Blue circle, Joule, ARC, BAT, CJ: How do they compare?

Don't know how they compare but I have a CJ LS14 preamp that I use with CJ 140 Amp, Accuphase transport and processor and WP 7...I like it very much...I am considering changing the preamp to Shindo..

A real good tube preamp for the buck is the one made by the same company that does all my cables and power cords - Granite Audio. www.graniteaudio.com

At the 2004 CES, the Granite Audio room had very high marks with Von Schweikert VR4Jrs
using the Granite Audio tube preamp and power amps.

A real good tube preamp for the buck is the one made by the same company that does all my cables and power cords - Granite Audio. www.graniteaudio.com

At the 2004 CES, the Granite Audio room had very high marks with Von Schweikert VR4Jrs
using the Granite Audio tube preamp and power amps.

Umm. I thought they were best known for tube power amps.

I was hoping OB would chime in, he seems to have lots of experience with these things.

SM

Umm. I thought they were best known for tube power amps.

I was hoping OB would chime in, he seems to have lots of experience with these things.

SM

All of the ones that you mention are very good. Of course I am partial to the ARC Ref 3 which IMO is the finest tube preamp I have ever owned. Others that need to be mentioned are

Lamm L2 Reference...excellent however for me the deal breaker was no remote... I could live with the dual mono BUT a remote is essential.

VTL 7.5

CJ Act 2

Aesthetix---but again no remote and dual mono

These are all creme de la creme however there is a certain magic withthe Ref 3 that IMO is lacking with all of the others. In fact I was hoping to achieve that magic by pairing my Lamm ML 2.1's with Vladimir's L2. A fellow audiophile brought his to my house one afternoon and we demoed both. It was no contest even in the words of my friend. All he could do was shake his head.

Marc Mickelson the Editor of Soundstage used to swear by his VTL 7.5 and said that it was the best preamp especially when paired with the Lamm ML 2.1's. I suggested to Marc that he get a Ref 3 in for demo which he did as well as a review. Marc was so smitten that he sold his VTL 7.5 for the Ref3. Just my opinion but for those who have heard it understand my feelings. It really is that good.

Here is the link

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/arc_reference3/

Here is his review on the VTL which has since undergone an upgrade


http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/vtl_tl75.htm

OB is learning fast with the multiple posts like I taught him. In no time he will be the leader of the forum not just in tweaks and high end audio, but in # of posts!!!

OB is learning fast with the multiple posts like I taught him. In no time he will be the leader of the forum not just in tweaks and high end audio, but in # of posts!!!

Hah @@@@!!!

Hah @@@@!!!

Oh is also learning another "bad" habit from me - my "Hah @@@@!!!" trademark on AVS forum. Hah@@@!!!

OB - for variety's sake, you can do this many ways. Be creative:

Hah@@@@!!!
HAH@@@@!!!!

Basically, any combination, in any order, of Hah, @ and !. And feel free to capitalize any letters of Hah as you see fit!!!@@@@HAH!

Enjoy. This will give you something to do other than demo tube amps all the time@@!!!!!!!hAH!!!!!!!!!! :D

And don't forget to add a Smily or two at the end, too. You are a fast learner.

I have really enjoyed the Ref 3. I also like ARC's factory support, which can keep a great product like this running for decades.

IMHO, Blue Circle and BAT are distant cousins sonically...on the warm side (although neither are "tubey"), with more emphasis on body than "air". ARC probably offers a leaner sound with more "holography". Am not familier enough with the others to comment.

As always, YMMV...

(disclaimer: I'm a Blue Circle dealer and own Blue Circle gear for my own personal enjoyment)...

Oh is also learning another "bad" habit from me - my "Hah @@@@!!!" trademark on AVS forum. Hah@@@!!!



At the risk of staying on topic . . .

How does the Ref 2 compare to the Ref 3?

I agree with the remote issue.

I am also pondering bi-amping. So presumably having more than one output makes that neater. Are the diff and single ended outputs on simultaneously, or is it one or the other?

I owned the Ref 2 Mk ll prior to the Ref 3. It was very good and IMO I thought I was done with preamps until I heard the Ref 3. The sound stage...depth and width as well as the holographic image with the Ref 3 is spine tingling

I had the Ref II mk ii before the Ref 3. I thought the Ref 2 sounded like it had a slight phase shift, which added to the illusion of space but was not necessarily accurate. To me the 3 has greater resolution and is more faithful to the source. The 3 excels in spatiality and imaging, but again the presentation is more closely tied to the source material, as opposed to being an artifact that is consistently presented. I would also say that to me the 2 sounded slightly warmer, the 3 being more neutral. Both preamps also excel at presenting tonal colors in a pleasant, natural way. Hope this is helpful to you.

The Ref IIs are going for 1/2 of a Ref III, putting them at a really nice price point. The IIIs require "careful contemplation".

Well I've just bought a McIntosh C220 Valve (well 2 actually) Pre-Amp, works for me.

The Ref IIs are going for 1/2 of a Ref III, putting them at a really nice price point. The IIIs require "careful contemplation".

If you were never to have heard ther Ref3 you would be very happy with the Ref 2 ...Please make sure that it is the "Mk ll". However I have seen a Ref 3 sell recently on Audiogon for $6500 so I would say that sales price on the Ref 2 Mk ll at $5K is probably to high. I would recommend between $3500-$4500 at most.

Although its a PITA, it's obviously very helpful if you can arrange some way to get the candidates in your own systems and listen to the differences for a while. That always helps me rationalize shelling out the long green. LOL.

Although its a PITA, it's obviously very helpful if you can arrange some way to get the candidates in your own systems and listen to the differences for a while. That always helps me rationalize shelling out the long green. LOL.

I live in a small city. Tweeter is as high end as it gets.

If you were never to have heard ther Ref3 you would be very happy with the Ref 2 ...Please make sure that it is the "Mk ll". However I have seen a Ref 3 sell recently on Audiogon for $6500 so I would say that sales price on the Ref 2 Mk ll at $5K is probably to high. I would recommend between $3500-$4500 at most.

I'd definitely go $6500 for the Ref 3. $3500 - $4000 for a Ref 2 would also be attractive. I could always resell for minimal loss. I'll keep my eyes open. Thanks.

SM

I understand how difficult it can be to even casually listen to a product before buying. In this case, I also think you will be very happy with either product. Good luck finding something; hope to hear how it turns out.

For a change of pace, how about a Wavestream Kinetics? It's not quite out yet but if their phonoamp (and the prototype) is any indication it will equal or better the Aesthetix. (No remote, though.)

So this thread's topic of a good preamp should give more info on the rest of his system, otherwise the replies will just list brands & types and preferred tastes.

I'm just starting to put together a 2 channel system around a pair of Dali M5s. They don't quite make it into the $20K+ category, but they are what I got.
Currently I have recycled a ATI 2505, a Tag AV32, and Panny 91 to things up and going. I was going to use a Bel Canto Seti40, but I don't think it is good fit the speakers because of the efficiency of the speakers. Additionally, the SETi's don't have pre outs, so I can't bi-amp the speakers. My plan is to go tubes on the High/mid posts, and solid state on the low end. I need to start with a pre to do that.

Several years ago I had a Audible Illusions Pre , a Proceed amp2 and B&W 802sIII. I really liked the AI. I just want to "take it up a notch" (or two).

"I sold my VTL TL-7.5, mostly to wait for the TL-7.5 Series 2, which has 6dB less gain, so it would work with a wider range of amps.").

Rene---that statement actually tells us why Marc switched back---it was for no other reason but that he reviews so many amplifiers as editor of Soundstage. The 6Db less of gain merely allows for him to audition more amps without needing to make appropriate changes to his preamp.

BTW, as best I remember, the TL 7.5 series 1 also had similar 6Db less gain. I remember talking to Marc about this issue.

So this thread's topic of a good preamp should give more info on the rest of his system, otherwise the replies will just list brands & types and preferred tastes.

I agree completely especially when you state "Synergy 1+1 =3. I was hoping for that when I auditioned the Lamm L2 with my ML 2.1's. Unfortunately the greater synergy was with the Ref 3 even by the admission of my friend who had the L2 that day.

So this thread's topic of a good preamp should give more info on the rest of his system, otherwise the replies will just list brands & types and preferred tastes.

OK. So I have an SME 20/2 turntable -> Koetsu Platinum Onyx cartridge -> Wavestream Kinetics phonoamp -> Conrad Johnson Premier LS 16.2 preamp -> Wavestream V-8 amplifier.

I am replacing the CJ 16.2 with a Wavestream preamp which is what I am recommending for your consideration.

Smokester

Have you had a listen to CJ ACT 2?

Have you had a listen to CJ ACT 2?

No. I consider the CJ 16.2 (now discontinued) to be excellent. I originally thought it was crap until the rest of the system improved revealing its true capabilities. It's not a warm/fuzzy unit like the CJ reputation would have one think. It's actually very transparent and can be had for less than $4k used. I bought mine new some years ago.

I have heard the CJ ART (also discontinued and predecessor to the ACT) which is also excellent. At the time I got the CJ16.2 my system was not high enough resolution to justify the ART (or even the 16.2). I can only imagine that the ACT is absolutely fantastic.

I have to admit that, while I expect the new Wavestream preamp to be at least as good or better than the CJ's, it is mainly the compulsion of having a (rare) complete Wavestream system that drives me to upgrade.

I have to admit that, while I expect the new Wavestream preamp to be at least as good or better than the CJ's, it is mainly the compulsion of having a (rare) complete Wavestream system that drives me to upgrade.

This is begging for a BAAS event ;)

I can only imagine that the ACT is absolutely fantastic.

There are many critics who feel that the ACT 2 is in the elite top 3 of all high end preamps

Has anyone heard and compared Shindo preamps with some of the ones mentioned? I heard their $25K model and was very impressed...I have read great reviews of the $8K one with built in phono stage...

A rule of thumb always will have exceptions and I can imagine your are giving right now a good example.

precisely not only my point but also yours

Sorry to dreg this up again, but is the presence or absense of balanced ins/outs, or topology important? I have my opinion, but I'd like to hear what others think.

Purists such as Vladimir Lamm do not like XLR connections. In fact the XLR inputs to his ML 2.1 are pseudobalanced. If you are using long interconnects then this is the only reason to use XLR

ARC Ref 3 has both SE and XLR

I don't know Vlad doesn't like balanced connectware, but I can say long single ended/unbalanced cables get very noisy at like 20-30 feet.

When I combined my theater setup with my 2 channel rig, I went to 6 meter long Audioquest Anaconda balanced interconnects between preamp & amp. I do not notice any difference from the 1 meter versions I was previously using; 2 ch still sounds great.

This is begging for a BAAS event

OB: I just noticed your post. Okay. That would be wonderful if you guys would help me celebrate when it** arrives. I expect it sometime this fall but Scott will be ready when he's ready.

When it comes I will announce it and we'll have a gathering at my place.


** It being the WaveStream Kinetics Preamp

FWIW: I found a good deal on a CJ Act2 and went for it. I was a tad concerned about the lack of balanced outs, but this is for a 2-channel system and the interconnects are going to be a meter or two, so I decided it was moot.

Next on the agenda is power amp, but I need chill for a bit, since I just bought speakers, two subs (for another room), and the pre.

I want to thank everyone.

FWIW: I found a good deal on a CJ Act2 and went for it. I was a tad concerned about the lack of balanced outs, but this is for a 2-channel system and the interconnects are going to be a meter or two, so I decided it was moot.

Next on the agenda is power amp, but I need chill for a bit, since I just bought speakers, two subs (for another room), and the pre.

I want to thank everyone.

you'll love the CJ ACT 2

Anyone want to share any experiences with a Cary SLP 98 versus the ARC Ref 2 or CJ units? Same ballpark, different ballpark, different league?

I found a good deal on a CJ Act2 ...

Good move!

Adding my opinion to the chorus, the difference between single ended and balanced is only relevant for long interconnects where the latter can suppress various external sources of noise via common mode rejection.

Good move!




I can't wait to play it.
Yet, it still doesn't make me legit in the $20K forum . . . :eek: :o

If you were never to have heard ther Ref3 you would be very happy with the Ref 2 ...Please make sure that it is the "Mk ll". However I have seen a Ref 3 sell recently on Audiogon for $6500 so I would say that sales price on the Ref 2 Mk ll at $5K is probably to high. I would recommend between $3500-$4500 at most.

Our mutual friend likes the Ref 1 better than the Ref 2. OB--you ever hear one?

KR

Anyone want to share any experiences with a Cary SLP 98 versus the ARC Ref 2 or CJ units? Same ballpark, different ballpark, different league?

I love that preamp and have owned it twice :)

Very different sounding than Ref 2 (i don't like Ref 2 at all really). CJ is too lush for me typically...although ahve heard some great systems with the higher end gear in there.

For the money, SLP98 is a great preamp to pick up used and tyr out for awhile---especially if you are new to tubes.

btw, anyone hear the Einstein yet? It has gotten many raves....

I love that preamp and have owned it twice :)

.

I have never heard one, but it sure has eye appeal. They look sweet! There is one on Audiogon now. I pondered it, as well as another Audible Illusions, the CJ CT5 and a host of "last gen" preamps.
Ultimately, I decided to fly First Class.

Our mutual friend likes the Ref 1 better than the Ref 2. OB--you ever hear one?

KR

I haven't...but Keith, have you heard the Ref 3?

even though it does not use tubes; another preamp to consider is the battery powered darTZeel NHB-18NS. it does output both SE and XLR as well as the proprietary BNC 'zeel' 50 ohm connector when using the dart amp. my reason for chiming in is it's very natural non-solid state sound. the phono stage, being battery powered, sounds amazing (the best i've heard) and it's low noise and good gain works great with my Koetsu RSP (so it would work well with your Onyx too).

the normal advantage of a separate phono stage is the separate power supply.....but with battery power it's not an issue. you get the lower noise advantage of no interconnect and short signal paths.

you can sell your phono stage and interconnect between your phono stage and pre.......as well as expensive power cords.....since you don't need them with battery power. it has a simple remote for volume and mute.

you have not heard dynamics and detail in a pre until you've heard battery power done right.

this is just a thought to consider; the dart pre is not 'tubey' sounding in that 'golden glow' sort of way like the traditional CJ sound......however it has that 'breath of life' aspect of tubes that the ART ACT II and the ARC Ref 3 have but with lower noise and more dynamics.

the build quality is second to none.....a swiss jewel.

http://www.dartzeel.com/pages_E/NHB18_info_E.html

Different sounding how? More mellow?


[QUOTE=KeithR]I love that preamp and have owned it twice :)

Very different sounding than Ref 2 (i don't like Ref 2 at all really). CJ is too lush for me typically...although ahve heard some great systems with the higher end gear in there.
QUOTE]

I can't wait to play it.
Yet, it still doesn't make me legit in the $20K forum . . .

That's okay. You can make up for it by buying the appropriate amp.

I haven't...but Keith, have you heard the Ref 3?

Of course I have. I haven't heard it A/B'd against anything else unfortunately or in my system though.

Different sounding how? More mellow?


[QUOTE=KeithR]I love that preamp and have owned it twice :)

Very different sounding than Ref 2 (i don't like Ref 2 at all really). CJ is too lush for me typically...although ahve heard some great systems with the higher end gear in there.
QUOTE]

The ARC is much more SS-like in nature. The Cary is more euphonic and the vocal sits in front of you....vs the ARC which is back/middle of the soundstage The ARC probably has more detail/extension. The Cary just "boogies" more as well.

I would love to try the F1 version of the SLP-98.

KR

Thanks Keith for the reply. I was thinking about the Cary SLP98P F1 with a Moscode 401 into the Salk HT3's. Have a MF A5 CD and am about to jump to the Cary 303/300.

Anybody venture a guess on that sound??

I really like the free shipping both ways on the Moscode if you return it within 33.3 days.

you'll love the CJ ACT 2

Got it today. What a wonderful pre-amp! Clearly the best pre-amp I have ever owned.

Happy listening

Got it today. What a wonderful pre-amp!

How exciting. Please let us know what it sounds like.

How exciting. Please let us know what it sounds like.

One unexpected thing happened while I was playing some of my standard test CDs (Bela Flec - Cosmic Hippo, Cowboy Junkies - Trinity, and Keb Mo). I started with Cowboy Junkies and heard abunch of low level noise I never heard. So I cranked it up, and clear as day, there was a bunch of backgound noise I never heard. Well, I thought that there was something wrong with the pre, so I switched to Keb. That CD was a quite as could be. So I put Trinity back on and listened. I think it was street noise, but I'm not sure. Then in several cuts I noticed some strange bass overtones. I thought that it might be my room. So I switched to Cosmic Hippo, and they were gone. I have listed to Trinity Sessions hundreds of times and never heard this before. Is it my system or is that stuff really on the CD and I've missed it all this years? I have a lot more playing around to do. Clearly my the pre amp and speakers are far more revealing than any system I have ever owned.

It could be that your noise floor was lowered significantly. This would allow you to hear stuff that you never heard before. I believe a good preamp is supposed to do that for a system.

It could be that your noise floor was lowered significantly. This would allow you to hear stuff that you never heard before. I believe a good preamp is supposed to do that for a system.
I know. I just didn'texpect it to be so dramatic. Prior to this I was using a Tag pre/pro which isn't exactly a low rent device.

Sometimes it hits you like a hammer. I am going to get a dedicated pre in the future. When I do, I hope to have similar revelations.

btw, my next preamp will be the Supratek or Modwright I think. A speaker change may be ocurring first however!

One unexpected thing happened while I was playing some of my standard test CDs (Bela Flec - Cosmic Hippo, Cowboy Junkies - Trinity, and Keb Mo). I started with Cowboy Junkies and heard abunch of low level noise I never heard. So I cranked it up, and clear as day, there was a bunch of backgound noise I never heard. Well, I thought that there was something wrong with the pre, so I switched to Keb. That CD was a quite as could be. So I put Trinity back on and listened. I think it was street noise, but I'm not sure. Then in several cuts I noticed some strange bass overtones. I thought that it might be my room. So I switched to Cosmic Hippo, and they were gone. I have listed to Trinity Sessions hundreds of times and never heard this before. Is it my system or is that stuff really on the CD and I've missed it all this years? I have a lot more playing around to do. Clearly my the pre amp and speakers are far more revealing than any system I have ever owned.

i assume that this 'low level noise' was on track 1 "Mining For Gold"........on the 45rpm Lp (at least thru the dart preamp) this is clearly some 'ambient mine noise' added to the mix at a later time.

it is always funny to me how people think digital has a lower noise floor than vinyl.....and it's not even close......low level noise is dramatically easier to hear on vinyl compared to any digital. what sounds like 'noise' on digital comes alive on vinyl.

to be fair; this 'ambient mine noise' was also clear thru my Placette and Lamm LP2 phono stage.....although not quite to the same degree.

i assume that this 'low level noise' was on track 1 "Mining For Gold"........on the 45rpm Lp (at least thru the dart preamp) this is clearly some 'ambient mine noise' added to the mix at a later time.

it is always funny to me how people think digital has a lower noise floor than vinyl.....and it's not even close......low level noise is dramatically easier to hear on vinyl compared to any digital. what sounds like 'noise' on digital comes alive on vinyl.

to be fair; this 'ambient mine noise' was also clear thru my Placette and Lamm LP2 phono stage.....although not quite to the same degree.

Yes. That's what I heard.

It could be that your noise floor was lowered significantly.

Yes. And also the frequency response has maybe been extended down lower. It is surprising how much traffic, air conditioning, and general rustling noises shows up on recordings at the low frequencies. The Starker Bach Cello Suites--a superb Mercury classic recorded between 1963 and 1965--has a lot of this low-level rumble which can't be heard on many systems.

Six months ago, upgraded from Bryston 4BST (250 Watts) to Bryston 14BSST (600 watts) for Aerial 10Ts. Dramatically improved detail, imaging and bass. Just replaced Proceed Pre with Cary SLP05, which has provided the final magical touch. The best way to describe the sound is gorgeous.

Had a similar experience. I upgraded from a 4bsst to a 14bsst with a pair of totem shamans and a Cary spl-98l tube pre. Gorgeous indeed. I was awestruck during my first listen. ;)

i just heard the mac 2200 tube pre and it is indeed quite good for the money. you can tube roll as you please, stock it is a very engaging and musical piece.

Nothing beats the CJ ACT2 IMHO. I have the scaled down one box version the Prem 16ls and love it to no end.

My 2 cents.

Any suggestions for a good tube amp for hard to drive 4ohm 85db sensitivity speakers?

This is a great thread. Yeah, the low-level noises on Trinity Sessions are indeed startling if you haven't heard them before. My system gained manyfold recently when I installed the revelatory RSA Sason speakers. Even with the great-but-budget Modwright SWL 9.0SE pre, into a Krell KSA-100 (the original; the only Krell series I can stand, and I've tried to replace it for many many years....the Moscode 401HR trial didn't do it either) those low level thumps and "mine sounds" on Mining For Gold, and the whispering, street noises, and low level subway rumbles on 2-3 others came through like I'd never heard the cd before.

Anyway......Dan Wright is likely going to do a new pre in 2007, which will be on my list, but so are the ARC Ref 3, the VTL 7.5 Mark II and then I'm open to a couple others (maybe even the ARC LS26...some say 95% of Ref 3, some say not) I like that all those I've listed are tubed, highly resolving, and include an HT bypass,and an invert phase function remotely (weird pet peeve of mine). I need to stay tubed because my Krell will easily slip into analytical cold (as it's fellow Krell amps all do by default, ever since that next KSA Mk II series) without the right vacuum front end.
Guess I should include the Cary SLP-05 in that evaluation (no phase invert). Any others I'm missing? The CJ sound is too syrupy for me...but that's a pretty broad statement, and pretty old perspective.....Thx

I like that all those I've listed are tubed, highly resolving, and include an HT bypass,and an invert phase function remotely (weird pet peeve of mine).

Guess I should include the Cary SLP-05 in that evaluation (no phase invert).

Maybe a bit OT but is invert phase similar to changing the cable polarity on the back of the speakers or something different? I have played around with this feature a little bit on my LS26 and can't seem to hear any difference.

Maybe a bit OT but is invert phase similar to changing the cable polarity on the back of the speakers or something different? I have played around with this feature a little bit on my LS26 and can't seem to hear any difference.

You got it. And you are in good company as I can't hear any difference either on my Cary slp-98.

You got it. And you are in good company as I can't hear any difference either on my Cary slp-98.


Only one of my audio buddies 'states' that he can hear a difference. I have also never been able to

Only one of my audio buddies 'states' that he can hear a difference. I have also never been able to

Yeah, but I hear it quit distinctly. Wierd. It's people like me that are the reason those invert polarity switches exists....and yes, switching red/black at speakers or amp (not both) is same thing. Howver, when you biwire or biamp, and have Cardas speaker terminations,e tc it is a chore to switch. In most cases, the difference is inaudible, but on some discs it's literally a no-brainer difference (for me). Believe me, I wish it wasn;t, but the change in absolute poalrity can impact vocals, solidity of center image, etc.

In theory it depends how the recording engineers miked the CD. I guess I don't own CDs or speakers that require change of polarity.

In theory it depends how the recording engineers miked the CD. I guess I don't own CDs or speakers that require change of polarity.
The phase is so screwed up in some recordings that it is impossible to hear a difference. It would be most evident in a minimalist recording (old direct to disc recordings might be good examples). Needless to say, ones own system must be properly wired (and I don't mean 5 figure cables).

Reviving this thread for a bit, I am considering jumping on a used Conrad Johnson ACT2. Apparently Conrad Johnson now has an ACT 2 series 2 as a replacement for the original ACT-2.

Here's the basic info:The series 2 version of the ACT2 features some upgrades to the power supply; some improved parts including two quieter power transformers. Adding some additional internal shielding and changing the ground topologies cut 2-3 db of noise on an already quiet tube design.

There has been a price increase as well; The current ACT 2 now is $16,500,

The ACT series 3 will have even better performance, but I can't have one and as they are only making 25, you probably can't either.

The complete review of the ACT 2 series 2 is on the CJ web. Click on the ACT 2 under the category preamplifiers. It's written by Jeff Dorgary at Tone Audio.

http://www.conradjohnson.com/It_just_sounds_right/reviews.html

After speaking with CJ, current ACT-2 owners can upgrade their units to the Series 2 for $5-$6 K.

Reviving this thread for a bit, I am considering jumping on a used Conrad Johnson ACT2. Apparently Conrad Johnson now has an ACT 2 series 2 as a replacement for the original ACT-2.

Here's the basic info:

The complete review of the ACT 2 series 2 is on the CJ web. Click on the ACT 2 under the category preamplifiers. It's written by Jeff Dorgary at Tone Audio.

http://www.conradjohnson.com/It_just_sounds_right/reviews.html

Probably one of the top 3 tube preamps available IMO

OB,

I am a bit torn between the ARC Reference 3 and the CJ ACT-2, but without the ability to audition, I think I'll go with the CJ product. I do not have the level of equipment you or many of the guys here in the 20K forum own, but I think the CJ in my situation may have a bit more tube warmth output with my Dali's as I am trying to rid myself of some digital harshness that I am experiencing. I think as you have suggested previously either pre pro is a win-win situation.

OB,

I am a bit torn between the ARC Reference 3 and the CJ ACT-2, but without the ability to audition, I think I'll go with the CJ product. I do not have the level of equipment you or many of the guys here in the 20K forum own, but I think the CJ in my situation may have a bit more tube warmth output with my Dali's as I am trying to rid myself of some digital harshness that I am experiencing. I think as you have suggested previously either pre pro is a win-win situation.


Careful with your assumptions, a transparent preamp will make digital harshness MORE obvious, not less.

Careful with your assumptions, a transparent preamp will make digital harshness MORE obvious, not less.

I believe the digital harshness he is referring to is from his home theater pre/pro and thus the CJ would remove that.

OB,

I am a bit torn between the ARC Reference 3 and the CJ ACT-2, but without the ability to audition, I think I'll go with the CJ product. I do not have the level of equipment you or many of the guys here in the 20K forum own, but I think the CJ in my situation may have a bit more tube warmth output with my Dali's as I am trying to rid myself of some digital harshness that I am experiencing. I think as you have suggested previously either pre pro is a win-win situation.

you should audition both before you buy.

Have a listen also to the preamp that my friend grellberg uses the top of the line Aesthetix which IMO is also phenomenal especially with a dual power supply

Finally have a listen to Vladimir Lamm's L2 Reference

I believe the digital harshness he is referring to is from his home theater pre/pro and thus the CJ would remove that.

Correct..

It's been a while, but some time ago I ditched my C220 (muddled bass) in favour of a Musical Fidelity KW Hybrid Pre-Amp along with a MF KW 750 Power Amp, not to mention a Marantz SA-7S1 SACD/CD Player. Now I hear a musical quality thru my PMC IB1 speakers like never before. Cost an arm and a leg, but what the hell, I like what I hear and feel from my system.

Best preamp I have used is the BWS linestage:

http://www.bws-tube.com/htm/preamp.html

http://www.bws-tube.com/images/bwsfrt3.jpg

It's been a while, but some time ago I ditched my C220 (muddled bass) in favour of a Musical Fidelity KW Hybrid Pre-Amp along with a MF KW 750 Power Amp, not to mention a Marantz SA-7S1 SACD/CD Player. Now I hear a musical quality thru my PMC IB1 speakers like never before. Cost an arm and a leg, but what the hell, I like what I hear and feel from my system.
The stock Chinese Mac 12AX7 tubes don't do that pre-amp justice. Once I installed Telefunken tubes the bass became much more natural and articulate. Same with the McIntosh mc2102 amp.

It's been a while, but some time ago I ditched my C220 (muddled bass) in favour of a Musical Fidelity KW Hybrid Pre-Amp along with a MF KW 750 Power Amp, not to mention a Marantz SA-7S1 SACD/CD Player. Now I hear a musical quality thru my PMC IB1 speakers like never before. Cost an arm and a leg, but what the hell, I like what I hear and feel from my system.
The stock Chinese Mac 12AX7 tubes don't do that pre-amp justice. Once I installed Telefunken tubes the bass became much more natural and articulate. Same with the McIntosh mc2102 amp.

I love my CJ Act-2

I love my CJ Act-2

Well, I did purchase the CJ Act-2 Swampfox so it should arrive sometime next week. I am looking forward to connecting and experiencing the results. If I don't like what I am hearing, I can always sell it as I was able to find a good price on this piece with a warranty included.

One of the items with the CJ line that did intrigue me was the resurfacing of the ACT product line where they are only making 25 units.

Many thanks to the gents on AVS who assisted in providing PM and posting feedback.

Charles

Well, I did purchase the CJ Act-2 Swampfox so it should arrive sometime next week. I am looking forward to connecting and experiencing the results. If I don't like what I am hearing, I can always sell it as I was able to find a good price on this piece with a warranty included.

One of the items with the CJ line that did intrigue me was the resurfacing of the ARC product line where they are only making 25 units.

Many thanks to the gents on AVS who assisted in providing PM and posting feedback.

Charles


Are you implying that there is a pending upgrade to the Ref3?

Are you implying that there is a pending upgrade to the Ref3?

OB.. I think you were referring to the CJ ACT2?? If this is the case, they do have an upgraded newer version from the original ACT2 now designated as the series 2. I don't think you can purchase the original ACT2 new unless it's a demo/used unit.

However, in the Tone mag article, the writer who spoke with CJ mentioned that they were building a total of 25 NEW ART-3 pieces that were either already slotted for owners or perhaps, available for purchase if one gets in line. If you have an interest in finding out more, give CJ a call. I was a nobody to them when I called there and they were most congenial and receptive to my questions even though I was purchasing a used piece.

I know you are completely happy with your ARC Ref3, but after reading your posts here and on various forums, you are always searching for the "Holy Grail."

OB.. I think you were referring to the CJ ACT2?? If this is the case, they do have an upgraded newer version from the original ACT2 now designated as the series 2. I don't think you can purchase the original ACT2 new unless it's a demo/used unit.

However, in the Tone mag article, the writer who spoke with CJ mentioned that they were building a total of 25 NEW ART-3 pieces that were either already slotted for owners or perhaps, available for purchase if one gets in line. If you have an interest in finding out more, give CJ a call. I was a nobody to them when I called there and they were most congenial and receptive to my questions even though I was purchasing a used piece.

I know you are completely happy with your ARC Ref3, but after reading your posts here and on various forums, you are always searching for the "Holy Grail."

I have great respect for the CJ ACT2 and consider it to be top tier of tube preamps but honestly I just enjoy the Ref3 so much that for my ears it is "the Holy Grail"

In your post you said 25 units of ARC and hence my confusion

I have great respect for the CJ ACT2 and consider it to be top tier of tube preamps but honestly I just enjoy the Ref3 so much that for my ears it is "the Holy Grail"

In your post you said 25 units of ARC and hence my confusion

You are correct.. ARC - ACT.. I'll make the change in the post. I apologize for the confusion. Perhaps it was a subliminal message calling out for me to purchase the ARC 3? :) Also, sleepless nights with a 3 year old bouncing off the walls at 3 AM can make a fuzzy brain in the morning. :)

OB- wasn't there an issue with the L2 you used?

OB- wasn't there an issue with the L2 you used?


None...I just liked the Ref 3 better