Which is why I'm skeptical of whether you were the first. The timeout on these channels could be 10 minutes, an hour, 24 hours, a week... .I guess that you just really want to be skeptical about SDV. All I can tell you is that it has worked well (done all of your above steps)within 2 sec - no difference than "full time" HD channels, every time that I tried it. :)

I'm a skeptical person :O) I'll stop dragging the thread off-topic though.

Is this the place to vent at TWC? I was a long time Comcast user until TWC took over and TWC is so bad i'm thinking about switching to satallite. Comcast was dependable with service and programming, TWC has LESS programming and service is horrendous. Picture goes out at least once a day, i have to unplug the set for 10 seconds then plug back in. Yesterday about 10 cities lost cable for half the day. I'm in the L.A area and pay over $150 month for this crap. Less programming, less features, more cable outages means TWC is history. I have always preferred cable but not if it's TWC.

Is this the place to vent at TWC?

Not really...take some time to read the first post.

Is this the place to vent at TWC? I was a long time Comcast user until TWC took over and TWC is so bad i'm thinking about switching to satallite. Comcast was dependable with service and programming, TWC has LESS programming and service is horrendous. Picture goes out at least once a day, i have to unplug the set for 10 seconds then plug back in. Yesterday about 10 cities lost cable for half the day. I'm in the L.A area and pay over $150 month for this crap. Less programming, less features, more cable outages means TWC is history. I have always preferred cable but not if it's TWC.

More likely HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=306411&page=1&pp=60)
.
You are not alone! I've never thought about satellite, until now.

Start-Over is just starting up here in Rochester. We are supposed to be the 2nd market to get it. It is supposed to be available in my neighboorhood sometime today - but I just tried and it is apparently not enabled yet. As I understand it, it will just be available for all programs (TW needs agreement from the program suppliers) and/or stations. There are also specific limitations (must tune in while program is still on, can't FF past commercials [but can pause and RW]). I don't (yet) know if they are doing HD.

It is nice to have it available, at least on some channels/programs. Handy if you're channel surfing It's been live in Columbia, SC for several months now. At present it is solely SD content.


On another note... Diana, happy to see you still navigate these occasionally choppy waters! :D

Hello,

Some of you may already be familiar with me as the Director of Marketing for Video Services in the South Carolina Division of Time Warner Cable. As of November 1, 2006 I will transition to a new responsibility as Director of Video Product Management in the corporate office in Stamford, CT. In this new role I will be concentrating on our new interactive programming guide (Mystro Digital Navigator), SDV, Digital Simulcast, HD and other associated video product developments.

I am starting a new thread with the specific thought to receive customer input on what consumers would like to see TWC provide through the video product. I will be posting questions and looking for input that can help us shape our video product development.

Here are a couple of topics I will not respond to:

* specific questions concerning programming launches

* specific questions as to why one Division of TWC may have a channel that another Division may not

* specific requests for service assistance

* postings which have the sole purpose of denigrating TWC


Please also know that while I'm inviting your opinion, I am offering ZERO promises that something you suggest may ever end up on our video offerings.

I look forward to a productive partnership!Currently I am an Albany Time Warner Digital Cable subscriber who has been paying his cable bill on time every month for the past 25 years. Since I purchased my first HDTV during 2001 and because of my experience with TWs support for one-way CableCARDs combined with your company's draconian DRM policies that treat honest consumers like some kind of digital pirate, I've managed to pare my cable bill down from $150 to $75 per month. Currently, I use Verizon DSL + their wireless phone service and Verizon FiOS cable has been installed on my street. The day Verizon FiOS TV becomes available in my area... I will be switching providers... perhaps for nothing more than spite.

So... what will Time Warner do to keep me as a customer? How about updating your SA8300 DVR?

TimeWarner's great out here in LA so far except for the confusion about what number if any you can call for Customer Service. I'm saving money over my Comcast bill I had in Boston, I've got more channels, and the internet reliability and speed is comparable.

Currently I am an Albany Time Warner Digital Cable subscriber who has been paying his cable bill on time every month for the past 25 years. Since I purchased my first HDTV during 2001 and because of my experience with TWs support for one-way CableCARDs combined with your company's draconian DRM policies that treat honest consumers like some kind of digital pirate, I've managed to pare my cable bill down from $150 to $75 per month. Currently, I use Verizon DSL + their wireless phone service and Verizon FiOS cable has been installed on my street. The day Verizon FiOS TV becomes available in my area... I will be switching providers... perhaps for nothing more than spite.

So... what will Time Warner do to keep me as a customer? How about updating your SA8300 DVR?
1) It is not TW that is imposing "draconian DRM policies" - it is the content owners.
2) According to a critical viewer on another AVS thread, FiOS TV is no better (probably worse) in quality than he had with cable (Comcast in his case). So don't be so sure that FiOS will solve anything (other than satisfy your unreasonable spite).

1) It is not TW that is imposing "draconian DRM policies" - it is the content owners.
2) According to a critical viewer on another AVS thread, FiOS TV is no better (probably worse) in quality than he had with cable (Comcast in his case). So don't be so sure that FiOS will solve anything (other than satisfy your unreasonable spite).I'm confident the cable MSOs can exert some influence over the content providers regarding DRM. My opinion is cable companies have basically paid lip-service to the FCC regarding the implementation of an OpenCable environment in order to prevent the subscriber from having a choice of plug & play DCR devices rather than being forced to use the STBs that are offered by their cable company.

So how about a new DVR from TW?

I've been using their SA8300 for about four years, which make this product rather antiquated when compared to current A/V technology.

No one likes a monopoly... and the best thing to occur for TW Cable subscribers is Verizon FiOS TV. ;) A little competition is a good thing. :)

I have a question regarding unencrypted availability of QAM channels. My local market, Buffalo, just started a new pricing polkicy where digital is less expensive than regular analog. When I asked the local rep if the digital channels would be available via QAM he responded that he didn't know what QAM is...

Any thoughts?

I have a question regarding unencrypted availability of QAM channels. My local market, Buffalo, just started a new pricing polkicy where digital is less expensive than regular analog. When I asked the local rep if the digital channels would be available via QAM he responded that he didn't know what QAM is...

Any thoughts?
That seems to be pretty typical of cable CSRs - they have no idea of what their employer is providing! FCC rules state that any local OTA channels carried not be encrypted! So they can't prevent you from receiving CBS HD, for example, by plugging your cable into your QAM equipped TV without a cable card. Now, TNTHD, DiscoveryHD, etc. is an entirely different matter. They can put those on any tier, encrypt them and charge whatever they like.

I'm curious what you mean about a "new pricing policy where digital is less expensive than regular analog". That seems odd. Basic analog cable is usually around $8-$9/month. It's hard to see where digital cable will be less than that. Perhaps, they have some special where digital is less than expanded basic (usually in the $30-40/month range). Or are they talking about packages where a STB (Set Top Box) is involved. I'm sure that they are trying to get rid of the old analog STBs so that they can drop a lot of the bandwidth hogging analog channels.

When I asked the local rep if the digital channels would be available via QAM he responded that he didn't know what QAM is...Any thoughts?

And there was at least one example quoted on here of someone calling a cable company and, when they said they couldn't receive any channels via QAM, was advised to call QAM for assistance...... :rolleyes:

Fact is, the people in the call centres do a difficult job. Any job where you deal with the public WILL present its own challenges. However, the public are rather more "clued-up" than they were, say, 20 years ago, and the people handling the calls need appropriate training or support to deal with exactly that kind of question.

Actually, the issue really is the contents of the database that the CSR uses. Cable companies (in general) don't seem to want to include QAM in that - they want to sell more advanced features and naked QAM (or even with CableCards) don't support that.

Sorry for the diversion, because this thread is all about gathering input to increase the value to the consumer of those advanced features (which I, for one, love).

By basic cable I meant the regular Ch2 -70 variety without a box. TW just took over from Adelphia and the price for digital cable is now $1 lower than what I am curretnly paying (no doubt to get more cable boxes out there for VOD). If I went to a box I would get an addiitional 20 or so channels for less money. But I have a QAM enabled TV in an armoire with no room for a box. So I keep asking them why these additional channels can be open via QAM.

And my apologies if this is considered a thread hijack. I was just hoping the TW person who started the thread might see it. Whenever I email the local support I get the same guy and the same answer. He doesn't even realize that I can get the HD locals without a box... and refuses to believe me when I say I can.

5-8 years ago I recall that "digital service" carried an additional premium. Now, AFAIK there is no way to get "analog" service, it's all digital. TWC's pricing seems to centralize around packages, and all of them are digital based. AND I think it's in the MSOs big interest to see their analog transmissions "go away." My firmly rooted in the past parents had analog service... despite the fact they got a digital box a few years ago when their old box malfunctioned. I found out that at some point, that analog cable service was going to be discontinued. For almost 2 years I tried to get them to shift their account to digital, all it meant was one phone call, they had the right box already AND they'd get "more stuff" as soon as they changed the account. Finally it happened... oh, there was no cost differential, well I think their monthly bill went down by a quarter or so.

well I think their monthly bill went down by a quarter or so.This can only mean that worlds are about to collide! :D

TWC has been a COLLOSAL SCREWUP since they officially took over here about 4 weeks ago in NW Pennsylvania(Near Hermitage,PA).

Especially for me.

My analog service quality has gone to spit on certain channels. My digital signal for CLEAR QAM coming to the house DISAPPEARED the evening they did the switchover from Adelphia, and has never returned(what I mean is that there is now NO DIGITAL SIGNAL PERIOD coming into the house. The signal meter on my LG LST-4200A for a digital signal from the cable company is NON-EXISTENT)

Even after reporting it(and the guy I talked too was knowlegable and friendly. I will give him that) they NEVER came out to check anything. I even suggested coming out with an addressable converter box to show the technician that there is now NO DIGITAL CABLE SIGNAL coming into the house after there switchover. Nothing.

This either looks like a bunch of headaches for me in the future with this company, who so far seem LOUSY!!! to me. They are puching me to either one of the satellite companies for immediate change, or to wait until Verizon FIOS arrives(possibly by 1 QRT Jan. 2008 for me) and then leave.

I never bought into alot of the trash talk about Time Warner Cable. I looked at as people being overly harsh to them. I had my problems with Adelphia, but they were few and far between, and were resolved immediately.

TWC has so far given me the impression of a collosal waste of time of a company. Ever since they took over near me, there has been nothing but problems, and issues, with NO RESOLUTIONS, which is the biggest problem IMHO.

And that is really sad. No wonder people are fed up. I now know why first hand, unfortunately.

My digital signal for CLEAR QAM coming to the house DISAPPEARED the evening they did the switchover from Adelphia, and has never returned(what I mean is that there is now NO DIGITAL SIGNAL PERIOD coming into the house. The signal meter on my LG LST-4200A for a digital signal from the cable company is NON-EXISTENT)

Even after reporting it(and the guy I talked too was knowlegable and friendly. I will give him that) they NEVER came out to check anything. I even suggested coming out with an addressable converter box to show the technician that there is now NO DIGITAL CABLE SIGNAL coming into the house after there switchover. Nothing. I'm having the same problem with Albany Time Warner Cable. I thought the local stations had to be sent unencrypted with TWs digital tier... but I guess the rules don't apply to Time Warner.This either looks like a bunch of headaches for me in the future with this company, who so far seem LOUSY!!! to me. They are puching me to either one of the satellite companies for immediate change, or to wait until Verizon FIOS arrives(possibly by 1 QRT Jan. 2008 for me) and then leave.I dropped Time Warner’s broadband Internet service and switched to Verizon DSL. There are going to be a lot of TiVo Series 3 owners who will be mad as hornets when Time Warner migrates to SDV (http://lw.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Display.cfm?Section=Archives&Subsection=Display&ARTICLE_ID=148204&KEYWORD=A-PON) in order to conserve bandwidth, which will obsolete DCR devices with one-way CableCARDs.I never bought into alot of the trash talk about Time Warner Cable. I looked at as people being overly harsh to them. I had my problems with Adelphia, but they were few and far between, and were resolved immediately.

TWC has so far given me the impression of a collosal waste of time of a company. Ever since they took over near me, there has been nothing but problems, and issues, with NO RESOLUTIONS, which is the biggest problem IMHO.

And that is really sad. No wonder people are fed up. I now know why first hand, unfortunately.I predict Verizon FiOS TV will be the panacea of the Cable industry. Competition will force Time Warner to provide better service and customer support in order to retain it's subscriber base.

Ha, no wonder we aren't seeing much of Diana around this thread. It seems to have morphed into a compendium of complaints against the company, not a communication of what video services we'd like to see implemented.

It's time to get back to what this thread was set up for.To improve TWC not bash it.Let's try to keep it at a constructive level.If you want to bash TWC call your local office.My TWC office here in Greensboro gives good service and responds to my complaints.Lets get back and use the thread to improve TWC and not bash them.I am in no way connected to them but am just a long standing customer. SARA 1.87.24

OK, how about a new DVR from TW... is that too much to ask for?

I'm having the same problem with Albany Time Warner Cable. I thought the local stations had to be sent unencrypted with TWs digital tier... but I guess the rules don't apply to Time Warner. The rules DO apply to TW as well - but I wonder if something else is going on: Did TW reorganize the digital channels? Depending on your set, this could have been done, and you, and steelersrule have no way to know it. I'd suggest a rescan, you each may well find that the local HD channels will show up on a different QAM channel. Cable customers with the cable provided STB automatically handle changes like this as the cable company has control over an internal channel map (when you select channel 110, it knows to tune to the QAM on 533MHz and select the 3rd bitstream). They download new maps overnight, at the same time changing QAM channel assignments on what they send out.

Cable companies in general (not just TW) do not encourage their customers to have direct connects for digital channels (many cable CSR's have no idea what "QAM" means). While some maintain that this is because they want to force you to take a more expensive solution, the truth is that they have a major support problem with QAM tuners on different HDTV sets. Each TV manufacturer has their own way of setting up to receive QAM channels, and it is impractical for the cable companies to be able to support each one.

This "inattention" to this segment is unfortunate, because when they do a massive reassignment of QAM channels they usually neglect to notify customers and to properly equip their CSRs with information on dealing with the problem.

OK, how about a new DVR from TW... is that too much to ask for?And what would you like:
external HD capability so customer can expand storage?
compatability with SDV?
ability to record dual programs?
That's all there NOW on the SA8300.

Or is it new software features that enhance usability? That's what most of us think that Diana is trying to do. (TW bashing does not help).

It could be that TWC has, after the Adelphia debacle, gone from trying to fine tune and improve, to getting back on track. My guess is it's now all hands on deck and bells are clanging at TWC.

The rules DO apply to TW as well - but I wonder if something else is going on: Did TW reorganize the digital channels? Depending on your set, this could have been done, and you, and steelersrule have no way to know it. I'd suggest a rescan, you each may well find that the local HD channels will show up on a different QAM channel. Cable customers with the cable provided STB automatically handle changes like this as the cable company has control over an internal channel map (when you select channel 110, it knows to tune to the QAM on 533MHz and select the 3rd bitstream). They download new maps overnight, at the same time changing QAM channel assignments on what they send out.

Cable companies in general (not just TW) do not encourage their customers to have direct connects for digital channels (many cable CSR's have no idea what "QAM" means). While some maintain that this is because they want to force you to take a more expensive solution, the truth is that they have a major support problem with QAM tuners on different HDTV sets. Each TV manufacturer has their own way of setting up to receive QAM channels, and it is impractical for the cable companies to be able to support each one.

This "inattention" to this segment is unfortunate, because when they do a massive reassignment of QAM channels they usually neglect to notify customers and to properly equip their CSRs with information on dealing with the problem.

davehancock,

Good suggestion, but that is not my issue with the digital signal. I have rescanned, and alot of other possible causes.

But the digital signal coming from my cable line simply DISAPPEARED the night they did the switchover about 4 weeks ago.

Meaning, if looked at a signal bar from a digital source(My LG LST-4200A has a signal bar, used for OTA/ATSC and CLEAR QAM/CADTV. Whichever is selected) from my cable connection(simply plugging in the RG6 cable into the LG LST-4200A) there is now NO DIGITAL SIGNAL on the signal bar at all.

Look at it this way. If you connected a battery to a meter it would register a signal. If you connected it too a DEAD BATTERY, it would register nothing. The needle would not move, and this is what I have now.

Like somebody forgot to flip a switch, or something burned out or blew up, that sends the digital signal to my house.

Even if an addressable box was brought to my house, the digital channels would never appear because there is now no digital signal coming into the house. The analog/NTSC/Channels 1-125 would come in, but no digital.

Since I am not a digital customer, and am looking for the CLEAR QAM(I have gone to my local thread, and they are still there for customers it appears from the local cable company) I guess the cable people either consider me LOW or NO PRIORITY, and this is what makes me angry. I pay my bills on time, always have. TWC has treated me, and alot of other people in my area(go to my local thread), pretty SHABILLY since they took over, and people are beginning to get upset. As well they should.

And people, there is nothing wrong with constructive criticism of a company. Just because all of us here are not giving TWC hugs and kisses in our posts, doesn't mean that what we say is not for there people to hear.

You say we should get back to asking what they can do to improve things?

How about answering your NEW(for the moment) customers complaints?

How about, I dont know, maybe training your CSR'S a little better to serve the public/community better?

And if there are going to be bumps in the road, why not try informing your paying customers; "Hey, since we are doing a transition, there are going to be problems. We will do our best to resolve them quickly and conviently. Hopefully with a few months, the major problems will be behind us, and we will be able to better serve you not only in the immediate future, but in the distant future as well."

Gee, is that CRAZY!?

Why not trying to call your customers, or place surveys in your billing, to let your local office know how people think they are doing?

Afraid of the responses?

Well locally for me here in NW PA, they really SHOULD BE!

And there is nothing wrong with that.

Maybe Lisa is high enough up in the food chain, where she could contact some local manager or something to certain group/area, and say "Hey, you guys are getting blasted where you are at. You might want to get on the ball."

Maybe Lisa is high enough up in the food chainWho is "Lisa"? Are you referring to Diana Smith perchance?

And you didn't expect that to happen????

I'm sure Diana can weed out the good and bad, but some of the more recent posts probably give her pause about posting. I suspect she's gotten what she was after already. There hasn't been an on-topic post for quite awhile now, has there? :)

Question for Diane.Will the Navigator have keyword search as well as title search.Also any info on deployment?Thanks for your help.

And what would you like:
external HD capability so customer can expand storage?
compatability with SDV?
ability to record dual programs?
That's all there NOW on the SA8300.

Or is it new software features that enhance usability? That's what most of us think that Diana is trying to do. (TW bashing does not help).A current generation DVR with an updated dual-tuner, MPEG encoder/decoder and scaler/deinterlacer that supports 1080p would be nice.

A current generation DVR with an updated dual-tuner, MPEG encoder/decoder and scaler/deinterlacer that supports 1080p would be nice.SA8300 has all of this except 1080p (and there is no broadcast standard for 1080p).

Who is "Lisa"? Are you referring to Diana Smith perchance?

Whoops!

My bad.

I meant Diana.

My only other experience is with Dish Network's DVR. In fact, I left cable many years ago since TWC San Antonio did not have a DVR at the time. Getting a HDTV in September prompted me coming back to cable.

The first and most annoying issue I have with the current guide is you cannot remove channels from the listing. I have to wade though hundreds of channels I don't subscribe to, or would never watch - ie spanish. I understand the marketing aspect of showing all the possible channels and hoping customers will want to add/upgrade the service, but I assure you, the majority of people would rather be able to only show the channels they want to see.
With Dish Network's DVRs, you could repeatedly press the 'guide' button and toggle from...
all possible channels
all subscribed channels
one of three (or four?) nameable, custom listings - one for me, one for my wife, etc.
If you press 'guide' once, it shows the last viewed listing
This was the first thing I called to complain about the day cable was installed - the rep understood and agreed as he had a Dish Network box in the past and new exactly what I was talking about.

Secondly, when watching a recorded program, if you change channels or switch to another recorded program, you have to start over from the begining. With Dish, the DVR would assume you want to continue watching a program where you left off - much more logical and easier to use.

FYI I have an 8300HD with SARA 1.88.12.a100

FYI I have an 8300HD with SARA 1.88.12.a100Welcome to the wonderful world of SARA. Fortunately, these are not insurmountable problems, but they do make you change the way you watch recordings to avoid those pitfalls. I would hope that Navigator would continue to use Bookmarks to keep track of where you are in a given recording. I don't stop, switch, and restart recordings, so I don't have that problem with SARA, but I understand others watch TV differently than I do. :)

SA8300 has all of this except 1080p (and there is no broadcast standard for 1080p).You must work for Time Warner. :eek: I guess chip makers haven't made any advances during the past four years. :rolleyes: There are a lot of 1080p TV/monitors being produced, so why not release a box that up converts 1080i o 1080p?

Well, partly because those TVs already do that and there doesn't seem to be anything coming in the way of direct 1080p sources. Until cableco's/satco's plan to provide 1080p content, there is not much need for DVR makers to add that format, at least not in my opinion.

There is nothing wrong with suggesting an updated unit, however the statement was so general that it came across as simply another slam against the current units vice suggesting something with updated chipsets to provide 1080p, larger HDDs, better expansion capabilities, etc. Asking for dual-tuners, etc., when the current units already have that didn't seem like much of a request, but then maybe I just read it wrong. :)

Although I didn't comment originally, I pretty much thought the same thing as the "other" Dave, the 8300 and other DVRs already have all that. AFAIK, the Tivo S3 is the latest and it's internals are not significantly different than other DVRs. Come to think of it, I really haven't seen much info on newer chiptsets, etc., for DVRs.

Thank you Dave, and Optivity, I do not work for TW. The other Dave really said it all.

My only other experience is with Dish Network's DVR. In fact, I left cable many years ago since TWC San Antonio did not have a DVR at the time. Getting a HDTV in September prompted me coming back to cable.

The first and most annoying issue I have with the current guide is you cannot remove channels from the listing. I have to wade though hundreds of channels I don't subscribe to, or would never watch - ie spanish. I understand the marketing aspect of showing all the possible channels and hoping customers will want to add/upgrade the service, but I assure you, the majority of people would rather be able to only show the channels they want to see.
With Dish Network's DVRs, you could repeatedly press the 'guide' button and toggle from...
all possible channels
all subscribed channels
one of three (or four?) nameable, custom listings - one for me, one for my wife, etc.
If you press 'guide' once, it shows the last viewed listing
This was the first thing I called to complain about the day cable was installed - the rep understood and agreed as he had a Dish Network box in the past and new exactly what I was talking about.

Secondly, when watching a recorded program, if you change channels or switch to another recorded program, you have to start over from the begining. With Dish, the DVR would assume you want to continue watching a program where you left off - much more logical and easier to use.

FYI I have an 8300HD with SARA 1.88.12.a100There are workarounds for your problems.

First, you can go directly to any channel in the program guide by entering the channel number. If it has less digits than the max digits for your cable system you can press enter after you key in the digits and it will go there immediately otherwise there will be a short delay. If it has the max digits for your cable system don't press enter, it will go there automatically. If you press enter, it will switch to that channel on your TV and terminate the guide. When you get the new Digital Navigator guide you should be able to select the channels you want to see.

Second, it does remember where you are in the last recorded program that you watch but this is only the last recorded program. You can channel surf then just switch back to your playback channel and your program will be paused where you left it. If you want to watch a different recorded program, you can press stop and see how much time you have watched and how much time is left. When you get back to the original program just fast forward to that point to continue.

Hey Diana, any word on the TWC markets getting SDV and when?

Also, it would be a nice addition if one could pull up their guide on the internet (say at work or on vacation) and schedule a recording on thier DVR at home.

Also, it would be a nice addition if one could pull up their guide on the internet (say at work or on vacation) and schedule a recording on thier DVR at home.

agreed, this would be GREAT functionality. I typically set my favorite shows to 'series record' but I often find myself forgetting to record a one-time show or episode and wishing I could do it from my cubicle at work (which is where I pretty much live).

There are a lot of 1080p TV/monitors being produced, so why not release a box that up converts 1080i o 1080p?This is a common misunderstanding about upconversion: upconversion from stereo to 5.1, or 1080i to 1080p, doesn't add value because you're still hearing stereo sound or watching an interlaced broadcast. "Upconverting" is a poor term; "faking" is more appropriate.

The right way to do it is leave the signal as-is and let a high-end TV and speaker system do a high-end upconvert right before it displays - having the exact broadcasted content to work with. Otherwise you're at the whim of the quality of the box's upconvert, and if it's going to a TV with less than 1080 vertical lines or a speaker system with 7.1 sound, another conversion will have to happen, causing distortion.

This is a common misunderstanding about upconversion: upconversion from stereo to 5.1, or 1080i to 1080p, doesn't add value because you're still hearing stereo sound or watching an interlaced broadcast. "Upconverting" is a poor term; "faking" is more appropriate.Like all the 480i content being up converted to 720p/1080i and being passed off as HDTV. :rolleyes:

Diana are you still with us? Any new news on NAVIGATOR?

I would like to note that TW's customer service has been lacking (i.e. horrible) since the take over of Adelphia. I have always been a TWC customer (never Adelphia) and shouldn't be affected by the take over in my opinion. I recently received an incorrect bill and spent nearly 3 hours on-hold trying to get the problem sorted! I went out to my local branch CS office and spent nearly an hour in-line! There simply are not enouph employees. Plus, I've gotten told by my a local tech support contact that TW simply doesn't have the required money to purchase new STB's. We are stuck with outdated, nearly obsolete SA boxes then have been on the market for multiple years, lack features, modern outputs, and have terrible SARA software. Again, I was told this was caused by the Adelphia take over. Not something that should be happening.

I would like to note that TW's customer service has been lacking (i.e. horrible) since the take over of Adelphia. I have always been a TWC customer (never Adelphia) and shouldn't be affected by the take over in my opinion. I recently received an incorrect bill and spent nearly 3 hours on-hold trying to get the problem sorted! I went out to my local branch CS office and spent nearly an hour in-line! There simply are not enouph employees. Plus, I've gotten told by my a local tech support contact that TW simply doesn't have the required money to purchase new STB's. We are stuck with outdated, nearly obsolete SA boxes then have been on the market for multiple years, lack features, modern outputs, and have terrible SARA software. Again, I was told this was caused by the Adelphia take over. Not something that should be happening.

Ever see a chain store that had a few successful stores, expand wildly with enthusiasm. Then come crashing down into bankruptcy. It's called biting off more than you can chew. Me thinks TWC is in the middle of that scenario right now.
Sad but true.

Diana - don't know if you're still monitoring this thread.....

A relatively large number of us on "Passport" are using the recently activated SATA feature and have purchased hard drives & enclosures for that purpose (to expand the too-small storage capacity of the 8300). The folks on the SARA platform have had that feature for quite some time. Please let "the powers that be" know that this feature needs to continued to be activated (even if not officially "supported" *wink*) on the new "Navigator" software platform. Please don't take that away from us.

Additionally, it would be nice if firewire (IEEE1394) support was included as well (the 8300 has 2 of those jacks, but no software support for that hardware). Some of us have D-VHS decks as well, and without firewire support in the software platform, they're just expensive paperweights.

My guess is that Diana also notices (as I do) that the thread kinda got into a bitch-fest at all the wrongs TWC perpetrates on it's poor customers rather than ideas of what we wanted in the IPG. As anyone with a brain could have known everything that was mentioned, I think her purpose was to see how many wanted each "thing."

She did do a survey post of her impressions and while I'd like the SATA support to be number one by a mile, it was tied for the lead. So I think they are well aware of what a terrible mess the current implementation is and that customers want better. I just hope they don't go with crappy, pre-alpha software like they have now!

lol, a bitchfest about TWC? nahhh. ill say this ive been all over the country, from one side to the other and back, a lot. time warner has the most issues, the shittiest programing and the wost customer service ive ever dealt with. im building a home in twc territory and have been begging a local cable company to offer programming and service but alas twc has the monopoly and sadly most of the people in the town are hicks and dont care about overpriced services that when they do work are shite.

ive got twc dig cable and road runner broadband now and the only reason ive got it is that im not paying for it. twc wouldn't have so many issues if they actually listened to the consumer once in awhile. its like with any product or service, discussions should be open to problems and if twc gave a rats ass about the issues they would listen and not just dismiss them as "well i dont have to listen".

ive got a 2400 sq ft home with five bedrooms, one of which will be a ht and the whole house will be connected with cat 5 and wireless. i called twc since im getting close to closing just to see what their prices where and what service they offer... first off i got someone that sounded like they were fresh off the boat, not sure what language they were trying to speak but it wasn't english. i asked to speak to someone i could understand and that person HUNG UP ON ME. called back and got another moron guy that told me that where im building doesn't get broadband. uh huh, interesting since i can look it up on there site it says yes. he told me what mediocre HD programming they have and when i told him i wasn't interested that i could at least get OTA HD locals he told me that it is "impossible to get a HD signal thru the air and he had just been to training that told them all about this..." yeah, i was born at nite but not last nite idiot. im sure they get a lot of added sales with that pitch seeing as how most people im sure dont know.

i continued to ask about broadband speeds, future HD channels, etc. was told that what they had was it and i could take it or leave it. he proceeded to bash dsl (and i could care less but still very unprofessional) then told me that dish and directv had the same HD programming and it was more expensive and i couldn't get high speed internet from them anyway. lol. by the end of the conversation i let him finish and then ask him if they were hiring, he paused and asked why. i told him that even though im a PT i could do his job and mine at the same time and STILL be more competent. i asked for a supervisor and low and behold i got hung up on again...

each and every company has its moments, charter had really bad broadband for awhile, comcast digital boxes were junk for a few years, etc. in my experiences having had just about every major company twc has been hands down the least progressive and quickest to raise rates without offering added value in services, internet speed, etc.

i called when i moved here three mos ago. i asked about the future HD programing and what they are looking to offer. nothing. no "well we are expanding it all the time blah blah" just nothing. i asked about increased internet speed, nothing. i take that back, i got a "well i dont know anything about that high speed internet..." geezus, am i talking to daisy mae in friggin dog patch? most companies offer to let you know, send out a mailer or AT LEAST but you on hold and ask a supervisor. nope, nothing. other than an i dont give a **** attitude.

bottom line for me is that i will get some type of sat service and pay less for it. ill get dsl and yes it wont be as fast but ill pay less for it and ill get a reg analog phone and it wont be as clear and yes i will pay less for it too. it twc wanted my business they would have acted like it but they have failed to show any interest what so ever. and its not like this is a new issue, i asked around at the hospital and the other facility i work at. just to see what everyone else has. 1/10 had twc and they all had twc at one time and dropped it. seems they just care about getting paid and thats just fine, i wont be paying them anything.

jp

ill get dsl and yes it wont be as fast but ill pay less for itMy rock solid DSL connection provides better service, for less money, than Time Warner's broadband up/down connection ever did.

Time Warner's days of the monopoly status quo are numbered now that FiOS TV is being rolled out.

i rented a house when i was stationed in washington state and it had fios. best year of surfing ive ever had. sadly its not available where im building, i called when i first moved here. dsl isnt bad per say, its not 8mbs downs but hey at least the bill wont come with a jar of vaseline and instructions to bend over.

jp

_jp, how much did fios run you a month, and what all did you get with it?

IIRC, the service was already in the house and i was the first occupant in it after the husband and wife had the service put in. i was there for a year and a half and told them since i was signing the lease for that long i would pay half the install cost back to them and the monthly rate. think it was around 80$ a month for 5-8mbps. not impressive by todays standards but back then it was blazing. this was back in 01, end of 02 and the service was pretty spendy but the speeds were nuts and it was new stuff then.

service now is really inexpensive, a buddy has it in arizona and i think he pays around 40$ a month for 10mbps downs. the site is:

http://www22.verizon.com/content/ConsumerFios/

my experience with them was nothing but positive. the techs are all very well trained and if you have a tech issue they have their own contact center where they again know there stuff. wish the entire country had this as an option, cable companies wouldn't get the free reign to screw the consumer as they would have to actually be competitive.

jp

Why are you complaining about TWC's 8mbps for 40$ then? I'm confused about your beef with TWC.

In Rocheste, NY, TW Roadrunner just went to 10mbps. :D

Standard rr dave?

Standard rr dave?Yes (but still the lame upload speed though).

They've been doing a bunch of advanced stuff here (SDV, Start-Over) - I wouldn't be surprised this really is related to network architecture changes.

BTW, phone company here is small and struggling - no FiOS for Rochester in sight.

Here is Link to local site (http://www.rochesterhdtv.com/showpost.php?p=26450&postcount=36) with examples.

We had that same great service in South Carolina where I moved away from beginning of this year. Unfortunately where we moved is an adelphia area, but TWC is improving it as time goes on. I'm looking forward to getting the same TWC service we had down south.

Yeh,

I think that a lot of stuff started in Diana's area (where is she anyhow - she hasn't posted in over a month) and is migrating elsewhere. According to some news reports earlier this year, Rochester is sort of the 2nd Beta area (after SC).

Why are you complaining about TWC's 8mbps for 40$ then? I'm confused about your beef with TWC.

wtf? did you read the post? reading is your friend.

i was telling the guy that posted above me my experience with fios since i had it long ago and answering his question.

my "beef" with twc is the ****** programming, well unless you count the 10 spanish only channels they have added in the last year and a half. sorry, id like to watch tv in the OFFICAL LANGUAGE OF THE USA which last time i checked was English.

other beefs are inferior products such as their rr broadband service that is always jacked up in my area but they always seem to have a rate increase. then they base the increase on "equipment upgrades". funny thing is they never upgrade broadband speeds, they never add channels, no new HD programming, ****** old digi cable boxes, never have dvr boxes, never have hd boxes, etc.

if you would have read the thread you would have understood....

jp

Ok, I'm officially done talking with any idiot like _jp....what a moron. 75 posts and I'll guarantee most of them are worthless.

Yeh,

I think that a lot of stuff started in Diana's area (where is she anyhow - she hasn't posted in over a month) and is migrating elsewhere. According to some news reports earlier this year, Rochester is sort of the 2nd Beta area (after SC).

Diana's been pretty wrapped up with moving, and meetings. I talked to her a couple weeks ago on here, and she said she's been travelling a lot, but will be back on here when things settle down. She did have TWCSC running nice though. We always got to try out the latest stuff down there. It was fun.

In Rocheste, NY, TW Roadrunner just went to 10mbps. :D

standard here is 5mbps (yank yank) for 44.95 and there upgrade package is 9.95 more per month for 8mbps. my company is paying the 55$ for the "turbo" pkg now and im lucky if i get 6-7. in the beginning i was told i needed to talk to there level 3 support, those guys and girls are friggin clueless with a capital C.

one guy told me it was my laptop causing the service to be slow then he told me its cause i was using my own WRT300N instead of the crappy little rca dcm425 they left me. they have wiped out my mac addy three times and keep blaming it on me. they say since im using my own equipment someone might come along and erase my mac address since the technician left me a twc modem. UH WTF???

there is a little local company but twc outbid them and they cant offer service to my development now. shame too since they had a pkg that was 10mbps for 40$ per month with other services like HD.

ive called twc repeatedly and they said they will not be upgrading RR or any other service for the foreseeable future. i asked just for a ballpark on time... 3-5 years... %!^&.

jp

ok there mr mom, dont get your panties in a bunch!

Ok, I'm officially done talking with any idiot like _jp....what a moron. 75 posts and I'll guarantee most of them are worthless.

wtf? boy "marky mark", lol. wake up on the wrong side of the rock this morning?
YOUR the one that asked about the fios... if you read the post you wouldn't have gotten owned for sounded like an idiot. :D and what does post count have to do with anything? im sorry "marky" i do work and i just cant be on here like you are all day. in between changing diapers and all. when your doing that im with my patients, sorry your felling bad about your career decision. yes my post count is low and im currently in a 12 step program to fix that. and im glad your done! now run along to your working wife tell her to kiss your boo boo and it will all be alright. your more than welcome to pm if you have any other issues you would like to discuss. bring your buckeye can down to NC anytime you feel froggy! :cool:

jp

ok there mr mom, dont get your panties in a bunch!



wtf? boy "marky mark", lol. wake up on the wrong side of the rock this morning?
YOUR the one that asked about the fios... if you read the post you wouldn't have gotten owned for sounded like an idiot. :D and what does post count have to do with anything? im sorry "marky" i do work and i just cant be on here like you are all day. in between changing diapers and all. when your doing that im with my patients, sorry your felling bad about your career decision. yes my post count is low and im currently in a 12 step program to fix that. and im glad your done! now run along to your working wife tell her to kiss your boo boo and it will all be alright. your more than welcome to pm if you have any other issues you would like to discuss. bring your buckeye can down to NC anytime you feel froggy! :cool:

jp

Proved my point :p I hope to god you aren't a doctor... at least not with sane patients...

what point? are you high or just stupid? seeing as how you asked the initial question you must be one of the two.

jp

sorry, id like to watch tv in the OFFICAL LANGUAGE OF THE USA which last time i checked was English. But you apparently don't know how to use it! The last time I checked, all sentences in the official language of the USA started with a capital letter. You apparently can't be bothered to use the English language correctly. (Or did you forget how?)
if you would have read the thread you would have understood....I don't know about Marky_Mark, but it is difficult to read your junk when you can't be bothered to type it properly!

lmao....don't be jealous of me _jp....I just married right...oh yeah, you couldn't find anyone who'd have you. At least I hope no woman ever makes that mistake.

Yeah Dave, I was going to mention his english, but I decided to let it go.

Diana please come home.Help get the thread back on the track it was intended to be as a customer portal to Time Warner to improve Navigator.To critic TWC is fair to bash it stupid.We all want a great Navigator and should work to improve it.Valid critism should be accepted by TWC by bashing is only venting with no real outcome but makeing Diana ignore this thread.I implore all to read the first entry why the thread was set up and lets get back to it the orginal purpose.

Diana, hope the move is going well.
If they don't appreciate you there, don't forget how much you are missed in SC.

Will be nice to see this thread get back on track.

I don't think it's Diana's job to moderate this flame war and whine fest - it's the membership's. Please, if you're just here to whine or tell someone about your problems with them, take it somewhere else and off this board. It's useful to have the ear of someone who provides your cable and internet to, and it would be a shame to lose it (perhaps as we have here) because some can't act like an adult.

So who's "bright idea" was it to get rid of INHD2 and replace it with MTV-HD :eek: and the up-convert nonsense being shown on A&E-HDlite? :rolleyes:

Optivity, I believe INHD decided to quit INHD2.

That may be the case... but Time Warner replaced one channel I watch with (3) that I don't... makes sense to me. :rolleyes:

I know. Is your INHD2 already gone? I still have it as far as I know on my TWC. I haven't had anything added yet either.

Is your INHD2 already gone?It's gone... kaput. What bothers me most is INHD2 did a beautiful job delivering 1080i content and now I'm getting the pretend up-converted stuff on A&E-HDlite instead. :rolleyes:

One might conclude that Time Warner is totally oblivious to the fact that their days of monopoly CATV control are numbered in the northeast. I've got Verizon FiOS on my street and as soon as FiOS TV is available I'll give it a try.

When was the last time Time Warner issued a new DVR STB?

"In the last few months, a host of new set tops have been released, including the TiVo series3, DirectTV's HR-20, and Dish's ViP622." (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2075118,00.asp)

It seems like Time Warner is so fat, dumb & happy... they don't realize a tidal wave of subscriber resentment will be sending them into Chapter 11 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapter_11) some day soon. ;)

FYI -> iN Demand will be merging INHD2 with INHD on January 1, 2007 according to iN Demand President & CEO Rob Jacobson. Some cable providers like Comcast have already dropped the channel or are in the process of doing so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INHD

I have been using HD service from TW in Rochester, NY. I was one of the first six people in TW Rochester using the HD-DVR initially the 8000HD and now the 8300HD.

On my new HD set downstairs I am also trying out a TW cable card.

Overall I agree with the previous postings regarding channel guide and listings. I would like to add a few other things for future products.I

First off I like the fact that the 8300HD DVR has both component and HDMI outputs. My older HD set has only component inputs. The newer set has HDMI. I would like the HDMI to also support 1080p resolution in addition to 1080i on the analog component inputs. Also the SATA drive support is great if I want to add capacity so please make sure that feature doesnt disappear. If possible it would be nice for the DVR to continue to operate with any programming available on the internal drive if the SATA drive were to become unavailable.

Second I am aware of the FCC ruling that HD set tops will have 1394 Firewire outputs for support of Digital VCR/VHS and other copying devices. Please make sure all new products offer this feature and also support HAVI and DTVLink specifications.
In addition please make sure this link will provide native MPEG2 streams in the original resolution of the digital program. If it was 1080 HD broadcast dont down convert the stream and let me "Copy to VCR" in native resolution on that link from the DVR.

Third I agree with bi-directional cable card support. I have 1394 on the new HD set and it would be simpler to have all features on the card. The only problem is that TW is blocking copying through copy protection on much of the content available for copying on DVR. If I can copy to the DVR I should be able to copy it to other digital media. Isnt there a 5C protocol that only allows 5 copies to be made? Also from the 1394 I should be able to copy from DVR to VCR any program the DVR is able to record.

Last I do seem to have some problems with the cable card losing configuration data making HD-HBO and other channels unavailable for periods of time. Also several HD channels in my area will not function without an in house amplifier.

As always more digital and HD programming in particular is always appreciated. I also agree that if I am already paying for a channel or tier then the corresponding On Demand channel should come with the package at no extra cost.

Thats it for now. Thank you very much for asking for this input. I have an inquiry into the local TW office for an 8300 HD DVR with 1394 but have not received a reply yet.

Many of the issues described in your post are the precise reasons I will no longer spend additional $$$$ on HD equipment until DRM and the lack of HD content problems are resolved.

So who's "bright idea" was it to get rid of INHD2 and replace it with MTV-HD :eek: and the up-convert nonsense being shown on A&E-HDlite? :rolleyes:

Over six thousand posts and you think TWC is responsible for what individual channels do? No wonder we probably will never hear from Diana again.

Over six thousand posts and you think TWC is responsible for what individual channels do? No wonder we probably will never hear from Diana again.No, but despite the lack of bandwidth Time Warner chooses to carry this channel, which is showing nothing in HD. :confused:

Explain that!

Diana could you let us know if Navigator dvr software will have the time channel recording option.I find this very useful.Also will manual recording still be available?

Could anyone who has Navigator let us know what recording options it has such as first run,all,time channel.Also are the manual recording option still available?

I just read about the new SA MCP-100 DVR with the DVD record in it. Does anyone know if TWC will be offering this anytime soon? Does ANY U.S. cable or satellite provider currently offer this?

AFAIK, not that anyone has heard or seen.

Your series record option are All and 1st Run. Thats it. No more picking record times. Like Passport had.

You can do a 1 time record of the show if it is playing in real time.

Ah, thanks for the data. Not so much times (Passport is weird about that, it isn't all that flexible) but picking a channel IS major. I have to assume that if you pick something on a specific channel, it WILL only pick up from that channel.

On a real quick read, I DO notice that it says 14 days... this is big because with Passport, one only has 6 days ahead, no more.

One real biggie for Passport folks involves the external drive support. Passport has a notorious bug whereby by the time you are recording to the external drive, you lose the ability to pause, rewind or fast forward "live" content. Like the phone rings, you pause it, you finish the phone call and pick up where you hit pause. Everyone seems to refer to this as the "trick play" bug, although I hate that term because we're talking about THE most basic allure of a DVR, the ability to pause and resume what you are watching. Yes, there are work-arounds, but they involve a LOT of work and many button presses to accomplish.

A longer term issue is that according to what I read, Passport cannot do SDV.

Of course, we DO know that there is no "customer" choice in any of this. Once they deploy it, that's it.

Oh, one final thought... it would not at all surprise me if certain features may only be available in certain areas.

Passport has a notorious bug whereby by the time you are recording to the external drive, you lose the ability to pause, rewind or fast forward "live" content. Like the phone rings, you pause it, you finish the phone call and pick up where you hit pause. Everyone seems to refer to this as the "trick play" bug, although I hate that term because we're talking about THE most basic allure of a DVR, the ability to pause and resume what you are watching. Yes, there are work-arounds, but they involve a LOT of work and many button presses to accomplish.



Incorrect. The pause and resume function works just fine for those using external drives under Passport.

Incorrect. The pause and resume function works just fine for those using external drives under Passport.

He is talking about 'trick play' - the ability to rewind a program that you had not previously chosen to record. It is well documented in the SA8300 eSATA thread that there are bugs with this and Passport when connecting an external drive.

xnappo

He is talking about 'trick play' - the ability to rewind a program that you had not previously chosen to record. It is well documented in the SA8300 eSATA thread that there are bugs with this and Passport when connecting an external drive.

xnappo

Nope. In his own words: "we're talking about THE most basic allure of a DVR, the ability to pause and resume what you are watching" (emphasis added). Rewind and Fastforward (the two functions that don't work under Passport) are obviously not the same as Pause and Resume.

Nope. In his own words: "we're talking about THE most basic allure of a DVR, the ability to pause and resume what you are watching" (emphasis added). Rewind and Fastforward (the two functions that don't work under Passport) are obviously not the same as Pause and Resume.

Not to waste space, but he mentions trick play in the previous sentence:
"Everyone seems to refer to this as the "trick play" bug, although I hate that term because we're talking about THE most basic allure of a DVR, the ability to pause and resume what you are watching."

And the sentence before that makes it clear he is talking about live content:
"Passport has a notorious bug whereby by the time you are recording to the external drive, you lose the ability to pause, rewind or fast forward "live" content."

Regardless of whether worded well, the point is that Passport has a "trick-play" issue with an external drive that SARA does not have.

xnappo

Diana why does Navigator not have a manual recording option or a time/channel option?

Diana why does Navigator not have a manual recording option or a time/channel option?

farther uptopic Diana stated that Navigator is a work-in-progress so i think it would be a mistake to assume that the present look and functionality is final. my guess is that they are rushing it out to the Passport systems so that they can implement all the base features that are not possible on those systems.

farther uptopic Diana stated that Navigator is a work-in-progress so i think it would be a mistake to assume that the present look and functionality is final. my guess is that they are rushing it out to the Passport systems so that they can implement all the base features that are not possible on those systems.

Agreed. In particular I think they need SDV to add new HD channels. Most SARA systems have lately added MHD and A&E HD (admittedly not the most exciting channels) as switched channels. I am curious if Passport systems got these channels added?

xnappo

In particular I think they need SDV to add new HD channels. Which will make the Tivo S3 owners using one-way CableCARDs happy. :cool: Most SARA systems have lately added MHD and A&E HD (admittedly not the most exciting channels) as switched channels.Does A&E-HDlite actually show anything in high-def? :confused:

Which will make the Tivo S3 owners using one-way CableCARDs happy. :cool: Does A&E-HDlite actually show anything in high-def? :confused:

Well, they are going to be showing The Soprano's in HD in January(even with that, the first two seasons are SD). But for the most part... No.

xnappo

Does A&E-HDlite actually show anything in high-def? :confused:1) Some of their reruns (CSI Miami) are in HD.
2) HDlite is a function of the provider (mostly DirecTV) not the network. (Or were you referring to the fact that they don't have a lot of HD content?). At least they aren't stretching SD material and trying to tell you it is HD like TNT used to do all the time (they still do that some)!

were you referring to the fact that they don't have a lot of HD content?Yes.

What I don't understand is with the limited amount of bandwidth that CATV providers currently have to allocate to HD, why carry a channel like A&E which is either broadcasting HD in 4:3 format or up converting 480i? :confused:

Not to waste space, but he mentions trick play in the previous sentence:
"Everyone seems to refer to this as the "trick play" bug, although I hate that term because we're talking about THE most basic allure of a DVR, the ability to pause and resume what you are watching."

And the sentence before that makes it clear he is talking about live content:
"Passport has a notorious bug whereby by the time you are recording to the external drive, you lose the ability to pause, rewind or fast forward "live" content."

Regardless of whether worded well, the point is that Passport has a "trick-play" issue with an external drive that SARA does not have.

xnappo

Thanks... I could be wrong, but I sure remember reading that "pause and resume" was also broken. The issue was that "resume" meant the same as the "live" button, i.e. it "resumed" to real time.

^No. RESUME picks up exactly where the program was when PAUSE was pushed. The LIVE button has no effect when watching live programs.

Agreed. In particular I think they need SDV to add new HD channels. Most SARA systems have lately added MHD and A&E HD (admittedly not the most exciting channels) as switched channels. I am curious if Passport systems got these channels added?

xnappo

While the rumors flew, I don't think there was anything related to my market, then again it's very hard to figure out because so few actually tell us what market, what hardware and software, assuming everyone is on the same cable system with the same hardware/software.

What I do know for sure is that TWC NYC Passport folks who previously believed the HD lineup was frozen until Mystro got deployed AND they started doing SDV, were in for a shock recently. Almost out of the blue, 2 HD channels were added AND 2 previously part time channels went full time. So it seems they aren't as out of bandwidth as we previously thought (btw, I looked very carefully after the additions to see if they "degraded," i.e. rate shaped other channels to fit them in. I could NOT find any evidence I could see and I note nobody else has. My "guess" is they were clever and took a tiny, tiny bit of bandwidth here and there, maybe both from HD as well as SD channels. What I KNOW is that they absolutely rolled connection speeds on Road Runner back. Something like 4 months or so ago, a lot of use noticed service was bumped up to 7 down/512 up. I think it was right before the new channels it went back to 5 down/384 up. Like I said, a little bit here, a little bit there.

Still, like a lot of other markets, we "lost" InHD2.So we have a slot open, and are waiting to see what's going to happen (in my market, we PAY for that channel on a HDXtra tier, so we have "lost" 20%; I managed to get in writing they intend to replace that channel, but no word with what).

1) Some of their reruns (CSI Miami) are in HD.
2) HDlite is a function of the provider (mostly DirecTV) not the network. (Or were you referring to the fact that they don't have a lot of HD content?). At least they aren't stretching SD material and trying to tell you it is HD like TNT used to do all the time (they still do that some)!

Yes I thought TNT might be getting slightly better, BUT in the past month I've seen a new twist. Completely useless vertical squeeze. I saw a trailer for The Closer, a show that sure as hell is produced in 16:9 HD. So we have the same fat characters, BUT because it's a 16:9 image, black bars go top and bottom. This was WHILE I was actually watching a Closer episode. AND the final segment of the "live" show had th squeezed look (obviously a mistake, it SEEMED like someone pushed a button to go into this mode and simply forget to disengage it when they should have).

^No. RESUME picks up exactly where the program was when PAUSE was pushed. The LIVE button has no effect when watching live programs.

Really? I am SURE I had read more than one post that "resume" made it jump to live so one lost the "paused" portion. I tend to use this function a LOT, so this is interesting. Then again (thinking out loud) in most cases that I pause, I DO want to FF the commercials.

the final segment of the "live" show had th squeezed look (obviously a mistake, it SEEMED like someone pushed a button to go into this mode and simply forget to disengage it when they should have).Yeh, I saw that too. They repeated that episode later (I recorded it to make an anamorphic DVD for my son) and the later showing was OK.

Actually, I think that TNT HD has become reasonably respectable (have more real HD than ESPN HD) - but their "stretched" commercials and promos (the Closer close is an example) does drive me buggy. Frankly, TNT has had some pretty decent stuff - the Closer is a great example and I liked Saved a lot too.

I wish TWC would add TNT and DiscoveryHD to our line up here at TWC/Adelphia Waterville, Ohio. We lost INHD2 last night. Looks like they quit broadcasting officially. Now it just shows a blank screen with "INHD" on it, and music.

Cable, as a monopoly, really needs to get their act together and start offering the same suite of channels. It really sucks that some locations get something that others don't. Can you imagine satellite providing certain channels to one part of their subscriber base and not another? Even though Cox is trying to standardize their lineup, that doesn't help much if TWC has more/different offerings. I know that isn't any different than the difference between Dish and Direct, but cable always seems to want to act as one big consortium when harranging the FCC, etc., it's time they acted like it with regard to customers.

As soon as TW implements SDV in my area, I will switch to FIOS so my Tivo S3 will still be able to receive all channels.

Since TW like all other cable companies is required to start using cable boxes with cable cards by July 2007, you would think that they could develop cable cards that would handle MPEG4 compression and handle their bandwidth problems that way.

Dave Hancock just posted comments about that very thing over in the 8300/SATA thread.

Since TW like all other cable companies is required to start using cable boxes with cable cards by July 2007, you would think that they could develop cable cards that would handle MPEG4 compression and handle their bandwidth problems that way.Decompression is not done in the CableCards (just decryption).

SDV is but just one consideration - there are lots of things that cable would like to do that one way communications won't handle (like networked DVRs, Start-Over, On-Demand, etc.). The TiVo's problem is that they couldn't continue to wait for the standards for bidirectional communications, OCAP, etc. to be developed before bringing out their HD box. They obviously felt that they had to move with what was available.

Comment on MPEG4: It is only (slightly less than) twice as efficient at MPEG2. I'm not sure that it is the TOTAL answer either - there will always be a newer, better technology just around the corner!

Question for Diana at Time Warner...

Over the holidays I recorded off of Time Warner Cable in Santa Clarita, CA the SD version TBS was airing of "Christmas Story" on the Motorola 6412 HD DVR. Much to my surprise, when we went to watch it several days later the functionality of playback controls for fast forward, rewind, etc were disabled for this recording.

Is Time Warner implementing restrictions to the DVR records via a broadcast flag?

Yeh, I saw that too. They repeated that episode later (I recorded it to make an anamorphic DVD for my son) and the later showing was OK.

Actually, I think that TNT HD has become reasonably respectable (have more real HD than ESPN HD) - but their "stretched" commercials and promos (the Closer close is an example) does drive me buggy. Frankly, TNT has had some pretty decent stuff - the Closer is a great example and I liked Saved a lot too.

Yes I do feel they are slightly better now! Back last spring, it seemed every movie (al of which were shot in widescreen) was shown in stretched SD! Now it seems most are done correctly.

Yes I thought Saved was decently done... but shed a tear, it was announced they were not going to produce any more of it.

Speaking of drama, has anyone heard ANY inkling about any HD moves on FX's part?

Cable, as a monopoly, really needs to get their act together and start offering the same suite of channels. It really sucks that some locations get something that others don't. Can you imagine satellite providing certain channels to one part of their subscriber base and not another? Even though Cox is trying to standardize their lineup, that doesn't help much if TWC has more/different offerings. I know that isn't any different than the difference between Dish and Direct, but cable always seems to want to act as one big consortium when harranging the FCC, etc., it's time they acted like it with regard to customers.

Oh boy, another 1000% agree from this guy!

That being said, I would guess there is a very complex calculation that goes on involving license fees charged to TWC and things like potential and actual subscriber bases in each of those many markets. But what about the local licensing agency?. We know the local license is what gives them an uncontested monopoly; but it also seems that there no real uniformity to what each agency "demands" for that license.

Question for Diana at Time Warner...

Over the holidays I recorded off of Time Warner Cable in Santa Clarita, CA the SD version TBS was airing of "Christmas Story" on the Motorola 6412 HD DVR. Much to my surprise, when we went to watch it several days later the functionality of playback controls for fast forward, rewind, etc were disabled for this recording.

Is Time Warner implementing restrictions to the DVR records via a broadcast flag?

Ah interesting. I suspect it's more of a software bug on the STB DVR. AND a very difficult one to ferret out. This exact thing HAS happened to me numerous times. I can't be 100% sure, but my impression is that i saw this every now and then back on my 8000 DVR. I don't think I've seen it on my 8300HD though.

That being said, it sure IS ironic that we both use very different DVR hardware/software. Which fact would seem to indicate some plot by TWC... but I really think not.

Does anyone know where I can see Mystro in action? I would like to know how it compares to my current passport navigator before it is implemented in my service area (Raleigh, Durham). I dont want to be stuck with a guide that will ultimately frustrate me to no end.

Does anyone know where I can see Mystro in action? I would like to know how it compares to my current passport navigator before it is implemented in my service area (Raleigh, Durham). I dont want to be stuck with a guide that will ultimately frustrate me to no end.

There's a demo linked in the Navigator thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=723830

I hope you like blue!

Does anyone know where I can see Mystro in action? I would like to know how it compares to my current passport navigator before it is implemented in my service area (Raleigh, Durham). I dont want to be stuck with a guide that will ultimately frustrate me to no end.


Get ready to be frustrated, because the Mystro Navigator is terrible.

Just a reminder: MDN is a "work in progress" the people that have it now have a very early version - so improvements will be coming. From what I understand about the implementation of this, rolling out updates will not be nearly as painful for the cable system as software updates used to be. So TW will be more willing to roll them out than before.

At least we can hope. :)

I took a look at the demo. It looks like a slightly modified version of the current Passport Navigator system.

Then again, it depends on what version of Passport you have. Some systems are still on the 1.8 series, while mine (San Diego) and several others are now bumped up to the 2.5 series (my current version is 2.5.066) that has all the latest features that Mystro will be adding.

From what I've read and heard, if you currently have SARA, you'll find Mystro a vast improvement.

At least we can hope. :)

Boy, does that ever totally sum up the "cable experience!"

As I seem to be in an area of my city that gets things last, it bodes good in that by the time we get it, it MIGHT be more bug free. While I have any many beefs w/Passport as others, I think my number one is the "trick play bug." AND I do use that a LOT.

It may turn out that MDN will fix that bug, hooray! BUT I would also expect that something will be broken from my current software. The unknown is exactly what; then it's a matter of wether some new issue is less important than the trick play bug.

But the bottom line is that we really have no frakking choice! It's not like we can say "to hell with TWC, I'm switching to Comcast." I could say "To hell w/TWC in about 2 years when FIOS is ready to go in my hood." Or I could get a few RPGs and blast a hole in the building blocking my view of the Direct satellite (obviously NOT a very wise choice!).

You could always move so you can get satellite, but then you'd probably just experience another set of things you don't like. That's pretty much the way things always seem to work when checking out the greener grass on the other side of the fence. :)

Uh I sure do understand the "grass is greener" syndrome. The real question is "does the other guy's system not have that bug AND not introduce a deal-breaker bug that your current system doesn't." Even if I cold get a line of sight to the bird, my understanding is that satellite systems generally don't carry locals, one is expected to use an OTA/antenna to get those. That's another thing that is highly problematic in a big city. I barely get ANY reception that way AND it is worse after 9/11 because the broadcast point went from my towers to the Empire State Bldg.

Great News-The Nebraska TWC site posted a letter announceing the first Navigator software upgrade.New features new time/channel recording option-new flag showing when shows will be erased.-Bam the blue is gone new Tivo like colors-Enhanced show information-Enhanced banner control.This is the first of MANY upgrades that will be quickly added and the ones not haveingNavigator will get them when it replaces Passport or sara on there systems.The letter states TWC has listened and is responding.Lets keep this thread on course and more will come.

For those who want to read it, you can find it here:

http://www.timewarnercable.com/MediaLibrary/4/49/Content%20Management/Products%20And%20Services/documents/PostLaunch.pdf

Uh I sure do understand the "grass is greener" syndrome. The real question is "does the other guy's system not have that bug AND not introduce a deal-breaker bug that your current system doesn't."The "leapfrog syndrome" goes hand in hand. While a given provider might offer something new today, another provider is sure to "leapfrog" that and switching then becomes a constant. That, IMHO, is the number one reason satellite has service committments and cable "probably" should. :)

Has Time Warner announced the release a newer generation HD DVR @ CES 2007? I see Comcast has plans to come out with a new STB.

Has Time Warner announced the release a newer generation HD DVR @ CES 2007? I see Comcast has plans to come out with a new STB.

Does one exist? Seriously, do you know of any STB that is "better" than the SA8300HD? Be careful, we ARE talking hardware here, not software. I think the basic hardware part of the 8300 is dual tuners, plus the ability to record 2 HD streams while playing back a third. Most everything else is software

SOME issues are speculated to occur because the RAM on the box is small. BUT from what I've read, it sounds like there also is a software issues involved (caching of directories).

I live in Hermitage pa and I have cable TW and I was wondering if you are keeping the CW WBCB WFMJ-DT

Wonder if any SARA uses have yet received Navigator.Would like to hear some fellow sara uses reaction to Navigator.Also if Diana still reads this thread do you have any idea on Navigator release to sara users? Greensboro NC-Sara 187.27

Diana hasn't been heard from in quite some time.

I have submitted an email to Time Warner in Lincoln NE about my problem concerning HDMI and Dolby Digital not working together.

Also, if any one wanted a video demo of the Navigator software I could break out my digicam and film me using the Navigator software on the 8300HD for any features you would all like to see.

Let me know,

Brandon

Pretty sure it was Diana who said Passport would get MDN first; apparently the issue was SARA CAN do SDV but Passport could not. Sure sounded like the intention was to get everyone ABLE to deal with SDV so they could start rolling that out without having to make sure EVERYONE had MDN.

Then again, one COULD say there's some wishful thinking in there. But it still is actually logical from TWC's perspective.

Diana hasn't been heard from in quite some time.


My guess is that TWC put a big kibosh to her posting here.

I'm not sure what's up with Diana right now. My guess is that she's just super busy still with her moving from SC to New England (conn. I believe). TWC also has her travelling all over the place last I talked to her. She's a busy woman!

Samsung, Time Warner Cable and Advance/Newhouse Join Together to Launch OCAP on Interactive HDTV Sets and HD Set-top Boxes
Time Warner Cable Launches High-Definition Interactive Digital Cable Services on World's First Interactive Digital Cable Ready (iDCR) OCAP-Based TV and Set-top Box from Samsung
By BusinessWire
NEW YORK, BUSINESS WIRE -- Samsung, Time Warner Cable and Advance/Newhouse Communications announced that interactive digital cable services are now live on the Samsung HL-S5686C Open Cable Application Platform (OCAP(TM)) compliant DLP HDTV and SMT-H3050 High Definition Set-top Boxes (HDSTB) in Time Warner Cable's New York City systems, and will soon be expanding to other Time Warner Cable cities, including Milwaukee, WI, and cities covered by Advance/Newhouse's Bright House Networks cable systems.

The announcement was made today concurrent with the opening night of Time Warner Cable's Home to the Future exhibit. Home to the Future (www.hometothefuture.com) is a four-story, interactive installation built inside the Time Warner Center at New York City's Columbus Circle that opens to the public January 17 and lasts for three weeks.

Time Warner Cable's new interactive cable service includes its OCAP Digital Navigator and its in-house developed Interactive Program Guide. In 2007, Time Warner Cable and Advance/Newhouse Communications will continue to rollout OCAP on Samsung OpenCable products in other divisions of Time Warner Cable and Bright House Networks.

"Samsung is excited to see the commercial launch of OCAP on our HDTVs and High Definition STBs," said DJ Oh, President and CEO of Samsung Electronics America, Inc. "Time Warner Cable and Advance/Newhouse Communications through its Bright House Networks cable systems have been instrumental in leading the North American cable industry to accelerate the deployment of OpenCable technology."

"This underlines our commitment to fully deploy OCAP on all of our systems and confirms our growing relationship with Samsung, a leader in consumer electronics," said Glenn Britt, President and CEO of Time Warner Cable. "OCAP will foster the national launch of interactive applications and these Samsung products will enable consumers to enjoy the full range of interactive services with or without a set-top box."

"We are pleased by the progress made through our partnership with Samsung and Time Warner Cable towards making OCAP a deployable reality," said Robert Miron, Chairman and CEO of Advance/Newhouse Communications. "This exemplifies our core commitment to continuously providing more choice and value to our Bright House Network customers."

http://miranda.broadcastnewsroom.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=97411

Eeee-gads. OCAP may be "live" but AFAIK only to some STB that TWC does not distribute and only in some demo setting. The actual NYC customers (the ones who tithe 25% of their income to TWC) all have SA boxes and Passport software... which does NOT support OCAP. We are all waiting for TWC to distribute their new IPG, code name Mystro or abbreviated MDN.

And I'd say that there are some very specific things we are actually looking for:

1. The ability to fully implement SDV as it promises end the "we're out of bandwidth" excuse when we ask about additional HD programming

2. That external drives are correctly supported without major bugs that severely limit functionality.

3. That we have better functionality and more options in the IPG.

IMO

Eeee-gads. OCAP may be "live" but AFAIK only to some STB that TWC does not distribute and only in some demo setting. The actual NYC customers (the ones who tithe 25% of their income to TWC) all have SA boxes and Passport software... which does NOT support OCAP. We are all waiting for TWC to distribute their new IPG, code name Mystro or abbreviated MDN.

And I'd say that there are some very specific things we are actually looking for:

1. The ability to fully implement SDV as it promises end the "we're out of bandwidth" excuse when we ask about additional HD programming

2. That external drives are correctly supported without major bugs that severely limit functionality.

3. That we have better functionality and more options in the IPG.

IMO

You left off a biggie:

4. Provide support for the firewire (IEEE1394) ports on the SA8300 DVR so that we can offload HD content to D-VHS tape.

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20070116006421&newsLang=en

Samsung, Time Warner Cable and Advance/Newhouse Join Together to Launch OCAP on Interactive HDTV Sets and HD Set-top Boxes
Time Warner Cable Launches High-Definition Interactive Digital Cable Services on World’s First Interactive Digital Cable Ready (iDCR) OCAP-Based TV and Set-top Box from Samsung

NEW YORK--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Samsung, Time Warner Cable and Advance/Newhouse Communications announced that interactive digital cable services are now live on the Samsung HL-S5686C Open Cable Application Platform (OCAPTM) compliant DLP HDTV and SMT-H3050 High Definition Set-top Boxes (HDSTB) in Time Warner Cable’s New York City systems, and will soon be expanding to other Time Warner Cable cities, including Milwaukee, WI, and cities covered by Advance/Newhouse’s Bright House Networks cable systems.

The announcement was made today concurrent with the opening night of Time Warner Cable’s Home to the Future exhibit. Home to the Future (www.hometothefuture.com) is a four-story, interactive installation built inside the Time Warner Center at New York City’s Columbus Circle that opens to the public January 17 and lasts for three weeks.

Time Warner Cable’s new interactive cable service includes its OCAP Digital Navigator and its in-house developed Interactive Program Guide. In 2007, Time Warner Cable and Advance/Newhouse Communications will continue to rollout OCAP on Samsung OpenCable products in other divisions of Time Warner Cable and Bright House Networks.

“Samsung is excited to see the commercial launch of OCAP on our HDTVs and High Definition STBs,” said DJ Oh, President and CEO of Samsung Electronics America, Inc. “Time Warner Cable and Advance/Newhouse Communications through its Bright House Networks cable systems have been instrumental in leading the North American cable industry to accelerate the deployment of OpenCable technology.”

"This underlines our commitment to fully deploy OCAP on all of our systems and confirms our growing relationship with Samsung, a leader in consumer electronics,” said Glenn Britt, President and CEO of Time Warner Cable. “OCAP will foster the national launch of interactive applications and these Samsung products will enable consumers to enjoy the full range of interactive services with or without a set-top box.”

“We are pleased by the progress made through our partnership with Samsung and Time Warner Cable towards making OCAP a deployable reality,” said Robert Miron, Chairman and CEO of Advance/Newhouse Communications. “This exemplifies our core commitment to continuously providing more choice and value to our Bright House Network customers.”

Samsung, Time Warner Cable and Advance/Newhouse Join Together to Launch OCAP on Interactive HDTV Sets .....

You do realize that bgooch posted the exact same article only 3 posts prior, right? :D

You do realize that bgooch posted the exact same article only 3 posts prior, right? :DYes... but this news is so good it's worth repeating. :)

I would like the STB have audio option to keep the audio output leve the same across all channels - most of the SD analog channels are alot louder than the digital or HD channels.
TWC Binghamton NY

Bob

You left off a biggie:

4. Provide support for the firewire (IEEE1394) ports on the SA8300 DVR so that we can offload HD content to D-VHS tape.

I was trying to hit the major issues that affected the most folks.

I would like the STB have audio option to keep the audio output leve the same across all channels - most of the SD analog channels are alot louder than the digital or HD channels.
TWC Binghamton NY

Bob

More specifically, you wish a switchable limiter. I would suspect hardware may be involved in doing that; I doubt any cable outfit is going to want to be swapping all their cable boxes, so it may not be that realistic of a wish.

I have it even worse... I can NOT get my remote to speak to my AVR, so I HAVE to pick up another remote to adjust volume!

More specifically, you wish a switchable limiter. I would suspect hardware may be involved in doing that; I doubt any cable outfit is going to want to be swapping all their cable boxes, so it may not be that realistic of a wish.While not wishing to be accused of "nitpicking" again, but...........this article in Broadcast Engineering (http://broadcastengineering.com/audio/broadcasting_digital_loudness_matching/index.html) explains the problem in pretty technical terms. The article points out that various cable STBs do have the capability to correct this level matching problem. It also points out that the dynamic range adjustmet may, or may not, be enabled by the local cable system (at least with SARA software for the 8300).

Bottom line is that you (bakerb955) do have a very legitimate complaint and it is one that can be addressed by the software.

Hello everyone,

I haven't had a chance to read back through the thread for specific questions, but wanted to just check in and thank you for your patience with me as I continue to transition.

I realize you are disappointed with my attention to the thread, but I really really really have been busy selling the house in SC, buying a house in CT, moving, unpacking, traveling to Passport Divisions and the Engineering Lab.... sitting in many, many, many airports for weather delay.

From the last time I checked in, here is the gist of what I know many of you are concerned with: I don't have a launch schedule to post BECAUSE with TWC we just don't operate that way. TWC has achieved some very wonderful accomplishments because we are decentralized to a great extent - Corporate doesn't create a spreadsheet of launch dates that can simply be published somewhere. Rather we provide support to Divisions who are the best judge of when they should launch any particular service. In the case of Mystro Digital Navigator "TWC's Navigator" it is a roll out that is happening in Passport areas first. So if you live in a Passport area, you will see the initiation of MDN in your area within the next few months.

Also - know that enhancements and improvements to this product are happening as I type this - literally I'm mutitasking right now listening to a call on the product and when enhancements will be available.

OK - I know this is clear as mud and I'm not giving you want you want... but I gotta rush to the airport now and promise to be better really.... even though all next week I'm on the road :-)

Thanks,

Diana, Glad to hear from you. We can sure understand your limited time. Hope to be hearing more from you soon.

However, I do hope that you are monitoring the thread about progress of the Navigator - from what I have seen there no one is anxious to get that on their system. Hopefully there will be rapid improvement and that Navigator will be something that everyone welcomes.

Diana, Glad to hear from you. I do hope that you are monitoring the thread about progress of the Navigator.
Diana, Here is the link that Dave is referring to regarding MDN.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9505385#post9505385
Thanks again for your time and assistance.

I was trying to hit the major issues that affected the most folks.

I know. It does. There are an awful lot of people out there with D-VHS decks they purchased in order to archive HD material, including myself (and a huge number of AVS'ers - just check the archives in the HDTV Recorders forum from just a couple of years back). Those VCR's have basically been reduced to expensive paperweights because of the lack of/removal of firewire support. The ports exist on the machine to be used by the interested customer, just as the SATA port does. Providing support for those jacks should be part of the software package. With the rollout of MDN, this is a feature that should absolutely be included if they want to do this right.

I know. It does. There are an awful lot of people out there with D-VHS decks they purchased in order to archive HD material, including myself (and a huge number of AVS'ers - just check the archives in the HDTV Recorders forum from just a couple of years back). Those VCR's have basically been reduced to expensive paperweights because of the lack of/removal of firewire support. The ports exist on the machine to be used by the interested customer, just as the SATA port does. Providing support for those jacks should be part of the software package. With the rollout of MDN, this is a feature that should absolutely be included if they want to do this right.Please correct me if this is not what is happening: If you call cable they will provide you with an HD STB that works just fine with firewire and you can record any HD program not protected by the 5C "copy never" flag. So your D-VHS recorder is not a paperweight.

However, if you have an HD DVR (either SA or Motorola varieties) the Firewire port may, or may not work, depending on where you are. And when it does work, you cannot make D-VHS recordings of programs that have the 5C "copy once" flag that you have already recorded on the DVR.

While not wishing to be accused of "nitpicking" again, but...........this article in Broadcast Engineering (http://broadcastengineering.com/audio/broadcasting_digital_loudness_matching/index.html) explains the problem in pretty technical terms. The article points out that various cable STBs do have the capability to correct this level matching problem. It also points out that the dynamic range adjustmet may, or may not, be enabled by the local cable system (at least with SARA software for the 8300).

Bottom line is that you (bakerb955) do have a very legitimate complaint and it is one that can be addressed by the software.

I have no issue if you politely point to something that refutes a speculation I made... not accusing me of being "WRONG." Or saying I was making "sweeping generalizations" when I said I didn't see any "inputs" on the 8300 (because, as I explained, I actually looked again at the back panel).

I'd readily admit my knowledge of limiters is somewhat limited as my experience with them is in AM radio applications where you start with a very limited audio "bandwidth." Even so, good ears could easily discern the pumping effect.

BTW, I DO employ a "trick" to deal with this. "Even" audio level (IMO) is most desirable late at night when you are taking concern for others, whether they be in your house or for apartment neighbors (even though I live in a pre-war building with walls made of brick and plaster, not 3 layers of tissue paper like a lot of new construction). So I shut down the AVR and use the TV's built in speakers. The TV's audio system does employ a limiter (based on their description of what it does rather than them saying they had a limiter).

Does any TWC market have HD PPV? The UFC has gone HD PPV, and for my $40, I would like to watch in HD. I also have D* for Sunday Ticket, and they do some HD PPV, but I would rather not leave it active during non-NFL times.

Please correct me if this is not what is happening: If you call cable they will provide you with an HD STB that works just fine with firewire and you can record any HD program not protected by the 5C "copy never" flag. So your D-VHS recorder is not a paperweight.

I'm well aware of the FCC "mandate" about providing the customer with an STB with a working firewire port. I had one, with emphasis on the "had". However, with the last software update that came down the pipe (the one that allowed SATA support on the 8300) back in the fall, firewire support was removed on the SA3250. Whether this was deliberate or just an inadvertent casualty of the update itself is unknown, but the result is the same. There are no longer any STB's offered by TWC with working firewire. That's why they need to make sure MDN has the firewire section of code included and debugged. And since MDN will run on all TWC platforms, if it works for any of their STB's it should now work for all of them, no?

However, if you have an HD DVR (either SA or Motorola varieties) the Firewire port may, or may not work, depending on where you are. And when it does work, you cannot make D-VHS recordings of programs that have the 5C "copy once" flag that you have already recorded on the DVR.

The ports apparently do still work on the Motorola boxes, at least that's what I glean from the occasional posting in the Recorders Forum. But not on the SA boxes. And the original DVR copy does not "count" towards the copy-once flag; people with the Moto DVR's can off-load content to D-VHS.

Look, the point is simply this: they need to authorize firewire support in the new Digital Navigator to make it as useful as possible to all their customers, including those "power users" who like to archive HD material on D-VHS. If they can support the SATA port, they can also support the IEEE1394 ports. It's just code.

However, with the last software update that came down the pipe (the one that allowed SATA support on the 8300) back in the fall, firewire support was removed on the SA3250. Whether this was deliberate or just an inadvertent casualty of the update itself is unknown, but the result is the same. There are no longer any STB's offered by TWC with working firewire. I'm curious, have you talked to TWC about this? Particularly in regards to their legal obligations?
Look, the point is simply this: they need to authorize firewire support in the new Digital Navigator to make it as useful as possible to all their customers, including those "power users" who like to archive HD material on D-VHS. If they can support the SATA port, they can also support the IEEE1394 ports. It's just code.Oh, I absolutely agree! :)

I'm curious, have you talked to TWC about this? Particularly in regards to their legal obligations?


Yes, several times. It's useless; they don't care. It's not just local; it's everywhere they're using the latest software version, which is to say, everywhere in the country. That's why I'm hoping they do the right thing with Digital Navigator. It shouldn't be terribly difficult, since the basic code set to enable firewire for Passport applications (and, I presume, SARA as well) has already been written. It just needs to be modified as required and incorporated into MDN.

Yes, several times. It's useless; they don't care. It's not just local; it's everywhere they're using the latest software version, which is to say, everywhere in the country. That's why I'm hoping they do the right thing with Digital Navigator. It shouldn't be terribly difficult, since the basic code set to enable firewire for Passport applications (and, I presume, SARA as well) has already been written. It just needs to be modified as required and incorporated into MDN.I just don't see how they can simply ignore part 76.640 of the regulations (of cable systems) which specifically state (emphasis is mine in the quote):
(4) Cable operators shall: (i) Effective April 1, 2004, upon request of a customer, replace any leased high definition set-top box, which does not include a functional IEEE 1394 interface, with one that includes a functional IEEE 1394 interface or upgrade the customer’s set-top box by download or other means to ensure that the IEEE 1394 interface is functional.

TWC are you paying attention to the regulations?

I just don't see how they can simply ignore part 76.640 of the regulations (of cable systems) which specifically state (emphasis is mine in the quote):

TWC are you paying attention to the regulations?

They just don't care, and figure there's not enough of a groundswell of indignation about it out there anymore to matter. You don't really see any carping about it in the Recorders Forum anymore either. Either most of the D-VHS guys are just exhausted about banging their heads against the wall on this issue, or they've just moved on to newer technologies, expanded DVR's, HD-DVD/Blu-Ray, whatever. Me, I've got a particularly hard head, but I also know where to pick my battles. ;) At this point, I think my energies are better served in trying to make sure MDN has support for both SATA and firewire since the 8300 has both sets of ports. Diana, I hope you're "listening". :)

DanceingBear, TWC does have HDPPV here in Palm Desert, Ca and I have heard of other areas also

DanceingBear, TWC does have HDPPV here in Palm Desert, Ca and I have heard of other areas also

Same here in South Carolina.

DanceingBear, TWC does have HDPPV here in Palm Desert, Ca and I have heard of other areas also
Is that real PPV (meaning "live events") or "OnDemand" movies? Lots of areas (including mine) have HD "OnDemand", but not an HD PPV channel for things like UFC events.

BTW: At least here (and I suppose elsewhere too) the HD OnDemand is somewhat lame, offering only a few movies plus some 40 min IMAX releases (for $4).

Dave, not sure what you mean by "real PPV" but we DO "pay per view" for movies not yet released to the premium channels in addition to the "live events" (or does it work differently upstate?). OnDemand seems to be a channel that is tied to a "regular" channel where you can watch from a very limited selection of that channel, be they extra pay premiums or covering regular channels. Oh, not 100% accurate, I think there are some of the OnDemands that are unto themselves (I recall a AOL music video one and I don't think there a "regular" one for that). AND they actually charge for some of them, I think you have to have multiple premiums before you "qualify" for a "free" premium OnDemand (subscribe only to HBO and they charge 9 bucks for the OnDemand version.

Confounding that is InDemand. I've seen that term used to denote something that I find the same as HBO... you pay a monthly fee for access to the channel. Best example is something like Howard Stern, it's called an InDemand. (Speaking of Howie, here's a pisser, AFAIK the 14 bucks/month buys you a SD broadcast; but they run a heavily censored clip show on InHD or HDNet IN HD!)

In NYC, AFAIK, NONE of this (On, In or PPV) is in HD. If you pay your 4 bucks for a new movie, you get the SD version... I'd be surprised if it was NOT also cropped to 4:3!

Dave, not sure what you mean by "real PPV" but we DO "pay per view" for movies not yet released to the premium channels in addition to the "live events" (or does it work differently upstate?).!Yeh, it sure is confusing - that's why I asked the question. And it gets difficult to give examples because things are different in different systems - but I'll give it another try.

What I mean by "On Demand" is a program service where you can pick a program and view it at any time. Here the program is stored on a server at the head end, and when you request a program it is downloaded to a local server near you (perhaps in your basement!) and then "played out" from there. Your can pause, FF, or RW (though only single speed) at will. These come in "free", subscription (HBO, etc.) and pay (purchase a movie) flavors.

And what I mean by "PPV" is where, for a fee, you can connect up to a live program. I believe that the original poster on this subject talked about UFC (Ultimate Fighting Championships- or something like that) events. My son (who lives on the other coast) has me record these for him at $40 a pop. It really is not so much a technology issue (given available QAM channels), but is a marketing/business decision. But if a system has no HD "OnDemand" then they probably don't have the infrastructure for HD PPV either.

Hope that clarifys my statement (and my question). I haven't yet heard of any real HD PPV going on - but there is really no reason not to have it.

If CATV providers like Time Warner implement switched digital video (http://lw.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Display.cfm?Section=Archives&Subsection=Display&ARTICLE_ID=148204&KEYWORD=A-PON) distributed networks... what effect, if any, will this have on our ability to surf through a couple of hundred channels when there isn't much on?

The bottom line is we'd be much better served by consistent definitions of common terms! Not just among ourselves (Dave calls a movie you pay to watch OnDemand and I call it PPV), but from TW as well (think about it, InDemand, OnDemand, and VideoOnDemand).

OK, lemme try and get back on topic<g>, Consumer Input to Diana.

It was widely "announced" that TWC is "live" with it's OCAP application in NYC, such announcement seeming to come FROM TWC. Huh? I could be wrong, but I'd bet that we here at AVS would find out within 15 minutes if someone IN NYC got Mystro/MDN. Coupled with that "announcement" was a confusing bit about a Samsung STB, with a sort of implication one had to have that piece of equipment to avail ourselves of "OCAP."

Now it wasn't referred to as a DVR, but is TWC going to distribute something other than the typical SA box for non-DVR use in NYC? Am I alone in thinking a new piece of hardware may flood TWC offices with folks looking to swap? Is that actually part of the plan? I had thought this might be the last option TWC would consider. What I know is that TWC gave up requiring a proof of HD equipment to get the 8300HD box, I know several folks who have no interest in HD swapped their boxes for it because it had a much larger HD in it. I thought this might be to increase tat particular hardware's installed base, there IS some actual logic to it despite the fact that so many "corporate" decisions seem to totally lack ANY logic!

And Diana, PLEASE light a fire under someone about replacing InHD2, I mean we PAY EXTRA for it and are still paying for it even thought it's no longer available!

go to youtube.com and search for "dish network usb". they are doing some very interesting things with their DVR and expanding it's storage. They don't actually say it, but by copying a show to the external drive, you would have a backup in case your DVR screws up/crashes/is replaced. I personally find their approach more appealling the the current TW approach to expanding storage.

Very cool S4 link. ;)

OK, lemme try and get back on topic<g>, Consumer Input to Diana.

It was widely "announced" that TWC is "live" with it's OCAP application in NYC, such announcement seeming to come FROM TWC. Huh? I could be wrong, but I'd bet that we here at AVS would find out within 15 minutes if someone IN NYC got Mystro/MDN. Coupled with that "announcement" was a confusing bit about a Samsung STB, with a sort of implication one had to have that piece of equipment to avail ourselves of "OCAP."

Now it wasn't referred to as a DVR, but is TWC going to distribute something other than the typical SA box for non-DVR use in NYC? Am I alone in thinking a new piece of hardware may flood TWC offices with folks looking to swap? Is that actually part of the plan? I had thought this might be the last option TWC would consider. What I know is that TWC gave up requiring a proof of HD equipment to get the 8300HD box, I know several folks who have no interest in HD swapped their boxes for it because it had a much larger HD in it. I thought this might be to increase tat particular hardware's installed base, there IS some actual logic to it despite the fact that so many "corporate" decisions seem to totally lack ANY logic!

And Diana, PLEASE light a fire under someone about replacing InHD2, I mean we PAY EXTRA for it and are still paying for it even thought it's no longer available!This is good news for CATV subscribers, because next year when the Cable MSOs support OCAP (http://www.opencable.com/ocap/) to administer DRM policy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Rights_Management) for authorization and access to copyrighted digital content, the next generation of two-way capable iDCR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interactive_digital_cable_ready) devices will become available to consumers.

Panasonic And Comcast To Join Forces To Test Interactive Digital Cable-Ready Televison. Interactive Television to Integrate Open Cable Application Platform (OCAP) and Offer More Choice for Consumers to Enjoy HD, VOD and Other Advanced Home Entertainment Services. (http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/prModelDetail?storeId=11301&catalogId=13251&itemId=104590&modelNo=Content01072007024440900&surfModel=Content01072007024440900)

Samsung, Time Warner Cable and Advance/Newhouse Join Together to Launch OCAP on Interactive HDTV Sets and HD Set-top Boxes. Time Warner Cable Launches High-Definition Interactive Digital Cable Services on World's First Interactive Digital Cable Ready (iDCR) OCAP-Based TV and Set-top Box from Samsung. (http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/070116/20070116006421.html?.v=1)

And maybe TiVo will release a Tivo S4 (http://www.tivocommunity.com/). ;)

By that OCAP will deliver the next gen business model, PPM, as in pay per minute. Every show will support it's own pricing. Some stuff, like boxing, will be per event (better to make 50 bucks no matter how long than a buck a minute that ends up with folks paying 2-3 bucks for certain fights. Idol will be 2 bucks/minute, less popular stuff much less. Hell, I'm calling my stock broker, I just realized this and I DO want to get in on the action!

I'll call it: pay to play w/OCAP... I don't mind paying for it... all I'm asking is give me what I pay for.

Diana... Off topic a bit but.... I am sure your remember me. Last night I finally found FoxHD on the TWC system. I do not know if you had any part of getting it but there it is. Would have been nice a day earlier to catch the last NFL game in HD but I am not complaining. After around four years of pitching a fit, I finally have FoxHD :) I hope that all is going well with your new job!

I'll call it: pay to play w/OCAP... I don't mind paying for it... all I'm asking is give me what I pay for.

Ah, be very careful what you pray for! It can very easily bite not only you, but the rest of us in the nether regions.

Ah, be very careful what you pray for! It can very easily bite not only you, but the rest of us in the nether regions.There's no doubt that in the grand scheme of things... our cable bills will go up. Nothing is for free and CATV providers would not be inclined to change their content delivery mechanisms unless the competition (FiOS), FCC/Congressional mandates and the perceived belief of increased profitability have coincided as some of the timely factors involved to motivate them to begin embracing OCAP during 2008.

Time Warner's Network DVR Service Expands
18 markets by the end of the year...
Posted 2007-01-30 09:36:27 by Karl
http://www.broadbandreports.com/shownews/81304

Time Warner Cable's original network DVR service "Mystro" received rave reviews from trial participants, but the company scratched the system because of legal threats from the broadcast industry. Networked DVRs, which store your content at the network head-end, scare copyright holders and broadcasters, who believe they violate existing laws and threaten their control of their content. Cablevision recently scuttled a similar effort for the same reasons.

Time Warner Cable then revamped (read: scaled down) the project, recently trial launching a new service dubbed "start-over" in portions of six markets. As the name indicates, the service only lets you start programs over - while content is still stored remotely. One major problem: the "DVR-lite" service won't let you fast forward through ads. It also only works for "selected" shows and channels, according to Time Warner, though that lineup is ever growing.

Cable Digital News notes that the project is set to expand; it should be available in 18 markets by the end of the year. In addition to the fact that you can't skip ads, the report states TWC is "weighing whether to start selling sponsorships to advertisers on Start Over."

Friggin' DMCA - that crap needs to be overturned now. Everyone on this forum who's taken the time to post should take the time to write their Senators and Congressperson about the need to overturn the DMCA right now. That is the law they fear they'll lose to in court and that is the reason these broken boxes are being considered by Time Warner.

Seriously, if you can take the time to post here, you can take the time to actually get something done by writing Congress.

The simplest way is to visit this EFF page:
https://secure.eff.org/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=115

They'll determine your Congressperson for you automatically and send your letter to them. Customizing your letter improves the chances it will be read.

The truth is that Republicans have most strongly opposed DMCA reform, although all of Congress is guilty. If your Representative or Senators turn out to be Republicans, be sure to note that your vote next Election season depends heavily on their action on this matter.

If you'd prefer to copy/paste, here's the custom letter I wrote:

Please reintroduce and pass, without riders, the DMCRA. The DMCA is ruining digital rights in this country and must be amended by this law as soon as reasonably possible.

Please note that as an informed citizen, I am aware that I can track your voting record on this and related measures at:
http://votesmart.org/

By simply entering your name, clicking Voting Record, and choosing "Technology." Be further aware that I will do so when you are next up for re-election before I visit the polls, and your decisions on this and related bills will weigh heavily on my vote for you or an opponent.

The DMCRA takes reasonable measures to protect Fair Use by consumers and most importantly, innovators. Please pass this bill to give the average American consumer their rights back to use the devices and services they pay for, and to give innovators back the rights to research and develop new ideas based on existing technology - the very core of innovation.

If you take the time to Wiki your Representative, you can determine when they actually are next up for re-election - stating the year you intend to vote yay or nay for their re-election right in the letter might add a little punch.

You can Wiki your Congressperson quickly via Google with this link:
http://www.google.com/search?q=Waxman+site%3Awikipedia.org

Just replace "Waxman" with the last name of your Rep.

I doubt there's a person on this forum who hasn't had it with crippled boxes and nonsense copyright barriers. Let's stop complaining and start doing something about it.

Diana when you get time to answer questions i wonder.Will Navigator have a fuel gage like sara to let you know how much recording space is left?Also keyword seach would be a nifty feature in addition to name search.

Time Warner's Network DVR Service Expands
18 markets by the end of the year...
Posted 2007-01-30 09:36:27 by Karl
http://www.broadbandreports.com/shownews/81304

Time Warner Cable's original network DVR service "Mystro" received rave reviews from trial participants, but the company scratched the system because of legal threats from the broadcast industry. Networked DVRs, which store your content at the network head-end, scare copyright holders and broadcasters, who believe they violate existing laws and threaten their control of their content. Cablevision recently scuttled a similar effort for the same reasons.

Time Warner Cable then revamped (read: scaled down) the project, recently trial launching a new service dubbed "start-over" in portions of six markets. As the name indicates, the service only lets you start programs over - while content is still stored remotely. One major problem: the "DVR-lite" service won't let you fast forward through ads. It also only works for "selected" shows and channels, according to Time Warner, though that lineup is ever growing.

Cable Digital News notes that the project is set to expand; it should be available in 18 markets by the end of the year. In addition to the fact that you can't skip ads, the report states TWC is "weighing whether to start selling sponsorships to advertisers on Start Over."Click here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9598941&&#post9598941) to go to another post that includes info about TWC's "start-over" service and proposed "look-back"
service. There are several links to more info too.

Diana when you get time to answer questions i wonder.Will Navigator have a fuel gage like sara to let you know how much recording space is left?

Much better than SARA's "fuel gauge", which is just a rough approximation and doesn't take into account HD vs. SD programming, is Passport user's ability to get into the diagnostic area screens and see exactly how much disk space is used/available down to a tenth of a gigabite. Makes planning your recordings much easier. As long as that feature continues to be available (for savvy viewers who read the AVS Forum and know how ;)), then I'll be happy.

The more I hear abou Navigator the better SARA sounds.SARA upgrades are slow but we do get them.A fuel gauge of some sort is a vital part of dvr software.Both SARA and PASSPORT have there own versions.With 1.89 SARA recording features catching up to PASSPORT.So with NAVIGATOR are we all takeing a step back?

The more I hear abou Navigator the better SARA sounds.SARA upgrades are slow but we do get them.A fuel gauge of some sort is a vital part of dvr software.Both SARA and PASSPORT have there own versions.With 1.89 SARA recording features catching up to PASSPORT.So with NAVIGATOR are we all takeing a step back?

I think the general consensus is that Navigator, which almost sounds like it's a beta version in its current form, is a big step back for Passport people, a smaller step back for SARA. But, unfortunately, a step back. It's just not ready for prime time unless they honestly don't care about reducing service to their customers. Truth is, most people probably won't notice and everyone else will just re-calibrate their expectations. Sucks for us, though.

I'll tell you one thing. They'd better get the bug fixed that causes some Navigator customers to lose their saved programming before they roll it out in a big way. Hell hath no fury like a desperate housewife who loses her Desperate Housewives. ;)

Much better than SARA's "fuel gauge", which is just a rough approximation and doesn't take into account HD vs. SD programming, is Passport user's ability to get into the diagnostic area screens and see .

SARA's diag page has the exact info too.

xnappo

Diana how about adding a 10 second jump back when fast forwarding.This would be a big help.Also add recording feature on this day at this time in addition to time channel,all times and first run.

FWIW, not sure about SARA, but Passport provides a very reasonable (IMO) method of alerting you to disk space issues (when it calculates what you have recorded and looks ahead to scheduled recordings, it alerts you via hourglasses and "how many days left" when you earliest recording may get deleted in 2 days). As a techie, sure I'd want to see actual "disk space used/free" BUT if I ONLY had that, I'd also have to make calculations including taking into account future recordings.

Honestly, I think the method I see Passport use in many ways is the best way. I find it simple, and clear, meaning it has the most use for the most folks. If they ONLY had a gauge or disk space data, trust me, there WOULD be screaming galore as it shifts the burden to the user to take that data AND sit down with a calculator to figure out how long you actually have left!

Navigator's "method" is hard to judge, it's not very well explained, only referring to a "recording log." Passport's method is in the list of recorded shows and I'm not sure both are the same.

Honestly, I think the method I see Passport use in many ways is the best way. I find it simple, and clear, meaning it has the most use for the most folks. If they ONLY had a gauge or disk space data, trust me, there WOULD be screaming galore as it shifts the burden to the user to take that data AND sit down with a calculator to figure out how long you actually have left!


Actually, I find having the exact disk space info (from the (AVFS diagnostic screen) to be invaluable. I figure about 5-6GB for an hour of HD recording, and about 2-3GB for SD. Armed with that info, I can schedule my recordings pretty accurately, even without a calculator. Much better than the hourglasses in the program list, which I don't find very helpful at all and which seem kind of arbitrary. Sometimes there is plenty of space available when they appear; other times stuff just ups and vanishes before the hourglasses even appear. I suspect I'd feel the same about SARA's "fuel gauge". Give me the raw data any day.

...I find having the exact disk space info (from the (AVFS diagnostic screen) to be invaluable...Just curious, do you use this feature (going into diagnostics etc.) with both of your DVRs or is it only essential for the one not connected to the external drive?

Well SARA fuel Gauge or Passport diagnostics at least both have something.From what i'm reading Navigator has nothing.It seems Diana might want to return to the forum to give us any info she has. SARA 1.87.24

Just curious, do you use this feature (going into diagnostics etc.) with both of your DVRs or is it only essential for the one not connected to the external drive?

For both. It's actually more valuable on the "timeshifting" box because that's the one that's constantly having weekly programming going on and coming off, and only has that single 160GB drive. The other box just collects movies, but it's good to know precisely where I stand in terms of drive space. With the external drive, I've got about 600GB of space on that one; have already used up about 350GB. If they'd ever activate the firewire port, I could dump a lot of that content off to D-VHS tape.

Well SARA fuel Gauge or Passport diagnostics at least both have something.From what i'm reading Navigator has nothing.It seems Diana might want to return to the forum to give us any info she has. SARA 1.87.24

No way to get into the diagnostic areas in Navigator? Oh, that's not good. :( I have a very bad feeling about Navigator.... hope my TWC outlet holds off as long as possible - hopefully long enough to get some of these drawbacks ironed out and omissions reinstalled (if they're in fact still working on it).

Actually, I find having the exact disk space info (from the (AVFS diagnostic screen) to be invaluable. I figure about 5-6GB for an hour of HD recording, and about 2-3GB for SD. Armed with that info, I can schedule my recordings pretty accurately, even without a calculator. Much better than the hourglasses in the program list, which I don't find very helpful at all and which seem kind of arbitrary. Sometimes there is plenty of space available when they appear; other times stuff just ups and vanishes before the hourglasses even appear. I suspect I'd feel the same about SARA's "fuel gauge". Give me the raw data any day.

Maybe I should have said "easiest for most!" In no way do I disagree that real, actual data should NOT be hidden from us. And yes, I sometimes question the veracity of the "hourglass" system, but my experience is that it errs on a bit of "over-reporting" as in it claims space is needed when it might not be. One could say that's a bit over extra protection.

I think it also true that not every "hour of HD" will take up the exact amount of disk space. Exact in that the possible range of 5-6 may be a tad wider. I base this on years and years of work on still imagery and compression. Narrow gamut material compresses FAR more than wide gamut stuff.

No way to get into the diagnostic areas in Navigator? Oh, that's not good. :( I have a very bad feeling about Navigator.... hope my TWC outlet holds off as long as possible - hopefully long enough to get some of these drawbacks ironed out and omissions reinstalled (if they're in fact still working on it).

Hmmm, wasn't it in the NC market they've starting rolling out Navigator? Oh wait, I recall some guy with a non DVR box and a DVR box only getting it on the non DVR box, something like that.

Sure seems to me that the "filed trails" were started long before the software was in any form of decent shape. From comments I read, it sure looks like various things we have gotten used to are missing. Classic alpha software, and alpha software going to PRODUCTION/CUSTOMERS is just a totally wrong move, even in a business sense (guaranteed to earn you very upset customers). MORE so in this age where those upset customers can let ALL the folks who spring for huge monthly invoices know what's going on.

I think it also true that not every "hour of HD" will take up the exact amount of disk space. Exact in that the possible range of 5-6 may be a tad wider. I base this on years and years of work on still imagery and compression. Narrow gamut material compresses FAR more than wide gamut stuff.

Nevertheless, I find the amount of space taken up by any given hour of either SD or HD is remarkably consistent on the 8300, no matter the channel, based on a couple of years now of observation. For HD, it's never less than 5GB, never more than 6. Makes it easy to plan your recording schedule. But "pure" HD (compressed by MPEG2) OTA is about, what?, 9.4GB per hour, so about a third of the signal is "removed", either by the provider rate-shaping, or by the possible functional limitation of the 8300 to about 1290 lines of resolution, as has been measured and reported many times by various AVS'ers on these boards. Likely, both play a part.

You can get into the diagnostic screens of Navigator. Here is how.

1. Press and hold the Select button on Remote or Box, until the message light flashes

2. Press the down arrow. This brings up the diag screens as an overlay on the channel you are watching. You can change the brightness of the text by pressing the select button or power off box to display over a black screen.

3. Use the left and right arrows to page through the diag screens. Your Navigator version is on page 12, least it is on my SA2100 Non DVR box.

4. Press exit to leave diag screens.

Since I still have Passport on my DVR , I don't know if any of these screens tell you what free space is on the HD. Maybe one of the Lincoln users who has Navigator on their DVR could tell us if there is a free space indicator.

Score one tiny one for Navigator... it's a pain w/Passport because you have to get up, cross to the STB, get on your knees and press and hold 2 buttons, wait for "diagb", then press again ON the 8300! And yes, if you have it mounted on an eye level shelf, you don't have to do the "bending down" part!

Those are the same instructions for SARA, so it might be useful to check out some of the SARA Tips in Parts 1 & 2. :)

Nevertheless, I find the amount of space taken up by any given hour of either SD or HD is remarkably consistent on the 8300, no matter the channel, based on a couple of years now of observation. For HD, it's never less than 5GB, never more than 6. Makes it easy to plan your recording schedule. But "pure" HD (compressed by MPEG2) OTA is about, what?, 9.4GB per hour, so about a third of the signal is "removed", either by the provider rate-shaping, or by the possible functional limitation of the 8300 to about 1290 lines of resolution, as has been measured and reported many times by various AVS'ers on these boards. Likely, both play a part.

I was speculating generically, indeed observation would trump it!

Doesn't "lines of resolution" refer to vertical number of pixels? No video image I read about seems to go over 1080. Confused I am...

Nevertheless, I find the amount of space taken up by any given hour of either SD or HD is remarkably consistent on the 8300, no matter the channel, based on a couple of years now of observation. For HD, it's never less than 5GB, never more than 6. Makes it easy to plan your recording schedule. But "pure" HD (compressed by MPEG2) OTA is about, what?, 9.4GB per hour, so about a third of the signal is "removed", either by the provider rate-shaping, or by the possible functional limitation of the 8300 to about 1290 lines of resolution, as has been measured and reported many times by various AVS'ers on these boards. Likely, both play a part.Funny that you mention this - I've just collected a bunch of data from TW Rochester and find bit rate range widely for HD programs. I've found a high of 19.66Mbps (A&E HD) to a low of 7.26( UniversalHD)Mbps. HBO was surprising at around 12Mbps.

Here is a link to my posting in Rochester. (http://www.rochesterhdtv.com/showthread.php?t=3806)
It is entirely possible that other cable systems may more aggressively do rate-shaping, but what applies in NYC does not necessarily apply in Rochester - or anywhere else, for that matter.

I've never believed any statements about the 8300 being limited to 1290 lines of resolutions. There is an awful lack of understanding on resolution and lots of opportunities for that to show - particularly on the AVS where anyone can state anything - and they do.

The more I read about Navigator, the more likely it sounds like I'll be switching to DirecTV or Dish. The link above to the FAQ page in TWC Kansas City is a real eye opener. In additon to all the other shortcomings and bugs I read about previously, I can't believe there's no monitor of available DVR space/recording time. I've been with TWC for over 20 years and usually very happy, but this Navigator POS that they are thrusting on us appears to be a relationship ender.

For HD, it's never less than 5GB, never more than 6. ... But "pure" HD (compressed by MPEG2) OTA is about, what?, 9.4GB per hour, so about a third of the signal is "removed", either by the provider rate-shaping, or by the possible functional limitation of the 8300 to about 1290 lines of resolutionI can answer that first part for you - I record Time Warner HD signals regularly - Fox, NBC - the raw MPEG2 feed is dumped to my hard drive, it's not being filtered down (I use an OnAir tuner (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=695589&page=1&pp=30) specifically).

1 hour of HD is consistently 10-10.5gb.

So if it's turning that into 5-6gb it's dumping more than a third of that signal. One possibility is that it's just recompressing to another format like MPEG4 - I get similar savings or better by converting HD MPEG2 content to an MPEG4 format like XviD.

Lines of resolution refers to horizontal resolution. In professional publications it means lines per picture height, and converting to lines per picture width, used in consumer publications and here, requires multiplying lines/PH by 1.78 (16/9) to obtain lines/PW (HDTV resolution, or by 1.33 for standard width screens.) The lines are the number of alternating black and white vertical lines/PH or PW.

Besides the format resolutions, such as HD's 1920X1080, there's also an effective resolution (http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5667245&&#post5667245), or the resolvable detail. You can have an all-gray 1920X1080 image with zero effective resolution. Or, as outlined (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9304609&&#post9304609) recently with reference links, you might watch a telecined movie delivered at 1920X1080 but only providing somewhere between 800--1100 lines (video test pattern equivalent) maximum horizontal resolution. The 'missing' lines, say 1100--1920 aren't resolvable because the cinematography may have deliberately blurred them originally, or other electronic filtering along the complex delivery path could trim them. Digitally sampled 1080i HDTV has a limiting resolution, outlined at the effective resolution link above, of about 1700 lines because filtering is needed to prevent aliasing artifacts.

For some years many AVSers have reported measuring <1300 lines effective horizontal resolution using HDNet's Sunday 6:50 am ET resolution-wedge test patterns. I'm still measuring 1290 lines (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5175424#post5175424) with a year-2000 9"-gun CRT RPTV. Someone on my cable system, also using a SA8300HD, but with a new Sony Ruby 1080p FP, measured ~1335 lines (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8865051#post8865051). Spotted only one post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8509731&&#post8509731) from someone measuring close to 1920 lines.

Vertical resolution is the number of alternating B&W lines from screen top to bottom. That's the format resolution, and again there's an effective measurable vertical resolution (resolvable lines), which varies widely depending on motion taking place within image areas. Here's a table (http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=326565#post326565) showing measured resolutions for the mid-'90s approval of the ATSC format (derived from table 2.3 (http://www.atsc.org/news_information/papers/1995_acats/tsreport.pdf)). -- John

I can answer that first part for you - I record Time Warner HD signals regularly - Fox, NBC - the raw MPEG2 feed is dumped to my hard drive, it's not being filtered down (I use an OnAir tuner (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=695589&page=1&pp=30) specifically).

1 hour of HD is consistently 10-10.5gb.

So if it's turning that into 5-6gb it's dumping more than a third of that signal. One possibility is that it's just recompressing to another format like MPEG4 - I get similar savings or better by converting HD MPEG2 content to an MPEG4 format like XviD.

No, the 8300 does no further compression on an already compressed signal, so that can't be it. I still think it's the cable company's rate shaping and the resolution limitations of the box that are, together, robbing us of a third of the signal. Dave and I are going to have to agree to disagree on that one. :)

I still think it's the cable company's rate shapingIf it is, it's only happening out in NC and not out here in LA, because the raw feed coming from TimeWarner here is 10-10.5gb per hour, every time.

What leads you to be sure the incoming feed isn't recompressed? If its bandwidth is being reduced after it comes in from the wall, then no matter what the box is already doing the hard part of re-encoding it in some fashion.

I still think it's the cable company's rate shaping and the resolution limitations of the box that are, together, robbing us of a third of the signal. Dave and I are going to have to agree to disagree on that one. :)As I said, it can vary with the cable system - but please don't maintain that cable in general does this - when many systems clearly do not (per my data).

Cox-Phoenix takes what they get and passes it, period. Our CBS recently cut their bitrate from 17.9 down to the 14.5 range. Therefore, new recordings will not take as much space as they would have in the past.

Although some cableco's do rate-shape, possibly because they are trying to push 3 HD channels into the same 38.6 (or whatever the number is) QAM frequency, I suspect it's that the station is multicasting (like our CBS, ABC, and NBC do) and that is taking away from the HD.

Also, I've heard that many HDTVs cannot resolve the full 1920x1080 signal and I suspect that is where the rumor that the 8300 is at fault started.

The other thing that muddies the waters is that many stations now employ technology that allocates bandwidth on the fly. Using an average can get you close to a fuel gauge, but unless all stations broadcast at the same bitrate, a fuel guage is only an estimate.

Also, I've heard that many HDTVs cannot resolve the full 1920x1080 signal and I suspect that is where the rumor that the 8300 is at fault started.


That guy a few posts above, John Mason? Dude, he's got a CRT projector with 9" guns and that's what he's using to take those measurements on the resolution of the SA8300. That setup will resolve every last crumb of a 1080i signal. Don't get no better. :cool:

That guy a few posts above, John Mason? Dude, he's got a CRT projector with 9" guns and that's what he's using to take those measurements on the resolution of the SA8300. That setup will resolve every last crumb of a 1080i signal. Don't get no better. :cool:Not sure what point you are trying to make with the reference to John. More than one has said some HDTV's cannot resolve the full 1920, but others who have HDTVs that can, like John, have proven that it's not a limitation of the 8300, contrary to what some folks want to believe.

Not sure what point you are trying to make with the reference to John. More than one has said some HDTV's cannot resolve the full 1920, but others who have HDTVs that can, like John, have proven that it's not a limitation of the 8300, contrary to what some folks want to believe.
?? John says he gets 1290 lines.

Just to chip in a few cents worth on 8300HDs (or other STBs), 1290 vs 1920 line resolution, 9"-CRT vs 1080p displays, etc.:

Generally, the newer 1080p displays can resolve a full 1920X1080, providing the source is a non-sampled test pattern. As mentioned above, sampled motion video for HD programming has a limiting resolution of ~1700 lines; that is further reduced by MPEG decoding. The technical report linked above (table 2.3) predicted ~20% decoding horizontal resolution loss, but the measured result was ~15%. And 15% off 1700 lines is 1445, and often cited maximum--not a rigid limit--for 1080i/p HDTV.

Member vegggas, who engineering tests cable STBs, indicates that firmware for STBs can vary the resolution capabilities of the video-output circuits. The link above for my measured 1290-line output from a 8300HD (with NYC's TWC) also mentions I measured 1335 lines with a different (Motorola) converter and another cable system, and that I measured only 970 lines (!) with a briefly used SA8000HD, a STB with smaller memory and noted for lower-resolution output. And, besides STB capabilities, which could vary between cable systems, rate shaping involving requantization (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8011489&&#post8011489) can reduce resolution and varies between cable systems.

The linked 1335-line resolution measurement of a 1080p FP owner (Sony Ruby) within my cable system confirms the reduced readings isn't a limitation of my 9-inch-CRT RPTV. (A local ISFer measured 1280 lines using a plasma 1366X768 display.) Although 9-inch-CRT FPs can eek out ~1920 lines, suspect my CRT RPTV, which uses electrostatically focused instead of electromagnetically focused tubes like FPs, is limited to <1600 lines, a resolution measured with early Mitsubishi 9-inch-gun RPTVs. Haven't chased down a test pattern source to confirm that "limit"--if it is a limit with HD programs perhaps maxing out at ~1450--1600 lines, and most of them with considerably less resolvable details (see my telecined-movie link above). -- John

John,

I saw that I misread your post and I now see what archiguy was referring to. My question is are you or are you not saying the 8300 hardware itself is limited? My understanding of what vegggas has said is that the 8300 chipset is fully capable of 1920x1080, but is limited by all the other factors you mention. We all know that DirecTV's HDLite is 1440x1080 and many HDTVs being used today can't resolve even that. My Hitachi specs say it is limited to 1280x1080, so I should see no difference between cable and DirecTV despite HDLite, right?

Also, I don't have access to the HDNet test patterns or how they work, but if they are recorded via DirecTV, would they be limited to 1440x1080?

We only have to go to channel 611 here in KC for diag screen on Passport, but that channel is gone with Navigator. We also lost channel 380 and 381 which were both Disney east and west in digital feed.

I meant the full blown multiple series of screens... in my system, we can tune to a channel (happens to be 996) but that ONLY offers a single screen and the only useful info is the Passport version currently running.

Lines of resolution refers to horizontal resolution. In professional publications it means lines per picture height, and converting to lines per picture width, used in consumer publications and here, requires multiplying lines/PH by 1.78 (16/9) to obtain lines/PW (HDTV resolution, or by 1.33 for standard width screens.) The lines are the number of alternating black and white vertical lines/PH or PW.-- John

Well, let's agree that I may be a bit of a traditionalist as "lines of resolution" not too long ago referred to horizontal, not vertical lines. I believe it came from the fact that for CRTs, the electron gun painted the screen with horizontal, not vertical lines. Odd, it seems today in the fixed pixel era, TV's typical measurement is still in horizontal lines (480, 720, 768, 1080), even though there are no real "lines" in the way the image is produced.

Is there a way on Passport to "see" the bit-rate of a specific channel. I paged through all the 8300 DIAG screens, but only found one mention of "Mbs" and it was pegged at 20 for both HD and SD channels, so I doubt it was what I was looking for.

My question is are you or are you not saying the 8300 hardware itself is limited? My understanding of what vegggas has said is that the 8300 chipset is fully capable of 1920x1080, but is limited by all the other factors you mention.
Yes, believe that pegs it, but so far, from AVS posts I've seen, only one person (my link above), at a smaller Calif. cable system has measured ~1920 with a 8300HD on TWC with a 1080p RPTV. A bit on the slim pickings side for any broad conclusions IMO.
We all know that DirecTV's HDLite is 1440x1080 and many HDTVs being used today can't resolve even that. My Hitachi specs say it is limited to 1280x1080, so I should see no difference between cable and DirecTV despite HDLite, right? AIUI, DirecTV is still 1280X1080 format-wise. But, from the long HDLite threads, understand there's additional filtering. So it's a close call, IMO. Depends on what the cable STB/system is providing resolution-wise.

Also, I don't have access to the HDNet test patterns or how they work, but if they are recorded via DirecTV, would they be limited to 1440x1080?
Looks to me, from various reports, that downlinked from C-band etc. satellite (no further processing), they should provide 1920X1080. As mentioned just above, D*'s reformatting/filtering reduces that to 1280 lines or less. The measurement procedure I use is described in that 1290-result link above, and a sublink that shows what the HDNet pattern looks like. Sure wish Comcast would smoke the peace pipe with HDNet and D* banish HDLite so we could see lots more measurements! -- John

Thanks, John, I appreciate the info.

Well, let's agree that I may be a bit of a traditionalist as "lines of resolution" not too long ago referred to horizontal, not vertical lines. I believe it came from the fact that for CRTs, the electron gun painted the screen with horizontal, not vertical lines. Odd, it seems today in the fixed pixel era, TV's typical measurement is still in horizontal lines (480, 720, 768, 1080), even though there are no real "lines" in the way the image is produced.
The confusion sometimes arises because horizontal resolution is measured with vertical lines. Vertical resolution is measured with horizontal lines.

There's another distinction with computer graphics, measured and specified with distinct pixels (rows, columns), and video, which involves sampled images rather than computer-generated pixels.

Resolution is horizontal resolution, as I outlined initially above, and a CRT might horizontally resolve 1200-line motion video (maximum resolvable details per line), while a 1024X768 plasma could not. The 480, 720, etc. numbers sometimes used are the maximum format resolution (rows for fixed pixel displays; variable scan lines for CRTs). A maximum resolution specified for a SD display of, say, 800 lines, usually means 800 vertical B&W lines across a 4:3 screen width, which exceeds any SD delivery horizontal format resolution. -- John

I meant the full blown multiple series of screens... in my system, we can tune to a channel (happens to be 996) but that ONLY offers a single screen and the only useful info is the Passport version currently running.IIRC, kcmotwcuser is referring to --> on TWC-KC under Passport 1.8.112, tuning to the [diagnostic] channel gained access to the full diagnostic pages, where you could change pages (menu on left) and hit [some button I forget] to change opacity (and view the previous channel underneath), the tuner page information was based on the last channels for each tuner.

I thought the channel only appeared once the [diagnostic button-sequence procedure] was performed, and it may have reset after some [boot type]. But, I only ever remember performing it once, so it may have always been active and the [button sequence] may have been unnecessary there. Or, I may have just rarely re-booted. :)

v/r,
C-F

Is there a way on Passport to "see" the bit-rate of a specific channel. I paged through all the 8300 DIAG screens, but only found one mention of "Mbs" and it was pegged at 20 for both HD and SD channels, so I doubt it was what I was looking for.
For programs, not channels, this involves measuring the hard drive free space, AIUI, then recording a show and reading it again from DVR diagnostics. Here's one procedure (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8584806&&#post8584806) I tucked into a Notepad folder. Some old notes indicate 256 QAM cable slots (6-MHz wide) handle ~40 Mbps, while 64 QAM slots handle ~27 Mbps. With statistical multiplexing, of course, there's a constant shift of bit rates between channels assigned to a frequency slot, depending on how much action and detail exists at each split-second within each channel. There's one MPEG diagnostic page where you can watch the constant MPEG fluctuations for a cable slot/frequency. -- John

On Friday, I sent an email to TWC here in Columbus with a list of Navigator DVR shortcomings, and recd the following response:

"We are waiting to do this software upgrade until probably around the end
of March so that we can address concerns such as these. We are confident
that these differences will be addressed and changed before the launch of
this new navigator."

I sure hope so!

For programs, not channels, this involves measuring the hard drive free space, AIUI, then recording a show and reading it again from DVR diagnostics. Here's one procedure (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8584806&&#post8584806) I tucked into a Notepad folder. Some old notes indicate 256 QAM cable slots (6-MHz wide) handle ~40 Mbps, while 64 QAM slots handle ~27 Mbps. With statistical multiplexing, of course, there's a constant shift of bit rates between channels assigned to a frequency slot, depending on how much action and detail exists at each split-second within each channel. There's one MPEG diagnostic page where you can watch the constant MPEG fluctuations for a cable slot/frequency. -- John

Ugh, yes I know about calculating, major PIA. My five year old, super el cheapo DVD player has an info screen function that displays a constantly updated bit stream measurement so we're not talking rocket science here.

What was your list of shortcomings that you sent to them?
Here's a summary of what I sent them (based on both forum postings and the TWC KansasCity website FAQ):

Major Complaints:
* It does not tell you how much recording time/space is used/available and if it is full new programs will not record (with no warning). That is simply not acceptable.
* Series Recording no longer has time or day selection.
* Some people have reporting losing all of their saved shows and/or series recording schedules when the upgrade is installed.
* No confirmation step before deleting a recording (one touch and a show is deleted; no chance to cancel a mistake).
* No auto-jump back after fast forwarding (you have to manually back up to point where commercials ended.)
* Several second time delay in loading guide.

Minor Complaints:
* The progress meter that appears at the bottom of the screen when you FF, RW, or Pause is huge (it takes up 1/4 of the lower part for the screen). And, you also can't change the time the banners stay on the screen (whereas Passport allowed Fast, Normal, & Slow durations.)
* Only minutes (no seconds) in the progress meter when fast forwarding or rewinding.
* Graphically, the new Navigator looks poor on HD TV’s with larger screens (blocky, bad colors, etc.)
* Keyword search is gone

At least from their email reply, it does sound like TWC is addressing some of Navigators shortcomings before fully releasing it to more cities, but I'm not holding my breath.

I also spoke to a TWCMidOhio CustSrv rep today about Navigator (I called about something else, but asked if she was involved in testing and she said yes). I asked if she had noticed some of these, and she brushed them off. Her answers fell along the lines of: 1) they didn't affect how she uses her DVR; 2) She didn't notice the problem; or 3) the issue doesn't bother her and she loves the upgrade. She sounded young, blonde, and brainwashed. She also doesn't appear to use her DVR much, since she said its never near full so the lack of available time/space indicator doesn't mean anything to her.

I am researching satellite options and pricing. I really like that DishNetwork and DirectTV HD-DVRs can record 3 or 4 shows at once when also hooked up to an OTA (cuz the networks always put all the best shows on at the same time). I also really like that DN's HD-DVR can operate two TV's (I hate paying for two STBs and two DVR service fees to TWC). I'd probably also have to switch to AT&T for phone and DSL (which I'm leery about) if I dropped cable TV since I'd lose the bundling discounts. I do have a great price for my digital cable with all the premium channels. Overall prices are pretty similar between cable and satellite when you get all the channels. And, I also have to weigh satellite's weather outage issues with the fact that I haven't had a single cable outage in several years, and I have always had good service experiences with TWC. It's a complicated decision.

On Friday, I sent an email to TWC here in Columbus with a list of Navigator DVR shortcomings, and recd the following response:

"We are waiting to do this software upgrade until probably around the end
of March so that we can address concerns such as these. We are confident
that these differences will be addressed and changed before the launch of
this new navigator."

I sure hope so!

NO HOPE

They dumped there POS navigator here a couple of months ago (Lincoln Ne.)

I have had many conversations in person and over the phone concerning the incredible list of short comings/missing features and all I ever get is 'DON'T BLAME US, BLAME THE FCC" and 'WE ARE WORKING ON IT'....

I talked to Bruce Ubbin of TWC Lincoln (I was told he could get something done) I suggested a good place to start is with the old guide and work up from there....

Bottom line, TWC makes sure everything is working properly with BILLING & RATE HIKES!

Husker

I have had many conversations in person and over the phone concerning the incredible list of short comings/missing features and all I ever get is 'DON'T BLAME US, BLAME THE FCC" and 'WE ARE WORKING ON IT'....


What on earth does the FCC have to do with them insisting on implementing an interface on their DVR's that's a significant step back from what they have now?

Both PASSPORT and SARA 1.89.17 both seem superior to NAVIGATOR.I think PASSPORT users would perfer the new improved SARA to NAVIGATOR.(Just my opinion)

What on earth does the FCC have to do with them insisting on implementing an interface on their DVR's that's a significant step back from what they have now?

They (TWC Management...IMO) have instructed there front line employees to blame the FCC for them having to switch to the POS we have had to live with the last couple of months...

When I have called to get help with the unbelievable non-stop problems with there new software I always ask "Why did you get rid of the good/old version" and no mater who you talk with it's the same old SPIN...THE FCC MADE US...Very lame to pass the blame IMO,,,,,,,,,,

HH

They (TWC Management...IMO) have instructed there front line employees to blame the FCC for them having to switch to the POS we have had to live with the last couple of months...

When I have called to get help with the unbelievable non-stop problems with there new software I always ask "Why did you get rid of the good/old version" and no mater who you talk with it's the same old SPIN...THE FCC MADE US...Very lame to pass the blame IMO,,,,,,,,,,

HH

That's just ridiculous. No way the FCC could possibly have anything to do with it. It shows how little they think of their customers, that they'd come up with that lame-o excuse for pushing a software package out that's so clearly not ready for prime-time. What's the rush? Fix it before you deploy it, fercryinoutloud! It's amazing what the public has been conditioned to accept when it comes to bad software; stuff like this would never be allowed to happen in any other business (especially if there were true competition in said business).

Unbelievable. :rolleyes:

...stuff like this would never be allowed to happen in any other business (especially if there were true competition in said business)...I do not know about that... The Dollar Store, [$5 import tool bin], Harbor Freight and Chicago Tools seem to do enough business to stay afloat, even with lots of choices and plenty of quality alternatives.

Some people do not seem to want to "get all dressed up like [they are] going to Wal-Mart or something."


v/r,
C-F

http://www.pictub.com/users/2005/08/15/Justbilly/albums/misc2/photos/mightbea.jpg

That's just ridiculous. No way the FCC could possibly have anything to do with it.



Well, what they are referring to is the FCC mandate for opening cable - but they have had plenty of time to do this - plus there is a OCAP version of Passport anyway.

xnappo

...plus there is a OCAP version of Passport anyway.

xnappo

Really (kinda hard to believe as Passport is pretty old, and AFAIK, OCAP specifications are very, very recent)? Still, the "reasoning" from TWC that sure seems 100% to me is that Passport doesn't support SDV. Especially NOW with the rather outrageous claims satellite is making, bandwidth must be addressed even from a straight business standpoint. Anyway, it's all moot as it's clear all of us are destined to get a single, OCAP, SDV capable IPG called Navigator.

Well, I think there is an OCAP version being developed/tested, but that applies to just about every DVR software package out there. I don't know of any that are ready to be deployed yet. Heck, I'm not even sure any cableco has an OCAP platform ready to go yet, though they are all working on it. I personally think SDV and DST might be the bigger reasons for "premature" release, though there seem to be indications that there is a DST version of Passport available.

I am very pleased with SARA 1.89.18.Has anyone with SARA had NAVIGATOR forced onto them yet?I love all the new SARA features and would hate to lose them in 3 or 4 months which seems likely.How could TWC launch a new guide that now has less features than the old SARA now that the new SARA has real DVR features.A SAD STATE OF AFFAIRS.NAVIGATOR should be retooled before any kind of launch.

(A) How could TWC launch a new guide that now has less features than the old SARA now that the new SARA has real DVR features.

(B) NAVIGATOR should be retooled before any kind of launch.

(A) $$$MONEY$$$

(B) It already landed here....CRASH LANDED....

Husker

Here is a LINK (http://journalstar.com/articles/2007/02/10/news/local/doc45cd0b566dd31679004395.txt#blogcomments) to a article (02/10/07) in our local newspaper,,,also notice that they have received 114 replies.

HH

TWC seems to do the latter, tweak it, push it out and wait for calls from customers to see if it was fixed or if the feature is used. Wait until Navigator is lauched in larger markets like LA and NYC. I bet it will be more stable than the small market like Lincoln who doesn't have another cable company to move right up to take the unhappy customers of their hands. I bet Dish, Direct TV and AT&T are mopping up in Lincoln right now.

Agree 100%. Although, the "tweak" part hardly ever happens (in software, "tweak" to me means a very slight refinement of a feature or more generally, nothing that is visible to the end user, but something that is more efficient in the software).

What I DO know is that even in the NYC market, it seems software is rolled out in small communities in the boroughs ~2-3 months (from past history, a part of Staten Island and a part of Queens) before the entire city gets it.

That has been the biggest complaint on all cable systems, the lack of timely bug fixes, enhancements, etc. There are generally reasons for all this, particularly the reluctance of cableco's to release new versions that only introduce new or worse bugs, but none of those reasons help the end-user. I actually applaud TWCs effort to move development and control in-house, but it certainly seems like they once again pushed an unfinished product out the door, just like SA did with SARA. I'm sure they are up against a time crunch because of SDV and other initiatives, but it seems like they could have kept Passport in play until Navigator was more complete. It's rather obvious they have to ability to run both and could easily have asked for volunteer beta testers, provided them with a 2nd 8300 at no cost, and the end result would have been much less turmoil for users and a lot fewer defections.

Ive got TWC in rochester, NY. got the SA8300HD DVR box.. works ok.. (Not as good as tivo!)

What is the Explorer/Passport/SARA stuff people are mentioning? the software on the box?

(never bothered to figure out what its running)

TWC needs to get some real software. in todays age of high tech etc.. they are using software and guides etc that look worse than a SNES could do.

And how about season pass like tivo? how about undelete like tivo... hell i would be happy if it didnt erase things on its own! or tell me its recording stuff when it isnt.. or recording something that never shows in the list.. or how about make it EASIER TO GET OFF THE DVR PLAYBACK CHANNEL! and... hmmm.. maybe have it remember where it was in each program!??

If the tivo HD wernt $800 id get it in a heartbeat. tivo's software spanks TWC.

Ive got TWC in rochester, NY. got the SA8300HD DVR box.. works ok.. (Not as good as tivo!)

What is the Explorer/Passport/SARA stuff people are mentioning? the software on the box?

(never bothered to figure out what its running)


then for the courtesy of everyone else you need make the effort.

then for the courtesy of everyone else you need make the effort.
ok.. so.. being new to this.. how do I determine what its running?

ok.. so.. being new to this.. how do I determine what its running?

Start here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=581843

It will take you to most of what you need to know.

Navigator is the replacement software for TWC markets and the subject of this thread. Knowing what you are currently running will have a big impact on what you think about Navigator and what you can expect to hear in this thread.

Thanks! I will take a look

Navigator is the replacement software for TWC markets and the subject of this thread.
Actually, that's not entirely true. Talking about Navigator is what this thread has become. From Diana in the very first post:
In this new role I will be concentrating on our new interactive programming guide (Mystro Digital Navigator), SDV, Digital Simulcast, HD and other associated video product developments.

I am starting a new thread with the specific thought to receive customer input on what consumers would like to see TWC provide through the video product.

I am a TWC customer out in the LA area (formerly Adelphia and therefore on a Moto system). I started watching this thread at the very beginning hoping it would be a place where all aspects of TWC could be discussed and suggestions could be made, agnostic of platform or geographic location. It quickly became a discussion of solely the SA platform and Diana quickly disappeared. I still continue watching the thread hoping that something good will come of it, but I don't have my hopes up.

I guess the moral is, look at the thread title, not what is actually being discussed. I have no problem with people discussing Navigator and such here, but be aware, that at this point, it is probably falling on deaf ears as far as anyone from TWC listening is concerned.

Actually, that's not entirely true. Talking about Navigator is what this thread has become.

I guess the moral is, look at the thread title, not what is actually being discussed. I have no problem with people discussing Navigator and such here, but be aware, that at this point, it is probably falling on deaf ears as far as anyone from TWC listening is concerned.

True, this thread is mostly about Navigator but the reason for that is all of the video related services from TWC are (or will be very shortly) funneled through Navigator and it's abilities. You can't have one without the other now.

The other reason is that Diana vetoed all other consumer input right off the bat. Programming, lineups, market differences etc.

I also think this thread was too little, too late. What was the point of asking for opinions on a TWC IPG when it was already built? They should have asked us about this a year ago before it started hitting markets.

True, this thread is mostly about Navigator but the reason for that is all of the video related services from TWC are (or will be very shortly) funneled through Navigator and it's abilities. You can't have one without the other now.

The other reason is that Diana vetoed all other consumer input right off the bat. Programming, lineups, market differences etc.

I also think this thread was too little, too late. What was the point of asking for opinions on a TWC IPG when it was already built? They should have asked us about this a year ago before it started hitting markets.

I'd have a hard time believing that I will ever see Navigator running on my Moxi box, or even the other Moto boxes that TWC distributes. I know that with the upcoming spearation of encryption and boxes, things will change, but I was under the impression that the Navigator platform was destined for SA boxes.

I'd have a hard time believing that I will ever see Navigator running on my Moxi box, or even the other Moto boxes that TWC distributes. I know that with the upcoming spearation of encryption and boxes, things will change, but I was under the impression that the Navigator platform was destined for SA boxes.

If you're lucky you'll be the last to see it, but it's coming.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8464332&&#post8464332

If you're lucky you'll be the last to see it, but it's coming.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8464332&&#post8464332

Oh dear. I recant my statement and fear for the very soul of my Moxi box and my TV :eek:

I guess the FCC made Comcast carry TIVO. Greensboro NC SARA 1.89.17.1

When CSRs say FCC, I'd assume they are talking about the DTV transition in general and blaming the FCC for any and all problems related to any facet of the transition, including initiatives, like SDV, etc., that are not mandated at all. From that perspective they are probably right, but that sure is taking the blame game to the extreme.

When CSRs say FCC, I'd assume they are talking about the DTV transition in general and blaming the FCC for any and all problems related to any facet of the transition, including initiatives, like SDV, etc., that are not mandated at all. From that perspective they are probably right, but that sure is taking the blame game to the extreme.
Dave, I believe that the "FCC" issue is that the FCC long ago mandated that cable no longer provide STBs that had "Integrated Security". The intent was to enable consumer owned equipment that could decrypt "premium" programming. There have been numerous delays in the implementation of that order and the current date is July 1, 2007. The FCC has made pretty clear that they don't intend to move that date again.

The initial approach for this was to develop CableCard, but that has run into problems as cable started using more two way services (On Demand, StartOver, SDV, etc.). Cable then started to recognize that the solution was really software based and development started (OCAP) on a software system that could be implemented on customer owned equipment. Progress has been slow (far too slow) and Digital Navigator is part of the OCAP "solution".

Either cable gets OCAP out there by July 1 (ain't going to happen), or they start providing their cable boxes with CableCard slots (and with CableCards) or, stop providing new STBs to customers. This last alternative isn't going to happen either.

As part of their pleas to the FCC, cable has been trying to "sell" OCAP as the solution and they (cable) have been trying to make progress ASAP (to make up for years of doing little). So they are "jamming" Navigator down the throats of certain systems. So, as distant as it seems, the FCC is at fault here because they are not doing cable's bidding by moving the ban on "Integrated Security" again (but cable really does have the CableCard "out" - except they claim that costs them $150 or so extra per box).

Cable then started to recognize that the solution was really software based and development started (OCAP) on a software system that could be implemented on customer owned equipment. Progress has been slow (far too slow) and Digital Navigator is part of the OCAP "solution".

Ah, I didn't understand that it was part of the "OCAP motivation." What I saw when I first stared reading about it seemed to be all about them having an ability to sell us more stuff (an admittedly cynical view). Still, I DO understand none of this is that simplistic, a single, unified software platform is also just as "worthy" a goal, both to them and to customers. Plus enabling SDV to current Passport customers.

As for Diana, my view is that she got to a small list of the most requests then probably left because the thread became a general TWC bashing one. Her opening request was about what video services did we want to see.

Dave, I believe that the "FCC" issue is that the FCC long ago mandated that cable no longer provide STBs that had "Integrated Security"....................(but cable really does have the CableCard "out" - except they claim that costs them $150 or so extra per box).You are absolutely right, I forgot about the "reasons" behind OCAP. I understand the reluctance of the FCC to move the date again, but forcing cableco's to spend a significant amount on an interim solution when a better solution is fairly close seems short-sighted and punitive to me.

Reaching back to the original intent of this thread, as well as voicing my concern over the impending transition, these are functionality aspects that I would like to see Navigator improve over or retain from my current SA8300/Passport setup:

Eliminate FF and RW and other DVR comand latency.
I'm very surprised that this has only been mentioned by a handful of posters. The system works like junk in comparison to Tivo or other present and former competing platforms. Seriously, a Tivo of ten years ago completely outclassed TWC's DVR of today. I think perhaps many users haven't experienced anything better, but there is a world where getting to the third FF speed happens seemlesly instead of watching the system stutter everytime you hit a button. Certainly whenever I have guests who own a Tivo they are surprised at how clunky the TWC DVR is. To me this is at the top of the list of issues to address.

Keyword Search
Obviously loosing this would be terrible

Series Record Options
I think the Passport version I'm running on my 8300 has pretty much all the options I need. Eliminating options to choose day/time/channel would make it implausible to record something like Seinfeld.

Manual Record
This too must be retained

Side Bars
Totally outrageous that three years after the 8300 rolled out in NYC there still isn't an option to watch anything other than grey bars. This is so disrespectful of its customers. It is not pleasant to watch grey bars, it seriously detracts from the viewing experience. And I own a plasma, this must be completely infuriating to those who own DLP's. Every box should give the user a choice of black bars or grey - prefereably both a light and dark shade of grey. How hard can that be???

Control DVR Remotely
This would be huge! (unless there is a $3.95/month charge for it)

Show Free Hard Drive Capacity
I don't car eif you show free gigabytes or show approximate time until a recording is deleted, but this is a must (and it would be better if the user had both pieces of information).

Comprehensive Guide Info
14 days of data. No more generic descriptions such as "30 minutes". List the teams playing on sports packages in the top level, not in the information.

FF Jump Back
I actually think this should be an option that can be turned on and off. Obviously a lot of people are used to this. I'm used to it now too, but once upon a time I had a system that started from the point you hit play and it worked great. I've really I' just learned how to anticipate how far back the program is going to skip with my 8300. I'd rather not have to play that anticipation game. My reflexes aren't shot, I'd like the program to resume from where I press play. The only solution is to make it an option that the user can turn on or off.

15 Minute Jump and Slow Motion
I see these touted in the Navigator information. Obviously these won't be new to Passport users. But it looks like the 15 minute skip is now going to require an extra button push (hitting Select), that's too bad. And if hitting play just once (as opposed to hitting it twice with Passport) puts the program in slow motion, then how can I ever see where I am in time shifted or recorded programs without changing the playback speed?

Better Zoom Options
Specifically, it would be very useful to have a zoom that fits double letter boxed programs (i.e. letter boxed on both the sides and top and bottom) to a 16:9 screen. When I watch The Sopranos on demand I'd like to fill my screen without losing part of the picture.

Slow Down the 'Turbo' Scan on the Guide
When moving through the Passport IPG the options are to press the arrow for each and every time slot, or hold down the arrow and the guide zooms through the time slots so fast you can't see anything. If I need to see what's in the guide several days from now, I can use the "day" arrow. If I want to see what's on in the next eight hours ahead I'd like to hold down the arrow and scan through at a quick but reasonable pace.

Fix the PIP
Putting the PIP window in the middle of a 16:9 screen renders the function close to useless. There should be a setting that puts PIP at the edge of the screen when viewing a 16:9 set. Better yet, give users full control over the size and placement of the PIP window. I wouldn't complain about split screen either.

To my suprise Sara 1.89 has many of the features you would want.

Eli, you are the first person I've ever heard complain about the auto-back-up after fast forwarding. Even with the best reflexes, when fast forwarding there's no way anyone can press play quick enuf upon seeing the show resume so as not to miss anything. I love the auto back up, but could get used to pressing the jump-back button instead of play after a ffwd thru commercials (I do that when using my parents DishNetwork dvr). Your suggestion to be able to turn the auto-back-up feature on or off is a good one though.

I would like to have it back as Navigator doesn't have it.

I know I suggested this before - but why not just use the 'instant replay' button to stop the FFWD?

xnappo

Eli, you are the first person I've ever heard complain about the auto-back-up after fast forwarding. Even with the best reflexes, when fast forwarding there's no way anyone can press play quick enuf upon seeing the show resume so as not to miss anything. I love the auto back up, but could get used to pressing the jump-back button instead of play after a ffwd thru commercials (I do that when using my parents DishNetwork dvr). Your suggestion to be able to turn the auto-back-up feature on or off is a good one though.


I think maybe my problem is the DVR system is so jittery that the jump back just makes it more difficult to predict the right time to hit play. If comands were executed seemlessly and instantly, I'd probably appreciate the jump back. But I'd like to decide for myself, and I'm certain I don't need jump back on anything but the fastest of the three FF speeds. I understand that for most people having no jump back feature is terrible.

I'm really surprised that there aren'tt more comments the jittery nature of the DVR. I'd be be nice to see feature such as a widescreen IPG, but I'm sort of shocked that so many posters have asked for that and so few have asked that and so few have asked that TWC bring its DVR up to par with what Tivo offered almost ten years ago.

I know I suggested this before - but why not just use the 'instant replay' button to stop the FFWD?

xnappo

IR does not back up far enough when you are in X3...

HH

That will work too, but you have to retrain youself to use it, and it only gets you 8 seconds as Passport gave you about 15 seconds or I think it was a mutiplier depending on which FF speed you were using. But I am not sure, I will have to check that out on my DVR again at home.

It's a multiplier of the FF speed. The faster you're going with FF, the further back the "jump back" feature goes when you hit "play" again. I actually find the one for the 4x speed to be more accurate in terms of getting back to exactly when the commercial stops than the one for the 3x speed, where I usually have to RR a little bit to get to the right point.