Samsung DTB-H260F ATSC tuner [Text View] - Page 8

bigpoppa206

05-10-07, 04:47 AM

Quick question tho, what's the advantage for the Sammy vs the Toshiba D-R550 which is also a DVD recorder with QAM tuner? Seems I could eliminate a HD STB and DVD player with one unit and gain recording capabilities.
The Toshiba upconverts the 480i signal to 1080i whereas the Samsung output actually is 1080i. Of course the Toshiba has built in recording and the Samsung does not...at least not this model. If you search this thread, there is talk about some newer models coming out from Samsung which will have DVD recorders also...sometime in the future.

For my situation, it was easier to get the the Samsung and take an old Dell Precision 340 workstation and slap a FusionHDTV card in it and get real 1080i recordings that are better than DVD quality. YMMV. :D

Kid Red

05-10-07, 07:56 AM

vincetnyc-The Toshiba is ten dollars or so more at buy.com and it upconverts to 1080p. Under two hundred free shipping and I'm wondering the differences/advantages.

bigpoppa- I understand the down rez during recording/playback, but I would watch a pass thru signal over QAM would I not? Or do you that the Toshiba will send out an upconverted signal from QAM? No pass thru of the signal? Or do you specifically refer to the recordings? I could care less about the DVDR feature, this is for the bedroom, 3-4 times a week for an hour or so. The wife might like the idea and is oblivious to PQ. I like the idea that I can get an upconverting 1080p DVD player and QAM turner in one box for the same price as a QAM tuner. I can ditch my other DVD player and just have the one box. But, I don't want to lose any signal when watching live feeds.

Budget HT- I believe I've already checked my Panny over cable but I could be wrong. You think I should check it again to make sure I don't indeed have QAM? OK.

DonB2

05-10-07, 12:49 PM

Kid Red, I would recommend you check some of the forums under:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=106

You will see that all of us are frustrated as to pass thru cabability or lact there of found in the latest crop of ATSC tuner equipt DVD recorders.

It is appearing so far that none do HD passthru and I believe this applies to QAM also.

I have wrote LG several times and basically told them that they were wrong in telling me that I would get HD passthru on HDMI with the LG DVD ATSC recorders.

They replied by not relpying. :mad:

-DonB2

nguyent999

05-10-07, 02:13 PM

Kid Red

05-10-07, 02:13 PM

DonB2- So you can't get pass thru HD on any of the DVD recorders at all? So, then, that's the catch. You can get the DVD player and recording capabilities but you can't watch true a live HD signal on any DVDR? Wow, that clears things up for me then.

DonB2

05-10-07, 06:28 PM

Kid Red- I can't speak for QAM but that is the way it is sizing up for ATSC OTA.

Hey I could be wrong and someone will pipe in with one that does.

-DonB2

Kid Red

05-10-07, 08:36 PM

Wow, I had no idea those DVD recorders with tuners won't allow their users to experience the incoming HD signals as HD! That's amazing. Looks like I'll be going with the Sammy then for tuner only capability.

vincentnyc

05-10-07, 09:35 PM

dbsc

05-10-07, 10:08 PM

did you ask if comcast provide ota hd channel thru their service for free?
Dude, you're going to confuse people with the unintentional misinformation. OTA means with an antenna, that's why it's called "over the air" and not "over the cable". I don't mean to be rude or anything, but please get it right so people just tuning in to the forum here don't get thoroughly confused by conflicting definitions.

bigpoppa206

05-10-07, 10:41 PM

Dude, you're going to confuse people with the unintentional misinformation. OTA means with an antenna, that's why it's called "over the air" and not "over the cable". I don't mean to be rude or anything, but please get it right so people just tuning in to the forum here don't get thoroughly confused by conflicting definitions.
But his heart's in the right place! Actually what I think he meant was, ask Comcast what channels are "in the clear" as far as what local, open channels does Comcast pass through to those of us with QAM capabilities. For the most part, their customer service probably does not know.

jzareski

05-10-07, 11:02 PM

So I remove the cable from my Comcast (Motorola) HDVT tuner and plugged it into the 260F, but the Samsung wouldn't detect any channel, I tried IRC, HRC and STD mode. If I connected an OTA antenna, the box will detect the channels.

2nd problem, I can't seem to be able to enter the "-", i.e. 2-1

As soon as I hit the "-", the channel goes to what ever it was on, almost like hitting Cancel button.

I'm in Methuen, MA. Perhaps the Comcast signal there is incompatible with the 260 tuner?

Help!

Question,

1) Your cable provider provides QAM including OTA DTV by open (unencrypted) QAM?

2) You took the "raw" cable feed out of a wall connection (not down several splitters) and connected it to the "ANT / CABLE IN"?

3) During the scanning process (takes a couple of minutes to complete, depending on which channel you started on, will scan 1 through 135), in the upper left corner of the screen it indicated DTV Cable?

4) During the scanning process, you were not pushing the R/C "Antenna" button, which toggles between Air and Cable tuning?

5) After the "Cable" scanning process is completed, it immediately should indicate it found one or a couple of hundred + channels (includes scrambled)?

6) If it indicated DTV Cable 0 found, you either have a bad connection, bad jumper, low signal, or S.O.O.L. - a bad QAM tuner or your provider...Well maybe not as even if all channels were scrambled, the STB would indicate a found channel.

7) The "-" works if you enter a valid channel that is on at the time you enter it or was stored in the channel list.

8) Looking at the channel list when Antenna has "Cable" selected, you see no DTV cable channels with numbers like major-minor?

Z

nguyent999

05-11-07, 06:49 AM

I did ask Comcast rep about clear Qam, he mumble something in reply. I'm pretty sure he either didn't know or didn't want me to know. I can only assume that since the Fed ruling, the signal should be available over the wire.

Question,

1) Your cable provider provides QAM including OTA DTV by open (unencrypted) QAM?
A: I can only assume, a friend who lives about 10 miles away, using Comcast also, and he has clear qam signal

2) You took the "raw" cable feed out of a wall connection (not down several splitters) and connected it to the "ANT / CABLE IN"?
A: the cable went through 1 splitter (good up to 1ghz), installed by Comcast, so here again, I assume that it's a decent splitter, also the fact that I can get the channels with the Comcast/Motorola tuner.

3) During the scanning process (takes a couple of minutes to complete, depending on which channel you started on, will scan 1 through 135), in the upper left corner of the screen it indicated DTV Cable?
A: The upper left corner doesn't show anything.

4) During the scanning process, you were not pushing the R/C "Antenna" button, which toggles between Air and Cable tuning?
A: No, I did not do that. Should I ? I'm going to give that a try.

5) After the "Cable" scanning process is completed, it immediately should indicate it found one or a couple of hundred + channels (includes scrambled)?
A: It showed 0 channel found.

6) If it indicated DTV Cable 0 found, you either have a bad connection, bad jumper, low signal, or S.O.O.L. - a bad QAM tuner or your provider...Well maybe not as even if all channels were scrambled, the STB would indicate a found channel.
A: I still have some hope that clear Qam signal is there, I might go to CC to exchange the 260F this weekend and try again.

7) The "-" works if you enter a valid channel that is on at the time you enter it or was stored in the channel list.

8) Looking at the channel list when Antenna has "Cable" selected, you see no DTV cable channels with numbers like major-minor?
A: No, since there were no channels found during the scan.

Z

Thanks for all your help.

Tan

drinklime

05-11-07, 06:44 PM

Mallego

05-11-07, 09:23 PM

Tan, Methuen is fed from the Lawrence Hub which uses the HRC channel plan. Comcast in all of New England carries the local broadcasters unencrypted.

You should be abel to receive them.

Mallego

Kid Red

05-12-07, 08:15 AM

Is this box the best choice for QAM reception? I bought it only intending it for OTA, since I read the chip was good for picking up weak signals with my indoor antenna. I tried the QAM on my coax on a whim, and I got all the channels I needed. I just wonder if the DTB-H260F is overkill if you are just using QAM? Are there cheaper alternatives or do they have their own setbacks just like with OTA?

As far as I've seen there aren't many QAM options. Overkill? Why? Expensive, maybe. But if you want QAM, your TV doesn't, then you have to pay either the cable company or for a stb like the Sammy.

drinklime

05-13-07, 12:48 AM

Is there any way to feed this box Cable and Antenna at the same time, or is a manual switch the only option? I remember reading about some device that's like a splitter in reverse for combining 2 antennas... could you use that and combine the antenna with the cable?

jeff2631

05-13-07, 02:37 AM

The manual says the local cable provider may be passing 8VSB and QAM through their system. Then you would scan with air+cable.
If your cable provider does not use the OTA frequencies, then you could try combining with a splitter in reverse. Otherwise, a RF switch would be needed.

The Hound

05-14-07, 12:45 AM

vincentnyc

05-14-07, 09:13 AM

vincentnyc

05-14-07, 07:29 PM

ok status update..came home and same problem..blank black screen. i was using a dvi-hdmi cable..swap it out with a hdmi-hdmi cable from my ps3 and pix came back up. then put back hdmi-dvi cable and also got the pix back.

wtf? what should i do if the same problem comes back? what could the problem be?

SWHouston

05-15-07, 02:59 AM

vincentnyc,

Gees, I hate to suggest this, but, I think you need to get your 260 on a single input to it and thru to your TV, at least till you resolve the blackout problem.

I know how difficult it is, given you've got it setup through your Surround, I have much the same setup, except I'm using a JVC Amp. Having it integrated with that splitter, just allows too much to have to be considered, I think.

I know it worked before, but.......

Have a good Day ! :)

L David Matheny

05-15-07, 07:41 AM

ok im experiencing a weird problem recently. it started last week. anyway...when i turn on the samsung and my logitech 5.1 surroun sound system. i got a blank screen last week. nothing show up on my tv screen but i was able to get sound. i try to turn my tv and samsung hdtv tuner on and off..but couldnt get picture. i connected my samsung thru my tv thru hdmi. i try to jiggle it and nothing. i try to switch the back of the unit from 1080i/720p/480p in the back of samsung unit..but nothing. i was gonna connect the samsung thru component later on the day last week. but finally the pix came back up.

so i didnt though of about it anymore. but the problem came back again today and nothing i do to get the pix back..but i got sound though. i have my samsung connected thru a 3 way splitter with my twc cable service. so i dont know what could be the problem could be? could the samsung be defective, bad hdmi cable, or the signal splitter? i think the unit will work again when i go home today.
So you've got the cable split to the DTB-H260F and to your TV and to ... what? As SWHouston says, try feeding just the 260 directly at least temporarily. You could try feeding the other two devices by splitting the feedthru output from the 260.

Difficulty locking onto the video signal can be caused by a weak or noisy signal. Depending upon the tuner design, audio may be output before video is considered stable enough. I think the ATI chipset in the 260 works that way. But if the problem occurs on all stations, that would be worrisome.

vincentnyc

05-15-07, 09:22 AM

So you've got the cable split to the DTB-H260F and to your TV and to ... what? As SWHouston says, try feeding just the 260 directly at least temporarily. You could try feeding the other two devices by splitting the feedthru output from the 260.

Difficulty locking onto the video signal can be caused by a weak or noisy signal. Depending upon the tuner design, audio may be output before video is considered stable enough. I think the ATI chipset in the 260 works that way. But if the problem occurs on all stations, that would be worrisome.

it is a 3 way splitter. one to to 260, one go to my pioneer dvr, and last one go to my twc analog cable box.

ghken

05-15-07, 07:44 PM

Picked up the Samsung STB at Circuit City yesterday and have been testing it out today. First impressions:

No QAM for me, only going after OTA - zip 49417. It's a somewhat challenging reception area - towers are 15-45 miles away (not too bad) but they are not all in the same direction and cover a broad frequency range from low VHF to mid UHF (channels 2-39). There are some trees and a few dunes to deal with. Probably a candidate for high mounted and maybe multiple antennas, as well as a rotor. Yuck.

I had previously put a RS VU-90 XR in the attic which didn't work very well with my LG 3510a - no surprise there. But hooking up the Samsung and after a scan I am pulling in everything except the notoriously difficult WWMT-DT 3.1, broadcasting digitally on channel 2 (check out the Grand Rapids HDTV reception thread for the gory details). I'll work on trying to pull that station in later, but if I don't get it no big deal. But getting everything else is pretty phenomenal. This was without futzing with the antenna and on a pretty windy day with heavy rain this afternoon. So the most critical thing this box needs to do it does extremely well.

I have noticed a couple of quirks. Trying to figure out if it's a faulty unit or just in the design. First issue is something I've read others having problems with - the box occasionally just loses signal completely across the board for all channels. The only thing that will bring them back is a power off/on cycle. A couple of times the box even did the power cycle all by itself when this happened. I can't pinpoint the pattern or reproduce it - seems to happen more frequently when I am changing channels, but has also happened when I've been watching the same channel for a long time. Not good if I want to do any unattended recording and am not there to reboot the box. For those that have this problem - any fix? I can take the unit back for exchange if this quirk is the exception and not the rule.

The second issue is that the component output crops the 4:3 SD subchannel images slightly when compared to the composite/s-video output of the same channels. So far I have been playing only with my two Sony 4:3 SD sets, so the box is configured to 480i output and aspect ratio set to 4:3 Full (not Zoom!). I have the Samsung hooked up to both composite and component inputs and when I switch between them, the component image is cropped - probably between 5-10% evenly on all sides - when compared to what I see on the composite input. I will later be testing this on my 16:9 HD projector to see if it suffers the same cropping on component or HDMI inputs. Component and composite images were identical when viewing the HD 16:9 channels, it was only on the SD 4:3 subchannels where the component cropping occurred. Just my unit or is this normal for this STB?

Thanks for any responses.

DonB2

05-17-07, 12:24 PM

ghken ,

I use Component out to my Pioneer 43 inch Plasma and have not noticed this cropping effect you mention on sub channels. I will look more closely for you but it seems I would have noticed this.

I do stretch the 4:3's on main channel to get rid of side bars which also cuts off some of the bottom and top but overall I like it better than sidebars.

I have had my unit loose channels and have to power cycle it.

The first time was just one channel when I was fooling around with A/B switch and swapping things in and out.

The odd thing is the signal strength meter indicated a channel was there.

Then more recently I would get no channels and would have to reboot to get them back.

DO NOT HAVE A FIX :mad:

It may be a channel xmit incompatibility issue.

-DonB2

Avio

05-19-07, 03:04 PM

Please pardon my intrusion into this Samsung DTB-H260F Thread, but I'm hoping someone here can help me. The DTB-H260F seems to be a great, state-of-the-art tuner!

I have a Samsung HLT5689S DLP RPTV, and previously had an HLS5679W. I have had an annoying problem with OTA via roof antenna reception of my local NBC network affiliate, KOB-DTV, Channel 4-1.

Several Senior, Advanced, AVS Forum members in my area have alleged that this problem is caused by a defect in many SAMSUNG ATSC Tuners. I have spoken with the Chief Engineer of the local TV station and he too says that the problem is caused by SAMSUNG ATSC Tuners.

I have discussed this issue at great length in the following AVS Thread:

AVS Forum > HDTV > Local HDTV Info and Reception:
Albuquerque, NM - HDTV Thread, Page 158, Posts #4720 thru #4738 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10445782&highlight=samsung&&#post10445782)

One AVS Member in the Albuquerque Thread wrote:
... I have a Samsung SIR-T451 that doesn't map 26's virtual channel. I can only watch KOB on 26. ... Here is a summary of the issue:
I get excellent quality Over-The-Air, via roof antenna, reception on all the major network stations in my area... excellent signal strength too. But I can only receive NBC programming on Channel 26-3 and I get no PSIP (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10450292&highlight=psip+virtual&&#post10450292) Information (i.e. No Programming Info, Scheduling Info, Station Identification, etc.). My Samsung LED HLT TV does not "map" Channel 26-3 to its correct Virtual (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10450292&highlight=psip+virtual&&#post10450292) Channel 4-1. On two occasions in the past the mapping worked correctly and I did receive NBC on 4-1; but, in each case, the mapping dropped out and NBC was back on 26-3. I have tried deleting channels and adding channels.

Has anyone here in this Samsung Thread experienced this issue with any of their OTA Local Channels?

Can anyone here confirm that this is a SAMSUNG issue and not a local broadcaster issue?

Thanks for your consideration. Avio

Kid Red

05-19-07, 04:52 PM

Can someone help me out-I just got the Sammy and connected my cable line to it. I did this in hoping that I'd pick up basic cable channels and their free and clear HD channels. I have an LCD with QAM tuner in the garage that gets the basic cable channels and HD local channels.

However, after connecting the Sammy, I only get OTA channels as if the cable was an antenna. Can I not pass basic cable thru the Sammy like TVs with QAM tuners built in? Or do I have to have 1 line for cable and 1 line for antenna with an AB switch or something ridiculous? I thought this would be as easy as my other LCD w/tuner.

jeff2631

05-19-07, 06:23 PM

Please pardon my intrusion into this Samsung DTB-H260F Thread, but I'm hoping someone here can help me. The DTB-H260F seems to be a great, state-of-the-art tuner!

I have a Samsung HLT5689S DLP RPTV, and previously had an HLS5679W. I have had an annoying problem with OTA via roof antenna reception of my local NBC network affiliate, KOB-DTV, Channel 4-1.

Several Senior, Advanced, AVS Forum members in my area have alleged that this problem is caused by a defect in many SAMSUNG ATSC Tuners. I have spoken with the Chief Engineer of the local TV station and he too says that the problem is caused by SAMSUNG ATSC Tuners.

I have discussed this issue at great length in the following AVS Thread:

AVS Forum > HDTV > Local HDTV Info and Reception:
Albuquerque, NM - HDTV Thread, Page 158, Posts #4720 thru #4738 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10445782&highlight=samsung&&#post10445782)

One AVS Member in the Albuquerque Thread wrote:
Here is a summary of the issue:
I get excellent quality Over-The-Air, via roof antenna, reception on all the major network stations in my area... excellent signal strength too. But I can only receive NBC programming on Channel 26-3 and I get no PSIP (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10450292&highlight=psip+virtual&&#post10450292) Information (i.e. No Programming Info, Scheduling Info, Station Identification, etc.). My Samsung LED HLT TV does not "map" Channel 26-3 to its correct Virtual (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10450292&highlight=psip+virtual&&#post10450292) Channel 4-1. On two occasions in the past the mapping worked correctly and I did receive NBC on 4-1; but, in each case, the mapping dropped out and NBC was back on 26-3. I have tried deleting channels and adding channels.

Has anyone here in this Samsung Thread experienced this issue with any of their OTA Local Channels?

Can anyone here confirm that this is a SAMSUNG issue and not a local broadcaster issue?

Thanks for your consideration. Avio

I've seen PSIP problems a couple of times and both times the problem was with the station. I used tsreader to see that one was missing the master guide table in the PSIP. My ViewSonic HDTV N3760w will not receive the channel.at all and the DTB-H260F will receive but displays the physical channel with a -3 as the virtual channel. See the two following links.

http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/5022/5588.html?1173545661

http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/80/5472.html?1169843574

jeff2631

05-19-07, 06:26 PM

Avio

05-19-07, 06:48 PM

I've seen PSIP problems a couple of times and both times the problem was with the station. I used tsreader to see that one was missing the master guide table in the PSIP. My ViewSonic HDTV N3760w will not receive the channel.at all and the DTB-H260F will receive but displays the physical channel with a -3 as the virtual channel. See the two following links.

http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/5022/5588.html?1173545661

http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/80/5472.html?1169843574Thanks for your response and for the links. Those threads are discussing the right problem; but in each case the problem seemed to fix itself.

I no longer have IEEE 1394 Firewire from my TV to my PC so I guess I can not use TSreader to check the PSIP.

The Chief Engineer of the station said:

... He was well aware of the "Samsung Issue" that several here have referred to. He said that KOB has four Samsung ATSC receivers in-house and one of those four locks in on 26-3, 26-4.

He explained that KOB-DT uses the same industry standard PSIP hardware and software and that their diagnostics indicate that their PSIP settings are the same as everybody else. He said their Engineering Dept is confused too ... about why Samsungs have this problem.Most other HDTV OTA viewers in my area do not have this problem with this station's virtual channel.

Thanks again. Avio

jeff2631

05-19-07, 07:17 PM

Thanks for your response and for the links. Those threads are discussing the right problem; but in each case the problem seemed to fix itself.

I no longer have IEEE 1394 Firewire from my TV to my PC so I guess I can not use TSreader to check the PSIP.

The Chief Engineer of the station said:

Most other HDTV OTA viewers in my area do not have this problem with this station's virtual channel.

Thanks again. Avio

I'm pretty sure that my stations corrected their PSIP and the problem did not just fix themselves. If you are only having the problem with that one station, then I would think something is wrong with their PSIP. Maybe someone in your area can check the PSIP with TSreader. Anyone else in your area using a DTB-H260F should see the same problem.

Avio

05-19-07, 08:17 PM

I'm pretty sure that my stations corrected their PSIP and the problem did not just fix themselves.That's what I meant by, "fix themselves." ... ;)

... If you are only having the problem with that one station, then I would think something is wrong with their PSIP. Maybe someone in your area can check the PSIP with TSreader ... We, many Samsung ATSC Tuners Owners in my area, only have the problem with the one station. Others do not. Checking with TSreader is a good idea.

... Anyone else in your area using a DTB-H260F should see the same problem.Good idea; I'll check.

Thanks. Avio

Budget_HT

05-19-07, 09:05 PM

A few years back, I spent many hours working with the technical staff folks at several local OTA HDTV channels. At the time, I had 2 HDTV receivers that could accept and use PSIP data for program guide displays. Those same station technical folks were also working with several other technically-aware viewers in attempts to get a cross section of receiver types. We were also working on audio issues, including A/V sync issues.

One clear outcome of that effort was inconsistencies in the equipment and software at both ends--the broadcast studio and the home reception areas. There were weeks of trial and error tweaks applied to try to get the broadcast streams compatible with as many varieties of home equipment as possible.

One of the first priority items they attempted to get working was the physical/logical channel mapping feature of the PSIP world. A lot of learning was going on since the Dolby Digital encoding equipment and the PSIP management systems were new to every station, and the products themselves were very young.

Eventually, we ended up with every station being compatible with nearly every current receiver model in the homes. Every once in a while, we see cases where parts of the PSIP world are not working again. The station engineers and technicians are happy to hear feedback from us (much of it via the AVSForum itself) and work through the issues.

I had a Samsung HD receiver back then but I do not have one now.

IMHO, I would guess that the problem still will be found at the TV station.

sorceror

05-20-07, 08:30 AM

Thursday we went to watch a couple of season finales in HD, and got no signal at all from my H260F. During commercials I tried switching from HDMI to component, power-cycling, even unplugging and re-plugging it in. Nothing helped. The only difference noted was, as before, when it was turned off the pass-through cable signal was degraded, when it was turned on the pass-through signal was fine.

Yesterday I got a little time to play with it, left it unplugged for a long time, and manipulated the last possible control - the resolution switch. Suddenly I got a 1080i signal. Then I dropped it down to 720p (the native resolution of my TV) and it was working. How nice. I was able to see some HD on ABC, NBC, and PBS for about 10 minutes. Then the signal disappeared, the TV switching from blue to green on a fast cycle.

After that, nothing has gotten the thing to put out a usable signal. I have to assume I have a dead unit, and I'll be looking into warranty service. Anyone else run into something like this?

Kid Red

05-20-07, 08:33 AM

On cable the DTB-H260F will only receive the clear QAM channels and not any analog cable channels.

Ah, that blows. Are there any other options? Other units that will do that?

When cable finally goes digital, will I then be able to get the basic channels (assuming they become digital?) It's this year correct-so theoretically I could wait and soon get basic cable digital channels on this box?

Mloot

05-20-07, 09:36 AM

Ah, that blows. Are there any other options? Other units that will do that?

I use an older RCA DTC-210 that passes the analog cable channels just fine, but I'm sure its OTA receiver is not nearly as good as the Samsung's. The unit has separate inputs for OTA and cable.

Avio

05-20-07, 11:14 AM

... Eventually, we ended up with every station being compatible with nearly every current receiver model in the homes. Every once in a while, we see cases where parts of the PSIP world are not working again. The station engineers and technicians are happy to hear feedback from us (much of it via the AVSForum itself) and work through the issues. ...

IMHO, I would guess that the problem still will be found at the TV station.Thanks for your response and for explaining your extensive experience with PSIP compatibility between the broadcaster and the wide variety of home receiver configurations.

I appreciate your conclusion that the problem lies with the station's PSIP data transmission and not with the Samsung tuners.

Do you think the Station's Engineer has an obligation (legal or other) to troubleshoot this issue until a resolution is found? The Engineer is presently taking the position that it is a known Samsung problem and only Samsung can fix it.

Avio

Avio

05-20-07, 11:28 AM

... If you are only having the problem with that one station, then I would think something is wrong with their PSIP. Maybe someone in your area can check the PSIP with TSreader. ... jeff2631: As you suggested, I plan to ask folks in my area to check the PSIP with TSreader. I looked at the TSreader website and have a few questions:

TSReader: MPEG-2 Transport Stream Analysis and Recording
http://www.coolstf.com/tsreader/

TSReader: Hardware Support
http://www.coolstf.com/tsreader/hardware.html

TSreader is available in 3 versions: Lite, Standard, Professional

Can any of these 3 versions read and analyze the PSIP data coming from the station?

How do you use TSreader to look at PSIP data and what should we be looking for to correct the problem as stated in the above posts?

Thanks for your help. Avio

jeff2631

05-20-07, 01:44 PM

I use the free TSreader Lite version to look at ts files that I record with the Autumnwave OnAir GT. I record about 60 seconds from each of my stations so if something goes wrong, I know how they were configured. You could compare your other good stations to your problem station. The web site www.psip.org has info on the data. I'll try the html export to see a data report.

Avio

05-20-07, 05:32 PM

jeff2631

05-20-07, 05:43 PM

jeff2631: Thanks very much for answering all my questions. I'll let the folks in my area know how to use TSreader to solve our problem.

Avio

If you can get someone to record the station for about 60 seconds to a ts file and upload it to rapidshare, then we can all look at it with TSreader to see what the PSIP data may have wrong with it.

Budget_HT

05-20-07, 11:39 PM

Thanks for your response and for explaining your extensive experience with PSIP compatibility between the broadcaster and the wide variety of home receiver configurations.

I appreciate your conclusion that the problem lies with the station's PSIP data transmission and not with the Samsung tuners.

Do you think the Station's Engineer has an obligation (legal or other) to troubleshoot this issue until a resolution is found? The Engineer is presently taking the position that it is a known Samsung problem and only Samsung can fix it.

Avio
If the engineer has any "obligation" it would be to the station owners/operators and the viewing public. If your Samsung receiver works fine with the other stations in your area and only has trouble with that one station, that should make the engineer at least question why their PSIP might be different from the others. In some cases here, the engineers found that their PSIP software was at fault and a later revision from their vendor fixed the problem.

My part in testing this was but one single member of a larger, informal team that evolved out of us giving individual feedback. The most recent similar effort actually excluded me because the problem was being experienced only by folks using Comcast Motorola boxes (an audio problem, not a PSIP channel mapping or program guide problem), and I get my HD channels OTA and from DirecTV.

Avio

05-21-07, 11:53 AM

If you can get someone to record the station for about 60 seconds to a ts file and upload it to rapidshare, then we can all look at it with TSreader to see what the PSIP data may have wrong with it.jeff2631: Thanks for your generous offer to examine a TS file clip and attempt to determine why the virtual channel mapping is failing for some of us in my area. I'll first discuss this with the AVS members in the Albuquerque HDTV Thread. I'll let you know if and when I can provide the TS file sample.

The original Samsung HLS5679W HDTV that I purchased in Feb 2007 had a IEEE 1394 Firewire port that output an MPEG-2 Transport Stream. I configured my PC with drivers and software to capture TS files. However, my original set quickly developed a defect, and Samsung replaced it under warranty with a new 2007 Model HLT5689S which lacked Firewire, but had many other improved features. I like the improved features but miss the Firewire.

Does anyone know an inexpensive way of adding Firewire to my configuration? I have 3 HDMI ver. 1.3 ports on my TV and all the various other I/O except Firewire. How can I easily go from the TV's HDMI to Firewire MPEG-2 TS to my PC?

Thanks. Avio

Avio

05-21-07, 02:32 PM

... Does anyone know an inexpensive way of adding Firewire to my configuration? I have 3 HDMI ver. 1.3 ports on my TV and all the various other I/O except Firewire. How can I easily go from the TV's HDMI to Firewire MPEG-2 TS to my PC? ... I think I found the answer to my question in these two posts copied below:

AVS Forum > Industry Area > Firewire 1394 Trade Association Q&A > 1394 to HDMI
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=816949

What about the other way around, HDMI to 1394?Technically possible for unprotected content. But I don't believe that you can decrypt HDCP and then put it over 1394 from a content protection license point of view.Darn HDCP. :( Avio

427

05-21-07, 04:46 PM

Kid Red

05-21-07, 05:06 PM

Scooper

05-21-07, 05:20 PM

Question for someone with a samsung DTB-H260F.When viewing a 1080i upconvert signal from a broadcast station using the composite output feeding a regular 4x3 tv in the zoom mode does the picture maintain the correct aspect ratio ?
It should be the same size as the analog ntsc picture .The older sir-t451 stretched the picture horizontally making everything too wide.The RCA DTC 100 maintained the correct aspect in the zoom mode .

Thanks

I wish !

What you get out out the the composite / s-video outputs is the "full screen", no formatting options whatsoever. So, if you are watching a 4:3 subchannel, everything is OK, but if it is a 16:9 subchannel - you get the 16:9 picture squished into a 4:3 format on the screen, full verticle height. If the channel happens to send a 4:3 program and uses bars - you get the bars and the squished up 4:3 program.

IOW - the only outputs you can do the aspect / formatting things on are the "HDTV" ones (HDMI / Component outputs). Also , all the menu options / signal strength stuff is visible only on the HDTV outputs. If you want the "correct formatting" for a 4:3 screen - you need to find a component to Svideo / composite convertor box. If you can find a nice cheap one that works - let us know...

holl_ands

05-21-07, 09:14 PM

Does anyone know an inexpensive way of adding Firewire to my configuration? I have 3 HDMI ver. 1.3 ports on my TV and all the various other I/O except Firewire. How can I easily go from the TV's HDMI to Firewire MPEG-2 TS to my PC?
Thanks. Avio
The Macro Image Technology (MIT) MDR-200 is the only "halfway affordable"
OTA STB I know of that has Firewire I/F:
http://www.digitalconnection.com/products/video/mdr200.asp
It's been out for several years, so you might find one on fleabay.....

PS: Apparently there is also a MDR-200L model that did NOT list Firewire in the specs....

The Hound

05-21-07, 11:52 PM

jzareski

05-22-07, 12:48 AM

So when cable goes digital in a few months, with this Sammy pick up those signals (which I assume would then be NTSC)? Just trying to figure out if this box is worth giving up my HD cable box for. I don't mind losing some of the 200+ filler channels, but I'd like basic cable at least.

Did your cable company specifically indicate that "when they go digital in a few months" that they were eliminating all the analog channels? Usually they maintain the basic analog tier of the analog OTA channels and analog local / state / federal community service channels.

The "simulcast" SD equivalent of the analog OTA channels and, if provided by your cable company, the DTV OTA channels, are usually provided in open or unencrypted QAM. The Samsung DTB-H260F would decode those.

What the Samsung will no due is analog NTSC and anything encrypted (or scrambled) QAM, including the "Expanded" basic tier (all the Non-OTA channels, the subscription services, pay per view (ON-DEMAND) channels.

And currently, I haven't witness the Samsung internal TV Guide program information work for any cable QAM channel. But it does work with an Antenna for OTA.

Occasionally, depending on the cable system, some "On-Demand" channels may be decoded if not encrypted (or scrambled) QAM.

So if you pay for a cabletv box, the Samsung will not replace it...unless all you want to watch is "basically" the OTA channels the cable system delivers to your home...If you don't have component or HDMI inputs, forget using it.

At that point some may consider trying an antenna and see what they may receive.

Z

Kid Red

05-22-07, 10:05 AM

jzareski- My understanding is when the cable companies go digital, the first 99 analog channels will then be digital. The Sammy does not receive analog signals, so when cable takes 0-99 digital, would the Sammy pick those up?

I know it won't pick up encrypted channels, I want the basic cable that I would get if I ran the cable straight to the TV because I also get OTA HD local channels on my basic cable line. I have a Vizio with QAM/NTSC/ATSC and I can watch basic cable AND HD local channels.

My only option currently is running a cable straight to my TV for basic, and then HDMI from the Sammy. So I would have to switch from air to cable on the TV everytime I wanted to watch HD or basic cable. That's not something I want to do. So, I was wondering if anyone could speculate that the Sammy would pick up the soon to be digital cable channels when the change over is made?

Kid Red

05-22-07, 10:07 AM

I'm not sure what you have asked.
Did you mean ATSC?
The 260 only has an ATSC tuner, it will not get any NTSC signals.
It will pick up all unencrypted ATSC channels through QAM.

Forgive me, I always stumble over NTSC vs ATSC. I want to know if the Sammy will pick up the cable channels that will soon be digital as I understand it? RIght now basic cable is analog and the Sammy does not have an analog tuner. However, understanding cable channels 0-99 will soon be digital, am I right to assume a possibility that the Sammy may then pick up the cable channels with it's digital tuner?

vincentnyc

05-22-07, 10:09 AM

... I have a Vizio with QAM/NTSC/ATSC and I can watch basic cable AND HD local channels....

correct me if im wrong...u have a tv that has QAM and u are a cable subcriber and watching hd program with ur vizio tv? so why the hell u even bought a sammy hdtv tuner in the first place? sammy tuner is for ppl like me where our tv doesnt a QAM tuner. i hate to tell u..u just wasted $200.

Scooper

05-22-07, 11:33 AM

Kid Red

05-22-07, 02:38 PM

correct me if im wrong...u have a tv that has QAM and u are a cable subcriber and watching hd program with ur vizio tv? so why the hell u even bought a sammy hdtv tuner in the first place? sammy tuner is for ppl like me where our tv doesnt a QAM tuner. i hate to tell u..u just wasted $200.

Ah, for another TV I have without a QAM tuner? haha

Kid Red

05-22-07, 02:41 PM

Kid red - what do you mean by "Basic Cable" ?

If you mean "local channels only" - sure the Sammy will do what you want - and so will any other QAM cable tuner (including the ones built into TVs). If you mean channels like Discovery, CNN, Weather, Cartoon, FX, etc - I highly doubt that anything other than the cable company's digital cable box will be able to decode (well - IF they offer cable card, AND your TV can take cable card ).

K, so my TV can decode the basic cable signal but the Sammy can not? CNN, TNT, ESPN, etc, that comes straight off the cable line. I want local OTA HD + basic cable on my bedroom TV and was hoping the Sammy would allow me that. However, since I didn't know about the lack of NTSC, I'm trying to figure out f I can still use it for my needs or just keep the $6 a month cable box I was hoping to replace.

Scooper

05-22-07, 03:05 PM

K, so my TV can decode the basic cable signal but the Sammy can not? CNN, TNT, ESPN, etc, that comes straight off the cable line. I want local OTA HD + basic cable on my bedroom TV and was hoping the Sammy would allow me that. However, since I didn't know about the lack of NTSC, I'm trying to figure out f I can still use it for my needs or just keep the $6 a month cable box I was hoping to replace.

Again - define what you are trying to accomplish.

The Samsung does NOT have a analog cable ready tuner. (need a VCR/DVR with a analog cable tuner for this one)
The only digital (QAM) signals it can do are the unencrypted ones (usually just the local channels). It could also do the broadcast ATSC channels that you would receive via OTA antenna.

IF (and that's a BIG if) your local cable company sends "cable channels" digital signals in unencrypted QAM (and you can test this with the Samsung) - THEN you might be able to return your digital cable box.

Kid Red

05-22-07, 03:27 PM

Again - define what you are trying to accomplish.

The Samsung does NOT have a analog cable ready tuner. (need a VCR/DVR with a analog cable tuner for this one)
The only digital (QAM) signals it can do are the unencrypted ones (usually just the local channels). It could also do the broadcast ATSC channels that you would receive via OTA antenna.

IF (and that's a BIG if) your local cable company sends "cable channels" digital signals in unencrypted QAM (and you can test this with the Samsung) - THEN you might be able to return your digital cable box.

I am wanting to get local cable that comes thru the cable line, or basic cable, and the local HD OTA channels to my TV. I figured having the QAM tuner would do this, however, I am only getting the local channels over the cable line. I now realize that to be due to the lack of analog tuner in the Sammy. So my question then is, when cable takes it's analog channels to digital format, will the Sammy THEN be able to receive the basic cable channels? Or will this Sammy never be able to pass thru the cable channels that my TV would get with the cable running straight to the TV?

Scooper

05-22-07, 04:09 PM

holl_ands

05-22-07, 04:58 PM

PS: The LOCAL, Educational and Govt cable channels "should" be unencrypted....

However, since the expanded tier (e.g. CH20-99) is an extra cost option, it will probably be encrypted.

CableCARD and two-way MCARD enabled STB's should start to appear in retail stores
sometime this summer.....

Or get an STB from the cable company....

At least the Samsung can receive OTA HD channels....

Kid Red

05-22-07, 06:39 PM

Kid Red - you can't read. My previous posts have answered your questions precisely.

1. The Samsung will NEVER tune analog cable (however- it passes it through to other TV reception devices - it even amplifies the signal a bit to make up for it's insertion loss. The analog cable will pass right through the Samsung unchanged - as will any QAM signals).

2. The Samsung will NEVER tune ENCRYPTED, QAM digital cable signals. It will, however, be able to tune UNENCRYPTED QAM digital cable signals.

SO, the question YOU need to ask YOUR LOCAL CABLE PROVIDER, is how are they going to send the "cable channels" (encrypted or unencrypted QAM) when they shut off the analog cable channels.

You can't read. You asked me to define what I wanted to do and that's exactly what I did. No need to be snippish about it, just be clear when you ask a question not to respond to the answer in such a manner.

I understand the Sammy will not tune analog channels, we've more than established that. If you are saying that once those analog channels go digital that they would be encrypted where my TV could display the direct digital signal but not the Sammy, then I need to return the Sammy.

Scooper

05-22-07, 07:12 PM

Actually - your TV won't be able to either unless
1. your TV has support for CableCard
and
2. Your cable provider is supporting it as well.

So you will probably be stuck using either the cable company's STB OR buying another STB that will support a new version of cablecard coming out (that is bi-directional). And this is assuming (again) that your cable provider will be supporting that new cablecard standard.

And I'll answer in any tone I want to people who can't be bothered to think for themselves. And who can't be bothered to do any further research.

jzareski

05-22-07, 10:51 PM

Kid Red:

How about this:
Currently as you verified, you receive analog cable TV channels 1-99 as indicated on you analog TV set that has a built in NTSC tuner.

Cable companies sometimes divided those analog NTSC channels (1-125) into:
#1 - A "Basic" tier that only offers the analog local OTA channels plus maybe some educational, local and government access channels.
#2 - An "Expanded Basic" tier that may have included all the non OTA analog channels.

The Samsung DTB-H260F will not receive those.

Cable companies sometimes divided the digital QAM channels (1-135) into:
#3 - Open (Unencrypted, Unscrambled, etc...) QAM tier (Usually included as part of basic service).

Depending on the cable tv company usually includes some standard definition (SD) simulcasts of the #1 analog tier noted above AND, some local OTA DTV channels which may be HD and or SD.

This is what your Digital Cable Ready TV or the Samsung DTB-H260F STB receives without a cable card or digital HD or SD cable tv set top box.

These are usually displayed, depending on DCR / STB as major-minor channels or three digit channels.

#4 - Closed (encrypted, scrambled, etc...) QAM tiers add the subscription services including pay-per-view, ON-Demand, etc...AND all the non OTA digital HD packages.

This is what your Digital Cable Ready TV receives with a cable card or a digital HD or SD cable tv set top box. Pay-per-view usually requires 2-way cable tv STB.

These are usually displayed, depending on DCR / STB as three digit channels.

The Samsung DTB-H260F will not receive those. It will indicate "scrambled channel".

Final note, some viewers using QAM STBs, noted receiving some random On-Demand channels, HD and or SD on occasion. Some systems don't always encrypt the On-Demand channels...but they come and go as your neighbors subscribe and watch them.

Note. The Samsung DTB-H260F TV guide and signal strenght functions appear only to operate on antenna receiving OTA DTV channels, as cable tv systems are not yet passing all the broadcasters PSIP information...

I hope that clears up any confusion on all our parts...

DonB2

05-23-07, 11:58 AM

For the second time I have found my Samsung powered down and I did not turn it off. Not sure if a stray IR signal is getting to it or not.

It is not the included remote which I do not even use as I programmed another universal remote which I did not even set up with power discrete.

-DonB2

Kid Red

05-23-07, 12:48 PM

Scooper- I am here doing the research, seriously man, lol

jzareski- Thanks for breaking it down in great detail. I guess I'm mostly disappointed the Sammy can't do what my other Vizio LCD can do without any stb. I had hoped the Sammy would act in that same capacity for my Panny LCD that lacks a QAM tuner but has a digital tuner.

It's lack of analog tuner are my issues I gather or is it simply the product limits?. Would another tuner with QAM/ATSC/NTSC give me what I want?

DonB2

05-23-07, 02:02 PM

"I am wanting to get local cable that comes thru the cable line, or basic cable, and the local HD OTA channels to my TV. I figured having the QAM tuner would do this, however, I am only getting the local channels over the cable line. I now realize that to be due to the lack of analog tuner in the Sammy. So my question then is, when cable takes it's analog channels to digital format, will the Sammy THEN be able to receive the basic cable channels? Or will this Sammy never be able to pass thru the cable channels that my TV would get with the cable running straight to the TV?"

It is just odd that one can get lots of analog cable channels with no special encryption box. But once Cable does away with the analog channels the homeowner will be required to rent or purchase a cable box to view these digital but not HD channels encrypted channels.

Granted the homeowner will be still able to watch all the locals and PBS types fro free over digital cable but all the other channels they were analog available without a box will now no longer be available on the tv in the den.

Sort of a trade off. Presently you can have 5 tv's in the house all getting the basic analog cable which is around 50 or so channels just with Coax . But once analog cable is dropped you will need cable boxes to view the digital equivalents.

-DonB2

Scooper

05-23-07, 02:05 PM

It's called "content protection".

dbsc

05-23-07, 02:18 PM

It's called "content protection".
I think what he was getting at was there wasn't any protection on those analog stations previously though, and things were working pretty well like that. After they're digital-only we won't be able to hook up an extra TV to the cable line to watch basic cable anymore without renting another box from them to do so.

To me that sounds more like strangleholding than content protection.

Scooper

05-23-07, 03:28 PM

Hence - the quote (") content protection endquote ("). Basically - I see a day when all non-lifeline cable is going to be protected QAM. The "lifeline" may stay as unprotected QAM (after OTA analog shutdown).

DrBri99

05-23-07, 04:41 PM

Have any major cable companies announced a switch to digital cable only (box required even for basic)?

And just to stay on topic, any word of a firmware upgrade for the DTB-H260F, or a newer model?

Scooper

05-23-07, 04:48 PM

Have any major cable companies announced a switch to digital cable only (box required even for basic)?

And just to stay on topic, any word of a firmware upgrade for the DTB-H260F, or a newer model?

I believe there has been at least one system - maybe in the Chicago area ? - but I'm not positive on that.

Haven't heard anything about a F/W upgrade either.

DonB2

05-23-07, 05:20 PM

" believe there has been at least one system - maybe in the Chicago area ? - but I'm not positive on that."

Wasn't it Comcast?

And yes you guys made since of my rambling paragraph about analog free vs digital free.

-DonB2

holl_ands

05-23-07, 05:47 PM

Have any major cable companies announced a switch to digital cable only (box required even for basic)?

COMCAST in Chicago is reportedly ALL digital:
http://www.suntimes.com/business/330445,CST-FIN-cable06.article
I've also seen other local threads hinting that more areas will follow soon...

TWC in Staten Island and Queens have eliminated "expanded" analog channels:
http://multichannel.com/article/CA6435282.html
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10384238&highlight=staten#post10384238

with others expected to follow this year and next:
http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6421103.html

Many MSO's still say they will retain a much smaller number of analog channels....
so they don't have to deploy STB's for 2nd, 3rd & 4th TVs just for local channels....

Scooper

05-23-07, 06:28 PM

That's sort of my thought on it as well - analog will pretty soon be just "Lifeline" service.

jzareski

05-24-07, 01:05 AM

DonB2

05-24-07, 09:43 AM

jzareski ,

My Pioneer PDP 43 has the wrong format to receive the free cable digital channels.

I remember the days of the UHF tube converter STB. Ours was used and the Brown Bakelite case had a huge chunk out of 1 corner.

I was forever repairing the 300 ohm flat ribbon that would break just looking at it.

Sure was irritating if it broke just before Lost in Space when I had already filled by bowl of rice crispies with milk :mad:

-DonB2

Brad Bishop

05-24-07, 11:00 AM

I just picked up the Samsung STB. I'm pretty happy with it. Once in a while it seems to get confused and shut itself off - that'd be my only complaint.

I just subscribe to basic (limited/local) channels and my HDTV-Ready set was lacking a tuner. Up until recently I was just using the cable box from the cable company. I got tired of paying $90+/month for, effectively, basic-expanded cable (plus HDTV - no premiums) so I gave the cables boxes back and picked up 2 of these. They work great. I can get my local channels through the cable company in HD and I'm all set.

It is dumb how confusing all of the HDTV stuff is, though. The different broadcast formats, encrypted/non-encrypted, cable card (1.0/2.0/etc.), recording flags, resolutions, input types, etc.

It seems like we should have been progressing towards something more advanced and simpler. Instead the consumer has all of this extra stuff to figure out now.

I'm glad my box works and I can get local HD channels but even then I had to delete a crazy number of channels (blanks, mostly - I assume reserved for on-demand) to get it down to watchable channels. It's also kind of dumb that, while some of the channels made sense in their location, others seemed to be just randomly assigned a channel/sub number.

In Atlanta, WSB-TV is (QAM) 2-1 off Comcast. This makes sense as they are channel 2. WXIA, Channel 11, is 11-1, which also makes sense. TBS, though is 17-1 but there's another 17-1 right after it (which is the correct channel). The first 17-1 is dead. The local Fox channel (CH 5) is out around around 95-something and it just gets worse from there. Channel 10 is 103-something. I don't get why they didn't just line them up to their broadcast channel numbers to eliminate some of the confusion.

holl_ands

05-24-07, 03:33 PM

I think all the previous responses somes it up well.

In the analog OTA vhf pre-uhf and cable tv days, channels 1 through 13 existed. 1 was taken away, later uhf was added by means of a uhf stb, then new tvs included vhf & uhf ("U82" channel) tuners.

Analog cable tv came along providing only 13 channels, then some uhf and it was soon realised uhf didn't work all that well due to cable losses. Hence some dual cable tv systems were built with "A / B" switches, but too expansive to maintain. Then mid-band and super-band cable tv was added that operated between vhf 13 and uhf 14 and stbs were required again to receive those channels.

Cycle repeats and new tvs include analog OTA 2-82 and analog cable tv 1-125 channels.

Then digital cable tv came along. But wait, cable tv implemented a digital system well prior to the FCC deciding on an OTA dtv system. Cable tv added QAM 1-135 channels, and once again a stb was required to receive those channels.

Cycle repeats and new tvs include analog OTA 2-82, analog cable tv 1-125 and digital cable tv unencrypted QAM 1-135 channels.

Then FCC decides on an digital OTA ATSC (8VSB) system.

Cycle repeats and new tvs may include analog OTA 2-82, analog cable tv 1-125, digital cable tv unencrypted QAM 1-135 channels and finally(?) digital OTA ATSC tuners.

But cable tv, keeping the upper hand added encrypted subscription services, pay per view and or On-Demand channels requiring either a cablecard (currently one-way) and stbs (2-way) for On-Demand.

Cycle repeats and new tvs and ancillary devices (DVRs?) may include DCR (digital cable ready) cablecard slots.

But wait there's more. Verizon is building fiber to the home in some lucky areas of the country. And you need a stb for all sets as no tv or stb has a GigE fiber interface...yet(?). How cool would that be getting away from rf totally and going IPoGigE only to a router in your house, and no longer be bothered with stbs. It's all IP....with full functionally between devices...

And the Samsung DTB-H260F ONLY includes a digital OTA ATSC 1-125 and digital cable tv unencrypted QAM 1-135 tuners...with only one RF input!!! ugh...
There's more coming......

To fix the failed one-way CableCARD problems (just over 200K deployed in all of USA),
new HDTV/DVR/STBs will download OCAP "middleware" from cable headend
to use the two-way capable MCARD (CableCARD-II)....with all new IPGs......

After a year (or two) sorting this out, DCAS may become available instead of the hassle
of managing MCARDs.....stand by for periodic security...and IPG revisions.....

When you buy one of these new highly integrated HDTV/DVR/STBs,
make sure that it has MPEG4 and VC-1 capabilities....
cuz you're probably gonna need it for Cable, OTA and direct download via I-N.

Cable announced long term plans for MPEG4 IPTV that replaces/supplements VOD.
Perhaps to view the greatly expanded cable VOD services ("ala carte" programs),
but also so viewers can grab programs directly off individual "originator" servers.
In the long term, they may drop the low performing MPEG2 completely....

The new and improved OTA ATSC (specs being worked at ATSC) will
deliver some programs (& HD-DVD movies?) via MPEG4 and/or VC-1 sub-channels.

The trend is to integrate ALL of these functions (including SAT) into the
Home Entertainment Center, which should help to eliminate a bunch of
individual boxes and simplify the Remote Control problem.....

PS: Not to forget the new and improved secure digital interfaces (beyond HDMI v.1.3),
to the display device.....including wireless and/or coax and/or via powerline
interconnection "SYSTEMS" that automatically announce and configure devices
and associated Universal Remote Control systems......

Budget_HT

05-24-07, 03:44 PM

There's more coming......
The new and improved OTA ATSC (specs being worked at ATSC) will
deliver some programs (& HD-DVD movies?) via MPEG4 and/or VC-1 sub-channels.
......
Do you have a web-based source of this information handy that could be shared here? TIA

DonB2

05-24-07, 04:02 PM

"Originally Posted by holl_ands
There's more coming......
The new and improved OTA ATSC (specs being worked at ATSC) will
deliver some programs (& HD-DVD movies?) via MPEG4 and/or VC-1 sub-channels.
...... "

"Do you have a web-based source of this information handy that could be shared here? TIA"

I second that. This is the first I have heard of ATSC going to MPEG4.

I can see Dish or Sat doing it as they more or less supply the receivers. But for people receiving free OTA via ATSC MPEG2- At least I think that is what the compression scheme is presently- this could be a major expense.

Plus of course all the broadcast stations would have to get MPEG4 capable equipment.

Maybe ten years from now but I think the public would not be happy to see it happen over the next couple of years.

-DonB2

bigpoppa206

05-24-07, 06:30 PM

When you buy one of these new highly integrated HDTV/DVR/STBs, make sure that it has MPEG4 and VC-1 capabilities....
cuz you're probably gonna need it for Cable, OTA and direct download via I-N.

Would be wonderful and a step in the right direction towards less macro-blocking by incorporating MPEG4 or H264 instead of the current MPEG2!

R Johnson

05-24-07, 07:48 PM

The new and improved OTA ATSC (specs being worked at ATSC) will deliver some programs (& HD-DVD movies?) via MPEG4 and/or VC-1 sub-channels.
At the cost of taking away substantial bandwidth from what we have today. Our shiny new H260F boxes will not receive any "new and improved" signals. Nor will the ATSC tuners in all those new TVs.... From what I read, the proposed changes are mostly to permit mobile reception.

jzareski

05-24-07, 11:10 PM

And for OTA DTV, the FCC didn't decide on a formate, so many current OTA sets and stbs are built to receive MPeg2 formats and are not currently firmware upgradable.

OTA DTV should have been designed as an agnostic IP data pipe. The home DTV / STB decoder(s) would be independently chosen by user preferences...

It would have been better when OTA DTV was being proposed to have software decoder formats that was driving the computer industry, allowing the "seamless" upgrade from format to format, like MS Media, RealVideo, QT, Shockwave, etc...allowing the viewer to chose what decoder they where happy with.

...we'll just update with a "free" download...

IMOO

kb7oeb

05-25-07, 12:28 AM

All ATSC tuners support mpeg2, I'm tired of this 18 formats line. Its 18 combinations of resolution,refresh and interlaced or not. Its not like there are 18 different codecs.

IP makes little sense in a one way pipe, I can't think of what you would gain.

STBs have no where near as much processing power as a computer and can't process codecs it doesn't have hardware decoders for.

Back in the 80s the FCC couldn't decide what system to use to add Stereo to AM radio. The FCC allowed two formats to compete and we ended up with neither.

holl_ands

05-25-07, 01:55 AM

ATSC Candidate STD for AVC (H.264/MPEG4 Part 10) and VC-1 (MS WMV-HD):
http://www.atsc.org/standards/candidate_standards.html

E-VSB moduation (with AVC and VC-1) is already defined.
A-VSB and/or MPH (Mobile, Pedestrian, Handheld) specs are being staffed at ATSC,
but not yet released to public....

I saw A-VSB (with H.264 AVC) demo at NAB2006 (see my post in "5th Gen ATSC Receiver" thread):
http://www.tvtechnology.com/pages/s.0001/t.1097.html

but missed the MPH demo in April at NAB2007:
http://broadcastengineering.com/RF/mph-a-vsb-mobile-dtv-0503/
http://www.eetimes.com/press_releases/prnewswire/showPressRelease.jhtml;jsessionid=3DVUZXAS4M3Q4QSNDLRCKH0CJU NN2JVN?articleID=X607647&CompanyId=1&printable=true
http://www.harris.com/view_pressrelease.asp?act=lookup&pr_id=2105
http://www.broadcast.harris.com/collateral/whitepapers/MPH-MobileTV.pdf

Mobile (backset nannys) and handheld (to watch while at the ballpark???) are some applications....
And office workers keeping up with soaps & sports.....
But I'm skeptical re bus (how many would pay?) and subway (below ground?) riders....

But it's simply a delivery mechanism that is supposed to actually reach into apartments
condos and office buildings.....
Such as to your laptop (or home server) to receive (encrypted?) HD-DVD programs....or whatever....
Hmmm, might be a viable product....except for I-N/Wi-Max/MediaFlo competition....

The Networks only occupy a small number of DTV channels....and after Feb2009,
lots of transmitter channels (and even "excess" transmitters) will become even more available.

There will be no shortage of OTA capacity....for a variety of "stuff"....
Try to bear in mind that today nearly all stations are running dual transmitters.....
and DTV permits some smaller stations to share the same channel.....

Primary question will be whether any of these new schemes make a decent profit.....

BTW: These have always been discussed as additional sub-channels,
supplementing the primary MPEG2 ATSC primary channel....

R Johnson

05-25-07, 10:02 AM

Budget_HT

05-25-07, 02:51 PM

holl_ands,

Thanks for the links!

holl_ands

05-25-07, 07:15 PM

holl_ands, You seem to paint a rosy picture of the future with the proposed ATSC "enhancements". This seems to be a minority view. Many around here complain that the HD image quality has deteriorated as stations have added SD sub channels. When NBC here in Chicago asks the FCC for another channel and receives a "Sure thing" response, I shall be most surprised.
When analog channels are shut down, I would be surprised if "something" didn't fill the voids....

BTW: The FCC is primarily (only?) interested in ensuring that station assignments
don't adversely interfere with each other....so using vacated analog and digital
(e.g. UHF vacated when moved to VHF) assignments are "low-risk" to begin with....

============================
I'm not the painter....just disseminating what I read....[GIGO]....
But surely you realize the station owners are going to try to maximize their profits......

The Harris MPH Brochure discusses data rate issues, presuming 15 Mbps for Primary....
which is ballpark for ESPN-HD, ABC-HD and FOX-HD on DirecTV (all 720p HD-Lite):
http://www.widemovies.com/dfwbitrate.html

And barely meets the CableLabs "safe harbor" definition for HD (whatever THAT means):
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/01/31/cablelabs-names-15mbps-as-safe-harbor-bitrate-for-mpeg2-hd-vod/

On 31Jan2007, in hdtv.forsandiego.com, Michael Scott reported long term measurements
for OTA CBS-HD (1080i, no subchannels), was typically 13 Mbps, with up to 16 Mbps
during football. This is significantly less than reported for DFW.....so go figure....

On 14Sep2006, Michael Scott reported that NBC-HD (1080i, weather subchannel)
was usually running 15 Mbps, with some shows (e.g. VEGAS) at 17+ Mbps.

============================
Note that it is difficult to compare just bitrates (we measure long term average
whereas the REAL limit is max peak of 19.39 Mbps over the GOP encoding period).
A STATMUX will "steal" bits from the other subchannels when there is a
burst of activity on the primary channel.....and vice versa....so macroblocks
only occur those times when the PEAK bitrate requirements are unfulfilled.

Newer MPEG2 encoders and STATMUXes are also reportedly more efficient
than earlier designs.....Delivering better "quality" with lower bitrates....

And of course, new STATMUXes will need to deal with a mixture of MPEG2 and MPEG4.

jzareski

05-26-07, 12:16 AM

Local OTA PBS in CT transmits one 1080i HD at 17.5 Mbps, no sub-channels.

Avio

05-26-07, 02:27 PM

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10578689&&#post10578689

Restatement Summary of the Issue:
I get excellent quality Over-The-Air, via roof antenna, reception on all the major network stations in my area... excellent signal strength too. But I can only receive NBC programming on Channel 26-3 and I get no PSIP (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10450292&highlight=psip+virtual&&#post10450292) Information (i.e. No Programming Info, Scheduling Info, Station Identification, etc.). My Samsung LED HLT TV does not "map" Channel 26-3 to its correct Virtual (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10450292&highlight=psip+virtual&&#post10450292) Channel 4-1. On two occasions in the past the mapping worked correctly and I did receive NBC on 4-1; but, in each case, the mapping dropped out and NBC was back on 26-3. I have tried deleting channels and adding channels.Last night the problem spontaneously resolved (again). I was watching KOB's local news at 6 PM. I noticed when I returned to my set (Samsung HLT5689S) that my built-in ATSC tuner had automatically tuned to 4-1 and my TV's Channel Manager had automatically deleted 26-3 & 26-4 and had automatically added Virtual Channels 4-1 & 4-2. I get full PSIP Info on 4-1. :cool: :D :cool:

Now to see if this good change sticks or not... :rolleyes:

I'm hoping the problem is solved permanently.

I think this proves that the problem was the Station's PSIP data and not a Samsung tuner problem. Perhaps Samsungs adhere more strictly to the PSIP data format rules than other tuners.

Thanks again to jeff2631, Budget_HT and others in this Samsung Tuner Thread who responded with help.

Avio

drinklime

05-30-07, 04:15 PM

can I use a harmony 659 with this box?

Avio

05-30-07, 05:45 PM

can I use a harmony 659 with this box?Yes.

... If you have a Universal Remote with on-line download capability (e.g. Harmony, MX-series, etc)
simply download H260F codes..... Avio

Avio

05-30-07, 05:51 PM

I'm hoping the problem is solved permanently.

I think this proves that the problem was the Station's PSIP data and not a Samsung tuner problem. Perhaps Samsungs adhere more strictly to the PSIP data format rules than other tuners.Update & Follow-up:

I would personally lean toward a Samsung issue. The strictness of Samsung is probably a data parsing issue and you'll never see Samsung do an update so that leaves the responsibility on the broadcasters. Sorry I just don't trust manufactures to believe they don't have issues like this. Who knows.

Anyways, my Samsung is now showing KOB on 4-1 and 4-2.I called back the Chief Engineer at the Station today and reported that NM Samsung owners, including myself, noticed that the Virtual Channel Mapping was fixed on Friday late afternoon, 5/25/07. He said he and his staff had been "working on it" [the Samsung problem] and fixed it by substituting a "piece of equipment" into his system. He said that the equipment change was not related to PSIP. The Engineer said that his Station Samsung ATSC receiver in-house showed the fix with the equipment change and showed the problem when the old equipment was put back into the chain. He still believes that Samsungs have a defect in handling PSIP data.

Avio

holl_ands

05-30-07, 06:12 PM

can I use a harmony 659 with this box?
1. If you had done a tread search for "harmony", you would have found
several people who successfully use various Harmony remotes....
PS: Most popular models use same code database.

2. Since the Harmony remotes have learning capabilities, any user can
"learn" IR codes from nearly any odd-ball remote control device and submit them
to Logitech for inclusion in the Harmony database so everyone can use them.....

3. If motivated early adopters were doing their part to update the database,
when you go to Harmony website to setup your remote, you should find DTB-H260F.

Let's leave this last step as an exercise for the student....
Cuz I don't have the H260F.....

drinklime

05-30-07, 07:15 PM

Yep, i signed up on the Harmony website, and it lets you run a "test drive" of setting the remote, and the H260F was listed. I didnt realize users could add to the database. Pretty cool!

drinklime

06-01-07, 12:40 AM

um, i just wanted to make note of this... the channel just changed by itself

fku

06-01-07, 08:22 PM

um, i just wanted to make note of this... the channel just changed by itself

my first 260f had that problem, and soon after that, it lost all call signs on all the channels and then timing display for each channel went random.

i returned it.

drinklime

06-01-07, 10:35 PM

well... today i just started to lose a bunch of my local channels... but I am using it for QAM so I'm not sure if Brighthouse is doing it... but im getting nervous
----------------
jeeze, its been 3 hours already? I've been fiddling with my box (reprogramming channels and such) and the channels (all subchannels of 106) just came back. Do you guys think its my box or my cable provider? I'm getting close to the 30 days for a return.

bigpoppa206

06-04-07, 09:17 PM

Scooper

06-04-07, 10:03 PM

From what I've read on AVSForums - probably the provider. They're doing this to "encourage" you to get one of their STBs (at extra cost, of course) for the convience of not having to worry about this kind of situation.

ghken

06-11-07, 09:17 AM

Has anyone successfully setup the Samsung STB as the video source for a Series 2 Tivo?

I thought I had read that the IR codes were the same as the Samsung satellite receiver, but when I went through Tivo's guided setup and got to the step of testing the Tivo changing the channels on the Samsung STB via the IR emitters, I had no luck. So at the moment I have to manually tune the Samsung to the appropriate channel in order to record.

I know there are workarounds for this - programmable remote with timer, using the Samsung's limited built in timer function - but all of these nullify the beauty of Tivo, and the family would definitely object.

If I hear that others have had success then I'll know that something is wrong on my end and I'll give it another try.

rpearlberg

06-11-07, 09:21 AM

kb7oeb

06-11-07, 10:51 PM

bigpoppa206

06-12-07, 03:03 AM

I'm selling mine if anyone is interested....works great, doesn't have a remote though...so you'll either need to find a remote for it, or if you have a samsung tv you can program you're remote for it...
PM me if you're interested...
That would be a newer Samsung set I am assuming. I have a TX-R2678WH and never could find a way to program the remote for the TV to run the STB.

JB2007

06-12-07, 02:26 PM

fku

06-12-07, 07:47 PM

Has anyone successfully setup the Samsung STB as the video source for a Series 2 Tivo?

i have tried and have not suceeded in getting the two of them to work. the tivo has its own ways of controllling channel ups and downs and they just don't seem to have the right code for the samsung.

if anyone has a solution, please let me know. thanks.

kbgl

06-13-07, 12:35 PM

The owners manual states that the resolution switch is for the component output.

I may want to use the HDMI connection to my projector, but was wondering if the output resolution can be manually set.

bcarlsen

06-13-07, 05:19 PM

I just read that part of the manual and I think it's misleading. I'm using the HDMI connection and the resolution switch works.

kbgl

06-13-07, 06:06 PM

I just read that part of the manual and I think it's misleading. I'm using the HDMI connection and the resolution switch works.

I may have to buy a cable and try HDMI with the projector. I may also use the component connections to a DVD recorder.

Anyone have an idea how durable the switches are if they get used once or twice a day? They look like they were meant to be used just at initial setup.

bigpoppa206

06-13-07, 06:54 PM

I have the DTB-H260F (for OTA reception) hooked up to an Onkyo TX-SR605 via HDMI, and then from the 605 to a Vizio VP42, again via HDMI. I have the setting in the back of the DTB-H260F set to 1080i. My question is, is the DTB-H260F upconverting and or upscaling to 1080i? Because if I press the info button on the Vizio it says "1080i" on all channels no matter what resolution. Now if I hook up the DTB-H260F to the Vizio directly, the Vizio displays the transmitted resolution 480i/p, 720p, or 1080 i.

If the DTB-H260F is upconverting, is the "upconverter/upscaler" a good one, or should I set the DTB-H260F to something else and let the Vizio/Onkyo do upconverting?

BTW, even though the Vizio picks up HDTV channels on its own, the DTB-H260F is a bit more sensitive and pulls in more channels OTA than the Vizio's built in tuner.
AFAIK the DTB-H260F is not converting anything. PS: I think you are supposed to set the output of the DTB to the highest setting of the 3 that your TV will handle. With the DTB hooked up to the Vizio, you are still getting the "480i/p, 720p, or 1080i" readings from the box, not from the set. Sounds like the box is showing you what is being transmitted whereas the set is showing you what the resolution is set at. Or maybe I'm drunk! :)

bcarlsen

06-13-07, 07:32 PM

Anyone have an idea how durable the switches are if they get used once or twice a day? They look like they were meant to be used just at initial setup.
Why do you plan on changing the resolution so frequently? The switches seem pretty durable. I think they just make them manual switches (as opposed to menu settings) so that you don't set a resolution that your tv can't handle, making it impossible to switch the resolution back.

Scooper

06-13-07, 07:33 PM

It sounds like to me that the Onkyo is doing the upconversion, then passing the 1080i signal to the Vizio.

I'll re-read my Samsung manual tomorrow to see what it says about the switch and HDMI , if anything.

dbsc

06-13-07, 09:09 PM

The manual describes the switch as being for the component out, but doesn't specifically exclude HDMI.. which doesn't tell us anything for sure.

I tried to attach the manual, but it's size (9.8MB) apparently was too much for the board to handle, I got an unrelated error about the thread being archived. :/

kbgl

06-13-07, 09:20 PM

Why do you plan on changing the resolution so frequently? The switches seem pretty durable. I think they just make them manual switches (as opposed to menu settings) so that you don't set a resolution that your tv can't handle, making it impossible to switch the resolution back.

I have to set the output to 480i when I want to record from the component output.

If I want to watch live TV from the HDMI output, I need to throw the switch from component to HDMI, and probably switch the resolution as well.

I have two tuners. One is an LG3510A. It has switches on the front panel. Either of the tuners can be used for the recorder or projector if I buy enough cables, but I have to throw switches unless one is dedicated for recording, and the other for live viewing. The Samsung is a better tuner and I would prefer to use it most of the time. I don't have an HDMI cable yet for the Samsung. The LG uses a DVI cable. I would also like to move the LG to a second tv in another room, and leave the Samsung with the projector and recorder.

Too many TVs and options :)

The Hound

06-13-07, 10:42 PM

I have to set the output to 480i when I want to record from the component output.

If I want to watch live TV from the HDMI output, I need to throw the switch from component to HDMI, and probably switch the resolution as well.

I have two tuners. One is an LG3510A. It has switches on the front panel. Either of the tuners can be used for the recorder or projector if I buy enough cables, but I have to throw switches unless one is dedicated for recording, and the other for live viewing. The Samsung is a better tuner and I would prefer to use it most of the time. I don't have an HDMI cable yet for the Samsung. The LG uses a DVI cable. I would also like to move the LG to a second tv in another room, and leave the Samsung with the projector and recorder.

Too many TVs and options :)
The Svideo connecetion is always live at 480i on the h260f.
So you can just use the Svideo connection to your recorder and you can leave the switch on 1080i.

jeff2631

06-14-07, 12:47 AM

Price is lower at Circuit City now. $165.99 Wonder how much lower it will go.

wildwillie6

06-14-07, 07:28 AM

I have this box (Samsung DTB-H260F) and it's just great -- best receiver among my four (don't ask). Now, surely Samsung can take this wonderful circuitry and put it into some other products -- maybe even a DVD recorder?

kbgl

06-14-07, 08:43 AM

The Svideo connecetion is always live at 480i on the h260f.
So you can just use the Svideo connection to your recorder and you can leave the switch on 1080i.

Recordings from component look much better than S-video. Also, the menu and guide is not available on s-video.

Scooper

06-14-07, 10:06 AM

Ok - just re-read the manual - the resolution select is ONLY for the component outputs - not the HDMI ones. Without realizing it, I confirmed that by hooking up my wife's LCD display with a HDMI/DVI cable and HD was viewable (after switching to the HDMI from component).

Scooper

06-14-07, 10:09 AM

Also, the menu and guide is not available on s-video.

Yeah, one of the few things Samsung screwed up on this box. The other was not having any aspect control on the NTSC outputs. - I've been considering one of these http://svideo.com/appletv2tv.html to see if that would work. It's much cheaper than other component to Svideo adapters I've seen.

SWHouston

06-14-07, 10:44 AM

This info may have been posted before, but anyway.....

Info Sheet:
http://www.samsung.com/Products/DigitalSetTopBox/HDTVTuners/DTB_H260FXAA.asp
Ops Manual:
http://www.google.com/search?query=DTB-H260F_om.pdf

Adobe ".pdf" Reader (if you don't already have it).
http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html

Have a good Day ! :)

bcarlsen

06-14-07, 10:45 PM

Ok - just re-read the manual - the resolution select is ONLY for the component outputs - not the HDMI ones.
This is not true. As I stated earlier in this thread, I am using the HDMI connection and the resolution switch does work. The user's manual is misleading.

gtgray

06-14-07, 11:40 PM

I have the DTB-H260F (for OTA reception) hooked up to an Onkyo TX-SR605 via HDMI, and then from the 605 to a Vizio VP42, again via HDMI. I have the setting in the back of the DTB-H260F set to 1080i. My question is, is the DTB-H260F upconverting and or upscaling to 1080i? Because if I press the info button on the Vizio it says "1080i" on all channels no matter what resolution. Now if I hook up the DTB-H260F to the Vizio directly, the Vizio displays the transmitted resolution 480i/p, 720p, or 1080 i.

If the DTB-H260F is upconverting, is the "upconverter/upscaler" a good one, or should I set the DTB-H260F to something else and let the Vizio/Onkyo do upconverting?

BTW, even though the Vizio picks up HDTV channels on its own, the DTB-H260F is a bit more sensitive and pulls in more channels OTA than the Vizio's built in tuner.

I know this may seem confusing but yes... the 260F upscales all content to 1080i even over HDMI if that is where the switch is set. Which is my major grip against it and also the Proband 3150 Plus which I think is really an earlier OEM version of the Samsung. The scaling would be a plus if it wasn't so poorly done. But the 260F is nice if a bit oversharpened at 1080i. I fooled with it a little bit and the QAM on the Samsung on s 1080i source at its best approached OTA using my local cable provider feed through the Panny Tuner.

Sadly there are way too many mpeg artifacts though when the screen is filled with motion. It actually produces a better 1080i from over the air than my 58" Panny does internally... that is you forgive the motion artifacting.

holl_ands

06-15-07, 12:07 AM

You might have slightly better results with 720p@60 Hz setting than 1080i@30Hz,
esp. for sports channels (ABC, FOX, ESPN), cuz it avoids the problematic
deinterlace process entirely and doubles the image refresh rate.

But if you have a native 1080 set, you may lose some of that hi-def image "pop"...

Try not to wear out that switch.....

teamfx

06-17-07, 07:55 AM

The Svideo connecetion is always live at 480i on the h260f.
So you can just use the Svideo connection to your recorder and you can leave the switch on 1080i.

That certainly lifted the chip off my shoulder. All we have to worry about now is if the H260F will ever feed the 16:9 signal through to an S-Video connection automatically.

Scooper

06-17-07, 09:01 AM

That certainly lifted the chip off my shoulder. All we have to worry about now is if the H260F will ever feed the 16:9 signal through to an S-Video connection automatically.

No issue there - if it is a 16:9 program, you see it all - squished up horizontally. At least, that is what I get. And no options to change aspect on the s-video or composite video outputs either...

Budget_HT

06-18-07, 12:19 AM

No issue there - if it is a 16:9 program, you see it all - squished up horizontally. At least, that is what I get. And no options to change aspect on the s-video or composite video outputs either...
This (s-video out from the 260) becomes a good source for anamorphic recordings of widescreen programs. I can't try it right now because my brand new 260 is in my RV which is stored about 100 miles from my home where my DVD recorders are.

I hope to test this for the presence of a widecsreen flag after our July vacation when I bring the 260 home again. But, my guess would be no flag.

I bought a "cheapie" Polaroid 19" HDTV (widescreen) and IMHO it handles some things much better than the 260. For example, the Polaroid senses the aspect ratio being broadcast and adjusts the displayed video accordingly. The 260 seems to do exactly what was specified by the user, regardless of the aspect ratio identified with the broadcast signal. When set for letterboxed viewing, an HD widescreen program looks fine but a 4x3 program is still displayed in squished form in the letterbox. As I stated before, the Polaroid automatically adjusts the displayed video based on the received aspect ratio.

joemama127

06-20-07, 08:13 PM

Ordered one of these to replace my dying LST-3510A...should be here in a couple of days so I'll know if I wasted my money or not. I really would have liked to wait until more/better models are on the market but my LG could go belly up any day now. :(

rpearlberg

06-20-07, 08:14 PM

Still have one of these for sale...works great, except there is no remote...PM me...

vatraps

06-20-07, 08:50 PM

joemama127

06-20-07, 11:13 PM

I am thinking about getting a OTA HDTV tuner. Is the Samsung DTB-H260F the best under $200 OTA HDTV receiver on the market at present? I can wait till August when the football season starts. Should I wait for the next model or get it now?

Many thanks in advance.As far as I can tell it is the best available right at the moment except for the lack of NTSC tuner...if you see my above post I stated that I wish I had the luxury of waiting for the competition to bring new models to the market. The problem is that most tv's sold in the last 2-3 years have tuners built in...and the companies making these tv's are the same ones who make stb's with tuners...the catch is they would rather you buy a new tv for $2-5k instead of offering a low cost solution for you to keep your old set. We may have to depend on the lower tier manufacturers (including no-name Chinese companies) to give us what we need...and that's always a crap-shoot when it comes to quality.

enier

06-21-07, 07:58 AM

joemama127

06-21-07, 12:35 PM

The only other one I saw was the PHD-205 which uses the same ATI chip as the H260F. It's a bit cheaper but I'm not sure about the overall performance. I looked at the dvd recorders but they do not pass native hd signals. :mad: If no new hd tuners are available by August then it's the H260F which is not necessarily a bad thing.I looked at that one also but the suspect quality combined with the fact that they've already missed their "June" target for shipping the new model (and e-mails to the company give an answer of possibly July now) made me go for the Samsung.

vatraps

06-21-07, 04:24 PM

Thank you for the advise. I have one more question. My Panasonic CRT RPTV does 1080i but no 720p. Does the Samsung DTB-H260F upconvert my local ABC channel's 720p signal to 1080i. I know I should have checked the thread more diligently but I am pressed for time :)

Much mahalo
vatraps

vatraps

06-21-07, 04:34 PM

I know I should have checked the thread more diligently but I am pressed for time :)

Well, I just discovered the search this thread link to the right :cool: and found the answer. So the 260F does upscale all content to 1080i if the switch on the back of the unit if set to 1080i. That's sweet ;) I will be ordering one from amazon shortly.

joemama127

06-27-07, 11:23 AM

Got my DTB-H260F a couple days ago and here are my impressions:

Pros
1. Thing is small and light...tiny in fact. This is good if you are limited for space in an a/v rack but could also be a con because it doesn't match up well to anything else. (must be the top of a stack)

2. OSD is simple to use and shouldn't cause much confusion..the manual isn't overly confusing either and seems to be written by a native english speaker. The on-screen channel guide also works well and can be customized to a small degree.

3. ATSC tuner works well to pull in whatever is available through whatever antenna setup you have...seems to hold the signal better than any tuner I've had before. (including those built into tv's)

cons
1. Remote feels cheap and has tiny specialized function buttons near the bottom..there is plenty of wasted space that could have been used for larger buttons and lighted (or even glowing) buttons would have been nice. It also has a strange underside shape..

2. QAM is barely mentioned in the manual..doing the scan is pretty straight forward (if you know what format your cable uses) but then afterwards is the problem. Maybe I did something wrong but....do I have to check every single subchannel it finds to see if there is a signal??

3. There is an option to scan for "air+cable" which I assume means that you can do a all-in-one scan for OTA plus QAM that will give you a list of everything available from both. Of course the manual doesn't tell you how to do this with only a single "antenna/cable in" coax.....there is a coax for "antenna out" but I'm not sure what this is for and the manual doesn't really tell you.

4. No NTSC tuner so this box is limited to OTA digital/HD only...if you don't have a separate tuner then you are screwed for analog. (my tv has dual NTSC)

Summary
All in all not a bad little device..if you are looking to pull in OTA digital/HD then this box should work for you. I can't really condemn the QAM function because I haven't played with it much and I may not understand what I'm doing. Overall I would recommend this for OTA until something better is available on the market.

sprandini

06-27-07, 12:37 PM

Nice little review joemamma. I'd have to agree with you on pretty much all your points. I bought the DTB-H260F at the beginning of this year and used it for a few months for just QAM. The thing that killed it for me was the lack of an EPG. Although if you were using it for ATSC, it would pull EPG info down, just not QAM. I've since switched my whole setup to an HTPC-based DVR using an HDHOMERUN. I love it!

BTW, if anyone is looking to buy a barely-used DTB-H260F, I've got one! In Los Angeles.

jtbell

06-27-07, 12:53 PM

there is a coax for "antenna out" but I'm not sure what this is for and the manual doesn't really tell you.

It's like on a VCR or DVD recorder... it passes some of the input signal through so you can (for example) daisy-chain the unit with your TV so as to be able to use the TV's analog tuner.

dbsc

06-27-07, 02:48 PM

It's like on a VCR or DVD recorder... it passes some of the input signal through so you can (for example) daisy-chain the unit with your TV so as to be able to use the TV's analog tuner.
But if you turn off the 260 you're going to lose a lot of signal. It doesn't seem to be a passive pass-through.

QZ1

06-27-07, 04:18 PM

So, can this Samsung box be left on all of the time, like our Motorola DVR is?

Can the remote seemlessly turn TV on/off, control TV volume, and control the box channels along with analog cable channels that are daisy-chained?

Or do I need a universal remote for this?

Scooper

06-27-07, 04:22 PM

QZ1

06-27-07, 04:40 PM

Yes , no, no, no, and no.
No NTSC (analog) tuner. The volume buttons controls only the Samsung's audio output.

Your decision on the universal remote....

The samsung doesn't block the signals, but when it is on, it amplifies what's there.
There is one extra 'no' there. ;) :D

I know it doesn't have an NTSC tuner, that is why I referred to daisy chaining the cable, as mentioned earlier.

So, let me see if I have this right; w/o a universal remote, I need to use the tv remote to turn it on, (I set the volume on the TV once), I can then control the volume of the box.

As for the channels, I was hoping because the Analog cable goes into the box, and then to the TV, it could control the channels, but I guess it can't w/o an NTSC tuner.

A universal remote sounds good for powering on the TV, and volume passthrough (if desired), and a TV aspect ratio control of letterboxed Analog cable.

And it sounds like, one would have to change inputs to watch Analog cable even with a universal remote.

joemama127

06-27-07, 09:49 PM

It's like on a VCR or DVD recorder... it passes some of the input signal through so you can (for example) daisy-chain the unit with your TV so as to be able to use the TV's analog tuner.I guess I still don't understand how this would work for my setup as my tv also only has one coax input for cable/antenna...how would I input both the cable and the antenna into the Samsung at the same time?

jeff2631

06-27-07, 10:13 PM

Price is lower at Circuit City now. $165.99 Wonder how much lower it will go.
And it is $154.99 now.

DrBri99

06-27-07, 10:22 PM

I guess I still don't understand how this would work for my setup as my tv also only has one coax input for cable/antenna...how would I input both the cable and the antenna into the Samsung at the same time?
You would have to use an A/B switch, since OTA and Cable are using the same frequencies.

Budget_HT

06-28-07, 01:47 AM

On my 260, the RF pass through only works when the unit is powered on.

The OTA DTV reception performance is better than any other HDTV OTA tuner I own (I have 4 other types).

The QAM cable capability is not as good as my "cheapie" 19" Polaroid HDTV. The Polaroid picks up many more SD digital channels that the Samsung will not.

Does anyone know if any Samsung LCD HDTVs incorporate the same digital tuner as the H260F?

Rammitinski

06-28-07, 02:03 AM

And it is $154.99 now.Looks like I'm back to the store for the 2nd time for more money back! :)

Whidbey

06-28-07, 11:40 AM

Looks like I'm back to the store for the 2nd time for more money back! :)

Hmmm...I paid $161 the other day at Best Buy. Do they have a "lowest price guaruntee" so i can go get some money back too?

James

dbsc

06-28-07, 12:38 PM

I knew I should have used this thing (http://www.priceprotectr.com/). It's been over 3 months since I picked mine up so the current drops wouldn't do me any good.

Whidbey

06-28-07, 01:39 PM

I knew I should have used this thing (http://www.priceprotectr.com/). It's been over 3 months since I picked mine up so the current drops wouldn't do me any good.

thanks! it's only been a few days since i bought mine so that website works for me.

James

Whidbey

06-28-07, 10:38 PM

Best Buy did honor their price match. They gave me back $9 and change, so my net cost for the 260 was $154.99 plus tax.

Question for other owners:
I use a rotator on my antenna to bring in signals from different directions. Is there any way I can manually add channels without using the auto-program feature? I don't like having to re-scan every time I rotate the antenna.

Thanks for any help!

James

jeff2631

06-28-07, 10:51 PM

Enter the physical channel number and it will receive the DT channel. (i.e. enter 39 to receive CBS-DT channel 7.1).

DrBri99

06-28-07, 10:51 PM

Question for other owners:
I use a rotator on my antenna to bring in signals from different directions. Is there any way I can manually add channels without using the auto-program feature? I don't like having to re-scan every time I rotate the antenna.

Thanks for any help!

James
Find out the true RF channel of the stations, when you type it in on the remote and it tunes in the channel, it is automatically added to memory.

Use tvfool.com or antennaweb.org to find the true RF channel frequency.

dbsc

06-29-07, 01:27 AM

I'd recommend tvfool over any other. antennaweb is a nice little toy but it doesn't compare.

And don't tune in the middle of the night, you might get stations that are only coming in due to atmosphere and dumb luck. :)

jtbell

06-29-07, 01:31 AM

Sometimes you have to be careful of the sequence that you add channels in. For example, I have WOLO-DT in Columbia SC on virtual ch 25 and physical ch 8, and WUNF-DT in Asheville NC on virtual ch 33 and physical ch 25. If I first scan or add WOLO-DT, I can't add WUNF-DT by hand, because when I enter "25" the unit tunes to WOLO-DT.

So whenever I clear my channel memory, I have to make sure to add back WUNF-DT first, then WOLO-DT. I've got a few other pairs of stations like this.

drb

06-29-07, 01:58 PM

I am thinking of buying this tuner for use with my HTPC for the QAM capilities. Here are a few ?'s:

The only way is use ant and cable is with a A/B switch? When using A/B switch it is not nesscarry to re-scan each time?

If using for Qam channels, will the RF passthru on the tuner work to ger anolog cable to tv?

Thanks

DRB

dbsc

06-29-07, 04:08 PM

The only way is use ant and cable is with a A/B switch? When using A/B switch it is not nesscarry to re-scan each time?

If using for Qam channels, will the RF passthru on the tuner work to ger anolog cable to tv?
Yes, probably, yes or it wouldn't be much good.

Scooper

06-29-07, 04:36 PM

The passthru works fine for analog OTA. Can't see why it wouldn't work for analog cable.

drb

06-29-07, 07:47 PM

One more ?

Can this tuner recieve both in the clear HD thru the QAM tuner and the anolog cable at the same time? I am using a montior only and the only other tuner I have is tru rhe computer.

DRB

Scooper

06-29-07, 08:18 PM

The only tuners built into this are ATSC for OTA and QAM for digital cable. There is no analog (OTA or cable) tuner in it - it just passes the analog through with some amplification.

joemama127

06-29-07, 08:22 PM

You would have to use an A/B switch, since OTA and Cable are using the same frequencies.Ok, I've already guessed that would be the case but...if I do get an A/B switch how is the Sammy going to scan for both air and cable? In other words will it prompt me to switch over when its done with the scan for one or the other? My confusion lies with the fact that there are 3 scan types "air" "cable" and "cable+air"

Scooper

06-29-07, 08:27 PM

You'll probably want to scan for cable, then select the "real" RF channel of the OTA stations (once in, the PSIP will map them to their virtual channels).

joemama127

06-29-07, 08:40 PM

You'll probably want to scan for cable, then select the "real" RF channel of the OTA stations (once in, the PSIP will map them to their virtual channels).
So in other words do the "air+cable" scan with the A/B switch set to cable and then manually tune in to the DTV stations and lock it into memory? Seems that kinda defeats the purpose of having a combined scan...I think samsung cheaped out by only having one coax input. :mad:

dbsc

06-29-07, 10:31 PM

Don't use the air+cable, it's pretty much a useless option as far as I can tell. Do air for OTA then flip the AB switch to your cable and do the other scan. Scooper was saying to do the cable scan first then flip the AB switch and tune in the OTA channels manually, say channel "2" is actually transmitting on 16, you'd punch 16 in on the box and the box would remap it to be 2.

My way might work and is automatic, Scooper's will for sure but takes more work on your part. There is no time savings doing one over the other.

Budget_HT

06-30-07, 02:57 AM

My 260 unit has retained memories for both OTA digital channels and QAM cable channels. Pressing the "Antenna" buttton on the remote toggles between OTA reception (and channel memory) and cable reception (and QAM channel memory).

It would seem that using the A/B switch on the RF input combined with toggling the "Antenna" button on the remote would allow reception choices from both worlds.

I can't test this right now because I am on vacation in my RV and using my Samsung 260 for OTA digital reception. Tomorrow we go to an RV park with cable service and I will use it for QAM.

At home I have used both OTA and QAM cable without having to repeat the channel setup. Pressing the antenna button on the remote is apparently a shortcut for going into the setup menu and switching between antenna (OTA) and cable (QAM). If I had read the manual, it probably describes this.

physicsguy52

06-30-07, 11:28 PM

dbsc

07-01-07, 12:04 AM

dbsc

07-01-07, 04:52 AM

bcarlsen

07-01-07, 09:54 AM

Having a guide for QAM is possible I'd think, but it depends on the cable co. If they're sending the signal out with incomplete data the guide won't have anything to show you.

I don't use the QAM part myself so I can't say for sure if it works or not.
I use my 260 for QAM and the guide doesn't work at all. I also have a Vizio HDTV with a QAM tuner built in and the guide does work. Seems like there should be a firmware upgrade for the 260.

holl_ands

07-01-07, 06:04 PM

Has anyone tried a combiner (i.e, using a splitter in reverse) to feed both the antenna and cable signals simultaneously? My guess is that the air+cable feature and the antenna-cable selection on the remote control will then do exactly what you want without messing with an AB switch.

BTW, does the TV guide feature work only with OTA? I don't see how it can work with QAM since the cable providers don't even publicize which free QAM channel is which. Would appreciate any inputs on this. I'm considering buying this (tired of waiting for epvision's PHD-205). If by some miracle the guide works with QAM, that would clinch it. I'd gladly trade the PHD-205's NTSC feature for a usable digital TV guide for QAM.

Thanks.
Cable systems populate EVERY OTA channel position, which would swamp
the weak OTA signal in the combiner.

The high level cable signals would ALSO leak out via your OTA antenna,
which is an FCC violation, cuz it could cause your neighbors to receive
a duplicate, delayed version, causing ghosting.
And BTW, there are ALSO cable frequencies outside the TV bands.....oops....
and the intermods and harmonics are EVERYWHERE....

The cable company would also be upset if you re-distributed their extra-cost analog tier.

==============================
Cable appears to be stripping PSIP (program information) from local OTA DTV channels.

TVGOS is embedded into some analog channels (e.g. PBS), but since DTB-H260F
doesn't decode NTSC signals, it's not accessible with just a software change.
Obviously would increase cost....and post-Feb-2009 would go away....

TVGOS is being added to some OTA DTV stations....but seems to be a slow rollout....
if the cable companies haven't figured how to strip it out....
And since it duplicates PSIP (current time + a couple hours) and Internet connection is
SO much better, TVGOS might simply fade away....

physicsguy52

07-01-07, 07:17 PM

I bought the Sammie, and I'm not impressed. I got it on the open box table at Circuit City for $99. The guy there swore there were no defects. I'm not so sure. They ripped me off on a $50 gift card I had, giving me only $23 credit. I guess the $2 a month erosion was occuring, as it has been more than two years since I got the card. But I later found out, in California at least, the erosion is illegal. I'll battle with them on the next visit.

Despite what the manual says, the thing doesn't detect if there is a 16:9 format or 4:3 format being sent. If you pick FULL, it expands either to full screen, so 16:9 looks normal (on my 16:9 TV) and 4:3 looks fat. If you pick pillar box, it squishes both 16:9 and 4:3, so 16:9 looks too skinny and 4:3 looks normal. So there is absolutely no discrimination as to what is being sent.

Now if you have one of those idiotic feeds with 4:3 being sent in a 16:9 field with black bars already in the signal, you get the squish if you have pillar box set, and the embedded 4:3 looks double-skinny as others have noted.

So you constantly have to be adjusting the aspect button for the three possibilities:
4:3 native, 16:9 native, and 4:3 in 16:9. The last is the stations' problem, but the damned box should be able to discriminate between the first two (and treat the last as 16:9). Maybe I have a defective unit.

All the other problems others have noted apply. I don't know why (HDMI should be sending the native ATI-decoded stream to the TV, at least for 1080i source outputting as 1080i) but the pic quality doesn't seem to be as good as the epvision PHD-200 (which I returned for the analog sound problem). Can anyone get it completely right? Even for the bargain $99, I might return the Sammie and try out the PHD-205 whenever it becomes available.

Does such a box do it's own scaling of 480i to 1080i before sending it out the HDMI port (switch set to 1080i)? Or does that scaling happen in my Toshiba HDTV monitor when the HDMI is fed? I ask because the 480i stuff especially looks worse than the PHD-200 and it wouldn't make much sense if the Toshiba were doing the scaling. So I'm trying to decide if it might be my imagination. If the image is already 1080i out the port, the Sammie is scaling and it might not be my imagination. If it is merely tagged to be converted to 1080i by the receiving end, then the Toshiba would be doing the scaling and it might be my imagination. I don't know enough about HDTV standards to know which is happening.

One thing I've noticed about the Korean products is that the mfg treats usability as an afterthought. Its like none of the engineers really tried to use the thing. It's too bad Japanese labor costs got so high. Their feature planning was usually a lot better. No Japanese separate qam tuner box available that I know of.

jtbell

07-01-07, 08:15 PM

Despite what the manual says, the thing doesn't detect if there is a 16:9 format or 4:3 format being sent. If you pick FULL, it expands either to full screen, so 16:9 looks normal (on my 16:9 TV) and 4:3 looks fat. If you pick pillar box, it squishes both 16:9 and 4:3, so 16:9 looks too skinny and 4:3 looks normal. So there is absolutely no discrimination as to what is being sent.

Yep, that's the way this unit works. It's the only one of the five different ATSC receivers I've used that does this; all the rest display the correct aspect ratio by default, or at least don't squish 16:9 material. For me it's only a minor annoyance because I'm OTA-only, and most of the channels I watch are broadcast as 16:9 HD so I can leave the format set to "Full" most of the time. The only channels I really need "Pillar box" mode for is the PBS station's SD subchannels.

Does such a box do it's own scaling of 480i to 1080i before sending it out the HDMI port (switch set to 1080i)?

Yes. Why would it need that resolution switch on the back if it didn't? :confused:

My biggest peeve about this unit is the number of clicks it takes to get to the signal-strength meter. I use it a lot because my stations are scattered all around the compass dial, so I often have to rotate the antenna and then tweak it to optimize the signal.

But I keep on using it because it does better with weak signals and multipath than any of my other receivers. You can't have everything!

The Hound

07-01-07, 11:58 PM

I never have to use the aspect on the 260.
If the program is 16x9 it shoots 16x9, if it's 4x3 it a shoots 4x3 with pillars, if it's 4x3 in a 16x9, it shoots 4x3 with nothing in the pillar but the clear station logo.
I use OTA into a PJ.
Works good.

jeff2631

07-02-07, 12:08 AM

All the sub channels are 4:3 stretched to 16:9 and the pillar function corrects the picture aspect ratio.

physicsguy52

07-04-07, 03:35 AM

jtbell:
I thought maybe the switch just causes the 480i stream to be tagged to tell the receiving end to scale by how much. Apparently not, based on what you are telling me. So the Sammie is scaling, and I think the SD up-scaling is inferior to the epvision PHD-200.

The Hound: What the Jeffxxxx said makes sense on how 4:3 pre-stretched can wind up corrected with pillars. But I don't know of any 4:3 subchannels that are pre-stretched in my area at least. And you aren't having problems with any of the combinations, which makes me wonder if some of these units do things according to what is said in the manual, and some are dumb (i.e., defective) like mine. Maybe it is a firmware version issue.

Scooper

07-04-07, 08:43 AM

pages 33-35 cover screen formatting

Heligeek

07-05-07, 02:54 AM

Hey, first post here... Hi :)

Due to many glowing reports of this Samsung tuner and being that I finally own an HDTV monitor, figured it was time to mate the two and move up to the modern age of HD television.

Overall the 260 works as advertised except for one thing: When trying to detect or tune channels on the Atlanta Comcast cable, nothing is logged in the Channel Manager. And even stranger yet, if I switch the "antenna" from OTA to Cable, there's no way to even manually tune sub or 'dot' subchannels. As I key in any channel number (while in Cable mode), as soon as I hit the Dash (dot) key, the channel display instantly jumps to the last-tuned cable channel displayed as a whole number. I tried searching through the forum threads for an answer to this issue but had to give up as I went too far astray reading other related material. There's nothing said in my manual on this topic so I'm thinking my STB, purchased new from CC, has a problem.

Any quick answers to this? Thanks a bunch in advance!

John Mason

07-05-07, 06:19 AM

Overall the 260 works as advertised except for one thing: When trying to detect or tune channels on the Atlanta Comcast cable, nothing is logged in the Channel Manager.
Welcome to the forums. QAM-tuned channels, from what I've read, usually have odd-ball numbers, different from channel numbers typically used. I've seen reports, from those running scans, of locating unencrypted QAM channels after a more detailed search. And if the QAM numbering is different, keying standard channel numbers in wouldn't work.

A search of the Atlanta (cable?) thread in the local-forums AVS group might offer tips. Using the Google option in forum searches works best. Or just go to Google.com directly and enter terms such as: avsforum Atlanta Comcast QAM channels . -- John

toby10

07-05-07, 09:29 AM

Jtbell wrote: My biggest peeve about this unit is the number of clicks it takes to get to the signal-strength meter. I use it a lot because my stations are scattered all around the compass dial, so I often have to rotate the antenna and then tweak it to optimize the signal.

I could not agree more! As this unit is (primarily) used as an OTA digital tuner, and OTA digital signals can be touchy, one would think Samsung would have made the signal strength meter more easily accessible. Like a button on the remote.

Of course, we all want more & different unique features on any item we purchase. We are human, therefore we are never satisfied. :)

Couple of ideas for improving the signal strength meter access:

1. Replace the "time remaining on this program" bar (useless feature) with a signal bar
2. Have the signal meter displayed (default or option) as part of the channel info at the top of the screen when changing channels.
3. For tuning/adjusting the antenna, maybe display ALL or selected OTA channels in a list format with a real time signal meter next to each channel. This way, an antenna can be tuned/adjusted for the best "overall" signal from all sources. Currently, the unit only displays a single signal meter for only the currently tuned channel.

toby10

07-05-07, 09:55 AM

Just curious if anyone else has experienced this:

H260F HDMI out to 50 foot HDMI cable to TV HDMI in gives me intermittent audio/video dropouts.

50' HDMI is a Monoprice cable.

Yes, I know a long run of HDMI can have signal problems (TV and AV equipment are in different locations in the room), but read on:

Same setup using a 2 foot HDMI to TV, no dropouts.

Third setup: H260F out to 2 foot HDMI to AV receiver HDMI in, AV receiver out to 50 foot HDMI (same 50' cable) to TV HDMI in, no dropouts.

Is it possible the H260F HDMI out just lacks HDMI "ummph" (there's a technical term :) ) to send the signal over a 50 foot HDMI cable? Obviously the 50 HDMI works fine with a different source.

Summary:

1. H260F to TV over 50' HDMI = dropouts
2. H260F to TV over 2' HDMI = no dropouts
3. H260F to AV receiver over 2' HDMI, AV receiver to TV over 50' HDMI = no dropouts

Thanks :)

bcarlsen

07-05-07, 10:18 AM

Hey, first post here... Hi

Due to many glowing reports of this Samsung tuner and being that I finally own an HDTV monitor, figured it was time to mate the two and move up to the modern age of HD television.

Overall the 260 works as advertised except for one thing: When trying to detect or tune channels on the Atlanta Comcast cable, nothing is logged in the Channel Manager. And even stranger yet, if I switch the "antenna" from OTA to Cable, there's no way to even manually tune sub or 'dot' subchannels. As I key in any channel number (while in Cable mode), as soon as I hit the Dash (dot) key, the channel display instantly jumps to the last-tuned cable channel displayed as a whole number. I tried searching through the forum threads for an answer to this issue but had to give up as I went too far astray reading other related material. There's nothing said in my manual on this topic so I'm thinking my STB, purchased new from CC, has a problem.

Any quick answers to this? Thanks a bunch in advance!
I'm not sure which channels you are trying to receive. Are you trying to get HD channels in clear QAM over your cable? Do you know for a fact that your cable company provides this? Are you using an antenna to get OTA channels? If so, it would be expected that you cannot tune your channels in Cable mode since it won't use the ATSC tuner.

dbsc

07-05-07, 12:18 PM

H260F HDMI out to 50 foot HDMI cable to TV HDMI in gives me intermittent audio/video dropouts.

Same setup using a 2 foot HDMI to TV, no dropouts.

Third setup: H260F out to 2 foot HDMI to AV receiver HDMI in, AV receiver out to 50 foot HDMI (same 50' cable) to TV HDMI in, no dropouts.

Is it possible the H260F HDMI out just lacks HDMI "ummph" (there's a technical term :) ) to send the signal over a 50 foot HDMI cable? Obviously the 50 HDMI works fine with a different source.
It's not a different source. :) The receiver may be amplifying the signal. What make/model is it?

Heligeek

07-05-07, 12:45 PM

Welcome to the forums.
Thank you.
QAM-tuned channels, from what I've read, usually have odd-ball numbers, different from channel numbers typically used.The real issue with my 260 is that I can't even successfully enter any dot number if the antenna (via the Antenna button on the remote) is changed over to Cable mode. This is irespective of whether I have a real antenna or cable source connected. OTA reception is fine and tunes as it should with subchannel numbers easy to key in and add to the Channel Manager, Example: 2.1, 5.2, etc. But again, if the antenna button on the remote is pushed so the 260 is now in Cable mode, the "X.X" channel numbers can't even be entered correctly.

Can other owners of their 260s manually tune subchannel numbers while in Cable antenna mode? If so, then my box is defective and I need to exchange it while I still can (only a couple weeks old).
A search of the Atlanta (cable?) thread in the local-forums AVS group might offer tips. Using the Google option in forum searches works best. Or just go to Google directly and enter terms such as: avsforum Atlanta Comcast QAM channels . -- John
Wow, do you have any idea how many hours I've spent searching and reading as you suggest? I've not yet found the answer to my exact problem, figured it was time to ask directly in a group with experience using this tuner. Can you tune 'dot' numbers (any channel, not specifically one you know to be available) on your 260 while it's in cable input mode. That's all I really need to know.
bcarlsen
I'm not sure which channels you are trying to receive. Are you trying to get HD channels in clear QAM over your cable?
Correct, if available, and I'm certain they are according to various Atlanta/Comcast user groups who's forums I've read.
Do you know for a fact that your cable company provides this?
Well, if I had to bet my life on it, er... no. But I'm 99.44% sure from what I've read. Doesn't hurt to try, right? ;)
Are you using an antenna to get OTA channels? If so, it would be expected that you cannot tune your channels in Cable mode since it won't use the ATSC tuner.
OTA channels are no problem, as I've already stated, I can't even enter any channel numbers that contain a 'dot' while the tuner's antenna input is switched to Cable mode. Can you? Please try it, cable or anything connected and let me know if you can punch in, let's say, "22.2" while the TV monitor displays the channel number in the upper left of the screen. A picture showing program material is not required for this test, I only need to know if the number entered will stay once the dash key is pressed.

I stated in my first post: "As I key in any channel number (while in Cable mode), as soon as I hit the Dash (dot) key, the channel display instantly jumps to the last-tuned cable channel displayed as a whole number."

HELP! :eek:
Thanks! :)

toby10

07-05-07, 01:06 PM

It's not a different source. :) The receiver may be amplifying the signal. What make/model is it?
Thanks dbsc. :)

The receiver is a Yamaha RX-V2700.

I did post in the RX-V2700 forum here asking if the HDMI out is boosted-amplified in any way. So far the response is "no boosting-amplification". But, only one response so far and maybe it is boosted-amplified but is not stated so in the specs & manual.

*shrug*

It just seems silly to have to run HDMI through a 140 watt receiver just to watch reruns of Sienfeld. :)

paulbehnke

07-05-07, 01:09 PM

For what it's worth...I have two smaller HD TV sets, both with ATSC and Qam tunners. If I log on to OTA signals they will not Pick up and memorize QAM signals... I can add more of the same. Two tuners in each tv with one memory or acess to only one memory. I fact I have to clear OTA memory before it will scan for unencrypted HD signals.

dbsc

07-05-07, 01:56 PM

Thanks dbsc. :)

The receiver is a Yamaha RX-V2700.

I did post in the RX-V2700 forum here asking if the HDMI out is boosted-amplified in any way. So far the response is "no boosting-amplification". But, only one response so far and maybe it is boosted-amplified but is not stated so in the specs & manual.

*shrug*

It just seems silly to have to run HDMI through a 140 watt receiver just to watch reruns of Sienfeld. :)
"The RX-2700 is capable of HDMI 1080p signal pass through and up-converting analog composite, S-video and component signals to HDMI output"

You're doing HDMI-to-HDMI which isn't specifically spoken of in that quote, however it is obvious that the receiver is more than a simple passive pass-through. I would guess that the receiver does in fact "amplify" the HDMI signal, but only compared to some other HDMI-capable devices.

What I mean is that's normal operation for your receiver to put out a signal of sufficient strength, whereas normal operation for the 260 appears to be to put out a somewhat lower strength. Without knowing the general specs for HDMI itself, I'd guess they might both be doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing. If using the receiver to give an unintended boost works then use it! Or get a booster box.

BTW, that's one hell of a receiver. The back looks like some kind of space shuttle panel.

toby10

07-05-07, 02:33 PM

Yeah, that's kinda what I suspected. It's amplifying it without actually stating so in plain english. Maybe, to those that understand the lingo, "upconverting" automatically means (or includes) some sort of amplification. I dunno.

Yes, it's a very capable receiver. I've been very happy with it. Not without it's quirks & oddities, but overall very well built & designed.

Thanks again for your input. :)

Heligeek

07-05-07, 03:14 PM

A search of the Atlanta (cable?) thread in the local-forums AVS group might offer tips. Using the Google option in forum searches works best. Or just go to Google directly and enter terms such as: avsforum Atlanta Comcast QAM channels . -- John

Here's a list of Atlanta Comcast QAM channels found while searching before buying my H260. Pretty high motivation on my part, yes? :D

80.201 ABC
80.202 FOX
80.203 NBC
80.204 TBS
80.205 DPB
80.206 CBS
80.207 CW
80.208 WHSG
80.209 iTV
80.210 MyAtlTV
80.211 UNI
80.212 PBA 30
81.5 AIB
81.21 SHOP@HOME
81.25 JewelryTV
81.26 PAX
81.122 Public Service
81.124 annenbug CPB
85.111 WGN
85.112 Atlanta 57
87.3 On Demand? Music Choice
87.6 On Demand?
87.8 On Demand?
87.9 On Demand?
87.10 Starz On Demand
92.21 WAGA-DT FOX
93.1 Comcast Weather
93.27 TV Guide
97.2 Sports On Demand
98.3 WSB-DT ABC
98.10 TBS-DT TBS
99.21 Spanish Audio
99.22 Spanish Audio
99.23 Spanish Audio
99.24 Spanish Audio
100.1 Preview Channel
101.2 MyAtlTV-DT
104.201 CSPAN
104.202 CSPAN-2
104.209 HSN
104.210 QVC
108.10 WGCL-DT CBS
108.30 WXIA-DT NBC
111.301 Turner South Not in DeKalb?
114.10 DISC-HD DeKalb Only?
116.2 Events in Demand

But alas, I can't enter the channel numbers or detect them through the auto channel search. :confused:

That's all for now. Thanks...

dbsc

07-05-07, 05:45 PM

But alas, I can't enter the channel numbers or detect them through the auto channel search. :confused:
None of the three cable modes worked at all?

Heligeek

07-05-07, 06:36 PM

None of the three cable modes worked at all?
Correct. It's not a matter of connectivity, signal strength, power (yes, all devices were energized) or anything else I can think of. See why I sound so frustrated? My H260 will NOT let me even enter subchannel numbers manually. Please, someone follow my description of the problem and report back with the results. Punching the buttons on the H260 remote will only take a few seconds and verify whether my box is defective or if all of them prevent manual entry of subchannels while in Cable antenna mode.

I did contact a friend with a new H260 (talked him into buying one for his front projector) but won't hear back until late tonight. The suspense is killing me!
My hands are tied until I know.

Thanks again

bcarlsen

07-05-07, 07:09 PM

Thank you.
The real issue with my 260 is that I can't even successfully enter any dot number if the antenna (via the Antenna button on the remote) is changed over to Cable mode. This is irespective of whether I have a real antenna or cable source connected. OTA reception is fine and tunes as it should with subchannel numbers easy to key in and add to the Channel Manager, Example: 2.1, 5.2, etc. But again, if the antenna button on the remote is pushed so the 260 is now in Cable mode, the "X.X" channel numbers can't even be entered correctly.

Can other owners of their 260s manually tune subchannel numbers while in Cable antenna mode? If so, then my box is defective and I need to exchange it while I still can (only a couple weeks old).

Wow, do you have any idea how many hours I've spent searching and reading as you suggest? I've not yet found the answer to my exact problem, figured it was time to ask directly in a group with experience using this tuner. Can you tune 'dot' numbers (any channel, not specifically one you know to be available) on your 260 while it's in cable input mode. That's all I really need to know.

Correct, if available, and I'm certain they are according to various Atlanta/Comcast user groups who's forums I've read.

Well, if I had to bet my life on it, er... no. But I'm 99.44% sure from what I've read. Doesn't hurt to try, right? ;)

OTA channels are no problem, as I've already stated, I can't even enter any channel numbers that contain a 'dot' while the tuner's antenna input is switched to Cable mode. Can you? Please try it, cable or anything connected and let me know if you can punch in, let's say, "22.2" while the TV monitor displays the channel number in the upper left of the screen. A picture showing program material is not required for this test, I only need to know if the number entered will stay once the dash key is pressed.

I stated in my first post: "As I key in any channel number (while in Cable mode), as soon as I hit the Dash (dot) key, the channel display instantly jumps to the last-tuned cable channel displayed as a whole number."

HELP! :eek:
Thanks! :)

I am also using the 260 to get channels in QAM from my cable. I am able to key in the channels as long as they are in the Channel Manager. For example, I have channel 6-2 in the Channel manager and I can key it in. If I try to key in 5-2, the 260 stops me as soon as I hit the dash because I am not getting anything on channel 5. Have you verified that you are getting a cable signal from your coax cable?

Heligeek

07-05-07, 07:41 PM

Hey, something's starting to be consistent with my findings!

I am also using the 260 to get channels in QAM from my cable. I am able to key in the channels as long as they are in the Channel Manager. For example, I have channel 6-2 in the Channel manager and I can key it in. If I try to key in 5-2, the 260 stops me as soon as I hit the dash because I am not getting anything on channel 5. Have you verified that you are getting a cable signal from your coax cable?

That's interesting, your 260 acts just like mine in that it kicks you away from the newly keyed channel when in Cable mode (via the Antenna button) as soon as you hit the Dash key (if there's no corresponding channel in the Manager). But why doesn't it act this way in OTA mode? Even if I try to punch in a channel NOT in the Channel Manager while in OTA mode, the tuner will let me complete the number input but only rejects it if unable to detect it over the antenna and this takes a second or two.

Definitely have a cable signal, watching TLC (Ch 33) right now ;) Also have high-speed Internet on the same cable and that's how I'm talking with you :D

So what's the trick to get this box to read/detect/remember/log cable channels? As earlier posted, all three cable modes were tried (Standard, HRC & IRC) without finding a single signal. The provided Comcast cable box works great for the On Demand as well as the basic stations. What to try next? :(

bcarlsen

07-05-07, 08:34 PM

Definitely have a cable signal, watching TLC (Ch 33) right now
Do you mean that you've plugged this particular coax cable into a tv to verify that you are getting a good signal? Maybe you have too many splits in your cable and you're getting a weak signal. Kind of grasping as straws...

If it helps at all, I also have Comcast cable and I have my 260 set to Cable/STD mode, so maybe this is also the correct setting for you.

dbsc

07-05-07, 10:43 PM

bigpoppa206

07-05-07, 11:49 PM

OTA channels are no problem, as I've already stated, I can't even enter any channel numbers that contain a 'dot' while the tuner's antenna input is switched to Cable mode. Can you? Please try it, cable or anything connected and let me know if you can punch in, let's say, "22.2" while the TV monitor displays the channel number in the upper left of the screen. A picture showing program material is not required for this test, I only need to know if the number entered will stay once the dash key is pressed.

I stated in my first post: "As I key in any channel number (while in Cable mode), as soon as I hit the Dash (dot) key, the channel display instantly jumps to the last-tuned cable channel displayed as a whole number."

HELP! :eek:
Thanks! :)
I would start by double checking (or even temporarily removing) all splitters and rescan those channels. If they don't show up in STD, try HRC or even IRC modes on the Samsung DTB. The digital in-the-clear QAM channels usually start somewhere around #79 or #80 and go up. Usually the Samsung DTB will find more channels than you can view, as I'm sure you probably already know that those are the encrypted one you can go ahead and delete out of your channel lineup since you cannot view them anyway. I've read from others in this thread that signal strength can be a problem.

It would seem to me if you cannot find ANY QAM channels using a straight run of cable directly from the wall in the DTB, they Comcast might have encrypted the whole lot of them. You will probably get better info from other Atlanta Comcast subscribers on this very issue at the Atlanta Comcast (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=188046&highlight=comcast+atlanta) thread. In the end, you might need to have Comcast come out and check the line to see what's going on, but as we all know that is usually a last resort. Good Luck!

bigpoppa206

07-05-07, 11:52 PM

Definitely have a cable signal, watching TLC (Ch 33) right now ;) Also have high-speed Internet on the same cable and that's how I'm talking with you :D
Yes but that is analog cable, not digital, correct?

Heligeek

07-06-07, 03:00 AM

Do you mean that you've plugged this particular coax cable into a tv to verify that you are getting a good signal?

10-4. Solid and clear reception. The particular tap was the one I use to view/record onto a DVD recorder so I'm particular as to the strength and noise level on that drop.

Maybe you have too many splits in your cable and you're getting a weak signal. Kind of grasping as straws...

Since I'm trying to get the cleanest signal to my DVD recorder, there's only one split off the main source cable at this particular tap. But you've got me thinking...

If it helps at all, I also have Comcast cable and I have my 260 set to Cable/STD mode, so maybe this is also the correct setting for you.

That helps reduce the number of iterations at least. Thank you!

Heligeek

07-06-07, 03:06 AM

bcarlsen is right, try it on a different branch of your cable.
If it still doesn't work, unhook *every* branch so the 260 is plugged directly in to the incoming cable line.
If that fails I'd try exchanging the 260.

I'm about to try this very test. I do know at one time there were splitters in this cable hookup that weren't a wide enough bandwidth to cleanly carry all the digital channels when I subscribed to some premium channels. But those splitters were replaced a couple years ago and there have been no signal level issues since. But what the hey, this is a free test and I'll report back afterwards. If still no joy, CC is going to get a visit from me later today.

Thanks :)

Heligeek

07-06-07, 03:22 AM

I would start by double checking (or even temporarily removing) all splitters and rescan those channels.

If I can get through the replies before falling asleep that's exactly what I intend to do.

If they don't show up in STD, try HRC or even IRC modes on the Samsung DTB.

I supposedly shouldn't have to try the HRC or IRC but you know that's what I'll do if there's no reaction to the STD mode.

Usually the Samsung DTB will find more channels than you can view, as I'm sure you probably already know that those are the encrypted one you can go ahead and delete out of your channel lineup since you cannot view them anyway.

I'd "kill" just to be able to delete unwanted (scrambled) cable channels! That would prove my 260 was receiving something. Right now, nothing...

I've read from others in this thread that signal strength can be a problem.

Signal too high or low? My provided Comcast cable box, the Motorola DTC2224, has a great service menu that allows me to monitor signal strength and helped a bunch in diagnosing a cable defect a few years back. If the level is too high for the 260, I can add in-line attenuators and kill the signal by degrees. Somehow I don't think that will be necessary.

It would seem to me if you cannot find ANY QAM channels using a straight run of cable directly from the wall in the DTB, they Comcast might have encrypted the whole lot of them. You will probably get better info from other Atlanta Comcast subscribers on this very issue at the Atlanta Comcast (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=188046&highlight=comcast+atlanta) thread. In the end, you might need to have Comcast come out and check the line to see what's going on, but as we all know that is usually a last resort. Good Luck!

Supposedly those channels listed (by me) in an earlier posting are the ones available and most are clear. I'm also a member of the Yahoo! group associated with the Comcast cable provider in my area. But there's only so much time to read all the stuff out there. I'll get to the bottom of this eventually.

Thanks!

Heligeek

07-06-07, 03:29 AM

Yes but that is analog cable, not digital, correct?

That's a bit of a loaded question. It's analog and digital on the same feed. Now is it HD digital? I don't know if I can say for certain. Other Atlanta Comcast users with the basic analog service exclaimed with joy and amazement at the clear HD signal they saw when connecting their QAM HD tuner to the cable. My cable is supposedly digital "rated" as to the bandwidth available.

Let me do my little test with all the splitters removed and I'll report my findings.

Please stand by...

Heligeek

07-06-07, 04:12 AM

holl_ands

07-06-07, 04:24 AM

Or wait for the 22.2 channel unit:
http://www.nhk.or.jp/digital/en/technical/02_super.html

John Mason

07-06-07, 06:26 AM

Wow, do you have any idea how many hours I've spent searching and reading as you suggest?
Hope others with this tuner can supply operating tips. On the QAM tuning from Comcast discussion, after seeing a recent post broadly claiming Comcast doesn't provide unencrypted channels, I entered the Atlanta/Comcast local-form thread, entered a search-this-thread word of 'encrypted', and found various hits indicating Comcast Atlanta does provide such channels--even a few channel numbers, if I recall correctly. Good luck pinning down your queries. -- John

toby10

07-06-07, 10:35 AM

Zip, zero, zilch, nada, nothing, no channels found. :(

I bypassed all splitters and tried all three cable tuning modes (STD, HRC, IRC) with no positive results.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. This unit is going back to CC and it looks as if they have more in stock so I'll get a direct swap with no wait. If box #2 acts the same, maybe there's no HD digital content on this feed. Only one way to find out...

Thanks all!

PS: toby10,

That Yamaha RX-V2700 receiver is fantastic! I downloaded the owners manual and did a quick read-through for the first 30% and now I want one! Too bad I'm not ready for such an advanced piece but now I know what's available and that's what's important. Very cool...
Yes, it is a great all around AV receiver. This is my third Yamaha AV unit and have always been pleased with build, design, performance. The only reason I'm on my third unit (over 15 years) is due to my increased needs for options and additional inputs. Never once had one fail on me.

That said, be sure you read the RX-V2700 thread on here before you pull the trigger on a $ 1,600.00 receiver ($ 900.00 if you go the "non-authorized dealer" route). As with any such unit there are issues, draw backs, incompatabilities, warranty issues, etc.... It ain't perfect. :)

Problems with the 2700's HDMI inputs/outputs are quite well documented in these forums.

Heligeek

07-06-07, 12:21 PM

Hope others with this tuner can supply operating tips. On the QAM tuning from Comcast discussion, after seeing a recent post broadly claiming Comcast doesn't provide unencrypted channels, I entered the Atlanta/Comcast local-form thread, entered a search-this-thread word of 'encrypted', and found various hits indicating Comcast Atlanta does provide such channels--even a few channel numbers, if I recall correctly. Good luck pinning down your queries. -- John

Thanks John. One thing I would prefer to do is visit with someone else in the area NOT on my particular cable feed and see if maybe the signal offered has content different from mine. But alas, everyone I know either has some sort of satellite system or OTA only. I'd have to drive 100 miles minimum to test a "cable" system and that takes me way out of my provider's area. Not a good test for me :( I'm not giving up...yet.

Thanks.

Heligeek

07-06-07, 12:30 PM

That said, be sure you read the RX-V2700 thread on here before you pull the trigger on a $ 1,600.00 receiver ($ 900.00 if you go the "non-authorized dealer" route). As with any such unit there are issues, draw backs, incompatabilities, warranty issues, etc.... It ain't perfect. :)

Problems with the 2700's HDMI inputs/outputs are quite well documented in these forums.

Being that I'm always curious, I'll do some reading to check those issues but it's going to be a couple years before my home theater is prepared for a receiver such as this.

Now that HDMI is something I need to be able to switch and currently three signal sources supply such a signal (PC, H260F, upconverting DVD player), having all-in-one AV control is highly appealing. My old Sony STR-DE545 is nice but falling behind the times. When the Samsung 260 is functioning as expected I'll want to use its HDMI out (using component out now) but need to purchase a remote-controlled HDMI switcher. Anyone have any comments on the MonoPrice HDMI switchers or am I going too far off subject here?

Thanks all.

toby10

07-06-07, 01:49 PM

Being that I'm always curious, I'll do some reading to check those issues but it's going to be a couple years before my home theater is prepared for a receiver such as this.

Now that HDMI is something I need to be able to switch and currently three signal sources supply such a signal (PC, H260F, upconverting DVD player), having all-in-one AV control is highly appealing. My old Sony STR-DE545 is nice but falling behind the times. When the Samsung 260 is functioning as expected I'll want to use its HDMI out (using component out now) but need to purchase a remote-controlled HDMI switcher. Anyone have any comments on the MonoPrice HDMI switchers or am I going too far off subject here?

Thanks all.
Just an FYI: My 260 is currently using HDMI out (into the Yamaha) and is working flawlessly. Just remember (what started my posting in this thread) is the 260 is not able to send the HDMI over a 50 foot HDMI cable. Hopefully your setup has your TV much closer to your 260, eliminating the problems with long HDMI runs.

Also, if your screen is in the 42" or less size range, there is little or no difference in picture quality running either HDMI or component. I've run my 260 with both HDMI and component connections to a 42" NEC plasma and I am unable to see any difference in PQ whatsoever.
To be fair, my 260 is my only HDMI source unit, so I have limited PQ comparison options between HDMI and component.

Many people, including in the RX-V2700 forum here, are "holding off" buying any HDMI device(s) until the newer 1.3 version of HDMI is more readily available and get the bugs worked out. Of course, as always, if they wait till 1.3 HDMI is in full circulation and any problems fixed, then they will want to "hold off" till 1.4 HDMI is out. The endless circle.

Heligeek

07-07-07, 12:23 AM

Just an FYI: My 260 is currently using HDMI out (into the Yamaha) and is working flawlessly. Just remember (what started my posting in this thread) is the 260 is not able to send the HDMI over a 50 foot HDMI cable. Hopefully your setup has your TV much closer to your 260, eliminating the problems with long HDMI runs.

I read that. When I ordered my DVI-to-HDMI cable from Monoprice (off eBay) I weighed the cable length against my need to have flexibility of positioning of the equipment against my concern of getting low signal to the monitor (46" Sony HD rear projector). I heard 15' was the limit of reliable data transfer without a booster/equalizer and I have perfect results with the 10 footer I purchased.

Also, if your screen is in the 42" or less size range, there is little or no difference in picture quality running either HDMI or component. I've run my 260 with both HDMI and component connections to a 42" NEC plasma and I am unable to see any difference in PQ whatsoever.
To be fair, my 260 is my only HDMI source unit, so I have limited PQ comparison options between HDMI and component.

The source of the program material available for reception with the 260 isn't up to the quality (IMHO) to let HDMI show its advantage. With my Philips upconverting DVD player as a signal provider and Star Wars EP2 as the program, switching the Sony 46" from Component to HDMI (1080i) and back, there was a clear improvement in the fine details of the picture when in HDMI mode. I'm sold.

Many people, including in the RX-V2700 forum here, are "holding off" buying any HDMI device(s) until the newer 1.3 version of HDMI is more readily available and get the bugs worked out. Of course, as always, if they wait till 1.3 HDMI is in full circulation and any problems fixed, then they will want to "hold off" till 1.4 HDMI is out. The endless circle.

I'm going to "get on the bus" and not wait for the next generation in this medium. In my primary hobby of R/C helicopters (catch the screen name relevance?), the advance in technology is exactly the same runaway process. I know all about this... :)

Heligeek

07-07-07, 12:49 AM

For all holding their breath with the outcome of my problem with receiving Atlanta Comcast cable on my H260F tuner, the wait is over! I will admit to missing a golden opportunity to compare my replacement tuner to the one returned to CC, I completely forgot to record the firmware on that first unit. I believe its manufacture date was 2006.11 but I could be mistaken. I do remember it was so old it seemed to coincide with the release to the public. The replacement tuner is marked 2007.03, firmware rev., ah...how do I view the rev. number? :o

Anyway, there are clear differences in the two tuners. First, the replacement operates MUCH cooler, the 'Aspect' button now give 16:9 Pillar mode (missed having that with the older tuner) and even better, connecting the cable and scanning (in STD Cable mode) netted 306 total channels! Clearly my older firmware wasn't happy tuning QAM frequencies or something.

The scan was performed with the main feeder cable connected straight to the 260. I did a second scan using the cheesy push-on coax provided with the tuner and hooked into the cable system two splitters downstream of the main feed. Netted 313 total channels! Now there's the arduous task of weeding out all the dud channels but I think I'll survive :D

Too bad the Signal Strength "meter" is not active when receiving cable channels. I would have loved to see the difference in level in the first and second scans. Oh well.

If there's anything else I discover that could add to the database of info, I'll post it here. Thanks everyone.

holl_ands

07-07-07, 01:21 AM

What are the part numbers on the "tin-can" tuner module and big processor chip???

dbsc

07-07-07, 01:40 AM

If there's anything else I discover that could add to the database of info, I'll post it here. Thanks everyone.
Knowing there are in fact different firmwares out in the wild is immeasurably useful in itself!

I'm going to check mine right now in fact.

There's nothing in the menus that is of any help. There is a sticker on the bottom though, which has a date 2007.01 - could be a manufacture date rather than a firmware indication. Anyone else have better insights? Mine aren't that great. :)

Heligeek

07-07-07, 01:49 AM

What are the part numbers on the "tin-can" tuner module and big processor chip???

You'll have to wait a week or so for this information, sorry. I stuffed the 260 back into its hole and want to let it rest for a while while I travel. Again a missed opportunity because I did pull the case off my first tuner to see its guts. I almost took a picture but was feeling lazy and didn't.

Is the firmware rev. noted outside the case or visible through a key sequence? Wait, maybe something on the shipping box......

Serial No: 94616RDP303474B (on box end)
06/22/07 (on box carton label sticker)
"Wave" 607
And other numbers such as:
0834 and 71003043 and 25-10-02-02-02

joemama127

07-07-07, 07:22 PM

Knowing there are in fact different firmwares out in the wild is immeasurably useful in itself!

I'm going to check mine right now in fact.

There's nothing in the menus that is of any help. There is a sticker on the bottom though, which has a date 2007.01 - could be a manufacture date rather than a firmware indication. Anyone else have better insights? Mine aren't that great. :)I just got mine a couple weeks ago and it has "2007.05" which I assume is the month and year of manufacture....I don't know the secret button presses for the firmware version though. :(

Heligeek

07-08-07, 03:58 PM

holl_ands

07-08-07, 06:59 PM

Looks like I'll be staying here and not leaving town as originally planned :mad:

What's an efficient picture resolution for posting on this forum? I want to let my image details shine through intact.
AVS will accept up to 800Wx600H (NOT 600Wx800H) picture files (e.g. jpeg, png).
Anything higher than that has to be a zip file....try to keep it under 250K...or so....

The Hound

07-09-07, 01:40 AM

DonB2

07-09-07, 04:39 PM

I was hoping I could just enter a 3 digit code to program my H260 on my Universal remote but no such luck. Looks like I will have to use the learning function instead.

-DonB2

dbsc

07-09-07, 06:56 PM

What's an efficient picture resolution for posting on this forum? I want to let my image details shine through intact.
My recommendation is to just host it at ImageShack and give us thumbnails, like so:
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/5889/letterjr7.th.gif (http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/5889/letterjr7.gif)
This way there's no image resolution limit and it won't make a mess of the forum layout.

Also, click that thumbnail for a good chuckle and groan at once.

The Hound

07-09-07, 11:31 PM

Knowing there are in fact different firmwares out in the wild is immeasurably useful in itself!

I'm going to check mine right now in fact.

There's nothing in the menus that is of any help. There is a sticker on the bottom though, which has a date 2007.01 - could be a manufacture date rather than a firmware indication. Anyone else have better insights? Mine aren't that great. :)
The bottom of my unit also says 2007.01.
The bottom of the box it came in says (rev 01).

Heligeek

07-10-07, 04:45 AM

My recommendation is to just host it at ImageShack and give us thumbnails, like so:
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/5889/letterjr7.th.gif (http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/5889/letterjr7.gif)
This way there's no image resolution limit and it won't make a mess of the forum layout.

Also, click that thumbnail for a good chuckle and groan at once.

That letter is unbelievable! I wonder where that teacher is now? Hopefully not teaching. :eek:

Anyway, thanks for the photo host suggestion although it means one more password to keep track of. Let me think about it.

The bottom of my shipping box also says "( Rev 01 )". I'm guessing that's the revision of the box printing, nothing to do with its contents.

rpearlberg

07-10-07, 10:44 AM

dbsc

07-10-07, 12:49 PM

although it means one more password to keep track of
Actually it works by cookies, you click a link once in an email they send you and you're logged in forever. Easy. And well worth it, I've never had any troubles with the service and the price is certainly right.

My retail box also has that number on the bottom.

DrBri99

07-10-07, 01:02 PM

I called samsung and spoke to level 2 support, they said the original firmware has not been updated, and you still cannot change the aspect ratio with s-video or RCA video output.

Scooper

07-10-07, 01:28 PM

If they would fix that, I would be REALLY pleased with it...

joemama127

07-10-07, 01:59 PM

Connection Question....
I have basic comcast cable, with no cable box.
How do I connect this tuner to the tv? I've done it before and was able to get all OTA HD channels, but I just moved and now can't seem to remember how I had it connected...
I have the cable coming from the wall, where does it go? I have the tv, H260F tuner, dvd player, receiver...

Please help!!

What is the best way to connect this for the best picture...Give some details about your equipment such as what connections are available on each and what kind of tuners are built in to your tv....and maybe myself or someone else can give suggestions.

DrBri99

07-10-07, 02:09 PM

Connection Question....
I have basic comcast cable, with no cable box.
How do I connect this tuner to the tv? I've done it before and was able to get all OTA HD channels, but I just moved and now can't seem to remember how I had it connected...
I have the cable coming from the wall, where does it go? I have the tv, H260F tuner, dvd player, receiver...

Please help!!

What is the best way to connect this for the best picture...
cable => h260f
choose your output (HDMI, Component, S-Video) => TV (unless you want the receiver to do the switching)

This is the basic version...if it is more complex let us know what type of connections your receiver and TV have.

Whidbey

07-10-07, 02:24 PM

If they would fix that, I would be REALLY pleased with it...

I second that!

rpearlberg

07-10-07, 02:28 PM

cable => h260f
choose your output (HDMI, Component, S-Video) => TV (unless you want the receiver to do the switching)

This is the basic version...if it is more complex let us know what type of connections your receiver and TV have.
Thanks-
My TV has HDMI, the receiver only has component...is the dvd player involved at all here? I also have a splitter...

The TV is a Samsung LNS4041D
Receiver is an older HTIB Panasonic with no HDMI, just component..
DVD is Samsung R135 with HDMI...

bigpoppa206

07-11-07, 06:01 AM

Thanks-
My TV has HDMI, the receiver only has component...is the dvd player involved at all here? I also have a splitter...

The TV is a Samsung LNS4041D
Receiver is an older HTIB Panasonic with no HDMI, just component..
DVD is Samsung R135 with HDMI...
My setup has the cable going to directly to the H260F then HDMI cable to the TV. DVD player is hooked up through a different connection for me. YMMV.

Heligeek

07-11-07, 12:16 PM

Imagshack Account opened. This posting may be edited multiple times while I figure out how to best compose a posting containing image thumnails. Please pardon my digital dust :)

Alps Tuner:
http://img486.imageshack.us/img486/6739/sh260ftunerlk2.th.jpg (http://img486.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh260ftunerlk2.jpg)

ATI Video Processor Chip:
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/3558/sh260fatitj6.th.jpg (http://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh260fatitj6.jpg)

ROM (Firmware):
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/763/sh260ffirmfq9.th.jpg (http://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh260ffirmfq9.jpg)

HDMI Interface:
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/3830/sh260fhdmichipkv7.th.jpg (http://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh260fhdmichipkv7.jpg)

Chassis Label:
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5194/sh260flabelhx9.th.jpg (http://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh260flabelhx9.jpg)

Boards Overview:
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/9194/sh260fboardsut4.th.jpg (http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh260fboardsut4.jpg)

Power Supply Board:
http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/9423/sh260fpsboardhg1.th.jpg (http://img453.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh260fpsboardhg1.jpg)

Main Board Markings:
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/3640/sh260fboardmarksje9.th.jpg (http://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh260fboardmarksje9.jpg)

Let's see if this works. Any other picture requests?

DrBri99

07-11-07, 12:41 PM

Thanks-
My TV has HDMI, the receiver only has component...is the dvd player involved at all here? I also have a splitter...

The TV is a Samsung LNS4041D
Receiver is an older HTIB Panasonic with no HDMI, just component..
DVD is Samsung R135 with HDMI...

Does your TV have 2 HDMI inputs?

If it does, one for the Samsung Tuner, one for the DVD, and the audio from each going to the receiver (either optical digital or digital coax).

What did your splitter do in the old setup?

dbsc

07-11-07, 02:01 PM

Imagshack Account opened. This posting may be edited multiple times while I figure out how to best compose a posting containing image thumnails. Please pardon my digital dust :)

...

Let's see if this works. Any other picture requests?
That post was pretty much perfect IMO. Certainly not lacking for pictures, I think you covered everything!

If there is any firmware info to be had it's off that sticker on the ROM chip. If I can I'll crack my 260 open and snap a pic to compare, but it might take some time since we use it quite a bit.

Heligeek

07-11-07, 02:30 PM

That post was pretty much perfect IMO. Certainly not lacking for pictures, I think you covered everything!

If there is any firmware info to be had it's off that sticker on the ROM chip. If I can I'll crack my 260 open and snap a pic to compare, but it might take some time since we use it quite a bit.

Thanks for the pat on the back. I try hard...

Maybe I'm thinking of something else but wasn't there a picture or two of one of these tuners back near the beginning of this thread? I'm too busy to dig now but I swear I saw insides of one before opening my first unit. It would have been VERY early in production. Anyone else remember such a posting?

holl_ands

07-11-07, 06:09 PM

Here are pictures inside Samsung DTB-H260F posted by Chuckkey:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8824251&highlight=stb+260#post8824251
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8837172&highlight=gemini#post8837172
and info on the chips:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8868013&highlight=xilleon#post8868013

The original and newer models use the same ATi Xilleon 240H and ALPS tuner modules.

I don't know about youall, but when I click on a <*.th.jpg> file, I only see a small thumbnail--
I have to manually delete "th." from the url to see "the big picture".
So whenever you post a picture, remember to change from <*.th.jpg> to simply <*.jpg>.

Heligeek

07-11-07, 06:58 PM

Here are pictures inside Samsung DTB-H260F posted by Chuckkey:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8824251&highlight=stb+260#post8824251
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8837172&highlight=gemini#post8837172
and info on the chips:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8868013&highlight=xilleon#post8868013

Bingo! That's the stuff I saw. Only I can't read the ROM label clearly enough to get any details off it. Can anyone else?

I don't know about youall, but when I click on a <*.th.jpg> file, I only see a small thumbnail--

Don't know where you're finding such a file. I looked close at the URLs from my thumbs and the earlier pix and couldn't spot the ".th." part of the address. Sorry.