The Bland's Halcro? A report??? [Text View] - Page 5

mjaudio

11-04-07, 11:44 PM

I bought a SSP-200 about two weeks ago and had a question about setting up the subs. With the Anthem I had two xlr sub outputs and ran a seperate xlr cable to each sub and used the Anthem to do all the sub controls. When listening to a CD the Anthem aloud me to run the subs (I like alot of bass) along with the mains for added kick. With the Halcro I run the single xlr out to the first sub and daisy chain the second sub to the first one. Is there a way to set the Halcro up so that when listening to a CD you can bring the subs in with it. I don't mean going to one of the surround modes just stereo with subs. I have read the manual about four or five times and I see that there is two pair of auxilary rca outputs that can be used for stereo subs. If I run my subs from these auxilary outputs will I still get the LFE info when watching a movie or will they just play what the mains are getting.

If you are running your main speakers as large you can turn on the enhanced bass in the size set-up page and the bass from your large mains will be duplicated in your subs.
I do wish the Halcro included a music and movie set-up for the speakers as I like all my speakers set to large for music but small for movies.

The auxilary outs can be used to duplicate the subs as well, either LFE or stereo or a mix of whatever you like.

Admitedly the Anthem and Lexicon are very user friendly, not that the Halcro is that complicated once you set-it up but the other 2 are probably the best set-up's out there. For me the other 2 do not have the sound quality of the Halcro which is the best I have ever had.

If I remember correctly you have 2 JL Fathoms which are excellent subs. You may want to try running your speakers small and crossed over at about 65hz to the Fathoms which are very accurate even up that high.

Halcro SSP-200 and dual Fathoms.......nice:D

KX250F

11-05-07, 12:34 AM

If you are running your main speakers as large you can turn on the enhanced bass in the size set-up page and the bass from your large mains will be duplicated in your subs.
I do wish the Halcro included a music and movie set-up for the speakers as I like all my speakers set to large for music but small for movies.

The auxilary outs can be used to duplicate the subs as well, either LFE or stereo or a mix of whatever you like.

Admitedly the Anthem and Lexicon are very user friendly, not that the Halcro is that complicated once you set-it up but the other 2 are probably the best set-up's out there. For me the other 2 do not have the sound quality of the Halcro which is the best I have ever had.

If I remember correctly you have 2 JL Fathoms which are excellent subs. You may want to try running your speakers small and crossed over at about 65hz to the Fathoms which are very accurate even up that high.

Halcro SSP-200 and dual Fathoms.......nice:D

I actually got back on hear to say that I had figured it out but I see you already posted what I figured out. Why couldn't you have replied back about 3-4 hours ago (Just kidding). I did change it over to enhanced and that gave me exactly what I wanted.

The setup menu is one place I would like to see Halcro make some improvements as well as the manual. I had the D2 for the last 1.5 years and could change that thing with my eyes closed.

Dual Fathom 113s is very cool but I've been thinking about adding two SVS Ultra 13 to go along with the Fathoms :eek:

mjaudio

11-05-07, 01:29 AM

SVS has some of the best customer service I have ever dealt with. They make one hell of a sub too boot for the price. I have not tried the new 13 Ultra but did have dual SVS Ultra's which shook the house to it's core.

With 2 Fathoms and 2 of the new 13" Ultra's you may want to warn your neighbors even if they are a mile away:eek:

Have fun.

Mike

audiman

11-05-07, 12:10 PM

I actually got back on hear to say that I had figured it out but I see you already posted what I figured out. Why couldn't you have replied back about 3-4 hours ago (Just kidding). I did change it over to enhanced and that gave me exactly what I wanted.

The setup menu is one place I would like to see Halcro make some improvements as well as the manual. I had the D2 for the last 1.5 years and could change that thing with my eyes closed.

Dual Fathom 113s is very cool but I've been thinking about adding two SVS Ultra 13 to go along with the Fathoms :eek:

How do you like the sound of the ssp-200 compared to the D2 ?

Do you miss some of the scaler functions that are on the D2 ?

KX250F

11-05-07, 01:56 PM

How do you like the sound of the ssp-200 compared to the D2 ?

Do you miss some of the scaler functions that are on the D2 ?

I got a new Marantz 1080p projector that also has the Genum processing chip so I don't miss the D2 when it comes to video scaling. Once I went from 720p to 1080p I was having a fair amount of problems with HDMI handshakes and the signal was dropping out quite a bit. I ran my 720p projector along with the D2 for about 18 months (I added a Pioneer blu-ray player this past July) without any glitches what so ever. When I added in the new projector I had to do a firmware upgrade on the D2 (to pass 1080p) and from those two changes I had nothing but problems. I dealt with it for about two weeks and then put the D2 up for sale. I was planning on keeping the D2 until Theta comes out with a solution for HDMI but decided to give the Halcro a try based alot on what I've read in this very thread. I really would have liked to get the Theta Casablanca to go along with the Citadel 1.5s and Dreadnaught but I didn't want to wait another year or more.

To me the Halcro definetely sounds better than the D2 for both music and movies. You come into the theater room behind the front main seats and I have turned around five times now thinking someone was coming up behind me when watching movies. This only happened twice in 1.5 years owning the D2. To me it just seems like the positioning of the sound to what is on the screen is more accurate. On music I feel the soundstage is bigger, deeper, and more realistic. I cannot comment about the MPCM because something is wrong with the unit and the dealer is sending me a new one.

I think both units are nice pieces and the Anthem D2 definetely has the advantage when it comes to setup menu and a very good owners manual. If its all about SQ for you (most of us it is) then the Halcro to me is a better choice.

Ian_Currie

11-05-07, 05:59 PM

The Anthem has a great design but somehow sonically it just doesn't cut it. I'm using it to bridge the gap until Theta comes out with upgrades; if I had the extra dough I'd be trying Halcro as well.

audiman

11-05-07, 07:48 PM

The D2 is a step down, sonically wise, from the CB3 with extreme dacs and a SS, but i was tired of waiting, so i sold it. Good thing i did so when the CAD$ was worth 0.80 c USD. There's more and more sellers asking prices in CAD$ on audiogon now.

I like my CRT PJ to have a neutral setup for all sources. With the D2, i have a video setup per sources. Overlay control is a big plus with the D2, especially with all the HD sources i have. I was afraid also of all the HDMI handshaking issues normally seen with newer products.

How do ssp-100 owners deal with sources calibration ?

GoodSonics

11-06-07, 12:51 PM

Its been a couple weeks since anyone has reported on getting thier HDMI Upgraded Halcro back. Has anyone received and upgrade lately, or is Halcro waiting on HDMI boards?

mjaudio

11-06-07, 03:18 PM

Its been a couple weeks since anyone has reported on getting thier HDMI Upgraded Halcro back. Has anyone received and upgrade lately, or is Halcro waiting on HDMI boards?

Who else besides the Bland, Terry and myself have said they sent out there Halcro's for the upgrade on this board?

I know Terry got his back as did I and the Bland said his was on it's way back about a week ago.

GoodSonics

11-06-07, 03:40 PM

MJ,

That's my point. Halcro has been doing the upgrades for 8 weeks and only three of the poeple here have been asked to send in their units so far? I know the board members here don't own all the Halcros, but I would have hoped that more then 3 from here were done.

I wonder how many upgrades Halcro is averaging per week, and if they are having problems sourcing the upgrade boards.

Dennis M

11-06-07, 04:06 PM

My SSP80 is in for the upgrade. Should be on its way back home at the end of the week.

Mozvz

11-06-07, 04:13 PM

Mine is still in the rack and NOT on the official list for upgrades. I'm not in a hurry to get this done, but will be on the offical list before 12/31 when the $500 credit needs to be used or I'll lose it. Reading the reviews as you guys post your experiences.

jbm007

11-06-07, 07:39 PM

Goodsonic

There are over 100 units being upgraded right now. Tells me one thing.
Money talks and BS walks.

And boy there appears to be alot of walking going on here.

coyoteshawn

11-06-07, 08:57 PM

Unit upgrade is delayed because they are out of parts. This is what the folks that are doing the upgrade have informed me. I gave my unit to the dealer the first week of september, it shipped to the place that is doing the upgrade a few weeks later, beyond that, I have been told maybe another two weeks or more. However, I now have the Lexicon MC-12HD and the room EQ and menu system is the best without a doubt. Sonically, or as the audiophiles among us like to point out (SQ), is on par with the Halcro and when you have a room like mine the Lexicon seems to be edging out the Halcro with the use of the EQ. It has taken me six straight days to tweak the unit and I have it sounding perfect. When the Halcro gets back, I will do a side by side with pics and all..:)
Remember, how your unit sounds is VERY subjective. I actually like the sound the Anthem D2 creates. Perhaps its the upsample, or the AKM dacs, but I think it has a very unique sound, especially with digital amps (Bel Canto Ref 1000s).

Shawn..:)

GoodSonics

11-06-07, 10:52 PM

Goodsonic

There are over 100 units being upgraded right now. Tells me one thing.
Money talks and BS walks.

And boy there appears to be alot of walking going on here.

Really? They have 100 units in their service center? That's hard to believe. Did you get this info from Halcro?

There are a lot of folks on the list (willing to pay the $1400) who haven't been asked to send their units in. I don't understand your "there appears to be a lot of walking" comment.

I am sure some Halcro owners haven't gotten on the list because they want to be sure that Halcro doesn't screw up. Can you blame them? We have already heard of reports from people that got the upgrade done, and it had problems.

Then there are concerns that Halcro will keep the unit for an extended time. Look at Shawn's times below. His unit will be gone at least 10 weeks in all.

I wouldn't put the cautious people in the "BS walks" category.

GoodSonics

11-06-07, 10:54 PM

Philip Brandes

11-06-07, 11:42 PM

However, I now have the Lexicon MC-12HD and the room EQ and menu system is the best without a doubt. Sonically, or as the audiophiles among us like to point out (SQ), is on par with the Halcro and when you have a room like mine the Lexicon seems to be edging out the Halcro with the use of the EQ. It has taken me six straight days to tweak the unit and I have it sounding perfect.

Shawn,

In case your unit doesn't have the recent (FREE) v1.2 upgrade enabling pass-thru 1080p at 60Hz/50 Hz/24Hz, you can download it from the Lexicon website at www.lexicon.com and install via the RS-232 port.

Cheers,
Philip Brandes

jbm007

11-07-07, 12:02 AM

Really? They have 100 units in their service center? That's hard to believe. Did you get this info from Halcro?

First off I did not say there where 100 units in their service center.

I said there was 100 units in the process of being upgraded.

2nd there is more then one service center:

There are a lot of folks on the list (willing to pay the $1400) who haven't been asked to send their units in. I don't understand your "there appears to be a lot of walking" comment.

I am sure some Halcro owners haven't gotten on the list because they want to be sure that Halcro doesn't screw up. Can you blame them? We have already heard of reports from people that got the upgrade done, and it had problems.

I have not heard from anyone here on this forum compalin about Halcro screwups but you. Seems like you got a itch just seeming like it all flared up.

Then there are concerns that Halcro will keep the unit for an extended time. Look at Shawn's times below. His unit will be gone at least 10 weeks in all.

And I cannot comment on Shawn becuse I am not his dealer and I am not taking care of his upgrade.

I wouldn't put the cautious people in the "BS walks" category.

I stand by my comments:

Then again I don't think Theta or Lexicon EVER had a problem with their upgrades; nah never.

hifisponge

11-07-07, 01:55 AM

I stand by my comments:

Then again I don't think Theta or Lexicon EVER had a problem with their upgrades; nah never.

The problem is your comments make no sense. "Money talks and BS walks" implies that Halcro is only taking care of the paying customers, when it is quite clear that there are owners willing to pay for the upgrade that can't get it or are being told to wait. Are they full of BS? What exactly is your point?

badbenzz

11-07-07, 02:51 AM

I stand by my comments:

Then again I don't think Theta or Lexicon EVER had a problem with their upgrades; nah never.

Actually that's not true my CBIII when upgraded from A to B had bugs that could not be resolved as they had no fix for it, thereby resulting in my current SSP100. Needless to say I am in no hurry to get my SSP100 upgraded despite being on the list. If the SSP100 comes back with bugs should I decide to do it would result in me getting a Meridian 861 or Mark Levinson. Keeping my fingers crossed as this is not the upgrade path I want to take as I love the sound of the SSP100.

jbm007

11-07-07, 08:30 AM

I should have been a little clearer. I am not trying to piss people off.
It just appears that there is a lot of talk here critcal of Halcro with no real substance as to how many people really are getting their unit upgraded. It's like; I am from the AVS forum and I should be on a priorty list somewhere. I do not speak for Halcro; these are my personal opinons here. The same reason I did not try to blow smoke up peoples as**s about how great their product was. I offered added comments to other peoples post. My guess thats why Halcro doesn't provide any additional info unless they have to. They dammed if the do and dammed if they don't. Maybe they should post a waiting list on the forum so people could keep track of where they are on the upgrade list. Then they would see that they are not the only ones on the list waiting for upgrades.

GoodSonics

11-07-07, 05:57 PM

jbm007

11-07-07, 08:29 PM

JBM,

I know you are a Halcro dealer, but you comments are biased even considering that. No one mentioned that AVS forum members should get priority. It would be nice if Halcro let people where they reside in the queue when people ask them though. It is that an unreasonable request???

Shawn will have been without his unit for 10 weeks. Taking off your dealer hat, do you think that is reasonable? Most people don't have spare processors laying around. I think 10 weeks is a bit much.

In previous post, you wrote "Seems like you got a itch just seeming like it all flared up." Yes, I do, but I won't bore the group with the laundry list.

I will simply say, you don't see me rant on my other gear. Actually, I complement it and its makers pretty regularly. It generally works as it is supposed to, and when I have needed service it was done in reasonable time. If I needed support, I was able to get my questions answered. If I asked for the latest firmware, I was sent the update without any hassles.

This hasn't been true for me, with Halcro. The prepro sounds terrific when working properly. The sad part is that its such a hassle to get it to that point. That's my gripe. Slow repair times and poor communication.

Regards,
Darrell

I don't have to take my dealer hat off to answer that.

Without any additional information at my fingers I would blame the dealer; assuming that there is something wrong in the way this upgrade is being handled, and followed thru with. I think 10 weeks is un acceptable, and thats my personal opinion. Can Halcro be blamed? maybe, maybe sure; but again it is up to the dealer to support his customer in what everway he can with or without Halcro's support. Things can go wrong in any company; but it is up to the dealer to help his customer anyway he can.

Mozvz

11-07-07, 09:11 PM

I don't have to take my dealer hat off to answer that.

Without any additional information at my fingers I would blame the dealer; assuming that there is something wrong in the way this upgrade is being handled, and followed thru with. I think 10 weeks is un acceptable, and thats my personal opinion. Can Halcro be blamed? maybe, maybe sure; but again it is up to the dealer to support his customer in what everway he can with or without Halcro's support. Things can go wrong in any company; but it is up to the dealer to help his customer anyway he can.

Absolutely agreed JBM!! The dealer is the liaison between the customer and the company. The dealer should coordinate and communicate the entire process of this upgrade. As I understand the procedure to initiate the upgrade, the buyer contacts the dealer; the dealer sends in the appropriate paperwork; a call tag is initiated and the SSP is picked up by the shipper. Is this correct?

When I spoke with the regional sales manager for Halcro this is the information he provided to me which I posted earlier in the thread:

Q: How long should people expect to be without their unit?

A: We anticipate a 2-3 day turnaround at the service facility. However, shipping times must be added which will be 2nd day service to the service center at Halcro’s expense and whatever time is required for return shipping which will depend on carrier, method of shipment, destination and arrangements made through the dealer.

There are idealistic and rational time frames, but 10 weeks is truly not acceptable UNLESS communication is provided at the dealer level who should be responsible to communicate to the buyer if an anomaly occurs. You call the dealer and he contacts and provides the information to the owner what the reason is for the unacceptable amount of time to complete the upgrade.

Personally, as I've been known to be a royal pain in the keister if the situation warrants a strong reaction, I'd be on the phone every day until I receive the reason for the delay. I may not like what I am hearing, but at least I'd want the truth if that is possible. Halcro also should communicate to Darrell's dealer what the reason is for the delay. They both have a hand in this stew.

If I missed something in the thread where information was provided by Darrell's dealer, then what I am writing is a moot point.

Charles

GoodSonics

11-08-07, 12:18 PM

Mozvz,

The dealer I bought the SSP-100 from no longer carries Halcro so he is of no help. Halcro assigned me a dealer in AZ, but when I ask him questions about where I am in the queue, or ask for an ETA, he claims Halcro doesn't give him any info.

Obviously a good local dealer can help with some issues, but not with others.

JBM,

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, on Halcro commincation and service times. You seem happy with it, and I am not. You being a dealer probably have better access than the rest of us here.

Fortunatley, there are more and more HDMI capable processors coming every month. The situation should be rosey in ~12 months. I picked up an AVP2+6 recently as a possible interim replacement for the Halcro. I figured I would demo it if/when my Halcro is being upgraded.

I have it setup now in place of the Halcro and it sounds great. The Halcro is better for movies, and the AVP sounds better with music (IMO). Its a discontinued unit, and ownership of the company changed hands, but when I called up and asked for the latest firmware, they e-mailed it with no hassles. Wow, what a concept.

Regards,
Darrell

Rayjr

11-08-07, 05:59 PM

"Its a discontinued unit, and ownership of the company changed hands, but when I called up and asked for the latest firmware, they e-mailed it with no hassles. Wow, what a concept."

You have to love Harman International. :)

RayJr

Dennis M

11-09-07, 08:30 AM

Have a question for the individuals who have gotten their units back.

Did you try to see if the unit will do 1080p24 passthru?

Want to know if Halcro upgraded the units to allow this or if we're going to have to wait for a firmware up date.

Thanks

terrym4

11-09-07, 12:08 PM

They are currently working on a firmware update for 1080p24.

Dennis M

11-09-07, 12:12 PM

They are currently working on a firmware update for 1080p24.

Thanks Terry

Guess its 1080i60 for the next little while. Going to be a bit tough as I've gotten used to 1080p24. Oh well, just have to wait a bit longer. Hopefully not to long.:)

WDSAV

11-12-07, 03:23 PM

Hi :)
Will there be any DTS HD MA players that does the decoding in the player it self?:)
Glen

thebland

11-12-07, 03:28 PM

Denon

WDSAV

11-12-07, 04:20 PM

Thanks Jeff,:)

Any others in the near future?

Glen:)

mjaudio

11-12-07, 06:21 PM

The PS3 is supposed to be upgradeable to DTS-HD MA as well, when that will happen is anyones guess but hopefully it is soon.

mjaudio

11-12-07, 06:22 PM

I think the new Samsung combo player will support DTS-HD MA as well.

WDSAV

11-12-07, 07:28 PM

I think the PS3 and the U5000 only does bit stream only, I'm looking for a player that has the DTS HD MA decoder inside for PCM 7.1.

Glen:)

mjaudio

11-12-07, 07:53 PM

I think the PS3 and the U5000 only does bit stream only, I'm looking for a player that has the DTS HD MA decoder inside for PCM 7.1.

Glen:)

I guess we won't know until they finally upgrade the PS3 but I was told that decoding would also be available inside the PS3.

Hopefully someone will have it soon!

WDSAV

11-13-07, 10:23 AM

thanks mjaudio, I think we have to wait and see:)

Glen

audiman

11-13-07, 06:53 PM

I think the PS3 and the U5000 only does bit stream only, I'm looking for a player that has the DTS HD MA decoder inside for PCM 7.1.

Glen:)

The PS3 does not have the capability for bitstream output for dts-ma. It will be as a PCM signal.

tyree91

11-13-07, 08:38 PM

Hi :)
Will there be any DTS HD MA players that does the decoding in the player it self?:)
Glen

I visited with one of the Pioneer engineers at CEDIA, and he told me it was exceedingly difficult to decode DTS-MA in a player and pass it as LPCM. They elected to pass undecoded DTS-MA directly to the Receiver or Pre Pro. I'm afraid because of this difficulty we may not see a player that will pass DTS-MA as decoded LPCM any time soon. The Player Manufacturers know they are aiming their players at customers who have Japanese Receivers and not high end Pre Pros. Our numbers aren't large enough to warrant expensive design decisions. Denon may do it, but at a cost of at least $2000. We shall see at CES. In the mean time the only way to do this is with a new model
1.3a Japanese Receiver. I fear this whole HDMI thing will be the undoing of the high end HT electronics industry in America. Regards, Norm

chrislee

11-14-07, 02:10 PM

mjaudio

11-14-07, 04:57 PM

I agree Norm. Seems the 'high end' processors have made very little if any movement towards full decoding of all audio formats via HDMI. Boy, if Integra/Onkyo can do it, then certainly the 'big boys' should be able to implement it too. I've been waiting for over a yr to upgrade my DC1, but there's still no non reciever/pro surr pre on the market with FULL HDMI 1.3 abilities. Ridiculous and aggravating. I'm holding onto my OLDDDDDDDD Lex till I see something that's got the full goods.
Chris

I would like to see it as well but I can sort of understand.
Onkyo, Denon and the likes are going to sell 10K + units for the investment that needs to be made for 1.3. High End company's do not sell as many units so the licensing fee for HDMI 1.3 can be very hard to recoup for a technology that does not offer that much of an advantage over LPCM.
That being said I would still like to have 1.3 but not if it is going to cost me $1K or more to upgrade to.

hifisponge

11-14-07, 05:00 PM

I agree Norm. Seems the 'high end' processors have made very little if any movement towards full decoding of all audio formats via HDMI. Boy, if Integra/Onkyo can do it, then certainly the 'big boys' should be able to implement it too. I've been waiting for over a yr to upgrade my DC1, but there's still no non reciever/pro surr pre on the market with FULL HDMI 1.3 abilities. Ridiculous and aggravating. I'm holding onto my OLDDDDDDDD Lex till I see something that's got the full goods.
Chris

End of the year there is a Primare prepro coming out that has 1.3 HDMI and Dolby TruHD and DTS-HD decoders in it. Then there is the Cary Audio attachment that partners with their Cinema 11. Those are the only two I know of. But in the end, it makes no difference to me if these new formats are decoded in the player or in the pre. I think that any pre with HDMI 1.1 or better will do the job just fine.

Michael Grant

11-14-07, 07:54 PM

I visited with one of the Pioneer engineers at CEDIA, and he told me it was exceedingly difficult to decode DTS-MA in a player and pass it as LPCM.I would love to know why that is. I mean, the computational difficulty of decoding DTS-MA is independent of where it is done. I suspect therefore he may be referring to a lack of commodity hardware to do the decoding. So it needs a more programmable processing unit to accomplish, which could drive the costs up.

GoodSonics

11-15-07, 10:42 AM

I got word today that mine will soon be on its way. :)

I've been away for a while. Jeff, did you get your unit back? It's been over three weeks since you posted the above message.

Has anyone else gotten thier upgraded unit back lately?

Dennis M

11-15-07, 10:47 AM

I've been away for a while. Jeff, did you get your unit back? It's been over three weeks since you posted the above message.

Has anyone else gotten thier upgraded unit back lately?

On Monday mine shipped out and was on it's way back. But the courier (BAX World) cannot locate it in their network and are now physically searching their depots. I am just beside myself right now!:mad:

Mozvz

11-15-07, 11:54 AM

On Monday mine shipped out and was on it's way back. But the courier (BAX World) cannot locate it in their network and are now physically searching their depots. I am just beside myself right now!:mad:

You have my sympathy!! When things like this happen, it can make you crazy. If the shipping company can't find it, maybe you'll wind up with a new 200 with BAX paying the freight!!!

chrislee

11-15-07, 12:09 PM

But still no DTS-MA. Seems to me, like the latest Panasonic BRplayer where it has no processing at all, but outputs bistream directly to the processor for decoding. This is the way of the future imo. But so far, like I said, I've seen no Pro surr processor be able to decode bitstream condec for D. TruHD, DTS-HD or DTS-MA. I'm hoping we'll see some new products at this falls shows.

End of the year there is a Primare prepro coming out that has 1.3 HDMI and Dolby TruHD and DTS-HD decoders in it. Then there is the Cary Audio attachment that partners with their Cinema 11. Those are the only two I know of. But in the end, it makes no difference to me if these new formats are decoded in the player or in the pre. I think that any pre with HDMI 1.1 or better will do the job just fine.

Dennis M

11-15-07, 12:56 PM

You have my sympathy!! When things like this happen, it can make you crazy. If the shipping company can't find it, maybe you'll wind up with a new 200 with BAX paying the freight!!!

Thanks, I appreciate that.

At this point I just want the unit back. Been without it for 8 weeks. The unit was also being repaired for an issue it was having with the balanced outs which delayed the return. Longer than expected though.
After all that BAX loses my preamp. So, even though this may turn into me getting an SSP200 on BAX's tab I'd rather just have my unit back.:(

KX250F

11-15-07, 01:07 PM

But still no DTS-MA. Seems to me, like the latest Panasonic BRplayer where it has no processing at all, but outputs bistream directly to the processor for decoding. This is the way of the future imo. But so far, like I said, I've seen no Pro surr processor be able to decode bitstream condec for D. TruHD, DTS-HD or DTS-MA. I'm hoping we'll see some new products at this falls shows.

If this is indeed the way the industry will go do you or anyone else on this forum feel that Halcro will offer a upgrade path for the SSP-100/200. I assume it would take more than a firmware download to the unit for it to accomplish decoding the said formats via bitstream.

GoodSonics

11-15-07, 05:31 PM

Thanks, I appreciate that.

At this point I just want the unit back. Been without it for 8 weeks. The unit was also being repaired for an issue it was having with the balanced outs which delayed the return. Longer than expected though.
After all that BAX loses my preamp. So, even though this may turn into me getting an SSP200 on BAX's tab I'd rather just have my unit back.:(

Halcro had your unit 8 Weeks??? It's good that they schedule the upgrades to minimize the time we have to give up our units. :rolleyes:

Then to have the shipping company lose it? When it rains, it pours I guess.

I hope your unit finds it way home soon.

Darrell

jbm007

11-15-07, 07:04 PM

Halcro had your unit 8 Weeks??? It's good that they schedule the upgrades to minimize the time we have to give up our units. :rolleyes:

Then to have the shipping company lose it? When it rains, it pours I guess.

I hope your unit finds it way home soon.

Darrell

Darrell

Could you please explain to some of these people that your upgrade included changing out additional components that need to be replaced in your unit.

Darrell will probably have a new unit inside with a different old face plate.

Some of these parts were in short supply including a new main board.

Halcro has no control over the shipping of the unit.

Goodsonics

Did you send your unit in yet?? I think you were notified. I know your dealer was.

You seemed awfully worried about getting your unit in for a upgrade.

Just curious.................

GoodSonics

11-15-07, 09:51 PM

Darrell

Could you please explain to some of these people that your upgrade included changing out additional components that need to be replaced in your unit.

Darrell will probably have a new unit inside with a different old face plate

If you had read the last few messages, it is Dennis that got his unit back, so I can't confirm your statements above.

Some of these parts were in short supply including a new main board.

This is why Halcro schedules people in right? They make sure they have the parts and personnel to upgrade the unit in a timely fashion?

How can you possibly defend an 8 week upgrade?

Halcro has no control over the shipping of the unit.

I don't think anyone said or implied that the shipping issue is Halcro's fault. It is a bad turn of events though, after waiting for two months for the upgrade to be done, to then have the unit lost. Won't you agree? I can see why Dennis is "besides himself".

Goodsonics

Did you send your unit in yet?? I think you were notified. I know your dealer was.

You seemed awfully worried about getting your unit in for a upgrade..

Yes, the Dealer called 8 days ago to tell me that Halcro was finishing up ht ecurrent units being upgraded, and that I would be sent a call tag soon. I haven't see it yet, so no I haven't been able to send it in.

I am not "worried" to get my unit in. I would like the upgrade as I have two high-res sources that could benefit from HDMI, and the promise of HDMI Audio coming soon (note to self: don't ever fall for that line again - Stupid, Stupid, Stupid) was the main reason I picked the Halcro over other Prepro choices.

You sense agony in my posts. I am torn between selling the Halcro because the issues I have had. While you can overlook buggy machines, slow repair times, poor communication, and now 8 week upgrade times, I usually only keep one high end prepro around so these are big issues (audio wise). One the other hand, If I could get the upgrade in a timely manner, and soon, and only have to send it one time, I could be happy with the Halcro unit. It sounds great when it isn't in the shop. ;)

At this point, to sell the unit, I ned to get the Upgrade. The several ones listed on Audiogon, without the upgrade aren't moving.

If I keep the unit, I want to get the Upgrade as this was the point of buying the Halcro.

Regards,
Darrell

GoodSonics

11-15-07, 09:58 PM

Darrell

Could you please explain to some of these people that your upgrade included changing out additional components that need to be replaced in your unit.

Darrell will probably have a new unit inside with a different old face plate.

Maybe you meant to say "Dennis" here?

I read Dennis' post and his unit had other things repaired. It sounds similar to the reason I had to send my in before. I guess you are saying that is why it took 8 weeks?

1) I would be curious what percent of owners have had to send their units in fro repair. In reading the forum it sounds almost half the owners had to send theirs in for repair.

2) Did Theblands Halcro also have problems before being sent in? His upgrade has taken a long time as well.

Dennis M

11-15-07, 10:13 PM

Halcro had your unit 8 Weeks??? It's good that they schedule the upgrades to minimize the time we have to give up our units. :rolleyes:

Then to have the shipping company lose it? When it rains, it pours I guess.

I hope your unit finds it way home soon.

Darrell

Actually the HDMI upgrade was done right away. I think within the first week that Halcro received my unit. Halcro was spot on with that.

What took so long was the repair work. The parts had to be shipped in from Ireland. So between transit time and customs clearance for the parts things got pushed out a bit. I was expecting 4-6 weeks but it took a bit longer.

There is good news though. The shipping company found the unit. It turns out that when it shipped out from the depot they entered in the incorrect waybill number. It was in transit but electronically it had disappeared off the face of the planet. After they backtracked all the paperwork they found that an extra digit was added to the waybill. Once they knew that they found it right away. It will be here tomorrow, knock on wood. A pretty stressful couple of days for me.

Things may have taken a little time but Halcro has treated me well. They honoured the warranty work without question and stood by their product. So like JBM has mentioned I'm pretty much receiving a brand new unit. I'd say that's pretty good.

I can't wait to hear what the HDMI upgrade is going to sound like. Tomorrow can't get here fast enough.:)

jbm007

11-15-07, 10:14 PM

I ment to say Dennis

And I don't know anything about the Blands unit.

"Long time" in relation to what?

Bland............. Care to comment.

GoodSonics

11-15-07, 10:43 PM

Actually the HDMI upgrade was done right away. I think within the first week that Halcro received my unit. Halcro was spot on with that.

What took so long was the repair work. The parts had to be shipped in from Ireland. So between transit time and customs clearance for the parts things got pushed out a bit. I was expecting 4-6 weeks but it took a bit longer.

There is good news though. The shipping company found the unit. It turns out that when it shipped out from the depot they entered in the incorrect waybill number. It was in transit but electronically it had disappeared off the face of the planet. After they backtracked all the paperwork they found that an extra digit was added to the waybill. Once they knew that they found it right away. It will be here tomorrow, knock on wood. A pretty stressful couple of days for me.

Things may have taken a little time but Halcro has treated me well. They honoured the warranty work without question and stood by their product. So like JBM has mentioned I'm pretty much receiving a brand new unit. I'd say that's pretty good.

I can't wait to hear what the HDMI upgrade is going to sound like. Tomorrow can't get here fast enough.:)

Congratulations Dennis. I am glad they found your unit. Let us know how the unit sounds when you get it back.

Dennis M

11-15-07, 11:03 PM

Congratulations Dennis. I am glad they found your unit. Let us know how the unit sounds when you get it back.

Thanks Darrell, I'll definitely let you guys know how its sounds.

There's no doubt in my mind that it will sound fabulous. The Halcro sounded great decoding DD and DTS. I can't image what it's going to sound like with a lossless source.

mjaudio

11-16-07, 12:34 AM

GoodSonics

11-16-07, 12:34 AM

Dennis,

I have tested the Lossless via HDMI, with some 2-CH DVD-A disks. It sounded terrific. I am guessing you will be a happy camper once you get your unit back.

Darrell

hifisponge

11-16-07, 01:11 AM

tyree91

11-16-07, 02:52 AM

I would love to know why that is. I mean, the computational difficulty of decoding DTS-MA is independent of where it is done. I suspect therefore he may be referring to a lack of commodity hardware to do the decoding. So it needs a more programmable processing unit to accomplish, which could drive the costs up.

Michael, you may very well be correct. Difficult can be synonymous with too costly.
Nevertheless this leaves us with no way to play DTS-MA without J Receivers. This however is changing with Primaire and Cary. I wonder where Halcro, Lexicaon, ML, Meridian, et al stand in their 1.3a solutions to this?
I am noticing that many Blu Ray titles which have also been issued in HDDVD have LPCM out only, while their HDDVD counterparts will output DD+ or Dolby True HD bit-streams for decoding by the processor. I think the Blu Ray hardware is still playing catch up so the Studios aren't bothering to make the same audio offerings that HDDVD is as of yet. This is not to say that HDDVD is supeior, just a generation ahead in time.

mjaudio

11-16-07, 03:42 AM

I am noticing that many Blu Ray titles which have also been issued in HDDVD have LPCM out only, while their HDDVD counterparts will output DD+ or Dolby True HD bit-streams for decoding by the processor. I think the Blu Ray hardware is still playing catch up so the Studios aren't bothering to make the same audio offerings that HDDVD is as of yet. This is not to say that HDDVD is supeior, just a generation ahead in time.

Actually I think HD DVD needs to catch up with Blu-ray as far as audio is concerned. I have over 30 HD DVD's and only about 8 of them have a TrueHD track. Blue-ray on the other hand has close to 20 with LPCM of the 30+ I have and the other's are mostly DTS-HD MA with only about 3 or 4 with Dolby Digital + or less. I have not been able to hear the DTS-HD MA tracks since my PS3 has not yet gotten the firmware update but I have been told it was coming and yes it would include decoding in the player.

I looked through the HD DVD list and saw there are a very small percentage that contain any HD audio codes besides DD+. Could this be were the space issue comes into play between Blu-ray and HD-DVD?
I think there are more HD DVD's that have that WOW factor with video over Blu-ray but maybe that is also why they have to skimp on the audio side. I personally would rather give up some resolution to get the HD audio to go with it as it really does make a difference in my system.

mjaudio

11-16-07, 03:58 AM

Michael, you may very well be correct. Difficult can be synonymous with too costly.
Nevertheless this leaves us with no way to play DTS-MA without J Receivers. This however is changing with Primaire and Cary. I wonder where Halcro, Lexicaon, ML, Meridian, et al stand in their 1.3a solutions to this?

You will want to include Anthem in that list as well as when I owned one and spoke with a tech from Anthem I was told that they have no plans for 1.3. It does make sense that it is a needless cost for there customers as PCM is PCM either decoded in the player or the processor. I was told that the hardware changes for 1.3 (and probably the licensing fee to HDMI) would cost about as much as the current upgrade to HDMI which was over $1000 if I remember correctly.

Just to clarify it doesn't matter if the decoder for TrueHD and DTS-HD MA is located in the pre-pro or the player as the DAC's just want PCM. There are no magical 1.3 DAC's or DTS-HD MA DAC's out there. To apply any post processing (speaker distance, levels, etc.) TrueHD and DTS-HD MA need to be converted to PCM for this to be done as well.
I just think most people want to see a TrueHD light show up on there pre-pro's display and I admit that I would not mind it as well, but not for a $1,000+ in upgrade costs :cool:

Dennis M

11-16-07, 09:20 AM

Your gonna have fun Dennis.

I suggest Stealth, Casino Royale and House of Flying Daggers all on Blu-ray in uncompressed PCM. Batman Begins TruHD on HD DVD sounds real good too.

Let us all know which soundtracks you like the best as well.

You may want to turn down your subs as well as I used to run mine a little hot but have found that the same volume as the rest of your speakers can still be frightening.

What sources for HD sound will you be using?

Yup, I think it's going to be a fun weekend.:)
Right now my library has about 160 pieces of HDM so I'm going to need the full 48 hrs.;)

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll definitely give those a spin.
One of the titles that has been sitting on my shelf, and I've refused to watch until I got the upgrade, is Black Hawk Down. Can't wait to hear those rotor blades spinning around the room. Even though it's a DD+ track We Were Soldiers is on deck as well. Great sounding film. These two films really get the adrenaline flowing when you watch them.

For HD def sources I'll be using the HD A20 and the PS3.

Your absolutely right about the sub level. The trusty old SPL meter is coming out. Probably going to spend a couple of hours dialing it all in.

Love this hobby, it just caters to the geek in me.:D

Dennis M

11-18-07, 03:28 PM

Well it's been a fun couple of days.

Spent Friday evening setting the levels on all the sources.

Setting up the source inputs to allow MPCM is very easy. Just one menu item to select and your up and running. All levels for the MPCM are taken from your master level settings. Then you can apply presets to each source for fine tuning

This upgrade sounds fantastic. The dynamic range that you here in the lossless tracks is just stunning. It's like being right in the middle of all the action.

Went through quite a few discs to evaluate the performance of the upgrade.

HD DVD
Constantine
V for Vendetta
Batman Begins
Matrix & Reloaded
300
MI3
We Were Soldiers
Apollo 13

Blu-ray
Casino Royale
Black Hawk Down
Pirates
300
Spiderman 3 (good sound & picture, lousy story)
Cars
Ratatouille

Very impressive. It was like I was experiencing them for the first time. Well, at lest the scenes I watched.

Now it has been mentioned that Blu-ray on the PS3 was sounding better than HD DVD on the Toshiba players.

To a degree I agree with this, but based on what I was experiencing it was not due to the formats. What I was seeing, IMO, was that the films chosen for release on Blu-ray had by in large better studio mixes.
Tested this out with 300. The TrueHD tracks sounded the same playing the A20 and the PS3. But the 5.1 PCM track on the Blu-ray version had a bit more air and range to it. Might be because dialnorm was used in the TrueHD track, don't no.

Have to say this upgrade was worth every penny. :)

Dennis

Mark Petersen

11-18-07, 04:24 PM

I visited with one of the Pioneer engineers at CEDIA, and he told me it was exceedingly difficult to decode DTS-MA in a player and pass it as LPCM. They elected to pass undecoded DTS-MA directly to the Receiver or Pre Pro. I'm afraid because of this difficulty we may not see a player that will pass DTS-MA as decoded LPCM any time soon. The Player Manufacturers know they are aiming their players at customers who have Japanese Receivers and not high end Pre Pros. Our numbers aren't large enough to warrant expensive design decisions. Denon may do it, but at a cost of at least $2000. We shall see at CES. In the mean time the only way to do this is with a new model
1.3a Japanese Receiver. I fear this whole HDMI thing will be the undoing of the high end HT electronics industry in America. Regards, Norm

I haven't had time to keep up with this thread but with the recent release of v2.7 FW for my XA-2 HD-DVD player I decided it was high time to check back and see if I can finally dump my MC-12B and move on to something with HDMI 1.3 that will fully decode the new high bitrate audio formats. I'm stunned and disappointed to come here and see that no real progress has been made towards a high-end pre/pro that will do what Onkyo and some of the other inexpensive receivers are doing. If a high-end solution isn't forthcoming I can easily see people like myself being forced to buy something like an Onkyo or Denon. If there isn't a good solution by CES I'm going to dump my setup and be forced to consider something like a <shudder> Denon.

mjaudio

11-18-07, 06:37 PM

Bulldogger

11-18-07, 06:49 PM

mjaudio

11-18-07, 07:20 PM

I haven't had time to keep up with this thread but with the recent release of v2.7 FW for my XA-2 HD-DVD player I decided it was high time to check back and see if I can finally dump my MC-12B and move on to something with HDMI 1.3 that will fully decode the new high bitrate audio formats. I'm stunned and disappointed to come here and see that no real progress has been made towards a high-end pre/pro that will do what Onkyo and some of the other inexpensive receivers are doing. If a high-end solution isn't forthcoming I can easily see people like myself being forced to buy something like an Onkyo or Denon. If there isn't a good solution by CES I'm going to dump my setup and be forced to consider something like a <shudder> Denon.

Primare and Cary should have a HDMI 1.3 solution shortly.

I have demoed in my own system the Onkyo 805 and Denon 3808 and can recommend the Denon highly. The Onkyo really did not sound good in my system but it could have just been a synergistic mis-match. Both were used as pre-pro's only as my speaker cables would never connect to the tight space behind the receivers.

The upgraded LPCM Halcro blew both of those receivers out of the water in my system, it should when you consider the price difference.

If you want to sell your Lexicon and use something to tide you over the Denon 3808 is very good and worked without any flaws for me in the 2 weeks I had it.

You really don't need HDMI 1.3 as PCM is all the DAC's want. Whether TrueHD or DTS-HD MA is decoded in the player or pre-pro makes no difference but I can understand why some want it.

Dennis M

11-18-07, 08:04 PM

Good to hear you like it Dennis!

Halcro has made a great pre-pro even better.

I have been debating if I should just dump HD DVD for Blu-ray only since getting the upgrade. Good tracks on HD DVD like Batman Begins sound great but have you noticed the lack of TrueHD on the majority of HD DVD releases? This is what bugs me as a lot of great HD DVD releases having nothing more than DD+ like Transformers, U-571, etc.

Now that I have experienced great soundtracks with TrueHD and lossless PCM it is tough to listen to anything else.

While I have experienced more HD DVD's with stunning picture quality Blu-ray has really wowed me with the amount of titles with great sound. Of the 30+ Blu-ray's I own only 4 do not have either TrueHD, Lossless PCM or DTS-HD MA. HD DVD on the other hand of the 30+ I own has only 8 that have TrueHD and some don't even include DD+.

Hopefully the studios will wise up in the HD DVD camp and start including high def sound to go along with the PQ.

You gotta admit Dennis, a great lossless soundtrack played back through the Halcro can be addicting:D

Actually Universal has gotten the message. All their titles since September have been TrueHD.

Paramount and Warner are the one's now with the spotty lossless support.

But I would not be to quick to dismiss DD+. If done right they sound great. Take a listen to We Were Soldiers, Tomb Raider and Apollo 13 I think you'll be surprised. Now the 640 DD+ tracks from Warner sound pretty thin and should not be passed off as HD audio. It's little better than the old DD tracks.

But I hear you. If lossless audio is available give it to us.

Batman Begins sounds good but I found Constantine and V for Vendetta sound better. I've always been a little critical of the mix on Batman. Found it to be a bit bright.

I think I'll be rewatching all my movies because of this upgrade. In fact I'm going to throw in Bram Stoker's Dracula right now. :)

coyoteshawn

11-19-07, 12:25 AM

ATI ACQUIRES THETA DIGITAL

Los Angeles, November 9, 2007—The widely acclaimed audio component manufacturer, Amplifier Technologies, Incorporated [ATI], has acquired Theta Digital of Agoura Hills, CA. Theta Digital is one of the most prestigious names in high-end audio and home theater.

This acquisition will position ATI to provide products that define the utmost audio/video experience. Long known for its innovative styling and dedication to sonic purity, Theta Digital’s legacy of unswerving devotion to quality and detail will be further enhanced by ATI’s legendary reputation.

“We have long admired Theta for its stature in the industry and we look forward to providing Theta with ATI’s extensive resources. Our goal is to strengthen Theta’s continuing commitment to providing state-of-the-art products,” stated Morris Kessler, ATI’s president.

Theta Digital designs and manufactures an award-winning array of products including the Casablanca Music and Cinema Controller, and the flagship Dreadnaught power amplifier. These components have appeared in many upscale home theater installations as well as in the reference systems of audio industry reviewers. Theta’s tagline, “Digital and Analog Done Right” personifies the company’s mission.

“Theta’s acquisition by ATI provides us with enhanced engineering and financial strength that will enable Theta to develop new, innovative products. Theta is committed to the high-end market which we have helped define for the last 20 years,” said Dave Reich, Theta’s General Manager.

This may be a great thing for Theta owners as I am interested in the virtu and valis units.
__________________

mjaudio

11-19-07, 12:38 AM

Actually Universal has gotten the message. All their titles since September have been TrueHD.

Paramount and Warner are the one's now with the spotty lossless support.

But I would not be to quick to dismiss DD+. If done right they sound great. Take a listen to We Were Soldiers, Tomb Raider and Apollo 13 I think you'll be surprised. Now the 640 DD+ tracks from Warner sound pretty thin and should not be passed off as HD audio. It's little better than the old DD tracks.

But I hear you. If lossless audio is available give it to us.

Batman Begins sounds good but I found Constantine and V for Vendetta sound better. I've always been a little critical of the mix on Batman. Found it to be a bit bright.

I think I'll be rewatching all my movies because of this upgrade. In fact I'm going to throw in Bram Stoker's Dracula right now. :)

Well I hope your right and more studios include TrueHD.

You are right that some DD+ tracks sound very good like the Transformers but I wonder how much better they could be with TrueHD.

Who knows, with the massive influx of new HD DVD players from the pre Black Friday sale from Walmart, Best Buy and Circuit City HD DVD may wind up winning this war. I will cross my fingers that if they do win the studios give us all the HD sound to go with the HD video.

I would say have fun but I know you already are!

thebland

11-19-07, 06:13 AM

My theater has been down for remodel / construction for the last 2 mos... I am hoping to get mine installed and report in the next week or so..

Bulldogger

11-19-07, 01:00 PM

My theater has been down for remodel / construction for the last 2 mos... I am hoping to get mine installed and report in the next week or so..

Take some pictures if you can.

thebland

11-19-07, 01:11 PM

Take some pictures if you can.

I have a thread..
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=936153

Steve Bruzonsky

11-19-07, 02:18 PM

I have a thread..
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=936153

BEFORE

Screen out. Baffle Wall for center channel (and speaker) exposed. L and R speakers were hidden in the wing walls on either side. Insult shield covering subs. Center sat on platform on top of subs.

http://www.winglake.com/images/components_current/theaterredo051.jpg

DEMO (watch out for nails)

http://www.winglake.com/images/components_current/theaterredo052.jpg

Jeff, is your cost overrun so much that you've got your daughter working, too?

Seriously, she's really cute - must get her looks from her mom!

Nice lookin' theater, too.

GoodSonics

11-19-07, 02:34 PM

Well start the ticker... I sent my unit off to Halcro today for the HDMI Audio upgrade. We'll see how long it takes. My dealer said they have the boards in stock, so it shouldn't take long.

Halcro supposedly issued the call tag a week ago, but there was a comminication error (surprise), between Halcro and my vendor, or UPS. Fortunately, the dealer followed up (maybe at the urging of JBM here - if so, thanks JBM), and I finally got the Call Tag.

Hopefully, Halcro will do the upgrade correctly the first time so it won't need to go back, and hopefully they will do the upgrade in reasonable time.

coyoteshawn

11-19-07, 03:32 PM

Halcro came back today from the upgrade, will report later.

Shawn..:)

Dennis M

11-19-07, 04:01 PM

Halcro came back today from the upgrade, will report later.

Shawn..:)

Congrates

You won't be coming out of your bat cave for days.;)

Rayjr

11-19-07, 09:02 PM

Halcro came back today from the upgrade, will report later.

Shawn..:)

Now this a report that I will be very interested in reading.
I want to see how the Lexicon - Halcro shoot out goes.

RayJr

kayelefkay

11-19-07, 11:54 PM

Sorry to derail the discussion on HD sound formats. I'm following with great interest. But I wonder if someone can answer this query. Can either the SSP80 or 100 do video stretching for use with an anamorphic lens? I don't need video upscaling, just the stretch.

coyoteshawn

11-20-07, 12:19 AM

Ok, I have confirmed the Halcro works great, seems faster, no HDMI issues yet and MPCM is now an option in the setup menus. Seems alot smoother in functions. I have only had the chance to preview Pirates (Dead Mans Chest) uncompressed 5.1 and so far its stunning. I will give this a full run over the holidays and run in right up against the Lexicon MC-12HD. I can tell you that it looks like the Halcro will do 7.1 MPCM and the Lex will only pass 5.1 but can use Logic 7. Its going to be a fun run over holidays. I am going to include the new Elton John 60 concert DTS, Dave Mathews Blu-Ray, Spider Man 3 Blu-Ray, Children of Men HD-DVD Dolby TrueHD and the Matrix HD-DVD. I will also compare SACD, DVD-A and Redbook audio. The DVD player for those interested will be my Integra DPS-10.5 (Onkyo SP1000). The Amps will be two Bel Canto Ref. 1000s and three M300s with Martin Logan Ascent-i speakers, etc. I am also going to run my emotiva DMC-1 against them as well. I am going to be as fair as I can including build and sound quality. Also my experiences with repairs, customer service, etc. I promise to not turn this into a battle as everyone knows these all sound wonderful.

Shawn..:)

Eric Carroll

11-20-07, 02:39 AM

I am also going to run my emotiva DMC-1 against them as well.

Does the Emotiva DMC-1 support MPCM via HDMI input? My reading suggested no, but I am not sure.

Eric

thebland

11-20-07, 07:34 AM

Will Binegar

11-20-07, 10:09 AM

Hey Shawn, I'm looking forward to hearing your impressions. Thanks for taking the time and making the effort! Have fun with it!

coyoteshawn

11-20-07, 11:06 AM

The Emotiva DMC-1 has a 2in/1out HDMI external switcher that does not pass audio. I will be using the 8 analog inputs of the DMC-1 for my HD testing. I think the Emotiva DMC-1 will be interesting because it uses a combination of what both the Lexicon and Halcro use internally (DSP 56367 in the Halcro) and the DACs from the Lexicon (AD1853). The Halcro also uses a Motorola 56371 on the HDMI board. Happy holidays guys..:)

Shawn

Eric Carroll

11-20-07, 01:53 PM

I know everyone is making their way to HDMI 1.0 Audio support via the upgrade currently underway, but has Halcro said anything about any future upgrades to built in HBR codecs (ie. DTS-HD MA) and HDMI 1.3 audio input support?

coyoteshawn

11-20-07, 11:02 PM

mjaudio

11-21-07, 12:00 AM

Hi Eric,

From what I have heard from my dealer and most folks around the industry is that HDMI 1.3a is not going to happen for the likes of the Halcro or Lexicon units for the near future. I am certain way down the line this may change and perhaps offer an upgrade path. Both the Lex and Halcro are built to be upgraded. But for the time being HDMI 1.3a will not happen for us. The only thing that you cannot pass from what I understand right now is DTS-HD Master Audio. All other forms can be output via PCM from the player. The DTS-MA situation could simply be addressed in firmware. I may be incorrect about DTS-MA as well so double check as will I. Deep color is a long way off even if they ever use it to its full potential. Anyways, all is well with the Halcro SSP 100 with the MPCM upgrade. The unit has been running for two days and not a single issues with HDMI. I get the occasional "Pop" when changing sources and it can be loud. If anybody has that issues I would like to know.

Add Anthem to that list as well. When I owned Anthem I talked to a tech and was told that Anthem had no plans to implement 1.3 as it adds nothing that LPCM already provides.
When I first bought my Halcro I was told HDMI 1.3 would be a future upgrade but now I am not so sure. Now that I am more informed I can see why that would be a waste of money since we all know HDMI 1.4 or 1.5 will add even more (locking connectors would be nice)
As I understand it NO ONE can experience DTS-HD MA right now as none of the Blu-ray players even output it as a bitstream. Ultimately it will be available as a bitstream and decoded in players for LPCM but for now we all have to wait.
I for one am chomping at the bit for DTS-HD MA as a lot of good movies has it and I am sure everyone else is as well.
It is the history of DTS though as we always have to wait for it but it delivers when it finally arrives.

Hey Shawn, I have not had any pops in my Halcro before or after the upgrade. Maybe it is just yours ears popping after listening to the PCM track of Casino Royale:D

Eric Carroll

11-21-07, 12:05 AM

Shawn,

My sole concern with HDMI 1.3 is DTS-HD MA - video is not relevant at this time, I agree.

So far I can find only one player that is announced to support decode to PCM and it is $2K MSRP. Every other new player is doing DTS-HD MA bitstream, and that means HDMI 1.3 and a decoder built in to the SSP. If the SSP does not get the bitstream via HDMI 1.3, then no DTS-HD MA - thus my question.

I didn't understand your comment about addressing DTS-HD MA in firmware.

Halcro is currently on my shortlist so I appreciate the response.

Eric Carroll

11-21-07, 12:17 AM

When I owned Anthem I talked to a tech and was told that Anthem had no plans to implement 1.3 as it adds nothing that LPCM already provides... As I understand it NO ONE can experience DTS-HD MA right now as none of the Blu-ray players even output it as a bitstream. Ultimately it will be available as a bitstream and decoded in players for LPCM

Sorry, I do not believe this is accurate.

There is no player currently on the market that decodes DTS-HD MA to PCM (or analog outputs as far as I can tell). Agreed.

The next generation of players is coming out, with DTS-HD MA. The issue is that they provide it as bitstream via HDMI 1.3 only - they do not decode to PCM. Toshiba HD-A3 and Samsung BDP-1400 are excellent examples.

There is one announced player, Denon, that I know of that will decode to PCM. It is announced as $2K MSRP.

There are today AVRs and SSPs that include built-in DTS-HD MA decoders using HDMI 1.3. The status of SSPs I know about are in this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=940065).

If DTS-HD MA is not important to you, that's fine, this issue is then irrelevant. But if it is important, currently, the only way to get it today is using:

a player with HDMI 1.3 and bitstream DTS-HD MA
a pre/pro or AVR withHDMI 1.3 with a built in DTS-HD MA decoder

Now, its entirely possible HDMI 1.x where x>3 will add something nice that people will want. I am not concerned about that. If I want DTS-HD MA now or in the near future, then I appear to have the following options:

buy a Denon player with built-in DTS-HD MA decode to PCM (2K) once released and any PCM supporting SSP
buy a DTS-HD MA bitstreamplayer with HDMI 1.3 and an AVR with built-in DTS-HD MA decoder
buy a DTS-HD MA bitstream player with HDMI 1.3 and an exising SSP with built-in DTS-HD MA decoder
buy a DTS-HD MA bitstream player with HDMI 1.3 and wait for some of the announced/rumoured HDMI 1.3 HBR supporting SSPs to come out.
be happy with regular DD/DTS & existing PCM decoders and wait to see what happens with DTS-HD MA (but this doesn't get me DTS-HD MA of course)

I just want to know where Halcro stands on the HDMI 1.3 upgrade and built in DTS-HD MA decoder before I move forward as it is on my shortlist. If there are no plans for internal decoder and HDMI 1.3 then selecting Halcro narrows the options.

Thanks for your feedback on the 1.3 upgrade plan you have heard as a Halcro owner.

Corrections/clarifications/new data are welcome. I am trying to figure this HDMI situation out just like everyone else.

Eric

mjaudio

11-21-07, 12:49 AM

If I were you I would go ahead and wait on any pre-pro until 1.3 is already available.

I have been told by someone in the industry that Sony will have a firmware upgrade for the PS3 that will internally decode DTS-HD MA and output PCM.

All of this is just rumor at this point until someone comes out with something you really want anyway.

I have used a Denon 3808 personally in my system for 2 weeks while my Halcro was away for the upgrade and can tell you it is very good. Maybe you should get a Denon 3808 until there is a suitable pre-pro that fills your needs. The Halcro with the MPCM upgrade is MUCH better than the Denon but the Denon is no slouch.

With high end pre-pro's it is always better to wait until they have what you want then hope for it. I owned the Proceed AVP2 and plenty of other high end pre-pros's and the promise of upgradability goes out the window when they go down.

Patience is the best was to describe HDMI 1.3 when it comes to high end, if it was that easy some one would have had it already.

Eric Carroll

11-21-07, 12:59 AM

sdurani

11-21-07, 01:10 AM

As I understand it NO ONE can experience DTS-HD MA right now as none of the Blu-ray players even output it as a bitstream.The currently available Samsung Blu-ray player will output DTS-HD MA as bitstream.

Sanjay

mjaudio

11-21-07, 01:37 AM

The currently available Samsung Blu-ray player will output DTS-HD MA as bitstream.

Sanjay

I meant to say "NO ONE except Samsung":D

mjaudio

11-21-07, 01:49 AM

mjaudio,

Thanks for the guidance. I may very well go ahead with Halcro, I just want to know what I am getting myself into one way or another. The dollars involved are not small.

For example, some people claim that it is against the licensing terms to emit bitstream from the player (thus the restrictions to analog and PCM). Yet, recent players are now doing that. The situation is very confused and complex.

I heard the PS3 firmware rumour, but I understood it was bitstream only again. I may be incorrect. Time will tell.

If I were in the market for a new pre-pro I would probably wait, but now that I have the Halcro my upgrading woes are satisfied (for now at least)

It is not a bad idea to wait. If you ask most installers they will tell you how HDMI can be a pain in there A**.

Halcro has treated me very well and the sound quality is the best I have ever had. I can only comment on my experience but if you read the other comment from Halcro owners you will see that they can be somewhat consistent.

Here is a thread that is very long but if you look through you will find that most people who have tried Halcro find it to be better for movies than most:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=707173

I also posted on there and found the Meridian G68 XXV and Proceed AVP2 that I owned to be a bit better musically but I would never give up my Halcro SSP-100 for either one of them.

If you can hold out a bit then it might be wise to wait but if you need something now then a Halcro SSP-200 or 180 is a no brainer.

Eric Carroll

11-21-07, 01:53 AM

mjaudio,

Do you know why the Halcro site does not list the SSP-180? I assume this is the SSP-80 with LPCM upgrade, correct?

So far I have not succeed in getting to the local Toronto Halcro dealer to get my questions answered.

mjaudio

11-21-07, 02:02 AM

The SSP-180 is the 80 with the MPCM upgrade. I do not know if they are shipping yet but the SSP-200's have.

tyree91

11-21-07, 02:49 AM

The currently available Samsung Blu-ray player will output DTS-HD MA as bitstream.

Sanjay

We are currently running a DTS-MA bitstream from both a Pioneer BDP-95HD & a Toshiba HD-A35 into a Denon AVR-3803 whose Pre outputs go to our Theta Six-Shooter. This setup covers all the bases in the here and now. Regards, Norm

thebland

11-21-07, 07:57 AM

My theater will be down for 1 1/2 more weeks.... it's killing me.

I own a Lumagen Radiance and I am going to run LPCM audio via the second HDMI output (primary HDMI out going to the PJ). I was also going to assign the output video res of that 2nd HDMI out to 480i. Will 480i allow an image on the front screen of the processor via HDMI?? I was running composite (480i) before with each source to get video on the screen.. but my HD DVD player, for example, will not allow any analog video out when HDMI is being used. So no processor screen video. This may be a way around that.

Thanks!

Dennis M

11-21-07, 08:17 AM

The unit has been running for two days and not a single issues with HDMI. I get the occasional "Pop" when changing sources and it can be loud. If anybody has that issues I would like to know.

Hi Shawn,

I to am getting the popping when switching HDMI sources. Have gotten in the habit now of muting the unit when switching.

Dennis

thebland

11-21-07, 08:41 AM

Good to know....I might incorporate a 'mute' command into a amcro for my individual source selections so each is temporarily muted when changing the sources.... Hopefully can be fixed with a software update...the Radiance had this issue as well (temporarily and was ameliorated via software).

Eric Carroll

11-21-07, 09:50 AM

thebland,

Are you going to run DTS-HD MA in your system? If so, how are you handling it?

sdurani

11-21-07, 11:02 AM

We are currently running a DTS-MA bitstream from both a Pioneer BDP-95HD & a Toshiba HD-A35 into a Denon AVR-3803 whose Pre outputs go to our Theta Six-Shooter.Norm, you had posted a couple of weeks ago that you were getting the Pioneer. Running bitstream out means that you're using the Denon 3803 as your format decoder, as well as for D/A conversion and analogue gain stage (in addition to the gain stage in the Six-Shooter). How does it sound?

Sanjay

sdurani

11-21-07, 11:04 AM

I am going to run LPCM audio via the second HDMI output (primary HDMI out going to the PJ). I was also going to assign the output video res of that 2nd HDMI out to 480i.Remember that audio via HDMI is tied to video resolution. At 480i you'll only be able to pass 2 channels of PCM. You'll need to set the output to at least 1080i or 720p to transmit multi-channel PCM.

Sanjay

thebland

11-21-07, 11:43 AM

Shoot...You are right about that.. This HDCP is for the birds!

Eric I did get your PM, I'll write when I get a few minutes.

Michael Grant

11-21-07, 11:54 AM

This particular quirk isn't HDCP's fault, actually. It's just the video-only legacy of DVI.

thebland

11-21-07, 11:57 AM

I just don't get why multi channel audio is tied to a particular video resolution?

sdurani

11-21-07, 12:09 PM

I just don't get why multi channel audio is tied to a particular video resolution?That was their design choice: audio is carried in the video signal's vertical blanking interval.

Sanjay

terrym4

11-21-07, 03:15 PM

I'm still having trouble getting SACDs to play with my PS3, which may be related to the HD Fury and/or to the linkage to video resolution (the HD Fury gives the message to the PS3 that I have a 1080p display, so I have to manually change the resolution to 1080i in the PS3). I just received Chris Botti's blu-ray, which is 24 bit MPCM @ 96Hz- and that won't play the audio either if I select uncompressed PCM, but the DD track plays fine over HDMI. I have no trouble with MPCM @ 48 Hz. I have a Pioneer FD150 on order, so when I can eliminate the HD Fury from the equation I should be able to pinpoint the problem better.

audiman

11-22-07, 06:29 AM

Eric Carroll

11-22-07, 10:24 AM

Halcro has treated me very well and the sound quality is the best I have ever had. ... I also posted on there and found the Meridian G68 XXV and Proceed AVP2 that I owned to be a bit better musically but I would never give up my Halcro SSP-100 for either one of them.

I knew about Zissou's thread some time ago, but I just finished getting all the way through it (I have a Krell Showcase I bought from Zissou as my first seperate SSP - someone has to be the market for his cast-offs. :) The problem with the Showcase (like the S1000 and many many other SSPs) is that it does not do PCM nor DTS-HD MA decode.

I appreciated your detailed comments on the SSP-100 and other SSPs you have had experience with. It really put the options into context.

If I were in the market for a new pre-pro I would probably wait.

I will either wait to see how this shakes out or (I know, I know) buy a used PCM capable AVR and lash it into the 7.1 analog inputs for PCM decode capability until the market matures.

Ideally, I would like to snag a SSP-180 but a Canadian dealer tells me they will not ship until January and will have an MSRP of CDN$10K (i.e. current MSRP plus upgrade cost plus usual unjustified CDN uplift). I might talk myself into it yet though.

My big concern with Halcro is the DTS-HD MA decoder gap. If you are paying 10K you shouldn't end up with a feature gap.

Eric Carroll

11-22-07, 10:29 AM

I meant to say "NO ONE except Samsung":D

Actually the list is longer. See this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12284105#post12284105) which itemizes all the ones I know about that are released. Several more are announced.

coyoteshawn

11-22-07, 10:06 PM

Hi,

The popping noise needs to be addressed by Halcro, the original B&K Ref 50 had the same issue some years back and they corrected it. My Marantz SR-7001 Receiver does not pop when changing sources so why does a 10K Halcro pop? May sound like no big deal, but I don't like it and it did not do that pre MPCM upgrade. B&K said the mute switch had to be upgraded and they did just that. I also find the lack of syncing to HDMI audio sources kind of harsh. It takes the SSP-100 a few seconds to lock the audio and if its turned up "Wham!" you get nailed and it scares the crap out of you. I am hoping they fix this as well. Just for the information sake, the Lexicon MC-12HD does not have this issue, no pops and instant sync. Right now the Halcro SSP-100 has been playing HD movies all day and now its being used in HD for the Colts vs Falcons game. Will report back soon.

Shawn (The other one).

Mozvz

11-23-07, 08:32 AM

audiman

11-23-07, 12:32 PM

Anthem D2 had that problem too on certain units. They fixed it with a SW upgrade.

Steve Bruzonsky

11-23-07, 03:25 PM

Theta CB had that problem for some time back in the early 1 version days- corrected years ago when Theta upgraded to the 2 version, when the software was revised to give a tiny quiet or blanking period on the audio after switching.

Nick Satullo

11-24-07, 07:09 AM

Shawn, (The other one) :)

I totally agree on the popping noise and the synchronization issue that you are experiencing with the Halcro. Has anyone who is experiencing this issue contacted Halcro about the problem?

There was, with the BDP-S1 (1st generation Sony Blu-ray player), a loud popping noise--loud enough that I was concerned that it might damage my speakers--although with nothing else HDMI. I tried (not always successfully) to have the volume control down low when I booted up the Blu-ray player.

It was reported on the SMR (Lexicon) website, that this was a known bug, but that it was attributable to Sony, not the Lex, and that Sony purportedly acknowledged the problem. Whether that's true or not, I can only guess, but I've recently upgraded to the Sony ES Blu-ray player, and the problem is gone. That sounds like it was a Sony issue, whether it was an intrinsic problem, or whether it was a handshake issue. Whatever, it's gone.

While that sounds a bit different from what you're experiencing with the Halcro, I wouldn't be surprised if the same issues were afoot. Does it do it with every source. Is it terribly loud?

I'm really anxious to hear CoyoteShawn's head-to-head conclusions between the Halcro and the Lexicon MC-12HD. Here's a prediction: There will be advantages (and the converse) to each, and it will all depend on priorities.

Remember, from an objective standpoint, the only advantage the Halcro has (and I still need convincing on this, because I just don't know of the ability to test it) is the 7.1 discrete. Room correction software is a HUGE sonic advantage in any processor, and, sorry Theta lovers, it's only the playground mentality that suggested that the Theta had any objectively discernible advantage over the Lexicon (or over the Meridian, the Halcro, or you name it) in terms of refined sound quality. I auditioned many, had several, and the Lexicon was my choice. That's my $.02 worth.

Rack 'em up, CoyoteShawn!!! Let's see what your conclusions yield.

Thanks,

Nick :cool:

jbm007

11-24-07, 08:22 AM

We have not had that problem here. Using the PS 3 and the Toshiba A20

And we have the Halcro set @ -10 db

Something else must be going on.

coyoteshawn

11-28-07, 05:35 PM

Hello everyone and I hope you all had a wonderful holiday. I have spent the last seven days listening, evaluating, taking notes on every aspect of the following pre pros. Halcro SSP-100, Emotiva DMC-1, Lexicon MC-12HD, and Anthem Statement D2. I will have a full report as quickly as I can as I am still evaluating and listening. Believe me when I say this has actually been alot of fun and I even had a listening party with quite a few friends on sunday and watched football and the blu-ray release of Live Free or Die Hard. I wish to help qualify what I do to help you better understand how I have access to this equipment, what I do professionally so as to see I have no bias in this test. I also want you to understand that these are just my opinions and that sound is very, very subjective and depends on a great many of factors from room size, floor type, amps, sources, etc.
First off I have been in the entertainment industry in central and south florida for almost 20 years. I started in radio for a company called Nationwide Communications when I was just 16 years old. I was an intern for about four months and then received my qualifications for on-air. I was co-host of a weekend call-in show that assisted teens in south and central florida (non syndicated). I did that until graduation and then began working in orlando when I was 18 for Y106 (WXXL 106.7) while attending UCF and majoring in communications. I also struck up several friendships with local bands, recording engineers, etc. and I went on to start an entertainment company of my own. I now do concert and convention lighting and sound all over the world as well as maintain a recording facility in our offices for everything from show jingles to commercial projects for clients like Clinique, Disney, etc. I would like to think after all these years I can tell you what sounds decent. I have given you the very short version of how I arrived to this point of my life. Now lets get to the contenders and just their facts...:)

Shawn...:) (the Other one)

coyoteshawn

11-28-07, 05:41 PM

The test: Equipment list

Pre/pros
Halcro SSP-100
Lexicon MC-12HD
Anthem Statement D2
Emotiva DMC-1

Amps
Bel Canto Ref 1000s, M300s
Emotiva MPS-1 Five 200w modules installed
B&K 200.7 Series 2 200w 7 channel amp

Sources
Integra DPS 10.5 Universal DVD Player
Denon 3930ci Universal DVD Player
Toshiba HD-A1, HD-A20 HD-DVD Players
Panasonic BD10a, Samsung BD-P1000 Blu-Ray Players
Apple iPod 80gig

Speakers
ML Ascent-i front right and left
ML Cinema-i center
ML Clarity surround RL
*ML Fresco rear RL *denotes only tested with MC-12HD and SSP-100 for 7.1
Sub ML Decent

Monitor
JVC DiLA (LCOS) 70" 1080P 97 series display

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/6175/dsc0315od9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/4435/dsc0317vv3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Contender No. 1

The Halcro SSP-100 in all its glory has the following information. This unit has the MPCM upgrade as you can see listed in the new updated firmware. I can confirm this firmware is much better and has improved everything. The unit had no issues with any of the listed sources except for a popping noise and audio sync when switching sources (Audio sync is a common problem for HDMI, popping noise already being fixed in software confirmed). The IR sensor works flawless even in awkward positions and distance. The Halcro is an OEM Vinci Labs/NHT creation. My unit now has the Gen7 V2 daughter card installed which believe it or not is pretty much the entire halcro units heart and soul. The DACs are AK4395VF (Five total), ADC is an AK5394AVS(One). The DSP is a Freescale/Motorola 56367 at 150mips. A 192 kHz Digital Audio Interface Receiver in the form of a CS8416. There is also on board memory, and slots for additional daughter cards all on this small Gen7 card. Vinci labs/NHT indicates that this board can be upgraded to include multiple DSPs for room EQ, newer audio codecs (DTS-HD, True-HD, etc) and host of other features. They also indicate that other freescale DSPs can be used like the more powerful 56371. You will also find top notch Burr Brown Op Amps dotted all over and other well respected IC chips. Ironically the Anthem D2 has the exact same DACs. According to Vinci Labs/NHT the HDMI board uses an Oplus RM102 scaler, Silicon Image Panelink chips, and an additional Freescale/Motorola DSP 56371. Oplus is now a part if intel and this scaler is circa 2002 so scalers have advanced way beyond this unit, however this is still a very nice HDMI board from what I gather. The same Oplus chipset is used in my Integra DPS-10.5 DVD player. This units power supply as most of you can see through the air vents is not very large, but seems well built and since the Halcro is dead quiet must work just fine. This is the only unit of the bunch to have a monitor built in. Its the LCD type so I imagine this will create no noise in audio as its low power and situated far enough away from the board. This is also the only unit to have balanced connections for everything, ins and outs. Its a very nice unit and with this new firmware they have really seemed to make it that much better. Halcro has a generous 4 year transferable warranty that is wonderful. The folks at Halcro are great, a little slow to respond sometimes (Except Gary B. that guy is around 24/7 I swear). There you have it, contender number one and just the basic facts. Contender no. 2 is on its way...:)

Shawn (The Other One)

*** Please take note, I have been informed that the main DACs are on the balanced audio board but I cannot see them on the board. I will get more confirmation. I have been told the AKM DACs on the Gen7 Ver2 card are for single ended outputs but I will research this in more depth as the AK4395 is a dual channel DAC. I will bring you more info when I receive it as I want this to be as accurate as possible. However, you see the AKM DACs plain as day.

thebland

11-28-07, 06:07 PM

Hey sounds like a reat time!! Nice equipment to compare...Looking forward to the results!!

coyoteshawn

11-28-07, 07:22 PM

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/2694/lexhalpr8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/2694/lexhalpr8.26da65e8a9.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=514&i=lexhalpr8.jpg)

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/8766/lexhal2da0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Contender No. 2

Thats right! Its a Lexicon MC-12HD perched upon a Halcro SSP-100. A work of art? I think so! The full retail of these units new could buy 16 new Integra DTC-9.8s or a nice C class Mercedes. Lets get down to business. The Lexicon is a heavy unit, the construction is very solid and the front face is a beautiful polished aluminum. Now lets get this part out of the way. The Lexicon MC-12HD is only 5.1 and only does 7.1 via software. The reasons for this are clear if you know the history of this platform. The lexicon MC-12HD sits on a JBL/Harman platform that originated 7 years ago when 5.1 was the norm. Rather than build a new platform they simply added a HDMI board, daughtercard, Upgraded DSP and firmware. Ninety nine percent of the MC-12HD is the same. JBL/Harman says the reason they did not go farther was the available 7.1 material, the lack of an HDMI standard and that would require a complete software rewrite. I have been told however that when Lexicon updates the MC-12HD to the newer platform we will be offered an upgrade path. I just hope lexicon does not choose to use the Harman Kardon platform they currently use in the MV series. The Lexicon does 7.1 in software called Logic 7 and without a doubt its very accurate and sounds terrific. The lexicon is also the only unit in the group to offer stereo subwoofer outs both balanced and unbalanced, also full room EQ, correction, level, distance, and crossover correction via several AKG mics in a handsome case. The lexicon software is hands down the most advanced, intuitive, mature of all the Pre/Pros in the test. The Lexicon allows you to control almost every aspect of the units abilities from the setup menus. You must keep in mind this unit has had several years to perfect this software. The 1.20 firmware is flawless, all of the sources had no issues other than the audio sync that seems to dog HDMI. The Lexicon MC-12HD is also the most powerful of all the units in the test when it comes to sheer DSP power. Remember, a DSP is only as good as its software, the more optimized the better. The Lexicon is optimized in spades. The central DSP is a CS49400 Dual 24/32 bit processor at 180mips, and 8 AD21065L Sharc DSPs 66mhz each. The CS49400 is on the level of the Freescale 56371 on paper, however the CS49400 is a dual core type DSP which should give it the edge. The AD21065L DSPs are circa 1998 but are very powerful for what they are intended and the fact that there is eight of them (4 on the mainboard and 4 on a daughtercard). To put all of this into reality, a single TI Aureus is theoretically more powerful than all of those DSPs combined. But the fact remains the Lexicon is the the DSP champ here. The DACs are AD1853s for all channels 12 in all. Zone two uses AK4395 DACs. The ADC is a AKM AK5383. The Analog board is dotted with the usual array of burr brown op amps and phillips ICs. The HDMI board is the very basic variety, no scaler and the simple silicon image chips to handle the inputs up to 1080P. The lexicon will pass MPCM 96K audio over HDMI but only 5.1. The unit has six HDMI inputs, the most in the bunch. A few things to note, although the lexicon in made in the USA, the boards are all manufactured in china. To some that might not be a bad thing but I was hoping they unit would be all american. The warranty is five years and non transferable, however Lexicon has been honoring warranties to even second owners. They are fast, reliable, answer the phone and great people at Harmon Specialty Group. I had a repair some years back on a DC-2 that took only two days to complete. Well, that is the basic facts of the Lexicon MC-12HD. Now onto contender No. 3.

Shawn...:) (the other one)

coyoteshawn

11-28-07, 11:53 PM

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/2049/emotivafs2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/2049/emotivafs2.7c2bbe5fbc.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=515&i=emotivafs2.jpg)

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/6581/lexemoyz0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Contender No. 3

They are a pretty pair, neat, clean lines and built like tanks. The Emotiva DMC-1 is built on a reference platform shared by Carver and Sherbourn. These units are actually built in china but most electronic boards are anyways so, whats the big deal? This is the only unit in the group to not have built in HDMI, however an extrernal HDMI switcher (Video only) works flawless. We used the 8 channel analog inputs for the HD tests, SACD and the SPdif when viewing standard DVDs and redbook audio.The Emotiva is the simplest of all the pre/pros but comes with a great remote, stellar 5 year transferable warranty, upgrade path unmatched and a sales / service staff that is the best in the industry. The unit has a CS5394 ADC and two AD1853 DACs for front left and right channels and AD1852 DACs for the remaining channels and zones. Just for the record none of these DACs in any of the pre/pros handle DSD (SACD) native according to there datasheets. The DSP is a single Freescale/Motorola 56367 150 mips. The unit is actually very big and spacious. Its deeper than both the Halcro or Lexicon and almost as tall. Its very well built with a nice toroidal power supply and lots of room inside. The Emotiva includes a tuner for FM and AM radio which I enjoy. The boards inside are laid out very nice and take up very little space with the DSP on an upgradeable daughter card. The software included for the setup includes all of your basic settings and lacks in the scope and depth of even the Halcro, however its easy to read, understand and get to doing what it does best, make movies sound great. Its also the only unit to not have the THX Ultra 2 certification so those options are missing. I however find that THX is not much more than hype. The remote that is included with this unit is an OEM theatermaster MX300. This is the best remote in the bunch, fully programable including macros. Its also the only unit to have illumination on the front to enhance the look of the system. Some people did not like that, but I think it looks stellar. Despite not having all of the depth and features of the other units I can assure you it was made to hang with the boys. Its only $899.00 right now at emotiva and that is a steal. I know its hard to fathom a pre/pro in that price range up against such giants but it had to be done. Now on to the last contender..:)

coyoteshawn

11-29-07, 12:14 AM

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/4387/dscf0317fm4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Contender No.4

I brought down this heavy unit from the loft where it lives and realized this is the best built pre/pro of the bunch. Its solid, heavy and the smooth lines and construction are second to none. I will not go into the the details about the DACs and electronics because Anthem already has wonderful details on their website. What I will tell you is the Anthem is 90% built in canada, boards and all. The exception is the Gennum VXP HDMI board that is included with the D2. Everything about the D2 is made to be upgraded, DSP, video, inputs, etc. The Gennum VXP scaler is a real scaler and full of features. No other pre/pro on the market to this day has all of the scaler features this unit has except other Anthems. When I first bought my D2 is had a few issues with that HDMI board which Anthem fixed in days and followed up with. They are fantastic to speak with and quick to repair. They offer downloadable firmware for the do-it-yourself crowd as well. This units most unique feature besides the scaler (I have little need for a scaler) is the fact that it upsamples every incoming digital signal to 24bit 192K resolution. It will also do the same on the analog inputs when DSP is selected. DSD will then be converted to PCM. Not to give to much away, this does have a rather different effect for sound which I will explain later. I will admit before I get into the meat of the test that the D2 does sound so different that its really in a whole world on its own. That statement does not mean it sounds better, just different. The internal power supply is so big that its heavier on one side than the other. Despite some other forum posters say the anthem is "Old, not built great.". they are full of it! Its true the D2 is just a D1, but why change a good thing? Besides the DACs are the very same DACs in the Halcro as well as the DSP which the anthem has in a dual configuration. They have also promised a room correction feature in february or march. The HDMI connections do have some issues with older HD-DVD players and some Blu-ray players however all of the sources worked flawless for this test. Audio sync again was an issue but still faster than the Halcro when syncing. The software here is on par with the Lexicon, its well laid out, and even has some parameters that the lexicon does not offer. It allows a flexible amount of tweaks and crossover parameters and is really a tweakers delight. I would rate the software a very, very close second to the Lexicon. The only thing I do not like is the warranty, its non transferable and that is just plain wrong. Its a great warranty if your the only owner because its 5 years as well, but they won't transfer the warranty. Well, I will begin the process of translating all of our notes and thoughts to paper and will have your report as soon as I can. Those are the contenders!!!! More to come...

Shawn (The other one)...:)

coyoteshawn

11-29-07, 12:31 AM

Thanks Jeff (thebland) I had a blast and boy was it tough. I hope you do not mind the use of your forum.

Shawn (the other one)

thebland

11-29-07, 06:18 AM

Shawn

Go ahead...this thread has always been all over the place.

Looks like you really took some time on this. Kudos to you..

Looking forward to your results!

Haroon Malik

11-30-07, 05:47 AM

Very good read Shawn! :cool: I'm looking forward to your reviews of the units. That should be equally good.

audiman

11-30-07, 07:35 AM

I can imagine all the wiring you had to do for these tests.

Just a note : the D2 cannot do 7.1 discrete. It is 5.1 matrixed.

Looking forward to your report. I'm stunned that the dacs are the same as the ssp-100. It would be nice if you could give us the speaker config you used for the units.

LEVESQUE

11-30-07, 08:46 AM

coyoteshawn

You should try to contact Anthem to get the new room-eq kit (ARC-1) since beta testing is going strong, they will probably agree to send you a kit to try it.

The Anthem D2 is a different beast with it.

And unlike the other pre/pro manufacturers that we are talking about in here, the software will be FREE. :)

coyoteshawn

11-30-07, 12:51 PM

AudioArchitect

12-01-07, 04:11 AM

Sorry about not mentioning the Anthem D2 was only 5.1 as I was originally not going to add it to the test because it was in my loft and kind of a pain to take down. I actually only tested 7.1 against the Lexicon and Halcro. I will tell all about the speaker config and yes, taking them apart to test was a pain, but a blast at the same time. I have a picture from Vinci Labs of a Gen7 V2 board that I will post as I too was shocked to see the AKM DACs. But the D1/D2 sound great so why not? Still working...:)

Shawn (the other one)

Ive never actually opened up the Halcro processors, but even though the stock photo for the Vinci Gen7 board shows it with AKM Dacs, I believe the DACs in the Halcro are actually designed by Edmund Meitner of EMM Labs, not AKM.

Bulldogger

12-01-07, 06:37 AM

Coyoteshawn, you should start a separate thread. I leaned more about some of these surround processors from you last couple of post than I have even been able to obtain from the companies who make them. Look forward to reading the rest.

Audiodynamics

12-01-07, 11:41 AM

Ive never actually opened up the Halcro processors, but even though the stock photo for the Vinci Gen7 board shows it with AKM Dacs, I believe the DACs in the Halcro are actually designed by Edmund Meitner of EMM Labs, not AKM.

Ed Meitner didn't design the DAC's in the Vinci Labs Gen 7?

Ed Meitner's EMM Converters utilize his own "Discreet Dual Differential DAC's" and the sound is something to behold.

From what I've heard, Meitner's contribution to the Gen 7 design had more to do with optimizing the entire D/A and analog circuitry. But it's all conjecture, except for the statement on the Vinci Labs web site mentioning Meitner.

coyoteshawn

12-01-07, 01:15 PM

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/7179/vinciij8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Thank some of the kind folks that work on Halcros and other Vinci Labs products. This is a Gen7 V2 board used in a Halcro SSP-100. Note the 5 AKM DACs. AKM DACs are high quality DACS used in may high end pre/pros. From the looks of these pics there is nothing but quality on this board. But straight from a rep for NHT/Vinci this is the whole Halcro units audio processing system. Ed Meitner was a design consultant on some of Vinci Labs products as well as Vinci manufactures boards for some of EMM labs products. This info is from NHT/Vinci. Thank goodness for the internet, email and research. EMM labs make outstanding products. One of the things they do that most people don't is convert from PCM to DSD, most folks just go DSD to PCM. Well, I hope that helps. Back when the report is done.

Shawn

PS: If anyone is interested in building their own pre/pro, vinci labs would love to talk to you..:) Just a quick note, from what I gather a similar if not same Gen7 V2 board is inside the NHT Controller pre/pro, although I could not get a hardcore confirmation, but I will.

*** Big correction!!! I have been told the DACs on the Halcro are actually on the balanced audio board and they are a dual configuration, like I said, there is nothing cheap about the inside of the Halcro as it uses high end components. I hope to find out what model they are soon. I have been told the DACs on the Gen7 are for only the single ended outputs but that makes little sense because the AK4395 is a dual channel DAC. However that is the Gen7 Ver2 board in the pic. I have been told by two reliable sources two different things. However I can see with my own eyes the DACs on the Gen7 V2 card are indeed AKM and that card is right out of a Halcro unit. Also, the Parasound C1/C2 use AKM DACs and they are also a Vinci Lab OEM.

Bulldogger

12-02-07, 08:34 AM

. I have been told the DACs on the Gen7 are for only the single ended outputs but that makes little sense because the AK4395 is a dual channel DAC.

It makes sense. 5 stereo dacs for 10 channels? To run balanced you would need to have double that amount.

m@rkus

12-02-07, 09:56 AM

Look forward to reading your results! You have pre pros spread all across the budget spectrum and it will be interesting to see how much difference there is in terms of sound quality between something as budget as the Emotiva gear and something as expensive as the Lex and Halcro.

RobZ

12-02-07, 09:59 AM

sfogg

12-02-07, 10:00 AM

"It makes sense. 5 stereo dacs for 10 channels? To run balanced you would need to have double that amount."

For balanced outputs you don't need dual dacs. You need balanced line drivers or transformers. To run DACs in dual differential mode you need two DAC channels. They are not the same thing though many confuse the two.

Dual differential DACs signals are summed at the output of the DACs. This gives roughly 3dB more SNR. The important point of gaining that SNR increase is summing the signal as soon after the DACs as possible. The longer you go before making the sum the less SNR benefit you gain. Done properly dual differential DACs also give the SNR benefit for single ended outputs. There is no need to have different DACs for single ended and balanced outputs.

Balanced outputs/inputs are to prevent picking up noise in the interconnects. The 'balanced' part of the name is because the two legs are impedance matched with each other... they are in balance. And one of the misunderstood thing about balanced interconnects is that they do *not* need the signal along with the phase inverted version on the second leg to gain the CMRR benefits. A signal can be sent single ended on a balanced interconnect and still gain the CMRR benefit as long as the legs are balanced the noise will couple equally in both legs and the balanced receiver will still cancel the noise.

Shawn

Ian_Currie

12-02-07, 11:01 AM

I'm also looking forward to reading the results.

coyoteshawn

12-04-07, 10:55 PM

I agree it makes sense that it has 5 DACs for 10 channels, but what did not make sense was that there is an issue as to whether these are for the single ended outputs. Anyways, I am still getting some input from some folks that were at the listening party and I have a horrible bacteria infection of the stomach, I will get this report on here ASAP.

Shawn (The Other One)

Bulldogger

12-05-07, 01:58 PM

"It makes sense. 5 stereo dacs for 10 channels? To run balanced you would need to have double that amount."

For balanced outputs you don't need dual dacs. You need balanced line drivers or transformers. To run DACs in dual differential mode you need two DAC channels. They are not the same thing though many confuse the two.

Oh, I know the difference which is why I always ask. A lot of stuff with balanced connectors is not dual differential. I like this response that I got from Muse audio ,"Balanced is a terminology that has been badly bastardized by the audiophile community and press. Balanced

refers to the balancing of the common mode impedance. What individuals who ask such a question really want

to know is whether a circuit is differential and if they are highly knowledgeable, if it is a symmetrical differential one.

The reason for this distinction is important. Something can be described as "balanced" but not be symmetrical.

The desirable characteristics are to be balanced in terms of common mode impedance so that any given circuit

exhibits good CMRR (common mode rejection ratio) performance when paired with a balanced receiver in the

subsequent piece of equipment that follows. It should also be differential so as to provide improved noise performance

and highly symmetrical to assure that the common mode properties extend across the spectrum.

The Polyhymnia (main channels) encompass all of these properties (balanced common mode impedance, differential

construction and a high degree of symmetry).

GoodSonics

12-10-07, 12:08 PM

Mozvz

12-10-07, 02:22 PM

Well, I sent my SSP-100 to Halcro for the HDMI Upgrade on 11/19. Fedex is scheduled to deliver it back today. That's a 3 week (and a day) turnaround.

If you credit 2 days for the Thanksgivng Holiday, that is about a 14 business day turnaround (for those looking to upgrade still). These times do include shipping. It looks like Halcro is smoothing out their process. ;-)

In a couple of days, I will post the results of the upgrade.

I'll be doing the upgrade in the next month of so. Thanks for sharing the results of the time frame for the turnaround. I am looking forward to your comparison especially in the music area for SQ. I would think analog and digital would remain the same if connecting via balanced, digital cable or RCA?

mjaudio

12-10-07, 11:50 PM

Goodsonics,

Your gonna have some fun.

Even though I prefer Blu-ray since it has more SQ options than HD DVD make sure you check out the Nic Cage movie "Next". This HD DVD has an excellent TrueHD track even though the movie itself is just OK.

If anyone else out there has the MPCM upgrade already can you tell me if you play Uncompressed PCM or TrueHD louder than you normally play DVD's? I still find it comfortable to play DVD's at about -15 but when playing some uncompressed PCM tracks -10 seams more appropriate and with the TrueHD track of "Next" -5 was were it sounded about right.
I am guessing that maybe some of these tracks are recorded at a lower level?

The volume thing is just something that makes me wonder but I am not interested enough to get similar movies and compare.

Gonna be interesting in seeing what you make of the upgrade Good, I can't wait for Shawns breakdown as well.

GoodSonics

12-11-07, 12:12 AM

Well, I didn't expect to be posting results so soon, as I figured I would be watching movies and DVD-A for a while. But, Halcro Service has screwed the pooch again.

When I opened the unit up, everything looked fine. The box was in great shape. I plugged in the unit, swapped cables from the AVP2+6, and re-entered my configuration. All seemed fine.

So I popped in HD-DVD, and immediately I heard this loud hissing and popping.

Gary from Halcro was terrific, helping me debug the issue. We found out that the Frimware was not updated to the latest version as required with this upgrade.

Gary sent me one utility, but not the firmware upgrade. An hour later, he got my e-mail and sent me the firmware upgrade. I loaded that. It wiped out my settings, so I had to re-enter my config.

I retested and the the hissing and popping continued. Gary helped debug things further, but in the end, he says the unit has to go back to Halcro AGAIN.

The last time I had my Halcro repaired, the Service Center had it for a month, and still couldn't give me or Halcro management and ETA. Halcro gave me a new unit.

This time, Halcro Service sent back my unit without testing it. This is apparent by the Firmware upgrade being done. Some things you can blame on shipping, but not that. They didn't upgrade the firmware or test the unit befroe shipping it.

Why doesn't Halcro line up some decent service centers? Why dont they require them to use a checklist and signed test form? It would add minutes to the repair but ensure the units are being tested, and steps aren't being forgotten.

Tonight I wasted 4 hours on this, and I still have to re setup the AVP2+6. Tomorrow I get to spend my lunch hour dropping the Unit at UPS. In all a solid 6 hours wasted, and I lose the unit for another 2-3 weeks.

I appreciated Gary's individual effort. He put in the time, and did all he could.

But, Halcro's poor quality control, and poor repair centers are simply inexcusable.

Sorry for the long rant, but this is the 2nd Service/Repair of mine they have botched. Halcro is now 0 for 2.

For those considering a Halcro purchase, save your money, and just put your nuts in a vice. You will get the same satisfaction as owning a Halcro, without the expense.

mjaudio

12-11-07, 12:45 AM

jbm007

12-11-07, 12:52 AM

badbenzz

12-11-07, 02:18 AM

OK mine is being upgraded as we speak. The last time I upgraded something (CBIII) I got rid of it within the week because of all the bugs that were introduced. Should this happen again just shoot me in the damm head.

GoodSonics

12-11-07, 03:19 AM

JBM,

Actually, I did mention above that Halcro replaced my unit, and for the record, they replaced with a DEMO unit, not a NEW one. If your going to chime in, read the previous posts and get your facts straight. And for the record, I bought my unit used FROM HALCRO DEALER.

Are you somehow defending the fact they Halcro Service didn't do the upgrade correctly, and didn't test the unit? Can you defend that they botched both repairs that I have had (0 for 2)?

Halcro has good intent. They seem to work until they get it right. Would it kill them though to get it right the first time, just once though?

I bought a unit used from a Halcro dealer - it had problems.
I sent it in for repair. - After a month, a replacement had to be sent.
I sent the unit in for upgrade - It wasnt done right and wasn't tested. It has to go back again.

I would love for Halcro to "quit being the whipping boy". If they had done the upgrade properly, I would be watching movies instead of boxing up the unit (yet again), and typing this news in the forum.

Rayjr

12-11-07, 09:54 AM

Mozvz

12-11-07, 11:05 AM

Did Coyoteshawn start another thread....or are the results not in yet?
I have been trying for while to do this kind of "shootout" but have not been able to put it together....this is the main reason for my interest.

RayJr

Ray,

I think Shawn (The Other One) had/has a bacteria infection of the stomach and is compiling his notes on the SSP's. He has not posted since 11/4.

badbenzz

12-12-07, 11:44 AM

Got my upgraded unit back yesterday and it works fine, guess I can save a bullet.

BCH

12-12-07, 03:26 PM

Got my upgraded unit back yesterday and it works fine, guess I can save a bullet.

How long did it take and what facility was yours shipped too? Meaning east or west coast just trying to get a gauge.

GoodSonics

12-12-07, 07:29 PM

Got my upgraded unit back yesterday and it works fine, guess I can save a bullet.

Congrats Bad. Please let us know how much better the High-Res sources sound.

joeycalda

12-12-07, 08:41 PM

bacterial stomach bug....must be going around...THE WORLD as a few people at work here had and I'm in Canada...darn those bacteria are quick...sorry to hear about your stomach CS....I am also looking forward to hearing your review.

JC

badbenzz

12-13-07, 02:20 AM

So far very pleased with the uncompressed sound, as with others I find myself turning the volume UP, things seem much clearer and more detailed, just wish it would play 7.1. Although I don't really miss my rears in MCPM mode, can't wait until I can play the uncompressed format in 7.1 when Halcro does it's next upgrade allowing for PLIIX.

fugueness

12-13-07, 02:22 AM

badbenzz

12-13-07, 03:51 AM

No 7.1 with the mpcm upgrade, it only plays direct or neo 6 unless the software has 7.1 for which there are only 2 titles that have it as I understand

thebland

12-13-07, 06:50 AM

No 7.1 (from 5.1) via LPCM? I am going to be (finally) setting mne up today as my theater renovation is just about complete.

I could have sworn JBM007 said there was 7.1... I asked.. I'll have to ask... On the othee hand, l'll find out soon enough myself..

If not I am sure there ia a workaround of some sort (even if supplying a Toslink or SPDIF COAX) from each source (in addditin to HDMI) to get the rear channels out of Zone 2 (for example) and then route those to your rear channel amp... Aren't the rear channels the same as the sides or are there phase and delay differences?

When did they say next upgrade for PLLIIx + 7.1?

thebland

12-13-07, 11:31 AM

I just paged through the new Quick Set Up Guide and it specifically states 'Multi-Channel PCM (7.1)'!?

We'll see. Stay tuned.....:)

badbenzz

12-13-07, 12:04 PM

Jeff let me know how you can get 7.1. When the disc is set to uncompressed, the Halcro modes available are direct or neo 6 only. I assume direct means 5.1 if the disc is only 5.1 or 7.1 if encoded, can't make rears to work in 5.1.

badbenzz

12-13-07, 12:42 PM

Sorry for the confusion of my previous post, YES it plays mpcm 7.1 if the software contains it. What I meant to say was a 5.1 disc only played 5.1 in uncompressed mode and I was unable to turn on my rears. I have since learned how to turn on my rears by going into THX mode and choosing THX Ultra2. Once again sorry for the confusion.

coyoteshawn

12-13-07, 01:38 PM

Hi Guys,

Sorry for the delay, I do have a severe bacteria infection that they think I received in the Bahamas (Don't drink the water there either). Its been awful and painful, etc. I have also added a late contender to the mix as I purchased a Integra DTC 9.8. I will only add my impressions of that unit as it was not available in time for a direct comparison with all of the units. I will however do my very best to give you my impressions based on listening, features, etc. I will try and do a small test up against the Lexicon MC-12 as they are connected side by side right now. I should have the report this week. You guys are great, thanks for being patient.

Shawn (The other one)

coyoteshawn

12-13-07, 01:47 PM

I can confirm that my upgraded Halcro SSP-100 is running flawless, no issues other than the "Pop" noise between sources but its become lower in volume for some reason. Its rock solid with all of my inputs so I am very pleased so far. Back in few..:)

Shawn (The other one)

sfogg

12-13-07, 01:53 PM

Shawn (The other one),

Do you have any of the 'Living Stereo' 3 channel SACDs? If so if you are up to it try and compare some of them on the various processors. They will highlight some of the differences in the processing of the units.

Shawn

audiman

12-13-07, 04:02 PM

Hi Guys,

I have also added a late contender to the mix as I purchased a Integra DTC 9.8.
Shawn (The other one)

Well, that's interesting. Try it with stereo also as it seems it's not that good with it.

What are you going to do with all these pre-amps ? if you want to get rid of the integra, let me know.

tlc828

12-13-07, 07:57 PM

Glad to hear some of you are getting your units back. How long did it take, they have had mine(East Coast) for almost four weeks and no word when it will be returned. My dealer is going crazy trying to find out anything. Three day turnaround my A__. Starting to get pis_ed.

jbm007

12-13-07, 08:51 PM

Just to put an end to any confusion here, I have confirmed with Halcro's Engineers that all Halcro MPCM featured processors are indeed 7.1 discreet. Anyone here who thinks otherwise is simply misinformed and wrong.

One last time, Halcro MPCM is 7.1 discreet, any questions?

For discs that don't have 7.1 discreet soundtracks, the rears can be turned on by simply putting the SSP into THX mode and choosing THX Ultra2. voila` 7.1!!!

JlgLaw

12-13-07, 09:13 PM

That's clear.:D

fugueness

12-13-07, 09:22 PM

Awesome. Can't wait to get my SSP back and put it in action!

thebland

12-13-07, 09:57 PM

I found a bit of an oddity with the Halcro....

It seems to get MPCM, you have to use a standard HD res (1080P60, 1080i, 720P) only. Any other res, would piss of the Halcro and not allow sound.. It took a couple hours to figure this out...Not great if you are using a scaler and display with an unusual res (1080P24, 1366 X 760, 540P, etc.).

fugueness

12-13-07, 09:59 PM

So you can't use 1080p24 from say, the Toshiba XA2?
Really? That's weak! Are there any plans for this feature to be added?

I found a bit of an oddity with the Halcro....

It seems to get MPCM, you have to use a standard HD res (1080P60, 1080i, 720P) only. Any other res, would piss of the Halcro and not allow sound.. It took a couple hours to figure this out...Not great if you are using a scaler and display with an unusual res (1080P24, 1366 X 760, 540P, etc.).

jbm007

12-14-07, 12:08 AM

1080 p 24 in final development ;look for the CES announcement.

1366 x760 ??? Fujitsu LCD ? non standard and will never be implemented.

540 P should work. Scaler would see that as 1080i

BTW: Panny BD 10 will only output 2 channell MPCM I think. You may want to check that out.

MPCM also works 480p and 480/64L if you have it.

Bland are you using the the Lumagen scaler? The Sony takes 1080/24 fs native.

What are you trying to feed 1080p24?

Why don't you pass 1080p24 direct to one of the HDMI outputs and MPCM to the 2 nd output.

fugueness

12-14-07, 05:44 AM

What are you trying to feed 1080p24?

Why don't you pass 1080p24 direct to one of the HDMI outputs and MPCM to the 2 nd output.

How does one do that? An HDMI splitter like one of these (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10113&cs_id=1011303&p_id=2522&seq=1&format=2)?
Then run cable to the projector, one to the SSP?

Right now I'm feeding the RS1 directly from the XA2 for HD-DVD, and using a PS3 for Blu-ray playback, both at 1080p24.

jbm007

12-14-07, 08:21 AM

The new lumagen scaler has dual HDMI output. The scaler allows you to blank the video output of the secondary HDMI output and pass audio only.

thebland

12-14-07, 09:13 AM

Jim,

I spent over an hour on the phone with Lumagen and a fair amount of time with Gary @ Halcro.

I was using 540P for my Qualia until 1080P24sf is released.

I was using HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 outs during set up. No matter how I fashioned them, no luck with a picture at 540P.

Bottom line, anything other than 720P, 1080i/P, 480P and the Halcro will not pass the audio / video. Blank PJ screen.

The Lumagen succesdfully passed a blanked video with MCPCM to the Halcro (the blanked signal is 1080i with no picture, so the Halcro rightly recognized it). So, it will accept that. But not 540P. It does not pass.

Though the Halcro shows a MCPCM on the display, it is only 2 CH. All is OK with my XA2. EDIT: I checked in the BD forum, the Panasonic BD-10 CAN pass multichannel LPCM over HDMI... I found out I have to make a second menu setting change to get it... SO, we'll retry tonight!

They should really accept all resolutions up to 1080P 24 (like my plasma does) to make this a non issue for scaler users with odd res needs.

tlc828

12-14-07, 07:12 PM

For those that have sent their Halcro to the east coast service center and have not gotten their unit back be prepaired to wait. I was told by Gary today that they are closing the east coast center(because of slow work) and all units are now going to be shipped to the west coast for the upgrade. That means the units must be sent to the west from the east and then back to us on the east coast. I guess we can kiss the three day turnaround goodbye. Mine has been out for almost four weeks and Gary could not even give an estimate of how long this will take (four or more weeks) a possiblity. This just sucks.

Mozvz

12-14-07, 09:32 PM

TLC,

Thanks for sharing the information. I recently added my name to the list for the upgrade so I would guess after reading your post until I get "The Call," it will probably be another 8 weeks. No biggie for me.

Thanks,
Charles

JlgLaw

12-14-07, 09:50 PM

Mozvz

12-14-07, 10:51 PM

Considering how long they are holding the units I've decided to wait until EVERYONE that wants the upgrade has gotten their units serviced and returned, then I'll send mine in and maybe I'll be "first" in line.:D

Jim

Smart move from a wise man. I would also wait, but need to take advantage of the rebate on the upgrade before 12/31/07, or I'll lose it. Paper work must be in by that time I was told.

On a technical note, how do you do a complete reset of the Halcro? I looked through the manual but could not find the procedure. It may be there but I may have missed it.

Thanks,
Charles

thebland

12-16-07, 11:14 AM

OK...I have mine finally set up and working through my Lumagen Radiance processor. All of my sources are connected to the Radiance and then to the Halcro and then the PJ.

I haven't had a chance to really check out LPCM yet as set up was frought with problems... (some with the Halcro not accepting attypical resolutions and some with the Radiance with so many menu, EDID, LPCM settings to find and set).

However, it is stable so far.

For 7.1 listening of Uncompressed 5.1 tracks / TRUE HD 5.1 tracks, you must engage a THX mode. THX Ultra Cinema 7.1 is the mode for movies.

I also got software to upload my settings to my computer for back up. Though I haven't employed it yet.

So, far so good. Today we'll watch Spiderman 3 BD as we are snowed in (almost a foot of snow over night). But we did make the 9:30 service this morning....

So, I'll post impressions later on.

Mozvz

12-16-07, 12:47 PM

Guys,

Does anyone know how to do a complete reset of the Halcro processor?? I cannot find it in the menu options and the manual.

Mozvz

12-17-07, 09:08 AM

There are no factory reset options in the SSP80/180 and I assume the 100/200 series. If the factory default settings are required they need to be manually inserted or else the config file needs to be reloaded with the "Initialize Default Settings" box ticked.

When the SSP is powered on the system will be reset and the last used settings activated if anyone needs the information.

Nick Satullo

12-17-07, 12:23 PM

thebland

12-17-07, 12:47 PM

I think there are a couple DTS mixes... I don't even know if I own one.

mjaudio

12-17-07, 01:42 PM

I know I've asked this before, but is there a list somewhere, in some forum, of discs that actually have 7.1 discrete mixes?

Nick :cool:

Bulldogger has a great list of Blu-ray titles and there mixes. I printed it out but have it at home.

If it isn't already posted by someone else I will get the link tonight and post it here.

GoodSonics

12-17-07, 06:26 PM

Jim,

Actually, they have the turn around time down to around 13 business days. When you consider the shipping to/from eats about 6 business days, thats not too bad.

Darrell

Considering how long they are holding the units I've decided to wait until EVERYONE that wants the upgrade has gotten their units serviced and returned, then I'll send mine in and maybe I'll be "first" in line.:D

Jim

Gary @ Halcro

12-17-07, 07:04 PM

I would like to clear up some misquotes and misunderstandings. For those who don't know, I am the US Technical Services Manager for Halcro.

I did not say that I was closing our east coast service center due to lousy work, that would be both untrue and slanderous. I have nothing but respect for them and their work, they are a manufacturer in their own right and build excellent products. What I did say, was that their turn around time was unacceptable. This I believe was due to competing priorities and the pains of creating a new business.

In order to close down the east coast service center, I have opened a second west coast service center, which I believe will be a benefit to all as I can easily oversee operations. This should in fact speed up the process, rather than further delay it.

As I have stated before, the three day turn around projections were naively made based on the time it actually takes to perform the upgrade, and did not account for the fact that the service centers have priorities and work flows of their own.

For those want to know why this is my first posting to this thread, I learned long ago that consumer forums are best left to the consumers. Manufacturer involvement is counter productive at best.

fugueness

12-17-07, 08:01 PM

Just got my SSP100 back today and in a word... WOW.
I'm running it in conjunction with an MC50 + MC20, Aerial 9's for fronts, CC5 center, SR3 surrounds, 7b's rears, and dual SW12's.
I did an A-B-C comparison with the analog output and optical, and letting the Halcro process the HD audio has taken the sonics in my HT to the next level! The added dynamics are incredible.

Like the others before, I find myself running a couple dB hotter than I did previously.

The "pop" that some are hearing when switching inputs is barely audible here, though it's definitely there. There is a slight delay and stuttering in the sound when switching inputs as the HDMI signal is synced. A minor annoyance, I guess.

Now if Halcro could get that 1080p24 firmware update out, this will be perfect! (I didn't even bother trying to send a 1080p/24hz signal through the SSP)

thebland

12-17-07, 08:55 PM

I am ready to do some real listening tomorrow night... I already listen to things at high levels, but I put in Bourne Ultimatum (car chase) and had it at +1 from reference and found the dynamics big and dialog well under control.. So, far so good!

mjaudio

12-17-07, 09:37 PM

I know I've asked this before, but is there a list somewhere, in some forum, of discs that actually have 7.1 discrete mixes?

Nick :cool:

Here is the site that Bulldogger let me know about:

http://mysite.verizon.net/ruvic/bluray-audio.htm

It has Bluray's listed by audio format. I am not sure if there is a comparable HD DVD list but I can recommend the TrueHD soundtrack of Next which sounded great.

mjaudio

12-17-07, 10:58 PM

Those Halcro guys really know how to feed our need for lossless. Here are 2 more database sites.

http://www.blu-raystats.com/index.php

http://www.hddvdstats.com/index.php

Thanks Bruce

badbenzz

12-19-07, 03:12 PM

It's just too bad there isn't a single bluray disc in 7.1 that I would want to own

guapote

12-19-07, 06:19 PM

You may wish to try Hairspray, my wife forced me to watch it with her and it was actually quite good. I usually do not like musicals but this one had great songs and really was allot of fun. Just my two cents....

jbm007

12-19-07, 10:23 PM

Listen to Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
If you listen carefully you will hear the sound sequence at the very beginning when they are all looking at the airplanes. It is there and very subbliminal. There is also 3 other spots I have identiified; see if you can find them. I have seen that movie 20 times and have never heard that sequence in the background. Quite interesting....

Bland this movie is for you. Over the top bass.

thebland

12-19-07, 10:34 PM

I'll check both out...I have watched 2 films in lossless sound and what I notice is that dialog is more relaxed than before... I have still yet to watch an action flick so as to check out the improved dynamics.

I watched The Simpsons tonight (DTS-HR) and though there were a few discrete effects and some deep bass, the dialog was just perfect.

I hope to get to some action flix this weekend and really let 'er rip!

jbm007

12-19-07, 10:37 PM

Get Bourne Ultimatim and Casino Royale

Hairspray is good but does not have many special audio effects.

coyoteshawn

12-24-07, 04:05 AM

]The results of my tests comparing some of the best pre/pros available

I want to start off by stating few items. This test was not meant to put down any of these units, they are all fantastic units each with unique abilities and wonderful sound. This test was conducted over four
days and all units where zeroed with sound level meters and we listened at equal distances for all units.I am not a pro or expert in home theater but I and my business partner have over 30 years combined
experience in the sound and entertainment industry. I hope this does not create any hard feelings between owners because I will state the obvious, GREAT SOUND IS VERY SUBJECTIVE!!! We took a look at features, ease of use, accuracy of sound and finally sound quality. We wrote several pages of notes, compiled likes and dislikes, took the time to do this with care. So with the small disclaimer out of the way,
on to the show...

The Two Channel Test:

We started out simple with the remastered Dire Straits brothers in arms redbook CD. We plopped the disc intothe integra DPS 10.5 DVD Player via coax connection and began. The first pre/pro in the lineup was the Halcro
SSP 100. Track 1 "So far away" began its light guitar tracks with ease and a smoothness that I have become familiar with in this Pre/pro. The sound even in two channel has a wrap around effect that places the instruments
in exact places with Mark Knopfler's voice squarely in the middle. Perhaps this is the result of this being one of the first all digital recording (DDD) made at the time. The Halcro does have this subtle way of allowing the source material shine through. Track three "Walk of life" has a toe tapping rhythm that the Halcro treats high and tight
which I really enjoy. The Lexicon MC-12 HD on track one did have a different sound, subtle but different. The EQwas not active as to be fair. Where the Halcro was smooth the Lexicon was a more "In your face"sound. The bass seemed tighter as well on the lexicon. The vocals on both units where clear, precise, and directly in the middle. Track three on the Lexicon again had tighter bass and we both agreed at this point these units treat bass different.We then went in to the menus and made certain all the settings were the same which they were. Now here comes the shocker, the Emotiva DMC-1 sounds in every way the same as the Lexicon. Yes I said it, the same!!! I though I wascrazy but we were all agreed it was like listening to a copy. Perhaps its the fact they both use the same DACs. I do
not know for certain, but the fact remains, to our ears, eyes closed, they sound the same. We sampled several redbookCDs including Cat Stevens Remastered greatest hits, Elton John Goodbye Yellowbrick Road, Queensryche Empire,Beach Boys Pet Sounds, Steely Dan Hits remastered and a few others. The last contender is the Anthem D2 and its a strange beast indeed. The Anthem sounds different than the other three but not in a bad way. I have often heard the sound described as airy or open and those fit as well as any other description. The Anthem has a way of adding a touchof "Live" to music as if floating. The music is as precise as on the other units.

The bottom line on two channel performance is as follows. The Halcro deals with two channel music very well without adding or taking away from the source material. It seems to our ears that the Halcro is as suited to two channel music as any dedicated two channel system in its class. The Lexicon and Emotiva also sound great in two channel, but the
Halcro in our opinion edges these units out slightly, and I mean VERY slightly. With some tweaking I am certain we could get them to sound closer. The Lexicon and Emotiva units puts the sound right out in front while the Halcro seems to space them out a little more to our enjoyment. Now the Anthem without a doubt adds to the source material, my ears do
not lie. I actually love what the Anthem does with music as I am a big fan of live sound and thats kind of what the Anthem does with its source. The Anthem opens up this illusion of a wider space that I really find easy on the ears and can enjoy for hours. With all that stated above the unit that recreates the material as I think the producer intended is the Halcro. So
in our two channel listening tests on day one, we had four guys and one girl all agree that the Halcro edged out the other
units in the two channel area in the fact that the unit was neutral. I want to reiterate that with additional EQ and tweaking, we tend to believe the Lexicon and Emotiva units could very well do the same. Although we all love the Anthem, audio purists may find the openness of this pre/pro not to their liking. I myself think its wonderful, and the Anthem is my personal
favorite for two channel playback, but the rest of the group gave the all around nod to the Halcro for two channel. So the nod for two channel the Halcro gets but not by much. The review is short, but I did not want to bore you with all the details. We did not test any SACDs in two channel because these units cannot decode DSD native. We could have bypassed the
pre/pros but that defeats the purpose. We did however test SACDs in multichannel but streamed them PCM so we could
use the EQs on the pre/pros for bass management tests. I will include a DVD-A /SACD section at another time.

So on day one of the test in the two channel trials we had the Halcro in first, followed by the Lexicon and Emotiva tied, and the Anthem in a league of its own. You cannot go wrong with any of these, but I will say again, the Halcro treated two channel music as neutral, and that is what I expect from a good dedicated two channel system.

More to come, still recovering, I have a very long named bacteria infection. More serious than I thought, lots of
antibiotics... Be back soon...:)

Shawn (The other one)

m@rkus

12-24-07, 08:15 AM

Thanks for that Shawn. Hope you feel better soon and are still able to enjoy the Holidays.

Markus

Mozvz

12-24-07, 10:03 AM

Shawn,

Thanks for sharing on the shootout. I too had a bacteria infection when I traveled to Mexico a few years and I was ill for 2-3 weeks. It's not an easy illness to shake. I have a lot of questions on the first part, but let live dogs lay. Happy Xmas to you and thanks again.

Charles

KX250F

12-24-07, 12:42 PM

Hi Guys,

I have also added a late contender to the mix as I purchased a Integra DTC 9.8. I will only add my impressions of that unit as it was not available in time for a direct comparison with all of the units. I will however do my very best to give you my impressions based on listening, features, etc. I will try and do a small test up against the Lexicon MC-12 as they are connected side by side right now.

Shawn (The other one)

Are you able to give your opinion on the Integra 9.8 for two channel at this time or are you saving this for anothert post.

AndreYew

12-24-07, 01:19 PM

This test was conducted over four
days and all units where zeroed with sound level meters and we listened at equal distances for all units.

It's good that you're trying to level-match the units for comparison, but sound level meter calibration can be off significantly by several dB. The best way to level match is with a voltmeter at the speaker terminals (mainly for convenience), and matching voltages to 1 percent.

--Andre

coyoteshawn

12-25-07, 01:33 AM

Someone had that idea on the third day and I just didn't think about doing that when I set this up. We tried to be as accurate as possible and have some fun at the same time. I agree this is a much better way to get it dead on...:)

Shawn (The other one)

Bulldogger

12-25-07, 06:22 AM

It's just too bad there isn't a single bluray disc in 7.1 that I would want to own

The next one that I am going to buy is "3:10 to Yuma." I still love westerns. 7.1 uncompressed at 24/48. http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Disc_Announcements/Lionsgate/3:10_to_Yuma_Blu-ray_Goes_Profile_1.1/1183

badbenzz

12-25-07, 03:59 PM

OK Bulldogger maybe I would buy that one. Hopefully some better titles will be coming out with 7.1 soon.

sdurani

12-26-07, 02:34 PM

The Halcro deals with two channel music very well without adding or taking away from the source material.

Now the Anthem without a doubt adds to the source material, my ears do
not lie.Appreciate the detailed comparison Shawn; looking forward to more. Quick question meanwhile: what were you using as a reference point to judge neutrality?

For example, if we were listening to two speakers we would probably agree which one sounded warmer and which sounded brighter. However, if I said one was neutral while the other added treble, then that becomes a little tricky. Suppose you brought in the studio monitors used to mix the recording we were listening to and it turns out that they matched the brighter of the two speakers. That would mean the one I labeled brighter was actually neutral, and the one I said was neutral was in fact rolling off the high frequencies.

Likewise, when comparing the Halcro to the Anthem, did you have a reference from which to gauge? It would have made it clearer whether the Halcro was neutral and the Anthem was expanding the soundstage versus the Anthem being neutral and the Halcro pinching the soundstage.

I know subjectively you said you prefered the Anthem, I'm just curious about objective neutrality. When you say the Halcro "recreates the material as I think the producer intended", what makes you think that (i.e., what was the reference for comparison that made you reach that conclusion)?

Thanx,
Sanjay

thebland

12-26-07, 06:16 PM

I just noticed that my SSP seems to be clipping blacks... I threw in DVE HD DVD Essentials and no BTB. When I bypass the processor, black are black.

Anyone else notice this?

jbm007

12-26-07, 07:33 PM

I just noticed that my SSP seems to be clipping blacks... I threw in DVE HD DVD Essentials and no BTB. When I bypass the processor, black are black.

Anyone else notice this?

Yes ..........

fugueness

12-26-07, 07:34 PM

I just noticed that my SSP seems to be clipping blacks... I threw in DVE HD DVD Essentials and no BTB. When I bypass the processor, black are black.

Anyone else notice this?

Are you using the SSP scaler or pass through?

thebland

12-26-07, 07:39 PM

I am passing through... No scaler. Perhaps, I might engage it to see what happens.. I am running 1080P through the the Halcro---> Lumagen Radiance----> Projector. I was watching Casino Royale last night and noticed the blacks looked crushed. So, this afternoon, I threw in HD DVD Video Essentials into the HD DVD player and SD Digital Video Essentials into the BD player. Both clipped blacks. Bypassing the Halcro (but through my Lumagen), the blacks were back.

Not sure what to think... or how to help it.

GoodSonics

12-27-07, 10:43 AM

JBM,

Since you know about the Black crush problem on the Halcros, can we assume that Halcro does as well? Do you know if they are working on a firmware fix?

Thanks,
Darrell

thebland

12-27-07, 11:31 AM

Good to know it is not isolated. Once tested, it was easy to confirm.

Fortunately, the Lumagen allowed me a re-route to get HDMI audio to the Halcro and upscaled video to the projector (bypassing the Halcro). So my blacks are back. So, I am OK...but not my preferred way of set up.

JBM,

I know Halcro is working on an update for 1080P24, I am sure they will address the clipped blacks issue (I should check for whites as well).

Moreover, I'd like to see the Halcro at least accept / pass through (but perhaps not scale if too complicated) the more atypical PJ resolutions (e.g. 540P, 1366 X 768, 1080P24sF, etc). They don't require a lot of bandwidth and would certainly make things easier and more flexible for many of us that use two zones or have a non-1080P plasma for a display.

Other than that, a separate control to augment / boost LFE would be slick as well!

Thanks.

That said, the sound is excellent and MLPCM is stable.

terrym4

12-27-07, 02:01 PM

This must be an issue with HDMI. because I get BTB with the Halcro processing through component input.

thebland

12-29-07, 08:33 AM

I ordered a HD FURY HDMI sink for the HDMI out on my Halcro. Terry had good luck with his acting as a sink, but with poor video quality.

I am looking forward to this as a HDMI connection is required for multi channel LPCM (thanks to HDCP):(.

Fortunately, I have a plasma nearby and am using that...However, it has to be powered on and switched to HDMI for it to sink with the Halcro.

On a positive note, I watched the 24 bit Uncompressed track from Disney's CARS Blu Ray last night and it was easily the best sonic experience in my theater ever!!!! The sound stage was huge, the rear effects were amazing with pinpoint effects and pans all over the place. Just nothing like I have ever heard before. Dialog was crystal clear and dynamics were fantastic. It had a very powerful low end as well. But the spatial effects and huge sound stage were simply astonishing.... What a difference over the DD version. It seemed exactly what I'd expect a master tape to sound like.. Best soundtrack ever!!

Dennis M

12-29-07, 09:47 AM

JBM,

I know Halcro is working on an update for 1080P24, I am sure they will address the clipped blacks issue (I should check for whites as well).

Bland,

Both blacks and whites are being clipped by the Halcro. Bring up the 10 -100 ire ramp pattern and you'll see it right away. Reported this to Halcro about a year ago and was hoping that it would have been fixed in the last firmware update.

JBM,

Do you know if this will be fixed via firmware? Or is this a problem do to some hardware limitation with the HDMI board?

thebland

12-29-07, 09:50 AM

Dennis,

I am sure that my previous Halcro version did not clip balcks over HDMI. I run checks time and again. I know there were different gen of processing chips and/or software. It could have been another version (that wasn't on board my piece) that may have been problematic.

I would hope that this would get on the front burner now that all LPCM updated pieces will have this bug...

Dennis M

12-29-07, 10:15 AM

Think you may be right in that this may have been introduced with certain firmware versions. Can't quite remember exactly what my firmware version was before this update, # 21 or 23.
I have not gotten a definitive answer from Halcro if a fix is in the works for this. But if more people bring it up with their dealers we may see some movement on it.
Since you've meantioned that you did not have this problem before I'm thinking this is software related and will be fixed in an update.
Keeping my fingers crossed that it is sooner rather than later.

The MPCM upgrade for me has been very impressive. I've had to rewatch quite a few movies. :)
I agree with you the Cars Blu-ray is a sonic treat.
Have you watched Blade Runner yet? If not, your going to have fun with that one.

sfogg

12-29-07, 10:18 AM

Jeff,

"I ordered a HD FURY HDMI sink for the HDMI out on my Halcro. Terry had good luck with his acting as a sink, but with poor video quality.

I am looking forward to this as a HDMI connection is required for multi channel LPCM (thanks to HDCP)."

If you have a spare input on the Lumagen just use that. All inputs are always active and it would act as a sink to your Halcro.

Shawn

thebland

12-29-07, 10:20 AM

Shawn,

I tried that last night per your advice....THe Halcro would have none of it... THe soundfield quickly disappeared and went to 2 channel Thanks for the advice though... I think the Halcro has to somehow communicate with an active display. Even when I had my plasma powered down it would not sync. Only when I powered it on did the Halcro change over to multi channel LPCM....

GoodSonics

12-29-07, 10:53 AM

Dennis,

I spent the day yesterday with Gary from Halcro (Technical Services Manager). He was out to try to fix my upgraded SSP-100. I mentioned the BTB error posts here, and asked him to test it out. He said he would look into it.

Darrell

Think you may be right in that this may have been introduced with certain firmware versions. Can't quite remember exactly what my firmware version was before this update, # 21 or 23.
I have not gotten a definitive answer from Halcro if a fix is in the works for this. But if more people bring it up with their dealers we may see some movement on it.
Since you've meantioned that you did not have this problem before I'm thinking this is software related and will be fixed in an update.
Keeping my fingers crossed that it is sooner rather than later.

The MPCM upgrade for me has been very impressive. I've had to rewatch quite a few movies. :)
I agree with you the Cars Blu-ray is a sonic treat.
Have you watched Blade Runner yet? If not, your going to have fun with that one.

thebland

12-29-07, 11:09 AM

Throw in HD DVD Video Essentials or the regular DVD Video Essentials and go to the Setting the Brightness screen (or gray scale). You can demonstrate it to him... You'll NOT see the third vertical bar furthest to the sides on the screen. You'll only see 2 bars showing that BTB is missing. Gary is aware of it.

GoodSonics

12-29-07, 11:40 AM

Jeff,

Gary left yesterday, and I didn't have a copy of HD DVD Video Essentials, so I couldn't show him the issue. He said he would look into it when he got back home.

Darrell

sfogg

12-29-07, 01:00 PM

thebland

12-29-07, 01:19 PM

Hi Shawn,

What would you suggest?

...I plugged my Halcro HDMI out into HDMI 4 input of the Lumagen...But no dice - 2 ch LPCM (though the Halcro OSD shows Multi channel being input). As soon as I connected the Halcro out to my plasma, the system studdered, and the multi channel LPCM snapped into action. For whatever reason, the Halcro reverts to 2 channel LPCM when the display is not connected (or when it was connected to the Lumagen).

Is there an EDID solution in the Lumagen I should try?? I am sending a blank 1080i video signal to the Halcro from my Lumagen.

Dennis M

12-29-07, 03:01 PM

Dennis,

I spent the day yesterday with Gary from Halcro (Technical Services Manager). He was out to try to fix my upgraded SSP-100. I mentioned the BTB error posts here, and asked him to test it out. He said he would look into it.

Darrell

Thanks for bringing the issue up with Gary. I'm sure they are aware of it and will eventually address it. There are probably a few other things in the queue ahead of it since not to many people are complaining about it as yet.
Getting 1080p24 passthru support down is more of a priority right now.

thebland

12-29-07, 03:05 PM

I'm not sure i want 1080P24 pass through first if the blacks are getting crushed along the way. I would hope this is a high priority.

thebland

12-30-07, 09:58 AM

Jeff,

"I think the Halcro has to somehow communicate with an active display. Even when I had my plasma powered down it would not sync. Only when I powered it on did the Halcro change over to multi channel LPCM...."

The Lumagen is acting as an active display. The Halcro isn't really changing to MC LPCM on its own, the source is changing and the Halcro is switching in response to that. The question is why isn't the source spitting out MC LPCM in that situation? Likely still an EDID problem. The Halcro should not care what the display accepts for audio, it ought to be changing that part of the EDID anyway to what it supports itself.

Shawn
Shawn,

I may try this out again today - but slightly differently. I agree with you that your suggestion to plug into a Lumagen HDMI input should provide the sink I need...

First time around, I simply plugged in an HDMI cable from the Halcro out, to the Lumagen HDMI Input5 - without ever switching or activating it. Blu Ray is on HDMI Input1

I was wondering if FIRST activating/ switching to HDMI 5 on the Lumagen first so that the Halcro can be read the projector EDID (thru the Lumagen), that it may give the Halcro what it is looking for and lock on to it as a sink....Then, of course, switch the Lumagen HDMI input to the proper source input (e.g. Lumagen HDMI Input1 for BD).

Also, any changes in the Lumagen EDID settings that may help? I am set to ALWAYS--------USER EDID------HDMI ON / SPDIF ON. Would you recommned another set of settings?

My basic set up is: All sources into LUMAGEN, LUMAGEN HDMI OUT1 goes directly to my Projector, LUMAGEN HDMI OUT2 goes to the HALCRO INPUT1 and to get the MLPCM sound, needs to OUTPUT into the HDMI INPUT on my plasma...

Thanks for your continued help..:)