Samsung DTB-H260F ATSC tuner [Text View] - Page 9

Heligeek

07-11-07, 11:23 PM

My ROM:...is different compared to mine...
And my CPU has somewhat different markings from yours (click to enlarge): ..oh how I wish it was that easy! :p Seriously, its date code indicates an earlier batch. 38th week of 2006 for yours vs 41st week of 2006 for mine. What is the date sticker showing on the underside of the chassis? Mine is 2007.03.
That empty header space looks like it might be for a card reader of some sort.Well then, did you happen to notice the long row of parallel holes along the edge of the main PC board on the edge opposite the power supply? Makes me thing "expansion buss" if nothing else.
I want to press the button, but I'm afraid it's the self destruct or something. :)Go on, PUSH IT! You know you want to!!!!

I need to compose a clean posting. There's a big gripe I'm having with the Channel Mangler. "Please stay tuned" (that's a big hint).

dbsc

07-12-07, 12:01 AM

What is the date sticker showing on the underside of the chassis? Mine is 2007.03.From the previous page:There's nothing in the menus that is of any help. There is a sticker on the bottom though, which has a date 2007.01

Well then, did you happen to notice the long row of parallel holes along the edge of the main PC board on the edge opposite the power supply? Makes me thing "expansion buss" if nothing else. I did notice that. I was thinking that both empty spaces were for another application. As I recall someone else in the thread had indicated that the guts of the 260 - or an earlier revision of it anyway - powered some OEM box.

Or it could be even simpler, they're just there to make it easier to bench test the boards during manufacture to see if they can let the smoke out.

Go on, PUSH IT! You know you want to!!!! I'll let someone else brave that first. It's probably just a reset button, but with my luck it's a ROM dump button. :)

I need to compose a clean posting. There's a big gripe I'm having with the Channel Mangler. "Please stay tuned" (that's a big hint).If the gripe is seeing "No data" for many OTA channels then contact the station and tell one of their techs that their PSIP data isn't working with your box.

Heligeek

07-12-07, 01:06 AM

I'm putting a lot of time into tracking down QAM cable stations with this box. There's some fishy stuff going on with the way the Channel Manager remembers what's been found during an intentional channel scan and what's been received when pressing the "CH" Up & Down buttons on the remote.

Since replacing my first H260F with this second box, I've been connected 100% of the time to the Atlanta Comcast system. No OTA reception attempted. Has been both rewarding and frustrating at the same time.

Many of the assigned channel slots, the ones dedicated to the "On-Demand" service (ask me if you don't know what that is), can appear and vanish in the blink of an eye depending upon the program material and the subscriber's whim. If I perform a cable channel scan, invariably I'll log over 300 channels whether scrambled or watchable. Then, through a very tedious process, delete the ones that are of no use. You'd think this would leave me with only "good" channels to watch whenever I please by scanning up or down through what's left in the Manager. HA! It don't work quite that way. I'll try to explain here...

A set range of Comcast digital channel numbers is somewhat flexible in their assignments to programming. I'm referring to the approximate range of 87.1 to 90.1, give-or-take. If a program is actively playing within this range of channels, this active channel will be "collected" by the Channel Manager and added to the master channel list. Obviously if a channel isn't providing a signal, it's skipped over. The On-Demand channels have program sources that are controlled completely by a person (local Comcast subscriber) behind a remote control that asked for that particular program (not the channel - it's picked seemingly at random) and can be started, paused, rewound-F forwarded or stopped at any given moment. If paused or stopped, the active channel showing that program just "goes away" for an indefinite length of time and can be dropped from the master list.

Not so strangely, if the channel being watched stays active, the H260's Channel Manager keeps that channel number memorized. If you decide to look elsewhere for programming and use the Up/Down channel keys as a means to scan, that active channel can be returned to at any time. But if while you're hunting for new program content and the last-viewed channel goes off (program ends or otherwise stopped), scanning back to that channel only results in the H260 skipping past to the next active channel in line but also deletes the once-active channel from the master listing.

I thought I was losing my mind when instead I was simply losing channels out of the Channel Manager screen. Tonight I made notes on a pad of paper indicating which channels were active in the previously mentioned range of 87.1 to 90.1. I don't have the best memory for recalling number just seen but I was sure, for example, 88.9 was hot and made sure it was logged into the Channel Manager screen. It was, but when the signal was lost on 88.9 and skipped while doing the Up/Down channel hunt, I went back into the Channel Manager and WHOA, IT'S GONE!

More printed notes taken on channels active and NOT originally in the CM listing. Whenever I'd happen upon a "hot" channel, I'd then look at the CM list and there's the new channel number with the check mark next to it. If I lose that channel through it going off-air, it's also erased from the CM listing. THAT, I didn't expect and don't like. If I go through the effort to find and log a channel into the Manager I expect it to stay there until further notice, NOT be deleted! And along the same subject line, there's still no way to manually add a channel into the CM unless that particular channel number is currently broadcasting. And then of course that channel's automatically deleted if NOT broadcasting and you happen to try to switch over to it. Frustrating...

Anyone else here go through the same pain of trying to keep track of channels? I would imagine using a rotating antenna and being on the edge of strong reception if pointed in the wrong direction could cause Channel Manager problems too if a scan was performed in a favorite direction. Anyone?

dbsc

07-12-07, 03:30 AM

Actually with OTA the channel manager thing will dumbly keep a channel that's gone dead. Several times I've received stations which are out of my normal range, always at night when conditions are just right. The next day the channel is still in the manager and would stay there forever if I didn't get irritated by the dead channels and rescan just to make them go away.

As to the PPV or on demand ranges, if I were you I'd just identify exactly what those ranges are and consider them unconsidered but nice if one happens to be something you want at that particular time. You're going to drive yourself bonkers chasing down dynamic streams otherwise.

John Mason

07-12-07, 07:40 AM

There's a recent thread--believe in the programming forum--about QAM tuners getting neighbor's (or local node?) VOD (plus PPV?) selections. So, if you QAM-scan when lots of VOD or PPV channels are temporarily present, perhaps that's the cause of 'disappearing' channels. Haven't scanned all the thread, so sorry if this has been raised earlier. -- John

Whidbey

07-12-07, 09:19 AM

Anyone else here go through the same pain of trying to keep track of channels? I would imagine using a rotating antenna and being on the edge of strong reception if pointed in the wrong direction could cause Channel Manager problems too if a scan was performed in a favorite direction. Anyone?

I use a rotator and have not experienced the same issues you have. I scanned in every direction I wanted to get channels from and then went back and entered the numbers manually that I wanted. The only ones that didn't work were the ones that shared the same virtual number as another channels actual number. But, those were being broadcast from far away so I doubt I would have picked them up anyway.
I've read on this forum and elsewhere about people having problems getting this box to keep track of their channels. Mine's only a couple weeks old, I wonder if Samsung made a slight firmware update recently?

James

fanara

07-12-07, 09:58 AM

[QUOTE=Heligeek] There's some fishy stuff going on with the way the Channel Manager remembers what's been found during an intentional channel scan and what's been received when pressing the "CH" Up & Down buttons on the remote.

I am experiencing the same thing and I'm with Rogers Cable. I just don't have the time right now to investigate like you did (three boys in sports) but I was thinking that the stations that flash for a second then disappear might be scrambled (HDTV) channels that are unscrambled for a second?

dbsc

07-12-07, 11:48 AM

but I was thinking that the stations that flash for a second then disappear might be scrambled (HDTV) channels that are unscrambled for a second?
Many but not all cable companies transmit the stations you could get OTA with an antenna. The channel numbers are almost always different, and as far as I know the stations are usually sent through the cable in the same format (480i/p, 720p, 1080i) they came in OTA so just being a HDTV stream doesn't mean it's always "scrambled". They do tend to do that with the premium HDTV signals like Discovery or the sports channels, but those wouldn't blip on like you indicated they'd be unavailable all the time without the cable co box.

Far more likely the wacky channels are neighborhood PPV/OD I'd think.

toby10

07-13-07, 10:05 AM

joemama127

07-13-07, 11:29 AM

I'm using the H260f on WOW cable (Wide Open West) in Cleveland Ohio. The H260f works fine for OTA. But I cannot seem to get ANY cable channels into the unit. I have tried the following on cable channel scans:

- direct feed of RG6 coax cable (before cable STB) searching on CABLE, HRC, IRC

- after cable STB (RG6 coax out from STB) searching on CABLE, HRC, IRC

Results of all six methods above are zilch! Some of the above channel scans result in "100 channels found" but none are viewable.

Any ideas? Suggestions? Comments?

Thanks :)QAM scans are a crapshoot....I recently moved from a large market were there was a lot available OTA and QAM (DFW) to a smaller market which only gives me ABC, CBS OTA and nothing worthwhile QAM. If you aren't getting anything at all (which is possible but unlikely) then you might want to try your next scan with the cable coming straight from the wall to the Sammy....bypassing any splitters, A/B switches and such.

edit- I see that it appears you have tried the direct feed? You might check the "local HD programming" subforum and see what should be available in your area and try tuning manually.

rpearlberg

07-16-07, 01:10 PM

I had this tuner hooked up with basic Comcast cable and got the OTA HD Channels. We just switched to Directv. Can this Tuner be used to get the OTA HD? If so, how do I need to connect it...
Thanks.

paulstefano

07-16-07, 03:35 PM

Can anybody compare the tuner in this box to the Directv HR20 DVR?

Scooper

07-16-07, 06:08 PM

I had this tuner hooked up with basic Comcast cable and got the OTA HD Channels. We just switched to Directv. Can this Tuner be used to get the OTA HD? If so, how do I need to connect it...
Thanks.

Connect the Antenna in port to an antenna.
Conncect the Component / HDMI outputs to your HDTV display.

indie_dev

07-17-07, 10:18 AM

I had this tuner hooked up with basic Comcast cable and got the OTA HD Channels. We just switched to Directv. Can this Tuner be used to get the OTA HD? If so, how do I need to connect it...
Thanks.

DirecTV now broadcasts local HD channels in some areas. So if your area is one of those, you no longer need your tuner because you can get local HD channels from D*

dbsc

07-17-07, 12:45 PM

DirecTV now broadcasts local HD channels in some areas. So if your area is one of those, you no longer need your tuner because you can get local HD channels from D*
Dish advertised locals in my area like crazy. What I ended up getting was an OTA antenna installed from them and their box would tune in a few channels off it. And for that they wanted five bucks a month.

Dish has long since been dropped and I'm doing the OTA thing with the 260. One more in a long line of things Dish did to piss me off. I don't imagine DirecTV would be too terribly different.

holl_ands

07-17-07, 03:36 PM

DirecTV now broadcasts local HD channels in some areas. So if your area is one of those, you no longer need your tuner because you can get local HD channels from D*

There are few (if any) areas that receive ALL local HD stations (e.g PBS-HD) via either D* (or E*).

indie_dev

07-17-07, 04:07 PM

There are few (if any) areas that receive ALL local HD stations (e.g PBS-HD) via either D* (or E*).

I live is SOFLA and receive all of them via my 5LMB D* dish.

Budget_HT

07-17-07, 04:18 PM

I live is SOFLA and receive all of them via my 5LMB D* dish.
Please elaborate.

All local HDTV channels via DirecTV satellite? Major networks, including PBS, and independent stations?

Most markets are only getting ABC, CBS, FOX and NBC from DirecTV for local HDTV stations. But, fortunately, the DirecTV receivers incorporate OTA (antenna) received local HDTV channels nicely with the same program guide and integrated tuning.

indie_dev

07-17-07, 04:40 PM

Yes (http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp?latitude=26%2E09729&longitude=%2D80%2E40645&magnetic_north=5%2E33&range=150&sort=channel&show_expired=True&show_construction=True&show_analog=False&show_low_power=False&action=Show+Stations). I have a few H20 receivers and a 5LMB (KA/KV) dish.

btw SOFLA = South Florida

holl_ands

07-17-07, 08:42 PM

Checked Miami, Key West, Orlando and Tampa on D* local HD site: only big four networks...no PBS-HD, CW-HD or MyN-HD.

Since your "Yes" link is for OTA, you must be using an OTA antenna to receive them via ATSC.

Unfortunately, OTA doesn't work for a lot of people...

indie_dev

07-18-07, 08:32 AM

I only used the "yes" link to show my local station coverage, without having to type it all up.

Ack!! I should have been clearer I suppose. :D

For stations that I don't get in HD on D*, I have a Winegard GS2200 connected to the same RG6 run as D* and split at the receiver. So yeah, I do get all local channels via D*. Some in HD and some not (those go through the OTA).

As I type this, my daughter (on Summer break) is curled up on the sofa in my den watching Dragon Tales on PBS.

winghus

07-19-07, 07:58 AM

toby10

07-19-07, 06:09 PM

Did you try a scan in cable==>STD mode(pretty sure the 3rd option is STD, I'm at work now so I can't check for sure)? Originally my QAM channels came in in HRC mode but one day half of them disappeared and a rescan in STD mode got them back.
I did not see a STD mode. I did try all the others ( cable, hrc, irc). Also tried scanning in cable and cable + air under all three, no luck. :( It picks up the OTA with no trouble every time (as to be expected).

dbsc

07-19-07, 06:33 PM

There should be a std choice in the same place as hrc and irc are.

The Hound

07-23-07, 03:34 AM

Some where in this thread it was stated that PPV programing bleeding from nieghboring appartments is picked up by the 260 using QAM.
I use the 260 for OTA.
I have a station on the fringe that goes in and out.
I can uncheck it in the CM so when I move through the channels it skips this station all together.
What I can't do is remove it from the program guide, so every time I hit guide it stops and trys to find PSIP info for a station that's not there.

I'm using the H260f on WOW cable (Wide Open West) in Cleveland Ohio. The H260f works fine for OTA. But I cannot seem to get ANY cable channels into the unit. I have tried the following on cable channel scans:

- direct feed of RG6 coax cable (before cable STB) searching on CABLE, HRC, IRC

- after cable STB (RG6 coax out from STB) searching on CABLE, HRC, IRC

Results of all six methods above are zilch! Some of the above channel scans result in "100 channels found" but none are viewable.

Any ideas? Suggestions? Comments?

Thanks
@Toby10
The 260 only has an ATSC tuner.
It is possible that your basic cable (were most local stations reside) is only transmitted over NTSC.
In which case you would get nothing because the 260 doesn't have an NTSC tuner.
Hope I helped.

jimcrow21

07-23-07, 04:29 AM

toby10

07-23-07, 07:23 AM

[

@Toby10
The 260 only has an ATSC tuner.
It is possible that your basic cable (were most local stations reside) is only transmitted over NTSC.
In which case you would get nothing because the 260 doesn't have an NTSC tuner.
Hope I helped.[/QUOTE]

That is what I now suspect. Thanks

toby10

07-23-07, 07:30 AM

Anyone have luck using this in Los Angeles Area Charter? I'm especially interested if its able to pick up the Chinese Digital channels 79-1 to 79-6 I believe, or something like that.

My Sharp 26" LCD picked it up, and so did my Panny TC32LX60, but the panny didn't get any audio for those specific channels (everything else was fine). I heard this unit is slow in turning on....is it slowing when changing channels? Thanks
It is odd your Panny properly received video but not audio. There might be some menu setting in your Panny to access audio under TV/OTA settings.

The 260 does start up slow, but I have never experienced any slowness in changing channels.

DonB2

07-23-07, 01:56 PM

Recently I lost all the EPG info here in Raleigh NC. Now I wonder how it is transmitted and who sends the clock info and what do people do that receive channels from two different side by side time zones?

Anyway presently when I select the EPG guide all I get for every time slot and every channel is "No information"

When I select info there is a message stating "Time missing" or something to that effect.

Anyone else experience this?

Should I do a auto channel scan again?

DOnB2

Rammitinski

07-23-07, 03:44 PM

It is odd your Panny properly received video but not audio. There might be some menu setting in your Panny to access audio under TV/OTA settings.If those channels are normally encrypted, it is actually pretty common for clear-QAM tuners to pick up the video from some of those channels sans the audio.

I think you were just lucky that the other two tuners picked them up w/both V&A (which occasionally happens with some tuners, also).

You never can tell what your going to pick up from one tuner to the next, as far as anything that's normally encrypted.

100/40

07-23-07, 07:39 PM

toby10, my 260 has a QAM tuner as well as ATSC. I get local stations from cable as well as some pay per view that floats around. I suppose some day those will go but the locals are HD when they broadcast that way. COX cable, East coast.

DonB2

07-24-07, 10:20 AM

In case anyone out there is using these tuners for OTA which should display EPG I have found that the issue I mentioned about no information on EPG appears to be caused by one local ATSC station. If I select any other OTA ATSC station the EPG works fine and all info is displayed for all stations except the one bad one.

-Donb2

dmatch

07-24-07, 11:11 AM

Does the offending channel map to its branded (Virtual) channel number? I am just curious as I have found 2 channels locally that my HDTV can NOT map and therefore does not generate an EPG. On yet another channel the date/time is set in the year 2025 and it does not display EPG either.

dmatch

DonB2

07-24-07, 01:38 PM

dmatch,

The station is in Raleigh NC and it is mapped to 11.1 which is what is displayed on my Samsung. The actual frequency is 52.

-Don

jimcrow21

07-24-07, 06:00 PM

I bought this from CC, plugged it into my cable feed, and scanned using the cable setting, on all three STD, HRC, and IRC. Picks up 0 analog and 0 digital channels. On my sharp TV using the same line, I pick up all the analog and a good amount of digital using the built-in QAM tuner. What gives? I have Charter and I live in the Los Angeles area, near Pasadena. I remember someone saying they used this on a Charter line and picked up channels, but I'm getting jack squat. ATSC tuning is fine and everything is plugged in correctly. Please HELP!

EDIT - I just called Samsung support, got transfered up to level 2 tech support, and was told after giving the guy my serial no. that the unit I had has the latest firmware. I was told the unit was faulty and that I should trade it in for an another one. Anyone else experience the same thing?

bcarlsen

07-24-07, 07:31 PM

jimcrow21

07-24-07, 08:23 PM

The 260 is a digital set top box - it will not receive any analog stations. Your tv must have an NTSC tuner to pick up analog stations.

Are you getting your local stations in HD on your tv's tuner? These are the stations you should be trying to get using the 260. The unit does take a very long time to switch channels, sometimes 5 or 6 seconds. Be sure that your tv is getting digital stations (channel should have a dash or dot in it) and try to tune the 260 to the same channel.

What are you using this box for if your tv already has the necessary tuners? A projector or a different digital tv that does not have any built-in tuners?

This box is meant for a 5 year old HDTV ready CRT projection TV. I was merely using my LCD on the cable line to see if digital channels in the clear existed on that line - it did. After that, I plugged it into the 260 and nothing. 0 analog channels and 0 digital. It is capable of picking up analog channels, at least thru cable, otherwise it wouldn't bother scanning for it now would it? I'm well aware of the hypen/dot system in labeling digital channels. In fact, I was looking to pick up 79-6, but to no avail.

I'm sure your intentions are good but don't treat me like some consumer-level user. I know a good amount of AV stuff.

dbsc

07-24-07, 08:41 PM

I'm sure your intentions are good but don't treat me like some consumer-level user. I know a good amount of AV stuff.
Apparently not. bcarlsen informed you the 260 only has a digital tuner, no analog. A quick glance at the small manual that came with it will confirm it if you don't want to believe anyone else.

The tech was right. Get an exchange. So far that's cured nearly all big issues - the ones that weren't consumer-level ignorance - people have had in this thread.

jimcrow21

07-24-07, 09:36 PM

Apparently not. bcarlsen informed you the 260 only has a digital tuner, no analog. A quick glance at the small manual that came with it will confirm it if you don't want to believe anyone else.

The tech was right. Get an exchange. So far that's cured nearly all big issues - the ones that weren't consumer-level ignorance - people have had in this thread.

Read what I wrote, I was looking for basic cable channels, not NTSC over the air. The box does support basic, analog cable channels, which is why it scans for analog cable channels (I know it doesn't scan for analog air channels, but thats moot because I wasn't looking for them in the first place). In channel surfing, there DTV Air, DTV Cable, and just "Cable." That should prove to you that there is an analog tuner in it, though only used on cable feeds.

Scooper

07-24-07, 10:01 PM

No it doesn't - no analog capability AT ALL. Just passthrough. It is primarily intended for OTA ATSC reception, but it also has a Clear QAM tuner as well.

And for someone who "know a good amount of AV stuff" - you sure can't RTFM.

dbsc

07-24-07, 11:12 PM

I'm stepping back out of this particular conversation before I say what I really think to Mr. 21 and get banned or something.

yekim54

07-25-07, 12:42 AM

I know a good amount of AV stuff.Cool, now we know who to turn to when we need complex technical help!

The Hound

07-25-07, 02:26 AM

Getting back to what DonB and dmatch were talking about.
Is EPG the same as PSIP?
I am talking OTA here.
In my area the stations regularly check the local DTV thread.
When we have lost guide info and posted about it, it has been corrected very qiuckly.
When PBS wasn't mapping and no guide info there engineer fixed it.
It's worth a try.

Oh and there is no NTSC tuner in this box.

kb7oeb

07-25-07, 03:03 AM

When I see problems like that I email the engineering contact for the station, usually I get an email back and its fixed.

dbsc

07-25-07, 04:03 AM

Is EPG the same as PSIP?
I am talking OTA here.
The info in the EPG is part of the PSIP data, the 260 gathers it from the various channels and presents it in that guide format. Compare to Dish for instance which grabs it all as a large chunk at 4 AM (if you're lucky but that's another thread).

toby10

07-25-07, 07:43 AM

This box is meant for a 5 year old HDTV ready CRT projection TV. I was merely using my LCD on the cable line to see if digital channels in the clear existed on that line - it did. After that, I plugged it into the 260 and nothing. 0 analog channels and 0 digital. It is capable of picking up analog channels, at least thru cable, otherwise it wouldn't bother scanning for it now would it? I'm well aware of the hypen/dot system in labeling digital channels. In fact, I was looking to pick up 79-6, but to no avail.

I'm sure your intentions are good but don't treat me like some consumer-level user. I know a good amount of AV stuff.
Well, I *am* the consumer-level-user and the friendly, knowledgable (and patient, I might add) forum members have shared their experience and knowledge to all who ask.

It is possible that you and I have the same problem in picking up a cable feed through the 260. After doing every possible scan combination I get only OTA, no cable. As the forum members here have pointed out, my unencrypted cable feed is probably analog NTSC and therefore is not recognized by the digital only 260 receiver.

Luckily my sole purpose in obtaining the 260 was OTA HD which is rock solid in PQ, but thought I would try the cable feed as well.

DrBri99

07-25-07, 07:57 AM

Check if there is a forum for your town/city. If others are getting clear QAM channels, you should also with the 260.

toby10

07-25-07, 09:10 AM

Check if there is a forum for your town/city. If others are getting clear QAM channels, you should also with the 260.
Thanks DrBri99. I have done just that. I'm using WOW Cable in Cleveland OH, but there appears to be no other WOW customers here who are also on the AVS forums and using the 260. Again, it is really not a big deal as I am getting my OTA HD channels with the 260. I only tinkered with the ability to also get unencrypted cable through the 260 once I saw it was (might be) available.

It's the same when I recently purchased a new Yamaha AV receiver. It came with an AM antenna so I hooked it up and set the AM channels. I have never in the past, nor plan to in the future, listen to AM broadcasts at home. Being human, if it is there we must tinker. :)

dbsc

07-25-07, 01:05 PM

but there appears to be no other WOW customers here who are also on the AVS forums and using the 260
They don't need to be using the 260 specifically, just a QAM tuner pulling unencrypted channels. Brand isn't as important just to determine if there is anything there. :)

Cleveland, OH thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=287017) with 10 gazillion pages.. I was gonna take a quick look to satisfy my own curiosity but damn, that's a little much.

DonB2

07-25-07, 01:43 PM

jimcrow21,

Make sure you press the Ant button at the top of your remote so the Samsung knows it is looking for Cable channels vs OTA ATSC channels. Samsung in their infinite wisdom combined the both on one coax connection.

Just recently when I was rescanning my OTA ATSC channels trying to fix my EPG issue I accidently had the Ant switch in the wrong position and it found no OTA ATSC channels on the OTA side.

And it is only a pushbutton switch so no discrete cable or discrete OTA.

But I humbly have to agree that what you will receive if you do get it working is ATSC digital cable channels not Analog NTSC.

-Good Luck

Don

toby10

07-26-07, 11:58 AM

They don't need to be using the 260 specifically, just a QAM tuner pulling unencrypted channels. Brand isn't as important just to determine if there is anything there. :)

Cleveland, OH thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=287017) with 10 gazillion pages.. I was gonna take a quick look to satisfy my own curiosity but damn, that's a little much.
Yeah, the Cleveland HD thread is quite long cuz the Cleveland HD market has many issues & problems.

jzareski

07-28-07, 12:59 PM

Read what I wrote, I was looking for basic cable channels, not NTSC over the air. The box does support basic, analog cable channels, which is why it scans for analog cable channels (I know it doesn't scan for analog air channels, but thats moot because I wasn't looking for them in the first place). In channel surfing, there DTV Air, DTV Cable, and just "Cable." That should prove to you that there is an analog tuner in it, though only used on cable feeds.

A matter of semantics?

Maybe what Jim was looking for is an answer that if his CableTV specific system carried ASD, analog simulcast digital, in the clear for basic service, would the Samsung DTB-H260F receive it...???

As a side step, my Comcast CT system, currently carries the analog (NTSC) OTA channels in the "Basic" tier. All the OTA and non OTA that are in the "Basic" tier are also carried as digital simulcast equivalents in open QAM, along with a couple of ATSC OTA channels in open QAM too. The Samsung DTB-H260F receives them with no problems.

Basic Cable 26 channels + Expanded Basic Cable Ch 2-98 channels Service.
Open QAM STB (VS Cable Ready TV Analog) - The (..) are the analog cable NTSC channels.

Samsung DTB-H260F STB.

3-1 WFSB HD 1080i 16:9
8-1 WTNH HD 720p 16:9
20-1 WTXX HD 1080i 16:9
20-2 WTXX Tu 480i 4:3
24-1 WEDH-HD 1080i 16:9
30-1 WVIT HD 1080i 16:9
30-2 WVIT We 480i 4:3
61-1 WTIC HD 720p 16:9

74-1 CVC Public (5)
74-11 CVC Gov Acc (17)
74-16 CVC Ed (19)
76-8 NECN (20)
77-7 TBS (16)
77-9 ESPN (29) - Noted no default audio from QAM (Expanded Service)
79-1 C-SPAN (22)
79-2 C-SPAN2 / MSG (98) Time shares
79-7 CNN (62) - Noted no default audio from QAM (Expanded Service)
79-9 HSN (71)
79-10 QVC (23)
79-12 Headlines News (61) - Noted no default audio from QAM (Expanded Service)

80-2 WTXX (11)
80-3 WUVN (18)
80-4 WVIT (4)
80-5 WCTX (9)
80-6 CPTV (7)
80-7 WFSB (2)
80-8 WHPX (10)
80-9 WRDM (13)
80-11 WTIC (6)
80-12 WTNH (8)
81-1 CT-N (15)
81-5 Jewelry / Horse Racing etc. (96) Time shares
81-7 WGBY (12)
81-8 WWLP (14)
81-10 CN8 (3)
81-11 EWTN (21)
81-12 Color Bars - Noted no default audio from QAM (Expanded Service)

83-3 ON DEMAND promos. Displays with two pictures.
83-4 > 121-9 Noted Random on Demand

What the Samsung DTB-H260F does not receive, because it only has an ATSC and QAM tuner (no NTSC tuner) is OTA NTSC analog feeds or CableTV NTSC analog feeds.

The Samsung DTB-H260F does not receive the "Expanded" basic tier (What I believe your asking about - like the Discovery, Food, History, SCI-FI, TLC, etc., etc., services, which are typically ASD as well but are in encrypted QAM.

The Samsung DTB-H260F antenna out "F" connector is an active (amplified) RF pass through. If the STB is off, pass through signal suffers.

And as noted by others in the forum, make sure the Samsung DTB H260F "Antenna" switch is in "DTV Cable" and not in "DTV Air".

There have been postings of DOA Samsung DTB-H260F that were returned and replacements solved problems with no reception.

Note also postings of disintegrated out of house and in house drop problems with bad cables, connectors and splitters, signal levels, etc...

The lucky? forum members that have two STBs, DTVs and or DCRs, have it a little easier...They have at their command immediate cross reference devices to check against...so when something looks or smells fishy, it's not necessarily lunch or the cat litter box...it may be the operator or STB...sometimes patience gets a little stretched, different use of new terminology...semantics...etc.

But generally, we're all into sharing experiences and helping others...

If this is not the right answer, keep looking left, you'll find it...

Good luck...

Rammitinski

07-28-07, 08:14 PM

If his TV has an NTSC tuner all he has to do is connect a "pass-through" coax from the Samsung tuner to the TV, and then scan for the analog cable channels with the TV's tuner. Then he can just switch to the TV input to watch the analog cable channels.

If his TV by chance doesn't have an NTSC tuner, he can just add an old VCR or DVD recorder with one in between the Samsung tuner and the TV.

paulstefano

07-28-07, 11:42 PM

I bought one of these at Circuit City today. I was hoping it would help me with picking adjacent channel interference. It helped a little. I can get a signal to read, but it's not strong enough to process and watch.

As for what it did pickup:

I was able to pick up channel 49, 33 miles away with a Winegard PR-8800. I also was able to pick up all 4 local networks that are 180 degrees behind the antenna! I have to say, the tuner is VERY good.

With my DTV HR20, I couldn't even pick up channel 49, but the Samsung held it solidly.

I will probably return this unit, because it really didn't do what I wanted it to, but I can vouch for the strength of the tuner, and help with multipath.

jmscott42

07-29-07, 09:27 PM

FWIW, I tried this tuner with a 32" Toshiba (don't know exact model number, but it's about 3 years old, 4:3 format SD CRT) with "Color Stream" inputs and I got the exact same problem. A noticeable purple/bluish tint over everything. It does not happen with composite or s-video inputs from the tuner. The component inputs work normally with a Sony DVD player. I didn't really care because the Toshiba was only a temporary tv. The same tuner works perfectly over component with my new HDTV LCD. The only thing I can think is that it's a problem with Toshiba's component inputs.

Hope you figure out a solution!

Did anyone ever figure out a solution to this?

I picked up a couple of these today from Circuit City as open box. Couldn't pass it up. I'm in a bit of a different situation, the TV it's hooked up to has no component inputs, but the receiver in the system will do Component->Svideo downconversion. When hooked up through this setup, BOTH units show a very strong purple tint, whereas an old Apex DVD player works fine with proper colors.

I am hoping to try a TV with component in but it's unfortunately a few-year-old standard def Toshiba that fits the description from SysteX about his so I'm afraid it's going to have the same issues.

ghken

07-30-07, 08:38 AM

Did anyone ever figure out a solution to this?

Haven't yet seen a resolution or explanation of why this happens. I brought my Samsung home a few months back and hooked it up via component to my two Sony Wega analog sets to play around with before moving it to my projector (HDMI).

On my older Wega (approx 7 years old), the component input worked fine. On the newer one (approx 4 years old), I got the Jimi Hendrix version - purple haze. I actually brought two units home - the first one was returned because of other problems - but both units exhibited the same tint problem on the newer Wega.

HDMI connection problems I can understand, but component? It's just strange.

jmscott42

07-30-07, 11:41 AM

I just got off the phone with Samsung who of course insist everything is fine and it must be the TV (purple picture via component). Doesn't explain why I've never had issues with any other equipment and why others have this problem.

They want me to try another TV (Which I was going to do anyway) and get back to them, but it doesn't seem promising. (I'm sure they use "Try another TV" in hopes it works fine so they can just say "See, box is fine" when it's obviously outputting a wacky component signal-- probably just slightly too much signal on every line so some TVs just don't know how to handle it. I've never seen any other device do this unless the component cables were mis-connected)

brewtownska

07-30-07, 02:05 PM

jmscott42,

Could there be any limitations on your receiver as to what resolution the component signal needs to be (480i/p, 720p, 1080i/p) for it to properly downconvert? Have you tried changing the Samsung box to output different resolutions via component to see if that makes any difference? If that doesn't have anything to do with it, I assume you've verified the tuner has it's Y-Pb-Pr/HDMI switch pushed over to Y-Pb-Pr to make sure it's putting out a component signal?

jmscott42

07-30-07, 07:16 PM

It seems to require a 480i signal to properly convert (I.e., it does the bare minimum conversion), but I have tried with the Samsung set to every possible position and either get no signal or the purple haze...

jmscott42

07-30-07, 10:44 PM

Well, as I sort of expected, got the purple haze on the Toshiba 36A61 36" 480i SDTV. Everything on this TV is hooked up through component and nothing has this issue (including a Samsung DVD player)

Definitely something wacky going on with the H260...

PinkSplice

07-30-07, 11:12 PM

Finally got around to buying the DTB-260F, as my local CC finally had them in stock. I had been looking forward to trying it out for months, as I live in sight of half of the STL markets' xmtrs (four megawatt xmtrs within 5 km/3 mi, plus nearly a dozen FM's), have an AM radio station 500 meters away, plus the Clayton skyscraper complex five miles off for multipath. The vaunted 5th gen receiver should be the answer to dealing with all that, right? Not to mention the DX potential.

I tried the unit on both of my 720p sets with HDMI. As I knew before buying, the remote is useless if the set only accepts composite or S-Video. Testing was done under all kinds of variable tropo conditions from dead, to moderately hot, on three seperate antenna feeds. Feeds were direct, with no amps or splitting/diplexing.

Results: very slight improvements on general S/N on the same locals my 4th gen recievers were picking up, with one exception. The 4th gen recivers were able to pick up WRBU-46/47 (my single worst signal, locally) and the 260 was not!

WTF?!?

It's humiliating when the Magnavox SD DVD/VCR combo outperforms a dedicated Samsung reciever.

Guide functions were acceptable, but the signal stregnth indicator gave indications in bars only.

For DX'ing, I would estimate about a 10% percieved improvement over 4th gen recievers, max. Not worth the premium I paid for the unit. There were occasions when the Magnavox would lock well before the Samsung, using the same antenna setup.

Back to CC the box went. The 6th gen reciever had better come with a sex droid, to make up for the letdown over this box.

dbsc

07-30-07, 11:29 PM

It's humiliating when the Magnavox SD DVD/VCR combo outperforms a dedicated Samsung reciever.You have a DVD/VCR with an ATSC tuner? Got a link to a product page, ideally from Maganvox directly? I'm just curious about it, not doubting you.

Back to CC the box went. The 6th gen reciever had better come with a sex droid, to make up for the letdown over this box.A Real Doll with it's own ATSC tuner..? ;)

Rammitinski

07-31-07, 12:08 AM

You have a DVD/VCR with an ATSC tuner? Got a link to a product page, ideally from Maganvox directly? I'm just curious about it, not doubting you...?He's talking about a recorder.

Almost every VCR/DVD recorder that's come out in the past few months has an ATSC/QAM tuner. A few don't have any tuner at all.

PinkSplice

07-31-07, 10:58 AM

Since the ATSC tuner in the Mag is contained within a DVD/VCR recorder combo, the thread is elswhere (AVS members are quite topic-sensitive)

This thread covers my Magnavox:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=831328

Most DVD/VCR recorders with NTSC-only tuners are being marked down now. As noted, the first ATSC DVD/VCR combo's have thier issues. Next year, there should be better units for sale from most manufacturers. I've sampled most of the units available this year, and only the LG and Mag units seemed cost-effective for me.

physicsguy52

08-01-07, 12:08 AM

I returned the Samsung box to Circuit City on day#30 (today), even though I only paid $99 for it on the open box table. What a joke! Screwed up aspect ratio for either 4:3 or 16:9, by allowing only one setting; can't detect stream info off of QAM (but maybe comcast's fault); no channel labeling (so you have to remember, e.g., QAM 117-3 or whatever is XYZ network); sometimes the HDCP confused my Toshiba so I had to cycle the unit or the Toshiba on and off to get sound; had to manually delete encrypted and music stations; no channel overlay for rotating antenna and retuning. The only good thing I can say for the Sammie is excellent reception, but the credit for that probably belongs to ATI. Korean usability software is always a rushed joke so far.

I placed an order for the much awaited epvision PHD-205. See that forum for details.

100/40

08-01-07, 09:37 AM

Posted by physicguy52
The only good thing I can say for the Sammie is excellent reception,

That's what I paid for. Turn it on, select channel and watch TV. The other stuff is too confusing.

wildwillie6

08-01-07, 09:53 AM

Posted by physicguy52
The only good thing I can say for the Sammie is excellent reception

I too get excellent reception with this box. Do you suppose Samsung would consider putting that circuitry into a DVD or HDD or HDTV recorder? :confused:

OWENF

08-01-07, 10:18 AM

Budget_HT

08-01-07, 10:28 AM

What are the draw backs when using the 260 with a sdtv 27" using composite a/v inputs only ? No hdtv yet and none in the near future. I have used the first generation sirt151 and it was ok for ota which was about 13 miles away.
Please advise
Regards Owenf
One limitation of the 260 is the lack of displaying channel number, menu's, other text, etc. on the composite and S-video outputs. In other words, you can only see menus, etc., on the component or HDMI outputs.

So in your case, you might be better off with the 451 (I have used/tested both).

Scooper

08-01-07, 10:55 AM

Budget_HD beat me to it - the total lack of menus and aspect control on the composite and S-video outputs. For setting it up, you can get the menus by using the green component set to 480i, but even that won't give you a viewable signal meter. Or you could use a LCD monitor that has a DVI input and use an HDMI/DVI-D converter cable ( I do have this).

The aspect control problem is best explained like this -
4:3 TV program - it comes out full screen in correct aspect ratio
16:9 TV program - you get the full 16:9 image squeezed into the 4:3 display (no letterbox, not correct aspect ratios - everything is squeezed horizontally)

I've been looking at one of these - http://svideo.com/appletv2tv.html to take care of those points.

DonB2

08-01-07, 11:23 AM

"though I only paid $99 for it on the open box table."

That was good price!! I may pick one up as a spare if I see that kind of price.

"I placed an order for the much awaited epvision PHD-205. See that forum for details. "

Ok I will bite! Where is the forum?

-DonB2

jmscott42

08-01-07, 12:57 PM

CC has been dropping these, I got mine for $79.99 (no box).. might want to keep an eye out at local stores.

Still not sure what to do about the purple. Especially as that ePVision unit looks really interesting... is there an ETA for people receiving units? I might hold on to the Samsung until some initial ePVision units make it out.

Getting the Samsung for so cheap was a steal, I hate not being able to make it work!! :/ (SVideo would be fine for me except for all the stuff it's lacking on the SVideo outs..)

DonB2

08-01-07, 01:44 PM

jmscott42,

I found another forum thru google talking about the ePVision and I can't figure how the person on EBAY is selling them if they are not even being shipped.

$79.99 (no box) for a Samsung- I like that better. I don't even need a remote . I have been using my universal for a long time and just about forget about the original Samsung remote.

I was about to recomend a Samsung to my brother in law until I remembered he still is using 4:3. If the ePVision hits the streets I may suggest that to him.

-DonB2

jmscott42

08-01-07, 06:04 PM

Just ordered the Epvision box-- they responded to my questions about it very quickly, assured me it has all of the "problems" with the Samsung fixed (although it looks like it's SVideo only for 480i [component only says 480p/720p/etc] but that's fine, really), and they said they'd be shipping around Monday (and the $10 off will go away Monday).

I may regret jumping into it, but if it really is about the same as the Samsung box except with the proper aspect ratio it'll totally be worth it.

physicsguy52

08-01-07, 08:37 PM

DonB2,
It is reasonably hinted from the name of the vendor on ebay that they are one and the same as epvision. Why they are selling 5 units on ebay when they have pre-orders waiting for weeks, I don't know. That's why I feared the ebay units might be early lemons.

Avio

08-01-07, 08:39 PM

"I placed an order for the much awaited epvision PHD-205. See that forum for details. "

Ok I will bite! Where is the forum?Maybe he meant this thread:

PrimeDTV PHD-101/ PHD-200 ATSC/QAM Tuner Official Thread

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11171944&highlight=PHD+205#post11171944

Avio

DonB2

08-02-07, 10:43 AM

Avio.

Yes that does look like it. It appears we all need a epvision PHD-205 speciific forum page so clueless people like me can locate it. :)

I was trying to think what I could use a second STB for, and am almost thinking of getting a second ATSC STB and maybe a EPVISION to use dedicated to my DVD recorder until the ATSC recorders get more features and less bugs.

DonB2

[Square]

08-03-07, 11:22 AM

Any help would be appreciated on this question. I have a projector and need to get a box so that I can get one of the network channels in HD (there is a dispute between them and the cable company). Normally it is not a big deal, but the problem is that football starts soon and a lot of the College games end up on this channel. Now, non-hd football makes the baby jebus cry, so I am trying to figure out a workaround without spending a ton of money. I think I found a deal on a used Samsung without a remote control. Now, I will literally only use this box for that one channel 95% of the time. Can you run this thing without a remote control? I'd love to save the money, but don't want to end up not being able to make it work when I need it. Owners...what say you?

joemama127

08-03-07, 11:28 AM

']Any help would be appreciated on this question. I have a projector and need to get a box so that I can get one of the network channels in HD (there is a dispute between them and the cable company). Normally it is not a big deal, but the problem is that football starts soon and a lot of the College games end up on this channel. Now, non-hd football makes the baby jebus cry, so I am trying to figure out a workaround without spending a ton of money. I think I found a deal on a used Samsung without a remote control. Now, I will literally only use this box for that one channel 95% of the time. Can you run this thing without a remote control? I'd love to save the money, but don't want to end up not being able to make it work when I need it. Owners...what say you?There are no controls on the box itself....you may be able to use a universal remote but I'm not sure. You might check with Samsung to see how much a replacement remote would cost..

[Square]

08-03-07, 01:12 PM

Thanks for the reply. looks like a remote is around $28. I'll have to add that into the equation. Thx.

John Mason

08-03-07, 02:05 PM

'] I think I found a deal on a used Samsung without a remote control. Now, I will literally only use this box for that one channel 95% of the time. Can you run this thing without a remote control?
If you install the tuner close at hand from your normal TV viewing location, there's no reason for requiring a remote, assuming the front panel is adequate. Here, I'd be carefull not to make my YPbPr cables too long and drain PQ or add noise from the length; HDMI might work better. -- John

[Square]

08-03-07, 02:32 PM

So you can power and change channels on this thing by hand? I'd probably set it up one time for this channel and just hook it up on game days. So after initial setup...I'd really just be turning on and off.

brewtownska

08-03-07, 03:19 PM

I bought my DTB-H260F on Ebay without a remote, knowing I'd be able to control it using my Harmony remote. The only negative I've run into thusfar using this plan is that whoever initially setup the codes on the Harmony website for this box forgot to include the "-" (dash) key, so I can't type in specific station numbers. This is currently an issue for me because I can't get the PBS-HD channel of the QAM tuner. I haven't pinpointed the exact cause, but I think it's because PBS-HD is on 116-2 locally (Milwaukee, WI using Time Warner Cable) and there is another channel that recently was put at 116-1. The channel at 116-1 gets remapped to another channel number (it's either 0-518 or 0-524), then I think the box stops scanning the rest of the frequency for other channels. If it's not the boxes fault, maybe there is bad PSIP data in the stream somewhere causing the box to skip the channels. I think if I was able to use the "-" key, I could manually type in 116-2 and pick up the channel (just a guess). I know the channel comes in free and clear, as I can get it using my Samsung SIR-T451 on another TV. I'd just much rather watch it on my main TV, which has the H250F hooked up (plus, the SIR-T451 is so SLOW).

If anyone here has a DTB-H260F and the original remote AND uses a Harmony remote, is there any way for you to load the "-" key into the database? I know you can manually add it to your personal harmony remote, but I just don't know if you can submit anything to the master database.

If anyone has gone through a similar issue with a code not being in the Harmony database, can you explain what you went through to get it updated?

Mike

brewtownska

08-03-07, 03:25 PM

Square,

The only thing you can do from the front panel is turn the box on and off. So you will need a remote (whether it be original or a universal) in order to set things up initially and whenever you want to change channels. This is where a Harmony comes in very handy, as it's always upgradable via the internet. Anytime I get new gear (or even troubleshooting for someone else), I just log onto the Harmony website and download the remote codes.

DonB2

08-03-07, 04:13 PM

Can Square get a Harmony for $28. !

I am just kidding I happened to like Remotes like the Harmony although I could only afford a Universal programmable. I am talking the one that is Radio and infrared capable.

-DoNB2

[Square]

08-03-07, 05:35 PM

Well, my bro has a fancy Harmony. I don't know the model, but I believe it uses IR because he mounts his A/V equipment in a room behind his projector. Anyway, I'm thinking I can use his to get it setup for the one channel I need (or worst case borrow one from BB and return the next day). Then, I will just turn it on and off and leave everything else the same. If I really like the picture and want to start using it for all my HD channels that I can get OTA...I'll fork up the extra money and get the remote (or upgrade to a harmony myself). I appreciate the help. Now, I just have to settle the best deal I can get on a non-remote version. Thx fellas.

bigpoppa206

08-04-07, 01:44 AM

If anyone here has a DTB-H260F and the original remote AND uses a Harmony remote, is there any way for you to load the "-" key into the database? I know you can manually add it to your personal harmony remote, but I just don't know if you can submit anything to the master database.
IIRC, this issue was brought up in this thread already, WAYYY back, and you cannot tune a channel in the way you describe. Pretty much, it you can't get the channel during the scanning process, then you will not get that channel. Also IIRC, these babies are a little finicky about splitters and anything else on the cable feeding into it. Have you tried a straight run right into the DTB to see if its a bad cable or splitter?

[Square]

08-04-07, 02:51 AM

Woohoo...I bought this samsung receiver without a remote for cheap on ebay. Granted I may not still like it when it shows up but, 51 bones plus shipping is much better than I've found any of these online so far. Hopefully I will have smooth sailing from here out. I really appreciate everyone's quick response. It helped me pull the trigger and save some money. Gracias. I'd buy you a beer if you were in town. :)

brewtownska

08-04-07, 01:55 PM

Bigpoppa,

I have 1 more splitter on this line than I do on the line going to the T451, so I will attempt removing the splitter and scanning that way. I hope you're correct :)
If anything, at least I now know that having the "-" button wouldn't help me, so that sort of sets my mind at ease. Thanks for the info!

Haydee

08-13-07, 07:44 AM

jtbell

08-13-07, 10:42 AM

Basically, yes. Suppose you're watching a HD (1080i or 720p) channel or subchannel on a widescreen TV, with the aspect set to "Full" so the picture fills the screen. When you change to a SD (480i) channel, the picture still fills the screen, but is now stretched out horizontally. You have to press the ASPECT button a few times to set the aspect to "Pillar" so the picture looks normal. When you change back to a HD channel, the picture looks compressed horizontally, so you have to hit the ASPECT button again a couple of times to set the aspect back to "Full."

For me, this is only a minor annoyance because most of the channels where this matters are HD. SD upconverted to HD at the station looks OK in "Full" mode because the pillar bars are part of the broadcast image. Most of the SD channels that I actually use are things like weather radar or NBC Weather Plus, and I don't mind too much if those are stretched. The only channels where it's a nuisance are the PBS SD subchannels.

DonB2

08-13-07, 01:26 PM

The SD channels that I stretch are just fine to watch stretched. After a few minutes of watching a stretched SD show I don't even notice that it is stretched.

This is not to say that you can't see that it is stretched because you can as sometimes faces and bodies look a little stretched and squatty.

On the other hand if the SD channels are being given very little of the bandwidth and you stretch them it may look very fuzzy.

Most of the 4:3 sd shows I watch have pretty good bandwidth.

I guess it all in what you like. I personally hate the black veritical pillars on either side of my 16:9 screen and feel like I have tunnel vision watching the show if I do not stretch it to get rid of the bars.

DonB2

Whidbey

08-13-07, 11:11 PM

Is this pretty much the best reliable and affordable HDTV stb with QAM?

I've read through some of the later pages, but I still don't exactly know what is the issue with the 16:9 and 4:3 that this unit has?

Does it just not switch automatically?

Individual channels are broadcast in two formats: 16:9 and 4:3. Most channels are broadcast in 16:9 format, even though the content may be 4:3. They do this by adding bars to each side of the screen so it will fill 16:9 TV screens. Some channels are broadcast in 4:3 format.

Now, the Samsung box has three aspect ratios to choose from, when set up for a 4:3 TV. Letterbox, 4:3 Full and 4:3 Zoom.
On 16:9 broadcasts that are showing a 16:9 show, Letterbox looks the best on a 4:3 TV.
On 16:9 broadcasts that are showing a 4:3 show, Letterbox is the best choice. You will see bars on the sides (because the are part of the signal) and top and bottom since it is a 16:9 broadcast which cannot fill a 4:3 TV. You can stretch this image two ways, 4:3 full, which stretches the picture vertically and gets rid of the top and bottom black bars but leaves the side bars. In this case, people look tall and thin. Or, you can choose 4:3 Zoom, which zooms in of the center of the picture. This would be ideal but this is where the Samsung has a fault. It zooms too much and chops of the top and bottom of the picture. The owners manual indicates that this setting will fill your 4:3 screen, with a very slight horizontal stretch, but not at the cost of losing picture on the top and bottom.
I would like to hear from 16:9 display owners who use this as their tuner - Do you have some of the same type of problems with the aspect ratio settings?

I've had this box for a couple of months now and have adjusted to the bars being present on the sides, top and bottom of the screen when watching 4:3 programs. Even on my Sony analog TV, the shows being broadcast in 16:9 at 720p or better look sharper than those broadcast in 480i. 16:9 programs nearly fill the screen and look awesome, equally good or better than DVDs. FWIW, PBS HD is probably my number one station for stunning pictures which show detail I never thought my old TV was capable of.

PS: the box does not detect aspect ratio and switch automatically. There is a button on the remote to do this - no menu surfing required.

James

dbsc

08-14-07, 02:55 AM

Or, you can choose 4:3 Zoom, which zooms in of the center of the picture. This would be ideal but this is where the Samsung has a fault. It zooms too much and chops of the top and bottom of the picture.
It hacks off the sides as well. Try it while watching news or something else with a graphic on it that will remain in a fixed position.

PS: the box does not detect aspect ratio and switch automatically. There is a button on the remote to do this - no menu surfing required.
That was another complaint actually. There is no good reason for it not to detect it and switch automatically.

scott967

08-14-07, 03:45 AM

My pioneer rptv has absolutely the best zoom for 4:3 of any TV I have seen, but it only works on the internal NTSC or analog inputs. In comparison I hate the Sammy H260F zoom and don't even use it. Rather have pillared except on occasion I have seen material that was letterboxed for 4:3, so it actually has black all around it. That I can zoom in the Sammy and it looks OK on my TV.

scott s.
.

DonB2

08-14-07, 09:36 AM

If the 4:3 with side bars is on a sub multi channel of the station it is typically not presented with much bandwidth. Consequently when stretching a 4:3 to fit my Pioneer PDP 43 Plasma some 4:3 shows looko better stretched than others.

I myself will do anything not to see black bars running down the sides of the screen which I feel look uglier than maybe a slightly soft or stretched 4:3 picture filling the 16:9 screen.

I don't particularly mind horizontal bars that are found on some HD broadcasts and DVD's but vertical bars I dislike tremendously.

-DonB2

Whidbey

08-14-07, 12:41 PM

It hacks off the sides as well. Try it while watching news or something else with a graphic on it that will remain in a fixed position.

True, but when the content is 4:3 it just hacks off the bars... or does it hack off more? I've never really compared to see. I find the news broadcasts don't show much content on the sides - just graphics and stuff to fill 16:9 screens, so you don't miss much if you chop them off.

That was another complaint actually. There is no good reason for it not to detect it and switch automatically.

I agree. However if it did detect, I would want the opportunity to set what aspect ratio it would default to per broadcast type. For now, I prefer it to be in my control, and not have Samsung decide.

James

dbsc

08-14-07, 02:57 PM

True, but when the content is 4:3 it just hacks off the bars... or does it hack off more?
It chops off more. I'm not sure if it's equal to what is lost on the top and bottom but enough is lost that I would never use that zoom at all.

I agree. However if it did detect, I would want the opportunity to set what aspect ratio it would default to per broadcast type. For now, I prefer it to be in my control, and not have Samsung decide.
I just wonder how long until someone grabs a flash dump off the 260 and fixes the Samsung screwups in the firmware. That would really make Samsung look like a bunch of a$$holes wouldn't it. ;) They're too lazy to put out good firmware but some unpaid bored guy does just that, it would be great.

Of course they'd probably try to sue the guy instead of offering him a job these days.

Whidbey

08-14-07, 07:15 PM

It chops off more. I'm not sure if it's equal to what is lost on the top and bottom but enough is lost that I would never use that zoom at all.

Me either.

I just wonder how long until someone grabs a flash dump off the 260 and fixes the Samsung screwups in the firmware. That would really make Samsung look like a bunch of a$$holes wouldn't it. ;) They're too lazy to put out good firmware but some unpaid bored guy does just that, it would be great.

Of course they'd probably try to sue the guy instead of offering him a job these days.

I have a Lite-On DVD recorder that someone was able to alter the firmware, but the original firmware was available online, and therefore people were able to alter it. I think what needs to happen with the 260 is for Samsung to release a firmware update, and then the hacking may begin, for better or for worse.

James

DonB2

08-15-07, 02:56 PM

I watched a few minutes of Frankie and Johnny last night on, I think it is called ,MYTV. Could not watch anymore as I am a Roy fan not a Elvis fan.

Anyway the show was in 4:3 720P. And my tv is a 16:9 Pioneer 43inch Plasma with Component connection.

I hit zoom on the Samsung and both black bars disappeard from the sides but I lost nothing else on the sides of the stretched 4:3 image.

On the top side Elvis's forehead was touching the top of the screen, before stretch there was at least a inch above his head.

On the bottom of the screen the lower half of the logo was cut off.

Was the picture fuzzy or distorted after the stretch?
Not noticably so.

-DonB2

Gopher In Heat

08-17-07, 08:28 AM

Did anyone ever figure out a solution to this?

I picked up a couple of these today from Circuit City as open box. Couldn't pass it up. I'm in a bit of a different situation, the TV it's hooked up to has no component inputs, but the receiver in the system will do Component->Svideo downconversion. When hooked up through this setup, BOTH units show a very strong purple tint, whereas an old Apex DVD player works fine with proper colors.

I am hoping to try a TV with component in but it's unfortunately a few-year-old standard def Toshiba that fits the description from SysteX about his so I'm afraid it's going to have the same issues.
I have a 13" Toshiba TV that's about 3 years old and in the menu, there is an option to toggle the ColorStream input between "DTV" and "DVD." The factory default is DVD. Not sure what the difference is (the manual doesn't explain it either) or if it would help you. I thought all component was the same. But I guess it must not be, otherwise why would that option be there...

lintakoc

08-17-07, 09:13 PM

toby10

08-20-07, 07:37 AM

I am new to this forum, I have tried searching..

I have the LC-52D62U and I just got this STB. I have coax cable going into the TV, a regular antenna connected to the STB which is connected to the TV via HDMI. Problem is, I can't get it to run on anything higher than 480p. When I use the toggle on the back to switch to 720 or 1080, it says incompatible video signal. I just bought a cheap HDMI cable from newegg, would this be the issue? Thanks.
Cables are always a possible cause for problems, but unlikely. I use 4 HDMI cables (one is 50 foot long) all from Monoprice and would be considered "cheap cables" by retail price standards, but all work flawlessly.

Suggestions: Cycling off/on both STB & TV after switching outputs?

Check that you have HDMI selected as STB output (but if you are getting any signal like your 480 through HDMI this must be selected properly already)?

I'd also double check your TV settings & menus for HDMI settings. I know my TV has HDMI settings like "HDMI high, HDMI low" and a few others for HDMI inputs. No clue what they mean. :)

Also, see what your TV says is the signal info (not the STB info), just for comparison.

Are you pulling in OTA signals showing 480? Or are these cable signals?

Are you certain you are tuning in stations that are supposed to be 720 or 1080?

Post again if still no luck. There are many, far more 260 knowledgable people in here than I.

lintakoc

08-20-07, 08:49 PM

Cables are always a possible cause for problems, but unlikely. I use 4 HDMI cables (one is 50 foot long) all from Monoprice and would be considered "cheap cables" by retail price standards, but all work flawlessly.

Suggestions: Cycling off/on both STB & TV after switching outputs?

Check that you have HDMI selected as STB output (but if you are getting any signal like your 480 through HDMI this must be selected properly already)?

I'd also double check your TV settings & menus for HDMI settings. I know my TV has HDMI settings like "HDMI high, HDMI low" and a few others for HDMI inputs. No clue what they mean. :)

Also, see what your TV says is the signal info (not the STB info), just for comparison.

Are you pulling in OTA signals showing 480? Or are these cable signals?

Are you certain you are tuning in stations that are supposed to be 720 or 1080?

Post again if still no luck. There are many, far more 260 knowledgable people in here than I.

I am pulling in OTA signals. The TV signal info says 480p, which is what it is selected as on the STB. The channels that I receive will have info on them that say '16:9 1080i CBS' or '4:3 720p NBC'. However, as I said the TV signal says 480p as the resolution. I will check to see if the HDMI high or low solves the problem.

But in theory, with my setup, the STB should be able to be set to the 1080i position and work, correct? Thanks for your help!

Cyclnz

08-20-07, 09:05 PM

I myself will do anything not to see black bars running down the sides of the screen which I feel look uglier than maybe a slightly soft or stretched 4:3 picture filling the 16:9 screen.
-DonB2

We are in opposite camps here. I do not like a distorted picture that modifies the true aspect ratio on my 16:9 TV. I would much rather have bars down the side.

I basically just use the two settings on the Samsung, "16:9 Pillar" and "16:9 Full". I wish it would automatically detect the format and switch to the proper one, but at least it has a direct button and clear annunciation. On the very rare occasion when an SD station is broadcasting a letterbox movie over a 4:3 format, which results in black side bars from the 4:3 format on a 16:9 screen and black bars on the top and bottom due to the letterbox broadcast format. I will then use "16:9 Zoom".

Scooper

08-20-07, 09:19 PM

I am pulling in OTA signals. The TV signal info says 480p, which is what it is selected as on the STB. The channels that I receive will have info on them that say '16:9 1080i CBS' or '4:3 720p NBC'. However, as I said the TV signal says 480p as the resolution. I will check to see if the HDMI high or low solves the problem.

But in theory, with my setup, the STB should be able to be set to the 1080i position and work, correct? Thanks for your help!

Your Samsung is doing the converting for everything to your selected 480P. What you see on the channels Info is what the Samsung is seeing from that broadcaster, then it converts everything to 480P.

My suggestion - set the Samsung to either 720P or 1080i and then THAT is what your TV will see as the picture source.

lintakoc

08-20-07, 11:17 PM

Your Samsung is doing the converting for everything to your selected 480P. What you see on the channels Info is what the Samsung is seeing from that broadcaster, then it converts everything to 480P.

My suggestion - set the Samsung to either 720P or 1080i and then THAT is what your TV will see as the picture source.

When I move the STB switch to 720p or 1080i, it just says incompatible video source and doesn't show anything. That was what my issue is.

Scooper

08-20-07, 11:24 PM

Did you try using the component outputs ?

lintakoc

08-20-07, 11:48 PM

Did you try using the component outputs ?

I haven't, but I will try to find some and hook them up and see what the result is. Thanks for all of the quick responses and help!

drinklime

08-22-07, 02:03 PM

toby10

08-23-07, 01:49 PM

I am pulling in OTA signals. The TV signal info says 480p, which is what it is selected as on the STB. The channels that I receive will have info on them that say '16:9 1080i CBS' or '4:3 720p NBC'. However, as I said the TV signal says 480p as the resolution. I will check to see if the HDMI high or low solves the problem.

But in theory, with my setup, the STB should be able to be set to the 1080i position and work, correct? Thanks for your help!

Your Aquos model # is a full 1080p capable tv. I'm betting your tv settings need to be configured.

Double check your Samsung STB outputs (resolution & HDMI/Component).

Also, try the "cycling on-off" as mentioned. I have an intermittent problem with my f260 STB where it won't send audio to the TV over HDMI. If I cycle the STB off then on again, it works fine and never drops out (audio and video).

Seems like your STB is functioning and sending the correct signal but your Aquos is not accepting or properly displaying what it is receiving from the STB.

Whidbey

08-31-07, 11:59 AM

Rammitinski

08-31-07, 04:13 PM

I'm thinking about buying a new DVD recorder, or possibly a hard drive recorder, and was wondering if there are any out there that will control the 260 via an IR blaster. I know there are some recorders that have built in ATSC tuners, but I don't want to limit my choices to them.If you can get lucky and still find a Panasonic EH75VS at a Circuit City store, even if it's an open box or display unit, grab it.

Has an 80GB HDD, DVD & VHS recorder, 9th gen. TVGOS which works with D/A cable AND satellite, has an IR blaster (which none of the new Pannies have), is less sensitive to cable and satellite copy protection and is made in Japan and built better than any newer recorders. No digital tuner, though.

I have both the EH75 and the H260F, but I have never tried controlling the tuner with the IR blaster, so I can't say if it'll do that or not. I know that you can at least set recordings on the Sammy (internal channel changes) at least up to 23 hours, from what I've been able to tell. Maybe a Samsung recorder will control it - but I don't know if any of them even use an IR blaster anymore - from what I've seen, it's hard to find any recorder that uses one now. I don't believe that the Philips and Polaroid HDD models out there now use one. Doesn't appear that those international Pioneer HDD models that B&H Photo sells do, either.

My older, Panny E85H could control my RS Accurian ATSC tuner using a Pioneer code, but that's probably coincidental and not intentional on Panny's part.

I do know that the Sammy DVD-AR650 DVD recorder has an OTA guide that goes up to a few days in advance, and which you can set recordings from - so you can at least record OTA programs from it without a blaster. Of course, they'll just be in SD, but they would be that anyway if recorded from your H260F and played back from any DVD recorder.

I would also ask over in the DVD Recorders area, as someone else there may have either tried the EH75/H260F/IR setup, or the 260 with any other recorder.

futyb

09-01-07, 09:53 AM

Hi I also have purchased the Samsung DTB-H260F tuner, are there any other comparable tuners that will stretch a 4:3 image to fill a 16:9 tv?, This unit as mentioned does not have a stretch aspect option like I heard the LST-4200A does, which I cant find new on the internet. The Samsung's zoom as others have said zooms from the center out which cuts off the top and bottom and destroys the image quality. My TV cannot stretch the 4:3 image either.
thanks

Whidbey

09-05-07, 03:40 PM

I called Samsung CS today, mostly just to hear for myself where they stood on the improper zoom function issue. I was transferred first to a level 2, then on to a product specialist who was able to duplicate the problem on a STB and TV he has. He was able to acknowledge that there was an issue, but first blamed the manual for having a misprint. According to him, the box is working as designed, and there is no way to fix the issue through a software fix. Bummer.

I have to wonder if the 4:3 format zoom functions were designed for an HDTV 4:3 TV. I remember seeing them a few years ago, do they still sell them? I wonder if those TVs have the same issue.

James

dbsc

09-05-07, 05:23 PM

I have to wonder if the 4:3 format zoom functions were designed for an HDTV 4:3 TV.

You mean an EDTV? 480p?

Whidbey

09-06-07, 12:05 PM

Yes. Looking back, I think the only thing that justified their existence was to satisfy a price point.

James

cheapa55

09-08-07, 11:28 AM

dbsc

09-08-07, 12:25 PM

I just bought one but I cannot get all the cable channels to show up. How come? I used cable, then air+ cable, and used all settings like std, hrc, irc. I only get some channels. What gives?

ex I dont' get tlc, espn, or mtv. i can get it with my cable box. Did I buy the wrong thing? even my tv tuner in the desktop gets all the channels.

If the channel is encrypted the 260 won't tune it or won't tune it completely. It's only for channels that are "in the clear".

If you're not getting channels you know to be in the clear you might want to check the signal strength on the line you have the 260 hooked up to.

bcarlsen

09-08-07, 01:14 PM

cheapa55

09-08-07, 01:27 PM

dbsc

09-08-07, 02:55 PM

Looks like they already answered you in that thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=638769).

bcarlsen

09-08-07, 03:14 PM

so if all the regular channels are ntsc, I won't get them since the 260 doesn't have that tuner right.

that means comcast sucks! I don't get many "digital" channels.

how about the PHD 205, does that get ntsc and digital at the same time so I can watch all my channels at the same time without having to change a switch in the back?

cheapa55,
Tell us what you were hoping to use this box for so we can help you decide if it meets your needs.

I'm using one to get my local channels in HD (ABC, NBC, and Fox) from Comcast to show on a projector because my projector has no tv tuners at all. I can also watch analog channels by using a VCR, but I never have to flip a switch behind any equipment - just select a video input on the projector remote control.

cheapa55

09-08-07, 08:00 PM

Hehe, yes they did answer there dbsc.

@bcarlsen. I'm trying to cut down cost. I pay about $80/month with comcast to get HD locals and espn HD. I'm willing to give that up, but I want to at least be able to watch espn nonHD. sounds like your setup might work fine for me.

but why does the auto program on the 260 select so many empty channels? I use auto program and I get about 405 channels, but only about 30 channels have reception. I can't get myself to delete the other 375 channels.

Scooper

09-08-07, 08:08 PM

The other channels are encrypted - so the 260 will not be able to tune them in....

Rammitinski

09-09-07, 01:15 AM

I just bought one but I cannot get all the cable channels to show up. How come? I used cable, then air+ cable, and used all settings like std, hrc, irc. I only get some channels. What gives?

ex I dont' get tlc, espn, or mtv. i can get it with my cable box. Did I buy the wrong thing? even my tv tuner in the desktop gets all the channels.The H260F has a "pass-through", so that you can use your TV's NTSC tuner to get any analog channels.

Just run a coax out from the back of the Sammy tuner where it says "out", and then to your TV set's RF input.

Then all you have to do is switch to the TV's tuner anytime you want to watch those channels.

cheapa55

09-10-07, 10:51 AM

Thanks Rammitinski, but my tv is a 42" monitor, no tuner at all. that's why I'm getting a receiver. So I wouldn't be able to do what you suggested. Great idea though. Thanks again.

Scooper

09-10-07, 12:06 PM

OH - so if you need an analog cable tuner - you need something like a VCR or DVD recorder that has a builtin NTSC tuner. Your other option is to get your cable company's STB.

dbsc

09-10-07, 02:24 PM

you need something like a VCR

Head over to your local Goodwill or other thrift shop. You can usually find a decent stereo VCR for $10-$15. I picked up a really nice Sony deck with jog dial for $15 a year or two back, it was going for over $300 new at the time.

bcarlsen

09-10-07, 05:36 PM

Thanks Rammitinski, but my tv is a 42" monitor, no tuner at all. that's why I'm getting a receiver. So I wouldn't be able to do what you suggested. Great idea though. Thanks again.

LG makes a dvd recorder that has ATSC, NTSC and QAM tuners. It's around $200. That would provide all your tv viewing with a single machine. Probably in about a year most dvd recorders will have all three types of tuner and they'll be a lot cheaper.

http://us.lge.com/products/model/detail/tv|audio|video_digital%20video__DR787T.jhtml (http://us.lge.com/products/model/detail/tv|audio|video_digital%20video__DR787T.jhtml)

Rammitinski

09-11-07, 01:55 AM

LG makes a dvd recorder that has ATSC, NTSC and QAM tuners. It's around $200. That would provide all your tv viewing with a single machine.But it doesn't output the signals in HD. No current DVD recorder does - they downscale all incoming signals to SD. They may upconvert them to 720p/1080i/1080p over HDMI, but it won't be true HD.

He (at least) wants his locals in HD.

Since he's already got the Samsung HD tuner, the easiest (and cheapest) solution is to daisy chain it with an old VCR that has an NTSC tuner. A DVD recorder with an NTSC tuner could certainly be used instead, but it most likely won't be as cheap.

futyb

09-13-07, 11:48 AM

Just an update on what I ended up doing with my Sammy DTB-H260, I purchased the PHD-205, and ended up returning it. The picture quality was not as good as the Sammy, the channel master was terrible, the remote was very bad, the reception was not as good, and I found the NTSC was a waste, the channels as expect looked too washed out and I got most of those worth watching is digital. I also got ride of my TWC premium cable and boxes so I just have basic and the QAM is working great and I still can get the OTA if I need. As far as the 4:3 aspect problem, when I see this happening for a channel that is not HD, I just go to the SD channel for the same programming. So except for a couple of audio issues with the sammy sometimes,( the insect whinning sound), Im very happy with the samsung and purchased a 2nd one .. thanks everyone for the replys

HDTimeShifter

09-13-07, 02:53 PM

From the DTB-H260F manual (http://www.samsung.com/support/productsupport/download/Model_Select2.aspx?type=Digital+Set+Top+Box&subtype=HDTV+Tuners&model=DTB%2DH260F&fileType=UM&LSSI=%2Finclude%2FSSI%2Fus%5Fleft%2FLMenu%5FDigitalSetTopBox %5FHDTVTuners%2Esec&RSSI=%2Finclude%2FSSI%2Fus%5Fright%2FRMenu%5FDigitalSetTopBo x%2Esec) on Samsung's website, newly posted today:

Specifications
General Specifications
Broadcasting standard: DTV (ATSC)
Demodulation Method: 8-VSB, QAM (free channel only)

Can't wait to get one and give it a test drive. I'm hoping it uses the 5th generation chipset from LG.

I haven't followed this thread in a while, but was trying to confirm that this supports QAM as well as OTA and while looking up the download for the user manual, noticed that they list a DTB-H261F as well, however there is no user manual for that available. Anybody know if that is the next model or what?

Before the end of the month (when I have to cancel my Comcast HD with HD-PVR) I am trying to build an Myth HTPC with dual ATSC/QAM/NTSC tuners to view and record OTA, unencrypted digital and analog cable, but just thought I should pick up one of these at Circuit City to verify that I can pick up all the OTA channels with decent reception before I drop close to a grand on an HTPC. Currently I have a 5 year old Sony HDTV monitor, so I have no idea as to OTA reception for my location. In the past (years ago), I was not able to find the SIRTxxx units at any of the local Best Buys, Circuit Citys, or Ultimate Electronics (formerly Soundtrack), but it looks like I can order and pick up the H260F at a local Circuit City.

Whidbey

09-13-07, 03:00 PM

I noticed the other day that a couple of the sub-channels fro my local PBS feed were broadcasting 480i 4:3 content with no side bars. So, the picture appeared stretched horizontally when viewed in Letterbox. A click of the remote to switch the aspect to Full and the picture filled the screen of my 4:3 TV.

James

dbsc

09-13-07, 07:46 PM

noticed that they list a DTB-H261F as well ... Anybody know if that is the next model or what?

It's vapor. There was talk of it for a little while, but nobody has actually seen a 261 unit in the wild. Short of an announcement by Samsung I wouldn't count on there being a 261 at all.

HDTimeShifter

09-15-07, 08:18 PM

But it doesn't output the signals in HD. No current DVD recorder does - they downscale all incoming signals to SD. They may upconvert them to 720p/1080i/1080p over HDMI, but it won't be true HD.

He (at least) wants his locals in HD.

Since he's already got the Samsung HD tuner, the easiest (and cheapest) solution is to daisy chain it with an old VCR that has an NTSC tuner. A DVD recorder with an NTSC tuner could certainly be used instead, but it most likely won't be as cheap.

I visited my local Circuit City, and they have a couple of these Sammy tuners in stock. Until I either build my Myth HTPC recorder or buy a Tivo HD, I assume I can hook the coax output from this to my VCR to at least record downscaled HD content to my VCR in the meantime?

Scooper

09-15-07, 10:54 PM

No - all the RF out is good for is as a passthrough - the Samsung DOES NOT put out any video over the coax. The only connections you could use to your VCR is the composite / s-video and analog RCA outputs. TO do what you want (RF output from a digital tuner) - you're going to have to wait until January / Febuary 2008 timeframe when the DTV converters / Govt DTV coupon program starts.

BenCJedi

09-16-07, 03:15 PM

I apologize in advance, but I scanned this thread looking for the answer and didn't find it (yet)..

I was wondering if my Sony WS projection HD-ready set would benefit from the Samsung DTB-H260F in regards to staying in the HD-resolution-realm. I'm getting confused what I should expect for OTA HD with this receiver because my old TV only has component and DVI connectors. Will my CBS sending 720P show up as 720P on my set with components or an HDMI-to-DVI cable from this receiver? Or will it scale down to 480P because the TV knows nothing about HDCP?

bcarlsen

09-16-07, 04:07 PM

Scooper

09-16-07, 04:10 PM

There are component outputs on the Samsung, so you should be able to get 720P that way.

bcarlsen

09-16-07, 04:10 PM

Aug2007

09-16-07, 08:48 PM

enier

09-17-07, 08:51 AM

I do not think you can get audio out of this unit. HDMI might only be for video.

Aug2007

09-17-07, 09:31 AM

I do not think you can get audio out of this unit. HDMI might only be for video.

It certainly seems like this may be the case, but my first (admittedly very flawed) unit provided some broken audio on HDMI. And the manual, on page 13 under "Connecting the Set-Top Box to a TV Set" states "The HDMI cable also carries audio signals, so you do not need to connect audio cables."

Did you try getting audio via HDMI and have the same results (no audio)? Thanks.

enier

09-17-07, 11:14 AM

MY receiver does not have hdmi. I'm using toslink cable for audio with the hdmi going directly to the pj.

Aug2007

09-17-07, 11:19 PM

I do not think you can get audio out of this unit. HDMI might only be for video.

Problem solved. DUE (dumb user error). It turns out the Samsung STB and the Onkyo receiver are particular about startup sequence and messing about in audio output on the Samsung. If I power the receiver up first and have it configured to accepted digital audio from the Samsung via HDMI, then power up the Samsung, all is well. Audio is presented over the HDMI connection.

Thanks for the help. You would think I would have been more suspect of HDMI issues after having read so much about this type of quirk in these forums.

toby10

09-19-07, 06:45 AM

I have been experimenting with the DTB-H260F - I am on my third one since yesterday :)

First unit - HDMI video was ghosted/flattened. I don't know how to describe it, but it was like the image was in negative mode or displayed with too few bits of color. I did get audio that cut in and out via HDMI. The component video had green horizontal bars. After checking input signals, running HDMI direct to the display (Panansonic AE-1000U), I decided either the unit was bad or I didn't want one of these.

I exchange this for second unit. The video problems were gone. But I could get no audio via HDMI. I had to use the optical connection. Audio worked fine on optical (both Dobly and PCM), but I couldn't figure out why I didn't get audio on HDMI. I figured this might be a second bad unit.

So, on to #3. #3 acts the same - no audio on HDMI. And the audio on optical occasionally cuts out - #2 didn't do this.

So, now my question. Is anyone successfully using this STB with audio over HDMI? I only have one receiver to test with HDMI (an Onkyo TX-SR875), so I can't be sure if it is an HDMI incompatibility between the STB and the receiver, or a flaw in the STB. Is anyone getting HDMI audio to work with an Onkyo receiver - even better, with a SR875?

I saw a couple of previous posts about problems with HDMI audio, but I didn't see any info on if anyone had HDMI audio working.

Based on my experience, I would strongly suggest that if you buy one of these, make sure you can test all the connections you might ever use on it. The run quality looks shaky (kinda like some other Samsung products I have seen).

Thanks in advance for any help.

Using only the HDMI out I'm getting fine audio via HDMI from my 260. But initially I did have problems with audio & video drops running a 50' HDMI cable from the 260 to the tv. For testing I used a 6 foot HDMI cable to tv and it solved the problem. I now run the 260's HDMI out into an AVR then ouput from AVR to TV via the same 50' HDMI cable with no audio or video drops. It seemed the 260's HDMI output just did not have the "umph" to push the signal over a long HDMI cable. Occasionally, when firing up the 260, I still get no audio. But cycling off then back on again solves the problem.

Note: Two other HDMI units (DVD players) had no problems outputing audio & video using the same 50' HDMI cable.

You probably already checked, but........
- Swap HDMI cables?
- Hookup another HDMI unit to check audio?
- TV's HDMI menu settings? TV's with HDMI inputs usually have an option to "accept audio" or "ignore audio" over HDMI. I don't think this is your issue but I'd check any/all HDMI menu settings on the TV.

Hope you get the 260's HDMI audio working as it is quite awsome! :)

HDTimeShifter

09-21-07, 05:08 AM

I hooked up my Samsung and auto-scanned with antenna and got all the local HD channels. Then I hooked it up to cable outlet and got fewer local HD channels (missing was the local CBS - no Broncos football!!! and some of the independent channels, I think CW2 and the former UPN). So I figure I need both if I am to watch all OTA local channels as well as any cable channels. I then hooked up the cable coax and the antenna into a Radio Shack coax UHF/VHF/FM splitter/combiner and auto-scanned for both OTA and cable; however this resulted in less channels than either just cable or just OTA (for example, I get 21 pages of channels with cable only, but only some 15 pages of channels with both OTA and cable). Anybody know what is wrong? (I also tried the OTA-only auto-scan with the combiner and get fewer channels than with the antenna directly hooked into the STB.)

bcarlsen

09-21-07, 07:23 AM

You can't use a combiner. Cable and OTA use the same frequencies. You need to use a switch.

Jigga Moog

09-21-07, 08:23 AM

You can't use a combiner. Cable and OTA use the same frequencies. You need to use a switch.

Do they make a good quality switch that won't degrade the HD signal that much?

jtbell

09-21-07, 02:55 PM

Digital reception is "all or nothing". I doubt a simple A/B switch in the coax would make a difference unless the signal level is right at the minimum necessary for stable reception. In that case you'd probably have noticed signal problems already.

bcarlsen

09-21-07, 04:08 PM

Do they make a good quality switch that won't degrade the HD signal that much?

I agree with jtbell. You would be much more likely to experience weak signal problems when using a splitter, not a switch.

Peidon

09-21-07, 04:16 PM

I have Cablevision's Digital IO. With the cable box I get a bunch of HD channels like ESPNHD. If I get rid of the cable box and use the H260F, does anyone know if I'll be able to get all the HD channels in the 7xx range?

mikemikeb

09-21-07, 04:55 PM

Peidon: Probably not, as cable cos. usually encrypt everything but the OTA channels (and someties they even encrypt those). The Samsung can't decode encrypted streams.

Scooper

09-21-07, 05:24 PM

Probably NOT. The Samsung will decode UNENCRYPTED QAM signals (like your local digital stations). More than likely, your digital cable channels are encrypted, and so the Samsung will not be able to display them.

HDTimeShifter

09-22-07, 05:17 AM

You can't use a combiner. Cable and OTA use the same frequencies. You need to use a switch.

Ok, then what's the purpose of the cable+air autoscan? How will it scan both if only 1 source is available at a time? I guess I can auto-scan "air" for OTA, then switch to cable and auto-scan that.

bcarlsen

09-22-07, 08:24 AM

Ok, then what's the purpose of the cable+air autoscan? How will it scan both if only 1 source is available at a time? I guess I can auto-scan "air" for OTA, then switch to cable and auto-scan that.

I think that's what we are supposed to do. If you plan to use the box for cable and OTA you need to scan separately. I guess it's trying to be nice by not throwing out the memorized channels each time you switch from cable to OTA or vice versa, which would require you to scan every time you switch. It would have been a lot better if the box had 2 RF inputs: one for cable and one for OTA.

Whidbey

09-22-07, 01:58 PM

Our remote was accidentally dropped in the dog's water. Fortunately, my wife was able to retrieve very quickly and, after pulling the batteries and letting it dry, we were relieved that it still worked.
During that short period of being unsure our remote would still function, I started to wonder how we could replace it, or if there are any codes that work for existing "multi-device" type remotes.
Has anyone here ever had to replace there remote? If so, how much and where?
Also, has anyone been able to program another remote to operate the 260?

Thanks

James

jtbell

09-22-07, 02:07 PM

I use a Harmony programmable remote to control my DTB-H260F and all my other components. Harmony's online database contains this unit, but I had to "teach" my configuration a few of the buttons, namely "Aspect", "Antenna" and "-".

HDTimeShifter

09-22-07, 03:36 PM

You can't use a combiner. Cable and OTA use the same frequencies. You need to use a switch.

Anybody successfully use a computer switch (hopefully they make one with coax inputs and outputs, not just ethernet outputs) with this? I'm actually interested in building an HTPC-PVR and it would be useless if ATSC/QAM/NTSC tuner cards can't handle dual inputs or automatically control a computer switch to do the switching automatically when recording and I'm not around. Manually flipping a switch is a PITA, but if I miss a recording because the computer wasn't able to do it would really piss me off.

WhiteWhiskers

09-23-07, 10:32 PM

Just got this box on Friday. I have it connected up to Comcast analog cable which also carries some digital channels. The display is a 4 year old Sony 32" HiScan TV that has 720p/1080i component inputs. Pretty much everything others have written I see also. It scans and adds over 300 channels, but over half don't even work. Channels seem to come and go. The only thing I can't figure out is why I lost channel 11-1 this afternoon. It's the NBC channel and was working fine until 3pm. Then when I went to change to that channel, it suddenly was kicked out of the channel list. I can't get it back, even with re-scans. Maybe it has something to do with there being a football game on. I can't even enter 11-1 now. It just won't take the dash. Other people have written this also. Maybe Comcast decided they no longer would carry digital NBC on the analog cable? Fox, CBS, ABC, and PBS all tune in fine in HD, they even show the correct labels.

As a test I hooked up a pair of amplified rabbit ears to the box. Even though I'm 47 miles from the transmitter, I was able to receive channel 11-1 OTA. Seems to have great sensitivity. The picture was HD and was crystal clear, no breaking up at all.

pilot20

09-24-07, 09:53 AM

WhiteWhiskers

09-24-07, 11:11 AM

First thing this morning I turned on the box and tried to tune in channel 11-1. Still no go. Did a full scan of the cable channels again. This time channel 11-1 was added. It's back! I still don't understand what happened though. I don't have any other equipment to tell whether the channel was dropped from the cable or the Samsung box had a problem.

I realize that I wouldn't be able to see all 300 channels the box detects during a scan. Still, I am able to view some channels that aren't available on the analog lineup. The local PBS station only has 1 analog channel on the cable. On the digital side they have 4, all clear QAM. One is exclusively all in HD. I'm also getting MoviePlex which was never on the analog lineup. It's only in SD though. I didn't think I'd see any HD content above the broadcast channels. But the other evening there was a high-numbered movie coming in as 1080i HD. I don't know what the actual channel was. As soon as the movie ended the channel became blocked, the Samsung box said the signal was low or encrypted.

Overall though, it's neat to see true HD content for the first time. The picture looks so much better than the analog cable. Everything looks so much sharper and in focus.

lonegeek

09-24-07, 07:19 PM

Is there any sort of "hidden" menu that gives you a percentage for OTA signal?

Scooper

09-24-07, 07:32 PM

Well - first off - you have to be on the HD outputs (HDMI or component) - menus are not visible from the S-Video / composite video outputs. If you don't have them - hook the Green component to your composite (set to 480i) and you can see them in B/W. But if you have to do that - you can't see the shade differences in the bars (and there are no numbers) - I've found that using a Y connector on the Green and BLue ?or Red component will at least let me guess..

Tune the channel you want. Then press MENU, Right arrow 2 or 3 times (Channel) ,down to signal strength. then enter.

dbsc

09-24-07, 11:13 PM

I've found that using a Y connector on the Green and BLue ?or Red component will at least let me guess..

That reminds me. What would happen if I were to use a simple RCA Y-splitter/joiner to take the composite "yellow" and component "green" and squish them together to go to the composite in of my TV? Obviously the 260 would be set to 480i for this.

Scooper

09-24-07, 11:24 PM

never tried it - so I couldn't say.

Whidbey

09-25-07, 03:11 PM

That reminds me. What would happen if I were to use a simple RCA Y-splitter/joiner to take the composite "yellow" and component "green" and squish them together to go to the composite in of my TV? Obviously the 260 would be set to 480i for this.

One thing I've noticed is that the component output image is affected when you change the aspect ratio (Letterbox, Full or Zoom), whereas the s-video and composite video outs do not change aspect ratios. I found this out when I hooked my composite video out to one of my TV's inputs and used PIP to display both the component video out and the composite video out at the same time for comparison.

So, yes your idea "may" work, just don't try to change aspect ratios or you will get a double image. Also, you image may be darker or greener than it should be.

Maybe the wise thing to do is to get a video switch and use it when you want to see on-screen menu content.

James

dbsc

09-25-07, 04:15 PM

Maybe the wise thing to do is to get a video switch and use it when you want to see on-screen menu content.

That was researched pretty well earlier in the thread. The conclusion was a component-to-composite device would be prohibitively expensive.

Whidbey

09-25-07, 05:40 PM

That was researched pretty well earlier in the thread. The conclusion was a component-to-composite device would be prohibitively expensive.

I was referring to a manual $15 switch you can get from RS. Input the green component and yellow composite from the 260, then yellow composite out to TV. The switch would control the inputs.

James

Scooper

09-25-07, 05:54 PM

dbsc

09-25-07, 06:57 PM

I was referring to a manual $15 switch you can get from RS. Input the green component and yellow composite from the 260, then yellow composite out to TV. The switch would control the inputs.

Oh! Sorry, I guess I misunderstood. I thought you were talking about something that would do NTSC encoding.

I'm already doing the switching with an A/V receiver. Well, strictly speaking the green component is going to the aux in of the VCR because I'm out of video inputs on the receiver but the effect is the same. :)

Peidon

09-29-07, 12:25 AM

toby10

09-29-07, 07:46 AM

I hooked up my H260F to a Panasonic TH-50PH7UK via HDMI and I can clearly see some noise in the background. This is before I did the channel scan, so I'm just looking at the blank screen with menus. Have anyone else experienced this? Do I have a bad unit?

I also tried the component connections and I see the same thing.

I have only used HDMI with the 260 and I've never seen any video noise with the picture. Sure sounds like a bad unit.

Any chance you could try the 260 on another tv in the home? Knowing the Panny's (I have the TH-PX50U) I would find it HIGHLY unlikely that the Panny would be the culprit here, but anything is possible.

Scooper

10-02-07, 04:56 PM

Last Saturday (September 29), we finally acquired our first HDTV - an Olevia 232T from teh Tiger Direct Store. The Olevia does come with an ATSC tuner - but it looks like the Samsung's is superior. Couple notes on using the 2 together -

On the Samsung - using the HDMI port - set audio output to PCM, video to 720P. (No onboard DD decoder or output on the TV). When output was set to 1080i, people were turning blue. Setting it back to 720p cleared the problem.

The Olevia did come with an HDMI cable, I don't have another cable to test with. I'm using the component feed currently from the progressive outputs from my DVD player. May do a more thorough test using the component cables tomorrow.

Edit - component tested this morning - no problems feeding a 1080i signal. flipped back to HDMI, blue people again, set the switch back to 720p , normal people again. Suspect either the Olevia or the included HDMI cable, more likely the cable.

lonegeek

10-02-07, 09:15 PM

Scooper

10-02-07, 10:08 PM

Nope. Bar or nothing.

RolloT

10-06-07, 07:37 PM

If you run component out of the 260 to an A/V receiver then S-Video from the receiver to my S-Video best 35"CRT, will this display the menu?

Thanks

Davinleeds

10-06-07, 07:53 PM

On the component. You will see menu. Page 14, bottom. 2nd Note,menu, component and hdmi only.

Scooper

10-06-07, 08:31 PM

IF your AV receiver will downconvert the component to S-Video / composite - then maybe. This link is something that would work -
http://www.svideo.com/appletv2tv.html

But I have not tried it, since I now have an HDTV that has an HDMI connector (as well as component input).

wildwillie6

10-07-07, 05:06 PM

There's an interesting discussion at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11838929&postcount=2065 about the low loss of some video receivers with RF passthrough. I'm wondering about what the loss might be for the DTB-H260F. Does anyone have testing equipment or experience that might answer? Or, does anyone know what's inside the box on this score, perhaps a powered splitter of some kind?

(The point, of course, is that if this box outputs an RF-out signal that's almost as good as what came in, it would be better to run an antenna straight to it, then out to other equipment -- rather than using a splitter to connect the two pieces of equipment.)

dbsc

10-07-07, 06:41 PM

The point, of course, is that if this box outputs an RF-out signal that's almost as good as what came in, it would be better to run an antenna straight to it, then out to other equipment -- rather than using a splitter to connect the two pieces of equipment.

Yes but only if the 260 is turned on. When it's turned off signal strength drops a lot.

Davinleeds

10-07-07, 07:16 PM

According to HDTV Expert, the output is amplified by 2.5db which is almost what you lose with a spliter, 3.5db. If it's turned off I find different frequencies (channels) pass through easier than others. Don't ask for a link, it was in an old email when he was reviewing it. Ask him.

Whidbey

10-07-07, 07:52 PM

When it's turned off signal strength drops a lot.

That's an understatement. I pass the signal from my antenna through the 260 to my VCR. If the 260 is not on, the picture is not viewable. I thing you have to have a pretty strong signal to push through the powered down 260 to have a decent picture.

James

lookatthemonkeys

10-07-07, 09:19 PM

I am not sure if this should go in this section, but I just got this tuner a week ago and it works great. I have basic cable and when I use the QAM tuner to scan it I get a number of unencrypted channels, and and a few extra HD channels. When I plug the cable straight into the tuner from the wall, I get all the channels I am suppose to get. The problem comes when I pass the signal through an antenna (I have 2 different models of Terk antennas). When I pass the cable signal through the antenna and rescan, a number of the cable channels disappear. As a test I will be watching HGTV in HD straight from the wall to the tuner, but once I pass it through any of the antennas, I lose that channel (and a number of channels). I realize that there is a switch on the antenna for a video source and OTA, so it is not that. The signal is getting distorted somehow. So what kinda of antennas with a switch for the cable source are you guys using that does not interrupt the signal?

yekim54

10-07-07, 09:46 PM

So what kinda of antennas with a switch for the cable source are you guys using that does not interrupt the signal?
I use a simple Antenna/Cable switch like this:
http://www.showmecables.com/productDetailsPopUp.asp?idproduct=1860

dbsc

10-07-07, 11:49 PM

The problem comes when I pass the signal through an antenna

The cable frequencies and OTA frequencies overlap. What you're basically doing is sending the 260 a mess of two signal sources, with the cable source probably losing a lot of power by effectively transmitting itself using your antenna instead of going to the 260. Your cable company might take a dim view of doing that by the way..

jtbell

10-08-07, 01:14 AM

Your cable company might take a dim view of doing that by the way..

Not to mention the FCC. :rolleyes:

lookatthemonkeys

10-08-07, 09:55 AM

The cable frequencies and OTA frequencies overlap. What you're basically doing is sending the 260 a mess of two signal sources, with the cable source probably losing a lot of power by effectively transmitting itself using your antenna instead of going to the 260. Your cable company might take a dim view of doing that by the way..

No, they dont overlap because the antenna has a switch on it for OTA and the cable source. So only one signal is going to the 260 at one time...

Thanks for the advice though. I will check out that switch.

DonB2

10-08-07, 04:21 PM

bcarlsen

10-08-07, 04:27 PM

Rammitinski

10-08-07, 04:44 PM

I am pretty sure power has to be on to pass thru the signal on a Samsung.It doesn't really have to - if it's a strong enough signal, it gets through.

But the box either attenuates it when it's off, or boosts it when it's on - I'm not exactly sure which.

WhiteWhiskers

10-08-07, 04:51 PM

My Comcast analog cable has a whole group of digital channels which just play local radio stations. Previously when I had a cheap RCA TV that could tune in QAM (I ended up returning the TV), it would play the radio stations perfectly. The Samsung will tune in these same channels that just have radio, but they don't play correctly. What I hear is about 1 second of audio followed by 6 seconds of silence, 1 seconds of audio, etc. It won't play the radio stations continuously. Has anybody else had this problem? Is it because the Samsung doesn't see video so it cuts out the whole signal?

Second, I don't understand the volume control. If I'm connecting the line audio out of the Samsung to a regular TV, what is the correct setting for the volume control? Right now I have it at 60%, but it still seems like the volume is lower than the same analog channels I tune in with the TV. Does setting the volume level of the Samsung to 100 set the audio line out to a standard level?

dbsc

10-08-07, 05:05 PM

Does setting the volume level of the Samsung to 100 set the audio line out to a standard level?

Yes. Some DVD players have a similar kind of volume control, I even have a Sony 5-disc CD player that has one like that.

Stations tend to send out varying levels for volume though, and many will crank it up when the commercials come on. I called them on that practice once and was told that they don't turn the volume up for commercials, they increase the amplitude. You'll laugh but I'm not kidding!

lookatthemonkeys

10-08-07, 05:44 PM

lookatthemonkeys,

You are confusing me on exactly what you mean when you say antennas.

Are you talking antennas as in the antenna jack on the back of the Samsung unit.

Or are you talking passing through antenna as in the receive antenna up on the roof?

I am pretty sure power has to be on to pass thru the signal on a Samsung.

-DonB2

Thanks for the help. What I am trying to do is run a switch inbetween the wall and the Samsung so I can switch between using an OTA antenna (so I can use the guide), and the other part of the switch will be so I can select the direct cable signal to the Samsung (so I can use QAM). I figured out from you guys that the switches that are on my Terk antennas might be causing some signal loss, so I am still playing with useing different types of switches.

lonegeek

10-08-07, 11:46 PM

Nope. Bar or nothing.

Does anyone know what the bars equate to?

3 of 10 bars surely can't be 30 percent, because on my dish vip 211 the channel is around 60-70 percent.

FulciZombieFan

10-09-07, 04:25 AM

Forgive me for not reading all 70+ pages in this thread. Talk about long!

I'm looking for a simple thing that I can't find. Hoping someone can let me know.

When you output 480i via S-Video will it stay 16x9 anamorphic widescreen?

My current cable TV box will force a 16x9 anamorphic widescreen source to 4:3 Letterboxed when outputting 480i via S-Video and composite ... even component.

Why would I want 480i 16x9 anamorphic widescreen? I want to use this with a DVD Recorder. So I need to downsample HDTV to 480i but I want to keep it 16x9 anamorphic widescreen instead of getting stuck with 4:3 Letterboxed. Also I need to use either composite or better yet S-Video but that's it ... can't use component and of course HDMI is out.

So can the Samsung do what I am asking? If not then is there another similar HDTV receiver that can?

Scooper

10-09-07, 09:20 AM

Start reading - your question has been answered.

FulciZombieFan

10-09-07, 10:41 AM

Start reading - your question has been answered.
That is a rather rude thing to say. The thread is 70+ pages long. I just have one simple question. It's not some convoluted hard-to-explain question either.

Would someone less childish please answer my question?

Thank you.

Scooper

10-09-07, 12:06 PM

That is a rather rude thing to say.
Thank you.

The thread is 70+ pages long. I just have one simple question. It's not some convoluted hard-to-explain question either.

Would someone less childish please answer my question?

Thank you.

GO back about 2-3 pages.

Anybody who doesn't want to do a little light reading doesn't deserve help - general rule anywhere you go on the internet. - The more technical, the more this "rule" is enforced. Get used to it.

WhiteWhiskers

10-09-07, 12:35 PM

When you output 480i via S-Video will it stay 16x9 anamorphic widescreen?

I just tested it on my setup. The results are difficult to generalize but basically, the answer to your question is no. When viewing the s-video output, the 16:9 HD video displayed on the screen is 4:3 cropped. You cannot get widescreen out of the s-video output. Where it gets weird and unpredictable is when the source is 4:3 video broadcast as 1080i or 720p. Then the s-video output is 4:3 with sidebars and it's squished. And since the aspect ratio button has no effect on the s-video out, the way it looks on the s-video is how it's going to look, no correction possible. Only when the channel is broadcasting at 480i will you see correct 4:3 video out of the s-video. Some people have claimed and complained that this is a bug in the box, but it may be intentional and designed to prevent people from doing what you want to do, and that's to record high definition broadcasts.

Whidbey

10-09-07, 01:07 PM

When you output 480i via S-Video will it stay 16x9 anamorphic widescreen?

No. S-Video stretches the 16:9 image vertically, so everyone appears tall. HOWEVER... This is not necessarily a bad thing. The benefit is that you can record the entire image, not just the "4:3" center with the sides chopped off. If your DVD recorder or TV has the ability to "squish" or compress the image back down to 16:9, the the image will appear correct on your TV.

So, check your DVD recorder or TV to see if it has an adjustment to compress the screen vertically. If it does, I think you will be happy with the Samsung STB. FWIW, I can record HD broadcasts with my VCR, using the composite outs. It records the entire signal, with the image stretched vertically. In my case, my Sony 4:3 TV has a setting to compress the image back down to 16:9, making the image correct.

James

jjallou

10-09-07, 03:53 PM

Some people have claimed and complained that this is a bug in the box, but it may be intentional and designed to prevent people from doing what you want to do, and that's to record high definition broadcasts.

Yea, just what I want to do. Use the S-video or composite out to record to VHS tape. 1-No longer HD, 2-Broadcast material edited for content, 3-Full of commercials.

Seriously......This box plainly sucks for use with a standard analog tv set. Most new sets have a built in tuner, so why design a new set top box to not be analog friendly. No on screen display on the analog outs is a big mistake. Also it would be nice for the box to be able to set aspect ratio PER CHANNEL on the analog outs. Somebody at Samsung better get their act together.

It does work great on HD Ready sets (without an HD tuner) however. It's just not DTV transition ready (to replace analog tuners on analog sets).

DonB2

10-09-07, 05:16 PM

"Stations tend to send out varying levels for volume though, and many will crank it up when the commercials come on. I called them on that practice once and was told that they don't turn the volume up for commercials, they increase the amplitude. You'll laugh but I'm not kidding!"

- I remember reading that exact same question in the question and answer section of TV guide back in the 80's.

I can't tell you how much the answer PO'd me.

So even if it is amplitude not volume my darn volume control still see's the volume as loud and I can attenuate the amplitude with it.

I don't mind them bumping the amplitude/volume up some but I dislike eardrum piercing.

-Donb2

Scooper

10-09-07, 05:24 PM

what they are doing on the commercials, is compressing and raising the average audio level on the commercials. So, even if they peaks are not any higher - the average audio level is.

Whidbey

10-09-07, 05:58 PM

Yea, just what I want to do. Use the S-video or composite out to record to VHS tape. 1-No longer HD, 2-Broadcast material edited for content, 3-Full of commercials.

There are machines available for what you want to do, record in HD and be able to edit out commercials, but they cost $$ and, AFAIK, are not available in the US yet. It seems if you were in the market for one, you would not be discussing the Samsung 260 STB.

No on screen display on the analog outs is a big mistake.

I agree. But I would also want the option to turn off the OSD when using it for a DVD recorder or VCR. (Yes, I still like my VCR).

Also it would be nice for the box to be able to set aspect ratio PER CHANNEL on the analog outs.

That would be nice.

James

bcarlsen

10-09-07, 06:17 PM

Yea, just what I want to do. Use the S-video or composite out to record to VHS tape. 1-No longer HD, 2-Broadcast material edited for content, 3-Full of commercials.

Seriously......This box plainly sucks for use with a standard analog tv set. Most new sets have a built in tuner, so why design a new set top box to not be analog friendly. No on screen display on the analog outs is a big mistake. Also it would be nice for the box to be able to set aspect ratio PER CHANNEL on the analog outs. Somebody at Samsung better get their act together.

It does work great on HD Ready sets (without an HD tuner) however. It's just not DTV transition ready (to replace analog tuners on analog sets).

Just to be clear - the component output is analog and it supports OSD. I think what you mean is that the box does not simultaneously support SD resolution and OSD.

I don't think Samsung was targeting the DTV transition when they developed this product. Why would someone pay almost $200 to make their SDTV work. A low end HDTV doesn't cost much more. And the government set top box program is going to let people get the conversion boxes for about $50. More likely, Samsung is targeting people who got HDTV/monitors early, before digital tuners were common.

Scooper

10-09-07, 06:48 PM

I'd agree - this box is NOT a good one for a DTV coupon box, although it probably wouldn't take much to make it suitable. Delete the HDTV / TOSLINK ports, output the menus etc on the Svideo / composite video ports, and you're there. Adding some format controls and/or default 16:9 output as letterbox would make it perfect.

jjallou

10-09-07, 08:01 PM

Just to be clear - the component output is analog and it supports OSD. I think what you mean is that the box does not simultaneously support SD resolution and OSD.

I don't think Samsung was targeting the DTV transition when they developed this product. Why would someone pay almost $200 to make their SDTV work. A low end HDTV doesn't cost much more. And the government set top box program is going to let people get the conversion boxes for about $50. More likely, Samsung is targeting people who got HDTV/monitors early, before digital tuners were common.

Analog was in reference to the S-Video & Composite NTSC only - sorry.
Like I said this unit works well for those with an HD ready set.

There were previous set top boxes that can do analog NTSC well (with OSD and Program Guide) and were priced about the same. Why is this new Samsung box such a problem? Seems like less of a product for the same cost.
Big benefit is the 5th Gen tuner so you're paying for R&D. They had to skimp somewhere.

jjallou

10-09-07, 08:04 PM

There are machines available for what you want to do, record in HD and be able to edit out commercials, but they cost $$ and, AFAIK, are not available in the US yet. It seems if you were in the market for one, you would not be discussing the Samsung 260 STB.

Already have a PC doing that.

DonB2

10-11-07, 11:46 AM

"There were previous set top boxes that can do analog NTSC well (with OSD and Program Guide) and were priced about the same. Why is this new Samsung box such a problem? Seems like less of a product for the same cost.
Big benefit is the 5th Gen tuner so you're paying for R&D. They had to skimp somewhere."

It is a real mystery to me why they don't allow the guide screens in composite out. I don't think it even required additiional hardware to do it. Now maybe the software is set up to place the guides in a 16:9 aspect ration and Samsung did not want to bother writing software to display in both 16:9 and also in 4:3. But this is just guessing on my part.

-DonB2

jtbell

10-11-07, 12:24 PM

It is a real mystery to me why they don't allow the guide screens in composite out.

Especially since their previous model (SIR-T451) does display the menus, guide, etc. over composite-video. I used that box for a while with my old SD CRT before I bought a HDTV.

Scooper

10-11-07, 01:08 PM

I do find it kind of nice to use the Samsung as a 2nd HDTV tuner with my Olevia 232T-T11 TV - especially since you have to rotate among the different input sources. Sometimes - it's easier just to stop at the HDMI input and watch the Samsung. And I do use the composite outputs to send the "HD picture" to our non-DTV TV in the kitchen on race day.

dbsc

10-11-07, 04:17 PM

Samsung did not want to bother writing software to display in both 16:9 and also in 4:3. But this is just guessing on my part.

You can set the box to 480i (4:3) and get the menus/guide out of component. That's the only way those of us without a HDTV can view them (green component out to composite in).

DonB2

10-12-07, 10:40 AM

"You can set the box to 480i (4:3) and get the menus/guide out of component. That's the only way those of us without a HDTV can view them (green component out to composite in)."

Thanks, I am aware of the work around. But as a co worker of mine would say "It is the Long Way around Robin Hoods barn".

-DonB2

Scooper

10-12-07, 11:44 AM

You can set the box to 480i (4:3) and get the menus/guide out of component. That's the only way those of us without a HDTV can view them (green component out to composite in).

Yes, I've done the same - I also used a Samsung LCD computer display using a HDMI-DVI conversion cable. Add a set of powered speakers (like for your PC) and you would have a halfway decent ATSC TV, or I could run the audio out through my A/V receiver.

TeddyR

10-13-07, 02:33 PM

Have a look at the PHD-205...

http://www.epvision.com

They even have ""marketing" document comparing the Sammie with the 205...
http://www.epvision.com/Documents/HDSTB_Product_compare.pdf

[I originally got the sammie, and now have both...] The only problem with the 205 for now is that its remote uses the similar codes to the InFocus projector that I have access to; but the zoom and display of menus on composite is MUCH better than the sammie... The menus on the Sammie look better, so YMMV....

At this point it would have been the perfect reciever if it had cablecard....:D

giantcycle

10-13-07, 04:04 PM

At this point it would have been the perfect reciever if it had cablecard....:D

My perfect receiver would have a second RF input so that two antennas, or an antenna + cable, could go in. That seems to have become a rare feature -- has been on some tuners and PC cards.

Scooper

10-13-07, 04:52 PM

Budget_HT

10-13-07, 10:15 PM

That PHD looks nice - but I don't think I can switch right now. I'll be looking for coupon boxes after Jan 1.

One disadvantage of the PHD to the Samsung is that DVI port - no audio. My TV (Olevia 232T) doesn't appear to have analog inputs associated with the HDMI port (at least, not as it came out of the box). OTOH, I could use the component inputs just fine.
My 2 newer LCD HDTVs each have a single, 1/8" mini stereo phone jack analog audio input shared between the HDMI and d-sub VGA/RGB inputs (i.e., can be used with either video input). This duality was not obvious looking at the input jack field, but was explained in the user manual. IIRC, there is an option setting for the HDMI input specifying digital or analog audio input.

One is a Vizio and the other is a Sylvania (Funai).

avgeek123

10-14-07, 07:11 PM

Hi,

I have a Samsung HD plasma that I bought last year - this unit doesn't have QAM decoder to pick up HD channels off the Cable.

I don't want to use another cable HD box (its interface is aweful, can manage channel list, etc.)

So I'm looking at some HDTV tuner as DTB-H260H. But before buying, I thought it would be nice if there is similar device that can record show also?

Anyone can help?

Thanks in advance

Rammitinski

10-14-07, 07:55 PM

I have a Samsung HD plasma that I bought last year - this unit doesn't have QAM decoder to pick up HD channels off the Cable.

So I'm looking at some HDTV tuner as DTB-H260H. But before buying, I thought it would be nice if there is similar device that can record show also?For HD time-shifting, you could look for a used Sony DHG-HDD500 or DHG-HDD250, or an LG 3410a on ebay or elsewhere. They are HD DVR's with clear-QAM tuners. The Sony's also accept a CableCARD to receive the normally encrypted digital channels.

There are three HDD/DVD recorders with digital QAM tuners currently available new in the U.S., but they will only put out a standard definition signal to your TV (and will only record to DVD in SD). They are made by Philips, Magnavox and Polaroid. The Polaroid I'd probably stay away from. The other two can be found at places like Walmart, Circuit City and Fry's. The Magnavox, which is just now showing up in Walmart stores, is only $200.00 and looks promising. The Phillips is closer to $300.00.

There are also a number of DVD-only (no hard drive) recorders available with QAM tuners - but those also only have SD output. You can find plenty of information on those and the above HDD models over in the "DVD Recorders" forum here.

The only other units (DVR's) that record in HD are the TiVoHD and the TiVo S3, both of which require a subscription to use. But the TiVoHD with the pre-paid 3-year subscription price (which comes to $8.33/mo.) isn't really too bad of a deal.

avgeek123

10-17-07, 12:33 AM

Dear Rammitinski,

thank you so much for good information - I think your advice about TIVO or similar suggestion maybe the best way (like Comcast also has DVR for extra $10/month).

Tom

antivirus6613

10-18-07, 05:41 PM

Rammitinski

10-18-07, 06:31 PM

Dear Rammitinski,

thank you so much for good information - I think your advice about TIVO or similar suggestion maybe the best way (like Comcast also has DVR for extra $10/month).

TomJust FYI - I know there's at least one LG 3410A for sale in the dedicated thread over in the "HDTV Hardware" forum (by someone who decided to go with the new TiVo - his name is Tim).

One plus with the LG is that you can dump the recordings to D-VHS in HD over firewire.

dbsc

10-18-07, 09:15 PM

The tv has qam and ntsc tuners so I got the box to do the same. The box only tunes into HDTV channels and only 10-15 work out of the 350 that it found when scanning. Sometimes some channels work sometimes some channels do no.
You should read at least a few pages back in the thread, and browsing the manual couldn't hurt either. If you don't have a manual you can read it online (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=DTB-H260F+manual&btnG=Search) (should be the first result, a PDF).

The 260 doesn't have an NTSC tuner so naturally you won't be getting those channels. That the channels you do get are in high definition is good for you, there's no requirement for them to be sent that way. The ones that don't work are encrypted, the ones that work sometimes are probably On Demand your neighbors are watching. That's all covered a dozen or more times earlier in the thread.

PS. What is STD and IRC and HRC?

STD, HRC and IRC are annoying. :)

KBoswell

10-19-07, 10:10 AM

I purchased the samsung tuner off ebay for 120. It arrived and I was going to use it to tune cable in my theater with not cable inputs on any of the electronics. Used my sony bravia tv to connect into my comcast line. Got all cable channels 2-75 clear and maybe 20-30 hd. fox cbs abc pbs and discovery. Then I got a bunch of random other channels, music, movies, on demand (2-3).

The tv has qam and ntsc tuners so I got the box to do the same. The box only tunes into HDTV channels and only 10-15 work out of the 350 that it found when scanning. Sometimes some channels work sometimes some channels do no.

PS. What is STD and IRC and HRC?

I'll give this a try. It has to do with the carrier frequencies used by the cableco.

STD is the conventional carrier frequencies of TV.

HRC is Harmonically Related Carriers

IRC is Incrementally Related Carriers.

The HRC & IRC are two means of reducing the noise/interference among the channels; intermodulation, etc.
[source: C-COR, Catv pocket guide for Engineers & Technicians"]

(Anyone with more complete information; Please feel free jump in.)

Hope this helps,
Kelly

jorwex

10-21-07, 12:54 PM

jtbell

10-21-07, 01:33 PM

therefore I have to use an A/B selector to switch between outputting the comcast from the wall to my h260f (for watching qam hdtv) and my tv (for watching basic cable).

No, the H260F has an ANT OUT coaxial jack that you can connect to your TV's cable/antenna input. It passes some of the incoming signal through, that is, it has a splitter built in. You select analog channels on your TV normally. For digital (QAM) channels, you set your TV to whatever input you have the H260F connected to, and select the channel on the H260F.

Budget_HT

10-21-07, 01:48 PM

I'm getting a little confused on the lingo here. When you guys say that the box has no "NTSC" tuner, you mean for standard, non-HD cable that comes out of my wall with comcast, right? I'm under the understanding that this box will not do basic cable.

As in, this tuner does not have an NTSC tuner, and therefore I have to use an A/B selector to switch between outputting the comcast from the wall to my h260f (for watching qam hdtv) and my tv (for watching basic cable).

Is all of that accurate? If so then I'm going to go replace my existing A/B coax selector with a new one with a remote to go nicely with my new harmony remote cuz im lazy :)
NTSC is an industry standards commitee that defined and maintains the technical standards for the analog TV signals that have existed for many years--long before any form of digital TV came along.

NTSC analog TV is what was broadcast over-the-air (OTA) and received with an antenna, as well as what was provided by cable systems.

ATSC is a newer industry standards commitee that set and maintains the technical standards for digital TV signals that are used for both standard-definition (SD) and high-definition (HD) TV, again for both OTA and cable systems.

NTSC analog and ATSC digital TV channels are carried within the same OTA and cable "transmission channels." The ATSC digital channels are compressed and several can share the same "transmission channel" space as used by a single NTSC analog channel.

ATSC OTA 8VSB (type of OTA modulation scheme) can typically fit up to 5 SD digital channels, or 1 HD channel and a few SD channels in the same "transmission channel" space as a single NTSC analog channel. The more digital channels that are sharing, the higher the compression ratios need to be, and the lower the resulting picture quality. For OTA HD channels, the best picture quality is available when the HD digital channel is given all of the "transmission channel" space that was available for an NTSC analog channel (this is about 6 Mhz).

ATSC Cable QAM (type of Cable TV modulation scheme) can fit even more digital channels in the same "transmission channel" space, in part because there is less overhead needed for forward error correction in the confined world of cable transmission when compared to the free-space OTA transmission. On our local Comcast cable system, we often see two full HD digital channels or ten or more SD digital channels (or one HD plus five SD) in the same "transmission channel" space as a single analog cable channel (again we are talking about roughly 6 Mhz).

The Samsung 260 ATSC tuner can receive ATSC 8VSB OTA digital channels and/or ATSC QAM Cable digital channels.

The Samsung 260 cannot receive any form of NTSC analog TV channel--not OTA nor Cable.

The RF pass-through capability provided in the Samsung 260 will allow any signal at the RF input jack to also be available at the RF output jack. Be aware that the internal splitter connected between the input and output jacks is combined with some powered amplification. So, the pass-through RF signal is only usable when the 260 is powered up.

I hope this helps explain the differences and limitations.

Kensmith48

10-21-07, 02:48 PM

I purchased this tuner approx. 8 months ago. I use it occassionally in a 2nd room. Lately when I turn it on I get programs for about 10 minutes and then I can't pick up any channels with it. My primary set is connected to the same ant. and it works fine. The channel strength is ok, 7 to 9 but the stations don't come in. Any clues to what is going on? Thought I'd add that it's just for ota, no cable etc.

Whidbey

10-21-07, 07:08 PM

Ken;
Mine acted the same way the other night. Turned out that the wind had moved my antenna. I have a rotor, so a re-sync fixed things. Regardless of whether or not you have a rotor, you should check your antenna for alignment, especially if you've had wind lately.

James

Chucka

10-21-07, 08:54 PM

Is the Samsung DTB-H260F ATSC tuner still the best ATSC tuner currently available? Is the anything better available and if so, what?

Chucka

OBSSSD

10-21-07, 08:57 PM

Yes it is the best if your primary concern is OTA viewing for HD. I just hooked mine up through an Onkyo SR605 to a Mitsubishi HD1000U projecting on a fixed 140" screen. The picture is unbelievable - as good as it can possibly get :)

Chris

Kensmith48

10-22-07, 09:25 AM

Whidbey

10-22-07, 11:23 AM

James,
There has been alot of wind lately, but why would one set with a different tuner come in and the Samsung not display any channels at all? I have a rotor but I should get some channels and not lose all of them correct? The signal strength was showing 7-9 bars on most channels so where was the picture?
Thanks,
Ken

Ken - I have to agree, that is strange. After our windstorm disoriented my antenna, my Samsung box acted as if I had never scanned some channels. It would just pass by them when changing channels, not even displaying the "weak or no signal" screen.
I'll assume you have rescanned and re-sync'ed your rotor. If you still have no picture where there was one before, and your other ATSC tuner displays the signals OK, then it sounds like a defective box.

James

Rammitinski

10-22-07, 03:36 PM

The channel strength is ok, 7 to 9 but the stations don't come in. Any clues to what is going on? etc.Have you made sure the output resolution switch on the back of the tuner is set correctly for that particular TV?

T-Max

10-22-07, 06:14 PM

dbsc

10-22-07, 07:04 PM

Does anyone know whether or not the Samsung DTB-H260F can be properly set up and operated without the remote? I assume I can find a universal remote to work the more mundane functions, but what about the menu stuff and all that? Thanks

The general consensus seemed to be that using a Harmony (expensive!) remote was the only real option and even that wasn't perfect because the dash key and a couple others aren't programmed in automatically.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11697662&highlight=replacement+remote#post11697662
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9994514&highlight=replacement+remote#post9994514

I think replacement remotes can be had for like $25, I swear someone had mentioned that earlier in the thread but I can't seem to locate it. That's probably a better option if Samsung does make spares.

T-Max

10-22-07, 07:42 PM

The general consensus seemed to be that using a Harmony (expensive!) remote was the only real option and even that wasn't perfect because the dash key and a couple others aren't programmed in automatically.....
Thanks for the good info and quick response. I pretty much figured the remote was required but just thought I'd ask anyway. I should have just done a word search for "remote" first, but I figured I'd take the lazy man approach and I'm not sure if you can do a search on just one thread rather than the entire forum.

I've seen a few of these boxes offered on ebay without the remote, which is why I inquired. I guess those would only be good for a spare or 2nd for those who already have the remote.

I liked that first post you linked. Kind of a "my dog ate my remote" story.

:)

None of my dogs have ever eaten a remote, but one of my guys did eat a just-opened roll of stamps one time. That was awhile ago but it was still 29 bucks down the tube, so to speak.

He had a thing for the glue on 'em for awhile there and would often eat envelopes if I left them where he could get them.

And then the other guy noshed my money clip roll one time and downed a few bills. There wasn't any serious money involved but I actually did pick thru their poop to see how much I had lost (cuz I wasn't sure how much I had) and I did find a piece of a Fiver. I'm sure I lost more on the roll of stamps deal and I think I figured out that he was also responsible for the money clip thing because he was after some glue-related item that I had clipped to the money clip. Apparently, the other guy just ate the money on a follow-the-leader kind of thing.

They were a pair for sure.

Thanks again for the info.

DonB2

10-23-07, 11:35 AM

T-Max ,

Did you refer to them as the "Lads" as per Magnum PI?

What the heck happens to all the remotes???????

Anyway I programmed a Samsung model one generation older than yours using the included codes in a cheapy Radio Shack All in on Family remote.

As I recall I used a Samsung Sat code for most all of the functions and than used advanced codes for dash and few other needed codes on the Samsung.

I think the following is the site I gleaned the info from:

http://hifi-remote.com/forums/index.php?sid=a744b46b4da24b18f935870e5316735b

-DonB2

Whidbey

10-23-07, 02:06 PM

I think replacement remotes can be had for like $25, I swear someone had mentioned that earlier in the thread but I can't seem to locate it. That's probably a better option if Samsung does make spares.

Kinda pricey for an original remote:
http://www.electronicadventure.us/Merchant2/merchant.mv?screen=prod&store_code=EA&product_code=MF5900291B

And even more pricey for the same thing:
http://www.remotes.com/remotes/servlet/rs?a=Search&o=c&m1=dtb-H260F&uid=11931626787650

James

Jake247

10-27-07, 09:09 PM

Samsung DTB-H260F STB
Channels open, Comcast North of Boston

Bunch of Audio stations ~82?

80-7 Barker for On Demand
87-15 Barker for On Demand
100-19 The worldnetwork.org
104-101 Encore Barker Page
105-101 Barker for On Demand

112-1 ABC HD Ch 4
112-2 CBS HD Ch 5
112-3 NBC HD Ch 7

113-1 Fox HD Ch 25
113-2 WMUR 9 HD
113-3 NH HD

Cpo33

10-28-07, 11:23 AM

bcarlsen

10-28-07, 12:12 PM

Hi,

I am thinking of getting this tuner mainly for its QAM tuner for receiving the unscrambled broadcast digital cable channels (poor OTA reception in my area). However, I want to know if this tuner allows manually adding or deleting QAM channels as auto scan may pick up hundreds of fake channels? If not, is there a work around? I am sure this was talked about somewhere in this huge thread, but sorting through it to find the answer is tedious. :eek: Thank you very much in advance.

You can manually delete the channels you want. You can also setup your "favorite" channels (maybe you don't want to delete the music channels, but you also don't want to have to flip through them all when you're channel surfing).

Cpo33

10-28-07, 12:28 PM

Thanks for the info. It sounds good enough.

You can manually delete the channels you want. You can also setup your "favorite" channels (maybe you don't want to delete the music channels, but you also don't want to have to flip through them all when you're channel surfing).

wildgoose

10-28-07, 03:12 PM

I am thinking of getting this tuner mainly for its QAM tuner for receiving the unscrambled broadcast digital cable channels (poor OTA reception in my area).

I have just gotten this for the exact same purpose. It works with my comcast basic cable. Comcast put a filter that blocks out channel 36-72, but I found no problem picking up the HD and digital channels. I do notice that I get more reliable reception if I remove all the splitter to each room. So I now just have one line into the Samsung directly. (I was having trouble getting ABC HD with the 5-1000mhz splitter).

It found 200+ channels. It was kind of tedious to flip through them all and write down which one has material. But I found all the local HD stations. On the Samsung, when you setup the channels, you can erase all stations on the current channels display "page" (each page shows about 20..), and manually add the ones you want on that page. Slightly faster than deleting them one by one. Several pages I was just using delete-all.

You DON'T get channel guide with cable. Which kinda sucks. You do get all the other info such as station-id (only with the FOX/CBS/ABC/PBS..), and info such as 480i, 720p, 1080i, etc. With OTA material you get the full channel guide.

It's worth pointing out that the Samsung has a "air + cable" mode. Not show what kind of combiner you would use to combine the air channels with cable (I've heard they are on the same bandwidth..), but theoretically you can have both I guess. I tried using the splitter in reverse, didn't work. ;)