Epson EMP-TW1000 1080p LCD HDMI1.3 [Text View] - Page 6

jo-1

03-28-07, 10:46 AM

good news for all 1080P24 lovers out there.

Yesterday I took for the first time the opportunity to tease my TW1000 a little bit.

My intention was to figure out which resolutions the TW1000 can do wothout any problem.

1920x1080 @ 24 P
1920x1080 @ 36 P
1920x1080 @ 48 P and I
1920x1080 @ 50 P and I (of course)
1920x1080 @ 60 P and I (of course)
1920x1080 @ 72 P and I
1920x1080 @ 96 P and I

Surely some other resolutions would work as well but after testing those resolutions I was completely happy with the proof of assumption.

All neccessary home cinema resolutions work fine in progressive and interlaced.

No tweaking problems.

Test computer was my Apple Quad G5 (4 x 2,5 GHz incl. 256 MB Open GL graphics card) + SwithResX.

1080P24 source material worked just fine in 1080P24 and 1080P48 setting of the computer. No micro jitter or any other problem.

It's amazing how easy it is to use the TW1000

I will follow fnpr and watch from now on the TW1000 instead of posting here too much ;-)

Thanks to everybody for the great and sufficient help to get my wish list in order and to decide upon the probably best price value ratio 1080P projector out there.

No real drawbacks and no real things to complain about.

Just an amazing priced projector for 1080P. Surely the JVC beast has the edge in all aspects but @ home you seldom have both at the same time :D

Deinterlacing, color space, ease of use and brightness are just great.

My 113 " gain 1.3 silver screen is adequate filled with light in low lamp mode.

Noise is hardly to notice.

So it's time to wish you all a wonderful time with your home cinema!!

jo-1 :)

emptychair

03-28-07, 10:50 AM

Jo-1, great news! Thanks for your time and work, it is a beautiful projector indeed :)

iwanrs

03-28-07, 10:59 PM

I have this problem:

Hook up my HTPC via D15 (VGA) to Epson TW1000, the picture is flickering (pumping), not so much but quite annoying.
I tried difference resolution and Hz rate at HTPC, the result is the same, only more or less.

Anybody has similar problem?

Thanks

rolandlim

03-29-07, 05:50 AM

iwanrs

03-29-07, 06:13 AM

Does your HTPC video card have DVI output? If not, maybe it's time to upgrade to one with DVI or HDMI output.

Yes I have DVI out. can the problem be solved? But why D15 did not work properly?

emptychair

03-29-07, 06:17 AM

What model video card is it?

rolandlim

03-29-07, 06:25 AM

Yes I have DVI out. can the problem be solved? But why D15 did not work properly?

Well, DVI works great for me. In theory, you'll get better video quality with DVI anyway, because you'll keep the video signal in digital domain all the way from source to projector. if you use VGA, the video signal would need to be converted from digital to analog in the HTPC and then transmitted in analog form from vga output to projector and then reconverted from analog back to digital in the projector. 2 steps of unnecessary D/A and A/D conversion.

iwanrs

03-29-07, 06:28 AM

Ok, I'll try it Roland. Hope it works!

THANKS

cvye

03-29-07, 11:52 AM

rolandlim

03-29-07, 12:10 PM

My understanding, at least with HDMI, is that while it accepts 1080p/24 it will only display at 1080p/60.

From where did you get that information? I haven't heard about this at all for the TW-1000 :confused:

cvye

03-29-07, 12:16 PM

I spent a couple of hours on the phone getting through to someone in Epson customer support who actually knew what I was talking about. Their backline is available to Epson customers.

MASK1200GT

03-29-07, 12:55 PM

I noticed on the previous page that the US verision was released and the price was being discussed, on epson's website they list it at $4,999. Is this price correct or are they going to lower it to something more reasonable?
I will give Epson CS a call and ask them what does the extra $2,000 for the US version give that a one purchased from overseas doesn't (Besides the extra bulb and bracket).

talkron

03-29-07, 01:04 PM

MASK1200GT: TW1000 will be avliable in the US for 2999$ as Epson Home Cinema 1080 from april 9. (basicaly the white japanese model with one year warranty), i wisch we in Europe were so lucky...here it costs still 5000. I wonder if the new US price get somehow reflected from the asian online sellers, they evidently will not sell enything for today prices after the 4.9. ...

FremontRich

03-29-07, 01:10 PM

talkron

03-29-07, 01:20 PM

imho when the HK TW1000 with internation warranty were avaliable for same price as at *************** i take one in a second, but the HK prices blow my budget (must pay another 20% VAT , shipping inclusive :-() and the japan route is to risky, 2 guys at avforums.com say, thei experiencing color uniformity problems with their TW1000( something i despise deeply thanks my TX100, where i fight it for two years...), suprisinly i never heard here, that somebody foud shading on their Epson...

talkron

03-29-07, 01:22 PM

FremontRich: but it looks like it is the same pj only in white, with 1 yer warranty and without free bulb and ceiling mounth

MacFreibier

03-29-07, 01:36 PM

I spent a couple of hours on the phone getting through to someone in Epson customer support who actually knew what I was talking about. Their backline is available to Epson customers.
That's quite interesting. Does this mean that the TW1000 is doing a 3:2 pulldown even when the source is 24p? Will this result in a jerking playback?

MASK1200GT

03-29-07, 02:07 PM

Called Epson and they were no help at all. The CS person was practically rude.

MASK1200GT

03-29-07, 02:20 PM

Called Epson again and found out that they will release the Powerlite 1080 in April for $2,999. It is also listed on their website in the press releases. Appears to be the same as the pro 1080p projector.

FremontRich

03-29-07, 05:07 PM

FremontRich: but it looks like it is the same pj only in white, with 1 yer warranty and without free bulb and ceiling mounth

I don't think so. Epson's models numbers are different for here and overseas but the more expensive model has an external video processor:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/projectors/epson-powerlite-pro-cinema-810-hqv-projector-review

rolandlim

03-29-07, 07:28 PM

I don't think so. Epson's models numbers are different for here and overseas but the more expensive model has an external video processor:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/projectors/epson-powerlite-pro-cinema-810-hqv-projector-review

No, you are getting confused by Epson US. Their naming scheme for home projectors is different from the rest of the world.

Powerlite Pro Cinema 810 = EMP TW-700
Powerlite Pro Cinema 1080 = EMP TW-1000

However, Epson US offers an external processor option for these 2 projectors. You can buy either with the HQV external video processor. The standard versions of Powerlite Pro Cinema 810 for $2,799.99 and Powerlite Pro Cinema 1080 for $4,999.99 does not include the external HQV procssor.

And the new Home Cinema 1080 looks likely to be exactly the same projector as the Pro Cinema 1080, but comes in white instead of black and without the extra bulb, ceiling mount and a less extensive warranty.

cpc

03-29-07, 09:15 PM

What's the warranty? 1 or 2 years?

kwokyan

03-29-07, 10:38 PM

kwokyan

03-29-07, 10:41 PM

cpc

03-30-07, 12:17 AM

Hi,

In conclusion, the upcoming Epson Home Cinema 1080 and TW1000 are the same machine with the following differences:

Home Cinema 1080: white in color, 1-year warranty
TW1000: black in color, 2-year international warranty

As Pro Cinema 1080 is also the same machine with black color and costs US$2000 more for an extra bulb and ceiling mount, nobody will buy the Pro Cinema 1080, right?

I should be following this better, but .... are you telling me there are actually 3 different "models" of the same projector? I am aware of the international Epson TW1000 and there is a Powerlite Pro Cinema 1080 in Canada (and I thought this one was already in the US). Are we now saying that there are three different model versions of essentially the same projector? (keeping in mind the warranty, extra and ceiling mount differences...)

rolandlim

03-30-07, 12:32 AM

I should be following this better, but .... are you telling me there are actually 3 different "models" of the same projector? I am aware of the international Epson TW1000 and there is a Powerlite Pro Cinema 1080 in Canada (and I thought this one was already in the US). Are we now saying that there are three different model versions of essentially the same projector? (keeping in mind the warranty, extra and ceiling mount differences...)

I have mentioned this before:-

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10081115#post10081115

Powerlite Pro Cinema 1080 is only a marketing name used by Epson in North America. The mdoel is still TW-1000 as stated in the Powerlite Pro Cinema 1080 manual.

If the Home Cinema 1080 turns out to be the same projector as the Pro Cinema 1080 as most of us have speculated, then Home Cinema 1080 would be just another marketing name used by Epson US for the TW-1000.

cpc

03-30-07, 12:35 AM

I have mentioned this before:-

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10081115#post10081115

Powerlite Pro Cinema 1080 is only a marketing name used by Epson in North America. The mdoel is still TW-1000 as stated in the Powerlite Pro Cinema 1080 manual.

If the Home Cinema 1080 turns out to be the same projector as the Pro Cinema 1080 as most of us have speculated, then Home Cinema 1080 would be just another marketing name used by Epson US for the TW-1000.

Ok, so it's been marketed in the US already under the same name and they annouced it's re-release at $2999 MSRP?

rolandlim

03-30-07, 12:41 AM

Ok, so it's been marketed in the US already under the same name and they annouced it's re-release at $2999 MSRP?

Well, nobody knows for sure yet. Epson US haven't published the full details yet for the Home Cinema 1080, but from the preiliminary spec/data, it would seem like it is the same projector as the Pro Cinema 1080/TW-1000.

The earliest we would have a more definitive answer would be to wait for projectorcentral.com's review coming in the next few days. they have both the Home and Pro cinema 1080 in for review.

mm6840

03-30-07, 03:27 AM

jacksonian

03-30-07, 06:16 AM

Hi,

Did anybody else noticed a very noisy IRIS ? Specially when scenes fading/switching (Casino Royal) and sound goes down
(IRIS working very hard to adjust and make a lot of noise).

Beside that noise I'm a very satisfied with picture overall (blacks/colours) with Blue ray and SD dvd.

br,
mm
That's been mentioned here several times. Yes, we all hear it. The iris on the Epson seems to be pretty invisible, but slightly audible.

cpc

03-30-07, 08:46 AM

That's been mentioned here several times. Yes, we all hear it. The iris on the Epson seems to be pretty invisible, but slightly audible.

Has anybody compared the iris noise level to the TX200. I notice the Hitachi's iris noise sometimes, but it's quiet enough that it is never really distracting, and only a curiosity in very quiet scenes.

cpc

03-30-07, 11:21 AM

This is more positive words about the Epson's ability to adjust colours via cine4home:

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cine4home.de%2FTuning%2FEpsonEM PTW1000%2FTW1000Tuning.htm&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools

I wonder if Cine4home knows whether or not the Epson has accessable colour uniformity adjustments?

FremontRich

03-30-07, 12:37 PM

No, you are getting confused by Epson US. Their naming scheme for home projectors is different from the rest of the world.

Powerlite Pro Cinema 810 = EMP TW-700
Powerlite Pro Cinema 1080 = EMP TW-1000

However, Epson US offers an external processor option for these 2 projectors. You can buy either with the HQV external video processor. The standard versions of Powerlite Pro Cinema 810 for $2,799.99 and Powerlite Pro Cinema 1080 for $4,999.99 does not include the external HQV procssor.

And the new Home Cinema 1080 looks likely to be exactly the same projector as the Pro Cinema 1080, but comes in white instead of black and without the extra bulb, ceiling mount and a less extensive warranty.

I understand what you're saying but I'm not confused. Since I live in the US I have no interest in purchasing an Epson from a non-US supplier which means I have to base my decision on what's available here.

jacksonian

03-30-07, 12:49 PM

I understand what you're saying but I'm not confused. Since I live in the US I have no interest in purchasing an Epson from a non-US supplier which means I have to base my decision on what's available here.
You do appear to have been confused at the time. It looks like there are at least 3 "models" of the 1080 probably coming to market.

Home Cinema 1080 $3k
Pro Cinema 1080 $5k
Pro Cinema 1080 + HQV $?

rolandlim

03-30-07, 01:06 PM

I understand what you're saying but I'm not confused. Since I live in the US I have no interest in purchasing an Epson from a non-US supplier which means I have to base my decision on what's available here.

Well, you seemed confused when you said this:-

I don't think so. Epson's models numbers are different for here and overseas but the more expensive model has an external video processor:

What I have said was in fact just to tell you that Epson Pro Cinema projectors are more expensive than equivalent overseas models even without the HQV external processor. The Epson Powerlite Pro Cinema 1080 sells for $4,999.99 in US without the HQV proceesor, the HQV option would add about $3,000 extra to the price (about $8,000 total). The equivalent TW-1000 retails in Hong Kong for about US$2,800 and in Japan, it costs even less than that.

So obviously, the price difference between Epson Pro Cinema 1080 projector in US and the Epson TW-1000 overseas has nothing to do with the external HQV processor.

raylock

03-30-07, 01:14 PM

I understand what you're saying but I'm not confused. Since I live in the US I have no interest in purchasing an Epson from a non-US supplier which means I have to base my decision on what's available here.

That, of course, is personal choice. To me the TW-1000 from HK, being black and with a two year international warranty and less than $2,999 delivered still looks attractive.

Ray

rolandlim

03-30-07, 01:47 PM

The projectorcentral.com review of both the Home and Pro Cinema 1080 projectors is up. You can read it and decide for yourself if these are in fact the same projectors. The review had also details on difference between the warranty of these 2 projectors.

Pedro2

03-30-07, 03:15 PM

Interesting review, too bad there is absolutely no specific comparisons made to other projectors in its class--i.e. the Panasonic, etc. (the reviewers do note that it has slightly worse black levels compared to others). This is where Projectorreviews.com is far superior and more detailed than projectorreviews.com. Given how inflated reviews have become, this was not a particularly glowing review, though by no means negative. I was surprised by the low lumen output in cinema modes. Also, they treated the $2K difference between the home and pro versions with kid gloves--obviously, the price difference is extremely hard to justify, and they could have simply come out and said so.

cpc

03-30-07, 06:57 PM

(the reviewers do note that it has slightly worse black levels compared to others).

Yeah, that's weird. In my reading of reviews and posts here on AVS (including user reviews), I'd have to say the Epson is the same or better than the other 1080 lcd's for black levels. Did I miss something? Of course it's not as good as the Pearl or RS1, but that's to be expected.

rolandlim

03-30-07, 07:22 PM

Yeah, that's weird. In my reading of reviews and posts here on AVS (including user reviews), I'd have to say the Epson is the same or better than the other 1080 lcd's for black levels. Did I miss something? Of course it's not as good as the Pearl or RS1, but that's to be expected.

I wouldn't trust reviews from projectorcentral too much these days. Their reviews are too superficial, of rather mediocre standard when compared standards of other reviews. Their findings and conclusions are sometimes quite at odds with other reviews and rather controversial.

Their findings that the black level wasn't as good as other 1080p LCD projectors seemed opposite to what most people views. However, Evan did say the Pro Cinema 1080 has better black level than the Home Cinema 1080. But he failed to tell us whether the Pro Cinema's black level was comparable to other 1080p LCD projectors or not. He also failed to tell us or at least tried to extract some information from Epson US as to why the Pro Cinema was brighter and has better black level than the Home Cinema. Did Epson really do something to cripple the Home Cinema to make it not as good as the Pro Cinema or was it due to maunfactering variance or was the Home Theater a faulty unit? These are the questions that I would have liked if Evan had tried to find an answer for us.

cpc

03-30-07, 07:30 PM

I wouldn't trust reviews from projectorcentral too much these days. Their reviews are too superficial, of rather mediocre standard when compared standards of other reviews. Their findings and conclusions are sometimes quite at odds with other reviews and rather controversial.

Their findings that the black level wasn't as good as other 1080p LCD projectors seemed opposite to what most people views. However, Evan did say the Pro Cinema 1080 has better black level than the Home Cinema 1080. But he failed to tell us whether the Pro Cinema's black level was comparable to other 1080p LCD projectors or not. He also failed to tell us or at least tried to extract some information from Epson US as to why the Pro Cinema was brighter and has better black level than the Home Cinema. Did Epson really do something to cripple the Home Cinema to make it not as good as the Pro Cinema or was it due to maunfactering variance or was the Home Theater a faulty unit? These are the questions that I would have liked if Evan had tried to find an answer for us.

Agreed. I don't put much weight in their reviews. He did mention that the differences in lumens could be due to variance in the individual projectors and not the models, but that's as far as he went. He also goes on to mention contrast seemed better with the Pro too.

As far as performance goes, the spec sheets are basically identical, so we did not expect to see any differences in the picture characteristics. In reality, our Pro 1080 test unit was about 12% brighter in lumen output across the board than was our Home 1080 test unit. That could be due to manufacturing variances in these two units or in these particular lamps, and a test of two random units is not sufficient to draw any conclusions about the relative brightness of the two models as a whole.

Also, in side by side testing our Pro model achieved an incrementally deeper black level than did the Home unit. We are not prepared to speculate on why this was the case, but we simply report it for your information.

In all other respects—scaling, deinterlacing, color saturation, digital noise levels, etc.--the images from the two models appeared to be virtually identical.

And so did also still consider the Pro 1080 much worse than the other 1080p lcd's in black level? Or was it just the Home 1080 he was refering to? What would cause such a noticable and measureable difference?

Kinda leaves you hanging, doesn't it?

jacksonian

03-30-07, 08:40 PM

I have a hard time believing they aren't identical inside.

cpc

03-30-07, 08:49 PM

I have a hard time believing they aren't identical inside.

Me too. I guess I'm being a little sarcastic about his writing. I don't think there's necessarily much to the projectors and they probably are identical. Still, $2000 difference in price for a lamp, ceiling mount and related access to help makes you wonder.

rolandlim

03-30-07, 09:50 PM

I have a hard time believing they aren't identical inside.

I think so too, but the point is that, Evan, having had the chance and privilege to be the first reviewer to possess these 2 projectors at the same time for review, failed to give us any definitive answers as to whether they are in fact the same projectors internally or not.

cpc

03-30-07, 11:07 PM

I think so too, but the point is that, Evan, having had the chance and privilege to be the first reviewer to possess these 2 projectors at the same time for review, failed to give us any definitive answers as to whether they are in fact the same projectors internally or not.

Yeah, the least he could do is question Epson about the two units and their internals... he'd find out sooner than we would.

daggerNC

03-31-07, 12:07 AM

rolandlim

03-31-07, 12:37 AM

projectorreviews noted on their home page today/Friday the 30th that they have the Home Cinema 1080p in for a review. We should get a lot more detail from that review. We'll get a second set of light output at D65 and contrast measurements, plus the usual suspects. He usually gives some comparisons to other PJs as well.

Unfortunately, projectorreviews, like projectorcentral never did contrast measurements. Art only comment on contrast and black level visually. they do measure lumen output like projectorcentral though. In general, projectorreviews are more in depth than those from projectorcentral, but neither site reviews are very technically orientated.

Interesting how Art said the Home cinema 1080 is a price drop rather than a new model to complement the Pro Cienma 1080.

iwanrs

03-31-07, 02:35 AM

Does your HTPC video card have DVI output? If not, maybe it's time to upgrade to one with DVI or HDMI output.

Roland, I encountered a strange case:
I have tried to connect HTPC to Epson via DVI out of VGA card using a DVI to HDMI adapter and 10 meter HDMI-HDMI cable, the image show no singnal, although if I use the same output to my Samsung monitor, via DVI to DVI connection, there is no problme at all (meaning the DVI output of HTPC should be OK).

Is there any setting to be done in HTPC (or Epson) or any compactibility problem?

Thanks for any help. :confused:

rolandlim

03-31-07, 04:12 AM

Roland, I encountered a strange case:
I have tried to connect HTPC to Epson via DVI out of VGA card using a DVI to HDMI adapter and 10 meter HDMI-HDMI cable, the image show no singnal, although if I use the same output to my Samsung monitor, via DVI to DVI connection, there is no problme at all (meaning the DVI output of HTPC should be OK).

Is there any setting to be done in HTPC (or Epson) or any compactibility problem?

Thanks for any help. :confused:

Could there be something wrong with your DVI to HDMI adaptor or the HDMI cable? Normally, you wouldn't have to do anything with the computer, unless you have set it to a resolution or scanning frequency that is not supported by the projector.

iwanrs

03-31-07, 04:16 AM

Could there be something wrong with your DVI to HDMI adaptor or the HDMI cable? Normally, you wouldn't have to do anything with the computer, unless you have set it to a resolution or scanning frequency that is not supported by the projector.

My HDMI cable is OK for OPPO, Blu/ray and HD-DVD.
The other possibility is DVI to HDMI adapter, although mine is from RCA (brand), should be OK???

rolandlim

03-31-07, 04:20 AM

My HDMI cable is OK for OPPO, Blu/ray and HD-DVD.
The other possibility is DVI to HDMI adapter, although mine is from RCA (brand), should be OK???

It's not a matter of brand. if the connector is faulty, then it wouldn't matter what brand it is.

Of course make sure your computer is first set to a resolution and scanning frequency that will definitely be supported first. Somthing like 1024 x 768 at 60hz would be a safe starting point

iwanrs

03-31-07, 04:23 AM

Ok, I have to buy another adapter, I am really frustrated about this DVI to HDMI problem !

leckian

03-31-07, 11:24 AM

Me too. I guess I'm being a little sarcastic about his writing. I don't think there's necessarily much to the projectors and they probably are identical. Still, $2000 difference in price for a lamp, ceiling mount and related access to help makes you wonder.

Many people felt the Epson 800 and 550 were identical just for the simple reason they they looked the same-that is a pretty lax criteria for assuming the projectors are identical. In this case although the projectors looked similiar--they were not and though they had the same video processing chip the 800 had more features enabled than the 550.

Pedro2

03-31-07, 11:33 AM

projectorreviews noted on their home page today/Friday the 30th that they have the Home Cinema 1080p in for a review. We should get a lot more detail from that review. We'll get a second set of light output at D65 and contrast measurements, plus the usual suspects. He usually gives some comparisons to other PJs as well.

That is good news--much more thorough reviews, typically, than projectorcentral. Looking forward to it--perhaps he'll even make comparisons to the RS1. One big question I have is whether or not the advantages of the RS1 over the Epson would be noticeable if one has some ambient light problems (i.e. light colored walls).

briandx

03-31-07, 12:32 PM

Pedro2

03-31-07, 02:31 PM

Pedro: I can tell you that unless you have very controlled lighting conditions (which 90-99% of projector setups do not have), the main selling point of the RS1 will be mostly moot. I've owned front projectors for 10+ years so I know this to be a fact (at least in my own mind :rolleyes: )

Now that I've had the chance to own the Epson for several months (with my HDMI problems resolved :) ), I'm beginning to see why this projector is tops among the 1080p contenders for price/performance ratio.

Although the Epson is not tops in any major performance category (CR, brightness, sharpness, ergonomics), it is in fact near the top in ALL of the categories, at a street price below $3K.

The best praise I can give this projector is this: Now that all of the 2007 models have pretty much surfaced and are out in the real world, and having owned or seen 4 models (Epson, Panny, Mitsu, Pearl) I would still buy the projector I have. :D

Thanks for your comments. I wish I could also have some personal experience comparing these various projectors--including the RS1, to see how much you are right about ambient light killing its advantages. I noticed that in Art's review of the RS1 in projectorreviews.com, he noted that his testing room has light-colored walls, yet he was still overwhelmingly impressed by the RS1. At the same time, he did note that the RS1's advantages would be diminished by ambient light problems. Hmmm.

One thing that surprised me in the Projectorreviews.com review of the Epson is how low the lumens were on cinema mode--I had previously thought the Epson would lead the class in brightness for low/mid-priced 1080p projectors.

briandx

03-31-07, 03:21 PM

Pedro2

03-31-07, 03:28 PM

The pertinent question about the review is not was he impressed by the RS1, but was he impressed enough above and beyond the performance of the Epson.

See, the only real reason the RS1 has such a cult following is one number: 15,000.
If the CR of the RS1 was, say 5,000 native or 10,000 with a DI, it would be just another excellent 1080p projector, at a price point much above many other fine units.

So, if it turns out that under normal, real-world viewing conditions (as well as real-world human eyesight) 15,000 to 1 is only slightly better than 5,000 to 1, then the RS1 does not look like such a world-beater.

Unfortunately, I'm guessing that a lot of RS1 owners are starting to find that out. As a owner of a CRT projector with a CR around 20,000 to 1, as well as an Epson owner (CR around 5,000 to 1) , it's amazing how slight the difference between my two projectors are in terms of CR.

But don't take my word for it; I've done my "Which CR is better" demo for numerous other friends and family, and NOT ONE person can see much of a difference.

I agree the question is not whether the RS1 is better but rather how much better--and the answer is far from clear. I'm not sure there are that many RS1 owners out there at this point who are regretting not buying a less expensive Epson or Panasonic. There are other complaints (lack of adjustments, etc.) but few, if any, regrets or returns. The CR is definitely something people are impressed by, but more specifically they are impressed by the contrast ratio without a digital iris involved.

JaniH

03-31-07, 03:41 PM

Unfortunately, I'm guessing that a lot of RS1 owners are starting to find that out. As a owner of a CRT projector with a CR around 20,000 to 1, as well as an Epson owner (CR around 5,000 to 1) , it's amazing how slight the difference between my two projectors are in terms of CR.Have you actually measured the contrast ratio of your previous CRT projector or are you just taking the number from the brochure? If the latter, then you should compare to the brochure number of the Epson too. ;) But naturally that would be silly.

If a CRT is setup the way it doesn't lose shadow detail and signal chain doesn't have additional gamma correction applied, chances are it's on/off contrast ratio is much less than the advertised 15000+:1. Specially for an AC machine like the D50. I've seen a figure of something like ~9000:1 for a calibrated G90 without gamma correction.

Another factor is ANSI contrast, which is with LCD projectors few times better than in air coupled CRTs.

So the reason for the perceivable slight difference in the CR might actually be that there's only a slight difference in the CR.

cpc

03-31-07, 06:29 PM

Thanks for your comments. I wish I could also have some personal experience comparing these various projectors--including the RS1, to see how much you are right about ambient light killing its advantages. I noticed that in Art's review of the RS1 in projectorreviews.com, he noted that his testing room has light-colored walls, yet he was still overwhelmingly impressed by the RS1. At the same time, he did note that the RS1's advantages would be diminished by ambient light problems. Hmmm.

One thing that surprised me in the Projectorreviews.com review of the Epson is how low the lumens were on cinema mode--I had previously thought the Epson would lead the class in brightness for low/mid-priced 1080p projectors.

Well, I think I can say that it works like this for the most part:

If you have ambient light sources, even low levels, it washes out the screen and reduces contrast and messes up black levels.

If you have no ambient light levels, but your room isn't a bat cave in terms of the colours of the walls, then you just won't get quite the best contrast ratio from the picture.

Bottom line, I believe it is very important to eliminate light sources first, then work on making the room "darker" in terms of wall, ceiling and carpet colours. A light controlled room is the best place to start :)The pertinent question about the review is not was he impressed by the RS1, but was he impressed enough above and beyond the performance of the Epson.

See, the only real reason the RS1 has such a cult following is one number: 15,000.
If the CR of the RS1 was, say 5,000 native or 10,000 with a DI, it would be just another excellent 1080p projector, at a price point much above many other fine units.

So, if it turns out that under normal, real-world viewing conditions (as well as real-world human eyesight) 15,000 to 1 is only slightly better than 5,000 to 1, then the RS1 does not look like such a world-beater.

Unfortunately, I'm guessing that a lot of RS1 owners are starting to find that out. As a owner of a CRT projector with a CR around 20,000 to 1, as well as an Epson owner (CR around 5,000 to 1) , it's amazing how slight the difference between my two projectors are in terms of CR.

But don't take my word for it; I've done my "Which CR is better" demo for numerous other friends and family, and NOT ONE person can see much of a difference.

This may be true in terms of the difference in the contrast ratio's. Still, I think it may be true that the RS1 probably has a noticabley better (lower) black level than the Epson 1080. Maybe this is what makes the RS1 look better, maybe not. Anybody?

Pedro2

03-31-07, 06:38 PM

This may be true in terms of the difference in the contrast ratio's. Still, I think it may be true that the RS1 probably has a noticabley better (lower) black level than the Epson 1080. Maybe this is what makes the RS1 look better, maybe not. Anybody?

My understanding, from reading zillions of RS1 posts, is that part of what is so spectacular and innovative about the RS1 is that it is a native contrast ratio--i.e. does not require help of an iris. So, it is not just the impressive CR numbers but how this is achieved. Again, not entirely sure how much light colored walls/ceilings would diminish this. Other than the walls/ceiling, my light control is fairly good (annoyingly, my S97 DVD player display is part of the ambient light problem, but will eventually be replaced by an XA2, I hope).

rlindo

03-31-07, 06:57 PM

I haven't seen the Epson but I wouldn't be shocked if its full field black isn't much diff than the RS1 since the Di will drop the light output down while the RS1 is pretty bright. If the PC review is to be believed the Epson in its best mode has 50% the lumen output of the RS1 in normal mode.

They key with the RS1 IS its CR and how it affects low light scenes. There is NO haze on these types of scenes and when something of any real brightness is on the screen (ie stars) the image has awesome pop, depth, sweetness, etc. Speaking of stars, you should see how many show up in space scenes compared to say my former Z5.

I watched Casino Royale bluray a couple days ago on my RS1 and the night scenes looked just as good as all the other scenes. The lack of haze and sheer richness is amazing.

The Z5 had a CR with DI of what, 3k:1 in the cinema modes...there is a GIGANTIC difference between the Z5 and the RS1 specifically in low APL scenes. GIGANTIC.

I am sure the Epson is a great pj and just based on reputation (I had the Cinema 500 before my z5 and the cinema 500 was terrific) I'd guess it would be the best LCD but I am also sure there is a pretty large visible diff between it and the RS1 as there should be based on specs and price. For 3k though I highly doubt one can go wrong with the Epson and it'd be the LCD pj I'd get if I didnt deicde to fork out more for the RS1.

Pedro2

03-31-07, 07:04 PM

I haven't seen the Epson but I wouldn't be shocked if its full field black isn't much diff than the RS1 since the Di will drop the light output down while the RS1 is pretty bright.

They key with the RS1 IS its CR and how it affects low light scenes. There is NO haze on these types of scenes and when something of any real brightness is on the screen (ie stars) the image has awesome pop, depth, sweetness, etc. Speaking of stars, you should see how many show up in space scenes compared to say my former Z5.

I watched Casino Royale bluray a couple days ago on my RS1 and the night scenes looked just as good as all the other scenes. The lack of haze and sheer richness is amazing.

The Z5 had a CR with DI of what, 3k:1 in the cinema modes...there is a GIGANTIC difference between the Z5 and the RS1 specifically in low APL scenes. GIGANTIC.

Thanks. Would you say that the difference between the RS1 and the Z5 is GIGANTIC on most scenes? The reason I ask is that I currently have a Panny AX100, which is roughly comparable to the Z5. On the Epson, I would think the stars effect would be similar since it has the iris.

rlindo

03-31-07, 07:10 PM

Pedro2

03-31-07, 07:25 PM

Rlindo, thank you. Now, please tell me you are NOT using an external VP with the RS1 to get these picture quality results! (that is not an additional investment I am willing to make at this point). I notice that the Epson also sells with a mated external VP for a considerable amount of additional money--something which has not been discussed much on the Epson threads so far.

rlindo

03-31-07, 07:34 PM

Pedro2

03-31-07, 08:08 PM

Pedro,

hehe nope no external VP here. The only thing I had to do was spend a while calibrating it because I wasn't fully happy with it OOTB and believe I have now reached a point where I am content. This was more me being picky than it being crappy from the factory and based on others it seems their RS1s were a bit better out of the box than mine.

The RS1 is my 6th pj in 5 years with the other 5 being LCD units- panny ae100, sanyo z1, sanyo z2, epson 500, sayno z5. I can say that unless something drastically happens to my unit or if some new technological breakthrough happens that transform front projectors I will be using this pj for years to come. I simply do not see how the image could get that much better in order to justify an upgrade for me. No doubt future models that will hit the street will have better performance but I just can't see it being a drastic difference.

Yes, I saw your calibration discussion in the RS1 tweaks thread. Sounds like you have it set where you like it. Congrats.

I will likely join the RS1 bandwagon, but am tempted by the new Epson and its pricing--hence how I got to this Epson thread (and apologies to other readers for getting a bit off topic here with all this RS1 stuff). If I do get the RS1 maybe I'll ask you for some basic settings advice.

rlindo

03-31-07, 08:11 PM

I'm sure you'll be happy with whatever choice you go with.

I'd love to see the Epson and see how next gen LCD compares.

cpc

03-31-07, 08:24 PM

My understanding, from reading zillions of RS1 posts, is that part of what is so spectacular and innovative about the RS1 is that it is a native contrast ratio--i.e. does not require help of an iris. So, it is not just the impressive CR numbers but how this is achieved. Again, not entirely sure how much light colored walls/ceilings would diminish this. Other than the walls/ceiling, my light control is fairly good (annoyingly, my S97 DVD player display is part of the ambient light problem, but will eventually be replaced by an XA2, I hope).

If the lcd display of a dvd player is your ambient light problem, then do not worry. You are ok. For that, I usually get a peice of paper that is dark and fold it so that it hangs over the display but doesn't obscure the remote ir receptor. If only all manufacturers would have offered ultra-dim or total off display modes we wouldn't have this issue. With my Marantz SR 8000 and Yamaha C750 I can get 99.9% darkness. I'm pretty sure lcd displays on components don't affect your perceived black levels or contrast, but I admit they can be distracting. My subwoofers light is distracting. I should put some tape over top of it.

Your major issues are with light sources. If you watch during the day and have windows nearby, then you need to block them out. In my room, I have one window and I cover it 100% with something totally opaque if it's before sundown. Otherwise, at night time, you just have to keep ALL lights off.

rolandlim

03-31-07, 10:51 PM

Pedro,

On very bright scenes the diff isn't gigantic (but still clearly visible) aside from the fact the added resolution and smoothness of the RS1 gives you more detail and a more solid image. The RS1 and the Z5 I believe have a similar ANSI CR rating so the full on/pff won't be as big a benefit here.

On say "medium" type scenes the difference is even greater (imo the on/off starts to play a bigger role here) then on the low apl scenes the difference is gigantic.

As a whole the difference between the two pjs is massive (the added res makes a clear diff with high def content) and the rs1 is easily worth the price difference. Again, there is no haze at all wiht the rs1 on anything that I have seen on it while with the z5 you always had that haze with low apl type scenes. Imagine what you see on the panny in bright scenes (aka the depth, vibrancy, clarity) and that is what you also get on low apl scenes with the rs1.

Oh and yes, the star effect on the Epson would probably be like how it is on the Panny or the Z5. I would guess the Epson would look better wiht more visible stars but they would look closer than what the Epson/RS1 would.

Space/night scenes on the RS1 truly are stunning.

I have no doubt the RS1 is a great projector and congrats on your purchase of the RS1, I am sure you are very happy with it.

But have you actually seen the Epson TW-1000 or the other 1080p D6 LCD projcetors like the Mit HC5000 or the Panasonic PT-AE1000? I don't think you can judge the quality of these new D6 1080p LCD projectors by the quality of the D5 720p Sanyo Z5. In the same way, you cannot judge how good the JVC RS1 is by older generation of JVC D-ILA projectors.

It's one thing raving about how good the JVC RS1, but we need to be more objective here. I have personaly not had a chance to see the RS1 yet, so I cannot comment on how the RS1 compares to the Epson TW-1000, but I have seen other top 1080p projectors contender like the Sharp 20000. The Sharp have receieved very good reviews like the JVC RS1, and although the on-off contrast did not measure as good as the JVC, the measured ANSI contrast was way ahead of the RS1. I have seen at least 3 Sharp 20000 in different setup. I can definitely say that the Epson TW-1000 is really not far behind the Sharp 20000 subjective in all these setup. The difference with contrast and black level were marginal at best.

I would also hesitate to say that the 1080p projectors would have significantly better visual resolution subjectively than the 720p projectors. A lot of people who bought a 1080p projector would like to tell themselves that they have made a great purchase and partially justify their purchase by "trying to see" an increase resolution. A lot of people have written about this topic and in reality, most if not all people really cannot detect any difference in resolution between 720p and 1080p projectors at an average viewing distance of about 1.5x screen width. If you like to sit very close to the screen, something like 1 to 1.2x screen width of closer, then perhaps you can see a bit of resolution difference, but the difference actually is not great.

The advantages of the 1080p projectors vs the last generation of 720p projectors have a lot more to do with things improvement in contrast, black level, decrease SDE than simply about an increase in resolution.

Pedro2

03-31-07, 11:25 PM

rolandlim

03-31-07, 11:30 PM

CPC, I only use the projector at night, so sunlight is not a problem. I don't leave any lights on. But when the projector has bright scenes, I can really tell that the room lights up more than I would like due to the beige walls/white ceiling. Nothing I can do about that at the moment.

Rolandim, for me, the main 1080p advantage is that it primarily facilitates sitting close and eliminating the screen door effect. I sit about 1.3X away from the screen, so this is appealing. I currently have the Panasonic AX100 720p projector, and its main advantage is the smoothscreen technology (but does sacrifice some sharpness). Also, for better or worse, it is on the 1080p projectors that the manufacturers are putting their best stuff--higher quality lenses, processors, etc. Finally, I don't think rlindo was really claiming to know the Epson projector from personal experience, but was just trying to be helpful. I must say, however, that I have yet to hear anyone who has seen both the RS1 and the new crop of 1080p LCDs say there is only a marginal difference between them. I have no doubt the RS1 is the superior projector under ideal lighting conditions, which is why I am particularly interested in finding out if the problem of white walls/ceilings substantially undermines the RS1 advantages. The price difference is not unsubstantial (at least for many people--including myself!).

I was in no way trying to put down the RS1 or made the TW-1000 better than what it is. I was just saying that it would not be fair to judge the quality of the TW-1000 compared to the RS1 by the standard of a D5 LCD projector like the Sanyo Z5. D6 LCD projectors are a major step up and improvement from D5 LCD projectors. Like I said earlier, would you judge the quality of the JVS RS1 by the quality of older generation JVC D-ILA projectors?

Pedro2

03-31-07, 11:50 PM

I was in no way trying to put down the RS1 or made the TW-1000 better than what it is. I was just saying that it would not be fair to judge the quality of the TW-1000 compared to the RS1 by the standard of a D5 LCD projector like the Sanyo Z5. D6 LCD projectors are a major step up and improvement from D5 LCD projectors. Like I said earlier, would you judge the quality of the JVS RS1 by the quality of older generation JVC D-ILA projectors?

Agreed. Though I do get the sense, based on the reviews, that the jump from the old D-ILA LCOS projector to the RS1 is bigger than the jump from the D5 to the D6 (C2fine) LCD projectors. Various forum user reports also suggest this. It is really too bad they are not putting the D6 in 720p projectors--which for many people would be a good match and more affordable. For example, I would probably be more inclined to stick with my AX100 if it had the D6 LCD panel. But of course the manufacturers want people to upgrade to 1080p and pay the extra bucks!

cpc

04-01-07, 12:27 AM

CPC, I only use the projector at night, so sunlight is not a problem. I don't leave any lights on. But when the projector has bright scenes, I can really tell that the room lights up more than I would like due to the beige walls/white ceiling. Nothing I can do about that at the moment.

Rolandim, for me, the main 1080p advantage is that it primarily facilitates sitting close and eliminating the screen door effect. I sit about 1.3X away from the screen, so this is appealing. I currently have the Panasonic AX100 720p projector, and its main advantage is the smoothscreen technology (but does sacrifice some sharpness). Also, for better or worse, it is on the 1080p projectors that the manufacturers are putting their best stuff--higher quality lenses, processors, etc. Finally, I don't think rlindo was really claiming to know the Epson projector from personal experience, but was just trying to be helpful. I must say, however, that I have yet to hear anyone who has seen both the RS1 and the new crop of 1080p LCDs say there is only a marginal difference between them. I have no doubt the RS1 is the superior projector under ideal lighting conditions, which is why I am particularly interested in finding out if the problem of white walls/ceilings substantially undermines the RS1 advantages. The price difference is not unsubstantial (at least for many people--including myself!).

That's a tough call. In my experience, with my TX200 720p projector, I noticed an improvement in contrast when I really blackened out my walls and ceiling around the screen with black flanellette material. The trouble was, it made low light scenes show how grey my blacks were. If I ignored the black area past the screen, it looks fine, and the blacks do look very dark, but it still looks grey. So for you, if you did darken the walls, using a newer projector like a 1080p lcd or RS1 or Pearl you'd have less to worry about.

When my room had more reflections, I didn't notice this as much, but lighter scenes were slightly more washed out. Not terribly, but it was noticable. Not sure how the RS1 would look in this situation, but it certainly wouldn't look at its best.

In your situation, you won't really know until you try. It's too bad you can't change the room colours, but if that's the case, what can you do? Where I put my home theatre next, I will make sure I can "bat-cave" it to dark colours at least a fair amount around the screen.

good luck whatever projector you end up with

:)

rlindo

04-01-07, 12:29 AM

I have no doubt the RS1 is a great projector and congrats on your purchase of the RS1, I am sure you are very happy with it.

But have you actually seen the Epson TW-1000 or the other 1080p D6 LCD projcetors like the Mit HC5000 or the Panasonic PT-AE1000? I don't think you can judge the quality of these new D6 1080p LCD projectors by the quality of the D5 720p Sanyo Z5. In the same way, you cannot judge how good the JVC RS1 is by older generation of JVC D-ILA projectors.

It's one thing raving about how good the JVC RS1, but we need to be more objective here. I have personaly not had a chance to see the RS1 yet, so I cannot comment on how the RS1 compares to the Epson TW-1000, but I have seen other top 1080p projectors contender like the Sharp 20000. The Sharp have receieved very good reviews like the JVC RS1, and although the on-off contrast did not measure as good as the JVC, the measured ANSI contrast was way ahead of the RS1. I have seen at least 3 Sharp 20000 in different setup. I can definitely say that the Epson TW-1000 is really not far behind the Sharp 20000 subjective in all these setup. The difference with contrast and black level were marginal at best.

I would also hesitate to say that the 1080p projectors would have significantly better visual resolution subjectively than the 720p projectors. A lot of people who bought a 1080p projector would like to tell themselves that they have made a great purchase and partially justify their purchase by "trying to see" an increase resolution. A lot of people have written about this topic and in reality, most if not all people really cannot detect any difference in resolution between 720p and 1080p projectors at an average viewing distance of about 1.5x screen width. If you like to sit very close to the screen, something like 1 to 1.2x screen width of closer, then perhaps you can see a bit of resolution difference, but the difference actually is not great.

The advantages of the 1080p projectors vs the last generation of 720p projectors have a lot more to do with things improvement in contrast, black level, decrease SDE than simply about an increase in resolution.

First I did not outright make a conclusion on the Epson or any D6 LCD pj. I merely made comments about what I think would probably be the case in star fields based on a comment that was made. You know what though? It isn't hard to look at CRs and come to a conclusion. If the Epson has a native CR of say 1200:1 (which is what cine4home seemed to get with their tw1000 preview) then it CLEARLY won't perform the same as the RS1 in space type scenes. If you do not think so then go ask the people who have seen or reviewed both. Logic also says that something with a native ratio of say 1200:1 or so will perform more like another unit that has a native ratio of 700-1000:1 than to a unit that is 15000:1. Hell, Art at pjreviews said the difference in star fields between the Pearl and the RS1 is pretty clear but I guess the new LCD units somehow defy logic and will do better than the higher CRed pearl.

Also note that I said that the RS1 probably won't have that much darker full field black than the Epson and the difference will be noted in the other areas (ie like a star field or low APL scenes) because that is where the RS1's native CR shines. Also note that I said bright scenes on the z5 aren't that much inferior to the RS1 and stated the reason I think this is because the ANSI CR is close between the two. Logically the new LCDs should be even better than the Z5 and bright scenes probably are a wash with the RS1.

Oh and the added resolution is clearly visible with 1080 content. I guess though I am merely trying to make myself believe this (the two people I live with also commented on the added visible detail) despite the fact I went in not expecting much of a difference and was surprised at the difference. Oh and the resolution wasn't a real factor in why I got the RS1. Seriously dude, the difference is visible and it would appear many members here would also agree and the most who try and pass the difference off simply do not have a 1080p device. Maybe it is them trying to justify their lower res display than the 1080p guys justifying their higher res. In fact, I have NO CLUE how anyone can't see the difference unless of course they are sitting really far back.

Thanks for setting me straight and btw you don't have to see something to look at the numbers and use logic to form an educated guess/opinion :cool: BTW based on all the reviews I have seen the jump from D5 to D6 in terms of CR isn't huge. If it was you'd probably be seeing native CRs of 3k or higher with them but you clearly do not.

Oh and as for your sharp 20000/epson comments...was the sharp in the high contrast mode? The numbers show that in the other modes than that one the CR is a fair deal lower, especially in the high brightness mode.

rlindo

04-01-07, 01:17 AM

Agreed. Though I do get the sense, based on the reviews, that the jump from the old D-ILA LCOS projector to the RS1 is bigger than the jump from the D5 to the D6 (C2fine) LCD projectors. Various forum user reports also suggest this. It is really too bad they are not putting the D6 in 720p projectors--which for many people would be a good match and more affordable. For example, I would probably be more inclined to stick with my AX100 if it had the D6 LCD panel. But of course the manufacturers want people to upgrade to 1080p and pay the extra bucks!

I say there is no question the jump from JVCs previous units to the RS1 is far greater in terms of CR than the d5 to d6 panel jump and that is the mian difference one would notice since the other things are pretty much equal meaning ANSI on the d5 and d6 units seem close as does the ansi from the old JVC and the new model. What did past JVCs do with on/off? 2k:1, maybe 2.5k:1? Now the RS1 is 15k:1...that's a huge difference.

Meanwhile D5 PJs were in the 700-1000k:1 range while the D6 units seem to have a native of anywhere from 750 (for the mits) to a little over 1.5k for the panny.

It seems to me the biggest gain with the D6 panels is they are inorganic, have faster response time and VB should be fully gone. CR clearly isn't the huge leap like we (well at least me) were led to believe it would be when c2fine was first announced. I was all set to get one of the new LCD models but then I saw how it seemed the CR improvement wasn't the big leap like I thought it would be so I held off and got the z5 instead. However, if the RS1 didnt exist I am pretty certain I'd be buying this Epson unit.

cpc

04-01-07, 10:31 AM

Too bad nobody in the Toronto area has an Epson 1080 to compare. A nice reasonabley done comparison between the two would be most useful to put things in perspective. There are a few RS1 owners in Southern Ontario, but no Epson owners. I was going to make the leap, but I'm not rushing. Probably in April :)

Oiler

04-01-07, 04:42 PM

rlindo

04-01-07, 07:01 PM

For me the big issue as far as a potential upgrade is shadow detail
and performance on very dark scenes. I have an Epson 500 that has
served me very well. However, on very dark scenes I have a sense
that there is a lot missing. I have seen the 720p D5 pj's and did not
feel that there was any real reason to upgrade particularly given that
I like the power zoom of the Epson. (Rob, I would be interested to
hear your comments on the 500 vs z5 gap )
I suspect that the Epson 1080 will be a significant step up from the 500 but if the gap to the RS1 from the Epson 1080 is large, then that would be enough to make me
focus on the JVC which is not that much more than I paid for the 500.

I believe Mandarax carries both JVC and Epson. He may be able to comment
on the two pj's. I have always found his comments to be quite unbiased.

Yeah the Z5 isn't a huge upgrade over the Epson 500. It does offer more shadow detail and has a bit more depth but it isn't anything night and day. I bet the D5 to D6 jump is along similar lines but a bit bigger jump.;) There is no way D5 to D6 will be night and day. The numbers simply prove that isn't the case as do the reviews of D6 Pjs from guys like art at projectorreviews, etc.

Honestly, the RS1 so far above the Z5 that it is easily worth the price and more. I watched Ant Bully on hd dvd today and was blown away and as you mentioned its price is not much more than what the Epson 500 was.

You'll obviously get better shadow detail and better looking APL scenes with the new Epson but you'll still get more with the RS1. The numbers simply don't lie and I don't need to see the Epson to realize that...but again, it does cost twice as much so not like it is apples to apples.

jacksonian

04-01-07, 07:17 PM

There is no way D5 to D6 will be night and day.
You're right, it's not. But on the same screen side by side, the D6 Epson blacks were clearly better than the D5+ Epson. Tough to give an estimate, but it was a significant improvement. I'd love to be able to do the same comparison with the D6 Epson and JVC. If they ever get the backorders caught up and I fail to resist the upgrade urge, I'll do it. But don't get too excited, I'm still trying to vaccinate myself :D (see sig)

TomHuffman

04-01-07, 10:57 PM

I got my hands on one of these today for calibration. I was anxious to spend some time with it as it seems like it has some fairly sophisticated calibration tools and I wanted to see if they worked as advertised. They do.

Contrast/Lumens
I didn't get a chance to measure ANSI contrast, but the On/Off contrast was 1008/1 with auto iris off and 3300/1 with it on. The light ouput depends upon the Color Mode that you run it in. All readings are in the High Brightness mode.

Color Mode Lumens
Theater Black 2: 281
Theater Black 1: 314
Theater: 317
Natural: 314
Livingroom: 502
Dynamic: 896

The color was not even remotely accurate on either Livingroom or Dynamic. The only difference between the remaining Modes (except Theater Black 2) was that they invoked different user settings. Theater Black 2 had a lower black level, but less light output as well. I settled on Theater Black 1. Although the fan noise is higher, I think that for all but those with very high gain screens that the High brightness mode will be best.

User Settings
Tint: 0
Color: 0
Skin Tone: 3
Color Temp: 6500K
Sharpness: -3
Brightness: High

The Skin Tone adjustment is an unusual feature. It seems to affect the amount of green in the image. A setting of 3 seems to offer about the most neutral image.

Color performance
If there was ever a projector that benefited from professional calibration, then this is it. In the Advanced menu, the RGB Gains and Offsets allow you to dial in an almost perfect gray scale, but it takes some work. The default settings are not anywhere near close to accurate.

Gray scale before Calibration
http://home.comcast.net/~tlhuffman/epson/rgb_before.gif

Gray scale after Calibration
http://home.comcast.net/~tlhuffman/epson/rgb_after.gif

Even more exiting for a professional calibrator or obsessive tweaker is the Color Management System. It works like a charm.

Chromaticity before
http://home.comcast.net/~tlhuffman/epson/cie_before.gif

Chromaticity after
http://home.comcast.net/~tlhuffman/epson/cie_after.gif

I encountered only one problem. I could not reign in Cyan. As you can see, even after setting its saturation to zero, it was still oversaturated. The Natural Color Mode may fix this. I'll check tomorrow.

Here's an example of what calibration can achieve with this projector.

Before calibration
http://home.comcast.net/~tlhuffman/epson/cms_off.jpg

After calibration
http://home.comcast.net/~tlhuffman/epson/cms_on.jpg

Some people actually prefer the oversaturated colors, but once you've gotten used to accurate color, you can't go back.

The only problem with the color performance is that the color decoder is inaccurate, and I did not have the service menu access code to hunt for a control to fix this.

Problems

In comparison to my reference projector, the Sharp XV-Z20000, the Epson faired surprisingly well considering that it costs about 1/3 of the Sharp. However, there were four areas in which the Sharp offered superior performance.

1. Native contrast. With the Sharp in it medium iris mode, it offers higher CR than the Epson even with its dynamic iris engaged. Although I didn't measure the Epson, I am certain that it has considerably lower ANSI contrast as well. The result is an image that is relatively flat and occasionally hazy compared to the more expensive DLP unit.

2. Color decoding. As mentioned above, the TW1000's color decoder is inaccurate and the Sharp's is spot on. Furthermore, although the Epson has a CMS that allows you to adjust color saturation and hue, it does not include an adjustment for color intensity, which would have allowed a calibrator to fix the color decoding problem.

3. Color uniformity. I am starting to think that this is a problem endemic to all 3-chip designs. A white field shows areas of discoloration and even color fields reveal areas in which the tint of the color is skewed. I have reason to believe that there will be a commercial product in the next year or two that will fix this, but until then, LCD (and to a lesser extent 3-chip DLP and LCoS) users will just have to put up with this.

One area that I did NOT see any problem was convergence. The 3 panels were aligned almost perfectly. There was perhaps half a pixel of error on the far right side of the screen that was invisible from any reasonable seating distance.

4. Sharpness. The LCD design has a relatively low fill factor compared to DLP or LCoS. The result of this, at least with respect to the Z20000, is a somewhat less sharp and refined image. The difference is small though and you probably wouldn't notice it unless you saw them side by side. Edit: I discovered that the projector had been set to the 94% scaling mode, which rescales an incoming 1080i signal. You pay a sharpness penalty for this. With the scaling set to 100%, I would say that the Epson's sharpness is just about as good as it gets.

Summary
I enthusiastically recommend this projector. This is the best LCD projector I've ever encountered, though I haven't seen the new Mitsubishi or Panasonic 1080P models. It's high resolution panels are ideal for the new generation of HD discs, and its high contrast (using auto iris) is perfect for movie watching. I as especially impressed by its unusually flexible complement of tools that allow for careful adjustment of most of the important parameters of performance. At $3K it is a steal.

rlindo

04-01-07, 11:22 PM

You're right, it's not. But on the same screen side by side, the D6 Epson blacks were clearly better than the D5+ Epson. Tough to give an estimate, but it was a significant improvement. I'd love to be able to do the same comparison with the D6 Epson and JVC. If they ever get the backorders caught up and I fail to resist the upgrade urge, I'll do it. But don't get too excited, I'm still trying to vaccinate myself :D (see sig)

I have no doubt that the Epson and the JVC would have very similar full field black level. Why? Because the Epson in its best mode is half the brightness of the JVC and then with the iris closing down you will drop down a bit more in lumen output. If the Epson at 260 lumens (what cine4home seems to have got with their preview unit) and the RS1 at 500+ lumens produce the same black level then just think what the RS1's black would be at 260 lumens. Or on the flip side, what would the Epson black level be like at 500-700 lumens. Logically it won't be what the RS1's level is.

I think the real area that needs to be talked about is the contrast ratio. If the Epson has a native ratio of 1200:1 and its black is very low then the white level (withouth using the DI) can't be very high. This is why I say the diff betwen D5 and D6 can't be that night and day because the non DI CRs are not dramatically different between the two so the difference between absolute black/white will have generally the same range. This is where the RS1 will show the biggest difference and it influences many aspects of the image.

I think many need to take into account the RS1s brightness and understand that it is a unit that (at least compared to the Epson) has twice the brightness, better on/off CR and most likely at least as good full field black level. There is a pretty good "wow" factor when you combine all that and see it on screen. Night/low APL scenes on the RS1 truly look as good as any other type of scene it produces. The level of depth is damn impressive and there seems to be no NO HAZE (I'm sorry but I am sure the Epson has some haze in these types of scenes but users may not notice it if they have never seen something that has less or no haze) or that "dim" look you get with a lower lumen output. It's somewhat hard to describe what it looks like though but when you see it it really does provide that "wow."

I hope I do not come off here as trying to trash the Epson because I'm not. I think based on user reports and the specs it looks like a hell of a PJ and a steal for 3k and once again if the RS1 never existed or if I didn't have the money for it I'd buy the Epson 1080 in a heartbeat because I have no doubt it produces a fantastic image. Factor in all the user adjustments it has to dial in things (this is the RS1s main weakness IMO) to be perfect or close to perfect and you get even more of a bang for your buck. Epson should hopefully sell a bundle of these and that makes me happy because of the 3 main LCD pj companies (epson, sanyo, panny) still going today (and I have owned pjs from each) Epson is by far my favourite.

Oh and I have no doubt you'll upgrade to the RS1...the temptation will kill you.:)

cathor

04-01-07, 11:50 PM

I got my hands on one of these today for calibration. I was anxious to spend some time with it as it seems like it has some fairly sophisticated calibration tools and I wanted to see if they worked as advertised. They do.

Thanks Tom. It was great meeting you today. I really enjoyed our conversation although I wish you'd never mentioned the DALI speakers - more money than I initially planned to spend..... :)

I think your write-up has helped answer a lot of the questions that have been around for a while on this thread and I've learned a lot from your posting.

Thanks again.

cpc

04-02-07, 12:19 AM

3. Color uniformity. I am starting to think that this is a problem endemic to all 3-chip designs. A white field shows areas of discoloration and even color fields reveal areas in which the tint of the color is skewed. I have reason to believe that there will be a commercial product in the next year or two that will fix this, but until then, LCD (and to a lesser extent 3-chip DLP and LCoS) users will just have to put up with this.

So I guess it's not obvious how to tweak the colour uniformity? On the Hitachi TX100 and TX200 there are extensive tweaks that allow you to seriously minimize or even practically eliminate colour non-uniformity. I am positive I saw something where Epson projectors employed this tweaking technology. Although it doesn't sound like a huge problem, somebody needs to check and see if this is available in a secret/service menu.

leckian

04-02-07, 11:04 PM

Yeah, the least he could do is question Epson about the two units and their internals... he'd find out sooner than we would.

These are differences that are known:
Home has similar specs to the Pro Cinema 1080 but:

NO AMX or Crestron certification,
NO ISF certification
NO ISF menu'ing and NO ISF lock out modes.

cathor

04-02-07, 11:09 PM

NO ISF menu'ing and NO ISF lock out modes.

Not sure what you mean - please provide more detail. Is it the CMS you're referencing or the service menu? Thanks.

wwyjoe

04-02-07, 11:20 PM

User Settings[/B]
Tint: 0
Color: 0
Skin Tone: 3
Color Temp: 6500K
Sharpness: -3
Brightness: High

Hi Tom, all these your calibrated settings for Theatre Black 1? How about Contrast?

Could you also share your settings under the Advanced menu after calibration? Thanks!

Pedro2

04-02-07, 11:49 PM

Tom, thanks for the calibration info etc. What most surprises me is that the Epson is actually not very bright at all, certainly not compared to the RS1. I would think that one area the next generation of 1080p projectors will improve on is brightness. You end your comments with an enthusiastic thumbs up based on price in relation to performance. But there is the added cost of a much needed professional calibration on this projector, and the low lumens is cause for concern, especially assuming the bulb will lose half brightness after 100 plus hours or so.

cathor

04-03-07, 12:13 AM

But there is the added cost of a much needed professional calibration on this projector, and the low lumens is cause for concern, especially assuming the bulb will lose half brightness after 100 plus hours or so.

The projector Tom calibrated has about 120 hours on it if I remember correctly.

TomHuffman

04-03-07, 12:51 AM

What most surprises me is that the Epson is actually not very bright at all, certainly not compared to the RS1.There's only so much light available from a 170 watt bulb.

Dimitris

04-03-07, 04:53 AM

Hi everyone. I have a TW1000 review sample and I 've been facing a weird issue. As I usually do, I used my PC and Nokia monitor test to display some test patterns, among which are convergence test patterns. Since I was feeding the Epson through HDMI at 1080p, I had 1:1 pixel mapping and the pattern lines were 1 pixel thick. Well the image I got was unique to say the least. I tried again, this time feeding the pj 720p and the results were slightly different but again not what I expected as normal behavior. All vertical lines were displaying various levels of gray instead of primary or complimentary colors and in the case of primary colors test patterns the horizontal lines were also missing some colors. Check the images below to see what I mean. Personally I'm out of ideas as to why this is happening, since to my recollection I've never seen this before. Note that while viewing normal video material played through the PC everything looks fine. Any ideas? Owners of TW1000 can test this yourselves by downloading Nokia monitor test (it's free) from here: http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multimedia/Video/Other-VIDEO-Tools/Nokia-Monitor-Test.shtml I would initially like to rule out a malfunction of my particular sample and then move from there as to the actual reason for this, so if you try this on your Epson, please post your findings.

Pictures taken with my digital camera:
Alternating RGB crosshatch pattern with overlayed circle
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/9494/picture008zk3.th.jpg (http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture008zk3.jpg)

Cyan crosshatch pattern with overlayed circle
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/9892/picture009yh0.th.jpg (http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture009yh0.jpg)

Reference screenshot of the RGB pattern captured using prtscn button
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/196/referencefv3.th.png (http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=referencefv3.png)

Edit: Just to get theories started, I think we can safely assume that this has nothing to do with the optics, but is signal processing related, either at the pj or the pc, since in order to display gray lines on primary colors test patterns, the projector would have to add equal amounts of R,G,B where only one of these existed in the original pattern.

cpc

04-03-07, 10:58 AM

jacksonian

04-03-07, 01:38 PM

I think many need to take into account the RS1s brightness and understand that it is a unit that (at least compared to the Epson) has twice the brightness,
D'oh!

better on/off CR
D'oh! (and according to Cine4home it's 12,000:1 compared to 1200:1)

and most likely at least as good full field black level. There is a pretty good "wow" factor when you combine all that and see it on screen.
D'oh!

...all the user adjustments it has to dial in things (this is the RS1s main weakness IMO...
D'oh! (I hate calibrating--so the RS1 is PERFECT for me!)

Oh and I have no doubt you'll upgrade to the RS1...the temptation will kill you.:)
DAMNIT! My goose is cooked. :D

davedelite

04-03-07, 02:22 PM

DAMNIT! My goose is cooked. :D

Don't come to me to take your sloppy seconds again!! I am just fine with the tw-700......for now!

I am tracking these developments as well. But, I will not ...NOT...tolerate reduction in "punchability" from the power of brightness. Hence, I want to see what happens in the next rev of the 1080p's. But, I consider the RS1 to be in that field already insofar as its brightness at D65 and "Best Modes." Just doesn't look to me that for sports viewing it has the same headroom in brightness that the Epson's (especially tw700) might have. I think it will be fall before we see much new to compare the RS1 against, and then we can consider the delta vs. the current crop of Epson 1080p's and the RS1.

Joe_Black

04-03-07, 03:36 PM

D'oh!

D'oh! (and according to Cine4home it's 12,000:1 compared to 1200:1)

D'oh!

D'oh! (I hate calibrating--so the RS1 is PERFECT for me!)

DAMNIT! My goose is cooked. :D

hehe this is the funniest post I've read in a really time, I'm still laughing.
You really didn't think you'd escape from upgraditis did you ? :p

Joe_Black

04-03-07, 03:57 PM

I got my hands on one of these today for calibration...

Tom, thanks for your thorough and insightful report.

I'm not sure if you've had the chance to read Cine4Home's testing review (http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&langpair=de%7Cen&u=http://www.cine4home.de/Specials/EpsonEMPTW1000/TW1000Preview.htm&prev=/language_tool) on the Epson, but more than any other reviews, I find them to be technically thorough and trustworthy.

Cine4home before calibration CIE - Epson 1080

http://www.cine4home.de/Tuning/EpsonEMPTW1000/Bild18.jpg

http://www.cine4home.de/Specials/EpsonEMPTW1000/Bild20.jpg

Cine4home after calibration CIE - Epson 1080

http://www.cine4home.de/Tuning/EpsonEMPTW1000/Bild19.jpg

http://www.cine4home.de/Specials/EpsonEMPTW1000/Bild21.jpg

Ekkehart's calibration results seem impressive. Might want to check with him on how he adjusted his settings to get this result. His username here is Cine4Home.

TomHuffman

04-03-07, 04:54 PM

Might want to check with him on how he adjusted his settings to get this result.Don't know exactly what you would want me to check. We got virtually identical post-calibration results.

Dimitris

04-03-07, 05:19 PM

Have you tried any other program material? Test dvd's? I wonder if you could make files out of those Nokia test patterns and put them on a CD-RW or DVD+RW and play them through an HDMI connected dvd player and see what happens.

None of the test dvds I have feature similar patterns. Normal crosshatch patterns with white lines like those found on most test dvds do not display this issue. As for the CD-RW that's a good idea, however I had to return the projector today, so I can't perform any further tests. I will keep it in mind though in case I get my hands on another TW1000 in the future. In the meantime any TW1000 owners with a PC willing to test this? I would at least like to rule out having a defective item. Use of the Nokia monitor test is very simple, you don't even have to install it on your pc.

Joe_Black

04-03-07, 05:53 PM

Don't know exactly what you would want me to check. We got virtually identical post-calibration results.

Tom,
Thought Ekkehart might offer some insight on this comment from your review.

I encountered only one problem. I could not reign in Cyan. As you can see, even after setting its saturation to zero, it was still oversaturated. The Natural Color Mode may fix this. I'll check tomorrow.

tutch

04-03-07, 08:30 PM

Hi everyone. I have a TW1000 review sample and I 've been facing a weird issue. As I usually do, I used my PC and Nokia monitor test to display some test patterns, among which are convergence test patterns. Since I was feeding the Epson through HDMI at 1080p, I had 1:1 pixel mapping and the pattern lines were 1 pixel thick. Well the image I got was unique to say the least. I tried again, this time feeding the pj 720p and the results were slightly different but again not what I expected as normal behavior. All vertical lines were displaying various levels of gray instead of primary or complimentary colors and in the case of primary colors test patterns the horizontal lines were also missing some colors. Check the images below to see what I mean. Personally I'm out of ideas as to why this is happening, since to my recollection I've never seen this before. Note that while viewing normal video material played through the PC everything looks fine. Any ideas? Owners of TW1000 can test this yourselves by downloading Nokia monitor test (it's free) from here: [snip] I would initially like to rule out a malfunction of my particular sample and then move from there as to the actual reason for this, so if you try this on your Epson, please post your findings.

Pictures taken with my digital camera:

I get the exact same result on the RGB pattern.

More interestingly, when i access the gamma setting by remote control it freezes the picture and all the colors and lines are displayed perfectly. So there is probably some processing that helps things look good with movies, but not with still computer images (through the hdmi port). Fiddling with other settings like sharpness on the projector or changing display timings in nvidia control panel does not change this. The info slider says the signal is RGB-video. Any way to change this?

It's also slightly visible with thin colored text (not black or white), 50% of the text has a different tone than the other 50%, while none of the parts has the exact correct color.

Amazingly, as I was fiddling with the gamma controls trying to find a solution, when I access gamma so the picture freezes, and then press memory button, and then escaping by for instance pressing memory button again the menu disappears and the picture unfreezes. The previously mentioned processing circuit seems to be disabled leaving a pixel perfect screen. After doing this "trick" the projector passes "the nokia test" !!!

Cheers :)

cpc

04-03-07, 08:52 PM

I get the exact same result on the RGB pattern.

More interestingly, when i access the gamma setting by remote control it freezes the picture and all the colors and lines are displayed perfectly. So there is probably some processing that helps things look good with movies, but not with still computer images (through the hdmi port). Fiddling with other settings like sharpness on the projector or changing display timings in nvidia control panel does not change this. The info slider says the signal is RGB-video. Any way to change this?

It's also slightly visible with thin colored text (not black or white), 50% of the text has a different tone than the other 50%, while none of the parts has the exact correct color.

Amazingly, as I was fiddling with the gamma controls trying to find a solution, when I access gamma so the picture freezes, and then press memory button, and then escaping by for instance pressing memory button again the menu disappears and the picture unfreezes. The previously mentioned processing circuit seems to be disabled leaving a pixel perfect screen. After doing this "trick" the projector passes "the nokia test" !!!

Cheers :)

Is there some setting in the de-interlacer? Film, auto or other??

TomHuffman

04-04-07, 12:10 AM

Tom,
Thought Ekkehart might offer some insight on this comment from your review. OK. It's a very small difference, small enough to attribute to unit-to-unit variation.

Dimitris

04-04-07, 03:06 AM

I get the exact same result on the RGB pattern.

More interestingly, when i access the gamma setting by remote control it freezes the picture and all the colors and lines are displayed perfectly. So there is probably some processing that helps things look good with movies, but not with still computer images (through the hdmi port). Fiddling with other settings like sharpness on the projector or changing display timings in nvidia control panel does not change this. The info slider says the signal is RGB-video. Any way to change this?

Cheers :)

Thanks tutch, good catch! So we can rule out defective sample. Looks like a deinterlacer issue. The thing is though that since in my case (and I'm guessing yours as well) the signal fed to the projector was progressive, the deinterlacer shouldn't have interfered at all. Hopefully this is something that can be fixed with a firmware upgrade, I'll try to contact Epson and get an official response on this. As to the info saying RGB-video, try changing the setting for the HDMI port and see if that makes any difference. I'm talking about the "HDMI video range" setting in the Signal menu. During my test I had it in Expanded mode. If that's what you had too, try setting in to Normal (although I'm guessing it will have no effect on the pattern). Also try changing the "output scaling" setting. I'm guessing the pattern will change, but will it revert to normal?

Is there some setting in the de-interlacer? Film, auto or other??

As far as I can remember, no.

spikerules

04-04-07, 12:40 PM

You are all getting a tad too technical for me, but from what I have experienced from my Epson TW-1000, I would take a step back and wait. I have had numerous teething problems with my Epson since it arrived and even had a replacement rejected (by me) for having worse artefacts than those of the original TW-1000 I had (and still have).

I am now waiting on Epson to send an engineer around to me (which I hope they do sooner rather than later - even though they havent admited they will as of yet) so that I can show them the artefacts, which will hopefully make their engineer tell Epson to pull their fingers out. I am not the only one having this problem and the sooner Epson acknowledge it the better for their home PJ market.

The symptoms range from what appears to be miss aligned panels to ghosting/ringing on text and straight edges via windows/PS3 and Mac browsers and finally (another issue I noticed under dark scenes in C&C3 and 24) a dust blob in the top right hand corner of the screen. Strangely enough, my BenQ PE7700 had the same issues with dust. However, in the case of this Epson, the results of the dust blob are not as severe and limited to a VERY small patch, whereas the BenQ had multiple dust blobs.

Anyways, I am sure that Epson are getting complaints from others as I know at least of a couple of one person on the uk avforum with the same issue, but I do not know what their plans are, as of yet. I do know that I've been told from a reliable source that Epson try hard to fix issues they have with their kit and are normally a good company when it comes to warrenty etc. I just hope they are aware of the problem and even if it is limited to a few people I hope they find the time to fix the issues with this model.

cpc

04-04-07, 07:13 PM

spikerules

04-04-07, 08:06 PM

Thanks tutch, good catch! So we can rule out defective sample. Looks like a deinterlacer issue. The thing is though that since in my case (and I'm guessing yours as well) the signal fed to the projector was progressive, the deinterlacer shouldn't have interfered at all. Hopefully this is something that can be fixed with a firmware upgrade, I'll try to contact Epson and get an official response on this. As to the info saying RGB-video, try changing the setting for the HDMI port and see if that makes any difference. I'm talking about the "HDMI video range" setting in the Signal menu. During my test I had it in Expanded mode. If that's what you had too, try setting in to Normal (although I'm guessing it will have no effect on the pattern). Also try changing the "output scaling" setting. I'm guessing the pattern will change, but will it revert to normal?

As far as I can remember, no.

Yeah I also noticed that the RGB gamut still image in the menu options clears the problems! If only it would work when not still....

Summerfogel

04-04-07, 09:20 PM

rolandlim

04-04-07, 10:10 PM

hello there

first of all, thank you all for this great thread.

i first saw a picture of the tw 1000 in a magazin around january. from this time on, i started to search the forums about this beamer.

unfortunately my favorite shop in switzerland has not yet recieved a model, to check it out by myself.

i have some questions about the beamer. i'm not sure if someone already mentioned it, i read almost every post to this thread and i used the search function, with no answer to my question.

i plan to use the tw1000 with my brand new ps3, mostly to watch blu ray movies, and to play some fun games with it. as a matter of fact, i use my computer for the dvd playback, and i also want to be able to play pc games on it.

1.1: does anyone know, or could anyone test, if the beamer makes the 1080p @ 60hz?

1.2: i guess for quality purpose it would be best, just to change the cable, between pc (with a dvi to hdmi adapter) and ps3, because it's only one hdmi connector.
i'm afraid losing quality with a switchbox, or connecting the computer only with component input. what do you think?

1.3: is the beamer only available in black?

i have two other questions, not directly connected with the epson beamer, but also not really offtopic:

2.1 i can not find a read only blu ray drive anywhere. (the main reasen i bought a ps3)
does anyone know why?

2.2 and whats with the region areas A, B and C. i can not find any information about the region code on amazon or ohter online shops. i prefer buying some movies from the states, mainly because of the available dts (or now uncompressed audio) sound in english and always subtitle in english. (i can't understand why they don't add the english subtitle on some german spoken movies; eg. Man on Fire, it's just a few megs).

thanks a lot

cheers

Summerfogel

1.1 yes, of course the TW-1000 can do 1080p60. I don't know of any 1080p projector that cannot do 1080p60

1.2 actually, there should be little if any noticeable difference if you pass digital video signal via a HDMI switcher or connect it directly to the projector.

1.3 I think in Europe, it will be only available in Black. In Japan, it is in white. In US, it is available in both black and white. For the rest of the world, it looks like it is only available in black.

2.1 Do you mean a read only Blu-ray drive for computer? Well, I haven't done much research into this topic, but why don't you want to use a read and write Blu-ray drive in your computer?

2.2 you can learn about the Blu-ray region coding here:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc
unfortunately, Europe is not in the same region as US.

the following is a list of region coded discs:-
http://bluray.lindsite.dk/

Dimitris

04-05-07, 02:59 AM

Has anybody noticed this sort of problem showing up with dvd's? Anything that would lead you to suspect that this monitor test pattern problem is proof of an issue that shows up when watching dvd's or hd material?

I saw 2-3 movies on the projector, both simple DVD and HD material and I could not see any indication of the issue. Seems to affect only static images.

jacksonian

04-05-07, 06:28 AM

Mine looks fantastic with movies, tv, whatever. I don't look at static images on my pj, so I can't comment on that, but there are no artifact issues with regular material.

mooneycj

04-05-07, 11:33 AM

I have the Pro Cinema 1080, and I just got a PS3 the day before yesterday. Blu-Ray is fantastic. I've watched 2 movies so far, no glitches. I'm connected HDMI directly to the projector at 1080P. Being able to load photos, stream MP3's, play video games and surf the internet wirelessly on teh PS3 are all bonuses. I love this combination. Standard DVD doesn't look half bad either.

mooneycj

briandx

04-05-07, 06:02 PM

I'll add that I also have spent over 2 months with this projector, and artifacting on both standard DVD (upconverted to 1080i) and HD material is simply not a problem whatsoever.

Standard cable channels look like crap, but that is to be expected...

davedelite

04-05-07, 06:16 PM

Sorry if this is a repeat of other information, but it is confirmed now that there is no real difference between the Powerlite Pro Cinema 1080, the Powerlite Home Cinema 1080, or the EMP-tw1000. I just found the Owners Manual (just posted recently) on the Epson website for the PowerLite Home Cinema 1080 and in the Declaration of Conformity section just before the Appendix, it references itself as being the EMP-tw1000 and that the Home Cinema 1080 is just a marketing name. This is significant because the Pro Cinema 1080 states the same. It references itself as the EMP-tw1000 and that the Pro Cinema 1080 is just a marketing name.

Looks like Epson is finally getting real in their approach to the U.S. market by releasing a U.S. model that is on par with the International equivalent model on a direct sale basis to the consumer at a relative equivalent price.

Link below. (had to get at it another way since it is not available right from the Home Cinema 1080 reference page yet)

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/support/supDetail.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&infoType=Doc&oid=88339

Summerfogel

04-05-07, 08:53 PM

2.1 Do you mean a read only Blu-ray drive for computer? Well, I haven't done much research into this topic, but why don't you want to use a read and write Blu-ray drive in your computer?

2.2 you can learn about the Blu-ray region coding here:-
unfortunately, Europe is not in the same region as US.

the following is a list of region coded discs:-

thank you for your quick and helpful answer.

2.1 yes i meant a read only blu-ray drive.
i just want to play the movies. i don't even have a dvd-burner in my pc. lol!
but i think i found a interessting drive while i was surfing through the urls you've posted. the GGW-H10N from LG, it's a hybrid drive, that can read and write blu-ray and playback hd-dvd.
in combination with any-dvd i guess i have free access to wathever disc format or region code there is.

i mainly bought the ps3 because it's the cheapest bd player. of course i'm looking forward to titles like gt5 or tekken. :)

2.2 i read about the region areas in the german version of the blu-ray description on wikipedia, but i couldn't find information about the region code on the movies itself. eg. amazon writes with dvd always the region code, with blu-ray there's no information about the code.
the list on your second url was very helpful.
i think it takes a little more time for all shops, to update and convert their libary.

so then, i'm looking forward to end my installation here in brasil and find the epson emp-tw1000 back home somewhere :)

cheers

lol, i had to remove the urls because i'm a newby to this forum :)

Digital2004

04-05-07, 10:10 PM

hi

how are the black levels, the contrast ? the JVC RS1/ HD1 as set the bar so high every projector is compared to it. what about the TW1000 and the PANA AE1000 and the MITSU ?
one feature interesting is that the TW1000 can be very bright in a white living room, reaching 1200ansi measured (of course not at D65 :D ). How is shading? often an issue or not ?
thanks.

Superfly77

04-07-07, 01:24 AM

Summerfogel

I have hooked up a PS3 to the TW1000. It looks great on a 100' screen. The games are very impressive. I have also watched a few BR movies and they are great, but it depends on the title. Some of them are still sub par transfers. In the future, the BR movies will be an increadible format based on the glimpse I have had.
Cheers
Sam

Superfly77

04-07-07, 01:39 AM

D'oh!

D'oh! (and according to Cine4home it's 12,000:1 compared to 1200:1)

D'oh!

D'oh! (I hate calibrating--so the RS1 is PERFECT for me!)

DAMNIT! My goose is cooked. :D

Hey B

You are insane!! are you really looking at switching again?
There must be a 12 step program for upgradeitis....!

Drop me an email from the Betty Ford and let me know if you have decided to jump ship!

S

jacksonian

04-07-07, 04:30 PM

Hey B

You are insane!! are you really looking at switching again?
There must be a 12 step program for upgradeitis....!

Drop me an email from the Betty Ford and let me know if you have decided to jump ship!

S
Yeah, it's an affliction/addiction. It tricks you into thinking you'll be satisfied as soon as you get the next one, and then something better always comes along. I'm really starting to feel the pinch since there's not much room left to grow.

But I will say one thing, I'm not a grumbly, grouchy, unhappy upgrader. I really enjoy the researching and learning process and I REALLY love unpacking a new toy. I'm not going to throw up test screens and nitpick something to death and complain that I bought it. I love each one for a little while and then set it free :D

See, that puts me over in the "powder upgrade" wing of the clinic rather than the "crack upgrade" wing with the Upgraders Anonymous meetings and all :D :D

But I did participate in Step 1. I admitted that I enjoy the hobby of electronics more than I enjoy the actual movies (most of which disappoint me).

spikerules

04-08-07, 04:39 PM

Has anyone had any luck in solving the PC input text problems? Also, have Epson 1080p owners noticed that it is VERY hard to focus the lens? It will NEVER quite be crystal clear for me, even when setting all the menu sharpness to advanced and hi...

I'm getting VERY depressed with this PJ. My PJ issues keep rising by the day!

Soft focus
Gamut/text errors on PC/PS3/Mac text
Dust Blobs
Badly aligned panels creating green and red tints on both sides of screen

You can see why I am VERY annoyed with this PJ right now. It started well, then more and more issues started to manifest. The text and panel alignment issues were there from the start and now the others issues have begun to manifest. I wonder what I will find tomorrow! Probably wont even start....

cathor

04-08-07, 05:07 PM

Get it replaced under warranty. The issues you mention are not normal.

Has anyone had any luck in solving the PC input text problems? Also, have Epson 1080p owners noticed that it is VERY hard to focus the lens? It will NEVER quite be crystal clear for me, even when setting all the menu sharpness to advanced and hi...

I'm getting VERY depressed with this PJ. My PJ issues keep rising by the day!

Soft focus
Gamut/text errors on PC/PS3/Mac text
Dust Blobs
Badly aligned panels creating green and red tints on both sides of screen

You can see why I am VERY annoyed with this PJ right now. It started well, then more and more issues started to manifest. The text and panel alignment issues were there from the start and now the others issues have begun to manifest. I wonder what I will find tomorrow! Probably wont even start....

jacksonian

04-08-07, 05:29 PM

spikerules

04-08-07, 08:52 PM

You must have a defective unit, I don't have any of those problems at all. Mine looks great.

This is the funny part... (well to anyone that ISN'T me) I have the replacement unit in a box at home. I had it delivered about a week ago. The thing is, it was WORSE, at the time, of my current PJ. The focus was bad (although not as bad as the original one) and the alignment issues were more noticeable. I told the seller that I would keep the original one, and then to my horror, the dust blobs and focus issues started again. I am now currently awaiting word from Epson (after the Easter weekend) on what their next move will be.

I want a service engineer to come onsite so that I can show them my issues and prove to them without them ingoring me. If the engineer is there and I have backup, I can simply show them the problem and they cannot then ignore the FACTS.

I had similar issues with my PE7700.. dust blobs and focus issues... I'm thinking of giving up on projectors now:(

jacksonian

04-08-07, 11:03 PM

Doesn't make sense that you have dust blobs on 2 units within such a short time (and on your other pj too). Where is this dust coming from?

Sounds like you maybe should give up on projectors.

spikerules

04-08-07, 11:56 PM

Doesn't make sense that you have dust blobs on 2 units within such a short time (and on your other pj too). Where is this dust coming from?

Sounds like you maybe should give up on projectors.

There are no dust blobs on the replacement PJ. The dust blobs on my current Epson started to show up AFTER I rejected the replacement for having focus and alignment issues. My CURRENT Benq PE7700 is fine (apart from the fan failing) and I have had that for over a year now. The BenQ is being fixed as we speak.

spikerules

04-08-07, 11:59 PM

You must have a defective unit, I don't have any of those problems at all. Mine looks great.

Btw I am not the only person having issues. This forum proves that.

jacksonian

04-09-07, 06:20 AM

I didn't say there were no issues with this pj, of course they all have their problems. But I haven't heard anyone else having your problems of dust blobs and focus.

cathor

04-09-07, 07:59 AM

I didn't say there were no issues with this pj, of course they all have their problems. But I haven't heard anyone else having your problems of dust blobs and focus.

I agree - this is the first time I hear of focus and dust blob issues with this projector. Have you checked to see if scaling is set to 100%?

spikerules

04-09-07, 11:09 AM

I agree - this is the first time I hear of focus and dust blob issues with this projector. Have you checked to see if scaling is set to 100%?

I have the scaling set to 100%. Is this the problem? If my PC input is not at 100% scaling then the PJ cuts of my taskbar in Windows... I need it on underscan so I can see everything. Is this the problem with focus I am having? I found it strange that the scaling was on 92% as default.

cathor

04-09-07, 09:41 PM

I have the scaling set to 100%. Is this the problem? If my PC input is not at 100% scaling then the PJ cuts of my taskbar in Windows... I need it on underscan so I can see everything. Is this the problem with focus I am having? I found it strange that the scaling was on 92% as default.

Scaling should be at 100% so that doesn't seem to an issue. I also wondered about the 92% default.

iwanrs

04-10-07, 12:24 AM

Weird thing:

I have my Epson's HDMI input connected to my Samsung Blu-ray, Toshiba HD-DVD, Oppo, Cable TV and HTPC via a Monogram 5.1 HDMI Switcher.
All signal are OK, only from HTPC DVI output (using DVI-HDMI cable from Monogram) is not recognized by Epson (no signal). The same DVI output works perfectly with my Samsung 19" LCD monitor (via DVI input). I tried many options by using difference cables and adapters, with no result. WHY?

Is there any In-Compatibility problem? Or need special setting at EPSON?

I will try any possibility/suggestion.

THANKS.

cathor

04-10-07, 07:31 AM

cpc

04-10-07, 09:49 AM

Is anybody using an iScan HD+ with the Epson?

kwokyan

04-10-07, 10:19 AM

Knuck

04-10-07, 04:53 PM

Are there any Canadians that have bought this projector from a Canadian dealer? The MSRP is $5999.99 CDN which is ridiculous. It does not appear that the "Home" version which retails for 2999.99 USD is available in Canada.

Please let me know if there are any dealers that offer this in Canada (all the ones I have spoken to tell me Pro or Home units are not available to them) and if so, please PM with pricing.

Thanks

lizard_king

04-10-07, 04:59 PM

Knuck

04-10-07, 05:46 PM

Thanks Lizard_King.

iwanrs

04-10-07, 10:31 PM

Have you taken the switcher out of the equation? If not, try and connect the HTPC directly to the Epson.

I have tried that with no result (same thing). :eek:

iwanrs

04-10-07, 10:36 PM

What is the output resolution of your computer? Did you try to use 1920x1080?

Yes. This is really frustrating. Have someone the same situation?

BTW, I am using MyHD's DVI outputs, one connected to VGA via a blue combi-cable provided by MyHD and the second DVI conected to Epson via DVI to HDMI cable from Monogram. The cable is OK, I have few and tried them all with the same "no signal" result.. :eek:

video_bit_bucket

04-10-07, 11:03 PM

I have just purchased one in Ottawa and will PM you with price. Still trying to get it functioning with my Anthem AVM50 (not an issue with the PJ).

Did you get the home or Pro version. If you have the home version do you think it is the same projector as the Pro/EMP-TW1000.

Two local Epson dealers have different stories on the Home version. One says it is going to be only an online offering. The other says his Epson rep tells him the home unit has a different lens (yielding lower contrast), fewer presets, shorter warranty, and no second bulb.

Looking to find out what the reality is.

John Clark

04-10-07, 11:34 PM

Did you get the home or Pro version. If you have the home version do you think it is the same projector as the Pro/EMP-TW1000.

Two local Epson dealers have different stories on the Home version. One says it is going to be only an online offering. The other says his Epson rep tells him the home unit has a different lens (yielding lower contrast), fewer presets, shorter warranty, and no second bulb.

Looking to find out what the reality is.

A friend of mine is an Epson dealer, and an extremely knowledgeable videophile. He has also heard almost completely different stories from multiple Epson reps, in different markets, so I doubt that their info can be trusted. He finally connected with one rep that has always given him the truth, and, based on everything he has seen and looked into, you are correct about the "fewer presets", and the "shorter warranty, and no second bulb" have always been a given. As for the "different lens" nothing anyone has seen would indicate that being accurate.

John

video_bit_bucket

04-11-07, 01:19 AM

A friend of mine is an Epson dealer, and an extremely knowledgeable videophile. He has also heard almost completely different stories from multiple Epson reps, in different markets, so I doubt that their info can be trusted. He finally connected with one rep that has always given him the truth, and, based on everything he has seen and looked into, you are correct about the "fewer presets", and the "shorter warranty, and no second bulb" have always been a given. As for the "different lens" nothing anyone has seen would indicate that being accurate.

John

Thanks for the response. I could live with just two or three user adjustable presets. Unless the specifications on the Epson Web site are wrong the lens being different seems a stretch since all the specifications seem to be the same.

I am somewhat puzzled why this announcement has not generated a lot of chatter on the board. Unless you just can not calibrate the unit because it has been dumbed down or some other biggie this is significant product news.

The Pro version as reviewed and discussed seems to me to be the next runner up the RS-1 without some of the possible drawbacks. Given that the difference in price it seems to be something worth considering but is getting virtually no thread time.

rolandlim

04-11-07, 01:34 AM

A friend of mine is an Epson dealer, and an extremely knowledgeable videophile. He has also heard almost completely different stories from multiple Epson reps, in different markets, so I doubt that their info can be trusted. He finally connected with one rep that has always given him the truth, and, based on everything he has seen and looked into, you are correct about the "fewer presets", and the "shorter warranty, and no second bulb" have always been a given. As for the "different lens" nothing anyone has seen would indicate that being accurate.

John

Epson is only making one 1080p LCD projector and it is the EMP TW-1000. Both the Powerlite Home Cinema 1080 and the Powerlite Pro Cinema 1080 are just marketing names for the EMP TW-1000 used in North American market.

You can download the Home and Pro Cinema 1080 manual from below to check out the facts:-

http://files.support.epson.com/pdf/plhc1080/plhc1080-ug.pdf
http://files.support.epson.com/pdf/plpc1080/plpc1080ug.pdf

If you go to page 70 of both manauls, you will find that both projectors model name is EMP TW-1000 and the marketing names are Powerlite Home Cinema 1080 and Powerlite Pro Cinema 1080.

jacksonian

04-11-07, 06:17 AM

Sounds a lot like what Pioneer has done with their regular and Elite model plasmas. The Elites offered ISF calibration modes, a couple more menu features and a longer warranty. There was always some "rumor" about an alleged better processor in the Elites, but I don't think anyone ever verified its existence.

Same projector folks, a few "treats" t o try to differentiate it and sell it through their dealers as the professional installers version for $2k more.

rayfes

04-11-07, 08:17 AM

Visual Apex has Power Lite Home Cinema for $3k with free shipping and an extended warranty (to 6 years) so I just took the plunge.

I am little concerned about light output since I have a 133" da-lite screen but I only watch at night so hopefully it'll be ok.

The Epson will be replacing a 3M (Hitachi based) 1024x768 pj which was supposedly 3300 lumens so I am expecting some brightness drop off but a huge increase in picture quality.

I've been watching prices on 1080p projectors for a little while and this seems like an incredible deal.

I've enjoyed reading this thread and appreciate everyone's comments and for keeping the discussion civil.

Thanks!

jacksonian

04-11-07, 08:19 AM

Congrats! :D

Mark Lem

04-11-07, 08:53 AM

A while back it was posted that Projector Reviews (think that's who it was) was going to review both Epson PJ's.

Did that review come out?

TomHuffman

04-11-07, 11:14 AM

I am little concerned about light output since I have a 133" da-lite screenYou should be. This PJ is not bright enough for a screen that size, unless it's a Dalite High Power.

sjh

04-11-07, 11:49 AM

Anyone notice and adverse effects to picture quality using Horz. lense shift. About 30% would be required in the set-up I'm thinking of.

rolandlim

04-11-07, 12:04 PM

You should be. This PJ is not bright enough for a screen that size, unless it's a Dalite High Power.

We have a member here using the TW-1000 with a 134" Carada BW screen. In his experience, it was bright enough to light up his screen.

jacksonian

04-11-07, 12:48 PM

Everybody's taste is subjective on how much is "bright enough". But judging from my 106" HCCV (1.1 gain) screen, I would think that the TW1000 would NOT be bright enough for a screen that size in Theater modes. Just my opinion, but I have to agree with Tom.

FremontRich

04-11-07, 12:58 PM

A while back it was posted that Projector Reviews (think that's who it was) was going to review both Epson PJ's.

Did that review come out?

AFAIK, we're still waiting for Art's report.

rayfes

04-11-07, 01:06 PM

The 133" da-lite pure white screen was free from a friend's bar when they remodeled. It is too large for my viewing distance although it's nice that you can view it clearly from across the loft and outside from the post office across the street. :)

If the Epson isn't bright enough it'll give me a good reason to buy a screen more suitable to my room. That's why I'm not concerned.

The room it's going in has a 20' wall of floor to 11' ceiling windows that have no treatment on them so it's impossible to watch anything unless it's nighttime anyway but mostly gets used for parties. If it's sunny out I can turn on the projector and not see anything on the screen!

I will let you know how it works out. Right now I run the current LCD projector in low-lamp mode and still have a bright picture (at night of course). But it is several years old (600 hours) and has a huge chassis and was meant for corporate stuff although it does have a non-HDCP compliant DVI input.

Thanks for the feedback!

iwanrs

04-11-07, 01:11 PM

We have a member here using the TW-1000 with a 134" Carada BW screen. In his experience, it was bright enough to light up his screen.

Yes, it is bright enough in a light controlled dedicated HT room, plenty of light.

White is really bright white, not yellowish or greyish, just plain bright white.

talkron

04-11-07, 01:44 PM

rayefes:Hi, i ordered one tday too, but it was little bit more pricey here in Europe. After considering Japan, HK and US i ordered from Austria for 3.470$ (with shipping, ...the cheapest price in EU i found). I live in Czech Republic but closer to Vienna (150km)as to Prague. I see having 3 year warranty(and 3 year or 1700hr on the bulb)in Austria as almost the same thing as have it in CR.

talkron

04-11-07, 01:44 PM

jacksonian

04-11-07, 01:57 PM

Jacksonian: Hi,i have the same screen surface as you. Are you not founding it little bit distracting? I see shine and sparkles on it pretty clearly. It is not so terrible with my Hitachi TX100 now, as i sit at least1.5x screen width now, but i want to sit much closer ( preferably 1x the screen width ) at the screen with TW1000 . The "missing" screen door (and better blacks,contrast and shadow detail) and possibility to sit closer at the screen was the main reason for me to upgrade.
You know, the HCCV is the only screen I've ever had, so I never really thought much about it. However, I asked Da-Lite to send me a sample of High Power. I put the square up the other day with my buddy over. I was shocked at how much the HCCV sparkled in comparison, the HCCV also looked very dirty on the whites (something I never would have known without the comparison). But while the high power made whites shockingly white and brighter, it also raised the black level A LOT I put the sample square bridging the black border of a 2.35 aspect film. It turned the black bar into a gray bar. The difference was as much or more than going from the TW700 to the TW1000, meaning that it took the blacks of my TW1000 and turned them into the grays of the TW700.

I'd love to find a screen that had more brightness, maintained the whites, but didn't raise the black level so much. I ordered a sample of StudioTek130 from Stewart yesterday.

leckian

04-11-07, 02:37 PM

You know, the HCCV is the only screen I've ever had, so I never really thought much about it. However, I asked Da-Lite to send me a sample of High Power. I put the square up the other day with my buddy over. I was shocked at how much the HCCV sparkled in comparison, the HCCV also looked very dirty on the whites (something I never would have known without the comparison). But while the high power made whites shockingly white and brighter, it also raised the black level A LOT I put the sample square bridging the black border of a 2.35 aspect film. It turned the black bar into a gray bar. The difference was as much or more than going from the TW700 to the TW1000, meaning that it took the blacks of my TW1000 and turned them into the grays of the TW700.

I'd love to find a screen that had more brightness, maintained the whites, but didn't raise the black level so much. I ordered a sample of StudioTek130 from Stewart yesterday.

Did you recalibrate the projector for the High Power fabric--if not it is not really a fair or valid comparison.

talkron

04-11-07, 02:40 PM

Yes i too saw how dirty the whites are, when i had a big peace of cheep reflexive white screen here get it from one pj seller for testing, they use it on some professional installations), but this not only raised the blacks, but had ugly hot spotting too. But the colors looked much, much better as on the HCCV. I have still a matte white Da-Mat surface in my cellar, i probably try it with TW1000, but it made the blacks on Hitachi TX100 light grey(not even dark gray). I probably would sacrifice the best blacks for more cinema like neutral image ( i simply need a screen that nod remaind me of its own existence, but contains good blacks ). I considered to try sell the Da-lite screen and try Carada BW, but not shore how the blacks look on it, at least it would have great whites. Speaking of Whites, you see no color uniformity problems with you TW1000? I get pretty scared when 2 guys reported them at the UK AVforum. Still, in the worst case, i have 14 days to return the pj if i don't want to keep it...

jacksonian

04-11-07, 04:00 PM

Did you recalibrate the projector for the High Power fabric--if not it is not really a fair or valid comparison.
How am I going to lower the black level with the calibration?

leckian

04-11-07, 05:05 PM

How am I going to lower the black level with the calibration?

Your projector is currently calibrated to look best with your current screen surface--you can raise and lower your black levels with the picture controls and the different modes your projector provides. In order to determine the potential of a different screen surface it is absolutely essential that the projector be recalibrated.

sethk

04-11-07, 06:14 PM

Jacksonian - are you using the highest contrast / lowest brightness mode of the TW1000? If so the only other two ways to lower the black levels would be to increase your screen size and / or use a ND filter.

Actual on / off contrast is usually better with a gain screen because of the improved rejection of side light, but you can't see this unless the whole screen is a gain screen (i.e. not visible with just small square sample.)

jacksonian

04-11-07, 06:36 PM

Your projector is currently calibrated to look best with your current screen surface--you can raise and lower your black levels with the picture controls and the different modes your projector provides. In order to determine the potential of a different screen surface it is absolutely essential that the projector be recalibrated.
As Seth said, I'm already using the highest contrast, lowest lumen setting, there's no way to lower that black level any further. There's no doubt that the HiPower raises the black level A LOT, you can't calibrate that away.

Joe_Black

04-11-07, 06:55 PM

IMHO Jacksonian is completely correct. I got a 110" manual Mod C HP here a few weeks ago to see what all the fuss was about. It's definitely bright, but the blacks go grey no matter how much you reduce the brightness setting. It's just a function of the screen, you can't get the gain and brightness of it's whites without sacrificing the blacks.

Perceived blacks on the HP are ok, because the whites are that much brighter in contrast. Problem is in the dark scenes like space you really notice the grey blacks. Try projecting a full screen 0IRE (black) onto a HP in a completely dark room. It's not black.

The HP can be a great screen for the right application in the right setup for some people and it can be had cheap relative to some other screens, but it's not the magic pill some make it out to be.

leckian

04-11-07, 07:39 PM

As Seth said, I'm already using the highest contrast, lowest lumen setting, there's no way to lower that black level any further. There's no doubt that the HiPower raises the black level A LOT, you can't calibrate that away.

You still have brightness/contrast controls and advanced settings. My point however is more generic--you cannot take a well tweaked projector with a particular screen and then plop a sample of another material--do nothing to your projector and think you know which material is better.

jacksonian

04-11-07, 11:01 PM

You still have brightness/contrast controls and advanced settings. My point however is more generic--you cannot take a well tweaked projector with a particular screen and then plop a sample of another material--do nothing to your projector and think you know which material is better.
Regardless of what settings you adjust, the RELATIVE difference in black levels between those screens will remain the same. Even with the gray screen, blacks still aren't black. So it's not like there is any tweak head room to adjust with the HiPower screen because even the gray screen can't get there. So the HP is going to have higher black levels, no matter how you slice it.

John Clark

04-11-07, 11:40 PM

You should be. This PJ is not bright enough for a screen that size, unless it's a Dalite High Power.

Tom,

Do you feel this projector and a 110 inch Dalite HP would be a good combination in terms of brightness? Thanks.

JC

leckian

04-11-07, 11:56 PM

Regardless of what settings you adjust, the RELATIVE difference in black levels between those screens will remain the same. Even with the gray screen, blacks still aren't black. So it's not like there is any tweak head room to adjust with the HiPower screen because even the gray screen can't get there. So the HP is going to have higher black levels, no matter how you slice it.

That would assume a relatively linear response with all screens and that just is not true.

jo-1

04-12-07, 01:42 AM

Dear all,

I don't know if somebody already posted the brightness (meassured at his unit) here because I was bussy watching HD content over the >>easter weekend<< and did not follow the discussion here :D

But afer reading a lot in forums about the qualities of my new "toy" I was worried about the absolute brigthness and ordered a precition light meassuring device.

The good news: 330 Lumen with theater black 2 low mode in D65 calibrated with a lamp live of roughly 50 h!!

In high mode with the same settings the TW1000 throws some 420 Lumen in my unit.

Maximum light output is in dynamic high mode is 960 Lumen.

I use a 113" screen with gain 1.3 => some 13 Footlambert. Not bad for a 3LCD :)

This might help some of you for your personal ordering process.

BTW: The JVC is in low mode roughly as loud as the EPSON in High mode

Milimetr

04-12-07, 07:19 AM

Great Review of Epson on Audioholic site:
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/projectors/epson-pro-cinema-1080

Mark Lem

04-12-07, 10:51 AM

Sounds great, wish they would have compared it to some of the other hot new PJ's (RS1 for example)

talkron

04-12-07, 10:59 AM

TomHuffman

04-12-07, 12:46 PM

We have a member here using the TW-1000 with a 134" Carada BW screen. In his experience, it was bright enough to light up his screen.For a screen of that size and gain (and I'll bet the actual gain is less than what's advertised), you'd need 500 lumens to get the SMPTE-recommended 12 Foot Lamberts. Post calibration, this PJ gives only a little over 300 lumens, and this will degrade considerably in the first 500 hrs. of use.

TomHuffman

04-12-07, 12:50 PM

Tom,

Do you feel this projector and a 110 inch Dalite HP would be a good combination in terms of brightness? Thanks.Yes, but remember that in order to get value from the High Power, you must sit within a relatively narrow viewing cone. Usually, this means a shelf mount where your head is only slightly below the lens. Ceiling mounts won't work as well.

jo-1

04-12-07, 02:00 PM

jo-1:Hi, great to see you here, i read all you postings on areaDVD.de and beissamen.de, i hope my experience with TW100 will be as positive as yours. One thing i don´t remember if you ever mentioned: what screen use you with TW1000?

Hi talkron,

I use a motorized 113 " tension screen from a Luxemburg online dealer with gain 1.3 mate white (2,5 m x 1,41 m)

I would say that the TW1000 is currently the projector with the best price/value ratio.

Having said that - everybody has a slightly different mindste and ranking system.

For me it's important to keep some money left for other interests but to have a >>state of the art<< projector that is somehow future proof for at lesast some years. I might keep the TW1000 for some 3 to 5 years before starting to think of an adequate replacement.

By then some really big improvements will have happend. The next big step will probably be LEDs as light source!?

With today's technology the EPSON seems to be a no brainer in terms of over all performance.

Hope my postings helped in your ranking process :)

kgshaw

04-12-07, 06:55 PM

How does one enter the service menu?

I am having trouble getting the projector to turn on using RS-232 commands. It turns off, and changes inputs just fine, but will not turn on from standby mode.

I was hoping there was something in the service menu.

kgs

mooneycj

04-12-07, 09:03 PM

Has anyone tried a 2:35 setup with the Epson 1080 projector? I have a 45" x 80" (16:9) screen and watching Blu-Ray discs in a "letterbox" is annoying. The projector has enough resolution, lamp brightness, zoom and lens shift to "blow up" the letterbox to the 45" height of my screen. Of course, now the sides of the picture are outside the screen, but could be accomodated with a larger 2:35 setup (ie 45" tall, about 106" wide). I was surprised how good this looks despite not using all of the projectors resolution (ie not using a scaler and anamorphic lens). This "poor mans" 2:35 setup might be fun and not very expensive (just need a 2:35 screen). What do you think.

mooneycj

cathor

04-12-07, 10:19 PM

How does one enter the service menu?

To the best of my knowledge it's not known at this point of time.

jacksonian

04-12-07, 10:22 PM

Yes, but remember that in order to get value from the High Power, you must sit within a relatively narrow viewing cone. Usually, this means a shelf mount where your head is only slightly below the lens. Ceiling mounts won't work as well.
And to reinforce what Tom's saying, I tried the HP samples with my pj ceiling mounted and me sitting on my couch (the pj is even with the top of the screen, my eye level is at the bottom 1/3rd of the screen) and the HP looked DIMMER than my HCCV! I measured how high I had to stand to get the increase in brightness. I was 14 feet from the 106" screen. Basically, my head had to be within about 2-3' of the level of the pj to get the gain. So unless you can shelf mount the pj within about 2-3 feet of your main viewing height, it doesn't work.

JaniH

04-13-07, 06:58 AM

In case somebody didn't notice, Art posted his review at Projectorreviews (http://www.projectorreviews.com/epson/HomeProCinema1080/index.asp) (the cheaper US version).

davedelite

04-13-07, 10:16 AM

BTW: The JVC is in low mode roughly as loud as the EPSON in High mode

jo-1, I presume you are referencing that JVC DLA-RS1. Am I correct? Are your sound comparisons side by side test?

talkron

04-13-07, 01:27 PM

jo-1:yes, they definitely did :), you are one from the really small bunch of guys, that are happy with they pj and still posting a lot about it . When my pj comes(and finger crossed is ok) i probably take a week off only to watch movies and not by bothered by anything else. For now at lest on dvd, still not decided what source of real HD material to chose, i can get sony blue rays(only HD disks released in Czech Rep.) lend for free for testing, but all the players are still for most parts a "work in progress" and actually they are or will be in near future 3x time more movies(and tv shows like Heroes or Galactica) i want on HD-DVD(internationly) as on BD. I found very interesting what you said on the german fores about Premiere HD ( movies in English, 10 EUR a month ...but they probably have licenses only for the german space). As for the screen, i choose the Da-lite screen with HCCV after the glowing review it get on projectorcentral.com, but their forget to mention sparkles and the sheen of the surface. A decent Matte White surface is ma ideal, i liked the MW surface that da-lite uses on their pull down screen, but it cant be tensioned and their Da-mat(i have home too) has in comparison rather poor blacks and contrast :-(

Joe_Black

04-13-07, 04:23 PM

I read Art's review at PR on the Epson 1080 (TW1000). Sounds quite positive. Glad he compared it to the RS1 somewhat. Didn't expect the Epson to keep up with the RS1's black levels and CR. But according to him it was the best out of the LCD 1080's. I was surprised by his lumen numbers on the Epson, much higher than I expected.

I'm still tempted by the RS1 tho, but considerably more money than the Epson.
Ahhh choices :)

rlindo

04-13-07, 05:21 PM

Jacksonian,

So are you going to get the RS1 now after reading Art's review at PJ Reviews since he was able to compare both side by side?

Anyway, a very positive review and as expected, it sounds like the Epson is at the top of the LCD units.

TomHuffman

04-13-07, 06:12 PM

I was surprised by his lumen numbers on the Epson, much higher than I expected.One of 2 things is true.

1) The Epson's bulb degrades VERY quickly from new to 120 hours of use.
or
2) There is an enormous amount of unit-to-unit variation.

The TW1000 I looked at put out only a little over 300 post-calibration lumens in the Theater Black 1 mode.

Joe_Black

04-13-07, 06:51 PM

One of 2 things is true.

1) The Epson's bulb degrades VERY quickly from new to 120 hours of use.
or
2) There is an enormous amount of unit-to-unit variation.

The TW1000 I looked at put out only a little over 300 post-calibration lumens in the Theater Black 1 mode.

Tom, some interesting thoughts, but could be some other reasons as well.

I don't know on the TW1000, but for example on the TW700/810 the iris modulates the lamp. If it's set to off, the amount of lumens in any given picture mode drops considerably in both low and high lamp modes. To get the brightest output the iris had to be set to on. Seems counter-intuitive but it works that way.

Is it possible when you took your readings that the iris on the 1000 was off ?

davedelite

04-13-07, 08:37 PM

Also, keep in mind that in Art's review he admitted to having the Epson Home Cinema at less than 20% of the zoom in use, i.e. much more open then he has had on some other units in for review. The biggest thing that drives me batty with these reviewers is their lack of consistency (or at least stated clarity) around what distance from the screen the unit was during measurement. Art does one of the best reviews out there, but even he does not lay this detail down in a "configuration of review" for example. He explicitly states in this review that the measurements are at less than 20% of the zoom range, for the Pro Cinema 810 it was at midpoint, for the RS1 and HC5000BL there is absolutely no mention. Given the impact of zoom range on brightness (esp. for 1.6 or 2x zooms) this is just meat and potatos critical information to form a comparison.

With that said, I have made a spread sheet with the comparison of the "normalized" lumens for these projectors. I have done my best to take all data in Art's reviews to come up with a logical "shootout" of brightness between the 810, 1080, HC5000, and RS1. (I standardized on Art because he gives the greatest number of readings in diff modes and while not consistent enough, is still the most consistent from review to review on how he reports this) The chart is attached herein. Note that the 810 is at midpoint, the original 1080 numbers are at less than 20%, I have then adjusted them to a midpoint to comparison to the 810 to see the impact of D6 vs. D5 with the same Epson lamp. But, if you want to compare the 1080's (HC5000, RS1 and 1080) then it is likely best to use the original numbers in the first columns and assume Art placed the projectors at the same distance from the screen for his reviews, hence, the same distance that the Home Cinema 1080 was presumptively at when he detected it was less than 20% zoomed for his chosen screen size when the measurement was taken.

While I tend to use TB1 or TB2 for movies on my EMP-tw700 and Living Room for sports and broadcast HDTV, I am keen to make sure I don't lose brightness if I move to a 1080 pj for both uses (i.e. movies and sports). What this table tells me is that you don't lose much at all going to D6 from D5, at least with the Epson design in both cases. It also tells me that you can safely buy an RS1 and end up with 2x the brightness for movie viewing in D65 calibrated mode with all that great contrast and impact of pure blacks (provided decent screen and environment) and still be equal brightness to the Epson's for sports or broadcast HDTV if you never used "dynamic" or "Vivid" modes anyway (which I do not since they are so out of whack...i.e. Living Room or Cinema Day is the mode I use when I have some ambient light). That is, the highest mode in the RS1 which I believe I read is referred to as "dynamic" is same light output of the Living Room mode of the tw1000, the highest output mode I have ever used. Hence, all that "headroom" of the Epson is useless to me if it comes "above and beyond" the Living Room or Dynamic modes. And, I bet if and when I get the RS1 I will have a better or equivalent picture in its highest output as compared to the Epson at Living Room or Dynamic. Now, if someone were to find a good claim that the RS1 in its brightest mode was inferior to the Epson in its 2nd highest mode, then I would worry about a trade-off of losing pq in ambient lit sports and broadcast TV uses to get the dark room movie performance of the RS1, but that does not appear to be the case at all unless for some reason you need to actually go above 800 lumens and use the crappy greenish/overdriven "Dynamic/Vivid" modes on the Epsons.

TomHuffman

04-13-07, 09:41 PM

Tom, some interesting thoughts, but could be some other reasons as well.

I don't know on the TW1000, but for example on the TW700/810 the iris modulates the lamp. If it's set to off, the amount of lumens in any given picture mode drops considerably in both low and high lamp modes. To get the brightest output the iris had to be set to on. Seems counter-intuitive but it works that way.

Is it possible when you took your readings that the iris on the 1000 was off ?As a matter of fact it was, but I don't think the TW1000 behaves this way. I turned on the iris for contrast measurements and I didn't notice any dramatic increase in brightness, though I wouldn't rule it out.

jacksonian

04-13-07, 09:53 PM

Jacksonian,

So are you going to get the RS1 now after reading Art's review at PJ Reviews since he was able to compare both side by side?
I'm torn. The Epson's iris is too noisy for me (I'm noise sensitive), so that changes the blacks/contrast a bit. I'm really tempted by the RS1. It hasn't been too much of an issue since they're so hard to get. But I'm looking at options right now.

Warbie

04-13-07, 09:58 PM

SbWillie

04-14-07, 03:51 PM

Can anyone confirm whether or not hivizone are an authorized dealer for Epson HKyes they are......

cathor

04-15-07, 05:24 PM

A couple of weeks ago Tom Huffman offered to calibrate a TW1000 for free, if he in exchange could get to spend some time with the projector to test its advanced calibration features. I took him up on the offer.

Tom is a great guy with a lot of knowledge about AV equipment and the industry. I really enjoyed talking with him - as a matter of fact I ended up being quite late for a family lunch as I got caught up in our conversation. Oh well...

After spending some time with the calibrated unit, I have to say that I'm very pleased. I've seen some people state that "once you get used to accurate color it's hard to go back" and I would have to agree. The sunburn just doesn't look so good anymore...

I don't want to create the illusion that suddenly the projector is twice as good. It's not, but I found the calibration to be a very worthy upgrade even if I had to pay for it.

If there's downside to the whole experience it would be that Tom got me thinking really hard about upgrading my speakers so the "free calibration" has turned into a $2k upgrade. I guess some would see that as upside.

Thanks again Tom.

John Clark

04-15-07, 11:41 PM

Joe_Black

04-16-07, 12:05 AM

There's a very quick and easy way to know for certain if the iris on the TW1000 modulates the lamp, which I think it does.

Can anyone with the TW1000 put up a full screen 100IRE (white), go into the menu and turn the iris off and on. See if there's any change in brightness.

kwokyan

04-16-07, 12:14 AM

Aircooled

04-16-07, 08:27 AM

I believe that both of these are out of the projector business at the moment. On another note, can anyone who had a unit shipped from HK let me know what additional costs you incurred? Shipping? Import duties? Thanks.

Edit: Actually Superfly now has a business that is referenced on Projector Central - something about "he who dies with the most toys".

jacksonian

04-16-07, 07:59 PM

DieWithTheMostToys

FGEvans

04-17-07, 09:30 AM

Can anyone confirm whether or not hivizone are an authorized dealer for Epson HK? Some posts have suggested so, but I can't see a mention on the Epson website. Basically, im on the verge of importing a TW1000 to the UK and just need a little more convincing before parting with the cash.

Any impressions from people who have dealt with hivizone would also be much appreciated :)

I was lucky enough to visit Chan at hivizone when i went to HK. He was a great guy, very young really and he seems to be a one man operation. His office was a dedicated cinema room and when i went there he was very accomodating. He had bought some extra thick bubble wrap just for me as i was unable to fit the projector in its box into my luggage. In fact i would go so far as saying that he provided me with the best customer support i have ever had. kept me informed on a nearly daily basis as to what was happening with my projector. i originally had intended getting an epson TW1000 however when i was in Hk they were in short supply. He was able to provide me with a demo of the panasonic and on the basis of another demo i had of the Ae1000 and the epson i actually went home with the AE1000 - the sd performance of the panny won me over, far superior to the epson, HD sources looked identical.

i would therefore recomend chan and hivizone.

jdskycaster

04-17-07, 03:42 PM

I had an interesting experience today demoing the Pro1080 (TW1000). I was able to view SD DVD as well as HD sat and HD DVD content. The Pro1080 looked fantastic. I really preferred the image of the Pro1080 over the Panasonic AE1000 for all sources including SD and HD.

Besides the AE1000 I was also able to demo the AX100 side by side with the Pro1080 and I personally preferred the AX100 for all SD sources and the HD sat sources. The Pro1080 was better only with HD DVD content for me. Since I have a ton of SD content and continue to source SD DVD content for the majority of my HT viewing I am really leaning toward the Panny AX100 for half the price of the TW1000 for now. I have basically determined that for me I just prefer more lumens over everything else at this point. I think the reason I really liked the Pro1080 over the Panny AE1000 was due to this factor. It flat out had a brighter image with good CR and lots of detail. The Panny looked washed out. Now this was not the case with the AX100 that I demoed. It looked sharper than the AE1000 for SD DVD and HD sat images which blew me away.

I know calibration and general setup factors could change these results but in an out of box side by side these were my observations. I may just wait until we can get more lumens in a 1080 for the same price as the current TW1000. I have to say if I were going to purchase a 1080p unit today I would have gone with the Epson Pro1080/TW1000.

JD

davedelite

04-17-07, 03:57 PM

I had an interesting experience today demoing the Pro810 (TW1000). I was able to view SD DVD as well as HD sat and HD DVD content. The Pro810 looked fantastic. I really preferred the image of the Pro810 over the Panasonic AE1000 for all sources including SD and HD.

Besides the AE1000 I was also able to demo the AX100 side by side with the Pro810 and I personally preferred the AX100 for all SD sources and the HD sat sources. The Pro810 was better only with HD DVD content for me. Since I have a ton of SD content and continue to source SD DVD content for the majority of my HT viewing I am really leaning toward the Panny AX100 for half the price of the TW1000 for now. I have basically determined that for me I just prefer more lumens over everything else at this point. I think the reason I really liked the Pro810 over the Panny AE1000 was due to this factor. It flat out had a brighter image with good CR and lots of detail. The Panny looked washed out. Now this was not the case with the AX100 that I demoed. It looked sharper than the AE1000 for SD DVD and HD sat images which blew me away.

I know calibration and general setup factors could change these results but in an out of box side by side these were my observations. I may just wait until we can get more lumens in a 1080 for the same price as the current TW1000. I have to say if I were going to purchase a 1080p unit today I would have gone with the Epson Pro810/TW1000.

JD

This entire passage is very confusing because you are mistaking the model number(s) of the Epsons. This causes one to wonder if there other mistakes also? Please realize that the Pro Cinema 810 is NOT the same pj as the 1000. The Pro Cinema 810 is equivalent to the EMP-tw700 and these are 720p projectors. The Pro Cinema 1080 and Home Cinema 1080 are equivalent to the EMP-tw1000 and these are 1080p projectors. With that in mind, please correct your post.

jdskycaster

04-17-07, 04:06 PM

This entire passage is very confusing because you are mistaking the model number(s) of the Epsons. This causes one to wonder if there other mistakes also? Please realize that the Pro Cinema 810 is NOT the same pj as the 1000. The Pro Cinema 810 is equivalent to the EMP-tw700 and these are 720p projectors. The Pro Cinema 1080 and Home Cinema 1080 are equivalent to the EMP-tw1000 and these are 1080p projectors. With that in mind, please correct your post.

Dave,
Thanks for the correction. I posted this quickly as I was running out the door. I have edited it to reflect the proper model number. It indeed was the Pro1080. I also wanted to do a side by side of the AX100 and the Pro810 but it was not available.

Regards,

JD

TorontoR

04-17-07, 05:06 PM

Thanks Superfly77 for a smooth transaction. Fired her up yesterday.

first picture when I turned the HTPC on to play some HD-DVD movies, was stunned when I saw the sharpness of the desktop (set to 1920x1080). This is with zero calibration, straight out of the box plug and play. Picture taken from 5 feet away at a 45 degree angle from the screen. Projected on a cheap Draper Luma 106 inch screen from about 14 feet away.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c28/TorontoR/DSC_0507smaller.jpg

cpc

04-17-07, 05:57 PM

talkron

04-19-07, 01:24 PM

can somebody with the TW1000 with tweaked colorspace place his settings here please?( i know they are variations pj to pj, but still...on the french forum they did measurements of an untweaked TW1000 and get completly the same results like cine4home did, at least when it comes to colorspace)

HiHoStevo

04-20-07, 02:42 AM

skadollax

04-21-07, 08:52 PM

There are no dust blobs on the replacement PJ. The dust blobs on my current Epson started to show up AFTER I rejected the replacement for having focus and alignment issues. My CURRENT Benq PE7700 is fine (apart from the fan failing) and I have had that for over a year now. The BenQ is being fixed as we speak.

I swapped my Pana ax100 for an Epson TW700 due to build problems and crappy post sales support from Panasonic.

However, within the first 10 hours of use on my Epson TW700 I noticed a white blob, I defocussed the lense and found a mirriad of dust scattered throughout...?

You only notice it as dust when you defocus the picture, when it is in focus the dust looks like a blob. It all depends on the size of the dust, most dust particles don't create blobs.

I took the unit back and had it cleaned, within 5 hours the dust was back and I had another dust blob.

Epson then kindly gave me a replacement. The replacement did the same thing.

I took it back, they checked both units and then I asked them to pull out their demo unit. This unit only had 100-200 hours on the globe and boy were they surprised to see how much more dust was caught up in their machine.

They have now confirmed that this is an inherent problem with the TW700 and have offered some freebies to sort me out or an upgrade to the TW1000 but for a price.

I am not happy with the dust issue and was worried that after paying extra dollars for the TW1000 that the same problem might exist, now I know it does I don't think I will be upgrading....

Now before everyone claims this is crap may I just say that on the second visit to Epson they claimed I was not being honest.

We all then sat around in the repair centre while I turned all 3 units on and ran through a list of problems ranging from dust, dust blobs, light leakage, etc...

Most of the problems are not visible when the iris is on and in cinema colour modes. It also requires a keen eye to notice it, in some ways I didn't want to post this as I was concerned people unaware would become aware...

Make sure there is an active input
Turn the auto iris off.
Set the colour mode to Living room.
Defocuss the picture until the dust in your unit is in focus.
Then hit blank\black on the remote

Voila....

On every Tw700 we looked at we found dust and on all three enough to show visible blobs. In living room and dynamic the epson leaked light very badly (auto iris off).
On one unit it even leaked light in the form of a solid circle betwen the centre and bottom right of the screen (it was not a dust blob).

The biggest problem I have with all of this is that they have dust when new out of the box and in 1 year only god knows how much dust they will accumulate and how many more dust blobs will be visible.

I know the sanyo Z5 has what they call a hurrican dust blob blower. You insert it into the unit and you blow away the dust. I read they are the only manufacture to have this product. It looks like Epson need something like this....

PS. As the TW700 (810) is a brighter PJ the problem is most likely a little more noticeable over the TW1000 or PRo 1080...

jdskycaster

04-21-07, 11:39 PM

I swapped my Pana ax100 for an Epson TW700 due to build problems and crappy post sales support from Panasonic.

However, within the first 10 hours of use on my Epson TW700 I noticed a white blob, I defocussed the lense and found a mirriad of dust scattered throughout...?

You only notice it as dust when you defocus the picture, when it is in focus the dust looks like a blob. It all depends on the size of the dust, most dust particles don't create blobs.

I took the unit back and had it cleaned, within 5 hours the dust was back and I had another dust blob.

Epson then kindly gave me a replacement. The replacement did the same thing.

I took it back, they checked both units and then I asked them to pull out their demo unit. This unit only had 100-200 hours on the globe and boy were they surprised to see how much more dust was caught up in their machine.

They have now confirmed that this is an inherent problem with the TW700 and have offered some freebies to sort me out or an upgrade to the TW1000 but for a price.

I am not happy with the dust issue and was worried that after paying extra dollars for the TW1000 that the same problem might exist, now I know it does I don't think I will be upgrading....

Now before everyone claims this is crap may I just say that on the second visit to Epson they claimed I was not being honest.

We all then sat around in the repair centre while I turned all 3 units on and ran through a list of problems ranging from dust, dust blobs, light leakage, etc...

Most of the problems are not visible when the iris is on and in cinema colour modes. It also requires a keen eye to notice it, in some ways I didn't want to post this as I was concerned people unaware would become aware...

Make sure there is an active input
Turn the auto iris off.
Set the colour mode to Living room.
Defocuss the picture until the dust in your unit is in focus.
Then hit blank\black on the remote

Voila....

On every Tw700 we looked at we found dust and on all three enough to show visible blobs. In living room and dynamic the epson leaked light very badly (auto iris off).
On one unit it even leaked light in the form of a solid circle betwen the centre and bottom right of the screen (it was not a dust blob).

The biggest problem I have with all of this is that they have dust when new out of the box and in 1 year only god knows how much dust they will accumulate and how many more dust blobs will be visible.

I know the sanyo Z5 has what they call a hurrican dust blob blower. You insert it into the unit and you blow away the dust. I read they are the only manufacture to have this product. It looks like Epson need something like this....

PS. As the TW700 (810) is a brighter PJ the problem is most likely a little more noticeable over the TW1000 or PRo 1080...

Epson is not the only manuf. with dust blobs. Read other threads such as the Mitsubishi 5000 and you will see that it is an issue with other PJ's also.

JD

skadollax

04-22-07, 06:58 AM

I mentioned in my post the sanyo has the same problem, I know it's not the only one with this problem...

But within the first 8 hours of usage, that's not acceptable.

Checkout Sanyo's solution to the problem (half way down the page - hurricane blower)

http://www.cine4home.com/reviews/projectors/SanyoZ4/Z4Review.htm

It's not prevention but at least they have a cure...

ChrisW6ATV

04-22-07, 10:38 PM

Chris, I got exactly 92 inches from 9 feet.
I received my Home Cinema 1080 on Friday, and it does indeed fill my 92" screen just fine. This projector is fantastic. Thank you again for your help and reviews.

rayfes

04-28-07, 12:32 PM

Got my Home Cinema 1080 last night and did a quick setup after happy hour. Set it to theater black 1, 6500 color temp, slight adjustments to brightness, contrast, color, and tint based on some DVR'd HD test patterns and a blue filter. Also set output scaling to 100%.

First impressions are positive:
-was somewhat concerned about light output after reading some posts here, I am using white Da-Lite 133" screen and a 20' throw distance. Brightness at night was fine. Plenty punchy although I wouldn't want it less bright

-it's cloudy today but daytime viewing was better than expected (i.e. actually watchable) with the brightest mode. The room has over 30' of 11' high windows so there's a lot of light that comes in, no window treatments. I won't be using it much during the day anyway but it's nice to know that I can in a pinch.

-no visible SDE from the too-close seating distance of 7'

-slight misconvergence of panels, 1 pixel or less in some areas, only noticeable right at the screen

-increased resolution was significant but not as much I as I expected in going from a 1024x768 pj to 1920x1080, but I see more flaws in my screen now. It came for free from a friend's bar so it has some slight creases and other imperfections (like a d#!n footpint!). It's time to get a new screen.

-much quieter than my previous pj, I do have mounted on a high rear shelf well behind the seating so that helps, I do hear the iris working which I don't like

-remote control is great and I like how the adjustment menus stay upfor a very long time and are very small

-have not tried programming my harmony 880 remote yet to see if I problems like another poster did

-wish it had more inputs, my cable box and upconverting DVD player both have HDMI outputs, right now the DVD player is on component

-when using 100% output scaling I see that I have 0 overscan on the left, top, and right but don't see 2% on the bottom. No biggie but strange to me. Also, sometimes there are faint lines on the left and right from the source. I don't see it on test patterns or most content but it is annoying when it shows up. May try adjusting things to get that line to fall on the screen border or something.

-I only used a slight amount of lens shift to lower the image

-for some reason my cable box DVR will not output HDMI and component at the same time, when I connected HDMI the component out stopped working but thankfully the coax digital out still works

-I see a bigger difference between DVD and real HD now

Overall I'd say this upgrade was worth $3k. I'm not going to tell visitors that I have a new pj and see if they notice.

AVS Forum has been an invaluable source of information for.

Thanks,

iwanrs

04-29-07, 09:18 AM

Rayfes,

Congrate! :)

Glad to know you're happy with Epson.

Can you share your personal setting (brightness, contrast, color etc.) with us?

ellisr63

04-30-07, 12:45 AM

DieWithTheMostToys
Can anyone confirm that the warranty is valid in the USA from Epson if I purchase from DieWithTheMostToys?
tia,
Ron

dizwip

04-30-07, 02:26 AM

I can not answer your warranty question on Dies With The Most Toys but I took a look at his 1080 pro projector on ebay. He made it sure to mention that it retails for 5k in the US but made no mention of the spare bulb and mount which it comes with. I emailed him twice during the auction regarding the spare bulb and mount, simply inquiring if it came with them or not. No response. I have 100% feedback on ebay with 145 transactions and the PJ did not sell so I am not sure why they would not have bothered to respond.

They have a website, which seems legitimate enough but that was my experience with them.

Dino

ellisr63

04-30-07, 10:57 AM

Interesting thing.... My wife called Epson of China and they said that the model wasn't released yet and to be careful as their are alot of counterfeit models out there where they are just rebadging a different model. I decided to go with the home version from PP just to be safe.

kwokyan

04-30-07, 11:03 AM

Hi, ellisr63,

It has not been released in mainland China!? It is released in Hong Kong for a couple of months (the distributors in mainland China and Hong Kong are different). I think it is safe to buy the TW1000 from Hong Kong as I read that many guys on this forum got one and there was no problem at all.

rayfes

04-30-07, 03:12 PM

I ended up with these settings for theatre black 1:

brightness -11
contrast 4
color sat 0
tint 0
sharpness std, -1
color temp 6500
skin tone 3
auto iris on

Tried modifying "dynamic" to get the best daytime results:
brightness 9
contrast -3
color sat 5
tint -3
skin tone 4

I have had some minor issues getting it to work with the Harmony 880 remote. It did not have the Powerlite Home Cinema 1080 as a choice but told me to pick the closest one which was the same name but a different number (400?)

I had manually teach it some commands, like the ones for direct input selection.

Seems to work fine now but the harmony does not power it off completely. The screen gets extremely dark and no picture is shown but I can see that the bulb is still on. Hitting the power button again on the original remote turns it off. I will try fixing that later, the Harmony does support multiple commands when turning something off.

I still get 2% overscan on the bottom with the hdmi input and 100% output scaling

Could not get my Dell D410 laptop to drive it at 1920x1080 through the VGA cable. Lower resolutions mostly worked but the proper resolution resulted in only part of the screen showing up. Not sure if the problem with the PJ or the laptop.

The original remote has some insane range. I can almost point it out the door completely away from the PJ and still have it work!

John Clark

05-06-07, 03:02 PM

Patrick J

05-08-07, 03:36 PM

Hi!

Has anyone succeded feeding the TW1000 1080p24 from a HTPC? I'm using a Geforce 7950GT and just can't get it working (tried both powerstrip and the Nividia controlpanel); any suggestions?

exm

05-08-07, 03:49 PM

Overall I'd say this upgrade was worth $3k. I'm not going to tell visitors that I have a new pj and see if they notice.

Which projector did you upgrade from? I have a Panny AE900 and am considering upgrading to either the Epson 1080p or Pana 1080p.

stopdog

05-08-07, 11:37 PM

There hasn't been much discussion in the Screens section about the best options for the Epson 1080P projectors. The Cinema Home is one of the two finalists I am deciding between to purchase.

What screens are you using? What do you recommend? Best bang for the buck? After buying the projector, I won't have a large budget, so expensive options are out. Thanks.

John

I'm going with the XFS Blackflame laminate screen in 50"x120" 2.40 for CIH, also have the UH380 lens. It will be curved wrap around style. I will have one row of three curved HT recliners at about 9.5-10 feet, so kind of a Mini-Imax. It will be fun to try and not very expensive. We'll see how it turns out, I don't have it yet.

TomHuffman

05-09-07, 01:26 AM

Tom could you have calibrated the Living Room and Dynamic modes such that you would have been able to preserve a lot of the lumen output and still have acceptable color?No, those modes simply don't allow accurate color. It's a tradeoff.

jhbodle

05-09-07, 05:22 PM

exm

05-09-07, 06:00 PM

Keep posting your settings everyone, especially if you have calibrated the projector! I am finding them very useful on my TW1000 as I am desperately trying to tweak the image. I'm not entirely happy with my upgrade from my old Panasonic AE900 yet...

So you went from the Panny AE900 to the Epson EMP-TW1000 1080p? That is the upgrade I am considering. Is it worthwhile or shall I wait for the next year models?

QuadESL63

05-09-07, 09:40 PM

Hey! A noob question: I just been to projectorpeople.com and there are two SKUs:

(1) Epson Pro Cinema 1080 $4999; with spare lamp + ceiling mount

(2) Epson Home Cinema 1080 $2999

They both look like EMP-TW1000 to me and it sounds like the $2999 is the no brainer... so what are the real differences? TIA!

rswelter

05-10-07, 01:25 AM

can anyone hear the iris moving during a movie? I have only heard it when changing modes so far?
I have only auditioned the epson a few times.

Dimitris

05-10-07, 02:14 AM

As part of my review I deliberately tried material with varying contrast and I could hear the iris move (as well as see its effect on screen).

acesea

05-10-07, 03:31 AM

Just as an fyi, I just received a brand new fully operational pro model from the 'diewiththemosttoys' ebayer. Shipped from hong kong- everything came in fine. To clarify, it did not come with ceiling mount or the extra bulb. This seems to be specific to the US market only. And I have not tested my warranty yet.
I would have bought the home version stateside but the black pro model looks fantastic ;)

rswelter

05-10-07, 12:23 PM

As part of my review I deliberately tried material with varying contrast and I could hear the iris move (as well as see its effect on screen).

thanks for responding.

looks like I will be revisiting the Pearl with its flaws or the JVC if the budget can handle it?

why cant they get the lCD right? or am I too picky?

Epson: noisy iris
Mits: visible iris
Panny: fan too noisy when mounted inverted( for me )
all the above: limited blacks

jhbodle

05-10-07, 12:36 PM

So you went from the Panny AE900 to the Epson EMP-TW1000 1080p? That is the upgrade I am considering. Is it worthwhile or shall I wait for the next year models?
I'll be totally honest with you...I was hoping for more. The image the Panny was giving off was already so good and I guess it's very hard to improve on a good picture. Hopefully it just needs some setting up - 1080p from the Playstation3 looks great, 1080i from my SkyHD box doesn't really look much better than my old 720p Panny.

Dimitris

05-10-07, 01:56 PM

Epson: noisy iris

I wouldn't go as far as calling it noisy. The only reason I heard it was because during the part of my review that concerned the iris operation I had no sound at all from the clips being displayed, to avoid any unecessary influences. During normal viewing you will only hear the iris along sections with very low volume.

exm

05-10-07, 02:05 PM

I'll be totally honest with you...I was hoping for more. The image the Panny was giving off was already so good and I guess it's very hard to improve on a good picture. Hopefully it just needs some setting up - 1080p from the Playstation3 looks great, 1080i from my SkyHD box doesn't really look much better than my old 720p Panny.

Thanks, I appreciate your input.

I'll probably hang on to my AE900 for another year and wait for the next generation 1080p models. Hopefully they'll also continue to drop in price!

jhbodle

05-10-07, 05:04 PM

Thanks, I appreciate your input.

I'll probably hang on to my AE900 for another year and wait for the next generation 1080p models. Hopefully they'll also continue to drop in price!
I'm sure they will.

Having now played with the image settings on the projector, I feel I have done the Epson a bit of an injustice. It DOES look better, and i've realised what I thought was noise on the picture is actually deficiencies in my screen that I couldn't notice with the Panasonic. It is brighter and colours are bolder. Give it an audition!

briandx

05-13-07, 05:15 PM

rswelter

05-17-07, 05:48 PM

rswelter:

I have been a big LCD detractor for years, however I am perfectly happy with my Epson 1000. The blacks are damn good, as well as everything else with this unit.

I would not give up on LCD until you see it for yourself. This forum is not the best place to make a purchasing decision alone. I have learned that lesson almost 10 years ago....

thanks for the input!!

I have seen the Espon actually, though the conditions were less than ideal. The same dealer has the RS1 now as well. There was an immediate difference going back and forth with blacks and to a lesser extent 3d clarity. I did enjoy the image alot. The only problem is that once I saw the JVC I was hooked. I am still in limbo, I would love to save some money and not look back!

What worries me is the iris on the Epson. Though I have never heard it move, or seen its effect like the Mits hc500, during a movie some have. The only time that I have heard it is when I changed viewing modes ie theater 1 to theater 2, and I thought that it was quite loud. like an oldfashioned camera shutter closing and opening. In my planned installation the proj would be 3' above my head. So noise level is important to me.

What are your thoughts about the iris?

thanks in advance

briandx

05-18-07, 03:23 PM

If you have the lamp on Low Power, during quiet moments in a movie you may be able to hear the iris working. It almost sounds like a computer disc drive hiccup.

I'm almost considering building a small hush box, as I would like to run the lamp on High Power, as well as turn the DI back on.

Having said that, even on low power and DI turned off I would give the overall picture quality of this unit a 9 out of 10. Given the PJs under $3K pricepoint, value is a 10 out of 10.

Regards,
Brian

nightstalker

05-21-07, 09:07 PM

kwokyan

05-22-07, 01:56 AM

Hey Guys,

I currently own the Hitachi TX-100 and overall am very happy with the picture but I am looking at upgrading to a 1080P unit.

Would the difference in PQ be a step change or a minor upgrade from where I'm at?

Also what is it like on upconverted SD DVD?

Thanks in advance

You should be able to notice the improvement of picture quality if you upgrade to a 1080p projector. However, in my opinion, there are 2 factors which affect the extent of improvement that you can notice:

1. what video source you are using, DVD or HD material;
2. the size of image that you are projecting

nightstalker

05-22-07, 05:28 AM

You should be able to notice the improvement of picture quality if you upgrade to a 1080p projector. However, in my opinion, there are 2 factors which affect the extent of improvement that you can notice:

1. what video source you are using, DVD or HD material;
2. the size of image that you are projecting

Thanks kwokyan, I would be projecting an 100" image. I generally sit far enough back that screendoor does not bother me too much on the Hitachi (or maybe I'm just used to it)

Currently most viewed source material is upscaled DVD but my HD DVD collection is growing :-).

Really want to turn it on and be wowed and not squinting to find subtle differences over my current setup.

To be honest I was thinking maybe the TW-700 would be a big step up from where I currently am, and maybe hold of on the 1080p stuff for a while.

Cheers.

cpc

05-22-07, 05:30 PM

I just sold my Hitachi TX200 and I am awaiting the arrival of an Epson 1080 so I will do my best to give you a review of the difference. The TX200 is like a TX100 without vertical banding and slightly better contrast, particularly in darker scenes when the iris works. I will be setting up the Epson 1080 and calibrating it simply right off the bat in theatre black and I'll try to give my impressions here. I will also be commenting specifically on how well standard def dvd looks via SDI through an iScan HD+ and also how the Epson looks using a Panamorph lens and constant height screen. :cool:

Thanks kwokyan, I would be projecting an 100" image. I generally sit far enough back that screendoor does not bother me too much on the Hitachi (or maybe I'm just used to it)

Currently most viewed source material is upscaled DVD but my HD DVD collection is growing :-).

Really want to turn it on and be wowed and not squinting to find subtle differences over my current setup.

To be honest I was thinking maybe the TW-700 would be a big step up from where I currently am, and maybe hold of on the 1080p stuff for a while.

Cheers.

wildfire99

05-22-07, 06:12 PM

I have seen the Espon actually, though the conditions were less than ideal. The same dealer has the RS1 now as well. There was an immediate difference going back and forth with blacks and to a lesser extent 3d clarity. I did enjoy the image alot. The only problem is that once I saw the JVC I was hooked. I am still in limbo, I would love to save some money and not look back!
Here's how I decided that. First, I could afford either (but I'd rather 'afford' the Epson). However come 6 months from now when the next 'big' thing comes down the pipe and the RS-1 is the second-string projector, and the Epson (Panny/Mitsu) then is the third-string projector, will you still be happy? I would have wanted to upgrade, after only 6 months, which just doesn't make sense, either economically or emotionally. And you have to take into consideration that a lot of the performance of the LCD's is from their Irises, which have their own implications (not all bad though) on image quality, performance, and a big thing to me was--mechanical stability. I didn't want something else that could break.

If I couldn't have 'afforded' the RS-1, then I'd have gone with the Epson and never looked back. Either one beats DLP for my eyes (due to image artifacts).

cpc

05-22-07, 08:53 PM

Does anybody have any suggestions for HDMI cables? Monoprice? Blue Jeans? RAM? If I have an Epson 1080 and a Toshiba XA2 for instance, and I want to be "future-proof"... what-ever that means...what 30 foot HDMI cable should I use, or could I get away with? If anybody has any suggestions, please let me know. With my previous setup using a cheap $70 30 foot DVI cable I was able to do 1080p 60 hz without a hiccup. Anyhow, if it's beyond the scope of this thread, please PM me your suggestions.

thanks

:)

rswelter

05-23-07, 12:28 AM

Here's how I decided that. First, I could afford either (but I'd rather 'afford' the Epson). However come 6 months from now when the next 'big' thing comes down the pipe and the RS-1 is the second-string projector, and the Epson (Panny/Mitsu) then is the third-string projector, will you still be happy? I would have wanted to upgrade, after only 6 months, which just doesn't make sense, either economically or emotionally. And you have to take into consideration that a lot of the performance of the LCD's is from their Irises, which have their own implications (not all bad though) on image quality, performance, and a big thing to me was--mechanical stability. I didn't want something else that could break.

If I couldn't have 'afforded' the RS-1, then I'd have gone with the Epson and never looked back. Either one beats DLP for my eyes (due to image artifacts).

thanks for the wisdom. very logical. Sounds like I am working thought the same thought process. I can afford either but would rather afford the lesser. I have more or less decided on the JVC but will give them each another look. I think your right about the upgraditis though.

regards,

also thanks to "briandx" for your input