I have been by Lexicon directly that it is officially closed as the focus is on the new model. I was told this in my store by them. I did ask for software allowing for 7.1 LPCM and 24fps since 24 is actually less bandwidth than 720P, and the suggestions were noted, but again focus is on the MV line.

Yes I want my upgrade, but unlike some (mjaudio) who will be the first in line, I'm going to wait until after I get some feedback about the upgrade before I send mine in. Frankly, I only want to send mine back once. I am very familiar with upgrades and how they can introduce problems that you didn't have before. Hopefully the upgrade won't have any bugs. That's why mj is going to be my geunia pig. Thanks mj.

Yes I want my upgrade, but unlike some (mjaudio) who will be the first in line, I'm going to wait until after I get some feedback about the upgrade before I send mine in. Frankly, I only want to send mine back once. I am very familiar with upgrades and how they can introduce problems that you didn't have before. Hopefully the upgrade won't have any bugs. That's why mj is going to be my geunia pig. Thanks mj.

I resemble that remark :mad:

You trying to call me a pig badgeometro? thems fighting words punk.............OK I will try my best to be first in line.................I want it NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I feel used, but at least it is only my pre-pro :D

Mjaudio and TheBland, your mission, if you decide to accept it, is too storm the gates of Halcro, get the HDMI Audio upgrade, and report back to this group.

This tape will self destruct in 5 seconds.....

Boom!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

I feel your pain in terms of having to wait, but I can only imagine how loud you would complain if they implemented a $1,300 upgrade, that had problems....

I have found Halcro to be one of the more approachable companys. So much so, that they call me and tell me these things. If the customer is ill informed here, then its their own fault in putting too much faith in their dealer, I guess. :confused:

The point of my post was that every machine that goes in, will need an update, but just not the same one. Their is a process that needs to be worked out, to make sure nothing goes wrong. I guess its like semiconductor manufacturing, where yields suck the first run and improve with each one successive run. Halco cannot afford to have low yields.

As for selling early machines that were screwed up, that is nothing new, especially from high end manufacturing. Porsche and Ferrari do this all the time, make changes to a particular model due to high failure rates or availability of parts. And very often, these are NOT minor items.

Personally, I applaud Halcro for fixing these issues in their earlier models. I only some CAR manufacturers would learn from them!

An aside, I don't have any relationship with Halcro and I am not a dealer. I am Australian though! :D

I fail to see what your comments have to do with Bad's point about it being so late, or mine about it being late and Halcro keeping the customers poorly informed.

Are you saying that because they "tweaked" the machine along it's product life that designing an upgrade is harder?

If so, I would counter that they shouldn't do that if the machines were fine from day 1, as they knew for a year, they were going to do an HDMI Audio upgrade?

Or, were the first machines sooo screwed up that the tweaks were absolutely necessary? If so, why was Halcro selling $10,000 screwed up machines?

You may see Halcro's point more than mine, but as a customer, I plopped down some serious cash for a sweet sounding unit. With that, I expect quick fixes when there are problems, and I expect good customer service.

Halcro made the upgrade path difficult for themselves. The customer has had to wait as a result, and you let Halcro off the hook for it as if it was someone else's doing.

IMO, they should at least be kicking butt in other aspects, by putting out firmware updates, improving their first level support, and keeping the customers informed.

I would be interested to see a poll that asks the Halcro SSP80 and SSP100 if they have needed to send their untis in for repair. I bet the rate would be high, and I bet many more would respond saying they have issues, but are working around them because they don't want to lose their unit for several weeks.

At times I think Halcro is trying to do right by their customers, but are working with a buggy architecture.

It is probably smart to re-vamp all the machines when they go in for upgrades so they have a cleaner architecture (although having to pay for an upgrade to get rid of bugs, isn't right).

Darrell

Personally, I'd have liked to have seen it earlier but late or not, they will be delivering 1080P support and 7.1 LPCM. Few others offer such with a high quality surround processor to boot. Now, if 90% of the surround processors had it now and Halcro was still lagging, that'd be a diffferent story. But essentially, no one has it now. I'm as anxious as anyone to get it...

The SSP80 does not have a scaler but if I understand correctly if you send a 1080P24 signal the SSP80 will just pass it through. I do not see why it would be any different.

Since your SSP80 does not have a scaler then whatever you feed it should be what you get out.

The logic is sound and I thought the same thing. But I have tried it with my SSP80 and it is outputting 1080p60. The source I am using is the PS3. Going from the PS3 directly to the JVC Rs1 I get 1080p24.
Just applied the latest patch to the PS3 (1.9) and used the 1080p24 On option which forces 24Hz. Get no picture.

So, right now the SSP80 does not support 1080p24 passthru.

Been trying to find out if the upgrade will support it but have not gotten any answers yet.

edited: correction the SSP80 is outputing 1080i60 and the Rs1 is deinterlacing it.

I have been by Lexicon directly that it is officially closed as the focus is on the new model. I was told this in my store by them. I did ask for software allowing for 7.1 LPCM and 24fps since 24 is actually less bandwidth than 720P, and the suggestions were noted, but again focus is on the MV line.

I realize this is a Halcro thread so I apologize but curiosity got the best of me here. Would you care to elaborate on this information a bit if possible? By officially closed are you (or Lexicon I guess) implying that there will be no more updates to the MC-12HD and is this MV line you speak of the successor to the MC line of surround sound processors? If so do you have any knowledge as to when Lexicon may be ready to publicly reveal any information? CEDIA or CES perhaps? Is there any information you can share? There is apparently a new receiver due out this fall (RV-5 I think) so could one potentially speculate on the feature set of this MV line based on what me may or may not see in the upcoming receiver if specific information about that line is not released at the same time?

Thanks,

Rod

The logic is sound and I thought the same thing. But I have tried it with my SSP80 and it is outputting 1080p60. The source I am using is the PS3. Going from the PS3 directly to the JVC Rs1 I get 1080p24.
Just applied the latest patch to the PS3 (1.9) and used the 1080p24 On option which forces 24Hz. Get no picture.

So, right now the SSP80 does not support 1080p24 passthru.

Been trying to find out if the upgrade will support it but have not gotten any answers yet.

edited: correction the SSP80 is outputing 1080i60 and the Rs1 is deinterlacing it.


The SSP80; I believe supports HDMI 1.1 which maybe the reason you are not getting 1080p24 pass thru. Somebody help me here. It is my understanding that the SSP100 supports HDMI 1.2 which provides for 1080p24 handshaking.

The Bland;;;; You have a a Halco and a Qualia 004; If you bypass the scaler are you getting 1080p 24 from your dvd player??

maybe by HDMI 2.0 we may get this whole thing fixed.

THe Lexicon is closed....I think that was confirmed by the Lex rep in the Lex forum.

My Qualia will not accept 1080P24...so I can't test.

BTW

I just noticed: My member status shows 165 messages posted for the last 20 postings.
Somebody holding me back here? This must be conspiracy created by Steve to supress the Halco people complaing about theta here.

Originally the PS3 did not output 1080p at 24hz.

With an earlier upgrade, the PS3 added 1080p at 24hz output. The problem was the only choices were off or automatic.

In the automatic setting the PS3 uses the HDMI cable to sense whether the display can accept a 1080p24 signal. If the display can accept the signal, the PS3 would output at 1080p24. The problem is that many recievers or HDMI splitters are in between the PS3 and the display, thus the PS3 decided that 1080p24 could not be accepted, and output at 1080p60.

Now with a forced 1080p24, the PS3 will be forced to output 1080p24, and those of us with the recievers or splitters in betwen our PS3 and display, will be able to enjoy 1080p24.


From Peter S 04-17-07 03:58 PM


The truth is, that for film-based material, there is no difference at all between 1080i and 1080p. The issue is that people STILL fail to make the distinction of TRANSMISSION vs. DISPLAY. The Qualia can only accept a 1080i/60 TRANSMISSION, but the DISPLAY is always 1080p. Since there is no motion-adaptive deinterlacing from 1080i FILM to 1080p, there is no issue.

Now, the newer Lumagens will output (TRANSMIT) 1080p/24sf which the Qualia can also accept and display. This gives you a 1:1 frame ratio to the original source film, thus eliminating motion effects from the pull-down translation from film to video. This is an ideal solution and far better than the very limited solution of a 1080p DVI input from Sony.

Everybody Got it now. HDMI sucks ....... Just keep thinking apples, oranges, apples ,oranges, more bs ,apples,oranges

1080P24 is not 1080P24sF (sorta like 1080i@48). 1080P24 requires more bandwidth.

But yes, HDMI and HDCP sucks. A poor implementation of copy protection and a physical connection.

It is my understanding that the SSP100 supports HDMI 1.2 which provides for 1080p24 handshaking.HDMI 1.1 can do 1080p24 just fine, as could all previous versions of HDMI and DVI. But specific resolution support isn't mandatory for either sources or sinks. So if a device can't do 1080p24, don't blame the DVI or HDMI specs! 1080P24 is not 1080P24sF (sorta like 1080i@48). 1080P24 requires more bandwidth.No, 1080p24 and 1080p24sf (and 1080i48) require the same bandwidth. 1080i60 requires 25% more.

OOPs...Thanks for the correction Mike.

I have had that wine and its great. Good choice.

Everybody Got it now. HDMI sucks ....... Just keep thinking apples, oranges, apples ,oranges, more bs ,apples,oranges


But yes, HDMI and HDCP sucks. A poor implementation of copy protection and a physical connection.

Completely agree with you guys. HDMI has been nothing but a headache for the consumer and the CE industry. Wish they just stuck with component and RGBHV.
Can't wait to see the effect of BD+ on blu ray consumers. :rolleyes:

This is kind of why I through the question out there about 1080p24 passthru on the Halcro. I've been trying to get this answered by Halcro and have not gotten a definitive answer from them. I thought one of you may have gone over this with them and gotten somewhere with it.

Like everthing HDMI there's a lot of uncertainty.

Got a call from Halcro today to put me in the queue for the upgrade. They are finishing up testing it in units they have on hand and will be starting the upgrades for units already in consumers' hands in the next week or two. As I have an older unit, they are shipping me a newer shipping carton in send it back in.
I'll keep you posted.

I was also told that this upgrade is for multi-channel PCM, not 1080p24. I was told that won't be coming until HDMI 1.3, and they've just received their developers' kits for that so it will be a while.

You are correct terrym4.... on all your information

QUOTE: I was told that won't be coming until HDMI 1.3, and they've just received their developers' kits for that so it will be a while.

Correction: Halco is not sure when the developer kits will arrive and what will be those kits when they arrive.

Not to confuse everyone; just because the developer kit is out there does not mean Halco will implement all or any of its features even though we don't know yet what those features are or when those features will actually be used or implented.

Everybody clear on this.

I no sooner posted my message when I got a call from Halcro informing me they had NOT received the developers' kit yet. My error. At least we know they're watching this board.

I was also told that this upgrade is for multi-channel PCM, not 1080p24. I was told that won't be coming until HDMI 1.3, and they've just received their developers' kits for that so it will be a while.

Thanks for the information Terry. At least now I know I'll have to buy an HDMI splitter if I want to take advantage of my 1080p24 sources.

I have been by Lexicon directly that it is officially closed as the focus is on the new model. I was told this in my store by them. I did ask for software allowing for 7.1 LPCM and 24fps since 24 is actually less bandwidth than 720P, and the suggestions were noted, but again focus is on the MV line.
Don't want to "hijack" the thread, but my search attempts have failed, can anybody point me to the right thread?

Can anybody tell me about this "MV" line? Or even point me to the Lex thread? SMR is not what it used to be for info.

I'm tired of waiting for a new pre/pro to replace my MC-12 V4 (the MC-12HDB trade in was too rich for my blood, and didn't have the features I was looking for)

I'm tired of disconnecting/swapping devices due to the limitations (no HDMI inputs, just 1 cable to my front projector, and no, I don't want a separate switcher).

Is it time to bail on Lex?

Sorry this is in the wrong place, but I think someone here will be able to point me in the right direction.

Thanks :D

Thanks for the information Terry. At least now I know I'll have to buy an HDMI splitter if I want to take advantage of my 1080p24 sources.Terry, do you mean to say that the Halcro won't even be able to pass through 1080p24? Or is it just unable to perform any processing on it?

Don't want to "hijack" the thread, but my search attempts have failed, can anybody point me to the right thread?

Can anybody tell me about this "MV" line? Or even point me to the Lex thread? SMR is not what it used to be for info.

I'm tired of waiting for a new pre/pro to replace my MC-12 V4 (the MC-12HDB trade in was too rich for my blood, and didn't have the features I was looking for)

I'm tired of disconnecting/swapping devices due to the limitations (no HDMI inputs, just 1 cable to my front projector, and no, I don't want a separate switcher).

Is it time to bail on Lex?

Sorry this is in the wrong place, but I think someone here will be able to point me in the right direction.

Thanks :D

If the Halcro comes through with 1080p support, and 7.1 audio over HDMI, it will be more versatile than the Lexicon, but only in certain respects. It still lacks, for example, room correction software.

Lexicon is still very much in the ball game. The reality is that no one at the high end is doing much these days, and it's pretty much wait-and-see.

Nick :cool:

Is it time to bail on Lex?

Sorry this is in the wrong place, but I think someone here will be able to point me in the right direction.

Thanks :D No, because no one actually has the features the you want in the market place. So far, Halcro has not delivered. If you want to switch your processor then I would not switch because of the HDMI issue. Not now as after all of this time, all of the major companies are likely no more than 6 to 9 months out from HDMI 1.3 solutions. In the big picture, that's not worth switching.

No, because no one actually has the features the you want in the market place. So far, Halcro has not delivered. If you want to switch your processor then I would not switch because of the HDMI issue. Not now as after all of this time, all of the major companies are likely no more than 6 to 9 months out from HDMI 1.3 solutions. In the big picture, that's not worth switching.
You're probably right.

Unfortunately :(

Thanks for the input.

Nobody has info on the Lex AV line I guess :confused:

Cedia is coming....I'm sure there'll be announcements. Personally, LPCM is the only thing that matters in my set up. It is huge for lossless sound and post processing. Room correction is important but there are many solutions for it that are likely better than an integrated processor solution.

I look at the LPCM update to tide me over on processors until the new wave of models hits...after the dormat war is decided. This is a relatively inexpensive update to bring the Halcro up to state of the art digital sound for the new format.

Again, Lexicon and perhaps a couple others are the only game in town to give this level of lossless sound performance.

I'm pretty pleased with Halcro's update and look forward to getting it.

Jeff,
Read and respond to your PM's please.

Art

You've got mail!

Michael,
Afraid I don't know the answer to that.
Nick,
The SSP100 does 1080p now, but only 1080p60 I believe (my HDTV doesn't do 1080p- my next purchase- so I can't verify). There isn't much 1080p24 material out there at the moment, so until there is it's not much of an issue.

"There isn't much 1080p24 material out there at the moment, so until there is it's not much of an issue."

Do you have HD-DVD or BR? It is all 1080p24.

Shawn

I have PS3. What displays can currently accept 1080p24, and what BR or HD-DVD output 1080p24?
Thanks.

I have PS3. What displays can currently accept 1080p24, and what BR or HD-DVD output 1080p24?
Thanks.


Not sure about flat panels, but some of the newer FP's (RS-1 and others) handle 1080p24. The Pioneer and Sony BR players output 1080p24, and I'm sure some of the others do as well. The PS3 also outputs 1080p24.

Jim

Michael,
Afraid I don't know the answer to that.

Hi Terry,

Next time you speak to Halcro, if you wouldn't mind, please ask them about this. Myself and I'm sure many others here would really appreciate it. :)

Thanks,

Dennis

"I have PS3. What displays can currently accept 1080p24, and what BR or HD-DVD output 1080p24?"

Along with just accepting 1080p24 they also need to display it at some multiple of 24hz to avoid judder. The other option is if the display can accept 48hz (Ruby for example) then if you have a video processor (Lumagens for example) that accepts 24hz it can then output 48hz to the display to avoid judder.

The RS1 accepts 1080p24 and displays it as a multiple of it. I have fed 1080p24 from the PS3 through my MC-12HD to the RS1. As far as other displays that accept 1080p24 I haven't looked to closely. The Panasonic projectors from the AE900 and on can I think as can the Pearl.

Shawn

Well, no word from Halcro on the upgrade situation. Its dishearting in a way as this is a rather expensive unit. I admit it sounds nice and has some nifty features but my Anthem D2 looks more like its going to be the mainstay as its rock solid, great scaler, fantastic service (so far) and has user upgradable firmware, LPCM support and wonderful sound. I have the D2 and the Halcro hooked up side by side with the Halcro MC50 and I have Bel Canto Ref. 1000's on the anthem and to be honest they are on the same playing field with the feature set going easily to the Anthem. I feel that Sonic Frontiers (Paradigm) has really focused on their home theater equipment and alot has to be said of the Anthem Statement series being a great performer because the D2's foundation is just the D1 which I thought was a great thing because the D1 was so wonderful. We can have the Burr Brown vs AKM debate and the Halcro is better than Anthem but when you line the pros and cons together the Anthem wins. If you need a pro and con list then something is wrong. I own both, I was debating which I would keep for and extended stay but for now it looks like Anthem. I want to be clear, the Halcro guys are super nice and very helpful but when it comes to information or deadlines there are issues. For me, the lack of an updated website, information, dealer issues makes me think that the product is just not important in the scheme of Minelab the parent company. These are just opinions and not meant to cause discomfort.

Two weeks more.

Well, no word from Halcro on the upgrade situation.

Upgrade? What upgrade? I think it's a myth, a rumor meant to torment us. :cool:

Definition of "upgrade"


1. A new or better version of some {hardware} or {software}. Often used in {marketroid}-speak to mean "{bug fix}". 2. The act of developing or installing a new version. (1995-03)

I am still as confused as a was before. Make sense?

The multi-million dollar question is whether the Halcro LPCM HDMI upgrade will be available before the Theta CB4 with LPCM HDMI is available for Theta luvers???? Only when one crosses the finish line will one really know.

I have a $1 that says it will. I will even give odds. Any takers?????

The multi-million dollar question is whether the Halcro LPCM HDMI upgrade will be available before the Theta CB4 with LPCM HDMI is available for Theta luvers???? Only when one crosses the finish line will one really know.

Steve,

We all know that you hang out in the Halcro thread, because secretly, deep down, you know you want one. Well there is one on Audiogon right now. you better move fast if you want to upgrade from that Theta. ;-)

Darrell

Well, I think the odds are pretty poor that Theta will beat Halcro at this point. Halcro is probably suffering through the same DVI/HDMI/HDCP debugging process that has tripped up many a company in the past. By my estimation, Theta has a fair bit of hardware design left to do. Not that I know that for sure---but if their HDMI hardware design was finished we'd be hearing about more specific release plans, right? But Theta will face that same debugging step themselves---there's no way around it.

But look, this is the bleeding edge we're talking about here. It will be awhile before the HDMI 1.3 product space is stable, and that means these first responders are going to stumble towards the finish line kind of haphazardly. If you can give it a year, there will be multiple options to choose from for sure.

And of course there's always Anthem and Lexicon :)

Gentlemen,

I took the initiative to email Halcro about our concerns of their perceptional lack of communication and being attentive to product inquiries and sharing information.

The Director of Sales is supposed to contact me via phone. Are you there any questions you'd like me to ask him?

Please keep the questions as technically simplistic as possible. I am not an extremely techie kind of guy. Just basic questions if you please.

Thanks,
Charles

Charles---this is fantastic. Terry earlier mentioned that the Halcro would not support 1080p24 output. Will you ask if it will be able to pass through that resolution (i.e., without processing)?

Michael,

I will ask him that question for sure.

I'll keep a running list of the questions you guys would like. The biggest item for me will be attempting to provide his exact response. I am going to suggest that he either spend some time on this Halcro thread or maybe be a guest on AVS. This way, all his responses can be addressed in his own words.

Charles,

Thanks for offerring to ask Halcro some questions while you have their attention. Here are mine.

1) What exactly is included in the upcoming Upgrade. At this point the feature set must be finalized.

2) When will the upgrades start?

3) How long should people expect to be without their unit?

Thanks,
Darrell

I have the SSP100 and a Sonos music distribution system. I am considering using a DAC that alos has it's own Preamp to improve the sound of the Sonos. When I connect the Digital Out of the Sonos to the Halcro, the Sonos sounds good, but not as good as my Denon Universal player.

My question is: Has anyone use the Optical Output of the Halcro to feed a Preamp?

I am thinking this may be cleaner than using a passthough like most people do when combining a 2CH and HT system. Any thoughts on how this would work?

Sonos (via Digital Output) to Halcro (via Optical Out) to DAC/Preamp to Amp.

This would allow me to use the DAC for all my two channel music.

Thanks,
Darrell

Darrell,

I'll add those questions to the list. Thank you for contributing.

It appears due to the schedule of the individual I am corresponding with, Monday appears to be the tenative evening we will speak. This will give us/me some time to be organized with our questions. IF the questions we have escalate, I may forward them to him so he can respond at a personal level. Again, I am keeping a list.

One of the questions I will ask him is "Is Steve B. going to be a convert to Halcro?" :)

Charles

Steve has his chance right now to upgrade. There is a used SSP100 on Audiogon right now. I don't know if the Halcro group is ready for a Zealot though. It would be an interesting twist though. :eek:

Steve has his chance right now to upgrade. There is a used SSP100 on Audiogon right now. I don't know if the Halcro group is ready for a Zealot though. It would be an interesting twist though. :eek:

That is a nice price on that piece. I assume that is pocket change to Steve? :p

I have a $1 that says it will. I will even give odds. Any takers?????

OK you pikers......... I raising the bet to $ 2.00 and will still give odds.

Anybody??????

I understand that there may be an added incentive to upgrade.

Forum members would be able to get their choice of adding the Theta logo or D2 added to the front of their faceplate. This rumor is for AVS forum members only.

Steve has his chance right now to upgrade. There is a used SSP100 on Audiogon right now. I don't know if the Halcro group is ready for a Zealot though. It would be an interesting twist though. :eek:

He wouldn't sell to me. Said I'd never be happy with the Halcro after having the CB3 and Six Shooter, that why did I think he was selling it???? :) :D :eek: :confused:

Wait.... hold on...... what is that sound? It is very soft and melodic.

Hold on.... just a moment.

Yes it it getting clearer now.

It sounds like music...... no wait it is a song.


I know this song.

It is and oldie but a goodie.

Yes it is familiar.

It is Carly Simon....... and she is singing .......

Anticipation ;) :)

Seems like most here know this one by heart. ;)

Sorry, I just could not resist.

Patience Grasshoppers.

Remember, "All good things come to he who waits." At least this works well for Theta owners. :) Theta.... truly a good thing.
"
I hope the same for you Halcro owners. Welcome to the "Anticipation Club".

I agree with Michael, HDMI/HDCP more than likely is slowing things up a bit. Digital can be a very trying medium to work in. Especially when the new standards are released.

Patience Grasshoppers.

Remember, "All good things come to he who waits." At least this works well for Theta owners. :) Theta.... truly a good thing.
"



Dealer mark-up on Theta . . . truly a good thing.

Who might be inspired to say such things? On a Halcro thread to boot.

Could it be VideoBill?

Nick :cool:

VideoBill? Whose that????

Charles---this is fantastic. Terry earlier mentioned that the Halcro would not support 1080p24 output. Will you ask if it will be able to pass through that resolution (i.e., without processing)?


Tell Charles forget it; He won't get an answer from the director of sales.

Here is the skinny:

As to 1080p/24, according to the Design engineers, the Halcro will not process 1080p/24. It is not a bandwidth issue, as the Halcro will pass 1080p/25 which has higher band width. Someone on the forum claimed that they fed the Halcro 1080p/24 and it put out 1080p/60. This can’t happen, the Halcro doesn’t reclock the video. I discovered this when I tried to scale 540p/50 to 1080i/60. Now it is possible that the source unit is looking for something in the HDMI handshake to allow it to output 1080p/24 that the Halcro doesn’t pass.

To test to see if the Halcro will pass 1080p/24, we need to have a source that puts out 1080p/24, a display that will display 1080p/24 and media that is recorded in 1080p/24. I have not been able to establish if any media has been produced in 1080p/24 other than some High-end games for the PS3, that have not yet been released.

Got it? The new software will not change that scenario.

As to the MPCM upgrade, it is exactly what it says, it allows the Halcro processors to take advantage of the ability of Blu-Ray and HDDVD players to transmit uncompressed High resolution multi channel audio over HDMI, and nothing more. Since the unit must be completely disassembled anyway, they are taking the opportunity to bring all units to current spec at NO additional cost to the end user.

The hardware and software are currently in Beta testing. When they feel its ready for customer updates everybody will find out.

Last thing Halco needs is griping about what a s@#%tty upgrade people got. Not that would ever happen.

Maybe I should raise my offer to $ 3.00

"I have not been able to establish if any media has been produced in 1080p/24 other than some High-end games for the PS3, that have not yet been released."

I think pretty much every BluRay movie out there is 1080p24. Same with HD-DVD.

The PS3 with v1.90 software can be set to force 1080p24 playback on BR. By forcing it it means it will output it even if the EDID says it is not a supported mode as many pieces of equipment will accept it even if not officially supported as the bandwidth is less then 1080i and 720p. I'm getting 1080p24 through the MC-12HD for example in the above setup.

Use the PS3 and plug a RS1 or something in as a display and one could test to see if 1080p24 can be passed through the Halcro.

Shawn

I have not been able to establish if any media has been produced in 1080p/24 other than some High-end games for the PS3, that have not yet been released.Go to store. Buy a Blu-Ray film. Poof!

Look, I won't take your bet because I agree with you that the Halcro will be out first. But while I don't expect the director of sales to necessarily have an answer to the question, I think it's reasonable for him to pass it along to the appropriate engineers. If they don't yet know the answer, they darn well ought to be finding out. It's not a fatal flaw if the Halcro doesn't process 1080p24, as long as it can pass it through.

Somebody want to give them to me? I will be more then happy to check.
The Sony Qualia 004 will not ecxept 1080p 24 Anyone have a RS1 they can lend me?

BTW, it looks like the 3-rd gen Toshiba HD-DVD players (http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/06/toshibas-hd-a3x-third-generation-hd-dvd-players-get-official/) will support 1080p24, and a firmware upgrade will be made available for 2-nd gen players to do the same. Bottom line: since Halcro is holding back its LPCM boards right now---and my guess is it's to continue mucking with the firmware to fix bugs---it might be a good idea to make sure 1080p24 passthrough is possible, too.

Hi,

Looks like I may be selling the Halcro SSP 100 and MC50. The SSP 100 unit was purchased from an installer and unopened when I recieved the unit and is registered in my name (Warranty transferable with letter I think.). The unit's IR sensor has never worked and will be fixed under warranty or when you elect to have the unit upgraded to LPCM. Its flawless and has all original materials and boxes. The MC50 I bought brand new just for the SSP 100 from a dealer in New York and is also registered in my name. They are all less than 6 months old and have never left the shelf they were put on, pictures are available. I will sell them seperately becuase I may already have a buyer for the MC50 but we will see what happens there. I am not using this as a classified but with the IR sensor issue what would be a fair price in your expert opinions? Again, they will fix it for free, and IR sensors are being replaced upon the upgrade to LPCM. I think the Halcro is a wonderful machine and concept, but I am not going to replace the Anthem D2 with the Halcro as originally planned. The hassel of not having a dealer near me (Orlando, Florida) and having to wait so long at this point has been an issue, especially for a 9K plus machine with a bum IR sensor. I really don't want to wait another month or three just to get a simple IR sensor fixed and I have yet to even get a strait answer where I am supposed to send my unit, some tell me to take it to the dealer (Don't have one near.) some say send it to USA HQ. The tech I spoke with at the service center in the US and the one in austrailia were wonderful but they reffered me to my area sales manages and no luck at all. The sales manager that finally did call said they would have a dealer near me in a few months, does that mean I wait? I know alot of you are more patient. Thanks for your time guys, this has been a great forum.

Hmm...an IR sensor and you'll trade in the whole piece? Why not just send it in for service? You'd have it back in no time. Moreover, did you try a different remote as the Halcro remote may've been defective & not the port....


Do the IR input ports on the rear work? I would imagine they would as they are wired differently and separate from the front IR (as well as RS-232). Moreover, there is nothing (short of Lexicon) to go to.. Maybe its just me but it is about sound. Cutting edge stuff typically has such quirks. All high end processor units have issues. That is part of it. Anthem has an 8000 post thread with problems on each software update and many complaining of a hard edge, Lexicon is solid but no 7.1 or 1080P, Theta, no HDMI until next year, MEridian, no HDMI solution as well.

Not to doubt you, but it sounds like there is more to this story. I mean if I bought a new uit with a bad IR port, I would've sent it in the same day I recieved it. I think you have had this unit for some time.

The unit is a week or two away from being the most cutting edge high end processor on the planet and a bad IR port is going to keep you from enjoying it?? I just don't get it.

Shawn,

I have some of the same issues as you (no local dealer), but I was able to send my unit for repair. It didn't go smoothly, but that is another story. I too was forced with the choice of getting repaired "now", or waiting for the upgrade. Fortunately I didn't wait. With all the bugs, lack of info, long wait on the upgrade, etc. I can't blame you for selling the unit (Especially if you have a D2 there - HDMI ready to go already).

I saw a SSP100 recently on Audiogon for ~$6,700. I don't know how much to deduct for the IR sensor issue. I also see a SSP80 for $4,900. I am a bit surprised that is still there. Maybe everyone knows about the Halcro issues.

Sorry, I can't offer a good price suggestion. Maybe ask $6,100?

Good Luck,
Darrell

Hmm...an IR sensor and you'll trade in the whole piece? Why not just send it in for service? You'd have it back in no time.

When I sent my unit, it was gone a month.



The unit is a week or two away from being the most cutting edge high end processor on the planet and a bad IR port is going to keep you from enjoying it?? I just don't get it.

They have been saying "1-2 weeks" for a couple months now. For Christmas we are going to have to get you a calandar. :rolleyes:


Now Shawn, you could send it in for service now. They still could have your unit when the upgrades come out. So you could ask them to do the upgrade since they already have it in-hand. You could get the very first upgrade. :D

It may be a week or a month...but as I said, there is almost nothing out there comparable. If I sold mine, I have no idea what I would replace it with. PCM sound just has not made to the high end processors. So, what is one to do? We know Theta and Meridian will be a long way off with a solution. Anthem....eh..., Lexicon, currently, has the best solution.

Next year at this time, this will be a moot conversation as there will be a lot of solutions. For now, Halcro seems to be the best solution. I am very, very pleased with the sound. And I came from Lexicon and Meridian processors.

This sounds a little odd as well.

Maybe it is just a dealer issue as my dealer was very fast to respond to a complaint my friend had with his SSP-100. Halcro sent another SSP-100 to replace the defective unit with a pre-paid shipping label for the return freight. I have not had any problems except a possible DC off-set in one of the XLR outs but for now I just use the RCA outs until the LPCM upgrade. I am not even sure if there is a DC-offset issue in mine but my amp experienced a problem that could have been directly linked to a failed capacitor. The tech who worked on my amp just suggested I should have the DC-offset checked in my Halcro just in case.

I am actually trying out a Onkyo 805 with the new HDMI 1.3 out of curiosity and to have while my Halcro is away for the upgrade (hopefully real, real soon) This f**king thing is giving me a headache and I am shocked at how poor it sounds. To be fair to the Onkyo it is probably on the top of the list for receivers. The Halcro has embarrassed nearly every high end pre I have had in my system for movies so this should be not that big of a shock. I thought it would be closer though as the Onkyo has the new Dolby TruHD and uncompressed LPCM. It has only been about 3 days but so far I cannot not listen to it for more than 30 minutes with music (SACD and DVD-A) or Dolby TruHD.

I guess it is true about what they say "You don't know what your missing until it's gone" I just didn't expect to miss it this much.

I am actually trying out a Onkyo 805 with the new HDMI 1.3 out of curiosity and to have while my Halcro is away for the upgrade (hopefully real, real soon) This f**king thing is giving me a headache and I am shocked at how poor it sounds.

It has only been about 3 days but so far I cannot not listen to it for more than 30 minutes with music (SACD and DVD-A) or Dolby TruHD.

Humor On:

I thought seperates and receivers all sounded the same?

Perhaps the Onkyo is still breaking in?? :D

Hi guys,

I want to thank everyone for their help in the issue. I would love to be a long time Halcro supporter but it seems to me they do have issues. I have had the D2 for over a year and before that an AVM 30 and they have both been stellar. You cannot beat sonic frontiers customer support, knowledge and great attitude as well as an updated website with firmware. The D2 and SSP-100 have been sitting side by side now and to be honest, while there are sonic differences, they both sound wonderful. I may be in the minority here but for my SACD's and DVD-A's I actually prefer the D2 and it wont even decode DSD with the AKM DACs. The HDMI features, scaler and heavy build are hard to beat. I am going to be out of town for the next nine days (I will still have online access) and will wait to see if Halcro does anything. This may sound like I am jumping the gun and a few folks may feel the same here but this reminds me of the issues with TAG McLeran equipment just before they decided to leave the audio business. I have emailed my "area manager" for Halcro because I do not want to bug the tech guys anymore than I already have. I have emailed him only three times in the last two months simply asking if a dealer has been established here and a brief outline of my issues, and I have yet to have a reply, I have double checked the email address with the tech support people and all is correct, no returned mail. I am going to use and example, I broke a tooth off my XLR input on the AVM 30, I sent the unit to Anthem, they had the unit back to me within 7 days, charged me $63.00 and they are in Canada. They called me a week later with a follow up to see how everything was working. When you pay top dollar for items that is what I expect, and that is not expecting to much. Face it, open up the integra, denon, yamaha, etc. and they all use the same DAC's, DSP's, parts, etc. While they may be implemented different they are none the less the same components. I am not going to argue those units sonic differences but they also do not cost upwards of 10K. For that kind of money a higher level of customer service is demanded and expected. We tend to shop for cars at dealerships who treated us great, inform us, and back up their products, regardless of price, as all Ford dealerships have the same cars. Again, the Halcro sounds wonderful, but when the customer is informed, updated, and the product literature is update (I.e. website) it just sounds that much sweeter.

...then you should sell it or buy new speakers. I owned an Anthem prior to my SSP100 and there is no comparison.

As I've previously stated, I was one of the very first SSP100 owners in the US. I knew I was taking a risk with a brand new high end product and was frustrated as well when my first two units were defective (microphone didn't work).

However, I got spectacular service from Halcro through my dealer. Halcro shipped me new replacement units BEFORE I had returned the defective units.

After the second problem, the Halcro SSP Project Manager (who lives in Ireland) and national sales manager flew to my house when he was in the States on business and spent an entire day with me not only setting up the third unit but also doing some other work on my system gratis. He agreed that the packaging was inadequate and felt that the microphone module had been damaged in shipping.

I'm looking forward to the upgrade and am thrilled that not only will my two year old unit get this additional functionaltiy but will also be thoroughly upgraded to the current build. I hope I don't have any new problems but IMO, the quality of the sound is worth any minor aggravation.

...then you should sell it or buy new speakers. I owned an Anthem prior to my SSP100 and there is no comparison.

.

May I suggest getting a pride/charm school check up for you too? I presume you owned Anthem D2 and compared it to Halcro SSP100 side by side? :rolleyes:

Cheers,
Kishore

Your TAG equipment comparison to halcro really p**** me off.
You sir are a y**** to compare Halcro to TAG.

When your D2 needs a upgrade in 2 years I would like to know if Anthem is going to completely rebuild your unit and bring it up to the most current specs.

BTW I own an AV192 too.

Humor On:

I thought seperates and receivers all sounded the same?

Perhaps the Onkyo is still breaking in?? :D

I honestly think something must be wrong with this Onkyo. I used to keep a Denon around to pop in when I was trying to find my ideal pre-pro and it has never been this dramatic.

Maybe I have just been spoiled that much by the Halcro?
I do recal swaping a ADA Cinema Rhapsody Mach III after about a month with the Halcro just to hear if it really was that much better. The ADA is a great bargain at about $1,500 used but the Halcro still sounded much more real and dynamic in all channels. The main difference is with the ADA, and all other pre-pro's I have owned in the past, is I can hear my speakers. With the Halcro my speakers disapear and I just listen to the music or movie. The Halcro really puts you in the action and that is the main reason I love it.

I guess there is actually a reason to spend this much on a pre-pro :cool:

Geez, guys, relax. The guy likes a different unit better, at least in some cases. Suck it up! We should all be so lucky to prefer the cheaper item. Perfectionist2, did you do your comparisons sighted or blind? And jbm007---guess what? Different people have different customer service experiences with the same company.

(And no, I'm not schmoozing him so I can buy his Halcro :) I'm not ready to buy yet!)

I didn't do formal comparisons but when my first two Halcros were being replaced, I reinstalled my Anthem with the same speakers (KEF 207 Reference) and same Halcro amps and could easily hear the difference. So no A to B, not blind, and not scientific. Simply my impression.

But the point that was made above about the speakers disappearing is very well stated. The Halcro makes my speakers disappear. It's hard to describe but the sound is extremely open and crystal clear.

For someone like me who is not an expert and who believes that audio accounts for the major part of the theater experience, this is the best I've heard to date.

End of discussion for me.

And that's great for you, P2. You were just being a bit harsh, that's all; I mean, he heard a difference too, you know---he just came to a different conclusion!

Don't misunderstand me, I am appreciative of positive reviews like yours and theblands and am moved by them to keep the Halcro on my short list...

MJ the reason you heard such a dramatic difference between the 2 is that you blew out your eardrums after built your subwoofer......ya basshead

Mike
I went off on the TAG comparison because one of the reasons TAG went out of business was; because of engineers who did not know how to make MONEY tried to make the best product they could and had the best forum you could want with the most open access to its president, and tried to make the customer feel wanted. Quess what; THEY went out of business; and people are still lambasting them. The AV192 is still as good as anything out there for a product that was introduced 2 years ago, and that includes the Halcro. Its not cutting edge but if some could find a unit for 3k it would be a steal. Every manufacturer has his issues; God forbid the Anthem should have any customer service issues, but to make statements like that about Halcro is irresponsible.

Well, at the start of Oct. 2006, Jeff bought his SSP100. He states that "he was assured" then that this LPCM via HDMI upgrade was coming. Since then, at this thread, we've had all sorts of reports that it was coming, coming, then coming, then not coming, then a definite date, then delay.

What's the latest??? Anything?

Steve see my prior post.

Several internal units have their upgrades, the new software is being tested. When they feel its ready for final release, it will be released. We are talking a couple of weeks; if all goes as expected. You can come to Chicago when and have a listen when its ready for prime time. BTW I don't remember the company issuing a definite date. Did I miss something?

Well, you're still being overblown about it, jbm007. The story of a bunch of great engineers who don't know how to run a business is practically a cliche it happens so often. TAG is just one of a million of them. The analogy with Halcro then sounds somewhat appropriate---for now. Let's both hope it doesn't prove true long term!BTW I don't remember the company issuing a definite date. Did I miss something?You mean like people like yourself giving regular progress reports and saying things like "couple of weeks"?

Well, at the start of Oct. 2006, Jeff bought his SSP100. He states that "he was assured" then that this LPCM via HDMI upgrade was coming.

I think Jeff got most of that from his dealer but I could be wrong about that. Should have gotten it in writing like I suggested... might have saved him the cost of the upgrade. ;)

Shawn

I have emailed him only three times in the last two months simply asking if a dealer has been established here and a brief outline of my issues, and I have yet to have a reply, I have double checked the email address with the tech support people and all is correct, no returned mail.

Shawn,

Please PM me and I can provide an email address AND a contact number so you can get your problem resolved with your Halcro issues. Also, much luck with your D2.

Charles

Guys,

Here are the questions we posed to Halcro. I added a few just to confirm specific items that were previously addressed such as cost, etc.

I sent these to my contact at Halcro on Tuesday morning, 8/7/07 and he responded today, Thursday, 8/9/07.

The answers are verbatim from Halcro. I hope this helps.

Charles

********************

1. Q: The cost of the upgrade?

A: $1,399.00

2. Q: What exactly is included in the upcoming upgrade?

A: The MPCM upgrade will give the SSP the ability to accept High Resolution Multi-Channel PCM over HDMI from Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players so equipped. Also, since the unit must be completely disassembled to install the upgrade, Halcro are taking the opportunity to bring all units up to current spec at no additional cost to the end user. Included in the upgrade will be the latest firmware which will, beyond allowing for MPCM: (1) improve 1080p HDMI connectivity, (2) correct a black level SW error, (3) enable video to remain on the display when the External 7.1 audio input is selected, and (4) integrate the MCU and Configuration files to simplify future updates.

3. Q: A suggested time frame when the upgrade will be available?

A: We are beta testing the upgrade now and plan to begin the upgrade process September 1, 2007.

4. Q: How long should people expect to be without their unit?

A: We anticipate a 2-3 day turnaround at the service facility. However, shipping times must be added which will be 2nd day service to the service center at Halcro’s expense and whatever time is required for return shipping which will depend on carrier, method of shipment, destination and arrangements made through the dealer.

5. Q: What process does a current Halcro owner need to follow to initiate the upgrade process?

A: The upgrade is purchased through Halcro dealers. The upgrade purchase will put your unit in the queue for service which will be performed on a first come first serve basis. It is not necessary or advisable to leave your processor with the dealer at the time of upgrade purchase. The dealer and/or customer will be notified when his unit is to be sent to the service center for upgrade. This is method is organized to minimize system down time.

6. Q: Someone on the AVS forum stated that the Halcro SSP would not support 1080p24 output. Will the SSP be able to pass through that 1080p24 resolution (i.e., without processing)?

A: The current upgrade is for multi channel audio only and has no effect on video. At this time we are researching the 1080p24 issue which must be separately addressed.

7. Q: Will HDMI 1.3 be a future endeavor for Halcro?

A: It is still too early to determine plans for HDMI 1.3 as further HDMI technical revisions are in the planning stages.

Mozvz,

Thanks for the update. This is helpful.

Some of us don't have a local dealer. I wonder how we go about ordering the upgrade. The place I bought my unit from isn't carrying Halcro anymore.

Darrell

Michael, looks like your 1080p24 question remains unanswered.

As I said before, when I have spoken directly to Halcro they have always given me a time frame of summer 2007 for this upgrade. If in fact they do start Sept. 1 (the new official date), they will be well within the time frame they originally stated going back to last year. So quit yer bitchin' until Sept. 2.

Great news! Good job Charles in getting some concrete info. My room renovation should be just about done by then. Fantastic!

The Halcro upgrade process in some ways reminds me of what us Theta CB owners have gone through. Sometimes, wait, wait, wait - and finally the upgrade comes!!!!

It can be difficult for companies likeTheta, Halcro, etc. Beta testing is necessary to ensure reasaonable reliability. Sometimes parts from independent vendors, especially chipsets, are not up to spec or snuff, causing further delays.

Since Theta has been in the upgrade business with the CB since 1997, they are a bit more tight lipped about deadlines for when the CB3's upcoming LPCM upgrade will be available. And if I recall correctly Theta decided to wait a bit so they could do HDMI 1.3 (regardless of our discussion that the earlier HDMI will work for LPCM multi-channel), so it now clearly appears Halcro is ahead of Theta on this curve. And of course Lexicon was first to march on this. But probably in another year, Theta will march ahead when they have HDMI 1.3 LPCM multi-channel ready for a CB3 upgrade (I bet the CB4 version along with it) (but maybe longer than a year, too, I wouldn't be surprised, but meanwhile my Six Shooter as an analog mult--channel preamp works sterling for me for HD DVD anyway).

Anyway, sounds like Halcro is learning and working hard to accomplish their goal which is upcoming. Might still be a few delays. You never know if further beta testing shows a problem or there 's a parts problem re availability or quality. We will see.

Mozvz,

Thanks for the update. This is helpful.

Some of us don't have a local dealer. I wonder how we go about ordering the upgrade. The place I bought my unit from isn't carrying Halcro anymore.

Darrell


Darrell,

I sent you a PM. I'm a Halcro dealer. Actually I sold Charles his unit. You can ask him how my service was. I think I can step in and be your "dealer" for this purpose and coordinate your upgrade. Anyway, just a thought.

And that's great for you, P2. You were just being a bit harsh, that's all; I mean, he heard a difference too, you know---he just came to a different conclusion!...

For someone like me who is not an expert and who believes that audio accounts for the major part of the theater experience, this is the best I've heard to date.

P2 also cleverly does not reveal he used AVM20 and not D2 as basis of comparison to Halcro. :rolleyes:

I do agree with P2 that pre-pros do offer sonic difference.

Cheers,
Kishore

Darrell,

I sent you a PM. I'm a Halcro dealer. Actually I sold Charles his unit. You can ask him how my service was. I think I can step in and be your "dealer" for this purpose and coordinate your upgrade. Anyway, just a thought.

I already gave him your name A., because you guys are damn good!!

7. Q: Will HDMI 1.3 be a future endeavor for Halcro?

A: It is still too early to determine plans for HDMI 1.3 as further HDMI technical revisions are in the planning stages.

"Oh Lord! Why do you mock me?" :)

Homer Simpson

Although we are not comparing "apples" here (the SSP-80 doesn't have the scaler) the SSP-80 does have HDMI and I was not able to get it to pass-through the 1080p24 from a Pio 94HD to the RS-1.

Just tried it with my new Sim2 HT5000 (of course the same result, I was just curious :) )

Does the 94HD have a mode where you can force 1080p24 output? Results might vary depending upon if the source can force 1080p24 vs. a source that just works off EDID.

The PS3 with v1.90 can force 1080p24.

Shawn

Bit of an update, I got a call from the director of sales for Halcro and a dealer is now just down the street from me. He reassured me via a phone message (I have not called him back yet) on the LPCM and my IR that all would be taken care of very soon. I could send it in for the IR issue now but I should just wait to get it all done. Well, I will let you know more when I know more. He said two weeks for the dealers to start taking the units or the upgrades. Makes me feel better, I just like communication. I hope they start to use their website more, perhaps a forum there and such.

MJ the reason you heard such a dramatic difference between the 2 is that you blew out your eardrums after built your subwoofer......ya basshead

WHAT, I CAN'T HEAR YOU, SPEAK UP :D

I have a bigger badder sub about a week or 2 from being finished. By the way....... that 4 point quake in Chatsworth the other day.......... sorry about that :eek:

MJ,

What sub are you getting? What do you have??

The question is more like what sub haven't I had.

I had a JL Fathom F113 which is one of the best retail subs I have ever owned. I picked up some TC Sounds TC-3000 15" drivers and tested one in a box I had made before. Driven by a Crown K2 the TC-3000 in a box which was too small still had much more impact for movies and specs out to reach just as low as the F113 in a proper enclosure.

I am in the process of builing that proper enclosure now. Hopefully I can get enough free time to finish it by next week. Then I will start on a second enclosure.

I actually built a DIY sub with a closeout driver that cost only $99 from Kove about 2 months ago and the sickness began. For movies driven by the K2 even that sub had everyone who listened to it drooling. That first sub was basically like the earlier THX subs on steroids. It started rolling off at about 25-30 hz but it really felt like bass shakers were installed in the seats as it hit so damn hard.

I was thinking about making a TC LMS-5400 http://www.tcsounds.com/lms5400.htm
With 2 18" passive radiators driven by a QSC-4050 should pretty much provide all the bass anyone would ever need.

I do use a Velodyne SMS-1 to eq each sub.

I am pretty much lost to the DIY sub crowd now as the performance I have experienced could not be matched for movies by any retail sub I have ever owned. Music performance should match or exceed the F113 once my sealed, heavily braced, 1 1/2" thick walled, 90 lbs (so far) enclosure is finally ready. Once the driver is installed I hope it does not weigh more than 150 lbs :eek:
By the way I have owned the Velodyne HGS-18, JL Audio Fathom, Earthquake Supernova MKV-15 and a few others I don't recall.

MJ 2 18's you f**king basshead............so when will mine be done?

Bland

Its Christamas in August.............
Report coming soon.

Is it soup yet????

Oh yea.............

MMMmmmmmmmmmmm............ Juicy Fruit !!!

Yo MJ did you return your Halcro for the upgrade yet..........oh wait it's not Sept. 1 yet!

Question - will any Halcro owner get the upgrade by the next April Fools? Was this thread started last April Fools??

(Just joshin' you guys. Sounds like the upgrade is coming - - - the question is exactly when?)

Question - will any Halcro owner get the upgrade by the next April Fools? Was this thread started last April Fools??

(Just joshin' you guys. Sounds like the upgrade is coming - - - the question is exactly when?)

I think so Steve. Just filled out a form last night.:)

I think so Steve. Just filled out a form last night.:)

So you filled out the form. When do you pay the $$? When do you drop off your Halcro for upgrade? How long do they say it'll take for the upgrade.

Congrats. Sounds like you're gettin' there!!!

So you filled out the form. When do you pay the $$? When do you drop off your Halcro for upgrade? How long do they say it'll take for the upgrade.

Congrats. Sounds like you're gettin' there!!!

This was to get in the queue. Halcro is doing it on a first come first serve bases. Not sure what the turn around is going to be like, still waiting on an answer there. I'm assuming once Halcro has compiled the list notices will be sent out in order. Again, an assumption here, payment will need to be made before the unit is shipped to the dealer.

Thanks, I am pretty excited about the upgrade. :)

Hoping that I'll getting it completed in the month of September.;)

Ah Juicy Fruit ………..

Sweeter and smother then SACD; more dynamic than DVD -Audio
Its only 5.1 on Blue ray; but I want more
We were one of the Beta sites that tested the new 7.1 LCPCM upgrade from Halcro.
Brutal in its level of detail, its the upgrade that causes a new level of want.
HD-DVD doesn't give it yet. Blue Ray is only 5.1 lossless; I want more/ give me more;I want it real bad.
Make sure your speakers are up to the task.
No 7.1 disk are out there yet; But Halcro is giving us a new reason to hope.

Run to your nearest dealer and get the upgrade.

Ah Juicy fruit……………….

Now that is some good buzz!!!!!

The piece is incredibly detailed with the lossy tracks. I really can't wait now!!

Ah Juicy Fruit ………..

Sweeter and smother then SACD; more dynamic than DVD -Audio
Its only 5.1 on Blue ray; but I want more
We were one of the Beta sites that tested the new 7.1 LCPCM upgrade from Halcro.
Brutal in its level of detail, its the upgrade that causes a new level of want.
HD-DVD doesn't give it yet. Blue Ray is only 5.1 lossless; I want more/ give me more;I want it real bad.
Make sure your speakers are up to the task.
No 7.1 disk are out there yet; But Halcro is giving us a new reason to hope.

Run to your nearest dealer and get the upgrade.

Ah Juicy fruit……………….

You lucky lucky man.:D

Got my paperwork in and am waiting anxiously.

Speakers, I'm in good shape there. (Full Range)

HD DVD has lossless PCM output. Players convert the TrueHD tracks to PCM over HDMI. So we're good there as well.

Just waiting for the fun to start.:D

HD DVD has it; but the firmware has to be enabled the lossless output over HDMI.

HD DVD has it; but the firmware has to be enabled the lossless output over HDMI.

Your are correct, I believe that was in firmware update 1.2 with the first gen players. All gen 2 players came off the line with the ability to do 5.1 PCM over HDMI.

BTW: Equipment Used

Halcro 100
ATC 20-2 's self powered; mains and surrounds
ATC C6 sub woofer
ATC C5 center channel
Qualia 004
PS 3
Toshiba A20
Monoprice HDMI cables
Dan Francis ears and eyeballs.............

Sweeter and smother then SACD; more dynamic than DVD -AudioI know you're excited, but you're letting your imagination run away. Movie soundtracks top off at 48kHz/24-bit resolution, which is less smoother and less dynamic than SACD and DVD-A (which is usually 96/24, sometimes 192/24). Make sure your speakers are up to the task.Again, I know you're excited, but you're making it sound asthough some new ground is being broken here. It's just PCM, that too at half the sampling rate of typical DVD-A titles. If your current speakers are capable of resolving DVD-A or SACD content, then movie soundtracks on HD DVD and Blu-ray will be easy by comparison. No 7.1 disk are out there yetThere are a few Blu-ray titles that have 6.1-channel soundtracks delivered on a discrete 7.1-channel carrier (the surround-back information is copied to both rear channels). Try 'The Descent' or 'Crank' and you should see "3/4.1" displayed as the input signal. Run to your nearest dealer and get the upgrade.Total agreement there. Not just to get the new functionality but, just as important, to encourage Halcro to keep more upgrades coming.

Enjoy,
Sanjay

Well after listening to standard audio output for so long; I feel my comparsions still apply.

Yea and there are plenty of SACD and DVD audio mixes of old fart music that don't come close to 96/24 output SACD provides. Trust me; I love my Aerosmith disc, but I am sure the dynamics on "Casino Royal" are much better than my SACD Aerosmith disc.

To me this is what we have all been waiting for. This brings us closer to the ultimate AV experience. If your a audio stereophile this is a yawner. AV world has been waiting for this for a long long time.
I will check out those disk and see what the output is.

To me this is what we have all been waiting for. This brings us closer to the ultimate AV experience. If your a audio stereophile this is a yawner. AV world has been waiting for this for a long long time.
I will check out those disk and see what the output is.

Agreed this is an upgrade that was been way over do in AV. Well actually this is a step back as we were using PCM back in the Lasedisc days.:)

As a stereophile it is a bit of a yawner as my Japanese press and 200 gram vinyl out does the digital formats to this day.:)

Upgrades have started..:) Sweeeeeeeeet!!!! Got an email from the friendly folks at Halcro to let me know.

Yo MJ did you return your Halcro for the upgrade yet..........oh wait it's not Sept. 1 yet!

I did fill out the form yesterday so I am in the Q, RU? Oh wait, I forgot I am going to beta test for you so you can get the dish on any bugs, I don't know how you can wait.

Ah Juicy Fruit ………..

Sweeter and smother then SACD; more dynamic than DVD -Audio
Its only 5.1 on Blue ray; but I want more
We were one of the Beta sites that tested the new 7.1 LCPCM upgrade from Halcro.
Brutal in its level of detail, its the upgrade that causes a new level of want.
HD-DVD doesn't give it yet. Blue Ray is only 5.1 lossless; I want more/ give me more;I want it real bad.
Make sure your speakers are up to the task.
No 7.1 disk are out there yet; But Halcro is giving us a new reason to hope.

Run to your nearest dealer and get the upgrade.

Ah Juicy fruit……………….

Thanks for the juicy info!

Are you able to apply PLIIx to the LPCM so we can all use our 7.1 systems or are we relegated to 5.1 when listening to TruHD and DTS-HD decoded through the players?

Agreed this is an upgrade that was been way over do in AV. Well actually this is a step back as we were using PCM back in the Lasedisc days.:)

Even if the Halcro had HDMI 1.3 and did the DTS-HD and TruHD decoding in the SSP it would not matter as it would need to convert the signal to PCM anyway. Either it is done in the player or processor but the signal needs to be converted to PCM to apply distance compensation and the crossover. It is just a higher level of PCM and you will notice an improvement.

If anyone remembers DTS laserdiscs they were full bit rate DTS at 1.5mbps and they sounded much better that the 448kbps Dolby Digital DVD counterparts. DTS HD has a the potential of 6mbps and TruHD 3mbps which hopefully the studios will take full advantage of.

Either way all of these formats will be converted to PCM at some point so PCM should not be considered a step back.

Even if the Halcro had HDMI 1.3 and did the DTS-HD and TruHD decoding in the SSP it would not matter as it would need to convert the signal to PCM anyway. Either it is done in the player or processor but the signal needs to be converted to PCM to apply distance compensation and the crossover. It is just a higher level of PCM and you will notice an improvement.

If anyone remembers DTS laserdiscs they were full bit rate DTS at 1.5mbps and they sounded much better that the 448kbps Dolby Digital DVD counterparts. DTS HD has a the potential of 6mbps and TruHD 3mbps which hopefully the studios will take full advantage of.

Either way all of these formats will be converted to PCM at some point so PCM should not be considered a step back.


Completely agree with you MJ. My comment was more tongue and cheek.:)

What I was implying is that we actually had better audio back in the Laserdisc days then the DD and DTS offerings during DVD. Sure they were not multichannel but the sound quality was better on the individual tracks.

This trend in the movie industry to use PCM and lossless codecs is very promising. I hope the recording industry is paying attention. The migration to the use of mp3 has been disheartening for me. I love music and want to hear it in the best quality I can, and that is most definitely not MP3! Hell I'm still spinning vinyl because I have not heard a digital media yet that gets me there. DVD-A and SACD were going in the right direction but we all know what happened there.:(

I have no doubt that the PCM upgrade is going to sound fantastic. Sure, there's going to be a few bugs to start. But that is such a minor trade off for the ability to play lossless audio with our movies. And I'm sure Halcro will address any issues that do arise when the units are out in the wild.

Waiting anxiously for the send request from Halcro.:)

"Even if the Halcro had HDMI 1.3 and did the DTS-HD and TruHD decoding in the SSP it would not matter as it would need to convert the signal to PCM anyway. Either it is done in the player or processor but the signal needs to be converted to PCM to apply distance compensation and the crossover."

It isn't really 'converting' to PCM it is decoding back to PCM. In the studio the source is PCM. It is then compressed using DTS-HD or Dolby THD to reduce bandwidth/storage requirements. On playback it gets decoded back to PCM in the player. Both DTS-HD and Dolby THD are lossless compressions formats so the PCM you get out of them is exactly what went in in the studio.

Shawn

There is one disappoint with the upgrade though; hate to break it to you guys.

With some movies you just sit there in utter fascination at the level of detail, impact, acoustics and effects. The problem is; movies I thought would sound great are overwhelmed by the frontal sound stage presented. Some movies just lack depth in their presentation mix.
All this is now presented in gleaming detail. Movies like "Casino Royal" , "Bourne Identity"
has incredible sound mixes. "Pirates of the Carrabean" had flat sound stages with much of the information crammed into the frontal sound stage.
The Halcro has had 3-4 weeks of continuous beta testing; it had several firmware upgrades already and its solid now. Part of the issues was dessiminating what might be a bug vs. a sound mix, or track level. It soup all right. Now we get to turn are complaining back at the studios to give us the REAL thing.

BTW I may be able to have some forum members over for a demo this weekend. Send me a PM if you like to stop by. I live in the western suburbs of Chicago.

"With some movies you just sit there in utter fascination at the level of detail, impact, acoustics and effects. The problem is; movies I thought would sound great are overwhelmed by the frontal sound stage presented. Some movies just lack depth in their presentation mix."

'Tis why you need Logic 7,the version in the MC-12HD or v5 on a MC-12, it will steer surround material out of the L/R channels so you get more surround activity on mixes that are frontal heavy. It also works great on things like the Living Stereo 3 channel mixes. It also steers out a center channel from the L/R for things that image there in the first place.

Shawn

"With some movies you just sit there in utter fascination at the level of detail, impact, acoustics and effects. The problem is; movies I thought would sound great are overwhelmed by the frontal sound stage presented. Some movies just lack depth in their presentation mix."

'Tis why you need Logic 7,the version in the MC-12HD or v5 on a MC-12, it will steer surround material out of the L/R channels so you get more surround activity on mixes that are frontal heavy. It also works great on things like the Living Stereo 3 channel mixes. It also steers out a center channel from the L/R for things that image there in the first place.

Shawn

Wouldn't be nice if the studios got it right in the mix down so a person could save spending extra money for a pseudo remix that a MC-12 would bring to the table. I checked out many HD-DVDs and Blue Ray disc; 70% of the dvds got it right most of the time. There is no excuse for such crappy mix downs; but if you got the itch and it is burning a hole in your pocket , be my guest. Its your money.
Pretty soon we will see vendors offering re-framing software for the
video output the studios are giving us.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=898666

BTW Lexicon does not do LCPCM ......................pass it on.

"BTW Lexicon does not do LCPCM ......................pass it on."

They have done it for more then a year.... pass it on....

Shawn

Well after listening to standard audio output for so long; I feel my comparsions still apply.Agreed. Compared to standard lossy audio you've been listening to, lossless will sound better.

But compared to SACD & DVD-A, which you mentioned originally, movie soundtracks are a step down in resolution. Yea and there are plenty of SACD and DVD audio mixes of old fart music that don't come close to 96/24 output SACD provides. Trust me; I love my Aerosmith disc, but I am sure the dynamics on "Casino Royal" are much better than my SACD Aerosmith disc.Agreed again. Compared to music that was recorded decades ago, a movie soundtrack from last year will sound better.

But if you really want to experience just how much resolution the Halcro is capable of, then a modern multi-channel recording, like 'Chris Botti Live' on Blu-ray (5.1 channels of 96/24 PCM), will demonstrate it way better than 'Casino Royale' (48/16 PCM), which is little better than CD quality. Lexicon does not do LCPCMI don't think they even know what "LCPCM" is.

Sanjay

sfogg

Your right.

LPCM ............ pass it on.

Does anyone know if I were to order an SSP80 new from a dealer at this point in time if it would come from the factory with the "upgrade" already installed?

Thanks.

Yes. Halcro will be clarifing the order process with an announcement @ Cedia.
Let me know if your interested in one.

Yes MJ I can wait as I dread the thought of being without it for 2 days shipping to the dealer; 2 days to Vegas; 2 days to upgrade and 2 days to ship it directly back to me and throw in an extra day for good measure hummmmmm that's 9 days without. However because you are such a good friend MJ I appreciate your offer of letting me use your upgraded SSP100 until mine is done. What a guy!

What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas......

Yes. Halcro will be clarifing the order process with an announcement @ Cedia.
Let me know if your interested in one.

Are you a dealer for Halcro?

Yes MJ I can wait as I dread the thought of being without it for 2 days shipping to the dealer; 2 days to Vegas; 2 days to upgrade and 2 days to ship it directly back to me and throw in an extra day for good measure hummmmmm that's 9 days without. However because you are such a good friend MJ I appreciate your offer of letting me use your upgraded SSP100 until mine is done. What a guy!

Buddy, your gonna have to grow a set of DD's and a sweet V to go with those DSL's if you want that kind of service:D

I know your gonna offer to which is the scary part:eek:

To clarify my post:::::

sfogg

Your right.

LPCM ............ pass it on.


Lexicon 12-HD does Logic 7
LPCM is not and cannot be passed to the Lexicon 12-HD.

Logic 7 works with analog, optical, hdmi audio tracks and it algoritims create a pseudo 7.1 sound field. This is response to sfogg who indictated that the Lexicon did accept LPCM. Logic 7 is very good at what it does but is a substitute for lossless PCM, not lossless PCM over HDMI which is being discussed here.. Just wanted to set the record straight.

To clarify my post:::::
Lexicon 12-HD does Logic 7
LPCM is not and cannot be passed to the Lexicon 12-HD.

Logic 7 works with analog, optical, hdmi audio tracks and it algoritims create a pseudo 7.1 sound field. This is response to sfogg who indictated that the Lexicon did accept LPCM. Logic 7 is very good at what it does but is a substitute for lossless PCM, not lossless PCM over HDMI which is being discussed here.. Just wanted to set the record straight.

You are dead wrong.

Like I said the Lexicon MC-12HD had done LPCM over HDMI for over a year.

On top of that it can run Logic 7 to deal with your 'disappointment' mentioned above. Along with Lexicon's Room EQ, bass management...etc..etc..etc.

You can keep denying this but you will keep being wrong about this.

Shawn

MC-12HD status display while playing DSOTM from an Oppo player using an HDMI connection....

http://forums.smr-forums.com:8080/upload/DSCN3264.JPG

See the Audio In, Audio Format and channels entry.......

Shawn

LPCM is not and cannot be passed to the Lexicon 12-HD.


You're wrong. MC-12HD accepts multichannel linear PCM over HDMI. BTW, the L in LPCM stands for linear not lossless since DD+ and other lossy formats are decoded to LPCM by hi-def players and passed over HDMI as well.

It's amazing to me that Lexicon's been doing so flawlessly for over a year, and no one's really noticed that fact, concentrating instead on chasing vaporware hocked by other manufacturers or living in denial of the usefulness of HDMI.

--Andre

Andrew and Shawn

You are both right. I owe Shawn an apology. In discusssions with 4 Lexicon dealers and a entry level tech at Lexicon over the last 2 weeks; I was informed that the Lexicon 12 would not pass LPCM. After a lengthly discussion with Greg the senior tech at Lexicon things have been cleared up as far as I am concerned. The unit will accept 5.1 lossless just as Shawn indicted. It will not accept 7.1 LPCM which is inmaterial at this point becuse there is nothing out there. Greg indicted that at some point and time they may support LCPCM 7.1 , but its not on the horizon. I indicated to Greg that their own website does not have anything noted regarding LCPM and that the tech people and dealers are indicating the 12-HD does not pass LCPM. My statements were made based on errors information. Shawn you were right.
I think lexicon needs to clarify what the unit will do. Its pretty sad when four dealers, and Lexicons own tech people here don't know what their products will do and not do.

It will not accept 7.1 LPCM which is inmaterial at this point becuse there is nothing out there.

No there is not any 7.1 but there is 6.1 LPCM stuff, X-Men 3, so you do need greater than 5.1 LPCM capability. I believe the soon to be released Samsung P2400 will have a DTS-Master audio or whatever it's called decoder to decode and stream a lossless 6.1 track to the Halcro.

As long as the user had sophisticated processing such as Logic 7 or DPLIIx with a processor/receiver able to apply to 5.1 LPCM, I do not see a necessary upgrade need for greater than 5.1 LPCM capability at this time--at least as a reason to change units or spend additional dollars for an upgrade only addressing this capability. We are only talking about the rear surrounds, and both of these are quite good in deriving stereo rear information from 5.1 sources.

Regards,
Will

As long as the user had sophisticated processing such as Logic 7 or DPLIIx with a processor/receiver able to apply to 5.1 LPCM, I do not see a necessary upgrade need for greater than 5.1 LPCM capability at this time--at least as a reason to change units or spend additional dollars for an upgrade only addressing this capability. We are only talking about the rear surrounds, and both of these are quite good in deriving stereo rear information from 5.1 sources.

Regards,
Will

Dolby Prologic IIx is good but discrete channels sound better. DTS 6.1 discrete sound tracks sound a lot better than using Prologic II on my system. The sound track from "Disturbia" HD-DVD was particuliarly good.

Dolby Prologic IIx is good but discrete channels sound better. DTS 6.1 discrete sound tracks sound a lot better than using Prologic II on my system. The sound track from "Disturbia" HD-DVD was particuliarly good.


The Disturbia HD DVD Dolby Digital Plus soundtracking, using multi-channel analog output via my Theta Six Shooter, was exceptional. I could almost fee that one dude wanting to have s-x with the neighbor girl. HA!

I'd like to hear about the amps and speakers you guys plan to run with your Halcros? Just curious and wondering who's doing 5.1 or 7.1 and using what? How about the Halcro amps? Are many planning to run those?

My setup is a 5.1 configuration.

AMP is a Theta Dreadnaught II 5X225.

Speakers: L&R Oskar Kithara's
C Meadowlark Swan
Surrounds Meadowlark OWL's

Haven't considered using the Halcro amps. I've listened to several Class D amps and just find that sonically they are not quite there yet.

I'm a fan of Class AB amps and I can't see that changing. My Dreadnaught sounds fanatastic.

I just returned from CEDIA. The Lexicon MC-12HD will soon, via software upgrade, support 1080p via HDMI.

It has, from its inception, supported 5.1 LPCM over HDMI. If it is hooked up to a Blu-ray player or HD-DVD player that decodes Dolby Tru-HD or DTS Master Audio, it will pass the lossless signal via HDMI, albeit restricted to 5.1. Since there is no 7.1 discretely lossless material on the horizon, it is an insignificant point. Most of the new players that are being released--such as from Denon, Marantz, Sony, Panasonic and others--do the decoding in the player.

The great benefit to having Logic 7 (or Dolby PLIIX for that matter), is that you can overlay the mode over your hi-def signal, and still get 7.1. True, two of the channels will be matrixed, but they are surround channels in any event.

While I love my Halcro amps, I could not be convinced to switch, since the feature set of the Lexicon still exceeds the Halcro. It already does 5.1 LPCM over HDMI, will pass 1080p, has two additional HDMI inputs, and has room correction EQ abilities that the Halcro still lacks. If someone likes the sound quality of the Halcro above the Lexicon, that's obviously a matter of personal preference. The objective aspects of the feature set are what they are.

If someone wants to buy a preamp that will do everything--decode, pass 1.3, everything else . . . the only game in town is the new Denon Preamp.

The Lexicon will be as relevant as any processor in the market for the foreseeable future. From a feature perspective, the Lexicon leads the pack, except for the new Denon.

Thanks,

Nick :cool:

I just returned from CEDIA. The Lexicon MC-12HD will soon, via software upgrade, support 1080p via HDMI.How could that be possible Nick when a few pages back DocDVD declared "I have been by Lexicon directly that it is officially closed as the focus is on the new model" and thebland said "THe Lexicon is closed....I think that was confirmed by the Lex rep in the Lex forum". Lexicon would never have told Josh that the MC-12HD was a closed box while they were working on an upgrade for that very same processor. And since Jeff was an active member of the Lex forum, he knows that no Lex rep ever posted anything of the sort (indeed no such post exists). Is it really necessary to make stuff up about other processors in order to feel secure about your own purchase?

Sanjay

I would have to go through the Lex forum but I think you took me out of context. HDMI 1.3 was not to be a future upgrade. Other than passing 1080P (more likely fixing a software omission or just a bug fix rather than a bonafide 'upgrade'). I'm not sure what Lex is adding.

I am a fan of Lexicon. They have always been cutting edge and have always released excellent products.

I am also a fan of my Halcro as well.

"Other than passing 1080P (more likely fixing a software omission or just a bug fix rather than a bonafide 'upgrade'). "

How is adding 1080p support not considered an upgrade?

FWIW, I have been running 1080p24 through my MC-12HD from a PS3 for several months now, works great.

Shawn

I'd like to hear about the amps and speakers you guys plan to run with your Halcros? Just curious and wondering who's doing 5.1 or 7.1 and using what? How about the Halcro amps? Are many planning to run those?

Bulldogger,

My system is pretty simple.

5.1 System

Halcro SSP80
Proceed AVP2 + 6
Dali Helicon 400's
Dali Hellicon 300's
Dali Hellicon C200
JL F113

Gemstone Blue Diamond 7 channel made in Canada - Re badged high end company Class A/B 200 @8 ohms 400@ 4 ohms

A nicely balanced system for music and HT. The Gemstone is a very smooth and neutral amp. Works extremely well at lower volumes and drives the 4 ohm Dali's with ease at higher levels.

http://www.***************.com/htsthreads/tech-review.php?rev=59

I've never auditioned the Halcro amps. It's something to consider in the near future.

I like Lexicon too!! :)

"How is adding 1080p support not considered an upgrade?


Shawn

The 1080P 'upgrade' really doesn't provide any functionality per se (there is no signal processing or such). If anything it addresses an omission that was likely a problem for many Lexicon HD owners trying to pass their HDMI audio AND 1080P video through their processor on the way to their display. Before this fix, it couldn't be done. Anyone who owned a 1080P display and the Lexicon HD saw this as a real problem that needed fixing.....hence a bug fix or making right an omission as I described. I imagine they didn't charge for such a fix (but if they called it an upgrade, they may have charged for it).

Being able to 'pass' 1080P on an HDMI device really isn't an upgrade of anything. I think anyone who owns an HDMI device would expect 1080P to pass through it just like any other resolution..... particularly on a $15K device.

I don't want to argue about Lexicon...again, it is a nice piece with solid engineering behind it.

Jeff,

You changed/edited you post before I could finish typing this, but I'll reply to your original comments anyway. I'm sorry you took my comments as such a "sharp response", but in this case I think it was deserved. I understand if you disagree.

Josh made a claim about the MC-12HD being closed to 1080p/24 and 7.1 PCM. You echoed his remark a few posts later; no mention of HDMI 1.3, just of 1080p/24 (though in reference to your Qualia). So I didn't quote you out of context.

No Lexicon rep would ever have declared any currently being sold model as "closed", because: a) it's simply bad for business to say something that foolish, and b) it wasn't true. And that's where I was coming from. Nothing more complicated than that.

Sanjay

No problem Sanjay... My remark about being out of context was my contention that I got the closed box info from the Lex rep who gave an interview on the Lex forum last year. I don't recall the interview too clearly but I do recall talk of 1.3 not being a possibility nor 7.1. Also, my Qualia can't accept 1080P24 .

Best,

Jeff

Jeff,

"The 1080P 'upgrade' really doesn't provide any functionality per se (there is no signal processing or such). ....Before this fix, it couldn't be done. "

So the upgrade doesn't provide any functionality per se... yet after the upgrade people will be able to accept 1080p into the Lexicon that "couldn't be done" before?

Again... how isn't that an upgrade that adds additional functionality that it didn't have before????

".....hence a bug fix or making right an omission as I described."

From day one Lexicon has said the MC-12HD supports 480i/p, 720p and 1080i. Adding 1080p is not any sort of 'bug fix' as it was never claimed to support 1080p in the first place.

Lexicon is adding a new feature that it didn't have before, they are upgrading it.

"Being able to 'pass' 1080P on an HDMI device really isn't an upgrade of anything."

So when your Qualia gained the ability to accept 1080p (on a 1080p device) that wasn't an upgrade?

"I think anyone who owns an HDMI device would expect 1080P to pass through it just like any other resolution..... particularly on a $15K device."

Same could be said about a $30k 1080p projector that couldn't accept 1080p... until it was upgraded.

Of course we all know how well it works out when one just 'expects' features on a product. ;)

Shawn

I can tell you all, that it was a nice surprise when I upgraded to a MC-12HD it passed 1080/24P to my JVC RS-1. Plus....enjoying multi channel PCM over HDMI and Room Correction. :)

RayJr

My setup is a 5.1 configuration.

AMP is a Theta Dreadnaught II 5X225.

Speakers: L&R Oskar Kithara's
C Meadowlark Swan
Surrounds Meadowlark OWL's

Haven't considered using the Halcro amps. I've listened to several Class D amps and just find that sonically they are not quite there yet.

I'm a fan of Class AB amps and I can't see that changing. My Dreadnaught sounds fanatastic.

I have tried to like Class D amps as well but have not heard anything that excites me yet. I have not heard the Halcro stuff.

Bulldogger,

My system is pretty simple.

5.1 System

Halcro SSP80
Proceed AVP2 + 6
Dali Helicon 400's
Dali Hellicon 300's
Dali Hellicon C200
JL F113

Gemstone Blue Diamond 7 channel made in Canada - Re badged high end company Class A/B 200 @8 ohms 400@ 4 ohms

A nicely balanced system for music and HT. The Gemstone is a very smooth and neutral amp. Works extremely well at lower volumes and drives the 4 ohm Dali's with ease at higher levels.

http://www.***************.com/htsthreads/tech-review.php?rev=59

I've never auditioned the Halcro amps. It's something to consider in the near future.

I like Lexicon too!! :)

How does the Halcro sound compare to the Proceed piece?

How does the Halcro sound compare to the Proceed piece?

Hey Bulldogger,

Sorry for delay in responding to your question. Busy Sunday.....

The Halcro for HT has more definition, separation and clarity. NOT the dreaded digital sound, but it just has more presence about it. A very dynamic piece.

If I never heard the Halcro, the Proceed would probably be fine as it's very, very good for HT. However, after hearing and owning the Halcro for HT, I'd take the SSP80/100 in a heartbeat.

Music. The Halcro is very, very good, but the AVP2 + 6 has a special quality about it that makes it a classic piece of audio gear IMHO. The Halcro is a bit thin at times compared to the Proceed, but it's NOT a night and day difference. The Halcro is probably 90%-95% of what the Proceed is for music with the equipment I own. Someone else may have a different experience.

Also, I do not have the latest HDMI looseless upgrade on the Halcro, so what the effect of that additional board would have is unknown comparing the two if I owned a Blue Ray/HD player, which I do not. I would think the looseless upgrade would make the Halcro even better. However, for high def I think you could use the + 6 analog connections to connect via the Proceed for audio. I have no idea what the difference would be.

I hope this provides a bit of an insight to your question.

Charles

I am always amazed at the ability of processors to detect whether they're processing movies or music, and adjust their sound to be better or worse for one or the other. One might naively think that sound is sound, and that qualities like "clarity" or sounding "thin" that were inherent in the processor would manifest themselves on every output, but obviously such is not the case. Clearly, non-audiophile-approved processors know their place and degrade their sound the moment they realize they're playing music. How do they do that, I wonder?

Cheers,
Philip Brandes

I have tried to like Class D amps as well but have not heard anything that excites me yet. I have not heard the Halcro stuff.

You've got me there, I haven't listened to the Halcro's either. Like yourself I just haven't heard anything from the Class D's I've listened to that made me want to open up my wallet.:D

That being said, my Halcro SSP80 is a great Theater Pocessor. Very open and detailed. Matched up with the Dreadnaught it gives an impressive presentation with movies tracks.

Phillip,

The new prepros are built from elvish magic dust which allows the prepro to know weather it is a DTS movie or DTS music. ;)

Or.... It could be that people utilize different types of inputs which indeed do provide differing results.

On my Halcro for example, I can utilize HDMI, Analog input, or an Analog Bypass. These all provide different results. Maybe this is why some people think the unit is better for music than for movies. Maybe they are using the best sounding input for movies, and a different type of input for music.

Or... Maybe it is harder to hear the "thin" sound on a movie soundtrack.

You've brought up a good point though. Using the same inputs and format, the "rating" should come out the same for both music and movies.

Darrell


I am always amazed at the ability of processors to detect whether they're processing movies or music, and adjust their sound to be better or worse for one or the other. One might naively think that sound is sound, and that qualities like "clarity" or sounding "thin" that were inherent in the processor would manifest themselves on every output, but obviously such is not the case. Clearly, non-audiophile-approved processors know their place and degrade their sound the moment they realize they're playing music. How do they do that, I wonder?

Cheers,
Philip Brandes

I am always amazed at the ability of processors to detect whether they're processing movies or music, and adjust their sound to be better or worse for one or the other. One might naively think that sound is sound, and that qualities like "clarity" or sounding "thin" that were inherent in the processor would manifest themselves on every output, but obviously such is not the case. Clearly, non-audiophile-approved processors know their place and degrade their sound the moment they realize they're playing music. How do they do that, I wonder?

Cheers,
Philip Brandes

Philip, why are you asking such silly questions? Everyone knows that some processors have received musical training under the tutelage of people like Leonard Bernstein or George Szell (the newer processors missed the live lectures), while other processors just wasted their summers watching movies, probably matinees at that.

It's all a matter of upbringing. You know, you can choose your friends, but your family is a different story.

Nick :cool:

I am always amazed at the ability of processors to detect whether they're processing movies or music, and adjust their sound to be better or worse for one or the other. One might naively think that sound is sound, and that qualities like "clarity" or sounding "thin" that were inherent in the processor would manifest themselves on every output, but obviously such is not the case. Clearly, non-audiophile-approved processors know their place and degrade their sound the moment they realize they're playing music. How do they do that, I wonder?

Cheers,
Philip Brandes

Allergies and ear wax cloud up the ears for non-audiophile listeners?
Take out the ear wax and stick it under the surround processor for some added isolation and it won't sound so thin anymore~~~

Hey Bulldogger,

Sorry for delay in responding to your question. Busy Sunday.....

The Halcro for HT has more definition, separation and clarity. NOT the dreaded digital sound, but it just has more presence about it. A very dynamic piece.

If I never heard the Halcro, the Proceed would probably be fine as it's very, very good for HT. However, after hearing and owning the Halcro for HT, I'd take the SSP80/100 in a heartbeat.

Music. The Halcro is very, very good, but the AVP2 + 6 has a special quality about it that makes it a classic piece of audio gear IMHO. The Halcro is a bit thin at times compared to the Proceed, but it's NOT a night and day difference. The Halcro is probably 90%-95% of what the Proceed is for music with the equipment I own. Someone else may have a different experience.


Thanks. In the past I have asked two pre-pro designers about this. I was told that a pre-pro can be "voiced" for extremely razor sharp sonics or more so for music. I was never quite sure about what the difference for music was. However you are not the first to notice this. It has been 7 years since I first had that discussion. Are you using them via analog bypass for music? That would certainly be an explaination. I have zero experience with the Halcro but did note that the Absolute Sound review was critical of the analog bypass. How do the two bypasses compare? That question is kind of redundant because I am almost certain that's what you are comparing for music?

Matched up with the Dreadnaught it gives an impressive presentation with movies tracks.

I'm running Mcintosh amps in my theater. Have really been thinking about the Dreadnaught for the rear channels and getting rid of my stereo amps, too many amps. My wife really y likes the look of the Mcintosh stuff though and really "frowns up" if I talk about changing them. Wants to know if I am going to get another one of those big black things, meaning multi-channel amps:D.

Maybe this is why some people think the unit is better for music than for movies.Heh. Must be confusing when those people listen to music with spoken word or movies with lots of music, with the processor struggling to figure out which one to be better for.

Sanjay

Thanks. In the past I have asked two pre-pro designers about this. I was told that a pre-pro can be "voiced" for extremely razor sharp sonics or more so for music. I was never quite sure about what the difference for music was. However you are not the first to notice this. It has been 7 years since I first had that discussion so you are not the first to notice that.

You are very welcome Bulldogger! Happy to help.

It is interesting that designers can tweak a processor as you've written. I've taken quite a bit of time comparing the two pre's and what I wrote is what I've heard after hours of auditioning and comparing. It's nice to know I am not the only non-audiophile who has wax in his ears as you verify in your comment about others hearing similar differences in processors.

When I compared the two SSP's, I was using digital and the analogue bypass connecting to the the 5.1 inputs. I thought the Proceed had a slight edge in both areas. The difference is not that great, but IMHO the AVP2 + 6 has a slight bit more for music. It could also be the SSP80 does not have the hours on it that the Proceed does if you adhere to that theory. All my source material have been from Redbook and SACD.

I notice the Halcro is a little soft when playing SACD thru the PS 3. It tries to sound like a record but doesn't really involve the listener like it does when its playing LPCM. DVD audio via optical sounds better then SACD on the Halcro. When I use the Immersive unit SACD sounds open up and appear better placed and more defined. Is it voicing?, or just a better senergy between equipment.

Also LPCM thru the Halcro is a magnitude better then Dolby True HD all things considered. Both are lossless formats; but it seems like you need to bump up the Dolby True HD to get the same level of dynamics and detail that LPCM brings using BluRay

Also LPCM thru the Halcro is a magnitude better then Dolby True HD all things considered. Both are lossless formats; but it seems like you need to bump up the Dolby True HD to get the same level of dynamics and detail that LPCM brings using BluRay

Several people have said that the gain on TrueHD tracks is lower than the PCM tracks found on Blu-ray. But Iwon't be able to say for sure till I get the upgrade done on my SSP80.;):D

[QUOTE=Mozvz;11580827]You are very welcome Bulldogger! Happy to help.
It is interesting that designers can tweak a processor as you've written. I've taken quite a bit of time comparing the two pre's and what I wrote is what I've heard after hours of auditioning and comparing. It's nice to know I am not the only non-audiophile who has wax in his ears as you verify in your comment about others hearing similar differences in processors.
QUOTE]

I have either owned or had for extended periods in my home no less than 10 different high-end processors in my home over the last 6 or 7 years. All did sound differently in certain configurations. Also, I have visited and taken gear that I owned to other people's homes to compare. With crappy Dolby Digital, there has not been a lot of differences between them. This should change with the new formats. To hear differences you really had to feed the things 16/44 to sort out sonic differences or switch to the analog bypass. It has been a long wait but finally at least higher resolution stuff has become availible for home theater. It's a great time right now to be into home theater. With 1080p and higher rez audio formats for blu-ray and hd-dvd, things have really improved.

I notice the Halcro is a little soft when playing SACD thru the PS 3. It tries to sound like a record but doesn't really involve the listener like it does when its playing LPCM. DVD audio via optical sounds better then SACD on the Halcro. When I use the Immersive unit SACD sounds open up and appear better placed and more defined. Is it voicing?, or just a better senergy between equipment.

Also LPCM thru the Halcro is a magnitude better then Dolby True HD all things considered. Both are lossless formats; but it seems like you need to bump up the Dolby True HD to get the same level of dynamics and detail that LPCM brings using BluRay

Is there any way to expand LPCM or Dolby True HD from 5.1 to 7.1 channels?

[QUOTE=Bulldogger;11582672
I have either owned or had for extended periods in my home no less than 10 different high-end processors in my home over the last 6 or 7 years. All did sound differently in certain configurations. Also, I have visited and taken gear that I owned to other people's homes to compare. With crappy Dolby Digital, there has not been a lot of differences between them. This should change with the new formats. To hear differences you really had to feed the things 16/44 to sort out sonic differences or switch to the analog bypass. It has been a long wait but finally at least higher resolution stuff has become available for home theater. It's a great time right now to be into home theater. With 1080p and higher rez audio formats for blu-ray and hd-dvd, things have really improved.[/QUOTE]

I have gone through a number of pre-pro's as well in the past 5 years and agree that there definitely is a difference. I had the Proceed AVP2 +6 like Charles and had the same experience when compared to my SSP-100. I did have the Meridian G68 XXV prior to getting the Halcro and even though it was great with music it's movie performance disappointed me for the price.

Hey Charles,
Have you tried the PLIIx for music on the Halcro? For me it is worth it to go to a full 7.1 set-up only for that. I have to thank Badbennz for the tip as it is a night and day difference to regular PLII music.

With the Halcro I may lose a bit of musical performance compared to the Proceed AVP2 and Meridian G68 but for movies it sounds exactly like I want it. More dynamics, better separation and the ability to make sounds appear out of nowhere really set the Halcro apart.

For most of us a compromise has to be made between music and movie performance. I myself listen to mostly jazz and vocal recordings when I have the time to relax. For these forms of music I want a smooth almost buttery sound that relaxes you after a hard day. For movies, especially action, smooth and buttery would not be welcome comments. If 007 is shooting and bombs are going off I want the sound to be as dynamic and thrilling as possible and from my experience the smooth sounding pre's falter a bit there.

If I had more time to listen to music then the Halcro might not be my first choice but for movies I have not heard any better.

Just my 2 cents, now excuse me as I send my Halcro off to music class;)

been using the direct + THX mode to send ambient info to the rear channels

I notice the Halcro is a little soft when playing SACD thru the PS 3. It tries to sound like a record but doesn't really involve the listener like it does when its playing LPCM. DVD audio via optical sounds better then SACD on the Halcro. When I use the Immersive unit SACD sounds open up and appear better placed and more defined. Is it voicing?, or just a better senergy between equipment.

Also LPCM thru the Halcro is a magnitude better then Dolby True HD all things considered. Both are lossless formats; but it seems like you need to bump up the Dolby True HD to get the same level of dynamics and detail that LPCM brings using BluRay

With the PS3 I do notice that it puts out a higher level than my HD DVD player. Even with regular DVD's the PS3 seams louder than the HD DVD and yes the volume level is the same on the Halcro.

Does anyone else notice this?

With the PS3 I do notice that it puts out a higher level than my HD DVD player. Even with regular DVD's the PS3 seams louder than the HD DVD and yes the volume level is the same on the Halcro.

Does anyone else notice this?

Do you send a 176 khz/5 ch signal from the PS3 for sacd ?

Do you send a 176 khz/5 ch signal from the PS3 for sacd ?

Right now we are limited to 2 channel SACD from the PS3 until the upgrade for the Halcro.

Really the difference was noticed using Superman Returns on Blu-ray and HD-DVD. A friend wanted to see the difference between the 2 but the most noticeable difference was the sound. The PS3 just sounded louder and both were just the Dolby Digital track at the same level on the Halcro. Both are also connected via HDMI for both audio and video.

WHAT you mean my PS3 isn't just for gaming?

OK show of hands now. How many have ordered the LPCM upgrade?

Anybody needing a demo in Chicago can always send me a PM

I'm in the queue and waiting to here from my dealer.
Halcro can't get back to me fast enough.

OK show of hands now. How many have ordered the LPCM upgrade?

Anybody needing a demo in Chicago can always send me a PM

ME!

(Surprise)

I am supposedly in the queue but my Halcro rep isn't returning my calls.

Waiting for your reports.. :) Will do this by December...

OK show of hands now. How many have ordered the LPCM upgrade?

Anybody needing a demo in Chicago can always send me a PM

I have my Fed-Ex driver on standby waiting for the call. Antsy.......you bet!

Anybody needing a demo in Chicago can always send me a PM

Well, actually, that would be me. I've been trying to demo an SSP80 or 100 for the past few days but haven't been able to get to the dealer.

Hello all

I have been reading this forum for months and am about to pick up an ssp 100 or ssp80 in January (when I have the spare cash and I can get a factory unit without having to send it in for the lpcm mod/update). Just read about the 2 new processors they released at cedia apparently. Sorta. Very little on the net about this but some links it shows as halcro ssp-180 ssp-200 or halcro ssp 180 ssp 200. Anyways I have learned so much from reading this thread and felt my first post here should be a useful contribution. Anyone have ANY info on this. Is this real?

Regards,

Funky1

Hello all

I have been reading this forum for months and am about to pick up an ssp 100 or ssp80 in January (when I have the spare cash and I can get a factory unit without having to send it in for the lpcm mod/update). Just read about the 2 new processors they released at cedia apparently. Sorta. Very little on the net about this but some links it shows as halcro ssp-180 ssp-200 or halcro ssp 180 ssp 200. Anyways I have learned so much from reading this thread and felt my first post here should be a useful contribution. Anyone have ANY info on this. Is this real?

Regards,

Funky1


Could you provide a link to the info about these other Halcro SSP's?
You may not be able to post a link until you have more posts and if that is the case then just PM me the link and I will post it for everyone else.

To send a PM just click on my username and select "Send a Private Message"

Thanks

Mike

Yeah, I had a demo at jbm007's place- it sounded pretty sweet! It was the second time that I listened to his ATCs and didn't feel like the tweeters were going to tear my head off! My personal conclusion was that much like video, the end result is certainly more dependant on the source than the display- HD in always looks better than SD in: even on a square TV. So the more info you can pump into the processor, the less it has to guess on what the next bit will do.

So it certainly makes sense to me that the higher resolution in the source begets higher resolution from the display device.

Dan

Here is a link for info on the new Halcro SSP-180 and 200:

http://livefromcedia.com/articles/printer_520.shtml

From this it looks like the new pre's are just SSP-80 and 100's with the MPCM already installed.

I wonder if we will be getting new SSP-200 monikers once we upgrade?

Here is a link for info on the new Halcro SSP-180 and 200:

http://livefromcedia.com/articles/printer_520.shtml

From this it looks like the new pre's are just SSP-80 and 100's with the MPCM already installed.

I wonder if we will be getting new SSP-200 monikers once we upgrade?

That is exactly correct. The 180 is the 80 built with MPCM; while the 200 is the 100 built with MPCM. And the latest software version and other little changes. Halcro will continue to sell the 80 and the 100 (without the MPCM upgrade). I do not believe that an upgraded 80 and 100 will get the 180 and 200 designation.

By the way, retail pricing on all Halcro Logic products increase 5% across the board effective tomorrow (i.e., today is the last day to take advantage of the lower prices).

Spoke with my Halcro rep, and I'm headed to the top of the queue.
Now that the MPCM upgrade is finished, I'm informed they're starting work on the 1080p24 upgrade, which should not require new hardware.
As they're saying the upgrade will bring all machines up to date with latest software and hardware, does that mean the upgraded SSP-100 will be identical to the SSP-200?

I know I've asked this question before, but I've not read anything from Halcro that addresses this point. Will the upgraded versions, in their current state, definitely pass discrete 7.1 over HDMI? Or will it pass 5.1 (like the Lexicon).

I know there's either little or no 7.1 material out there, so I'm wondering if there's been anything official from Halcro, or whether anyone's been able to test this directly.

Thanks,

Nick :cool:

Spoke with my Halcro rep, and I'm headed to the top of the queue.
Now that the MPCM upgrade is finished, I'm informed they're starting work on the 1080p24 upgrade, which should not require new hardware.
As they're saying the upgrade will bring all machines up to date with latest software and hardware, does that mean the upgraded SSP-100 will be identical to the SSP-200?

Yes, that's been confirmed. I also confirmed that it won't come with the new SSP200 /180 faceplate. Just a few more hours before the new price increase is effective.

I know I've asked this question before, but I've not read anything from Halcro that addresses this point. Will the upgraded versions, in their current state, definitely pass discrete 7.1 over HDMI? Or will it pass 5.1 (like the Lexicon).

I know there's either little or no 7.1 material out there, so I'm wondering if there's been anything official from Halcro, or whether anyone's been able to test this directly.

Thanks,

Nick :cool:

7.1 discrete. There does not really appear to be a specific post processing mode in the Halcro for matrixed solutions so it would have to be discrete. They are very explicit about that in my conversations with them. Why can't the Lexicon do it as well would seem to be the more appropriate question?

Actually, PL IIx in the Halcro expands 5.1 channels to 7.1 (I believe a THX and DTS solution exists as well). Lexicon does this as well.

I don't think we will know exactly about 7.1 until we get the new units.

I am sure it will be posted immediately

Actually, PL IIx in the Halcro expands 5.1 channels to 7.1 (I believe a THX and DTS solution exists as well). Lexicon does this as well.

I don't think we will know exactly about 7.1 until we get the new units.

I am sure it will be posted immediately

Actually no. The Lexicon can not use PL IIx to expand 5.1 LPCM to 7.1. It can use Logic 7. The Halcro lacks any mode that can take 5.1 LPCM to 7.1 as far I have been able to confirm. I keep asking this question because I am wondering if it will requre newer versions of DD PL IIx to do this. So far no one has the anwser.

All pre/pros have to be programmed as to what to do when they "see" a certain signal and where to route the signal and what processors chips can handle it and "do what" with it. Some I have owned could only take a 24/96 signal and route it to stereo, no processing, not even creating a subwoofer channel. Others can take a 2 channel 24/96 signal and expand it to 5.1 but not 7.1. Because the MC12 can digitize the 5.1 analog inputs, and it does so at 24/96, it already had programming in place in the case of the Logic 7 to handle 5.1 @24/96 when it "saw" such a signal. Pre/pros are not "smart." Everything requires a specific instruction. The question is does DD PLIIx have instructions as to what to do if a 24/96 5.1 LPCM signal is inputed? Because the Lexicon MC12HD can not do it, my assumption would be no. Most of the time, the firmware of pre/pros only supports what is commonly availible. 24/96 LPCM @ 5.1, that's something new. My suspicion is that it is going to require a new "set of instructions" or a new chip. I do not know the answers. Anyone?

Does the anthem expand 5.1 to 7.1 lpcm?

Does the anthem expand 5.1 to 7.1 lpcm?

Great question! It does according to the Secrets review, http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_3/anthem-statement-d2-8-2006-page3.html . I wonder why Lexicon chose not to implement it? I guess we will know when you all get the upgrade if Halcro will. I've asked Halcro several times now. Experience has taught me not to assume anything. If it is a feature you want, no matter how basic it may seem, you have to ask specifically if that is included. It's easier to get it right the first time around instead of waiting for a new firmware version.A company can get busy fixing firmware bugs in the lastest one to worry about adding features and improvements.

Great question! It does according to the Secrets review, http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_3/anthem-statement-d2-8-2006-page3.html . I wonder why Lexicon chose not to implement it? I guess we will know when you all get the upgrade if Halcro will. I've asked Halcro several times now. Experience has taught me not to assume anything. If it is a feature you want, no matter how basic it may seem, you have to ask specifically if that is included. It's easier to get it right the first time around instead of waiting for a new firmware version.A company can get busy fixing firmware bugs in the lastest one to worry about adding features and improvements.

I looked at that link, and I don't see the question of 5.1 vs 7.1 even being addressed. Could you quote me the language you are basing your statement on?

Also, does anyone know of any 7.1 material actually available at the moment?

Thanks,

Nick :cool:

Does the anthem expand 5.1 to 7.1 lpcm?Yes, using PLIIx modes and/or THX modes. The MC-12 does it with L7 modes or THX modes. does anyone know of any 7.1 material actually available at the moment?There are a couple of Blu-ray anime titles released in Japan with discrete 7.1-channel PCM soundtracks that were specifically remixed for the BD release.

Here in the States, Blu-ray titles like 'The Descent' and 'Crank' have 6.1-channel soundtracks delivered on a 7.1-channel carrier (the surround-back information is identical in both surround-back channels). If you send the uncompressed PCM soundtrack to a receiver that can accept 7.1 discrete over HDMI, the input display will read "3/4.1" instead of the typical "3/2.1" we're used to seeing for 5.1 material.

Sanjay

I looked at that link, and I don't see the question of 5.1 vs 7.1 even being addressed. Could you quote me the language you are basing your statement on?

Also, does anyone know of any 7.1 material actually available at the moment?

Thanks,

Nick :cool:

Sorry wrong page. "Recently Anthem updated the D2 firmware to allow for setup of the default for up to 6 discrete channels of PCM so you can apply different processing on top of it. This allows me to take decoded Dolby Digital + 5.1 soundtracks that have been decoded to high resolution PCM and add stuff like THX Ultra 2 or Dolby Pro-Logic IIx post processing to it." I also read the owners manual. The Anthem will apply PL IIx to high resolution PMC to go to 7.1.

The MC-12 does it with L7 modes or THX modes. Sanjay

But why not DD PL IIx?

Good question. There's no hardware reason they couldn't do it; they have plenty of DSP horsepower for it.

But why not DD PL IIx?Not sure, but I noticed the same for when the 5.1-channel analogue input is digitized (to 96/24 PCM). I'm guessing that multi-channel PCM must either be going through the Cirrus chip (where Dolby and DTS modes are stored) as a bypassed digital signal or going directly to the first pair of SHARC engines (where THX and L7 modes are stored).

If it's the former, then the Cirrus chip may be a bottle-neck for accepting 7.1 PCM in the future. If it's the latter, then 7.1 PCM may be possible since the SHARCs all sit on a 12-channel main board. We already know that the DSPs that do surround processing aren't limited to 5.1-channel signals since they're currently processing 6.1-channel PCM (decoded DTS ES Discrete 6.1 material). The DSPs that do bass management, time alignment and room correction currently process 10-channel signals (7 main, 2 sub, 1 LFE).

Pretty forward thinking for a 6-year-old platform, but we'll have to see if Lexicon can squeeze even more functionality out of a 6-year-old platform (assuming they're willing to spend their resources doing so). Applying PLIIx to multi-channel PCM signals (either from the digitized 5.1 analogue input or from HDMI input) would probably require moving the code to the SHARC chips, and I don't know if that is possible.

Sanjay

Great question! It does according to the Secrets review, http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_3/anthem-statement-d2-8-2006-page3.html . I wonder why Lexicon chose not to implement it? I guess we will know when you all get the upgrade if Halcro will. I've asked Halcro several times now. Experience has taught me not to assume anything. If it is a feature you want, no matter how basic it may seem, you have to ask specifically if that is included. It's easier to get it right the first time around instead of waiting for a new firmware version.A company can get busy fixing firmware bugs in the lastest one to worry about adding features and improvements.

Sorry wrong page. "Recently Anthem updated the D2 firmware to allow for setup of the default for up to 6 discrete channels of PCM so you can apply different processing on top of it. This allows me to take decoded Dolby Digital + 5.1 soundtracks that have been decoded to high resolution PCM and add stuff like THX Ultra 2 or Dolby Pro-Logic IIx post processing to it." I also read the owners manual. The Anthem will apply PL IIx to high resolution PMC to go to 7.1.

In other words, the Anthem doesn't do discrete 7.1 over HDMI either. The Lexicon can do what's alluded to above with Logic 7, and, if DPLIIx does it with the Anthem, I don't see why it wouldn't do it with the Lex. It shouldn't be a function of what either processor can do--it should be function of what DPLIIx can do--which the Lex has.

If the Halcro is able to distribute discrete 7.1 over HDMI, then it does one thing that the Lexicon can't do, although it's a tiny issue, given the relative non-existence of discrete 7.1 material. It also lacks some important things the Lexicon can do, such as room correction, and, of course, Logic 7. I'm assuming that the 1080p support over HDMI for Lexicon will become a reality, as I was told at CEDIA.

Again, if someone wants all the bells and whistles (HDMI 1.3, Dolby and DTS HD decoding, 1080p support, and on, and on . . . ) the only game in town is the new Denon. From a functional standpoint, however, as long as I get a blu-ray player that decodes the new formats, I get all possible benefits of everything available with the MC12-HD, with the small exception that I'll have to overlay Logic 7 over either hi-rez format, to get two additional surround channels. That's a compromise I'll gladly live with, as I can keep pace with everything that is being thrown at me via the new twist of HDMI.

Nick :cool:

Applying PLIIx to multi-channel PCM signals (either from the digitized 5.1 analogue input or from HDMI input) would probably require moving the code to the SHARC chips, and I don't know if that is possible. I'm not sure why this wouldn't be the case, hence my contention it's not a hardware limitation. Doesn't it effectively occupy the same place in the processing chain as Logic7? If so, then is it not a matter of simply developing a parallel, firmware-based version of Logic7 processing?

Doesn't it effectively occupy the same place in the processing chain as Logic7?No. Dolby and DTS modes are on the Cirrus chip. L7 and THX modes are on the first 2 SHARC chips. For whatever reason, the modes on the Cirrus chip have never been applicable to incoming multi-channel PCM signals. Those same modes work fine when incoming DD or DTS bitstreams are decoded to multi-channel PCM on that Cirrus chip. Maybe multi-channel PCM simply goes through the Cirrus chip unprocessed? Maybe it goes around the Cirrus chip and directly to the SHARCs?

If the Halcro upgrade replaces the SSP-100's format recognition and decoding chip with something newer, then it should be able to apply PLIIx to incoming 5.1-channel PCM signals, maybe even accept incoming 7.1-channel PCM. Keep in mind that the decoder chip in the MC-12 is a few years old (pre-dating PLIIx, which had to be grafted on later as part of a software upgrade).

Sanjay

For whatever reason, the modes on the Cirrus chip have never been applicable to incoming multi-channel PCM signals.

I took a quick look at the Cirrus CS493xx data sheet (because the MC-12 uses the Cirrus CS49326), and it appears that it can only accept two-channel uncompressed digital inputs. It even calls them "L" and "R". Some variants can accept MLP, but realtime encoding to MLP would be impractical.

Anyone have a different interpretation? Here's the datasheet:

http://www.cirrus.com/en/pubs/proDatasheet/CS493xx_F7.pdf

Hasn't Lexicon stated somewhere that all digital inputs go through the Cirrus?

--Andre

No. Dolby and DTS modes are on the Cirrus chip. L7 and THX modes are on the first 2 SHARC chips. For whatever reason, the modes on the Cirrus chip have never been applicable to incoming multi-channel PCM signals. Those same modes work fine when incoming DD or DTS bitstreams are decoded to multi-channel PCM on that Cirrus chip. Maybe multi-channel PCM simply goes through the Cirrus chip unprocessed? Maybe it goes around the Cirrus chip and directly to the SHARCs?

If the Halcro upgrade replaces the SSP-100's format recognition and decoding chip with something newer, then it should be able to apply PLIIx to incoming 5.1-channel PCM signals, maybe even accept incoming 7.1-channel PCM. Keep in mind that the decoder chip in the MC-12 is a few years old (pre-dating PLIIx, which had to be grafted on later as part of a software upgrade).

Sanjay

Well, since th Halcro upgrade involves hardware swapping AND software, I imagine we'll get 7.1 LPCM. Especially, as the new models that have been announced are simply renamed processors with this upgrade and I can't imagine they are 5.1 in LPCM. Having LPCM added and not allowing for 7.1 while a hardware change is part of the upgrade is inconceivable... But we'll see...

Hasn't Lexicon stated somewhere that all digital inputs go through the Cirrus?All bitstreams and 2-channel PCM go through the Cirrus chip, but I don't know if multi-channel PCM does. According to the specs you dug up, it doesn't seem possible. So maybe those signals go directly to the SHARCs? The format detection and decoding chip seems to be the bottleneck that is currently limiting Lex and Anthem processors to 5.1-channel PCM via HDMI. It will be interesting to see if the Halcro's hardware upgrade lets it do 7.1 PCM.

Sanjay

Sanjay, I didn't make myself clear. I wasn't talking about DTS or DD but rather PLIIx. Would it not be possible to place PLIIx processing in particular in the same place where Logic7 is performed?

I wasn't talking about DTS or DD but rather PLIIx.Understood. Pro Logic IIx is a licensed Dolby technology, so it sits on the Cirrus chip with all the other stuff licensed from Dolby and DTS. Would it not be possible to place PLIIx processing in particular in the same place where Logic7 is performed?Sure, but that would mean re-writing the code that is on the Cirrus chip to work on the SHARC DSP engines. I don't know how easy or difficult that would be. Or maybe they could ask Analog Devices (makers of the SHARC chips) whether they have code for PLIIx processing that already runs on SHARCs. Either way, PLIIx processing would have to be moved to a different point in the signal processing chain than where it currently is.

Sanjay

Looks like they do:
http://www.analog.com/processors/platforms/sharcSoftwareModules.html

In other words, the Anthem doesn't do discrete 7.1 over HDMI either.
Nick :cool:

That wasn't the question . The question was whether it could expand 5.1 LPCM to 7.1 LPCM. It can.

In other words, does it with the Anthem, I don't see why it wouldn't do it with the Lex. It shouldn't be a function of what either processor can do--it should be function of what DPLIIx can do--which the Lex has.
Nick :cool:

That's your position . I want discrete 7.1 LPCM for my next upgrade and it is a BIG issue for me. If you run a 5.1 system that's fine with me. There is no one size fits all.

That wasn't the question . The question was whether it could expand 5.1 LPCM to 7.1 LPCM. It can.

But then you added your "question" of wondering why the Lex didn't do that. It does it in Logic 7. Your statement was:

Great question! It does according to the Secrets review, http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_3/anthem-statement-d2-8-2006-page3.html . I wonder why Lexicon chose not to implement it? I guess we will know when you all get the upgrade if Halcro will.

Bottom line, the Lexicon does do it, and, if the Anthem does it, it simply uses DPLIIx to overlay the 5.1 multichannel signal. That's exactly what the Lexicon can now do with Logic 7.

Whether the Lexicon can do it with DPLIIx is something I've not tried, but I'm reading Sanjay's post to suggest that it can't. That's no big deal, since Logic 7 does do this.

Nick :cool:

I want discrete 7.1 LPCM for my next upgrade and it is a BIG issue for me.Why is it such a "BIG issue" for you? Any specific usage or content that makes it so important?

Sanjay

I'd be happy with 6.1 or at a minimum matrixing5.1 to the 6th/7th channel.

Well guys it's official, shipped my SPP80 to my dealer today to have the upgrade done.

Should know in the next 3-4 weeks what it sounds like.:)

3-4 weeks? I thought it was going to be a short turnaround...

Good to hear the ball is rolling, however..

3-4 weeks? I thought it was going to be a short turnaround...

Good to hear the ball is rolling, however..

Hey Jeff,

It is a quick turn around. Halcro will have the upgrade done inside of 2 days.

Problem is that it's going to take 5 days for my unit to get down to California, where my dealer is located, from Toronto. Then 2 days to get to Halcro in Vegas. And another 5 days to get back to me from Halcro.

So all said and done 3 to 4 weeks.:(

But I look at it this way, I've waited this long another 3-4 weeks is not going to kill me.:)

Gotcha! Looking forward to it......

Dennis,

Has your dealer gotten any details on the update?

6.1 LPCM input?
7.1 LPCM?

Should be sweet!

It was always my understanding that the upgrade was meant to be 7.1 LPCM.

You know what, I just recieved an email from my dealer. I'll ask him. Hopefully he's still in front of his PC.

[QUOTE=Nick Satullo;11647921]But then you added your "question" of wondering why the Lex didn't do that. It does it in Logic 7. Your statement was:
Bottom line, the Lexicon does do it, and, if the Anthem does it, it simply uses DPLIIx to overlay the 5.1 multichannel signal. That's exactly what the Lexicon can now do with Logic 7.
QUOTE]
It's not about which can do what better. What I was trying to establish was if it was a hardware or firmaware issue preventing the Lexicon from doing DD PL IIx on 5.1 LPCM. This could be relevant to other processors including the Halcro which use PL IIX. I am also trying to figure out why these processors are limited to 5.1 LPCM. I am being told now that it is a hardware issue. I know and have stated several times that Lexicon can it with Logic7. Guess what? No one else is using Logic7 which is why my focus is on DDPL IIx. I am thinking, if even Lexicon can not make it work, then there may be something very wrong with DDPLL IIx which may mean that newer chips will be needed in upcoming processors. Clear enough now. Stop being so defensivie. This is not at all what you think it is about.

Well, I think the answer to your question is that the Lex could do DPLIIx on 5.1 sources, but it would take a new implementation of DPLIIx than the one they have now---one that uses their SHARC DSP chips instead of the Cirrus ASIC. That's evidenced by 1) the fact that they can do Logic7 on those same sources; 2) Logic7 is implemented in the SHARCs; 3) AMD has DPLIIx code for the SHARCs.

Of course only Lexicon can say if I'm right, and if they ever intend to do DPLIIx that way.

The Anthem can accept and output 6.1 (via LPCM) and overlay it with IIx.

Attn: Lexicon owners. Attn: Lexicon owners..............Sorry I forgot this was a Halcro thread.

I can confirm a answer to the question: The Halcro upgrade does ....discrete 7.1 LPCM
What you give it it will output. Now when will we see 7.1 lossless material???
Bulldogger: get your checkbook out.
Finally something Halcro does that Lexicon doesn't do. Oops...I forgot this is, was, is a Halcro thread. Enjoy

Jbm007

It's great to have this confirmation, thanks!

What I was trying to establish was if it was a hardware or firmaware issue preventing the Lexicon from doing DD PL IIx on 5.1 LPCM.PLIIx is format agnostic, so it's a hardware/implementation issue (i.e., where PLIIx is in the signal processing chain). This could be relevant to other processors including the Halcro which use PL IIX.Right, unless Halcro replaces the format recognition/decoding chip (which they've apparently done, since the upgraded version can accept 7.1 LPCM). I am also trying to figure out why these processors are limited to 5.1 LPCM.In the case of the Anthem and Lexicon, the decoder chips are a few years old and probably limited to 5.1-channel input. Nothing more complicated than that. There may be work-arounds, but who knows if either company is willing to expend valuable resources to do that, considering the negligible amount of discrete 7.1 content.

Sanjay

The Anthem can accept and output 6.1 (via LPCM) and overlay it with IIx.Only if it is input as an unencoded DTS bitstream. For LPCM via HDMI, it is limited to 5.1-channel input signals. For anything beyond 5.1 LPCM, the Halcro is it for the moment.

Sanjay

Why is it such a "BIG issue" for you? Any specific usage or content that makes it so important?

Sanjay

I enjoyed the 6.1 soundtrack of "Disturbia"! The "Disturbia" soundtrack would leave anyone craving for more. I have "Ghost in the Shell" a 7.1 LPCM title on the way. It's DD Plus though but that's may be interesting. It is just like DTS 6.1 discrete. Few titles but when you get a good one, it may be worth it. My expectation is that most of the 7.1 titles are going to be special editions of older material . I spent a lot of my back channels, 4k amp, 5k speakers, 2k extra Six shooter at retail prices but I didn't pay that. This represents a big investment for a guy on my salary:) so I want to get every cent's worth.

. For anything beyond 5.1 LPCM, the Halcro is it for the moment.

Sanjay

I am hoping that is the case. However I am being told by one engineer, that does not work for Halcro, that while HDMI 1.1 is capable of accepting 7.1 LPCM, the working solutions will use the newer on-board decorders to route 7.1 LPCM. It's not that these new decorders could not work with 1.1 but they are being "bundled" if that's a good term with the HDMI 1.3 solutions. To put it simply, I am being told that it is unlikely the Halcro will have the hardware to do 7.1 LPCM. Hope that information is wrong. New hardware, mostly not on the market yet is required to do 7.1 LPCM. That new hardware is going to be used with HDMI 1.3 solutions. Can anyone confirm or refute this? Maybe Halcro is using some of the newer hardware but with HDMI 1.1?

My SSP100 is winging its way to Halcro for the upgrade. Hope to have it back within a week or so. I'll share my impressions once I have a chance to evaluate it.

My SSP100 is winging its way to Halcro for the upgrade. Hope to have it back within a week or so. I'll share my impressions once I have a chance to evaluate it.

Do you have a Blu-ray player? Maybe you can get the anime title and see what it does with the signal? The Descent is recorded at 7.1 but the back two channels are duplicated. Still, it will tell you what the "deal" is by sending 8 channels of LPCM.

My SSP100 is winging its way to Halcro for the upgrade. Hope to have it back within a week or so. I'll share my impressions once I have a chance to evaluate it.

Congrates Terry

I'll definitely be interested in hearing you impressions on the preformance of the upgrade.

My SSP80 is on it's way to Halcro for the upgrade as well. But since It's got to cross the border I'm in for a longer wait. We're talking about 3 to 4 week.

I have a blu-ray player, but my set-up is 5.1.

Do you have a Blu-ray player? Maybe you can get the anime title and see what it does with the signal? The Descent is recorded at 7.1 but the back two channels are duplicated. Still, it will tell you what the "deal" is by sending 8 channels of LPCM.

Congrats to all that have there Halcro on the way. Mine is on it's way as well and hope to have it back by next week.

I will have to try out the Descent Blu-ray and report back on the results.

Does anyone know if the PS-3 can decode DTS MA? I believe DTS MA is a 6.1 channel code but so far I do not know of any Blu-ray players that can decode it as of yet. There are a few that will be available soon though.

I am hoping that is the case. However I am being told by one engineer, that does not work for Halcro, that while HDMI 1.1 is capable of accepting 7.1 LPCM, the working solutions will use the newer on-board decorders to route 7.1 LPCM. It's not that these new decorders could not work with 1.1 but they are being "bundled" if that's a good term with the HDMI 1.3 solutions. To put it simply, I am being told that it is unlikely the Halcro will have the hardware to do 7.1 LPCM. Hope that information is wrong. New hardware, mostly not on the market yet is required to do 7.1 LPCM. That new hardware is going to be used with HDMI 1.3 solutions. Can anyone confirm or refute this? Maybe Halcro is using some of the newer hardware but with HDMI 1.1?

I had not thought of this but I believe Halcro is updating the HDMI to 1.2 which will receive 7.1 LPCM.

Well I guess we will all find out in about a week or 2?

Ready to give up on your Theta Bulldog if it's all 7.1? Is that what I am hearing?

Ready to give up on your Theta Bulldog if it's all 7.1? Is that what I am hearing?

I'm stayin' out of this one!!!@@@ But my Six Shooter is blarin' and ready to play.

Does anyone know if the PS-3 can decode DTS MA? I believe DTS MA is a 6.1 channel code but so far I do not know of any Blu-ray players that can decode it as of yet. There are a few that will be available soon though.

The PS3 cannot decode DTS HD MA. There are rumors of an update coming but no official confirmation or date yet.

Currently there is no Blu-ray standalone player that can decode DTS HD MA. The Samsung 1400 is the only one that can bitstream it right now. But the Halcro can't support that.