I may be one of the few people who actually likes having PIP. Its actually gotten to the point its a dealbreaker. I was in love with the Sony XBR3 but then she wouldn't PIP out so I'm not taking the plunge.

I can workaround the lack of PIP integrated in the display if STB's would be able to implement PIP. I currently use the Comcast supplied dual tuner DVR which has remote functions for PIP, but as of now it has not been implemented.

I really love the XBR3, but I gotta have PIP PIP. Is PIP moving to the STB's or is it going away ?

That Sony is a Sammy panel with better chips. Consider getting the Sammy panel with even better chips, the Syntax 7xx series. It includes Silicon Optix Realta HQV, which does PIP.

i voted its going away, now with dvr's you can record 2 shows at once, your not going to miss anything.

Although I have been using PiP for years, PoP since Oct '03 with my GWIII, I voted that it will go away. I use it several times a day, everyday, but I have sufficient knowledge to have rigged up my gear to make it easy and useful for me. It's beyond the ability of most to duplicate what I have. Heck, most people have yet to learn to appreciate what a Tivo or other similar DVR devices can do for them.

I guess I'm in the minority, but I use PIP quite often. Sure you can't really watch two shows at once because of the audio, but it is great with sporting events. I can watch and listen to a show with the PIP tuned to a game and flip the audio or picture when something important happens. Plus, I use PIP maybe to monitor something that is upcoming on the news or another show. As someone else mentioned, the lack of PIP is a deal breaker for me as well...which is a problem since more and more it is becoming non-existent. The old Dell LCD W3201 had PIP. The new and "improved" W3207 does not. (Also went from 2 HDMI connections to 1...?) A while back all tube CRT based TVs had them, including the 16:9 HD versions from Panasonic and Sony. No longer. But I guess if the majority of people aren't using the feature, why add cost? A guy I know that deals with TV repair says people aren't even aware they have it or have no clue what it is for. PIP? What? If the PIP feature is available with the cable STB in the future (mine is not) then I guess that will work as long as I have PIP.

PIP is going the way of of "instant-on", VIR, Halo-Light, and any number of other past gimmicks used in tv set marketing. Unlike fake surround sound, BBE bass enhancement, etc, it's just too expensive to build in PIP capability that requires the ability to present two pictures from sources with different scanrates or to include two separate ATSC tuners in the sets.

My five year old Sony crt based rptv can do PIP from any two sources, regardless of the scanrate of the source. Probably one of the reasons the set cost over $3k. I never use it and experience no end of frustration trying to figure out how to turn it off if someone accidentally hits the PIP button on the remote.

Give me improved de-interlacing, more accurate grayscale, and other improvements to basic picture quality and leave the bells and whistles off.

That Sony is a Sammy panel with better chips. Consider getting the Sammy panel with even better chips, the Syntax 7xx series. It includes Silicon Optix Realta HQV, which does PIP.


Looking into it now. Thanks for the direction.

i voted its going away, now with dvr's you can record 2 shows at once, your not going to miss anything.

The only thing PIP gives me over the DVR is that my wife can watch her program with sound while I watch the game without sound. At least we're in the same room at the same time, otherwise its different rooms.

PIP is going the way of of "instant-on", VIR, Halo-Light, and any number of other past gimmicks used in tv set marketing. Unlike fake surround sound, BBE bass enhancement, etc, it's just too expensive to build in PIP capability that requires the ability to present two pictures from sources with different scanrates or to include two separate ATSC tuners in the sets.

My five year old Sony crt based rptv can do PIP from any two sources, regardless of the scanrate of the source. Probably one of the reasons the set cost over $3k. I never use it and experience no end of frustration trying to figure out how to turn it off if someone accidentally hits the PIP button on the remote.

Give me improved de-interlacing, more accurate grayscale, and other improvements to basic picture quality and leave the bells and whistles off.

Too bad its an "either or" proposition when it comes to PIP vs picture quality. I certaintly wouldn't want larger amounts of R&D time spent on PIP vs picture quality, but assuming it can already be easily implemented I'd hate to see it go the way of the other non core features you mentioned.

The only thing PIP gives me over the DVR is that my wife can watch her program with sound while I watch the game without sound. At least we're in the same room at the same time, otherwise its different rooms.

I can so relate to that. lol......

I voted that it will be in some sets and not in others. BTW, this poll should also be posted on the DLP/Rear Projection section as there are lots of folks there with new HDTV sets that have PIP options (some more advanced and some less advanced than others). Though the Sharp and Sony 1080p LCD's have left PIP out of their current line of HDTV's there are still a few sets that include it as token attractions: the Westy 42/47/37w series, the Sammy 4X95D/4X96/5296D/etc., Toshiba HL/LX/LZ series, the JVC LT-FN/FH96-97, etc. The unreleased Olevia 747i and 742i 1080p LCD's are also supposed to have PIP options but the set still hasn't shipped so that's a wild card.

Having PIP in a specific TV set doesn't necessarily mean it will be the type of PIP that is useful to all PIP lovers' needs. Take the Sammy LCD PIP options, for example: http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/200608/20060812103314890_BN68-01047F-00.pdf (highlight the page number on the bottom from '1' to '50' and press 'Enter' to go to the PIP section directly). The Sammy's PIP options not only severely limits what can be viewed in PIP (check that chart at the bottom of page 51 of the manual) but you have to go to a menu, then a sub-menu and the hit enter to highlight whether you want 50-50 split, screen position, etc. It's a mess, but this is the PIP format that is becoming mainstream now because the Sammy LCD's are making their way into so many homes. Compare that Sammy PIP format to the options of the current king of the 1080p LCD brands when it comes to PIP options: the Mitsubishi LT-37131, LT-37132, LT-46131 and LT-46231 (http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/img/287665, highlight '1' and replace it with '54-55'...WOW! :eek: :D ). You can even do PIP with a 1080p or PC signal (though limited compared to the other picture sizes)! But will Mitsubishi be rewarded by the PIP faithful for catering to them, or will the masses flock to the brands they know and either accept inferor PIP (i.e. Sammy, Toshiba, etc.) or no PIP at all (Sharp, Sony)? The answer my frieds is blowing in the winds (and on the results of this poll). :(

Well, most OEM-based LCDs seem to still use the PIP feature, like Protron, Westinghouse, Syntax Olevia, etc... There are also some national brands that use this, like Samsung, JVC, and Polaroid. So, will these brands resume the PIP feature, or will they start shying away from them? I, for one, would like to have that feature anyway, whether I use it often or not, just to have those extra bells and whistles'll make me feel like a better television shopper, and will give me a TV that will still be very much future proof.

Seems to me that my Westinghouse LTV-32w1 has PIP, a letterboxed side-by-side POP (not the full screen POP like Olevia or Sammy use, or even the newer Westinghouses), and the good PBP. Seems to me that would be great if most HDTVs would still use this. There was a rumor mill from a program I was watching that said by next year that PIP will be taken away, which gets me considering getting a second HDTV this holiday season. Not too sure what things'll be like in another couple of months.

I don't really care about PIP/SS, as it wasn't a selling point for me. The Syntax Olevia 537H has it, but it has some really annoying limitations. One example is only HDMI can be used as the other source when using the tuner as the primary. Curious as to why this limitation is there.

I want PIP - badly!!

I am looking for a 50" plasma or LCD and the sales guys says "nobody wants PIP".

Baloney.

From my readings it seems that Panasonic is the best plasma (except for Pioneer) and Sony, Samsung, and Sharp hold the high positions in LCD technology - yet I haven't found ANY of them that have the simple ability to display two pictures, if fed with two input lines (NOT from a STB, just from a cable), like my 32' Sony does with NO PROBLEM.

Does anyone know of a current solution?


BB62

I run PIP pretty much all the time except if I am watching movies. I have a Vizio GV42L that as been integrated into everything media related. The computer is hooked up to the RGB connection. The component inputs have the XBOX 360 and my Yamaha RXV1300 which has two dvd players hooked up to it. AV hookups are the sd dvr/sat box on one and the svhs out of the RXV1300 in the other. RF hookup is antenna for OTA HDTV. The HDMI 's are not being used just yet. The PIP can be three sizes and in 9 different locations on screen. Swap, input and size are at the push of a button and make it easy for this ADD world we live in to go back and forth depending on ones fancy. The PIP on med size is bigger then the dvd players you see in cars (which should not be allowed) and on large is almost a 17" ws small tv. So I like having PIP. IF I had a dedicated theatre room then maybe PIP not so important but the way I am running things now days I am pleased as punch that this feature is being included.

I want PIP - badly!!

I am looking for a 50" plasma or LCD and the sales guys says "nobody wants PIP".

Baloney.

From my readings it seems that Panasonic is the best plasma (except for Pioneer) and Sony, Samsung, and Sharp hold the high positions in LCD technology - yet I haven't found ANY of them that have the simple ability to display two pictures, if fed with two input lines (NOT from a STB, just from a cable), like my 32' Sony does with NO PROBLEM.

Does anyone know of a current solution?


BB62

Hmm. When I was doing my search Samsung did have PIP, IIRC for PIP to work with Samsung it had to have two sources. I think Mitsubishi also implemented PIP on some models. Actually I did not look at any models over 46" so maybe thats where they have the cutoff. But for smaller models Samsung and Mitsubishi LCDs did have PIP.

I run PIP pretty much all the time except if I am watching movies. I have a Vizio GV42L that as been integrated into everything media related. The computer is hooked up to the RGB connection. The component inputs have the XBOX 360 and my Yamaha RXV1300 which has two dvd players hooked up to it. AV hookups are the sd dvr/sat box on one and the svhs out of the RXV1300 in the other. RF hookup is antenna for OTA HDTV. The HDMI 's are not being used just yet. The PIP can be three sizes and in 9 different locations on screen. Swap, input and size are at the push of a button and make it easy for this ADD world we live in to go back and forth depending on ones fancy. The PIP on med size is bigger then the dvd players you see in cars (which should not be allowed) and on large is almost a 17" ws small tv. So I like having PIP. IF I had a dedicated theatre room then maybe PIP not so important but the way I am running things now days I am pleased as punch that this feature is being included.

Thats why I need PIP, not only for commercial avoidance when not using the DVR, but also to use it as a display for any device that needs it, while still being able to watch tv. Bring PIP back!

Yeah, I don't know why it is getting harder to find PIP. I just had to cancel an order I placed on a 42" LG 42LC2D fr $1150 shipped & installed becasue it has no PIP. My wife found out, and it was a deal breaker.

Is there any comprehensive & reliabel place to get list of which machnes have PIP? If I can't find anythign better, I'm goind to end up getting a Polaroid 37" machine primarily becasue it has PIP. I ouwl much rather buy another brand in that price range.

I should add that a useful use of PIP that no one has mentioned (and doesn't require a second tuner) is to watch tv same time as someone else is playing on a gaming console. We just got a Nintendo Wii, and it's nice to sometimes let the kids play while we watch tv.

I want PIP - badly!!

I am looking for a 50" plasma or LCD and the sales guys says "nobody wants PIP".

Baloney.

From my readings it seems that Panasonic is the best plasma (except for Pioneer) and Sony, Samsung, and Sharp hold the high positions in LCD technology - yet I haven't found ANY of them that have the simple ability to display two pictures, if fed with two input lines (NOT from a STB, just from a cable), like my 32' Sony does with NO PROBLEM.

Does anyone know of a current solution?


BB62
the vizio p50hdtv plasma will show two of any inputs on PIP, including HDMI on both.

I guess I'm in the minority, but I use PIP quite often. Sure you can't really watch two shows at once because of the audio, but it is great with sporting events. I can watch and listen to a show with the PIP tuned to a game and flip the audio or picture when something important happens. Plus, I use PIP maybe to monitor something that is upcoming on the news or another show. As someone else mentioned, the lack of PIP is a deal breaker for me as well...which is a problem since more and more it is becoming non-existent. The old Dell LCD W3201 had PIP. The new and "improved" W3207 does not. (Also went from 2 HDMI connections to 1...?) A while back all tube CRT based TVs had them, including the 16:9 HD versions from Panasonic and Sony. No longer. But I guess if the majority of people aren't using the feature, why add cost? A guy I know that deals with TV repair says people aren't even aware they have it or have no clue what it is for. PIP? What? If the PIP feature is available with the cable STB in the future (mine is not) then I guess that will work as long as I have PIP.

Ditto for me as well. I have a Sony 40XBR that has "Picture & Picture", rather than "Picture In Picture". The screen is split in half, and I can easily toggle back & forth for audio, and increase/decrease screen size w/a joy stick on the remote to any size. The "active" screen will have a green border around it so you know which one you're adjusting. I use this all the time for sports & news programs. This is NOT a gimmick feature, and once you have it & start using it you will not want a TV without it.

BTW, there is also a "PIP" feature on my SA8300 STB, but is has very poor PQ & function when compared to the Sony's feature.

Only time I ever used PiP was back when I still had a VCR connected. Looking at the latest PVR STB units and the new IPTV demoed by Microsoft, I suspect it will become a STB feature as that is where all the Tunning will happen. Does anyone really use PiP for anything other than watching two different brodcasts at once? What do you put in your other input? Do you try and watch a sports game while playing xbox?

I haven't tried gaming at the same time as watching tv, but I have used my PC while having a game on in a PIP window.

For those of us that would like to be able to watch two shows (or more) at once, is there any video processor or other intermediary device that could enable this for HD signals? On most Saturdays there's three or more football/soccer games on at the same time. I'm wearing out my remote switching between them!

(PS: For those who would say "tape one and watch it later" that's a non-starter--a) I have to know the results of the matches as quickly as possible and b) I can't watch 8 hours of football a day or my wife would file for divorce!)

(PS: For those who would say "tape one and watch it later" that's a non-starter--a) I have to know the results of the matches as quickly as possible and b) I can't watch 8 hours of football a day or my wife would file for divorce!)

For those that say "tape one and watch it later" can NOT be sports fans. I may watch a highlight reel after a game but I do not know one football fan that wants to watch an entire game that has long been over. It's like...well, it's like reading a week-old newspaper. It's OLD news. I want my split-screen Picture & Picture TV!:D

I'm wondering if there's any video editing equipment that can show two things at once on a split screen? The technology is definitely there.

People are trying to convince me to put up two more (smaller) flat panels next to my projector to achieve this, but that idea kind of stinks, imho.

Maybe we'll have to opt for the Reverend Jim Ignatowski solution and have a wall of TV sets.

PS - A "Taxi" (1978) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077089/) reference for you young'uns.

Ditto for me as well. I have a Sony 40XBR that has "Picture & Picture", rather than "Picture In Picture". The screen is split in half, and I can easily toggle back & forth for audio, and increase/decrease screen size w/a joy stick on the remote to any size. The "active" screen will have a green border around it so you know which one you're adjusting. I use this all the time for sports & news programs. This is NOT a gimmick feature, and once you have it & start using it you will not want a TV without it.

BTW, there is also a "PIP" feature on my SA8300 STB, but is has very poor PQ & function when compared to the Sony's feature.

I have the same TV and couldn't agree with you more. I'm trying to find an LCD with a similar feature and not having any luck. This is the MOST user friendly P&P that exists!!!

I have the same TV and couldn't agree with you more. I'm trying to find an LCD with a similar feature and not having any luck. This is the MOST user friendly P&P that exists!!!

Seems you're right on that score. It is very hard to find TV's that have the P&P feature, and I can't say why because you would think this would be an easy feat w/the digital displays. LG Electronics has a few larger screen displays w/P&P. Sony has not included the feature in their TV's either, and this was one of the things that made the XBR's special. Maybe we'll see more TV's, especially Sony XBR's & Pioneer Elites, include P&P on their larger 60+" flagship models for 2008. My next HT upgrade will be in the 60+" screen size.

BTW, how's your 40XBR? Mine is playing 100% good-as-new.

IMO PIP functions will be displaced by the addition of a 19-23 inch second LCD to the side. You get twin audio if you want too. I agree the PIP implementation on the 2007 bravia Sonys is the best I have seen.

I'll second the vote for Sony's P&P. We've got a 46W3000 model and it's by far and away the best PiP/PoP implementation I've used.