Is an External HDD possible w/ a DVDR? [Text View]

nextoo

10-13-06, 05:23 PM

I've been playing around with the Polaroid 2001G. I discovered that is was possible to do an easy plug and play HDD upgrade after reading the Polaroid thread on this forum. So I thought I'd give it a try. The Polaroid comes with an 80gb Western Digital drive. I was able to install a 200gb Seagate, a 250gb Western Digital, and a 500gb Maxtor.

My next step was to move the drives to the outside of the case. I thought making the storage removable would be pretty cool. So I ordered a two foot rounded IDE cable. With it still not delivered yet my impatience took over so I rigged the following today:

- a one foot ide ribbon cable fished through the case
- direct external power cable to power the HD drives
- 500gb Maxtor HDD
- 250gb WD HDD
- 80 gb WD HDD

Not pretty but it proves it does work. When the new ide cable arrives I will clean up the current installation. I also will add a removable drive enclosure to protect the drives.

Here are the pics:
1- the drives
2- the "rigged" IDE cable fished through the case (ugly I know)
3- one of the HDD's sitting on top of the SA8300HD cable box (it's running with the Polaroid).
4- The 80gb drive running the Polaroid
5- The 250 drive running
6- The 500gb running

The recording times shown are at SP (2 hour mode). The 250gb drive is almost full with 51 titles recorded to the drive.

I can pretty much add storage at will.

nextoo

10-13-06, 05:24 PM

The rest of the pics:

gondey99

10-13-06, 05:52 PM

Nextoo,
Thanks...great information.

bobkart

10-13-06, 06:09 PM

suplex

10-13-06, 06:11 PM

More than 234 Hours in SP Mode!!! Holy 500gb Hard Drive!

Boy am I thankful for people like you (nextoo) who experiment and then prove to us that it CAN be done.

I have a Pioneer DVR-640 with a 160gb HDD, and although it really has been enough, I might like to toy with upgrading it someday. However I think the Polaroid is known for "allowing" itself to be upgraded where I have heard that some other brands may not work or "lock" themselves if you try anything.

Also, with HDD's being less and less expensive these days, what a great upgrade you gave yourself with the 500gb HDD. Now you can just leave it on SP mode for good.

What does it give you on it's longest Speed with 500gb, like 3 months?

nextoo

10-13-06, 06:18 PM

Too bad more/all DVDR manufacturers don't use such an open architecture.

I wonder if it runs out of digits for the hours of remaining capacity with the larger HDDs and lower bitrates. I.e. will it show more than 999 hours?

The 500gb when in SLP mode (6 hr mode) slows 703 hours. Almost one month of continuous recording.

nextoo

10-13-06, 06:23 PM

nextoo

10-13-06, 10:11 PM

nextoo

10-14-06, 10:15 AM

bobr2k

10-14-06, 10:53 AM

Well here is another pic - some progress. I moved the hard drive (s) into an IDE enclosure. Still ugly but I was encouraged that the enclosure worked. I'm going to order a black enclosure which should look better.
For your next "mission", should you decide to accept it, find a way to download an index of all the titles currently recorded on the hard drive to a CD/DVD or output line to a PC for use in printing covers, inventory control, etc. -- This message won't self-destruct in five minutes :D
Bob R.

ACPewty

10-14-06, 11:35 AM

Newest update:

This configuration using the external drive case is hot swapable. By this I mean I am able to change HDD's while the Polaroid remains on. It is not necessary to power down the Polaroid when changing HDD's.That is very cool!! Almost makes me want to buy a polaroid because I believe to do something similar with my Pioneer 640 it is a lot more work and riskier...special remote required etc etc. I would love to have hot swappable HDDs for music compilations etc. Unlimited space and very convenient. Are you listening Pioneer, Panasonic, Sony et al?

Well done Nextoo...very brave.

nextoo

10-14-06, 12:32 PM

At $220 it is affordable. And it has the LSI Domino chipset so the PQ is excellent. It has no (very little) copy protection which is a plus for moving store bought DVD's to the HDD (analog transfer only). Plus it a tinkerers dream.

nextoo

10-14-06, 12:46 PM

For your next "mission", should you decide to accept it, find a way to download an index of all the titles currently recorded on the hard drive to a CD/DVD or output line to a PC for use in printing covers, inventory control, etc. -- This message won't self-destruct in five minutes :D
Bob R.

Great suggestions. Actually I'm going to try to read the drives under Linux. I can't read the drives under XP2. If I am able to read the HDD's then it would be possible to move the data off the HDD without having to burn to a DVD for PC editing. Only problem is I do not currently have a Linux distribution installed. Plus I haven't worked with Linux for a few years now.

nextoo

10-14-06, 06:38 PM

Minor update here.

I decided to format the drive that originally came with the Polaroid under XP2. The process went as planned. After allocating and formating the drive under XP on a PC I put the drive back into the removable enclosure and booted the Polaroid. The Polaroid recognized the drive. I was able to use the drive as normal. Record, delete, etc.

When I moved the drive back to the PC the drive was recognized. I had assigned the drive as letter Z under XP when I formatted it. This drive allocation was retained post Polaroid use. I thought I was almost home but even though the drive is recognized, when I open the drive window under explorer no files are listed. It is as if the drive is empty.

Getting closer. My goal here is to be able to move the hard drives to a PC so I can move and edit files. I want to eliminate the step of burning to an optical disc in order to get the files to a PC. Using this method I will be able to move huge files and not be hobbled by the 4.7gb barrier.

Close but no cigar.

Chris Ruhl

10-14-06, 09:08 PM

nextoo

10-14-06, 09:32 PM

I hate to ask you this, but anyway you could point me to the directions on how to do this.... The Polaroid thread has 21 pages of info and I can't seem to locate it doing a "Search this thread" method.....

Was it really as simple as a "Plug and Play"? :)

Yes. Plug and Play. Open the case. Remove the HDD. Put in your new HDD. Close the case. Turn on the Polaroid. That's it. Even I can do it.

Chris Ruhl

10-14-06, 09:36 PM

nextoo

10-14-06, 09:41 PM

Here's the first report as discovered by Dartman that the Polaroid is plug and play:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7739060&&#post7739060

I can only say I took advantage of Dartman's discovery. I will take the credit for finding out that the Polaroid is essentially copy protection free though.... :)

nextoo

10-14-06, 09:48 PM

I had the Polaroid at one time, took it back due to fan noise. How did you rig it up for an external drive? Sorry for the stupid question, but looked back at some of your posts in the Polaroid thread, and don't quite understand how you did it.

Something about a USB port on one of the internal boards?

Chris

It's not a USB connection. It's the IDE connection that the internal HDD uses. I ran a long IDE cable from this connection to outside the case. I then used a removable IDE enclosure. It is all explained above. When the IDE cable I ordered arrives and I finalize the installation I will put together a tutorial with pictures that explains it step by step and post it. It is actually dummy proof as you will see. If I can do it anybody can.

By the way you can also "down grade" the HDD :) . I found an old 40gb drive laying around that works fine too.

Chris Ruhl

10-14-06, 09:50 PM

Gotcha... thanks. Makes sense now... I was a bit unclear about the USB mentioned in the Polaroid thread..... appreciate it.

nextoo

10-16-06, 06:25 PM

Here's a few more pics:

1- unit with HDD removed. Easy deinstall only 4 screws.

2- new IDE cable installed

3. case closed

larrimore

10-25-06, 10:04 AM

Just wanted to say thanks for all of the info on this unit. Anyone with a Scientific Atlanta HD box needs a recorder with component inputs and this is by far the most interesting (notice I did not say best) one on the planet. I picked one up yesterday and may get a second this weekend.

Thanks

6volt

10-25-06, 10:10 AM

Larrimore, please elaborate on this SA HD box. Model?

Are you saying it can be used as a HDD recorder with component inputs standalone, in other words, in conjunction with say a Comcast Motorola STB?

With component inputs, are there any 5.1 or digital audio inputs?

Thanks
Tom

jmystikcfl

10-25-06, 12:32 PM

I don't know if they're all like that, but the SA 8300HD will only output widescreen via the component output. I thought I read somewhere else that the Moto box will output widescreen via the s-video, but I could be mistaken. Another way around that is to get a recorder that will allow you to manually set the 16:9 flag. My Sony RDR-GX330 does, but I haven't played it too much.

nextoo

10-25-06, 05:59 PM

Project is pretty much complete.

A word of caution on the HDD upgrade. I am having no problems with WD 250gb drives. I have filled and emptied them many time and have done a significant amount of editing with no problems. I am having some performance problems with a 500 gb Maxtor. I don't know if the problem is the brand or the size. At this point I have made a decision to only use WD 250gb drives. Plus the 250's are around $50 with a rebate or sale. The 500's are around $200. No brainer with removable capabilities. Also the 500's are almost too big from an organizational perspective.

Final pics:

1. 7 drive bays. I need more HDD's to fill them. :) The 8th is running with the Polaroid.

2. Hard drive enclosure running and recording. (black case on the right)

3. Another view.

FBI Agent

11-12-06, 09:25 PM

What model number was the 250GB Western Digital Hard Drive that worked?

nextoo

11-12-06, 10:03 PM

What model number was the 250GB Western Digital Hard Drive that worked?

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=42

This drive has 8 megs of cache - a "JB" model.

The "BB" model with 2 megs of cache should work too. The 80GB stock drive is a 2 meg cache "BB" model.

I've also used old generic 40GB drives with no problems. The only drive I had a problem with was the 500GB Maxtor.

FBI Agent

11-12-06, 11:15 PM

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=42

This drive has 8 megs of cache - a "JB" model.

The "BB" model with 2 megs of cache should work too. The 80GB stock drive is a 2 meg cache "BB" model.

I've also used old generic 40GB drives with no problems. The only drive I had a problem with was the 500GB Maxtor.

The cache size makes a difference in speed in a PC application. Will it matter for this DVD recorder? Would it benefit the player with a higher cache size?

nextoo

11-12-06, 11:18 PM

I have no I idea. I bought the cheapest one I could find. At the time it was the 8 meg cache model.

FBI Agent

11-12-06, 11:46 PM

I have no I idea. I bought the cheapest one I could find. At the time it was the 8 meg cache model.

What's the cache of the original HD in the Polaroid 2MB or 8MB?

nextoo

11-13-06, 12:20 AM

What's the cache of the original HD in the Polaroid 2MB or 8MB?

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=42

This drive has 8 megs of cache - a "JB" model.

The "BB" model with 2 megs of cache should work too. The 80GB stock drive is a 2 meg cache "BB" model.
I've also used old generic 40GB drives with no problems. The only drive I had a problem with was the 500GB Maxtor.

As posted.

FBI Agent

11-13-06, 12:36 AM

What's the cache of the original HD in the Polaroid 2MB or 8MB?

As posted.

My mistake. :o

thebard

11-13-06, 11:50 AM

Here's a few more pics:

1- unit with HDD removed. Easy deinstall only 4 screws.

2- new IDE cable installed

3. case closed

Nextoo... did you need to "butcher" the case when installing the new (rounded) cable? Or did it fish through pretty easily?

Do you still have an internal drive hooked up as well? (IOW, did you daisy-chain w/ a ribbon cable internally, & then extend outside the case?) Or does the Polaroid only see one at a time?

David

vincentnyc

11-13-06, 12:04 PM

why external since u using an ide cable? if it was a usb, it would be another case? y not put it internally for aesthic look?

nextoo

11-13-06, 02:59 PM

Nextoo... did you need to "butcher" the case when installing the new (rounded) cable? Or did it fish through pretty easily?

Do you still have an internal drive hooked up as well? (IOW, did you daisy-chain w/ a ribbon cable internally, & then extend outside the case?) Or does the Polaroid only see one at a time?

David

The IDE cable exits the case out of the side of the case. I was planing on using a dremel to make an access path bit did not need to. There is a slight bulge but I prefer it to hacking up the cover. The internal drive is removed.

nextoo

11-13-06, 03:02 PM

why external since u using an ide cable? if it was a usb, it would be another case? y not put it internally for aesthic look?

The external drive enclosure you see is a removable storage device. I have multiple drives that can be used with the removable IDE drive enclosure. Read the entire and then post if you have any questions.

sunnycrest

11-14-06, 02:34 PM

bobkart

11-14-06, 03:31 PM

Many people do not have their PC in their living room (or wherever the TV is). And even then, not all TVs can display a PCs output, without some conversion such as VGA->TV or a TV output card.

Your way is certainly do-able, I have an "entertainment" PC hooked up to my 52" HDTV with 2.1TB of external HDDs on tap. Can even play High Definition material. But depending on various tradeoffs, this route may or may not be the best way for everyone. Consideratins like ease of use for less technical people in the household may also enter into it.

nextoo

11-14-06, 05:29 PM

Wouldn't it be easier to stick a $100 tuner card in the PC and record on that? Between my 2 internal 400 GB drives and my five 250 GB external drives, I have 2.1 TB to record on. The video quality from my tuner card is equal to that of the DVD recorder. Since I do all my chaptering, authoring and editing on the PC, I save a step of writing to DVD and transferring to the PC. I use the Hauppage 150 card. If I were to do again I would get the dual tuner card. There are HD cards and now I hear there is an external tuner box with NTSC, ATSC and QAM all in the same $129 box.

Been there done that. I initially used the ATI capture cards and then moved to the Hauphauge 250. Two of them actually, still have them. I then used a Media MVP to interface them to my entertainment center. Then DVD recorders came out and I got lazy. I believe I mentioned before that I got real lazy. I spent so much time in front of a PC capturing, converting, authoring, etc, etc, that I finally said "uncle". Plus the setup I have now is actually able to be used by others. :eek:

nextoo

11-28-06, 07:49 PM

Latest modification. I decided to go external with the DVD burner. So now both the HDD and the DVD burner are external.

Advantages:

- with the external hard drive enclosure I have unlimited HDD space.

- moving a DVD burner (Sony) outside the case will extend the life of the Polaroid. I don't have to worry about killing the stock burner. It's still there just unplugged. Replacing the Sony external burner or with something similiar costs $30 - $40.

- it runs cool. With both the HDD and the DVD burner external the interior of the Polaroid runs with minimal heat build up.

- I'm giving the Polaroid power supply a break. Both the HDD and the DVD burner are powered externally. This takes a huge load off the Polaroid power supply which should extend its life.

Disadvantages:

- not sure yet because everything works fine.

I can snap a pic and post it. It looks pretty good.

zhenerale

11-29-06, 11:47 AM

Soon you'll be building your own DVD recorder. Put me on the list to be your first customer. :D

Thanks for all the info (though I don' have the Polaroid)

DLSDO

12-01-06, 12:06 PM

nextoo

12-01-06, 12:18 PM

Nextoo, Thanks for all the info.
Need some setup help. Plan to pick up Polaroid and configure with external burner/HDD. Currently have...

Moxi DVR
Sony DVD player
VCR
Yamaha AVR
Tosh72"

Here is my problem. I only have one component out on the Moxi DVR (connected to the TV) and 1 S-video out (connected to the VCR). No other video outputs. (DVI out is available but connection disables other outs). Can the component out be split? I want to work in the Polaroid to archive from the Moxi DVR, DVD player, and monitor the progress on the TV. Any suggestions?

I am not familiar with the Moxi but what I do with my DVR (SA8300HD that has only one set of componet outputs) is just insert the Polaroid into the current component cabling path. The Polaroid will pass through an HD video signal when turned off. No splitting is necesary. This is huge by the way for anybody with an HD source.

edit - Just make sure when you are using the Polaroid that you adjust your Moxi output to 480i.

DLSDO

12-01-06, 12:21 PM

Thanks for the fast reply! So then I assume you run Component out from the Polaroid to your TV?

nextoo

12-01-06, 12:22 PM

Thanks for the fast reply! So then I assume you run Component out from the Polaroid to your TV?

Yes this is a huge feature that for some reason the Polaroid can do. By the way I edited my last post.

It will also convert component to s-video.

DLSDO

12-02-06, 12:01 PM

Nextoo.
Will you please post some pics of your most recent modifications?
Are you able to archive your commercial DVDs to HDD and burn to disc without a PC setup? I plan to use the component video inputs on the polaroid as you suggested but I see it also has an optical audio input. Can I use this to feed my audio input to the polaroid or do I have to use R&W?
Went to a Walmart yesterday to buy the Polaroid and the "cupboard was bare"....the search is on...
Thanks for the help

nextoo

12-03-06, 12:41 PM

DLSDO

12-04-06, 08:58 PM

Nextoo
How is the external burner connected?

FullOnShred

12-05-06, 01:32 AM

Nextoo, you absolutely RAWK!!!!!!!! Kudos, Bravos, and Cheerios Mate!! Outstanding!!!

nextoo

12-05-06, 12:48 PM

Nextoo, you absolutely RAWK!!!!!!!! Kudos, Bravos, and Cheerios Mate!! Outstanding!!!

Thanks! Here's the next mod. I'll have to make a few IDE cables but it will work. I want to have male IDE connectors on the back panel of the Polaroid and I will install male IDE connectors on the external case pictured. This way I can just connect them via rounded IDE cables - it will look good and there will be no cables sticking out of the side of the Polaroid case. The external case will hold the removable HDD enclosure and the external DVD burner. Here it is:

DLSDO

12-11-06, 04:21 PM

Nextoo,
Dartman had been unsuccesful with an external burner. How did you get it to work? Which Sony burner are you using? Anything new with your current setup?

nextoo

12-11-06, 05:32 PM

Nextoo,
Dartman had been unsuccesful with an external burner. How did you get it to work? Which Sony burner are you using? Anything new with your current setup?

The answer to your question is here in the Polaroid thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8747797&&#post8747797

It works fine.

nextoo

12-12-06, 07:50 PM

Project completion - maybe :) . Unless I can figure out something else to do. Short answer is that I probably will. But here it is at this stage:

Pic 1 - Shows the HDD and DVD burner enclosure with the HDD drive not engaged. I currently have 8 HDD drives that can be used with the Polaroid. Storage is essentially unlimited. The HDD's are conveniently installed into trays like the one pictured. Just slide one out and then slide one in and it is a whole new world. The one pictured has the first two installments of the Lord of the Rings from TNT HD recorded in HQ (XP) quality - along with other stuff :) .

Pic 2 - Shows the SONY DW-Q30A DVD burner open and the HDD enclosure with a drive tray not engaged.

Pic 3 - Everything closed/engaged and ready to go.

DLSDO

12-12-06, 10:17 PM

Absolutely awesome!!!!!!!!!

What is the brand of HDD/DVD enclosure? I went shopping and am having trouble finding anything other than USB enclosures.

Both connected by rounded IDE still?

Did you have to dremel out the back?

Thanks for all your contributions and keep us posted

thebard

12-12-06, 10:30 PM

nextoo

12-12-06, 11:00 PM

nextoo

12-12-06, 11:38 PM

HDD IDE removable enlosure and trays are here:

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=GN210-BLK&cpc=SCH

Best price I could find and the quality is great. Cheap price actually. All in all it was a pretty reasonable project.

I should add that the fan in the HDD mobile rack is the same size as the fan in the Polaroid. I disconnected the fan on the drive rack because it isn't necessary. If I ever want to replace the fan in the Polaroid I have a spare in waiting. Although with moving the HDD and the DVD burner oustide of the Polaroid there really is no thermal buildup in the Polaroid to be concerned about.

gondey99

12-13-06, 12:33 PM

nextoo

12-13-06, 12:50 PM

Nextoo, nice work!!!!

You should have a TV show called pimp my dvd recorder :D

Haha. Thanks. Yes definately a pimp job. Here's the before and after. The before pic is the first attempt at an external HDD. The after pic is the external HDD with DVD burner. The after looks better I think.

DLSDO

12-15-06, 09:15 AM

nextoo

12-15-06, 10:02 AM

A little help please. Bought a used "e" unit. Just hooked it up and works fine..phew. Dove right in for the "Nextoo design" and ran into a few glitches.

My unit has an 80gb seagate that I connected to a 19" IDE dual cord and it wouldn't boot up. Works fine with a really short IDE but its obviously to short to exteriorize. Is it the cord length or the dual drive capability or both? What length do I need? I chose the flat IDE so it would fit out easier but does a rounded cord function better?

I had to run it out the back because my power to the drive is so short. Can I lengthen the power cord to the drive? How? Can I simply splice it and make it longer?

Thanks for the help

See this post concerning the IDE cable.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8669998&&#post8669998

Be careful with power. I used one of these:

http://www.emtcompany.com/products/adapters/usbide-usb-to-ide-adapter-cable.htm?gclid=CPbwsvfdlIkCFTzqJAodFjlnAw

Or a similar one. They are sold all over. The link posted was the first one I ran across.

It is a USB to IDE adapter but you only need to use the part that powers the drive - look at the picture, it's the power supply shown. It plugs directly into the HDD and then to the the power source independent of the Polaroid (wall outlet, power strip etc).

I chose not to use the power supply of the Polaroid for this. I didn't want to extend power outside the case. You may try it for testing but I would not recommend it long term.

nextoo

12-15-06, 11:43 AM

DLSDO - if i wasn't clear enough in my last post about the IDE cable you have to reverse the IDE cable where it connects to the Polaroid. Because of the "nub" that is present on most IDE cables this is not possible until you grind down the "nub". I used a dremel to do this. You can use a file or anything else that will get rid of it. Once it is removed attach the IDE cable into the IDE connector backwards - the way it was not possible when the nub was present.

DLSDO

12-15-06, 01:48 PM

Got it!! Used the dremel and now I'm up and runnin'.

Also like you said. MV is weak. From my motorola bmc moxi dvr's dvd player into the polaroid went lord of the rings without a hitch. My fan is quiet. Will get another remote.

Plan for the enclosure and external burner next. 1st I need to find some reasonably priced hard drives

Thanks again for all your help

6volt

12-15-06, 10:49 PM

Both IDE cables have 2 connectors for hard drives, right?

If yes, then my guess is that the long cable is bad.

DLSDO

12-16-06, 09:17 PM

I used a 19" standard IDE and dremeled the nub as noted above. Works fine at this length.

DLSDO

12-20-06, 07:59 PM

Anyone tried to connect 2 HD's via a dual IDE simutaneously? Nextoo/Dartman??

DLSDO

12-23-06, 02:54 PM

Nextoo,
Thanks for the above info. I have my HD's and burner external. I like the enclosure your using but I only have 5.75" of height to work with so it won't fit. I have searched for a double bay but all are about 6" tall. I remember your earlier modification had an single bay external enclosure. This would work as I have plenty of width to work with.

Which single bay enclosure did you use?
Were you able to easily swap out the HD's?
I assume you used an external power source as referenced above and an IDE-IDE hard connection from Polaroid-enclosure?

Anything new in your configuration?

Thanks

nextoo

12-25-06, 05:38 PM

DLSDO - if you look at the pics I posted prior to installing the 2 bay drive enclosure I just had the bare DVD burner and the IDE removable drive tray enclosure sitting next to each other vertically. It worked fine. You should be able to set one on top of one another with no problems horizontally. I used black duct tape to wrap the burner with which gave it a more finished look - no kidding it looked good. I powered both of them by using the power supplies that are included in those IDE to USB conversion kits. I think I posted a link for one similar to what I used.

DLSDO

12-25-06, 11:46 PM

nextoo

12-26-06, 07:29 PM

Ordered 6 IDE removable drive trays and 2 conversion kits from geeks.com for about $38 after shipping. I am really having alot of fun with your modification. I am looking to buy another polaroid. Will put it in another room and have it just in case. Thanks again!

Nice price. I see they marked down the kit price to $4.85 and the tray price to $2.99. It will not get more reasonable before they are gone.

SAH

12-27-06, 10:34 AM

Nextoo, I have been following this thread for awhile and have decided to do the "modification" as a way to record from Hi-def widescreen to my Polaroid, instead of buying the new Tivo.

I want to try and order all of the parts, but just want to confirm, that I understand exactly what I need. I am comfortable with taking apart a PC and installing boards or replacing drives, so I am assuming this won't be more difficult. My real concern is ordering the right parts for the job.

I noticed from the post above you can get the single enclosures and extra trays from the "geek" website. Would this require different connections than using the double enclosure you have in your pictures? Would the cables be the same, just 2 of them? I noticed in an earlier post a comment about using parts from a USB enclosure, is this still needed? Are there specific IDE cable requirements? (I did notice the post about having to "remove" a bump on the cable)

Is there any difference/benefit from one double enclosure for the HD and writer, than 2 single ones? (I am thinking of extra cabling or power supply requirements)

Since my equipment rack may be changing, I was thinking that the 2 single enclosures may be able to be placed on top of the Polaroid, instead of to the side. Would this work or would there be a reason to not do this?

Thanks in advance, your postings have been very helpful.

nextoo

12-27-06, 11:20 AM

I added the two drive enclosure to clean things up a bit. It is not required. What you suggest will work fine.

Parts list for both HDD and DVD burner:

1. 2 IDE cables at least 2 feet long. Rounded or ribbon. The HDD one needs to be modified by removing the nub and then reversed as posted previously. The IDE cable for the burner needs no modification. Use it as is.

2. 2 power adapters. I found these in the IDE to USB kits I mentioned previously. By using these you are powering both the HDD and the burner independent of the Polaroid - takes a huge load off the Polaroid power supply. The two drive enclosure I'm using now eliminates the need for these. Geeks sells these.

3. At least 1 IDE mobile drive rack and as many trays as you would like. These are cheap (the ones at Geeks) so I purchased more than I really need. For example if you decide to get a second Polaroid you can do this mod to the second one. You can then move the drives between units. Also altough I haven't built a Linux box in a few years - I plan on one soon. I wanted an extra drive rack for the Linux PC in an attempt to see if the recorded files are visable under Linux. It's was a no go with Windoze XP.

If you are simply looking to increase HDD capacity then adding the external dvd burner isn't necessary. The only reason I did it was because I could. I also thought it would eliminate the "failed burner syndrome" that tends to haunt DVD recorders regardless of brand. If you do just the HDD mod then just one IDE cable and power adapter is needed - it's not a bad way to start out.

It is simple, simple, simple. And easy.easy,easy. Only tool required is a Philips screwdriver and something to get rid of the nub on the IDE cable. I used a dremel.

Did I mention simple and easy? :cool:

SAH

12-27-06, 01:42 PM

nextoo

12-27-06, 05:44 PM

Thanks for the quick response. I think I have found all of the correct parts, but just want to check on the power adapter. I found this one at Geeks and wanted to know if it would work.
http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?InvtId=USB2IDE-N&cpc=RECOM

Finally, If I buy the extra empty trays now, are they trays that could be used in the 2 drive enclosure later on? I am not sure if these are "standard" items or are different for each manufacturer.

Yes that is it. Wow $5.99. That is really cheap. You just need the power adapter pictured to the right.

With the two drive enclosure you install the entire IDE mobile drive rack into one of the drive bays. The IDE mobile drive rack is designed to be installed into a computer case. So yes the trays will work with the rack installed. You can buy the two drive enclosure in the future if you want to.

Also, as far as the IDE mobile drive rack. You need the drive rack - it comes with one tray. You can purchase additional trays. The trays and racks are not standard. The are designed differently by manufacturers. Once Geeks is out it they may be harder to find. Especially at the price right now.

nextoo

12-31-06, 12:36 PM

Here's two more DVD burner replacements:

Sony DRU-120C (September 2006 build)

LG GSA-H10N (June 2006 build) Also an excellent replacement for Toshiba.

You can pick them up cheap at buy..com. After google checkout I think I paid $25 including shipping (shipping was free). You just need to get the order up over $50 to get $20 off.

I listed the build dates as reference. I don't think they are important.

Also you can record in one drive and finalize in another - across brands. Burn in a Sony and finalize in an LG.

This may be important if your burner goes and you have unfinalized discs laying around. The replacement should finalized them with no problems.

6volt

01-05-07, 02:18 PM

nextoo

01-05-07, 03:50 PM

6volt - very interesting. Here's my experience so far. I can set up an NTSF partition on an HDD under Windows XP. I can then install that same drive into the Polaroid. I can record to the drive.

I can then take that same drive back to Windows XP and the drive will be recognized as an allocated NTSF partition under disk manager (so the Polaroid didn't change the NTSF file system when installing the drive to the Polaroid). The drive also shows up under MY Computer. No files visible. When checking the properties of the drive if the drive was half full with recordings from the Polaroid it will show as half full under properties in Windows. I've adjusted under folder options for windows to show eveything down to the system file level. Still no Polaroid files.

Now I can take the same HDD under windows disk manager and unallocate the NTFS partition. Of course the warning "everything will be lost if you're crazy enough to do this message" appears. But even after removing the disk partition under windows when the drive is installed back in the Polaroid the recorded files are still there. They were not lost.

Also, a new drive fresh out of the box will work fine with the Polaroid while never even being near a Windows PC.

So is there a relationship between the Polaroid and NTSF? Perhaps. I really don't know. It's beyond my pay grade. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

z3scott

01-05-07, 05:38 PM

6volt

01-05-07, 05:42 PM

It sounds like Windows and Polaroid are able to use the HD firm ware, however, what is actually written on the drive is different.

IN PARTICULAR: Mention that Netware FS is much faster and hence used in Netware Servers is a hint.

Consider how the Polaroid HD files are accessed: streaming AND chase play. This is a very different priority from a PC platform - especially the streaming part which I suspect is true since error correction is of little importance when viewing video.

THEREFORE, the Polaroid probably has some file system that performs better for its application.

I think I have heard of pauses and frame loses on PC's from HD shenanigans. In particular, years ago, Maxtor or someone came out with an AV HD which did not do thermal recalibrations which totally screwed up a stream.

What might be interesting would be to see if it was possible to make a drive image of a Polaroid drive so that the entire drive could be copied. That would be a big help.
_____________

I lifted this small list of file systems. UDF sounds interesting.

What are file systems?

As I wrote in module 4a, drives are storage media, which can hold a file system. When a disk is formatted in a drive, it becomes organized and prepared to receive data. When we format a disk, it receives a file system .

Formatting can be compared to starting a library. You must install the book shelves and the catalogue system before any books are put in place. Once the library is ready, bring on the books! Similarly with a disk. When we format it, we "burn in" a file system to make it ready to receive data (files).

We can format with any one of several different file systems:

FAT
File Allocation Table is the original, old 16 bit DOS system is probably used in 90% of all PC’s. It is also called FAT16 contrary to:
FAT32
This is a new addition to FAT, which Microsoft introduced with Windows 95 B – the December -96 version (OSR2). The performance has been even improved with Windows 98.
HPFS
High Performance File System is from OS/2. It is an advanced 32 bit file system, which in all respects is far superior to FAT, except for possible usage. It can only be used with OS/2.
NTFS from Windows NT
A 32 bit file system like HPFS, but not compatible with it. NTFS can only be used in Windows NT/2000/XP. If it was available for use in Windows 95/98, it may be preferable to FAT and FAT32.
NetWare
NetWare is a server operating system from Novell. It has its own 32 bit file system. For that reason, the Novell server, contrary to NT or OS/2 servers, cannot be used as a work station. The file system is much faster than FAT, but it works only with Novell servers (typically file servers).
ISO 9660
This is for CDROMs and ISO 13346 for DVDs.
UDF
Universal Disk Format is for big capacity disks like DVD RAM. UDF is not directly supported by older versions of Windows , you need a driver.
UNIX
UNIX servers have their own filing system. Here the use of upper/lower case in file naming is significant. Read in the following pages about the concepts of these file systems.

6volt

01-05-07, 05:49 PM

ADDED THOUGHTS:

If a HD is designed to read and write a stream simultaneously, there is concern about the HD head alternating between the two drive locations.

If you consider a sector's position like hours of a clock, the access time from a 12 oclock sector to each of the other 11 hours varies with definite minimum(s) and maximum(s).

A special FS would probably store files such that you are always jumping from min to min and never make a max jump.

Notice on a PC when a HD gets completely full, if you write a file on that last fragmented space, the drive really slows down because it is doing a lot of max writes.

This never happens when you completely fill up a HDD DVDR unit.

Probably because of the FS.

I suspect the only way to access the Polaroid drive is thru data recovery software or some assembler programming maybe on a Linux platform.

But then again, doesn't TiVO use Linux???

________________________________

Oh No, just did a search on "streaming file system" and everything I said is probably true and much worse. In particular "ATSC Streaming File System" (ugh)

nextoo

01-05-07, 05:56 PM

I tried an Lite-On SHM-165H6S yesterday with only partial succes. Meaning the Polaroid didn't have problem starting up. The drive responded to the remote command to open and loaded a previously recorded (on the Polaroid) dvd. It showed the recording on it and started to play but stopped hanging with a frozen pic on the display, (the 2100G didn't lockup). I was able to unload the dvd fine. I also tried an actual movie (Thin Red Line) which I had watched previously on the Polaroid's existing drive and it hung at the FBI warning and would not advance past it. There also seemed to be a bit of macro blocking/pixellation.

I tried the Lite-On both as master and cable select also. The drive was brand new out of the box. I may have to order one of the Sony 120C that have worked for Nextoo and give it a shot. My unit is a 'G'.

Strike that on off the list then.

The 4 I've listed seem to have 100% compability. I would look to the Sony's I've posted or the LG. The BT is an older drive and probably cnnot be found.

I knew the LG would work because I put one in a Toshiba DKR2 a few months ago. I also tested it with the Polaroid and it worked fine. The first Sony I tried a couiple months ago just happened to be laying around too so I guess I got lucky. I was happy to see the newer model Sony worked too.

z3scott

01-05-07, 06:12 PM

Strike that on off the list then...

I was happy to see the newer model Sony worked too.
You gave the Sony DRU-120C a full test verifying all functionality, just to clarify b4 I pull the trigger on one from newegg?

TIA
Scott

nextoo

01-05-07, 07:25 PM

You gave the Sony DRU-120C a full test verifying all functionality, just to clarify b4 I pull the trigger on one from newegg?

TIA
Scott

Scott - the DRU-120C worked great. No problems. I can't say I did exhaustive testing over a period of weeks but it did not choke on any of the functions of the Polaroid. And the original Sony I have been using for over a month now has performed with no problems. You should be fine.

I wish I would have posted my results sooner. I picked mine up from buy..com. With google check (and a Farmers Almanac to get the price up to over $50) my net delivered on the Sony was $25. Price was the reason I decided to give it a try.

Post your results. It should perform flawlessly.

z3scott

01-05-07, 07:46 PM

Scott - the DRU-120C worked great. No problems. I can't say I did exhaustive testing over a period of weeks but it did not choke on any of the functions of the Polaroid. And the original Sony I have been using for over a month now has performed with no problems. You should be fine.

I wish I would have posted my results sooner. I picked mine up from buy..com. With google check (and a Farmers Almanac to get the price up to over $50) my net delivered on the Sony was $25. Price was the reason I decided to give it a try.

Post your results. It should perform flawlessly.
Thanks nextoo just wanted to make sure it ran disks w/o any hiccups such as the Lite-On had. I believe Lite-On is producing some rebadges for Sony and realize the 120C may not be one but that raised my concern. I have a few other drives mostly LO's and Nec's I might play with to see if they work. I do know someone perhaps, you tried some NEC drive w/o success though. I appreciate all the work you have done. I've been following the threads on the 2100G for quite awhile and have had good luck using mine. :)

I will update after getting my Sony as well. (I saw the deal you posted on 120's but was too late :()

I know you mentioned the build date but any chance you looked at the firmware version on the DRU 120C that you ran with?

nextoo

01-06-07, 11:17 AM

I just retested the Sony and everything worked as it should.

One thing to mke note of. When using a different burner you should not eject the tray using the button on the burner. You need to use either the remote eject button or the eject button on the Polaroid. If you use the eject button on the burner to insert a disc the Polaroid will not see it.

nextoo

01-06-07, 11:26 AM

Cancel your order for the Sony 120. It does not play commercial DVDs as it should. I'm going to retest the LG.

nextoo

01-06-07, 11:50 AM

Same problem with the LG. It does everything BUT play commercial DVDs.

Off the list too. Hopefully I didn't inconvience anybody by posting the two new burners.

The good list is the following then:

Sony DW-Q30A
BTC D33040

It may be tougher that I thought to find a compatable burner. I never thought playing a commercial DVD would be a problem.

The two that work I just happened to have laying around. It's making me now think that the odds were similiar to getting struck by lightening. There are others out there they just have to be identified.

z3scott

01-06-07, 12:03 PM

Cancel your order for the Sony 120. It does not play commercial DVDs as it should. I'm going to retest the LG.
Thanks nextoo luckily I ordered through newegg and it was a weekend. I got it cancelled np. :)

Can't remember if anyone has popped the cover off the existing drive to see what is in there. Maybe I'll have to do that.

I also wondered if the cable which appears to be a 40??? conductor ide might be the issue? I tried mine with a 80 conductor maybe if I tried the existing cable it would work or maybe they have the cable "customized" like the hard drive "bass ackwards" :D

Thanks for the update. I'll do some digging on my unit and report back too.

z3scott

01-06-07, 12:06 PM

Just saw your post on the other two drives are ok and the LG being a no go. I'm going hunting for the Sony DW-30A next.

SAH

01-06-07, 12:06 PM

Nextoo - If you are not planning on playing commercial DVD's from the Polaroid will the other drives listed work as a burner/ player for just the Polaroid created DVD's?

nextoo

01-06-07, 12:18 PM

Nextoo - If you are not planning on playing commercial DVD's from the Polaroid will the other drives listed work as a burner/ player for just the Polaroid created DVD's?

Yes no problems at all. I'm thinking the problem with playing commercial DVDs is a copy protection issue. That's all it can be. It is DVD burner related. I was able to play a pressed DVD I picked up in Hong Kong no problem. The new Sony and LG I mentioned will also play a DVD I ran through DVD shrink.

I'm convinced the problem is CP related at the burner level. Which means there probably is a work around. The two burners that work are older. Perhaps not affected by this.

nextoo

01-06-07, 12:32 PM

The answer is somewhere in here: :)

http://forum.rpc-1.com/viewforum.php?f=2&topicdays=0&start=30

z3scott

01-06-07, 12:52 PM

I wonder if it's just a region free firmware hack. Do those burners that have worked the Sony and BTC have hacked firmware by chance?

JoeM

01-06-07, 01:00 PM

Polaroid could just put a token 40Gb or smaller hd (might as well if people are going to upgrade to their choice), sell it for less and corner the market !

nextoo

01-06-07, 01:02 PM

I wonder if it's just a region free firmware hack. Do those burners that have worked the Sony and BTC have hacked firmware by chance?

No. Both have original firmware.

nextoo

01-06-07, 01:24 PM

Problem solved. The problem was new DVD burners out of the box do not have a region set. Take your burner to your PC. Play a DVD. Use Power DVD or something similiar. When you first put in the disc you will be asked to set a region. Do this as region 1. Now you're golden with the Polaroid.

It worked for both the Sony and the LG. They're back on the list!

Somebody say thanks please.

z3scott

01-06-07, 01:26 PM

Found the Sony on shop dot com 38 shipped we'll see when it get's here. Seems this drive is used in dup towers from my searching.

nextoo

01-06-07, 01:30 PM

I tried an Lite-On SHM-165H6S yesterday with only partial succes. Meaning the Polaroid didn't have problem starting up. The drive responded to the remote command to open and loaded a previously recorded (on the Polaroid) dvd. It showed the recording on it and started to play but stopped hanging with a frozen pic on the display, (the 2100G didn't lockup). I was able to unload the dvd fine. I also tried an actual movie (Thin Red Line) which I had watched previously on the Polaroid's existing drive and it hung at the FBI warning and would not advance past it. There also seemed to be a bit of macro blocking/pixellation.

I tried the Lite-On both as master and cable select also. The drive was brand new out of the box. I may have to order one of the Sony 120C that have worked for Nextoo and give it a shot. My unit is a 'G'.

Try setting the region as I just posted. I noticed you said the drive was new out of the box. I think you'll be fine.

z3scott

01-06-07, 01:31 PM

now I'm laughing my *ss off at myself. The Lite-on was fresh out of the box :D Oh well Ididn't want to use it since it was a light scribe anyway. :D I'll go set the region on it and test.

nextoo

01-06-07, 01:32 PM

Found the Sony on shop dot com 38 shipped we'll see when it get's here. Seems this drive is used in dup towers from my searching.

Great price but you may not need it. :)

I just read your light scribe comment - cool.

6volt

01-06-07, 01:47 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_file_systems

...for some reason, this reminds me of people who collect barbed wire...

Newbee Alan

01-06-07, 02:02 PM

Yes. Plug and Play. Open the case. Remove the HDD. Put in your new HDD. Close the case. Turn on the Polaroid. That's it. Even I can do it.

Is the burner swap that easy too ?

My burner is dead and I need to replace it yet I dont want to do it and void my warranty. BUT - I dont want to lose my HDD info of distance learning classes.

Thanks,

Alan

z3scott

01-06-07, 02:23 PM

Is the burner swap that easy too ?

My burner is dead and I need to replace it yet I dont want to do it and void my warranty. BUT - I dont want to lose my HDD info of distance learning classes.

Thanks,

Alan
The burner swap is easier. Or at least subbing another burner is. You will need something like the usb/ide adapters (mentioned in the thread with links) to provide power to the new burner since the power connection for the 2100g internal burner uses a non standard plug into the board for power rather than a molex that the new burner has. I'm using a spare power supply that I have jumpered to be on., but also have the other power adapter as well. You will need a longer ide cable which you hook up the blue end to the ide connector on the motherboard (obviously removing the existing one running to the internal drive) and connected to your replacement. I would suggest disconnecting the power to the internal dvd just follow the leads to the connector running through a ferite core. It just pops out.

The lite is working nextoo now! I'll have to try burning/editing to make sure all functionality is there. I will provide more updates.

nextoo

01-06-07, 02:51 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_file_systems

...for some reason, this reminds me of people who collect barbed wire...

Amazing. I think we'll eventually figure it out but right now I feel like I am in a haystack.

nextoo

01-06-07, 03:02 PM

Is the burner swap that easy too ?

My burner is dead and I need to replace it yet I dont want to do it and void my warranty. BUT - I dont want to lose my HDD info of distance learning classes.

Thanks,

Alan

It's simple. Here's a pic on an old circa 2003 BTC running with the Polaroid. All you need to do is unplug one IDE cable from its socket. Plug in a longer one that goes to the back of the burner. And power the burner.

cliff45

01-07-07, 01:03 AM

DLSDO

01-07-07, 01:29 AM

z3scott

01-07-07, 07:35 AM

z3scott

01-07-07, 07:47 AM

My testing of a Lite-On SHM-165H6S so far since setting the region has gone great. It has played back all pressed and burned dvd's and I have burned two dvd's w/o issues. I haven't had time to do any extensive disk editing/chapters etc but it seems the region set will allow us to use any drive.

When I have some more time I'll try to throw on a couple more different drives to make sure. I also have at least one drive that is region free so I might need to check if that causes an issue.

Thanks nextoo ;)

nextoo

01-07-07, 10:54 AM

Hello All-

Anyone thought of converting the IDE interface to SATA?

geeks has one, it's the "A-IDE2SATA-20330 SATA to IDE converter", about $11.00+shipping

eSATA is very clean-looking cabling, and can support long distance cabling as well. "hot-swap is supported by some chipsets, too.

Also, are the Poloroid 2001G units still being sold, or have they been discontinued?

It could work. But like was posted previously it looks like it might be too tall to sit in the Polaroid case. The cable runs look like they would be great though.

I went regular IDE because I already had some IDE drives available. Also I wanted a disconnection point between my external case and the Polaroid. With IDE I could use IDE gender changers. These allow me disconnect the external case completely from the Polaroid. Other wise I'd be fishing a cable out of the Polaroid and then fishing the same cable into the drive enclosure. They would literally be joined at the hip - very unwieldy. Now it's IDE cables out of the Polaroid - IDE cables out of the external enclosure. Then connected with the gender changers. Makes things clean.

BUT having an SATA cable running out of the Polaroid would be great. It would make hooking up an external SATA drive enclosure very easy! Especially for retail off the shelf external SATA HDDs. For multiple drives you could swap SATA enclosures. With IDE I swap the drives using drive trays into the IDE mobile rack. I think an SATA setup may be better understood and as a result more acceptable.

Looks like SATA could be a great idea.

Polaroids are still being sold but I think it is just existing inventory. Hit or miss in finding one.

jonlowe

01-10-07, 12:03 PM

Nextoo,
You can also make the new drive RPC1 rather than RPC2, as they come. Go to www.rpc1.org, and they have tools to make your new drive region free. Liteon drives and Sony drives OEM'd by Liteon are particularly easy to do since no new firmware is required. There is a simple program, called LtnRPC.exe, that changes the drive to an RPC1 drive. Takes about 5 seconds when the new drive is hooked up to a computer. The Polaroid unit itself still needs to be made region free, if you so desire, and those instructions are as follows:

Power on the DVR
Press Setup (stay at the first menu that appears)
Press 9-8-7 (you will get no indication that anything is happening, other than the hand with a slash thru it on screen, as you press the buttons)
Press Add/Clear
Press 0
A screen will appear saying the region code has been set to 0
Press Setup

To be clear, if you want your 2001G to be region free overall, both the new drive and the 2001G itself have to be region free. Making the drive region free just negates the need to "set" a region before inserting it into the Polaroid. A region free drive will work whether the 2001G is region free or not.

Jon

Problem solved. The problem was new DVD burners out of the box do not have a region set. Take your burner to your PC. Play a DVD. Use Power DVD or something similiar. When you first put in the disc you will be asked to set a region. Do this as region 1. Now you're golden with the Polaroid.

It worked for both the Sony and the LG. They're back on the list!

Somebody say thanks please.

DLSDO

01-10-07, 12:41 PM

After setting the Polaroid to region free does it remain so after powering off then back on?

jonlowe

01-10-07, 12:54 PM

Yes.

Jon

After setting the Polaroid to region free does it remain so after powering off then back on?

DLSDO

01-10-07, 01:49 PM

Nice..Re: Region free

BTW. Has anybody seen any good deals on 250gb HDDs lately?

nextoo

01-10-07, 06:42 PM

Nice..Re: Region free

BTW. Has anybody seen any good deals on 250gb HDDs lately?

pricewatch.com is probably one of the better places to check. It's good with commodity type products.

buy.com had WD250's for $65 delivered after google checkout lat month. That's a very good price for WD. I took advantage of it.

JoeAngelicchio

01-14-07, 01:18 PM

Great thread Nextoo!!!!
Are these Polaroids available still at WalMart? Has anyone attempted this on any Toshibas? I really like the way your setup looks and works Nextoo!!! Might attempt it myself.

DLSDO

01-14-07, 04:37 PM

pricewatch.com is probably one of the better places to check. It's good with commodity type products.

buy.com had WD250's for $65 delivered after google checkout lat month. That's a very good price for WD. I took advantage of it.

Got another one at Newegg ~$70 delivered

newone88

01-14-07, 05:52 PM

I can't seem to find this unit on sale anywhere. Walmart is out.
Any other place to by this from?
Dose it up convert dvds to 1080p and 720p?
Also, is this the only recorder with HDD that people had sucess upgrading the HDD?
Thanks

nextoo

01-14-07, 06:24 PM

Only Walmart sold them. They are becoming very hard to find.

No upconvert. Just 480i/480p

newone88

01-14-07, 06:49 PM

Thanks Nextoo. Are you aware of any other DVD recorder with upgradable HDD like the poloride?
Thanks

ccgw

01-15-07, 04:12 PM

Here's the case. Cheapest I could find. Most are double the price. It is a SCSI enclosure but this one is cheaper because it does not include the SCSI cables.

http://www.censuspc.com/product.php?productid=637

The IDE male connectors are here:

http://www.pccables.com/cgi-bin/orders6.cgi?action=Showitem&id=ID477819&partno=01810&search=MALE&rsite=pccables.com&rcode=

You have to be careful with IDE. There should not be too many connections or excessive cable lengths. Right now I still have the rounded IDE cables coming out from the side of the Polaroid case. I have the HDD removable drive enclosure and the DVD burner installed in the external SCSI case as pictured. Two IDE cables exit the SCSI case out the back panel with male connectors. The rounded IDE cables from the Polaroid are then connected to the male IDE connectors.

Here's a much more expensive alternative for the IDE cables:

http://www.mycableshop.com/itemdesc~product~Ide+40+Pin+Internal+Idc40+Male%2FMale~ic~GC 40MM.htm

Hi Nextoo,

Simple question: I am considering externalizing the HDD with the IDE IDE cable that you are using. Where did you get that? The link you provided above was for a male IDE connector; is that only for the SSCI box that you are using? Would any IDE IDE cable do the job?

I was checking out the removable tray IDE drive enclosure box at Geeks.com; one has led and fan, the other none. I have read that you disabled the fan because it wasn't necessary. Is that because the enclosure is now external? IF that is the case, maybe I can get the one without the fan???

Many thanks.

nextoo

01-15-07, 04:30 PM

Hi Nextoo,

Simple question: I am considering externalizing the HDD with the IDE IDE cable that you are using. Where did you get that? The link you provided above was for a male IDE connector; is that only for the SSCI box that you are using? Would any IDE IDE cable do the job?

I was checking out the removable tray IDE drive enclosure box at Geeks.com; one has led and fan, the other none. I have read that you disabled the fan because it wasn't necessary. Is that because the enclosure is now external? IF that is the case, maybe I can get the one without the fan???

Many thanks.

Everything you say is correct. The short male/male IDE cable was used to create a disconnection point between the external enclosure and the Polaroid. When I was using just the external IDE removable drive rack I didn't need it because the drive rack is light and easy to handle and has the IDE connector right on the back. I disconnected the fan because when using the drive rack externally there is little thermal build up. It was unnecessary. Also, any IDE cable will work as long as it is long enough for your application. You just need to grind down the "nub" and reverse the cable when using it for a HDD.

redjr

01-17-07, 03:19 PM

Just an off the wall thought about not being able to see the stored files on a PC:

The Netgear NAS "toaster" SC101 is like that:

SC101 uses SAN File System (SFS) and is not compatible with NTFS, so knowing the differences in file system will help prevent problems on SC101. Others say it uses the Zetera-Filesystem. Maybe these are the same.

What is interesting is that the Netgear is really not a NAS because it only talks to Windows PC's w/installed drivers. Well... that wasn't really what was interesting... What IS interesting is that they DID NOT use a popular file system even when it is clear that the utility of the unit would benefit if they did.

They may have done this because of patents/royalties (guessing), but probably driven by costs. So maybe they shot for the lowest cost solution.

Maybe Polaroid did the same thing.

Maybe the Polaroid HD's would be recognized by the SC101.

Now, wouldn't THAT be amazing.

Tom
________________________________________________

PS. Still reading up on 2001G and is the following is still true?: 1) can't see HD content on PC, and 2) no way to move content directly from one HD to another HD.

PPS. Has anyone tried contacting HD recovery outfits to see if they know anything (of course, they may be very tight lipped.) Of maybe they would offer to convert the HD content for a small fee.
Tom,

I just happen to have an SC101 sitting on my desk(unused at the moment). Your idea got me to thinking.... Actually, I prefer the NDAS system(NetDisk) used by Ximeta. While it may not be a 'true' network drive, it's close enough for what I use my home gigabit LAN for and my main puter doesn't have to stay on when I'm away. All the puters in my home are WinXP based anyway, and I've installed the NDAS client software on the machines that need to access the drive. I recently bought 2 more Ximeta enclosures (RadioShack was having a sale on them before Christmas) for future use. You can now install your own drive. My first NetDisk included a 160Gb drive. BTW, these enclosure could be easily modded and used with the Polaroid I would think - sans the included interfaces. I like nextoo's external black enclosure though way better. :D

I picked up one of the last Polaroid 2001Gs left in my area(WalMart) Christmas Eve. A present to myself. I had been sitting on the fence for a long time, and just decided to do it. Wasn't sure exactly how I was going to use it, but this thread of nextoo's has given me much inspiration!

Back to your thought on the SC101.... The only thing Polaroid left off the 2001g was an Ethernet port. The inclusion of that would have sealed the deal for me a long time ago. My problem is the lack of time to tinker. I travel for a living and am gone 4 days a week, so all my family and hobby time gets compressed into 3 days! :eek: Anyway, the SC101 case could easily be modded with a cable coming out the back and used with the Polaroid. The form factor is perfect too since it is small and includes it's own power brick. Two 500gb drives would give you a tera-byte of external storage. I can already see the possibilities. Now if we could get the Polaroid to recognize the Ethernet port - that would be sweet indeed, but I don't see that happening... We can dream can't we? Looks like I've got a project for the weekend. :)

DLSDO

01-17-07, 03:31 PM

Tom,

I just happen to have an SC101 sitting on my desk(unused at the moment). Your idea got me to thinking.... Actually, I prefer the NDAS system(NetDisk) used by Ximeta. While it may not be a 'true' network drive, it's close enough for what I use my home gigabit LAN for and my main puter doesn't have to stay on when I'm away. All the puters in my home are WinXP based anyway, and I've installed the NDAS client software on the machines that need to access the drive. I recently bought 2 more Ximeta enclosures (RadioShack was having a sale on them before Christmas) for future use. You can now install your own drive. My first NetDisk included a 160Gb drive. BTW, these enclosure could be easily modded and used with the Polaroid I would think - sans the included interfaces. I like nextoo's external black enclosure though way better. :D

I picked up one of the last Polaroid 2001Gs left in my area(WalMart) Christmas Eve. A present to myself. I had been sitting on the fence for a long time, and just decided to do it. Wasn't sure exactly how I was going to use it, but this thread of nextoo's has given me much inspiration!

Back to your thought on the SC101.... The only thing Polaroid left off the 2001g was an Ethernet port. The inclusion of that would have sealed the deal for me a long time ago. My problem is the lack of time to tinker. I travel for a living and am gone 4 days a week, so all my family and hobby time gets compressed into 3 days! :eek: Anyway, the SC101 case could easily be modded with a cable coming out the back and used with the Polaroid. The form factor is perfect too since it is small and includes it's own power brick. Two 500gb drives would give you a tera-byte of external storage. I can already see the possibilities. Now if we could get the Polaroid to recognize the Ethernet port - that would be sweet indeed, but I don't see that happening... We can dream can't we? Looks like I've got a project for the weekend. :)

Please report your findings!
Thanks

nextoo

01-17-07, 04:14 PM

Really great stuff - thanks!

I looked at one HDD I use with the Polaroid using PartitionMagic and the drive shows as unallocated. Works great with the Polaroid. It does not show up as a drive under Windows XP.

I looked at another HDD I use (with the Polaroid) and this one shows as an NTSF drive. I had set up an NTSF partiton on the drive a while back when testing and continued to use it as such. This drive shows up under My Computer. Under properties it shows the proper size and also shows 71GB used - which is correct, there are recordings on the drive. But it shows no files on the drive. I've set up folder options to show everything down to the system file level. Still nothing.

Both the unallocated drive and the NTSF formatted drive work fine with the Polaroid.

Not sure what this means but I thought I'd report it.

DLSDO

01-17-07, 04:25 PM

You guys are really leaving me in the dust with all this computer tech talk.

Ultimately though my take is that we can't get the HDD recognized anywhere other than the polaroid..true?

Keep workin' on it please as this would be an unbelievable asset!!!!!!!!
Thanks

mike1061

01-21-07, 11:56 AM

I just wanted to say thanks for all this.
I have been working around the clock, and missed this whole thing.
Thanks Mike

blimey

01-27-07, 09:55 PM

nextoo

01-28-07, 07:51 AM

Do any of the compatible aftermarket dvd burners (listed in this thread) fit inside the polaroid case? If they wouldn't fit straight away, maybe if the aftermarket burner was dismantled somewhat? I want to repair a polaroid unit but I really don't want the dvd burner to be external.

The OEM burner is a standard size DVD burner. So a replacement should fit right in there. I have not done this on the Polaroid but on other DVD recorders the procedure is something like this:

1. Eject the DVD tray. Remove the front face plate. This allows you to remove the drive from the case.

2. Pull the power plug and the IDE cable from the drive. Remove the drive.

3. Remove the face plate on the replacement drive.

4. Install the new replacement drive into the recorder. Hopefully the bracket screws line up. And hopefully the drive tray lines up properly with the front of the machine. They usually do. Plug in the power cable and connect the IDE cable.

5. Eject the tray on the new drive. If you can do this manually fine. If not power up the recorder to do this.

6. Install the face plate on the front of the ejected drive tray. This could be the toughest part and might require a bit of customization to fit right.

The good news is I don't think you'll have to dismantle the replacement burner at all. It should fit right in.

lightsluvr

02-08-07, 08:26 AM

DLSDO

02-08-07, 09:17 AM

Just out of curiosity, will the WD2500 fit in the same place as the WD800 inside the Polaroid 2001G? Could it be an exact replacement inside the unit???
Will the Caviar SE version of the WD2500 work as well?
Thanks.

LL

As long as it is a standard IDE HDD it should fit inside in place of the stock HDD.

Be careful as to the capacity of the HDD as described by Nextoo earlier in this thread. I think he was successful up to and including 320gb but had troubles with 500gb. Please search for the specifics.

I use WD250gb HDDs. They can be picked up for a reasonable price at Newegg.

sunnycrest

02-08-07, 03:11 PM

Has anyone tried swapping burners in anything other than the mentioned Polaroid? I have a couple problematic Panny machines that don't like most discs put in them, maybe a burner swap might fix the problem.

mickinct

02-10-07, 09:32 PM

Hello 2001g Fans ,there Is Usb. On The Main Board Inside Of The Unit, Does Anyone Have A Wiring Diagram For Usb Config. ??

nextoo

02-10-07, 09:38 PM

Hello 2001g Fans ,there Is Usb. On The Main Board Inside Of The Unit, Does Anyone Have A Wiring Diagram For Usb Config. ??

Yes there is. But it is not enabled in the firmware. The main board that the Polaroid uses is also used by other DVD recorders released in other countries under other brand names. Some of those recorders have USB capabilities as part of their feature set. But not so with the Polaroid.

Packard Bell, Eltax, Denver being just a few.

DLSDO

02-10-07, 10:27 PM

I wanted to rearrange some movies on my HDDs. I have 2 Polaroids. I transferred from one to the other by component connections flawlessly.

Way to much fun!

My wish list includes..
-Burn to DL
-View the HDDs on a PC
-High speed dub from one Polaroid to another

Back to reality....great little unit nevertheless!

richsale

02-11-07, 07:06 PM

nextoo

02-11-07, 07:15 PM

I'm new to this so please bear with me.
Best I can tell the following is what I need to set an external HDD to my Polaroid.

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=F3G523-19INCH-DT&cat=HDD

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?InvtId=USB2IDE-N&cpc=RECOM

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=GN210-BLK&cpc=SCH

http://3btech.net/wediwd25at72.html

If I have something wrong please help me out.

Yes. What you list will do it. Maybe order extra drive trays for extra hard drives if you want to add them. I think you can order just the trays without the rack. You'll need two right out of the box. One for your new 250GB and one for the original 80GB that you'll be pulling out of the Polaroid. So you'll be up to 330GB - and counting..... :)

richsale

02-11-07, 07:27 PM

Thanks Nextoo for the quick reply. I appreciate your help very much. Now to get things ordered.

nextoo

02-11-07, 07:34 PM

Thanks Nextoo for the quick reply. I appreciate your help very much. Now to get things ordered.

Only thing to add is remember you will need reverse the IDE cable which means you'll have to grind off the positioning "nub" of the new cable. Pay attention to pin one - the red line side of the cable. This is posted earlier in the thread.

DLSDO

02-12-07, 10:28 AM

wajo

02-12-07, 10:38 AM

Does anyone know if the HDD from the Polaroid can be swapped with another brand of DVDR and viewed??

My reasons for asking

- I would like to take the Polaroid HDD and plug it into another DVDR that has more advanced editing capabilities. I want it to be simply plug and play. I think this may be feasible.

- I would like the other DVDR to have DL recording capabilities in addition. This is not likely.
If the drive has DL capability and it gets its instruction from the drive, not the DVDR, it might work. I haven't read anything that explains whether onboard DVD burners need the DVDR to do its job once you instruct the machine to make a DVD copy. If the drive takes over, and just reads data from the HDD or incoming stream, why not? Sounds like a good thing to test?

If the DL writing instructions have to come from the DVDRs firmware, prob. not a chance since DL writing is more complex...the original firmware would have to be built to write outward from the hub on the 1st (top) layer, then reverse direction and write from outer edge to hub while focusing the laser slightly farther onto the 2nd (bottom) layer. Most likely the DVDR and burner designers prob. didn't add that more complex writing scheme into the orig. firmware for either.

DLSDO

02-12-07, 10:49 AM

The DL capability is not likely since the firmware would have to be able to write in the normal manner, hub out to outer edge, then reverse that to write from outer edge back to the hub while pointing the laser slightly ahead to reach the 2nd layer. Doubt they included that more complex routine in the original firmware.

Makes sense.

I suppose my only option for DL recording based on my setup is burning to standard disc and loading it onto the computer.

If I can achieve the first part of my question above I would be pleased and I think its possible. I think Polaroid records in "VR" so a similar unit that has a swappable HDD might be compatible.

DLSDO

02-12-07, 10:53 AM

If the drive has DL capability and it gets its instruction from the drive, not the DVDR, it might work. I haven't read anything that explains whether onboard DVD burners need the DVDR to do its job once you instruct the machine to make a DVD copy. If the drive takes over, and just reads data from the HDD or incoming stream, why not? Sounds like a good thing to test?

We were posting at the same time. I think Nextoo has tried a DL external burner on the Polaroid without success. But if I could get the HDD recognized in another DVDR with this capability then it might work.

The problem is finding a DVDR that has a swappable HDD, that can recognize the Polaroids HDD and that has DL burning capabilities.

Any ideas?

DLSDO

02-12-07, 10:56 AM

I changed my mind...please read my edited post...it just might be possible, depending on which firmware contains the writing instructions.

I got ya. See my edit above also.

nextoo

02-12-07, 11:20 AM

That's a tough order to fill. The Polaroid is not DL capable. I did see a post where the HDD can be swapped with the Philips 3455 but you won't gain anything on the editing side.

You can high speed dub Polaroid discs to the Accurian and this does offer better editing (file merge for example) but the Accurian does not have DL capabilities and cannot do a rate conversion dubbing from the HDD to disc.

You can dub Polaroid recordings to the HDD of the Toshiba XS series. And then edit and merge files. You can then do a rate conversion dubbing back to disc in order to fit to one disc. But this is time consuming.

Biggest problem is once you split a recording on the Polaroid you can't merge it back together on the Polaroid.

I think your strategy of an analog copy from one Polaroid to another is a good strategy. Yes there is a generational loss. But your original recording is in HQ from a HD source. And your analog copy is via component. I bet the quality looks pretty good. You might try recording the copy in SP mode that will fit on a disc. Test the quality. This my be easier for a movie for example.

Another thing you might want to consider is making your original recording at a quality that will fit on a disc. SP for example instead of HQ. I use both HQ and SP depending on what I am recording. If I know I want to have portability I'll use SP or SP+. The quality is still very good. I use HQ for things I know I want to archive to the HDD. For example I did an HQ recording of the extended versions of LOTR. I edited out the disc changes ( 6 discs total) and ending credits and now have something like a 11 hour continuous recording at HQ backed up to a HDD. Sounds crazy I know but it was one of those because I could things.

DLSDO

02-12-07, 12:25 PM

[QUOTE]You can high speed dub Polaroid discs to the Accurian and this does offer better editing (file merge for example) but the Accurian does not have DL capabilities and cannot do a rate conversion dubbing from the HDD to disc.

Will the Accurian recognize the Polaroids HDD if swapped?

You can dub Polaroid recordings to the HDD of the Toshiba XS series. And then edit and merge files. You can then do a rate conversion dubbing back to disc in order to fit to one disc. But this is time consuming.

High speed or real time? What is a rate conversion dub?

Biggest problem is once you split a recording on the Polaroid you can't merge it back together on the Polaroid.

Agreed

I think your strategy of an analog copy from one Polaroid to another is a good strategy. Yes there is a generational loss. But your original recording is in HQ from a HD source. And your analog copy is via component. I bet the quality looks pretty good.

Yes. It was hard to tell the original from the copy. The picture was a little softer but close. The copy is real time, obviously, so a bit time consuming.

You might try recording the copy in SP mode that will fit on a disc. Test the quality. This my be easier for a movie for example.

Another thing you might want to consider is making your original recording at a quality that will fit on a disc. SP for example instead of HQ. I use both HQ and SP depending on what I am recording. If I know I want to have portability I'll use SP or SP+. The quality is still very good. I use HQ for things I know I want to archive to the HDD. For example I did an HQ recording of the extended versions of LOTR. I edited out the disc changes ( 6 discs total) and ending credits and now have something like a 11 hour continuous recording at HQ backed up to a HDD. Sounds crazy I know but it was one of those because I could things

I was worried I might lose alot of quality but I bet this approach looks as good if not better than the Polaroid <--> Polaroid dub and is faster. The problem is that you have to know ahead of time what you going to do with the movie.

nextoo

02-12-07, 04:31 PM

DLSDO

02-12-07, 04:50 PM

I have not even opened the case on the Accurian yet. But my thinking is that the HDD swap is more involved. Similiar to a LiteOn 5045 swap. Dubbing a polaroid disc to the Toshiba HDD is in real time. Rate conversion dubbing allows you to burn a file that is too large for one disc onto one disc. The Toshiba transcodes the file down to the right size - rate converts.

Alright. Thanks for the Toshiba link BTW.

-With rate conversion is there a quality loss? I assume the answer is yes but is it discernable? This also helps solve the lack of DL issue.

-Your audio out from the Polaroid is R+W to the Toshiba? Optical out also from the Polaroid to your AVR (or TV)?

nextoo

02-12-07, 05:51 PM

- Yes there is a PQ loss when using rate conversion dubbing. It depends on how much the bit rate reduction is.

- I run one analog audio out of the SA8300HD to the Polaroid and a second analog audio out of the SA8300HD to the TV - the SA8300HD has two analog audio outputs. I then run analog audio out of the Polaroid to the Toshiba. I also run digital audio out of the Polaroid to the TV. My TV allows me to assign the digital audio to a specific input - I assigned it to component input #1 that also has the analog audio from the SA8300HD running to it along with the component video from the Polaroid.

When the Polaroid is powered off the TV gets the audio directly from the SA8300HD analog feed and the component video passes through the Polaroid to the TV.

When the Polaroid is powered on the digital audio from the Polaroid to the TV becomes dominant and over rides the analog audio feed (from the SA8300HD to input #1 of the TV). As mentioned above I have the TV component input #1 set up with two audio feeds - the analog from the SA8300HD and the digital audio from the Polaroid. Being able to assign a digital audio input to different video inputs is a feature of the TV.

With the Polaroid powered off the Toshiba gets a passthrough of both audio and video because I have s-video running from the SA8300HD to the Polaroid (in addition to the component mentioned above). The s-video and analog audio pass through to the Toshiba with the Polaroid powered off - a normal feature of the Polaroid. HD channels are letterboxed but SD channels operate as they should because the video is passing through the Polaroid as s-video (in and out).

When I power the Polaroid on and choose the Polaroid's component input the component to s-video conversion kicks in to the Toshiba and I get a full wide screen 16x9 image to the Toshiba. Also any CP issues that might effect the Toshiba go away. For example I can't record ON Demand without CP kicking in with the Toshiba. With the Polaroid powered on I am able to. The Toshiba is hooked up the the TV via HDMI.

I have seven input choices with my TV so I have a lot of options. For example I have COAX out of the wall to the TV so I can get high def to the TV via its QAM tuner. And a couple other components hooked up to it. I decided on this setup because it requires no A/V switch box, matrix switch, etc. Most components as well as viewing choices are controlled with a universal learning remote - the inexpensive Sony VL600. My concesion right now is I'm not taking advantage of digital audio out of the SA8300HD to the TV.

DLSDO

02-12-07, 11:38 PM

Quite a setup Nextoo. Thanks for the post.

I have read of the controversy about DVD fade or whatever they call it....Is it bad media or just an unpredictable DVD life. This is in part why I like the external HDD setup. Should there be any worries for HDD storage life?

z3scott

02-13-07, 07:42 AM

DLSDO

02-13-07, 09:40 AM

Well I went and did it. I bought one of the KX50 units... another learning curve to go through :D

Back on topic: I found a case for the hardrive mod utilizing the nextoo geeks hdd swappers here (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817145151).
The mobile rack fits nicely and because the rear panel of the case is easily removed I put the ide cable from the 2100G directly into the rack (duh) then attach the molex power of the Mapower rear panel to the rack and although the rear panel will not fit back into its original slots the way the top of the case is tightened down the rear panel has enough "lip" to be held securely when the top is back on. No need for the usb/ide converter power supply and you just flip the power switch on the rear panel to fire up the rack. The Mapower is all aluminum too very solid.

I have my dvd drive in one also but I'm having some issues it seems with the power plug possibly. One caveat using it for a cd/dvd drive is that the molex is a bit short. I used a fan molex extension to give it enough length. I'm going to open this one up and convert to the hdd racks for the second 2100G coming from eslay and then see if it is a bad power connector or what is causing the dvd drive issues I'm seeing (the dvd drive doesn't seem to power up properly and the polo won't start).

Congrats on the KX50 purchase. I will likely be right behind you. Did you go eslay or direct?

You are not using the USB for anything on that rack right? Are you able to easily swap out HDD trays with this setup? I just use a basic IDE enclosure hard wired to the Polaroid and am able to easily swap out HDD trays without having to unplug anything. I have been getting my WD250gb HDDs @ Newegg. My I fill them fast.

Which burner did you end up getting? I have not done the burner mod yet but I think I will have to as one of my burner sounds like a mack truck! Looking forward to alittle faster burn also.

nextoo

02-13-07, 02:52 PM

Well I went and did it. I bought one of the KX50 units... another learning curve to go through :D

Back on topic: I found a case for the hardrive mod utilizing the nextoo geeks hdd swappers here (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817145151).
The mobile rack fits nicely and because the rear panel of the case is easily removed I put the ide cable from the 2100G directly into the rack (duh) then attach the molex power of the Mapower rear panel to the rack and although the rear panel will not fit back into its original slots the way the top of the case is tightened down the rear panel has enough "lip" to be held securely when the top is back on. No need for the usb/ide converter power supply and you just flip the power switch on the rear panel to fire up the rack. The Mapower is all aluminum too very solid.

I have my dvd drive in one also but I'm having some issues it seems with the power plug possibly. One caveat using it for a cd/dvd drive is that the molex is a bit short. I used a fan molex extension to give it enough length. I'm going to open this one up and convert to the hdd racks for the second 2100G coming from eslay and then see if it is a bad power connector or what is causing the dvd drive issues I'm seeing (the dvd drive doesn't seem to power up properly and the polo won't start).

Thanks for the tip! I did exactly as you suggested. I found a couple external firewire/USB enclosures I had. Took one and removed the backplane so the back end of the enclosure is off - totally open. I'm going to use it with my second Polaroid. I'm powering it a bit different by using the power adapter from the IDE/USB converter mentioned earlier in the thread. And plan on powering on and off the enclosure with the keylock of the drive rack. Here's a couple pics. Thanks!

By the way it is sitting on one one those RD-KX50's. :)

z3scott

02-13-07, 02:53 PM

Congrats on the KX50 purchase. I will likely be right behind you. Did you go eslay or direct?

You are not using the USB for anything on that rack right? Are you able to easily swap out HDD trays with this setup? I just use a basic IDE enclosure hard wired to the Polaroid and am able to easily swap out HDD trays without having to unplug anything. I have been getting my WD250gb HDDs @ Newegg. My I fill them fast.

Which burner did you end up getting? I have not done the burner mod yet but I think I will have to as one of my burner sounds like a mack truck! Looking forward to alittle faster burn also.
Eslay The sent a followup email offering a 3 year warranty on the KX50. I may take 'em up on that.

Very easy to swap should be no different. The weight of the enclosure is hefty because it's all aluminum, (relatively thick) the sides w/heatsink fins as well as the top. If you are into "purty" blue lights it has them too or you can disconnect the leds easily.

I have a number of burners and have tried a LG, Sony, and a Liteon. The one I'm currently using is the Sony Q170B2. The Liteon was a SHM-165H6S but was a Litescribe which I wanted to use for other purposes. I am also going to give one of my firmware modded NEC's a shot. They have some of the best write quality. I may put the NEC in with the 2nd polo.

I'm curious if the drive soley determines the write speed capability or if the firmware on the 2100g has something to do with it?

Here is another tip if you get the Mapower enclosure or any other for that matter:

It seems I "pinched" the ide cable a little too tightly attaching the top (little bit of a kink causing a partial short) that may have caused my intermittant problem on the cd drive not the power supply connector. It seems as I was reaching the back of the case to twiddle the connector it would relieve or pinch the ide causing the short. I may have to replace the cable. It's doing a test burn right now in a different usb enclosure so I'll see. BTW I would suggest getting 24" ide for the DVD. The added length helps with allowing more "breathing room" to place the enclosures side by side on top of the Polaroid.

z3scott

02-13-07, 02:58 PM

Thanks for the tip! I did exactly as you suggested. I found a couple external firewire/USB enclosures I had. Took one and removed the backplane so the back end of the enclosure is off - totally open. I'm going to use it with my second Polaroid. I'm powering it a bit different by using the power adapter from the IDE/USB converter mentioned earlier in the thread. And plan on powering on and off the enclosure with the keylock of the drive rack. Here's a couple pics. Thanks!

By the way it is sitting on one one those RD-KX50's. :)
Hey I'm honored I can provide you some help (what little I may) because of all the work you did on this and other informative posts relating to the Polaroid and the Tosh units.

I'm sure I'll need some guidance getting up to speed using the KX50 so be prepared :D

Thank you!
Scott

nextoo

02-13-07, 03:14 PM

Hey I'm honored I can provide you some help (what little I may) because of all the work you did on this and other informative posts relating to the Polaroid and the Tosh units.

I'm sure I'll need some guidance getting up to speed using the KX50 so be prepared :D

Thank you!
Scott

Thanks again. The Toshiba will take a long time to learn. Here's a pic of the back of the "formerly firewire/USB now IDE" enclosure. It's open and gives the power cord and the IDE cable plenty of room. All of the backplane guts have been removed (2 screws) and safely stored away.

nextoo

02-13-07, 03:52 PM

This time with a second enclosure with a DVD burner. z3scott - again great idea. Thanks! I'm going to go with it. I may try to come up with something else for power but this will work.

z3scott

02-13-07, 05:11 PM

This time with a second enclosure with a DVD burner. z3scott - again great idea. Thanks! I'm going to go with it. I may try to come up with something else for power but this will work.
Another idea I had on the power was to plug the enclosures into a power strip and use that to turn them on off simultaneously. Just thought. Since the Mapower case worked so well I didn't have to do that. I have my burner in the same case you're using set up exactly like your pic hehe.

PS: nextoo do you think the extended warranty on the KX50 3yrs/$20 is worth it as preventitive medicine?

nextoo

02-13-07, 05:25 PM

Another idea I had on the power was to plug the enclosures into a power strip and use that to turn them on off simultaneously. Just thought. Since the Mapower case worked so well I didn't have to do that. I have my burner in the same case you're using set up exactly like your pic hehe.

PS: nextoo do you think the extended warranty on the KX50 3yrs/$20 is worth it as preventitive medicine?

They're selling 5 yrs online at their site for $21.99. I'd try calling them and see if I could get the 5 yr for that price. Just have the ebay auction number handy. Either way I'd buy it. DVD recorders, regardless of brand, are not know for their durability (dvd lens, HDD, etc).

DLSDO

02-13-07, 05:27 PM

Alas! An answer to housing my external burner I plan to install. I am happy with my HDD setup.
Excellent solution!
Thanks

We may have to start a KX50 thread

z3scott

02-13-07, 05:53 PM

They're selling 5 yrs online at their site for $21.99. I'd try calling them and see if I could get the 5 yr for that price. Just have the ebay auction number handy. Either way I'd buy it. DVD recorders, regardless of brand, are not know for their durability (dvd lens, HDD, etc).
I just read the eslay warranty offer closely and it is only valid for 2yrs ona "refurb" and max they will cover is up to the selling price. Plus the freight costs obviously to be sent in for repair are (as normal) on the owners buck. I'll have a gander at the stores version thanks for the suggestion.

@DLSDO post a linky if you start a KX50 thread. ;)

I'll have to start planning my install of the 2nd Polaroid (arriving Thus), and the Tosh. I know I need to get to monoprice and pickup another HDMI now. Have to see what else I"ll need. I have a component & rca audio for the D* HD to the Polo, optical from Polo to prepro and component from the Polo to the set covered. Hmm I may need another optical to feed my pre-pro the KX50 digital audio (I may have to use my 3/1 optical switch. Oh, need to grab a rca audio switch/splitter since I'm already using both audio outs from the D* box. Got to read nextoo's post again on his set up.

Missing anything else?

nextoo

02-13-07, 05:58 PM

I just read the eslay warranty offer closely and it is only valid for 2yrs ona "refurb" and max they will cover is up to the selling price. Plus the freight costs obviously to be sent in for repair are (as normal) on the owners buck. I'll have a gander at the stores version thanks for the suggestion.

@DLSDO post a linky if you start a KX50 thread. ;)

I'll have to start planning my install of the 2nd Polaroid (arriving Thus), and the Tosh. I know I need to get to monoprice and pickup another HDMI now. Have to see what else I"ll need. I have a component & rca audio for the D* HD to the Polo, optical from Polo to prepro and component from the Polo to the set covered. Hmm I may need another optical to feed my pre-pro the KX50 digital audio (I may have to use my 3/1 optical switch. Oh, need to grab a rca audio switch/splitter since I'm already using both audio outs from the D* box. Got to read nextoo's post again on his set up.

Missing anything else?

I go s-video and analog audio from the Polaroid to the Toshiba. This let's me record full widescreen to the Toshiba through the Polaroid. I do this if I'm recording something and I want to set the wide screen flag - a feature of the Toshiba. I do this because my source restricts widescreen to component. You source may be different. Which would mean other setup options.

khcv63

02-13-07, 06:25 PM

z3scott

02-13-07, 08:27 PM

z3scott
I'm in the process of doing these mods. I just left my local Microcenter and found the power adaptors(28 with tax for 2 in the bargain bin). More important you said you're using a Sony Q-170 burner. Well Microcenter had a lot of them in the burner OEM bin for 29.99. They also had a bunch of Samsung SH-S182d's. I read reviews on both burners and they both are highly regarded on CD-Freaks. I going to get 1 of each. I can always use them on my other computers. My question is the Sony writer. I'm going to try both anyway, but it doesn't hurt to know one will work with no problem. You guys are moving so fast it"s hard to keep up.LOL

Magic
Just need to remember to prep the burner by setting a region on it first. Plug it in to a computer either on the ide or use a usb adapter and plop a Movie in it so it sets the region. Nextoo and I went forth and back til we realized a fresh (read new , unused) drive needed it's region set to work. I think most any drive will work. I know three different drives I mentioned earlier do. When I try the NEC it will be interesting because I have it set region free I think. I'll have to verify that especially if it doesn't work out.

I think nextoo mentioned it earlier in the thread but running both the drive and the hdd external and unplugging them from the Polo's power supply sure has to help decrease the strain and chances of failure, a great benefit as well.

z3scott

02-13-07, 09:16 PM

I go s-video and analog audio from the Polaroid to the Toshiba. This let's me record full widescreen to the Toshiba through the Polaroid. I do this if I'm recording something and I want to set the wide screen flag - a feature of the Toshiba. I do this because my source restricts widescreen to component. You source may be different. Which would mean other setup options.
I'm doing my cable inventory thanks for the reminder. I'm still trying to get my head around the issues on recording the proper aspect/flag thing. My D* HD DVR is the 700 their new proprietary unit. The HD receiver which the Tosh and second Polaroid are going to work with is the newest one. Both have three output modes for each resolution although 480i is what we have to use. I have 480i stretch, crop and pillar bar. I haven't had or taken the time to test and analyze the various results properly.

If I understand correctly the flag issue relates to playback of the recorded material properly on 4:3 sets primarily? I know I have some posts bookmarked by bobkart that explain this stuff but really one needs to test their particular components to determine what the proper set up is to get things down correctly, no?

BTW I have been trying to find a link on the Toshiba site for a pdf of the KX50 manual to no avail anyone got one? Even the archive only has the 52 & 54 models. Maybe I have to go to the global site not US?

khcv63

02-13-07, 09:19 PM

z3scott
Good to hear that I shouldn't have to worry about the sony AW-Q170A-B2 burner. Just a little info, that burner is based on a Sony/Nec(optiarc 7170A) burner. I would like to know how your other Nec works out. The other burner I plan on getting Samsung SH-S182D is used in the Sony DRU-830A, another good burner. As I said earlier, I"ll test it out with the poloroid and see how it does. How fast is the 170 at burning/finalizing disc? Any problems with +R/RW disc as reported on CDFreaks? What brand disc do you use? I suspect + disc work good with this machine. Thanks

Magic

nextoo

02-13-07, 09:44 PM

I'm doing my cable inventory thanks for the reminder. I'm still trying to get my head around the issues on recording the proper aspect/flag thing. My D* HD DVR is the 700 their new proprietary unit. The HD receiver which the Tosh and second Polaroid are going to work with is the newest one. Both have three output modes for each resolution although 480i is what we have to use. I have 480i stretch, crop and pillar bar. I haven't had or taken the time to test and analyze the various results properly.

If I understand correctly the flag issue relates to playback of the recorded material properly on 4:3 sets primarily? I know I have some posts bookmarked by bobkart that explain this stuff but really one needs to test their particular components to determine what the proper set up is to get things down correctly, no?

BTW I have been trying to find a link on the Toshiba site for a pdf of the KX50 manual to no avail anyone got one? Even the archive only has the 52 & 54 models. Maybe I have to go to the global site not US?

Manual is here:

http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/tacpassets-images/models/RD-XS52/docs/RD-XS52_om_e.pdf

z3scott

02-13-07, 10:31 PM

Manual is here:

http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/tacpassets-images/models/RD-XS52/docs/RD-XS52_om_e.pdf
LOL How to know that the KX50 manual is a part of the XS52? Besides the hdd size I'll have to see what distinguishes it from the 52's reading through it.

@khcv63 I'm using up old stock mainly as I fool around with this learning and getting used to the remote/interface.

I have used:
Compusa 2.4x -R Princo
Platinum 8x +R AML 002
Ritek 4x -R G04
Taiyo Yuden 8x -R
Ricoh jpn +RW
Verbatim 8x +RW

All of them have worked with the Sony drive. I don't have any 16x to try out right now.

z3scott

02-14-07, 09:57 AM

I need a way to take the analog audio out of my D* stb and send it concurrently to 2 or 3 sources without signal loss. I'm using both sets of anlog outs already. One is feeding a modulator for room distribution and the other is occupied going to my HTPC. Time for a ratshack visit.

Anyone got a suggestion?
TIA
Scott

DLSDO

02-14-07, 02:41 PM

redjr

02-14-07, 03:01 PM

For anyone interested here is my current setup.

I have yet to externalize the burner but thats next on the list along with another DVDR for more advanced editing capabilities.

I have a 2 room setup. I have a very large and growing collection of material archived on HDDs that I swap between rooms. As you can see the HDDs are exteriorized in HDD enclosures.

In my main theater room I have a small LCD that I utilize for editing purposes. It extends the life of my DLP lamp and allows me to simutaneously edit the HDD, burn to disc, view DVD, HDTV cable and OTA-HD.

Beats housework!
Enjoy
Hey DLSDO,

Very nice setup. I like your choice in entertainment centers, and it looks like it works well in that room. Great job!

TROLLSTER

02-14-07, 04:11 PM

Hi Ya'll.. first time poster.. but I've been lurking here for quite awhile

this thread has definately caught my attention..

I have done some extensive thread reading on AV.. lots of great information to soak up.. and I think it's already saved me from purchasing the wrong TV.. :)
I have just ordered the Panny DMR-EH75VS, but am wondering if the HD is upgradable.. 80gb is kind of lame.. has anybody tried to swap to a larger HD..? I've tried searching here but can only find minimal info. .. does changing out HD's mean the deck will auto format..?

my new deck should be arriving on Friday from newegg ..

I'm also curious if anyone else has any knowledge on the RjTECH deck with removable HD..? at newegg .. seems to only use +rw media.. but it does do HD swaps.. and it's a bit cheaper then some of the other decks..

anyway.. I think this thread is one of the best.. and appreciate everyone's inputs..

thanks for any insight
craig

DLSDO

02-14-07, 04:27 PM

Hey DLSDO,

Very nice setup. I like your choice in entertainment centers, and it looks like it works well in that room. Great job!

Thanks.

A good friend of mine is a carpenter and built it from scratch. My wife drew a picture and I specified necessary dimensions and he built it from that. He even hand made the cabinet doors! A lost art with prefab units these days.

z3scott

02-14-07, 04:29 PM

For anyone interested here is my current setup.

I have yet to externalize the burner but thats next on the list along with another DVDR for more advanced editing capabilities.

I have a 2 room setup. I have a very large and growing collection of material archived on HDDs that I swap between rooms. As you can see the HDDs are exteriorized in HDD enclosures.

In my main theater room I have a small LCD that I utilize for editing purposes. It extends the life of my DLP lamp and allows me to simutaneously edit the HDD, burn to disc, view DVD, HDTV cable and OTA-HD.

Beats housework!
EnjoyVery nice!

What size is that lcd? I have my eye on this one (http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=HR-807&cm_mmc=geekmail-_-daily_html-_-13FEB07_GVOX-_-GVOXmain)
you need to use the special code at check out to get the price GVOX w/free shipping. Does that the size work out for someone too vain to wear glasses? :o How's the pricing look?

z3scott

02-14-07, 04:44 PM

This Lite-On LVC-9016G player is a multi-format DVD recorder with an integrated VCR, bundled in one fantastic package! (http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=LVC-9016G-R&cm_mmc=geekmail-_-daily_html-_-13FEB07_GEEKLVC-_-GEEKLVCmain)

special code for savings GEEKLVC

khcv63

02-14-07, 04:52 PM

Has anyone noticed that there's an awful lot of sales on DVDR's this week.

DLSDO

02-14-07, 06:36 PM

Very nice!

What size is that lcd? I have my eye on this one (http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=HR-807&cm_mmc=geekmail-_-daily_html-_-13FEB07_GVOX-_-GVOXmain)
you need to use the special code at check out to get the price GVOX w/free shipping. Does that the size work out for someone too vain to wear glasses? :o How's the pricing look?

Thats a really good price. I picked mine up at BB in the closeout area ffor ~$90. I can not remember the LCD size but I think it might be about the same size. I love that little monitor for quick edits or monitoring recordings in progress. I can see the screen fine. I output composite from the DVDR to the LCD. What else was I gonna use those composites for? :cool:

z3scott

02-14-07, 11:18 PM

Thats a really good price. I picked mine up at BB in the closeout area ffor ~$90. I can not remember the LCD size but I think it might be about the same size. I love that little monitor for quick edits or monitoring recordings in progress. I can see the screen fine. I output composite from the DVDR to the LCD. What else was I gonna use those composites for? :cool:
I think I'm going to grab it. I have an old Magnavox 13" w/vcr and composite in sitting on the floor in the corner and my ceo hates it there (hehe) for those times she's watching and I want to edit. This will have a much higher WAF.

Having the second polo in the other system like you do and being able to plop the drives in either one will minimize the problem but this allows me to hang with her and get some things done w/o disturbing her viewing as much.

Burnerbum

02-15-07, 07:41 AM

z3scott

02-15-07, 06:28 PM

[QUOTE=z3scott]Well I went and did it. I bought one of the KX50 units... another learning curve to go through QUOTE]
The Tosh is a great recorder, but a lot to learn, there are lots of menus and sub menus, i have the XS32 and XS52. I really wanted the XS54 but it would not download the TV guide. (comcast cable)
Anyway, Have you been able to find anything on upgrading the hard drives in these units. I have searched but haven't been able to find anything. I have tried changing them and succeeded in getting one to recognize a new hard drive but then it formatted it to the size that came with the unit.
Nice to know I've got some knowledgeable gents like you and nextoo when I start diving in with the new toys. I've been on a buying binge and need to slow down now once I get these lastest acqusitions installed :) I have popped in to some of the tosh threads and done some reading but wasn't really focusing on the hdd swapping. The capabilities and flexibilty of them (and subsequent relative complexity) are to be expected somewhat I would think. I'm looking forward to the challenge. One major project I intend to work on with the Polaroid and the Tosh is transfering some old svhs tapes of my family, kids birth video etc to hdd for archiving and transfer to the tosh to organize and edit then burn to dvd.
I'm heading out this moring to see if i can find the Polaroid at my local walmart. I like the fact that you can modify it. something to play with......
It's a great mod box for sure. I'm definitely no expert on dvd recorder pq but I'm very pleased with the results out of the 2100g even the svid input can turn out very nice although the component certainly still has the edge in color saturation and detail with the hd output.

richsale

02-15-07, 06:51 PM

Does anybody know if this HDD will work with the Polaroid:
http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=WD3200JB&cat=HDD&cpc=HDDbsc
Seems like a good price for a 320GB.

z3scott

02-15-07, 07:43 PM

Does anybody know if this HDD will work with the Polaroid:
http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=WD3200JB&cat=HDD&cpc=HDDbsc
Seems like a good price for a 320GB.
The only drive that I've seen mentioned to not work was a Maxtor (500Gb) that Master Yoda (ooops I meant nextoo) tried. I wonder if the problem with that might have been that it was a ATA133 rather than ATA100.

You can get that 320gb for about that price including shipping

see here (http://labs.anandtech.com/products.php?sfilter=108&pricepgb=yes)

Best bang for the buck is those 250gb drives DLSDO keeps filling up though it sounds like Newegg will be running out with him recording 24/7 :D

nextoo

02-15-07, 08:00 PM

The only drive that I've seen mentioned to not work was a Maxtor (500Gb) that Master Yoda (ooops I meant nextoo) tried. I wonder if the problem with that might have been that it was a ATA133 rather than ATA100.

You can get that 320gb for about that price including shipping

see here (http://labs.anandtech.com/products.php?sfilter=108&pricepgb=yes)

Best bang for the buck is those 250gb drives DLSDO keeps filling up though it sounds like Newegg will be running out with him recording 24/7 :D

The problem I had with the 500GB drive I tried was that once it filled to the 80GB point it crapped out. Even though after the initial installation it showed the correct size (500GB) once I got to 80GB of usage it stopped being reliable. It could have been a fluke but your observation about ATA133 versus ATA100 may be correct. The 500GB drive was an ATA133 drive. I thought that might have been the reason at the time.

Since then I have stuck to 250GB drives. I decided to stick with 250GB for a couple of reasons. The first being the price/value ratio. The second being it can become tough to manage a really big drive. Sometimes having too many titles on a drive can be less than desirable.

But as the price of larger drives come down it may make sense to up the ante a bit.

DLSDO

02-16-07, 01:57 AM

Best bang for the buck is those 250gb drives DLSDO keeps filling up though it sounds like Newegg will be running out with him recording 24/7 :D

I think it actually is a diagnosable and treatable condition I suffer from...IGOTMOREMOVIESTHANICANWATCHINALIFETIMEitis :eek:

I like the 250s cause like Nextoo notes..its a lot of titles to scroll through and good $.

DLSDO

02-16-07, 02:19 AM

What did I do wrong or is it the burner? Finally decided to pop open my "K" unit again since I was getting that crunching/growl @ startup. Actually this is unit #2 in the bedroom and its set for a timer recording every morning @ 6:30 (Magic School Bus for one of my little one's) and its waking up the wife so shes upset and if shes unhappy then I am unhappy...well you know the rest

Nevertheless...it was the fan afterall. Changed it out with a spare and now its whisper quiet. Weird that it made that noise and only with startup.

While I had it opened I decided to put in a new burner. Sony DRU-820A. Quick format on the computer. Set the region code. Transferred over to the Polaroid.

I used the external power supply but got bars of slow vertical scrolling interference on the screen?? Anybody seen this before? Was definitely the power supply. When I unplugged it went away. The power supplier is good. I use it to power my laptops external burner.

Well I am creative so I crafted a power supply directly off the board to the burner that worked just fine.

Obstacle #2. Do you have to do the IDE reversal trick with the burner like the HDD? I used a 19" standard IDE. I tried both and I could only open and close the tray. No go otherwise.

Obstacle #3. Master right?

Any suggestions?

FullOnShred

02-16-07, 02:43 AM

The problem I had with the 500GB drive I tried was that once it filled to the 80GB point it crapped out. Even though after the initial installation it showed the correct size (500GB) once I got to 80GB of usage it stopped being reliable. It could have been a fluke but your observation about ATA133 versus ATA100 may be correct. The 500GB drive was an ATA133 drive. I thought that might have been the reason at the time.

Since then I have stuck to 250GB drives. I decided to stick with 250GB for a couple of reasons. The first being the price/value ratio. The second being it can become tough to manage a really big drive. Sometimes having too many titles on a drive can be less than desirable.

But as the price of larger drives come down it may make sense to up the ante a bit.

nextoo.... I read on another board about upgrading HDD size with the Accurian. Guy found out that there was insufficient memory in the unit to handle the larger HDD correctly and it became unstable.....I just wonder if that might be the problem with a 500gb with this unit?

z3scott

02-16-07, 07:25 AM

nextoo.... I read on another board about upgrading HDD size with the Accurian. Guy found out that there was insufficient memory in the unit to handle the larger HDD correctly and it became unstable.....I just wonder if that might be the problem with a 500gb with this unit?
We need someone with a big ATA100 drive willing to try it out and see if it has the problem or not. I don't have one to give it a shot.

z3scott

02-16-07, 07:37 AM

What did I do wrong or is it the burner? ......

While I had it opened I decided to put in a new burner. Sony DRU-820A. Quick format on the computer. Set the region code. Transferred over to the Polaroid.

I used the external power supply but got bars of slow vertical scrolling interference on the screen?? Anybody seen this before? Was definitely the power supply. When I unplugged it went away. The power supplier is good. I use it to power my laptops external burner.

Well I am creative so I crafted a power supply directly off the board to the burner that worked just fine.

Obstacle #2. Do you have to do the IDE reversal trick with the burner like the HDD? I used a 19" standard IDE. I tried both and I could only open and close the tray. No go otherwise.

Obstacle #3. Master right?

Any suggestions?
Might have a short in the ide cable. It happened to me when I pinched the cable in the Mapower case I found the crease in the ide cable that caused the intermittant start problem. You shouldn't have to draw power off the Polaroid. I thought it was the power supply to the case because when I was reached in to the back to jiggle the ps connector I created pressure or movement that stress relieved the short in the ide cable. Look the cable over carefully or just replace it with a fresh one and give it a try.

DLSDO

02-16-07, 08:45 AM

We need someone with a big ATA100 drive willing to try it out and see if it has the problem or not. I don't have one to give it a shot.

Teach me here. What does the ATA 100 provide? More memory? Help a computer challenged guy

DLSDO

02-16-07, 08:57 AM

Might have a short in the ide cable. It happened to me when I pinched the cable in the Mapower case I found the crease in the ide cable that caused the intermittant start problem. You shouldn't have to draw power off the Polaroid. I thought it was the power supply to the case because when I was reached in to the back to jiggle the ps connector I created pressure or movement that stress relieved the short in the ide cable. Look the cable over carefully or just replace it with a fresh one and give it a try.

Tried another IDE and still no dice.

Does the IDE need the "nub fix" like the HDD swap?

Could I have messed up the burner with my power supply fix? I ran from the original burners 4 pin power supply on the board and spliced in a molex to the new burner. Seemed to power it up just fine. I could open and close the tray but thats it!

z3scott

02-16-07, 09:15 AM

Teach me here. What does the ATA 100 provide? More memory? Help a computer challenged guy
refers to the specs for transfer speed over the bus ie 100Mbs vs ATA133 (which Maxtor hyped) @133Mbs. My thoughts were this might be the cause of the apparent problems nextoo had with his drive. I build my own pc's and typically stick to seagate and wd. I do have one maxtor 250gb which is fine. I can't test it on the Polaroid since I have some movies etc that I don't want to risk. The Maxtor's are supposed be backwards compatible with ATA100 but certain Maxtors or at least with certain firmware were causing issues a few years ago.

z3scott

02-16-07, 09:20 AM

Tried another IDE and still no dice.

Does the IDE need the "nub fix" like the HDD swap?
No

Could I have messed up the burner with my power supply fix? I ran from the original burners 4 pin power supply on the board and spliced in a molex to the new burner. Seemed to power it up just fine. I could open and close the tray but thats it!
Did you disconnect the power from the Polo to the burner (remove it completely from the Polo motherboard) and power with the external power and new ide?

DLSDO

02-16-07, 09:27 AM

No

Did you disconnect the power from the Polo to the burner (remove it completely from the Polo motherboard) and power with the external power and new ide?

Yes. It still was a no go.

Interesting. Now I can not get that burner to play on my laptop?? It just instructs me to insert a disc in the drive but does not recognize that I have done so? Did I "fry the burner". Bad joke I suppose.

Time for a new burner!?

Thanks for the help

z3scott

02-16-07, 02:45 PM

Yes. It still was a no go.

Interesting. Now I can not get that burner to play on my laptop?? It just instructs me to insert a disc in the drive but does not recognize that I have done so? Did I "fry the burner". Bad joke I suppose.

Time for a new burner!?

Thanks for the help
Bummer. The drive did work when you set up the region iirc, yes? If so everything was snugly connected properly?

DLSDO

02-16-07, 03:30 PM

Bummer. The drive did work when you set up the region iirc, yes? If so everything was snugly connected properly?

Went like this. Hooked the burner up to the laptop. Put in a DVD I had burned off the Polaroid (was this my mistake?). Prompted to choose region...America chosen. It then played the DVD on the laptop. Hooked it up to the Polaroid as I noted previously without success. Reconnected to the laptop and it would not play again????

z3scott

02-16-07, 03:38 PM

Went like this. Hooked the burner up to the laptop. Put in a DVD I had burned off the Polaroid (was this my mistake?). Prompted to choose region...America chosen. It then played the DVD on the laptop. Hooked it up to the Polaroid as I noted previously without success. Reconnected to the laptop and it would not play again????
For giggles try setting the region with a real dvd it might not have taken the region set because you used a polo derived dvd.

Were you running region free on the polo by chance? I don't know if that could cause it or not. If you boinked the Sony I'm not sure it would power up.

DLSDO

02-16-07, 03:55 PM

For giggles try setting the region with a real dvd it might not have taken the region set because you used a polo derived dvd.

Were you running region free on the polo by chance? I don't know if that could cause it or not. If you boinked the Sony I'm not sure it would power up.

Okay. I think were getting somewhere. Lots of operator errors here. I was running region free on the Polaroid. I applied the hack when I 1st got the unit. I was embarrassed to mention the non-commercial DVD thing too.

The problem is that I thought of the non-commercial DVD thing and thats why I reconnected back to the laptop . But now I can't get the computer to recognize that I have a DVD in the drive. How do I reset the region on the burner with a real DVD?

I know..I know...How in the heck could I mess up one of the easier mods?? :o

z3scott

02-16-07, 07:22 PM

Okay. I think were getting somewhere. Lots of operator errors here. I was running region free on the Polaroid. I applied the hack when I 1st got the unit. I was embarrassed to mention the non-commercial DVD thing too.

The problem is that I thought of the non-commercial DVD thing and thats why I reconnected back to the laptop . But now I can't get the computer to recognize that I have a DVD in the drive. How do I reset the region on the burner with a real DVD?

I know..I know...How in the heck could I mess up one of the easier mods?? :o
Hey if we didn't mess up we wouldn't be here helping each other right? ;) We just have some more investigating to do. :) I'm hoping we can pull that drive of yours back onto the straight and narrow.

To get to the dvd region setting in XP you need to open Device Manager>>right click My Computer >>select the Hardware Tab>>click the Device Manager Button (it's the top one labeled Device Manager :D )>>Behold the list of devices... the fourth or fifth one down should be DVD/CD-ROM Drives click the + and the current list of attached drives should open>>double click the drive you are working on (or right and click select properties) the drive you selected will open to it's Properties screen>>click the DVD Region Tab and you are home.

I'm curious what it will show in the Current Region box? The info displayed will show regions you can select and give you a warning on how many drive region changes are available on the drive you are looking at. Max selections is 5 for a new drive so it may show you have 4 left? Let me know what you find out please.

I got the Tosh KX50 early it arrived today and the 2nd Polo arrived a day late so I'm getting ready to check out my if the NEC3500 which has modded firmware is going to work. First I've gotta check what is is showing myself for a region hehe. The a mess of wiring to cobble together after modding the Polaroid.

I'll check back for your reply a bit later. Good luck!

Warning The above info (I just realized) applies only to a drive directly to a pc via the an ide bus. I tried to view the region on my modded NEC using a usb/ide adapter and device manager shows a usb error code 10 device failure to start. DLSDO this is why your drive possibly won't come up under the DVD/CD-ROM devices and you will not be able to change the region attached through a usb/ide converter to the pc. Check if your Device Manager list shows an error (yellow exlamation) under USB controllers. Does it?

I'm going to hook up my Nec to one of my pc 's and check what region code it does show (and if it is changeable) but this is likely why you have the problem. The Polo set the device to non region and now it won't work with the pc. This doesn't necessarily mean it won't function at all. I'm still trying to figure out why it doesn't work on the Polaroid. Let me do some checking and I may try my NEC with the Polo and see what happens.

Scott

z3scott

02-16-07, 09:07 PM

Ok I can see the nec when it is on the ide bus of one of my systems. The info in Device Manager says it has no region selected hehe and 2 changes left.

DLSDO you should be able to view similar info with your drive hooked up to a pc via an ide connection. If not your drive might be borked (highly technical term).

I'm going to crack the new Polaroid open now and try this region free drive out. For those interested it is a NEC 3500A modded with a 3500AG region-FREE firmware. I'll report back how it goes with the Polaroid.

The NEC is working fine with the Polo right now playing King Kong . I haven't tried burning yet though.

It now doesn't make sense now that the Sony drive you are trying to use doesn't work in the Polaroid at least due to any region change unless the act of changing it got messed up. Only if you can get on an ide bus in a pc will know if the drive is working (maybe) if it can be seen in device manager
:confused:

Make very sure you have the ide connector for it keyed with the tab and make sure it is pressed completely (all the way) into the motherboard connector with the new cable.It is a snug fit next to the drive cover maybe it's not quite in all the way?.

khcv63

02-17-07, 08:52 AM

z3scott

02-17-07, 11:56 AM

DLSDO
Do you have NERO on one of your computers, If so connect your burner to that computer either usb or IDE no matter. Look in the NERO toolkit and pick nero infotool. Run that. It should show your burner as one of the drives, pick it and it should show all the info about it. When I bought my sony drive NERO was packaged with it. If you can't see it on a regular computer, you pobably have a lemon. I can't see where you may have done any major damage, unless you shorted something to the drive. Most power connections are made so you can't mess them up. I agree with z3scott,it's probably a cable issue, if the burner is good. My question is did you actually play the disc you put in after setting the region code while it was in the computer the first time? Might have given an early indication if the burner was a good one or not. I'm going to put mine in today and see how mine do.

Magic
I didn't have Nero to check on the pc I hooked the NEC to via usb adapter but I don't think it would have mattered. The drive did not show up in My Computer and Device Manager showed no drive under DVD/CD-ROM. It did have an exlcamation under Universal Serial Bus controllers which was tied to the usb/nec drive reading a code 10 (failure to start). If the comp won't see/access it I don't think Nero will.

The system was able to recognize it and had no errors when it was attached via ide. Must be an anomaly of the USB interface and "region free" drives?

DLSDO

02-17-07, 12:11 PM

Okay. Lot of good suggestions. I will dive into it tomorrow and let you know how it goes. I really appreciate the help!

khcv63

02-17-07, 02:22 PM

DLSDO
First the good news. Both of my burners worked. Samsung SH-S182 and Sony AW-Q170A. Now the process. I connected both drives to my laptop and checked the region codes via NERO with external power and the ide to usb cable included with them. Played a commerical DVD on both using intervideo software. Now the fun began. The Samsung didn't play at first on my polaroid. So i tried to change the region code on the polaroid from "0" to "1". No joy could not change it, but did notice a little disk show in the corner. I then I pressed the play button on the remote and low and behold it started playing the DVD. OK I then tested it for burning a title I had prerecorded to the HDD. No problem. So the Samsung worked. Up next the Sony. It worked the first time out, played back a commercial DVD no problem. I did have issues with the burn on a Verbatium RW disk. Seems it is really finicky about used media. Both wrote pretty fast to the media. I'll post more later as I throw more at them. I'm going to use them as external drives. Those USB to IDE adapters are pretty handy. I'm on my 4th 250 gig HD with enclosures. Love the 120 hours at SP per drive. Looks like I can archive all my store bought DVD's and VHS's.

Magic

DLSDO

02-18-07, 12:54 AM

Okay. So I fried the Sony!

Had a "MadDog T-SH652" burner. Connected IDE-USB to the laptop with a "real DVD" - Madagascar. Dialed in America. I have Nero on the laptop. Moved the burner over to the Polaroid. Used my external power supply. I am hesitant to use my 4 pin to molex internal hack as I think this might have done in the Sony. I did not get the scrolling static with the external power supply like I did with the Sony so really no need for the internal power.

Turned on the Polaroid and it played the DVD just fine. Burned off a 30 minute segment from the HDD fast. But playback paused and stuttered. Tried different media--its the burner. I am not really surprised as the burner is cheap but its still a bummer.

Time for burner #3. Will keep you posted

DLSDO

02-18-07, 01:03 AM

Love the 120 hours at SP per drive.Magic

I really need to test record in SP. What size screen are you viewing with? I record everything @ HQ because I assumed I would not be happy with PQ @ any other mode. Can you see a discernable difference?

I will give it a try with these 4 eyes and let you know what I think. What is everyone else out there archiving with as far as recording mode is concerned?

DLSDO

02-18-07, 01:19 AM

[QUOTE]I haven't tried burning yet though.[/COLOR][/size]

Did it burn and playback without problems?

It now doesn't make sense now that the Sony drive you are trying to use doesn't work in the Polaroid at least due to any region change unless the act of changing it got messed up. Only if you can get on an ide bus in a pc will know if the drive is working (maybe) if it can be seen in device manager
:confused:

Either I fried the burner or it was bad from the get go.

Make very sure you have the ide connector for it keyed with the tab and make sure it is pressed completely (all the way) into the motherboard connector with the new cable.It is a snug fit next to the drive cover maybe it's not quite in all the way?.

This will make you laugh. I got the 2nd burner up and playing fine. Got called away and powered off the Polaroid. Came back and powered it up and I could not get passed the "Polaroid" screen. I was tempted to throw it out the window but thought about your post. I checked my connections. Everything to the burner was perfect. Looked @ the HDD and I will be darned if the IDE wasn't just alittle unseated from the HDD enclosure!! Viola--problem solved ;)

Thanks

BTW....Hows the Toshiba? I have not taken the plunge yet.

z3scott

02-18-07, 06:58 AM

I really need to test record in SP. What size screen are you viewing with? I record everything @ HQ because I assumed I would not be happy with PQ @ any other mode. Can you see a discernable difference?

I will give it a try with these 4 eyes and let you know what I think. What is everyone else out there archiving with as far as recording mode is concerned?
SP works great. I run HQ on all my 1 hour stuff but don't hesitate to use SP for anything longer and once I get done setting the second system up will do some more thorough testing. SP+ is where I start to see a more substantial drop in PQ. I'm using a 37" 720p Sharp LCD with the first Polaroid. 56" JVC 1080P with the PolaTosh RD-2100KX50 rig. :)

z3scott

02-18-07, 07:51 AM

Did it burn and playback without problems?
Forgot to do a burn too excited to check out the Tosh

Either I fried the burner or it was bad from the get go. If you haven't tried the Sony since you discovered the hdd cable wasn't snug this isn't necessarily the case! Or have you tried the Sony with the Polaroid a second time?

This will make you laugh. I got the 2nd burner up and playing fine. Got called away and powered off the Polaroid. Came back and powered it up and I could not get passed the "Polaroid" screen. I was tempted to throw it out the window but thought about your post. I checked my connections. Everything to the burner was perfect. Looked @ the HDD and I will be darned if the IDE wasn't just alittle unseated from the HDD enclosure!! Viola--problem solved ;)

Thanks

BTW....Hows the Toshiba? I have not taken the plunge yet.
It seems to be a solid unit. I haven't had enough time with it yet to really comment intelligently and won't have any time today to finish hooking everything up. One cool thing about the set up is my D* boxes pass a 480i signal concurrently (over s-vid) while using HDMI. Thus I can pass stuff from the Polo when I set the output on the D* to 480i, have a direct s-vid from the D* to the Tosh and because the Tosh has a third s-vid connection feed the Polo's s-vid the output of a JVC SVHS and pass it to the Tosh if I want.The refurb was well packed custom foamed in the box unlike the Polaroid. Spent part of the day modding the cabinet (120mm fan, additional holes for wiring, vacuuming up the mess) burned one disk fine off the Polariod and moved a program over to the hdd on the Tosh is all so far. Been reading some threads and pushing buttons on the Tosh. I've got lots to learn. Had it all set up temporarily to test out things in another room. Only have the Tosh hooked up via HDMI to the JVC set once I was satisfied both units were functioning. Played part of a couple dvd's in it. I need to find the output settings for upscaling but I won't really use it for playback since I have a Tosh XA1 which is a killer SD upconverter as well as HDDVD player. Forgot the Tosh doesn't read + media and stumbled trying the first Polo dvd in it! :D I need some more s-vid cables and have some DVD-RAM coming too.

See if that Sony is really dead or not.

nextoo

02-18-07, 08:25 AM

SP works great. I run HQ on all my 1 hour stuff but don't hesitate to use SP for anything longer and once I get done setting the second system up will do some more thorough testing. SP+ is where I start to see a more substantial drop in PQ. I'm using a 37" 720p Sharp LCD with the first Polaroid. 56" JVC 1080P with the PolaTosh RD-2100KX50 rig. :)

PolaTosh? Funny. I've been thinking of calling the combination that for a while! Or maybe a Toshiroid? Poshiba?

By the way my RD-XS54 arrives on Monday. Best I can tell it is identical to the XS55. The manuals are identical. I could not pass up the price.

Also with the KX50. The manual says it will only read -R and Ram discs. But mine will read a finalized -RW disc (Maxell -RW burned on the Polaroid). This may be helpful if you want to dub from the Polaroid to the Toshiba.

DLSDO

02-18-07, 11:49 AM

PolaTosh? Funny. I've been thinking of calling the combination that for a while! Or maybe a Toshiroid? Poshiba?.

Polatosh- sounds like a soft toilet paper

Toshiroid- sounds like a Toshiba on steroids

Poshiba- sounds like a fancy Toshiba

I vote for the souped up model....Toshiroid!! :D

z3scott

02-18-07, 12:13 PM

PolaTosh? Funny. I've been thinking of calling the combination that for a while! Or maybe a Toshiroid? Poshiba?

By the way my RD-XS54 arrives on Monday. Best I can tell it is identical to the XS55. The manuals are identical. I could not pass up the price.

Also with the KX50. The manual says it will only read -R and Ram discs. But mine will read a finalized -RW disc (Maxell -RW burned on the Polaroid). This may be helpful if you want to dub from the Polaroid to the Toshiba.

I like Tosharoid too!!! When I get a bit more time and really get stuck I may start a Tosharoid The Director's Cut Thread :D Thanks for the tip on the -RW. Has to be finalized??? I'll likely send things over via -R or hdd unless there is some compelling reason to do otherwise?

nextoo

02-18-07, 12:42 PM

I like Tosharoid too!!! When I get a bit more time and really get stuck I may start a Tosharoid The Director's Cut Thread :D Thanks for the tip on the -RW. Has to be finalized??? I'll likely send things over via -R or hdd unless there is some compelling reason to do otherwise?

Well, with RW you can use them over again. You aren't wasting a -R when dubbing material from the Polaroid to the Toshiba. You can erase a finalized -RW on the Polaroid.

z3scott

02-18-07, 01:26 PM

Well, with RW you can use them over again. You aren't wasting a -R when dubbing material from the Polaroid to the Toshiba. You can erase a finalized -RW on the Polaroid.
Just shows how naive I was in forgetting I could erase the -RW after finalizing! Thanks again.
Scott

mike1061

02-18-07, 03:59 PM

Ok, I missed this. What are you combining from the Polariod, and the Toshiba?
I don't understand what you are doing.
Thanks Mike

Burnerbum

02-18-07, 06:27 PM

PolaTosh? Funny. I've been thinking of calling the combination that for a while! Or maybe a Toshiroid? Poshiba?

By the way my RD-XS54 arrives on Monday. Best I can tell it is identical to the XS55. The manuals are identical. I could not pass up the price.

Where did you find the XS54. I've been trying to find one. I had one about a year ago but couldn't get the guide to download and been thinking of trying one again. The network Navi was great, I was able to edit my videos on the pc rather than the tv. It worked really well.

PolaTosh.... I think i saw one of those in Warsaw.

z3scott

02-19-07, 06:51 AM

Well, with RW you can use them over again. You aren't wasting a -R when dubbing material from the Polaroid to the Toshiba. You can erase a finalized -RW on the Polaroid.
Apologies to the Polaroid only users, perhaps I should post this in a new thread?

nextoo,
from your experience with the Tosharoid have you done any comparisons of pq of final dvds produced sent from the hdd of the 2100g to the Tosh (via s-vid of course) versus a transfer using a -RW then burned on the Tosh? Wondering what the loss characteristics might be going over the s-vid?

DLSDO

02-19-07, 08:44 AM

nextoo

02-19-07, 09:45 AM

I had the exact same problem. I had stuttering on playback with both burned discs and commercial discs. But burning from the HDD to the disc worked fine. It turned out to be the cabling. Are you using a 40 or 80 pin IDE cable?

To eliminate the drive as the issue try this. Use the original IDE cable and with the case open just set the replacement drive on top of the OEM drive. And run some quick tests.

nextoo

02-19-07, 10:19 AM

Apologies to the Polaroid only users, perhaps I should post this in a new thread?

nextoo,
from your experience with the Tosharoid have you done any comparisons of pq of final dvds produced sent from the hdd of the 2100g to the Tosh (via s-vid of course) versus a transfer using a -RW then burned on the Tosh? Wondering what the loss characteristics might be going over the s-vid?

I think using the Toshiba to dub the disc to the HDD offers better PQ than playing the same disc into it via s-video. The process is contained within the Toshiba.

nextoo

02-19-07, 10:42 AM

Where did you find the XS54. I've been trying to find one. I had one about a year ago but couldn't get the guide to download and been thinking of trying one again. The network Navi was great, I was able to edit my videos on the pc rather than the tv. It worked really well.

PolaTosh.... I think i saw one of those in Warsaw.

It was a private party eslay sale. $255 + $14 for shipping. One of those "only driven by a little old lady on Sunday" things. We'll see. But the seller seemed honest enough.

Best I could find for the XS55 was refurbished for $350 + $25 for shipping. So I took the risk. And based on my research it looks like the only difference between the two is firmware (case color too if that matters). I know updated firmware is available for the XS54. So I think they are the same machines.

DLSDO

02-19-07, 10:49 AM

nextoo

02-19-07, 10:52 AM

Time to pick up an 80 pin. Thats likely the solution. I will do some more testing and let you know. Thanks Nextoo.

Not really. The Polaroid uses a 40 pin cable. But I would try a different cable none the less. If you are having the same problem with two drives then the consistent variable is the cable. I don't think it is the Polaroid.

Burnerbum

02-19-07, 02:52 PM

It was a private party eslay sale. $255 + $14 for shipping. One of those "only driven by a little old lady on Sunday" things. We'll see. But the seller seemed honest enough.

Best I could find for the XS55 was refurbished for $350 + $25 for shipping. So I took the risk. And based on my research it looks like the only difference between the two is firmware (case color too if that matters). I know updated firmware is available for the XS54. So I think they are the same machines.
Thanks,
I found the XS55 for 349.00 on ebay from "wegotbetterdeals" it states that they are an authorized dealer. The 54 is 10 bucks cheaper. I called Toshiba and they said "yes" they are so the warranty would be honored. But I am waiting for a call back from Toshiba tech support. The 54 and 55 would not work with Motorola DCTxxxx (digital HD DVR) boxes and I want to see if they ever came up with a fix. The guy in sales said he didn't think so but i should talk with their support group. If i can't use the TV Guide then I will forget about it, It's too hard to use without it working. I asked if they were coming out with any new units that have hard drives and he said not right now, he said they may later in the year.

z3scott

02-19-07, 03:14 PM

I think using the Toshiba to dub the disc to the HDD offers better PQ than playing the same disc into it via s-video. The process is contained within the Toshiba.
Intuitively that should be the case. I thought I read (perhaps another thread) that you do also send the signal out of the Polaroid via s-vid to the KX50 at times to record the widescreen flag. That obviously would save an additional step or two. Is that more a matter of convenience? Recordings not as critical for pq or did I read incorrectly? That's why I asked the question comparing the recorded output differences.
Thanks

z3scott

02-19-07, 03:28 PM

Exchanged out the Sony DRU-830A. This one worked fine...kinda. Here is my dilemma. This has been my experience with 2 different burners now.

1) Response time to remote commands is slower than the stock burner
2) The units are so slow that they sometimes lock up and freeze
3) I get stutter and frozen frames on playback..using different media
4) No problems with high speed dub from HDD-->burner but editing on the external burner is slow and freezes/locks up occasionally.

I am using a standard 19" IDE. My suspicion is the length of the run is the problem. I am confused why I have not heard of this problem reported before.

What type and length IDE cable are you using? Has anyone else had these issues?
So far I've been doing all my editing on the hdd (and I swapped drives for the external w/o using the internal much) so I can't compare/comment regarding that aspect but I haven't had any anomalies with the external drives yet and I'm running 24" ide cables on both of the burners. Definitely try nextoo's suggestions including a new cable.

nextoo

02-19-07, 03:36 PM

Intuitively that should be the case. I thought I read (perhaps another thread) that you do also send the signal out of the Polaroid via s-vid to the KX50 at times to record the widescreen flag. That obviously would save an additional step or two. Is that more a matter of convenience? Recordings not as critical for pq or did I read incorrectly? That's why I asked the question comparing the recorded output differences.
Thanks

Yes this works great. You are recording directly to the Toshiba. Using the Polaroid simply to convert the signal from component to svideo. The quality is excellent.

But if you have already recorded something to the HDD of the Polaroid you might see PQ improvement by doing a quick burn to -RW media and then transcoding it to the Toshiba. Test it and see which you prefer. You'll still get great quality using an svideo connection and playing recorded material from the Polaroid's HDD.

z3scott

02-19-07, 04:06 PM

Yes this works great. You are recording directly to the Toshiba. Using the Polaroid simply to convert the signal from component to svideo. The quality is excellent.

But if you have already recorded something to the HDD of the Polaroid you might see PQ improvement by doing a quick burn to -RW media and then transcoding it to the Toshiba. Test it and see which you prefer. You'll still get great quality using an svideo connection and playing recorded material from the Polaroid's HDD.
The KX50 is going to work great with the Polaroid and my stb because I can send s-vid direct out of my D* HD receiver at the same time as I watch HDMI at 1080i on my JVC 1080p set. If I want to archive to the hdd on the Polaroid I can drop the D* HD box's output to 480i. Heck I can even send s-vid to the Polo's hdd at the same time if I add a video splitter for the output of the D* stb. :eek: I've got to order a splitter anyway to feed audio to both the inputs on the Tosharoid because I'm using both analog outs already on the D* to feed a htpc and a multiplexer. I've got way too many options and not enough cables :o

DLSDO

02-20-07, 12:20 AM

Picked up an 80-conductor ribbon cable (still 40 pin). Its 18". Well with the Sony DRU-830A response time is much faster. Burns in a flash but I still get stutter/frozen frames on playback and it still locks up with editing occasionally. This is also the case with the stock IDE cable.

It is still a burner issue it appears. Might have to mark this one off the list. For those of you with external burners give it a test burn and do some editing and playback and report your findings when you get a chance.

BTW, my internal burner is working fine. I would like the convenience of less strain on the Polo, faster burns, and the fun of the mod.

nextoo

02-20-07, 08:22 PM

The KX50 is going to work great with the Polaroid and my stb because I can send s-vid direct out of my D* HD receiver at the same time as I watch HDMI at 1080i on my JVC 1080p set. If I want to archive to the hdd on the Polaroid I can drop the D* HD box's output to 480i. Heck I can even send s-vid to the Polo's hdd at the same time if I add a video splitter for the output of the D* stb. :eek: I've got to order a splitter anyway to feed audio to both the inputs on the Tosharoid because I'm using both analog outs already on the D* to feed a htpc and a multiplexer. I've got way too many options and not enough cables :o

The KX50 will work great in that setup. One setup option to consider. I run component and svideo from my STB into the Polaroid. I then run component from the Polaroid to my television and svideo from the Polaroid to the Toshiba. This accomplishes two things.

1. I can have the Polaroid powered off and still record via svideo to the Toshiba. The Polaroid passes the svideo signal when powered off. This means the STB can be set at 1080i. The Polaroid passes through the 1080i video via component to the television and passes through the svideo at 480i to the Toshiba.

2. I can adjust the STB to output at 480i. Power up the Polaroid and get full widescreen recording to both the Polaroid and the Toshiba simultaneously. The Polaroid accepts the 480i widescreen from an HD channel via component from the STB and also converts it via svideo to the Toshiba.

Your challenge will be moving the audio around. But that's a piece of cake compared to moving full widescreen video around.

z3scott

02-20-07, 11:28 PM

The KX50 will work great in that setup. One setup option to consider. I run component and svideo from my STB into the Polaroid. I then run component from the Polaroid to my television and svideo from the Polaroid to the Toshiba. This accomplishes two things.
This is the way I've set it it up exactly. :) I had to order a few more cables. Found out I had a bad 12' component video cable. I ordered the video/audio splitter amp off eslay last night. Currently I have an optical switch to feed the dig outs of the Tosharoid to my pre-pro and have an analog audio directly to the tv to be able to monitor w/o firing up the big rig if I don't want to.

1. I can have the Polaroid powered off and still record via svideo to the Toshiba. The Polaroid passes the svideo signal when powered off. This means the STB can be set at 1080i. The Polaroid passes through the 1080i video via component to the television and passes through the svideo at 480i to the Toshiba.

2. I can adjust the STB to output at 480i. Power up the Polaroid and get full widescreen recording to both the Polaroid and the Toshiba simultaneously. The Polaroid accepts the 480i widescreen from an HD channel via component from the STB and also converts it via svideo to the Toshiba.

Your challenge will be moving the audio around. But that's a piece of cake compared to moving full widescreen video around.
Actually the biggest challenge is handling the rats nest of cables efficently because of all the in's and out's the Tosharoid presents.

DLSDO

02-21-07, 12:28 AM

.

Post some pics!! Your setup is really nice.

z3scott

02-21-07, 01:37 AM

Post some pics!! Your setup is really nice.
Give me another day or two to finish up most of the cable organization and I will (won't be totally done until next week with it all). I am running multiple timed recordings to check out D* HD into the Tosharoid. One to the external NEC burner and one to the hdd of the Polo (both via component) and one also to dvd on the KX50 over svid straight from the D* stb. Component looks very good out of the Polo. I probably won't use the KX50 for recording much through the Polaroid. The svid softens the pq too much versus the component on the 2100g thats why I'm testing the direct svid recording tonight. I want to get a comparison of the diff.

Need to confirm the new hardware is kosher so I can leave feedback on eslay.

Sorry to read the 830 doesn't seem to want to cooperate. I'll try to do some editing with the NEC on this disk I'm recording and see how it works out.

DLSDO

02-21-07, 09:42 AM

Give me another day or two to finish up most of the cable organization and I will (won't be totally done until next week with it all). I am running multiple timed recordings to check out D* HD into the Tosharoid. One to the external NEC burner and one to the hdd of the Polo (both via component) and one also to dvd on the KX50 over svid straight from the D* stb. Component looks very good out of the Polo. I probably won't use the KX50 for recording much through the Polaroid. The svid softens the pq too much versus the component on the 2100g thats why I'm testing the direct svid recording tonight. I want to get a comparison of the diff.

Need to confirm the new hardware is kosher so I can leave feedback on eslay.

Sorry to read the 830 doesn't seem to want to cooperate. I'll try to do some editing with the NEC on this disk I'm recording and see how it works out.

Sounds good. Keep us posted

z3scott

02-23-07, 03:22 AM

Making some progress. I will be replacing a couple of the cables when new ones arrive Monday but everything is working now. Audio is running digitally to the pre-pro and via HDMI to the tv (Tosh). I split the analog out of the Polaroid to feed the TV and the Tosh. The audio/video splitter amp came in two days from eslay and is running s-vid and audio out from the D* HD receiver to the Tosharoid (2x) and my current HTPC. The other out from the D* box goes to a modulator for a entire house feed.

Pics:

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7490/tosharoidrearconnectionvu6.th.jpg (http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tosharoidrearconnectionvu6.jpg)
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/8012/tosharoidtotalsystem3mz9.th.jpg (http://img181.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tosharoidtotalsystem3mz9.jpg)

Burnerbum

02-23-07, 10:24 AM

z3scott

02-23-07, 01:01 PM

I have a question about connecting an external hard drive. Instead of using an external power supply, what about routing the power from the Polaroid out to the external drive.
This would eliminate the need for the extra power supply and would also turn the drive on and off with the recorder. Do you think this would be too much stress on the Polaroids supply?
It shouldn't be anymore stressful than using the internal burner. The one thought I have about powering external is it does relieve the Polo's ps which I hope reduces it's chance of failure down the road. This is the main attraction for me. It's easier to replace these external power units than the alternative if the Polaroid's would fail.

With the cost of replacement burners so low it isn't such a big deal to leave it on though. Not sure about a burners life expectancy under these conditions but I'll find out with the Tosharoid. I leave my pc's running 24/7 (I know the burners not) because I'm part of the camp that feels it's more stressful to power supplies, and hdd's to be constantly power cycling from cold starts. I do have them all running on ups units which helps also for those infrequent blips in utility service.

Burnerbum

02-23-07, 02:44 PM

It shouldn't be anymore stressful than using the internal burner. The one thought I have about powering external is it does relieve the Polo's ps which I hope reduces it's chance of failure down the road. This is the main attraction for me. It's easier to replace these external power units than the alternative if the Polaroid's would fail.
The only extra draw on the power supply would be the fan to cool the external drive but i don't know if that really would make a difference.

I found a couple of StarTech enclosures at my local MicroCenter for 15 bucks. http://www.startech.com/Product/ItemDetail.aspx?productid=DRW110CADBK&c=US
They don't seem like the best quality but that was all they had. I also picked up a Bytecc USB2.0 to IDE adapter kit on clearance for 12 bucks, it has a nice little power supply i can use if i decide to use an external one.

Still not sure about these cases, they are all plastic, no alum to help keep the drives cooler.

Thanks for your help.

z3scott

02-23-07, 04:50 PM

The only extra draw on the power supply would be the fan to cool the external drive but i don't know if that really would make a difference.
Good point. I don't think that would push the ps over the top, (at least I hope not :rolleyes: )

I found a couple of StarTech enclosures at my local MicroCenter for 15 bucks. http://www.startech.com/Product/ItemDetail.aspx?productid=DRW110CADBK&c=US
They don't seem like the best quality but that was all they had. I also picked up a Bytecc USB2.0 to IDE adapter kit on clearance for 12 bucks, it has a nice little power supply i can use if i decide to use an external one.

Still not sure about these cases, they are all plastic, no alum to help keep the drives cooler.

Thanks for your help.
These are look the same (http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=GN210-2-BLK&cat=HDD) and are what some of us are using no problems so far... knock on wood. They also have the usb kits pretty cheap too. Unfortunately they don't show any of the hdd racks for the trays right now. I think these racks are fine so far. Good luck.

DLSDO

02-23-07, 05:58 PM

DLSDO

02-23-07, 06:06 PM

[QUOTE]I have a question about connecting an external hard drive. Instead of using an external power supply, what about routing the power from the Polaroid out to the external drive.

I currently power both of my Polaroids internally. I have done it externally also. I am not sold on either approaches necessarily.

DLSDO

02-23-07, 06:12 PM

Good point. I don't think that would push the ps over the top, (at least I hope not :rolleyes: )

These are look the same (http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=GN210-2-BLK&cat=HDD) and are what some of us are using no problems so far... knock on wood. They also have the usb kits pretty cheap too. Unfortunately they don't show any of the hdd racks for the trays right now. I think these racks are fine so far. Good luck.

I use the same HDD enclosure. Genica. Heck.. $5 from Geeks-- great deal! It has the built-in fan. I bet it runs cooler than the stock internal enclosure in the Polaroid. The HDD should be safe.

Burnerbum

02-23-07, 06:45 PM

How have you routed your IDE cable out of the Polo. I would like to do it without modifying the box. Just in case i would ever need warranty service. Since these units don't have any seal on them there really isn't any way to tell they have been open. Just as long as you don't mess too much with the inside wiring locations.

I don't plan on making the burner external. I don't see a need for it. If the internal one would go i would either try replacing it or then go external.

The internal fan on this unit seems useless. It just stirs the hot air around the inside of the box. I've never seen a unit done this way. I was trying to figure out a way to vent this out but without making any changes to the box it doesn't look to promising.

DLSDO

02-23-07, 06:46 PM

I have read many opinions on this forum in different threads related to concerns about eventual HDD failure. For those of us that have the externalized HDD setup this could potentially be an issue.

Its not so simple though. No doubt that DVDs also have a finite lifespan. This as an alternative has its limitations.

Many factors will influence DVD or HDD failure such as usage patterns, media types and HDD models I suppose.

My guess is that the HDDs life is probably longer than average but certainly not infinite. I think that unlike HDD-DVDR units that are constantly filled and emptied the stored HDD approach simply results in less use and probably prolonges its life.

What do you think?

If your worried about eventual HDD failure, what do you plan to do? Burn everything to disc eventually?

I have thought a lot about this and would appreciate any suggestions? I am not sure what I will do long term.

DLSDO

02-23-07, 06:53 PM

[QUOTE]The internal fan on this unit seems useless. It just stirs the hot air around the inside of the box. I've never seen a unit done this way. I was trying to figure out a way to vent this out but without making any changes to the box it doesn't look to promising

I have thought about this also. I might hook up a larger external fan by way of a USB on another one of my components and remove the Polaroids fan.

How have you routed your IDE cable out of the Polo.

Here is a rear pic of one of my units. I have the top propped open about 1cm with soft felt stick pads. Also note internal power supply.

nextoo

02-23-07, 07:05 PM

I'm not worried at all. Not in the least. I'm running eight HDD's with the Polaroid. And they can't all be running at the ame time. Seven of them are sitting on the shelf when one is in use. This strategy even immunizes the HDD's from lightening strikes that could toast an entire entertainment system. They are sitting safely on the shelf powered down. At the rate I use them for playback of archived material they could probably last 500 years when calculating the average failure rate in hours.

I have one HDD set aside for torture tests. It's the ninth one actually and the original 80GB that came with the unit. If I plan on moving content to disc this is the HDD I record to. I park it on this HDD for a while and then burn the content.

The HDD in my STB has been recording 24/7 for years. It has been recording every single minute because it has an active buffer - even when turned off. It runs hotter than a toaster. Still no failures.

DLSDO, I wouldn't worry about it. A HDD sitting on a shelf isn't going to go bad. It is the last thing you need to worry about. What is more important is keeping the rest of the Polaroid running.

z3scott

02-23-07, 07:30 PM

[QUOTE=z3scott]

Very nice! Thanks for the pics.

What sort of HTPC are you running and how do you utilize it? (I know very little about HTPCs)

The power supply to both externalized HDD/burner units is external correct?

Do some burning and editing on the Polaroid and let me know if you get and lock ups or stutter/freezing on playback with the external burner.
The hdd and the burner for both my Polo's are set up exactly the same. I'm using the Mapower case (blue lights) for the Genica hdd racks (thx to nextoo for the Geeks source) if you look closely at the pic of the connections the rear of the hdd enclosure is slightly open. The length of the rack is too long to fit the rear of the case into the slots at the rear but there is enough room for the top to grab the tension flanges of the rear and keep it held in place so I just use the switch on the enclosure to power it. The burner case just has the ide squeaking out the back and I flip the switch to power that as well. I don't use the usb adapter psu's.

@burnerbum I just route the ide over the back edge of the Polo and plop the top back on gently. Route the cables away from the screw locations on the top back edge and put the screws back in. Works fine if you are gentle the ide's take the shape/bend fine and as long as you aren't pulling and moving them around should hold up hunky dory. Top needs no modification to use it like that.

Back to the HTPC q: I build my own systems that one is getting long in the tooth. It's a water cooled Atlon XP running about a 35% overclock but being three years old long past it's day. It has a Hauppage 350 pvr card in it and a Nvidia fanless 6200 doing the video imaging duties. Two drives and a NEC dvd burner. The pvr is mpeg2, a good card but their software is weak especially their driver maintenace. It doesn't depend on the cpu for processing because the card will encode and decode (in hardware) unlike some others which typically hit the processor hard on playback. That's what kept me from needing to upgrade it. I've got ethernet running all over the house and usually have 4-6 pc's up running I can stream movies/replay recordings off various hdd's and my two replays are able to talk with each other and any pc I have DvArchive on. I can schedule shows to record, delete them, transfer to any pc running Dvarchive, stream them from one to another etc. I love hardware hehe. That's why I like the Polo all the tweaking. :D

I recorded one movie last night directly onto -R (Polo) and went in hid some chapters and no issues except playing it back in the KX50. It didn't pick the start properly. It did show the title pic fine just didn't start where the Polo set it up. Haven't tried it yet in any of my dvd players but will. I'll try again tonight on something with some more editing. So far no issues with the either the Sony or the NEC externals.

DLSDO

02-23-07, 08:27 PM

DLSDO

02-23-07, 08:38 PM

[QUOTE]Back to the HTPC q: I build my own systems that one is getting long in the tooth. It's a water cooled Atlon XP running about a 35% overclock but being three years old long past it's day. It has a Hauppage 350 pvr card in it and a Nvidia fanless 6200 doing the video imaging duties. Two drives and a NEC dvd burner. The pvr is mpeg2, a good card but their software is weak especially their driver maintenace. It doesn't depend on the cpu for processing because the card will encode and decode (in hardware) unlike some others which typically hit the processor hard on playback. That's what kept me from needing to upgrade it. I've got ethernet running all over the house and usually have 4-6 pc's up running I can stream movies/replay recordings off various hdd's and my two replays are able to talk with each other and any pc I have DvArchive on. I can schedule shows to record, delete them, transfer to any pc running Dvarchive, stream them from one to another etc. I love hardware hehe. That's why I like the Polo all the tweaking. :D

Quite nice.....especially for a history major ;)