always the negative or not-so-perfect stuff which seems to get emphasis around these parts, and that's not a bad thing. But I hope my experience helps illustrate how good these devices have actually gotten in the last 5 years. I got more functionality, 1000% better reception, and 90% of the PQ for about 20% of what I originally paid for the "reference quality" HDS20 only 6yrs ago, and that's saying something!

ekb

11-25-06, 08:52 PM

Liked your story Doug.

Ed

Dmon4u

11-25-06, 11:48 PM

Thanks for the review !

akron05

11-26-06, 12:40 AM

Anyone else noticed some GREAT DXing last few days?

Doug G

11-26-06, 07:32 AM

I forgot to mention to mention above that at the first CC I went to looking for the unit, the presumably senior sales associate in the displays area was actually surfing AVS looking for information and comments on a new display they had just received. This was encouraging!

One last thing about the Samsung unit, the boot time is fairly long at about 7-8s. I haven't measured it but its considerably longer than my previous unit. No big deal, though.

rrroae

11-26-06, 10:22 AM

I've been following the OTR threads for about 6 months and thought I'd finally register to post my observations. Unfortunately, me experience has not been as good as Doug's.

Where to start. Ok, first tried going the SDTV route. Sanyo 27" SDTV was my first attempt at receiving digital OTR signals. Using a Radio Shack 190 VHF/UHF antenna and a 25db Radio Shack amp(all new), I was able to see my first digital OTR signal. After watching fuzzy analog for years, I was shocked at the picture quality. I was able to get 2 digital signals in the morning until about 11 am and 3 channels after 8 pm. This gave me hope.

I went on to purchase 27" SDTV's made by Sony, ILO, RCA, Emerson(LCD), Sanyo(LCD) and RCA. Ironically, the best digital OTR reception I got was with the cheapest TV, the 27" ILO. It pulled in signals better and longer than any of the other TV's I tried.

After countless hours reading topics here on antennas and OTR stb's, I bought a huge Wineguard UYHF/VHF antenna, along with their 25 db amp. The antenna gave me marginally better analog reception but the wineguard amp made a huge difference from the Radio Shack model. From here I bought my 1st otr stb, a Pro Brand 3150. The first thing I noticed was how much later into the evening it took to get a signal. 2 weeks later it went back.

Next after unsuccessfully attempting to get an LG 4200, I was told by the owner of my local mom and pop store, how sensitive the Panasonic stb's were. Bought a Panny hd-52 off Ebay and tried it out. Yes it was sensitive but only in picking up bad otr signals.

After trying all these different option, I thought I would never be able to get reliable otr digital signals until I saw Samsung was coming out with a supposed 5th gen stb that utilized the Gemini chip. Waiting patiently, I read all the speculation concerning this revolutionary stb and how it was going to defeat everything from multipath to week signals. After countless calls to Best Buy and CC
I finally got the 1st one they had. Rushed home and got ready for the big event.
Before I hooked up the Samsung, I checked out the reception with the Panasonic so I could do a comparison. What I found was the Panasonic would see digital signals that the Samsung wouldn't detect. They wouldn't come in but they were still detected. On the other hand, the Samsung would detect stations I had never previously detected but they wouldn't come in either. The Samsung would show a signal from 68 that would go up to 94% for a brief second and then drop out.
It would not lock onto the signal until late at night, the same as my Panasonic, with no discernible difference. This was significantly worse performance than the cheap 27" ILO TV I had previously tried and thru my experience, was the most able to pull in digital signals. I know that a TV with a built in digital tuner will outperform a stb but still disappointed. Also of note, the stb's were run thru a 14 Sylvania TV and the only way to show the menu screen on the Samsung is to go from the Samsung component video to the Sylvania composite video. Also, I am on a S facing slope 88 miles to my stations so my situation is iffy at best. Just want to let people who have long distances/sensitivity issues know that in my opinion, the Samsung is probably not the cure to your problems. Sorry for the long post but I've really enjoyed this forum and felt I should finally contribute something

Rick0725

11-26-06, 10:37 AM

Doug.

Ducting has been rather strong in your area (and here also) since mid last week. It will settle down midweek (Wednesday).

http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html

Check your reception again then when ducting is less of a factor and more of an indication of everyday reception.

jtbell

11-26-06, 11:19 AM

I am on a S facing slope 88 miles to my stations so my situation is iffy at best.

That's for sure! :( I have the same antenna as you, and the only station that I can receive reliably at 80+ miles is on top of a 5000+ foot mountain (I'm down in the piedmont at about 700' elevation). All other stations in that range come in only sometimes at night, when atmospheric conditions are favorable.

You might improve your reception sufficiently by switching to a top-line UHF only antenna like the Channel Master 4228 or Antennas Direct XG91, which I think provide about 4-5 more dB in signal strength than the Radio Shack. I've been thinking about doing this myself, to improve some of those marginal stations. It hasn't been a pressing problem for me, though, because I can reliably get all the stations from my primary city, and the marginal stations are all from other cities.

rrroae

11-26-06, 11:39 AM

Jtbell, Switched from the Radio Shack 190 to the Wineguard 7084. The only marked improvement came from using the Wineguard amp vs the Radio Shack amp. Already tried the 4228 with no difference in reception. Is the Direct XG91 an improvement over the Wineguard 7084? Are there channel Master amps better than the Wineguards?

Besides a good antenna/amp setup, I think people who live in fringe areas would be better served using TV's with built in ATSC tuner's than seperate STB's. I'm on solar so I think I'll have to wait until they come out with 20" TV's with integrated ATSC tuners or I may give the mythical 5th gen LG stb tuner a try if they ever appear(stand alone version).

Davinleeds

11-26-06, 11:41 AM

Getting a signal over a hill/mtn at 40 miles is even difficult for this Samsung, but it locks in a little better than the PB3150 I have, over level land - no problems. Better at night, diffraction/refraction, the atmosphere cools off. Thanks Rick0725 for that bookmark. BTY, I'm getting that XG91 you have recommended on other posts. Of the 4 stb's, this samsung is better. The next step is an antenna sweetspot.

rrroae

11-26-06, 11:50 AM

Davinleeds, would you mind posting the results of the XG91 if you get it? I've tried the Radio Shack 190, Wineguard 7084 and Channel Master 4228 and am looking for something a little better.

Davinleeds

11-26-06, 11:54 AM

Sure, It's in transit. Since I'll be using the Samsung, I'll post here.

Doug G

11-27-06, 10:14 AM

Ducting has been rather strong in your area (and here also) since mid last week. It will settle down midweek (Wednesday). Check your reception again then when ducting is less of a factor and more of an indication of everyday reception.
Great link! Yes, I definitely will. The experience at my present location for the past 5yrs is that weather (wind/rain) and leaves on trees (which I can't get above) tend to affect my reception using the HDS20 more than anything else. With both boxes simultaneously hooked up to the my AP4700/CM4228 over the weekend, even with the better DX'ing, the differences were remarkable. But that's probably to be expected going from a gen1 to gen5 tuner.

There's supposed to be some nasty weather moving in late week and combined with the decreased DX forecast, I agree it should give me a worst case scenario test. I'll be sure to post results!

John Mason

11-27-06, 11:23 AM

.
After countless hours reading topics here on antennas and OTR stb's, I bought a huge Wineguard UYHF/VHF antenna, along with their 25 db amp. The antenna gave me marginally better analog reception but the wineguard amp made a huge difference from the Radio Shack model.
Interesting tale. Thanks for the description. Couldn't help but wondering if you tried the maximum practical antenna elevation; suppose, but not sure, that a rotatable antenna wouldn't make much difference for extreme ranges.

Believe it or not, you're getting better reception than I am only ~10 blocks from mid-town Manhattan transmitters. I rely on signals reflected from an adjacent building, so multipath rejection is key here. Can't tune any HD signals on my year-2000 RPTV's built-in tuner, but have a wide selection of cable TV. Before the World Trade tower disaster, could tune several distant HD stations. -- John

DonB2

11-27-06, 03:07 PM

rrroae,

"Also, I am on a S facing slope 88 miles to my stations so my situation is iffy at best"

So the stations are to the North of you on the other side of the mountain?

"I know that a TV with a built in digital tuner will outperform a stb but still disappointed. "

Really ? I never thought this to be the case. Always figured the built in ATSC would be a older version or a version with less features and quality.

-DonB2

arxaw

11-27-06, 03:16 PM

...I think people who live in fringe areas would be better served using TV's with built in ATSC tuner's than seperate STB's. Being integrated or standalone is not why certain tuners are better than others. It's the chipsets used in the tuner that make the difference. Generally, the newer the tuner, the better.

Rammitinski

11-27-06, 03:17 PM

It would be interesting to see someone actually do some comparison testing. I have on occasion read in reviews of expensive displays some mention of the built-in digital tuner's overall reception abilities, but not really in the cheaper HD and SD sets.

I also kind of believed that at this stage of the game, TV tuners were probably inferior to standalone tuners in general, since your paying a premium for the separate box, and it's a specialty item. Other than the chipsets, the other parts to the tuner may be cheaper or corners may have been cut. Depends on the quality of the TV in general, I suppose. Somewhere down the road they'll probably catch up though, I would think - like when they are included in all sets, and they are making no more standalones.

Rammitinski

11-27-06, 03:32 PM

Generally, the newer the tuner, the better.At least, up till the 4th gen. chips, for sure. I've heard talk of the 5th giving up some sensitivity at distance reception in order to be better with multipath (may have even been mentioned at one point in this thread - I'm too lazy to look now). Don't know yet how true that is, but I heard that one of the reasons it's been taking so long to be released on a larger scale so far is that they have brought the design back to the drawing board just because of that.

I seem to remember a couple of posts around here where people actually compared the two and said that generally, the 4th gen. came out ahead at distance.

DonB2

11-27-06, 04:06 PM

I remember asking awhile back if there were any improved STB OTA ATSC tuners and I was told the LG was an improvement over the SAMSUNG SIR T450, but the LG was a built into TV only model. So I guess it can be true. But now I see that LG will be coming out with a STB OTA ATSC DVD combo unit.

I do know that my built in Pioneer 43 inch Plasma ATSC tuner is nothing great. It really suffers with Multipath issues. I won't even talk about its lousy TV show guide that takes many minutes to build and the second you touch any key it loses the guide and you have to have it rebuilt all over again.

By the way I drove 1200 miles last week and picked up one of the new Samsungs in NY. Could not find any locally here in Raleigh , NC but just happend to see one on the shelf in Bingo NY while I was there over Thanksgiving.

-DonB2

rrroae

11-27-06, 07:10 PM

I also kind of believed that at this stage of the game, TV tuners were probably inferior to standalone tuners in general, since your paying a premium for the separate box, and it's a specialty item. Other than the chipsets, the other parts to the tuner may be cheaper or corners may have been cut. Depends on the quality of the TV in general, I suppose. Somewhere down the road they'll probably catch up though, I would think - like when they are included in all sets, and they are making no more standalones.

It would only make sense that a stand alone stb would be of higher quality than a TV with an integrated ATSC tuner. What I can't explain though, is why did a cheap $207 27"ILO TV not only outperform comparable Sony, RCA and Sanyo SDTV's but also hands down outperform my stand alone Pro Brand 3150 and Samsung 260 stb's. I also kept each unit for at least 2 weeks to compensate for bad atmospheric conditions. In my experience, all the SDTV's except the RCA outperformed these stb's for my situation(long range, multipath). If the ILO wasn't such a lousy TV besides its digital reception, I would have kept it.

I'm trying my best to get even 1 digital signal reliably. Thats all I need and I think if I keep up to date with this site eventually I'll work it out. I know my situation is only relevant to a small segment so if you guys feel that my info could confuse or lead people in the wrong direction, please let me know. Everything I have learned
about hdtv reception has been from all of you, so I want to help not hinder.

SnellKrell

11-27-06, 07:25 PM

In my experience, it's all in the chip!!!

Until recently, my over-the-air reception was picked up using the highly directional Silver Sensor indoor antenna. The Silver Sensor fed my Sony SAT HD300 DirecTV receiver.

I live in the canyons of Manhattan with an apartment surrounded by taller buildings.

The Sony, with a 4th generation chip, has done what I have believed to be an admirable job dealing with all the multipath problems I have.

About three months ago, I installed a Sharp LC-37D90U HD set with an unadvertised 5th generation chip.

I've split the signal from the Silver Sensor antenna to the two separate tuners.

The difference is extraordinary!!!

On those occasions when the Sony can't produce a signal or a stable one, the Sharp tuner locks on and provides a rock-solid picture!

So, I vote for chips being more important than if the tuner is a STB or built into a television set.

sungek

11-27-06, 09:32 PM

Davinleeds

11-27-06, 09:53 PM

Volume is lower than other stb's . I have to set box at 90% then use tv remote.

gadzby

11-28-06, 12:38 AM

However, the sound seems to come in abnormally low compared to my last tuner. I used to watch TV on a volume setting of 30-35 and now i have to get to 70-75 to get the same result. Is anybody running in to any similar issues and is there any way to fix it?
Out of the box, the volume control setting on my 260 was much less than 100%. Did you try boosting the 260 audio output level using the remote?

nameless33

11-28-06, 06:45 AM

About three months ago, I installed a Sharp LC-37D90U HD set with an unadvertised 5th generation chip.

Gee, you'd think they might advertise that.

No accounting for the inexplicable HDTV industry weirdness.

Ugly thought for the day:
Oh, now tell me that costco sharp 32" LCD with all the unadvertised advanced features also had a 5th gen tuner chip inside ;)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8388026&&#post8388026

anthandle

11-28-06, 09:23 AM

I just recently got this tuner and the reception on it is great. However, the sound seems to come in abnormally low compared to my last tuner. I used to watch TV on a volume setting of 30-35 and now i have to get to 70-75 to get the same result. Is anybody running in to any similar issues and is there any way to fix it?

When I first set mine up I had the same problem. The only thing I did was to turn the volume up on my TV to somewhere in the middle of the volume range. Now I use the volume control on the STB and I am in the 5-10 range in a large room. If you want to use the TV volume then increase the STB volume to a higher level.

Hope that works for you.

Later,
Anthony

arxaw

11-28-06, 09:33 AM

In my experience, it's all in the chip!!!

Until recently, my over-the-air reception was picked up using the highly directional Silver Sensor indoor antenna. The Silver Sensor fed my Sony SAT HD300 DirecTV receiver.

I live in the canyons of Manhattan with an apartment surrounded by taller buildings.

The Sony, with a 4th generation chip, has done what I have believed to be an admirable job dealing with all the multipath problems I have.

About three months ago, I installed a Sharp LC-37D90U HD set with an unadvertised 5th generation chip.

I've split the signal from the Silver Sensor antenna to the two separate tuners.

The difference is extraordinary!!!
I agree it's all in the chips.

I recently read a review of tuner tests that found absolutely no correlation between the price of integrated TVs and performance. In fact, on average, the tuners in lower priced TVs outperformed higher priced sets.

scribe5

11-28-06, 10:56 AM

Here's a somewhat off the wall question regarding the DTB-H260F--can it be hooked up to a home theater pc to record programs? I'm not satisfied with the tuners I already have in the box. Would like to feed what the H260f picks up and send the digital sigal to the pc to record, maybe even using the installed Beyond TV software to sked the recordings. The playback would be through the PC's graghics card via a div to hdmi cable. The PC does not have a firewire port, but that can easily be installed. Any thoughts or suggestions truly welcome.

DonB2

11-28-06, 11:28 AM

rrroae,

I wonder if you are experiencing the range vs multipath issue of the 5th gen chips at least as found in the Samsung.

Maybe the Samsung Handles multpath better than it handles picking up extended range stations.

BTW- can you receive Sat at your location?

-DonB2

DonB2

11-28-06, 11:33 AM

Ok I will admit it, I am an idiot .

Last night I was trying to get the TV guide to work on my new Samsung and was not seeing anything. Than my brother pointed out I was pressing the colored button and not the Guide button directly below it.

When I finally pressed the correct button I was impressed to see how quickly the tv guide info was filled in and how the downsized version of the channel selected is on the screen in the beginning and not displayed after the tv guide is built.

The tv guide on this Samsung is blazingly fast compared to the one built into my Pioneer 43 inch Plasma.

I also think the Samsung remote has better range than the one that was shipped with the SIR T 451's.

-DonB2

dbudworth

11-28-06, 11:46 AM

Just purchased the DBT-H260F yesterday, hooked it up using a rabbit ear antenna. This is my first HD STB, but I'm really not too impressed with the picture quality. I currently have digital cable. When I hooked it up last night, I was watching CSI broadcast in 1080i. It didn't look any better than what the digital cable does. Is there a setting either on the box or on my TV to change. I have the switch on the back of the receiver on 1080i and also using a HDMI to DVI cable to my TV. My TV is a Toshiba CRT RPTV model number 42HDX82

When watching a channel being broadcasted in 480, its really blocky and unbearable to watch.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

If I can't get a better picture, the unit is going back and I'll have to stick with digital cable. I was hoping to cancel cable if I can get the STB to look good.

Thanks again for any help.
D

windycitystyle

11-28-06, 11:54 AM

what tv do you have?

dbudworth

11-28-06, 12:21 PM

My TV is a Toshiba Rear Projection CRT
Model # 42HDX82

rrroae

11-28-06, 01:31 PM

jimp2244

11-28-06, 01:31 PM

jimp2244

11-28-06, 01:34 PM

scribe5

11-28-06, 02:28 PM

Can't do it, at least not currently. You can't take the output from the H260f (or any other STB tuner for that matter) and capture it with a PC tuner. I've got BeyondTV with the ATI HDTV Wonder in my PC and that works great.

Thanks for the quick reply jimp...I have the Divico Fusion 5 and the performance is pretty good considering I'm about 35 miles from the towers with some multipath issues. The Samsung STB looks interesting in terms of hardware and a possible solution to multipath and the price seems reasonable for what you get versus the cost of PC tuner cards. My thought was that I could run the digital signal from the Sammy through either the hdmi output (via a hmdi to dvi cable) or from the component output into the HTPC, either bypassing or just uninstalling the Divico card. I wasn't sure if there was a PCI/usb interface gizmo that would accept that signal and from there use either BTV or some other software to do the HD recording. I use BTV now and really like it. I've Googled the stuffing out of this and haven't come up with anything so far.

keeper

11-28-06, 02:31 PM

Rick0725, I think I'll go ahead and get the 91xg, . I'm about 88 miles from my towers so I'll definately need something more directional. I also have a total of 20 ft of new cable(rg-6)
and no splits since even a small loss of signal makes a difference to me. Thanks for the advice.

DonB2, I can get SAT but we live off-grid and would forgo TV if we had to pay for service.

I wouldn't waste your money IMO. At that distance you will get breakups. They are very annoying. I lived in two locations and was able to get stations at 50 miles. With the change in seasons and weather the signal is not all that reliable. I think you would be better served in trying something else. Have cable? Maybe go after qam.

DougRuss

11-28-06, 02:41 PM

I wouldn't waste your money IMO. At that distance you will get breakups. They are very annoying. I lived in two locations and was able to get stations at 50 miles. With the change in seasons and weather the signal is not all that reliable. I think you would be better served in trying something else. Have cable? Maybe go after qam.

I have to agree !!
At that Distance from the Towers your not going to Enjoy much! You'll be so frustrated with the Breakups!!

But it's your $$$ !

DonB2

11-28-06, 03:50 PM

I was picking up an Elmira NY digital station from West Windsor which is East of Binghamton, NY and about 60 miles distance from Elmira as the crow flys.

The antenna is on rotor and a little over 1700ft altitude on roof as the house is at 1700ft.

The signal was viewable but it was touchy adjusting the rotor. But keep in mind the antenna is over 30 years old.

Of course maybe I was just having a lucky day and 60 miles is still long short of 88 miles.

A rule of thumb I have found is that if you don't get at least a viewable signal with analog NTSC than you will struggle with a consistant ATSC signal.

-DonB2

arxaw

11-28-06, 05:51 PM

xyzzy22

11-28-06, 07:40 PM

loo_hoo_ser

11-28-06, 09:26 PM

Hi All -

I have the DTB-H260F. Picked it up at a Circuit City in Glen Burnie, MD. Boy, I had to chase this unit down. The inventory said only 1 left in the store and I had to convince the guy who worked there to keep looking in the stock room until it finally turned up.

Backstory - I bought this unit for QAM reception on Comcast Cable. I have an Sony GWIII so it does not have a built in ATSC tuner. I do have HDTV via Comcast but I have problems getting the set top box work with closed captioning for HDTV programming (EIA708). Anyway when I got my Panasonic plasma TV for my downstairs room, it has built in ATSC tuner for QAM programming. I was surprised to see the captions work for all the stations that my Comcast set top box did not display. Rather than fighting with Comcast to convince them that their STB was flawed, I decided that maybe a STB for clear-QAM would give me access to closed captioning. With this Samsung unit, I was right! It picked up all my QAM channels (clear) and was able to display the closed captions.

However, a major caveat: this unit has picture breakups! I can't explain it, the picture sometimes breaks up as if the signal is poor. How can it be poor - the Comcast STB was perfectly happy with it, in fact, I have it on a splitter between the STB and the Samsung. I even tried removing the splitter, no improvement. Strange that a much older box is better at QAM decoding than the newer Samsung (I've had the Comcast STB for a while now, maybe 3 - 4 years now. It's a Motorola DCT6100).

Anyway, when I did a channel scan with the Samsung, I was able to pick up almost 320 QAM channels! Obviiously, a good chunk of those are scrambled so I won't see those. What is odd is my Panny picks up different channels that the Samsung does not see, and the Samsung picks up channels that the Panasonic missed. Go figure!!! I figure that the Panasonic ATSC tuner has a wider range than the Samsung, but that doesn't explain why the Panasonic missed some channels that the Samsung STB caught.

Bottom line, I bought this unit to get access to more closed captioning performance and it delivers. However I am disappointed that it has issues with ipicture breakups with what appears to be signal quality issues. I might have a defective unit but I can't just take it back and ask for another one - I had a hard time getting this one as is!! Why are they so hard to get?!?!

I am wondering if there is a firmware update for this Samsung STB to maybe improve my signal quality - I can't imagine I have a weak signal, I have a video amplifier in the coax distribution network.

Finally, is there a service menu for this Samsung STB so I can see the error counts and the automatic gain control setting so I can get an idea if the signal is being boosted and if the error counts are increasing? I can see this information on my Motorola STB.

Thanks.

gadzby

11-28-06, 10:38 PM

I've also seen intermittant small picture breakups with Comcast unencrypted QAM on a few specific channels (e.g. ch 2-1). Some days it's fine, then others the breakups return again. Other than those occasional glitches, it's working great.

I just checked the Samsung website - no firmware updates listed yet.

arxaw

11-28-06, 11:23 PM

...I can't imagine I have a weak signal, I have a video amplifier in the coax distribution network...It's quite possible that you have too much signal. A variable attenuator from Radio Shack would be a good test. You can always return it if it doesn't help.
http://tinypic.com/2czorw7.jpg

hbrown

11-29-06, 09:32 AM

But keep in mind the antenna is over 30 years old.

I have heard that antenna performance deteriorates over time due to exposure to elements (of course, I mean antennas mounted outside...).

I wonder what the optimal replacement schedule is, for example, 5 years at the most to keep peak performance?

arxaw

11-29-06, 10:09 AM

Deterioration may vary widely, depending on the type of equipment you have and how well it was weatherproofed during install. Weatherproofing the coax connectors and baluns helps a lot.

As for a schedule, if it ain't broke.....

AirData

11-29-06, 12:00 PM

I hooked up my DTB-H60F to my cable provider, Mediacom, scanned the channels and it found a boatload of encrypted channels and about 50-60 unencrypted channels. Quite a few were music channels. I get a few PPV or VOD channels in the clear. I think most of the HD channels, except for locals, are encrypted. I haven't had a chance to go through all the channels to make sure.

The guide doesn't show any information on the channels. Do I have to have the STB on for awhile before they show up or will I never get them?

The box seems nice so far. I haven't tried OTA yet.

--AirData

Doug G

11-29-06, 02:43 PM

I live in the Natick, Mass area and have comcast cable.

I received the Samsung DTB-H260F unit today but could not get the DTB to pick up any stations off the Comcast cable. I tried the cable/std, cable/irc and cable/hrc modes. The DTB is supposed to be able to get QAM in the clear channels.

I was able to get the digital stations off Comcast using a PrimeDTV unit and an LG LST-4200 earlier this year. I no longer have these units so I can't try them again.

The Samsung unit works fine for OTA channels.

Some questions.

- Has anyone successfully been able to get this box with work with comcast? How about in Mass?

- Is the QAM feature of the Samsung not compatible with Comcast in Mass?

- Any thoughts on why this is not working and what I might try?

I'm in the same situation up in Andover, MA. Since I only get "lifeline" cable (ch2-22 only, I use D* for cable ch's) I figured they were just filtering out the QAM frequencies. But at least one other poster earlier in this thread also claimed it failed to pick up QAM channels that he could receive using a PC-based tuner card.

Its not a huge issue for me right now, the OTA reception capability has been so rock-solid, its looks as if I might not even need QAM as a backup unless a category 2 hurricane ever makes it way up here!! :)

keeper

11-29-06, 03:35 PM

arxaw

11-29-06, 05:13 PM

I just picked up this unit today. After scanning for QAM It displayed 191 channels but none showed a picture. I subscribe to cable 2-27. Shouldn't this tuner at least show those channels?? Is the reason why because this stb only displays hd stuff???It only receives digital channels. If your "cable 2 thru 27" is only analog, you won't see those chs on this box. You need to use your TV's analog tuner or a VCR for analog.

keeper

11-29-06, 05:14 PM

Well, after removing the cable splitter I now get my hd locals over QAM. This is what I wanted so everything worked out for me. For those of you having QAM issues mine wouldn't work with the cable going through a splitter. One thing that I'm confused on is this units inability to accept ota and cable at the same time. Is there a way around this?
Thanks

Davinleeds

11-29-06, 05:23 PM

Scan, Auto Program, Air and Cable? No cable here, so can't try.

keeper

11-29-06, 05:48 PM

Scan, Auto Program, Air and Cable? No cable here, so can't try.

Yes, but the Samsung only has one input for either cable or ota??? I don't see a second input.

Davinleeds

11-29-06, 06:04 PM

Page 13, use a combiner.

keeper

11-29-06, 07:34 PM

Page 13, use a combiner.

Awesome. Thanks

arxaw

11-29-06, 09:07 PM

You can't combine OTA and cable on the same coax.

AirData

11-29-06, 10:20 PM

You can't combine OTA and cable on the same coax.

I was wondering about this myself. What about a diplexor? Combine OTA with cable then into the STB. Do you think the STB has a diplexor built-in to separate the signals, since it just has one input?

arxaw

11-29-06, 10:30 PM

Unlike satellite, cable uses the same frequencies that OTA uses for many of its channels. So you can't use a diplexor for OTA & cable signals like you can w/ OTA & many satellite systems.

If your tuner only has one RF input, you'll have to use an A/B switch.
http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-2110634w345.jpg (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2049643&cp=&origkw=a%2Fb+switch&kw=a%2Fb+switch&parentPage=search)

dspm1

11-29-06, 11:23 PM

windycitystyle

11-30-06, 08:22 AM

can you guys tell me what settings to put the samsung on? i have it hooked up with an optoma h27 which can handle 720\1080. should i put the switch on the samsung to 480 or 1080 for my hd channels?

keeper

11-30-06, 08:28 AM

Well, I don't get any EPG from comcast QAM either. OTA EPG works fine. I also have break-up issue with one channel (CBS 9.1) QAM. Again no problem with OTA. So far OTA works better than QAM. Maybe I should cancel the Comcast basic service?

I'd experiment with 720/1080i. What looks better?
Can you elaborate on the difference in pq between ota and cable. My qam stations are inferior to ota. Comcast must be compressing them. Ota is a tricky thing. Somedays its great but with the change in seasons and weather reception can go down hill fast. Nothing more annoying than having a football party and having breakups. I am pretty far away from the transmitters though. I just don't understand why Samsung didn't include another input. Unless you use an a/b switch its either qam or ota not both.

Doug G

11-30-06, 10:26 AM

windycitystyle - I'm unfamiliar with that display but in general you should use whatever the native mode is on the display. The less conversions you put the source thru, the better it will look. OK, just Googled that, so its an EDTV projector with native 856x480. But it looks like it can up-convert to various HD output formats since the spec'd max resolution is 1400x1050 or thereabouts. (I've been out of the DLP loop for quite some time, is this the "wobulation" I heard about to get higher output resolutions than the native chip provides?) Tough call. It will really depend on the source material and scaling capability of the unit. You'll likely have to do some critical viewing at several settings to decide what looks best.

keeper - there's only so much bandwidth on a wire, and most cable systems are approaching the limits. For this reason they reduce the encoded rate (full HDTV is 19.2Mbps) usually to anywhere from 9-13Mbps. As you've noted, this causes a noticable reduction in picture quailty. If you have a smaller display (like my folks 37" plasma) it may be less of an issue, but once you get above 50" its definitely a consideration.

arxaw

11-30-06, 10:38 AM

can you guys tell me what settings to put the samsung on? i have it hooked up with an optoma h27 which can handle 720\1080. should i put the switch on the samsung to 480 or 1080 for my hd channels?Your TV can accept multiple resolutions, but what is the display resolution of your TV? Look at the specs in the manual if you're not sure.

windycitystyle

11-30-06, 11:39 AM

thanks guys

dspm1

11-30-06, 12:59 PM

I'd experiment with 720/1080i. What looks better?
Can you elaborate on the difference in pq between ota and cable. My qam stations are inferior to ota. Comcast must be compressing them. Ota is a tricky thing. Somedays its great but with the change in seasons and weather reception can go down hill fast. Nothing more annoying than having a football party and having breakups. I am pretty far away from the transmitters though. I just don't understand why Samsung didn't include another input. Unless you use an a/b switch its either qam or ota not both.

agree with Doug - Comcast seems to compress more. I live 12 miles from the towers, and this samsung tuner can pick them up easily no matter where I point my indoor Terk antenna to (haven't had bad weather since I got this tuner, we will see). It can also pick up signals from stations 32 miles away but I really have to point the antenna in the right direction.

Still don't quite get why QAM has break-ups with some channels. Maybe the signal is too strong as arxaw suggested.

By the way, does signal strength meter work with QAM singals?

keeper

11-30-06, 02:37 PM

agree with Doug - Comcast seems to compress more. I live 12 miles from the towers, and this samsung tuner can pick them up easily no matter where I point my indoor Terk antenna to (haven't had bad weather since I got this tuner, we will see). It can also pick up signals from stations 32 miles away but I really have to point the antenna in the right direction.

Still don't quite get why QAM has break-ups with some channels. Maybe the signal is too strong as arxaw suggested.

By the way, does signal strength meter work with QAM singals?

Thanks, No Qam signal doesn't seem to work with the SS. You might want to try running it through a few cables or splitters. Did you investigate to see how that station is on cable? Maybe they are having issues with it. It doesn't make sense why you are getting breakups. It seems station/cable related.

DonB2

11-30-06, 02:58 PM

When I used the Samsung DTB-H60F and the Samsung SIRt450 with QAM on Adams Cable out of PA I also had one channel that consistantly pixelated. I believe it was one of the major over the air networks. I blamed it on Adams.

As I recall all channels over QAM showed 100 percent signal strength but don't hold me to this.

arxaw, do I ever find that A/B switch you describe frustrating. I use one to switch between my two attic mounted antennas in Raleigh,NC and the transmitter has to travel from1st floor thru 2nd floor and than up into the attic. I can't tell you how marginal the switiching is. I wish I could locate a wireless switch with more transmit control range.

Keeper, That is interesting about QAM not going thru a splitter , I will have to try that.

I agree with everyone else about the cable/ota input coax on the back of the DTB-H60F being confusing. I think it would have been much better if Samsung had supplied two coax inputs one for cable and one for ATSC OTA. Than the ant switch on the DTB-H60F would make more since.

Using a combiner to combine OTA and cable before connecting to the coax in makes since but I am pretty sure that your cable provider will not be happy with this kind of set up.

Getting back to OTA ATSC. I thought in Binghamton , NY that the DTB-H60F picked up more stations than the Samsung SIRT 450 that I had tested previously. But it could have been the atmospheric conditions mentioned in this post that made the DTB-H60F appear to have such good range.

On the other hand I compared my older generation Pioneer 43inch Plasma built in tuner to the DTB-H60F here in Raleigh NC and the Pioneer actually picked up a additional remote station "PAX" 47.1 that the DTB-H60F could not.

I have read elsewhere that the DTB-H60F is good at handling multipath issues but is not neccessarily good at picking up stations over a long distance. This appears to be the case for me.

-DonB2

keeper

11-30-06, 06:12 PM

Anyone compare the outputs of the Samsung? Component vs HDMI. I'm not totally happy with the pq through component. Still images flash. There is a technical name for flashing still images but I can't remember it now. Some kind of bug or something? I will comment that the ota tuner so far is very good. I have three more stbs (rca,hdtivo, and E*211). In my limited testing the Samsung is at the top. I am 45-55 miles away from transmitters and 5 out of 7 channels are at full strength. All stbs measure differently though. This is certainly a flimsy box that doesn't have a lot of the features other stbs have. With that said it seems to lock ota/qam very well. Worth the price that is for sure.

Doug G

11-30-06, 06:18 PM

keeper - I noticed the same behavior on the radar sub-channel of our local ABC affiliate here in Boston. Cr@p!! I think I also may have noticed this during a few scenes on HD programming. I recall thinking my power supply board (see the "Elite 510 problems" in the Rear Projection displays area) might be starting to flake out again.

I'm going to do some more critical viewing tonight and will post results. I don't recall any general problem with still frames "flashing" (brightness) but there can definitely be artifacts and other weirdness happen depending on if its a field vs frame thats frozen, particularly on an interlaced display I think.

keeper

11-30-06, 06:43 PM

Yep, I just connected Hdmi and the pq looks the same. My picture is blown up to 104 inches though so everything is magnified. IMO if you don't need QAM look for another stb. QAM is the only reason I purchased this stb and it works well. OTA looks very nice on it too but I would say my other ota tuners look a tad better. This is being picky though. Many will be pleased with this stb but as I said previously it lacks some nice features my other stbs have. The lack of dual inputs really suck.

bigpoppa206

11-30-06, 09:01 PM

Any chance the DTB-H260F would work with my Comcast account (basic + HSI) and my Samsung TX-R2678WH to receive local HD channels?

ekb

11-30-06, 10:51 PM

Any chance the DTB-H260F would work with my Comcast account (basic + HSI) and my Samsung TX-R2678WH to receive local HD channels?That's about a definitely yes. Comcast has a policy of no encyption of local digital broadcasts.

Ed

Doug G

12-01-06, 08:22 AM

I spent several hours last night watching both HD and SD programming. I'm using the component outputs set to 1080i (Elite 510 this is the only option - no HDMI, no 720p.)

Based on that I'm revising my prior statement above. I didn't see any flashing which was related to brightness on either HD or SD material. That said, I did still note this during some programming on Fox Tue, but there could have been any number of reasons for that, incl my sets power supply board starting to go south again. I'm thinking thats not the case since that brightness incident has been isolated to that one time in the week I've had the box.

However, one thing I do see, which I mistakenly reported above as "flashing", is that still images in native 480i do "pulse" on screen. No doubt this is an effect of the scaling to 1080i since most of the picture is now interpolated. With my previous box, I used its "hybrid" mode much of the time (480i/p output as 480p, 720p/1080i output as 1080i) so this particular program (local radar) was always output in 480p. But the HDS20 also has a really, really good scaler. Within the last year I switched it to output only 1080i (like H260F) since I never watch any SD OTA, and checking that radar sub-channel every so often I never recall seeing any issue like this.

Time will tell, and I'm a fairly critical viewer (its a curse ;) ) so I'm sure if there's some issue relating to the component outputs it'll show up sooner or later. Hopefully its something that could be addressed by a SW upgrade or at the worst a HW fix by Samsung.

For me this box is still a keeper, esp given its great reception for my case where multi-path rejection is paramount. Even despite the windy, overcast, moisture-laden atmospheric conditions last night, the only problem I has was an occassional dropout on my weakest station (WLVI-DT, DTV ch 57) which is only transmitting about 40kW and on the best days never registers more than 4 out of 10 bars on the signal strength meter. I watched the strength meter as the received signal level bounced around and was amazed that the H260F could reliably hold a solid picture/sound even at only 20% (2/10 bars) received strength.

keeper

12-01-06, 08:45 AM

Thanks for your review. I am seeing a lot of artifacts on things like trees and other still images. This could be the fault of my cable company. Even ota has some artifacts that isn't there with my Dish211. Still the pq is very good and my comments on pq should not pursuade anyone from purchasing this stb.

I spent several hours last night watching both HD and SD programming. I'm using the component outputs set to 1080i (Elite 510 this is the only option - no HDMI, no 720p.)

Based on that I'm revising my prior statement above. I didn't see any flashing which was related to brightness on either HD or SD material. That said, I did still note this during some programming on Fox Tue, but there could have been any number of reasons for that, incl my sets power supply board starting to go south again. I'm thinking thats not the case since that brightness incident has been isolated to that one time in the week I've had the box.

However, one thing I do see, which I mistakenly reported above as "flashing", is that still images in native 480i do "pulse" on screen. No doubt this is an effect of the scaling to 1080i since most of the picture is now interpolated. With my previous box, I used its "hybrid" mode much of the time (480i/p output as 480p, 720p/1080i output as 1080i) so this particular program (local radar) was always output in 480p. But the HDS20 also has a really, really good scaler. Within the last year I switched it to output only 1080i (like H260F) since I never watch any SD OTA, and checking that radar sub-channel every so often I never recall seeing any issue like this.

Time will tell, and I'm a fairly critical viewer (its a curse ;) ) so I'm sure if there's some issue relating to the component outputs it'll show up sooner or later. Hopefully its something that could be addressed by a SW upgrade or at the worst a HW fix by Samsung.

For me this box is still a keeper, esp given its great reception for my case where multi-path rejection is paramount. Even despite the windy, overcast, moisture-laden atmospheric conditions last night, the only problem I has was an occassional dropout on my weakest station (WLVI-DT, DTV ch 57) which is only transmitting about 40kW and on the best days never registers more than 4 out of 10 bars on the signal strength meter. I watched the strength meter as the received signal level bounced around and was amazed that the H260F could reliably hold a solid picture/sound even at only 20% (2/10 bars) received strength.

vstone

12-01-06, 09:40 AM

I just picked up this unit today. After scanning for QAM It displayed 191 channels but none showed a picture. I subscribe to cable 2-27. Shouldn't this tuner at least show those channels?? Is the reason why because this stb only displays hd stuff???If you have only the basic package, the cable company probably has a filter on your line to filter out the other analog channels. This probably filters out all of the digital channels. That is what I saw at a vacation home. I told the tech to remove the filter and (some of) the clear QAM channels appeared.

arxaw

12-01-06, 11:03 AM

If you have only the basic package, the cable company probably has a filter on your line to filter out the other analog channels. This probably filters out all of the digital channels.This is correct.

In many areas, a package of 30 or less channels is called "lifeline" basic. It usually includes the analog locals, a weather ch and a few shopping & misc. channels. Cablecos often install a filter on the line to block the channels above the lifeline basic package. This will also block the local digital OTA stations carried by the cableco from being viewed, as these channels are nearly always on higher frequencies.

jakesnakemd

12-01-06, 06:08 PM

I posted this a couple of days ago on another thread which appears to be about dead. Any help would be appreciated.

I finally found a DTB-H260F Samsung Digital Set Top box yesterday at the Wheaton, MD Circuit City. Brought it home but can't get it to work. I have an older Samsung model TC7100S 31" tv that is currently getting analog over the air (set top amped antenna) and also Dishnetwork satellite. I hooked up the box for what they said was for a Normal (non-digital ready tv), since I only have composite and S-video plugs. The box powers up fine, but I can't get an on screen menu to scan for channels. Samsung tech support (level 2) told me, if I can get a channel, I should get the menu (not the program guide, which needs component or HDMI). Have tried everything, but no go.

Can anyone help? Thanks in advance.

Doug G

12-01-06, 07:14 PM

Menus only work over component or HDMI outputs, not the composite/S-vid. If your set doesn't have these (not HD) this is not the STB for you. I encourage you to read back in this thread, the info you're looking for is there.

mikemikeb

12-01-06, 07:47 PM

For people with a composite jack hooked up to the TV, you can connect the other end to the "green" part of the component output. This will make images display in black and white, with all menus visible on-screen.

OhioState87

12-01-06, 10:24 PM

Hello guys. I'm new here and new to all of this so please bear with me. I recently bought a TV that had built-in ATSC and NTSC tuners. Now, I have no idea what those stand for but I do know that one is analog and the other is digital. I let the TV scan for stations and I was suprised at how many I got. Even though the TV wasn't HD, I was getting HD channels and the TV was displaying them at 480i. (By the way, I have Comcast Basic Cable. I just moved into an apartment for college and this is the first time without Digital Cable and the STB.) After a week with this TV, there was a sale going on at BB for a 32" HD LCD so I ended up taking it back and getting the LCD. Only problem with the LCD, no built-in tuner. I figured all I had to do was get a box from Comcast for an extra $5.99 a month to watch my Basic Cable or I could get a tuner. After searching I came upon the Samsung DTB-H260F and then that eventually brought me here. In my head I was thinking, "Well this is simple. I buy this Samsung tuner, plug my basic cable into it and I should get the same type of performance I had from the TV prior to this." Then I came here and started reading this forum thread about the H260. After reading about 4 or 5 pages I realized there was a lot more to it than what I had originally thought. Or is there? Either way, I'm writing this asking for help. So here it goes:

As mentioned above, I have Comcast Basic Cable. If I buy the H260 and plug my cable in, what can I expect? Will I have all the channels like I did on the other TV mentioned above. Will everything work okay? Do I need anything else? I remember reading about indoor HD antennas and other stuff but this isn't an OTA connection is it? I'm confused. Also, I read a lot of abbreviations on here and I don't know what any of them mean other than OTA, which I assume stands for Over The Air.

Anyways, like I said, I'm pretty new to all this, but I'm not a complete "newb". I would appreciate any help that you guys could provide me. Sorry this post is so long also. THANKS!

gadzby

12-02-06, 01:10 AM

i plugged in a live cable line (free comcast) into the back of my H260 and did a channel scan but was only able to view the channels without audio.
Something similar happened to me last night. I powered everything on as usual, and had video but no sound. Turned the H260 power off for 15s, back on again and ... voila! Video and audio working again! Looks like there's still a few remnant firmware bugs...

arxaw

12-02-06, 08:11 AM

... As mentioned above, I have Comcast Basic Cable. If I buy the H260 and plug my cable in, what can I expect? Will I have all the channels like I did on the other TV mentioned above.
The 260 should receive the digital channels your previous TV received, but not the analog (NTSC) channels.

Does the LCD TV have an analog (NTSC) tuner? Or is it strictly a monitor, with no tuner at all? If it's just a monitor, you'll lose the analog cable channels with this TV & STB combo. It sounds like that TV was on sale for a reason.

You might be better off to return the "sale" TV and find one that has built in NTSC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ntsc) (analog) / ATSC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATSC) (digital Over The Air) / QAM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAM_tuner) (digital cable) tuners.

mdchar

12-02-06, 10:01 AM

Hi,
I'm new to posting on the forum, but I've been reading the great posts for a short while. I'm in Dallas, TX and bougth this Samsung from Best Buy two weeks ago. It was their only unit and the box was damaged. Set it up and could not get audio through dig. out and the output would start off in color for 5-10 seconds and then fade to Black and White. Thought the unit was defective, returned it and bought one from Amazon.

I set up the new unit last night and now I get beautiful audio through the dig. out. However, I still have the same problem with color fading after 5-10 seconds. I'm using the 1080 HDMI output to my Sony KLV-S32A10. The picture quality and the sound is great, but I would prefer to watch in color :) Does anybody have any ideas?

arxaw

12-02-06, 10:11 AM

Have you used the HDMI connection with no problems on this TV before?

John Mason

12-02-06, 10:18 AM

Hi,
I set up the new unit last night and now I get beautiful audio through the dig. out. However, I still have the same problem with color fading after 5-10 seconds. I'm using the 1080 HDMI output to my Sony KLV-S32A10. The picture quality and the sound is great, but I would prefer to watch in color :) Does anybody have any ideas?
Try YPbPr out. -- John

dspm1

12-02-06, 10:51 AM

gadzby

12-02-06, 11:35 AM

0% here, too.

Rick0725

12-02-06, 11:59 AM

Finally got a chance to test this tuner in bad weather. Last night we had strong wind of 30+ MPH gust in the area, and all OTA channels got constant break-ups and became totally un-watchable. Some channels showed 100% signal strength, but dropped to 0% for a moment when wing was blowing.
other antenna designs can tame multipath.

A bowtie antenna receives signal from the rear. If your trees or other issues are in the rear, a yagi style antenna would work better since by design they receive little in that direction.

I have a wall of trees around me. The cm4228 is terrible in the wind where the hd8200p and 91xg are great.

Another factor is stability of the antenna system. if the system sways about during the wind gusts, it is best to stabilize it...shorten the mast etc.

mdchar

12-02-06, 12:01 PM

Try YPbPr out. -- John

I have used the HDMI input on my TV before without problems. The TV only has one input so I used the same cable that I've used successfully with my DVD player. The DVD player has always worked fine with this HDMI set-up and my problems only started with the Samsung STB.

John, per your suggestions I just tried the YPbPr out and the color is now stable. Does this mean there is something wrong with the HDMI out jack on my STB (this would be the second such defective unit in a row)? Thanks for your help.

OhioState87

12-02-06, 12:03 PM

The 260 should receive the digital channels your previous TV received, but not the analog (NTSC) channels.

Does the LCD TV have an analog (NTSC) tuner? Or is it strictly a monitor, with no tuner at all? If it's just a monitor, you'll lose the analog cable channels with this TV & STB combo. It sounds like that TV was on sale for a reason.

You might be better off to return the "sale" TV and find one that has built in.

First off, let me just say thanks for actually reading my post and for replying. I know it was long lol. Anyway. The TV is a Monitor (no NTSC tuner). I have no doubt that's why the TV was cheap. I looked at other TV's with the same price and same size (32" LCD) and the only ones there are, are a Westinghouse, Insignia and an HP. The picture on the Toshiba is awesome and I've heard nothing but good things about it. I don't think I'd want to take it back for one of those other 3. I mostly use it for the Xbox 360 anyway.

So by not receiving the analog channels, I'd pretty be receiving hardly any channels? There's no way I can get both or there's no tuner that is both an ATSC and NTSC? Obviously I could get the box from Comcast, but I wanted the free HD & digital channels. I probably wouldn't receive enough of those though with the H260 to justify the price, right?

Again, thanks!

arxaw

12-02-06, 12:15 PM

Use the NTSC tuner in a VHS VCR and split the cable coax to the sammy and the VCR.

OhioState87

12-02-06, 06:24 PM

Use the NTSC tuner in a VHS VCR and split the cable coax to the sammy and the VCR.

Don't have a VCR so anything besides that? I'm not really worried about analog channels but what I don't know is what kind of and how many digital channels are there?

Davinleeds

12-02-06, 09:33 PM

Preliminary testing of 91xg connected to Sam h260. My difficult channels: 43,44,28 were received by cm4228 with 1 or2 two signal bars and dropouts. With 91xg, 5 bars. Both used cm 7775 preamp. No break ups on 91. More later. PS; still receiving 19 from rear of 91 at 60+ miles. Topography is everything, 91 is very promising.

pkeegan

12-02-06, 09:36 PM

I have used the HDMI input on my TV before without problems. The TV only has one input so I used the same cable that I've used successfully with my DVD player. The DVD player has always worked fine with this HDMI set-up and my problems only started with the Samsung STB.

John, per your suggestions I just tried the YPbPr out and the color is now stable. Does this mean there is something wrong with the HDMI out jack on my STB (this would be the second such defective unit in a row)? Thanks for your help.

Unfortunately HDMI has not been well implementated by the consumer electronics companies. It's been a hit or miss situation. Mostly the reports I've read deal with audio dropouts. Your TV may not be compatible with the the Samsung HDMI implementation and I wouldn't hold my breath for a fix from either. If HDMI is important I would return it and try it at least one more time as I haven't read any
reports on the color issue and the STB may be bad. I've used the Samsung SIR-T451's component out as well as its DVI out. I would be hard pressed to notice any difference. I did use good component cables. Since I have more DVI & HDMI equipment and a HDMI switcher via a video processor I have cabled everything DVI/HDMI.
my 2 cents.

lejudew

12-02-06, 10:40 PM

I've had my Samsung DTB-H260F for about two weeks now feeding OTA signals to the HDMI input of my Westy 42". So far I can report I have experienced no problems using this input (such as flashing, etc.). Once the box locks on a signal, it is extremely stable, but does not find as many signals as my old Sylvania 3000Z does. I should note that I am located in southeastern Michigan, with my major towers being 30+ miles (Toledo) and 50+ miles (Detroit) away. I have noticed that it is possible to lock up the Samsung if rapid and frequent channel changes are done, as I was doing when constantly switching inputs and channels while comparing the two STB's. This was easily overcome by re-starting the box. As mentioned in earlier posts, the sound output is very low compared to the Sylvania, but can be overcome if the volume is set to max on the box and using the Westy's volume control for veiwing programs. I intend to keep the unit, though I wish it had greater sensitivity to weker channels.

dspm1

12-02-06, 10:41 PM

other antenna designs can tame multipath.

A bowtie antenna receives signal from the rear. If your trees or other issues are in the rear, a yagi style antenna would work better since by design they receive little in that direction.

I have a wall of trees around me. The cm4228 is terrible in the wind where the hd8200p and 91xg are great.

Another factor is stability of the antenna system. if the system sways about during the wind gusts, it is best to stabilize it...shorten the mast etc.

thanks!

dspm1

12-02-06, 11:01 PM

First off, let me just say thanks for actually reading my post and for replying. I know it was long lol. Anyway. The TV is a Monitor (no NTSC tuner). I have no doubt that's why the TV was cheap. I looked at other TV's with the same price and same size (32" LCD) and the only ones there are, are a Westinghouse, Insignia and an HP. The picture on the Toshiba is awesome and I've heard nothing but good things about it. I don't think I'd want to take it back for one of those other 3. I mostly use it for the Xbox 360 anyway.

So by not receiving the analog channels, I'd pretty be receiving hardly any channels? There's no way I can get both or there's no tuner that is both an ATSC and NTSC? Obviously I could get the box from Comcast, but I wanted the free HD & digital channels. I probably wouldn't receive enough of those though with the H260 to justify the price, right?

Again, thanks!
H260 can do both OTA (Over The Air) and clear QAM. You can check out antenna web site to find out how far you live from the transmitters and what kind of antenna you need to receive free OTA signals. Or, since you already have comcast basic, H260 should be able to pick up unscrambled QAM signals from cable as well. Either way, you will only get local broadcasting channels, unless your comcast is generous enough to include some premium channels unscrambled. Anyway, better try it before the big day Jan 8!

OhioState87

12-03-06, 01:21 AM

H260 can do both OTA (Over The Air) and clear QAM. You can check out antenna web site to find out how far you live from the transmitters and what kind of antenna you need to receive free OTA signals. Or, since you already have comcast basic, H260 should be able to pick up unscrambled QAM signals from cable as well. Either way, you will only get local broadcasting channels, unless your comcast is generous enough to include some premium channels unscrambled. Anyway, better try it before the big day Jan 8!

Yes, I definitely will be trying it before Jan. 8! :cool: That TV I had before this one that had the built in ATSC and NTSC picked up Fox HD and that's the channel the game will be played on so I like to think I'd be fine. I also got ABC HD and NBC HD plus some others I didn't know and a lot of Music Choice channels. I even got that Howard Stern channel one day. The new one.

Anyway, here is the info from antennaweb. I figured I'd show you because you'd know more of what it means than me.

red - vhf WTOV 9 NBC STEUBENVILLE OH 261° 22.9 9
red - vhf WPXI 11 NBC PITTSBURGH PA 91° 10.7 11
red - vhf KDKA 2 CBS PITTSBURGH PA 79° 10.4 2
* blue - uhf KDKA-DT 2.1 CBS PITTSBURGH PA 79° 10.4 25
blue - uhf WWBP-LP 25 BOX FREEDOM PA 1° 17.3 25
blue - vhf WQED 13 PBS PITTSBURGH PA 98° 12.7 13
blue - uhf WQEX 16 HSN PITTSBURGH PA 98° 12.7 16
blue - vhf WTAE 4 ABC PITTSBURGH PA 126° 24.0 4
blue - uhf WKBN 27 CBS YOUNGSTOWN OH 340° 48.2 27
blue - uhf W66BQ 66 IND BEAVER PA 351° 19.8 66
blue - uhf WNEO 45 PBS ALLIANCE OH 319° 48.8 45
blue - uhf WPGH 53 FOX PITTSBURGH PA 80° 11.2 53
* violet - uhf WPGH-DT 53.1 FOX PITTSBURGH PA 80° 11.2 43
* violet - uhf WTOV-DT 9.1 NBC STEUBENVILLE OH 261° 22.9 57
violet - vhf WTRF 7 CBS WHEELING WV 236° 39.1 7
* violet - uhf WPMY-DT 42.1 MNT PITTSBURGH PA 80° 11.2 42
* violet - uhf WPXI-DT 11.1 NBC PITTSBURGH PA 91° 10.7 48
* violet - uhf WKBN-DT 27.1 CBS YOUNGSTOWN OH 340° 48.2 41
violet - uhf WPCB 40 FMN GREENSBURG PA 107° 22.6 40

Also, one more question. Since the analog shutdown is in a couple of years, could I consider the H260 to be future proof? In that I mean, right now I'm concerned because I won't be receiving a lot of channels because I can't pick up analog with the H260. BUT, when the shutdown happens, everything moves to digital right? So wouldn't I end up being able to receive all channels through the H260 when that happens?

tbielowicz

12-03-06, 01:47 AM

Rammitinski

12-03-06, 02:14 AM

You'll have to split the signal.

tbielowicz

12-03-06, 02:52 AM

That's what I thought. I have heard rumors of tuners with NTSC/ATSC/ClearQAM capabilities coming soon. Any truth to that?

jfklennon

12-03-06, 09:57 AM

I've found that with each different STB I try , it's best that you re-position your antenna before making judgements on whether its better at fringe channel reception or not. Some boxes required a big adjustment (several degrees) to lock on weaker stations. :)

Skeptic Tank

12-03-06, 12:23 PM

I have a HD Ready LCD (NTSC Tuner built-in). I planned on running the Samsung through it since I have basic analog cable to receive the clear QAM channels.

Will I still receive my NTSC channels through the Samsung even though my TV has the NSTC tuner or do I need to split the signal?

.

You can connect your cable company cable to the antenna-in on the Samsung. Then connect the antenna-out of the Samsung to the antenna-in of the HD Ready LCD. That will get you your NTSC basic analog cable stations.

Connect the HDMI-out or the Component-outs on the Samsung to the corresponding input on the HD Ready LCD. That gets the clear QAM channels to your LCD. As long as you're only connecting to the cable company cable and not an OTA antenna, you should be OK.

Davinleeds

12-03-06, 02:49 PM

vstone

12-03-06, 03:41 PM

If you only had cable hooked up (not an antenna), then your TV probably didn't get anything OTA and therefore you digital cable signals would have been picked up via a QAM (digital cable) tuner built into the TV. BB & CC sales folk generally don't know a lot about this since there is generally no cable company signal coming into the store. Sometimes there is, but no way to hook up a given TV to it to test it.

If you have the basic tier, it should pick up your local Stations HD signals over the cable. If you only have broadcast basic (usually only local analog ststions + shopping channels + (maybe) ESPN), the filter on your signal will likely prevent getting the digital cable signals. Since apparenly you got them before you should get them again.

While others disagree, there is some evidence of problems in the QAM tuner world, so I wouldn't bet on anything,

I also believe that there are problems with the proper set of cable company transmissions, wich may or may not affect you.

bmc1818

12-03-06, 05:20 PM

I have a sony hd capable tv and bought the h260f to use as a tuner. I have cable and it scans through and pics up alot of stations but they seem to skip. What do I need to do to fix this. I do not havd the hd package and only want to recieve the basic stations with this tuner like abc cbs nbc....... Why is it skipping and what do i use to auto programs the channels STD HRC or IRC? I need help thanks.

mikemikeb

12-03-06, 11:35 PM

OhioState87, the Samsung will pick up all OTA digital programming after shut-off.

Personally, I suggest that you call Comcast and see if they can get HD service into your apartment. To be honest, it's the simplest way to get HD service, period. The Comcast box will be able to handle all scrambled digital channels, and will include channels you can't get over the air, like Discovery HD Theater, and ESPN-HD. Have the antenna/Sammy as a backup in case the cable goes out.

OhioState87

12-03-06, 11:52 PM

Rammitinski

12-04-06, 01:37 AM

You can connect your cable company cable to the antenna-in on the Samsung. Then connect the antenna-out of the Samsung to the antenna-in of the HD Ready LCD. That will get you your NTSC basic analog cable stations.

Connect the HDMI-out or the Component-outs on the Samsung to the corresponding input on the HD Ready LCD. That gets the clear QAM channels to your LCD. As long as you're only connecting to the cable company cable and not an OTA antenna, you should be OK.I was not aware that the Samsung had pass-through RF capabilities.

Most of the standalone tuners I've been familiar with didn't even have an RF out.

plumeria

12-04-06, 02:24 AM

I was not aware that the Samsung had pass-through RF capabilities.

Most of the standalone tuners I've been familiar with didn't even have an RF out.
It is actually quite common in various tuners I have looked at over the years. As an example my LG 42000A has one.

peter

keeper

12-04-06, 08:24 AM

At this time I comparing the ota tuner in the Samsung to my three other tuners that I have laying around. In watching about 7 hours of football yesterday I can say that the tuner in the Samsung is very good. I need a few more days to make sure that atmospheric conditions didn't influence yesterdays result. In about 12 hours total of ota viewing I of yet had one breakup. In watching ota on my dish211 yesterday I had about 7 breakups in an hour. Most of my ota stations are 50 plus miles away. More to come.

Olevia37HD

12-04-06, 09:59 AM

I was not aware that the Samsung had pass-through RF capabilities.

Most of the standalone tuners I've been familiar with didn't even have an RF out.Like plumeria said, I also find it quite common.
Same on the LG LST-3510A. It's not an RF out but a RF pass thru.

DonB2

12-04-06, 02:57 PM

bmc1818 ,

What do you mean by skipping?

-DonB2

DonB2

12-04-06, 03:06 PM

"That's what I thought. I have heard rumors of tuners with NTSC/ATSC/ClearQAM capabilities coming soon. Any truth to that? "

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/LGline2007.html

This LG DR787T has ATSC/NTSC/QAM reception

I have been waiting to see more on this unit as this is what I have been looking for.

It records ATSC HD to DVD by downconverting and than upconverts when it plays the DVD back.

It has ATSC and NTSC.

It should have the latest GEN ATSC chip so should handle multipath.

-----------------------

The only issue is they have not started selling it yet and also I hope it does not cost too much.

-DonB2

Olevia37HD

12-04-06, 03:57 PM

"That's what I thought. I have heard rumors of tuners with NTSC/ATSC/ClearQAM capabilities coming soon. Any truth to that? "

-----------------------

The only issue is they have not started selling it yet and also I hope it does not cost too much.

-DonB2
If they they called this one their new low-cost over-the-air ATSC tuner, I hate to see what that cost.

DonB2

12-04-06, 04:15 PM

Olevia37HD,

I hear you, it will probably be $400.00 if it is a Penny. But of course if I take back the Samsung which cost me $200.00........ :) :o

-DonB2

OhioState87

12-04-06, 05:15 PM

So these LG's coming out are the only STB's with both ATSC and NTSC tuning? Sucks that they having extras like DVD playback and recording because that will raise the price.

Anyway, back to the H260, am I correct in saying that when the analog shutdown happens, the H260 will be able to receive all channels becasue in fact, all channels will become digital?

Rammitinski

12-04-06, 05:40 PM

So these LG's coming out are the only STB's with both ATSC and NTSC tuning? Sucks that they having extras like DVD playback and recording because that will raise the price.Actually, there are tons of people licking their chops over in the DVD Recorder threads who can't wait for something like that to be released :cool: .

OhioState87

12-04-06, 06:00 PM

Actually, there are tons of people licking their chops over in the DVD Recorder threads who can't wait for something like that to be released :cool: .

I bet there's people who want nothing more than a tuner. Reason? Low price. I never said that extra stuff wasn't good, but for me, it's something I don't need and does nothing for me but cost me more.

And here's my question again.

Am I correct in saying that when the analog shutdown happens, the H260 will be able to receive all channels becasue in fact, all channels will become digital?

moxie1617

12-04-06, 06:11 PM

And here's my question again.

Am I correct in saying that when the analog shutdown happens, the H260 will be able to receive all channels becasue in fact, all channels will become digital?
What mikemikeb said on the previous page. YES

OhioState87

12-04-06, 07:57 PM

What mikemikeb said on the previous page. YES

I didn't notice. Sorry about that.

keeper

12-05-06, 08:42 AM

Anyone else having issues with the remote? It has very little range. Is it my box or other experiencing the same issue.

DougRuss

12-05-06, 09:02 AM

Anyone else having issues with the remote? It has very little range. Is it my box or other experiencing the same issue.

I was having the same problems. Sometimes I'd have to hit the button twice before it sends a signal. I tried replacing the Batteries with some better quality ones,didn't really Help.

I went ahead and just Transfered the functions to my MX-500 Universal Remote, works great now !

arxaw

12-05-06, 09:48 AM

... Am I correct in saying that when the analog shutdown happens, the H260 will be able to receive all channels becasue in fact, all channels will become digital?All OTA Broadcast channels in the US received with an antenna will become digital. Analog OTA Broadcasts received with an antenna will cease in Feb '09.

The forced analog shutdown has no affect on cable companies. They may continue to offer analog cable service. Locals may be converted to analog for subscribers w/o digital tuners or cable boxes.

DonB2

12-05-06, 10:42 AM

OhioState87 ,

There may be other STB's that will have ATSC/NTSC tuners but I am just not aware of the maunufactures.

In regards to what stations will be available after the analog signals go away- I do not know about Cable but for over the air ATSC some will stay where that are frequency wise and some may move.

What any cable company will provide as ATSC in their basic tier is up for grabs.

The way I understand it the frequencies that are freed up will be used for emergency fire first responder frequencies. The may or may not be true, may be hipe just to sell the public on it and when it is all said and done all the freed up frequencies will be sold at profit for commercial use , I just don't know.

Any way supposedly we will not lose frequency locations for additionaly ATSC channels because the ATSC channels can be squeezed closer together that analog NTSC channels - at least this is what I have read don't hold me to it.

So if say they were 5 NTSC channels now and 5 ATSC channels in any given broadcast area with say 5 available frequencies and than after the analog goes away there will still be the capability for 15 different ATSC frequency channels. This is just a wag on numbers as I have not done the math on the frequency bandwidth available.

"The forced analog shutdown has no affect on cable companies. " - Wow never thought about this but I agree it is true. I guess the only thing that would get a small cable company to convert to digital would be the loss of customers.

-DonB2

DonB2

12-05-06, 10:49 AM

Does anyone know how Samsung came up with DTB-H260 for the model number of this new set top box? It sure is different than their old "SIR" naming convention.

I have notice that sometimes I have to press buttons on the remote more than once especially when attempting to enter a channel number off of the key pad.

I do like the TV channel option. It is very easy to press TV channel on the remote and than select thru the digital channels available.

Arxaw,
One more thing the ATSC tuner software appears to change over time. Some of the earlier Samsung units go into reboot because they just are not compatible with the newer info being broadcast to them. Of course a programable USB port helps overcome this.

-DonB2

Olevia37HD

12-05-06, 12:18 PM

Rammitinski

12-05-06, 02:22 PM

Sure, it'd be nice and more convienient to have more standalone tuners coming out with both analog and digital. At this point, I don't see it though. Not OTA-only ones, anyway.

But, where there's a will, there's a way. You could always split the signal to either your set's NTSC tuner, or one in a VCR or DVD recorder. It's not perfect, but it's a solution.

DonB2

12-05-06, 03:32 PM

I guess what gets me is the legacy info you get at some Televison station sites concerning the switch to Digital. In general they state that people still watching tv with an analog 4:3 tv will be supplied a cost effective - possibly goverment subsidized STB ATSC tuner that will work with their 4:3 tvs. Or in the meanwhile you can go to high end electronic stores and purchase an ATSC STB tuner.

Well all this probably made since as little as a year ago. But now it seems there are very few STB's for sale anywhere without a subscription to a Sat provider.

I don't even see a STB available at Walmart any more and they use to sell that USDTV tuner for around $200.00.

It appears that TV's are getting integrated tuners at a very fast rate and anyone left watching a Non HD compliant TV is not going to have a lot of options.

I think it is somewhere around 8 percent of USA population who subscribe to OTA NTSC only. Not a very large chunk of people to sell standalone STB's to.

So I guess in some respects I consider myself lucky that Samsung has even built this latest generation STB. I almost wonder if it is a copy of one they have supplied to a cable or Sat Provider in order to help cover the development costs.

-Don B2

m_vanmeter

12-05-06, 04:05 PM

analog TV will be around until early 2009.......in the electronics world that is a heck of a long time. Undoubtedly there will be a $50 to $75 ATSC set top box available by then, there are $50 ATSC tuners for personal computers now, but the computer supplies all the decoding horsepower. The market and the government don't really care about early adaptors, their attitude is " if you want ATSC digital TV now, pay for it".

The whole purpose for this thread is that Samsung has seen the niche market for a set top box and is supplying one....the DTB-H260F for $180. TiVo will be supplying a DVR with ATSC tuner, but you will have to pay for it (dearly !). In three years the entire market will be different, and all the early adaptors will have paid for the R&D.

sgtjim

12-05-06, 04:20 PM

Some background. I have an old Mitsubishi 65" CRT RP set with one component input.
Several years ago I got a Dish 6000 for both OTA and satellite reception and have also had Comcast cable with a 6412 STB. I now only subscribe to the Expanded Plus service with no Premium movie packages. For the last 2 years I have been using a CM4228 Antenna with rotor. I live in Charles Co, Md (Waldorf) and with the CM4228 and the Dish 6000, I was able to get all of the DC and Baltimore channels OTA by turning the
rotor. I am 30 miles from DC and 55 miles from Baltimore. DC is about due north and Baltimore is about at NNE. Over the past year the Baltimore channels slowly disappeared with only an occasional lock on channel 13.1 As the Dish 6000 was a 1st generation set , I thought it was failing as I had dropped DISH NETWORK about the time they went to MPEG4. I only needed to maintain a satellite signal for the OTA to work. After reading this thread, I decided to buy the new Samsung. As soon as I scanned for OTA stations, I received 34 digital channels between DC and Balt. with one CM4228 pointed at 20 degrees . I then scanned Comcast cable and found 300 QAM channels. Of course only about 35 channels are in the clear. These include all of the DC and BALT OTA digital channels. The QAM tuner about duplicates the OTA reception.
Faced with having to plug and unplug the OTA and Cable inputs and after finding that a splitter used backwards as a combiner would not work (OTA) I got an A/B switch and it works perfectly as long as you press the Antenna button on the Samsung remote. With this setup and the switch set to cable and an RF connection from the Samsung STB Antenna Out to an RF input on the Mitsu allows the analog cable channels to pass thru. When you go to OTA the passthru only allows several channels to get thru which are near the digital channels on the cable. The only thing I would need to allow me to be a couch potato would be an A/B switch with a remote. But as my component switcher is not remote capable, I change them both at the same time. In addition I route the Samsung SVIDEO out to another input and in some cases the SVIDEO looks as good as the Digital. The nice thing is that all outputs are active so I can watch HD CABLE and HD OTA in SD at the same time. Great for football games on cable in DC and different games in Balt OTA. Of course I can do the same thing with Cable HD STB and Samsang QAM. The difference between the 1st generation 6000 and the Samsung is amazing. I would be curious as how well a Silver Sensor indoor would do in my case. I use the optical DD output except for the SVIDEO and composite inputs which are accompaneid by stereo inputs. I have noticed one anonmaly where my neighbor has a QAM tuner in a Phillips HDTV and I use the QAM in the Samsung. We both subscribe to the same cable package. He can receive the MC channels and I cannot. Looking for an explanation for that. All in all I am extremely pleased with the Samsung STB.

DonB2

12-05-06, 04:42 PM

Another thing I like about the DTB-H260F is how nicely it switched from one channel or multicast channel with the up/down channel button. Both my old Sir T 451 and also my built in Pioneer ATSC tuners are very clumsy at switching channels hanging for long periods of time. The DTB-H260F on the other hand appeard to surf thru channels as quickly as an analog cable surf.

m_vanmeter,

I just want to see the DTB-H260F available in more stores nationwide. I could not even find one in a local Circuit City here in Raleigh, NC. "They did not even know what I was talking about." I had to stumble into one 600 miles away in Binghamtom, NY. over Thanksgiving.

From other posts I have read on this forum, locating one of these Niche market units can be challenging.

-DonB2

arxaw

12-05-06, 06:10 PM

...I just want to see the DTB-H260F available in more stores nationwide. I could not even find one in a local Circuit City here in Raleigh, NC.Thats' because they'd rather sell something with higher profit margin like:
1. A complete digital TV with integrated tuner.
2. A satellite receiver w/ OTA tuner or a subscription to digital cable.

jakesnakemd

12-05-06, 06:39 PM

Well I followed the suggestion about connecting the "red" component lead to the video in plug on the tv and was able to get a black & white image (bearly readable) and was able to run the auto scan and wow. Got about 15 channels (actually more if I aim my indoor amp antenna differently) and all in full digital and stereo sound. Works great as far as picture and sound, but as was already mentioned, no menus, etc. Think I'll keep it (can always just sell it on Ebay), since at this point they're like hen's teeth to find. Can use it later if I just get an HD monitor (most are now HD ready though), which are cheaper.

Is there such a thing as a component to S-video cable? I won't hold my breath though.

Should be nice for anyone with at least component hookups. Are there other tuners that will work with just S-video or composite plugs?

Thanks for the help.

Davinleeds

12-05-06, 07:37 PM

I am getting "happier" with this STB. Receiving " not earlier receivable" stations-could be the weather. Not part of 260 menus but happening over time. Sound is zero. The sound level has to be increased to max. Read other threads about the final STB,this isn't it. With it's timer function, I wish I could install a hard drive. The 91 xg is proving itself.

arxaw

12-05-06, 09:05 PM

...my neighbor has a QAM tuner in a Phillips HDTV and I use the QAM in the Samsung. We both subscribe to the same cable package. He can receive the MC channels and I cannot. Looking for an explanation for that.The Philips and the Samsung are both QAM but may not tune exactly the same channel ranges. And the MC channels are in a band your Samsung can't tune to.

Davinleeds

12-05-06, 09:13 PM

Keeper; Remote directional, have to make effort.

arxaw

12-05-06, 09:17 PM

This is not the first Samsung with "weak" IR remote problems. Previous HD receivers made bye Sammy for DirecTV suffered from the same problem.

keeper

12-06-06, 08:19 AM

Keeper; Remote directional, have to make effort.

I hate effort when related to HT. :)

wojtek

12-06-06, 09:50 AM

Can this Sammy stretch the 4:3 material?

Thx

DougRuss

12-06-06, 09:53 AM

Can this Sammy stretch the 4:3 material?

Thx
Yes !

DonB2

12-06-06, 11:35 AM

DonB2

12-06-06, 11:38 AM

"Can this Sammy stretch the 4:3 material?"

One thing I like is that when I am watching a 4:3 feed on a HD channel and the station sticks the bars on each side I can Zoom the Samsung and get rid of the vertical bars. I can't do this with Pioneer. Now maybe the Zoom looses some of the image but I still like it better than looking at vertical bars.

-DonB2

oryan_dunn

12-06-06, 12:07 PM

jakesnakemd ,

Interesting that the red lead produces a fuzzy display on your tv. Did you switch to 480 on the back of the Samsung?

"as was already mentioned, no menus, etc"

So you are still not getting menus even when using the Red lead off of the component?

-DonB2

To use a component connection into a composite plug, you need to have the box set on 480i and use the GREEN wire. The blue sends the blue difference signal and the red sends the red difference signal. The green has the black&white picture (Luminance signal).

wojtek

12-06-06, 12:29 PM

DonB2

12-06-06, 12:39 PM

oryan_dunn ,

Thanks for the input on jakesnakemd's Fuzzy red issue.

-DonB2

Rick_R

12-06-06, 01:38 PM

I bet there's people who want nothing more than a tuner. Reason? Low price. I never said that extra stuff wasn't good, but for me, it's something I don't need and does nothing for me but cost me more.

And here's my question again.

Am I correct in saying that when the analog shutdown happens, the H260 will be able to receive all channels becasue in fact, all channels will become digital?
Actually in most areas a digital tuner will get all channels because by law all stations are required to have digital channels. Here in L.A. every single channel has a digital counterpart. A few years ago my Dish 6000 NTSC tuner failed and Dish would send me a new tuner card for the $6 shipping but I didn't bother because it got me nothing extra.

Rick R

DonB2

12-06-06, 02:42 PM

Rick_R,

Does that apply also to the ATSC multicast side channels that some broadcast stations employ?

DonB2

DonB2

12-06-06, 02:47 PM

I was looking at the price of the previous generation SAMSUNG SIR T451 on EBAY. I see some "buy it now" prices around $200.00. Good for the seller not so good for the uninformed buyer.

-DonB2

Olevia37HD

12-06-06, 03:03 PM

I was looking at the price of the previous generation SAMSUNG SIR T451 on EBAY. I see some "buy it now" prices around $200.00. Good for the seller not so good for the uninformed buyer.

-DonB2
Wow, I got my LG LST-3510A from ebay "buy it now" for only $119.99.

wojtek

12-06-06, 03:19 PM

DjohnsonCB

12-06-06, 03:56 PM

I finally got my Samsung working perfectly. I use it with a Sony KLV-S19A10 TV and an RCA ANT1250 45db indoor antenna, and it pulls in 15 OTA channels with nearly no problem.

Only one problem: I tried the HDMI setting with an HDMI cable I bought from an online dealer for around 10 bucks, and the color fades to black and white after about 45 seconds after turning on the Samsung, plus there is a bit of flagging. I tried switching to component cables and audio cables, and after switching off the HDMI setting, it works fine.

I've heard both sides of the argument on expensive vs. lower-priced cables. Would a pricier HDMI cable help me here?

DonB2

12-06-06, 05:29 PM

DjohnsonCB ,

You could always buy a pricier one and take it back if you don't see an improvement.

-DonB2

keeper

12-06-06, 06:10 PM

After three more days of testing ota I still have not had one dropout. I have pretty much line of sight to the transmitters. On a slight hill which I am sure helps a lot. I have owned 5 hd ota tuners. Samsung 151 and 160, hdtivo,rca, and now the dish 211 that I have used with poor results since installing E* in July. With the 211 I had only one channel out of 8 that was rock solid all the time. I am aiming at two cities Balt. which is 55+ miles away and Harrisburg which is 30 miles away. I purchased this unit for QAM because of ota dropouts but decided to test the ota. The ota tuner is the best that I have used so far. It seems once it locks on a channel it stays locked. I don't think I have much multipath so I'm not sure how it handles that. I keep on switching stbs. Once one of the others start to breakup I switch the cable to the Samsung and the signal is solid. My lowest measured strength is 6 bars with everything else 8-10. I use a cm4228 and cm 7777 pre amp. I have noticed that this stb doesn't lock on real weak signals. I have several that show up at night on my other stbs. Their signal is poor and you really can't watch the channel but it does display a picture. The Samsung has not locked these stations yet. I don't care as they would be unwatchable anyway. Too far away. This stb wouldn't be for anyone that likes to do the Dxing thing. So far this stb has far exceeded my expectations. To be able to watch all of my ota stations without breakups is awesome. For me the ota tuner is the real deal. Anyone else experiencing major improvement over an older ota tuner?

AHROBERTS

12-06-06, 08:58 PM

Would love to buy one of these! If only I knew of some place that had them. :mad: Any ideas???

STEELERSRULE

12-06-06, 09:17 PM

Both Best Buy and Circuit CIty sell them for $180+tax respectively.

But they both appear to not have them in stock. Although Best Buy seems to have them on backorder, which could mean 2 weeks of waiting, or 2-3 months of waiting.

You could try to find an Open Box Samsung 451 at either one of those stores. I am pretty sure that one does CLEAR QAM as well. Right? It says in the manual that the 451 can receive "8VSB signals sent by the cable company for QAM reception", but I don't know if that it can decifer 64QAM or 256QAM like the LG LST-4200A can. Plus other LG's.

And if you do go the Open Box route, try Circuit City first as they LOWER the price on their Open Box stuff, unlike BEst Buy anymore.

It is not even worth it at Best Buy for Open Box buy's since they changed their policies and now offer Gift Cards for a FUTURE purchase, and keep the Open Box at the regular price.

Actually totally not wort it IMHO, but other opinions may vary.

I would try for the Open Box buy of the Samsung T451 at Circuit City first because they still offer the discount taken out of the price first, and not the GIFT CARD CRAP that Best Buy now does.

Way to ruin a good thing NITWITS(Worst Buy)!

Davinleeds

12-06-06, 09:45 PM

Guys:

Right now I have a Zenith HDV-420 STB connected via Component to my TH-50PHD8UK Panasonic plasma.

I am getting an HDMI blade for the plasma, so I'm thinking, what the heck, would an STB with an HDMI output such as the 260 give me a better picture?

Whaddya think?
No plasma here, but I had the Zenith and the Samsung is more sensitive/locks on better. Picture the same. If you have no reception problems? But my Zenith had no program guide. But then I refer to Titan.

Davinleeds

12-06-06, 09:55 PM

wojtek

12-07-06, 10:02 AM

No plasma here, but I had the Zenith and the Samsung is more sensitive/locks on better. Picture the same. If you have no reception problems? But my Zenith had no program guide. But then I refer to Titan.

Is the OTA pic over HDMI better than over Component?

arxaw

12-07-06, 10:13 AM

Actually in most areas a digital tuner will get all channels because by law all stations are required to have digital channels. Here in L.A. every single channel has a digital counterpart....Many smaller markets still have low power DTV stations. I'm talking big 4 networks.

In our DMA, the only full power big 4 network digital is NBC. ABC, CBS & FOX are still very low power. And none of our LPTV/translator stations have begun OTA DTV. They are all waiting to flash cut from analog to digital sometime around 2009.

Fortunately, I can receive digitals from another DMA using a tower antenna and preamp. But for many it's still an NTSC world...

Rick_R

12-07-06, 01:25 PM

Many smaller markets still have low power DTV stations. I'm talking big 4 networks.

In our DMA, the only full power big 4 network digital is NBC. ABC, CBS & FOX are still very low power. And none of our LPTV/translator stations have begun OTA DTV. They are all waiting to flash cut from analog to digital sometime around 2009.

Fortunately, I can receive digitals from another DMA using a tower antenna and preamp. But for many it's still an NTSC world...
That is why I said MOST. Most big markets are all digital. The notable exception to this is Denver which has its digitals antennas held up in court.
Rick_R,

Does that apply also to the ATSC multicast side channels that some broadcast stations employ?

DonB2
I don't understand the question. Many digital stations have extra digital channels using the subchannels. However, the analog channels are broadcast on the digital channels; there are just extra digital subchannels.

Rick R

Dmon4u

12-07-06, 01:47 PM

Would love to buy one of these! If only I knew of some place that had them. :mad: Any ideas???

Bestbuy just changed to "In store only" - you can't even check local inventory anymore.

ABT (online) - It's the only reputable place "I" could find with it in stock, currently.

DonB2

12-07-06, 03:16 PM

"Quote:
Originally Posted by DonB2
Rick_R,

Does that apply also to the ATSC multicast side channels that some broadcast stations employ?

DonB2

I don't understand the question. Many digital stations have extra digital channels using the subchannels. However, the analog channels are broadcast on the digital channels; there are just extra digital subchannels.

Rick R "

WHat I have been told but can't verify as I don't have Sat or TWC is that Sat and TWC may be required to supply a digital version of the local major channels such as ABC, NBC,CBS, FOX, and PBS but they do not have to include the additional multicast channels that these broadcast ATSC stations also supply.

For example our local PBS has the main channel 4.1 which is a dupe of the normal analog NTSC channel and in addition OTA on ATSC they also supply an HD feed 4-2 as well as a few additional digital feeds 4-3 Kids, and 4-4 education if my memory serves me. The 4-3 and 4-4 may or may not be picked up by Dish , Direct , or your local digital cable service provider.

-DonB2

arxaw

12-07-06, 07:08 PM

That is why I said MOST. Most big markets are all digital....Actually, you said: "by law all stations are required to have digital channels."

I just trying to clarify that although it may be the law, there still are a lot of stations across the country that are not on the air yet. And many that are, are only low power, and can't actually be received unless one lives next door to the xmtr.

jtbell

12-07-06, 07:21 PM

Bestbuy just changed to "In store only" - you can't even check local inventory anymore.

Circuit City has it on their web site and in some of their stores. It recently turned up in the Greenville / Spartanburg SC area (first noticed it last night). In fact, I bought one this afternoon at a CC in Greenville and hooked it up a couple of hours ago. Seems to work OK so far, bit I haven't had a chance to check it carefully on my "problematic" stations to see if it's a major improvement for me.

Davinleeds

12-07-06, 07:23 PM

Com'on. those are the first to check.

TommyK

12-07-06, 07:57 PM

...Anyone else experiencing major improvement over an older ota tuner?Definitely, reception with my H260F tuners (I picked up 2 of them about 6 weeks ago) has been a startling improvement over what my 3 year old Zenith STB and an old Samsung T-151 could do.

I have no LOS to the digital transmitters here with many walls and large buildings to work around, not to mention drastic multipath issues. The H260F handles all of this very well on all the digital channels here. Using either the Square Shooter or the Silver Sensor indoor antenna, the STB has strong, steady performance.

Davinleeds

12-07-06, 08:20 PM

Is the OTA pic over HDMI better than over Component?
Same

foxeng

12-07-06, 08:26 PM

Is the OTA pic over HDMI better than over Component?

HDMI is a little crisper than component.

Davinleeds

12-07-06, 08:30 PM

HDMI is a little crisper than component.
Lend me your display.

Davinleeds

12-07-06, 08:32 PM

Will we see more display in the Fresarius? (sp)

TommyK

12-07-06, 08:38 PM

...Most big markets are all digital. The notable exception to this is Denver which has its digitals antennas held up in court.FWIW, Denver is all digital and has been for a number of years. Our problem is that only two of our stations (the Fox and the CW) are transmitting at respectable power levels.

The rest (CBS, ABC, NBC, PBS & MNTV) are transmitting at very sad, pathetic power levels due to the court problems you mentioned. It can take some effort to tune these signals in, but they are available. This new Samsung tuner has made my life considerably easier in this regard.

Interestingly, all of the stations here, by and large, are pretty good about making sure their HD content airs properly, even if it is only on their low-power transmitters..

foxeng

12-08-06, 07:43 AM

Lend me your display.

I am using a direct view CRT (Sony KV-34 XBR800) so maybe that is the difference? I have had 4 different STB's connected to this same TV over the last 4 years and while component always looks great, the digital outputs, first HDCP/DVI then HDMI have all looked a tad bit sharper and that is because you don't have the analog noise in the component signal.

windycitystyle

12-08-06, 08:33 AM

has anyone had this problem?

my samsung has been working perfect for the first 2 months. all of a sudden it dropped! my projector started searching for the samsung which is connected via hdmi. it could not locate it. i had to disconnect the box and reconnect it. the projector started searching and found it. i started to do an ota channel search, but when it got to channel 36 it dropped again! my projector started doing the search again but could not locate it! i checked the hdmi connection and component connection but found no problems with the projector or cables. i had to unplug and replug it back in. i did the channel search and did the same problem when it got to channel 36! any one else have this issue? i am only about 4 miles from the antennas for my ota channels. i am using the simple rabbit ears which i started using the first time without any problems.

DonB2

12-08-06, 10:33 AM

windycitystyle,

I had some experience of that nature when doing a QAM search on Adams cable out of Binghamton , NY. The Samsung never really finished the search would go into a reboot and than I was able to watch the QAM channels it found.

Never could get it to complete the QAM channel seach completely.

I realise I am talking CABLE QAM and you are talking OTA ATSC so ust thought I would mention it.

I kinda blamed it on the Cable company.

-DonB2

windycitystyle

12-08-06, 10:52 AM

Rick_R

12-08-06, 12:33 PM

DonB2,

There are several threads about multicast must carry. I think they are over in the HDTV programming topic. I believe the current status is that cable and satellite only have to carry the main program and do not have to carry the extra subchannels. The broadcasters would like the FCC to impost multicast must carry. That way cable and satellite would be forced to carry all of their subchannels.

If you find the threads you will find a lot of people, including me, are strongly opposed to multicast must carry.

Rick R

derbeck

12-08-06, 01:08 PM

Pressing 5 Enter gets you 5.1; you don't need to enter the subchannel.

mn rugby

12-08-06, 01:28 PM

Need help; have a Panasonic PT 47X49 that I bought the H260F for after I had seen what my new Panasonic plasma does with the cable hook up. With the plasma and it's integrated tuner I am able to pu in HD the major stations and plenty of QAM content. I hooked the tuner up to the old Panny via component as well as running the cable through the tuner to the tv. After a few tweaks the analog looks fine but when I switch over to the component the hd and qam stations have blue streaks that move across the screen. What can I do about this? Thanks...

derbeck

12-08-06, 01:28 PM

I eventually found a DTB-H260F at BB and bought it. It does wonders with my old analog TV, and I get 27 digital stations from 40 miles away from Seattle (using a new 40" UHF antenna from Radio Shack). The menu works great connecting to component jacks on the TV. The result is sort of 1/2 way to HDTV for a very cheap price. I don't have or want cable. Since all the main Seattle TV stations have a digital channel, you don't really need the old analog channels.

dbudworth

12-08-06, 02:19 PM

I have had the H260 now for about 2 weeks now. First STB for me, so I don't have anything to compare it to. I'm pretty impressed with it so far. I bought the unit to cancel my outrageous pricey cable.

I bought a multi-directional 20dB Amplified TV Antenna from radio shack (model # 15-1634). I bought this one to try so I wouldn't have to use a rotor. Works fairly well, but the antenna is a bit picky for where to locate it. I currently have it up as high as I can get it in my attic and I am pulling in 23 OTA channels. I'm pulling in one PBS channel that is 55 miles away (Milwaukee, WI) according to antennaweb. I think when summer rolls back in, I'm going to mount it outside on top of my roof to see if I get a stronger signal. Every now and then the PBS channel will drop out, depending on the current weather conditions.

But for some reason, I am not picking up a few channels that I think I should be. The tower is only 30 miles from me. When I hook the antenna up to my TV directly w/o the H260, channel 13 (NBC out of Rockford, IL) comes in crystal clear. But when I hook up the H260, it will not pick up channel 13.1 Is this because their digital signal is too weak? I don't really care to much because I can pick up channel 15.1 (NBC out of Madison, WI)

Over all, I am very satisfied with the H260. I always wanted to get an HD STB, but didn't want to drop the $300 - $400 for a respectable box.

DonB2

12-08-06, 04:39 PM

dbudworth,

Attic antennas can be challenging , that is where I have mine mounted by the way.

Rain on shingles and attic mounted electrical equipment can cause issues.

The 13.1 may be UHF when the 13 analog is VHF. The 13.1 may be only transmitting at 1/2 power. There are other issues also.

I have a channel located on the same antenna farm and I can;t always get it but get the other stations off the antenna farm fine.

See if you have any multicast side channels on any of those channels, if you do you may find some alternative SD programming you may like.

-DonB2

bgstl

12-08-06, 04:56 PM

jtbell

12-08-06, 06:19 PM

I played a bit with my new DTB-H260F last night and this morning, and so far my impressions are mostly favorable.

I use OTA only, with a large combination VHF/UHF antenna and rotator on the roof. I'm in a rural area at the south end of the Greenville SC DMA. I can also receive stations from Charlotte, Columbia and Augusta with varying degrees of success. Most of the Greenville stations (40-80 miles away) come in fine with my other DTV receivers, but a couple are problematical because of co-channel interference from analog stations in Columbia. In general, the Greenville stations benefit by being up in the NC mountains. I think I have line-of-sight to all of them. Stations from the other cities (65+ miles) don't have that elevation advantage, and the intervening terrain blocks the line of sight to some extent, but I can still receive several Charlotte and Columbia stations pretty well, with the others being intermittent.

I don't think I have major multipath problems, except maybe for my neighbors' large trees which tower over the back of my suburban-type property. My issues are mainly distance, lack of line-of-sight, and co-channel interference.

So far, the DTB-H260F seems to hold onto weak signals somewhat better than the two receivers that I'm comparing it with now: the US Digital from Wal-Mart and the Sony DHG-HDD500 DVR. I've noticed this particularly with one station that doesn't have co-channel interference (WACH-DT in Columbia) and one that does (WUNF-DT in Asheville). In both cases I've been able to get a steady picture on the DTB-H260F when the others either showed no picture at all or had frequent breakups.

The 10-bar signal meter behaves differently from my other STBs, in that I can get at least some picture across the entire range. Even when the meter reads 1-2 bars I can usually get a picture with occasional breakups. The picture usually doesn't disappear completely until the meter drops to 0 to 1 bar. With most signal meters, the picture disappears around 60% to 65%.

A channel scan always wipes out the previous channel list. There's no "additional scan" option. You can scan individual channels by entering the RF channel number in normal operation, provided that the channel number doesn't exist as a virtual channel number already. This means you have to be careful about the sequence in which you add channels. For example, if I've already scanned WOLO-DT (virtual 25, RF 8) in Columbia, I can't add WUNF-DT (virtual 33, RF 25) in Asheville because entering 25 takes me to WOLO-DT.

Like with the predecessor SIR-T451, the aspect ratio setting isn't stored on a per-channel basis. So if I set it to "pillarbox" for an SD channel or subchannel, I have to set it back to "full" when I change to an HD channel.

The 15-second bootup time is slightly annoying, because I've gottten spoiled by units that stay in standby mode when turned off.

keeper

12-08-06, 06:35 PM

So far, the DTB-H260F seems to hold onto weak signals somewhat better than the two receivers that I'm comparing it with now: the US Digital from Wal-Mart and the Sony DHG-HDD500 DVR. I've noticed this particularly with one station that doesn't have co-channel interference (WACH-DT in Columbia) and one that does (WUNF-DT in Asheville). In both cases I've been able to get a steady picture on the DTB-H260F when the others either showed no picture at all or had frequent breakups.

Yep, the ota tuner is awesome. Much better than my previous 5 tuners.

jakesnakemd

12-08-06, 07:18 PM

Okay, I am getting up to speed with this tuner. As was previously said, this tuner may not be for those with an older tv like mine that doesn't have component or hdmi connectors (no menus). But I am able to get the menus in black and white (decent picture), by connecting the yellow video connector (composite video) to the green composite connector temporarily (this advice was given previously), to set up the channels, etc. Works great. In fact you can go retro and watch hi-def black and white if you like. Anyway, I plan on keeping this box and will use it with a newer HDTV "monitor" and probably be able to go hi-def on the cheap. Am going to try a Philips Silver Sensor antenna to see if I can lock in some Baltimore channels (already have an amp and an RCA type amped antenna, which works pretty well). Loving being digital finally.

DjohnsonCB

12-09-06, 01:39 AM

DjohnsonCB ,

You could always buy a pricier one and take it back if you don't see an improvement.

-DonB2
I did buy a more expensive HDMI cable. Performance was no different--the color picture went to BW after less than a minute. I had to tear the package apart to get the new HDMI cable out (damn clamshells!!!) so I doubt the store will allow a return. I decided to try the Samsung on another set using DVI (from the other set) to HDMI (on the Samsung). There was no color fade or flagging problem, so I wonder if the problem is in the HDMI outlet on my Sony TV? I had to replace the Sony once already; I am on my second one of these and the problem is still present.

mebert

12-09-06, 08:09 AM

that is the same thing that happened to me. it would reboot and then i am only able to watch the channels that it did scan prior to rebooting. it also makes a weird noise through my surround sound and makes my projector go into search mode! is this a common problem or do i have a deffective unit. if so then that sucks because i cant find any in the chicagoland area.
I have this exact problem with my unit that was purchased early this week. When I do a scan, it goes fine until ch36 then it reboots! I found a way around it is to remove the antenna connection just before the ch36 scan (around 34-35) then immediately plug it back in after it passes 36 to resume with the rest of the stations. I don't know if its a defective unit or if there is some signal out there that is causing the problems, but it sure is a pain in the butt! I'm afraid that if I send the unit back and they say they find nothing wrong with the unit, I will be charged for an extra restocking fee.

Anyone else see this problem???

-Mark

pkeegan

12-09-06, 09:33 AM

I've read of the problem of corrupt channels crashing receivers before here on AVS forum. Typically its a cable company/ OTA transmission error, but I'm no expert.

raybob

12-09-06, 12:38 PM

Thanks to all who've posted on this topic. I decided to buy one, but the're very hard to find right now. I found one on-line yesterday at "one call" and ordered it for 178.99 including shipping. They emailed back yesterday evening saying they'd shipped it already!

Just thought I share this for those still looking.

pkeegan

12-09-06, 01:02 PM

jtbell

12-09-06, 02:59 PM

When I do a scan, it goes fine until ch36 then it reboots! I found a way around it is to remove the antenna connection just before the ch36 scan (around 34-35) then immediately plug it back in after it passes 36 to resume with the rest of the stations.

I've seen this before with a different receiver (don't remember which one). It's probably an error in the station's PSIP data (the part of the data stream that carries the virtual channel number, program listings, etc.). Some receivers are more forgiving than others, of PSIP errors. If you contact the station about it, their engineers will probably be interested to hear about it and try to fix it. Sometimes this is the only way that they can find out that they have a problem!

In the meantime, you can add channels manually, if you know the channel the station is actually broadcasting its digital signal on. For example, my "channel 4" actually uses channel 59 for digital. If my channel list doesn't already have a 59-1, 59-2 etc., when I enter "59" the display changes to "4-1" after a pause, and the unit memorizes that channel if it's not already in the list. Thereafter I can tune it as "4".

James R. Geib

12-10-06, 03:17 AM

DjohnsonCB,

When using the HDMI output, does the image change to B&W on every resolution setting? Have you tried using the inexpensive HDMI cable at 480p, 720p and 1080i? When I connect the Samsung to my display using HDMI, only 480p works. The other two resolutions look B/W, or more like the colors are screwed actually up.

Dmon4u

12-10-06, 10:43 AM

My local CC always plays games. For the second time in two weeks I got the E-Mail that the STB was in stock at my local store. Each time the notice came after mid-night.

Each time I check the site and yes it's in.

So this morning like the last morning, I recheck before heading to the store and 'puff' it's no longer in stock.

I call and get a familiar voice. I ask the guy what happened. Here's the answer: "Oh, the employee's bought every one !"

Since I don't like to buy online and pick up at the store, I guess this game will go on for a while.

* I like to see how damaged the box is before I purchase anything. Call me paranoid !

DrElectron

12-10-06, 01:26 PM

I just picked up the last DTB-260F at Circuit City in Durham on Friday and have been playing with it. I'm impressed with the tuner's ability to pick up and stay locked to digital stations that are about 40 miles away. I'm concerned that the quality of the picture is not as good as what I can get with TW Cable 8300HD. I plan to move from component cables to HDMI to see if that improves PQ. For those of you who are trying to buy one of these STBs, Best Buy in Durham had 3 in stock as of Friday night.

Olevia37HD

12-10-06, 01:30 PM

ikeisaacks

12-10-06, 04:54 PM

Has any one in Denver area figured out the channel conversion for Comcast Digital.
I know 90-1 on the 260 is FOX HD channel 655, but nothing else matches or crosses over. Any ideas?

TommyK

12-10-06, 09:17 PM

Has any one in Denver area figured out the channel conversion for Comcast Digital.
I know 90-1 on the 260 is FOX HD channel 655, but nothing else matches or crosses over. Any ideas?

Comcast seems to be playing a cat and mouse game with QAM In-The-Clear digital channels by reassigning channel numbers every few weeks. This link will take you to the current discussion in progress: Denver Comcast Discussion (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=293562&page=78&pp=30)

Chiappini

12-11-06, 02:25 AM

I've read through this thread and never saw an answer, even though others have asked:

Are the pillarbox bars on the sides of a 16x9 screen showing a 4x3 image black or gray in color? Older Samsung tuners were a distracting gray.

TIA,

Paul

bigpoppa206

12-11-06, 03:02 AM

Does anyone have a QAM Channel list for the (North) Seattle Comcast area? I am wondering what channels will come through if I purchase a DTB-H260F tuner for my Samsung TX-R2678WH. Thanks.

jtbell

12-11-06, 04:49 AM

Are the pillarbox bars on the sides of a 16x9 screen showing a 4x3 image black or gray in color?

They're black, if you're receiving a true 4:3 (480i) signal and the Samsung is set to "16:9 Pillar" mode. If you're receiving a 720p or 1080i signal that contains an upconverted 4:3 SD image, you get whatever the station filled the pillarbars with.

jtbell

12-11-06, 04:52 AM

Does anyone have a QAM Channel list for the (North) Seattle Comcast area?

Check the Seattle Comcast thread in the local reception forum, and ask there if you don't see a list already posted.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=253006

jtbell

12-11-06, 05:12 AM

I was hoping that I could use the S-Video and component outputs simultaneously. That would allow me to record from the Samsung to my DVD recorder via S-Video (in SD of course) while watching the HD on my TV.

It turns out that the S-Video output is indeed active while the component output is in use, even if the resolution-select switch is set to 480p, 720p or 1080i. However, the "Aspect" button on the remote affects only the component output in this case. It does not affect the S-Video output. I can record true SD and anamorphic HD properly. However, if I record SD upconverted to HD with pillarbars added to the signal, I can't get rid of the pillarbars, but have to record it as anamorphic HD instead.

I suspect that if I disconnect the component output, the aspect control might then work with the S-Video output, but I haven't tried it. It would be impractical to disconnect the component cables when I want to record, anyway.

I can already dub to DVD properly from my Sony HD DVR, so it's not a big deal for me. I do have the impression that the PQ is a bit better with the Samsung, and it can pick up some signals that the Sony can't. So I might use it for some recordings anyway.

foxeng

12-11-06, 07:30 AM

Are the pillarbox bars on the sides of a 16x9 screen showing a 4x3 image black or gray in color?

Black. As with the other Samsung's, there may be a key combo that will change it gray, but I haven't looked to see.

DonB2

12-11-06, 10:46 AM

Jakesnakemd

"by connecting the yellow video connector (composite video) to the green composite connector temporarily (this advice was given previously), "

The output of the 3 wire 3 color is called Component not composite.

Just so no one else gets confused.

-DonB2

DonB2

12-11-06, 10:47 AM

"Originally Posted by mebert
When I do a scan, it goes fine until ch36 then it reboots! I found a way around it is to remove the antenna connection just before the ch36 scan (around 34-35) then immediately plug it back in after it passes 36 to resume with the rest of the stations."

This is a good tip on getting around the reboot!! I will give it a try.

Thanks,

Donb2

Rick_R

12-11-06, 12:54 PM

I have the Dish dual tuner that down converts the HD signal to 480i to feed a second TV. The second TV is fed with a coaxial cable, and the TV must be set to channel 75 to receive the signal. If I use this box and connect it to my HDTV with HDMI, will it upconvert the signal back to 1080i?
If you are using the 622, the second TV output is an analog SD output. It can not be converted back to true HD because this info is lost. In fact if you use this box it does not decode analog SD signals at all.

Rick R

DonB2

12-11-06, 01:22 PM

Raleigh-Durham Availability

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I just picked up the last DTB-260F at Circuit City in Durham on Friday and have been playing with it. I'm impressed with the tuner's ability to pick up and stay locked to digital stations that are about 40 miles away. I'm concerned that the quality of the picture is not as good as what I can get with TW Cable 8300HD. I plan to move from component cables to HDMI to see if that improves PQ. For those of you who are trying to buy one of these STBs, Best Buy in Durham had 3 in stock as of Friday night.

- Thanks for the Raleigh NC update on availability.

I just got back from the Best Buy off of 15-501 in Durham - for you Raleigh Durham folks and they had two. One was an open box and I would have bought it as a present if they had gave me a discount instead of that lousy apply towards next purchase policy they just started. They would not even let me apply it towards another purchase I was making the same day.

Oh well maybe someone else can take advantage of the two.

By the way the store number is 160 and phone for the store is (919)403-2333

-DonB2

oryan_dunn

12-11-06, 02:00 PM

Does anyone have a QAM Channel list for the (North) Seattle Comcast area? I am wondering what channels will come through if I purchase a DTB-H260F tuner for my Samsung TX-R2678WH. Thanks.

You may want to do a search in the local reception forum. There you'll most likely find a thread for Seattle and those that check that thread will be more able to help you.

jakesnakemd

12-11-06, 02:38 PM

I finally got my act together and hooked up my composite video cable properly to get the b&w menus (yellow video to green component on stb). Brings in a nice b&w picture. Now for those with enough inputs, but are component/hdmi challenged (no inputs of that type), I just figured out this work around. I left the composite video connected to the green component output on the stb. I hooked my composite cables to video 2, and also s-video from stb to tv (video 2 and s-video share the same audio connection), then my dishnetwork composite inputs to video 1, and finally composite cables from tv out to vcr in. Can get b&w on video 2 (with menus), color s video on s-video output (no menus), dish on video 1, and also now can get a digital feed to my vcr for recordings. Kind of old school but works pretty nicely and I can just flip between video 2 and s-video to set up the stb.

Also, tried the 260 on my son-in-laws tv with component inputs Saturday. He has the very basic Comcast cable to save money. Picture is pure analog (grainy). Ran the setup on all three cable choices (standard, hrc, irc--what the heck do these mean?) and we were able to pull quite a few channels from their cable in full digital (the biggest number of channels came in on IRC) including what appeared to be quite a few pay for view movie channels! He just sat there with his mouth hanging open most of the evening. Before I left he was writing down the info off the box to go looking for one.

GBruno

12-11-06, 03:29 PM

I just ordered the 260 from Amazon. I have Comcast with the Motto 6412. I am planning on dumping Comcast and going with DISH IF I get good CBS/NBC/FOX OTA (in Aptos, CA the Locals are not HD).

I am curious however. The Motto does not have RF cable out. I know I can run an antenna into the 260 and then run the HDMI from the 260 to my HD monitor (which has no tuners). But can I run the cable line into the 260 and then to the Motto and then to the monitor??? I have confused myself. Any help is appreciated.

Also with Dish (the 622 I think) how does the 260 hook up? Thanks for any feedback.

Greg

DjohnsonCB

12-11-06, 05:39 PM

[QUOTE=DjohnsonCB]I did buy a more expensive HDMI cable. Performance was no different--the color picture went to BW after less than a minute. I had to tear the package apart to get the new HDMI cable out (damn clamshells!!!) so I doubt the store will allow a return. I decided to try the Samsung on another set using DVI (from the other set) to HDMI (on the Samsung). There was no color fade or flagging problem, so I wonder if the problem is in the HDMI outlet on my Sony TV? I had to replace the Sony once already; I am on my second one of these and the problem is still present.[/QUOTE

What Sony model do you have?
I ask as this may be a flag to others.
Thanks

To you, Mr. Geib and anyone else concerned, I have it connected to a Sony KLV-S19A10. I talked to someone at Samsung today and he says that at least two of the Samsung boxes, including this new one, are required to incorporate HDCP (High Definition Copyright Protection) software and firmware. If you use the box with a TV, usually an older one, that does not accept HDCP, you'll end up with the color-to-BW fading and occasional interference using a pure HDMI connection and you'll need to go with a component cable connection instead (this way, it looks and works fantastic for me).

But not only was I hoping to use a pure HDMI connection with no problems, the Samsung guy figured that since my Sony was bought only a few months ago, that set would accept it. So I called Sony, but after a lot of waiting, all I got was someone who claimed my model didn't, but she also assumed it had no HDMI outlet...until I told her that it was hidden behind a removable panel in the back ("Really?", she replied). Then, after about 45 minutes more of dead air punctuated by an occasional "I dunno...let me connect you with someone who might know", I got nowhere on this and still don't know if I got a bad TV, or if this TV isn't one that accepts HDCP. What concerns me further is that I'm on the clock here--I need to return the original within a certain time frame to avoid being charged for two of the same set (Sony sent me a refurbished version of the set I initially had trouble with and wants me to return the first one in the box they sent the refurb in).