Here is another clue for you. Toshiba SED. No more. Now research why that happened.

...

Way to go. Try not to let the facts get in the way. Do some research and get the facts straight before posting such clueless drivel. Here is a clue for you. Look up how Canon tried to Let Toshiba use the patent without authorization to do so. That is where they lost in court. Nano tried to settle with them on the Toshiba issue, but Canon was too arrogant to do so. That will get you started, now do some leg work, and get the rest of the facts for yourself. Then come back with some informed comments.

....


You forgot the usual "Canon has never ever ever built a tv before..." crap. :rolleyes:

You forgot the usual "Canon has never ever ever built a tv before..." crap. :rolleyes:


I am glad to see that you did not. Well have they, Einstein?. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I am glad to see that you did not. Well have they, Einstein?. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


Yeah, I have a gift for remembering the absurd.


Lets see, for the quarter ended March 31 (http://www.canon.com/ir/results/2007/rslt2007q1e.pdf), Canons net income was over 1 billion.Thats right boys and girls, 1 Billion Dollars! But your probably right, just too difficult for an industrial giant like Canon to figure out a TV.I mean medical imaging (http://www.usa.canon.com/html/industrial_medeq/drs.html), broadcast optics (http://www.usa.canon.com/html/industrial_bctv/home.shtml), consumer electronics (http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ConsumerHomePageAct)....no problem.
But a TV?
Just too much to figure out!
Perhaps they can pick up a few pointers on the Korean peninsula. That place is littered with TV manufacturers.Must be something in the water....right?


If that pesky, no profit law suit mill in Texas would quit wasting paper they could get on with it. ;)

And thats Mr Einstein to you. :)


""""

Lol. But don't you know that making TVs require special skills defined by Pioneer fans. There's no way Canon could figure out a TV. They haven't made a single consumer TV ever! Canon could buy 5-6 Nano-Proprietarys with just quarter profits. :rolleyes:

What I'd REALLY like to see is America to start producing TV's again in this country. We can invent the new video tech and hold patents but not build them? The post should read "I WANT MY USA SED/OLED!" :D

What I'd REALLY like to see is America to start producing TV's again in this country. We can invent the new video tech and hold patents but not build them? The post should read "I WANT MY USA SED/OLED!" :D
Interesting thought, but reading though the thread, isn't NPI a US company? A US company that holds more than a few patents that according to just my limited knowledge going to be the keystones in more than just SED in the future.

Also on the OLED front, there are some US companies that are heavy into the manufacturing of OLED tech. Not actual producers, but suppliers of materials, expertise and research. It is like all of the old BASF comercials, we don't make the product, we make it better and just plain possible in allot of cases.

Recently a US company came to us asking for manufacturing equipment for OLED panels. Wont be made in the US, but owned and ran by a US company. From my point of view in the industry, OLED is looking like it is about to take off in the next 2 years.

My 2 cents

Hmm, looks to me like this SED thing is actually going to happen now. Despite what their idiotic hijinks in this episode would lead you to believe, Canon is no Mickey Mouse operation. They're actually a hugely profitable and competent company in most areas, so renegotiating with Nano-Proprietary shouldn't be an issue even if the asking price is high. They bought up Toshiba's share in the venture, so they now own those manufacturing plants themselves, and while they may not have done TVs before, they've done a ton of other consumer electronics.

It would also be idiotic for Nano Proprietary not to renegotiate. There's a 5-7 year window of opportunity for SED to form its niche before OLED becomes available in large sizes. If Nano-Proprietary went with someone else, that window would be closed by the time they were done with R&D and setting up production facilities. The product would never come to market (or it would be too little, too late), and they would never see a cent off their IP, beyond the $5 mil from the broken contract with Canon. So I'm thinking they'll renegotiate pretty quickly.

Einstein sought to find answers. You just bloviated to try and conceal the plain unvarnished fact that Pioneer has never manufactured and distributed any TV sets.

Facts always strike the delusional as being absurd. Good boy now. Keep drinking your Canon Koolaid. It will allow you to keep watching your Fantasy SED panel in the comfort of your Never Never Land Home.


..


....


Wow...not your best work.Need a mulligan?

Interesting thought, but reading though the thread, isn't NPI a US company? A US company that holds more than a few patents that according to just my limited knowledge going to be the keystones in more than just SED in the future.

Also on the OLED front, there are some US companies that are heavy into the manufacturing of OLED tech. Not actual producers, but suppliers of materials, expertise and research. It is like all of the old BASF comercials, we don't make the product, we make it better and just plain possible in allot of cases.

Recently a US company came to us asking for manufacturing equipment for OLED panels. Wont be made in the US, but owned and ran by a US company. From my point of view in the industry, OLED is looking like it is about to take off in the next 2 years.

My 2 cents

Yes, I too have been coming to the conclusion that OLED video tech will offer the best chances to succeed in the display marketplace, and play the role as a dominate video tech. Afterall, OLED is ALREADY being mfg'erd, albeit tiny screens, but Sony demoed a larger display size at CES. It seems to me that SED "missed the boat" by not releasing a display 2 years ago. To break into the worldwide marketplace now, and at a time when Plasma & LCD video tech has improved so much, is not in the plans. What I think is that Canon will produce a small number of these SED displays for the highend Japanese professional market, and perhaps as a "reference" display for other professional areas. Not long after that, I suspect Canon to switch to the OLED game plan, which would have been enhanced by their experience w/SED.

Lol. I smell that greenland is a plasma fanboy who has just spent all his savings on a Pioneer 60 elite. Sorry greenland, plasma didn't deliver, SED will. No one will miss plasma.


Thanks for admitting that "You Smell". So does your addled musings. :D :D :D

Lol. I smell that greenland is a plasma fanboy who has just spent all his savings on a Pioneer 60 elite. Sorry greenland, plasma didn't deliver, SED will. No one will miss plasma.


This guy just posted on the new Pioneer Plasma thread about how great the New Pioneer Plasma is, and said that it is so good that it should not even be called a Plasma.

Get this. He states on here that Plasma fails, and then he goes over to the Pioneer Plasma thread and says the exact opposite. Keep in mind, this addled Maroon is making all his claims about SED and the new Pioneer PLasma, without ever having seen either. :rolleyes:

....

A slight pause in the personal action....

It seems to me there are quite a few plasma manufacturers and quite a few LCD
manufacturers. They have executives, engineers, and investors. If you assume
they are competitive and know their business, they would be working on alternate
technologies that have promise using some of their rather large (combined anyway) R&D
budgets. There are reports of several companies having worked on OLED and FED
for a very long time.

There seems to be only one working on SED, and still has no legal way to
sell a panel.

If SED was the next big thing, would there not be a stampede of companies
racing to market first? I'm thinking Samsung, Sony, Pioneer, and any number
of companies would readily throw $10M at Nano if there looked to be a big return.
Why have no other companies done so?

By no means has SED suddenly burst onto the scene
catching the competition off-guard. It does not seem logical that SED will
succeed with only a single company working on it. You can either assume
that pioneer, sony, fujitsu, samsung and the rest are missing the boat and
don't have a clue, or SED is not the future. Am I missing some information?
Canon may have smart execs and engineers, but they do not have all the smart
ones.

flatpanel, or.....they could be crazy like a fox. See my earlier post. Canon is certainly no dummy. My thinking is that Canon is doing a ropa-dope strategy routine w/a SED smokescreen, and its R&D is stealthly working on OLED. Their printing technological knowledge is right up OLED's alley, and if one is assuming Canon does have some foresight and good business sense, then this is the only logical reasoning I can imagine.

By no means has SED suddenly burst onto the scene
catching the competition off-guard. It does not seem logical that SED will
succeed with only a single company working on it. You can either assume
that pioneer, sony, fujitsu, samsung and the rest are missing the boat and
don't have a clue, or SED is not the future. Am I missing some information?


There was a recent report saying that Samsung is interested in SED:
http://www.smarthouse.com.au/TVs_And_Large_Display/SED/R2N7X7V9

I also doubt that Toshiba has completely given up on it after working on it with Canon for so long.

flatpanel, or.....they could be crazy like a fox. See my earlier post. Canon is certainly no dummy. My thinking is that Canon is doing a ropa-dope strategy routine w/a SED smokescreen, and its R&D is stealthly working on OLED. Their printing technological knowledge is right up OLED's alley, and if one is assuming Canon does have some foresight and good business sense, then this is the only logical reasoning I can imagine.

I could make a snarky comment about Canon just being crazy but that isn't fair. :)

Look, SED just hasn't worked out for Canon like they hoped. You can have foresight, good business sense, smart people, lots of resources and sometimes things still fail (or at least don't meet your goals/expectations).

There is no "manifest destiny" with any new technology. Once we hear about new stuff like SED, it is hard not to believe it is just around the corner. We see all these other amazing things going on in technology and it becomes a foregone conclusion that SED will ship and be the best ever. I think it is clear that SED still faces *enormous* challenges.

SED is very difficult techology. Canon has put it in many years and over 1 BILLION dollars into it. Unfortunately, they don't have much to show for it. It does not appear they have a production line that can generate significant quantities at competive prices. I'm sure going in Canon thought their printing technology would solve some of the technical hurdles. It is too bad for them (and us) that this has not worked out.

Canon is seriously handicapped by their timing. It just couldn't be worse. The price of LCD/Plasmas has dropped *tremendously* over the past 3 years. It seems that no matter what production cost savings Canon achieves, it is quickly lost to LCD/Plasma price drops.

Additionally, whatever quality advantage SED ends up having may also be moot. First, most consumers don't (and won't) care about any perceived advantage. Go to Costco/Walmart and look at all the Vizios/Olevias/etc. flying off the shelves. Price is king for most consumers. For the Tier 1 manufacturers (Pioneer/Panasonic/Samsung/Toshiba/etc.), they are slowly but steadily improving quality. For customers who do care about quality, they may find it hard to justify the additional quality for SED given what will likely be a large price differential.

I don't know how the new Pioneer Plasma or Sharp LCD will compare against SED (I would claim no one does). I would *guess* that there will be a difference but not jaw dropping. One year from now, it is not hard to imagine an 8G 50" Pioneer plasma selling for 2k or less. I would bet against SED even being available a year from now given the technical and legal issues. Even if it were, Canon's last comments (small shipments to specific industries, not retail) would indicate a very high price for an equivalent SED TV. With a scenario like that, I cannot see many customers buying SED. Some will but I don't think it will be economically viable for Canon.

I would recommend reading every post by rogo in this thread. His analysis is excellent (and I probably rehashed a lot of it).

Bruce

Bruce, I can well agree that Rogo's posts have been right on the mark, and I used to read them regularly over the years when he was often posting. That's not my point, and I agree with everything you wrote. My point is that Canon seems to be aching to get into this display game, but can imagine they know SED's future is pretty dim right now. I doubt ANY SED's will even be produced for the public, and I think the last word we heard from them in this regard was that they will only make a very small number of SED's and sell to the ultra high-end professional market as a "reference" monitor. I know I'm giving Canon a little credit here for good common sense, but you have to ask yourself why would Canon even bother? My answer to this hard question is that Canon is in fact looking ahead, and is in fact tooling up for OLED production after they have had a brief experience w/SED limited production. After a short run or so they will drop SED like a hot potato and switch to OLED as the path to a real marketshare. Of course this is total speculation on my part, and this is where I'd like Rogo to step in here and tell me I'm full of sh*t, or I'm half right, or dead on the mark...no pun intended, Rogo. :D

So to all of the pretenders beware. Don't dare try to fool the public with a reglossed, repackaged obsolete display technology under guise of it being a new technology just so you can suck more $$$ out of some gullible A/V enthusiast who really can't see through your bogus marketing campaign.



Nothing like ignoring reality. Nothing like ignoring what I've already seen in the upcoming Panasonic 750. Nothing like ignoring all the press reports, eyewitness observations and A/V magazine reports on the Pioneer super plasmas that will be out shortly. Nothing like ignoring all those that have seen BOTH SED and the Pioneer super plasmas and then saying they're at least as good as SED if not better.

But hey, I don't have any significant part of my life savings wrapped up in SED technology that could totally distort or bias my opinion. Diversify your investments Auditor, diversify! ;)

For customers who do care about quality, they may find it hard to justify the additional quality for SED given what will likely be a large price differential.

Bruce

And that's an interesting point. When SED was first discussed, it did appear to promise quality that was head and shoulders above anything else. Now that we have entered a radical new age in plasma picture quality as will be evidenced by the new Pioneer super plasmas, the disparity, if any, will be so slight that it will more than likely take a very controlled setting and an eye that is very sensitive to the smallest differences. Now that we have the pricing on the Pioneers, they are far far less than some SED diehards were predicting. This is yet another nail in the stillborn SED coffin.

Bruce, you are correct, as much as I like Canon and Canon products, their timing couldn't be worse.

I could make a snarky comment about Canon just being crazy but that isn't fair. :)

Look, SED just hasn't worked out for Canon like they hoped. You can have foresight, good business sense, smart people, lots of resources and sometimes things still fail (or at least don't meet your goals/expectations).

There is no "manifest destiny" with any new technology. Once we hear about new stuff like SED, it is hard not to believe it is just around the corner. We see all these other amazing things going on in technology and it becomes a foregone conclusion that SED will ship and be the best ever. I think it is clear that SED still faces *enormous* challenges.

SED is very difficult techology. Canon has put it in many years and over 1 BILLION dollars into it. Unfortunately, they don't have much to show for it. It does not appear they have a production line that can generate significant quantities at competive prices. I'm sure going in Canon thought their printing technology would solve some of the technical hurdles. It is too bad for them (and us) that this has not worked out.

Canon is seriously handicapped by their timing. It just couldn't be worse. The price of LCD/Plasmas has dropped *tremendously* over the past 3 years. It seems that no matter what production cost savings Canon achieves, it is quickly lost to LCD/Plasma price drops.

Additionally, whatever quality advantage SED ends up having may also be moot. First, most consumers don't (and won't) care about any perceived advantage. Go to Costco/Walmart and look at all the Vizios/Olevias/etc. flying off the shelves. Price is king for most consumers. For the Tier 1 manufacturers (Pioneer/Panasonic/Samsung/Toshiba/etc.), they are slowly but steadily improving quality. For customers who do care about quality, they may find it hard to justify the additional quality for SED given what will likely be a large price differential.

I don't know how the new Pioneer Plasma or Sharp LCD will compare against SED (I would claim no one does). I would *guess* that there will be a difference but not jaw dropping. One year from now, it is not hard to imagine an 8G 50" Pioneer plasma selling for 2k or less. I would bet against SED even being available a year from now given the technical and legal issues. Even if it were, Canon's last comments (small shipments to specific industries, not retail) would indicate a very high price for an equivalent SED TV. With a scenario like that, I cannot see many customers buying SED. Some will but I don't think it will be economically viable for Canon.

I would recommend reading every post by rogo in this thread. His analysis is excellent (and I probably rehashed a lot of it).

Bruce

I agree that cannon better do something soon because it is simple logic that the longer it takes to get the units out on the market, Plasma's and LCD's keep getting cheaper ranging from the very high end systems to the ultra budget versions found in Wal-Mart..

Reality Check.

Pioneer has a line of Plasmas on the market. Canon has nothing on the Market.

Canon has never achieved any of the SED timelines that they have touted, over and over again.

Canon has lost Toshiba as a partner. If they could have gone it alone, why would they have formed a partnership with Toshiba, in the first place.

Canon has said lots of things about their plans and production goals, in the past, and none of them ever materialized.

Yet they still have a few people, such as the one who asks us to call him Bobo, how apt, that keep on falling for Lucy Canon's SEDBall promise.

Go ahead, all you Bobo Browns. Have another try at kicking the SEDBall. Lucy Canon promises that this time she will not pull it away from you at the last minute. :D :D :D

...

Thanks for the pointer Bruce, I'll check it out.

This debate is interesting. The "LCD vs Plasma" debate makes sense. Both are
shipping and there is personal preference and specs and such. The "SED vs.
Everything Else" debate has so much passion with so little evidence.

http://www.efytimes.com/efytimes/fullnews.asp?edid=18827&magid=11


Tsuneji Uchida, president and chief operating officer, Canon, said, "We are not restricting our views to the Japanese market. We have the global market in mind. Canon was eager to resolve the dispute and sort out production constraints involving both the new screens and across the entire business.”

Reality Check..
Go ahead, all you Bobo Browns. Have another try at kicking the SEDBall. Lucy Cannon promises that this time she will not pull it away from you at the last minute. :D Classic!

This guy just posted on the new Pioneer Plasma thread about how great the New Pioneer Plasma is, and said that it is so good that it should not even be called a Plasma.

Get this. He states on here that Plasma fails, and then he goes over to the Pioneer Plasma thread and says the exact opposite. Keep in mind, this addled Maroon is making all his claims about SED and the new Pioneer PLasma, without ever having seen either. :rolleyes:

....I think that he is an alias for one of the long standing SED supporters in this thread. After seeing several of his posts in different sections of the forum something seemed very fishy about him so I checked his posting history.

callmebobo starts off mocking Plasma with his very first post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10489079&&#post10489079), he than states this so called "fact" about LCD/Plasma (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10489200&&#post10489200), he has posted about "scrapping" old technology (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10491036&&#post10491036), he has openly attacked Plasma (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10508702&&#post10508702), he has made many posts in the Pioneer Plasma thread mocking it (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10489388&&#post10489388), which he continues (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10497732&&#post10497732) and continues (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10497980&&#post10497980) and continues (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10505349&&#post10505349) and continues (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10505398&&#post10505398) and continues (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10505861&&#post10505861) and continues (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10509731&&#post10509731) ...

What I really dislike is the fact that he repeatedly trolls in the Pioneer Plasma thread while pretending at times to be interested in it. Personally I don't understand why someone would go so far to attack something like that.


Plasma moving picture resulution:
...
Flat line with SED. :cool:bobo, last I checked you couldn't prove that for CRT when you claimed that in another thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10506549&&#post10506549) so I am highly skeptical you could prove that for SED.

He is indeed Sampo with all the same 'arguments'...nothing has changed. He is indeed a troll. We should all ignore him as he has an agenda and brings absolutely nothing to the table. He is deceptive and is actually an out and out liar in how he tries to 'lull' you into thinking he is objective. But in a short time he reverts to who he is. Mods are having a hard time with this guy, but we all know who he is now and he needs to be ignored.

I notice that several of bobo's posts I had linked to are now gone. In fact I notice that his post count which was around 50 earlier today is now down to 22. For anyone who is really curious though the posts were deleted the links still go to the right pages and there are usually quotes of them there.


He is indeed Sampo with all the same 'arguments'...nothing has changed. He is indeed a troll. We should all ignore him as he has an agenda and brings absolutely nothing to the table. He is deceptive and is actually an out and out liar in how he tries to 'lull' you into thinking he is objective. But in a short time he reverts to who he is. Mods are having a hard time with this guy, but we all know who he is now and he needs to be ignored.I see, and that does explain a lot.

How common is this behavior?

How common is this behavior?

....just don't feed the damn troll. It is what is, and that's been the nature of a free internet since its conception. Mods will deal w/it accordingl. As for you, simply ignore it.

They bought up Toshiba's share in the venture, so they now own those manufacturing plants themselves...

There are no such manufacturing plants. The only plant planned to mass produce SED was first scaled back from cutting edge technology to use an older, more expensive method, but one that would allow easier future conversion to an LCD plant if things didn't work out. And then that was cancelled.

There's a 5-7 year window of opportunity for SED to form its niche...

Yep. As in "There was."

So I'm thinking they'll renegotiate pretty quickly.

I agree. It'll be done quickly- or not at all.

There are few similarities between manufacturing SED and OLED- little to be gained by going the SED route first. But Canon is, indeed, well versed in "ink jet" and other techniques that would serve well in manufacturing OLEDs.

I thought SED was already buried. How many funerals has it had so far?

I don't know how the new Pioneer Plasma or Sharp LCD will compare against SED

They don't. SED is already superior to both Plasma and LCD. LCD is a joke.

Nothing like ignoring reality. Nothing like ignoring what I've already seen in the upcoming Panasonic 750. Nothing like ignoring all the press reports, eyewitness observations and A/V magazine reports on the Pioneer super plasmas that will be out shortly. Nothing like ignoring all those that have seen BOTH SED and the Pioneer super plasmas and then saying they're at least as good as SED if not better.

But hey, I don't have any significant part of my life savings wrapped up in SED technology that could totally distort or bias my opinion. Diversify your investments Auditor, diversify! ;)

I don't have my saving wrapped up in SED. I certainly don't plan on taking out a second mortgage for an over-hyped, repackage, recooked technology, falsley marketed as "new" technology. As I have said, I want to see the best display technology in creation to be available to the public.

I already have Plasma and LCD sets and know what those technologies are capable of and they are a long way from what SED is.

I don't have my saving wrapped up in SED. I certainly don't plan on taking out a second mortgage for an over-hyped, repackage, recooked technology, falsley marketed as "new" technology. As I have said, I want to see the best display technology in creation to be available to the public.

I already have Plasma and LCD sets and know what those technologies are capable of and they are a long way from what SED is.

Your right. LCD and Plasma use old fashioned el-ect-triciy :p

They are a long from SED since they are real.

- Rich

I thought SED was already buried. How many funerals has it had so far?

Isn't amazing how they just can't seem to the drive steak into the heart of SED. :)

Now that we have entered a radical new age in plasma picture quality as will be evidenced by the new Pioneer super plasmas, the disparity,


That's really funny!! A radical new age in plasma, ha!ha!ha! Now that's a real oxymoron.

Question: How can it be radical when its plasma or PDP? A super plasma, yeah right. A super plasma with a 20,000-1 CR, when SED already has a 5 times greater CR as demonstrated last year.

You may not believe this, but in my opinion Plasma has the best PQ of all digital displays, however, being that its digital it suffers from the flaws of digital displays and it always will.

Plasma is not the future of display technology, unless developers cease trying to push the envelope of advanced display technology.

I thought SED was already buried. How many funerals has it had so far?No funeral yet, but than again SED hasn't even been born yet.


They don't. SED is already superior to both Plasma and LCD. LCD is a joke.LCD has improved greatly over time and sells millions of displays each year with sales expected to keep increasing. On the other hand SED is a display that is shown off year after year at trade shows but has yet to be sold to consumers and every indication is that even when/if it is sold to consumers it will be at a very high price.


You may not believe this, but in my opinion Plasma has the best PQ of all digital displays, however, being that its digital it suffers from the flaws of digital displays and it always will.Now that is an interesting opinion to have since many people would consider SED to be a digital display since it also has a fixed pixel resolution.

I think what auditor means is that the colours produced by plasma are created by an emission technology that's fundamentally on/off and requires timing to create intermediate shades, whereas SED, like CRT, uses a fundamentally analog technology based on varying a driving voltage. Both are obviously digital in the spatial dimensions.

Isn't amazing how they just can't seem to the drive steak into the heart of SED. :)


Who are the "they" you refer to , and why have they been trying to drive a slab of beef into SED?.

Perhaps they should try using a piece of beef jerky!.

:D :D

Auditor, have you ever seen an SED set in person. Yes or no.

Have you ever seen one of the new super plasmas? Yes or no.

Has anyone seen SED glow in the dark? Yes or no.
Has anyone seen the new super plasmas glow in the dark? Yes or no.

That is not the question I asked and it was not directed at you (unless, as others have guessed, and seems likely, you are just an auditor alias).

Have you personally seen an SED set? yes or no
Have you personally seen a super plasma? yes or no

As to your silly comments above, people that have seen the super plasmas "glow in the dark" have proclaimed them to be SED killers. These are the same people who have seen SED as well. Since you/Auditor apparently base your claims on SED's superiority on (a) specs, and (b) third-hand comments from viewers at trade shows, I'm wondering why you discount those same viewers when they say super plasmas are almost as/just as good as SED?

Please answer the question asked without spouting nonsense.

Yet another non-answer. I'm guessing that means the answer to both is NO.

http://web.canon.jp/pressrelease/2007/p2007may16.html

So, while time is of the essence, Canon appeals the initial judgement of breach of contract. The stakes are high or time is not important. LCD and Plasma may be snapping at SED's door.:D

They managed to get off easy, and yet they're still appealing it? Talk about criminally stupid. Sheesh, how long will it take before the appeal even gets to court? Nano-Proprietary would've almost surely renegotiated quickly, but if they appeal and lose, they're almost surely screwed for good. They'll only be out a few million putting together a new contract, which is a drop in the bucket for Canon. How much are they losing by going to court, especially when you factor in the fact that it endangers their entire SED project's very existence?

The same people said also that Panasonic plasma is as good as CRT. Maybe as good as 25 year old beat up CRT. Read the latest reports. Consensus is that Super plasma still glows and is inferior to CRT. Nothing has changed. Do you really think that people are able to remember that how a display exactly looked a year or two ago?


Reports about the reglazzed, repackaged, recooked so-called super plasmas glowing doesn't surprise me at all. I have warned folks about them. I can't wait until they come out so we can be over and done with the huge dissapointment that awaits them. Next they will be calling for the 9th generation Plasmas.

Its going to be a while until most are convinced that the holy grail of display technology is SED and nothing else compares. SED will finally deliver videophiles worldwide from of evils that we've had to endure do so long that is present in most today's display technologies.

How many generations of Plasmas and LCD's is it going to take to get the blacks right? Why not have a technology where blacks is not an issue at all.

So, while time is of the essence, Canon appeals the initial judgement of breach of contract. The stakes are high or time is not important. LCD and Plasma may be snapping at SED's door.:D

I don't blame them. They should fight that backwards little Texas company. A company that developes technology and dares anyone to implement it.

LCD has improved greatly over time and sells millions of displays each year with sales expected to keep increasing

This is true, you can even find LCD displays in Mcdonalds, they sell millions of those wonderful videophile displays. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

They managed to get off easy, and yet they're still appealing it? Talk about criminally stupid. Sheesh, how long will it take before the appeal even gets to court? Nano-Proprietary would've almost surely renegotiated quickly, but if they appeal and lose, they're almost surely screwed for good. They'll only be out a few million putting together a new contract, which is a drop in the bucket for Canon. How much are they losing by going to court, especially when you factor in the fact that it endangers their entire SED project's very existence?

Well, endless delays getting product to market and plunging prices probably had more to do with endangering the SED project. Keeping the legal wrangling going a while longer gives Canon execs a better excuse for the project's failure.

Yet another non-answer. I'm guessing that means the answer to both is NO.

Here's what Rogo said regarding the 8-G plasma when he saw it at the CES.

"How dare I report this isn't the second coming of display technology?
Some other things are clear: People who saw the blacks as disappearing into the bezel are either (a) confused (b) had their irises and visual perception system skewed in such a way that illusion existed for them or (c) are touting some phenomenon that just wasn't there. "


Now with the recent reports of the 8-G Plasma glowing, we can now confirm his observation.

As to your silly comments above, people that have seen the super plasmas "glow in the dark" have proclaimed them to be SED killers.

This is so funny. I thought SED was supposed to be stillborn, so how could it be killed by a super plasma if it was already dead.

Those people who proclaim any big ole heavy, enviornmentally unfriendly, energy sucking plasma to be superior to SED are really lost, they have no credibility. They were probably the same people(fools in the media) touting the Sony Quilia SXRD as the best display ever, now we see how false that claim was.

The same will be true about this so-called SED Killer, what a joke!! :rolleyes:

This is so funny. I thought SED was supposed to be stillborn, so how could it be killed by a super plasma if it was already dead.

Those people who proclaim any big ole heavy, enviornmentally unfriendly, energy sucking plasma to be superior to SED are really lost, they have no credibility. They were probably the same people(fools in the media) touting the Sony Quilia SXRD as the best display ever, now we see how false that claim was.

The same will be true about this so-called SED Killer, what a joke!! :rolleyes:
SED Killer?

Don't think that there is or will be just one thing that kills SED. It has already taken allot of small hits as is. Improvement in the PDP and LCD technology, shifts to larger screen sizes, dramatic price reductions in other technology, mass production viability and now lawsuits.

There is or will be no one SED killer, it is and will continue to be many things.

OLED will be the final small hit that SED will take to finally kill it completely. Although LCD seems poised to take the whole market except for a small share of PDP for the purists out there, when OLED finally makes it to market, you will see many of the manufactures have dual lines of LCD and OLED. The main difference in the construction of an OLED from the LCD is the front panel. The rear panel is still a TFT array and is made the same way that the LCD TFT array is made. The OLED front panel is different, but can be made though the same processes that the current LCD filter array is made.

if they appeal and lose, they're almost surely screwed for good.

More like "we in the U.S." will be screwed for good....which is something that people applauding this fiasco don't seem to get.

This thread is littered w/so much BS it's getting diificult to wade through it. Wouldn't it be a grand design to actually discuss SED in an intelligent thoughtful manner rather than the troll-like rants I keep reading over & over & over. Hey, if you really have something important to say about SED, then spout it out. Don't tell us how bad Plasma & LCD tech is compared to SED. Who gives a rat's ass. Get down & dirty my friend and tell us EXACTLY why you think SED is worth the effort everyone here seems to be expending on its behalf. At least that would be beneficial to all.

SED Killer PDPs (http://gear.ign.com/articles/753/753836p1.html) ;)

and they cost a lot less too! :)

So how much a SED display costs? That Pioneer plasma is a joke.

How is that Pioneer plasma a joke? Its coming out in a couple months. People have seen it, people have reviewed it, they are being produced. Where is SED? Where are the set that can be reviewed? By the time SED comes out (which I hope it does) Plasma will have gone through a few more generations. Why is that a joke? It is now, it is available. SED? Nothing.

It's only a marginal(if any) improvement over current plasmas. Why call a marginal improvement "super plasma" or "sed killer". 8G performance is all hype. There has been no real reviews of 8G Pioneers, where are the sets that can be reviewed? Currently 8G is as available as SED.

I just caught your userid, I forgot who I was talking to, sorry, you'll never be convinced.

Sad, so sad.

TNG:
There is or will be no one SED killer, it is and will continue to be many things.
Unfortunately, it seems to be committing suicide rather than being killed.

borf:
More like "we in the U.S." will be screwed for good....which is something that people applauding this fiasco don't seem to get.
Hmm, are you saying that losing the contract won't stop Canon from being able to sell SED in other countries? That would sure suck, especially if it really does turn out to be good.

And yeah, I find the folks who are all gleeful about the prospects of SED's prenatal death to be nearly as intolerable as the Auditor55 crowd. It's just bad when a technology is killed off by extraneous crap. It could've at least helped drive down the prices of the Pioneers that most of them seem to be fan(boy)s of.

Hmm, are you saying that losing the contract won't stop Canon from being able to sell SED in other countries? That would sure suck, especially if it really does turn out to be good.

And yeah, I find the folks who are all gleeful about the prospects of SED's prenatal death to be nearly as intolerable as the Auditor55 crowd. It's just bad when a technology is killed off by extraneous crap. It could've at least helped drive down the prices of the Pioneers that most of them seem to be fan(boy)s of.
I agree. It would be good to see SED come out as a competing technology. That is never bad. What is bad is that it will be potentially killed off by lawyers, not problems with the technology.

If Canon can't find some way to use the Nano patents legally, they wont produce a comercial product here or anywhere. They are heavily invested in the US CE market and Nano could use the court system to kill them here if they sell SED only in Asia or anywhere.

Still can't help but think that Nano will loose money if Canon doesn't develop and sell SED. I am not up on the patent, but there are probably limited uses for this patent and SED seems to be a viable way to squeeze money out of it. Maybe there are more people interested in this patent for other uses.

So how a glowing plasma should convince anyone to believe that we have reached the ultimate PQ? Take off your Pioneer fanboy glasses.

I couldn't care which plasma I own. I just happen to own one of the best manufacturer's of plasmas out there (as reported in numerous reviews). I couldn't care if it was Panasonic (almost bought one), Fujitsu (little to pricey for the difference). Its not my fault Pioneer is releasing one of the best Plasma's ever seen. Fanboy? Not hardly. If someone comes out with one better, I'll be getting one of those instead. Until then, someone has to beat Pioneer, and no one has. SED hasn't because its vaporware, lawsuits, delays, it will be years. If it comes out and kills everything with picture quality, sign me up.

You on the other hand, need to take off your glasses, its really pathetic, empty words and information. You have no proof, no reviews saying what you believe. Its just your personal opinion for whatever reason. I feel so sad for you Caliroots, it must be so lonely wherever you are at.

SED is a digitally controlled analog display.It depends on how you look at it. For instance LCD sends out an analog driving voltage but most people would still consider it to be a digital display because it has a fixed pixel resolution.


Does dot pitch make CRT a digital display?LCD, Plasma, and SED have a fixed pixel resolution while CRT does not. There are advantages to having a fixed pixel resolution such as perfect geometry and perfect convergence.


Its going to be a while until most are convinced that the holy grail of display technology is SED and nothing else compares.No one has seen a consumer grade SED display let alone tested it against other display technologies. The only thing seen so far has been a few SED displays shown in carefully controlled environments at CE shows.

I couldn't care which plasma I own. I just happen to own one of the best manufacturer's of plasmas out there (as reported in numerous reviews). I couldn't care if it was Panasonic (almost bought one), Fujitsu (little to pricey for the difference). Its not my fault Pioneer is releasing one of the best Plasma's ever seen. Fanboy? Not hardly. If someone comes out with one better, I'll be getting one of those instead. Until then, someone has to beat Pioneer, and no one has. SED hasn't because its vaporware, lawsuits, delays, it will be years. If it comes out and kills everything with picture quality, sign me up.

You on the other hand, need to take off your glasses, its really pathetic, empty words and information. You have no proof, no reviews saying what you believe. Its just your personal opinion for whatever reason. I feel so sad for you Caliroots, it must be so lonely wherever you are at.

Same here, and I would cheer loudly for any video tech out there that makes advances in PQ. I personally think SED missed their window of opportunity to jump into the fray of competing displays in a worldwide market 2 years ago, but who knows for sure? I've seen some pretty wierd happenings in the Consumer Electronics game before. As for these trolls who keep popping up on this thread, I'd just ignore them.

Wrong. CRT's dot pitch is it's native resolution. Fixed resolution display doesn't automatically have perfect geometry or convergence. Think about curved screens or 3chip projection.

Are you sure? Does that mean that a 36" CRT with .52 dot pitch has more resolution than a 27" with the same dot pitch?

Does that mean that displays with aperture grills (Sony) are inferior to sets with shadow masks?

Yes.

Thank You. If an SED panel has 6.6mill phosphers to support 1920x1080, are those 'stacked' or side by side like a CRT? No trick questions, just curious.:D

Isn't 6.6 million electron emitters a bit different than one to three guns exciting phospers? Isn't electron emission the heart of the litigation? If NPI prevails, doesn't that also effect patents on CNT and FED as well? Thanks again

Isn't 6.6 million electron emitters a bit different than one to three guns exciting phospers? Isn't electron emission the heart of the litigation? If NPI prevails, doesn't that also effect patents on CNT and FED as well? Thanks again
Just breifly looking at the patents, it would seem that all of the patents have the use of carbon nanotubes involved.

The use of this type of a material seems to play a part in the longevity of the emmiter itself.

If the other FED or CNT do not use this type of emmiter then it looks like they can do it. I know that the previous Sony enterprise here in the US was using conical emmiters with tips to do the same job. Problem was that the emmiter tip had to be a specific distance from the phosphor and they could not control that well enough to go to mass production.

SED is using the nano sized gap to shoot the electrons across it and the scatter is what excites the phosphors.

The SED ship is about to sail off into the sunset, never to be seen again, and Canon seems to be pushing it along. According to numerous observers, arrogance features large in Canon's relationship with Nano. How can this have a happy ending for SED TV fans?

They managed to get off easy, and yet they're still appealing it? Talk about criminally stupid. Sheesh, how long will it take before the appeal even gets to court? Nano-Proprietary would've almost surely renegotiated quickly, but if they appeal and lose, they're almost surely screwed for good. They'll only be out a few million putting together a new contract, which is a drop in the bucket for Canon. How much are they losing by going to court, especially when you factor in the fact that it endangers their entire SED project's very existence?

Wrong. CRT's dot pitch is it's native resolution.Not at all, for instance there have been many CRT computer monitors that have recommended resolutions lower than their maximum resolutions. In fact you can easily drive a CRT to hard, often resulting in a soft picture, without getting to the point were the dot pitch of the display would become an issue. Also as already mentioned dot pitch means little without knowing the size of the display.


Fixed resolution display doesn't automatically have perfect geometry or convergence. Think about curved screens or 3chip projection.True, and I should have clarified that statement by saying that was only for flat panel displays.

Can you really patent the concept of using carbon nanotubes for display purposes? That seems to be a pretty broad and obvious idea. Wouldn't you have to patent a specific method of applying nanotubes to this purpose?

Well Sony is still researching FED (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_emission_display) so it is possible that the patents Nano have only apply to certain methods to make an SED display. Sony though has shown little interest though in trying to make FED a consumer display and it looks like they are only aiming for it to be a professional display. Supposedly SED is easier to make than FED though there really hasn't been any evidence of that. Also Canon did buy into research concerning non-Carbon based FED displays (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_emission_display) back in 2004 but it doesn't sound like that research was leading anywhere.

Before Toshiba dropped out of the joint SED development and production partnership, with Canon, they had stated that SED was going to be very expensive, and would not be introduced as a Retail Consumer product. They said that it would only be produced as a very expensive Professional display for video production and professional display uses.

This was even before Canon had to stop everything, because of their court loss to Nano. So, why are some people still claiming that as soon as Canon and Nano reach and agreement, then Canon will be able to, soon after, start churning out Consumer SED panels.

Toshiba said that they and Canon had already decided against doing that, even before the Nano court claims against Canon had been decided.

....

If the talks between Nano-Proprietary and Samsung are true, SED would have a more realistic chance of making a serious impact on the display market.

If the talks between Nano-Proprietary and Samsung are true, SED would have a more realistic chance of making a serious impact on the display market.

Dude, haven't you been following this thread....SED will have NO IMPACT on the display market, EVEN IF they decide to release a pro SED for Japan in 2008.

Can you really patent the concept of using carbon nanotubes for display purposes? That seems to be a pretty broad and obvious idea. Wouldn't you have to patent a specific method of applying nanotubes to this purpose?

The US Patent Office is known for awarding obvious, "garbage" patents. Certain companies exploit that. They never intend to make any product, they just want to license their obvious patents and make money that way.

Recent Supreme Court decision tightening the obviousness requirement might put a stop to it. That decision is retroactive.

Perhaps Canon should just take Nano to court and argue that all their patents are invalid in light of the recent SCOTUS decision.

Before Toshiba dropped out of the joint SED development and production partnership, with Canon, they had stated that SED was going to be very expensive, and would not be introduced as a Retail Consumer product. They said that it would only be produced as a very expensive Professional display for video production and professional display uses.True, but Toshiba used to hint that long term they expected to make SED displays for the consumer market. Canon even went further than that and at times actually stated that they wanted to one day make SED displays comparable in price to LCD and Plasma. One of the reasons there has been so much false hope about SED is because many people took such optimistic long term predictions the wrong way. The problem with SED is that though people know how to make it no one knows how to make it at a reasonable cost. I think Toshiba began to realize that in late 2006 which led them to start making more realistic predictions for what would be the target market for SED.


This was even before Canon had to stop everything, because of their court loss to Nano.Just to add to this but Canon started delaying SED production plans long before the incident with Nano. In fact from what I can see in this wikipedia article on SED (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SED-tv) besides the fact that Canon started research on SED back in 1986 they had actually announced plans to start building them in 1999. Obviously that did not happen. In fact when Toshiba and Canon teamed up to produce SED the original plan was for them to start selling it in late 2005. Once again that did not happen. Even if the lawsuit with Nano had never happened who knows if Canon would have been able to even start small scale production of SED this year.


So, why are some people still claiming that as soon as Canon and Nano reach and agreement, then Canon will be able to, soon after, start churning out Consumer SED panels.False hope, and lots of it.

Ah, but remember, cream always rises to the top! (But so do dead fish....) :D

Has anyone of you seen a FED in action?

Toshiba has not been known to be a top tier manufacturer. As good as crt is would you buy a direc-view or rear proj toshiba? Even with the greatest technology in the world does toshiba have the tv know how? Or would the technology be so good it would not matter that it is a toshiba.

One advantage of pdp is that it's in it's 8th year or more of development. Any first generation product will likely be perfect.

Zues, shouldn't that be, "....will likely be imperfect"?

Is this technology dead?

Is this technology dead?

Boy, your gonna open a can of worms with that question. :D You'll get a million different answers from "it never was" to "it's just around the corner".

The real answer; who knows. The technology obviously is out there, but the ability to make it to the point it's viable, probably is not.

Is this technology dead?


It's not at Best Buy yet. That's all that matters ;) .

When it is we can all celebrate!

It's not at Best Buy yet. That's all that matters ;) .

When it is we can all celebrate!

And it is not at any other retailers, either. Nada.

I guess that the main reason for that may be, just may be, I am going way out on limb here, is because none are even being manufactured. I sure hate when such silly little things, like requiring having at least one manufacturer actually producing a product, to make it a viable sales item, intrudes into the Fantasy lives of the SEDvis lives crowd. ;)

...

Boy, your gonna open a can of worms with that question. :D You'll get a million different answers from "it never was" to "it's just around the corner".

The real answer; who knows. The technology obviously is out there, but the ability to make it to the point it's viable, probably is not.

And that's the bottom line isn't it. I've been waiting for a 3D holographic type TV since the first Star Wars. While it's technically feasible inside a lab, for consumers it's just not a practicallity.

Ah, but remember, cream always rises to the top! (But so do dead fish....) :D

:p :D ;)

http://www.digitimes.com/displays/a20070525PR208.html

Got this off of Reuters

Canon, Toshiba to delay SED new flat TV launch

TOKYO, May 25 (Reuters) - Canon Inc. (7751.T: Quote, Profile, Research and Toshiba Corp. (6502.T: Quote, Profile, Research have decided to postpone the launch of SED TVs from their latest target of late 2007, the Japanese companies said on Friday, raising doubt over the commercial viability of the new flat televisions.

Canon cited a prolonged patent lawsuit with Nano-Proprietary Inc. (NNPP.OB: Quote, Profile, Research as a reason for the delay. It is also delaying the launch to develop the technology to cut production costs, a step necessary to compete with LCD and plasma TVs, the company said. 3

Toshiba, which plans to procure SED panels from Canon, is postponing the TV launch as Canon is unable to start supplying the panels on time.

The new launch timing has yet to be decided, they said.

Despite the delay, however, both companies said they have no intentions of abandoning plans to offer SED TVs.

"We still plan to offer SED TVs as soon as we secure panel supplies," a Toshiba spokeswoman said.

SED (surface-conduction electron-emitter display) TVs are said to have brighter images and consume less energy than existing LCD and plasma models.

But analysts are concerned that SED TV suppliers, which do not even have large-scale production facilities at the moment, are likely to face an uphill battle in bringing down prices fast enough in the flat TV market, known for multi-billion dollar investments and steep price declines.

I know that there are a lot of you out there that think SED is nothing but vapor-ware, but if that is the case, why would Cannon and Toshiba both drag their reputation through the mud for something that they know they can't produce?

Just seems to me that both companies are confident that this will work.

Will my XBR960 last until SED finally comes to market?

In my opinion, the writing is on the wall now, SED has one chance and thats Samsung.


SED might be a perfect fit for Samsung because of all of their research on FED. Plus Samsung has partned with a Japanese eletronic giant before, just look at their relationship with Sony regarding LCD panels.


A Canon-Samsung SED alliance perhaps?

In my opinion, the writing is on the wall now, SED has one chance and thats Samsung.


SED might be a perfect fit for Samsung because of all of their research on FED. Plus Samsung has partned with a Japanese eletronic giant before, just look at their relationship with Sony regarding LCD panels.


A Canon-Samsung SED alliance perhaps?

Good call on Samsung for the two reasons you mentioned above. Don't forget number three: Samsung likes to have a horse in every race. They have no problem having both an LCD program and plasma program and at the same time still selling rear projection, so it wouldn't be a strecth to think they might go for SED. They actually seem to thrive on the internal competition. On the other hand, even if it does make it to market, it seems as though SED will be a niche product at first, serving TV studios and the like, before it goes to consumers. That doesn't seem like it fits Samsung's strategy.

The appeal to the original judgement could be a way for Canon to keep Samsung (and others) out of the game.

By Greg Tarr -- TWICE, 5/25/2007 6:50:00 AM

Tokyo — Toshiba and Canon sent out official notices Friday that they have postponed the launch of surface-conduction electron-emitter display (SED) TVs, which were originally planned to launch in the fourth quarter of 2007.

In a statement, Toshiba said “the decision is based on information provided by Canon, indicating that Canon will not be able to provide SED panels to the original schedule.”

Canon said Friday that “prices of flat panels are declining more rapidly than expected.” The company said it has to institute new production techniques to improve mass production efficiency.

Both Canon and Toshiba said they could not give a specific timeframe for the launch of SED TVs at this time.

Plans for mass production of 55-inch 1080p SED TVs — which are flat-panel sets designed to produce extremely high contrast, black level and color saturation levels — were dealt a blow, by Nano-Proprietary, a company that developed a key piece of technology that Canon was to license to produce the sets.

Nano-Proprietary claimed that Canon broke an exclusivity agreement by sharing information related to electron emissions from carbon nanotubes with Toshiba.

As a result of the suit, Toshiba ended its role as a equity partner with Canon in the SED production company in order to satisfy Nano-Proprietary's complaints.

Last February, a Federal Court ruled that Canon had violated its agreement with Nano-Proprietary by forming a joint television venture with Toshiba.

On May 3, a jury ruled that no additional damages beyond the $5.5 million fee for the original licensing contract were due

I still think I'll see pigs fly before I see a SED TV at Best Buy :cool:

Given the litigation with Nano-Proprietary it is unlikely that Samsing would jump on the SED bandwagon, but I wouldn't put it past them to do SED's cousin, which is FED.

More to the point, the next logical flat panel display technology may turn out to be OLED. About two years away from being practical in 30"+ sizes, but if you look at the news coming out of SID this week, there is a great deal of activity going on in that space.

More to the point, the next logical flat panel display technology may turn out to be OLED. About two years away from being practical in 30"+ sizes, but if you look at the news coming out of SID this week, there is a great deal of activity going on in that space.

This size OLED is still 5 years away and only in very small quantities.

http://www.digitimes.com/displays/a20070525PR202.html

I'm no longer amused by SED would be manufacturers Canon-Toshiba. Enough is enough!

Is FED's picture as good as SED's? Who's seen FED with their own eyes?

The Nano-Proprietary litigation and its aftermath may end up being one of the best things to happen to SED tech in general. Nano-Proprietary is now free to sign new contracts with various companies regarding patents for display technology. So instead of just Canon/Toshiba having sole rights, the pool of companies exploring its use might be increased.

Besides Samsung spending a lot of money on FED research, so has Sony.

SED is considered a FED technology because the technologies are so similar. So basicly all the companies that have poured money into FED have a chance to benefit from Nano-Proprietary's patents.

For those who seem to keep missing the obvious: Canon just stated that they have not yet developed the Mass Production Technology that would be required to produce a significant number of the product, at a reasonable production cost level.

Therefore, regardless of the Nano Patent Dispute, Canon/Toshiba has yet to develop a way to actually manufacture the bloody things!.


....

I am a FED-UP with all that has been SED about these new TECHNOLOGIES. I AM BUYING A GOOD OLD CRT.

No surprise on SED. Many on AVS predicted this a long time ago. Flat panel prices have been falling for quite some time while quality is rising. The latest gen Pioneer plasmas have been declared at least the equal to SED by those having seen both. So there's really no reason for SED's existence anymore. Too late to market.

Auditor must be in mourning.

Here's what Rogo said regarding the 8-G plasma when he saw it at the CES.

"How dare I report this isn't the second coming of display technology?
Some other things are clear: People who saw the blacks as disappearing into the bezel are either (a) confused (b) had their irises and visual perception system skewed in such a way that illusion existed for them or (c) are touting some phenomenon that just wasn't there. "


Now with the recent reports of the 8-G Plasma glowing, we can now confirm his observation.

Auditor, you continue to post just about the ONLY lukewarm review of the 8th gen Pioneers. An ISF calibrator just reported from the Paris show that the 8th gen Pioneer was unbelievable with blacks that DID blend into the frame. Those that have seen SED have reported the new Pioneers are absolutely, positively, on par with SED if not better. The "glowing" that you reported was from a poster who has been banned numerous times for his inaccurate and 'paid' posts to debunk anything Pioneer.

So let's be fair. Besides, it's pretty apparent that SED is now dead based on the latest news. Diversify your investments Auditor, diversify.

Will my XBR960 last until SED finally comes to market?

Only if it lasts forever.

I am a FED-UP with all that has been SED about these new TECHNOLOGIES. I AM BUYING A GOOD OLD CRT.

Good luck finding one. Especially the "good" part.

http://www.digitimes.com/displays/a20070525PR208.htmlAnother year, another delay with SED.


I know that there are a lot of you out there that think SED is nothing but vapor-ware, but if that is the case, why would Cannon and Toshiba both drag their reputation through the mud for something that they know they can't produce?Well remember that Canon has been investing in SED for over two decades and will be beating this horse long after it is dead. As for Toshiba they said that they will provide the displays when Canon provides the panels. Obviously that would require Canon to provide the panels.


Just seems to me that both companies are confident that this will work.Compared to the optimism they used to show I would not consider them even close to confident at this point in time.

To borrow a quote from Pulp Fiction...

"SED's dead baby...SED's dead."

You forgot the usual "Canon has never ever ever built a tv before..." crap. :rolleyes:


Canon just announced that they have not developed a Mass Production Technology to allow them to produce a SED product line.

As of this date, Canon has never ever manufactured and distributed TV sets for the retail market. Ah"Crap". If you weren't so busy rolling your eyes, you might not have stepped in it!. LMAO

I do however like their new, more accurate product slogan:

Canon HDTV Enterprises: SED as a Doornail!. :eek:

NASA is working on warp drive. I wonder when they perfect it if they will use SED?

Gesh....really got under your skin, ehh?


Deep cleansing breaths. ;)

Good luck finding one. Especially the "good" part.
YOUR RIGHT. I GUESS I JUST KEEP MY 6 YR.OLD SONY FOR AN OTHER :rolleyes: 6 YR'S. WHO KNOW WHAT MIGHT BE OUT BY THEN.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=852340

SED is dead, Fred for 2007.

Yeah that's pretty much it. My only hope for a big gaming monitor now rides on 120hz LCDs. Adieu!

I guess our only hope now is OLED.

Damn.

Can't say that I'm surprised, though.

Cheer up folks!

Now that false hopes have been cleared up (dashed to the ground and thrashed around), we can all move on to the real future, where OLEDs will not only trounce the unborn SED's technical attributes, but are in the process of being born onto the world stage as the successor to today's display technology!

The past was in the way but now its clear
the future is showing bright to-day without fear!
OLED will arrive to clear the drear
with purebrite colors to make us cheer!

With blacks like universal vacuum packs
it eats plasmas for lunch and SEDs for snacks!

Hooray hooray SED is dead, long live OLED in my bed!

Cheer up folks!

Now that false hopes have been cleared up (dashed to the ground and thrashed around), we can all move on to the real future, where OLEDs will not only trounce the unborn SED's technical attributes, but are in the process of being born onto the world stage as the successor to today's display technology!

The past was in the way but now its clear
the future is showing bright to-day without fear!
OLED will arrive to clear the drear
with purebrite colors to make us cheer!

With blacks like universal vacuum packs
it eats plasmas for lunch and SEDs for snacks!

Hooray hooray SED is dead, long live OLED in my bed!

Yep, 'fraid you are spot on the mark!:D I've been speculating just when OLED will produce a home theater size display...something in the neighborhood of 55"-65". Can you make an educated guess on a time frame?

OLEDs will not only trounce the unborn SED's technical attributes

Isochroma,
I think it could only be true if PASSIVE MATRIX is used. With the passive matrix, from what I can understand, an OLED tv would 'think' it's a CRT for the best motion :)
With active matrix, OLED will just be a glorified LCD with horrible 'sample and hold times'. The use of 120Hz is not good enough. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Yep, 'fraid you are spot on the mark!:D I've been speculating just when OLED will produce a home theater size display...something in the neighborhood of 55"-65". Can you make an educated guess on a time frame?

You are looking at 2015 for a competitively priced OLED in this size range, based on the recent projections from iSupply.

OLED technology to make minor inroads into TV market (http://www.digitimes.com/displays/a20070525PR202.html)

Isochroma,
I think it could only be true if PASSIVE MATRIX is used. With the passive matrix, from what I can understand, an OLED tv would 'think' it's a CRT for the best motion :)
With active matrix, OLED will just be a glorified LCD with horrible 'sample and hold times'. The use of 120Hz is not good enough. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Isn't the real problem with OLED technologies is that it is current driven instead of voltage driven. Doesn't this makes the active matrix much more complicated?

Isn't the real problem with OLED technologies is that it is current driven instead of voltage driven. Doesn't this makes the active matrix much more complicated? The real problem with OLED is lifetime. And yes this is due to it being a current driven technology. Lifetime is proportional to the current density through the EL material.

This is why "active-matrix" is so good for OLED lifetimes. It reduces the current density by allowing much longer emission times to achieve the proper brightness. The problem is that the motion video performance will be very poor.

Passive-matrix is the opposite. It has very short emmission times so in order to get high brightness you need very high currents which greatly reduce lifetimes. The benefit is CRT like motion video performance.

But would PM OLED have the same artifacts that PM LCD had? Seen a PM LCD lately?

But would PM OLED have the same artifacts that PM LCD had? Seen a PM LCD lately?LCDs and passive matrix were not a good fit for many reasons but one really stands out. Since passive matrix has very short emission times there is no where near enough time for the liquid crystals to respond. Active matrix solved this problem by giving the pixel a full 16.7ms to respond.

But for OLEDs, which have microsecond response times, passive matrix seems like a good fit. Now they can have very short emission times without worrying about response times. But, to get high enough brightness you need to crank the current up and lifetimes are reduced.

I think you people are treating poor old Auditor55 very badly. You know that each time you post something on here, about OLED, instead of on the OLED developments thread,he gets all excited about seeing that some new posts have been added to the SED thread. That gets his hopes up, and he rushes to read them, expecting to one day read that "The Cream Has Risen To The Top". Stop it please. Don't tease him like that. You are going to give him a heart attack!. ;)

....

Postponed indefinately doesn't mean dead. Within the next few much months we can get some new annoucements.

The anti-progress crowd sees that news as a victory, but it its not. As I said, the cream always rise to the top. The days of inferior display technology will come to end.

Auditor, there is something to be said about your unwavering optimism. :cool:

The anti-progress crowd sees that news as a victory, but it its not.


I am not sure you are aware, but the anti-progress crowd in not on this board.




As I said, the cream always rise to the top. The days of inferior display technology will come to end.

You simply stated the obvious .... And the sun will rise again tomorrow. Nothing new.

Postponed indefinately doesn't mean dead. Within the next few much months we can get some new annoucements.

The anti-progress crowd sees that news as a victory, but it its not. As I said, the cream always rise to the top. The days of inferior display technology will come to end.

You are absolutely right. Give Canon hell for being so virulently anti-progress. How dare they suspend all SED operations "indefinately", and how dare they admit that they have never even bothered to develop a "Mass Production Technology" that would be capable of manufacturing SED panels. When it comes to SED, you can not be more anti-progress than Canon. Perhaps your cream might have a better chance of rising to the top if you could persuade Canon to not keep their lazy, do nothing Arses sitting on top of it!. :D
...

Auditor 55:
Forever Vigilante. From The Ashes Rose The Phoenix.

Auditor, there is something to be said about your unwavering optimism. :cool:

Some would call it naive, but others would say it's symptomatic of not diversifying your investments. ;)

Audtior refuses to believe those that have seen the Pioneer super plasmas AND the SED demos and these same people said the Pioneers were every bit as good if not better. Sooo, that same SED picture that he longs for (both of which by the way, he hasn't seen) is coming in a plasma wrapper, but that's unacceptible to Auditor. :)

Heh, looks like this thread has been de-stickyed. Will Auditor55 use this opportunity to let the thread die so folks can forget what a fool he made of himself, or will he keep commenting every couple of days to keep them from forgetting about SED?

Heh, looks like this thread has been de-stickyed. Will Auditor55 use this opportunity to let the thread die so folks can forget what a fool he made of himself, or will he keep commenting every couple of days to keep them from forgetting about SED?

He will have to keep on dredging the "Cream" off the bottom, and keep on pretending that it is actually rising to the top. ;)

....

My impressions were similar to yours. In some scenes you could tell the black level was really improved but not overly dramatic.

After the reading the above comment regarding the so-called "SED" Killer, I had to post it here.

I have to keep the hopes of SED alive in those of who seek uncompromising PQ. It is evident from the above cited quote that, once again, plasma technology has failed to deliver.

I hope the folks at Canon, Toshiba or even Samsung find of a way of getting SED to market. LCD's are now out selling Plasma which is evident to me that display technology is regressing. If plasma is the pinnacle of display technology, which is supposedly evidenced by the new Pioneers, than display technology is not advancing it is indeed going backwards. :(

blinder boy is back. Seeing ONLY those comments which support his tightly death-gripped bias for SED, and nothing but SED. SED would experience exactly the same range of opinion as the new Pioneers are receiving now, as they too would be subject to the same vagaries of source, display room environment, etc.

Why does my spider sense keep tingling, telling me that Auditor55 is a major shareholder of Nano-Proprietary Inc.? :D

blinder boy is back. Seeing ONLY those comments which support his tightly death-gripped bias for SED, and nothing but SED. SED would experience exactly the same range of opinion as the new Pioneers are receiving now, as they too would be subject to the same vagaries of source, display room environment, etc.


Shouldn't you be at home enjoying your $8,000 dollar SED killer :rolleyes:

Why does my spider sense keep tingling, telling me that Auditor55 is a major shareholder of Nano-Proprietary Inc.? :D

I would never invest in backwards company like that.

I would never invest in backwards company like that.Finally Audi admits the truth. :rolleyes: It's all about his "killer" nest egg.

Originally Posted by Auditor55
PDP's are only getting better in your mind. PDP companies keep adding more pixels to fool the unlearned and naive into believing they getting better. Once again, plasma technology has reached its peak, they won't get significantly better than what we have now and that is why its time to move on to new technology.


I have to quote myself. I posted that back in January. Now here what I'm reading today, and I again quote;

My impressions were similar to yours. In some scenes you could tell the black level was really improved but not overly dramatic.

Also:

3 July 2007: LCD set to exceed plasma in flat panel TV sales

Plasma is now going to lose to LCD.

My words are so true. PDP is no longer markedly better than LCD and the world knows it. This is why I told you that plasma has peaked. Now if you were to put LCD technology next to SED technology, people would notice the superiorty of SED.

We need something new!!

LCD set to exceed plasma in flat panel TV sales
By Mariko Sanchanta in Tokyo

Published: July 3 2007 03:00 | Last updated: July 3 2007 03:00

Demand for flat-panel televisions larger than 37 inches is set to swing overwhelmingly in favour of liquid crystal display televisions rather than plasma TVs, the rival technology, according to a senior executive at Sharp.

Hirotsugu Terada, the head of Sharp's audio/video group, forecast that sales of large LCD TVs in Japan would reach 1.1m units in the half year from October to March 2008, compared with 478,000 units for plasma televisions.

In the past, observers assumed that plasma televisions would trump LCD TVs over 37 inches, as they are cheaper to manufacture and the picture quality was thought to be superior. But significant advances in LCD panel manufacturing efficiency, coupled with dramatic improvements in picture quality, are leading more consumers to choose LCD panels over plasma.

Although Matsushita Electric, better known as Panasonic, has announced plans to double production of its plasma display panel output capacity within two years, smaller players in the market have been suffering due to severe price competition. LG Electronics, the world's second-largest PDP maker after Matsushita, is struggling to reduce heavy losses at its PDP business. Recently, LG quietly halted production at one of its three domestic PDP lines as part of a restructuring.

Sharp, a leading maker of LCD TVs, expects global sales of its televisions to grow by 50 per cent to 9m units this year, up from 6m units last year. The company has already doubled production at its second factory in Kameyama, Japan, to 60,000 panels a month from 30,000 panels in January. Next year, ahead of the Beijing Olympics - a key event that will boost TV sales - Sharp plans to ramp up production to full capacity of 90,000 panels a month.

Sharp yesterday launched what it called the "thinnest" LCD TV ever, measuring just 8.1cm in screen sizes ranging from 26-52 inches. The Aquos-brand TVs will debut in Japan next month and in overseas markets by the end of the year, in time for the crucial holiday shopping season.

......zomg...NO U DITNT..

SED / PDP / LCD $$$$ TVs all front-ended by the cable provider's ubiquitous SA8300. :rolleyes:

I request this thread be renamed "The SED Zombie Thread."

It just won't stay dead.

Where's my wooden stake, holy water, and silver bullet?

Auditor, you need to find a good CRT-RPTV to hold you over. :)

SED uses yesterday's technology. Now we all want IOD (http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/32783/113/). Iron Oxide Display. I hear it's got better than 1 to 1 and will be available "soon." Before SED, anyway.

SED uses yesterday's technology. Now we all want IOD (http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/32783/113/). Iron Oxide Display. I hear it's got better than 1 to 1 and will be available "soon." Before SED, anyway.


Who would've thunk it?

Good ole rust changes color in response to magnetic fields...

Hopefully the fields need not be as strong as those in the MRI machines.

:eek:

SED uses yesterday's technology. Now we all want IOD (http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/32783/113/). Iron Oxide Display. I hear it's got better than 1 to 1 and will be available "soon." Before SED, anyway.

Better not put any speakers near it unless you're into some weird special effects.

Auditor, you need to find a good CRT-RPTV to hold you over. :)

Yep :D

Its amazing how folks are fooled into believing that crushed blacks are good blacks.

This thread is beginning to Suck Excellently Dude!

Can this thing just die like the technology itself? Why are we talking about LCDs and Plasmas in this thread?

Oh because there's no good SED news to talk about right? Oh well SED people. We'll always have CEATEC 2004 to remember.

Yep :D

Its amazing how folks are fooled into believing that crushed blacks are good blacks.

It is far more amazing that one person keeps his SED as a Door Nail fantasy alive. Real Black Plasma displays always trump Imaginary Displays. The Kuro blacks are far less crushed than your SED dreams. :D :D :D

Is it possible to self hand build a homemade 42" (or bigger or much smaller, whichever is easier) 16:9 720p or higher SED prototype tv for perhaps $20 - 30k using the right tools, microscopes, magnifying glasses etc, with off the shelf materials or making those vaccum cells and what not by oneself in a year? SED Inc. must have built that half a dozen or so tvs more or less by hand, right? I'm willing to learn.

Bulidng one by hand would basically be impossible, but I bet for 30k you could track down someone who got a prototype and they'd sell it for 30k.

Does that 30K include the roundtrip ticket to Canon HQ in Japan?

Bulidng one by hand would basically be impossible

Why impossible? As a scientific experiment, could an electronics hobbyist be able to build just one pixel in that or very similar technology? And then 2x2 array and so on, like a work of art? Thanks in advance.

Honestly I have no idea moreHD. But I do know that building a prototype isn't necessarily a small operation nor is it necessarily done primarily by hand. First there is a team of researchers building them. Each panel could be a man-year or more to build for all you know.

Also, small manufacturing processes are likely set up for various parts like the glass, the circuit boards, etc. Costs way more than mass-production per part but it's not like they solder entire circuit boards together by hand. Even getting those processes running could be on the order of tens of thousands, at least.

Then on top of that there's a whole suite of software needed to accept input signal, etc. Which requires lower millions to develop I'm sure. There's a reason why new consumer technologies can cost billions to bring to market... How much does Sony have into OLED now, and only has a few displays to show for it.

If you were an executive at Cannon and the project was turfed, would you let them be destroyed, sit in a warehouse, or possibly take it for personal use? I'm guessing that some people get them for personal use and paying one of them would be a LOT easier than trying to build one. Just a guess though.

Is it possible to self hand build a homemade 42" (or bigger or much smaller, whichever is easier) 16:9 720p or higher SED prototype tv for perhaps $20 - 30k using the right tools, microscopes, magnifying glasses etc, with off the shelf materials or making those vaccum cells and what not by oneself in a year? SED Inc. must have built that half a dozen or so tvs more or less by hand, right? I'm willing to learn.

:p :p :p ;)

It is far more amazing that one person keeps his SED as a Door Nail fantasy alive. Real Black Plasma displays always trump Imaginary Displays. The Kuro blacks are far less crushed than your SED dreams. :D :D :D


This is why keep my SED dreams alive.

Black Levels.
The Panasonic is the winner here, by the time you release the same detail on both the Pioneer is the lighter of the two, I really wasn't expecting that!!!!
The PH range has a much better black and detail retrieval than the Viera range and so does the Pioneer, but to get the Pio to match the Panasonic for absolute black you are crushing detail. This to me wouldn't be a problem and the difference is not much at all, but it is there and easy to see when they are next to each other.
I would always take a slightly crushed black that is black than a dark grey with all the detail there.

Until there comes a day where the above is completely removed from the discussion of display technology, I will continue to keep my dream alive.

Did you ever build a Heathkit (http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=135) computer? :)

Keep the SED flag flying high, Auditor! :)

I've held off buying a large flat panel display for years, hoping SED (or some other technology for that matter) would finally come around and save us from the fundamentally flawed technologies of plasma and LCD. It's not happening yet, and in the end I had to let the monkey on my back get his wish and I bought a plasma.

It amazes me that people actually come in here to ridicule SED. First of all it's obviously immature, but secondly, anything with a slightly open mind recognizes that plasma and LCD have and always will have fundamental problems. Shouldn't we all be pulling together to get the best display technology available?

Obviously plasma and LCD can be made better, but pushing these technologies to the limit is like putting a massive tuning job on your dad's Buick when we all could be driving Ferraris. It's just plain silly.

I can't wait for SED. I won't be first in line when (if?) they are finally released, but as soon as prices become reasonable (which they will have to become very quickly to be competitive) I will replace my plasma in a heartbeat.

Just my two cents while we're waiting for display technology that is lean, does not draw massive power, has no motion blur, has no burn-in/image retention issues, leaves the black-level discussion mute (how stupid is that anyway? That in 2007 we need to look for displays that are actually capable of displaying black. Stone-age if you ask me...), has no screen-door effect, has no problematic viewing angles etc.

Will SED be all this? I don't know, but I'm certainly willing to give it a chance.

When it comes to video technology I think history will judge this era harshly. We have sub-standard displays, and we have another DVD format war. Really, it's just ridiculous.

Jabba, I think most of us have seen SED as all promise and no product. It's gone on for years. We've watched Canon et al back away from promises. We've watched them in rather plain language admit there is no mass production plant for SED and will not be one (cancelled). They've talked about production for commercial uses, and we read people here keep talking like they'll be sold at retail to J6P. They've lost in court, and have no license to produce SED. Yet some keep saying it's still coming. And all this based on claims- NO ONE has ever independently reviewed or even examined an SED. It's both comical and sad. No one knows SED is even better, or what flaws it might have. Yet some insist it's the holy grail, without more than a shred of truth. Sure, it looked good at a couple of shows, under controlled circumstances and carefully selected subject matter. Lot's of "seemed good" initially products never lived up to the hype. It's sad to see someone fall so thoroughly for hype, convinced they have the absolute truth, based on claims, smoke and mirrors. This person is a sucker for the manufacturer or the con man.

No one "knows" it's the best technology available. Or, not available. We only know a few good glimpses and a lot of hype.

As to LCD. Now that LED backlit LCDs are coming to market, their black level problems are being greatly reduced. The LED backlight for a spot on the screen that is supposed to be black simply won't come on. Major improvement in black levels right there. Certainly this won't make LCDs a fantastic product with PQ to rival reality- but it is a major improvement. And mostly, I dare say, at the cost to plasmas.

The one fundamental problem SED has is NO ONE IS MAKING IT, AND NO ONE THAT WE KNOW OF PLANS TO.

Anyone would have to agree that is more of a problem that the ones alluded to for plasma and LCD.

I would have to agree.

SED = Stillborn Emission Device

What!. I checked back to catch up on all the breaking news on SED, and I find nothing new being reported. How can that be. Why are the true SED believers not staying on top of all developments. Pioneer did promise that they would have them for the next Summer Olympics. Does China know that Pioneer has decided to postpone the games indefinitely until they eventually decide to start producing SED panels!. ;)

[QUOTE=BizarroTerl]The one fundamental problem SED has is NO ONE IS MAKING IT, AND NO ONE THAT WE KNOW OF PLANS TO.

And sadly you seem happy about that.

Pioneer did promise that they would have them for the next Summer Olympics.

Yes they did promise to bring us back an inferior technology under the guise of a new technology with new technology prices. Give pioneer props, they're going to deliver on their promise.

Dream? When does that SED dream become an delusion? ;)

Dream? When does that SED dream become an delusion? ;)

Wrong tense.

its an adverb problem

Dream? When does that SED dream become an delusion? ;)I don't know when SED went from being a promising display technology to vaporware to an illusion... but if people would take off those rose colored glasses... the reality of it all should become crystal clear. :D

SED is our hope against the 8G cult and its high priest Ken Ross :D

http://www.rcvr.org/assoc/smom/images/Andrew_Bertie.gif

For the advancement of display technoolgy we must defeat him!! :) :)

SED is our hope against the 8G cult and its high priest Ken Ross :D

http://www.rcvr.org/assoc/smom/images/Andrew_Bertie.gif

For the advancement of display technoolgy we must defeat him!! :) :) :rolleyes: The tgif happy hour starts real early over there in Silicon Valley eh? ;)

Don't worry Auditor55... By the time SED ever got off the ground it would be Pio's 12 or 13G or maybe 40G, but it's all a moot point now anyways. In the immortal words of Bruce Willis "SED's dead baby. SED's dead."

Don't worry Auditor55... By the time SED ever got off the ground it would be Pio's 12 or 13G or maybe 40G, but it's all a moot point now anyways. In the immortal words of Bruce Willis "SED's dead baby. SED's dead."

Do you know that how old those "comical" SED lines sound? Auditor55 can always buy FED next year while waiting for SED. These displays benefit from advances in nanotech and it won't take many year to SED/FED manufacturing process to become commercially feasible.

Plasma has failed to deliver for so many generations already, what makes you think that the next generation would be any different? It's no wonder that manufacturers are struggling to get reasonable PQ out from tech that is fundamentally bad.

Do you know that how old those "comical" SED lines sound? Auditor55 can always buy FED next year while waiting for SED. These displays benefit from advances in nanotech and it won't take many year to SED/FED manufacturing process to become commercially feasible.

Plasma has failed to deliver for so many generations already, what makes you think that the next generation would be any different? It's no wonder that manufacturers are struggling to get reasonable PQ out from tech that is fundamentally bad.Here is the deal though... unless any new display technology is priced competitively with LCDs & PDPs right from the get-go... just as evidenced by all the hype that once surrounded SED... FED/OLED/WTFed will never make it to market.

99.99% of consumers could care less about anything other than their ability to tune into BB8 After Dark (http://www.bigbrotheruncensored.com/index.php?sid=g_524964158_%5Bbig+brother+8+after+dark%5D&gclid=CPay1sfbuI0CFQYuHgodWWG_GQ) and watch the antics of those crazy "house guests" on their 50" $899.99 :eek: HD Ready Vizio P50HDMR (http://www.onsale.com/shop/detail.aspx?dpno=7234564&store=onsale&source=bwbgooglesearch&wt.srch=1&wt.mc_id=bwbgooglesearch&gclid=CO6MkubauI0CFSgRGgod8kQsMQ). :)

Here is the deal though... unless any new display technology is priced competitively with LCDs & PDPs right from the get-go... just as evidenced by all the hype that once surrounded SED... FED/OLED/WTFed will never make it to market.

This is true and the reason why LCD wins. Thin as paper OLED HT sized displays could offer new benefits for consumers and thus could be priced a bit higher. OLED is already on the market.

OLED's already on the market?!?! GREAT!!! Could you please tell me where to buy a 60+" OLED display for less than $5000.00? Um, I didn't think so. Auditor, did you rename yourself as go81? :rolleyes:

OLED's already on the market?!?! GREAT!!! Could you please tell me where to buy a 60+" OLED display for less than $5000.00? Um, I didn't think so. Auditor, did you rename yourself as go81? :rolleyes:Sampo forgot the details, as usual, regarding OLED being on the market. They are currently used for cellphone displays (simple displays) and Sony will be releasing a 21"(size may be incorrect but it not over 25") OLED computer monitor.

Once OLED overcomes it's shortcomings, it will be superior to SED, FED, plasma, LCD, and especially LD LCD ;)

Here is the deal though... unless any new display technology is priced competitively with LCDs & PDPs right from the get-go... just as evidenced by all the hype that once surrounded SED... FED/OLED/WTFed will never make it to market.


I agree with go81, OLED technology does NOT have to be competitively priced right from day one. If it offers sufficient advantages, such as low power consumption, a perfect viewing angle, much thinner than LCD, environmentally friendlier, etc etc than it can find a niche spot in high-end homes and businesses as a luxury product. Slowly as the manufacturing process gets mastered, and the price per unit drops, it will move into the mainstream. OLED *is* a superior technology, and within 5-7 years I absolutely see it dominating over LCD/plasma.


Sampo forgot the details, as usual, regarding OLED being on the market. They are currently used for cellphone displays (simple displays) and Sony will be releasing a 21"(size may be incorrect but it not over 25") OLED computer monitor.

The first OLED television to be released by Sony is said to be 11", not 21", so certainly this technology is in its infancy. There is some debate in tech circles whether Sony will even be able to manufacture 1,000 of these TVs per month.

I think Sony said 11" OLED this year (whoops- 171 types faster than me). Not sure what the application would be. Displays, not TVs. And twenty some inches within the next couple of years. Major advances in OLED lately, but that's for a different thread.

SED never made it. Despite those with religious feelings about it, it never proved itself to have anywhere near the PQ ascribed to it. I agree with auditor55 in a quest for the absolute best PQ, at least while we wait for the holosuite. But faith in SED is misplaced. Especially with LED LCDs coming out with individual pixel intensity control- tiding us over until OLED arrives in force. More than good enough, even if not as good as SED is THOUGHT to be.

SED will be a footnote in display technoloby history, along with mechanical TV schemes. A good theory, but too late. Never developed fully, in time to compete with other, cheaper technologies that may be about as good or even better.

And don't get wrapped around the axle about SED being better than plasma. Many of us do not care for plasmas or see a bright future for them, but still recognize a dead SED when we smell one.

I agree with go81, OLED technology does NOT have to be competitively priced right from day one. If it offers sufficient advantages, such as low power consumption, a perfect viewing angle, much thinner than LCD, environmentally friendlier, etc etc than it can find a niche spot in high-end homes and businesses as a luxury product. Slowly as the manufacturing process gets mastered, and the price per unit drops, it will move into the mainstream. OLED *is* a superior technology, and within 5-7 years I absolutely see it dominating over LCD/plasma.



The first OLED television to be released by Sony is said to be 11", not 21", so certainly this technology is in its infancy. There is some debate in tech circles whether Sony will even be able to manufacture 1,000 of these TVs per month.Thanks for the size correction. It's too bad that they will only be available in Japan.

Once OLED overcomes it's shortcomings, it will be superior to SED, FED, plasma, LCD, and especially LD LCD ;)

NO, it will not be superior, because OLED suffers from motion blur like LCD does. I want FED, SED for tv, dvd type of watching! OLED will be good for a camera viewfinder, watches, cellphones, mp3 players. Even for a computer monitor I'd rather see LD-LCD advancements.
With LCD and OLED stuff really looks TWO DIMENSIONAL!!!, like a painting. I really don't need it.
Also I have a question; what will happen if LEDs are miniaturized and somebody builds a LED - only tv set. Would it be like a crt, plasma with a 3D depth feel to the picture, or very flat 2D feel. I think it's coming very, very soon, because stuff can really be miniaturized these days. Thank you.

NO, it will not be superior, because OLED suffers from motion blur like LCD does. I want FED, SED for tv, dvd type of watching! OLED will be good for a camera viewfinder, watches, cellphones, mp3 players. Even for a computer monitor I'd rather see LD-LCD advancements.
With LCD and OLED stuff really looks TWO DIMENSIONAL!!!, like a painting. I really don't need it.
Also I have a question; what will happen if LEDs are miniaturized and somebody builds a LED - only tv set. Would it be like a crt, plasma with a 3D depth feel to the picture, or very flat 2D feel. I think it's coming very, very soon, because stuff can really be miniaturized these days. Thank you.

OLED and LED LCD don't suffer from motion blur. LED LCD is superior to OLED in some ways like brightness. Brightness is needed for HDR displays. Actually IMLED and OLED should be looked as almost equal displays. Color gamut should be similar to Sony OLED. There are different types of OLED displays. Some have 1000:1 contrast and some 1M:1 contrast. These displays won't look two dimensional if glossy panel is used. LED only set looks like this:

http://www.spotvision.com/press/images/nasdaqwr.jpg

or

http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/editorial/cebit2007-3/luxio205_sm.jpg

I agree with go81, OLED technology does NOT have to be competitively priced right from day one. If it offers sufficient advantages, such as low power consumption, a perfect viewing angle, much thinner than LCD, environmentally friendlier, etc etc than it can find a niche spot in high-end homes and businesses as a luxury product. Slowly as the manufacturing process gets mastered, and the price per unit drops, it will move into the mainstream. OLED *is* a superior technology, and within 5-7 years I absolutely see it dominating over LCD/plasma.



The first OLED television to be released by Sony is said to be 11", not 21", so certainly this technology is in its infancy. There is some debate in tech circles whether Sony will even be able to manufacture 1,000 of these TVs per month.Given the slim profit margins generated from selling FP TVs to the average consumer, my belief is the projected ROI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_on_investment) likely to be achieved marketing expensive OLED displays to "a niche spot in high-end homes and businesses as a luxury product," won't provide companies with enough incentive to invest the billions of $ required to bring this technology to fruition.

Before I die let me go out looking at this :)

http://www.sed-fernseher.eu/images/canonSED.jpg

Before I die let me go out looking at this :)

http://www.sed-fernseher.eu/images/canonSED.jpg

Display perfection. 'Nuff Said.

Man thats pretty!


I want this thread to last for ever.

Display perfection. 'Nuff Said.

Looks more like a crappy picture to me... honest to God, Not saying anything about the TV inside the picture. Well maybe the shadow is a bit abrupt. And the greenery once again is totally oversaturated. Cripes perfection really isn't all that perfect.

Just "my opinion". And now apparently my opinion is I can "cross SED" off my list!

Before I die let me go out looking at this :)

http://www.sed-fernseher.eu/images/canonSED.jpg

That picture is probably about as close to looking at a Canon (or any other manufacturer's) SED display before you die. If you meant let you look at the picture... well you have it, so I guess you're good to go. :p

I had a Motorola Quasar 23-inch set with Instamatic in 1971 that puts the Canon SED in the toilet!

Before I die let me go out looking at this :)

http://www.sed-fernseher.eu/images/canonSED.jpg

So which flawed display are you looking at it through now. ;)

So which flawed display are you looking at it through now. ;)

ROTFL!!:D...I'm crossing SED off my list too, that pic looks terrible!

Yeah, and the bezel isn't very nice either. It's all skewed down in the lower left hand corner of the screen.

Before I die let me go out looking at this :)

http://www.sed-fernseher.eu/images/canonSED.jpg

This image reminds me of one of those painted pictures in which the artist is attempting to create the illusion that the painting is a photograph. They look good, and fool you for a couple seconds, then the reality sets in.

Likewise, this (apparently an actual SED image?) looks a little too fake to me. Can't believe anyone would actually post a picture of it thinking that others would be impressed. :confused:

52 Million HDTV Homes by 2008
Jul 20, 2007 - 8:16 AM - by MrNomas
52 Million HDTV Homes by 2008
The Digital Entertainment Group is attempting to push the industry faster towards the digital age and away from analogue signals, touting numbers that seem to show a sharp growth for HDTV across America. According to their statistics, more than 30 million U.S. households have one HDTV or more. The data comes from the Consumer Electronics Association who periodically surveys its industry members.

Around 4.5 million HDTVs were sold in the first half of 2007, a number that is around 50% higher the same period in 2006. The CEA is projecting equal and increased... [Read More]

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Wouldn't it be nice to know what percentage of them are SED sets!. :cool:

Auditor, how about going to the movies with the money you're saving on SED? You don't want to miss out on the best display technology (film) when it gets replaced by inferior digital. :) I am. I still lament the loss of 70mm films.

Auditor, how about going to the movies with the money you're saving on SED? You don't want to miss out on the best display technology (film) when it gets replaced by inferior digital. :) I am. I still lament the loss of 70mm films.

I love film. I go to the movies a lot. I Loved 70mm that need to bring that format back. The last film I watched in 70mm was Titanic with DTS sound and I was in cinema heaven.

I seen Fantastic Four Rise of SS in Cinema DLP. Cinema DLP is horrible, it sucks big time.

This image reminds me of one of those painted pictures in which the artist is attempting to create the illusion that the painting is a photograph. They look good, and fool you for a couple seconds, then the reality sets in.

Likewise, this (apparently an actual SED image?) looks a little too fake to me. Can't believe anyone would actually post a picture of it thinking that others would be impressed. :confused:

That picture reminds me of what I see with my natural own eyes. No overly sharp, artifical, oversaturated, cooked up to impressive the naive, picture. I can put that pic in building with no windows that's how natural its looks.

That picture reminds me of what I see with my natural own eyes. No overly sharp, artifical, oversaturated, cooked up to impressive the naive, picture. I can put that pic in building with no windows that's how natural its looks.You're kidding right?

This image reminds me of one of those painted pictures in which the artist is attempting to create the illusion that the painting is a photograph. They look good, and fool you for a couple seconds, then the reality sets in.

Likewise, this (apparently an actual SED image?) looks a little too fake to me. Can't believe anyone would actually post a picture of it thinking that others would be impressed. :confused:

Mark800s pictures are impressive. RPNYCs pictures are impressive. This painting small picture of SED? Embarassingly bad. If this is Auditor's idea of 'natural'. That is one dull world he's living in.

You're kidding right?

Nope. I hate all things that look fake. Note my commentary on Cinema DLP.

Oh! Let me guess, you probably think Cinema DLP is great and blows film away :rolleyes:

Nope. I hate all things that look fake. Note my commentary on Cinema DLP.

Oh! Let me guess, you probably think Cinema DLP is great and blows film away :rolleyes:

Colors are a little hot, but thats personal choice. A little tone down and booya :)

Mark800s pictures are impressive. RPNYCs pictures are impressive. This painting small picture of SED? Embarassingly bad. If this is Auditor's idea of 'natural'. That is one dull world he's living in.

You have to realize that SED can be the biggest flop ever and Auditor will swoon over it till no end. My opinion is SED will be the best PQ out there when it finally hits the market but the current talk of $10,000+ plus for a 50" display will probably hurt this product from ever being sucessful.

You have to realize that SED can be the biggest flop ever and Auditor will swoon over it till no end. My opinion is SED will be the best PQ out there when it finally hits the market but the current talk of $10,000+ plus for a 50" display will probably hurt this product from ever being sucessful.

Oh? 10,000 dollars eh? You mean half the price Auditor said the Pioneer Plasma 8g would sell for?

SED (if it ever is released) probably won't be much better than the plasma, LED panels, and LCD panels that will be on the market... if it's any better at all.

Here's pic of real life

http://www.nomosquitosystems.com/thumbnails/images/Evergreens.jpg

I want a display that brings me to as close real life as possible.

You can't improve upon real life. Don't try to make it better for the showroom.

I want my SED.

Couldn't resist. :D

http://img28.picoodle.com/img/img28/9/7/23/f_Evergreens2m_dfc8f4a.jpg

Couldn't resist. :D

http://img28.picoodle.com/img/img28/9/7/23/f_Evergreens2m_dfc8f4a.jpg

LOL!

Here's pic of real life

http://www.nomosquitosystems.com/thumbnails/images/Evergreens.jpg
What the hell?!?! I've seen stuff like that everywhere! Even the Sharp Aquos d62
in my local BB has a special feed to that TV that looks real to life with vivid, life-like
images (and that's not even their best TV). Heck, I've seen some scenes on a
Samsung LN-T5265F in the same store that are just as crisp and true-to-life. I think
folks are getting ridiculous when they think a lot of TV's aren't capable of such output.
Often it's a matter of TV calibration and source content. The bloody thing isn't going
to turn crap into gold now is it?

You know, in videogame forums, I always complain about screenshots vs. videos of
the damned thing in action. It's the motion and viewing conditions that often make
a TV fall flat. Instead of static images (that look amazing on my LCD monitor!), I'd
like to truly see the thing in motion. I admit many of these shots are nice and all,
and they seem to be pretty good indicators of shadow detail and such, but even
then there are variables that are affecting the true representation: Our computer
monitors, the camera, etc.

What's sad is that there's a video of the 70 inch Sammy LED (I believe it was that)
which didn't help at all since the camera wasn't able to capture just how nice the
TV truly is because the video feed was too low in quality. How about a nice hi-def,
HQ feed (kinda like some of those Movie Previews online) that shows off what a TV
can do? Now that would impress me more.

Here's pic of real life

http://www.nomosquitosystems.com/thumbnails/images/Evergreens.jpg

I want a display that brings me to as close real life as possible.

You can't improve upon real life. Don't try to make it better for the showroom.

I want my SED.

So you have an affinity for dead wood. It allows you to perform a mind meld, no doubt!. :cool:
..

It seems that this display suffers from a clouding issue! ;)

That grass is almost fluorescent green -- I highly doubt it looks that way in "real life."

That grass is almost fluorescent green -- I highly doubt it looks that way in "real life."

That was what I noticed first - the greens seem to be oversaturated.

Auditor55 - You're having a lot of fun with this, aren't you?

That grass is almost fluorescent green -- I highly doubt it looks that way in "real life."


Probably just a poor attempt by auditor to try to match the oversaturated colors on the sed screenshot :D

But i have no doubt phosphor based tv can produce those deep dark greens that other digital tv's seems to not be capable. They tend to look neon like above. But i'm not 100% sure flat panel lcd led whatever cant display it. I seen the sharp aquos and i was pretty impressed. Ocean scenes looked amazing and sking and snow scenes looked pretty good, but still some white crush i thought and some color anamolies in the white. I still give plasma the color edge on color purity but those flat panel lcd's look impressive.

It doesn't matter. On my CRT monitor it still looks florescent. And who knows what it would look like on an SED TV, if such a creature existed? We can only see the representation on our non-SED displays.

Here's pic of real life

http://www.nomosquitosystems.com/thumbnails/images/Evergreens.jpg

I want a display that brings me to as close real life as possible.

You can't improve upon real life. Don't try to make it better for the showroom.

I want my SED.Auditor55, I cannot imagine living in this fantasy world of yours... unless just like you, I have way-too-much-money and way-too-much-time on my hands! :p

I think what the posting of this picture represents is the subconscious acknowledgment by Auditor55 that he is so lost that he can no longer see the forest for the trees.

I have been following the industry SED news (but not this forum), and had pretty much written it off. That was a reasonable conclusion, given Toshiba's having to disengage, Canon's lack of display infrastructure, and all of the legal wrangling. Last weekend, though, I had a Japanese colleague and his wife over to my home. He recently flipped from agreeing with me to believing that SED was very much alive and would come on very strong soon. I respect his opinion a lot; he's well informed in this narrow area, and I now think there may yet be life in this technology.

Kevin

I have been following the industry SED news (but not this forum), and had pretty much written it off. That was a reasonable conclusion, given Toshiba's having to disengage, Canon's lack of display infrastructure, and all of the legal wrangling. Last weekend, though, I had a Japanese colleague and his wife over to my home. He recently flipped from agreeing with me to believing that SED was very much alive and would come on very strong soon. I respect his opinion a lot; he's well informed in this narrow area, and I now think there may yet be life in this technology.

Kevin

Hard to get accurate news w/fanatic folks spouting so much false info, but what you post was interesting. As you say , your friend was well informed...then what did he say in regards to the competing video techs of plasma & lcd improving to the point that matches SED, and their price points being so much cheaper than SED can even hope to achieve in the first few years of production, or the fact that just on the horizon is OLED that has cheaper production & can equal PQ??????

I have been following the industry SED news (but not this forum), and had pretty much written it off. That was a reasonable conclusion, given Toshiba's having to disengage, Canon's lack of display infrastructure, and all of the legal wrangling. Last weekend, though, I had a Japanese colleague and his wife over to my home. He recently flipped from agreeing with me to believing that SED was very much alive and would come on very strong soon. I respect his opinion a lot; he's well informed in this narrow area, and I now think there may yet be life in this technology.

KevinHow much saki did your Japanese dinner guest consume that evening? :D

What the hell?!?! I've seen stuff like that everywhere! Even the Sharp Aquos d62
in my local BB has a special feed to that TV that looks real to life with vivid, life-like
images (and that's not even their best TV).

Whatever you say Mac :rolleyes:

BTW, I have never seen motion blur in real life, not unless I was drunk :D

I have been following the industry SED news (but not this forum), and had pretty much written it off. That was a reasonable conclusion, given Toshiba's having to disengage, Canon's lack of display infrastructure, and all of the legal wrangling. Last weekend, though, I had a Japanese colleague and his wife over to my home. He recently flipped from agreeing with me to believing that SED was very much alive and would come on very strong soon. I respect his opinion a lot; he's well informed in this narrow area, and I now think there may yet be life in this technology.

Kevin

That's good news. As I said before, cream always rise to the top.

I have been following the industry SED news (but not this forum), and had pretty much written it off. That was a reasonable conclusion, given Toshiba's having to disengage, Canon's lack of display infrastructure, and all of the legal wrangling. Last weekend, though, I had a Japanese colleague and his wife over to my home. He recently flipped from agreeing with me to believing that SED was very much alive and would come on very strong soon. I respect his opinion a lot; he's well informed in this narrow area, and I now think there may yet be life in this technology.

Kevin

OK. We need to hear more details than that. What new information did he claim to have that made him "recently flip"?. You said that he now believes, but does he now have concrete information to buttress his new found belief?. You gave us specifics on why he believed that SED was dead. Please provide the specifics on why he now believes that it will be reborn. Thanks.

...;.

BTW, I have never seen motion blur in real life, not unless I was drunk :D
Really? Look at someone's wheels as you pass them, or as they pass you. :)

"Soon" is an evil word. Often turns into "never."

Did Canon Lose it's Appeals or did they just give up on the technology all together

Breaking News! SED is still dead!

Breaking News! SED is still dead!Generalissimo Francisco Franco is watching his SED right now. :p

Breaking News! SED is still dead!

And HD-DVD will placed right along side it :D

I'm absolutely convinced that you're not happy unless you've positioned yourself smack dab in the middle of some contentious technological debate. Perhaps a stint on your old high school or college debate team would have cured you of this affliction. I guess we'll never know now will we.

Auditor55,

This is intended as a serious question - I really would like to hear your thoughts.

What would you have us do? Let's say that all of us on this site were 100% on board the Auditor55 bandwagon - what action are you hoping that we all would take? Boycott each and every available technology to punish the manufacturers for not developing a potentially better technology? Stop watching TV and go picket the manufacturers until someone develops SED and makes it available? Please let us know exactly what it is you think we are failing to do.

I'm really truly and honestly trying to understand what you're trying to get us to do. Because it seems to me that almost all of us here are just seeking the best visual and aural experience available to us, and right now, at least for many here, that seems to be Kuro. Is there something wrong with purchasing and enjoying a Kuro panel?

[QUOTE=bananfish]Auditor55,

This is intended as a serious question - I really would like to hear your thoughts.

What would you have us do? Let's say that all of us on this site were 100% on board the Auditor55 bandwagon - what action are you hoping that we all would take? Boycott each and every available technology to punish the manufacturers for not developing a potentially better technology? Stop watching TV and go picket the manufacturers until someone develops SED and makes it available? Please let us know exactly what it is you think we are failing to do.

I'm not suggesting that you boycott all available technology, however I do believe you should have boycotted Blu-Ray and HD-DVD and hold out for a single format. Its silly that we have to go through format war. I'm just trying to get you to see that is you the consumer who has the power and not the other way around. Stop being passive!

Don't stop watching to TV, go out and by you a nice display. I purchased a Panny Plasma last year, so I have not stop watching TV. Buy your TV, but please don't come here and try to convince us that your current display technology of choice is equal to SED technology because its not, whether you can buy a SED display or not. PDP is an inferior technology to SED in ALL display technology categories, period.


I'm really truly and honestly trying to understand what you're trying to get us to do. Because it seems to me that almost all of us here are just seeking the best visual and aural experience available to us, and right now, at least for many here, that seems to be Kuro. Is there something wrong with purchasing and enjoying a Kuro panel?

The Kuro is a nice display, probably superior to most plasmas. But its still a plasma, its not SED technology. Nothing wrong with a Kuro, but don't twist your mind into believing that there will never be anything superior to it.

Auditor55, What would you have us do? Let's say that all of us on this site were 100% on board the Auditor55 bandwagon - what action are you hoping that we all would take?Curious very curious. Many AVS Forum members were on board with SED technology a couple of years ago. When it became apparent there was never going to be SED TVs on the retail store shelves anytime soon, we moved on. Why hasn't Auditor55? Better yet, why does this thread still exist?

Don't stop watching to TV, go out and by you a nice display. I purchased a Panny Plasma last year, so I have not stop watching TV. Buy your TV, but please don't come here and try to convince us that your current display technology of choice is equal to SED technology because its not, whether you can buy a SED display or not. PDP is an inferior technology to SED in ALL display technology categories, period.

OK, I'm following instructions so far ... I haven't made any claims about any technology being superior to SED.

And I haven't seen anyone else on this site make any such claim either. (What I have seen is people studiously refrain from agreeing that SED is superior without an SED panel on which to base such an opinion being released.)

The Kuro is a nice display, probably superior to most plasmas. But its still a plasma, its not SED technology. Nothing wrong with a Kuro, but don't twist your mind into believing that there will never be anything superior to it.

OK, so I'm still following instructions ... I haven't twisted my mind into any such belief - I actually feel 100% certain that whatever technology is available today will be surpassed in the future. And every year, it seems that proves to be true. I certainly hope that continues (and I feel 100% certain that everyone else on this site also hopes so).

And I haven't seen anyone else on this board express a belief that television innovation has come to a screeching halt either.


So it seems that I -- and everyone else on this site -- are following your instructions to a tee. Which seems curious given all the virtual ink spent arguing about SED.

Breaking News! SED is still dead!Generalissimo Francisco Franco is watching his SED right now. :p :D :D :D :D :D


And HD-DVD will placed right along side it :D
I agree with you on this one. But the competition has forced the baloney company to improve features and drop prices faster than they would have otherwise.

Kuro: Japanese, "ninth son" - additional subtext in their choice of names?

I'm sad about SED. :(

Curious very curious. Many AVS Forum members were on board with SED technology a couple of years ago. When it became apparent there was never going to be SED TVs on the retail store shelves anytime soon, we moved on. Why hasn't Auditor55? Better yet, why does this thread still exist?

You didn't move on, you lost patience and now you are settling for something else.

Also, we don't know what the final future of SED is. The technology is available its just needs to be implemented.

[QUOTE=bananfish]OK, I'm following instructions so far ... I haven't made any claims about any technology being superior to SED.

You haven't but Pioneer and various 8g cult members have.

And I haven't seen anyone else on this site make any such claim either. (What I have seen is people studiously refrain from agreeing that SED is superior without an SED panel on which to base such an opinion being released.)

SED is not about the panel itself, but the technology. Also, people have seen SED demo panels, display technology experts have examined the technology and have testified that SED must be seen to be believed , its just that incredible.

There was a gentlemen posting in one of the 8g threads that testified that he had seen SED, that person said he seen the 8g, he now owns an 8g, but he still said that SED has no equals.

Now of course this person was scorned, called troll and other kinds of nasty names by various 8g 'ers for his truthful testimony. 8g'ers fanaticism has no limits, beware of them.



OK, so I'm still following instructions ... I haven't twisted my mind into any such belief - I actually feel 100% certain that whatever technology is available today will be surpassed in the future. And every year, it seems that proves to be true. I certainly hope that continues (and I feel 100% certain that everyone else on this site also hopes so).

Plasma is not new technology, in fact plasma is dying a slow death and is being surpassed new emerging LCD technologies, who would of thunk that LCD would surpass plasma, however its happening.

And I haven't seen anyone else on this board express a belief that television innovation has come to a screeching halt either

Have you tallked to any 8g'ers lately :eek:


So it seems that I -- and everyone else on this site -- are following your instructions to a tee. Which seems curious given all the virtual ink spent arguing about SED.

I'm trying to do my little part in keeping the industry honest, by advancing and bringing forth exciting a new technologies to the market.

[QUOTE]
Plasma is not new technology, in fact plasma is dying a slow death and is being surpassed new emerging LCD technologies, who would of thunk that LCD would surpass plasma, however its happening.


Yes, how true.

But please just answer one thing: Why do you keep insisting SED is the best? We have no independent reviews or even examinations of a single unit. All we have are manufacturer's claimed specs (read any interesting contrast ratio claims lately?) and anecdotal reports made under controlled conditions. People are easily mistaken or fooled. Or something good doesn't hold up in the real world. You know this.

I'm trying to do my little part in keeping the industry honest, by advancing and bringing forth exciting a new technologies to the market.

No, that is called having Psychosis.
KURO is the best display tech on the market and you know this....but it just doesn't sit well with the alternate reality of the SED universe. :D

Doesn't anyone else find it ironic that the company that stood to gain perhaps the most from SED success is the one who killed it? By that I mean, the company with the particular patent that sued Toshiba/Canon. A simple settlement would have been best for all parties. Odd indeed.

You call it impatience, I call it living in the moment. I'm still waiting for my holodeck, flying car, transporters, and other cool technologies. Until then, I'll still enjoy my HD-DVD and BlueRay on my nice Pio plasma and I still drive my regular real car.

Think about it this way... what if you died the week before SED came out... it sure would have been a much better wait if you had something nice to keep you company along the ride...

Russ

You didn't move on, you lost patience and now you are settling for something else.

Also, we don't know what the final future of SED is. The technology is available its just needs to be implemented.

Doesn't anyone else find it ironic that the company that stood to gain perhaps the most from SED success is the one who killed it? By that I mean, the company with the particular patent that sued Toshiba/Canon. A simple settlement would have been best for all parties. Odd indeed.

They tried to settle. Canon was arrogant and forced it into court, where they got what they deserved. Canon tried to give the patent rights to Toshiba, and they did not have the legal right to do so. Toshiba wanted to settle out of court, but Canon insisted that they would win the case. I really do not have any confidence in a company which showed such poor judgment, to actually be up to the task of getting a brand new technology to market, particularly in a field which they have never before competed in.

8g'ers fanaticism has no limits, beware of them.

Oh, the irony! :eek:

KURO was best display tech on the market and you know this....but it just doesn't sit well with the alternate reality of the SED universe. :D

Corrected. Samsung 81 is shipping now. ;)

Kuro: Japanese, "ninth son" - additional subtext in their choice of names?

Actually, kuro in Japanese = black

Actually, kuro in Japanese = black

Using Firefox "Answers" where you alt-click a word, you get the "ninth son" bit. With a little googling, you can get that it also means "expert" so it probably has many meanings, depending upon context- maybe more than these 3.

Corrected. Samsung 81 is shipping now. ;)

Oh really?
Where did you see this superior tech exactly? ;)

Corrected. Samsung 81 is shipping now. ;)

Sampo alert.!.

Where did you see this superior tech exactly? ;)

I saw it being taken into custody for killing 8G! It was on local news!

Sampo alert.!.

sampo = GO81?

Buy your TV, but please don't come here and try to convince us that your current display technology of choice is equal to SED technology.



And I haven't seen anyone else on this site make any such claim..

Not referring to anyone in particular but there's always hidden agendas. Remember when ppl defended "to the death" that their LCDs didn't blur. They did blur substantially; its been proven. Buyer's remorse i learned is a powerful thing.

Wow, quite a few recent posts are off topic (as usual). You guys must be really
bored or something.

Wow, quite a few recent posts are off topic (as usual). You guys must be really
bored or something.

Sounds like that would include you, since you just added your own "off topic" post. Sorry to see that you "must be really bored, or something"!.:)