Epson EMP-TW1000 1080p LCD HDMI1.3 [Text View] - Page 4

rolandlim

02-19-07, 10:03 PM

Does anybody know the Epson projector line very well? Both NA and foreign? I don't understand all the models. TW 600, TW 700, Cinema 500, Cinema 800. If anybody could clarify, that would be helpful. I see many people on the net with various Epson projectors upgrading to the TW1000 and it's confusing to understand what they are all each upgrading from compared to other projectors.

Epson in North America use different names for their home projector, especially the high end range of models. Here's a list of equivalents, N. America on the left and rest of the world on the right:-

PowerLite Pro Cinema 800<------------------->EMP TW-600
PowerLite Pro Cinema 810<------------------->EMP TW-700
PowerLite Pro Cinema 1080<----------------->EMP TW-1000

These are basically the same machines, except Epson may ship them in white or black for different markets in the World. Also, the North American models use different names in the color mode menus from the rest of the World. But physically, they are the same machines.

rolandlim

02-19-07, 10:14 PM

If you don't notice the iris, and it helps black levels even just a little bit, then it wouldn't be a bad idea to use it. If you use it, you benefit from it, and then if it did break, then you'd have to either get it fixed, or live without it which is what you would do anyways if you didn't use it. If you leave it off, you don't benefit from it. How often do iris mechanisms fail? Do you want to save it for a rainy day?

I wish Projector Central would have the Epson TW1000 on their calculator.

Projector Central does have the PowerLite Pro Cinema 1080 on their calculator. It's the same projector as the TW-1000

Btw, Epson US website also have a projection calculator program, whcih you can download.

rolandlim

02-19-07, 10:44 PM

As someone has posted already, www.cine4home.de has posted a preview of the TW-1000 and should publish a full tests in the coming "weeks". They have posted a list of "First recognizable advantages:" in the preview, 2 would be of particular interest to some members here:-
- very good black level. We were more than convinced of the performance
- clearly more picture depth and thus plasticity with the C2-Fine technology

jo-1

02-20-07, 01:43 AM

Interesting. I agree about the reviews. There is nothing better than a thorough, un-biased thrashing of equipment to find out the truth. There is one place that I almost won't even read the reviews of just because they are so non-sensical, but then there are others that are reasonable. You can tell right away if the reviewer is A) knowledgeable and B) honest, but you just have to take everything with a grain of salt. Even comments from owners of projectors which you think should be un-biased are often coloured with fondness for previously owned products. You never can tell for sure about every source of info, you also don't know precisely how each persons setup, projector placement, components, room dimensions, brightness levels and wall/ceiling/floor colours etc, and how it compares to yours. It's all about averaging out the impressions and reviews and finally seeing for yourself. I am looking forward to seeing a D6 lcd in person :)

I also look forward to what Cine4home can dish out in regards to the AE1000 vs HC5000 vs TW1000 and the JVC and Pearl. I just find that reviews of the C2Fine D6 projectors and their black level and contrast is inconsistent. Some say its quite an improvement over the D5 720p lcd pj's and others say it isn't a very significant improvement. While I am glad we are seeing improvement in non-dlp digital projectors these past few years, I find it's not going quite as fast as I'd like. I suppose in a couple of years we could be past the threshold and into an era where the average lcd projector is more than acceptable. I already love my TX200 but there are those movies with dark scenes that leave you wanting better contrast/blacks.

Point fully taken :)

Tests, reviews or user observations are always tricky to read. Fortunately >>audiovision<< publishes measured values - for me still the only valid "real world test".

So I will do a comparison table for that for the different pj's.

One remark for >>audiovision<< as an answer to a reader comment was very interesting tough:
As the differences between DLP and LCD become less visible other aspects like noise or lens flexibility become much more important

I think that's it in a nut shell. I've seen the HC5000 as well as the brand new JVC HD1 and my personal result is (for a very subjective point) almost no real advantage for the JVC compare to the HC 5000 except the deeper blacklevel.

For me it all comes down to the question how much "blacker" the TW1000 is compare to the HC5000. I think some here in the forum have a good track record in pj's - can anyone comment on this comparison?

reina

02-20-07, 03:53 AM

I have a problem displaying 1080p via VGA from the Xbox 360 to my TW1000.

The TW1000 display only the center part of the image, maybe as much as 20% of the total image width is cut off in the left and right part of the image

I can't find any menu settings that may help adjusting this. Output scaling is locked to "Normal" when using VGA input

Doesn't the TW1000 support 1080p via VGA?

Has anyone else tried this at all?

Please help!
- Bjornar

rolandlim

02-20-07, 09:07 AM

vikashc

02-20-07, 09:17 AM

reina

02-20-07, 09:36 AM

Go into the menu and move doen to the "Signal" section, find the "Position" submenu. Select that and you should be able to move the whole picture back into the frame.

Thanks, but the problem is that the image is too big and just the center part is displayed, approx. 10% on each side is not displayed. I'm not sure what the technical term for this is (overscan??) and if/how it may be corrected.

Have anyone tried 1080p VGA input on TW1000?

- Bjornar

cpc

02-20-07, 10:46 AM

Did your Xbox 360 ever do anything like this with any other display? You need to find over/underscan settings.

rolandlim

02-20-07, 11:26 AM

Thanks, but the problem is that the image is too big and just the center part is displayed, approx. 10% on each side is not displayed. I'm not sure what the technical term for this is (overscan??) and if/how it may be corrected.

Have anyone tried 1080p VGA input on TW1000?

- Bjornar

I haven't tried using VGA cable with my XBox 360, but playing HD-DVD at 1080i via component looks great and perfect pixel to pixel mapping for 1080p panels of TW-1000. Maybe you can try that instead.

rolandlim

02-20-07, 11:29 AM

Hi Guys,
I am making up my mind to purchase a Projector in the immediate future, within a week or two. At present I am tossing between the HC5000 and the Epson1000. AFter going through this forum I found out that the Epson has a lot of problems with its Iris failing.... :-(
This has made me nervous towards buying it...The Mitsu simply doesnt seem to be a good option compared to the Epson... I am so confused now...
People who have recently bought the Epson 1000 or the 1080, could you please shed some light on the present/current status of the Iris problem? This is the only factor thats making me reconsider buying it, else all the rave reviews from this forum make me wanna buy it asap.... And yes, what about Dust BLobs? Does this machine accumulate a lot of Dust Blobs? I currently own a DLP Pj,which has not yet given me any problems with dust...been close to 3 yrs now since I bought it. SO I am a bit worried about this new thing which I didnt know existed..
Thanks a lot..for your help guys
Cheers
Vik

Although 2 of us in this forum had a machine with auto-iris problem, they were both replaced by Epson and had no problem subsequently. Nobody knows how widespread the iris problem is, but I doubt it's really very common, otherwise, there will be a lot more report of this problem. I don't think you should worry too much about it.

As for dust blobs, I think somone mentioned about this problem as a generic problem that's more liley to happen with LCD projectors, as most LCD projectors light path aren't sealed, unlike DLP projectors, so dust will more likely to get on to LCD panels than in DLP projectors.

vikashc

02-20-07, 12:08 PM

Although 2 of us in this forum had a machine with auto-iris problem, they were both replaced by Epson and had no problem subsequently. Nobody knows how widespread the iris problem is, but I doubt it's really very common, otherwise, there will be a lot more report of this problem. I don't think you should worry too much about it.

As for dust blobs, I think somone mentioned about this problem as a generic problem that's more liley to happen with LCD projectors, as most LCD projectors light path aren't sealed, unlike DLP projectors, so dust will more likely to get on to LCD panels than in DLP projectors.

Thank you very much Rolandlim for your very comprehensive answer. I think after reading your encouraging answer,I will go ahead with my intention to purchase the Tw1000.
Could you tell me about the performance of your machine at the moment? Are you satsified with it ? :-)
Thanks...
Regards,
Vik

cpc

02-20-07, 12:43 PM

If worried about the iris or anything else for that matter, just be sure to buy a projector with a useable warranty and use your projector a fair amount in the first 6 months. Usually, if something goes wrong, it's often in the first 6 to 12 months which should be covered by warranty at the very least, apart from bulbs of course.

As far as dust blobs go, just take a look at the filter assembly of the projector. With my Hitachi, it's obvious that the seal is very loose and dust can get in. I am taking steps to reduce the chance of future dust blobs. Any projector owner can do it. Just like I mentioned before. I posted a thread about it here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9827120#post9827120

rolandlim

02-20-07, 06:31 PM

Thank you very much Rolandlim for your very comprehensive answer. I think after reading your encouraging answer,I will go ahead with my intention to purchase the Tw1000.
Could you tell me about the performance of your machine at the moment? Are you satsified with it ? :-)
Thanks...
Regards,
Vik

I have the TW-1000 for just over a week and so far I am very satisfied with it. It is very good in all the important areas like picture sharpness, resolution, color, contrast and black level. I have no major problem or complaint so far.

SbWillie

02-20-07, 07:07 PM

I am officiallly out of the projector market..&$^@*!(()!&!!!

mbonikow

02-20-07, 08:11 PM

Can anyone give a suggestion as to who to go through in Japan or HK to get this pj. Anything I should know before ordering? Thanks for the help!

Mike

scottyb

02-20-07, 11:14 PM

I am officiallly out of the projector market..&$^@*!(()!&!!!

Why, did you buy this?

Scott

cpc

02-20-07, 11:37 PM

Quote:Originally Posted by SbWillie
I am officiallly out of the projector market..&$^@*!(()!&!!!

Why, did you buy this?

Scott

Yeah, I agree with scott. I'm not sure I get your vibe SbWillie. Did you buy a projector or give up on and decide not to buy? Are you angry or happy? Why? Do you think a warm cup of coco would cheer you up or are there other ways to sooth your soul?

kwokyan

02-21-07, 03:47 AM

Can anyone give a suggestion as to who to go through in Japan or HK to get this pj. Anything I should know before ordering? Thanks for the help!

Mike

Hi, Mike,

You may consider to try hivizone which is located in Hong Kong. As far as I know, Epson provides 2-year international warranty if you buy the TW1000 from Hong Kong but 1-year warranty (only valid in Japan) if you buy it from Japan. Also, the one from Hong Kong is in black whereas the one from Japan is in white.

jacksonian

02-21-07, 06:09 AM

I am officiallly out of the projector market..&$^@*!(()!&!!!
What happened? I didn't think you'd bought one yet. Did something come up and blow your pj budget?

cathor

02-21-07, 08:18 AM

I've put 12 hours on the projector so far and only used the out-of-box settings. I'll have the projector professionally calibrated after 100 hours.

I've watched 3 HDDVDs (Serenity, King Kong and Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang) and different HDTV content (Comcast).

Screen is a 92 inch 1.0 gain Grandview - I've seen one reviewer estimate the gain closer to 1.2/1.3

- Black levels are good, but not a significant change from a DarkChip2 to my eyes (DV10), but I suspect that calibration will only improve black levels and contrast.

- I've seen no green noise in dark scenes so far, but this could be related to source material. I've yet to test DVDs.

- HDTV looks fantastic on this projector - even my wife and father-in-law commented on it. Comcast quality seems to be the limiting factor here.

- Movies have a very film-like look. I think it's due to the lack of SDE, but not 100% sure.

- Can't tell much difference in resolution from a 720p projector, but this should not be a surprise to anyone.

-Lumen output is not an issue to me - this was my biggest concern with the tw1000.

- Fan at brightest setting is loud. The projector is about 3 feets above my head and it is very noticeable on quieter scenes in movies.

- You can hear the iris working if you pay attention, but it's not an issue during regular movie or tv viewing.

- I noticed the iris about 10 times while watching King Kong. It was very subtle and didn't bother me. I've not noticed it on any other movie and just once while watching tv.

So far I'm very, very pleased with the projector. I don't think there's a perfect projector out there and I don't want to spend the rest of my life chasing the last 5% performance gain.

cpc

02-21-07, 11:21 AM

cathor

02-21-07, 12:03 PM

Interesting feedback. Comparing the black levels of this projector favourabley to a DarkChip2 (DLP?) sounds like a promising comment. Which DarkChip2 projector are you comparing with? That is good feedback to pair with the former 720p lcd pj owners.

Optoma MovieTime DV10 - Art has a review with more detail about its black level performance

gooberon

02-21-07, 05:35 PM

Has anyone tried this projector with PAL signals? What is the de-interlacing like?

iwanrs

02-21-07, 08:32 PM

I have the TW-1000 for just over a week and so far I am very satisfied with it. It is very good in all the important areas like picture sharpness, resolution, color, contrast and black level. I have no major problem or complaint so far.

Hi Roland,

1. What size of screen do you have? Is the picture bright enough?

2. Do you think this Epson will be bright enough for my Carada BW 134" Gain 1.4 Screen in a total dark room?

3. I have Sanyo Z4 now, which is dim for my eyes, I am planning to upgrade to full 1080p Projector.
Is this Epson TW1000 the "Higest Lumens" among all the 1080p projectors available right now?

Thanks

rolandlim

02-21-07, 11:54 PM

Hi Roland,

1. What size of screen do you have? Is the picture bright enough?

2. Do you think this Epson will be bright enough for my Carada BW 134" Gain 1.4 Screen in a total dark room?

3. I have Sanyo Z4 now, which is dim for my eyes, I am planning to upgrade to full 1080p Projector.
Is this Epson TW1000 the "Higest Lumens" among all the 1080p projectors available right now?

Thanks

1. I am using a 100" Stewart Firehawk G2. I have commented about the brightness in my previous post. Yes, the picture is certainly bright enough

2. My guess is that it should be bright enough, but try to keep projection at the shorter end of the zoom range as lumens would decrease at the longer end of the zoom

3. I think the TW-1000 should be one of the brightest (if not the outright brightest) 1080p projector amongst those available at present (except the Digital Projection dVision 1080p Projector, which uses 2 bulb and is much more expensive at $29,955)

iwanrs

02-22-07, 12:32 AM

Many thanks Roland, gong xi fa cai.

dpc2

02-22-07, 02:43 AM

I noticed an anomaly during a long TW-1000 movie session last night, and am wondering if it's a panel convergence issue. I'd previously noticed that my DVD player's OSD appears out of focus down the right side. That looked odd, but I'd never noticed anything disturbing while watching other content. Last night I watched a DVD of an old B&W movie and it looked like the color temp on the right hand 1/3 of the picture was different from the rest of the picture. I tried two different DVD players and both HDMI and compnent connections, but it would not go away. When the rest of the picture looked like a natural B&W tone, the right side had a slightly green color cast. It reminded me of printing a B&W picture on an ink jet printer and getting a very slight shading of color.

Questions: Is this a panel convergence issue? Can it be addressed by DIY or professional calibration?

rolandlim

02-22-07, 02:49 AM

dpc2

02-22-07, 02:53 AM

Ugh...not sure I want to face carrying it back to Tokyo!

rolandlim

02-22-07, 02:57 AM

Ugh...not sure I want to face carrying it back to Tokyo!

Well, panel convergence is a hardware issue and cannot be fixed by tuning, DIY or professional. I guess you either have to live with it, ship it back to Japan or pay to have it serviced locally :(

Aceman

02-23-07, 08:00 AM

Guys -

Stupid question - what color is the unit from P....J....??? I read somewhere on the forum that its black, yet all pics are the pearl white (which i prefer)....

thx.

Aceman

FGEvans

02-23-07, 08:18 AM

can anyone tell me the box demensions. i am off to HK on the 6th March and want to know whether i could get the box in a suitcase.

reina

02-23-07, 08:40 AM

Guys -

Stupid question - what color is the unit from P....J....??? I read somewhere on the forum that its black, yet all pics are the pearl white (which i prefer)....

thx.

Aceman

The TW1000's in japan are white

- Bjornar

reina

02-23-07, 08:46 AM

can anyone tell me the box demensions. i am off to HK on the 6th March and want to know whether i could get the box in a suitcase.

That depends on the size of your suitcase. The box is not that large. If you have a suitcase like this one:Large suitcase (http://us.samsonite.com/webapp/us/servlet/SProductDisplay?productId=234191&storeId=10001&langId=-1&pc=C05) I think I could fit

- Bjornar

rolandlim

02-23-07, 09:06 AM

Guys -

Stupid question - what color is the unit from P....J....??? I read somewhere on the forum that its black, yet all pics are the pearl white (which i prefer)....

thx.

Aceman

TW-1000 in Japan are white. In Hong Kong, they are black

rolandlim

02-23-07, 09:10 AM

can anyone tell me the box demensions. i am off to HK on the 6th March and want to know whether i could get the box in a suitcase.

The dimension of the box is 19 1/4" x 17 1/2" x 11 1/2"

The first batch of TW-1000 which arrived in Hong Kong last week were sold out like hotcakes. the next batch is supposed to come in end of Feb. Good luck getting one while you're in Hong Kong :)

kwokyan

02-23-07, 11:15 AM

The dimension of the box is 19 1/4" x 17 1/2" x 11 1/2"

The first batch of TW-1000 which arrived in Hong Kong last week were sold out like hotcakes. the next batch is supposed to come in end of Feb. Good luck getting one while you're in Hong Kong :)

Or it is better if you ask the shop to reserve one for you before you leave for Hong Kong. :p

ay221

02-23-07, 12:51 PM

Does the Epson have the standard computer type power connector? I have a Sony Hs51 and I use a long computer cord for it.

FGEvans

02-23-07, 02:54 PM

may well ask to see if they can reserve one for me.

rolandlim

02-23-07, 03:28 PM

Does the Epson have the standard computer type power connector? I have a Sony Hs51 and I use a long computer cord for it.

Yes, it does, standard IEC power cord

FGEvans

02-24-07, 07:04 AM

jamieuk23

02-24-07, 10:23 AM

If I was to watch a standard 480p DVD on the TW1000 would it auto up scale the image to 1080p like a upscaling DVD player ??

Could do with noing this B4 I buy

rolandlim

02-24-07, 10:29 AM

If I was to watch a standard 480p DVD on the TW1000 would it auto up scale the image to 1080p like a upscaling DVD player ??

Could do with noing this B4 I buy

All digital display including projectors can only display video at it's native resolution. If you feed a signal that is with a resolution that is not 1080p, the internal scaler will scale it to 1080p. Whether the projector internal scaler is of good quality is another question althogether

iwanrs

02-24-07, 10:35 AM

Hi Rolandlim,

How you like your Epson until now?
Do you find out some thing new since then?
No complaint at all?

Congrats !

rolandlim

02-24-07, 11:34 AM

Hi Rolandlim,

How you like your Epson until now?
Do you find out some thing new since then?
No complaint at all?

Congrats !

Hi!

So far so good with the new TW-1000. Nothing really new to report so far. I am very pleased with it. I really like it, significant improvement in all important areas compared to my old TW600. Very good sharpness, resolution, color, contrast and black level. Projector brightness is very good too.

rolandlim

02-24-07, 11:41 AM

also would a universal mounting plate work on this projector.

I currently have a UK speced Toshiba 200MT (so this will be major upgrade) and would want to keep the original mounting plate.

It has the standard 3 screw design

On the bottom of the projector, there are 4 holes for screws. Not sure if your univeral mount can fit it. You can download the manual and check the position of the holes

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Epson-PowerLite_Pro_Cinema_1080.htm

cpc

02-24-07, 01:05 PM

bluesboyjr

02-24-07, 01:41 PM

I would like to rear shelf mount this unit, but I am having trouble finding where the air intake vent is located. Judging from the pics, I would guess that it is near the front/top to the side of the lens. Can anyone confirm this? Also, does the manual state how much clearance is needed from the back of the unit for shelf mounting? Thanks.

jamieuk23

02-24-07, 04:52 PM

basementjack2

02-24-07, 05:17 PM

Intake and air filter is on the bottom - exhaust vent is from the shark fins in the front next to the lens

cpc

02-24-07, 06:52 PM

Does anybody know if the Epson TW1000 is as tweakable for colour and gamma as for instance the Hitachi TX100/200/300 etc? And does it have the whole screen colour-uniformity adjustments too?

:)

rolandlim

02-24-07, 07:59 PM

If I recall correctly, the Sanyo Z4 and Z5 have TWO iris's, just like the Hitachi TX200 that I own. One iris you adjust yourself manually from 0-10 (or 1-10?) and then the auto iris. I find it really helps you to dial in the brightness/contrast etc to max your personal setup.

Does the Epson or any of the other 1080p lcd or lcos projectors have a TWO iris system like this?

As far as I know, that aren't any 1080p projectors at the moment with dual iris (1 auot-iris + 1 manual iris). They all either have auto-iris or manual iris, but not both.

rolandlim

02-24-07, 08:04 PM

Does anybody know if the Epson TW1000 is as tweakable for colour and gamma as for instance the Hitachi TX100/200/300 etc? And does it have the whole screen colour-uniformity adjustments too?

:)

Epson projectors have full color management system system and they are as tweakable for color and gamma as you like. You can either download the manual http://www.projectorcentral.com/Epson-PowerLite_Pro_Cinema_1080.htm , or read the review of TW-600 at www.cine4home.com. The TW-1000 uses basically the same CMS as the TW-600.

cathor

02-24-07, 08:40 PM

Problem Solved - I feel like an idiot. Although I was watching at night I just noticed that one of my black-out shades was not pulled all the way down and the very small amount of light that managed to get in caused the change on the screen. Oh well - live and learn

Help needed.

Something odd happened tonight. I was getting ready to watch a movie and noticed - when the picture faded to black - that there was a small rectangle in the lower left corner that was brighter than the rest of the screen.

iwanrs

02-24-07, 10:08 PM

rolandlim

02-24-07, 10:54 PM

Hi Roland,

You upgraded your Epson TA600 to this TW1000, can you tell me why you chose Epson over the other popular 1080P pj like Panasonic 1000, Mitsubishi 5000, Sony VW50 in the same price category. Have you compared all the pjs before you decided to stick to your Epson 1000.

As we commonly know Epson is more popular in media/business pj, not particulary popular in Home Theater Projector.

Please share with us some of your opinion and consideration.

THANKS

There are a few reasons why I chose the Epson TW-1000 rather than Mitsubishi 5000, Sony VW50, Panasonic PT-AE1000 or even DLP like the Optoma HD81, BenQ W10000 or even the Sharp 21000.

But, first, I want to dispell about this myth about Epson being more popular media/business pj than HT pj first. This maybe true in US, but it certainly isn't true in the rest of the world. This is probably due to the strange policy of Epson US in artificially inflating the prices of their home projector line. Ever wonder why so many people here are buying from japan and Hong Kong instead?

I have seen many of the projectors I have mentioned above. Let's get the DLP out of the way first. Although DLP projectors like the Sharp 2100 do perform better in terms of black level and contrast compared to the TW-1000, the difference really isn't great in a real life projection room that is not a "bat cave". I don't have black walls and ceiling, and the difference really isn't great. But perhaps the number one reason why I did not choose the Sharp 21000 (or the BenQ W10000) is because of installation problem. I am using a 100" 16:9 screen and with the Sharp and BenQ, they both have a rather long throw lens and they cannot fill my 100" screen at my maximal projection distance which is about 12.5 to 13 feet maximum.

As for the rest of the competition. Let's talk about the Sony (VW50) Pearl first. It dies throw a nice image in the right environment. However, the projected image looked a bit soft compared to the competition. It is also not a very bright projector for used in mixec environment. not really bright enough for used with ambient light. For HD gaming like Xbox 360, a bright projector is also better.

Let's talk about the Mit HC5000 next. This is a nice pj based on the same LCD panels as the Epson. The Epson is a bit brighter than the Mit and the contrast is also a bit better on the Epson. But the biggest problem I found with the Mit is that I can detect the DI. the DI algorithym is far too agressive and can be easily detected.

Lastly, the Panasonic PT-AE1000. Another pj based on the same D6 LCD panels. This pj is also very nice with convenient features like powered zoom and focus. These are nice feature to have, but not a major factor for consideration for me. how many times do you have to adjust zoom and focus once you have setup the pj anyway? I do feel that Epson have a slightly better black level and contrast. Despite what panasonic say, I think the Panny smoothscreen makes the image slightly soft compared to the Epson. It doesn't look very soft, but just slightly soft compared to others and I don't like it.

hansho

02-24-07, 11:59 PM

cpc

02-25-07, 12:41 AM

HiHoStevo

02-25-07, 01:40 AM

But, first, I want to dispell about this myth about Epson being more popular media/business pj than HT pj first. This maybe true in US, but it certainly isn't true in the rest of the world. This is probably due to the strange policy of Epson US in artificially inflating the prices of their home projector line. Ever wonder why so many people here are buying from japan and Hong Kong instead?

Roland I think you have it pretty much nailed as to why Epson has not made much market penetration here in the US with their HT projectors.........

Why Epson feel the folks here in the US should be willing to pay double what everyone else in the world pays is just plain bizarre!!!

rolandlim

02-25-07, 02:03 AM

Interesting. Good to know the Epson has lots of tweakability. I thought so. Do you have to go into a service menu in order to adjust colour uniformity over the screen?

I just finished watching Super Troopers with my Hitachi TX200. I have recently done some serious blacking out above and beside my screen. I am getting tired of grey blacks. I wonder if the TW1000 will give enough of an improvement to satisfy me. I am stretching my budget to go for the Epson, and the JVC is just not realistic for me now. DLP's are too risky in my eyes (pardon the pun). Even if I don't see rainbows and I get used to them, witch is not likely as they always give me headaches, I cannot imagine putting a guest through the pain of a bad dlp headache.

No, you do not need to go into the service manual for color management and gamma adjustment with Epson TW-1000. As I have said, go download the manual or read the review on TW-600 and you'll get a pretty good idea as how the color management sytem and gamma adjustment works in the Epson.

Nobody can tell you whether the TW-1000 will provide enough of an improvemnt with black level to satisfy you. All I can tell you is that, the TW-1000 black level and contrast is significantly better than the TW-600, which uses D5 LCD panels, same as your Hitachi TX200. Jacksonian has side by side comparison of the TW-700 (almost the same projector as the TW-600, but uses a new lens, same lens as the TW-1000) with TW-1000. he also reported that TW-1000 has significantly better contrast and black level even with the auto-iris off. He said that even his wife had no problem seeing the improvement with black level and contrast.

rolandlim

02-25-07, 02:07 AM

Roland I think you have it pretty much nailed as to why Epson has not made much market penetration here in the US with their HT projectors.........

Why Epson feel the folks here in the US should be willing to pay double what everyone else in the world pays is just plain bizarre!!!

Yeah, you can buy from Hong Kong with 2 years international warranty and have the pj serviced for free in US during the first 2 years if anything goes wrong and you'll still end up with saving enough money to buy a second projector or buy about 100 Blu-ray or HD-DVD.

JDLIVE

02-25-07, 10:14 AM

cpc

02-25-07, 10:17 AM

No, you do not need to go into the service manual for color management and gamma adjustment with Epson TW-1000. As I have said, go download the manual or read the review on TW-600 and you'll get a pretty good idea as how the color management sytem and gamma adjustment works in the Epson.

Nobody can tell you whether the TW-1000 will provide enough of an improvemnt with black level to satisfy you. All I can tell you is that, the TW-1000 black level and contrast is significantly better than the TW-600, which uses D5 LCD panels, same as your Hitachi TX200. Jacksonian has side by side comparison of the TW-700 (almost the same projector as the TW-600, but uses a new lens, same lens as the TW-1000) with TW-1000. he also reported that TW-1000 has significantly better contrast and black level even with the auto-iris off. He said that even his wife had no problem seeing the improvement with black level and contrast.

Ok, that's cool about the tweaking. I will check out the manual.

cathor

02-25-07, 11:47 AM

I just finished watching Super Troopers with my Hitachi TX200. I have recently done some serious blacking out above and beside my screen. I am getting tired of grey blacks. I wonder if the TW1000 will give enough of an improvement to satisfy me.

The more I use this projector the more impressed I am with the black levels. I have not done any tweaking yet so things can only improve.

Last night I watched the HDDVD version of "the departed". There were a number of scenes in the movie that just left me stunned in regards to how good the black levels are on this projector. One example is the black color of DeCaprios' cap in the "movie theater" scene.

If you want to spend the money you can find projectors with better blacks, but I'll be perfectly happy with the black levels of the tw-1000 for a long time.

CDP

02-25-07, 12:24 PM

How does the TW1000 compare against the Mits 5000 and panny AE1000 for PQ an overall performance. Also where can I download the TW1000 manual?

CDP

iwanrs

02-25-07, 12:24 PM

Thanks Roland for the simple, direct but important opinion why you prefer Epson for your HT.
That will certainly give me an important impact on which 1080P Pj will be mounted on my ceiling next.

iwanrs

02-25-07, 12:30 PM

How does the TW1000 compare against the Mits 5000 and panny AE1000 for PQ an overall performance. Also where can I download the TW1000 manual?

For manual: http://www.projectorcentral.com/pdf/projector_manual_3535.pdf

Note Epson PowerLite Pro Cinema 1080 is same as EMP-TW1000

cpc

02-25-07, 01:00 PM

I think the reason I'm beating the contrast and blacks issue to death is that I blacked out my ceiling and walls more around the projector recently and although it improves perceived contrast, it brings out the grey blacks a bit more. I hope somebody in Toronto gets one of these soon :)

cathor

02-25-07, 02:57 PM

cpc

02-25-07, 02:59 PM

I have black velvet on my front wall and on my frame and the black bars when viewing 2.35:1 content are certainly not as black as the black velvet - but that's a very high standard to meet. As stated earlier I'm perfectly happy with the blacks and contrast of this projector, but in the end I would recommend trying to see one in person. You could use the HC5000 as a proxy if that's easier to find.

I am hoping to view a Mitsubishi HC5000 this Thursday and I may even bring my TX200 to compare. I don't expect any of these projectors to have blacks as dark os the black masking in my setup, but I am hoping for better than my TX200.

stopdog

02-25-07, 04:41 PM

jamieuk23

02-25-07, 05:50 PM

any ideas on how this would compare the AE1000 ??. how long do you think untill we see some reviews of this projector from websites ?

rolandlim

02-25-07, 06:32 PM

any ideas on how this would compare the AE1000 ??. how long do you think untill we see some reviews of this projector from websites ?

I have written about comparison between the TW-1000 with the Panasonic PT-AE1000 in my previous post.

www.cine4home.de is reviewing the Epson TW-1000 now and will have the review posted some time later.

http://www.cine4home.de/news/EpsonTW1000/TW1000Announce.htm

iwanrs

02-25-07, 08:41 PM

Best Buy sells the Psyclone switcher which has four HDMI 1.3 inputs. I saw it next to the PS3 accessories.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7985745&st=switcher&type=product&id=1157067584966

Have you bought it? How it works? THANKS

stopdog

02-25-07, 08:58 PM

Have you bought it? How it works? THANKS

No I didn't buy it, just wanted to let you know there is one available. Don't have a PS3 or TW1000 but I am considering buying both and may need this also.

daggerNC

02-25-07, 10:46 PM

rolandlim

02-25-07, 11:17 PM

rolandlim - thanks for the concise reviews so far. I see you need a shorter throw - I'll be in a similar distance ratio - my screen is a 110" Firehawk and the ceiling mount is 14.2' back. My main seat is about 13.2' so with 8' ceiling the PJ will be about 4' from my head. Thus noise is a big concern of mine (current PJ is Sony HS20 which is a little too loud for me and I'm ready for better blacks and contrast with a brighter picture as well) - can you give some of your impressions of the noise level?

Thanks,
daggerNC

Noise level is very low with the lamp on low power. The projector is mounted right over my sitting area and I never hear it. Xbox 360 and PS 3 are much louder by comparison and these 2 boxes aren't even close to where I sit.

I almost never have to use high lamp power at the moment, even with ambient light, I only need to use low lamp. But I have tried it with high lamp power, and alhtough the fan noise is higher, most of the time, I still couldn't hear it. It would only be detectable during "quiet" part of movies.

CDP

02-26-07, 12:43 AM

For manual: http://www.projectorcentral.com/pdf...manual_3535.pdf
Note Epson PowerLite Pro Cinema 1080 is same as EMP-TW1000

Inwanrs, thanks for the heads up. What is the max screen size for a ceiling mount distance of 10 to 10.5 feet using zoom also.

CDP

CDP

02-26-07, 01:35 AM

Yeah, you can buy from Hong Kong with 2 years international warranty and have the pj serviced for free in US during the first 2 years if anything goes wrong and you'll still end up with saving enough money to buy a second projector or buy about 100 Blu-ray or HD-DVD.

Rolandlim, will the 2 year international warranty be honored anywhere in the US? Where do we send it, and who do we send it to?

CDP

iwanrs

02-26-07, 01:56 AM

Inwanrs, thanks for the heads up. What is the max screen size for a ceiling mount distance of 10 to 10.5 feet using zoom also. CDP

You may check Epson Projection Distance and Screen Size at:

http://www.epson.com.hk/files/spec_file/TW%201000_Catalogue_Cover1.pdf

kwokyan

02-26-07, 02:20 AM

Rolandlim, will the 2 year international warranty be honored anywhere in the US? Where do we send it, and who do we send it to?

CDP

Hi, CDP.

You should send it to Epson America. Visit their website (http://www.epson.com) for their contact point.

rolandlim

02-26-07, 02:50 AM

Rolandlim, will the 2 year international warranty be honored anywhere in the US? Where do we send it, and who do we send it to?

CDP

I have called the Epson dealer in Hong Kong and they told me that the international warranty would be honored by Epson US. So if anything goes wrong within the first 2 years, you can take it or ship it to Epson US and they will service it for free.

rolandlim

02-26-07, 03:06 AM

Hi all,

I have already gotten my TW-1000 for two weeks. So far I did not have much issues except for not enough input for me. As I have PS3(HDMI), HTPC(HDMI), Xbox, DVHS recorder and DVD, I need to have HDMI switcher, which is not ver 1.3 yet. As a result, I gave up the 12 bit colour depth of PS3.

Anyway, I would like to see if those who own TW1000 can post their settings here so that we can get some reference. I did not have any professional device to tune my TW1000, but just use my eye. Here is my settings. Thanks.

Screen: 92" Stewart Firehawk
For Movie:
Mode: Theatre Back 1
Brightness: 4
Contrast: -2
Colour Saturation 0
Tint: 0
Sharpness: Standard
Color Temp: 6500k
Skin Tone: 3
Brightness Control: Low
Auto Iris: On
Noise Reduction: Off
Output Scaling: 100%
Epson Super White: On

For Hi-Def:
Mode: Living Room
Brightness: 0
Contrast: 6
Colour Saturation 0
Tint: 0
Sharpness: Standard
Color Temp: 6500k
Skin Tone: 4
Brightness Control: High
Auto Iris: On
Noise Reduction: Off
Output Scaling: 100%
Epson Super White: On

I personally wouldn't turn on "Epson Super White". It is purely a gimmick which just simply lowers the white level. The white level should be adjusted by the Contrast (White level) setting. Here's a description of Epson Super White from the review of TW-600 in www.cine4home.com:-

We also classify the "Epson Super White" function in the Marketing Gag category. It should avoid blooming (clipping) of bright picture details and allow for more coloration. In practice it is clear that this function simply lowers the maximum white level. Because such corrections should always be made with the contrast and gamma functions, this feature should not be considered any further.

cathor

02-26-07, 07:42 AM

Thus noise is a big concern of mine (current PJ is Sony HS20 which is a little too loud for me and I'm ready for better blacks and contrast with a brighter picture as well) - can you give some of your impressions of the noise level?

Thanks,
daggerNC

I think this is a very difficult question to answer. What is low noise to one person may not be acceptable to another. Personally I find the projector almost silent at the low lamp setting, but loud at the high setting. I sit right below my projector which is rear shelf mounted at 6 feet. If you watch most of your movies at medium to high level the noise (high setting) will only be an issue during quieter scenes and it may not bother you at all. Also, I think the noise from the iris is a bigger issue than the noise from the fan. When watching with open headphones last night it was still easy to pick up the noise from the iris in quieter scenes. I find the iris noise harder to filter out as it is not constant and not as "soft" sounding as the fan noise. None of the issues described above would make me reconsider buying the tw1000 - I'm very happy with the projector, but if noise is an issue to you I strongly recommend that you demo one before buying. Finally, other than the HC5000 I'm not sure any of the other 1080p projectors are better in this regard, but I'm not speaking from personal experience.

jacksonian

02-26-07, 12:22 PM

jamieuk23

02-26-07, 12:30 PM

Has any one bought this from upgrading from a Optoma HD72 ?? I am just wonderig on how much diffrence there is ?

cpc

02-26-07, 01:57 PM

cathor is correct. If you are noise sensitive, don't buy ANY pj without listening to it yourself in person. What's loud is very subjective. I can't remember the member's name from NZ, but he thought the Epson was louder than his old Panasonic 500. I have had both in the same room and the Panasonic was MUCH louder.

I sit directly under my TW1000 about 5 feet in distance. I can't hear the fan in low lamp mode. It's virtually silent to me. I can definitely hear it in high lamp mode and don't like it for watching movies. But for watching a ball game with people talking and the lights on, high lamp is perfectly acceptable and you wouldn't notice it.

I said the fan was silent in low lamp mode, it's so quiet that the sound of the iris working is very noticeable in quiet scenes to me. If I'm watching a movie with a quiet scene and the light is changing, the iris noise bothers me.

It's hard to get a good feel for how much difference the iris makes. You can't really toggle it on and off in an effective way to see it. I tried pausing a black screen with it on and then was going to switch it off real fast to see the difference in black level. But the second that you pull up the menu, the iris starts to open because of the brightness of the gray in the menu. So you can't really do an on/off comparison. Just leaving the screen black and pulling up the iris on/off setting and toggling it back and forth, you can clearly see it working and helping some.

But I think for me, the black levels are so good with the D6 panels, and the iris noise is too loud, that my viewing experience is better with the iris off.

Although I was was suggesting you try leaving it on, after hearing what your experience has been, I totally appreciate your choice to leave the auto iris off. It's very interesting that you chose to leave it off. If you could reduce the audible noise of the iris, would you experiment with it on? It is actually a good sign that the projector is decent enough on it's own without the auto iris. If I get a TW1000, I will compare before deciding what to do with the auto iris.

With my TX200 the iris is not loud at all and turning it off does reduce the contrast of the dvd overall. It's much better with it on. With the Hitachi TX200 the auto iris was a single button away so comparing is very quick (although the words appear on the screen in a small area briefly, but not nearly as bad as the whole osd menu popping up. Actually I can't recall right now if the OSD affected the auto iris alot).

jacksonian

02-26-07, 02:19 PM

Although I was was suggesting you try leaving it on, after hearing what your experience has been, I totally appreciate your choice to leave the auto iris off. It's very interesting that you chose to leave it off. If you could reduce the audible noise of the iris, would you experiment with it on? It is actually a good sign that the projector is decent enough on it's own without the auto iris. If I get a TW1000, I will compare before deciding what to do with the auto iris.
Certainly if the iris was quieter, I would leave it on, as it does help a little.

I've been experimenting with it on vs. off a lot over the past couple of weeks as we've watched about 7-8 movies. The iris noise doesn't really bother my wife, but I tend to notice it more, as cathor said, because it's not constant.

I guess the bottom line is this: if I didn't know the iris was on or not (and sound wasn't an issue), there's no way in the world I'd be able to tell you if it was on or not by watching. What I mean is that the difference is very subtle, and for me anyway, more subtle than the noise from its operation. So for now I plan to leave it off, but I'll keep experimenting.

One thing to note with this problem. Generally dark/black scenes tend to be very quiet scenes in movies. So when the iris is most active, the soundtrack is the quietest, so it tends to accentuate the problem.

briandx

02-26-07, 02:24 PM

I agree with Jacksonian:

After much experimentation I have decided to leave the iris off (due to noise issues). Having said this, CR and BL are just fine for me in my semi-darkened room. Although I can hear the fan in quiet scenes under high lamp mode, it's WAY quietier than my old Sony CRT unit!

Actually, I'm considering building a hush box for the Epson. My goal will be to virtually eliminate any lamp noise and iris noise, but still leave plenty of room for ventilation in the back and sides.

Brian

daggerNC

02-26-07, 06:18 PM

Thanks all for the "noise" level comments. I fully understand these are subjective, but I get to filter the remarks from my experiences and from the collective experiences of those here on this thread (most of you with this new PJ are seasoned PJ owners). I would love to hear this Epson first, but don't know of any dealer who has them nearby. Iris noise is not exciting to hear - hopefully we'll get some testing numbers when the first good reviewers publish their findings.

CDP

02-26-07, 08:05 PM

It seems that at least two of the three, (Mits 5000 and Epson TW100),1080p projectors have DI or iris noise issues. I believe the issue with the Mits is the DI being noticable when in action and can be distracting while viewing. The TW1000 can be heard. Has anyone had any issue with the TW1000 DI being noticed when in action. Any news on the Panny with DI issues in this regard. I ask because these are the three projectors I am considering for my first 1080p projector.

CDP

cathor

02-26-07, 08:26 PM

It's hard to notice the iris on the tw1000. For some movies I don't notice it at all, with others; a few times - but it's still subtle. "Worst" I've seen is King Kong in HD - about 3-5 times per hour, but this is not the norm. To me this is a non-issue with the tw1000.

cpc

02-26-07, 09:26 PM

As far as the "auto iris action" of these projectors is concerned, from what I am reading it's:

Epson: Not very visible; a bit noisey
Mitsubishi: More visible; not as noisey as Epson

...but perhaps you need to drop into the Mitsubishi HC5000 thread for the real low-down on the audible noise of the Mitsubishi iris :)

jacksonian

02-26-07, 10:30 PM

Out of 40 hours of viewing, I've only been able to "see" the iris working twice, and if I had blinked I wouldn't have seen it. Incredibly well implemented visually. I just wish it was silent mechanically.

muneebk

02-27-07, 01:54 PM

Alright already! After 3 years of hemming and hawing (sp.) over getting a new P.J. you guys and your glowing feeback on this baby have convinced me that this is the one for me. I emailed the Hong Kong folks (HV) and they accept payment with wire transfer or for another $170 they'll take paypal. Have you guys who have done business with them gone the wire transfer route? I'm a little frightened with wire transferring to somebody I dont know, but $170 is a steep fee to go the paypal route.
On another note is the concensus that the Firehawk (92" in my case with total light control) a nice combo? I've always had unity gain matte white screens with my shelf mounted setup so this would be something new for me.

--thx

stopdog

02-27-07, 02:23 PM

Muneebk, just curious as to why you went with HV instead of PJ. Do you know what is the price difference. I think HV is black color and PJ is silver and the warranties are 2 yr and 1 yr respectively.

Dontan

02-27-07, 03:18 PM

I am building a home theatre which will have a 12' wide scope screen, a panamorph anamorphic lens and an external scaler. Does anyone know whether this projector would work in that environment. It will be a light controlled room. I am looking for a good 1080P projector that is bright enough to handle that size screen.

I was looking at the Optoma HD81 high brightness model that will be coming out in April but have started reading about some quality problems on the forum. I am also looking at the Sharp and the JVC.

Don

rezonat0r

02-27-07, 03:22 PM

I believe the HV unit carries a 2 yr international warranty, whereas with PJ you'd need to get it serviced in Japan, and you only have 1 yr. I think the Japanese ones are white, not silver, but I could be wrong. Plus, black is cooler - it's the new white! :D

muneebk

02-27-07, 03:35 PM

Stopdog,

The two reasons you mentioned are exactly why I decided to go with Hong Kong. I did prefer the black color and even though Epson has a great reputation for building a quality product this is a brand new design and having an extra year of local accessible support is a big plus.

jacksonian

02-27-07, 03:59 PM

For those looking to import, here's my advice since I was the first one to import one. If I had to do it again today, I'd import a Hong Kong model from Superfly77 or HV. I would prefer Superfly77 because I've already dealt with him (the TW700 I compared and sold) and he was incredibly reliable, responsive, and no offense, but American so the communication put me at ease. I bought from PJ and ended up having to ship mine back to Japan for a replacement, $280 round trip. So much of my savings over the others was wiped out. And dealing with PJ was only via email with somewhat broken English, a little unnerving waiting/hoping that someone replies to your email when you're sitting there with a non-functional $3000 piece of electronics. But in the end they were fine, it was just an unsettling feeling.

jamieuk23

02-27-07, 04:48 PM

muneebk

02-27-07, 05:05 PM

Thanks Jacksonian. I'll send Superfly77 a PM and see if its still an option.

rezonat0r

02-27-07, 06:15 PM

raylock

02-27-07, 06:40 PM

Sam (Superfly77) is great. I have a brand new TW1000 sitting here thanks to him; I just haven't had the time to set it up yet. Today is the beginning of my weekend so hopefully I can fire it up tonight!

I am also planning on purchasing one of these units once my HT room is finished. I have corresponded with both of the HK sources. I was surprised to find that there is a significant price difference between the two.

Ray

rolandlim

02-27-07, 06:45 PM

I just read the International warranty booklet that came with my TW-1000 and they have a list countries covered by the warranty. here's the list:-

Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungry, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Macedonia, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, United Kingdom, Yugsolavia

Canada, Costa Rica, Mexico, USA

Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Columbia, Peru, Venezuela

Australia, China, Hong Kong, japan, South Korea, Malaysia, Singapore, taiwan, Thailand

CDP

02-27-07, 07:15 PM

rolandlim

02-27-07, 07:21 PM

Rolandlim,
Where in the USA can one get the projector serviced. Location, City, State?

CDP

According to the booklet:-

"The warranty applies to the provision of after-sales service by EPSON in countries or regions listed in this book or by an authorized service organization stipulated by Epson."

I guess you should contact Epson American Inc. and ask them where to send the projector for repair if it goes wrong.

dinodog

02-27-07, 10:55 PM

G'day Everyone.
I've been following this thread for some time and now have something to add. I also want one of these units but for those members here in Australia, I've just been informed via email that this unit will be released to the Australian market NEXT WEEK. This information comes direct from Epson Australia. The Epson Sales support team were unable to give me a retail price at this time. In relation to any warranty for units bought overseas, Epson said that the 2 yr International warranty that came with the units from Hong Kong would be valid in Australia and any servicing during that period would be able to be done here. No mention of any warranty on the Japan models even though I asked the question about it. I'll post again when I see some prices.
cheers

rezonat0r

02-28-07, 12:37 AM

Well, even though I'm a bit under the weather, I sucked it up and got my TW1000 up tonight. I sit before a 92" 1.1 gain screen with Milkdrop (music visualization) running at "only" 1080i (from Xbox Media Center via component).

Wow.

I have lost count of the 'window' moments I've had. No offense to my ole' AX100, but it is like I was abducted by aliens and had my eyeballs polished and replaced with new ones. No smoothscreen, not even a hint of banding (and no trace of SDE, even 4-5 feet back from the screen). Even on standard DVD, the picture is noticeably cleaner.

First impressions -
- Excellent convergence, within 1 pixel all around (and I'm using nearly all vertical shift)
- Great color uniformity, better than the 2 Z4's and 2 AX100's I have seen out of the box.
- Lumens - while my screen is only 92", I am using maximum zoom, and almost maximum vertical shift. I find it every bit as bright and punchy as the panny (both on eco, and interestingly, there seems to be a bigger gain going to High mode on the Epson than the AX100)
- Noise - whew. I was worried about this, but it is about as quiet as the panny in eco.

More later... time to enjoy this thing! :)

dpc2

02-28-07, 10:18 PM

Rez -- I agree. I'm about three weeks ahead of you, but I have nothing but good things to say about this baby. I find that I tend to look for the things I don't like within the first month or two of a major new purchase, and I just can't find anything that falls short in any way. It's quiet, it's bright, it's sharp, it throws gorgeous colors, and it's every bit as flexible and easy to use as I'd hoped. There may be something better out there, but I'm perfectly content with this purchase.

iwanrs

03-01-07, 02:41 AM

First impressions -
- Excellent convergence, within 1 pixel all around (and I'm using nearly all vertical shift)
- Great color uniformity, better than the 2 Z4's and 2 AX100's I have seen out of the box.
- Lumens - while my screen is only 92", I am using maximum zoom, and almost maximum vertical shift. I find it every bit as bright and punchy as the panny (both on eco, and interestingly, there seems to be a bigger gain going to High mode on the Epson than the AX100)
- Noise - whew. I was worried about this, but it is about as quiet as the panny in eco.
More later... time to enjoy this thing! :)

Hi Rez,

Since you mention 2x Z4, let me ask you:

Is this Epson much BRIGHTER than Z4, in the same condition? If yes, by how many % more?

I have Z4 to upgrade.

Thanks

jasonDono

03-01-07, 06:49 AM

Has anybody measured the lumens on this puppy?

Thanks,
Jason

cathor

03-01-07, 07:13 AM

Has anybody measured the lumens on this puppy?

Thanks,
Jason

not that i've seen, but cine4home will post their review this month.

Cine4Home

03-01-07, 07:43 AM

not that i've seen, but cine4home will post their review this month.

With a bit of luck we will have a preview ready after this weekend...

:)

Regards,
Ekkehart

jasonDono

03-01-07, 07:48 AM

With a bit of luck we will have a preview ready after this weekend...

:)

Regards,
Ekkehart
Thanks Ekkehart! looking forward to it.

leckian

03-01-07, 09:31 AM

Right now with the USA version you receive:

3 year advanced replacement warranty-Immediate replacement projector will be sent to owner in the event service is needed for 3 years from date of purchase.

extra lamp packed in box

ceiling mount packed in box

$300 Cash Rebate if there is a screen on the same invoice

Although Epson dealers cannot advertise competitive pricing they may give you a great price if you call.

Lenny Eckian

Mark Lem

03-01-07, 10:09 AM

leckian

03-01-07, 10:19 AM

But isn't the US price way more than the imported price?

The list price is--but you may be able to negotiate a discount. :)

jacksonian

03-01-07, 12:20 PM

My understanding is that you cannot negotiate a discount on the projector. You can negotiate for an extra lamp, a discount on screen or other stuff, but if they sell you the PJ for less than MAP, they can lose their Epson dealership.

Importing isn't dubious. For the price difference, I can take the $2000 I saved on the pj, put that in an ING money market account, and by the time the projector breaks out of warranty, I can literally buy a brand new projector of equal value with newer technology.

With the US version, you're paying $2000 for a bulb, a ceiling mount, an extra year of warranty (over the HK version) and for it to get an overnight replacement.

If that's worth $2k to you, then get the US version. But it's not worth it to me. That warranty is like the highest margin insurance policy you could imagine.

JOHNnDENVER

03-01-07, 12:23 PM

What a great thread. I decided on a different projetcor. I still imported it though, I just placed the order.

Aceman

03-01-07, 12:27 PM

I believe what Leckian is stating is that you can negotiate, and get below MAP. "Dubious" may not have been a good choice of words but he's merely stating that if you find hte right reseller, you may be able to minimize the $ 2000 to the point where its a neglidgable difference between the imported price and a stateside price (inclusive of the lamp, mount, and warranty).

I agree, at MSRP, its unfair to expect the resellers here to compete, but i believe MAP is minimum advertised price, NOT minimum sell price. If they advertise that price they can loose their dealership IMO, not if they sell below it privately.

Just my 2 cents.

Aceman

jacksonian

03-01-07, 12:35 PM

but i believe MAP is minimum advertised price, NOT minimum sell price. If they advertise that price they can loose their dealership IMO, not if they sell below it privately.

You might be correct, but that's not my understanding of MAP. It's not just the "advertised" price. It's what they can sell it for. Lots of companies in different industries do this (furniture, luxury watches, etc...). The dealer can throw in screens, receivers, etc, but the price of the pj can't go below MAP.

I think Art from PR discusses this issue in one of his Epson reviews.

jacksonian

03-01-07, 12:36 PM

What a great thread. I decided on a different projetcor. I still imported it though, I just placed the order.
Come on, tell us what you ordered. :)

JOHNnDENVER

03-01-07, 12:42 PM

HC5000 from PJ

leckian

03-01-07, 12:44 PM

You might be correct, but that's not my understanding of MAP. It's not just the "advertised" price. It's what they can sell it for. Lots of companies in different industries do this (furniture, luxury watches, etc...). The dealer can throw in screens, receivers, etc, but the price of the pj can't go below MAP.

I think Art from PR discusses this issue in one of his Epson reviews.

MAP is a voluntarily agreement that a manufacturer and an authorized retailer can enter into. Retailers can usually sell MAP restricted items for any price they choose, but may not display in any print or online advertising, a price below the Minimum Advertised Price. These are voluntary agreements and cannot be enforced however the manufacturer has the right to determine who is an authorized reseller.

jacksonian

03-01-07, 01:08 PM

HC5000 from PJ
Congrats, let us know what you think of it when you get it? Did you have to order sight unseen or were you able to demo one somewhere?

JOHNnDENVER

03-01-07, 01:24 PM

Last night I got to demo it at a private individuls home theater.

Pretty cool. like me the guy uses a lot of laserdisc still and had a good collection of B&W classics. The processing really seemed to pay off, the svideo fed B&W NTSC was solid and the sharpest of the three projectors I got to see in person. The Panny, the Pearl, and now the Mitsu. The theater was a combo game room, pretty much lighting and bad reflective walls. He was throwing on 110" Flat Matt White screen, seemed real good, and brighter than I would have expected.

Price was actually $500 under my budget, which helped a lot with the choice as well. :)

PJ assured me I would have it easily by next weekend.

dinodog

03-01-07, 03:12 PM

For the Australia Members.
I got2 possible prices from Aust online retailers yesterday after telling them it was going to be here next week. They have said $6500 to $6999 AUD. Nice profit if you can get it. These retailers must be kidding..........
Anyway, I think the Hong Kong version would be the way to go. At $3500 AUD plus freight , that is the go.
cheers

rezonat0r

03-01-07, 07:49 PM

Is this Epson much BRIGHTER than Z4, in the same condition? If yes, by how many % more?

It's been at least 6 months since I've seen the Z4, but while they are in the same ballpark, the Epson is brighter. The image holds up better with ambient light, and in those 'broad daylight' scenes there is more punch. I would not go as far to say it is 'much' brighter, since spec-wise they are close, but Epson is conservative in their lumens rating, while most others manufacturers tend to exaggerate theirs. But if your Z4 is too dim with a fairly new bulb, I wouldn't bet that this unit would be a big step up in terms of pure lumens.

briandx

03-01-07, 08:14 PM

jacksonian

03-01-07, 08:22 PM

Well I'm dead in the water. It seems that after 4 weeks the HDMI input has stopped working on the Epson. At first I was hoping it was my switcher, but after directly hooking two different HDMI video sources to the Epson, one at a time it still shows no signal. :mad:

Now I have to ship it back to Japan at my expense. Unbelievable...
That's terrible. Did anything change in your setup as far as firmware updates or anything else that might be different?

I'm really sorry to hear that. Sounds like another reason for you guys contemplating an import to get the Hong Kong version from Superfly77 or HV.

iwanrs

03-01-07, 08:45 PM

It's been at least 6 months since I've seen the Z4, but while they are in the same ballpark, the Epson is brighter. The image holds up better with ambient light, and in those 'broad daylight' scenes there is more punch. I would not go as far to say it is 'much' brighter, since spec-wise they are close, but Epson is conservative in their lumens rating, while most others manufacturers tend to exaggerate theirs. But if your Z4 is too dim with a fairly new bulb, I wouldn't bet that this unit would be a big step up in terms of pure lumens.

Thanks, this is important input, because I have 134" screen to light it up.
I am considering Panny 1000, Mitsu 5000 and this Epson 1000, it seem Epson has the brightest Lumens of them all.

cathor

03-01-07, 09:32 PM

Well I'm dead in the water. It seems that after 4 weeks the HDMI input has stopped working on the Epson. At first I was hoping it was my switcher, but after directly hooking two different HDMI video sources to the Epson, one at a time it still shows no signal. :mad:

Now I have to ship it back to Japan at my expense. Unbelievable...

Sorry to hear that. I agree that the HK option is starting to sound better day for day.

Have you tried unplugging the unit from your outlet and resetting all settings? Does the projector work with the component input?

For what it's worth - given the issues with HDMI connectors - it may not be an Epson specific issue. Good luck.

mandarax

03-01-07, 09:41 PM

A dealer cannot advertise under MAP. or they breach the contract. A dealer can sell it for whatever they want to. In Canada the unit gets repackaged with the extra lens and the mount. There is also a seperate scaler that is a package and can be purchased with the projector at less cost than the projector and external scaler if purchased seperately. Not sure about the US policy or pricing on this. I know the warranty cards that come with the projector in North America includes shipping both ways in case there is a problem and Epson is great at resolving warranty or at least that has been my experience. They do have a zero fault policy in Canada.

When someone is selling into North America from off shore ... this isnt an Epson phenomenon or exceptional event to just Epson. It happens to any company where a product is leaking out of the supply chain and someone or company is almost always breaching their contract. It can happen to any company. The pacific rim is ripe with copying products and dumping them on the North American markets as well. Do you get mad at the dealers that are trying to make a living in North America for this?? I guess everyone has a right to do what they please. One has to look at what happens as a counter measure when this happens. Usually someone on staff finds out about the breach. If the activity persists a Company like Epson, Hitachi, Sony, it doesnt really matter will take drastic measures to cease the trading of products and put a plug on the breach. Consider the product is purchased by the manufacturer from the source importing it themselves. They then track the serial numbers and trace the movement of the unit till they find where and who is breaching the system and put a plug on it. When the importer gets plugged where will you be? Where are the parts going to come from?? Where are the replacement units going to come from?? Would you still expect the manufacturer to cover the warranty? Home theater projectors manufactured overseas have an import duty. Are these being paid?? Do you trust the importers to properly classify the goods. A business projector does not have the same commodity code as a home theater projector or duty classification. The excise departments in North America do check into these things and obviously if say Epson North America or any other manufacturer that supplies to their distribution channels they are not going to fiddle with taxes and duty. I guess its a risk reward thing. Who do you disparage?? Everything in China is cheaper. Lets take all the companies that manufacture their goods in China and fire all the employees that work for them in North America. Further lets sell all the buildings and other assets in North America and buy everything from China direct so we dont get ripped off. When we cant afford to feed the unemployed workers from the fallout we will get a big bus and cram these people into it and drive them over a cliff and let them swim back to China. Of course we wouldnt need as many lawyers, doctors, teachers, nurses to take care of all the people that just got driven into the ocean so we would get another second wave of trains to pick these people up and build a track into the ocean for these people. Life would be good and I could watch my cheap projector with subtitled chinese movies knowing that I havent been cheated.

People can do what they want to do ... just be wary about what is really going on and what the true risks are. They are real. To single out one company or a few that make projectors as being unique is patently ridiculous. If you think that there is no verbiage in the contracts prohibiting the importation of these goods to a North American market to Asian distributors you are in la la land.

iwanrs

03-01-07, 09:43 PM

rolandlim

03-01-07, 10:14 PM

cathor

03-01-07, 10:16 PM

Further lets sell all the buildings and other assets in North America and buy everything from China direct so we dont get ripped off. When we cant afford to feed the unemployed workers from the fallout we will get a big bus and cram these people into it and drive them over a cliff and let them swim back to China. Of course we wouldnt need as many lawyers, doctors, teachers, nurses to take care of all the people that just got driven into the ocean so we would get another second wave of trains to pick these people up and build a track into the ocean for these people. Life would be good and I could watch my cheap projector with subtitled chinese movies knowing that I havent been cheated.

Go hug someone - you need it...

rolandlim

03-01-07, 10:16 PM

Can this Epson TW1000 throw a 134" 16:9 image at 17.5' away from screen, ceiling mount?

If yes, Is that position at the middle or shorter/longer of the projection range using min and max zoom?

THANKS

You can find out the answer by downloading the manual and the projection calculator from Epson US website. The manaul has a table on projection range and distances.

Headset

03-01-07, 11:33 PM

SbWillie

03-01-07, 11:36 PM

so u have NOTHING in your home that's made in China....HMMMMMM??put the rocks down dude! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Headset

03-02-07, 12:11 AM

so u have NOTHING in your home that's made in China....HMMMMMM??put the rocks down dude! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

No I do not directly import merchandise directly from overseas in an effort to bypass my fellow Americans here at home. Even if stuff I buy is imported--I buy it through channels that allow people here to make a living as I do.

Headset

iwanrs

03-02-07, 12:27 AM

mandarax

03-02-07, 12:57 AM

Now, I am really confused. Epson is a Japanese company. Their projectors are either manufactured in Japan or in China.

If Epson was an American company and they manufacture all their projectors in US, then I can perhaps understand the reasoning that they are selling their projectors at a preminum compared to other projector makers who manufacture their projectors in China.

The reason why people single out Epson in particular is that, the other Japanese projector makers like Panasonic, Mitubishi, Sanyo and Sony just to name a few don't have the same pricing policy as Epson. If every other Japanese projector makers sell at the same premium price as Epson US, then nobody would really complain.

Not so I saw importers selling panasonic,, hitachi, mits along with epsons when I saw them being blasted on ebay a while ago. Yet they seemed to disappear. Epson doesnt employ people in North America to support the American market??
Anyone can screw up a companies distribution channel. If you took the copies of products made designed and engineered in North America that were labelled as originals where do you think they would come from?? Greenland??

kwokyan

03-02-07, 01:02 AM

Well I'm dead in the water. It seems that after 4 weeks the HDMI input has stopped working on the Epson. At first I was hoping it was my switcher, but after directly hooking two different HDMI video sources to the Epson, one at a time it still shows no signal. :mad:

Now I have to ship it back to Japan at my expense. Unbelievable...

Oh, sorry to hear that :( . However, did you check whether the HDMI cable works properly or use another cable before you send back the projector?

rolandlim

03-02-07, 01:10 AM

Not so I saw importers selling panasonic,, hitachi, mits along with epsons when I saw them being blasted on ebay a while ago. Yet they seemed to disappear. Epson doesnt employ people in North America to support the American market??
Anyone can screw up a companies distribution channel. If you took the copies of products made designed and engineered in North America that were labelled as originals where do you think they would come from?? Greenland??

The whole point about why people single out Epson US is because they sell projectors at a price that are much higher than the rest of the world and similar projectors from other Japanese makers.

You can argue all day about the moral of why people should support their local economy and don't buy from overseas. There is always of course truth in that argument. But Epson US still cannot explain why their pricing policy is different from other Japanese projector makers. Don't Panasonic, Mit and Sony employ people in US to sell their projectors too? Why aren't they using the same pricing scheme as Epson US? You think all their projectors come from Antartica?

iwanrs

03-02-07, 01:24 AM

You can find out the answer by downloading the manual and the projection calculator from Epson US website. The manaul has a table on projection range and distances.

Hello Roland, can you give me direct link? I can't find it . . . :D

Many Thanks

HiHoStevo

03-02-07, 01:39 AM

Now before everyone runs off the cliff into the sea lets just take a small step back....

1. This is a projector made in Asia and sold all over the world by a Japanese firm.

2. The cost of living in Japan is MUCH higher than it is in the USA (might also be in HK, but I am not familiar with their economy... but I can attest that Japan is WAY higher than the US).

3. Dealers sell this projector "retail" in Japan (Brick and Mortar stores not just internet), and they stay in business and make what they feel is a reasonable profit in an economy that is remember more expensive than the USA.

4. Then WHY can the projector not be sold at the same "reasonable" profit in the USA as it is in this economy that is much more expensive than ours???

Their are only two reasons I can think of off-hand.

1. Epson sells the projector to dealers in the North American market for much more than they sell it to dealers in other parts of the world.

2. Epson USA feels they have a "need" to make a higher level of profit than dealers other parts of the world, even those with housing/food/transportation costs that are double ours or higher.

Which of these answers is correct I have absolutely no information on..... however, it would be nice if we could actually find out the truth about this some day.

The point was made earlier, but seemed to have been overlooked in all the excitement.

None of the other electronics manufactures attempt to double the price they charge in the international market for their goods......, so why does Epson feel the need??

kelliot

03-02-07, 02:13 AM

The whole point about why people single out Epson US is because they sell projectors at a price that are much higher than the rest of the world and similar projectors from other Japanese makers.

You can argue all day about the moral of why people should support their local economy and don't buy from overseas. There is always of course truth in that argument. But Epson US still cannot explain why their pricing policy is different from other Japanese projector makers. Don't Panasonic, Mit and Sony employ people in US to sell their projectors too? Why aren't they using the same pricing scheme as Epson US? You think all their projectors come from Antartica?

Epson USA is screwing themselves with low volume. They could sell 10X if they matched overseas prices.

There might be an allocation issue, but it seems to cut across models.

mandarax

03-02-07, 02:21 AM

The very basic of Economic Principle:

Main target of any business is to make money (they call it PROFIT). to earn more money everybody try to lower the cost and higher the price (if they can).

Business people will squeeze their brain and heart out to do both.

At the end you will get (and try to find) the cheapest price available. Because everybody want to get more business, this is what we call (global) business competition.

That is a very logical and natural process and we can not stop or reverse it for any reason or cause.

Cheers :)

Heh if people try and take risks to save a few bucks thats their business and again I dont care what they do with their money. If someone wants to smuggle a product into a country why would I care. This isnt business tho. If I make a copy of a product and sell it as an original its not business. Again if I buy anything directly from China in China it surely is going to be cheaper. Do you really think that any commodity is the same price in China as in the Americas that is made in China. I am only using China as an example. There was a company here selling projectors on a site on-line that was importing them. Now they do not advertise and have gone completely underground. They will call you back like a pimp might do but you cant get them directly on the phone. This isnt business but you can save a few bucks. Where do most of the stolen goods end up? Check out a map of pirated cargo ships in the last five years. Where are they located and where do the stolen goods end up? How many complete cargo ships are pirated every year. It isnt in the Caribean. http://www.terradaily.com/Pillaging_Pirates.html 34 cargo ships in one strait in one year. I agree free trade is good when it is legal to do so. If I sell something into another area I am legally bound to get authorization to do so otherwise the sale will be considered a breach in the contract. Sorry but thats not business. You know the answer is quite simple. If it all above board and perfectly legal ask for their authorization from Epson to sell the product into this country. If it is a legal entity and they have nothing to hide it should be easy to produce a document stating they are authorized. If they are not authorized you are turning a blind eye to the fact that they will get cut off eventually. Better buy two in case one breaks. If some of these "businesses" breaches the contract with the manufacturer ... do you think they are going to care about you? What is going to be special about you?
They should have no problem giving documentation of the goods coming into the country with the proper commodity codes and proof of payment of duties and taxes. Good luck with that. If everything is above board and you save money and are comfortable and dont place a value on a warranty ... all the best to you its your money. I don't really see what the problem is ... You don't like the price... dont buy the projector. Buy it from one of the other honorable companies that put out specs like a Panasonic AX100 advertising 2000 lumens to the home theater consumer.

BTW Main target of a company is to increase net worth. Not profit. Basic Finance Principle 101 :))

Anyway I might be getting one of these in and comparing it to a JVC RS1.

I would have gotten an Epson from the importer in the region but he is laying low right now . So unfortunately it will be a North American unit. with the North American optics

iwanrs

03-02-07, 03:00 AM

BTW Main target of a company is to increase net worth. Not profit. Basic Finance Principle 101 :))

Anyway I might be getting one of these in and comparing it to a JVC RS1.

I would have gotten an Epson from the importer in the region but he is laying low right now . So unfortunately it will be a North American unit. with the North American optics

We are talking a slightly difference topic here.
Of course there are legitimate and non-legitimate business practices in every country in this planet.
We can not compare pirates with business people.
Your point is right but my statements are also not wrong.
It is like comparing the sale of product by Best Buy with the one stolen from neighborhood break in. Never the same topic/category.

Sale is only happening if supply meets demand, in this case price is important factor (if not the most). Customer ask for lower price, so supplier is forced to get the cheaper cost, etc. They go to China (or other countries) to find some. And again this is in frame of legitimate conducts.

Btw, before net worth there is Profit. No profit = No net worth no nothing (in business).

jacksonian

03-02-07, 06:19 AM

I hope you bargain hunters feel proud of yourselves.
Get off your horse. You're offending at least one person who does everything he can to support the US economy.

The complaint is that Epson projectors are made in the Far East, just like Panasonic, Sanyo, etc...but the US prices are significantly higher than Epson's Asian prices and significantly higher than the US Panasonic, Sanyo, etc...

So it's actually Epson that is hosing the US dealers. I would LOVE to buy from a US dealer if the price was remotely close. You think I enjoyed shipping my pj back to Japan for service? Really? Seriously, if the price was anywhere within 10-20% I'd buy it from a local US dealer. But the price was literally 60% higher for the US model.

jacksonian

03-02-07, 06:21 AM

So unfortunately it will be a North American unit. with the North American optics
So you're going to tell me that the North American version has different optics?

utility

03-02-07, 07:12 AM

The whole point about why people single out Epson US is because they sell projectors at a price that are much higher than the rest of the world and similar projectors from other Japanese makers.

You can argue all day about the moral of why people should support their local economy and don't buy from overseas. There is always of course truth in that argument. But Epson US still cannot explain why their pricing policy is different from other Japanese projector makers. Don't Panasonic, Mit and Sony employ people in US to sell their projectors too? Why aren't they using the same pricing scheme as Epson US? You think all their projectors come from Antartica?

the price is not higher than in "the rest of the world".
considering MSRP....europe is part of the rest of the world too and over here this projector will be even more expensive (at least in germany and austria)

but we europeans are already used to being ripped of on everything electronics. :p

EDIT: on the other hand we have this huge VAT rate, so the MSRP without VAT might actually be lower than in the US.
and i guess it would be unfair to blame EPSON for our high VAT :)

FGEvans

03-02-07, 07:31 AM

can anyone tell me what mounting plate i would need for this - i assume a universal one would not work.

Aceman

03-02-07, 07:37 AM

FG -

I use a universal mount on my TW700 so i'm assuming you should be ok, i'm fairly certain both projectors have the same chasis.

And thanks for bringing us back on topic!

Aceman

FGEvans

03-02-07, 07:47 AM

another question which may seem obvious.

am i right in thinking that the closer to the screen the projector is the brighter the image is going to be. ie more lumens.

cathor

03-02-07, 07:55 AM

This thread is about the tw-1000. While I enjoy discussing the economics of global trade and capital flows it has nothing to do with the merits of the tw-1000. Let's get back on track. Thanks.

cathor

03-02-07, 07:57 AM

Oh, sorry to hear that :( . However, did you check whether the HDMI cable works properly or use another cable before you send back the projector?

I forgot to mention this as well. I would strongly recommend checking the HDMI connection with another cable before sending it back. It sounds like you did control for the switch, but it was not clear if you checked the cable.

rolandlim

03-02-07, 07:58 AM

the price is not higher than in "the rest of the world".
considering MSRP....europe is part of the rest of the world too and over here this projector will be even more expensive (at least in germany and austria)

but we europeans are already used to being ripped of on everything electronics. :p

EDIT: on the other hand we have this huge VAT rate, so the MSRP without VAT might actually be lower than in the US.
and i guess it would be unfair to blame EPSON for our high VAT :)

Most things in Europe are more expensive than the rest of the World. However, do other projector makers sell comparable projectors in Europe at the same price level or are they pricing the projectors cheaper than Epson.

In Asia, Epson projectors are actually sold at comparable prices to their rival like Panasonic, Sanyo or Mitsubishi. In fact, Epson TW-1000 is the cheapest amongst the 1080p LCD projectors in Hong Kong and Japan.

rolandlim

03-02-07, 08:06 AM

This thread is about the tw-1000. While I enjoy discussing the economics of global trade and capital flows it has nothing to do with the merits of the tw-1000. Let's get back on track. Thanks.

OK. let's get back on track now. After using the TW-1000 for almost 3 weeks now, I am certainly most satisfied with it.

I watched Batman Returns HD-DVD last night. It is a very "dark" movie. But I was totally in awe. It was so much better than my old TW-600 (which I thought was already quite good when I watched the same movie on it previously). The color even in dark scenes were very well saturated and natural looking. The black level and contrast were excellent. Low level details were incredible. The night scenes of Gotham city had lots of depth and incredibly 3-D looking. Gotham city looked so good at night, it almost made me cry :D ! I don't think I can ask for much more. I am very happy with this projector and would be happy to live with it for a long time (well, at least until the next upgrade bug hits me :p )

Aceman

03-02-07, 08:56 AM

roland,

I know you've commented on the brightness before - i can't find it currently but how is the brightness compared to the TW600???

Aceman

rolandlim

03-02-07, 09:03 AM

roland,

I know you've commented on the brightness before - i can't find it currently but how is the brightness compared to the TW600???

Aceman

Compared to my TW-600 with 900 hours on the bulb, the brightness of the TW-1000 are comparable, just as bright in any mode. My guess is that if the TW-600 had a new bulb, it should be about 25% brighter though. It is difficult to say for sure.

iwanrs

03-02-07, 10:14 AM

Hello Roland, regarding Epson USA projection calculation, can you give me direct link? I can't find it . . . :D

What are you planning to watch tonight?

Many Thanks

emptychair

03-02-07, 10:50 AM

1. This is a projector made in China and sold all over the world by a Japanese firm.

FWIW, unless they have two different manufacturing plants, the TW1000 is made in Japan.

emptychair

03-02-07, 10:53 AM

I would have gotten an Epson from the importer in the region but he is laying low right now . So unfortunately it will be a North American unit. with the North American optics

Interesting, although I would lay money down that the NA units are identical and still made in Japan...

rolandlim

03-02-07, 01:04 PM

Hello Roland, regarding Epson USA projection calculation, can you give me direct link? I can't find it . . . :D

What are you planning to watch tonight?

Many Thanks

here's the link:-

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/Landing/ProjectorCalculatorNoFlash.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes

I just watched Blu-ray version of Kingdom of Heaven. Another beautiful HD movie to show off the TW-1000 :)

rolandlim

03-02-07, 01:06 PM

FWIW, unless they have two different manufacturing plants, the TW1000 is made in Japan.

As far as I know, all the TW-1000 sold in Japan and Hong Kong were made in Japan. Whether Epson will move manufacturing to China for TW-1000 is anyone's guess. My old TW-600 was made in China.

HiHoStevo

03-02-07, 02:11 PM

FWIW, unless they have two different manufacturing plants, the TW1000 is made in Japan.

Thanks I corrected the post...

HiHoStevo

03-02-07, 02:13 PM

Compared to my TW-600 with 900 hours on the bulb, the brightness of the TW-1000 are comparable, just as bright in any mode. My guess is that if the TW-600 had a new bulb, it should be about 25% brighter though. It is difficult to say for sure.

Roland, how does the SDE compare between the TW-600 and the TW-1000?

How close can you get to what size screen before it becomes visible?

cpc

03-02-07, 02:42 PM

here's the link:-

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/...UseBVCookie=yes

That's a neat projector calculator. Too bad the Powerlite 1080 or TW1000 is not listed.

Also, the Projector Central website projector calculator still doesn't have the Epson 1000 up yet. You know what is funny though, when you look up the older "* out of production" TW100, it has an MSRP listed of $4499...times sure have changed :)

From what I have heard though, the Epson 1000 has a wide range zoom and good lens shift, much like the TW700. Probably not identical though.

iwanrs

03-02-07, 03:07 PM

That's a neat projector calculator. Too bad the Powerlite 1080 or TW1000 is not listed.

Also, the Projector Central website projector calculator still doesn't have the Epson 1000 up yet. You know what is funny though, when you look up the older "* out of production" TW100, it has an MSRP listed of $4499...times sure have changed :)

From what I have heard though, the Epson 1000 has a wide range zoom and good lens shift, much like the TW700. Probably not identical though.

YES, where is the calculation for Tw1000??? :D

jacksonian

03-02-07, 03:15 PM

Is it not in the manual for the 1080 that someone linked the other day?

cpc

03-02-07, 03:20 PM

Yeah, I think the manual does have distance calculations, but the PC/web calculators are more fun :)

danmonroe

03-02-07, 03:24 PM

Projector Central website does have it. Select Projection Calculator Pro instead of Projection Calculator. It lists Powerlite Pro Cinema 1080.

cpc

03-02-07, 03:43 PM

Gotcha. They must have updated recently. I swear I looked there regularly and scrolled through that list slowly and didn't see that even earlier today. Oh well, it's there now :)

rezonat0r

03-02-07, 03:49 PM

I remember seeing something (I think in the TW700/Cinema 810 thread) about the U.S. models coming with a certificate of ISF calibration. Anyone know if that is the case with the Cinema 1080?

briandx

03-02-07, 05:10 PM

To the folks like Jacksonian and others who have made suggestions as to my HDMI problems; thanks for your support dude! :)

I'm out of town this weekend so I can't try any remedy until Sunday night.

I like the idea of unplugging the unit, starting over, maybe even doing a system reset; if that does not work I'll try going with the ol' analog solution of component video.:rolleyes:

I know I cannot get 1080p with analog, but given the problems I've had since December surrounding HDMI switching issues, perhaps I should try that? I have 10 months left on the warranty anyway...

I'll post my results on Monday, especially if one of the suggested remedies work.

Brian

rolandlim

03-02-07, 07:12 PM

Roland, how does the SDE compare between the TW-600 and the TW-1000?

How close can you get to what size screen before it becomes visible?

SDE is much less visible on the TW-1000. On the TW-600, I could see SDE from about 8 to 10 feet away on my 100" screen. With the TW-1000, I can get within 5 to 6 feet before SDE would be visible.

rolandlim

03-02-07, 07:15 PM

rolandlim

03-02-07, 07:16 PM

rolandlim

03-02-07, 08:59 PM

another question which may seem obvious.

am i right in thinking that the closer to the screen the projector is the brighter the image is going to be. ie more lumens.

Yes, brightness is related to projection distance. the closer it is, the brighter it should be. But it is also related to the zoom range of the lens. Practically all projectors have a zoom lens with variable aperture. The aperture is largest at the wide end and smallest at the long end of the zoom. So image would be brighter if you use the wide end of the zoom rather than the long end. So for maximal brightness, you would want to match the projection distance at the wide end of the zoom with your screen size.

cpc

03-02-07, 10:07 PM

Yes, brightness is related to projection distance. the closer it is, the brighter it should be. But it is also related to the zoom range of the lens. Practically all projectors have a zoom lens with variable aperture. The aperture is largest at the wide end and smallest at the long end of the zoom. So image would be brighter if you use the wide end of the zoom rather than the long end. So for maximal brightness, you would want to match the projection distance at the wide end of the zoom with your screen size.

I guess there are trade off's...

Any of you Epson owners going CIH? I plan to myself :) I hope to just drop the Epson TW1000 right in place of my Hitachi TX200 and use the Epson with a Prismasonic H1000 lens :cool: I have high hopes for this setup :)

briandx

03-02-07, 10:08 PM

rolandlim: I was referring to my understanding that both Blu-Ray and HD-DVd players will not support 1080p through the analog component output.

Perhaps I am mistaken about this.

rolandlim

03-02-07, 11:09 PM

rolandlim: I was referring to my understanding that both Blu-Ray and HD-DVd players will not support 1080p through the analog component output.

Perhaps I am mistaken about this.

Well, I don't think that is true. Xbox 360 with HD-DVD drive can definitely output 1080p via VGA while playing HD-DVD, although it will only do 1080i via component. I have not tried analog output with PS3.

rolandlim

03-02-07, 11:12 PM

I guess there are trade off's...

Any of you Epson owners going CIH? I plan to myself :) I hope to just drop the Epson TW1000 right in place of my Hitachi TX200 and use the Epson with a Prismasonic H1000 lens :cool: I have high hopes for this setup :)

Of course there are always trade-off in life. Although using the long end of the zoom and increasing projection distance will decrease the image brightness, what you will gain in return is better contrast and black level.

iwanrs

03-02-07, 11:31 PM

jacksonian

03-02-07, 11:48 PM

I like the idea of unplugging the unit, starting over, maybe even doing a system reset; if that does not work I'll try going with the ol' analog solution of component video.:rolleyes:

I know I cannot get 1080p with analog, but given the problems I've had since December surrounding HDMI switching issues, perhaps I should try that? I have 10 months left on the warranty anyway...

Definitely try the reset stuff, worth a try. If you have to go the component route, I don't think that would be so bad. I have serious doubts that anyone would be able to tell the difference between 1080i over component vs. 1080p over HDMI. And the switching definitely works much better with component.

rolandlim

03-03-07, 02:40 AM

Ceiling mount for Epson TW1000:

1. Can anyone confirm that my existing Z4 Ceiling mount will fit to this Epson TW1000 perfectly?
My ceiling mount is a three point screws type, with adjustable screw positions.

2. With my current setting of Z4 ceiling mount positioned at 14Ft (4.27meter) away from 134" screen, can I just dismount the Z4 and screw in the Epson, without any hassle?

Thanks

HiVi-HK delayed shipment of Epson not earlier than March/14.
Looks like same situation as RS1 promised and delay delivery?!? :eek:

TW-1000 has 4 holes at the bottom for mounting bracket connections. You can see a diagram of the bottom of the machine with the mounting holes position if you downlaod the manaul from the US website.

I think the TW-1000 is selling pretty well in Hong Kong, and Epson HK is not getting enough shipment from Japan. That's why the next lot won't be available until March 14th.

iwanrs

03-04-07, 10:57 AM

TW-1000 has 4 holes at the bottom for mounting bracket connections. You can see a diagram of the bottom of the machine with the mounting holes position if you downlaod the manaul from the US website.

I think the TW-1000 is selling pretty well in Hong Kong, and Epson HK is not getting enough shipment from Japan. That's why the next lot won't be available until March 14th.

Got it, thanks :)

ftlee

03-04-07, 01:50 PM

Does anyone know the lumens numbers yet in the different modes?

Thanks,

Frank

rolandlim

03-04-07, 06:54 PM

Does anyone know the lumens numbers yet in the different modes?

Thanks,

Frank

I guess we'll have to wait for the cine4home.de review for that info.

briandx

03-04-07, 07:15 PM

rolandlim

03-04-07, 07:20 PM

Update: It appears that my HDMI input is inoperable, despite attempts to reset it.

However, the analog inputs seem to work, so I'm going to re-configure the system for component video.

If nothing else goes wrong, I'll still try to return the unit for service before the 12 month warranty runs out.

Brian

Yeah, I think you should return it for repair. You shouldn't have to live without hdmi.

mandarax

03-04-07, 09:09 PM

For those who have it ... what is the panel alignment like. Any issues?? I am getting a demo unit in next week. The one at CES was great and was told that there was a big improvement.

jacksonian

03-04-07, 09:09 PM

I've noticed one issue with my TW1000. I see a pinkish discoloration on the middle to left third of the screen when I'm flipping channels with the TiVo S3 and it goes to a completely gray screen for a split second. Then I noticed it just a little on Flags of Our Fathers with bright sky scenes. I had it in Theater Black 1 mode. When I went to Living Room and removed the filter, it seemed to go away, so I think I have a slight discoloration in my filter. It's not bad and I may never have noticed it without the gray screen. But now it's a little hard not to look for it. I may have to tweak around and see if I can get the colors looking good on the Living Room mode so the filter's not in the mix.

cpc

03-04-07, 09:29 PM

jacksonian

03-04-07, 09:31 PM

What filter are you talking about?
The filter that slides into place internally when in the theater modes.

cathor

03-04-07, 11:17 PM

Update: It appears that my HDMI input is inoperable, despite attempts to reset it.

However, the analog inputs seem to work, so I'm going to re-configure the system for component video.

If nothing else goes wrong, I'll still try to return the unit for service before the 12 month warranty runs out.

Brian

Are you 100% sure it's not the cable? Also, have you tried unplugging the source from the outlet? Not sure it will help, but worth a try.

cpc

03-05-07, 10:29 AM

The filter that slides into place internally when in the theater modes.

Gotcha. That's what I thought. There's a whole world of tweaking available there for anybody who wants to customize a different filter. When you use that filter, are you restricted to whatever the "theater" mode settings are? Let us know if you are able to clean the filter or otherwise remedy your problem :)

muneebk

03-05-07, 01:23 PM

talkron

03-05-07, 01:33 PM

Hi, somebody here using the TW1000 with matte white screen? I consider buying one from Hivizone later in march (still waiting for confirmation, that the international warranty is valid in my country, the firm mentioned in the warranty, that should cover it in Czech Republic no longer exists,...i asked epson.cz, but they say, they must ask their german owners first, still waiting...). For me, the most needed upgrade from my Hitachi TX100 (old D4 panels) is the absence of SDE, better contrast, blacks and shadow detail (and absence of discolorations,..not happy to hear about the problems Jacksonian mentiond). In cinema i sit in the first 2-3 rows and, i want this emerging experience home too. I have 92´(not enough place for bigger screen) Da-lite perm wall and two surfaces: HCCV and Da-Mat. With TX100 i am using the gray screen, because with the white, the blacks were untolerable(light gray), but i can´t use this screen when i want to sit closer at the screen(love to sit 1x screen width distance), because from nearer as 1.5 x distance the sparkles on the HCCV surface get annoying ( i am pretty deceptive to picture artifacts of any kind...actually i always see clearly all the possible DLP or LCD artifactfs:.RBE,dithering,SDE,VB,shading...not easy for a pj to make my happy :-) ). Would the TW1000ones blacks be acceptable on a matte white surface?

olinda cat

03-05-07, 02:52 PM

I am curious about the processing on the epson tw-1000 ,no mention in this entire thread even though the question has been asked several times?The processors on all of the competition have gotten a lot of disscussion...owner's???

cvye

03-05-07, 03:25 PM

Based on the fact that Epson sells the PowerLite Pro Cinema 1080 HQV with the external processor, what's on the projector itself is probably minor. The review by cine4home on its predecessor the 700 found its 3-2 pulldown pretty weak to non-existent.

cathor

03-05-07, 03:33 PM

It's a Pixelworks processor. It not Realta or Gennum VXP performance, but I'm quite happy.

rolandlim

03-05-07, 07:46 PM

O.K. So I pulled the trigger and just put my order in with our friend superfly77. The obvious well repeated question is now what should I pair this thing with? I have complete light control with 12' of throw from a shelf mount and need a tab tensioned electric. I'd also like a decent viewing cone for when people come over, or if its a retroreflective material I wouldnt want the dropoff in output when I sit down. The projector is mounted at about 8 ft high. It sounds like people prefer the Firehawk G3 material. Any suggestions?

I am using a Firehawk G2. I think Firehawk G3 should be a good match. However, it will depend on the size of your screen. Firehawk is not designed for short throw and Stewart recommends a minimum throw distance of at least 1.6x screen width. Since your throw distance is only 12', I don't think you can go bigger than 92" screen or so. If you need short throw with big screen, the Firehawk SST maybe a better match. Perhaps you should ask for the opinion of Mark on the Stweart thread in the screen forum.

rolandlim

03-05-07, 07:58 PM

The Epson TW-1000 uses a Piexlworkd DNP processor. I have no problem with it. However, I think for most instances, the quality of the projector scaler/deinterlacer processor of the projector is a moot point.

If you play DVD, most good DVD players nowadays have good deinterlacer/scaler builtin, so you would need to use the projector's processor anyway.

For HD-DVD or Blu-ray, you definitely don't need to use any scaler to dsiplay on a 1080p projector. You would only need to use the projector's deinterlacer if you feed it with a 1080i signal. With 1080p signal, again, the projector's processor wouldn't need to be used.

I feed my TW-1000 with an Oppo 971 with 1080i via DVI for DVD. Xbox 360 with 1080i via VGA for HD-DVD and PS 3 with 1080p via HDMI for Blu-ray.

I have no complaint with PQ in all the playback modes above. :)

iwanrs

03-05-07, 08:51 PM

I feed my TW-1000 with an Oppo 971 with 1080i via DVI for DVD. Xbox 360 with 1080i via VGA for HD-DVD and PS 3 with 1080p via HDMI for Blu-ray.

I have no complaint with PQ in all the playback modes above. :)

Do you use a HDMI switcher?
If yes, which brand and model?

Or

Can anyone recommend a good HDMI switcher (4 inputs, 1 output)?

cpc

03-05-07, 09:09 PM

cathor

03-05-07, 09:37 PM

I use the 5-1 Monoprice switcher and have had no problems so far. XA2 on input 1 and PS3 on input 5.

iwanrs

03-05-07, 10:24 PM

I use the 5-1 Monoprice switcher and have had no problems so far. XA2 on input 1 and PS3 on input 5.

Cathor,

Can you tell me if this MonoPrice Switcher can handle 220 Volt power? Please look at the Adaptor's head label.

THANKS

stopdog

03-05-07, 10:46 PM

Do you use a HDMI switcher?
If yes, which brand and model?

Or

Can anyone recommend a good HDMI switcher (4 inputs, 1 output)?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7985745&st=switcher&type=product&id=1157067584966

Psyclone 4 HDMI (1.3 compatible) in, 1 output. Looks nice also.

cathor

03-05-07, 10:48 PM

100-240v - let me know if you need me to send a picture of the adapter (just pm me)

Craigslue

03-06-07, 02:28 AM

I use the Psyclone 1.3 hdmi switcher. Good switcher and have not had any problems with any hdmi issues. Only problem I have had is the cheap little remote that comes with it. Had to return my first switcher because 2 buttons quit working on the remote, and I had not taught the IR codes to a learning remote. New remote seems to work fine so far and I didn't delay teaching the IR codes to a learning remote. :D

iwanrs

03-06-07, 09:38 AM

100-240v - let me know if you need me to send a picture of the adapter (just pm me)

Thanks Cathor.

trefork

03-06-07, 04:07 PM

I wonder how people who complain about the USA price for this product would feel if their job was outsourced to China, India, Somalia or just given to a younger American who would work for less.. Sure it’s great to suck off the tit of the USA quality of life as long as I don’t have to support anyone else who is trying to make a living in my hometown. NO, I will buy my projector in such a way that I don’t have to support any of the amenities in life that I take for granted, or the benefits that put me in a position to even afford such a luxury. I am going to make as much as I can in the USA economy and put nothing back—and spend my dollars in a basic, stripped down marketplace. I hope you bargain hunters feel proud of yourselves.

I hate to burst your bubble, but your actions actually hurt the US economy rather than help. By paying a higher price than necessary you support inefficiencies in the market. The $2000 you spend on no added value, will now not be available for you to spend on other, more efficient, American businesses such as your local restaurant, grocery store, repair shop, factory, you name it. Your $2000 can only be spent once and by choosing an inefficient recipient, you are hurting the US economy by voluntarily lowering your own standard of living, and by neglecting other more efficient businesses. Congratulations.

dinodog

03-06-07, 05:56 PM

For the Australians among us.
This tw1000 is now available in Australia at the RRP of $6999 AUD. If you wish to have a better price then I suggest you order from Hong Kong at the current price of approx $3800 AUD including postage. I got an email from Hong Kong the other day stating this price. The model being displayed and sold in Australia is the black model imported from Hong Kong, I'm guessing. The Spec sheet being advertised on the web site that is selling this model is also the Hong Kong Spec sheet. They are also saying that any white or grey machine will not be covered by the Epson Australia warranty, which I'm guessing is because the white models are the Japan models. Any unit bought from Hong Kong will have it's warranty accepted by Epson Australia as indicated from an email I got from Epson Australia the other day. Good hunting to you all, but I know where my unit is coming from.
cheers
dinodog

Cine4Home

03-07-07, 08:19 AM

I guess we'll have to wait for the cine4home.de review for that info.

We have the first preview with first measurements online now on our german website.

Regards,
Ekkehart, Cine4Home

jasonDono

03-07-07, 09:33 AM

We have the first preview with first measurements online now on our german website.

Regards,
Ekkehart, Cine4Home
Thanks Ekkehart! Sounds like a nice machine from what I could understand of the Babelfish translation. How do you think it compares to the RS1, taking into consideration that it can be had for about 60% of the price?

Thanks,
Jason

iwanrs

03-07-07, 10:35 AM

We have the first preview with first measurements online now on our german website.

Regards,
Ekkehart, Cine4Home

Vielen Dank Ekkehart.
Das ist einer sehr gute test Bericht.

Waiting for the next full review! :rolleyes:

Joe_Black

03-07-07, 10:59 AM

Thanks Ekkehart,

I always really appreciate and enjoy reading your thorough testing and technical reviews.

With the TW700 you could only adjust RGBCMY or RGB gain/offset. One or the other, but not both. It's good to read that Epson made some improvements on the TW1000 that allow you to directly and accurately adjust the CIE colorspace for primary and secondary RGBCMY and still be able to adjust the RGB gain and offset separately to calibrate to 6500K. Your calibration results on the TW1000 look very impressive.

http://www.cine4home.de/Specials/EpsonEMPTW1000/Bild19.jpg

http://www.cine4home.de/Specials/EpsonEMPTW1000/Bild21.jpg

One question so far, given that the TW1000 has a very long range zoom 2.1:1 which will reduce the lumen output by half from one end of the zoom range to the other, what position was the lens at when you measured lumens in your tests?

Joe

cpc

03-07-07, 11:09 AM

Good question about the zoom and lumens/contrast. Looking at the zoom on the calculator, it does look really handy for getting a longer throw for use with an anamorphic lens :)

The preliminary measurements are interesting. Certainly without DI the contrast is pretty meager in the normal mode. In the D65 theatre black2 mode the 1150:1 contrast in both the high and low lamp modes without the DI shows a very high native contrast ratio for an LCD. Looks like the iris takes a long time to act, much longer than my Hitachi TX200. I see why it doesn't do much for quickly changing light levels in scenes, but perhaps for films with longer dark and light scenes it may be useful.

Lumens do look low. For myself, my screen is not going to be massive and my room will remain dark and light controlled. Looks promising.

IIRC, the Epson owners in this thread are using the theatre black modes?

What lamp settings are you folks using?

What throw length and zoom are you using?

:cool:

briandx

03-07-07, 12:01 PM

cpc

03-07-07, 12:36 PM

Now this is interesting.

Based on my estimates from their website data, when using Theater Black 1 Mode (my preferred mode) (Lamp High) with DI off I'm getting about 1,000 to 1 CR, and with DI on I'm getting 5,000 to 1.

The reason this is interesting is that I have done extensive real-world testing with the Epson compared to my Sony D50Q CRT projector as far black level and CR performance is concerned (with multiple participants including myself).

Basically if I would qualify overall picture quality as far as BL/CR is concerned with my Sony as a 10, the Epson with DI off is a 9, and with DI on is a 9.5.

Once again I'm convinced that CR/BL with today's projectors should be number 7 or 8 on my list as far as judging overall projector performance.

Interesting. I am pretty sure my Hitachi TX200 is setup reasonabley well and the brightness and contrast have been calibrated reasonabley well too, but my blacks can still tend to look gray. For me, because I want better blacks, I put blacks and contrast high on my list. For you and for other owners with the Epson 1080, Mitsubishi HC5000, Pearl, Panny 1000, JVC RS1u, comparing these and/or CRT projectors etc etc, the differences in black level and contrast isn't that high on your list because A) It's already very good and B) It's not as different from one to the other as it is from those projectors to the lesser one's. Plain and simple, it's great to hear that you folks are happy with the black level and contrast. I hope to join the ranks some day soon.

briandx

03-07-07, 12:59 PM

cpc

03-07-07, 01:31 PM

I would agree with everything you said CPC.

I would like to re-emphasize, however, that my comparisons are only significant because my "reference" for BL and CR is my CRT projector, which is still the king in those relevant areas compared to ANY digital PJ on the market today.

Brian

Point taken. That's why I am happy to hear you rate the Epson as close to the Sony CRT as you do. I cannot remember what your setup is like in terms of masking and blacking out walls etc, which you probably mentioned a few posts back or in a PM or something, but I suppose that varies between our setups too.

So does the Epson give you the urge to view more HD content vs SD sources like dvd's etc?

Diarmuid

03-07-07, 01:45 PM

Joe_Black

03-07-07, 02:59 PM

Interesting, could someone tell me the advantage of the C2fine panels though? They seem to have less native contrast than the older D5 panels. I suppose they are less likely to degrade, but that seems it really.

On what basis did you arrive at the conclusion that the new C2 Fine D6 panels have less native contrast than the older D5's ?

cpc

03-07-07, 03:30 PM

Interesting, could someone tell me the advantage of the C2fine panels though? They seem to have less native contrast than the older D5 panels. I suppose they are less likely to degrade, but that seems it really.

They don't have less. Comparing all @ D65, using one D5 projector as an example, from cine4home's testing, the Hitachi TX300 @ D65 without auto iris could muster:

850:1 @ 220 lumens;
620:1 @ 390 lumens;
400:1 @ 600 lumens

(there are more measurements but that shows a good range at different fixed iris settings).

Epson 1000's best @ D65:
1150:1 @ 350 lumens

I would definitely see the Epson 1000's measurement of 1150:1 @ 350 lumens vs 850:1 @ 220 lumens as an improvement. I think the Sony HS51(60) and Sanyo Z5 were also very good in their contrast measurements, but I think the Epson's D6 panels are still an improvement. Anybody?

Aceman

03-07-07, 06:29 PM

Can someone post the link on how to view the site w/ english translation?

thx

Aceman

Joe_Black

03-07-07, 06:56 PM

google site translation (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cine4home.de&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools)

google translation - TW1000 direct link (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cine4home.de%2FSpecials%2FEpson EMPTW1000%2FTW1000Preview.htm&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools)

Aceman

03-07-07, 07:08 PM

First off - thanks Joe for the link.

Is it me or are the brightness/contrast measurements not all that good?

Aceman

cpc

03-07-07, 07:12 PM

No, the measurements are not amazing. Certainly not very bright, but still higher contrast than other I think. The Mits measured quite a bit less native. Who knows. I mean, if the JVC RS1u measures 12000:1 and higher native with no iris and the Epson is 1150:1... you'd figure the JVC would be alot brighter and/or have much darker black levels. Oh well. Maybe I'll not worry about these specs and measurements so much for a while. Shootout of all these 1080p will be nice.

sethk

03-07-07, 07:50 PM

Interesting. You're feeding it 1080i and it's looking good? That's a good sign. From what I understood, I thought that de-interlacing 1080i wasn't the easiest thing to accomplish. I guess if there is no combing or jaggies etc, then you can't complain.

Actually the 1080i being fed from movie sources is inherently progressive and the de-interlacing is really just a 3:2 pulldown, and is fairly trivial in most cases other than bad edits.

De-interlacing real 1080i video such as fast sports or other natively 1080i sources not shot in a progressive mode is much harder. This is where you would see a big step up using a Gennum or Realta. It would also smooth out bad edits in movies that are ocassionally momentarily visible as artifacts on otherwise smooth 1080i movie playback.

Joe_Black

03-07-07, 08:01 PM

When you compare Cine4home's Mits 5000 tests and their TW1000 they both seem be extremely close.

At D65, iris off, no optical filter in light path.

Eco/low lamp mode

Mits 5000
Lumens 440
Native CR 720:1

Epson TW1000
Lumens 490
Native CR 700:1

Normal/high lamp mode

Mits 5000
Lumens 600
Native CR 720:1

Epson TW1000
Lumens 580
Native CR 700:1

In Dynamic/Brightest modes
Mits 1100 lumens
Epson 1254 lumens

rolandlim

03-07-07, 10:10 PM

After analysing the contrast measurment results in the best contrast mode (Theater Dark 2) from cine4home preview test, here's what I gathered:-

Minimum native on-off contrast ratio with DI wide open - 1150:1
On-off contrast ratio with DI closing after 6 to 8 seconds - 2300:1
Maximun on-off contrast ratio with DI fully closed - 5000:1

If you compare these results to DLP projectors reviewed by cine4home:-

Mit HC-3100 with 720p Darkchip 3 DLP, iris open - 2300:1
iris closed - 3000 :1

Projection Action Model3 with 1080p DLP panels, iris open - 1200:1
iris closed - 4500:1

Whether the Epson TW-1000 contrast ratio measurements are good or bad is of course up to your own interpretation.

In real life. I can say that thet TW-1000 contrast and black level are significantly better than last generation LCD projectors like the Epson TW-600. Compared to Darkchip 3 DLP that I have seen, certainly the DLPs may have a bit better contrast and black level, but the difference is certianly not as great. For dark scenes, in fact I don't see any difference, for scenes with mixed bright and dark areas, DLPs maybe about 20-30% better if you compare them directly. If you view them separately, it would be hard to say DLP are much better.

EyalR

03-08-07, 12:41 AM

As I understand from the translation the TW1000 has better black level than the HC5000, correct?
"The projector belongs here no longer to the brightest its kind, but strikes it in things picture fig. e.g. a HC5000 visibly. The latter is brighter, has however in the comparison visible weaknesses in the absolute Schwarzwert."

Schwarzwert=black level?

rolandlim

03-08-07, 12:45 AM

jo-1

03-08-07, 12:57 AM

Hi,

I understand that the TW1000 is one of the best 3LCDs around. After the measures in Cine4Home it is obvious for me, that the TW1000 plays in the top league of projectors today.

The human eye works logarithmic. In other words: 15000:1 translates in maybe 15 % more visible contrast when you compare it to the 5000:1 from the EPSON.

Before anybody starts bashing of this - please take into consideration, that the real difference is quite small. I've seen the JVC HD1 and the Mitsubishi HC5000 and the only thing that prevented me from buying the Mits was the black level. Up to Cine4Home the balcklevel is better + the contrast with the filter is more than acceptable and the price is excellent.

I'd guess for 90% of the viewers the EPSON is just a fine machine and will do what most people expect.

The review shows that the observations here are correct.

The only thing that disappoints me is the lumen output so far. I'll have to see if my 113 inch screen is bright enough with low lamp mode?

vbr <=> jo-1

cathor

03-08-07, 07:27 AM

Diarmuid

03-08-07, 07:28 AM

They don't have less. Comparing all @ D65, using one D5 projector as an example, from cine4home's testing, the Hitachi TX300 @ D65 without auto iris could muster:

850:1 @ 220 lumens;
620:1 @ 390 lumens;
400:1 @ 600 lumens

(there are more measurements but that shows a good range at different fixed iris settings).

Epson 1000's best @ D65:
1150:1 @ 350 lumens

I would definitely see the Epson 1000's measurement of 1150:1 @ 350 lumens vs 850:1 @ 220 lumens as an improvement. I think the Sony HS51(60) and Sanyo Z5 were also very good in their contrast measurements, but I think the Epson's D6 panels are still an improvement. Anybody?

Ah sorry! I take it back. Fuzzy memory syndrome. Somewhere in the recesses I had the impression that D5 panels could do better than that.

I'm still pretty underwhelmed by C2fine panels though. They're not the major improvement we were expecting. I mean the Sony HS60 can get 1250:1 at D65 with the iris off, and that's last years technology.

cathor

03-08-07, 10:51 AM

briandx

03-08-07, 10:55 AM

Let me quickly second cathor's observation!

cpc

03-08-07, 11:31 AM

Ah sorry! I take it back. Fuzzy memory syndrome. Somewhere in the recesses I had the impression that D5 panels could do better than that.

I'm still pretty underwhelmed by C2fine panels though. They're not the major improvement we were expecting. I mean the Sony HS60 can get 1250:1 at D65 with the iris off, and that's last years technology.

That's interesting. I missed that. I like cine4home's measurements. They are great for comparing though. It all depends on what we see in the end. I would love to see the Epson TW1000 and the JVC RS1u compared directly both through measurements and just from people viewing and comparing what they see. Throw in a Sony HS60, if it is in fact the highest of the previous generation lcd projector, and that would be interesting.

I think the bottom line for me is that contrast ratio and the black level are not totally coorelated 100%. A projector can have a higher contrast ratio than another projector but may still have a higher black level. Again, it's not that big of a deal if that happens because most scenes have a combination of brightness and that is where the contrast ratio determines the look and can help the black level.

I think if you are not happy with your projectors black level, it is probably best to calibrate it using a colour filter. I read the cine4home article and it makes sense. If your projector is not fully calibrated, it's lowest black level is not only higher than it could be (grayer than black) because of lcd tech, but it's also higher partly because the R G B colours are not the same at the lowest level, some colours are higher than the others and that is seen as light gray rather than black. Once you equalize the colours as best you can by calibrating with a filter, you drop the black level to your best acheiveable and yet your overall contrast ratio and white levels won't be negatively affected to any significant amount AND you are more likely to acheive D65. A nuetral density filter or gray screen alone can drop your black levels but may not help you acheive D65. I hope I am understanding this correctly:

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cine4home.de%2FTippsTricks%2FKo ntrasterhoehung_durch_Filter%2FKontrasterhoehung_durch_Filte r.htm&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools

I suspect that this is what the filters in the Epson Theatre modes do for you. I wonder if the Sony HS60 uses this? Why don't these projectors use a set of colour filters and factory settings which acheive this out of the box? Maybe it's so you can vary the modes, something Epson thinks is a selling feature. By allowing you to move the filter in and out of the light path you can make greater changes in the colour, brightness and contrast than just electronic adjustments. I wonder if anybody will take that colour filter and optimize it better for their particular Epson. It's possible Epson has already gotten it right and used the best filter possible, or perhaps the filter is more general and each individual unit could benefit from a specific custom filter. Not a tqeak for the faint of heart.

It's not easy to colour calibrate though. I suppose if you colour calibrate and then use a gray screen with any given projector, that is where you will acheive the absolute best black levels and maintain a good contrast ratio.