I've seen several movies on superbit: Das Boot, Cliffhanger, Dracula and all of them look about average meaning better than 1999 DVDs but not as good as newly released DVDs. Does anybody else have the same opinion? I only mention this because I found a place with superbit DVDs on sale and I was wondering if I should buy Black Hawk Down superbit or the newly released extended edition.

I suspect that "Superbit" was cream of the crop and reference quality when first launched (plus, they have DTS, which is still sadly lacking on most DVDs), but from what I've read, the bar and expectations and technology have been raised and a lot of non-Superbit DVDs (of course, it's a brand name, so not everyone can make "Superbit" anyway) are high quality just as a matter of course.

If you do a search for the word "superbit" in this forum, you'll find much previous discussion on the subject.

I found a place with superbit DVDs on sale and I was wondering if I should buy Black Hawk Down superbit or the newly released extended edition.

In the event that the Superbit DVD's are cheap enough, then why not get them? I could see if it was double the price or something (Saying to yourself: "Is it worth it?") but if the sale you found is a cheap enough price...why not?

We really should have a Superbit sticky- new people come along all the time and have the same questions... basically, "Superbit" means that an existing transfer was put on DVD using the highest bitrate they could get, so in theory it's the best representation they could do of that transfer. It doesn't mean the transfer itself is perfect. Some, like 5th Element were indeed considered reference, at least at one point. Some, like Bram Stoker's Dracula are still pretty grainy and not really all that great, though they are still better than the original DVDs!! A lot of them still have halos- apparently it was an artifact caused by Sony's compression algorithm and no Columbia DVD is really free of them, Superbit or not.

After posting this I found the thread of 'reference DVDs' approved by AVS Forum members and Dracula -superbit- as well as a lot of superbit DVDs were on the list. Is that an old list?

I still can't decide between Black Hawk Down superbit vs extended edition. I have a feeling the extended edition has a better transfer (maybe no dts but thats not to important).

Huh... I didn't know Dracula was on the list!! I wouldn't have it on there myself...
I just can't say about the BHD situation unfortunately. I doubt there is a world of difference but if the Extended Edition has a much longer running time or a lot of stuff crammed on the disk there could very well be... maybe someone who has both will chime in.

I have Bram Stoker's Dracula and I actually watched it again on my A-1. LOTR:EE beats it pretty handily. TFE Superbit is better than the BD in clarity IMO. Superbit are generally better than the standard versions, but I would read reviews before purchasing.

Some Superbit's are better than others. Spiderman Superbit looked really good, much better than the original release, but the Spiderman 2 Superbit to me looked worse than the original 2-disc release, seems like they blew out the contrast too much which reduced the amount of visible detail, sometimes bitrate isn't everything.

This is getting tiring. We should take one of the really long old Superbit threads and make it sticky. All this has been said before, even the specific individual titles being mentioned...

I think the Extreme Edition of Terminator 2 is one of the best looking DVDs I've seen, but I still have an untrained eye, so I could be wrong. Regardless, it's not a Superbit - not that it ever could be - and it's cheaper than all-get-out right now, and it even comes with a second disc which features the movie in high definition. (I'm not sure if it's actual HD or just running in a higher resolution, but from what I've watched of it, it's a nice addition.)

Most important thing about Blackhawk Down is the special features. If you want them at the expense of DTS, then get the new one, if you dont care and want DTS, get the SB.

Well, the 75th anniversary reissue of Dracula (1931) has an Average Bitrate of 8.8 mb/s. That's pretty good, isn't it? What is the highest possible bitrate? If this is near the top, it just shows that higher bitrates are becoming the norm, and Superbit has outlived its time. (Of course, it could be that B&W movies have less video information, so a high bitrate is easier to achieve with less compression. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about!)

This is getting tiring. We should take one of the really long old Superbit threads and make it sticky. All this has been said before, even the specific individual titles being mentioned...

Let me fill you in on a secret: Forums are for people who like to chat about stuff.

Well, the 75th anniversary reissue of Dracula (1931) has an Average Bitrate of 8.8 mb/s. That's pretty good, isn't it? What is the highest possible bitrate? If this is near the top, it just shows that higher bitrates are becoming the norm, and Superbit has outlived its time. (Of course, it could be that B&W movies have less video information, so a high bitrate is easier to achieve with less compression. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about!)


That's basically maxxed out.

Higher bitrate does not automatically mean the picture quality will be the best, but obviously using much lower bitrates does necessarily mean that eventually you're going to start suffering image Q losses.

Sometimes a DVD with slightly lower bitrate will be better than one with a higher bitrate (of the same content), but of course a DVD with a very low bitrate is just going to suck no matter what, basically.

Superbit had always outlived its time. It's really a testament to the fact that studios didn't feel like PQ and audio quality were of paramount concerns universally.

Great and not-so-great transfers can be found everywhere. Generally Superbit transfers are of very good to excellent quality though. Equally excellent transfers can also be found elsewhere.

Equally excellent transfers can also be found elsewhere.

Would Once Upon A Time In Mexico fall into that category? I can't imagine an SD-DVD looking a whole lot better than the normal version of it, Superbit included.

Would Once Upon A Time In Mexico fall into that category? I can't imagine an SD-DVD looking a whole lot better than the normal version of it, Superbit included.

I recall the regular DVD of that not looking very good...

Let me fill you in on a secret: Forums are for people who like to chat about stuff.


lol!! :D

htomei

as for superbit I've been looking at the release dates and if the superbit came out before the major retail release then I would tend to go for the retail since newer usually means better transfer/quality. An example of this I would assume is Mask of Zorro SB which was released in 2002 I think and the special edition was released in 2005. I've seen the SB playing in some stores and it didn't look that spectacular and I'm going to try and rent the special edition to prove my theory.

As for reference discs, I think the list should only be the creme de la creme with like 5 discs total. Reference discs should be those that are ULTIMATE, as if you were trying to convince an old person to upgrade from VHS to DVD and really wanted to impress them and make a sale. I used to hear Matrix as a reference disc but its not on the list. I wonder if there is another place online that creates reference disc lists especially now that next gen DVDs are available and of varying quality.

Wouldn't it be great if we could an amazon.com style of rating where people post the movie and then members can vote "yes" or "no" on reference discs. That way it would differenciate what is actually the best of the best. :)

The Fifth Element....even the original version which was only 3.8 gigs or so in size and shipped on a DVD5 is still considered to be one of the ultimate examples of what DVD can offer. The superbit release (and more recent SE version, which has the SB encode on it) is even better, but the old original DVD-5 version holds up even today.

The Matrix was never a reference disc...it was just filled with lots of cool scenes to show of fyour new 5.1 surround system :) Forget the fact that the entire movie is poorly mastered with a massive green push for the "matrix" scenes. The second release of the movie, only available in the boxed disk set, corrects for this..but again...only in the boxed set version.

There are lists of reference-quality DVD's out there already.......

There are also websites that compare superbit to non-superbit releases. In most cases, the differences are VERY subtle....like Dracula....Dracula Superbit is like...almost the exact same bitrate as the original pressing, and still contains all the same picture flaws :D

Some, like StarShip Troopers and Fifth Element are supposedly a little sharper in the visual department....I think I own one Superbit dvd...SILVERADO. I saw it at Circuit City in the $8.99 bin one day and picked it up, never watched it....

I own a few Superbit DVD's (Cliffhanger, The Patriot, The Professional, Starship Troopers, and Closer) and they're all pretty damn clear.

The Fifth Element....even the original version which was only 3.8 gigs or so in size and shipped on a DVD5 is still considered to be one of the ultimate examples of what DVD can offer. The superbit release (and more recent SE version, which has the SB encode on it) is even better, but the old original DVD-5 version holds up even today.

The Matrix was never a reference disc...it was just filled with lots of cool scenes to show of fyour new 5.1 surround system :) Forget the fact that the entire movie is poorly mastered with a massive green push for the "matrix" scenes. The second release of the movie, only available in the boxed disk set, corrects for this..but again...only in the boxed set version.
Disagree on both counts. I thought the first version of Fifth Element was miserable and was very happy to have a Superbit edition.

It's the boxset version of the Matrix that has that green push. The original DVD was a terrible transfer but the boxset version, while infinitely sharper and cleaner, is almost unwatchable from the green Matrix and blue Real World tints. Anytime Neo is on screen, his stubble is entirely green. As far as I'm concerned, there is no good version of Matrix on DVD, picture wise.

Disagree on both counts. I thought the first version of Fifth Element was miserable and was very happy to have a Superbit edition.

Well congratulations, its apparrantly you versus the world on this one ;)


It's the boxset version of the Matrix that has that green push. The original DVD was a terrible transfer but the boxset version, while infinitely sharper and cleaner, is almost unwatchable from the green Matrix and blue Real World tints.


See Here: Old Matrix (ie: the Green One) is on the left.

http://dvd.ign.com/articles/566/566215p1.html

The Boxset matrix is way superior in tone than the original release.

It's the boxset version of the Matrix that has that green push. The original DVD was a terrible transfer but the boxset version, while infinitely sharper and cleaner, is almost unwatchable from the green Matrix and blue Real World tints. Anytime Neo is on screen, his stubble is entirely green. As far as I'm concerned, there is no good version of Matrix on DVD, picture wise.

Sorry HeadRusch, but I have to agree with this; the green color correction on the remastered boxset DVD was over the top and made it very difficult to watch. I can only hope they tone it down on the HD-DVD release, though it will most likely be the same transfer.

I picked up the Desperado Superbit the other day and I think it looks great, though I haven't seen the original DVD. I also picked up Air Force One and it's got a pretty good picture, but the DTS soundtrack is what's worth the purchase on both.

You can see from the Lobby Shootout that the gray walls in the better boxset version now have a greenish tint. The boxset edition looks boatloads better, sure, but it definitely added a green and blue tint that was not present in the original theatrical presentation or DVD. The original DVD was representative of the theatrical presentation, but it was low quality, early transfer and it shows.

anyone have problems with their Leon: The Professional suberbit DVD? mines perfect except for like 2 or 3 chapters (when matilda goes back to her apartment to get the money out of the floorboards) there are really bad interlacing artifacts at 1:05:20 into the movie (according to VLC player), and they dissappear a couple of chapters later, it appears that the framerate goes up to 30 for these couple of chapters, and the back down to 24, anyone else seeing/seen this problem?

anyone have problems with their Leon: The Professional suberbit DVD? mines perfect except for like 2 or 3 chapters (when matilda goes back to her apartment to get the money out of the floorboards) there are really bad interlacing artifacts at 1:05:20 into the movie (according to VLC player), and they dissappear a couple of chapters later, it appears that the framerate goes up to 30 for these couple of chapters, and the back down to 24, anyone else seeing/seen this problem?

the DVD is a mismash of combinations of video and film flagging (30 fps vs 24 fps) and keeps turning the progressive flag on and off.

Whether you see this or not depends on what DVD player you have and how well it deals with changing video/film/prgressive/non-progressive flags.

On my oppo971, I don't see it. On my very old Toshiba, almost unwatchable.

GB

the DVD is a mismash of combinations of video and film flagging (30 fps vs 24 fps) and keeps turning the progressive flag on and off.

Whether you see this or not depends on what DVD player you have and how well it deals with changing video/film/prgressive/non-progressive flags.

On my oppo971, I don't see it. On my very old Toshiba, almost unwatchable.

GB
so on a crappy player this happens through the whole movie? if this is the case it's kind of strange that it only happens for me for about three or four chapters (from when matilda gets the money out of the floor till oldman catches her in the bathroom at the DEA building)

You can see from the Lobby Shootout that the gray walls in the better boxset version now have a greenish tint. The boxset edition looks boatloads better, sure, but it definitely added a green and blue tint that was not present in the original theatrical presentation or DVD. The original DVD was representative of the theatrical presentation, but it was low quality, early transfer and it shows.

Actually the green tint was first added to the original DVD by the brothers, it was not present on the theatrical prints, and the Laserdisc was the only home media[ sorry VHS doesn't exist for me] that was "accurate" to theatrical prints.
Back then[1999] there were several threads were dealing with this issue, on many forums, with numerous side by side screen shots.

Actually the green tint was first added to the original DVD by the brothers, it was not present on the theatrical prints, and the Laserdisc was the only home media[ sorry VHS doesn't exist for me] that was "accurate" to theatrical prints.
Back then[1999] there were several threads were dealing with this issue, on many forums, with numerous side by side screen shots.
any idea what "version" TNT-HD airs? since they seemed to be obsessed with the matrix? (although i don't know if i'd actually call it HD ;) )

TNT strech "O" vision HD? I have no idea which version they would use, I refuse to watch that channel.

TNT strech "O" vision HD? I have no idea which version they would use, I refuse to watch that channel.
yeah, TNT has it's problems, but it's better than watching nothing, plus i have a law&order problem

plus i have a law&order problem

it's only a problem if you admit to it :)

I bought several Superbits, but only because BB had them clearance priced for less than the standard versions of the same movies. Above average picture, but not as good as some newer ones that were mastered in HD.

I bought several Superbits, but only because BB had them clearance priced for less than the standard versions of the same movies. Above average picture, but not as good as some newer ones that were mastered in HD.

same here...I grabbed as many as I could, if for nothing more than the DTS tracks...and at 9.00 it was a pretty good bargain.

I still can't decide between Black Hawk Down superbit vs extended edition. I have a feeling the extended edition has a better transfer (maybe no dts but thats not to important).

I'm a person that is very anti SB. Its the biggest marketing ploy ever in DVD's but;

They do have a couple of titles that are pretty darn good.

For example; BHD, I have both releases (if not 3 of them) and I like the Video and the audio (the DTS is stunning) on the SB version!

Thats what you by this movie for,,,,,, bullets come at you in every direction! :)

Don't even think twice get the SB version. (You do lose the extras though).

Jessica

P.S. How much you want to bet the Super Bit franchise will try to hawk SB HD DVD's in the not so distant future.

yeah, TNT has it's problems, but it's better than watching nothing, plus i have a law&order problem

;)

P.S. How much you want to bet the Super Bit franchise will try to hawk SB HD DVD's in the not so distant future.

I bet nothing, as Sony is Blu-Ray supporter[inventor] only.